Too much, too fast

A survey by Merrill has found that 70% of Americans now own equities. Stocks. Funds. ETFs. Financial assets. The typical 401k (equivalent to our RRSP) is stuffed with liquid, publicly-traded, negotiable investment assets.

And here?

In 1991, 64% of us owned real estate. By 2016 that grew to 67.8%. And it has now touched 70%. Peak house.

US household debt has gone down in the last decade. Ours has soared. Now there’s every indication we beavs are on the cusp of a supernova real estate gasbag that will (a) eat the entire country and render seventy per cent of us landed gentry millionaires, or (b) blow up and end badly. Guts, spleens, mortgages everywhere.

How can there be middle ground, at this pace of events?

  • As forecast a few days ago, the GTA numbers have turned out to be epic. Scary. Historic. Sales of 15,652 properties in a single month, a 97% increase. Average property price is up 21.6%, to $1.1 million. Remember two months ago we were musing when the million-dollar mark would be hit? So quaint.
  • 416 is ridiculous. 905 is ludicrous. Sales in the burbs and little weensy hick cities surrounding the Big Smoke exploded 111% in March and prices jumped 31.4%. That was the most, ever.
  • Pollster Nik Nanos confirms the obvious – it’s FOMO fueling this rocket. His latest survey of consumer sentiment was taken just as Ontario went into a new month-long lockdown and as Covid was romping through BC, Saskatchewan and Quebec. It found 67% expect house prices to keep inflating. To put that number in context, the average has been 38% for the past 13 years, and it never before exceeded 60%. We are smitten. Obsessed. House lusty.
  • House prices have now outpaced appraised values. And that’s a problem. Blind auctions, bidding wars and delirious buyers have pushed sale prices past established market valuations. It means a growing number of people face a come-to-Jesus moment when they go to arrange financing and lenders balk to giving them enough to close the deal. Consequences of that are coming.
  • First-time homebuyers are officially pooched. The average price  (nationally) for entry-level digs is $433,000, says BMO, but given the typical income of newbies, the most they can afford with 5% down is a home selling for $248,000. In Toronto that’s about one-third of a garage. The average Canadian house value, by the way, is $678,000 which is 25% higher than a year ago – and during that time official inflation has been 1%.
  • Okay, so first-timers can’t buy. People who own homes can’t afford to sell them and repurchase. Fresh purchasers often can get financing because of bidding wars. Meanwhile sales are up a hundred per cent and prices are rising 12-15 times faster than the cost of living increase.

Conclusion: unsustainable. Impossible to continue. Irrational. Risk and danger.

The last time we had these conditions was in 1989. The market exploded over a couple of years. First-time buyers were shut out as a result. That fuel for the fire disappeared at the same time mortgage rates started to rise. Things collapsed. Prices were 32% lower within a year, and it took 16 more years for the average house to be worth what it had been in ’89.

Is there a catalyst for this to occur again?

Maybe. We’ll see. It could be a measure in the budget to tax speculators, punish investors or restrict mortgage credit. It might be rising interest rates as vaccines defeat the virus and the US economy explodes higher. It could be as simple as prices plumping to a point where even the most house-horny, desperate, FOMO-addled moister just gives up. Or it could be a withering of supply as existing homeowners realize it’s impossible to get back in after they’ve checked out.

In any case, current conditions cannot last. History tells us panic buying is a harbinger of collapse. Prices always shoot higher, faster just before the end. When a majority of people are absolutely convinced the party will never finish, it does. When average folk have no hesitation in swallowing excessive debt, risk is extreme.

So, kids, this isn’t my first rodeo. I kicked this dirt in 1989. And I know what’s coming.

About the picture: “This was the greatest Doberman of all time,” says William. “Champion Norry’s Dusky Shaitan (short name, Shai). My family’s champion show dog was a joyful companion for 14 years. My dad was a veterinarian so she enjoyed VIP care in his capable hands. The Oldsmobile 88 in the driveway, my bell-bottoms and Adidas all date the photo as a fond memory from 1972.”

179 comments ↓

#1 I always figure ... on 04.06.21 at 1:58 pm

once the first time buyer is out … stick a fork in it … it’s done … nobody can move up.

#2 Bob Rudolph on 04.06.21 at 2:02 pm

Seriously though, what isn’t overvalued at this point? Seems to me that we’ve got too much money out there chasing a return.

#3 Roial1 on 04.06.21 at 2:04 pm

The Dobie’s pretty, but I’ll stay in love with my Presa Canaria and mut.

#4 TurnerNation on 04.06.21 at 2:06 pm

-Incoming – New Green Deal reset. Remember, in March 2020 the old system was shut down. EVERY change since then is toward the New, global System.
Bank on it. I’d expect a severe recession 2022-2024 in Kanada.

“Globe says TD warns on jobs during green transition
The Globe and Mail reports in its Tuesday edition that three-quarters of the Canadians employed in oil and gas could lose their jobs as the country pursues ambitious climate targets, according to a new report from TD Economics”

———
-Checkpoints incoming?? Staffing level quotas pushing to be inacted. Quotas…check your history books.
Recall the chatter over local travel restrictions in Q2 and Supply Chain shortages in Q3?

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/top-docs-call-for-new-province-wide-stay-at-home-order/wcm/b6105984-4228-4b8f-af6a-ae5f9b5cc847/amp/?
“The doctors also call for fewer businesses to be deemed essential and more operations shut down.
They also want staffing levels at workplaces deemed essential be capped at 50% <—– and that capacity limits for customers be capped at 50%."

"They also want travel restrictions imposed on various regions of the province" <—–

———————————–

See above watch for for food, supply shortages? Even essentials are to be shut down further ^^ All famines are man-made (governments).
Control over our Feeding, Breeding and Movement/Travel is the global goal.

.Victoria is set to become the first state in Australia to introduce a tax on electric vehicles. From July 1, owners of fully electric cars in Victoria will pay 2.5 cents per kilometre and owners of hybrids will be slugged two cents per kilometre.Mar. 18, 2021

.Upcoming Liberal policy debates include high-speed rail, universal basic income, 'green new deal' "[ nationalpost.com]

.'Let's get rid of friggin' cows' says creator of plant-based 'bleeding burger'
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/08/lets-get-rid-of-friggin-cows-why-one-food-ceo-says-its-game-over-for-meat-aoe

.https://www.westonaprice.org/proposed-fda-rule-threatens-small-farms-food-businesses/
For foods that FDA lists as “high risk,” the proposed rule imposes extensive record-keeping requirements, including electronic spreadsheets, GPS coordinates of where the foods are grown, and the location, date and time that the food is harvested, cooled, packed, shipped, or used as an ingredient in another food.
The list of foods that FDA considers to be “high risk” includes soft and semi-soft cheeses, eggs, seafood, leafy greens, herbs, tomatoes, and more.

………

More on the Economic Shutdowns.

https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2021/04/numbers-stores-restaurants-covid-spread-ontario/

But provincial data continues to prove what many experts have long been saying: that struggling businesses like these and even people gathering socially are not the primary cause of rising case numbers, and thus shouldn't be the focus of Premier Doug Ford and his team's measures.

#5 The West on 04.06.21 at 2:07 pm

“In any case, current conditions cannot last. History tells us panic buying is a harbinger of collapse. Prices always shoot higher, faster just before the end. When a majority of people are absolutely convinced the party will never finish, it does. When average folk have no hesitation in swallowing excessive debt, risk is extreme.”

In social sciences this is referred to as an “Extinction Burst”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF_xdvn52As

#6 None on 04.06.21 at 2:10 pm

All this blows.

In hindsight, the smartest thing I could have done is buy the most house I could afford 5 years ago. Instead, I’ve been investing globally diversified index funds.

I’ve done well – along with picking up some cheap REITS this summer but geez, I always felt that not buying a house was a choice, and a smart one at that. Right now it feels like the opposite. I understand this may be the FIMO (Fear I Missed Out) and maybe I’ll be high fiving myself in a year but that’s exactly what I thought last year, and he one before, and the one before.

Anyway, the bull run of the last 5 years takes some sting out of it but he FIMO right now stings. It’s caused significant stress on my relationship and all for a stupid house. UGH.

#7 Bob Dog on 04.06.21 at 2:10 pm

Just turned down a job for $130K at a tech company because thats not enough to own a home in Canada. I just learned that EI is extended to November so I will continue to milk it till the bitter end and look for a job when I see affordable housing or the pogey runs out.

This is my FU to the government of canada and the financial terrorists running the bank of canada.

I encourage all renters that can afford it to milk EI to the end. My ethics went out the window with affordable housing.

#8 jimmy zhao on 04.06.21 at 2:13 pm

I think that Canadians with dual citizenship in Hong Kong will flee to Canada to escape the Chinese Communists.
They will add many billions of dollars to the Canadian economy and much of it will go into Real Estate.
Expect to see a further housing boom in Richmond BC.

#9 TN Fan on 04.06.21 at 2:14 pm

TurnerNation – looking forward to yet another one of your posts about how the leaders around the world wish to eliminate the tumour in the brain of society by putting a gun to the brain and pulling the trigger.

Cutting off the nose to spite the face is simply not graphic enough a parallel to what is happening.

#10 leebow on 04.06.21 at 2:23 pm

Lenders may stop lending altogether when they realize the amount of fraud that is ongoing. Google “Ontario mortgage broker”, click on any company and read reviews. Scary! This now becomes a public knowledge. People post about the workings of those agencies, fake T4s and declarations, extra fees they charge for forging documents, etc. It’s criminal stuff and eventually it will come to light.

The governments will be prompted to do something about it. But in this environment it is impossible to anticipate all consequences and outcomes of a policy. They may manage to cool it down without popping only by luck, not by design. The odds do not favour an orderly resolution.

#11 Original Alex on 04.06.21 at 2:24 pm

Happy not to be buying these days, that is for sure… But eventually, even after a crash, prices will come back up. and that market can stay irrational so long…

I know a couple families desperately trying to buy these days and striking out in bidding wars. Little do they know I am secretly cheering them not to win one…

#12 Shirl Clarts on 04.06.21 at 2:25 pm

The virus is not done with us yet, breaking daily case and hospitalization records here in BC.

But the economy wants to open back up. The parking lots of Costco, Home Depot, Canadian Tire, and Wal-Mart were packed yesterday with people carrying out stuff essential for their sanity, like plastic patio crap, and reno materials and tools. There was little safe distancing, and no occupancy limits.

Adrian’s on the tube saying… only travel if you need to. Well I guess that includes everyone.

It will get worse before it gets better.

#13 Millennial 1%er on 04.06.21 at 2:25 pm

The government doing something about it? Unlikely. Uncontrollable factors (inflation) crashing the housing market with no survivors? Yeah, more likely.

#14 BlogDog123 on 04.06.21 at 2:28 pm

This time there’s the mentality that 125,000+ immigrants are coming to the GTA every year, so their arrival and need for housing will keep the prices high forever and ever…

In 1989-1994 days: I remember that nasty recession around 90-92 timeframe when there was not much commercial activity going on, lots of new, empty industrial units not being leased…

#15 Matt on 04.06.21 at 2:31 pm

Nobody can time the housing market. People said housing market was overvalued in 2008 and every year since. If you had sold in 2008 and rented, you would have missed the 400% increase in home prices.

#16 Shamus on 04.06.21 at 2:35 pm

I’d like to think that there is a correction coming, but I’m sure that JT will give money as an election promise to save every & any homeowner that needs their mortgage saved, along with giving free energy upgrades under the Federal Government’s GREENER HOMES program that is about to be rolled out.

#17 VGRO and chill on 04.06.21 at 2:35 pm

Man this is messed up.

Right now at http://www.financialpost.com:

“Toronto home prices surge more than 20% as bubble debate heats up
Detached homes in the 905 area code sold for 31.4% more, an average of $1.32 million”

And right below that:

“Gruelling lockdown that never ends has Toronto businesses at the breaking point”

#18 UCC on 04.06.21 at 2:40 pm

What an noble looking dog. Now where is Felix? Here kitty, kitty…time for supper.

#19 T on 04.06.21 at 2:44 pm

In all fairness Garth
I recall like it was a hour ago. You nearly talked me out of getting a house in 2000. Seriously. I even read after the boom 2015.

If I would have taken that advise then. Well.

Seiously I get its bad but we are now 21 years into the crash melt whatever predictio.

All with the backdrop of a 5 year that has gone from top left of screen to bottom right. With zero end in sight.

