Bad meds

Gobs of media in the last few days about mortgages at .99%.

No wonder. It’s historic. This nation of house-horny colonials has never seen such a number. It stirs loins. It turns pillow talk from cuddles to amortization. We’re smitten. Sign me up.

So let’s dig into this for a few graphs, before turning to you-know-what.

This is an offering by HSBC, the most carnivorous of lenders when it comes to market share. The extreme rate is designed to get attention (done) and attract customers to a bank which would love to also have your RRSP, TFSA and LOC. Mortgages are ‘relationship products.’ They’re the financial equivalent of push-up bras or bicep tats. Who can resist?

Well, the .99% home loan ain’t for everyone. The rate is variable, which means it can (and will certainly) increase over the next few years. Plus, it’s only for CMHC-insured mortgages on properties with financing of 80% or more (and worth less than $1 million).

If you want a five-year fixed-rate mortgage on a house with more equity (not insured), HSBC will give you a loan at 1.59%. Still ridiculously cheap. And in the last few days CIBC has moved to almost match it, with a 1.49% price on a four-year fixed borrowing.

Why are interest rates so in the ditch?

Because the economy’s in deep trouble. Central banks have pulled out all the stops to counter the effect of that slimy little pathogen. Our guys dropped rates to the lowest-ever level, and have been spending $5 billion a week buying up bonds – increasing the demand for debt, which sustains bond prices and keeps yields depressed. It’s all artificial. If market forces were in control of interest rates, you’d be paying HSBC four times as much to use its money.

The upside of low rates is people forget what a mess we’re in, become aroused and go buy a property they probably don’t need for an inflated price that they could not otherwise afford, from a vendor reaping a windfall. That’s what the central bankers want you to do. They entice borrowing. So as Covid sucks the guts out of airlines, restaurants, retailers, tourism and the service sector, this real estate activity helps mitigate the mess.

But cheap money (naturally) augments debt. Borrowing these days is increasing at the same pace as back in 2017 when a robust economy was thrusting house values higher. But in 2020 the economy has crashed, four million people are still on the dole, almost a million stopped making mortgage payments, the government is awash in red ink and our biggest metropolitan area is in lockdown with a 93% drop in commuter rail ridership. It looks increasingly like temporary job loss may become structural. Four in ten small businesses – the biggest employer – will likely not survive the virus, while widespread WFH is presaging an overall income decline.

Enticement. It’s a dangerous experiment. Now that a mortgage has dipped below 1%, it probably gets worse. Higher house prices. Way more debt. But no more productive economic activity, since we’re all just selling each other properties at ever-higher costs with increased financing. Does that sound sustainable to you?

Nah. Me neither. Every month it gets worse. We will emerge from this eventually with broken governments, higher taxes, less affordable homes, historic family debt levels and, yup, gradually increasing rates.

The way out?

It’s not more Trudeau/Chrystia handouts, even-lower rates or central bank stimulus. This is making stuff worse (even as it plumps investor portfolios). There’s only one door for society. It’s marked ‘Vax.’

Whether they erred or not, politicians turned off the economy to quell social contacts and slow the spread of the virus. Now we have a global economic crisis to go with the health disaster. Our closest neighbour is the epicentre, where millions of people still think wearing a mask is socialism and enslavement (thanks to you-know-who). The next six or eight weeks may be grim.

We will get through it. But only with the vaccines. Otherwise the virus could linger for a generation. Wait and see what a house is worth then – if you can find a buyer. Without herd immunity there’s no recovery. Conditions will worsen. Assets will decline. Income supports will drop. It’s not an option.

Ask yourself: would immunity from this disgusting bug be good for your neighbourhood? Your kids and their school? Your city and downtown? The province and nation? Of course it would. And how do we achieve this? Yup. We get vaxed. All of us. If the outcome is universally beneficial, everyone has a duty to be part of it.

Only a coward, and a selfish one, would ride on the back of this immunity. And this is why no anti-vax comments will be tolerated here.

250 comments ↓

#1 Comrade on 12.06.20 at 12:03 pm

Oh boy! you are going for the record number of deleted posts today!

#2 MDQ on 12.06.20 at 12:03 pm

Why don’t you go and vax yourself?

#3 KNOW IT ALL on 12.06.20 at 12:11 pm

“It’s all artificial.” …. Uh Huh. The corporate-government initiated PONZI Scheme. You finally broke and said it.

“It looks increasingly like temporary job loss may become structural.”…… Yup someone mentioned this 8 months ago. Remember That?

It will be 2 to 3 years before Covid is vanished from the earth. Rolling lockdowns will persist. I am pro-Vax but many of my Canadian and especially American friends are not.

And my American friends scare me because they all have guns – big ones.

This is the lost decade. Just be happy you got to live through and experience it.

#4 Turd World on 12.06.20 at 12:12 pm

What goes up definitely comes down.Canada is in for one hell of a rough ride.The more money they throw at it the worse it will get.

#5 mj on 12.06.20 at 12:19 pm

I knew we would go below 1%, I was expecting it early next year. It came sooner than I thought. The next couple of bank of Canada meetings should be interesting. They don’t want to go negative just yet, but they are talking about dropping the rate very little maybe 0.10

#6 Doug t on 12.06.20 at 12:22 pm

Canada you are so lost – without true leadership and a solid plan we are going to get slaughtered – if you are one of the few who is well off count yourself lucky – it will take decades for this mess to be rectified, if ever – the blind leading the blind is where we are at – I feel for my son and his age group – buckle up, the path ahead is wrought with pain

#7 Leftover on 12.06.20 at 12:28 pm

The best recent comment on this blog was, simply, that if you refuse to get vaccinated then you will be refused health care. Full stop.

That sounds about right.

#8 HUNGRY BEAR on 12.06.20 at 12:29 pm

OH Yee MOTHER NATURE….

For we are just a spec of dust in the universe of infetisimal “Dark Matter”.

However many think they can overcome your greatest furies. Especially those who hold a disproportionate amount of the worlds wealth while so many others are suffering.

Time is better spent enjoying the moment than worrying the future – our future belongs to you Mother Nature and we have NO CONTROL.

#9 Trudeau’s Magic Money Machine on 12.06.20 at 12:31 pm

I’m starting to feel really guilty about what I’ve done……..there’s gonna be some serious inflation.

#10 604Sam on 12.06.20 at 12:35 pm

I think it will be very hard to make everyone take a vaccine. Canada doesn’t have as many window-licking anti vaccers as America does, but there are a few. I work in construction and, anecdotally, about 50% of the guys I work with would refuse to take one. Seriously.

Mandated vaccinations would only bolster the fear. I think the solution lies in vaccine passports. Private businesses denying entry to those people not vaccinated. That’s the only way to achieve herd immunity, make life inconvenient enough for the anti-vac snowflakes that eventually they have to get one.

#11 Alberta Ed on 12.06.20 at 12:36 pm

I remember the polio epidemic as a kid in the 1950s; we were all terrified. The Salk vaccine saved millions of people world-wide. The Covid virus is far less deadly, but when the vaccine arrives no sensible person would say no.

#12 TurnerNation on 12.06.20 at 12:37 pm

Holy shoot today’s blog title dovetails and post I’d already mostly written :)

What’s really going on + What the future might hold
(Using mainstream sources)

– Bank of Canada e-currency. Already developed. Gathering dust. CTV story seemed to hint it would be deployed during a ‘crisis’?

– Facebook e-currency Libra will be launched in Q1. Successor to Bitcoin? A new global currency?
(My experience is that all ‘social media’ and tech all points back a master profile of yourself ,anyway, I will detail in another post. It’s all one big database).

– What’s in the news these days:
*Bankers indebting our country – for our health
*Military to hit our streets – for our health
*Big Pharma to rule our lives – for our health.

Gee for almost 25 years I needed no medical care at all. none. How’d I accomplish this, without bankers/military/pharma intervention?

I’ve wagged here since late March that this is “WW3”.
This Weblog posted a bankers’ comment that we are at war-time spending levels, or to that effect.

What does history show?
– WW2:

Bankers financed it
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush
“the United States seized the bank under the Trading with the Enemy Act…”

Big Pharma (Bayer Monsanto) supplied the Z.B. and more. Source: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/bayer
“the Bayer company was complicit in the crimes of the Third Reich. ”

— Viet Nam conflict:
Big Pharma dosed people up with LSD to keep em docile at home ; Recreational drugs were given to soldiers.
– Dow Chemical and Agent o. defined that conflict

– Gulf War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome
“Exposure to pesticides and pills containing pyridostigmine bromide (used as a pretreatment to protect against nerve agent effects) has been found to be associated with the neurological effects seen in Gulf war syndrome”

So yea tell me what’s new in the world again??

#13 Dr.Tom on 12.06.20 at 12:39 pm

Rates will never normalize. Period . Anyone who still believes this is a fool. Way too much debt in the system.

#14 Winterpeg on 12.06.20 at 12:47 pm

CBC may be criticized for some of their reporting on Covid, but it might be worth a look at a report tonight called “the Big Spend” tonight on CBC which looks into the govt spending during the pandemic.

And yes, get the vaccine.

#15 Doug in London on 12.06.20 at 12:48 pm

Anti vax comments? If anyone doesn’t want the vaccine, fine. Myself and everyone I know (who all have an IQ greater than their shoe size) will GLADLY take your share. I’ll get mine as soon as it’s available here in the Forest City. If it’s available elsewhere first I’ll go there. What if it’s available first in Michigan? If the border’s opened again I’ll be bombing down the 401 or 402 highway at record speed to get there. Maybe that’s why Doug Ford’s government increased the speed limit on the 402 last year.

#16 Cbo on 12.06.20 at 12:51 pm

My wife and I plan on trying for baby number 2 this year.
Why take an additional risk on an untested treatment that hasn’t even considered this cohort or it’s spawn.
Sorry, risk / reward ratio is off on this one.

Ironic you want to bring another child into a world you refuse to help protect. – Garth

#17 CHERRY BLOSSOM on 12.06.20 at 12:52 pm

I have not already said this. This is all new to me. The WHO is considering an Electonic Certificate for anyone who is vaccinated. Bloomberg News is reporting the advent of a Covid Passport. This is supposed to help International Travel. So it remains logical that if you do not get vaccinated and cannot show an E-Certificate you may not board a plane. Your children may not be able to go to school without an E-Certificate. Perhaps we will not be able to into a grocery store and it goes on and on.

#18 Erik on 12.06.20 at 12:58 pm

Do anti-vaxer’s not realize that we live in the healthiest and safest period of human history, in part thanks to vaccines? Polio would still be ravaging our children and communities if it weren’t for the mass vaccinations in the 1950’s. Selfish, ignorant and cowardly only begin the describe the poor character of anyone who is anti-vax.

#19 NSNG on 12.06.20 at 1:02 pm

#7 Leftover on 12.06.20 at 12:28 pm

The best recent comment on this blog was, simply, that if you refuse to get vaccinated then you will be refused health care. Full stop.

That sounds about right.

==================================

Does that mean all the tax dollars taken from me to pay for it will be refunded (plus interest, I’ll take the mastercard rate)?

#20 Cheese on 12.06.20 at 1:08 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC for those interested.

#21 TurnerNation on 12.06.20 at 1:10 pm

“It looks increasingly like temporary job loss may become structural.”
My prediction for months is that the bankers are running this show globally and will force all kinds of things like a UBI, e-currencies and who knows what. It’s moving fast led by T2 and CF. They work for us right?

….
TikTok + social media
This weblog twigged on Tik Tok early on. Late 2019. Got a bad feeling at once. “Tick Tock” usually signals an end or impending doom. Indeed a few months later, March 2020 the Old System was shut down. Bankers full steam ahead with the new one. There seems to be a master online profile on anyone. Evidence:

– Facebook (owns Instagram) has had facial recognition deployed for years. Those 2-3 cameras on your phone are seeing all at all times, watch this:
“This is how much an app on your phone can learn about you – in real-time – if you give it access to your camera.”
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1330561627750592517

– Using the IG website and a laptop, not the app or my phone, I signed up to Instagram this year using my email address. I followed a few busineses that’s it; no photos are posted. At once it suggested three people for me to follow:
A person from another province I sometimes deal with; A co-worker; An immediate family member.

Hold on a sec I had no idea most of them even were on IG. My email is not on Facebook (owned by IG) nor do I ‘like or friend’ anybody online. The communication with them is all via phone/text email.
So how’d IG know I know them & myself?

There’s more: on my laptop I am not signed in to google, and sign out of my email and IG at all times.
I searched a car website for a specific make/model. 10 min later I check my phone, the email app displays an Ad for that exact web site and make model I’d been searching via laptop. Then another Ad for parts for the same car. Points toward a master profile of all actions online.

#22 Steerage Science on 12.06.20 at 1:12 pm

mRNA vaccines are just the coolest idea.. a stunning scientific achievement…. years and years of work… primarily aimed at cancer treatments.. which is way more difficult…. virus way easier….just waiting for such an event to shine

#23 Pandemic my derriere on 12.06.20 at 1:14 pm

I think it will be very hard to make everyone take a vaccine. Canada doesn’t have as many window-licking anti vaccers as America does, but there are a few. I work in construction and, anecdotally, about 50% of the guys I work with would refuse to take one. Seriously.

Mandated vaccinations would only bolster the fear. I think the solution lies in vaccine passports. Private businesses denying entry to those people not vaccinated. That’s the only way to achieve herd immunity, make life inconvenient enough for the anti-vac snowflakes that eventually they have to get one…

_____________________

Dude, u have a serious intellectual challenge, go and get it first, we will wait for 5 years and then we will see…yes vaccine for a pandemic with a 99.98% survival rate…ROTFLMAO

As for business forcing it, u are deluded they will go bankrupt in a couple of months..

#24 Dogman01 on 12.06.20 at 1:15 pm

Bonds

My understand is the Bank of Canada is buying Canadian Debt, this being a flavor of “money printing”.

In normal times Money Printing should increase Inflation and hurt our exchange rates with other currencies (devaluation)

Right now all our peer nations are also money printing so they’re not devaluing much relative to each other.

So that means inflation is coming. Inflation hurts cash and near cash assets that are fixed interest rates, like Cash, GIC’s, and Bonds. Also hurts wages if you can’t get regular raises (and who does now).

But assets rise with Inflation, like House Prices, Equities (maybe gold) etc. At least that is the trick.

So the Rich hold assets so they will not be hurt, it will be Wage earners, GIC holders and Bondholders going down.

I get Bonds for re-balancing (banking the froth of equities) and I get Interest rates will go up, but right now current Bonds have nowhere to go but lose value.
With the Bond market larger than Equities market, will we not see a huge move of Bond money into Equities further crushing Bond ETF’s.

Am I getting this right? Even cash is better.

My Father told me he had a 5 year 9% Provincial Govt Bond once, what’s up with that eh?.

#25 michael on 12.06.20 at 1:18 pm

Re antivaxxers: Bravo Garth. Carry on sir.

#26 johnny on 12.06.20 at 1:18 pm

Soundd like you now expect real estate to go even higher Garth. Curious to know when you think the real estate bubble finally pops?
I am not anti vax but am not thrilled to be taking a vaccine rushed through at warp speed which likely has not been tested properly. Keep in mind that this virus is not a big deal to the vast majority of the population however the response to it has likely caused far more damage.

#27 Stan Brooks on 12.06.20 at 1:19 pm

Interest rates can not be increased. The more debt is piled, the more real economy contracts and rates need to be lowered even further or the whole debt scheme collapses.

Yes, we will see negative nominal rates combined with asset and necessities inflation of 10 % + for quite some time.

Now we know why cryptocurrencies skyrocket. Much more integrity than central bankers.


Way more debt. But no more productive economic activity, since we’re all just selling each other properties at ever-higher costs with increased financing. Does that sound sustainable to you?

Ha, I said that years ago and was laughed at.

There is no economy left in this place except housing and corresponding financial services.

We are in the last phase of terminal cancer-like financial disease that consumes the patient. And oh no, this is not Japan from 3 decades ago.

There is no competitive industry left, oil prices are down the toilet and the fun with the accelerated currency destruction in real time is actually just starting.

Cheers,

#28 Cbo on 12.06.20 at 1:20 pm

Wanting my children to have every controllable advantage I can give them isn’t something one should be shamed for.
If anyone can show me any evidence of this having zero impact on a fetus, I am open to having my mind changed.

Otherwise, not a good look today.

Consideration for family is always a first priority. Who else am I building these portfolios for after I squeeze out what I need?

#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm

Ask yourself: would immunity from this disgusting bug be good for your neighbourhood? Your kids and their school? Your city and downtown? The province and nation? Of course it would. And how do we achieve this? Yup. We get vaxed. All of us. If the outcome is universally beneficial, everyone has a duty to be part of it.

Only a coward, and a selfish one, would ride on the back of this immunity. And this is why no anti-vax comments will be tolerated here.

———————————————————–

Simply brutal rhetoric Garth. Get a grip sir. You are and have always been 100% guilty of labelling anyone and everyone with a valid and factually based opinion that doesn’t match yours as xenophobic, racist, gold bug, brick licker, ignorant and now selfish, cowardly and your new catch phrase “anti-vaxer”. You have now hit the high water mark.

I personally have had plenty of vaccines in my life but I also have grave concerns over these vaccines that were rushed to market with zero liability to drug companies with more than questionable pasts in regards to damaging and deadly side effects of their drugs and vaccines. I am the father of a 7 month old baby girl and have an 82 year old mother none of which you can sympathize with at the moment, so forgive me if I don’t allow people like you to bully me and my family into clamming up and sticking our arms out for a virus that has a 99% + chance of not doing any of us any harm, without more data and independent proof that this is indeed the solution.

Your assertions and demands are ridiculous and dangerous. Have some respect for clear and critical thinking even if it differs from yours. Don’t worry, your precious BS equity markets will be forever propped up by criminal central banks or is that really what you’re worried about here? Is it all about the money and the impending monster market crash on the horizon if we don’t get this unproven, rna altering vaccine into our bodies without question and now?

