The big suck

At 37, Nathaniel Erskine-Smith is one of the youngest MPs. There are reasons to like him. He’s a big animal rights dude, taking concrete steps against cruelty and exploitation. He thinks party politics can be stifling, so free votes and open debate – even questioning the leader – should abound in Parliament. But he’s also more of a Dipper than a Lib, wrapped in the rhetoric of the left and striving to be seen as a maple-flavoured Robin Hood.

So it was NES who asked the PBO (Parliamentary Budget Officer) to run the numbers on a Canadian wealth tax – which hit the news this week, just in time for the next election. This has been a major plank in the NDP platform and recent polls found that 80% of Canadians support raiding the net worth of ‘rich’ families. Because, of course, a fair tax is one that somebody else pays.

What’s a wealth tax?

It’s not income tax – which is already at the 54% level for most 1%ers in Canada. Instead it’s a levy on net worth – owned assets – which can include residential real estate, investment portfolios and (mostly) business equity. The latter is problematic, of course, because businesses employ people, pay corporate taxes and usually have most of their capital tied up. If the company is privately owned it’s impossible to sell some shares on the market to raise money to pay a new tax. It might have to be scaled back or sold instead. Not good.

Most countries don’t have a wealth tax because it apparently doesn’t work. Families move money around to avoid tax (like you do). Investment is curtailed. Wealthy people migrate elsewhere. The economy is hindered, not helped. These days only Norway, Spain and Switzerland routinely tap personal net worth, and in very different ways.

Norway has a 0.85% levy on financial portfolios worth roughly $200,000 C$ or more. Spain’s tax is on a sliding scale (by region) on financial assets of about $1 million and up. The Swiss have taxed net worth routinely since 1840 and it covers worldwide assets.

Other nations tried this and gave it up. France taxes real estate, instead. Italy taxes assets held abroad. No other European countries have adopted a wealth tax. Not in the UK. Nor America. Places that tried and failed to design or sustain this kind of thing include Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, India, Netherlands, Sweden and France which gave up three years ago.

In short, it doesn’t work. Rich people don’t usually have liquid assets waiting nicely to be Hoovered. Their wealth resides in land, buildings, equity and operating companies. If a government wants to take, say 1% or 2% a year of a family’s overall holdings, then stuff has to be sold. So, how does an entrepreneur peel off a little hunk of a grocery store chain? Or a shipyard? Or an online platform? And what’s the economic benefit of being one of the few countries on earth where the government sucks off more than half a successful person’s annual income, then comes back for a bite of what’s left?

Well, that hasn’t stopped crusader Nathaniel. Or the orange guys. So here are the proposals being bandied about…

The Liberal MP from Toronto (trained as a lawyer, married to a vegan chef, whose parents are retired teachers) wants a one-time tax on the net worth of families with ten million. There are 87,139 of them in Canada. This would take $60 billion of their money, which they could pay over five years. The rate would be 3% of net worth, rising to 5% for folks with over $20 million (there are 19,000 families in this category). This would be (supposedly) a one-time hit, so that wealthy people would not just be scared away forever.

The NDP wealth tax is simple and eternal: 1% of all the net worth of families with $20 million or more annually, which would raise about $5 billion from 13,800 households. (That is 1.5% of last year’s deficit.) Socialist leader Jagmeet Singh also wants a ‘profiteering tax’ levied on those WFH companies (Amazon, Apple, Shopify, Netflix etc.) that actually made good bank during the pandemic.

New Democrat finance critic Peter Julian says bringing in a wealth tax will be a key debate topic in this coming campaign. NES wants his party to be the one spearheading the assault on net worth. The Cons says this makes them the only ones who can see straight. And meanwhile, as stated, eight in ten voters believe what they’re told – somebody else can foot the bill.

Oh, Canada.

About the picture: “Hey Garth, Ken and Jolina from sunny Edmonton, Alberta!  We have been loving all the faithful readers dog pictures and thought we would share the new addition to our household, Dolly!  Dolly is a 7 month old pitbull terrier (aka a vicious blood thirsty maniac if you reside in Ontario) and maybe not built for Alberta winters but is loving the sunshine as you can tell in this picture.  Until next time, stay safe and all the best. “

179 comments ↓

#1 Summertime on 07.16.21 at 2:06 pm

#152 Summertime on 07.16.21 at 2:06 pm
There is no man made global warming. It it due to the sun cycles. It is documented in details, look for it.

There is ‘Grand Minimum’ in solar activities coming so rather than global warming we could face some extended global cooling, i.e. mini ice age.

The proverb ‘as the hell freezes’ will be valid for most of the great white north. I always thought that the hell is cold, it is much worse than being hot.

Ice fishing cabins at 10 mil + sounds a ‘great investment’.

Dolce Vita, this grappa is absolutely fantastic.

#2 Summertime on 07.16.21 at 2:09 pm

Paying 54 % at the top bracket for crappy/or no/ services really sucks. I will NEVER EVER do it again.

So I prefer to pay 10-15 % at the top bracket as a business somewhere else. Life is great/fantastic.

And the grappa is great.

#3 A Metallurgist on 07.16.21 at 2:13 pm

You forgot Liechtenstein.

Wealth is calculated (with small deductions). A multiplier of 4% (could change) is applied to calculate a nominal income which is then added to employment income.

Seems to work – but it’s a tiny country, and there’s a low tax rate on income.

#4 AO1 on 07.16.21 at 2:16 pm

Is this a tax on wealth above $10M or $20M, or tax on the whole thing? For example if a person had a new worth of $11M dollars to they pay 3% of $11M or $1M. Is this per person or household? What about pensions, do they get counted towards net worth, they are certainly valuable. If NPD or liberals get elected, I’m asking my boss to transfer me to the US. I’m done here.

#5 NoOneOfConsequence on 07.16.21 at 2:23 pm

Why even tax at all? Let’s just keep up the BOC buying whatever they need to, to provide the liquidity and stability we all need.
It’s comical to me that anyone thinks that any amount of tax will make a difference when government spending just continues to expand.
Why not go the other way and just eliminate all income tax?

#6 TurnerNation on 07.16.21 at 2:25 pm

For crop issues keep an eye on CORN.US ETF – Agriculture etc ETF.
……

Our rulers telling us this is the New System. They need their power as the Great Reset rages on.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/mobile/i-do-not-believe-that-we-ll-ever-return-to-a-pre-covid-normal-n-s-enters-penultimate-stage-of-reopening-1.5509235
“I do not believe that we’ll ever return to a pre-COVID normal’: N.S. enters penultimate stage of reopening”

— Once again…we are like animals to our elites, control over our Breeding. It’s here in black and white:

https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2021-who-issues-new-recommendations-on-human-genome-editing-for-the-advancement-of-public-health
“WHO issues new recommendations on human genome editing for the advancement of public health
12 July 2021 News release
However, some risks exist, for example, with germline and heritable human genome editing, which alter the genome of human embryos and could be passed on to subsequent generations, modifying descendants’ traits”

–Related:

https://asgct.org/research/news/november-2020/covid-19-moderna-nih-vaccine
COVID-19 Vaccine Candidates Show Gene Therapy is a Viable Strategy
ASGCT Staff – November 17, 2020

———–
— Australia being punished as usual. Expect 2022-23, maybe 2025.
Timeline chart of their Lockdowns err Lockups:
https://i.redd.it/phj1yzae8jb71.jpg

“12 million Australians are currently in complete lockdown. There were just over 100 new cases yesterday. A single Australian (who was aged 70+) has died from COVID this year.”

.Uncertain days ahead as Victoria wakes to fifth lockdown (9news.com.au)
.Australia’s Second Largest City Melbourne Ordered into Fifth Lockdown(scrabbl.com)
.Luxury brands Gucci and Louis Vuitton are ‘essential’ under NSW COVID restrictions (abc.net.au)
. Anti-lockdown protestors storm Melbourne in the eve of Victoria’s five-day lockdown (dailymail.co.uk)

#7 X on 07.16.21 at 2:29 pm

Funny how spending within your limits isn’t an option for the NDP. LOL.

So you get enough tax to cover 1.5% of the deficit. How many jobs lost? How much tax base lost?

#8 Summertime on 07.16.21 at 2:34 pm

Nero d’Avola grappa. Absolutely fantastic.

#9 Kids call me a nerd on 07.16.21 at 2:36 pm

Just a quick correction on the wealth tax in The Netherlands. They actually have one. And it is pretty steep (https://broadstreet.nl/taxation-of-assets-box-3-in-the-netherlands/). Principal home is exempt, but all savings, investment and any other asset such as secondary home, land are included in the asset calculation.

Value of assets Effective annual tax rate
€ 0 – € 50,000 1,90%
€ 50,000 – € 950,000 4,50%
More than € 950,000 5,69%

However pension assets are not included in this calculation. The same distinction should be made in Canada if a wealth tax is considered. How are my TFSA and RSP different from the holdings in a DB/DC pension plan?

#10 Dolce Vita on 07.16.21 at 2:37 pm

I know it’s a serious topic Garth and dear to your heart (probably in 1 of the 2 cohorts to be extorted as proposed by the Lib) and sorry, but when I read the Blog title I burst out laughing.

And it is also true I was ROTFL when I read this:

“The Liberal MP from Toronto (trained as a lawyer, married to a vegan chef, whose parents are retired teachers)”

If you are a Determinist, well that sentence explains EVERYTHING.

Extortion to please the financially challenged masses of Canada that cannot do Basic Math nor would they be inclined to do so when they can have…

Off with their heads!

—————–

Oh Garth.

You’ll just have to sell off your Bay Street tower office credenza and a few other office ditties like artwork, stationery, maybe even the boat and heaven forbid…Lunenburg’s own Mini Il Panteo (Pantheon for you Mangia Cakes, Garth excluded).

It’s pathetic Garth, on that I agree without reservation. Just pathetic.

#11 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 07.16.21 at 2:37 pm

Activist Friday Counterpoint:
While in theory I agree this will scare rich people away the fact is:
Yes this is an overreaction to the fact that those same people have abused the system with the whole trickle down BS and tax cuts they only benefited from.
The pendulum always swings both ways and we have reached a point where government incompetence and businesses abusing tax laws plus globalism has driven most of the working population in a month to month living situation.
Just because the small minority we represent on this blog are not in that position it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist out there.
So some sort of overcorrection will happen which will Kickstart a new cycle.
The other point often forgotten by defenders of the rich is that every vacuum inevitably opens new opportunities, so let them leave and do not shed any tears because others will rise to take their place.

#12 cuke and tomato picker on 07.16.21 at 2:37 pm

I understand the government needs money however and taxing families who have a large financial means etc
destroys incentive. I feel that our government does give
money to people who could do more for for themselves
but don’t work because our government takes up the slack. We do have to support the mentally ill, the physical disabled and single mothers.

#13 Bob on 07.16.21 at 2:38 pm

Garth, you stated yesterday that taking on 500% of your total income in debt (for a house) is crazy. I tend to agree. But what’s a reasonable amount?

#14 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 07.16.21 at 2:39 pm

Sorry Mr Turner, but we need to go in this direction. ASAP.

The environment and our society are about to crumble, otherwise.

Wealth taxes of at least 5% will be needed within a decade.

The wealthy have had way too much tax avoidance privilege for far too long. Time to pay up.

Let’s move our butts and get on it, save ourselves and the planet, folks.

#15 the jaguar on 07.16.21 at 2:44 pm

Hyphenated name. School teacher parents (a profession notorious for attracting those with a lack of realistic thinking). Throw in a social worker and you just scored a bulls-eye. Mercy. He has a nice smile, though. Wonder how he’d look in a pilots uniform….
About the dog and the owners comment….no surer way to start a heated argument than to bring up pit bulls or tattoos. I avoid both. Don’t take it personally, but ‘ugh’.

#16 NSNG on 07.16.21 at 2:46 pm

How about a tax on every promise a political party has made and not kept?

This will balance the budget!

#17 Don Guillermo on 07.16.21 at 2:48 pm

#13 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 07.16.21 at 2:39 pm
Sorry Mr Turner, but we need to go in this direction. ASAP.

The environment and our society are about to crumble, otherwise.

Wealth taxes of at least 5% will be needed within a decade.

The wealthy have had way too much tax avoidance privilege for far too long. Time to pay up.

Let’s move our butts and get on it, save ourselves and the planet, folks.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cool aid? Guzzled!

#18 BlogDog123 on 07.16.21 at 2:48 pm

Wealth taxes that won’t get implemented:

– capital gains tax on sale of property. Not a vote-getter and people may defer selling their house…
– priceless art. Hard to calculate / prove who owns it.
– HST/GST adder to big ticket items. Your dealership or RV store won’t like this.
– Cosmetic surgery surtax. Won’t make a dent, costs more to administer.

How about up the lower tax brackets. More people in the lower and lower-middle income brackets… But that’s stealing from the poor…

#19 Squire on 07.16.21 at 2:54 pm

Time to move to USA. We are falling into the socialist trap and people are eating it all up.
Socialism is great until you run out of other people’s money. Just ask the Cuban’s if they want to keep socialism going…. Dumb Canadian’s squandering what our previous generations fought for.

