Herd immunity

Remember the words posted here weeks ago about the coming condo collapse? Well, presto. It’s here. At least the beginning. Right on cue.

For example, a one-bedder unit just steps away from the sky-darkening bank towers at King & Bay in the Big Smoke was commanding $1,200 for each of its six hundred feet in March, before Covid came to town. This week? That’s down to $785 a foot, which is a fat 34% discount from the market value just seven months ago.

But there’s more. Says the listing agent, desperately: “***Seller Will Pay 6 Month Maintanence Fees If Sold By Oct 15,2020***” (realtor spelling, not mine). That monthly condo fee, by the way, is $800. So knock another five grand off the price.

Bottom line: a fully-renovated, low-rise unit in a great building in a hot location that commanded $720,000 pre-virus is now on the market for $480,000. Odds are the seller is a dude who was renting it out for two hundred a night as a perfect downtown Airbnb unit (now illegal) or soaking $2,250 a month from a young legal secretary in a gleaming skyscraper who’s now WFHing in mom’s basement in Ajax.

And rents? Pshaw. As we told you, there’s already been a 15% reduction in the cost of leasing a condo in Toronto, with rates now eroding in Vancouver and Montreal where new condos are starting to come online and listings pile up. Too much supply, not enough demand. It’s classic.

This week the global financial press started to take notice. “In the world’s big financial centers — from New York to Toronto to London to Sydney — rents for inner-city apartments are plunging,” reports Bloomberg. “International students who normally bolster demand are stuck at home and young renters — the most mobile group in real estate — are finding fewer reasons to pay a premium to live in what is, for now, no longer the center of things.”

Everywhere, a similar story. Demand has been eroded by an abrupt halt to immigration, the shuttering of major office complexes, the meme that workers will never have to go downtown again (amusing), cities curtaining mass transit, a reduction in Airbnb’s toxic presence, uni students learning online plus a flowering of the suburbs and real estate with front doors and back yards as work-from-homers crave more space and fewer germs.

Meanwhile supply is erupting as new residential complexes come to market, negative cash flow crushes amateur investors, short-term rental hosts have no clients and the tenant pool dries up along with jobs in restaurants, bars, clubs, hotels, offices and downtown retail outlets. (For example, sales are down more than 90% for stores and services along the Path – that glitzy 30-km-long underground complex beneath the pavement in Toronto.)

“With remote working in vogue for everyone from banks to tech companies,” adds Bloomberg, “and the quirky shops and bars that made living in a city fun curtailed, the equation about where to live is changing. And so is the balance of power between landlords and tenants.”

Exactly.

So, there are some lessons here.

Like never get caught up in FOMO. For the past few years urban DT condos have been hot properties as thousands of units hit the market at ever-rising prices and ever-smaller footprints. In a place like Toronto most were bought from plans in the pre-con phase, at least half by people who never intended to occupy them. Even with competition among tenants, those big mortgages and high ownership costs meant more than 40% of all landlords were losing money. So long as valuations were increasing, the suckers were willing to eat the loss. But now? Whoops.

Lesson: buy stuff that makes money. Speculation can kill you.

Another one (very radical): buy low, not high.

People flocked to condo investments because (a) financing was cheap and easy to get, (b) they like the overlord feeling of being an landlord, extracting rent from serfs, (c) real estate values always go up while financial assets are risky and (b) everyone else was doing it. In reality, landlording costs usually exceeded income, any net profit was 100% taxed and because most people bought into a rising wave, they’re now being Hoovered.

But I know this takes courage. To resist the crowd’s siren song when an asset is expensive, inflated, sexy and aroused. And, equally, to buy things that are unloved, declining, deflating, cheap and flaccid. Today the crowd is storming Hicksville, jacking values of dodgy houses in cities where commuting downtown is impossible and/or suicidal. Also today we have a 34% drop in the value of prime downtown units amid the belief that what happened over the last eight months will set the scene for the future. Forever and amen.

Apparently the herd never learns. And thank goodness for the rest of us.

183 comments ↓

#1 T on 10.21.20 at 12:31 pm

When is the condo buying opportunity? Now?

#2 Captain Uppa on 10.21.20 at 12:40 pm

How many condos will you be buying, Garth?

#3 Leftover on 10.21.20 at 12:49 pm

Many of those “investors” financed the down payment using HELOC money (now not allowed).

So the equity haircut comes off the single family residence in many cases. Still wondering why 20% of mortgages were deferred?

Oops, at least. Maybe worse is yet to come.

#4 Chris Hampton on 10.21.20 at 12:55 pm

The fees, condo, maintenance fees, $500 to $1,000 a month, crazy, insane. Just that money alone will be worth millions in a 6% annual return diversified portfolio.

Just like when it happened in the big financial, real estate crash in 2008-2009 in the US from Florida, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and many others states, people fleeing their condo units those left were seeing big condo, maintenance monthly fees increases passed on to them as less of them paying with empty condo units occupied and owned.

#5 Captain Uppa on 10.21.20 at 12:56 pm

In my humblest of opinions, never buy a condo. If you want to own RE, buy dirt. If you can’t afford dirt where you want, move and find another job.

Otherwise, just rent a condo if you need hipster pizza fast and be within walking distance of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

#6 blobby on 10.21.20 at 12:57 pm

***Seller Will Pay 6 Month Maintanence Fees If Sold By Oct 15,2020***

Well that made it easy to google. I dont know the area, but $500k for a pokey little condo like that is still waay to much, wake me up when it’s below 300.

#7 Divv on 10.21.20 at 12:58 pm

Really eager to see what type of actions are being taken by lenders as mortgage deferrals wind down. Numerous articles citing court backlogs, meaning foreclosures could take 6+ months to move through courts. Regardless of that, it is hard to fathom why a distressed borrower and/or the stiffed lender would not sooner pursue a sale than to proceed with a court-based foreclosure.

#8 3s on 10.21.20 at 12:59 pm

Hmmmm

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/wasteful-damaging-and-outmoded-is-it-time-to-stop-building-skyscrapers?utm_source=pocket-newtab

#9 Long-Time Lurker on 10.21.20 at 1:04 pm

Hey, Garth. I had a dream last night where you became the Prime Minister. You never know unless you try.

#10 Long-Time Lurker on 10.21.20 at 1:06 pm

Zoolander 3. Script update. Outside the House of Commons.

Prime Minister Zoolander: “If you investigate the We-Brainwash charity, you’ll trigger a non-confidence vote. Besides, we have nothing to hide so there shouldn’t be an investigation.”

Ernie “Mr. Inclusive” D’Tool: “If you have nothing to hide then you’ll let us carry out an investigation. We-Brainwash is looking like a pig-trough for your family and friends… Let alone being a charity.”

Socialist Sing: “Don’t blame me for a non-confidence vote. We had our backroom deal. You dance bhangra and I support you.”

#11 Graphics Girl on 10.21.20 at 1:07 pm

Very tempting to snatch one up in Toronto. Just tell us when the bottom is Garth!

#12 Long-Time Lurker on 10.21.20 at 1:08 pm

About that dream of you becoming Prime Minister, Garth. I was surprised and shocked at it. I wouldn’t be able to crack jokes about a Prime Minister again.

#13 belly rubs on 10.21.20 at 1:12 pm

Toronto is… “no longer the center of things.”

Things are overrated. There is more LiFe in a patch of meadow than in an urban centre. Follow your dog… get down on your hands and knees and snoot around, take a micro tour.

#14 SoggyShorts on 10.21.20 at 1:13 pm

#67 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 10:25 pm
#53 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 8:01 pm
#167 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 3:06 pm
#161 Faron on 10.20.20 at 2:13 pm
#151 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 12:25 pm
I gotta say, that sounds a LOT like what I was warning about:
Voting Trump because the left will call you a bigot for not placing pronouns in your bio?
I haven’t checked, but I’m fairly certain that’s not the platform they are running on.

“A totalitarian nightmare” is not a phrase that someone who is getting a balanced diet of information would use.

Basic tip: If either the left or the right looks like they are the anti-christ/nazis/terrorists/baby-eaters, you need to step back and relax. The extreme fringe is too loud and you’re listening to it too often.

////////

Thanks for mansplaining how women shouldn’t worry their little heads over the loss of their sex-based rights.

The people and groups that have reached peak woke BS are racially diverse, and are comprised of both left and right ends of the political spectrum. Radical feminists are not right wing, but they are happy to work with the right to preserve women’s rights.

Women are already losing their jobs for saying men can’t become women. We’re unlikely to be dissuaded by uninformed liberals who think men with paraphilias have the right to identify as women, for any and all legal purpose.
*****************************
1. I didn’t even know that you identified as a woman, so I’m not sure if it counts as mansplaining.
2.Your arguments are all over the map. I pointed out that the extreme on both sides are not representative of the middle, and you point out that the extremely woke are on both sides?
How is that different, and how do you immediately follow up by pointing out that it’s liberals who are doing damage with extreme wokeness?
Which is it? are the extremely woke bi-partisan or liberal only?

3. Your priorities are ridiculous.
How can you be more concerned with the extreme left canceling a few women for saying the latest non-PC thing compared to the far-right putting a 6th and probably 7th or 8th conservative supreme court justice on the bench who will almost certainly overturn roe v. wade?
How on earth can you be worried about women’s sex-based rights and want a conservative supermajority on the bench for the next 40 years?

#15 n1tro on 10.21.20 at 1:18 pm

“Lesson: buy stuff that makes money. Speculation can kill you.

Another one (very radical): buy low, not high.”
—————-
I don’t know about everyone else but I picked up some Scotiabank shares today. Cheap relative to 5yr chart paying 6.48%.

#16 GBiddy on 10.21.20 at 1:20 pm

Yup, a great man once called downturns in markets–and condos are certainly a market–buying opportunities.

That said, a day hardly passes when I don’t thank the good Lord above for gifting me with the foresight to dump the two rental condos I owned back in 2018.

The writing was on the wall back then. Increasing costs, worse tenants, more hassles, aging building etc. I dodged the condo building insurance crisis in BC as well.

Tired of toilets and leaking sinks, I plowed the proceeds into growth-oriented Index funds–US, CAN, and International–thanks to the advice of another great man. Now, time to add REITs (selling at about 50% off and tasty divvies!).

What I learned: buying opportunities only have value if you know when to sell. Tens of thousands of amateur landlords and specu-vestors, sadly, did not.

Blood in the streets folks, blood in the streets.

#17 yvr_lurker on 10.21.20 at 1:20 pm

Well, I would not have bought a condo then at the previous inflated prices in the inner city, and nor would I buy one now in the deflating inner city market. Even when I was getting on the property ladder years ago, buying a little tiny box in the sky so that I could easily get to work was not appealing. I’d much rather have more space living farther away (but still on a good commuting route). Are you saying that it is a good time to buy a condo in the inner city? I think there is still much more downside to this. Seems like catching a falling knife buying something now. If I was in the market I’d wait until spring when the world is still wrestling with Covid and we all realize that “THE VACCINE” (which will not work so well) is not the panacea that everyone is hoping for.

#18 Old Ron the Realtor on 10.21.20 at 1:22 pm

To # 1 T

No not now. Not this year.

Don’t buy a T.O Condo until they are throwing the deck furniture off the balcony, or bullets are flying through the walls from your neighbours condo……. Oh wait that happened already.

Very few web sites other than this one are talking about the crash. MSM isn’t touching the story. Buy when absolutely everyone is saying “never buy a Condo, worst investment ever.“ That’s when you start signing low ball offers.

In Garth’s game that is called “capitulation” and we are along way from that.

#19 Burn Baby Burn on 10.21.20 at 1:24 pm

Burning for You
Blue Öyster Cult
Home in the valley
Home in the city
Home isn’t pretty
Ain’t no home for me
Home in the darkness
Home on the highway
Home isn’t my way
Home will never be
Burn out the day
Burn out the night
I can’t see no reason to put up a fight
I’m living for giving the devil his due
And I’m burning, I’m burning, I’m burning for you
I’m burning, I’m burning, I’m burning for you
Time is the essence
Time is the season
Time ain’t no reason
Got no time to slow
Time everlasting
Time to play b-sides
Time ain’t on my side
Time I’ll never know
Burn out the day
Burn out the night
I’m not the one to tell you what’s wrong or what’s right
I’ve seen suns that were freezing and lives that were through
Well I’m burning, I’m burning, I’m burning for you
I’m burning, I’m burning,…

Source: LyricFind

#20 Doug t on 10.21.20 at 1:28 pm

Condo “maintenance” fees – the blackhole of condo ownership :)

#21 TurnerNation on 10.21.20 at 1:29 pm

Point of order. Gleaned from Reddit today. There’re baaack.
As an aside isn’t amazing a disease is being used to herd healthy people? Our lives will be rules by something we do not have, in New System.

http://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/coronavirus-covid19/students/approved-dli.html

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Designated learning institutions reopening to international students
As of October 20, 2020, some designated learning institutions (DLIs) are now able to reopen to international students who aren’t currently in Canada and who have, or have been approved for, a study permit are travelling to Canada for a non-discretionary or non-optional purpose

#22 Hank Stapleton on 10.21.20 at 1:39 pm

n1tro, you maybe right longer term as current stock price of $42.40 but is not the high in the $56 to 57 stock price back in 2018. I would not be surprised to see another 2 years of dividends lost 13% drop in the stock price to $37 to $37.50 per share.

There is smaller but real possibility it revisiting of $32 to $33 per share price earlier this year April-2020 or a 23%+ drop in price from current levels. A $25 to 26 stock price back in 2009 was the last time we saw 40% drop in the stock price.