Go ahead and call me whatever names and ridicule me as much you like. It only proves everything that I just wrote And if you post this push back, take heart, posters like Dolce Vita will come along to kiss up with 8 or 9 posts in 60 minutes to make it all better. Just have the democratic decency to post it.

Your blog right? Your call.

#30 Father’s Daughter on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm

Amen!
Anti-vaxxer selfishly rely on the rest of us to do the right thing. Otherwise, I’m sure they would think twice. Only positive is that it moves the willing closer to our dose. I hope that airplanes schools etc. have no tolerance for no vaccine, so real consequences can be felt. The selfish not welcome!

#31 Underwriting on 12.06.20 at 1:23 pm

I am out here in the burbs and trying to navigate a first time home purchase. On one hand is suggested not to play in the FOMO and get caught up in the inflated prices. Fine, I’m completely comfortable with that. However, its also be said here that the burbs will hold onto their increased prices. So whats worse? Buy now, with a locked in low rate? Or wait and get the house for the same price with a higher rate?
Might be an over simplified question, but am I missing something?

Buy if you need a house and can afford it without gutting your finances or imperiling your family with debt. How is that a hard decision to make? – Garth

#32 looking up on 12.06.20 at 1:31 pm

Just playing devil’s advocate.

If rates stay low real estate goes up. When inflation happens real estate goes up.

Doesn’t that imply that you can’t lose by buying real estate?

#33 Dwilly on 12.06.20 at 1:32 pm

Garth, all due respect man, and your blog so your choice, but there is some stuff in this one that you could do better with.

“Otherwise the virus could linger for a generation” – what, precisely, is this based on? Seriously, I don’t think there is any evidence supporting the idea that, without a vaccine, this continues to affect us all to the same degree for a generation. This is a coronavirus, which shares 80% of its makeup with at least 7 other human coronaviruses that have been with us for ages, and for which humans have been shown to develop long-lasting (if not always permanent) immunity. You are someone that people listen to and I think you can be more responsible than posting stuff like this. (Besides, if the above is not the case, then how will a vaccine work anyway? Except if we need it every year..?)

…which is a nice segue to my second point. This is NOT an “anti-vax” comment. (and I think we can hold ourselves to a higher standard than to resort to labelling each other with such broad decrees)

I believe there’s nothing wrong with thinking, reasoning person raising some very legitimate concerns about the pressures / motives under which these Covid vaccines are being developed. Garth, you are the first to remind us that [email protected], or the nice Edward Jones guy don’t always have *your* best interests at heart (or those of society). Why? Of course because at the end of the day, they are flawed humans like you and I who are motivated by the almighty buck. Are we suggesting now that big Pharma cos, and even doctors, are immune to these pressures? They only have our very best health at heart, right, and would surely never be motivated by profit or financial incentives to rush something, or hide something, or..? Not like those corrupt finance people! They are different! There’s no way Gilead would really like us all to “require” an annual Covid vaccine (from which they profit immensely)? They are just a selfless company doing a public service!

Look, I take vaccines as a rule, and whenever this one comes, I will study it an give it proper attention, then I will make MY OWN decision about what to do. But I will never naively take whatever I am given or sign up before I read the contract, any more than I will walk into RBC is sign up for whatever mutual fund they want without me thinking about it. And I won’t refer to a human who choses differently as a coward.

#34 Stan Brooks on 12.06.20 at 1:36 pm

In Italy they sell houses for 1 euro.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-one-euro-home-buyers/index.html

That is 1 million times less than a shack in GTA.

Cheers,

#35 Peter McLean on 12.06.20 at 1:44 pm

They say in the news that the elderly should get the vaccine first. Shouldn’t younger people who tend to be asymptomatic, and therefore spread the virus more easily, be first to get it?

#36 baloney Sandwitch on 12.06.20 at 1:45 pm

I propose a compulsory tat on the foreheads of vax refusers. This way we know who the selfish coward potential virus hosts are.

#37 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 12.06.20 at 1:52 pm

We have 2 main issues here when it comes to “The vaccine(s)” .
1) The usual us vs. them stance , not everyone who expresses reluctance to try it first and wants to wait a few more months is an anti-vaxer
2) The main issues being buried by the MSM is the incompetence of our past and present leaders to secure national interests like say vaccine manufacturing facilities or protective equipment or their plan to correct it. We are literally flushing down money( our children children’s future) everywhere but still not creating a true department of national security and building factories for stuff we need in order to support national security . It’s time we abandon the naive thinking that other nations will play ball. In order to deal with bullies you need to take a tough stance and build defenses.
Either way getting the vaccine at some point is not debatable and sometimes the rights of the humans race to exist must take precedence.
Common sense is taught so we need to abandon the touchy-feely PC approach and be pragmatic.
I know I will take the vax (even) if it have to fly to China to get it (much cheaper from Vancouver then driving down south and paying US rates I think ) .

#38 Dolce Vita on 12.06.20 at 1:53 pm

All VAX eyes on the UK commencing this Tuesday.

I wish them the BEST of luck for all our sakes to once and for all begin to see S. L. Pathogens behind, out the door and for the human malaise it has caused.

As for Canada you have a tough road to haul in logistics. You can fit about 4 UK’s in BC. They have hundreds of hospitals and the vaccines are transported to them via the Chunnel.

Far cry for what faces Canada in logistics: this thing called the Atlantic Ocean and the IMMENSITY of Canada, 1/2 Continent, measure that any direction and that’s what you get.

But I have FAITH in the Cdn Military. If they are half as good as they were when working with them from private industry on their procurements, they should be able to pull it off.

Fingers crossed this week for the United Kingdom.

Not all happy of course, sour grapes EU embodied in this article by Deutsche Welle which is normally like Bambi – except this time they are incendiary I would say but judge for yourselves (I suspect this has to do with Brexit as well):

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-europe-can-only-beat-coronavirus-together/a-55836485

Got so upset with the Imperial EU Court and their Royal Edict of late December Approval that I tweeted Gov Italia today (PM Conte & Health Minister Speranza) and in as many words told them to sprout a few like the UK did and reminded them that yesterday 682 Italians died from COVID-19.

How many more will die until they begin to vaccinate circa Jan. 23?

The equation is NOT as simple as a start date for vaccination:

1. Vaccine jab one.
2. Wait 15 days.
3. Vaccine jab two.
4. Wait 10 days, should be immune after that.

In reality, Jan. 23 becomes end of February 2021 before immunity begins to be imparted upon the herd.

FWIW

———————–

Generating wealth. Getting back to living.

So close, so very, very close.

#39 calgaryPhantom on 12.06.20 at 1:59 pm

Anyone who refuses to get vax, should be injected with live virus so they get Covid and develop anti bodies.

Let’s see how many people then choose to get the vax.

#40 DLT INC on 12.06.20 at 2:01 pm

1366, 35, 95 MILLION
Those are numbers that make me very sad. The first number is the number of total cases of covid19, the second number is the number of deaths, the third number is the population of that country. The country is Vietnam, right next door to China where it all started. I ask myself How Come? I think our mind set has something to do with it. My understanding is that in Vietnam there were no protestors who defied mask wearing and whoever needed food help got it right away no questions asked. Is our every man for himself attitude killing us? Compassion really seems to be lacking in some circles here. Mask wearing is not primarily for the mask wearer but for others more vulnerable. Don’t people get it? Or do they just not care? Welcome to Selfishland, the land of the Free….. and the dead.

#41 Reality Check on 12.06.20 at 2:08 pm

Just admit it. We are all slaves, we always were and will always be.

#42 Brian Ripley on 12.06.20 at 2:08 pm

The history of real rates over the last 600 years
http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/suprasecular-decline

“By the late 2020s, global short term real rates will have reached permanently negative territory. By the second half of this century, global long-term real rates will have followed.” said Paul Schmelzing, JAN 2020, Bank of England Staff Working Paper No. 845

I added some more charts to the above post thread here:
http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/castrated-by-the-zero-bound

And as I pointed out yesterday when commenting about Housing prices in Calgary, BP is projecting that Peak Oil may have occurred and they project that going forward, 1/3 of the drop in demand for oil will be from “Permanent changes in behavior.”

I mashed up some projection charts from BP’s report and links to all the sources in my post here:
http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/peak-oil-says-bp

…including links to the International Energy Agency November 2020 Fuel Report that projects that “Renewables are set to lead the global electricity sector.”

Cost reductions and sustained policy support are expected to drive strong renewables growth beyond 2022. Despite the challenges emerging from the Covid crisis, the fundamentals of renewable energy expansion have not changed. Solar PV and onshore wind are already the cheapest ways of adding new electricity-generating plants in most countries today. In countries where good resources and cheap financing are available, wind and solar PV plants will challenge existing fossil fuel plants. Solar projects now offer some of the lowest-cost electricity in history. Overall, renewables are set to account for 95% of the net increase in global power capacity through 2025.

Total installed wind and solar PV capacity is on course to surpass natural gas in 2023 and coal in 2024. Solar PV alone accounts for 60% of all renewable capacity additions through 2025, and wind provides another 30%. Driven by further cost declines, annual offshore wind additions are set to surge, accounting for one-fifth of the total wind annual market in 2025. Offshore’s growth moves beyond Europe to new markets such as China and the United States where ample potential remains. The rapid growth of variable renewables around the world calls for increased policy attention to ensure they are securely and cost-effectively integrated into electricity systems.

Welcome to the 21st century.

#43 Dolce Vita on 12.06.20 at 2:09 pm

#23 Pandemic my derriere

The only derrière are your calculations and their hiding behind percentages.

That being your modus operandi, then have a go at these death numbers from the USA in 2017, do not forget to divide by 325.1 million and of course, multiply by your “ROTFLMAO” 100 for percent…come on, have a go and report back to us on the survivability of cancer, heart, dementia, etc. (using your logic):

https://imgur.com/SySksRk

PS:

COVID-19 deaths in the US as of today:

287,825

or

0.088%.

————-

Here you go, 2017 sample calc:

Coronary was 902,270 deaths or 0.28%.

Your logic:

Let’s get rid of Heart Fund, Cancer Society, their research, etc. with such survivable %’s.

—————————–

Quid pro quo.

#44 Mike From Canmore on 12.06.20 at 2:17 pm

I like that our host laments the comment section while posting grade A bait like this.

#45 earthboundmisfit on 12.06.20 at 2:18 pm

The Hot Sauce Blue Cheese bank should be shunned, along with any other products manufactured in China. Stand with Australia. But don’t expect that from the LPC, past or present. And yes, I’m aware it was Harpo that signed the FIPP agreement.

#46 Penny Henny on 12.06.20 at 2:20 pm

Meanwhile here are the home sales in Niagara region.
Year over Year for November

New listings down 1.5%
Number of sales up 20.5%
HPI Benchmark price up 18.9%
Days on Market down 36.2%

#47 Penny Henny on 12.06.20 at 2:22 pm

link
https://www.niagararealtor.ca/sites/default/files/files/November%202020%20full%20stats%20package.pdf

#48 Pete from St. Cesaire on 12.06.20 at 2:23 pm

#30 Father’s Daughter on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm
Amen!
Anti-vaxxer selfishly rely on the rest of us to do the right thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That’s simply illogical. To say that the ‘anti-vaxer’ is “selfishly relying on others” is to say that the anti-vaxer believes in the vaccine; otherwise how could they be “relying on others to do the right thing”? They’re anti-vaxers because they don’t believe in the vaccine. They don’t think that those taking the vax are doing good for themselves nor others. Therefore, they’re not relying on others to carry the weight of responsibility, they see the vax takers as being deluded.

#49 millmech on 12.06.20 at 2:24 pm

Wow, 80% of deaths(78) from COVID in BC this week are in care homes, the other 20%(19) are not listed but a good chance they are from people with compromised immune systems and who should have been sheltered.
I guess this the new normal, living in paralyzing fear ever fall when a new strain of flu comes out.
//www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/318463/Outbreak-declared-after-resident-staff-member-test-positive-at-Penticton-care-home.

#50 dm2 on 12.06.20 at 2:25 pm

Garth, I am smiling. dm2

#51 Tbone on 12.06.20 at 2:32 pm

I have never had a flu shot in my life.
If I get a cold it goes away within a week without meds.
I don’t qualify to be at the front of the line for a vaccine.
I’m ok with that.

#52 Doug in London on 12.06.20 at 2:34 pm

@Erik, post #18:
You are quite right. The problem is in these modern times we’ve gotten complacent. The memory of what it was like in the bad old days of polio, smallpox, and other diseases has been lost. Early this year I saw a documentary show about anti vaccers and thought that we need a good pandemic to smarten us up. It looks like I got that idea wrong, further truth you can’t fix stupidity.

#53 Young one on 12.06.20 at 2:35 pm

I have been saving for 5 years to buy a house, I won’t be getting the Vax , and I’m not selfish. The selfish ones are the boomers and they will always be protected, driving around in $100,000 cars in homes worth twice what they should be worth.

I just want to have a family and plant a garden, I can’t do this without the virus shaking things up some more

#54 Don in London on 12.06.20 at 2:40 pm

we are screwed, debt,debt,debt… I can see 3 or more decades of non-productive economy going forward…

#55 C V on 12.06.20 at 2:41 pm

We will get through it. But only with the vaccines. Otherwise the virus could linger for a generation.
—————————————————————————-

I think we would have herd immunity LONG before a generation, no?

I don’t understand this: Governments/CB’s prop up markets= good. Propping up real estate= bad.

Someone please explain this to me. Here to learn.

#56 Faron on 12.06.20 at 2:43 pm

From yesterday w/re Bezos:

#91 MF
#92 SoggyShorts on 12.05.20 at 11:25 pm
#26 Faron on 12.05.20 at 1:18 pm

Of course Bezos isn’t going to gift his employees any sizeable amount. In fact, that is the precise point of that statistic. The example is a way to frame a few things about yesterday’s topic regarding disparate recovery and widening wealth gaps.

Amazon, under Bezos, his board and the management has actively worked to make it impossible for workers to organize, difficult for them to get permanent full time work and has paid the bare minimum wage to retain workers. It, no doubt, is an upside of Amazon’s COVID growth that there is work for people who want to take those jobs right now. That is great. The point is that by streamlining in the above ways, Amazon has increased its profitability and ALL of that has gone to shareholders, upper management and Bezos himself. NONE of that excess wealth has gone to the workers who continue to make not-much-above minimum wage, working in environments with COVID outbreaks, under extreme pressure to perform and with no job security all-the-while selling garbage inflatable pillows sold at such a high mark-up that vendors can give the worthless pillow away for free to people like Soggy (to put a fine point on it) who then feel like they got a “deal”.

Jeff Bezos’ Mar. to Dec. delta in notional wealth could have been ameliorated through better compensation of his workers. That would have come at a reduced share price (to the extent that P/E matters any more — TSLA says it doesn’t) which would have dinged the stock-holding wealthiest 10%. Scraping that profit back to the workers would have done nothing to reduce Amazon’s market share. In fact, a better compensated workforce might offset a big part of those costs by performing more reliably. Of course, this can’t happen in a system where shareholders dictate how and where and how much profit flows and where workers have zero power to claim any kind of reasonable living wage, security or benefits.

Amazon is the prime example of how cut-throat capitalism leads to ridiculous profitability that only benefits the wealthiest stake holders. And no, saving $4 on a TV does not offset this fact. Not. Even. Close.

And no, it’s not a good thing that you can order and receive goods while still wearing the PJs from the night before. Ever travel? I think many people will agree that one of the best parts of travelling is going to the local marketplace. Sure, it’s a pain and a time sink if you are hurried, but we are humans. We have evolved (no nonplused, we weren’t “created” and the earth is more than 6000 years old) in a social setting to be social animals. You receive untold benefits from walking a marketplace (exercise), bumping into friends (support/companionship), making eye contact, chatting up vendors etc. etc. There’s a reason depression is skyrocketing: isolation. Amazon perfects it. Drones will only make it worse.

Have a nice Sunday.

#57 Young one on 12.06.20 at 2:45 pm

Unless rates go back to a normal level and all these back door Photoshop statement of incomes mortgages get cleaned up ……

Then I will get the Vax

#58 Justin S on 12.06.20 at 2:46 pm

#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm

I don’t understand this irrational fear of the vaccine (and most other things in the world) so many people have. What’s the worst you think could happen?! As another poster mentioned, we’re in the safest and healthiest time in human history. I’ll tell ya one thing – that ain’t thanks to those who deny science, think they know better than the medical community, and chose to forgo vaccines.

I have a 2 year old and 2 month old, and we will all happily receive the vaccine. This isn’t about us – we’re all healthy and would be unaffected by covid. This is about protecting those who WOULD be impacted by covid.

#59 saskatoon on 12.06.20 at 2:47 pm

garth buddy,

how does someone who has chosen not to get the vaccine endanger an individual who has decided to get injected?

after all, aren’t they protected now?

and if they aren’t really protected, what is the point of the vaccine in the first place?

#60 Buy? Curious? on 12.06.20 at 2:56 pm

Garth, the reason why I’m not a freedom fighter is because I’m too comfortable. However, if the government took away my right, to par-tay, I’d fight for that right. Sometimes, we wake up late for school and you don’t want to go. Like when in west Philadelphia, born and raised, it would the playground that I spent most of my days, chilling and relaxing. Until these guys, who were up to no good, started making trouble in the neighbourhood. I got into one little fight and my mom got scared! She said, “you’re moving in with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air!”

#61 Thomas on 12.06.20 at 3:00 pm

Garth, I have already tested positive for COVID19, so I am already immune. Whould you force me to take the vaccine, still?

#62 Steven Rowlandson on 12.06.20 at 3:02 pm

“Why are interest rates so in the ditch?

Because the economy’s in deep trouble.”

Actually the governments are in deep trouble with their massive debts. If they had to pay a proper interest rate they might have either a double deficit or a need to print as an alternative to borrowing.
Other borrowers are expendable but not the government.

