The weird one

We now know all about the weird FHSA. Details below. It’s hard to believe a cash-strapped government would let citizens shelter $40,000 in funds they can deduct from taxable income, grow it tax-free for years, then withdraw it, without tax, to buy an asset yielding tax-free capital gains.

But the times are abnormal. Politicians are flummoxed. And the government is way behind the curve, now that higher rates have crashed real estate values.

But here we are. A most strange new investment vehicle that any adult who does not own a house (or has not for five years) or has a beneficial stake on one (like through your spouse) would be nuts not to exploit.

Now, before we tell you all the rules, this comment must be made. The FHSA is really, really, really bad public policy. On one hand the beleaguered, much-maligned, whipping-boy CB is aggressively raising interest rates and at the same time dumping bonds in an effort to reduce the demand for credit, slow the economy in a measured way and corral the worst inflation in four decades. That’s the monetary policy goal – to reduce stimulus.

At the same time the T2 government, labouring under the mythical premise we have too few houses in Canada, is lathering on fiscal stimulus with newbie-buyer tax breaks and now an unfathomable new shelter designed 100% to boost the ability of people to purchase homes, and thereby increase demand for real estate and loans.

Suck. Blow. Welcome to Canada.

Okay, so what is the FHSA and how do you play?

It’s a brand new tax shelter, like an RRSP or a TFSA, but enhanced. The annual contribution limit of $8,000 is 30% more than you’re allowed to stuff into a TFSA. Even better, as with an RRSP the money contributed to the home-saving thingy is deductible from taxable income. RRSP withdrawals are taxable, but not so with the FHSA. The total amount possible to contribute is forty grand, and all growth within the account is untaxed. In other words a high-income earner could plop eight thousand in annually, obtain a $4,000 reduction in tax, enjoy taxless growth within the plan, then withdraw it with no tax owing to buy real estate. Yes, it is outrageous.

Who can do this? Any Canadian resident between 18 and 71 so long as they do not own a house when opening the account, nor within the four preceding calendar years. As with a TFSA, you earn annual room just by living here. Income is irrelevant. The plan dies after 15 years, when the money, if unspent, can be transferred (no tax) to an RRSP or a RRIF and won’t reduce any room you have earned with a retirement account.

What goes in a FHSA? Anything that you can put in a TFSA – funds, stocks, bonds, GICs, trusts and a host of other stuff. Funds can be withdrawn to buy a house that is a principal residence (not a rental) with a written agreement of purchase and sale (or builder contract) for occupancy by October 1st the year after the withdrawal. By the way, you can’t use money from both a FHSA and your RRSP (under the Home Buyers Plan) at the same time.

Only those who have not owned a home for a few years may open a FHSA. Ownership is defined broadly, including ‘beneficial ownership’ which excludes you if your legal mate had a house in their name (even if you were not, or are not, on title).

What happens if you set up a FHSA and listen to Dr. Garth and remain a renter? Well, you still get to contribute a max of $40,000. You can still write all of that off your taxable income. You can enjoy tax-free growth within the plan for 15 years. And you can still shelter all of that by transferring it to your RRSP, regardless if you have room or not. Or, you can take the money and stick it in your bank account (or buy a used Tesla), but it will be included in annual income.

Other facts: the full $8,000 will be available to everyone in 2023, no matter when this plan is finally implemented. Unlike RRSPs, there is no grace period for contributions extending into the first 60 days of the next calendar year. And, yes, you can carry forward unused contributions – but only to an annul limit of $8,000.

Also remember you do not start accumulating FHSA room until you actually open an account (unlike with TFSAs, where room is automatically set aside for you, whether you have one or not). Like RRSPs, you can make a contribution to a FHSA and save the tax break for future use. So if you think you’ll be in a higher tax bracket in a year or three, contribute now and claim it later for a fatter tax break.

FHSA contributions can also be made in kind, as with other tax shelters. You can transfer money from an RRSP into the home-saving plan, without triggering any tax. Investment gains within the FHSA are not counted as income, and investment losses are not allowed to be claimed. You can fund your squeeze’s FHSA but the tax deduction must be claimed by them, not you. Attribution rules do not apply to income earned inside a plan that has been funded by someone else. If the marriage fails, FHSA assets can be divided and moved into the home-savings account or RRSP of your ex.

Finally, over-contributions are whacked with a 1%-per-month penalty (so don’t do it). If you croak, the FHSA can be assumed by your surviving spouse, but to do so you must declare them a ‘successor holder’, like the TFSA. Inheriting your partner’s plan would not diminish your own ability to have an account. Interest on money borrowed to fund an account is not tax-deductible. And if you emigrate you can still have a FHSA, but are unable to use the cash for real estate. Plus there will be a withholding tax on withdrawals. So stay here.

Well, that’s what we know so far. This is a really bad idea. And (if possible) you gotta have one.

About the picture: “I thought I’d offer up strange bedfellows from Vancouver Island,” writes Ryan. ” Gus , the 3 year old doodle mutt, and our 11 year old cat ’Squirt’. Gus loves everyone and everything, and Squirt doesn’t. But when there is a fire going, any personal space issues the cat may have are set aside. I’m surprised but glad you haven’t given up the blog just yet. When you do, I will raise a toast in your honour.”

147 comments ↓

#1 RainShowers on 08.18.22 at 3:10 pm

#53 SunShowers

I get paid to complete tasks required of me. If I am able to complete all the tasks in 4 hours instead of 9, is it my fault for being too efficient?

Let me have your manager and business owner’s contact info so we can disambiguate whether this is how they pay you. I suspect they are paying you for 8h to do as much productive work as you can in that time. They would otherwise be happy for you to leave the office after 4h and not stick around. Which they aren’t. Because they don’t.

You can choose to work whatever hours you want, but you shouldn’t work any less than what someone else is paying you for. That’s theft.

Starting your own business is always an option where you’ll likely work more than 8h and wish the same of your staff.

The recession is absolutely necessary to purge the woke cancer that has become in business. I can’t support Elon enough on that. All hands on deck if you want a pay cheque.

#2 Just in luck! on 08.18.22 at 3:13 pm

Justin gave us this. Justin is awesome.

Canada is surely a better place thanks to Justin’s work last 7 years, right?

Can you even imagine what Canada would be like today if he wasn’t our PM?

#3 Faron on 08.18.22 at 3:27 pm

Which one of you is Mike Pridham? Skulking around my LinkedIn account apparently. Also have a person in the O+G industry from Calgary looking around. Interesting.

#4 Andrewski on 08.18.22 at 3:27 pm

Excellent synopsis! What’re the pitfalls of a parent & current homeowner who doesn’t qualify for the FHSA, from opening an account in their adult child’s name and maxing out the contributions on their behalf? Of course this idea is predicated on trusting their offspring.

#5 C M on 08.18.22 at 3:27 pm

FHSA contributions can also be made in kind, as with other tax shelters. You can transfer money from an RRSP into the home-saving plan, without triggering any tax.
———————————————————–

Does this mean you can deduct the $8,000 from taxable income… twice?

No. – Garth

#6 PaminCyprus on 08.18.22 at 3:28 pm

Hi Garth,
Is the deadline to use the money 15 years from the opening of the account? the date of the first contribution or the date of the last contribution?
On what day will people be able to open an account?

#7 Johnny Dep on 08.18.22 at 3:29 pm

Aha!

#8 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.18.22 at 3:29 pm

#135 SunShowers on 08.18.22 at 9:43 am
#104 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.17.22 at 10:09 pm
“Lets hear how you measure your employees productivity”
Extremely easily.
Compare the tasks they were able to complete in a day in the office to the tasks they are able to complete in a day working at home.
————————-
What my Professor in UNI always said:
Read the QUESTION!
What you are “trying” to measure is efficiency not effectiveness.
This is not a WFH vs WFW question.
On what criteria do you base the bonus, if there is one?
Many bonuses are based on overall company performance.
Where does an individual employee fit in?
Lots of questions.
Nothing ever comes easy when humans are part of the equation.
Here’s an example.
When I worked for a bank, we had a loans officer who was a great salesman.
Always was on top of his peers.
Got promoted often and became a VP.
Then he was headhunted away.
And soon after he left, the person who replaced him found that most of the loans and mortgages that the “genius” approved were sub prime.
And they slowly become overdue and then defaulted, making the new guy look very bad and he was let go.
Scape-goated

#9 Sail Away on 08.18.22 at 3:31 pm

Let’s see… hmmm… a wealth-building, tax-saving tool to exploit?

