The door

In the hours after Quebec announced a vax passport, appointments for jabs doubled.

A few weeks from now residents there must prove they were vaxed in order to access non-essential services in regions where Covid is rampant. The premier said lockdowns are no longer a tool. So a passport will be the hammer of compliance.

The prime minister (about to call an election) agrees. Surveys show 58% of Canadians agree. As of Monday fully-dosed Americans are coming into Canada – but only with proof. The Toronto Board of Trade agrees with a vax passport, as does the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, plus the Montreal Board of Trade. Almost 80% of businesses in that city applaud. “It’s a clear signal from the private sector that they see the vaccine passport as a tool that should be used. And of course, in their view, it’s because you do not want to have to close down the economy again,” says the board boss.

France is doing it, too. And Britain. So is New York City. To dine indoors, go to a Broadway show, a hockey game or a gym will require the document. “This is a miraculous place, literally full of wonders,” said NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio. “If you’re vaccinated, all that’s gonna open up to you.  If you have the key, you can open the door. If you’re unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things.”

On Monday markets were wary of Delta. New daily infections in the US have catapulted well above 100,000 now. Oil prices dropped to an 11-week low as traders worried about governments, from the US to China, imposing new Covid restrictions that might curb growth and crude demand. Even southern American Republican politicians are pleading with 100 million unvaxed citizens to ignore the online conspiracy crud and get the shot.

So Ontario premier Doug Ford, looking retro, is against proof of vaccination, as the virus starts to spread again. Infections there have returned to early-summer levels. As everywhere, it’s the unvaccinated who are getting sick, going to hospital and tempting death. Ditto in Alberta, where Jason Kenney has decreed that testing will be scaled back so the province becomes effectively blinded to the Delta spread.

Meanwhile the feds are working on a vax passport for international travel. Some provinces require proof of vaccination to enter, lest a quarantine period be imposed. And large employers may not yet be daring to mandate inoculation of all workers, but they’re sure paying attention. For example, my corporate partner (the country’s largest non-bank financial institution with 1,140 on the payroll) recently surveyed everyone to determine vaccine compliance. Here’s what it found…

So here’s the dilemma: this Delta thing might be a problem. There could be a fourth wave. Vaccines prevent (but do not eliminate) people from getting badly sick and dying, and provide the only known way of ending a global pandemic. And lockdowns, quarantines or restrictions are no longer a viable economic, social or financial option. Governments already spent $20 trillion they didn’t have fighting Covid. Look at Canada’s obscene deficit and the taxes and grief this will cause for decades to come. Employment has just started to return to pre-pandemic levels. Everything from real estate to equity markets, work habits, travel, the GDP and puppy prices have been impacted by Covid. The disruption has been massive and costly. It cannot be repeated. The world can’t go dark again.

Markets have been cheered a bit by the UK, where Delta came, flared and has since subdued. Nobody seems to really know why – except the vaccination rate keeps rising. Now 89% (over 18) have one dose and 75% have had two. Since the UK brought in a health passport, vaccine hesitancy among young people has dropped by half. It seems simple – the more Pfizer, the less Delta. The more hesitancy, the more risk.

Back to La Belle Province: “Policy is also more likely to use targeted measures and mostly avoid lockdowns in countries that have performed better than others on vaccines,” says Scotiabank’s chief economist, Derek Holt. “Quebec’s vaccine passports are a vivid illustration of this policy bias and early evidence suggests that the adoption of such a system drives an acceleration in vaccinations.”

Mandating that everyone be vaccinated, as this pathetic blog showed recently, creates a firestorm of controversy. Just shutting the door to normalcy for the unvaxed is a lot simpler. Choices have consequences. Bring it on.

About the picture: “This is our one year old American Cocker, Sweet Biscuit, aka Cookie,” says DMC in Calgary. “She is still very much a puppy, loves to toss & chase rocks and is suspicious of scooters, motorcycles, the vacuum cleaner and green beans. We bought a place in Calgary last summer before prices went crazy with a huge yard for her to run off the zoomies.”

275 comments ↓

#1 Brunett43 on 08.09.21 at 12:53 pm

Covid isn’t going away time soon. It could take years before we even get a handle on it. Get use to it. Nevertheless, the unvaccinated are pushing this surge for a 4th wave. We had to get shots to enter school as children, I think it’s time that all those eligible be required to get the vax to participate in society. I’m sick and tired of wearing masks too, I’m vaxed so if this is what I have to do, I’ll continue to do so. My golden years aren’t looking so golden, oh well.

Am I first?

#2 alexinvestor on 08.09.21 at 12:53 pm

Canada seems way more risk adverse. Florida has more than 10x the number of cases on a per capita basis compared to Canada and they don’t seem to care. I bet that we will keep extending EI benefits (already 1 month extension announced, abet at reduced rate).

#3 T on 08.09.21 at 1:07 pm

Too little, too late. Delta already has a foothold, many vaccine hesitant are turning militant.

It’s going to be a rude awakening for many here in Canada over the coming months – on both sides of this ‘debate’.

#4 Damn statistics! on 08.09.21 at 1:09 pm

Ditto in Alberta, where Jason Kenney has decreed that testing will be scaled back so the province becomes effectively blinded to the Delta spread.
_______________________________________

Funny how when your “buddy” Trump brought up this topic about testing a year ago (i.e. the more you test, the more cases you will find), you considered this non-sensical. Just saying … but your hypocrisy is rife. You can’t have it both ways.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/20/trump-said-more-covid19-testing-creates-more-cases-we-did-the-math/

Kenny is wrong. Trump was wrong. How hard is this to understand? – Garth

#5 Sam on 08.09.21 at 1:16 pm

Garth, I love your blog, but if you’re going to continue to push one side of the vax argument, you have to be prepared for pushback.

The vaccine isn’t science… Pure and simple. Science is dependable and has a process. The process for drug approvals required 10-12 years, not 6-8 months. And there’s a reason why… something to do with not rushing unproven medicines that can cause harm. The vaccine is scientists, and scientists are wrong far more often than not.

This is mRNA we’re talking about. Unlike a conventional pharmaceutical, if this goes badly there’s no flushing out of the system or offsetting drugs. People DNA is irreparably altered.

All 4 vaccines have been failures in that none of them flagged side effects prior to release, and 2 of them failed to flag fatal blood clots (Astra and J&J). And that’s just the short term.

Anyone who says these vaxxes are safe in the medium or long term are dumb or are lying. There’s no on on earth who has had them that long.

…. And while every public official, including you, is pushing the need to get the vax for people to prevent 0.5% mortality… no one anywhere is offering honest dialog on the serious risks that may come from from an unproven drug. And yes, at this point it’s fair to call it unproven.

There’s a reason why the drug companies applied for and were granted immunity from liability. They understand that there could be far far larger problems from their unproven vaccines than there ever could from COVID.

By the way, I am fully vaxxed. I understand that life must go on and I’ll be prevented from much everyday life otherwise (which is extremely unfair and yes tyrannical). George Orwell would like to pull you aside and speak with you for a minute.

But there’s nothing about what was jabbed in my arm that I’m comfortable about.

If you’re going to extol the virtues of getting the vax, be a straight shooter and also disclose the risks. That’s acting in the public’s best interest, not shaming them for not towing the company line.

Love the blog… Read it every day of my life.

This comment provides a good example of why other anti-vax posts will be deleted today, and going forward. the mRNA vaccines do not (of course) alter a person’s DNA. “DNA is stored in the protected centre of our cells – the nucleus. The mRNA is broken down quickly by the body. It never enters the nucleus, and cannot affect or combine with our DNA in any way to change our genetic code. Instead, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines teach the cell how to make a protein that triggers an immune response specific to COVID-19. The vaccines work with the body’s natural defences to develop immunity to disease.” Ignorance, willful blindness, cowardice and selfishness and the four horsepeople of the Unvaxed. Sad to behold. – Garth

#6 Dogman01 on 08.09.21 at 1:19 pm

Watch the Media, contemplate what their next scheduled narrative is.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/united-nations-climate-change-1.6134493

Covid emergency will transition to Climate emergency.

Dance to the pied piper serfs.

Not denying there is Climate Change, but unfortunately this righteous cause is being used as a vehicle for another agenda.
No talk or valid solutions proposed for the root cause, Human Overpopulation.

Accept your small apartment, no vehicle, difficulty travelling anywhere, censorship, declining standard of living. “You will own nothing and be happy”,
Our new Aristocracy supported by their clergy, the Media and big Corporatocracy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ES9idjPfI

The Formula:
Get one of the jobs filled by the 9.9%, live the lifestyle of the 90%, invest the difference and you will achieve the power, contentment, awareness and bliss of financial freedom.

#7 binky barnes on 08.09.21 at 1:21 pm

A great performance by Canada’s Olympians! Congratulations–and thanks–to all those who represented the country with such distinction on the world stage. They should be proud!

BB

#8 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 1:33 pm

From the Globe and Mail Editorial Board:

EDITORIALS
Get vaccinated – or find another line of work

#9 Doug t on 08.09.21 at 1:34 pm

Nope don’t bring it on – I got my two shots BUT totally not kosher with “Vee must see your papers” – the world changed forever after 911 and not for better – this will just be one more giant step to authoritarian control over your freedoms and will never be reversed – not kosher at all

#10 TurnerNation on 08.09.21 at 1:43 pm

Back to normal…any day now!??
All the old culture must be torn down. What it is this time – hospital capacity again?
Endless STATE OF EMERGENCY = unlimited power and fear.
Unlimited Profit – Moderna stock price record highs today.

.New Orleans Jazz Fest cancelled due to concerns surrounding COVID-19 (ultimateclassicrock.com)

.Face masks required for everyone under new Durham (NC) state of emergency (wral.com)


— This is a NS pandemic ? Why the endless state of emergency?

.One New Case of COVID-19, Three Recoveries, State of …https://novascotia.ca › news › release
3 days ago — The province is renewing the state of emergency to protect the health and safety of Nova Scotians and ensure safety measures and other …


— People no longer may ignore the brutal control over our travel. This all makes sense if you realize to our rulers WE are the virus to be controlled. Dovetails into the ‘Climate Change’ agenda.
Like animal humans are being assigned Grades, Classes, Rankings.

US travel bans: Bizarre and ruthless
Valerio Francioni Aug. 4, 2021
https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/opinions/080421/us-travel-bans-bizarre-and-ruthless
“Almost 17 months later, the presidential proclamation(s) remain in effect and even have been expanded. They now include the 26 Schengen countries, the U.K., the Republic of Ireland, South Africa, Brazil, India, China and Iran. If I were to travel to any of these countries from the U.S., I would be unable to return. I have not seen my family in a year and a half.
Remarkably, this science-based approach only applies to certain categories of visa.
For example, M-1 and F-1 visa holders (largely students), green card holders and U.S. citizens are exempt from the restrictions. We still have much to learn about COVID-19; however, virologists would agree that susceptibility to infection does not change according to the visa type you hold”

#11 NSNG on 08.09.21 at 1:43 pm

May the blood be upon “leadership’s” hands. They made a choice.

#12 shortymac on 08.09.21 at 1:44 pm

Yeah, I work for the OPS and we suddenly got e-mailed a high level “back to the office!” plan that is all political smoke and mirrors as we’re heading into a federal election and with the provincial election next year.

We’re supposed to be back 2-3 times a week in the office BUT:

1) Can’t interact with each other or have meetings physically to promote social distancing. So what is the point of being in the office?

2) Only 2 ppl are allowed in an elevator at a time, which is going to cause a massive line up every morning and waste time.

3) Masking all day, yeah no.

4) No plan for people with medical conditions, and caretaker and childcare issues.

I’m currently pregnant. I’m not getting on the TTC to stand on my hippo feet while waiting forever in line to then get into the office, to telework…

I’m bring this up to my OB/GYN to get a medical exemption to fight this.

Personally, I won’t be suprised if we head into another quasi-lockdown in the fall, after kids are back in school, with this Delta and Lambda variant. Just take a look at the US right now, in many places they are in an all out 4th wave with full hospitals. This variant might also be effecting children more than pervious variants.

#13 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 1:47 pm

@#5 Sam the dumbdumb on 08.09.21 at 1:16 pm
Garth, I love your blog, but if you’re going to continue to push one side of the vax argument, you have to be prepared for pushback.

The vaccine isn’t science… Pure and simple. Science is dependable and has a process. The process for drug approvals required 10-12 years, not 6-8 months. And there’s a reason why… something to do with not rushing unproven medicines that can cause harm. The vaccine is scientists, and scientists are wrong far more often than not.

This is mRNA we’re talking about. Unlike a conventional pharmaceutical, if this goes badly there’s no flushing out of the system or offsetting drugs. People DNA is irreparably altered.

All 4 vaccines have been failures in that none of them flagged side effects prior to release, and 2 of them failed to flag fatal blood clots (Astra and J&J). And that’s just the short term.

This comment provides a good example of why other anti-vax posts will be deleted today, and going forward. the mRNA vaccines do not (of course) alter a person’s DNA. “DNA is stored in the protected centre of our cells – the nucleus. The mRNA is broken down quickly by the body. It never enters the nucleus, and cannot affect or combine with our DNA in any way to change our genetic code. Instead, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines teach the cell how to make a protein that triggers an immune response specific to COVID-19. The vaccines work with the body’s natural defences to develop immunity to disease.” Ignorance, willful blindness, cowardice and selfishness and the four horsepeople of the Unvaxed. Sad to behold. – Garth

where do these lunatics get their info lol?

Time for dunce ford to get with the program and implement some form of vax passport.
the wilfull idiots obviously have no intention of helping themselves.

#14 Ustabe on 08.09.21 at 1:48 pm

When I drive my vehicle I always carry my “passport” issued by the government that allows me to drive, in case an agent of the government wants to see it.

But onto more important stuff. I recently made a discovery I am compelled to share. When eating Nigiri, a type of sushi where the fish sits on top of rice and is not wrapped, you should flip it upside down so your tongue (taste buds) get the fish and seasonings first, not the blander rice.

Carry on…

#15 Sam on 08.09.21 at 1:49 pm

Garth, Thank your for the explanation on the mRNA. That’s the explanation I’ve been looking for.

It would be my opinion that if you posted that explanation, which clears up a lot, it would help many, like it helped me, to understand.

Much appreciated !

#16 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 1:49 pm

#8
Unfortunately, we don’t live in the Wild West anymore, where there were very few rules and Freedom reigned supreme.
At least that’s what the Romantics wanna believe.
Today the list of what you can’t do is much longer than the list of what you can do.
And what’s Freedom anyway?
The slave has a different take on it then the master.

#17 Russ on 08.09.21 at 1:59 pm

For the record, I am pro-vaccine (the wife & I have two Pziser shots each) but I am against a “passport” or having any requirement to prove my status.

It is just another large step against personal freedom.

Some time ago a UK study indicated that vaccinated people may have enough viral load to spread to another person. If the other person chose not to get vaccinated she could be in trouble.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/fully-vaccinated-people-catch-covid-variants-may-pass-virus/

This brings me to the point, a vaccination is just like purchasing insurance. You buy insurance to protect yourself, not “the other person”.

As the UK study points out, it is not reliable to get vaccinated in order to protect other people. Once this is accepted the argument for draconian measures looses credibility.

Cheers, R

A vaccine is not to protect just you, but society. Mass vaccination poses the only hope for a timely end to the pandemic. – Garth

#18 physicist on 08.09.21 at 2:03 pm

If the situation were exactly the same, except that the virus was ten times as deadly, there would be no debate about vaccine passports.

#19 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 2:04 pm

@#9 Doug t on 08.09.21 at 1:34 pm
Nope don’t bring it on – I got my two shots BUT totally not kosher with “Vee must see your papers” – the world changed forever after 911 and not for better – this will just be one more giant step to authoritarian control over your freedoms and will never be reversed – not kosher at all

the non-vaxxinated are basically petri dishes for new variants which is not great for achieving herd immunity.
imo we definitely need some sort of passport to apart of society.

#20 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 2:06 pm

#144 Planetgoofy on 08.09.21 at 1:10 pm
#142 the jaguar on 08.09.21 at 12:46 pm
@ 137 IHCTD9
Red states versus blue states. California is the poster child. We have our own version here. It’s just broken down more regionally within provinces. Edmonton versus Calgary for example. They’re very slippery up north. Grifters everywhere you look…..(shiver).
———————————————————-
T2 and gang have sent a clear signal Canada is not a friendly place to do business.
Mega bucks have bailed over the past few years.
Good job SOCKS!
———————
Goofy.
Go and line-up at the bank to deposit your imaginary rent cheques.
You’re having too much time on your hand, as witnessed by your posts here.

#21 S.Bby on 08.09.21 at 2:20 pm

If someone who is vaccinated can still contract Covid and carry the virus then that would mean the virus can still mutate and be passed on to others as a new mutated strain. So since the vaccines do not prevent Covid, I don’t see how these vaccines will stop the spread of Covid.

They are. The people getting whacked now are almost entirely the unvaccinated. – Garth

#22 enthalpy on 08.09.21 at 2:23 pm

if the vaccinated can spread the big C just the same as the unvaxxed. What exactly is the point of the passports?

Airbags and seatbelts don’t stop accidents. They just save lives and keep people out of ICUs. Seems a reasonable goal. – Garth

#23 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 2:26 pm

#15 Russ on 08.09.21 at 1:59 pm
For the record, I am pro-vaccine (the wife & I have two Pziser shots each) but I am against a “passport” or having any requirement to prove my status.
—————————
Oh Russ is so special, thinks he should not have to show a passport on the border.
The vaccine passport is necessary, so that those who are vaccinated can go to Canucks games and parties and those who are not have to stay home and mob how unfair live is.
You already made the first important steps, so why not get the hand stamp, showing that you’ve paid the admission to the PNE.

#24 NSNG on 08.09.21 at 2:28 pm

When they stop withholding information that we all know is out there and start giving the full spectrum of choice regarding cures and prevention to consumers, then maybe they will be trusted.

Forcing us all to go down one narrow corridor that just happens to be their profit channel doesn’t cut it and is consider provocation to a free person.

#25 the jaguar on 08.09.21 at 2:28 pm

As I wrote a few days ago, Jason K doesn’t want vax passports for the same reason they don’t want to release the modelling data that supports dropping the old testing. They already know who and where the problem lies. North,rural, reform party types for one. That’s his base. And we are still testing with waste water and Sentinel system. The ones who won’t get vaxxed aren’t the travel type. They know exactly where the non-vaxxed live. Hinshaw is getting ready for the RSV virus. It goes after babies and little kids. Resources are being re-directed. Choices have to be made. Remember too, Calgary has the largest ex-pat american population.

#26 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 2:29 pm

If you are going to write posts with regards to being pro-vaccinations then you should have the decency (and the stomach) to allow people to comment with opposing views.

We know already. – Garth

#27 Millennial 1%er on 08.09.21 at 2:30 pm

Get vaccinated folks, I’m too heavily invested in the s&p500 for you guys not to be

#28 Doug t on 08.09.21 at 2:34 pm

DELETED

#29 IHCTD9 on 08.09.21 at 2:36 pm

“…to ignore the online conspiracy crud and get the shot.”

———

Tall order that. Lunch time at work sees one co-worker scanning the CBC COVID doom, sweating bullets over the completely one sided coverage and click-bait headlines. Another watches the same young backwards cap wearing dude on YouTube every day, a “political news” Info Wars type dispenser of carefully selected stories and facts. I got one set of strident anti-vax in-laws who absolutely believe it’s dangerous.

I’m just old enough to have lived as an adult before the Internet, so I fully understand how awesome it is. But, it’s become a quagmire for many since Social Media arrived. Some folks are just doomed to fall into some online tribalism and don’t give pause for critical independent thought.