#63 down and out on 12.06.20 at 3:07 pm

Interesting blog views on vaccine, here’s my take in a world where we have seen VAXes save many lives, but we have also endured governments with no concern about future debts, news media taking sides in elections, some manufacturers not caring about products or workers .LTC homes being dysfunctional, endless wars and a communist country whether carelessness or a mistake in a release of the virus with no punishment for not warning the world how can you expect the average Canuck to just raise his sleeve and believe the vaccine is a safe cure to a return to some normalcy. Yes I have no choice but to get a shot(old man) but I can understand how some have had enough of the government that thinks it knows what is best for us at least they could try to assure us first before talk of vaccine ID cards and punishing fines. We all know and what to save the masses from more hurt and death but to hear Trudeau and others talking about what a chance for a RESET is just scary taking advantage of a crisis.

#64 Truth Sayer on 12.06.20 at 3:12 pm

Mandated vaccinations would only bolster the fear. I think the solution lies in vaccine passports. Private businesses denying entry to those people not vaccinated. That’s the only way to achieve herd immunity, make life inconvenient enough for the anti-vac snowflakes that eventually they have to get one.
_______________________________________________

Oh please. This would be nirvana for me and many others. Ordering in every day… Meals and groceries delivered. Working from home. Amazon at my beck and call for anything I could possibly want or imagine.
Sure, I don’t mind if you stop my health coverage as long as your mindset is applied across the board… As long as you do it for all those people who drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, ride motorcycles and cars carelessly or when distracted, don’t exercise or eat unhealthy food…

Did I miss anyone?

Oh, and if I decide that at some point that the vaccine is safe for me, I would gladly get it.

• Respectful, wide-ranging discussion on the topic of the posting is encouraged, and will NOT be censored

#65 The HT on 12.06.20 at 3:16 pm

I respect you Garth, but I think you lack respect for those who distrust large pharmaceutical companies, and the process of getting drugs approved. Have you researched this topic much? Add in the haste and desperation, and there’s legitimate reason to be at least a little worried.

I will not be allowing my 4 year old kid to get the vaccine, at least not until a year or two after the masses get it. Call me coward, that’s fine – being a parent is more important.

And how about the parents of the children your child may infect? Does your cowardice or selfishness abrogate their rights? Or what if the parents of all 4-year-olds think as you, and none are protected? – Garth

#66 Steven Rowlandson on 12.06.20 at 3:16 pm

Garth you might be surprised at how many tell the government where to shove their vaccines.

#67 Strangers in the night on 12.06.20 at 3:19 pm

#59 saskatoon on 12.06.20 at 2:47 pm
garth buddy,

how does someone who has chosen not to get the vaccine endanger an individual who has decided to get injected?

after all, aren’t they protected now?

and if they aren’t really protected, what is the point of the vaccine in the first place?

_______________________________________

Come on, man! Don’t you know you are supposed to follow the narrative! Asking questions like that will only beg a vitriol from ol SleepyShorts. Mark my words!

You might as well have asked about the benefits of testing.

#68 Out Of Work CEO, Will Travel on 12.06.20 at 3:29 pm

People forget Polio and how it crippled kids and adults alike. I am getting the vaccine for me and others around me but mostly for me cause I am selfish and want to live longer and make more money.

#69 MF on 12.06.20 at 3:43 pm

#58 Justin S on 12.06.20 at 2:46

Agreed. We can thank vaccines (and modern medicine) for helping eradicate some of the most viscious viral threats humans had faced for millions of years of our existence.

I think the anti vaccine movement is a disparate mismash of people from many groups: paranoid conspiracy theorists are the obvious, but there are also people who are afraid of general authority or medical procedures, and then the uneducated.

That being said, and this is important, the history of vaccines does have some hiccups. There a many who are scared to take an experimental, rushed, unproven vaccine right away. They aren’t necessarily anti vaccine.

MF

#70 espressobob on 12.06.20 at 3:43 pm

#59 Saskatoon

Your wires are crossed to say the least. Not choosing to be jabbed heightens the possibility of you becoming a super spreader. Screw everyone else and it’s all about you?

I wouldn’t discount the seriousness of the situation. Just take a good look at some of the state’s in the US with positivity rates around 50% and overloaded ICUs.

Sounds like fun being on a ventilator.

#71 Freedom First on 12.06.20 at 3:46 pm

#59 saskatoon

Post of the day
——————————————————————-

Post 2019 thinking is now fubar….
——————————————————————-

Freedom First

#72 Barb on 12.06.20 at 3:51 pm

“…broken governments, higher taxes, less affordable homes, historic family debt levels and, yup, gradually increasing rates.”

——————————————–

Thinking of T2 and CF, the broken government part is appealing.

#73 Flop... on 12.06.20 at 3:52 pm

Boss, that’s quite the project you signed up for on your Instagram feed.

I see potential of multiple income streams though….if you allow some movie company to shoot a couple of horror flicks in there before you restore it.

Don’t you think it would have been cheaper to just get a rescue dog and name it Floppy…

M46BC

#74 Proud Anti-Waxer on 12.06.20 at 3:53 pm

Getting a wax is ridiculous, expensive and unnecessary.

And don’t even get me started about those millenial idiots going for their ‘male Brazilian’ wax jobs!
Pure nutso!

Ummm…hope I have the right blog…?

#75 Blobby on 12.06.20 at 3:55 pm

@59 & 67

– Spot the people who paid no attention in Biology class at school (probably too busy drawing moustache’s on the sperm in the text book).

… I could go on about how vaccines work, the 10% of the 90% effectiveness, and how, if selfish cowardly people dont get vaccines – viruses will keep spreading and mutate rendering vaccines useless.

But something tells me, that if it’s not on a youtube video from some guy who claims to be “a science”, with lots of pretty pictures – they wont listen.

#76 Don in London on 12.06.20 at 3:57 pm

any thoughts on “pre-loaded stimulus”, interesting…, why there are so many idiots run our government, finance?

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ottawa-eyes-pre-loaded-stimulus-in-canadians-savings-accounts-1.1531766

#77 Diamond Dog on 12.06.20 at 3:58 pm

We will get through it. But only with the vaccines. Otherwise the virus could linger for a generation. Wait and see what a house is worth then – if you can find a buyer. Without herd immunity there’s no recovery. Conditions will worsen. Assets will decline. Income supports will drop. It’s not an option. – Garth

It’s not that black and white, Garth. I would agree with you if China wasn’t virus free. Or Taiwan. Or Hong Kong. or Singapore. Or New Zealand. Or Australia. Or South Korea. Or to a degree Japan (they have an outbreak in the North now). But the facts are that we have at least 7 of 8 of the top 10 most educated nations in the world that are free of this virus… with no vaccines or herd immunity. We are talking about 1.6 billion people on the planet living free of this virus and we can do this here, even now, with the seeded numbers we see here in Canada. Lets not kid ourselves, we are educated enough. With the right leadership its still possible, we could be there in 3 months.

Yup, just 3 months,but we don’t have the leadership or the experience. People get the economic consequences, they know economic mess were in, we’re more ready to do whats needed than we think we know, most of us. Here’s the problem with that. We don’t have the leadership with the right messaging.

In China, leadership is singular and unopposed. All it takes is the right nerd with the Emperor’s ear and you get what we see in China now. In Canada, because of the systems of government, you would need most of the leaders of all parties federal and provincial to come together on this and the cut throat want and so called need to make each other look bad, the hyper partisanship, it’s corrosive. I can think of a few right who would not do what’s right in service to themselves at everyone else’s expense regardless of how good leadership was from the PM. Not easy, but not impossible.

So, the lack of experience and leadership being what it is in Canada and the Trump effect has, unless Trudeau somehow wakes up, his nuts drop and he rises to the challenge (don’t have my hopes up), its down to vaccines.

Here’s the the problem with vaccines. We only really know what we are being told. What have we been told on longevity? NOTHING! Not a f thing and it’s huge! We’ve been told that Moderna has 92% efficacy based on who? Moderna. 11 cases. Non peer viewed. Both Moderna and Pfizer using participants light on skin color with trials void of geographic information. Did I mention 10 times yet how Covid19 infects, sickens and kills people of color at a much higher rate? Have I mentioned that people in area’s of high sea food consumption have lower rates of infection? Lets do it again:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-covid-19-data-1.5669091

This so called pathetic blog is likely the only blog or media outlet that has someone connecting the dots on region and immune system deficiencies (seafoods with ample Vitamin D and Zinc sources). Btw, you can all bet your asses Moderna and Pfizer know it:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Why does Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire and Hawaii have such low cases? Same with Eastern Canada, why are they so lucky? Because they eat sea food. Check the numbers on the map and overlay them with populations:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/tracking-every-case-of-covid-19-in-canada-1.4852102

I will wash, rinse and repeat. Zinc deficiencies are modeled at 25% globally. Vitamin D deficiencies and sub-deficiencies in winter, 42% among whites, 60 to 70% among Latinos and 80 to 85% among blacks. Immune systems are compromised in a deficient state with Vit D and Zinc specifically. Lower white blood cell counts should be our first clue.

Tying this all back to Vaccine trials, Moderna and Pfizer can tell us whatever they like within certain market expectations (70% in the real world) and get away with it, with hundreds of millions if not billions of vaccines pre-bought for $25 ave a pop driven out of need and hope. Small trials, non peer viewed, using geography and skin color to their advantage for FDA approval, my point is not to expect efficacy to be off the charts on these vaccines. 70% is more realistic and 80% would be gravy, do readers follow?

Lets recap. 1.6 billion people are living in a virus free zone, but we lack the experience and leadership to follow the successful models used in China, South Korea etc. here at home. We’ve got vaccines coming but we don’t know their longevity, we have a market driven guideline of what to expect for efficacy that is self interest and profit driven and we think its safe in the short and long but it’s not yet conclusive.

Vaccines are the only option? Not that black and white. Even herd immunity as the only option is not that black and white! (A mutation that proliferates can change everything) Once again… 1.6 billion people on this planet are living free of this virus without herd immunity!

But, since Canadians like electing inexperienced, flawed leaders… it may just be what we end up with. Or can hope for, if this virus doesn’t mutate and if that’s our shitty reality because real leaders can’t or won’t step up, then our only option is vaccines and the only thing we can collectively do as a country from there is to take vaccines and get the participation rate as high as possible. Roll it out quickly to high risk groups first, learn more about these vaccines as we go and when we’ve got enough doses to poke the masses, consider mandatory vaccines for adults. It’s either this, or shore up deficiencies this virus is praying on (several more trials are underway with Vit D as we speak) or swallow our pride, go with the experience and successful models and go Chinese on this virus. Or all three! Or none and face the dire economic consequences. 384 billion (and counting) deficit this year, did anyone enjoy that? (anarchists need not reply)

Which is the easiest? Likely taking a couple vaccine shots with a slice of lime. Is it the most guaranteed for one and all? Nope. But, we can also take vitamin D and Zinc (you’re safe up to 4,000 IU’s a day, I take 2K and Zinc every few days with copper, 25mgs and 2mg copper), its not that hard. What China did over 3 months to get virus was difficult but lets wake up here, its not any more difficult than what we are going through right now. It’s going to be a long and expensive 4.5 months before things start warming up in Canada…. y’know?

#78 Faron on 12.06.20 at 4:03 pm

#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm

First thanks, Garth, for taking a reasonable stance w/re the vaccine and our moral duty to others. This virus is revealing the cracks of the latter in many of us. I guess it’s natural for folks like huh? to flee to the security of our nuclear bubbles when the SHTF. This follows our instinct for tribalism and the security of the concrete and tangible, but that’s not what’s needed here. Outside of climate change, it really hasn’t been since WWII that such a demand has been placed on our society to act for a common good.

As for you huh?. Clear and critical? How old is your mother again? Yeah, thought so. Maybe look up some numbers. And Garth, ripped abs and cut biceps and all ain’t no spring chicken. Seems he has plenty of personal grounds for his argument even though he chose to only point out the societally and mutually beneficial aspects. 99%+ chance of no harm? That’s cute.

Kudos to Garth for letting your post pass and letting you hang yourself out there like a naked king. And, no, I’m not a blind Garth supporter. To the extent he reads what I write, there has been ample mutual irritation and rancour.

#79 Chimingin on 12.06.20 at 4:07 pm

#53, yeah, you’re selfish, you are. And whiny. Grow up.

#80 Sheesh on 12.06.20 at 4:09 pm

#16 Cbo on 12.06.20 at 12:51 pm
My wife and I plan on trying for baby number 2 this year.
Why take an additional risk on an untested treatment that hasn’t even considered this cohort or it’s spawn.
Sorry, risk / reward ratio is off on this one.
——-
You may be interested to know that one of the potential long term effects of covid infection is male infertility.

#81 majik on 12.06.20 at 4:11 pm

It is reasonable to expexct many people will be cautious of these vaccines that were developed in record time. Indeed oddly enough the vaccines with new mRNA technology somehow finish development first but the traditional type vaccines being developed by Sanofi and Janssen are still in Phase 3.

But we are now going to call people who have legitimate concerns about the safety of the fastest ever developed vaccines cowards? That’s a bit out of order considering it was these same cautious folk who have been willingly social distancing, washing hands and reducing their social contacts for the last 9 months.

#82 Blog Dog D on 12.06.20 at 4:14 pm

It’s interesting to see the various perspectives on getting vaccinated. The vaccine is really important – it will save the lives of those who are vulnerable, it will get the virus transmission rate to a very low level and it will keep the hospital visits to a low level.

What’s interesting is people’s perspectives on this. Firstly, I am all “up to date” on my shots. I travel(led) a lot – visit the travel clinic at least once a year, have a yellow card full of stamps – etc. However – I have never taken a flu shot, never been sick and generally not had any issue with disease or sickness. I am also not opposed to getting my COVID vaccine – I likely will get it in January and February – through some Moderna connections I have. That being said – if getting this vaccine was not about to make my life better by finally being able to get out of this 5-star resort we call “Switzerland” then I would not line up take it. There is not any reason other than that – I generally don’t get the flu shot.

I see getting COVID vaccinated as a bit different than simple flu – but I just would not be the first – If I did not need to get it I would likely wait 6-9 months and then if there was a need for me to take it for “society’s benefit” – I would do it – but if the whole pandemic fizzled out – I would be happy if it happened even if I did not get a vaccine.

The Vaccine is seriously important – this has to get implemented without delay – with the right prioritization – however forcing it on low-risk (i.e. younger) groups is not necessarily the answer – but I could see if differently if this thing just does not go away by next September because of a group of people who refuse – I just don’t think we will end up at that point.

#83 George S on 12.06.20 at 4:15 pm

Didn’t ultra low floating mortgage rates get a lot of Americans in trouble back in 2006 and 7? weren’t they called “balloon mortgages” or something like that?
At least we aren’t hearing “but it is different this time”

and..

#59 Saskatoon:

You need to read up on the concept of “herd immunity”. If the number of vaccinated people falls below a certain percentage of the population, different for every disease, then the disease is not controlled as well and people, even vaccinated ones, can still get the disease.

Not getting a vaccine for a disease is a selfish disregard for the well being of others. That is it, plain and simple. Same as not wearing a mask when required by the public health people. A simple selfish disregard for the well being of others.

The lockdowns and restrictions are put in place to prevent overloading the health care system with people with C19 on respirators and in the ICUs so that when someone has some sort of other disease or medical problem they can get treatment for it. It is not to be annoying to alt right believers.

The medical establishment has been making vaccines for a few hundred years now. They have it figured out. Every year there is a different influenza vaccine with no or almost no problems. Because governments often require vaccination there is a vaccine injury compensation board that reviews all the cases of vaccine damage to people. It doesn’t find fault with vaccines very often, unlike the court system which awards bizarre settlements with essentially no evidence.

#84 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 4:20 pm

#78 Faron on 12.06.20 at 4:03 pm
#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm

First thanks, Garth, for taking a reasonable stance w/re the vaccine and our moral duty to others. This virus is revealing the cracks of the latter in many of us. I guess it’s natural for folks like huh? to flee to the security of our nuclear bubbles when the SHTF. This follows our instinct for tribalism and the security of the concrete and tangible, but that’s not what’s needed here. Outside of climate change, it really hasn’t been since WWII that such a demand has been placed on our society to act for a common good.

As for you huh?. Clear and critical? How old is your mother again? Yeah, thought so. Maybe look up some numbers. And Garth, ripped abs and cut biceps and all ain’t no spring chicken. Seems he has plenty of personal grounds for his argument even though he chose to only point out the societally and mutually beneficial aspects. 99%+ chance of no harm? That’s cute.

Kudos to Garth for letting your post pass and letting you hang yourself out there like a naked king. And, no, I’m not a blind Garth supporter. To the extent he reads what I write, there has been ample mutual irritation and rancour.

————————

Faron there is some brown on your nose that you may want to wash off.

#85 SOS on 12.06.20 at 4:24 pm

Garth I think you’re using ad hoc reasoning, or some other fallacy. People who don’t want a Covid vaccine are selfish. That’s your story and you’re sticking to it. Maybe some people think our country would be better off if we did not react to Covid with such an abundance of precaution. Maybe we have been put in a position where getting a vaccine is the only “unselfish” option, but what about all the reasoning in the middle where decisions were made that led us to where we are? And why do you get to define what it is to be selfish?

#86 Linda on 12.06.20 at 4:24 pm

Have no issue with being vaccinated, though I’m aware that it may be some time yet before we can get one. So what happens if there are delays? Will that possibly lead to even more insanely low rates to stir the borrowing masses? Have to say if I were in the market to purchase rates like these would likely seal the deal. Get thee behind me, HSBC:)

#87 Do we have all the facts on 12.06.20 at 4:27 pm

Don’t forget that average disposable income in Canada increased by more than 10% since March. A weak economy and yet average disposable income and savings experienced a substantial increase.

Is it possible that our governments might have been just a little more generous than necessary?

Is anyone keeping track of just how much of the $381 billion was required to compensate for lost wages or earnings and how much contributed to the substantial increase in disposable income and savings as recorded by Statistics Canada?

Just curious.

#88 Dmitry on 12.06.20 at 4:32 pm

Financial system is built as privatized gains and socialized losses. Vaccination turns it upside down by offering privatized losses for the sake of socialized gains. Only an idiot would be against vaccines. Of course having your neighbours vaccinated with every possible vaccine is good for you.

