The social contract

Surveys show half the WFHers want to stay in their sweats, shun the commute, live in the burbs and never return to full-time office work. But half of employers now say they have no intention of letting that happen, once the pandemic ends.

Hmm. Conflict.

Will the WFH addicts, the majority of whom (61%) are under 34 quit in a huff and look for a new job? Time will tell. This virus has had a weird effect on society, shattering many bonds once taken as norms. Like the idea of going to work. You know, out of the house. With others. Colleagues. Or socializing with and befriending new people. Or joining a crowd of like-minded folks, cheering a team or a rocker on stage. Bonding in a common experience.

Instead, all our personal worlds have become smaller. We inhabit safe little ‘bubbles’. We Zoom instead of meet. We’re nesting as never before. Insulating, sometimes quarantining, self-isolating and generally fearing others. It’s all anti-social. Destructive. It frays the corners of our civility. Everyone’s mask is the symbol of this apartness. And none of it is good.

As this blog has detailed for the past nine months, the economic implications of Covid are bottomless. We save instead of spend. Unemployment has surged. Small businesses are in peril. After the holidays it may be shocking how few local retailers or restaurants remain. Government finances have been shot to hell. The nation’s in recession. The virus has made houses less affordable and increased the wealth gap. Almost 80% of lower-income people have jobs that cannot be done remotely, and suffer. The WFHers don’t much care. And now we have this puzzling vaccine debate. More evidence citizens are becoming hermits.

Most of us are months away from being jabbed, or presented with the chance to be immunized. Between now and then the virus numbers will likely worsen. We are on that trajectory. More people now die in the US than did on Nine Eleven. Every day. In little Canada almost 14,000 are dead since March. This is tragic. It’s about twice the number of Canadians killed at Vimy Ridge or Dieppe, combined. Yet so many people dust it off, and cocoon.

This year the virus has defeated us, causing economic devastation. Half the country is in, or entering, serious new lockdowns. But they haven’t worked thus far. Neither has wide-spread mask wearing, physical distancing, sanitizing everything that moves or leaping off sidewalks. There is only one door to normalcy. And only if enough people go through it. Vaccination.

The anti-vax movement is fuelled by the same whackadoodles who told you Trump never lost and Covid’s a hoax. They link it all to a mythical Great Reset agenda by the cabal of globalist leaders, with some warning the serum contains tracking microchips. All anti-vaxers exaggerate rare side effects and potential personal harm as a way of thwarting herd immunity. They link it to issues of personal liberty and choice, as the anti-maskers do. They are our enemies.

But, the no-jab people say, the infection and death rates from Covid are ridiculously low. I’ll take my chances.

This ignores the fact the entire world has been affected, despite the numbers infected. Poverty has increased, economic activity crushed, public finances eroded and whole industries imperilled. It’s not all about you, as shocking as that may be.

But, they continue. Only old people get sick from the virus and die. They were going to die anyway. What’s the deal?

Lately the largest group being infected are under the age of 40. How many succumb will only be known later. In any case, Covid seems to have a long tail, leading to a cocktail of organ issues  after the primary infection departs. Why not try to eradicate it?

Most deaths are among nursing-home residents and other wrinklies, the malcontents cry. Many have other health problems, so this whole thing is overblown.

The vaccine is not just about preventing death. It’s about lessening disease. Hospitalizations are surging. ICUs in many Canadian cities have never seen so many patients. Health care staff and systems are under big stress. Elective surgeries for cardiac and cancer patients in Toronto have been cancelled. Screenings for various cancers have stopped. Many who will never get Covid could sicken and die because of Covid. This can be stopped. Or mitigated.

Why would you not be part of the solution, hiding instead behind one of these false rationales?

Fear, of course. It’s cowardice which makes people resist. And that renders them selfish. Without most getting this serum, the virus will stay.

Deciding not to vax is no free ride. Employers won’t want non-immunized people in the workplace, lest they face liability for infections. No way Air Canada or WestJet is letting you into the passenger cabin without proof of vaccination. Why would Costco, Home Depot or Canadian Tire allow the unvaxed to mingle with other customers? Don’t kid yourself. You might end up being a modern leper.

Do you fear for your kids?

In the 1950s all we little snots had to line up and be vaccinated at school. No exceptions. No jab, no education. And today there is essentially no measles, mumps, chickenpox or polio for your children to worry about or sicken from. We did that for you. Now it’s your turn, so Covid is gone for future generations.

We all have a moral, ethical responsibility and duty to be vaxed. This is our social contract. Break it if you wish, but fear the cost.

289 comments ↓

#1 danny partridge on 12.17.20 at 1:21 pm

First?! By a country mile, methinks.

Have a great holiday season Garth :)

#2 Classical Liberal Millennial on 12.17.20 at 1:27 pm

Excellent post, Garth. I anticipate a whole lot of comments today. It’s amazing that while science progresses to new heights, society seems to go the opposite way in fear and skepticism. Feel free to be left behind, folks. Baah, baah. That’s what they’ll say we are. But I’ll be somewhere warm next winter and they won’t.

#3 Ben Smith on 12.17.20 at 1:30 pm

Amen to all of that!

Well said Garth!

If our governments can shut your business down, why can’t they force you to get vaxxed? Watch and learn!

#4 604Sam on 12.17.20 at 1:35 pm

Bring on the window-licking anti-vaxxers. I predict scores of deleted posts today

#5 Odif on 12.17.20 at 1:36 pm

Thanks Garth, wise words. I hope people will listen and do the right thing.

#6 Interstellar Old Yeller on 12.17.20 at 1:36 pm

Thanks, Garth. I implore everyone reading to do their part so the healthcare system can continue to save lives in all medical situations, not just COVID. Capacity is not endless, and I fear we are about to see that firsthand.

#7 TurnerNation on 12.17.20 at 1:40 pm

Re. our health. Sure. they really care about it.

It’s here…Facedrive bought Foodora food delivery app. Now Facedrive Foods is the name. FD.TO is the ticker

The A.I. control web is being ramped up. The A.I. will force first their staff, then yourself maybe one day, to remain 6 feet away from every human. Else you will lose your job. For our health! Read this:

“One key safety precaution that has been rolled out throughout the Facedrive Foods platform is in-app temperature display. This function allows customers to see body temperature of the driver delivering their order and automatically disables drivers who exhibit above normal body temperatures. Another fundamental addition to the Facedrive Foods offering will be the integration of Facedrive’s proprietary TraceSCAN product, a standalone contact-tracing wearable solution built on cutting-edge Bluetooth technology and enabling functionality such as contact-tracing and social distancing alerts. ”

……

Musk is just a front man for global technology imo. Any tech they tell us about is already perfected, for years…it’s just to sell us on it now. Apple watch is already pretty close it monitors an reports your vital stats:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink
Neuralink Corporation is an American neurotechnology company founded by Elon Musk and others, developing implantable brain–machine interfaces (BMIs)
…..

Did you think I was exagerating back in in MAY when I wrote the below? 6 months later and it’s hear. New System is damn fast.

#70 TurnerNation on 05.22.20 at 3:23 pm
And no one seems to know anyone behind these new daily numbers. Could they be generated region-by-region by A.I. – until all the new tools are rolled out?
– UBI
– Tracking apps.
– Travel bans for good
– Small business bye -bye.

#260 TurnerNation on 05.23.20 at 6:59 am
The A.I. will regulate your every move very soon. This was all planned out decades ago and now the technology is here. None of this is going away. Not the tracking, the distancing; the war on small business and independence.
This is it: worldwide medical marital law.
Many here will support it fully. Keeping us safe!
You will not be able to leave the house, work, or transact commerce without the Mark of health — which only the new global government may provide

#8 Faron on 12.17.20 at 1:42 pm

Bravo Garth!

Good luck with the comments section today.

#9 GARTH - YOU ARE FORGETTING THE ONES SHOT AND DEAD OF COVID on 12.17.20 at 1:43 pm

DELETED

#10 Chris Serran on 12.17.20 at 1:45 pm

Hey Garth – good post. I agree with most of it, except this bit. “Half the country is in, or entering, serious new lockdowns. But they haven’t worked thus far. Neither has wide-spread mask wearing, physical distancing, sanitizing everything that moves or leaping off sidewalks. ” Actually I would argue those things have worked, not at eradicating the virus, but rather at keeping the transmission much lower than it would have been without all those things. So yes, too may are still getting sick and dying and will continue until we all get a couple of jabs, but all those mitigation efforts were and continue to be useful in slowing down transmission, keeping hospitals open etc. etc. Take care and stay healthy all.

#11 Chimingin on 12.17.20 at 1:48 pm

Awesome post! Stay well.

#12 Bob on 12.17.20 at 1:48 pm

Half the country is in, or entering, serious new lockdowns. But they haven’t worked thus far.

I’m curious exactly what you mean by this. The goal of the lockdowns was never to eliminate the virus or to prevent a second wave. (Our leaders didn’t have the stomach to implement the kind of measures that would require.)

Rather, the goal was to limit the number of simultaneously infected, in order to avoid overstraining our healthcare system. And they do seem to have been reasonably effective at achieving that. We don’t have people dying in the street for want of hospital beds.

Also, it now appears that we’ll never approach the 30-70% total infected that early modeling predicted. We have the lockdowns, social distancing, and mask wearing to thank for that.

#13 Sara on 12.17.20 at 1:49 pm

Garth, I must say that your attitude towards COVID-19 (at least as it appears from your writings in this blog) has changed since the pandemic first raised its ugly head. I assume this is because you are a smart guy who is capable of altering his thoughts when presented with enough convincing evidence. Unfortunately this is not the case for some who resist the truth no matter what, occasionally, sadly, even whilst dying of COVID themselves.

#14 Caroline on 12.17.20 at 1:50 pm

Well said Garth!

#15 TurnerNation on 12.17.20 at 1:53 pm

I’d written this already this morning. BTW our leaders this year trashed the social contract. Every system has been turned against us. “Health care” – CBC has an article on impacts of all the cancelled surgeries and cancer treatments. Slow burn,

First for all the experts in this comments section. Last night Ontario’s web site lists 161 deaths of people under 60 years old. That’s one hundred and sixty-one.
For the over 80 set it’s 2800. Presumably many or most are living in “Care homes”

Now, as someone with a parent edging up there imagine a scale – left side is Incompetence. Right side is Malice.
In March where did that scale sit? Flat, left or right leaning?
9 month into this, we were told the military came to help (!), and still this.
Today where does that scale sit? Flat, left or right leaning?

Care home residents are assets to the home until they require to much care. Brand New entrants might yet be charged at a higher price too.
Well here’s a photo of people trying to visit a care home – about that social contract our leaders broke:
https://twitter.com/jerrywaynear14/status/1338849436961738754
“My Aunt passed away last night.
This is how my mother and her family got to visit her.”

—— On the topic of control over our Feeding, Breeding and Movements.

It’s a soft sell. Gradual steps. First the mink cull. Replace mink with Cattle, chickens and you get the picture.
Our elites want us eating bugs . why the push toward ‘plant based’ stuff – which is not really from plants by synthisized from a lab.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/01/humans-will-eat-maggot-sausages-as-a-meat-alternative-scientists/

Noted already , last year!!
#49 TurnerNation on 09.10.19 at 8:54 pm
I beleive in my lifetime good foodstuffs will be trashed as armed men look on and people are starving. Maybe the correct karbon permit was not applied for, or the WHO claims dread disease and we comply. Trees have more rights than yourself.

— New System stuff. Hunger Games anyone?

https://mises.org/wire/socialists-plan-ecological-leninism
12/15/2020David Gordon
Corona, Climate, Chronic Emergency: War Communism in the Twenty-First Century
Some critics of the draconian lockdowns alleged to be needed to cope with covid-19 have claimed that these measures are merely preparatory steps to accustom Americans to centralized control. Once the covid-19 hysteria dies down, we will face permanent restrictions to deal with “climate change.

#16 "NUTS!" on 12.17.20 at 1:55 pm

Garth, you and I have never been more aligned. My comment yesterday about foregoing your right to medical attention if you didn’t get vaxxed was not my desire, I was only asking the question. You can bet Insurance companies will take this into account, like they do other ‘risks’. We have become so self centred, giving away our responsibility to the greater community. Its a shot for heaven’s sake. No one is asking you to protect the community by sending your children off to die in combat . . . but there was a time when they did to protect the greater community.

Is this really too much to ask? Really?

#17 belly rubs on 12.17.20 at 1:55 pm

“Why would Costco, Home Depot or Canadian Tire allow the unvaxed to mingle with other customers? Don’t kid yourself. You might end up being a modern leper.”

Worth checking, but I think the Nuremberg trials discussed the flaws of sanctioning healthy people who refuse medical treatment. What you can do is isolate someone who is sick, but alas, sticking it to healhy people could potentially be a big no no. A legal beagle might way in.

#18 Sara on 12.17.20 at 1:55 pm

I find it interesting that some anti-vaxers use possible, rare side effects to support their view, yet at the same time claim COVID death and serious disease is rare so why worry about it.

#19 Andrewski on 12.17.20 at 1:57 pm

My gym is open, mandatory mask. My ski hill is open, mandatory mask. My grocery store, liquor store, restaurant, etc., mandatory mask. No big deal to mask up!

#20 Flop... on 12.17.20 at 2:00 pm

I was supposed to have surgery earlier this year but elective surgery got shut down.

They called me the other day because they had a cancellation the next day.

What to do?

All my family is well at the moment, and no trip planned in a couple of weeks like normal with the wife.

Go time!

Grateful the hospital was fully functioning and hopefully when this virus is put to bed I will be able to walk around in less pain.

I saw on the news this morning that flights from Vancouver to Hawaii are resuming, little bit jealous, have a swim for me.

Never mind, I’m just gonna crawl over and slide into the bath tub.

Practically the same experience…

M46BC

#21 Overheardyou on 12.17.20 at 2:01 pm

Could not agree more Hon. Mr. Turner!
Too bad there are so many that are in the ME category and the WE does not matter.

From my experience, the WFHers (who were least affected) that are most resistant to being jabbed and plead their freedom is at stake and they’re the ones with the degrees.

#22 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 2:05 pm

140 calgaryPhantom on 12.17.20 at 12:46 pm
01 Howard on 12.17.20 at 4:34

“ Talented young Canadians MUST leave the country and build lives elsewhere. It’s the only way.”

-Yeah no thanks. Life is good. The grass is definitely not greener anywhere else.

MF

————————————————————————

MF,

You will be surprised. There are a lot of places in this word where you get to keep most of your salary with you, where weather is much more comfortable, where people talk about things other than houses and where people get more chances to excel and get rich.
Canada is great for all the natural beauty and safety it has to offer, but that doesn’t translate to a happy and full filling life.
——————
Sounds yummy.
Where are those magical places?

#23 Adam Smith on 12.17.20 at 2:06 pm

Well said Garth!

I recommend this video for people anyone knows who are scared about vaccines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBkVCpbNnkU&ab_channel=Kurzgesagt%E2%80%93InaNutshell

The video doesn’t call them dumb and it legitimately addresses real concerns with vaccines and then explains why – statistically – vaccines are still obviously the no-brainer way forward.

You can then explain that the vaccines Canada is getting do not have any of the preservatives that often scare people and, as mRNA vaccines, do not have any virus and so should be even safer than normal vaccines.

#24 Sara on 12.17.20 at 2:08 pm

#21
“From my experience, the WFHers (who were least affected) that are most resistant to being jabbed and plead their freedom is at stake and they’re the ones with the degrees. ”

From my experience, generally speaking, those with less education are more resistant to wearing masks and vaccines.

#25 Roial1 on 12.17.20 at 2:08 pm

“Off topic”

Garth, are you enjoying your WHITE OUT? LOLOLOL

From the green Island in the “Heavenly West.”
AKA Lotus land.

There is one inch of snow outside my office door at the moment. The first of the winter. Looks sweet. – Garth

#26 Kyle on 12.17.20 at 2:08 pm

I think there is a large % of people in the bucket that I fall in. Very little trust in governments and institutions that will initially hold out on getting the jab. We want to see some serious data, once that is available will then likely get jabbed if it looks reasonable.

I’m glad you’re not in the military. – Garth

#27 Truth hurts on 12.17.20 at 2:13 pm

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#28 Barb on 12.17.20 at 2:13 pm

Vaccination. A social contract.

So are WFH folks generally also anti-vaxxers?

WFH people are introverts
https://www.stylist.co.uk/life/introverts-working-from-home-coronavirus-self-belief/428559

Employers, save yourselves the $2K psych profile for hiring.

#29 Neo on 12.17.20 at 2:17 pm

“In the 1950s all we little snots had to line up and be vaccinated at school. No exceptions. No jab, no education. And today there is essentially no measles, mumps, chickenpox or polio for your children to worry about or sicken from. We did that for you. Now it’s your turn, so Covid is gone for future generations.”

Garth,

All those vaccines are “sterility vaccines” meaning one shot and lifetime immunity that were extensively tested in looooong trials and eradicate the virus. I’ve taken all those shots and had no problems with my kids taking them.

That’s NOT what this vaccine is. It is a “protective vaccine” that offers temporary immunity and doesn’t eradicated the virus but lessens existing symptoms. Moreover, anyone under 17 for Pfizer and 19 for Moderna cannot take the vaccine so kids can’t even take both vaccines.

I find it counterproductive to deal in extremes but that’s what we are left with in politics and any social discourse. “Anti-Vaxxer” is NOT my position and not the position of many others. There can be nuance to a discussion without the polarization.

So are you taking it? – Garth

#30 Faron on 12.17.20 at 2:25 pm

#103 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 2:42 am

But they aren’t turbines

Actually they are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine

It’s revenue neutral because they have lots of fake green plans to spend the money on.

revenue neutral means for every dollar collected, a dollar is returned to the taxpayer.

I worked 4 years right in the heart of one of the largest US electric companies

Bechtel? NRG Energy?

With your experience, what do you think of this report?

https://environmenthalfcentury.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf331/files/2020-12/Princeton_NZA_Interim_Report_15_Dec_2020_FINAL.pdf

Seems comprehensive, but I’ve only read the executive summary and the NYT reporting on it.

(they are not “renewable”, they don’t last forever and the windmill blades go to the landfill 20 years later)

Of course infrastructure degrades. Renewable refers to the wind and sun pushing turbine blades and electrons around. That resource isn’t going to get used up on any human timescales.

Why are you and others so bitter about renewables? Comes across as being invested in its destruction.

#31 Roial1 on 12.17.20 at 2:27 pm

There is one inch of snow outside my office door at the moment. The first of the winter. Looks sweet. – Garth

I have to admit it, Garth.

Being originally from Ont. I miss it at times. Like when I am in Mexico or Aus.

NOT!

#32 belly rubs on 12.17.20 at 2:28 pm

Climate change is a real threat – science is settled.
Humans cause climate change – science is settled.
Humans are catching a disease – science is settled…

Watching this play out. Being a natural habitat guy with 4000 hectares of preserve out my back window, I’m having a hard time being “up with people” today. Last summer the gov revealed the mountain sheep had a disease, so they flew around in helicopters and shot them all. It was horrific.

#33 Darcy on 12.17.20 at 2:35 pm

Had a sales video call with a lady from Michigan today. Was chain-smoking the entire time……. Worried about bad health effects from the vaccine.

#34 Piano_Man87 on 12.17.20 at 2:36 pm

The chance of having a serious health issue from the vaccine is far less than the chance of having a serious health issue from contracting COVID-19.

That’s really all there is to it.

#35 Howard on 12.17.20 at 2:39 pm

Will the WFH addicts, the majority of whom (61%) are under 34 quit in a huff and look for a new job? Time will tell.

————————————-

Of course they won’t simply quit if they have nothing else lined up. Believe it or not, most people aren’t that stupid.

What they WILL do, however, is start scouting out new job opportunities as soon as their paleo bosses force them back to their open-plan office purgatory 5 days a week just to suit the boss’s ego. If high unemployment continues, they’ll have no choice but to stay – but high unemployment won’t continue indefinitely.

This will become an important differentiator between good employers and bad ones. And bad employers usually have to settle for lower quality staff.

#36 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 2:39 pm

YOU were at your very BEST today My Liege.

Like everyone else here, AMEN to what you wrote and:

Hallelujah.

———————

“Unemployment has surged.” -Garth

I’ll say.

From StatCan today:

Regular Employment Insurance beneficiaries, Oct. 2020
1,354,240
469.7% (monthly change)

Regular Employment Insurance beneficiaries (year-over-year change)
198.9%

About 1.4 million Canadians received regular EI benefits, more than triple the number in February (446,000)

In October, 32.8% of all regular EI beneficiaries last worked in three industries hardest-hit by public health measures:
-Accommodation and food services (18.3%);
-Retail trade (10.5%); and
-Arts, entertainment and recreation (4.0%)

———————

Devastating EI news today, just devastating.

It will get better Canada. The pandemic will end. And you will emerge from it like gangbusters…I have FAITH in the Little Economy that Could (and DOES).

#37 Roial1 on 12.17.20 at 2:40 pm

Had a sales video call with a lady from Michigan today. Was chain-smoking the entire time……. Worried about bad health effects from the vaccine.

RRRIIIGGGHHHTTT!!!!!!

#38 Last of the GenX on 12.17.20 at 2:40 pm

We’ve been told recently, time and again, that the vaccine will not prevent us from potentially carrying the virus – it will only prevent the symptoms, hence vaccinated people will be asked to continue wearing the mask until enough people have been vaccinated.

Given that, while I may understand why my employer would care if I’m vaccinated or not (as I might potentially get sick and be absent from work for weeks), I can’t really understand why Air Canada or Costco would care.

I’d happily get jabbed tomorrow if that would rid me of the mask, as I really have trouble breathing through it and pretty much stay at home and do nothing these days. Unfortunately, it seems that this is not how it works. And so, other than not contributing to the overall goal of X% vaccinated so that restrictions could be lifted, the anti-vaxxers don’t really seem to be endangering anyone but themselves.

