At twenty I left home. At 21 Dorothy declined my marriage proposal. At 23 she accepted. We rented an urban hovel then, at 26, built a small house on a dirt-cheap snowbelt treeless rural lot with a mortgage at 12.5%. Happy.
Change is the only constant, and today society has a whole new patina.
In 1971 – as I tried hard to impress her – 91% of the people my age (early 20s) did not live with their parents or in a multigenerational setting. By 2021, fully 25% were still at home in the US and in Canada the number had jumped to 35%. Over the last twenty years adult children shacking with parents have grown older. Close to half are now aged 25 to 34, according to StatsCan.
It’s a profound shift. The financial implications are deep. Chief among them is the 30+-year drain on parents who may not stop supporting their offspring until well into their own retirement. Making it more consequential are the forgiveable loans made by the Bank of Mom so Junior can buy real estate. That usually comes out of parental home equity or from retirement savings, reducing net worth at the worst possible time – when employment income ends.
Why is this happening?
Lots of reasons, apparently. Kids spend a lot longer in university now, delaying independence and earned income. Mortgages may still be comparatively cheap (we could only dream of a 6% borrowing) but houses cost a bundle. Rents are high. The pandemic messed up everything, created seriously risk-averse young adults and stymied careers. Now there’s angst about a recession, even when we have more jobs openings than bodies to fill them.
Young adults increasingly choose staying home
Mostly, we have a crisis of expectations. The Millennials, for example, have lived their entire sentient lives thus far in a real estate bubble. Ingrained is the belief that owning property is the only route to building wealth, that the stock market’s a casino and debt is inevitable. Millions of young adults refuse to leave home and take on financial risk until they can buy real estate – which they expect their parents to partially finance or co-sign for.
As you know, this breeds generational conflict. Boomers are seen to be the beneficiaries of a time when houses were cheap (even if mortgages rates were triple). It’s why the zealots at Generation Squeeze, for example, what a surtax imposed on everyone owning a house with a million or more – assuming this will help wealth flow from the older to the younger. It all reinforces the cult of real estate which has led us to this point – houses people cannot afford, and the greatest pile of household debt in history, now resetting at a higher cost.
So what is Ottawa doing?
A few days ago the multigenerational home reno tax credit came into being, allowing a 15% write-off of construction costs up to $50,000 to build a suite. Ostensibly this is a for a family member who’s a senior, or disabled, but may quickly morph into something different. One use may be to assist parents in subdividing a home that their child never leaves.
Many cultures foster this kind of arrangement, of course. Parents, grandparents and adult children dwell contentedly in separate spaces or on different floors, sharing expenses and providing mutual support. So is the new federal tax credit an admission all of society should now be moving in that direction? Stay-at-home-4evah?
Yup. Seems so.
Politicians thus far have failed to address the root reasons real estate was financialized, then became out of reach. Building more houses at market price will change zip. The FHSA is intended to boost demand, which makes things worse. Banning wealthy non-resident buyers does nothing to help first-timers. Heaping on land transfer, property, vacancy, speculation, flipping and non-local taxes inevitably raises prices. We have so lost our way when a 2% increase in mortgage rates leads to societal meltdown.
Are we living in a time when our kids are punished and disadvantaged because of when they were born? Are they being denied the fundamental right to real estate?
Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses?
What’s in your basement?
About the picture: “This is my mother’s dog, Coco,” writes Travis. “She lives in Australia. Good-natured, except for when humans are talking on zoom calls and the jealousy sets in.”
.
Have a beast to share with the pack? Send me a picture and some words, to ‘[email protected]’. – Garth
212 comments ↓
The concept of grandparents spending time with their grandchildren might is also dwindling. This lost aspect comes at a cost to society. How the hell did this happen?
Add to that the “must have to survive” iPhone with unlimited data plan, Netflix, Prime Video, $200 sneakers, etc, etc, …… No wonder it’s hard to save money.
Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses? -Garth
YOu got it,man!!
Wusses they are. They are such snowflakes, they need comfort rooms in Universities. Go figure. Just what are we creating?
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
We are in the cycle of wussies.
We kids are living in the world you adults made.
How much does the entry level staff in your company earn? Could you live off that?
It’s interesting to note the extent that parents are going to in an effort to help their kids, at the risk of jeopardizing their retirement quality which took a lifetime of hard word to accumulate. All the while providing a lifestyle to the most privileged generation in human history, their kids. The same kids who in reality, set the crazy real estate prices we are all facing. After all, it is not the seller who determines prices, it is the buyer.
And the most ironic fact in all of this, is that this generation is blaming their Boomer parents for leaving them with a terrible life.
Full disclosure, I’m just outside the Boomer age group, but I feel for them.
Expectations of millennials are through the roof. The concept of a “starter home” is all but gone. Our first home was a mobile, until we could afford a house. That’s doesn’t seem to be an option these days.
Overall though I think higher interest rates kept real estate at bay. Once rates does below 4% is seems things got crazy…
BC creates a property ownership registry:
https://vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/bc-property-ownership-registry-in-full-effect-but-will-take-years-to-mature
Finally, only 20 years too late….
Yep, independence and autonomy. Same in our extended family- all kids are out early, although some live at home through university. However… upon retirement or when independent living gets hard, most oldsters choose to build a place on their kids’ land and stay close, so sort of the same thing but different. Works ok.
“Politicians thus far have failed to address the root reasons real estate was financialized, then became out of reach. ”
And you don’t agree with taxing amateur landlords. This will help to stop the financialization of real estate, because we keep hearing about “buy a property and rent it out” that is why prices are so high. If these were taxed more, more would come on the market and prices would fall.
I don’t envy my basement dwelling peers or the next generation that’s reluctant to leave home. But rents are now such that leaving home nets you a basement suite regardless. I know your mantra of “nobody is entitled to real-estate,” and I’ve come around to agreeing. But are young families not entitled to reasonably priced shelter? How is it that a gainfully employed couple, if they wish to be financially responsible, must continue to live underground well into their thirties?
The Rent Is Too Damn High. I don’t know what the solutions are, but the problem is apparent. The Rent Is Too Damn High. Shelter shouldn’t cost this much, and doesn’t, the world over. How do we fix this?
Sincerely,
someone who desperately wants to live above-ground (and also save for retirement – I know, how greedy of me)
My two cents worth Garth is, it’s the latter, we have birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses who feel entitled to ownership or to begin where Mom and Dad are at today, they are entitled to it in their minds, they ignore or refuse to accept everything called hard work, effort or endurance. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard, their attitude sucks for a fair percentage. Like everything, it’s not everyone, but the numbers are high enough to be scary for the future.
Tough titty for the short sellers so far in 2023, most of them are licking their wounds and losing plenty of sleep, even the big players losing dollars figures into the high billions of dollars. January is headed for its best gains in the past 20 years, unfortunately the fear for markets going forward from what I can see is, we are coming up against a debt ceiling, from all indications pointing to Biden, he is not going to back down and the markets cannot back down from win or lose, come hell or high water, so we may be headed for a slide in the markets, keep a wad of cash, you will get a good buying opportunity shortly, average, average and average.
Elon Musk gained 40 billion last week all while billionaire Gautam Adani lost 31 billion, so much for these fellows, lose or gain, its numbers that you and I cannot even count. In $20 bills one million dollars weight 110 lbs., for one billion it would weigh 110,000 lbs., go figure-multiple that by 50 and you have a serious number of tractor trailer loads of $20 dollar bills going down the highway, or as my dad use to say, it takes 6 inches of $1000 bills to make a million dollars.
I read half a dozen economist predictions today, one thing that I learned was, very few of them ever study the same information or formats, it is like running 180 degrees at times, for the most part, most agree 2023 will be a year of many lessons learned again.
Now that it is a new year, all eyes are turned to what 2023 will bring.
Quote of the day: When one does not know the answer, your guess is as good as mine.
Some entitled and spoon-fed wusses don’t live in basements or own a mortgage/real estate. Pity them!
Houses were cheaper relative to earned income in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, 00s compared to the past 5 years in the GTA and Vancouver. This is undeniable. What we need is a land tax (not building tax) and a reduction in income tax. Encourages efficient houses, gets rid of lawns which contribute to urban sprawl. I get the young people … once you start making some money, the government comes and takes almost 50%. Pretty much impossible to save any kind of down payment.
113 AnonyMusk on 01.30.23 at 11:29 am
#100 Sooner Than You Think on 01.29.23 at 11:34 pm
“Zero sum game, wealth distrubution, a “great reset” if you will.”
——————————————————
Ah there it is, the old zero sum game theory. I guess all the wealth creation of the past 200 years was merely shifting things around, no one created anything.
I wonder who the poor sap is that lost the wealth I have now?
————————
The poor sap is Mother Nature.
So what should be done Garth? Captital Gains tax on primary residence? One would think building more houses would help somewhat but I guess that’s incorrect? Me and wifey are DINKs, I don’t want someone living in my basement till I’m 65…
What’s in my basement?
My 35 yr old disabled daughter and son-in-law.
Reason: ODSP cut off her payments after she got married in 2015. Reason: Her spouse had an RRSP more than $6000. He had this prior to meeting her. The rules then stated that a couple could not have more than that amount at the time( I believe it has been raised slightly since then, but not by much.) He makes about $21 per hour. She is permanently disabled , recognized by the CRA and finding a job is difficult. However, ODSP has their rules, and that is that. So purchasing a home is a dream and even being able to afford rent is not possible. Advice given by the ODSP worker was for them to eliminate the savings of $8,000 . She suggested that they buy a car or buy a house and then ODSP will resume payments . How absurd this is for a young disabled person. If she did not get married, she would have still been getting ODSP payments of approx $1228 per month.
So the reason that they live in my basement is because they cannot afford to live anywhere else. Even advocates for the basic living wage do not consider the predicament of disabled people who are getting ODSP,payments . If calculated per hour, with a 40 hour work week, they would be making about $7.68 per hour.
My daughter had a bleed in her brain at the age of 15 which left her with a number of deficits. She did not deserve to have this happen, but this is life.
Fortunately, we are able to provide them with “ basement accommodation.”
Priceless post. Merci Mr. Turner
What’s in your basement?
——————-
In many oversized and overpriced mansions.
It’s a fat big “Mortgage Helper”.
Now that interest rates have popped, could you please provide an update on the recommended mix of a balanced portfolio, in particular a breakdown of the 40% of safe-stuff.
Previously, I have run with a split of short-term bonds (XSB) and preferred share ETFs. Now that interest rates have increased, what is the new mix for the safe stuff. I’m guessing this is a good time to begin adding medium to longer term bond ETFs. Thanks.
Our son moved out when he was 19 and is now 27 – works hard and shares a house (rough shape) in Victoria with 5 others – this town crushes people like them – I try to encourage them to look around the rest of the country for a more affordable and less woke community
It’s easy to trivialize how difficult someone else has it. Especially from another generation. Kids do face new challenges that their parents and grand parents never had to face. Just like older generations faced challenges their kids don’t fully comprehend. And lamenting the state of youth “today” is a time honored tradition that goes back thousands of years (Socrates was complaining of it in 400 BC and he probably wasn’t even the first). I think we would all do well to be more empathetic and understanding and less critical. And if nothing else it will at least make you a happier person.
Comfort. That is the number one reason the youth are staying home with their parents for longer. Why get your start in a crappy rooming house like I did when I moved out at 17. Even a basement apartment doesn’t compare to Mom and dad’s house which is way nicer and the toilet paper and food in the fridge just magically appears.
Here are the StatCan Generational numbers from 2022 Q1 to Q3, Net Worth losses $ x 1,000,000 & %:
Pre-1946 = -326,618, -24.7&
Baby boom = -601,506, -9.1%
Generation X = -236,507, -3.9%
Millennials = -99,512, -4.1%
I have been watching these numbers over the years and it is clear to me, even with high rates/inflation at present, that there has been a LARGE generational wealth transfer going on, old —> young. And I don’t mean from death either.
From the above %’s it ought to be obvious whom the net beneficiaries are.
Case in point, Real Estate assets:
Pre-1946 = $0.5 Trillion
Baby boom = $2.72 Trillion
Generation X = $3.55 Trillion
Millennials = $2.0 Trillion
The question is, where did the Mills & esp. GenX come up with that kind of money?
Pre-1946, Baby boom —> GenX, Millennials
If you can’t see the cash drain, you never will.
DELETED
I don’t think the kids are wusses this generation garth, they do have a tougher economic environment to deal with. Just compare wages vs rent & groceries, it’s easy to calculate. Sure couches and microwaves are cheaper, but rent isn’t.
Dealing with it would be much easier though if they abandoned the Canadian National religion. (House worship)
We have three children and we made sure they had
university degrees we also provided a car for them no sense waiting at the bus stop when they could be
studying. They did not have student loans and they are very successful because they WORK. We are very proud of their achievements. They have been out of the house since graduating from university. They were basically straight A students citizenship awards and athletic awards one was a President Entrance Scholarship winner. If the goal is clear the price is CHEAP.
Failure to Launch!
Used to be it was only senior men experiencing failure to launch. Now it’s young adults. Sad.
You forgot conveniently central ‘bankers’ with their monetary policies of easy money – the main reason for the high house prices and the inflation/rents and the current housing unaffordability and misery.
Here Garth, add this to the list of reasons kids aren’t leaving home. They’re not paid enough to.
https://imgur.com/a/OLVnSDy
Yogism 39: “The generation of new housing arrangements is something to build upon”.
Great Mom versus Great Mother
The great Mom allows her young adult kids to stay home and keeps on doing their cooking and laundry. Rent free too, usually.
The great Mother knows she has to nudge them out of the nest. She knows that’s best for them in the end. She’ll even help with a down payment if she can, but getting them to fly (largely) on their own is paramount.
A balanced parent is equal parts Mom & Mother or Dad & Father. You need to be both in your child’s life. Well I suppose the proportions change as they age. The point is to balance both roles.
I’ve been renting for just over 13 years. While it’s allowed me to create a nice nest-egg of savings, I can only imagine how much higher my net worth would be if I’d levered myself to the gills and paid a mortgage every month, instead of a landlord.
Even though I’m getting 4 walls and a roof out of the deal, I’ve still spent over a decade, and likely over 100,000 either paying off someone else’s mortgage, or lining the pockets of a landlord.