Never has there been so clear a call to action for the Sail Aways. Appointments will obviously be scheduled as soon as the program activates.

Two kids plus a nephew and niece will qualify. Bam! A few more bricks in the dynastic masterpiece.

#10 Habitt on 08.18.22 at 3:33 pm

Great post. Thanks Mr T

#11 Paddy on 08.18.22 at 3:35 pm

All of this opportunity and people will still raise concern about affordability…what a country we live in. Pretty sweet deal if you’re a renter and plan on being one for the foreseeable future, it’s another tax shelter.

#12 CanadianOne on 08.18.22 at 3:35 pm

Good afternoon Garth!!

#13 Mel Bourne on 08.18.22 at 3:39 pm

In one statement you make “A most strange new investment vehicle that any adult who does not own a house (or has not for five years) or has a beneficial stake on one (like through your spouse) would be nuts not to exploit.”
In another statement, you make “You can fund your squeeze’s FHSA but the tax deduction must be claimed by them, not you.”

So what is it? If my spouse owns our house and I open a FHSA, can my spouse stuff it with $8K per year for 5 years ($40K)? After 15 years I can roll it into my RRSP.

#14 IHCTD9 on 08.18.22 at 3:40 pm

So would it make sense then for a 15 year old to open an account even if they have zip for income just to accumulate the 8K annual room?

#15 Quintilian on 08.18.22 at 3:44 pm

https://fortune.com/2022/08/17/china-property-crisis-housing-bubble-viral-video-official-says-buy-homes/amp/

Tick Tock, Tick Tock

#16 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 3:45 pm

Great info on the FHSA

But WHEN will this stimulate housing demand? (Which agreededly is a bad thing to do)

Surely it will after 5 years when the $40k tax deductible savings can be withdrawn tax free. And then only that soon for those who do $8000 per year.

Not much point to do $ k in 2023 and buy a house in 2024 saving like $3k in income tax.

What of my two sons in Edmonton where homes are still cheap and they may be ready and able to buy soon? Should I now tell them to wait and build this up for at least a few years? Nah, that’s silly for about $3k a year in tax savings or whatever.

This program appears best for committed renters who will let it grow for 15 years and then move it to RRSP.

As far as tax free growth, very few young people are mazing out their TFSAs back to age 18 in any case so the tax free growth is moot for most, they can do it in TFSA.

So the BIG benefit here is the $3 to $4k income tax savings in a land where houses cost $400k minimum typically.

I totally agree this is horrible policy. A huge administrative burden. And mostly a nothing burger in terms of buying a house.

In this case I will give my son’s Garth’s advise: Buy a house when you want one and it won’t tie you down (no plans to move) and you can afford it.

#17 Ede on 08.18.22 at 3:53 pm

Sounds pretty good…I get 8k and the wife gets 8k contribution limit next year right?
Can we off set some capital gain tax with this?

#18 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 3:53 pm

P.S.

I spelled advice wrong just to see who is awake.

And okay my kids are about 27 and potentially ready to buy soon and not wait five years. (Again we are in Edmonton)

This whole think might make a lot more sense for kids aged 18 to 25 or whatever where the parents will fund the $8k. But wait, that only makes sense if the kids are earning enough money to get a tax break.

Okay so maybe ideal is start the program just after college / trade school or whenever they start working full time and it will likely need to be funded by the parents since most young people won’t be able to afford.

Again, I just seem limited use here.

Another program where parents need to get involved in most cases. My two have pretty good incomes but no $8k left after they pay rent and living costs.

Just another encouragement of helicopter parent and failure to launch. Guess if your young adult kids don’t move out they might afford it. Then again kids who don’t move out tend not to have good jobs in MOST but not all cases.

I wish they would cancel this right now. ABORT.

#19 Pinko on 08.18.22 at 3:53 pm

is it 40K per person or per couple?

Individual. – Garth

#20 Nonplused on 08.18.22 at 3:54 pm

What a hair-brained idea. What next? The FTBA (First Tesla Buyer’s Account)? How about the FSBA (Solar), FHVSA, (Hawaii Vacation), or the FRVBA? Why single out houses? We need all the other things too.

But yes, if you are eligible, take advantage of it. It is sort of like if you make it on the life boat you don’t worry about those who are drowning.

#21 wuhan we got y'all in check on 08.18.22 at 3:57 pm

$8000 for me and I can give $8000 to my wife and the refund will cover 2 to 3 months rent – not bad. Plus the tax free growth on top of that.

I hate paying tax.

#22 None on 08.18.22 at 4:00 pm

Yeah, terrible program which I’m all set to use.

Let’s do the math.

Put in 8K per year for 5 years. Assume I get 35% back. That means after 5 years I’ve REALLy only put in $26,000 and with an expected return at 7% the account is now worth: $48,492.28

Let that do it’s magic for another 10 years at 7% and final value is $95,391.65 – TAX free.

#23 Fiscal Conservative on 08.18.22 at 4:08 pm

Thank you, Garth!

#24 Søren Angst on 08.18.22 at 4:11 pm

Retrograde Canada.

They come to complain here about high inflation but hey, give them a handout to stoke it even more…out come the hands…

“Please, sir, may I have some more please?”

Carpetbaggers the lot of you.

——–

Speaking of self serving, 2 Turisti decide to e-foil on Canal Grande in Venezia. €25,000 confiscated boards + €1,500 fine each + Public Prosecutor not done with them yet.

Overview + video + Venetian furor:

https://www.open.online/2022/08/17/venezia-giovani-sfrecciano-sci-acqua-canal-grande/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62579165 [English quasi-wrath]

Don’t laugh too hard Canada. Your compatriots as recent as a few years ago decided to go on a €450 dip in Trevi Fountain, Rome thinking they were Anita Ekberg and Marcello Mastroianni in Fellini’s La Dolce Vita:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/selfie-fight-trevi-fountain/index.html
https://youtu.be/gWQUSZezhbg?t=112

———————

And you think you have problems Go Home Cottage Country, well, come to Italia and you will find that what you have to put up with is pedestrian.

#25 Just another on 08.18.22 at 4:14 pm

Trudeau scam for his preferred prey, young libtards

#26 Linda on 08.18.22 at 4:23 pm

Horrible policy? Yes. But I do see one possible silver lining. All those who might not set aside any $ in a TFSA or RRSP just may be able to scrape up the annual $8K for a FHSA because you know, RE addiction. Same principle as all those who say they can’t afford to save ‘x’ yet always manage to find the $ to purchase drugs/alcohol/cigarettes/junk food/caffienated beverage of choice on a daily basis. So maybe the savings rate will skyrocket & if folks don’t manage to purchase RE within the 15 year timeframe, switch those $ to their RRSP/LIRA. For anyone who doesn’t currently own or intend to own yet already has maxed out their RRSP/TFSA contributions, this is manna from heaven! They get to pass Go AND collect $200 or in this case the benefit of a whacking big tax write-off on their taxable income plus the ability to supercharge their retirement savings if they decide against purchasing any RE with the funds in question.

#27 truefacts on 08.18.22 at 4:24 pm

Garth, does this mean a couple can set aside $16k/year or a total of $80,000 together for a house?

#28 SW on 08.18.22 at 4:26 pm

Love it. Me and my squeeze are high income renters. We are the only people to really benefit so it’s totally unfair. But hey, I’ll take it.

#29 West New West on 08.18.22 at 4:30 pm

When I was fresh out of University, full of pomp and ego, drafted to a major corporation…we too thought we were business geniuses. We came up with all these complicated ideas of how to make money but they were constantly killed by upper management for not making any sense at all in the grand scheme of things….this was how we learned to keep things simple. This is what our man child socks and the rest of his ilk need….upper management…..to tell them to stop coming up with complicated crap like this. If this is the only way you can save a measly 40K, then maybe you should not be owning a home. Just think of all the additional cost of all the extra paper pushers required to implement this…..paid for by the rest of us.

And this is negative….but….$40K. What difference, if any, is 40K going to make?1

#30 Sail Away on 08.18.22 at 4:31 pm

#16 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 3:45 pm

As far as tax free growth, very few young people are mazing out their TFSAs back to age 18 in any case so the tax free growth is moot for most, they can do it in TFSA.

———

Or both TFSA and FHSA. The money is stockpiled, hopefully invested properly, and available, so no downside to maxxing out both.

