Gamed

When Trudeau’s health guy, Jean-Yves Duclos mused a couple of days ago about mandatory vaccinations coming, was it medical, or political?

“What we see now is that our health care system in Canada is fragile, our people are tired, and the only way that we know to get through COVID-19, this variant and any future variant, is through vaccination… That’s why I’m signaling this is a conversation which I believe provinces and territories, in support with the federal government, will want to have over the next weeks and months.”

Now, some facts. Then implications. (And, yes, this is a post about finances, markets, asset values and macroeconomics – rather than virology, epidemiology, epidemiology, entomology or other things I have no skill in.)

Duclos pointed out the situation at home. In Quebec, he said, 50% of hospitalizations for Covid are unvaccinated folks. That’s a burden, he added, “which is very difficult for many people to understand.”

In Ontario the vax rate is 82.9% for one-dosers and 77.3% for the doubles. As of this weekend there were 280 people in ICU, 137 jabbed and 143 unjabbed. The anti-vaxers look at that and cry, “Ah-hah, so the stuff doesn’t work.” Of course, the stats mean 49% of ICU admissions came from 82% of the population. More than that (51%) came from just 18%. It‘s overwhelming evidence inoculation may not prevent you from becoming infected (letting your guard down) but it’s  defence against having a vent tube stuck down your throat and clinging to life.

That’s the medicine part.

The social part is our health care system, which has considerably less ICU and general admission capacity than that of the US – where 70,000 people over the weekend whooped it up (without masks) during sporting events. We have socialized medicine designed to give everyone access but which therefore must limit that access. The Yanks have private medicine, allowing those who wish to buy services the ability to do so. American health care comes with a business plan. Ours comes with politicians.

Covid has reduced the ranks of our front-line caregivers. Hospitals are desperate, with some going to code orange, and in places the military has been summoned. People who get sick and would bypass the public system to be treated in a second-tier system are banned from doing so. As a result, the front door of the ER is jammed everywhere and overall care is negatively impacted. One result of this pandemic, hopefully, will be to fully review a system which in January of 2022 is cracking. Thus the federal call for mandatory vaxing of all citizens.

Now the political part.

There is no illusion about the anti-vax crowd. It’s composed of right-leaning, conservative-minded people suspicious of government, political creep and society’s relentless encroachment on civil rights and liberties. All noble stuff. Lots of them are chickens, too. They fear the needle and potential adverse consequences and are happy to let 82% of the population take the risk for them. So, free-riders.

It’s a fair assessment most of the anti-vaxers would not have voted Liberal or NDP before the pandemic, and sure as hell won’t be doing so next time because of measures like vaccine passports, quarantines, lockdowns and restrictions (whether federal or provincial). Already they’re being kicked off airplanes, out of arenas and in Quebec they can’t even buy a beer. More of that is coming. So a mandatory vax is the last straw.

Jason Kenny, struggling with the con cowboys in Alberta, has already said phooey to Duclos. Ditto for Scott Moe in that flat place. Ontario’s Doug Ford, a confused Conservative, has yet to respond. In NS (now Con) the initial response is less than luke. Health care, after all, is a provincial jurisdiction. But the pandemic is national. And T2 knows he would please his political base while further fracturing the rightist opposition base with a vax mandate. Erin O’Toole would be in a vice – squeezed between wanting the damaging viral disaster to be over (know vaccines are the best path to the goal) and trying to prevent the rise of a new Reform Party, putting wind in the sails of that nutbar Max Bernier.

So if you’re a Liberal prime minister needing the support of socialists to prop up a minority government just months after an election that gained zero ground, you ask your health minster to say something outrageous. The Cons flip out and cannibalize each other. Trudeau has no authority to force the mandate. But the political gain is outsized. And that is how the game’s played.

There are seven million among us unvaccinated. Many by choice. Their lives will become more uncomfortable. Justified. We get out of this together, or we live it without end.

May they relent. And may they not be gamed.

About the picture: “This is Bailey,” writes Hans in Vancouver, “on one of our weekend mountain hikes that sometimes includes flushing grouse out of the Vancouver North Shore mountain bushes as we work our way to one of the summits.”

280 comments ↓

#1 Quintilian on 01.09.22 at 3:40 pm

“The Cons flip out and cannibalize each other.”

Thank God, imagine a country ruled by the cousins of the Retrumplicans?

#2 SW on 01.09.22 at 3:40 pm

Cruel, but fair.
I’m not a conservative voter, but I want them to figure out how to be at least electable.
On present form, it’s gonna be a while.

#3 Wrk.dover on 01.09.22 at 3:42 pm

Next time you have the nozzle of the gas pump in your hand, picture that going down your throat for a month.

Triple vaxxed!

#4 TurnerNation on 01.09.22 at 3:44 pm

The Economic Shutdowns. The MSM finally admits what I’ve been saying for months.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/andre-pratte-controlling-covid-and-us-is-mission-impossible
“André Pratte: Controlling COVID (and us) is mission impossible
There is a point where governments’ attempts to control our lives become so arbitrary and rights-infringing that they are counterproductive”

>Toronto Sun columnist:

https://twitter.com/joe_warmington/status/1480163679538663429
“This is how it feels in communist countries. Helpless. Hopeless. This is what some hard core leftist politicians dream about. They didn’t realize how easy it would be to implement. They get provinces to do their dirty work. They are so excited. On March. More restrictions coming”

—-But you knew this back in May.

#80 TurnerNation on 05.04.21 at 11:35 pm
” They do not want us healthy. It all makes sense, they believe WE are the virus to be contained”


— Every system we rely on is being decimated. On purpose.

https://twitter.com/416TPSUnit/status/1479976694496780293 TO Paramedic Union @416TPSUnit #CodeRed No units available in the City at 18:38 hours tonight.


— Comrades. Th 3rd year begins, (Nobody I know ‘follow the rules’, including the many many Un-V people. All those “Get well soon in ICU” Hallmark cards I bought are gathing dust.)

https://brownstone.org/articles/the-compliance-conundrum/
“The pandemic will only end once people comply with the mandated restrictions.”
“The pandemic will only end once people stop complying with the mandated restrictions.””

#5 espressobob on 01.09.22 at 3:49 pm

There is a reason maybe, why some avoid vaccination?

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/terrified-of-needles-that-can-affect-your-health-2021042722470#:~:text=What%20is%20trypanophobia%3F%20Fittingly%2C%20the%20name%20combines%20the,extreme%20fear%20or%20aversion%20to%20blood%20or%20needles.

#6 Prince Polo on 01.09.22 at 3:49 pm

Provincial politicians are about as useless as the federal ones….let’s keep pandering to anti-vaxers. Not!

#7 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.09.22 at 3:50 pm

Make Vaccinations mandatory.
Screw the anti vaxxers.
Time for this to be over.

As for Hans and Bailey on the North Shore Mountains.

That looks like a shot from Unnecessary Mountain on the Howe Sound trail on way to the Lions.

I’ve hiked that trail several times over the past few decades and saw dogs ( 99% off leash) ripping up the hiking path in absolute heaven.
Until the day I saw a guy standing at the edge of a (500ft?) cliff just through the bushes off the main trail overlooking Howe Sound…..yelling for his dog…….

#8 DaveDorf on 01.09.22 at 3:52 pm

Now do hospitalizations – I’ll save you the trouble:

72% of hospital admissions are fully vaxxed.

ICU admissions lag hospital admissions by 1-2 weeks (as per TV doc Michael Warner).

So expect ICU admissions to be 70-75% fully vaxxed soon. Doesn’t seem like the vaccines are all that effective when you compare that to population being 75-80% fully vaxxed.

#9 southseacompany on 01.09.22 at 3:53 pm

Who are the anti-vaxxers?

“If they were voting in a federal election today, 35 per cent would vote Liberal, 25 per cent Conservative, 17 per cent NDP, nine per cent Green — pretty similar to overall voting intentions for the entire population.””

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/corbella-the-vaccine-hesitant-are-typically-40-something-women-in-ontario-who-tend-to-vote-liberal

#10 Habitt on 01.09.22 at 4:00 pm

It’s win win for the libs. If the conservatives split again Trudeau could be around a long time. Sad that.

#11 PhilW on 01.09.22 at 4:03 pm

Require vaccination proof to buy alchol and cannibis, renew a driver’s license and to rent or buy property.

It’s not hard to insert economic hardship for anyone who can’t get vaccinated. Gov’t has lots of levers to pull on when they put their minds to it.

#12 Søren Angst on 01.09.22 at 4:05 pm

THAT was beautifully written Garth.

They say a picture worth a thousand words.

Opposite true today.

No easy task. Keep being you.

#13 Roc on 01.09.22 at 4:10 pm

So the new normal is vaxx passport everywhere for the rest of our lives? Sadly, many people are ok with it. Triple vaxxed here but no thanks to vaxx passport. My life will continue to be uncomfortable ( except can keep my job in the frontlines) by choice, but I dont blame the unvaccinated.

I have no respect for our leader who vilifies and labels unvaccinated as ’often’ rasists and misogynists. Why exactly he needed to say that… to create more hate and division in this country.

#14 dds on 01.09.22 at 4:12 pm

Free-Riders indeed. Complain about handouts to people but then are relying on other people to look out for them. Free-Riders indeed

#15 Peter Courtney on 01.09.22 at 4:15 pm

But…but…..but, we’ve got enviable healthcare. Right?

#16 Hermann Mahler on 01.09.22 at 4:16 pm

The healthcare system in Canada was broken, even before the pandemic started. Being operated and returned to the hospital after 3 days because of a ripped stiches I had to spend 3 days in a hallway before I could get in a room. To compare this system always with the US-system is laughable. How much in taxes per person are we paying for a bloated health care bureaucracy in this country. and then most people think its free healthcare.
We should start looking at European countries and then compare with semi private systems. I’ve had a hospital stay in Berlin and only 2 days to wait, while I had to wait here in Ontario over 6 months after a cancer diagnosis, that made an operation necessary. There is much much work to be done (and money to be spend, but not on bureaucracy). Most political leaders are only interested in re-election and only listen to their old cronies.
This pandemic will pass, and probably most of the electorate will vote for the same useless leaders, because there will be gifts for interest groups to be promised, not “blood and tears”.

#17 Ustabe on 01.09.22 at 4:16 pm

It might be worth pondering the fact that mandates, closures, how health care is delivered and so on, all are Provincially run, not Federally.

While most Provinces are now ruled by various permutations of conservative parties and most commenters on this blog seem to be living in some form of personal hell I’ll point out that in BC I haven’t missed a hair cut, massage or physiotherapy appointment or even been delayed on a dental or medical appointment.

Unless I’m missing a single closure we haven’t had a restaurant or pub or club shut down yet and except for a brief period last year seated dining has been the norm.

Stores are full and busy, auto sales/service is strong. (My one son who was assistant to the GM has recently been promoted to Assistant General Manager so I have inside info on that.)

Construction seems to be fine, lots of activity. My immediate neighbour is lead hand for one of the premier builders in my area and he says they are fully booked out til end of this coming summer.

Surgeries? Well I’m aware of a young lady who has had a reduction surgery, a couple of hip replacement ones and a older lady who is battling a hospital induced infection in a broken arm fix that went bad. All were or are in and out with no delays, no postponements.

But, you all go on living the dream, piled up one on top of another fighting for space on the road, in the elevator, at work.

Meanwhile Dr. Henry is following the CDC playbook (the one the previous US administration threw out) to the letter and we are all the better for that, regardless of politics.

Locally, it is highly unlikely to see someone without a mask, even the crusty old retired loggers and fishermen, and the anti folks seem to be able to gather around 12 people to each of their demonstrations. They are so inconsequential even the local newspaper doesn’t bother to cover them any longer.

#18 mark on 01.09.22 at 4:18 pm

well done.

#19 Sam on 01.09.22 at 4:19 pm

Folks need to stop labelling the unvaccinated “antivax”. Many of them have valid reason to choose what to put in their bodies. As for hospitals buckling why are we not focusing on decades of treating those with other preventable diseases and banning the root causes such as sugar, fast food, alcohol, smokes? Why do we let dangerous drivers back on the road? Why do we sell products with cancer causing ingredients? Why are we putting 5G towers everywhere? Let’s fix the root of our healthcare capacity problems not label people something they may not be. And even those who are vaxxed are dying too as many have high blood pressure and diabetes so should we call them out for not leading a healthy lifestyle and filling or hospitals? Besides now they’re talking about booster 5 – sure keep boosting us until our cells are damaged and can’t fight other diseases like cancer.

#20 the Jaguar on 01.09.22 at 4:21 pm

‘There is no illusion about the anti-vax crowd. It’s composed of right-leaning, conservative-minded people suspicious of government, political creep and society’s relentless encroachment on civil rights and liberties.’ – GT +++

While there are some kernels of truth in that description, it doesn’t completely peel back the onion. It also chums the water for the sharks out there who love to seize every opportunity to sort out and divide people based on party affiliation or political views.

There are many ‘Conservatives’ who are fierce on fiscal responsibility and ideology, but socially very liberal. Unfortunately we don’t have a political entity in this country that has delivered a clear manifesto in this regard. Those in the first category have aligned themselves with the ones you describe in order to consolidate votes to gain power. Appears that dog doesn’t run.

Jason Kenney ( with an ‘e’ ) knows this only too well by now. He works hard for the province of Alberta, but time will tell whether his sizeable political wiliness with outrun the Reformers.

My observation is that a great many of the anti-vax types fall into an entirely different category. An unflattering one. Their intellectual level and ability to think critically can be measured with a drive-by. No full appraisal required.

They are followers of any snake oil salesperson who blows into their stratosphere. A mob mentality, except in this instance they may likely find themselves the victim of that mob. The distrust they express so fervently is going to fall into that old chestnut of ‘give them enough rope and they will hang themselves’. The absence of an outpouring of sympathy will be deafening.

I like this black dog Bailey. He/she looks very ‘sturdy’.

#21 Søren Angst on 01.09.22 at 4:21 pm

Today in my get vaxd cohort of 8 at the appointed time here in Italia (me for the booster) *:

4 being vaxd for the first time.

1 of 4 was over 50 (mandatory vax coming for that age group, no vax, no work)

Vax mandates seem to be working here.

* As Doc Lela Absadi from AB observed 2 days ago on Twitter:

This really feels like the DIY wave:
-find your own booster
-find your own rapid tests & PCR
-do your own contact tracing
-determine optimal isolation length
-figure out which masks to buy & where
-figure out whether child’s school or daycare has any mitigations, etc.

Gov Italia does all that for you including ensuring masks are cheap, no price gouging. PCR tests free, few if any line-ups, etc.

For example, since the crushing early 2020 Covid-19 infections, deaths Gov Italia has increased Covid ICU beds from 5500 –> 7500 –> todays about 9400 last I checked.

Vax passport updated automatically as to status and enforced, compliance in Italia is 99.99% with Gov Covid decrees.

——————-

Canada healthcare in a Pandemic needs rethinking. You cannot have 13 cats to herd each with their own brand of meow.

A SINGULAR national strategy is needed where people understand that Mother Nature and Natural Selection do NOT give a damn about personal rights and freedoms.

———–

All humanity is to Mother Nature is a potential host for her latest viral creation and a test as to whether our species is worthy to continue walking on the face of the planet.

#22 pk on 01.09.22 at 4:22 pm

82% jabbed, 137 in ICU
18% un-jabbed, 143 in ICU
If 100% jabbed then total of 167 in ICU, a reduction of 113 from the total
So the Ontario health care system would be saved if we could jab everyone (jab an extra 2.5 million people out of 14 million) and subsequently reduce hospital admissions by 113.
Sounds like the Ontario Health Care System is broken. The un-jabbed are contributing to the mess but perhaps we should also lay some blame at the feet of the people calling for all these mandates, the same people who have let the health care system get to such state and who are clearly looking to cover their ass. Maybe the powers that be are the ones that are selfish and cowardly by avoiding responsibility and shifting blame.
Very disappointed in you Garth.

#23 truefacts on 01.09.22 at 4:23 pm

“Ontario’s Doug Ford, a confused Conservative, has yet to respond.” – Garth

“Lockdown Doug” has miscalculated with vax passports/lockdowns. Many Conservatives who voted Ford will not again…the Ontario Party might surprise people just like the Reform Party did in 1993.

They will NOT win, but could get some seats and a decent share of the popular vote…perhaps balance of power in minority gov’t???

#24 Dogman01 on 01.09.22 at 4:24 pm

Fomenting a divide in the population that is so wide as to irreconcilable is a dangerous “game”.

My learning’s from this pandemic:

– Everyone in Canada knew that care for the elderly was sub par but were quite comfortable letting unpaid women of color work part time shift work to warehouse granny.
– I used to support socialized medicine I now realize a good portion of our population does not share my values (not even close) and I realize that socialized medicine can be used as a club to implement any progressive agenda (as will Climate Change)
– From this Blog, that as our population has been growing with a strategy of mass Immigration our Hospital Capacity has not kept up, nor has our Housing Stock. Someone want to profit from mass immigration but they are unwilling to realize many of the costs.
– Issues such as Drug overdose deaths, homelessness, elder care, hospital capacity, general personal fitness of the population are important but as they are not fashionable and our Leaders ignore it until it becomes a fad they can hop on.
– There is increasing small portion of the Canadian population whom take personal responsibility for their lives (their Health & Fitness, their Financial situation, their retirement, etc) That small portion has a set of values that the rest of the population do not comprehend.
– Our Governments with now 3 years and billion upon billions of dollars spent have not yet invested in a vastly improved ICU\Hospital Capacity or Elder Care safety. I can only imagine the shit-creek we will be up should we encounter a true crises like a war with China\Russia or being up against Spanish Flu level virus. If this leadership culture ran us in the 1940’s we would all be goose stepping and speaking German.

Rant Over

#25 Linda on 01.09.22 at 4:29 pm

It is all very well to impose a vaccine mandate, but unless that mandate is enforced it means squat. Meanwhile our overwhelmed medical system continues to struggle. I’d add that while I’m willing to aid my fellow citizens I am less than impressed with the expectation that we collectively foot the bill for the ICU care of the unvaccinated – all while losing access for said care for any other ailments. At an estimated $50K per bed that is one big ask. I’m talking those who have ‘the right to choose’ here – not the children, who until recently had no access to a vaccine.

Bottom line is we can’t afford to tie up our limited medical resources in such a way, especially not when a relatively inexpensive preventative solution is readily available. Because if this virus mutates into a version that combines super infectious power with high mortality, we all lose.

#26 HUNGRY BEAR on 01.09.22 at 4:29 pm

Those who choose to be UN-VAXED have the blood on their hands of the sick and weak who have died since the Vax was available to them.

The UN-VAXED should be publicly shamed, denied the same healthcare of the VAXED who decided to fight this monster, and billed for every penny of treatment they recieve when they end up in our healthcare system due to covid.

SHAME ON THE UN-VAXED!
OTHERS ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF YOU.

#27 Søren Angst on 01.09.22 at 4:34 pm

To those here ranting, citing goose-stepping, disappointment in Garth, minutiae human facts and figures I say this to you:

Mother Nature does not give a damn about your prognostications.

To her you are nothing more than a host to promulgate her latest viral creation.

Fail the test and Natural Selection will take its course.

#28 Neo on 01.09.22 at 4:36 pm

Garth,

The real issue here is after two years there is still no clear definition of what “fully vaccinated” is so what that means when you make it mandatory is you leave that to the discretion of politicians who have been incompetent to put it mildly and Pharma who have obvious conflict of interest. It’s easy to try to ram this through to try to squeeze the last of the unvaxxed. The problem is people fully vaccination with two shots will no longer be considered fully vaxxed once 3 doses are required and so on and everyone has lost their choice about what they can decide what goes into their bodies going forward. Many fully vaccinated have no interest in the 3rd shot but will be in the same boat but don’t realize it.

Viruses are unpredictable. Who knew? – Garth

#29 saskatoon on 01.09.22 at 4:38 pm

garth,

you really gotta stop with the disinformation, and check yourself before spouting off:

https://www.macleans.ca/society/typical-vaccine-hesitant-person-is-a-42-year-old-ontario-woman-who-votes-liberal-abacus-polling/

This article is from last year, but most anti-vaxxers actually seem to be liberal moms.