#39 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 2:48 pm

Here’s what the data says:

– Masks don’t work, see the Danish study.
– Social distancing doesn’t work, see the US military study
– Covid cases are directly correlated to change in outdoor temperature, see the Goldman Sachs study
– PCR tests are useless, especially at cycles over 30, see the inventor of the test

So, on what scientific basis are these draconian measures being foisted upon us?

#40 Emma Zaun - GreaterFool Unpaid Intern #007 on 12.17.20 at 2:49 pm

***WARNING***

**Graphic and potentially disturbing content and imagery below**

The Greater Fool Amazons are implementing mandatory lockdowns and virtual vaccinations effective immediately, as well as daily virtual COVID testing to be administered nasally, orally and/or anally, however we choose.

We will not let our physical health be further put at risk due to unvaccinated/untested conspiracy nutbars coming to this comments section. (Our mental health is already toast, thanks for nothing to the deplorables!)

Mr Turner has applied for and received approval for early stage access to Pfizer vaccines due to some of the very unstable and high risk individuals here. We will release details daily of the high priority commenters to be treated.

Day 1

Attention: TurnerNation

You are top of the list due to the possibly COVID-related mental instability you have demonstrated.

Starting tomorrow, upon approaching this blog, you are required to do the following:

1. Drop your trousers and underwear and bend over as you kiss Garth’s feet. Remove all objects up your a**.

2. Remain in that position. Keep your posterior uncovered and pointed to the sky. This will enable efficient testing and vaccination as soon as those needles arrive.

3. As winter is arriving, if your buttocks become cold while waiting in this position you can press your cheeks against those of Crowdedelevatorfartz, who will be in the same posture just behind you. He may be also able to provide some additional warming ventilation to comfort you. You can also vigorously rub your naked buttocks together against his to provide more warmth to both of you.

We apologize for any discomfort in this notice. The communication of these measures is graphic but necessary for our safety and health as well as yours.

*Anyone reading this alert and these instructions who is unable to sleep for two consecutive nights should speak to their physician. (If this lasts five nights or more, speak to an LGBTQ counsellor about strategies for coming out. Your employee benefits or employee assistance program may assist with the costs and delivery of this service.)

Stay safe,

Emma Zaun
Shop Steward
CUPE
(Canadian Union of Peelers and Exhibitionists)

#41 C V on 12.17.20 at 2:55 pm

Once the vaccine is available for all people I don’t see why it would be necessary to take for low risk individuals. If you’re under 50 and healthy the risks are almost irrelevant. If you are older or have underlying health problems then take it and you don’t have to worry about a non vaccinated person transmitting it to you. For young, healthy people to fear long term complications from a virus is no way to live. People need to have more respect for their body’s ability to heal. many people eat crap food, drink in high quantities and have unhealthy lifestyles in general. Your organs would be better off changing that then taking a vaccine to prevent the very unlikely chance of long term effects

#42 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 2:57 pm

European VIRUS PORN, Macron, Wales, Poor Sweden and Bewilderment (mine)

1. Emmanuel Macron Covid + (get better fast), Spanish PM self isolating have met with him in a recent EU summit (as other leaders are doing that were with him).

2. Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach ‘has failed’ – a good and just people that did not deserve this from their Gov.

3. 11,000 positive tests delayed in Welsh figures.

4. And the European Medicines Agency and their fangirl Ursula von der Leyen touting EMA’s Dec. 27 go ahead for EU vaccination to begin (10 day delay). CRIMINAL. I say fangirl since they were not supposed to meet until Dec. 29 to decide approval until people like me Tweeted to them they have BLOOD on their HANDS are criminals and to resign.

-European deaths yesterday = 5700 x 10 days = 57,000 Many, many more will die in the months to come thanks to the “Let them eat cake” EMA and EU.

-Italia sitting on 1.83 million doses (e.g., Lombardia has 305,000 doses in hand, ready to go) BUT unable to vaccinate until the CRIMINALS at the the EMA, EU say so.

——————————-

What Garth said today was the truth but if anything, have a read above and take solace…it could be worse.

Be grateful Gov’s Canada are vaccinating you*.

———–

*Well, after the Calgary Flames are done using the National allotment of vaccine. On this SHAME and King Singh is correct in damning this form of Private Healthcare for the wealthy and the ever so deserving, front of the line, hockey jocks.

#43 Stone on 12.17.20 at 2:58 pm

This virus has had a weird effect on society, shattering many bonds once taken as norms. Like the idea of going to work. You know, out of the house. With others. Colleagues. Or socializing with and befriending new people. Or joining a crowd of like-minded folks, cheering a team or a rocker on stage. Bonding in a common experience.

———

Bonds taken as a norm? As in shackles of servitude in favour of the employer? Pulease.

Also, most of the people at work are not your friends. You work with them or for them or they work for you. Outside of the entry level roles, friends is not the case. It’s the same as sex at work. Don’t shit where you eat. Also, get friends outside of work. It’s not that hard and the bond (shackles???) will be truer.

You have no friends at work? What a shock. – Garth

#44 hingadin on 12.17.20 at 2:59 pm

#32 belly rubs on 12.17.20 at 2:28 pm

Last summer the gov revealed the mountain sheep had a disease, so they flew around in helicopters and shot them all. It was horrific.

************

Eliminate the sheep, eliminate the problem. Perfect government solution.

Now, about the homeless problem…

#45 wendi1 on 12.17.20 at 3:00 pm

Actually, places that have had a real shutdown have practically eradicated the virus.

That will only last until their borders open, though.

If our governments had enforced quarantines and really shut down travel, we would be in much better shape. But I’m glad you’ve come around about distancing and masks.

#46 Piet on 12.17.20 at 3:00 pm

#19 Andrewski on 12.17.20 at 1:57 pm

“…My ski hill is open, mandatory mask…”

Unfortunately those attending the apres ski parties don’t appear to be following the mask rules, as evidenced by the recent outbreak at a resort in the Okanagan.

As for the vaccine, anyone who has been around since the mid twentieth century is likely to have known people killed or crippled by polio. Most families of that era directly knew the pain of losing children to infectious diseases. For our generation vaccines were a blessing that provided a sense of security. It is very disappointing to see that the low-information crowd now has so much influence in spreading antivax conspiracy nonsense that ultimately will be harmful for the larger population.

#47 Dragonslayer on 12.17.20 at 3:05 pm

Great post Garth. Hit the nail on the head.

#48 Sara on 12.17.20 at 3:05 pm

#32 belly rubs on 12.17.20 at 2:28 pm
Climate change is a real threat – science is settled.
Humans cause climate change – science is settled.
Humans are catching a disease – science is settled…

Watching this play out. Being a natural habitat guy with 4000 hectares of preserve out my back window, I’m having a hard time being “up with people” today. Last summer the gov revealed the mountain sheep had a disease, so they flew around in helicopters and shot them all. It was horrific.

=========================
I’d be horrified as well. Reminds me of when I was a young child (always loved animals) watching a wildlife show (Wild Kingdom I think), where men with guns in a helicopter shot and killed a poor wolf as it ran for its life. Was traumatizing for me at the time. :(

#49 Joe Schmoe on 12.17.20 at 3:13 pm

I still find that the current focus on handwashing/appropriate social distance has dramatically reduced the spread of the common cold and flu.

My kids are elementary age, been going to school and never been healthier. They are normally healthy kids, but only had one bought of the sniffles so far this school year.

Handwashing is a hoax! I will only make you weaker long term! The science is unproven, we will never know the impacts of personal hygiene for a few years…I will wait this one out.

#50 Fasa on 12.17.20 at 3:15 pm

As the old saying goes the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few…get the shot!

With that being said, how the hell would Walmart, Costco or Home Depot or any retail outlet enforce the fact that if you don’t have the vaccine you cannot shop? Are we all going to have bracelets or proof on our phone that we took the jab…that is crazy!

On the work front, I really do believe that people will return to the office, however I think it will be a hybrid of maybe 2/3 days in and the rest remote, that will have implications on housing in the city for sure, my office did not renew the lease on one of the two floors we have and have told everyone show up for 2 days and be remote for the other 3 once things get back to normal which is fine by me.

Lastly for those that push to work remote full time be very careful, remote can mean anywhere in the world done by anybody with the same skill sets at a 1/3 of the of the cost…just saying.

#51 Doug t on 12.17.20 at 3:17 pm

The world is changing – people’s faith and trust in governments, social institutions, police, and each each other is not the same as it was in the 50’s or 60’s – society is devolving in ways that we have never quite seen before – the explosion of technology over the last 25 years is largely responsible- it has caused us to be less social, less companionate, less trusting and more insular – in decades past citizens lined, no questions asked (good or bad) and did what they were told – not so anymore, if faith in the “systems” is not there then Participation in social contracts evaporate

#52 mike from mtl on 12.17.20 at 3:19 pm

Well that’s a big IF, to say the bug will be completely eradicated. Even by 2022. If it is really as contagious as it seems, unless the vax is 100 per cent effective (not), it will always be around. Think of all the 4 & 5th world holes that will never get one. Us first worlders might be more or less immune to effects but transmission is not clear, but who knows for everyone else.

It’s been reported apparently even the RN and Orderlies aren’t all on board so to speak as the general population. Interesting that while suggested even the Flu vax is at best 50% for these workers.

Legally there’s no way to FORCE anything, even for employers. Only way that’d be possible if there was a clear working environment mandate from CSST that an employer can point to. Just as I can’t sue my employer for any personal injury or damages outside of CSST and labour laws.

Obviously it’s in everyone’s best interest to get dosed once available and not emergency trial, but I’d imagine mandatory is a legal mess many won’t go into. Strongly advised would be appropriate.

#53 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 3:19 pm

#25 Roial1

““Heavenly West*.”
AKA Lotus land.

———————-

*You mean “Heavenly Mist” as in rain forest, ALL.WINTER.LONG. Fungii, lichen and duck happy climate. The capital of umbrellas, rainscreened homes, condos and black rot.

So urine proud of a Vitamin D deficient climate (latter useful against Covid).

Big fish. Small pond. The Left Coast. Provincial neuroses, Much Ado About…

1 inch of fresh snow reads better to me. And I live in Italia.

#54 Faron on 12.17.20 at 3:24 pm

While I think everyone should get the vaccine, there’s an interesting interplay between COVID treatment and recent trends in medicine from a paternalistic, do as I say ’cause I’m the doc, model to the informed consent model.

The idea is that forcing on enforcing treatment results in backlash like what we are seeing now in the comments section whereas the informed consent approach is more respectful and often leads to greater compliance.

Informed consent is being tested dearly with COVID and now the vaccine. Here, it’s actually dangerous for people to choose not to partake in a therapy or to take mitigative actions. The burden of public health is on the shoulders of all of us. Yet, docs and public health folks have to use informed consent in their messaging and direct treatment. The paternalistic model such as what probably still is in full effect in China will result in a better health outcome at the expense of freedom of choice. It already has resulted in a better outcome. That’s a huge ethical conundrum for medical science and society as a whole and it’s just starting to be unwound.

#55 Sarah on 12.17.20 at 3:30 pm

Thank you! Great post! I’m usually too intimidated to post a comment but I feel I can contribute to today’s post. It baffles me how some people don’t understand what is a “social contract”. Living in a society and enjoying all the wonderful aspects of it is not a free ride. Everyone has to do their part. My grandparents had to fight in the war. I have to wear a mask and get vaccinated. Am I nervous about the vaccine? Definitely. Anything new is a bit scary. But my paternal grandfather had to fly over Germany and drop bombs and then try and make it home without dying. I can get a vaccine that will help save me, my loved ones and my community.

#56 Faron on 12.17.20 at 3:32 pm

#50 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 3:19 pm

#25 Roial1

There is unspeakable natural beauty in every landscape on this earth. The west coast punches you in the face with it’s massive trees, raging ocean, mountains, dampness and overbearing greenery. I was lucky enough to spend sunrise yesterday surfing with a view of the Olympic mountains while soaking in the brine. Other places are more subtle. We should all be thankful and take none of it for granted.

#57 Henry Dougan on 12.17.20 at 3:33 pm

What about the social contract about everyone paying taxes on all their income and not only 30% to 40% of Canadians paying most if not all the total taxes in Canada.

This social contract is such BS just like many Liberal, left, socialist, marxist, communist policies are. There is no place where one can get a total tax count of all taxes, government fees, levies, charges etc. paid by each individual during their entire life and what benefits they received their entire life. This would bring out the true nature of what government and their organizations that are all working together with them really is. A snake oils salesperson that never can and will solve anything for the betterment of humanity. Let’s see if my comments get through here.

#58 Ancient Ron on 12.17.20 at 3:38 pm

Although I am told by friends that a blue hospital mask enhances my appearance, I look forward to leaving them in the back of a closet.

Get the shot folks, no brainer.

Thx Garth. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

#59 SWL on 12.17.20 at 3:42 pm

Perhaps if governments and big pharma had even a sliver of credibility leading up to this pandemic, and lead by example when it comes to having a moral compass we wouldn’t be having this debate

I’m no anti-vaxer, but we do have every right to be skeptical and should not instantly squash any logical debate on the subject

#60 neo on 12.17.20 at 3:45 pm

So are you taking it? – Garth

Did you happen to read the vaccine roll out plan Garth?

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-releases-three-phase-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-plan-with-inoculations-to-begin-on-tuesday-1.5226772

We are currently in Phase 1.

Phase 2 is winter 2021.

Phase 3 for general healthy population is no current date.

Will not be available to children in the roll out plan as no trials for children have even started yet.

Since I’m in the phase 3 group it’s a mute point. I don’t live the future Garth so hopefully by then we will have more information that is more properly vetted about this vaccine and I can make a more informed decision.

Three months into a 2 year trial isn’t enough and it hasn’t been properly peer reviewed yet.

Making it mandatory when it won’t even be available to the majority of the population to me is nonsense.

Having someone who took the vaccine and has this “immunity card” but is still possibly a spreader is silly.

Having it only offer 3-6 months of immunity depending on the individual is a logistical nightmare of issuance.

Like I said, if this was a “sterile vaccine” with one shot and lifetime immunity with full completed trials then it would be a different conversation….But it isn’t.

The reality is only three countries in the world have approved this Pfizer vaccine and only for emergency use. It’s the most prudent way to go forward. Approving it for general use would have cancelled the current trials and prevented long term effects from being discovered in trials. Now these governments have stretched these phases out long enough for more information to be gathered since this was a rushed process begin with. It will be at least another year until it is available to the general public.

#61 Calgary Rip Off on 12.17.20 at 3:46 pm

What about people that have been denied the opportunity to bond? Those people exist. It is often assumed at a major event like a rock concert that people have a common bond. Maybe they do. Maybe they dont. Or maybe people just exist.

What is at issue with vaccines is long term data and efficacy. Is there solid evidence for RNA vaccines that they do in fact protect against real covid and do not affect prions, fertility or cause long term problems? No there is no evidence. A scientist said that RNA vaccines are “theoretically safe”. Would a person drive a car that is deemed theoretically safe by a manufacturer? No. While the reality that driving a car is theoretically safe, the manufacturer of the car cant say that.

You mentioned safety of a population. If the RNA vaccine introduces unknown variables, how is that safe? What about the SHADE trial examining vitamin D3 in acutely ill Covid patients? Vitamin D3 has shown repeated efficacy in combatting Covid and is safe. There was a recent lecture by Medcram on youtube regarding this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg It seems according to data that Covid 19 infection lessens in body Vitamin D3 reserves, and that those high in Vitamin D3 will have mild infection, if any at all, therefore perhaps such individuals will not contribute to spreading of the Covid 19 virus?

What is at issue is not a vaccine, however a vaccine using technology that has a history of safety. No such safety exists for RNA. In fact, in testing previous RNA vaccines on cats, cats vaccinated showed antibodies. Then when presented with the real antigen, all the cats died. Is this applicable to humans? Hopefully not.

At my work, two of the fellow physicians are receiving the Pfizer vaccine this weekend. I hope they do well. I also hope that the RNA doesnt cause prion problems or anything long term for which Pfizer is not responsible.

I will not be taking any RNA vaccine until there is long term data. Im ok with using a vaccine that has long term data, like the flu vaccine. Otherwise it is a no. “Theoretically safe” is not good enough.

#62 Nick on 12.17.20 at 3:47 pm

I’m 32. My company is planning on bringing people back to the office next year…and I’m planning on quitting. I’ve had a taste of freedom and I’m not going back. Smart companies will capitalize on people like me.

As for COVID-19 vaccines, I’m skeptical. There has been a lot of societal pressure and financial incentive to rush the development of these. As someone who has a low risk of developing complications from COVID-19, I see no sense in taking the vaccine until it is proven (empirically) to be safe. I will let the high-risk people be the guinea pigs.

As for societal cohesion, I don’t feel much of it, to be honest. I blame excessive immigration and multiculturalism for contributing to the fragmentation of our society. If the government begins forcing people to take the vaccine, I will happily leave. I have options.

If you want young Canadians to be loyal to Canada, stop screwing them over. That is all.

#63 Blacksheep on 12.17.20 at 3:47 pm

It seems we will all be wearing masks for a very, very long time…..

This is not a pro or ant-vax comment, or my opinion, just documented facts.

These vaccines have been designed / tested at an efficacy level (90+%) to:

“Prevent COVID-19 symptoms and serious disease”

Surprisingly, no claim has been made by Pfizer that the vaccine will prevent the taker from becoming “infected with this virus.” In fact, they don’t know whom exactly became infected in their (Pfizer’s) study because testing for the actual infection, was never done.

Think of it this way: A person can become infected with HIV, but that does not necessarily mean, they will develop the full blown sickness called AIDS.
—————————————————-
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/12/08/pfizer-vaccine-evaluation-fda-immunization-safe-effective/3860002001/

From the USA Today link:

“Does the vaccine prevent infection or just symptoms?

Right now, all we know is that the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna candidate vaccines prevent COVID-19 symptoms and serious disease. It’s not clear whether someone could catch the virus that causes COVID-19 and pass it on to someone else, even without becoming ill.

The studies designed to test the candidate vaccines only examined symptomatic infections, not whether vaccinated people could still be contagious.
This means that people who are vaccinated can be pretty sure that they won’t develop COVID-19 themselves, but they could still pass it on to others without knowing they are infected.”

#64 Jaheer on 12.17.20 at 3:50 pm

Go ahead and get the jab, I just hope they don’t deny those who prefer the cheap, effective solutions (no longer patented so no $ for big pharma) of ivermectin, doxycycline, hydrochloroquine. I don’t want to be a voluntary Guinea pig until evil forces me

#65 SugarPlumber on 12.17.20 at 3:54 pm

“This year the virus has defeated us, causing economic devastation. Half the country is in, or entering, serious new lockdowns. But they haven’t worked thus far. Neither has wide-spread mask wearing, physical distancing, sanitizing everything that moves or leaping off sidewalks. There is only one door to normalcy. And only if enough people go through it. Vaccination.”

To be fair, all these measures WOULD have worked, if there wasn’t an underlying current of s**theads and wannabe rebels flouting the guidance from the medical professionals. We’re paying the bill because a whole whack load of us are dumber than tree stumps.

#66 Bryan on 12.17.20 at 3:56 pm

The government will not have to force you to take it. You will not be able to get on a plane, a bus, a train, go to school, go into a public building, or go to work if you do not get it.

#67 willworkforpickles on 12.17.20 at 3:57 pm

For those looking for a not too faraway place to re-locate. Detroit offers some very reasonably priced real estate.
Although prices have recently skyrocketed to the $40,000.00+ mark for a 4bdrm SFH …that’s just $5000.00 over the city median price.
Rejuvenation in some areas since the great recession does appear to have come undone somewhat since the pandemic arrived.
Yet…the D still makes the best barbecue chips in America…something for all of you trailer park boys to consider.
No need to go to old mexico…its safer and cheaper here…and closer too.
…..get that – smiley face green teeth realtor-esque info.
brought to you by the smiley face green teeth realtors of america group.

#68 Jaheer on 12.17.20 at 3:58 pm

#54 Faron

Why should everyone be forced to get the vaccine? You understand they don’t even know if it grants immunity from getting or spreading the virus right? All it is supposed to do is minimize the effects when you do get it. Just heard a doctor on CBC the other day state that. But I do encourage you to get it asap

#69 Coho on 12.17.20 at 4:00 pm

Been a while but can’t resist. How else can the host keep a captured readership if not by baiting the whackos, whack jobs, anti-vaxers, wing nuts, lunatics, conspiracy theorists, and tin foilers–affectionately known as the deplorables. Labels abound. I’d list more but some on here resent posts over a sentence long such is their attention span.

A recent post stated that governments are supposed to listen to the people and not the other way around. Well, if the energy of those in the comment section, except for a very few, is any indication, the disdain many hold for entire swaths of people is a glaring example of why we have the leaders we do. Give these arrogant and disrespectful ones power and we get puppets, not leaders.

#70 Hawk on 12.17.20 at 4:02 pm

#26 Kyle on 12.17.20 at 2:08 pm

Well said, I really want to know, in particular, name by name who among the elites in our government are taking the vaccine, did their children take it, can they demonstrate clear proof they’ve taken it.

One thing is indisputably certain. In America the politicians who literally made laws restricting freedoms, mandating masks etc. have been caught time and again on video (check out youtube) breaking those very laws, and receiving no punishments. This is not opinion, but fact. Pelosi, Feistein, many in California. For now, I can’t think of any Canadian names, but if a person can’t trust their politicians in other matters are they going to trust them in something this critical.

My suggestion to people who are pro-vaccination is that they should demand proof that all leaders are taking what they are pushing on to the rest of the population FIRST.

What can you lose by demanding this verification?

