A pox on them

A year ago 60% of BCers said heaping more taxes on real estate would make it less expensive, proving many people will believe anything if told it often enough. This year that number is down to 42%. House detached house prices in YVR, meanwhile, have hit $1.8 million, up 23% since last May. As we told you yesterday, Kelowna’s average is now a million. And try finding anything under $1.5 million in Victoria.

BC is interesting and federal Tory leader Erin O’Toole should go there more. If so it might save him the kind of embarrassment experienced on Tuesday.

 On the left coast they have an astonishing 20% surtax on real estate if you’re not a citizen. It’s been in place for a few years and used to be 15%. Plus there’s another annual ownership tax on owners who don’t primarily pay BC income tax – so it sweeps up folks from Alberta with cabins or Upper Canadians with a vacay condo. There’s an additional tax equal to 3% of a property’s value – every year – on places considered under-utilized. New property tax increases are afoot for higher-values houses, plus elevated transfer taxes.

Since the NDP took the reins in that province, real estate has been taxed, Hoovered, whacked and sucked even more every few months. The government has told people that others – from across the ocean or over the mountains – are to blame for the fact young people cannot afford homes. So they tax more.

It hasn’t worked. The penny is dropping. A new poll shows 59% of people aren’t sure any of this has been effective. The proof is in the sales and prices data of every real estate board across BC. Ditto in Ontario, where average prices have topped $1 million anywhere with decent cell reception and running water. There’s an anti-foreigner tax there, too. Also ineffective. Prices keep rising because (a) mortgage rates are ridiculous, (b) helo parents are financing down payments and pushing values up, (c) one in five households owns a secondary property, usually for speculation, (d) WFH, the pandemic and FOMO have goosed demand, (e) capital gains on houses are tax-free, (f) listings are scant since sellers fear becoming buyers and (g) politicians have fed demand with buyer incentives like free RRSP withdrawals and a shared-equity mortgage.

So what policy does O’Toole unveil in Ottawa this week?

Yup, a tax on foreigners. Actually a ban on them. Seriously.

Meanwhile Covid crashed immigration by two-thirds and existing anti-foreigner taxes have reduced non-Canadian ownership to ant-like levels. Remember the CMHC Condo Survey published here a few days ago? Apartments owned for rental income are the most prevalent form of offshore buyer investment in Canada. And according to the federal housing agency, these are the four markets with the greatest concentration:

  • Toronto – 2.6%
  • Montreal – 1.8%
  • Vancouver – 1.3%
  • Halifax – 1.3%.

Yes, that’s the best the Tories could come up with. No mention of central bank rate suppression through bond-buying. No talk of increasing down payment requirements to reduce leverage and dampen demand. An outright rejection of changing the capital gains exemption for residential real estate. Oh, and O’Toole wants Canada to bring back 40-year amortizations – which lower monthly payments (by jacking up the interest owners pay) therefore increasing demand, and fueling price gains.

Meanwhile the NDP likes the foreign buyer ban and the Libs are about to enact a 1% annual levy on all real estate in Canada owned by a non-citizen (including the properties of permanent residents who immigrated here) if it is ‘under-utilized.’ More tax. More overhead on real estate. No action on the systemic causes of the current bubble.

Our leaders have lost their way.

In fairness, the slimy little pathogen caused a global pop in property prices. Fears of infection caused a rush for personal space while wide-scale WFH and govy-support programs pushed real estate lust into the suburbs and beyond. But nowhere in the world has this been as acute as here – where household and mortgage debt now exceeds the size of the entire economy and 85% of people do not earn enough to qualify to buy or carry the average home.

Americans complain of crazy prices too. But according to Zillow, the average US resale home value is $239,000 US (that’s about $288,000 in C$). In contrast CREA pegs the average Canadian property at $696,000 in April, up 42% year/year. Say, have you ever checked out what $1.7 million (the average of a SFD in Toronto) will buy in Chicago or Houston?

Here ya go. Now write your MP.

About the picture: “Love the blog and your voice of reason,” writes blog dog Richard in Sherwood Park, AB. “It is amazing how reading it makes my day and confirms my opinions on this crazy world. Kudos. This is Ruby, our 1 year old Whoodle (Wheaton/Poodle). Her poodle pedigree has her extremely interested in hunting down ducks. She thinks she is a lap dog but is most definitely too big, however, we oblige her anyway.”

155 comments ↓

#1 None on 06.09.21 at 12:42 pm

There is no policy solution. The goal is to reduce the cost of housing. What you are asking the government to do is destroy equity of home buyers and likely destroy the financial future of anyone that has bought in the last 5 years.

How could any government policy do that?

One of the common suggestions is to ‘build more supply’. How much will these new houses cost? Will they be 3x average income as is the historical norm? If they do that then that will bring the price of all other houses down, hence the same outcome of destroying a large amount of home equity (even if it is just paper – most people consider it real).

The government has lost all control over this and honestly I can’t think of a politically viable solution to this at this point. The only thing that will solve this is a very painful crash.

Currently, Canadian’s are basically working for banks. We are all dumping obscene amounts of money into mortgages (either directly or via rent) that goes to banks rather than money seeking out growth and opportunity in our economy. We’re screwed at this point.

The only solution is large increases in interest rates of which politicians will fight against to support the housing market. 40 year amortizations…. that will be a supported program once interest rates hit 4%. Just wait.

So this all sucks. I don’t want to pay the obscene rent that I do but I have little choice. I’d rather spend my money at the local mom/pop bbq restaurant down the street.

TL;DR: we’re stuck

#2 Millennial 1%er on 06.09.21 at 12:48 pm

Red or blue, no housing for you!

#3 Joe on 06.09.21 at 12:52 pm

A year ago 60% of BCers said heaping more taxes on real estate would make it less expensive, proving many people will believe anything if told it often enough.

Can you qualify this a bit? You’ve said many times that you can’t reduce real estate prices through taxation, but it seems kind of intuitive to me:

* Identify some group of people who buy houses
* Slap a tax on them
* The increased price makes houses less attractive for the group, so some percentage decide to park their money elsewhere
* This decreases demand, which leads to lower prices

Where do I go wrong? Is your view that taxation in general can *never* work, or is it just that the current batch of proposed and implemented taxes are ineffective? (Because they target tiny microsegments of the market or target the wrong things, like mountain vacation homes where no one wants to live year round anyway.)

You are wrong because it did not work. The myth of the foreign buyer setting prices led everyone astray. Current market conditions prove it. – Garth

#4 Waitabit on 06.09.21 at 12:53 pm

Lower mainland homes were off pre pandemic. Let’s not forget that.

We sold out in North Van in 2017 and the home resold twice for much less. I suspect the same home could have been got in 2019 for about 25% less than we sold and that the same home still wouldn’t sell what we sold it for.

Perhaps the new regs did work pre pandemic.

The pandemic clearly put things back in the air for all the reasons you have said. Will we see a quick trim of that 25%. I suspect we will as we all calm down to a mild panic and return to normalcy.

That said, 25% gain on our SFD is much appreciated. Thank you Trudeau for all your expertise.

#5 some guy on 06.09.21 at 12:56 pm

It’s hard to be optimistic about the future of Canada when culturally all we seem to care or talk about is the housing market. I think collectively we have lost our minds.

#6 Dolce Vita on 06.09.21 at 12:59 pm

Treat any home, apartment, as an asset.

If you take money out of it by selling it, HELOC, refinancing, whatever, that money is taxed as a:

Capital Gain.

Whether owned privately or by a business, corp. whatever same rule applies to all. Including principal residences.

Dump all the failed Gov taxes, 1st time buyers tax, other such incentives. Let the market decide the true value of a home.

#7 Woke up this morning... on 06.09.21 at 1:01 pm

Cut the grass.
Trim the bushes.
Sweep the driveway.
Clean the gutters.
Clean the patio furniture.
Plant the flowers.
Water, water, water!

Did you spend your entire short Canadian summer doing these things?

…and just so I could come over and enjoy it a few times? How kind of you homeowners.

My hobby is to come over and to throw suggestions at the wife of what landscaping or random ideas would look really good. Especially if I don’t wish to be invited back by the subservient husbands paying the mortgage and living in the dungeon called man-cave in the radon filled basements.

#8 Fragrant Cookie on 06.09.21 at 1:05 pm

Sounds like the government is only taxing the part of population that don’t have voting rights or whose collective voting power is so small it barely makes a dent. Scapegoating foreign buyers never worked on improving affordability, but at least it bought them votes the first time round. This time, in addition to being a useless policy, it also serves as an insult to the intelligence of Canadians all across the country.

#9 DLT INC on 06.09.21 at 1:06 pm

Just finished Sam Coopers book Wilful Blindness and recommend that every Canadian and especially BCers read it. If what he writes has any truth at all, it appears that Canadians have not been well served by their elected representatives. That’s a gross understatement. In fact, many of them should be charged for facilitating money laundering through their irresponsible mismanagement of the gaming industry and immigration policies which have permitted wealthy thugs into Canada. As well, despite what is stated on this blog, it doesn’t take a genius to compare the price of housing in Toronto and Especially Vancouver to some other major cities in Canada to realize, after reading Cooper’s book that offshore and illegal drug money has had a significant affect on house prices.
So read Sam Cooper’s book, it’s a real eye opener. I figure that one can’t go wrong by following the money. Do that and I think you can clearly see that many people have died on the streets as government officials have turned a blind eye to all the drug money laundered through government regulated gambling establishments so elected political parties can brag that they have lowered taxes since they get funds to finance education, health care etc by taking a cut of the profits from illegal activities. Canadians should ask themselves, as they bury their loved ones from drug over doses, whether it has been worth it.

#10 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:07 pm

You are wrong because it did not work. The myth of the foreign buyer setting prices led everyone astray. Current market conditions prove it. – Garth

Thanks for your reply, but this doesn’t really answer my question. Let’s take for granted that the current taxes are ineffective. Does that mean that no tax could be? What about a large speculation tax that actually targeted speculators? What about an empty bedrooms tax that targeted people whose principal residences have two or more spare rooms?

#11 [email protected] on 06.09.21 at 1:11 pm

Ottawa approves 1% on empty homes
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/city-council-approves-one-per-cent-tax-on-vacant-homes-in-ottawa-1.5462768

#12 Prince Polo on 06.09.21 at 1:11 pm

Why stop at 40yr amortizations? Why not go for 80yr (hand down to your child) and 120yr (hand down to your grandchild) legacies?

Doofuses!‍♂️

#13 Bdwy on 06.09.21 at 1:12 pm

#126 DON on 06.09.21 at 11:01 am

#122 VladTor on 06.09.21 at 9:13 am
#116 CaribooCharlie

I’m not sure that situation in this schools was so dramatically like you described it. Of course single cases was. Sure it wasn’t total practice.

If I understand you would prefer that kids stayed uneducated and in forests only b’s uneducated parents didn’t want to send them to school.

It wasn’t kidnapping! Or, OK – it was kidnapping with goal to gave children education and than return them back to forests, if they want to do it.

After school they have a freedom – return to forests or stayed in civilization.

What they did? How do you think?

*************************
….The last residential school in BC shut down in the 1990s.

————
Voluntary kidnapping for 50 years?