#30 Diamond Dog on 01.09.22 at 4:38 pm

“rather than virology, epidemiology, epidemiology, entomology or other things I have no skill in” – Garth

It’s ok, I got this, self professed auto didact that I am:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism

Let’s first look at some CDC Covid19 estimates:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html#est-infections

From Feb 2020 to Sept 2021, the CDC estimates (I will remind, they are estimates) that there were 124 million symptomatic cases with 7.5 million hospitalizations out of a population of 330 million with 921,000 dead.

I would question 124 million symptomatic cases as in the ball park based on data from the Red cross broadly testing for antibodies back in March. The Red cross found antibodies found in 20.3% of the blood they tested (also in March, 33 million were confirmed cases or 10% of U.S. population. Add another 10.3% for asymptomatic or unreported and you have your 20.3%). Considering flu season ending in April, a more realistic symptomatic number would have been 50 million by Sept 21′. Otherwise, the rest of CDC’s estimates make sense.

The main difference between Delta and Omicron is Omicron’s much faster replication rate, something to the tune of a 750x higher virus count over 24 hrs. This would not only shorten the incubation time, (which it has from a 5.5 day Delta incubation to a 3 day Omicron average) but speed up antigenic drift:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigenic_drift

In lamen terms, faster replication speeds up mutations in genes that code surface proteins of the virus allowing the virus to avoid immune system detection even when the immune system has prior antibodies of the same strain. (vaccines, past infection)

The flu virus does this which is why flu shots only last 6 months or so forcing the elderly at the very least, to go for them annually. Shortly before flu season, vaccine manufacturers make updated batches of vaccines from the most recent virus mutations circulating. Vaccine manufacturers will now have to do the same for Omicron.

Omicron has accelerated antigenic drift leading to a much more rapid vaccine efficacy fade (4x to 5x faster). We are seeing this play out now as Omicron contagion is comparable to the measles of all viruses and vaccines are fast becoming ineffectual in preventing infection over just a few short months (but note, keeping vaccinated from ICU’s).

To summarize, what we are seeing is a compression of days of incubation (5.5 days down to 3 days), antigenic drift (shortening efficacy timeline of vaccines, with Delta from 2 years down to 5 months or so) and a virus that is 4 to 5x more contagious due to sped up replication.

I’ve yet to see conclusive data on Delta vs Omicron with the unvaccinated, hoping there will be conclusive studies out by mid month. Omicron could be measurably less severe or minimally unchanged. I cannot understate the importance of this data, as our vaccines and immunity from past infections will basically be entirely useless to us at the most a year from the date we get our shots. Govy’s are pushing boosters, this is why and just to conclude, there is no chance at herd immunity now, it’s an entirely dead concept at this point.

If Delta/Omicron comparisons offer little to no difference in severity with the unvaccinated, then what we have with Omicron is a hands down worse variant than Delta. We just don’t know it due to a current high vaccination rate among adults in North America, better treatment at hospitals, improved education and some new drugs that can make a big difference but it remains to be seen.

But I should caution, if we get complacent with vaccine rates dropping significantly in future years (not terribly difficult to imagine a politicized environment leading to it) and Omicron remains fundamentally unchanged, predictably, hospitals will be more over run than we are seeing right now.

#31 yvr_lurker on 01.09.22 at 4:47 pm

There is no illusion about the anti-vax crowd. It’s composed of right-leaning, conservative-minded people suspicious of government, political creep and society’s relentless encroachment on civil rights and liberties. All noble stuff. Lots of them are chickens, too.
——-

There is another large group of anti-vaxers: you have forgotten the large homeopathy, spiritual, vegan, weekly cleanse, extreme yoga cohort who would not let alcohol cross their lips, let alone a vaccine in their arms. We have two of these in our extended family and these people have a large group of friends with a similar mindset. They vote NDP or Green, and certainly not Conservative.

That being said, I don’t see anyone in this country mandating a vaccine for everyone. How would they enforce it? Going from home to home dragging out citizens as they do in China? Nope. Just slowly turn the screws on a little tighter; no liquor store is a good start (but won’t impact the group I described above).

#32 Neo on 01.09.22 at 4:49 pm

What we need at this point is to pivot to effective early treatments that prevent vaxxed and unvaxxed people over 60 that dominant the ICU…currently 137 fully vaxxed vs 123 unvaxxed..Out of the ICU and make this disease more manageable. Monoclonal Antibiotics that finally got approved by Health Canada after being approved for a year in the US has shown to reduce severe illness in high risk groups by up to 70%. Why isn’t Ford and Trudeau ever bringing treatments up? It’s just lock downs and vaccines which to this point haven’t gotten us out of it even though that is what was promised. Moore and Bogoch never bring up treatments either. Just jabs. That has to change. More things need to be added to the toolkit here.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/monoclonal-antibody-clinic-chagla-results-1.6303467

#33 jimmy zhao on 01.09.22 at 4:50 pm

Duclos pointed out the situation at home. In Quebec, he said, 50% of hospitalizations for Covid are unvaccinated folks. That’s a burden, he added, “which is very difficult for many people to understand.”

So then that means the other 50% of hospitalizations for Covid are Vaccinated folks. What’s so hard to understand ?

Math is hard, eh Jimmy? – Garth

#34 TurnerNation on 01.09.22 at 4:56 pm

This is the final shutdown, the one which will usher in the UBI and permanent digital ID/QR code.
Photos of the dozens of small business closures in the Little Italy prefecture in Toronto.
This is what the Great Reset looks like:

https://twitter.com/FrankGrimes_Jr/status/1479662327653974016


— Nothing like a good bit of ‘predictive programming’ eh? Standby for that E-Currency, Digital ID, Social Credit Score.

“Opinion: How Canada can improve security if American democracy collapses”
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-how-canada-can-improve-security-if-american-democracy-collapses


— Some #s via a financial guy.

https://twitter.com/rubiconcapital_/status/1480014884708528130
“In Ontario, in a typical MONTH, we:
-Admit ~93,000 patients to hospital
-Perform ~89,000 surgeries/procedures
-Admit ~9,000 patients to ICU
-Ventilate ~4,500 patients
And we are to believe the 123 unvaccinated currently in ICU w/Covid-19 are a threat to the hospital system?”

#35 Adam on 01.09.22 at 5:06 pm

Most of the un-vaxxed that I know are women of child bearing age. They are concerned how their fetus or baby would be affected by this new vaccine technology. They might be right or wrong on their decisions but they are all highly educated and good critical thinkers.

This is a far cry from the cowardly ignorant rednecks that the media describes the typical antivaxxer as.

#36 Big Bucks on 01.09.22 at 5:09 pm

Restaurants require full vaccination to enter so why are they closed?They tell us vaccination is the way out but apparently that is just not true as 100% of patrons got the jab and you can’t eat out?That make absolutely no sense.What the hell is going on?Telling people to get 2-3 shots soon to be 4 and still putting them under restrictions sends out a rather bizarre message.

#37 Sheesh on 01.09.22 at 5:09 pm

Well, that’s fine and dandy and all. But why ignore the transmission part of the equation? N95s for everyone, not to be worn as a chin diaper. For all the money being spent on this pandemic, the government could at least supply masks for the population. And better ventilation/filtration in buildings. This virus isn’t going anywhere, and clearly isn’t mild for a lot of people.

Other that that, rather than a mandate, just make vaccination a requirement to receive govy benefits like ei, ccb, etc.

#38 Father's Daughter on 01.09.22 at 5:09 pm

We have had a health care problem far beyond this pandemic began. At some point we’re going to have to have a serious conversation about priorities in our health care system. There is far too much very expensive, futile care at the expense of other things such as preventative care (everyone having a good family doctor), pharmacare etc. We need to figure out what exactly should and should not be insurable, because we can’t afford it all. In the current state of emergency, I agree with Linda that the expectation that after two years of this shit that we continue to fund the health care bills of the completely unvaccinated is a hard pill to swallow. At the very least, consider that they should not be triaged ahead of everyone else who needs treatment for their various ailments.

#39 millmech on 01.09.22 at 5:12 pm

I do not understand the need to keep pushing this 100% vaccination rate because
1) masks stop the virus from being transmitted
2) stay six feet apart to stop the spread
3)wash your hands
4)lockdowns for two weeks to stop the spread
5)one dose for 65% of the population for herd immunity
6)two doses for 80% for herd immunity
7)three doses for 100% for herd immunity
8)talk of four doses now for herd immunity
9) in Quebec COVID so much more virulent after dark, need curfews to stop it
$400 billion spent and not one new hospital, no new nurses, no doctors, if the Government was so worried about this Virus they would spend more to combat it.
Always watch what they do, not what they say.
I am triple vaxxed but support the right to choose whether to be vaxxed or not.
This blog is pro life obviously, I myself am pro choice, I would like to know the blog dogs stance on these matters and not just to the vaccine, as it seems hypocritical to take away the right to choose for some procedures and not others.
30,000 Covid deaths vs 160,000 deaths from other procedures in the last two years alone.

#40 Quebecer Here on 01.09.22 at 5:16 pm

Hi,

Quebecer here.
As of today’s new hospitalisations in Montréal:
“Of the new patients, 223 were double-vaccinated more than a week prior to checking in, 128 were unvaccinated or received one dose less than two weeks prior, and 10 received one dose more than two weeks prior. “
Source:
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/covid-19-hospitalizations-in-quebec-rise-by-140-with-23-new-deaths-1.5733261

The data keeps trending towards the vaccine rate for hospitalisation: 20% unvaccinated vs 80% vaccinated.

You’re assuming the unvaccinated would not be hospitalised if they received the vaccine- that is not true.
You’re doing a univariate analysis- you need a multivariate analysis.
The number one factor for hospitalisation is COMORBIDITY (fighting off another life threatening illness) thus the non-vaccinated who are hospitalised would still be hospitalised even if they received the vaccine.

Your vaccine vs unvaccinated comparison is the equivalent of: “do you know people with bigger feet are smarter than people with smaller feet?” (Univariate analysis here- why not do a multivariate analysis and see if age is a factor…

FYI new infections in QC is 80% amongst the vaccinated and 20% amongst the unvaccinated- exactly like the vaccine status…

#41 Stone on 01.09.22 at 5:19 pm

The anti-vaxers are a scourge on society. Ban them from everything. That includes the grocery story and pharmacy. And health care. They are selfish POS.

The alternative to the grocery store/pharmacy is Instacart. Start paying the premium, you selfish POS. Lets see how long you last.

As for health care, the health care system is there for those who are fully participating members of society. Not selfish POS anti-vaxers that are dragging out this pandemic unnecessarily. For the anti-vaxers, you believe in Darwinism, do you? Then let Darwinism deal with you.

#42 Barb on 01.09.22 at 5:19 pm

Bailey looks to be a great companion on those hikes, Hans.

“There is no illusion about the anti-vax crowd. It’s composed of right-leaning, conservative-minded people suspicious of government, political creep and society’s relentless encroachment on civil rights and liberties.”

The few anti-vaxers that we personally know appear to be evenly split — righties and lefties.

Has T2 FINALLY gained a modicum of common sense? There should’ve been a federal vaccination mandate two years ago.

B.C. schools return tomorrow.
Wonder how many teachers remain unvaccinated.

#43 Eco Capitalist on 01.09.22 at 5:21 pm

Politicizing the virus did wonders for democracy in the US. Apparently Mr. Trudeau’s advisors haven’t been paying attention. Or perhaps they’d also like to see our democracy on the ropes?

#44 C on 01.09.22 at 5:24 pm

Garth, please explain how vaccines get us out of this. Even if 100% of population was vacinnated tomorrow covid would still be circulating.

Vaccines are intended to prevent serious sickness and death and, therefore, save the health care system resources for things like, oh, cancer and heart disease. Sounds like progress to me.- Garth

#45 Nonplused on 01.09.22 at 5:24 pm

On the other hand, what if Omnicron or Obiwan or whatever it is does turn out to be the end of the pandemic and start of the endemic? Then doesn’t this all turn out to be one last attempt at overt political posturing of the most disingenuous kind? Oh well they would have been disingenuous either way.

Somehow I think Trudeau will not be able to let Obiwanocron go. He’s made himself a one issue politician. That issue will, perhaps shortly, go away. Hopefully so will he. Nations survive pandemics but they don’t survive inflation and reckless borrowing. They don’t really survive socialism either, transforming into open air concentration camps rather than nations.

Which leads me to my controversial statement of the day: I’d rather have the unvaccinated among us than the socialists. No pandemic ever killed as many of a nation’s own people as socialists like Stalin, Hitler, Kim, or Mao.

#46 Minuscule stone brain on 01.09.22 at 5:29 pm

#41 Stone on 01.09.22 at 5:19 pm
The anti-vaxers are a scourge on society. Ban them from everything. That includes the grocery story and pharmacy. And health care. They are selfish POS.

The alternative to the grocery store/pharmacy is Instacart. Start paying the premium, you selfish POS. Lets see how long you last.

Another retar.ded mor.on on your blog, it doesn’t surprise me. Could this be Trudeau secretly posting??

This is the level of your audience and fan base

A bunch of CRE TINS

#47 Another Skeptic on 01.09.22 at 5:31 pm

#26 HUNGRY BEAR,

Omicron is everywhere. We are ALL going to be exposed to it, and the vaccinated can become infected and pass it on to others. Therefore, the only anger shown towards those not vaccinated should be related to utilization of medical resources. In that spirit, I modified your post slightly, but allowed your fury to shine through:

“Those who choose to be OBESE have the blood on their hands of the sick and weak who have died since HEALTHY FOOD was available to them.

The OBESE should be publicly shamed, denied the same healthcare of the HEALTHY BMI FOLKS who decided to fight this monster, and billed for every penny of treatment they receive when they end up in our healthcare system due to HEART DISEASE, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, DIABETES, STROKE…
SHAME ON THE OBESE!
OTHERS ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF YOU.”

There are many substitutions you can make here aside from obesity. Smokers, Boozers, Skydivers, Motorcycle racers, etc. Many choices in a free society might result in you taking up a space in a local hospital on occasion. Should all but the most risk-free acts be banned? Is that the society you wish Canada to become?

Let’s focus on the fundamental question of why our medical system capacity hasn’t been significantly increased since this pandemic began. It was stretched to the limits prior to that unfortunate event, and these last two years should have been spent fast-tracking training of future staff members, and expanding hospital structural capacity.

Instead, politicians drive a wedge into society, using the ‘anti-vaxxers’ as a distraction from their own ineptitude and incompetence. It is sad to see so many fall prey…

And yes, I am fully vaccinated, but hold no grudge against those who make other choices in a free country.

#48 uncle dave on 01.09.22 at 5:36 pm

#39 millmech
I agree with you for what it’s worth and I’m double jabbed.

#49 Editrix on 01.09.22 at 5:36 pm

I wish we could just make the unvaxxed pay out of pocket for their COVID hospital stay.

#50 Jim on 01.09.22 at 5:48 pm

Why is the government and medical community ignoring natural immunity by infection/recovery? There’s suspicion that something else is in play when they are coercing, bullying, and shaming even those with natural immunity (which some studies show is better than being vaxxed) to get vaccinated, completely ignoring the fact they have developed natural immunity. If they took this one simple step in recognizing natural immunity, I think it would restore some faith in the medical community and government that they are not just charging forward blindly with a narrow minded policy which may harm some, but are considering every factor when it comes to mitigating this virus.

#51 steve on 01.09.22 at 5:50 pm

the day they make it mandatory what will hit the fan. government cant order a pizza without screwing up.
I dont know why but its sadly true and they dont deserve the respect that they would need from me to comply to a mandatory vaccine order.so that will be a big day.

#52 NoVax Joke-O-Vic on 01.09.22 at 5:53 pm

You would be hard pressed to find someone more fearful of needles than me but I’ve been vaccinated three times. It isn’t just to protect me, it’s also to protect the little kids that no vaccine is available for yet, the people who have some pre-existing condition that renders that vaccine less effective for and other at risk people. The needle they use is a very small diameter, it’s over before you know it and not painful. Also when the hospitals are full of you unvaccinated people there is no room or staff for heart attacks, strokes and other emergencies. Cancer patients are not being treated or screened because of you people. Surgeries that already took forever to get are further delayed including for little kids with brain tumors and cancers and much more. But you folks would rather let them die than get a little prick.

The political part; seems to me boils down to exactly what you are saying they are there for their own gain not the good of the population.

#53 Stone on 01.09.22 at 5:58 pm

#46 Minuscule stone brain on 01.09.22 at 5:29 pm
#41 Stone on 01.09.22 at 5:19 pm
The anti-vaxers are a scourge on society. Ban them from everything. That includes the grocery story and pharmacy. And health care. They are selfish POS.

The alternative to the grocery store/pharmacy is Instacart. Start paying the premium, you selfish POS. Lets see how long you last.

Another retar.ded mor.on on your blog, it doesn’t surprise me. Could this be Trudeau secretly posting??

This is the level of your audience and fan base

A bunch of CRE TINS

———

You are part of this audience and fan base, yes?

Not very bright, are you?

#54 HH on 01.09.22 at 6:02 pm

I didn’t vote Liberal or NDP and I don’t plan to vote for either in the future. The country should be run as a business with qualified people at the helm. We don’t have either. I have been vaccinated three times in the last six months hoping that will get me through this sickness. All of my immediate family have been vaccinated, also. Personally, I would be ok with a private system working alongside the public one. In fact, I would vote for it. The dental industry is private. The optometrist industry is private. So, why not the rest of our health care? We should, at least, give it a shot. (Pardon the pun)

#55 Tbone on 01.09.22 at 6:04 pm

This crap will be over when the covid pill is approved.
Get covid … pop a pill … carry on .

#56 S.O on 01.09.22 at 6:05 pm

Allot of anti vax hate here. Here in BC, the places that required you to be double vaxed with passports like gyms are fully closed, but places where you don’t need the vax are fully open like crowded malls and shopping centres. What does that tell you about the government and they’re fear porn.

#57 Father's Daughter on 01.09.22 at 6:06 pm

#47 Another Skeptic on 01.09.22 at 5:31 pm

Let’s focus on the fundamental question of why our medical system capacity hasn’t been significantly increased since this pandemic began. It was stretched to the limits prior to that unfortunate event, and these last two years should have been spent fast-tracking training of future staff members, and expanding hospital structural capacity.

——————————————

Well this is a very good question. There are tons of Internationally Educated Nurses who have been waiting insane lengths of time to go through the registration process. The College of Nurses of Ontario is completely incompetent in improving licensing barriers/training and this should have been urgently addressed by our leaders. There is a major nursing exodus (don’t blame them) including to agencies (terrible) where the pay is more lucrative. In what other profession can you mandate workers to literally at least double their workload, especially when human lives are on the line, with no additional compensation? At least doctors on the front lines have been paid for their additional patients/COVID responsibilities. Nursing is an absolute shitshow right now and it’s only going to get worse. What’s the plan?

#58 kc on 01.09.22 at 6:07 pm

39 millmech on 01.09.22 at 5:12 pm

I do not understand the need to keep pushing this 100% vaccination rate because
1) masks stop the virus from being transmitted
2) stay six feet apart to stop the spread
3)wash your hands
4)lockdowns for two weeks to stop the spread
5)one dose for 65% of the population for herd immunity
6)two doses for 80% for herd immunity
7)three doses for 100% for herd immunity
8)talk of four doses now for herd immunity
9) in Quebec COVID so much more virulent after dark, need curfews to stop it
$400 billion spent and not one new hospital, no new nurses, no doctors, if the Government was so worried about this Virus they would spend more to combat it.
Always watch what they do, not what they say.
I am triple vaxxed but support the right to choose whether to be vaxxed or not.
This blog is pro life obviously, I myself am pro choice, I would like to know the blog dogs stance on these matters and not just to the vaccine, as it seems hypocritical to take away the right to choose for some procedures and not others.
30,000 Covid deaths vs 160,000 deaths from other procedures in the last two years alone.

******************

It has nothing to do with a Vaccine. it is give up your rights, and be controlled.

The QR code will rule your life. If the government cared about the people in this country they would do something about all the other ways people are dieing in the country. Covid has nothing to do with the death rates. It is how they want you to believe and pass your control to them in fear.