Rents are high alright… I would start classifying them as unattainable in Ontario… especially for anyone younger trying to live on their own, I’m not far off from saying it would be nearly impossible to do… Don’t judge me please, but I’m single, nearing middle age and about 70% of my income goes to rent, and I am “getting a good deal” apparently compared to my neighbours…. Rent has almost doubled here in the last 5 years I would say.
Literally everyone I’ve talked to about this is spending less on discretionary items and even necessary items, this is going to show in the coming data.
Maybe the governments’ and central banks of the last 15 years shouldn’t of goosed RE with ultra low rates and policies encouraging massive debt. A few measly rate hikes and public is freaking out. Its just common sense, kids had to choose either take out life altering debt or stay at home, clearly many chose home. The ones that chose home probably saved themselves from the massive loss about to be felt by every home owner in this country.
First!
It seems that some parents are enabling the thinking that Mills are entitled to that help.
When I was young, the rule was that I could live at home rent free while I was going to school. 6 months after getting out of school, I had to pay rent. That said, it was “token” rent… but enough to teach responsibility.
I am 50 and my hubby is 51. We both did professional university degrees in the 1990’s. I received some financial assistance for school from my middle-class parents (when tuitions were still low), and managed the rest with scholarships and OSAP. Hubby did it all on his own with OSAP and scholarships. Once school ended, no more familial financial assistance, nor did we expect it. We both were “out of the nest” in our early 20s and married in our later 20s. Rented for several years before buying a house in the GTA in the early 2000’s. Upsized to a costlier house 12 years later, realized we didn’t really want/need it, and have recently downsized to a condo. A combination of hard work, school smarts, life decisions, overall frugality and luck means we are now in the 1%. We never felt that we “deserved” to buy a house and would have rented for longer if we couldn’t afford it. Can’t imagine living with my parents into my 30s, or taking money from them to help buy a house. I guess times are different now…or maybe it’s just a shift in expectations.
These days it seems parents are less willing to show “tough love”. Oh, you don’t want to go to school, that’s OK. You don’t want to cook or clean your room, no problem.
It’s a two way street. If parents want their house to themselves, they’re going to have to push their kids for once and admit that in the real world not everyone gets a ribbon. You actually have to earn it. I know. Shocking.
..”According to the Alberta Energy Regulator, there are more than 83,000 inactive oil and gas wells in the province currently, and close to 90,000 more that have been sealed and taken out of service, but not yet fully remediated.
A report released last year by the Parliamentary Budget Officer estimated that the cost of orphan well clean-up in Canada will reach $1.1 billion by 2025.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-vulcan-county-orphan-wells-jason-schneider-1.6730467
===========================
…”The true owner of my local newspaper is Chatham Asset Management, a hedge fund in New Jersey.
The second-largest shareholder, Allianz Global Investment, has offices from Shanghai to Frankfurt. Its main U.S. fund was shut down over securities fraud and ordered to pay back billions to bilked investors.
The third-largest investor, Leon G. Cooperman, survived insider trading allegations by taking the Fifth Amendment in court and handing a $5-million settlement to the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/opinion-patricia-elliott-newspapers-1.6727415
The German financial services conglomerate Allianz agreed to pay US$6 billion to settle with the U.S. banking authority accusations of fraud within its U.S. asset management unit in connection with the $11 billion collapse of the conglomerate’s Structured Alpha funds.May 23, 2022
======
convoy anniversary? they should pay for the last party.
where are all those supporters from last year ?
..” As of Sunday afternoon, police and Bylaw Services officers had issued 192 parking tickets for violating the Special Event No-Stopping Zone restrictions and 67 Provincial Offences Notices, while 23 vehicles had been towed from downtown streets.Parliamentary Protective Service officers arrested two people for trespassing on Parliament Hill Saturday afternoon.
protests cost the city about $7 million and cost Ottawa police $55 million, as demonstrators opposed to COVID-19 mandates and the federal government blockaded downtown streets.One year after the self-styled “Freedom Convoy” arrived in Ottawa, the city says only about half the value of the tickets handed out during the protests has been paid.
Between Jan. 28 and Feb. 18, 2022, officials issued 3,812 parking tickets and 318 provincial offence notices for illegal parking, including on private property and in no-parking zones.
Those fines totalled $320,545 — and just over $141,000 of that is still outstanding.
The Intercept obtained the hacked donor data of GiveSendGo,
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/17/freedom-convoy-givesendgo-canada-oath-keepers-funding/
Far-Right Groups Are Funding Canada’s “Freedom Convoy”
The Intercept
https://theintercept.com › 2022/02/17 › freedom-conv…
https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/Distributed_Denial_of_Secrets
Are we living in a time when our kids are punished and disadvantaged because of when they were born? Are they being denied the fundamental right to real estate?
Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses?
What’s in your basement?
================================
IMHO…the masses are subtely herded by TPTB into various options.
This “herding” may waiver between RE, the stock market …and/or both concurrently.
Further to this….
….. IMHO BitCoin and other crypto currencies were the joker in the deck…cyber economic terrorism…creating confusion and uncertainty…again to herd the sheeple.
My youngest kid rumbled about leaving the city and moving back into our Canmore house about 13 years ago. To our relief the housing market was fairly busy and our newly listed house sold fast.
End of that problem…(kid stayed in the city and has experienced success but more importantly developed a strong attitude of independence.)
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Ignore for the moment the extreme costs of purchasing real estate for the next generation. In your time (say late 70s–1985), what percentage of your income as a young incoming-earning adult would be sucked up by even renting a small one-bedroom apartment in Toronto or Vancouver? Answer: not at all prohibitive and I was easily able to rent a studio while working part time (25 hours per week) and going to UBC. Not a care in the world, and it was straightforward.
Now? No hope at all in Toronto, Vancouver, Victoria, Kelowna etc… (only major city that is doable is Montreal). Average price for a crappy 1 bedroom or studio is WELL OVER 2K per month and would take up a much larger fraction of any income brought in that it would have before. Perhaps if you lived deep in Surrey or Maple Ridge it could be a bit cheaper, but then the commute would be a real pain. Not at all straightforward.
Kids need to launch for sure, but if they can live in their parents basement suite while going to U and for a few years afterwards (so as to not incur too much additional debt) it is a good option in these times for getting a decent start and saving some $$. This is precisely what we are going to do.
Frankly, I am a late boomer, but I really have a hard time listening to the nonsense on how every generation has its challenges, nothing really has changed, it is the same for every group etc…. because this is frankly complete BS. However, there is no point in whining about the challenges, but to accept that they are real is a good start and something that older people should try to understand. If I was trying to make a go of it in this economy, and purchase my first house, it would have been much more challenging than I found it around 2000
as there was not a nickel to be gifted down.
That being said, we do not need Paul Kershaw and his group of nutbars in Generation Squeeze to be anywhere near a position where they would have power to decide anything. I feel the same about Paul as I did about the climate warriors who used to have considerable power on Vancouver city council. They can all go take a hike and leave us alone.
#4 Inequity on 01.30.23 at 3:07 pm
It seems that some parents are enabling the thinking that Mills are entitled to that help.
When I was young, the rule was that I could live at home rent free while I was going to school. 6 months after getting out of school, I had to pay rent. That said, it was “token” rent… but enough to teach responsibility
______________
Alright. And I suppose you walked 3 miles each way, to and from school, in the middle of the winter. You lived in a different era compared to today and you did what was necessary or appropriate for that generation. It’s a different ball of yarn these days, so enough with the comparisons like this. Apples and mangoes!
Parents can choose to do as they please and make their own rules. It’s their house and their children. I’m pretty certain that living with their parents wasn’t their first choice.
1980 – very difficult to find a job / price of a home was cheap but interest rates were like you say – above 10%. Probably not a great deal of family wealth to help out with a down payment.
2023 – very easy to find a job / price of a home (single family dwelling / condo) is expensive but rates are free compared to 1980. Many families have acquired a great deal of wealth to help a child with a down payment.
So both generations have had challenges.
Today you better have family wealth to help or you need 2 police officer / nurse / school teacher / heavy duty mechanic salaries.
I left the family home for good at the age of 18. I couldn’t get out fast enough. This is not to say I had bad parents. They were excellent. They would have let me stay and provide for me if a long list of conditions were met. For example: “Your girlfriend will not be sleeping over”.
My friends and I found low wage entry level jobs. We split rent five ways for cramped, uncomfortable dumps, rented from dink landlords, and ate poor quality diets. Naturally, some us didn’t get along and we fought over things. But we were fiercely independent and it was simply the price of freedom.
PS: I’m just sayin’… I realize no one cares.
Hey, anyone see this article a few days ago?
It fits in precisely with what is being discussed here.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/26/its-the-wild-west-out-there-how-the-soaring-cost-of-rent-is-hitting-home-for-seniors.html
It’s highly controversial and you won’t be able to resist the temptation to add your comments.
Oh oh, Gartho. Now you’ve done it… I don’t envy you the comments today.
I’ll say this: I’m a Xennial. Officials a Millenial, but so close to the border with the Xs I can still close my eyes and hear Billy Idol. And for anyone trying to start a family, buy a house, and settle down, it’s way harder today than when I came of age. The jobs are more gig, house prices crazy unless you want to move away to the prairies (highly advisable btw if you can), and life in general more expensive today vs average incomes. My grandfather raised three kids on one income as a taxi driver, semi-retired at 55 and snowbirded until health gave out, and him and grandma always had decent vehicles in the driveway. Try that nowadays. My dad was a tradesman, raised me and my siblings on one income, had crap vehicles and no money but we always seemed to have enough. My siblings, one is a DINK who can’t afford kids, the other has two but lives in near poverty as they struggle month to month. I got lucky, life is grand, but I’m the exception in my peer group outside of the 5-percenters.
I’ve said it here before: there’s only a few viable moves left here in canada. One is to AB/SK, preferably AB due to jobs being slightly better. The other is to the east coast if you can work remote for a company HQd elsewhere. But it involves ditching friends and family for those not from those places, and if the goal is to have kids and spend time with your family, you’re SOL.
That said: Get into trades people. The tech dream we were all sold is dead imho. Learn to plumb, pull wires or wrenches, place concrete. You can work an unlimited number of hours and make a helluva good living, and probably afford a place in BC or Ontario.
Hi Garth, thanks again.
We supported our two kids through 4 years each of uni, one engineering, one ind design. Tuition and living expenses (approx 200k). After that they were on their own. They were ok with that. They were brought up to be independent, and worked through high school and a bit in uni years.
We are 65 and have been empty nesters for 18 years.
They have figured it out and are successful. One owner, one renter. They are also ok with inheriting squat, as we are going to spend all that is left
PS- I’ve had a job since I was 12 (not a typo), never taken a dime from anyone since I left home in high school to take a night job in the city, so I know what work is. And it’s not as simple these days to just bootstrap it. It’s possible- but far more difficult for most. I don’t envy the next gen. I could’ve raised a family on what I was making at 17 yo, in that time. Don’t know to many 17yo now that could say the same.
#28 You forgot conveniently central ‘bankers’ with their monetary policies of easy money – the main reason for the high …
…asset prices (both the housing market AND the stock market).
Everything old is new again. When I was a child, multi-generational households were the norm. My father’s parents & his youngest brother lived with us; my grandmother took care of the house & the children while my parents were at work. Some immigrant cultures dictated that children only left home upon marriage & even that wasn’t a given. The usual deal was that a child would continue to live at home, with parents being taken care of once they were too old to take care of themselves. Then upon their demise, said child would inherit the family home. Rinse, repeat.
The main difference between then & now is that a lot of those adult ‘children’ are not necessarily contributing to household expenses or chores. As for taking care of Mom or Dad, perish the thought. That is what old age facilities are for & the idea that the family abode be sold to cover the cost is seen as unfair, in that said child or children will not receive the inheritance they feel they deserve.
A crisis of expectations eh?
I agree but in not the sense you might think. The expectations of under 35 folks are increasingly apathetic, not aspirational. It’s the absence of expectations that is the problem.
And who can blame them? The median Canadian income is laughably inadequate Vs. the cost of living in where most of the Canadian population lives – south BC, Golden Horseshoe, and the Ottawa and Montreal metro areas. A decent place to rent in a third rate Ontario suburb like Cambridge, Stony Creek, etc. is absurd.
What loving parent would want that for their adult child! (I’m half joking… it could be much worse obviously but it doesn’t scream prosperity either).
#10 zxcvbnm on 01.30.23 at 1:58 pm
….The Rent Is Too Damn High. I don’t know what the solutions are, but the problem is apparent. …
*************
Solution is very simple.
№1. Total rent control in whole Canada – like in Toronto we have guideline for rent increase.
№2. I would call this level 2 rent control.
What does it mean?
Prohibition of arbitrary increase in rent after the apartment has been vacated. The rent can be increased in the same way as in case # 1. If improvements have been made for a new tenant – the rent can be increased above guideline after the application is submitted, but not by more than 5% and such an increase in the rent can be made once every 5 years. This will eliminate fraud when a specially hired tenant will live for 3 months and then vacate the housing. The second and third and fourth and so on will do the same. and the rent for the year will grow again by 50%.
Problem is that housing mafia exist and never ever will be done with current politicians .
Landlords are not charities. More rent control = zero vacancy rate. – Garth
I haven’t heard much lately from the people who were posting about Elon having to sell some toasters and coffee machines at Twitter HQ in order to pay some big debts or something.
Did the $29B gain in value over a few weeks of his TSLA shares help?
I sure hope he doesn’t have to go back to yard sales to survive going broke. I was worried for a while there.
allegedly conspired to recruit foreign workers for U.S. work visas while concealing the workers’ true job titles and responsibilities.
Multiple dental practice owners and co-conspirators were charged in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania for allegedly engaging in a multifaceted racketeering conspiracy through a multi-state network of dental practices and related dental businesses.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/dental-practice-owners-charged-fraud-and-rico-conspiracy
Friday, January 20, 2023
DePuy Synthes, Inc. Agrees to Pay $9.75 Million to Settle Allegations Concerning Kickbacks Paid to Massachusetts Orthopedic Surgeon
Medical device manufacturer DePuy Synthes, Inc. (DePuy), a subsidiary of Johnson & Johnson, has agreed to pay $9.75 million to resolve allegations it violated the False Claims Act by paying kickbacks to an orthopedic surgeon based in Massachusetts to induce his use of DePuy products.