In our family, we strongly believe in supporting the next gens by maxxing out every possible benefit, definitely while they’re minors, but also as adults since the early adult years are hectic with travel, new jobs, new marriage, new family, new house, etc…

If the kids can’t max, but you can help without restricting your future? Give it. If you can’t, hopefully the more extended family can. The kids’ll get it anyway when you croak, so better to give now and reap the tax break.

And by ‘you’, I mean anyone, not actually you.

#31 DC on 08.18.22 at 4:33 pm

Colonel Klink (for those of you who are old enough to remember) would be less inept.

#32 jimmy zhao on 08.18.22 at 4:34 pm

At the moment, I have no interest in buying a house, however I certainly am keen on ‘gaming the FHSA’ to get some tax breaks, and tax free gains.

#33 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.18.22 at 4:43 pm

Oh, my my my

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/longtime-trump-executive-weisselberg-plead-guilty-tax-fraud-scheme-2022-08-18/

The rats are escaping the sinking S.S. Trump

#34 DMC on 08.18.22 at 4:44 pm

Why not just max out your RRSP and TFSA…bringing you to about $35,000 in savings for the year. I work in the industry and not many people save more than that anyways unless they’re business owners, in which they’re leaving it in their corps anyways.
I don’t see how this benefits anything unless you plan on waiting 10 years and actually buying a house. All other strategies are pointless.

#35 JT Dawg on 08.18.22 at 4:46 pm

JT reduced the TFSA from 10K to 5500 when he came into power!

Now he gives away 8K with HBSA.

YEP, makes sense.

Contribute to RRSP 8K get a tax credit.
Transfer from RRSP to HBSA 8K get another tax credit.
Earn free money tax free, more free money

Imagine you work for the government and are already receiving a huge tax incentive because your income is artificially low due to your future income (AKA pension) isn’t taxed until the future. As a result you are always in a lower tax bracket.

JT buying votes.

#36 Felix on 08.18.22 at 4:50 pm

The weird one is on the left.

(The cat is right. Always.)

#37 Brett in Calgary on 08.18.22 at 4:54 pm

The lifetime maximum per person is 40K. You get there after 5 years of 8K contributions. So yes 16K per year, per couple as per the ownership caveats.
——————————————-
#27 truefacts on 08.18.22 at 4:24 pm
Garth, does this mean a couple can set aside $16k/year or a total of $80,000 together for a house?

Yes. – Garth

#38 CJohnC on 08.18.22 at 4:57 pm

18 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 3:53 pm
P.S.