Saying that people are selfish when they refuse to vaccinate and encourage others is mischaracterization. Genuinely selfish people will not vaccinate but actively encourage others to vaccinate. Only confused people will advocate against vaccination.

More importantly it is naive to think that current destructive policies will stop just because it becomes clear that there is no virus threat, whether it is due to immunity or other reasons, and whether this immunity is acquired naturally or artificially.

What is going on is not caused by response to a virus. Previous finance minister quit not because he was against virus-fighting measures.

The root cause of this mess is that large portion of population likes free lunch. Handouts is what people will vote for if you invite them to the polls. Canada will get what majority of Canadian population deserves. And virus has nothing to do with this- it is just shaking things up allowing the country to move faster alongside the vector than has been chosen by the majority. This is democracy in action, and it will take some serious first hand pain before this turns around.

#89 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 4:32 pm

#58 Justin S on 12.06.20 at 2:46 pm
#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm

I don’t understand this irrational fear of the vaccine (and most other things in the world) so many people have. What’s the worst you think could happen?! As another poster mentioned, we’re in the safest and healthiest time in human history. I’ll tell ya one thing – that ain’t thanks to those who deny science, think they know better than the medical community, and chose to forgo vaccines.

I have a 2 year old and 2 month old, and we will all happily receive the vaccine. This isn’t about us – we’re all healthy and would be unaffected by covid. This is about protecting those who WOULD be impacted by covid.

——————————–

Then by all means Justin, place you and your family 1st in line, you are free to do so and I won’t label you an idiot, coward or pro vaxxer. Trust governments and drug companies until your heart’s content, I say that genuinely.

Just don’t ram it down every one else’s throat.

#90 Brett in Calgary on 12.06.20 at 4:32 pm

There is so much hope pinned on this vaccine – it had better not fail. Let’s see if CBC tracks as diligently any (hopefully none) adverse outcomes from the vaccine, as they do from the disease.

We know the adverse outcomes of Covid. Ten thousand dead Canadians. – Garth

#91 Gracie on 12.06.20 at 4:37 pm

DELETED

#92 saskatoon on 12.06.20 at 4:38 pm

#70 espressobob
#83 George S

Sooooo, the vaccine won’t really work.

Gotcha.

#93 Cbo on 12.06.20 at 4:40 pm

@sheesh
Thank you if legitimate. This is something I will further investigate, but if you have a credible source I would appreciate the overture of a link.
For context, I received a Flu shot last week and my daughter is up to date on her shots. Not exactly anti-vax by any means.
I stated we are ‘trying’ because baby number one took 14 months of effort to conceive naturally.
Why add an anomaly to the equation at this early stage. Show me 18 months of no side effects and I’ll be there.
When there is more data, there will be further consideration. Erring on the side of caution temporarily is not selfish. It’s measured.

#94 Bigtuna on 12.06.20 at 4:41 pm

«Does that seem sustainable to you?»

Yes, please see Toronto and Vancouver

#95 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 4:41 pm

DELETED

#96 Faron on 12.06.20 at 4:44 pm

#84 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 4:20 pm

#78 Faron on 12.06.20 at 4:03 pm
#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm

————————

Faron there is some brown on your nose that you may want to wash off.

Substantive. But thanks for reposting my rejoinder in full so people can read it again. I’ve learned at least one thing from Trump…

#97 MF on 12.06.20 at 4:44 pm

77 Diamond Dog on 12.06.20 at 3:58 pm

I would be very cautious about believing any statistics on the virus from a large chunk of those countries.

This virus is a real threat, but it has also been heavily politicized.

1.6 billion people (the vast majority in highly dense population centers) and zero cases? Zero cases of a virus that is highly infectious?

Really?

MF

#98 Drinking on 12.06.20 at 4:45 pm

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry with the state that we are in. Record low mortgage rates and idiots (anti maskers) that, even though it is within their constitutional rights go out and protest just for the sake of making a point, “WHAT POINT”? Killing others???

Yes, I get it, we must protect out rights but at the same time be responsible citizens to the elderly who helped built this great country, they are being the hardest hit and worked there asses off to have what you have!!

Spare me the effing (they had it so good), there is no comparison to what we have now to what they went through. Damn these idiots piss me off; get a shot or not, could care less, just stay away from me and my family, if you decide not to (your right) and come around and endanger our families, then expect exactly what you deserve!!!

I Understand the concern; I will not be the first to sign up for it; fortunately other countries are ahead of us, if it proves effective then it is no different then getting the Polio, Pox, or other vaccine’s. Wait and see, but in the mean time for Christ sake be responsible until we figure this out; enough with this b.s. anti mask crap!!!!

#99 Leichendiener on 12.06.20 at 4:58 pm

Yes, the mRNA is a 21st century vaccine, a real break with the past. Their current downside is the temperature at which they have to be stored. In Winnipeg they could be simply placed outside.

#100 espressobob on 12.06.20 at 5:00 pm

#92 Saskatoon

I’m sure your anecdotal viewpoints outweigh epidemiologists that work tirelessly round the clock to provide safe vaccines?

The real problem worse than covid are individuals who think they are experts on a subject they don’t even study.

Funny how that ends up…

#101 The Woosh on 12.06.20 at 5:07 pm

Enticement. It’s a dangerous experiment. Now that a mortgage has dipped below 1%, it probably gets worse. Higher house prices. Way more debt. But no more productive economic activity, since we’re all just selling each other properties at ever-higher costs with increased financing. Does that sound sustainable to you?

———————————————

Sure you’re talking about real estate…sounds more and more like Bitcoin. Or does Bitcoin sound like real estate. Hmmm…

#102 I’m not a doc on 12.06.20 at 5:09 pm

What’s all the fuss about? With the great efficiency of this vaccine from not one, two or three drug dealers, I think we surpassed 10 now supplying the pipeline for boosters many years to come…

Anyways, point being those at the front of the line rolling up their sleeves for this little pin prick will be forever protected… those at the back of the line, way back will drop just dead

#103 Arcticfox on 12.06.20 at 5:10 pm

“What country increased its debt by 170% in 12 years and expanded its money supply 4 fold in the same time frame?
No, it’s not Zimbabwe.
This is America!”

“78% of all US M1 money supply has been created since 2008”

Above credited to Sven Henrich

Maybe this is explains upward trajectory of $Cad/Us regardless of Canada’s COVID response..

#104 Dmitry on 12.06.20 at 5:10 pm

#77 Diamond Dog,

please be careful with zinc. You can have too much of it and it could be bad for you. The correct approach is not to gobble up things that can poison you but to test your blood and act according to results. Both vitamin D and zinc can be tested easily and repeatedly. And it is pretty easy to overdose on zinc.

Seafood is great, but mercury is not a fun thing to overload your body with. Luckily mercury can be tested as well using same blood draw.

You can tolerate much higher doses of vitamin D than 4000 IUs. Your body can make 20000 UIs daily from sun exposure and if you don’t wash immediately under being exposed most of it is getting absorbed. But I would not advise going crazy with vitamin D just because you can. Do lab work and then decide what level of supplementation is appropriate for you. Also one time or short term overdose of vitamin D is much better tolerated and prolonged overdose- this is where things start becoming dangerous.

Another important aspect of vitamin D is its metabolism. It goes via liver and then kidneys. It takes about a week for it to metabolize, so if you need a rapid boost in vitamin D it is done in hospitals using a different form that does not need metabolization by the liver. This means you need vitamin D in advance, not when you are already sick. Also things like fructose can affect what your vitamin D intake (natural or supplemented) metabolizes into, which means you might not get required active vitamin D saturation even with supplementation if you have your metabolism screwed up by your diet. Exercise and intake of certain substances found in foods like garlic and broccoli will counteract impact of fructose on misdirecting vitamin D metabolism.

So pretty simple active lifestyle exposed to sun with healthy diet and avoidance of unhealthy diet based in corn syrup will keep you in good shape in terms of active vitamin D. And if in doubt, do modest supplementation or better yet do some blood work.

#105 Dogman01 on 12.06.20 at 5:11 pm

Garth ; Parents are self-centered via design, it is evolutionary.
I once sat in a vehicle repair shop and the Lady I was speaking with mentioned she got the biggest vehicle possible for her son as he is such a reckless driver and she does not want him to get hurt.

Contemplating this I drove off in my Kia.

#106 Cici on 12.06.20 at 5:17 pm

#19 NSNG
#7 Leftover on 12.06.20 at 12:28 pm

The best recent comment on this blog was, simply, that if you refuse to get vaccinated then you will be refused health care. Full stop.

That sounds about right.

==================================

Does that mean all the tax dollars taken from me to pay for it will be refunded (plus interest, I’ll take the mastercard rate)?

==================================

Nope. It means you’ll have to pay out-of-pocket for the healthcare costs of everyone you’ve knowingly infected… but yes, at the MasterCard rate!

#107 "NUTS" on 12.06.20 at 5:23 pm

What is fascinating to me is the same people who are claiming science is a farce and refusing a vaccine are the first who will find their way into a hospital when seriously ill. Of course, because that very science they oppose is likely going to save their life. Same principle for the masks. I suppose the anti-maskers would be perfectly fine with themselves or a loved one going into open-heart surgery with none of the doctors or attendants wearing a mask. Right . . . doubt it. And before anyone attempts to say “it’s not the same thing”, it is.

#108 Long-Time Lurker on 12.06.20 at 5:30 pm

>I wonder if the Wuhan Coronavirus is mutating into a less lethal form. It seems to be changing. I wonder if W.C. will disappear on it’s own like the Spanish Flu of 1918 did?

Covid-19 virus type has changed since June, says expert in Pune
Namrata Devikar

Hindustan Times
December 4, 2020

The scientist emeritus at the National Centre for Cell Sciences (NCCS) Dr Yogesh Shouche made a key observation on Covid-19 during a webinar on Friday.

According to Dr Shouche, the Covid virus type detected in June and July earlier this year in various states is different than the 20B type found now.

He was talking on, “Changing nature and current status of Covid-19″ during the curtain-raiser for the India International Science Festival (IISF 2020) organised by NCCS online.

“In June and July as per our studies, in Nashik, Pune and Satara districts there were four different types. However, now, we have seen only 20B. As we stepped into unlock there was only 20B found,” said Dr Shouche.

He further said that the second wave of Covid-19 has affected many countries and that infectious diseases have multiple waves.

“The same is with Covid-19. We have to yet understand how severe Covid-19 will be during the second wave. However, we are surer now, of the treatment modality,” said Dr Shouche. He further said that the virus may affect differently now.

“There are changes in the virus. Also, the virus may behave differently in different types of weather for the second wave. We can see throughout the world that the cases are increasing. Italy, Germany and Russia have witnessed the second wave. The numbers have reduced now,” said Dr Shouche….

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/covid-19-virus-type-has-changed-since-june-says-expert-in-pune/ar-BB1bECsz

#109 Handsome Ned on 12.06.20 at 5:39 pm

I am more frightened by some of the posters on this blog than the virus. Some of you would make excellent Stasi, Kgb, Red guards, Gestapo, and even Einsatzgruppen. Kicking my door down would be a bad idea however.

#110 yvr_lurker on 12.06.20 at 5:44 pm

Will of course take the vaccine when it becomes available, and I do have significant trust in the leading scientists who came up with the technique. However, it make me worry a bit about the lack of long-term data on the vaccine and perhaps the integrity with which it is now ramped up in mass production (i.e. contamination, not the right temperature, other logistics…). But as I see it there is no normal for a long long time unless we have a little leap of faith. I hope that they have it right, all the way from the recipe to the production details, as otherwise if something goes a little haywire the legions of anti-vaxers are going to explode.

#111 Guelph Guru on 12.06.20 at 5:45 pm

Vaccine is good, but hopefully the pandemic proves to be a wake up call for all of us. We have gotten away this time by printing oodles of money. Ideally this should have been our savings and not borrowing from the future.
So here is Prosperity 101:
Prosperity and Wealth = Income – Expense.
We cannot spend more than what we earn. This is true for a household. It’s true for the entire Country.
Who will teach this to our beloved Mr. T? Volunteers?

#112 TOM BLACK on 12.06.20 at 5:59 pm

DELETED

#113 Howard on 12.06.20 at 6:02 pm

#7 Leftover on 12.06.20 at 12:28 pm
The best recent comment on this blog was, simply, that if you refuse to get vaccinated then you will be refused health care. Full stop.

That sounds about right.

———————————–

I could name numerous unsavoury 20th century leaders who would approve of your proposal.

Frankly, I think people who pay zero net tax – 40% of the population – should be refused free healthcare.

#114 DON on 12.06.20 at 6:08 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fraser-valley-churches-continue-to-congregate-despite-b-c-public-health-orders-not-to-1.5830636

**************

Geezus…

And we wonder why the Fraser Region in the BC lower mainland is a COVID hot spot. Not the only reason but one of the most perplexing and entitled.

#115 Mark on 12.06.20 at 6:10 pm

Why are you, and or anyone else worried about a vaccine???
Unless your Heath care worker or senior over70 you ain’t getting vaxed even if you want it.
Trudeau has guaranteed and f$#+&d all this up.
Canada as usual so far out in center field can’t even see us.

#116 David Greene on 12.06.20 at 6:11 pm

How do I….er…where does one even start with this.
So, you have absolute faith in authority? I believe that system has a name and you won’t like living in it. :-)

Yyou truly believe that anyone who has conventional training and experience in some field of intellect or profession is generally always competent and beyond reproach?

So-called experts are often wrong about all kinds of things. It’s called life.

I take it you’re a Trudeau fan, then. Because acccordinfg to your logic, having attained the job and with years of experience he must be great at the job, right?

I mean, according to your logic, you’re not prime minister, so what right do you have to criticize his work, right?

Yes, I can already hear you saying “but medicine is peer-reviewed”. Go back and study what that means and maybe you’ll understand why it’s largely meaningless. The “peer-reviewed” experts all have almost the same training. Not much help when you need a true second opinion.

Go Google recent quotes from the conversation betweeen the editors of two leading medical journals, in which they both agreed a vast proportion of their journals’ articles amounted largely to fraud.

Part of what helped get us to this degree of incompetency among experts is the blind faith we put in them.

Seriously, people….doctors, nurses, scientists, are just people, with same foibles as any other people. We need to stop worshipping them.

#100 espressobob on 12.06.20 at 5:00 pm

#92 Saskatoon

I’m sure your anecdotal viewpoints outweigh epidemiologists that work tirelessly round the clock to provide safe vaccines?

The real problem worse than covid are individuals who think they are experts on a subject they don’t even study.

Funny how that ends up…

#117 Howard on 12.06.20 at 6:11 pm

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#118 Howard on 12.06.20 at 6:17 pm

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#119 Diamond Dog on 12.06.20 at 6:19 pm

Readers may be wondering (I would), “what did China do to become a virus free nation?” And Taiwan. And Hong Kong. And South Korea. And Singapore. And Australia. And New Zealand. And Japan. 8 of the top 10 best systems of education in the world (Finland and Canada, yes Canada, also made the cut), what did these nations do to be virus free?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/03/asia/pisa-rankings-2019-intl-hnk/index.html

Outside of obvious border and air passenger restrictions (quarantines) They used cel phone apps alerting the masses of where infected cases are, and they used temp guns like this:

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1eYVjapzsK1Rjy1Xbq6xOaFXaQ/Infrared-Forehead-Body-Thermometer-Baby-Adult-Digital-Thermometer-Gun-Non-contact-Body-Temperature-Measurement-Meter-WT3652.jpg

China used these temp guns to scan the temps of everyone entering stores, banks, places of worship and gatherings, subways etc. and they used these guns in conjunction with the cel phone app like this one, modeled off of Singapore’s version (I think):

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/covidalert

The difference with China is, it was mandatory. So, lets say you get scanned and ran a temp, automatic quarantine for a week and head home right away, don’t deviate from the path (and govy will know, cel’s have GPS trackers, making sure yours was turned on before you left). Your name is registered on the cel app and a govy official comes to your residence and confirms Covid one way or anther and if confirmed, the address and close relatives are tested and quarantined for 2 weeks and the infected individual is monitored with contact tracing from there.

Lets remind, China had 6 cities with a thousand or more cases of community spread and they stamped it out. Why? They modeled asymptomatic people at 18% (South Korea, 20%. At the potentially politicized Trump era CDC, in July modeled @ 24%). Of this asymptomatic percentage of infected, China modeled asymptomatic spread at 1.5%. Through contact test and trace, the Chinese found no cases of asymptomatic to asymptomatic spread, not one case and as one would expect in a Chinese communist govy, contact test and trace was diligent. If one takes 1.5% x 1.5%, its 2.25 in 10,000 cases, less if you take 20% asymptomatic into account with these numbers and like I said, China didn’t find any cases of asymptomatic to asymptomatic spread, not 1 case in 83k of reported cases.

That doesn’t square well with the hyper sensationalized “asymptomatic spread” spreading the virus beyond our control in North America, now does it. It’s not a question.

With these numbers, you can eradicate this virus within borders anywhere in the world within 3 months but you have to use temp guns to weed out people showing symptoms (more than 9 in 10 symptomatics will run a fever as they begin to shed the virus). In short, its a numbers game and the odds favor the house. (mutations could change all that, but recent aggregate studies and trials suggest this hasn’t happened)

When’s the last time your temp was scanned walking into a mall or a supermarket or Walmart? Walmart is quick to greet you with the $2 sale of a mask if you don’t have one, but with the chance of ferreting out more than 9 in 10 who are symptomatic running a temp, most not even knowing it, what are mall mart greeters doing? Is this too challenging? What is anyone doing? No one is scanning for temps. Nobody, not even at airports as far as I know.

I bought a temp gun from China through Amazon a couple months back for $17 bucks, delivered in 3 weeks. Low volume retail like hair dressers can still scan anyone at the door and if high volume retail whines, Jason Kenney for example is quick to hire 700 Covid19 cops to enforce his rules (like China), we can afford to subsidize:

https://medicinehatnews.com/news/provincial-news/2020/11/27/alberta-adds-700-enforcers-to-stop-covid19-rulebreakers-as-hospitalizations-climb/

Now to be fair, in China, cel ownership is at 62.5% of the gen pop whereas in Canada, its less than 40% (last I looked in the spring). They also have a cashless, card less system where everything is paid with a PR code on their phones. Even so… the mere use of temp guns where people gather especially out of necessity will take more than 9 of 10 symptomatic cases off the streets. So, why aren’t we doing it?