Is the predictions no because you can’t compress the rates past zero? Nobody left to sell the appreciated home to with an ever lower monthly payment ala rates?

#20 Classical Liberal Millennial on 04.06.21 at 2:47 pm

“But this time, maybe it’s different.”

-people, convincing themselves that it’s different

#21 nlabixa on 04.06.21 at 2:48 pm

Why do homeowners can’t afford to sell then repurchase after? Does it have to do with additional borrowing to finance the repurchase?

#22 Hilroy on 04.06.21 at 2:49 pm

The Totalitarian Utopia is getting to the juicy bits.

The only way to afford your mortgage will be a longer work week. Two incomes , 12 hours a day , 6 days a week.

A State/employer co-operative will feed and educate your children. Having dinner with them on Sunday will be a reward.

You signed on the dotted line after all ….

#23 Brian Ripley on 04.06.21 at 2:50 pm

My Toronto housing charts are up:
http://www.chpc.biz/toronto-housing.html

FOMO 2.0 has been UNLEASHED

Total residential housing sales after zooming M/M in July 2020 have now blown past the 2Q 2016 highs creating a new historic high.

​Total residential inventory is 53% below the May 2013 high and total sales-to-listings produced a 148% absorption rate as buyers pushed detached, townhouse and condo prices up to new price peaks.

Absorption rates rose above 100% five times during the FOMO 1.0 hysteria in 2016-2017.

Res-Listings down 53% from MAY 2013 high
Res-Sales NEW PEAK SALES MAR 2021

Current Monthly Absorption Rate = 148%
Current Months of Inventory = 1

Toronto SF Detached Price
NEW PEAK PRICE MAR 2021
Up 145% in last 10 years

Toronto Townhouse Price
NEW PEAK PRICE MAR 2021
T-Houses are priced at 62% of SFDs
or 1 SFD = 1.6 Townhouses

Toronto Condo Price
NEW PEAK PRICE MAR 2021
Condos are priced at 48% of SFDs
or 1 SFD = 2.1 Condos

The “improvement” that sits on the land is a wasting asset. If serviced land is so valuable, shouldn’t the ratio be 1 house equals at least 3 townhouses or 4 condos?

#24 Hilroy on 04.06.21 at 2:53 pm

The Totalitarian Utopia is getting to the juicy bits.

The only way to afford your mortgage will be a longer work week. Two incomes , 12 hours a day , 6 days a week.

A State/employer co-operative will feed and educate your children. Having dinner with them on Sunday will be a reward.

“You signed the dotted line of your own volition …. “

#25 Dave on 04.06.21 at 2:53 pm

When is it coming….been waiting for over 10 years!!!!

WHEN?

#26 Basil Exposition on 04.06.21 at 2:56 pm

We shared the same path in 1989. We were a young newlywed couple with 10 percent down and a yearning to nest. Recall the new home sales trailers sitting on empty land with people lined up outside waiting for the opening. And prices rising steadily before a shovel hit the dirt. Realtors were rock stars driving BMW’s with first gen cell phones busily feeding the FOMO. Recall being told get in now or miss out forever. People will leave Hong Kong and everyone will move to Toronto was the typical pitch. After viewing an aging semi in a sketchy neighborhood at the top of our price range, we chose to drop out. Stayed in a basement suite in our parents home for another year, saved, and lucked out huge. Picked up a detached home in late 1991 after bidding on several homes listed under power of sale. Can’t say the same will play out again but it sure feels familiar. Our kids are in the same position today. They have good jobs and modest savings but have decided not to buy. Plus, they don’t want to live in the city anymore. The first time buyer is likely the first domino to fall. Thanks for the blog Garth. We read your column when we were young and my Son’s read your blog today. Cheers.

#27 T-Rev on 04.06.21 at 3:00 pm

Wife and I are midway through a mid-life reset and trying to navigate this craziness. Sold the rental condo, closed in March. Now looking to downsize the house. Crazy how much it’s up in the last year- about 15% maybe 20%. Realtor says to list for $1M. Problem is we’re really particular about what we want next, and so far haven’t seen anything we like. Can’t sell until we have a place to go next, so sitting on our hands for now. As you say, low inventory begets low inventory because we cant list until we buy; I’m sure other folks are in the same boat and it’s limiting supply.

But the important thing is everyone is healthy, employed, and I got 150km on the Harley last night. As part of my ride I zipped through the university and downtown areas here in Edmonton, and was pretty disheartened to see almost no one out and about on the second nicest day of the year so far. Covid has killed a way of life, shut a lot down, made people afraid to go out, and yet houses ahead by 15 points. Guess that’s why they’re ahead, if you can’t go out might as well nest until you can. Sad state of affairs.

#28 Stuck in NB on 04.06.21 at 3:00 pm

Percentage wise, RE is exploding across the country. But in absolute dollars, there are still pockets of affordability. In 506, prices have grown just like everywhere else, but since the base line was low, our price to income ratios are nowhere like ON. Can still find a decent place to live at <3x gross, with sub-2% mortgage, and 20 min from the nearest Costco. Lock?

#29 Tony on 04.06.21 at 3:01 pm

Any implication to the stock market in 89?

#30 Lunenburgeois on 04.06.21 at 3:02 pm

I am not a defender of house buying under the current circumstances by no means however, in particular single family houses in Canada still look very cheap compared to many developed countries. Obviously we do not have the population density that Europe has but if we consider only a fraction of the country is developable (may change with global warming over next couple of hundred years) and if we take into account that immigration is bringing lots of new people (close to 1% of population increase per year just from newcomers) I think this fire may not go out for a while. Interest rates are for sure a big break on house sales and there may not be enough increase for 2 more years, which can push house prices up another 20-30%. Crazy but true.

#31 Stuck in NB on 04.06.21 at 3:25 pm

@23: “Toronto SF Detached Price
NEW PEAK PRICE MAR 2021
Up 145% in last 10 years”

My TFSA is up 155% vs a year ago, thanks to Donnie and Joe

#32 alexinvestor on 04.06.21 at 3:31 pm

Problem is that government debt is bad mostly everywhere, so rates cannot go up materially. They cannot cut spending either. Increased taxes on other investment avenues (ie stocks) will mean that money will go into RE. Budget items like punishing speculators, or temporary taxes are relatively meaningless because these can be planned around. Something that is truly meaningful (ie capital taxes on RE) cannot be implement because it would be deeply unpopular in a democracy that values house ownership.

Where does this leave the RE market ? Maybe stagnant, but unlikely to be a deep drop.

#33 Guelph Guru on 04.06.21 at 3:34 pm

In Guelph, have seen good houses rise from 450s to 1.2 mil+ in less than a decade. Lot’s of new condo’s and new constructions. Wonder who is planning to come stay. Large many empty right now.
The general narrative is that CAD has lost 50% so the asset has gone up by 50%. Sounds logical. For all we know these prices are here to stay or a small 15% correction as mentioned here sometime back. It may be different this time.
Have not witnessed the 1989 rodeo. So would be fun to watch one live.

#34 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:34 pm

What’s the plural of Doberman?
Dobermans, Dobermen?
Always liked their clean athletic bodies.
They got lumped in with the bit bulls about 20 years back.
Don’t see many of them any more.
“The Boys of Brazil” is a classic.

#35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm

#8 jimmy zhao on 04.06.21 at 2:13 pm
I think that Canadians with dual citizenship in Hong Kong will flee to Canada to escape the Chinese Communists.
They will add many billions of dollars to the Canadian economy and much of it will go into Real Estate.
Expect to see a further housing boom in Richmond BC.
——————-
My source in HongKong is telling me that about 50 Billion has already left for Canada.
The money goes first and then come the bodies.
I know I’m being selfish by saying “bring it on”.
I like Chinese food, and always look for an opportunity to hone my Mandarin.

#36 KNOW IT ALL on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm

Let’ er rip a good one.
The best way to learn is the hard way.

#37 Dan in Nanaimo on 04.06.21 at 3:45 pm

Mr. Turner, exactly how do you think this phase of the delusional rodeo concludes ?

Bull keeps on raging or bull gets taken down ?

Just curious since the FED and CB’s can’t seem to stop feed the raging bull…

#38 FerrisWheel on 04.06.21 at 3:46 pm

#6. I am in the exact same situation but am definitely much older (late 50s). When I buy my first house in the next few months, it surely sill be the trigger for a housing crash

#39 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:56 pm

“Not my first Rodeo”
Garth, you’re sounding like Tom Selleck,
pushing reverse mortgages on CNN.

#40 Old Ron on 04.06.21 at 3:57 pm

The biggest market drivers are Interest Rates and Investors. When an asset like real estate appreciates at 16% in a month, (Toronto March) every spec with a pulse is in the game.

The Rates have never recovered from the 2008 stock market crash. Then in 2020 the B of C started buying every Bond on the market which drove the rates to Zero.

#41 When the Whip Comes Down on 04.06.21 at 4:00 pm

I have been wondering about appraisals and when or if these will ever come in different from the accepted offer price. At least in Vancouver/victoria they come in miraculously at or within a few percentage points of the offer. It’s THE main thing I was most concerned about going into the bidding process. I have been told it shouldn’t be a concern by brokers and bankers alike, at least not at present. I am skeptical every time they say this but they haven’t changed their tune yet.

#42 SoggyShorts on 04.06.21 at 4:01 pm

#111 Stone on 04.06.21 at 8:08 am

Apparently. Look where it got you. An inability to balance and diversify your investments because of capital gains tax implications. Now, you’re SOL while others outpace you. But off course, you’re the poor victim.

Worst than being cheap and stingy, you don’t actually take counsel from others. That’s the most detrimental piece. It talks to a lack of trust. How many opportunities have slipped through your fingers as a result?

Lastly, I like how you value what others do based on your own perception. You seem to think everyone else should be paid sweatshop wages but you should get top dollar and top dollar value. Laughable and shameful all at once.

*******************************
1. My returns since I started are better than even your fake ones, and proven. Being able to understand that it would be a net loss changing my PF to the much higher risk one you suggested for a few basis points at the cost of tens of thousands in taxes isn’t being a victim, how does that even track in your mind?
2. Why don’t you buy Mutual funds and have them managed by investors group for 3%? Are you too “cheap and stingy”? or perhaps being able to judge the value of something is a good thing?
3. is $40 per hour for basic office work “sweatshop wages” now? I mean that’s significantly more than the national average so is Canada >50% sweatshops?

Finally, it sounds like you’re a little triggered, does everyone calling BS on your imaginary PF invade your safe space?
I’m not surprised that you’re lashing out lately- only someone very fragile would come here for the sole purpose of lying to others as a means to inflate their ego. Super pathetic dude.

#43 renter in Surrey on 04.06.21 at 4:02 pm

THs in Fraser Valley are around $750K-$850K now.

I will not be surprised if they are $1.5mil+ within next 3 years.

#44 The West on 04.06.21 at 4:03 pm

#7 Bob Dog

Yes! You’re understanding the true power the establishment holds over you. Quit paying taxes. Quit grinding their system of enslavement forward.

Simply stop the machine from operating

#45 S.Bby on 04.06.21 at 4:05 pm

#34 What’s the plural of Doberman?

Sox would call them Doberpersons

#46 Dave on 04.06.21 at 4:10 pm

You seem to ignore the fact that it is much easier to hide and shift money around these days. Canada has some of the most lax money laundering of any developed country. It is very easy to get citizenship here and very easy to send money for others to buy. This is happening in Canada’s big cities.

#47 Bob the Cat on 04.06.21 at 4:14 pm

#25 Dave on 04.06.21 at 2:53 pm

Never. The govts learn from their mistakes. Whipping out the wealth or even worse having a negative GDP growth will make everyone’s lives worse. So expect more incentives for new buyers, like using more RRSP money and/or having an interest free 2-300k loan from the govt or any dumb things like that. The housing market is too bit to let it fail. Too many Canadians depend on it (70% is it?). Of course we might see some steps taken by the policy makers to calm down the spirits, but under no circumstances they will pop the bubble.

#48 What Goes Up...Must stay up on 04.06.21 at 4:15 pm

GTA families I know that can afford it are hoarding homes for various reasons including to pass on to their children in the future.

#49 Ustabe on 04.06.21 at 4:15 pm

On another note:

The IMF upgrades Canada’s growth outlook from 3.6% to 5%…the most among advanced economies.

Started slow but…Canada is now third in the G20 for % of population with Covid vaccinations despite the delays in receiving same.

