WFH forever?

It stretches for an unlikely 30 km beneath the city streets. On a normal day, 200,000 people are down there. That’s equivalent to everyone in Regina ducking underground. Or all of Moncton, plus Sudbury, at the same time.

The Path, snaking under downtown Toronto, contains 3.7 million feet of leasable retail space. In February of 2020 it was home yo 1.200 restaurants and shops. Five thousand people worked there and together they generated $1.7 billion in sales.

But no more. When I walked through the network on the weekend there were more security guards than shoppers. There are, literally, kilometers of empty stores, plus signs saying “Exciting retail opportunity!” where shops, services and eateries once stood. Food courts are abandoned, save for one or two brave franchises eking out survival. Their few customers have the pick of several hundred seats.

This is the legacy not so much of Covid, but what the virus wrought. It’s evil, economy-killing spawn – WFH.

The office vacancy rate in the GTA in early 2020 was 2%. At the moment it’s 13.7%. That’s a devastating number, worse than Vancouver (now at 7%) but far better than poor Calgary (33%). Across Canada, 16% of commercial space is currently vacant. Not empty – the desks, chairs, printers, glass partitions, board rooms, coffee mugs and computer monitors are still sitting there – just vacant.

In late March of last year I scoffed when Scotia Plaza, the 68-storey tower at King & Bay where I have a palatial corner office, closed, “until the end of April.” Harrumph, I said to Dorothy. What a buncha pansies. Talk about overreacting!

Well, the building isn’t closed any more, but occupancy is less than 15%. Employees drift in occasionally. I have yet to see a guy in a tie. The streetcars outside rumble by without a sense of urgency. There’s no rush hour on the sidewalk – where it used to be impossible to walk against the southerly current at 5 pm.

Realtors swear things are changing, Leasing rates have started to inch higher as demand slowly builds. Millions of feet of new space is still being created – like at CIBC’s dramatic head office rising atop the rail lands. Condo sales have been stronger than those of single-family homes, and per-foot prices have jumped in the last hundred days. Some of that demand is apparently coming from people who fled to the hinterland and bought houses during Covid, who now need a pied-a-terre since their offices are reopening – at least partially.

But still gone are the renters. The restaurant and hospitality workers. The newcomers to the city. And a mess of students.

At the heart of a many things – from the value of REITs to the coming tsunami of local and federal taxes to the nation’s GDP – is whether or not Work from Home stays or ends. In Toronto (and most other urban core areas) the crash in economic activity as commuters stay home and buildings lie fallow is palpable. With Delta and the 4th Wave, planned repopulations of workplaces have been put on hold until early 2022.

More consequential, given human nature, is the fact millions of people have absorbed WFH as routine. The norm. They can’t visualize putting on a suit and commuting for 100 minutes a day, then having to cram all the personal stuff into weekends.

In 2016 just 4% of Canadians worked remotely. Now it’s still over 30%. A StatsCan survey found a staggering 80% of people would like to stay at home at least half the time. Almost four in ten swear if they’re forced to trundle back into the office that they’ll seek other employment. The biggest advocates of WFH remain women and people under 35. Seven in ten think companies not offering WFH will have a hard time finding talent. A third would give up wages in return for not returning to the salt mine.

So, see what I mean? Covid’s unleashed a torrent of angst. Now economists and commercial leasing guys alike worry if even 15% of the workforce stays at home. The economic consequences could be legion.

So, are you ever going back?

The survey has now closed. Results in tomorrow’s blog posting.

About the picture: “Meet Coco and Pip! Two GSD that love to do anything that I am doing and in turn, I love to do anything that they want to do (well, almost),” writes Aimee, in Guelph. “Our day starts with an off leash walk somewhere as the sun is rising. They love going to the gas station and receiving treats from the lovely attendants, they love the mailman and playing tennis. Pip loves Timbits; Coco has a more refined pallet and prefers “puppiccinos” from Starbucks! At the cottage they love beach walks. Their hidden talent is herding sheep at the farm… it is amazing to work with them.  As you once said, no dog, no joy…that is so true.”

190 comments ↓

#1 Don Guillermo on 10.04.21 at 3:59 pm

#156 Shawn Allen on 10.04.21 at 1:39 pm
$100 Oil is here

West Texas Intermediate (WTI)_ oil just popped over $100 Canadian for the first time sine probably 2015.

Do no write-off Alberta just yet.

In fact, move to Alberta if you are looking for a change and opportunity. Do it now. This afternoon
*************************************
Let’s not forget our wonderful fellow Canadians that were giggling and laughing at Alberta while joking about who would turn out the lights in April/May of 2020. I know I won’t. Ever.

#2 Matt on 10.04.21 at 4:06 pm

Don’t forget to vote! It’s far more important than that federal election we just had.

#3 SunShowers on 10.04.21 at 4:06 pm

The logical inverse of “people working from home should be paid less” is “we should have been paying people for their commutes this whole time, but haven’t been.”

I would absolutely take a pay raise in order to continue coming in to the office (sadly WFH was not an option for me), and I would be happy to discuss accommodative arrangements for the back pay I am owed for several years of commuting.

#4 Underwriting on 10.04.21 at 4:06 pm

Finding it hard to complete the survey. I never stopped working from the hospital…so I cannot speak to all of the questions, yet cannot submit unanswered questions.

#5 BlogDog123 on 10.04.21 at 4:09 pm

Facebook down. Likely a DDoS attack, maybe from within!

I get flooded with ‘push polling’ type clickbait pictures on my newsfeed. Lots of “freedom of the people” memes and crap that feeds the anti-Biden, anti-vax rhetoric. More of it thanks to Zuk’s algorithms!

The site is down because Zuckerberg is getting every employee to shred all documents today. See the attached picture for the heavy duty shredder he needs…

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MadeupTestyBushbaby-max-1mb.gif

#6 Woke up this morning... on 10.04.21 at 4:09 pm

Social media down!

Yes!

Suck it FaceBook!

#7 Swanson on 10.04.21 at 4:10 pm

COVID and the WFH that resulted from it have definitely changed how the labour market works.

My employer can now recruit in cities where we do not have physical offices. And if they are not in a city with high costs of living city we might even save on comp.

On the other hand, we lost a valuable colleague to a US tech giant. The job is fully remote so this person doesn’t even have to relocate.

#8 John Smith on 10.04.21 at 4:11 pm

“Do you intend to return as requested?”

What do you mean by “as requested”? I’d like to return two days a week… but my employer will not allow it anytime soon, we’re now officially 100% WFH

#9 Mr Canada on 10.04.21 at 4:17 pm

Things will start to resume in January as the main employers (Banks in the downtown core) start having employees return on a hybrid basis. Employers have little choice, they are scrambling to find people, talent has won the war and people have options, and many staying at home paid by T2 as well…

#10 Faron on 10.04.21 at 4:18 pm

W/re the poll:

Boils down to: I hate WFH only and would welcome a merit based work from home/flexible model. Over lunch with a colleague today we discussed the WFH drawbacks that boil down to lower interaction making work harder and less fun.

My answers:

1 WFH
2 No
3 Yes
4 Suffered
5 Maybe
6 Yes
7 Dog Time (duh)
8 Absolutely
9 No way
10 COVID forever (in some form)
11 Yes, dos

#11 ProsperosBooks on 10.04.21 at 4:19 pm

Of course people will return. Young people crammed into condos can’t wait. The ambitious will return and will be recognized by management. The rest – well, out of sight out of mind. You can’t build culture remotely. You can’t properly onboard and mentor young people remotely. The workplace will win out – give it a year.

#12 ImGonnaBeSick on 10.04.21 at 4:19 pm

#149 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 12:28 pm

Leave me out of this, F(a)ron. Play with your straw.

—-

Apparently I was the final one…

#16 Faron on 10.03.21 at 12:28 pm
#94 Faron on 10.03.21 at 7:50 pm
#120 Faron on 10.04.21 at 2:44 am
#121 Faron on 10.04.21 at 4:01 am
#144 Faron on 10.04.21 at 12:00 pm
#160 Faron on 10.04.21 at 2:33 pm
#161 Faron on 10.04.21 at 2:43 pm

Anyhow, you seem pretty worked up for someone who sees me and my views as a harmless nonthreat.

Yes, I am concerned, for you… Seven comments in half a day. All the same theme. You’ve been raving for several days now.

I explained my comments in a great big post that wasted anyone-who-read-its time. And of course they were “jokes”/teasings. Anyone external to you, can see that. Your outrage is misplaced. You are acting the bad-faith cry bully.

In the act of diplomacy, I conveniently left out this beauty of a comment;

#102 Faron on 10.02.21 at 11:10 pm
#93 ImGonnaBeSick on 10.02.21 at 8:44 pm

Ha, wow. You’re a class act. tripled down on names and even jabbed at my looks. And hilariously clueless. Maybe one of these days I’ll do a primer on salient facts and insults that land with me so folks like you and BillyBob

I especially love it when grumpy a-holes have to demonstrate how non grumpy they are by chatterboxing about their bliss.

The waning numbers like yourself will just be steamrolled. I tend to argue the need to ensure that jobs lost due to economic shifts should be carefully compensated. But, on days like today dealing with your Ilk, that generosity fades.

Enjoy your ragamuffins. Say hi to Penny for me. I hear she’s a handful.

#97 oops on 10.02.21 at 9:42 pm

The short bus I know of is the one that picks up the kids in front of my house and takes ’em to elementary. What did you mean Oops? What’s that behind your back? Is that a fistful of mud oozing between your fingers?

90 Sail Away on 10.02.21 at 8:01 pm

Ha, LOL. I’ve heard that fish don’t recognize that a world exists outside of their tank/lake/stream/sea.

Anyhow, I’m off to drill holes in my skull and take an ice bath. Treatnite!

Five separate people you pulled into your rant… Wished me economic misfortunes. Called me a grumpy a-hole… Cried ignorance to your little joke. All because I likened your toglodytics to a Seinfeld episode and called you a nerd. Which of course is immature – that’s the point.

“It’s ok, you’re a nerd. I don’t mind nerds, I went to school with a lot of them, I’ve hired a few of them… Now I don’t want to be actually mean to you, because although I find you to be an obnoxious, clueless, pretentious, faux intellectual, super genius, I don’t know you enough to truly dislike you…”

Well, I think that last part has changed.

There isn’t anything I’ve said in the past that is not accurate with the knowledge and data at the time. I think I’m a bit closer to this than you… Again, you are applying a narrative that does not exist. Even the “hide under the bed” types, were not correct about covid.

I stand by my 1.6% emissions comment.

But, you’ve pulled me back into your lunacy one more time, and it will be the final time. I guess when we finally meet, we’ll figure it out a little less diplomatically.

But until then, I’m finished conversing with you. Thank you for the trip through Wonderland. So many colours.

#13 TalkingPie on 10.04.21 at 4:19 pm

Another survey where many of the questions assume that the previous questions were answered a specific way, with no option to leave non-applicable questions blank.

You’re bound to get a bias in results when people abandon submitting their surveys due to not being able to answer in a way that makes sense.

Did you not get your money’s worth here today? – Garth

#14 Mattl on 10.04.21 at 4:19 pm

(9) Should people opting for WFH be paid less?

—————————————————————–

Depending on where you WFH, you will be paid less today…. most large org’s today have pay grids that account for location of the employee. Live in Colorado, you make more then same job in Arkansas.

Outside of these types of adjustments, not sure what the employees costs have to do with their pay. Sure you save some money by working from home, but so does the employer. Those shiny buildings are expensive, employers are chomping at the bit to wind down lease agreements and downsize.

There isn’t a one size fits all here. For me, being able to hire WFH staff eliminates geographical limitations on talent acquisition. I get significantly better candidates casting a net that covers all the US States and Provinces as opposed to trying to place someone in Toronto, or Atlanta.

We travel for events, client meetings and team build that way. I don’t need to physically see them to know they are working.

And I’d take a top talent that wants to pick up his kids from school, or walk the dog over a mediocre talent that puts on a blue suit, commutes 100 minutes and makes it to his desk every day. The work needs to be high quality, and it needs to get done, how they get there is not that important to me.

It’s all about talent for me and good luck attracting the best and the brightest without flex work opportunities.

#15 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 4:23 pm

The survey is just for “work from home”.

What about the rest of the working population?

#16 Dolce Vita on 10.04.21 at 4:27 pm

“..Scotia Plaza, the 68-storey tower at King & Bay where I have a palatial corner office..”

— Overlord.

Gone forever are the days of serf prostrate bows after receiving Messianic financial advice from the lofty heights of Barad dûr, crawling backwards on all fours thru the throne room adorned mahogany burled wood inlay double doors with largish gold plated pomello’s acquired from Neuschwanstein Castle and Mr. Charles Ernest Carson to see you out.

Hell on Earth.

———————-

I ‘dunno Garth. Once people feel safe again they will go back to the office maybe not in the numbers pre-Pandemic but I believe they will come back eventually. How long will that take?

Who knows.

Humanity is a herd species, gregarious.

It is written into our DNA.

Nature over nurture.

Of all the things a baby can do, why does it cry when it needs attention?

And what do the parents do upon hearing the Siren song?

They come running.