Now they are calling people in this country criminals and terrorists for not getting a dose of what ever they put in those needles…

Can you not see the divide game that is being played?

I am not vaxxed nor will ever be. I will place a bullet in my head before I fall to their rules. And you are correct, it is my choice.

And I hope you choose to get some help. – Garth

#59 Freedom First on 01.09.22 at 6:08 pm

Can’t fix stupid, but ignorance is a choice.

Enjoy your Blog Garth, and all of the comments!

#60 IHCTD9 on 01.09.22 at 6:09 pm

Billions upon Billions vanquished by Trudeau.

Zero results.

#61 Habitt on 01.09.22 at 6:10 pm

#31You provide your health card # when you get the vaccine et voila

#62 Moonshine on 01.09.22 at 6:12 pm

#13 Roc

You are absolutely right , here T2 in action in Quebec

https://t.me/momotchi_groupe/156418

#63 HUNGRY BEAR on 01.09.22 at 6:15 pm

TO: #47 Another Skeptic on 01.09.22 at 5:31 pm
———————–

Our current healthcare system is designed to cope with the effects of obesity and the self-inflicted blood-shed of all the Evil Knievels out there.

Our current healthcare system is not designed to accommodate the numerous patients brought upon it by the current pandemic.

You can’t “fast track” hands-on training and education during a pandemic especially when the trainees (existing healthcare workers and students themselves aren’t showing up or willing to train or be trained).

And this is NOT a FREE country.
Don’t pay your taxes and see what kind of FREE lifestyle you get to live.

NOTHING is FREE.

#64 millmech on 01.09.22 at 6:17 pm

#41 Stone
I bet your hoping that they will force the unvaxxed to wear arm bands when outside with the biological hazard symbol on it so they are easily avoidable. The best part is you can go down memory lane as that symbol is usually on a yellow background, not a star this time but the symbolism is the same.
That way there when you want to denigrate another human being you can look back in history for the proper way to do it so there is no guilt.
Many relatives of mine never made it out of Europe and when I see people dehumanizing others I can feel that we have learned absolutely nothing from the past.

#65 Some Democracy on 01.09.22 at 6:21 pm

#43 Eco Capitalist on 01.09.22 at 5:21 pm
Politicizing the virus did wonders for democracy in the US. Apparently Mr. Trudeau’s advisors haven’t been paying attention. Or perhaps they’d also like to see our democracy on the ropes?

=========================================

That ship sailed long ago.”Democracy” is every bit as much a farce in Canada as south of the border. Trudeau claiming a strong mandate with 32% of the popular vote, less than the Conservatives, makes a mockery of any semblance of it being democratic.

There’s no relationship to democratic principles, only who can game the system the best.

#66 Reality Check on 01.09.22 at 6:22 pm

Sam on 01.09.22 at 4:19 pm
As for hospitals buckling why are we not focusing on decades of treating those with other preventable diseases and banning the root causes such as sugar, fast food, alcohol, smokes?
—————-
The difference is that those people are not clogging up the health care system YET AGAIN with a disease that is preventable with a $3, 3 minute vaccine. There is no kind way to put it – the unvaxxed are killing people.

#67 What about this on 01.09.22 at 6:23 pm

I saw a video of pierre poilievre announcing Canada’s debt is now 9 trillion dollars or 371 percent of GDP. This is much bigger problem than vaccine holdouts I think anyway but maybe that number isn’t accurate IDK

#68 Brian on 01.09.22 at 6:29 pm

OMG, we’ll have to vaccinate the mice too!

Evidence for a mouse origin of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.472632v1

#69 Father's Daughter on 01.09.22 at 6:33 pm

#58 Reality Check on 01.09.22 at 6:22 pm
Sam on 01.09.22 at 4:19 pm
As for hospitals buckling why are we not focusing on decades of treating those with other preventable diseases and banning the root causes such as sugar, fast food, alcohol, smokes?
—————-
The difference is that those people are not clogging up the health care system YET AGAIN with a disease that is preventable with a $3, 3 minute vaccine. There is no kind way to put it – the unvaxxed are killing people.
—————————————-
Exactly. When is the last time these chronic health conditions led to repeated mass societal closures? Kids out of school? Sure we need to deal with this but it’s not exactly the same level of urgency.

#70 CanadianOne on 01.09.22 at 6:36 pm

Hi Garth,

Love your posts. Not always :) but still at a gain.

Thank you.

#71 Toronto 6ix on 01.09.22 at 6:37 pm

Should anti-vaxxers adopt a puppy in a high-risk Rabies zone, and refuse to vaccinate it?
Lots of frothing puppies is the result.

#72 Millennial 1%er on 01.09.22 at 6:40 pm

Once our healthcare collapses, maybe I won’t have to worry about flying to panama to actually get surgeries I may need as I become older

joke of a country

#73 Vaxxed and Dubious on 01.09.22 at 6:41 pm

I would like to know, in the ICU stats that you cited above, a breakdown by age groups and existing co-morbidities. While relevant to consider, I don’t think the data point of ICU stays per capita of vaxxed and unvaxxed tells the entire story.

#49 Editrix on 01.09.22 at 5:36 pm
I wish we could just make the unvaxxed pay out of pocket for their COVID hospital stay.

That is a slippery slope and is an angry response to the situation. We have a health care system that covers your costs even when it is your fault that your health is degraded. We don’t charge lifelong smokers the costs of lung cancer treatment in hospital. We don’t charge people with high fat high salt diets the costS of heart surgery. So why does the bar change for those who choose to not be vaccinated? Because you’re tired of the pandemic? Not enough of a reason to change the bar, sorry.

I am 2x vaccinated but believe forced vaccinations and denial of access to jobs, services, travel, etc. for the unvaccinated is unconscionable. Justin Trudeau lies regularly, and when he says this is a ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’, it is just another lie that is divisive. This Lancet author would agree:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

#74 Cheese on 01.09.22 at 6:45 pm

I spend an frustrating amount of time arguing with anti-vaxxers on a regular basis, no logic will ever effect them, only forced compliance.

In regards to Omicron, given its insane transmissivity and vaccine evasion (neg on antibody, but you still get T-cell response from the vaccine, so for the love of dog go get your boosters). It is likely that everyone will get it, Dr,Campbell has some excellent info that I think everyone should see on the treatment for viral infection, so I want to share with everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP65st24crc

stay safe and be well

<3

I'm going to go bemoan my financial woes another day.

#75 I'mshort_corpdebt on 01.09.22 at 6:45 pm

The fact remains that many people vaxxed or not are becoming more and more suspicious of the way this who pan/plandemic is being handled.

For one, moist people I speak with (yes they have ghad their shots) realize that our government is clueless on how to handle the issue altogether. They are winging it!
So now that millions of people have gotten their 2 vaxx shots, they are now bracing for possible multitudes of booster shots that will mean nothing if you DO have natural immunity. And the fact that there have been so many instances of the agencies that are supposed to make sure certain drugs have more testing done before bringing to market, chose to ignore drug safety research and longer clinical trials. Here’s a good one…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmaris/2012/10/10/fda-recall-points-to-serious-problems-at-the-fda/?sh=63262d6367cb

Here’s another story about a Pfizer drug after 10 years of being on the market.

Smoking cessation drug Chantix was recalled for higher than acceptable levels of a potential carcinogen called nitrosamine

https://www.everydayhealth.com/stop-smoking/pfizer-recalls-all-lots-of-chantix-due-to-potential-cancer-causing-impurity/

ow we are to expect that people with a certain level of immunity and generally healthy, will have to compromise their immunity with a new treatment called mRNA that can, unless long term research is done, alter or even reverse what took 10’s of thousands of years in human evolution to create a natural strong immune system in humans?

I care about healthcare trends, innovation but NOT their gd stocks.

#76 mark on 01.09.22 at 6:46 pm

50% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated? so 50% are vaccinated. which means there is no correlation between being vaccinated and not ending up in a hospital. so why are they pushing vaccinations?

#77 Linda on 01.09.22 at 6:47 pm

Everyone keeps on citing other conditions as preventable. The logic is that if we don’t treat the unvaccinated then we should also exclude ‘other’ conditions that are preventable. Thing is, if someone has cancer, obesity, diabetes, heart disease etc. I won’t ‘catch’ what they have if they cough, sneeze or expectorate in my vicinity.

I do not advocate refusing treatment to anyone. However, I do think that it’s time to draw the line. There is at least one country that has set a policy that anyone who isn’t vaccinated for Covid by now will have to bear the costs for treatment should they be hospitalized for Covid. Said policy only applies to those who can be vaccinated but choose not to be.

#78 Garth's Son Drake on 01.09.22 at 6:49 pm

That is exactly it. Our health care system is not designed for this pandemic world and has completely buckled. So, for better or worse, mandates on anything that will help need to come quick. Who is their right mind would go into health care anymore as a career? They are going to have to massively raise wages to attract people to this sector. It is a very bad work environment that has been dropped on its head by the pandemic.

Now, the other virus that needs attention is that of home buying. This spring rutting season looks to be epic and has already started in Vancouver.

The line ups of people forming at home listings in Vancouver right now looks bigger than the covid testing sites – both are huge and looks bad.

And based on what I am seeing, it looks like Vancouver home prices are continuing the parabolic rise, unabated.

#79 Concerned Citizen on 01.09.22 at 6:50 pm

We are dramatically increasing our population without corresponding additions/improvements to our infrastructure and services, whether that be housing stock, hospital capacity, etc. You can only do that so long before you see real impacts for the worse, and the pandemic has brought those impacts to the fore in a big way. Obviously though, any health care system would be facing a burden under a pandemic of this scale.

Whatever your thoughts on immigration, I would think most would agree that if we are to have massive immigration levels relative to our population, we need the infrastructure and social spending in place to go along with it.

As Canadians we do need to get off our high horse that our health care system is the pinnacle of health care achievement. Any system can be improved, and ours is due an overhaul. But I’m very much against the U.S. system. In that system, private health insurers act as a massive and expensive private bureaucracy worse than anything we have in Canada. People don’t get preventative screenings due to cost, leading to higher costs down the road. And despite spending ~18% of their GDP on health care, they get worse outcomes and much worse coverage than dozens of other national health systems. We should take a serious look at our health care system, but I wouldn’t be looking south of the border for inspiration.

Our population is not ‘dramatically increasing’. Your prejudice is showing. – Garth

#80 Bigtuna on 01.09.22 at 6:50 pm

«There is no illusion about the anti-vax crowd»

«It’s a fair assessment most of the anti-vaxers would not have voted Liberal or NDP before the pandemic»

You’re making a lot of assumptions today Garth. Maybe a little bit more rigor?

#81 Linda on 01.09.22 at 6:54 pm

The country I cite as ceasing to cover the medical expenses of those who ‘choose to be unvaccinated’ is Singapore. Singapore is in the top 10 countries for GDP world wide.

#82 Unpinned on 01.09.22 at 6:54 pm

London, On is NDP and Liberal for the federal seats and just from small samples in high rises the groups who were “anti-vax” were a wide ranging group (most were dog affectionados) from twenty-something moms with baby carriages and thirty-something couples and many, many SENIORS…like older folks past 75 were agressively “anti-vax”. Also in Quebec the “anti-vaxers” are mostly Libs and never Cons.

#83 Faron on 01.09.22 at 6:55 pm

#64 millmech on 01.09.22 at 6:17 pm

And, just like that, your armband reference has caused your credibility to dwindle to zero. Goodbye.

#84 The Watcher ... 11th Post on 01.09.22 at 7:01 pm

Best Christmas Song.

She has a great voice !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ecDh7Q04k

#85 cuke and tomato picker e on 01.09.22 at 7:04 pm

We are all triple vaxed in my family except for our 14 year old grandson who is doubled vaxed and waiting for his third shot. Those who are not vaxed should have to wear a PURPLE ALERT VEST WHEN OFF THEIR PROPERTY. Also got my property assessment and looks like I earned $217,200.00 and counting because all properties on South Vancouver Island are bid UP when sold.

#86 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:05 pm

#45 Nonplused on 01.09.22 at 5:24 pm

OMG bud. That stalin, hitler, mao, kim comment. *chef’s kiss*. Perhaps reviewing communism, socialism and fascism would be useful for you? Nevermind, you are triple vaxxed against factual or reputable information. Keep on keepin’ on.

Wow, this comments section is a real hell hole sometimes. Where to you get these poeple, garth?

#87 Another Skeptic on 01.09.22 at 7:06 pm

To: #61 HUNGRY BEAR on 01.09.22 at 6:15 pm

True, our system was designed to take those other ‘evils’ into account. And now, we must modify that design to include the COVID evil, as we are now entering the ‘endemic’ phase of this mess, and it is abundantly clear that vaccines are not the solution we had hoped.

Let’s focus on fixing the health care system, so ALL can benefit now, and in the future if/when this slimy pathogen fades away. Blaming those who choose not to accept the vaccine is a knee-jerk response that doesn’t address those much bigger structural issues.

#88 M Baker on 01.09.22 at 7:11 pm

Not long ago Ontario flipped the switch and revoked OHIP coverage for Ontarians out if country.

Why not revoke OHIP coverage for unvaccinated “by choice” and bill them hefty for different Covid servicing in the medical realm… say $1000 a day for ICU and $500 for out-of-icu visitation.

Governments have to stop draconian measures such as madating these kinds of decisions… let the user choose
their plan… and pay accordingly. If the unvaccinated are
lucky and this is a hoax then they win the choose…

if not cha-ching the medical staff get a raise…

Governments stay out of Constitutional wrangling
and pricey lawyers and get less “stuff” on their face.

MB.

#89 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:15 pm

Regarding the political profile of the unvaxxed, don’t forget the hippy dippies. There’s a decent number (no idea what the actual stats are) of the hippy left who are refusing the vax in the corners of BC that smell of patchouli. Salt Spring Island for one. Cowichan Valley. The political spectrum is a circle or maybe a sphere — the right that grades toward libertarianism grades right into a portion of the left. In that crowd the mistrust of toward “chemicals” and “toxins” and “corporations” and “the man”.

Just FYI.

#90 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:18 pm

BTW, S&P futures just bounced decisively off 4650. That’s probably the bottom for the time being.

#91 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.09.22 at 7:19 pm

0n March 1st of 2020 ….

If they gave away a free case of beer with every vaccination….

Canada would have hit 100% vaccinated by May 31st 2020.
And we would have saved $200,000,000,000.00

#92 Wrk.dover on 01.09.22 at 7:23 pm

Traffic laws SUCK!

But I have a clean driving record.

Any similarity to a vax mandate here?

#93 DON on 01.09.22 at 7:23 pm

“May they relent. And may they not be gamed.”

Some of the folks I know who have yet to get the shot are worried about clots and other health reasons. Most of the unvaxxed I know aren’t Conservative voters and none are nutbars quite the opposite.

Being gamed is another fear…look to Australia. Initially they treated the virus as a common cold. Now the gov is treating the unvaxxed like 5th rate citizens.

The current political circus throughout the World is concerning.

Like much inflation which was transitory…now the new sales pitch is ‘Peak Inflation’. Never ever ever admit you are wrong until you have to. Right after that ‘peak inflation’ economic sermon the next article was about the costs of food oil about to surge.

In short credibility is hurting.

The following was sent to a friend by a school district.

“Upon reopening its important to take safety measures such as masks and vaccines to prevent the spread of covid.
Unfortunately vaccination does not stop the spread of covid which is stated by the WHO..
Although unvaccinated are welcome in district it important for family’s to consider their part in not spreading covid…
staying home when sick is the only proven way to stop the spread of covid…”

#94 Dawn on 01.09.22 at 7:26 pm

Now is a great time to invest in Toronto real estate.

#95 In Dog We Trust on 01.09.22 at 7:29 pm

Well told big boy,,, nice job..!!

#96 Sam on 01.09.22 at 7:31 pm

#66 reality check

How are Unvaxxed killing people? If someone is vaxxed boosted reboosted wearing 3 masks and gloves at the supermarket how is an unvaxxed person standing meters away going to kill them?????

#97 How long Bonnie on 01.09.22 at 7:32 pm

I am waiting for my booster in BC. And they keep reporting the stats about little booster uptake in my area. Maybe if we actually had boosters available there would be uptake.

I am well past the 6 month mark and have a spouse who works with Covid patients everyday in hospital.

When am I getting my text message Bonnie?

After a nice long xmas holiday shut down, they are slowly opening up vaccine sites again…slowly.

I have realized that in Canada that there is no longer any timely health care services anywhere. The system we have has been exposed and has collapsed.

Surgeries cancelled, ER closures. Ambulance takes 6 hours to pick up someone who is stuck on floor from a fall with broken hip.

This is a broken system that has crashed.

Stay safe, because if something happens you are on your own.

#98 OMG on 01.09.22 at 7:34 pm

I saw somewhere an observation that rings 100% true perusing these comments: “If you ever wondered how you would have acted during the Nazi era, now you know.”
For people clamoring to see the line of mandatory vaccinations crossed irreparably: do you hear yourselves talk? Does what you envision look like the kind of country in which you want your children to live? Are you not content yet that we moved from “two weeks to flatten the curve” to a “show papers” country? Do you not see the incompetence, the mind-numbing incompetence of this government and its minions? Do you look at daily stats and new studies? How did you become afraid of air, for crying out loud? Open your eyes the hell up.

#99 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:37 pm

#72 mark on 01.09.22 at 6:46 pm

Okay, I’m going to blow your mind mark. Ready?

Imagine we have 100% vaccination rate. I know, right? But just imagine.

Okay, now, of those 30+ million Canadians, one of them winds up in hospital with a breakthrough COVID case. Here’s the hard part: what percentage of hospitalized COVID cases are among the vaccinated? Yep, 100%. OMG one hundred percent. OUCH!

Total vax fail? Well, no. 29.999999 million people are not in hospital. The vaccines do a fine job of keeping people from needing invasive intubation (maybe google up a video on what the intubation process looks and sounds like) or BiPAP or simply keeping people from having to feel one the most uncomfortable sensations life dishes out — respiratory distress. RD is why waterboarding is an effective means of torture. You don’t want it.

#100 Amused on 01.09.22 at 7:37 pm

I am finding the anti vaccine crowd amusing at this point , with all of them using this as a moment to try to be justified. When the actual math and stat numbers are pointed out to them they generally have no retort. It seems basic math skills are going part in parcel with general lack of reasoning skills.

#101 Observer on 01.09.22 at 7:39 pm

#76 mark on 01.09.22 at 6:46 pm
50% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated? so 50% are vaccinated. which means there is no correlation between being vaccinated and not ending up in a hospital. so why are they pushing vaccinations?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh lookie, another math genius!

#102 Rob on 01.09.22 at 7:41 pm

So far no one has ever looked at or provided any stats on the unvaccinated and their comorbidities. Most of the unvaccinated have serious health issues to start with and simply can’t or should not be vaccinated. That is aboutv5-10% of the population.
Why are we asks society marginalizecand even criminalize these poor folks. They simply can’t and should not be receiving these vaccinates.

#103 Calgary on 01.09.22 at 7:49 pm

Canada lacks capable leaders; both at the federal and provincial levels.

#104 april on 01.09.22 at 7:50 pm

#8 – Where did you get that info? Your just making it up? BlueWater Health in Sarnia, Ontario. 90% in ICU are unvaccinated said chief of staff Michael Haddad.

#105 High IQ Anti-Vaxxer on 01.09.22 at 7:50 pm

Seven million will make the greatest, smartest, nation ever on this planet.

#106 Jens on 01.09.22 at 7:57 pm

“We get out of this together, or we live it without end.”

So well spoken. The divisiveness on both sides of the vaccination debate has put such a strain on society and does nothing to get us closer to the end of the pandemic.

#107 DON on 01.09.22 at 8:00 pm

#85 cuke and tomato picker e on 01.09.22 at 7:04 pm

Those who are not vaxed should have to wear a PURPLE ALERT VEST WHEN OFF THEIR PROPERTY.
*********
FFS!

#108 Mike in Airdrie on 01.09.22 at 8:02 pm

IMHO we need the Progressive Conservatives back. Mad Max can have the far right. I think most Canadians are ready for a responsible government without all the far right hoopla. I know I am.

