Enough already?

The bank rate swelled again by a half point Wednesday. No surprise there. The prime rate zips to 6.45% tomorrow. Yawn. Variable-rate mortgage angst grows. Yeah, we knew that would happen, too.

But here’s the big news.

The last time the Bank of Canada stepped on the gas and hiked the cost of money (October 26th), it said this:

Given elevated inflation and inflation expectations, as well as ongoing demand pressures in the economy, the Governing Council expects that the policy interest rate will need to rise further.

This time, here’s the official statement from Tiff & Co:

Looking ahead, Governing Council will be considering whether the policy interest rate needs to rise further to bring supply and demand back into balance and return inflation to target.

Can you spot the differences, kids?

You betcha. In October the monetary authorities said clearly, decisively and plainly that the rate “will need to rise further.” But today the bank stated it will “consider whether the policy rate needs to rise further.”

This is a big deal. It clearly underscores the fact our CB is at, or very near to, the terminal rate. The end. The apex. The orgiastic conclusion of stimulus withdrawal (that sounded strange…). It signals a pause in rate-humping will soon arrive after the country has endured a 1,600% increase. Thus the bankers must have data indicating the economy’s starting to roll over, that consumer spending will be slowing, unemployment increasing, asset values falling and the runway for that soft landing is indeed in sight.

Let’s review why this is absolutely inevitable, in one simple chart. Here is it. This is how much money a family in Kelowna must earn in order to afford the average house, given 5%+ mortgages. (And rest assured things are just as dire in Etobicoke, Oak Bay, Niagara and Kits.)

Income needed to buy in K-Town up $100k in 2 years

Click to enlarge. Source: Harbinger Data Analytics, Statistics Canada

On this chart, the blue line is average local household income. The black line is average Canadian household income. The scary red line is income required to carry a detached house in Kelowna, using the stress test and a 35% Gross Debt Service (GDS) ratio. What happened since 2021 is beyond stunning. Just 20 months ago a family bringing in $120,000 could buy. Now a family earning $200,000 cannot carry the same place. And while K-Town houses are falling in value, you can clearly see what’s happened as mortgages zipped from 2% to 6% (still cheap by historic standards).

This is what the central bank is facing. Disaster if the tightening continues. Collapsed markets. As we detailed here yesterday, already sales have crashed 50% in major markets. If the policy rate in Ottawa keeps popping, markets will seize – unless asset values fall at a pace unknown in modern history.

Is Tiff willing to take that gamble? Apparently not. Said he this morning:

There is growing evidence that tighter monetary policy is restraining domestic demand: consumption moderated in the third quarter, and housing market activity continues to decline. Overall, the data since the October MPR support the Bank’s outlook that growth will essentially stall through the end of this year and the first half of next year.

Meanwhile in the BC Interior, a great example of how monetary policy hits the real world. “Affordability has blown out,” reports Harbinger Data Analytics. “Those well-capitalized who can weather a long downturn until conditions become more favorable can avoid distress leading to forced sales and losses and potentially make gains if/when the market improves. Sadly, those not financially wise and/or in a position to ride out a downturn will be forced to lose some or all of their money invested into real estate. Again, this puts the market at risk for a crash depending on the amount of distressed volume at play. And we are getting to the point where we are about to find out.”

Indeed, we are.

But Tiff just blinked.

About the picture: “My sister just returned from friend’s home,” writes Leslie, “where the Big Four were snapped in training for the arrival of Santa Claus. Is this the future of Canadian homes, to the moon for our immigration numbers?”

149 comments ↓

#1 Habitt on 12.07.22 at 11:17 am

Not much to say about today’s post Garth. Except thanks it was excellent.

#2 Calgary on 12.07.22 at 11:25 am

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/another-pivot-bank-canada-hikes-50bps-it-signals-potential-pause-inflation-peaking

Will BOC pivot?

A pause. No pivot. – Garth

#3 CALEDONDAVE on 12.07.22 at 11:26 am

Furst!

#4 Dr V on 12.07.22 at 11:27 am

Tiff has also been clear that taking his foot off the pedal too soon is the biggest danger. I called this hike right, and I bet the first and third rate dates in 2023 will each yield a 0.25% increase, even if it’s just to show he can still do it.

After that?????

#5 T on 12.07.22 at 11:28 am

No he didn’t.

Rates are not going to stop rising until inflations reaches 2% target.

They may pause—but will simply keep rising once we see there is little effect on dropping inflation.

What does that mean?
You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to dump stock and mutual funds and obtain zero risk assets-risk free.

With zero fees.

#6 Blake on 12.07.22 at 11:29 am

Living in Kelowna now! Sold in Toronto at the peak and bought for cash a beautiful place near the downtown core. There was such a frenzy the developer sold out. He decided to build 13 units and sell them after they were finished for more profit. All 13 are unsold at the moment, and he has closed the sales centre and laid off the salesperson. We bought for $680k a brand new build after selling out 40-year-old home in the Durham region for just shy of a million.
The developer almost doubled the sales price of our unit and now 13 sit unsold. Nobody here can afford the million dollar listings except those moving here that were selling and making bank, that’s a thing of the past it seems!

#7 Rook on 12.07.22 at 11:32 am

Great news about ratess today. As expected.

Just a quick note about your 30% price drop, 5% down, 20x leverage note yesterday.

You take your $1.56 million detached in Toronto.

In order to buy that, you need 20% down payment, because it’s over a million —> $312,000 down payment.

Less the $35,000 you can withdraw from your RRSP, that leaves $277,000 you have to beg/borrow/steal for the down payment.

But, because you have to pay back that $35,000 over 15 years, you have to remember to tack on, let’s call it an extra $200 a month, in addition to your mortgage, to repay the thing.

Which leaves you a mortgage of $1.248 million

Running that through Ye Olde RBC mortgage calculator, at the rate of 5.69% (probably higher now with the rate increase), and a 5 year fixed term, and you get:

25 year am: $7756/month (7956/month for the first 15 including rrsp repayment)
30 year am: $7183/month (7383/month for the first 15 years including rrsp repayment)

Have I got this right? Probably an oversimplification, but am I in the ballpark?

Assuming I haven’t borked any of the math on this, let’s assume the buyers are solar-powered robots, who don’t need to spend money on anything else like pesky food or utilities or clothes for the am period. Mortgage payments alone are $88,596 a year after-tax, which means that, in Ontario, you have to be making somewhere around $121k/year in order to basically break even.

$88,596 a year is still pretty eye-watering.

What have we done to ourselves?

#8 Ponnaps on 12.07.22 at 11:50 am

Great post Garth..

Had to re-read that para from Harbinger Data Analytics more than a couple of time and yet there was zilch intelligent information to learn from other than speculation that everyone have already been spouting..

#9 Dogman01 on 12.07.22 at 11:53 am

#5 T on 12.07.22 at 11:28 am

Rates are not going to stop rising until inflation reaches 2% target.

They may pause—but will simply keep rising once we see there is little effect on dropping inflation.

What does that mean?
You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to dump stock and mutual funds and obtain zero risk assets-risk free.

—————————————————–
Hey T
I agree, I suspect we get two more 0.25% Increases.
So by end of March 2023 I will be in the market for some of that juicy fixed income.

Anyone know of a tutorial for how to buy Provincial Bonds for a peon direct investor? (thus far all my Bonds have been in ETF’s) Now I want to explore just collecting some coupons for the five years…or 10. …never done that before!

#10 Balmuto on 12.07.22 at 11:58 am

A pause is not enough, Tiff is going to have to start cutting if he wants to save the housing market.

That won’t come for at least a year. Maybe bond yields will drop low enough that fixed rate mortgages can prop up prices.

But as Ron Butler pointed out, the math doesn’t work even at 4% mortgages, we need to get back down to a 3-handle at least. And we’re just below 5% on fixed rates right now. And the market until recently was goosed by 0.99% VRMs, we won’t see those any time soon if ever.

In his words:

“Most IMPORTANT thing: not going UP isn’t DOWN”

#11 earthboundmisfit on 12.07.22 at 11:58 am

Having lived there for 42 of my 67 years, I can assure you that K-Town is, properly, Kingston, not Kelowna.

#12 alexinvestor on 12.07.22 at 12:05 pm

At least Tiff went 50 bps. I thought he might not have the guts to do even this. Now it’s time for the beautiful deleveraging to take place. Wages go up, while fixed mortgage payments stay the same.

#13 Selling on 12.07.22 at 12:06 pm

Everyone’s selling something.

Widget. Point of view. Belief.

Fascinating.

What gives them the right to blast this at me?

When did I agree for advertisers to ruin my scenery with ads?

CREEPS.

Trying to get my mind share. To think about what they have to offer. To make me want it. To make me believe. They’re all the same. Certainly this film festival named guy is no different.

#14 JP on 12.07.22 at 12:10 pm

They can’t blink though. If the Fed keeps increasing interest rates and we don’t the result will be a collapsing Canadian dollar. That means increased inflation due to rising prices given that so much of what we buy is from the U.S.

#15 Quintilian on 12.07.22 at 12:17 pm

Sadly, those not financially wise and/or in a position to ride out a downturn will be forced to lose some or all of their money invested into real estate. Again, this puts the market at risk for a crash depending on the amount of distressed volume at play. And we are getting to the point where we are about to find out.”