6 of the 14 tugs that freed that Evergreen freighter were of Canadian design, Vancouver exactly.

CN and CP both report shipping record grain volumes in March despite all that is going on.

Lastly I have finished power raking, core aerating and spring over seeding my lawns. However the aerator machine just about killed me, too heavy and bulky for a 70+ year old man. So another job I will now be sending out for someone younger to do, creating employment and income for some entrepreneur out there. Doing my part.

Don’t know what my YTD returns are, don’t care either. I’ve got daffodils to sit beside, neighbours to wave to and think about things like you know Monopoly, the game? Without collecting $200 each time you pass GO, it doesn’t work…so a game designed to teach you about capitalism has UBI built in from the start. Why is that I wonder.

#50 Dolce Vita on 04.06.21 at 4:16 pm

#12 Shirl Clarts

Eek

“Japanese variant SOS: “It resists the vaccine and puts intensive care at risk”
-by Immunologists that sequenced it in Tokyo [a few days ago]

https://www.lastampa.it/topnews/primo-piano/2021/04/05/news/sos-variante-giapponese-resiste-al-vaccino-e-mette-a-rischio-le-terapie-intensive-1.40114130

Of course, no problemo ’cause you know the Olympics are in 109 days and who wants to rain on the highest cost JOCK FEST on Planet Earth, esp. the host country:

https://www.huffingtonpost.it/entry/lallerta-arriva-dal-giappone-nuova-variante-riduce-efficacia-vaccini_it_606adf9dc5b68872efe8e40c?ncid=tweetlnkithpmg00000001

…speaking of Rodeo.

———————

I still hate RE
Tulipmania Cdn style
No Gov intervention, let it all blow up on its own

———————

Apr 5

Canada doses received from Manufacturer, 8M (1.5M unused):

European Union Pfizer, Moderna = 7.5M (94%)
India AstraZeneca = 0.5M (6%)
Cheques in the mail since Mar 18 VAX HOG USA AstraZeneca = 0

Find your own MISINFORMATION web site to verify, you know like Gov Canada and CTV’s Vax Tracker.

#51 Dolce Vita on 04.06.21 at 4:23 pm

#1 I always figure …

SO correct.

#52 House Crash No Way on 04.06.21 at 4:24 pm

There is too much money out there. People are way richer than the polls tell us. People know nothing about investing in the stock market so they naturally gravitate to property. There is so much money on the sidelines that at the first sign of property depreciation, houses will be snatched up again to reduce supply and increase price again. Just because you’re poor or your parents are poor, don’t think everyone else and their parents are poor too!

#53 Leftover on 04.06.21 at 4:24 pm

Property price inflation isn’t unique to Canada as massive Covid-related credit expansion and supply contraction has led to house prices going up all over the world.

What’s uniquely Canadian is how vulnerable we’ve become to household debt. We’re nearly 50% higher than our peers in the USA and the UK, while more than double Germany.

https://twitter.com/PlanMaestro/status/1378733926286569473

First time buyers are the most exposed (Boomer home owners can afford to lose equity) so restricting credit is the most effective and likely thing to happen in the coming months. It can also be done surreptitiously. Less mortgage bond purchases by the BoC and higher down payment requirements come to mind.

Structural changes too; time to force the real estate industry to take responsibility by making real time data freely available and ending blind auctions.

The Liberals have lost the youth vote this cycle to the NDP/Greens anyway, so they’ll concentrate on policies that don’t introduce new taxes on the housing market, thus shoring up support among the 70% of us that own a house already.

They know it can’t go on and they also know just how bad it could get. Better to let the air out than stick a knife in it.

#54 NSNG on 04.06.21 at 4:25 pm

#34 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:34 pm

What’s the plural of Doberman?

Whatever they want it to be.

#55 What is Even Happening? on 04.06.21 at 4:31 pm

@#6 None

“All this blows.

In hindsight, the smartest thing I could have done is buy the most house I could afford 5 years ago. Instead, I’ve been investing globally diversified index funds.

I’ve done well – along with picking up some cheap REITS this summer but geez, I always felt that not buying a house was a choice, and a smart one at that. Right now it feels like the opposite. I understand this may be the FIMO (Fear I Missed Out) and maybe I’ll be high fiving myself in a year but that’s exactly what I thought last year, and he one before, and the one before.

Anyway, the bull run of the last 5 years takes some sting out of it but he FIMO right now stings. It’s caused significant stress on my relationship and all for a stupid house. UGH.”

__________

None, I hear you. I agree it’s definitely FIMO. Remind you and your partner of the following:

Think about the opportunities you’ve gained from not buying the most house you could afford: more freedom, peace of mind, $$$ to travel, invest, start a business, go back to school, help out friends/family etc. Or just having “FU $”! And think about problems you don’t have like bad neighbours, house repairs, legal issues etc.

I mean, how do you know that the “most house you would have bought” back in 2015 would have been your dream home? I’m a lawyer that has seen disputes between neighbours, against contractors, insurers, Tarion etc. so I see the headaches no one else sees behind the “dream home”.

So, if you have FIMO, maybe it’s time for you and your partner to examine your lives and see what you think you’re missing. Because the answer isn’t in the past, and it usually just isn’t more $$$. It’s in how happy you are now with the opportunities your extra money has given you. Good luck.

#56 Sail Away on 04.06.21 at 4:46 pm

#34 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:34 pm

What’s the plural of Doberman?

——–

Home security squared.

#57 Sail Away on 04.06.21 at 4:49 pm

FYI, from Wikipedia:

“Dobermanns were first bred in the 1880s by Karl Friedrich Louis Dobermann in Apolda, Thuringia, Germany, a tax collector who ran the Apolda dog pound. With access to dogs of many breeds, he got the idea to create a breed that would be ideal for protecting him. He set out to breed a new type of dog that would exhibit impressive stamina, strength, and intelligence.”

#58 The Woosh on 04.06.21 at 4:55 pm

#42 SoggyShorts on 04.06.21 at 4:01 pm
#111 Stone on 04.06.21 at 8:08 am

Apparently. Look where it got you. An inability to balance and diversify your investments because of capital gains tax implications. Now, you’re SOL while others outpace you. But off course, you’re the poor victim.

Worst than being cheap and stingy, you don’t actually take counsel from others. That’s the most detrimental piece. It talks to a lack of trust. How many opportunities have slipped through your fingers as a result?

Lastly, I like how you value what others do based on your own perception. You seem to think everyone else should be paid sweatshop wages but you should get top dollar and top dollar value. Laughable and shameful all at once.

*******************************
1. My returns since I started are better than even your fake ones, and proven. Being able to understand that it would be a net loss changing my PF to the much higher risk one you suggested for a few basis points at the cost of tens of thousands in taxes isn’t being a victim, how does that even track in your mind?
2. Why don’t you buy Mutual funds and have them managed by investors group for 3%? Are you too “cheap and stingy”? or perhaps being able to judge the value of something is a good thing?
3. is $40 per hour for basic office work “sweatshop wages” now? I mean that’s significantly more than the national average so is Canada >50% sweatshops?

Finally, it sounds like you’re a little triggered, does everyone calling BS on your imaginary PF invade your safe space?
I’m not surprised that you’re lashing out lately- only someone very fragile would come here for the sole purpose of lying to others as a means to inflate their ego. Super pathetic dude.

————————————-

Oh Soggy…you might want to slow it down a bit and put it back in your pants. We’ve all seen it at this point and it’s looking pretty small. While you’re at it, wipe the foam from your lips. Not very attractive by any measure.

#59 wallflower on 04.06.21 at 4:57 pm

#35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm

The Hong Kong people speak Cantonese.
Not Mandarin.

#60 Stone on 04.06.21 at 4:57 pm

A survey by Merrill has found that 70% of Americans now own equities. Stocks. Funds. ETFs. Financial assets. The typical 401k (equivalent to our RRSP) is stuffed with liquid, publicly-traded, negotiable investment assets.

———

I’m having an existential crisis. Am I an American or a Canadian? Apparently, if you look at my assets, mainly being a balanced and diversified investment portfolio, I’m an American. On the other hand, my passports say otherwise. Passports, I say. Maybe that makes me an international spy instead. Or maybe I’m just a dude with a pitchfork turning his compost heap in the backyard. Is that really a thing? Or maybe I’m an international spy who also turns his compost. Either way, my B&D is now sitting at 9.81% ytd.

Also, take a look at this. The digital currency future has arrived and it is frightening. That’s very TurnerNationesque, don’t you think? Lol.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-creates-its-own-digital-currency-a-first-for-major-economy-11617634118

#61 Billy Buoy on 04.06.21 at 5:00 pm

I think we saw this in Japan before…

Cue up the Payolas tune.

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/04/06/bank-of-canada-holdings-government-of-canada-bonds-rise-to-40-percent-total-outstanding-fed-a-saint-in-comparison-taper-on-table/

#62 Sail Away on 04.06.21 at 5:01 pm

Apropos of nothing, I get satisfaction from a dozen Garry Oak trees planted 10-14 years ago, some grown directly from acorns. Hardy trees. Our son at 11 mowed two of them to the ground, but they recovered and are all between 6-15′ now.

They can only be transplanted by digging out the very long (4′ for a 4′ tree, in some cases) taproot, so once they’re in, they’re in.

The deer would trash them with antler rubbing every fall until our neighbour gave us the trick- drive a 4′ long rebar directly next to the trunk. Deer don’t like their antlers touching metal.

#63 Looking up on 04.06.21 at 5:08 pm

35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm
#8 jimmy zhao on 04.06.21 at 2:13 pm
I think that Canadians with dual citizenship in Hong Kong will flee to Canada to escape the Chinese Communists.
They will add many billions of dollars to the Canadian economy and much of it will go into Real Estate.
Expect to see a further housing boom in Richmond BC.
——————-
My source in HongKong is telling me that about 50 Billion has already left for Canada.
The money goes first and then come the bodies.
I know I’m being selfish by saying “bring it on”.
I like Chinese food, and always look for an opportunity to hone my Mandarin.

———-

In Hong Kong they speak Cantonese not Mandarin.

#64 Editrix on 04.06.21 at 5:16 pm

There was an article in The Star in the early 90s (I tried to find it in their archive and couldn’t trace it, sorry) about a young couple who bought one of the townhouses on Walmer Road just below Davenport. It was sold to them for about half the price of what the neighbours had paid when they were built in the late 80s. The neighbours were grumbling.

Betcha we’ll be seeing a lot of stories like this in the next couple of years.

#65 Howard on 04.06.21 at 5:16 pm

I actually hope the Liberals provide more demand-side stimulus in the budget.

I now have a morbid curiosity to see just how high this can go.

Can Vancouver take out Hong Kong for top spot on the unaffordability list?

#66 Stone on 04.06.21 at 5:17 pm

#42 SoggyShorts on 04.06.21 at 4:01 pm
#111 Stone on 04.06.21 at 8:08 am

Apparently. Look where it got you. An inability to balance and diversify your investments because of capital gains tax implications. Now, you’re SOL while others outpace you. But off course, you’re the poor victim.

Worst than being cheap and stingy, you don’t actually take counsel from others. That’s the most detrimental piece. It talks to a lack of trust. How many opportunities have slipped through your fingers as a result?

Lastly, I like how you value what others do based on your own perception. You seem to think everyone else should be paid sweatshop wages but you should get top dollar and top dollar value. Laughable and shameful all at once.

*******************************
1. My returns since I started are better than even your fake ones, and proven. Being able to understand that it would be a net loss changing my PF to the much higher risk one you suggested for a few basis points at the cost of tens of thousands in taxes isn’t being a victim, how does that even track in your mind?
2. Why don’t you buy Mutual funds and have them managed by investors group for 3%? Are you too “cheap and stingy”? or perhaps being able to judge the value of something is a good thing?
3. is $40 per hour for basic office work “sweatshop wages” now? I mean that’s significantly more than the national average so is Canada >50% sweatshops?

Finally, it sounds like you’re a little triggered, does everyone calling BS on your imaginary PF invade your safe space?
I’m not surprised that you’re lashing out lately- only someone very fragile would come here for the sole purpose of lying to others as a means to inflate their ego. Super pathetic dude.

———

Are you daft? Re-read what you wrote and tell me who’s triggered. I just confirmed you’re cheap and stingy and you expect everyone to hand you things on a silver platter without properly compensating them. And I did it only after you acknowledged it yourself. Lol.

#67 AM in MN on 04.06.21 at 5:18 pm

The difference this time compared to ’89 is a wall of money about to flood over from HK & China once travel opens up again.