Why did thousands and thousands of FN parents WANT to send their kids to school? Maybe for an education? For 50 years at that.
This is very taboo to mention but a valid question.

“Compulsory attendance ended in 1948, following the 1947 report of a special joint committee and subsequent amendment of the Indian Act.[40]” -wiki

Anyone younger than 80 years old who attended did it by their parent’s choice.

#14 TurnerNation on 06.09.21 at 1:20 pm

TLT.US Long Bond ETF broke out of a base?

— The future of rolling Economic Lockdowns in the Former First World Countries.
Don’t take my word for it. Germany.
(Wait for Covid-21, -23 + variants . You will be looking at almost monthly injections)

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Vierte-Welle-Das-ist-keine-Angstmache-article22607222.html
When it comes to Corona, Germany is on the right track. The incidence decreases, vaccination goes ahead. But in the eyes of the chairman of the World Medical Association Montgomery, this poses a danger: people could become careless when it comes to vaccination – and would then receive the receipt for it in the autumn.

What would be the consequences in the second half of the year if we did not arrive at a vaccination rate of 80%, which you have just mentioned?
Then we will have to reintroduce lockdown measures. There is already a little bit of talk in the background about the impending fourth wave in autumn.

——————–

Anyone read this book? Why the WEED stores are on every corner now.

“There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution”
– Aldous Huxley

#15 Validation on 06.09.21 at 1:21 pm

#7 Woke up this morning… on 06.09.21 at 1:01 pm

Cut the grass.
Trim the bushes.
Sweep the driveway.
Clean the gutters.
Clean the patio furniture.
Plant the flowers.
Water, water, water!

Funny you should ask. I did do all those and more.

Whereas I did them all myself, you probably paid some horrendous amount for others to do it (even if tucked into your rent). That, or you live with long grass, untrimmed bushes, an unswept drive, clogged gutters, dirty patio furniture, no flowers and nothing to nurture. Lol.

Pick your poison.

#16 Billy Buoy on 06.09.21 at 1:22 pm

No rate hike today, Fed shows big inflation numbers tomm, Repo out of control =

NO RATE HIKES IN FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

BUY AWAY.

No rate hike was expected today, nor is one anticipated until early in 2022. Then be careful. – Garth

#17 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:24 pm

#1 None on 06.09.21 at 12:42 pm

The government has lost all control over this and honestly I can’t think of a politically viable solution to this at this point. The only thing that will solve this is a very painful crash.

I think the “solution” governments would prefer is holding prices steady until incomes catch up. This way, they devalue homes slowly enough that home owners don’t notice and get upset. And if this shuts generations out of home ownership? They don’t really care unless it moves votes.

#18 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 1:27 pm

Beautiful house, and according to the value estimates on the webpage it’s actually overpriced! Should be about 1.5 Mil. There’s a 40k annual property tax bill on that one too, which is bonkers. Sq.-ft. Cost is 323.00 – Houston might as well be on another planet.

Or, maybe we’re the ones living in outer space…

#19 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 1:31 pm

#16 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:24 pm

I think the “solution” governments would prefer is holding prices steady until incomes catch up.
——-

Maybe if the average life expectancy in Canada was fifteen hundred years, but no way will incomes move that much, that fast.

#20 Quintilian on 06.09.21 at 1:35 pm

Of course, increasing taxes increases prices:

higher taxes are higher input costs.

The politicians know it. But the optics are appealing.

Politicians are happy because of the appearance that they are doing something about it.

It also helps government coffers making them look like prudent money managers.

Existing home owners, cry crocodile tears for the next generation, as they watch the prices skyrocket.

Criminals love the increased efficiency at which the higher prices allow for money laundering.

And so the runaway train gains more and more speed, and some still predict a soft landing.

#21 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:36 pm

If governments really want to fix the housing market, they could start by taking the “right to housing” seriously. Top of my list would be passing laws that guarantee “security of tenure.” Laws like Ontario’s personal use and renovation exemptions are forms of forced eviction and thus flagrant violations of human rights. I suspect a lot more people would consider renting houses if they knew that they couldn’t be evicted at the landlord’s whim.

And what fool would want to be a landlord? – Garth

#22 Faron on 06.09.21 at 1:38 pm

#138 Faron on 06.09.21 at 12:19 pm
#132 Ronaldo on 06.09.21 at 11:34 am
#128 DON on 06.09.21 at 11:06 am
#122 VladTor on 06.09.21 at 9:13 am
#116 CaribooCharlie

This will be my last comment here for a while. Garth, I hope you can find the patience to publish it.

(1) children were removed against their family’s will.
(2) conditions in the schools were horrible
(3) excess disease doesn’t excuse the deaths
(4) 215 of about 265 deaths were apparently undocumented
(5) The bodies were placed in graves that were only found through advanced technology. Unmarked unless the markings were removed which is also inexcusable.

(1) through (3) are generalized and therefore conjecture. (4) is unknown since records have not been released. (5) Did the TRC not note the existence of such cemeteries? Maybe we should all shut up until facts are available. Or we can just trash a statue if that’s too much to ask. – Garth

My rebuttal is an article by Tristin Hopper from everyone’s fave “woke” media outlet, The National Post. Take a read and then have a look at items 1 through 5.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/i-learned-how-to-hate-what-it-was-like-to-attend-kamloops-indian-residential-school

It’s been real!

#23 Wait There on 06.09.21 at 1:39 pm

Yet, out GDP keeps growing and more people want to live here. So what’s the problem?

Just like budgets eventually balance themselves, so will the housing market. Did you not get that?

#24 Rishu on 06.09.21 at 1:39 pm

Let’s be honest, it would be political suicide for any political party to do the responsible thing and allow home equity to fall. All we can do is ride this gasbag party out till it comes to some inevitable conclusion.

Protect yourself accordingly.

PS: To think I’ve been coming here for over 9 years starting in my early 20s. I remember calling Turner investments ready with my life saving of $5000 to invest at 26. Person on the phone said it was not enough. I’m happy to share that I am now 35 and just broke 1/2 a mil yesterday. Squirrelled away any savings into 100% equity S&P 500 and forget, baby!

Yes, let’s be honest. You came to a free lecture I gave in 2012. My staff later emailed you after you asked, via an audience response card, to be contacted. That was on October 24th. You never replied. – Garth

#25 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:41 pm

#19 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 1:31 pm

Maybe if the average life expectancy in Canada was fifteen hundred years, but no way will incomes move that much, that fast.

Of course not. That’s why I put “solution” in scare quotes. I don’t think politicians have any interest in solving the present crisis. Running this country long ago ceased to be about good governance. These days, it’s all about managing poll numbers.

#26 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 1:49 pm

#13 Bdwy on 06.09.21 at 1:12 pm

…This is very taboo to mention but a valid question.

“Compulsory attendance ended in 1948, following the 1947 report of a special joint committee and subsequent amendment of the Indian Act.[40]” -wiki

Anyone younger than 80 years old who attended did it by their parent’s choice.
——-

True, but they likely weren’t privy to some of the stuff that was going on / had gone on in some of those schools.

This whole RS mess will never be rectified because it’s a historical event. Even if there is some govy settlement involving billions, it will keep coming back again and again.

I’ll be watching the lawsuit progress closely. Depending on how things turn out – the German Navy owes me big time.

#27 Sara on 06.09.21 at 1:53 pm

#1 None “What you are asking the government to do is destroy equity of home buyers and likely destroy the financial future of anyone that has bought in the last 5 years.”

Baloney. A couple of years of lost home equity is no biggie for anyone who bought earlier than a couple of years ago. Certainly not enough of a reason to justify pricing out forever many younger people and others who have been renting for the last five+ years.

#28 cuke and tomato picker on 06.09.21 at 1:55 pm

Nice to know that our house in Victoria BC is worth 1.5 mil the charmed life just gets better. It pays to paint the fence and the house every year all the other work to keep it looking great is easy work. The bonus for us is the
people in our bare land strata are awesome.

#29 alexinvestor on 06.09.21 at 1:55 pm

I thought that going after the central banker was generally off-limits for parties. So if you can’t go after the central banker who is supposedly independent and suppressing rates that is causing the majority of the problem, what really is there left to do ?

To be fair, I understand why one can’t go after the central banker (unless you’re in the US, because of it’s specialness). That is the easiest way to scare off investors.

#30 Rishu on 06.09.21 at 1:56 pm

Yes, let’s be honest. You came to a free lecture I gave in 2012. My staff later emailed you after you asked, via an audience response card, to be contacted. That was on October 24th. You never replied. – Garth

It was great seeing you there, definitely learned a lot! I didn’t have much money at the time still, didn’t think it would had changed anything. But nonetheless, I continue to be grateful to you daily for opening my eyes and increasing my financial literacy. May you continue to educate the masses one blog post at a time. :D

#31 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:57 pm

And what fool would want to be a landlord? – Garth

Who indeed? Perhaps people that genuinely wanted to help their fellow human beings instead of exploit them for profit. Perhaps individual landlords would disappear and rentals would be solely the purview of government and big corporations. No matter. It’s just a pipe dream anyway.

Stated-owned rental units? What a dream, comrade. – Garth

#32 Sara on 06.09.21 at 1:57 pm

#24 Rishu on 06.09.21 at 1:39 pm
“Let’s be honest, it would be political suicide for any political party to do the responsible thing and allow home equity to fall.”

More baloney. It would be political suicide not to do something about it. Many homeowners are not happy with the state of the Canadian housing market, for example, parents who are not able (or willing) to gift their children with a down payment but would like to see them launch.

#33 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 1:57 pm

#25 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:41 pm
#19 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 1:31 pm

Maybe if the average life expectancy in Canada was fifteen hundred years, but no way will incomes move that much, that fast.

Of course not. That’s why I put “solution” in scare quotes. I don’t think politicians have any interest in solving the present crisis. Running this country long ago ceased to be about good governance. These days, it’s all about managing poll numbers.
—— –

Well, I definitely can’t disagree with that.

I feel like an aging neandercon like myself has no one to vote for. The only thing Mr. Tool promises that I actually like is defunding the useless CBC. He wants to double down on Trudeau’s CCB too.

What a joke. At least Trudeau is making me rich…

#34 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 2:06 pm

#30 Rishu on 06.09.21 at 1:56 pm
Yes, let’s be honest. You came to a free lecture I gave in 2012. My staff later emailed you after you asked, via an audience response card, to be contacted. That was on October 24th. You never replied. – Garth

It was great seeing you there, definitely learned a lot! I didn’t have much money at the time still, didn’t think it would had changed anything. But nonetheless, I continue to be grateful to you daily for opening my eyes and increasing my financial literacy. May you continue to educate the masses one blog post at a time. :D
—- —

LoL! Dude, you just got front-kicked into the harbour, and now you’re kissing ass?

#35 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 2:09 pm

#15 Validation on 06.09.21 at 1:21 pm
#7 Woke up this morning… on 06.09.21 at 1:01 pm

Cut the grass.
Trim the bushes.
Sweep the driveway.
Clean the gutters.
Clean the patio furniture.
Plant the flowers.
Water, water, water!

——–

Funny you should ask. I did do all those and more.

