Cheap & cheaper

Late last week Dave got an email from his friendly, neighbourhood, slippery mortgage broker. (Not all brokers are like that, but read on…). So our guy has a home loan of almost $550,000 and Mr. Broker was kindly offering to reduce his current 2.99% rate down to just 2.04%, for the low, low, one-time-only fee of $25,604.

“He had a bunch of calculations on a spreadsheet about interest paid, interest owing etc.,” says Dave. But he wasn’t buying it.

“Apparently mortgage dudes have their own versions of Frankenumbers.   He offered to make this change for me and said I would be saving about $7,000 for the next 4 years (and I presume he would be getting about $6,000 for another mortgage commission).”

So being part of the GreaterFool enlightened class (and because our faithful blog dog is also a financial math teacher), Dave gave his guy a wee lesson in finances and morality.

Amount left on mortgage:  $545,891
Payments:  $2,647
Interest rate: 2.99%
Remaining principle after another 49 months:  $478,162
Amount paid by me:  $129,703

To get the new rate:
Amount:  $571,585   ($545,891 + the $25,604 penalty)
Payment amount:  $2,386
Interest rate:  2.04%
Remaining principle after another 49 months:  498,977
Amount paid by me:  $116,914

“So,” he concludes, “the broker wants me to save $12,800 in payments but add $20,800 to my mortgage!!?? Is there a regulatory body or College of Mortgage Brokers that I can complain to?”

Yes there is. Mortgage brokers are provincially regulated – and those regulators have teeth. For example, if Dave’s in Ontario he should squawk to the Financial Services Commission of Ontario. If in BC, the mortgage cops are at the BC Financial Services Authority.

This raises a couple of points. First, how do you become a licensed mortgage flogger? How detailed is the financial training that agents must absorb? How much experience do these folks need before they can start advising clients on acquiring and correctly financing the biggest debt of their lives? How long does it take to qualify to do this line of work, taking into account that each transaction involves hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Well, in Ontario, this is the process:

There are 3 steps to get mortgage agent licensed in Ontario:
1. Pass The Course – the mortgage agent course can be done in as little as 5 days for as little as $338.
2. Get Hired – you must join a mortgage brokerage first before you can get licensed.
3. Complete the FSRA Application – the FSRA (formerly FSCO) licensed mortgage brokerage applies to FSRA for your mortgage agent license.
And, you can do it all online while you’re locked down in quarantine. How cool and convenient is that? Not busy this week? Hey, you can be a mortgage agent by the weekend!

(You can compare this to a lowly financial advisor, required to write at least four examinations and take courses over 36 months plus go through a corporate registration period, who is then policed by a federal regulator with judicial powers, as well as being licensed provincially – all to invest some guy’s $12,000 TFSA.)

But wait. What’s this 2.04% ‘special rate’ being offered to our online warrior-teacher-colleague?

It’s excessive, is what.

There are currently brokers offering five-year fixed terms for 1.3%, if you can believe it. Even a bunch of banks are sub-2% these days. For example, TD’s giving its customers a half-decade loan at just 1.84%. Both CIBC and BMO are doling dollars at 1.93%. And if you look fetchingly at [email protected] you might even squeeze a few more basis points out of her.

Of course, events of last week started changing things. The Republicans lost control of the Senate and Trump lost his mind. There was an attempted insurrection as rightist ‘patriot’ nutbars stormed Congress to overturn a perfectly fine democratic election (so the courts say) and it’s now evident the sitting president will be impeached and later convicted so he can never again hold office. Big news.

The Republican Party has split after losing the House, the Senate and the White House which opens the way for four years Biden/Democratic big-spending. That will increase deficits, debt, engorge government, likely raise corporate taxes, hasten defeat of the virus, re-open the economy more rapidly and therefore fuel inflation and raise rates.

Yup. Coming. It was likely before January 6th. Now, in the aftermath, it’s a slam dunk. The bond market is already on the move. And that’s where mortgages are priced.

So, yeah lock in. Even break your loan if it makes sense. Just don’t be a rube.

152 comments ↓

#1 TurnerNation on 01.11.21 at 2:44 pm

What’s going on outside of Kanada?
People I know have friends, Family in Columbia, UAE areas and other places. Totally open life goes on there.
What gives here? Oh yes, a takedown of the (former) First World countries.

– Right on Schedule, interprovincial travel bans and Berlin Walls.

https://huddle.today/nova-scotia-tightens-border-with-new-brunswick/

– This from day one was about ending our travel rights, #stayhome. Stuck at home, social media is the way; now we see the Purges going on there. All part of the lockdown plan as this WW3 really is for our minds.
Big Brother already had kids, grandkids even years ago. Where were you?

In other first world countries citizens were trained to text the government before leaving the home. Travel bans, lockdowns and curfews. Cuban, North Korean style. No wonder our leaders and celebrities love these places. Most Kanadians no longer want their rights. Understandable after a year of mind programming.

You are free to leave your UN Smart Cities at any time, no really you are.
Here comes the sell job, more predictive programming. Even local travel is bad! The goal is a perma locked down New Global Order all controlled by Technology, travel passes. Just 28 more days guys…temporary.
All those politicians getting busted for travel was a set-up. Learn how the game is played lads. To get us hollering for the travel bans.

….
“Maritime Bus cuts northern routes, reduces others as pandemic takes a toll
Campbellton-Moncton and Fredericton-Edmundston routes cancelled
CBC News · Posted: Jan 05, 2021 12:34 PM AT | Last Updated: January

“Why some warn Ontario having ‘no plans’ to curb local travel could fuel COVID-19 spread”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/why-some-warn-ontario-having-no-plans-to-curb-local-travel-could-fuel-covid-19-spread-1.5866952?cmp=rss

https://twitter.com/TorontoStar/status/1348395867494113281
” @TorontoStar“It was a big mistake to say, ‘Pretty please don’t gather for Christmas.'”

“The Globe and Mail reports in its Saturday edition that WestJet Airlines is laying off 1,000 employees and slashing its flight schedule, blaming “volatile” demand for seats and uncertainty amid the COVID-19 pandemic. The Globe’s Eric Atkins and Robert Fife quote Ed Sims, WestJet’s chief executive officer, saying in a statement Friday: “Immediately following the federal government’s inbound testing announcement on Dec. 31, and with the continuation of the 14-day quarantine, we saw significant reductions in new bookings and unprecedented cancellations. We have advocated over the past 10 months for a co-ordinated testing regime on Canadian soil, but this hasty new measure is causing Canadian travellers unnecessary stress and confusion and may make travel unaffordable, unfeasible and inaccessible for Canadians for years to come.
© 2021 Canjex Publishing Ltd. All rights reserved.”

#2 Faron on 01.11.21 at 2:48 pm

#285 Sail Away on 01.11.21 at 1:34 pm

#283 Faron on 01.11.21 at 1:11 pm
#276 Sail Away on 01.11.21 at 12:36 pm

I apply extreme value distributions in my work and was pleased when someone here earlier pointed me to Nassim’s work on that very topic in markets. It’s fun when things align like that. But, yeah, tail hedging has to be thought of as insurance just as you buy home or car insurance. You steadily bleed a small, but affordable amount of money to prevent being cleaned out if something bad happens.

With markets, they always have restored themselves, so insurance is less justified. Your house obviously wont restore itself if it burns down. Essentially, there is less hysteresis in markets than in houses burning/not burning. For people like me who obsess over market moves, holding insurance can provide peace of mind that could help keep me from doing something dumb like selling at the bottom.

Regardless, I do not partake. I purchase HUV.TO for fun in my commission-free account, but only to the extent that I gain or lose the equivalent of dinner out on days like today (+1 dinner today, less after taxes). Holding VIX futures adds to cash bleed through paying for the daily futures roll, so isn’t a great way to hedge. However, the small amount I do buy and sell HUV has netted me a profit while also being slightly “insured”. But, this is a unique year. Generally HUV just exponentially decays with time.

Overall, I find the “shape” of the options market interesting in its higher dimensional space of the all the greeks, strike, expiration and put v call. That people can visualize this and determine where distortions in that shape exist is fascinating.

#3 Faron on 01.11.21 at 2:57 pm

W/re mortgages and brokers.

In buying our house recently, I’ve since learned that the whole thing operates like a cartel. Everyone was extremely nice and such, but peter the agent taps paul the broker and his friend jimmy the inspector and they all seem to work as a cohort, not to mention the other RE agents.

Anyhow, we got a rate of 1.94% 5yr fixed through a broker w/ our 20% down. He made it easy so we kind of rolled downhill with the process. But, now we are stuck with a bank we don’t even know (versus VanCity who I really like) and with a rate that’s just okay in light of other loans out there. Pretty meh, I’d say and lessons learned. Luckily, 1.94% is still damn cheap.

Further to the cartel, the home inspector (who our agent assured would make us run away from the house owing to his fine toothed comb) missed two blatant plumbing leaks under the house that are plainly visible among other things. Kicking myself for not crawling under before the purchase. We are happy here, but a little disgruntled with the process.

#4 Tan on 01.11.21 at 2:57 pm

Hi Mr Turner,

Why are the interest rates for auto loans still above 4%?
We thought we might finance a new (used) car on the last day of 2020. The finance manager at the dealership said there was no way she could get us rates below 4%, even though she could see if we have excellent credit.

We decided to buy with cash.
Should I have called my bank and asked for a lower rate?

Buy a new car and get 0%. – Garth

#5 Bguy1 on 01.11.21 at 3:02 pm

Really, you think 17 or 18 Republican Senators will vote to convict?

#6 Flop... on 01.11.21 at 3:02 pm

Reports have just started circling that Toyota Australia will repay 18 million in Jobkeeper funds after better than expected new car sales.

Jobkeeper for individuals is Australia’s version of CERB.

Toyota probably had the business version, which I believe in Canada is CEWS.

Anyway, 18 million is a chunk, and I’m sure a lot of other fine companies in Australia and Canada will follow their lead to return unnecessary funding.

Hang on!

I smell pork…

M46BC

#7 Elon Fanboy on 01.11.21 at 3:10 pm

Why hasn’t Facebook been deplatformed? Many of those US riots were planned on FB groups. Double standards?

“Because FB didn’t do it, Bubba. – Garth”

————-

Neither did Parlour.

AWS deplatformed Parler due to “not being confident Parler could properly police it’s platform regarding content that encourages or incites violence against others”.

#HangMikePence was trending on Twitter a couple of days ago.

When does Twitter get taken down?

Double standards.

#8 S.Bby on 01.11.21 at 3:13 pm

It is astounding at how low the bar is set for the real estate industry in general.

#9 miketheengineer on 01.11.21 at 3:25 pm

Hey Garth:

What happens in the event there is a bank run due to Covid shutting everything down. Ie what happens if a big enough group of people decide that the market is going to go for a big poo and decides on mass to go an pull everything from the market.

What happens to the government. Can you explain this to me….or anyone else. If companies are not mfg, then there may be no profits and we may have hit a peak, market speaking. Ie a downward spiral.

I can see food retailers being the only Winners here.

Michael

Not happening. – Garth

#10 Bill on 01.11.21 at 3:34 pm

Here’s what’s going on…more control.
Trudeau is full speed ahead on this.

• Prior to Covid governments were already broke, having racked up
massive deficits & debts
• Now those debt levels are off the charts
• These governments have been handing out money to locked down
citizens & now how will they be able to stop?
• This is the perfect setup for Universal Basic Income
• These governments will need to drastically raise capital to continue this
new agenda
• Digital currencies will be a key tool for them to track & tax every
transaction you make
• And they do NOT want to allow Bitcoin & the other crypto currencies to
survive
• The sales pitch will be all about curtailing terrorism & criminal activity,
but the real goal here is to collect taxes & fees on every transaction
• This will be a big story in 2021

#11 Linda on 01.11.21 at 3:34 pm

#5 ‘B’ – normally the idea of Republicans voting to convict would be laughable. That however was before the personal touch, where Republicans as well as Democrats had to barricade themselves away or flee outright from those breaking into the Capitol Building. Nothing like mob action to bring home the fact things have gotten out of control. Frightened people are far more likely to react to those who placed them in that state. Like it or not, ‘the Donald’ did indeed act in ways that at the very least encouraged said mob. Even as his fellow Republicans ran or hid, he was calling others asking to have vote results overturned rather than doing anything to aid those under threat. Somehow I just don’t see that being forgotten or forgiven by his fellow Republicans.