New condo construction in Vancouver never took a breather. 30 – 60 storey towers in what was once shopping mall parking lots in the suburbs. Hundreds of these planned, especially near the Skytrain Stations.

When you add that to the necessary currency devaluation over the next decade or so, not hard to see prices, as measured in C$, holding up or rising.

This will gut the wage earners and lower middle classes, but that’s always the case with money printing and government control.

#68 Sail Away on 04.06.21 at 5:19 pm

#111 Stone on 04.06.21 at 8:08 am

Worst than being cheap and stingy, you [SoggyShorts] don’t actually take counsel from others.

———

He just doesn’t take counsel from you. Probably mostly because you’re crass, indecorous and sour. Oh, and there’s the whole lying thing.

#69 Reximus on 04.06.21 at 5:20 pm

“As forecast a few days ago, the GTA numbers have turned out to be epic. Scary. Historic. Sales of 15,652 properties in a single month, a 97% increase.”

I fail to see how a nice level of turnover is so scary. Homes are being sold and many of those sellers are now buyers, buying somewhere else. So each new sale is really two sales and some of the population is mobilizing to fresher pastures…what’s so wrong about that? And one main reason why the avg 1mm price was eclipsed is that a lot more high value properties have started to move after that segment had been pretty quiet for a good while.

that said I would not have bet a year ago that property prices would come under any real upward pressure during a pandemic!

#70 Howard on 04.06.21 at 5:21 pm

#53 Leftover on 04.06.21 at 4:24 pm

The Liberals have lost the youth vote this cycle to the NDP/Greens anyway, so they’ll concentrate on policies that don’t introduce new taxes on the housing market, thus shoring up support among the 70% of us that own a house already.

———————————-

If Millennials and Gen-Z ever wake up from their torpor and come out en masse to vote their interests, the Liberals by rights and logic should be in the single digits among that age cohort.

#71 espressobob on 04.06.21 at 5:23 pm

The whole idea of owning a house was to get married and raise a family…some time ago.

The purpose of profit was done by those in the biz, like developers and bankers.

Today it’s FOMO, flipping, and a whole new breed of developers and bankers preying on ignorance.

Funny….

#72 Oakville Rocks! on 04.06.21 at 5:25 pm

Beautiful dog but lets face it, Dobermans are the Bond villains of the dog world. Disney is not going to remake Benji or Lady & the Tramp and cast a doberman as lead. No one is shopping 101 Dobermans as we speak.

The 70’s & Dobermans reminds me of my days delivering the newspaper in Burlington. There was this beautiful house on a courtyard off of Lakeshore drive, lovely views of Lake Ontario. The house was behind a big black wrought iron gate and they had a Doberman. Although there was a mailbox outside the gate the owner insisted I drop his paper at the front door. The door was 25 – 30 paces from the gate. It was a 50/50 proposition as to whether the doberman was loose on the grounds. I think the owner just enjoyed watching that dog chase me. The dog never got me but he did get my paper bag a couple of times. Not sure if the dog hated me or just objected to the fact that I was delivering the Toronto Star.

All in all, the only time I was bitten – it was a shih-tzu, the very definition of ankle biter.

#73 BC Doc on 04.06.21 at 5:26 pm

Real estate and equities are both marked by irrational exuberance while fixed income yields are artificially depressed by the hidden hand of the US Federal Reserve. As a value investor, I am hoping it’s not too long before the major asset categories reprice and trade a discount.

#74 The Woosh on 04.06.21 at 5:26 pm

#57 Sail Away on 04.06.21 at 4:49 pm
FYI, from Wikipedia:

“Dobermanns were first bred in the 1880s by Karl Friedrich Louis Dobermann in Apolda, Thuringia, Germany, a tax collector who ran the Apolda dog pound. With access to dogs of many breeds, he got the idea to create a breed that would be ideal for protecting him. He set out to breed a new type of dog that would exhibit impressive stamina, strength, and intelligence.”

—————————————————

I think i just had a Cliff Claven moment. Sam…beer me!

#75 RyYYZ on 04.06.21 at 5:26 pm

#7 Bob Dog on 04.06.21 at 2:10 pm
Just turned down a job for $130K at a tech company because thats not enough to own a home in Canada. I just learned that EI is extended to November so I will continue to milk it till the bitter end and look for a job when I see affordable housing or the pogey runs out.

This is my FU to the government of canada and the financial terrorists running the bank of canada.
===================================
Look, if you want to milk the system pulling pogey, that’s fine – just be honest about it. I’ve done it, when I was younger, I’m not particularly proud or ashamed of it.
But it’s not an “F U” to the government, it’s an FU to the rest of us that are still working and paying taxes. IMO, of course. YMMV.

#76 Planetgoofy on 04.06.21 at 5:27 pm

The average Canadian house value, by the way, is $678,000 which is 25% higher than a year ago – and during that time official inflation has been 1%.
———————————————
Garth 1% is a load. Everything is way up from groceries to logs. I was going to buy a large steel building 6 and months later the manufacture raised prices 3 times now up 30%.
Developing land and putting in city services cost huge and the gov takes a ton of tax on every move we make.
As a builder developer houses are not crazy for the most part.
Inflated everything makes them worth more.
My Industrial lot just outside the small west coast city assessment is $160k and I just got a call from a relator and an offer of $1.2mil from an RV dealership. Also partly cause there’s nothing left to be had.
I never sell. My stuffs worth many mils now…Cash is trash in my view. I get it and I buy backhoes equipment whatever makes me more dough.
Housing IMHO is just reflecting inflation that is real and present. Thanks Socks ya fricken idiot..
Our kids will pay for this and yes mine cant afford to buy. Good thing I’ve got that covered.

#77 Penny Henny on 04.06.21 at 5:29 pm

#33 Guelph Guru on 04.06.21 at 3:34 pm
Have not witnessed the 1989 rodeo. So would be fun to watch one live.
//////////////

I may be wrong but I don’t think the Isuzu Rodeo was sold in Canada until 1991. (Former Isuzu salesman, Joe Isuzu)

#78 Planetgoofy on 04.06.21 at 5:51 pm

#60 Stone
Also, take a look at this. The digital currency future has arrived and it is frightening. That’s very TurnerNationesque, don’t you think? Lol.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-creates-its-own-digital-currency-a-first-for-major-economy-11617634118
————————————————–
What you thought of what you had left of your privacy which is diddly, this is the end. Turn key control is at their hands. If people think otherwise…you need to get checked out.

#79 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.06.21 at 5:52 pm

@#35 Ponzie Patter

“My source in HongKong is telling me that about 50 Billion has already left for Canada.”

+++

Old News.
Fintrac has monitored $46.5 billion moved in the past 6 months from HK to Canuckda.
The average hk person has 3 mil with the upper class holding 10- 15 mil.
Even if the housing implodes the HK money may stave off the impending price collapse….

Until they realize that Canada taxes unlike HK.
The published tax scam court cases out here have been quite inventive.
Canada Revenue better hire a few thousand Cantonese speaking auditors to handle the tsunami.

#80 devore on 04.06.21 at 5:56 pm

#35

I like Chinese food, and always look for an opportunity to hone my Mandarin.

The only Mandarin you’re likely to hear in Hong Kong is from Chinese tourists and those catering to them.

#81 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 6:01 pm

#49 Ustabe on 04.06.21 at 4:15 pm
On another note:

The IMF upgrades Canada’s growth outlook from 3.6% to 5%…the most among advanced economies.

Started slow but…Canada is now third in the G20 for % of population with Covid vaccinations despite the delays in receiving same.

6 of the 14 tugs that freed that Evergreen freighter were of Canadian design, Vancouver exactly.

CN and CP both report shipping record grain volumes in March despite all that is going on.
——————
As I said before:
The roaring 20s are coming.
Just hope it does not end in a depression again.
In any case, my lovely wife and I are polishing our dancing shoes.

#82 KLNR on 04.06.21 at 6:01 pm

@#25 Dave on 04.06.21 at 2:53 pm
When is it coming….been waiting for over 10 years!!!!

WHEN?

only 10 eh?
folks have been predicting a huge crash since 2000 when the worlds tech was going to implode lol.

maybe a correction happens this year, maybe not.

#83 Flop... on 04.06.21 at 6:02 pm

Well, the handbags and hair-pulling has been going on for about a week now…

M46BC

#84 Bob The Cat on 04.06.21 at 6:02 pm

If you think Toronto is unaffordable now, you wait and see.
I totally agree with the guy.
https://youtu.be/i_PFn-1SFgY
A sane view on the reality.

#85 WTF on 04.06.21 at 6:09 pm

Prediction: We need an external event to bring this lunacy to heel cause PM Perfect and his Polyglot sidekick are clueless. We will hear grave pronouncements like “monitor, close eye, concerned” However ,The Gruesome Twosome aren’t gonna do anything substantive, nada.

Meanwhile the “independent” CB Gov AKA the Tiffenator will maintain his burbling about keeping interest rates low for the next 5 years……..continuing to pour gasoline on the bonfire

The Cons are scared of their own shadow and the NDP are insane.

Screwed.

#86 Shawn on 04.06.21 at 6:15 pm

So what financial instrument can one use to short the Canadian housing market like in that movie The Big Short?

#87 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 6:19 pm

#57 Sail Away on 04.06.21 at 4:49 pm
FYI, from Wikipedia:

“Dobermanns were first bred in the 1880s by Karl Friedrich Louis Dobermann in Apolda, Thuringia, Germany, a tax collector who ran the Apolda dog pound. With access to dogs of many breeds, he got the idea to create a breed that would be ideal for protecting him. He
set out to breed a new type of dog that would exhibit impressive stamina, strength, and intelligence.”
—————–
As I said, “The Boys in Brazil” liked them.
And Rottweilers.

#88 Reximus on 04.06.21 at 6:22 pm

I assume that for many now, a starter home is a 650k 1 bedroom condo. I guess that means a lot of 1 child families in the future.

Many anthropological-scientists have postulated that global population must slow to the 1 child per couple level for a while to avert a collapse of the world’s ability to sustain human life. So maybe 1 bed condos are the world’s best hope.

Do your duty for humanity and buy a one bed condo.

Yours truly, God

#89 Armpit on 04.06.21 at 6:23 pm

Couple I mentioned earlier last week, went house horny after being told by realtor they could get more than $450,000 for their small house in the Niagara area. All they have to do is sign with the agent for two weeks…no conditions to sell if they don’t want.

They got excited. Went house shopping two hours away in a rural area and purchased one for under $400,000. Needs work, but are banking on their sale to cover renovations.

Their house got listed. Within a week, blind offers came in and they sold for $529,000 . $79,000 over listing. Sale is to close after the BUDGET.

Everyone is happy…..

…. For now.

#90 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 6:25 pm

#59 wallflower on 04.06.21 at 4:57 pm
#35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm

The Hong Kong people speak Cantonese.
Not Mandarin.
————–
Good try.
The official language in Hong Kong now is Mandarin.
Cantonese is just a dialect.

#91 The real Kip (Ret) on 04.06.21 at 6:30 pm

You reap what you sow.

$25-trillion in CB stimulus buys a lot of houses, boats and stocks. Have you seen the price of an F-150 lately?

#92 The Official Office of Lies, Delusion, Bitterness & Mental Illness Palm Beach, Florida on 04.06.21 at 6:42 pm

Even back then in 1989 there was lots of talk about specuvestors but nothing ever done about it. There has to be a replay because it is the only way for a reset, which is desperately needed. Absent a number of world events and government interventions things would have corrected long ago and never got this far out of hand. Now some people gonna get a hurt real good. That is bad. Just like back then.

#93 under the radar on 04.06.21 at 6:43 pm

“The last time we had these conditions was in 1989. The market exploded over a couple of years. First-time buyers were shut out as a result. That fuel for the fire disappeared at the same time mortgage rates started to rise. Things collapsed. Prices were 32% lower within a year, and it took 16 more years for the average house to be worth what it had been in ’89”

I kicked the same dirt and 5 year money was 12% in 89.