#109 Omicron Kenobi on 01.09.22 at 8:02 pm

It does not matter what your politicians do, Luke.

I will win this game.

You will all lose.

#110 protea on 01.09.22 at 8:07 pm

“This is a stupid conversation and I’m not going to continue it”……This says it all !!!

Would an anti-vaxer have unprotected sex with a person who has Syphilis or gonorrhea both are contagious diseases ?

You can get it by having unprotected vaginal, anal, or oral sex with someone who has it.

#111 Sheesh on 01.09.22 at 8:07 pm

#40 Quebecer Here on 01.09.22 at 5:16 pm
Hi,

Quebecer here.
As of today’s new hospitalisations in Montréal:
“Of the new patients, 223 were double-vaccinated more than a week prior to checking in, 128 were unvaccinated or received one dose less than two weeks prior, and 10 received one dose more than two weeks prior.

…..
Vaccinated people showing up with incidental infections, unvaccinated there for their raging covid infection.

#112 DON on 01.09.22 at 8:08 pm

Are people more worried about COVID or Inflation.

Some younger friends are getting more worried about the cost of living SQUEEZE. People are really starting to notice.

The MSM needs to find a new bone. ‘Learning to live with COVID’ is the latest discussion out there.

#113 Billy buoy on 01.09.22 at 8:09 pm

Until a mass majority of the world get their FIRST vaccine shot, all of us will have to put up with more variants.

And who is going to PAY for the mass majority of the world to have the ability to even have the opportunity?

And never think for a second the drug companies will take a nickel less to make the vaccines more affordable for 3rd world countries.

Hey we all have to die sometime don’t we?

Live life..your not living if afraid of dying.

2 rate hikes max. Still pumping 90 Trillion a month into th system to save it, markets already freaking at the jawboning that has yet to start….

Worry about your finances and living, the virus is a distraction.

#114 Concerned Citizen on 01.09.22 at 8:11 pm

Our population is not ‘dramatically increasing’. Your prejudice is showing. – Garth

*****

Our population increased almost 1% in 2021, a pandemic year. If that isn’t a dramatic rate of increase – particularly for a mature western democracy – what exactly is?

With all due respect, we ought to be able to discuss immigration without being called prejudicial. There is nothing whatsoever about my comment, or any of my comments on immigration, that suggest prejudice. How about our default position not to be to assume the worst in people?

Is less than 1% called ‘dramatic’ in your world? And, yes, you are prejudiced against newcomers and have expressed that previously. Get over it. – Garth

#115 Soviet Capitalist on 01.09.22 at 8:13 pm

Garth,

Your numbers don’t look accurate and appear out of context.
Here is the official link for Ontario -> https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations

123 Unvaxxed, 137 fully vaxxed and 18 partially vaxxed. Unvaxxed are less than half and that number has been going down since Omicron started.

My own observations for the last few months show that ICU trends are a few weeks behind Hospitalizations. If you look at the latter (which is the pie chart above ICU), then you may notice that the unvaxxed are ~1/3 of hospitalization. ICU numbers are likely to look the same in a few weeks.

Conclusion: the vaccine is not effective against Omicron.

About why the nurses are unhappy: I have listened to a recent interview and apparently, it’s more about money. Currency devaluation has been high in Canada, but the politicians have capped their salary increases at 1%.

Conclusion: unhappy nurses are a result of policy mistakes, not the unvaxxed.

#116 VladTor on 01.09.22 at 8:13 pm

Garth,
Very good. Knowing you I didn’t expect that you release my posts.

But, I expect that you read links (that’s why posts was blocked).

More important for me to push you make you think and be skeptical about what the Canadian press and TV feed you.
I’m thinking – then I exist. Right!

You do not agree that an alternative point of view has a right to exist (on vaccination in this case) . Truth is born in controversy, isn’t it?

Note that I did not express my opinion, but only broadcast the opinion of professionals who know more than everybody altogether here. And if you are writing about vaccinations today, it would be fair to publish everything.

By the way, I was vaccinated, but I’m reading everything with interest – it’s good to know. And it remains to be seen how business will turn out with, for example, a completely new and never tested technology of the mrnA vaccine. I would not bet on a Pfizer stock. They have had to pay gigantic fines in the past. This time they may simply be ruined.

#117 SHANE GALLANT on 01.09.22 at 8:16 pm

Garth, Is our health care short on staff and doctors and beds? What about the east coast with everyone moving out there?

#118 Sail Away on 01.09.22 at 8:21 pm

Vax now, vax often. My Pfizer and Moderna stocks need your support.

#119 Dr V on 01.09.22 at 8:23 pm

Sigh.

I rode my bike today.

I did not crash.

#120 Satori on 01.09.22 at 8:33 pm

#16 Hermann Mahler on 01.09.22 at 4:16 pm
The healthcare system in Canada was broken, even before the pandemic started.
____________________
Sadly this is correct. The healthcare system needs people who watch the spending, some kind of outside watch dog company and I am Serious.
If I wrote about the totally insane things tax dollars go to, it is epic and don’t get me started on donated dollars, 80% go to cushion the seats of the workers, not the people they are intended for. I could literally write a book that would make everyone’s mouth drop!

#121 Cici on 01.09.22 at 8:44 pm

Everything you said tonight. So true. Way to hit each nail on the head, Garth! And thank you ;-)

#122 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.09.22 at 8:44 pm

#65 DR.V
Ponz/Fartz – gas $1.60 here, up from $1.47. still sitting at 3/4 tank in the F150 egoboost.
————-
Ego boost.
Freudian slip?
You are a nice guy, so I’m sure it’s just a typo

#123 The Woosh on 01.09.22 at 8:46 pm

#35 Adam on 01.09.22 at 5:06 pm
Most of the un-vaxxed that I know are women of child bearing age. They are concerned how their fetus or baby would be affected by this new vaccine technology. They might be right or wrong on their decisions but they are all highly educated and good critical thinkers.

This is a far cry from the cowardly ignorant rednecks that the media describes the typical antivaxxer as.

————————————

I tend to like this quote from Samuel Clemens: “Cauliflower is nothing but cabbage with a college education.”

As for “good critical thinking”, that’s a matter of interpretation.

#124 Diamond Dog on 01.09.22 at 8:51 pm

#93 DON on 01.09.22 at 7:23 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvxV95WcoSw&t=775s

It’s an excellent explanation of the relationship between the money supply and inflation. This dude nails it; excess speculation, risk, inflation, its vg and not a boring watch.

#125 Sydneysider on 01.09.22 at 8:53 pm

“There is no illusion about the anti-vax crowd. It’s composed of right-leaning, conservative-minded people suspicious of government, political creep and society’s relentless encroachment on civil rights and liberties.”

Through my kids’ high school contacts in Burnaby I would add that fearful Asian mothers are also in this group, so you might want to tone down the rhetoric.

My observation is that Canada needs two health care systems, including a new private one for unvaccinated people. The public system can’t cope with reality.

#126 Russ on 01.09.22 at 8:56 pm

It is time to limit some confusion.

A Trudeau decree:
Hencefore the terms “unvaccinated person, anti-vaxxer and conservative” will be repalced with the simple designation:
“witch”.

Carry on , you know what to do now.

Cheers, R

#127 kc on 01.09.22 at 8:58 pm

And I hope you choose to get some help. – Garth

*******

I hope you will enjoy Canada under a communist style rule when it comes. Me, I prefer not to live that way.

cheers

#128 Linda on 01.09.22 at 9:04 pm

#35 ‘Adam’ those ladies you cite must be discounting the warnings issued by the CDC (Center for Disease Control) & other sites warning that contracting Covid during pregnancy increases your risks for severe symptoms, including premature birth, stillbirth & other such less than joyful outcomes. Apparently Covid crosses the placental barrier; babies have been born with Covid. Not the best way to enter the world in my opinion, but hey! Darwin rules & all that.

#129 Son of Sam on 01.09.22 at 9:06 pm

#19 Sam on 01.09.22 at 4:19 pm

Folks need to stop labelling the unvaccinated “antivax”. Many of them have valid reason to choose what to put in their bodies. As for hospitals buckling why are we not focusing on decades of treating those with other preventable diseases and banning the root causes such as sugar, fast food, alcohol, smokes?

_______________________

Great points, Sam. Under different circumstances, I would agree with all of those assertions.

However, consider this.

1.) The unvaxxed will end up using a disproportionate amount of medical resources. Significantly more as the numbers above indicate, especially at a time when the system is overburdened.

2.) You would be putting those same medical resources at risk. Not fair to them when they are the ones trying to help you. (The jury is out on this one, though perhaps better safe than sorry.)

3.) You can easily prove if someone had been given vaccinations. Not so easy to prove how much sugar one has consumed…..

That being said, it appears you support freedom of choice by not requiring vaccines. So it would be hard to argue against what people do or do not consume. Focus should be on truth about these products.

Yup..shouldn’t be called antivax. I tell my wife this every time she uses that word. Negative connotation. And we are both double vaxxed.

#130 When the Whip Comes Down on 01.09.22 at 9:11 pm

Stone – Regardless of vaccine status, healthy people will survive the infection.
Do you have the same sentiment towards those who chose unhealthy lifestyles? Smokers drinkers those who engage in risky social behavior, iv drug users, the lot?
Make em pay? All pieces of sh1t? Do call them all out on it?

#131 Jorge on 01.09.22 at 9:14 pm

As of the latest Santé Quebec figures it is now 33% hospitalizations unvaxxed, 67% vaxxed and about 50/50 for ICU (which nevertheless, thankfully, remains well below previous waves).

#132 Concerned on 01.09.22 at 9:14 pm

Re: #22 pk – 100% Agreed.

113 people more in ICU because of unvaxxed cannot be handled by Ontario Hospitals? Complete BS.

Look at the news from yesterday. Out of 11,500 infected over 9600 were vaccinated. 86% infected are vaccinated, while we have 83% vaccination rate.

This vaccine simply does not work for Omicron. You have apparently higher chances as unvaxxed to not contract Omicron. CDA even changed the definition of “vaccine” to explain this “phenomena”.

We need a group math lesson, methinks. – Garth

#133 AM in MN on 01.09.22 at 9:15 pm

The bigger problem is the lack of truth telling by the political/medical establishment.

Never a mention of natural immunity from recovering from Covid. Why not?

If you want to tamp down the conspiracy theorists, try telling the truth. It wouldn’t be hard to give detailed facts about how many people of the un-vaxxed in ICU have had Covid before (near zero!) How many are young and at very low risk (also near zero!).

Is there a risk of heart problems for healthy young men from the Vax? (not zero) Does the Vax cause changes in menstrual cycles for young women? (not zero). Do we know the long term effects? (no, it’s too new).

All of the governments in the western world are lying about these questions. Why?

In the US, the lying MSM is starting to at least have to come clean about those in hospital FROM Covid and those who got it while there for something else. It’s a start. I suspect the other questions will need to be answered at some point. History has a way of telling the truth.

The destruction of credibility of the medical and political establishment over this will take a long time to recover from.

On the political front, don’t be so sure of your assumptions Garth. I lived among the wealthy white liberals of Northern Virginia for 5 years and knew many of them. They smelt the lies and self serving policies of the left, such as school shut downs and business closures, and then voted against it at the first opportunity.

#134 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.09.22 at 9:17 pm

@#86 Faron
“Where to you get these poeple, garth?”
+++

An Ontario WalMart OR the BC Lowerbrainland.

#135 Faron on 01.09.22 at 9:18 pm

#89 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:15 pm

Oops yvr_lurker said the same thing 50 comments earlier. Sorry.

#136 Observer on 01.09.22 at 9:18 pm

#105 High IQ Anti-Vaxxer on 01.09.22 at 7:50 pm
Seven million will make the greatest, smartest, nation ever on this planet.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then leave. 31 million won’t miss you.

#137 When the Whip Comes Down on 01.09.22 at 9:21 pm

Stone = bozo of the day
Well done dude! Lol

#138 Jorge Ranano on 01.09.22 at 9:23 pm

Correction: ICU jumped in the January 8th update so we actually have surpassed the previous high. Deaths are still much lower but we’re not out of the woods yet.

#139 Observer on 01.09.22 at 9:25 pm

#125 Sydneysider on 01.09.22 at 8:53 pm

“My observation is that Canada needs two health care systems, including a new private one for unvaccinated people. ”

Perhaps we should consider allocating a finite portion of healthcare resources to unvaccinated (by choice) – call them “unvaccinated COVID-19 treatment centres”. When they get overloaded, too bad, so sad. And perhaps also bill them for their stay.

That way the health care system no longer will need to put all hands on deck taking care of COVID-19 patients to the detriment of those needing non-COVID related treatments, surgeries, etc.

#140 Willem on 01.09.22 at 9:26 pm

Sorry, my last post should have said “castigating unvaxed” instead of castration; although the effect is not that different! Especially when our illustrious school teacher leader carelessly spouts venom to divide us!

#141 Observer on 01.09.22 at 9:27 pm

For the math challenged:

95% of serious injuries and deaths due to car accidents were amongst people wearing seat belts.

Do seat belts prevent injuries and save lives? Explain your answer using math.

#142 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.09.22 at 9:29 pm

33 jimmy zhao on 01.09.22 at 4:50 pm
Duclos pointed out the situation at home. In Quebec, he said, 50% of hospitalizations for Covid are unvaccinated folks. That’s a burden, he added, “which is very difficult for many people to understand.”

So then that means the other 50% of hospitalizations for Covid are Vaccinated folks. What’s so hard to understand ?

Math is hard, eh Jimmy? – Garth
————————
I think Jimmy is a fake Chinese.
The Chinese I know are very good in math.
UBC is full of them.
Must be using the Abacus at an early age, rather than the electronic calculators.

#143 HUNGRY BEAR on 01.09.22 at 9:31 pm

TO: #87 Another Skeptic on 01.09.22 at 7:06 pm
——————————————

So what your saying is a company of 100 employees is supposed to hire 1000 new full-time employees because they get a temporary surge of work to keep 1000 employees busy for a few years……. WRONG!

A pandemic is a once in a 100 year event. Come together and defeat it and then move on. The vaccine is doing what it was intended to do….prevent serious illness and death.

When there is a fire in your house that is not the time to start redesigning material to build your next home. You’ve got 1 goal and that is to put the fire out.

As long as we have the UN-VAXED walking the streets the fire will keep re-igniting.

Now is not the time to address any big structural issues, it is time to put the fire out!!

#144 mike from mtl on 01.09.22 at 9:33 pm

#113 Billy buoy on 01.09.22 at 8:09 pm

And never think for a second the drug companies will take a nickel less to make the vaccines more affordable for 3rd world countries.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

This is exactly why I have huge issues trusting all those vested interested slime ball pharma corps who have quite the history.

Why are third world and below not getting any of the miracle juice? Donations are not possible without approval why?

It’s money, plain and simple, the ‘first world’ has a blank cheque to pharma and their NDAs, everyone else well.. not so much. So they find alternatives.

Imagine a product, that your customer now wants/requires under duress, zero liability to efficacy or safety, strict NDA, product data being slowly redacted over the next 75 years and all alternatives being quashed as quackery.

To be clear, pharma drugs are a required evil but those corps are anything but benevolent.

#145 Super Genius on 01.09.22 at 9:38 pm

Right, doesn’t seem to make much sense to ‘fight the vax’. Vaccines have saved billions over the last century from all kinds of things. I think the reluctance really stems from the pendulum of hate for politicians swinging back towards outright revolution.

Politicians have spent their political capital over the past two decades and forced citizens to accept many nasty things when it’s obvious that egregious taxation for things like bogus climate change, sustainable development, globalization and multicultural multilateralism , sexualization and what is morally acceptable has screwed with too many peoples notion of right and wrong. The pendulum is swinging back.

Europeans had bowed to royals for centuries, sometimes in the midst of tribal warfare and self preservation. There sometimes was a case for strong leadership. But when the heavy gouging of decadence vs good leadership became unacceptable, people revolted. Off with their heads.

Trudeau and Carney are pushing Canadians in all the wrong directions and people are revolting. It’s not all because people are anti vaxx, but more that people are becoming increasing anti authoritarian.

The popular vote is saying that Trudeau/Butts ‘super genius’ seat manipulations, in spite of a popular vote that rejects Trudeau, is a revolutionary spirit that might be quelled if Trudeau-Carney-Butts weren’t full on destroying the country in a majority of peoples eyes. People are pissed, the pot is boiling over.

The unvaxxed are likely more of those who hate Trudeau ( or Biden-Macron-Johnson for that matter) and have seen their power over government at the ballot box being stolen . It’s time to change those leaders who have been abject failures who are only being propped up by the Green Goon Profiteers and Globalist interests.

#146 Another Deckchair on 01.09.22 at 9:41 pm

Anti-vaxers and car drivers have many things in common.

Both believe that they are “intelligent” and “more capable than the rest”.

Cars kill many people a day. And injure many, many more.

Cars are driven by people who think they don’t need to follow the rules.

How many of us can say for certain that “I follow the rules of the road – the speed limit, stopping at stop signs, know how 4-way stops and traffic circles work, understand how to read no left/right turn signs, and realize that I’m just an average-skill driver”.

What I see when I walk our dog along the streets in our neighbourhood have convinced me that nobody follows the rules. Is it any wonder that we have anti-Vax people who think they are smarter than the rest? It is in our blood to be idiots.

(PS: Yes, I am Vaxed, and have the booster and think anti-vaxers should go to some other planet.)

#147 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.09.22 at 9:53 pm

#45 non-plussed
Nj Which leads me to my controversial statement of the day: I’d rather have the unvaccinated among us than the socialists. No pandemic ever killed as many of a nation’s own people as socialists like Stalin, Hitler, Kim, or Mao.
——————————
Not controversial at all.
Pretty mainstream in the States.
“Trucker” Carlson and all the Trumpublicans would agree with you.
But History will tell that Stalin, Hitler, Kim and Mao were not vaccinated against COVID.
That’s the problem with your argument.

#148 Ballingsford on 01.09.22 at 9:55 pm

Quebec has it figured out by needing vax proof for liquor and cannabis stores.
Over a 400% or more uptake in vaccines.

#149 Dr V on 01.09.22 at 9:57 pm

122 Ponz – a while back somebody was blogging as “Ford Egoboost”.
I found it quite witty. I thought it may have been you.

I can chirp it coming out of a roundabout. Lots of power and surprisingly torquey for a 6 cylinder.

#150 God on 01.09.22 at 10:01 pm

#86 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:05 pm
#45 Nonplused on 01.09.22 at 5:24 pm

Wow, this comments section is a real hell hole sometimes. Where to you get these poeple, garth?

————

Careful, Faron. I wouldn’t want you to fall off your high horse and break some more ribs!

#151 Doug t on 01.09.22 at 10:02 pm

I have never been so bored – this “world crisis” has become a joke – the human race has lost its collective mind – we are doomed and it’s laughable

#152 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.09.22 at 10:02 pm

54 HH on 01.09.22 at 6:02 pm
I didn’t vote Liberal or NDP and I don’t plan to vote for either in the future. The country should be run as a business with qualified people at the helm. We don’t have either. I have been vaccinated three times in the last six months hoping that will get me through this sickness. All of my immediate family have been vaccinated, also. Personally, I would be ok with a private system working alongside the public one. In fact, I would vote for it. The dental industry is private. The optometrist industry is private. So, why not the rest of our health care? We should, at least, give it a shot. (Pardon the pun)
———————
You ever got a bridge done?
Obviously not.
6,000 beaver pucks.

#153 Faron on 01.09.22 at 10:04 pm

We need a group math lesson, methinks. – Garth

Pretty sure in the very near future, math will be labelled a “wokeist” discipline and cast aside for something much more manly like… guesstimating. I mean, they teach math in universities, so it must be crap, right?

#154 OK, Doomer on 01.09.22 at 10:04 pm

Looks to me like the usual; Quebec City and Toronto have a problem and they think that the rest of the country has to march in lockstep with them suffer the burden of their choices, for bad or ill. Not for good.

Same as can be said for things like gun violence. TO has an out of control handgun smuggling issue and gang violence, so Trudeau’s solution is to turn law abiding gun owners in the rest of the country into criminals.