Whereas I did them all myself, you probably paid some horrendous amount for others to do it (even if tucked into your rent). That, or you live with long grass, untrimmed bushes, an unswept drive, clogged gutters, dirty patio furniture, no flowers and nothing to nurture. Lol.

Pick your poison.

——–

Likewise. My wife and I enjoy maintenance around the house. It’s satisfying and the outdoor work is especially pleasant on a nice day- sort of an unstructured date amongst flowers, sunshine, bees, birds and good lunch in paradise. And we can do anything we want: Zipline for the kids? Sure. Treehouse? Yep. Outdoor grill and bar with keg mount? Uh huh. Plant a dozen protected Garry Oaks in the gigantic road right of way because the City will never be allowed to remove them? Of course, and after 11 years, it’s now an expansive sun-dappled bonus yard.

It actually feels like living for free since our only real non-discretionary cost is property tax and we bank the majority of take-home. Still waiting for the call about the free Liberal heat pump gift.

#36 Joe on 06.09.21 at 2:13 pm

Stated-owned rental units? What a dream, comrade. – Garth

lol. Honestly Garth, sometimes you’re just the worst. :) To be clear, the dream is laws enforcing our human rights. (The right to housing in this particular case.)

#37 Bdwy on 06.09.21 at 2:14 pm

#24 maybe both versions are true? He could have called as well as filled out a card. After a rejection on the phone not responding to an email seems logical. But wow on the record keeping!

Also way back when, our tugboating blog host did a free talk in Vancouver. I got there just a minute before it was scheduled. The room was packed, standing room only. I grab a water at the back where nobody is (i dislike crowds) and out of nowhere Garth himself is standing right next to me. The best dumb joke i come up with is to mention to him that whoever is giving the talk must be quite popular as the crowd was huge!

#38 Matthew Landry on 06.09.21 at 2:16 pm

Can’t compare US properties to CDN ones without considering property taxes. Prop tax on the Chicago home is 40k per year. So the carrying cost on that place would be equivalent to a place worth 2.5MM here.

Still, lots more value in the US but I see these places posted and not sure folks realize we pay a fraction of the property tax.

#39 dave on 06.09.21 at 2:18 pm

El Salvador is the first Country to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender. Many more to follow – Bitcoin is real – get ready.

If you want to beat inflation, invest in Bitcoin!!!

https://globalnews.ca/news/7933582/el-salvador-bitcoin/

#40 Bdwy on 06.09.21 at 2:19 pm

28 cuke and tomato picker on 06.09.21 at 1:55 pm

Nice to know that our house in Victoria BC is worth 1.5 mil the charmed life just gets better. It pays to paint the fence and the house every year all the other work to keep it looking great is easy work. The bonus for us is the
people in our bare land strata are awesome

‐———
Even better is freehold, paint nothing, let it all rot into mush, and make even bigger gains on the dirt.

#41 Former BCer on 06.09.21 at 2:23 pm

BC is suffering from a housing and rental shortage due to 20 years of over-immigration and 20 years of under-building.

There needs to be 500,000 new houses/condos/apartments/cabins built every year for the next decade to begin to catch up. But this won’t happen because land in BC is scarce. It’s either Crown Land, Native Reserve, owned by forest companies, off-grid, too mountainous, too secluded, no infrastructure…
So what happens is all the development is in the existing cities and towns, and it takes time(years) to build anything from the ground up.
Then you add a couple hundred thousand new people every year all scrambling for the good life and a place to live.
The 20% surtax on foreign buyers is a good start, up it to 50% and see what the effect is. If need be, up it to 100%.
And yes of course the Bank of Canada needs to up interest rates by 1/2 % immediately, then again 1/2 % in six months.
But so long as the Federal Liberals are printing money to infinity, the price of real estate across Canada will follow suit.

#42 Tom on 06.09.21 at 2:24 pm

“You are wrong because it did not work. The myth of the foreign buyer setting prices led everyone astray. Current market conditions prove it. – Garth”

You are so wrong. International agencies have been warning about speculation in Canada’s housing market for years. Salaries or trading up condo’s don’t account for majority of homes in Vancouver being worth over 3 million.

#43 NSNG on 06.09.21 at 2:25 pm

#MeToole

#44 supplyunlimited on 06.09.21 at 2:29 pm

When the central bank says “we will print money to no end to ensure the economy stays afloat” what about a government that says “we will build unlimited low cost housing, using government funds – to do whatever it takes – to bring down prices and make homes affordable” . How would that work out? We can see where the priorities are . . but if the government would get in the supply business – to absolutely force onto the market – significant high quality housing . . until supply is not even remotely a problem – then prices would fall.

#45 willworkforpickles on 06.09.21 at 2:31 pm

Get your US properties while interest rates are low. They won’t remain in this state too much longer with all the new debt creation spiking the debt to GDP ratio into debt death spiral territory.
Expect historically normalized interest rates before negative rates come about.
As foreign holders of US debt become increasingly worried they are being drawn into a building now unstoppable US debt death spiral, interest rates will have to increase to historical norms for a time to keep selling debt to them to keep printing.
The next move beyond this will be the removal of cash putting all at the mercy of automatic government bail-ins.
Those will take and take and take from each and every person digitally to pay the freight to foreign holders of national debt in place of high rates into the not too distant future debt spiral maelstrom.

#46 NSNG on 06.09.21 at 2:31 pm

Higher interest rates not only make it more difficult to borrow but they also create investment options outside of real estate.

How many times have we heard people come on this board and ignore Garth’s advice and talk about their fabulous, ‘safe’ GICs of 3% (completely ignoring losses after inflation of course)? Imagine how many that would be if GICs were pushing 7%?

Banks won’t do it because government borrowing costs go up and with it goes the vote buying.

#47 Robl on 06.09.21 at 2:33 pm

Checkout the property taxes. Over $39k.

#48 AO1 on 06.09.21 at 2:37 pm

Governments need to learn, stop manipulating the market. Protect consumers sure, but stop with special programs, incentives, taxes to appease a particular voting base. I guess that’s what you get for electing rookies every four years.

#49 Doug in London on 06.09.21 at 2:37 pm

There are effective ways to bring housing costs under control, but no one in government has the spine to use them. It would include a REAL stress test and not the wimpy one brought in recently, make blind bidding illegal with steep fines for non compliance, and the requirement for a bigger down payment. A reduction of maximum allowable amortization period would help also. It’s that simple.

#50 Triplenet on 06.09.21 at 2:38 pm

Houston, Texas
Property taxes: $40,000
HOA fees: $5,000
Flood insurance: ?
Security costs: ?
Alligator neighbour’s ?

Envy? – Garth

#51 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 2:38 pm

Here Faron, this seems an appropriate response to your last comment.

From Kurt Vonnegut’s ‘Slaughterhouse Five’, Billy Pilgrim expounds to the Tralfamadorians:

“If other planets aren’t now in danger from Earth, they soon will be. So tell me the secret so I can take it back to Earth and save us all: How can a planet live at peace?”

Billy felt that he had spoken soaringly. He was baffled when he saw the Tralfamadorians close their little hands on their eyes. He knew from past experience what this meant: He was being stupid.’

#52 T-Rev on 06.09.21 at 2:40 pm

Nice place, that house in Houston. Better be making some money though, because the property taxes are $40k per year. Insurance looks like it adds another $17k/yr.

Interesting comparison, certainly highlights the difference in the two countries.

Ten years of property taxes equals $400,000 which is tax-deductible. Add that to the purchase prices and it’s still a deal vs Canada. – Garth

#53 AGuyInVancouver on 06.09.21 at 2:41 pm

You are wrong because it did not work. The myth of the foreign buyer setting prices led everyone astray. Current market conditions prove it. – Garth
_ _ _
Hooey. Current market conditions are a result of the Bank of Canada losing their minds and hysterically overreacting to Covid. Their actions work against the province’s taxes. Look back to 2019 and BC prices were largely stagnant, which was exactly what was needed to bring prices back in line with incomes.

#54 Doug t on 06.09.21 at 2:47 pm

Our government has alot to answer for – they are willfully allowing for Canadians to destroy their futures by participating in this housing charade

#55 Joey Mac on 06.09.21 at 2:55 pm

I suspect the politicians know all that, but are catering to fears and suspicions of individuals, and putting forward what they think will get votes, not what is right for the country.

I suspect a politician who came out and said, “Foreign owner taxes don’t work, capital gains on principal residences are fair, down payments and interest must go up” would lose an election in a spectacular way, even though she would be completely correct.

#56 Jebus it's hot out there! on 06.09.21 at 2:55 pm

2.6% (which I believe to be an understatement) increase in listings of overseas investor properties would be appreciated in this market. Let’s have actual homes to live in, not investment holdings.

I would someday like to read about your breakdown of foreign money laundering in the housing market. I feel that this topic is never touched on here and I can’t figure out why. It certainly is a THING, more than we would like to admit. Let’s have at it and peel this onion. Have a look at Sam Cooper’s recent publishing to get a feel for what we have going on here. Foreign money IS a plague one way or another (notice I didn’t say foreigners). I would love to celebrate a Canada day of our great country when this illegal activity is removed.

People believe what they want to be true. And Canadians just love feeling they are victims. – Garth

#57 KLNR on 06.09.21 at 3:07 pm

@#35 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 2:09 pm
#15 Validation on 06.09.21 at 1:21 pm
#7 Woke up this morning… on 06.09.21 at 1:01 pm

Cut the grass.
Trim the bushes.
Sweep the driveway.
Clean the gutters.
Clean the patio furniture.
Plant the flowers.
Water, water, water!

——–

Funny you should ask. I did do all those and more.

Whereas I did them all myself, you probably paid some horrendous amount for others to do it (even if tucked into your rent). That, or you live with long grass, untrimmed bushes, an unswept drive, clogged gutters, dirty patio furniture, no flowers and nothing to nurture. Lol.

Pick your poison.

——–

Likewise. My wife and I enjoy maintenance around the house. It’s satisfying and the outdoor work is especially pleasant on a nice day- sort of an unstructured date amongst flowers, sunshine, bees, birds and good lunch in paradise. And we can do anything we want: Zipline for the kids? Sure. Treehouse? Yep. Outdoor grill and bar with keg mount? Uh huh. Plant a dozen protected Garry Oaks in the gigantic road right of way because the City will never be allowed to remove them? Of course, and after 11 years, it’s now an expansive sun-dappled bonus yard.

It actually feels like living for free since our only real non-discretionary cost is property tax and we bank the majority of take-home. Still waiting for the call about the free Liberal heat pump gift.

same here. love puddering around taking care of the property. and because of WFH i just integrate it into my day – great meditation.

#58 wallflower on 06.09.21 at 3:25 pm

Glory to Ruby!
Something the dawgs know but … the humans are coming into this knowledge through their opaque, torpid, pandemic path:
The dawgs own us and we are their servants.

#59 TWRMJ on 06.09.21 at 3:27 pm

All those letters listing the causes and still, the main cause is left out.

“Meanwhile Covid crashed immigration by two-thirds”

It was extremely high, and it “crashed” for just one year. It is impossible for the prices relative to incomes to do what they have done without the single, obvious fact of massive yearly influx of people, since people are the demand for homes (and certainly “good” ones).

