Realtor Daniel Foch, a house-slinger from north of Toronto, did some interesting plotting recently. He tracked 211 deals reported by the real estate board in the course of one day, following the links between the sale address and the agent’s office address, showing the path of buyer migration.
It’s an exodus, he says, from the urban core to the fringes. To the east Durham was a big winner. To the west, it was Mississauga. To the north, Caledon and Barrie. In all these areas since Covid came, sales and prices have romped higher. Just look at the latest stats – Toronto saw a 19% year/year gain in detached sales while the 905 hinterland bump was almost 40%. As for prices, 416 plumped by 11% while the increase was 18% in the burbs.
So this is what Foch came up with. The Tale of a Single Day of the Virus.
We all know why this has happened (and not just in the GTA – every major centre). The pandemic’s infected everyone’s brain, making folks think they need to see bovines and sunsets in order to stay safe. Urbanity is being forsaken. High-rise structures are shunned. The subway is basically empty. Nesting is the order of the day. Meanwhile the WFH phenom has changed real estate tastes dramatically. Folks want space for Zooming away from the rug rats. They want yards, front doors and garages. And they think they can live in far-off, exotic places like Scugog or Marmora because they’ll never have to commute again.
Foch understands, but believes this is folly: “The economics of living in Toronto have been not good for young people with really no opportunity to buy a condo. And now that prices are starting to decline, I’m getting tons of inquiries. I think a lot of younger millennials and Gen Z are actually going to be part of that resurrection of the urban area regardless of what happens.”
Well, this is interesting. For while I agree with his assessment, there’s a sea change happening in this segment of the market.
As mentioned here recently the dividing line is 500. Urban condos smaller than five hundred square feet are tough sells, with prices fading weekly. Larger units – especially those of a thousand feet or more – are still in demand. Prices steady or rising. And this is a problem, since over the past few years the industry has turned out tens of thousands of the micro-units, once eagerly snapped up by investors who leveraged small down payments into decent rents with annual capital appreciation. Many also shared in the Airbnb bonanza. But now, gone.
Compounding it all is a serious shortage of tenants as the virus wipes out urban jobs in the hospitality, sports, restaurant and entertainment businesses, while students stay home from uni and immigration crashes. Then there was that insane no-eviction phase the provincial government went through and the shutting-down of landlord/tenant tribunals. Investor hell.
The result? A huge and growing supply of one-bedder boxes, falling valuations and tons of stressed owners. If agent Foch is right (he is) and the city resurrects with a new flood of young buyers, the early adapters could do very well.
So, where does this leave WFH and all those gypsies dragging their families and their futures into the distant sticks?
Out on a limb, of course. And meanwhile the inevitable is being discussed – that people who eschew the office and live/work remotely from some outpost should not only be paid less to do so, but maybe be taxed as well. After all, they’re avoiding commuting, no longer spending as much on vehicles, gas, restaurants or office attire and maybe cutting back on child care expenses – as well as living in a cheaper place. For the same reason a corporation would pay less for an offshore worker in a country where living costs are low, so the compensation for a WFH employee now communing with cows may fall.
Additionally, says a report from economists at Deutsche Bank, choosing WFH is a privilege that should come with a cost. They propose a 5% tax on these folks (because they’re spending so much less in the real economy) with the money going to subsidize low-paid essential workers who do not have this luxury, and upon whom society depends. The employer would pay if it stopped providing work space for the employee, but if the office overhead remained and the worker seldom arrived, the Zoomer would be taxed daily.
Oh, and did I mention the toll roads into the city?
162 comments ↓
Toll roads…yep always our movements to be penned.
What’s coming this winter? Ask the savior Joe B. Every USA small business and restaurant must be closed. (Big corporations only.) Even Alaksa will be locked down as of Monday I heard. Say of all the money spent by governments how many new hospital rooms/beds were created. And why’d they send away the hospital ships Comfort and Mercy? Stage props.
Listen to the kamp doctor:
https://nypost.com/2020/11/11/biden-covid-19-advisor-says-us-could-manage-pandemic-with-lockdown/
Dr. Michael Osterholm floated the idea in an interview with Yahoo Finance, explaining that a four- to six-week shutdown of small to medium businesses could drive down infection numbers
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Watch your food supply. Oh yes, our feeding, breeding and movements all must come under global control.
In Winterpeg the global govt ordered stores to 25% capacity. (I thought masks worked?)
Result, long frigid lineups. This is the brutal New System.
(By the way the Mink story was just a trial balloon – a test run. Substitute Cows, Pigs, Chickens next year. )
VIDEO – does this resemble an open air prison kamp in any way?
https://twitter.com/FredFredderson1/status/1326311982534946816
#Communism continues in #Winnipeg.
@BrianPallister tells us he wants us safe and healthy, yet to buy groceries we are forced to freeze our asses off in November. Winnipeg gets to -40c in the winter, what will we do then? How is this humane? Twisted and torturous. #EndTheLockdown
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Watch your food supply…2% inflation right? As I said from Day 1 “distancing” is the best social and economic weapon ever invented. As below, food production lines may not run at capacity with this. (Yes they would starve us, for “our health”. The CV protocols are the new global law.)
“The Financial Post reports in its Thursday edition that Walmart’s plan to charge its suppliers extra fees appears to have reinvigorated a long-simmering battle between supermarkets and manufacturers in Canada over how much a brand should have to pay to put its product on shelves. An ubylined item in the Post reports that the new Walmart fees — up to 6.25 per cent on the cost of goods sold on-line to help the retailer pay for a multi-billion-dollar modernization plan — are the latest in a series of fee increases across the grocery sector in recent years. Food and Consumer Products of Canada (FCPC) says that this time marks a “turning point,” since manufacturers cannot absorb any more charges. FCPC said any increases would be too much especially for the small manufacturers in Canada, which have already been squeezed by years of increasing retailer fees as well as extra costs of safety equipment and social distancing on production lines in the pandemic. The Retail Council of Canada (RCC) said supermarkets are themselves struggling with slim margins. This week’s tensions are the latest in a long saga, where retailers, such as Loblaw, Empire’s Sobeys and Metro, raise the ire of suppliers by raising their fees.© 2020 Canjex Publishing Ltd. All rights reserved”
Garth,
Your assessment is in line with the following
https://financialpost.com/news/economy/mortgage-rates-could-be-heading-higher-for-first-time-in-pandemic
Looks like a long winter ahead.
ONTARIO HEADING FOR HEALTH CATASTROPHE!!
In August, COVID cases went under 100 daily.
Within a few weeks, this is expected to be 6,500 daily!!!
Hospitals will be overwhelmed. All surgeries may be cancelled. Euthanasia by default for thousands is coming. Total economic crash.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-could-see-3-000-to-6-500-new-covid-19-cases-per-day-by-mid-december-new-modelling-suggests-1.5185730
And this says nothing about Trump and economic chaos ahead.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/opinions/donald-trump-defense-department-transition-taylor/index.html
Consider:
Health.
Political.
Military.
Diplomatic.
Environmental.
Global Catastrophe is coming at record speed.
PREPARE
Interest Rates are going to rise….how much by 1st Quarter 2021???
*In fact the health experts now say Ontario will be WORSE than some of the most infected, locked-down European countries.
By December.
PREPARE
….says a report from economists at Deutsche Bank, choosing WFH is a privilege that should come with a cost. They propose a 5% tax on these folks
– Sound like Deutsche Bank is trying to shift some of their tax burden to the employee. Very clever under the guise of wfh.
I’d pay the tax.
It’s interesting that you implore people to buy what they can afford but then chastise them when they don’t pay over 1M avg price in big cities.
Also, while covid has been a big force in pushing people out of city cores, it only accelerated what was already happening. A virus is not the only issue facing big cities.
Many I know (including myself) are tired of traffic, people at every turn, crime, homelessness and whatever the protest du jour is.
Re. cold winter – they are really dialing up the inhumanity in BC. The New System folks.
And we are but in Year 1 of the rollout.
Why this: our rulers specialize in the soft k!ll method.
Kamp doctor’s orders.
https://www.pugetsoundradio.com/2020/11/08/dr-henry-goes-too-far-harvey-oberfeld/
“Henry Saturday announced new rules BANNING any PRIVATE social gatherings of any size in PRIVATE HOMES with anyone not already living with your immediate household in the Lower Mainland.
NO visitors in ANYONE’s private home, not even ONE son or daughter or friend allowed to drop over to visit or help. Even if they wear masks, distance while visiting.
For anyone with mobility challenges, especially elderly couples or singles, already struggling with isolation, unable to walk far, having Covid fears of using taxis or buses, this is solitary confinement! Cruel and unusual punishment!”
It is not economists from a reputable bank.
It is a single dush bag from a nearly bankrupt financial institution that a few times barely survived on taxpayers money and now feels qualified to give tax advices.
People who WFH use less infrastructure, roads while paying same taxes, they have smaller carbon footprint as they don’t commute, they use less energy, pay their own utilities. Exactly what the same pricks who know everything advocate for: a greener economy. A smaller carbon footprint.
And when you go greener with WFH they want to tax you more.
I smell the pitchforks coming and it won’t be pretty for the banker’s and politicians heads.
The idiot at Deutsche should check with his bosses at Davos: WFH is the future, it should be incentivized, not
penalized.
Cheers,
You cannot do anything, it appears, without someone or some group wanting to pick away at your wallet – you try to save and the government and banks chop away at you till you bleed – push us into a cashless system so that they can squeeze more fees from your corpse- set up a yard sale or lemon aid stand and your libel to get fined/ticketed or shut down-
Think your in control of your money? think again
So what is the practicality of buying two shoe box condos and combining them into one? Cut a hole through adjoining walls and you have a larger single unit.
WFH?There soon will only be public servants working from home and that makes little sense as there are so many under tremendous stress just to pay their salaries.Will WFH public servants lose their jobs overseas?I doubt it…it’s a union/Liberal voter thing.Buying out in the sticks for a couple working in the public sector is a good move imo.
Oh Deutsche Bank wants a new tax on the middle class does it? Well, it’s a good thing the near-bankrupt future bailout recipient Deutsche Bank isn’t in charge of any government (at least not openly).
Garth I thought you always said to buy dirt? Is this about-face meant to rile up the steerage section or did you attend a Brad Lamb seminar and become a condo booster (>500 sq ft)?
Also, not to mention that GTA property tax collected is nowhere near the “1% of price” rule-of-thumb.
Seems like Toronto City Council can jack property tax rates to pay for the good of the people. Do you want to be shamed for not supporting Covid Tax? I didn’t think so.
“…people who eschew the office and live/work remotely from some outpost should not only be paid less to do so, but maybe be taxed as well. After all, they’re avoiding commuting, no longer spending as much on vehicles, gas, restaurants or office attire”
This completely ignores the increased spend on booze and other intoxicants. WFH has come at a personal cost measured in elevated liver enzymes.
3rd world problems…….
Downtown condo or house in the woods.
If only some people had our problems.
