The snap

Coming up: more Millennial angst. But first, Mr. Market.

Yesterday he was happy with the BoC’s mini-pivot on monetary policy. The expectation was our central bank would jack rates by 75 bps, but it only went 50. It got kinda mushy and dovish in its statement, as well. Inflation will be vanquished, the bank said. Just hang in there. We know what we’re doing. And no, recession is not inevitable.

So stocks and bonds went up. Yields went down.

Today, more advances.This time there’s evidence America is also exceeding expectations. The US economy grew at a respectable clip (2.6% annualized) in the latest quarter – better than expected, reversing two previous quarters of declines, and calling out those doomers wo tell you things are getting awful.

They aren’t. Don’t buy it.

Consider this statement (to Bloomberg) from a leading NY money manager: “What we’re seeing is an economy that has snapped back from two quarters of negative GDP, and it’s probably opened the debate as to whether or not the economy was in recession..,. it raises the possibility of one more rate hike… and then a pause.”

Hmm. Expectations for our CB guys are about the same now. One more increase in December, then maybe a rest to assess the fallout. If inflation stats are in retreat by Christmas, 2023 could be a year of rate stability – after 2022 saw six macho moves goosing our rate by almost 1,500%.

A reminder of what this means:

(a) Equity markets lap this stuff up. A world with higher rates and lower inflation is just ducky for corporate profits, through economic growth with stable input costs. Stay invested.

(b) As yields fall, bond prices rise. After being pummeled half to death over the last eight months, a big reversal looms. You will soon be reminded why we always suggest you have fixed income, and never to exit an asset class when it plops.

(b) Real estate is in trouble. It’ll stay in trouble even it rates stabilize next year or five-year home loans dip a bit. Property prices must retreat from current levels. After all, financing costs are about double where they sat less than a year ago, and affordability has worsened even as prices decline. In the GTA new home sales are down 93%. Condo sales are off 89%. Giant builder Mattamy Homes just reported a 65% collapse in its sales. The only remedy to save this market is a meaningful drop in pricing. So, sell now, buy later.

Now to Angela. Befuddled in BC.

“I want to say thank you so much for all the time you put into the greater fool blog. Ever since it was shared with me I have been reading it daily,” she says in the warm-up MSU.

Turns out A & squeeze earn a combined $200,000. He has $190,000 liquid. She has $70,000 in debt. Rent is $1,600 in a small town in the Interior. And guess what they want?

“This week you wrote a post about rent inflation – yikes, the GTA rental market is crazy! From reading your blog, I know that renting is better than owning especially in overpriced bigger cities; however I am hoping you might be able to discuss on your blog at what point is owning more beneficial than renting when living an affordable small town where the housing market is not as overpriced to begin with, but rent is high. Yes, we are looking to buy.

“The sale of houses has slowed down and prices have started to come down a very small amount. Lots of people in our area are discussing how prices will likely not fall as much here as other places in Canada due to high wages, high demand, and a relatively affordable housing market to begin with (although I still think it is too high). We are planning on starting a family within the next year and we are going to need a bigger place to live. We are currently getting a really good rental deal, but I expect a larger rental will cost us $2100-2500 which is similar to what I think a mortgage would cost us at 20 years amortization.

“I think we are confused on how much liquid assets we should put towards a downpayment? Will prices actually go down much further where we live? Is continuing to rent and investing the money still better than buying? I find it crazy that 67% of mortgage payments go towards interest in the first 5 years.

“If you think this scenario would be helpful for your readers, then I would love a blog post on the subject. I would appreciate it if you did not use my name – as everyone in a small town knows everyone ;)”

Some research into A’s town (I know it) shows a decent house can be had for $500,000. Yes, in YVR that buys a porta-potty and in Toronto a garage (maybe). It sounds cheap. But that also means a house is no great investment in such a location. More a place to live – as weird as that sounds.

Things for Angela:

Don’t use a child as an excuse to be house-lusty. Babies don’t need “a bigger place.” Not for at least a few years. So why not wait and let higher mortgage rates take effect? Besides, the kid is imaginary at this point.

Second, do that math. A $500,000 house with a 20% down payment means more than half your savings will be gone. The five-year fixed-rate mortgage will cost (at 6%) just under $2,500 a month. Property tax, insurance and maintenance will add at least $600 monthly. So the total is $3,100, with the hundred grand down earning nothing. That’s an opportunity cost (at a modest 5% GIC rate) of $420 a month, for a true tally of more than $3,500. This is an increase over your current rent of 120%, and 60% more than the cost of leasing that larger space.

Moreover, you will have decreased your liquid assets by $100,000 and added $400,000 in debt, with payments that are (as you point out) mostly interest. All to buy into a declining housing market in a place where capital appreciation is scant to begin with.

So why would you do it? Even in a town where a property costs a fifth of what it commands in Vancouver? What is the goal?

Angie. There is logic. There’s emotion. Choose.

About the picture: “We are long time readers (10 years) and appreciate the work you and your team do!” writes Wanda. “I was pulling up to a shop and figured a big jerk was honking the horn aggressively, as I pulled up beside the car. I saw this fellow grinning at me….I had to take a picture for you.”

114 comments ↓

#1 Ray Skunk on 10.27.22 at 1:56 pm

Meta bloodbath today.

https://twitter.com/gurgavin/status/1585257698463207425

Oof!

Metaverse? Seriously? – Garth

#2 CanadianOne on 10.27.22 at 1:58 pm

Garth,

YEG wishing you are great day!

#3 Dogman01 on 10.27.22 at 2:04 pm

Being Cold, hungry and broke, focuses the mind.

Opinion: Ottawa has 13% support on its oil and gas policies
https://financialpost.com/opinion/ottawa-oil-and-gas-policies

————————————————–

#143 Pivot! Pivot! Pivot! on 10.27.22 at 8:52 am
The Germans are conducting their own pivot. Tearing out windmills to re-start mining coal.
Being cold and hungry focuses the mind. I once had a university professor who said that if your children are freezing and starving you’ll strip mine Rouge National Park to save them. Germany is waking up to that reality.
Let’s all offer our support for our PM the wisdom to see this reality for himself and stop the ongoing destruction of radical green policies.

———————————————–

The goal of the ongoing “embargo” of Canada’s O&G potential is to ensure wealth and power remains firmly in Central Canada, the traditional lands of our “Laurentian Elite”. Canada’s “natural governing party’s” sacrifice of the general prosperity of Canada to ensure the power center does not shift away from them. With the “Green banner” cynically deployed like medieval religion, to gain moral license and retain control of the masses.

Canada’s ruling class, smart and ruthless playing their own games.

#4 jess on 10.27.22 at 2:04 pm

https://bettermarkets.org/newsroom/sec-rule-to-clawback-excessive-compensation-is-win-for-investors-and-deterrent-for-risky-corporate-behavior/

#5 Grumpy Panda on 10.27.22 at 2:08 pm

Question: what was the $70,000 debt from? Education, or more fun stuff like trips, dining out and shiny stuff? If you do buy a home that’s usually more space to fill up with stuff.

#6 Don’t do it Angela on 10.27.22 at 2:12 pm

Angela,
Remember why you wrote that MSU.

Listen to Garth. You know that he knows more than you.

Enjoy your freedom while you have it. It won’t always be like this.

#7 Flop… on 10.27.22 at 2:13 pm

Flop Drops.

500k and change will get you a detached starter house in Chilliwack.

Like I noted the other day, add 100k for every 20 kilometres towards Stanley Park, and you get the rough and ready baseline.

I also noticed the other day North Shore, Burnaby and Richmond are starting to lose the previous support they had at 1.4 and we are starting to see detached homes go in the early 1.2s

Let’s see what happened with this one in Richmond.

The details…

11260 SCHOONERS COURT

Richmond

Asked 1.27

Assessment 1.33

Sold for 1.21

Only on the market for a week, read the current situation correctly, other starter homes are Langton the market possibly because they think a developer is going to swoop in and pay full value for the land at currently assessed value, which look likely to get a 10% haircut for a bunch of folks.

https://www.zealty.ca/mls-R2731432/11260-SCHOONER-COURT-Richmond-BC/

So Schooner Court went for 1.2, the market is correcting slowly, will hurt some, but for most people it’s plain sailing…

M48BC

#8 Jake on 10.27.22 at 2:21 pm

#1 Ray Skunk on 10.27.22 at 1:56 pm
Meta bloodbath today.