#60 Habitt on 06.09.21 at 3:30 pm

So wfh is listed as d along with a few others. Clearly not much impact from it. Eh

#61 R on 06.09.21 at 3:31 pm

I don’t know what to think about the Residential School situation. I don’t know what percent of the children bodies found was to the number of children that were educated by the school over the lifetime the school was operating. I don’t know if this percentage was inline with a “normal” children death rate. No one knows what the death rate would have been for the children if they did not attend the school at all, perhaps the schools were a relative oasis of safety for the children , we don’t know. I come back to a question I have voiced before, Why is there a reservation system at all ?. Why the Canadian Apartheid ? Why not abandon this segregation, make equitable allowances through tax, home ownership, education etc, and end it? It cannot be good for anyone.

#62 Inequity on 06.09.21 at 3:38 pm

#31 Joe

Big corporations that genuinely wanted to help their fellow human beings instead of exploit them for profit.

Sounds like you don’t understand that corporations need to generate a profit to continue to exist.

#63 Dr V on 06.09.21 at 3:40 pm

39 Dave – from the link

“Under the legislation, prices can be displayed in both U.S. dollar and bitcoin amounts across the country. The U.S. dollar will still serve as the default currency for reference, and exchange rates for bitcoin will be determined by the free market.”

This is no different than paying for something with
foreign currency at the posted exchange rate. Ultimately it is still $US as the standard. Bitcoins volatility is going to make it difficult.

#64 wallflower on 06.09.21 at 3:40 pm

A pipe dream? You are history ignorant.
Go chat with all the 60s and 70s and 80s decades folks in all those Balkan countries in the USSR ring about what you propose. They lived it. See what they think! Have you spent time with them? They will sort you out.

#31 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:57 pm
And what fool would want to be a landlord? – Garth

Who indeed? Perhaps people that genuinely wanted to help their fellow human beings instead of exploit them for profit. Perhaps individual landlords would disappear and rentals would be solely the purview of government and big corporations. No matter. It’s just a pipe dream anyway.

#65 Sarah Alb on 06.09.21 at 3:42 pm

It’s a hard thing to measure, that is, whether or not taxes or purchasing exclusion such as the proposed has or will be effective. However simple baseline supply/demand economics would suggest it will have SOME impact. It doesn’t seem logical and relational to say that removing some demand and increasing supply by some extent won’t impact values. Of course it will. How much? Who knows. But if you don’t live in this country and contribute to taxes and society, why should you be able to own land or housing that is in short supply and needed by those invested in this country. Want to buy a place, great, move here. It’s a great please to live.

#66 Winterpeg on 06.09.21 at 3:43 pm

For sale/ 5 East Gate, Winnipeg, Manitoba R3C2C2 –
MLS #202104376 | REALTOR.ca.webarchive

This is what 1,649,900 could get you in Winnipeg.

But it’s… The Peg. – Garth

#67 Linda on 06.09.21 at 3:43 pm

Some thoughts. First, if one is only a resident but not as yet a citizen of Canada, the federal government is going to tax them more if they own a property? If so, then the answer would be to apply for & get citizenship, especially if one intends to keep on living here for some time to come. I’m just presuming the extra tax goes away once one becomes a citizen, though no doubt one would have to let the government know the change in status.

Second, if one in five households own second properties for investment purposes, would not the ever increasing taxes in the most popular locales encourage them to shed those money sucking assets? Of course, if they aren’t primary residences I suppose the government then collects a whack of tax, but given they are getting it anyway hardly seems like a reason to hang on. Or am I missing something?

As for increased taxes somehow making housing more affordable – well, if the plan was to make housing so unattractive that the price would drop, didn’t work. Further, all that extra tax just adds to the operating cost of owning a place, so ‘affordability’ was just sucked off by the tax man. Genius!

#68 Faron on 06.09.21 at 3:44 pm

#51 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 2:38 pm

You mean my most recent comment in which I covered my eyes against this blog?

Catch y’all later

#69 willworkforpickles on 06.09.21 at 3:47 pm

Some people buy the ludicrous assumption there will be low interest rates to infinity till doomsday illusion.
Would government vote chasers retain their glory at the polls if they stopped printing money to give to eager recipients of gov support who make up a very large portion of those who vote for them.
Government printing mad support is not going away.
There is no choice in the matter…interest rates will go up (by means and reasons never before seen) to keep this never seen before turbo cash spitting monster of creation alive.

The rising debt needs to be purchased. Buyers of the increasingly risky level of national debt demand a higher rate…wouldn’t a mortgage broker holding a second and third mortgage of escalated risk and increased debt?… wouldn’t you?
Foreign holders of National US debt are already dumping US debt and will continue to do so if they don’t get higher rates soon.
The creators and co-creators of the US printing mad monster will say yes to higher rates.
Canada nonetheless as always will be affected.

#70 Father’s Day on 06.09.21 at 3:49 pm

Well now that life is opening back up (hellooo patios Friday in Ontario) the stories of buyers remorse are rolling in and buying an overpriced house in the middle of nowhere suddenly may seem like a horrible idea. I’ve got staycations planned that leave my primary residence to be less and less relevant to my life
Time to revive the small businesses!
Here in Ontario wine country the bleeding businesses are ready for us – visited two today and they’ve got brand new patios, new menus, new gardens
Finally something to do besides look at realtor.ca

#71 Don Guillermo on 06.09.21 at 3:51 pm

#68 Faron on 06.09.21 at 3:44 pm
#51 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 2:38 pm

You mean my most recent comment in which I covered my eyes against this blog?
*********************************
You’ve been peeking haven’t you?

#72 TurnerNation on 06.09.21 at 3:53 pm

Comrades! Have you seen the new State Approved exercise regime in Ontariowe?
Completion of this regime will boost your social credit score you know. Private gyms must remain closed.

Our kamp commondants have permitted us leave from our huts that we may exercise in the yard.

.The city unveiled its new “ParkFitTO” pilot program on Monday
Outdoor exercise classes will once again be permitted in Ontario this weekend
https://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2021/06/toronto-gym-owner-says-citys-new-outdoor-fitness-program-hurts-small-business/

Economic Shutdowns – Long terms plans. Easily 2022-23 or 2025. Until the world is re-made. Amazing what the Bats can do. This type of global power will not be handed back.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-returns-to-its-strict-covid-restrictions-to-fight-a-new-outbreak/ar-AAKRR89
China Returns to Its Strict Covid Restrictions to Fight a New Outbreak

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2021/03/31/governments-investing-in-new-vaccine-manufacturing-plant-in-toronto.html
Governments investing in new vaccine-manufacturing plant in Toronto
Wed., March 31, 2021


Papers please, the Consp. Nutters were right, here.

.Immunization card unveiled in Manitoba
‘We hope this is a temporary measure, of course,’ said Premier Brian Pallister

#73 MaggieB on 06.09.21 at 3:53 pm

#35 Sail Away

Not so sure about our protected Garry Oaks anymore. Many disappearing here in Victoria, especially on large development sites. Wonder how they manage that? Hmmm….

#74 Joe on 06.09.21 at 3:54 pm

#62 Inequity on 06.09.21 at 3:38 pm

#31 Joe

Big corporations that genuinely wanted to help their fellow human beings instead of exploit them for profit.

Sounds like you don’t understand that corporations need to generate a profit to continue to exist.

How on Earth did you get that from what I wrote? I was musing about what sort of individuals would want to be land lords if the government passed a law guaranteeing security of tenure. I speculated either altruistic ones or none. Believe it or not, I put some thought into what I write here. I’d appreciate it if you did me the courtesy of doing the same before replying.

#75 willworkforpickles on 06.09.21 at 4:02 pm

When i said foreign holders of US debt are already dumping US securities i should add, they are doing so very slowly because there are few actual buyers now.
This doesn’t bode well for the future of interest rates in the least.

#76 45north on 06.09.21 at 4:07 pm

let’s go back to yesterday’s chart

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/S-P-Case-Shiller-US-National-Home-Price-Index_fig4_257765797

in the US, in January 2005, house prices were going up by 20% a year but by January 2008, they were going down by 20% a year. The decline precipitated the Great Financial Crisis and was stemmed by the intervention of the US government.

In Canada, during the same period, house prices didn’t go down – they just kept on going up. We said we were so smart. Well now prices have just gone up 23% – not supported by income nor by equivalent rent. What is supporting them is massive debt.

Prices have to come down.

#77 45north on 06.09.21 at 4:08 pm

Joe What about an empty bedrooms tax that targeted people whose principal residences have two or more spare rooms?

what about the idea that government has no place in the bedrooms of Canadians?

#78 Richard L on 06.09.21 at 4:13 pm

Higher taxation causes more active tax evasion. Tax evasion causes more punitive enforcement. This causes more tax evasion.

Where does this cycle end??

#79 The West on 06.09.21 at 4:14 pm

….still waiting for a call back on that job in Austin….

#80 Cottagers go North on 06.09.21 at 4:23 pm

#61 R on 06.09.21 at 3:31 pm
I don’t know what to think about the Residential School situation. I don’t know what percent of the children bodies found was to the number of children that were educated by the school over the lifetime the school was operating. I don’t know if this percentage was inline with a “normal” children death rate. No one knows what the death rate would have been for the children if they did not attend the school at all, perhaps the schools were a relative oasis of safety for the children , we don’t know. I come back to a question I have voiced before, Why is there a reservation system at all ?
———————————–

To steal the land and resources – is this not obvious too all the statue lovers out there?????

#81 Rochdale GM on 06.09.21 at 4:28 pm

And the scheming and lobbying by the real estate cartel for decades

#82 Wrk.dover on 06.09.21 at 4:30 pm

#9 DLT INC on 06.09.21 at 1:06 pm
Just finished Sam Coopers book Wilful Blindness and recommend that every Canadian and especially BCers read it. If what he writes has any truth at all, it appears that Canadians have not been well served by their elected representatives.

____________________

I still feel Wrk.dover when I think about the contents of Stevie Cameron’s book about Mulroney, which she wrote so many years ago.

When there is no slander suit, the facts stick.

#83 X on 06.09.21 at 4:35 pm

No rate hike was expected today, nor is one anticipated until early in 2022. Then be careful. – Garth

With any luck the economy really rebounds and we get a small rate hike late this year. Or at least in the US. Something to send a signal of where rates are heading. Words don’t seem to sink in to some.

I genuinely feel sorry for the hole some are digging themselves into.

#84 Inequity on 06.09.21 at 4:43 pm

#74 Joe on 06.09.21 at 3:54 pm

How on earth did I get that? It was process of copy and paste what you wrote. Removed the section on government since Garth had already addressed and it did not pertain to my answer.

Sorry that I missed that you put all that thought into your answer. It doesn’t show.

#85 Don Guillermo on 06.09.21 at 4:56 pm

#79 The West on 06.09.21 at 4:14 pm
….still waiting for a call back on that job in Austin….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Woke capital of Texas. Tent cities c/w defunding police. Great combo. Used to be a great city.

https://youtu.be/JVl5SEDllN0

#86 BillyBob on 06.09.21 at 4:58 pm

#68 Faron on 06.09.21 at 3:44 pm
#51 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 2:38 pm

You mean my most recent comment in which I covered my eyes against this blog?