The settlement announced today resolves allegations that DePuy violated the Anti-Kickback Statute (AKS) and caused the submission of false or fraudulent claims to Medicare by paying the orthopedic surgeon kickbacks in the form of free spinal implants and tools for use in surgeries that the surgeon performed overseas to induce that surgeon to use DePuy products in surgeries performed in the United States. As part of the settlement, DePuy has admitted that from at least July 2013 through February 2018, DePuy, acting through certain former sales representatives, gave the Massachusetts surgeon thousands of dollars’ worth of free DePuy implants and instruments, including cages, rods, screws, plates, and surgical instrumentation, that the surgeon used to perform surgeries overseas for patients who were not federal health care beneficiaries. Of the $9.75 million to be paid by DePuy, approximately $7.23 million will be returned to the federal government, and approximately $2.52 million will be returned to Massachusetts, which jointly funded claims for surgeries involving DePuy devices that were submitted to the Massachusetts Medicaid program.
=============
Racketeering Conspiracy: (20 years)
Conspiracy to Commit Visa Fraud: (5 years)
Visa Fraud: (10 years)
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice: (5 years)
Conspiracy to Commit Health Care Fraud: (10 years)
Health Care Fraud: (120 years)
Money Laundering Conspiracy: (20 years)
Money Laundering: (210 years)
Conspiracy to Defraud the United States Treasury: (5 years)
Wire Fraud: (20 years)
Conspiracy To Distribute an Adulterated and Misbranded Medical Device in Interstate Commerce: (5 years)
“Landlords are not charities. More rent control = zero vacancy rate. – Garth”
Gath, you yourself have said multiple times that people in Canada have a right to shelter, but not a right to a single family home.
But seeing you come down against rent control as well makes me wonder what a “right to shelter” in Canada looks like to you.
Read better. It was about degree, not absolutes. – Garth
Millennials may be entitled and whiny, but the average income from 1971 adjusted for inflation today would be ~$100,000 a year. Not many millennials make that today.
Houses have become financialized for sure, but I think Garth, you’re ignoring that workers today simply have a much lower share of the wages than they did when you were starting off.
So more people live in multi-generational households. Common 100 years ago (when we were poorer), and also in other parts of the world (where people are poorer).
If real estate valuations were to correct to 2008 – 2009 levels one could envision prosperous future for our society.
Alternatively and most likely misallocations of capital will continue, our dependence on real estate will grow and Canadians walking the tight rope above the financial abyss will continue. Because of the enslavement to the house (bank and mortgage) people develop Stockholm syndrome and start praising the captors and situation that they are in. Thus it is better to stay living with your own parents until you can get your own golden cage that you are going to be paying to the bank for the rest of your life. After all the world is such a bad place and why would you risk it. The bosom of the “devouring mother” of our society will keep you safe. Just take the plunge buy the property already and get re plugged into the Matrix.
You can feel smug and successful in the same time……
Personally I have left my home 29 years ago and left behind couple hundred years of family history. Graveyards with family name headstones go back at least that far.
I have never regretted the move regardless of the fact that all of my family is still behind (I came alone and met my wife here, also 29 years ago).
I am and will continue to be eternally grateful for country of Canada, Canadians that I have pleasure of meeting and Canadian society in general for welcoming me and providing the possibilities and stability for my family to thrive. Lately it is quite hard to understand the path that we are on. I am not able to see convincing positive arguments in some of the government policies put forward. Rather they seem to be reactionary and short sighted.
It was not like this even just 10 short years ago…..
https://financialpost.com/news/economy/federal-spending-makes-inflation-fight-harder
If you don’t want to grow up and be adults instead just camping out in our basement it looks like you found the secret of life. Sponge & Profit on every cheap American house you buy. Mom will cook your meals and do your laundry. Ka-ching!! – ah the easy life while everyone else struggles – for you just count the green backs coming every 30 days on rent day.
https://oldhousesunder50k.com/cheap-ish-circa-1921-georgia-bungalow-110k/?fbclid=IwAR3G2lQybQUgw-uVbhH-A4OORqxN3r0h2gZdPIUYoMCXNI8lGZi4_EuOUdk
Garth …. Landlords are not charities. More rent control = zero vacancy rate. – Garth
**********
1. I agree with “Landlords are not charities. ” But I will add my own wording, which you are shy about – they are robbers! These are the people who, with the connivance of corrupt politicians, are destroying the Canadian economy. Please tell me what is the reason for the 2-fold increase in rent over 5 years. What was done in the apartment for the new tenant t akogo to increase the rent by 2 times or even more? In 99% of cases, the walls are whitewashed, and then not always. Why then is the rent increased by 2 times? And there is no end in sight. Money that goes to rent does not stimulate economics. People have almost nothing left except for food.
2. ….More rent control = zero vacancy rate. What proof do you have?’ Does Toronto have a zero vacancy rate?
ooooo, tricky one. Where I agree with you about the spoon-fed wusses, to me, its the desire to match or exceed the lifestyle of the people who reared us that is leading to this ‘Consumer Dilemma’ we are seeing. ‘I’m such a failure ’cause I don’t have a house and a tesla’
**Side note, I wonder how many MHP’s are directly connected with how duped we are?**
Imagine, like other cultures, need for independence wasn’t necessary. Multi-generational homes. community. Helping. Adding. Knowing what your kids and parents are doing through many stages of their lives. Seeing your kids in…helping your parents out. Isn’t this the life style we should be aspiring to? Instead of forgetting our parents in long term care…waiting for our inheritance? Teaching our kids exactly how we would like to be treated? How depressing is that?
Keep your houses, kiddoes. Build community with friends and fam. Connection over tesla’s…try something new…use imagination (google it)….
Your welcome!
Og
So true! Pity the poor saps (I am one) that are trying to get ahead in a bent/broken system.
——————
#12 Prince Polo on 01.30.23 at 2:06 pm
Some entitled and spoon-fed wusses don’t live in basements or own a mortgage/real estate. Pity them
#9 Dave on 01.30.23 at 1:57 pm
“Politicians thus far have failed to address the root reasons real estate was financialized, then became out of reach. ”
And you don’t agree with taxing amateur landlords. This will help to stop the financialization of real estate, because we keep hearing about “buy a property and rent it out” that is why prices are so high. If these were taxed more, more would come on the market and prices would fall.
__________________________________
Slapping more taxes is not the answer, nor will it help in any way. Government should keep their greedy rat claws out of it, they’ll just screw it up like they do everything else.
Normalize interest rates in the 7-8% range and keep them there. Then watch RE retreat….
Seems like this government wants to bring the slumlife to Canada, with several families living in a 500 sqft shoebox and paying thousands of dollars in rent to the landed gentry.
Benefits the asset-owning class.
Have you considered cancelling your Disney subscription?
Provide one single instance of multiple families living in a 500-foot condo. Or shut up. – Garth
I wonder how the above numbers and graph correlate with the oft discussed decline in the marriage rate, especially among younger adults in the 20-30 year old range?
I know from personal experience (divorce) that it costs a lot more money to support 2 adults living in 2 houses with 2 kids than it does to support 2 adults living in 1 house with 2 kids. I assume the same would be true without kids.
Also, the trend towards adults living alone would have the affect of dramatically increasing demand for housing. Taken to the extreme, if everyone were single and lived alone, we’d need twice as many units (although perhaps smaller) than if everyone was married or otherwise cohabitated. Twice as many is a lot. But even 10% of twice as many is a lot at the margin. The margin can be hugely affected by small numbers.
Maybe the ancients who wrote what we consider “old religious texts” knew something we are yet to figure out: that some living arrangements are untenable when pervasive. You can’t have all the adults living in their own hut because there aren’t enough people to build all the huts and do the hunting, farming and child-rearing. Thus, marriage was considered the norm for society. Not because being single is “evil” per se, but because if everyone does it, it is unsustainable. Society can’t build that many dwellings. Or afford to raise children that way, which in old times was not optional.
—————————–
What we consider “old religious texts” were much more than that to the people who wrote them. Instead, they were largely an attempt to codify generations worth of hard won wisdom and social norms. You can think of them more as yes religion, but also law, psychology, and practical life guidance that was appropriate to the time. And even some science in so far as they understood it at the time. We’ve thrown all of that out, so now our kids are left to find their own way in life from scratch, with no reference to fall back on when they have no idea what to do.
The problem with just “living as you chose” is that while it sounds all fine in theory, every choice has a consequence. Some of those consequences aren’t easy to predict and don’t manifest themselves for years. Or you can think of it as each choice having two sets of consequences, one short term and one long term. Thus, skiving off work today to go skiing seems like a swarmy idea today but kind of sucks tomorrow when you get fired. Or a new car today is always fun but adding 5 years to your retirement date is not. That sort of thing.
These Gen Z and Millenial kiddos are just way too lazy and don’t appreciate how easy they have had it compared to us.
We’re not here to change their diapers anymore. Grow up. A little bit of tough times will help them, for sure.
I just finished watching a video of Jordan Peterson’s tribulations with the University of Toronto. He makes a good argument that Justin Trudeau has weaponized the universities to discredit any ideas or even tweets by professors that are not totally woke. This reinforces the meme that Canadian students are purposely cultivated to be “Snow Flakes”. Jordan Peterson’s You Tube videos are a breath of fresh air, IMHO.
https://youtu.be/gQYCJIDHGnQ
If one’s goal was to own real estate, one could. Here’s a detached for 280K.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/25218260/335-gloucester-street-cornwall-centre-town
But kids don’t want a starter home in Cornwall. They want the lifestyle their parents have after sacrificing for decades. If it’s truly a priority, they can make it happen.
Step 1: Chose a career that pays well (actually do research on it)
Step 2: Go to college or learn online for cheap. Save.
Step 3: Live at home until you graduate with a job. Save.
Step 4: Rent a room and move up in your career. Save more. Learn how to invest.
Step 5: Keep your expectations in check. Just like many boomers, they moved out of the city to afford a cheaper house. They held multiple jobs until their career paid more.
Sacrifice for what you want. If you’re getting lattes and going on vacations twice a year with your Art History degree, you’re not going to achieve much in life.
Coldplay tickets at $400 a seat in Vancouver (for a decent one) are being snapped up. So much so that they had to add a second show. Are people crazy? $800 for a concert? No, this economy is still red hot and clearly attempts to slow it down haven’t kicked in yet.
Anyone trying to build a house on a vacant rural lot is going to need at least $500k these days, I reckon. That’s if they can get a cheap lot, have simple tastes, can find a contractor and are willing to put in some sweat.
What did yours cost to build, Garth? Any idea what the most recent sale price for your little rural home was?
#26
Mr. Rogers is that you?
Hi Garth et al: I have noticed multiple comments calling an entire generation spoon fed. I should point out the average Canadian family income in 1971 is listed as $43 437 CAD as per the CCSD.CA website. A Toronto star article shows the average home in 1971 at $30 426. So a spoon fed wussy if they had almost 130% of the average cost of a house the average household income would be around $860 700 annually with a $662 103 average cost of a house. Now the average household income is currently $78 000 and eleven times lower that what it should have be, for an equitable comment about spoon fed. I’m quite sure a household income of even over 200k aren’t asking Bank of Mom (BOM) for money. Lets not get into the weeds and mention the dual income household necessity currently, child care ect.ect. Wages have been suppressed over the last 60 years. We even hear complaints about Wage inflation, if commenters want to stop spoon feeding a generation of people, don’t be fooled by a governments or anyone wanting to suppress the wages, and let the market determine them.
You forgot the 12.5% mortgage rate. Convenient. An as others are pointing out, the average family income was less than $11,000. You have quoted, wrongly, in inflation-adjusted dollars. The average Toronto house in the early 70s sold for $57,800. Five times income – with a 12% home loan. – Garth
And why the hell not stay in their parents house and contribute? My father grew up with 5 siblings, 2 parents, and a dog. All inside a tiny 3 bedroom house with 1 bath. He currently lives in a 5 bedroom house, 3 car garage, no pets…alone. I’d happily move back in, fortunately I do not need to. The comment section here says a lot; it says that most of the readers can’t handle change and have contempt for anyone born after them. 1971 was a long time ago. Get over it.
Multi-generation dwellings is pretty much the norm everywhere in the world. We bucked that norm in North America because we weren’t destroyed in WWII like everyone else and that made us comparatively fantastically wealthy, but this is a return to the norm (and that is probably a good thing considering everyone’s mental health seems to be crashing from lack of family support).
BooHoo.
I left home at 19 in 1973. I had worked full time for 18 months between high school and college, to save for college. I couldn’t afford university.
I found a rooming house and shared a big bedroom with another. We couldn’t use the telephone, cook in the house, we couldn’t smoke in the house, we couldn’t drink in the house and we couldn’t have the opposite sex in the house. I had no cell, no car, no cable tv, just bread and meat slices, or cereal. Fun was a few $ for draught beer on Saturday night.
Three years later and part time jobs along the way, I graduate with $40 to my name.
After graduation, I had to stay in the rooming house for 2 months to save for an apartment. Then I get the apartment and I had no furniture.
It was what is called a life experience. You get tough and figure things out.
Yeah, us boomers had it so easy. We breezed thru.
I strongly support 3 years of mandatory military service starting at 18.
Some youths have already been taught properly by their parents, others still need to learn. The military will do it and the country will benefit. Free room and board. Enforced maturity.
Win-win.
Spouse and I own our SFH free and clear…
Both my parents passed away…just spouse’s Mom left….she lives in a condo built in 1986 and bought in 2006.
Our Daughter and her partner live in an apartment he bought…we told her if they split up don’t try and gouge him under “common- law “….you take out what you put in.
Our sons bought a condo….without any assistance.
So far so good.
My spouse wants to downsize….but her mother’s condo situation makes me VERY leery of strata…endless check $$$ writing situation for various fees and levy’s etc. aka a money $$$ pit. (I think I’d blow a gasket having to deal with strata politics….ugghhh)
Our SFH has appreciated 5X’s in value since we bought
in 1996.
If SHTF…our home would be open and available to family ….strata for us is a last resort.
Just my thoughts and experiences…
I don’t think we will reach 2% inflation by year end. Gas has gone up the last month, I have been looking for townhouses to rent in the GTA, the rent prices from Mid December last year until now have gone up by an extra $500 per month. The people buying real estate now thinking there will be a pivot, will be in for a surprise soon.