I’m an unabashed right-wing cave-man knuckle dragger, so I do not see CV as the plague it has been made out to be, fully understand that there are some legitimate concerns with the vaccine(s), and fully support both the freedom to decline a vax, and the reasonable removal of carefully chosen freedoms from same as a result.

We’re all double vax’d here at the bunker complex. There is little to fear, and much to be gained. It’s simply a good bet. On the same note, no one here got jabbed because they feared getting CV either, and I doubt anyone left the clinic with a warm glow in their bellies resulting from their “good deed”.

Frankly, this whole thing has been way overblown IMHO, but running around unvax’d in the current climate comes with way too much BS – and that’s 99% of why we’re all jabbed right now.

#30 VGRO and chill on 08.09.21 at 2:37 pm

Who cares about covid. Read the IPCC’s brand spanking new AR6 report – just released this morning.

In every modelling scenario, we are going to hit 1.5degC by 2040. It is now locked in. Irreversible climate change will happen no matter what we do.

Our only hope is to take drastic action and halve emissions by 2030, and be carbon neutral by 2050. We would also need to develop and implement mass technological systems to pull carbon out of the atmosphere.

We ain’t doing it.

Do the math.

#31 Prince Polo on 08.09.21 at 2:38 pm

Politicians who pander to conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxers should be, overwhelmingly, shown the door at election time. I have faith in the electorate……for now.

#32 Planetgoofy on 08.09.21 at 2:40 pm

#20 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 2:06 pm
—————————————————
I hate lineups.
I Imagined I could do what I want by 50…..And here I am.
Ironically you Ponz have 10 x the post here no?

#33 Sean on 08.09.21 at 2:41 pm

> The prime minister (about to call an election) agrees. Surveys show 58% of Canadians agree.

That’s all great but that doesn’t mean they have the right to require (1) commercially-derived antibodies (naturally acquired antibodies aren’t good enough) (2) based on experimental vaccines, which seems dubious and unethical.

I hope somebody sues the government soon. Just saw the news about a Canadian citizen who had to fly back to France because she wasn’t vaccinated. She should sue.

#34 Sam on 08.09.21 at 2:43 pm

#13 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 1:47 pm
Uh, because I was studying CRISPR technology at the time and Tracer RNA works differently, that’s why.

But thanks for your diatribe on trickle down economics not working. After all, Billionaires got that way by being more resourceful allocators of capital. which is why you get a better result giving Bezos $100,000 than a homeless guy… or a working poor stiff who got into debt trouble to begin with.

Though you yourself mentioned that the money eventually just ends up in the Billionaire’s pockets anyways, lets skip a step, including the unnecessary inflation hit that’s a painful tax on the working class.

You know inflation right…. that thing that occurred right before Regan, when America was apparently great. I think your deep personal experience is a rain puddle.

Don’t let thinking get in the way of your posts.

#35 Steerage science on 08.09.21 at 2:44 pm

#5 Sam on 08.09.21 at 1:16 pm
Garth, I love your blog, but if you’re going to continue to push one side of the vax argument, you have to be prepared for pushback.

The vaccine isn’t science… Pure and simple. Science is dependable and has a process. The process for drug approvals required 10-12 years, not 6-8 months. And there’s a reason why… something to do with not rushing unproven medicines that can cause harm. The vaccine is scientists, and scientists are wrong far more often than not.

This is mRNA we’re talking about. Unlike a conventional pharmaceutical, if this goes badly there’s no flushing out of the system or offsetting drugs. People DNA is irreparably altered.

Complete and total BS…

Genes and DNA are not altered.. not how it works…stunningly
cool science … stunning level of scientific illiteracy… where does this come from

#36 Joe on 08.09.21 at 2:45 pm

the fact that the US border is being open says it all, not too long ago the world was coming to an end with these same case numbers and now were opening the US border, what a cluster

Not long ago we did not have vaccines. Now we do. There is no comparison. – Garth

#37 Joseph R. on 08.09.21 at 2:47 pm

#17 Russ on 08.09.21 at 1:59 pm

It is just another large step against personal freedom.

Some time ago a UK study indicated that vaccinated people may have enough viral load to spread to another person. If the other person chose not to get vaccinated she could be in trouble.

———————————————————–

It is true that vaccinated people can transmit the virus. It goes way back with the first vaccines. In 1796, when Dr. Jenner made his discovery known, people lined up to get their cowpox injections.
Cowpox was still the best vaccine against smallpox up the the 20th century. Cowpox injection did not render smallpox extinct. It made it irrelevant.

That said, when people got infected after getting cowpox, they still got sick but no where close to suffer the death rate (30%) or disfiguring effect of smallpox compared the population that did not get cowpox firsthand.

Cowpox is close enough to provide some immunity to smallpox but different enough to be able to affect cows (smallpox only natural carrier are humans). The antibodies against cowpox are bit exactly that same as for smallpox. However, the immune response was so that it would slow down the smallpox infection to allow your T-cells to perfect the antibodies that were created by the cowpox infection.

That’s the goal of the public vaccination program: vaccinate you to give your immune system antibodies that will slow down the infection and provide enough time for your body to create the perfect antibody for each variant. As such, it prevent hospitalization and long-term Covid syndrome.

Because each variants have some difference in their capsids and attached spikes, your body will need time to perfect the antibodies to perfectly neutralize each variant. That is why you are still contagious.

#38 wallflower on 08.09.21 at 2:49 pm

Always always always gobsmacked by people like this dufus who deem to tell someone — who offers something for free — how to behave.

It would be tremendous to see permanent bans effected for dufuses (with a listing below the comments of all dufuses of the day – this would give the rest of us an appreciation for how much garbage Garth and moderators have to deal with).

#26 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 2:29 pm
If you are going to write posts with regards to being pro-vaccinations then you should have the decency (and the stomach) to allow people to comment with opposing views.

#39 Brett in Calgary on 08.09.21 at 2:52 pm

I like this blog much more when it sticks to finance. And yes, I realize I come here and pay precisely $0.

Our Canadian society has too much division in it already, and what we are doing with passports is producing more of this: the ‘dirty’ and the ‘clean’.

Sad times indeed.

Vax passports are a financial issue. More shutdowns will render an economic outcome we will all regret. – Garth

#40 Summertime on 08.09.21 at 2:56 pm

Over 60 new high rise condos to be build on Steels between Yonge and Dufferin. In already crowded area.

Friends of mine approved for 1.7 millions mortgage. Average young professional salaries.

Food increased by 30-40 % in the last few years.

But no inflation.

Epic crap show coming, we have seen nothing yet.

Rate can not go up ever. Inflation will be in double digits for a decade or two Fun times ahead.

#41 SunShowers on 08.09.21 at 3:01 pm

#17 Russ on 08.09.21 at 1:59 pm
“It is just another large step against personal freedom.”

There’s a reason why society doesn’t grant me the “personal freedom” to drive drunk.

9 times out of 10, people bellyaching about “personal freedom” are willing to tolerate the consequences of their own actions as they relate to THEMSELVES, but they pretend that their actions won’t have negative outcomes for OTHERS, which functional societies should work to curtail.

“You buy insurance to protect yourself, not the other person”

You absolutely buy insurance to protect other people.

You are required buy homeowner’s insurance when taking out a mortgage to protect the bank.

You are required to buy auto insurance to drive, which can protect other parties as well, not just you.

#26 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 2:29 pm
“If you are going to write posts with regards to being pro-vaccinations then you should have the decency (and the stomach) to allow people to comment with opposing views.”

Why stop there?
If Garth is going to write posts with regards to 2 being greater than 1, then he should have the decency (and the stomach) to allow people to comment insisting that 1 is greater than 2, right?

It would be funny enough to just let anti-vax people be proudly and publicly wrong so we can point and laugh and all have a good time, but unfortunately sometimes people being wrong can create public health crises.

#42 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 08.09.21 at 3:01 pm

Colour me shocked that people who oppose the vaccine cite “individual freedom and rights” to not get vaccinated but are appaled when the vaccinated ones choose the same rights to get vaccinated and exclude them from interaction.
If is your right to not get vaccinated it is my right to refuse to interact with you as to safeguard my health ( in my opinion) and demand proof (e.g. vaccine passport) that you are not a danger.
Same rules apply.
It is a ” once in a lifetime ” pandemic so normal rules do not apply .
We should be thankful that as bad as COVID is it could’ve been a lot worse and the response to it does not lead to confidence in our future as aspecies if this freedom first approach it tolerated by us as a society.
Maybe all anti-vaxeres should be forced to watch all of the “Resident Evil” movies and look at it as forewarning.

#43 Sam on 08.09.21 at 3:02 pm

#5 Sam on 08.09.21 at 1:16 pm

stunning level of scientific illiteracy… where does this come from?
————————————————–
The same people pressuring us to get it offering no explanation as to how it works, and why it’s safe.

That’s where it comes from.

#44 Billy Buoy on 08.09.21 at 3:02 pm

It’s simple:

Don’t fight the FED or any governments in power over the long run.

Both are always ULTIMATELY in control.

Get the Vac! Think of others as well as yourself.

#45 Bill on 08.09.21 at 3:12 pm

You’re demonic. A worse human than Trudeau.

#46 What a world on 08.09.21 at 3:14 pm

So i guess people will die and starve because they can’t get food without a vaccine communist pass.

#47 Soviet Capitalist on 08.09.21 at 3:15 pm

Garth, what’s your position regarding naturally acquired immunity? Shouldn’t we have Immunity passports instead of vaccination ones?

#48 Common sense is hard to teach on 08.09.21 at 3:17 pm

DELETED

#49 truefacts on 08.09.21 at 3:18 pm

“In their latest COVID-19 update, Public Health England (PHE) experts also warned there were early signs that people who have been inoculated may be able to transmit the Delta strain as easily as those who have not received any jabs.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/6/nearly-35-percent-of-uk-delta-hospitalisations-fully-vaccinated
_____________________________________

Vaxxed/unvaxxed – just as easily transmitted…
from the UK (who has more experience than us).

Follow science or lock people out to make us feel better?

What about people who cannot get the vax due to health issues? Screw ’em?

#50 Nonplused on 08.09.21 at 3:18 pm

Hmmm but some people in the US are saying that things are actually going pretty well in Alberta and that we have the best data available:

https://mishtalk.com/economics/dear-anti-vaxxers-lets-discuss-the-best-data-around

It seems that for those people who are 14+ days past their second dose, the effects of covid drop dramatically. At least in Alberta. So the Alberta data shows that if you have had your 2nd dose and made it 14 days without getting infected, you personally don’t have too much to worry about even if you do get it. Even against “variants of concern”.

I don’t have the exact updated numbers, but Alberta is around 80% for the first does and 60% for 2 doses. I think we can assume that those who have had the first dose but not the second will stagger in for their second dose sometime in the next couple of months as they are clearly not anti-vaxxers.

Therefore the question is what to do about the other 20% who have not yet received even one dose? It’s pretty easy to get now, now appointment necessary and no going on line to book. Just walk into most pharmacies and you’ll be on your way in a few minutes. Therefore we can probably conclude that this 20% of the population consists of the vaccine hesitant, anti-vaxxers, and people who just don’t care (or maybe haven’t even heard or what’s going on).

But what to do about them? Vaccine passports? Why? They don’t pose a risk to the vaccinated, or at least not a serious risk any more so than say someone with the flu. That’s what the “science” is saying (ok, plotting a bunch of data isn’t really science, but it is useful).

The Alberta gathered and tracked the right data for covid, specifically who got sick and WHEN, as compared to no dose, 1 dose, and 2 doses. The data shows that 2 weeks after your second dose the risk of serious sickness and death drops to manageable levels, and it drops quite a bit after the first dose. With 80% double dose in sight and the other 20% probably hopeless cases, the question becomes one of cost/benefit.

Vaccine passports will present a substantial ongoing cost, never mind all the Orwellian social side affects. Why do it if it doesn’t present some sort of benefit? It appears that the unvaxxed are only harming themselves.

#51 Aaron on 08.09.21 at 3:19 pm

Winter lockdown is coming no matter what they tell us now, and no matter what people do.

This won’t end well.

#52 Rita on 08.09.21 at 3:20 pm

The world governments can keep kicking the can down the road with their massive debts by papering over them by money printing, central bank manipulation by hundreds of trillions dollars but the economy is the reason for vaccine passports. What a bunch of crap.

#53 UCC on 08.09.21 at 3:26 pm

A vaccine is not to protect just you, but society. Mass vaccination poses the only hope for a timely end to the pandemic. – Garth

Pandemics end, vaccinated or not- herd immunity will be reached. Its important to note that over time waves amplitudes dissipate. BTW, there are still h1n1 waves flowing through the globe. No one really talks about them at all anymore.

I stepped up and got AZ followed by Pfizer so I did my part and I encourage all others to do their part and get the damn vaccine.

That said, I am absolutely against vaccine passports. Can’t go to restaurant with out a passport? Can see your family in another province. That’s absolutely draconian.

#54 enthalpy on 08.09.21 at 3:29 pm

if the vaccinated can spread the big C just the same as the unvaxxed. What exactly is the point of the passports?

Airbags and seatbelts don’t stop accidents. They just save lives and keep people out of ICUs. Seems a reasonable goal. – Garth

_____________

I agree, and if people want to vaxx up(most should and do), that’s seems logical to me.

I see the vax as the airbag and seatbelt in your analogy. I don’t see what value the passport itself brings, considering the everyone (vaxxed or not) are just as likely to spread the covids.
It just seems unnecessary and divisive in this case.

Airbags and seatbelts are mandatory. For a reason. – Garth

#55 "NUTS!" on 08.09.21 at 3:30 pm

I used to think with the availability of ‘good’ information, there was hope that society would elevate to a better place. The issue has become that misinformation has become prevalent, and worse, become factual.

“Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed. ” – Pudd’nhead Wilson

#56 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 3:31 pm

#37 wallflower on 08.09.21 at 2:49 pm

Perhaps you should change your nickname to Snowflake instead. It was just a suggestion. Garth can obviously do what he wants in the end so just chill.

#57 Brett in Calgary on 08.09.21 at 3:32 pm

#38 Brett in Calgary on 08.09.21 at 2:52 pm
I like this blog much more when it sticks to finance. And yes, I realize I come here and pay precisely $0.

Our Canadian society has too much division in it already, and what we are doing with passports is producing more of this: the ‘dirty’ and the ‘clean’.

Sad times indeed.

Vax passports are a financial issue. More shutdowns will render an economic outcome we will all regret. – Garth
=================================

Lockdowns/shutdowns are THE financial and also adverse health-producing issue. I have commented before on spiral of pediatric mental health, as one example. So we agree here.

In my opinion however, the unvaccinated have made their choice, so let them live with it. Only the immune compromised are the truly vulnerable with regards to community transmission. I presume these unfortunate folks, like the 20% unvaccinated know who they are, and can act to best mitigate their personal risk.

The healthcare system on the other hand, CAN cope with the 20% unvaccinated if necessary. And before I am accused of anti-vaxxing, my immune system was fully upgraded as of the end of July.

#58 Concept of a Passport on 08.09.21 at 3:36 pm

The idea of a vaccination passport is not without precedent. We have our sovereign nation passport and we accept the need for a driver’s license, proof of insurance, a property deed, the requirement for licenses to practice medicine, and so on. We have certifications for virtually all trades; even finance people divide themselves up into categories with stringent requirements and hoops to jump through.

Why would vaccination be any different given it is an easily implemented public health measure that really does not infringe on any of the rights (and privileges) that we enjoy in Canada. We are amongst the more privileged and fortunate people to walk this earth. Surely this charade of “losing our freedoms” should end so that we can get back to living our lives to the fullest.

#59 espressobob on 08.09.21 at 3:38 pm

Many a major operation are delayed due to covid patients in an ICU. People needing heart surgery or other life saving procedures wait.

This little selfless act of getting VAXXED helps to free up the backlog for those with real health problems.

This is why each of us has a social responsibility to be part of the solution. Doing otherwise, well, really is disappointing to say the least.

#60 Summertime on 08.09.21 at 3:39 pm

#43 Billy Buoy on 08.09.21 at 3:02 pm

Don’t fight the FED or any governments in power over the long run.

Both are always ULTIMATELY in control.

———————————————–

We will see about that as food and energy prices increase by 15-20 % in the next 5 years. Then for another 10 years.

‘In control’? How, by increasing rates?
Sure.

#61 SunShowers on 08.09.21 at 3:39 pm

#33 Sam on 08.09.21 at 2:43 pm
#13 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 1:47 pm
Uh, because I was studying CRISPR technology at the time and Tracer RNA works differently, that’s why.

People are not being injected with CRISPR-Cas9 nucleases along with the necessary gRNA (tracrRNA is different) to achieve genome changes. You are getting mad about something that is not happening at all.

This is not a mistake that someone who was seriously “studying CRISPR technology” would make.

#62 Alberta Ed on 08.09.21 at 3:39 pm

Foreign travelers and Canadians returning to Canada must still have a pre-entry Covid test (@$135-$150 per person!!!) within 72 hours of crossing the border, in addition to proof of vaccination. There is no clear policy on what Canadians without the pre-entry test would have to do; recent court challenges could further muddy the waters.

#63 Brett in Calgary on 08.09.21 at 3:41 pm

On a lighter note, don’t eat Bambi because she may have COVID. Can Pfizer accommodate?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8

#64 Summertime on 08.09.21 at 3:42 pm

#58 espressobob on 08.09.21 at 3:38 pm

Social responsibility? Like the one taking it on the chin/cheek with the fake inflation rates and zero rate policies?

That time has long gone. Face the reality, nobody will vaccinate as of social responsibility, only of fear for their own life.

#65 johnfromkingston on 08.09.21 at 3:45 pm

Basically agree but with caveat. My medical history is between me and my doctor, private business can keep their nose out of it. So I would propose an alternative. Provide proof of a vaccine to enter a private business. Don’t want to provide it then a mask and sanitize. If I start providing a vaccine passport to a private business they will collect that data on me and use it for their profit. What vaccines I have or not had is an issue between me and the government end of story. It was that way prior to this mess and we should strive to return to that asap. Of course there will always be exceptions, certain hospital wards, life insurance etc but they need to be limited. Yes I have had the first dose, second is this week.

#66 SunShowers on 08.09.21 at 3:47 pm

#42 Sam on 08.09.21 at 3:02 pm
“The same people pressuring us to get it offering no explanation as to how it works, and why it’s safe.”

Although he’s a smart fella, I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that Garth has little to no professional education, training, or work experience in the fields of immunology, microbiology, virology, etc.

And yet, in his first response to you, he was able to explain precisely how these vaccines work and why they’re safe, in an easily understandable manner.

Somehow, everybody knows except those who seem really determined not to.

#67 Common sense is hard to teach - Take 2 on 08.09.21 at 3:50 pm

Apparently I was DELETED for stating medical statistics. Not all people like facts. Let’s try this…

It’s pure tyranny to push mandatory medical intervention on to any citizen. Especially one that is still in its experimental phase.

Governments don’t push mandatory fitness on obese citizens, they allow for billion dollar corporations to sell cigarettes & vapes which are KNOWINGLY linked to heart/lung disease and cancer and fast food restaurants run free selling unhealthy foods high in sugars and saturated fats which are also directly linked to obesity and heart disease.

The irony of pushing an experimental drug on people to “help” them when corporations freely push known harmful ‘food & drugs’ on to people without consequence is mind boggling.

#68 kommykim on 08.09.21 at 3:57 pm

RE: #148 RL on 08.09.21 at 2:29 pm
So the argument that has been made to me is that low cost ETFs are great when you’re in a bull market, but you see the benefit of paying a higher MER for more active investing in a bear market. Thoughts?