#17 Doug t on 10.04.21 at 4:28 pm

Up next UBI

#18 Bilious Festeroni on 10.04.21 at 4:31 pm

A couple of additional comments:
– I’ve been working remotely for 6 years, well prior to Covid. I am more productive than I was in the office, but my work life bleeds into family life, and vice versa.
– The difference being that I can start working at 5am if I need to, get the kids to school, be there for sports and bedtime, and finish my tasks after they are in bed.
– My time is measured in 15-min increments (billable hours), so I can quantify levels of relative productivity (roughly 15% more productive, as measured in billable time).
– In an ideal world, I would be in the office 2-3 days/week, because I do believe that face-to-face interaction is critical, but that won’t be possible in my current job (I work remotely, in the geographical sense).
– I don’t necessarily agree that wages should be lower for remote workers. I would flip that around – for me to be able to afford a similar or reduced lifestyle in the city, my salary would have to increase quite far beyond a level that is reasonable. I’m highly chargeable, but my employer doesn’t need to pay for my work space (I cover my phone, internet, etc.). In theory, that frees up office space for another chargeable employee. So one way of looking at it, at least for our business model, is that your ratio of chargeable hours to real estate overhead increases with an increase in staff working remotely.

#19 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 10.04.21 at 4:32 pm

Garth, Toronthole doesn’t need a busy downtown – that fits perfectly with the quiet and depressing mood at the Roger’s Overpriced Cable Centre and the Scotiabank Morgue!

Congrats to the Blow Jays – 28 Years of Failure!

Watch out Make Believes, they’re coming after you!

#20 R on 10.04.21 at 4:33 pm

For about $ 2 Trillion , a renewable solar farm about 200 mi X 200mi in Arizona ,along with suitable battery management ,can be built that will replace all coal and oil & gas electrical utilities in the USA. If it is increased by about 50%, all ground transportation energy needs can be covered with Battery Electric cars and trucks. I would pull the Oil & Gas/Coal plug in a heart beat.
https://youtu.be/YJ-HlykM1LU

#21 SunShowers on 10.04.21 at 4:36 pm

#13 TalkingPie on 10.04.21 at 4:19 pm
Another survey where many of the questions assume that the previous questions were answered a specific way, with no option to leave non-applicable questions blank.

Dude…has it never occurred to you that not all surveys are meant to be taken by everyone?

#22 Shamus on 10.04.21 at 4:36 pm

I couldn’t answer this survey. My work takes me into people’s homes (2-3) daily and then I have time at home to write reports about people’s homes.

I know we have an office, but I have never been. With today’s technology there is no need for me to go to the office ever.

#23 TS on 10.04.21 at 4:38 pm

Tough situation at the moment. If WFH proves to be truly productive over the longer term, it will be a game changer for sure. There are lots of good things, but I’m not sure if you weigh all the pros and cons that it is a good thing. We were already offshoring most of the new hire “cube jockies” anyways…now it has shifted into high gear. I think that collectively we forgot to think about if the labor market goes global, we are on the wrong side of the cost fence.

#24 kommykim on 10.04.21 at 4:38 pm

The survey is a bit flawed:
If you select “Working in my normal workplace” for question one, then many of the following questions and answers become contradictory but they cannot be left blank.

#25 Nonplused on 10.04.21 at 4:39 pm

I still do not imagine that work from home will have much impact on salaries. Employers never cared what your personal expenditures were before and they don’t care now. They pay the least they can to get the job done satisfactorily. Always did, always will.

Oooh that makes them evil! Nope. It’s no different than you getting 3 quotes when you need a new roof.

So it is back to the “invisible hand” to set wages. The more specialization and the more training and responsibility your job entails, the more you will get paid. That you would like a 3 bedroom bungalow in the suburbs or a condo within walking distance doesn’t really factor in. If your job demands a salary that can afford a bungalow, good for you. But the employer doesn’t care.

What’s left to see is how many jobs return to the office because that’s where the boss wants his/her employees, how many stay at home, or how many it has been discovered aren’t really required and will thus be eliminated. Only time will tell.

————————————–

It doesn’t really matter if we all get overpaid or underpaid because those are relative terms. Money is relative. If you get paid $7.50 an hour and lunch is $7.50, you are no worse off than if you get paid $15 an hour and lunch is $15, save what tax implications arise (you could be worse off in the second example).

Thus, everyone attempting to pay the least they can for everything from labor to coffee pots make sense. Overpaying doesn’t. The problem is the equilibrium can be found when everyone pays the least they can; there is a minimum to all prices. But if everyone tried to pay as much as they can or some arbitrary “living wage”, well, there is no limit on the upside.

It also doesn’t make sense instinctively. When you go to Canadian Tire and that tent you’ve been looking at is 40% off, it goes in the cart. But you never see them have a “40% more” sale. On the face of it it seems ridiculous but expecting employers to pay more than market rates is no more ridiculous.

We can also look at how we react to prices. When the plumber hands us the bill several commenters in this section feel, perhaps rightly, that they have been ripped off. We don’t think “well I’m glad that plumber has a living wage”. On the other hand when the neighbor’s kid clears your driveway for $10 you don’t think “Hmm that took him 2 hours, I really should pay him $30”. The thought never crosses your mind. If it did it would be to celebrate how little you paid the poor kid.

So it is just human nature. All prices must be negotiated around the minimum because that is the only place there is a boundary condition.

Except for houses in YYZ and YVR of course. My theory does not work at all when discussing houses in YYZ and YVR. It seems in those cases the market is moving towards the unbounded upper case so having no boundary the sky is the limit.

#26 SoggyShorts on 10.04.21 at 4:40 pm

#167 SoggyShorts on 10.04.21 at 3:41 pm
#164 Down with BLACK FACE on 10.04.21 at 3:05 pm
DELETED

Did everyone else also assume that this deleted post was about Trudeau?
That’s not great…

Posts are not deleted for choice of topic, but offensive content. – Garth
****************
@Garth I wasn’t complaining about your censorship, I’m sure it was something racist or with foul language- what I was saying “isn’t great” is that my mind automatically jumped from “Blackface” to “Trudeau”, and I’m guessing others did too.

#27 ogdoad on 10.04.21 at 4:42 pm

Stats magician, as usual, Garth.

The adaptability of humans will never cease to amaze me. We are witnessing a small evolution of workplace dynamics and culture, for sure. But, we will adapt and work givers will adapt also. Whether that be by trimming the fat due to availability of quicker internet speeds and (god forbid) clearer screens or realizing all this real estate/up keep/toilet paper is costing a fortune.

We have just proved to world leaders that the masses will adapt when faced with adversity. We’ll get jabbed, accept $$$ from the gov. abide to lock downs and other limitations (not to mention giving up important DATA to get vaxxed – unvaxxed are known too)……as long as there is netflix and justeat who cares? Oh, and houses…

In my opinion WFH is just the tip o’ the iceberg as far lasting societal after effects are concerned.

But we’ll get used to it.

Og

#28 Big Bucks on 10.04.21 at 4:45 pm

Are the 4.5 million public sector workers ever returning to work?When they do they will all be looking for 6-10% pay raises over 3-4 years(maybe more)Interesting times ahead as businesses just pack up their tents.

#29 Linda on 10.04.21 at 4:52 pm

As a relatively recent retiree most of today’s survey doesn’t apply, except for questions #10 where I believe the crisis will last another year, mainly because of far too many folks deciding against question #11. For the record, double vaccinated household as of June 2021. Contemplating a ‘booster’ shot over the winter. Not because I don’t think the vaccines we’ve already received haven’t worked but because we had mixed shots. AZ, then Pfizer. Since a lot of places we’d like to visit are not recognizing AZ as a valid vaccine we will likely get another Pfizer shot in order to be able to travel abroad at some future date.

About paying folks who WFH less, if those folks are performing the same work at those who go to the office wouldn’t paying them less amount to discrimination? I suppose those who go into the office could have a travel allowance tacked onto the base pay rate in order to get around any ‘equal pay for equal work’ issues that might arise.

However the WFH vs WFW debate ignores the fact that if the work can be performed out of the corporate office that means the employer has the option of finding employees who are far less costly in the world wide pool of potential hires. ‘Work life balance’ depends on actually having work to pay for the lifestyle you want to live.

#30 wallflower on 10.04.21 at 4:53 pm

1998 to 2018 I worked from home, freelance.
Raised my spawn on my single freelance WFH income over those years.
Worked out of an owned house small town, Ontariowe; a rental highrise GTA; a rental townhouse GTA; a rental in Florida; a university dormitory in B.C. that offered only hardwire ethernet (mandatory since wifi was never sufficient for my purposes); a shack in urban Northern Ontario (way north, not Sudbury north); owned home in mid size city Ontariowe.
So awesome to have mobility just for the fun of it. (These new-age WFHers threw mobility out their collective windows with their massive mortgages and perilous indebtedness.)

The only thing new about WFH is that the sheeple who could not see this for themselves were forced into seeing something sensible.
What else is out there we need to get the sheeple informed about?

#31 Bob on 10.04.21 at 4:55 pm

I think the idea of paying people less depending on where they live is completely unjustifiable. It’s none of your employer’s business what your cost of living is.
You should be paid based on the value of what you produce. Granted, what you produce might be worth less when working from home, depending on the industry. But the bottom line is that remote work is remote work. It shouldn’t matter if you do it from Toronto or Sudbury.

#32 Chris on 10.04.21 at 4:55 pm

You’ll be pleased to know that as a hard-working Ontario teacher I’ve been in a school every single day that I’ve been allowed to be over the last 18 months.

#33 Stone on 10.04.21 at 4:56 pm

I don’t think employers are in a position at the moment to tick off their workforce by reducing salaries because people are WFH (or even WFW). They can try but I do think they will also feel what it’s like to get kicked in the nuts when employees move over to the competition. I hear employee retention (as in, holy crap, we can’t find people to work here, what do we do?) is currently a heavily discussed topic in the boardroom.

In my case, I don’t personally care either way. Wonderfully retired in my mid 40s. Slothing is great! My wonderful B&D portfolio is doing nicely currently sitting at 16.55%.

I wonder where everyone’s investment portfolios are at currently. I also wonder how many people retired (got severance) and decided to hang up their shingle and get a life.

#34 TurnerNation on 10.04.21 at 4:58 pm

#111 Bezengy on 10.03.21 at 10:12 am
https://www.greaterfool.ca/2021/10/02/bigger-pictures/#comment-805787

Your post was very revealing. All you points were about the MIND/Attitude & CV Beliefs
Almost you hint they got what was coming to them due to their poor attitudes??
Which goes to what I’ve been saying all along this current war is for our Minds.

——-

— Control over our feeding? Yep sick, tired tax farm creatures. Fit for Big Pharma.

https://scienceblog.com/513550/soybean-oil-tied-to-obesity-neurological-problems-study/
January 17, 2020 ScienceBlog.com
New UC Riverside research shows soybean oil not only leads to obesity and diabetes, but could also affect neurological conditions like autism, Alzheimer’s disease, anxiety, and depression.
Used for fast food frying, added to packaged foods, and fed to livestock, soybean oil is by far the most widely produced and consumed edible oil in the U.S., according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In all likelihood, it is not healthy for humans.


— Control over our Breeding?? What the…

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/Legis/CSM/showMemoPublic.cfm?chamber=H&SPick=20210&cosponId=36286

Posted: October 2, 2021 03:06 PM
From: Representative Christopher M. Rabb
To: All House members
Subject: Enforcing reproductive responsibility among men
Therefore, I will be introducing legislation that will require all inseminators to undergo vasectomies within 6 weeks from having their third child or 40th birthday, whichever comes first.

#35 YVRTechGuy on 10.04.21 at 4:58 pm

Given the choice I’d much prefer to be working from the office, Yes, commute, office-life, the boss looking over me, the works. It was good for me, and good for my career too.

But the reality is, anything even remotely approximating a family home, anywhere within a plausible super-commute to the office, is now $2M+. Whereas out here in Bunnypatch, simple family homes are just $800k.

Yes, maybe they were half-that a couple of years ago, but the truth is, I can’t afford to work from the office anymore.

#36 Leftover on 10.04.21 at 5:04 pm

WFH has several layers:

WFH for a knowledge worker might mean being granted a green card and making “home” the USA where they’d be paid more and could afford a house.

WFH for a less skilled office worker might mean being replaced by a remote worker calling “home” a low cost country like India.

WFH for a skilled trades-person or healthcare worker is irrelevant. Same goes for a lot of essential workers where the workplace is intrinsic to the job.

Bottom line for a Canadian worker who makes WFH a priority will be that they’ll be making less money.

#37 Still employed in AB on 10.04.21 at 5:08 pm

My work has a lot of essential workers on site every day and our head office is out of province but since the CEO proved the work from home concept he upped and moved from a high tax, high cost of living area, to a much lower one. I think some roles will be permanently remote/occasional visits to the office.

#38 Habitt on 10.04.21 at 5:13 pm

The wfh was a comin anyway. The entrepreneurs caught with its accelerated reality will suffer but roll with the punches. Tons of abandoned spaces throughout the world. More to come it appears. People will spend those downtown dollars somewhere to be sure. Those minimum wage/tip jobs will move is all. Wfh has too many benefits to society to be dismissed cause it’s causing pain now. My 2 cents.