#12 Do these guys ... on 01.11.21 at 3:40 pm

moonlight as telemarketers?

#13 SeeB on 01.11.21 at 3:40 pm

@Garth – Regardless of any previous comments, I wish to recognize the time and effort you took yesterday (and so much more effort over the pandemic in general), in giving clear and truthful rebuttles to the most agregious denialists.

Your overall commitment to helping regular Canadians do the best they can within the current (broken) system, not to mention the mentally stimulating entertainment, has been invaluable to me and my wife in making sounder financial decisions, and avoiding the trap of a crushing mortgage in Vancouver.

Anyway, some have asked me why I keep coming back despite being a “humourless lefty”, and that’s pretty much the main reason.

Thank you.

#14 Apocalypse NOW on 01.11.21 at 3:46 pm

PELOSI DEMANDS TRUMP GONE IN 24 HOURS OR ELSE!

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20210111-pelosi-sets-24-hour-deadline-to-remove-trump-or-impeachment-goes-ahead

Probability of a nuclear event by Tuesday?

“Yup. Coming”

PREPARE

#15 Shirl Clarts on 01.11.21 at 3:48 pm

#3 Faron on 01.11.21 at 2:57 pm

You go it, Faron. Everyone is super nice to the buyer because they are the first domino to fall – no one gets paid unless the buyer pulls the trigger.

But don’t worry, one day (hopefully, not for 20 years) when you are the seller the whole system works in your favour!

I’ve learned (also late), NEVER EVER go with an inspector recommended by your agent. Their relationship benefits them, not you.

#16 Burnaby Boy on 01.11.21 at 3:49 pm

#1 TurnerNation Yes indeed. “The goal is a perma locked down New Global Order all controlled by Technology,”

When Corporations can shut down a sitting President…..!!!! But as this is a money site I guess the stock market is going to boom, now that the corporations rule.

#17 yvr_lurker on 01.11.21 at 3:52 pm

Fortunately Dave is really good with numbers and financial literacy. Maybe I am stupid, but if you have good credit why on earth would one go to a mortgage broker (and deal with all of their schemes) when you can get a 5 year from one of the big banks on your own for a little less than 2%. Are these brokers only useful when your credit score is too low? I have never used them in our two purchases over the years and feel that the bank gave us their premium rate (after some back and forth).

#18 IHCTD9 on 01.11.21 at 3:57 pm

I was hoping to try ice fishing this year, I don’t think it’s gonna happen. Ice is too thin, they already pulled a guy off the bottom this year and the ice has only just shown up.

Hardly any time to get enough ice out there before it starts to go away permanently. Heck, just before Christmas I went over the bridge and there were 4 **boats** out there trolling the mouth of the river.

I’m going to hold off till next winter.

#19 Joseph R. on 01.11.21 at 3:58 pm

#7 Elon Fanboy on 01.11.21 at 3:10 pm
Why hasn’t Facebook been deplatformed? Many of those US riots were planned on FB groups. Double standards?

“Because FB didn’t do it, Bubba. – Garth”

————-

Neither did Parlour.

AWS deplatformed Parler due to “not being confident Parler could properly police it’s platform regarding content that encourages or incites violence against others”.

#HangMikePence was trending on Twitter a couple of days ago.

When does Twitter get taken down?

Double standards.

—————————————-

Indeed, the mob on January 6 wanted to kidnap the VP and hang him. They view Pence as a traitor for confirming the EC votes to Biden on January 6th. That’s the (in)famous picture of the gallows taken during the storming of the Capitol. Twitter did a purge of many Trump activists that were involved in the event.

I am to assume the accounts connect with that hashtag were purged as well.

#20 IHCTD9 on 01.11.21 at 4:01 pm

#13 SeeB on 01.11.21 at 3:40 pm

Anyway, some have asked me why I keep coming back despite being a “humourless lefty”, and that’s pretty much the main reason.

Thank you.
____

Maybe you should just start drinking. Might be just what your sense of humour needs to be set free.

#21 Pablosbadger on 01.11.21 at 4:03 pm

My idiot brother in law qualified as a mortgage broker last year.

Here’s a summary of his CV before joining the world of high finance:

1. After high school: got run over by an old lady in the parking lot of a LCBO (if you get him drunk he’ll gleefully tell you that he jumped in front of the car). Got $22k compo and somehow managed to ride out the next 5 years on this with no job.

2. Got a job working for his hockey buddy digging pools in new subdivisions in Oakville. Got fired after 3 years for installing a pool at the wrong address (no seriously, had a team of Portuguese laborers dig a hole for six days and install plumbing next door to the house that ordered it).

3. Internet installer for Bell. Crashed the van into a stationary garage door after about a month. Was fired for leaving the scene (he was late for hockey practice aparently).

4. Spent the last 5 years working crappy jobs (hotel porter / uber driver) and attempting to sue his former employers when they justifiably fire him for incompetence. It worked twice thanks to Ontario labor law.

5. Mortgage advisor.

#22 S.O on 01.11.21 at 4:07 pm

What stops the banks from imposing some sort of yield curve control to keep interest rates down when the economy pics up??? Because it seems the world has a debt problem and they probably wont be able to afford a rate increase.

#23 Flop... on 01.11.21 at 4:10 pm

I wouldn’t be too hard on real estate agents.

It’s not like everyday you look at the news and there is a story about a real estate agent caught doing something nefarious.

I mean, I just checked the newsfeed, nothing to report.

Stop the presses!

What was this guy up to…

M46BC

“B.C. realtor collects rental income, does not give money to property owner, gets suspended and fined $25,000.

The Real Estate Council of B.C. has disciplined a realtor for misconduct in connection with a rental property.

The RECBC suspended the licence of Peter Christopher Dolecki for two months until February 22, 2021

It also ordered the trading representative with RE/MAX Westcoast in Richmond to pay a fine of $25,000.”

https://www.straight.com/news/bc-realtor-collects-rental-income-does-not-give-money-to-property-owner-gets-suspended-and

#24 SeeB on 01.11.21 at 4:10 pm

#16 Burnaby Boy on 01.11.21 at 3:49 pm

#1 TurnerNation Yes indeed. “The goal is a perma locked down New Global Order all controlled by Technology,”

When Corporations can shut down a sitting President…..!!!! But as this is a money site I guess the stock market is going to boom, now that the corporations rule.

————————————————————-

What evidence do you have that the lock-downs are intended to become permanent besides your own “feelings”? None. The current lock-down is clearly not a benefit to anyone, including the ruling wealth class. It will end.

As for worrying about your speech, corporations always had the power to shut people down on their own platforms. Private ownership of these spaces is the INTENDED consequence of the capitalist experiment.

Privatizing everything leads to what you apparently abhor most, yet conservatives continue to agitate for it.

Corporations and wealthy individuals clearly buy the politicians with donations, then after election, hammer said politicians with lobbyists who expect them to “return the favour”, all while promising general benefits to the public that very rarely materialize.

Basically your only recourse is to “nationalize” Twitter et al, or reclassify them as utilities. If you can make that happen that’d be great. Lefties would love it. Though some on the extreme periphery might not like the consequences of trying to pass off their lies and hate speech in THAT forum, where real legal consequences would have greater bearing…

#25 SeeB on 01.11.21 at 4:13 pm

#20 IHCTD9 on 01.11.21 at 4:01 pm

#13 SeeB on 01.11.21 at 3:40 pm

Anyway, some have asked me why I keep coming back despite being a “humourless lefty”, and that’s pretty much the main reason.

Thank you.
____

Maybe you should just start drinking. Might be just what your sense of humour needs to be set free.

———————————————————-

I swear I have one, I just don’t find all of the same stuff funny. I’m sure we’d find plenty of overlap outside politics.

#26 Faron on 01.11.21 at 4:20 pm

#18 IHCTD9 on 01.11.21 at 3:57 pm

Creeping effects of climate change.

Not as relevant for you out east, but here on the west coast we are experiencing the La Nina that wasn’t/isn’t. La Nina tends to be stormy and wet, but mostly consistently it brings a cold winter to southern BC. We have the storms, but it is warm.

Out surfing yesterday, the rivermouths were not nearly as icy as normal owing to no/little snow up on the ridge. The sun was out and with a black wetsuit, it felt pretty comfortable. Still a lot of winter left, but eventually the Arctic just isn’t going to get cold enough in the dark season to send much cold air our way.

Long range, it looks like an Arctic outbreak is shaping up for the end of Jan. Definitely cold enough to put ice on the lakes or thicken what’s there.

#27 Catalyst on 01.11.21 at 4:23 pm

I know you are an honorable person so I will take your word for it garth if you say you confirmed them but by my calculation the 2.04% is the blend (probably from a 1.5%) which offsets the penalty. What’s wrong in your post is the mortgage amount in the offered scenario is not $571k but rather the original $545k and you can see this by the monthly payment amount which is confirmed if you model it.

In other words, the broker did offer a solution which would have saved this individual ~$12.7k and got slandered for it.

#28 Bill on 01.11.21 at 4:29 pm

Big Tech runs the show.
“The ability of a handful of people to control our public discourse has never been more obvious.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/technology/trump-twitter-ban.html

#29 IHCTD9 on 01.11.21 at 4:29 pm

#3 Faron on 01.11.21 at 2:57 pm

Further to the cartel, the home inspector (who our agent assured would make us run away from the house owing to his fine toothed comb) missed two blatant plumbing leaks under the house that are plainly visible among other things. Kicking myself for not crawling under before the purchase. We are happy here, but a little disgruntled with the process.
_____

Ahh, no biggie. Our main line to the septic field cracked in the crotch of a Tee fitting last year. I was doing some work down in the cellar when someone upstairs flushed, seconds later I hear a stream of “water” hit the floor…

I found these rubber couplers sized for ABS pipe called “Fernco’s”. Fixing this problem with new ABS fittings and pipe would have been a royal PITA, but with these Fernco fittings, 3 strategic cuts and 15 minutes later the job was done. Plus, they allow some flex – the lack of which might have been the cause of the original crack. Fernco’s are awesome, write it down.

Anyway, I’m off to the LCBO – hopefully I’ll see you there SeeB

#30 Midnight's on 01.11.21 at 4:31 pm

Someone should pass Mike Pompeo VOA speech to the CBC and Trudeau.
https://youtu.be/wXbzkPNvPYw

#31 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 4:34 pm

Dave (and you My Liege) forgot this:

Opportunity Cost

Dave calculates if he takes the deal he is out $20,800.

Dave saves $261 per month in payments over 49 months (= $2,647 – $2,386).

If Dave can find an investment that returns more than 1.898%, Dave earns more than $20,800.

For example, Dave finds some investment vehicle (ETF?) that he can contribute $261 to per month, yields a 4.89% rate of return (compounded annually), he will have accumulated this amount of money after 49 months:

$50,000

I think that beats the $20,800 hands down.

[FV Annuity]

#32 tkid on 01.11.21 at 4:37 pm

Apparently Parler has been hacked and duplicated prior to the site coming down, and now it is all up on the ‘net a la Wikileaks.

#33 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 4:42 pm

PS:

Dave, stick the ETF in a TFSA so PM Trudeau can not get his hands on the $50K.

But, too late, too late.

#34 theoryAndPractice on 01.11.21 at 5:06 pm

#3 Faron on 01.11.21 at 2:57 pm

Adding this to your comment:

The right procedure in Canada , Never ever tell your inspector information to your agent and other party agent beforehand including your inspector where he is going to inspect ! Meet closer location, the inspector must not know the actual address until that day you meet in a common location and take that inspector to the address where he is going to inspect .

As you said all of them are Cartel and there is conflict of interest when money involved! They should not know the inspector information nor the Inspector should know their information. The report must be handed over at that time of inspection, not after. But again, will that be allowed to happen in any transaction in Canada ? I suspect. it must be the base rule !