#23 Don't forget ... on 10.21.20 at 1:41 pm

#20 Doug t on 10.21.20 at 1:28 pm
Condo “maintenance” fees – the blackhole of condo ownership :)
———————————
the dreaded “special assessment.” They can ruin your day too …

#24 Dolce Vita on 10.21.20 at 2:05 pm

“…resist the crowd’s siren song.”

-Silver tongued. Nice.

————————

Calmati Canada. Calmati.

I read in the Comments more and more frustration about what is happening around you be it finances, the DAMN VIRUS or Real Estate or THE HERD or what have you.

You are the most educated populace on Planet Earth. You have untold wealth in resources including yourselves. You are a pluralistic modern society in an advanced technological land. Look at yourselves in the mirror and know this:

THIS TOO SHALL COME TO PASS

and My Liege has been hammering that home near every Blog and he is correct, oh SO correct.

A love song from one Italia’s favorite sons for you Canada, from me (English subtitles):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDEdZfnULIg

And if you prefer a good cry, well there is always this (same guy, his best performance of the song…at the end note I hope you will agree):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_hLh4qCqpg

-Finito l’alba vincerai Canada.

————————

AND you are doing very well Canada when it come to you know what.

Look at this table and some of these countries have 1/3 or less of your population (your new cases = 1,869, Deaths [RIP]=29):

https://i.imgur.com/ygyBUgl.png

Yes indeed, give thanks Canada.

#25 Decent Majority on 10.21.20 at 2:06 pm

If the herd never learns they will get sheared again by our vainglorious Prime Minister.

#26 Toronto_CA on 10.21.20 at 2:09 pm

Call me when condo prices drop to Florida in 2009 levels.
Maybe a bargain will come out one day, but 34% drop is not a bargain.

Also amusing that Amazon just said WFH extended to June 2021. The 5 days in the office work week is not coming back Garth. You can’t put the stopper back on this bottle.

Those bank towers will not stand empty. Give your head a shake. Ill-informed Fla comment, as well. – Garth

#27 n1tro on 10.21.20 at 2:11 pm

#22 Hank Stapleton on 10.21.20 at 1:39 pm
n1tro, you maybe right longer term as current stock price of $42.40 but is not the high in the $56 to 57 stock price back in 2018. I would not be surprised to see another 2 years of dividends lost 13% drop in the stock price to $37 to $37.50 per share.

There is smaller but real possibility it revisiting of $32 to $33 per share price earlier this year April-2020 or a 23%+ drop in price from current levels. A $25 to 26 stock price back in 2009 was the last time we saw 40% drop in the stock price.
—————-
I’m a buyer for Canadian bank stocks long term (monthly buys) as a part of the overall portfolio. They are just too greedy/entrenched to not make money. When the Canadian (mostly housing) economy collapses, I’m sure the bank stocks will get hit with sellers forgetting that bad mortgages the banks are holding will be covered by tax payers.

#28 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 10.21.20 at 2:26 pm

Why worry ?

Options:
1) Do-nothing: speculators with no cash flow to support will get wiped out, though luck .
2) Gov will make banks refinance over 40 years so payments will go down
3) Gov. (Fed or local) will nationalize foreclosures at market rate and turn them into (low income ?) rentals

Either way if you only bought what you could afford hang tight ,ride the wave and wait for the bounce back. And never ever pay more than $300 in condo fees.

#29 Toronto_CA on 10.21.20 at 2:40 pm

“Those bank towers will not stand empty. Give your head a shake. Ill-informed Fla comment, as well. – Garth”

Hah..I’m giving my head a shake! I don’t mean to disagree with you and give sincere appropriate suck up apologies to the bearded top dog. Maybe Vegas is a better drop comparative than Florida? Prices dropped 50% there from the peak by 2009.

I’ll also gladly send apology dog biscuits to Bandit and flowers to Dorothy if I’m wrong on the 5-day a week thing once lockdowns are over and no one fears covid anymore.

Those office towers won’t stay “empty”, but businesses will realize that hoteling/hotdesking means they need 30-40% of the footprint they have to hold the same staff. Onerous lease charges be darned.

I don’t know the future with certainty, so it is just my educated guess, but a massive reduction in office space is the writing on the wall I see and hear in London UK working at a global firm. I’m working on the deferred tax charges now…

There’s a middle ground between 5 day in the office and 5 day a week at home.

#30 Howard on 10.21.20 at 2:43 pm

#3 Leftover on 10.21.20 at 12:49 pm
Many of those “investors” financed the down payment using HELOC money (now not allowed).

—————————–

I believe only Scotiabank disallows that. The other banks have so far said nothing on it.

#31 Cto on 10.21.20 at 2:44 pm

Don’t get too giddy condo buyers…
I’ve seen gov pull a rabbit from hat before, in order to keep the game going…
Trudeau is just the kind of guy to anact policies to turbo charge immigration even though there are no jobs…who cares, they’ll get gov assistance. He believes deficits don’t matter anymore.
He could build nice little posh quarantine camps to house them a couple weeks, club med style ….no elis island! Then let them loose so they can learn to hate canada, the country who sold them a line…
Nothing, nothing would surprise me anymore.

#32 Josh in Calgary on 10.21.20 at 2:50 pm

The problem with buying a condo in hopes of a bounce back is it has significant carrying costs. You may be right on the direction that it will go and wrong on timing. Wrong on timing is still wrong.

Or as a friend of mine likes to say, “markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”

#33 Howard on 10.21.20 at 2:59 pm

Those bank towers will not stand empty. Give your head a shake. – Garth

——————————–

Unless ALL the banks go paleo and force everyone back to office 9-5 monday-friday for the sake of stroking the ego of executives, banks that remain flexible with respect to WFH arrangements (fully or partially) will likely siphon off talent from those that do not. Particularly introverted staff who do most of the real work in any company. This will become a working condition that every applicant will inquire about.

#34 Linda on 10.21.20 at 3:08 pm

So I’m wondering – if a condo is not yet built, what are the chances investors can get their money back? Given the current circumstances, would not the builder(s) decide now is not the time to build?

So rents & sale prices for condos are dropping – what about those condo fees? If they are based on price per square foot, what are the chances they too will drop as the valuation of the unit does?

As for renting, since AirBnb is effectively out of business or close enough to make little difference & renters were given the go ahead to not pay rent anyway, how likely is it that anyone will want to continue being a landlord? Herd mentality means most will not buy condos despite the price drop or formerly hot location, even if they were pining to be owners pre-pandemic.

Also, hotels/motels. AirBnb may be kaput (the answer to their prayers) but I just do not see a wave of eager clients storming the doors of hotels/motels under current circumstances. I keep flashing on the black light demo of the cleanliness of said rooms post cleaning – eww.

#35 Captain Uppa on 10.21.20 at 3:11 pm

#29 Toronto_CA on 10.21.20 at 2:40 pm
“There’s a middle ground between 5 day in the office and 5 day a week at home.”
————————————-

This is 100% the future.

Small offices with people rotating their time in it. Long desks stretching across the floor with multiple ports to simply plug in your computer. No more personal cubicle.

#36 Stone on 10.21.20 at 3:12 pm

#26 Toronto_CA on 10.21.20 at 2:09 pm
Call me when condo prices drop to Florida in 2009 levels.
Maybe a bargain will come out one day, but 34% drop is not a bargain.

Also amusing that Amazon just said WFH extended to June 2021. The 5 days in the office work week is not coming back Garth. You can’t put the stopper back on this bottle.

Those bank towers will not stand empty. Give your head a shake. Ill-informed Fla comment, as well. – Garth

———

Well duh! Of course those bank towers will not stand empty. They’ll eventually raze them to the ground and put in a single detached home subdivision. Or maybe an Amazon distribution centre.

Some days I truly wonder why I bother. – Garth

#37 JohnnyWalk on 10.21.20 at 3:27 pm

“Demand has been eroded by an abrupt halt to immigration”

Oh so an extra third of a million people per year DOES increase a demand for RE? Sounds racist to me.

The reference was to the pool of tenants. – Garth

#38 jal on 10.21.20 at 3:43 pm

Condo “maintenance” fees – the blackhole of condo ownership :)
———————————
the dreaded “special assessment.” They can ruin your day too …
******
There is only one way to make money in the condo market.
Be the property manager and advisor to the owners, (mostly retired widows), who have never had maintenance and construction experience.

#39 Brian Ripley on 10.21.20 at 3:56 pm

My Housing Starts charts are up with Sept housing data and 3Q census data
http://www.chpc.biz/housing-starts.html

As CMHC comments:

“The national trend in housing starts was largely unchanged in September at 214,647 units, up from 212,609 units in August 2020. Multi-family starts have been very volatile in recent months, partly reflecting the impact of COVID-19. High levels of multi-family starts in July and August were largely offset by lower levels in September, leaving the trend largely unchanged. This pattern was particularly evident in Ontario, including Toronto. We expect national starts to trend lower by the end of 2020 as a result of the negative impact of COVID-19 on economic and housing indicators.”

My Projected Year End 2020 Totals​ are:
Canada = 196,634 (-14% Y/Y)
ON = 76,011 (-15% Y/Y)
QC = 44,566 (-7% Y/Y)
​BC = 36,054 (-11 Y/Y)​
​AB = 23,897 (-28% Y/Y)​

All negative.

On the subject of Work From Home and empty office towers, I put together a post on “Real Estate Repurposing” here in July 2020: http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/real-estate-repurposing

2 Snippets:

1) The June 8, 2020 research from McKinsey & Company indicates that office-space decision makers expect the percentage of time worked in main and satellite offices to decline by 12% and 9% respectively, and work from home will increase from 20% to 27% of work time. They suggest that some organizations could reduce their real-estate costs by 30% or almost eliminate them if they shifted to a fully virtual model. These changes could also increase their organizational resilience and reduce their level of risk by having employees work in many different locations.

2) Angus Reid reported that at the end of March 2020, 17% of their respondents said they are doubtful that their own jobs will return or are convinced that those positions are gone for good. Three months later at the end of June, the response jumped to 38%.

Anecdotally, in my suburban area on Vancouver Island, I see many existing businesses that are operating with far less staff than prior to Covid 19. Less staff also means a smaller footprint is needed to operate a physical destination.

Buildings are a depreciating asset.

#40 Brett in Calgary on 10.21.20 at 3:58 pm

“…they’re now being Hoovered”

Never fun to see folks lose it all, but I love that expression.

#41 Catalyst on 10.21.20 at 4:00 pm

Garth please stop with this – those units sold in the 300’s in 2016 (remember peak house price?) and we are now claiming they are cheap at 500k? Down 34% from what??

The units were $800-900 a foot four years ago. The reduction is, as stated, from pre-Covid levels. I’m sorry to hear about your reading issue. – Garth

#42 tkid on 10.21.20 at 4:03 pm

Garth, what percentage do you see condo prices dropping by if there is a vaccine by the summer (or earlier)?

#43 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 4:06 pm

#73 n1tro on 10.20.20 at 11:08 pm

#50 SeeB on 10.20.20 at 7:44 pm

Lockdowns have been a disaster over all. The cure is turning out to be worse than the disease when you consider the long term economic and mental health costs
——-
Wow….when these exact words were uttered by the few back in a April, we were called science deniers and grandma killers. But I guess it is ok now since the WHO flip flopped again.

—————————————————————-

Back in April, no one was actually all that sure about it. Anyone claiming that at the time did not have all the facts. The misinformation masters and science denialists turned what should have been a search for the best method to curtail a pandemic into a political fight. The other side took the bait like trained seals, as expected, and now we are where we are.

Calling “I told you so” because some quack seeking clicks on a Youtube video said so back in April is disingenuous.

#44 Drinking on 10.21.20 at 4:11 pm

#24 Dolce Vita

In my opinion, there will never be another voice like the late great Pavarotti!

#45 jess on 10.21.20 at 4:12 pm

Operation Atlantis, the world’s largest tax evasion probe.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-day-the-international-tax-authorities-came-knocking-20201015-p565lz.html?ref=rss

6 money laundering reforms that experts say need to happen right now

Failures exposed by the FinCEN Files investigation require urgent intervention, regulators, experts and politicians say.

https://www.icij.org/

#46 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 4:13 pm

#87 KLNR on 10.21.20 at 9:26 am

@#39 SeeB on 10.20.20 at 6:21 pm

Mostly disagree. The average “lefty” that you so derisively state, is fine with gender ID, Critical Race Theory, etc. The end goal is to create an environment where people can just be whatever they want to be without threat of harm from police or getting fired, etc.

——————————————-

Nonsense.

…In particular, this requires teaching people that “families” that are made up of a mother, father and their children are wrong and is a form of white supremacy…. check out the newest addition to the Smithsonian in DC.

———

lol, in what albatross of a country is this being taught?

—————————————————————-

You mean that little thing explaining what White Privilege is? When you make hyperbolic statements like that, you only reach your own bubble and convince no one outside it.

Nobody is racist for raising a 1950s style family. Denegrating a single parent can be seen as such if used in a specific context or code.

I guess the point was to show the “our way or worthless” crowd that there is more than one way to have a family. But I can sadly see how anyone who wants to return to the old status quo would use it as a victim card to undercut the intended sentiment.

#47 Freedom First on 10.21.20 at 4:14 pm

“And thank goodness for the rest of us”. Thank-Garth!

Yes, it is good to be me!