Catch y’all later

==============================================

It’s actually kind of endearing to see that a Ph.D. in Geology doesn’t prevent one from acting like a 12 year old girl. (With apologies to 12 year old girls everywhere.)

“I’m leaving now. I mean it. REALLY LEAVING!”

“ok maybe I’ll just make one more little comment. NOW I’m REALLY REALLY LEAVING!!”

….

“oh this is really hard. BUT I’M LEAVING! FOR REALZ!”

“Stop it. YOU STOP IT!”

lots of pouting and hair-tossing etc.

*sigh*

He’ll be back, count on it. He just can’t help himself.

#87 Penny Henny on 06.09.21 at 4:59 pm

#136 Wrk.dover on 06.09.21 at 12:16 pm
#125 IHCTD9 on 06.09.21 at 10:52 am

YouTube is just awesome for music.

___________________________

Once upon a time, there wasn’t even FM radio!

CFNY, the spirit of radio, was the pioneer of not mainstream. Broadcast from Brampton in the day.

David Marsden, now there was a DJ!

/////////////////

CFNY, ahh memories of what a great radio station could be. The spirit of radio.
Remember some of the other DJ’s
-Live Earl Jive and his sidekick ‘The lovely and talented Beverly Hills’
-Chris Puppy Dog Sheppard
-Maye Potts (she’s still around on 97.3)

They played music that didn’t receive air time on any other radio station in Toronto(I’m talking early 80’s, when music was at it’s pinnacle). Across North America there was maybe only 3 other stations like them.
Pity.
for fans of the 80’s and some of it’s obscure offerings check out http://www.sanctuaryradio.com and http://www.flashbackalternatives.com . Both are free and commercial free.

#88 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 5:17 pm

#73 MaggieB on 06.09.21 at 3:53 pm
#35 Sail Away

Not so sure about our protected Garry Oaks anymore. Many disappearing here in Victoria, especially on large development sites. Wonder how they manage that? Hmmm…

———

Yes, it’s a shame. Private developers can still cut them down if they pay fees in lieu and replant at the mandated replacement number.

However… if you want trees in the municipal right of way in front of your own house, plant Garry Oaks… then create a huge uproar if the City ever proposes to do work requiring tree removal. You’ll win. It’s each homeowner’s responsibility to re-create the pleasant, tree-lined boulevards of yore.

#89 Capt. Serious on 06.09.21 at 5:21 pm

Well, I don’t think O’Toole wants to do anything other than get elected.
40 year amortization offers the hope that some folks could buy houses who otherwise couldn’t. Attractive.
Banning foreigners panders to conservatives who don’t like foreigners. Stellar.

#90 Felix on 06.09.21 at 5:22 pm

A pox on all dogawful canines is an excellent suggestion, Mr. Turner.

Your clarity and forthrightness is appreciated.

#91 When the Whip Comes Down on 06.09.21 at 5:24 pm

Garth you are way off on Victoria, plenty of the available sfd stock is below $1.5 mill. Dumps? Some but no generally.

#92 Joe on 06.09.21 at 5:31 pm

#77 45north on 06.09.21 at 4:08 pm

Joe What about an empty bedrooms tax that targeted people whose principal residences have two or more spare rooms?

what about the idea that government has no place in the bedrooms of Canadians?

Oooo… good one! That sure shoots down that idea. Squatting on a few empty bedrooms are you?

#84 Inequity on 06.09.21 at 4:43 pm

Sorry that I missed that you put all that thought into your answer. It doesn’t show.

Love it! I guess Garth calls this the steerage section for a reason.

#93 Ustabe on 06.09.21 at 5:35 pm

As the school kids continue their self congratulatory victory tour over Faron I guess its time for another recipe.

Cook bacon rashers, (strips).

Whisk up your favourite pancake batter.

Pour half into a squeeze bottle. We use up-cycled ketchup bottles.

Pour a “log” of pancake batter onto the griddle.
This needs to be a titch wider and longer than a bacon rasher.

Just as the top begins to firm up but before flipping the pancake log lay a strip of bacon down. Give it a little nudge into the batter.

Squeeze a topper layer of batter and flip.

Works for breakfast sausage links as well if you slice the sausage in half (lengthwise).

This has been your Greater Fool mandated break from childishness.

You all are very welcome.

#94 LuckyGuess on 06.09.21 at 5:44 pm

Maybe we’d get somewhere when g-men stop trying to make money off of this problem and start trying to solve it instead. Until then this will just keep rolling along like it is, and unfortunately this blog will remain only hopeful (but not accurate) about predictions of a housing market decline.

#95 Rainman on 06.09.21 at 5:47 pm

40 year amortization doesn’t seem all that bad really? A chance for people to get in and keep prices stable. One day go to 50 year… why not. :) Kind of like renting, but you own.

#96 Triplenet on 06.09.21 at 5:59 pm

No envy – trust me.
I watch a lot of Houston baseball.

Ten years of property taxes equals $400,000 which is tax-deductible. Add that to the purchase prices and it’s still a deal vs Canada. – Garth

Not so fast Garth. There are caveats in the the applicable legislation.

#97 Upenuff on 06.09.21 at 6:00 pm

Been living in Vancouver for 59 years and nothing is surprising anymore. I will not read Sam Cooper’s book as it will only increase the size of the left coast ulcer that I already have. I will just keep drinking the water (as politically tainted as it is) and watch the madness here as the rest of the world continues to move into our old neighbourhoods. That is progress apparently. Now pass me another glass of water……

Upenuff

#98 the Jaguar on 06.09.21 at 6:15 pm

@#124 Love_The_Cottage on 06.09.21 at 10:18 am
#117 the Jaguar on 06.09.21 at 7:12 am
After all, who is more likely to get promoted? An individual who has developed a personal relationship with their superior? Or an employee who, at best, is seen occasionally online at predetermined times?_______
Here’s a novel ideal. How about the person who is doing the best job? For many jobs there are stats available.
I wonder which companies will do better? Those who promote based on just showing up in the office, or those who base remuneration based on performance? +++++
I just included a small excerpt from the article, but this sentence followed what I included in my post:
“Likewise, when it comes time to cut staff, who is going to be retained? Employees are constantly surprised when relationships trump merit in promotion and dismissal discussions.”
I don’t disagree with you. Sounds like you believe in fairness and rewarding results.
Not sure how well that is working out these days. The waters look a little murky, but don’t shoot me. I’m just the piano player…..

Love that dog’s fur coat. She wears it like an old bath robe.

#99 Nonplused on 06.09.21 at 6:19 pm

I still don’t understand the logic of how a capital gains tax on primary residences will make them cheaper. IMHO it will just make sellers more hesitant because they are going to have to foot a big bill. And it really only applies to the YVR and YYZ service areas in any scale.

#100 Penny Henny on 06.09.21 at 6:21 pm

#52 T-Rev on 06.09.21 at 2:40 pm
Nice place, that house in Houston. Better be making some money though, because the property taxes are $40k per year. Insurance looks like it adds another $17k/yr.

Interesting comparison, certainly highlights the difference in the two countries.

Ten years of property taxes equals $400,000 which is tax-deductible. Add that to the purchase prices and it’s still a deal vs Canada. – Garth
///////////

I guess it all depends on the difference in price appreciation after 10 years.

#101 NOSTRADAMUS on 06.09.21 at 6:24 pm

TWO BUTTONS!
There are only 2 buttons in life (1) Hope and (2) Fear. If you are the government you offer more hope. If you are the opposition party you push the fear button, constantly focusing on the government scandals, mistakes, etc. When the opposition turns the tide and starts to sway the public, they switch over to the Hope button. It’s simplistic. Look at all the campaigns (1) HOPE AND (2) FEAR.
How does this relate on a personal level? If you are on top with wealth, good health, both physical and mental you tend to push the Hope button. (Much wants more). If you are struggling, no money, debts, health issues, physical or mental, you are pushing the Fear button. What a lot of people on top often overlook is the fact these buttons change back and forth depending on circumstances, good or bad. Getting long in the tooth, I can’t recall ever experiencing anything like the current craziness in the world today. It is now shrouding me in uncharacteristic bouts of melancholy. You can call me a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.

#102 Nonplused on 06.09.21 at 6:26 pm

#6 Dolce Vita on 06.09.21 at 12:59 pm
Treat any home, apartment, as an asset.

If you take money out of it by selling it, HELOC, refinancing, whatever, that money is taxed as a:

Capital Gain.

Whether owned privately or by a business, corp. whatever same rule applies to all. Including principal residences.

—————————-

Well, sure, if you also want to through in all the deduction businesses get. So that means writing off property taxes, mortgage insurance, maintenance, etc. But since a primary residence does not generate income, it would have to be written off against income taxes.

Also, what happens if dog forbid a home owner sold at a loss? Is there a write off?

I see no reason why a capital gains tax would have any affect on demand. It only applies to sellers, who now want more for their houses because they are going to get stuck with a big bill.

#103 Nonplused on 06.09.21 at 6:28 pm

#10 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:07 pm

“What about an empty bedrooms tax that targeted people whose principal residences have two or more spare rooms?”

What’s a “spare bedroom”? Especially in the days of WFH, there is no such thing at my house!

#104 Faron on 06.09.21 at 6:30 pm

#86 BillyBob on 06.09.21 at 4:58 pm

I reserve the right to defend myself and will do so if I see my name dragged around.

And you are a hypocrite:

#136 BillyBob on 03.23.21 at 2:18 pm #189

“This is your safe space again.”

#189 BillyBob on 03.24.21 at 7:37 am

It’s just so damn easy with you BillyBob. Get over yourself.

#105 VanSight on 06.09.21 at 6:32 pm

How about we take CMHC out of the single family home business and allow the banks to take all the risks associated with mortgages? The rates will get priced appropriately. The taxpayer will not be forced to cover the banks’ risk.

The whole reason for CMHC was to encourage home loans after WWII because the banks were really conservative. CMHC has done it’s job too well. It’s time to get out of that business.

#106 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.09.21 at 6:40 pm

@#86 BillyB
“He’ll be back, count on it. He just can’t help himself.”

+++
I always liked ,

“I’m going to hold my breath until I die!
And you’ll all be really really really sad when I’m gone!”

#107 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 6:59 pm

#93 Ustabe on 06.09.21 at 5:35 pm

As the school kids continue their self congratulatory victory tour over Faron I guess its time for another recipe.

——–

We’re so good, your mom cheers for us!

Guess you made a fumble,
Looks like you had a tumble,
You’re probably feeling humble,
So just try not to stumble
AN-Y-MORE!

You brag about your science
You try to talk smack
But when it comes to blogging
You better watch your back!

Hey! Hey!

#108 Sunny Daze on 06.09.21 at 7:03 pm

Reaction to the big number tomorrow will be telling….