That didn’t look so bad, after being 19%. – Garth

#94 Planetgoofy on 04.06.21 at 6:52 pm

#86 Shawn on 04.06.21 at 6:15 pm
So what financial instrument can one use to short the Canadian housing market like in that movie The Big Short?
—————————————–
So what financial instrument can one use to short the Canadian housing market like in that movie The Big Short?
I saw that coming way back warned friends and fam and no one believed me, until a few of them lost their homes..
Bill Black and I got it.
It was an easy call as there was mega fraud in the US.
Everyone was in on it. If you could fog a mirror you got a mortgage. Bogus loans buried ect. We are not even close to that. Shorting the Canuckle head market will break you.
I read The Big Short from Burry when it came out.
I’m very fortunate to be good at accessing these situations. Calling for a housing market crash is a fools errand.
If you want to kill yourself…then short some REITs with leverage.
Cheers

#95 Parsonage on 04.06.21 at 6:54 pm

Harbinger of what’s to come? Patience! I remember 1989 also. Of course accidents do happen: https://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/Kelowna/Evacuations_underway_as_firefighters_battle_blaze_at_Kelowna_construction_site/

#96 NoName on 04.06.21 at 6:59 pm

#83 Flop… on 04.06.21 at 6:02 pm
Well, the handbags and hair-pulling has been going on for about a week now…

M46BC

All that estrogen vasted…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jocbx0h1LqA

#97 Concerned Citizen on 04.06.21 at 7:00 pm

2000: Dot Com Bubble
2007: Housing Bubble
2021: Everything Bubble

You would think that the central banks would have learned their lesson after 2000 and 2007 and stopped blowing bubbles. But no, instead they blew the biggest bubble of them all, and have implemented polices (money printing to buy assets) to not only prevent it from popping, but to keep inflating it ever higher.

Everyone is saying this can’t last. Well, why not? Isn’t hyper-inflating asset prices just what the central banks want? With asset prices much higher than pre-COVID times, why are central banks still pumping trillions into the markets? They could care less if an entire generation can’t afford a home or that real inflation is well in excess of their supposed 2% target. Their self-appointed task is evidently to hyper-inflate asset prices for already wealthy people. It’s total regulatory capture.

I too share a morbid curiosity to see just how high they’ll push it. Stocks are already more expensive than the Dot Com Bubble, and readers of this blog know where housing is. Can we get housing prices to 10 times gross income nationally? 15? 20? We can’t wait to find out how far you’ll go with the asset price “stimulus”, Tiffster!

#98 A J on 04.06.21 at 7:01 pm

Here’s what’s saving first time buyers…their parents. The parents who are cashing out and leaving the city/burbs for far flung places like cottage country. Every single person I know is moving right now. The money is flowing between buyers and sellers. If you aren’t in, your parents can pitch you some money as they head for cheaper pastures. It’s the perfect example of rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. Real estate is becoming something owned by the rich. This isn’t uncommon is many places around the world. Do I want to see it happen here? No, because obviously housing should be accessible to all. But the money being created right now isn’t going to just disappear. People will gift it to their kids, so they can get their foot in the market. As long as there is inheritance and money changing hands, real estate prices aren’t going to tank.

#99 ZED on 04.06.21 at 7:03 pm

#7 Bob Dog on 04.06.21 at 2:10 pm

What is affordable housing? Just an illusion, that is for sure.

You justify your abuse of the largesse of T2 on some mythical cost of housing but housing is never cheap, just right for the income of the people or its financing.

I look by at my situation in my mid-twenties in 1990, i bought small and away from work and put down 25% to avoid CHMC insurance. When i see the people talking of un-affordable housing now, they are all looking at more house than i did then.

The illusion is great at this time a greaterfool situation!

#100 Do we have all the facts on 04.06.21 at 7:06 pm

In February 2020 the average home price in Canada was $542,000. The total value of 8,500,000 owner occupied homes in February 2020 was approximately $4.9 trillion. Of this total value $1.65 trillion, or 33.5%, represented mortgage debt and $3.26 trillion, or 66.5%, represented owner equity. Average homeowner equity in February 2020 was $383,500 per home.

By February 2021 the average home price in Canada had escalated to $678,000. The total value of 8,650,000 owner occupied homes in February 2021 was approximately $5.86 trillion. Of this total $1.76 trillion, or
30% represented mortgage debt and $4.1 trillion, or 70% represented owner equity. Average homeowner equity in February 2021 was $474,000, an increase of $9O,500 or 23.6% in just one year.

This means that theoretically the net worth of all Canadian homeowners increased by $840 billion in just one year. This is equivalent to more than 40% of total Canadian GDP. Does that sound sustainable to you?

Anyone who thinks that a correction in house prices will not occur in the foreseeable future is in for quite a shock.

Tick Tock Tick Tock!

#101 the Jaguar on 04.06.21 at 7:08 pm

@#92 The Official Office of Lies, Delusion, Bitterness & Mental Illness Palm Beach, Florida on 04.06.21 at 6:42 pm
+”There has to be a replay because it is the only way for a reset, which is desperately needed. Just like back then.”+
____
Gracious. I think I worked at one of your branch offices a while back.
What you say makes a lot of sense, except resiliency is not the same today as it was then. There’s a whole generation out there without any real understanding of ‘consequences’.

The snowflakes are about to find out there’s no ‘APP’ for the disorderliness about to rain down on them. They’re going to “woke up’ and find the roaring twenties they heard about have returned, but it’s the Weimar Republic version. Mercy.

#102 Looking Up on 04.06.21 at 7:11 pm

#90 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 6:25 pm
#59 wallflower on 04.06.21 at 4:57 pm
#35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm

The Hong Kong people speak Cantonese.
Not Mandarin.
————–
Good try.
The official language in Hong Kong now is Mandarin.
Cantonese is just a dialect.

———

Clearly you’ve never been to Hong Kong.

I was in the ladies night market in Kowloon once and thought I’d try bartering with my crappy Mandarin. After leading with duoshao qian, the vendor started screaming at me, Here we speak CANTONESE NOT MANDARIN.

I never made that mistake again.

And Cantonese is indeed a language not a dialect. It’s also spoken in Malaysia and other Asian countries.

#103 A J on 04.06.21 at 7:19 pm

I’d also like to point out that the population of the GTA in 1989 was 3,710,000. Now it’s 6,255,000. The GTA population will only continue to expand and increase. Land and detached housing will continue to become more hard to buy and more sought after, just like in many large cities around the world. I just don’t see what happened in the 80s happening again. Not with so many people chomping at the bit for housing and so many Boomers nearing retirement with boatloads of cash to hand off to their kids.

#104 Nonplused on 04.06.21 at 7:32 pm

Perhaps money is slowly dying? Weird things happen when money dies.

I’ve never lived through such an occurrence, but it has happened enough times throughout history that volumes have been written on the subject. One of the things that seems notable is that even though prices rise relentlessly, few people have any money. Wages do not keep up at all. Everyone knows the stories from Germany of wives meeting their husbands at the factory on pay day because they had to spend the money immediately before prices for essentials went up again.

So that is another characteristic of most inflationary periods; it is not wage driven. Wages seldom keep up. The price inflation tends to have a monetary source. In Roman times it was driven by the crown debasing the currency from mostly silver to mostly copper in order to pay the mercenary army. Silver exited our currency in 1968. Now, if you can find a $1 silver coin at a flee market it’ll go for $25, and that is just the melt value.

The problem with inflation is that it is exponential, not linear. So that means that even with modest inflation of 2%, prices double every 35 years, instead of 50 were it linear (which would be bad enough). But I don’t think anyone who has done their own grocery shopping believes inflation is only 2%. If it were actually 4% prices would double in just 17.5 years, which seems to me to be more in line with what’s happening.

So what is the inflation rate when houses go up 30% in a year? Or lumber triples in cost in a year? It wasn’t that long ago you could get a sheet of “good 2 sides” oak plywood for $60. Now a sheet of spruce is that much. And sure, these price increases do drive the elusive “substitution” that they use to keep the rate appearing lower than it is. For example, my house was built in 1996 and all the trim and cabinet doors are oak. Now it is much more common to see painted particle moldings and painted fir handrails. Sure, that is cheaper, but don’t tell me it isn’t inflation when people can’t afford oak and settle for ugly white finishings and painted cabinet doors.

Supposedly modern currencies can’t be “debased” because they are not backed by precious metals but instead by assets like government bonds. But what happens when governments start borrowing as they are now? Does that not lead to an increase in the money supply even if not directly to wages? And with Biden proposing to keep the spigots open for “infrastructure” even after covid (and Trudeau likely to follow suite), what does that mean for the future of inflation?

So maybe these crazy home buyers are really just front running what’s coming, even if they haven’t really thought it through.

And if your house goes from $500,000 to $1,000,000 in 17.5 years but a jug of orange juice goes from $7 to $14 in the same period, are you really ahead? Are you any “wealthier”? Especially if your salary doesn’t keep up?

Now let’s throw a capital gains tax on the house and see how you did against the “orange juice index”.

It seems to me that the only things that aren’t inflating at above the posted CPI rate come from China or Mexico. I suppose that keeps the overall level of inflation lower, because you have to count it, but it also means less jobs in Canada or the US, so net-net I doubt it improves anyone’s standard of living. And once China’s economy reaches critical mass, which is coming soon I figure, they too will experience inflation and export it.

So what is happening is that Canadian inflation is way higher than 2%, but because of substitution and cheap imports the BOC does not see it in their highly tortured CPI number, and respond with incorrect interest rate policy, exacerbating the problem. The only way to fix the problem is to fix the CPI and raise rates. And maybe stop borrowing so much money. But I don’t think they are going to do that.

So to make a long story short, the cost of money is nearly free so therefor it isn’t worth anything. Prices take a while to adjust to the new reality. Cash is trash so if you have some buy all the things. They will not be cheaper tomorrow.

#105 Steven Rowlandson on 04.06.21 at 7:32 pm

To paraphrase a line in Full Metal Jacket,” It is huge crap sandwich and we all got to take a bite.”

Well not me because the brainwashing didn’t work.
Before the real estate market is credible again many zeroes are coming off the price and many rules about price will be imposed for the good of the public and many of the public won’t want to hear about real estate for decades. It will be like stocks after 1929.
Similar traumas await the I love debts and deficits crowd.

#106 Cow Man on 04.06.21 at 7:33 pm

#8. Jimmy. What makes you think that the 300,000 Hong Kong residents with CAD passports do not already have family housing in Canada? These homes may be currently rented out. But they may be like the Chinese telecom lady and own several homes here.

#107 Jenna on 04.06.21 at 7:37 pm

It is very different this time !

New economic path. Historical and predictable economic theory does not apply.

We are now in new territory for housing. Prices will continue to go up. Canadian have become generational debt slaves !

#108 Wrk.dover on 04.06.21 at 7:47 pm

The average price (nationally) for entry-level digs is $433,000, says BMO, but given the typical income of newbies, the most they can afford with 5% down is a home selling for $248,000. In Toronto that’s about one-third of a garage. The average Canadian house value, by the way, is $678,000

GT

—————————————————-

I live in the very house that drags both averages way down.

And, I am some glad to too.

Life is just about free this way!

#109 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 7:52 pm

#102 Looking Up on 04.06.21 at 7:11 pm
#90 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 6:25 pm
#59 wallflower on 04.06.21 at 4:57 pm
#35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm

The Hong Kong people speak Cantonese.
Not Mandarin.
————–
Good try.
The official language in Hong Kong now is Mandarin.
Cantonese is just a dialect.

———

Clearly you’ve never been to Hong Kong.

I was in the ladies night market in Kowloon once and thought I’d try bartering with my crappy Mandarin. After leading with duoshao qian, the vendor started screaming at me, Here we speak CANTONESE NOT MANDARIN.

I never made that mistake again.

And Cantonese is indeed a language not a dialect. It’s also spoken in Malaysia and other Asian countries.
————
Try to get any high level job or apply for University and not speaking and writing Mandarin anywhere in China and Hong Kong.
Good luck.

#110 Tim123 on 04.06.21 at 7:57 pm

A top in real estate is coming in the next year or so and it is true that panic buying usually happens at a market top. Nobody forced these people to purchase a house/town house/condo at these ridiculous prices so they will learn a lesson that they will not forget. It might be an expensive lesson but nobody said education was cheap. I don’t feel sorry for them either. Nobody feels sorry for me when I lose money on stocks or options.

#111 TurnerNation on 04.06.21 at 7:57 pm

Oh great I have an admitted fan. Probably added to a Watchlist by now. ;-)

– Some claim that Kanada and Australia are being used as the rollout test zones – of the Globalists’ new machinations.
Keep and eye on these two. Chaos is the goal.

Economic Lockdowns continue anew in Ontariowe.