#35 jess on 01.11.21 at 5:17 pm

6 Faron on 01.11.21 at 4:20 pm

medea project -the eyes in space

#36 Sail Away on 01.11.21 at 5:17 pm

#31 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 4:34 pm
Dave (and you My Liege) forgot this:

Opportunity Cost

Dave calculates if he takes the deal he is out $20,800.

Dave saves $261 per month in payments over 49 months (= $2,647 – $2,386).

If Dave can find an investment that returns more than 1.898%, Dave earns more than $20,800.

For example, Dave finds some investment vehicle (ETF?) that he can contribute $261 to per month, yields a 4.89% rate of return (compounded annually), he will have accumulated this amount of money after 49 months:

$50,000

I think that beats the $20,800 hands down.

————-

You shouldn’t try to do math when smoking the good stuff, DV.

#37 Randy Cross on 01.11.21 at 5:18 pm

Trumpsara…the New Republics…The World Changes…Tyranny and Corruption Ends…It’s all gonna be better…Get Ready

#38 crossbordershopper on 01.11.21 at 5:19 pm

debt slaves arguing over a piece of bread. Wake up, dont pay interest or insurance or anything to anyone be your own man.
My dad is 84, has never had a loan or a credit card or auto loan or anything. old school CASH. If you dont have it dont buy it. You probably never needed it anyway.
what a world people have created with funny money.

#39 Editrix on 01.11.21 at 5:27 pm

I renewed at the S bank last week. 5 years fixed at 1.87. Counting my lucky stars. [email protected] tried to convince me to pay a lump sum. I said I would when rates are up at 5. In the meantime it can work better for me in my investments.

#40 Sail Away on 01.11.21 at 5:34 pm

A university professor friend bought me lunch today in return for my thoughts on his RRSP portfolio as he was slightly concerned with the returns.

Oh my. Over the past 10 years, his portfolio has returned 7.14%. Total. His advisor thinks the time is ripe to pick up some TSLA and Bitcoin. And my friend is just one of his many clients. Good God.

#41 The West on 01.11.21 at 5:39 pm

Your post today is pertinent. There are money vultures everywhere who always have a “good deal”. Most are financially illiterate and they pay dearly for it in the long run – especially as desperation sets in.

#42 Billy Buoy on 01.11.21 at 5:51 pm

The Central Banks will keep interest rates down by printing and buying MBS as they HAVE NO OTHER option at this point until a system reset.

Case closed for the 3588633689 time.

My god, There is too much personal debt and government debt to let interest rates climb. Inflation 101.

No, Nada, none,zippo,nil chances of any significant rate hikes.

#43 Tony Baloney on 01.11.21 at 5:56 pm

Comment #1, “Turner nation”: Get help.

#44 Cici on 01.11.21 at 5:59 pm

WOW, just WOW… good work Dave and Garth exposing those Frankenumbers and Frankenpractices.

Absolutely absurd lack of regulatory oversight. But hmmm… maybe I should shut up and become a licensed mortgage broker. Well, this week’s busy, maybe next week instead.

#45 Frank Burns on 01.11.21 at 6:07 pm

What’s your take on similar numbers but with a blend and extend?
400k
Current rate 2.94 fixed 2 years remain
Offer 2.08 fixed for additional 5 years?
Facing this right now.
Many thanks!

#46 zee on 01.11.21 at 6:15 pm

Garth BOC has already said they will control the yield curve so why do you keep spreading misinformation.

So Mortgage rates will remain low regardless of what is happening in the Bond Market.

CBs control short-term rates. Yields on longer bonds, set by the market, influence mortgage costs. You are incorrect. – Garth

#47 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 6:26 pm

#36 Sail Away

Well, you know I looked at the calcs and said fine but in the back of my mind was the thought something is missing here?

Ahhhh…invest the monthly savings.

Not a surprise though, I mean $261/mo x 49 mo = $12,789 with 0% interest. So you know if you buy ETF’s a bit at a time (monthly) you’re bound to do better. Breakeven with his $20,800 is at annual compound interest rate of 1.898%.

It’s just a simple/ordinary Future Value Annuity calculation. It’s not Star Wars you know.

And stick the damn ETF’s or whatever into a TFSA so Ottawa can’t get their money grubbing hands on the proceeds.

And I had a rum and coke afterwards (not before).

Here’s the formula and an example:

https://www.investopedia.com/retirement/calculating-present-and-future-value-of-annuities/#:~:text=The%20future%20value%20of%20an,to%20produce%20those%20future%20payments.

Google Sheets’d it in about 5 minutes. Input as a Model so when you change the % you get an immediate answer. Use Goal Seek to find the break even interest rate for $20,800.

Here other returns at different interest rates:

1% (GIC) = $16,399.89
2% = $21,386.49
5% = $51,789.36
7% = $98,918.74

and so forth. Got the numbers as fast as you can input the %. Used to teach Modeling in Excel to the Beancounters and Engineers (2 books, few hundred pages each, 4 books with Lab Exercises – Beginner, Advanced…the above is in the Beginner Book).

#48 jess on 01.11.21 at 6:40 pm

‘honorary degrees’ removed from Rudy
and trump has received 2 that have been rescinded however, he is really moaning over the pga cancellation at his new jersey club!

the mask refusniks
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/01/09/gop-lawmakers-refuse-masks-capitol-riot-raju-nr-vpx.cnn
rep bonnie coleman tests positive

#49 Sail Away on 01.11.21 at 6:52 pm

#47 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 6:26 pm

Used to teach Modeling in Excel to the Beancounters and Engineers (2 books, few hundred pages each, 4 books with Lab Exercises – Beginner, Advanced…the above is in the Beginner Book).

———–

Well, then I guess it’s time for an engineer to return the favour:

You are intermixing months and years and compounding (incorrectly) monthly. Sorry bro, I tried the subtle approach.

#50 Doug t on 01.11.21 at 7:00 pm

#10 bill

Pretty much spot on

#51 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 7:08 pm

#45 Frank Burns

400k
Current rate 2.94 fixed 2 years remain
Offer 2.08 fixed for additional 5 years?

You need to provide the remaining principal and amount on the mortgage like Dave did in his example (e.g., penalty for a more complete picture). Also, compare Apples to Apples over the 2 year period.

Assuming $400K is what you still owe, was amortized over 25 years, and 2 of the 5 year term remain, at 2.94% your payment ought to be:

$1,880.69

Over that 2 year period, $400K, 25 year amortization, 5 year term, 2.08%, your payment ought to be:

$1,709.29

Savings per month for 2 years is:

$171.40

Future Value Annuity that (take that money and invest it every month) over 2 years here is what you get at the end of 2 years at various rates of return (if you do not invest that money, after 2 years you will have saved $4,113.60 total):

1% $4,623.25
2% $5,214.31
5% $7,627.64
7% $9,971.48

and so forth.

The rest, you’re on your own like where to invest the monthly savings, penalty clause etc.

#52 Jimtheeconomist on 01.11.21 at 7:13 pm

#9 miketheengineer on 01.11.21 at 3:25 pm

Hey Garth:

__________________

Hey, Michael…. You might want to stick with engineering.
__________________

What happens in the event there is a bank run due to Covid shutting everything down. Ie what happens if a big enough group of people decide that the market is going to go for a big poo and decides on mass to go an pull everything from the market.

____________________

If everyone pulls everything from the market, I back up the biggest truck I can find and fill it to the brim like it’s March 2020. Then I party like it’s 2029!
____________________

What happens to the government. Can you explain this to me….or anyone else. If companies are not mfg, then there may be no profits and we may have hit a peak, market speaking. Ie a downward spiral.

I can see food retailers being the only Winners here.

_____________________________
Yes, but certainly not “Winners”!

And the food retailers need to pay their rent, so don’t forget about the landlords getting their share (REITs) . And the trucking/logistics companies that get the food to the retailer.
__________________

Michael

Not happening. – Garth

#53 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 7:17 pm

#49 Sail Away

NO I am not.

Rather you do not understand a FV Annuity calculation.

All you are doing is investing a monthly sum at some interest rate for so many months. It can be no simpler.

The 1st month worth of savings earns interest for 49 months. The 2nd month worth of savings earns 48 months of interest, the last month earns no interest as the period = 0.

Period was the one number, 49 mo. Where are you getting intermixing from?

Having taught a few thousand of you, you are typical for an Engineer. Thick when it comes to Annuities…almost all of them are save the odd one in a class.

#54 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 7:19 pm

The impeachment, if successful, will set a terrible precedent. It will mean that a president can be impeached for the actions of a few of his alleged supporters. And indeed the idiots among them.

There was nothing in the speech calling for violence. Indeed the opposite. He called for a peaceful march. People march in front of the capital all the time in favor or opposition to whatever is going on inside.

But it is all just political theater. There is only 9 days left at this point. Trump won’t be running in 2024 because he won’t be able to get the nomination. His days of being president are over. And now that he is banned from Twitter I don’t see how he remains much of a political force either. MAGA is dead. Another leader will have to arise to appeal to the 75 million Trump voters. But I think the democrats can be fairly confident that won’t happen by 2024, so Biden/Harris get 2 terms. Assuming Biden makes it to 86. Lots of people do.

If Trump does get impeached it won’t mean much with only 9 days left except that he will lose his pension, travel allowance, and security detail. The later being the most concerning other than that he has his own. That is unless his businesses go belly up again, which looks like a reasonable forecast given the events since Nov. 3rd.

———————————–

Anyway, I am more interested at this point in what is going on with Parler and Gab. Gab is in better shape because they have their own servers, but as everyone knows by now Parler used Amazon’s web hosting services and got switched off. And now it seems that immediately prior to that they were hacked and most of the archives stolen, including personal information. Coincidence?

They will be offline for a while because they require a pretty large vendor and nobody will touch them right now. Building their own server farm would take some time and cost a lot of money, which they don’t have.

Whether you are glad Parler is gone or not doesn’t really matter. We have to look at the precedent. It means we have moved into an era where the big 9 are able to police the internet in any manner they chose even when the actual police are not policing it. Parler claims that they have always cooperated with any actual concerns from law enforcement and regulatory bodies. But apparently that is no longer enough. You must also de-platform Candice Owens or no servers for you.

I think this is more than just a shot across the bow. This is an all out assault on free speech, and it has exposed just how vulnerable you are if you use second party vendors. Many people and businesses are going to rethink the way they use the internet, cloud services especially. Distrust will rise. In the same way nobody really believes the MSM anymore, nobody is going to believe social media.

But even though it seems the big 9 have consolidated almost complete control over the internet, they could only do so because we trusted them with our data. The actual structure of the internet is unchanged and Parler, or something like it, will be back, only this time not relying on Amazon.

If I were an IT manager, viewing these events, there is no way going forward I would use any web based services. Everything will stay on the company’s network and equipment. The internet would become nothing more than a communication device using VPN. No Office 360, no Google Docs, no OneDrive. And no Zoom. Nothing that isn’t inside the VPN and hosted on proprietary servers. Heck, I am not even sure I should be backing up my personal files to Norton anymore. Except that they already have them so I suppose the cat is already out of the bag. I am not even sure it is safe to have a Gmail account anymore. Can we really trust that anymore? Can you really send details of a potential business dealing over Gmail? Not without encryption, me thinks. And then I think we are not too far away from Google deciding who can use Gmail and who can’t. So we are back to using Canada Post.

Trust is the foundation of society and commerce. These events have proven that there is no one to trust anymore. Maybe there never was, and this was just a lesson we needed to relearn.

#55 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.11.21 at 7:23 pm

A Million Militia March…

Greeeaaat.

The “Land of the Conspiracy” + its right to bear arms…

A recipe for disaster.

When all is said and done.

Trump should spend a few decades in prison for inciting armed rebellion.

#56 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 7:27 pm

#49 Sail Away

Forgot to mention, with a class of Engineers taking a Financial Mgmt course to get a nice spread in marks, my Bell Curve, all I did was this, 4 different questions using these formulas:

FV Annuity End of Period
FV Annuity Beginning of Period
PV Annuity End of Period
PV Annuity Beginning of Period

Worked like a charm.