I don’t think the BOC and its back channels to the politicians are going to worry about the over extended fools, there just not enough of them to have financial or political clout to abort the mission to rational monetary policy, now that we have seen what destructive distortions the Greenspan experiment created.

Some people will have to get educated, and then get a real job.

#16 Summertime on 12.07.22 at 12:19 pm

And apparently that was it.

CPI at 7-8 , real inflation of necessities double that,
rents increase by 20-25 % in a year, food around that or higher and now the miserable 4.25 % rates by the central banks magicians is the max they can do?

It really is the terminal rates in the coffin of the middle class as inflation will not be subdued or even cause a dent in it’s rise.

And that was expected, that was the very goal of the central bankers in first place, to reduce debt by causing and then understating inflation, so the current monetary ponzi scheme can continue for the profit of the banks.

Let’s see how that plays out for the average Joe Shmoe.

#17 Dolce Vita on 12.07.22 at 12:22 pm

” … considering * whether the policy interest rate needs to rise further … ”

* what the US Fed does.

—————

What Lord of the World Powell does in Jan, Feb so will Uncle Tiffy.

Besides, does anybody trust BoC statements on where rates are headed?

Bank of Canada sees interest rates on hold into 2023

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bank-of-canada-sees-interest-rates-on-hold-into-2023-1.1514208.amp.webview.ios.html

– Oct 28, 2020

[the then overnight rate was 0.25%]

#18 Jason on 12.07.22 at 12:23 pm

Just a note Garth that the information in the blog is very much appreciated. But I don’t think we give enough kudos to you for your writing. Your words are chosen well, and clearly you’ve demonstrated it doesn’t take you long to put thoughts to page. Thanks again for all your work helping us folks with financial literacy and being entertaining at the same time!

#19 Brett in Calgary on 12.07.22 at 12:27 pm

This is not surprising – as I’ve mentioned a few times, Canada’s path is one of weaker growth and more debt required to maintain living standards. Inflation will fall quickly in 2023.

#20 TurnerNation on 12.07.22 at 12:28 pm

Dang what a shame, no one will have to close and take on the unaffordable mortgages at ever higher interest rates.
They must be devastated. Quelle dommage.

https://www.cp24.com/news/massive-residential-fire-consumes-4-homes-in-hamilton-subdivision-1.6183506
Hamilton Fire Department (HFD) Chief Dave Cunliffe says the blaze started just after 1 p.m. in a new subdivision under construction … a “well-involved” fire in multiple single family homes, and that one house had already collapsed.

—- They own nothing (And might be happy)

https://twitter.com/GuyDealership/status/1600218989183045675
CarDealershipGuy @GuyDealership
People are taking ridiculously long car loans
Percent of new car purchases with 73+ month loan terms:
October 2017: 27%
October 2022: 34% (!!!)
No good. (via Edmunds)

———–
https://twitter.com/GRDecter/status/1600265272551579648
Genevieve Roch-Decter, CFA @GRDecter
Investors are frantically pulling money out of real estate.
Nontraded REITs saw $3.7 billion in redemptions in Q3.
This is a 12x increase over last year.

#21 Steven Rowlandson on 12.07.22 at 12:30 pm

Two years ago, Stacked restaurants had an early bird breakfast special for 4.99 now it is 6.99. That is a 40% rise in 2 years. That averages out to 20% price inflation per annum. I’d say there is plenty of room to the upside for raising rates.

#22 the Jaguar on 12.07.22 at 12:34 pm

“Those well-capitalized who can weather a long downturn until conditions become more favorable can avoid distress leading to forced sales and losses and potentially make gains if/when the market improves. Sadly, those not financially wise and/or in a position to ride out a downturn will be forced to lose some or all of their money invested into real estate.”-(Kelowna)

–Sounds like the investor/builder community to me, not the folks who live on Abbott Street or the ones who cashed out of the lower mainland and bought in the Okanagan Valley. ++

If Tiff thinks growth will ‘stall’ through the end of this year and into the first half of next year he will need a lot of help and skill to land this moby dick of economic gluttony. Whatever the strategy is, and with cooperation of institutional entities to secure some kind of safe landing, there is still going to be ‘breakage’. Similar to most forms of bad behaviour, it’s always worse than it appears on the surface.

#23 dave on 12.07.22 at 12:41 pm

When is the stock market going to see green?

Its red every other day!!!

#24 Pivot on 12.07.22 at 12:45 pm

Growth “stalling” is too convenient of a prediction. What is the likelihood that we’ve optimized monetary and fiscal policy to achieve an exactly 0 real growth rate in GDP while inflation coasts back down to target 2%?

Seems to good to be true. You know what they say when something is too good to be true…

#25 PBrasseur on 12.07.22 at 12:47 pm

Big government don’t mind inflation because their revenues go up, sure they pay lip service to the suffering of the “little guy”, but in the end big government serves the interest of big government first. Inflation is a hidden tax and to them it sure beats having to tax directly the taxpayers.

And don’t kid yourself , the central bank is inherently part of big government.

In the end though, no matter what they do to kick problems down the road, big government is unsustainable.

#26 Summertime on 12.07.22 at 12:48 pm

#21 Steven Rowlandson on 12.07.22 at 12:30 pm

Precisely.

If you do a survey on how the average Joe feels inflation, my bet is on 15-20 % range winning.

Whatever statistics Canada reports and BoC addresses as CPI/inflation is pathetic.

4.25 % rates is laughable.

It could have been comical if it was not tragic for people on fixed income who depend on indexed benefits, for savers, renters an retirees.

But again, that was expected, this is how the world work these days.

Congratulations to the winners.

For the losers I can recommend stocking on lubricant.

Lot’s of pain ahead.

#27 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.07.22 at 12:55 pm

117 Faron on 12.07.22 at 11:30 am
#115 Yukon Elvis on 12.07.22 at 11:05 am

I’d be worried but I don’t think you have the mental faculties to sneak a snickers bar past the Walmart greeter.
————————
Haha,
Good one.
“not even when FURZ is distracting the greeter with his irrelevant anecdotes”

#28 saskatoon on 12.07.22 at 12:55 pm

they can raise rates to whatever they want…

IT’S NOT GONNA STOP INFLATION.

#29 Joseph R. on 12.07.22 at 12:59 pm

#17 Dolce Vita on 12.07.22 at 12:22 pm
” … considering * whether the policy interest rate needs to rise further … ”

* what the US Fed does.

—————

What Lord of the World Powell does in Jan, Feb so will Uncle Tiffy.

Besides, does anybody trust BoC statements on where rates are headed?

Bank of Canada sees interest rates on hold into 2023

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bank-of-canada-sees-interest-rates-on-hold-into-2023-1.1514208.amp.webview.ios.html

– Oct 28, 2020

[the then overnight rate was 0.25%]

—————————————-

Smart people change their minds and goals when presented with new evidence: in this case, inflation was creeping up in 2021-22.

YOU distrust them but normal people would, in fact, trust them for that reason.

If not for new evidences, what can make YOU change your mind, then?

#30 Fasa on 12.07.22 at 1:00 pm

1. Hosing prices trending down – Check
2. Saving rate trending down – Check
3. Consumer spending – people are still spending just putting it on credit as we saw from the last Equifax report so while the savings rate is down the credit usage is up – not a good thing as folks borrowing are doing so with higher rates
4. Employment – this is holding steady

Although they started late I feel the BOC has done a good job so far – 2/4 are where they want them to be – accessing the next set of data points before committing to anything was the right language to use.

My gut still says we need to see unemployment trend up which in turn should drive consumer spending down.

The pain has started but not fully felt yet.

#31 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.07.22 at 1:01 pm

11 earthboundmisfit on 12.07.22 at 11:58 am
Having lived there for 42 of my 67 years, I can assure you that K-Town is, properly, Kingston, not Kelowna.
————————-
Must agree.
Been there for a short spell.
Much nicer than Kelowna.
And the History!
Black flies, not so nice though.

#32 chalkie on 12.07.22 at 1:08 pm

As per my previous comments, I was on the 50-basis point hike side for today’s setting of the BOC rate. The inflation math made no sense for the group that was setting their sights on a 25-basis point hike.

The spread between 3.75% bank BOC rate versus the 6.9% inflation rate made no sense, it was just too far apart, only the 50-basis point or higher would have put any energy into cooling inflation for Canada.

The next time around for the setting of the BOC on January 25th 2023, if we can get inflation down to 5.25 % over the next six week, it will leave room for a pause in rates as the new 4.25% rates plays itself out, just like a PUT Option, it’s time value that pays off, give it time to play out, we are winning, patience is virtue, lets allow our morals to adjust and expected behavior to settle down.

It would have been very embarrassing for the Bank of Canada to have gone just 25 basis points this time around and 50 basis points in the next setting in January, it is much easier to explain the 50-basis point increase this time around rather than sputter later in January.

Inflation has been too high for too long; it needs to be fixed.

The BOC will most likely pause on the next setting, there is now room to allow time to monitor to see what the December 7th rate hike has done in terms of putting the brakes on inflation and help reverse it, the proof is there, we are getting close to the end.

2023 will be a difficult story regardless what direction it takes now. I am still betting on a mild recession, it will not be a long one, but it will happen, real estate is a big part of our markets, its stalled on the highway, lots of people offering a few liters of gas, but the tesla will not go, it needs a charging, so what do we do now (tow truck my friend) “oh” the regrets for buying a Tesla.