I spelled advice wrong just to see who is awake.
~~~~~~~~~

I would have thought you used “agreededly” just to see who is awake…….no such word….

Just bad English

#39 Cash is King on 08.18.22 at 4:58 pm

The beauty of experience is knowing what to expect.

#40 45north on 08.18.22 at 5:08 pm

Okay, so what is the FHSA and how do you play?

if you’re Justin Trudeau, you play it like a violin.

Faced with the ongoing collapse of the real estate market, the loss of equity, the crippling burden of mortgages and the serious hurt to general prosperity, you say “the government’s new FHSA plan gives Canadians a chance to own a house”. Like a violin.

#41 WTF on 08.18.22 at 5:08 pm

Like Jimmy Zhao

I will avail myself of this idiotic attempt at vote buying to reduce our income even further.

Politicians just cant leave well enough alone gotta “improve” by diddling without being concerned about impacts. Wont hep Little Potato cause just about everyone lothes him by now.

#42 DON on 08.18.22 at 5:10 pm

#3 Faron on 08.18.22 at 3:27 pm
Which one of you is Mike Pridham? Skulking around my LinkedIn account apparently. Also have a person in the O+G industry from Calgary looking around. Interesting.
************

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7dnnj/alberta-oil-foreign-agent

“Alberta’s ‘Energy War Room’ Now Wants to ‘Influence’ US, New Documents Show”

Come to Alberta for some 1984 brain readjustment. Come all from Ontario and BC. The promised land awaits you…

#43 mike from mtl on 08.18.22 at 5:16 pm

Do you HAVE to purchase physical RE to liquidate that goofy account?

Also seems like the FHSA 8k income deduction is exclusive of the RSP yes?

#44 Greg on 08.18.22 at 5:16 pm

#35 JT Dawg on 08.18.22 at 4:46 pm
JT reduced the TFSA from 10K to 5500 when he came into power!

Now he gives away 8K with HBSA.

YEP, makes sense.

Contribute to RRSP 8K get a tax credit.
Transfer from RRSP to HBSA 8K get another tax credit.
Earn free money tax free, more free money

I don’t believe a transfer from an RRSP to a FHSA will be tax deductible.

#45 Jim Taylor on 08.18.22 at 5:20 pm

2 questions.

1. Do i need to use the FHSA to purchase a home when i do buy one or can i just transfer to RRSP at that point?

2. If i do a transfer in kind, from my RRSP can i still claim the income tax deduction of 8000 from my FHSA for that year? that would be amazing

You can transfer, but the money is now taxable inside the RRSP. And, no, of course not. – Garth

#46 Chameleon on 08.18.22 at 5:21 pm

The Meowing has returned.

I has been __2__ day(s) since a dog photo.

All dogs and no cats make Garth a dull boy.

(Nice move having the dog photobomb.)

#47 Reality check on 08.18.22 at 5:27 pm

DC on 08.18.22 at 4:33 pm
Colonel Klink (for those of you who are old enough to remember) would be less inept.
—————

Or Sargent Schultz as a stand in for all the millennial Trudeau lovers.

“I know nothing, I see nothing”

#48 Morshius on 08.18.22 at 5:37 pm

Small money….one would be better off to move somewhere warmer with lower taxes. Dubai sounds good with zero tax! The net savings will be much more than this chickenfeed tax break. Btw Garth, after your rant for people to get back to the office, wondering if “quiet quitting” will become the new norm?

#49 Victor Llearna on 08.18.22 at 5:38 pm

Just implementing and administering the FHSA probably costing taxpayers at least a billion dollars. We need a government that stops messing around where it doesnt belong. Best would be to minimize govt and get rid of income taxes all together, making programs like TFSA RRSP useless. While they are at it could lose EI and the CPP, more govt interference we do not need. billions and billions wasted administering those things.

#50 COVID Variant Math on 08.18.22 at 5:39 pm

Interesting stuff, but I’ve watched the market segment that I’m interested in collapse by around $80K since March. Another $100K and I might, maybe, get off the sidelines. Or not. Depends if the knife is still falling.

Justin’s diddling on the fringe is mere piffelry compared to the math of the markets.

#51 Yorkville Renter on 08.18.22 at 5:42 pm

Great! where do I sign for this free $$$

so, an additional $16k tax break for my wife and I… and we won’t actually use the $$$ to buy unless we hit the jackpot on whatever we purchase.

15 years of tax free gains? yes please!

question – what happens if we contribute and buy a property with RRSP funds (or not)? does the account get closed?

No. – Garth

#52 Ned Nietzche on 08.18.22 at 5:43 pm

Meanwhile the government is creating eco-treadmills as an opiate for the masses. Peeps will be so busy walking and smoking refers that they will be oblivious to the futility of their meaningless lives

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20220817-canadas-new-700km-island-path

#53 Flop… on 08.18.22 at 5:55 pm

Well, I don’t have a RRSP, could go halves with Mrs Flop, but as one poster pointed out, for all the messing around I might as well just contribute straight to the RRSP, unless the rules evolve over time.

Condo Fees, topic on here recently.

In recent nights I have spoken to my Mum a couple of times for the first time in 20 years.

The first time was horrific, as she recounted events of the last week or so, I got no joy in that, but just wanted to show support.

The second phone call last night progressed a little bit more to her future plans and how she is going to take care of herself.

My parents bought a condo near the ocean 4 or 5 years ago.

I asked her what are the owners fees each month, which was basically a way of asking if she’s alright for money.

She started talking Dingo Lingo, and even though I grew up in Australia, I had no idea what she was talking about Body Corporate Fees, I tried to equate to Home Owners Association Fees, but I think there are differences.

My Mum said the fees were reasonable when the purchased, but have since exploded upwards.

She said she has to pay well over 10k a year for building maintenance and building insurance but that doesn’t cover her unit, and on top of this has to pay utilities and other stuff, so I’d guess she’s probably going to have to come up with 20k a year, before she has her first meal.

Things are obviously still raw at the moment, but she at least is not prepared to let the unit bleed her dry as she said at some stage she’s open to selling and moving to a smaller, cheaper unit.

Renting?

I don’t think either of my parents ever did, maybe somewhere down the line, a small ground floor unit managed by a reputable rental agency might be an option though…

M48BC

#54 Crystal ball futurist on 08.18.22 at 6:06 pm

With 70% of Canada already owning a house, only 30% of us can open this account.
Amongst the 30% of us poor ones, how many can find 8k lying around?

#55 Johnny Debt on 08.18.22 at 6:06 pm

#7 Johnny Dep

Aha!

>>>

Take me on!

#56 MDQ on 08.18.22 at 6:11 pm

What happens if you buy a house in 2023/24?
Can you continue contributing?

No. – Garth

#57 West Coast on 08.18.22 at 6:12 pm

So…. What if I own only a vacant piece of property with no house on it? Can I set up an FHSA to fund the build of a principle residence?

Yes. – Garth

#58 Calgary Cowboy on 08.18.22 at 6:14 pm

Thanks for writing Garth. A daily reprieve from the madness of the world is found on your site.

Can a person open a FHSA before they are eligible to use one? i.e. I sold a home in 2021, but I’d like to open an account so the $8000 per year can begin accumulating

Nope. – Garth

#59 TurnerNation on 08.18.22 at 6:16 pm

#59 Flop… on 08.17.22 at 6:03 pm

^^ If you’ve been to AB you know the problem there, that is the Albertans themselves.
Else from which/who where those Buffalo jumping — and smashing their heads — to get away? They knew. ‘Shawn’ even is sent here to try and pump this pathetic place, with it’s necessarily low house prices. :-)

—–
Travel — control over. Yes travel via electric car is for the rich. Soon to be the only travel method, by permit.
$20,000 retrofit for chargers into your kando parking space.
https://www.blogto.com/tech/2022/08/toronto-condos-ev-chargers-parking-spots-expensive/

—— — We are this close to 2019 normal guys! It’s not like this is designed with permanence or anything.

https://westphaliantimes.com/quebec-government-buying-up-additional-30-million-masks-for-school-children-and-staff-preparing-for-return-of-mandatory-masking/
Quebec government buying up additional 30 million masks for school children and staff, preparing for return of mandatory masking

#60 Leo Trollstoy on 08.18.22 at 6:21 pm

Is FHSA per individual or per household?

Can wife & I have $16k contribution room?

#61 Mark on 08.18.22 at 6:23 pm

“By the way, you can’t use money from both a FHSA and your RRSP (under the Home Buyers Plan) at the same time.”
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL WHAT?????

Ok so lete get this straight. this plan is for…people who are so broke, they don’t even have $8k in their rrsp (otherwise they’d be better off using that)….so they can get in to half a million, 1 million, 1.5 million….of debt?

absolutely….incredibly……unbelievably….nonsensical. I just lost 10 iq points learning about this.

#62 BCWally on 08.18.22 at 6:30 pm

Just curious if this applies to pre-built modular homes, which may or may not end up on a private lot.
Not a bad alternative for a young or old couple renting. It’s about $175K for a modular, which you could put in a trailer park for a number of years until you get a lot for it.

#63 Surf city on 08.18.22 at 6:35 pm

Reminds me of how I spent the last 7 or so years at my workplace … a big GTA OMERS customer (no names … no pack drill). After several years of continued effort, I became disenchanted with the work environment, and more specifically my supervisor and manager, and just spent the better part of my day surfing on the internet.

How could I do that, you ask? Easy-peasy. I worked in IT and most of what I was interested in at that time was IT based. So even though I was being monitored by the “powers that be”, nothing was ever flagged. I just needed to stay one step ahead of my boss(es) … which I became quite proficient at doing. An argument could be made that I still managed to achieve more in those rare hours that I worked than many of my colleagues.

So yes, probably cost them a $1M all totalled … salary, pension, etc., but they have a $1B+ budget, so nobody would be gravely concerned. No regrets at all. The only thing that would have made it better would have been WFH … lol, but this was in a pre-COVIDian era.