#20 NSNG on 07.16.21 at 2:57 pm

#5 NoOneOfConsequence on 07.16.21 at 2:23 pm

Why even tax at all? Let’s just keep up the BOC buying whatever they need to, to provide the liquidity and stability we all need.
It’s comical to me that anyone thinks that any amount of tax will make a difference when government spending just continues to expand.
Why not go the other way and just eliminate all income tax?

Because they need to keep the illusion going that it is not all about the printing press. If they took away taxes, people might become puzzled and start asking questions. It is better to keep them asleep in the thought that their tax dollars are how the machine is greased.

#21 Linda on 07.16.21 at 2:58 pm

‘Dolly’ could be protected from our harsh winter weather if she is amenable to wearing a puffy dog jacket. This is a real thing – I’ve seen dogs whose body fur trends towards the light end of the scale all bundled up in one of these contraptions, complete with booties on every paw.

A ‘one time tax’. Uh-huh. If you truly believe that, I’ve got some prime bridges to sell….. I’ll even throw in some magic beans if anyone believes they won’t ever have to worry about paying any such type of tax themselves.

#22 Dolce Vita on 07.16.21 at 2:59 pm

Some troubling news out today from the UK about Delta.

——–

ZOE (UK Coronavirus Symptom Study) as of today – spot on since last year:

468K predicted to have Covid symptoms, almost all Delta.

Unvaccinated
19,228 – 7 days ago with Delta, PCR testing
22,638 today +18%

Vaccinated, 1 or 2 doses
5,982 – 7 days ago with Delta, PCR testing
11,084 today +85%

So ONE IN THREE in the UK catching Delta are vaccinated and the growth rate, HORRENDOUS.

Tim Spector OBE, lead scientist on the ZOE COVID Study and Professor of Genetic Epidemiology at King’s College London:

“Even though we’re doing away with COVID restrictions in the UK, COVID isn’t done with us.”
[in reference to the Jul 19 Gov UK “Freedom Day”]

I repeatedly said on this Blog that Delta is low and slow but when it grabs hold it goes exponential. Europe yesterday:

https://i.imgur.com/76YAUfq.png

LOW & SLOW:

US Delta portion of all Covid Infections:
April 0.1%
Today 58%

Canada
2,000 cumulative cases – June 19, +66% in 1 week, 4X since April.
4,100 cases – July 13 (42% of all new cases in ON, 31% in BC)

Why I worry: “DON’T TEST. DON’T COUNT”

Canada/US vs. UK tests per thousand:
https://i.imgur.com/wUsUby6.png

Canada/US tests per thousand, DRASTICALLY DOWN:
https://i.imgur.com/ghjlm79.png

Canada and the US ripe for the picking. How bad?

I don’t know but I expect not as bad in peak cases vs. others if history repeats, Canada in general peak cases are attenuated vs. USA and Europe (Beavers v. good at hiding out and dodging Covid on Gov Canada money):

https://i.imgur.com/2Hf5LjA.png

The Beavers may meet their match with Delta.

————————————–

And yes Garth’s 70% VAXD by Aug long weekend still holding, Projected using yesterday’s vax data (Actual vs. Projected max error = 0.17%):

July 28
81% single dose vaxd
70% two dose vaxd

Have fun. Stay safe Canada. Keep your guard up.

I know I am in Italia…it’s at my doorstep in far too many countries that vacation here.

#23 OK, Doomer on 07.16.21 at 2:59 pm

Re-elect T2. let inflation do it’s thing and we’ll all be in the 10 million tax bracket.

And the scary part is you think I’m kidding. 20 years ago I read an article that said a hamburger would cost $9 in twenty years rather than the $3 it was then. Boy was I wrong.

#24 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 3:01 pm

Ahhh yess.
The “rich” will pay.

Delusional.
They didn’t become rich because they’re stupid.
They will move their money or just leave.

Think it’s tough finding a tradesman or doctor now?
Just wait.

But don’t fret about the Trudeau’s and The Jaggy Singh’s of the planet …….they never have a problem getting a doctor.

Almost time to hang up the spurs it this spend and tax monstrosity of a govt moves forward with these “woke” changes.

#25 Re-Cowtown on 07.16.21 at 3:02 pm

Just a thought, but maybe the government could stop pi$$ing our money away and then they wouldn’t need more.

#26 Doug t on 07.16.21 at 3:05 pm

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

#27 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 3:07 pm

@#157 IHCTD9
“Today’s diesel trucks make 1000 ft-lb of torque, pass emissions standards, are full-on luxury vehicles, get 15 mpg, and cost 100k.”

++++

Don’t forget they’re loud at 5am when a tradesman is warming it up and they stink when you’re stuck behind them in traffic.

#28 Stone on 07.16.21 at 3:07 pm

#10 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 07.16.21 at 2:37 pm
Activist Friday Counterpoint:
While in theory I agree this will scare rich people away the fact is:
Yes this is an overreaction to the fact that those same people have abused the system with the whole trickle down BS and tax cuts they only benefited from.
The pendulum always swings both ways and we have reached a point where government incompetence and businesses abusing tax laws plus globalism has driven most of the working population in a month to month living situation.
Just because the small minority we represent on this blog are not in that position it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist out there.
So some sort of overcorrection will happen which will Kickstart a new cycle.
The other point often forgotten by defenders of the rich is that every vacuum inevitably opens new opportunities, so let them leave and do not shed any tears because others will rise to take their place.

———

Strange. Gouvernment incompetence and businesses abusing tax laws plus globalism did not drive most of the working population into a month to month living situation.

Envy did that along with an inability to do math.

Until a year ago, I was part of the working population. Didn’t stop me from enjoying the fruits of delayed gratification and retire in my mid 40s. I know how to do math.

#29 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 3:12 pm

Real estate and land are already taxed proportionally to value.

Portfolios can be taxed relatively painlessly. So you need to sell a fraction of some assets of your own choosing to cover a tax liability, big whoop.

Business equity is more tricky. I think a good idea would be to count a fraction of business equity as income, to be taxed as income when tax time comes around.

#30 Mehdy on 07.16.21 at 3:18 pm

I am sure the Netherlands has a wealth tax, which starts for combined assets more than 35 K Euros assets per person or about 70 K Euros per family (personal house and car for a family excluded):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Netherlands#Wealth_tax

Belgium also has wealth tax for security assets above 500 K Euros (on the whole of amount):

https://www.thefrygroup.co.uk/be/what-the-belgian-wealth-tax-means-for-you/#:~:text=The%20Act%20of%207%20February,accounts%20valued%20over%20%E2%82%AC500%2C000.

These are the places that I have personal knowledge of. So I would say it is way more common than you have stated.

Neither country has taxes on total net worth, as proposed here. – Garth

#31 Quintilian on 07.16.21 at 3:18 pm

I think Marie Antoinette et al would strongly disagree with the wealth tax, but we all know what happed to them.

I strongly agree on a wealth tax.

As for the rich moving to another country…… any follow up comment that would legitimize absurdity.

#32 Yukon Elvis on 07.16.21 at 3:29 pm

Never mind wealth taxes. Worry about this.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8031337/moon-wobble-effects-canada-experts/

#33 CanadianOne on 07.16.21 at 3:30 pm

So no more tax avoidance then eh! Is that why most everybody here’s gotten their shit twisted! I say first world problems!

And enough of threats about leaving…… just take it and go. Its a free country.

#34 Soviet Capitalist on 07.16.21 at 3:30 pm

Got it, so voting the cons. Not because the’re worth a penny, but because the others appear set to run the country into the ground much faster…

#35 S.O on 07.16.21 at 3:30 pm

I read a stat a while ago that in the US top 20 percent pay over 40 percent of all the countries taxes while the poor and low income only pay around 4 percent but require more of the governments, services payed for by the taxpayer. So who not paying their faire share. this is probably similar here in Canada.

#36 A commie is a commie is a commie on 07.16.21 at 3:36 pm

They’re always lurking about.. itching to steal what they never earned or created.

#37 Felix on 07.16.21 at 3:36 pm

How about a tax on the stupidity of dogs and their owners?

Should be worth billions!

+

Happy Feline Friday!

Did you know:

A group of cats is called a “clowder.”

Cats sleep for about 2/3 of their lives. So when your cat is 12 years old, it will only have spent 4 years of its life awake. (Sounds like a Canadian Senator, eh)

Cats have contributed to the extinction of more than 33 bird species worldwide. (So don’t mess with us)

#38 Dolce Vita on 07.16.21 at 3:37 pm

One last thing Canada about vaxing, it has been going down fast.

My chart, each data point is a 7-day vax doses/day average and the trendline (red) dropping like a rock:

https://i.imgur.com/QL1kSkb.png

I know it’s Summer, you all want to go out and have a good time.

And for the “YOUNG” news from the UK today is this, hospitals reporting in today:

50% of Delta new cases UNDER THE AGE of 40.

Or 20-39 yr olds.

Same news from the US.

Ya, your read that correct FIFTY PERCENT. It’s not us Paleo’s anymore, its “the kids” to this time around. You’re not immune from Delta kids, you’re not THOR, you don’t have his hammer and you don’t live in Asgard (not Auyuittuq National Park).

Don’t put off getting vaxd kids(s). Stay safe. Enjoy life.

#39 yvr_lurker on 07.16.21 at 3:42 pm

How will the Gov’t be able to access all the financial information to assess whether someone is over 10M in assets? Joint accounts, hidden ownerships, different pensions from previous exmployers, evaluations of hard assets (houses, land, businesses) made by who exactly in Gov’t and the wealthy will invoke all sorts of legal challenges?….Self reporting of assets = completely unreliable…. .Seems unworkable…. Instead the feds and provincial Gov’t will increase the marginals to 60% with a flick of the switch to screw over those who are high earners and keep all of the favorable capital gains taxation rates as they are…. What they should do is signficantly increase the GST just like under Martin, put in much higher taxes on corporations and close the preferential treatment for those who live on captial gains/dividends/ and passive investments. However, without significantly cutting spending all of this is probably moot anyway. Just put the immigration numbers at 700K per year and all will be good (sarcastic…)

#40 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 3:42 pm

@#30 Quantity Gazillion

“As for the rich moving to another country…… any follow up comment that would legitimize absurdity.”

+++

I personally know of an excellent , young( mid 30’s) heart specialist ( son of a friend) that moved to the States.
They treat him like a GOD down there and he makes over $1 million US per year.
Low taxes, etc etc etc.
My family doctor sold his practice to a young kid who ran it for a year and then Trudeau changed the tax rules a few years back…. gone….moved to the States.
No more Family doctor… another drop in clinic at a strip mall like most Canucks these days.
“Free” health care…..FFS..

A friend whos an excellent refrigeration mechanic and his wife who is a nurse moved to Oregon…
Huge salary increase, no State tax, is way , way ,way further ahead financially.
He was planning on retiring back here…..
If this garbage becomes Law…..pffft.

Watch the exodus….
They will leave by the quintillian-zillion.
But dont worry….the woke will find someone else to blame.

#41 Leanne on 07.16.21 at 3:46 pm

I would completely support a small tax (well below 1% per year) on total assets above a relatively low level (ie. $250k pp). This would likely raise more money, would be more fair, and would hit those who won the housing market lottery, intergenerational wealth and those with defined benefit pensions that most could only dream of. Full disclosure this would also hit me and I think it
is totally reasonable.

#42 truefacts on 07.16.21 at 3:50 pm

This is the root of the FIRE movement.
Why work if the govt just takes it away?
Just enjoy life and don’t bother.

Unfortunately named “Laffer Curve” explains this, but envy always wins out over logic.

#43 Pylot Project on 07.16.21 at 3:56 pm

One-time wealth tax? That sounds awfully similar to the temporary income tax back in 1917.

#44 Sail Away on 07.16.21 at 3:58 pm

Burn it all down. History, economy, future relevance.

#45 Gen Z on 07.16.21 at 3:59 pm

Boomers and real estate speculators should pay a capital gains tax on their NRV (Net Realizable Value) of their homes.

If they paid $10,000 for their home in 1975, but it’s worth $45,000 adjusted for inflation, the $35,000 is not taxable, but if they sold it for $1,045,000, the 1 mil should be taxable.

#46 mike from mtl on 07.16.21 at 4:00 pm

#37 Dolce Vita on 07.16.21 at 3:37 pm

The FUD about “delta” is debunked by the a UK government department – the virus is getting better at transmission but is actually less virulent. Exactly what you’d expect.

The current vaccines are even BETTER at their job of providing prior protection from serious illness. Nowhere does Pfizer or anyone else state will ever sterilise it. So stop testing for useless cases, get the vax and get on with life.

Note pg. 39 table 8.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001354/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf

#47 Brian Ripley on 07.16.21 at 4:01 pm

TAXES
​Simon J. Thorpe agrees in his 12 page PDF:
A Flat Rate Financial Transaction Tax to replace all taxes?

​What an excellent idea! Shame that more people didn’t take notice – there are just 17 citations to his (Edgar Feige’s) paper in Google Scholar. It’s about time he got the recognition he deserved- and about time his forward thinking ideas got taken seriously.