What are you looking for as an investor, the BOC rate needs to be greater than the inflation rate, it is getting closer and closer now and markets have already factored in today’s new BOC rate and shaken it off, as they will the next one in March 2023.

Markets will climb over the next few months, maybe a little slower than we would like, but they will keep climbing North Bound and that is where we need to be.

Do not allow yourself to be left out of the markets, a little turbulence is normal but we are headed in the right direction, get in touch with your financial advisor if you use them, standing alone with your hands in your empty pockets looking up at the sky is not a good feeling. Stay invested, stay focused and allow the markets to work for you. We have gone through six months or so of downside and mixed emotions, hoping none of you have cashed out along the way, it is a market thing that happens and you always need to factor it in for the long term.

Home ownership is kaput for a few years, markets will win out in the end, it always does. Our housing market is broken. The cost-of-living crisis has only exacerbated this problem, as lenders are more careful when taking longer term affordability into account.

Home prices will continue to drop, slide, and tumble for the balance of 2023 and part of 2024. You will see a minor spike come spring, but do not get misled into thinking the recovery has started.

The rise in the BOC rate again today, will send the rates off the chart for the average worker under a mortgage, let us hope you are locked in and can avoid all this rate increase pain being handed out, at midnight tonight, the banks are quick to shut down any loses, they will squeeze every dime out of you that they can on a variable.

Quote of the day: Politicians attend dinners at hotels, bankers discuss interest rate hikes at luncheons, do you think the bankers and politicians pay for their own meals.

#33 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.07.22 at 1:09 pm

18 Jason on 12.07.22 at 12:23 pm
Just a note Garth that the information in the blog is very much appreciated. But I don’t think we give enough kudos to you for your writing. Your words are chosen well, and clearly you’ve demonstrated it doesn’t take you long to put thoughts to page. Thanks again for all your work helping us folks with financial literacy and being entertaining at the same time!
——————————
Ditto.
The main reason I come here.
The Nobel Prize for Literature, or at least the Booker should be forthcoming soon.

#34 Captain Uppa on 12.07.22 at 1:12 pm

“…Again, this puts the market at risk for a crash depending on the amount of distressed volume at play. And we are getting to the point where we are about to find out.”

Wait, what?! Are we not even at the point of where people are distressed?

Oh boy. I wonder how those large HELOC balances are getting paid.

#35 Tony on 12.07.22 at 1:17 pm

The Canadian dollar will suffer next year if the Bank of Canada doesn’t move in lockstep with the Fed funds rate. That would drive inflation higher in Canada.

#36 Lord Garth of Izar on 12.07.22 at 1:25 pm

What’s changed. 99% of young Canadians can’t afford a home to raise a family. That’s been the case for at least 15 years.

You seem to be suffering from some delusion that Canada is still a legitimate country.

Funny

#37 Another Deckchair on 12.07.22 at 1:25 pm

@ 1 TurnerNation from yesterday

Oxford is right. It’s not about tracking/restricting traffic, but the opposite – letting people and goods actually move.

It’s about moving people, or allowing them to move themselves. The roads are nuts, and getting more and more useless. (I’ve lived/worked and visited family in GB and Northern Europe for 50+ years, and one sees changes over that time)

What we are seeing is attempts to end congestion and give the cities back to the people. Cars (IC or electric or…) in densely packed areas have had their time, and have to go. They take too much room for the benefits they give. Simple as that.

It will, and will continue to be, a direction here in cities in Canada, too. Cities here are being densified, but the roads aren’t keeping up – and will not be. We all love our cars, but they are killing the planet, and killing our cities. Sigh. Yes, I do like driving, especially on quiet country roads :-(

#38 Faron on 12.07.22 at 1:28 pm

#35 Tony on 12.07.22 at 1:17 pm
The Canadian dollar will suffer next year if the Bank of Canada doesn’t move in lockstep with the Fed funds rate. That would drive inflation higher in Canada.

Given the coming debt ceiling and that US debt is AA+ while Canada’s is AAA, I think there’s room for a spread in the two countries yield curves.

#39 Tony on 12.07.22 at 1:32 pm

Re: #19 Brett in Calgary on 12.07.22 at 12:27 pm

As more and more people retire they’ll make a lot more money as interest rates rise. That’s the trend and this will counteract deflation.

#40 Summertime on 12.07.22 at 1:32 pm

#29 Joseph R. on 12.07.22 at 12:59 pm

So you are saying that these supposedly smart people can not predict what the results from their monetary policies will be… even approximately… but people should trust them, trust in what exactly?

The guy said that no rate hikes is in the cards any time soon.

And then increased rates by 1600 %…

If this is not the very definition of incompetency, I don’t know what is.

Plus if you consider the real inflation, firmly in double digits IHMO thing become even more weird and scary.

Snake oil salesmen is my diagnosis.
I wont go into stronger words like mentally deranged/retarded, not yet.

#41 Mr Canada on 12.07.22 at 1:34 pm

2022 saw 7 rate hikes – a record. For 2023, it will cool inflation but there is no such thing as a soft landing. Problem: BOC is still determined to get to 2% inflation, we are at 6.9% inflation now with an overnight rate of 4.25%. If inflation just levels off to say 5% after a rate pause, rates still have to go up another 1.0-1.5 points for any hope for achieve 2% inflation. I don’t see any desire for our PM to reduce spending. Former Liberal Finance Minister Manley was on BNN today and said you cannot drive a car with one foot on the gas pedal (Justin/Singh) and one foot on the brake (BOC). Rates will go higher, remember, the BOC said this was transitionary and promised no rate hikes until 2023/2024.

#42 Sean on 12.07.22 at 1:34 pm

> This is what the central bank is facing. Disaster if the tightening continues.

Couple of us have said this several times this and last year. I think I even mentioned there’s no way they’d raise interest rates beyond 4-5%.

And gold has done very well this year. I won’t encourage anyone to buy it, but everyone should ask themselves why. Things are looking shaky, and gold doesn’t. Fiat is losing value and gold isn’t. Cryptos went down and gold didn’t. Gold bugs may be onto something.

#43 Russ on 12.07.22 at 1:35 pm

.
A little light offering to help any “bad dog!” get a better outlook on life and bring a smile to your day.

Jann Arden and young friends:
https://youtu.be/8GzLHgdz4ag

Cheers, R
NB, I see the day has already started back east… I’m having first coffee of the morning

#44 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 1:41 pm

I lived in the GTA in the mid 80s working for Ontario Hydro. It was considered a high paying job but I still lived in a terrible rental in Scarborough. I would have loved to live inner city but it was unaffordable. I interviewed and accepted an offer with Lavalin and was relocated to Calgary in October of 1988. I bought a small home in the beautiful inner city neighborhood of Briar Hill for half the cost of what similar would cost in Toronto. It was a 15 min train commute to work. My income was immediately 30% higher, my job satisfaction was greater, over all cost of living much lower and quality of life much much higher. I never regretted moving for a minute. I found the Calgary winters easier to deal with and the summers better. The fall is obviously nicer in Ontario. The only thing I missed were going to Jays games and some downtown theatre. It turned out I got to do more of that on frequent Toronto business trips. Calgary has matured a lot since the 80s. I like city life and YYC offers everything I enjoy with most of it walkable. The 1000 km of easy to access bicycle trails doesn’t hurt either.

The point is don’t be afraid to relocate. It’s better than anchoring your self financially to over priced gloomy cities. The math still works in Alberta.

#45 Blobby on 12.07.22 at 1:41 pm

Surely its all down to what the Americans do?

If they keep raising their rates, we have to follow or the CAD will tank?

#46 renter in Surrey on 12.07.22 at 1:44 pm

Yet RE prices are still way higher than pre-pandemic
and 3x – 4x times higher from time of this site going online…

#47 Citizen in Kelowna on 12.07.22 at 1:46 pm

Things are slowing down in Kelowna. Over the past few years the city has really been a draw for migration from other cities across Canada. This has driven a ton of development, we are the fasted growing CMA in Canada.

Therefore, although we are slowing there are many hammers still swinging in all our boroughs. We are not as dependent on average families for development, wealthy ones migrating and developers building stratas and for-rent housing are a big factor here.

We love our city! We are blessed to live in such a beautiful place.

#48 "NUTS!" on 12.07.22 at 1:57 pm

Is it me, or are the posts on here getting so long they’re ridiculous. People are writing dissertations on here.

#49 Balmuto on 12.07.22 at 2:01 pm

Unemployment is low: that’s the cornerstone of the bull thesis on the economy.

But is unemployment low because the economy is so healthy? Or because there are structural problems (e.g. aging population) in today’s economy that are creating chronic labour shortages?

And while it’s true that employed people spend more than unemployed people, we were near full employment before rates shot up anyways.

But if those same employed people are spending more on interest payments, they have less to spend on everything else. It all adds up to less consumer spending as higher rates take their toll, and we’re starting to see signs of that happening:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/12/07/wells-fargo-bofa-ceos-say-consumer-demand-is-cooling-recession-looms.html

#50 Joseph R on 12.07.22 at 2:11 pm

#40 Summertime on 12.07.22 at 1:32 pm
#29 Joseph R. on 12.07.22 at 12:59 pm

So you are saying that these supposedly smart people can not predict what the results from their monetary policies will be… even approximately… but people should trust them, trust in what exactly?