Freedom First

#48 Inequity on 10.21.20 at 4:16 pm

#36 Stone on 10.21.20 at 3:12 pm

…Some days I truly wonder why I bother. – Garth

He missed the “r” at the end of his name

#49 TurnerNation on 10.21.20 at 4:25 pm

The Future: there’s some people suggesting that one cold day next year, Q1, we’ll awake to a message on all the screens – teevees, cell and computers.
Something like:

“Welcome to the new Global Government System
Here is your ID #. It will be how you work, get paid, shop, receive needles, and travel, and form the basis of your social credit score. The rules are few but must be followed. Together we will enjoy this new and wonderful time of prosperity, equality and fairness . ”

Could never happen. Q1 this year we were tussling over the railway blocades, a nice distraction. Then overnight the country was shut down. Could never happen.
Why stop at countries; was this a test for the big one?
Never forget we are all in this together…

#50 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.21.20 at 4:25 pm

@#36 Stone
“Well duh! Of course those bank towers will not stand empty. They’ll eventually raze them to the ground and put in a single detached home subdivision.”
+++

If it was Vancouver we would rip the towers down , build ANOTHER park to camp in, overdose in, stab each other in…. essentially Lotusland living…

Why waste a perfectly good piece of land on tax generating revenue?

#51 jess on 10.21.20 at 4:29 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/business/trump-panama-hotel-tax-evasion.html

“If the Trump organization misreported its Panamanian taxes on its US tax return (in order to qualify for a foreign tax credit), wouldn’t that constitute tax fraud?

===================
Süddeutsche Zeitung reported that Panama does not
extradite citizens and it is unclear when or if the men will face trial in Germany. Investigators hope that German-born Mossack will voluntarily return to receive a shorter sentence due to old age, according to the newspaper.

Mossack and Fonseca, a former presidential advisor, founded their eponymous law firm in 1986. It expanded operations to 40 countries and territories, from China to Uruguay, before closing down in 2018 as a result of the Panama Papers investigation.

#52 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 4:31 pm

#70 mike from mtl on 10.20.20 at 10:47 pm

#50 SeeB on 10.20.20 at 7:44 pm

“…My main source of umbrage comes from the unmasked millennial parties, the anti-mask protests, the conspiracy nuts clouding up simple guidelines.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

You know there’s no evidence of such, trust me the media would be all over those scaffolds.

We’ve (QC) had a mandatory mask mandate for basically all indoor non-personal space since July, does not seem to make any difference. Same breakouts at LTC and now schools. Apart from some unfortunate initial jerks, compliance that I see is a non-issue. Same for everywhere else the world with similar or more strict restrictions. Yes masks when used properly can reduce transmission to some degree, that’s good, though not completely which has been documented.

Thing is these “cases” in Mtl are concentrated in areas with welfare bums, crappy living conditions, working poor, immigrants who HAVE to work in person, and so on. That goes on to transfer to the general population that does interact at some point. No official wants to go there, blaming issues on their situation… no.. it has to be the young party kids and protesters who are the selfish jerks.

The ubiquitous hand washing goo I do hope is something that sticks around after, hands are an excellent vessel to transfer all sorts of baddies. Gastro and other really bad known surface bugs are and could be drastically reduced by continuing the practise.

—————————————————————–

Some good points some I’m not sure.

Yes, the examples I gave are real. And yes, the media wagged their fingers at them:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/drum-circle-at-vancouver-beach-attracted-wall-of-humanity-despite-covid-19-concerns-1.5658909

https://globalnews.ca/news/7404795/vancouver-anti-mask-rally-day-2/

I’m gladdened to hear that you have witnessed a great deal of adherence, but being in QC, your region has the unfortunate benefit of experience. I have heard anecdotes to the contrary from friends living in Quebec City, but I don’t see any reason to doubt your observations. Also, mask mandating is literally the easiest and most effective tool we have that doesn’t destroy everyone’s livelyhoods. But I stick to my earlier post that the pool of people we cant’ trust to follow guidelines is too large.

Your comments on the poor seem chillingly true. They could be ignored by the powers that be. I get to travel the Hastings corridor to work in Vancouver, and it’s the same mess as always. I wondered how many of the homeless there had already been exposed to Covid? How many have recovered? I mean, it’s likely that a very small percentage of them have even been tested for various reasons:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7319497/

https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/homeless-victoria-vancouver-covid19

But for whatever reason, the rates of infection in populations of homeless poor don’t seem to match the rates of infection seen in people above the poverty line. I suspect it’s lack of contact between economic classes, and even where there is, extra precautions are likely taken due to the perception that the homeless would be a major vector for disease.

#53 Cash is King on 10.21.20 at 4:32 pm

“But I know this takes courage. To resist the crowd’s siren song equally, to buy things that are unloved, declining, deflating, cheap and flaccid.

Like the NDP and the Green Party

#54 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.21.20 at 4:38 pm

#14 SoggyShorts on 10.21.20 at 1:13 pm
#67 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 10:25 pm
#53 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 8:01 pm
#167 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 3:06 pm
#161 Faron on 10.20.20 at 2:13 pm
#151 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 12:25 pm

*****************************
1. I didn’t even know that you identified as a woman, so I’m not sure if it counts as mansplaining.
2.Your arguments are all over the map. I pointed out that the extreme on both sides are not representative of the middle, and you point out that the extremely woke are on both sides?
How is that different, and how do you immediately follow up by pointing out that it’s liberals who are doing damage with extreme wokeness?
Which is it? are the extremely woke bi-partisan or liberal only?

3. Your priorities are ridiculous.
How can you be more concerned with the extreme left canceling a few women for saying the latest non-PC thing compared to the far-right putting a 6th and probably 7th or 8th conservative supreme court justice on the bench who will almost certainly overturn roe v. wade?
How on earth can you be worried about women’s sex-based rights and want a conservative supermajority on the bench for the next 40 years?

////////////

1. You’re a man calling out someone’s researched and informed opinion, citing no reference or expertise, ipso facto mansplaining.

2. “Peak woke bs” refers to reaching the point where one can no longer sit quietly while fools are complicit in their own abuse. Liberals are policing this woke bs, both liberals and conservatives are pushing back. Not conflicting statements.

3. I have no control over SCOTUS, and as a Canadian it doesn’t affect me directly. If the Dems win, they’ll add justices to the court. SCOTUS has been 5-4 conservative for a while, but decisions have been quite balanced with conservative appointees siding with liberal members on some decisions. If Trump wins, with the eldest justice only 70 years old, there’s no guarantee that he’ll get to appoint anyone in the next 4 years. As for my priorities, women’s legal rights apply to 51% of the population but abortion rights apply to a smaller percentage of women of child-bearing age. Do the most good for the greatest number.

#55 KNOW IT ALL on 10.21.20 at 4:49 pm

GOOD! You called it right.

So whats next??

#56 FreeBird on 10.21.20 at 4:59 pm

Perm WFH or remote jobs may incl global competition and or change in pay. On flip side WFH may give employers an advantage. Some big corps ‘welcoming’ it and 3/4 looking at ‘flexible working’. Seems like diff factors at play in return to in office work. Also as this blog has said lifestyle incl time away from home, in person collaboration and socializing with others (live in person) will play a role for many. An urban environment adds to this draw.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/7090216/coroanvirus-salary-changes/amp/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/remote-working-is-here-to-stay-but-that-doesnt-mean-the-end-of-offices-or-city-centres-145414

Another factor? Only 1/10 employers offer subsidies for WFH costs:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ca.finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/work-from-home-workers-called-greedy-petty-for-demanding-companies-pay-for-expenses-151555802.html

#57 AM in MN on 10.21.20 at 5:02 pm

Following on the thread from yesterday about Critical Race Theory, as is being taught in most public schools in Canada & the US now, it doesn’t hurt to spend a little bit of time looking at the larger trends when making long term decisions.

What are the longer term implications of a society where a majority need support from the government? Where people in traditional family structures are a minority? Where private property rights are not respected? Where should you invest your money if those trends continue?

The property rights issues are not separate from the family structure and “white supremacy” arguments, they get taught in school together as examples of an old school patriarchy that needs to be expunged.

Here is a link to the Smithsonian exhibit on the “white” family;

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1283372233730203651?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1283372233730203651%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3%2Ccontainerclick_1&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamiherald.com%2Fnews%2Fnation-world%2Fnational%2Farticle244309587.html

On the property rights issue, the key is the word “colonialism”, as in, you know who stole the land you live on and need to give it back. This is from none other than the City Manager for the City of Vancouver, not a low level player when it comes to property rights issues.

Again, doesn’t hurt to consider some of these longer term political trends;

> Date: October 14, 2020 at 6:43:49 PM PDT
> To: undisclosed-recipients:;
> Subject: Colonial Audit updates coming to your
>
> Dear Mayor and Council,
>
> I wanted to provide you with an update to let you know that an RFP for Consultant Services to support the development of a Colonial Audit Scope has been publicly posted.
>
> As part of the RFP the City of Vancouver is seeking an experienced Indigenous policy consultant to work with our Indigenous Relations Manager to develop an initial scope for the City to conduct a colonial audit. The scope for a colonial audit will articulate the intent, meaning, and subject area of the colonial audit with clear processes and transparency.
>
> This work was directed by City of Vancouver Council on June 26, 2019:
>
> Council direct staff to report back on initial scoping of a “Colonial Audit” in order to identify both short term and long term opportunities and specific ways to improve the City of Vancouver policies and practices with regard to Reconciliation and report back with their findings and recommendations to acknowledge any injustices uncovered as part of the “truth-telling” phase.
>
> Given the size of the City of Vancouver and the breadth of policies, technical operations, land ownership and public services that the City oversees, conducting an initial scope will be required to assess and recommend if all facets of the City should be captured in the colonial audit or whether particular aspects of the organization’s structures, policies and processes should be focused on.
>
> When completed later next year, the scope will contain a recommended plan to execute the colonial audit including the mechanisms for assessing the City’s colonial roots, the applicable timelines and budget for Council’s approval.
>
> Thoughtfully scoping this work will be necessary as it will establish a clear understanding of the colonial audit’s intentions and purpose and create accountability for the goal of reviewing and assessing the City’s colonial roots and current practices.
>
> We will provide you with regular updates as this work proceeds.
>
> Should you have any questions, please reach out to the City’s Indigenous Relations Manager – Katelyn Crabtree ([email protected]).
>
>
> Best,
>
> Sadhu
>
>
> Sadhu Aufochs Johnston | City Manager
>
> Office of the City Manager | City of Vancouver
>
> 604.873.7627 | [email protected]
>
>
>
> Pronouns: he, him, his
>

#58 Damifino on 10.21.20 at 5:06 pm

Jagmeet caved as expected. The NDP is now utterly irrelevant and will be lucky to keep a handful of seats in the next election (to be called by T2 in his own sweet time).

Interesting that the two independents and three greens also voted to support the Liberals. One suspects something was worked out beforehand.

So few surprises these days. Anyway, the WE scandal is effectively over. Does nothing stick to the boy?

#59 avocado on 10.21.20 at 5:06 pm

“buy low, not high”, 2016 looked rather low for oil, guess we were wrong about that one. Now Suncor is a buck away from it’s all time low. I dare not enough look to see what Husky is at.

#60 FreeBird on 10.21.20 at 5:09 pm

#44 Drinking on 10.21.20 at 4:11 pm
#24 Dolce Vita

In my opinion, there will never be another voice like the late great Pavarotti!
——————-
I still have my hard won (waiting online) tickets for his last show in Toronto that was not to be. The world lost him not long after. So close to checking one off the dream list. Oh well.

#61 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 5:12 pm

29 & 33,
Not a chance. We have offices in Canada, the US, and yes London UK. We will be expecting our ~800 tech employees to back in the office when it is safe to do so., All new hires are given the same expectation so as not to have any surprises.

I terms of being competitive because workers will have a choice is laughable at best. It’s the employer who will have choices in a global market. If I am forced to have technology employees working remotely, then my options open up to hire competitively anywhere in the world. Won’t matter if they are 2 hours out in the burbs, or 10 time zones away.

With the current rate of unemployment, employees are not going to be in a position of bargaining power any time soon.

#62 pPrasseur on 10.21.20 at 5:12 pm

RE market around Monreal is on fire, bidding wars everywhere, this is crazy, never seen anything like it!

#63 Joe on 10.21.20 at 5:13 pm

WOW 34% off sale on condos?! I was shopping around for a condo since I can’t afford a freehold town semi or detached anywhere in Ontario. I saw one downtown for $550,000. So 34% off it should cost $363,000 now. A steal!! WOW! I’m gonna ask my realtor to offer $345,000 to start.

#64 Millennial 1%er on 10.21.20 at 5:22 pm

Imagine taking out more than a half a million dollars in debt for the opportunity to pay condo fees

#65 Dave on 10.21.20 at 5:22 pm

Some days I truly wonder why I bother. – Garth

That’s funny!

I Googled the place in Toronto. It comes with Hunter Douglass Blinds! That alone sweetens the whole thing.

#66 I'm A Believer on 10.21.20 at 5:30 pm

@ 26 Toronto_CA
Towers will be converted to mix of commercial and residential. Definitely the new world of the future was brought forward by the pandemic. Technology will continue to facilitate remote/mobile workplaces. Sitting in a cubicle is done. Sorry Garth I respectly disagree with you on this point.

No downtown commercial tower will become residential. You cannot be that naive. – Garth

#67 Faron on 10.21.20 at 5:34 pm

If everyone knows an asset’s price is going to crash, will it crash? Google the index of most shorted stocks for an example of how this is currently working out for equities.