FYI, my supervisor and manager were both “fired” over the course of my time working there. And my director in the unit that I worked seems to have been “removed” under questionable circumstances shortly after I left. So, literally, the next three steps in my chain of command were let go. In an organization that rarely gets rid of anyone if you kept your nose clean!

#64 ogdoad on 08.18.22 at 6:36 pm

The weird one?

Compared to what?

Og

#65 Tony on 08.18.22 at 6:44 pm

I sold a house in 2021 so I have to wait until 2026. I turn 71 in 2029. So I can put in $32,000. Technically I’m not 72 until October 2030. I wonder if I can put in another $8,000 at the beginning of 2030?

#66 Reality is stark on 08.18.22 at 6:45 pm

Home ownership is indeed the Holy Grail.
Tell that to the guy or gal that bought 7 months ago and is now down $600,000.
His or her life is over.
Why put in place any policy subjecting a person to the vagaries of the market? Isn’t the government supposed to support financial prudence which is a balanced portfolio?
Just try and convince a partner that you are a great catch 600 G’s in the hole.
Rent and build a balanced portfolio unless you can buy a shell and strap on the tool belt pouring 30 hours a week into the house on top of your job.
They started this stupid program during the height of the pandemic encouraging people to make the worst financial decision of their lives.
A completely ill-conceived idiotic policy for our financially illiterate populace.
Paying that debt back with interest is more than a lesson, it’s a death sentence.
Another socialist kill the people with kindness policy.

#67 OK, Doomer on 08.18.22 at 6:50 pm

#56 MDQ on 08.18.22 at 6:11 pm
What happens if you buy a house in 2023/24?
Can you continue contributing?

No. – Garth

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That is a great comment; the implications are quite astounding, when you stop and think about it.

If the market is dropping, Trudeau’s program might actually make it more attractive for first timers to stay OUT of the market for a few years and keep building their nest egg.

Massive backfire, anyone? This program could actually knock first time buyers out of the market, but this time willingly, rather than entice them to buy. The program PAYS buyers to stay on the sidelines.

Is there no one in the government who understands people??

#68 Tony on 08.18.22 at 6:50 pm

Re: #54 Crystal ball futurist on 08.18.22 at 6:06 pm

Maybe the amount will be increased from $8,000 if inflation remains high. If real estate doesn’t fall a lot more or align with wages a lot of people will take to age 71 just to get a down payment together.

#69 Arctic Gringo: Qalunaaq on 08.18.22 at 6:53 pm

Listened in on the weekly TI call today. Interesting sub-discussion about Fibonacci Replacement Levels as part some technical analysis, and was something I have never heard of before this afternoon in the context of investing. Thanks for the education, RL(or was it DR?).

#70 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 6:57 pm

Use FTHB and wait ten years to buy a house?

#22 None on 08.18.22 at 4:00 pm
Yeah, terrible program which I’m all set to use.

Let’s do the math.

Put in 8K per year for 5 years. Assume I get 35% back. That means after 5 years I’ve REALLy only put in $26,000 and with an expected return at 7% the account is now worth: $48,492.28

Let that do it’s magic for another 10 years at 7% and final value is $95,391.65 – TAX free.

*******************************
“Agreededly” that sounds good. But in ten years the house prices could easily be up $200k or more and you spent ten more years earning the compete and utter distain of your mother-in-law.

Never let the government tell you when to buy a house. Your mother-in-law, however, you better listen to as well as to your spouse.

At $16k for a couple it does start to make maybe a little bit of sense. I mean if you are in any case planning to buy in three or five years then do it. Young people however seldom would plan five years of savings. Get on with it.

#71 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 7:06 pm

The Grape Deflation?

Sobeys in Cape Breton had grapes today at $2.49 a pound. Lowest I have seen in a long time.

Is this the thin edge of the deflation wedge?

Shop around people!

#72 PBrasseur on 08.18.22 at 7:09 pm

“Canada is a second rate country managed by third rate politicians”

Stephen Jarilowsky.

And getting worse…

#73 Linda on 08.18.22 at 7:14 pm

#43 ‘mike’ – no, there is no rule that says one must buy RE. What the current set up says is that if the funds in a FHSA are not used to purchase RE within 15 years of said fund being opened, once the 15 years are up the $ must either be declared as income OR can be rolled over into an RRSP/LIRA, thus deferring the tax hit. Even better, the $ DO NOT COUNT against one’s RRSP contribution limit! Hence my earlier comment that those who qualify for this can make out like bandits if the plan is to super charge their RRSP/LIRA while getting to claim yet another deduction from current earned income to boot.

The thing to remember is that once opened there is a time limit on taking advantage of a FHSA & anyone who currently owns a principle residence or is the partner of anyone who owns a principle residence is excluded from this deal.

#74 Quintilian on 08.18.22 at 7:22 pm

“This is a really bad idea.”
Don’t be so myopic Garth.

A bad idea? Yes and no,

It’s a good idea.

It will likely win some votes, maybe enough votes to keep the Conservatives out of office another term. And if costs money to keep the Cons out, whatever the amount- it’s money well spent.

Remember, the Cons incubated the housing bubble, the Liberals, forced by political realities, nursed it to full bloom, but they won’t be the ones with a needle in their hand when it bursts.

The market, the BOC, external events, the bubble crushed by its own weight etc ect, will take the blame.

The Libs will be viewed as the first responders when mayhem happens.

Think of the free money as “First Aid” but it’s not much of a cure for the seriously self harmed.

#75 Ronaldo on 08.18.22 at 7:28 pm

Funny that the very same gov’t that reduced the amount that could be put into a TFSA because supposedly only the rich will be able to take advantage of it, is the same gov’t that is now introducing another scheme that mostly only the rich will be able to take advantage. They’d be fools not to take advantage of it.

Not sure there are enough rich parents left after this next housing dump to fund this absolutely ridiculous scheme. What a bunch of buffoons we have leading this country.

#76 Sail Away on 08.18.22 at 7:32 pm

If it all gets too overwhelming, here’s a fine place on 10 acres in Montana:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1001-Round-Pole-Dr-Three-Forks-MT-59752/116361202_zpid/?

#77 RE_Investor on 08.18.22 at 7:34 pm

#66 Reality is stark on 08.18.22 at 6:45 pm
Home ownership is indeed the Holy Grail.
Tell that to the guy or gal that bought 7 months ago and is now down $600,000.
His or her life is over.
___________

lol, sounds like you got burned by FOMO, or you are just a doomsday fanatic!
Stop whining and start enjoying the home you bought with your partner. Start planning your family. I’m sure your home will be worth more down the road when you have to sell.

Been down $600k is probably the same as most other financial assets, but at least you have a roof over your head.

#78 Bezengy on 08.18.22 at 7:41 pm

All of these well meaning programs just get abused at taxpayers expense. There is a solution of course, which is to quit implementing them. How many times have I read articles like the one below?

https://www.thestar.com/amp/politics/provincial/2022/07/06/criminal-trial-of-ontario-bureaucrats-fired-in-alleged-11m-covid-19-fraud-to-begin-next-year.html

#79 millmech on 08.18.22 at 7:56 pm

Sail Away
I am not feeling too bad now exiting BBBY, crashing hard AH.
Arctic Gringo
Check out Fibonacci Trading by Carolyn Boroden to get acquainted with it, another good video on it is done by Hannah Fry It is called “Magic Numbers”
I am starting to read The Unlucky Investors Guide To Options Trading by Julia Spina

#80 the Jaguar on 08.18.22 at 8:03 pm

Thank you, Garth. You always drill down and provide the context, advantages and pitfalls of all these new ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’. Or ‘sheep in wolves’s clothing’, …well you know what I mean…

If something looks too good to be true, dig deeper.

#81 Unclear on 08.18.22 at 8:05 pm

There is one part i don’t quite get: can you transfer the funds from a FHSA to an RRSP anytime, or only after 15 years. Say i want to save 40k in the next 5-10 years, save the taxes and then leave Canada without buying a house. Can i transfer the money from my FHSA to my RRSP the year before leaving, or I need to wait 15 years? Thanks!

No waiting but you have made the funds taxable. – Garth

#82 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 8:16 pm

So how does it work?

Stocks down bigly = paper loss no problem will recover?

House down from purchase price and you don’t intend to sell equals negative equity and panic time?

Yeah I know the house is leveraged. But if you can make the payments even at higher rates things will be okay eventually. Life is full of mis-steps and what ifs. Can’t go back so keep moving forward and don’t beat yourself up if you over-paid for a house. It’s actually very much a first world problem. It’s not a major tragedy.

#83 DON on 08.18.22 at 8:23 pm

#71 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 7:06 pm
The Grape Deflation?

Sobeys in Cape Breton had grapes today at $2.49 a pound. Lowest I have seen in a long time.

Is this the thin edge of the deflation wedge?

Shop around people!

*****
The grapes are grown on a farm near Chernobyl?

#84 Lisa on 08.18.22 at 8:29 pm

Can a spouse contribute for themselves and a spouse earning less income, thus setting up two accounts which could be combined for a down payment on a joint property in the future?

Yes. – Garth

#85 Quintilian on 08.18.22 at 8:48 pm

Good afternoon, Crowdie,
We need some analysis here.

“Longtime B.C. Liberal MLA removed from caucus after questioning climate change science”

Where will the rednecks in your party find a home now, that the BC liberals ( who are actually right wing nutbars) have kicked this guy out caucus?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/john-rustad-removed-caucus-1.6555527