#39 Flop… on 10.04.21 at 5:15 pm

Welcome to Canada’s number one mental diagnosis blog.

I’ve got an issue I want to run by you guys.

I don’t like it when my wife puts her toothbrush up against mine in the toothbrush jar.

I’m not talking handle to handle action, more head to head stuff.

She thinks it no big deal, which surprised me, because she’s OCD 99.9% of the time.

I come home from work, and her toothbrush is up against mine, I wanna throw it out, or at least boil it in water to kill the germs, at this rate I’m going to need my TFSA to be kicking out enough for 365 toothbrush’s a year.

I move my toothbrush to the other side of the vanity and she says “Oh, we’re putting the toothbrush’s over here now?”

Am I crazy, or what Canada?

How do we stand on this, toothbrush’s touching your spouses o.k, or not?

Maybe if I get a work from home gig I can then keep an eye on my toothbrush…

M47BC

#40 Blobby on 10.04.21 at 5:15 pm

I guess my vote is skewed in that I’ve worked from home for over a decade..

#41 Dolce Vita on 10.04.21 at 5:16 pm

The problem I see in Canada w/high % WFH is the botched “Green Pass” requirements that vary from Province to Province.

There should have been a National Green Pass same standard across Canada.

In Italia you need it to go to work (EVERYONE*), to school, enclosed spaces, etc. People back at work, feel safe and little or no bellyaching.

Because of the Green Pass requirements the over 12 yrs old, low and slow Italia, now has 84.09% single dose vaxd while 79.27% fully vaccinated.

Entire population of 60M: 76.65% single dose, 72.25% fully vaxd. Italia is aiming for 90% fully vaxd and will get it as few anti vax here, 3% last poll I read.

Milano Piazza Duomo today:
https://i.imgur.com/DHj5Ay0.png

2020:
https://i.imgur.com/LwvO6mp.png

*Exemptions for those that cannot be vaccinated (still must take tests for Covid though), have had Covid and are cured of it. To Oct. 15 unvaxd people can in lieu take a rapid test valid for 42 hrs or a molecular test valid for 72 hrs to go to work.

————–

If Canada can clean up its “Green Pass” standards nationally and ENFORCE them like Italia does, you will have offices repopulated fast enough as is happening now in Italia.

#42 John on 10.04.21 at 5:16 pm

Can’t do the survey because I am first responder. Some in the office were able to work from home for a bit but I can’t answer for them. We are all back now. For the few who did work from home for a bit are now back. Have been for some months now.

#43 Blobby on 10.04.21 at 5:18 pm

#9. How is it fair that someone should be paid less for working from home, because their costs are less?

Last time I checked, if you’re working from home, the employers costs are significantly less too..

Surely the “fair” thing would be to increase wages?

#44 Faron on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

#12 ImGonnaBeSick on 10.04.21 at 4:19 pm

All I’ll say is that four of those five folks leapt in of their own volition. When two goons attack (you and Penny) and 2 come in to support (oops and Sail Away) you’re gonna get a lot of comments because I will defend myself. Don’t act surprised and mind your own use of realestate here.

The 5th? Well, your and his bullying and “just joking” approach are so nearly identical that he opted to clarify that you and he aren’t the same poster. Frankly, by steadily trolling me for months with “Foron” and making pointed comments at me you left any chance of actual discussion in the remote past and any hope of me taking your “jokes” as ribbing just as far behind. And your COVID takes were terrible and ignorant to the data and expertise of PHOs everywhere back then. Wouldn’t be surprised if they are still.

” I guess when we finally meet, we’ll figure it out a little less diplomatically.”

So a Sail Away esque thinly veiled threat of violence? Because you can’t stomach your admitted kicking of a weak and harmless commenter with alleged poor mental health despite posting namelessly in a comments section loaded with your own allies? Rich. Next step in this playbook is cancelling me — just saving you from having to look it up.

#45 oops on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

Too al the dude/ettes responding to Faron (Sp?)

Please stop. You’re giving him/her/it a voice.

But if you like the bickering, take it offline.

#46 sailedaway on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

Mmmm, I work from home running my own business
and only go into Toronto to laugh at the “world-class city”

I guess the survey doesn’t cover all the options.

#defundthecra

#47 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 5:22 pm

What I miss most about WFW is the choices I have of what to eat at lunch since I work/worked downtown. My lunches choices during WFH has gotten stale.
Although, I still presumably have a 1/2 hr lunch and sometimes slip out to get something since I’m not in the sticks.
The hardships I endure with WFH.

#48 Facebook Lockdown on 10.04.21 at 5:23 pm

I noticed a much lighter and happier atmosphere around the homestead today. No one was comparing their lives to the Kardashians or to the lives their friends are pretending to live.

Well done Facebook! Lead the way on social media lockdowns!

#49 Kurt on 10.04.21 at 5:27 pm

Garth, testing is a standard part of survey development. Even having a couple of your Amazons fill it out would have revealed the problems. Of course, I have no grounds to complain (except that I’m free to do so, courtesy your generosity!)

Entertaining as always!

#50 Shamus' Wife on 10.04.21 at 5:34 pm

A little difficult to answer the questions, so I will answer here:

1. Working for home Full-time.

2. Yes, some people but not me.

3. Yes, if it is required.

4. More Productive.

5. Maybe

6. Somewhat

7. All of the above

8. Depends on the job

9. No

10. Crisis won’t last, but Covid is never leaving

11. No…I have 1 shot & prefer not to get another if possible.

#51 DM in C on 10.04.21 at 5:35 pm

I was poached over the summer by a company in Ontario (I live in AB).

30% bump, and the CEO doesn’t care where I live. Alberta taxes, Ontario salary.

WFH for the win.

#52 Kool Aid on 10.04.21 at 5:35 pm

Some REITS will have to overhaul, others adjust depending on property portfolio composition. WFH is here to stay, regulators will catch up with the reality on the ground in future Federal budgets.

Residential real estate soft costs will be much higher in the years ahead, maintenance fees, property repairs, insurance, utilities, municipal taxes, all going up, locking in a fully discounted long term mortgage rate makes sense.

Our Fed Gov will likely incentivize lending conditions for business creation and rehabilitation… basically keep spending and raising taxes.

#53 Shamus on 10.04.21 at 5:37 pm

Rather than work from home, should we not be talking about the effect that TAAS will have on everyday life?

#54 Faron on 10.04.21 at 5:42 pm

#107 Penny Henny on 10.03.21 at 8:22 am

Says he who talks about his alcoholic mother

I talked about her in the context of some insensitive exchange about addiction. It applied to a thread of conversation, if not the theme of the blog in general.

Penny, in my early thirties I put my life on hold and spent a year caring for my mother while she died of cancer. I lived in a tent in her car-port and did whatever I could to support her so that she could live a fulfilling life even as her lungs filled up with tumours that eventually spread everywhere and killed her. We sat together for hours over coffee and her cigarettes in the morning and talked. At night towards the end we sometimes playfully joked (at her lead) about the hallucinations she was experiencing. I watched over her as she took her dying breaths surrounded by her children in the comfort in her own home.

She was an alcoholic. She had the strength and tenacity to turn her life around 5 years before her death and fulfill a dream of living on the Oregon coast and pursuing art. She remains a complicated but overall inspiring person in my life. You have intoned that I denigrated her by bringing this up and you are implying that I’m a morally inferior person for doing so. I think you are wrong.

Archaic views of addiction and black and white takes about dedication to one’s parents are far more toxic than my own regrettable incantation of the “short bus” recently. You can say whatever you want here, but your comments about my mother are about as low of blows as get delivered here by me and anyone else. I’ve told you precisely why this is. Ball’s in your court.

#55 Dave on 10.04.21 at 5:44 pm

“Let’s not forget our wonderful fellow Canadians that were giggling and laughing at Alberta while joking about who would turn out the lights in April/May of 2020. I know I won’t. Ever.”
——-

Now they are shouting and crying at the incompetent sociopath premier for his ineptitude in managing the pandemic.

#56 UCC on 10.04.21 at 5:44 pm

#41 Dolce Vita on 10.04.21 at 5:16 pm
The problem I see in Canada w/high % WFH is the botched “Green Pass” requirements that vary from Province to Province.

There should have been a National Green Pass same standard across Canada.

Not sure that is true. We don’t need a “Green Pass”. We need to get over this attitude that people will not be sick. Look what has happen in Singapore and Norway.

https://youtu.be/_ItkYhFiGBI

#57 alexinvestor on 10.04.21 at 5:47 pm

The same capitalism that spawned Amazon also spawned WFH. If WFH wins in the end, then it wins because it’s more efficient … just as Amazon has proven to be a more efficient model of distribution than a lot of storefronts, and Zoom may (or may not) prove to be more efficient than office space.

Angst .. of course. Just as there was angst during the industrial revolution when not as many farmers were needed anymore.

#58 Trojan House on 10.04.21 at 5:50 pm

Well, I can say Covid will never be leaving Canada, the US, the UK, or some other European countries. Meanwhile, in Spain, Norway, Denmark and Sweden, they have declared Covid something they will have to live with and have lifted all restrictions and mask mandates, etc.

I guess the science says that Covid in those places is different from the Covid we have here.

#59 gfd on 10.04.21 at 5:51 pm

TD Bank Fresh Mortgage Rates
Term Rate Change (bps) New 25 Year Amortization Rate New +25 Year

3 Year Fixed ↑10 2.24% 2.34% 2.39%
4 Year Fixed ↑5 2.29% 2.39% 2.44%
5 Year Fixed ↑30 2.29% 2.39% 2.44%
5 Year Fixed High-Ratio ↑30 2.19% – –

#60 Faron on 10.04.21 at 5:52 pm

#45 oops on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

take it offline.

Tried it. The Trogs just thought I was scamming them. They want their “good names” kept “clean” here and to be able to posture maximally.

I’m done with this.

#61 Jorge on 10.04.21 at 5:52 pm

Many technology companies were started in a WFAnywhere fashion and they have been very successful. They created the template for doing it, but traditional companies ignored it. COVID forced every company to look at that template, and some will adapt better than others. If your company moves atoms, you will still need to go to the workplace. If your company moves bits, you can work from wherever you can. It will be another one of the big divides of our time.

#62 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 5:54 pm

#39 Flop… on 10.04.21 at 5:15 pm
Welcome to Canada’s number one mental diagnosis blog.

I’ve got an issue I want to run by you guys.

I don’t like it when my wife puts her toothbrush up against mine in the toothbrush jar.

I’m not talking handle to handle action, more head to head stuff.

She thinks it no big deal, which surprised me, because she’s OCD 99.9% of the time.

I come home from work, and her toothbrush is up against mine, I wanna throw it out, or at least boil it in water to kill the germs, at this rate I’m going to need my TFSA to be kicking out enough for 365 toothbrush’s a year.

I move my toothbrush to the other side of the vanity and she says “Oh, we’re putting the toothbrush’s over here now?”

Am I crazy, or what Canada?

How do we stand on this, toothbrush’s touching your spouses o.k, or not?

Maybe if I get a work from home gig I can then keep an eye on my toothbrush…

M47BC
*** :) :)

You are pretty funny! Did you ever kiss your wife? If so, that must have grossed you out. Did you vomit afterwards?

#63 Penny Henny on 10.04.21 at 5:55 pm

.#16 Faron on 10.03.21 at 12:28 pm
#94 Faron on 10.03.21 at 7:50 pm
#120 Faron on 10.04.21 at 2:44 am
#121 Faron on 10.04.21 at 4:01 am
#144 Faron on 10.04.21 at 12:00 pm
#160 Faron on 10.04.21 at 2:33 pm
#161 Faron on 10.04.21 at 2:43 pm

Yes, I am concerned, for you… Seven comments in half a day. All the same theme. You’ve been raving for several days now

////////////////////

Faron you need to take your meds as prescribed. You manic depressiveness is on full display.

#64 Marc on 10.04.21 at 5:58 pm

I work for public health in Manitoba in a business role. I was advised by my manager that the managements request to executives is basically 2 days WFH and 3 days optional in the office, based on work activities. Permanently.
Survey of both our major Healthcare bodies indicated 98% of workers are satisfied with WFH, and want to continue.
WfH looks like its going to be the new norm Manitoba, with Public health leading the way.

#65 AM in MN on 10.04.21 at 5:59 pm

The bigger issue is opening up the international borders, especially for business travelers.

The supply shocks are going to get worse until people can travel and sort things out. There is no logical reason for these closures if people are vaxed OR have antibodies from previous infections.

The big pain is still yet to come, it takes a while to shut things down, there was a lot still in the pipeline.

For a country like Canada, which doesn’t produce a lot of what it needs, it needs people to be able to travel in order to conduct trade.

These are not problems caused by Covid, they are caused by nanny state governments enjoying the power and control they have inflicted upon people. The lies the governments are telling will be the real danger going forward as the lack of trust will be hard to win back.

Wait until all the government workers start strikes to demand pay raises for all the inflation… that ’70’s show!

#66 mike from mtl on 10.04.21 at 6:05 pm

Excellent timing, my employer is trying to sublease firesale at least 60% RE. I’d guess around city centre here like your TO Path is at 5-10% tops. There’s hints of life in the shopping malls but transit and office towers? Nope.