#109 TheDood on 06.09.21 at 7:17 pm

#10 Joe on 06.09.21 at 1:07 pm
You are wrong because it did not work. The myth of the foreign buyer setting prices led everyone astray. Current market conditions prove it. – Garth

Thanks for your reply, but this doesn’t really answer my question. Let’s take for granted that the current taxes are ineffective. Does that mean that no tax could be? What about a large speculation tax that actually targeted speculators? What about an empty bedrooms tax that targeted people whose principal residences have two or more spare rooms?
_____________________________________

OMG! Are you serious? Like we need more tax. Leave the government out of the housing market period. Our government is only ever going to use the housing market situation as a means to get re-elected.
And in a nation of financial idiots, this is proving to be rather easy for them.

How about we just raise interest rates to where were prior to 2008 (we’ve been in ’emergency rate’ mode since then) and see where the chips fall.

#110 KLNR on 06.09.21 at 7:47 pm

#93 Ustabe on 06.09.21 at 5:35 pm
As the school kids continue their self congratulatory victory tour over Faron I guess its time for another recipe.

Cook bacon rashers, (strips).

Whisk up your favourite pancake batter.

Pour half into a squeeze bottle. We use up-cycled ketchup bottles.

Pour a “log” of pancake batter onto the griddle.
This needs to be a titch wider and longer than a bacon rasher.

Just as the top begins to firm up but before flipping the pancake log lay a strip of bacon down. Give it a little nudge into the batter.

Squeeze a topper layer of batter and flip.

Works for breakfast sausage links as well if you slice the sausage in half (lengthwise).

This has been your Greater Fool mandated break from childishness.

You all are very welcome.

Lmao.
Wonder if those folks are bullies in the real world as well.
Probably.

#111 yvr_lurker on 06.09.21 at 7:59 pm

Economics is not a controlled laboratory experiment, where each Gov’t policy can be examined in a vacuum as to their effectiveness, and the bad ones thrown out. The landscape is ever changing and sometimes huge sudden “earthquakes” render previous efforts obsolete.
In particular, from this armchair economist, what has gone on in the past crazy 15 months has a very different origin to what was going on from 2005–2017 in the run-up of prices in YVR.

Prior to Covid and the sub-zero 2% 5 year mortgages (say around the middle of 2019), prices were coming down in YVR as speculators of all stripes (locals and foreign) were largely chased from the market. Due to the extra taxes on foreign buyers, people overseas were not clicking from their computers and swiping-right in the tinder-buying of unbuilt condos or selecting luxury detached homes for their worldwide collection (in Vancouver west-side or West Van). Less pressure was put on locals to try to compete, and the downward correction on house prices and rents was in the right direction. The trend was to allow the locals (and their next generation) who do not have inter-generational transfers of huge $$$ to try to make a go of it in greater YVR with good-paying jobs.

However, I do agree at this stage that all is essentially lost for the next generation in purchasing their own place and enjoying the lifestyle I had 25 years prior. It is especially problematic for kids of families who cannot help with huge downpayments, and unfortunately this inaffordability issue has spread, owing to a combination of COVID (working from home) and sub-zero mortgages, to many smaller cities and towns. Many of these places were previously affordable but perhaps not so desirable otherwise due to limited interesting work opportunities.

As in a controlled experiment, we cannot undo the COVID storm and ill-effect of 2% 5-year mortages, and see where we would have been if the trend shown in 2017 was extrapolated to now. I suspect a very different outcome, but economics does not work that way.

The gap between rich (many long-time owners) and the relative poor has grown wider and with this growing inequality we can fully expect politicians to be seen by the hordes of “doing something about the problem”. Who knows what they will come up with next. Sorry, about your O’Toole fellow and his latest idea. He is as dim as they come, and T2 of course and Jagmeet are of course no better for other reasons.

Probably the best step is to try the experiment of removing all the speculation taxes on real estate and this will entice foreigners to come back into the market. This will complete the final step in transforming much of Canada into Monaco or Luxemburg; perfectly stable places for the rich, but where all the eager un-entitled citizens have long left for better opportunities elsewhere.

#112 Garth's Son Drake on 06.09.21 at 8:14 pm

A lot of people were tricked and the gov basically bowed to the ideas floating around in a clever way to not only gain popularity but also collect on RE, where most of the money is.

Regardless of all the variables fuelling housing (which has proven to be primarily driven by central banks), there are two measures everyone should be demanding if they want a normal housing market.

1. Home ownership for living in – meaning only allowing one property per family at any given time.

2. Supply – if there are not enough homes for every family to have at least one – start building. Flood the market.

The above two solutions will never be allowed to happen due to Real Estate being a business/casino/unregulated stock market. The Feds and municipalities will forever block this. Municipalities play land use restriction games and are basically owned by the developers who understand the two rules above very well.

The whole thing is crooked and always will be.

Government should post the above analytics. Prove it to the public about how many people own more than one home and how much supply balances out the needs of having somewhere to live. The government has all of this information. They are masterfully playing the game and not really having to do anything about it or being held accountable, letting RE be a casino.

And if you can’t beat them, join them.

O’Tool wants to bring back 40 year mortgages? LOL

I chose to join a long time ago. You can’t fight the fed.

#113 Concerned Citizen on 06.09.21 at 8:18 pm

You can’t assess the effectiveness of a policy on anecdote or a sample size of one. There are lots of factors at play – low interest rates, unprecedented sudden demand for greater space, etc. Sound econometric analysis is needed to determine the relative importance of each.

I disagree with Garth strongly on this. If you want less of something – in this case demand for investment properties, foreign demand, etc. – then tax it more. That’s just basic economics.

As far as I’m concerned, housing affordability – or rather, total lack thereof – is a national emergency. And that’s not hyperbole – middle class families can no longer afford to live in many parts of the country. How long can that continue if Canada is to maintain a high quality of life for most citizens? I have never been a one issue voter, but I will looking at the policy platforms very carefully on this file very closely this time around. Hopefully at least one party has a credible approach. And no, going to 40-year amortizations is not a solution – it’s making the problem worse. Solutions for improving the situation:

– CMHC provides insurance for first-time buyers only. For everyone else, let the banks shoulder the risk for this craziness.

– clamp down on money laundering

– tax investment properties and foreign investment in residential property up the wazoo – other countries do this, why can’t we?

– raise interest so that the real interest rate (nominal – inflation rate) is at least 0%

These are practical, sensible solutions most people can agree on – naturally, I expect none of them to come about.

#114 BC Politics on 06.09.21 at 8:26 pm

It is funny how so many people took it to Christ Clark and blamed the Liberals for high real estate prices.

Prices have never soared so much all under the NDP over the past few years and nobody is really taking it to the NDP.

Every party is in on this.

I think people are realizing the real culprit of money printing and the business of real estate. It is just one big business detached from the long ago purpose of serving as shelter.

The business of real estate wants everyone to be paying all of their money into it and then some and it is unregulated. And they have almost succeeded in doing so.

Hopefully we don’t ever see a downturn in the profitable business of real estate that the entire country has doubled down on, because wealth could evaporate and people would get angry.

#115 JRT on 06.09.21 at 8:35 pm

BC and other Canadian provinces and territories should have the same rules on foreign ownership as PEI does. Regardless of what realtors say foreign ownership does cause a false “demand”. Of course being BC, the land of money laundering, fraud, need I go on? Canadian provinces were laid out during the expansion period in the 1800s. Some provinces, especially BC must be broken up into smaller more efficient states. Vancouver which is a drain on the rest of BC, should become a city state like Singapore, or what Hong Kong used to be. BTW. The leaches who ripped of BC taxpayers for the 2010 Olympics are back wanting to bid on the 2030. No thanks.

#116 macduff on 06.09.21 at 8:49 pm

Why is Turnernation allowed to post here? I thought conspiracy theory nutjobs were banned.

He’s like our Chia pet. – Garth

#117 Wonderer on 06.09.21 at 8:58 pm

And what fool would want to be a landlord? – Garth

I know two of them. One has a house in Ajax and another one has in Nobleton. Both are renting for themselves in Toronto since they have been living there for a longer time and their rent is pretty low, however they are renting their houses that they bought. Both are very happy, since the rent out their houses and that covers the mortgages and the additional costs, + they get about a 5-10% additional cash. None of them are declaring the income from their rentals and their primary residences are their homes.
I think this is done by most amateur landlords in GTA, since I’ve heard it from others as well. Same thing the Airbnb landlords are(were) doing. I know that is illegal, but it seems that it works perfectly well for them.

They are criminals, not landlords. – Garth

#118 Lorne on 06.09.21 at 9:05 pm

#3 Joe on 06.09.21 at 12:52 pm
A year ago 60% of BCers said heaping more taxes on real estate would make it less expensive, proving many people will believe anything if told it often enough.

Can you qualify this a bit? You’ve said many times that you can’t reduce real estate prices through taxation, but it seems kind of intuitive to me:

* Identify some group of people who buy houses
* Slap a tax on them
* The increased price makes houses less attractive for the group, so some percentage decide to park their money elsewhere
* This decreases demand, which leads to lower prices

Where do I go wrong? Is your view that taxation in general can *never* work, or is it just that the current batch of proposed and implemented taxes are ineffective? (Because they target tiny microsegments of the market or target the wrong things, like mountain vacation homes where no one wants to live year round anyway.)

You are wrong because it did not work. The myth of the foreign buyer setting prices led everyone astray. Current market conditions prove it. – Garth
………
Actually, it has worked…though maybe not as much as was hoped for. Can’t imagine where the prices, which are outrageous, would be without these measures…they certainly would not be where they are now.

#119 Sara on 06.09.21 at 9:09 pm

#110 KLNR on 06.09.21 at 7:47 pm

“Wonder if those folks are bullies in the real world as well.
Probably.”

===============
Guaranteed. But much less potential fallout for them if they can get their fix in cyber world.

#120 Lorne on 06.09.21 at 9:26 pm

#105 VanSight on 06.09.21 at 6:32 pm
How about we take CMHC out of the single family home business and allow the banks to take all the risks associated with mortgages? The rates will get priced appropriately. The taxpayer will not be forced to cover the banks’ risk.

The whole reason for CMHC was to encourage home loans after WWII because the banks were really conservative. CMHC has done it’s job too well. It’s time to get out of that business.
…..
Makes perfect sense and not difficult to implement….except for the employees of CMHC.

#121 DON on 06.09.21 at 9:33 pm

#110 KLNR on 06.09.21 at 7:47 pm
#93 Ustabe on 06.09.21 at 5:35 pm
As the school kids continue their self congratulatory victory tour over Faron I guess its time for another recipe.

Cook bacon rashers, (strips).

Whisk up your favourite pancake batter.

Pour half into a squeeze bottle. We use up-cycled ketchup bottles.

Pour a “log” of pancake batter onto the griddle.
This needs to be a titch wider and longer than a bacon rasher.

Just as the top begins to firm up but before flipping the pancake log lay a strip of bacon down. Give it a little nudge into the batter.

Squeeze a topper layer of batter and flip.

Works for breakfast sausage links as well if you slice the sausage in half (lengthwise).

This has been your Greater Fool mandated break from childishness.

You all are very welcome.

Lmao.
Wonder if those folks are bullies in the real world as well.
Probably.

**********

I am starting to wonder as well.

@Ustabe…thanks for the recipe and the laugh.