The guy said that no rate hikes is in the cards any time soon.

And then increased rates by 1600 %…

If this is not the very definition of incompetency, I don’t know what is.

—————————————————
As per DV posted link:

“The country’s economy won’t fully absorb slack before 2023, keeping inflation below the 2 per cent target over that time, the central bank said in new quarterly forecasts released separately. It reiterated its commitment to keeping the overnight rate near zero until the slack is absorbed and inflation is sustainably at target.”

They predicted the need to keep rates low until 2023, bearing inflation under 2%. Of course, that prediction was wrong since people started spending much money quickly when the last COVID-related restrictions were lifted. And they needed to act more rapidly than they initially predicted.

Not acting on this new evidence would have been incompetence.

It’s common sense.

What do you mean by “real” inflation? Is there a “false” inflation?

#51 TalkingPie on 12.07.22 at 2:18 pm

#36 Lord Garth of Izar on 12.07.22 at 1:25 pm
What’s changed. 99% of young Canadians can’t afford a home to raise a family. That’s been the case for at least 15 years.

You seem to be suffering from some delusion that Canada is still a legitimate country.

Funny
********************************************

When you say 99% of young Canadians, what you mean is that the typical young Canadian in the GTA and Vancouver can’t afford a house with a backyard. Real estate prices are a problem in Canada, no question, but there’s no reason to get silly with hyperbole.

Or you can keep complaining while my millennial spouse and I, with very normal incomes, keep enjoying our modest 2,400 sq ft house on a half acre, less than an hour away from the center of Canada’s second largest city, that we bought for $350k in 2018.

#52 Shawn on 12.07.22 at 2:22 pm

Interesting Interest Rates

“It signals a pause in rate-humping will soon arrive after the country has endured a 1,600% increase.”

******************
We’s up 4 percentage points, which sounds a little less dramatic.

5 year Canada yield just ducked its head back under 3.0%. If the banks now drop 5 year mortgage rates or offer you a good rate this might be a good time to lock in a 5 year if you were thinking of doing that.

What crazy institutional investors are locking in for 5 years at 3.0% on their investments? Do they expect it to dip below that so they get a capital gain? Oh well not so long ago the same ninnies were buying these at as low as 0.4%. Compete and utter stupidity. Stupid is as stupid does.

If Bank of Canada is sitting a pile of 5 year government bonds, now would be an opportune time to sell. The Federal government is indemnifying them on capital losses so no need to worry about that.

The feds are NOT indemnifying on interest rate losses, but all the bank of Canada has to do is lower the rate they pay on the deposits of the commercial banks. They can do that while keeping the bank of Canada rate at 4.25%.

#53 leebow on 12.07.22 at 2:28 pm

Unfortunately everyone will pay for the excesses. Some will pay in the form of RE losses, others will lose to inflation, capital misallocation and underpeforming economy.

#54 Wrk.dover on 12.07.22 at 2:29 pm

What happened last time he indicated no future hikes?

Anyone?

#55 Wait There on 12.07.22 at 2:35 pm

The CBs s_rewed up the last time and they are doing it again. Mediocrity at its finest.

#56 Broader Mind on 12.07.22 at 2:36 pm

And yet the Canadian 5 year bond yield just keeps falling. Can’t even hold 3% so mortgage deals will follow. Makes no sense whatsoever.

#57 ElGatoNeroYVR on 12.07.22 at 2:41 pm

#71 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.06.22 at 8:09 pm
++++
Everyone has a human right to shelter.
+++
Hell even Communist Russia, China and Cuba back in the “good old days ” of totalitarianism allowed people access to “communal housing”
The result?
No one looked after their homes.
They all became paint peeling, rat infested, shitholes…
====
You are correct, Those were no different than the low-income subsidized housing we have here in BC.
Ofcourse even in socialist countries some people were more equal than others and those particular subdivisions and buildings were completely different.
All you needed was a good job and knowing whom to ahem “contribute to their life satisfaction”.One also had the opportunity to buy in new build areas,those still stand today (40-50 years later) in quite decent condition.
I was a building manager here in BC at one point in my distant past and fully agree that subsidized/social housing ,while desperately needed is not condusive to a bright future and decent long term living conditions ,no mattter in what state it is when the tenant moves in.

#58 Dogman01 on 12.07.22 at 2:42 pm

#44 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 1:41 pm

“The math still works in Alberta!”

Should be on all the Alberta promotion materials.

———————————————-

#41 Mr Canada on 12.07.22 at 1:34 pm

Former Liberal Finance Minister Manley was on BNN today and said you cannot drive a car with one foot on the gas pedal (Justin/Singh) and one foot on the brake (BOC).

————————————————–
Justin Trudeau Has Systematically Dismantled The Once Great Liberal Party – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBVwiIcIwqM

More and more centrist Liberals very concerned about the cult of personality of their party that is not longer concerned with “peace , order and good government”.

Mark my words – Trudeau has done so much damage to the fabric of Canada that I see a breakup in my lifetime.

#59 Brett in Calgary on 12.07.22 at 2:46 pm

Could be, but in my opinion that would require an economy that can support higher interest rates. My view is that ours cannot.
—————
#39 Tony on 12.07.22 at 1:32 pm
Re: #19 Brett in Calgary on 12.07.22 at 12:27 pm

As more and more people retire they’ll make a lot more money as interest rates rise. That’s the trend and this will counteract deflation.

#60 al on 12.07.22 at 3:00 pm

The BOC coming to the rescue of the housing sector even though inflation is still way high and monthly carrying costs have yet to decline. I guess your BIL was right all along.

#61 Ole doberman on 12.07.22 at 3:13 pm

Nothing will matter soon WW3 has begun:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/war/ukraine-strikes-moscow-airport-expanding-the-war/

There is no possible way to now avoid World War III. Ukraine has launched drones to attack Russian airfields making this a direct war with Russia supported by the United States, the EU, and NATO. It looks like our insane leaders who refuse to simply comply with the Minsk Agreement and allow the Donbas to declare their own independence will engulf the entire world in war just as the assassination of the Archduke in 1914.

#62 Flop… on 12.07.22 at 3:15 pm

Flop Drops.

A while back someone asked will Santa get me a 850k house in White Rock, I said not this year.

I’ve seen better value in the nearby Ocean Park and King George Corridor but the are not as revered as The Rock.

Let’s have a look at the bottom rung of White Rock detached.

The details…

Asked 1.18

Assessment 1.18

Just sold for 1.06

So they asked for the recommended retail price, the market said no but don’t recall anything in this area going for below a million yet.

The other side of Highway 99, where the trouble makers live, no problem,bid less than a million without blowback.

Just don’t pee on the electric fence…

M48BC

https://www.zealty.ca/mls-R2728880/14750-VINE-AVENUE-White-Rock-BC/

#63 Crystal ball futurist on 12.07.22 at 3:20 pm

Love the chart.

The red has to meet the blue for a saner world :)

#64 Bank Roller on 12.07.22 at 3:24 pm

Never Pay More Than You Can Afford to Lose.
Sadly many are finding out why now.
It is only sticks, dirt and drywall.
Buy 20 houses in the USA for the same money you waste on one house in Canada
Cash 20 American $$ rent checks every month instead of just one in Canada.
Now you understand why we dumped all our overpriced Canadian real estate 20 years ago.
Buy in USA. Rent in Canada.

#65 SHANE GALLANT on 12.07.22 at 3:29 pm

They will be dropping in the spring you watch!

Not a chance. – Garth

#66 Overheardyou on 12.07.22 at 3:47 pm

Seems if RE seriously collapses, we’re going back to 2% rates to bring it right back up then

#67 Faron on 12.07.22 at 3:55 pm

#58 Dogman01 on 12.07.22 at 2:42 pm
#44 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 1:41 pm

“The math still works in Alberta!”

Should be on all the Alberta promotion materials

Shawn, how about a face tattoo?

#68 Shawn on 12.07.22 at 4:00 pm

Inflation?

#39 Tony on 12.07.22 at 1:32 pm
Re: #19 Brett in Calgary on 12.07.22 at 12:27 pm

As more and more people retire they’ll make a lot more money as interest rates rise. That’s the trend and this will counteract deflation.

***************************************
An old man’s higher interest income is a Young man’s higher interest expense. So not sure that leads to higher spending and inflation.

The old farts don’t spend as much and the young will have nothing left for discretionary spending.

Actually this could lead to lower interest rates under the laws of supply and demand to the extent that law applies in lending. The old farts already loading up on 5 year bonds at 3% it seems?

#69 jess on 12.07.22 at 4:02 pm

AI writing tools content creators so can the bot sue for plagerism lol

AI writing assistant churns out blog posts, reviews, company descriptions

OpenAI for access to GPT-3:
a GPT-3 powered tool that claims its essays can pass the plagiarism checkers used by schools and universities.
access to GPT-3: the rate of the most popular model is about $US0.06 per 750 words.
GPT-3 AI universally available for developers.
—————————————————————–

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/bill/C-18/first-reading

#70 Yorkville Renter on 12.07.22 at 4:04 pm

As someone with a family income north of $220k/year, I’m wondering if my expectations are off or if people are indeed crazy to spend so much money on where they live.

my rent-controlled condo has spoiled me.