NOBODY I know wants to ever go back, probably unless completely forced by salary reductions. I’d like the choice but looks like my colleagues are clear on this.

Yeah the days of lording over the cube farm are done. Unless our communist ‘leaders’ back off, this will spiral out of control.

#67 Penny Henny on 10.04.21 at 6:05 pm

#33 Stone on 10.04.21 at 4:56 pm

I wonder where everyone’s investment portfolios are at currently. I also wonder how many people retired (got severance) and decided to hang up their shingle and get a life.

/////////////////

CDN dividend payers at 27.05%

#68 under the radar on 10.04.21 at 6:06 pm

My office is not at my home. I own the building that my office is in. My wife and I are the only employees and only occupants of the office . Nothing changed for us. Most of my clients are still working from home or hybrid. Not going back to the way it was.

#69 Bankersorta on 10.04.21 at 6:07 pm

Be careful all you WFH advocates….even those willing to take a pay cut of 20% to avoid the commute. WFH will soon become WFA (work from anywhere) and offshoring will eliminate your jobs to more qualified folks overseas willing to work for 12 hours a day for 60% less (and no benefit costs or government payroll taxes) than you….and think they won the lottery. You are currently just the test environment.

#70 mark on 10.04.21 at 6:09 pm

Where’d that money go? Here’s one, Liverpool, Nova Scotia. Listed in 2013, took 4 years to sell. Finally went for $115k in 2017. There has been no updates done since then, same cracks in the ceiling. Sold this August for $399k in 10 days.

https://www.viewpoint.ca/map#eyJvdmVydmlldyI6eyJsaXN0aW5nIjp7ImNsYXNzX2lkIjoxLCJsaXN0aW5nX2lkIjoiMjAyMTIxMzMyIn0sInByb3BlcnR5Ijp7InBpZCI6IjcwMDI0ODk4IiwiY2xhc3NfaWQiOiIxIn19LCJzdW1tYXJ5Ijp7Imxpc3RpbmciOnsiY2xhc3NfaWQiOjEsImxpc3RpbmdfaWQiOiIyMDIxMjEzMzIifSwicHJvcGVydHkiOnsicGlkIjoiNzAwMjQ4OTgiLCJjbGFzc19pZCI6IjEifX19

#71 Nonplused on 10.04.21 at 6:13 pm

#20 R on 10.04.21 at 4:33 pm
For about $ 2 Trillion , a renewable solar farm about 200 mi X 200mi in Arizona ,along with suitable battery management ,can be built that will replace all coal and oil & gas electrical utilities in the USA. If it is increased by about 50%, all ground transportation energy needs can be covered with Battery Electric cars and trucks. I would pull the Oil & Gas/Coal plug in a heart beat.
https://youtu.be/YJ-HlykM1LU

—————————————-

So you want to cover Arizona with 40,000 to 60,000 square miles of solar panels to somehow power New York?

I guess that is only 52% of the state that needs to be covered so no big deal. The tortoises and snakes can just move to Nevada.

I think I’ll keep my O&G stocks.

#72 Ustabe on 10.04.21 at 6:14 pm

To me, its easy as pie. If you have a workplace that can support work from home you leave the introverts at home and populate your office with the extroverts. Everybody wins.

All sorts of things are easy if you ponder on them enough.

Seems to be that chicken of the woods is having a banner year, out here in coastal Vancouver Island anyway. They only grow on hardwood trees so if you have a forest of hardwood nearby maybe a good time for a walk and look-see. see Google for your recipes.

#73 Nonplused on 10.04.21 at 6:16 pm

#39 Flop… on 10.04.21 at 5:15 pm

“How do we stand on this, toothbrush’s touching your spouses o.k, or not?

Maybe if I get a work from home gig I can then keep an eye on my toothbrush…”

When not in use my toothbrush stands free on its’ charger.

#74 Penny Henny on 10.04.21 at 6:17 pm

#39 Flop… on 10.04.21 at 5:15 pm
Welcome to Canada’s number one mental diagnosis blog.

I’ve got an issue I want to run by you guys.

I don’t like it when my wife puts her toothbrush up against mine in the toothbrush jar.

I’m not talking handle to handle action, more head to head stuff.

She thinks it no big deal, which surprised me, because she’s OCD 99.9% of the time.

I come home from work, and her toothbrush is up against mine, I wanna throw it out, or at least boil it in water to kill the germs, at this rate I’m going to need my TFSA to be kicking out enough for 365 toothbrush’s a year.

I move my toothbrush to the other side of the vanity and she says “Oh, we’re putting the toothbrush’s over here now?”

Am I crazy, or what Canada?

How do we stand on this, toothbrush’s touching your spouses o.k, or not?

Maybe if I get a work from home gig I can then keep an eye on my toothbrush…

M47BC
////////////////

Have you noticed your toothbrush having any abnormal anti-vax ideas lately?

///////////////

Golf clap Flop

#75 Do we have all the facts on 10.04.21 at 6:18 pm

Flexibility will alleviate congestion and reduce CO2 emissions.

Two days in a downtown office for meetings and face to face reporting and three days at home completing assigned work does not sound like a radical change. Just think of the additional work that could be competed in the six hours each employee WFH would save by not have to commute three days a week.

Flexible use of existing office space would reduce the number of cars on the roads, the amount of land needed for parking, the need for additional buildings that tax the capacity of our existing infrastructure, and would reduce the carbon footprint.

It just might be worth a try.

#76 Drew on 10.04.21 at 6:19 pm

Missed an option:
3) Yes, but I’m not looking forward to it.

I like my job. I like being at home and at work. It’s all the in between time I loathe, like travel, and I don’t miss it.

#77 Now what on 10.04.21 at 6:22 pm

Now that we know the vaccine only lasts 6- 7 months does everybody’s vaccine card expire? Do the holders then become unvaccinated? Will the booster get us up to date?
Who wants to work downtown if not allowed in stores and restaurants?

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/covid-jab-protection-wanes-within-six-months-uk-researchers-2021-08-25/

#78 Is anybody home? on 10.04.21 at 6:24 pm

DELETED

#79 pPrasseur on 10.04.21 at 6:26 pm

Markets down again, blackouts in China along with huge RE bankruptcy, inflation everywhere, labor shortages, etc…

Feels like a storm’s coming.

Hope you really didn’t think those millennials would have it easy all their life did you?

#80 Habitt on 10.04.21 at 6:30 pm

39 Flop your post is hilarious. Thanks don’t change a thing. Enjoy your congratulations daily. Keep em comim

#81 tremblant110 on 10.04.21 at 6:32 pm

A lot of repercussions from WFH. Just visited my barber today. Last time was at least 3-4 months ago. Used to visit every 6 weeks. Do not need a trim haircut if on Zoom. His business is still far from what it used to be. He is hurting!

#82 BillyBob on 10.04.21 at 6:32 pm

How’s that WFH working out for the Facebook engineers that work remotely and can’t access their network to repair it because, err…their network is down. lol

It does seem that the overriding reason most WFH’ers give to rationalize why it will never go back to WFW is “because I like it”.

Uh, yeah. Your bosses have that as your top priority. *eye roll*

#83 Habitt on 10.04.21 at 6:32 pm

Pardon Flop that’s contribution.

#84 KLNR on 10.04.21 at 6:37 pm

Here in Toronto WFH is going quite nicely for most.
Wife just hired a couple execs specifically to WFH.
Closest folks are to going back to an office is on a flex sched. couple days in the office a week but only if absolutely necessary.

#85 KLNR on 10.04.21 at 6:42 pm

@#45 oops on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm
Too al the dude/ettes responding to Faron (Sp?)

Please stop. You’re giving him/her/it a voice.

But if you like the bickering, take it offline.

maybe you could take off as well.

#86 George S on 10.04.21 at 6:45 pm

My kids and their wives have been mostly working from home during the pandemic. One son has been converted to only working from home and likely never going back to the office, the other has a slightly different job where he works a day now and then at the office and goes to mine sites for a week at a time now and then, his wife the same. She found that she liked going in to work for a couple of days a week. The first son’s wife has a lab job so she works from home whenever necessary but there are a lot of things she does where she has to go into work. All of them enjoy the time at home because they can get their work done and not have to commute, they have set up a home gym in their basement and can do their workout right after work. They figure they have about 90 minutes a day extra time.

I am retired but when I worked I would not have been able to work from home.

#20 R said:
“For about $ 2 Trillion , a renewable solar farm about 200 mi X 200mi in Arizona ,along with suitable battery management …….”

That may be a little small. You want to make sure that you are including the 5.5 hours of full solar output out of every 24 hours in your calculations. Also you need to have ample space between the rows of solar panels for maintenance and cleaning. Then there are the batteries. You would likely need about two days worth of power storage (only because it is Arizona and they seldom get cloudy weather), the batteries would be very large. Then there are the wires and inverters. Plus all the racks, thousands and thousands of kilometres of steel tubing
There may not be enough metal mining and refining capabilities in the US or even the world to accomplish this. And then you start to figure out the high voltage DC power lines and the completely brand new electrical grid that you would have to build.
Plus the up front energy investment, buffered solar requires an up front investment of about half of the energy that the system will produce in its lifetime.

#87 Coho on 10.04.21 at 6:45 pm

Blaming this rapidly developing hell on earth on covid is like blaming the bullet and not the shooter. Things are only going to get worse as humanity sleepwalks into the new normal. If anyone still thinks that the ruling elite’s reaction to covid is intended to get things back to pre- 2020, well we’ll have to come up with a label for this group. Lord knows we have one for ever other.

Isn’t it strange that there are treatments for deadly cancer but no “establishment approved” ones to treat this coronavirus. Oh but of course, there cannot be otherwise an emergency roll out of medical intervention would be against the law.

#88 Gammie McFairbain on 10.04.21 at 6:53 pm

Garth, Why should anyone commute when Trudeau raises Carbon Taxes and Oil is at $80? Save the planet and stay home! Save the oil and gas money!

#89 ImGonnaBeSick on 10.04.21 at 6:58 pm

We’ve always had some form of WFH, but we learned early on that WFH had to be salary, whereas field work has always been T&M. Most of the techs preferred our office for design work however, due to the amount of collaboration.

We’ve actually had less WFH the entire pandemic due to everyone and their brother retooling.

You can thank me for the UBI in 50 years…

****

I don’t understand the issue with anonymity. I didn’t start coming to this blog to meet friends or network. This isn’t a fantasy football league… I came for Mr. Turner’s insights and I’ve found several commenters that are worth reading.

#90 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 7:04 pm

Got our choc lab in December before the pandemic. He will be 2 later this month.
WFH is good for us to take walks at lunch. He likes squirrels, I like talking to dog moms or dads.. So far we are both mentally stable.

#91 Puzni on 10.04.21 at 7:05 pm

One question to ask : what will happen when employees realize that if the employer signs a form(T2200) they get to deduct the ” home office ” expenses and portion of utilities and mortgage payments. Yes there are certain conditions that must be met but for a lot of the WFH crowd for now its a win.

#92 The West on 10.04.21 at 7:11 pm

Garth,

You are missing the plot here. Work From Home, Work From an Office, Don’t Work….flip a coin. “Employed” (the serfs as it were – in an aptly titled blog from yesterday) people all across the western world have finally realized they have been had. There is no future. There is no buy in to society – there is no opportunity unless one was born into it. Compartmentalize, divide, clutch victim cards…whatever floats yer boat, the outcome is the same. COVID has been a massive wealth transfer from the poor to the rich and now the dead dream lays naked in the streets for all to see. Pay all the money to post secondary (the banks LOVE that) you want – there is no future anywhere in this country. Millenials are checking out and who can blame them? I know the “Bootstrap Boomers” will be on here about “back in our day blah blah blah” – its all yours, take it. You’ve made massive gains by drowning the future in debt that is no longer serviceable, let alone sustainable.

I have used the word “feudalism” in these halls of steerage far before yesterday’s entry – we have entered a world where everything has been centralized. Top down control is all that is left. The few own by divine right of birth and rest serf away, mired in poverty whether they have earned better, or not. Pay the man – the man owns you.

COVID was a clever play to consign us to our kennels. Social media has gone dark, it won’t stay that way (this time) but it is the next progression in the fight to quell resistance to the appalling mismanagement of our economy in the last fifty years. Where else will the can be kicked? Where else can we dump on the future to keep the zombie economy still standing? Who else can we dump obligation on? Where do we vote to change the outcome?

Atlas is Shrugging.

#93 Financial Freedom at Forty on 10.04.21 at 7:15 pm

I started WFH in 2014 when the Ontario govt got rid of full-time kindergarten. My high schooler (now) reminisces about going out to sushi lunch with mom between drop-off locations. It was either show up and endure back-to-back-to-back meetings, that could have been 3 short emails, and constant interruptions, or dial in to a conference bridge and take the call with me while getting 4 things done simultaneously at home. Avoided the C-suite’s walk-by briefings and fire-drill cubicle/hallway/elevator requests, they’d pick on whoever they could spot. Wasn’t looking to be promoted into my manager’s role so kept my head down, did the work and was present and available for 2 kids. In my 20/early 30s I hardly left the office, night or weekend, and was promoted annually to just shy of the Peter Principle. It’s a choice driven by a number of personal considerations. The mass exodus of talented females around 40 was apparent though (to part-time work or their side hustle)… and this was before Covid and kids learning online brought much back into stark relief…

#94 Sara on 10.04.21 at 7:19 pm

Several commenters ganging up acting like schoolyard bullies towards a single commenter who has more intelligence and empathy than all of them put together.

