Deeper & deeper

Did you think it would take this long? Me neither.

The hammer came down mid-March. Now it’s August, almost. Yesterday Scotiabank says it  decided few, if any, workers would return to its gleaming, 68-storey Toronto head office tower at King & Bay Streets in 2020. In the spring. Perhaps. Google announced a few days ago its people are gone until next summer. It’s a long list of companies gathering.

Schools may or may not reopen in September, depending on where you are. Some will be in shifts. There’s big doubt it can even work, with kids in masks, six feet apart. A few sniffles and the place will be an evac zone.

Well, the economic implications cannot be overstated. Social distancing and employers running from risk mean we’re staring at uncertainty, unemployment and financial stress for months to come. Maybe two years, until that mythical vax hits your arm. To date about $60 billion in income loss has been made up in CERB payments while employers flow through even more in payroll subsidies. Monthly obligations have been waived through large-scale payment deferrals.

The question: how long can this last?

When it comes to mortgages the answer seems to be another 120 days. As of now about 800,000 households have stopped making payments. Those who quit in March are set to resume in September. Many will. Many won’t. Many can’t. Canada is a nation of debtors with families carrying $1.6 trillion in mortgage loans, more than $180 billion worth not currently being serviced. Debt has spiked in the past year, mostly because all the missed mortgage payments are being added to the amount owing. Folks wo think this is a ‘mortgage holiday’ were not paying attention.

So what comes next?

Australia may give us a clue. That, too, is a land of unfettered real estate lust and widespread house horniness. Property speculation is a national pastime, and politicians have shamelessly pandered to it. As a result, big Aussie cities have (like Toronto and Vancouver) insane housing prices and an economy way, way, way too dependent on citizens flogging houses to each other. (The Australian GDP is just a little smaller than ours and 15% of it is real estate-driven. Yeah, like us.)

We have 37 million people. They have 25 million. We both have 800,000 people not paying their home loans. And everybody’s worried.

Like ours, the Aussie government facilitated a six-month mortgage deferral period, and in recent days this has been extended by another four. But it is not automatic. The extension will be granted only to those who are in financial difficulty, find it impossible to make mortgage payments, and can prove it. Those who cannot establish hardship will be expected to resume payments, or to sell their real estate. As for the others: “Customers will be expected to work with their bank, during this extra time, to find the best solution for them,” says the Australian Banking Association. “It is in their interest to repay debt sooner.”

You betcha. Because every missed payment means borrowers owe more. Real estate equity is diminished. Financial positions are weakened. Net worth affected. Credit tarnished.

(By the way in the UK, where almost two million people deferred mortgage payments, there are media reports banks have been given the green light to deny renewals or new financings to people who took the loan holiday. A survey of brokers found 59% have had clients rejected due to a loan deferral or the fact they’ve been receiving a support cheque – like the CERB. It is folly to think lenders in Canada aren’t keeping the same records, nor that consequences won’t flow.)

So, what next here?

Soon, in the next week or two, CMHC will tell the mortgage deadbeats what their options are. Yes, an extension will be offered and, yup, probably four months – no payments until January of 2021. But this time will not be like last time, when everybody and his cat got approved for a deferral. As this pathetic blog reported then, lenders were absolutely besieged with requests (many from people perfectly able to pay but who didn’t want to, or were scared) and rejected nobody.

The missed payments are being capitalized – added to the principal, then amortized. Borrowers owe more. Monthly payments will rise. But the no-pay party will still come to an end for a boatload of people come the autumn. Only those folks who might quickly slide into default will be thrown a new lifeline.

That will come in the form of more months of deferral, but only when the lender (not the government) determines the homeowner doesn’t have the resources to pay; an extended amortization of the outstanding loan, reducing future payments but increasing accrued interest;  a negotiated restructuring; or further capitalization of future payments. In all of these instances, be aware that your credit will be impacted – whatever codswallop you might have read about deferrals being risk-free.