Out on a limb, of course. And meanwhile the inevitable is being discussed – that people who eschew the office and live/work remotely from some outpost should not only be paid less to do so, but maybe be taxed as well. After all, they’re avoiding commuting, no longer spending as much on vehicles, gas, restaurants or office attire and maybe cutting back on child care expenses – as well as living in a cheaper place. For the same reason a corporation would pay less for an offshore worker in a country where living costs are low, so the compensation for a WFH employee now communing with cows may fall.
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It is not cheaper for most to work at home. You need space, connectivity, office furniture to start with. A t2200 doesn’t come close to covering what it costs for me to maintain a true home office. It is the employer that is saving on cost – cost being offset by the employee. So maybe wages will go up?
And anyways wages will be determined by the market, like they are today. Pre Covid it was close to impossible to find really good people, and those people get paid their market worth. So some employers can try to pay less then market because WFH but I can’t see how they pull that off.
The rational for taxing WFH focuses on the costs to society of WFH, whereas there are big benefits of WFH for governments as well, namely reduced need for infrastructure spending and lower GHG emissions since less people would be commuting.
Maybe your city should give you a break on your property tax if you WFH? jk
Additionally, says a report from economists at Deutsche Bank, choosing WFH is a privilege that should come with a cost. They propose a 5% tax on these folks (because they’re spending so much less in the real economy) with the money going to subsidize low-paid essential workers who do not have this luxury, and upon whom society depends.
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This idea of a taxis completely nuts and will never happen. Do you pro-rate this tax if one is working in a hybrid way, going into work one or two times a week?
Is it a payroll tax added as 5% to the top marginal of 54% to make 59%. It should be up to the company and employees to decide on an effective WFH/Hybrid strategy that continues to provide value for the employer. The Gov’t should keep out of this, as this is usually the mantra of die-hard conservatives.
I think that this is just another shrill put forth by our moderator who is completely opposed to the concept of WFH. Perhaps it does not work for his company. However, for others it is working just fine.
…….And meanwhile the inevitable is being discussed – that people who eschew the office and live/work remotely from some outpost should not only be paid less to do so, but maybe be taxed as well. After all, they’re avoiding commuting, no longer spending as much on vehicles, gas, restaurants or office attire and maybe cutting back on child care expenses – as well as living in a cheaper place. For the same reason a corporation would pay less for an offshore worker in a country where living costs are low, so the compensation for a WFH employee now communing with cows may fall.
Additionally, says a report from economists at Deutsche Bank, choosing WFH is a privilege that should come with a cost. They propose a 5% tax on these folks (because they’re spending so much less in the real economy) with the money going to subsidize low-paid essential workers who do not have this luxury, and upon whom society depends. The employer would pay if it stopped providing work space for the employee, but if the office overhead remained and the worker seldom arrived, the Zoomer would be taxed daily.
____________________________________________
How is this fair if the ‘Zoomer’ does not choose to work from home? They’re told to work from home to keep numbers down in enclosed work spaces. Force them to work remotely and then tax them for it, just ’cause some dirt ball banker/economist says its a good idea?
Am going to keep the keys handy the next time I walk past a bank parking lot, particularly for the expensive looking cars parked in employee parking.
This is the trolliest Garth post ever.
What #9 Stan Brooks on 11.12.20 at 4:27 pm said is my response, couldn’t have put it better.
A tax on Working From Home? Hah. Good luck getting that passed.
I don’t know where you are seeing the bargains. $600 Grand gets you a crappy 650 sqr ft 30 year old condo in Vancouver. Why would anyone buy at these prices?
Thanks to our spineless governments selling us out by pimping our real estate to foreign speculators and enacting toothless measures to crack down on money laundering through real estate, our cities have become unliveable for the young and for many others. Why blame them for leaving ? if it was cheaper they would buy houses in cities. And Trudeau wants to increase immigration. Is that to reduce traffic, crowding and make real estate more affordable?
Aw c’mon, Garth. We both know that sometimes investment banks release goofball thinkpieces just to get their names in the news. Deutsche still has a few good research analysts, but, down 93% from their 2007 peak, are just about trying to stay too big to fail.
I don’t know about elsewhere in the world, but in North America, the rurals typically vote right, the urbans vote left, and the suburbs are the deciders. Nobody’s going to introduce a tax explicitly targeting suburban swing voters.
Why blame people for moving where they can afford to live? If our politicians hadn’t sold us out more of us would buy in the big cities, but most under 40 can’t afford to unless they buy a crappy condo. What would you do if you were young? You are lucky you have had the benefit of offshore money laundering which has jacked real estate values in TO and Van.
I find it disgusting that there’s even a discussion of a tax on work from home. Changes to salaries… that’s up to employers to decide and the labour market will react in turn. If people like their new living arrangement, who cares? However a tax because someone’s working from home, give me a break.
#21 Toronto_CA on 11.12.20 at 5:02 pm
This is the trolliest Garth post ever.
What #9 Stan Brooks on 11.12.20 at 4:27 pm said is my response, couldn’t have put it better.
A tax on Working From Home? Hah. Good luck getting that passed.
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haha… did you forget we are nearly in a dictatorship. Most anything will pass now as everyone is hiding in fear.
GET OUT the markets and sell to a GREATER Fool before you become the Greater Fool!!
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/jeremy-grantham-reiterates-bubble-call-calls-covid-rally-truly-crazy.html
So we bring in a carbon tax to incentivize people to drive less. Then when they WFH we say we’re going to tax them more because they’re not driving and supporting the economy? Where’s the logic?
Or can we just agree that the government will come up with any excuse they can think of to tax people and it doesn’t have to make sense.
Not to mention that if more people WFH then there will be more of a requirement for services to relocate to where the people are living/working.
As any flu in the past, COVID will gone sooner or later, that’s clear.
But what also is clear that something else, like Neo-SARS, Neo-swine flu will inevitably emerge. Likely more deadly, not 3% 4%, but maybe 50% .
I believe that humankind has already reached some level of congestion/overpopulation in major cities to the point where any virus will be spread like a California wildfire. Airlines enforce spreading viruses worldwide in matter of hours.
Therefore dispersing from center to peripheral arias is natural and necessary way to reduce the risk, anyway those stupid arrogant towers are in the past. As well as greedy globalization is now under the risk.
Not sure if Garth’s optimistic hopes “back to downtown” are destined to materialize.
The idea of taxing WFH people is crazy and counterproductive – they consume much less resources, much less impact, do not pollute freeways, etc, etc…
If I stop breathing, should I be taxed for that? :-)
Pure enviousness.
Tax people more because they wfh?? LOL that was funny.
Since I started wfh, my utility Bill’s have gone up, when we moved we rented a bigger place so I have extra bedroom that serves as my office, rent went up by $900.
I had to purchase things like 4 monitor setup, desk chair etc so that my efficiency doesn’t go down, out of my pocket.
And some idiot thinks I should pay more tax, really. Who is this guy?? I
Also plz stop comparing wfh with offshore folks, they can’t come to office twice a week.
People working from home should get raises!
My case:
1) People working from home have also taken on costs the company would otherwise be paying. How much do the big banks save on printing costs with employees printing docs at home.
2) Overtime costs. I know most people are working longer hours and not getting compensated for it. THIS IS HAPPENING. Huge savings for companies.
3) Other industries are benefitting from this shift. Maybe Starbucks and restaurants are struggling downtown but the Home Depots/Canadian Tires and general contractors are busy in suburbs!
4) Large number of people moving from larger cities into smaller towns have a positive (mostly) impact on everything. Just look at Garth Turner. He has probably raised the financial IQ of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia by at least 300%. I am hoping he has been involved in community projects and several non-profits to make it better place for everyone.
Yes, and also, it needs to be figured out how to tax everybody more, so as we can then finally be truly considered equal. And, for this to really work, for the good of everyone, we need all of the people living off grid and working under the table, to double their efforts in complying.
Freedom First
Star Link, a new satalite internet company, will be able to provide high speed internet anywhere on the globe except the north and south poles. It is estimated to cost around $ 100/ month . This will be a boom for WFH . Now you could set up a solar roof on your house, store the power in a large battery, and power your almost maintenance free electric vehicle. This is the new emerging reality. Invest on the right side of disruptive technologies. Cathy Woods of ARK Investments estimates one third of the companies in the S&P 500 index are in harms way in 3 to 5 years due to disruptive technology. Something to think about if you are a passive index investor.
New taxes on WFH is insanity. Next are you going to tax me because I don’t have debt, and therefore am not contributing to bank profits? Err.. I mean “the economy”.
Although Mr. Socks will need some good excuses to raise taxes, perhaps this is one.
Corporations are going to maximize profits by squeezing salaries as they always do. WFH is just the latest excuse.
Additionally, says a report from economists at Deutsche Bank, choosing WFH is a privilege that should come with a cost. They propose a 5% tax on these folks- GT
—
I also saw that earlier today, it is like do what I say but not as I do, such a hypocrisy !
https://www.corp-research.org/deutsche-bank#:~:text=Later%20that%20year%2C%20the%20U.S.,dollars%20in%20U.S.%20tax%20losses.
https://www.ft.com/content/eeefa806-184b-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385
https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-banks-5-biggest-scandals/a-46510219
Like it or lump it, COVID-19 case fatalities have been dropping since the 1st Wave and Worldwide:
https://www.greaterfool.ca/2020/11/12/outta-here-4/#respond
Could mean a lot things.
1. DAMN VIRUS running out of steam.
2. Humanity gotten better at saving lives.
3. People have gotten “Outta Here” or out of COVID-19’s way into the hinterlands.
4. All of the above or other reasons. Who knows?
When you square fatality rates going down with all the FEAR based reporting on Cdn MSM you have to wonder. I think the fear Canadians have is if they get sick will the healthcare system be there for them, make them better, save their life?
Here are hospitalizations for selected countries (no data for Canada, follows):
https://i.imgur.com/mZjG6FP.png
I think Canadians see on TV the effect of numbers in the chart and have a kanipshit that if they get sick, no one will care for them.
As FAR AS YOU CAN GET from the TRUTH.
Gov Canada “Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): Epidemiology update”, Nov. 11, 2020. Hospitalizations, intensive care unit(ICU), mechanical ventilation and deaths:
As of Oct. 31, 2020.
1. The number of hospital beds occupied by COVID-19 patients decreased from 837 to 836 beds.
2. The number of ICU beds occupied by COVID-19 patients decreased from 205 to 199 beds.
3. The number of COVID-19 patients who were mechanically vented increased from 111 to 98 beds.
Canada has 13.5 ICU beds per 100K population or about 5,075 ICU beds.
For 84.9% of all COVID-19 cases in Canada SINCE the BEGINNING (217,792 of 256,504 cases they have data for):
17,435 cases (8.0%) were hospitalized, of whom:
(a) 3,616 (20.7%) were admitted to the ICU
(b) 824 (4.7%) required mechanical ventilation
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PS:
Deaths Age Distribution in Canada:
https://i.imgur.com/r8tqBaJ.png
Like I have been saying over and over again:
1. Render the vulnerable harmless, let the young drive the economy and INCREASE money for personnel, hospital beds and ICU (though from the above I wonder about that) – throw $100’s of Billions at that instead of sidelining people and businesses and throwing that money at them.