#95 Faron on 10.04.21 at 7:21 pm

I’ll leave this damning bit here for Millmech, Penny Henney, BillyBob, oops and my finest friend, ImGonnaBeSick-a

in reference to Millennial Realist in an unheated discussion about the olympics of all things

#75 ImGonnaBeSick on 08.02.21 at 5:44 pm

I’m pretty sure MR actually stands for the term which was recently replaced by “an individual with an intellectual disability”

It doesn’t at all excuse my choice of words Saturday, but I would love to hear exactly why this comment was okay with you fools… You are either drawn to my posts like flies to crap or read ImGonnaBeSick’s post, snickered and carried on. Neither is a good look given how little you “care” about what I say.

I’ll take the draw ImGonnaBeSchlick. I didn’t find any takes on Resi Schools and didn’t look for blockades and will assume you are being truthful in denying commenting on that issue. I apologize for that inference and, as I said, I landed on your side W/re Trudeau’s Tofino exploits. I will try to keep from escalating arguments from here on out.

Programming sure is handy some times. If you like, I’ll share my script with you. Great post sifter.

And, now I’ll proceed to work well into the night to compensate for time wasted. Totally worth it though. LOL.

#96 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 7:24 pm

Think gas is expensive now. Wait for the 15 cents carbon tax added on in the new year. Those taxes never come down.

#97 Proud CERBian on 10.04.21 at 7:24 pm

I am delighted to work from home. Mostly my work involves checking my bank account every week to confirm the government deposits.

Tedious, but worth the effort.

All hail, CERBia!

#98 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 7:26 pm

#60 Faron on 10.04.21 at 5:52 pm
#45 oops on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

take it offline.

———

Tried it. The Trogs just thought I was scamming them. They want their “good names” kept “clean” here and to be able to posture maximally.

———

Wrong. The truth is that nobody wants to engage with you on or off the blog, but people will respond when you insult them publicly on this site.

#99 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 7:31 pm

#91 Puzni on 10.04.21 at 7:05 pm
One question to ask : what will happen when employees realize that if the employer signs a form(T2200) they get to deduct the ” home office ” expenses and portion of utilities and mortgage payments. Yes there are certain conditions that must be met but for a lot of the WFH crowd for now its a win.
******
Better to just take the normal deduction, unless you spend about $20 grand on the new office retrofit in your home. Then you might be considered mentally unstable and get the disability amount deduction.

#100 Faron on 10.04.21 at 7:37 pm

#82 BillyBob on 10.04.21 at 6:32 pm

You may be surprised to learn that Facebook engineers don’t stick their fingers physically into the servers FB runs on to manipulate the bits. No matter where they are, they are networked in. It is funny that their ID cards also couldn’t work to authenticate so they were stuck without physical access to their own buildings. Amazing.

This hack was damn clever apparently. Cleared out the DNS entries for everything Facebook. This causes any and all devices trying to connect to Facebook (which your devices do continually through the day whether you are controlling it or not) to hit DNS servers at a rapid rate. Essentially harnessed all of Facebook’s users to DDoS internet traffic management against Facebook.

#101 Woke up this morning... on 10.04.21 at 7:41 pm

DELETED

#102 TurnerNation on 10.04.21 at 7:41 pm

What will become of the empty downtown towers?
Possibly rents will drop, become more affordable.
This will attract the smaller companies. Why settle for the distant burbs when your head office too could be at transit central – the downtown core.
And/or restaurants and the like.

Some hidden gems already atop the downtown towers:

Canoe Restaurant – Inspired by Canada’s Raw, Rich Land https://www.canoerestaurant.com
Canoe crafts inspired dishes reflective of our country’s diversity. Located high atop TD Bank Tower, Canoe affords a breathtaking view of Toronto.

Stratus Restaurant – Toronto https://www.stratusrestaurant.com
Stratus is conveniently located in the heart of Toronto’s vibrant downtown financial district. Visit us in the penthouse suite of the TD South Tower, the 36th …

….
…..
— USA: Crashing what’s left of the Old System. Large crowd.

LIVE: Teachers protest New York City’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate
Reuters – 1.25M subscribers
New York City teachers march across the Brooklyn Bridge to protest a mandate requirement for school teachers and staff to get the COVID-19 vaccine or face unpaid leave if they refuse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfi5jkakwU8

#103 Classical Liberal Millennial on 10.04.21 at 7:52 pm

Male and barely under 35 here. Currently hybrid WFH with no desire to be back in a soul-sucking office 5 days a week. I know this irks Garth but the heart wants what the heart wants!

#104 DON on 10.04.21 at 7:58 pm

#14 Mattl on 10.04.21 at 4:19 pm
(9) Should people opting for WFH be paid less?

—————————————————————–

Depending on where you WFH, you will be paid less today…. most large org’s today have pay grids that account for location of the employee. Live in Colorado, you make more then same job in Arkansas.

Outside of these types of adjustments, not sure what the employees costs have to do with their pay. Sure you save some money by working from home, but so does the employer. Those shiny buildings are expensive, employers are chomping at the bit to wind down lease agreements and downsize.

There isn’t a one size fits all here. For me, being able to hire WFH staff eliminates geographical limitations on talent acquisition. I get significantly better candidates casting a net that covers all the US States and Provinces as opposed to trying to place someone in Toronto, or Atlanta.

We travel for events, client meetings and team build that way. I don’t need to physically see them to know they are working.

And I’d take a top talent that wants to pick up his kids from school, or walk the dog over a mediocre talent that puts on a blue suit, commutes 100 minutes and makes it to his desk every day. The work needs to be high quality, and it needs to get done, how they get there is not that important to me.

It’s all about talent for me and good luck attracting the best and the brightest without flex work opportunities.

****
Nicely put!

#105 Woke up this morning... on 10.04.21 at 8:11 pm

#101 Woke up this morning… on 10.04.21 at 7:41 pm

DELETED

I’m over my quota! Time-out for rest of the week!

To be honest, you’ve been generous and I’ve been quite wordy last few days.

Let me get back to keeping the soul sucking creepy social media down. It’s me vs. all of the FaceBook geeks. So far, I’m winning. But it’s not easy.

See you next week!

#106 Sara on 10.04.21 at 8:14 pm

#98 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 7:26 pm
#60 Faron on 10.04.21 at 5:52 pm
#45 oops on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

take it offline.

———

Tried it. The Trogs just thought I was scamming them. They want their “good names” kept “clean” here and to be able to posture maximally.

———

Wrong. The truth is that nobody wants to engage with you on or off the blog, but people will respond when you insult them publicly on this site.

=================
That is priceless coming from SailAway, the King of insulters, trolls and bullies.

#107 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 8:14 pm

#103 Classical Liberal Millennial on 10.04.21 at 7:52 pm
Male and barely under 35 here. Currently hybrid WFH with no desire to be back in a soul-sucking office 5 days a week. I know this irks Garth but the heart wants what the heart wants!

*******

Your story breaks my heart.

Maybe move out of your mom’s creepy crawly centipede infested basement, and find a nice girl. Or find whatever gender you like. I don’t judge, just shake my head.

#108 Faron on 10.04.21 at 8:22 pm

#98 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 7:26 pm

So much for staying out of it, huh? You sure you want to do this? I’m happy to show you how misguided you are. I’ll be gentle. Promise.

Until then, go back to your calling. I’m certain you are a better human there than whiling away time on this comments section. This applies to everyone commenting here, myself included.

#109 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 8:25 pm

40 years after Alvin Toffler predicted the Electronic Cottage……

WFH

An article from Dec 30, 1980…..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1980/12/30/careers-life-inside-an-electronic-cottage/27955c38-2726-4c6b-ae11-d811521dac7b/

back in the early 80’s I always found Toffler’s predictions interesting but somewhat overly optimistic.

And no one was really talking about Global Warming….

#110 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 8:28 pm

@#100 Faron

“You may be surprised to learn that Facebook engineers don’t stick their fingers physically into the servers …

++++

Unfortunately they stick them somewhere ELSE the sun doesnt shine……..

#111 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 8:31 pm

@#94 Sara’s Sympathy
“Several commenters ganging up acting like schoolyard bullies towards a single commenter who has more intelligence and empathy than all of them put together.”

++++

Oh Sara….. I appreciate your empathy, but really, I can handle it…..

Does anyone have a good Vegan Turkey recipe?
My oven burnt the house down trying to cook the last deep fried Tofu-key and the recipe went up in flames with it!

#112 Faron on 10.04.21 at 8:37 pm

#110 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 8:28 pm

Unfortunately they stick them somewhere ELSE the sun doesnt shine……..

LOL. The Zuck always struck me as creepy. Look at the foundation of his company… A guy profiling unsuspecting women because he couldn’t land a date.

#113 Another Deckchair on 10.04.21 at 8:39 pm

@25 Nonplused

“I still do not imagine that work from home will have much impact on salaries… They pay the least they can to get the job done satisfactorily. Always did, always will.”

WFH full time is an equivalent to outsourcing. The WHFers can live anywhere. Would a company pay someone from (say) India the same as someone from (say) Halifax? I mean, both smart and hard working, but neither are in the office.

Flip it around and ask yourself, “why wouldn’t they??”

Then, using your words “They pay the least they can…”

Canadians have just “globalized” their living, and have to take the good with the bad.

#114 UmiouiuS on 10.04.21 at 8:41 pm

STORY:

In the early 2000’s, in a new-field of endevour for a major canuck corporation, I was in-part responsible for the recruiting, hiring and training of folks, west from Yonge Street to the left coast fringes of BC.

And altho’ these folks were hired to be employed by “The Company”, they were hired to work remotely from their homes.

And whenever I visited H.O., the regulars who attended their daily office environments there, would inevitably comment about “those lazy field folks that were home watching television all day in their pajamas.”

But to my and to many others surprise, we enjoyed terrific success with the program ..!!

And what we learned was:
1) that not everyone is cut out for a remote workplace. Some folks simply need the synergies of shared spaces.

2) that, many folks will excel at working remotely.

So we realized, that “who” you recruit matters and “how” you lead/support them, matters just as much.

Our management approaches changed once we realized you “cannot push string”. We changed our thinking:

we learned to ‘manage’ the under-performers, ‘coach’ the performers, and ‘consult’ with the over-performers.

I never enjoyed a better time in my career(s) and in retirement am in touch still, with many of these folks.

Of course, not every business model will work this way. But I suggest that more can, than many might realize.

Cheers .. best regards.

#115 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 8:42 pm

@#81 tremblant110
“A lot of repercussions from WFH. Just visited my barber today. Last time was at least 3-4 months ago. Used to visit every 6 weeks. Do not need a trim haircut if on Zoom. His business is still far from what it used to be. He is hurting!”

+++

Well he could try a “topless” barber shop.
Vancouver had one years ago called “Tiddly Winks”

Seems the gals running the shop made great money.
No naughty stuff allowed.
However.
The local news reported …..One day one of the gals gave a guy a whack up side his head because his hands under the barber shawl were a little “busy”

Seems when the confusion was over it turned out he was just polishing his….”glasses”

#116 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 8:47 pm

Facebook was off line today?

geez.
I’ll have to ask my secretary what she did for the other 50% of her workday.

#117 Cici on 10.04.21 at 8:48 pm

#3 SunShowers on 10.04.21 at 4:06 pm
The logical inverse of “people working from home should be paid less” is “we should have been paying people for their commutes this whole time, but haven’t been.”

I would absolutely take a pay raise in order to continue coming in to the office (sadly WFH was not an option for me), and I would be happy to discuss accommodative arrangements for the back pay I am owed for several years of commuting.
_____________________________________________

Oh really? Maybe you should take a step back from your entitlement and think about the possibility that commuting has been your CHOICE.

I humbly admit to having made that same CHOICE, knowing full well that that the price of gas could spike at any time and that I would be losing precious personal time on the road each and every day.

So, ask yourself this: should you really get reimbursed for gas for choosing to live further away from your workplace than some of your more conscientious colleagues who invested in more expensive real estate (condos or homes) closer to work?

Are you really that much more special than they are? And if you get reimbursed for gas, what’s to stop them from demanding a reimbursement for the price differential between their more expensive inner-city RE and your place in the burbs or sticks? Don’t forget that if that comes to pass, you’ll probably be paying for it in increased taxes.

I seriously lose faith in humanity every single day.

#118 Faron on 10.04.21 at 8:53 pm

#106 Sara on 10.04.21 at 8:14 pm
#98 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 7:26 pm
#60 Faron on 10.04.21 at 5:52 pm
#45 oops on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

That is priceless coming from SailAway, the King of insulters, trolls and bullies.

Yep. And more so because insults are the lingua franca of steerage. See #107 from Ballingsford. Wow.

Maybe Sail Away actually did discover his gentle, delicate side in the Chilcoten tip toeing through the atypical swamps with his canid pal? His E.Q. is through the roof apparently.