Relax. All will take it. But the optics of leaders being first in the queue would be a political negative. Guys like you would pounce. – Garth

#71 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 4:02 pm

#39 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 2:48 pm
So, on what scientific basis are these draconian measures being foisted upon us?
…..
Based on science that doesn’t use cherry picked results/studies and/or oversimplification to reach a preconceived conclusion.

#72 N on 12.17.20 at 4:03 pm

Not sure if it’s cowardice that makes people resist. The fear’s probably rooted in “trust” as an issue. In whom should we trust?

#73 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 4:04 pm

“Deciding not to vax is no free ride…Don’t kid yourself. You might end up being a modern leper.” -Garth

————–

They already have vaccination record cards in the UK – scroll down to view.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/12/world/americas/covid-vaccine-us-uk-canada.html

Covid tested flights at Fiumicino Airport (bar code and all) and Alitalia for a couple months already, at least.*

https://www.adr.it/web/aeroporti-di-roma-en-/coronavirus
[scroll for barcode]

https://www.alitalia.com/en_it/fly-alitalia/news-and-activities/news/covid-tested-flights.html

Modern Day Leper ALREADY happening in Europa. When it comes between me and thee, the answer is obvious.

Human Nature. Survival of the fittest (a.k.a., the vaccine carded).

Yup. Yet another COVID-19 day on Planet Earth.

———————–

*YVR geniuses and West Jet touting their “experiment” there as ground breaking with UBC assistance…take a flight to Roma Fiumicino and learn instead you Made in Canada, reinvent the wheel, buffoons.

Hubris/arrogance, if any there was, from the Left Coast.

#74 Sask to AB on 12.17.20 at 4:05 pm

re #34 Piano_Man87 on 12.17.20 at 2:36 pm

I agree!!!!!!

#75 Smartalox on 12.17.20 at 4:07 pm

I’ll get the shot when it is available to me, though I understand and appreciate that I am probably pretty far down the list.

I can work from home,
I can order goods online for delivery or contactless pick up
I’ll happily wear a mask to meet with people or shop in person
I’ve been doing this for months now, I think that I can continue indefinitely.

But I DO want to travel again,
I want to see and hug my family and friends again
I want to celebrate the lives of the loved ones that we’ve lost this year, not directly due to Covid, but the grieving process has effectively been put ‘on hold’ because we can’t gather.

I want my son to be able to play with his friends in the neighborhood again. I want to invite friends over again. To shake hands again.

#76 south slope gardener on 12.17.20 at 4:07 pm

“We all have a moral, ethical responsibility and duty to be vaxed. This is our social contract. Break it if you wish, but fear the cost.”
Thank you Garth

#77 Canuck on 12.17.20 at 4:08 pm

DELETED

#78 Phil on 12.17.20 at 4:09 pm

Turner/Turner Nation…OK, now I get it.

#79 Prince Polo on 12.17.20 at 4:09 pm

Thanks for writing about it Garth! I will repost what I wrote earlier:
#181 Prince Polo on 12.08.20 at 12:06 pm
I still don’t quite understand how so many in “society” want to reap the benefits, while concurrently holding a somewhat daft interpretation of the “social contract” that is required. I weep for thee, Canada, and I’m one of those (despicable & selfish) millennials that’s ready for my 2021 needle-prick!

Please don’t be daft, Canada!

=============================
While most of us probably have deep COVID fatigue, let’s not forget that the medical profession has been seeing it up close day-in and day-out. We’ve got nothing to complain about as these “pathogen soldiers” are the true heroes of our time! How many will be rec’nized for their Herculean efforts?

#80 sheeple on 12.17.20 at 4:09 pm

All the comments here suggest the vaccine will protect you. They never said that! They only claim it may lessen your effects when you do get it. What am I missing here?

Fewer sick people. No health care crisis. People get their cancer and cardiac surgery. Can you not read? – Garth

#81 weiners on 12.17.20 at 4:11 pm

Ooh, I never thought about the microchip…….

#82 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 4:13 pm

#49 Joe Schmoe
Handwashing is a hoax! I will only make you weaker long term! The science is unproven, we will never know the impacts of personal hygiene for a few years…I will wait this one out.
—————–
Is showering a hoax, too.
Then your social life must stink.
At least you’re saving a ton on water and soap.

#83 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 4:13 pm

#60 Coho*

You mean Toronto and Montréal**. They are your voters of questionable Gov Federally:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File:Canada_Election_2019_Results_Map_(Simple).svg

*And if Coho alludes to the Left Coast as your domain, then use the Magnifying pointer for the above graphic and ZOOM IN on YVR (unnecessary for all of Vancouver Island – pretty in Orange, minor Green blob in Victoria).

———————

**Still say since they voted the Fed Gov in (King Singh and Royal Courtesan Trudeau) they should have to pay for the deficit, of course Vancouver Island and swaths of YVR included.

The rest of the country had nothing do with it.

#84 Leichendiener on 12.17.20 at 4:14 pm

#42 There has been so many media ‘hit’ pieces on how Sweden is handling COVID virus pandemic that I now subscribe to a daily english news bulletin from Sweden called ‘The Local’ to get perspective. And yes, Carl XVI Gustaf’s interview is covered, in context. And during the Second World War who were they aligned with? Nobody. The Swedes have always marched to a different drummer.

#85 Howard on 12.17.20 at 4:15 pm

#34 Piano_Man87 on 12.17.20 at 2:36 pm
The chance of having a serious health issue from the vaccine is far less than the chance of having a serious health issue from contracting COVID-19.

That’s really all there is to it.

————————————–

For adults maybe. Not so for kids.

The regulators seem to agree – I don’t think it’s yet approved for children anywhere.

#86 yvr_lurker on 12.17.20 at 4:19 pm

Yes, I do agree that getting the vaccine is the way to go, despite the fact that we will only really learn the true effectiveness of it as time goes on. The initial studies were promising, but there is a lot to learn. The dire situation now means that we should just take it and put some trust in the brilliant scientists who had the break-throughs.

However, I can’t see how going forward we are going to have some little minion making 10 bucks an hour standing at the entrance to the Super-store, or Walmart, or Costco, checking little vaccination records of hordes standing in line to get in. This would be abuse for the minion and the hordes. Fist-fights have broken out already for just the concept of wearing a mask in a store.

However, with Airplanes it is probably a yes. Going go to Africa in the past I recall having to provide proof of yellow fever and whatever was needed.

As for the WFH situation, I frankly really am happy with it and am more productive than before since there are less distractions. Garth assumes that we all greatly miss all of the contacts and spending oodles in restaurants, shops, patronizing expensive cultural activities , and other ways to waste $$$. I think it all depends on one’s level of introvertedness. I am just glad the ski hill is open, and I bring my own sandwich and snacks for me and my kid as I have done for as long as I can remember.

#87 Doug t on 12.17.20 at 4:21 pm

#62 nick

Good comments

#88 NSNG on 12.17.20 at 4:21 pm

The difference in risk:

If you get severe covid:

1. You might die.

or

2. You could be damaged internally for life.

Depending on your age, your covid case will likely be mild. You are probably the 99%.

The vaccine:

You probably won’t die.

The next question is will there be a small subsection of people that have adverse reactions to the vaccine. Is it 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000? That’s a lot of people where the vaccine numbers will be in the millions in Canada alone.

So many will be alive for decades and if they have an adverse reaction, they could be maimed for life. Is that better than death?

What will the government do for these people? They can’t sue. So if they are disabled by the vaccine they are stuck with a debilitating disease and probably stuck on a meager disability pension for the rest of their life.

Are you going to trust a government that has been caught lying and wrong in the past (the budget will balance itself, lockdowns will only be for a month) and might have ulterior motives?

I wonder how many people would get on a plane if the government said there was a chance that it could crash and the airlines would not be liable if it did?

Please detail the people this vaccine has ‘maimed’ in trials or innoculations. I heard of three allergic reactions with three recoveries. Where is your data coming from, or did you make it up? – Garth

#89 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 4:23 pm

#54 Faron on 12.17.20 at 3:24 pm
While I think everyone should get the vaccine, there’s an interesting interplay between COVID treatment and recent trends in medicine from a paternalistic, do as I say ’cause I’m the doc, model to the informed consent model.

The idea is that forcing on enforcing treatment results in backlash like what we are seeing now in the comments section whereas the informed consent approach is more respectful and often leads to greater compliance.

Informed consent is being tested dearly with COVID and now the vaccine. Here, it’s actually dangerous for people to choose not to partake in a therapy or to take mitigative actions. The burden of public health is on the shoulders of all of us. Yet, docs and public health folks have to use informed consent in their messaging and direct treatment. The paternalistic model such as what probably still is in full effect in China will result in a better health outcome at the expense of freedom of choice. It already has resulted in a better outcome. That’s a huge ethical conundrum for medical science and society as a whole and it’s just starting to be unwound.
—————
You’re right.
My Dr. Is Chinese but was trained here.
Best of two worlds for me.
As for paternalistic, Dr is a woman.

#90 Mileurista on 12.17.20 at 4:24 pm

Here in Spain we were locked down for nearly 2 months from mid-March till early May. Only dog owners were allowed out for a walk: I have 3 cats.

I do think the lockdown was the right decision. There really wasn’t any other option. But I also think that the restrictions in Spain went too far. During my online classes, many of my students admitted that they had broken the rules and visited boyfriends, attended house parties, etc. during confinement. Meanwhile since May we have entered a so-called “new normality”: bars and restaurants are packed. Shopping centres and main streets too. At the beach there’s no Covid, apparently.

I have to admit that this is testing my sense of solidarity and civic-mindedness. I’m feeling increasingly like an anti-social, cranky old man. Why should I get poked with a vaccine in order to protect my fellow citizens when they’re largely to blame for allowing the virus to spread in the first place? I know this isn’t the right response, that there are millions of other people like me, following the rules, behaving responsibly, avoiding agglomerations and unnecessary social interactions, but I feel increasingly isolated, angry, and resentful. Working from home doesn’t help.

Intellectually I understand this is irresponsible and petty, but I can’t help feel like I sacrificed 2 months of my life cooped up at home for nothing.

#91 baloney Sandwitch on 12.17.20 at 4:24 pm

One very small good thing to come from this is that the anti-vaxxers will be mostly gone and buried, like people against the wheel or fire.
Changing the subject, there was an interesting article in the NYT yesterday that Russia, Canada and Scandinavia will be big winners in the coming half-century as the North opens up for farming and food production.

#92 RyYYZ on 12.17.20 at 4:24 pm

You know, I a great time with my co-workers for 18 years (yes, in one job, in the IT industry!). But now I work with mostly people younger (much younger, mostly) than myself, plus we sit in “open” seating (yeah, great for productivity for a bunch of people who need to think deeply – programmers – to work) – at least I use to have a cubicle (and a window).

I can get my socializing elsewhere. I miss going to the cafeteria in a nearby building for lunch and seeing some of my old-coworkers (the ones who didn’t get laid off at the same time I did), but my office? Nah. I’m (honestly) more productive at home. Especially since as I’m home all the time and have little else to do a lot of the time, I work at all kinds of hours. And then there’s the time I don’t spend driving back and forth from work (1h minimum, usually more, sometimes much more).

No, I’d honestly rather work from home, maybe go to the office once or at most twice a week.

#93 Faron on 12.17.20 at 4:25 pm

#68 Jaheer on 12.17.20 at 3:58 pm

#54 Faron

You misread my post.

W/re your other.

…of ivermectin, doxycycline, hydrochloroquine. I don’t want to be a voluntary Guinea pig until evil forces me

You are willing enough to be a guinea pig by paying to take prescription meds that have known dangerous side effects off label and that have shown little to no benefit? But you wont take the free vaccine? Noted.

#94 R on 12.17.20 at 4:26 pm

Well said.We are looking forward to being vaccinated. We just want “normal “ again .To just being able to go out for a nice dinner without masking and social distancing again. It may take years . Thank You for your blog, Merry Xmas to you and yours .

#95 Howard on 12.17.20 at 4:28 pm

#62 Nick on 12.17.20 at 3:47 pm
I’m 32. My company is planning on bringing people back to the office next year…and I’m planning on quitting. I’ve had a taste of freedom and I’m not going back. Smart companies will capitalize on people like me.

As for COVID-19 vaccines, I’m skeptical. There has been a lot of societal pressure and financial incentive to rush the development of these. As someone who has a low risk of developing complications from COVID-19, I see no sense in taking the vaccine until it is proven (empirically) to be safe. I will let the high-risk people be the guinea pigs.

As for societal cohesion, I don’t feel much of it, to be honest. I blame excessive immigration and multiculturalism for contributing to the fragmentation of our society. If the government begins forcing people to take the vaccine, I will happily leave. I have options.

If you want young Canadians to be loyal to Canada, stop screwing them over. That is all.

———————————–

Good post. Agree with it all.

As far as leaving, if you’re unable to secure a job abroad from Canada, or don’t work for a multinational willing to transfer you, you might wish to consider a Working Holiday Visa program. Canada has such agreements with many countries. For some you must be under 30, which would obviously make you ineligible, but for others the cutoff is 35. Good stepping stone to emigration.

Canada is no country for young people unless their parents are rich. And even then, if you’re born into wealth and can therefore go anywhere with little financial risk, why on earth would you stay in Canada?

#96 Jake on 12.17.20 at 4:32 pm

Give Trump and all the anti vaxxers their wish and build a wall between them and the rest of society. Let’s see how well their herd immunity does. We know the answer, just look at Sweden.

#97 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 4:35 pm

PS: Vaccine carding.

Forgot to mention that if the number on your Vaccine Card is:

666

Tell NO ONE. SHOIW NO ONE. Don’t ask and above all, don’t…

Refuse that card before it gets stamped. For the Love of God, literally.

Now…shhhh, don’t tell you know who.

#98 David Pylyp on 12.17.20 at 4:38 pm

JABBER JABBER JABBER

ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM

everything extra going into the TFSA stock trading account. Soon you will need more space and want to move.

BUT … How will you see it ?

David Pylyp
Toronto

#99 Coho on 12.17.20 at 4:38 pm

Covid is a side show. Blaming Covid for everything is like blaming the fist and not the one throwing the punch. Blaming Covid is like blaming the bullet and not the one pulling the trigger. There is much much more going on.

We know the saying that when given lemons we are to make lemonade. If we consider Covid as being given a lemon, what exactly has been made out of it? Many would agree that Covid has been massaged into something much more sour than the original article.

Do we really believe that if enough people get vaccinated, normalcy will return? This in my opinion is a foolish assumption. Instead, places like coffee shops, restaurants, and bars where people congregate to talk, discuss, socialize will likely face ongoing restrictions and in many cases cease to exist. Why, because gatherings are discouraged. Separating the people is important to restrict discourse, criticism and dissent. There are many reasons behind lockdowns and the implementation of social distancing.

Liquor stores, however, are open. People are welcome to pick up their favourite drink and get sloshed at home because over time it weakens them. People forced into a subsistence lifestyle without hope are more likely to resign themselves to finding comfort in the bottle especially when worship services are also under attack and restricted. Many people having lived and disempowered under authoritarian rule would attest that no small number of people were vodka soaked day in and day out feeling they had little else to live for.

Government and earthly powers want people beholden unto them and no higher power. Be careful of the future we look so forward to. Things are not looking to get better anytime soon, and likely not any time at all. This place is beyond redemption.

#100 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 4:39 pm

#59 SugarPlumber on 12.17.20 at 3:54 pm

To be fair, all these measures WOULD have worked, if there wasn’t an underlying current of s**theads and wannabe rebels flouting the guidance from the medical professionals. We’re paying the bill because a whole whack load of us are dumber than tree stumps.

——————–

The actual data proves this statement to be false.

Consider Arizona, Nevada, and California. 3 bordering states with different policies, same result:

https://i.imgur.com/s20shik.jpg

Or this:

Even a military enforced quarantine can’t stop the virus, study reveals:

All recruits wore double-layered cloth masks at all times indoors and outdoors, except when sleeping or eating; practiced social distancing of at least 6 feet; were not allowed to leave campus; did not have access to personal electronics and other items that might contribute to surface transmission; and routinely washed their hands. They slept in double-occupancy rooms with sinks, ate in shared dining facilities, and used shared bathrooms. All recruits cleaned their rooms daily, sanitized bathrooms after each use with bleach wipes, and ate preplated meals in a dining hall that was cleaned with bleach after each platoon had eaten. Most instruction and exercises were conducted outdoors. All movement of recruits was supervised, and unidirectional flow was implemented, with designated building entry and exit points to minimize contact among persons. All recruits, regardless of participation in the study, underwent daily temperature and symptom screening. Six instructors who were assigned to each platoon worked in 8-hour shifts and enforced the quarantine measures. If recruits reported any signs or symptoms consistent with Covid-19, they reported to sick call, underwent rapid qPCR testing for SARS-CoV-2, and were placed in isolation pending the results of testing.

Instructors were also restricted to campus, were required to wear masks, were provided with preplated meals, and underwent daily temperature checks and symptom screening. Instructors who were assigned to a platoon in which a positive case was diagnosed underwent rapid qPCR testing for SARS-CoV-2, and, if the result was positive, the instructor was removed from duty. Recruits and instructors were prohibited from interacting with campus support staff, such as janitorial and food-service personnel. After each class completed quarantine, a deep bleach cleaning of surfaces was performed in the bathrooms, showers, bedrooms, and hallways in the dormitories, and the dormitory remained unoccupied for at least 72 hours before reoccupancy.

Pretty stringent, right?

What were the results of the study?

The 2.8% of the re ruits under strict military quarantine caught Covid vs only 1.7% of those recruits NOT under quarantine!!!

So the strictest mitigation efforts have ZERO if not NEGATIVE effects of controlling covid.

https://www.aier.org/article/even-a-military-enforced-quarantine-cant-stop-the-virus-study-reveals/

#101 Burnaby Boy on 12.17.20 at 4:39 pm

Only two things are certain in life – death and taxes.
Having delayed the death of us old fossils for another season BC announced today that the deficit is $13.6 Billion which on top of the federal deficit is…..? Time to go back to bed.

#102 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 4:43 pm

#56 Faron on 12.17.20 at 3:32 pm
#50 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 3:19 pm

#25 Roial1

There is unspeakable natural beauty in every landscape on this earth. The west coast punches you in the face with it’s massive trees, raging ocean, mountains, dampness and overbearing greenery. I was lucky enough to spend sunrise yesterday surfing with a view of the Olympic mountains while soaking in the brine. Other places are more subtle. We should all be thankful and take none of it for granted..
———
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I took a train once from Munich to the south of the former Yugoslavia.
Train was full of “guest workers” going home for the holidays.
As we got deeper into the country, the landscape got more and more desolate. Mudhouses, treeless, barren landscapes.
I was thinking to myself: who would want to live here?
Then I looked over to one of the guest workers with whom I’d spoken before.
He was crying. And he pointed outside and said in broken German: meine schoene Heimat.
I will never forget that.
That we shared a bottle of Slivovitz, probably added to the melodrama.
Merry x-mas, everyone.

#103 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 4:44 pm

Broken link in my last post…

https://i.imgur.com/S20ShIk.jpg

#104 Gb on 12.17.20 at 4:44 pm

Hey listen….there is a reason the under 35 crowd has more mental health anguish than ever before in history.

Humans are essentially primates….social primates.

We may innately want to shun the office but deep within our critter brains….we need social contact. Verbal and non verbal interaction.

This new generation with SoMe have inadvertently built a box around themselves and as a consequence…are often socially challenged.

#unhealthy.

#105 The Party is Over! on 12.17.20 at 4:45 pm

WFH will soon signal the unemployment line for hundreds of thousands of workers as companies, governments and organizations realize they will have to end the party.

#106 Mikes House on 12.17.20 at 4:45 pm

#53 Dolce Vita

“*You mean “Heavenly Mist” as in rain forest, ALL.WINTER.LONG. Fungii, lichen and duck happy climate. The capital of umbrellas, rain screened homes, condos and black rot.”
-12 here in Alberta almost a T shirt day, especially in the sun. Like autumn back home just… dry.
You overlooked the rather large Norwegian and brown rats. After living all up and down Vancouver Island for the better part of forty years and Moving to Edmonton Alberta I have never seen one here.

#107 Yukon Elvis on 12.17.20 at 4:48 pm

#56 Faron on 12.17.20 at 3:32 pm
#50 Dolce Vita on 12.17.20 at 3:19 pm

#25 Roial1

There is unspeakable natural beauty in every landscape on this earth. The west coast punches you in the face with it’s massive trees, raging ocean, mountains, dampness and overbearing greenery. I was lucky enough to spend sunrise yesterday surfing with a view of the Olympic mountains while soaking in the brine. Other places are more subtle. We should all be thankful and take none of it for granted.
………………….
There is a town called Sagada on the island of Luzon. High in the mountains of the Northern Cordillera. About a 10 hour bus ride from Manila. Average temperature is about 20C year round. Wild coconuts, bananas, oranges, orchids. Palm trees. Strawberries and peaches as well. Lush green jungles, rivers and waterfalls. Rice terraced mountains as far as the eye can see that were built before Christ walked the earth. Bilingual people speak Tagalog and English. Amazing for such a remote place. I thought that this might have been the Garden of Eden we hear about in the bible. Considered finishing out my life there. But I am old and have grandkids whom I wanted to know and spoil. I came back. But I will return there one day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagada

#108 Rico on 12.17.20 at 4:49 pm

Done the research and will be at the front of the line for the vaccine when offered.
signed notasheeple

#109 belly rubs on 12.17.20 at 4:53 pm

Brainstorm!!
Because we are all in this together, and we all equally share in the cost, the public debt, and the rewards of this glorious culture called Canada, I propose that any personal income over $100k be confiscated by the CRA and put in the public purse. This could run for five years. This would also lower the cost of housing… probably.