Reporter:

https://twitter.com/anthonyfurey/status/1379516169397342215
NEW: Dr. David Williams just clarified in his press conference that there is still hardly any in-school transmission. When a class is sent home after a single child tests positive: “We have seen very few go on in those groups to develop signs & symptoms & positivity in testing.”

– So why close the schools up?

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/amid-ongoing-covid-19-pandemic-governor-cuomo-announces-collaboration-gates-foundation-develop
MAY 5, 2020 Albany, NY – Amid Ongoing COVID-19 Pandemic, Governor Cuomo Announces Collaboration with Gates Foundation to Develop a Blueprint to Reimagine Education in the New Normal”

……………………..

For all the One-World-Global-Government theorists:

.Yellen Pushes for Global Minimum Tax Rate on Multinational …https://www.wsj.com › articles › treasurys-yellen-to-call-f…
WASHINGTON—Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen argued for a global minimum corporate tax rate Monday, seeking international cooperation that is crucial to funding the administration’s $2.3 trillion infrastructure proposal.

……………………..
Don’t call it a North American Union?

.Canadian Pacific, Kansas City Southern Receive Further Support for Creating First U.S.-Mexico-Canada Rail Network
……………………..

Alberta imposing restrictions on restaurants, retail stores, gyms amid third COVID-19 (edmontonsun.com)
………….

Tomorrow we will see if these come true:

” Complete and total secondary lock down (much stricter than the first and second rolling phase restrictions). Expected by end of December 2020 – early January 2021
– Reform and expansion of the unemployment program to be transitioned into the universal basic income program. Expected by Q1 2021.”

#112 Nosferatu on 04.06.21 at 8:01 pm

Garth – this charming fella seems to think the limit is beyond the skies…… do you concur or disagree?

https://financialpost.com/real-estate/if-you-think-toronto-is-unaffordable-now-you-wait-cibcs-benjamin-tal-on-gta-housing

#113 Nonplused on 04.06.21 at 8:02 pm

#100 Do we have all the facts on 04.06.21 at 7:06 pm

In February 2020 the average home price in Canada was $542,000. The total value of 8,500,000 owner occupied homes in February 2020 was approximately $4.9 trillion. Of this total value $1.65 trillion, or 33.5%, represented mortgage debt and $3.26 trillion, or 66.5%, represented owner equity. Average homeowner equity in February 2020 was $383,500 per home.

By February 2021 the average home price in Canada had escalated to $678,000. The total value of 8,650,000 owner occupied homes in February 2021 was approximately $5.86 trillion. Of this total $1.76 trillion, or
30% represented mortgage debt and $4.1 trillion, or 70% represented owner equity. Average homeowner equity in February 2021 was $474,000, an increase of $9O,500 or 23.6% in just one year.

This means that theoretically the net worth of all Canadian homeowners increased by $840 billion in just one year. This is equivalent to more than 40% of total Canadian GDP. Does that sound sustainable to you?

Anyone who thinks that a correction in house prices will not occur in the foreseeable future is in for quite a shock.

————————————

It is just as feasible that the correction will be in the dollar. “Price” doesn’t mean anything when interest rates are at the zero boundary.

During the Weinmar hyperinflation people who owned hard assets including real estate did ok except that they couldn’t afford food. Large landholders like farmers appeared enormously wealthy on paper even though it was the same farm and the same crop.

Remember, money isn’t real, it is merely an accounting system. With the way the government is borrowing and spending (and thus creating new accounting units) I think the argument can be made that this is the new normal and in time the inflation will come to other goods and services.

It makes it hard to think about “wealth” in the middle of a bubble or inflation. Did the average homeowner in Canada really earn $9O,500 in equity in 1 year? Or did the dollar debase by 26%? Or both? A house is just a house, it is not money.

If the dollar did debase by 26%, the expected correction in the Calgary market did occur already exactly as expected, but fiddling with the accounting measures (money) covered it up. And in terms of forward purchasing power, nobody is any further ahead than they were before.

I mean, your numbers don’t lie. But it boggles my mind how people can grow rich owning a house to live in. And if you value your house in some other measure other than Canadian dollars, say like new Ram 3500’s, nobody made any new wealth compared to the Ram 3500 index at all.

The great Canadian housing correction has already occurred. It was just papered over with absurdly low interest rates and dollar debasement. No new wealth was either created or destroyed. A house is just a house.

The big losers of course were anyone that gets paid in Canadian dollars and doesn’t have inflation proof assets like real estate and a good investment portfolio.

#114 Tri state pat on 04.06.21 at 8:07 pm

When Garth says,
It might be rising interest rates as vaccines defeat the virus and the US economy explodes higher…

I definitely concur with that. Work for a large industrial and we have not seen activity like this for a long time. No sign of letting go either. It is roaring back.

#115 Mattl on 04.06.21 at 8:07 pm

Okanagan RE stats just released:

“Residential sales for the month of March were up 146% with 1,763 units sold compared to March 2020’s 708 units. The South Peace River and the Shuswap/ Revelstoke regions saw the highest increase of sales with a 225% and 223% upswing compared to the same time last year.”

Sure it’s not up 9% like Stones portfolio but good god those sales numbers are insane.

Also: Listings down 50% and benchmark price for a SFH up 23% YOY. I’d say April will be huge but I don’t believe it can be, there are no homes left to sell.

If I was older I’d sell the house, take the profit but we love it here and we’d end up paying 6-8K a month for a comparable house / acreage and our mortgage is under 3K.

First world problems for sure.

#116 SoggyShorts on 04.06.21 at 8:10 pm

#66 Stone on 04.06.21 at 5:17 pm
Re-read what you wrote and tell me who’s triggered.
***************
Seems like I triggered you by simply saying you were triggered. Weak.

Face it buddy: you are upset because you thought you could pretend to be this investing guru but since no one believes your lies no one wants you.
I actually thought you might have something interesting to add to the discussion but there’s just nothing but air.

I almost feel a little bad for you since those fake returns were really all you had to contribute and now you don’t even have that.
It must be pretty painful to not only have others realize that you have no value but to recognize it in yourself as well.

#117 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 04.06.21 at 8:10 pm

#35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm
——————-
I like Chinese food, and always look for an opportunity to hone my Mandarin.
=========
Sadly you will be disappointed as most Hong Kong’ers refuse to learn or speak mandarin and prefer to stick with their mother tongue:Cantonese which is definitely not Mandarin with more tones. Those that will decide to come here will be the ones that refuse to speak Mandarin, else they would just cross the bridge into Shenzen where the real money making opportunities are. On the other hand there will be the opportunity to learn and practice Cantonese .

#118 Looking Up on 04.06.21 at 8:28 pm

#102 Looking Up on 04.06.21 at 7:11 pm
#90 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 6:25 pm
#59 wallflower on 04.06.21 at 4:57 pm
#35 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm

The Hong Kong people speak Cantonese.
Not Mandarin.
————–
Good try.
The official language in Hong Kong now is Mandarin.
Cantonese is just a dialect.

———

Clearly you’ve never been to Hong Kong.

I was in the ladies night market in Kowloon once and thought I’d try bartering with my crappy Mandarin. After leading with duoshao qian, the vendor started screaming at me, Here we speak CANTONESE NOT MANDARIN.

I never made that mistake again.

And Cantonese is indeed a language not a dialect. It’s also spoken in Malaysia and other Asian countries.
————
Try to get any high level job or apply for University and not speaking and writing Mandarin anywhere in China and Hong Kong.
Good luck.

———

OK let’s recap. You said that you were happy that people from Hong Kong will be coming to Canada because you like Chinese food and you could practice your Mandarin.

Myself and others on this board have pointed out to you that those coming from Hong Kong would probably not speak any Mandarin as Cantonese is the language that is spoken there.

That is a rookie mistake made by someone who knows nothing about Hong Kong. I have doubts that you have a “buddy” in Hong Kong because if you told them that Mandarin is the language of Hong Kong and that Cantonese is “just a dialect of Mandarin” (completely false) they would most likely never speak to you again.

I know a surgeon here (veeerrryyy educated) who came from Hong Kong and knows only a few words of Mandarin. That is typical for many educated people from Hong Kong. It is far more likely they would speak English as a second language.

As someone else on this board pointed out to you the only people you hear speaking Mandarin in Hong Kong are wealthy tourists from the mainland and the shopkeepers who deal with them.

And now with the animosity between Hong Kong and the mainland, many Chinese visiting from the mainland will try not to be overheard speaking Mandarin or speak in English if they can.

#119 Nonplused on 04.06.21 at 8:31 pm

#86 Shawn on 04.06.21 at 6:15 pm

So what financial instrument can one use to short the Canadian housing market like in that movie The Big Short?

——————————————-

Don’t. As I have been arguing above, housing can experience a significant correction compared to other economic values without a “price” correction if currency is involved. So unless you are a serious currency speculator do not bet against the BOC.

And folks, I think it is time to stop riding Garth because his correction did not come. It certainly did, but was masked by the dollar falling from 1.02 to 0.75 USD. If that isn’t a 25% correction I don’t know what is. The Canadian housing correction is now past tense. Still have bubbles in YYZ and YVR though, but not elsewhere in USD.

#120 wallflower on 04.06.21 at 8:31 pm

So, you mean there is a language elite that gets all the top bureaucrat jobs — like in Canada?

Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 3:44 pm:

Try to get any high level job or apply for University and not speaking and writing Mandarin anywhere in China and Hong Kong.
Good luck.

#121 Quintilian on 04.06.21 at 8:34 pm

Here we go again, the realtors pushing the narrative that billionaires around the world are coming in droves and we are running out of land.

We are not running out of land, and the billionaire immigrants are NOT pushing prices up, it is the local fools, otherwise how would 2 trillion dollars in mortgage debt be explained given that the tycoon immigrants pay cash?

#122 AM in MN on 04.06.21 at 8:36 pm

#106 Cow Man on 04.06.21 at 7:33 pm
#8. Jimmy. What makes you think that the 300,000 Hong Kong residents with CAD passports do not already have family housing in Canada? These homes may be currently rented out. But they may be like the Chinese telecom lady and own several homes here.

———————————————

The HK’ers are coming as soon as they can travel.

The ones with Canadian passports or residency will need a place to live, they don’t all own right now.

They speak Cantonese, Mandarin is being forced on them like all the other propaganda from the CCP. Many would prefer to just speak English.

They are urban people who like good restaurants, won’t be looking for places in the small towns.

Thus far urban condos have been spared the price insanity….but not for long.

Plenty of Taiwanese see the writing on the wall as well, and a lot of mainlanders who had some degree of academic and business freedom in the past are looking for an exit as well.

We ain’t seen nothin yet….

#123 VladTor on 04.06.21 at 8:46 pm

Garth, excellent post today. You scare people!

Here is amazing illustration in addition —> https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2021/04/toronto-home-with-no-ac-just-sold-almost-double-asking-price/

Asking price – $998000 , sold – $1777777.
BUT, everybody should have a look for what !!!!!

Personally me, after I’m finishing reading article I only miraculously didn’t fall off the chair.

For this price you can by 2 Castles in France like this —> https://properties.lefigaro.com/announces/chateau-indre+et+loire-centre-france/31932837/

What happening with Canada ????????

#124 chopstix on 04.06.21 at 9:00 pm

need suggestions please: Looking to max out my TFSA..added $23k last week in TELUS stock (have $40k in there now) and want to max out the to the total lifetime of $75k using $30k from my MVA setttlement (i’ve only contributed 2k to a TFSA, and that was 3 yrs ago)….thinking of using WealthSimple’s Balanced Equity fund…any other suggestions?
am hopefully retiring in 5-7 yrs (if I can last that long)

#125 Sniff Sniff on 04.06.21 at 9:14 pm

MattL the Ranger?

#126 Doug t on 04.06.21 at 9:45 pm

You seriously could not offer me A. 1 million cash and B. a penthouse condo in downtown Toronto to live in – It is a soulless sinkhole – nope no way no chance thank you

#127 CL on 04.06.21 at 9:46 pm

“Conclusion: unsustainable. Impossible to continue. Irrational. Risk and danger.”

I disagree. As much as what you say is rational and logical, this is Canada and Canada seems to skate through it all. Somehow. It won’t blow up and the measures will be timid if any. Prices will stay elevated even if they tweak some things. The only way to correct this is the New Zealand way.

Real estate is the true epidemic in this country but what amazes and confounds me is who the hell can afford these prices??? It seems we have a country full of millionaires. I’ve made good money in my career. Very good but I couldn’t afford these prices.