Would of worked on you too from your Comments.

#57 Twisted Sister on 01.11.21 at 7:30 pm

#21 Pablosbadger on 01.11.21 at 4:03 pm

My idiot brother in law qualified as a mortgage broker last year.

Here’s a summary of his CV before joining the world of high finance:

1. After high school: got run over by an old lady in the parking lot of a LCBO (if you get him drunk he’ll gleefully tell you that he jumped in front of the car). Got $22k compo and somehow managed to ride out the next 5 years on this with no job.

2. Got a job working for his hockey buddy digging pools in new subdivisions in Oakville. Got fired after 3 years for installing a pool at the wrong address (no seriously, had a team of Portuguese laborers dig a hole for six days and install plumbing next door to the house that ordered it).

3. Internet installer for Bell. Crashed the van into a stationary garage door after about a month. Was fired for leaving the scene (he was late for hockey practice aparently).

4. Spent the last 5 years working crappy jobs (hotel porter / uber driver) and attempting to sue his former employers when they justifiably fire him for incompetence. It worked twice thanks to Ontario labor law.

5. Mortgage advisor

———>

AND you ended up with his sister! How’s that working out for you?
You better hope the BIL doesn’t stumble across your comments. On second thought, by the sounds of it…. He probably can’t read anyway.

#58 Faron on 01.11.21 at 7:32 pm

Just watched some staggering footage of rioters pulling DC Metro police out of the capitol, down a flight of stairs and beating them with hockey sticks and flag poles and fists. One has to wonder why the remaining officers inside didn’t pull their side arms. All I can think of is that, because they were severely outnumbered, they deemed it unwise to escalate with firepower against a mob who they had to think were armed similarly if not with more powerful weapons. I can’t imagine how horrifying it must have been to be one of the dragged or one of the next on the front watching your colleague get helplessly pulled into a rabid mob.

Nonplused says these were the actions of a few of the alleged supporters of Trump. No biggie. God help us. And him, a purported Christian. – Garth

#59 DON on 01.11.21 at 7:32 pm

‘Step back and see things for what they are, not what they seem to be’

Helps to shed your own bias first.

#60 dosouth on 01.11.21 at 7:33 pm

In a bit of defense of brokers, we have worked with one for over 20 years and have bought and sold 10 properties. We have agreed to disagree at times and he even sent us to one lender that he did not have a relationship with because they had a better deal than he could obtain.

Brokers should be used if you have financial savvy and can make decisions based on educating yourself. I believe that approx. 75% of the population just resign with their banks when mortgages come up, hence why those people should not be working with brokers if they are not concerned about saving.

You are still responsible for your decisions and there are scammers in every industry. We are lucky and smart enough to have found and continue working with a well trained and integral part of our property investing. Do your home work.

#61 Faron on 01.11.21 at 7:41 pm

#51 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 7:27 pm

Check your math DV. Or divide your rate by 12. Or go to bed and come back to this after your espresso.

#62 TurnerNation on 01.11.21 at 7:50 pm

Small business/The economy.
If you doubt this not an economic b0mbing then read this

https://mobile.twitter.com/dmrider/status/1347159483156492288
“Inbox: Richmond Hill’s deputy mayor
@CarminePerrelli calls on
@fordnation to not extend COVID-19 lockdown in place for @YorkRegionGovt”

I always knew it was coming but when…oh yes the alleged “UN Agenda 21”. Global rollout for 2021, what a conspiracy theory that was!!

2016, 2013:

#206 TurnerNation on 03.07.16 at 3:57 pm
See in the First World we get economically b0mbed.

#105 TurnerNation on 12.09.13 at 8:01 am
Remember, 1st World countries get economically b0mbed, 2nds and 3rds get b0mbed

#63 Wrk.dover on 01.11.21 at 8:04 pm

#18 IHCTD9 on 01.11.21 at 3:57 pm
I was hoping to try ice fishing this year, I don’t think it’s gonna happen. Ice is too thin, they already pulled a guy off the bottom this year and the ice has only just shown up.
————————————————————

So nobody is re-living mis-spent youth in the family car on the Humber between Bloor and Lake Ontario?

#64 Faron on 01.11.21 at 8:04 pm

#58 Faron on 01.11.21 at 7:32 pm

Nonplused says these were the actions of a few of the alleged supporters of Trump. No biggie. God help us. And him, a purported Christian. – Garth

The break-down of decorum that Trump began with Obama birtherism through “murderers and rapists” through Charlottown and through umpteen lies and hate, through election lies were always unsettling, but it wasn’t exactly clear why as he continued on unscathed. Now we know exactly why and what it has begotten us. Riots are spooky no matter where and what, but this is a different kind of pandora’s box that has been opened.

#65 Sail Away on 01.11.21 at 8:08 pm

#53 Dolce Vita on 01.11.21 at 7:17 pm
#49 Sail Away

NO I am not. [wrong, that is]

———–

Sigh…

One error is acceptable, twice is a bit much… but thrice? I have no words.

And your response #51 to Frank is wrong in the same way. Frank, you may want to get a second opinion on those numbers.

I’ll keep this simple:

$261 invested monthly for 49 months at 1.89% compounded annually (1.89% APR) = $13,472.29

$261 invested monthly for 49 months at 1.831% compounded monthly (20.11% APR) = $20,800

Ok?

#66 -=withwings=- on 01.11.21 at 8:08 pm

Service providers that service twitter, such as their ad services, are welcome to drop twitter just like service providers that service Parler, such as their wen services, are welcome to drop them.

This freedom was decided on 7-2 by the US Supreme court in a case widely supported by Trump and his supporters. (Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 U.S. ___ (2018)

@#54 nonplussed

Parler claims that they have always cooperated with any actual concerns from law enforcement and regulatory bodies.

Parler has never claimed that, they have always claimed the OPPOSITE of that.

But apparently that is no longer enough.

Classic con, make a false straw man statement, then ramble on about how unjust things are. The pattern continues…

#67 DON on 01.11.21 at 8:26 pm

Used to be lots of grand caravans out there…but they are slowly being replaced with brand new family size SUVs and lots of toyota trucks, all in the middle of uncertainty. The race to out debt your friends/neighbours is on.

Michelin Tire laid off 2300 in France last week.

#68 Tyberius on 01.11.21 at 8:31 pm

Meanwhile, in Italy “50,000 restauranteurs have decided to open up against Covid19 restrictions, lunch and dinner, banding together to form an alliance. This is the only way to stop this, mass civil disobedience.”

https://twitter.com/itstime2rise/status/1348550964135923712

Quick, have a look before this is flagged as ‘hate-speech’ – and deplatformed by Jackie Dorsey, technocrat.

#69 Tyberius on 01.11.21 at 8:38 pm

#21 Pablosbadger on 01.11.21 at 4:03 pm

My idiot brother in law qualified as a mortgage broker last year.

Here’s a summary of his CV before joining the world of high finance:

1. After high school: got run over by an old lady in the parking lot of a LCBO (if you get him drunk he’ll gleefully tell you that he jumped in front of the car). Got $22k compo and somehow managed to ride out the next 5 years on this with no job.

2. Got a job working for his hockey buddy digging pools in new subdivisions in Oakville. Got fired after 3 years for installing a pool at the wrong address (no seriously, had a team of Portuguese laborers dig a hole for six days and install plumbing next door to the house that ordered it).

3. Internet installer for Bell. Crashed the van into a stationary garage door after about a month. Was fired for leaving the scene (he was late for hockey practice aparently).

4. Spent the last 5 years working crappy jobs (hotel porter / uber driver) and attempting to sue his former employers when they justifiably fire him for incompetence. It worked twice thanks to Ontario labor law.

5. Mortgage advisor

———————————————————-

Just wait and see what comes in at #6 (after a short carreer as Mortgage advisor):

Finance Minister

(when that spot is vacated by Freeland, bound on the leadership of Liberals).

#70 Scott Pierror on 01.11.21 at 8:41 pm

In 1995, 5 year fixed rate mortgage rates were 10.5% to 10.75%. Until we get anything above 7% to 8% like back in 2000, they are a joke.

It is all manipulated, rigged. The end game I see is confiscation of houses, condos etc. and everyone will have to live in government housing. Welcome to soviet style forced government housing and they will choose who you live with too. This is what they did in the USSR. Most people today are clueless anyway about history and socialism, communism, marxism, liberalism and as they are all extensions of each other.

#71 Ustabe on 01.11.21 at 8:43 pm

The impeachment, if successful, will set a terrible precedent. It will mean that a president can be impeached for the actions of a few of his alleged supporters. And indeed the idiots among them.

I guess the US should save impeachment for whenever someone lies about receiving consensual sex.

You said in a previous post that you “cast a wide net” when getting your info. I’m left wondering what kind of shape this net is in. Because my headlines sure don’t seem to match up with your headlines. Even NR and NPR are aligned! That is National Review and National Public Radio, btw.

A few years ago when I first came here I looked forward to your comments, your interpretation of things. But you have moved from that all the way to kook. You still carrying water for all things Trump in face of current events is bizarre behaviour.

The impeachment, if successful, will send a strong message that the US government and its people won’t allow for Trump like behaviour going forward.

Trump, Parler, book deals being canceled, whatever, are not over reach, they are consequences.

Consequences must be carried out otherwise there are no consequences. My children learned that when they were toddlers.

#72 SeeB on 01.11.21 at 8:47 pm

#29 IHCTD9 on 01.11.21 at 4:29 pm

Anyway, I’m off to the LCBO – hopefully I’ll see you there SeeB

————————————————————-

Winter time and sun’s down already, so whisky is in order. Highland Park is my current favourite. Even the basic 12 year has a good balance. I also have a bottle of All-father and an 18yr Viking Pride when I feel celebratory. Usual go-to for a desert malt is Aberlour 12, though a Jameson or quality bourbon on the rocks brings joy all the same.

#73 Cici on 01.11.21 at 8:56 pm

#31 Dolce Vita

Hmmm, don’t know what a Forward Value Annuity is, but they sure pay great!

I think you should tear yourself away from the spreadsheet and re-read your own comment:

“For example, Dave finds some investment vehicle (ETF?) that he can contribute $261 to per month, yields a 4.89% rate of return (compounded annually), he will have accumulated this amount of money after 49 months:

$50,000”

In your comment you only mentioned a 4.89% interest rate and an ETF, not annuities. You don’t need a spreadsheet or any calculator to see that a $261 per month investment at 4.89% is not going to grow into $50,000 in 49 months without any other initial investment amount.

Sail Away is right. Any simple compound interest calculator will prove that and provide the correct digits.

#74 Lead Paint on 01.11.21 at 8:59 pm

Faron, Dolce Vita, Sail Away

Time to share your models and calcs in free Google sheet, let the blog dogs decide.

#75 Craig Stackson on 01.11.21 at 9:00 pm

Tan, interest rates are only low for fore 1st mortgages and that is it. All other personal and other debt, lines of credit, auto loans, personal loans, 2nd, 3rd mortgages, credit cards, construction loans, renovation loans, boat loans, motorcycle loans etc. etc. are all much higher 3% to 30%.

You don’t get it. Low interest rates are no for most consumers no matter how great your credit is. Paying cash is all we will do and never use debt. It is all a bunch of BS.

#76 John in Mtl on 01.11.21 at 9:19 pm

#54 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 7:19 pm

Amen Bro, you definitely get it! I hope people here have read your comment too.

#77 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.11.21 at 9:27 pm

@#54 Nonplused = minus
“The internet would become nothing more than a communication device using VPN. No Office 360, no Google Docs, no OneDrive. And no Zoom. Nothing that isn’t inside the VPN and hosted on proprietary servers.”

++++

Gee.
People will actually have to talk to each other?
As opposed to sharing endless, unsubstantiated conspiracy drivel?

Or your horrified realization that …..what goes on the internet…stays on the internet.

Newsflash Minus.
Dont be so naive.
Whats App aka Facebook, Amazon, Google, ……all of them…….