#122 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.09.21 at 10:01 pm

@#115 JRT
“BC and other Canadian provinces and territories should have the same rules on foreign ownership as PEI does. ”

++++
Doesnt matter.
As a former “foreign owner” ( PEI is not my primary residence) of PEI property (cottage).
Make a “foreign ownership” law and lawyers will find a way around it.
My personal experiences in PEI visiting relatives.
Driving around window shopping at property sites.
Talking to relatives that are in the provincial govt, or that sell property insurance, or are realtors, or are builders building/upgrading residences for “come from aways”….

Farmland and homes are being snapped up at an unbelievable rate by “companies” that are foreign owned.
The company is created and registered in PEI.
Thus it becomes a “local” entity and dodges the “foreign ownership” clause and the double property tax.

#123 Michael in-north-york on 06.09.21 at 10:07 pm

A tax on foreigners, or the 40-years mortgages, won’t make houses more affordable.

Higher mortgage rates or a stricter stress test won’t make them more affordable, either. Some people will be shut out of RE, that means RE became less affordable for them. Others, with better income-to-debt ratios, will face less competition and lower prices. For the second group, RE will become more affordable. On average, no change in affordability, just the winners and the losers swapped.

You can say higher rates will remove buyers with weak finances who shouldn’t be on the market, and that will make the RE market more stable. That’s true. Market stability is not the same thing as affordability.

If affordability is the goal, then: first is the supply side, fewer restrictions on residential. And second, a tax regime that rewards for using the land and discourages from just hoarding it.

#124 Phylis on 06.09.21 at 10:11 pm

#86 BillyBob on 06.09.21 at 4:58 pm
#68 Faron on 06.09.21 at 3:44 pm
#51 Sail Away on 06.09.21 at 2:38 pm

You mean my most recent comment in which I covered my eyes against this blog?

Catch y’all later

==============================================

It’s actually kind of endearing to see that a Ph.D. in Geology doesn’t prevent one from acting like a 12 year old girl. (With apologies to 12 year old girls everywhere.)…….
Xxxxxxxxxx
A Rock Doctor?! Cool, rock on!

#125 greaterfool on 06.09.21 at 10:13 pm

Very disappointed with OT. He thinks he is smart, since he is targeting at those who don’t have right to vote. but actually he lost, at least lost the confidence from a long time PC supporter.

Those taxes won’t work because those only increases very little carrying cost comparing to the tax-free capital gains. it actually tells the speculators that the risks of government intervention to house price can be ignored, so buy more.

The fundamental problem is houses are financial assets now! so disappointed that our leaders, all of them, don’t want to recognize this, or think this is not an issue.

#126 Memory lane on 06.09.21 at 10:14 pm

#60 JC on 10.11.08 at 5:07 am

One of the greatest investors of the 20th Century, John Templeton, predicted in 2004 that real estate would lose 90% of its gains. Kelowna looks to be well on its way there, with Vancouver to follow.

___________________________________________

I love to reminisce. How time has made JC look like the greatestfool. His comments are over a decade old but remain as laughable today as ever. Yet my Kelowna property is up 68% from where I bought it just 4 years ago. Even those that purchased a dozen years ago have done well.

I can’t speak to where JC is but I’m pretty sure he joined the circus. As for Templeton, he was dead 4 years after making this lame brain prediction.

Sound familiar?

#127 the Jaguar on 06.09.21 at 10:15 pm

The word ‘Bullies’ is sure being tossed around quite a lot. It has a ring of ‘cancel culture’ and I won’t be intimidated.

So, I’ll just put it out there. I consider BillyBob a like minded traveler through this crazy world. If he was trapped in a burning building I would rush back in to save him. Period. I also like Sail Away’s positive attitude to life. Even if he does like that Musk guy.
Nonplused and DonG are sensible Albertans. IHCTD9, , Job#1, Fartz, and Flop are all honorary Albertans in my books. Fishman holds platinum status membership.

If that makes the Jaguar a ‘bully’, then go ahead and give me three votes as a ‘bully’ and I will be gone permanently. I don’t lose the blog, just the character accusations. The opportunity to share information with Garth doesn’t disappear. He knows what I refer to….

So give me three votes KLNR, Ustabe, Wrkover, Sarah, and of course Faron. Where one window closes another opens. I figure you’ll be poorer for it, and that’s o.k. by me.

#128 DON on 06.09.21 at 10:26 pm

https://www.reuters.com/business/fed-taper-looms-global-central-banks-eye-their-own-exits-stimulus-2021-06-09/

Timely read.

#129 Scott on 06.09.21 at 10:27 pm

“And what fool would want to be a landlord? – Garth”

Hopefully far fewer folks. Wouldn’t that help correct the market?

I’m in my young 30s and about half my close friend group have a second property that they’re renting out. One couple has a third and another has plunked down the money for a new build house that will be their 3rd property (2nd rental).

I think that quite adequately portrays why people in their 20s or people with average salaries are worried they’ll never afford a house in their life time.

#130 Al on 06.09.21 at 10:52 pm

This is just one weekend:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/5/22/22448746/chicago-weekend-shootings-may-21-may-24-crime-gun-violence-homicide

“Say, have you ever checked out what $1.7 million (the average of a SFD in Toronto) will buy in Chicago or Houston?”

Right behind ya..1.7mil in hand.

#131 VladTor on 06.09.21 at 10:59 pm

Garth:
It hasn’t worked. The penny is dropping. A new poll shows 59% of people aren’t sure any of this has been effective. The proof is in the sales and prices data of every real estate board across BC. Ditto in Ontario, where average prices have topped $1 million anywhere with decent cell reception and running water. There’s an anti-foreigner tax there, too. Also ineffective.

************

In my opinion this is working very well. I’m supporting those taxes.

1. Province received additional money from people who not residents. Those people not spending money in Canada and not supporting in this way local businesses. They using Canada like dispersal field in case emergency evacuation from they countries. Need to pay for maintaining dispersal field in good shape.

2. People who is residents bought for speculation goals (1 of 5) by Garth.

Result now not visible b’s (see Garth)
…Prices keep rising because (a) mortgage rates are ridiculous,
(e) capital gains on houses are tax-free.

They don’t selling empty b’s rising price cover additional tax.

Situation will change with increasing rate and decreasing prices.

This folk should pay additional tax for very good Canadian government who keep rate low, not taking capital gain tax and promising that RE prices never go down.

Need to pay for that and supporting budget full of holes.

NDP government BC as I see smarter than Ontario government – they for sure know how to make money!

3. How 59% know that is not working? Did they check how much free money came or read balance sheet before (when Tax wasn’t) and now?

Crowd making conclusion just watching TV and eating what it was said.

#132 VladTor on 06.09.21 at 11:04 pm

#117 Wonderer

Garth comment:
They are criminals, not landlords.
**********

Agree!
Question is next. If government closing eyes for that then logical conclusion: Government supporting criminals! WHY?

#133 NSNG on 06.09.21 at 11:59 pm

#75 willworkforpickles on 06.09.21 at 4:02 pm

When i said foreign holders of US debt are already dumping US securities i should add, they are doing so very slowly because there are few actual buyers now.

I think this is where people kind of miss what is really going on. To see is to hit a crisis in your mind (I’ve been there). There will never be ‘few’ actual buyers because the Fed (and other CBs) can buy every dollar of debt printed. They have been buying most of it for a while and there is nothing stopping them from buying all of it since it is just printed dollars. A generation ago, there would be political consequences for doing this but that has been whisked away by the ‘mo muny’ crowd (homeowners, wall street, the welfare state).

The Fed is the de facto emperor of the world and the lapdog media utters not a peep. They also give themselves permission to buy corporate debt (the proceeds of which can then be used to buy back shares) so the bond vigilantes are deeply opiated and no longer have the power they once did.

This is the reality people need to get their minds around.

#134 BillyBob on 06.10.21 at 12:44 am

#104 Faron on 06.09.21 at 6:30 pm
#86 BillyBob on 06.09.21 at 4:58 pm

I reserve the right to defend myself and will do so if I see my name dragged around.

And you are a hypocrite:

#136 BillyBob on 03.23.21 at 2:18 pm #189

“This is your safe space again.”

#189 BillyBob on 03.24.21 at 7:37 am

It’s just so damn easy with you BillyBob. Get over yourself.

========================================

yep, just as I said, right on cue.

It’s always kind of interesting to see what rationalization you’ll bring. Sort of like the religious nuts who claim the world will end on a certain day but then have the most creative excuses why it didn’t (again).

So you’re here to defend your good name from the excruciating cruelty of being compared to a little girl? Sounds legit.

No one’s dragging your name around, you’re just making an ass of yourself by conflating unflattering observations into “unsafe spaces”. Some friendly advice? People might stop pointing out you’re acting like a child if you stopped acting like one.

#135 Zen Investor on 06.10.21 at 5:42 am

Governments in Canada setting extreme low interest rates, in a scheme that they designed for themselves to borrow without conscience, for their own political greed, are solely to blame for rising house prices and the inflation we see in everything. Solution is to stop the criminal borrowing scheme that allows the irresponsible borrowing and spending….period. Every other excuse for rising house prizes is unadulterated bullshit. Trudeau thinks it’s OK for him to borrow…but if you borrow you’re a criminal? Complete and utter BS !!!!

#136 willworkforpickles on 06.10.21 at 6:26 am

#133 NSNG
“There will never be ‘few’ actual buyers because the Fed (and other CBs) can buy every dollar of debt printed. They have been buying most of it for a while and there is nothing stopping them from buying all of it since it is just printed dollars. A generation ago, there would be political consequences for doing this but that has been whisked away by the ‘mo muny’ crowd (homeowners, wall street, the welfare state).”
…………………………………………………………………………………………………

The Fed cannot just keep printing and printing and buying its own debt without devaluing its currency to nothing ending in a global monetary meltdown that would leave the US dollar upended of its primary world reserve status. Half of the NA continent would ultimately starve in the outcome.
Foreign holders of national debt levels are at staggering heights now that need to be serviced. Buying our own debt can only work in conjunction to selling national debt to keep the house of cards standing where it eventually needs to be addressed and will be.

#137 westcdn on 06.10.21 at 6:28 am

I have been considering the merit of a transaction tax on monetary deposits and capital outflows. Physical cash would need to eliminated or severely reduced. We could look at India’s experience for lessons.

Cybercurrency is an issue so making it undesirable is key. I also want a capital tax on unrealized gains excluding primary residences. This tax would be treated as an installment on actual realized gains and refundable if so be. Private enterprises would have to estimated by the CRA through mandatory financial reporting. I would make sure lying is not a good idea.

A basic transaction tax credit would be provided through the filing of an income tax return. I would put all tax assessments on public record but access requests would be restricted and notifications sent to the inspected.

You think these ideas are draconian, think of what big Tech has on us already or the NSA for that matter. Bigger computers are on the way but they need a lot of windmills and batteries.

Of course these ideas can be rendered useless and avoidable with fewer social programs (smaller governments) and more personal integrity.

Thoughts for the day.