@ #3 Don
Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses? -Garth
YOu got it,man!!
Wusses they are. They are such snowflakes, they need comfort rooms in Universities. Go figure. Just what are we creating?
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
We are in the cycle of wussies.
Millennial here. Great career, plus my own side business. Save like crazy, invest and more man than you could ever be. I refuse to give up and maybe “one day” I’ll be able to afford some dirt. Live in Lower Mainland.
I’m sorry, remind me of the point you were trying to make again????
Oh that’s right, you lived in the most profitable times in history. Walked uphill both ways to school. I don’t want to hear it.
Get some perspective
“It was about degree, not absolutes. – Garth”
Can you please elaborate?
When I hear “right to shelter”, that sounds pretty absolute to me.
Just start offing billionaires until the government starts acting responsibly again.
Average Income 1971
#73 Dan on 01.30.23 at 4:39 pm
Hi Garth et al: I have noticed multiple comments calling an entire generation spoon fed. I should point out the average Canadian family income in 1971 is listed as $43 437 CAD as per the CCSD.CA website.
************************************
That $43, 437 figure is obviously in today’s dollars, 1971 dollars adjusted for inflation.
Actual average family income in 1971 would be closer to $10,000. I’d bet money it was under $15,000. (Ponzie?)
Lining the pocks of a landlord
#32 Rook on 01.30.23 at 3:03 pm
I’ve been renting for just over 13 years. While it’s allowed me to create a nice nest-egg of savings, I can only imagine how much higher my net worth would be if I’d levered myself to the gills and paid a mortgage every month, instead of a landlord.
Even though I’m getting 4 walls and a roof out of the deal, I’ve still spent over a decade, and likely over 100,000 either paying off someone else’s mortgage, or lining the pockets of a landlord.
******************************
“lining the pockets” is a pejorative term and flags anyone using it as someone who has never owned a business and has little understanding of business n
and how business people earn profits.
Is your employer similarly “lining your pockets”?
Rents too high?
Supply and Demand have to be the key reason.
If supply is too low, creating excess profits then why aren’t enterprising businesses and people building more supply until the excess profit dries up?
What role does NIMBY and other restrictions play.
How much of the building costs and the rent are going to government in various fees at the time of building and also property taxes?
Sufficient competition will move rents to a fair level. What is stopping the competition?
#76 knota everydayblogger on 01.30.23 at 4:55 pm
BooHoo.
I left home at 19 in 1973. I had worked full time for 18 months between high school and college, to save for college. I couldn’t afford university.
I found a rooming house and shared a big bedroom with another. We couldn’t use the telephone, cook in the house, we couldn’t smoke in the house, we couldn’t drink in the house and we couldn’t have the opposite sex in the house. I had no cell, no car, no cable tv, just bread and meat slices, or cereal. Fun was a few $ for draught beer on Saturday night.
Three years later and part time jobs along the way, I graduate with $40 to my name.
After graduation, I had to stay in the rooming house for 2 months to save for an apartment. Then I get the apartment and I had no furniture.
It was what is called a life experience. You get tough and figure things out.
Yeah, us boomers had it so easy. We breezed thru.
_______________________________________
LOL! Am laughing ’cause I’ve been down that road. Did you ever have to eat a can of cat food? dog food? Quite tasty on toast.
#80 BK on 01.30.23 at 5:06 pm
@ #3 Don
Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses? -Garth
YOu got it,man!!
===========================
Old school here..
Back in the day….those of us that were “bullied” in school had a judgement call….
(i)eternal capitulation
or
(ii)cost effective attitude adjustment.
Unfortunately..
…..Big Brother Gov’t has effectively and in essence fostered and nurtured the “coddled-victim” class with its various rules…regulations and policies ….and it will only get worse.
In other words…
…..I don’t necessarily assign any/all blame to the herded sheeple…sometimes THE hardest thing beyond “learning” is UNlearning.
“Are we living in a time when our kids are punished and disadvantaged because of when they were born? Are they being denied the fundamental right to real estate?
Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses?”
Let’s not blame the victim here. It isn’t the young’uns that created this housing affordability mess. Every time you read an article complaining about how young people aren’t doing this, that and the other thing that their parents used to do, remember the prices they’re paying for bare necessities of living.
I think most young people still living at home would very much prefer not to be. But when the alternative is renting 10 to a basement or – for the few that can qualify for it without parental support – taking on $500K and up in a mortgage to be house poor until they drop dead, living at home looks like the best of a poor set of options. Not everyone can move to Edmonton to start their careers – so many of the jobs are only in the Toronto and Vancouver areas.
If we valued independence and initiative in this country, we wouldn’t have put up so many roadblocks to their achievement. Apparently this is the way we want things to be, which does not bode well for the future.
#61 ‘Vlad’ – so if RE is out of reach due to cost for the majority of Canadians, the solution to housing is more rental units. But if as you claim LL’s are robbers, then renting isn’t the solution either. So don’t rent, don’t buy, live in a homeless shelter instead? Or is your ‘solution’ to force these LL’s to provide shelter to others at their expense? Hence Garth’s charity comment.
Its been game over for a few years already, most of the younger folks are just beginning to realize how screwed most of us are.
83 Quintilian
“All I know is that usually at midterms, some people would bring puppies at the uni for us to pet.
It helped to reduce the stress.”
AHHHH, that’s so cute.
Stress is flying in a bomber over Europe at 18 with a parachute on your back and even if you bail out it’s a prisoners camp.
Or being in a tin can tank in Rommels desert fight at 100 degrees F and running out of fuel and ammo.
Or fighting in a muddy field with sharp shooters all around.
Or wading thru a swamp in Vietnam.
It’s simple folks
When Demand exceeds Supply at any time, prices are pushed up.
If the population in Toronto decreased by 20% would rents still increase?
Mother-in-law tried to quietly move in the basement.
Late 50s, single, perfectly healthy, had a great job then quit cuz well…. she had to get up and go work.
C’YA…. another basement awaits you.
#87 TheDood on 01.30.23 at 5:22 pm
LOL! Am laughing ’cause I’ve been down that road. Did you ever have to eat a can of cat food? dog food? Quite tasty on toast.
——–
My brother had a summer fencing job with Parks in Wyoming and arrived on his motorcycle with barely any cash.
After learning he wouldn’t get his first paycheck for a month, he resourcefully snared a marmot from under the summer workers’ shared quarters, skinned it and fried it up. His future wife, also a summer worker in the same quarters who he didn’t yet know, was aghast.
The supervisor gave him a cash advance the next day.
Fun family story.
Don’t you worry.
The government has a long term plan to correct this untenable situation.
It’s called raising property taxes above the rate of inflation. The textbook on this is written by none other than our good buddy John Tory, to be followed by every other municipality.
That is how you successfully resolve this conundrum.
Brilliant in it’s simplicity.
Then again fooling the Canadian simpletons has always been an easy task for succeeding governments.
1. the idea that the young ones should be kicked out of the house as soon as possible is perpetuated by the rich, to get cheap labour force for their businesses (fast food etc.). Evidently, they (the rich) don’t generally do that, they prioritize on what’s important: studies, foreign languages, upper class education, the arts.
2. it’s funny to hear counter-arguments such as landlords aren’t charities – democratic and economically successful countries have implemented measures such as prohibiting empty city dwellings, rent control between tenants, proper tenant rights. That has led to healthy economies, healthy(er) demographics, and well-balanced societal development.
It’s totally acceptable for investors to snatch the waterfront villa, but it should be prohibited for them to snatch ALL (or almost all) condos in an areal – when the young don’t have the carrot in front of them, the stick approach doesn’t work either. The Swiss have noticed that since the early 90s, and have implemented the needed measures so that their youth has something to look forward to – and they are wealthy both as a country as well as a society.
3. the counter-argument to multi-generational dwelling has also been made here recurrently – again, discarding the cultures who choose to live that way, and whose societies are very well balanced, where new parents know they can count on the support of their own parents to help with the grandkids (financially, with advice, and mostly – with their time, given that they are often already retired).
Of course, we can adopt the short time horizon view, and enjoy some paper-gains (banks, stock market), or we can focus on nurturing society, and thereby ensuring long-term sustainable development for Canada. For this we only need to listen to the proper mouthpieces.
#77 Sail Away on 01.30.23 at 4:57 pm
I strongly support 3 years of mandatory military service starting at 18.
Some youths have already been taught properly by their parents, others still need to learn. The military will do it and the country will benefit. Free room and board. Enforced maturity.
Win-win.
+++++++++++++
Service in the Peace Corps in a third world country could be a good alternative choice. I admire the Mormons for their efforts.
Wow, stirred a hornet’s nest today, but then you knew that.
For my two cents and the fact I left home at 19 and never looked back. We were certainly brought up in another time where you had to look for work whatever it paid. No Dad and Mom bank, no instant gratification and no welfare state to lean on or whatever it is called today.
There will always be the back and forth of who had/has it worse. Contrary to many here, I gave up voting long ago and one reason can be seen in the hijacking of the NDP voters who lost their say when Singh sold their vote for his own self interests and on it goes.
I worked for what I have and continue to work for what I have. Looking back serves no purpose, like a motorcycle drivers test, where you knock down a cone. You can’t pick it up only make sure you don’t hit the next one.
Garth…. At twenty I left home. At 21 Dorothy declined my marriage proposal. At 23 she accepted.
*****************
I remembered this when I was walking in the park by the lake. Suddenly there was a revelation! Dorothy was waiting for you to grow a mustache and a beard (women’s love it). In youth, everything grows quickly and in 6 months you could do it. Sir – you have lost 1.5 years of married life!
still make basements anymore? Lane houses now …
What’s in my basement? My cat.
“Many cultures foster this kind of arrangement…”
Key point. Your new neighbours don’t blink at living three generations to the same house. That’s potentially more wealth/buying power and less spent on childcare.
Good luck competing with it.
#2 Moose
Add to that the “must have to survive” iPhone with unlimited data plan, Netflix, Prime Video, $200 sneakers, etc, etc, …… No wonder it’s hard to save money.
——————————————————————
What a ridiculous comment. Just shows how out of touch you are. Most people that make the purchases you list are probably in your age group.
Assuming housing is unaffordable because people spend on things you deem frivolous is untrue.
First off a phone is a necessity for most jobs these days. Most kids are probably more frugal than you as they have the mobile phone but not the home line.
These costs are a pittance if you convert to yesteryears dollars and compare to your home phone and cable bill you probably paid.
If someone lacking any numeracy skills such as you bought a house it is safe to say it was the market conditions not your ability.
I am not a millenial but if you cant even give contructive criticism you are a part of the problem.
I didnt expect any different, but the comments here are rife with boomers soapboxing about how new generations are entitled and soft, and their generation has done nothing but ‘pull themselves up by their bootstraps’.
Look at every measure of affordability related to wages increases; look at the generational wealth the real-estate bubble has caused; remember that those complaining that ‘nobody wants to work anymore’ are the generation that said ‘university or you’ll be a plumber’…without realizing how profitable it could now have been to go into the trades rather than getting that arts degree.
Hindsight is 20/20, but realize that gen z/millenials/x are dealing with what they have been dealt, and a large part of those groups feel that boomers pulled the ladder up behind them, while also living through 3 market downturns.
The same people crying about the youth would likely also be the ones suggesting you print your resume, and ‘pound the pavement’ to find a new job, handing it over to a business owner ‘with a firm handshake while looking them in the eye’.
Understand that the world has changed- problems faced now are not the same as those before, and the strategies to solve those issues have also changed. Younger generations are pissed and feel liek they’ve been handed the short end of the stick- and lets be honest- lots of evidence supports that.
Mostly, we have a crisis of expectations. The Millennials, for example, have lived their entire sentient lives thus far in a real estate bubble. Ingrained is the belief that owning property is the only route to building wealth, that the stock market’s a casino and debt is inevitable. Millions of young adults refuse to leave home and take on financial risk until they can buy real estate – which they expect their parents to partially finance or co-sign for.
As you know, this breeds generational conflict. Boomers are seen to be the beneficiaries of a time when houses were cheap (even if mortgages rates were triple). It’s why the zealots at Generation Squeeze, for example, what a surtax imposed on everyone owning a house with a million or more – assuming this will help wealth flow from the older to the younger. It all reinforces the cult of real estate which has led us to this point – houses people cannot afford, and the greatest pile of household debt in history, now resetting at a higher cost.
so what is the Ontario Government doing?
It passed Bill 23 “More Homes Built Faster Act”. This bill reverses established law and practice. It revokes the authority of municipal government to set its own zoning. The Bill is aspirational. Builders aren’t going to build more homes faster because people cannot afford them.
post from December 21, 2022:
But wait. This is just foreplay to the consummation knockout from the adults at RBC. It is truly rare to read something like this from a financial institution, especially the largest bank in the land. Its latest affordability report (released yesterday) paints a picture of a country which has committed real estate suicide, for which there is only one cure – a price plunge.
I imagine banks have officers who specialize in loans to builders. I imagine a quiet little conversations between a loan officer and a builder. They shake hands and the builder drops the project he was thinking of.
The only difference between their generation and yours Garth is the amount of economic opportunity available.
Noone wants to live at home, they do it because bills have outpaced wage growth for decades
@#41 Ed
“My youngest kid rumbled about leaving the city and moving back into our Canmore house ”
++++
I got a traffic ticket in Canmore once….still haven’t paid it.
#11 Chalkie
“Quote of the day: When one does not know the answer, your guess is as good as mine.”
That is seldom true, unless both guessers have similar competency in the subject.
I dare say a mechanic can guess what’s wrong with your car before a plumber could, a doctor your health before your mother, etc.
@#48 T-Rev
“That said: Get into trades people. The tech dream we were all sold is dead imho. Learn to plumb, pull wires or wrenches, place concrete. You can work an unlimited number of hours and make a helluva good living, and probably afford a place in BC or Ontario.”
++++
Music to my ears.
EARN while you learn.
Its as easy as that.
#90 Linda on 01.30.23 at 5:40 pm
…the solution to housing is more rental units.
*************
Did I suggest increasing the number of rental apartments as a solution? Read again. Where is it?