Track every electronic device you use to communicate.
Where you are, what you buy, how long you look, how much you spend, who your contacts are, what type of pictures you take, on and on and on.
Makes the customer specific advertising that much more profitable.

#78 Ben on 01.11.21 at 9:32 pm

No wonder prices of detached houses in Toronto are through the roof! I’m locked at 3.19% (3 years in 4 year fixed) and I thought I had a great deal, silly me.

#79 Pete on 01.11.21 at 9:34 pm

Garth, you should be advising readers to run away from all mortgages with so many uncertainties on the horizon. Finance analysts are now reporting regigging the numbers for 2021 to the tune of 0 to 2% improvement over 2020. GDP. Canada will not, apparantly, be at 2019 productivity and employability levels until 2024…which was heading to recession anayway.

#80 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.11.21 at 9:37 pm

Your friends that run the internet want your wallet….

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-11/why-whatsapp-s-privacy-rules-sparked-moves-to-rivals-quicktake

#81 Tron Light on 01.11.21 at 9:38 pm

DELETED

#82 Sail away on 01.11.21 at 9:49 pm

DV, you were sort of mean. Is that a usual response when someone respectfully points out an error?

I thought we were all friends here.

#83 Big fisher on 01.11.21 at 9:55 pm

#18- IHCTD9

Lac Le Jeune has 8” just got home
Landed 2 lost 4 tons of bites
Big fisher

#84 Diamond Dog on 01.11.21 at 9:55 pm

Nonplused says these were the actions of a few of the alleged supporters of Trump. No biggie. God help us. And him, a purported Christian. – Garth

Some of us are too disconnected to the hate that’s out there to get it, but it’s real. The video below is for ages 18 and older, not easy to watch. Someone from the riot crowd recognized part of a camera crew from CNN walking through the crowd. This is what hate is like up close. (didn’t see much for minorities there either, just saying):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fLeGRpYRkA

When there is that kind of response, what is a mob like that capable of? It’s not just Jan 6th, the death threats, threats of violence to politicians following this, plans for armed protests, I’ve never seen armed civilians during an election day like I saw on Nov. 3rd in some states. This is way past normal.

67% of Trump supporters believe the election was stolen, according to Reuters. 37% of Trump supporters believe in Q anon. This isn’t a party politics we are witnessing, it’s behavior of a cult.

#85 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.11.21 at 9:58 pm

Trump’s followers reach a new low in stupidity

https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/environment/533727-manatee-spotted-with-the-word-trump-carved-in-its

The Manatee, a harmless, gentle, giant on the endangered species list….. meet a brainless idiot…that could actually spell TRUMP without making a mistake.

#86 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 10:06 pm

“Nonplused says these were the actions of a few of the alleged supporters of Trump. No biggie. God help us. And him, a purported Christian. – Garth”

I did not say it was “No biggie” and I hope every perpetrator of the violence that occurred faces appropriate justice. It is one thing to hold strong opinions and peacefully protest, quite another to smash a police officer with a fire extinguisher or destroy property, whether public or private.

The events that occurred on Jan. 6th in my opinion have ended Trump for good. So let’s just leave it at that and let the justice system take care of the criminals that perpetrated these crimes. The FBI is tracking them all down from as far away as Florida and Hawaii. The dummies took selfies and posted them online.

And as for a “purported Christian”, that is just swinging below the belt.

#87 Steve French on 01.11.21 at 10:08 pm

This is where Trumpism gets you…

Pro-Trump protestors nearly beat a police officer to death with an American flagpole on the 6th January Storming of the Capitol Building.

They killed another officer- with a fire extinguisher.

Trump is finished. Goodbye and Lock Him Up.

#88 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 10:13 pm

#71 Ustabe on 01.11.21 at 8:43 pm
The impeachment, if successful, will set a terrible precedent. It will mean that a president can be impeached for the actions of a few of his alleged supporters. And indeed the idiots among them.

I guess the US should save impeachment for whenever someone lies about receiving consensual sex.

————————-

That impeachment failed and it wasn’t about consensual sex. But I would agree it was a total disaster that should not have been brought forward except that it got good TV ratings.

——————————————–

You said in a previous post that you “cast a wide net” when getting your info. I’m left wondering what kind of shape this net is in. Because my headlines sure don’t seem to match up with your headlines. Even NR and NPR are aligned! That is National Review and National Public Radio, btw.

A few years ago when I first came here I looked forward to your comments, your interpretation of things. But you have moved from that all the way to kook. You still carrying water for all things Trump in face of current events is bizarre behaviour.

—————————-

Not carrying water for Trump he is out in 9 days.

———————————

The impeachment, if successful, will send a strong message that the US government and its people won’t allow for Trump like behaviour going forward.

Trump, Parler, book deals being canceled, whatever, are not over reach, they are consequences.

Consequences must be carried out otherwise there are no consequences. My children learned that when they were toddlers.

———————————

So, consequences for what? Unless they can argue that Trump “instigated a riot” or “insurrection” then consequences become quite detached from the constitution. That is exactly what limited government is supposed to prevent. Big brother is not a good thing.

#89 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 10:16 pm

#76 John in Mtl on 01.11.21 at 9:19 pm
#54 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 7:19 pm

Amen Bro, you definitely get it! I hope people here have read your comment too.

————————————-

The majority of the reviews have not been positive. The AI algorithms are working quite well.

#90 dutch4505 on 01.11.21 at 10:27 pm

Pablosbadger on 01.11.21 at 4:03 pm
My idiot brother in law qualified as a mortgage broker last year.

Here’s a summary of his CV before joining the world of high finance:

1. After high school: got run over by an old lady in the parking lot of a LCBO (if you get him drunk he’ll gleefully tell you that he jumped in front of the car). Got $22k compo and somehow managed to ride out the next 5 years on this with no job.

2. Got a job working for his hockey buddy digging pools in new subdivisions in Oakville. Got fired after 3 years for installing a pool at the wrong address (no seriously, had a team of Portuguese laborers dig a hole for six days and install plumbing next door to the house that ordered it).

3. Internet installer for Bell. Crashed the van into a stationary garage door after about a month. Was fired for leaving the scene (he was late for hockey practice aparently).

4. Spent the last 5 years working crappy jobs (hotel porter / uber driver) and attempting to sue his former employers when they justifiably fire him for incompetence. It worked twice thanks to Ontario labor law.

5. Mortgage advisor.

———————————————-

I think we have the same brother in law. Except he works for a provincial assessment firm instead of being a mortgage broker.

#91 Apocalypse NOW on 01.11.21 at 10:51 pm

From 5 months ago, a report of how thousands of police, soldiers and veterans had already been recruited for the current insurrection.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/right-wing-militias-civil-war/616473/

Many of the armed ‘protectors’ at the the Capitol were actually supporters of the attackers.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/capitol-police-officers-suspended-tim-ryan/index.html

Millions of Americans may be dead by January 20.

That’s only the beginning. The borders into Canada will be overrun. By both sides.

PREPARE

#92 Bdog on 01.11.21 at 11:16 pm

I’m going long on variable. Think more wheels will fall off the financial wagon. I think this time it is different. Seems to be at least

#93 yvr_lurker on 01.11.21 at 11:17 pm

$73 Cici, SA and DV

The way I would calculate it is as follows. Let’s just say we have 48 months as a rounding error.

initial investment is 261.00 and each month an additional 261 is put in. 4.89% annual interest rate, with monthly compounding yields

14,123.00

add in say around 280 for the last month (49th month) and you have 14,400 roughly…

use the simple calculator

https://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/calculators/compound-interest-calculator/

#94 Rockylal on 01.11.21 at 11:47 pm

I just got a 5-year mortgage fixed mortgage at 1.64%
from TD Bank. I have the cash to pay it off but at that low rate. it’s free money!

#95 Faron on 01.12.21 at 12:05 am

Nonplused:

If you want to back up your things, make sure the files are encrypted before they get sent. I’m sure even Windows has solid encryption tools that use well known protocols. Once the files are encrypted you can cut out Norton and stick them anywhere.

If you want to teach yourself something, spin up a Droplet on Digital Ocean, set up a LAMP and then install OwnCloud and you are off to the races. You can practice in a linux VM on your local machine. Or use a peer2peer syncing app like resilio.

Email is almost never secure. At all.

#96 db on 01.12.21 at 1:36 am

To quote DV:
Future Value Annuity that (take that money and invest it every month) over 2 years here is what you get at the end of 2 years at various rates of return (if you do not invest that money, after 2 years you will have saved $4,113.60 total):

1% $4,623.25
2% $5,214.31
5% $7,627.64
7% $9,971.48

and so forth.

The rest, you’re on your own like where to invest the monthly savings, penalty clause etc.

Remember that rule of 72? 72/7=9 years to double your money at compounding 7% annual interest rate. In your example you’re more than doubling your money in 2 years. So clearly something went wrong when you ran the numbers.

What the ‘dumb’ engineers are pointing out (to quote:Having taught a few thousand of you, you are typical for an Engineer. Thick when it comes to Annuities…almost all of them are save the odd one in a class.) as I’m sure you have pointed out in the past is the the interest rate and the frequency of payment must use the same time period when using any compound formula. Ergo, monthly interest rate, monthly payments etc.

I think the example Garth posted may need to be reworked; that 2.04% looks like it blends in the penalty with the new lower interest rate as another reader suggested and as DV suggested looking at opportunity costs would paint a fuller picture.

#97 Math Challenged on 01.12.21 at 1:38 am

FYI: New calculations:

Zero vax + zero leadership + obfuscating cabinet shuffle + compliant Trudeau Journo media + no vax shipments planned = how many more dead?

Covid cases and deaths continue to spike. High mortality rate. Yet, vaccination rates plummet. Front line workers not receiving vaccine in any provinces. Trudeau introduces a new argument with provinces, argue away discrepancies.

There is no vaccine left from the pathetic stockpile of 249K doses and bickering seems to be the latest Liberal strategy for explaining away why only a few thousand doses between provinces and territories has now run out and photo-ops are buried underneath the outdoor freezers where corpses are piling up.

The math doesn’t add up. Without a vaccine strategy sooner than Trudeaus October roll out = ‘s how many more dead? Anyone got the formula for this?

#98 No left turn on 01.12.21 at 2:25 am

#84 Diamond Dog

Exactly. Only Trump supporters are bad. Only conservative minded people are bad and hateful. Only traditional thinking folks are hateful and ignorant. And naturally all of the above are Christians are Christians and therefor all are Trump supporters; stupid and hateful. Absolutely all hateful acts of the last four years have been perpetrated only by folks on the right wing of the political spectrum. They all need to be silenced immediately. Right!

Good Lord, tell me again who is the cult leader?

#99 BillyBob on 01.12.21 at 5:15 am

So I sit here on a Tuesday morning, sipping coffee and enjoying the little snow flurries drifting by the window. Wishing I could contribute to the scintillating discussion about mortgage calculations. I’m practically on the edge of my seat wondering “What IS the correct way to project interest costs into the future?!?”

Problem is, I bought my home the old-fashioned way. Y’know, leave Canada, go make a pile of tax-free cash traveling the globe, hook up with goddess who did the same, buy place outright in beautiful capital of historic city. That classic age-old story.

So, instead I thought I’d share this fun tidbit.

Executive summary: people are paying big money to leave Canada, which has the absolute number 1 best health care in the world, except for Toronto which has even better health care because it’s even betterer than everywhere else in Canada, which I know is true because so many people have told me it’s the bestest, to fly to the US, where no one has any decent health care whatsoever, except Elon Musk and maybe Jeff Bezos, which I also know is completely true because of how many people in Canada believe it. Plus I think it’s on Facebook or something. But whatever it all just makes this story so CRAZY!

WHY would they commit such lunacy, one asks?

To get Covid-19 vaccine shots. For free. From that non-existent health care system in the US.

MMMmmmm…delicious…irony is ever better the next day, cold.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7andv/rich-canadians-are-flying-to-florida-in-private-jets-to-get-vaccinated

#100 Bucky on 01.12.21 at 5:38 am

DELETED

#101 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.12.21 at 6:48 am

@#99 BillyBob

Yep.