#71 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 4:21 pm

#65 Faron on 12.07.22 at 3:55 pm
#58 Dogman01 on 12.07.22 at 2:42 pm
#44 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 1:41 pm

“The math still works in Alberta!”

Should be on all the Alberta promotion materials

Shawn, how about a face tattoo?
###########
Like the ones you see running around downtown Victoria. Very cool.

#72 jim on 12.07.22 at 4:26 pm

@ #10 Balmuto

A pause is not enough, Tiff is going to have to start cutting if he wants to save the housing market.

**********

The cost of money is not the problem…the high cost of housing is the problem now.

We have prime 1% house prices (and falling) colliding with 6.45% prime.

Mr. market says asking prices have to fall…and they will.

#73 Shawn on 12.07.22 at 4:35 pm

#64 Bank Roller on 12.07.22 at 3:24 pm

Now you understand why we dumped all our overpriced Canadian real estate 20 years ago.
Buy in USA. Rent in Canada.

*******************************
So, you sold 19 years too early then?

But seriously good for you if you invest in U.S. real estate. The vast majority of people would have absolutely no clue or ability to get into owning U.S. rental real estate directly like that.

And you may as well go big or stay home. Not worth the hassle and income tax complexity for one rental property.

My sister took it a step further. Leave Nova Scotia backwater at a young age. Live and work in the U.S. Become dual citizen. Created a Florida outpost for the extended family back here. Me I moved to Edmonton. Strangely, the family prefers the Florida outpost to the Edmonton out post.

#74 The real Kip (Ret) on 12.07.22 at 4:44 pm

The incentive is still to borrow more. Macklem and company have done little to bring down inflation with policies that created the problem. 6.9% is a long way from 2%.

#75 Dolce Vita on 12.07.22 at 4:45 pm

#29 Joseph R.

Nothing will change my mind. They do as they please.

I mean you know, inflation was double their 2% in mid 2021, had already catapulted there by early 2021, click 5Y

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/inflation-cpi

And of course, they sat there fat, dumb and happy and did nothing until March 2, 2022 where, heaven forbid, they raised rates to a bone crushing 0.5% – nearly ONE YEAR LATER when the cat was already out of the bag

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/core-functions/monetary-policy/key-interest-rate/

There, now you have 2 instances, incl. my prior comment, why what they say and what they do are 2 different things and WHY I would not bank dwell on every vowel or consonant they publish nor admonish between prior and current statements on rates.

——————

Personally, I am grateful to Uncle Tiffy as he has allowed the Cdn $ to tank vs. the US $ by about 9% in the last 6 months, 12% last week.

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/USD-CAD?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKhKWWu-j7AhXH8bsIHeNLCZYQmY0JegQICBAc&window=6M

thus, me an my US $ Dividends are grateful to him for the BUMP.

It will get larger again (today: US Prime 7%, Cdn Prime 6.45%) once Lord of the World Powell raises their rate.

#76 Yukon Elvis on 12.07.22 at 4:51 pm

#67 Faron on 12.07.22 at 3:55 pm
#58 Dogman01 on 12.07.22 at 2:42 pm
#44 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 1:41 pm

“The math still works in Alberta!”

Should be on all the Alberta promotion materials

Shawn, how about a face tattoo?
++++++++
No problem as long as it is on your face. Lots of volunteers here to help hold you down.

#77 Dolce Vita on 12.07.22 at 4:58 pm

#29 Joseph R.

‘Smart people change their minds and goals when presented with new evidence: in this case, inflation was creeping up in 2021-22.”

As from my last comment avec charts you will have come to realize the your “creeping up” was Sci-Fi prose. Try catapulting up. Double there acceptable rate of inflation.

Thus using your logic, BoC,

no so smart

and again, my plumped up US $ dividends are VERY grateful to the Greater Fools.

I plan to send Uncle Tiffy a XMas Card this year.

#78 Victor Llearna on 12.07.22 at 5:00 pm

Too bad Tiff blinked. those sheep stupid enough to buy those sky high priced houses should loose their shirts. (or at least all their wool)

#79 Balmuto on 12.07.22 at 5:12 pm

“#58 Dogman01 on 12.07.22 at 2:42 pm
#41 Mr Canada on 12.07.22 at 1:34 pm
Justin Trudeau Has Systematically Dismantled The Once Great Liberal Party – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBVwiIcIwqM”

Well, there you have it. The Liberal Party is finished.

From no less a party luminary than…(checks notes)…Dan McTeague?

#80 JPN on 12.07.22 at 5:24 pm

#47 Citizen in Kelowna

So nice to see another appreciate our fantastic place on earth. Often I read Kelowna in the peep sights on Garths Blog. Many have asperations of moving here and hope for the some form of a “crash”. Its not always about how much money you save, quality of life is very important. There are less expensive places to live. Its a lifestyle choice. For this reason in itself is why we are not as vulnerable as other locations. (I’m sure this will get some stirred up)

#81 Doug t on 12.07.22 at 5:32 pm

#76 yukon elvis

I have a buddy with a full skull tat – said it was like having a mini jackhammer inside your head

#82 Doug t on 12.07.22 at 5:37 pm

Dont stop now Tiffy – do another hike in the new year

#83 Figus Makum on 12.07.22 at 5:43 pm

#61 Ole Doberman

Bullocks!

#84 Saint Herb on 12.07.22 at 5:44 pm

“and the runway for that soft landing is indeed in sight.”

I thought a soft landing was never achieved by anyone who ever tried. Is it really going to be different this time?

Is our crazy RE market going to survive the crazy inflation and tightening cycle too.

What happened to the CB not carrying about a few fools who bought in the overheated frenzy and caring only about getting inflation under control!

I want them to CRUSH this RE market once and for all.

#85 Broader Mind on 12.07.22 at 5:45 pm

For #52 Shawn Just who in your right mind do you think is buying bonds sub 3% . Just a hint BOC. They own almost half the float. No one in the free market is buying 5 year 2.9% bonds with 7% inflation.

#86 RBC Data on 12.07.22 at 5:47 pm

Did you see?

Growth in rentership is now strongest among baby boomers!

https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/proof-point-is-canada-becoming-a-nation-of-renters/

HILARIOUS!

So they dump their overpriced houses onto horny millennial, who take on the pile of debt to live free in their rented unit with no worries.

DUMB MILLENNIALS! You’ve been had!

Now that interest rates are going up…PAY UP!

#87 DC on 12.07.22 at 5:47 pm

Two years ago, Stacked restaurants had an early bird breakfast special for 4.99 now it is 6.99. That is a 40% rise in 2 years. That averages out to 20% price inflation per annum. I’d say there is plenty of room to the upside for raising rates.

—————————————

The other day we wandered down to our town’s quaint main street for some breakfast. We entered a well known establishment at 9:00 AM. How many others were seated? Zero. The place was completely empty! The waitress attempted to blame the overcast weather. Tough times for many Canadians, and likely to get a whole lot worse.

BTW, the breakfast was very good, although a bit pricier than most places by a couple of bucks.

#88 Catalyst on 12.07.22 at 5:55 pm

Right when I thought we were going to get a kingston article, we get kelowna :(

#89 Nonplused on 12.07.22 at 6:05 pm

Maybe Tiff does pause. It might be prudent to see what’s happening. Same as you don’t just slam on the brakes when the road is covered in snow.

But he will be somewhat constrained by what Powell does. I don’t believe that Tiff is completely unconcerned about the exchange rate. Certainly he knows that this factors into Canadian inflation too.

But maybe everybody pauses to let the dust settle and see where we are at. I think that might be wise. But that doesn’t put the short term outlook at 2% inflation and 2% five year mortgages any time soon. If anybody is hoping for that, they better get a plan B.

Instead, we are probably looking at inflation gradually coming down over a period that may last years before it gets back to the magic 2%. Meanwhile interest rates stay where they are or edge up in a less dramatic fashion. Cuts can’t really be entertained until inflation is solidly on the way to 2%. We haven’t seen that yet.

But houses will not go to zero. There are always buyers. It is a question of price. They aren’t FTT tokens. They don’t disappear with the exchange. Or when somebody turns off the power. Even without power, a house is better than no house.

Anyway, today’s chart is nice. All you need is a ruler to figure out about when, or more accurately “where” price-wise, it’ll be safe to be a buyer again. It is “somewhere” around 2015. If the market turns out to be symmetrical, the next time will be round about 2029. That’s not really that far off.

#90 Shawn on 12.07.22 at 6:30 pm

Who’s buying 5 year Canada Bonds under 3.0%?

#86 Broader Mind on 12.07.22 at 5:45 pm

For #52 Shawn Just who in your right mind do you think is buying bonds sub 3% . Just a hint BOC. They own almost half the float. No one in the free market is buying 5 year 2.9% bonds with 7% inflation.

********************************
Great point. But do they really own half the float? Wow! Source?

And that buying was a while ago. The Bank of Canada is not buying those bonds lately. Their balance sheet is coming down pretty fast. Apparently just with bonds maturing not selling bonds yet.

But someone bought some of those bonds today and this past month. Who? Why? It’s completely false to say no one in the free market is buying.