Aside, I found a whack of those bittycoin things I bought way back in the Obama years, thinking they might be collectable one day. Anyone still trade those? I could donate those to the government. My Mom says I should hold onto them. She’s 80, bless her heart. Just gonna go check if they are worth anything.

#110 Overheardyou on 12.17.20 at 4:55 pm

#24

That’s interesting to hear. How do you determine one’s education level?

When I said Degrees, I meant my friends who are in software engineering and management with WFH privileges. Who have decided to refuse to get jabbed.

My friends who are in the restaurant and retail business (No Degree or in Undergrad) were compliant put masks on and pray for a jab ASAP so they could pay for rent and put food on the table.

Thus my point being the Degreeless friends want the jab. Those who get to WFH don’t. I do have some WFH friends that can’t wait to go back to their offices though and would love the jab too.

#111 devore on 12.17.20 at 4:57 pm

Tom Cruise went on a rant yesterday about following rules at work, and got mostly roasted for it. But his point was the same. It’s not about you. There are people who depend on you doing your thing and followong the rules, even if you don’t like them. Because that’s the social contract. That’s how society stays civil and orderly.

If it’s just you, you can lose your job or go to prison, and it only materially affects you. Once you have a wife and children, that option is no longer a personal decision. It’s out of your hands. You have responsibilities. You want to do civil disobedience or activism, do it on your own time, where no one except you gets hurt by your actions.

You choose to do something that gets a movie set shut down and hundreds or thousands of people lose their jobs as a result, that is selfish and that is not right.

#112 Slim on 12.17.20 at 4:58 pm

Social distancing and lockdowns weren’t new ideas. It had saved many lives during the Spanish flu pandemic.

Mask wearing was also taken seriously by officials. A San Francisco health officer had even shot three people when one refused to wear a mandatory face mask.

Fifty to one hundred million people died worldwide from the Spanish flu, without the benefit of a vaccine.

Thankfully today, we have a vaccine to help end the Covid-19 virus pandemic.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

#113 Me on 12.17.20 at 5:00 pm

Great article, thanks Garth. I have a friend who lately has co-opted pretty much all of the whackadoodle theories you describe and more. I’m considering forwarding this on to him, but I don’t know if anyone can fix stupid these days when it’s become religion.

#114 zoey on 12.17.20 at 5:01 pm

For sure ! Everyone needs to get vax’d, its the common sense thing to do to protect the vulnerable unless they have some medical condition. No excuses. As for cases the media is still focuses on this metric, the wrong metric. The only metric that matters is the positivity rate ..it must go down as testing goes up.

I do feel for the non-WFH’s. At least we can adapt and continue our work where as they are forced into the unknown. Lets hope the vax ends this very soon.

#115 Canuck on 12.17.20 at 5:04 pm

Relax folks, we don’t live in an authoritarian country so you won’t be carded to buy a loaf of bread or keep your job.

#116 Mean Gene on 12.17.20 at 5:04 pm

Since the rate is 3x higher for the guys it is not a pressing issue.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/suicide-canada-key-statistics-infographic.html

#117 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 5:04 pm

#71 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 4:02 pm

#39 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 2:48 pm
So, on what scientific basis are these draconian measures being foisted upon us?
…..
Based on science that doesn’t use cherry picked results/studies and/or oversimplification to reach a preconceived conclusion

–‐————-

I’ve read all the studies. All available data shows that government mitigation efforts have no effect on the spread of Covid19.

The virus is going to do what the virus is going to do. Look at the cases today in Ontario… Their policies have failed to stop the spread of Covid19 because they are using junk science, from PCR testing in the 40 cycle range all the way down to mask wearing which according to the only widescale study, has zero effect, and can in fact be worse.

This has become purely political and the policy makers are NOT following the science.

Post you non cherry picked studies, let’s take a look.

#118 truefacts on 12.17.20 at 5:05 pm

#55 Sarah…

Thanks to your grandparents for their sacrifice.

The reason many people don’t give a crap about the whole liberal “social contract” idea is it’s BS.

While your grandparents fought in the war, Trudeau senior ran and hid – even though he was of age and healthy. He praised Mao, Castro, etc. He was rewarded for his “service” by becoming PM.

Now his son is PM. He told us all to stay home, then quickly took his entourage to his cottage!

People see through the BS. Leaders no longer lead but people still vote them in…

That was incredibly shallow. – Garth

#119 Editrix on 12.17.20 at 5:06 pm

Let’s not be surprised if the WFHers intentionally don’t get vaccinated so that they force their employers to keep them at home. It could turn into an HR nightmare if the employers try to fire them.

Personally, I am up to date on all my vaccinations as are my two autistic children. That said, at the moment I am wary of the COVID vaccine as it has been developed at “warp speed.” I will get the shot, but I plan to be one of the last so that if it causes allergic reactions, etc., all of those things will hopefully be addressed by the time it’s my turn. What’s to say it won’t cause a rare cancer three years from now? At one time thalidomide was considered a great drug.

#120 mattbg on 12.17.20 at 5:09 pm

Great post.

I think it’s normal to have some misgivings about being among the first to take a novel vaccine, but most of the people with concerns aren’t going to be among the first to get it and there should be ample evidence of safety/efficacy by the time most people are in line to get this.

#121 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 5:10 pm

#99 Burnaby Boy on 12.17.20 at 4:39 pm
Only two things are certain in life – death and taxes.
—————
Forgot the 3rd one:
Turner Nation Posts

#122 Barb on 12.17.20 at 5:14 pm

Worship services are “under attack”?
Isn’t the Bible take out?

#123 Trevor on 12.17.20 at 5:16 pm

Further to the government having no spine comment the other day, I don’t understand how the “Don’t Wear a Mask, go to Jail” line of thinking from the Spanish Flu days can’t or shouldn’t apply today. Or why everybody at any protest since COVID started shouldn’t be in jail. I am so sick of record deficits and having my kids not be able to see their grandparents because of leaders needing to be re-elected.

There desperately needs to be someone who will just run once and say as much in the election. In absentia, I’ll happily take a federal election without racist 1 and racist 2 as seemingly the only options to form a government.

#124 espressobob on 12.17.20 at 5:16 pm

I can understand why some individuals are scared of the jab.

Having a nasty hypodermic needle rammed into ones deltoid could prove quite excruciating. Your arm might fall off.

Those folks have my sympathy.

#125 Warren-the-lagging_indicator on 12.17.20 at 5:19 pm

I was ok with the demoralizing and shaming but whackadoodle has me triggered for sure. Just for that I am now on board with Trunq crossing the Rubicon and invoking the Insurrection Act coupled with executive order 13848.

#126 Guy on 12.17.20 at 5:25 pm

Well Said!

#127 Faron on 12.17.20 at 5:27 pm

#100 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 4:39 pm

#59 SugarPlumber on 12.17.20 at 3:54 pm

Consider Arizona, Nevada, and California. 3 bordering states with different policies, same result:

key word: bordering. Angelinos love them some gambling and, oh hey, look at the Grand Canyon. Etc.

w/re that article:

…participants and nonparticipants were not treated differently: they followed the same safety protocols, were assigned to rooms and platoons regardless of participation in the study, and received the same formal instruction.

Soooo, you take two groups and lock them down by equal amounts for two weeks in super close quarters (military training). And you get 2% spread. Yet you take a navy ship with no COVID controls in place and virtually everyone becomes infected. Hmmm.

Apples to oranges sure, but the mitigative measures in the study worked if you ask me.

#128 Blof Witzer The Stitatation Closet on 12.17.20 at 5:28 pm

Really makes you wonder what we’ve become when such a big segment of the population believes these falsehoods. The more outlandishly ridiculous it is the faster and deeper they internalize it. Microchips delivered by vaccine, come on, get a grip. People like Trump contradict themselves three times in one sentence offering up proof that they are lying yet people latch on to the most stupid part and repeat it.
I like being a hermit, no need to associate with those folks.
Oh yeah and there are a number of old studies showing how people working from home are the ones companies part with first if they need to slim the roster.

#129 Bonobo on 12.17.20 at 5:28 pm

Covid-19 is no normal disease. The fact that it strikes everywhere indiscriminately during ALL months the the year is probably a significant sign that this disease is at least partly engineered by someone.

Cold/Corona viruses don’t usually strike huge numbers of the global population during the summer months.

I’m not a conspiracy theory nutbar but this virus presents some interesting possible theories. Here’s one:

Covid-19 is a test to see what actually happens during a global pandemic. They have a vaccine “created” within months of the virus hitting the general population. I have no idea who has the skills and technology to modify the virus but assuming there are a handful of people out there willing to put it to the test I think they succeeded.

There are people out there who think the world cannot sustain a population of 10 or so billion souls. They may be willing to engineer a new similar virus that could wipe out 90% of the human population on earth. It’s not impossible that this may happen. Many scientists have already concluded that the earth meets it’s end via a meteorite strike or through a virus. In this case I have no doubt in my mind that there are people who would have ZERO problem taking out 90% of humanity if they think it will save the earth.

The culture has a way of creating our reality. No reason to think that some people aren’t planning to destroy humanity some day.

May God help us when that day comes…

#130 Kool Aid on 12.17.20 at 5:29 pm

“All anti-vaxers exaggerate rare side effects and potential personal harm as a way of thwarting herd immunity.”

30,000 take Pfizer vax…. only 4 instances of Bell’s Palsy, remote risk is not no risk, just say’n.

The condition is temporary facial muscle paralysis that occurs naturally in the general population more often than it showed up in the Pfizer group. More anti-vaxer crap. – Garth

#131 Prince Polo on 12.17.20 at 5:30 pm

#62 Nick on 12.17.20 at 3:47 pm
I’m 32…..As for COVID-19 vaccines, I’m skeptical. There has been a lot of societal pressure and financial incentive to rush the development of these. As someone who has a low risk of developing complications from COVID-19, I see no sense in taking the vaccine until it is proven (empirically) to be safe. I will let the high-risk people be the guinea pigs.

As for societal cohesion, I don’t feel much of it, to be honest. I blame excessive immigration and multiculturalism for contributing to the fragmentation of our society. If the government begins forcing people to take the vaccine, I will happily leave. I have options.

If you want young Canadians to be loyal to Canada, stop screwing them over. That is all.

===============================
1) Are tens/hundreds of millions of people enough of an empirical sampling for you? If not, I would propose you visit a statistics textbook.

2) Considering that you state that you have options, it sounds like you are partaking in Canadian society as an immigrant. How ironic.

3) We have yet to see how “screwed over” young Canadians are. Putting things in perspective might help, but if you really think it’s that bad in this country, please feel free to relocate to the other global havens out there, and let somebody else move-up in the vaccine prick line.

#132 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 5:30 pm

#119 Editrix on 12.17.20 at 5:06 pm

Personally, I am up to date on all my vaccinations as are my two autistic children. 

————

Sorry to hear that. Autism is devastating… Hopefully some day soon the cause of autism will be revealed and a cure can be found for those already suffering from it.

All the best to you and your family.

#133 Travelbug on 12.17.20 at 5:31 pm

Coming back to your yesterday’s blog re 10yr mortgages, I have just one question: if I can get out of a 10yr mortgage any time after 5 years and only have to pay a max. 3 months interest penalty for it, can the bank also cancel the mortgage any time after the first 5 years? Our 5yr mortgage will come due for refinancing on July 1 and locking it in for 10 years would definitely make sense.
Thanks for all your advice, Garth, and looking forward to your answer.

#134 Camille on 12.17.20 at 5:33 pm

Very interesting take on the vaccine and its adoption.
Many hospital staff are waiting to take it, instead taking a wail and see approach. I am surprised by this. I would take it.
My belief is the vaccine is safe. So I think its adoption will increase over time, which is a good thing. However, society is paralyzed by fear. A paradox, since taking the vaccine is so preferable to taking risks with the virus.

#135 theoryAndPractice on 12.17.20 at 5:34 pm

I’m not against the vaccines, when they are really tested properly, before it is applied.

… but There is higher Vit-D3 vs. the lower severity of Covid-19 cases association (Vit-D3 is proven not to be dangerous unless you go very nuts on amounts of intake….)

Can anyone tell why this is not applied to most vulnerable population on top of everything before anything, if the research indicates the otherwise?

#136 MCF on 12.17.20 at 5:39 pm

I’m not an antivaxer – but don’t want to be front of the line for the ‘new technology’ vaccines……don’t expect I can be though – more middle of the pack given age and risk from occupation. I think I will try for the ‘old tech’ AstraZeneca vaccine if I have a choice. May not have one though I guess.

For now though, I do not know why we are not sending out this type of information:
https://vitamind4all.org/letter.html

By no means a cure, but can certainly help reduce the harm (notice how low the incidence was in the summer? Due to sunlight and natural vitamin D production I believe).

See below:
https://c19vitamind.com/

Even without the vaccines there are ways to reduce the damage. Wish our health care system recognized this as fewer people would be in the hospital and dying. Other countries are – some are sending out vitamin D to the long term care homes for use pre-exposure and others are given large doses for all positive tests.

Again – NOT a cure, but can reduce the harm significantly at low cost and no risk. Helps get us to full vaccinations with less damage – which is a good thing.

Please advise people you know – it might help them be a lot less sick than they would be otherwise.

Also, if you do get sick, load up on Vitamin C – again NOT a cure, but it is proven to lessen the damage this bug causes – being used in hospitals, but better if you take it as early as possible. Less damage is a better outcome.

Stay safe Turner nation!

Garth love the blog – I need my dose of common sense to keep me grounded

#137 Anonymous on 12.17.20 at 5:43 pm

I thought this was not a virus blog…
I liked it better when it wasn’t.

The tone you write with and certainty you exhibit are exactly what creates the divisions and embolden the anti-vexers.

I’ll wait in line to get my jab, but there is far more nuance to each of the points you made. The inability or reluctance to have a nuanced conversation is what pushes people to pick one extreme view vs. another extreme view, instead of having a nice conversation in the middle.

This is true for any of the societal issues we see these days, be it gender issues, social mobility, taxation, housing policy and now health policy. Why are we introducing these extreme views into a discussion about a health issue?

#138 alf on 12.17.20 at 5:44 pm

Social Contract? I’ll be breaking it thanks. As if it hasn’t already been absolutely smashed to dust over the last couple of decades.
When I get the sense that I am being pressured/bullied by an individual or a group to make a decision in haste, I instantly enter FU mode. I’m a big fella, I’ll deal with the consequences.
I have never seen this much propaganda and censorship from the media in my lifetime. This, to me, is a huge red flag. Trust has been broken and credible science that contradicts the official narrative has been silenced.

I’m gonna kick back for now (maybe the next decade or so) and see what happens to you and your merry band of know it all sycophants.

#139 Prince Hairy on 12.17.20 at 5:45 pm

#120 mattbg on 12.17.20 at 5:09 pm

Great post.

I think it’s normal to have some misgivings about being among the first to take a novel vaccine, but most of the people with concerns aren’t going to be among the first to get it and there should be ample evidence of safety/efficacy by the time most people are in line to get this.

__________________________

Though to Garth’s point, they are still cowards. They need to get to the front of the line, even if it means elbowing the big-balled 90 year old woman.

No country ever won a war by fighting from behind the front lines!

#140 Andrew MacNeil on 12.17.20 at 5:47 pm

Excellent post. The fact that previous generations were forced to vaccinate so that we don’t deal older plagues is monumental. I actually hope that companies in Canada can apply restrictions to employers who don’t get vaccinated. It’s simply not fair for the ones that do. Their ignorance is so incredibly selfish. Interesting to see how it’s legislated. Can an employer terminate a employee for jeopardizing the workplace, regardless of the persons rights. I mean, in the US it may be legal to carry a gun when you leave the house, but you may not enter certain buildings with one (go through security), even it’s you right to own and carry one. That should be the precedent. But terminating employment needs to have an open discussion.

#141 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 5:48 pm

#99 Coho on 12.17.20 at 4:38 pm
Why, because gatherings are discouraged. Separating the people is important to restrict discourse, criticism and dissent.
…..
I don’t know about that. Plenty of discourse and dissent in the echo chambers of the inter webs. Maybe if people were out talking to random people they would realize how silly things like that sound when said out loud.

#142 Mosey on 12.17.20 at 5:52 pm

Thank you for this post, Garth. I forwarded it to my 83 year old mom in Ottawa who is a rabid anti vaxxer. I don’t think she understands what it is going to cost her in societal freedoms she now takes for granted if she chooses (as I am 100% sure she will) not to get the jabs. She does not understand that she puts others at risk every day by not social distancing and not wearing a mask. Which is pretty frightening considering that she is in many other ways an incredibly smart person. Her conversion to the anti vax side is very much a product of her addiction to you tube videos and hundreds of email lists from alternative “doctors” and “healers” over many years. She will not listen to us. I am hoping against hope that this post will somehow get through to her. It is very sad.

#143 George S on 12.17.20 at 5:52 pm

Excellent post today.

It has always been a mystery to me why there are any anti vaccine people at all in existence on earth. They usually are people with maybe an elementary school level of science education and they don’t even comprehend things enough to be able to figure out who to listen to for advice on medical issues.

It doesn’t make any sense to me that they would listen to some has-been movie actor instead of an infectious disease scientist and take their advice.
It also doesn’t make any sense at all to me that people have forgotten the concept of public good where they won’t even wear a mask in public to prevent spreading a deadly disease because some imbecile told them that they would be short of oxygen and further damage their worthless brains. And they will even go out in public and show their faces when they are protesting mask use so that everyone that knows them can realize what a fool they are.

To see where the anti vaccine imbeciles are coming from you just need to look up all the anti-smallpox vaccination propaganda from a hundred or so years ago. They were just as stupid back then, maybe worse. At least the current AVIs try to be a little sciency.

#144 McCarthyism on 12.17.20 at 5:52 pm

#119 Editrix on 12.17.20 at 5:06 pm

Personally, I am up to date on all my vaccinations as are my two autistic children.

♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡

Editrix ……meet Jenny.
Jenny …….meet Editrix.

#145 Gogo on 12.17.20 at 5:54 pm

You wouldn’t drive a car that is not tested, but you call antivaxers, people who would not take a vaccine that is tested ten times faster than normal, made by completely untested technology. Wow.

#146 The Spectre on 12.17.20 at 5:55 pm

Great article Garth.

You provided the answer already: ask for vaccination cards on Tim’s, Starbucks and Costco and 98% of the population wil take it no brainer.

#147 Chutiya Andhbakt on 12.17.20 at 5:59 pm

Question for any Blogdog Doctors: Are we able to safely transplant (use) organs of Covid Infected causalities ?

It would be great if we could do organ harvesting. Maybe there is business angle to it, Big Corporate conspiracy? Nah, not likely. But who knows?

#148 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 6:02 pm

#126 theoryAndPractice on 12.17.20 at 5:34 pm

… but There is higher Vit-D3 vs. the lower severity of Covid-19 cases association (Vit-D3 is proven not to be dangerous unless you go very nuts on amounts of intake….)

Can anyone tell why this is not applied to most vulnerable population on top of everything before anything, if the research indicates the otherwise?

———–

Exactly.

One recent study showed that nearly ALL hospitalized cases also had Vitamin D deficiency.

So, it begs the question, why are not all elderly people given free Vitamin D?

They are ignoring the science. Period.

#149 Spanky on 12.17.20 at 6:10 pm

I’d like to see a statistical breakdown of who actually dies from COVID by age. Haven’t seen one yet. If someone has a link please post it as I can’t find one.

The point that I’ll make is that if the old folks get the vaccine and the death rate gets cut by 90% would we still be willing to lock down the economy?

What # of deaths will we tolerate as a society to re-open the economy. And please don’t say something trite like “One life lost is too many” as it only shows that you are not part of the adult conversation as you don’t have the ability to look at risk/reward equations and make decisions that are the best for all people, not just a select few that you happen to like or agree with.

We tolerate daily deaths from opioids, car accidents and smoking and don’t shut the economy down for any of them.

What is the number? A 20% reduction in deaths? 50%? 75% 90%?

Opioids, car crashes and lung cancer are not infectious. It’s not just about deaths but infections, hospitalizations and heath care collapse. Did you not read the post? – Garth

#150 Linda on 12.17.20 at 6:10 pm

Plan to get the vaccination but since I don’t fall into the priority categories will be lucky to get to the head of the line by mid 2021. Maybe one silver lining re: anti-vax types is that the rest of us won’t have to wait as long to get vaccinated:)

#151 Bishop on 12.17.20 at 6:14 pm

Does the “social contract” include fostering a healthy immune system and optimizing metabolic health, such as by adopting behaviors that reduce or eliminate obesity and diabetes? Maybe getting off the junk food and sugary crap? Or does personal responsibility for fostering reduced prevalence of disease and bad outcomes from Covid 19 only apply to vaccines? Obesity-induced chronic inflammation is not only a determinant of particularly bad outcomes from Covid 19, but also reduced efficacy of vaccines …

#152 Faron on 12.17.20 at 6:16 pm

#147 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 6:02 pm

#126 theoryAndPractice on 12.17.20 at 5:34 pm

They are ignoring the science. Period.

Maybe you should find your local pandemic-harried nurse or doc and bug them about this. Tell them they are ignoring the science. Just see how that works for you. I would gladly bet my life that there is no Vitamin D ignorance or cover up here. If you’ve “seen” the evidence, I am certain that the better trained, medically speaking, have also seen that and any other evidence.

#153 hingadin on 12.17.20 at 6:17 pm

#109 belly rubs on 12.17.20 at 4:53 pm

Brainstorm!!
Because we are all in this together, and we all equally share in the cost, the public debt, and the rewards of this glorious culture called Canada, I propose that any personal income over $100k be confiscated by the CRA and put in the public purse. This could run for five years. This would also lower the cost of housing… probably.

Aside, I found a whack of those bittycoin things I bought way back in the Obama years, thinking they might be collectable one day. Anyone still trade those? I could donate those to the government.

***************

Give the government $ so they can buy more helicopters?