If enough buyers are watching the condo market and drooling over the discounts to come then the market will be supported more than one thinks and those discounts may never be realized.

Markets love to frustrate market timers.

#68 Jay on 10.21.20 at 5:45 pm

I’ve been watching question period a lot lately since i have become a prisoner in my own country.

Its pathetic that the liberals just spew out the same pre-screened remark over and over “we are focused on…insert catchphrase…for Canadians”, in response to every single question. Even Trump will at least tries to defend himself and respond to questions, even if the answer sounds like a 6 year old having a tantrum.

How am i supposed to teach my Children that they have something to look forward to when they grow up. That they should live life to a high ethical standard when the leader of the country cant even do the same?

The liberals engage in constant scandals, reckless spending, giving money to friends, and treat is all with arrogance at a level I’ve never seen before, acting like they are above the law, because it appears they actually are.

Yet we keep voting for the same B.S. What did Harper do again that was so bad that he had to be ousted at all cost? I’ve already forgot.

#69 Timmy on 10.21.20 at 5:50 pm

I still don’t see this happening in Vancouver, there is almost nothing under 700K for a 2 bedroom

#70 X on 10.21.20 at 5:55 pm

2 things I have wondered about: How the media covers the drop in condo valuations, as real estate does bring in alot of advertising dollars.

And what happens if/when a pessimistic real estate sentiment spreads to the detached sales, as you have mentioned the bond market is soon to put pressure on these low rates.

Personally, I have seen the detached market sitting a little longer to sell recently, perhaps most of the covid buyers have made their purchase, and some emotion is now out of the market.

#71 [email protected] on 10.21.20 at 5:59 pm

Hello my budget is $480,000. Any suggested listings for a nice condo I could take a look at? Link Please.

#72 Toronto_CA on 10.21.20 at 6:16 pm

#61 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 5:12 pm

None of us have a crystal ball, but for those working from home for more than a year, I repeat it seems very unlikely that things will revert back to 5-day a week unless the employee really wants to do that (and some do).

I would counter the investment companies have made in office space against employees investing in living areas far from offices over the last 8 months, coupled with a year+ of no awful commute, not having to wear suits and ties (or equivalent ladies’ wear), being able to see their children and loved ones, cook a meal, go for a walk in a park, and still feel more productive than ever.

The companies like yours that try to be rigidly inflexible with home working (for tech workers?) will inevitably lose their best talent to companies that allow flexible working and home working, with some days to come in for meetings in person. I work in professional services, and can tell you *I* will not be in 5 days a week after covid. Neither will my wife, who is at another firm. Nor will any of my staff under me, unless they want to come in (and for the next year we won’t be allowed to do that anyway as we operate an A/B team schedule).

Flexible working is a top rated non-financial perk in every survey, even if your personal circumstances don’t value it.

Here’s Ernst & Young’s take from September 7th:
“Remote working is here to stay and will more than ever become an integral part of the way we work. Now is the time for companies to prepare for this ‘back to the new normal’.”

https://www.ey.com/en_be/covid-19/why-remote-working-will-be-the-new-normal-even-after-covid-19

#73 Also in Cowtown on 10.21.20 at 6:23 pm

#59 avocado on 10.21.20 at 5:06 pm

Suncor is a buck away from it’s all time low?

Actually, SU.TO closed today at $15.11.
The all time low was $.54 on March 1, 1993 (split adjusted).

#74 Barb on 10.21.20 at 6:26 pm

Reading the comments, some should be worried about retaining our–and Garth’s–sanity.

#75 Track and Trace T2 on 10.21.20 at 6:28 pm

DELETED

#76 You really mean ... on 10.21.20 at 6:38 pm

#61 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 5:12 pm
With the current rate of unemployment, employees are not going to be in a position of bargaining power any time soon.
——————————————–
future taxpayers.

#77 Faron on 10.21.20 at 6:39 pm

Just perused the rental listings for Vic. There’s a lot out there and prices are lower than I recall them being. Lots of mortgage helpers leaning on their broom sticks. With UVic mostly remote learning, this winter is going to be rough on the cash-flows of many households that rely on rental income.

#78 Rainman on 10.21.20 at 6:43 pm

The move to WFH started long before Covid and this only accelerated it. Yes people will come back to the office, but in much different way and less often.
Sorry Garth – you are wrong on this one.

#79 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 6:50 pm

#73 Toronto_CA

We do agree on some things, particularly the absence of a crystal ball. However, the focus is too often on the employee’s power to influence the market. If you remove the need to have the employee come to the office, you have changed the market for available talent from obtaining them locally, to choosing anywhere in the world. This fundamentally changes the competitive advantage of being local. And it’s true, nobody knows how this is going to play out, not even Ernst & Young. After all, was only days ago that Garth posted the announcement from Financial Institutions that they were expecting their employees to be in their offices soon.

If I knew for sure, I’d be retiring a billionaire in short order, but it is good debate material

#80 Jake on 10.21.20 at 6:51 pm

Sorry posted this earlier on the wrong day… Is the 34% drop the average? When is it time to vulch?

#81 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 6:51 pm

#69 Jay on 10.21.20 at 5:45 pm

Yet we keep voting for the same B.S. What did Harper do again that was so bad that he had to be ousted at all cost? I’ve already forgot.

—————————————————————-

Just because you have a short memory doesn’t mean others do or that nothing happened.

You could just try googling “criticism of Stephen Harper” for start, but the “do your research” crowd seem unable to find or trust anything that might challenge their own world view, and never share their own sources for some straaaaange reason…

Personally the biggest things off the top of my head would be the muzzling scientists, climate denial, being a control freak, FIPA, wasting hundreds of millions in tax money on “Canada’s Economic Action Plan” advertising, trying to mandate “Canada’s New Government”… just a few examples. Yes it wasn’t all bad (TFSAs), though it feels like those things happened in spite of him.

Surely the greatest crime of all, however, would be Harper blithely casting out of our humble blog host.

#82 Nonplused on 10.21.20 at 6:52 pm

#35 Captain Uppa on 10.21.20 at 3:11 pm
#29 Toronto_CA on 10.21.20 at 2:40 pm
“There’s a middle ground between 5 day in the office and 5 day a week at home.”
————————————-

This is 100% the future.

Small offices with people rotating their time in it. Long desks stretching across the floor with multiple ports to simply plug in your computer. No more personal cubicle.

———————-

WFH and WFA were already becoming a thing before covid. It is simply more economic for companies to have employees who can work remotely pay for their own office space. And it is more economic for the employees to not have to commute. And anything that is more economic is usually better for the environment.

The trend towards less office space has been underway since the invention of the PC and the internet. Originally, the first wave targeted paper and all the office space dedicated to it, with locked doors to secure sensitive information. Then offices with doors and the file rooms went. Then the personal assistants. Then the offices themselves to be replaced by rows of cubicles. But you still had to be in the office because your network came to you over a T100 wire. Then came VPN and secure WFH solutions arrived.

My wife works for a big nation wide accounting firm and they sent her and her whole department home with a laptop and a phone years before covid hit. It seems to work.

So there has been a war on office space underway for at least 20 years now. It will continue because it is inefficient. But there are many jobs that aren’t yet suitable for work from home. However covid has given companies an excellent opportunity to squeeze the remaining employees who do have to show up in the office into even smaller spaces. Now even the boss doesn’t get an office with a door.

#83 Boer of Transvaal on 10.21.20 at 6:55 pm

Toronto is a bad place anyways. When you get mugged at gunpoint, the Toronto Police take forever to reach on the scene, but when a liberal gets offended at an online post, Toronto Police immediately comes to your door, starts to threaten you and harass you if you exercise your right to free speech. Let Toronto collapse. It’s not part of Canada. Toronto Police, the OHRT, and the local courts do not follow the law and constitution of Canada.

#84 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 10.21.20 at 6:57 pm

#61 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 5:12 pm
《 》
With the current rate of unemployment, employees are not going to be in a position of bargaining power any time soon.
=======
I work for a multinational as well and you are absolutely correct, in fact we do distribute now a lot of jobs across national jurisdictions based on cost.
I am not sure where this concept of being irreplaceable as a person or the notion that employers will cater to any employee’s whim comes from.
I’ve seen numerous cases of top performers that didn’t play ball being walked out and the companies are still around making tons of money.
Never ever believe the HR driven corporate kool-aid . Yes, WFH will be around in some form or another, just not to the extent that the low tenure generation thinks it will.

#85 AGuyInVancouver on 10.21.20 at 6:57 pm

DELETED

#86 Well Travelled on 10.21.20 at 7:00 pm

Anyone heard anything from Brad Lamb, the self proclaimed “Condo King” of TO?

Crickets!

#87 45north on 10.21.20 at 7:09 pm

GBiddy That said, a day hardly passes when I don’t thank the good Lord above for gifting me with the foresight to dump the two rental condos I owned back in 2018.

I like a story with a happy ending

#88 Sail Away on 10.21.20 at 7:10 pm

#69 Jay on 10.21.20 at 5:45 pm

How am i supposed to teach my Children that they have something to look forward to when they grow up. That they should live life to a high ethical standard when the leader of the country cant even do the same?

—————-

You could teach them to bird hunt.

They will then lead the happiest and most fulfilling life you could imagine.

#89 jess on 10.21.20 at 7:11 pm

the deplorables :
look who is behind that conspiracy …of course he is

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/coronavirus-lab-theory-yan-bannon-invs/index.html

#90 George S on 10.21.20 at 7:16 pm

#69 Jay:

“The liberals engage in constant scandals, reckless spending, giving money to friends, and treat is all with arrogance at a level I’ve never seen before,”

Have you never watched the news about the US? You know the place where the president appoints family members to high up positions, holds government funded meetings at his own golf courses, etc.?

#91 Nonplused on 10.21.20 at 7:22 pm

#36 Stone on 10.21.20 at 3:12 pm
#26 Toronto_CA on 10.21.20 at 2:09 pm
Call me when condo prices drop to Florida in 2009 levels.
Maybe a bargain will come out one day, but 34% drop is not a bargain.

Also amusing that Amazon just said WFH extended to June 2021. The 5 days in the office work week is not coming back Garth. You can’t put the stopper back on this bottle.

Those bank towers will not stand empty. Give your head a shake. Ill-informed Fla comment, as well. – Garth

———

Well duh! Of course those bank towers will not stand empty. They’ll eventually raze them to the ground and put in a single detached home subdivision. Or maybe an Amazon distribution centre.

——————————

I assume you are being sarcastic. They aren’t going to raze the office buildings, but how they are used will change.

I see the evolution as follows:

Companies will continue to send everyone they can home with nothing but a laptop and a phone. 5 days a week in the office will no longer be the norm. Cubicles will operate on a “hotel” model, you’ll have to book one for the days you want to be in the office to meet in person with your team or clients, same as you have to book a meeting room now.

As companies reduce their footprint, rents will fall. This will make the economics of WFW better, slowing the WFH trend.

New office construction will basically stop, as companies looking for space will now be able to find it in existing buildings at reasonable prices.

Some office space will be entirely repurposed into hotels, condos, even maybe schools and day care facilities. The space will be used, just at lower rents. This can be done while co-existing with office space on other floors. Who knows you might see a whole floor converted into a church. Nobody else is there on Sunday morning so the parking garage and the elevators are free of other users.

The office towers are not going to go unused. But I think we’ll be surprised by the creativity that goes into repurposing them. There will be many more ideas than I can think of.

(Does the church idea sound absurd? I know of a church that meets in a bay in a strip mall, and another that meets in a gym across the road from me. That one in the gym has installed, at their own expense, all sorts of audio visual equipment in the gym and also has several container boxes full of chairs sitting outside. Every Sunday the super faithful show up to take the chairs out of the containers and put them in the gym. They also have a couple golf carts in the shipping containers to bring the faithful from the school parking lot down the road. The faithful fill up the community center parking lot, the school parking lot, and the bus lot every single Sunday. We get a traffic Jam. Luckily some of the super faithful don orange vests and direct traffic. Do you think a congregation that is that creative wouldn’t consider a floor in a tower that has parking and elevators? When you think about it, super easy to build the sanctuary on one side of the floor and the Sunday school classrooms, child care, and clergy offices on the other. )

#92 avocado on 10.21.20 at 7:22 pm

#74 Also in Cowtown

Suncor is a buck away from it’s all time low?

Apologies, I meant to say 52 week low.

that 1993 price is making it look a little bit better :)

#93 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.21.20 at 7:29 pm

Sasha Baron Cohen “punked” Rudy Giuliani in Borat 2

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2020/10/21/borat-sequel-rudy-giuliani-sacha-baron-cohen/

#94 Bill on 10.21.20 at 7:30 pm

Wow those sq ft cost are retarded Garth. I would say anyone paying those foolish prices has no clue what value is or what building cost are….MY GOD

I bought a big complex with condos on top. 2 Bed (can fit 2 Queen size beds in the main) 2 Bath 1550 sq on these penthouse units. 2 decks and smoking view of the the ocean bay in ###### on Van island for the massive price of…….ready….$175sq ft. Fishing skiing hunting camping loving every day is 20 min away and we got a Costco $1.50 dogs :-)
My office building below so no noisy neighbors ever. Doubled my money on the whole property in 3 years but took 4 years to find it. Its called patients, that of which most people do not have = FOMO.
I advised friends buying up condos 1.5 yrs ago in Van…now their hung out. Listen to Garth.