By the way, there are no excuses for this. We could make excuses when there were mask and temp gun shortages in early spring, but not now. Cel apps are up if people want to use them and there’s part of the problem right there. Canada, for whatever reason, prefers 384 Billion dollar deficits and complacency resting everyone’s hopes on a vaccine that could under deliver as opposed to a mandatory cel app and the use of temp guns (results when China did this btw, were immediate in the dead of winter). Same can be said with vaccines being mandatory, (although its premature to have the conversation of mandatory vaccines, their safety and efficacy in high risk groups will help the argument for mandatory later on).

No one likes the use of the word “mandatory”, but this is a health crisis. We should have gotten over infringement on our freedoms months ago, or maybe we should get rid of all the other laws designed to protect us like seat belts and licencing and let kids smoke cigarettes and just “devolve”.

People are finally warming up to mandatory masks but some had to be shamed into it and even now, its badly politicized (its spillover is here too with protests in BC and Manitoba). Why does it take 384 billion dollar fed deficits though, to see the light? We can’t sacrifice some small freedoms and rights to keep ourselves from endangering others never mind ourselves during a pandemic? C’mon.

The site below illustrates which states don’t have mask mandates for example, where stay at home and partial business closures are (helps one get a bead on just how disastrous Q4 and Q1 will be). There are still 9 states that have no mask restrictions in the U.S. 8 of 9 states are above the national average of confirmed cases and they are all Republican (politicized):

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/states-reopen-map-coronavirus.html

Are we much better? We are, only if we compare ourselves with arguably the worst nation in the world in how it’s handled this pandemic. If we compared ourselves to the best, we wouldn’t be averaging 6,000 cases a day in Canada with not so surprising Alberta now leading the charge and we sure as f wouldn’t be running $384 billion dollar deficits.

#120 Pete on 12.06.20 at 6:25 pm

I think our government folk simply don’t care about what’s about to happen. The 99% at the bottom can eat cake.

#121 Alberta Boy on 12.06.20 at 6:28 pm

People need not worry about sticking a needle in their 4 year olds anytime soon. Children will be the absolute last priority. I am firmly in the “vaccines make the world a better place” camp but people shouting down and shaming those who have concerns about this particular roll out can stuff it too.

#122 Howard on 12.06.20 at 6:32 pm

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#123 mike on 12.06.20 at 6:33 pm

I’m not an anti-vaxer and I’ve taken my share of vaccines through my life. However I’m hesitant and reluctant taking the COVID vacine in current state of affairs.

I believe I have a solution to make people like me trust the policy makers and willingly take the shot. Lets our leaders, politicians, medical advisors, CEOs and shareholders of all pharmaceutical companies producing the vaccine + their immediate family including spouses, children and parents take the shot first in an independent clinic (to make sure they get inoculated with the vaccine served to public and not with glycerin or distilled water. Also, making the pharma liable would help to shift public perception of the subject matter.

#124 Hilroy on 12.06.20 at 6:43 pm

Why isn’t Britain sharing the vaccine? I though we were part of a Commonwealth ? When we have something they need it’s a Commonwealth – when they have something we need we’re suddenly a Sovereign Free Market Democracy.
If the our Queen is going to take the jab , why do we have to wait for other approval?

#125 Diamond Dog on 12.06.20 at 6:45 pm

#104 Dmitry on 12.06.20 at 5:10 pm

Like I said, I take 25mg’s plus 2mgs copper every few days or so, I’m not religious with it. The reason for copper is, if the body has excess Zinc, copper flushes it out and then can lead to a copper deficiency. Same holds true with copper (too much copper depletes Zinc). With Vitamin D the studies and trials I’ve looked into pre and post pandemic have indicated the formation of kidney stones. Vitamin D as the majority might know (and forgot :) is good for Rickets and Osteoporosis. Vitamin D re-balances mineral deposits in your bones getting rid of excess deposits. As these minerals re-enter the blood and pass through the system, they can form stones so there is, like anything, a limit to what we can take. Sure, an individual can cross the line but I wouldn’t advise it. Vitamin D deficiencies are common as pointed out earlier, as well as Zinc. It’s not difficult to find ourselves short (especially as seniors, I might add) so it’s better to low dose.

I appreciate your advice, its sound, I liked your take on Vit D absorption, there’s a product called Calcifediol that is absorbed immediately:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcifediol

Without question in my mind, any and all confirmed Covid19 cases should be given Calcifediol, amounts to be determined by blood serum levels (plus Zinc/Copper, 225mg tabs over 5 days, plus 16 grams of Copper 14:1 exchange) as soon as they test positive. I’m still waiting for officials to get with it. The trial below suggests excellent success. It’s a pilot trial, but with numbers significant enough to move on (and I believe there are +1,000 participant trials underway as a followup):

https://www.ippmedia.com/en/features/first-clinical-trial-support-vitamin-d-therapy-covid-19

#126 the Jaguar on 12.06.20 at 6:48 pm

@#17 CHERRY BLOSSOM on 12.06.20 at 12:52 pm

I’m intrigued. What’s an ‘Electronic Certificate’ look like. Or a ‘Covid Passport? Wouldn’t both become easy targets of all these diabolical types out there who create fraudulent documents for all sorts of nefarious purposes? You know, like Ernst Stavro Blofeld, The Joker, or my personal favourite Lex Luthor, criminal mastermind.
Pretty sure Dominion Voting Systems Corporation would be tangled up in it as well. And let’s throw OSFI in the mix just for entertainment purposes.

How about just a small micro chip planted somewhere discretely on ‘one’s person’. I backed up against a fence once and was attacked by a rusty protruding nail, so I know just the place for mine.

I’m not sure what all the hulabaloo is about over vaccinations. I’ve had all the routine ones and some boosters. Had a flu shot early fall. The way I see it you have to put your trust in science and medicine. Life’s too short and too beautiful to spend all your days and nights cowering in a bunker, wringing your hands and living in fear of the unknown. It’s not a game of slow pitch. You need to go at it with your fastball. Mercy.

#127 bob the fin on 12.06.20 at 6:50 pm

My wife and I plan on trying for baby number 2 this year.
Why take an additional risk on an untested treatment that hasn’t even considered this cohort or it’s spawn.
Sorry, risk / reward ratio is off on this one.

Ironic you want to bring another child into a world you refuse to help protect. – Garth
Not playing fair Garth! and you know it!

#128 espressobob on 12.06.20 at 6:54 pm

#109 Diamond Dog

Own a professional temp gun long before covid. Damn thing was costly.

Currently use the laser on this device to play with my cat.

She loves it.

#129 Nonplused on 12.06.20 at 6:56 pm

“All of us. If the outcome is universally beneficial, everyone has a duty to be part of it.”

I don’t see why some people think it’s a big deal. We vax our kids, our dogs, our cats, our livestock. Many people get a flu jab every year. It’s just part of life.

I’d me more worried about “murder hornets” if I lived in the pacific northwest. Those suckers can kill you.

#130 the Jaguar on 12.06.20 at 6:58 pm

Excellent interview on Youtube with Douglas Murray if any of the want to hear what a sensible person thinks….
(Spoiler warning: Lefty Progressive types may wish to stay away or keep smelling salts at the ready….)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp4XhZytdD0

#131 MF on 12.06.20 at 7:00 pm

9 Diamond Dog on 12.06.20 at 6:19 pm

I still caution anyone from blindly believing some of the statistics out there.

Think of it like this. If a country tests no one for covid, how many cases will they have? Zero.

Are they a shining example of what to do to prevent outbreaks? Of course not.

How about now we remember the East German swim team in the Olympics from a few decades ago. Won tons of competitions. Was it because they were superior in their training? Were east Germans a product of a clearly superior sporting culture? Not really.

Like i said earlier, this virus is a serious issue and like all serious issues, it has been politicized. Scanners at Wal Mart don’t mean anything.

1.6 billion people with zero cases sure sounds like quite a feat though..

MF

#132 Apocalypse2020 on 12.06.20 at 7:02 pm

“The next six or eight weeks may be grim.”

I only wish I could be half as positive as our host.

Sadly, that is not possible. ‘Grim’ is just the beginning. That will be a forgotten dream by next week.

“This is going to be a nightmare, …..”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/israel-urges-citizens-to-avoid-gulf-cites-iran-threat-1.5216796

Israel, with its Trump-loving Netanyahu, will be in full confrontation with Iran shortly.

The US leadership with Trump and Barr will be delighted to jump aboard the war train. Martial law, denial of election results, and war. Perfect.

Unitary Executive Theory in full force. Barr and Trump believe deeply in it. What’s that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE63HmOYGps

And Russia, NK and China are licking their chops, ready to dive in with warships and nukes to redefine Europe and the South China Sea.

While Giuliani comes down with Covid, probably soon to be blamed on Deep State actors, and yet another reason for Trump to rush ahead and seize control.

https://www.businessinsider.com/stone-calls-for-trump-to-declare-martial-law-election-loss-2020-9

Do you have any fuel to keep your urban home livable if you survive into February?

Another reason to leave major centres, well before Christmas.

PREPARE

#133 DON on 12.06.20 at 7:05 pm

Diamond Dog has many interesting points.

Vaccinnes seafood. Ocean breeze…salt.

Salt kills bacteria. Hygene is the key component.

Vit D, C and Zinc are good supplements and execercise is a necessity.

Grow light bulb in your kitchen etc can help also.

#134 Sheesh on 12.06.20 at 7:07 pm

#93 Cbo on 12.06.20 at 4:40 pm
I’m not judging, I have reservations as well, but there is no such thing as 100% risk free. I’ll be getting it when I can though, because the sooner things get back to normal, the better.
Small sized study, obviously more work is required:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30348-5/fulltext

#135 espressobob on 12.06.20 at 7:19 pm

#116 David Greene

Any trade requires a great deal of study.

I have a bad toothache, I go to my dentist. Maybe need a root canal and cap, DO IT!.

A fierce pain in my side, go to the hospital, find out its a kidney stone… ouch.

Like I have any understanding of these areas of study? Nope.

Leave that to those that do. Let them do their job.

#136 Keen Reader on 12.06.20 at 7:21 pm

All vaccines are equally good, those who get them are good people, the others are knuckle-draggers without concerns for anyone else… Got it, thanks for the education! I’ll decide in due time if this new mRNA stuff earns its place in the long list in my vaccination booklet, both from a personal and community perspective. Let’s discuss the facts, instead of poo-pooing…

#137 Tulips on 12.06.20 at 7:22 pm

If you want a five-year fixed-rate mortgage on a house with more equity (not insured), HSBC will give you a loan at 1.59%. Still ridiculously cheap.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I see 5 year uninsured fixed rates closer to 1.99%. Are there any special conditions to get a 1.59% fixed rate?

#138 Drinking on 12.06.20 at 7:23 pm

#123 mike

I am with you 100%; just cannot stand all those who risk lives; especially the elderly, so they can have beer or dinner without caring of what is the “Possibly” unto to others???? It is only a short time until we know, until then let us just stay safe especially for our elders and all the front line workers, what is so hard about that??? Ask our elders that went through the world wars!!!

#139 Diamond Dog on 12.06.20 at 7:32 pm

#97 MF on 12.06.20 at 4:44 pm

I would be very cautious about believing any statistics on the virus from a large chunk of those countries. – MF

Me too. That’s why I looked for videos of U.S. expats in China/Taiwan/Hong Kong with videos to see if the masses for example, were wearing masks in May and beyond. Economic numbers, anything to suggest the contrary to the reported numbers. I didn’t see anything to suggest the numbers weren’t real. To believe that there is a conspiracy with 8 nations and 1.6 billion people with Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand, it gets hard to rationalize.

This virus is a real threat, but it has also been heavily politicized. – MF

Yep. And caused heavy damage.

1.6 billion people (the vast majority in highly dense population centers) and zero cases? Zero cases of a virus that is highly infectious? Really? – MF

Not zero: today, they are at 18 cases in China but enough to say virus free. To be fair with China’s early numbers, we’ll never really know the true extent of the epidemic numbers from Wuhan. Same goes with their prisons, they came out early with PR on that one and said they won’t report cases from their prison systems. The total numbers from earlier in the year could be hundreds of thousands higher for all we know, but what I’m saying about China being virus free still stands.

Covid19 symptomatic fever accompanies more than 9 in 10 cases. If you use temp guns wherever people gather, you would likely remove the vast majority of symptomatic cases off the streets without the use of cel apps in a nation like our own. We have idiots here, but most of us are responsible with something like this.

Asymptomatic spread of the virus, if the number of asymptomatic spread is truly 1.5% and 20% of the gen pop is asymptomatic as China says (I don’t question this, the WHO Canadian point man for us back in the spring didn’t either), then .3% of the asymptomatic population is spreading the virus. If you take the number .3% and times it by .3%, you get 9 in 100,000 people spreading from asymptomatic to asymptomatic. Statistically, this is not a significant risk when the use of temp guns and cel apps simply take out the rest.

My main worry for virus free nations is complacency and of course, failure to keep it that way. South Korea reported 635 cases today:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/

Singapore, 5. Japan, 2424. Australia, 9. New Zealand, 0.

It’s well worth monitoring the reported numbers of these nations in case vaccines have more than hiccups or this virus mutates enough to reinfect those with immunity (from vaccine or infection). If, for whatever reason vaccines crap out, the world needs to have a plan B.

#140 Brian on 12.06.20 at 7:35 pm

Time to update that debt-to-income ratio of 450% then?

#141 Steerage Insanity on 12.06.20 at 7:47 pm

#132 DON on 12.06.20 at 7:05 pm

Diamond Dog has many interesting points.

Vaccinnes seafood. Ocean breeze…salt.

Salt kills bacteria. Hygene is the key component.

Vit D, C and Zinc are good supplements and execercise is a necessity.

Grow light bulb in your kitchen etc can help also.

….
It’s not a bacteria…but I did read somewhere that injecting bleach does the trick….

#142 Jake on 12.06.20 at 7:48 pm

Anti-vaxers will pay the ultimate price in the end.

#143 CL on 12.06.20 at 7:50 pm

You’re a smart guy, Garth. And what you say makes sense and I agree with your commentary but, this is Canada. They have kept the real estate party going for a long long time and it will continue.

There is no economic crisis. I still get up in the morning, go out, see people living their lives fighting to get in to Costco, Walmart, Best Buy, Starbucks (but that is a necessity of life so it is understandable), Tim Hortons, McD’s….on and on it goes. Rates are going nowhere. They should, but they won’t.

I do not see this economic crisis anywhere I go especially in the arrogant crap service I still receive from typical Canadian businesses.

I went to buy take out on my way home this aft. I asked for a menu and they said “oh we close at 4:30” …..a restaurant, crying that they are suffering, closing at 4:30. It was 4:20. So I said good luck and left. Other businesses are not taking cash…what a dumb decision. So I say casually it’s ok, your competition next door is.

Are they “really” suffering as much as is being talked about? I don’t see it. Anywhere. And if they are suffering, that is bad business destined for failure. So let them suffer. The good ones will survive. There is only one restaurant I go to that is constantly busy. Everyday. A Pita/Shawarma restaurant owned and operated by a nice Lebanese family. The food is great, they work very very hard, and the service is spectacular. Those are the kinds of businesses that I support and there is a reason that they are not only surviving, but thriving. The rest can go quietly in to the night and new ones will be re-born.

#144 Drill Baby Drill on 12.06.20 at 7:54 pm

I know a train wreck when i see it and Canada we are headed for one. Here we are relying on an incompetent federal government to purchase and supply a vaccine which we need but the provinces must distribute it equitably. Oh vey.

#145 Drinking on 12.06.20 at 7:58 pm

I am not a big fan of CBC but there investigational part is not bad! What do you all think about this?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/air-canada-492-million-in-wage-subsidy-covid-19-1.5824950

#146 Ordinary Blog Dog on 12.06.20 at 7:59 pm

Sure. Drag it on longer. Stop masking, stop social distancing … don’t take the vaccine. The longer we do this selfish behaviour the longer the CV-19 hangs around. And as it hangs around … business in the country is stunted by intermittent starts and stops, hot spots of CV-19 pop up here and there, debt and mayhem continues, restrictions go on and off. Or, everyone take the vaccine and it all stops here. I can envision the ‘vaccine validation passport’ being issued …. advantaging those who get the vaccine and confirmation chit …. travel, work, shopping … etc., all to the holders. I will get my passport as soon as I can.

#147 Outrage on 12.06.20 at 8:01 pm

Canadians all know that interest rates will likely come down and they should. In Europe you can get a mortgage under .We deserve this rate too. We will all get vaxed, what could go wrong with a 95% success rate by one of companies !Good times for 2021 !!

#148 Kurt on 12.06.20 at 8:03 pm

#29 Huh

“. I am the father of a 7 month old baby girl and have an 82 year old mother none of which you can sympathize with at the moment, so forgive me if I don’t allow people like you to bully me and my family into clamming up and sticking our arms out for a virus that has a 99% + chance of not doing any of us any harm, without more data and independent proof that this is indeed the solution.”

I assume your mother is part of your family. Death rate for 80+ is 17.4% (from here: https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm). Go ahead, get your mother killed.

#149 yvroptimist on 12.06.20 at 8:09 pm

@ #22 Turner Nation – not sure if anyone has said this, but your phone and your computer display an ip address. That is how you are tracked. It doesn’t know who you are, but it knows where you are and what you’re looking for, no matter how often you clear your cache or reboot your computer.

Get a VPN. Make it appear that you are from any country. Watch how things change on your search results and the like. It’s astonishing.