=======================================

Well, since around only 20% of active managers beat the index, you’re usually better off with index ETFs even in a bear market.
So how are you going to find this active manager? They all come with the same disclaimer, “Past performance does not guarantee future results.”

Strategy for a bear market: do nothing. They’re always short and always followed by a bull. – Garth

#69 Bankrupting Landlords = Good for the Economy on 08.09.21 at 3:58 pm

Doesn’t the Provincetown study prove that the vaccinated can still trigger mass outbreaks? What if cases still surge after the implementation of a vaccine passport?

I’m fully vaxxed by the way.

How many times does the same question have to be answered? Being vaxed lessens sickness, reduces strain on the health care system, reduces fatalities, allows society to renew normal activities, saves public resources and ends the pandemic faster. Most succumbing now are unvaccinated. They have chosen badly. – Garth

#70 Dolce Vita on 08.09.21 at 4:01 pm

Listen to Garth people.

Everything he has written (and rebutted to Comments) is consistent with what is happening in Europe vs. Delta.

In Italia we have had the Green Pass for awhile. It is no big deal.

Business and the Public, 73% in favour in Italia, are happy for obvious reasons – jobs, economy, diminished fear of getting sick.

Your MSM in Canada is stupid as is that in the US, about 2 months behind Europe when it comes to Delta.

Let that sink in.

#71 FreshThought on 08.09.21 at 4:01 pm

Dear Garth,
Please show some humility instead of thinking you’ve got it all figured out.

There is no long term safety data for the mRNA injections and therefore forcing them on teens who have almost zero risk of covid is abhorrent.

Intelligent people such as mRNA pioneer Robert Malone have agreed with this and are disturbed at how this obsessive coercion is rolling out.
Also have you looked at the possibility of ADE? (antibody dependent enhancement) Better hope your jab doesn’t go wrong in that scenario and make things much worse.

Also how about the data from Scotland, Israel, Malta, Gibraltar showing the majority of cases are in the vaxxed? (ie it’s not working!) Yet we are fed the opposite narrative from cherry picked data…

Also how about that PCR test unfit for diagnosis, being run at cycle thresholds that are routinely too high throughout this whole fiasco?
Or how about lockdowns likely causing more death from starvation and being ineffective to boot.
The list of holes in the narratives is long but I’ll leave it at that.

Open your mind, maybe just maybe we’ve been fed a line to suit an agenda…

A vaccine passport is not ‘forcing’ anything on anyone. But by refusing social responsibility one abrogate privileges. No decision is without consequences. – Garth

#72 Bob on 08.09.21 at 4:05 pm

@IHCTD9 #29

Frankly, this whole thing has been way overblown IMHO, but running around unvax’d in the current climate comes with way too much BS – and that’s 99% of why we’re all jabbed right now.

I guess that depends on what you mean by “this thing.” The thing has always been about ICU capacity and keeping the health system functioning. That’s why the first wave was just as bad as the second and third, despite much lower case counts.

It’s also why politicians are betting that we can suffer a fourth wave without lockdowns. The thinking goes that since the unvaccinated are mostly younger individuals, they’re less likely to get seriously sick, and thus we’ll see lower ICU numbers despite high case counts. We shall see.

Here in Ontario, the ICU situation hasn’t been overblown at all. We’ve approached dangerously close to (and then backed away from) the crisis point three times now.

Of course, none of this is really evident from the daily coverage. As usual, our media organizations find the biggest, scariest numbers they can in order to invoke fear and drive up clicks. I even read a story a few days ago that reported the total cases over the last four days in Alberta. Why four days? To report a bigger number of course.

The ICU numbers are the important ones. But if our media reports them at all, it’s as an afterthought.

#73 Pylot Project on 08.09.21 at 4:05 pm

Vaccine communist pass? What are people so scared of? Tracking? If that’s the case I hope you never use a smartphone or a credit card in the grocery store, or buy anything online for that matter. People like me track you all day long (disclosure, I work in ecomm).

As a healthy* Type II diabetic, I take 5 different meds per day. I get the annual flu shot. I’ve also had the Shingrix vaccine against shingles. I’ve had AstraZeneca dose one and Moderna for dose two, and somehow I am still able to live and tell the tale. You’re scared of one vaccine and I’m a walking talking pharmacy.

btw… Big pharma has been working on vaccines such as these for well over a decade. They did not come from magic beans.

#74 When Will They Rase Rates? on 08.09.21 at 4:07 pm

he people getting whacked now are almost entirely the unvaccinated. – Garth

That’s not true.

34% of new cases reported in York Region IN THE LAST 7 DAYS were FULLY VACCINATED.

It’s right there on their website:

https://www.york.ca/wps/portal/yorkhome/health/yr/covid-19/covid19inyorkregion/01covid19inyorkregion/!ut/p/z1/tZJLT-MwFIV_C4suI187SW0vTeg0CTQtjz7iTZVJ09RMk5SMKTC_fhxUJISgMGLshV-6Plfn80ESLZCss70qM62aOtuacyr7y0gMozA8h3jssQAEjEVMKIMBx2j-XAAfDAFIfuX9kQJ5XH6GJJK7XK1QStyCspwzh4KfO16W9x2Of67MxNc-5-uMd3JI5rXe6Q1Kn9pl3tS6qHUPnpr2lzn81krfP19smqowc5Ft9aYHebNXKwfzww5zVXcv2qI0mHoA-J1rFH_m3cAl7SgYlcZBpjeOqtcNWrz0OuzeiC7e72Wk1O3dnRTGXufpUaOFbX_zDuZrh8Nr5kE0i6mY4TF4kXsoIMTrhziAGMIxg-gHnfhnLMRwTg4FR_43NfmgH0K8Imi-V8UDmtZNW5m8Xv9jHMKXDpQFIhRDmMDNlMLlgHqsfzGaXFzhb3b4xIBledeqPAW78sSu_P-BE0cQYNHF3x24IEgUsFM3Zklil31il31il31iN_ez78LZVdNpxVx_WzLNo1u_rJZnp4mTxvs_R5eRODn5Cx0G6fA!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/#.YRBGkDNE0zQ

Now, if we factor in all of the asymptomatic vaccinated who didn’t get tested, it’s possibly the MAJORITY of new cases being fully vaxxed.

Two-thirds of new infections were unvaccinated and there is no data on whether the other third were one dose, two doses or beyond the two-week period necessary for protection to build. In any case, the numbers prove vaccines provide more protection than no vaccines. Duh. – Garth

#75 Nonplused on 08.09.21 at 4:08 pm

A further thought on testing:

If Alberta is at 80% for first dose and probably can expected to be 80% for second dose in the next couple of months, what use is all the testing of healthy people? It’s not like Alberta isn’t testing, they are still testing the sick. They just aren’t running drive through testing stations anymore. Why pay for it if it isn’t providing useful data?

On vaccine passports:

These should be available for people who wish to travel, much as a regular passport is. We can’t control what Quebec does so if you need to go to Quebec the Alberta government should produce a card for you proving vaccination. This would be easy to do as they are recording all vaccinations to the other data attached to your Alberta Health Care number.

Alberta could also require passports of travelers to Alberta I suppose.

But having to show a passport to go into a bar, Costco or Stamps game? That seems excessive to me. These “unvaccinated” people will be among us no matter what and at least some contact with them is unavoidable.

Garth, you used the seatbelt analogy above. The logic is correct, they do save lives and reduce injuries. I wear mine all the time. But I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about whether other drivers are wearing theirs. It’s not something I can control, nor do I feel the need.

Arguing with anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, and the like is a lot like wrestling with a pig. You both end up muddy, but the pig enjoys it!

Anyway let’s get the topic on the looming eviction crisis coming up! I have a lot to say about that!

#76 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 4:08 pm

This could go either way:

https://psyche.co/ideas/why-some-of-the-smartest-people-can-be-so-very-stupid?utm_source=pocket-newtab

#77 Brian on 08.09.21 at 4:12 pm

Is vaccination really the issue?
I was in a discussion with someone yesterday who was a clear 150 lbs overweight slamming the unvaxxed for risking burdening the healthcare system. Really? Your news networks won’t dare touch that issue though.

As far who is getting the vax and who isn’t, it will sure be interesting to find out the reaction when it hits the MSM who is being denied services in NYC as the vax rate among minorities is in the 30 – 40% range. The left is likely to cannabalize itself.

#78 When Will They Raise Rates? on 08.09.21 at 4:12 pm

* Raise

#79 "NUTS!" on 08.09.21 at 4:13 pm

“How many times does the same question have to be answered? Being vaxed lessens sickness, reduces strain on the health care system, reduces fatalities, allows society to renew normal activities, saves public resources and ends the pandemic faster. Most succumbing now are unvaccinated. They have chosen badly”. – Garth

I honestly believe it matters little how many times you answer, people are choosing to believe certain information sources. Sad, but a growing reality in the way information is distributed. And few people truly understand Science and data, but given the comments its clear they do not. They think they do, because they’ve read it somewhere. Dr Lovelock has it right that Gaia always wins. No different now.

#80 Tarot card on 08.09.21 at 4:13 pm

Thanks for the blog Garth
Lots of negative people today
My suggestion to Sam is read the facts ….they have been deceloping covid vaccines for 10 years, yep go look it up. That why it was able be very developed so fast.

As for passports fully agree they should be mandated until the idiots get the vaccine. Passports are temporary. If you all get vaccinated then we will not need a passport, did you ever think of that? Because of your refusal to get vaccinated then we have to make laws because of you. Take a deep breathe and think about it.
I will repeat for you, and type real slow so you understand…..because you are refusing to get vaccinating you are forcing the rest of us to get passports.

I laugh at people who scream freedom and privacy

Your cell phone, face book and all your credit cards track more than you ever could imagine.

People also scream I have rights, yes you do and I have rights too, did you ever think of that?

I am sick and tired of the minority of thinkers having the loudest voices, get on the train and and stop complaining.
The majority are speaking.

#81 Rook on 08.09.21 at 4:27 pm

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before:

“What do you call a Frenchman going, ‘papers, please'”?

Why do I sometimes feel like I’m the only one who ever studies history? Go back to literally any time, and take a look at when society starts dialling up the rhetoric to bifurcate its populations into the “sophisticated, elegant, clean, healthy” and the “unclean, vermin, plague rat dangers and threats to our way of life.”

Has that EVER ended well? Why will we avoid it this time?

#82 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 4:28 pm

@#33 Sad Samon 08.09.21 at 2:43 pm
#13 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 1:47 pm
Uh, because I was studying CRISPR technology at the time and Tracer RNA works differently, that’s why.

But thanks for your diatribe on trickle down economics not working. After all, Billionaires got that way by being more resourceful allocators of capital. which is why you get a better result giving Bezos $100,000 than a homeless guy… or a working poor stiff who got into debt trouble to begin with.

Though you yourself mentioned that the money eventually just ends up in the Billionaire’s pockets anyways, lets skip a step, including the unnecessary inflation hit that’s a painful tax on the working class.

You know inflation right…. that thing that occurred right before Regan, when America was apparently great. I think your deep personal experience is a rain puddle.

Don’t let thinking get in the way of your posts.

sure sam, sure. lol

#83 TurnerNation on 08.09.21 at 4:28 pm

Geez we went from “2 Weeks to Flatten the Curve” into “You cannot buy or sell without the Mark”.
Never saw that coming eh
And people accuse ME of being an insider.

#84 Dolce Vita on 08.09.21 at 4:30 pm

From the so called leaked CDC document circa Aug 3 (leaked on purpose by the CDC) and ignored by the Cdn and US MSM:

https://i.imgur.com/j1r0i5t.png

Consistent with what is happening in Europe, vaxd vs. unvaxd:

Infection 8X reduction
Hospitalization 25X reduction
Death 25X reduction

The Green Pass here in Europe is to keep unvaxd people away from crowded places where they can spread the disease to each other and on very, very rare occasion to the 2 dose vaxd.

It’s that simple.

#85 LesserApe on 08.09.21 at 4:32 pm

Also how about the data from Scotland, Israel, Malta, Gibraltar showing the majority of cases are in the vaxxed? (ie it’s not working!) Yet we are fed the opposite narrative from cherry picked data…

Yeah, believing that this data means “it’s not working” is a strong indicator of mathematical illiteracy. As Barbie says, “math is hard!”

Imagine a world where 10,000 people are vaccinated and five aren’t. Suppose five of the 10,000 vaccinated catch the virus, and four of the five that are unvaccinated catch it.

Then the majority of the infected people are vaccinated, yet it should be pretty obvious that the vaccination is working. (And the more people that are vaccinated, the more likely it is that the majority of infections will be in vaccinated people.)

#86 David S on 08.09.21 at 4:37 pm

#1 Brunett43 on 08.09.21 at 12:53 pm

HERE! HERE!!!!!

#87 mike from mtl on 08.09.21 at 4:38 pm

While certainly a first start, the land border is nowhere close open for tourism. Still have to do the tests both ways which are not free, no day trips to Niagara or Whistler.

To most Americans we’re basically a giant cancelled-no-fun California, sans climate.

#88 kommykim on 08.09.21 at 4:39 pm

RE:#48 truefacts on 08.09.21 at 3:18 pm
“In their latest COVID-19 update, Public Health England (PHE) experts also warned there were early signs that people who have been inoculated may be able to transmit the Delta strain as easily as those who have not received any jabs.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/6/nearly-35-percent-of-uk-delta-hospitalisations-fully-vaccinated
_____________________________________

Vaxxed/unvaxxed – just as easily transmitted…
from the UK (who has more experience than us).

Follow science or lock people out to make us feel better?

=======================================

Sounds like cherry picked data to make a great story. That’s only a two week interval:

“From July 19 to August 2, 55.1 percent of the 1,467 people hospitalised with the Delta variant were unvaccinated, PHE said, while 34.9 percent – or 512 people – had received two doses.”

Take data samples over a longer time period and see what the ratio is then…. ie: If there were 2 people in hospital with Delta and one was vaxxed, then is the ratio now 50%??

Now what’s the ratio of deaths of vaxxed vs unvaxxed when infected with Delta?
Also, absolute numbers of infections in the UK are way down as more and more are vaccinated.

#89 Barb on 08.09.21 at 4:44 pm

“If you’re unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things.”

Perfect solution.

But now they’ll scramble to forge the document…sigh.

#90 Dan hartnett on 08.09.21 at 4:46 pm

Only one question we need to be asking here folks. It’s very simple. Did Edward Snowden get the shot?

#91 Prairieboy43 on 08.09.21 at 4:48 pm

Another reason to Never read the “comments section”, of Greater Fools blog.

#92 For all the wanabe Nazis - so called vaxx pass on 08.09.21 at 4:49 pm

DELETED

#93 mgfreft on 08.09.21 at 4:55 pm

Vaccine passport aka social credit score.

just lmao at the fraud the west tries to perpetuate that it is somehow more free and democratic than China.

#94 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.09.21 at 5:01 pm

@#90 Prairie Boy

True and the full moon isnt for another two weeks.

Top viewing for the Perseids meteor shower is Fri 13th and Sat 14th.

Are the locusts still stuck to everyone’s bumper and grills in Saskabush?

#95 Blacksheep on 08.09.21 at 5:02 pm

So many fearful people.

Does anyone actually believe, they will never be exposed to C-19?

You (we all) will live, or die, based on your (our) genetic luck of the draw, how healthily you (we) lived your (our) life (lives) combined with a little scientific voodoo magic intervention.

Major societal pressure to get your two shots, then you get the passport…ok, understood. (I got the jab)

How bout the next Lamborghini variant?

Will you lose your passport, unless you get the latest shot?

When does this end?

Neil Oliver speaks from the heart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTkWd_3mAXQ

#96 Linda on 08.09.21 at 5:06 pm

People say ‘my body, my choice’. Normally I’d agree, except Covid isn’t self isolating in the carrier. It spreads. So it isn’t ‘my body, my choice’, it is ‘my body, my choice & too bad if you get sick or die because of it’. Because you know, those ICU’s have spare capacity for anyone who has any other serious illness or injury that might require the facility. So if the unvaccinated get serious Covid & take up all the spots, guess what happens to everyone else who might need help? Plus hey, its only money & I pay taxes, so may as well run up a hefty health care bill because my healthcare is ‘free’. And if by not bothering to vaccinate happens to breed a variant that does an end run around any vaccines out there, again, my body, my choice & who cares if it costs more? Aren’t I worth it? Frankly, no. Your choice to run for the Darwin Award winner of the year shouldn’t be imposed on the rest of us.

#97 cramar on 08.09.21 at 5:08 pm

It is interesting that in nations and jurisdictions when a vax passport is mandated, immediately vaccinations shoot up. The gives more emphasis to authorities who want more people vaccinated. A positive feedback loop. Hence vax passporting will only increase. Welcome to the new reality.

#98 TMac on 08.09.21 at 5:10 pm

“The premier said lockdowns are no longer a tool. So a passport will be the hammer of compliance”.

I seem to remember reading something like this in the past. I didn’t understand it because the narration was in German.
The thought that people in this country do not understand that this evolves into further control beyond “show us your papers” is absurd.
Throughout history this has happened and it can happen here.

What do you not understand about ‘pandemic’? – Garth

#99 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 5:13 pm

You’re going to delete anti vax posts, because you can’t handle anyone having a different view from your….there are words for that. But don’t tell me B.S. about settled science. Science never settles and you know as well as anyone, you’re a smart guy. This won’t be the last vax you put into your body to stop Covid. Covid will have 100’s iterations before you get used the life’s risks. Are you comfortable putting in a vax every year? Every 6 mos…? Cause this is what you’re agree to. It’s not 1 vax…it’s 100’s of vaxs. This won’t end well. Your favorite words for RE. 7 billion people will never be vaxed…and the vax causes mutations just like antimicrobial dish soap. THERE IS NO END. You don’t end this. You live with it. Giving up more control to the government has never ended well. No matter how you feel about vax.

How is being vaccinated against an infectious disease, and helping others avoid it, surrendering to the government? You guys have a defect. – Garth

#100 Reximus on 08.09.21 at 5:16 pm

“If someone who is vaccinated can still contract Covid and carry the virus then that would mean the virus can still mutate and be passed on to others as a new mutated strain. So since the vaccines do not prevent Covid, I don’t see how these vaccines will stop the spread of Covid.”

let me help you with that…if you are vaxxed and you contract covid your re-infectious period has been shown to drop on avg. from 9+ days to 2 days, because your antibodies kill the virus that much more quickly. This means you dont have the illness long enough that it can easily mutate, and you wont re-transmit at anywhere near the rate of an un-vaxxed case

#101 WDL on 08.09.21 at 5:18 pm

Get vaxed if you want. I’m not, Garth. Don’t let me on an airplane, go to a sports event, concert, etc….. I DON’T CARE! I have my house, I have all the food I need, I own a farm. Go ahead and make my day…..Call for a vaccine passport! IDC!!!!!

#102 BNTXMRNA on 08.09.21 at 5:18 pm

let’s have both vaccines and continue to fly to travel anywhere in the world and thus help accelerate climate change

#103 Fakin bacon on 08.09.21 at 5:29 pm

DELETED

#104 Bob on 08.09.21 at 5:30 pm

Two-thirds of new infections were unvaccinated and there is no data on whether the other third were one dose, two doses or beyond the two-week period necessary for protection to build. In any case, the numbers prove vaccines provide more protection than no vaccines. Duh. – Garth

Yes. The poster also overlooks some nuance here. Testing positive does not mean that you are contagious. (For example, a little girl in our neighbourhood tested positive after being exposed at day care but showed zero symptoms and passed the virus to no one.) The best evidence to date says that fully vaccinated individuals are both dramatically less likely to wind up in the hospital and dramatically less likely to pass the disease to others.