Here the bank of Canada’s shriveling balance sheet. Assets are down by 28% from the peak! And no, it’s not gone down due to capital value losses. Those are indemnified by government of Canada.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/banking-and-financial-statistics/bank-of-canada-assets-and-liabilities-weekly-formerly-b2/

#91 Can't avoid politics on 12.07.22 at 6:33 pm

#61 Ole doberman on 12.07.22 at 3:13 pm
Nothing will matter soon WW3 has begun:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/war/ukraine-strikes-moscow-airport-expanding-the-war/

There is no possible way to now avoid World War III. Ukraine has launched drones to attack Russian airfields making this a direct war with Russia supported by the United States, the EU, and NATO. It looks like our insane leaders who refuse to simply comply with the Minsk Agreement and allow the Donbas to declare their own independence will engulf the entire world in war just as the assassination of the Archduke in 1914.

———————————–

This comments section is better when we all stay off speculative political subjects. It’s not that they aren’t important to people, but they are off subject and subjective. And no, I am not trying to sweep aside anyone’s previous behavior or comments, but instead trying to “go your (or my) way and sin no more”.

I hear Twitter is open for business on that side of things again….

#92 I don’t know on 12.07.22 at 6:39 pm

The 50 beeps rate hike was expected universally. No news there.

What is news is that the terminal rate is close, if not here already. It’s a smart, prudent move by the BoC.

Regardless of what the burn-it-all-down folks say (really just jealousy, cynicism and greed), there is no need to hammer the economy into submission. Central banks have done that in the past, and the wounds are still being felt today (particularly for the average person, worker, or small business).

It’s an unfortunate situation. Housing affordability will continue to deteriorate. That much is a given. Who is buying? Not the average family. The average family is trying to stay above water. Who is buying? People who have owned a while and have equity, DINK professionals, and wealthy investors.

Have extra cash? Now is a good time to put it to use. Stocks, real estate…doesn’t matter. All you have to see is the amount of moaning and fear mongering around to see why. Contrary to what some may think, there won’t ever be a giant “all clear” sign. Market bottoms are only recognized in hindsight.

IDK

#93 Jeff Bush on 12.07.22 at 6:42 pm

When do I buy bonds and how long should I hold them? Duration 7 years.

#94 Shawn on 12.07.22 at 6:47 pm

$6.99 breakfast is inflation?

#88 DC on 12.07.22 at 5:47 pm
Two years ago, Stacked restaurants had an early bird breakfast special for 4.99 now it is 6.99. That is a 40% rise in 2 years. That averages out to 20% price inflation per annum.

********************************
Come-on! $6.99 was cheap for breakfast in a sit-down restaurant 30 years ago! $6.99 is stupid cheap today. $4.99 is beyond stupid cheap. A recipe to go broke in a hurry for the restaurant.

#95 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.07.22 at 7:06 pm

@#23 dave
“When is the stock market going to see green?
Its red every other day!!!”
++++
Red and green; Christmas season.

@#48 NUTS
“Is it me, or are the posts on here getting so long they’re ridiculous. People are writing dissertations on here.”
++++
Yup.

@#58 Dogman1
“More and more centrist Liberals very concerned about the cult of personality of their party that is not longer concerned with “peace , order and good government”.

Mark my words – Trudeau has done so much damage to the fabric of Canada that I see a breakup in my lifetime.”

+++
Just as long as Trudeau and his endless apologies go with him.
It might be worth the disassembly of the country.
Do our grandchildren get to throw red paint and decapitate his statues?
Fair is fair.

@#87 RBC Data.
“So they dump their overpriced houses onto horny millennial, who take on the pile of debt to live free in their rented unit with no worries.”

++++
No one said life was fair.
Blame Trudeau.

#96 The Original Jake on 12.07.22 at 7:12 pm

#10 Balmuto
“A pause is not enough, Tiff is going to have to start cutting if he wants to save the housing market.”

Since when is working to bring down crushing inflation only about the housing market? Real estate buyers have had the punch bowl in front of them for over 20 years now with dirt cheap financing. We may get a pause early next year, but after the FED/BoC realize how stubborn inflation is, the increases resume in 1/4 pt measures.

We’re still not even back to pre-pandemic pricing. Anyone who bought at the apex, well too bad. No one ever shed a tear for an equity I over paid for. Why do greedy homeowners/specuinvestors get a pass?

#97 BAGHOLDER on 12.07.22 at 7:17 pm

FOR ALL THE SORRY SOULS WHO WONDER WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO 2 MILLION DOLLAR MORTGAGE ON A 1.6 MILLION AND DROPPING VANCOUVER OR TORONO HOME. DO LIKE THE FOREIGNERS – GO TO ANOTHER MUCH CHEAPER HOUSING MARKET AND EXPLOIT IT – E.G WASHINGTON, MICHIGAN, OHIO, NEW YORK, PENNSLYVANIA – LETS SEE HOW FAR YPU GET – BECAUSE THE AMERICAN BANKS AND LAWS ARE MUCH BETTER AND CATCH THE FUNNY APPRAISALS AND RIDICULOUS VCALUATIONS. ONLY IDIOTS OVERPAY FOR HOMES AND CONDOS. PAY THE LEAST TO GET THE MOST. START THINKING LIKE A BUSINESS PERSON INSTEAD OF A WET BEHIND THE EARS TEENAGER AT A LOVE SHOP

#98 Ronaldo on 12.07.22 at 7:31 pm

#95 Shawn on 12.07.22 at 6:47 pm
$6.99 breakfast is inflation?

#88 DC on 12.07.22 at 5:47 pm
Two years ago, Stacked restaurants had an early bird breakfast special for 4.99 now it is 6.99. That is a 40% rise in 2 years. That averages out to 20% price inflation per annum.

********************************
Come-on! $6.99 was cheap for breakfast in a sit-down restaurant 30 years ago! $6.99 is stupid cheap today. $4.99 is beyond stupid cheap. A recipe to go broke in a hurry for the restaurant.
————————————————————-
Heck, a 6″ deluxe pizza sub will cost you that much. Cheap is right for a sit down breakfast.

#99 David Green on 12.07.22 at 7:35 pm

Sounds like a great place. Was it named after the waitresses?

===================================
#21 Steven Rowlandson on 12.07.22 at 12:30 pm

Two years ago, Stacked restaurants had an early bird breakfast special for 4.99

#100 The Gold standard on 12.07.22 at 7:37 pm

I heard that everyone in Kelowna is a millionaire.

#101 canuck on 12.07.22 at 7:39 pm

You tire pumpers preaching about a soft landing can blow it our your backside. What people believe ends up happening due to their beliefs and people believe we’re in real trouble and they have little faith for next year.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/most-canadians-concerned-canada-will-face-recession-next-year

#102 The Gold Standard on 12.07.22 at 7:40 pm

I have no debt. I’d like to see the bank rate at 10% and it should be there now anyways.

#103 It used to be a good place to live on 12.07.22 at 7:52 pm

Kelowna is having a rough ride.

They make the 2022 list as worst city for crime in all of Canada.

This, after they transform the place into Vancouver with 10 people now sharing a house as that is the only way to afford rent. Just like places such as Langley.

Now, the ex mayor who was just ousted in the recent election and was running the Vision Vancouver style development push to put up condo towers everywhere just had charges laid against him.

Homeless spilling out onto the streets everywhere.

Impossible to recruit people to the area anymore.

I closed my business in town last year. No workers, break ins everyday. Too much crime very low reward.

Thankless place to be combined with unhealthy wildfire smoke all summer…and now all winter as they burn over the winter to create controlled burn areas for upcoming fire seasons. So, basically fire season year round now.

#104 Steve on 12.07.22 at 8:02 pm

Kingston, London, Kelowna, Victoria, Fraser Valley, GTA…lookout below.

And then there are all these smaller areas (small towns) not even being talked about where home prices have hit a million dollars.

Unreal how far we have gone on a debt binge.

I think they will start cutting rates as things start breaking, because there is a big tidal wave of financial ruin coming.

#105 Flop… on 12.07.22 at 8:03 pm

Got any Developer buddies coming over for Christmas?

Put on Bing Crosby, fine, but if it’s the wrong one you’ll get a Turkey drumstick upside your head.

White Christmas?

Forget about it, only one tune they’re interested in hearing.

Don’t Fence Me In.

It’s been done by Bing Crosby, Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald among others.

Doug Ford Development Choir is about to release their version anyday now.

Could be number one again for the holidays.

Hit it.

Oh give me land, lots of land, and the starry skies above.

Don’t fence me in…

M48BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMnLoOnrwbg

#106 The Honest Realtor on 12.07.22 at 8:06 pm

I used to live in Vancouver and can honestly say, it was the best place on earth to live.

I live in Kelowna now and I have to be even more honest. This is the best place on earth to live.

There has never been a better time to buy a place in Kelowna. I wouldn’t wait.

#107 BC Renter on 12.07.22 at 8:09 pm

My union just voted in a 14% raise over 3-years.

They said this is historic and a massive bump in pay.

Looking at this chart. We should have negotiated a 144% raise, not 14%.

I am truly screwed trying to afford this province. Good luck having any money left over to invest. My rent steals all of my money that I earn.

#108 Ronaldo on 12.07.22 at 8:12 pm

Speaking of housing prices in Vancouver I know of 1 house, a new build, that was purchased at the end of 2016 for $3.55 million that has only risen in price as of assessment July 1/21 by 4.5% to $3.71 million. Previous year assessment July 1/20 was $3.5 million which was less than purchase price. I suspect that the value is likely once again below the original purchase price. Zero growth in 6 years. Not a great investment. The seller though, made out like a bandit.