#95 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.21.20 at 7:34 pm

@#84 Bored of Transval
“When you get mugged at gunpoint, the Toronto Police take forever to reach on the scene…”

+++

Unless, of course, they are the ones mugging you……

#96 Eco Capitalist on 10.21.20 at 7:35 pm

@ #34 Linda

Most builders won’t put a shovel in the ground until a condo is at least 70% sold.

Maintenance fees have no correlation with the market value of a unit. The condominium will have a reserve fund study, which needs to be redone every 3 years. A reserve fund study projects major capital costs for the building for the next 25 years. Using the results of that study, plus the annual operating budget, the condominium board will know how much money they need to raise over a given period of time. They take that number and determine a cost per square foot. Take the size of your unit, multiply by that number and that’s your condo fee. Most builds now have an additional monthly fee per locker and per parking space, which get added to your maintenance fee.

The above is Ontario centric (and over simplified, reserve fund studies are complex beasts). I do not know the specifics in other provinces, though I expect them to be similar.

#97 The Spectre on 10.21.20 at 7:35 pm

As Buffett used to say:
Now we know who was swimming naked

#98 Lean salmon on 10.21.20 at 7:35 pm

Atleast kamloops is going way up!
I’ll drink to that :)

#99 Bill on 10.21.20 at 7:37 pm

PS when my friends, god love’em, became RE experts I knew the end was NIGH. That’s my gig and they know that, that’s why they come to me but end up doing the opposite…I just laugh and shake my head. Safety first!!
Both of my coastal towns I live in are booming. They got the CV glow!

#100 Bill on 10.21.20 at 7:40 pm

#93 avocado on 10.21.20 at 7:22 pm
#74 Also in Cowtown
Suncor is a buck away from it’s all time low?
Apologies, I meant to say 52 week low.
that 1993 price is making it look a little bit better :)
———————————————————-
I just looked at the chart…same as the 2009 crash lows.
Maybe puttin in a double bottom.

#101 Reality is stark on 10.21.20 at 7:40 pm

It’s the losses which are real.
The owner’s lose, the lenders lose, and you will lose some as well.
The government will have to make up the losses in revenue so they will make it up by jacking up single family home property taxes.
As condo building slows jobs are lost.

#102 zoey on 10.21.20 at 7:53 pm

I love it.

Hopefully there are RE agents getting an earful from the poor slobs that bought in 2019 at the very top because “prices only go up”. And detached homes are no different, if the listings stay high and demand softens into winter , down they go.

#103 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.21.20 at 7:53 pm

@#95 Bill
” Its called patients, that of which most people do not have….. ”

+++

Unless they’re Doctors and they have patience.

#104 Nonplused on 10.21.20 at 7:54 pm

#56 FreeBird on 10.21.20 at 4:59 pm

“Another factor? Only 1/10 employers offer subsidies for WFH costs:”

—————–

There are no work from home costs once you put your commute, clothing, and lunch costs in. It is a true “win-win” where it can work.

For example we did spend about $1200 on one of those up-down desks and a couple of monitors for my wife’s home office, from which she works full time for some years now. Transit alone paid for that in 6 months (monthly pass plus reserved parking). So 4 years in I assume we are $7200 ahead on just that. Plus she gets 2 hours a day back (about) from not having to commute, so that is something like a 20% pay raise right there, for the hours involved in working and commuting.

I haven’t even tallied the gas savings, the wear and tear on the car, the fact that our insurance on the car is lower since it isn’t going anywhere, the clothes, the lunches, or say the one cost we do have which is the electricity to run the laptop and monitors, but that is small. “Well what about internet and heat and all that?” you might ask. We already have all that. Sunk costs.

WFH saves the company money. But it also saves the employee time and money. It is a true “win-win” where it works.

#105 NotLegalAdvice on 10.21.20 at 8:07 pm

Anyone able to find these condo going for 785 mentioned above? I can’t seem to find the listing.

Thanks!

#106 Mr Canada on 10.21.20 at 8:07 pm

Can’t happen here? Check out this nice new one bedroom condo in downtown Buffalo New York – just 90 minutes from Toronto, 1,040 square feet, 3rd floor, walk to the lake, under $200 a square foot…and it just dropped $15K.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/210-Ellicott-St-FLOOR-3-Buffalo-NY-14203/2077574881_zpid/?

#107 SoggyShorts on 10.21.20 at 8:07 pm

#54 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.21.20 at 4:38 pm
You’re a man calling out someone’s researched and informed opinion, citing no reference or expertise, ipso facto mansplaining.
***********************
I’m a person explaining the absolutely undeniable fact that the 10% most extreme people are more extreme than the other 90%. That’s how numbers work.

The fact that you have a reading comprehension problem has nothing to do with what either of us has in our pants.

#108 Frank n Beans on 10.21.20 at 8:15 pm

Continuing the WFH debate here… just speaking from the lowly public servant (manager) perspective. I have a small team of economists/statisticians who conduct sector analysis and they rely heavily on big data, all of which is digital/online. Most of them are various forms of introvert, as am I. We all had our own offices pre-Cov, tax payer money covering for brains to sit in a big nice building churn out analysis. Pandemic hit, we all got VPNs, took our laptops home and bingo-bango, we can still log into S&P Global etc. from home. Productivity hasn’t decreased in the slightest. The best workers are happier. No sick days. MS Teams is an excellent platform for conferencing and O365 has a ton of tools to make old skool office life irrelevant. I just hired someone who is top notch who lives on the other side of the province who would have never taken the job if we were still in an office only setting. Our senior execs have been planning to send us back to work on a 1-2 day a week rotational basis, at best, but since wave deuce decided to pull back on that. While it’s nice to socialize with the office Chatty Cathy and eat buddy’s desk Skittles, I don’t miss getting the inevitable office cold/flu. I don’t miss wasting loads of paper and ink, and I don’t miss the drive in/cold car in the parking lot. Again, from my direct experience, these last 6 months have proven to me that my team is just as effective (and happy) w WFH. I will support them in this setting so long as they remain this way.

#109 FriedEggs on 10.21.20 at 8:21 pm

I guess with Drudge and other MSM dropping the Guiliani scene from upcoming Borat movie to distract – something of real significance is on Hunter’s computer.

But nothing will come of this – FBI has it? Big deal. They had Anthony Wieners computer too and nothing happened. Guiliani has up copies? Who cares.

#110 Nonplused on 10.21.20 at 8:22 pm

#57 AM in MN on 10.21.20 at 5:02 pm

“On the property rights issue, the key is the word “colonialism”, as in, you know who stole the land you live on and need to give it back.”

The first nations themselves cannot agree which nation owned what before the British came, other than that the British stole it.

In any case if you kind of skip forward over all of the people who were killed, the first nations have it better now than they ever did. They have houses with electricity and central heating, trucks, quads, prefered hunting rights, healthcare, horses if they want them, etc. Their ancestors wintered in teepees made of sticks and animal skins. The colonization was brutal, but nobody should be under the impression that those that survived are worse off than their ancestors.

The key to improving the plight of the first nations is to encourage them to participate in the modern economy. Want to build a pipeline across their land? Pay them rent and hire those of them that will work on the project. I’ve worked with first nations before. Ya sure there are those ones you see drunk downtown, but that is a small percentage, just the most visible. The majority of them are just as willing to make a buck as any other person if they have the opportunity.

I’ll probably get deleted for this post because I am talking about first nations, but my experience with them has been if you give them a cut of the deal (fair value for the land, decent job opportunities, safety considerations, etc.), they come to the table and they play fair.

#111 Howard on 10.21.20 at 8:25 pm

#61 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 5:12 pm
29 & 33,
Not a chance. We have offices in Canada, the US, and yes London UK. We will be expecting our ~800 tech employees to back in the office when it is safe to do so., All new hires are given the same expectation so as not to have any surprises.

I terms of being competitive because workers will have a choice is laughable at best. It’s the employer who will have choices in a global market. If I am forced to have technology employees working remotely, then my options open up to hire competitively anywhere in the world. Won’t matter if they are 2 hours out in the burbs, or 10 time zones away.

With the current rate of unemployment, employees are not going to be in a position of bargaining power any time soon.

————————————

You know what’s laughable? Your lame counter-argument about hiring globally, as if outsourcing is a new thing!

If it were cost-effective to ditch all the Canadian staff and hire people en masse in India, it would’ve been done 20 years ago. Companies are not in habit of keeping higher-priced Canadians on the payroll just to be nice. The fact is that you frequently get what you pay for. Canadian salaries are very low by Western standards anyway.

How fun losing talent to more modern competitors. Maybe not in the current climate, but the pendulum will swing back as it always does.

#112 Flop... on 10.21.20 at 8:28 pm

Crowdie, listen up, I came up with a plan today while I was at work applying a really strong glue.

You vote Liberal this weekend, as planned.

B.C Liberals win, all the old memories and speculators come back for another 4 years.

John Horgan becomes disillusioned with the B.C political scene and runs for a seat at the federal level.

With me so far?

He then runs for the leadership of the federal NDP, after they tank in the next election, and he becomes a national hero along with Pierre Poilievre after they actually manage to put Trudeau back in the corral, and bring some kind accountability back to federal politics.

Sure, everyone in Vancouver will pay 30% more for a house, but we have to take a hit for Team Canada.

This is not making sense anymore.

The glue must be wearing off.

At least I got paid to get high.

Trudeau would be so proud of me…

M46BC

#113 Howard on 10.21.20 at 8:32 pm

#87 Well Travelled on 10.21.20 at 7:00 pm
Anyone heard anything from Brad Lamb, the self proclaimed “Condo King” of TO?

Crickets!

—————————————-

Or Andrew Lafleur, self-proclaimed Toronto’s Condo Investment Expert.

This was a tweet of his from February, the very top of the condo market.

https://twitter.com/AndrewLaFleur/status/1227427734869204992

“Condo Investors: while you are sleeping tonight, the values of your Toronto condos will increase by thousands of dollars. Sleep well my friends.”

#114 Spectacle on 10.21.20 at 8:34 pm

Quick reply, cant wait to read everbodys insights tonight.

My input, following the fact of 30 kilometers of undrground Toronto real estate, largely Empty.

Looking at supply side on its own in Vancouver, as a contrast. Richmond has a crap load of north 3 road developments:: a few ; veridian green, yeunhang , the Trade center wtf is that idea , and at oakridge develpment by westbank all seem to blow your mind because of the supply side contribution!
A few places of office towers, condos, and “International Laundromats” to be honest. I know of at least one ” casino” near the real casino. Hmm, much like the one busted in Toronto, the guys who “chatted” up Trudeau twice. How naughty.

#115 Felix on 10.21.20 at 8:34 pm

So many dogawful deplorables in one photo.

#116 Flop... on 10.21.20 at 8:34 pm

#41 Catalyst on 10.21.20 at 4:00 pm

———————–

“I’m sorry to hear about your reading issue. – Garth”

//////////////////////////

I should have just written that instead of wasting 4 posts the other day on a drunk Italian going on a rant about nothing to do with my interest rates post…

M46BC

#117 Howard on 10.21.20 at 8:38 pm

#82 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 6:51 pm

Personally the biggest things off the top of my head would be the muzzling scientists…

————————————–

This again?

Well it’s been 5 years of PM Twinkletoes and I’m still waiting for these now-unmuzzled scientists to unveil the earth-shattering news that they apparently couldn’t reveal when Harper was PM. When do you think they’ll get around to it?

#118 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.21.20 at 8:44 pm

And as the Thucydides Trap draws ever tighter………..

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china/trumps-security-adviser-says-china-is-the-threat-of-the-century-idUSKBN2762Z4

#119 fishman on 10.21.20 at 8:45 pm

If your not going to pay heed to the Gartho on here, how about me. Just took possession on one of these mini-penthouse condos. Came in 20 minutes after financing collapsed on an over asking offer with subjects. Signed the same day. Made a full price, all cash, no subjects, 2 weeks to complete offer. Thats how we play for the tasty spots in Van town. But Hey, full warning, I put 200 bucks on the Trumpster. Maybe you want to stick to the Garth.

#120 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.21.20 at 8:58 pm

#62 pPrasseur on 10.21.20 at 5:12 pm
RE market around Monreal is on fire, bidding wars everywhere, this is crazy, never seen anything like it!
—————-
If Trump were a Realtor, that’s what he would say.
Oh, forgot, he IS a Realtor.

#121 Apocalypse2020 on 10.21.20 at 8:58 pm

15 Days to Global Catastrophe

“Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe said Wednesday both Iran and Russia have obtained US voter registration information in an effort to interfere in the election, including Iran posing as the far-right group Proud Boys to send intimidating emails to voters.

“This data can be used by foreign actors to attempt to communicate false information to registered voters that they hope will cause confusion, sow chaos and undermine your confidence in American democracy,” Ratcliffe said.”

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/politics/fbi-election-security/index.html

Russia
Iran
China
North Korea

PREPARE

#122 Apocalypse2020 on 10.21.20 at 9:01 pm

Nukes are coming next.

PREPARE

#123 Gogo on 10.21.20 at 9:02 pm

One bank big six is leaving 20% of workforce in towers. Rest from home forever. This is a fact. Usually they do everything in tandem.

Link? – Garth

#124 MF on 10.21.20 at 9:09 pm

Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 5:12

What you describe is nothing new. It’s just regular old outsourcing.

Most companies who have tried it have either bad, or somewhat mixed results. We are now seeing re-shoring of jobs where the outsourcing savings weren’t worth the headaches.