As I said, I’ll be gentle Sail Away. We can wear our loincloths and call it a spiritual journey. Maybe get some Ayahuasca?

#119 yvr_lurker on 10.04.21 at 8:55 pm

There will need to be a new equilibrium reached between employers and employees in industries where WFH would be an option. I expect that there will be more of a hybrid model, with the need to being onsite being reduced to a few times a week. However, some very conservative industries like banking and finance will resist WFH. IT industries will embrace it.

Whether pay “should” be reduced due to WFH, is irelevant. If the employee is still able to meet their job requirements in WFH, then the answer should be no. However, employers will use the WHF carrot to try to reduce wages across the board anyway (even if they get reductions on the infrastructure where employees used to work). However, employees with desired skills will resist and head to new environments where WFH with full pay is an option. All of this jockeying around will set a new equilibrium between employees and employers in many industries. I predict that workers will have much less loyalty to their employers if there is no flexibility.

However, other employers who refuse to allow WFH and choose to be inflexible (thereby having trouble attracting good talent in this brave new world) will instead cry the refrain of “there are no local workers!” and hire private marketers to lobby the Gov’t to further bloat immigration
numbers.

I don’t think it will return to normal, but it is hard to predict where everything settles.

For us, the new normal is to decrease costs in restaurants, avoid needless consumer spending, only using contractors when you can’t possibly do the job yourself. In the past month have needed the vaccine passport exactly once. Have a home gym I made in the shed in the summer of 2020, so no need for a fitness membership. As long as the trails are open for hiking and dog walking, the beaches are sill okay, and the ski hills open in the winter, that will largely be enough.

#120 Shawn Allen on 10.04.21 at 8:58 pm

Where Will Green Energy be produced

#20 R on 10.04.21 at 4:33 pm
For about $ 2 Trillion , a renewable solar farm about 200 mi X 200mi in Arizona ,along with suitable battery management ,can be built that will replace all coal and oil & gas electrical utilities in the USA. If it is increased by about 50%, all ground transportation energy needs can be covered with Battery Electric cars and trucks. I would pull the Oil & Gas/Coal plug in a heart beat.

**************************
Well we will see about how oil does. I imagine Arizona has a big competitive advantage over Alberta when it comes to solar energy. Some think Alberta can transition to wind and solar energy and export that. Laughable — Alberta is too far from population centers that need electricity and there are almost no transmission lines east or south out of the province. There are transmission lines to the west – mostly used to bring in cheap hydro power from B.C. Alberta can generate some wind and solar for use in the province but that will never bring in the outside money to pay the bills like oil does. (Alberta imports many things and needs exports to pay for it)

Us Albertans better pray $100 Canadian oil stays around a while.

#121 Niagara Region on 10.04.21 at 9:16 pm

Great coverage of the Pandora Papers:
https://www.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/global-investigation-tax-havens-offshore/
Some of the hidden (sometimes laundered) money was used to buy real estate in various countries.

#122 Phylis on 10.04.21 at 9:18 pm

Another peg pulled out of the jenga tower.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-04/fantasia-holdings-skips-bond-payment-due-monday-on-2021-notes

#123 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 9:29 pm

Forget all the crazy comments here. Broaden your mind and think that the insects will eventually rule the world.

Think or research it.

#124 Sara on 10.04.21 at 9:35 pm

#111 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 8:31 pm

Oh Sara….

=================
Eww. Have I “roused” you again?

#125 tbone on 10.04.21 at 9:37 pm

# 33 Stone
#67 Penny

21.86 % in my undiversified and unbalanced account .
I have a balanced account also .

I live off the dividends from the undiversified account .
Retired just under 2 years ago from my WFH sales job.

Best back to back years ever these last couple of years.

#126 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.04.21 at 9:39 pm

@#112 Faron
“LOL. The Zuck always struck me as creepy. Look at the foundation of his company… A guy profiling unsuspecting women because he couldn’t land a date”

++++

Nerds helping Nerds.
Kinda like this blog.
Sadly we’re not billionaires.

#127 steve schmelzle on 10.04.21 at 9:46 pm

my employer never asked me if my costs to commute were increasing…not even when we moved buildings.

why would I take a lower pay when my costs decreased?

the best talent will be able to choose where they want to work.

forever.

#128 THE DANDADA on 10.04.21 at 9:46 pm

So, are you ever going back?

(1) Are you currently:

Working in my normal workplace, I was WFH for a few months. We stay in office now and use zoom to communicate as much as possible.

(2) Has your employer set a date to return to the workplace?

Yes – All have returned with social distance, and mask mandates in place.

(3) Do you intend to return as requested?

I don’t think anyone had an option.

(4) In your experience during WFH:

Once the proper set-up is in place I was more productive at home.

(5) Do you think Covid has changed the nature of work?

No – employers and employees will adapt and revert to old models.

(6) Do you miss the atmosphere and connections of work?

Nope

(7) What do you value most about WFH?

Avoiding all the time and expenses wasted travelling back and forth to work. Add that up over a lifetime. What could you rather be doing and using those funds for?

(8) Should employees be offered a choice between WFH and WFW?

Absolutely – It will soon be the norm.

(9) Should people opting for WFH be paid less?

No way, they still do the work.

(10) How long do you think the Covid crisis will last?

Globally another 3 years.

11) Are you vaccinated?

Yes, two shots

#129 Ballingsford on 10.04.21 at 9:54 pm

#118 Faron on 10.04.21 at 8:53 pm
#106 Sara on 10.04.21 at 8:14 pm
#98 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 7:26 pm
#60 Faron on 10.04.21 at 5:52 pm
#45 oops on 10.04.21 at 5:21 pm

That is priceless coming from SailAway, the King of insulters, trolls and bullies.

Yep. And more so because insults are the lingua franca of steerage. See #107 from Ballingsford. Wow

****
No insults intended, just saying everyone can live their own life. I’m in a community where everything goes it seems. Really, I dont care what people’s preferences are as long as they leave me alone.
I’ll talk to them though.

#130 Mehling on 10.04.21 at 9:54 pm

Ken Griffin Sees Young People Making ‘Grave Mistake’ Working at Home

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ken-griffin-sees-young-people-making-grave-mistake-working-at-home-1.1661663

Same comments months ago from the CEOs of Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan. Google it.

The smart kids will figure it out.

Of course someone in the office will be promoted over the one working from home; all else equal (quality of work, etc).

#131 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 9:55 pm

#106 Sara on 10.04.21 at 8:14 pm

That is priceless coming from SailAway, the King of insulters, trolls and bullies.

——–

Aw, shucks. King may be a bit effusive.

You have my permission to share a few historical gems if you like. My only request is that you mention my wealth next time.
Thanks!

#132 Doug t on 10.04.21 at 10:00 pm

So what about factory jobs – in the 80’s I worked in several including 6 years at GM in St. Catharines – you can’t WFH in a physical production plant but then again we pretty much gave those jobs away with “Free” Trade

#133 Don Guillermo on 10.04.21 at 10:09 pm

#55 Dave on 10.04.21 at 5:44 pm
“Let’s not forget our wonderful fellow Canadians that were giggling and laughing at Alberta while joking about who would turn out the lights in April/May of 2020. I know I won’t. Ever.”
——-

Now they are shouting and crying at the incompetent sociopath premier for his ineptitude in managing the pandemic.
*********************************

Nice side swipe. No one was calling Legault a sociopath when the seniors were dying in Quebec last year. Why are you going there? Bad situation in Alberta but nothing do do with the price of oil. Why the hate? Maybe your turn will come. I hope not.

#134 canuck on 10.04.21 at 10:11 pm

“Almost four in ten swear if they’re forced to trundle back into the office that they’ll seek other employment. ”

Until their bills pile up or creditors start calling. WFH can leave just quickly s it came in and there is someone always ready to eat your lunch… like companies in India that can provide the same remote service for a fraction of the cost.
For many, WFH is career limiting. Those at the office will have the boss’s ear much more than your biweekly zoom or teams meeting input that won’t last 5 minutes.

#135 Mike W on 10.04.21 at 10:15 pm

I’ve been mandated perm WFH — Had to choose 100% one or the other.

#136 meslippery on 10.04.21 at 10:27 pm

#131 Doug t on 10.04.21 at 10:00 pm

So what about factory jobs – in the 80’s I worked in several including 6 years at GM in St. Catharines – you can’t WFH in a physical production plant but then again we pretty much gave those jobs away with “Free” Trade
—————

Yes… and think about this Dentists may not be safe from free trade. The cruise ships that are no longer used for holidays can be docked and filled with overseas dentists working for peanuts. How can we compete with free trade ?

#137 Doug in London on 10.04.21 at 10:45 pm

I suspect vaccine hesitancy is a contributing factor to this extension of WFH. If the vaccination rate was 90% or higher, we would have herd immunity and the virus would die out. That’s not happening, so don’t abandon your home office yet.

#138 Linda on 10.04.21 at 10:51 pm

What is this meme about Boomers ‘drowning the future in debt’? Trudeau is not a Boomer. Those borrowing massive $ from the Bank of Mom or just ‘the bank’ to purchase RE are in general not Boomers. Blame the Boomers is not facing reality here. Did ‘the Boomers’ force anyone to borrow massive amounts of $ at gunpoint? Did they force anyone to bully bid or offer over asking? A rather substantial percentage of Boomers are retirees by now. So they weren’t in line for CERB, though any who were age 65+ should have received that ‘one time’ payment of $300. So don’t really get how the Boomers are to blame for the current fiscal mess here.

#139 Trudi Woods on 10.04.21 at 10:57 pm

I never found the underground retail sector busy…ever…even the Golden days… with the exception
of the food courts…I always wondered how those retail folks could make rent…now…more wise I think I know how these things work…big empty space will fill up with expensive stuff yet again…so glad to be living outside the big smoke at this point in time

#140 Nonplused on 10.04.21 at 11:07 pm

#113 Another Deckchair on 10.04.21 at 8:39 pm
@25 Nonplused

“I still do not imagine that work from home will have much impact on salaries… They pay the least they can to get the job done satisfactorily. Always did, always will.”

WFH full time is an equivalent to outsourcing. The WHFers can live anywhere. Would a company pay someone from (say) India the same as someone from (say) Halifax? I mean, both smart and hard working, but neither are in the office.

Flip it around and ask yourself, “why wouldn’t they??”

Then, using your words “They pay the least they can…”

Canadians have just “globalized” their living, and have to take the good with the bad.

————————————

That is a common refrain, all the jobs will go to India. But they’ve been trying that for years and it hasn’t worked out so well. It works for some things but not for all. And factory jobs have proven even less resilient than office jobs so far.

#141 Garth's Son Drake on 10.04.21 at 11:23 pm

There are currently 27,641 work from home jobs in Canada listed on Indeed.

Anyone who knows how to work a simple phone can work from home.

Tons of great work from home opportunities.

I will never be returning to any office every again.

Having a wall of computer screens inside my house allows me to work and day trade at the same time.

Someone once told me: you need to have multiple income streams and now I do.

I created my own pay raise.

#142 This is Real on 10.04.21 at 11:31 pm

“We were advised to bid a couple of hundred thousand over list, and we just went a little bit over just because we wanted to get that property … under the assumption that there were two other registered offers.”

Park later learned, through the listing agent, that there were actually no other offers.

#143 Faron on 10.04.21 at 11:57 pm

#135 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 10:13 am

Tesla still pulls off record third-quarter deliveries: racist garbage befitting a silver spoon Saffa:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/10/04/tesla-discrimination-case/

But hey, they post profits (smaller than automakers ⅒ their market cap) so all good, right?

#144 Albertaguy in AB on 10.05.21 at 12:39 am

Boss: Ok, good news and bad news, bad news is because of covid everyone has to take a 20% paycut, good news is everyone that comes into the office gets a 20% commuting bonus.

M47BC…dont get wifey mad, she’ll put one item of yours in the toilet

#145 Dr V on 10.05.21 at 2:04 am

131 Doug

Yes times have changed. Here’s a hypothetical for you.
Let’s say you have a plant making widgets. 100 workers including supers and admin. Good paying jobs.

Corp HQ says cant compete with offshore competitors so they take their 100 jobs overseas where wages are crazy cheap.

Canadian entrepreneur says “Huh? I can produce the same number of widgets with 10 employees, maybe even less. Jobs will be good paying because all menial tasks will be automated”. And now the jobs could have a WFH component.

Do we want the plant back under those conditions?

Now the tricky part. Should we have just done the automation BEFORE the plant went overseas?

#146 Bileth on 10.05.21 at 3:20 am

I submitted a response but boy are these surveys designed poorly. Read an article or two on effective study design.

WFH works for some. Doesn’t work for others. It’s up to supervisors to evaluate their staff and communicate effectively. Ultimately, flexibility is important. We should work to live, not live to work.

I am the leader of a hybrid team and my staff enjoy coming in and maintaining a presence and relationships, as well as instant collaboration. They also value not having to go through all of the steps to get ready for a work day 5 days a week. There’s a balance that I think is healthy for North Americans to embrace. I’ve learned a lot as a leader and manager during this time.

#147 Ron on 10.05.21 at 5:51 am

I can’t answer all the questions since I never worked from home but still like to participate.