#154 Get vaccinated and go back to work, or else... on 12.17.20 at 6:20 pm

I completely support being vaccinated. One of the reasons that I made it to 65 was the general and widespread adoption of good public health measures and acceptance of the benefits of medical science. My own father suffered from Polio and he carried this affliction all of his life. Who amongst us now gets Polio? It was once very common, as was Tuberculosis.

As to the other issue raised in this blog post, by our esteemed, folically-enhanced host of the many-splendored, ab-solutely coiffed…stuff, the whole question of working from home is going to become a complicated and protracted tug of war between a company’s need to return to what has been a successful, profitable model and its employees who appear more and more to be suffering a fatigue from the demands of the modern workplace.

Working from home is essentially remote work and in case the implication of that escapes anyone, think of how very little the actual distance matters when it comes to being remote; 30 km or 3000 km really makes no difference once all the tools are in place and the ways and means of working away from an office are established. Outsourcing and offshoring round 2.

And while some attempts to outsource have not perhaps been as successful in some cases, consider that the most successful offshoring of jobs formerly done in Canada and the USA are those jobs that have a high degree of automation such as manufacturing. If the current trends to adopt more and more artificial intelligence tools continues, automation in all but name, then the more mundane and routine aspects that might still require human workers will certainly be candidates for offshoring.

#155 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 6:20 pm

#117 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 5:04 pm

Post you non cherry picked studies, let’s take a look.
…….
I assume that this is the study you are referring to:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717

I direct you to the results section. The difference in positive cases between the two groups is because the study group was tested on day 2, 7 and 14, while the control group was only tested on day 14. So some of the control group cases may have been missed if they were positive on day 2 or 7 but not on day 14.

Then look at the conclusion of the authors of the study. Quite different from the link you posted. Because it wasn’t cherry picked to fit a narrative.

#156 Andy on 12.17.20 at 6:30 pm

Scientists have no idea of the long term effects of this vaccine and so neither do you.

The vaccine is not available to pregnant or lactating women, since they have no idea of the effects on, y’know, that reasonably important facet of life.

As someone who has presumably successfully procreated, it’s easy for you to say everyone should take it.

As a person about to start a family, my wife won’t be taking it, and I also won’t (due to anaphylactic food allergies). We plan to wait at least 2-3 years until more peer reviewed data is available to show that it is safe in the longer term. Yes we’re aware that we will be restricted from doing things in the meantime.

Why would you start a family in a pandemic? Oh, because there’s a vaccine that others will take to make a safer world. I see. – Garth

#157 Erick on 12.17.20 at 6:34 pm

Work from home, order everything on amazon, travel by car, etc.
I am all set for being one of the paria – ah ah …

#158 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 6:40 pm

DELETED

#159 Spanky on 12.17.20 at 6:42 pm

Opioids, car crashes and lung cancer are not infectious. It’s not just about deaths but infections, hospitalizations and heath care collapse. Did you not read the post? – Garth

=======

Not on point comment.

Fewer deaths also precludes fewer hospitalizations and health care collapse. Again, what is the number that our society will tolerate?

#160 S.Bby on 12.17.20 at 6:44 pm

Coca-Cola laying off 2,200 workers as it pares brands:

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/12/17/coca-cola-laying-off-2200-workers-as-it-pares-brands/

The coronavirus pandemic has hammered Coke’s business, as sales at places like stadiums and movie theatres dried up due to lockdowns. Its revenue fell 9% to $8.7 billion in the July-September period.

#161 B on 12.17.20 at 6:47 pm

Well said Garth. I often think of the sacrifices made by those before me, and wonder what it will take for folks these days to think beyond themselves and make similar sacrifices. I guess the best we can all do is try to set an example and make doing the right thing the social norm!

#162 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 6:49 pm

#100 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 4:39 pm
So the strictest mitigation efforts have ZERO if not NEGATIVE effects of controlling covid.

As I pointed out above, this is absolutely NOT what the study showed. Both groups took the same measures. If you wanted to see if the measures themselves were effective, you’d have to compare to a group that used no measures, or more lax measures (like a college dorm).

No scientist has ever said that handwashing, social distancing and mask wearing would eliminate the spread of the virus, only that those measures would reduce the spread.

Get your info from the study itself, not from someone else’s interpretation. That, and learning how to analyze if the study itself is a good quality study is the only way you can be sure you’re not being manipulated to someone’s agenda.

#163 Penny Henny on 12.17.20 at 6:49 pm

#80 sheeple on 12.17.20 at 4:09 pm
All the comments here suggest the vaccine will protect you. They never said that! They only claim it may lessen your effects when you do get it. What am I missing here?

Fewer sick people. No health care crisis. People get their cancer and cardiac surgery. Can you not read? – Garth
///////////////

Are we forgetting that most of the people requiring hospital care are old, if they take the vaccine it will eliminate this issue. No?

#164 joe on 12.17.20 at 6:54 pm

DELETED

#165 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 6:58 pm

#151 Faron on 12.17.20 at 6:16 pm

#147 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 6:02 pm

#126 theoryAndPractice on 12.17.20 at 5:34 pm

They are ignoring the science. Period.

Maybe you should find your local pandemic-harried nurse or doc and bug them about this. Tell them they are ignoring the science. Just see how that works for you. I would gladly bet my life that there is no Vitamin D ignorance or cover up here. If you’ve “seen” the evidence, I am certain that the better trained, medically speaking, have also seen that and any other evidence.

————–

Then how can you explain their lack of a simple action such as administering vitamin D (harmless and cheap) to vulnerable populations in the face of the following evidence?

More than 80 per cent of hospitalized COVID-19 patients had vitamin D deficiency: study
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/health/2020/10/27/1_5162396.html

#166 Penny Henny on 12.17.20 at 6:59 pm

#91 baloney Sandwitch on 12.17.20 at 4:24 pm
One very small good thing to come from this is that the anti-vaxxers will be mostly gone and buried, like people against the wheel or fire.
////////////

Ha, ha. The joke’s on you. We refuse to die!

#167 Hilroy on 12.17.20 at 6:59 pm

That same antivaxer will wear a head net and deet when they go fishing to prevent a mosquito borne virus, but not a mask to prevent an aerosol virus. #makesnosense

#168 Smarty pants on 12.17.20 at 7:00 pm

#142 Mosey on 12.17.20 at 5:52 pm

Thank you for this post, Garth. I forwarded it to my 83 year old mom in Ottawa who is a rabid anti vaxxer. I don’t think she understands what it is going to cost her in societal freedoms she now takes for granted if she chooses (as I am 100% sure she will) not to get the jabs. She does not understand that she puts others at risk every day by not social distancing and not wearing a mask. Which is pretty frightening considering that she is in many other ways an incredibly smart person. Her conversion to the anti vax side is very much a product of her addiction to you tube videos and hundreds of email lists from alternative “doctors” and “healers” over many years. She will not listen to us. I am hoping against hope that this post will somehow get through to her. It is very sad.

——————-

Garth, let me take a moment out of my hectic day to paraphrase what Mosey is trying to say in his undeniable awkward way …

My mom is an incredibly smart person, you could say, a genius. After all, she brought me into this world and raised me to be the fine, upstanding social justice warrior that I am today!

However, when it comes to things beyond my mental capacity, like vaccines, or perhaps to perspectives that i dont agree with, my mother reverts to being an old person that doesn’t quite understand anything. She’s not really capable of making her own decisions because of all those darn videos she watches, unlike me who reads this pathetic blog exclusively. Hoping one day she’ll be as smart as me but time is running out! Please agree with me Garth. I need your comforting approval since my mom won’t provide it.

Let me know if that pretty well sums things up!

#169 Axehead on 12.17.20 at 7:00 pm

An error and an assumption in this blog:

Not everyone in the 50’s got vaccinated and those that did not were still allowed to go to school.

Cowardice is not the only reason people refuse vaccination, many do not simply because of lack of trust.

Mandatory in my hood. And yes, it is cowardly to not submit. – Garth

#170 WFS (Work from Shed) on 12.17.20 at 7:02 pm

“But they haven’t worked thus far.”

Not sure if that is a fair statement – what if we hadn’t done any of that….

#171 Keen Reader on 12.17.20 at 7:04 pm

Having recently worked many months in Africa and Asia, my vaccine booklet is likely fuller than most. Still, I’ve done enough research to question the risk-reward ratio for COVID vaccines, given a dearth of immunity data. Short-term side effects aren’t a big concern, and I fully know that herd immunity and avoiding the healthcare burden are desirable. As an international pilot, I accept being eventually mandated to take the shot. If not, waiting is prudent, having repeatedly learned it’s better to “never be first, and never be last”. Labelling others and arguing the extremes isn’t helpful. Hopefully this new attempt at providing a balanced view won’t get me deleted again…

#172 Howard on 12.17.20 at 7:04 pm

DELETED

#173 Wrk.dover on 12.17.20 at 7:08 pm

As with vaxes, I also like antibiotics.

Still alive and well….

67 years

#174 Andy on 12.17.20 at 7:10 pm

“Why would you start a family in a pandemic? Oh, because there’s a vaccine that others will take to make a safer world. I see. – Garth”

Because life goes on. People have continued to have babies in far worse scenarios than this, thankfully.

Besides, you didn’t address the point around unknown long term effects. Ignoring ‘the science’ is often leveled at anti-vaxxers. Is that not exactly what you’re doing here? Because science says pregnant and lactating women can’t take it. Scientists literally have no idea of the effects.

They also have minimal data on the vaccine’s effects on fertility. Kinda big risk don’t you think?

I mean it’ll *probably* be OK, but who knows? You don’t.

This is a brand new type of vaccine. Completely different delivery method. So we can’t extrapolate any type of safety data from preceeding vaccines.

As I said, easy for you to say everyone should take it. If I were over 60, with not much to lose personally, I would as well. However I’m not sure I’d be quite as confident as you in recommending it to pre-birth women.

#175 Out Of Work CEO, Will Travel on 12.17.20 at 7:15 pm

My focus is finding out when and where I can get the vaccine. The big problem in Canada that we are discovering day by day is that we are in a fog as to when or if we are going to get delivery of the vaccine. It seems the promised vacine is somewhere and at some future date we might get access.

#176 Paul on 12.17.20 at 7:15 pm

#96 Jake on 12.17.20 at 4:32 pm

Give Trump and all the anti vaxxers their wish and build a wall between them and the rest of society. Let’s see how well their herd immunity does. We know the answer, just look at Sweden.
————————————————————————————————

“The Financial Times” says President Donald Trump’s Operation Warp Speed is responsible for the coronavirus vaccines becoming available so soon.

Hey try and keep up. it was Trump that ordered the vaccine and appropriated the funding to pay regardless if it was never approved by the F.D.A. He took the risk that’s why it is being rolled out now. We should as Canadians count ourselves lucky we have a good neighbor. but no Orange man bad.

#177 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 7:16 pm

If the vax turns out to be dangerous we’ll know before most people get a chance to take it. So the right thing to do right now is proceed with the vaccinations and keep an eye on things.

#178 Long-Time Lurker on 12.17.20 at 7:18 pm

>Beware of the Zoolander. Conspiracy theory #1.

SIMS: The carbon tax is unaffordable
Kris Sims
Dec 14, 2020

Canadians can’t afford to pay an extra $27 each time they fill up their minivans, but that’s what it will soon cost as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau jacks up his carbon tax.

The feds made the announcement Friday that they will hike the federal carbon tax to $170 per tonne by the year 2030.

What would that mean for everyday household budgets across Canada?

Right now, the federal carbon tax is at $30 per tonne, resulting in a tax of 6.6 cents per litre for gasoline and 8 cents per litre for diesel.

Natural gas carries a federal carbon tax of 5.8 cents per cubic metre.

At those rates, filling up a minivan costs nearly $5 extra in the carbon tax, filling a light duty pickup truck costs $8 more and a super duty diesel pickup costs $14 more…

…So, now that the feds are going to increase the carbon tax to $170 per tonne, what happens to these everyday costs?

Buckle up.

This hike will put the carbon tax up to more than 37.5 cents per litre for gasoline, 45 cents per litre for diesel and 32.8 cents per cubic metre for natural gas.

That means that very soon it will cost you $27 extra to fill up a minivan, $45 extra for a light duty pickup truck and $204 extra to fill just one diesel fuel cylinder on those big rig trucks that deliver everything from furniture to food across the country.

Remember: this is just for the carbon tax. This doesn’t include the cost of the fuel, other taxes, the GST or the incoming second carbon tax that Trudeau’s government is creating.

How many people have an easy extra $45 to fill up their trucks to go to work?

What about heating our homes?

With a carbon tax of 32.8 cents per cubic metre of natural gas, it would cost that homeowner in Gibsons $150 extra in the carbon tax for just one winter month’s worth of natural gas. Based on the average annual use of natural gas in new Canadian homes, it would cost homeowners more than $885 extra in the carbon tax….

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/sims-the-carbon-tax-is-unaffordable

#179 Long-Time Lurker on 12.17.20 at 7:19 pm

>Conspiracy theory #2.

Pfizer CEO reveals why he hasn’t taken Covid-19 vaccine yet

Bourla added that an ‘ethical committee’ recommends him to get vaccinated first as people will have more “faith in the vaccine candidate if the CEO gets it”

DH Web Desk, DEC 17 2020, 11:43 …

https://www.deccanherald.com/business/pfizer-ceo-reveals-why-he-hasnt-taken-covid-19-vaccine-yet-928279.html

#180 Long-Time Lurker on 12.17.20 at 7:20 pm

>Conspiracy theory #3.

Hypocrites! The American Medical Association Is Very Quietly Trying To Change Their Position On Hydroxychloroquine To Treat COVID-19

The American Medical Association is very quietly trying to change its position over the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus patients.

In March the American Medical Association came out against the use of hydroxychloroquine after President Trump touted its use to treat the Wuhan virus. The media, Dr. Fauci, and liberal medical journals went nuts and did everything to dissuade Americans from seeking treatment.

“We caution hospitals, health systems, other entities, and individual practitioners that no medication has been FDA-approved for use in COVID-19 patients,” the AMA’s March statement reads in regards to HCQ and similar unconventional treatments. “Definitive evidence for the role of these drugs in treating COVID-19 patients has not been determined through robust clinical trials; decisions to use these medications off-label must be made with extreme caution and careful monitoring. Physicians, pharmacists, patients and policymakers must understand that these medications have dangerous side effects that may lead to patient harm, including fatal cardiac arrhythmias.”

This month the AMA discussed considering a resolution to reverse their stance on HCQ because the potential for good may supersede the threat of any potentially harmful side effects.

RESOLVED, THAT OUR AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION RESCIND ITS STATEMENT CALLING FOR PHYSICIANS TO STOP PRESCRIBING HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE AND CHLOROQUINE UNTIL SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE BECOMES AVAILABLE TO CONCLUSIVELY ILLUSTRATE THAT THE HARM ASSOCIATED WITH USE OUTWEIGHS BENEFIT EARLY IN THE DISEASE COURSE,” THE MEMO READS….

https://sipoftea.blog/hypocrites-the-american-medical-association-is-very-quietly-trying-to-change-their-position-on-hydroxychloroquine-to-treat-covid-19/

#181 the Jaguar on 12.17.20 at 7:20 pm

I’d be disingenuous if I didn’t say I liked Ponzi’s touching little post. ( #102 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 4:43 pm). I thought is was ‘gemütlich’ and it made me want to dive immediately into zie ‘Schnapps’. Meine schoene Heimat. My sweet home.

I also appreciated the complete transparency of Nick’s comments -#62 Nick on 12.17.20 at 3:47 pm: “”I’m 32. My company is planning on bringing people back to the office next year…and I’m planning on quitting. I’ve had a taste of freedom and I’m not going back. Smart companies will capitalize on people like me. If you want young Canadians to be loyal to Canada, stop screwing them over. That is all.”

It supports my theory of incompatibility. Garth reports “Surveys show half the WFHers want to stay in their sweats, shun the commute, live in the burbs and never return to full-time office work.” Of course they don’t. They’ve never been raised with the idea that life presents great challenges, turns us ass over tea kettle when least expected, and owes us no favours. Failed parenting, desire for instant gratification, etc. It’s all been written about ad nauseam. But perhaps they have over estimated their value.

Recent comments by the head of Shell Oil regarding a recent wave of resignations that have come just weeks before Shell is set to announce its strategy for the energy transition are a clue.
Some executives have pushed for a more aggressive shift from oil but top management is more inclined to stick closer to the company’s current path·
Ben van Beurden ( The Big Cheese at Shell ) told the Financial Times last year his “single biggest” regret would be retreating from the oil business prematurely. No shit Sherlock.

I see this reluctance to get the jab as an advantage for ‘Team Boomer”. Once they get through vaxing the most at risk, the first responders and medical people, and the guy who stocks shelves at my grocery store so I can buy those outrageously priced heads of cauliflower, I might be able to get in line ahead of the Nicksters. Once I’ve got the jab my caboose is on the loose! ( sorry LP ).

#182 Katherine on 12.17.20 at 7:21 pm

#155 Andy

I totally understand your wife not taking vaccine as you are trying to start a family. As for Garth’s disparaging remark to you, I understand. My daughter had tried for many years to have a baby. No reason determined for infertility. Many months of IVF treatments and four years later, I have a beautiful grandson. She will be moving forward with another IVF baby as she isn’t getting any younger and the odds of a live birth drastically decrease after age 35 (she’s 34).
I am in total agreement that everyone should be getting the vaccine and I will give my arm as soon as I am offered it.
Good luck with the baby making Andy.

#183 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 7:23 pm

#162 Penny Henny on 12.17.20 at 6:49 pm
#80 sheeple on 12.17.20 at 4:09 pm
All the comments here suggest the vaccine will protect you. They never said that! They only claim it may lessen your effects when you do get it. What am I missing here?

Fewer sick people. No health care crisis. People get their cancer and cardiac surgery. Can you not read? – Garth
///////////////

Are we forgetting that most of the people requiring hospital care are old, if they take the vaccine it will eliminate this issue. No?
——————-
Agree, once the most vulnerable in the care homes are vaccinated , we should see a sharp decline in deaths.
And the people can again see their “beloved” parents , that they so conveniently shoved away.

#184 mike from corbeil on 12.17.20 at 7:25 pm

While most seem to be cheering on todays post, I found it
very divisive and condescending.

#185 Kevin BC on 12.17.20 at 7:25 pm

Great post, Garth, thank you. I’m a moist mill, but even I realize that we are such an entitled and selfish society now, with little sense of duty and self-sacrifice. I loved this point:

“In the 1950s all we little snots had to line up and be vaccinated at school. No exceptions. No jab, no education. And today there is essentially no measles, mumps, chickenpox or polio for your children to worry about or sicken from. We did that for you. Now it’s your turn, so Covid is gone for future generations.”

#186 Garth's Son Drake on 12.17.20 at 7:29 pm

Why not embrace the employment change Garth? It is not about people want it is about what is most efficient, and finally employers are starting to get it. It is not about checking to make sure someone didn’t leave a minute early, committing time theft, showing up late and getting reprimanded. Give me a break. All that matters is what you accomplish and if it is in line with deadlines. Period.

They just ain’t telling you that once they smooth this change out that you are being replaced by someone in a cheaper jurisdiction prior to being fully replaced by AI.
What business do you know that does not evolve and change? If Amazon stood still, they would be obsolete in 10 years.

So you mention – it is not all about “you” ………..what do people care about most? Themselves. Goodluck changing that.

Anti-vaxers can relax knowing that it is not mandatory, yet won’t be employable and/or able to board flight or walk into a store. But remember it is not mandatory by the gov.

Supply chains speak to the fact we are going two quarters in 2021 before seeing some progress from any vaccine. So, the first half of the 2021 will be pretty much the same as 2020. Peak numbers probably around Spring Break time.

They still need to develop better rapid testing and/or treatment that takes it out for anyone who catches and it needs to be available everywhere.

#187 Mother Nature on 12.17.20 at 7:30 pm

You think we can outsmart mother nature?

Coronavirus has already mutated an estimated 25 times, who knows if the vaccine made for the initial strand even works now and how effective it is? It’s why we haven’t been able to develop a coronavirus vaccine – ever!

>
There are two notable sets of mutation – and I apologise for their hideous names.

Both are found in the crucial spike protein, which is the key the virus uses to unlock the doorway into our body’s cells in order to hijack them.

The mutation N501 (I did warn you) alters the most important part of the spike, known as the “receptor-binding domain”.

This is where the spike makes first contact with the surface of our body’s cells. Any changes that make it easier for the virus to get inside are likely to give it an edge.

“It looks and smells like an important adaptation,” said Prof Loman.

The other mutation – a H69/V70 deletion – has emerged several times before, including famously in infected mink.

The concern was that antibodies from the blood of survivors was less effective at attacking that variant of virus.

This is a virus that evolved in animals and made the jump to infecting people around a year ago.

Since then it has been picking up around two mutations a month – take a sample today and compare it to the first ones from Wuhan in China and there would be around 25 mutations separating them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55312505

#188 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 7:36 pm

#163 the Jaguar on 12.17.20 at 7:20 pm
I’d be disingenuous if I didn’t say I liked Ponzi’s touching little post. I thought is was ‘gemütlich’ and it made me want to dive immediately into zie ‘Schnapps’. Meine schoene Heimat. My sweet home.
———–
And as you probably know, Heimat does not easily translate. Home just does not do it.
Same goes for Heimweh and homesick.

#189 Full-socialism-coming on 12.17.20 at 7:37 pm

#118 leaders no longer lead but people still vote them in…

People or dominion?

#190 JRinVic on 12.17.20 at 7:37 pm

A lot to chew on in this post. Hopefully I can keep the comment under 2 screens!