#105 Lipids on 08.09.21 at 5:35 pm

This comment provides a good example of why other anti-vax posts will be deleted today, and going forward. the mRNA vaccines do not (of course) alter a person’s DNA. “DNA is stored in the protected centre of our cells – the nucleus. The mRNA is broken down quickly by the body. It never enters the nucleus, and cannot affect or combine with our DNA in any way to change our genetic code. Instead, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines teach the cell how to make a protein that triggers an immune response specific to COVID-19. The vaccines work with the body’s natural defences to develop immunity to disease.” Ignorance, willful blindness, cowardice and selfishness and the four horsepeople of the Unvaxed. Sad to behold. – Garth

——–

Makes sense Garth. Stifle discussion on your own blog, on which in you invite discussion by allowing comments instead of closing them because of one comment.

The magic word is LIPIDS. There have been serious issues with those and the reaction to them is significant. These lipids were so toxic many other companies pulled out of research and declared mRNA treatments as not feasible due to safety. Only vaccines made sense, and they apparently felt there was no money in that path due to research and approval times. Serious safety issues were present and reported with the lipids in which mRNA was wrapped as recently as 2018 with the latest formulations. Makes you wonder what has changed over such a short period.

Also, the long term concerns are valid and fair. We’re not blind – we see new side effects appearing with time like this Bell’s palsy.

I think we need to stop this right/wrong rhetoric and agree that while we want vaccines to work and solve this for us, data over the past few weeks has indicated that this will not be the case. It will not the silver bullet we were hoping it would be. It is not black and white as we wished it would be. Coronavirues are clever – as nature tends to be. Now what?

Oh yeah, and Passports? Now that we know vaccinated are just as likely to be infected as non-vaccinated and represent up to 40% of hospitalized, can we agree that all this mobility the vaccinated are demanding and international travel is misplaced and a perfect mobility vehicle for new variants to hitch a ride where it wishes to go?

#106 They are trying to prevent the collapse on 08.09.21 at 5:36 pm

So now it is a privilege to live in your own country born in. So someone comes here as an illegal with no documents and gets vaccinated and is a Canadian now but someone who is born all his life, paid taxes and worked, lived for say 40 years and does not get vaccinated is now not Canadian.

If this is the mentality now than you are all in for a big surprise because they will have passports for everything. You don’t want to do anything they say they will make you a non Canadian. If you think can’t happen they are going the China Communist, Marxist route social credit system but looks like for everything. Your religion, economic, financial, health, where you live etc. Good luck world.

#107 Wrk.dover on 08.09.21 at 5:36 pm

I wish the resistance had as much passion about the way the World’s ecosystem is being depleted into a dead zone, rather than waste time flogging this dead horse of a topic.

Oops, they don’t grasp that fact either.

Wrong and wronger, but consistent!

#108 vacci'Nation on 08.09.21 at 5:38 pm

#23 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 2:26 pm

#15 Russ on 08.09.21 at 1:59 pm
For the record, I am pro-vaccine (the wife & I have two Pziser shots each) but I am against a “passport” or having any requirement to prove my status.
—————————
Oh Russ is so special, thinks he should not have to show a passport on the border.
The vaccine passport is necessary, so that those who are vaccinated can go to Canucks games and parties and those who are not have to stay home and mob how unfair live is.
You already made the first important steps, so why not get the hand stamp, showing that you’ve paid the admission to the PNE

_________________________________________________________

Another example where someone (mistakenly) thinks they are helping the “vacci’Nation movement. Speaking of being special ….using the Canucks as an example … how laughable is that. Like many others, I didn’t go to Canucks games before Covid … why would I choose to go now? Besides, why would I contribute to the salaries of spoiled hockey players … half of which won’t show up even if I were paying an exhorbitant fee to watch them.

Just another example of someone framing everything from their perspective … and they probably have their entire lives.

#109 Sam on 08.09.21 at 5:42 pm

#65 SunShowers on 08.09.21 at 3:47 pm

Funny, I didn’t know everyone who was vaxed had this highly informed background… I guess I’m always on a bathroom break when our leaders and medical experts so clearly explain the process to the degree that dispels any concerns people may have over what they’re being forced to take.

And all this time I thought they were just being profane, showing empty distain and threatening people’s rights if they don’t take it. I must be getting the wrong media.

Thank you sun showers… I hope I can be as smart as you some day.

#110 Non-sexuitir on 08.09.21 at 5:42 pm

#88 Barb on 08.09.21 at 4:44 pm

“If you’re unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things.”

Perfect solution.

But now they’ll scramble to forge the document…sigh.

_________________________________________

Oh, Barb … I’m tempted to say something condescending and sexist like … “don’t worry your pretty little head about such things. There are people much brighter than you to solve such issues!”

But I don’t want to end up in hot water like Garth and his [email protected] comments. So instead …. I’ll choose to say nothing.

#111 Charity on 08.09.21 at 5:46 pm

I love it when I see a post where you know Garth is ready to put the gloves on! Makes one bristle with pride. Hey Garth maybe they need to offer up a vaccine consisting of lavender and oregano oil to help those that aren’t dosed yet. Let’s see the test results from that!

#112 Cici on 08.09.21 at 5:50 pm

Yes, bring it on!

We all need to get vaxxed, stay vaxxed as and when necessary, get over ourselves and show our proof of vaccination so we can beat back this bug and taste REAL freedom again.

Seriously, this bug is war and if we want to beat it, we’ve all got work together and get organized and fast.

Thank you Garth for everything you do, day in and day out. We need more of your kind and I for one am incredibly thankful for your efforts. You are a top-notch guy and if I were a billionnaire lady, I’d clone you for the good of society, and give Dorothy licensing rights and royalties, of course ;-)

#113 Tim on 08.09.21 at 5:52 pm

Wrk.dover what happen to the big threat of acid rain the the 80’s, 90’s. I thought we were all going to die by now. We were supposed to be all dead 12 years ago with global warming. Now it is climate change. You guys keep changing the fear, terror to keep prolonging this. I know it takes decades for the UN and others to brainwash a generation or two through the public school system. I feel sorry for the kids now as they will be screwed up for the rest of their lives.

#114 Chimingin on 08.09.21 at 5:52 pm

Lipids, I think the fat has gotten to your brain. As Bugs Bunny would say, of you and everyone else commenting on this blog who is anti-vaxx or pearl-clutching at their supposed loss of freedoms, “What a maroon!”

In other words, Lipids, shaddup. You’re boring me.

#115 Reximus on 08.09.21 at 5:56 pm

pre-vax, if you were infected you would not be infectious to others for about 4-5 days, and that state would last another 5-8 days.

post vax, if vaccinated and still exposed to covid, you are most likely to be infected for less than those 4-5 days because your antibodies kill the covid. you will most likely (like 99%) not be a risk to others if you get covid after getting vaxxed

#116 First time poster #73 on 08.09.21 at 5:59 pm

Have been a reader of this here pathetic blog for many years- learned much about ETF’s, bonds, housing and Realestate, and endured so many opinions. Good, Bad, and unlovely -but today read the best comment ever.

#14 Ustabe… I thank you for your life changing advice.

#117 Diamond Dog on 08.09.21 at 5:59 pm

Strategy for a bear market: do nothing. They’re always short and always followed by a bull. – Garth

Do nothing in a bear market except buy in. Entry point is everything. Of course, to be fully invested and unable to buy in is exactly what one wants to avoid which is why I’m fine with Garth’s 60/40! 40 pays garbage thanks to the way the Fed has handled things, but its still the best defense/offense for a bear market.

One has the option to cash in a portion to all of 40 and go bottom fishing during a bear market which still has risks (you enter too early or late) but regardless, it will always be better to enter the market at the bottom of a bear than the top of a bull with dry powder as entry point really is everything. Btw, we won’t break 40:

https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe

Entry points like Moderna. Up 2400+% since early last year…

https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/mrna

I’m fine with a vax passport but then, I’m not a chronic complainer like the rest the bitches out there. Stoicism is not a whiner’s trait, required reading for an anti science Luddite fashioned pride of the U.S. public/private education system (plus said gene pool):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

We really do suck at dealing with our own pain, don’t we? (see Ethics in link above) The human race really does come up short at times but vaccines and passports aren’t on my mind much today. Today, it’s about this. Ironically, it gives us false hope with the belief that we have more time than we really have, even though the report is called “code red”. But, that’s all I have time for and wish everyone well:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/09/ipcc-report-un-climate-report-delivers-starkest-warning-yet.html

#118 Narrative on 08.09.21 at 6:00 pm

I enjoy the narrative.

Only the unvaccinated are getting the virus. Ignore what the CDC just said that unvaccinated are just as likely to carry and spread in same loads in their sinuses as unvaccinated. 75% of infections reported in one regions were vaccinated.

Only the non-masked wearing people are getting and spreading the virus. Yeah, sure. Everyone else is perfectly safe, especially those cloth mask wearing people, or everyone who puts their mask in the pocket, purse, wrist, touches it, and keeps same mass for days and weeks.

Only the grabby young people are spreading and getting it.

Oh brother. Spare me. This virus is not choosing. Vaccinated and unvaccinated. Masked and unmasked. Young and old. Just like every other Coronovirus. And just like every other virus, it is more deadly to those 65+

#119 Steve french on 08.09.21 at 6:01 pm

good lord there’s a whole lot of dumb commenting going on today from the steerage section.

The anti-vaccer lunatics are out in full force!

And mostly it’s the men it seems.

So we can have [email protected]

And [email protected] (the weird anti-vaccer man at greater fool)

#120 Diamond Dog on 08.09.21 at 6:03 pm

#15 Sam on 08.09.21 at 1:49 pm

I’m fine with anyone who owns their own mistakes. :)

#121 Lipids on 08.09.21 at 6:07 pm

#112 Chimingin

Oh brother. Lipds – aka nanoparticles. Look it up. Here, let me spoon feed you a little.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/

Garth, you should do it. COMMENTS FREE WEDNESDAY.

Everyone gets a day off.

#122 not a matter of if but when on 08.09.21 at 6:10 pm

Steve french i want to see your face when the government comes after you for something you are not willing to do and think you have rights. You know you are a slave and think they will not take stuff away at the minimum. It does not work that way, communists, marxists are an equal theft ideology.

#123 Diamond Dog on 08.09.21 at 6:11 pm

#115 Steve french on 08.09.21 at 6:01 pm

And mostly it’s the men it seems. – Steve french

It so often is. We can have it all here @greater fool “et nous pouvons même parler français!”

#124 zxcvbnm on 08.09.21 at 6:11 pm

Hey So basically I’m just gonna not take the vaccine I Know….. UGH I know… It’s just that I’m not gonna take it is all HAHAHAHAHRHAHAHA HARAHARHARH

#125 Dmitry on 08.09.21 at 6:11 pm

the mRNA vaccines do not (of course) alter a person’s DNA

– Garth

Garth, that statement is likely correct, in most cases, but it is not a fact. To say that something cannot happen you need very strong standard of proof. You have not gotten one in this case. There is no proof that all of the mRNA vaccine recipients would have had the exact same DNA in the absence of these vaccines as what they have now. DNA is not constant, and some DNA material is acquired horizontally.

#126 Reximus on 08.09.21 at 6:14 pm

so, the US will require all servicemen to be vaxxed by sept 15….and of course the alt-right loons freaked out.

wait til they find out that this only one more of the 18 vaccines they are already required to take…

also it seems the us navy has taken some steps already to see about covid vax effectiveness, five ships have 100% vaxxed crews and 5 dont have any requirement, havent heard the result yet

#127 Doug t on 08.09.21 at 6:14 pm

Come on Garth have a sense of humour – post my poetics

#128 Blobby on 08.09.21 at 6:16 pm

Im sorry, I have to ask.. @#104 Lipids

How do you THINK vaccines work? ANY vaccine? Of course you’re just as likely to be infected with a vaccine as without.

A vaccine doesnt create some magical barrier around you to prevent you from being infected by selfish people who wont even wear a mask, and are scared of a tiny needle.

A vaccine gives your body the tools to FIGHT the virus if you’re infected by it.

This isnt rocket science. I can only assume that in biology class you were too busy looking at the anatomy pictures in the textbook, instead of listening and learning? Most of us learned how vaccines work at a fairly early age.

My mind boggles when it comes to some of the anti-vax scaredy cat excuses/reasoning. Why not just admit you’re selfish and are scared of a tiny needle? Why try to justify your selfishness with absolute nonsense?

#129 Reximus on 08.09.21 at 6:17 pm

garth if you were still a pol, what’s more politically problematic: mask mandates or vax mandates?

#130 Bill Shepherd on 08.09.21 at 6:20 pm

Vaccine has gone to your brain cells garth – wiping out our freedoms, you may know a thing or two about real-estate, but you’re clueless on science and liberty.

#131 Adam on 08.09.21 at 6:21 pm

I’ll repeat what I said before. If the government had not lied to us about masks, then I would be fully vaccinated right now. I got covid because I didn’t wear a mask for the first 2 months of covid because the government lied to us and said “MASKS DO NOT HELP”. Turns out, they were wrong. Simple question for you Garth – if they were wrong about that, how can we trust them when they say that this non-FDA approved vaccine is “Totally safe”. BTW the government was also wrong for about 40 years with the food pyramid. They told us to eat white bread and that eggs were bad for us. Science is being proven wrong every day, so if you consider it gospel then you’re going to get burnt. What if it turns out the vaccines cause long term cellular damage 20 years down the road? Unlikely. VERY UNLIKELY….. but… not impossible.

#132 Control Freaks on 08.09.21 at 6:22 pm

You mean I have to fully believe the government and it’s agencies about my health. Let me see, look what the Bank of Canada and mostly Liberal, NDP governments ahve done over the decades.

They are very good managers of Canada’s finances, money. They are not. They are make all our money more worthless by the second, money printing billions weekly, buying bonds like they water, cutting interest rates to about 0%. Look at 1.3% to 2% mortgage rates, GIC rates in the 1.5% to 2% rarely or less. Rewarding debt junkies and making everything super expensive , higher inflation, higher prices, higher taxes etc.

If they manage Canada’s money this way I am so trustworthy in Canada’s healthcare system and health related measures they take. What a bunch of BS. What is the difference between vaccine passports, certificates been forced down our throat and other health mandates versus economic tyranny from high taxes to low interest rates to Canadian dollars low rate and devaluation of all our money. You guys don’t want to see the truth because you are benefiting from the forcing of others to do what you want and get a kick out of it. Nothing but a bunch of control freaks. leave people alone.

#133 Ustabe on 08.09.21 at 6:23 pm

Thank you sun showers… I hope I can be as smart as you some day. You probably won’t make it there I suspect.

Oh, and chirping at KLNR for something I wrote plus your additional comments today…well, keep on posting, always open to new ideas and fresh thoughts on any subject. Especially well thought out and based in fact ones.

#134 Toronto_CA on 08.09.21 at 6:24 pm

Garth, I live in the UK. Vaccine passports are used for travel – for large events you can just show proof of 2 x vac OR that you’ve had a negative test result using the same app instead of the vaccine.

It’s not a vaccine passport in the UK, not YET anyway. They’ve been rejected by a cross parliamentary committee. Still to see if they will be used, it seems it was just a scare tactic to get young people to take the vaccine. It isn’t working very well as first jab daily numbers keep dropping (18k only today).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/05/covid-vaccine-passports-will-not-required-sports-matches-concertscertificate/

Admittedly, it’s evolving but right now it’s not a requirement, unlike in France where they are rioting about it.

#135 Canadian Male on 08.09.21 at 6:27 pm

Is this the CCP or Greater Fool?! Silencing opposing viewpoints! Gross – media cherry picks info – pls do your due diligence on this topic as well as the topic of FREEDOM.

Civil war brewing

#136 Fata on 08.09.21 at 6:29 pm

It is not the door. It is the wall. Just like the Berlin Wall. Papiers. It looks like the financial industry will cease to exist as they will have no need for financial planning, investments etc. The government will provide everything and we all know how that works out. Les Miserables.

#137 Anne on 08.09.21 at 6:30 pm

It amazes me that readers here have to access the internet to read this blog, but have to hav Mr. Turner explain how the mRNA vaccines work and the benefits of vaccination when all this information is available on line.
Is Twitter and Facebook the only resource for these people? How sad.
If people want to get educated, listen to Dr.Peter Lin on the CBC podcasts. He presents this info in a very simple way.
Just an FYI: no vaccine is 100% effective and in the elderly it is less effective than in the young.
These new variants are much more contagious and can affect both vaccinated and non vaccinated. But it is mostly non vaccinated people who are being hospitalized now.
By non vaccinating, you are encouraging other variants to mutate and infect yourselves and eventually infect others.
So by non vaccinating, you are selfish in not wanting to protect others.
Even if you caught Covid, you are only protected for 6-8. months and do need the vaccine to protect you from the new variants. But with two vaccines and having caught Covid, you are better off than most.
Vaccination is allowing your body to develop antibodies ( a fighting army) to fight against the Covid virus.How is this difficult to understand? It is not a conspiracy.
Living in a society , one has to make compromises to protect other members of the society.
If you get stopped during RIDE inspections, in Ontario, where police check your drivers licence , check to see if you have been drinking, do,you refuse and protest that your human rights are being compromised. Drunk driving affects others.
A vaccine passport will protect other members of society .
Wearing face coverings will protect you and others.
If you order not want to do that, go find a cabin in the woods, away from society and contemplate on your human rights.
But vaccination from this Covid virus, is your obligation to live in our society. It is societies’ right , not yours.

conform.

#138 Paul B on 08.09.21 at 6:30 pm

I yearn for the days when we were free of coercion to get an experimental inoculation whose long term consequences are unknown. Certainly the ADE reaction to viruses in laboratory experiments should give one pause.

#139 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 6:32 pm

#25 The Jag
Resources are being re-directed. Choices have to be made. Remember too, Calgary has the largest ex-pat american population.
—————
Now I get it. Did not know that.
My guess is they are mostly from the Lone Star state.
Lots of Albertans moving there, in return.
Like an student exchange program, only just for people who like to walk around in large cowboy hats.
And adore the Trumpster.

#140 Toronto_CA on 08.09.21 at 6:32 pm

Also also – minority ethnic groups are much less likely to have taken the vaccines.

So good luck enforcing your medical apartheid by telling dark skinned people they can’t sit in your restaurant, sorry.

This whole idea is ridiculous and wrong. But please get vaccinated, seriously, it’s a good thing for your health and to keep hospitals free from covid patients (especially if you’re at risk due to age, obesity, or other factors!).

#141 Diamond Dog on 08.09.21 at 6:33 pm

#117 Narrative on 08.09.21 at 6:00 pm

Looks like I still have some time. The virus has changed in 2 fundamental ways with Delta. Firstly, it’s capability of infecting cells in airways has improved through mutation and natural selectivity. Secondly, Delta has increased it’s ability to replicate again, through mutation.

This is no longer the same virus. It’s going after younger people and the severity of outcome has increased. There were 130,000 confirmed cases in the U.S. on Friday and 75,000 cases today so far in the U.S. but the hospitalization rate has increased regardless of the numbers of vaccinated infected and to remind, this is early August when viral loads of infection are presumably at their lowest?