#86 PAddy the Baddy on 08.18.22 at 8:56 pm

Headline news on BNN today: Detached-home buyers emerge as prices drop: RE/MAX Canada.

#87 Wrk.dover on 08.18.22 at 9:05 pm

#66 Reality is stark on 08.18.22 at 6:45 pm
and strap on the tool belt pouring 30 hours a week into the house on top of your job.
______________________________

When I was 27, 42 years ago…..

Took me 6 months from batter boards and strings defining the perimeter, to a futon on the floor out of the back of the van, and the quad cranked to 8, playing Back in Black.

Had to pay an electrician for a day to make a tangle beside the box. That was the total paid out labor bill for the entire house.

What’s the big deal coming up with a house these days, anyhow?

Oh yeah, has to be near the mall….well, I’m still in the Middle Of No Where, now paying $1200/year property tax. Worth it.

#88 Ken From BC on 08.18.22 at 9:08 pm

I own a property that has a living quarters attached to it. It is not my principal residence, that I rent. The property is zoned commercial, not residential. I have not owned a residential property in the last 5 years. Do I qualify for the FHSA?

#89 Observer on 08.18.22 at 9:17 pm

#22 None on 08.18.22 at 4:00 pm
Yeah, terrible program which I’m all set to use.

Let’s do the math.

Put in 8K per year for 5 years. Assume I get 35% back. That means after 5 years I’ve REALLy only put in $26,000 and with an expected return at 7% the account is now worth: $48,492.28

Let that do it’s magic for another 10 years at 7% and final value is $95,391.65 – TAX free.

—————
TAX free only if you use it to buy a house.

#90 Observer on 08.18.22 at 9:20 pm

#5 C M on 08.18.22 at 3:27 pm
FHSA contributions can also be made in kind, as with other tax shelters. You can transfer money from an RRSP into the home-saving plan, without triggering any tax.
———————————————————–

Does this mean you can deduct the $8,000 from taxable income… twice?

No. – Garth

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The FHSA gives you a way to withdraw money out of your RRSP tax-free, so long as you use it to buy a house.

#91 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.18.22 at 9:23 pm

BC Govt workers strike numbers.
They are negotiating a 3 year contract.
Current Budget for BC Govt workers:
$38.5 BILLION per year.

The govt is offering a 10% wage hike ramped up over 3 years. ( 3.76 first year, 3.23 2nd year, 3 the 3rd year)
If they receive a:
1% wage hike per year.
$385 million more from taxpayers per year.

3% wage hike .
$1.155 Billion for the first year. (ramps up next 2 years

5% wage hike
$1.925 billion for the first year.

6% = $2.31 Billion first year.
7% = $2.69 Billion first year.

Glad to know my taxes are going uppa uppa uppa.

#92 Overheardyou on 08.18.22 at 9:49 pm

If you’re on reddit all you see is ‘housing crisis’ posts, the young ones seems to still think it’s a supply problem ha!

#93 DON on 08.18.22 at 10:17 pm

#91 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.18.22 at 9:23 pm
BC Govt workers strike numbers.
They are negotiating a 3 year contract.
Current Budget for BC Govt workers:
$38.5 BILLION per year.

The govt is offering a 10% wage hike ramped up over 3 years. ( 3.76 first year, 3.23 2nd year, 3 the 3rd year)
If they receive a:
1% wage hike per year.
$385 million more from taxpayers per year.

3% wage hike .
$1.155 Billion for the first year. (ramps up next 2 years

5% wage hike
$1.925 billion for the first year.

6% = $2.31 Billion first year.
7% = $2.69 Billion first year.

********&&
Juat wait till you hear what the short staffed nurses are asking for and then the teachers, etc. The gov has billions in budget continguences been reading into it. This is all about perception. BC Ferries has a couple years till their contract runs out and Seaspan is paying more.

#94 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.18.22 at 10:24 pm

#71 Shawn on 08.18.22 at 7:06 pm
The Grape Deflation?

Sobeys in Cape Breton had grapes today at $2.49 a pound. Lowest I have seen in a long time.

Is this the thin edge of the deflation wedge?

Shop around people!
——————-
Grapes are now in season.
Mine are getting ready.
Grow some in your backyard.
Against a fence, does not take much room.

#95 Cowtown Cowboy on 08.18.22 at 10:36 pm

Lots of pigs lining up to the trough….didn’t you just rant on a guy for getting gis….one man’s trash…

#96 Is anybody listening? on 08.18.22 at 10:46 pm

#85 Quintilian

1,107 Scientists & Professionals From Across The World Led By The Norwegian Physics Nobel Prize Laureate Professor Ivar Giaever Declare: “There Is No Climate Emergency”

https://clintel.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/WCD-version-06272215121.pdf

#97 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.18.22 at 10:51 pm

@#93 Don
“Just wait till you hear what the short staffed nurses are asking for and then the teachers, etc. ”

+++
Yep.
Taxes going uppa uppa uppa….even long after the inflation dragon has been slayed.

#98 Dazed and Confuscious on 08.18.22 at 11:02 pm

#66 Reality is stark on 08.18.22 at 6:45 pm
Home ownership is indeed the Holy Grail.
Tell that to the guy or gal that bought 7 months ago and is now down $600,000.
His or her life is over.

———————————————————–

Yup. Agreed. Might as well call it quits.

Declaring bankruptcy would even be worse … the blog daddy would never hire you to work for his outfit. So really, what’s the purpose of living once you are in that pickle?

#99 Eleanor Shellstrop on 08.18.22 at 11:04 pm

13 Mel Bourne on 08.18.22 at 3:39 pm

In one statement you make “A most strange new investment vehicle that any adult who does not own a house (or has not for five years) or has a beneficial stake on one (like through your spouse) would be nuts not to exploit.”
In another statement, you make “You can fund your squeeze’s FHSA but the tax deduction must be claimed by them, not you.”

So what is it? If my spouse owns our house and I open a FHSA, can my spouse stuff it with $8K per year for 5 years ($40K)? After 15 years I can roll it into my RRSP.

__________________

In funding your spouse’s FHSA, both of you can’t own your home (or can’t have owned one in the past 5 years).

So regarding your scenario – you can’t open a FHSA if your spouse owns your house.

#100 Doctor Know on 08.18.22 at 11:06 pm

#9 Sail Away on 08.18.22 at 3:31 pm
Let’s see… hmmm… a wealth-building, tax-saving tool to exploit?

Never has there been so clear a call to action for the Sail Aways. Appointments will obviously be scheduled as soon as the program activates.

Two kids plus a nephew and niece will qualify. Bam! A few more bricks in the dynastic masterpiece.

————————————————–

Which line will you be in? Scoundrels or Ne’er-do-wells?

#101 The Original Jake on 08.19.22 at 12:14 am

“Ownership is defined broadly, including ‘beneficial ownership’ which excludes you if your legal mate had a house in their name (even if you were not, or are not, on title).”

Is it “excludes” or should it be “includes”. My daughter lives with her boyfriend in his condo who is on title but she is not. Does she qualify for the FHSA?

#102 That Guy on 08.19.22 at 12:20 am

From an economy perspective this looks like Garth says: suck and blow.
From a political perspective, I think it makes sense. I do not like or trust Trudeau, but I do believe he thinks this will benefit him somehow. However, without an election coming the goodwill may be wasted!

#103 lund on 08.19.22 at 1:11 am

If I max out at 40K & my girlfriend maxes out at 40 K does that mean we can use 80K plus investment interest to buy a house ?

#104 DJT on 08.19.22 at 1:46 am

Red Grapes on sale $1.49/LB in Niagara(Freshco).
My sweet tooth is killing me.

#105 Summertime on 08.19.22 at 4:23 am

Suck. Blow. Welcome to Canada.

Yep.

Keep interest rates at zero for a very long time, creating runaway inflation.
Lie about inflation.
‘Insure’ crappy mortgages.
Ensure the sheeple is badly indebted and the banks have record profit
Give every incentive possible to stimulate increase in house prices.

Blame someone else.
Rinse and repeat .

#106 Joe Lalonde on 08.19.22 at 4:38 am

We’re currently in a system of redundancy…
Rather than fix the problem our governments are trying to achieve, they just added to it rather than close that program or system. Insurance is a redundant system that was supposed to be replaced by our social safety net. Instead, the corruption just added it on.

Nothing is truly getting fixed, just adding more funding and bureaucracy to this broken system.

#107 under the radar on 08.19.22 at 4:39 am

95- I agree with you. GIS dude who structures his affairs to live poor , companies who took 10k CERB gift and did not need it , now this for some who will never buy or already own and look for an angle to qualify. For certain, the just getting by on a pay cheque crowd will hardly have the additional cash to make this pay. It’s lonely on top of the moral high ground.

#108 Jerry Deal on 08.19.22 at 4:59 am

I love saving tax free so count me in. Where and when do we apply please? Can it be done online? T a bank thing? I’d like to get started.

#109 Double trouble on 08.19.22 at 5:05 am

If the max RHSA $80,000 was to double or treble or more inside the account is the capital gain tax free?

#110 Prince Polo on 08.19.22 at 7:27 am

#153 Faron on 08.18.22 at 2:55 pm
#121 Prince Polo on 08.18.22 at 5:17 am
Plz don’t mix baseball and bowling metaphors. Thx.

Bowling doesn’t have strikes? Only spares and gutterballs for you? Thx!

#111 Shawn on 08.19.22 at 7:43 am

#104 DJT on 08.19.22 at 1:46 am

Red Grapes on sale $1.49/LB in Niagara(Freshco).
My sweet tooth is killing me.

********************************
So deflation is getting rampant! Yes, it is seasonal.

But I think the $2.49 grapes in Cape Breton were imported to Canada and certainly came a long way by truck.

Not sure if Niagara grows many table grapes?

#112 Shawn on 08.19.22 at 7:54 am

Someones dispute Climate Emergency?

#96 Is anybody listening? on 08.18.22 at 10:46 pm
#85 Quintilian

1,107 Scientists & Professionals From Across The World Led By The Norwegian Physics Nobel Prize Laureate Professor Ivar Giaever Declare: “There Is No Climate Emergency”

https://clintel.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/WCD-version-06272215121.pdf

******************************
Oh come on, how many times has this blog demonstrated that one can torture the data to give the desired answer to anything?

Rent versus buy – competing calculations