1) Work from work throughout the pandemic (essential worker)
2) yes for those in the company who could work from home
3) N/A
4) N/A
5) yes probably will be more hybrid models from now on
6) N/A
7) no experience but not having to commute would be nice
8) Employers choice but will be offered far more than pre-covid
9) Yes
10) Crisis will last at least six months and will end but covid will always be around
11) Yes 2 shots

I wanted to mention one other interesting phenomenon I’ve noticed. Before covid morning rush hour into Toronto from the east was terrible, but not bad at all on night shifts (except Sunday nights in the summer when everyone was driving home from the cottage).
Covid got rid of rush hour traffic for awhile but it slowly returned. Since this past summer morning rush hour is almost as bad as pre-covid despite the continuing WFH, but now there is a rush hour into Toronto at night too and it’s at least as bad as the morning rush hour. I don’t know the exact reasons why this is happening but have no doubt it’s all related to covid

#148 Wrk.dover on 10.05.21 at 6:54 am

#70 mark on 10.04.21 at 6:09 pm
Where’d that money go? Here’s one, Liverpool, Nova Scotia. Listed in 2013, took 4 years to sell. Finally went for $115k in 2017. There has been no updates done since then, same cracks in the ceiling. Sold this August for $399k in 10 days.
——————————————————

Similar with all the RE.

I’m noticing courier trucks covered in mud.
The Ontario Amazon shoppers are even buying the dirt road poor people RE. For lots of $$$.

M68NS

#149 KLNR on 10.05.21 at 7:09 am

@#133 canuck on 10.04.21 at 10:11 pm
“Almost four in ten swear if they’re forced to trundle back into the office that they’ll seek other employment. ”

Until their bills pile up or creditors start calling. WFH can leave just quickly s it came in and there is someone always ready to eat your lunch… like companies in India that can provide the same remote service for a fraction of the cost.
For many, WFH is career limiting. Those at the office will have the boss’s ear much more than your biweekly zoom or teams meeting input that won’t last 5 minutes.

skilled labour has no worries about India taking their jobs. you work for a call centre or push paper then maybe worry a little.
as for not having the bosses ear, even they are WFH now.

#150 Do we have all the facts on 10.05.21 at 7:20 am

Seventy years ago the central cores of major North American cities contained as many as five large department stores. As their customers moved to the suburbs the majority of major retailers responded by constructing smaller stores in suburban locations.

The first regional shopping centres were opened in the 1950’s and by the 1970’s the central cores of every North American city were surrounded by large enclosed shopping centres containing two or more large retailers as anchor tenants.

Then in the 1990’s large sector specific retailers who had originally established smaller stores in regional shopping centres were encouraged to establish larger stores in ‘big box’ plazas.

Ten years ago an increasing share of retail sales were being made in large free standing stores operated by a handful of major firms such as Walmart, Home Depot, Costco, Canadian Tire, Shoppers Drug Mart, etc

Today an increasing share of all retail sales are made on line with delivery direct to the purchasers home.

My point is that the quest to obtain goods at the lowest possible cost had consequences that no one could have predicted in the 1950’s. It seems logical that the current quest for increased profits supported by technological advances might result in substantial changes in current working environments.

Companies that fail to respond to a changing environment are often left on the cutting room floor. Virtual office environments have the potential to improve profitability and the quest for increased profitability will definitely result in future changes.

Failing to understand the forces behind a changing environment usually ends in tears. Clinging to historical workplace paradigms in a profit driven world does not seem prudent.

#151 Another Deckchair on 10.05.21 at 7:42 am

@139 Nonplused

“That is a common refrain, all the jobs will go to India… It works for some things but not for all…”

Sure, agree, not all jobs. The “Rock Stars” will stay, but, what, 80% of office jobs are repetitive and boring? These ones are prime to move to lower cost locales.

If one reads comments here, those who tag themselves as “Rock Stars” say that things are great here, WFH is fine, etc, and IT IS. But not for all.

Give it a decade, and we’ll look back and say, “COVID really changed things” but in reality, it will be us who allowed change to happen.

#152 My Body My Choice on 10.05.21 at 8:03 am

“The office vacancy rate in the GTA in early 2020 was 2%. At the moment it’s 13.7%. That’s a devastating number, worse than Vancouver (now at 7%) but far better than poor Calgary (33%). Across Canada, 16% of commercial space is currently vacant. Not empty – the desks, chairs, printers, glass partitions, board rooms, coffee mugs and computer monitors are still sitting there – just vacant.”

Just convert everything to condos. Real Estate and printing money is Canada’s economic future.

Silver Surfer Trudeau wants to shut down oil and gas, Greens want to shut down all logging, mining. Thousands of Chinese trawler ships are vacuuming up the ocean’s fisheries. Majority of manufacturing has been outsourced to Mexico, China, India etc. Big banks, telco and other major customer service has been outsourced to Phillipines, India. Canadians are paid to stay at home and collect govt. cheques.

Once the Silver Surfer and deputy PM Jag are finished with their “bold” vision for the future of Canada, what will be left?

Accomodating more and more of the world’s refugees, finding them a place to live, so banking, financing, insurance, construction, renovation, power generation, food and cannabis production will be Canada’s GDP future. Retail, restaurant, bars and society as we know it are being thrown under the bus in the name of safety. Just keep printing more money to the moon, build more condos, convert all vacant retail/restaurant to condos, finance it all with endless govt. debt.

Resistance is useless. Take your shots and STFU. The shortages will continue until morale improves. The future is friendly.

#153 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.05.21 at 8:08 am

@@138 Linda
“So don’t really get how the Boomers are to blame for the current fiscal mess here.”

+++

We left the cap off the ketchup bottle…

#154 B on 10.05.21 at 8:11 am

I feel that people WFH should be paid more actually, at least in my line of engineering consulting! Less overhead for the employer, which is now being paid by me through the need to dedicate a space in my home to an office.

I’m more productive at home, and most of the 1.5 hours worth of commuting I used to do ends up being spent on work anyways so they get more value out of me too.

Having experienced WFH, I now really resent the idea that I’d have to go back to commuting just to keep my coworkers company. If they are so lonely, then they should get a social life. Im very busy with a young family, and Im employed there to work and make money, not to be my coworkers friends.

#155 Sunshowers on 10.05.21 at 8:12 am

#117 Cici on 10.04.21 at 8:48 pm
“So, ask yourself this: should you really get reimbursed for gas for choosing to live further away from your workplace than some of your more conscientious colleagues who invested in more expensive real estate (condos or homes) closer to work?”

No… For the same reason people shouldn’t have their pay cut because they’re working from home (and saving their employer money by doing so!) Congrats on missing the point of my post, I guess.

You know, maybe you’d have more faith in humanity if you understood concepts like sarcasm and hypothetical situations better.

#156 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.05.21 at 8:24 am

Should be interesting watching Dictator Xi Jinping ( Winnie the Pooh) demand that the home grown capitalist markets “fix” themselves…

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-property-sector-woes-deepen-markets-await-evergrande-deal-2021-10-05/

Hundreds of millions of Middle class losing everything in a corrupt ponzi scheme.

Perhaps they can use the military troops that they hoped to send to Taiwan to quell the looming protests at home…..

#157 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.05.21 at 8:41 am

Another Human “rights” Kangaroo Court sentence is handed down.

https://nationalpost.com/news/fired-worker-awarded-30k-after-restaurant-co-worker-used-wrong-pronouns/wcm/0d60299b-3efc-4a16-a144-8b5b04f37757

This is Canada and this is what keeps us busy…

#158 the Jaguar on 10.05.21 at 8:44 am

Snippets…………..

Chip shortage impacts auto manufacturers:

“When the shortage began, about 70 per cent of all automotive microcontroller chips were manufactured by Taiwan-based TSMC, according to IHS Markit, putting almost all the industry’s eggs in one basket. Their “just-in-time” business model meant automakers kept little in the way of stockpiles.

It’s a global economic story, but in Ontario’s auto towns it’s a local one.“When Windsor Assembly Plant is not running, the town is a ghost town.” This year, the factory floor has been all but silent for 26 weeks — that’s 3.7 million wouldbe working seconds for which each employee hasn’t known when their next paycheque will come. Another Stellantis plant, in Brampton, Ont., has been idle for 11 weeks. General Motors said its plant in Ingersoll, Ont., has been “largely” down since February (as of September, many union workers there reported having worked just three weeks this year.) +++++++

Line 5 news:
Ottawa formally invoked the 1977 Transit Pipelines Treaty on Monday, initiating a dispute-resolution process contained in the agreement that sets up direct talks with Washington over the pipeline, which carries 540,000 barrels of oil per day from Alberta, through Michigan, to southern Ontario refineries.

Calgary-based Enbridge Inc., which owns Line 5 and is North America’s largest pipeline company, has been fighting Michigan in federal court over the pipeline. Last month, court-ordered mediation between the two sides broke down. ++++++

Coco and Pip appear to be those old fashioned kind of shepherds. Before the breeding for certain traits started. I might like to spend the day on a beach walk with them…

#159 Do we have all the facts on 10.05.21 at 9:11 am

One last thought. Covid 19 social distancing requirements increased the average office space requirements in 2020 from 150 sq. ft./ employee to 195sq.ft./ employee. In Downtown Toronto this increased the average office space rental cost per employee by almost $20,000/year. Many employers responded be reducing the space designated for meeting rooms and other common areas.

In August 2021 there were over 91,000,000 sq. ft. of leasable office space in downtown Toronto with another 9,000,000 sq.ft.+ under construction. Of this total 10% or approximately 9,000,000 sq.ft. was not leased.

The uncertainty over future viral infections has forced many employers to sharpen their pencils. The average cost of providing each employee in a downtown Toronto office building with adequate space under 2020 virus protection guidelines will exceed $80,000 per year.

For a company like CIBC with 15,000 employees in the Toronto area viral protection guidelines have had a significant impact. One can assume that serious consideration is being given to a reduction in future office space requirements in prestige locations.

All indicators point to a permanent increase in the number of employees working from home or in less expensive locations.

#160 Dharma Bum on 10.05.21 at 9:24 am

#39 Flop

I don’t like it when my wife puts her toothbrush up against mine in the toothbrush jar.
—————————————————————————————-

Hey man, it’s time you got an electric toothbrush.

Going electric in the oral hygiene department is more urgent that going electric in the automobile department. Cheaper, and always easier to charge too.

When we renovated the bathroom, I made sure that we installed 2 electrical outlets – one at opposite ends off the vanity – so each toothbrush could be plugged in on our respective sides.

No toothbrush mixups or touching.

Now that’s living.

#161 ImGonnaBeSick on 10.05.21 at 9:31 am

#158 the Jaguar on 10.05.21 at 8:44 am

Yes, however, we’ve completely retooled GM Oshawa during this time, and CAMI is next.

#162 Dharma Bum on 10.05.21 at 9:39 am

COVID was and still is the biggest blessing for “workers” who have decent jobs – anything to do with finance, IT, sales, corporate management, or pencil pushing/keyboard clicking bureaucracy of any sort.

The discovery that these jobs could be done from home created an atmosphere of permanent vacation for these types of employees. Their efficiency at best, dring normal times (i.e., pre-COVID) was, at best 40%. Most of the time in the office was spent drinking coffee, going to the bathroom, surfing the internet, sending useless emails, talking on personal phone calls, gossiping with co-workers, having lunch, shuffling papers, staring into space, doodling, writing memos, sleeping in meetings with eyes wide shut, and shredding. In fact, most people who work in offices, in any given week, probably do about 15 minutes of real, actual work. So, they may as well just stay home. At least can watch daytime TV, do laundry, walk the dog, cut the grass, water the flowers, cook, take a shower, vacuum the rug, and clean the garage – while working from home, of course.
Life has never been better for office workers since COVID hit. They pray, every day, that it keeps going. It’s true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfTrjPSShs

#163 Dharma Bum on 10.05.21 at 9:49 am

#150 Do we have all the facts?

Failing to understand the forces behind a changing environment usually ends in tears. Clinging to historical workplace paradigms in a profit driven world does not seem prudent.
————————————————————————————

True. Some people still really miss their anvils.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs5WBTAzo6s

#164 the jaguar on 10.05.21 at 9:58 am

@153 CEF & 138 Linda
It’s about entitlement and what follows when that doesn’t make its expected appearance. The ‘Blame Game’. The frustration stems from the Boomers saying they won’t play the game. It’s for losers not winners.

#165 Yuus bin Haad on 10.05.21 at 10:08 am

The only thing the virus wrought was for people to lose their minds.

#166 cramar on 10.05.21 at 10:12 am

Question 7 is flawed! “(7) What do you value most about WFH?”

The answer, “No commenting time” is not an available option, and could be the most important for some people.

#167 Jesse on 10.05.21 at 10:35 am

Well, Trudeau’s Censoring the internet, he told the masses he would do this on the campaign trail (Bill C-10) and we voted him back in.

Canada will be adopting Chinese style internet censorship (most comments here will be removed lol). I’m convinced Canadians are the dumbest voters on the planet.