Just a few days back, the CDC has reminded us of the Basic reproduction number of Delta (5.0 to 9.5), on par with Chicken Pox (see chart):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

What has me wondering is just how China is going to manage keeping Delta out come winter is what I’d like to know. It’s not hard to imagine where this is going come winter with world daily charts where they are:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

#142 Sara on 08.09.21 at 6:41 pm

#116 Diamond Dog on 08.09.21 at 5:59 pm

I’m fine with a vax passport but then, I’m not a chronic complainer like the rest the bitches out there. Stoicism is not a whiner’s trait, required reading for an anti science Luddite fashioned pride of the U.S. public/private education system (plus said gene pool):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

We really do suck at dealing with our own pain, don’t we? (see Ethics in link above) The human race really does come up short at times but vaccines and passports aren’t on my mind much today. Today, it’s about this. Ironically, it gives us false hope with the belief that we have more time than we really have, even though the report is called “code red”. But, that’s all I have time for and wish everyone well:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/09/ipcc-report-un-climate-report-delivers-starkest-warning-yet.html
=============

Well, if our handling of the COVID-19 pandemic is any indication, we are not up to the task of dealing with the climate emergency that we are responsible for creating. And it is a much bigger problem than COVID-19. Sad times.

#143 david on 08.09.21 at 6:42 pm

will happily avoid the non essential events in Quebec, even as a double vaccinated.

It was not enough for Boomers to be expensive to society, now they want to lock down perfectly healthy but broke youngster just to feel a bit more secure.

#144 T on 08.09.21 at 6:44 pm

Mental illness is proving to be a major byproduct of the pandemic and the measures taken to curb spread. Unfortunately the most affected believe they are some kind of freedom fighters.

#145 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 6:50 pm

#82 TurnerNation on 08.09.21 at 4:28 pm
Geez we went from “2 Weeks to Flatten the Curve” into “You cannot buy or sell without the Mark”.
Never saw that coming eh
And people accuse ME of being an insider.
————–
“2weeks to flatten the curve. By Easter it will be over”.
How could this guy ever become President?
If you study American history for the last 40 years it is apparent:
Trump is not the cause, he’s the symptom.

#146 Bonobo on 08.09.21 at 6:51 pm

When the next ice age starts and temperatures start to fall, progressive liberals will figure out a way to blame conservatives as sure as night follows day…

#147 J on 08.09.21 at 6:52 pm

I can remember when wearing seatbelts became mandatory in Alberta. It was 1987. In the years leading up to this law, there was constant pushback from various individuals and groups decrying that their freedoms and rights were being abused and trampled on. I had empathy for the cops who had to enforce this new law – they had to deal with a fair amount of crap for the first year or so once the law took effect.

Can you imagine if the internet was as developed back then as it is now? There would be groups online organizing “stop the belt” rallies and so forth. There would have been even more ridiculous pandemonium and absurdity.

When the kids of today look back upon and study this pandemic 25 years from now, I think they will be somewhat embarrassed as to how many of their own parents were on the wrong side of history, spreading misinformation and making choices that were just plain wrong and illogical. There have been so many deaths and terrible health outcomes that were avoidable. The absolute miracle of the efficacious and overwhelmingly SAFE vaccines was there for the taking, yet so many people in “modern” society or “first” world countries are saying no to the vax?

And for the comments of #5 Sam, really? Really? NONE of the vaccines, including mRNA technology, alters your DNA. Go back to school. Study some science. Educate yourself. You are not only foolish, you’re dangerous since some other likeminded person may actually believe the crap coming out of your brain.

Fear, selfishness, ignorance, and a healthy dose of stupidity is on full display right now. Not our best moment on planet earth.

#148 Sara on 08.09.21 at 7:00 pm

#76 Brian on 08.09.21 at 4:12 pm
Is vaccination really the issue?
I was in a discussion with someone yesterday who was a clear 150 lbs overweight slamming the unvaxxed for risking burdening the healthcare system. Really? Your news networks won’t dare touch that issue though.
=============

Is obesity contagious?

#149 Editrix on 08.09.21 at 7:03 pm

My company says we will be back in the office by mid-October. We have filled out a survey of our preference – WFH, 1 to 3 days a week or full-time. Employees have to show proof of vaccination to return. Now, there is no guarantee that our preferences will be honoured. One employee, to make sure he won’t have to commute says that he isn’t going to provide proof.

Another co-worker has said that she will quit if she has to return to the office for anything other than important meetings. Fortunately our business has never been so busy so either she will find work quickly or to keep an experienced employee, the company will just let her WFH.

#150 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 7:05 pm

How is being vaccinated against an infectious disease, and helping others avoid it, surrendering to the government? You guys have a defect. – Garth

——-

tldr: Leaky vaccines precludes making them mandatory. Leaky vaccines promotes mutations. Leaky vaccines backed by covid passports infringe on people’s rights to freedom with false claims of immunity.

Because it’s mandatory, and because it doesn’t solve the problem – period. Sometimes life has no solutions and it’s messy, sometimes solutions cause extra problems. This is the time when your solution actually makes matters worse. This leaky vaccine will lead to more variants. You can’t inject 7 billion people all at once – so all you are doing is making this next version more likely to spread rendering the temporary solution obsolete.

Stress on the virus that is not killed, causes it to mutate. There are hundreds of cold viruses, there will be hundreds of Covid as well. And there is no known safety in hundreds of Covid shots not just killing people outright so you can’t just add a new booster shot every year. This virus is deadly to a few, but it’s ‘a pretty darn good option’…given all the deadly diseases that have proceeded it…count your blessings – things can be a whole lot worse.

This is a war, war means death. We aren’t willing to face death for freedom, then we don’t deserve it. The historians are correct on this one. The vax is not a conspiracy, but every step requiring compliance is.

You got your 80 percent compliance on vax. The vaccine drive is over. The rest of the people will get immunity naturally. I don’t run around solving other people’s health issues. We don’t have the right to slap food or cigarette’s out of people’s mouth to prevent hospitalization for obesity or cancer, you don’t have the right to force anyone to be healthy.

I pay my taxes so that when I do stupid things, I get to go to the hospital. If you agree that freedom is important, than you protect people’s stupidity – it’s a feature of freedom after all. The vax does protect people spreading it – there is no reason for a passport, none at all – it solves nothing. Like masks, they are false hopes.

If the vaccine wasn’t leaky, you’d have a valid point. Maybe in a few years you’ll get a vaccine that actually works, but until that happens, you have no right to mandate anything.

Could you have ever dreamed that we’d be facing vaccine passports today a few years ago? Widespread mask mandates? Lockdowns? What will we be facing in 3 years? Your set of predictions about the ‘pandemic being over’ is wrong. It will never be over, ever. Covid is better than all the things governments can do WITH covid to advance their powers over people.

This was easily predicted by anyone who saw the war from the beginning data set. Wrong postulates lead to incorrect predictions. In another year, you’ll still be doing the same things, except worse. What evidence from anywhere do you have to say that covid passports, or vaccines have given people their lives back? WHERE???

#151 DC on 08.09.21 at 7:05 pm

Scary thought folks. If these are the kinds of comments one is exposed to on a moderated and ‘upper brow’ blog, can you imagine the kind of things one can read on the wild west of the ‘open’ internet.

#152 Yukon Elvis on 08.09.21 at 7:06 pm

My doctor believes in the vax so i got both jabs. I feel safe enough. If someone does not want to get vaxed that is ok with me. If the unvaxed get sick and die that is their choice. If they transmit the virus to other unvaxed people who get sick and die that is their choice too. Those of us who got vaxed will be ok. Pro choice here. People should stop bossing other people around.

#153 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 7:11 pm

#88 Barb on 08.09.21 at 4:44 pm
“If you’re unvaccinated, unfortunately, you will not be able to participate in many things.”

Perfect solution.

But now they’ll scramble to forge the document…sigh.
————
Good try.
They caught a couple of guys with forged Covid passports.
3,500 each. Ouch.
Why are people so stupid.
Get the shots.
Get the passport. In a few months it’s over.
This is like kids scratching the scap, and not letting it heal.
Short term pain (not really that painful) for long term gain.
Oh I get it.
“My sacred personal freedoms have been infringed upon”
To hell with everyone else’s freedom.

#154 George S on 08.09.21 at 7:15 pm

Wow, say anything about “vaccine passports” and the lunatics really come out of the closet. You can probably trace which alt right “news” service or anti-vax “scientist” that they listen to regularly by their comments as well as estimating the elementary school grade level of their understanding of science and biology.

Most drug and vaccine approvals take a long time because in order to be sure that there aren’t going to be problems and that the treatment is effective you need to treat a large number of people. Normally you don’t get to do a trial of a new treatment on several hundred million people in a few months, it takes decades.
All of the preliminary studies have been done long time ago. mRNA vaccines have been in development for more than 10 years with initial studies being done on animals and then people just like every other vaccine that has ever been developed. Once all the ingredients in the mRNA vaccines have been shown to be safe and effective then all you have to do is tweak the mRNA to manufacture the antigens that are specific to the disease you want to prevent and away you go.
The FDA is promising to approve the mRNA vaccines in September so presumably the anti-vaccine crowd will finally shut up and go back into their holes/basements/bunkers and we can get on with our lives.

A vaccine passport gives people the freedom to choose whether they want to be vaccinated or not. It is perfect because it is their choice and they can’t complain about people infringing on their freedom. Just like if you choose not to get a Canadian Passport you can’t travel anywhere or if you choose not to get a driver’s license you can’t drive a vehicle, the people that choose not to get vaccinated may be denied access to certain services. It is totally on them and they can’t complain because it is their choice. If they choose to listen to their pastor or some sociopath on the alt-right news services rather than the public health experts there is no way that you are going to educate them into accepting vaccinations. Their brains are just not capable of learning to that level.

We really need to educate people about the concept of “public good” or doing something for the benefit of society. I think it is the basis of most religions but it seems to be lost in translation in most of them so we should probably do it in the schools. I think in christianity there was this guy that even sacrificed his life for the benefit of everyone and said things like people should treat the poor well and not persecute them. All sorts of things about public service, anyway. Personal sacrifice for the benefit of society as a whole. Sacrifice by a few for the benefit of many, etc.

#155 Paul on 08.09.21 at 7:24 pm

Quote:
“… and going forward. the mRNA vaccines do not (of course) alter a person’s DNA. “DNA is stored in the protected centre of our cells – the nucleus. The mRNA is broken down quickly by the body. It never enters the nucleus, and cannot affect or combine with our DNA in any way to change our genetic code.”

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/06/210611174037.htm
Discovery identifies a highly efficient human reverse transcriptase that can write RNA sequences into DNA

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/772105
Discovery identifies a highly efficient human reverse transcriptase that can write RNA sequences into DNA

And the scientific paper can be found here:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/24/eabf1771

#156 Gary on 08.09.21 at 7:28 pm

CHRIS L. I guess this is what they call clown world. Today with the media backing all these things from Covid to inflation numbers, the good are bad, the smart and are stupid, the unvaccinated are bad, vaccinated are good, printing money in trillions is good, cutting government and expenses is bad. I think there is going to be alot of poverty and war in coming years.

I agree with you, the government and it’s partners like central banks, NGO’s, UN, World Bank, IMF etc. already has too much power and influence and it is making the world worse.

#157 The West on 08.09.21 at 7:31 pm

“Totalitarian leaders, whether of the right or of the left, know better than anyone else how to make use of fear. They thrive on chaos and bewilderment. The puppets dance in the heads of the uneducated masses who do not realize the trick that is being played on them. The strategy of fear is the most valuable tactic of authoritarian aspirations.”

Joost Meerloo, The Rape of the Mind

https://www.amazon.ca/Rape-Mind-Psychology-Menticide-Brainwashing/dp/1614277877

#158 T on 08.09.21 at 7:36 pm

#139 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 7:05 pm

Brought to you by world leading virologist, Chris L.

What a joke.

#159 4 Things You Shouldn't Talk About on 08.09.21 at 7:36 pm

-Politics,
-Religion,
-Money,
-Vaccination,

#160 billnye on 08.09.21 at 7:41 pm

Quote:
“… and going forward. the mRNA vaccines do not (of course) alter a person’s DNA. “DNA is stored in the protected centre of our cells – the nucleus. The mRNA is broken down quickly by the body. It never enters the nucleus, and cannot affect or combine with our DNA in any way to change our genetic code.”

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/06/210611174037.htm
Discovery identifies a highly efficient human reverse transcriptase that can write RNA sequences into DNA

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/772105
Discovery identifies a highly efficient human reverse transcriptase that can write RNA sequences into DNA

And the scientific paper can be found here:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/24/eabf1771

—————-

I find this is a hallmark of antivaxxers – they find something they don’t understand and make their own conclusions.

Spoiler for you: this doesn’t apply to the type of RNA used in vaccines. They are not the same as polymerases.

#161 RWZM on 08.09.21 at 7:41 pm

Name any precedent for instituting something analogous to a vaccine passport–despite this pandemic being infinitely benign compared to other things we’ve been through historically.

There is zero chance that it will stop here. You’ll be showing a lot more proof of a lot more things at the door of a lot more places if you buy into this.

#162 david on 08.09.21 at 7:42 pm

#147 Sara “Is obesity contagious”

No but they weigh a lot to the health care system.
If people don’t want to heal un-vaccinated people, why should we pay for the ones who can’t stop eating junk food and don’t know what walking is?

#163 TurnerNation on 08.09.21 at 7:43 pm

DELETED

#164 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 7:44 pm

#139 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 7:05 pm

Brought to you by world leading virologist, Chris L.

What a joke.
_________

Yes, I studied viruses. Is there something I wrote with which you disagree?

#165 Dale on 08.09.21 at 7:44 pm

T, I hope your ready to get at least 20 or 30 Covid shots in coming years because this is what is coming. Maybe they should give the shot in everyone’s ass.

#166 billnye on 08.09.21 at 7:49 pm

#149 Chris L.

– Leaky vaccines? Is that a scientific term?

I love this antivax stuff. It’s like looking in a funhouse mirror. They make up their own terminology and it gets replicated all over facebook to end up here. What a world.

#167 Classical Liberal Millennial on 08.09.21 at 7:51 pm

I was completely against the idea but as it appears cases will continue to rise now, it may come down to one of the following:
-severe restrictions like we’ve seen for the past 18 months
-life with no restrictions that could lead to the collapse of the health care system
-vaccine passports for non-essential services

That’s a no brainer and if you pick A or B, you’re out to lunch.

#168 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 7:52 pm

@#130 Canadian Male on 08.09.21 at 6:27 pm
Is this the CCP or Greater Fool?! Silencing opposing viewpoints! Gross – media cherry picks info – pls do your due diligence on this topic as well as the topic of FREEDOM.

Civil war brewing

LMAO!

#169 don't think your a preferred class on 08.09.21 at 7:52 pm

You guys don’t get it. They are going to reduce the population. They have been doing it slow and are getting impatient. They want a quicker method.

#170 Blair on 08.09.21 at 7:53 pm

Garth,

It would appear that [email protected] will now be known as [email protected]:
https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/our-company/news-and-media/corporate-news/news-release/2021-07-29-canada-post-and-td-enter-strategic-alliance-to-expand-access-to-financial-services-for-canadians

#171 T on 08.09.21 at 7:58 pm

#139 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 7:05 pm

Brought to you by world leading virologist, Chris L.

#172 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 8:00 pm

#147 Sara on 08.09.21 at 7:00 pm

“Is obesity contagious?”

No, but it is preventable for the majority of people.

#173 Sara on 08.09.21 at 8:07 pm

#151 Yukon Elvis on 08.09.21 at 7:06 pm
My doctor believes in the vax so i got both jabs. I feel safe enough. If someone does not want to get vaxed that is ok with me. If the unvaxed get sick and die that is their choice. If they transmit the virus to other unvaxed people who get sick and die that is their choice too. Those of us who got vaxed will be ok. Pro choice here. People should stop bossing other people around.

=================
What part about “overwhelmed health care system” don’t you get?

#174 T on 08.09.21 at 8:09 pm

#163 Dale on 08.09.21 at 7:44 pm
T, I hope your ready to get at least 20 or 30 Covid shots in coming years because this is what is coming. Maybe they should give the shot in everyone’s ass.

—————

If that’s what it takes to protect myself and others, sign me up.

#175 the jaguar on 08.09.21 at 8:10 pm

Can we change the channel? This has progressed to lobsters trying to pull one another back in the pot. If they do issue passports here where I live I’ll be getting one and keeping it on the QT. Only my postcard from some gorgeous beach in January will offer up the clue.
Where is Non Plused with his rental eviction theory? I’m intrigued. Garth, pour yourself a scotch and just be thankful Marcia M didn’t post today. Amen.

#176 mj on 08.09.21 at 8:11 pm

it’s funny how you get the most comments when you talk about the vaccine. I know you did a poll a while ago. It would be nice to see a new poll of vaccinated or unvaccinated

#177 Bonobo on 08.09.21 at 8:12 pm

Folks, get over it.

V-Passports/V-ID are inevitable. Progressive Socialism/Marxism is growing and will continue to define the new world that is coming.

If you wish to participate fully in the world you will need a V-Passport. The bigger the population of the world the more control will be needed.

#178 Sara on 08.09.21 at 8:15 pm

#172 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 8:00 pm
#147 Sara on 08.09.21 at 7:00 pm

“Is obesity contagious?”

No, but it is preventable for the majority of people.
==============

Right. But since obesity is not contagious, there’s no chance of it collapsing our emergency health care system or overwhelming our entire health care system and hugely impacting those who are not obese.

To compare obese people to the anti-masker/anti-vaxer types as though obese people are a serious threat to the rest of us, is logical fallacy.

#179 Brian on 08.09.21 at 8:17 pm

Wasn’t there another time in history when a group of people were exiled from civilization because they were deemed to be dangerous?

Nobody suggests exile. You just won’t be on planes, at concerts, dancing, working out, cruising or dining in. Maybe being employed, too. Your choice. – Garth

#180 yvr_lurker on 08.09.21 at 8:18 pm

We’ve all had both doses in our household, but for day-to-day activities I am opposed to vaccine mandates/passports that the Gov’t controls. For international travel yes we should all have some vaccine passport. However, for going grocery shopping at No Frills are we really going to have some 16 year old at the door checking vaccine cards? Are the Wallmart greeters going to be given a task of checking vaccine papers? I hope that they have body armour to deal with this in small towns in Alberta. The vaccine protects me (hopefully) from making me learn what an intubator is. However, I can still pass Covid on to others even with all my shots.

I understand full well we can’t do any more lockdowns. However, a vaccine mandate for day-to-day things is a bridge too far. In 6 months when everyone needs their first booster shot, the passport certifying you had both shots will become increasing meaningless. Will the Gov’t then say that your passport has “expired” if you don’t have a booster shot within 6 months?…

I prefer the approach that CNN seems to be taken of focussing on case stories of those who are really sick or dying from COVID after not having their shots. Can’t help but think that the underlying purpose is to push those into action who have so far refused to take the shots. This seems like a better approach.

There is a balance between civil liberties and collective responsibility, and for me a vaccine passport for day-to-day routine jobs is too much. Even if restuarants demand this passport, I don’t care since we have both become more talented in the kitchen with the pandemic, and to save $$$ we only eat out about once a month anyway.

#181 astronaft on 08.09.21 at 8:19 pm

Seatbelt argument discussed:

Society has rules which are agreed upon by all, in order to function properly and to keep everyone safe. Seatbelts are a cheap, easy and effective way of minimizing the worst consequences of a motor vehicle accident, by keeping people inside the frame of the vehicle during a high speed impact. Most Governments have imposed laws which mandate the use of seatbelts, via threat of prosecution and legal sanction.

This compromise keeps everyone safe, at the expense of individual liberty – you cannot choose to not wear a seatbelt when travelling within a motor vehicle. Rather than leaving the decision up to a responsible individual decision-maker, the Government has dictated a safety intervention for the good of all.