2. RATIONAL thinking thrown out the door by FEAR.
1st Wave World Gov’s forgiven. Nobody knew until they saw what was happening in Italia (vs. China that nobody believed).
2nd Wave World Gov’s ABYSMAL FAILURE. Asleep at the wheel Summer and Fall.
FEAR.
Today’s Blog exemplifies what that does. The “Outta Here” crowd, they will live to regret it.
FWIW
#10 Doug t on 11.12.20 at 4:35 pm
You cannot do anything, it appears, without someone or some group wanting to pick away at your wallet – you try to save and the government and banks chop away at you till you bleed – push us into a cashless system so that they can squeeze more fees from your corpse- set up a yard sale or lemon aid stand and your libel to get fined/ticketed or shut down-
Think your in control of your money? think again
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Garth’s sage advice to live quietly among the masses comes to mind.
Wrong link…
Like it or lump it, COVID-19 case fatalities have been dropping since the 1st Wave and Worldwide:
https://i.imgur.com/qkzmmJT.png
He tracked 211 deals reported by the real estate board in the course of one day, following the links between the sale address and the agent’s office address, showing the path of buyer migration.
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I don’t get it? What does the agent’s office address have to do with anything??
#21 Toronto_CA on 11.12.20 at 5:02 pm
This is the trolliest Garth post ever.
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+100
Taxed for working from home. Plus paid less – though one could argue that if the work being done is essentially the same as what would be done in the office that paying less is a type of discrimination. Regardless, the fact remains that WFH also comes with overhead costs & presumably competition from equally skilled but less expensive (for now) offshore employees. At the rate things are going, Walmart greeter is going to become a highly desirable work opportunity:)
Condo fees & special assessments being what they are, I’d not advise anyone to buy a condo. However, maybe those micro towers could be converted to low income housing or seniors housing. Still needs a way to work around the whole condo fee/special assessment issue though. Seriously, for the prices being charged for those units they should be of much higher quality & require much less maintenance. Nope, don’t see that happening either.
How do I get the censor, while that “Apocalypse2020” guy rants away?
I’ll have you know that I was Smoking Man’s best bud and mentor.
And he was a legend on this blog!
Since I will be working from home most of the winter, my electricity bill will rise substantially due to increased heating costs during the day that I obviously wouldn’t have incurred were I going in to the office.
Will the globalist pile of waste at Deutsche Bank be okay if I get a tax credit for that overage after paying my marxist 5% WFH levy?
I’m astonished that you’re speaking favourably of this idea Garth.
#5 Apocalypse2020 on 11.12.20 at 4:23 pm
Yes, models, similar to Ferguson’s guesses that got us into this mess from the beginning. In the UK, they predicted last week or the week before, based on modelling, there would be 4000 deaths per day. What’s happening? No exponential death increases. The also predicted 50,000 cases per day. What’s happening? Cases never came close to reaching that number and are now falling, in fact, declining even before their latest lockdown.
Modelling relies on a lot of assumptions and you know what happens when we assume?
Rough go tonight Garth. The underwear keyboard warriors are out. I guess a lot of blog dogs are working from home with cheeto stained wife beaters on these days.
#33 freedom fist
Comrade is that you? Commie sometime, we can share a potato
I really don’t benefit either way if the WFH continues or if as Garth points out, we all go back to the Urban office. But it’s crazy to witness the reaction from those who now love the idea of WFH and some of the comments used to defend the concept when it’s threatened. It’s like listening to YVR homeowners defend they over inflated price of their home. People grasp whatever they can to justify what they are unwilling to accept.
Will everything go back the way it was, exactly? Probably not, but it’s going to be close. As Samuel Clemmons once said:
“History doesn’t repeat itself . . . but it does rhyme”
Sounds like a lot of jealousy out there for people WFH? Why not just be happy for people if this helps with more family time and is better for the environment with less commute etc…. Envy is a one of the sins I guess. Helps with the corporate bottom line too by getting out of RE, but tax the people? please…
To help close the wealth divide, the report suggests several tax policies:
• The first would be a tax on primary residence. It could be done through a capital gains tax, which could be focused on houses exceeding a certain value, to acknowledge the leverage boomers were able to take advantage of decades ago.
• Another area policymakers could focus on is additional taxes on financial assets such as stocks and bonds. This could be key because baby boomers are benefitting from low interest rates as they begin to sell the assets heading into retirement.
• Reid and Templeman also recommend a “super tax” on stocks to make up for gains that companies made by exploiting the environment. Governments could then in turn reinvest the funds in stemming climate change.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/save-capitalism-tax-boomers-new-report-suggests/wcm/60df5200-8a13-46be-b4cd-f20c0d07f765/amp/
#37 Dolce Vita on 11.12.20 at 5:41 pm
Cases in the U.S. and Canada are double what they were 3 weeks ago. It takes 3 to 5 weeks for deaths to catch up to reported cases meaning the numbers reported now will double in 3 weeks. Couple this with younger people passing it onto older demographics through the winter and higher viral loads of transmission leading to longer durations of sickness and higher fatalities and you get more dead people. The U.S. for example had 1400 deaths the last couple days each. We can look to expect numbers around 3,000 by Dec 1st and but potentially 4,000+ as demographics shift to the elderly and initial viral loads of infection climb. By Christmas its anyone’s guess, I think it will be gruesome numbers.
Take a look at Wisconsin, for example. 7,000 cases yesterday in a state of 5.8 million people. That’s 1 in 828 people reporting infections in a single day. That’s a high rate and it will overwhelm hospitals and all that follows. Why is it out of control in Wisconsin? Heavily politicized.
“Republican lawmakers have not met to address the pandemic since they passed a relief package in April. Since then, they and their conservative allies have worked to block every Evers initiative to curb the spread of the virus. They persuaded the state Supreme Court to strike down his stay-at-home order in May and convinced a state appeals court last month to block his restrictions on indoor gatherings. They’re also challenging Evers’ mask mandate before the state Supreme Court.” – link below
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/11/12/wisconsin-reports-nearly-7500-new-covid-19-cases-shattering-old-record-positivity-rate-also-at-all-time-high/
Unfortunately, its not an isolated story. This pandemic is so badly politicized… I’ve never seen anything like it or imagined media like FOX news with 34% of viewer market share would be so complicit, it’s growing into a humanitarian crisis worthy of class action lawsuits against the media specifically and elsewhere. 400,000 dead in the U.S. by NY is realistic now.
Investors will need to buckle up, Q4 and Q1 will get ugly!
#9 Stan Brooks. Well said and thanks. Change isn’t always easy or what one wants.
The result? A huge and growing supply of one-bedder boxes, falling valuations and tons of stressed owners. If agent Foch is right (he is) and the city resurrects with a new flood of young buyers, the early adapters could do very well.
———
Do very well at what? Falling into a debt trap? Enjoying condo fees of $1,000/month plus? Get hit with special assessments? Not own dirt? Get hit with higher interest rates at term renewal?
A condo near a subway with 1,000 plus sq/ft will cost at least $900,000. In Yorkville, you will only get around 850-900 sq/ft for that price and the condo fee is well over $1,000/month.
Did you get sunstroke yesterday on King Street? Or have the Russians, North Korean or Chinese hackers finally infiltrated this blog? Brad Lamb, is that you?
#9 Stan Brooks on 11.12.20 at 4:27 pm
WFH is the future, it should be incentivized, not
penalized.
—- – –
You got this one right Mr. Brooks.
#45 Modelling relies on a lot of assumptions and you know what happens when we assume?
————
Indeed modeling is not precise as it requires updated data and needs to be recalibrated. However, look at what is going on in the U.S. and the predictions with the modeling that was done there many months ago. Seems rather accurate at this stage.
Those that work from home are tracked by how much time they spend on their computers, so when it comes too lay offs the ones with low hours will get fired, not to mention off shore labour is cheeper ..
Greedy when fearful etc. This will be another cycle of urban renewal, but maybe on the juiced up COVID timescale. The hipster cycle:
City becomes a thing (early 2000s Portland OR) ->
Attracts creatives who make cool pubs, voodoo donuts etc. ->
Late adopters (timid middle managers and tech) come $ inc ->
Last big pump as RE explodes and the chasers chase ->
Too expensive! creatives move to Detroit/Boise/Pendleton ->
City becomes bland, Vancouver, SFO because its full of nerds that have to work too hard to afford to live there->
POP! Bubble bursts ->
Hey, look how cool Detroit/Boise/Pendleton are now… Cycle restarts
That takes a few decades. With COVID, everything happens faster.
Oh, and brace for some more market swings. Lot’s of catalysts for up/down swings but no clear narrative forward. Options mania amplifies the swings. Aside from FATMANG, market has been rangebound since June. Epic battle between NASDAQ and interest rates to ensue. Tech is hungry for capital, but capital flows more expensively when rates come up. If people sell bonds and tech, where do they go… Finally, the S&P keeps failing to break much above the trend established over past 10 years. Watch that as a limit for market highs unless the Fed pumps more money in. I plot that limit at 3645 now, 3700 for end of ’20 and 4130 for ’21.
This is what you call change Garth.
It is a beautiful thing. Constantly happening.
Keep telling yourself people are coming back to the cores. Ain’t happening.
Businesses will follow the people.
The economic strategy was derailed by Covy. The agenda was economic center development starting with the positioning of a University within an urban center and the arm of an airport that could develop alongside this positioning of growth to be (and was and is) artificially restricted by restrictive land use policies to inflate and sustain land values, which in turn supports the tax stream and the full on agenda of “growth” ………..that is until covy arrived exposing it for what it is. Just money streams globally and flat domestic wage growth and wealth destruction.
Why do you think Trudeau wants a million new immigrants to make up for lost ground? Universities are getting hit hard right now which is the epicenter of the Canadian economic agenda. It is the core of where all growth in society comes from and where few make bank on this (i.e. developers and crooked politicians).
Period
No-one supported the dinosaurs extinction then, we shouldn’t now either.
never happen … You can’t tax someone for not incuring expenses. And its none of governments %$*& ing business where people live and how they work. You want a revolt implement it.
Actually companies help WFH employees IMO
This is what I got today from my employer
**********************
Canada Revenue Agency allows employees who work from home more than 50% of the time, the ability to deduct certain home office expenses on their personal tax return. The mechanism to do this is a form completed by the employer, called the “T2200 Declaration of Conditions of Employment”.
Due to the work-from-home requirement since early this year resulting from COVID-19, we intend to issue all employees T2200 forms for the 2020 tax year. However, at this time, the CRA has not confirmed if the T2200 for the 2020 tax year will be the standard form, a shortened version, a new box on the T4, or some other format. We are keeping apprised of developments in this area, and will issue to you the tax form(s) that align with CRA’s guidance.