And what happens if tens or hundreds of thousands of people with mortgages still can’t pay when the winter comes?

Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.

185 comments ↓

#1 Eaglebay on 07.29.20 at 2:43 pm

“Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.”

That is so funny. I like your style.

#2 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.29.20 at 2:46 pm

“Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia….”

++++

ahahahaha.

“Banished” Bill Morneau has a nice ring to it…..

#3 Polecat on 07.29.20 at 2:48 pm

I’m feeling some Paul Martin era austerity coming in the future

#4 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.29.20 at 2:52 pm

“Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.”

Mr T., you sly genius… Please tell us you know something!! That Kielburger grilling was brutal yesterday… Our PM will be getting it tomorrow. (10 personal days in 2 weeks, was he getting prepped with lawyers)…

Lessons learned – if you’re going to run a charity, do it because you are a philanthropist, otherwise, just run an actual business. And if you’re going to lobby the government, make sure you’re registered to do so…

#5 Bob on 07.29.20 at 2:52 pm

Well, so much for the deferral “cliff.” I guess the party goes on after all. When will the madness ever end?

#6 Leftover on 07.29.20 at 2:52 pm

What happens next is banks will suggest to anyone who deferred their mortgage that now is the time to sell, not later. Banks hate foreclosures.

All this at a time when even mainstream pundits are recommending an end to the capital gain exemption on principal residences:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-it-wont-be-popular-but-we-should-scrap-the-homeowner-tax-break/

Holy cash-cow, Batman, sell that house!

#7 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.29.20 at 2:53 pm

@#148 bill
” I despise these crooks. Ive emailed both the finace minister and T2. Telling them to resign. Zero accountability or understanding what a trillion in debt will be.”

++++

Yep,
A poo flinging monkey could do a better job than these political hacks.

Taxes?
We aint seen nuthin yet….

#8 Captain Uppa on 07.29.20 at 2:57 pm

I more wonder what will happen if the world shuts down again because of large subsequent waves. I know a mass shutdown is unlikely, but no one saw Covid coming either.

#9 Yukon Elvis on 07.29.20 at 3:01 pm

Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.
……………………..

She will say whatever Crime Minister Alfred E. Trudeau tells her to say.

#10 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 07.29.20 at 3:03 pm

Well not sure what is next but I can share what is now.
It is summer here in the beautiful BC, sunny, roads are packed, ice cream on sale and people are YOLO’ing it all over the place.The long weekend is coming and the caravans to the Island and Okanogan are starting to form. Pandemic ,what pandemic and why worry when the gov will take care of it ?
So enjoy life, don’t buy RE you can’t afford, stay invested, sell your winners and keep your losers ..or was it the other way around ?

#11 catzndogz on 07.29.20 at 3:06 pm

Buy smaller houses, people. Less cost up front, less cost to maintain. And you won’t have as much room to accumulate cr*p. And your kids won’t have room to bounce back to.

#12 Crazy Times on 07.29.20 at 3:11 pm

I’m not sure what’s happening, but houses are flying off the shelf’s everywhere. Condos swooped up after just being purchased. Rentals, what rentals – there is no vacancy anywhere and the price for rent crazy! One bedrooms going for 2 grand a month.

What gives?

People not paying their rent or mortgages but a person can’t find a place to buy or rent. People supposedly loosing their jobs but the real estate and rental market is on fire.

I don’t know what’s happening, but clearly people are being approved for these cheap mortgages and have the money for crazy rent prices.

#13 Faron on 07.29.20 at 3:11 pm

#162 Sail Away on 07.29.20 at 2:14 pm

Cheers for that.

#14 Leichendiener on 07.29.20 at 3:12 pm

‘Finance Minister Chrystia’ has a nice ring to it.

#15 Oakville Rocks! on 07.29.20 at 3:14 pm

HA! Very clever Garth!

Freeland is good but she is no finance minister (not because she is a woman but a journalist).