I know of another in same area that sold at end of 2016 for $1.875 mil and currently assessed at $2.08 mil. and that is after a major reno was done on the place. That is an 11% increase over 6 years. I suspect that the price now would likely be back to original selling price. So this buyer would be underwater by the amount of his reno’s and more. No gain on that one either.

I believe that would be the case for many of the high end homes in the area. Big gains though in the hi-rise condo markets which are still selling in the $1100 per s.f. range.

So looking at this as an example, even those who purchased 6 years ago are going to get hit hard with these rising interest rates.

#109 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.07.22 at 8:25 pm

@#104 Used to be a nice place
“Thankless place to be combined with unhealthy wildfire smoke all summer…and now all winter as they burn over the winter to create controlled burn areas for upcoming fire seasons. So, basically fire season year round now.”

+++
Look on the bright side.
We can send you our salmon and you can just hang it out to smoke.
Free smoked salmon!

#110 Stan on 12.07.22 at 8:30 pm

People have to understand the one single reason why real estate in places like Kelowna , Penticton, Revelstoke et al, after shooting up during ZIRP , hovers rather than collapses. It’s directly the cause of highly paid, permanently employed and lavishly pensioned civil servants. Most haven’t worked in the office for over a decade, Covid is a blip for these people. They fly to Vancouver for “meetings” .There are no jobs to support a normal demographic of new families etc. Civil servants are juiced and coddled as if in another world. That’s why, in Kelowna, you have only the wealthy civil servant and crackheads. There’s nothing in the middle.

#111 kommykim on 12.07.22 at 8:34 pm

While it may not be a crash, I’m afraid Tiff may forget to deploy the landing gear…

#112 BABY'S BUM on 12.07.22 at 8:38 pm

5 DOLLAR HEAD OF LETTUCE!!

So were going to ruin the HEALTH of 10 of millions who now can’t afford quality foods for the sake of bringing RE prices down?

The price of food isnt going down but the rich policy makers dont know this. They send their maids to go do the grocery shopping.

Time to load up on heart disease and diabetes related stocks.

#113 TurnerNation on 12.07.22 at 8:39 pm

#37 Another Deckchair on 12.07.22 at 1:25 pm

Cars are killing the planet you say? Show me one part of this county that is killed. You can’t. There is none.
It exists only on the Teevee and ONLY in the places you cannot see (Melting icecaps!) . Funny how this works. Tales of utter devastation. Anywhere but your neighborhood.

My offer stands: anyone with a cottage on a coast or waterway in Kanada I will buy it from you at 10 cents on the dollar. A VERY Generous offer, as it will be underwater soon! Inquire within.

——–

Yep yep small business owners tell me how much debt they are carrying. Add the interest rates and taxes increasing their rent.
2020 was just the start.

https://www.westernstandard.news/news/one-in-five-businesses-could-go-under-according-to-cfib/article_5d82c9ca-70cc-11ed-b08c-436d57d8aae6.html

#114 Hmm on 12.07.22 at 8:50 pm

@#78 Victor Llearna on 12.07.22 at 5:00 pm
Too bad Tiff blinked. those sheep stupid enough to buy those sky high priced houses should loose their shirts. (or at least all their wool)

++++++++++++++

rather they lose their shirts.

#115 the Jaguar on 12.07.22 at 9:00 pm

So the Bank rate went ‘up’. Yawn. What’s next? Focus people. When is the next BOC meeting? January 25th 2023. What is that? Robbie Burns Day, of course.

Anybody notice that Tiff’s last name is “Macklem”?

According to the web the Macklem name is from ” the ancestors of the ancient Scottish kingdom of Dalriada.”.

Do we even have to round up the uninformed ( so many hanging around this neighbourhood..) and introduce them to what it means to be from the Scottish Tribe and ancestry in this crazy non- sensical world? That task would be bigger than doing a bra measurement for the faux breasts of a certain Oakville school teacher. Ahem.

Just keep this in mind: Part of the Scottish Hogmanay tradition is to pay off all debts prior to January 1st. The optics on that aren’t great for most peeps.

While that may not be feasible, one more BOC rate increase wouldn’t surprise. A reminder that austerity and belt tightening won’t just be viewed in the rear view mirror of 2022. They can still squeeze in one more quarter point before the next stats come in. For ‘good measure’. Mark it on your calendars.

#116 JPN on 12.07.22 at 9:12 pm

# 104

It’s still and “always will be” a great place to live. Sorry for your loss in respect to your business. One can see you are jaded from this. Don’t take it out on our great city because it didn’t work out for you. Many, “many” are making a great living here and love the lifestyle. We have the same complexities as any larger city. Deal with it.

#117 Quintilian on 12.07.22 at 9:24 pm

The housing bubble was predicated on a perpetual existence of two incompatible and simultaneous conditions: interest rates below inflation, and a roaring economy.

The two conditions can be artificially created, and supported for, as we seen, a considerable length of time, but not forever.

Tick Tock, Tick Tock

#118 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.07.22 at 9:51 pm

@#111 Stan
” That’s why, in Kelowna, you have only the wealthy civil servant and crackheads.’
++++
If only there was a way to join the two classes of people..
Into a Middle class as it were..
Then we would have civil homeless and govt workers adept at doing anything for a buck.

#119 JPN on 12.07.22 at 9:51 pm

# 111 Stan… OMG .. for real ?

Delusional…

#120 45north on 12.07.22 at 9:56 pm

Blake Living in Kelowna now! Sold in Toronto at the peak and bought for cash a beautiful place near the downtown core. There was such a frenzy the developer sold out. He decided to build 13 units and sell them after they were finished for more profit. All 13 are unsold at the moment, and he has closed the sales centre and laid off the salesperson. We bought for $680k a brand new build after selling out 40-year-old home in the Durham region for just shy of a million.
The developer almost doubled the sales price of our unit and now 13 sit unsold. Nobody here can afford the million dollar listings except those moving here that were selling and making bank, that’s a thing of the past it seems!

your post makes my point. I think the banks and the builders will wait for conditions to become more favourable. I mean if you’re a builder, it seems stupid to risk your company on sales which you may not get and on prices which you may not see. The builders and I suppose the banks will be under stress to keep building but if they’re smart the builders will decide not to build and the banks will decide not to lend. It’s not the sort of thing which makes the news.

Rook What have we done to ourselves?

I’d say we have a choice between two kinds of chaos. The kind of chaos you get with high inflation or the kind of chaos you get when you don’t build. I’d pick door number two.

#121 Faron on 12.07.22 at 10:16 pm

#114 TurnerNation on 12.07.22 at 8:39 pm
#37 Another Deckchair on 12.07.22 at 1:25 pm

Anywhere but your neighborhood.

LOL, wut?

What about those neighbourhoods where homes were reduced to ashes and places where fire comes earlier in Spring and lasts longer into fall. Oh, and those neighbourhoods washed away by 1 in 1000 year floods that are happening more frequently. How about the islands slipping beneath oceans? Miami’s clear sky flooding… etc.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/11/28/climate-change-from-a-to-z

#122 Ronaldo on 12.07.22 at 11:35 pm

122 Faron on 12.07.22 at 10:16 pm
#114 TurnerNation on 12.07.22 at 8:39 pm
#37 Another Deckchair on 12.07.22 at 1:25 pm

Anywhere but your neighborhood.

LOL, wut?

What about those neighbourhoods where homes were reduced to ashes and places where fire comes earlier in Spring and lasts longer into fall. Oh, and those neighbourhoods washed away by 1 in 1000 year floods that are happening more frequently. How about the islands slipping beneath oceans? Miami’s clear sky flooding… etc.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/11/28/climate-change-from-a-to-z
—————————————————————
40% of wildfires are human caused. More people more fires. The Kelowna fire was human caused. There were many more fires before humans decided it was better to put them out rather than let nature do what it is supposed to do. As a manager of a forest once said, “we got too good at putting out fires when we should have just let them burn”.

You need to relax a bit Faron. You’re going to have a nervous breakdown and what would we do without you?

Below as an interesting story on the 1910 Fires.
https://foresthistory.org/research-explore/us-forest-service-history/policy-and-law/fire-u-s-forest-service/famous-fires/the-1910-fires/

#123 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.08.22 at 12:03 am

#123 Ronaldo
I give you a red card for this stupid comment.
Stick with soccer.

#124 Tony on 12.08.22 at 12:14 am

Re: #103 The Gold Standard on 12.07.22 at 7:40 pm

There’s a very good chance interest rates would be ten percent today had America not gone off the gold standard.

#125 MalcolmM on 12.08.22 at 1:01 am

No, it does not mean that the BoC is at or near the terminal rate, it merely means they think they are. I’ve done very well as an investor ignoring the opinions of central bankers (have people forgotten that most central bankers were warning of the “risk” of deflation not long ago).

Inflation is still high and barely coming down. Inflation is entrenched and current CB policy rates are far too loose. I suggest studying how long Volker had to keep rates much higher than inflation to see how entrenched inflation can be. Volker crushed the economy and it still took years to get inflation under control.

#126 Krakathreea on 12.08.22 at 1:48 am

Kelowna???? Meh, I spent a week there one afternoon…

#127 Faron on 12.08.22 at 1:51 am

#123 Ronaldo on 12.07.22 at 11:35 pm
122 Faron on 12.07.22 at 10:16 pm
#114 TurnerNation on 12.07.22 at 8:39 pm
#37 Another Deckchair on 12.07.22 at 1:25 pm

40% of wildfires are human caused.