Today’s bloodbath exemplifies why boring dividend investing will on average beat the pants off a home run strategy style portfolio. Anyone investing in Meta in the last 7 years has made nothing and with inflation/opportunity cost would be cashing out today with less purchasing power. Of course, there are always some who sold along the way but likely those funds were invested in another fast money play. In the end, most get wiped.

#9 jess on 10.27.22 at 2:28 pm

interconnected nature -influencers?

A June 2022 report from PwC estimated that there are more than 300 crypto-specialist hedge funds globally and that a survey found that 38 percent
of hedge funds were currently invested in digital assets.
https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/financial-services/pdf/4th-annual-global-crypto-hedge-fund-report-june-2022.pdf

The Singapore-based Three Arrows filed for bankruptcy in July, saying its business had “collapsed in the wake of extreme fluctuations in cryptocurrency markets.”Oct 17, 2022

#10 LowerTheBoom...er...not on 10.27.22 at 2:31 pm

Yogism 3: ” I learned to stop counting backwards because it only takes me back to the beginning”.

#11 ElGatoNeroYVR on 10.27.22 at 2:36 pm

Excelent post and advice with real example.
I would add to that that in small town BC historically ( previous to the last 20 years or so) RE had been pretty much illiquid (you couldnˋt give it away if you tried to) while towns go from employment superstar to ghost town in a BC minute.
I agree that rental is hard to come by in a small town , however the risk is massive and the price not that great really.

#12 Jens on 10.27.22 at 2:40 pm

While I agree with the overall assessment (wait until housing has cooled off to become affordable again), isn’t there a flaw in the calculation, in that you should only consider the interest portion (67% according to Angela) of the $2,500 mortgage payment? The principal portion is just repaying yourself. So the cost of owning would be $833 less per month, i.e. more in line with renting that large property.

Cash flow is cash flow. And reducing debt is not building equity in a declining market. – Garth

#13 the Jaguar on 10.27.22 at 2:41 pm

I am always amazed that people will take on not one, but several significant and potentially life altering moves at the same time. In this example, contemplating the home purchase (which will deplete liquid assets), and have a baby at the same time ( further depletion of liquidity due to going on mat leave, possibly extended mat leave, increased baby costs), and do so when there is talk of a recession ( possible job loss scenario) on everyone’s lips. I love small towns, but they aren’t defined by employment opportunity diversity. What’s the 70,000 in debt about? Not all debt is equal, though all debt remains unattractive.

All due respect to what Garth has posted, the cynical me wonders whether the 50 basis point increase and positive headlines on inflation aren’t related to the US Mid Terms that take place in 12 days. Joe B flew all the way to Saudi to ask for a one month reprieve on oil production cuts. ( and got ‘no’ for a response ).

And there is this recent message to Central Banks from the UN : “UNCTAD Secretary-General Rebeca Grynspan said the current rate increases are ‘hurting the most vulnerable, especially in developing countries.’” Until the world squeaks through the next six months by the seat of its pants and comes out in one piece I ain’t buying any headlines or statistics.

#14 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 3:01 pm

DELETED

#15 Lolo on 10.27.22 at 3:02 pm

I love the picture, and the story behind it.

We own a 1bdr+den+storage condo, which we stayed in for 2 years after the birth of our first baby (total 750sq ft). The den was actually used for an office, so guess where baby slept. Yup, in the glorified closet. We would have stayed longer, but baby #2 was coming.

#16 Dragonfly58 on 10.27.22 at 3:08 pm

For the 20% or so of Canadians who actually , you know , have money, you can breathe easy.
For all the rest of us it’s a slow ( or not so slow } slide into the muck.
That’s something like 30 million of us little beavers who are to one degree or another feeling the pain of stagnant wages / pensions vs rampaging prices.
Must feel nice to be at or near the top.
But if things carry on this way for a few years, the Canadian social fabric as a whole is at risk.
A country with a very large group of have nots have a way of making things uncomfortable for the fraction of the population at the top.

#17 A on 10.27.22 at 3:08 pm

Question for Garth: do you rent your home? There’s something to be said about the security that comes with not having a landlord, along with the pride of owning a home. Learning how to maintain your own home as people have done for centuries would also cut the costs of maintenance that everyone touts as so expensive. I have read the analyses of the subject and can’t argue with the logic of it but I am hesitant to agree that it applies across the board. As long as one buys within their means and puts a little extra on their principal when they can, I feel the benefits far outweigh the negatives. Maybe I just had bad landlords in my experience or my math is way off. All i know is my wife’s grandmother is having a hell of a time paying for rent on top of the many other costs involved with being too old to work and she may not agree.

#18 Leftover on 10.27.22 at 3:17 pm

A and squeeze can probably save $50k a year even if they have to pay $2500/mo rent. Add that to their $120k net assets for the next 20 years, stir in 6% real growth in TFSA’s and RSP’s, and, voila, they could have close to $3 million in 2022 dollars banked by the time they’re 55.

Freedom 55. There is such a thing.

#19 Flop… on 10.27.22 at 3:22 pm

Mrs Flop just told me a student set off a Bear Banger in the school hallway and scared the crap out of everyone.

She then saw the a new teacher running down the hallway with last year’s yearbook, in an attempt to identify the kid.

Kids, there’s only one thing left to do, avoid Photo Day at your school this year, at all costs.

They are using it to track you.

Turner Nation approved this message…

M48BC

#20 Yukon Elvis on 10.27.22 at 3:24 pm

The Kyiv Independent

@KyivIndependent
·
16m
⚡️Putin: Nuclear strike on Ukraine would ‘make no political, military sense’.

In his annual speech on foreign policy at a meeting of the Valdai Discussion Club, Russian dictator Vladimir Putin said Russia “had never talked about using nuclear weapons.”

#21 Linda on 10.27.22 at 3:26 pm

Today’s dog story is cute, but sure hope the pup in question was not left alone in the vehicle too long. Overheating a real concern:(

If A & squeeze are planning to settle down where they currently live I’d advise waiting six or so months & see where house prices are at before taking the plunge. I’d add that someone with $70K in debt should maybe use that time to pay that debt off before taking on more. Especially if planning to enter parenthood, because chances are the ability to pay off debt is going to drop substantially once children enter the picture. As Garth says, a child won’t care if you own or rent but they will care if you can’t provide some kind of stable lifestyle because your debts exceed your ability to pay.

#22 chalkie on 10.27.22 at 3:32 pm

Yesterday was good news, bad news for the Canadian mortgages, the BOC adding another 50 basis points when it was expected to rise 75 basis points.

Variable-rate payments fluctuate based on the bank’s interest rates. As rates continue to go up, there’s concern now because many variable-rate mortgage holders have already passed their trigger rates on fixed mortgages. This is when interest rates have gone up so much that an individual’s monthly payments are only covering the interest and are not paying down any of the principal loan.
If you must get a variable mortgage, “negotiate”, banks can be flexible with good negotiations coming in even below prime rates.

Many people are being turned down by the financial institutions because they have strict rules and are not allowed to alter them, these people have no other choice other than to turn to private mortgages.

Private Mortgages unfortunately come at a much higher premium for the borrower, adding more pressure for families to hang on to their biggest asset in life, at least it is an option.

If there is any good news pertaining to how you use private mortgage money, it’s less restrictive as compared to the terms & conditions of a conventional lending institution.

On private mortgages, you can use the borrowed amount for Real estate purchase, home renovations, debt consolidation, restructuring of financing, equity take outs and a lot more. The agreement is between you and the lender. Be aware there is a cost to your pocket on private mortgages before you go rushing off and sign on the dotted line.

Prices for new homes “have a long way to fall before the market reaches a sustainable equilibrium”.

Minister of Finance Chrystia Freeland arrives at a cabinet meeting. In a speech on Wednesday, Freeland warned that Canada’s economy will experience “difficult days ahead” as interest rates continue to rise.
There are still some difficult days ahead for Canada’s economy, To say otherwise would be misleading.