Why not someone like Jean-Yves Duclos instead?
If they are really desperate, why not make space for Mark Carney?

But the big question is how can T2 move Morneau given his own dealings with WE?

Any thoughts of running for a MacKay led Conservative party in the maritimes or would Dorothy kill you for even thinking about it?

Anything can happen. I just hope the Conservatives can get their act together to present a credible alternative to this government. A weakened Lib party even more beholden to the NDP or Bloc gives me nightmares.

#16 espressobob on 07.29.20 at 3:17 pm

The economic damage due to covid has hardly begun. Evictions,foreclosures & bankruptcies on the horizon.

Plan B for those of us who are investors is starting to look good.
What’s in your wallet?

#17 cramar on 07.29.20 at 3:24 pm

So since this is a finacial blog, the question of the year is:

Is Shopify here to stay? Being the Canadian equivalent of Amazon (roughly), is it going to endure?

Or is it going to be another Nortel or RIM, and crash ‘n burn like so many other high-flying Canadian success stories of the past?

If you take its current evaluation in U.S. dollars, it is worth more than twice GM & Ford combined! It’s worth more than the Royal Bank!

Insanity?

What do the dogs think?

#18 Overheardyou on 07.29.20 at 3:34 pm

I still think the government will just borrow more to help these hopeless souls pay their irresponsible debts. Put it on the future tax tab for the nation, not like there’s a limit anyway.

#19 Doug t on 07.29.20 at 3:37 pm

Debt Jubilee anyone?

#20 it never ceases to amaze me on 07.29.20 at 3:40 pm

deadbeats who overpaid for real estate and now that they can’t pay, need subsidies and deferrals and support from the government just to stay afloat. only because central banks kept rates abnormally low for .. oh, i don’t know, 20 years?

how’s that different from zombie companies that need bailouts in order to operate, or are able to repay the interest on their debts but not repay the principal. only because,… again, central banks made borrowing easy, free money after 2000, after 2008, and now, hey, they’re just printing money and buying corporate bonds.. solution to printing too much money, is to print some more.. wow!

you’re OK with the FED printing money to save deadbeat zombie companies… but individuals? up the creek without a paddle. screw them..

why shouldn’t the government just print money and give to individuals too? why just deadbeat corporations?

oh, i know. you own stocks… privatize the profits, socialize the losses. great model for capitalism.

why don’t you speak up about how the FED is propping up zombie companies? why don’t you speak up about how the FED has created this problem?

you praise them for “saving us” in March, but they ARE THE problem. every time the stock market drops, the FED has to step in and save the behinds of how many useless indebted companies at the expense of the public? save the Banks, save the Airlines, save Hotels,….

right…. i’d love to hear.

#21 The Party Won’t End on 07.29.20 at 3:40 pm

Of course they delayed the cliff and old CERB will be back again come this fall when the second wave hits. The second wave will come and they will lock us down again, which is fine, if it’s needed, it’s needed. Look what’s happening in the States, it’s bad – I know I have family there. It’s not made up folks, it’s bad! I also have family in Italy, and they will shut right back down again this fall when the numbers start climbing. We know this thing ain’t going away, just like the Spanish flu, almost 3 years to finally go away. And waiting on a mystical alien DNA vaccine, don’t hold your breath, we are still waiting for one on Ebola, AIDS etc. These viruses are tricky.

Everyone, lap up the semi freedom right now, cause round two is barreling down on us come September.

Kids back at school, no way, sure they will try but the numbers will start rising as soon as those doors open. The govt shut everything down when Ontario’s numbers were at 400 right before the March break. Sure we are at around 100 give or take right now, but it won’t take long in the fall to rise to 400 and them BAM, doors shut, CERB back and deferred cliff, extended for all.

#22 Felix on 07.29.20 at 3:42 pm

” But this time will not be like last time, when everybody and his cat got approved for a deferral.”

Typical anti-feline RACISM.