Lenders are crying this is insanity yet they are doing the lending!! This is the problem with having a CMHC. Moral hazard reigns supreme.

#128 Planetgoofy on 04.06.21 at 9:47 pm

#122 AM in MN
————————
I can agree with that assessment. I’ve listen to the top callers for years. Kanada is a go to destination. Secure safe banks ectn ect.
Stocks are for selling RE is for accumulating. People know its a leveraged purchase and if it goes up say 10 points….. that’s on total valuation not your down. That’s sweet appreciation. If you leverage the stock market you can get crushed.
Its not just RE that’s launched, collectable cars to art have rocketed for a number of years. Why? because people would rather own tangible things especially ones off the radar…Because govs are crooks and their ALL BROKE…Faith in gov’s is dwindling. Cash is not to be held. The presses are running.

#129 BCpaul on 04.06.21 at 9:52 pm

Canada’s economy IS the housing market. How can they afford to kill it?

#130 Northshore guy on 04.06.21 at 10:12 pm

485 Monteray Ave, North Vancouver
Listed for 2.398
Sold over asking 2.450
Previously sold for 1.938 Oct 2019

Nice house, amazing views. I have walked in that area a lot. Somebody bought a dream house but they probably paid s bit too much. Just a bit. It will hold its value

#131 Jane24 on 04.06.21 at 10:32 pm

My bungalow here on the south coast of England goes onto the market on Saturday with an open house. Why do I mention this? Because I am paying an average UK RE commission of .9%, yes that is less than 1%, to the RE agency to market and sell the place. I think that is about right for the services to be rendered.

Paying $50,000 RE commission in Canada for a few hours work in a RE boom is extortion. It is shocking that it is even legal.

#132 GreaterFool on 04.06.21 at 10:43 pm

Terrorist running central bank will try their best to delay rising the rate, they have been on a path with no return.

Parliament hill is running by wealthy 2nd-generation who would ask during a famine that “Why not eat minced meat“. No, they better not to do anything on April 19 to housing market. They would just make house-affordability worse.

The root cause is not FOMO, it is the multi-properties ownership! the house ownership is 70%, but what’s the percentage of the 70% owns multiple properties?

#133 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 11:05 pm

#122
Plenty of Taiwanese see the writing on the wall as well, and a lot of mainlanders who had some degree of academic and business freedom in the past are looking for an exit as well.
——————-
And guess what?
The writing on the wall is in Mandarin.

#134 Planetgoofy on 04.06.21 at 11:08 pm

#123 VladTor on 04.06.21 at 8:46 pm
—————————————–
Someone’s an idiot. God you could here your neighbor if has gas from that place. OMG
Where I live with ocean view through the park on an acre with 25x 100ft cedars around me and a 10x nicer place than TO…maybe worth a mil…

#135 Leaving YVR on 04.06.21 at 11:24 pm

In Vancouver, new listings have exploded.

Through February it was only sales that were making record numbers but in March listings caught up and both were all time records highs

The day after Easter weekend usually show a high number of listings, 400+ with an all time high a little over 500.

Today, 646 properties were listed.

#136 Garth's Son Drake on 04.06.21 at 11:48 pm

Garth, Ontario going into full lock-down. Stay at home orders.

BC will follow. I am telling you. It is bad.

Everyone I know, small towns, everywhere is getting contact traced.

#137 SoggyShorts on 04.06.21 at 11:49 pm

#124 chopstix on 04.06.21 at 9:00 pm
need suggestions please: Looking to max out my TFSA..added $23k last week in TELUS stock (have $40k in there now) and want to max out the to the total lifetime of $75k using $30k from my MVA setttlement (i’ve only contributed 2k to a TFSA, and that was 3 yrs ago)….thinking of using WealthSimple’s Balanced Equity fund…any other suggestions?
am hopefully retiring in 5-7 yrs (if I can last that long)

********************
Retiring on what if I may ask? If you are just now using an MVA to top off your TFSA does that mean you don’t have other investments? Perhaps a fat pension or paid-off home?
Also, how long is your retirement horizon? In 5-7 years will you be 40 or 67?

#138 YVR 60% Crash on 04.07.21 at 12:05 am

#90 Ponzius Pilatus
The official language in Hong Kong now is Mandarin.
Cantonese is just a dialect.
———————————
#118

Try to get any high level job or apply for University and not speaking and writing Mandarin anywhere in China and Hong Kong.

—————————

You’re making a fool of yourself. Hongkongers considers itself to be culturally Chinese, and generally do not consider
themselves to be nationally Chinese.
Take my advice. Never tell a Hongkonger face to face that they should learn Mandarin if they want to get any high level job or apply for University
and not speaking and writing Mandarin in Hong Kong.

#139 NSNG on 04.07.21 at 12:48 am

When dobermans were popular you had movies like this:

The Doberman Gang.

A guy trains a group of dogs to rob a bank.

This needs a remake.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068491/reviews?ref_=tt_ov_rt

#140 Mad Max on 04.07.21 at 1:08 am

Why do the government tell poor people that the best social assistance is a job, while the government lets the Canadian fed printer go brrrr for the home owners?

https://wolfstreet.com/2021/04/06/bank-of-canada-holdings-government-of-canada-bonds-rise-to-40-percent-total-outstanding-fed-a-saint-in-comparison-taper-on-table/

#141 Stone on 04.07.21 at 8:15 am

GTA Sales of 15,652 properties in a single month, a 97% increase.

905 is ludicrous. Sales in the burbs and little weensy hick cities surrounding the Big Smoke exploded 111%.

———

Record home sales. Day in, day out. Week after week, month after month.

Is there really a tight inventory problem? How is that possible when we have continuous record sales? Sounds like a glut to me but no one can seem to process that through their brain. Apparently in the same way as not being able to figure out the ETFs that form my balanced and diversified portfolio producing a 9.81% return ytd.

Keep overpaying, suckers.

More divvies coming on my B&D April 9th.

#142 Honest Realtor on 04.07.21 at 8:15 am

In 1989, Canada ranked up there with 2nd tier countries as preferred migration destinations.

Today, we’re in the top 5.

There will probably be about 1 million people coming here from Hong Kong and China in the next 5-8 years. Plus 1-2 million from other countries. All ready to buy homes.

Real estate will continue to be the bedrock of Canadian family wealth. Those who don’t buy now will regret it deeply in another decade. Stocks and bonds are fun, and can be helpful. Home ownership is serious and makes the biggest difference.

#143 the Jaguar on 04.07.21 at 8:29 am

#132 GreaterFool on 04.06.21 at 10:43 pm
++The root cause is not FOMO, it is the multi-properties ownership! the house ownership is 70%, but what’s the percentage of the 70% owns multiple properties?
++

BINGO! Finally someone nailed it!

#144 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 8:31 am

@#137 YVR 60% Crash
Re: Prattling Pugnacious Pedant
“You’re making a fool of yourself. ”

+++

True.
But I must admit.
Stubbornly, amusingly entertaining…..
Reminds me of our multi lingual “Finance” minister.

“I’m smart and you’re not. So just sit down, shut up, and listen to me saying really smart things.”

Back to you Ponzerelli….

#145 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 8:40 am

@#134 jane24
“My bungalow here on the south coast of England goes onto the market on Saturday with an open house. Why do I mention this?”

+++

Your nonstop bragging about your material wealth?

Do you still have the “palace” in Southern Italia?
You havent reminded us poor unwashed colonials about that in a while?

Did you ever buy the “estate” in France? Or was that just bored musings of a fabulously rich ex Canuck?

Have you noticed any financial changes since Brexit?
Traded British goods down 20% since the split.
Perishable goods such as fish rotting in lines awaiting inspection.
Is that why you’re selling?
See the monetary writing on the wall as do other English companies quietly scurrying to the Continent?
Avoiding the rush as it were.

#146 Miserable Boomer on 04.07.21 at 8:41 am

Garth, we spent a week respectfully mourning the passing of Bandit. But, there hasn’t been a single Moment of Silence for the 35,000 Covid dead Canadians or a comment about the 5200 per week of infections. There has been no comment about the vaccine response.
People are dying. Anything about the announcement that 450,000 jobs will be axed by this governments policies? What’s Ryan’s macro call on that?

#147 Looking Up on 04.07.21 at 8:50 am

#133 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 11:05 pm
#122
Plenty of Taiwanese see the writing on the wall as well, and a lot of mainlanders who had some degree of academic and business freedom in the past are looking for an exit as well.
——————-
And guess what?
The writing on the wall is in Mandarin.

———-

OK Look,

You continue to show your ignorance and embarrass yourself . Mandarin has been the main language in Taiwan for many years. You we’re talking about practicing Mandarin with people arriving from Hong Kong.

The official language of Hong Kong is Cantonese. Here is a direct excerpt from wikipedia:

The principal language of Hong Kong is standard Cantonese (粵語, 廣州話, 廣東話, 廣府話, 白話, 本地話),spoken by 88.9% of the population at home daily. As an official language, it is used in education, broadcasting, government administration, legislation and judiciary, as well as for daily communication. As a result of its predominance throughout the community, Cantonese is virtually the exclusive language of official discourse at all levels of the executive, legislature and courts of Hong Kong.

I am certain of 3 things about you:

1) Before yesterday when you we’re enlightened by myself and others on the board, you didn’t even know what Cantonese was.

2) You don’t have a “buddy” in Hong Kong as you say. If you did, it is unfathomable that you wouldn’t know that Cantonese is the language spoken there.

3) The little Mandarin that you profess to know you learned by frequenting Chinese “establishments” in Canada that offer certain “enhanced” massage services.

Am I right? Am I right?

#148 Pfff ... on 04.07.21 at 9:17 am

Nobody knows what is happening, no matter what they say. The data is kept secret, methodologies are flawed (think of the Consumer Price Index). And it is all these indices that political decisions are based on. People that correctly predict house market crashes or recessions, usually also have predicted the past 10 such events that never happened.
The only thing that is certain is that there is so much money in the housing market that nobody except the people that are looking to buy want prices to decrease. The government will do everything in their power to keep this up. Will they succeed or do we have a Black Swan event coming up? Nobody knows.
I guess the only question people should ask themselves is what is the worst that can happen to me? How much can I lose? But take someone that paid a mere 5% down on their house last month. These people had nothing before, and if it all goes to hell they will have nothing after. So? What will they lose? The money they never had? Do you go to jail in Canada for bankruptcy? I don’t think so. And people that have had houses for a few years, they saw so much appreciation that even a 30% decrease (unlikely) will hardly be felt. Sure, some of the tail will end up living in the street, but there are so many parks where you can pop up your tent and climate warming is coming, and you know how many homeless people vote? Not many.
https://theconversation.com/as-few-as-1-in-10-homeless-people-vote-in-elections-heres-why-146716

#149 BillyBob on 04.07.21 at 9:19 am

#133 Ponzius Pilatus on 04.06.21 at 11:05 pm
#122
Plenty of Taiwanese see the writing on the wall as well, and a lot of mainlanders who had some degree of academic and business freedom in the past are looking for an exit as well.
——————-
And guess what?
The writing on the wall is in Mandarin.

================================

*mildly exasperated sigh* Just give it up.

Even the Mandarin in Taiwan is different from that spoken from Mainland. (7 principal tones versus 5, to grossly simplify.) Have you actually ever lived there, or do you have “a contact” there too?

But, back to your refusal to admit that your chances of speaking Cantonese with a Hong Konger is far greater than Mandarin by trying to hide behind the semantics of what the mainland overlords have tried to impose. Kind of an odd choice of hill to die on. I guess you don’t have a choice but to keep doubling down, considering you’ve claimed your wife is Chinese. But it’s ok, you’ve repeatedly shown that doesn’t confer any special Sino insights in the past.

As for those equating the outcome of Taiwan with that of Hong Kong because they’re both populated by ethnic Chinese, well…wow. Better read a history book or two.

#150 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 9:33 am

@#145 Secret miserable millennial

“But, there hasn’t been a single Moment of Silence for the 35,000 Covid dead Canadians or a comment about the 5200 per week of infections. There has been no comment about the vaccine response.”

++++

Last time I checked this was a financial blog ( with zero advertising!)….

Not a Wailing Wall for the emotionally sensitive and politically correct.
Want to sling bricks at someone?
Blame the govt’s lack of preparedness and inability after a year of warnings to organize anything more complicated than plugging a toilet at a cheese factory for the unnecessary victims of this pandemic.