As this will be the first time that many receive a T2200, we are providing the following information to assist you with preparing for your 2020 tax return filing.
Canadian tax law provides two potential tax deductions in respect of these costs: 1) Office Supplies and 2) Home Office Expenses. Attached is a guide that outlines the types of expenses that are, and are not, deductible under each of these categories.
A summary of each is below:
1) Deduction for Office Supplies:
2) Deduction for Home Office Expenses:
Deductible Not Deductible
A proportionate share of rent relating to the home office if the employee has an office in a rented house or apartment. A proportionate share of mortgage expense relating to the home office if the employee has an office in a house or apartment he or she owns.
A proportionate share of the cost of electricity, heating, cleaning materials, and minor repairs in relation to the office (regardless of whether the employee owns the property). Capital cost allowance, mortgage interest, property taxes or insurance costs related to a property the employee owns.
Note: Employees cannot create a tax loss from claiming employment related deductions.
*************
Bla bla more specific company info I cannot disclose .. so we get more money from WFH not less
The WFH folks deserve a 5% tax credit for not gumming up the roads with traffic jams and making the air fresher. Cutting back on air polution should be a major gift from the WFH group who are not commuting and poluting. A big thank-you for getting cleaner air and less carbon in the atmosphere. We can all breath a little better and isn’t that what the Liberal regime is all about. Enjoy. Breathe.
Garth, are you as amazed at the lack of reading comprehension of many of your commenters as I am?
At no point do you speak favourably of less pay or taxing WFH. You only point out that such things are being discussed.
But it was a bit of a troll today. Just keeping things interesting I guess.
“Out on a limb, of course. And meanwhile the inevitable is being discussed – that people who eschew the office and live/work remotely from some outpost should not only be paid less to do so, but maybe be taxed as well. After all, they’re avoiding commuting, no longer spending as much on vehicles, gas, restaurants or office attire and maybe cutting back on child care expenses – as well as living in a cheaper place.”
————————
Folks, people get paid based on the supply/demand in the market for their skill set. Employers couldn’t care less what your expenses are. That is your problem and employers largely view it as your choice. They ain’t gonna pay you more just because you think you deserve a wake boat or don’t want to commute.
Work from home will continue to gain traction because it saves the employer money. No rent, no office equipment beyond a laptop and a cellphone, no coffee room, no cleaning staff. A WFH employee who can actually get the job done is worth more to their bottom line. But that said they still aren’t going to pay more than market rates for given skill sets. And they aren’t going to be able to pay less either.
The war on the office will continue until they squeeze every last square foot of office space out of their overhead that they can.
——————————–
“Additionally, says a report from economists at Deutsche Bank, choosing WFH is a privilege that should come with a cost. They propose a 5% tax on these folks (because they’re spending so much less in the real economy) with the money going to subsidize low-paid essential workers who do not have this luxury, and upon whom society depends.”
I realize you didn’t come up with this, and the article has been circulating widely, but it is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. People spend all the money they earn except for that which they might save for retirement or invest (which if successful leads to future spending). The idea that WFH’ers are not “spending money in the real economy” and therefore deserve a new tax is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Maybe they buy that wake boat. Maybe they eat out at locally owned pubs more often. Maybe they get that Harley. Maybe they renovate a bedroom into a fancy office with one of those upsy-downsy desks. Maybe they spend $400 on a couple of 24 inch monitors. Maybe they can now afford an additional day on the slopes. Maybe they buy an RV. Maybe they buy a Camry rather than a Corolla. The money will be spent in the “real economy”. It always is.
And how do you administer this tax? What about all the people who are already working in offices not in the downtown core who enjoy short commutes and free parking? Should they pay a 2.5% tax? The whole notion is ridiculous on the face of it. What if all the WFH people rent a WeWork spot for an hour a week and declare that to be their office but don’t show up? How do you police this crap?
Deutsche Bank is just talking their book. Commercial real estate lending has been a profitable business line for them for years and they don’t want to write anything down because they missed the move to the suburbs and turned down all the potential Subway franchises and local pub owners.
What is going on with DONKEY DON? Once the triple count is finished. Will Donkey DON and his family be finished. When you watch CNN and read about all the things they have done while lining their pockets it would
appear their easy money days are over.
It’s not so much flight to the burbs, as it’s flight to the SFD.
And I hope you’re sitting down for this; SFDs are more affordable outside city centres.
No one wants to live in tiny boxes anymore. Covid has just brought it to light.
“…but maybe be taxed as well. After all, they’re avoiding commuting, no longer spending as much on vehicles, gas, restaurants or office attire and maybe cutting back on child care expenses – as well as living in a cheaper place.”
————————————
So if people are saving money, there should be a “saved money tax?”
…shaking my head.
Incredulous!
Zoolander 3. Script update.
Location: Canadian Parliament, under The Peace Tower.
Prime Minister Zoolander stands on the steps of the main entrance waiting for his driver. Ernie D’Tool and Socialist Sing walk up to him from behind.
Ernie “Mr. Inclusive” D’Tool: “Zoolander. I want to say something to you.”
PM Zoolander turns to face D’Tool and Sing.
Ernie D’Tool: “Zoolander, you’re helping the Kong Honger’s escape from the Commu-crooks. You’re standing up for human rights and freedoms. I respect that. I want you to know that.”
Socialist Sing: “Yeah. I respect that too. I realize now that you’re actually smarter than you look.”
PM Zoolander: “Thanks. That’s a compliment, right?”
#35 64k on 11.12.20 at 5:33 pm
New taxes on WFH is insanity. Next are you going to tax me because I don’t have debt, and therefore am not contributing to bank profits? Err.. I mean “the economy”.
Although Mr. Socks will need some good excuses to raise taxes, perhaps this is one.
———————————
We need a rethink of how our democracy and taxes works. Currently there is no real skin in the game for the politicians or voters. Any party at any time can raise taxes with impunity for heck sakes, the resultant is shared. (Sure they may be voted out in the next cycle, but that is too late.)
Perhaps we change the rules:
1. Make voting mandatory.
2. Make voting public & viewable by all (so there is an official party you voted for).
3. Now here is the fun part, make the winning parties entire voting population _pay all taxes_ until the next election.
4. All the losing voters get a tax holiday.
Now before you poo-poo that idea, just think how much more pressure there would be on your favorite politician. He now needs to think clearly before he raising taxes else his winning voters might string him up. This would be true suffrage…
I also saw this inane article the other day. I can at least see the arguments to compensate employees less due to their savings, which I honestly believe to be questionable with increased hydro, square footage used for office space, home office purchases, etc. If anything I see more potential savings for business owners that are able to save on admin, heat, water, leased printers, paper, office supplies, and potentially rent. Maybe they should be taxed. Workers in this country are already taxed plenty when 54% of your marginal dollars disappear off the top with another 13% slices off what’s left.
#15 Pickled Liver on 11.12.20 at 4:41 pm
“This completely ignores the increased spend on booze and other intoxicants. WFH has come at a personal cost measured in elevated liver enzymes.”
Almost all of my booziest days were on someone or another’s corporate expense account. Sometimes mine. By the second Friday of Stampede I would just be praying it would be over so I could sleep it off.
Back in the heyday, people would expense rolls of twonies at the strip club if they were with clients. I think I threw out all of the posters though.
This cannot and will not continue once we have a handle on the Virus! It is insane that people need to drive two hours one way for affordable housing; it is absolutely not sustainable! This will blow up!
On the Covid front, well Sweden tried, unfortunately it is not working out so well for them, we can learn from them and other countries that are using there own methods to try and curve the spread to hopefully find a common solution.
Stay safe, take your Vit D and Zinc, wear a mask, humour me or not, your choice, wash those hands especially under the finger nails. :)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8941771/Coronavirus-Sweden-Hospitals-filling-patients-fastest-rate-Europe.html
HOUSING PRICE MOMENTUM Y/Y RATE OF CHANGE for Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto Single Family Detached Prices and the TSX Real Estate Index:
http://www.chpc.biz/housing-price-momentum.html
In October 2020, Toronto and Vancouver single family detached price momentum remained below their near term highs. Calgary units caught a bid but remained within its trend extending back a decade.
Cash buyers represented by the TSX Real Estate Index plot continued coiling about the “extreme fear” level of 20% below the flat line.
Condos no… Detached yes.
#61 Cristian
T2200 only applies to commissioned employees I think you will find. Maybe they will/have changed that but thats how its been for many years. I’ve been getting a T2200 for 25 years.
#38 Stoph on 11.12.20 at 5:43 pm
“Garth’s sage advice to live quietly among the masses comes to mind.”
Be the grey man.
If your car is nicer than your neighbors, it gets stolen first.
If your house is nicer than your neighbors, it gets broken into first.
If you have the nice suit, you get mugged first.
Always own the cheapest house, car, etc. on the street and hide that damn Harley in the garage.
When you go out in public do not dress to the 9’s unless business requires it.
Be the grey man. Somebody nobody would notice.
#75 Nonplused
Best post of the day!
Heard an interview with sociology Prof. Nicholas A. Christakis of Yale who authored the book Apollo’s Arrow: The Profound and Enduring Impact of Coronavirus on the Way We Live. He figures that the U.S. would not get back to a “normal” society until 2024. The societal disruption will not go away just because a vaccine is available in 2021.
#53 Stone on 11.12.20 at 6:53 pm
Do very well at what? Falling into a debt trap? Enjoying condo fees of $1,000/month plus? Get hit with special assessments? Not own dirt? Get hit with higher interest rates at term renewal?
A condo near a subway with 1,000 plus sq/ft will cost at least $900,000. In Yorkville, you will only get around 850-900 sq/ft for that price and the condo fee is well over $1,000/month.
—
He didn’t say when the early adopting should/will happen. Here are some eventual tailwinds:
–All falling markets have bottoms if there’s any utility in the product, for small condos there is utility.
–When the majority of average schlubs like us blog dogs can’t see value is usually when the smarter money is licking their chops. They know the likes of us are selling into the storm or distracted… Vulch time.
–Canada’s population will be going up when immigration resumes and if socialized childcare is established (see Iceland) easing the burden on working families. Demand for housing of all kinds is only going to increase and that can’t be met with bigger ‘burbs nor should it. Calgary N of Nose Hill comes to mind – fugly and very inefficient.
–With lower prices/demand for small condos, new construction will have fewer units per development -> lower new housing unit supply -> higher prices across the market.
–If prices get low enough, I’d expect whole buildings of microboxes to get purchased by REITs and converted to rental of varying term lengths.
–As SFD prices skyrocket and <500sf box prices drop, there will be buyers once the value prospects line up. Young first timers. Rent controlled housing/subsidized housing/etc. I'd guess there's still a ways to drop for that scenario to play out.
Forgot:
–Climate refugees
–Trump II refugees
#69 UtterlyConfusedCanadian on 11.12.20 at 7:40 pm
Your new voting rules are pretty standard in dictatorships. UtterlyConfused is a pretty good description. Why should someone be forced to vote if they don’t want to? Why should the administration have access to information about who did not vote for them?