Similarly, vaccines are a cheap, easy and effective way of minimizing the worst consequences of a Covid-19 infection. Because Covid-19 is a highly transmissible pathogen, anyone who chooses not to take up the vaccine is potentially putting everyone else in society at risk, by acting as a vector for the disease or even as a super-spreader. We do not allow people to drive on the roads without a seatbelt, or under the influence of alcohol, putting other motorists at risk. The Government should therefore also use the force of law to mandate the vaccine, or if not, to limit the freedoms of these selfish / reckless individuals, for the overall good of everyone else.

Discussion:

On face value, there is a valid similarity between the seatbelt and the vaccine. A seatbelt is designed to primarily protect the individual wearer (with a relatively minor secondary collective benefit; if you cause a crash and the occupants of the hit vehicle are also wearing seatbelts, you are less likely to fatally injury them, reducing your overall risk profile as a motorist). Likewise, the primary objective for the Covid-19 vaccination is to minimize the likelihood of the disease becoming severe for the individual, resulting in fewer hospitilations and deaths.

So we must ask, if the primary benefit of the seatbelt is to the individual wearing it, why don’t we leave it as a free choice? Wouldn’t a rational actor always make that choice for the cost / benefit alone, making the threat of prosecution redundant?

Licensing to be on the road:

The key aspect which needs to be understood is licensing. Road networks have evolved into very complex systems, with many rules in place in order to ensure traffic flows freely and to maximise driver safety. This is done for perfectly good reasons – if you look at examples of societies where the road rules are ill-defined or not adhered to, “chaotic outcomes” would be an understatement. We cannot accept a free-for-all, with an individual deciding to drive on the left on one day, and on the right on another.

Therefore, for practical necessity, unique standards must be imposed which govern the use of the Public Highway. These include, but are not limited to: the condition of the motor vehicle, the physical and mental state of the driver, the skills and conduct of the driver within the rules of the road, what the driver can and cannot do whilst operating the vehicle, limiting the speed of the vehicle. In other words — there is a demanded extra set of rules which apply to participate in the privilege of driving, which do not apply in normal everyday life. These typically fall under a licensing system, which Governments issue to certify that you have met the required standard, and that you are aware of the responsibilities of being a driver.

The fact that these rules are isolated to a single domain becomes clear by use of an example: I am perfectly legally entitled to stumble out of my house, having had 10 double whiskies and following a double cataract operation that has left me with totally blurred vision. I commit no offence as I stagger down the road and get into my car on the passenger side. I am only committing an offence if I slide over to the driver’s seat and start the engine, because I am then contravening the extra laws that come with the privilege of driving.

In this context and within this established framework of many driving regulations, the legal requirement to wear a seatbelt cannot reasonably be viewed as disproprtionate or onerous, and it falls within the reasonable limits of a driver’s responsibilities.

A Licence for regular life?

Having drawn the contrast between the rules of the road and the rules of everyday life, it therefore becomes clear that, in order to extend this principle to mandate vaccines or to impose restrictions upon the freedoms of the unvaccinated, “everyday life” also must transform to be viewed as “a privilege”, with participation in society being licensed by Governments.

This would be a profound inversion of the Liberal legal conventions which underpin our societies. Western democracies have typically had a Common Law approach to their legal systems, which guarantees the right of citizens to enjoy their freedom, unless and until they are limited by legitimate laws. We have never had a system in which everything is prohibited, and freedoms are doled out as privileges, by the whim of our Governments.

The cost / benefit of seatbelts vs vaccines

The benefits of seatbelts overwhelmingly outweigh the costs for all motorists – the only cost is a second of time to put the belt on or off when entering or exiting the vehicle, and minor restrictions on movement while inside the vehicle. Weighed against the severe threat of injury from being thrown outside the vehicle during a crash. This cost / benefit applies equally to all who wear the seatbelt, irrespective of age profile.

By contrast, vaccines provide a clear benefit for those who are at high risk from Covid-19, particularly those who are in older age groups, who experience a significant reduction of risk of hospitalisation and death, weighed against a minor risk of side effects. This is not the case for younger groups, who are already at far less risk of severe disease. For this group, the individual cost benefit is far less clear cut, as severe side effects appear to also be more likely. Here, the argument is that the young should get vaccinated for the protection of everyone else, which is dissimilar to seatbelt mandates.

As an additional note, it is important to state that there is a very big difference between a seatbelt and a medical intervention. Once you are dealing with the latter, medical ethics become a primary consideration – so to mandate a seatbelt is a much less ethically complex proposition than mandating a vaccine.

TL;DR

Because of the special safety requirements around driving, it is essential for Governments to license drivers and to restrict their behaviour using laws that do not apply in everyday life. Given the other areas of driving which are already mandated under such laws, seatbelt mandates are not disproportionate and have a very low cost / benefit ratio.

In order to enact the equivalent of seatbelt laws regarding masks or vaccine mandates, you have to apply the “special case” of The Public Highway to everyday life, and agree that it is appropriate for the Government to license every aspect of life in a similar fashion (as a privilege). I believe this suggestion is a gross over-reach of Government powers, a fundamental change to how we understand freedom and would conflict with individual human rights.

#182 AM in MN on 08.09.21 at 8:29 pm

Just finished a trip to Europe 4 weeks ago and drove across the border in SK back and forth.

Europe (Spain, through Denmark) was a lot easier.

Canada is paying a price by not being reasonable with fully vaxed, requiring what amounts to a $250 border tax and then a lot of hassle afterwards with apps and accounts for no logical reason other than the control freak nature of the Karens that run public health in Canada now.

What good is the vax if the “passport” still isn’t good enough? Having to have multiple covid tests hours apart from each other?

Also, I know people who have a legitimate fear of the vax because they have had Covid and recovered and then paid to get antibody tests to show they were immune. Significant sickness has been reported in those who had natural immunity and then layered the vax on top, but the antibodies don’t count for crossing borders or other activities that require the “passport”.

Huge business going on now in fake vax documents. Anyone relying on these docs for their safety is the type of person that feels safe after going through airport security.

There are risks in life, act accordingly.

Follow the real science, not the junk science.

#183 we are all screwed on 08.09.21 at 8:31 pm

Hey Classical Liberal Millennial, they want vaccine passports, certificate, ID cards whatever they want to call them for all services, essential and non-essential. Don’t tall me for only non-essential. They also are going to do it for everything. You guys are so trusting and gullible.

Even if we all comply, that will still not be enough. Like one poster stated, they are control freaks. They can’t let go the feeling of their power, control.

#184 Shaftburn on 08.09.21 at 8:32 pm

Garth, I’ve been reading your blog daily for over 10 years. Your blog entry on Smoking Man was, in my opinion your finest work, at 40 years old I shed a few tears. I’ve admired your work over the years, you have shown yourself to be very logical and level headed. Proven time and time again to be right on the issues at hand.

Respectfully, (and I do mean respectfully) your current stance of late on the Vax, and the push you’re doing just doesn’t fit with the person whom I’ve read for so many years.

#185 T on 08.09.21 at 8:33 pm

#164 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 7:44 pm
#139 Chris L. on 08.09.21 at 7:05 pm

Brought to you by world leading virologist, Chris L.

What a joke.
_________

Yes, I studied viruses. Is there something I wrote with which you disagree?

—————

Yes. Obviously. You’re a liar and a troll.

#186 Shawna on 08.09.21 at 8:36 pm

Don’t pay your taxes, Garth, your choice. There is no choice with government. we are all slaves, admit it. You can say you want to be a good slave or a bad slave.

#187 Flop… on 08.09.21 at 8:37 pm

This post will get laughed at just because the sincerity of it and probably will be misplaced amongst all the mud slinging.

About 3 years ago my mother in law came around to our apartment and her face was drooping.

My wife and I told her to go to the hospital immediately, she went and sat on her sisters couch for about six hours before deciding to go.

They ran all the tests, she looked like she’d had a stroke.

Turns out it was Bells Palsy, and she recovered about six weeks later with no visible signs of the episode.

She dodged a bullet.

Well, recently she went and got her second shot, which was Pfizer, and was o.k for a week or two but she suffered another episode of Bells Palsy and once again she is struggling to speak and looks like she had a stroke.

My wife who is off for the summer has been trying her best to help her out as much as possible but the recovery doesn’t seem to be as speedy as the first case.

Anyway, I was watching television on the weekend and on the ticker on the bottom of the screen it said Pfizer had issued a warning that it’s vaccine is unsuitable for sufferers of Bells Palsy.

Don’t know if it was what triggered the second episode, could be a coincidence but I don’t think they would have issued that warning if they hadn’t seen more than a few cases.

Just the luck of the draw, I guess, my wife and I received Moderna, felt crappy for a day after each injection, Father in law got Pfizer and had no side effects, never had Bells Palsy.

O.k time to wind it up, I guess what I’m try to say if you know someone that has suffered from Bells Palsy it is probably wise for them to try and get a shot of Moderna.

The article states that they’ve had 206 cases reported where people got Bells Palsy after receiving a Pfizer shot.

I could call it 207 cases but let’s just say it’s probably not worth to risk when other vaccines are available.

Would my mother in law want me to finish this post with a joke?

Yeah, she would, she knows my Southern Hemisphere sense of humour.

At least I can’t tell if she’s mad at me or not now…

M47BC

https://globalnews.ca/news/8092666/health-canada-bells-palsy-warning-pfizer-covid-vaccine/

#188 KLNR on 08.09.21 at 8:39 pm

@#169 don’t think you’re a preferred class on 08.09.21 at 7:52 pm
You guys don’t get it. They are going to reduce the population. They have been doing it slow and are getting impatient. They want a quicker method.

hehehe, if thats the case then I guess the anti-vaxxers are doing them a big favour.

#189 Yukon Elvis on 08.09.21 at 8:42 pm

#173 Sara on 08.09.21 at 8:07 pm
#151 Yukon Elvis on 08.09.21 at 7:06 pm
My doctor believes in the vax so i got both jabs. I feel safe enough. If someone does not want to get vaxed that is ok with me. If the unvaxed get sick and die that is their choice. If they transmit the virus to other unvaxed people who get sick and die that is their choice too. Those of us who got vaxed will be ok. Pro choice here. People should stop bossing other people around.

=================
What part about “overwhelmed health care system” don’t you get?
++++++++++++++++++++
No danger of that now. Too many of us have been vaxed and most of us soon will be.

#190 Do it now on 08.09.21 at 8:47 pm

T take them all now 20 or 30 shots. Why wait you will have much more protection now rather than waiting years down the road. Do whatever it takes.

#191 Father's Daughter on 08.09.21 at 8:48 pm

Garth, not sure where you get the energy to take on so many losers.
I’ve almost stopped caring about who gets vaccinated and who doesn’t. The sob stories are already hitting the news about those unvaccinated hospitalized/ill/dead. Of course it’s not you, until it is.
Florida woman pleading for an ECMO machine for her husband (won’t save him anyways and probably nobody available to operate it)
Church rushing to vaccinate members after they lost 6 and had many more hospitalized
We’ve all been warned and had our chance
Sorry to be so dramatic but yah these deaths be dramatic, preventable and filled with regret

Health care workers won’t care about you either – they are fresh out of energy and patience and will also be working short staffed so even if they did care, outcomes will be worse

Not quite the fall any of us were expecting.

I do feel sorry for the ones who have missed treatments, delayed diagnosis, surgeries etc. due to the selfishness of others. I wish them all well.

#192 Two-thirds on 08.09.21 at 8:49 pm

Vaccines = Yes, 100%

Mandatory papers in a democratic society = seriously?

I fully and unquestionably support mass vaccination as the way forward, but feeling extremely uncomfortable with the notion of liberal democracies making social participation contingent on the digital equivalent of “showing papers at checkpoints”, on demand.

This is a VERY slippery slope towards CCP-style authoritarian control via social credit tracking. Accepting today’s reason for curtailing freedoms is the gateway for legitimizing tomorrow’s “new reasons” for doing so, post-COVID.

If society accepts now that individual behaviours deemed bad for society overall can be not only tracked, but lead to the exclusion of citizens from societal activities, how is this not opening a massive Pandora’s box?

Once the principle of “individual choices are to be subordinated to society’s priorities” becomes socially acceptable, this opens the door to apocalyptic, Orwellian, and Huxleyian scenarios coming into being.

Will the infrastructure that is to be put in place for this now, due to COVID, be dismantled, or as TN warns, simply be pivoted towards climate change emergency?

So plausibly, once Covid is over, the passport can become an extremely useful form of social control/coercion to “reform” bad citizens like:

1) Those with a mobility carbon footprint, fuel-burning violators

2) Citizens who overconsume electricity, heating, and other forms of planet-killing dirty energy

3) People whose diets are not deemed low-carbon enough, particularly meat-eaters and those who barbecue with fossil fuels

4) Citizens who do not exercise enough, lead healthy enough lifestyles, thus diverting resources away from all-important climate change efforts

Obvious tinfoil stuff here, but the point of the above examples is that the principle of the greater good of society leading to a legitimate and legal way to control individuals.

For the greater good, of course!

What would the fathers of western democracy have to say about this?

:(

#193 Lipids on 08.09.21 at 8:50 pm

#128 Blobby

Of course Blobby. Agreed.

The point is this past December the Pharma spec sheets for these vaccines sold it as a silver bullet. 90% effective. 93%. etc. The masses think vax is it. Well, it isn’t. That is coming as such a surprise that CDC and others are changing actions. People on the vax are hospitalized and are dying – shock.

The discussion I jumped into by the way was about what is the technical challenge of concern about mRNA and potential concerns about the solutions to deliver mRNA.

The challenge is that mRNA doesn’t last long, seconds to minutes, so it needs to be “packaged” wrapped and protected so it lasts before delivery to host. Hence the nanoparticle lipids it is packed into – and those are the ones that are dangerous. Some trials of these lipids delivered 80% mortality rates in mice depending on how they were administered.

Look, there is a lot of data that we’ve seen, and to be honest there is so much noise, it is a real issue.

Consider that there is a high chance that this thing isn’t even as deadly as we think it is in the first place, because the data being counted has noise in it. But a lot of data supports this point.

What do you make of this Canadian Medical Association Journal study that concluded that cover is 3.5x deadlier than flu? So basically we’re talking about 99.4% or better survival rate, are we not? Because flu is .1 to .2 death rate.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7633055/covid-19-death-influenza/

And getting back to why the point of vaccine not being a shield is important, it is that those that have been vaccinated are expecting to not be carriers/spreaders/distributors of new variants. We already know there are variants against which the vaccine is completely ineffective.

So we know that the B1.621 variant is here. We know it doesn’t give a darn about vaccines. We know it wants to travel. And we’re going to give the thing a bunch of people who because they got vaccinated want to travel with their little useless passports?

Who is being selfish really? Vaccinated people want freedoms/exemption here in a difficult situation that are all but guaranteed to spread the new variant around the planet that will eliminate the only tool that stands a chance against the virus – the vaccines. B1.621 is now already out there all over. Now what?

#194 When Will They Raise Rates? on 08.09.21 at 8:52 pm

One last thought on vaccine passports…

Would it not be prudent to observe the spread of covid and impact on society in other counties that have implemented vaccine passports before we implement them here?

#195 Rhina on 08.09.21 at 8:52 pm

Astronaft, what human rights? The UN says one thing but does another. It is all about world government and control and not about making our lives better. They are taking everyone for a fool.

#196 Sean Willis on 08.09.21 at 8:55 pm

What country are we in? Isn’t this still Canada? Maybe it is CSSR like the Canadian version of USSR. We are going fro freedom to tyranny quick.

#197 Zed on 08.09.21 at 8:57 pm

Governments don’t want to close the economy again so they want to impose the “passport” to “ensure” the safety of the population.

Last week the QC government reported that out of 11241 deaths from Covid, 50 were in people age 50 or less. How can’t you understand that this “thing” is not their thing?

In QC, people aged 18-50 represent 3.45 millions out of 8.5 millions population (40%). Out of this lot, 799 000 are not vaccinated (not even a shot) so 9.5% of the population.

Do you really think that the QC government will exclude from the economy 10% of its population, the group that spend the most in bars, restaurants and so many other activities? Not a chance!

If the government want to exclude me from the economy, i will just keep my money in my pockets and more CERB can be paid out to the unemployed.

#198 Stella on 08.09.21 at 8:58 pm

Comparing seat belt laws to vaccine passports, mandatory vaccines. They are not even close. People ride in TTC buses and taxis all the time and don’t have to wear a seat belt.

Seat belts you can take off and put on, vaccines stay in your both for who knows how long. Medical treatment being forced on you i way more overreaching and invasive than seat belts. This is not even close of a comparison.

#199 I’m old on 08.09.21 at 9:00 pm

1968 – Hong Kong flu will kill us all
1971 – new ice age coming
1972 – another ice age in ten years
1973 – world will run out of oil
1979 – acid rain will destroy all crops
1989 – high seas obliterate nations
1990 – ozone layer will be gone in 10 years
2000 – Y2K is going to kill us all.
2001 – Antrax is going to kill us all.
2002 – West Nile virus is going to kill us all.
2003 – SARS is going to kill us all.
2005 – Bird flu is going to kill us all.
2006 – Ecoli is going to kill us all.
2008 – ice free arctic by 2013
2009 – ice caps gone in 5 years
2009 – swine flu is going to kill us all.
2010 – BP oil spill is going to kill us all.
2013 – ice free arctic in 2 years.
2014 – Ebola virus is going to kill us all.
2016 – Zika virus is going to kill us all.
2019 – world will end in 12 years – warming
2020 – Corina virus is going to kill us all.

Forgive me if I sit this one out.

#200 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 9:00 pm

#178 Sara on 08.09.21 at 8:15 pm

Are you sure about it not collapsing our health care system? 63% of Canadians are considered either obese or overweight. That brings with it a heckuva lot of health care problems. And I’m sure that number will continue to get larger (pun intended) every year.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82-625-x/2019001/article/00005-eng.htm

Knowing that being overweight and obese is a problem that is mostly preventable, why should people who eat healthy, work out and maintain a mostly healthy lifestyle, etc., have to pay for the health care of people who don’t give a crap about what they shovel down their gullets and end up with health problems?

#201 jim tow on 08.09.21 at 9:02 pm

“This is a miraculous place, literally full of wonders,” said NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio…..

********

I hsve nothing more to add to that.

#202 mike from mtl on 08.09.21 at 9:03 pm

#176 mj on 08.09.21 at 8:11 pm
…. It would be nice to see a new poll of vaccinated or unvaccinated
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

None of your business but given the last poll of 35-65+ mostly from ON & BC, well employed:

Easily 90>%

#203 Sienna on 08.09.21 at 9:05 pm

Wow, how far we have fallen in Canada. First our healthcare for years is falling apart. We have a terrible government fiscal track record and wasteful management of government for years now way before any pandemic.

Liberals, Trudeau would of doubled the debt anyway in 5 maybe 8 more years. Look at Ontariowe, McGuinty, Wynee added over 200 billion dollars in debt over 15 years from $125 to $325 billion in that time during a lower and lower interest rate periods. Green energy disaster electricity prices up 400% in 15 years. We now are talking about how vaccine passports, mandatory vaccines are. We are all so screwed it is not funny. Good luck with your kids futures.

#204 Brian on 08.09.21 at 9:06 pm

#178 Sara on 08.09.21 at 8:15 pm
#172 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 8:00 pm
#147 Sara on 08.09.21 at 7:00 pm

“Is obesity contagious?”

No, but it is preventable for the majority of people.
==============

Right. But since obesity is not contagious, there’s no chance of it collapsing our emergency health care system or overwhelming our entire health care system and hugely impacting those who are not obese.

To compare obese people to the anti-masker/anti-vaxer types as though obese people are a serious threat to the rest of us, is logical fallacy.