RRSP versus TFSA

Inflation (how high) versus wages

Who won the election (sure Trudeau won but with a minority of votes blah blah whine, whine)

And if competing calculations that leave out or include data to get the right answer does not work or you are lazy the – simply holler out that your position is right and all others are sheep. Or stage a trucker convoy.

These days we are all indeed entitled to our own facts. Remember Trump spokesperson’s Alternative Facts.

Analysis is now only as trustworthy as the person doing it.

#113 Steven Rowlandson on 08.19.22 at 8:15 am

“At the same time the T2 government, labouring under the mythical premise we have too few houses in Canada, is lathering on fiscal stimulus with newbie-buyer tax breaks and now an unfathomable new shelter designed 100% to boost the ability of people to purchase homes, and thereby increase demand for real estate and loans.”

Well there we have it. Increased demand for real estate and new loans. A sop for the banksters , realtors and real estate investors. More suckers for these privileged groups to financially abuse there by delaying the day of reckoning and restoration of financial common sense and decency. Governments clean up your own mess! Let the excesses of markets be purged by lack of demand and funding. If you don’t allow forest fires to burn out the dead wood you get firestorms. The same principle applies to the economy.
In nature nothing is linear. It is all cyclical… It is the same with all things in human affairs including the economy. You have to let the cycles work or you end up with even bigger problems.

#114 TurnerNation on 08.19.22 at 8:42 am

Somebody say Taxes?
After almost three years of nonsense and government spending this cannot be termed as an ‘accident’. It is permanent, structural. It’s almost like…a RESET effect was unleashed March 2020? Anyone, anyone??

“A month after an Ontario intensive care unit temporarily closed due to a “significant staff shortage,” the hospital has no timeline for when the ICU will re-open its doors. On July 28, Lakeridge Health said it made the “difficult decision” to temporarily relocate Bowmanville Hospital’s ICU and relocate care to the Ajax Pickering and Oshawa Hospitals.”
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-icu-closed-for-a-month-has-no-date-set-to-reopen-1.6032606


— From the Killing us Softly Dept.

.Ontario doctor charged with murder of four patients. His lawyers say COVID killed them (windsorstar.com)

.Opinion: Irreparable harm was incurred by visitation bans in long-term-care homes and must never be repeated (thestar.com)

. Ontario to fund more private clinic surgeries in bid to stabilize health-care system(thestar.com)

.‘It’s going to bankrupt health care’: Spending on temp agency nurses up more than 550% since pre-pandemic at one Toronto hospital network (thestar.com)

#115 IHCTD9 on 08.19.22 at 8:54 am

#74 Quintilian on 08.18.22 at 7:22 pm

It will likely win some votes, maybe enough votes to keep the Conservatives out of office another term.
____

True, I’ll probably vote Trudeau next election.

More Trudeau is cash in the bank for X’ers and Boomers. When the Libs win an election, I immediately hear beeep! beeep! beeep! all around the ‘hood from all the trucks backing up.

Get married, have 3-4 kids, vote Trudeau, and win. Never seen anything like it.

#116 Sail Away on 08.19.22 at 9:17 am

#100 Doctor Know on 08.18.22 at 11:06 pm

Which line will you be in? Scoundrels or Ne’er-do-wells?

——–

Rakes, rascals, rogues, scallywags and miscreants

#117 Shawn on 08.19.22 at 9:23 am

Recession Watch

The Retail sales report for June hit my inbox a minute ago.

Key points “In volume terms, retail sales were up 0.2% in June.” That would be versus May. Not versus June of 2021. Idiots at Stats Canada never make that clear but their default is to compare to prior month.

Shocking Point: Retail sales versus June last year are up 11% in nominal terms. I don’t see a volume figure.

Where is the money coming from? I guess last June we were still somewhat in lock down not much travel, restaurants not busy then, people still saving money.

At some point people getting 3% average wage increases can’t keep spending 11% or even 8% more.

Early indicator is that July retail sales fell 2% versus June.

Bottom line, no recession in sight yet. I think it has to come though as we “lap” months when the economy was fully open and see prices 10% or whatever higher than the lapped month. Consumers won’t keep up?

When did we fully open? Later Summer 2021 for the most part?

#118 Philco on 08.19.22 at 9:24 am

Blow suck gov. Clueless on all levels in my book.
Said it a hundred times.
My lawyer buddies can’t stand T2.

#119 Shawn on 08.19.22 at 9:26 am

Links and strange figures

I trust StatsCan to do their best but there are some strange figures.

They show retail sales in Toronto up 26% year over year in June. Really? Was Toronto locked down like China last June or something?

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220819/t001a-eng.htm

Here’s the press release with more links

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220819/dq220819a-eng.htm?CMP=mstatcan

#120 Is anybody listening? on 08.19.22 at 9:56 am

#119 Shawn
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220819/t001a-eng.htm

Notice the data is in total dollars in sales. Does inflation have any bearing in the numbers?

#121 Shawn on 08.19.22 at 10:07 am

Retail Sales and Inflation

#120 Is anybody listening? on 08.19.22 at 9:56 am
#119 Shawn
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220819/t001a-eng.htm

Notice the data is in total dollars in sales. Does inflation have any bearing in the numbers?

****************************
Right, inflation increases retail sales unless volume drops to offset it. So far, volume is holding up despite inflation.

#122 Shaun on 08.19.22 at 10:09 am

The objectives compared to the benefits of this program really seem to be at odds.
It is best to never buy a house and remain renting.
Maybe not a bad thing, help curb demand, help cut some froth.
End result leaving young people in a MUCH better position and without the burden of home ownership.

But then again, FHSA will only be used by the rich and renting, can’t wait to offload my house and take advantage in 5 years!

#123 Wrk.dover on 08.19.22 at 10:11 am

I wonder what today’s heat map looks like to the color blind. Any other day?

#124 Is anybody listening? on 08.19.22 at 10:21 am

#112 Shawn

Someones dispute Climate Emergency?

1936 North American heat wave
The 1936 North American heat wave was one of the most severe heat waves in the modern history of North America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_North_American_heat_wave

Where was Greta when we needed her?

#125 Manitoba Dan on 08.19.22 at 10:34 am

Could this be used for a portion of the down payment on a multi unit property assuming I move into one of the units?

It for residential only, not commercial. – Garth

#126 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.19.22 at 10:36 am

@#118 Philco
“My lawyer buddies can’t stand T2.”

+++
Not all lawyers.
I went to get my Will updated a year or so ago.
( Ponzie gets my used toothbrush).
The Lawyer had a signed photo of Trudeau and Family on his desk.
HUGE supporter of T2 .
I asked him if he liked paying higher taxes.
He laughed.

#127 IHCTD9 on 08.19.22 at 10:42 am

Looks like Vancouver residents are getting close to engaging in Vigilante Justice:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dtes-threat-letters-1.6552158

Post-Trudeau Canada is taking a dark turn. And I’m not talking about his makeup.

Probably only a matter of time before something terrible takes place out there. That’s what happens when you’ve got a delicate hands-off hard left government at every level. All talk, no action. Utterly powerless in the face of tough decisions.

At least I’m getting paid well by the Libs to watch the scuttling of Her Majesty’s once-good ship “The Canadian”.

Your rants are getting tedious. To what end? Are you supporting violence in the name of political change? If so, you are no longer welcome here. – Garth

#128 Russ on 08.19.22 at 10:46 am

Is anybody listening? on 08.19.22 at 9:56 am

#119 Shawn
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220819/t001a-eng.htm

Notice the data is in total dollars in sales. Does inflation have any bearing in the numbers?
================================

Toronto and Yukon are outliers.

Maybe it’s welfare cheques?

#129 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.19.22 at 11:09 am

126 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.19.22 at 10:36 am
@#118 Philco
“My lawyer buddies can’t stand T2.”

+++
Not all lawyers.
I went to get my Will updated a year or so ago.
( Ponzie gets my used toothbrush).
The Lawyer had a signed photo of Trudeau and Family on his desk.
HUGE supporter of T2 .
I asked him if he liked paying higher taxes.
He laughed.
———————————
He laughed……….
And charged you extra 100 bucks.
Who uses a Lawyer for a simple Will?

#130 Dharma Bum on 08.19.22 at 11:17 am

This FHSA thingy is racist, divisive, exclusionary, houseownerphobic, biased, selective, privileged, cliquish, and elitist.

Is there a group I can join to publicly protest this unwokeness?

Current Homeowners deserve extra tax shelters too!

Then again, the contribution limit on this pathetic scheme barely covers my property taxes, utilities, and wine bill.

#131 Dharma Bum on 08.19.22 at 11:25 am

#104 DJT

Red Grapes on sale $1.49/LB in Niagara(Freshco).
My sweet tooth is killing me.
——————————————————————————————————–

Yes it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le4Dk9bS680

#132 DON on 08.19.22 at 11:45 am

#124 Is anybody listening? on 08.19.22 at 10:21 am
#112 Shawn

Someones dispute Climate Emergency?

1936 North American heat wave
The 1936 North American heat wave was one of the most severe heat waves in the modern history of North America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_North_American_heat_wave

Where was Greta when we needed her?

************

There is another factor here weather you believe in climate change or not. The size of the population that needed to endure the weather crisis was much much smaller in 1936. We are not seperated from our environment.

#133 Sail Away on 08.19.22 at 12:00 pm

#124 Is anybody listening? on 08.19.22 at 10:21 am
#112 Shawn

Someones dispute Climate Emergency?

1936 North American heat wave