It is laughable how some people are blaming the governments for their bad choices on buying homes at the peak & not factoring in their own FOMO, it is always the governments’ fault, unless it was the reverse for them and the profits were rolling in, that would be a different mindset, then that decision would have been their own idea.
I suspect there will be a lot of macaroni dinners before the dust settles for real estate, not only for Canada, but most of the world. High home prices are gone for a good 8 to 10 years as we ease into a sideways leveling off, once they bottom out sometime in 2023 or 2024.

Quote of the day: Too many people spend money they earned. To buy things they do not want, To impress people that they do not like.

#23 jess on 10.27.22 at 3:44 pm

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has used $1 billion it collected for charity in Canada to finance its own private university in the United States, an investigation by CBC’s The Fifth Estate has found. We talk to co-host of The Fifth Estate Mark Kelley; and Nigel Kennett, a Mormon and an accountant from Alberta, who reached out to the CBC after he found out how his church is spending its tithing money.

“This is unacceptable…. Charities are public organizations and their books must be open.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mormon-church-jesus-christ-latter-day-saints-funds-charity-1.6630190

#24 Cash is King on 10.27.22 at 3:44 pm

Wait for the hosuing markets to crash and burn

The lowest prices in decades will soon be here

Foreclosures and insolvencies ramp up in the Spring

Winter is here.

Now we wait for the desperation and the lowest prices, court ordered sales, cmhc sales etc.

Tick Tock

#25 Squire on 10.27.22 at 3:45 pm

#3 Dogman01 on 10.27.22 at 2:04 pm
Being Cold, hungry and broke, focuses the mind.

Opinion: Ottawa has 13% support on its oil and gas policies
https://financialpost.com/opinion/ottawa-oil-and-gas-policies

————————————————–

#143 Pivot! Pivot! Pivot! on 10.27.22 at 8:52 am
The Germans are conducting their own pivot. Tearing out windmills to re-start mining coal.
Being cold and hungry focuses the mind. I once had a university professor who said that if your children are freezing and starving you’ll strip mine Rouge National Park to save them. Germany is waking up to that reality.
Let’s all offer our support for our PM the wisdom to see this reality for himself and stop the ongoing destruction of radical green policies.

———————————————–

The goal of the ongoing “embargo” of Canada’s O&G potential is to ensure wealth and power remains firmly in Central Canada, the traditional lands of our “Laurentian Elite”. Canada’s “natural governing party’s” sacrifice of the general prosperity of Canada to ensure the power center does not shift away from them. With the “Green banner” cynically deployed like medieval religion, to gain moral license and retain control of the masses.

Canada’s ruling class, smart and ruthless playing their own games.

————— Yup you hit the nail on the head for sure.
They also need to realize USA would be happy to accept Alberta into their family if Ottawa pushes them away.

#26 Dave on 10.27.22 at 3:47 pm

There is alot of talk of de-globalization. BRICS vs the Western Allies.

If more manufacturers comeback to Canada that’s great for job but horrible for inflation.

Also Saudi isn’t happy with the current oil prices…..OPEC+ will eventually jackpot prices and more inflation.

Are things really getting back to normal?

#27 Søren Angst on 10.27.22 at 3:54 pm

It’s a disease.

She wants to buy a house with his money since she’s -$70K in the hole.

Well, she sure got the combo ALL-IN-ONE marriage with him:

1. First marriage for love.
2. Second for money.

Hopefully, he can also provide her with:

3. “Third for companionship”.

Garth, no matter what Math you give her, she’s buyin’ that house. It’s as simple as that.

Still, I admire your valor and ciphering.

——————–

#86 NoName yesterday

Incoherent, unsubstantiated Reductio ad Absurdum. A know nothing Canadese.

BTW, rainfall in Venezia today:

In the past 30 years, it rained 12 out of 30 times on this day.
Record Rain 1.9 cm (2012)
Average Rain 0.2 cm

… and it was a chilly 21 deg C, sunny, with 0 nm of rain.

Still, far too many Turisti to pi$$ me off visiting La Serenissima.

Fortunately, I avoided Harry’s Bar (tough to do for me) and did not get sloshed on their Bellini (they invented the Bellini … the YVR English Bay COLORED ALCOHOLIC KOOL-AID you drink by that name, is what it is).

PS:

YVR had its last Partly Sunny day a few days ago. You’ll just have to wait until 2023 for another one. Scusa.

#28 Brad on 10.27.22 at 3:58 pm

You said a 5% modest Rate GIC. This is what we did, sold 2 rental properties and locked up our real estate profits 5% compounded for 10 years at BMO fully CDIC insured, joint cash GICs, TFSAs split with BMO Trust Company, Bank of Montreal Mortgage Company, Bank of Montreal, Montreal Trust and fully insured CDIC with Laurentian Bank. Our net annual profit renting these 2 properties was 7.1% after all expenses, property taxes etc. for the last 13 years. So not really much more for all the hassles we had. We left $275,000 in an liquid accounts for our future taxes next year on these real estate profits and some for our liquidity.

The $600,000 compounded will be $977,336.78 worth at maturity. The total annual compound interest is $37,733 or 6.289% effective after compound rate. The $184,000 TFSAs are compounded tax free so $11,571 compound interest is tax free and no annual income taxes due. The remaining joint GICs $416,000 annual compound interest is $26,162 is taxable but as we are in a modest income we are taxed at maximum 25%, so really $6,540 annual taxes due. This means our combined annual tax rate is a modest 17.33% between us. It is not too high.

We do not have to no more deal with hassles of tenants, maintenance, repairs, high property taxes, utilities, insurance premiums etc. Oh do not forget we you do not have to deal with the City of Toronto, John Tory’s new vacant home tax of 1% per property value if we do not want to leave our house empty and not rent it out. Good riddance.

#29 Keith on 10.27.22 at 4:11 pm

For blog dogs who know: Of all the factors that will weigh on the global economy, I am most concerned about energy prices. How much risk is there of the price of a barrel taking off?

#30 Quintilian on 10.27.22 at 4:15 pm

Coming up: more Millennial angst. But first, Mr. Market.

I think you give Mr. Market too much credit.

Mr. M (to protect confidentiality ) is irrational, severely psychotic, with a sprinkling of Non-compliant personality disorder.

It goes up because of expectations of lower inflation, combined with growth?

So, demand will thrust ahead, while inflation subsides with rates below inflation?

That’s just crazy talk.

#31 West New West on 10.27.22 at 4:28 pm

Yes….reducing debt is not building equity in a declining market…..as so many have learned the hard way. Such an important fact that, it seems, so many are oblivious to, or, do know but just don’t want to even acknowledge….like when when the dog is scolded but chooses to look away in an attempt to not hear

#32 Andy on 10.27.22 at 4:40 pm

As yields fall, bond prices rise. After being pummeled half to death over the last eight months, a big reversal looms. You will soon be reminded why we always suggest you have fixed income, and never to exit an asset class when it plops.

Here’s a dumb question. I have a 65/35 growth and income fund. I’m constantly being told (not by my advisor) that I should buy an index fund,,,, that bonds will only have a negative effect in my portfolio. Can you elaborate on the section above that I copied from your post?

#33 Inflation on 10.27.22 at 4:49 pm

ECB went with 0.75 hike today, stock market up again, the Fed will do 0.75% next week, sorry for those real estate bulls who post here everyday, there is no pivot, real estate will go down 25% from here in the GTA. Garth why are you not on twitter?

#34 Ballingsford on 10.27.22 at 5:03 pm

Nice picture, wouldn’t want to get in that car uninvited!

Had a friend who looked like that when he was young. Dentist was able to fix it with some sort of gadget that pulled in the lower jaw and extended the upper jaw over a couple of years. Afterwards, he looked handsome and not as mean looking either.

Wonder if there’s such a device for the housing market?

#35 Søren Angst on 10.27.22 at 5:09 pm

Decided to take StaCan’s wealth data, 2nd Qtr vs. 1st Qtr, and slice/dice their data by:

1. Income Quintile.
2. Age Group (and yes Kids, you get to b!tch).

[StatCan reported Wealth Quintile and not the above]

100% of Cdns lost wealth in the 2nd Qtr vs. the 1st by a staggering:

near $1 TRILLION (-6.1%) in TOTAL.