Example: Rogers re-shoring it’s call centre.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/financialpost.com/news/economy/calling-home-rogers-brings-remaining-customer-service-jobs-back-to-canada/wcm/6397d2c3-457e-4be1-ad47-49ba177c5dad/amp/

Zero chance everyone will be back in the office as it was. Expect a mix, and as technology improves, expect more and more remote work taking over. When it works, it works really really well.

Companies will always want to retain talent, like someone else mentioned above. They will be more than willing to offer flexible work schedules, including WFH if that’s what it takes.

MF

#125 MF on 10.21.20 at 9:14 pm

85 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 10.21.20 at 6:57 pm

The corollary to that story is those top earners, if they are that good, would just go to another company that will potentially value them -and pay them- more.

Generally speaking, most people move from job to job often. It’s rare someone stays at the same company for years and years. This trend began in the 90’s and accelerated in 2008.

MF

#126 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.21.20 at 9:16 pm

CEF
Purdue Pharma, the company that manufactured and pushed the addictive painkiller Oxycontin on tens of thousands of patients, has been fined 250 million.
Some would call the Executives of the firm murderers for allegedly knowingly causing thousands of overdose deaths.
Would you recommend a 10 year prison sentence for these pushers, too.

#127 binky barnes on 10.21.20 at 9:23 pm

Mr. Justin Trudeau (aka the Teflon Man) has things completely under control folks. There is nothing more important to this person than the economic well-being of Canada. Nothing.

BB

#128 TurnerNation on 10.21.20 at 9:41 pm

The business of sports. Remember, the globalists must kill off all national sports and culture.
That’s what this reset is all about. All cities and nations must come under Globalism.
……….

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/21/dodgers-rays-game-one-lowest-tv-ratings-for-world-series-game-ever.html

Dodgers-Rays game one had the lowest TV ratings ever for a World Series game

……

A recap:

#113 TurnerNation on 09.08.20 at 9:17 am
no but the guy making the New System leak/info in late 60’s that soccer would be only permitted sport [In the New System] might be on to something. ..

6 months in and:
– CFL football league is cancelled.
– Toronto Blue Jays baseball team banned from the country.
– NBA player staged a work stoppage

https://twitter.com/mikeinboston/status/1308909651
837280256

“”Sportsnet has confirmed Game 1 of the Stanley Cup Final between the Stars and the Lightning drew an average audience of only 1.081 million on Saturday night. In Game 2, on Monday night, the audience shrank to 841,000.”

#129 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.21.20 at 9:50 pm

#111 nonpussed
I’m glad that Garth let that post pass.
So that you can read it again tomorrow morning when you’re sober.

#130 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 10:02 pm

#125 MF

Outsourcing is not the same as hiring your own employees. If the employee is not in the office, it doesn’t matter if they are down the street, or in another country. It may very well be that some employers will be allowing some WFH. But to think it doesn’t have an effect on the employer’s ability to hire non-local talent would be short-sighted.

…with respect

#131 n1tro on 10.21.20 at 10:05 pm

#43 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 4:06 pm

—————————————————————-

Back in April, no one was actually all that sure about it. Anyone claiming that at the time did not have all the facts. The misinformation masters and science denialists turned what should have been a search for the best method to curtail a pandemic into a political fight. The other side took the bait like trained seals, as expected, and now we are where we are.

You statements are contradicting itself it is hard to keep up. In April, no one knew exactly what was going on (because this is the first pandemic the world has faced)??

Ok, let’s pretend this pandemic is nothing like the others. The assumption no one knew what was going on for sure includes the scientists at the WHO which made the recommendation to shut the economy down. Dumbass governments followed along with the media pumping out scary headlines for clicks.

Calling “I told you so” because some quack seeking clicks on a Youtube video said so back in April is disingenuous.

Calling “I told you so” because the numbers show that covid-19 kills like a strong flu strain that affects the old and compromised is on the money. Locking the economy down again, cancelling Halloween, fear mongering of a wave 2 with all the “new cases” even though the amount of testing has increased by multiple folds (which logically would up the positive counts), not reporting the amount of deaths but focusing only the “cases”, etc…. that is disingenuous.

I guess the only good news this year is, no one died of old age or natural causes in 2020

#132 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.21.20 at 10:07 pm

@#127 Pius Ponzie the Perfect
“Some would call the Executives of the firm murderers for allegedly knowingly causing thousands of overdose deaths.
Would you recommend a 10 year prison sentence for these pushers, too.”

++++

Absolutely!
But only after I have instructed my investment advisor to sell my pharma shares……

#133 KLNR on 10.21.20 at 10:08 pm

@#87 Well Travelled on 10.21.20 at 7:00 pm
Anyone heard anything from Brad Lamb, the self proclaimed “Condo King” of TO?

Crickets!

———–

jokes on you man.
the guy is probably busy counting his billions he made off all the condo specuvestors lol.

#134 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.21.20 at 10:11 pm

#120 fishman on 10.21.20 at 8:45 pm
If your not going to pay heed to the Gartho on here, how about me. Just took possession on one of these mini-penthouse condos. Came in 20 minutes after financing collapsed on an over asking offer with subjects. Signed the same day. Made a full price, all cash, no subjects, 2 weeks to complete offer. Thats how we play for the tasty spots in Van town. But Hey, full warning, I put 200 bucks on the Trumpster. Maybe you want to stick to the Garth.
——————
Oops.
I sure hope you’re just bragging about your catch like all fish men.
The next two years will be choppy sailing for Vancouver condolas.

#135 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.21.20 at 10:11 pm

@#130 Ponzies Preambulating Penultimate Putdowns

“So that you can read it again tomorrow morning when you’re sober.”

+++++
Well at the risk of plagiarizing Churchill…

“In the morning I shall be sober.
You shall still be Ponzie….”

#136 Garth's Son Drake on 10.21.20 at 10:23 pm

Looks like it is time to sell the house high and buy the downtown condo low.

I think that buying a condo over the winter could prove to be a great buying opportunity.

The big problem is how long will it be until one can return to downtown as one of the leading vaccines AstraZeneca just had a trial patient die. WTF?!

The belief of a vaccine this fall is proving to be an all out lie so far.

#137 Keith on 10.21.20 at 10:24 pm

@ #69

What did Harper do? As it turns out, rather a lot. Even kicking out the biased perspective of the source, there is plenty of contempt for parliament, dirty campaign practices and a general disdain for democracy under Stephen Harper. People who claim that voting Liberal or Conservative cleans the Ottawa swamp are delusional. Trudeau is no better of course, and the longer he remains in office the more will come to light.

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/

#138 Stan Brooks on 10.21.20 at 10:34 pm

Poorly constructed and insulated, small, cold, noisy units ‘fetching’ 10 k per square meter, with kitchen cabinets that start disintegrating 3 years after it is build, maintenance + property taxes over 1 k a month .. sure…

With the jobs moving away from the big cities ….

When the green economy really kicks in and the special assessments start, with carbon taxes escalating…
4 times decline in price in fast depreciating loonie could be the minimum for those pieces of crap.

As I said, this is just the beginning of the decline of the urban centres.

We just jumped 10-15 years into the jobless future, congratulations to the big mortgage ‘winners’ and ‘investors’.

Some of those units will never sell due to the outrages liability/cash outflow associated with it. That will only increase with time.

Good luck in renewing that mortgage even at zero rates.

50 years amortization in order to inflate the housing gas bag that now constitutes the backbone of the consumption based ‘economy’? Sure. Desperate times require desperate measures.

There is very little left besides housing folks. It should have been left to rotten in 2009 so the economy stabilizes and improves/see US but we choose the easy road and now at the end of it the bill is due.

Economy is oriented entirely towards housing and derived financial services, as those were the most profitable sectors, the competitive edge in the other sectors was lost with time.

Good luck in rebuilding this ‘G7’ economy.

When the dust settles GTA would look pretty much like a larger version of Buffalo, god forbid Detroit.

Never gonna happen?

Time will tell folks, time will tell.

Cheers,

#139 Looking up on 10.21.20 at 10:36 pm

Following the herd is almost always financial suicide. However the herd did very well in real estate over the last 20 years. Has “herd immunity “ run out in real estate finally? (Sorry couldn’t resist the pun)

#140 Russ on 10.21.20 at 10:44 pm

Jay on 10.21.20 at 5:45 pm

I’ve been watching question period a lot lately since i have become a prisoner in my own country.

The liberals engage in constant scandals, reckless spending, giving money to friends, and treat is all with arrogance at a level I’ve never seen before, acting like they are above the law, because it appears they actually are.

Yet we keep voting for the same B.S. What did Harper do again that was so bad that he had to be ousted at all cost? I’ve already forgot.
===========================

The Right Honourable Mr. Harper, being the Devil himself, prorogued Her Majesty’s Parliament.

For that, and abusing our esteemed host, he was punished severely.

Cheers, R

#141 Prairieboy43 on 10.21.20 at 11:04 pm

Chip Wilson doesn’t like BC NDP. Compares MEC failure to NDP.

While running lululemon, I had a policy of never, ever hiring anyone who worked at MEC. It comes as no surprise to me that the company had to be bought out of bankruptcy and rescued by an American Private Equity firm. Many people may wonder how a BC and Canadian institution, which in so many ways reflected the progressive agenda of environmental consciousness, diversity, social equality, and union hand-holding, as set out by the provincial NDP (but also read as the federal Liberals), could have failed.

Make no mistake, MEC failed because it is a co-op that, in theory, should have provided dividends to its members, had it made a profit. Inside the MEC socialist regime, the costs of providing inflated wages, of ensuring job security for inferior work, of employing people who should have likely been terminated but were kept for diversity percentage reasons or unionization, is a recipe for competitive failure.

MEC only attracted employees who believed it was egregious for employees to work more than 36 hours a week, who thought their job was safe no matter what their contribution, and who refused to take responsibility for a failing business. MEC was in competition with creative entrepreneurs who enjoy working 24/7, who develop employees to be great, and who propel the world forward — the same entrepreneurs who pay for Canada’s infrastructure and social programs.

See also:
BC court approves MEC’s sale to US investment firm
Chip Wilson releases unauthorized tell all book
Here’s all the BC election candidates running in every Metro Vancouver riding
Why BC’s election night results may not be final
When social justice is put ahead of profits, eventually, natural competition eliminates the weak. MEC attracted people who believed social justice trumped profits, just as the NDP attracts candidates who believe they have been dealt an unjust hand in life. These NDP candidates are out to rectify their perceived inequities by pushing an agenda of redistribution as opposed to creating the conditions required for entrepreneurs (and thus, the entire economy) to thrive. Whilst I love people who take action, unfortunately, it is these same people who have never had to risk their future, their family, and their reputation to start and build a business.

Our prime minister’s “executive experience” was as a drama schoolteacher. Premier Horgan’s most entrepreneurial job was as a waiter at the Keg (a job I also once held). John Horgan has lived off the profits of entrepreneurs who have paid taxes to support his government jobs. He has no experience with financial stress, commitment to employees, or the setbacks it takes to achieve profitability. But he has no problem blaming entrepreneurs for the failures of a socially just society.

MEC lasted for many years eating into profits they should have been giving back to its members. It kept waiting for a miracle to occur. The dream that customers would buy from them because it was socially just was madness. MEC ignored the fact that consumers want the best product at the best price.

If anyone thinks that the NDP is any different than MEC, they are misinformed. You cannot put out an inferior product and hide behind socially acceptable slogans and expect to fund social programs. Great societies provide incentives for people to build businesses that make money and tax just enough to encourage more entrepreneurs. The more entrepreneurs, the more money the government makes in taxes. And the more taxes, the more social systems can be put in place.

We shouldn’t forget about the UK rock stars who were taxed so heavily that they simply up and left the country. “Progressive” governments continue to repeat these same mistakes over and over.

The NDP is using the COVID-19 crisis to expand big government and take BC residents further into debt and to forward uneconomic social programs on the backs of entrepreneurs and our children. The NDP does this with socially acceptable phrases addressed to voters who do not understand finance or what policies small businesses need to be successful.

The NDP persuades voters by using phrases summed up by “it’s not fair.” As we go to the polls, I urge the undecided not to be blinded by social media headlines of unionized media writers and socialist university professors (who are also paid by entrepreneurs), but to vote for the reality that sustainable social programs require a strong economy.

In this election, if you want our province to end up like MEC, vote NDP.
PB43

#142 TurnerNation on 10.21.20 at 11:14 pm

WFH: last year in my small Dept. 25% of people, ok 4 is the number, were already phasing in WFH a few days a week. They loved the time and money savings.

#143 NSNG on 10.21.20 at 11:51 pm

Never trust a banker.

At whatever rate they are offering you money it is worth less. Sometimes much less.

#144 Sail Away on 10.22.20 at 12:04 am

I must apologize for my lack of participation here. Luckily, the excuse is good: it’s bird season! The new pup is very good but also very much a pup. Nothing is safe. My pride and joy, my beauty the Ferlach has gained toothmarks on the 1947 English walnut stock. So painful.

Tomorrow again we leave for another two weeks remote. I’ll make a point of stepping away from the fire and listening carefully the evening of Nov 3 for anguished screams.

#145 David Greene on 10.22.20 at 12:36 am

Ponzius: Where did you get that light number?
The BBC says the fine will be 3.5 billion.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54636002

The money will go to opioid treatment and abatement programs. The privately held company has agreed to pay a $3.5 billion fine as well as forfeit an additional $2 billion in past profits, in addition to the $2.8 billion it agreed to pay in civil liability.