#150 WIN not Lose on 12.06.20 at 8:11 pm

This is not an antivax rant.
Over 100 comments and no one with personal experience of a negative vaccine reaction.
1979:
Margaret Thatcher becomes UK PM
Steelers beat Dallas in Super Bowl XIII
Montreal beats NewYork to win 4th Stanley Cup
Joe Clark becomes Canada’s 16th PM
Dukes of Hazard debut
NHL merges with WHA
Disco music (ABBA) arrives in time to fill the first CD from Phillips
A young family (Mom, Dad and daughter) rejoice in the arrival of a perfectly formed brother and son weighing 10 lbs 3 oz.
The first 4 months are a whirlwind of excitement and joy.
All growth and intellectual metrics are met.
Then the first vaccination. At a health clinic.
Within 2 hours the child becomes unresponsive.
Fear, Panic, set in.
An unresponsive family doctor.The family doctor doesn’t return calls.
The boy lapses into a 48 hour coma.
The mother had no doubt this was caused by the vaccine.
The family calls other doctors.
Yes, two doctors confirm that is a typical (though not universal) reaction to a vaccination.They point to the vaccine and give international verification of negative vaccine reactions.
Interaction between various vaccine ingredients have been demonstrated to have debilitating and far-reaching results.
Can you say autism?
Upon waking from the coma, the child has become totally different.
His response to stimuli is erratic. His natural and growing physical skills have been interrupted.

For the last 41 years we have struggled to help a developmentally delayed young man become an almost fully functioning adult.

How does one measure the emotional toll of a faulty vaccination?

The joy our son has provided is inestimable!

In some areas, sports knowledge, computer skills, sports activities (football, baseball, hockey, skateboarding, snowboarding) he is a savant.

In emotional wisdom, not so much.

My point of this comment is that the effects of faulty vaccinations has a lifetime of debilitating effects.

Please be considerate of those who live with negative vaccination results on a daily basis.

Sorry for your experience. But that was 40 years ago. In the last eight months 12,661 Canadians have died of this virus. It has to stop. – Garth

#151 Truth be told on 12.06.20 at 8:13 pm

There’s more: on my laptop I am not signed in to google, and sign out of my email and IG at all times.
I searched a car website for a specific make/model. 10 min later I check my phone, the email app displays an Ad for that exact web site and make model I’d been searching via laptop. Then another Ad for parts for the same car. Points toward a master profile of all actions online.

_______________________________________________

Easy to explain… the internet was able to determine a common pattern coming from multiple locations… Low gamma/high beta brain waves.. Incoherent ramblings… And a penchant for verbosity beyond that of a 4 year old on his birthday! Case solved!

#152 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.06.20 at 8:13 pm

Diamond Dog:
A few more posts and then you can submit your book to the publisher.

#153 Faron on 12.06.20 at 8:16 pm

#32 looking up on 12.06.20 at 1:31 pm

Just playing devil’s advocate.

If rates stay low real estate goes up. When inflation happens real estate goes up.

Doesn’t that imply that you can’t lose by buying real estate?

No.

When inflation starts to rear up, rates will climb (possibly rapidly) and buyers able to afford a massive mortgage in addition to more expensive things will become scarce. Demand drops, price drops.

This hasn’t played out yet in Canada as rates have been low for more than a decade and demand has been high due to growing population and international recognition of Canadian RE being a rock of an investment.

Recent thinking is that inflation will take off when M2 and stimulus begin to find their ways into the hands of those who will spend the $ in the real economy (not houses, not equities) when gov’ts begin to print to pay for their ageing population’s social security/CPP that now have huge shortfalls (social sec. namely).

#154 PastThePeak on 12.06.20 at 8:20 pm

It is unfortunate that our host continues to conflate “anti-vaxxers” [those that refuse to take vaccinations for any reason] and those who are concerned about the absolutely (no debate) rushed development of the SARS-Cov-2 vaccines, especially the two leading ones which use a completely novel mechanism (mRNA).

I plan on getting the vaccine in due time, but am in no rush to do so. I want to see more data, as would any thinking person who is not in a high risk category.

And please spare me a lecture – I happily wear a mask where it is required, take vitamin D & zinc every day, stay mostly home, avoid crowds, and do my part (including paying bucket loads of income tax….).

Not good enough. – Garth

#155 John in Mtl on 12.06.20 at 8:20 pm

DELETED

#156 Dog Breath on 12.06.20 at 8:23 pm

“..And this is why no anti-vax comments will be tolerated here.”
——————————————————————
What is going on? We were once a society that valued and cherished free speech. Now censorship has become part of the norm in current society. OK, censorship has always be at the heart of the CBC, but then Twitter and Facebook has embraced it. But now The Greater Fool, say it ain’t so Joe (Garth), says it ain’t so!!

Deciding not to donate my blog space to anti-vax whackadoodles is not censorship. It is enlightened editing. Oh, along with social responsibility and ethical citizenship. – Garth

#157 Tedfifty on 12.06.20 at 8:23 pm

#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm.
Why are you even on this blog? It’s for
People seeking investment advice. Not for folks who appear to think it’s pointless. Surely there are other places you can hang out with like minded people.

#158 Stan Brooks on 12.06.20 at 8:32 pm

It seems everyone is very interested in the well being of the baby boomers, the age group mostly impacted by the virus, while carrying very little about the well being of the young impacted much worse by the failed monetary policies, loss of jobs and very bad economic prospects.

If I was one of them I wouldn’t give a flying f… about the well being of a generation that had it undeservedly great at the expense of past and future generations.

It is not just class but also generational warfare.
Would baby boomers pay voluntarily tax on their undeservedly good life style and untaxed property gains? Are they coward and lairs for not doing that?

Integrity and responsibly goes both ways.

One can not only demand without giving, without making concessions himself.

We are out of people who can keep paying the taxes, the bills while carrying everyone else on their shoulders going forward. The more we insist on continuing the same failed policies, the more these people will leave for a better pastures leaving us with the likes of T2 his band of ‘experts’.

Cheers,

#159 down and out on 12.06.20 at 8:41 pm

DELETED

#160 willworkforpickles on 12.06.20 at 8:43 pm

If ever there were the prospect for adverse effects with consequences, look to MMT for them.
Modern Monetary Theory is the employ of money creation used to finance government spending while ignoring the flaw in that the country can print it’s own currency and won’t ever become insolvent…

No to that they say, because it will pay the interest on its own debts to infinity with more turnover as needed.

In turn, the false belief the country will not ever default prevails…. But it may.

Debt in the form of government issued bonds are considered secure and can and have been issued at lower interest rates…lower than all other forms of securities.
The flaw with MMT rests with the deadly monster that lay in wait years down the road…We are now years down the road.
I’ve lost count in how many times and in how many ways I’ve gone over it how the MMt employ of QE is indeed different this time and will have a vastly different and adverse effect going forward than from the results its had in the last decade.
Quantitative easing used to buy up gov. issued bonds vastly increased the money supply in the past decade.
That mass liquid infusion spurred investment and spending as it made borrowing easy with subsequent lower interest rates and kept businesses and industry humming and unemployment levels low throughout the artificial fix.
The debt monster grew over the years and will not go away. The monster is much larger and a lot hungrier.

How is it all different now (this time)?

Unemployment… Harsh Systemic Unemployment.

And low low interest rates this time are not culminating in business growth and the subsequent increased production needed to stave off the increasing negative after effects of current gov. monetary expansion.

The new liquidity/cash, soon to be floating amongst a greatly indebted highly unemployed and largely unproductive population will lead to inflationary pressure’s the extent to which rates will have to be jacked and the debt monster set free that will make our world/s indeed… just a little bit different… this time.

#161 millmech on 12.06.20 at 8:52 pm

DELETED

#162 Tron Light on 12.06.20 at 9:00 pm

We are looking to vaccinate for a virus that approximately only 3% of the population will get and of which 99.7% will survive.

Over 140,000 Canadians were infected in November. A hundred have died since Thursday. Not enough for you? – Garth

#163 Garth's Son Drake on 12.06.20 at 9:18 pm

Does not matter if you are for or against it.

Although not mandatory, good luck being able to work or travel without one.

It used to be no shoes no service. 2021 will be no vax no service. Proof by passport.

#164 SOMETHINGS UP!! on 12.06.20 at 9:20 pm

The President’s own LAWYER wont wear a mask or social distance

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/12/06/giuliani-coronavirus-atlanta-georgia-dec-3-ranney-sot-vpx.cnn

The VIRUS will be here to stay for a long time!!

Keep the borders closed and the guards at bay.

#165 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 9:25 pm

#157 Tedfifty on 12.06.20 at 8:23 pm
#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm.
Why are you even on this blog? It’s for
People seeking investment advice. Not for folks who appear to think it’s pointless. Surely there are other places you can hang out with like minded people.

—————————————————

Uh did you read today’s post? Or did your need help with the big words? Having trouble connecting my comment to what Garth posted? No vaccine for that unfortunately.

#166 Fortune500 on 12.06.20 at 9:25 pm

Nice Garth! Get the vaccine people. We may be a fiscally conservative bunch but we aren’t knuckle draggers here.

#167 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 9:34 pm

DELETED

#168 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.06.20 at 9:39 pm

If the amount of “deleted” are any indication of the percentage of people who wont be getting vaccinated when it finally becomes available……………. yikes.

#169 whiplash on 12.06.20 at 9:42 pm

#148 Kurt
I assume your mother is part of your family. Death rate for 80+ is 17.4%. Go ahead, get your mother killed.

Mother-in-law is 84 and tested positive for Covid. Is she dead, no. Ended up in the hospital, no. Mild symtoms sore throat, and a bit tired for about 4 days. Posted this earlier, power shakes spinach/carrot juice etc. regular multi vitamin + extra D3/vitamin C. How is she doing? Awesome, it was a non event. And is she getting vaccinated ?No.

#170 Steven Rowlandson on 12.06.20 at 9:44 pm

DELETED

#171 Dataclysm on 12.06.20 at 9:46 pm

DELETED

#172 Job#1 on 12.06.20 at 9:49 pm

#100 esspressobob

Epidemiologists don’t “work” on vaccines.

Talk about “…individuals who think they are experts on a subject they don’t even study.”

#173 Ministry of Truth on 12.06.20 at 9:53 pm

#12 TurnerNation on 12.06.20 at 12:37 pm
..10 min later I check my phone, the email app displays an Ad for that exact web site and make model I’d been searching via laptop…
—-

Use ‘VPN’ -OR-, ‘no-VPN and Tails’ -AND/OR- Tor browser, Don’t use Google search, use anonymous search engines for privacy like startpage or ducduckgo. Any search/post you submit has your IP therefore geo-location and more with association…

#174 Tron Light on 12.06.20 at 9:53 pm

“Over 140,000 Canadians were infected in November. A hundred have died since Thursday. Not enough for you? – Garth”

I’m certainly not downplaying any deaths and yes, there are over 12,000 and will be more unfortunately, however, in 2018, over 8500 died of the flu in Canada. Interestingly, over 7 million people are infected by the flu in Canada annually. Also interestingly, there is no flu this year.

So, yes, deaths are above average but the number of people infected will be nowhere near 7 million.

And how many people have died of other causes during that time? How many died of cancer? Or heart attack?

#175 Gary C on 12.06.20 at 10:02 pm

What scares me more than Covid, is Trudeau & Freeland.
On Saturday Freeland said the government can borrow more as long as interest rates are low, and we will implement handrails”without bolts”.
The parliamentary budget officer can’t sleep at night because he is not being informed where the money is being spent, yet a finance minister does not see it as a problem.
Perhaps the government needs a vaccine to control their addiction to spending “other people’s money”

#176 the jaguar on 12.06.20 at 10:07 pm

On the ‘Telly’ this evening: Her Majesty The Queen and Prince Phillip will receive the vaccine.
COURAGE. CLASS. DUTY.
Not to mention balls the size of grapefruits. Him, not her☺. What an inspiration to the world.

#177 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 10:11 pm

#169 whiplash on 12.06.20 at 9:42 pm
#148 Kurt
I assume your mother is part of your family. Death rate for 80+ is 17.4%. Go ahead, get your mother killed.

Mother-in-law is 84 and tested positive for Covid. Is she dead, no. Ended up in the hospital, no. Mild symtoms sore throat, and a bit tired for about 4 days. Posted this earlier, power shakes spinach/carrot juice etc. regular multi vitamin + extra D3/vitamin C. How is she doing? Awesome, it was a non event. And is she getting vaccinated ?No.

—————————————

Thanks whiplash, Garth deleted my response to Kurt’s dramatic comment.

Deaths should never be taken lightly at any age but when I’m 84, years past my life expectancy, and given an 83% chance of experiencing fantastic recovery your mother-in-law went through, that would be the best news I could hope for that late in life. If this vaccine truly proves to be safe, with no long term side effects and increases that 83% survival rate in the 80+ demographic and all others of course, then that would be a blessing indeed. But like many others, I have serious doubts.

God bless her!

#178 WDL on 12.06.20 at 10:24 pm

Balony Sandwich say, “I propose a compulsory tat on the foreheads of vax refusers. This way we know who the selfish coward potential virus hosts are.”

Another idea….why don’t we tattoo those who get the vax with the number 666 so we know they got the vax. Now there’s an idea of biblical proportions. LOL

#179 Blair on 12.06.20 at 10:55 pm

I am 66 years old. I will gladly take the vaccine as soon as it is available. Vitamin D and Zinc supplements are useless. I find it reprehensible that older folks are seen as dispensable and that the economy is seen as paramount.

#180 Kurt on 12.06.20 at 11:01 pm

#169 whiplash

I’m glad your mom made it! Looks like she and her family got lucky. 1 in 6 people her age do not. Roll a regular die – if it comes up 6, you get what your mom got. If it comes up 1, she’s dead.

Intentionally rolling the dice while lying about the risk such as Huh did, is reckless, selfish and stupid. Just because your mom got lucky, are you advocating for other people to take that stupid gamble?

No, your mom probably doesn’t need to be vaccinated now, given that she has naturally acquired immunity – but you knew that, didn’t you? So, apart from giving the rest of us a chance to recognize your good luck, did your post really contribute anything?

#181 KG on 12.06.20 at 11:03 pm

Over 140,000 Canadians were infected in November. A hundred have died since Thursday. Not enough for you? – Garth

Care to ask for age and co-morbidity list of those 100. I have zero expectations from you.

How callous. – Garth

#182 Dr V on 12.06.20 at 11:04 pm

114 Don

“Geesuz”

Ha! You made a funny!

#183 morrey on 12.06.20 at 11:18 pm

There were no Anti-Waxers when we confronted Polio, Measles, Mumps etc. etc.

Two years ago my wife and i received our Shingles vaccines shots (not covered). So did my sister. Brother-in-law poo-pooed the vaccines. approx. 14months ago he got shingles. mucho pain. Still has it. He daily laments his decision. Your choice.

And come April May June we will be in line for the vaccine against COVID.

#184 tyberius on 12.06.20 at 11:29 pm

DELETED

#185 jane24 on 12.06.20 at 11:47 pm

Here in Britain the National Health Service says that my hubby and I age 66 and 69 with no health issues will be called for Covid shots, late next month. They are starting vaccinating the hospitals and nursing homes tomorrow.

I have no issues with this shot in a life of many shots. I remember polio. In every school in the 1960s there were a couple of kids with heavy calipers on their legs to help them stand and these were the lucky survivors of polio.

Until I read today’s comments I was unaware that so many Canadians have such reservations about getting this vaccination. It seems very un-Canadian. Could it be media leakage coming into Canada from the USA I wonder. I have been mystified all year at the number of fellow Canadian who seem transfixed by US political matters that have nothing to do with them. Strange world that is getting stranger.

#186 T-Rev on 12.06.20 at 11:53 pm

Amen Garth. Spoken like a leader. Anyone who doesn’t get it, medical exemptions aside, is either selfish, a fool, or both. And chickens*#t in either case. Everyone needs to roll up their sleeves and do their civic duty.

#187 Jinrummy on 12.06.20 at 11:54 pm

Before pushing for a 20 year experiment in the hopes of herd immunity one should genuflect on the law?

Herd immunity cannot exist since a virus by definition in self replication mutates.

Article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights adopted by the General Assembly of the UN was adopted in 1996.

#188 Hawk on 12.07.20 at 12:06 am

Here’s some very interesting food for thought.

Why is it that those who are in favour of getting vaccinated are so coercive, even to the point of what is absolutely criminal conduct and denial of inalienable rights, towards their fellow citizenry.

Presumably the whole point of these vaccines is that they are going to immunize one against a terrible disease, at the cost of zero or minimal side effects…………….correct?

So why even be concerned about anyone else who chooses to opt out………..much less engage and encourage all this coercive and fascist behaviour?

Why not just go your merry way in peace and enjoy your life knowing that you are safe and sound, having made the right choice for yourself?

And if the people who didn’t get vaccinated, get the infection and unlucky enough to have a weak immune system that doesn’t over power it eventually, well then that’s their look out?

What’s unreasonable about free will and human self – determination?

#189 belly rubs on 12.07.20 at 12:14 am

I’ll continue to get medical advice from my personal physician, thanks. That’s the person who recently conducted a checkup and gave me a prescription. They have my file. It’s fun to speculate, though.

#190 whiplash on 12.07.20 at 12:56 am

#65 The HT
I will not be allowing my four year old to get the vaccine, at least not until a year or two after the masses get it.

Good call, cause phase three trials do not include small children. The only exception is Astra Zeneca (UK) and their lowest age group is 5-12 year old’s 13-17 year old’s are exempt. Every company conducting these trials the candidates have to be 18+.

#191 SNOOP DOG on 12.07.20 at 12:57 am

I signed a 4 year fixed in 2018.

Reason – Mortgage Broker says “hey you know rates are going up from here” showed me the historic track record backed by probabilities.

Lotta good that did – Go’s to show you how nobody knows nothing.

PUT THE CRYSTAL BALL’S AWAY!!!

#192 espressobob on 12.07.20 at 1:03 am

#172 Job#1

Where did I say I worked in the medical biz? I take advice from the health care professionals instead of the emotionally challenged in the comment section.