I’m all in favor of trying different ideas out on a small scale. Start with immediate and mandatory vaccinations in Toronto. If the government can prove that it is safe and effective, then roll it out to other regions.

But the default position should be that mandatory vaccinations are not needed until prima facie evidence of effectiveness is clearly demonstrated.

The government, unfortunately does not have the right of innocent until proven guilty. Only citizens have that right.

As free people we must assume that the government is guilty until proven innocent. That is the only way that weak citizens can stand against an all powerful government.

#155 Sail Away on 01.09.22 at 10:05 pm

#144 mike from mtl on 01.09.22 at 9:33 pm

This is exactly why I have huge issues trusting all those vested interested slime ball pharma corps who have quite the history.

Why are third world and below not getting any of the miracle juice? Donations are not possible without approval why?

———-

Hey Mike, here’s your chance. Do your part to help the situation. Link below.

Those poor third world countries thank you and people like you who try, try, try to help instead of just complaining and expecting someone else to do it. Kudos! Suggest you go big.

https://www.unicef.org/coronavirus/deliver-history

#156 Stone on 01.09.22 at 10:06 pm

#64 millmech on 01.09.22 at 6:17 pm
#41 Stone
I bet your hoping that they will force the unvaxxed to wear arm bands when outside with the biological hazard symbol on it so they are easily avoidable. The best part is you can go down memory lane as that symbol is usually on a yellow background, not a star this time but the symbolism is the same.
That way there when you want to denigrate another human being you can look back in history for the proper way to do it so there is no guilt.
Many relatives of mine never made it out of Europe and when I see people dehumanizing others I can feel that we have learned absolutely nothing from the past.

———

Remind us all what anything you had to say have anything to do with anti-vaxers or have anything to do with what I said. By any chance, are you on crack?

#157 Faron on 01.09.22 at 10:07 pm

#141 Observer on 01.09.22 at 9:27 pm

For the math challenged:

95% of serious injuries and deaths due to car accidents were amongst people wearing seat belts.

Do seat belts prevent injuries and save lives? Explain your answer using math.

—-

I can’t answer unless you tell me this: does the seatbelt monitor my thoughts with 5G?

#158 Pro-Vaccine on 01.09.22 at 10:08 pm

I was going to comment something along the lines of “Please be careful and protect yourself, this choice of being obstinate against the vaccine mandates could destroy your future!!!”

Then i googled the actual consequences of not following the law….

“cant buy a home” many young americans already feel like this wont be possible for them

“might not even be able to qualify to rent” many already cant afford rentals

“lowering your networth” building wealth honestly feels like a pipe dream

“Put Your Dreams on Hold …..You may find yourself with a criminal record, losing a job that offers you more fulfillment and purpose for a career with a higher salary” i literally dont know anybody from my university who has a job that they couldnt have gotten without a degree

Young Canadians and Americans are starting to feel like they have nothing to lose, the reality is very sad. I witnessed a young man coughing in the faces of elderly people in front of a retirement home in Toronto.

#159 fishman on 01.09.22 at 10:14 pm

This mandatory vax talk is just b.s. talk. Little potato & his merry band of spudlickers can threaten & ostracize to their hearts content. Elites, Experts, almost orgasmic commanding the great unwashed: Follow our rules or else! For your common good! We’re here to save you! What are they going to do? Arrest some antivaxer, tie him to a chair and inject? The victimizer abandoning common sense & rationality along with the victim? The problems exponentially expand after a resistor is untied & let loose.

Some other nations are doing it will monthly fines for those who refuse, plus loss of social privileges, like shopping. – Garth

#160 Dutch Much? on 01.09.22 at 10:16 pm

Overheard in the Hague:

EU bureaucrat#1: “We’ve mandated vaccinations, but the citizens are revolting”

EU bureaucrat #2: “They sure are revolting. We’ve also tried mandatory mascara, lip gloss and perfume but nothing helps. We’re thinking of mandatory paper bags next”

#161 Stone on 01.09.22 at 10:17 pm

#130 When the Whip Comes Down on 01.09.22 at 9:11 pm
Stone – Regardless of vaccine status, healthy people will survive the infection.
Do you have the same sentiment towards those who chose unhealthy lifestyles? Smokers drinkers those who engage in risky social behavior, iv drug users, the lot?
Make em pay? All pieces of sh1t? Do call them all out on it?

———

If they harm others to feed their unhealthy vice, then absolutely. If they don’t, I don’t care what they do to themselves. They’re already self-destructive. If they want to self-destruct, they will do so and no one can stop them. If they begin to hurt others by robbing them, assaulting them, killing them, etc., they’ve crossed the line. What happens when you become their victim?

You telling me POS like that who would harm others should be respected? I don’t think so.

All those vices are choices. Yes, choices. They want to partake in those vices, well, they also need to pay for the consequences of those vices. That means health issues derived from those vices should not be paid for by those who don’t. You can’t have it both ways.

It’s always those who partake in these risky type of activities that try to argue this point. It’s obvious you partake in one or more of these vices.

You’re weak. It doesn’t mean I need to feel bad about myself because you are weak and undisciplined. Look in the mirror instead and face the facts instead.

#162 Senator Bluto on 01.09.22 at 10:21 pm

#147 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.09.22 at 9:53 pm
#45 non-plussed
Nj Which leads me to my controversial statement of the day: I’d rather have the unvaccinated among us than the socialists. No pandemic ever killed as many of a nation’s own people as socialists like Stalin, Hitler, Kim, or Mao.
——————————
Not controversial at all.
Pretty mainstream in the States.
“Trucker” Carlson and all the Trumpublicans would agree with you.
But History will tell that Stalin, Hitler, Kim and Mao were not vaccinated against COVID.
That’s the problem with your argument.

==============================

And that’s how you can tell that cognitive dissonance just hit Ponzius. Ponzius didn’t address the point that non-plussed raised, but instead chose to comment on something unrelated and irrelevant and pretend that he addressed the comment.

Game set and match point to Non-Plussed.

#163 Numbers on 01.09.22 at 10:26 pm

“280 people in ICU, 137 jabbed and 143 unjabbed.”

Garth, absolutely not arguing for anti-vax group, but as a guy who dives deep into numbers and who seeks clear data, you surely know how important detail is in this data point.

Some random thoughts…

Anti-vax tend to be conservative. Conservative tend to be older people. You know the old saying “If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain”.

Well, older tend to be conservative, and in this case more at risk as well. I don’t know how to feel about this group. On one hand, they are in the higher risk groups – those the older age of this group means it could sway this ratio. On the other hand, do we not respect these people’s right to choose? If mandating, should we mandate for 65+ as they are at highest risk group? But then again, have they not earned the respect over their years? If I’m unsure, should I force them against their will? How? Arrest them, restrain them and inject them?

And if not – and the consequences are economic or access based to jobs or you can’t get a beer at a beer store, then that’s highly discriminatory. More well off will be fine, poor will be hit hard. That’s as unCanadian as it gets Garth.

Even the official health websites say one needs to give informed consent before accepting the vaccine.

Anyone getting the COVID-19 vaccine, including children and youth, must provide informed consent.

It says…and I quote:”Informed consent means that you understand the risks and benefits of getting or not getting it.”

First, how can children give informed consent? How crazy is that statement even? Just the fact that this is allowed is nuts.

Informed consent always been the issue for anti-vexers, because so much information is being suppressed. WHY? The government and health agencies are blocking this information only feeding the anti-vexers. If there was ever a time for TOTAL TRANSPARENCY, this is it. After all, how can one give informed consent when information is not released?

Back to this “280 people in ICU, 137 jabbed and 143 unjabbed.”

Even I, vaccinated, would so very much like to see this data with more details. Age. Region. Comorbidities. Addictions. Pre-existing diseases, conditions, issues. Body mass index. Past 5 year prescription history – any immunosuppressants?

Oh sure, it wouldn’t change the split of vaccinated/unvaccinated – but we would know oh so much more. This would potentially be able to address the anti-vaxer’s objections/concerns as well.

#164 Waltersafety on 01.09.22 at 10:31 pm

There is no illusion about the vaxxed crowd they are now a easy target for a designed bio weapon and the kind of event the World Economic Forum craves . You know a depopulation event .

#165 Ballingsford on 01.09.22 at 10:33 pm

#149 Dr V on 01.09.22 at 9:57 pm
122 Ponz – a while back somebody was blogging as “Ford Egoboost”.
I found it quite witty. I thought it may have been you.

I can chirp it coming out of a roundabout. Lots of power and surprisingly torquey for a 6 cylinder.
****
You get my vote for man of the year by chirping your tires in a roundabout. I fart in a roundabout and my tires squeal.

Were the roads icy?

#166 COVID Variant Math on 01.09.22 at 10:35 pm

So which hospital would you rather go to if you need COVID treatment?

1. A hospital full of COVID patients with out adequate staff as all asymptomatic COVID positive staff have been sent home to cool their heels for two weeks.

2. A fully staffed hospital treating COVID patients where staff are COVID positive, but asymptomatic?

Containing this thing is not an option, nor was it ever. Only people with a child’s view of the universe such as child-politicians and child-health care critics with political axes to grind still preach containment. That horse left the stable long ago.

Grown ups who can do math see that this thing is now uncontainable and a strategy of effective treatment of as many people as possible is now the only option and that containment is an impediment to treatment, not a tool of treatment.

The math that needs to be done is how to treat as many people as possible. And that means we need people who are less sick caring for those who are more sick.

We don’t have the luxury of benching health care workers who have a much milder form of the the same disease as their patients.

#167 Buford Wilson on 01.09.22 at 10:36 pm

A patient in the USA is a customer.

In Canada he’s an unwanted burden on the system.

#168 leebow on 01.09.22 at 10:38 pm

Today’s steerage kinda matches with all the usual cabin talk and manifesto-like posts. Feels like the Unabomber is lurking around.

#169 Dogs Not Barking on 01.09.22 at 10:43 pm

The government, unfortunately does not have the right of innocent until proven guilty. Only citizens have that right.

As free people we must assume that the government is guilty until proven innocent. That is the only way that weak citizens can stand against an all powerful government.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think the First Nations figured that out before the rest of Canadians clued in. We should listen to them and have the same level of distrust of the government as they do.

We would all learn a lot.

#170 Judge Dredd on 01.09.22 at 10:50 pm

#164 Waltersafety on 01.09.22 at 10:31 pm
There is no illusion about the vaxxed crowd they are now a easy target for a designed bio weapon and the kind of event the World Economic Forum craves . You know a depopulation event .

***

Yup.

Compliant ones live and get to dine indoors.

Those who ask questions and cause trouble, die.

#171 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.09.22 at 10:52 pm

#157 Senator Bluto on 01.09.22 at 10:21 pm
#147 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.09.22 at 9:53 pm
#45 non-plussed
Nj Which leads me to my controversial statement of the day: I’d rather have the unvaccinated among us than the socialists. No pandemic ever killed as many of a nation’s own people as socialists like Stalin, Hitler, Kim, or Mao.
——————————
Not controversial at all.
Pretty mainstream in the States.
“Trucker” Carlson and all the Trumpublicans would agree with you.
But History will tell that Stalin, Hitler, Kim and Mao were not vaccinated against COVID.
That’s the problem with your argument.

==============================

And that’s how you can tell that cognitive dissonance just hit Ponzius. Ponzius didn’t address the point that non-plussed raised, but instead chose to comment on something unrelated and irrelevant and pretend that he addressed the comment.

Game set and match point to Non-Plussed.
———————-
Senator,
I completely agree with you.
The only way I can respond to Non-plusses idiotic arguments is by going all out cognitive dissonance.
But you’re obviously smarter than most of us.
So, please explain what non-plussed meant.

#172 Dragonslayer on 01.09.22 at 10:52 pm

#64 Millmech

#41 Stone
I bet your hoping that they will force the unvaxxed to wear arm bands when outside with the biological hazard symbol on it so they are easily avoidable. The best part is you can go down memory lane as that symbol is usually on a yellow background, not a star this time but the symbolism is the same.
That way there when you want to denigrate another human being you can look back in history for the proper way to do it so there is no guilt.
Many relatives of mine never made it out of Europe and when I see people dehumanizing others I can feel that we have learned absolutely nothing from the past.
===============================
Yes, because the Holocaust and taking an effective vaccine to protect yourself and others are completely the same. Dramatic much?

#173 Lead Paint on 01.09.22 at 10:53 pm

I expect better from you. The biggest threat to our country is the parroting of lies coming from phama and our government and media dividing our citizenry with hate and blame to district from their ineptitude and complicity. Don’t feed the division.

As others have pointed out, it’s not one stereotypical demographic avoiding new vaccines. Most of your additional rhetoric is equally flawed. Forcing 5 year olds to risk themselves to protect seniors is immoral.

#174 Judge Dredd on 01.09.22 at 10:55 pm

#164 Waltersafety on 01.09.22 at 10:31 pm
There is no illusion about the vaxxed crowd they are now a easy target for a designed bio weapon and the kind of event the World Economic Forum craves . You know a depopulation event .

***

Oh…you’re saying the vaxxed are the sheep that will be lead to slaughter? I read too quickly, judged too soon.

#175 Garth of Izar on 01.09.22 at 11:02 pm

How does one explain to a pack of losers that that are in fact losers.

The Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce had a paper but that won’t help.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canadian-wage-growth-lagging-u-s-due-to-immigration-levels-cibc-1.1704641

#176 Albertaguy in AB on 01.09.22 at 11:11 pm

I like the QC approach, “oh and we just happen to have set up the vax tent just outside the liqour stores” good idea.

#177 The West on 01.09.22 at 11:12 pm

I understand your take on this Garth. Fact is, COVID has been politicized from the start. Vaccines are not going to get us out of cases – anyone who thinks anything different is not paying attention to empirical data. Using the “Healthcare is public so we have the right to do what we want” is a dangerous, DANGEROUS, slippery slope. If we can agree that this engineered virus (which was designed for biological warfare) is going to be with us for some time we had better accept that it needs to run its course. Yes, people are going to die and this is not a good outcome but lockdowns forever? Digital IDs? Complete authoritarian control of the population at large?

It is time to pick the poison….and my poison is not for the creep of an overbearing socialist government who believes human engineering is the answer.

COVID is real (has the world been biologically attacked?) but it is not unprecedented in the human psyche. We need to stop believing this is “armageddon” unless, of course, we do what we’re told.

Unless, of course, there has been a nefarious plan all along…..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera_outbreaks_and_pandemics

…something is very, very suspicious about all of this

#178 Dr V on 01.09.22 at 11:14 pm

165 ballingsford – just because I can do something doesn’t mean I do it often, regularly or at all. I generally drive it like the old retired guy that I am. And punching it IN the roundabout would be dangerous. Oh and tires don’t chirp on icy roads. Well maybe in the movies.

Thank you for your vote. Ponzie thinks I’m a good guy too. Happy farting.

#179 westcdn on 01.09.22 at 11:26 pm

Things will happen to make me fight. I can be mean. My parents were tough. I did what had to be done. Never did figure my mother – so strong then weak the next. I never crossed my father unless I was willing to be cuffed.

Funny I turned like him – a Frenchman with attitude and what I think is humor. Nonetheless he was proud of me.

As for investing I am still in the game. I get hurt now and again but is just makes me tougher but not right. I am not doing badly. Perhaps I will look Elon Musk in the face.

#180 Robert Ash on 01.09.22 at 11:39 pm

I think for no other reason, than the Virus mutates, and vaccines can stop that… It is the Threat of Compounding Mutations, that I suggest is paramount, and logic suggests either strict Quarantine, or Join the Fight.

#181 Rumpel on 01.09.22 at 11:41 pm

Why do you think you can call brave people chicken? A? You are the chicken ,along with the sheep that put this poison in their bodies because the the fear. Garth i was wrong when i respected you.

#182 Rural Rick on 01.10.22 at 12:04 am

I get why you want to close the comments Big G.

#183 Squire on 01.10.22 at 12:08 am

The vaccines are leaky. Search up bird flu vaccines for a potential scary outcome.
I have the vaccines but don’t agree with mandating it. We are on a slippery slope.
The most divisive person in Canada is actually T2. He’s scarier than covid and for all our benefit I hope he goes away. Woe to us if he wins a majority
Think past all the noise…..the only thing the media is afraid of is covid being over.

#184 Flanders on 01.10.22 at 12:09 am

To what end? Jabbed every three months?

#185 Senator Bluto on 01.10.22 at 12:11 am

Senator,
I completely agree with you.
The only way I can respond to Non-plusses idiotic arguments is by going all out cognitive dissonance.
But you’re obviously smarter than most of us.
So, please explain what non-plussed meant.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pretty simple. Socialism is deadlier than any pandemic the world has known. Non-plussed is quite correct, unvaccinated people are a danger to themselves, but not to the population at large.

Socialists, in contrast are a danger not only to themselves but to all around them. Even great distances are no defence from socialists.

Vaccination is not a concern to people being actively hunted by their governments for political crimes. Just ask the Uyghurs in the socialist workers paradise of China.

#186 Squire on 01.10.22 at 12:13 am

#173 Lead Paint on 01.09.22 at 10:53 pm

I have to agree. It has gotten ridiculous now and many things are not adding up.

#187 AB on 01.10.22 at 12:14 am

Anti-vaxxers are of no particular religious or political stripe. The common factor seems to be that they are stupid. Kind of like the folks in the old Wild West who were first in line to buy sugar water from the Snake oil salesman. All I know is that I am sick of this wicked covid for two years now. I think it’s time to put things in perspective and stop all these ridiculous border restrictions like PCR tests to get home to Canada. Covid is all over the world. At least help our poor tourist industries get going again . And stop the political theatric’s which are pandering to the pearl clutchers. Enough already. Life in this world is not forever.

#188 When the Whip Comes Down on 01.10.22 at 12:15 am

Stone – no I dont partake in vices that are damaging to my health.
But you remain bozo of the day LOL
No changing that buddy

#189 Jon B on 01.10.22 at 12:17 am

“You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that’s clear, I will choose Freewill” NP.

#190 Spectacle on 01.10.22 at 12:27 am

#34 TurnerNation on 01.09.22 at 4:56 pm
This is the final shutdown,
This is what the Great Reset looks like:

— Some #s via a financial guy.

https://twitter.com/rubiconcapital_/status/1480014884708528130
“In Ontario, in a typical MONTH, we:
-Admit ~93,000 patients to hospital
-Perform ~89,000 surgeries/procedures
-Admit ~9,000 patients to ICU
-Ventilate ~4,500 patients
And we are to believe the 123 unvaccinated currently in ICU w/Covid-19 are a threat to the hospital system?”

————————————‘
Turner Nation,
This was a compelling commentary!
In addition , sums up the Federal & Provincial fraud and hoax of “governance” surrounding the last 2 years in Canadian covid response.

Brilliant my friend.

Everyone that I know that is catching covid/omicron, s multi innoculated , even a 3rd useless stab-jabbed!

#191 DON on 01.10.22 at 12:41 am

#167 Buford Wilson on 01.09.22 at 10:36 pm
A patient in the USA is a customer.

In Canada he’s an unwanted burden on the system.

*******

A patient in the US can go broke also, if not covered.

#192 Meh on 01.10.22 at 12:59 am

#26 HUNGRY BEAR on 01.09.22 at 4:29 pm
Those who choose to be UN-VAXED have the blood on their hands of the sick and weak who have died since the Vax was available to them.

The UN-VAXED should be publicly shamed, denied the same healthcare of the VAXED who decided to fight this monster, and billed for every penny of treatment they recieve when they end up in our healthcare system due to covid.

SHAME ON THE UN-VAXED!
OTHERS ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF YOU.

___________________________________________

Trolling like a boss! At least I sincerely hope you are. If not seek immediate help.

#193 stage1dave on 01.10.22 at 1:17 am

Kudos to our host for enabling this discussion, I have a strange feeling it wasn’t a discussion he was looking forward to enabling…

In the short term this “pandemic” has simply hi-lited the institutional and beaurocratic rot that has become endemic in western societies over the last several decades; to say nothing of the serious decline in cognitive ability of a great deal of the citizenry. Lack of civility is increasing and will get worse (much worse) thanx to our “leaders” and their collective and individual sanctioning of all this division.