Income Quintile
As expected, the High Income earners lost the most at about $420 billion in total. Lowest Income earners lost about $76 billion total.
https://twitter.com/bsant54/status/1585731187049304065

Age Group
Boomers lost the mostest at about $287 billion. The Immediate Gratification Crowd, Gold Medal for breathing air in, and out, lost about $80 billion but were hardest hit with an 8% loss of their wealth.
https://twitter.com/bsant54/status/1585736697048076288

3rd Qtr vs. 2nd Qtr most likely will get uglier. We’ll see what StatCan reports.

Fasten your seatbelts.

#36 jess on 10.27.22 at 5:18 pm

Health Care Company Pleads Guilty and is Sentenced for Conspiring to Suppress Wages of School Nurses
Company Admits to Criminal Allocation and Wage-Fixing Conspiracy Targeting Nurses Serving a Nevada School District

VDA OC LLC (VDA), a health care staffing company, pleaded guilty and was sentenced today for entering into and engaging in a conspiracy with a competitor to allocate employee nurses and to fix the wages of those nurses. “Free and open labor markets are a cornerstone of the American dream,” said Assistant Attorney General Jonathan Kanter of the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division. “Today’s guilty plea demonstrates our commitment to ensuring that workers receive competitive wages and a fair chance to pursue better work and that criminals who conspire to deprive them of those rights are held accountable. The court’s sentence will compensate the hardworking health care workers who were victims of this crime.”

“Protecting workers from antitrust schemes – such as wage-fixing and employee allocation – remains a priority for the U.S. Attorney’s Office,” said U.S. Attorney Jason M. Frierson for the District of Nevada. “We are committed to working with the Antitrust Division and FBI to prosecute anticompetitive conduct that affects opportunities for workers and the labor market.”“The defendant conspired with a competitor to fix wages and undercut the salaries of school nurses,” said Assistant Director Luis Quesada of the FBI’s Criminal Investigative Division. “Everyone, especially those responsible for keeping our children healthy and safe, deserves the opportunity to compete for employment in a fair marketplace.”

#37 The General on 10.27.22 at 5:23 pm

America will be the last one standing. Being that European heavy industry has begun to shut down because of self inflicted policies due to sanctions. But America will take that extra production, and finish off a major competitor. Win/win. But they’re our allies, you say? All is fair in love and war. Black swans are lurking in the shadows also. After the U.S. elections, we shall see.

#38 Tony on 10.27.22 at 5:23 pm

Mega hike in the Bank of Canada rate coming this December this time citing out of control gasoline prices. One thing is certain gas at the pumps will soon make new highs in Canada. Like everyone in the know already knows inflation will surge once the midterm elections are over in America.

#39 Tony on 10.27.22 at 5:26 pm

Re: #20 Søren Angst on 10.27.22 at 5:09 pm

Don’t include me in that 100 percent as I got a lot wealthier in the second quarter of this year compared to the first quarter.

#40 Islandgirl on 10.27.22 at 5:50 pm

Honestly I don’t think anyone really thinks about the true cost when buying anymore. There is no way I’d buy a house right now if I had a good rental, doesn’t matter how much space you think you need. I worked from home with a husband and 2 young kids, a dog, 3 cats and some small critters in 1100sqft home (300 sqft only having a parital height ceiling) and we managed fine and no our house wasn’t a zoo. People over-estimate how much space they need. We eventually moved to a 2200sqft home and now share it with 2 grandparents and it’s still roomy and my kids are almost adult sized teenagers.
Angela needs to wait until after the kid is born and then take another look and see if it still makes sense to buy.

#41 Tony on 10.27.22 at 5:51 pm

Re: #8 Jake on 10.27.22 at 2:21 pm

World famous psychic Craig Hamilton-Parker hit the bullseye with his call on Meta back in November of 2021. In all his videos on youtube before and after that was the only stock he hated with a passion. I nicknamed it Farcebook for him. My brother got out of his short too early on Meta.

#42 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 5:52 pm

#25 Dave on 10.27.22 at 3:47 pm
There is alot of talk of de-globalization. BRICS vs the Western Allies.
————

More like on-shoring. As more and more technology is injected into manufacturing, the less cheap labour is an advantage. The West will slowly repopulate with lights-out big manufactures and smaller, flexible more intimate manufacturing piloted by just a few employees and aimed at a very narrow customer bases. It’s already on the go.

The BRICS political landscape will be a big driver in moving these changes forward. I wish I could live to be 200 so I could watch it all happen.

#43 Nonplused on 10.27.22 at 5:55 pm

Wait… what??? He’s +190 and she’s -70? She better have a Master’s to show for it, seeing as she has no house. Sounds like Angela needs a better job and a serious intervention into her spending habits, not kids and a house. She is not displaying the sort of maturity required to manage a family. Her squeeze probably knows this though, which is why there is no ring on her finger.

#44 Dr V on 10.27.22 at 6:01 pm

23 Jess – thanks. have the PVR set to record.

#45 Big Mie on 10.27.22 at 6:04 pm

Don’t let this loudmouth politician and the American Dems fool you, they are manipulating the numbers on an unprecedented scale to save themselves from a slaughter next month. Hold your course and keep plenty of cash on hand. (not in the bank!)

#46 Bezengy on 10.27.22 at 6:10 pm

#16 Dragonfly58 on 10.27.22 at 3:08 pm
For the 20% or so of Canadians who actually , you know , have money, you can breathe easy.

—————-

Wealthy = 2.05% of Canada’s population has between $1 million and $5 million USD. VHNW = 0.26% of Canada’s population has between $5 million and $30 million USD.

—-

If anyone thinks someone is rich because they have a million USD they haven’t kept up. Even at the high (5 mil) end most of these folks have taken a hit recently on almost all of their holdings and are feeling a little poorer lately.

Seriously, is there anyone on this blog with net worth of $1 mil USD who considers them rich?

#47 DON on 10.27.22 at 6:12 pm

#13 Jag All due respect to what Garth has posted, the cynical me wonders whether the 50 basis point increase and positive headlines on inflation aren’t related to the US Mid Terms that take place in 12 days. Joe B flew all the way to Saudi to ask for a one month reprieve on oil production cuts. ( and got ‘no’ for a response ).

******I have the same lining of thinking.

#48 Dr V on 10.27.22 at 6:16 pm

28 Brad

“You said a 5% modest Rate GIC. This is what we did…”
———————————————–

Or you could take some of that and buy a bank, a pipeline, an insurer, and maybe a utility all paying 6%+ tax advantaged dividends.

C’mon brad, you can do it!

#49 Dogman01 on 10.27.22 at 6:17 pm

#33 Inflation on 10.27.22 at 4:49 pm

Garth why are you not on twitter?

——————————————

“Words have meaning – and they are the only tool that journalists have. Limiting themselves to 140 characters is like a soldier going into battle with only 3 bullets.
Twitter is for Twits – not journalists.” – Neil MacDonald

#50 Shawn on 10.27.22 at 6:30 pm

Risk of higher oil prices? “Risk”???

#29 Keith on 10.27.22 at 4:11 pm

For blog dogs who know: Of all the factors that will weigh on the global economy, I am most concerned about energy prices. How much risk is there of the price of a barrel taking off?

************************************
That’s not exactly a “risk” for Alberta. Bring it on!

#51 Dogman01 on 10.27.22 at 6:34 pm

#25 Squire on 10.27.22 at 3:45 pm

Yup you hit the nail on the head for sure.
They also need to realize USA would be happy to accept Alberta into their family if Ottawa pushes them away.

—————————————————–

Think of a family where the dominant member forbids another member to leave the house to take on a job. This hurts the entire family, reducing the prosperity of the entire household all because an insecure, abusive member of the household wants to retain their power and control over the family members.

While Alberta likely could not stand on its own, it is a “tasty bag of groceries” for our friendly neighbor.

High-time Alberta (& Saskatchewan) begins the “embargo” of this abusive Federal Government, as a prelude to a possible Divorce (a strategy that works wonders for Quebec)

Justin Trudeau – worst Prime Minster ever….

#52 cuke and tomato picker on 10.27.22 at 6:51 pm

Headlines in the Times Colonist today say that we should
prepare for more interest hikes. So why was he only
prepared to go .50 this time ?