Yes, all the non pharmaceutical interventions have not worked. Anywhere. The science has dictated this in the past yet our fearful leaders and health officials continue to go to the same well hoping for different results. Cancel this, cancel that, dont go here or there to no avail. It’s well past time to acknowledge that these things don’t work. Stay home when you’re sick is the best you can do. There’s too many ‘essential’ people moving around to just treat everyone like they’re sick and lock things down, the effects are disastrous as we can see throughout society – more domestic violence, mental health issues, alcoholism, and the list goes on and on.

It’s about time we wake up and start to realize that the problem lies in the useless people we elect to run things. We need to start voting in real leaders and real professionals who have some idea of right and wrong and not some entitled drama teacher or health officials who finished bottom of their class (I realize we don’t elect those ones).
We have thrown 400 BILLION at a virus and have nothing to show for it. Imagine we had put that against healthcare for more resources and capacity across the nation. Sure we’d still have 400 billion spent but at least we’d have infrastructure to show for it that can be utilized to help fight a virus instead of money, which fights nothing.
Let’s also note the virus hasn’t defeated us or done anything to our economy, our fearful leaders did that to us in the response to this virus. They are the ones who created these problems, scared the crap out of the population, screwed us going forward and left a mess in their wake.

As for the US, Garth, the comparison to deaths/day over time to a 1 day tragic event is not useful. According to the CDC, on average, 7700 people die per day in the US every year. That’s roughly 2 9/11’s if you wish, daily. Half of those from cardiac events and cancers. Why do we not shut down every fast food restaurant since we know bad diets contribute heavily to these deaths?
What we need to know, and I have said it before, is the best metric when tracking these deaths is EXCESS MORTALITY. If 3k die per day from or with covid does that make the daily total over the year 10k or still roughly 7700k? It makes a big difference. A stat like 3k a day sounds scary until its put in context. The same with the silly metric of cases, which mean nothing as the majority are not clinical infections!
Also remember, at least here in BC, the death rate in care homes, where 80% of deaths have happened from covid, remains unchained year over year.
This doesn’t mean we do nothing but its perspective and better info to understand what we should be doing. Sure the majority of cases are under 40 but if you looked at flu reports, influenza infects mostly in the age group of 19-49 as well. That’s usually how this goes, healthy people get it, fight it off and build up some immunity (along with a vaccine) to help our vulnerable. Not sure why the response changed for this coronavirus, which we know of a bunch, to now isolate everyone, healthy or not.

These are all tragic deaths and I intend not to downplay any of it, my issue is more how most western nations have handled the response which has been fumbled so badly over and over again.

As for vaccination, I agree, that this is more to blunt the disease, similar to the flu vaccine people get yearly. I suspect this virus becomes an endemic and we will have a yearly jab to help lessen the burden and ill effects somewhat but never eradicate.
There are a handful of countries that require people to be vaccinated against some major diseases and think this is a good way to go. I think the big reason antivaxxers even exist is they have no clue how bad polio or some of these diseases are. Look em up, they’re brutal. Sure covid isn’t one of them, but neither is the flu, but I get that vaccine just cause it helps when you do get it. I hate getting sick so why not. Plus it helps others as well who possibly can’t get it due to a medical reaction.

Again, as I posted before, vaccine development speed is not fully based on time to test safety. It’s time spent waiting.. for grant money, funding, trial participants, etc. This time around we’ve condensed all that down because of all the money and resources thrown at it.

The biggest issue this year was never covid. While it caused a lot of issues (mainly due to our terrible response and measures implemented) the biggest problems I see have to do with the people leading and running the show as well as the media. They seen to have forgotten their duties to the people and instead have made it about themselves to the detriment of the rest of us. If we can’t somehow fix or patch that, it’s just going to be more of the same in the next handful of years when the next ‘crisis’ comes around..

#191 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 7:38 pm

#154 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 6:20 pm

#117 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 5:04 pm

Post you non cherry picked studies, let’s take a look.
…….
I assume that this is the study you are referring to:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717

I direct you to the results section. The difference in positive cases between the two groups is because the study group was tested on day 2, 7 and 14, while the control group was only tested on day 14. So some of the control group cases may have been missed if they were positive on day 2 or 7 but not on day 14.

Wrong. The number referred to was for the day 14 test only, and they are not cumulative.

————-

As I pointed out above, this is absolutely NOT what the study showed. Both groups took the same measures. If you wanted to see if the measures themselves were effective, you’d have to compare to a group that used no measures, or more lax measures (like a college dorm).
———–

Wrong again. Both groups did NOT take the same measures; members of the study group had any positive cases REMOVED and isolated from the group, which did not happen with the other group.

#192 Dogman01 on 12.17.20 at 7:41 pm

Vietnam; Life expectancy
1930 ; age 22.5
1960; age 42.6
2000; age 69.4

Western medical science and public health measures.

It is hard to question that success.

#193 espressobob on 12.17.20 at 7:43 pm

I remember back in the sixties standing in line in the gymnasium waiting for something none of us understood? The inoculation back then was delivered by a device that resembles a 357 magnum. This was non negotiable and quite painfull. Polio,small pox or something along those lines…

Damn thing left a circular scar on ones shoulder some possess today.

Ouch.

Anti vaxxers back in my day would take the pain for the benefit of others whether they liked it or not!

Today they should grow up.

#194 Dummies on 12.17.20 at 7:49 pm

Many here still saying I’ll take the vaccine and then I’m good, will be on my way, etc. etc….. what part of “the vacinne will not protect you from getting covid” do people not understand?

What part of “this is to lessen disease and help sustain the health care system to the benefit of us all” do you not understand? – Garth

#195 Thomas on 12.17.20 at 7:50 pm

DELETED

#196 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 7:53 pm

All else equal, you would expect a higher positivity % on day 14 for the group where tests on day 2 and 7 were ommitted than from the group that had positive cases isolated – and thus not allowed to transmit the virus to the rest of the group .

This did not happen and further reinforces other data and studies that show once the virus has taken hold in a population, mitigation has little to no effect.

#197 Bunker Dweller on 12.17.20 at 7:56 pm

Garth,

You say that vaccine side-effects are rare. On what basis are you making this claim?

3 month research, with a small human sample, no animal testing, new mRNA technology that involves genetic editing, which was by the way illegal in 2019…

If not for so ‘called anti-vaxxers’ we would still have mercury (thimerosol) in majority of our vaccines… and only after people started to rebel they removed it from children’s vaccines…

Pfizer phase 3 trials = 44,000 people. Seems like enough. – Garth

#198 KLNR on 12.17.20 at 7:58 pm

@#95 Howard on 12.17.20 at 4:28 pm
#62 Nick on 12.17.20 at 3:47 pm
I’m 32. My company is planning on bringing people back to the office next year…and I’m planning on quitting. I’ve had a taste of freedom and I’m not going back. Smart companies will capitalize on people like me.

As for COVID-19 vaccines, I’m skeptical. There has been a lot of societal pressure and financial incentive to rush the development of these. As someone who has a low risk of developing complications from COVID-19, I see no sense in taking the vaccine until it is proven (empirically) to be safe. I will let the high-risk people be the guinea pigs.

As for societal cohesion, I don’t feel much of it, to be honest. I blame excessive immigration and multiculturalism for contributing to the fragmentation of our society. If the government begins forcing people to take the vaccine, I will happily leave. I have options.

If you want young Canadians to be loyal to Canada, stop screwing them over. That is all.

———————————–

Good post. Agree with it all.

As far as leaving, if you’re unable to secure a job abroad from Canada, or don’t work for a multinational willing to transfer you, you might wish to consider a Working Holiday Visa program. Canada has such agreements with many countries. For some you must be under 30, which would obviously make you ineligible, but for others the cutoff is 35. Good stepping stone to emigration.

Canada is no country for young people unless their parents are rich. And even then, if you’re born into wealth and can therefore go anywhere with little financial risk, why on earth would you stay in Canada?

Man you’re bitter. What happened?

#199 Tom on 12.17.20 at 8:11 pm

GREAT POST! (other than our company is reducing our footprint and WFH will become much more common than it already is – and I would quit if I had to return 100% – but I’m close to FI)

#200 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 8:14 pm

#191 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 7:38 pm
Wrong. The number referred to was for the day 14 test only, and they are not cumulative.
………
Wrong.
Study group 0.6% positive on day 14, control 1.7% positive day 14, as you would expect if positive cases were isolated in the study group.

#201 Piet on 12.17.20 at 8:15 pm

#163 Wrk.dover on 12.17.20 at 7:08 pm
“As with vaxes, I also like antibiotics.”

Your beneficial gut flora don’t like antibiotics. Save the big guns for life-threatening infections only. Don’t contribute to the evolution of antibiotic resistant microbes.

#202 Doug in London on 12.17.20 at 8:16 pm

So a lot of those employees in the WFH crowd want to keep working from home? That fact shoots a lot of holes in this wrong idea that these work from homers are lonely. I rather think they see it not as loneliness but rather blissful solitude.

So here we are going on about whether or not to get the vaccine. I figure, in the little known much less understood place we call the real world I’ll be EXTREMELY LUCKY if I get offered the vaccine by Easter. Probably more like St. Jean Baptise Day or Canada Day. So when it’s offered I’ll recall words from the song Pretty Fly by The Offspring and say:
Give it to me baby, uh huh, uh huh,
Give it to me baby, uh huh, uh huh,

Bring it on!

#203 Mission Implausible on 12.17.20 at 8:20 pm

#111 devore on 12.17.20 at 4:57 pm

Tom Cruise went on a rant yesterday about following rules at work, and got mostly roasted for it. But his point was the same. It’s not about you. There are people who depend on you doing your thing and followong the rules, even if you don’t like them. Because that’s the social contract. That’s how society stays civil and orderly.

________________________________

BEYOND BELIEF that you would make reference to that situation to further your cause. Tom Cruise cares about one thing … Tom Cruise. Just ask his three wives.

He is the epitome of the social justice warrior…. calling others out under the pretense of some current social cause, be it racism, climate or COVID. Of course he doesn’t want the film shoot to close down; he needs those MFS to do their pathetic $30hr jobs in order to rake in his millions. Especially since he has personally invested in that movie and is a producer.

Perhaps you didn’t realize that the next Mission Impossible movie is “essential”. How could we live without it? That is why he is putting lives at risk….for the greater good!

♡ Garth, when are you going to start compensating me financially for the wealth of knowledge and insight that I contribute to this pathetic blog. But please, no preferred shares … something of value instead!

#204 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 8:23 pm

#30 Faron on 12.17.20 at 2:25 pm
#103 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 2:42 am

“Why are you and others so bitter about renewables? Comes across as being invested in its destruction.”

I am not against renewables per se, but the hype. They don’t scale to the level necessary and they require all the existing infrastructure to be on standby for when the sun doesn’t shine or the wind doesn’t blow, or as they proved in California for days where the wind blows to much, which is terribly redundant (although it does reduce CO2 emissions).

Most people who go big with solar on their roof are not self sufficient. They sell power to the grid during the day and then suck it right back out again at night. This further complicates the balancing problem the utilities already have and forces them to act as a sort of “battery service” for solar owners. There is only so much of that they can do and it costs them money to have all those generators idle during the day. The problem isn’t too bad right now but if you try and envision as much as 50% of the power coming from solar the problem will be nearly unmanageable. It isn’t doable unless everyone gets a matching battery bank, which is expensive and only lasts 10 years. (Think Tesla’s “Power Wall”.) And you still need to be tied to the grid because there is no way your panels are going to get you through a Canadian winter. The power production drops through the floor for 5 months of the year.

Wind “turbines” (why we can’t call them “windmills” I don’t understand, everyone knows what you are taking about) are better because the wind blows all year, but it is still intermittent and depends largely on wind speed. When the wind speed is zero they produce zero. They cut in at about 7 mph but produce very little. It ramps up to about 30 mph when the “turbine” will be at full power until about 50 mph. They manage this part of the curve by rotating the blades out of the wind so as not to overload the generator (technically an alternator but that is what everyone calls them). During high wind events (above 50 mph sustained) they can’t rotate the blades no more and they have to shut the thing down or the generator will overload. This is what happened in California. Well, it happens everywhere but California gets so much electricity from wind it caused brownouts.

So what we can see once we look at the intermittent nature of the resource is that it is incompatible with our 24/7 expectations of reliable power without massive investment in batteries and also massive over-building of the infrastructure. (Both solar and wind operate at about 30% load factor, so you need 3 times as many wind “turbines” as you have load, and a large battery to store the power from the good days for use in the bad.)

Thus, it isn’t as simple as it seems. Solar and wind as they are currently deployed are heavily dependent on the existing infrastructure to load balance, which means it has to stay, be maintained, and be paid for. When they come up with “magic batteries” that are cheap and long lasting maybe this will change. But don’t hold your breath.

A far better solution in my opinion would be to invest in Gen IV nuclear, preferably Thorium based. The problem with a nuclear reactor is that it likes to run at 100% capacity rather than 30%, but it is easier to shunt excess generation than to store it. They could use it to distil water or heat greenhouses perhaps. Or smart charge electric cars when the other demands are low.

Then there are other problems when say converting to all electric transportation (besides range and recharge times). They are still going to need the oil to make jet fuel and other products. But not all the components in the oil can be turned into kerosene, so you get a lot of gasoline out of the distiller. What are we to do with it? In the early days of the oil industry before Rockefeller convinced Ford to make his new Model T run on gasoline instead of alcohol they flared it or poured it in the river. Then there are all the other oil products that come out of the barrel that we need that are not gasoline. Everything from the tar that they use to shingle your house and build your roads to lubricants, plastics, chemicals, and pharmaceuticals.

Economies are self optimizing systems. To the extent there is a place for wind “turbines” in the energy mix, it is best if the government stays out of it or they will screw everything up.

And I haven’t even finished! But it is a complicated subject. The wind “turbine” blades are made from carbon fibre, so they are themselves an oil product requiring a certain amount of gasoline to be produced as a by-product. And they cannot be recycled, so when they wear out (which they do) they go to the landfill.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, and solar and wind are not one either.

But my main beef of course is carbon taxes. I do not believe it is revenue neutral, no other tax is. And the people cannot afford it. Most people have no idea that their food is 90% oil and gas inputs and only 10% from the sun. That farmer’s tractor doesn’t fuel itself. Then there is processing, transportation, fertilizer, irrigation, cooking, etc. So that tomato you wanted to buy at co-op is going up by the same amount as your heating bill and what it costs to fill you tank. There is no escape. It is a “tax on everything”, which is why I keep arguing it would have been easier to double the HST. The rest is just spin, or as I like to call it “greenwashing”.

That was long even for me. Sorry.

#205 henry on 12.17.20 at 8:25 pm

covid science , environmental movement science, abortion science, evolution science… is all the same science:
called “Science Fiction”

And Trump won, right? – Garth

#206 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 8:25 pm

#199 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 8:14 pm

#191 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 7:38 pm
Wrong. The number referred to was for the day 14 test only, and they are not cumulative.
………
Wrong.
Study group 0.6% positive on day 14, control 1.7% positive day 14, as you would expect if positive cases were isolated in the study group.

———

Wrong yet again.

Positivity rate for study group on day 14 2.8%, positivity rate for control group, 1.7%

https://www.aier.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Screen-Shot-2020-11-13-at-10.16.32-AM-1200×691.png

The exact opposite of what you would expect.

#207 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 8:26 pm

#178 Long-Time Lurker on 12.17.20 at 7:18 pm

Exactly.

#208 Steerage science on 12.17.20 at 8:26 pm

#196 Bunker Dweller on 12.17.20 at 7:56 pm
Garth,

You say that vaccine side-effects are rare. On what basis are you making this claim?

3 month research, with a small human sample, no animal testing, new mRNA technology that involves genetic editing, which was by the way illegal in 2019……

Scientific illiteracy at its worse… you have no idea what you are talking about….pure bunk.

#209 Kate on 12.17.20 at 8:29 pm

Vaccines have been one of the greatest medical innovations in human history. Like all medical procedures or drugs not without some (small) risk as you explain well. I think some additional people may be hesitant now as some Covid vaccines are the new generation mRNA vaccine (already mentioned here). And not like like the classic vaccines you mentioned. More and more recovered Covid people have persisting lung and heart damage so hopefully people see the benefits of vaccinating even with more vaccine risk.

#210 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 8:30 pm

I stand corrected, the number is cumulative.

#211 Dog Breath on 12.17.20 at 8:30 pm

DELETED

#212 Drill Baby Drill on 12.17.20 at 8:34 pm

My wife cousin who is 68 his family did not get the polio vaccine when it was offered in the 50’s. To this day he still walks with a serious limp.

#213 Sara on 12.17.20 at 8:40 pm

To those who think that COVID-19 is an issue only for old or immunocompromised people, or who don’t want to get vaccinated for whatever reason, keep in mind that an over-burdened or collapsed health care system is an issue for EVERYONE – young and old. Take the vaccine to help stop the spread and ensure that our hospitals and health care system will be there for you and your loved ones when you need it.

#214 SOS on 12.17.20 at 8:43 pm

I don’t believe the measures are warranted. I don’t believe I need a Covid vaccine any more than I need a flu shot. I’m not riding on the backs of anyone who gets a Covid vaccine because I don’t care whether or not they choose to get one/several. The only argument I hear Garth making is that the only way to make the government stop destroying our country is to take a vaccine, regardless of the efficacy of the vaccine. I’m not interested, although I might get one under duress. I don’t appreciate what’s been done to our citizens. In fact I resent it. They have taken too much. They took too much the first month let alone anytime thereafter.

The problem is mass hysteria. The numbers (deaths, case counts) are nonsense, at least until a government official swears under oath that all Covid deaths were caused by Covid, there have been no false positives, other countries are reporting accurately, everyone who was treated in hospital for Covid needed to be in the hospital, etc. If you feel you are at risk, stay home. Stop dragging everyone else down with you. And as for the healthcare system getting overwhelmed, which they were allegedly worried about from day one, all of the wasted money and resources should have been spent on improving our healthcare system. Can I be treated for Covid in the unlikely event I get severe symptoms after declining a vaccine? Yes, just like I can get treated for a severe flu even if I don’t get a flu shot. That’s the healthcare system I am forced to pay for, even though I’m not prone to utilizing our hospitals and healthcare system like so many others.

What’s that saying? You can’t prove a negative? Everyone here saw from day one that the government was going to say the measures worked no matter what, right? Since they could always say it would’ve been worse without the measures.

#215 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 8:43 pm

#57 Henry Dougan on 12.17.20 at 3:33 pm
“What about the social contract about everyone paying taxes on all their income and not only 30% to 40% of Canadians paying most if not all the total taxes in Canada.”

Don’t worry about it my friend, taxes are always passed down through prices. A progressive tax system is just a way of making the tow-truck driver collect the taxes rather than the CRA having to go after all his customers.

There is a reason it costs $140 an hour to get a plumber to look at your toilet, but he only gets paid $30/hr. The company he works for is responsible for collecting the taxes.

We all pay the same effective tax rate. For most it is just hidden in price.

#216 PVS on 12.17.20 at 8:46 pm

Well said Garth. Thank you!

#217 barnz0rz on 12.17.20 at 8:49 pm

It’s about the health care system.

My mom just died of cancer a month ago. She falls into the “because” of Covid category. BC was not doing imaging or biopsies between March and June because of restrictions. She got her imaging in July, her biopsy in August, her results the first week of September, and she passed away November 8th.

Am I mad about it? A bit, but at the time (March to June) no one knew what was going to happen. In fact I would say most people were expecting us to be where we are now. We feared going to the hospital then because we didn’t want to be exposed. We were concerned about spread. But given all the circumstance (she had a rare form of lung cancer that spreads very quickly) I can’t be mad about how things went down because her chances of survival would have been low to begin with. My only frustration in the case of her disease is that she could have had more of a chance.

That being said, having spent the 2 hardest months of my life doing home care for her, in hosptials, in ambulance transfer vehicles, and in hospice, if you can’t see that all of the measures in place are to protect vulnerable people, and most importantly the people who look after them, let’s grab a drink and have a Zoom chat and I’ll tell you some stories about my time in those places.

Be a part of something a bit bigger and more important than just yourself.

I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for the courage to share. – Garth

#218 Ustabe on 12.17.20 at 8:51 pm

How come none of you sturdy, conservative men were bitching about Pfizer when they rolled out Viagra?

#219 Steerage science on 12.17.20 at 8:52 pm

Garth trolling the anti-vaxxers… hilarious… this is a stunning scientific achievement… the woman -Katalin Kariko – who concieved of the idea of mRNA vaccines and therapies for other diseases is gonna get the Nobel prize for this…. this is proof of the technology after 30 years development. .. it will find many other applications

#220 Steve Hardy on 12.17.20 at 8:57 pm

Scheduled for my first dose of vaccine this Saturday. Down here in North Carolina. Excited to be part of the solution. Like you, Garth, I see it as a duty.

#221 Audacious on 12.17.20 at 9:01 pm

#203 Ustabe on 12.17.20 at 8:51 pm

How come none of you sturdy, conservative men were bitching about Pfizer when they rolled out Viagra?

___::::______

Cause if you give a man an inch, he thinks he is a ruler!

#222 will on 12.17.20 at 9:02 pm

Garth Turner. Maverick…

#223 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 9:17 pm

#217 Ustabe on 12.17.20 at 8:51 pm

“How come none of you sturdy, conservative men were bitching about Pfizer when they rolled out Viagra?”

Because it turns out you don’t need it if you are dating a younger woman. Just ask Orange Man Bad.

All joking aside, I will take the jab when available to me because even though I have some reservations, by that time millions of people will have had it and be in the studies. I don’t think I will ever take Viagra though. 5 hour erections? I don’t have that kind of time! I have to comment here.

#224 espressobob on 12.17.20 at 9:19 pm

#202 SOS

A perfect example of a self absorbed individual using anecdotal viewpoints to justify ones position during a pandemic.

Tell that to those that happen to have a bad reaction to covid and through no fault of their own find themselves in an overwhelmed ICU.