Silly ideas.
Garth, I’ve been WFH for about 7+ years. I work harder and longer hours WFH than I did when I worked in the office, no joke. Might seem odd, but some people do as you need to be more available as a result so you’re not seen as slacking.
PS Garth, I did like Daniel Foch’s analysis. I like analysis.
But what does this thing mean? It means young people have slightly more housing affordability and older couples who generally move to the suburbs just got an incentive to do so now rather than later.
That’s just how it works. Young people who have low paying jobs and want to live near the party live downtown. Extremely rich people like audit partners at an accounting firm also want to live downtown, but in much different digs and they pay a lot more for them. The middle class has always fled to the suburbs where their kids can play hockey on the street. We are just seeing a bump and pump.
#53 Stone on 11.12.20 at 6:53 pm
Did you get sunstroke yesterday on King Street? Or have the Russians, North Korean or Chinese hackers finally infiltrated this blog? Brad Lamb, is that you?
———————————–
Spent years telling Millennials they’re stupid for buying small condos downtown instead of buying land/detached (further out, presumably, unless he thinks every 30-something has $3 million to spend?).
Now in 2020 some Millennials appear to be doing just that… but somehow that’s “wrong” too!
Of course there is a third option, and I suspect this is what Garth would recommend – take advantage of depressed rental rates and snag a larger, rent-controlled home in central Toronto. That’s a viable option, but there’s limited availability of detached or townhome rentals suitable for families, or even 3-bedroom apartments. Without stable, relatively spacious living quarters, family formation will be delayed further and fewer offspring will result. And for that, Millennials will of course be blamed.
#156 mike from mtl on 11.12.20 at 10:18 am
Agreed. But notice the progression. 16, 32, 64. Each time times 2. Not plus 2, but times 2.
I have seen long term WFH twice before. Here’s how it works.
First you are called in to be told your position is redundant, but don’t work, the company will give you a 40 hour per week contract. They’ll give you more, to cover your home office expense and in lui of benefits. They’ll pay your WCB because they’re required to, by law.
You are now a small businessman. Wow! Get your GST number.
A year later the company wants to review your rates relative to your “competition”. They want lower rates. They’re you’re only client, so what do you do?
Oh and all those cute small business tax incentives? Guess what, they’ve long disappeared. CRA knows what they’re doing. No you can’t “write off” your Tesla.
I’ve seen more then one hard working career company person sunk this way. Be careful what you wish for.
@#16 KNOW IT ALL on 11.12.20 at 4:47 pm
3rd world problems…….
Downtown condo or house in the woods.
If only some people had our problems.
—–
why not both?
Nobody is getting paid less for working from home or paid less. It is more efficient this way for everyone. And it was before Covid. The smart companies have fully remote employees for more than ten years. When did we vote for Deutsche Bank to determine what we pay taxes for. I hope you are not serious.
@#76 Drinking on 11.12.20 at 8:15 pm
#75 Nonplused
Best post of the day!
–
damn, you guys carry some serious paranoia around with you.
10 Doug t on 11.12.20 at 4:35 pm
You cannot do anything, it appears, without someone or some group wanting to pick away at your wallet – you try to save and the government and banks chop away at you till you bleed – push us into a cashless system so that they can squeeze more fees from your corpse- set up a yard sale or lemon aid stand and your libel to get fined/ticketed or shut down-
Think your in control of your money? think again
————————————————————————————————
Push you into a cashless system? Just say NO I use cash, cheque’s, almost exclusively.One credit card (no fee) just in case, you get what you allow tap and go so convenient
Lol.
@#77 cramar on 11.12.20 at 8:15 pm
Heard an interview with sociology Prof. Nicholas A. Christakis of Yale who authored the book Apollo’s Arrow: The Profound and Enduring Impact of Coronavirus on the Way We Live. He figures that the U.S. would not get back to a “normal” society until 2024. The societal disruption will not go away just because a vaccine is available in 2021.
–
reminiscent of nouriel roubini – just another gloom and doomer making easy money selling books to the rubes.
@75
“When you go out in public do not dress to the 9’s unless business requires it.
Be the grey man. Somebody nobody would notice.”
=====
Facepalm.
Great more people in sweatpants and pyjamas.
No Just No. If you are going out dress your best, always, especially now. You never know who you will run into.
I suppose I should be grateful you did not try to explain computers, binary numbers and Benford’s law to us today.
BTW, no one I know who understands what a database is would ever suggest it could be replaced by Excel… because it can’t. Sure you could swap out a single flat file table of records that documents your Christmas list or vinyl collection with an Excel file. But that is it. There is a reason Microsoft has invested heavily in SQL Server.
I am starting to wonder if some of your posts aren’t satire.
A reminder that this weekend Last Call rolls back from 10pm to 9pm in Toronto. Science has proven beyond a doubt the eating + drinking during that timeslot is DEADLY. Bodies everywhere. What a mess. No longer.
Thus squeezing and depriving restaurants of desperately needed cash flow. It’s not like they are looking to end all fun (No fun allowed in this New System) and toss employees onto the street (cough, UBI coming in Q1)
This is just science.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
The U.S. had 161,500 Covy cases this Thursday. Canada had 5500. We’ll never catch them now.
On a more serious note, the Fed chairman says “the economy as we knew it might be over”. “The main risk we see today […] is the further spread of disease here in the United States” The story first ran on CNBC and now headlines CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/economy/economy-after-covid-powell/index.html
These comments come 9 days after an election where Trump lost by less than 100,000 votes nationally (Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada) campaigning on Covid being a hoax pandemic, that 99.7% recovered and doctors were faking deaths to make 2k per death. Where the mindset of the nation is sick and diseased, the body soon follows apparently. If Donald J Trump was a mass murderer, more than 72 million Americans would have still voted for him. (some could argue more strongly with each passing day, that’s what went down on Nov 3rd)
Oh just so everyone knows it, your small business and (lack) of rights now depends on 80+ year olds in care homes NOT dying. The stats.
The New System is an inversion of everything. Perfectly healthy people must suffer. Chart to prove it:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmobX2uXcAMTwqD?format=jpg&name=900×900
Blog forget about taxing the remote WFH types just pay the less.
TN… its gonna be hard playing the accordion wearing a barrel with shoulder straps.
Deutsche Bank? Huh?! The same bank that lends to the orange troll is teaching us morals?
cuke and tomato picker——— in the second place I would never admit to watching CNN. It’s as bad as CBC
Faron on 11.12.20 at 8:18
-The overwhelming majority of people still think real estate, including condos, only goes up.
We are miles away from a situation where people are scared of falling condo values, and we are also miles away from prices that don’t resemble anything other than a joke.
This blog is the only one talking about any meaningful price changes whatsoever.
MF
Don’t worry.
They’ll get their tax money.
It’s a liberal drunk debt orgy with no end in sight and no oversight.
You’ll know when the bill comes in. Until then they’ll spend your money foolishly.
The pandemic has given this government an excuse to give you a ride on a train going to nowhere. Subsidies to everyone with promises of much more to come.
The lemonade springs where the bluebird sings in the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
I still can’t understand the anger and outrage over taxing primary residence appreciation over a certain threshold. Why do I get taxed if I buy a stock that quadruples in value when I cash out yet you can buy a single home and do the same and become a millionaire if you just happened to live in a big Canadian city and been born at the right time? Even a 5% tax on homes over a certain level of growth would do a lot to change perceptions of unfairness.
If homes were truly treated as homes I would be against that but that ship sailed. We are now at a point where we will see massive backlash far worse than what I propose here if wealthy, older home owners don’t start being a little more sympathetic to the plight of younger Canadians. Especially those without families who can give them down payments. These are the folks ripe for a Trump-like persona in Canadian politics. If it happens just understand what truly allowed it to grow and fester. ..I got mine. Pull up your boot straps. Stop buying Starbucks and be born in to the ownership class silly.
“A tax on Working From Home? Hah. Good luck getting that passed.”
Its called a “Home Office” licence… alongside my business licence.. my town collects it or a “Home Business” licence… depending on how much “business” you do at your residence…
You don’t really think a local govt starved for tax revenue – since commercial space tax revenue is drying up – is not gonna grab ‘home office workers”; for some permit fees do yah???
and as Garth has mentioned before — home office writeoffs – just like rental income – can impact the principal residence free capital gains.
good luck to those who think govt wont take you for every penny they can squeeze out of yah… welcome to the world of contractors / self employed and all small businesses….
“im from the govt and Im here to help”… :/
#48 Eating my popcorn on 11.12.20 at 6:36 pm
Things are not going back to the old ‘normal’.
Davos Economic Forum founder – Klaus Schwab has a new book on Amazon, read it. It promotes sustainable living, WFH in particular, smaller carbon footprint.
Carbon taxes are reality, have not been removed despite the crisis, but are set to increase.
Your low IQ politicians take their directions from Davos. Sustainable living is on the UN agenda and will be a fact whether you like it or not.
It is not a question of defending life choices/like WFH but protecting the integrity of the system and the responsible. So far our politicians have done exactly the opposite – penalize savers and retirees at the expense of credit junkies. who were getting free ride and uber leveraged capital ‘gains’ from their ‘investments’
This can not go any longer.
As of the fear from the virus Dolce Vita puts it well: People fear that their wonderful superior health care system will no be able to provide them with the service they need. The biggest problem in my mind will be for all who depend on other medical procedures, the chronically ill, those whose diagnosis and surgeries will be delayed.
Always the responsible one are expected to pay.
Only this time they won’t.
Cheers,
Cheers,
Even SASK will be locked down. Understand, the plan it to shut down every (formerly) First World Country. This is the great economic reset. Locktep, by end of November the entire first world will be under total control.
Closing small, medium sized businesses is the only way to health. Your own immune system? Useless. Only new laws may keep you healthy in this New System.
Don’t even think of taking care of your own health.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7458736/covid19-saskatchewan-coronavirus-update-november-12/
More measures considered as Saskatchewan approaches 4,500 total coronavirus cases
There have been 29 COVID-19-related deaths in Saskatchewan
#91 Oakville Rocks! on 11.12.20 at 10:06 pm
Ha Ha. But, but, but what about VisualBasic… ;-)
Semi related, where I work, on the regular we/I get asked if we can provide 5 dimensional (x,y,z,time,var) arrays in an excel compatible format. Cripes, no.
>getting paid less if you’re remote
This is wrong. Remote means more jobs are coming back to Canada from America. The only people (in tech) who are getting paid less due to remote are the silicon valley technocrats that were making half a million dollars a year anyways. I went remote because it was a huge income jump, and I did that before all this covid remote Armageddon began.
>Getting taxed more if you’re remote
You get tax credits for your office space and office equipment. And if you’re not a chud, you’re incorporating and contracting out. Idk man, I think that remote is here to stay for some industries. Covid is the perfect excuse for silicon valley tech to start hiring cheap remote Canadian labour, ultimately driving our incomes up. And let me tell you, Canadian salaries are abysmal compared to Americans’ – which is why Canadian software engineers worth their salt either job hop to the country down south or incorporate as contractors.