#53 Mad Vlad on 10.27.22 at 7:01 pm

What city is she in?
Starts with …?
Rhymes with…?
any hint…?

#54 Mad Vlad on 10.27.22 at 7:17 pm

#46 Bezengy

$10 million is the new $1 million.

#55 The General on 10.27.22 at 7:17 pm

DELETED (Russian troll)

#56 Old Boot on 10.27.22 at 7:23 pm

#49 Dogman01 on 10.27.22 at 6:17 pm

#33 Inflation on 10.27.22 at 4:49 pm

Garth why are you not on twitter?

——————————————

“Words have meaning – and they are the only tool that journalists have. Limiting themselves to 140 characters is like a soldier going into battle with only 3 bullets.
Twitter is for Twits – not journalists.” – Neil MacDonald

—————

Forsooth, Dogman!

“Brevity is the soul of wit.”

Will Shakespeare

#57 NoName on 10.27.22 at 7:27 pm

#27 Søren Angst on 10.27.22 at 3:54 pm

#86 NoName yesterday

Incoherent, unsubstantiated Reductio ad Absurdum.

Yes we know that already.

I wasn’t trying to predict weather for your trip but sentences came out “funnier” than should, probably I should use word starting with letter s…

===

Here is a same, in most coherent way that i can do it in writing.

I am just trying to understand this, not putting you on a spot just when other day you pointed out that consumer spending is live and vell in canada, i went to stats website and look what i thought it was correct table and to some degree it confirms what you sad, kind of.

Here is a table i believe i looked at. when you look at table top row (Household final consumption expenditure) its flatline from q2-2019 to q3-2021, that consumption expenditure start going up. q2 21 to q2 22 there is an increase of about 12%, while highest inflation is less than 9% in june of this year.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3610012401&pickMembers%5B0%5D=2.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=3.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2019&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=04&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20190401%2C20220401

Yes there is an increase in dollar amount, but is an increase in spending because consumers are paying more for same volume of stuff, or we actually consume more of stuff and therefore we are spending more. Judging by dollar amount we are spending more but table doesn’t shows that we are consuming more stuff. So in my wired way i just asked is there a table that measure all this but in units or volume sold that corresponds to dollar amount table.

As for alcohol and kool aid i stopped drinking that some time ago, perhaps its time to go back to it. Nice to hear that you enjoyed yours day out! Good stuff.

#58 George on 10.27.22 at 7:39 pm

Yes, Dragonfly58, too bad most Canadians believed that the only answer is government will make life better, the Liberal, NDP, socialist mantra and brainwashing is there to help them. If people actually spent more time being responsible planning their own life, family lives and finances with real results instead of always thinking government will help them and give more benefits, free stuff, we would all be better off as a country, society.

My son was working since 16 doing summer jobs, contract work, now owns his own online business. He is only 21 and already has $95,000 in TFSAs, $25,000 reserve savings, no debt and rents his own 2 bedroom apartment. I know from personal experience my co worker quit smoking at 32 after 14 years smoking and just with that money has accumulated for 25 years $225,000 in his RRSP and is saving $4,000 a year by not smoking now. I can tell so cases of people doing intelligent changes in their lives that have put them already in a much better position not only health wise but financially, better for their family in general.

I know alot of people that make dumb mistakes everyday that do not want to learn, listen to anyone and keeping digging that hole that gets deeper and deeper and blame everyone else and want the government to be the be all end all solution of their problems. It never works out for them.

#59 DJT on 10.27.22 at 8:01 pm

+——- vn

BoC was pressured to march in step with Biden’s FED, Midterms are coming.

#60 Huh? on 10.27.22 at 8:16 pm

#14 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 3:01 pm
DELETED

————

Dozer guy gets the big “D”? That’s rare.

Give us a hint?

#61 Angela on 10.27.22 at 8:19 pm

Angela here,

For those asking, the $70K debt is student loans and I have been paying back minimum 5k per month.

We have no intention to buy right now, but would like to consider buying within 1-2 years depending on what happens with housing prices and interest rates. I will be debt free by then and we will likely have another 50k in liquid assets. Both of our jobs are stable and I expect are combined income to be $240 000 by 2024.

My personal opinion is that you can’t compare renting to owning merely from a financial perspective. There is so much more than just financial value to consider when it comes to owning a house – room for family visit, a yard to grow a garden, space for a home office (which will help with my sanity), security of not being evicted, being able to make it your own/pride of ownership, space to store sports gear, etc.

Thanks Garth and everyone else for your input! I will reach out in a year or two when our financial situation has improved to see if your answer is still NO don’t buy ;) I am waiting for those lower housing prices to come!

#62 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.27.22 at 8:20 pm

@#55 Russian Troll

I believe the term for “Deleted” in Russian is
“Nyet, nyet Soviet”

Does Putin have a back door to escape from the debacle he has started?

Or is he hoping the weak politicians in the “declining West” will bow down and allow him to run roughshod over every former Soviet satellite country….

I’m thinking most of those countries may want to say something about Vlad the Impaled ruling them…..

#63 Dragonfly58 on 10.27.22 at 8:30 pm

Well George, it would be interesting to know where I went so wrong.
Worked since a teen myself . Put myself through BCIT then UBC. Worked , worked , worked for the next decades. Started with a trade, progressed to a tech career . Made quite decent money for the first 15 years, but after that the contracts never kept up with inflation. { As modest as it was at the time.} Compound that .5 % – 1.5 % yearly shortfall over the next 15 years , then retire into crushing inflation. At least 5 % shortfall this year and from the sounds of it much more to follow.
Buy a house and raise a family. What wou;ld you { or your wiz kid son } do differently ? When I was 21 I was up to my eyeballs in books at BCIT. Started from zero and for a time at least was upper middle class, but it didn’t last. Contracts never kept up with cost of living. And I worked for the biggest player in my field. Steady upgrades of my qualifications and far more on my plate at work each year, but the income steadily fell off. The longer you play, the bigger the shortfall.

#64 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 8:36 pm

#16 Dragonfly58 on 10.27.22 at 3:08 pm
For the 20% or so of Canadians who actually , you know , have money, you can breathe easy.
For all the rest of us it’s a slow ( or not so slow } slide into the muck.
That’s something like 30 million of us little beavers who are to one degree or another feeling the pain of stagnant wages / pensions vs rampaging prices.
Must feel nice to be at or near the top.
But if things carry on this way for a few years, the Canadian social fabric as a whole is at risk.
A country with a very large group of have nots have a way of making things uncomfortable for the fraction of the population at the top.
——- –

There’s a bit of sway in the definition I think. I feel pretty rich with an income of over 5X my annual COL, and zero debt. We don’t actually make a crapload, but our costs are super low.

I do agree our overall national future holds decades of middle class shrinkage and increasing social strife. The die has already been cast (by Trudeau), and there is no changing our destiny now. 40+ years of prosperity decline are baked into the Canuck pie for the kids and newcomers. I guess we’re all just going to sit and watch it happen from the looks of things, the luckiest of us – from retirement. Maybe Trudeau will get another minority in 2025 and shack up with Singh again. Man, what a shit-show that would be…

#65 Grunt on 10.27.22 at 8:42 pm

61 and not wanted.

My employee number is 6 digits. New hires have an 8 digit. The corp would prefer us 20% sixes gone in preference for cheaper newbies. There’s been regime change at the top.

My landlord would love me gone. I’m paying well below market rent in a nothing special 70s hirise.

#66 Wrk.dover on 10.27.22 at 8:48 pm

One Million CDN feels stinking filthy loaded, when only 33% of it is in RE that would be worth well over 2 mil by itself, where DragonFly choses to live and prosper!

#67 Ed on 10.27.22 at 9:05 pm

So I’m thinking of selling my Brookfield renewable resources and Algonquin…

“Economist Jeff Currie of Goldman Sachs (Global Head of Commodities Research in the Global Investment Research Division): “Here’s a stat for you, as of January of this year. At the end of last year, overall, fossil fuels represented 81 percent of overall energy consumption. Ten years ago, they were at 82. So though, all of that investment in renewables, you’re talking about 3.8 trillion, let me repeat that $3.8 trillion of investment in renewables moved fossil fuel consumption from 82 to 81 percent, of the overall energy consumption. But you know, given the recent events and what’s happened with the loss of gas and replacing it with coal, that number is likely above 82.” … The net of it is clearly we haven’t made any progress.”