Take that any way you want why the numbers continue to grow…

#193 AntMan on 12.07.20 at 1:29 am

#39 calgaryPhantom
Hate speech.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-319.html

#194 belly rubs on 12.07.20 at 1:30 am

#10 604Sam on 12.06.20 at 12:35 pm
I think it will be very hard to make everyone take a vaccine. Canada doesn’t have as many window-licking anti vaccers as America does, but there are a few. I work in construction and, anecdotally, about 50% of the guys I work with would refuse to take one. Seriously.

Mandated vaccinations would only bolster the fear. I think the solution lies in vaccine passports. Private businesses denying entry to those people not vaccinated. That’s the only way to achieve herd immunity, make life inconvenient enough for the anti-vac snowflakes that eventually they have to get one.

….

That goes down a wrong lane. Then you get anti-vaxers who decide vaxers should try living off the grid. Instead, leave it up to the individual and their doctor, and the medical guidance for each region. I have no medical degree, so I will rely on my doctor’s advice. I think the debate over vax and anti-vax is ill informed. Any rollout has been reported as a process with reviews along the way. Once the most at risk are assessed, and our doctors and nurses evaluate the treatment, others will be prioritized. The current vax debate among the hoi poloi is premature, and doesn’t do much else than harden people’s reaolve, one way or the other. I can respect someone’s decision either way, but I will still get the advice of a professional who gets abstracts and briefs and looks down my throat. I wouldn’t recommend ostracising a sector of society based on hypothetical data. When someone is afraid of something, hear them out. We do it for kids. I advise people discuss it with their doctor, but I don’t reject their concerns. I guess, because of my attitude, many friends have asked what I will do—vax or not. I said I will wait and see what the doctors and nurses do, they were in line long before me.

#195 Ustabe on 12.07.20 at 2:07 am

#168 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.06.20 at 9:39 pm

If the amount of “deleted” are any indication of the percentage of people who wont be getting vaccinated when it finally becomes available……………. yikes.

Back in the day McDonalds introduced the Quarter Pounder burger. To fight back A&W came out with a 1/3 pounder at a lower price. A&W’s burger was a failure because the consumer felt that it was a smaller burger. 3 being a smaller number than 4.

Never, ever think you are underestimating the general population’s grasp of anything.

#196 april on 12.07.20 at 2:13 am

#154 –
You people are poorly informed… vulnerable to misinformation and conspiracies.

#197 Jay Currie on 12.07.20 at 2:16 am

It is a very good thing that a vaccine is becoming available. Diamond Dog lists a few of the issues with the vax and they should be taken on board.

Living in a relatively low case area, for the moment I am in no rush to take the vaccine. My view is vaccinate the vulnerable and those who take care of them and then roll it out to the rest of us. Vitamin D, K and zinc and lots of exercise should keep our immune systems tuned up so if we do get it we will not end up in the hospital.

Remember, we have a vaccine for the yearly flu. It is not all that effective and, up until this flu season, plenty of people get the flu, are hospitalized and, sadly, some die. We don’t lockdown despite the fact the flu is deadly.

Having a sense of balance is critical right now. Most of us have at least six and maybe ten months to get through before we will get the vaccine. Being able to make a living, send our kids to school, have a semblance of normal life, is becoming urgent. Vax the vulnerable then let the rest of us get on with life.

#198 Harrison on 12.07.20 at 3:30 am

very informative.

#199 BillyBob on 12.07.20 at 4:29 am

#52 Doug in London on 12.06.20 at 2:34 pm
@Erik, post #18:
You are quite right. The problem is in these modern times we’ve gotten complacent. The memory of what it was like in the bad old days of polio, smallpox, and other diseases has been lost. Early this year I saw a documentary show about anti vaccers and thought that we need a good pandemic to smarten us up. It looks like I got that idea wrong, further truth you can’t fix stupidity.

================================

Couldn’t agree more. Same could be said about people who have lived a couple generations now without any first-hand experience with war or occupation. Life is so easy without bombs falling on them they have to invent problems just to get through the day.

Adversity begets resilience. Health and prosperity begets complacency and paradoxically, weakness.

I’ll bet the Syrian war refugees in Canada won’t be frightened to get a vaccine developed by the finest scientific minds in the world backed by unfathomable resources. Sometimes a little perspective goes a long way.

But Joe Suburb Canada will “wait and make sure it’s safe”. Cause he’s so much more knowledgeable, dun some research on YouTube and Facebook and y’know, it’s all a conspiracy and gotta protect me and mine. Much like masks, he can’t quite muster up the logical horsepower to puzzle through the concept of mutual protection. Everyone else can go first. And then when no one takes it “see, it doesn’t work!”. A triumph of circular stupidity. Ugh.

It’s fascinating to see the race away from science and rationality back to an almost medieval embrace of superstition and gossip.

#200 Dmitry on 12.07.20 at 5:23 am

Sorry for your experience. But that was 40 years ago. In the last eight months 12,661 Canadians have died of this virus. It has to stop. – Garth

Garth, the conclusion you seem to be making is that absent sars-cov2 these 12,661 Canadians would be alive today. That is not true. Majority of those who died were in advanced age with serious (in many cases multiple) comorbidities and many would have died anyway as their life expectancy was nearing zero before they caught covid. The real direct covid death toll is materially lower than that. And nobody knows what it actually is.

So sorry, but you are being disingenuous when you are quoting that number as “died of this virus”.

You ridiculed me for objecting to your call that “millions will not die”. Well guess what, you were right.

The truth is that getting infected with covid is not a big deal. I would rather catch covid 10 times than HIV once. Covid passes in couple weeks, HIV stays till the end. By the way, they tried to come up with HIV vaccine too, for decades.

#201 Heavens little helper on 12.07.20 at 5:31 am

Rates are low because government purposefully crashed the economy to “ reset” but it got out of hand , ( as China thought by releasing the virus would let them scoot ahead) the opportunity lost, and now they’re running for the Jungle of Denial and Oceans of Filibuster. The war going on is silently being played out and media is being paid billions to deny it’s happening.

If you’ve lost your job or business no matter, you’re a casualty, collateral damage. Justin thought his announcement of RESET would provide the rallying cry for billions of slaves to finally capitulate. Turns out he looked out at a sea of blank faces who weren’t going to follow him into anything.

A bit like Charlie Mansons “ Hester Skelter” when Charlie assures his zombie-clan that killing a movie star and a grocer would start a race war. When a leader is completely deluded it’s called madness. So, now the rebuild. Let’s hope the promise of a vaccine sends the truly crazy reset fanatics back into the shadows, or back under the bed, wherever the Christmas vacay will be held this year.

Bottom line, the “ plandemic” failed and Trudeau will have to find an excuse for spending all the money he was assured he’d never have to pay back. Laughable, because the world leaders had already tried on crowns and renamed territory. If you voted for Trudeau, you’ve got what you voted for, congratulations. Don’t freak out as taxes lurch towards 100%. It’s still a world of opportunity, just not for you.

#202 TheBigSmoke on 12.07.20 at 6:43 am

Insane Toronto housing prices are driving out solid middle class earners to Burlington. A lack of affordable housing is driving a housing crisis while luxury units are built instead. It’s only a matter of time until the price correction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Ras4ukFHE&feature=emb_title

#203 calgaryPhantom on 12.07.20 at 7:19 am

#193 AntMan

Hate speech.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-319.html
———————————————-

Not sure how/why my post got you thinking of hate….either people get vaccinated or develop antibodies…that’s the only way to stop the virus spread…

your post kinda sounds like trump’s election lawsuits ..

#204 Captain Uppa on 12.07.20 at 7:49 am

Bye Bye New York. How long before big banks in T.O. start looking elsewhere? We already know other big companies are dismantling office space or moving.

Goldman Plots Florida Base for Asset Management in a Blow to New York

“The bank’s success in operating remotely during the pandemic has persuaded members of the leadership team that they can move more roles out of the New York area to save money.”

Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-06/goldman-plots-florida-base-for-asset-management-in-a-blow-to-nyc?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business

#205 Victor V on 12.07.20 at 7:59 am

Partisan sniping won’t get vaccines into Canadians’ arms. Only planning will

https://www-theglobeandmail-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/opinion/article-partisan-sniping-wont-get-vaccines-into-canadians-arms-only/

#206 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.07.20 at 8:14 am

@Jane24
“It seems very un-Canadian.”

+++++
Dusted off the Canuck passport? Renewed your EU passport?

Brexit comes crashing down Jan 1st.
3 Prime Ministers
4 years of talking.
Scottish separatists renewing their plans.
Borders in Northern Ireland……and the politicians still blame everyone else but themselves.
Covid still knocking on the door.
A budget deficit projection in 2021 even worse that 2020.
Blimey!
Get ready for the lorry line ups….. toilet paper will be worth more than the Pound.

#207 Sky on 12.07.20 at 8:48 am

@ Peter McLean # 35

“They say in the news that the elderly should get the vaccine first. Shouldn’t younger people who tend to be asymptomatic, and therefore spread the virus more easily, be first to get it?”

********************************************
We are drowning in misinformation. Nearly the entire population of ground zero in China (Wuhan) was tested post-lockdown. They found ZERO transmission from asymptomatics to their close contacts. Asymptomatic rate was extremely tiny. Only 3 people per 100,000.

“Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China “:

“No new symptomatic cases and 300 asymptomatic cases… were identified. There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases.”

“Testing of antibody against SARS-CoV-2 virus was positive in 190 of the 300 indicating that 63.3%… of asymptomatic positive cases were actually infected.”

“…virus culture was carried out on samples from asymptomatic positive cases, and found no viable SARS-CoV-2 virus. All close contacts of the asymptomatic positive cases tested negative…”

“There was a low repositive rate in recovered COVID-19 patients in Wuhan. Results of virus culturing and contract tracing found no evidence that repositive cases in recovered COVID-19 patients were infectious, which is consistent with evidence from other sources.”

“Existing laboratory virus culture and genetic studies showed that the virulence of SARS-CoV-2 virus may be weakening over time, and the newly infected persons were more likely to be asymptomatic and with a lower viral load than earlier infected cases.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w

#208 FriedEggs on 12.07.20 at 9:18 am

FACT – No RNA technology for a drug or a vaccine has ever been approved for public use. Dispute that with a fact – you cant.

Yet someone questioning the ‘SAFETY” is a conspiracy theorist.

Lets ‘critically think’ while we roll up our sleeves, eh John?

Britain just approved it. The US will do so, likely this week. Canada also. Europe to follow shortly – Garth

#209 ChopperGuy on 12.07.20 at 9:22 am

I took the flu shot this year for the first time in almost 60 years of my time on this planet. Feel fine. I spent 30 of those years flying choppers. I have a rule… I never fly the “A” model of any new helicopter type until it had 10000 hours on it. I’ve buried too many friends. I’ll take the shot….but I will be at the end of the line…

The credo on this blog seems to be ‘self before society.’ Explains a lot about our current world. – Garth

#210 Janet Poole on 12.07.20 at 9:27 am

Sweden ends it’s globalist open borders Covid free for all in a quickly growing death spiral so easy to predict that the leftists in Sweden had to make it illegal to publish any discontent. In the end it’s just a massive death sprawl.

The Wall Street Journal: Long a Holdout From Covid-19 Restrictions, Sweden Ends Its Pandemic Experiment.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-a-holdout-from-covid-19-restrictions-sweden-ends-its-pandemic-experiment-11607261658?mod=flipboard

When Trudeau, Tam and Hadju insisted that Canada follow lock step with China, they ordered a massacre ( not literally of course) of objections. Trudeau/Tam/Hadju vociferously defended open borders, unchecked arrivals and the out-shipment of critical supplies. The dead counts climbed into the thousands and climbs further every day. The numbers of dead is now stratospheric. Just last Saturday Trudeau international arrivals on the honor system. Hosannah !!

There is no hope from Trudeau, still insisting Covid is an opportunity. Hadju says it’s your fault. I wonder if gathering would have been a problem in the first place if Trudeau hadn’t invited free range Covid carriers into Canada in the first place.

Merry Christmas, I hope you live to see it.

#211 Dharma Bum on 12.07.20 at 9:34 am

To vax or not to vax…that is the question.

Not really.

Moot.

Once an actual working vaccine becomes a practical reality (as opposed to wishful thinking at this point) it will be compulsory. Guaranteed.

Being unvaccinated will be like driving without a license, travelling internationally without a passport, possessing a firearm without a PAL, hunting without a tag, building without a permit, running a restaurant without a health department inspection clearance, or practicing dentistry without a DDS.

Everyone will be required to provide proof of vaccination.

To leave the house. To get a job. To go to school. To walk the dog. To have a meal.

Count on it.

Period.

#212 Brett in Calgary on 12.07.20 at 9:39 am

Agreed. COVID should not be trivialized and neither should the use of a previously untested vaccine method. I remain optimistic, however that RNA vaccines could be akin to the jump from Blackberry to iPhone.
=================================
#90 Brett in Calgary on 12.06.20 at 4:32 pm
There is so much hope pinned on this vaccine – it had better not fail. Let’s see if CBC tracks as diligently any (hopefully none) adverse outcomes from the vaccine, as they do from the disease.

We know the adverse outcomes of Covid. Ten thousand dead Canadians. – Garth

#213 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.07.20 at 9:41 am

Dont worry about Vaccines….

The killer robots are here…

https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKBN28H13F

#214 Tron Light on 12.07.20 at 9:47 am

“You cannot reason someone out of a position that he wasn’t reasoned into.” Jonathan Swift

#215 AO1 on 12.07.20 at 9:50 am

Hi Garth,

Can you please do something on the rise or recreational properties and cottages. How are people affording these? Won’t these be the canary in the coal mine? How are people with fat mortgages in the city, affording a cottage with a fat mortgage?

#216 Do we have all the facts on 12.07.20 at 9:59 am

#200 Dmitry

Good observation. There are 4,670,000 Canadians over the age of 70 in Canada and with or without a virus an average of 585 individuals in this age group will die every
single day.

In the 240 days since the first death attributed to the Covid 19 virus occurred we could have anticipated the death of 140,400 citizens who were 70 years of age or older. What percentage of these anticipated deaths might have become infected with the Covid 19 virus.

The mortality rate for the 335,000 Canadians who are 90 years of age or older is 188.4 deaths per 1000 at an average of 172 deaths per day. Since March 19 we could have anticipated the death of 41,240 citizens who were 90 years of age or older.

Ever since UO7.1 Covid 19 was introduced by the WHO in March all deaths were the Covid 19 virus was present and might have contributed to a death recorded UO7.1 as the primary cause of death on the death certificate and listed other comorbidity health issues such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes, COPD, as secondary causes on part 2.

It seems very reasonable to ask what percentage of the 11,011 deaths of people over the age of 70 that were recorded under UO7.1 Covid 19 since March 19 had serious health issues that would have resulted in their death if the Covid 19 virus had never emerged.

I am not denying that the Covid 19 virus is very contagious but we will not no its true impact on mortality rates in Canada until statistics over several years are analyzed.

Focussing on daily increases in Covid 19 deaths in Canada requires some context that is not being provided by the media or by our government.

I think less of you for having written these words. – Garth

#217 Sonny on 12.07.20 at 9:59 am

Trudeau government won’t say who got billions of dollars in aid

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-spending-government-transparency-1.5826917

“This story is part of The Big Spend, a CBC News investigation examining the unprecedented $240 billion the federal government handed out during the first eight months of the pandemic.

When Justin Trudeau ran for office in 2015, he promised Canadians a more open and transparent government.

An investigation by CBC News reveals, however, that the Trudeau government hasn’t been entirely transparent about where COVID-19 aid worth billions of dollars has gone…”

#218 Sara on 12.07.20 at 10:10 am

#214 Tron Light on 12.07.20 at 9:47 am
“You cannot reason someone out of a position that he wasn’t reasoned into.” Jonathan Swift

=====================

My favorite quote of late is very similar,

“It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled.” – Mark Twain.

#219 milly on 12.07.20 at 10:22 am

Well said Garth! We all need to cooperate to get out of this and heal our economy.

For housing I’ve given up, I think no matter what the Gov will bail it out. A recession causing a slump? Lower interest rates. No more room? 40year amort. That not working? 0% down. I don’t think we will see affordable housing in my lifetime.

#220 NSNG on 12.07.20 at 10:31 am

#174 Tron Light on 12.06.20 at 9:53 pm

“Over 140,000 Canadians were infected in November. A hundred have died since Thursday. Not enough for you? – Garth”

I’m certainly not downplaying any deaths and yes, there are over 12,000 and will be more unfortunately, however, in 2018, over 8500 died of the flu in Canada. Interestingly, over 7 million people are infected by the flu in Canada annually. Also interestingly, there is no flu this year.

So, yes, deaths are above average but the number of people infected will be nowhere near 7 million.

And how many people have died of other causes during that time? How many died of cancer? Or heart attack?

====================================

World Food Program Director: 270 Million People Now “Marching Toward Starvation” In Wake of COVID-19

According to the head of the World Food Program (WFP), the amount of people around the world now on the brink of starvation has doubled due to the COVID-19 pandemic and the resulting economic effects of government reactions to the virus.

https://planetfreewill.news/world-food-program-director-270-million-people-now-marching-toward-starvation-in-wake-of-covid-19/

I sure am glad experts are in charge

#221 Nick on 12.07.20 at 10:43 am

I thought you know what was going to be about Our new money minister calling for ways to extract people’s savings from their bank accounts?

No, she did not. – Garth

#222 P.Ooched on 12.07.20 at 10:50 am

TIL – Canada’s former finance minister, Paul Martin Jr. (the one who slayed a giant deficit, balanced the books and went on to become PM # 21) was a polio sufferer.

His old man, Paul Martin Sr. also a .CA politician, also a polio suffer and who just happened to be Canada’s federal health minister at the time that the first Polio Vaccine rolled into the picture.

Martin Sr. was faced with some incredibly tough decisions as controversy boiled over the new vaccine.

Molly Thomas from CTV’s newsmagazine program W5 tells the story – Valuable lessons from Canada’s polio epidemic – and if your interested you can watch the video [21:44] here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43NVNT_wDeQ

*TIL – Today I learned

#223 Do we have all the facts on 12.07.20 at 10:57 am

#206 Do we have all the Facts

I think less of you for having written these words – Garth

You are definitely not alone in this opinion but the lack of context when discussing the impact of the Covid 19 virus on mortality within Canada bears further examination in order to assure appropriate responses to all viral infections in the future.