Advantages of a Flat Rate FTT (Financial Transaction Tax) October 2010 by:
Simon J. Thorpe, CNRS Research Director (DRCE), CerCo (CNRS-UT3), TMBI (Univ. Toulouse), BrainChip Inc

A Flat Rate FTT is fair.
A Flat Rate FTT is cheap to implement.
A Flat Rate FTT would be virtually impossible to avoid.
Removing conventional taxes would make tax havens largely irrelevant.
A Flat Rate FTT would provide a level playing field.
A Flat Rate FTT taxes those actors in the economy who can pay.
The abolition of taxes on profits would be a major incentive to the economy.
Increased incentives to short production supply chains.
Increased incentives for local exchanges.

Read the full argument: http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/category/apt

AND:
“The global financial crime wave is no accident Financial crime is a feature of our global financial system not a bug.” said pioneering economist Susan Strange. ​November 28, 2018 by Naomi Fowler
Financial Secrecy Index – 2018 Results

Canada ranks 21 out of 112 jurisdictions after Switzerland (1), the USA (2) and the Cayman Islands (3).

​“Canada and the U.S. are the two most lax jurisdictions in the world when it comes to the rules for preventing the incorporation of anonymous shell companies. What’s more, corporate service providers operating in those two countries are less compliant than those operating in Ghana, Lithuania, or Barbados, and follow laxer rules than those in Malaysia or the Cayman Islands.”

#48 The West on 07.16.21 at 4:06 pm

“In short, it doesn’t work. Rich people don’t usually have liquid assets waiting nicely to be Hoovered. Their wealth resides in land, buildings, equity and operating companies. If a government wants to take, say 1% or 2% a year of a family’s overall holdings, then stuff has to be sold. So, how does an entrepreneur peel off a little hunk of a grocery store chain? Or a shipyard? Or an online platform? And what’s the economic benefit of being one of the few countries on earth where the government sucks off more than half a successful person’s annual income, then come back for a bite of what’s left?”

Your words are apt Garth, like you ran the finances of a country or something? Unfortunately, (and I mean this sincerely) it’s wasted wisdom. Arthur Laffer has empirically proven that “collective” economic policy leads to social ruin and collapse. It cannot be argued. Every. Single. Time.

Begs the question, doesn’t it – is this being done to a purposeful end? Who is the maestro leading the choir?

#49 Sail Away on 07.16.21 at 4:07 pm

#36 Felix on 07.16.21 at 3:36 pm

Happy Feline Friday!

Did you know:

A group of cats is called a “clowder.”

———

Did you know cougar meat cooks up white, like turkey, and is surprisingly delicious?

Question: If three cougars were cooked in a common vat, could we call it a ‘clowder chowder’?

#50 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 4:08 pm

@#40 Leanne

Yep.
A Flat tax of say 10% ( because you KNOW it will increase over time) on EARNINGS/INCOME for everyone.

No deductions.
No slickster accountant shell games.
No Tax lawyers.

10% on you or your company whether you are a billionaire or a welfare bum.
Mr Billionaire pays $100,000,000 per year
Mr Bum pays $100 per year.
Thats about as fair as it gets.

#51 yvr2zrh on 07.16.21 at 4:13 pm

I think one needs to think of a wealth tax not as incremental but as a part of the overall system. I am very much in favor of some shifting of taxation away from income to assets since the wealth divide has made it difficult for people – no matter how much they earn – to cross that great chasm of having no assets to many assets.
That being said – a wealth tax on its own should be combined not just a reduction in income taxes – but – an reduction or total elimination of capital gains taxes. If you are going to tax the capital – why tax the gain? Here in Switzerland we have zero capital gains (except real estate) but we do have a very minor wealth tax. Our income taxes are also very low. Thus – those who truly have the most (think billions) able to subsidize everyone. The rate is quite low (around 0.1% of net assets) – but one must pay it every single year.

Sitting across the pond makes me think that Canada has to change the burden from income earners to wealth holders. Also – by eliminating or reducing capital gains taxes – you can also encourage risk taking.

Think about it. Why do we feel so necessary to tax some poor doctor earning ~400,000 per year at 50% but we don’t feel it is ok to tax those who may have (for example) greater than $3 million of assets?

Why do we feel sorry for Grandma in her $8 million fully-paid house in Vancouver in that she can’t seem to come up with the cash to pay her property taxes which some 25-year old brilliant successful entrepreneur who might be so lucky to make $500k is seen to be taxed at 50%?

I am in favor of a wealth tax but no as an addition but part of a complete overhaul and redistribution of taxation to asset holders from income earners.

#52 Brian Ripley on 07.16.21 at 4:16 pm

Speaking of “taxing” wealth… Trading Markets can do that as well:

My Millionaire Metric and Bitcoin Charts are up:
http://www.chpc.biz/

In June 2021 the nominal price of gold dropped 7% M/M denominated in USD and down 6% M/M in CAD. Over 10 years, the nominal price of gold has gone up 17% in USD and 47% in CAD. The TSX Gold Index is heading back towards the 2020 high.

​In June 2021 Bitcoin USD prices took another serious hit as sellers unloaded. Meanwhile Single Family Detached USD prices in Toronto and in Vancouver remained at new highs with a rising USD/CAD ratio as buyers kept engaged and exuberantly receptive to the pandemic pricing on offer.

#53 yvr2zrh on 07.16.21 at 4:17 pm

A follow-up – shame on me for not actually reading the article – I did not even notice Switzerland was mentioned.

The key reason we have a successful wealth tax is it is used to keep income taxes very low – and – – we have no capital gains tax – -zero – – none – – (except for punitive speculation taxes on real estate).

Would you support a wealth tax if you never had to pay capital gains tax ever again? That’s the key!!! I certainly would – and I would never – ever – want to take capital gains tax in exchange for never having any more wealth tax. So – before you knock it as bad policy – I think most people here would never have it any other way.

#54 Alberta Ed on 07.16.21 at 4:18 pm

I suspect there is a serious financial industry for folks with giant net worth which can move assets quietly and invisibly to avoid government’s grasp.

#55 Neo on 07.16.21 at 4:21 pm

#21 Dolce Vita on 07.16.21 at 2:59 pm

Case counts are so 2020. Get with the program here.

#56 Damifino on 07.16.21 at 4:23 pm

#4 AO1

If NPD or liberals get elected, I’m asking my boss to transfer me to the US. I’m done here.
——————-

Why haven’t you already left? Both the Liberals and NDP are already elected. They run the present government and very probably the next one.

They’re inseparable. Think Laurel & Hardy, Penn & Teller, Cheech & Chong, Hall & Oates. Like that.

(BTW, I see that Mister Dollar Cubed is even more misguided than I’d originally thought).

#57 ts on 07.16.21 at 4:24 pm

18 Squire on 07.16.21 at 2:54 pm

The USA is even more socialist than Canada – defund the police, CRT, supporting every socialist group around. The USA is only 2nd to Canada in spending. Better keep on looking.

#58 neo on 07.16.21 at 4:24 pm

#45 mike from mtl on 07.16.21 at 4:00 pm
#37 Dolce Vita on 07.16.21 at 3:37 pm

The FUD about “delta” is debunked by the a UK government department – the virus is getting better at transmission but is actually less virulent. Exactly what you’d expect.

The current vaccines are even BETTER at their job of providing prior protection from serious illness. Nowhere does Pfizer or anyone else state will ever sterilise it. So stop testing for useless cases, get the vax and get on with life.

********************************************

Well, that or they are achieving natural herd immunity because of 16 months of exposure and the virus is starting to behave like most do at this point in the cycle ie. spread more but are more benign. Or a combination of the two but definitely not JUST because of the vaccine.

#59 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.16.21 at 4:24 pm

#35 A commie is a commie is a commie on 07.16.21 at 3:36 pm
They’re always lurking about.. itching to steal what they never earned or created.
—————
Not commies.
They are “porch pirates” waiting to snatch the Amazon delivery package.
I see them all the time.
Another by-product of capitalism.
If you wanna catch them, put an empty package on the porch, and then whack ’em with a baseball bat.
Works every time.

#60 R on 07.16.21 at 4:26 pm

Start taxing Real Estate gains. To me it’s a win/win. It would throw some cold water on the Real Estate Market, the govt would get a real chuck of $, and people would understand better financial risk. How would the funds inside a RRSP be valued ? Are they going to tax these before they are withdrawn ?

#61 Doug t on 07.16.21 at 4:29 pm

#48 sailaway

I hope you aren’t a cat hunter as well – truly horrible – might as well go to Africa and shoot a lion ☠

#62 RG on 07.16.21 at 4:31 pm

Courtesy the feds:
ESTIMATING THE TOP TAIL OF THE FAMILY WEALTH DISTRIBUTION IN CANADA
https://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/web/default/files/Documents/Reports/RP-2021-007-S/RP-2021-007-S_en.pdf

tl;dr:

Household assets, liabilities and net worth, Canada, 2019 Q4:
Financial assets $7.5T (Pensions, financial assets, unlisted shares, cash)
Non-financial assets $6.5T (real estate and durable goods)
Total liabilities ($2.3T) (mortgages and credit)
Net worth $11.7T

Distribution (2016) (public data / parliamentary model)
Top 20%: 67.2% / 73.5%
Middle 40% 30.5% / 25.3%
Bottom 40% 2.3% / 1.2%

Lots for the taking in that financial assets pile if you’re a socialist!

#63 Grunt on 07.16.21 at 4:31 pm

Garth ironic you mention the Cons last. The party is such a mess its them giving the tax the rich the upper hand.

#64 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 4:32 pm

#35 A commie is a commie is a commie on 07.16.21 at 3:36 pm
They’re always lurking about.. itching to steal what they never earned or created.

————

Imagine complaining about people getting money that they didn’t work for on a blog literally about passive investment income.

#65 tkid on 07.16.21 at 4:35 pm

Didn’t Smoking Man predict Canada would go communist?

#66 baloney Sandwitch on 07.16.21 at 4:38 pm

I think the prime candidates for a wealth tax are non-reg financial assets and real estate. There will also be a punitive exit tax (probably around 50%) if you want to take your money out of the country, together with tax on your assets held abroad.

#67 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.16.21 at 4:40 pm

#49 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 4:08 pm
@#40 Leanne

Yep.
A Flat tax of say 10% ( because you KNOW it will increase over time) on EARNINGS/INCOME for everyone.

No deductions.
No slickster accountant shell games.
No Tax lawyers.

10% on you or your company whether you are a billionaire or a welfare bum.
Mr Billionaire pays $100,000,000 per year
Mr Bum pays $100 per year.
Thats about as fair as it gets.
—————-
Simple solutions for simple people.
Nonplussed would say, that billionaires don’t really have that much money.
All tied up in shares in their companies.
So, you’re advocating for a Wealth Tax.
But, Mr. Karma Bum would vote for you.

#68 wiggleroom on 07.16.21 at 4:51 pm

Serious question – does anyone actually NEED more 10 million dollars? Is it ethical to have that much wealth concentrated in one household? Personally I am not opposed to a 10MM+ wealth tax.

Taxing consumption also makes sense. Luxuries, sin taxes, higher HST, carbon tax – anything to reduce consumption and environmental devastation and help pay down this debt.

However, I don’t agree with any new taxes as an excuse to continue the frivolous government spending. This needs to stop! I understand spending to avoid disaster in emergency situations, but enough is enough. CERB – I get it. But that’s it! After this level of high spending in a time of emergency, we should be dropping immediately into serious austerity measures.

Households with $10 million in net worth do not have $10 million. They have assets, usually businesses. And employees. This is productive wealth. – Garth

#69 Reximus on 07.16.21 at 4:52 pm

on the other hand…seeing how the 1% club saw a 30+% increase in wealth during the pandemic, doesnt seem like they would really miss it much

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2021/04/30/american-billionaires-have-gotten-12-trillion-richer-during-the-pandemic/?sh=4626ac72f557

This is Canada, and that is America. – Garth

#70 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 4:55 pm

@#66 Perturbed Ponzie’ Pay in Peril
“Simple solutions for simple people.”

+++

Gee Ponzie.
Since you’re an accountant I’ll take a bit of cheese with that whine.
Thou doth protest too loudly.
Would we need as many accountants if our tax forms asked us one question.
“How much did you earn last year?”

Please give us 10%

#71 A commie is a commie is a commie on 07.16.21 at 4:56 pm

#63 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 4:32 pm

#35 A commie is a commie is a commie on 07.16.21 at 3:36 pm
They’re always lurking about.. itching to steal what they never earned or created.

————

Imagine complaining about people getting money that they didn’t work for on a blog literally about passive investment income.
..

Some of us work with brains and capital… others with their time…

No I don’t want fries with that…

#72 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 5:00 pm

@#58 Ponzies Poop Package

“If you wanna catch them, put an empty package on the porch, and then whack ’em with a baseball bat.
Works every tim”

+++
Why waste time waiting and risk getting stabbed.

Go to your nearest dog Park.
Take all the poop bags.
Get a small box.
Put a heavy spring in the box.
Put a piece of wood that just fits inside.
Dump all the dog poop in the box( add a bit of water to really get things messy).
Close the box. ( you may need help).
Wrap it up.
Leave it for a porch pirate.