Maybe I’m biased because it’s different for my field.
Govts cannot have it both ways. They implored us for years to think green and ensure through one way systems, congestion fees and expensive parking that we did not drive our cars, especially into city centers. Now they are complaining about us finally doing it! Didn’t think this one through did you global govts? One can’t have it both ways.
Those city center coffee shops are toast. Too many of them anyway.
Garth – though you might enjoy this article and have some interesting thoughts on it!
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/can-history-predict-future/616993/
lol
Pretty fun to watch the WFH heads explode. The earnest explanations of how hard they work, how much more productive, the extolling of their virtuous planet-saving…
Thing is, if WFH is so wonderful, why not distribute its benefits via a tax to those who have no option to WFH?
Oh, right. We only like socialist policies when we can benefit for them, not pay for them. We’ll do our important government clerical job in our jammies, those stupid nurses and firemen should have made better life choices.
If tax revenues drop in one area did you really think they won’t try to make them up somewhere else?
There’s a trillion-dollar debt to pay. So get ready to do so.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/deutsche-bank-proposes-a-5percent-tax-for-remote-workers-post-pandemic.html
Why would Deutsche bank propose a 5% tax? Risk is elevating in commercial real estate and condos, no doubt. If the inner cities hollow, revenue drops in buildings and high rises. This isn’t about subsidizing low income earners, its about changing herd mentality to keep rents flowing in buildings. Otherwise, you begin to see a collapse of commercial real estate and the condo industry already impacted by low immigration, work visa and uni numbers, impacting down town centers throughout the western world’s cities.
Of course, you want to stop it. Every sane bank would, but these decisions to tax are brought on by governments. At the end of the day, its elected officials who make the choice to tax or not to tax. The key question is as WFH drags on is, can the real estate industry handle it?
I think it comes down to how well vaccines work and what kind of percentage of the gen pop is vaccinated before the next flu season arrives. Workers will be given the opportunity to come back to down town cores at some point, of this I have no doubt. If they don’t because herd behavior has fundamentally changed, further disruption will ensue and governments will be forced to examine the need to tax far more closely.
It really depends on the direction of this pandemic takes, how much lost revenue the commercial real estate and condo industry can take, what their thresh holds are, and how well industry players can communicate their bottom lines to government assuming that is, governments get this pandemic gets under control by next winter.
I believe by next winter this pandemic will be largely under control, but grave mistakes are still being made in Canada by not addressing deficiencies that weaken immune systems and we need to learn this lesson regardless of what happens. We should have been on this months ago.
Scotland and Ireland have been supplying Vitamin D to high risk groups including those who test positive and the UK is now following their lead. We need to look at what the rest of the world is doing and lead/follow accordingly for the Americas in addressing immune related deficiencies, at the very least starting with cheap vitamin D for anyone who tests positive with Covid, as well as front line workers and the elderly in old age homes. It’s cheap & easy, other nations are doing it and we should follow their lead:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18841488.boris-johnson-set-follow-nicola-sturgeons-policy-vitamin-d-supplies/
@ TurnerNation :
“Oh just so everyone knows it, your small business and (lack) of rights now depends on 80+ year olds in care homes NOT dying.
The New System is an inversion of everything. Perfectly healthy people must suffer.”
***************************************
Bingo! Beyond corporate control and AI, this whole global reset is about inflicting psychological torture and suffering onto the people.
What if you belonged to a group of megalomaniacs who wanted to control the world and have been planning this for a very long time? (The plan is out in the open now). But like so many others in your group, you’ve grown old and decrepit and you know your days are numbered.
You are one of the global elite but suffer from a common enough affliction — you secretly despise the youth for their health, energy and capacity for joy.
The older you get – the more jealous and malevolent you become. Because the best health care on this planet can only buy you a few more miserable years of pill popping and surgeries.
Do you think you’d like to inflict some pain on the young and healthy? Pull as many of them down with you as you could? Sure you would. And you’re also a sociopath with a whole heap of money and the necessary power to do just that.
The days of ‘office-centricity’ are over: Shopify president.
“ There still will be a place for offices, whether that’s for on-sites, or onboarding, or team-building, or white-boarding sessions,” he told BNN Bloomberg’s Jon Erlichman in an interview Thursday. “But in terms of the primary place to organize and to gather being the office, we don’t think that’s going to be the case in the long term.”
Link: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-days-of-office-centricity-are-over-shopify-president-1.1521733
RE #69
Don’t forget #5
Legalize all political parties and allow them on the ballot without restriction or penalty. Then you might have a real selection to choose from.
Once something changes it very seldom ever goes back to the way it was, it’s like the saying you can never go home again. Powell yesterday gave a talk saying that the economy as we know it is over, the change was happening anyway, but the pandemic has sped things up.
Successful cities like Toronto have become crowded, gridlocked, crime rates up and dirty. I moved out of Toronto about 7 years ago to PTBO and when I come down to visit, I just cannot believe what has happened to it and no one knows what to do about it. Just cannot see how I could ever move back.
DELETED
“They propose a 5% tax on these folks (because they’re spending so much less in the real economy)…”
——————————————————————–
Why is it that the solution to everything in Canada always turn out to be more or higher taxes?
#75 Nonplused
Be the grey man. Somebody nobody would notice.
——————————————————————–
That’s how I try to be.
Except, the wife left the garage door open the other day.
Now all the neighbours know I’m the guy on the Harley that rumbles them out of their suburban stupor every now and again.
WFH.
How does a young graduate just out of university or college begin to get some experience and exposure from a WFH situation?
#110 Diamond Dog on 11.13.20 at 5:44 am
—————————————————-
But, we didn’t need covid-19 to understand Vit D. It’s well known Vitamin D helps with bone growth and the immune system. If you live in any part of the northern hemisphere and have darker skin it becomes even more important to have enough Vit D. A simple search will reveal plenty of information.
All of this sounds like the same old tired argument of of a business decision. Centralize, decentralize. The dance continues. Change for the sake of change without actually solving a problem. Just switching to another set of problems and dumping those problems on the successor. Thanks.
STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM PORT DOVER ALL YOU INBRED GERIATRIC SOUTHERN HILLBILLIES ON YOUR CREAKY HARLEYS!!
#80 Nonplused on 11.12.20 at 8:26 pm
Your new voting rules are pretty standard in dictatorships. UtterlyConfused is a pretty good description. Why should someone be forced to vote if they don’t want to? Why should the administration have access to information about who did not vote for them?
Silly ideas.
__________
Sounds like you don’t want to stand behind your decisions and would like other people to pay for them or just call them names.
This thought experiment is not silly at all- and is based on adult idea of personal accountability. You want something, you pay for it. You don’t take it from someone else (my bike is mine, not yours).
Nothing in this idea points to the creation of a dictatorship. Would you call Australia a dictatorship with their mandatory voting system? I’m sure the people of Australia wouldn’t. (If your concerned, you could add some additional laws to prevent the development of dictatorship)
Further, if you don’t want to have mandatory voting. Add the non-voters to the winning party. They will need the financial help anyway. The point is, from the voter perspective —– losing and winning — now both count. In the current system they do not. So you better believe in your party and the decisions they make.
So those who vote the government in (and the non voters if you wish) — they pay all the taxes for the country. And since they believed in the party, voted for them, they should be happy for that suffrage and ecstatic to pay.
Those that supported the losing party, their vote now count for something as they get a tax holiday until the next election and prepare for the time when they might win.
Seems like a fair trade to me.
Elon Musk has cold symptoms.
Here’s his tweet:
“Something extremely bogus is going on. Was tested for covid four times today. Two tests came back negative, two came back positive. Same machine, same test, same nurse. Rapid antigen test from BD.”
Sounds about as accurate as the answers you get when you call the CRA.
Musk is now going for PCR test. Which is ALSO not accurate if you exceed the cycle threshold.
#111 Sky on 11.13.20 at 7:05 am
@ TurnerNation :
“Oh just so everyone knows it, your small business and (lack) of rights now depends on 80+ year olds in care homes NOT dying.
The New System is an inversion of everything. Perfectly healthy people must suffer.”
***************************************
Bingo! Beyond corporate control and AI, this whole global reset is about inflicting psychological torture and suffering onto the people.
What if you belonged to a group of megalomaniacs who wanted to control the world and have been planning this for a very long time? (The plan is out in the open now). But like so many others in your group, you’ve grown old and decrepit and you know your days are numbered.
You are one of the global elite but suffer from a common enough affliction — you secretly despise the youth for their health, energy and capacity for joy.
The older you get – the more jealous and malevolent you become. Because the best health care on this planet can only buy you a few more miserable years of pill popping and surgeries.
Do you think you’d like to inflict some pain on the young and healthy? Pull as many of them down with you as you could? Sure you would. And you’re also a sociopath with a whole heap of money and the necessary power to do just that.
————————————————————————————————
WOW, who pissed in your cornflakes!
#109 BillyBob on 11.13.20 at 5:38 am
lol
Pretty fun to watch the WFH heads explode. The earnest explanations of how hard they work, how much more productive, the extolling of their virtuous planet-saving…
Thing is, if WFH is so wonderful, why not distribute its benefits via a tax to those who have no option to WFH?
Oh, right. We only like socialist policies when we can benefit for them, not pay for them. We’ll do our important government clerical job in our jammies, those stupid nurses and firemen should have made better life choices.
If tax revenues drop in one area did you really think they won’t try to make them up somewhere else?
There’s a trillion-dollar debt to pay. So get ready to do so.
————————————
Your comment in incoherent.
How is it “socialism” to acknowledge that some jobs can be done from home and others cannot, and people should not be penalized for having a job that can be done from home?
And how is WFH something that “has to be paid for”? What?
#171 Ace Goodheart on 11.12.20 if you cannot stand in even a supermarket by law this also means you may not stand in a museum, art gallery, hockey game, zoo, school sports games or talent shows or theatres or place of worship. Yep the total destruction of the Old System way of life is the goal. (Iraq was the testing ground as they stood by and let Museums and culture be looted and destroyed. It made our news. For a reason).
All that matters is the Daily – an changing – CV protocols. Classic psychological conditioning. Watch the telescreens for the daily update from the death cult. Comply. If you all would just comply then we get freedoms back!! The problem is not the new world order it’s the non-compliers.
Same old – now it has moved to online.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session
In general, the victim of a struggle session was forced to admit various crimes before a crowd of people who would verbally and physically abuse the victim until they confessed. Struggle sessions were often held at the workplace of the accused, but they were sometimes conducted in sports stadiums where large crowds would gather if the target was well-known.[1]
@#112 Captain Uppa on 11.13.20 at 7:09 am
The days of ‘office-centricity’ are over: Shopify president.
“ There still will be a place for offices, whether that’s for on-sites, or onboarding, or team-building, or white-boarding sessions,” he told BNN Bloomberg’s Jon Erlichman in an interview Thursday. “But in terms of the primary place to organize and to gather being the office, we don’t think that’s going to be the case in the long term.”