The 1936 North American heat wave was one of the most severe heat waves in the modern history of North America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_North_American_heat_wave

Where was Greta when we needed her?

——–

Shhh! Climate and weather did not exist before the year 2000. These are new phenomena.

Religions are intoxicating, largely because the true believers are always right. Climate emergency religion is just another in a long line.

#134 chalkie on 08.19.22 at 12:24 pm

No, the FHSA that Ottawa so widely talked about, does not represent (Federal Hazardous Substance Act) nor does it represent (Free Home Savings Account) trust me, your new home won’t be free, case in question, the Feds could not come up with a new Akron with the wisemen cabinet in Ottawa. The banks are clapping their hand again on this one, the FHSA will be just Like your TFSA, first it was a free account, and then all banks charged a nice fat fee that keeps going up and up to maintain them, the FHSA is just another sales item on the Bank shelf. If you plan on using the new FHSA ( First Home Savings Account) for a tax shelter for a rainy day ahead, it better be real estate or its going to be wacko on the taxes, when you cash it in. Once we break out of the housing slump in a few years, the 15 years of savings in the FHSA for a home deposit on a new home, won’t even pay for your new drive way. Where would we get the money for a new FHSA, for the record: Canadians have built up a record amount of savings during the pandemic. By some estimates, it totals around $300 billion. This stockpiled spending firepower has fueled concerns that inflation could be higher and more persistent than currently thought, especially at a time of growing supply-side constraints.

#135 Is anybody listening? on 08.19.22 at 12:36 pm

DELETED (Conspiracy nut)

#136 Steven Rowlandson on 08.19.22 at 12:37 pm

Garth how does the total government debt in Canada compare with the total market value of residential real estate in Canada and is a debt for equity swap possible creating a situation where the governments owe nothing, the residential property owners own nothing and the governments creditors are happy landlords?
Would this be the great reset?

#137 IHCTD9 on 08.19.22 at 12:51 pm

#127 IHCTD9 on 08.19.22 at 10:42 am
Looks like Vancouver residents are getting close to engaging in Vigilante Justice:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dtes-threat-letters-1.6552158

Post-Trudeau Canada is taking a dark turn. And I’m not talking about his makeup.

Probably only a matter of time before something terrible takes place out there. That’s what happens when you’ve got a delicate hands-off hard left government at every level. All talk, no action. Utterly powerless in the face of tough decisions.

At least I’m getting paid well by the Libs to watch the scuttling of Her Majesty’s once-good ship “The Canadian”.

Your rants are getting tedious. To what end? Are you supporting violence in the name of political change? If so, you are no longer welcome here. – Garth
——— –

No. I was pointing out that when government sits on its hands, ugly things tend to bubble up to the surface. In this case, that pamphlet.

It should be clear by now that I don’t believe it matters much which party runs the show going forward.

#138 DON on 08.19.22 at 1:09 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-19/top-canadian-union-boss-pushes-for-inflation-beating-pay-hikes

Looks like the private sector companies are included. Maybe they can use the monies allotted to their stock buy backs?

#139 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.19.22 at 1:15 pm

@#129 Ponzies Probate Predicament
“Who uses a Lawyer for a simple Will?”
+++
Between my personal and business financials and assets.
My Will wasn’t “simple”.
Unlike your question.
P.S.
For showing concern about my Will…..
You get TWO used toothbrushes

If you are ever going to use a lawyer for something, make it your will. No time to be cheap. – Garth

#140 Sarah on 08.19.22 at 1:26 pm

So… a very specific question. If I open up a FHSA as a FTHB, currently renting. And, I decide to get married and move in with someone who owns a house, will the $ be transferred to the RRSP? Alternatively, if we get married and we want to buy a different home together, could that money be withdrawn tax-free for the down payment?

I agree this FHSA is ridiculous, but I want to completely use it to my advantage.

Once you marry a homeowner your plan will be kaput. So fall in love with a renter. They’re more romantic, anyway. – Garth

#141 Ronaldo on 08.19.22 at 2:24 pm

If you are ever going to use a lawyer for something, make it your will. No time to be cheap. – Garth
—————————————————————-
Absolutely, especially if a second marriage with children on both sides. It can get quite complicated.

#142 Brian on 08.19.22 at 2:26 pm

Given the continually evolving economic situation, Statistics Canada is providing an advance estimate of retail sales, which suggests that sales decreased 2.0% in July. Owing to its early nature, this figure will be revised. This unofficial estimate was calculated based on responses received from 36.5% of companies surveyed. The average final response rate for the survey over the previous 12 months has been 91.3%.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220819/dq220819a-eng.htm

#143 T2 or Bust on 08.19.22 at 3:21 pm

RE: #133 Sail Away:

“Climate Change” is a myth, however it is currently a myth that is being pushed on Society by some very powerful (read “rich”) people. To speak against this myth, results in the “cancel culture” movement attacking you.

We are supposed to believe that weather is supposed to be predictable and perfect. There has never before been a drought, or a heavy snowfall, or a windy day, or a hurricane.

In 1880, there was a severe blizzard that dumped so much snow on the northeast that it went up to the second floor of people’s houses. In Toronto, they made tunnels through the snow so that people could get around. There are pictures of the snow online (google “blizzard of 1880”).

However, we are supposed to believe that it usually snows in a perfect, acceptable way, and if there is heavy snow, it is because the climate is changing.

The UK has had extreme drought in the past. In 1976, they had such a bad drought that people lined up with buckets for water. However, we are supposed to believe that the weather there is always perfect, drought has never occurred before and if it does occur, it is because of climate change.

The USA has had severe hurricanes for all of its recorded history. We are supposed to believe that, prior to climate change, they never occurred. There is evidence in indigenous oral histories of hurricanes occurring hundreds and even thousands of years’ ago. We are supposed to believe this did not happen.

Our current generation is being brought up on a “science can solve everything” lie which they seem to cling to (maybe because they do not have a religion anymore?). They are told to believe that, if they pay their carbon taxes, drive their electric cars and live in “tiny houses” (cough – trailers) that the weather will improve and there will be no more bad weather.

The science is junk, but supported by very wealthy people who have significant conflicts of interest in that they derive a large portion of their wealth from “green energy” industries (most of which are large scams and not at all green). They react viciously to anyone who challenges their “science”.

Think back in history. When has there ever been a time when a person who challenges the main stream thought, put in place by the wealthy and controlling classes, was not attacked and silenced?

Even in the dark ages, if you said the world was round and not the center of the universe, they would draw and quarter you. You threatened the existence of the religious oligarchs, who derived their wealth off of selling the public lies.

In the next ten years or so, the climate change hoax will be exposed for what it is.

In the interim, you cannot argue against it, however you can protect yourself by electing governments that do not believe in it or support it (like Ford in Ontario, Pollievre in Ottawa), by minimizing your exposure to “carbon taxes” and by actively standing up to and opposing “globalist” organizations like the WEF and the UN.

#144 Faron on 08.19.22 at 10:57 pm

#110 Prince Polo on 08.19.22 at 7:27 am
#153 Faron on 08.18.22 at 2:55 pm
#121 Prince Polo on 08.18.22 at 5:17 am
Plz don’t mix baseball and bowling metaphors. Thx.

Bowling doesn’t have strikes? Only spares and gutterballs for you? Thx!

I’ve bowled a lot. Never in my or anyone else’s rolling any number of strikes has anyone yelled “steeeeeeerike”. I’ve attended and pitched in many baseball games. Hearing “steeeeeeerike” was fairly common. Although I prefer the umpcs simple point to the right with a hearty “hurrrgh”.

Don’t mix your metaphors. It makes you look stupid.

#145 Donna Winstrop on 08.19.22 at 11:03 pm

#143 T2 or Bust

The origin of “climate change” is found in the Bruntland Commission document ( a statement which also defines bureaucratic globalist intent and a framework for the WEF). Bruntland had by her third term become god like in her demands for a legacy. Much like some one else we know.

The ‘ industry tax’ that was envisioned was seen as a tax vehicle to pay for all the grand socialist boondoggles called ‘sustainable development’.

Climate cooling as it was called was actually a clarion for every UN NGO seeking funding. The monster we now call Climate Change was seen as “an opportunity”.

There never has been any climate change. Every sensible person knows that climate always changes over time . It’s never been under our ability to control.

Call out any activist today about funding and they shout back about poverty in Africa and how you’re a racist for even questioning a tax on your existence. Climate Change has been a fraud from the very beginning. But don’t mention the origin documents.

#146 Prince Polo on 08.20.22 at 6:58 am


Once you marry a homeowner your plan will be kaput. So fall in love with a renter. They’re more romantic, anyway. – Garth

Bwahahahahahahaha!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B359hCC3HQU

#147 Prince Polo on 08.20.22 at 7:02 am

#144 Faron on 08.19.22 at 10:57 pm
I’ve bowled a lot. Never in my or anyone else’s rolling any number of strikes has anyone yelled “steeeeeeerike”.

I’m glad I could introduce you to new things.