I just proposed a solution to limit the insane growth of rent. What does this mean for the economy? Will people be able to make savings and, as a result, buy their own housing if all money go for rent? Affordable rent means that people even with the minimum wage have a chance to buy, if not a house, then a condo. What now? Minimum salary 15. People with such small salary millions in Canada. Per month 15*160 = 2400!!!!! And that’s before taxes. Rent, well, let’s say 1800 – still need to find one. What remains? Can you live on 600 bucks?
Won’t you start to hate a government that allows this skyrocketed rent and do nothing to fix it?
Will those people have a future?
And if you suddenly lose your job and you have no savings! Isn’t this a disaster?
Shouldn’t the government do something IMMEDIATELY with the rent?
Didn’t the deputies take an oath on Parliament Hill to protect the interests of ALL their voters, and not just the land lords, who are 1000 times smaller amount. Think about it!
@#73 Dan
A retired friend of mine bought a house (bungalow) in East Vancouver in 1970 for $17,000….. @ 8% interest.
His combined salary with his wife only allowed them to qualify for a $17,000 mortgage since his mortgage payments were 25% of his entire monthly expenses (food, heat, etc.).
The bank would not loan him more than he could afford.
Perhaps its time to ask why banks are lending people money and the mortgage payments are 70, 80, 90% of their take home pay?
Time for the govt to crack down on money lenders?
Make it LAW you cannot pay more than 30%, 40%, 50% of your income on a mortgage?
But what politician has the cojones to do that?
Nah.
The coming correction will deal with it
Re: #65 Gen Z on 01.30.23 at 4:15 pm
Garth, this guy posts to the “Wolf Street” blog. He has a good grasp of economics. Most things he states make fundamental sense.
Re: #84 Shawn on 01.30.23 at 5:13 pm
Women didn’t enter the workforce until the mid 1970’s.
Tell Rosie the Riveter. – Garth
The adults living in the basement have better long term plans than the parents upstairs
@#87 The Dood.
“LOL! Am laughing ’cause I’ve been down that road. Did you ever have to eat a can of cat food? dog food? Quite tasty on toast.”
+++
Who the hell could afford to feed a cat?
Was living in Cowtown.
1980.
Working construction.
Lived in a 4 bedroom house with 6 people.
No food.
Two days to payday.
The cupboard had a jar of mustard, half a box of crackers, a half jar of sweet pickles and a jar of relish in the fridge.
We found enough money to buy one box of KD at the local Chinese store.
Cooked the kd , added the crushed the crackers and then decided that wasnt enough “food” for everyone.
Dumped the pickles, relish and mustard in.
A pot of the most vile looking goo humanity has ever concocted.
Only the brave ate that day my friends.
#114 Tony on 01.30.23 at 7:32 pm
Re: #84 Shawn on 01.30.23 at 5:13 pm
Women didn’t enter the workforce until the mid 1970’s.
Tell Rosie the Riveter. – Garth
——————————————————————
Not so. Moved to Vancouver in 67. Many women were working at that time including my wife. Where did you get that idea?
#10 zxcvbnm on 01.30.23 at 1:58 pm
…rents are now such that leaving home nets you a basement suite regardless.
——–
so true super point
The listings in my southern Ontariowe city are exploding, in the basement dweller department. They are now competing head to head with new build 1B1B.
Not too long ago, basements were cheapest, then 1B1B, then 2B+, then townhouses, then SFHs, along the price scale.
Now it’s a sh**show with all of them competing in the same price range. Getting comical to watch the stress.
Consequently, the basements are starting to edge down in price. (While everything else has been downgrading in price, the gap is widening such that basements are becoming more basement priced!)
This means, that for those who are stuck with basement dwelling (even outside of parental venues), costs will be coming down.
I predict that soon, there is going to be a massive blow out in rental. Such stiff competition amongst all of them that prices in the above ground, as you say, will become better. Still maybe not reasonable. But better.
(There will those who can no longer carry their empty units, forced to sell, which will impact everything, favourably for prospective tenants and owners.)
Whatever you do, rent pre-2018! Don’t touch the new stuff. Nothing but trouble!
#84 Shawn on 01.30.23 at 5:13 pm
Average Income 1971
#73 Dan on 01.30.23 at 4:39 pm
Hi Garth et al: I have noticed multiple comments calling an entire generation spoon fed. I should point out the average Canadian family income in 1971 is listed as $43 437 CAD as per the CCSD.CA website.
************************************
That $43, 437 figure is obviously in today’s dollars, 1971 dollars adjusted for inflation.
Actual average family income in 1971 would be closer to $10,000. I’d bet money it was under $15,000. (Ponzie?)
—————————————————————
You are correct Shawn. I was making a better than average income back then and together my wife and I would have made around $12000.
#106 45north on 01.30.23 at 6:55 pm
so what is the Ontario Government doing?
It passed Bill 23 “More Homes Built Faster Act”. This bill reverses established law and practice. It revokes the authority of municipal government to set its own zoning. The Bill is aspirational. Builders aren’t going to build more homes faster because people cannot afford them.
=============================
This will unfold into a frikkin’ disaster….
Here in BC..we have an NDP dumpster fire called ICBC.
The Provincial Gov’t NDP will call ICBC a “success” ….when the flip side is the Private Sector will never return as they were burnt once and can never trust Gov’t again.
(FYO: I am still awaiting an ICBC claim to be started after 3 months.)
If any/all Provincial Gov’ts usurp , confiscate and whittle away at classic historical empowerments such as Local Gov’t re: OCPs and zoning… then end is near.
Its O-V-E-R.
A one- size fits- all “cookie -cutter ” approach to planning and zoning will be imposed from Central Planning at the Provincial level….to be followed by the Federal Gov’t taking charge. Or, conversely…what purpose do Local Gov’ts then serve ??
Finally….don’t think this is not all part of a long term well co-ordinated plan. Many of those cognitive and awake(not “WOKE” ).., would classify this as classic COMMUNISM.
Staying at home past the expiry date seems to be a cultural thing.
In Asia.
The expectations are that the kids will pay back the favor.
In Europe, except in Italia, the kids are nudged out after military service.
I left on my own.
Never understood why kids would wanna hang around.
FREEDOM is too much fun.
One thing I think is, that kids in North America expect to have a car by 16.
And of course, UNI is so expensive.
My higher education was free.
And I did not need a car, until I came to Canada.
I live in a strata in the Okanagan. We have a bylaw that essentially says no more than two people over age 55 allowed. Now that is becoming an issue. One of the owners has moved in a couple of people one of which is palliative. They are not causing any issues but someone complained about it and now it has become a legal issue. We have an AGM coming up. That should be interesting. Some bylaws are just plain stupid and I said so and now that has made its way around the strata. I told one person on the council that I will not complain about my neighbors no matter what bylaw they break. Some people just bitch about everything. And some bylaws are ridiculous. There is no room for concern and compassion for human beings.
I used to make a weeks pay last more than a day, by filling the tank, buying a 2-4 and some peanut butter and bread. Barely had cigarette money on day two though.
Car insurance, clothes and records were out of the question. I wore rags, basically. Commando.
This went on for a long time.
Then I left the GTA.
I’d rather be as poor as I was back then, than young and that poor now.
Couldn’t get in financial trouble back then, credit cards weren’t a thing yet.
I totally back the argument that boomers had it easier than kids these days, but we could take a joke and roll with it.
Find some early editions of The Mother Earth News, issues 15 thru 50 or so, and learn to be an honest to Dog real hippie, kids.
Do every GD last thing you need done all by yourself with your own two hands.
As the Amy Schumer shows always ended…”It’s so easy”!
M69.5NS
#114 Tony on 01.30.23 at 7:32 pm
Re: #84 Shawn on 01.30.23 at 5:13 pm
Women didn’t enter the workforce until the mid 1970’s.
———-
Sure.
While the boys were fighting overseas.
The gals kept the war factories going.
Another poster.
Who failed History Class.
History of mortgage rule changes in Canada since 2004.
https://www.ratespy.com/history-of-mortgage-rule-changes-03255560
It wont be long before capatilism figures it out and sets the basement dwellers free…..
Credit unions that offer homebuyers way around stress tests set to grow!
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/credit-unions-offer-homebuyers-way-153345813.html
How many genders were there in 1971? Alot has changed, and not all for the better. The one thing is for sure, politicians aren’t there to help, they seem more interested in international junkets and virtue signaling for elections than actually solving any problem.
#103 mark on 01.30.23 at 6:26 pm
“Many cultures foster this kind of arrangement…”
Key point. Your new neighbours don’t blink at living three generations to the same house. That’s potentially more wealth/buying power and less spent on childcare.
Good luck competing with it.
++++++++++++++
Very true. We are headed firmly in that direction. Been happening for decades in the LM.
Didn’t have a wheel barrow or a hoe, so I mixed the mortar for the blocks in a trough with a trowel.
Couldn’t afford a temporary mast for an electric hook-up so I framed my house with an entry level chain saw.
come on kids, TRY!
Personally I do not see it as harder if you take out the idea of owning a home. I look back now to when I graduated highschool in 1986 and moved out into a crappy bug infested apartment on Hastings and worked night shift on weekends in a bread factory to pay for Uni. Graduated Chemical Engineering in 1992 and there were no decent Oil and Pulp jobs so went to To. to work for a consumer goods company. At that time 60% of take home went to rent. Just had a bed to start…..then bought furniture piece meal once a month. I remember my fiance and me having our first time company over for dinner. Fiance wanted to make a seafood lasagna and when we got to the teller with all the ingredients we had to take it back because we just did not have enough cash to make something so costly…that was humbling with everyone in Sobeys line looking at us. There was an execution style murder in our crappy apartment building and we only heard about it as we watched the news.
The job was tough but had great travel, I saw the world. It took tremendous fortitude and willingness to make the very best out of any situation I was in combined with a strong grounded marriage. And an eagerness to do whatever it took to further our lot. In the office on weeknights and weekends, often just for the image of it….’playing the game’. I have a 17 year old now and I definately do not see that hunger in the friend group. But at the same time, my parents did not make me nearly as comfortable as our kid is. My moving present from my father in law to my fiance and I was two suitcases, the fancy ones that the gorillas beat up in that commercial, we were grateful. We definately griped then at times, there were tears, and felt like we were never going to get ahead but we did….and now we look back on this time with pride. Never, ever, did I begrudge older and successful people, instead I tried to learn from them and copy them, because I knew that one day they would need to be replaced and goddamnit that was going to me be me.
I tell my kid that the system is set up to drive her into a Starbucks Barista job. Persistence, hard work and a plan will allow her to avoid that path.
Out in the hillsides of Chilliwack, most of the homes that have been built, and are trying to complete, have 2 suites. One went up for sale today unfinished for half of what they were selling for 2 months ago. Seems one suite won’t cut it anymore as a mortgage helper. Even with a price collapse of 30%.
#74 Ksinc on 01.30.23 at 4:39 pm
#75 Adam Smith on 01.30.23 at 4:41 pm
===
Agree with both of you.
The notion that kids must move out of parents’ house for transitioning to adulthood is a 20-th century urban North American specialty. In the traditional cultures, usually one kid stayed with parents and eventually inherited their house / farm / castle etc, dependent on their wealth. In other modern urban cultures, that’s not mandated but multi-gen living is pretty common.
If the kids need to move for employment etc, they are free to do so. Same if they are just more comfortable living on their own.
But it is stupid for them to move just because their peers think they have to move. Peers have no stake in their lives. The peers can go and slave for the bank paying the interest if they get a mortgage. Or they can slave for the landlord paying the rent.
While the kids can contribute to the parents’ house maintaining costs, spending less than the market rental rate for that. And the parents will benefit as well, growing their assets faster if they still work, or depleting their assets slower if they have retired.
If we did not have a de facto One Child Policy prior to 2020 we surely do now. If not to keep those little blighters out of the basement later on
It takes 3 incomes to carry a home in GTA, GVA. Children? File this under Control Over Our Breeding.
— -Could our Forum Host have imagined it, living in a country, wherein, soon the importation and distribution of ‘Single use’ plastic bags will be punished almost akin with a drug crime.
Take a look around your basement, attic, workshop, car trunk, garage. What do you find. Those ‘single use’ plastic bags — in use. Apartment dwellers check your kitchen garbage pail.
—
— We were to be so healthy after the two year of global government meddling in our lives :-(
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/01/30/california-saw-nearly-20-more-deaths-since-2020-but-covid-alone-cant-explain-it/
California saw nearly 20% more deaths since 2020, and COVID alone can’t explain it
Death rate in the United States continues to be elevated
Moved out at 17 (currently 35), married, no kids, household income and equity in the top 2%, modest home purchased well below our means. Came from a working poor immigrant family, there was no safety net. The choice was either succeed or fail through own actions. Feeling grateful for everything and taking nothing for granted. Ty Garth and team for the wisdom you share.
#81 SunShowers on 01.30.23 at 5:06 pm
When I hear “right to shelter”, that sounds pretty absolute to me.
===
If you want that to work, then the government needs to directly step in, i.e. build enough government-owned rental units.
Rent control reduces the supply. If you rely on rent control alone, then there won’t be enough units available for everyone who seeks a shelter. “Right to shelter” will turn into a right to be wait-listed for shelter.
Tony Women didn’t enter the workforce until the mid 1970’s.
Tell Rosie the Riveter. – Garth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWIVSmx0zPE
Rosie the Riveter – a triumph of women and North American industry
Hilarious!
This Ad came across my FB feed. I wonder who would be stupid enough to buy in:
Own Virtual Land in our upcoming location-based RPG mobile game which entitles you to earn income based on in-game transactions that happen on your land, amongst other perks..
The virtual world is mapped 1:1 to the map of Earth and each land plot is 400x400m in size.
Buy Land Plots at Early Bird Pricing now at
https://app.gateofabyss.com/
Starts from 50% off
#97 GratefulCanadian on 01.30.23 at 5:58 pm
Swiss generally care for their citizens. Getting citizenship there is extremely difficult.
In Canada you are seen purely as a replaceable cheap part of the machine. When you are worn down you would be replaced easily by imported labour (at least theoretically), so why would the oligopolies and the elite (those who matter here) care about you? They don’t.
—————————-
The right to shelter includes compressing many people and multiple families into a single dwelling.
It has been the case for generations. There is no other single country in the world/even developing country/ with such large part of the population living in basements.
That considering the danger from radon poisoning/cancer is mind blowing and yet nobody seems to care.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/radon-gas-canadian-homes-higher-sweden-1.6261607
It always astonished me how such a country can pretend to be developed /G7 , ‘rich’ country.