Link: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-days-of-office-centricity-are-over-shopify-president-1.1521733
—
Indeed.
both my wife and I and our circle of friends/family with desk jobs all work from home permanently now. In my case a small office will remain for onboarding etc but most others are currently try to sublet their office space.
Have to say I never imagined WFH would be for me but I love it. work way smarter and way more productive in less hours and when the kids aren’t in school we head to the cottage and work from there. what’s no to like?.
Also save a boatload of $$s not buying coffee/lunch/parking/gas
@#113 Dog Breath on 11.13.20 at 7:58 am
“They propose a 5% tax on these folks (because they’re spending so much less in the real economy)…”
——————————————————————–
Why is it that the solution to everything in Canada always turn out to be more or higher taxes?
–
umm, that was in Germany.
Actually the numbers the bank study ran were for the US and Germany. And to be clear for all the bloviating WFH warriors on this thread, the proposal was not mine. Learn to read. – Garth
@#124 Paul on 11.13.20 at 8:43 am
#111 Sky on 11.13.20 at 7:05 am
@ TurnerNation :
“Oh just so everyone knows it, your small business and (lack) of rights now depends on 80+ year olds in care homes NOT dying.
The New System is an inversion of everything. Perfectly healthy people must suffer.”
***************************************
Bingo! Beyond corporate control and AI, this whole global reset is about inflicting psychological torture and suffering onto the people.
What if you belonged to a group of megalomaniacs who wanted to control the world and have been planning this for a very long time? (The plan is out in the open now). But like so many others in your group, you’ve grown old and decrepit and you know your days are numbered.
You are one of the global elite but suffer from a common enough affliction — you secretly despise the youth for their health, energy and capacity for joy.
The older you get – the more jealous and malevolent you become. Because the best health care on this planet can only buy you a few more miserable years of pill popping and surgeries.
Do you think you’d like to inflict some pain on the young and healthy? Pull as many of them down with you as you could? Sure you would. And you’re also a sociopath with a whole heap of money and the necessary power to do just that.
————————————————————————————————
WOW, who pissed in your cornflakes!
–
he pisses in his own cornflakes.
he’s that type of guy.
Last week I had an interesting WFH experience. I had always been wondering how it would be to WFH in a research laboratory setting but since I am retired and only occasionally acting as an advisor to people I don’t get to work very often so had not yet experienced WFH.
So, a group of us had a Zoom meeting. It worked perfectly and we figured things out quickly and efficiently. Next day I was able to help a person using a highly technical piece of equipment by using a video phone call. It also worked perfectly.
I think the WFH is not for everybody and it is better to be working with a group of people and being there “live” because most humans are very social and there are all sorts of subtle body language things that you can’t duplicate in a Zoom meeting or video call. And you can be there for a longer time and maybe spot something that is going on that is causing problems. But when it is the only way you can do something, it works.
I can see that all this WFH technology would be quite useful for passing on knowledge from one generation to another. When I was working it would have been fantastic to have a video call with a world renowned expert to have them appraise your technique and offer suggestions for improvement.
Their is nothing beneficial from working at home for men except added extra stress and gradual lower work productivity.
Men are meant to ’til the soil,’ not listen to their wife and kids screaming upstairs while sitting in their pajama’s hiding in the garage w/a laptop trying to work. Hey – we ordered you a webcam so we can see you now – oh great, ill go comb my face.
Ask the mental, domestic and child abuse hotlines and see how great it is with everyone home.
Interesting exodus chart btw…
DON’T GO TO PORT DOVER YOU DOTARDS!
EVEN DOUG TRUMP SAYS SO!
https://www.680news.com/2020/11/12/doug-ford-wants-people-to-skip-friday-the-13th-rally-in-port-dover/
#109 BillyBob on 11.13.20 at 5:38 am
lol
Pretty fun to watch the WFH heads explode. The earnest explanations of how hard they work, how much more productive, the extolling of their virtuous planet-saving…
Thing is, if WFH is so wonderful, why not distribute its benefits via a tax to those who have no option to WFH?
————————————————————
Wait, you have no option to work from home? Are you being held captive by your current employer?
If you want a WFH job, go get one. WFH pre Covid was growing at double digits. My company has had thousands of WFH employees for decades. Start a small business.
There really is no need to justify WFH, for most private orgs, the benefits to the employee and employer have been known for years. The dinosaurs that don’t trust technology and need to physically see their employees will holdout, but this change has been in full flight since the 90s.
And yes, Fire Fighters can’t work from home. They also run into fires, which IMO is more challenging then commuting to the fire hall.
@ Paul
“WOW, who pissed in your cornflakes!”
*******************************
Can’t point to any specific elitist/sociopath who’s forcing this swill down our throats. Some are still behind the curtain, although enough are openly crowing about their agenda.
I know it’s not the triumvirate of Bezos, Dorsey or Zuck. They don’t own the business. They just operate the machinery. Bezos runs the marketplace and Zuck and Dorsey control the information most people see and pull the levers of censorship.
Politicians are merely the footsoldiers who take the flak for the true power brokers.
These ultra-privileged elites have been coddled and kowtowed to their entire lives to such an extent that their egos are almost beyond comprehension. Throw in their love of technology and you can see why they assume they are rightfully about to become immortal.
It comes as quite a shock to the system when it dawns on them that technology may not be able to save their lives after all. That – gasp! – they will die just like the commoners they rule over and loathe.
It’s a deadly mistake to project your own decent intentions and morals onto others. Governments don’t operate this way (biggest mass murderers in history). And neither do the elite. As we are all about to find out.
@#130 George S on 11.13.20 at 9:17 am
Last week I had an interesting WFH experience. I had always been wondering how it would be to WFH in a research laboratory setting but since I am retired and only occasionally acting as an advisor to people I don’t get to work very often so had not yet experienced WFH.
So, a group of us had a Zoom meeting. It worked perfectly and we figured things out quickly and efficiently. Next day I was able to help a person using a highly technical piece of equipment by using a video phone call. It also worked perfectly.
I think the WFH is not for everybody and it is better to be working with a group of people and being there “live” because most humans are very social and there are all sorts of subtle body language things that you can’t duplicate in a Zoom meeting or video call. And you can be there for a longer time and maybe spot something that is going on that is causing problems. But when it is the only way you can do something, it works.
I can see that all this WFH technology would be quite useful for passing on knowledge from one generation to another. When I was working it would have been fantastic to have a video call with a world renowned expert to have them appraise your technique and offer suggestions for improvement.
—
for a small fee you can have a B/C level celeb join your zoom call these days. Gary Busey and Jake the snake are apparently pocketing alot of $$s this way.
A good article about flying under the radar financially.
http://www.financialsamurai.com/?s=stealth+wealth
RE: #121 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 11.13.20 at 8:27 am
STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM PORT DOVER ALL YOU INBRED GERIATRIC SOUTHERN HILLBILLIES ON YOUR CREAKY HARLEYS!!
/////////////////////////////////////////////
Wow, you are brave.
Since when were a bunch of bikers “cottagers”?
Maybe you want to head over to Port Dover to meet them on their way in, and tell them face to face, they are not wanted?
#123 Sky on 11.13.20 at 8:36 am
Elon Musk has cold symptoms.
Here’s his tweet:
“Something extremely bogus is going on. Was tested for covid four times today. Two tests came back negative, two came back positive. Same machine, same test, same nurse. Rapid antigen test from BD.”
Sounds about as accurate as the answers you get when you call the CRA.
Musk is now going for PCR test. Which is ALSO not accurate if you exceed the cycle threshold.
—————-
Maybe these tests only work on humans? Elon is just visiting to transfer higher knowledge before returning to his own planet.
For the bug experts in this comments section on this part-time bug weblog, good news. Official govt web sites.
Kanada:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2020-2021/week-44-october-25-october-31-2020.html
In week 44, eight laboratory detections of influenza were reported (Figure 2). These eight influenza detections were known to be associated with recent live attenuated influenza vaccine (LAIV) receipt in four individuals and likely represent vaccine-type virus rather than community circulation of seasonal influenza viruses.
USA:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/
Key Updates for Week 44, ending October 31, 2020
Seasonal influenza activity in the United States remains low.
Nationwide during week 44, 1.3% of patient visits reported through the U.S. Outpatient Influenza-like Illness Surveillance Network (ILINet) were due to influenza-like illness (ILI). This percentage is below the national baseline of 2.6%.
Really interesting comments here on biometrics.
I did not know so many people were so against it.
I don’t see it as limiting a person’s freedoms, I see it as giving a person more freedoms.
You take the average third world, unregistered, undocumented person. Do you know how it is to be that person?
The documents are everything. I have been to the third world (many times). Without documents, you have no identity. You are not really “a person” in the sense that we like to think about it. An undocumented person doesn’t have human rights.
Just look at how they are treated in Canada. They put them in prison and just keep them there, while their deportation hearing goes through. Some of them are in prison for years. They have committed no crime. They just can’t prove who they are.
Head over to Central America, Belize, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama. If you are undocumented, your hope for a better life is like, “I wish I could get across the border to Mexico, where things are so much better”.
Can you imagine? I can come and go from any country I like, just by flashing one of my two passports (Canadian, British). For an undoc, that is a dream. That is not even fathomable for most of them.
So the situation you folks are seeking, where you can exist without any government control, any documents at all, already exists. For about 90% of the world’s population, they have been in that situation all of their lives. And it sucks, hard.
The way I see it, I like to leverage my first world birth to the max. I can carry a passport that allows me to walk around the hordes of people who gather at Costa Rica’s airport each day, looking for a way out. I flash that passport, and all of a sudden, I am different from 99% of the people in the third world hell hole I am visiting.
That is what you want to get rid of? That power? That connection to a larger system that crushes any hope of most people on earth, to ever even walk eye to eye with you?
I think that is frankly nuts. Leverage your documents. That is the way of doing it. If an iris scan makes me into a being that can do things that 99% of the people on earth cannot, then that works for me.
Ontario numbers Nov 12th
98 in ICU
62 on Vent
Population of ON 15 million
How many hospitals in ON, four to five hundred
A positive test is not a case, MSM very much dicks around with language but the illiterate don’t know that.
We are all living on our knees but too many sars2braindead just can’t feel it or see it.
As Ive mentioned many tines I have a hate on for our government.
Owning multipule business over the years you see the cost of biz going up up up due to increase controls and regulations. Soon you will have to certify your toothbrush annualy… I could go on and on but this little article speakes for itself.
Gov is the F#%@#% problem. If you gave them all your income they would still be broke.
https://financialpost.com/executive/executive-summary/posthaste-the-real-reason-homes-in-canadas-big-cities-are-unaffordable
“There’s a trillion-dollar debt to pay.”
You’re thinking about this wrong, but you’re not alone.