#73 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.16.21 at 5:01 pm

Obviously, taxes will go up.
Reminds me of a German drinking song:
Wer will das bezahlen?
Wer hat soviel Geld?
Wer hat soviel Binke, Binke?
Wer hat soviel Geld?
—————–
Many countries in Europe have a tax on financial transactions.
Makes sense to me.
We’re taxing haircuts. why not stock trades?
Just asking.

#74 leebow on 07.16.21 at 5:02 pm

You forgot Russia and China that charged a one-time 100% tax on all privately held assets.

#75 Bill on 07.16.21 at 5:06 pm

Governments should reduce support for municipalities/regions, thereby saving costs. This then means that municipalities/regions can greatly raise taxes on homes (& business buildings).

#76 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 5:09 pm

@#72 Leebow
“You forgot Russia and China that charged a one-time 100% tax on all privately held assets.”

++++

Or they would just shoot you for being “rich” comrade.

#77 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 5:12 pm

@#72 Punative Ponzies
“We’re taxing haircuts. why not stock trades?
Just asking.”

+++
I risk MY after tax income on a stock investment….
Do I get a tax refund if the stock goes down?

#78 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 5:15 pm

@#72 Ponzies Party Putsch
“Reminds me of a German drinking song:

+++

Did you wear a brown shirt and stand at attention when singing that?

#79 45north on 07.16.21 at 5:15 pm

New Democrat finance critic Peter Julian says bringing in a wealth tax will be a key debate topic in this coming campaign. NES wants his party to be the one spearheading the assault on net worth. The Cons says this makes them the only ones who can see straight. And meanwhile, as stated, eight in ten voters believe what they’re told – somebody else can foot the bill.

There’s something that’s kind of obvious – you need a wealth tax because you need more money.

The Conservatives need to stick to their guns. They’re the only ones who can see straight.

#80 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 5:15 pm

#70 A commie is a commie is a commie on 07.16.21 at 4:56 pm
Some of us work with brains and capital… others with their time

Owning things isn’t work.
But at least you readily admit that the only reason you’re making money is because you already have money (capital), which grows on its own with no further input or work on your part (passive income).

It’s nice to meet a capitalist with no delusions of grandeur, who doesn’t weave pretty stories about how hard they work while making their money through their own idleness.

If more people had capital, it would enable them to work with their brains instead of their time.

#81 Sunny Daze on 07.16.21 at 5:19 pm

10 year is sick.

Gonna need a wider balance sheet.

What comes after trillion…

Careful out there folks. Latest news out of Israel is a little concerning.

Stay safe. Lots of outdoor fun to be had. Time will tell the tale and show the way as always.

#82 kommykim on 07.16.21 at 5:25 pm

RE: #27 Stone on 07.16.21 at 3:07 pm
Until a year ago, I was part of the working population. Didn’t stop me from enjoying the fruits of delayed gratification and retire in my mid 40s. I know how to do math.

=======================================

Careful. Math can be racist:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-removes-anti-racism-text-from-math-curriculum-preamble-2/

#83 ts on 07.16.21 at 5:25 pm

#74 Bill on 07.16.21 at 5:06 pm

That’s right. And municipalities should also stop wasting money on unnecessary things like changing street names (Dundas) which is costing taxpayers over $6 million at a time (Covid) where we need to reign in spending – not bend to every socialist agenda out there.

#84 Concerned Citizen on 07.16.21 at 5:26 pm

A wealth tax isn’t the answer because it’s too hard to implement and too easy to evade. But we sure need to do something if we care about social cohesion and curbing populist impulses. Trade and technology were already concentrating wealth rapidly before the Great Recession, and ever since central banks have made it their primary mission to turn millionaires into billionaires, and billionaires into trillionaires, all while bringing about a lower standard of living for everyone else (that is, the vast majority of the population). I, for one, would prefer to avoid the Elysium (starring Matt Damon!) outcome, but that’s the direction we’re heading in right now.

A few humble ideas:

– higher GST (very hard tax to evade, and we already exempt key items and have the GST rebate to help low income folks)

– lower, or possibly even eliminate, the capital gains deduction (in this day and age of excess capital – witness cryptos, NFTs, meme stocks, etc. – there is little reason money made from money should be taxed less than money made from labour)

– modernize and enforce anti-trust legislation (without monopoly/oligopoly power, it’s hard to amass obscene wealth in the first place – more competition would also be great for the economy and Canadians)

– more fully tax stock options (let’s face it, most folks aren’t getting obscenely rich from salary but rather from stock)

– enforce the tax laws and eliminate tax loopholes (sick of freeloaders that want all the benefits of Canada but hide all their money in tax shelters offshore)

More broadly I do think that as a society, we need to have a discussion about the ethics of extreme wealth and/or income inequality. Is it the in the best interests of society to have someone like Jeff Bezos be worth $200B? Or what about a CEO whose income is 1,000 times that of his average employee? Taking issue with such disparities doesn’t necessarily make one a socialist. We have already curbed many of the excesses of capitalism over the last 200 years – why we don’t have 10-year olds working 16 hours a day in coal mines, for example – and perhaps we need to curb a few more that are coming to the fore in the modern age. With AI possibly around the corner, the chasm will grow that much further and more rapidly unless we do something about it.

#85 Heather on 07.16.21 at 5:28 pm

So, who is going to track down the assets and liabilities to calculate the net worth? Will the banks and financial advisers be required to report their client’s info? And what about art? And lots of cash hidden in the house in a vault or safe? I’m sure glad I’m not in that category.

#86 IHCTD9 on 07.16.21 at 5:28 pm

No biggie. The NDP has never run Canada, and never will either, if they keep filling the benches with dudes like NES.

#87 MBA101 on 07.16.21 at 5:32 pm

@#49 crowdedelevatorfartz

Yep.
A Flat tax of say 10% ( because you KNOW it will increase over time) on EARNINGS/INCOME for everyone.

No deductions.
No slickster accountant shell games.
No Tax lawyers.

———————————-

You realize that earnings/income are a function of slickster accountants? 100 billion in revenues and zero income would pay zero tax in your system. Sign me up.

#88 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 07.16.21 at 5:32 pm

Don’t compromise our health care resources, all you inbred southern hillbillies.

Just.

Stay.

Home.

#89 Toni on 07.16.21 at 5:36 pm

Dear Garth,
I read your Blog everyday, where you mostly criticize the Government ,what they do wrong and what not, and that’s fine by me, but you seem very fixated in hammering them about this so-called WeathTax.
From time to time, I also read on your blog that you are concerned (more like a mention) about the ever-expanding Wealth gap that Canada (and the World) has. So I wonder, how interested are you in reducing such gap? how would you go about fixing it ?
WealthTax is wrong in your view, but how wrong is it in comparison, given that the 10 richest individuals on Earth, own the same as 50% of its poorest population?

Please, I would really like to hear your views on this.
Thank you,
Toni

#90 IHCTD9 on 07.16.21 at 5:37 pm

#79 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 5:15 pm

Owning things isn’t work.

——

Good grief… Obviously you don’t own too much.

#91 paulo on 07.16.21 at 5:38 pm

Taxing the crap out of the top couple of percent earners/wealthy is a very short sighted plan. these people are usually the one that take chances and build countries by as a side effect of there wealth, create commerce, jobs and tax base. money has no nationality and in many cases moves to the jurisdiction that is least expensive……. . what we need to do is revisit a complete modernization of our tax system ,one that puts the horse before the cart: the consumption tax would be the weapon of choice. a carefully designed consumption tax applied uniformly coast to coast with say a couple of versions, one for regular consumers , one for large corporations applied to all goods and services consumed. the elimination of all other taxes including income taxes and property taxes a single tax when you consume! extremely fair by default everybody pays there fair share. i wonder if the goverment has ever taken a close look and studied it.

#92 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.16.21 at 5:38 pm

#77 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 5:15 pm
@#72 Ponzies Party Putsch
“Reminds me of a German drinking song:

+++

Did you wear a brown shirt and stand at attention when singing that?
—————-
No, actually a pink T-shirt.
I was way ahead of the time.

#93 leebow on 07.16.21 at 5:38 pm

#75 crowdedelevatorfartz

I don’t think they had to find a reason to shoot anyone. But it was worth it in the end.

#94 Deano on 07.16.21 at 5:43 pm

I hear this all the time…”b-b-but they’ll just take their money!”.

You answered this question with your examples Garth…countries do it and it works. But we’ll never hear that from you. I like you Garth, but I sure as hell don’t agree with everything you say.

#95 Confucius say ... on 07.16.21 at 5:43 pm

Whoever said money can’t buy happiness … obviously doesn’t have enough money.

#96 OK, Doomer on 07.16.21 at 5:45 pm

#44 Gen Z on 07.16.21 at 3:59 pm
Boomers and real estate speculators should pay a capital gains tax on their NRV (Net Realizable Value) of their homes.

If they paid $10,000 for their home in 1975, but it’s worth $45,000 adjusted for inflation, the $35,000 is not taxable, but if they sold it for $1,045,000, the 1 mil should be taxable.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That’s not much of an argument. My first house was 600 square feet, a dirt basement, had one bathroom, linoleum and arborite (you might have to Google those on your iPhone 20, which costs more than my first 6 cars). My mortgage was also at 8% and that was considered cheap. A house like that today would be torn down in a nano-second by a Mill with a $500,000 mortgage burning a hole in zer pocket. If the price of the house is up, you guys did it to yourselves. Not sure why you expect someone else to fork over for your lack of discipline and forethought.

When Mills start to realize that the world doesn’t owe them a steam shower and granite and marble in a starter home they’ll realize how much they’ve been played. If they read Atlas Shrugged rather than watched the Kardashians they’d be further ahead.

#97 Another Deckchair on 07.16.21 at 5:47 pm

Really weird.

People think the wealthy sit around on piles of gold coins?

What do they do with their money? Create jobs by spending it, business ventures, or investing it.

Only an idiot would not make their money work for them, but somehow that’s how those less fortunate in the brains department seem think.

#98 Re-Cowtown on 07.16.21 at 5:49 pm

#82 Concerned Citizen on 07.16.21 at 5:26 pm
A wealth tax isn’t the answer because it’s too hard to implement and too easy to evade. But we sure need to do something if we care about social cohesion and curbing populist impulses.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“Populist Impulses??” spoken like an out of touch elite. I guess the Cubans just don’t understand how lucky they’ve been for the past 62 years of socialism and need to curb their “populist impulses”.

Populism is just another way of saying: “I’m sick of your elitist crap and I’m not paying the bills for any more of your dumb ideas.”

#99 Joseph R. on 07.16.21 at 5:50 pm

#49 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 4:08 pm
@#40 Leanne

Yep.
A Flat tax of say 10% ( because you KNOW it will increase over time) on EARNINGS/INCOME for everyone.

No deductions.
No slickster accountant shell games.
No Tax lawyers.

10% on you or your company whether you are a billionaire or a welfare bum.
Mr Billionaire pays $100,000,000 per year
Mr Bum pays $100 per year.
Thats about as fair as it gets.

———————————————————–

That’s how the Soviet Union saw it too. The URSS had a flat income tax from 10-13%, regardless of income level.

After the WWII, Stalin introduced a 6% childless tax to boost the population (USSR lost 25 million people in WWII).

Only in 1972 did they introduced some form of progressive taxation. The lowest income no longer paid income tax:

https://www.nytimes.com/1972/12/27/archives/soviet-ending-income-tax-for-low-paid.html

#100 Another Deckchair on 07.16.21 at 5:56 pm

Hey @79 SunShowers

I make money because I’m damn good at what I do, and I have the smarts to actually do it to completion.

I hope I’m still retired (keep trying), but do expect my income from actually working in 2022 to be greater than many families make. I have 3 companies who want to “do work together”.

What’s your excuse?

#101 Get Smart on 07.16.21 at 5:57 pm

#3 A Metallurgist on 07.16.21 at 2:13 pm

You forgot Liechtenstein.

Wealth is calculated (with small deductions). A multiplier of 4% (could change) is applied to calculate a nominal income which is then added to employment income.

Seems to work – but it’s a tiny country, and there’s a low tax rate on income.

______________________________________________________________

Get Smart (TV Series)
Aboard the Orient Express (1965)
Johnny Carson: Special Guest Conductor

Train Conductor : Passports, please. Passports. We are now entering Liechtenstein.

[Smart hands the conductor his passport. The conductor stamps it, and leaves]

Train Conductor : [seconds later, the conductor returns] Passports, please. Passports. We are now leaving Liechtenstein.

#102 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.16.21 at 6:00 pm

#69 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 4:55 pm
@#66 Perturbed Ponzie’ Pay in Peril
“Simple solutions for simple people.”

+++

Gee Ponzie.
Since you’re an accountant I’ll take a bit of cheese with that whine.
Thou doth protest too loudly.
Would we need as many accountants if our tax forms asked us one question.
“How much did you earn last year?”

Please give us 10%
—————
I’m not a tax accountant.
MBA working with companies on improving their bottom line.
Tax work is far to structured and boring.

#103 Cici on 07.16.21 at 6:07 pm

#28 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 3:12 pm
Real estate and land are already taxed proportionally to value.