#224 Lefty on 12.07.20 at 11:13 am

#222 P.Ooched

Paul Martin was a great politician, but he didn’t slay the defecit. The GST and downloading costs to the provinces did.

#225 Steerage science on 12.07.20 at 11:17 am

mRNA vaccine development is just amazingly cool science

The person with original idea nearly 30 years ago is Katalin Karikó.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

She couldnt get tenure because no one believed it would ever work…mRNA is very unstable… does its job to provide instructions to make a protein… and then quickly discarded by our cells…..but she plugged away and then others made key contributions to adavance the idea that led to two compaies Moderna and BioNtech …

Many billionares spawned… hope she owns some shares too as she now works with BioNTech

Can you imagine the wonderous joy she must feel when the first clincally approved version gets injected tomorrow in Britain… this is nobel prize winning stuff.
Less than one year after a very brave Chinese researcher sequenced and published the genome of the virus … it took literally days to make a vaccine which is the tremendous power of the technology

A stunning achievemnent of science and capitalism… looking forward to getting it.

#226 Classical Liberal Millennial on 12.07.20 at 11:19 am

There’s a lot more stupid in the comments than usual. Good grief.

#227 SeeB on 12.07.20 at 11:33 am

#208 FriedEggs on 12.07.20 at 9:18 am

FACT – No RNA technology for a drug or a vaccine has ever been approved for public use. Dispute that with a fact – you cant.

Yet someone questioning the ‘SAFETY” is a conspiracy theorist.

Lets ‘critically think’ while we roll up our sleeves, eh John?

—————————————————————

What is the minimum threshold of “safety” you require before you think it’s OK to take a vaccine? Numbers and/or percentages please.

#228 Doug in London on 12.07.20 at 11:48 am

We’re still arguing about how effective these vaccines will be. Let’s do something that hasn’t been done since Cleopatra was Queen of Egypt and live in that little known, much less understood weird place called the real world. I figure that by the time the vaccine is available where I live any bugs will be worked out and its safety will be proven many, many, many, many times over.

If I am EXTREMELY LUCKY I may get this vaccine on the way back from a day in The Bend, after enjoying renting a Jet Ski from Extreme Watersports or taking a ride with Grand Bend Parasail, sometime in the last days of summer when the days are getting noticeably shorter. Could I really be that lucky?

#229 Nick on 12.07.20 at 11:50 am

#221 Nick on 12.07.20 at 10:43 am
I thought you know what was going to be about Our new money minister calling for ways to extract people’s savings from their bank accounts?

No, she did not. – Garth

So what did she say then? Unlock?

#230 BlogDog123 on 12.07.20 at 11:53 am

re: #208 FriedEggs on 12.07.20 at 9:18 am
FACT – No RNA technology for a drug or a vaccine has ever been approved for public use. Dispute that with a fact – you cant.

Yet someone questioning the ‘SAFETY” is a conspiracy theorist.

Lets ‘critically think’ while we roll up our sleeves, eh John?

Britain just approved it. The US will do so, likely this week. Canada also. Europe to follow shortly – Garth

===
This FriedEggs dude will cherry-pick his scaremongering ‘facts’ vs. decades of peer reviewed medical journals / testing and the recent rigorous studies and safety review boards.

The anti-vaxxers haven’t set up their own safety review boards because smearing fear all over the place is their weapon of mis-information.

Many of these newly ‘enlightened’ anti vaxxers benefit from MMR, polio, etc. vaccines they and their community received from childhood, but now want to spread their spin to make them feel ’empowered’… yuk !

#231 jess on 12.07.20 at 12:00 pm

the extraction business …the global value of real estate ~217trillion dollars >than global gdp of all the economies in the world
fishing for fools other reasons people are angry?
whether you live in barcelona sweden canada all the same

and another reasons
Roberto saviano writer of gomorrah living under a death threat after reveling structures of organized crime

He says: ” Imagine that you make 100m euros by trafficking cocaine or migrants? What do you do? You buy a restaurant in Rome , hotels, houses -nothing suspicious — then you sell those properties to your company in a tax haven . Your offshore company brings the assets to Italy Germany England . This is how you launder and distribute money all over the world. If you want to bring the dirty money back to your country , you simply buy it from yourself at a much higher price than what you paid. The mechanism cannot be attacked.Tax havens are where legal and illegal capitalism meet. What do Queen Elizabeth ,the drug lord Rafael Caro Quintero, Shakira and apple have in common?
They all have a portion of,or almost all, of their capital in a tax haven.Banks do business with cartels and with those who make money honestly.Money from cocaine and from tax shelters comes together in the same place.What happens to this money?It becomes companies,tourism, hotels,shops,supermarkets,soccer teams…art,museums,and politics .You can no longer trace its origin.The first thing companies like amazon,facebook and Netflix do,is look for a way to pay less in taxes. How is it possible in a country like Italy,that an honest worker pays 60% while multi-billion dollar company only pays 4% in taxes.Companies don’t want inexpensive real estate,they want to pay as much as possible to be able to hide more money.Without money from your family the next generation will not be able to afford a home
and now rent!
========================
taxing neflix or gov. a shared buyer in a home for the down payment is CRAZY

https://www.tvo.org/video/documentaries/push-feature-version

#232 Tron Light on 12.07.20 at 12:32 pm

#211 Dharma Bum on 12.07.20 at 9:34 am

Pure and simple – totalitarianism.

By the way, employers cannot force you take a vaccine without it being part of your initial employment. In other words, they cannot force you to take it now as a condition of your employment.

You kids are so cute. – Garth

#233 AntMan on 12.07.20 at 12:35 pm

#203 calgaryPhantom

Your post uses a public forum to propose violence against an identifiable group. The legislation is clear. I also flagged comment #36 as hate speech but that did not get posted. Conflating this with some well known politician is obfuscation.

#234 SoggyShorts on 12.07.20 at 12:42 pm

#123 mike on 12.06.20 at 6:33 pm
I believe I have a solution to make people like me trust the policy makers and willingly take the shot. Lets our leaders… take the shot first”
**********************
Like Clinton, Obama, Bush, The Queen, and Phillip are doing?

#235 SoggyShorts on 12.07.20 at 12:43 pm

#53 Young one on 12.06.20 at 2:35 pm
I have been saving for 5 years to buy a house, I won’t be getting the Vax , and I’m not selfish. The selfish ones are the boomers and they will always be protected, driving around in $100,000 cars in homes worth twice what they should be worth.

I just want to have a family and plant a garden, I can’t do this without the virus shaking things up some more
**********************
Wait…did you just say that you won’t get vaccinated because you need more people to die in order for you to buy a cheaper house? and you claim that’s not selfish?

#236 SoggyShorts on 12.07.20 at 12:43 pm

#33 Dwilly on 12.06.20 at 1:32 pm
This is a coronavirus, which shares 80% of its makeup with at least 7 other human coronaviruses that have been with us for ages
**************
And humans share 60% of thier DNA with bananas.
——————————-
#33 Dwilly on 12.06.20 at 1:32 pm
Look, I take vaccines as a rule, and whenever this one comes, I will study it an give it proper attention, then I will make MY OWN decision about what to do.
*********************
And how exactly will you “study” it? Just pop in real quick for a decade or so of med school? Personally interview the CEOs of big pharms to “see what their REAL agenda is?

#237 SoggyShorts on 12.07.20 at 12:44 pm

#29 Huh? on 12.06.20 at 1:21 pm
…. sticking our arms out for a virus that has a 99% + chance of not doing any of us any harm…
************************
WRONG

Possible side effects of a vaccine? Unknown.

Side effects of cathing Covid-19?
The most common signs and symptoms that linger over time include:

Fatigue
♦Shortness of breath
♦Cough
♦Joint pain
♦Chest pain
Other long-term signs and symptoms may include:
♦Muscle pain or headache
♦Fast or pounding heartbeat
♦Loss of smell or taste
♦Memory, concentration or sleep problems
♦Rash or hair loss

Organ damage caused by COVID-19
Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shownlasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson’s disease and Alzheimer’s disease.

This is why being “vaccine-hesitant” doesn’t make sense. We know for a fact that while most people infected with Covid recovery quickly, there are very serious long-term side effects that can happen.
The logical thing to do is to compare two

So far we have:
♦Zero deaths from vaccines vs 1,500,000 deaths from covid.
♦Zero known side effects from vaccines vs that huge ass list above.

No one is asking you “to go first” Tens of thousands of test subjects already have, and millions will still be in line in front of you. It doesn’t make any sense not to get in line though.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

#238 SoggyShorts on 12.07.20 at 12:46 pm

#56 Faron on 12.06.20 at 2:43 pm

Amazon has increased its profitability and ALL of that has gone to shareholders, upper management and Bezos himself. NONE of that excess wealth has gone to the workers

******************
Well that’s just not true. A 2-second Google found that Amazon gave employees a $2/h pay bump and then paid double wages for overtime.
https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/03/23/amazon-doubling-pay-for-working-ot-in-canadian-warehouses.html
————————————–
#56 Faron on 12.06.20 at 2:43 pm
the workers who continue to make not-much-above minimum wage
*****************
That kinda depends on where. In all of North America? Then $15/h is often WAY over minimum wage. In Alberta? Zero.

I’m not saying whether Amazon workers are fairly compensated or not, but they did get a little piece of the pie.

#239 Diamond Dog on 12.07.20 at 12:48 pm

#152 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.06.20 at 8:13 pm

Diamond Dog: A few more posts and then you can submit your book to the publisher. – PP

Can’t help it. There’s to much information to parse through to support conclusions. Besides, I did say that Diamond Dog’s master is Sigma and Upsilon with a slice of alpha in between.

Iota sees a tree, Sigma sees a forest. Iota sees a drop of water, Sigma sees rain. Iota see’s a river, Sigma sees an ocean. Iota sees a solar system, Sigma sees a galaxy; Iota sees a galaxy, Sigma sees the universe for Sigma is plural, many in one. Upsilon is Y, the fork in the road, Pythagoran path of virtue or vice. The alpha isn’t silent and this Iotan Diamond Dog has a lot to SSSAAAYYY

#240 SoggyShorts on 12.07.20 at 12:51 pm

#56 Faron on 12.06.20 at 2:43 pm

And no, it’s not a good thing that you can order and receive goods while still wearing the PJs from the night before. Ever travel? I think many people will agree that one of the best parts of traveling is going to the local marketplace.
******************
Sure, in other countries. It was great in every Asian country, and some European ones, but in Edmonton? The Superstore and Wal-mart aren’t any fun, and neither are Best-Buy or Visions. The farmer’s market on Parson’s charges 3-5x the price of the Superstore that is literally across the street. Strathcona Market is the same and the quality isn’t any better. Even White Ave has almost nothing of interest or value.

“Local” needs to do better to get more of my business.
I don’t even need them to beat Amazon, just get a little bit closer.
It’s like with “organic” veggies: Sure, I’ll choose those even if they cost more, but 100% more? Come on.

#241 Uncle Charlie on 12.07.20 at 12:52 pm

#51 Truth be told

It’s called retargeting:

https://www.adroll.com/learn-more/retargeting

All retail sites use it. Lots of other sites we visit as well.

#242 Pandemic my ass on 12.07.20 at 1:08 pm

To vax or not to vax…that is the question.

Not really.

Moot.

Once an actual working vaccine becomes a practical reality (as opposed to wishful thinking at this point) it will be compulsory. Guaranteed.

Being unvaccinated will be like driving without a license, travelling internationally without a passport, possessing a firearm without a PAL, hunting without a tag, building without a permit, running a restaurant without a health department inspection clearance, or practicing dentistry without a DDS.

Everyone will be required to provide proof of vaccination.

To leave the house. To get a job. To go to school. To walk the dog. To have a meal.

Count on it.

Period.

OMG…AGAIN WITH THIS CRAP…

For Dharma Bum….why am I under the impression that they left the doors open at the nuthouse???

Dude, FYI what you are describing is a recipe for civil war and shows your very limited intellect..

Gartho, this guy’s comment should have been deleted..but some moderators lack spine..lol

#243 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.07.20 at 2:03 pm

I didnt realize so many people were scared of needles.

#244 Steerage science on 12.07.20 at 2:05 pm

Wonderous science… mRNA technology has many other potential applications which are way more difficult that this fairly routine virus… they were just waiting for this moment to shine

Roll up your sleeve to win

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html?__twitter_impression=true

#245 meslippery on 12.07.20 at 2:09 pm

If market forces were in control of interest rates, you’d be paying HSBC four times as much to use its money.
—————–
What do you think farm workers wages would be be If market forces were in control and importing labour was not a option.

#246 Diamond Dog on 12.07.20 at 2:18 pm

Checked out a Dr. Scott Gottlieb interview this morning. I like Scott, he’s been largely on point throughout this pandemic. His insights aren’t perfect but I don’t know of anyone who is. Regardless, he’s been fairly spot on.

Why did I bring up Scott’s name this morning in a real estate/economics blog that offers steerage to money managers and reporters continent wide with the wide range of topics that spin around money? For the most obvious of reasons of course, humanitarian and economics.

Scott, as many already know, is a regular contributor to CNBC and while I have reservations with any formerly connected public official (former FDA commissioner) sitting on corporate boards so soon after public life, I’m glad he’s on the board of Pfizer specifically because he’s being as public as he is with information and what Scott said this morning in a 55 minute (WFH btw) conference is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone with credibility give guidance as to how long vaccines will last, so listen up. (For those who don’t have the time, go to 40:15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxJO8MrlGcg

The vaccine will likely need to be reformulated every 2 or 3 years. – Scott Gottlieb

Vaccine longevity at 2 to 3 years is not good news, but its not the worst news. Efficacy should be mentioned here, because there is drift (genetic drift), the vaccine will wear off over time and it’s efficacy will likely average around 70% over 2 years. Do readers follow?

Btw, where have we heard this before? So it’s confirmed, there is drift (genetic). Lets suppose it’s 2 years. What this means is what Scott has said concerning herd immunity earlier on in the same interview. We aren’t going to achieve it. We can control this pandemic and dramatically reduce the case loads we are seeing right now effectively ending this pandemic but will we end this virus? Probably not.

As the numbers of confirmed cases go down, media will find it’s next shiny object, but the virus will live on and if vaccine participation significantly drops, we’ll see this virus take it’s future slow drip toll on the economy speed up, but first things first.

We won’t see meaningful policy change out of the U.S. until the end of January until Trump is gone. It will take 2 to 4 weeks for policy to roll out in the Biden administration (hopefully sooner but remains to be seen) and, like Scott has alluded to, hopefully we’ll see “fever guns” (I call them temp guns) much more widely used under a new administration and we take cues here in Canada. Once again, we could lead here in Canada with temp guns right now, nothing stopping us but a lack of political will (and wise council).

The worst vaccine news concerning longevity is that we would have to take annual shots. Every couple years is twice as good as the worst case scenario but because of the logistical challenges of vaccine roll outs, it’s likely that Corona will be around for many years to come. However, the changes in human behavior and policy coupled with continued advances in technology and messaging will largely control this virus in North America and throughout the world.

Two final thoughts, Scott believes the virus will largely collapse in February or March, seeing a rapid drop off at some point in January and bases his hypothesis on vaccine rollout to front line workers (10% of confirmed cases right there) and seniors in homes (likely 30 to 40% of of deaths from this source alone), as well as the number of infected, Scott believes 30% of the population will be infected by early February. T

The U.S. at present has 4.6% of the population as confirmed with Covid19. The U.S. will likely add somewhere between 200,000 to 250,000 cases a day through to Jan 1st, maybe another 12 million cases a day bringing the confirmed totals to 27 mil… maybe 8% to 10% of the U.S. pop. If we use the rule of double, we are looking at maybe as high 16% to 20%, and a vaccinated population (30 to 40 million) could get herd immunity numbers as high as 30% by this time. While I don’t trust the numbers of the present models Scott quotes, still… Yeah, I can see his thesis as correct at least, for the U.S. .

As for deaths, when we look at the world charts of dailies and deaths, we see that the death count is nowhere comparable to the death ratios we saw in the spring. Most would think that as human behaviors change and health care industries have more experience in dealing with Covid19 in a wide range of therapies including diet etc., we would expect the death rate or CFR to drop. However, one cannot ignore the role the sunshine vitamin D plays with this pandemic. As blood serum levels of Vitamin D drop over winter, this virus will exploit it through higher rates of infection, more severity of illness and higher fatalities. Look for surprises in CFR’s in Dec, Jan and Feb:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

#247 Job#1 on 12.07.20 at 3:26 pm

#192 espressobob

My point was that you couldn’t be bothered to find out who exactly it was that “…worked tirelessly” to make vaccines. F for effort.

#248 Yikes on 12.07.20 at 7:03 pm

I get that some folks are hesitant about the vaccine given its extremely quick development. But the number of people with seriously flawed logic spouting off their reasons for not getting vaccinated in these comments is pretty alarming. I’m looking at you, “Its’ only 1%” people. This is an extremely dangerous over simplification.

For every death, there are many other cases that result in long term or permanent damage. For every death, there are dozens hospitalized with varying seriousness.

Just watch the next two months in the US. Their Thanksgiving bump hasn’t even hit yet. Between that and Christmas, It’s about to get whipsawed.

#249 westcdn on 12.07.20 at 8:22 pm

Another story. We skied to the Skoki Lodge to spend a day. I broke a ski on the way in. I managed.
There were two legends there – Blake and Taylor.

I went to see how my ski repair was going and Taylor cursed the fool who would use such cheap equipment. Needless, I didn’t say anything.

I didn’t belong at the lodge. They were the 1 percentage. So I am trying to read when Blake walks by and asks me to put on my gum boots to move the outhouse. Yeah, I am game and did it. He spent time in Tibet. He picked up a lot of their values.

#250 maxx on 12.07.20 at 9:12 pm

Is this the part where critical and informed thinking is run over flat by the vehicle with big lardy wheels and truck nutz? Jayzus!