The comment wasn’t necessarily to compare threats. It was to point out the hypocrisy in pointing fingers and trying to hold someone else accountable, when there are other ways to have dirty hands and be burdensome to the healthcare system with significant increase risk factors for diabetes, heart problems, emphysema, the list goes on.
BTW, how is it logical fallacy when an obese person who absolutely has been higher risk to hospitalization due to C-19 until there was(and even with) vaccine development?

#205 some guy on 08.09.21 at 9:10 pm

Out of all the things government and private industry has done against the public interest, people chose vaccine passports as the place to take a stand.

Its the laziest and most ill informed attempt at fighting the “man”. Its so strange.

#206 Dino on 08.09.21 at 9:11 pm

You Liberals can’t leave people alone. Maybe we should have only vaccinated, government workers and their agencies, other social benefits recipients go to work and pay all the taxes instead of most of them getting alot of free, mostly tax free benefits from the government.

No more government and Bank of Canada money printing to prop up the parasites.

#207 Nonplused on 08.09.21 at 9:14 pm

#180 astronaft on 08.09.21 at 8:19 pm

Lots of people still don’t wear seatbelts. This became especially more of a problem after the introduction of airbags. People viewed (and some still do) airbags and seatbelts as redundant (which to some extent they are).

Seatbelts do not protect other motorist or anyone else on the road besides yourself. They don’t even help passengers in your own car save that you insist everyone buckles up. What they do is stop you from hitting the dash at the speed of impact. (There are two impacts in a car crash, that of the car itself which can take up to 2 feet depending on the speed and the crumple zone, and the impact of you to the dash which is 60-0 totally absorbed by your body. 2 feet of crumple zone makes a huge difference on an accelerometer.) But seatbelt laws do not result in any sort of criminal prosecution, all you get is a ticket.

Distracted driving, speed, and alcohol laws on the other hand do protect other motorists. Texting, speeding, and drunk driving can and do kill all sorts of people both in and out of the vehicle in question.

So how now to relate to vaccines? It looks like the unvaccinated aren’t really going to kill very many double dosed people, although they remain a threat to themselves. But eventually they will all either get covid and survive, giving them natural immunity, or they will get covid and die, which means they will be practicing 6 feet social distancing and self isolation from that point forward.

So ya, I’m not big on the covid vaccine passport idea. Individual businesses like airlines and restaurants should be free to impose whatever restrictions they like in the mask and passport areas, it is their plane after all and they don’t have to let you fly. And we can’t do anything if the US or Quebec decides you have to have one to get in, so they should be available like a regular passport is. But mandatory to get groceries? I can’t see quite that far. Not by government mandate anyway.

I fear vaccine passports are going to be about as effective as gun control or drug laws. They will do a really good job keeping the honest people honest. The dishonest people will just cheat and ignore the law.

#208 jim tow on 08.09.21 at 9:18 pm

Paul B on 08.09.21 at 6:30 pm
I yearn for the days when we were free of coercion to get an experimental inoculation whose long term consequences are unknown. Certainly the ADE reaction to viruses in laboratory experiments should give one pause.

********

Pause?

Full speed ahead with an experimental shot and if you have (legitimate) concerns about that, then too bad, we’ll limit your freedoms.

#209 DON on 08.09.21 at 9:19 pm

Two-thirds of new infections were unvaccinated and there is no data on whether the other third were one dose, two doses or beyond the two-week period necessary for protection to build. In any case, the numbers prove vaccines provide more protection than no vaccines. Duh. – Garth

***********

A greater fool smackdown. BAM!

A little protection is better than none.

We have two problems the unvaxed in our own back yard and the large percentage of unvaxxed in poorer countries mixed in with a surge in global travel.

Best to have some protection when it can be life or death. I get the slippery slope stance, but life is precious why take the risk.

#210 Sheesh on 08.09.21 at 9:28 pm

#155 Paul on 08.09.21 at 7:24 pm
That isn’t applicable to the mRNA vaccines, because: “DNA is stored in the protected centre of our cells – the nucleus. The mRNA is broken down quickly by the body. It never enters the nucleus, and cannot affect or combine with our DNA in any way to change our genetic code.”

To put it simply, the mRNA in the vaccine does not mingle with our DNA because it doesn’t enter the cell nucleus.

#211 Trojan House on 08.09.21 at 9:38 pm

#202 Brian on 08.09.21 at 9:06 pm

Thanks Brian, exactly what my point was. I’m glad you mentioned obesity and C-19. I forgot to mention obesity was one of the main risk factors for a severe C-19 outcome.

#212 Nonplused on 08.09.21 at 9:39 pm

#175 the jaguar on 08.09.21 at 8:10 pm

Where is Non Plused with his rental eviction theory?

The comments are too busy with vaccines today. I tried to post it up yesterday but it must of got lost in the internets. I didn’t get a delete and I doubt it got ghosted.

Anyway maybe I’ll wait until Garth posts about something similar to the topic. And it isn’t so much of a theory as say watching a dumpster fire and wondering how on earth we’re going to clean up this mess. It is going to be worse than CERB by a good stretch.

Here are some things to thing about:

CERB was supposed to help the unemployed pay the rent.

The eviction moratorium meant that many of them didn’t, even if they had the money.

Many landlords haven’t been paid in a year.

Landlord assistance hasn’t really got where it was supposed to go. Nobody cares about landlords and their travails.

There is a huge logical discord in trying to figure out how CERB was granted to pay the rent, the rent wasn’t paid, so now the government is going to also have to bail out the landlords. It’s a double bailout with the tenants keeping half of it as free money.

In short, CERB combined with an eviction moratorium severely underestimated people’s propensity to mischief, and much mischief occurred.

Any sort of attempt to re-establish property rights will mean the tenants who did not pay will be forced to reckon with their sins. However that is unlikely to happen. Eviction is probably the worst they face.

The landlords, on the other hand, are screwed. The government could bail them out too, but CERB was supposed to do that.

Something bad just happened and we haven’t even begun to discuss the ramifications. Do we let the “Keep Your Rent” crowd get away with one of the biggest heists in history? Do we let the landlords go bankrupt and Blackrock by it all up?

If there is an easy solution, it has escaped me.

Actually that pretty much sums it up.

#213 Bubblicious! on 08.09.21 at 9:43 pm

#96 Linda on 08.09.21 at 5:06 pm

People say ‘my body, my choice’. Normally I’d agree, except Covid isn’t self isolating in the carrier. It spreads. So it isn’t ‘my body, my choice’, it is ‘my body, my choice & too bad if you get sick or die because of it’. Because you know, those ICU’s have ….

_________________________________________

Yes … so smokers and obesotrons are allowed to clog up the medical system because of decisions they make with their lives …. but anti-vaxers aren’t? Hmmm…now I understand your point. Allow some people … but not others. I’m vaccinated, so game on. But good luck finding medical attention when you need it.

And you get to choose! Now I see how it works.

#214 Freedom First on 08.09.21 at 9:44 pm

I liked the ending in the Clint Eastwood and Hillary Swank movie “Million Dollar Baby”.

Zig Heil/

Freedom First

#215 Wrk.dover on 08.09.21 at 9:46 pm

#113 Tim on 08.09.21 at 5:52 pm
Wrk.dover what happen to the big threat of acid rain the the 80’s, 90’s.
________________________________

The state of my woodlot in SWNS can make a tree hugger puke. Regeneration is a thing in memories.

Every of the species in our managed mixed Acadian forest is in stress and decline. 40 year of ownership observation. The forest used to smell good! Not now. Decay. In Americas smokestack, if you know how to watch animated weather radar in your cave.

So, yawn at me, MF’r.

#216 3 Times they siad to me The New Normal on 08.09.21 at 9:48 pm

I have been waiting for interest rates to rise for 21 years now. My first highest rate GIC was a 6.6% 5 years. Every since then they said the the new normal on rates would be higher rates but they are always lower. Basically not back to previous levels.

Now, the highest 5 year GIC rate I shopped around is 2.4%. When I see the buzz words, new normal I get really scared. This happened to my job security, this happened to my wages, benefits, this happened to my interest rates on my RRSP’s, TFSA’s etc. I don’t trust them anymore.

#217 Phylis on 08.09.21 at 9:59 pm

#199 I’m old on 08.09.21 at 9:00 pm
Xxxxxxxx
And nuclear war and killer bees!

#218 Hysteria Forgotten on 08.09.21 at 10:14 pm

Wrk.dover, maybe a somewhat problem but last checked we are not all dying and ending up in a disaster like the Media and other activists were saying was going to happen in the 80’s, 90’s. Lat time I checked nobody in the Media and government is worried about acid rain anymore.

#219 Albertistan on 08.09.21 at 10:20 pm

#139 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.09.21 at 6:32 pm
#25 The Jag
Resources are being re-directed. Choices have to be made. Remember too, Calgary has the largest ex-pat american population.
—————
Now I get it. Did not know that.
My guess is they are mostly from the Lone Star state.
Lots of Albertans moving there, in return.
Like an student exchange program, only just for people who like to walk around in large cowboy hats.
And adore the Trumpster.

Lol!
My guess is you are from a province that voted in JT, and will do so again. No hats, though.

#220 Doug in London on 08.09.21 at 10:21 pm

So are these vaccine passports overdue? No, of course not, they’re long, long, long, long, long overdue. Congratulations to the government of Quebec for having the stones to do the right thing. The same goes for other employers, cities, provinces, states, and countries that do the same thing. This COVID is putting up a hell of a fight with the Delta variant, and the only hope we have of winning this fight is a high degree of vaccination. Meanwhile in Ontario, I wonder that we’re waiting for to do the right thing.

#221 Doug t on 08.09.21 at 10:27 pm

Nobody suggests exile. You just won’t be on planes, at concerts, dancing, working out, cruising or dining in. Maybe being employed, too. Your choice. – Garth

Edit – your coerced “choice”

#222 T on 08.09.21 at 10:33 pm

#190 Do it now on 08.09.21 at 8:47 pm
T take them all now 20 or 30 shots. Why wait you will have much more protection now rather than waiting years down the road. Do whatever it takes.

————

The average iq of today’s commenters must be a record low.

#223 Robert Ash on 08.09.21 at 10:51 pm

I felt very fortunate to have the Vaccines supplied to us, as quickly as they came… I am so surprised, anyone, would not want a Vaccine of any Manufacture, after seeing the Horrific pictures of average Indian citizens, gasping, and fighting for their lives…in Taxis, on the Street, etc… Seems, strange to me these real life situations, are not the saddest but greatest incentives to protect oneself, and others.

#224 3 dressed up as a 9 on 08.10.21 at 12:00 am

#9 Doug t on 08.09.21 at 1:34 pm

Nope don’t bring it on – I got my two shots BUT totally not kosher with “Vee must see your papers” – the world changed forever after 911 and not for better – this will just be one more giant step to authoritarian control over your freedoms and will never be reversed – not kosher at all

_________________________

Oh Doug … I don’t suffer fools lightly gladly.

911 changed your life so much, did it?… and made it undoubtedly safer. To what extent … that is another question.

But don’t go telling me how this has infringed on you and your rights. Like anybody asked for this.

#225 YVRNewzDude on 08.10.21 at 12:16 am

I’ve interacted with a lot of COVID denialists and anti-vaxxers in my line of work. For those who say “I don’t want this poorly tested vax in my body!” let’s allow them this point, the “safety” argument. But then ask them: do you smoke? Have you ever smoked? Ever snorted a line at a party? Taken a pill somebody handed you at a rave? How about just being a regular garbage-gut who lives off of fast food? Answer yes to any of the above you’ve subjected your precious body to more risk than any of the vaccines. For those who have ever done street drugs but are rejecting the Vax they’re basically saying they trust Sinaloa Cartel more than the CDC and Pfizer. That’s allowed, but just sayin.

#226 Entrepreneur on 08.10.21 at 12:27 am

Vax or not to vac, so much controversy with lack of input of facts on both sides, that is what is lacking, back up to prove a point, by experts that are in the field for decades.

Election coming up in Canada. Noticed the Liberals and the NDP are falling and the Conservatives are rising. But I also noticed that Max Bernier, PPC, has jumped ahead of the NDP and the Greens. And so fast. Is Max Bernier speaking for us Canadians?

In history class so many years ago, many religious groups came here to Canada because of the Freedom allowed in Canada. Remember being told that they do not drive vehicles, farm, and do not beleive in modern interventions. I suppose they will not get the vax.

It seems to me that fear is driving this covid pandamic and this vaccination and now the passport. The delta is already here, too late.

I would believe this if the vax people would be more open to opinions of why not to vax.

I experienced small pox, meales, mumps and no lockdowns, no masks, no passports. People have died.

#227 Chatterbox on 08.10.21 at 12:50 am

What’s hilarious about NYC Mayor DeBlasio’s “ state of wonders” is the numbers of murder , robbery, assault, feces burnout , crazies that currently plague the actual citizens of actual NYC. You’re far more likely to get shot, or encounter any of the above, than catching Covid . Thx Bill, I’ll be avoiding NYC “like the plague”. Ditto many US cities where the crime stats have exploded 300++% under a Democrat “ defund the police regime”. Might I suggest a “ weekend in Chicago tour”, where even heavily armed SWAT Cops are being gunned down. Covid coming across the border isn’t our biggest problem people. It’s Liberals letting criminal cross the border to roam our streets.

#228 Marigold on 08.10.21 at 1:01 am

I am a career scientist, advanced degree in genetics, work in a hospital, always pro-vaccination. But I believe it is better to educate than legislate. Vaccine passports are not a good idea. What about those who cannot receive a vaccine due to allergies or other pre-existing medical conditions? Must they divulge their medical history to the gate keeper at the airport/stadium/concert hall?

Can we please teach each other and trust that we can be an intelligent society? I do not need T2 (or any politician) to tell me what is important.

#229 DelorasA on 08.10.21 at 1:41 am

Soon once the vast majority are vaccinated, herd immunity reached and the risk from covid low what reasonable grounds would there be to require disclosure of vaccination status?

#230 Blobby on 08.10.21 at 1:41 am

@lipids

No, that’s not how vaccines work. If enough people get them, and we have bodies which can stop the virus quickly, it won’t spread and it’ll be over.

As evidenced by the infection rate going down as people got vaxed, and going up in places people haven’t been.

Again, not rocket science.

But, unfortunately we have selfish people who have watched a YouTube video and think they know stuff.

Seems the best way to influence idiots is to tell them one or two facts, then surround it in nonsense.

But, for tonight, I’m done talking to selfish stupid cowards.

#231 MexInVan on 08.10.21 at 2:20 am

“Nobody suggests exile. You just won’t be on planes, at concerts, dancing, working out, cruising or dining in. Maybe being employed, too. Your choice. ”
———
I have concerts booked right up until January 2022, nothing in the t&c about vaccination. I can fly many places in the world now with testing and quarantine, no vaccine required. I was clubbing in Vancouver on Saturday, no vaccine required. My gym doesn’t ask for proof of vaccination. I dine out three times a week since May 2020, no vaccine required.

Employers can’t discriminate based on vaccination status, they need to make reasonable accommodation before termination even comes into the picture, and it would be without cause. Also employers can’t disclose your vaccination status to other employees either, it is protected information.

The virus has mutated, for most, to a benign variant. If you feel you are at risk e.g. elderly, immunocompromised, get vaccinated. So why at this late stage in the pandemic the dramatic push for vaccine passports? The time for them was back in January and over the last 8 months, not now.

#232 Cannonball Charlie on 08.10.21 at 2:23 am

You didn’t mention rental or eviction ? Strange. Also not a topic of discussion in Canada. Very strange. If everything’s “normal” shouldn’t landlords be compensated? Why not?

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/566784-has-the-pandemic-put-property-rights-in-the-crosshairs

#233 Dana on 08.10.21 at 7:18 am

If you think vaccine passports are bad wait until they get rid of money. Yes, I heard on coast to coast by 2032 there will be no more money as we know it. It will be some digital programmable credits and a social credit score system probably like Communist China. There will also be no more use and existence of commercial banks. It will be all done with central banks and a command type economy, basically communism.

You know what that means, if they don’t like what you say or what you believe they just cancel you. Just like with social media, other internet venues. I am so glad I didn’t get married and have kids. Their future would be so dire and without even basic freedoms anymore.

#234 the Jaguar on 08.10.21 at 7:37 am

@#212 Nonplused on 08.09.21 at 9:39 pm

I follow what you are saying, but what evidence do we have the rents weren’t paid by the majority of people? With the CERB money? It was paid by the person, not by the household, and based on the number of peeps in households it likely allowed many to make ends meet albeit likely with reduced spending. It would surprise me if most didn’t pay their rent despite previous headlines.

Interesting map of where Calgary’s current Covid cases are located. Check out Copperfield.

https://robsonfletcher.maps.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=23c067a0048d4320859e55be7d89949b&extent=-125.9074,53.2528,-117.9972,56.2928

And before people compare vaccination rates province to province I hope those percentages are based on ‘eligible people’. If you have a population like Alberta ( very young), how many are under the age of 12 and not eligible for a vaccine? It’s not apples to apples.

#235 the Jaguar on 08.10.21 at 7:37 am

OOps. that was to read ” did pay their rents’

#236 Fan on 08.10.21 at 7:40 am

I love the content (mostly) but as many commenters have stated already there is a risk benefit analysis when it comes to taking a drug that has not completed phase 3 trials. So for us to say that the risk is justified for everyone (even healthy, young, etc.) is irresponsible. Further from an evolutionary standpoint, vaccination rule #1 “When you mass vaccinate inside of a pandemic with a non-sterilizing (Not 100% effective) vaccine , the vaccinated create a selective pressure for mutations Ie Delta to propagate.

We need to look at this with more nuance and understand that there are many choices people can make and still contribute to the removal of this pathogen. 1) Vaccination 2) Prophylaxis (Ivermectin, Thymasin Alpha 1, Vitamin D, IMASK protocol, etc.) 3) Natural Immunity from previous vaccination, or 4) Social Isolation.

The point is we need to keep the options available to the INDIVIDUAL. Kind of like the entirety of Western Civilization…what has made it so successful over the years is the ability to protect individual freedoms.

Garth I really respect your work, but on this given topic, I think you’ve fallen into a bit of an ideological trap.

#237 Victor V on 08.10.21 at 8:19 am

Personal finance Canada post on Reddit, people bought outside Toronto thinking they’d WFH forever, called to office. Panic ensues. How many more posts like this do we see, where people bought in buckstown, and work downtown. Long downtown offices:

https://ibb.co/HX1DHT3

#238 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.10.21 at 8:43 am

@#130 Canadian Mail
“Civil war brewing”

+++++

Nah
Just a civility war.

#239 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.10.21 at 8:46 am

@# 221 T
“The average iq of today’s commenters must be a record low.”

+++
True but covid will deal with some of that.

#240 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.10.21 at 8:57 am

@#199 I’m old and forgetful

You left out

The Killer Bees are coming…….. 1970’s

#241 KLNR on 08.10.21 at 9:30 am

@#207 Nonplused on 08.09.21 at 9:14 pm
#180 astronaft on 08.09.21 at 8:19 pm

I fear vaccine passports are going to be about as effective as gun control or drug laws. They will do a really good job keeping the honest people honest. The dishonest people will just cheat and ignore the law.

ultimately the threat of a vax passport will push the vax hesitant into getting the shot. the nutters will just dig in deeper, impossible to help them help themselves.
hopefully this gives us what we need for herd immunity.

#242 FriedEggs on 08.10.21 at 9:49 am

You do realize that if the 3/4 only get to eat, the other 1/4 will make it difficult because they have families and need to eat too.