I have not seen EVER a single person living in a basement in Europe.
You just need to create a ‘basement dweller’ channel on YouTube and piss off the elite looking for import of cheap labour. In one place I saw 10 years ago in GTA there were 5-6 cells in a rented basement 1.5 x 2 meters, with one window in total and 1 washroom, no bath.
Use wet napkins to clean yourself told them the landlord.
In the same basement was the house air conditioner
with constant noise coming from it.
The mini-coffin dwellings in Hong Kong looked like the Louvre compared to it.
And that is not a joke.
Given the high cost of houses today is mostly driven by the appreciation in land prices, it seems to me that the government purchasing large tracts of land and using a leasehold type structure to build new communities makes lots of sense.
This would reduce the cost of new homes by at least 50%, retain the land for future uses, provide a steady income stream to governments and build sustainable and affordable new communities.
If somebody can find me a ‘basement ‘apartment’ for rent’ ad anywhere other than Canada, please let me know.
Or just post the link. Hint: You won’t.
#127 Catalyst on 01.30.23 at 8:20 pm
How many genders were there in 1971? Alot has changed, and not all for the better.
————————
Wow, there are some pretty gross people hanging out and commenting here. Plenty of gay/bi/trans people in the 70’s (and, like, forever before that) they just had to live in fear of being beaten/murdered/burned to death (to a greater extent than they do now). Give your head a shake.
I used to go to MacDonalds on paydays. Bought thirty hamburgers at nineteen cents each and froze them.Could not afford cheeseburgers cuz they were twenty four cents each. My one tasty nutritious meal per day for a month. I think that was 1968. I can afford the cheeseburgers now.
BC decriminalizes hard drugs today.
Police will not charge people with small amounts of heroin, fent, crack, etc.
Less paperwork for the govt.
A similar program in Portland Oregon has achieved nothing but reduced Court times.
Fentynal deaths have still increased.
The Drug Helpline is ignored.
A nothingburger….but the Courts are seeing fewer drug addicts.
As Vancouver sees, on average 92 overdose calls ….per day.
It’s not any secret why more paramedics are quitting or off on stress leave.
Canada’s renter population on the rise. Ownership hit a peak of 69% in 2011 to 66.5 in 2021. And expect the renter population to continue to rise even more with unaffordability the way it is.
It may be that the government itself may have to get into the rental business and build affordable housing as the BC Government did back in the early 70s under the NDP government of Davie Barrett.
After imposing rent controls the developers basically stopped building rental units and converted many to self owned condos and passing all the problems over to the buyers. Why would developers build if they cannot cover their costs. The bigger issue is the cost of land. This somehow has to come down.
So with rent controls this made the availability of rental units even scarcer and so the government itself had to get into the business of rentals and that was how BC Housing Development Corp. came to be.
So this is likely the solution to the current rental situation. The government builds the rental units and rent is based on say 25 percent of gross income. Of course the tax payers would be the ones subsidizing this.
As Garth has stated over and over, building more houses is not going to make them cheaper under current circumstances.
https://royalyorkpropertymanagement.ca/public/news-article/canadas-renter-population-is-growing-at-more-than-twice-the-rate-of-homeowners
@#Patriotic proffessor Ponzie
“Sure.
While the boys were fighting overseas.
The gals kept the war factories going.
Another poster.
Who failed History Class.”
+++
Only half the story.
When millions of men returned after the war to jobs a large majority of women were laid off.
Some historians believe…..
The bigger influencer in increased female employment in the workforce in the 60’s, 70’s etc?
The Pill.
The kids can’t buy due to a massive inflation in prices during the Trudeau borrow and spend regime. In Vancouver where bureaucrats on hot mics guffaw about keeping wages and salaries the lowest in North America, they can’t rent with single beds going for $2700 p/m. It’s not like anyone can move to Saskatoon where it’s 60 below today and Sunwing doesn’t fly to Punta Cana anymore for respite.
I’d say we’ve got a real dilemma on our hands. The millions of Fed dollars earmarked for affordable housing is losing the battle to pork barrel political lard. Fords 7000 acres of farmland is being measured for new constituencies for the millions of new Canadians desperate for Liberal largesse. They’re doing the same in Holland, confiscate farmland and house the migration in reach of urban political influence.
It’s not just policy wonk, it’s economics , who’s paying for the Global South migration North? Marc Carney has a plan. He says he knows how a global economy works. There’s plenty of land available to build houses in Saskatchewan, but the seats to control elections are circles around the GTA. Indeed, a dilemma. Did you know that China and Russia are cleaning out the stores of Gold and Silver bullion. Hundreds of tons of gold shipped East. We should think about that.
Oh yeah, about the kids, maybe it’s time for the snowbird population to just up and leave Canada permanently. Give your kids the house, the two of you fly to a sunny destination like Thailand, where cheap really is cheap. Between woke and broke, Canada just might be UN fixable . Let it fall to the young to bow down or set the fires. At least the kids have a roof over their heads while the conflagration rages.
At 68, I don’t give a crap anymore. The dividend stream keeps gushing. But man, is it ever nice to wake up with the rustling palms overhead. If Canada fails, it’s on you.
Landlords are not charities. More rent control = zero vacancy rate. – Garth
—————————————————————-
Absolutely right. Cannot understand why people cannot figure this out. I was a landlord several years back and I have to say it’s not worth the hassel. Never again.
Without a collapse in real estate prices there won’t be much if any more generations. No more relationships , no more children. This is the proven end of mouse utopia experiments which is always the death of all social animals in the experiment. In this case normal behavior is blocked by excessive living costs and competition for space and resources. Add in the stress induced violence against the species and extinction is assured. It just takes awhile.
Gee.
Doctors in BC are complaining AGAIN about the amount of paperwork they are required to do.
The rot of govt bureaucracy starts at the top and grinds everything to a halt.
13,600 doctors spend 2.6 MILLION hours doing paperwork.
This time could be spent …gasp….seeing patients.
Doctors all across Canada are complaining about the amount of govt garbage they are required to fill out.
Enough.
Eradicate 50% of govt health “care” office jobs….
Eradicate unnecessary duplicated paperwork.
Put the money into hiring more doctors.
Unfortunately govt bureaucrats don’t reduce staff….
It would make their “job” harder.
The bureaucratic govt employee balloon is gonna pop.
Long overdue.
#116 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.30.23 at 7:37 pm
Was living in Cowtown.
1980.
Working construction.
Lived in a 4 bedroom house with 6 people.
No food.
Two days to payday.
The cupboard had a jar of mustard, half a box of crackers, a half jar of sweet pickles and a jar of relish in the fridge.
We found enough money to buy one box of KD at the local Chinese store.
Cooked the kd , added the crushed the crackers and then decided that wasnt enough “food” for everyone.
Dumped the pickles, relish and mustard in.
A pot of the most vile looking goo humanity has ever concocted.
Only the brave ate that day my friends.
——- –
LOL! I think the further back in time you go, the worse it gets. Mom told me stories about Gramps seizing upon targets of opportunity while going about his day. Sure there were wild turkeys, grouse, and rabbit. But also eels, beavers, and once even a mud puppy tossed in with a pail of pan fish.
I guess you did what you had to do with 10 mouths to feed back then.
“Provide one single instance of multiple families living in a 500-foot condo. Or shut up. – Garth”
Nnnnghhh.. Okay, I normally agree with you, and I dont want to be “that” guy, .. Hmm.. okay..
100% true story : I went to a open viewing thing, where you could buy tiny apartments based off a map/model. At the time, I was 100% serious about buying (I was new to BC and it felt like a good idea, compared to UK, where I was from – it seemed quite reasonable). I spent ages looking around the various options, and the sales person totally ignored me.
A group of 6 people came in, looking to buy a single unity as a shared purchase. The sales people sparked up and suddenly surrounded them, etc. I listened in (it was the only way to find out about the properties), they were buying as 3 families together sharing the same small 2 bedroom apartment (all had children, who werent there).
Again, just my experience from a one off event. Obviously doesnt prove anything or even suggest that this is common place.
But at that point, it almost seemed like I was wasting my time as the sales people were obviously more “tuned in” to groups of families than a single person buying..
It was then I started doing my research on BC real estate and found your blog..
I still wonder what it must be like for those families.. Sometimes I can barely manage to share a house with my current wife, let alone a small apartment with multiple other people i’m not sleeping with.
You can’t make this up. Im just finishing supper & listening about legalization of 2.5 grams of hard drugs when I hear rap music. I look down into the back alley. There’s a kid with his fancy electric bike: music & lights on, sucking on the crack pipe. Doing the crack cocaine happy dance. May God strike me dead if I’m lying.
DELETED (Abusive)
Lots of belly aching in the comments today.
Are some kids coddled? sure
Are some kids independent and doing well? of.course
When I started working in late 1999 I made $34k with an entry-level tech job… I felt it was peanuts, and with a $50k student loan (in 1999 dollars) I couldn’t move out – my parents didn’t have much, but let me stay for free.
$34k in 1999 is around $55k today. Median HOUSEHOLD income in Toronto is $79k and cost of living is WAY up – most FAMILIES can’t survive these numbers, how would a new grad?
Too much belly aching, not enough empathy here.
One hesitates to wade in. Very occasionally you are surprised. A casual introduction to someone’s offspring or other unexpected encounter, the reaction always the same…” Oh..a throwback’. Good manners, attentive interest in you and all other parties present, dress that suggests classic style and utility over trendiness, gratefully no ‘vocal fry’ when conversing, and ‘surprise’, no smartphone held and eagerly and nervously glanced at in preference to full attention given to the person immediately in front of them. For the rest, wish I could feel more connected, but I cannot.
The truth is, I am perfectly aware that I lived in the very best of times. 1960’s as a kid, 1970’s as a teen, 1980’s as a young adult, and so on. We couldn’t wait to get out of our parent’s home, to spread the wings of independence, and most of us pooled our resources ($$) to share apartments as none of us could afford the rents versus our income. Buying real estate was the very last thing on our minds. We were too busy living la vida loca, going to the dance clubs which featured songs from Saturday Night Fever, Urban Cowboy, Marvin Gaye, The Eagles, or whatever else moved us. We even had something called ‘Disco’. It was the best of times..
And when we wanted to feel some nostalgia, we channeled the 1950’s. Somethings are timeless, after all….. doin’ a lot with just your talent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtcn9FX33rc
#105 The same people crying about the youth would likely also be the ones suggesting you print your resume, and ‘pound the pavement’ to find a new job, handing it over to a business owner ‘with a firm handshake while looking them in the eye’.
comment of the day
#81 SunShowers on 01.30.23 at 5:06 pm
“It was about degree, not absolutes. – Garth”
Can you please elaborate?
When I hear “right to shelter”, that sounds pretty absolute to me.
————————
The way I see it.
Some people are happy with a tent in a park.
And still they get evicted.
By order of some people who live in a 20 room mansion.
There was a time when Canadians would migrate to find better work and more affordable homes in Canada. They’d sacrifice leaving their families to make a better life for their families.
“Heaping on land transfer, property, vacancy, speculation, flipping and non-local taxes inevitably raises prices”
Increasing property taxes will decrease prices, just as interests rates. Say your property taxes are now 24k a year (2.4% of a standard million dollar house) , well that’s 2k a month less available to pay your mortgage. Down she goes. Does diddly for affordability ( monthly payments/ownership costs) however, which is the problem. Maybe that revenue can be diverted to something useful other than real estate.
Fail. – Garth
Basic bills (housing/rent, food, utilities, transportation, etc. etc.) have been increasing significantly faster than wages for quite some time now…. Unless you’re an upper class executive. Look at some of these hundred page management information circulars companies put out defending the massive executive compensation increases.
116 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.30.23 at 7:37 pm
@#87 The Dood.
“LOL! Am laughing ’cause I’ve been down that road. Did you ever have to eat a can of cat food? dog food? Quite tasty on toast.”
+++
Who the hell could afford to feed a cat?
Was living in Cowtown.
1980.
Working construction.
Lived in a 4 bedroom house with 6 people.
No food.
Two days to payday.
The cupboard had a jar of mustard, half a box of crackers, a half jar of sweet pickles and a jar of relish in the fridge.
We found enough money to buy one box of KD at the local Chinese store.
Cooked the kd , added the crushed the crackers and then decided that wasnt enough “food” for everyone.
Dumped the pickles, relish and mustard in.
A pot of the most vile looking goo humanity has ever concocted.
Only the brave ate that day my friends.
___________________________________
When you’re hungry anything will do. Sounds delicious by the way. lol.
News Site Admits AI Journalist Plagiarized and Made Stuff Up, Announces Plans to Continue Publishing Its Work Anyway
https://futurism.com/cnet-editor-in-chief-addresses-ai
https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2023/01/21/chatgpt-cites-economics-papers-that-do-not-exist/
https://futurism.com/cnet-ai-errors
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/25/1151435033/a-robot-was-scheduled-to-argue-in-court-then-came-the-jail-threats
#105 has it right.
I’m a high income millennial. So is my partner. We pay for a whole doctor or two with our taxes, or an entire squadron at the CRA. I don’t begrudge it, but I do begrudge the Boomers when they call my generation entitled and lazy. They’re lucky, I’m lucky, and we all need to check our privilege at the door.
I’d tell Boomers to wait and see what we Millennials have in store for this country, but we’re waiting to pull it off over their dead bodies. With the way demographic trends are playing out, the NDP will be the mainstream party. All because y’all can’t muster up any of that vaunted Conservative empathy for folks working full time who have to choose between food and shelter. Something something bootstraps.
The main driving force behind Canada’s wealth gap and class struggle is the manifestation of the Cantillon Effect. When coupled with years of poor fiscal policy, this effect produces distortions in price discovery of both labour and assets.
Hard working Canadians are not to blame; and leaders should not encourage intergenerational strife. Instead, people in leadership roles that lack the related training or experience should be honest with themselves and their constituents and not take-on such roles. The harm their incompetence inflicts on society is serious and often irreversible for far too many individuals and their families.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/biflation.asp
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKjJE86mQRtsLa3P3XHXlKNCqBbdlS9vo
#132 Michael in-north-york
Thank you!
Other than you, this comment section gives meaning to the term, Old Boy’s club (old, self righteous, morally superior, & culturally deluded).