Portfolios can be taxed relatively painlessly. So you need to sell a fraction of some assets of your own choosing to cover a tax liability, big whoop.

Business equity is more tricky. I think a good idea would be to count a fraction of business equity as income, to be taxed as income when tax time comes around.
____________________________________________

Taxing portfolios won’t be painless if those of us who are trying to be responsible and save for our own retirements decide to put our after-tax dollars to better use by spending them… and probably in other jurisdictions.

If the majority of Canadians’ plan is to live it up for instant gratification and suckle the Government tittie during the retirement, and I can jump on that train too.

Will buy a Tesla or a boat now and start blowing my entire monthly salary on fun stuff!

Hope there’ll be enough richies with 10M and over to bale us all out come retirement!!

#104 Joseph R. on 07.16.21 at 6:09 pm

#73 leebow on 07.16.21 at 5:02 pm
You forgot Russia and China that charged a one-time 100% tax on all privately held assets.

——————————————————–

When did that occur? Private property was tolerated in the USSR, as long as it was obtained legally. You could own a house, several cars, paintings, jewellery,…

You simply could not own a “means of production”, like a shop or a factory.

#105 Shirl Clarts on 07.16.21 at 6:16 pm

We were at a splash pad with the kids this summer when some guy walked his pit bull into the fountains to cool him down… or socialize him with the kids, maybe?

Seriously?! Yeah, get a clue, man. This place is a safe place for kids. Oh, and you could cut the tension in the air with a knife.

#106 Ok, Doomer on 07.16.21 at 6:21 pm

#102 Joseph R. on 07.16.21 at 6:09 pm
#73 leebow on 07.16.21 at 5:02 pm
You forgot Russia and China that charged a one-time 100% tax on all privately held assets.

——————————————————–

When did that occur? Private property was tolerated in the USSR, as long as it was obtained legally. You could own a house, several cars, paintings, jewellery,…

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

What planet did you parachute in from? Socialists were busy killing an terrorizing anyone who opposed them. They didn’t let them have stuff. It ALL belonged to the State. Stalin implemented the Holodomor in Ukraine and starved 6 million to death by stripping away every grain of wheat that they had grown. Maybe you should ask someone who lived through it rather than listening to a University prof who read about it on PRAVDA.

Or ask Pol Pot in Cambodia. Simply owning a pair of glasses made you an enemy of the state and was a quick trip to the KF.

I’m constantly amazed by how poorly educated some people are. What’s most astounding is that the longer many have been in university, the more poorly educated they become.

#107 Barb on 07.16.21 at 6:23 pm

#23
“They didn’t become rich because they’re stupid.
They will move their money or just leave.”

——————————————–
Exactly.
To where T2 has already hidden his…offshore.

#108 Concerned Citizen on 07.16.21 at 6:28 pm

#96 Re-Cowtown, you very clearly misunderstood what I meant by “populist impulses”. A cursory look at history will show you what happens when wealth is concentrated and policy makers go out of their way to make sure it is even more concentrated – as we are seeing now with central bankers in particular. Populism is what happens, and it often isn’t pretty.

Why do you think Trump got elected? It wasn’t his dipomacy and charming personality. It’s because the rust belt saw all their jobs exported to Mexico and Asia over the last 3 decades, and were angry with the system. Voting Trump was a big F U to the so-called coastal elites – so they could get a taste of the pain. That’s an example of a populist movement, and it doesn’t happen absent societal breakdown.

We’re seeing more populist movements worldwide, and no amount of money printing to make the wealthy and huge corporations even richer is going to help the situation – in fact I would argue it will inevitably make things worse.

#109 cuke and tomato pickere on 07.16.21 at 6:34 pm

WHY IS THE MARKET DOWN TODAY ASWELL AS THE FUTURES?

#110 Joseph R. on 07.16.21 at 6:45 pm

#96 Re-Cowtown on 07.16.21 at 5:49 pm
#82 Concerned Citizen on 07.16.21 at 5:26 pm
A wealth tax isn’t the answer because it’s too hard to implement and too easy to evade. But we sure need to do something if we care about social cohesion and curbing populist impulses.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Populism is just another way of saying: “I’m sick of your elitist crap and I’m not paying the bills for any more of your dumb ideas.”

—————————————————————–

You will fit well with the anti-pipeline protesters; Same mindset, same hatred of the current government.

#111 Buford Wilson on 07.16.21 at 6:50 pm

Charge a 15% tax on the value of Teslas that anybody owns.

#112 Nonplused on 07.16.21 at 7:06 pm

“In short, it doesn’t work. Rich people don’t usually have liquid assets waiting nicely to be Hoovered. Their wealth resides in land, buildings, equity and operating companies. If a government wants to take, say 1% or 2% a year of a family’s overall holdings, then stuff has to be sold. So, how does an entrepreneur peel off a little hunk of a grocery store chain? Or a shipyard? Or an online platform? And what’s the economic benefit of being one of the few countries on earth where the government sucks off more than half a successful person’s annual income, then come back for a bite of what’s left?”

This is, of course, true, but seemingly beyond the cognitive abilities of most people.

And anyway there is already a “wealth tax”. Sooner or later everyone dies, and their estate gets subject to capital gains taxes in the year of death. The exact number is hard to estimate because it depends on the ratio of current value to initial investment, but in the case of most rich people the amount is going to be “a lot”.

All something like a 1% wealth tax is going to do is move forward the date at which the government is going to receive that payment.

An argument could be made that a 1% wealth tax will directly reduce revenues from capital gains taxes because the “wealth” has already exited the payer’s portfolio.

If they want to raise taxes on the rich, just up the current taxes. No need to formulate another extremely complex tax.

#113 VGRO and chill on 07.16.21 at 7:06 pm

The European wealth taxes had some obvious issues that made them not work:
1. It’s easy to move within the Eurozone, due to the existence of the EU. Your country brought in a wealth tax? Move over one country. Easy.
2. The bar for it was set pretty low in a lot of cases, so there were people fighting against it.
3. Some things like art and antiques were usually excluded, so astute rich people were able to simply shelter more wealth that way.

I think we would have reasonable compliance here in Canada with a wealth tax, and not as much people trying to skirt it.

Ever hear that one joke about Canadians?

How do you get a bunch of Canadians to get in a boat?

You say, “OK Canadians, get in the boat.”

#114 Yukon Elvis on 07.16.21 at 7:08 pm

#83 Heather on 07.16.21 at 5:28 pm
So, who is going to track down the assets and liabilities to calculate the net worth?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Spies. Pay them a 10% finders fee. When the spies get rich the cycle starts again with new spies. Can’t miss.

#115 Chris on 07.16.21 at 7:11 pm

Lets have a 1% to 2% year union tax on union funds and union pension funds. Lets have a 1% to 2% yearly tax on all politicians pension values tax. Lets start with NDP Singh’s pension value and all the Liberals friends.

#116 leebow on 07.16.21 at 7:16 pm

#102 Joseph R.

There was a lot of expropriation in different forms, to the total of 100%. Most of it finished by 1928. How many people are there who had any substantial wealth in 1917, and managed to pass that wealth to their descendants in 1991? You won’t find any. The closest I know of is one person who kinda retained the principal up to 1967. A remarkable story.

For property, you are way off. You could legally own shops and means of production in certain parts of USSR, doing certain things. Average citizens couldn’t really own jewellery or multiple cars. I know that David Oistrakh collected diamonds and Brezhnev collected cars. But they weren’t ordinary citizens.

I studied USSR closely for a number of reasons.

#117 westcdn on 07.16.21 at 7:21 pm

I learn a lot from other people. That includes self promotion. I do not like the activity when it steals or harms others – left me sitting on the bench but I am smarter than you think and I will find a way to get on the field of dreams – we don’t need a catcher.

Someone put a couple of andronic chairs in the parking lot behind me – the berm hides the harm. They were placed for a great vista. So today I went to sit on one of them. They were gone. We have no shortage of low lives here either.

#118 Steve french on 07.16.21 at 7:25 pm

All those cancel culture warriors trying to eliminate any trace of British imperial history in Canada should realise 1 thing.

After you do that, you don’t arrive in woke utopia. What you are left with will be American capitalist imperialism and now Chinese military imperialism.

here’s a reality check: The world works through power.
Remove 1 power and you are no left with utopia. another, perhaps more extractive and totalitarian form of power will fill the void.

sure you can dismantle Canada but there will be plenty of other powers very interested in dividing the spoils.

Think carefully social justice warriors. Is this what you want ?

#119 Dean on 07.16.21 at 7:27 pm

Nonplused, don’t forget about already wealth taxes of land transfer tax, both provincial and municipal like Ontario, Toronto land transfer tax, annual property taxes and now some places like Vancouver and Toronto soon an annual 1% or 3% empty homes tax, vacant homes tax.

What about the annual garbage tax in Toronto which is tied to your house if you don’t pay. It is an annual tax disguised for garbage service but it used to be part of your property tax now it is an extra tax. I don’t know other provinces and municipalities but I’m sure there are many other taxes on property, wealth in Canada if anyone knows of other taxes on property or wealth please post it here.

#120 Wrk.dover on 07.16.21 at 7:29 pm

IHCTD9; A square body GM! What are you, a praying mantis? I drove an ’80 Scotsdale 600 miles a day six days in a row from Phoenix to NS in 1990, ferrying an installed trick SB to drop in my wife’s sleeper. I still wake up in the middle of the night swinging my arms around trying to get breathing room.

At least build your one off truck with a Ford extended cab on what ever frame you choose. I’m only 5-8, but I need to sit against the back seat to drive comfortably. Italian straight arm, though Italian I am not. I like a crumple zone between me and the controls. None of that exists in the square body.

The rest of your plan sounds like overdue fun.

Tax stupid ideas. There’d be a surplus.

#121 Sail Away on 07.16.21 at 7:30 pm

#109 Buford Wilson on 07.16.21 at 6:50 pm

Charge a 15% tax on the value of Teslas that anybody owns.

——–

I propose the same on your tricked-out Kia hatchback.

#122 tooshort on 07.16.21 at 7:34 pm

#103 SC

Did the dog eat the kids? Would you have reacted the same if it was any other mutt that we see here all the time?

Might not have been a dog friendly park which changes things but clearly the owner of the dog knew his dog could be in that environment or else he wouldnt have brought it there…

#123 Tarot Card on 07.16.21 at 7:36 pm

8 out of 10 voters believe what they are told

Yep that says it all

Imagine 30 percent of republicans in America believe Trump will be reinstated and the election is a fraud. 30 percent!

And fear not, Singh is also a master manipulator? sorry story teller? Actually no words can express him.
Let’s see
When Trudeau went black face, Singh said I will never work with a man like that, wow did he change colours opps I mean stripes, opps I don’t know what I mean

When a gun man was taken down at the GG’s house, Singh said if he was a man of colour he would have been shot. Really? I guess he hates police who don’t use violence to capture their man?

On aboriginal issues all Canadians are Racists.
I guess that includes all members of the NDP?

On Debt, tax the rich 60 billion and I will spend 100 billion and balance the budget.

I think it’s time to vote the Rhino Party at least they say we voting for a bunch of clowns why not elect real clowns

#124 Sail Away on 07.16.21 at 7:39 pm

#112 Yukon Elvis on 07.16.21 at 7:08 pm
#83 Heather on 07.16.21 at 5:28 pm

So, who is going to track down the assets and liabilities to calculate the net worth?

———

Spies. Pay them a 10% finders fee. When the spies get rich the cycle starts again with new spies. Can’t miss.

———

And assassins for the scofflaws. Don’t forget the assassins.

As a government union job, though, it’ll be similar to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTmLU9VOJlM

#125 Slim on 07.16.21 at 7:46 pm

People like Peter Julian should be figuring out how to create more wealth, instead of “stealing” it from someone else. Wouldn’t that be better for everybody?

#126 AntMan on 07.16.21 at 7:49 pm

Aren’t most assets purchased with after tax dollars? So wealth tax = double (or more) taxation. And this is fair? Any time someone uses the f(air) word it’s time to shut up and move on. They’re clearly grifters.

#127 Blessed_Canadian_Millenial on 07.16.21 at 7:50 pm

#90 IHCTD9 on 07.16.21 at 5:37 pm
#79 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 5:15 pm

Owning things isn’t work.

——

Good grief… Obviously you don’t own too much.

—————————

LOL, not only that, but SunShowers doesn’t realize or doesn’t want to admit that 99% of folks can “own” things.

It takes effort, dedication, and time. But it can be done.

Taxing more of something means we will get less of that particular thing. So taxing wealth inevitably will lead to less overall wealth.

How difficult is that to grasp?

#128 Joseph R. on 07.16.21 at 7:56 pm

#119 Dean on 07.16.21 at 7:27 pm
Nonplused, don’t forget about already wealth taxes of land transfer tax, both provincial and municipal like Ontario, Toronto land transfer tax, annual property taxes and now some places like Vancouver and Toronto soon an annual 1% or 3% empty homes tax, vacant homes tax.