I’m not going to rehash a pile of statistics here, anyone who’s been paying attention to the numbers over the last 2 years knows that Covid 19 isn’t exactly fulfilling its promise of wiping out the worlds’ population. The one sector of society that was at risk (the elderly, frequently with multiple comorbidities) wasnt adequately protected, and the rest of us (under 70, those without comorbities) have been subjected to a daily barage of fear mongering and breathless updates on hospital capacity (or lack thereoff) by whatever infobabe is occupying the anchor chair.

Ummm…perhaps someone, somewhere, could have thought about INCREASING hospital capacity; and staffing levels?

Or are we just supposed to be continually entertained by the NHL continually cancelling games because the fully vaccinated players are going into “covid protocol” after playing to an arena of fully vaccinated fans?

Or how about the obvious fact that the “vaccines” prevent neither transmission nor covid itself, but are said to prevent severe outcomes requiring hospitalization…is that what this is really all about? To avoid stressing out our health care system? Again, TPTB have had almost TWO YEARS to deal with this situation…a foresightful person in charge, honestly interested in the best public health outcomes would have taken more concrete action than continually blaming the “unvaccinated”.

Reasonably intelligent people realized a long time ago that a pandemic that mathematically isn’t a pandemic, the cure for which are supposedly vaccines that aren’t vaccines (because they neither cure nor prevent transmission) is contradictory and doesn’t make much sense…THATS why there’s a good chunk of “anti vaxxers” out there.

A good chunk of us also understand how our immune systems work (both of ’em) and having had it already, I’m good with my acquired antibodies. I’m also good with staying away from hospitals in the event of (for all I know) the on-the-horizon “zulu” variant, because I’m aware of treatment protocols (Remdesivir and Intubation) and survival outcomes; so all the Vax groupies worried about their health care dollars getting pissed away on someone who isn’t needled can settle down.

Note to leadership: if you wish to eradicate conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists, please construct sensible, logical, explanations for situations that make sense; and enable timely and sensible reactions, instead of constantly riding a nonsensical narrative and turning the CBC into the “Covid Broadcasting Corporation” to haraunge your population on an hourly basis!

I’ve personally fed up with this horseshit, as some of you may have gathered…half my family is vaxx’d, half ain’t; and we’ve managed to get thru the last couple years of reduced gatherings without an FU contest over dinner, without my having to throw one of my BILs out the side door, or without an angry word. Raised voices? Yup…disagreements? Plenty…hey, if we can do it, anyone can!

Lastly, to all the pro-vaxxers out there, chill out fer chrisakes. Do some research about how your body fights off infections, and learn about “pathogenic priming” for instance. And ask yourself how many “boosters” were required for all those childhood diseases you were inoculated against?

OK, not quite lastly…just refreshed my drink, and I gotta walk down a hall full of pictures…my maternal grandfather’s battalion before shipping out; may 1916…Ypres, Passchendalle, Vimy Ridge, wounded 4 times; an uncle in the Merchant Marine (ocean-going boilermaker) sunk twice in the NA over 4 years of transatlantic runs; a close family friend who got 24 trips under his belt in a Hally before a 110 caught him and his crew over the channel and ended his tour and flying career; and a grad shot of my old man at OTU completion on Clunks in ’58…

WTF were these people fighting for? And if that country still exists, I’d like to see some evidence of it…

I’m pretty damned certain their motivation wasn’t making sure a future generation would roll up their sleeves (repeatedly!) just because an amalgamation of government and pharmaceutical companies told them to.

#194 Blobby on 01.10.22 at 2:24 am

@#8 DaveDorf:

Math not your strong point is it?

#195 Diamond Dog on 01.10.22 at 5:11 am

#163 Numbers on 01.09.22 at 10:26 pm

Your hypothesis would be more reasonable, if not for the fact that the 65+ crowd has the highest vaccination rate. Can’t remember if it was U.S. or Canadian, but those over 65+ had a 94% vaccination rate. Understandable, as the elderly have been most impacted by Covid19.

Worth noting, while we read vaccination rates being in the 60’s in the U.S., this factors in ages under 18. if we look at 18+ with the latest updates from the CDC, the vaccination rate in the U.S. is 85.5%.

As for vaccinated vs unvaccinated in hospitals, most data I’ve read (some within the last few days) is running 50/50. It’s the ICU’s that lean heavily toward the unvaccinated that make the difference here.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-covid-19-hospitalizations-omicron-canada-data-vaccinated-unvaccinated/

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/omicron-vaccines-remain-best-defence-131444985.html

ICU ratios of vaccinated vs unvaccinated could change however in the coming months as 2 shot vaccine efficacy continues to wear off. Severity also naturally increases as we get closer to February and March, related to a drop in Vitamin D production from a drop in exposure to UV light. Readers would do well to read my earlier comment concerning vaccine efficacy fade. (antigenic drift)

It’s no media secret that a high number of mutations around the spike proteins were found in Omicron. The prevailing hypothesis so far, is that Omicron has mutated to more easily infect upper airway passages explaining Omicron’s much higher transmissibility. It is hypothesized that this type of mutation has made Omicron less able to infect lower airways (lungs) and has led Omicron to becoming a variant with less severity than Delta.

Viral mutations improving access or inaccess to cells however, is not the only consideration. Viruses hijack the infected cell’s own replication machinery to replicate more viruses for itself. In the case of Covid19, this is done through +RNA and is so classified (class 4 Baltimore). All technical explanations aside, it could also be that Omicron has undergone a mutation improving it’s hijacking of cellular replication machinery to speed up virus replication.

Or, it could be combination of both.

To summarize, we need more data. We need to know what the direct comparisons are between Omicron and Delta with the unvaccinated and so far, thanks to the holiday’s, such data is limited. The best we have so far is a U.K. Imperial college data subset that compared Omicron v Delta with over 320,000 cases (53,000 Omicron). Data conclusions are well summarized here:

https://www.pmp-magazine.com/2021/12/23/on-the-imperial-college-study-on-omicron-severity/

#196 Diamond Dog on 01.10.22 at 5:44 am

#177 The West on 01.09.22 at 11:12 pm

Human engineered virus, only the “unlettered” can name even just one man made virus. You flatter humanity, come on dude. Do you have any idea of how many virus’s have occurred in nature long before we knew what they even were? Please don’t tell us that mother nature isn’t quite capable of engineering Covid19 all on her own:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

#197 Rosemary Ernst on 01.10.22 at 6:27 am

I am working RN, fully vaccinated- have been firmly in the ‘Get Vax, follow the rules ‘camp.

ENOUGH with the unVaxx’d Demonization.

A little perspective before you start throwing unvaccinated into the street without care-and mandating vaccines.

Multiple credible studies indicate current vaccines no match for this variant.
(Sample
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211223151542.htm)

To those who see unVaxx’d as the root of all pandemic evil-VAXX’d are currently the Omicron target and hence the ones spreading Covid 19, albeit a much different animal than Delta.

AHS Covid data Jan. 6/22:

New cases – 80.92-fully vaccinated. 17.8% unvaccinated.
Alberta fully vaccinated 85.4 %, 89.5 single dose.

Currently hospitalized-52.78 % fully vaccinated (266) , 43.25 % (216) unvaccinated.
ICU numbers -Declined from 95 on Nov. 22/21 to 65 Jan. 5/22
With 80+% new cases fully vaccinated the vaccinated hospitalized will likely continue to increase.
Hospital numbers include ‘incidental Covid’ numbers-increased now with Omicron’s often less severe presentation.

ICU numbers -Declined from 95 on Nov. 22/21 to 65 Jan. 5/22
– DESPITE active reported case numbers surging from 4982 Nov.22/21. to 43,414 Jan. 6/22.
(most estimate new cases currently vastly underreported)

Does not appear that mandating current vaccines will stop Omicron, but it may help break Canadians into warring factions. From what I am seeing in the comments, it already has.

#198 ogdoad on 01.10.22 at 7:10 am

Well done sirs!

Og

#199 Another Skeptic on 01.10.22 at 7:31 am

#143 HUNGRY BEAR on 01.09.22 at 9:31 pm

A pandemic is a once in a 100 year event. Come together and defeat it and then move on. The vaccine is doing what it was intended to do….prevent serious illness and death.

—————————————————————-

I get it. You want out of the mess. So do I, but jabbing more Canadians won’t do it. We are a global community. None of these variants were spawned domestically. The noble 100% vax goal for Canada is meaningless when we are all susceptible in weeks to some new variant that appears from a village in sub-Saharan Africa.
To make the point, check out Gibraltar – they have > 99% vax rate, and are also seeing the same Omicron outbreak. The vax may be useful at reducing serious health outcomes and death, but is clearly not preventing the spread, with this latest variant at least.

As for addressing the structural issues in our health care system, I say that now IS the time. Governments are throwing our money around like candy at the Christmas parade. Let’s at least have a few extra hospital wings and trained staff to show for it. Besides, an aging population, and our high immigration rates are going to demand more medical services in the future. And it’s not like we had excess capacity pre-COVID anyways. Scout motto: “Be Prepared”

#200 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 7:47 am

A week before his preventable death, here’s what #43 Dale Earnhart said about the then newly invented device that would have saved his life.

“I ain’t wearin’ no device invented by some egghead in some Yankee University up north.”

Do Nascar folk vax?

#201 Dogs Not Barking on 01.10.22 at 8:02 am

#200 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 7:47 am
A week before his preventable death, here’s what #43 Dale Earnhart said about the then newly invented device that would have saved his life.

“I ain’t wearin’ no device invented by some egghead in some Yankee University up north.”

Do Nascar folk vax?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Quite possibly the dumbest comment I’ve read yet. Completely devoid of any relevance, but still bursting with politically partisan vile.

Certainly of no use to anyone interested in solving problems rather than creating them.

#202 OK, Doomer on 01.10.22 at 8:14 am

#197 Rosemary Ernst on 01.10.22 at 6:27 am
I am working RN, fully vaccinated- have been firmly in the ‘Get Vax, follow the rules ‘camp.

ENOUGH with the unVaxx’d Demonization.

A little perspective before you start throwing unvaccinated into the street without care-and mandating vaccines.

Multiple credible studies indicate current vaccines no match for this variant.
(Sample
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211223151542.htm)

To those who see unVaxx’d as the root of all pandemic evil-VAXX’d are currently the Omicron target and hence the ones spreading Covid 19, albeit a much different animal than Delta.

AHS Covid data Jan. 6/22:

New cases – 80.92-fully vaccinated. 17.8% unvaccinated.
Alberta fully vaccinated 85.4 %, 89.5 single dose.

Currently hospitalized-52.78 % fully vaccinated (266) , 43.25 % (216) unvaccinated.
ICU numbers -Declined from 95 on Nov. 22/21 to 65 Jan. 5/22
With 80+% new cases fully vaccinated the vaccinated hospitalized will likely continue to increase.
Hospital numbers include ‘incidental Covid’ numbers-increased now with Omicron’s often less severe presentation.

ICU numbers -Declined from 95 on Nov. 22/21 to 65 Jan. 5/22
– DESPITE active reported case numbers surging from 4982 Nov.22/21. to 43,414 Jan. 6/22.
(most estimate new cases currently vastly underreported)

Does not appear that mandating current vaccines will stop Omicron, but it may help break Canadians into warring factions. From what I am seeing in the comments, it already has.

_______________________________

Excellent comment and great synopsis of what is actually going on. Good work!

#203 Brian on 01.10.22 at 8:23 am

In Ontario, in a typical MONTH, we:
Circle for recordAdmit ~93,000 patients to hospital
Circle for recordPerform ~89,000 surgeries/procedures
Circle for recordAdmit ~9,000 patients to ICU
Circle for recordVentilate ~4,500 patients

And we are to believe the 123 unvaccinated currently in ICU w/Covid-19 are a threat to the hospital system?

#204 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.10.22 at 8:52 am

#167 Buford Wilson on 01.09.22 at 10:36 pm
A patient in the USA is a customer.

In Canada he’s an unwanted burden on the system.
———————
In the States, before they remove any diseased organs, they remove your wallet, to check if you’ve got enough money.

#205 Numbers on 01.10.22 at 8:55 am

#195 Diamond Dog

Agreed.

We need more data. We need more information.

We need our governments and organizations that are tasked with gathering that information to release it, to be transparent and truthful. I think more and more people are noticing they have not been, and that is very unfortunate for may reasons. Not for those people, but for the fact that those organizations have lost trust and credibility – and I’m not sure how they can operate effectively going forward.

To have such government organizations clearly act to hide information is quite scary actually. Down south, where the companies responsible for these very important vaccines operate from, OSHA saying they don’t want to gather reporting of adverse reactions seems incredibly irresponsible to me. To see FDA fight to keep vaccine approval information from view for 55 years and go to a Federal court to ensure that happens and this information for vaccine approval and data cannot be seen, when their own internal protocol instruction have clear rules that in these cases of vaccines all the documents should be prepared for immediate public release at the time of review approval process…well, that seem suspiciously crazy to me.

How can people make an informed consent under these circumstnaces?

Then you read something like this…
“Lots of them are chickens, too. They fear the needle and potential adverse consequences and are happy to let 82% of the population take the risk for them. So, free-riders.”

We have seen Garth not this, and he is our host and entirely entitled to his opinion – as he should be!

However, we did it so we will make you? ….becuase you must? I don’t know. Doesn’t seem like something that should even be debated in a democratic free country that Canada claims to be.

And just to illustrate how stupid the policies are, consider the alcohol and weed ban in Quebec. First, remember these places were deemed to be ESSENTIAL! Now remember this: THEY DELIVER!

#206 O, HIP on 01.10.22 at 9:03 am

#16 Hermann Mahler on 01.09.22 at 4:16 pm
The healthcare system in Canada was broken, even before the pandemic started. Being operated and returned to the hospital after 3 days because of a ripped stiches I had to spend 3 days in a hallway before I could get in a room. To compare this system always with the US-system is laughable. How much in taxes per person are we paying for a bloated health care bureaucracy in this country. and then most people think its free healthcare.
We should start looking at European countries and then compare with semi private systems. I’ve had a hospital stay in Berlin and only 2 days to wait, while I had to wait here in Ontario over 6 months after a cancer diagnosis, that made an operation necessary. There is much much work to be done (and money to be spend, but not on bureaucracy). Most political leaders are only interested in re-election and only listen to their old cronies.
This pandemic will pass, and probably most of the electorate will vote for the same useless leaders, because there will be gifts for interest groups to be promised, not “blood and tears”.

—-

It has crossed my mind that this would be a perfect event by American Pharma to undermine Canadian Health Care System and push toward privatization, and those sell-outs that sell us out, aka: Politicians to allow this to start happening.

Why invest any money into it?

Why build real hospitals, when you can build tent ones that never end up being used anyway?

Why make long lasting investments to prepare our health care system for what’s coming soon? 2030 all the boomers will be over 65. They will overload the system.

$400B spent…on what? What do we have to show for it really? This $400B being spent by T2 is like giving a child $400 and expecting any wise outcome except spending it on candy, pop and pizza.

Instead, use this thing to illustrate how bad our system is and how Canada should change to US style privatized Health Care. “Look, no issues with ICU capacity there”.

Yeah…that’s the solution, right?

#207 NFL on 01.10.22 at 9:06 am

NFL proudly announced in yesterday’s broadcast that this regular season featured fully packed stadiums for every regular season game.

Put that in your locked-down-no-beer-store-no-weed-store-no-concerts-no-leaf-tickets-Novak-stuck-in-quarantene-hotel-pipe-and-smoke-it! Fools!

#208 Novax Djocovid on 01.10.22 at 9:16 am

Look! A healthy guy was found innocent, after being presumed guilty and judged without due process.

Look! Politicians will stop at nothing if made to look like fools and exposed with their illogical policies and vindictive communist methods.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/novak-djokovic-australia-covid-19-unvaccinated

#209 IHCTD9 on 01.10.22 at 9:17 am

I’m thinking it won’t be long before the Government will change tactics to “living with the virus” instead of “stopping the virus”. It’s pretty clear at this point that there is no stopping it. Folks won’t line up for 2-3 jabs per year for the rest of their lives unless they have a genuine fear that a good deal of harm will come to them if they don’t. Especially if CV and lockdowns carry on regardless if they been jabbed 17 times or not.

In the end, Covid will persist anyway, while Canada has bought itself a financial and economic quagmire thicker than any we’ve had before. All because of one Man: Justin Trudeau.

I am SO DAMN GLAD I got life on the the go before this numpty was elected. I’m looking at what options I may have to retire early, I’m not paying the bill for these birdbrained dunce-cap sporting Libs.

I look forward to retreating out of Southern Ontario and watching the sinking standard of living creep out of the GTA and spread along the 401 corridor in both directions. A transformation from a Country that once promised an even shot at a good life to all – now turned into a place where only the rich and Old Stock homeowners thrive. All in under 7 years, under a single garbage PM.

#210 George S on 01.10.22 at 9:18 am

After reading through some of the comments (I don’t have time to read them all this morning) I see that quite a few of the commenters have very little understanding of how science works, little understanding of the concept of public service and duty to your country, and finally little understanding of medical insurance systems. And I guess little knowledge of history.
Everyone is saying some percent this, some percent that, vaccine side effects this, side effects that but they aren’t epidemiologists and the people that they are quoting aren’t either. Models of disease progression are always changing and are only to give you an idea of what may happen under certain conditions, there is a wide variation in the projected outcomes.
There are different vaccination rates among different age groups of people. That can really influence the number of unvaccinated people vs vaccinated people you see in the hospital. If you include everyone and say that you have 70% vaccination you may be distorting the true picture because if 95% of the over 60 age group are vaccinated and 50% of the under 30 age group are vaccinated and the unvaccinated over 60 age group make up the largest portion of the people in the ICUs then the unvaccinated are having a much greater effect on the medical system than everyone else.
Some provinces are purposely not reporting the actual numbers of unvaccinated in the ICUs so that people won’t hate them any more than they hate them already.

Can you imagine an invasion type situation where people have so little loyalty to a country that has provided them with such an incredible land of opportunity and the ability to live with an incredible lifestyle that is the envy of everyone else in the world that they won’t even get a simple vaccination because they perceive without any actual evidence that it may cause them a little discomfort or a 1 in a 20 million side effect. People are like a bunch of spoiled little babies and need to smarten up.

#211 CDC on 01.10.22 at 9:26 am

Take a little peek at this. Maybe this is why organizations can’t highlight the reality that 1/2 the population is not in good health, not in good standing in terms of weight, serious health conditions, etc.

They’ve let their health deteriorate and it is politically incorrect to say so. Hence all of us, healthy or not, young and old are forced to be painted with the same brush for this politically correct causes. Saying otherwise unleashes anger like this….and of course the all important hashtag of outrage.

>
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky has tweeted following a backlash over comments she made in a television interview last week.

Walensky was criticised on social media after speaking about Omicron death statistics on ABC talk show Good Morning America on Friday, when she said that the majority of Omicron fatalities had occurred in people who already had other medical conditions at the same time—known as comorbidities.

“The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75 per cent, occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities,” she said. “So really these are people who were unwell to begin with and yes, really encouraging news in the context of Omicron.”

https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-rochelle-walensky-tweets-backlash-comments-omicron-death-comorbidities-1667329

#212 Boogaloo Jim on 01.10.22 at 9:26 am

2022 – For Cowboys Only. More dead money ahead unless you’re nimble.

http://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-easy-money-s-been-made-this-is-a-stock-picker-s-market-1.1705365

#213 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.10.22 at 9:32 am

@#169 Dogs not Barking
“We would all learn a lot.”

+++

I guess receiving a $40,000,000,000.00 cheque for the kids IS a valid argument.

#214 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 9:35 am

#90 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:18 pm
BTW, S&P futures just bounced decisively off 4650. That’s probably the bottom for the time being.
_____________________________________

Ding-ding-ding (open bell) 4640, one minute in.
4635, 30 seconds later

Weathermen….

#215 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.10.22 at 9:35 am

@#150 God

“Careful, Faron. I wouldn’t want you to fall off your high horse and break some more ribs!”

+++

I’m not a believer but that was great advice…

#216 Racing Fan on 01.10.22 at 9:42 am

#200 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 7:47 am
A week before his preventable death, here’s what #43 Dale Earnhart said about the then newly invented device that would have saved his life.