Chatbot says:
“A person who espouses tolerance and inclusiveness, yet frequently has comments deleted by a moderator for being abusive, is someone who claims to have an open and accepting mindset, but their actions contradict their words. This individual often makes demeaning, insulting, or offensive comments towards others, leading to their removal by the moderator. Despite their claims of tolerance, their words and actions reveal a narrow-minded and hostile nature, demonstrating a lack of genuine inclusiveness and respect for others.”
#117 Ronaldo on 01.30.23 at 7:41 pm
#114 Tony on 01.30.23 at 7:32 pm
Re: #84 Shawn on 01.30.23 at 5:13 pm
Women didn’t enter the workforce until the mid 1970’s.
Tell Rosie the Riveter. – Garth
——————————————————————
Not so. Moved to Vancouver in 67. Many women were working at that time including my wife. Where did you get that idea?
*******
Studies have found that living under a rock can lead to ignorance!
Rents are too high and mortgages are too costly now for young people.
The only thing that will solve this is remote work. It’s not going away, this recent trend to return to office is a dead cat bounce.
Who wants a job where they force you to waste all your money on rent just to risk getting stabbed on the way to a useless and obsolete physical office?
High Land Value tax combined with a low income tax will solve the failure to launch phenomenon. This will also increase our productivity. 1M+ houses in a $20/hr wage is laughable. Major brain drain in Canada is happening and immigrants are realizing that Canada is still using postcard from 2000 to attract them.
“Are we living in a time when our kids are punished and disadvantaged because of when they were born? Are they being denied the fundamental right to real estate? Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses?”
Leaving aside the reduction of the question to a perceived perceived right to real estate (yes, that double perceived is deliberate…)
As a mid-GenXer, I experienced the tail end of the world the Boomers enjoyed and the early stages of the Millennials’. I’m in a position to compare.
I say, kids these days don’t know the half of it and we should be thankful they don’t. If they knew just how easy things used to be, and how aggressively and wantonly it was squandered, everyone over fifty would be strung up by their colostomy bags.
#160 Koot
Trudeau has throttled Canada’s vast resource wealth for reasons only he , Marc Carney and Gerry Butts would know why. Seriously, we know why, it’s easier for a bizarre ideology to kill off a country that respects an electoral system. That’s why you’ll never see protest in Kenya, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi or Venezuela. That and international eco terrorists like Canada’s comfy hotels and protective police presence while they burn our infrastructure.
Liberals seeming hatred of Canadian energy vs the Pan African and Venezuelan they support is senseless, meaning, it makes no sense. I’ve been to Venezuela , the oil fields flare off so much gas it looks like a million square miles of hell., all for less than clean Canadian energy burns off over a period of years. The rigs in Venezuela arent clean technology, they spew loose oil that runs into the jungle for miles around.
There’s no eco standards. Yet Mr Trudeau prefers we allow that over Canada’s responsible industry. We’re North, we’re bad, they’re South, they’re good. It’s leftist logic. It doesn’t have to make sense. Ask Marc Carney, he knows better than you and I. Gas and oil hubs in Kenya and Somalia, a ban on development in Canada.
Canada could be a land of plenty with zero debt. Our resources could put us ahead of Saudi and Qatar. We could have new schools, new hospitals, free education for all. Quebec could continue to thrive without any cost to itself, OK that’s already happening.
But the fact that transfer funds could easily increase by multiples. Abundance for every citizen. There would be no cost to heat your home. There would be no income tax. Literally Canada could be the richest country in the world. If only the global Marxist at the helm wasn’t allowed to wreck the economy without an absolute mandate, which the Liberals don’t have. Canada could have all the things we could want but because we need a harsh slapping for the policies our pre-nationhood past, we have poverty and increasing chaos. All because we can’t break free of an electoral dictatorship…and our comfy hotels.
#145 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.30.23 at 9:16 pm
@#Patriotic proffessor Ponzie
“Sure.
While the boys were fighting overseas.
The gals kept the war factories going.
Another poster.
Who failed History Class.”
+++
Only half the story.
When millions of men returned after the war to jobs a large majority of women were laid off.
Some historians believe…..
The bigger influencer in increased female employment in the workforce in the 60’s, 70’s etc?
The Pill.
======================
This is correct. As usual things are more nuanced than the glibness of the “Rosie the Riveter” reference, which was really just a propaganda tool. WWII wasn’t some great “women entering the workforce” moment, it was wartime necessity and largely reversed at the end of the war. Most women were displaced from their jobs by the men returning from the war. They went to work in another way, cranking out the Boomers. The late 40’s through early 60’s aren’t exactly renowned for their progressiveness regarding traditional gender roles.
This is not to diminish the incalculable contributions of women in wartime work in any way. Only to correct the historical inaccuracies being tossed around. Naturally many of the women didn’t appreciate having the jobs that they had grown very competent at taken away and some of them fought it, with varying degrees of success.
But true freedom to enter the workforce closer to the way men could started with the reproductive choice offered by the Pill, and that wasn’t until the 60’s/70’s.
61 – You don’t know much about being a Landlord. Let me tell you until last summer we owned and managed over 300 suites. The after tax return on a per unit basis was less than what a GIC now pays. And my buildings were paid for.
@#156 Yorkville renter
Comment of the day”
+++
Nah.
Just “young person blaming the Cloud”.
Millennial here. Would LOVE for a detached house in a metropolitan area to cost 5x median income at 13%. A hell of a lot better than 20x at 5%.
@#83 Quinty
“All I know is that usually at midterms, some people would bring puppies at the uni for us to pet.
It helped to reduce the stress.”
++++
The stress of the real world must be mind boggling.
And now….. global warming is responsible for colder weather……
You can’t make this up. No wonder people all over the world are starting to call BS on this money grabbing scam.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/01/29/forbes-global-warming-is-causing-colder-februaries/
Life in our fetid, crowded “Smart Cities” Why does The Left love mayhem and chaos so? They want us in danger.
.Left-leaning councillors question John Tory on plan to add police on TTC (thestar.com)
–Streets and storefront business are being choked off (As per March 2020 these are ‘non essential’.) Wait until the congestion charges hit. Coming to every city. But you will free to leave at any time Comrade, no really.
.City staff recommend Yonge Street bike lanes to be made permanent despite local pushback (cbc.ca)
—
— Whadid I tell ya. A financial incentive for the USA-for profit hospitals in counting issues as Corvid. Plus the added billing to private insurance companies. Test test test. Profit
‘We entrust our health to the very people who profit from our sickness’
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/what-happens-when-covid-19-emergency-declarations-end-implications-for-coverage-costs-and-access/
What Happens When COVID-19 Emergency Declarations End? Implications for Coverage, Costs, and Access
Hospitals will no longer receive the 20% payment increase for discharges of patients diagnosed with COVID-19 when the § 319 PHE expire
#171 – Humble
Well said. Canada’s track record in responsible and clean fossil fuel energy development is the best in the world. No question.
I worked in Prudhoe Bay in Alaska and the Americans were equally as responsible. PB had less oil on the ground than a Canadian Tire parking lot.
My personal opinion is that all eco-warriors should put their money where their mouths are and not ride bicycles on the roads or pathways because they are paved. Paving material is bitumen from the oil sands, so it should horrify and repulse them. Ditto with electric cars. They are far heavier than regular cars and mile for mile, do far more road damage.
The Alberta Sovereignty Act: Protecting Albertans from politicians, bureaucrats and NGOs who are STEM challenged.
65,000 listings for under $450,000 available in Canada right now.
My son sent me a listing for a house with a suite in his area in the interior and asked my opinion if he should buy it, figures he could get it for under 350k, I told him if he wants the responsibility of being a landlord to go for it.
Lots of work that pays well but not many young people want to live there because there is no “culture”, so they stay in the big city basements and pay the “culture premium” of falling behind, it is a choice.
Another company that is hiring engineers is looking for motivated junior workers, they do work that is multinational which requires their representatives to get a multitude of experience and make connections in all the heavy industries. Located in a small town that pays well for that area and can not find people because they do not pay Toronto wages, this town the wages to housing are about 3.5 times.
You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink.
#135 Michael in-north-york
“If you want that to work, then the government needs to directly step in, i.e. build enough government-owned rental units.”
I can get on board with this.
#177 Re-Cowtown on 01.31.23 at 8:05 am
And now….. global warming is responsible for colder weather……
You can’t make this up. No wonder people all over the world are starting to call BS on this money grabbing scam.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/01/29/forbes-global-warming-is-causing-colder-februaries/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Science buff eh?
#179 Re-Cowtown on 01.31.23 at 9:11 am
My personal opinion is that all eco-warriors should put their money where their mouths are and not ride bicycles on the roads or pathways because they are paved. Paving material is bitumen from the oil sands, so it should horrify and repulse them. Ditto with electric cars. They are far heavier than regular cars and mile for mile, do far more road damage.
————————————————
I’m sure cyclists would happily ride on well made gravel or dirt trails – are you going to offer up even an inch of your paved roads to allow them to do so? It’s public space, so why should it be designed to cater to the needs of only one specific form of transportation?
When I make a proposal, I don’t like the answer “been there, done that”. So, what makes you think it won’t work now with a bit of tweaking? Let’s talk.
A reason why I have a problem with bureaucrats – not all. Thank God they are here to save us from stupidity (sarc).
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/deep-state-real-uks-dominic-cummings-admits
Father knows best, eh. I do agree we have weak political leadership recently. Why do we have so many actors as leaders? What have you done with T2? Arrogance from a public servant stink but then there a lot of peoplekind playing and cheating the system.
I decided to sell PMTS in US$ to use against my Helco loan – perhaps I might benefit with FX. 7.2% is too high for me but current published fixed mortgage rates are lower than I expected. Could it be that banks are betting on a lower BoC rate in the near future? These people are good at what they do but I think they are early.
I think Russa will crush Ukraine and a treaty will be worked out. That will upset American NeoCons but pushes off nuclear war. I can understand Putin’s desire to protect after being betrayed by NATO’s push east and ill treatment of Russians in eastern Ukraine. Crimea and Black Sea coastline does bother me – charge of the Light Brigade anyone. Up next, the NeoCons will have their hands full with China down the road.
I forgot to mention the special peoplekind of Davos want the rest of us to eat bugs and ban gas stoves. I have been told bugs taste better microwaved. Perhaps mixing bugs in flour will make them more palatable.
There’s no question about it.
I blame it all on:
White privilege
The Patriarchy
Gender constructs
Colonialism
Racism
Homophobia
Islamophobia
Gasoline powered vehicles
Global warming
Wokeness
George Santos
AOC
Nose rings
Man buns
Hipsters
WFH
Social Media
Cancel culture
University
Erasure of history
Free love
Groupthink
Identity politics
Critical race theory
FOMO
Netflix
Socialism
Postmodernists
Pronouns
Antifa
CBC
CNN
Fat shaming
Gaslighting
Wearing masks outside
ArriveCan
Carbon taxes
Quotas
Skip the dishes
HGTV
WEF
and
Justin Trudeau
#185 Quintilian on 01.31.23 at 10:34 am
When the curmudgeons talk about how tough they had it with those double digit mortgages, I’m torn between responding with ridicule or derision.
——–
My go-to is sympathy. But that’s probably because I lean politically right.
#180 millmech on 01.31.23 at 9:12 am
65,000 listings for under $450,000 available in Canada right now.
My son sent me a listing for a house with a suite in his area in the interior and asked my opinion if he should buy it, figures he could get it for under 350k, I told him if he wants the responsibility of being a landlord to go for it
=============================
Here in BC….looks like SHTF re interior towns.
Paper Mills and Lumber Mills are closing (adding to a long list of those previously closed.)
Flew from Vancouver to Calgary a couple of years ago on a clear day. Amazed at how much has been logged.
Then we have “DRAX”…a foreign company with major holdings in BC…that takes good wood…converts to wood pellets….ships to Britain to be used as fuel for power generation(some weird accounting claims this is carbon neutral).
Add to that the First Nations land claims….as well as Mining and environmental impacts…doesn’t bode well for small interior towns.
@#3 Don on 01.30.23 at 1:50 pm
Or have we birthed a generation of entitled spoon-fed wusses? -Garth
YOu got it,man!!
Wusses they are. They are such snowflakes, they need comfort rooms in Universities. Go figure. Just what are we creating?
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
We are in the cycle of wussies.
+++++++++++
haven’t had hard times here in Canada for about 80yrs.
thats a lot of wussies
#167 DON on 01.31.23 at 1:36 am
#117 Ronaldo on 01.30.23 at 7:41 pm
#114 Tony on 01.30.23 at 7:32 pm
Re: #84 Shawn on 01.30.23 at 5:13 pm
Women didn’t enter the workforce until the mid 1970’s.
Tell Rosie the Riveter. – Garth
===============================
A bit of an aside…DETROIT.
.
During WW2…many Detroit auto workers entered the military. Concurrently, the factories were turned over to support the war effort.
To fill this manpower void….
…..Blacks from the Southern States were brought up to the Detroit area. The sheer numbers overwhelmed the locals…caused a lot of friction …and resulted in flight to the suburbs…thus hollowing out Detroit.
Detroit..once called the “Paris of the Midwest” and having THE most wealthy middle class in the USA…never recovered.
Lesson is: NO City is immune….
#111 ‘Vlad’ – first, Ontario is a province that has rent control legislation. So does B.C., another province where the cost of housing is insanely high. Second, while it is true that the cost of rent has skyrocketed, what did you expect? For it to remain at pre-pandemic levels, when 1) the cost of building supplies skyrocketed; 2) when inflation added to the price increase for said materials, plus labor, equipment; 3) when mortgage rates increased; 4) when utility rates increased; 5) when property taxes & insurance increased. Do you truly believe that all LL’s own their buildings outright, have no debt or expenses? All this even prior to 1) the government suspending the Landlord Tenant board hearings, whereupon many renters ceased to pay any rent whatsoever; 2) the flow of folks out of the close urban quarters to places where six plus feet of distance was a possibility; 3) the resurgence of the return to ‘normal’, with the same surge back into urban living – with folks entering ‘bidding wars’ over rental units. The LL’s didn’t initiate this; would be tenants did.
Like it or not, those price increases were not all due to LL ‘greed’ or some kind of evil plot to make life harder for ordinary Canadians. A LL isn’t responsible for the financial woes suffered by tenants. In many cases, a LL is suffering just as much or even more – as Garth points out, in many cases LL’s were subsidizing tenants even before Covid triggered supply chain & inflationary issues.