Ponzius Pilatus on 10.21.20 at 9:16 pm

CEF
Purdue Pharma, the company that manufactured and pushed the addictive painkiller Oxycontin on tens of thousands of patients, has been fined 250 million.
Some would call the Executives of the firm murderers for allegedly knowingly causing thousands of overdose deaths.
Would you recommend a 10 year prison sentence for these pushers, too.

#146 NoName on 10.22.20 at 12:47 am

Here it is, geepsee pays Pink Floyd, on acordian, if this doesn’t britens you day nothing will. at beginning of the video, basicly dude sad he wrot down what he heard (close enough translation).

verse 2 (one that kids are singing) so you guys can follow it easier.

Vi dov ni tnou vetchiation l, vi dov ni tnou foduo. Hey ticha kitsa vitsa loooon…

https://youtu.be/0ptpP7w-BQY

#147 majik on 10.22.20 at 12:54 am

What those advocating for full-time WFH don’t realise is that if your work can be done at home with just a laptop, and without interaction, collaboration and creative brainstorming with team members, then it is just a job. A job that will be replaced by AI in the coming decades.

The biggest trade in the world of work is going to be EQ instead of IQ. Technology is going to help us leverage that dynamic. Your ability to interact with, persuade and empathize with other people is going to be your biggest selling point i.e. people skills. Nobody is improving their people skills while blankly staring at yet another video call. Bottomline, WFH is a career killer.

#148 Cheeky Goldman on 10.22.20 at 1:17 am

Given your example , the owner has already lost $240,000 and the unit still isn’t sold. Plus paying the $800 monthly strata, plus taxes? I’m halfway around the world and I can almost hear the wailing from here.

I don’t think it’s fair to say “ that the peak price was 780” , because peaks are always far overstretched out market norms. But pity the poor saps and sappets that bought at the peak only to hear that Shitty Hall had banned AirBB , raised taxes , just weeks after you’d closed your deal. And seriously, how did people end up getting sucked in to paying property mgmt strata fees of $2 a sq ft?

You do know that the 5 year prop mgmt award is always to the developers son in law, don’t you? The rush to buy and not read the fine print has obviously screwed a lot of uneducated spekkers.

And, you do know when you form the strata you can throw the bums out, don’t you? Your “set in stone” strata fee isn’t set in stone. If you don’t adopt the standard form you develop a new one, and then hire an independent property manager at a competitive rate.

I just had an image of one of those “ people kind” FOMO speculators crawling into a coffin and closing the lid on themselves. OMG, what a disaster.

Guys, the ‘34% ‘ drop is only the tip of the iceberg. Wait!! The Covid Winter hasn’t even started to chew up it’s inevitable victims. If Trudeau gets his way you’re property taxes and assets will be raised, frozen or stolen. There may be entire hi rise condos expropriated and confiscated to house the governments expected 350,000 new arrivals.

Don’t think “ the global re-set is a joke. Wheels are turning while you’ve been locked down. As we just saw Jagmeet and Justin have zero respect for democracy. Wednesday was two things, you’re wake up call, a nail in your coffin.

Resist every temptation to buy anything. Open an internet bank account with a Paypal acct or whatever you choose. Bitcoin is going to be very important for reasons that were never intended. If the NWO “ great reset “ had been announced pre Covid you’d have guffawed and called it all a prepper conspiracy. But now that Justin’s taking a run at it, what are you calling it?

Gold coins, BTC, Offshore internet banking? Once fringe thinking, not so much.

#149 NoName on 10.22.20 at 1:23 am

At least some things are going in right direction now days. Brandy made in Canada, vecchia canagdia i guess…

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGnGwNhrwsn/?igshid=y6y3chcirrhu

#150 Jane24 on 10.22.20 at 2:11 am

My brother lives in a large old school condo in Mississauga. He brought there for the shared pool, party room, sauna, gym, BBQs, squash court etc. For these goodies he pays a monthly condo fee of about $700 a month. These facilities have been closed since March and are likely to never reopen in their current form yet every month he has to pay that £700. Please think about this if tempted to buy a discounted condo.

#151 BillyBob on 10.22.20 at 5:41 am

Hmmm. Our building’s monthly maintenance fee (common area lighting and cleaning, garbage disposal, water, inspection and cleaning of chimney, management fee, contingency fund) is 132 CAD. Gas, electricity, and internet are 180 CAD. Total base costs per month are about 310 CAD/month. Without mortgage and rent the two of us each pay 150 Canuck bucks a month to live in one of the more beautiful cities in the world. And no “dirt” owned. Gasp!

Of course the option of relocating overseas isn’t practical for most, but choices can always be made to live more modestly (imagine that?!). My comparison is just to highlight the financial power of living somewhere less expensive.

Is it possible that maybe Canada is just really, really overpriced in every possible way?

The problem with relocating now though, is that the best time to prepare for a disaster isn’t after it begins. All the lemmings fleeing to the burbs fail to grasp this and Garth has correctly identified that they’re going to find themselves on the wrong side of the equation – again – when Covid eventually recedes. Buy high, sell low.

Things will get better, they always do. But not soon, not for everyone, and not before they get way worse.

#152 Toronto_CA on 10.22.20 at 5:51 am

#80 Silent Observer on 10.21.20 at 6:50 pm

My hat is tipped to you sir, thanks for the dialogue. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. The impacts of a potential (not certain) WFH revolution are staggering for city centres.

I’d love a post on what that would imply for the world if the hundreds of millions of office workers who have been WFH since March 2020 were to shift from 100% in the office (pre-covid) to 40% in the office (after covid).

If EY is calling for it or something like that, then it’s not outside of the realm of realistic outcomes.

#153 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.22.20 at 7:47 am

75 years after the end of the war.
Vancouver Veterans must fight enviro-nazis…

https://eminetra.ca/a-vancouver-council-report-suggests-that-veterans-will-encourage-driving-and-revoke-parking-privileges/52169/

Vancouver City Clowncil suggests veterans should “walk, ride a bicycle, or take public transit” to local events such as Remembrance Day…..

#154 TurnerNation on 10.22.20 at 7:57 am

Always our travel/movement rights are the target.
Already CV has created two classes of persons.
People tell me they’d like to travel overseas again.
But the two week quarantine…their job does not allow for it.
Only the Work From Home set may afford to #stayhome for two weeks.

Say a quarantine is to prevent spread of the unique diseases. But we’re told CV cases are everywhere. Why then are you locked at home for traveling?

The new green agenda – limiting travel – works in mysterious ways doesn’t it? They got us good.
All planned out in the New System.
Why all corporations lockstep began WFH prep in early March. Who tipped them off.

#155 Dharma Bum on 10.22.20 at 8:06 am

#95 Bill

Its called patients, that of which most people do not have = FOMO.
——————————————————————–

Mental patients?

Or do you mean “patience”?

#156 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.22.20 at 8:08 am

@#142 Prairie boy

re Mountain Equipment Co-op, NDP, etc etc etc.

There used to be a large , family owned bookshop in downtown Vancouver at Hornby and Robson.
I went in their one fall looking for a Christmas Present to buy for a retired relative who had served in the Canadian Navy.
I wanted to buy a book on military ships…..
I walked the entire store, upstairs and down….nothing.
No military section of any kind.
Puzzled, I went to the clerk at the front and asked if there were any books on the Navy.
He looked at me with disdain and said, “WE dont sell ANY books that glorify war!”
Hmmmmm.
“So you censor what your customers may want to buy.”
I pointed across the intersection to the new, HUGE, Chapters that was being built at Howe and Robson.

“Wake up. The competition is here.”

About 2 years later the owners were on the BC 6pm News wailing at the unfairness of foreign competition driving them out of business. Their venerable old family store that had served the community for decades.

The following Christmas their old store was empty and done….
Chapters was PACKED full of customers.
Now?
Vancouver city clowncil has driven almost all the big box retail store out of the downtown core through egregious taxes, limited, expensive parking, etc etc etc…
All the big box stores are now out in the burbs , conveniently accessible only by big polluting cars and busses……
The socialists arent getting any smarter.

#157 Dharma Bum on 10.22.20 at 8:12 am

#127 Ponzius Pilotlight

Purdue Pharma, the company that manufactured and pushed the addictive painkiller Oxycontin on tens of thousands of patients, has been fined 250 million.
Some would call the Executives of the firm murderers for allegedly knowingly causing thousands of overdose deaths.
Would you recommend a 10 year prison sentence for these pushers, too.
——————————————————————-

Yep.

Add ’em to my list, posted yesterday.

Charge: Murder One. Book ’em, Danno.

#158 IHCTD9 on 10.22.20 at 8:14 am

#151 Jane24 on 10.22.20 at 2:11 am
My brother lives in a large old school condo in Mississauga. He brought there for the shared pool, party room, sauna, gym, BBQs, squash court etc. For these goodies he pays a monthly condo fee of about $700 a month. These facilities have been closed since March and are likely to never reopen in their current form yet every month he has to pay that £700. Please think about this if tempted to buy a discounted condo.
___

This is where condo ownership goes off the rails in Canada. 700.00/month? How much would it cost to join a health club that had all this stuff (and more)? 50.00-100.00/mo?

The song remains the same – it’s the “luxuries” where people really get hosed.

#159 Apocalypse2020 on 10.22.20 at 8:14 am

#152 BillyBob has it right:

“….the best time to prepare for a disaster isn’t after it begins”

Global Catastrophe is only days ahead now.

Are you a fool?

If not,

PREPARE

#160 Dharma Bum on 10.22.20 at 8:23 am

Never. Buy. A. Condominium.

“Without land, a man is nothing”.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f95dc36d-aabf-4126-a9c5-833c37bc5213

“Land is a man’s very own soul.”

#161 Ace Goodheart on 10.22.20 at 8:24 am

Maxime Bernier doing his best to ensure that he will never be elected for anything, anywhere, ever:

https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/10/anti-masker-protest-toronto-turns-violent-queens-park/

#162 Another Deckchair on 10.22.20 at 8:35 am

@118 Howard

“Well it’s been 5 years of PM Twinkletoes and I’m still waiting for these now-unmuzzled scientists to unveil the earth-shattering news that they apparently couldn’t reveal when Harper was PM. When do you think they’ll get around to it?”

The Government department where I worked for a bit, close to 40% of those not having underlings got the sack. Scientists generally don’t have underlings. Lots of middle and higher up managers survived, no problem.

Those scientists are still doing their work, but elsewhere. Of course, the middle-management, the HR people, and those designing “Office spaces” are still working, but there’s almost nobody beneath them actually creating things of value.

Read post #142 here from Prarieboy43, compare “MEC” with the remnants of these scientific government offices, and you’ll get the picture.

#163 TurnerNation on 10.22.20 at 9:18 am

Once again this is about controlling our movements/travel, yes the #s on the telescreens do that.
Public health ? Not so much.
Imagine if the word ‘covid’ was replaced with Cancer.
Daily cases, treatment status; hospitalized; dead.
Naw they don’t care about out health. This is the soft kill method.
The State owns your body now. All that matters is the Headlines (getting into your heads and mind control) making you submit to the New System. We are in the normalization stage. Shutting down small business makes us healthier, I already feel better!!
New Green Agenda ushered in under guise of Medical tyranny. For your health Comrade. The world fell in March, decades of planning executed – so well.
….
“The National Post reports in its Thursday edition that the European Union has removed Canada, Tunisia and Georgia from its list of countries whose residents should be allowed to visit the bloc amid the COVID-19 pandemic. A Bloomberg dispatch to the Post says that the EU also opted to reopen its borders to travellers from Singapore as a result of improved virus trends there. The United States will remain blacklisted along with most other countries. The changes are the first in more than two months to the EU’S recommended travel “white list,” shrinking it from 11 foreign nations at present to nine. The update comes amid a resurgence in virus cases in Europe itself. Meanwhile, health officials in Toronto and Montreal struck vastly different tones on the state of COVID-19 in their cities on Wednesday, with Toronto’s medical officer of health warning the Ontario capital could be following in the footsteps of hard-hit Europe. Dr. Eileen de Villa said she was concerned with a one-day, 21-person rise in hospitalizations and a test positivity rate that climbed from 3.1 per cent to 4.4 per cent since Monday. In contrast, officials in Montreal said the situation in the city was “progressing in the right direction.”
© 2020 Canjex Publishing Ltd. All rights reserved.”

#164 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.22.20 at 9:58 am

@#160 Poxy2020
“Are you a fool?”

+++

You should avoid standing in front of a mirror when you ask that….

#165 YVR Expat on 10.22.20 at 10:03 am

In this article Klaus Schwab, Founder and Executive Chairman of World Economic Forum, argues that the long term economic consequences of the pandemic will exacerbate the climate and social crises that were already underway and this will make more urgent the “great reset” of our economic and social systems.

WFH is the solution to elite’s solution to climate change, no more commuting.

Just ask Klaus Schwab from the World Economic Form.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/klaus-schwab-nature-jobs-great-reset-podcast/

#166 Stone on 10.22.20 at 10:13 am

#54 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.21.20 at 4:38 pm
#14 SoggyShorts on 10.21.20 at 1:13 pm
#67 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 10:25 pm
#53 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 8:01 pm
#167 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 3:06 pm
#161 Faron on 10.20.20 at 2:13 pm
#151 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 12:25 pm

*****************************
1. I didn’t even know that you identified as a woman, so I’m not sure if it counts as mansplaining.
2.Your arguments are all over the map. I pointed out that the extreme on both sides are not representative of the middle, and you point out that the extremely woke are on both sides?
How is that different, and how do you immediately follow up by pointing out that it’s liberals who are doing damage with extreme wokeness?
Which is it? are the extremely woke bi-partisan or liberal only?