What about the annual garbage tax in Toronto which is tied to your house if you don’t pay. It is an annual tax disguised for garbage service but it used to be part of your property tax now it is an extra tax. I don’t know other provinces and municipalities but I’m sure there are many other taxes on property, wealth in Canada if anyone knows of other taxes on property or wealth please post it here.

———————————————————————-

Municipal Property taxes and school taxes are examples of wealth taxes: they are based on the municipal property assesment. That assesment is done to determine the “most probable selling price” of your property, based on the average sales price of similar properties in your municipality.

You have to pay the taxes regardless of a transaction or not.

As far as garbage, water, sewers or other utilities, some municipalities based their revenue on a user fee (same price for everyone) and others on a tax schemes.

#129 Yukon Elvis on 07.16.21 at 8:03 pm

#86 IHCTD9 on 07.16.21 at 5:28 pm
No biggie. The NDP has never run Canada, and never will either, if they keep filling the benches with dudes like NES.
+++++++++++++++

Their chances get better every day. The greater the income/wealth inequality the greater their chances are.

#130 Blobby on 07.16.21 at 8:04 pm

It makes ZERO sense to ANYONE who has a business.

EVEN if you dont make a lot of money on your business, IF you keep the money in your business, you re-invest it, hire people, get business locations/etc.. And you do that to AVOID taxes. It makes more sense to produce more/make more money/etc than it does to pay tax on it.

If you now have to pay tax on your investments..

You will have to hire LESS people, downsize, shift money around into your own personal accounts/etc.

I used to be a fan of NDP, but if this is what they’re REALLY suggesting, that’s NUTS!

It’s going to cause people to lose their jobs!

#131 mark on 07.16.21 at 8:08 pm

This is the problem when you’ve civilized the world too much. People are comfortable being completely stupid and it’s always the people who did none of the work to get us here.

It’s like the rich family who has the one or two hippies or commies in their midst. It’s always the grandchildren who were a step or two removed from the actual work where the wealth was built.

#132 AM in MN on 07.16.21 at 8:10 pm

#118 Steve french on 07.16.21 at 7:25 pm

All those cancel culture warriors trying to eliminate any trace of British imperial history in Canada should realise 1 thing.

After you do that, you don’t arrive in woke utopia. What you are left with will be American capitalist imperialism and now Chinese military imperialism.

—————————————————–

Or worse, who knows, there’s lots to fight over in the Great White North, and my money wouldn’t be on the natives winning.

Check out the war zone that is South Africa today. From one of the wealthiest per capita societies 50 years ago to food lines and armed militias everywhere today. It will be broken into a dozen autonomous provinces before this is over. Say hello to Canada in 20 years if the anti-imperialism nonsense doesn’t stop.

I well remember the do-gooders of the ’80’s who pushed for this nonsense, especially Mulroney.

They had an old black guy on a news clip last night lamenting that things were better for him and his family back under apartheid.

A one-shot tax of $60B on business and asset owners would do nothing for the finances of Canada, where the central bank just printed $400B in a year!

If they want to dig out of the debt hole, the voters, who think Canada is a “rich” country, just need to quit saying no to every wealth creating industrial project. Until then, it’s going to be debt slavery for the masses.

#133 Jake on 07.16.21 at 8:15 pm

How about an extra tax on our public servants. A large tax base with the best pensions. Dip into their pockets for a change and stop tapping into the entrepreneurs who take on all the risk. Oh yeah, that won’t win any votes.

#134 Drill Baby Drill on 07.16.21 at 8:16 pm

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith – another fool.

#135 Joseph R. on 07.16.21 at 8:31 pm

#116 leebow on 07.16.21 at 7:16 pm
#102 Joseph R.

There was a lot of expropriation in different forms, to the total of 100%. Most of it finished by 1928. How many people are there who had any substantial wealth in 1917, and managed to pass that wealth to their descendants in 1991? You won’t find any. The closest I know of is one person who kinda retained the principal up to 1967. A remarkable story.

For property, you are way off. You could legally own shops and means of production in certain parts of USSR, doing certain things. Average citizens couldn’t really own jewellery or multiple cars. I know that David Oistrakh collected diamonds and Brezhnev collected cars. But they weren’t ordinary citizens.

I studied USSR closely for a number of reasons.

————————————————-

That would be news to me that private companies where able to flourish in the Soviet Union, at least before the perestroika the 80’s. The Soviet Union was a planned economy: a new plan was introduced every 5-7 years.

The Lenin’s New Economic Plan was fully ratified in 1928 after the “War Communism”; all “means of production” were, by then, nationalized.

The Black Market did exist and even was quite prolific during the Soviet System: Trucker could use the company truck after hours to conduct their side business. Factory managers would use their labour to force them to make products for their illicit business.

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1778&context=dlj

The Soviet system made it so that the main government revenue came from sales tax (what they called the “turnover tax”:

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/eb014108/full/html?skipTracking=true

#136 Expat on 07.16.21 at 8:44 pm

I’ve supported a family with my taxes for the last 33 years as a professional. I’m retiring in Asia starting in October and it’s going to be great. It’s a good time for me to leave Canada and take my investments with me; I’m not happy the direction this country is going.

#137 45north on 07.16.21 at 9:10 pm

Shirl Clarts We were at a splash pad with the kids this summer when some guy walked his pit bull into the fountains to cool him down… or socialize him with the kids, maybe?
Seriously?! Yeah, get a clue, man. This place is a safe place for kids. Oh, and you could cut the tension in the air with a knife.

tooshort Did the dog eat the kids? Would you have reacted the same if it was any other mutt that we see here all the time?
Might not have been a dog friendly park which changes things but clearly the owner of the dog knew his dog could be in that environment or else he wouldn’t have brought it there…

In Ottawa, dogs are not allowed in splash pads or in or around play structures. The mothers could have called Bylaw Enforcement and the guy would have got a fine. If they took some pictures, Bylaw could hunt him down.

I’d be in favour of banning him and his dog from the park.

#138 Overheardyou on 07.16.21 at 9:13 pm

Taking from those who have more than you. Some people really need to learn why they are worth what they have.

#139 mark on 07.16.21 at 9:19 pm

All right finally a dog pic to truly appreciate.

#140 Ken on 07.16.21 at 9:22 pm

Sorry, everyone will have to swallow a higher tax bill for the spendthrift governments we chose. It will be a combination of income/sales tax increases at the federal/provincial level and property taxes municipally, because those are the only taxes that collectively make a difference and are hard to avoid. Sadly, it won’t even be our own choice — the rest of the world will force our hand.

#141 fishman on 07.16.21 at 9:22 pm

A cute Pit Bull picture followed by future wealth taxes. This morning as I turned down a side street near the Olympic village a cop running on the sidewalk beside me. As I passed noticed he was fumbling with jamming a clip into a AR 15 or machine gun of some type. Any further curiosity vanished along with me. It may be no work owning something SunShowers. But its a hell of a lot of work, expensive & and sometimes dangerous keeping it. And I’ll bet that cop had a cheap high for the rest of the day.

#142 Diamond Dog on 07.16.21 at 9:26 pm

#87 Toni on 07.16.21 at 5:36 pm

You didn’t ask me, but I’ll take a crack at it. Leave the one time capital gain exemption… think about moving it up even but raise the capital gain rate from 50% to 62.5%. Most rich folks have gone corporate or have their assets in holding companies. If you really want to stick it to the rich, increase the cap gains tax.

Secondly, you could go after dividends and increase the tax rate there (32% I think). That would cause some lumps and bruises. Governments could also consider a wealth transfer tax, but lets step back from this for a moment. Why are we talking about tax increases to begin with?

Are we under taxed, or are governments overspending? A $354 billion dollar deficit, highest per capita by a lot within the G7 should be our first clue! If T2 and crew don’t reign it in and all indications are that they won’t, tax increases reflect past and present government failures to do their jobs. I’m generalizing somewhat, but that’s basically what it is. We have clear evidence of a failed government that begs to be replaced.

Why is it reduced down to the narrow lens of “raise taxes or lower spending”, its very likely a false choice. The solutions to our fiscal debt crisis could easily rest in regulations and the first place I would look is the regulations of food and Drugs through major amendments of Canada’s Food and Drugs Act in conjunction with hands on government day to day choices.

Traditionally, our federal and provincial governments spend around 40% or more on health care. How much money could this nation save if we dropped obesity levels by 50%? 30 billion? Higher? It was estimated to be 6 billion in 2006. Obesity rates and diseases like diabetes have near doubled since then and health care costs have likely tripled in the last 15 years. Are we spending as high as 100 billion on obesity in our health care systems not to mention lost revenue from lost employment, lost productivity and reduced lifespans?

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/obesity-excess-weight-rates-canadian-adults.html

In 1978/79, 49% of adults over the age of 18 were overweight or obese.

In 2004, 59% of adults over the age of 18 were overweight or obese.

In 2017, 64% of adults over the age of 18 are overweight or obese with the trend continuing to climb.

Along with these soaring numbers, is the ever higher consumption of added sugars. In the U.S., adult obesity is at 42%. Of this number, 80% are sick as in they’ve marbled their insides and their BMI (body fat index) is 20% or higher. Heart disease, NAFLD, kidney disease, cancers, diabetes, dementia, we’re killing ourselves with all the added sugars and glucose and stripped fibers and processed food and doing it slowly. Why are successive Canadian federal governments allowing some 75% added sugar in our food products?

Why do we have sugar in breads? Greed and addictive properties of sugar. There is no other valid reason and it’s the same reason for most added sugars in everything. If I was running as an MP in the next election, I would be yelling loud and clear the need to dramatically reduce added sugars in everything and lobby hard to get it done, war with food manufacturing giants be damned. This is the low hanging fruit dear readers, cut out the unnecessary added sugars and take a good long hard look at unnecessary food additives in general. The chemical links to auto immune diseases and cancers, if we want to end this shit show and fiscal nightmare, we have to regulate the food supply.

The measure of any successful government is the health of it’s citizens. Good things are worth repeating, if the measure of any successful government is the health of it’s citizens. The Libs failed to get it done like all the rest, time to replace them with a government that makes it maybe thee highest priority and we can take a good shot at righting this fiscal ship. We don’t need tax hikes. We need to reduce some spending, there’s always waste but we really don’t need from government is to put undue pressure on services at the sacrifice of the health of our own people and that can only come through regulation. Someone dare tell me I’m wrong.

#143 NSNG on 07.16.21 at 9:29 pm

If I were to have any tax (and the government would first need to prove it has earned the right to take more from us) it would be a revenue tax, not a wealth tax, and not a profit tax. Any company earning over $100k could pay a revenue tax. It would be lower than profit taxes now since more companies would fall under that umbrella. It would level the playing field. It would disincentivize accounting shenanigans to move money around and make unnecessary expenditures in order to lower net profits. So a business would be much more efficient and spend less on ‘perks’ to keep money out of government hands.

It would be a much more efficient tax because the money would not need to go through the net profit meat grinder before the government gets a look at it. So fewer government auditors would be needed.

How much did you earn? Pay x% of that.

The amount saved in accounting and legal shenanigans would probably offset the taxes that zero-tax, zero-profit companies pay now.

#144 VladTor on 07.16.21 at 9:44 pm

…It’s not income tax – which is already at the 54% level for most 1%ers in Canada.

********

This is just I would say theoretical level. Of course this is law… but in REALITY – theoretical.

With financial advisers like Mr. Garth (we all love him for his blog and his free advices!) 1%ers easy can escape this 54% rule an convert it in 5.4% rule.

So, we for sure need wealth tax to push rich share they profit with other citizens mandatory.

Let’s have a look on this.
We have inflation. With inflation capitalist increasing price for his goods/services but…. not increasing employee salary. He has profit and getting richer – his workers getting more poor b’s they have to spend more and more money from SAME salary. No rule about increasing salary accordingly inflation. Why minimum, for example, salary not increasing with inflation?

So wealth tax only way to make balance and it should be for supporting poor citizens ….. OR…. Garth you want to have revolution? Revolution always run by poorest citizens. Existing financial system producing poor.

By the way, big corporation very often don’t pay tax at all. Remember story with Besos/Amazon when he in 2014 didn’t pay any single penny as tax but has huge profit.

And what we have to do?
You know answer/solution?

Stick with things you know. Taxation ain’t one of them. – Garth

#145 leebow on 07.16.21 at 9:54 pm

#135 Joseph R.

I didn’t say that private companies were flourishing. But one could open a shoe repair business or an “artel”. In some of the republics farmers could sell produce directly to consumers after they delivered their quota to the government.

NEP (new economic policy, not plan) was abandoned by Stalin in 1928. At that point they expropriated all private capital. The last step was to extract the remaining valuables. Some authors claim that it was done by artificially creating famine and Torgsins that sold food for gold.

Taxation was a vague thing. Since prices for materials, labour and product were dictated by the state, that was the real and effective tax on everyone.

That “turnover tax” was probably just an artificial construct used to create an illusion that USSR has a very low tax rate.

#146 Doug in London on 07.16.21 at 10:17 pm

@IHCTD9, post #86:
A lot of “experts” said there would never be an NDP government in Ontario. Nobody’s said that since the election in 1990. Never say never, because never is a long, long time.