“I ain’t wearin’ no device invented by some egghead in some Yankee University up north.”

Do Nascar folk vax?

—–

Dale may have been known as The Intimidator, but you should call yourself The Discriminator!

Amazing how much dumb stuff you can write in just so few sentences.

As Homer Simpson said, let me give you some edumacation to correct the nonsense you wrote.

Basilar skull fracture deaths started to happen in different series around the death of Dale, including Dale of course. Safety was improving and humanity was learning. We didn’t know that the head could detach from the spine under certain impact conditions due to G-forces in play.

Deal died and NASCAR mandated HANS in the series in about 6 months. That’s an amazing response, and NASCAR was the leader in the field without question.

It was 2 years after that accident that the all knowing all snooty Formula 1 mandated use of HANS device in Formula 1, and it was highly resisted by the way with excuses like “I got a headache after 1 lap”.

NASCAR saw this basilar skull fracture as a clear issue, and acted swiftly, way ahead of other series, which followed few years after.

It should be noted that HANS device does not violate the personal right of choice, and it is an external safety device one wears, much like a seatbelt.

#217 suburban coyote and pup on 01.10.22 at 9:43 am

Stage1dave and Rosemary Ernest ; many thanks for your common sense and well articulated posts!

#218 Racing Fan on 01.10.22 at 9:45 am

#200 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 7:47 am
A week before his preventable death, here’s what #43 Dale Earnhart said about the then newly invented device that would have saved his life.

“I ain’t wearin’ no device invented by some egghead in some Yankee University up north.”

Do Nascar folk vax?

—–

Also, Dale made his choice and lived with it. Or rather, not lived with it.

If that’s not the essence of America, I don’t know what is!

The freedom to make a dumb personal choice is part of what democracy and freedom is all about.

#219 Observer on 01.10.22 at 9:51 am

The other thing to consider when comparing vaxxed versus unvaxxed in hospital is the demographics of both groups. Unvaxxed tend to be younger, whereas vaxxed are older with more comorbidities (vaccines less effective on them), showing once again that vaccines work. One example but this is reported both in Canada and in the US:
“At Bluewater, according to Dr. Haddad, unvaccinated ICU patients often range in age from 40 to 60. The hospital’s vaccinated COVID-19 patients include people undergoing chemotherapy and transplant recipients, he said.”

#220 enthalpy on 01.10.22 at 9:58 am

this is long past the vaxxer vs anti vaxxer narrative.
We spent none of the record deficits on increasing capacities(temporary or not) and other measures that could help deal with this. Total misdirection and mismanagement.

This is endemic. At this point,we need to get back to life and let the chips fall where they will.

#221 millmech on 01.10.22 at 9:59 am

My response was to one poster and not to Garth or anyone else
1) saying that the unvaxxed should not get access to medical treatment
2) saying unvaxxed should not have employment
3) saying unvaxxed should have to pay for their own medical car
4) calling the unvaxxed POS for not getting vaxxed
5) calling for the unvaxxed to not be able to go out and access food
6)calling out to restrict travel and association(already done)
Once you dehumanize a group it is very easy to go down a twisted path and I was using a very graphic and personal example from history to get my point across.

#222 Novax Djocovid on 01.10.22 at 10:01 am

Monday mornings deserve some funny. Betty White and Bob Saget devoted their lives to laughter. Let us laugh!

A few funny scenarios with Novak.

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if Novak makes it to the Australian Open final, and his opponent has to forfeit because of a positive Covid test?

If that happens, I promise you, I’ll have to mop the pee off the floor I’ll laugh so hard.

#223 IHCTD9 on 01.10.22 at 10:05 am

#204 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.10.22 at 8:52 am
#167 Buford Wilson on 01.09.22 at 10:36 pm
A patient in the USA is a customer.

In Canada he’s an unwanted burden on the system.
———————
In the States, before they remove any diseased organs, they remove your wallet, to check if you’ve got enough money.
_____

In Canada, they do that to your kids instead.

#224 Observer on 01.10.22 at 10:08 am

What is wrong with Doug Ford’s daughter Krista? It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall during their holiday gatherings.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/01/doug-ford-daughter-krista-tells-ontario-grow-pair-anti-vax-rant/

#225 Motorcycle Math on 01.10.22 at 10:11 am

Covid? Nope.

Let’s talk Motorcycles.

I think motorcycles should be banned. Mandated off the roads. Not allowed to be ridden, used, insured – PERIOD!

I have good proven data to support this approach. You ride a motorcycle? Well, you shouldn’t be allowed to because you clog the damn hospitals with incredible rate of injuries.

Compared to passenger vehicles, motorcycles had 28 times the number of fatalities as cars per mile driven.

Motorcycle accident fatalities accounted for 14% of all accident fatalities.

59% of those killed were wearing a helmet, which were estimated to give a 37% increased chance of overall survival and reduction in the chance of a head.

Motorcycle deaths more than doubled from the late 1990s to 2008. Despite providing less than 1% of miles driven, they made up 15% of traffic deaths in 2012.

Also, as the old farts want to relive their youth, they’ve proved a danger to themselves on those heavy Harleys they can’t control well. Just look at this.

The number of fatalities of those under 30 has gone from 80% percent in 1975 to 30% in 2014, as fatalities more than doubled.

I say, MANDATE MOTORCYCLES OFF THE ROADS!

I say, No one over 40 should be allowed to ride motorcycles! The old farts are a danger to themselves on these machines.

#226 Canadarm2 on 01.10.22 at 10:26 am

OK, two things;

1) Vaccines are meant to keep you from dying and, if you’re NOT immunocompromised, out of ICU. So, if you are Septupled Vax’d and all you get are the sniffles and headache but can either work through it or just take a day or two resting in your own bed, then, the vaccine has DONE ITS JOB. As Garth likes saying “where did I say to invest in stocks?”, a similar saying “where does it say that a vaccine will make you IMMUNE??”

2) If a hasty calc can be inferred whereby 10,000 are infected in a day, 80% of 6 million are Vax’d and only 113 are in ICU, then the vaccine has DONE ITS JOB. 113…out of 10,000. That’s AMAZEBALLS! Why? Because in Wave 1, it was about 1000/day…DYING, that’s why!

I’m happy that as many people got vax’d as they did and I’m happy the unVax’d don’t have to worry about dying as much as they used to…win-win! Can’t we all just get along? ;) lol

I’m just surprised that the vocal cohorts that hate gov’t intervention in their lives aren’t screaming at the top of their lungs to leave real estate alone! Where’s your outrage at THAT? Something more worthy of your ire, no?

#227 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 10:42 am

We have good friends around our age (50-ish) who retired in October, sold their house in Anchorage, bought an insulated 30′ RV and plan to tool around the US with their three bird dogs for the next several years while deciding where to settle. They’re currently boondocking ​while hunting quail in Arizona (with full wifi plan) and when that season closes in Feb, will ski for a few months, then maybe Baja for a while.

Intriguing. Very freeing to have no commitments and open-ended adventure beckoning. After facetiming with them yesterday, my wife and I looked at each other and said ‘Hmmm…’

#228 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 10:48 am

#214 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 9:35 am
#90 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:18 pm
BTW, S&P futures just bounced decisively off 4650. That’s probably the bottom for the time being.

———–

Ding-ding-ding (open bell) 4640, one minute in.
4635, 30 seconds later

Weathermen….

————

Careful W… unless you want to also share your solar panel company’s impressive plummet since sharing it here last month…

But I do agree that predicting is a dangerous game with no real upside.

#229 Ponzius Pilatus on 01.10.22 at 11:00 am

#163 Numbers on 01.09.22 at 10:26 pm
“280 people in ICU, 137 jabbed and 143 unjabbed.”

Garth, absolutely not arguing for anti-vax group, but as a guy who dives deep into numbers and who seeks clear data, you surely know how important detail is in this data point.

Some random thoughts…

Anti-vax tend to be conservative. Conservative tend to be older people. You know the old saying “If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain”.
———————-
Well,
I’m probably just the exception but that makes me special.
Was a Sozi as a young punk, still a Sozi as an old fart.
And at my last checkup, my Dr. told me that my brain and heart were in excellent shape.
Not like most of the old cons.
Constant complaining and whining is not good for your health, he said.

#230 Not Fooled on 01.10.22 at 11:01 am

#153 Faron on 01.09.22 at 10:04 pm
We need a group math lesson, methinks. – Garth

Pretty sure in the very near future, math will be labelled a “wokeist” discipline and cast aside for something much more manly like… guesstimating. I mean, they teach math in universities, so it must be crap, right?

***************
Faron, you’re showing your age. All the cool kids are already into woke math.

Perhaps a woke lesson on queering math and removing artifical divisions and binaries, a lesson calling binaries “cisheteronormativity” and citing a well-known French pedophile in support, is what the steerage needs..

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-44292-7_11

#231 Dharma Bum on 01.10.22 at 11:02 am

If you require the ICU due to being unvaccinated, then the physician in charge must vaccinate that individual before their release. No questions asked.

Also, #3 Wrk.dover – “Next time you have the nozzle of the gas pump in your hand, picture that going down your throat for a month.”

This is no time to be arousing Ponzi!

#232 Brian on 01.10.22 at 11:03 am

There is no evidence so far that vaccines are reducing infections from the fast-spreading variant.

From the Wallstreet Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-makes-bidens-vaccine-mandates-obsolete-covid-healthcare-osha-evidence-supreme-court-11641760009?st=ojqhifz10wfaouh&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

The vaccines are intended to mitigate sickness and forestall death. – Garth

#233 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.10.22 at 11:06 am

@#227 Sail Away
” Very freeing to have no commitments and open-ended adventure beckoning. After facetiming with them yesterday, my wife and I looked at each other and said ‘Hmmm…’”

+++

Another FIRE candidate?
:)

#234 Russ on 01.10.22 at 11:07 am

Motorcycle Math on 01.10.22 at 10:11 am

Covid? Nope.

Let’s talk Motorcycles.

I think motorcycles should be banned. Mandated off the roads. Not allowed to be ridden, used, insured – PERIOD!

I have good proven data to support this approach. You ride a motorcycle?

**Well, you shouldn’t be allowed to because you clog the damn hospitals…**

Compared to passenger vehicles, motorcycles had 28 times the number of fatalities as cars per mile driven.

Motorcycle accident fatalities accounted for 14% of all accident fatalities…

====================================================

Hey MM,

Nice troll attempt. Are you rigging a gang troll or single flasher set-up? :)

Anyhow, you need to change tacks on this one. Your point has no merit, to wit, fatalities do not clog up the hospitals.

However, aged fat people do clog up the hospitals. Try that one.
Happy to help out.

Cheers, R

#235 the Jaguar on 01.10.22 at 11:13 am

Front page, NP. What idiot decided this was a good idea? Once again (similar to the Meng/Huawei) we will be used as a pawn in US ambitions. On a scale of stupid this one is beyond the pale.

“Amid mounting tensions with Russia over Ukraine, Canada is making plans to build an ammunition factory in the latter country with help from a number of Ontario-based companies.”

#236 the Jaguar on 01.10.22 at 11:29 am

@#227 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 10:42 am
Like the movie ‘Nomad’, but with more $$

Sometimes the things we own really ‘own us’.
I admire what your friends are doing. A reduced footprint can never be the wrong decision.

#237 Slim on 01.10.22 at 11:32 am

#225 Motorcycle Math

By far most motorcycle accidents are caused by idiots behind the wheel of a vehicle not paying attention. How many times have we heard the excuse, “I didn’t see it.”

#238 FriedEggs on 01.10.22 at 11:35 am

Now that the Judge ORDERED Pfizer to releases more of their documents/data in the next few months – not DECADES – we shall more info. The devil is in the details.

Normal people scary me.

#239 KLNR on 01.10.22 at 11:53 am

@#86 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:05 pm
#45 Nonplused on 01.09.22 at 5:24 pm

OMG bud. That stalin, hitler, mao, kim comment. *chef’s kiss*. Perhaps reviewing communism, socialism and fascism would be useful for you? Nevermind, you are triple vaxxed against factual or reputable information. Keep on keepin’ on.

Wow, this comments section is a real hell hole sometimes. Where to you get these poeple, garth?

this comments section is a real hell hole all the time.
that’s what makes it such a good laugh.
the antivax crowd on here isn’t funny though, just sad.

You should see what I ghosted. – Garth

#240 DonM on 01.10.22 at 11:56 am

“In Ontario the vax rate is 82.9% for one-dosers and 77.3% for the doubles. As of this weekend there were 280 people in ICU, 137 jabbed and 143 unjabbed. The anti-vaxers look at that and cry, “Ah-hah, so the stuff doesn’t work.” Of course, the stats mean 49% of ICU admissions came from 82% of the population. More than that (51%) came from just 18%. It‘s overwhelming evidence inoculation may not prevent you from becoming infected (letting your guard down) but it’s defence against having a vent tube stuck down your throat and clinging to life.”

Vaxxers gripping at whatever excuses they can in order to not accept the fact that vaccines do not work as advertised a year ago. How about this one…..95% of the population, vaxxed or unvaxxed, will never get Covid. And when they do it is a 99.7% survival rate.

These mandates do nothing positive for the economy other than devastate many businesses, curtail proper education for all ages, cause addiction, physical and mental health issues, all for the sake of saving those already on their death bed or already lived a complete life. It is unfair to penalize the young and healthy for not wanting to take an experimental drug with ZERO long-term data.

I am pro-vax and am up-to-date on all except for Covid which I will get after a few years history of the covid vaccines. I should not be penalized for that. Just like the obese are not even though they consume far more healthcare than Covid ever will.

Try and force me to get the vax. The first thing I will do, along with many other people, is give up my citizenship and move to greener pastures which there are many.

It is sad what this country has turned into.

Free-rider. Mandates are likely coming. So, move. – Garth

#241 Brett in Calgary on 01.10.22 at 11:57 am

Bang-on Rosemary. Omicron is dodging the vaccine, this is a very poor time to be enforcing vaccination.
——————————————————–
#197 Rosemary Ernst on 01.10.22 at 6:27 am
I am working RN, fully vaccinated- have been firmly in the ‘Get Vax, follow the rules ‘camp.

ENOUGH with the unVaxx’d Demonization.

It continues surprise that people think being vaxed means they’ll not be infected, if exposed to the virus. Evidence seems legion that the shot prevents a serious outcome, like hospitalization or death. If the population were unprotected, our situation would like be far more dire. – Garth

#242 KLNR on 01.10.22 at 11:58 am

@!#227 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 10:42 am
We have good friends around our age (50-ish) who retired in October, sold their house in Anchorage, bought an insulated 30′ RV and plan to tool around the US with their three bird dogs for the next several years while deciding where to settle. They’re currently boondocking ​while hunting quail in Arizona (with full wifi plan) and when that season closes in Feb, will ski for a few months, then maybe Baja for a while.

Intriguing. Very freeing to have no commitments and open-ended adventure beckoning. After facetiming with them yesterday, my wife and I looked at each other and said ‘Hmmm…’

Intriguing indeed.
go for it.

https://mymodernmet.com/gunther-christine-holtorf-otto-world-road-trip/

#243 Michael in-north-york on 01.10.22 at 12:16 pm

#146 Another Deckchair on 01.09.22 at 9:41 pm
(PS: Yes, I am Vaxed, and have the booster and think anti-vaxers should go to some other planet.)
===

Why don’t you go to another planet. This one isn’t good enough for you. You deserve better.

#244 Michael in-north-york on 01.10.22 at 12:20 pm

7M unvaxxed. Plus, say 3M of those who vaxxed voluntarily, but hate the government telling them what to do.

Not enough of a voting block? We will see about that.

#245 Stoph on 01.10.22 at 12:21 pm

Another consideration when comparing Covid stats is that unvaxxed people have been excluded for much of social activity: going to restaurants, concerts, gatherings and even certain employment – all possible sources of Covid exposure. So when comparing infection rates of vaxxed vs unvaxxed people, vaccination status is not the only (or perhaps most significant) difference.

Thus you can’t just look at the infection rate of vaxxed vs unvaxxed people to determine the effectiveness of the vaccines against getting sick from current strains.

#246 Barb on 01.10.22 at 12:28 pm

#226 Canadarm2
“…just surprised that the vocal cohorts that hate gov’t intervention in their lives aren’t screaming at the top of their lungs to leave real estate alone! Where’s your outrage at THAT? Something more worthy of your ire, no?”

———————-
Excellent point!

#247 DonM on 01.10.22 at 12:29 pm

In Ontario, in a typical MONTH, we:
⏺️Admit ~93,000 patients to hospital
⏺️Perform ~89,000 surgeries/procedures
⏺️Admit ~9,000 patients to ICU
⏺️Ventilate ~4,500 patients

And we are to believe the 123 unvaccinated currently in ICU w/Covid-19 are a threat to the hospital system?

rubiconcapital

Surgeries have been largely ended. Stop trying to rewrite reality. – Garth

#248 Brett in Calgary on 01.10.22 at 12:45 pm

#241 Brett in Calgary on 01.10.22 at 11:57 am
Bang-on Rosemary. Omicron is dodging the vaccine, this is a very poor time to be enforcing vaccination.
——————————————————–
#197 Rosemary Ernst on 01.10.22 at 6:27 am
I am working RN, fully vaccinated- have been firmly in the ‘Get Vax, follow the rules ‘camp.

ENOUGH with the unVaxx’d Demonization.

It continues surprise that people think being vaxed means they’ll not be infected, if exposed to the virus. Evidence seems legion that the shot prevents a serious outcome, like hospitalization or death. If the population were unprotected, our situation would like be far more dire. – Garth
————————————————————
Yes, with Delta and prior variants it has prevented serious illness in high-risk groups, no argument there. However, that trend is breaking down with Omicron, but thankfully this variant appears to be milder.

I got vaccinated in spring 2021 because I felt it was the right choice at the time, and I would still recommend getting vaccinated, however I feel that demonizing ‘anti vaxxers’ is a bad idea.

#249 KLNR on 01.10.22 at 12:53 pm

@#237 Slim on 01.10.22 at 11:32 am
#225 Motorcycle Math

By far most motorcycle accidents are caused by idiots behind the wheel of a vehicle not paying attention. How many times have we heard the excuse, “I didn’t see it.”

didn’t see it cause it was doing 200km/h in a 50km/h zone

#250 dragonfly58 on 01.10.22 at 1:05 pm

Canada’s population has roughly doubled since 1960. 18 million in 1960 vs around 38 million today. So a substantial but hardly huge increase. Why is our infrastructure so needy ? And our housing stock.

#251 Rant-o-matic on 01.10.22 at 1:08 pm

#232 Brian on 01.10.22 at 11:03 am
There is no evidence so far that vaccines are reducing infections from the fast-spreading variant.

From the Wallstreet Journal:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-makes-bidens-vaccine-mandates-obsolete-covid-healthcare-osha-evidence-supreme-court-11641760009?st=ojqhifz10wfaouh&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

The vaccines are intended to mitigate sickness and forestall death. – Garth

Based on stats it would appear that 99.6% of infected recover fully.

This is based only on death and test reported cases, which through past data were likely to be 7x higher than reported cases, as New York State and New York City data showed us.

That New York data of immunity in the general population being 7x the tested/confirmed cases at the time also would seem to point that for every single cases captured with testing, there are 7 cases that are so mild, many don’t even know they had it, or have mild cold symptoms.

Therefore – maybe the numbers lie and maybe this isn’t as deadly as we would think.

A smoker continues to smoke knowing it’s not good for them and that it has serious health effects. Their approach? I’ll take my chances!

An obese person continues to eat unhealthy levels of unhealthy foods, knowing it’s not good for them and that it has serious health effects. Their approach? I’ll take my chances!

A motorcycle rider continues to ride, knowing the risks and odds. Their approach? I’ll take my chances!

An unvaccinated person evaluates the data and information, decides to take a pass. Their approach? I’ll take my chances!

In each cases they’ve made a decision. One would hope it is an informed decision, but if it isn’t – it is their decision. Our society accepts all of these, but one apparently.