When a client of Garth’s gets a bond coupon payment, or a return of principal when the bond matures, what happens? Does that person say “Phew, the government repaid its debt to me. I was worried because I thought they might not repay it. They are being irresponsible with debt, and debasing the currency. I’ll take the money and buy a yacht, or an acreage.” They do not. They buy another bond, to keep their portfolio balanced. Holds a bond ETF instead? The ETF manager reinvests the repaid principal into more bonds, for a fee.
You really think there’s hordes of millionaires and billionaires out there sweating about the government paying off its debts? Like maybe by raising taxes? LOL
#137 Ace Goodheart on 11.13.20 at 10:00 am
RE: #121 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 11.13.20 at 8:27 am
STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM PORT DOVER ALL YOU INBRED GERIATRIC SOUTHERN HILLBILLIES ON YOUR CREAKY HARLEYS!!
/////////////////////////////////////////////
Wow, you are brave.
Since when were a bunch of bikers “cottagers”?
Maybe you want to head over to Port Dover to meet them on their way in, and tell them face to face, they are not wanted?
————————————————————————————————
Keyboard Cowards, face to face say nothing or cry.
#119 Squire on 11.13.20 at 8:11 am
Yep.
@Turner Nation #8
Medical tyranny is off the charts in BC and it’s no coincidence Harvey Oberfeld had to go to Puget Sound Radio (an American channel) to get his article published. Canadian media is absolutely NOT covering the insanity going on in BC right now in the name of COVID-19. Even Rebel News barely discusses it, while bringing us daily updates from Melbourne, Australia!!! Nobody cares about us. We can’t tell our stories from BC. I am censored across most of the internet.
Harvey Oberfeld is a retired investigatuve journalist who used to cover BC-Ottawa relations for Global News. He is an absolute titan and people should listen to him. How pathetic he had to go to a USA Pacific Northwest media outlet to publish his article. It’s a prime example of BC’s second-clasa status within Canada and Western Canada.
What frightens me is the government imposing a “beauty tax”. Us 1 percenters in the looks department are well aware of envy from the plain masses. Since there is a correlation of high intelligence with good looks, we also get penalized for high incomes. Instead of dragging down the good looking, they should elevate the lumpen masses. Perhaps mandatory gym memberships and grooming standards.
Wish I could work from home but I cant get logs thru the front door. I’d like to, but The Wife has said, “No.”
Back to the shed it is. Just a coffee break, carry on.
WFH reduces overhead costs for employers by transferring those costs to employees. WFH also reduces the burden on transit and road infrastructure. So WFH employees should cut a tax CUT, not a tax increase. It’s the same logic the right-wing used to support foreign ownership of Vancouver real estate: They don’t use services like transit or roads while bringing money into the economy, so that was seen as a good thing. But when ordinary Canadians arenin that position, banks say raise their taxes! Wow just wow!
Turner Nation said: “I’m astonished that you’re speaking favourably of this idea Garth.”
I’m not surprised. Garth always takes the position against the working class. There’s never been a tax hike that Garth didn’t scream to high heaven about. Until this. He’s just always off side from working class Canadians. He has said terrible things to me over the years. He still denies HAM in Vancouver. He’s everything that is wrong today with conservatism. Is Garth even a conservative? He has more SJW sympathies than many BC NDP ers I know!
Awww, poor Tommy. Was I rough with you? Hug? – Garth
There are a lot of privileged people on here who have no clue how oppressive office work environments have become. The commute alone is totally exhausting before you even get to work. I’ve tried to speak about these things for many years but I am constantly censored. Many office work places are incredibly toxic work environments, especially for new staff who lack seniority and for men too.
@Sky #111
Excellent comment. Absolutely the burden of lockdowns is disproportionately felt by the young– the very same people dealing with poor job prospects and impossibly high housing costs. Yet, aside from some exceptions, conservatives generally crap all over Millennials and anyone younger. The comments section on Zerohedge is absolutely filled with bigotry against the young. Conservatives are part of the problem.
Not sure about taxing the WFH crowd because they’re spending less on public transit, clothing, day care, and so on. That doesn’t really sound fair. In that case what about the frugal and the FIRE community? I have a friend who works in coding and recently moved across the country to be able to afford a home and live closer to his family. The company he works for is in BC and he now lives in Ontario. I don’t understand why a company would pay my buddy an almost 6 figure salary to WFH. If the job can be done from anywhere wouldn’t hiring someone in Ecuador, India, Sri Lanka make more sense?
I don’t know why people work for a living. its seems a big hassle. stay home and collect a cheque from the government and work for cash like everyone I see and deal with, the lady running a full food delivery business from her garage, the printer guy, from his garage, the auto mechanic from his house, the hair dresser from her house and on and on.
it seems kinda funny that more regular people are now doing it. they will like it, cash, no paperwork or issues, in the ethnic marketplace its very common. I even know an underground dental hygienist. and a million different construction people .
#154 crossbordershopper on 11.13.20 at 2:12 pm
I don’t know why people work for a living. its seems a big hassle. stay home and collect a cheque from the government and work for cash like everyone I see and deal with, the lady running a full food delivery business from her garage, the printer guy, from his garage, the auto mechanic from his house, the hair dresser from her house and on and on.
it seems kinda funny that more regular people are now doing it. they will like it, cash, no paperwork or issues, in the ethnic marketplace its very common. I even know an underground dental hygienist. and a million different construction people .
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Cash currency is being replaced…for many reasons. Central banks, Govts and big tech fast tracking. Visa and MasterCard also launching them ie, Coinbase Card a debit Visa card. Reserve Bank of India says 86% of country’s cash effectively banned.
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/10/central-banks-and-bis-publish-first-central-bank-digital-currency-cbdc-report/
https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/central-bank-digital-currencies-would-increase-governments-grip-on-money-with-few-benefits-for-the-rest-of-us-2020-06-17
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/commentary/article-the-digital-currency-arms-race-central-banks-enter-the-fray-to/
https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/Policy-Papers/Issues/2020/10/17/Digital-Money-Across-Borders-Macro-Financial-Implications-49823
#140 Ace Goodheart not so – “undocumented” aka Refugees are, always processed. No ID or biometrics required.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/refugees-canada-pandemic-mendicino-1.5797361#
“The federal government says that, despite lockdowns and travel restrictions, Canada is now resettling about 250 refugees per week after admissions slowed to a trickle due to the global pandemic, and has welcomed nearly 6,000 refugees since January.
That’s still substantially lower than the government’s 2020 target of nearly 32,000 refugees.”
Wow Garth is a little Trumpy. I mean Grumpy today
Enjoy your weekend all
#147 Handsome Ned on 11.13.20 at 12:19 pm
What frightens me is the government imposing a “beauty tax”. Us 1 percenters in the looks department are well aware of envy from the plain masses. Since there is a correlation of high intelligence with good looks, we also get penalized for high incomes. Instead of dragging down the good looking, they should elevate the lumpen masses. Perhaps mandatory gym memberships and grooming standards.
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Exactly!
Why all the hate all the time toward those of us who are tall, handsome, successful, talented and rich?
Jackals
#88 KLNR
Nah, the point was, the less one flaunts it the less problems they have with those eager to take advantage; to each their own!
Ever read the Millionaire Next Door?
#140 oslerscodes on 10.06.20 at 9:52 pm
Replying to #14, #19 and my critical care colleague @ #39.
The reckoning will come 10 days after Thanksgiving.
The number of ICU beds quoted is inflated and takes into account every OR, PACU bay and decommissioned space in the hospital – but not staff, equipment or ventilators. The ventilator number includes every anesthetic gas machine, private OR machine, training ventilator from our local colleges and whatever the vets and zoos could give up – all of these have been returned to their rightful owners.
We cared for > 90 COVID patients in our ICUs during wave 1. We started last week at 90% capacity and 0 COVID patients. By the weekend there were 3. Now there are 8, others with pending tests. I’ve personally admitted 3 in the past 28 hours – that alone matches the entire provincial total west of Mississauga.
We’re doubling every 4 days. This isn’t politics. It’s math.
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A little over a month ago I wrote the above comment. Thought I might revisit it.
Sitting in the call room again – 3rd of 6 back-to-back-to-back-to-back shifts in the hospital each lasting 34 hours with an overnight to see the family and sleep in my own bed before back at it. Anticipate this to carry on through Easter – after all President Trump said Easter would be “beautiful” – he didn’t lie he just didn’t tell you the year.
Patients now coming to my hospital requiring a ventilator will be shipped out. No more rooms, no more staff. No triage yet but the threshold to get an ICU bed has gone up significantly. Multiple patients on 100% oxygen on the medical and surgical wards.
If you had a surgery that requires you to stay overnight in hospital – you will be getting rebooked for sometime in 2021. Not sure which month.
Positive test rate has been ~15% for the week – each of those patients are just days away from actually getting sick and showing up.
Hope you enjoyed Thanksgiving and Halloween with your friends and family. Sure, have your friends over – you know them well enough they’re probably fine and it couldn’t happen to you (the number of times I’ve heard this before I put someone to sleep for 3-4 weeks and placed a tube through their vocal cords I can’t count).
Just one guy living on the front lines
Why is everyone still so freaked out about the virus? Is it the evil mind warping influence of social media that has distorted everyone’s perception of reality? I think maybe it is. That, plus the incessant parroting of the false narrative by the gutless mainstream media. Have we all turned into gullible zombies? I think yes. Most of us, anyway. Independent, rational thinking is so rare these days. Reality indicates one thing, but Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, CBC, CTV, 680 News, CNN, FOX, CNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS say something else. If it’s on the air or the internet, it must be true, even though my personal experience is something totally different. Defer to the narrative, or be run over. That’s the message. Social media is the true culprit, I think. It has wormed its way into the brains of the particularly naive, gullible, ignorant, paranoid, stupid, insecure, narcissistic, self consumed, easily distracted, non-critical thinkers of our sorry society. These people seem to believe the swill of disinformation that they are unknowingly force fed daily, hourly, by the minute, and by the second. As long as they get “likes”, life is good. Stay locked down. WFH. Be afraid. Don’t argue. Oh look! I was just tagged in a photo. Yay!
I know in my industry, the second we can come back, we’ll come back. I won’t get into what that industry is, but it’s absolutely a workaround that so many of us are at home. There are still people in the office because they must be. My department is more costly at home for reasons I won’t get into, but we’re doing the best we can.
However, what I do see going forward, is the flexibility. Now that we have the infrastructure to do so, I can’t imagine that once we’re back to business as usual that if someone wants to work at home here or there due to personal reasons, or simply because they have a little cold they’d rather not expose everyone to, that our employer would say no.
I have been wondering what in the world people are thinking moving so far away from the city, when their work is centralized in the city. Banking on certainty right now seems daft. How can anyone be sure they won’t have to come back into an office? Signing up for an epic commute after over-paying for a house seems like a recipe for trouble down the road.
If you paid 150K more than the area norm and you have to sell because you need to relocate back to the city, who will buy that house off you for the same price? Or do you just resign yourself to a 2-hour commute each way?
Other people’s behaviour never fails to confuse me.