#147 mike from mtl on 07.16.21 at 10:26 pm

#58 neo on 07.16.21 at 4:24 pm

Well, that or they are achieving natural herd immunity because of 16 months of exposure and the virus is starting to behave like most do at this point in the cycle ie. spread more but are more benign. Or a combination of the two but definitely not JUST because of the vaccine.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Of course you’re right, just ‘the science’, spin, media and politicos keep the fear train alive. Remember last December’s stupidity with the UK variant?

Just pointed out how in a reasonable study the current vaccines are still sufficient and effective towards the virus. And yes there’s no reason to discredit a prior infection and natural immunity, after all vax or not it’s your immune system doing all the hard work, not synthetic Modera/Pfizer. “cases” are meaningless junk stats by a flawed ‘test’. At the peak of the Winter of 2021 we tested nearly 1%/pop per day, does that make any sense? Imagine we tested the equivalent of entire population of this country in 2018 for influenza?

Again the locations that were hard hit initially are doing okay today in terms of actual serious illness, those that were ‘heroes’ keeping the virus at bay are now paying the price.

#148 Steve French on 07.16.21 at 10:31 pm

This division of a complex and contested Canadian history into “goodies” and “baddies” is just bad historical practice.

“Manitoba government deal with more fallout from premier’s history comments”
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-manitoba-government-deal-with-more-fallout-from-premiers-history/

Shows the extremist moral absolutism of the millennial generation, and also reflects the decline of teaching history in Canadian schools.

Now Canadian Residential Schools are referred to “re-education camps.”

As someone who studies a country that actually had lots of real (socialist) re-education camps, I can assure you there is a big difference.

For one thing, countries dealing with the actual legacies of actually-existing re-education camps would never allow you to question official national historiography.

You would be imprisoned, for a long time.

Genocide, concentration camps. The European-Native encounter in Canada is now on par with the Jewish Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

It’s a false history.

What’s most troubling is that anyone who questions the extreme woke narrative is publicly shamed into forced confession.

“I want to acknowledge the words I used to respond to a question about residential schools, during my first scrum as a new minister in this very important portfolio, were wrong, and I genuinely and sincerely ask for your forgiveness.”

“Ask forgiveness” ?

For questioning an inaccurate version of history?

The totalitarian Marxist-Leninists who run China would be very proud that their practices are seeping into Western society.

This is exactly the type of forced confession that people undergo in China for questioning Communist Party rule.

I find all this very disturbing.

Canada is on the wrong track.

#149 Dr V on 07.16.21 at 10:34 pm

51 yvr2zrh – a thoughtful, reasoned comment.

#150 Sunshowers on 07.16.21 at 10:45 pm

#95 Confucius say … on 07.16.21 at 5:43 pm
Indeed, wise Confucius is correct.
The Americans did a study which showed that money does indeed buy happiness, but that happiness plateaus at $75,000 USD per person per year.

#151 Diamond Dog on 07.16.21 at 10:46 pm

#87 Toni on 07.16.21 at 5:36 pm

Did I say glucose, I meant fructose (primary cause of NAFLD). Just to add, this is the best video I’ve watched on the macro economics of the major mistake successive governments have chosen to make by allowing food manufacturers to add sugar to some 75% of the 600,000 or so food products on today’s shelves in the U.S. and Canada:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHYu8NlWDLU

Lobby pressures, market greed, corruption, disinformation, we should know how added sugars to everything became so rampant. If we don’t, all the more reason to watch the video link above. We should also know that Fed and provincial governments are running unsustainable red ink trying to prop up health care systems that are overburdened from sick folks due to unnecessary and dangerous food additives in the food supply, chief among them added sugars.

Do we need to raise taxes? Likely not. Reduce spending, absolutely! But how can we reduce spending without lowering the quality of services? Try a healthier population. It’s a no brainer really, and on this issue alone, Trudeau laid an egg.

#152 KLNR on 07.16.21 at 10:57 pm

@#137 45north on 07.16.21 at 9:10 pm
Shirl Clarts We were at a splash pad with the kids this summer when some guy walked his pit bull into the fountains to cool him down… or socialize him with the kids, maybe?
Seriously?! Yeah, get a clue, man. This place is a safe place for kids. Oh, and you could cut the tension in the air with a knife.

tooshort Did the dog eat the kids? Would you have reacted the same if it was any other mutt that we see here all the time?
Might not have been a dog friendly park which changes things but clearly the owner of the dog knew his dog could be in that environment or else he wouldn’t have brought it there…

In Ottawa, dogs are not allowed in splash pads or in or around play structures. The mothers could have called Bylaw Enforcement and the guy would have got a fine. If they took some pictures, Bylaw could hunt him down.

I’d be in favour of banning him and his dog from the park.

What is it with pitbulls often attracting vagrant owners?
9 times out of 10 the owner of such dogs is the real problem.

#153 Nonplused on 07.16.21 at 11:04 pm

#119 Dean on 07.16.21 at 7:27 pm
Nonplused, don’t forget about already wealth taxes of land transfer tax, both provincial and municipal like Ontario, Toronto land transfer tax, annual property taxes and now some places like Vancouver and Toronto soon an annual 1% or 3% empty homes tax, vacant homes tax.

What about the annual garbage tax in Toronto which is tied to your house if you don’t pay. It is an annual tax disguised for garbage service but it used to be part of your property tax now it is an extra tax. I don’t know other provinces and municipalities but I’m sure there are many other taxes on property, wealth in Canada if anyone knows of other taxes on property or wealth please post it here.

———————————-

Ya, I have from time to time tried to make a comprehensive list of all the taxes and compound taxes there are but I think it is near impossible to do off the top of one’s head. We are at peak tax, which is the point where increasing taxes no longer increases tax revenue but instead decreases economic activity, such that tax revenue remains the same or actually goes down.

But those pesky rich people ended up with large investments, often businesses they built themselves, so they have to be hated and taxed even if there is no point to it besides pure envy. It just isn’t fair! Never mind that if their businesses generate any income they pay tax on it already. Tax the principle too! Nobody should have any more wealth than anybody else!

#154 Nonplused on 07.16.21 at 11:11 pm

#143 NSNG on 07.16.21 at 9:29 pm
If I were to have any tax (and the government would first need to prove it has earned the right to take more from us) it would be a revenue tax, not a wealth tax, and not a profit tax. Any company earning over $100k could pay a revenue tax. It would be lower than profit taxes now since more companies would fall under that umbrella. It would level the playing field. It would disincentivize accounting shenanigans to move money around and make unnecessary expenditures in order to lower net profits. So a business would be much more efficient and spend less on ‘perks’ to keep money out of government hands.

It would be a much more efficient tax because the money would not need to go through the net profit meat grinder before the government gets a look at it. So fewer government auditors would be needed.

How much did you earn? Pay x% of that.

The amount saved in accounting and legal shenanigans would probably offset the taxes that zero-tax, zero-profit companies pay now.

————————————–

It’s called the GST/HST.

Folks, there aren’t really any avenues for taxation that haven’t already been implemented.

“But wait!” you’ll say, “customers pay the GST!” Well who do you think is going to pay the revenue tax? Especially in the case where the company has no profit or the revenue tax moves them into the loss column? The tax has to be passed on to the customer unless the company has a money tree in the basement. And if they do have a money tree, they should be showing a profit, which is taxed.

#155 Nonplused on 07.16.21 at 11:16 pm

#144 VladTor on 07.16.21 at 9:44 pm.

By the way, big corporation very often don’t pay tax at all. Remember story with Besos/Amazon when he in 2014 didn’t pay any single penny as tax but has huge profit.

——————————–

Incorrect. Amazon pays all kinds of taxes. Bezos does not. The reason is because Amazon has never paid a dividend, instead plowing all earnings back into the business to expand. But Amazon’s profits are taxed before the “retained earnings” can be reinvested.

Amazon and Bezos are not the same entity.

Bezos does get a salary from Amazon as well, and he does pay tax on that. But it is small compared to his capital gains so far.

One day Bezos will die, so far even billions of dollars can’t prevent that. At that time the government will get their cut of Bezos’ wealth.

#156 the Jaguar on 07.16.21 at 11:25 pm

A Wealth Tax? Seems like another attempt to divide society and punish the usual suspects . Has a bit of a ‘white privilege’ ring to it ( all those old white guys who made it the old fashioned way —they ‘earned it’..).

Except that statistics are outrunning that narrative these days. The 2016 Census in Cowtown confirmed that 33% of the population considered themselves to be ‘Visible Minorities”. That term is no longer popular and has been replaced by “Racialized”, perhaps due to statistics that support the minority is gaining ground fast on the majority. Bottom line is that hard earned success and net worth come in all colours of the rainbow these days due to entrepeneurial spirit and the attraction of immigrants who have contributed enormously to the wealth of this country and done well for themselves. Equality of opportunity. Peace, prosperity and harmony. Who can’t get behind that?

On closer examination it’s more complicated. The headlines and group think are always on the big cities where the action is, and then there are smaller cities and towns where a reasonable level of prosperity exists. And then the cottage country recreational towns where there is some seasonal prosperity, lots of retirees, and enough services to support the decision for some to stay in a quieter environment to raise a family away from the negative influences of bigger cities.

But beneath those environments across this country exist small communities where infrastructure and opportunities are bleak. Places found in little crossroads where sometime in the last 150 years they may have made some kind of widget that purposed the settlement of those people. No more. And you might ask why in those circumstances those people don’t cut loose from that loosing proposition? It’s not so easy. They have no capital to realize on to catapult to another reality. Nobody wants to buy their little shack in nowheresville. It’s in rough shape. They can’t afford to relocate. It’s like watching Deliverance with the banjos playing in the background. Yes. In Canada. It’s not all postcards of Mounties, mountains, retractable stadium roofs, and ocean vistas. Some are living at the margins. But a wealth tax won’t solve that. Bringing prosperity back to small communities is the way through.

Strolling through the retail area of my community this evening there were several ‘Help Wanted’ signs in windows. Retail establishments, hair salons, restaurants……… Where indeed is John Galt?

This smoke from the BC wildfires is as tiresome as the heat. Wonder how big the fine is for crawling over the chain link fence for a dip in one of the city swimming pools… They wouldn’t arrest a Jaguar, would they?
We’re such great swimmers……………….

#157 Nonplused on 07.16.21 at 11:37 pm

#17 Don Guillermo on 07.16.21 at 2:48 pm
#13 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 07.16.21 at 2:39 pm
Sorry Mr Turner, but we need to go in this direction. ASAP.

The environment and our society are about to crumble, otherwise.

Wealth taxes of at least 5% will be needed within a decade.

The wealthy have had way too much tax avoidance privilege for far too long. Time to pay up.

Let’s move our butts and get on it, save ourselves and the planet, folks.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cool aid? Guzzled!

——————————–

Don, the “dollar is a dollar” guy has no understanding of economics what so ever. A 5% wealth tax? Let’s take a farmer for example. Few of them earn 5% of what their farm and equipment is supposedly worth every year. What are they supposed to do? Sell the tractor?

Wealth is not money until you sell it. Unless of course it is cash, but rich people don’t have piles of cash in the basement to swim in like Scrooge McDuck.

A 5% wealth tax assumes their is either a) 5% extra revenue or income businesses are collecting that is not already being taxed, or b) that 5% of the nation’s wealth can be sold every year and converted to cash to send to the government. b) can probably be done if we sell everything to the Chinese but the idea that there is someone in Canada who can buy it all whilst simultaneously selling it to pay taxes is simply muddled thinking.

Any wealth tax that is established will be largely symbolic, as wealth is not money.

And as I’ve said here many times before but not in a while, we all pay the same effective tax rate. If you raise the taxes your dentist pays, he ups his rates. Where do you think the dentist gets the money to pay 54% on his income? He has to get it from somewhere. But it isn’t described as a 54% tax on your dental work. Instead you stand there scratching your head and cursing the dentist for charging so much. But eventually the abscess starts to hurt so much that you just pay him and thus the government.

Taxes are always levied where there is pricing power. For example they can (and do) charge a lot of tax on booze and smokes, because people are going to buy them anyway. Dentistry is kind of unavoidable so people will pay for it almost no matter what the price is, so dentists are a good place to slap that 54%. Trudeau’s carbon tax is brilliant in that most people are not going to be able to meaningfully reduce their carbon consumption and avoid it. Energy is everything to an economy, and we get most of our energy from carbon sources, and will for a long time to come.

I saw a gas sign $1.409 in Calgary today. I thought “did BC just annex us??” But nope it was Ottawa.

#158 Why Not Spend Less? on 07.16.21 at 11:41 pm

I don’t think we have a revenue shortfall problem in this country. We have a populace that wants more than they are prepared to pay for and in that regard, we are all collectively in denial.

#159 Nonplused on 07.16.21 at 11:47 pm

#29 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 3:12 pm

“Real estate and land are already taxed proportionally to value.

Portfolios can be taxed relatively painlessly. So you need to sell a fraction of some assets of your own choosing to cover a tax liability, big whoop.”

————————————

So I pay my advisor roughly 1.25% now, which I assume is split between him and the bank he works for, both of which I assume are in the top tax bracket. But we need yet more tax?