#68 Mmm hmm on 10.27.22 at 9:08 pm

House of Commons votes unanimously to describe residential schools as genocide

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/house-of-commons-votes-unanimously-to-describe-residential-schools-as-genocide-1.6128443

#69 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.27.22 at 9:13 pm

Urban random attacks and the “catch and release” policies of the BC NDP govt are now being poitned at the Feds by the NDP.

This is a HUGE voter issue in urban centers of Canada and if the Conservatives dont take advantage of the boiling anger of typically Urban Liberal and NDP voters…..

#70 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:14 pm

#58 George on 10.27.22 at 7:39 pm

I know alot of people that make dumb mistakes everyday that do not want to learn, listen to anyone and keeping digging that hole that gets deeper and deeper and blame everyone else and want the government to be the be all end all solution of their problems. It never works out for them.
—————-

It should be pretty clear at this point that our current crop of nose-honkers in Ottawa are the enemy of regular working Canadians, and a friend to the rich. All the hard and liquid asset owning Canucks saw their net worth shoot to the moon under Trudeau. I’ve lived that personally, though 100% just because I got rolling before Trudeau came along. Massive CCB handouts because I decided to have kids, huge RE gains while I drank beer on the porch, 5 figure tax returns every year despite our above average HHI.

During the Chrétien/Martin/Harper eras, we were struggling to get set up and making slow, but steady progress. Exiting the 90’s right up to the GFC, these PM’s backstopped Canadians with good fiscal and economic policy and put the wind at our backs. That all changed when Trudeau came along and single handedly turned a tailwind into a hurricane force headwind.

Now, there isn’t a day that goes by where I’m not grateful to have built a life under good government. The kids and newcomers will have to work twice as hard to achieve half as much in post-Trudeau Canada. It didn’t have to be this way – but this is what Canadians wanted, so now we got it. In spades.

Good luck kids. Ottawa ain’t on your side anymore.

#71 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:23 pm

#50 Shawn on 10.27.22 at 6:30 pm
Risk of higher oil prices? “Risk”???

#29 Keith on 10.27.22 at 4:11 pm

For blog dogs who know: Of all the factors that will weigh on the global economy, I am most concerned about energy prices. How much risk is there of the price of a barrel taking off?

************************************

That’s not exactly a “risk” for Alberta. Bring it on!

———-

Haha! Shawn, I am enjoying your indefatigable pro-Alberta swagger :).

#72 Dr V on 10.27.22 at 9:23 pm

58 George

“He is only 21 and already has $95,000 in TFSAs.”
———————————————————-

Wow. Kid rolled the dice on $18k (maybe $24k) and won.
Take him to Vegas George.

#73 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.27.22 at 9:25 pm

A new Canadian Record!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiD4Kvi4YH7AhVvAzQIHfrxAwAQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctvnews.ca%2Fcanada%2Ffood-bank-usage-across-canada-hit-all-time-high-nearly-1-5m-visits-in-march-report-1.6127158&usg=AOvVaw2nxXjrp_2F0pxL8X3m4Qh4

1.5 MILLION people visited a food bank last March.

All while Canada has record low unemployment…..

Recession?
What recession?

#74 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.27.22 at 9:36 pm

@#65 Mr G

“My landlord would love me gone. I’m paying well below market rent in a nothing special 70s hirise.”

++++
Hah!
Best way to annoy your money grubbing landlord?
Stay right where you are.
:)

Same with your job.
Sue the pricks if they try and Nuke you.

#75 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.27.22 at 9:42 pm

Musk is moving into the Twitter headquarters and brings the sink to clean the dishes.
Half the staff could be affected.
Apparently the Chief Twit has already been cleaned out.
Where is Sailo to comment?

#76 Wanda on 10.27.22 at 9:42 pm

#21 Linda
Yes! The back windows were down halfway…..he was huge for that type of dog!
The shop is an order supply…quick pick up place…and he could see his owner out the windshield
I was so aggravated by the horn….then instantly laughing…funny moment in time.
You always leave great constructive comments…I skim the steerage for them.

#77 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:57 pm

#69 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.27.22 at 9:13 pm
Urban random attacks and the “catch and release” policies of the BC NDP govt are now being poitned at the Feds by the NDP.

This is a HUGE voter issue in urban centers of Canada and if the Conservatives dont take advantage of the boiling anger of typically Urban Liberal and NDP voters…..
————-

Yep. Meanwhile, in Brampton…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgo-CaBfFx0

Foreign ethnic strife boils over. Read the top comments for crying out loud. Keeps getting worse. This, right on the heels of the axe/machete attack last month. Same kind of strife. All kinds of issues building up pressure in Canadian urbanity. Brawls, sword fights, bat battles, assaults, fraud, corruption, defacing of religious structures, and above all – no consequences.

#78 yvr_lurker on 10.27.22 at 9:57 pm

#70 IHCTD9
Now, there isn’t a day that goes by where I’m not grateful to have built a life under good government. The kids and newcomers will have to work twice as hard to achieve half as much in post-Trudeau Canada. It didn’t have to be this way – but this is what Canadians wanted, so now we got it. In spades.

Good luck kids. Ottawa ain’t on your side anymore.
——–

Although we have likely had very different paths, this is pretty much how I feel. I grew up with zilch and everything that I have now is due to my own effort and perserverance (no family plan, no inheritances, nada). Under Chretein/Martin who told it to Canadians in an honest way, it was still possible for people to leap-frog social classes (housing was not so unaffordable and there were opportunities). Now with Trudeau (who as a side-note has never “earned his position” through education/entrepreneurship or anything that HE did), effectively by mismanaging the economy, the next generation who were in the same boat that I was in have less opportunity to leap-frog their social class from their own hard work. Kids who inherit stuff, are blessed with families with resources, will be way ahead of those who have to start at home plate rather than at third base.

I am hoping that housing crashes to a large extent (even though it will affect me somewhat) so that the next generation can have an easier go… however, with prices coming down and interest rates rising up a steep mountain, we are not yet in a situation where housing is more affordable. Despite all of his talk and innovations on reconciliation, name changing, equity etc… the average citizen is worse off under Trudeau than with previous Gov’ts. If it gets bad at least I can walk around the corner and legally buy any cannabis products that I might need…. there are 3 such shops within a 10 minute walk of my house… Yippee!

#79 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 10:12 pm

#60 Huh? on 10.27.22 at 8:16 pm
#14 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 3:01 pm
DELETED

————

Dozer guy gets the big “D”? That’s rare.

Give us a hint?
————

Ha! G mostly just ghosts my more reprobate postings as they’re not usually worth typing out a formal “deleted”, so you don’t see the frequency. In this case I employed a certain verb that was no bueno, and caught a “D”.

#80 the jaguar on 10.27.22 at 10:19 pm

@61 Angela

Godspeed Angela. May the wind be at your back.
Given you live in BC, tradewinds etc., push goes to the dealer. ( that’s you ).

#81 Ohm on 10.27.22 at 10:34 pm

Have been growing my own vegetables all summer, superb taste and I guess healthy for me and ours, Season ended, felt like a salad, drove to to the grocery store and they wanted almost 5 bucks for a lousy head of lettuce. Nope, passed on it.

It is all a shit show!

#82 Shelby on 10.27.22 at 11:04 pm

A decent house for 500 in the interior?

Maybe Enderby. 40 minutes up the road in Salmon Arm it is 900.

An hour to the East in a little town called Revelstoke, it is over a million for a not so decent house.

#83 Valdai discussion group on 10.27.22 at 11:14 pm

What? The West.

What What, who da thunk?