#168 Justin on 10.05.21 at 10:59 am

I think your survey left out the biggest motivator for WFH: no commute. Even if your commute is only 30 minutes, which is common even if you live in the same town as your job, that’s an hour a day, 5 hours a week, 260 hours a year–almost 11 full days–of needless aggrevation, all to go to a place where you do the exactly the same stuff you’ve clearly proven you can do at home.

#169 Michael in-north-york on 10.05.21 at 11:01 am

A number of good arguments can be made for working in the office. Securing the revenue streams for the downtown real estate holdings is not one of them :)

As the life changes, private businesses have to adapt. Those who can’t adapt, go out of business.

WFH has its advantages for the employers: saving on the office rent, and the society as a whole: a lesser commuter volume.

I don’t expect everyone staying in the WFH mode forever, rather we will see a range of solutions. Some employers will pull everyone back into the office, or design penalties for those employees who want to WFH. Some will fully endorse WFH and save on the rent. And great many will be in-between: set 2 or 3 days a week as in-office mandatory, and let people WFH for the rest of week if they wish so.

#170 Yukon Elvis on 10.05.21 at 11:10 am

#143 Faron on 10.04.21 at 11:57 pm
#135 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 10:13 am

Tesla still pulls off record third-quarter deliveries: racist garbage befitting a silver spoon Saffa:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/10/04/tesla-discrimination-case/

But hey, they post profits (smaller than automakers ⅒ their market cap) so all good, right?
++++++++++++++++++++

Awarded by a woke jury in San Francisco. Will be reduced or overturned on appeal.

#171 millmech on 10.05.21 at 11:17 am

Interesting information on how to run a portfolio.
https://cutthecrapinvesting.com/2021/05/22/the-beat-the-tsx-portfolio-can-it-do-it-again/

#172 Diamond Dog on 10.05.21 at 11:29 am

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/debt-ceiling-us-faces-recession-if-congress-doesnt-act.html

Off topic, but this is the second or third time Yellen has publicly talked about the consequences of not raising the debt ceiling. She’s calling not raising the debt ceiling a manufactured crisis, irresponsible. It should be in her words, “bipartisan and routine”.

The problem is that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has said that no Republican would support raising the debt ceiling since mid July and the Senate is a 50/50 split. While there is no historical precedent for such a monumental gaffe, Janet looks worried.

#173 Mehling on 10.05.21 at 11:33 am

#167

“I’m convinced Canadians are the dumbest voters on the planet.”

The issue is millions of people addicted to the CERB and a large portion of the Canadian population works for the govt in some capacity (gold plated pensions, WFH etc).

They are loving the handouts at taxpayer expense.

And they control the votes.

Watch them extend CERB past Oct 23rd.

#174 mayyam on 10.05.21 at 11:40 am

Flexibility will be crucial for employers to attract and retain talent. If anyone has any job openings right now they understand how hard it is to fill positions. You are now searching and competing globally which is a curse and blessing all at the same time. I personally believe hybrid models help managers accommodate both types of workers (I hate the office! and I love the office!) and get the best out of everyone. Yeah, it’s work, but that’s what they pay you the money for.

#175 NEVER GIVE UP on 10.05.21 at 12:04 pm

Japan has no zoning laws in the cities.
You can open your business in any neighborhood. Of course you cannot do heavy industry near homes but you can operate a print shop, or manufacturing business if it is quiet enough. This is what makes Japanese cities far more livable than North American cities. People can walk to work or take Public transit everywhere.

I have worked from home nearly all my life. It has its cons, though. You are more isolated so you have to seek connections with humans elsewhere. It has enabled me to live an unusual life raising a large family. Something most people with the current infrastructure could not do.

You have to get along with your wife. That would be unusual for many. Being an importer required me to travel extensively. maybe that is what made it work well as you do need an occasional break from the Chaos of home life mixed with work.

It is not for everyone, but it worked for me.
After living in various Oriental cities in the early 80’s I came to admire many of the differences. One of them being the WFH culture that exists today. I view this as one of the takeaways of travelling the world.

I also admire the excellent City Structure of European cities. Walkable and filled with small businesses. Not having Ubiquitous Wallmart’s and Costco’s Vacuuming up all the sales from small businesses and hollowing the downtown cores like we do in North America.

In NA if you don’t drive or if you are elderly you are disenfranchised. You are condemned to vapid neighborhoods void of interesting shops and human activity.

People only need to go to other countries to see what we are missing here. The suburban experiment is a failure but also a habit that is hard to break.

#176 Faron on 10.05.21 at 12:07 pm

#170 Yukon Elvis on 10.05.21 at 11:10 am
#143 Faron on 10.04.21 at 11:57 pm
#135 Sail Away on 10.04.21 at 10:13 am

Awarded by a woke jury in San Francisco. Will be reduced or overturned on appeal.

Not at all surprising that you see racism as a “woke” principles. Pretty soon the wokeists will be coming after your SE Asian comfort women. Must be frustrating to see your world shrink before your eyes.

#177 Sail Away on 10.05.21 at 12:14 pm

My engineering firm has been WFW throughout nearly the entire Covid exercise.

We did a short period with VPN and optional WFH but returned to the office when we found it inefficient for our engineers in training. Similar to doctors’ residencies, much of civil engineer training needs to be hands on site visits, inspections, sampling, etc.

Much better in office. Most staff commutes are less than 10 minutes in our small town…

#178 Nonplused on 10.05.21 at 12:24 pm

#157 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.05.21 at 8:41 am
Another Human “rights” Kangaroo Court sentence is handed down.

https://nationalpost.com/news/fired-worker-awarded-30k-after-restaurant-co-worker-used-wrong-pronouns/wcm/0d60299b-3efc-4a16-a144-8b5b04f37757

This is Canada and this is what keeps us busy…

————————————–

As if business owners didn’t have enough to worry about….

#179 Barb on 10.05.21 at 12:35 pm

Rumour around Canadian Border Services staff is that land border will open Nov. 21st.
Yay…but a month too late for good interior roads to head south.

#180 IHCTD9 on 10.05.21 at 12:37 pm

#168 Justin on 10.05.21 at 10:59 am
I think your survey left out the biggest motivator for WFH: no commute. Even if your commute is only 30 minutes, which is common even if you live in the same town as your job, that’s an hour a day, 5 hours a week, 260 hours a year–almost 11 full days–of needless aggrevation, all to go to a place where you do the exactly the same stuff you’ve clearly proven you can do at home.
___

In Canada, where the “good” jobs are; workers get two choices. Pay outrageous amounts of $$ to live near the workplace, or do a multi-hour round trip commute to where they can afford to own a roof.

If current WFH’ers are smart, they’ll get out the calculator and figure out how much of a discount they can give to their employers to have WFH continue. If their office is located in a place like the GTA – any other way they slice it – they lose.

My post a few days back on the condition of the 401 was no joke, and we all know what it takes to buy a bottom-end sfd in the gta thanks to IT-Dude from yesterday. In my 500 person hamlet, a bland, dated high ranch on an acre now goes for over 600K – something that a WFH escapee would have paid 350K for in early 2020. Those days are gone like warm summer afternoon. If you got in beforehand – understand the opportunity is over – head East another hour if you want to repeat.

#181 Triplenet on 10.05.21 at 12:39 pm

#13
Survey questions;
Rene Levesque from Quebec wanted to take a survey years ago.
“I know the bloody answer – what is the bloody question?”

Flop;
You still use a toothbrush?

#182 Yama on 10.05.21 at 12:54 pm

NEVER GIVE UP, you did not mention what you think of the disaster of monetary policy and the low to lower, to ultra low to some negative interest rates policy.

I though Japan was a people of high savers, high savings rate. What do they think of even 1% to 1.5% inflation, Japan is pretty expensive so like all governments, organizations around world mislead and still mislead on real, cost of living inflation and such terrible Japanese interest rates on savings, bank deposits, government bonds? It looks like a hammer hit on the responsible and prudent, future looking people.

#183 Shortymac on 10.05.21 at 1:02 pm

I’m one of the WFH converts.

I think one item you are missing from your survey is the cost and time savings WFH offers, especially for young families.

Massive amounts of money and time has been saved on childcare, commuting, etc with WFH it’s no suprise that most women and young people would want to keep it up.

There is also an upside for employers, I’m more than willing to stay longer and work because I don’t have to worry about my commute, picking up kids from school/daycare on time, household chores, etc. I’m significantly more productive, happier, and healthier employee overall as WFH removes these stressors and can devote more time to my work goals.

Right now I’m trying to neogotiate with my workplace to allow me to continue WFH fulltime, however, in return I can come back from mat leave significantly earlier (4 months).

It makes 0 economic sense for me to come back from mat leave early otherwise due to the cost of daycare for an under-1 year old would easily be 1900/mon, so I’d be making the same in EI as I would at work.

If my workplace agrees, they could avoid hiring another individual to cover my position for a year, plus the costs of training that individual, etc as my duties could be covered by the teammates for a few months but not a full year. My management team is dithering on the matter but we will see.

#184 Dragonfly 58 on 10.05.21 at 1:14 pm

Are there really that many office jobs in Canada. Must be a reflection of my place in the socioeconomic pecking order, but 99% of the people in my family and friend circle have jobs that involve doing things at a workplace. Trades, Healthcare and Teaching for the most part. Wife moved into Healthcare Management during COVID, but even that involved a lot of site visits. A big part of her job was getting all the various shelters and privately run care homes in step with what it takes to protect staff and clients from COVID. Most of the shelters rely heavily on volunteer staff, generally with no previous medical training. So bring many facility’s and large numbers of staff up to speed regarding the measures to limit Covid spread. Massive job and she is now grabbing early retirement. B.C. government picked a very poor time to monkey with the Nurses pension plan. A good number of the Nurses in her general age group are taking the bird in the hand of early retirement. Lots of Nursing work out there. She has already had a number of double dipping scenarios proposed to her by higher up Managers.
The world runs on people actually doing things with things, not pushing paper. My world at least.

#185 Faron on 10.05.21 at 1:20 pm

#178 Nonplused on 10.05.21 at 12:24 pm

#157 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.05.21 at 8:41 am
Another Human “rights” Kangaroo Court sentence is handed down.

https://nationalpost.com/news/fired-worker-awarded-30k-after-restaurant-co-worker-used-wrong-pronouns/wcm/0d60299b-3efc-4a16-a144-8b5b04f37757

This is Canada and this is what keeps us busy…

————————————–

As if business owners didn’t have enough to worry about….

Wow guys. Read your article. Think of it this way: if you worked there and a bar tender insisted on calling you babe, pinky, honey etc, you would be right pissed. In this case, because you were pissed and there was conflict you were fired, not the bartender, you. That’s garbage. $30k of lost wages is a fair judgement.

I love that the NP trolls out this red meat for it’s conservative readers who they know won’t read nor understand the details of the case. The reporting here is good IMO, but the headline is radically misleading clickbait. You bit.

Don’t worry, the trans people aren’t coming to eat your babies. I promise.

#186 Faron on 10.05.21 at 1:46 pm

BC Gov’t scorched by Human Rights Watch. Ouch:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/10/05/canada-disastrous-impact-extreme-heat

#187 NEVER GIVE UP on 10.05.21 at 2:30 pm

182 Yama on 10.05.21 at 12:54 pm
NEVER GIVE UP, you did not mention what you think of the disaster of monetary policy and the low to lower, to ultra low to some negative interest rates policy.
=============================
Japan is actually doing quite well for a country with one of the worst demographic deficits in the world. They have lost 50 million of their population due to the low birth rate.

If you look into it carefully you would come to understand that demographics are the driving force in world economies. Any country that has babies coming into the spending part of their life has the demographic bonus. China has just finished with their demographic bonus and is entering a period of demographic decline.
There is no way to fix it even if they start pumping out babies as fast as possible. None of them will be spending any money for the next 25 years. The big spenders are people between 30 and 50. If you don’t have those people in your population your economy will decline. It’s really quite simple. The other factors are simply noise!
China at this time is the fastest aging society in the world.
Canada and the USA have staved off this problem simply due to immigration.

#188 jess on 10.05.21 at 3:27 pm

Niagara Region on 10.04.21 at 9:16 pm

“list link” cat and mouse
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/10/facebook-instagram-vaccines-linktree-misinformation/

south dakota and florida –hum governors who parroted trump?
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article254481622.html
493 companies in canada
701 usa

#189 jess on 10.05.21 at 3:29 pm

“the employee didn’t get $30,000 because they were called by the wrong pronouns. They got the $30,000 because they were fired for being transgender.”

#190 Fran on 10.05.21 at 7:55 pm

I don’t think so NEVER GIVE UP. Japan with what 266% debt to GDP ratio. They have 13.1 trillion US in debt Their 10 year Japan bond yield is 0.06%, their Japan 30 year US is 0.68%.

Right now Japan’s servicing debt costs, interest is 50% of all it’s tax revenues. If they got a 1% to 2% points increase in interest rates, 1% to 2.68% 10 or 30 year Japanese bond yields, they would probably be close to 85% or more of the governments tax revenues. Also, the rising costs of the elderly and growing aging population is making this even a more trying, difficult problem for collecting more tax revenues then their expenses, costs as a country as a whole. It will come a time when Japan will be in real trouble. This is true if their trade with US and other countries goes in a deep recession or worse. I would not want to eb in charge Japan today or in the future.