————————————-

“Business equity is more tricky. I think a good idea would be to count a fraction of business equity as income, to be taxed as income when tax time comes around.”

————————————-

So what if the business is losing money? And isn’t business income already taxed through the GST/HST, and profits through income tax?

There are no avenues of taxation that have not already been implemented. All a wealth tax is going to do is justify the construction of a new building at the CRA campus in Winnipeg.

#160 Nonplused on 07.17.21 at 12:02 am

#77 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.16.21 at 5:12 pm
@#72 Punative Ponzies
“We’re taxing haircuts. why not stock trades?
Just asking.”

+++
I risk MY after tax income on a stock investment….
Do I get a tax refund if the stock goes down?

——————————————-

Apologies to Brian, he seems to be quite a fan, but a tax on financial transactions is duplicative of the capital gains tax and thus unnecessary and a further complication of the tax code for no good reason. You can argue whether the 50% inclusion rate should be higher, but you can argue about anything.

And yes you do get a deduction against other appreciation if you sell shares at a loss.

There are no areas of taxation that have not been fully explored. All we can do now is fiddle with the rates, or massively hike something like the GST and call it a “carbon tax”.

#161 Tax Guy on 07.17.21 at 12:12 am

The more you tax something the less you get of it.

Punishing wealth will result in less of it. At least, less that the taxman can grab.

I’m going to need a bigger boat. No better way to reduce wealth and have fun doing it. Legally anyway.

#162 TurnerNation on 07.17.21 at 12:19 am

— Huh? Science is funny. Maybe they didn’t sign enough contracts.
Ah the new normal. The New System. Just stringing us along until uptake of the GLOBAL HealthPass. Google this, if you dare. And http://www.ID2020.org

.Government working with other countries to recognize Canadians with mixed doses as fully vaccinated (www.cbc.ca)

.L.A. County again requiring masks indoors starting Saturday (ktla.com)
.More Events Canceled as LA County’s Indoor Mask Mandate Is Reinstated(variety.com)

.No ‘return to normal’ expected in post-pandemic New Zealand – and locals say that’s fine (theguardian.com)

….
— Yes this current war, WW3 is for our minds. We cannot be trusted with our own health!

https://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/news/the-rockefeller-foundation-commits-13-5-million-in-funding-to-strengthen-public-health-response-efforts/
“July 15, 2021—The Rockefeller Foundation is announcing $13.5 million in new funding to strengthen Covid-19 response efforts in the U.S., Africa, India, and Latin America to counter health mis- and disinformation – confusing, inaccurate, and harmful information that spreads at an unprecedented speed and scale and threatens the health and wellbeing of communities around the world. ”


— Big Tech is a key part of the new global system. March 2020 kicked it all off. Misinformation, WrongSpeak, whatever.

.”Rumble — Biden Press Sec. calls for users banned on one social platform to be banned from ALL social platforms.
“You shouldn’t be banned from one platform and not others if you providing misinformation out there.” 7-16-2021″

.White House ‘flagging’ posts for Facebook to censor due to COVID-19 ‘misinformation (nypost.com)

#163 Playing Monoply on 07.17.21 at 2:05 am

Being rich is quite expensive.
So when they tax my wealth I will just raise the prices I charge for what I provide. Lots of bills to pay.
Just paid $250k property tax here in BC. Last year only $140k

#164 SoggyShorts on 07.17.21 at 4:24 am

#143 NSNG on 07.16.21 at 9:29 pm
If I were to have any tax (and the government would first need to prove it has earned the right to take more from us) it would be a revenue tax, not a wealth tax, and not a profit tax. Any company earning over $100k could pay a revenue tax. It would be lower than profit taxes now since more companies would fall under that umbrella. It would level the playing field. It would disincentivize accounting shenanigans to move money around and make unnecessary expenditures in order to lower net profits. So a business would be much more efficient and spend less on ‘perks’ to keep money out of government hands.

It would be a much more efficient tax because the money would not need to go through the net profit meat grinder before the government gets a look at it. So fewer government auditors would be needed.

How much did you earn? Pay x% of that.

The amount saved in accounting and legal shenanigans would probably offset the taxes that zero-tax, zero-profit companies pay now.
****************
This might be the most ridiculous idea posted, congratulations.
Why would 2 companies in totally different situations pay the same tax?
Take 2 companies each with 300K in sales as examples:
Company 1: Has 3 employees totaling $200K in expenses.
Company 2: has 4 employees totaling $250K in expenses.

Do you think both should be taxed the same amount because they had the same sales?

#165 SoggyShorts on 07.17.21 at 4:26 am

#08 VGRO and chill on 07.16.21 at 12:07 am

Spent more money, had fewer deaths.
*******************
There’s no direct link between Canada giving way too many people CERB and few deaths per capita. There are way too many other factors to draw a direct line between those 2.

#166 SoggyShorts on 07.17.21 at 4:30 am

#29 SunShowers on 07.16.21 at 3:12 pm
Real estate and land are already taxed proportionally to value.

Portfolios can be taxed relatively painlessly. So you need to sell a fraction of some assets of your own choosing to cover a tax liability, big whoop.

Business equity is more tricky. I think a good idea would be to count a fraction of business equity as income, to be taxed as income when tax time comes around.
********************
“Relatively painlessly” unless your portfolio is your pension that you worked your ass off to create.

As for business equity, there are weeks months, and even years where a company is “worth” something on paper without any profits, and an extra tax hit during those could easily make a company go under.

#167 SoggyShorts on 07.17.21 at 4:32 am

#42 truefacts on 07.16.21 at 3:50 pm
This is the root of the FIRE movement.
Why work if the govt just takes it away?
Just enjoy life and don’t bother.

******************
What? No, it’s not. I think you’ve misread the whole thing.
The idea in FIRE is to work hard and save hard so that you don’t have to later.
The government coming after the money you’ve worked so hard to squirrel away totally ruins the FIRE movement and just rewards paycheck to paycheck UBI bums.

#168 SoggyShorts on 07.17.21 at 4:37 am

#136 Expat on 07.16.21 at 8:44 pm
I’ve supported a family with my taxes for the last 33 years as a professional. I’m retiring in Asia starting in October and it’s going to be great. It’s a good time for me to leave Canada and take my investments with me; I’m not happy the direction this country is going.
*********************
Same here, we’re headed to SEA as well. I haven’t been pushed hard enough that I’ll truly cash out yet though.

Having to pay an exit tax on everything is a little rough, but there are plenty of jurisdictions with zero capital gains taxes so a big hit now could pay off with a 40-50 year-long retirement.

For simplicity and to give something back I’d always planned on keeping my Canadian residency and just pay taxes here, but I know I’ll be keeping an eye on the Governments greedy little fingers and running the numbers as will many others with mobile money.

#169 Toronto_CA on 07.17.21 at 5:36 am

Flat taxes and consumption taxes are extremely regressive, even if they sound “fair” on paper. A 30% tax on a person earning minimum wage means the difference between paying paying their rent or not; not so for a wealthy tax payer obviously.

Their proponents say you’d cut out the loop holes by implementing them that rich people work out in the existing tax codes/acts – but you can do that while maintaining a tiered rates too.

Consumption taxes like GST are hugely regressive, and the government tries to make them fair by giving poor people rebates or using reduced rates or zero-rates on basic goods that are needed to survive. However, this hugely complicated system just makes people like me rich because I know how to implement tax codes for multinationals.

#170 IHCTD9 on 07.17.21 at 8:34 am

80% of Canada’s population growth is now from immigration. The world is global with all kinds of folks moving all over the place all the time. Borders no longer contain people, wealth, or tax revenues. These trends will only continue to increase.

NDP/Lib tax the wealthy revenue schemes need to be thought out very carefully lest we find out how quickly and easily wealth can exit our borders – just like France did.

Do we want to give ambitious immigrants more reasons to bail out? Depending on which study you read, 30%+ are already out the door within 20 years, and those studies well predate the massive run up in housing values. Every one of them has dual citizenship, and life as an immigrant is already tough enough before Ottawa vacuums even more cash out of the wallets of those who broke their backs to become successful.

The USA will eventually revamp their immigration system and allow new Immigrants to get citizenship a lot more easily. At that time, we will have a big problem. Bank on it.

#171 Mr Canada on 07.17.21 at 8:38 am

#11 Dollar is a Dollar Sorry Mr Turner, but we need to go in this direction. ASAP.The environment and our society are about to crumble, otherwise.Wealth taxes of at least 5% will be needed within a decade.The wealthy have had way too much tax avoidance privilege for far too long. Time to pay up.Let’s move our butts and get on it, save ourselves and the planet, folks.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really? You really think hoovering more tax will save the planet? It has not worked before. Has the Carbon Tax saved our planet? When T2 “asked” the “rich” to pay “just a bit more” back in 2015, he said it would cover the cost of the middle class tax break, it didn’t. Remember the “health tax” that would solve hallway medicine in Ontario? No, all this does is allow our socialist political hacks to keep spending other people’s money. Here is my proposal – lets tax virtual signaling narcissists.

#172 truefacts on 07.17.21 at 9:35 am

@ #167 Soggy Shorts…

I see your point, but with FIRE, you accumulate enough and then stop accumulating because it becomes too punitive. The amount one needs to squirrel away is much less than many people think – I guess depending on your material desires…

#173 Dharma Bum on 07.17.21 at 9:42 am

That post was very disturbing. It kinda shook me up.
I mean, the guy’s wife is a VEGAN chef? Man, that is SCARY.

Next thing you know, they’ll be promoting that cultish ideological misguided virtue signalling holier-than-thou zealous preachy dogma to omnivores.

Seriously, taxing the rich is one thing, but veganism?

Are you SERIOUS?

C’mon!!!

#174 Reality is stark on 07.17.21 at 10:10 am

It never ceases to amaze me as to how stupid the average Canadian is.
You borrow $5.00 to create $1.00 of value in the economy and for the last 9 months everyone on this blog bragging about how there financial portfolios got back to even after the scourge of the pandemic.
Now the taxman wants his money and you realize that inevitably you will not be able to retire the way you wanted as the taxman will be raiding your coffers.
Property taxes will rise significantly, OAS will get clawed back, water and sewage charges will rise and carbon taxes will increase.
Municipal and Provincial fines will increase and divorce reparations will become more onerous as governments force judges to keep social costs down.
You will feel the pain.
The party is over.
And the tent city social justice warriors who resort to stealing don’t expect to be prosecuted. Get used to it.
In future they won’t be prosecuted. The rule of law is weakening in Canada.
Pandemics have a cost folks. Anyone who thought it was party time due to quantitative easing was an idiot.

#175 Sail Away on 07.17.21 at 10:57 am

#173 Dharma Bum on 07.17.21 at 9:42 am

That post was very disturbing. It kinda shook me up.
I mean, the guy’s wife is a VEGAN chef? Man, that is SCARY.

Seriously, taxing the rich is one thing, but veganism?

——–

Maybe she’s a chipmunk?

And there’s nothing wrong with that. They should probably avoid getting a pet cat.

#176 Sail Away on 07.17.21 at 11:14 am

I find it baffling when people give ‘solutions’ that involve gov’t taking more of their own or their neighbour’s hard-earned income when the issue is, and always has been, spending.

A bit of American mistrust of government would be helpful.

#177 Goldenboy on 07.17.21 at 12:34 pm

And there you have it. Garth has repeatedly said the TFSA won’t be taxed. Of course it will. Either through a wealth tax or a withdrawal “fee”

#178 George S on 07.17.21 at 4:52 pm

A bigger GST would make a lot of sense, something like the VAT that European countries have and seem to like. Probably upping it to 20% would be a good start and if people don’t start a civil war then increase it to 25%. It helps if it is hidden in the price like it is in Europe. If you buy stuff in Greece you don’t even notice the 27% VAT because it is not added at the checkout. I think Norway has a 25% VAT. Germany has 19% (or at least it was last time I checked)
In a lot of ways a consumption tax is the fairest type of taxation. Plus as long as you have a system of consumption tax set up already it is simple to increase it. Setting up a new wealth tax system will be very costly and prone to silliness, much like the Phoenix Pay System that still hasn’t been straightened out successfully. How will a “wealth” tax deal with capitol losses and venture capitol. I realize that the mantra of the NDP has been “make the rich pay” right from the very beginning when they were the CCF but it is time to get with the times and realize that there aren’t very many rich people living in Canada any more.

If you are going to tax “wealth” where do you draw the line. If you are saving for retirement as recommended by many people, by the time you are 55 or 60 years old you will have a huge amount of accumulated assets, very similar to a “wealthy” person. Should the country have people paying some percentage of their retirement savings as a tax every year? If not, why not? They are assets just the same as a “wealthy” senior has that owns a $2.5M house in downtown Vancouver that has seen a capitol gain of $2M over the last 18 years. Or someone with a DB pension plan that has an actuarial value of $2.6M?

#179 Graphics Girl on 07.17.21 at 5:32 pm

Sadly he’s my MP. I emailed him to oppose the Vacancy tax based on numbers and logic. He politely disagreed and held firm it wasn’t a tax grab. And now we’re wasting 5.6 million on renaming a street. America is looking good.