#84 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 11:24 pm

#78 yvr_lurker on 10.27.22 at 9:57 pm

Although we have likely had very different paths, this is pretty much how I feel. I grew up with zilch and everything that I have now is due to my own effort and perserverance (no family plan, no inheritances, nada)
——-

We’re probably not so different. I got immigrant parents and grew up in a northern Ontario city that was coming off its heyday. Never a lot a $ to spread around. Oatmeal, cream of wheat, and French toast for breakfast, ground beef patty, mashed potatoes, and canned green beans for supper. Moving to Southern Ontario and big sacrifice from our parents got us post-secondary educations and decent employment. Ms. IH came along and the resulting dual incomes were just enough to buy a fixer upper, save a bit, and raise a couple kids. From there we rolled with the punches till today. The 2+ decades of saving what we could have added up, the house got paid off, our incomes grew – all the while our COL was low. 2 kids in Uni now, and still not a lot to spare after our commitments, but we’re getting close to the end of the big bills and still standing.

Can’t see us doing all that in today’s climate on our current income. Our house was 1.37X our income back then, closer to 4X today. That alone would totally kill off our ability to do all that we have. Today the house might go down instead of up. Employment less secure. Savings near zip. Retirement threadbare. Too much wind in our faces.

#85 The General on 10.27.22 at 11:46 pm

#55- Russian troll says the man. As if what I suggested was some commie plot? Tell me your peace plan, boss.
#62- c.e.f: The gas station masquerading as a country sure was underestimated by….every talking head in the west. And their loyal minnions. Like you, for instance. Cheers!

#86 The General on 10.27.22 at 11:55 pm

#55- DELETED, Russian troll: If being anti-war is to be a troll, I stand guilty, your lordship.

#87 yvr_lurker on 10.28.22 at 12:52 am

#84
Can’t see us doing all that in today’s climate on our current income. Our house was 1.37X our income back then, closer to 4X today. That alone would totally kill off our ability to do all that we have. Today the house might go down instead of up. Employment less secure. Savings near zip. Retirement threadbare. Too much wind in our faces.
———
I resonated with the story. In the Canada of the past yours was a story that was probably similar to many people who came from humble roots but did well in the end and were able to create a good life for their families and have some assets and a bright future. Somehow not the doable path for those who start with little in the new Trudeau’s version of Canada.

#88 advice on 10.28.22 at 2:02 am

#146 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 10:33 am
#14 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 3:01 pm
#42 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 5:52 pm
#64 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 8:36 pm
#70 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:14 pm
#71 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:23 pm
#77 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:57 pm
#79 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 10:12 pm
#84 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 11:24 pm

Add maybe 20% for the hidden posts? Get off the booze, on your meds, and in to see a shrink.

#89 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 7:21 am

In from the wintry Snowcrest for some days of shameless luxury, Montana-style. It appears to have been an eventful financial- and blog week in my absence. Items of great import as follows:

Elon buys Twitter, firing a bunch of folks and rocketing the stock. This should be fun. As always, in Elon we trust.

Interest rate increases slow and the recession is officially canceled. Who doubted? The economy is going gangbusters. Assets are on sale.

An addled blogdog appears to have again exposed abusive tendencies and disappeared from these hallowed grounds. So nice. Blissful. Many thanks to our fine, poised and erudite ladies Jag and the Boot for their excellent restraint. It would be my honour to invite both for drinks, a celebratory dance, and good conversation in the spa at Big Sky Lodge. Fancy boots highly recommended.

It appears, at least in the US that progressives’ outlandish antics have reached a state of such unrestrained profligacy that the centrist majority will almost certainly take leadership in the near future and provide firm, mature guidance for years to come. Tolerant we are, yes… but now, adult guidance is strongly needed.

All is well. Stability returns, at least here in the west. Good people.

#90 the Jaguar on 10.28.22 at 7:40 am

NP Snippet for Garth:

“Canada’s top income earners pay more than half of the total taxes collected by all levels of government, according to a new report from the Fraser Institute.

The report notes that increasing taxes on the wealthy is often pitched as a populist measure, with progressive politicians claiming the rich don’t pay their fair share, and that fiscal problems can be solved by boosting taxes on the wealthy.

In the last federal election, for example, Jagmeet Singh’s New Democrats proposed a special tax for those earning more than $10 million per year.

However, the report, which uses a tax simulation the Fraser Institute developed, says that the 20 per cent of Canadian families with an income of more than $227,486 actually pay 61.4 per cent of income taxes and 53 per cent of the country’s total taxes. That would include taxes such as payroll tax, sales tax and property tax.

“High-income families already pay a disproportionately large share of all Canadian taxes,” it says.”

#91 oops on 10.28.22 at 7:46 am

I was curious as to why your comment numbers were so low recently, Garth. Then I realized no Sail Away OR Faron.

And the blog still goes on? Shocked!

#92 Dharma Bum on 10.28.22 at 8:05 am

#78 yvr_lurker

If it gets bad at least I can walk around the corner and legally buy any cannabis products that I might need…. there are 3 such shops within a 10 minute walk of my house… Yippee!
———————————————————————————————————

A 10 minute walk???!!!

That’s a marathon for a stoner.

Used to be the dealer would come right to my front door.

Any time.

Man, customer service is going down the drain. AMIRITE?

#93 TurnerNation on 10.28.22 at 8:53 am

Modern Day Slavery? RIP Middle Classes.

Mort-gauge carrying costs up almost 1500% this year (per this weblog)
My province helpfully eliminated the rent controls for those buildings 2018 or newer. Landlords can extract almost unlimited increases.

This is all to say , people will own nothing (and be happy??)
Just another step in Global WW3 — kicked of March 2020.
‘They’ll stone you just like they said they would; everybody must get stoned’ (B. Dylan)

Trust the (economic) Science!

#94 TurnerNation on 10.28.22 at 9:09 am

Yoohoo Dolce…what’s scary is our global rulers declaring war on carbon. Hint hint WE are the carbon-based lifeform they wish gone. March 2020 kicked off the global control over our Feeding, Breeding and Movement/Travel. For our health of course.!

——
BTW if you wonder why TWTR or META/FB Stonks are down, watch these clips.
TECH companies are, basically Adult Dare Care Centres.
A lifetime of infantile dependence upon Government and Big Global Tech (de facto government).
Obedience, wag wag wag.
Corporate Kommunism. After all the Corps. were enlisted to enforce the mandate. Total global control.

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1585395267552960512
This is “a day in the life of a Twitter employee.” No wonder @elonmusk
is firing 75% of them

https://twitter.com/fweedomfightaw/status/1585585632587415553
Day in the day in the life of a 23 year old product manager at Meta

#95 IHCTD9 on 10.28.22 at 9:38 am

#87 advice on 10.28.22 at 2:02 am
#146 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 10:33 am
#14 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 3:01 pm
#42 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 5:52 pm
#64 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 8:36 pm
#70 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:14 pm
#71 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:23 pm
#77 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:57 pm
#79 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 10:12 pm
#84 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 11:24 pm

Add maybe 20% for the hidden posts? Get off the booze, on your meds, and in to see a shrink.
______

Haha! Don’t like my thoughts on Trudeau bro? That’s too bad.

He’s the worst PM in Canadian history. Better for you to just admit it.

#96 the Jaguar on 10.28.22 at 10:48 am

@#89 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 7:21 am
All is well. Stability returns, at least here in the west. Good people. +++

Hola Chamo! Enjoy the great state of Montana whose state motto is ‘Oro y Plata’.

#97 Vstrom Rider on 10.28.22 at 10:52 am

There’s a non-financial aspect to consider when comparing renting vs owning that was completely ignored in this analysis. When you own, you call your own shots. You don’t have some idiot landlord you have to beg for permission to do things such as paint a room. To me that’s worth paying a considerable premium for.

#98 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.28.22 at 10:56 am

Will Trump be allowed back on Twitter?
Just in time for the Mid Term elections?
Freedom of Speech, here we come.
Be careful what you wish for.

#99 Faron on 10.28.22 at 11:04 am

#89 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 7:21 am

Living rent free in your head would be cool if it wasn’t a dumpster fire.

#100 Old Boot on 10.28.22 at 11:19 am

#89 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 7:21 am

“… Fancy boots highly recommended.”

—————–

I’ll get the goose grease out and apply a fresh coat to my sturdy hikers.

Will I need to iron my good flannel shirt, or is the dress code only semi-formal?

And can you polka?

#101 Shawn on 10.28.22 at 11:26 am

Dragon fly 58 at 63 asked what he should have done different.