When this human wants to light a camp fire, he finds that dry wood is much easier to light than damp wood. Seems to be that warmer temperatures dry wood faster. I wonder if warmer, earlier spring weather, hotter summers and warmer, drier fall weather could create drier fuels and make for higher fire risks from human and natural starts?

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2019EF001210?utm_source=mp-fotoscapes

____________

You need to relax a bit Faron. You’re going to have a nervous breakdown…

I find correcting misconceptions about climate change relaxing.

#128 Faron on 12.08.22 at 2:40 am

Not only a German problem:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/germany-mass-arrests-1.6676932

Jan 6th, the attempt to abduct Gretchen Whitmer, the armed entrance to Michigan’s capital, armed amd disguised dropbox observers are all part of the same thread. Next Truxer Convoy will contain Canada’s version of these movements.

#129 Hmm on 12.08.22 at 7:26 am

The doom in here eh.
Lots of folks hoping for schadenfreude.
Strange way to live your life.

#130 Wait There on 12.08.22 at 7:40 am

We’ve seen it before over and over. Remember when the Leafs gave up multiple goals to the opposition in the last few minutes. People were heading to the exits thinking it was a slam dunk before it all changed.

It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. We are so far from the 2% it’s not funny. This is like taking three or four data points and extrapolating for the next 12. Amateurish.

#131 maxx on 12.08.22 at 7:53 am

@ #35

Completely agree – the dollar´s value needs to be restored….22 years ago. The slow and steady drop in interest rates has created one mother of an economic cancer. The road out can only be through normalization of rates and cementing them there for, perhaps ever.

Far too many people now live on credit and that impoverishes a country on so many levels. We need a rampant return to saving and prudent investing. People need to wake up to the power in their wallets and use that power to influence the price of just about anything. These days, it seems that people just pay the nut. Last week, a radio station was discussing inflation during a call-in show. The items cited as having inflated either through price or package size were cookies and biscuits. Pathetic.

Low rates have propulsed gorging on RE, and that has made governments at all levels very happy by mainlining associated taxes, but these same governments have also become wasteful. Too much of the wrong kind of money floating around city hall and the provinces. How was it that they were able to run operations better than now before the post 2000 tsunami of RE tax inflows came along? Excess taxation has led to vanity spending and stupid decisions on the really big ticket stuff.

Today, they are all screaming that there´s not enough money for services. We are taxed to the hilt, there is lottery, booze, pot and fee income galore and there is ¨no money¨???

Restore the value of money Tiff, let EVERYONE adjust and don´t wuss out ´till the job´s done.

There is no get out of jail free card.

#132 jess on 12.08.22 at 8:08 am

be critical of the people who make false claims

fraud detection AI systems- big fail

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/10/31/covid-pandemic-fraud-hits-billions-despite-deloitte-contracts-worth-hundreds-of-millions/?sh=3a601ae2669f

#133 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.08.22 at 8:12 am

@#108 BC Renter
“Looking at this chart. We should have negotiated a 144% raise, not 14%.”

+++
The higher inflation goes the more people demand in wages.
Wage and price spiral like a dog chasing its tail.
Perhaps when our dollar compares to a peso…. the talking heads in Ottawa will realize their social experiment with “the budget will balance itself” is utter BS

#134 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.08.22 at 8:27 am

Economics 101
The theory is “Short term pain for long term gain”.
Consumers are just starting the “pain” side of the equation….

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-interest-rate-hikes-1.6678050

#135 jess on 12.08.22 at 8:30 am

lagging indicator for years
systems to states across the U.S. to try to prevent Covid fraud, but nationally the losses are at $45 billion and could be as much as three times that, according to government estimates.

The Big 4 accounting giant promised states AI-powered anti-fraud detection systems in return for hundreds of millions in Covid unemployment contracts. Fraudsters abusing those same systems likely earned more, Forbes finds.

#136 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.08.22 at 8:38 am

@ Jane24

More pain in Jolly old Blighty.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bank-england-add-50-bps-bank-rate-dec-15-peak-425-q2-2022-12-08/

Time to sell the home before they raise Taxes to pay for it all.

#137 jess on 12.08.22 at 8:44 am

lawmaker in florida removed from his committee assignments, which included a spot on the House Judiciary Committee.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/07/joe-harding-federally-indicted-00072896

#138 Dharma Bum on 12.08.22 at 8:50 am

#128

” I find correcting misconceptions about climate change relaxing”.
——————————————————————————————————-

What is more worrisome?

The effects of climate change or the likelihood of another inevitable cataclysmic event altering life as we know it on earth?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190812130821.htm

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336931883_Disaster_Geoarchaeology_and_Natural_Cataclysms_in_World_Cultural_Evolution_An_Overview

I mean, it wouldn’t be the first time.

Earth survives.

Humans? Meh. In the long run, maybe. Initially, not so much.

History has taught that climate and geological mega disasters might wipe out humans, but definitely buy the planet time. Like, billions of years.

So, What? Me worry?

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fih1.redbubble.net%2Fimage.3234362732.2621%2Fur%2Cmounted_print_canvas_portrait_small_front%2Csquare%2C1000x1000.1.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redbubble.com%2Fi%2Fart-board-print%2FWhat-me-worry-Alfred-Neuman-v1-by-pepweis400%2F101632621.NVL2T&tbnid=YwkqzkHOHbQUvM&vet=12ahUKEwiWtvTQlOr7AhXOn3IEHSBmC1AQMygNegUIARDWAQ..i&docid=vaBjKWx5VuHlEM&w=1000&h=1000&q=what%20me%20worry%20mad&ved=2ahUKEwiWtvTQlOr7AhXOn3IEHSBmC1AQMygNegUIARDWAQ

#139 Toyota Financing on 12.08.22 at 9:08 am

Shopping for a car on Toyota.ca?

The financing rate displayed is 8.69%

THE PARTY IS ON!

#140 Bubbles on 12.08.22 at 10:57 am

#107 The Honest Realtor on 12.07.22 at 8:06 pm
I used to live in Vancouver and can honestly say, it was the best place on earth to live.

I live in Kelowna now and I have to be even more honest. This is the best place on earth to live.

There has never been a better time to buy a place in Kelowna. I wouldn’t wait.
————————
Good lord.
I lived in Van 30 years ago…Was virtually no crime now the wild west. What a zoo.
Then Kelowna had 2 duplexes……a zoo now with forest fires. People were nice and now a lot of attitude now.

I won’t tell you where now….sanity. Oceans and 36 lakes and your boats in the water in 10min.

Anywho..Spoken like a true Relator lol.

#141 Shawn on 12.08.22 at 11:00 am

Kelowna

#127 Krakathreea on 12.08.22 at 1:48 am
Kelowna???? Meh, I spent a week there one afternoon…

**************************
Just driving through from the airport area and through downtown and over the bridge to West kelowna takes all afternoon in the Summer.

#142 Regjeg on 12.08.22 at 11:05 am

Disturbing US labour force data signals trend change

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/no-labor-cavalry-coming-feds-rescue-data-moves-other-way-2022-12-08/

#143 NJ on 12.08.22 at 11:09 am

I think what is also scary on that chart is the average household income is basically flatlined for 20yrs lol

#144 Faron on 12.08.22 at 11:39 am

#139 Dharma Bum on 12.08.22 at 8:50 am
#128

” I find correcting misconceptions about climate change relaxing”.
——————————————————————————————————-

What is more worrisome?

False dichotomy. The fact that disasterous internal or external events wait randomly in the wings doesn’t mean we should ignore what we can control.

#145 Faron on 12.08.22 at 12:03 pm

#71 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 4:21 pm
#65 Faron on 12.07.22 at 3:55 pm
#58 Dogman01 on 12.07.22 at 2:42 pm
#44 Don Guillermo on 12.07.22 at 1:41 pm

“The math still works in Alberta!”

Should be on all the Alberta promotion materials

Shawn, how about a face tattoo?

###########

Like the ones you see running around downtown Victoria. Very cool

Yes, they both promote toxic substances.

Juuuust kidding.

Also, tattoos can’t run.

#146 WTF on 12.08.22 at 12:39 pm

Anyone who suggests prices in the LM haven’t dropped isn’t paying attention. Almost 17% YOY

https://openhousing.ca/2022/12/08/metro-vancouver-detached-prices-plummet-in-november/

#147 DON on 12.08.22 at 1:00 pm

#145 Faron on 12.08.22 at 11:39 am
#139 Dharma Bum on 12.08.22 at 8:50 am
#128

” I find correcting misconceptions about climate change relaxing”.
——————————————————————————————————-

What is more worrisome?

False dichotomy. The fact that disasterous internal or external events wait randomly in the wings doesn’t mean we should ignore what we can control.

*******
So very true…

Reminds me of the comments section most days.

#148 Noware on 12.08.22 at 2:12 pm

You must be ecstatic at the neoliberal destruction of this country. Probably salivating like a rabid dog at the thought of cheap homes and mass homelessness.

#149 c on 12.09.22 at 9:38 am

Thеre’s definately a lot to learn abоut this topic. I really ⅼіke
all tһe points you’ve made.