#138 Bezengy on 06.10.21 at 7:25 am

I think it’s time to think big. Perhaps a brand new city or two is needed in Canada to support its growing population. Make it green, make it affordable.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/06/09/massive-new-housing-community-will-have-no-carbon-footprint-developer-says.html

#139 Wrk.dover on 06.10.21 at 7:45 am

#127 the Jaguar on 06.09.21 at 10:15 pm

So give me three votes KLNR, Ustabe, Wrkover, Sarah, and of course Faron. Where one window closes another opens. I figure you’ll be poorer for it, and that’s o.k. by me.

__________________________

What’s this got to do with me, or Billy Bob Gaetz?

This is Garths blog, it’s not the rink.

Post in peace!

#140 Dharma Bum on 06.10.21 at 8:16 am

Say, have you ever checked out what $1.7 million (the average of a SFD in Toronto) will buy in Chicago or Houston?
—————————————————————————–

I once met an American who said to me that there are 2 types of people in the world: Americans, and those that wish they were Americans.

I think he was right.

#141 ogdoad on 06.10.21 at 8:22 am

Government is out to help the masses. Appease as many people as possible. Everyone in a house. Weed and beer on every street corner. It’s evolving into a Brave New Canada where our future generations whimper and whine like wussies…at home, in front of their massive TV’s while contemplating an extra soma. Then, anonymously, with their new found courage, post on blog – Great blog! Lol!

OAN – you really like to stir the pot, don’t you Garth?

Og

#142 Sail Away on 06.10.21 at 9:18 am

#127 the Jaguar on 06.09.21 at 10:15 pm

If that makes the Jaguar a ‘bully’, then go ahead and give me three votes as a ‘bully’ and I will be gone permanently.

———

Naw, don’t give others power over you. Living by others’ expectations is thin soup.

Faron is a sensitive but inflexible soul who runs so hot he blows himself up. This has happened before. There’s a pattern of posting more and more often, more and more stridently before boom-gone.

I fully believe Faron is a good person who means well and is probably very loyal, but with a seeming inability to differentiate between interwebz political opinions and Thanos universal annihilation, leveling the most heinous accusations against other good people whose opinions differ… resulting in resentment and opposition ‘teams’.

Such theatrical melodrama.

#143 Immigrant man on 06.10.21 at 9:21 am

I desperately wanted to like O’Toole. I’d never vote NDP (commies), not Liberal (NDP with good hair), so that leaves me with Cons…. but they are conservative in name only! What I see is the shift to the left in all parties. So yes, the cons are on the “right”, but the whole picture shifted left in the last couple of decades. I am for foreigner tax. It will not discourage wealthy foreign money launderers, but it will add $ to the budget. Of course it’s not the fix for insane RE prices. And presenting it as the “fix” is very dishonest.

#144 NSNG on 06.10.21 at 9:39 am

#136 willworkforpickles on 06.10.21 at 6:26 am

The Fed cannot just keep printing and printing and buying its own debt without devaluing its currency to nothing ending in a global monetary meltdown that would leave the US dollar upended of its primary world reserve status. Half of the NA continent would ultimately starve in the outcome.

But it is devaluing its currency. Look at the price of stocks, houses, and bitcoin. It takes many more dollars today to buy those things than just ten years ago. It is not because they went up in value. It is because they are assets and the dollar was devalued. The Fed created something ridiculous like 20 percent of all dollars just in the last year alone. This is why the stock market exploded back.

And do you think BTC should run from 9 cents to $35000 in just over a decade? Those are the things the Fed can’t control and those things are screaming devaluation.

We (in the finance arena) were having this same conversation in 2009 and yet here we are and the CBs haven’t stopped.

Asset prices are a reflection of devaluation.

#145 Woke up this morning... on 06.10.21 at 9:42 am

#15 Validation
#35 Sail Away
#57 KLNR

^^^^^^^^

It’s your thing and you enjoy it. Good on you.

May you enjoy it for years, may it bring you pleasure, may it keep you active and outdoors.

I may smell your flowers as I walk or bike by. I may admire it. I may even give your wife suggestions!

Oh…which reminds me. On a random walk over a year back I saw man and wife were laying rocks in a pond like concave natural pattern in their front yard. Man had that “wife’s idea” look on his case. Few walks later I noticed that they just left the rocks without any water at all. Few walks later they were planting some flowers as I was walking by, and I said “aren’t you going to put any water in this pond like thing? It would need to be a little deeper. Maybe a fountain to circulate the water, then you could also have some goldfish.” I was shot in the head twice by the husband – with his stern look so I smiled and kept walking. Anyhow, I noticed this year they have water and a fountain in the front. I should check for the fish.

#146 VladTor on 06.10.21 at 10:16 am

to #22 Faron
**************

This article full of hate to good government created school (in my opinion!). But among hate you can read true. Just pay attention – in article too many selected negative opinions. Questions are : ALL schools had same bad practice? How long it was? Did government provide inspection to prevent bad behavior teachers and check did particular school following rules? Did government tried to improve for instance food in school? and more… more questions like this.

All witnesses telling about 1930’s. Do you remember that it was time of Great Recession and even people in normal families didn’t have enough food for their kids.

NO ANSWERS. Only negative.

But to stay honest some positive we can read:

1. Len Marchand, the first-ever Status Indian elected to the House of Commons, attended Kamloops Indian Residential School in the late 1940s. In his 2000 autobiography Breaking Trail, he described it as a place that put a “definite priority on giving us an education,” and emphasized that it had been his choice to attend. “I’d had a good childhood with a loving family … but I wanted to be more than I was,” he wrote.

One of the great paradoxes of Indian Residential Schools was how institutions systematically designed to “get rid of the Indian problem” could still yield the occasional warm memory for those who had to face them.

2. “Between 2009 and 2011, many students have come forward to express their gratitude to former teachers at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission events,” read the commission’s final report. “Their testimony is a reminder that not all Residential School experiences are identical.”

AND:

3. “We keep constantly before the mind of the pupils the object which the government has in view … which is to civilize the Indians and to make them good, useful and law-abiding members of society,” wrote Carion.

Did this goal was achieved or no?

Dear Faron this school passed almost 150000. If situation would be so bad, those 150000 would do revolution after became adult. they could because they were armed with education.

I’m against concentrating only on small negative facts (they existed) as opposed to positive.

Need to show full picture.

#147 DON on 06.10.21 at 10:18 am

#134 BillyBob on 06.10.21 at 12:44 am
#104 Faron on 06.09.21 at 6:30 pm
#86 BillyBob on 06.09.21 at 4:58 pm

I reserve the right to defend myself and will do so if I see my name dragged around.

And you are a hypocrite:

#136 BillyBob on 03.23.21 at 2:18 pm #189

“This is your safe space again.”

#189 BillyBob on 03.24.21 at 7:37 am

It’s just so damn easy with you BillyBob. Get over yourself.

========================================

yep, just as I said, right on cue.

It’s always kind of interesting to see what rationalization you’ll bring. Sort of like the religious nuts who claim the world will end on a certain day but then have the most creative excuses why it didn’t (again).

So you’re here to defend your good name from the excruciating cruelty of being compared to a little girl? Sounds legit.

No one’s dragging your name around, you’re just making an ass of yourself by conflating unflattering observations into “unsafe spaces”. Some friendly advice? People might stop pointing out you’re acting like a child if you stopped acting like one.

***********&&&&&&&&&&

Looks like you seem to be right on cue as well?

#148 Faron on 06.10.21 at 10:35 am

#142 Sail Away on 06.10.21 at 9:18 am
#127 the Jaguar on 06.09.21 at 10:15 pm
#134 BillyBob on 06.10.21 at 12:44 am

Loving the self-aggrandizing moralizing this morning. Kinda wears the make-up a bit thin on our bruised egos.

Careful observers will note that a ton of stuff sails past me that I disagree with (and yes, BillyBob I do think my ideas are “right”. It takes extreme cognitive dissonance to have ideas one thinks are “wrong” WTF). My commenting rate only skyrockets when utterly absurd/insensitive/far right/factually incorrect/cruel junk lands and then is defended. And that you three felt a need to yammer on about this, that BillyBob only seems to post now to say something about me makes it clear I’m landing punches, bruising that ego. Otherwise you would ignore me like you do TurnerNation and move on.

Move on

PS: if writing this makes me a 12y.o. girl — awesome. There’s a much brighter future for a 12y.o. than there is for a 50? 60? 70? something defending themselves in front of a crowd of strangers. Kudos to you and me. #winning

#149 Sail Away on 06.10.21 at 10:44 am

#145 Woke up this morning… on 06.10.21 at 9:42 am

I may smell your flowers as I walk or bike by. I may admire it. I may even give your wife suggestions!

———

Good luck. After 22 years, she’ll still cut meat against a metal platter with a beautiful, balanced, perfectly-maintained and razor-sharp Mac knife. Argh!

#150 Sail Away on 06.10.21 at 11:16 am

#148 Faron on 06.10.21 at 10:35 am

My commenting rate only skyrockets when utterly absurd/insensitive/far right/factually incorrect/cruel junk lands and then is defended.

———

Strawman. Take responsibility, man!

#151 willworkforpickles on 06.10.21 at 11:37 am

#144 NSNG
Fine …ok regarding message # 144…but well off the topic and point of my original post you started with.

#152 Faron on 06.10.21 at 12:06 pm

#150 Sail Away on 06.10.21 at 11:16 am

Responsibility for echoing the views of others and seeing evidence that shows your avitar has psychopathic tendencies? As far as I can tell, Sail Away is the only commenter thus accused by me and many others. So, sure.

You could also just tell us why you drew a parallel between statue removal and murderous hate crime rather than dodging and provoking (throwing an ink cloud) which seems to be your way of saying “okay, I messed up”.

#153 the jaguar on 06.10.21 at 12:22 pm

@ Sail Away. Sensitive? Hardly. Just read his insensitive remarks to Garth @ Post 55 on June 7th. Typical venom. Or earlier remarks about the ‘garbage’ spewed by me or Billybob. He has no ability to respectfully disagree. He’s on the attack nonstop. And now these veiled comments about the ‘bullies’. That’s a serious charge in todays Woke World. So go ahead and name them is all I am saying. Do as Pancho Villa did and wear you gun outside your pants for all the honest world to see. Stop whispering the ‘bully’ word if unable to provide the evidence. If I am a bully go ahead and provide the evidence of when that happened. Faron is supplying references from months gone by. He keeps a scorecard apparently.

#154 Sail Away on 06.10.21 at 12:41 pm

#152 Faron on 06.10.21 at 12:06 pm
#150 Sail Away on 06.10.21 at 11:16 am

Responsibility for echoing the views of others and seeing evidence that shows [1] your avitar [sic] has psychopathic tendencies? [2] As far as I can tell, Sail Away is the only commenter thus accused by me and many others. So, sure.

[3] You could also just tell us why you drew a parallel between statue removal and murderous hate crime rather than dodging and provoking

———

Trying to help you here, bud. From above:

[1] Demonizing/dehumanization
[2] Appeal to own tribe mentality
[3] Conjecture

As I’ve mentioned before, this is emotive and intellectually dishonest behaviour. Your comment is in lockstep with standard warmongering propaganda:

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0787/8/1/54

Be better. Heck, Be Best!

#155 Steven Rowlandson on 06.10.21 at 4:25 pm

Evidently the sur tax was not enough to deter high bids for real estate.