3. Your priorities are ridiculous.
How can you be more concerned with the extreme left canceling a few women for saying the latest non-PC thing compared to the far-right putting a 6th and probably 7th or 8th conservative supreme court justice on the bench who will almost certainly overturn roe v. wade?
How on earth can you be worried about women’s sex-based rights and want a conservative supermajority on the bench for the next 40 years?

////////////

1. You’re a man calling out someone’s researched and informed opinion, citing no reference or expertise, ipso facto mansplaining.

2. “Peak woke bs” refers to reaching the point where one can no longer sit quietly while fools are complicit in their own abuse. Liberals are policing this woke bs, both liberals and conservatives are pushing back. Not conflicting statements.

3. I have no control over SCOTUS, and as a Canadian it doesn’t affect me directly. If the Dems win, they’ll add justices to the court. SCOTUS has been 5-4 conservative for a while, but decisions have been quite balanced with conservative appointees siding with liberal members on some decisions. If Trump wins, with the eldest justice only 70 years old, there’s no guarantee that he’ll get to appoint anyone in the next 4 years. As for my priorities, women’s legal rights apply to 51% of the population but abortion rights apply to a smaller percentage of women of child-bearing age. Do the most good for the greatest number.

———

What about womansplaining? Apparently, it’s just as stupid.

I’m all about equality.

#167 Steerage Apprenticeship on 10.22.20 at 10:14 am

#161 Dharma Bum on 10.22.20 at 8:23 am
Never. Buy. A. Condominium.

“Without land, a man is nothing”.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f95dc36d-aabf-4126-a9c5-833c37bc5213

“Land is a man’s very own soul.”
………

“For Duddy had never forgotten that his grandfather had said, ‘A man without land is nobody.”

#168 Justin S on 10.22.20 at 10:19 am

Garth – I don’t know how you do it. The amount of nonsense you have to sift through in the comments is astounding.

Are people really naive enough to think that office towers will become obsolete? Or become residential buildings?

Are people really naive enough to think that fleeing to Peterborough, St. Catharines, London or any other far-flung suburb from Toronto will look like a smart move in 1, 3, 5 years?

People here can’t really believe that, can they?

Cities are extremely resilient. I promise you a virus with a 99.9% survival rate for those under 50 will NOT be the death of cities. To believe otherwise is simply foolish.

#169 RyYYZ on 10.22.20 at 11:02 am

#38 jal on 10.21.20 at 3:43 pm
******
There is only one way to make money in the condo market.
Be the property manager and advisor to the owners, (mostly retired widows), who have never had maintenance and construction experience.
==================================

The regulatory burden on Condo Corportations (I’m on the board of directors for a townhouse condo corp) pretty much requires that you employ a property manager to produce all the required documentation and ensure all the rules and requirements are met. Also, being on the board is a huge pain in the ass with few rewards and many headaches. No wonder so many condo boards end up in the hands of motivated busy-bodies – most normal people don’t want the hassles (and can’t even be bothered to show up to an annual meeting).

If I even buy another house, it will be a freehold – no condo board, no HOA, none of that BS.

#170 SeeB on 10.22.20 at 11:05 am

#118 Howard on 10.21.20 at 8:38 pm

#82 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 6:51 pm

Personally the biggest things off the top of my head would be the muzzling scientists…

————————————–

This again?

Well it’s been 5 years of PM Twinkletoes and I’m still waiting for these now-unmuzzled scientists to unveil the earth-shattering news that they apparently couldn’t reveal when Harper was PM. When do you think they’ll get around to it?

————————————————————–

I guess the planet becoming less habitable for humans doesn’t even rate high enough for your strict standards. A PM liking socks seems like a greater travesty for whatever reason…

Anyway, before making a knee jerk post, try to actually use that vast right-wing research power to type “harper muzzling scientists” into google:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/canadian-scientists-open-about-how-their-government-silenced-science-180961942/

#171 TurnerNation on 10.22.20 at 11:07 am

Comrades! Our globalists have planned the winter for us. Remember there is no more news only Predictive Programming
We must Stop the Spread of Capitalism. This is the New System. The soft kill method,
Your Every step, your every breath, you daily rituals – all controlled by the State.

From what I’ve seen the global CV rollout will last till Sept 2021. Submit now. It will be easier.


A long, dark winter’: Experts worry about mental health in first full COVID-19 winter
Melissa Couto Zuber
The Canadian Press
….

Seen elsewhere, the shut downs work!! Jobs killed.

https://www.adp.ca/en/resources/adp-canada-ner.aspx

#172 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.22.20 at 11:12 am

#154 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.22.20 at 7:47 am
75 years after the end of the war.
Vancouver Veterans must fight enviro-nazis…

https://eminetra.ca/a-vancouver-council-report-suggests-that-veterans-will-encourage-driving-and-revoke-parking-privileges/52169/

Vancouver City Clowncil suggests veterans should “walk, ride a bicycle, or take public transit” to local events such as Remembrance Day…..
—————
Here’s your chance to honor the heroes who fought for your right to babble on this blog:
Give them a ride!
And tell them some of your hilarious anecdotes.
Or better not. The’ve sacrificed enough already.

#173 SeeB on 10.22.20 at 11:19 am

#132 n1tro on 10.21.20 at 10:05 pm

#43 SeeB on 10.21.20 at 4:06 pm

—————————————————————-

Nice use of the “bold” function. Makes you seem more qualified (not really).

Anyway:
***
Back in April, no one was actually all that sure about it. Anyone claiming that at the time did not have all the facts. The misinformation masters and science denialists turned what should have been a search for the best method to curtail a pandemic into a political fight. The other side took the bait like trained seals, as expected, and now we are where we are.

You statements are contradicting itself it is hard to keep up. In April, no one knew exactly what was going on (because this is the first pandemic the world has faced)??
****

You know what it was called the “Novel Coronavirus”? Novel means “New”. New means: “1.
not existing before; made, introduced, or discovered recently or now for the first time.”

Apparently scientists have discovered that the virus can live on human skin for up to 9 hours, but still are trying to figure out if it can transmit that way.

****

Ok, let’s pretend this pandemic is nothing like the others. The assumption no one knew what was going on for sure includes the scientists at the WHO which made the recommendation to shut the economy down. Dumbass governments followed along with the media pumping out scary headlines for clicks.

Calling “I told you so” because some quack seeking clicks on a Youtube video said so back in April is disingenuous.

Calling “I told you so” because the numbers show that covid-19 kills like a strong flu strain that affects the old and compromised is on the money. Locking the economy down again, cancelling Halloween, fear mongering of a wave 2 with all the “new cases” even though the amount of testing has increased by multiple folds (which logically would up the positive counts), not reporting the amount of deaths but focusing only the “cases”, etc…. that is disingenuous.

****

Again – “Novel” – We still don’t know for sure if this strain causes blindness or liver failure 5 years from now or some other issue. I know, a very extreme and unlikely scenario, but it’s still better to take some precautions like masking and not spreading the virus around indiscriminately.

My main point is if North American society could trust denialists to wear their masks, wash their hands, and follow guidelines, we could be full open tomorrow, since we’d be doing everything WITHIN REASON.

Also It’s not a flu, so “strong flu” makes no sense. Apples and Oranges. But I guess you want to compare raw numbers.

The previous (and still current in some circles) talking point from the extreme right back in April when the US death count was lower, was that the FLU itself is worse. But now it’s a strong flu since we have a few months behind us. Okay, sure there bud.

I guess soon once the numbers get higher, you’ll be telling us it’s like a “strong car crash”, or, heaven forbid, a “strong cancer”.

****

I guess the only good news this year is, no one died of old age or natural causes in 2020

****

That’s just a dumb hyperbolic analogy and you know it.

#174 Spacemouse on 10.22.20 at 11:19 am

I would agree that owning some dirt is probably better than these high rise condos.

However, keep in mind that you never really own your land either. All land is owned by the crown. You’re given land tenure aka permission to hold that land.

Just a little tid bit of info that most people are unaware of.

Have a great day, everyone!

#175 George S on 10.22.20 at 12:02 pm

#118 Howard said:
“This again?

Well it’s been 5 years of PM Twinkletoes and I’m still waiting for these now-unmuzzled scientists to unveil the earth-shattering news that they apparently couldn’t reveal when Harper was PM. When do you think they’ll get around to it?”

The reason you didn’t notice anything is that you aren’t a scientist and don’t “hang out” with them. It takes quite a few years to notice the effects of “muzzling” scientists and ignoring their advice, an example would be the current situation of the East Coast Cod Fishery. The Harper government was systematically dismantling any government involvement with science and instead basing government policy on superstition and gut feelings.

#176 Love_The_Cottage on 10.22.20 at 12:19 pm

#169 Justin S on 10.22.20 at 10:19 am
Are people really naive enough to think that office towers will become obsolete? Or become residential buildings?
___________
I don’t recall anyone saying office towers will be obsolete. I HAVE heard people say that the work remotely trend was already happening and was accelerated due to COVID. So less people in offices, not none. More flexibility in the workforce, not less. More productivity due to technology and not spending time commuting. If your employees aren’t productive then you hired the wrong employees. Fire them and get someone who works hard regardless of where they are sitting.

Yes, there are advantages to team building and relationships when in a common location. Just like there are advantages to not being in the same location all the time.

Will the office towers start to fill back up? Of course they will. Will it return to the previous levels? I highly doubt it.

There are those who are not seeing these long term trends and that’s fine. I’ve been working remotely in IT for years. I just finished up a call with resources from all over the world working on a project. Development will continue overnight here by those in India resulting in a shorter implementation time. Younger workers take this as the norm not the exception.

I talk to my financial advisor every few months. I ask each time if he’s at home or in the office that day. No way for me to tell the difference and frankly I don’t care where he is.

#177 belly rubs on 10.22.20 at 12:35 pm

#149 Cheeky Goldman on 10.22.20 at 1:17 am

Great reset’ers and global socialists aren’t planners. They’re idealists. They might have big plans, but reality bites and turns them into day-by-day reactionaries. They consistently dismiss humans’ greatest virtues: apathy, stubbornness, rebellion, and grouch. I anticipate wheel spinning, motivational speeches, debt addling, boring stagflation, and maybe some private sector bubble wrap. The popping sound is volatility. The hissing sound is money moving into havens.

Aside, are urban condos a haven? Not if the carrying charges chew up value. As Garth eludes… If buying, maybe suggest perks and incentives. Look for fear in their eyes. Personally, I think condos are a vertical tax farm, but then, I can’t hit a golf ball the length of my driveway and who wants to plow that? Canada: big, wide, open, boreal.

Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, Halifax… you know, from space you look like zits.

#178 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.22.20 at 12:37 pm

@#173 Ponzies Poppy Parade

“Give them a ride!
And tell them some of your hilarious anecdotes.
Or better not. The’ve sacrificed enough already.”

+++
Sure I’ll tell another one!
Glad you asked!
Actually I used to help out during the CFL Vets appreciation ride.
We would deck out the old army jeeps and trucks for the vets and they would ride out onto the field during half time.
Got to meet some great people young and old.
I went to Smokey Smith at his last honorary dinner.
Got to shake his hand and see his Victoria Cross from two feet away.
Someone handed him a huge cigar and he lit it indoors and puffed away on stage while the speeches dragged on.
He was the guest of honor and defied anyone to tell him not to smoke.

#179 Penny Henny on 10.22.20 at 12:39 pm

#155 TurnerNation on 10.22.20 at 7:57 am
Always our travel/movement rights are the target.
Already CV has created two classes of persons.
People tell me they’d like to travel overseas again.
But the two week quarantine…their job does not allow for it.
Only the Work From Home set may afford to #stayhome for two weeks.

Say a quarantine is to prevent spread of the unique diseases. But we’re told CV cases are everywhere. Why then are you locked at home for traveling?

The new green agenda – limiting travel – works in mysterious ways doesn’t it? They got us good.
/////////////////

Ask yourself why aren’t flight attendants quarantining after a flight out of Canada? Not even after a layover?

#180 Don Guillermo on 10.22.20 at 12:57 pm

#178 belly rubs on 10.22.20 at 12:35 pm

I can’t hit a golf ball the length of my driveway

**************************************
I used to golf like that

#181 Nixter on 10.22.20 at 1:04 pm

@Turner Nation
Inquiring minds would like to know the name of the book and author from the sixties who had an inside view of what is here now.
Thanks

#182 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.22.20 at 1:55 pm

#167 Stone on 10.22.20 at 10:13 am
#54 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.21.20 at 4:38 pm
#14 SoggyShorts on 10.21.20 at 1:13 pm
#67 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 10:25 pm
#53 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 8:01 pm
#167 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 10.20.20 at 3:06 pm
#161 Faron on 10.20.20 at 2:13 pm
#151 SoggyShorts on 10.20.20 at 12:25

___________________

What about womansplaining? Apparently, it’s just as stupid.

I’m all about equality.

////////////////////

No rebuttal, no facts, no point, knee-jerk emotional response = dude throwing a mantrum.

#183 Nonplused on 10.23.20 at 2:35 am

#130 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.21.20 at 9:50 pm
#111 nonpussed
I’m glad that Garth let that post pass.
So that you can read it again tomorrow morning when you’re sober.

————————

Well that would be interesting if I could in anyway understand what your point was. I literally cannot respond. The only thing you did was accuse me of being drunk. I may as well now accuse you of abusing goats. It is ridiculous to cast about aspersions. But unfortunately that is politics today.