A person chooses to vaccinate themselves, based on whatever information is available to them just as obove people have done. Unvaccinated think they are crazy to do so. Just like vaccinated think unvaxed are crazy NOT to get vaccinated. However, the vaccinated made a decision. One would hope it is an informed decision, but if it isn’t – it is their decision!

In all of these examples, everyone but one group has the freedom of choice. Isn’t that interesting?

I still don’t understand this craziness myself. We allow all this behaviour in our society in the name of freedom. We allow people to smoke, drink alcohol, take recreational drugs, risky sexual behaviour, abort babies, ride motorcycles, drive cars – and all of these behaviours are good for Health Care business, right?

And now we have a vaccine that apparently protects those who take it, and most have taken it, well into the 90% of groups range. And yet those who took it, don’t feel safe from the few remaining unvaccinated? They blame the unvaxed for everything, even though it is the vaccinated that bring variants across boarders and continents, spread variants to other vaccinated people, have super spreader events in arenas and concerts and apparently those cesspools that are indoor dining restaurants and those gyms – oh those gyms are such an epicentre of unhealthiness.

Aren’t we just a little concerned about how determined the vaccinated are to inject the unvaccinated against their will with this thing? Is there any wonder that this stick approach doesn’t resonate with some?

I sometimes wonder if the tide is turning on even the vaccinated from the comments I read? If I was told to take a guess, I’d say 25% of the vaccinated are starting to decline the booster and have questions. Mutiny among the ranks of the vaccinated now perhaps is happening, as they point fingers at those who refuse the booster maybe and clump them into the unvaxed column?

Who knows?

What is without doubt is that we’re 2 years into this, I don’t think we’re better off at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I don’t think we’ve learned anything. I don’t think we have the answers and clarity we seek. I don’t think our leaders have done anything to earn it. Never before has the sheeple name seemed so obvious to me.

…and I understand those who don’t want to go along with it all. I understand those who are all sheepled-out.

#252 H on 01.10.22 at 1:11 pm

Surgeries have been largely ended. Stop trying to rewrite reality. – Garth

UNNECESARILY.

Using those in need of treatment and surgery as some kind of negotiation and pressure tactics. Some kind of excuse. Some kind of illustration of how serious things are. While we watch packed NFL stadiums all across the US weekend after weekend.

A tactic that is criminal in my view.

Just like outbreaks in Long Term Care homes are criminal at this point.

When ICUs are busy with virus patients there is less room for surgery recoveries, and fewer staff to care for them. Surely you can grasp that. — Garth

#253 fishman on 01.10.22 at 1:28 pm

This is getting off to a bad morning. The Garth just told me that countries will fine & stop people from shopping so that they will get vaxed. Worse, Motorcycle Math says old fat guys should be banned from buying motorcycles. Soon as the snow goes I’m booked to pick up the Christmas present to myself. A customized hot rod Harley with impeccable 81st. Transport Division providence.

I stated no such thing, but reported what other jurisdictions are doing. Be accurate. – Garth

#254 Man Dates on 01.10.22 at 1:28 pm

Mandates are likely coming. So, move. – Garth

Man Dates?

What a crazy language English is.

Mandates carpet shenanigans bodacious bamboozle portmanteau. Know what I mean?

#255 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 1:55 pm

Reminder to all US citizens to file your FBARs. Easy to do, and peace of mind. It’s all e-file now.

In my experience, about 80% of dual citizens are also inveterate non-filers… or put another way: criminals under US law. Who would want that looming over their future? Plus, the US intermittently sends $ to its taxpayers.

#256 Shawn on 01.10.22 at 2:09 pm

Russian Roulette?

DonM says:

How about this one…..95% of the population, vaxxed or unvaxxed, will never get Covid. And when they do it is a 99.7% survival rate.

**************
Same people who scoff at a mere 3 in a thousand chance of dying buy lottery tickets with 1 in 13.8 million chance of winning.

And beyond that 3 in a thousand you say 5% will get it and may clog hospitals and may have serious outcome adn more likely to spread to other fool family members so they too can play Russian Roulette.

Besides which that 5% thing is way old. Arn’t we looking at more like one in three infected in teh U.S. by the time this ends.

U.S. has 61 million cases known or 18% of population already and 859,000 dead,. Sorry to bring actual and unwelcome facts up.

darwinism…

#257 enthalpy on 01.10.22 at 2:35 pm

Canadarm2

vac·cine
/vakˈsēn/

noun
a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

#258 Stoph on 01.10.22 at 2:50 pm

My last post was a bit convoluted to read. So I’ll repeat myself in a simpler way.

In some regions infection rates for vaxxed vs unvaxxed (on a population basis) are pretty close to each other, thus leading some people to say that vaccines don’t work. This thinking however ignores that unvaxxed people have been excluded from lots of social activity such as eating out or even going to work – ie. forced social distancing. Thus it’s possible (there may be other explanations) that if the infection rates for vaxxed vs. unvaxxed are about the same, that the protection offered by the forced social distancing is about the same as that offered by the vaccine.

Infection rates by vaccine status are unknown to me. Link. – Garth

#259 Observer on 01.10.22 at 2:51 pm

“As a society, we have made a decision to allocate resources disproportionately to this group of Canadians at the expense of other Canadians,” CMA president Dr. Katherine Smart said.

Time to put limits on how much we will sacrifice for those who choose not to be vaccinated.

#260 Shawn on 01.10.22 at 2:54 pm

Must the anti-vaxers lie?

Rantomatic said the following false thing just above:

Based on stats it would appear that 99.6% of infected recover fully.

**********************

World-o-meter actual facts say 859,000 Americans died of Covid out of 61 million known infected.

That’s 1.4% DEAD as opposed to your 0.4% who did not fully recover. How many with long-term impacts? no one knows.

And yes maybe in reality many more got covid and not reported. But I am giving actual known facts.

The 0.4% sounds like a complete and dangerous lie.

Hey but you makes your choice and takes your chances with your life and those you may spread a bad case to and those you may impact when you clog the hospital. All good right?

And what do actual experts know compared to you rant man? Nothing right?

#261 SunShowers on 01.10.22 at 2:55 pm

“The Yanks have private medicine, allowing those who wish to buy services the ability to do so.”

This is a very unfair characterization, Garth.
Most people who go without healthcare in the US do not do so because they don’t WANT healthcare, but because they can’t AFFORD it.

It was a statement of fact, not a characterization. Stop viewing everything in life through your socialist filter. – Garth

#262 AccidentalAmerican on 01.10.22 at 3:02 pm

#255 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 1:55 pm
“Reminder to all US citizens to file your FBARs. Easy to do, and peace of mind. It’s all e-file now.”

There are thousands of Canadians such as myself who happen to have been born in the USA, but never lived there as adults, have Canadian only parents, and identify only as Canadian. Most of them do not file US tax returns or FBARS and never have. To start doing so opens up a big can of worms and expense which well outweighs any gains.

#263 Diamond Dog on 01.10.22 at 3:04 pm

#205 Numbers on 01.10.22 at 8:55 am

Omicron didn’t have a name in mid November. Here’s Scott Gottlieb on November 15th, oblivious of what’s coming with Omicron, saying it’s hard to picture something more contagious than Delta and seeing a future of Delta becoming comparable to the flu after this winter (then came Omicron):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvY3ssiQ_6E

Point is, we can give the govy’s a bit of slack on this. I doubt that many experts saw contagious Omicron coming. We can talk about lack of preparation and communication, but we are more prepared than we think.

https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html

77.2% of the population is fully vaccinated. If we filter out the age under 18 crowd, this number is much higher (likely the 90’s) and we can as Canadians be proud of this. (See bottom chart above) Point is, most Canadians get the need to vaccinate and wear masks.

As for communication, politics unfortunately comes into messaging. It has always been since the existence of government, a tug of war debate between defending the status quo and the case for change. Such debates are not without friction and can be quite unhealthy at times, but they are necessary.

Vaccinate vs unvaccinate, there shouldn’t be a need for debate over this as science and stats are clearly on the side of vaccines. Stats clearly indicate the need for mass vaccination (imagine where ICU’s would be if we didn’t) and most people get it as indicated in the link above, just as most get the need to wear a mask.

But, it’s still a democracy and we need to hear others out. Debate is not without friction, but it can be quite healthy (if it’s done right) at the end of the day.

Sometimes concerns are raised that are quite legitimate such as safety and efficacy of vaccines, need for masks, even concerns that are indirectly related to pandemics like this one such as putting Vit D in the food supply for example or the use of zinc and zinc ionophore supplements as common therapy with all class 4 virus’s.

At the end of the day, it comes down to who pays for it and by how much. This is always up to debate. Thus, we need accurate data for this information and always will. For what it’s worth, in the age of the internet and economic integration etc., there is a great deal more co-ordination going on than we think. It’s sometimes obscured with the political noise associated with the always ongoing debate between status quo and case for change, but it’s still there.

#264 Justin on 01.10.22 at 3:13 pm

#254 Man Dates on 01.10.22 at 1:28 pm
Mandates are likely coming. So, move. – Garth

Man Dates?

What a crazy language English is.

Mandates carpet shenanigans bodacious bamboozle portmanteau. Know what I mean?
______________________________________

Mark my words; there will be no mandates.
The correct term is “people-dates” – Justin

#265 kc on 01.10.22 at 3:36 pm

187 AB on 01.10.22 at 12:14 am

Anti-vaxxers are of no particular religious or political stripe. The common factor seems to be that they are stupid. Kind of like the folks in the old Wild West who were first in line to buy sugar water from the Snake oil salesman. All I know is that I am sick of this wicked covid for two years now. I think it’s time to put things in perspective and stop all these ridiculous border restrictions like PCR tests to get home to Canada. Covid is all over the world. At least help our poor tourist industries get going again . And stop the political theatric’s which are pandering to the pearl clutchers. Enough already. Life in this world is not forever.

**********

Why you would call a person who refuses to get the “CV jab” an anti vaxxer might not be in proper terms. For myself, I support all vaccinations, IE: polio, measels, etc … however, this CV shot doesn’t mean I (we) are stupid. Maybe we are very informed about what this particular technology can do. You are aware that even Dr. Malone became an outcast from his scientific society? There are no debates on any of this topics, nor are there Doctors who can publicly speak against the “covid scare”.

If it goes against the “official narrative” it gets erased. Doesn’t this just seem a bit communist to you?

193 stage1dave on 01.10.22 at 1:17 am

Best thing I have read in a while… CHEERS

210 George S on 01.10.22 at 9:18 am

When the doctor who invented the MRNA technology gets silenced from the medical journals, and is not allowed to speak, don’t you think maybe something isn’t right in Denmark?

251 Rant-o-matic on 01.10.22 at 1:08 pm

well said.

189 Jon B on 01.10.22 at 12:17 am

“You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that’s clear, I will choose Freewill” NP.

*********

Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There’s something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you. NP

cheers

#266 Faron on 01.10.22 at 3:40 pm

#228 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 10:48 am
#214 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 9:35 am
#90 Faron on 01.09.22 at 7:18 pm

Don’t worry, I logged on to call myself out. Been laughing at myself all day for that one. Unlike some who hope people don’t notice losses, I own up to mine. For credibility’s sake. Some don’t because “what fun would that be?”

I don’t trade futures and am green on the day in the $ I directly manage. So…

#267 Zak on 01.10.22 at 3:43 pm

Garth caught the woke-mind-virus.

Not racist, not an anti-vaxxer, BUT I am pro-choice.

Mad Max gets my vote from this point on as he’s the only candidate openly opposing mandates.

#268 IHCTD9 on 01.10.22 at 3:43 pm

-24 tonight. First cold one of the year, at least around here. Been a pretty easy winter so far, 1 driveway shovel, couple nights colder than -10, that’s about it.

#269 All lies and manipulated u decide on 01.10.22 at 3:58 pm

#24 Dogman01 on 01.09.22 at 4:24 pm
=======================
Good one! Full on Nany state and worse.

#270 IHCTD9 on 01.10.22 at 4:02 pm

RIP Mr. H

https://financialpost.com/transportation/autos/frank-hasenfratz-who-started-a-canadian-manufacturing-powerhouse-in-his-basement-dies-at-age-86

#271 bdwy on 01.10.22 at 4:02 pm

World-o-meter actual facts say 859,000 Americans died of Covid out of 61 million known infected.

That’s 1.4% DEAD as opposed to your 0.4% who did not fully recover.

—————————–
wapo….
When a man in the crowd of her Iowa campaign stop told Sen. Joni Ernst (R) on Monday that he believed the number of U.S. coronavirus deaths had been overcounted, Ernst replied that she too was “so skeptical.”

“These health-care providers and others are reimbursed at a higher rate if covid is tied to it, so what do you think they’re doing?”
Ernst’s comments echo conspiracy theories pushed by QAnon followers that have been debunked by doctors and public health experts.
——————————
CDC admits the 859k is a lie?

Asked “how many of the 836,000 deaths in the U.S. linked to Covid are FROM Covid or how many are WITH Covid,” CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky says “those data will be forthcoming.”

#272 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 4:05 pm

#262 AccidentalAmerican on 01.10.22 at 3:02 pm
#255 Sail Away on 01.10.22 at 1:55 pm

“Reminder to all US citizens to file your FBARs. Easy to do, and peace of mind. It’s all e-file now.”

——-

There are thousands of Canadians such as myself who happen to have been born in the USA, but never lived there as adults, have Canadian only parents, and identify only as Canadian. Most of them do not file US tax returns or FBARS and never have. To start doing so opens up a big can of worms and expense which well outweighs any gains.

——-

Hey, live your life the way you want, but US citizenship is a huge advantage. Some financial benefits to being a dual citizen in good standing, include, but are not limited to:

1. Registered IRA, Roth IRA, pension and 529 Education Plan accounts in the US
2. Registered RRSP, TFSA, pension and RESP accounts in Canada
3. Social security from US gov’t
4. CPP plus OAS from Canadian gov’t
5. Access to US Government Series I savings bonds, currently paying 7.12%
6. Much, much, much less expensive and more varied real estate

#273 Jeff on 01.10.22 at 4:05 pm

I have a 7yo who has not been vaccinated. He contracted Covid 2 weeks ago and recovered easily, as expected. Tell me why I should get him vaccinated now that he has natural immunity? (btw, entire family is vaccinated, save for him)

#274 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 4:09 pm

216 Racing Fan on 01.10.22 at 9:42 am
#200 Wrk.dover on 01.10.22 at 7:47 am
A week before his preventable death, here’s what #43 Dale Earnhart said about the then newly invented device that would have saved his life.

“I ain’t wearin’ no device invented by some egghead in some Yankee University up north.”

Do Nascar folk vax?

—–

Dale may have been known as The Intimidator, but you should call yourself The Discriminator!

Amazing how much dumb stuff you can write in just so few sentences.
______________________________

I didn’t put the words in his mouth

#275 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.10.22 at 4:10 pm

@#261 Sunshowers
“Most people who go without healthcare in the US do not do so because they don’t WANT healthcare, but because they can’t AFFORD it.’

++++

On the flip side of that same coin
Most Canadians that can’t get TIMELY healthcare for a bd back, a bad heart or cancer.
If they CAN AFFORD IT.
The go to the US.

Why not bring that money back to Canada, reduce the line ups and allow a public /private healthcare system.

Seems to work elsewhere.
God forbid we keep protecting those govt bureaucrats that push paper back and forth for 100’s of thousand per year….

I see Penny Ballem has resurfaced from her very generous City of Vancouver severance package to be a talking head for the BC Health Authority.
.

#276 Diamond Dog on 01.10.22 at 4:14 pm

As I read these comments, a common theme is repeated over and over. “Covid19 doesn’t seem to be that serious”.

Let’s go over what we know or should know. Back in March 9th of this year, the Red cross released data on a broad based search for antibodies in their most recent blood samples. They found antibodies in 20.3% of their blood. On the day of the release, according to worldometer, 10% of the U.S. population had been infected. Comparing these 2 numbers gives us an approximate 1:1 ratio of confirmed cases vs asymptomatic or 50/50.

This 50/50 ratio is consistent with reporting across Europe in France, Spain, Italy, the U.K., basically all of Europe. This was Delta and earlier variants. So, one might ask, how many were hospitalized so far up to March 9th? Good question!

The CDC estimates 7.5 million Americans up to the end of September since the pandemic began. This gives us a number to go by, likely 5.5 million or slightly more up to March 9th. Lets go with 5.5 million.

Let’s summarize. As of March 9th, 33 million Americans tested positive with Covid19 and according to Red cross numbers and world data, another 34 million were asymptomatic. Of those exposed to the virus, an estimated 5.5 million out of 67 million ended up in the hospital. Of those testing positive, 5.5 to 6 million estimated out of 33 million confirmed positive ended up hospitalized with at that time, a personal ball park guess estimate 700k dead. This ratio, say 6/33 hospitalized vs symptomatic or 1 to 5.5 is consistent with early Wuhan numbers.

Let’s remind, of those hospitalized, these were not slight cases of the cold. The majority of them were in fact, cases of pneumonia.

Pneumonia as most know, weakens your immune system for years to come. Scarring of the lungs is normal leading to compromised breathing, often for life. People that get Pneumonia are more prone to getting it again. It makes you less fertile, more fatigued, there are degrees of it but point is, what they say about “long covid” symptoms (50% were still experiencing symptoms after 6 months) correlate well with people that have had ARDS or pneumonia.

So yes, it’s serious. These numbers flesh it out. Yes, governments the world over had to step in and deal with this as best they could. A pandemic like this has the potential to chop away at the health of the general population and thus, lower productivity and long term economics.

CDC estimated 7.5 million hospitalized since the pandemic began in the U.S. as of late September, imagine 5 million annualized over 5 years or 25 million hospitalized, the majority of them experiencing pneumonia and/or death and then we see the seriousness of the numbers related to this pandemic. We need to put it over longer timescales to really see it.

So, I will repeat myself. There is a very real need to vaccinate against Omicron and future variants. The numbers tell us to take this seriously. I await data of direct comparisons of Omicron vs Delta with the unvaccinated as this offers just another twist in the long, long running conflict between nature and man.

#277 Stoph on 01.10.22 at 4:26 pm

#258 Stoph on 01.10.22 at 2:50 pm
My last post was a bit convoluted to read. So I’ll repeat myself in a simpler way.

In some regions infection rates for vaxxed vs unvaxxed (on a population basis) are pretty close to each other, thus leading some people to say that vaccines don’t work. This thinking however ignores that unvaxxed people have been excluded from lots of social activity such as eating out or even going to work – ie. forced social distancing. Thus it’s possible (there may be other explanations) that if the infection rates for vaxxed vs. unvaxxed are about the same, that the protection offered by the forced social distancing is about the same as that offered by the vaccine.

Infection rates by vaccine status are unknown to me. Link. – Garth

—————————————————-

Figure 10 shows that the Covid case rate for vaxxed and unvaxxed per 100k people in Alberta is currently about the same since late December.

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes

Hospitalization and ICU case rates comparing vaxxed and unvaxxed are another story…

#278 Stoph on 01.10.22 at 4:38 pm

#277 Stoph on 01.10.22 at 4:26 pm
#258 Stoph on 01.10.22 at 2:50 pm

Infection rates by vaccine status are unknown to me. Link. – Garth

—————————————————-

Figure 10 shows that the Covid case rate for vaxxed and unvaxxed per 100k people in Alberta is currently about the same since late December.

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes

Hospitalization and ICU case rates comparing vaxxed and unvaxxed are another story…

————————————————————

The chart actually shows an interesting trend that partially vaccinated people have the lowest case rate in Alberta. I can’t conclusively say why, but it’s possible that it’s because they have the partial benefit of the vaccine, but still can’t fully participate in society (ie. they are social distancing) unless they get a negative covid test (these are Alberta stats).

#279 HUNGRY BEAR on 01.10.22 at 4:43 pm

“Mandates are likely coming. So, move. – Garth”

And quick I hope. Kids must be vaxed before they enter school….its MANDATORY.

So whats the problem with these sissy adults?

#280 Tony P on 01.11.22 at 7:15 pm

To be fair, only the government owned alcohol stores need proof of vaccination. Those stores, SAQ, sell mainly wine and liquors. Beer in Quebec is bought in any grocery store. So the anti-vax can still get their wildcat.