#189 Alois on 01.31.23 at 11:10 am
Flew from Vancouver to Calgary a couple of years ago on a clear day. Amazed at how much has been logged.
_______________________________
Ditto: Hfx>T.O., all of east of Lake Ontario sector, south of the St. Lawrence.
Canned tuna and salmon is about the same price as cat food.
People saying they ate cat food are either really dumb or fans of Monty Python’s Yorkshiremen sketch (“I used to walk uphill both ways to school.”)
Up until 3 years ago you could get a can of decent beef barley soup for $1. (Now it’s smaller and $4.)
And KD was pennies for a box.
Spare us the cat food stories. Rolls eyes.
#180 millmech on 01.31.23 at 9:12 am
65,000 listings for under $450,000 available in Canada right now.
My son sent me a listing for a house with a suite in his area in the interior and asked my opinion if he should buy it, figures he could get it for under 350k, I told him if he wants the responsibility of being a landlord to go for it
_____
I regularly cruise the MLS for homes in Northern / North Western Ontario just to see what’s out there beyond the haze of Southern Ontario.
There is absolutely no question the right individual could have a very high standard of living up there with shelter, financial, and retirement security. Actual nice homes for 200K. The real wilderness of Canada at your doorstep. Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping sledding, ATV’ing, float plane Mecca.
If I was single and childless, I’d be up there in a heartbeat.
#185 Quintilian
When the curmudgeons talk about how tough they had it with those double digit mortgages, I’m torn between responding with ridicule or derision.
————————————-
When the entitled wusses talk about housing affordability and existential angst, I’m torn between responding with mockery or indifference.
I used to have some sympathy for younger generations as it’s unquestionably true that government largesse which has fueled constant inflation and insurmountable debt has certainly handed the young a massive debt load and high prices.
But now I see these younger Gen Z’s voting for and screaming for even more of the policies that have disadvantaged them so why should I care?
Plus, they all seem to think that they should have the same amount of wealth at 25 that I do at 65.
When they are in their 60’s they will be extremely wealthy (well, the hard working intelligent ones will be) and the generations following them will all be complaining how they were born at the wrong time to miss the enormous benefits of the technology revolution that is creating wealth at a pace that has never been seen before and might never be again.
But that’s not good enough for Gen Z, they want it now.
#149 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.30.23 at 9:38 pm
Gee.
Doctors in BC are complaining AGAIN about the amount of paperwork they are required to do.
===============
Had an interesting experience a while back with my GP.
Went to my GP awhile back…….diagnosed I had “X”
Follow up…my GP is out with his own medical issues…so his replacement MD makes another diagnosis “Y”
Then my next appointment..my regular GP is still out…then next replacement MD diagnosed me with “Z”.
Point is…
(3) MD’s..(3) different diagnosis’…
NO consistency.
How much of this goes on ?
We are lead to believe that MD’s are literal “gods”.
Luckily, my medical issues were minor,…ultimately resolved…but what if they weren’t… and the proper diagnosis was “Too Late”?.
Methinks many MD visits are for minor issues…so bad MD diagnosis’ tend to be few and far between…..relatively speaking..
“Rockefeller” (modern)medicine is an issue for another day.
Just my 2 cents ….
@#196 Damifino on 01.31.23 at 12:04 pm
Amen.
#181 SunShowers on 01.31.23 at 9:15 am
#135 Michael in-north-york
“If you want that to work, then the government needs to directly step in, i.e. build enough government-owned rental units.”
I can get on board with this.
_____
Do your research before boarding…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruitt%E2%80%93Igoe
#192 Linda on 01.31.23 at 11:48 am
#111 ‘Vlad’ – first, Ontario is a province that has rent control legislation. So does B.C., another province where the cost of housing is insanely high.
======================
A friend of mine “B” had an apartment he rented in Vancouver BC for approx. 15 years. Based on his tenancy time frame, rent increases were kept low.
However, his landlord hired some pit- bull building manager “G” unfortunately around time of CoVid.
Long story short…”G” started taking video and photos aka spying on my friend “B”…over any/all Covid protocol infraction so as the evict him….as the apartment could garner almost $1000 more per month in rent to a new tenant.
I had thought my friend “B” would have no problem winning his case before the “neutral” BC Gov’t Rentalsmen…but he lost and had to move.
Curious how much of this went on.
#195 IHCTD9 on 01.31.23 at 12:03 pm
I’m in NWO and you’re absolutely right. I live “in town” and there is a world-class walleye lake a few blocks down the street. Cheap living and they can’t find enough people to do the work that needs to be done here.
As a Gen-Xer I see both sides :P
Honestly though, I’d prefer (and find easier) a situation with higher rates and lower prices vs. the other way around we now have. So the boomers, despite the hardship of high rates still had it better IMO. You’re always better off paying a lower price regardless of what the rate is. This is of course assuming you can keep your job but this isn’t a factor because it’s something I take personal responsibility for. Also assuming wages aren’t elastic to the downside but this seems to be the way it goes, at least for salaried positions.
Population of Canada in 1971: 21.4 million. Today 38.3 million. Some things are not going to change. – Garth
#189
There is opportunity for cheap housing especially the WFH who could be set for life. As well there is also this guy on reddit that lost money on housing and the funny thing is that all the posters are astounded and can not believe he is telling the truth because according to them real estate only goes up, lol.
Prince George is going to be cheap by the summer with multiple mills closed along with the pulp mill, we had our big meeting at our mill yesterday, going down to one shift, 60% cut in work force and plant will be closed by end of year, I believe.
He who panics first panics best, seen this coming in the industry and consulted with an employment lawyer early last year on how to get the best severance package, took the advice and will move onto the next job on Monday, well capitalized.
Here is the reddit post.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/10q1rke/taking_an_l_on_property/
#147 Ronaldo on 01.30.23 at 9:26 pm
Landlords are not charities. More rent control = zero vacancy rate. – Garth
—————————————————————-
Absolutely right. Cannot understand why people cannot figure this out. I was a landlord several years back and I have to say it’s not worth the hassel. Never again.
This is a fallacy. You (and maybe Garth) are confused by this topic. If being a “landlord” (stupid name btw, when it comes to speculating with a shoebox in the sky) was unproductive economically, there would be no bidding wars, and the market would be more balanced, and costs lower. Read on.
Right now we are finding ourselves in a very bad spot, where lots of people cannot cross the threshold to purchasing, which forces them (because they need shelter, it’s not an optional item on the wishlist) to rent, which then pits them against others having the same need, which inevitably increases prices. Which in turn creates the flywheel that pushes even more “investors” cu buy even more units from the available stock, with the expectation (sometimes fulfilled, other times not so much, but the expectation is there nonetheless) that others will pay their mortgage, and that they’ll make money no matter what.
And make no mistake – the housing market (like happens with the doctors) is very much controlled, and not free. The supply is strictly controlled by various levels of government (through different levers), housing is made even more expensive with “updated codes” (I’d rather want to have simpler housing available than driving or walking by scores of homeless people downtown, year-round), banks make a significant % of their profits from housing – in a word it’s big business. Good for few, bad for many, and detrimental for the country.
For simplicity, imagine a city with one grocery store (when we’re talking housing, there are various monopolies, such as the province->building codes, the city->construction permits, shenanigans with certain developers, etc.). The city grows slowly, and the store owner strategizes to order enough food to more or less feed everyone, but also to reduce food waste through over-supplying. Now think “investors”. They place orders even before the food truck has arrived (like “buying on plan”), and take over a chunk of the available supply. Later in the day, when the regular population comes from work, the shelves of the grocery store are bare, but the “food scalpers” are awaiting them in the store parking lot, proposing the same merchandise, but at a higher price. That’s pretty much what happens with the real estate market as well. There is legislation against ticket scalping, it should obviously exist for mandatory items, like food and shelter.
inflationary =greed
Monday, January 30, 2023
Two Florida Doctors Convicted in $31 Million Medicare Fraud Scheme
A federal jury convicted two Florida doctors today for their roles in a scheme to defraud Medicare by submitting over $31 million in claims for expensive durable medical equipment (DME) that Medicare beneficiaries did not need and that were procured through the payment of kickbacks.
According to court documents and evidence presented at trial, Dean Zusmer, 54, of Miami, was a chiropractor who conspired with others to steal millions of dollars from Medicare. Zusmer owned one of four DME companies that collectively billed Medicare over $31 million for medically unnecessary DME, of which over $15 million was paid. Zusmer and his co-conspirators, including Jeremy Waxman, acquired patient referrals and signed doctors’ orders by paying kickbacks to marketers who used overseas call centers to solicit patients and telemedicine companies to procure prescriptions for unnecessary braces for these patients.
Court documents and evidence presented at trial further demonstrated that Lawrence Alexander, M.D., 45, of Miami, was an orthopedic surgeon who owned one of the DME companies with Waxman and concealed both his and Waxman’s roles in the scheme by putting the DME company in the name of one of Alexander’s family members.
Zusmer was convicted of conspiracy to commit health care fraud, health care fraud, conspiracy to pay illegal health care kickbacks, paying illegal health care kickbacks, and false statements relating to health care matters. He is scheduled to be sentenced on April 20 and faces a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison on each of the following counts: conspiracy to commit health care fraud; health care fraud; and paying illegal health care kickbacks. Zusmer faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison for the following counts: conspiracy to pay illegal health care kickbacks and false statements relating to health care matters.
https://www.justice.gov/news
https://www.justice.gov/tax/tax-division-press-releases
over appraisals
Wednesday, January 18, 2023
CPA Pleads Guilty to Conspiring to Promote Fraudulent Tax Shelter Scheme
Helped Obtain Fraudulent Syndicated Conservation Easement Tax Breaks for High-Income Earners
A Florida CPA pleaded guilty in the District of New Jersey today to conspiring to sell fraudulent tax deductions disguised as charitable deductions to high-income clients.
According to the Information and other court documents and statements made in court, Ralph B. Anderson of Naples, Florida, promoted and sold fraudulent syndicated conservation easement tax shelters that allowed high-income clients to buy tax deductions to illegally shelter their income from taxes. These illegal tax shelters facilitated high-income taxpayers in claiming inflated charitable contribution tax deductions in connection with the donation of a conservation easement over land. Between 2013 and 2019, while working as a CPA, Anderson, along with others, promoted and helped sell such fraudulent syndicated conservation easement tax shelters. To carry out the scheme, the conspirators obtained falsely inflated appraisals in order to achieve the desired amount of tax deductions. Anderson was paid more than $300,000 in commissions for his promotion and sale of the tax shelters. He also was given “free units” he could use to take false deductions for charitable contributions on his own tax returns. As a part of his guilty plea, Anderson admitted his conduct resulted in a loss of nearly $3.5 million.
#142 Yukon Elvis on 01.30.23 at 9:08 pm
I used to go to MacDonalds on paydays. Bought thirty hamburgers at nineteen cents each and froze them.Could not afford cheeseburgers cuz they were twenty four cents each. My one tasty nutritious meal per day for a month. I think that was 1968. I can afford the cheeseburgers now.
I think that when immigrants to this country read the above they are shaking their heads in unison and are wondering what they’ve done with their lives, as this won’t happen even in most developing countries. This is worse than third world, and hopefully not too many Canadians have experienced this!
Yukon Elvis – so over a few decades your actual progress was switching from frozen McDonalds hamburgers to cheeseburgers?
why not just pay your taxes rather than fund these middle men crooks
… have been indicted in the $1 billion Garza tax shelter scheme, announced U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Texas Chad E. Meacham and Acting Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Justice Department’s Tax Division Stuart Goldberg.
#204 Millmech on 01.31.23 at 12:44 pm
#189
There is opportunity for cheap housing especially the WFH who could be set for life. As well there is also this guy on reddit that lost money on housing and the funny thing is that all the posters are astounded and can not believe he is telling the truth because according to them real estate only goes up, lol.
Prince George is going to be cheap by the summer with multiple mills closed along with the pulp mill, we had our big meeting at our mill yesterday, going down to one shift, 60% cut in work force and plant will be closed by end of year, I believe.
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Remember BC’s Tumbler Ridge?
The THEN BC Gov’t created this a mega project back in the 1980’s….then the whole thing collapsed. The homes were sold at fire sale prices…this was a modern town with most amenties.
Friend of mine bought (2) SFH homes at around $25,000(…yes $25 K) each. He sold them later to retirees…making a decent profit.
However…and moreso now….small town living has its drawbacks…especially as one gets older and healthcare is either less available or severely curtailed.
Here in BC….more and more horror stories of closed ER wards, staffing shortages… and limited ambulance service in small towns.
Unless these issues are resolved…..this will impact RE markets outside major cities ……moreso with Seniors.
#172 History Matters on 01.31.23 at 5:16 am
#145 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.30.23 at 9:16 pm
@#Patriotic proffessor Ponzie
“Sure.
While the boys were fighting overseas.
The gals kept the war factories going.
Another poster.
Who failed History Class.”
====================
Google ” Aaron Russo”
He got chummy with a Rockefeller.
Rockefeller asked Russo what he thought Womens Movement/Feminism was all about. Russo submitted equality etc.
Rockefeller scold him saying the MAIN reason they(ie TPTB) wanted women in the workforce was so they too could be taxed. (Of course…other societal impacts were created by design)
Of course ..the consequences ?
….(2) incomes in a household did not pay off a mortgage quicker…..conversely this created bidding wars that raised housing prices.
#170 Mtowne “everyone over fifty would be strung up by their colostomy bags”
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Funny, Over 60 and still chuckling
@#196 Damifino on 01.31.23 at 12:04 pm
#185 Quintilian
When the curmudgeons talk about how tough they had it with those double digit mortgages, I’m torn between responding with ridicule or derision.
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When the entitled wusses talk about housing affordability and existential angst, I’m torn between responding with mockery or indifference.
+++++++++
spoken like a true curmudgeon lol.
good job.
People being able to hive off, get married and set up households independent of parents and grandparents was an exception in history, not the norm. Seems to be returning to normal, with parents taking care orld kids and, when the time comes, kids taking care of aged parents.
Cardboard box demand plunges. Economy on the mend.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/cardboard-box-demand-plunging-rates-unseen-great-recession