That’s not your problem, no worries,right? Hopefully you dont find yourself in that position…

#225 Northern man on 12.17.20 at 9:24 pm

DELETED

#226 nope on 12.17.20 at 9:26 pm

and more nope

#227 Michael in-north-york on 12.17.20 at 9:33 pm

WFH will not become universal, but it can’t be reduced back to the pre-covid level.

Some employers will demand everyone back to the office. Employees won’t quit en masse, most of them will comply. But a portion of workers with most marketable skills will start shopping around.

Other employers will endorse a full or partial WFH. Those who manage to do so without losing productivity, will gain a competitive advantage. First, they will get a better workforce, and second, they will save on the office expenses.

Which trend wins at the end? Probably, neither wins completely. Both types of workplaces will co-exist.

#228 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 9:34 pm

#209 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 8:30 pm
I stand corrected, the number is cumulative.
…….
But does it change your position?

#229 Doug t on 12.17.20 at 9:40 pm

#213 SOS

very astute

#230 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 9:51 pm

“And Trump won, right? – Garth”

Well, he was wining in a landslide when I went to bed on Nov. 3rd. (Nov. 4th actually, I’m a night owl.) But then the mail in ballots came in overnight.

But now that the electoral college has voted even I have to admit the question is settled.

But you have to admit it looks weird. There has never been a “come from behind” win like this before. But at this point all that can be done is throw some ballot stuffers in jail and improve the system for next time. If there was any hanky-panky, I doubt Biden was in on it, although he did act like he had some insider information about how the mail-ins were going to go on Nov. 3rd when he was trailing badly. Could have been just survey information.

Anyway they have to fix that system up. All elections have fraud but it seldom affects the outcome, or appears to.

Biden won by over 7 million votes across an array of states. Stop sounding like a total rube. – Garth

#231 Doug t on 12.17.20 at 9:54 pm

there are different ways of looking at all this – and perhaps one is that those who don’t want the vaccine, or wait, are not cowardly but actually brave – hmmm – don’t know – we will see

#232 Another Deckchair on 12.17.20 at 9:56 pm

Faron:

“Why are you and others so bitter about renewables? Comes across as being invested in its destruction.”

For me, I *totally* agree with reducing carbon footprint, etc. Solar for my sailboat – most certainly on your side.

What gets *me* are those who preach but don’t understand, or look the other way.

The scaling up, *and* the convincing those that don’t care, are the difficult bits. (for the record, as a Senior Citizen, I walk, cycle, have a bus pass, and actually don’t own a car. My wife does, so there’s one in the driveway, not 2 or 3 or 4 that the neighbours have).

No, when you look at scaling up – that Nation Sized Battery entry in the blog I pointed to earlier (https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/08/nation-sized-battery/) really made me realize back 10 or so years ago that skimming the surface was not going to cut it.

So, I’m on your side, but trying to come to grips with the big picture, not my individual part in reduction.

#233 Sara on 12.17.20 at 9:58 pm

#204 henry on 12.17.20 at 8:25 pm
covid science , environmental movement science, abortion science, evolution science… is all the same science:
called “Science Fiction”

==================

I have second hand embarrassment after reading your extremely dumb comment. No words.

#234 Stan Brooks on 12.17.20 at 9:59 pm

Too late to preserve ‘social contracts’ in an disintegrating society.

Same with the prudent tax payers who ‘should’ pay for everyone’s folly.

Sorry, this ship has sailed. Good luck with finding idiots to row in the gallery.

It is very interesting that many people now give medical advices that differ from what my doctor/a medical professional/ told me.

Everyone should be free to make their own choices.

Cheers,

#235 Steve on 12.17.20 at 10:12 pm

The anti vax people don’t understand the true impact of diseases had on people. It the same, we have all this technology now so people can idiots while driving. Covid is bad but it’s not small pox, polio, or the plague. I am grateful for the science that saved by from those horrible diseases and grateful for the vaccine that will allow to return to normal. As for working from home, I forget the days of the week and the hours of the day. I miss the social interactions. I want normal!

#236 Pete from St. Cesaire on 12.17.20 at 10:13 pm

Turnernation has it right.

It’s amazing the amount of people who pontificate about “those crazy conspiracy theories, none of which have ever come true” as they are currently living the reality of almost every ‘conspiracy theory’ spoken of over the last 30 years.

#237 Sheesh on 12.17.20 at 10:32 pm

#209 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.17.20 at 8:30 pm

I stand corrected, the number is cumulative.
…..
Well, that’s a start.

FWIW, I’ve worked in long term care, and most of the residents are on vitamin d supplements. It’s not a cure all.

#238 MF on 12.17.20 at 10:43 pm

40 calgaryPhantom on 12.17.20 at 12:46 pm

A happy a fulfilling life comes from within.

If we are talking about external factors specifically, what is absolutely essential is stability. Predictability. Predictability allows for planning, goal setting, and accomplishing. These types of things are what lead to happiness.

Not money. Not by a long shot.

Canada offers loads of stability. We bicker and moan here about housing, but it is the only real negative to be honest. Every other country has the same problems as ours, only magnified x 10. And the weather is a lame complaint. The winter allows for us not to worry about tropical diseases. We also don’t get six months of rain and monsoons like some “tropical paradise”. California gets tons of sun but is on a fault line. And so on.

Life is good.

MF

#239 CL on 12.17.20 at 10:49 pm

People are resisting because we are being “led” by incompetent politicians and “experts”. People are rightfully skeptical because of exactly what you wrote…nothing is working so why “lockdown”? why mask? They made masks mandatory in public places August 1 and since then infections have skyrocketed. The first lock down didn’t work why would the second or third etc…?

I realized awhile ago that they would have Covid “passports” coming soon to a theatre near you. People’s health is a very private matter and I was prepared (still am) to ask see your hemorrhoid card. Humans are thrilled when they have perceived power over people and the passport will be no different. Everyone is a dictator now.

I could careless about being let in to a retailer, they’re just a retailer and there are other ways to get around in life. Retail isn’t life or death. However, one thing you pointed out really resonated with me and it will result in me getting the shot(s) and that is the fact that, yes, the vaccines you mentioned were mandatory and that was your generation that was part of it. We also had to get mandatory vaccinations during my early years. Your comments made me aware that, yes, this is necessary in order to resume a normal society…however far off that may be. So, you’re right (I will never admit that in public) I value and am grateful that I did not have to experience those infections other than the mumps in the 70s and maybe I and others need(ed) a reminder that, like everything else in life, this is nothing new. It’s just new to the current population. There is nothing in this world that hasn’t already happened already in history. We just weren’t there.

I have shaken my head in the last several years over the “anti vax” movement while simultaneously watching those viruses re-surface in society as a result. Yet, here I was saying I won’t be forced to vax. I am a hypocrite. But I try to catch myself and I just did.

So, I will pay that forward and take the poke for that reason even though those in the future will not be aware or even grateful for me/us doing so. I will start advocating for the same to my social circle. What’s left of it anyway.

#240 Outrage on 12.17.20 at 10:52 pm

# 62 Nick
Right on .You are one of the smart ones that figured it out. Yes the cost of living is way to high and the taxes are huge. The coming debt crisis will destroy many Canadians. Get a EU passport or just leave as fast as you can. I’m in Mexico and everything is relaxed. The cost of living is really cheap here. Good luck to you and don’t delay.

#241 Upenuff on 12.17.20 at 10:52 pm

#216 barnz0rz on 12.17.20 at 8:49 pm
It’s about the health care system.

____________________________________________

So sorry for your loss. We lost a loved one in April due to a cancelled medical appointment. COVID virus is not the only killer. Please think of others and do the right thing.

Upenuff

#242 Axehead on 12.17.20 at 10:53 pm

I would be reluctant to call the soldier who risked his life for his country and refuses the vaccine a coward, or the mother who would die for her son and refuses the vaccine a coward, or the policeman who risks his life every day so we can sleep soundly and refuses the vaccine a coward, for whatever reason they choose.

#243 MF on 12.17.20 at 11:09 pm

Today’s post:

Wfh is here to stay. Zero chance we will go back to the way things were in February. We might not have the same amount of wfh as we do now during lockdowns, but we will have more than we did prior to the pandemic going forward. For sure.

The second half of the post was quite profound.

Vaccines have 100% improved the health of mankind since their creation. Anyone who disagrees is ignorant to history, and arrogant to mother nature. Vaccine rollout has had its hiccups though. The polio vaccine, in particular is the obvious example. So i understand some of the hesitation. However, as the post mentioned, life can’t go on like this. Something has to give. We just need to have faith in modern science and do what is necessary to move on.

Another obvious positive here should be the realization that, with enough effort and resources, any heath crisis can be solved. Let’s hope this sparks renewed interest in research and development for other cures to other diseases that maim and kill indiscrimately.

MF

#244 KLNR on 12.17.20 at 11:12 pm

@#184 mike from corbeil on 12.17.20 at 7:25 pm
While most seem to be cheering on todays post, I found it
very divisive and condescending.

The way we experience the world around us
is a direct reflection of the world within us.
– Gabrielle Bernstein

#245 NSNG on 12.17.20 at 11:29 pm

Please detail the people this vaccine has ‘maimed’ in trials or innoculations. I heard of three allergic reactions with three recoveries. Where is your data coming from, or did you make it up? – Garth

Obviously, it hasn’t happened yet with this group of vaccines because they haven’t hit the general population. Drug companies have been shown in the past to cheat and lie on trials. When big bucks are involved and your pal from Harvard is on the FDA who will soon be put on your board of directors when they step down, then the oversight can tend to be lacking.

It has happened in the past that people have been harmed by what drug companies have claimed were safe drugs. Why do you think the government indemnified them now? It’s because of past mistakes.

So it is not the drugs themselves that can’t be trusted. It’s those that administer them.

List of class-action lawsuits against drug companies

https://www.thejusticelawyer.com/class-action-lawsuits/dangerous-drugs-medical-devices-list/

You made it up then. Thanks for the update. – Garth

#246 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 11:44 pm

#219 Steve Hardy on 12.17.20 at 8:57 pm
Scheduled for my first dose of vaccine this Saturday. Down here in North Carolina. Excited to be part of the solution. Like you, Garth, I see it as a duty.
———–
Good for you.
Who did you vote for?

#247 millmech on 12.18.20 at 12:03 am

DELETED

#248 Fred on 12.18.20 at 2:17 am

Public duty to be vaxxed? Hmmmm no.
Objectively, it’s an unproven vaccine with no real studies on long term effects. Y’all can have mine

#249 Steerage science on 12.18.20 at 2:43 am

Hey anti-vaxxers read this… she is gonna win a Nobel for the research that started such a cool cool idea… now roll up your sleeve to win…..and be a part of history.

https://amp.theguardian.com/science/2020/nov/21/covid-vaccine-technology-pioneer-i-never-doubted-it-would-work?__twitter_impression=true

#250 SoggyShorts on 12.18.20 at 3:10 am

#64 Jaheer on 12.17.20 at 3:50 pm

Go ahead and get the jab, I just hope they don’t deny those who prefer the cheap, effective solutions (no longer patented so no $ for big pharma) of ivermectin, doxycycline, hydrochloroquine. I don’t want to be a voluntary Guinea pig until evil forces me

***************
Haha sucker! You’re still paying way too much. You gotta go for the real deal: Clorox, Oxiclean, and Comet injections is where the real savings are- and these products have a real track record, proven usage for over 100 years, not 6 months!

#251 Buy? Curious? on 12.18.20 at 4:02 am

Garth, you beautiful, handsome, distinguished gentleman, if everyone knows that smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol causes a myriad of diseases yet people still do it anyways, why can’t we apply the same philosophy to face masks? I think old people who at the top making the lockdown decisions are selfish to the utmost degree! Who are they to say my opportunity at life has to go on hold because granny might get sick and die. The key word being “might”.

Go visit your relatives, say hi at your local bingo hall on your way to Timmies.

#252 Alex G. on 12.18.20 at 4:41 am

#174 Andy on 12.17.20 at 7:10 pm

“…Because science says pregnant and lactating women can’t take it. Scientists literally have no idea of the effects.

They also have minimal data on the vaccine’s effects on fertility. Kinda big risk don’t you think?…”
___________________________________

This will be a massive over-simplification but here goes:

Pregnant & lactating women weren’t part of the initial trial, as a result, we cannot speak to its efficacy and/or potential dangers to the fetus/nursing child. It was also not tested in children as far as I know, hence it’s not recommended for anyone under the age of 16 for the time being.

Any impact on fertility would be highly unexpected and very unlikely (bare with me for a moment; will explain shortly – unless the target sequence for COVID-19 somehow is for some reason present in your genome – specifically the part encoding your reproductive tissue function or somebody royally messed up as they were selecting the encoding sequence and they have off-target silencing – which doesn’t seem to be the case – they would have noticed something in the 22K people that got the active vaccine). mRNA vaccines are much more specific and considerably less toxic than your “traditional vaccines”. Furthermore, their “main action” only lasts between 5 and about 15 days. This is when the mRNA strands that get injected into you get picked up by the body and your cells begin producing or inhibiting the production of the desired molecule/protein etc.

Long story short, think of mRNA vaccines as a lock-and-key mechanism. They are made to be very specific (each key – mRNA strand – is supposed to only match a specific lock – desired target region). So, it would be highly unlikely that someone’s gonads have the same DNA sequence that matches COVID. It’s a bit like saying, I’ve got a copy of your house key, therefore I’m going to open up the manhole cover in the street. Not the right fit.

Can someone mess up… sure… select a sequence that is too short (think if your local Home Depot person only made a copy of the tip of your house key) that one portion of it may match many other locks (and you get off target effects) but when you generate a decent sequence match (copy the entire house key) the chance for off-target effects is much lower. And again, it only lasts for 5-15 days or so (depending on how it’s made) then it degrades, gets broken down by the many enzymes in your body. The point is that during those 5-15 days you stimulate the immune system, your T-cells etc, and they act as though this artificially copied COVID mRNA that your body amplified, is the actual virus so you trigger an immune response. Then you need to leave a couple of weeks for your system to “recover” and then you need the second dose to again, stimulate the system. That’s why, for the Pfizer vaccine, optimal efficacy is reached about 10 days after the second dose.

Again, this is me over-simplifying how the basic technology works. There are slight variations for each of these steps depending on the vaccine etc. This also doesn’t mean that there’s 0 risks. But they come more in the form of adverse reactions to the adjuvant (stuff that is included in the vaccine when you reconstitute/dilute it from -80C) and those are mostly allergic in nature.

Oh and I’ve worked with various mRNAs back in the mid-2000s in various in vitro and in vivo settings to temporarily suppress the expression of specific proteins, which is a bit like the grandfather technology that these vaccines are based on so they’re designed to be even more specific than what we used back in those days.

So, yes, it’s important to study these and make sure they’re safe in all individuals. That’s why kids, and especially infants don’t usually get included in the earlier studies… their bodies are changing at a much higher rate and there are many processes that are still ongoing for them that for adults is no longer the case. So the potential risk of off-target activation/inactivation is somewhat higher in those groups. But this is usually done out of an abundance of caution. As long as the mRNA sequence you’re interested in was properly devised, off-target issues should be all but non-existent.

And the likely impact on the reproductive system of adults is pretty much non-existent – provided they chose their sequences correctly. Which again, you would have had issues with a lot of people from those 22K active vaccine trial recipients if that were the case.

Anyway, this was my attempt at simplifying the theory and practice of this technique… again, coming from someone who has actually worked with mRNA on numerous occasions. Hope this helps.

Here’s the CDC explaining mRNA vaccines if you want more info: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

#253 majik on 12.18.20 at 5:10 am

“Employers won’t want non-immunized people in the workplace, lest they face liability for infections. No way Air Canada or WestJet is letting you into the passenger cabin without proof of vaccination. Why would Costco, Home Depot or Canadian Tire allow the unvaxed to mingle with other customers?”
—————
I refuted this point yesterday. No employer will take on the liability that an employee may have an adverse reaction to a vaccine that they as employers have required the employee to take, they’ll have zero legal cover. The advice will continue to be ‘go home, isolate for 14 days, get a test.’

The airlines aren’t going to do anything without Transport Canada or Public Health Canada proscribing regulations, and how would those regulations apply? Internationally, domestically, puddle jump across the Georgia Straight? And remember if passengers are required to be vaccinated it then also means that the airline employees would be forced to as well. The unions will have something to say. Airlines are not going to strongly lobby for something that could potentially put them into conflict with the unions. It will be the same across all heavily unionized industries, they’ll wait for government regulations, if they ever come.

If a private business of their own accord required proof of vaccination, which is after all a private medical record, they would need to show, if challenged, that the requirement was reasonable and time-limited. Once herd immunity was reached and the virus quashed the reasonableness grounds would be weakened. If a private business attempts this it will be temporary, a few months at most. G10 countries are on track to reach herd immunity by mid-summer with a combination of vaccination and infection.

Again as I noted yesterday the only employers likely to mandate a vaccine will be those in the medical field, as they are licensed and are already heavily regulated with regards to patient safety and health.

#254 BillyBob on 12.18.20 at 5:58 am

#145 Gogo on 12.17.20 at 5:54 pm
You wouldn’t drive a car that is not tested, but you call antivaxers, people who would not take a vaccine that is tested ten times faster than normal, made by completely untested technology. Wow.

==================================

This highlights the problem. It just “seems” or “feels” a certain way to me, so it must be true.

mRNA is not new. The technique is 30 years old although it was just after the milennium that it was perfected. It is just a single strand of DNA that is rapidly broken down after telling the body to produce antibodies and lymphocytes the same as a real infection.

It wasnt rushed. It is a vaccine not a drug so you dont give it to X people over Y years. You give it to half your volunteers and inject the same number with saline or another vaccine. You carry on until X volunteers become ill then check if more became ill in the placebo group. The time the trial takes depends upon the incidence of the disease so for most diseases it takes decades before enough placebo volunteers become ill, but when 200,000 new cases occur every day in just one country it only took months. The trial was no different from any other vaccine trial.

“I’ve done my research” = I watch looney tunes conspiracy theory videos on YouTube and blogs on the dark corner of the internet.

I hope one day I’ll cease to be amazed at just how many people exist who – truly and profoundly – feel their ignorance is equivalent to others’ educations, and that believing something very strongly makes it true.

#255 BillyBob on 12.18.20 at 6:16 am

Some quotes from a former Brit colleague, slightly edited:

“Read an interesting article today by an author who has written a recent book about why people are anti-vaxxers. The root cause is people who have little control over their own lives trying to demonstrate their fake cleverness by refusing to take a vaccine.

These are the ones who post the “don’t like the interference in MY life” tripe who take the approach that their life is The Entire Universe.

Not really surprising as it really dates back to the “no such thing as society” drivel peddled by Thatcher et al since the 80s.

I wonder how many anti-vaxxer refuseniks there are in more impoverished countries in the world? Can’t see many of them turning down a vaccine of any sort, be it smallpox, measles or COVID.

What is ironic is that if for some reason drug companies suddenly announced that only people prepared to pay a large sum of money for a vaccination would get it, the very same refuseniks would be the ones hurling vitriol against big pharma and demanding their rights to have a jab.

Why? – because it sets them apart from the herd again. After all, they are the smartest person they know….”

If only this virus targeted the stupid and selfish exclusively.

#256 MF on 12.18.20 at 6:50 am

27 Outrage on 12.17.20 at 10:52 pm

Someone from the EU complaining about Canada’s debt and taxes is hilarious.

Canada will be fine. It’s the EU you probably have to worry about. Mexico has obvious problems.

It’s hilarious. A lot of the “hate” Canada gets is simply frustration with some political party or leader dressed up as something else. What a bunch of whiny babies.

MF

#257 Keen Reader on 12.18.20 at 7:09 am

@ Alex G. – very nice explanations, thanks. This is much more helpful than the name-calling and extreme characterization used by too many, here.

@ BillyBob – no doubt that Health authorities who certifed these new vaccines know a lot more than all of us here. My fellow aircraft certification engineers and test pilots are also experts in their field. Small comfort to victims of the 737 MAX… Would I be worried about flying one now? Not anymore. Did I cancel my MAX flight when dead-heading back home from Africa, just before the fleet grounding? You betcha!!

#258 Rach on 12.18.20 at 7:40 am

Proof of vaccine at the airport ? It will be the same protocols they used as when they were checking if people had the virus.

“Hello, have you had the vaccine?”
“Yes”
“Ok great we’ll take your word for it just like we did when we simply asked people if they have any virus symptoms. Have a good flight!”

They’re desperate to stay alive and vaccine or not they’re going to let anyone on the plane claiming the ones who haven’t been vaccinated will be taking their own risk by being there.

#259 mick McClean on 12.18.20 at 8:00 am

#160 S.Bby
Coca-Cola may be down in sales and getting rid of some brands like TAB (didn’t know it was still around) but are gearing up production in Brampton and Quebec
https://globalnews.ca/news/7528489/coca-cola-canada-expansion-ontario-quebec/

#260 IHCTD9 on 12.18.20 at 8:03 am

#233 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.17.20 at 11:44 pm
#219 Steve Hardy on 12.17.20 at 8:57 pm
Scheduled for my first dose of vaccine this Saturday. Down here in North Carolina. Excited to be part of the solution. Like you, Garth, I see it as a duty.
———–

Good for you.
Who did you vote for?

____

Ponzie, this has to be one of your dumbest posts ever.

#261 David Hawke on 12.18.20 at 8:17 am

Post #7 TurnerNation Spot-on!

#262 Gravy Train on 12.18.20 at 9:06 am

#203 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 8:23 pm
“I am not against renewables per se, but the hype. They don’t scale to the level necessary […]” Solar panels and wind turbines do scale: look at all the available rooftops. Coal-fired and nuclear power plants don’t scale. You have the argument exactly backwards!