Only useless, dogawful, sycophantic canines would ever apply for a deferral. Irresponsible, crotch-sniffing money bunglers that they are.

Cats don’t need to.

We run the banks. (Shhhh. Don’t tell anyone)

#23 DownToFinance on 07.29.20 at 3:44 pm

#5 Bob on 07.29.20 at 2:52 pm
Well, so much for the deferral “cliff.” I guess the party goes on after all. When will the madness ever end?

Never. This is Canada, where people want UBI and socialized losses.

#24 Econ 101 on 07.29.20 at 3:45 pm

Yes, sure, why not? She handled the Meng case like a champ, and there was no ethics violation while she was Deputy PM. So why not put a journalist in charge of the Country’s finances? Last time I checked:

-Budgets balance themselves
-Everyone is a trust fund baby
-Oil is better when it comes from ‘not here’
-Equalization is meant to be unequal
-Feminism is not hatred to/for men
-Physical characteristics trumps qualifications and competence
-Socialism works
-Illegal immigration is not breaking the law

We’re but a few tiny bolts in a machine full of nuts!

#25 Dolce Vita on 07.29.20 at 3:45 pm

“Well, let’s see what *Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.”

*Prime Minister

———————————-

An historic, tragic epitaph in the making.

Torn between sympathy for cold-cocked Canadians, financially fine had there been no damn virus vs. dismay at those that were skating on thin ice with little or no savings to weather an economic storm.

The Plague has been on both their houses.

Shylock will have his pound of flesh and the Piper will have to be paid.

All’s Well That Ends Well?

Doubtful.

#26 jess on 07.29.20 at 3:46 pm

https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/antitrust-hearing-tech-ceos/index.html

==========

https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781620975411
“Monopolies ”

Dayen writes that there were 11,470 merger deals in 2016 and another 13,024 in 2017. How much money is involved as an incentive to do these deals? Dayen reveals that General Electric has paid out $6 billion in M&A fees since 2000. (Not to put too fine a point on it, but GE’s stock price closed on Friday at $6.86 – 4 pennies from its all-time low. GE was a $50 stock in 2000. On top of the $6 billion that investment bankers extracted from the company, its former CEO Jack Welsh extracted $417 million in a golden parachute when he retired in 2001 while former CEO Jeff Immelt received $211 million in 2017.)

Dayen also walks us through Bayer’s purchase of Monsanto in 2018, noting that it produced $700 million in fees for Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse, HSBC and JPMorgan, and even more for the law firms representing each side

==========

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/07/david-dayens-new-book-exposes-the-dirty-hands-of-wall-street-driving-monopoly-power-in-u-s/

#27 akashic record on 07.29.20 at 3:48 pm

Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.

Most likely what she had to say in the past as a senior politician in Trudeau’s and Morneau’s party and government. Not a solution.

#28 Wrk.dover on 07.29.20 at 3:53 pm

#60 Wrk.dover on 07.21.20 at 6:09 pm
Those low rates not only suck and cajole people into fat debts and unearned home ownership, they also fuel stocks.

———————————

So I will buy stock in the company that has borrowed the most money and plans to borrow yet more!

——————————————-

Kodak Baby!! Borrowing 3/4 billion!

The man pumped it on Sk Box CNBC, I bought pre-open yesterday, sold enough just now to get my money back + 14%, and still have double the original amt. in shares inside the TSFA.

Second stock transaction in my life. And done.
Bought to hold.

#29 jess on 07.29.20 at 3:56 pm

https://prospect.org/topics/david-dayen/

interesting :

Mapping Corruption:
The Interactive Exhibit

The Trump administration has brought its brand of corruption and self-dealing to every agency in the federal government, and it’s hard for anyone to keep on top of it all. We’ve mapped it out for you. Click on any agency building below, and unlock an extensive dossier of the activities happening inside.