The Canadian govt has had at least 6 -9 months to prepare for the arrival of the vaccines…..

The politicians keep insisting the majority of us will be vaccinated by Sept.
BC to date has given out approx 140,000 1st doses …. the 2nd “booster” doses are expected to be administered in…… 35 days….15 days after the Pfizer recommended dose timeframe….

Most people are tired of hear the same insipid message from the same people, at the same time, day after day after day.

A one legged monkey, attempting to kick a football in a straight line, couldn’t have done a worse job “organizing” the vaccine roll out.

Lots of angry , skeptical people out there hearing lots of promises and not seeing any results.

Govt bureaucracy meets reality?
And dont complain in an angry tone of voice about our incompetence because our staff work in a harassment free environment this call may be monitored.

#102 KLNR on 01.12.21 at 7:40 am

@#70 Scott Pierror on 01.11.21 at 8:41 pm
In 1995, 5 year fixed rate mortgage rates were 10.5% to 10.75%. Until we get anything above 7% to 8% like back in 2000, they are a joke.

It is all manipulated, rigged. The end game I see is confiscation of houses, condos etc. and everyone will have to live in government housing. Welcome to soviet style forced government housing and they will choose who you live with too….

LOL, sure.

#103 Hamsterwheelie on 01.12.21 at 7:54 am

We did have 4 houses purchased at different times so it seemed every year it was time for one of them to get renewed. Going through the search for a lender led to some extreme rustling through stacks of papers, find all the details of earnings etc and then shopping around hat in hand – brokers always got us something and after a few years a bank would usually take us on.
Thankfully down to one house and 4.5 years until renewal – probably sell at that time.
I think i remember some extremely dull math class trying to teach us about mortgages and it just having no interest or relationship to any part of my life – fast forward 40 years and it has a huge impact on our quality of life for the next 30 years.
Almost all our money has been made in real estate and we’re no financial whiz kids – buy low, sell high eh?
Those houseboats in BC are starting look appealing but thats how far I’m willing to go to avoid a mortgage ;-) Nah – mostly its about quality of life, aka, a mild climate, mossy hikes and enjoying coffee while watching otters play on the dock.

#104 Cabinet Shuffle! on 01.12.21 at 8:02 am

Garth Turner appointed Minister of Finance!

(Strong recommendation from Stephen Harper)

In your dreams………..

#105 Bezengy on 01.12.21 at 8:12 am

Math can be difficult. Perhaps this is why the university professors get paid the big bucks to keep rewriting the books. It also prevents the kids from re-using last year’s books, so it keeps the uni book store hopping too. The system maximizes profit for almost everyone, except maybe the end user, similar to the mortgage broker business.

#106 George S on 01.12.21 at 8:21 am

“(You can compare this to a lowly financial advisor, required to write at least four examinations and take courses over 36 months plus go through a corporate registration period, who is then policed by a federal regulator with judicial powers, as well as being licensed provincially – all to invest some guy’s $12,000 TFSA.)”

Are these qualifications universal for anyone to be able to claim to be a “Financial Advisor”? Even the Financial Advisors at the Credit Union that try and sell you mutual funds with 2 or 3% management fees?
I imagined that they were in a different category, being under the umbrella of a financial institution rather than a stand alone entity.

You are correct. The CU guys and [email protected] and normally not fiduciaries. – Garth

#107 Dharma Bum on 01.12.21 at 8:28 am

“Then in comes his daughter

Whose name was Rita

She looked like she stepped out of

La Dolce Vita!”

~ Bob Dylan, Motorpsycho Nightmare

#108 OK, Doomer on 01.12.21 at 8:31 am

#14 Apocalypse NOW on 01.11.21 at 3:46 pm
PELOSI DEMANDS TRUMP GONE IN 24 HOURS OR ELSE!

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20210111-pelosi-sets-24-hour-deadline-to-remove-trump-or-impeachment-goes-ahead

Probability of a nuclear event by Tuesday?

“Yup. Coming”

PREPARE

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Zero chance. Swallwell doesn’t have the nuke codes. A SBD Swallwell gas attack? Maybe……

#109 IHCTD9 on 01.12.21 at 8:39 am

#83 Big fisher on 01.11.21 at 9:55 pm
#18- IHCTD9

Lac Le Jeune has 8” just got home
Landed 2 lost 4 tons of bites
Big fisher
___

Nice, I am jealous! Zero ice on the river or the bay here. I had planned to get a little jonboat too, maybe I should just go do that.

Still have to wait till this CV stuff ends here either way. We might have a curfew here in Ontario come quitting time today, and stuff like boats have been getting bid up like crazy on Kijiji since last summer.

#110 David Hawke on 01.12.21 at 8:40 am

TurnerNation you’re spot-on with the travel scenario as Canuckistan has NO cross-country bus service, once a week rail service ( last time I checked) with air service growing more costly on a daily basis until within a year it will only be affordable to the elite 1%ers.

#111 George S on 01.12.21 at 8:51 am

#? Elon Fanboy said:
“When does Twitter get taken down?

Double standards.”

Nope, Twitter, Parler, and the various server ‘farms’ are private businesses. They can do whatever they want as long as they don’t violate the laws governing private businesses. As private businesses they are not controlled by the same laws as if they were government run entities. Twitter has its own servers, Parler didn’t. The server farms that Parler was dealing with decided that they didn’t want to host Parler anymore. Simple. End of story. No double standard. Businesses do this all the time. Remember “No Shoes, No Shirts, No Service”. Now it is “No Mask, No Service”. When you enter a business you are on private property and have consented to abide by their rules by entering their property. Businesses set the rules based on their evaluation of whether the public will accept the rules and support their business or not.

I can imagine that setting these rules are a real dilemma for businesses. As we were driving through the US one time I found it interesting to look up the firearms laws in each state that we were driving through. One of the states allowed open carry of firearms by anyone not certified insane or a felon by anyone over 14 years old everywhere except schools and government buildings. Private businesses had the option to allow guns or not. On that state’s firearms association’s website there was a printable file for ‘business’ cards that said “no guns, no business” to be handed out to businesses that had “No Guns Allowed” signs on them. Needless to say I didn’t see any “No Guns Allowed” signs but I didn’t see anybody open carrying firearms either. (they were probably concealed carrying because that is allowed for 18+ year olds)

Sometimes these things are blown out of proportion a bit when people start complaining about them. People tend to overestimate their “constitutional rights” by thinking that every country has the same constitution and that there is no such thing as a Notwithstanding Clause.

#112 the Jaguar on 01.12.21 at 9:01 am

I’ve decided to return from my sabbatical. Primarily because I missed BillyBob, but also to lift the discourse from incredibly boring topics such as mortgage interest calculations and politics south of the border to subjects that require our attention here in Canada. Like this little gem:

Michael Bradley, mayor of the southern Ontario city that is home to three refineries and multiple petrochemical plants, says the community faces potentially 5,000 job losses as Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has served Enbridge with notice the state is cancelling a decades- old easement allowing its Line 5 pipeline, which runs from Western Canada to Michigan and southern Ontario, to cross the Straits of Mackinac through the Great Lakes.

The notice would require Enbridge to shut in the Line 5 pipeline in May. The company is challenging the easement cancellation in court and has vowed to continue using the line.

“In the medium term, propane shortage induced price impacts would be expected to be much more severe and lasting than those experienced during the polar vortex induced shortages in the winter of 2013/14 that prompted Michigan and several other surrounding states to declare a state of emergency,” Koch wrote.

In addition to providing more than half of the heating fuels to Michigan, Line 5 also supplies all of the fuel to Toronto Pearson International Airport and much of the fuel to Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport, said Scott Archer, a business agent with UA Local 663, a labour union, in Sarnia.

Gee. Imagine that. Line 5 supplying all the fuel at Pearson Airport. Go figure. Remember what happened last year when the rail lines were blocked and provinces like Quebec found themselves faced with propane shortages? Deja Vu all over again. But hey, who cares when we can run the world on solar, wind, and unicorn farts. Mercy.

#113 the Jaguar on 01.12.21 at 9:11 am

Here is something else to chew on if you are finding the front page of every newspaper a crashing bore. An excerpt from a book written by David E. Kyvig about the end of the Roaring Twenties that led into the Dirty Thirties. There is something oddly familiar in these words. Perhaps another round of Deja Vu all over again……….:

“What made the Great Depression so difficult to comprehend as well as so discouraging to many Americans was that it devastated an economy that had been producing an unprecedented flood of technologically advanced goods and had the resources and facilities to manufacture many more.

“Nearly a decade of general prosperity and repeated assurances from business and government leaders that such conditions had become permanent had created widespread confidence that bordered on complacency, if it did not cross that border. ” A chicken in every pot, two cars in every garage!” optimism about the future understandably ran high, even among those who had yet to share in the affluence being proclaimed. When instead prosperity shriveled and leaders revealed themselves to be helpless, bewildered, and even inept, no wonder that the confidence of ordinary citizens dissolved and they came to understand the precarious nature of their economic well being. “++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The investor who says, ‘This time is different,’ when in fact it’s virtually a repeat of an earlier situation, has uttered among the four most costly words in the annals of investing.”-John Templeton. ———————–

#114 Wrk.dover on 01.12.21 at 9:18 am

This probably will fail the GT/GF smell test for posting here, but after the truck bombing in the basement of the WTC, a long deceased friend predicted that when fully fueled highjacked jet liners hit the towers, they would be going down. And it would happen, said he.

With that in kind of un-imaginable in mind, it would be all too easy to lob a Kamikaze aircraft across the river from Dulles at ground level in a moment during the inaugural ceremony without President Covid being present there as a human shield.

The only tricky part would be the preflight warm up of the plane without drawing attention.

I sure hope the crippled Homeland Security Dept. has some devious people there to think all of the new proud boi threats through, and mitigate.

Also, Forex/USD…..my USD account ain’t worth what it used to be before Trudeau printed all the CDN CERB currency. Sinking USD! OMG! How?

#115 OK, Doomer on 01.12.21 at 9:24 am

#111 George S on 01.12.21 at 8:51 am
#? Elon Fanboy said:
“When does Twitter get taken down?

Double standards.”

Nope, Twitter, Parler, and the various server ‘farms’ are private businesses. They can do whatever they want as long as they don’t violate the laws governing private businesses.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The internet is no longer a “private business” it’s more like a public utility and needs to be regulated. No business can function without water, electricity, heat or internet these days.

What Amazon did to Parler is the same as Telus saying “we don’t like who you called, so we spoke to the hydro company and they’re cutting off your hydro.”

They’re all private companies, so no problem.

At the end of the day, you need to ask yourself if the roles were reversed and the internet was banning Bernie Sanders, Nancy Pelosi and AOC, would you be OK with it? Much as I dislike the three of them, I would view their banning as unacceptable as well.

#116 KNOW IT ALL on 01.12.21 at 10:09 am

Impeachment #2

So what exactly does that accomplish?
It didnt solve anything the 1st time.

Here we go again with antiquated politics ruining a modern civilization.

Trump will never again be able to hold office. Donations will tumble. Republicans will be in semi-crisis. It is consequential. – Garth

#117 Sail Away on 01.12.21 at 10:24 am

This must be opposite day:

Rich Canadians fly to US for better medical care, Canadian oil company sues Michigan to keep oil pipeline operational, Canadian expat errs on mortgage calculation and doesn’t apologize for insulting others.

I eagerly await further developments.

#118 Gravy Train on 01.12.21 at 10:27 am

#86 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 10:06 pm
“[…] And as for a ‘purported Christian’, that is just swinging below the belt.” How so? For you to be able to embrace hateful Trumpism and loving Christianity, you must be a master of Orwellian doublethink.

#119 Sail Away on 01.12.21 at 10:40 am

Whoop- here’s the next:

https://www.tsn.ca/report-san-jose-sharks-evander-kane-files-for-bankruptcy-1.1575922

Being from Vancouver, young Evander probably just thought enormous debt was a normal part of life.