Steady upgrades of my qualifications and far more on my plate at work each year, but the income steadily fell off. The longer you play, the bigger the shortfall.

**********************************
Your story is all about your earnings from labour not keeping up with inflation.

What you should have done was to invest 10% or so of earnings each year so that you would create earnings from capital over time. By now (sounds like 3 decades or more) your earnings from capital would be higher than your earnings from labour.

Embrace your inner Rentier!

Also, did you forget to move to Alberta? Lower taxes and home prices and better opportunities most of the time make it so much easier to save that 10%.

#102 Old Boot on 10.28.22 at 11:31 am

#43 Nonplused on 10.27.22 at 5:55 pm

Wait… what??? He’s +190 and she’s -70? She better have a Master’s to show for it, seeing as she has no house. Sounds like Angela needs a better job and a serious intervention into her spending habits, not kids and a house. She is not displaying the sort of maturity required to manage a family. Her squeeze probably knows this though, which is why there is no ring on her finger.

———

You sound charming.

#103 RyYYZ on 10.28.22 at 11:32 am

#97 Vstrom Rider on 10.28.22 at 10:52 am
There’s a non-financial aspect to consider when comparing renting vs owning that was completely ignored in this analysis. When you own, you call your own shots. You don’t have some idiot landlord you have to beg for permission to do things such as paint a room. To me that’s worth paying a considerable premium for.
====================================

OTOH, as a renter, you don’t have any of the costs or hassles involved in maintaining the property. House needs a new roof? Or HVAC system? Or windows? Not your problem. There’s something to be said for that. I’m an owner, btw.

#104 Observer on 10.28.22 at 11:54 am

#95 IHCTD9 on 10.28.22 at 9:38 am
#87 advice on 10.28.22 at 2:02 am
#146 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 10:33 am
#14 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 3:01 pm
#42 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 5:52 pm
#64 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 8:36 pm
#70 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:14 pm
#71 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:23 pm
#77 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 9:57 pm
#79 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 10:12 pm
#84 IHCTD9 on 10.27.22 at 11:24 pm

Add maybe 20% for the hidden posts? Get off the booze, on your meds, and in to see a shrink.
______

Haha! Don’t like my thoughts on Trudeau bro? That’s too bad.

He’s the worst PM in Canadian history. Better for you to just admit it.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Have you been following the EA inquiry to date? Sure is obvious to anyone with half a functioning brain that our PM did the right thing while the “freedom” movement supporting CONS did not.

#105 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 11:55 am

#96 the Jaguar on 10.28.22 at 10:48 am
@#89 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 7:21 am

All is well. Stability returns, at least here in the west. Good people.

——–

Hola Chamo! Enjoy the great state of Montana whose state motto is ‘Oro y Plata’.

——–

Gracias! It’s a great state. We dragged toboggans up the mountain range to 8,000′ elevation in the remote Snowcrest Range and spike camped in a tent that turned into a full snow cave over the days. Saw hundreds of deer and elk and returned with 2 big elk bulls and a record-book muley.

Many shuttles back and forth with 700lbs of meat plus hides and heads in crazy deep snow. 3 solid days of hauling. After the first trip down, a wolf pack crossed the meat trail and followed it right back up to the carcasses. So cool watching the wolves, coyotes, foxes and ravens jockeying for position. No grizzlies!

We’re very tired, very happy, and greatly enjoying the hot rock massages.

#106 Rick on 10.28.22 at 12:15 pm

Do people really expect that they could buy condos, houses with no consequences and keep borrowing at the ridiculous variable mortgage rates at 0.99% to 1.15% just less than 2 years ago, December-2008, HSBC 0.99% mortgage rate promotion.

Come on Canadians, are you really that clueless about what you could afford and think that they were going to give you free money for all your lives. The 1,500% increase is from such low rates that they could not financially suppress anymore. You just voted in more politicians that will tax you on your real estate and consumption for many more years. Good luck Canadians.

#107 Quintilian on 10.28.22 at 12:18 pm

#97 Vstrom Rider on 10.28.22 at 10:52 am
You don’t have some idiot landlord you have to beg for permission to do things such as paint a room. To me that’s worth paying a considerable premium for.

If you have money you have agency, and you are the boss, not the idiot landlord.

If you have a mortgage 15 times your annual salary, your idiot boss at work owns you.

#108 Love_The_Cottage on 10.28.22 at 12:37 pm

Ford in hiding and the truth is coming out anyways. If we waited for the Ontario government to act the streets of Ottawa would still be blocked.

#TrudeauWasRight

P.S. I know geography was a tough subject Mr. Ford, but Ottawa is in Ontario.

#109 Don Guillermo on 10.28.22 at 1:39 pm

105 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 11:55 am
#96 the Jaguar on 10.28.22 at 10:48 am
@#89 Sail Away on 10.28.22 at 7:21 am

All is well. Stability returns, at least here in the west. Good people.

——–

Hola Chamo!
@@@@@@@@@
Chamo. Good one Jag. A favorite Vene word. I got Eduardo the young caretaker in our old complex using it. He loves it. We still greet with Chamo when we cross paths. He thinks it’s “Chèvre”!

#110 Brian on 10.28.22 at 1:55 pm

#104 Observer
Have you been following the EA inquiry to date? Sure is obvious to anyone with half a functioning brain that our PM did the right thing while the “freedom” movement supporting CONS did not.

Obvious parody!

#111 Ustabe on 10.28.22 at 1:59 pm

What a lovely time it has been recently, mostly on topic opinions expressed and discussed.

Now it looks like its back to cliquey old high school.

#112 Dragonfly58 on 10.28.22 at 2:13 pm

# 101 , Shawn. In hindsight I can only agree. But that 10% would have been very tight indeed during the mortgage , family expense years.
Unfortunately I grew up in a blue collar family and was told from a young age investing , except in yourself { education } and a house { possibly a second house , but I never earned enough to make that possible } was gambling. I only paid off my house within the last 10 years, prior to that I was pretty much down to pocket change by the end of most months.
Also , if I am not mistaken , many of the factors that make investing attractive today really did not exist in the 1980’s / 1990’s. TFSA’s , low cost online investment sales / purchases , ETF’s , etc. You were more or less at the mercy of what your broker wanted to sell you. Usually a comparatively high cost Mutual Fund.
As for Alberta, I have since retirement thought of it, but wife simply would not. Lower Mainland girl all her life with a large social / professional involvement in this geographic area. How much does a divorce cost these days? I worked in the Marine industry for most of my life , Alberta is a pretty long commute.
I probably could have transitioned to the Oil industry, but none of my Marine qualifications would have directly transfered so I would have been starting from square one regarding qualifications. Might have been a possibility if I moved before I was 35, but at that time I was doing reasonably well right here and Alberta was in quite a slump. Most of the people I knew that had lived , worked in Alberta were in the process of moving back to B.C.

#113 Shawn on 10.28.22 at 2:21 pm

Beating Inflation

My honey just back from the store with a few groceries.

She got two 2 kg packages of Rogers of white sugar for $5.00 total. 8.8 pounds. 57 cents a pound. Pretty much the cheapest thing in the grocery store.

So just eat mostly sugar and you can save big on groceries. Ironic that the worst thing for you is the cheapest.

I marvel too at how this is remotely possible. Imagine how many sugar beets it takes. Imagine the farming and the transport and the processing and the further transporting and now it’s on the shelf at 57 cents a pound. If you net $15 per hour take home you can buy 26 pounds of sugar for an hour’s labour.

Sure this might be a loss leader for this sale. But in general sugar is always one of the cheapest items in the grocery store.

Just wow! What an incredibly efficient system we must have to make this possible.

#114 Shawn on 10.28.22 at 3:11 pm

#112 Dragonfly58 on 10.28.22 at 2:13 pm

Thanks for the friendly and detailed response.

Sounds like you have done well actually. I hope you got a pension along the way.

Anyhow life is about more than accumulating wealth. At 62 I am starting to see some cousins and others die young from cancer.

Can’t change the past. No matter what, by age 60 (or earlier) we need to focus on being healthy. Eating better. Strength training. Some cardio. Also enjoy life as best you can while you can. Never get too bitter (which DragonFly is not). Life is not so bad for the vast majority of us.