“[…] and they require all the existing infrastructure to be on standby for when the sun doesn’t shine or the wind doesn’t blow, or as they proved in California for days where the wind blows [too] much, which is terribly redundant (although it does reduce CO2 emissions).” Power companies all over the world provide net metering to customers. Why would they offer this service if it weren’t for their own and their customers’ benefit?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering

“Most people who go big with solar on their roof are not self-sufficient. They sell power to the grid during the day and then suck it right back out again at night.” Read up on net metering.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering

“This further complicates the balancing problem the utilities already have and forces them to act as a sort of ‘battery service’ for solar owners.” Who is forcing these utilities to provide net metering? Do they have a gun to their heads?

“There is only so much of that they can do and it costs them money to have all those generators idle during the day.” Please provide a reference to an academic study or scholastic article supporting your assertion.

“The problem isn’t too bad right now but if you try and envision as much as 50% of the power coming from solar the problem will be nearly unmanageable. It isn’t doable unless everyone gets a matching battery bank, which is expensive and only lasts 10 years, [etc.]” I signed an enhanced net metering contract with my power company to the year 2040. Explain to me why power companies offer net metering! If you can’t, then stop bloviating!

“There is no such thing as a free lunch.” The sun is a free lunch; uranium isn’t.

“But my main beef of course is carbon taxes.” Think of them as Pigovian taxes and subsidies. Read up on the subject before bloviating any further.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax

“That was long even for me. Sorry.” I forgive you. I suspect economics and finance will always be mystifying and mystical to you. You remind me of another commenter, Economystic, who was equally ignorant of basic economics!

#263 Canuck on 12.18.20 at 9:24 am

Biden won by over 7 million votes across an array of states. Stop sounding like a total rube. – Garth
_____________________________________________

Yes, it’s totally understandable how someone who stayed in their basement for most of the campaign other than to talk to a dozen cars at speeches a handful of times and never had a press conference, got 10 million more votes than Barack Obama.

They were voting against Trump. Easy to understand. – Garth

#264 Ordinary Blog Dog on 12.18.20 at 9:30 am

Yep, the passport (or some verification angle) is coming, no doubt about it. And employers will want employees to be vaccinated. People who think this will not happen are nieve. That is about as polite as I can put it.

#265 Some Guy on 12.18.20 at 9:33 am

DELETED

#266 IHCTD9 on 12.18.20 at 9:34 am

#255 MF on 12.18.20 at 6:50 am

…or leader dressed up as something else.
___

We’ve definitely got the man (complete with tickle trunk) for the job here in Canada.

#267 Dharma Bum on 12.18.20 at 9:39 am

The vaccination debate is moot.

Once widely available it will be mandatory.

And by mandatory, I mean illegal not to be vaccinated.

And to all those claiming that the government cannot force you to get vaccinated: WRONG.

10 months ago it was said that the government cannot force a business to shut down or force you to stay home.

The government can do whatever they damn well please.
They have before, and they are doing it now.

If you want to live “freely”, you will get the vaccine.

In fact, you will get it whether you want it or not.

Vaccines, and avoidance of “speaking moistly” will eradicate the virus. These are the things we know.

I still cannot get this song outta my head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eySDeBdqxGY

#268 BillyBob on 12.18.20 at 10:04 am

#256 Keen Reader on 12.18.20 at 7:09 am

@ BillyBob – no doubt that Health authorities who certifed these new vaccines know a lot more than all of us here. My fellow aircraft certification engineers and test pilots are also experts in their field. Small comfort to victims of the 737 MAX… Would I be worried about flying one now? Not anymore. Did I cancel my MAX flight when dead-heading back home from Africa, just before the fleet grounding? You betcha!!

=================================

That has to be the worst attempt at an analogy yet.

To use your B737Max scenario, MCAS was the virus and now Boeing has found the vaccine. And you’re not worried about flying on it now. But you’re skeptical of the Covid-19 vaccine? Ok. Why are you willing to “blindly trust” what Boeing has done to fix the Max but not what far more scientists and resources have achieved in medicine?

The fact is that the outcome of Covid-19 for millions is well-known: premature death. For hundreds of millions more, economic and social devastation.

Even with a vaccine’s unknowns, eschewing a possible solution that minds far greater than yours or mine have developed is the height of folly.

Given your demonstrably poor logic and risk assessment abilities, I highly doubt your claims of being involved in aviation at all.

#269 IHCTD9 on 12.18.20 at 10:04 am

#217 Ustabe on 12.17.20 at 8:51 pm
How come none of you sturdy, conservative men were bitching about Pfizer when they rolled out Viagra?
____

Well, obviously if they are sturdy – they don’t need the stuff yet.

#270 CHERRY BLOSSOM on 12.18.20 at 10:15 am

I am confused. The Infuenza comes back every year even after we get a anti flu needle. I think the Covid-19 Influenza may come back every year albeit a little mutated. What do you think.
Garth you are correct about the Covid Passport. I have been saying this “You cannot enter without showing your passport” Here come the Black Market Passports.

#271 Tron Light on 12.18.20 at 10:52 am

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

– Charles Mackay

#272 The West on 12.18.20 at 10:55 am

Sorry I’m late. The popcorn took longer than usual……

LOL

#273 Stan Brooks on 12.18.20 at 11:02 am

Real Estate is doomed/whatever is left from the uber inflation tsunami.

The World’s CFOs Have a Dire Message for Real-Estate Investors

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/world-cfos-dire-message-real-050000470.html

Working from home is here to stay and grow, working/making Business from nicer and cheaper places around the world while enjoying top bucks.

#274 IHCTD9 on 12.18.20 at 11:22 am

#95 Howard on 12.17.20 at 4:28 pm

…Canada is no country for young people unless their parents are rich. And even then, if you’re born into wealth and can therefore go anywhere with little financial risk, why on earth would you stay in Canada?
_____

I think T2 is a goof, along with his entire caucus. So much so, that I am laying plans to have the resources available to rescue my kids should they need it in future Canada. The damage the Liberals have done to Canada will span several generations, on multiple fronts. I may have to start saving for any future grandkids too.

Even so, I think staying in Canada would be best, you just have to learn how to play the game so that you win. Many young peeps would need a new area code, likely a new career, and possibly a new attitude, but the door is open, just need to walk through.

The reality on the ground here in my lcol area compared to life in places like the GTA is STARK. Right now, our cost of living in a paid for SFD on 4 acres is a measly 600.00/mo. utilities included. That’s against a 12K/mo. gross income. Add in a grand/mo. for groceries and car/toy insurance, and you’ve still got over 10K in gravy every single month.
Then add to that about 14,700.00 in Trudeau handouts/Tax cash on top for 2020.

As Charlie Sheen likes to say, that is “winning”. Make the stupidity in this country work for you, instead of against you. I don’t think you’d be able to pull this off in many other countries that also have the upsides that Canada does.

#275 Russ on 12.18.20 at 11:41 am

Dear Garth,

I respectfully request today’s blog entry be something useful, with no real estate or COVID-19 reference.

*insert genu…*
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/business-commerce-boss-manager-management-corporate_culture-genuflect-jman158_low.jpg

Cheers, R

#276 Andy on 12.18.20 at 12:12 pm

#251 Alex G. – Thanks for the in-depth response. I understand what you’re saying, and correct me if I’m summarizing incorrectly, you’re saying that you/scientists can’t think of a way that the vaccine could possibly negatively influence fertility, births or child development.

It all made sense. However let me relay a story to you. I used to own and run a government registered test lab for safety testing hardware manufacturers’ newly designed products (medical, military, consumer, industrial etc..).

Guess how many of the manufacturers anticipated that they were actually going to fail testing? Only about 10%.

The other 90%; let’s call them the flippant, or arrogant, or uninformed, or careless, or overly optimistic, or risk tolerant, or those without the awareness of the myriad ways in which a product can fail ‘bunch’.. those folks always got a nasty surprise when they failed and it was invariably a shock to them (and their egos).

And guess what percentage of products actually failed the tests? About 50-60%.

The problem is that failure modes do not occur in the modes that you anticipate. They always occur due to some other mode that you hadn’t anticipated. This is why accredited 3rd party testing exists.

In your post, you have listed the ways in which scientists anticipate a vaccine could influence the reproductive system and why it *probably* won’t (like I said in my original post). Without animal/human testing, you don’t know that for sure. Right?

A human body is orders of magnitude more complex than a hardware product, so I have to extrapolate that there are orders of magnitude more ways that you have not anticipated that the vaccine can influence the reproductive system.

I’ll leave you with a line from Pfizer’s instructions provided with every vial of their vaccine: “it is unknown whether [Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine] has an impact on fertility.” Why on earth would you advocate for most of humanity to be vaccinated with this when this warning is literally printed in the instructions?

Which camp are you in? The overly confident 90%, operating with an information deficit and your fingers crossed behind your back, or the data driven realistic 10%?

Be my guest to volunteer yourself or your pre-birth daughter as a Guinea pig, but I would advise more humility when you haphazardly assume that it is safe without long term testing data to backup that assertion.

#277 MIKEF on 12.18.20 at 12:13 pm

California gets tons of sun but is on a fault line. And so on.

The ground may be frozen but it ain’t moving.

#278 Victor Maitland on 12.18.20 at 12:30 pm

@#151 Bishop, good points all. But obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, etc., are not contagious. Nor are the cancers and cardiovascular diseases stemming from the above. COVID-19 is very contagious. So yes, the vaccine is a much more urgent and necessary social responsibility.

#279 Steven Rowlandson on 12.18.20 at 12:40 pm

With people nothing happens in even numbers especially numbers with plenty of zeroes.

#280 Stoph on 12.18.20 at 12:43 pm

#149 Spanky on 12.17.20 at 6:10 pm
I’d like to see a statistical breakdown of who actually dies from COVID by age. Haven’t seen one yet. If someone has a link please post it as I can’t find one.

—————————————————————–

Alberta releases decent stats of its cases:
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#severe-outcomes

#281 Peautoria on 12.18.20 at 12:59 pm

@Billybob

Riddle me this: which Covid-19 vaccine to date has performed animal studies…specifically challenge-rechallenge in ferrets?

(Crickets)

If/until that data is produced, I will be holding off on being a little be guinea pig. Useful idiots can go first (for the good of society).

Waiting…..

Are you a ferret? Then I don’t blame you. – Garth

#282 Kyle on 12.18.20 at 1:55 pm

@Garth – Not sure I understand the military reference. I also don’t understand why you would be against a data driven decision? I’d much rather base a decision on a representative sample size, ie round 1 of the vaccine… Would you rather base a financial decision on a fiscal quarter of data a full fiscal year? Particularly if the company has a history of non transparency and has a conflict of interest… Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing against the vaccine, I am hopeful the larger data set comes back positive and will then roll up the sleeve!

————–

I think there is a large % of people in the bucket that I fall in. Very little trust in governments and institutions that will initially hold out on getting the jab. We want to see some serious data, once that is available will then likely get jabbed if it looks reasonable.

I’m glad you’re not in the military. – Garth

You mean if there’s no risk to you then you’ll join the battle to save society? – Garth

#283 Steerage science on 12.18.20 at 2:06 pm

#281 Kyle on 12.18.20 at 1:55 pm

@Garth – Not sure I understand the military reference. I also don’t understand why you would be against a data driven decision? …

….
What the heck do you think the independent review panels have just looked at……….the decision is based on data collected in clinical trials just like every other vaccine that has ever been approved… no difference at all……….as soon as efficacy is proven trials stop…it’s unethical to continue them knowing you have already proven you have an effective vaccine….. the mRNA ones have been shown to be highly effective. it is an amazing scientific achievement

Roll up your sleeve to win.

#284 Diamond Dog on 12.18.20 at 2:33 pm

#149 Spanky on 12.17.20 at 6:10 pm

This is the most up to date for Canada, scroll down to Figure 3:

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html

Easy enough to find, type in “Covid19 by age” or “Covid19 by demographics” or “hospitals overwhelmed” or go state by state if you like or “morgues overwhelmed” in your internet window, get creative and watch hours slip by :)

It should be noted that what is happening in the U.S. is nothing short of human tragedy and it was mainly politically driven. I follow this site almost daily:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

There’s no other nation on Earth that is going through what the U.S. is right now and it’s a direct result of propaganda and disinformation, much of it coming from a WH that used propaganda and disinformation as tools for re-election and one would have to think even at this point, some level of treason. What happened and is still happening in the U.S. is not the product of a healthy mind and Trump had help.

Garth has posted an excellent post today, opening up this blog to much needed dialogue on the choice and impacts of a vaccine. One can add more, there’s always more but it would require a book… or more to really do it justice. In this blog, one of the obvious themes is cost as economics and investing is what this blog is largely about but there’s a human cost to all of this as Garth has touched on quite well. Isolation, put off elective surgery’s, WFH and social disruption, none of this is good and when we look back to reflect on our mistakes, we’ll see that much of this was avoidable to some degree and hopefully we’ll be far more prepared for the next one. People should keep in mind… governments the world over have never been through anything like this. We need to give them some degree of slack but at the same time, there is large room for criticism not just with the way governments have handled it, but with the way we the people have as well. The largest criticism I have concerning us regular folk is just how gullible we are to misinformation and propaganda. Too many of us are too easily suckered and it’s disheartening, we should be collectively more advanced than this not just in the U.S. and elsewhere, but here at home.

I would only like to add that it’s more than fear that is driving anti vaxxer ideology. Bad choices are partly driven out of the fact that we have a choice and the moment random choices are introduced into the universe, the chances of use making the wrong choices go up! Even so, when people make bad choices, the public reaction is bad enough to change behaviors. That didn’t happen and FAKE NEWS is driving it. It’s the same fake news that not so surprisingly is the news that Trump loves the most.

Of course the masses have help in making poor choices. There are sites like FOX news and News max and right wing media that has followed Trump’s lead (some of it born out of loyalty even, at first. Why anyone would choose Trump as a hill to die on out of loyalty to a political brand, it sounds crazy because it is. There will be 350,000 people or more dead by New Year as a testament in the U.S.) but now it’s mutated into something even more disturbing for ratings as people’s want for shock and awe becomes ever more exploited, including their simple choice to REBEL.

What I’m trying to say, is that its more than fear that drives an anti vaccine movement, its being part of a counter culture however misguided, the attraction of being a part of a team, a social network however twisted we might initially perceive that network to be (like the proud boys or Nazis). It doesn’t matter if that team is a cult (like Trumpist Republicans) or if it’s the product of ignorance, misinformation and propaganda, its belonging to something bigger than one’s self and if we aren’t educated enough to see it for what it is, next thing we know we’ve made friends who think the same way and discriminate the same way and that’s our new life now.

#285 Alex G. on 12.18.20 at 4:03 pm

#276 Andy on 12.18.20 at 12:12 pm

“…I’ll leave you with a line from Pfizer’s instructions provided with every vial of their vaccine: “it is unknown whether [Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine] has an impact on fertility.” Why on earth would you advocate for most of humanity to be vaccinated with this when this warning is literally printed in the instructions?…”
__________________________________

That’s a fair point. I wasn’t part of the review process so I don’t know this with absolute certainty, but given the pace of vaccine approval, that sounds like a standard line that would be required by Health Canada (or any other regulatory agency) to be included in the product monograph of a drug/vaccine until certain studies can be completed. And for some, there are strict guidelines as to what constitutes an acceptable test/study. It may be a matter that you have to have a longitudinal study that last at least X months/years looking at potential reproductive side effects. Given the speed of vaccine development, those longitudinal data are not available yet, therefore, the manufacturer cannot remove that line from the monograph. Trust me, drug manufacturers try to remove such warning from their products so it’s certain that further studies are ongoing, but many have strict minimal run times before Health Canada or the FDA will ever allow a manufacturer to remove that warning from their label. Just because the warning is there doesn’t mean it will have reproductive side effects. It’s just that given the urgency that a vaccine is needed, many people out there can’t wait X more months/years for that warning to be legally removable.

And your point on product failure or sub-par quality is well taken. More than one of my experiments have been compromised by tainted reagents that we’d order from manufacturers over the years. But this were some of the basic reagents that weren’t as pure as they were supposed to. The nature of this type mRNA (when it’s sequenced properly) is such that it doesn’t leave any long-lasting effects on your own genome or on your gametes’ genome (and any resulting children).

As I said in my previous comment, I over-simplified things a little with my initial lock-and-key mechanism. Let me use another analogy here. The mRNA technology as used in the Pfizer vaccine is a bit like a code that tells your body which proteins to produce (in this case, inactive COVID-like proteins that are meant to stimulate your immune system so that once you are exposed to the virus your system’s already primed and ready to destroy it with minimal-to-no symptoms which otherwise could prove fatal for many). It’s a bit like sending some HTML code to alter the display of a web page. To have mRNA change your own DNA or that of your offspring by modifying the DNA in your sperm cells for instance you would need to couple the COVID-19 mRNA sequence with something like an adenovirus which can infect and modify your cells instead of simply giving them instructions. This tech exists, but the vaccines are not it. Back to the programming example above it would be like expecting some basic HTML command that merely changes the display colour of your text to act as a full blown C++ or Javascript that can run an entire app. Sure, you can merge HTML code with an app using any other programming language to do all sorts of things, but without the other language the HTML is just that. You can still screw up… you can put in the wrong colour code. So with the mRNA, you can mess up the sequence, so that it’s not that specific, having some side effects, maybe some of the reagents could potentially be contaminated (but they run quality control tests all the time on these so this messes production up and delays things a bit but usually doesn’t make it to the consumer market… although there are examples of drug companies messing things up…. recently there was that lovely mix-up with bottling Viagra in antidepressant bottles by mistake). So yes, they can screw up. But the mRNA, the way it’s designed, physically cannot alter your own DNA or that of your offspring, it just doesn’t have the biological components to do so in this format.

But I do agree with you that it pays to be aware that screw ups can happen, sometimes you might get boner pills instead of antidepressants (see https://nypost.com/2020/12/10/erectile-dysfunction-drug-mistakenly-packaged-with-antidepressant/ for reference)… but that’s at a different level from the underlying technology being dangerous in the way you thought it might be.

#286 Grundy on 12.18.20 at 11:08 pm

I think there are a few things that many people may have forgotten here.
1st-The vaccine was developed in a record short period of time where as all the vaccines you have mentioned were tested normally with no “operation Warp Speed”
2nd – as a proponent of vaccines in general, I would not hesitate to take it as long as the proper protocols and testing have been followed.
3rd- It bothers me that there is not even a debate on this. Since when can something this important not be debated with both sides listening to all opinions?
4th- This blog least has the guts to state it upfront, all antivax arguments will be deleted. Seems wrong but you are not alone. You tube and twitter simply wont publish anything with any other kind of viewpoint. Thats just wrong.
5th-Yes the shutdowns are killing the country and thats because it may be an overreaction. Funny how somebody who gets a steady paycheck has no problem mandating shutdowns.

#287 Nonplused on 12.19.20 at 2:09 am

#230 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 9:51 pm
“And Trump won, right? – Garth”

Well, he was wining in a landslide when I went to bed on Nov. 3rd. (Nov. 4th actually, I’m a night owl.) But then the mail in ballots came in overnight.

But now that the electoral college has voted even I have to admit the question is settled.

But you have to admit it looks weird. There has never been a “come from behind” win like this before. But at this point all that can be done is throw some ballot stuffers in jail and improve the system for next time. If there was any hanky-panky, I doubt Biden was in on it, although he did act like he had some insider information about how the mail-ins were going to go on Nov. 3rd when he was trailing badly. Could have been just survey information.

Anyway they have to fix that system up. All elections have fraud but it seldom affects the outcome, or appears to.

Biden won by over 7 million votes across an array of states. Stop sounding like a total rube. – Garth

There is only one rube here, and ain’t me.

#288 Rudy on 12.19.20 at 2:40 pm

I want to start by saying that I am for vaccines; however, I am also part of a smaller subset of the population (the immunosuppressed) and in my situation I am not able to get the Covid 19 vaccine at this time. There are some exceptions due to limited data so I don’t believe we can lump everyone in the general population into the “must get vaccine” category as each persons situation may be different. Discussions with a doctor may be needed to outweigh potential risks and benefits. More information can be found through NACI (National Advisory Committee on Immunization) on the Government of Canada website. They specifically mention the immunosuppressed, pregnant women and children.

#289 Prince Polo on 12.20.20 at 7:49 am

#236 Pete from St. Cesaire on 12.17.20 at 10:13 pm
Turnernation has it right. It’s amazing the amount of people who pontificate about “those crazy conspiracy theories, none of which have ever come true” as they are currently living the reality of almost every ‘conspiracy theory’ spoken of over the last 30 years.

===================================
The only conspiracy theory I see coming true is that aliens are stealing peoples’ brains…

—————————————————————
—————————————————————
#287 Nonplused on 12.19.20 at 2:09 am
#230 Nonplused on 12.17.20 at 9:51 pm
“And Trump won, right? – Garth”

Well, he was wining in a landslide when I went to bed on Nov. 3rd. (Nov. 4th actually, I’m a night owl.) But then the mail in ballots came in overnight.

But you have to admit it looks weird. There has never been a “come from behind” win like this before. But at this point all that can be done is throw some ballot stuffers in jail and improve the system for next time. If there was any hanky-panky, I doubt Biden was in on it, although he did act like he had some insider information about how the mail-ins were going to go on

Biden won by over 7 million votes across an array of states. Stop sounding like a total rube. – Garth

There is only one rube here, and ain’t me.
===================================
Is it incomprehensible that in-person votes were counted first and then the mail-in ballots? If we are going to be making up fan fiction, then how about Mr. Trump would have lost by a lot more if he & Putin didn’t stuff the boxes with illegal votes! I just feel it in my bones, so it must be true. There, the osteology is settled!

For those that are a lil’ aloof, my fan fiction is dripping with sarcasm, and above all else, FICTION!