Oh, and if the virus is mutating as quickly as all indications suggest.
Prepare for a second year of even more severe lockdowns.

But I’m sure our fearless “cottage dwelling ” PM will wheeze breathlessly with more “pressers” on the lawn in the park announcing more tens of billions to be tossed into the bonfire known as Covid “prevention”.

#151 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 9:39 am

@#141 Honest…I’m a Realtor not a shyster

“Real estate will continue to be the bedrock of Canadian family wealth. Those who don’t buy now will regret it deeply in another decade. ”

++++

Your “objective” “advice” is about as palatable as the obscene commissions you charge for hammering a sign in a lawn and unlocking a door and stepping aside….

#152 Sara on 04.07.21 at 9:43 am

#144 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 8:40 am
@#134 jane24
“My bungalow here on the south coast of England goes onto the market on Saturday with an open house. Why do I mention this?”

+++

Your nonstop bragging about your material wealth?

==================
CEF, why is it fine when SA brags about his material wealth (which he does quite frequently), but not OK when Jane (apparently) does?

#153 chopstix on 04.07.21 at 9:48 am

hi soggy pants:
-am 59
-have 130k rrsp maxing out each yr when i can @ $2500 alowable
-have 45k tfsa (soon to be topped to 75k w mva payout)
-have 2100/mo pension accumulated so far (telus) if i were to retire @ 65…each yr i remain working adds another $110ish/mo..hence trying to ‘hang in there’ for another 6-7 yrs.
-have no RE equity: stupidly didn’t get into market on time so I rent…trying to get into a coop to lessen rental expenses.
-am putting away 8-10k/yr as well, live within my means.
-at least i have zero debt, a good credit rating of 850.
*don’t be too hard on me please: I kick myself enough as it is..

#154 Penny Henny on 04.07.21 at 9:54 am

#89 Armpit on 04.06.21 at 6:23 pm
Couple I mentioned earlier last week, went house horny after being told by realtor they could get more than $450,000 for their small house in the Niagara area. All they have to do is sign with the agent for two weeks…no conditions to sell if they don’t want.

They got excited. Went house shopping two hours away in a rural area and purchased one for under $400,000. Needs work, but are banking on their sale to cover renovations.

Their house got listed. Within a week, blind offers came in and they sold for $529,000 . $79,000 over listing. Sale is to close after the BUDGET.
///////////////

Carleton st?
Wow they dun good.

#155 KLNR on 04.07.21 at 10:04 am

always figured a ford government would be inept but this is next level lol. what a debacle.

#156 freddy on 04.07.21 at 10:17 am

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-to-enact-month-long-stay-at-home-order-beginning-thursday-sources-1.5377410

what a complete shit show we have become

#157 Phylis on 04.07.21 at 10:21 am

Ponzerelli…. Like that one, ehhhh!

#158 hey look... on 04.07.21 at 10:25 am

https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2021/04/toronto-home-with-no-ac-just-sold-almost-double-asking-price/

but wait, what’s the case tally today? LOL

leadership is beyond incompetent , twilight zone. Good thing for these ‘leaders’, the country is Canada. The passive, apologetic bunch

#159 enthalpy on 04.07.21 at 10:26 am

So tired of all this overhyped bs.
You can’t walk 5 ft anywhere without some windbag talking about making multiple offers.

This disease is worse than Corona

#160 Penny Henny on 04.07.21 at 10:30 am

#124 chopstix on 04.06.21 at 9:00 pm
need suggestions please: Looking to max out my TFSA..added $23k last week in TELUS stock (have $40k in there now) and want to max out the to the total lifetime of $75k using $30k from my MVA setttlement (i’ve only contributed 2k to a TFSA, and that was 3 yrs ago)….thinking of using WealthSimple’s Balanced Equity fund…any other suggestions?
am hopefully retiring in 5-7 yrs (if I can last that long)
////////////

Stone is looking for clients.
ha, ha, ha

#161 Sail Away on 04.07.21 at 10:30 am

#140 Stone on 04.07.21 at 8:15 am

Apparently in the same way as not being able to figure out the ETFs that form my balanced and diversified portfolio producing a 9.81% return ytd.

———–

There is a family of miniature pink unicorns nesting in our rhododendrons. True story.

#162 Planetgoofy on 04.07.21 at 10:38 am

#58 Stone on 04.05.21 at 6:49 pm
————-
Debt does NOT hamper growth. Thats an open and clueless statement.
With interest rates in the ground, my int. tax deductable and my corporate renters paying large Im at 8% return on all my properties.
Last year was great my props were up in value in the millions.
More importantly the cost of building sky rocketed making me even more competitive than any new builds. My cost base was set years ago.
Thanks to the right amount of debt with cash flow businesss Im very well off.
Ya life is good.

#163 Doug in London on 04.07.21 at 10:58 am

@Editrix, post #64:
So the neighbours were grumbling, whose fault was that? I suspect the couple who bought the house for half the price had the common sense to keep out of a runaway market in 1989 and waited for a better opportunity to buy. In other words, they were led by common sense and not emotions.

#164 Dharma Bum on 04.07.21 at 11:03 am

I kicked this dirt in 1989. And I know what’s coming.

~ Garth
—————————————————————————

I did too. Seems like yesterday.

Geez, I’m old.

#165 kc on 04.07.21 at 11:07 am

#7 Bob Dog on 04.06.21 at 2:10 pm
Just turned down a job for $130K at a tech company because thats not enough to own a home in Canada. I just learned that EI is extended to November so I will continue to milk it till the bitter end and look for a job when I see affordable housing or the pogey runs out.

This is my FU to the government of canada and the financial terrorists running the bank of canada.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Troll much?

I think you need to re-assess this comment. turning down 130k in IT based job that could probably be out sourced to some far away land by a person sitting at a desk making 20k a year??

to sit on your ass and pull in max 3k a month on a government cheque? just doesn’t seem true. and who is to say in 6 months the SHTF and your talented job is now obsolete for the recession hits full monty and you are now screwed as there are 30 people with your “qualifications” hunting for your same job? and the employer knows this and has decreased the pay to 75K knowing full well that you won’t be signing on for 130K anymore….

I so call BS to your story …. but if it is true … you are a complete idiot for reasons i stated above…

#166 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 12:04 pm

Toronto City Hall take note.
There’s “air” to be taxed…….

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/taxed-on-the-air-vancouver-restaurant-dinged-by-b-c-s-vacancy-tax-for-open-space-above-building-1.5377262

#167 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 12:08 pm

@#151 Trigger Sara
“CEF, why is it fine when SA brags about his material wealth (which he does quite frequently), but not OK when Jane (apparently) does?”

+++

I’d say it’s possibly because Jane24 incessant bragging annoys me more than Sail Away’s (apparent) bragging.

You hammer away at Sailio and I’ll hammer away at Jane24….
Gender equality and all that.

We’ll both meet in the middle elevator after its all over, and trade stories…

#168 KLNR on 04.07.21 at 12:15 pm

@#151 Sara on 04.07.21 at 9:43 am
#144 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 8:40 am
@#134 jane24
“My bungalow here on the south coast of England goes onto the market on Saturday with an open house. Why do I mention this?”

+++

Your nonstop bragging about your material wealth?

==================
CEF, why is it fine when SA brags about his material wealth (which he does quite frequently), but not OK when Jane (apparently) does?

CEF clearly loathes women almost as much as he loathes trudeau.

#169 Not yet washed up lawyer on 04.07.21 at 12:38 pm

#165 cef

Toronto City Hall take note.
There’s “air” to be taxed…….

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/taxed-on-the-air-vancouver-restaurant-dinged-by-b-c-s-vacancy-tax-for-open-space-above-building-1.5377262

————————–

Hmm, so air has financial value…logical extension would be that impinging on air quality could be actionable in the courts…

CEF, next time I meet you in the building, I’m gonna sue your ass!

umm…literally, I guess.

#170 Sara on 04.07.21 at 1:10 pm

@CEF, “You hammer away at Sailio and I’ll hammer away at Jane24….
Gender equality and all that.

We’ll both meet in the middle elevator after its all over, and trade stories… ”

Nah, I’m done with that. Was simply asking you a sincere question, but didn’t really expect anything more than a defensive retort.

Carry on as you were. Some of us never really change.

No point, particularly at your age, trying to figure out how to be introspective. If you haven’t yet, you likely never will. Have a great day!

#171 Sara on 04.07.21 at 1:18 pm

@CEF, one more point, before I recede back into the shadows. Comparing criticism of Jane to criticism of SailAway is disingenuous, to say the least. SA is on a whole different level of anti-social behaviour than Jane is. Surely you can see that at least.

#172 Sara on 04.07.21 at 1:21 pm

@Jane24

My apologies if I sounded like I was putting you down. I wasn’t. Your comments, unlike some others, don’t stand out as being negative, from what I recall – unless I missed something.

#173 Team Rocket on 04.07.21 at 1:39 pm

Toronto is a growing city with growing pains, according to realtors:

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/mm45g3/im_not_moving_most_rexdale_townhouse_tenants_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

#174 Stone on 04.07.21 at 1:59 pm

#161 Planetgoofy on 04.07.21 at 10:38 am
#58 Stone on 04.05.21 at 6:49 pm
————-
Debt does NOT hamper growth. Thats an open and clueless statement.
With interest rates in the ground, my int. tax deductable and my corporate renters paying large Im at 8% return on all my properties.
Last year was great my props were up in value in the millions.
More importantly the cost of building sky rocketed making me even more competitive than any new builds. My cost base was set years ago.
Thanks to the right amount of debt with cash flow businesss Im very well off.
Ya life is good.

———

Wealth accumulation without debt is even tastier. Why have your banker up your bum constantly? If that’s where you want you want your banker…I won’t judge.

#175 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 2:12 pm

@#168,169 Triggered Sara

I was wondering when you’d come back out into daylight …see your shadow….and unleash a hellstorm.

Carry on.

#176 Job#1 on 04.07.21 at 2:14 pm

Does anyone know what happened to the mortgage-deferral cliff that was supposed to arrive this past January? Did all those that deferred actually not need to? Or did some end up underwater and are hoping for the spring rutting season to sell?
What about the stress test. Does one still have to qualify at 4.6%-ish (or posted bank rate plus 2%)? Or how do mortgage applications fare when the appraised value is grossly exceeded by the sale price?
Obviously (to me) the players (buyers, agents, brokers, banks, etc.) are colluding, some dishonestly, others carelessly, to keep the pot boiling. The BoC and CMHC pretend that the RE situation is under control.
In my observation over decades, it is when first time buyers can’t afford to hop on the property ladder that the whole RE conveyor belt seizes up. More than anything else, it is economic prosperity, and especially employment prospects, or the lack thereof, that dictate whether buyers can jump into the fray.
It is interesting to note the increasing numbers of sellers who are reaping once-in-a-lifetime RE gains, are unable to afford their next purchase. The same mechanism that allowed them to sell at all-time-highs dictates that they also have to buy the next property at an all-time-high. It’s a zero-sum game.
I think the rubber hits the road when government intervention/subsidies/CRB/CEWS stops. The inflation, as a byproduct of gov. policy will remain, but the euphoria and perceived wealth effect of appreciating assets will dissipate as people will come to realize that they’re not “richer than you think”.
MMT does not work, and it’s not different this time.

#177 crowdedelevatorfartz on 04.07.21 at 2:16 pm

@#167 KLNR
“CEF clearly loathes women almost as much as he loathes trudeau.”

+++

Nah just pretentious snobs….if they happen to be female…. so be it.
In the famous dictum of our esteemed Prime Minister

“Because its 2021…”

Equality and all that.
You wanna be equal. You got it.

#178 Sail Away on 04.07.21 at 2:17 pm

#169 Sara on 04.07.21 at 1:18 pm

@CEF, one more point, before I recede back into the shadows. Comparing criticism of Jane to criticism of SailAway is disingenuous, to say the least. SA is on a whole different level of anti-social behaviour than Jane is. Surely you can see that at least.

——–

Ouch. That seems mean.

What have I done to you?

Well, except that one thing… but to be fair, I wasn’t the only one at the party who honestly and truly thought you were an orangutan.

#179 re. stony on 04.07.21 at 2:48 pm

Wealth accumulation without debt is even tastier. Why have your banker up your bum constantly? If that’s where you want you want your banker…I won’t judge.

…..

lol, that’s why you’ll always be a little guy Stony, bragging about ROI at an anonymous blog. But that’s okay, let others take debt at 2% and make 8% + on it…cause debt is bad