#120 Jan 6 2021 - A comparisin on 01.12.21 at 10:52 am

CBS News, October 4, 2018: “Protesters opposed to Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh took over a Senate office building on Thursday, with actresses Amy Schumer and Emily Ratajkowski among the demonstrators detained. The Senate will hold a procedural vote on Kavanaugh’s nomination on Friday, setting in motion a possible final vote on Saturday.”

“New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand addressed protesters, telling them, ‘This is a moment about all of you — all of you are speaking truth to power because you care about the future, you care about our children, you care about who is leading this country and who sits on the highest court in the land’.”

“Capitol police said about 300 people were detained. In a video shared widely on Twitter, Schumer said ‘I think we’re going to get arrested’.”

Women’s March tweeted: “We were planning to shut down the Capitol Building but the authorities were so scared of this #WomensWave that they shut it down for us. 1000+ women, survivors, and allies have gathered in the Hart Senate Building. Every hallway. Every floor.”

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Very easy-going press coverage. No problem. No outrage. No accusations of Insurrection from the mainstream press.

It was a protest from the Left, covered by the Left. And the Capitol Police promptly shut down the original target: the Capitol Building. They didn’t lead the protestors INTO the Capitol, as they astonishingly did a few days ago, on January 6.

Here’s another item from 2018 on the same protest—ABC News: “Capitol Hill police said 128 people were arrested for ‘unlawfully demonstrating’ outside of senators’ offices and in the main rotunda of the Russell Senate Building. About half as many protesters were arrested for protesting Kavanaugh on Thursday.”

Ho-hum. Another day at the office. Not a word about “the desecration of our democracy.”

Now if you really want to revisit a chaotic moment in federal-building takeovers, let’s go back to 1954. The US House of Representatives Archives has an account:

“On March 1, 1954, while Members gathered on the House Floor for an upcoming vote, three men and one woman entered the visitor’s gallery above the chamber and quietly took their seats. All four belonged to the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party and only hours earlier had traveled from New York City to Washington, DC.”

“The United States had annexed Puerto Rico in 1898, and the island’s relationship with the federal government had long been a point of contention. Some Puerto Ricans sought to maintain their relationship with the mainland, and others, like the four visitors in the House that day, argued for an independent Puerto Rico.”

“The Capitol had few security protocols at the time, and the four Puerto Rican nationalists entered the gallery armed with handguns. Around 2:30 p.m. they indiscriminately opened fire onto the House Floor and unfurled a Puerto Rican flag in a violent act of protest meant to draw attention to their demand for Puerto Rico’s immediate independence.”

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“Five Congressmen were wounded in the shooting.”

“Members, House Pages, and police officers quickly helped detain three of the assailants outside the gallery, while the fourth escaped the Capitol and was apprehended later that afternoon.”

Joe Bartlett, a House Page at the time, recalls: “I had just had a bundle of bills and had just stepped out the center door, on my way to the Senate, with these bills. I heard what sounded like, a stack of folding chairs falling—these metal folding chairs…I turned around and ran right back into the chamber, and they were sorting out the casualties. They were scrambling in the gallery…it was a helter-skelter scene. I went down the center aisle, and as I went down the aisle, [Clifford] Davis of Tennessee was sitting there…Davis had been shot through the calf, and he had his foot up on the seat in front of him and holding both sides of a bullet wound…I walked right into the well, where poor Al [Alvin Morell] Bentley was stretched out there…the wound contributed to his early death years later. Bentley had been shot through the abdomen…Representative [Kenneth Allison] Roberts of Alabama probably suffered more, maybe longer than anyone. He was shot through the knee. And that bullet had come through the chair that Sam Rayburn, as the Minority Leader, had regularly sat in. Fortunately, Mr. Rayburn was not sitting there at that moment. The bullet shattered Roberts’ knee…Ben Jensen of Iowa was shot in the shoulder, and the bullet followed under his hide to his waist…”

The House of Representatives survived.

After what happened on January 6, 2021, Congress will survive.

Just send three ear wax kits. Thx. – Garth

#121 SeeB on 01.12.21 at 11:08 am

#115 OK, Doomer on 01.12.21 at 9:24 am

#111 George S on 01.12.21 at 8:51 am
#? Elon Fanboy said:
“When does Twitter get taken down?

Double standards.”

Nope, Twitter, Parler, and the various server ‘farms’ are private businesses. They can do whatever they want as long as they don’t violate the laws governing private businesses.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The internet is no longer a “private business” it’s more like a public utility and needs to be regulated. No business can function without water, electricity, heat or internet these days.

What Amazon did to Parler is the same as Telus saying “we don’t like who you called, so we spoke to the hydro company and they’re cutting off your hydro.”

They’re all private companies, so no problem.

At the end of the day, you need to ask yourself if the roles were reversed and the internet was banning Bernie Sanders, Nancy Pelosi and AOC, would you be OK with it? Much as I dislike the three of them, I would view their banning as unacceptable as well.

————————————————–

You guys are hilarious.

Show me the posts where AoC, Pelosi, et al were agitating for violent insurrection.

Show me the posts where these folks were encouraging people to ignore public health advice in the face of a pandemic.

Show me the posts where the were repeatedly lying about the results of the election in a effort to undermine democracy.

Maybe then we can talk about why they should be banned.

#122 Diamond Dog on 01.12.21 at 11:23 am

#98 No left turn on 01.12.21 at 2:25 am

Are you off your f rocker? I said Trumpers are being lied to (how can they not be, 67% still believe the election was stolen), cult behavior most definitely, they belong to a cult, how can they not when 37% of Trumpers embrace Q Anon of all rabbit holes (as just one example) but don’t let the Truth get in your way.

Trumpers really are brainwashed (4+ years of it reaps results) and we’d better wake up, there really are some bad apples out there, much more than we’d like to admit (big hint, the largess of discrimination doesn’t come from minorities) and comments like yours trying to pull sympathy from exaggerated straw man extremes only try to normalize it.

Of course Conservative minded folks “in general” don’t have a lock on hate but we’ve got to wake up, some of the leaders and followers of Trumpism are filled with it.

“Only traditional thinking folks are hateful and ignorant. And naturally all of the above are Christians are Christians and therefor all are Trump supporters; stupid and hateful. Absolutely all hateful acts of the last four years have been perpetrated only by folks on the right wing of the political spectrum. They all need to be silenced immediately. Right!” – Nlt

Your comment was entirely “All or nothing”, “black and white” thinking and then you bring Christianity into it of all things (got to play the victim card, I guess).

The psychological term for it is called “splitting”, it’s obvious self projection and as such, the links below are required reading for you, Nft:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_playing

#123 Diamond Dog on 01.12.21 at 11:47 am

#86 Nonplused on 01.11.21 at 10:06 pm

While I like what you had to say, I will remind, you described the capitol building riot in this way on the 7th:

“I saw another video demonstrating just how violent the mob was. Once in the capital building most of these violent protesters stayed within the red fences like they were on a guided tour. A couple of them took pictures in front of a painting depicting the Canadian invasion Garth mentioned. Not all of course, some of them also entered the chamber. But nothing caught fire. If there was an opportunity to burn the building down there it was, but no fires.” – Nonplused

The protest was like a “guided tour”, what part of “today Trump is toxic, tomorrow he’s a pariah, next week he’s a leper” did you not understand? Reality isn’t just in the eye of the beholder, there’s what we want it to be, we get that but there’s also the way it really is.

Trump isn’t just indefensible, he’s criminal, he’s still dangerous and as much as partisan politics wants to wish it would go away (from both sides, its a mess), there is very real and lasting damage from this and cleanup won’t happen overnight.

#124 No left turn on 01.12.21 at 12:04 pm

#122 Diamond Dog

No victim here partner, but your inability to detect your own bias is astounding.
I’ve read that J and J will be doling out Covid relief based on the color of the buildings. Interesting times ahead.

#125 FriedEggs on 01.12.21 at 12:05 pm

(Oct 15/2020) Lets revisit this fake document now 3 months later – True, somewhat true or a complete miss Garth?

‘The road map and aim was set out by the PMO and is as follows:
– Phase in secondary lock down restrictions on a rolling basis, starting with major metropolitan areas first and expanding outward. Expected by November 2020.
– Rush the acquisition of (or construction of) isolation facilities across every province and territory. Expected by December 2020.
– Daily new cases of COVID-19 will surge beyond capacity of testing, including increases in COVID related deaths following the same growth curves. Expected by end of November 2020.
– Complete and total secondary lock down (much stricter than the first and second rolling phase restrictions). Expected by end of December 2020 – early January 2021
– Reform and expansion of the unemployment program to be transitioned into the universal basic income program. Expected by Q1 2021.
– Projected COVID-19 mutation and/or co-infection with secondary virus (referred to as COVID-21) leading to a third wave with much higher mortality rate and higher rate of infection. Expected by February 2021.
– Daily new cases of COVID-21 hospitalizations and COVID-19 and COVID-21 related deaths will exceed medical care facilities capacity. Expected Q1 – Q2 2021.
– Enhanced lock down restrictions (referred to as Third Lock Down) will be implemented. Full travel restrictions will be imposed (including inter-province and inter-city). Expected Q2 2021.
– Transitioning of individuals into the universal basic income program. Expected mid Q2 2021.
– Projected supply chain break downs, inventory shortages, large economic instability. Expected late Q2 2021.
– Deployment of military personnel into major metropolitan areas as well as all major roadways to establish travel checkpoints. Restrict travel and movement. Provide logistical support to the area. Expected by Q3 2021.’

#126 Faron on 01.12.21 at 12:05 pm

#114 Wrk.dover on 01.12.21 at 9:18 am

I sure hope the crippled Homeland Security Dept. has some devious people there to think all of the new proud boi threats through, and mitigate.

Regarding the inauguration: there have been questions as to why Biden wants to do it in the open air and I think the answer is that he knows that the US needs to re-establish its international posture of control and stable government power. It’s worth taking the risk in order to do that.

Assuming no more cock-ups happen for a while, the US will have a very long road ahead in terms of damaged reputation and international perception. Sure, relations with allies will be rapidly normalized, but in the back of everyone’s mind now will be this question of whether the US will elect another crack-pot. I think that question sticks for years if not decades if not a full generation.

Regarding security at the event, I’d like to think DHS does. And, I’m sure they have some of the sharpest minds in the country on this and numerous national security issues. However, everyone somehow missed all of the planning that went into Jan 6th… So, I’m not so sure.

I don’t think anyone without clearance knows what security measures do and will go into the inauguration. But, having a few F35s in the air doesn’t seem to be out of the question. If nothing else, they can provide a resounding fly-by when the time is right.

#127 Faron on 01.12.21 at 12:08 pm

#114 Wrk.dover on 01.12.21 at 9:18 am

Also, Forex/USD…..my USD account ain’t worth what it used to be before Trudeau printed all the CDN CERB currency. Sinking USD! OMG! How?

Oil up -> CAD up
decreasing market risk and USD printing -> USD down

End about now though.

#128 jess on 01.12.21 at 12:12 pm

false claims act: trump raising money under false claims?

Making false statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the
common name for the United States federal process crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements, or concealing information, in “any matter within the jurisdiction” of the federal government of the United States,[1] even by merely denying guilt when asked by a federal agent.[2] A number of notable people have been convicted under the section, including Martha Stewart,[3] Rod Blagojevich,[4] Michael T. Flynn,[5] Rick Gates,[6] Scooter Libby,[7] Bernard Madoff,[8] and Jeffrey Skilling.[9]

This statute is used in many contexts. Most commonly, prosecutors use this statute to reach cover-up crimes such as perjury, false declarations, and obstruction of justice and government fraud cases.[10]

Trump raised $200m from false election claims. What happens …
http://www.theguardian.com › us-news › dec › trump-raised-…
Dec 19, 2020 — The president could use the funds to ensure he and his allies remain a powerful force in US politics.

Trump Fundraising Surges After Election Amid False Claims It …
http://www.npr.org › biden-transition-updates › 2020/12/04 › tr…
Dec 4, 2020 — The money came “pouring in” while the president argued the election had been stolen from him. His campaign, the Republican Party and .