#243 Love_The_Cottage on 08.10.21 at 9:49 am

In the U.S. it is common for companies to require drug testing before getting hired. To me this is no different than requiring someone to be vaccinated to be hired.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-08-05/why-is-u-s-labor-force-shrinking-retirement-boom-opioid-crisis-child-care

#244 Lipids on 08.10.21 at 9:58 am

#228 Blobby

Did you forget that part about Covid variant B1.621 that laughs at all the vaccines apparently? The one that would just love to hitch rides on passport equipped vaccinated guys and gals all around the world? Those who think they are not going to be a liability or move the new variants around the world because they got a vaccine for a target that’s 18 months old? Because suddenly we disregard all science we know about beta coronaviruses?

I get it Blobby, vax and open is the plan. If that’s the plan, lets get on with it already like UK did and stop the fear mongering. Open up, let the vax do what it can. Those that want the vaccine got it. Those that don’t, likely won’t.

#245 Dharma Bum on 08.10.21 at 10:10 am

Yahhhhhhhhh….the debate’s over, folks.

Get vaxed or get out!

Move to a leper colony.

#246 Dharma Bum on 08.10.21 at 10:37 am

#165 Dale

Maybe they should give the shot in everyone’s ass.
———————————————————————————

Now, that will definitely change the minds of at least 80% of the anti-vaxers!

#247 Sheesh on 08.10.21 at 10:39 am

234 Fan on 08.10.21 at 7:40 am
….risk benefit analysis when it comes to taking a drug that has not completed phase 3 trials….

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

Phase 3 trials have been completed for quite awhile. Not to mention all the real world evidence that has been collected since. You need better sources.

…..from an evolutionary standpoint, vaccination rule #1 “When you mass vaccinate inside of a pandemic with a non-sterilizing (Not 100% effective) vaccine , the vaccinated create a selective pressure for mutations Ie Delta to propagate.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-things-to-know-delta-variant-

The delta variant emerged prior to mass vaccinations.
The more people that the virus infects, the more chances it has to replicate and mutate, which is why it is a dumb idea to stop with masking and distancing until most of the world is vaccinated.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3

….Ivermectin…

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678

Evidence is extremely weak to consider ivermectin a valid ‘choice’

…..but on this given topic, I think you’ve fallen into a bit of an ideological trap….

Lol, look in the mirror.

#248 IHCTD9 on 08.10.21 at 11:19 am

Once CV numbers drop to where folks get bored of reading the headlines – it’s gonna fall off the map faster than a flat-earther on a canoe trip. At that point the economic destruction wreaked on Canada by the LPC will begin growing in profile. Youth especially will start to realize the hand they’ve been dealt as the dust settles. Impossible housing prices and rents, alongside lifelong tax increases, stagnant wages, and government service reductions. Trudeau’s fiscal policies and Covid spending could not have been worse for any young/new Canadian.

The destruction will take time to manifest, and be fully understood, but if you can concentrate over the future flack thrown up by our lefty apologist forces – you will realize Trudeau’s obliteration of Canada’s future prosperity is so complete, that we should say we now live in the “New” Canada.

The “Old” Canada is how most folks in the world still see us. Lots of space, fresh air, wilderness, with piles of natural resources, a wise government, steady economic and fiscal policies, a reasonable cost of living, reasonable taxation, and a great safety net.

In the new Canada, we still have all the space and natural beauty, but we are in the process of killing off our natural resource and manufacturing sectors. Our government is no longer wise – because we don’t want that anymore. Policies regarding our economy, and prosperity appear to be aimed at making both worse. The cost of living has shot through the roof seemingly overnight, and we can see plenty more coming on multiple fronts. Taxation has got pretty bad, some provinces now feature top marginal tax loads of 53+%, with tax-freedom day now a stone’s throw from landing in June – that’s not just 1%’er rate either. The safety net and government benefits are in more peril today than ever before thanks to Trudeaus hedonistic spending orgies both before and during Covid (and looks like after too). It’s up to Canadians how much more of their income they will tolerate getting vacuumed up by Government to hold the status-quo given the absurd debt servicing cost potential already cast in iron by Trudeau. Now imagine rates going up…

#249 Toronto_CA on 08.10.21 at 11:40 am

#237 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.10.21 at 8:46 am
@# 221 T
“The average iq of today’s commenters must be a record low.”

+++
True but covid will deal with some of that.
___________

To clarify – I’m pro-vax myself, anti- vax passport for domestic use on mundane activities to clarify.

Covid will not kill meaningful numbers of anti-vaccinated people. Stop trying to paint it as the second coming of the Black Death. You’re just wrong, and come across as ignorant and stupid. The IFR for unvaccinated people (who tend to be much younger than your average Covid morbidity victim that is over 80 years old) would be some negligible fraction of a %, probably 0.005% or so for an IFR if you’re talking about people under 40 who are otherwise healthy.

You sound stupid calling out that this disease will wipe out via some Darwin mechanism a meaningful % of those who refuse to take the vaccine. There are hundreds of millions of those people globally (if not billions), and 99%+ of them will survive Covid with or without the vaccine.

#250 whiplash on 08.10.21 at 11:44 am

The current crop of experimental vaccines targets a single viral spike protein, SARS-CoV-2 has 29. That means that only one protein has to mutate to evade vaccine induced immunity. If any variant(s) emerges that has altered its spike protein enough to bypass vaccine induced immunity this roll out of all these vaccines is a complete failure.
Back to square one!

#251 Toronto_CA on 08.10.21 at 11:48 am

“As evidenced by the infection rate going down as people got vaxed, and going up in places people haven’t been.”

You realize the infection rate is going up/has gone up dramatically in places with vaccination rates as high as or around the same as Canada, right? All over the world. UK saw a massive surge starting in May/June with 50% fully vaccinated going to 70%. This is Delta, which kind of ignores vaccines to a large extent for infections (thankfully the vaccines still largely prevent serious illness which is the important thing).

Do people even realize how dumb they sound?

#252 Doug t on 08.10.21 at 12:04 pm

this whole covid thing is getting rather boring – can we have the next extreme event please

#253 Linda on 08.10.21 at 12:13 pm

#131 ‘Adam’ – there are no guarantees of complete safety in this life. Google the number of people who expire trying to get out of bed sometime. Stop making excuses along the lines of ‘but it MIGHT cause some unknown harm to me down the road’. It is an excuse, not a reason. BTW, if being vaccinated was an issue, there are literally millions of people who were jabbed with vaccines for mumps, measles, whooping cough, chicken pox & polio out there. As someone who was
given all the above & more over the years, I can report that I have yet to grow a second head or develop a tentacle, let alone be told any health issue I’ve had is related to having had a vaccine. Oh, I was lucky? Damn right I am – I live in a country where dying from an easily prevented disease is within my power to prevent. All I need do is make an appointment. Yes, some vaccines like Shingrex (for shingles) has a fee, but guess what? I get a prescription from my doctor & claim it on my taxes. That is a deal I can live with:)

#254 WTF on 08.10.21 at 12:44 pm

#148 “Is obesity contagious?”

Nope but an epidemic which we all pay for. Heart Disease/Diabetes/Cancer etc. Obesity IS the biggest threat to the socialized medical system, the general population and its finite resources, by far.

Obese Mom and Dad usually have butterball kids. Which I feel sorry for since it isn’t their fault M+D prefer Doritos and video games to Veggies and exercise. First generation to NOT outlive their parents.

Predictions suggest it will get worse in the next decades. Not a peep from the leaders on this.

https://obesitycanada.ca/obesity-in-canada/

#255 G on 08.10.21 at 12:48 pm

Some might find this article interesting.

AI and Robots Are a Minefield of Cognitive Biases
Humans anthropomorphize our technology, sometimes to our own distraction and detriment
https://spectrum.ieee.org/humans-cognitive-biases-facing-ai

#256 SoggyShorts on 08.10.21 at 12:59 pm

#65 johnfromkingston on 08.09.21 at 3:45 pm
If I start providing a vaccine passport to a private business they will collect that data on me and use it for their profit.
*****************
How?
Why?

Seriously, I’ve seen this a fair bit but I just don’t see how or why your local Denny’s, Cineplex, or a museum would or even could use this information to your detriment.

Please explain how flashing a passport to the hostess turns into something so scary.

#257 Planetgoofy on 08.10.21 at 1:01 pm

#246 IHCTD9 on 08.10.21 at 11:19 am
————————————————-
Dude you nailed it!

#258 ImGonnaBeSick on 08.10.21 at 1:30 pm

#255 Planetgoofy on 08.10.21 at 1:01 pm
#246 IHCTD9 on 08.10.21 at 11:19 am
————————————————-
Dude you nailed it

Except, instead of blaming the government, they will blame the proceeding generation, or systemic this and that, climate change, or capitalism… The government and media are experts at gaslighting

#259 IHCTD9 on 08.10.21 at 1:48 pm

#255 Planetgoofy on 08.10.21 at 1:01 pm
#246 IHCTD9 on 08.10.21 at 11:19 am
————————————————-
Dude you nailed it!
_____

I hope not, but can’t see how the long game could play out any different. The single most worrying thing, is that despite the stroke producing debt we now have to finance, neither our governments or Canadians themselves – seem to care.

It’s like putting a jigsaw puzzle of your worst nightmare together – it all fits nicely, but it’s still a horror show at the end!

#260 Doug in London on 08.10.21 at 3:33 pm

It’s been brought to my attention many people in the business community want vaccine passports. Why? Because they see the disturbing trend of case loads of COVID going up due to the Delta variant, and don’t want to see another lockdown. The last ones killed off many businesses already and another will kill off even more that are hanging on for dear life. Meanwhile there’s opposition to the idea from the Conservative governments in Ontario and Alberta. What am I missing here? I’m a left leaning liberal who, since I voted for the first time in 1979, have always voted for Liberal or NDP and I can see the logic behind vaccine passports. So why can’t a party that’s supposedly the most business friendly of all parties see the logic in a vaccine passport? Yes, Ontario is open for business now and we should be doing all we can to keep it that way.

#261 Steven on 08.10.21 at 4:15 pm

The comments against taking the vaccine or against using the passport to avoid further lockdowns on this blog are pathetic. The back and forth replies to others in the comments are childish.

#262 Katie on 08.10.21 at 4:17 pm

Doug, so why is it that you liberals, NDP, lefties, socialists tax us small businesses so much and over regulate us too much if your so business friendly. I have to bow down and say thank you master for letting me open my business with some passport, certificate.

The lockdowns are just an excuse to bring in more government control and overreach. I don’t all the businesses will survive anyway after what was done. I think 30% to 40% have already failed and nobody wants to admit it. By the way, why was it okay for large corporations to stay open and not small businesses during the lockdown periods.

Did covid magically be less worse in a big store instead of a small store. I don’t think so.

#263 Doug in London on 08.10.21 at 10:27 pm

@Katie, post #262:
The point I’m trying to get across and you don’t seem to get it is that, if someone like me can see the logic in vaccine passports then someone who is supposedly business friendly should have absolutely NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER seeing the logic behind vaccine passports.
So do restrictions like lockdowns do no good whatsoever? Don’t tell me, tell all those people hospitalized in Florida, at least the ones who haven’t died yet. Better yet, tell that to people in India who lost a lot of loved ones because all restrictions were lifted there. I don’t want to see any more lockdowns either, that’s why we need vaccine passports. Don’t take from me, but rather from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

I don’t know why large stores were allowed to open while small stores were closed either. Wasn’t that a Conservative government in Ontario that made these rules?

#264 Tony on 08.11.21 at 8:23 am

Doug, you are the same type of person who now allows people to go into debt like there is no tomorrow. Governments and central banks around the world gave you guys very cheap mortgage rates and look at the mess. It sure helped the economy right. Everyone is in debt to their eyeballs and can’t afford the cost of living. A house in the GTA would not of cost $900,000 to $1,000,000 if the government, Bank of Canada did not artificially control interest rates to almost 0% levels. If we had even mortgage rates of the early 2000’s, 6% to 8% we would not be in such a mess.

All these policies are about control, one centralized control and not freedom for the people and it’s country. You know why you guys don’t like freedom is because you have to face the consequences after without your big backup the government. You want always someone else to bail you out.

It seems to me that you either work for the medical industry, have a vested interest in this or think that there should be no risks in life. Every time government gets involved it ends up worse. When my uncle, father died of cancer nobody gave a crap and I did not force everyone to get some medical treatment or other restrictions on the rest of the population. Oh well, they died that is life, he was old enough in his 60’s, they should of been more careful etc.

These lock downs, vaccine passports, vaccine certificates and other restrictive policies is is just a way to force people to do what others want. You guys are just a bunch of control freaks and can’t leave people alone. I know from family members, friends from Cuba, Chile and what has and is happening there.

#265 Darren on 08.11.21 at 9:13 am

These vaccine passports, vaccine certificates technologies for tracking seems to me to be using a similar purpose like smart meters they put in Ontario during McGunity Liberals.

I would not be surprised that we see government and corporate corruption here with these vaccine passports, vaccine certificates and other future tracking systems. Some people here are getting big payoffs and it is highly unlikely it is not about public health and safety. More bureaucracy the government loves that and corporations making huge revenues from their technologies. The consumer, guy on the street is the real loser here taking all the cost and time it loses.

#266 Doug in London on 08.11.21 at 10:07 am

@Tony:
You are exactly 100% WRONG and 0% right. I’ve never had any large amount of debt in my life and never will. Debt is a 4 letter word. I think governments made a big mistake allowing people to go into debt but that’s only part of the problem. I think a responsible adult should never allow themselves to get into deep debt in the first place, and if they do they are largely to blame. If you’ve been following this blog you will have read Garth saying over and over and over and over and over again that if you can’t afford a house without taking on excessive debt then don’t, rent instead. Makes sense to me. As for government debt, I agree that government did the right thing helping people out during the lockdowns they mandated, but think they went too far. By now the CERB pogey should be eliminated, it’s stopping a lot of people from filling jobs that are vacant now.

You’re also WRONG about me having any ties to the medical industry. I have none, period. The only ties I have are actually listening to what knowledgeable health care professionals have to say.

As for lockdowns, vaccine passports, and vaccine certificates, it’s about controlling a public health crisis. What would happen if nothing was done? Have you EVER, even once read a newspaper, watched news on TV, or listened to the news on the radio? If you ever did, you’d see what happens when there are no restrictions. Look at what happened when restrictions were lifted too soon in India. Do you know where India is? Similarly, look at what’s happening in Florida now with restrictions lifted in a state with a low vaccination rate. What you see there is a prime example of how you get the government you deserve.

Last but not least I have my certificate of vaccination, and carry it with me wherever I go. I also have a copy on my home computer and another on my phone. Now, all we need is for more governments to actually have the balls to do the right thing and follow the example of Manitoba and Quebec, as well as some countries like Israel with vaccine passports. It’s good to know there’s at least some leadership in the world, it restores some of my faith in humanity.

#267 Doug in London on 08.11.21 at 10:13 am

@Darren, post #265:
If you’re that worried about being tracked, delete your account with Facebook or Twitter if you have either and don’t use ANYTHING that’s provided by Google. If you do that you’ll be almost invisible.

#268 Doug in London on 08.11.21 at 10:37 am

The Canada – U.S. land border is now open for Americans coming into Canada for non essential services, but entry is only granted if they show proof of being double vaccinated. That’s as it should be, and shows that Canada Customs is run by responsible people. A fine example of wise use of my tax dollars if there ever was. As for Canadians going into The States, we’ll be allowed to cross on August 21, provided we show proof of double vaccination. I’m not planning any trips yet, but at some time I’ll be approaching U.S. Customs on the American side of the Bluewater or Ambassador Bridge. I’ll have my vaccination certificate in hand and be ready to PROUDLY show it to the customs officer.

#269 Obesity costs money on 08.11.21 at 12:21 pm

#148 Sara

“Obesity isn’t contagious”

————————–

That’s not the point. The forced medical procedures people (like you) are saying the costs of Covid should be borne by anyone unvaxxed.

Obviously it will never happen, but the principle they think they are so cleverly promoting is that people who are careless and get ill as a result should be responsible for their healthcare.

That clearly puts the obese, smokers and drinkers in the same boat as unvaxxed.

But of course it’s all just nonsense, and an attempt by the vaxxed self righteous to shame the unvaxxed.

If I was a healthy 22 year old I might still get the vax but maybe not. I sure don’t blame the young and healthy for not getting vaxxed.

It doesn’t affect me as I am fully vaxxed and looking forward to a booster.

And I think the vax works, unlike some of the forced medical procedure crowd.

Wait til the passport doesn’t get to the people who are most vulnerable in society and come tell me about how morally righteous you are then.

#270 Think about it on 08.11.21 at 12:50 pm

Like everything the government does, most people comply because they are scared not because they think it is a good idea. Let’s get real, people don’t really remember what they had for dinner yesterday so why would they research the true facts about Covid-19.

It looks to me that until you get screwed royally from the government and it’s policymakers, both locally and worldwide and understand who did, you are blindly doing what they want.

#271 Doug in London on 08.12.21 at 11:01 am

@Think about it, post #270:
Not only do I remember what I had for dinner yesterday, but I will actually do some research into anything that can have a negative effect on my health and well being. That’s why I’ve never smoked and while I do consume alcohol I don’t overdo it. It’s why I use seat belts in any vehicle that’s equipped with them, why I wear a bike helmet, and why I wear a flotation jacket in any smaller watercraft. It’s also why I wear safety glasses when using power tools or use protective equipment when working with corrosive chemicals like sulfuric acid. It’s why I wear hearing protection when using a noisy machine like a chainsaw. Personally I don’t GIVE A DAMN what the government says. It’s all about protecting the health and well being of the 3 most important people in the world, namely me, myself, and I. That’s why I follow what the benevolent government says to do about COVID. That includes: 1)Got my 2 shots. Check. 2)Wear a mask indoors or in a crowded place outdoors. Check. 3)Maintain social distancing. Check.

#272 Followers on 08.12.21 at 5:21 pm

Doug In London, if you like obeying so much the government why don’t you live under Communist China and see how long you will last. Only a government worker, organizations subsidized by government or bureaucratic is so in love with the generous with other people’s money. Why build, create something when you can take and push people around loving that control, power over others.

#273 Canada's Border on 08.12.21 at 5:37 pm

Doug In London, I know alot of people that are vaccinated and think they can now travel more and be less cautious. They are spreading it more than others. Just because you are vaccinated, it does not mean you can be more in contact and think you are not going to spread covid.

If you guys are so worried about this delta variant spreading so much, the border should still be closed. I don’t see lockdowns and closing the border by fall as avoided no matter what your Liberal government promises you. My prediction, this will happen by October-2021.

#274 Doug in London on 08.12.21 at 9:09 pm

@Followers, post #272:
I learned to read by the time I finished Grade 1 in June, 1968 and refined my reading abilities in following years, a skill you obviously don’t have. Get someone who is actually literate to READ MY POST for you. I said, and I quote: Personally I don’t GIVE A DAMN what the government says. I’m looking out for me, me, me and do what the government says if it makes sense. That’s why I wore my bike helmet today, will use my seat belt when I drive tomorrow, and took the 3 precautions I mentioned about COVID that you need to have read to you. If you don’t want to get vaccinated then fine. The sooner Darwin’s natural selection process thins out the herd, the better. The world is too damn overpopulated as it is.

As for government, would you prefer to be in an anarchistic society like Afghanistan is becoming? Can I book you a ticket to Kabul?

#275 Doug in London on 08.12.21 at 9:24 pm

@Canada’s Border, post #273:
I suspect you’re right, that this Delta variant will cause a fourth wave. That’s why I continue to be cautious as outlined in my post #271. I see someone here actually gets it, unlike some of the trash I read here in the steerage section. I still think vaccination passports, along with the other 2 measures I mentioned are wise not just because of what government says, but because it’s the intelligent thing to do. I see more institutions are showing true leadership, like the University of Ottawa, University of Guelph, and now Western requires vaccination proof for classes as well as in residence. It’s about time.