#129 Faron on 01.12.21 at 12:29 pm

#112 the Jaguar on 01.12.21 at 9:01 am

I’ll start off by saying: I generally support pipelines. I spoke out about Alberta’s purchase of one at the height of the COVID crisis for obvious reasons. In case they aren’t obvious, those billions should have gone to direct support of Albertans until the economy got back on its feet. Pipelines take oil off of rails and trucks which are far, far more dangerous modes of transport. They also don’t drive oil price globally and thus don’t have a huge impact on global demand. So, they are a false target for enviros in my uninformed opinion. Or, at best, a very weak and local lever.

Line 5: If Enbridge wants to run their pipeline through the US, perhaps they should make it a bit less leaky?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbridge_Line_5

I’m going to guess that this is a play to force Enbridge to beef up the line and prevent leaks. Maybe develop a safer way to transit the straits. I’d be pretty surprised if the shutdown lasted very long before a negotiation was made.

#130 Albertaguy in AB on 01.12.21 at 12:34 pm

Could Trump be forced to return the 200M he raised ?

#131 Penny Henny on 01.12.21 at 12:42 pm

#82 Sail away on 01.11.21 at 9:49 pm
DV, you were sort of mean. Is that a usual response when someone respectfully points out an error?
/////////////////

After being called out on an error and finally realizing his mistake DV usually goes into hiding.
And to think this guy taught a course in Uni.
As The Jaguar would say, Mercy.

#132 SeeB on 01.12.21 at 12:43 pm

#130 Albertaguy in AB on 01.12.21 at 12:34 pm

Could Trump be forced to return the 200M he raised ?

————————————————————

Unless the donors sue, then probably not.

#133 jess on 01.12.21 at 12:44 pm

so the football coach refuses the medal of freedom as he says he’s an american not a trumpian

although, mr. jordon feels differently.lol
========
money laundering?

Trump running a superpac
And experts say Trump, as a non-candidate, would be free to launch other fundraising arms with even fewer legal guardrails on his activity than his current committees. Running a super PAC, for instance, would give Trump the option to spend unlimited amounts of money and take contributions of any size, including an in-kind donation of his campaign’s data about its donors.

==========
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/comeback-for-legalized-money-laundering-in-party-politics/

10 Years of Super PACs Show Courts Were Wrong on Corruption Risks

“It’s been a decade since the Supreme Court’s Citizens United ruling led to a lower court decision that created the super-PAC monster that gives the wealthy undue influence over politics.
n SpeechNow v. Federal Election Commission, the DC Circuit Court of Appeals required the FEC to allow organizations to register as “independent expenditure only committees,” a status that lets groups raise unlimited money from donors. Millionaires, billionaires, and corporations skirt individual limits by donating to these groups, which we now know as super PACs.

The groups — which are often staffed by former employees of the candidates — throw their money and resources behind candidates or political causes favored by the wealthy donors. The process drowns out the voices of regular voters, giving the superrich a level of access to and influence over the political process that’s impossible for the vast majority of Americans to obtain. Examples abound over the last decade.

The most recent high-profile one involves Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman… read more @

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/10-years-super-pacs-show-courts-were-wrong-corruption-risks

#134 Squire on 01.12.21 at 12:55 pm

#125 FriedEggs on 01.12.21 at 12:05 pm
(Oct 15/2020) Lets revisit this fake document now 3 months later – True, somewhat true or a complete miss Garth?
—————————————————————–
I don’t want to fall into the conspiracy spiral but it seems to be all playing out similar to the original letter. Maybe it’s just how things are going as well as the virus. Time will tell.
I still think we are headed for permanent changes such as cashless society and more surveillance/ monitoring of our regular lives in general. Call it a gut feeling or whatever. Like something looming.

#135 Flop... on 01.12.21 at 1:07 pm

#131 Penny Henny on 01.12.21 at 12:42 pm
After being called out on an error and finally realizing his mistake DV usually goes into hiding.
And to think this guy taught a course in Uni.
As The Jaguar would say, Mercy.

///////////////////////////

Stuff knows.

All I know is last time when you wrote this post when I corrected Dolce 4 times that my Sweden post was about interest rates, not about GDP or COVID numbers, he just came back the next day and quadrupled down.

No Oopski post…

M46BC

———————————-

#72 Penny Henny on 10.19.20 at 6:49 pm
Hey Dolce Virus Wiener?
Where is your apology to Flopper?
Can you admit you were wrong?
I noticed by the time log of your comments and by the fact you are in EyeTalia that maybe you had been hitting the bottle. No worries though I’ve done the same except my spelling is usually atrocious

#136 Comments! on 01.12.21 at 1:09 pm

I have developed severe blisters on my index finger scrolling past Dolce Vita, MF and Faron comments, severely hampering my piano and guitar playing.

Garth you may be liable.

#137 BillyBob on 01.12.21 at 1:23 pm

the jaguar is back! Excellent! Some balance is restored.

If I’m off the radar for a bit, don’t worry, I’m just…uh…keeping a lower profile for a few days…

https://www.praguemorning.cz/video-man-stole-30-packs-of-condoms-and-29-tubes-of-lubricant/

#138 Sara on 01.12.21 at 1:33 pm

#137 BillyBob on 01.12.21 at 1:23 pm

If I’m off the radar for a bit, don’t worry, I’m just…uh…keeping a lower profile for a few days…

https://www.praguemorning.cz/video-man-stole-30-packs-of-condoms-and-29-tubes-of-lubricant/

=============================

You might need the lubricant to keep your hands (etc) from chafing, but what are you going to do with all those condoms?

#139 Sail Away on 01.12.21 at 1:34 pm

#131 Penny Henny on 01.12.21 at 12:42 pm
#82 Sail away on 01.11.21 at 9:49 pm

DV, you were sort of mean. Is that a usual response when someone respectfully points out an error?

———–

After being called out on an error and finally realizing his mistake DV usually goes into hiding.
And to think this guy taught a course in Uni.
As The Jaguar would say, Mercy.

———–

A simple apology for the insults would be nice.

Although I would also accept him hosting my wife and me for a short tour of his favourite Italian destination.

I’ll wear the classic N. American tourist outfit: oversized Mickey Mouse shirt, multiflora Bermuda shorts, flipflops and a Tilley hat… and will continually wave and yell questions to him across the square.

#140 Dr V (Not 'DV') on 01.12.21 at 1:50 pm

131 Penny – After his rookie boo-boo, then his vehement
defense of his calculation, and his “sort of mean” retort to SA (and engineers who took econ/finance) DV has lost all
credibility if he ever had any.

I strongly doubt his claim that he ever taught at university.

#141 Diamond Dog on 01.12.21 at 2:01 pm

#124 No left turn on 01.12.21 at 12:04 pm

I’m biased, you’re defending trains of thought through attacks with extremes having no basis in reality. Try a real argument some time. If you want a Q Anon playground to entertain yourself, go to Twitter. Right, forgot, Twitter just got rid of 70,000 Q Anon accounts and now dullards will be going off on cancel culture and censorship ’cause they didn’t get their fantasy fix so they end up here and triggered, it never ends.

#142 Wrk.dover on 01.12.21 at 2:04 pm

#127 Faron on 01.12.21 at 12:08 pm
#114 Wrk.dover on 01.12.21 at 9:18 am

Also, Forex/USD…..my USD account ain’t worth what it used to be before Trudeau printed all the CDN CERB currency. Sinking USD! OMG! How?

Oil up -> CAD up
decreasing market risk and USD printing -> USD down

End about now though.

————————————-

I get it! I’ve been distracted/unfocused too long. Thanks for the simple explanation.

#143 NoName on 01.12.21 at 2:15 pm

#140 Dr V (Not ‘DV’) on 01.12.21 at 1:50 pm
131 Penny – After his rookie boo-boo, then his vehement
defense of his calculation, and his “sort of mean” retort to SA (and engineers who took econ/finance) DV has lost all
credibility if he ever had any.

I strongly doubt his claim that he ever taught at university.

He never sad that it was someone in comments who sad it if i remember corectly.

Aldo in a past i di to have few math blunders here in commnet seactio, just for the record, So I’ll have to jump on band wagon here and recomend a book for both of us.

Hey La Vida Loca, here is good red, i remember asking my teacher in hogh school “When am I ever going to use this in the real world?” when they start teaching us about imaginary numbers… exact same question that books start with, and i dident wrot it. Yes i do weagly remember integers to.

https://www.amazon.com/Humble-Pi-When-Wrong-World/dp/0593084683

#144 Elcheapo on 01.12.21 at 2:23 pm

21- Pablosbadger- damn that is the funniest comment I have ever read on this site.

#145 KNOW IT ALL on 01.12.21 at 2:51 pm

#116 KNOW IT ALL on 01.12.21 at 10:09 am
Impeachment #2

So what exactly does that accomplish?
It didnt solve anything the 1st time.

Here we go again with antiquated politics ruining a modern civilization.

Trump will never again be able to hold office. Donations will tumble. Republicans will be in semi-crisis. It is consequential. – Garth

‐——————————————-

Trump doesnt need to run again or need donations. He is going to have Presidential benefits for life and can still cause chaos without a government title.

The entire US government is in crisis.

So in other words what your saying is nothing changes – gotcha.

#146 IHCTD9 on 01.12.21 at 2:53 pm

#138 Sara on 01.12.21 at 1:33 pm
#137 BillyBob on 01.12.21 at 1:23 pm

If I’m off the radar for a bit, don’t worry, I’m just…uh…keeping a lower profile for a few days…

https://www.praguemorning.cz/video-man-stole-30-packs-of-condoms-and-29-tubes-of-lubricant/

=============================

You might need the lubricant to keep your hands (etc) from chafing, but what are you going to do with all those condoms?
__

The ladies can’t resist a Pilots’ Uniform. Just ask the Jag, she can confirm.

#147 Curfew - for the lemmings to enjoy on 01.12.21 at 3:00 pm

Definition of Rob Ford Chinese agents infested government.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Bases on the polls the retarded lemmings want more of the same.

#148 Stoph on 01.12.21 at 3:11 pm

If I were Dave, I’d directly give my lender a call and see what my options are and if a blend and extend is possible. He can do the math if it’s worth it to payout his mortgage and go to a different lender or if he’s just better off to stick with his current lender.

#149 Dr V (Not DV) on 01.12.21 at 3:50 pm

143 Hello No name – “Engineering Economics” is a pretty standard requirement in the core courses of an Engineering faculty. Not sure where else he could make these claims (pasted below)

“Used to teach Modeling in Excel to the Beancounters
and Engineers”

“Having taught a few thousand of you, you are typical for an Engineer.”

“Forgot to mention, with a class of Engineers taking a Financial Mgmt course to get a nice spread in marks, my Bell Curve, all I did was this, 4 different questions using these formulas..”

Yes we can all make math blunders, but he is professing his expertise in this. No way he should make that mistake. It is the most common blunder in those calculations. That’s the issue.

Once that credibility is gone, he risks people not believing anything else he says.

#150 Penny Henny on 01.12.21 at 6:01 pm

#149 Dr V (Not DV) on 01.12.21 at 3:50 pm
143 Hello No name – “Engineering Economics” is a pretty standard requirement in the core courses of an Engineering faculty. Not sure where else he could make these claims (pasted below)

“Used to teach Modeling in Excel to the Beancounters
and Engineers”

“Having taught a few thousand of you, you are typical for an Engineer.”

“Forgot to mention, with a class of Engineers taking a Financial Mgmt course to get a nice spread in marks, my Bell Curve, all I did was this, 4 different questions using these formulas..”

Yes we can all make math blunders, but he is professing his expertise in this. No way he should make that mistake. It is the most common blunder in those calculations. That’s the issue.

Once that credibility is gone, he risks people not believing anything else he says.

//////////////

DV has lost all credibility long ago.

BTW No Name reads the comments from the bottom up so he probably won’t see this.

#151 Jim Osophy on 01.13.21 at 9:40 am

Video with my mortgage broker.
https://youtu.be/GVcEiKKDhNU

#152 Triplenet on 01.13.21 at 12:30 pm

That photo (sans ladybug) shows is exactly how my dog smiles when i ask him if he wants to go out and chase cats.