========
https://news.ontario.ca/omafra/en/2020/07/helping-ontario-farmers-protect-our-water-and-lakes.html

https://www.desmogblog.com/

#30 Dolce Vita on 07.29.20 at 3:58 pm

The Daily Mail:

UK Government signs ‘£500 million’ deal with drug giants GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi for 60 million doses of fourth potential coronavirus vaccine.

UK population:

67.9 million.

(UK Gov expecting/counting on 7.9 million infected [that lived] and have antigens)

—————————–

All things being equal, then expect *Morneau to order 30 million doses for Canada.

*or Chrysta

#31 espressobob on 07.29.20 at 3:59 pm

#17 Cramer

Taking on unsystemic risk is a mugs game.

Wake up!

#32 JB on 07.29.20 at 4:02 pm

#12 Crazy Times on 07.29.20 at 3:11 pm

I’m not sure what’s happening, but houses are flying off the shelf’s everywhere. Condos swooped up after just being purchased. Rentals, what rentals – there is no vacancy anywhere and the price for rent crazy! One bedrooms going for 2 grand a month.

What gives?

People not paying their rent or mortgages but a person can’t find a place to buy or rent. People supposedly loosing their jobs but the real estate and rental market is on fire.

I don’t know what’s happening, but clearly people are being approved for these cheap mortgages and have the money for crazy rent prices.
………………………………………………………………
Same in my neighborhood homes and down the street Towns flying off the shelf. Every couple that has bought have money on our street. Prices are still going up from even a few months ago. Cheap mortgages are continuing to fuel the market. Only when the mortgages are increased will a slowdown occur. Toronto is always going to be a selling market but I cant see this going on for more than another year or two. I think the shit will hit the fan in end of 2021 or 2022. That will be the glass ceiling for sure. Until then your property will simply continue to appreciate naturally.

#33 Penny Henny on 07.29.20 at 4:05 pm

#156 Faron on 07.29.20 at 1:16 pm

Good day to you all here. I’ve already wasted far too much of Garth’s and my time today.

/////////////

I find it helpful to read the comments a day late. I am much less inclined to get all caught up in the stupidity

#34 Adele on 07.29.20 at 4:07 pm

I contacted BEEMO this week about changing the accounts that show up when I use my bank card at a retail POS machine. Nope, not possible. All customer service resources are attending to “financial relief” requests. Not a single person to help solvent customers with a routine request.

#35 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 4:11 pm

#17 cramar

Shopify? Shoplift is what my iPhone autocorrects to!

Insanity – no doubt. But that’s common sense, so it will go opposite because we live in bizarro world.

More broadly, is there a tech bubble v2.0?

#36 JB on 07.29.20 at 4:15 pm

#12 Crazy Times on 07.29.20 at 3:11 pm

The end of this epidemic is closer than most of us would believe. My wife’s hospital outpatient clinics are doing trials re COVID and the results are promising. The science in distancing rules and containment behind the scenes is showing that we are on the right track to end this outbreak. After this disease is corralled that the real estate insanity will continue.

#37 JB on 07.29.20 at 4:20 pm

Masks now mandatory in Condos and apartments buildings. About time, they should have done that in March and it would have saved a lot of people from dying unnecessarily due to high density transfer. Especially in elevators and corridors.

#38 Learn2investkid.com on 07.29.20 at 4:22 pm

Hey Garth,

I heard people are deferring their first mortgages with banks but paying their second higher interest mortgages with private lenders. What can the banks do in this situation?

#39 Kevin on 07.29.20 at 4:22 pm

Lol I prefer Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland. Seems most competent and capable, and least damaged, in that cabinet.

#40 Dolce Vita on 07.29.20 at 4:24 pm

Cause for some concern from Europe with the damn virus, new cases yesterday:

Spain 1828
Romania 1151
Ukraine 919
France 725
UK 581
Germany 572
Poland 502
Sebia 379
Belgium 234
Netherlands 223

Italia 212

Canada 397
America ∞

————————-

Cause for even more concern (UK’s BBC: “Devastated Travellers react to Spain quarantine rules):

“I’m a key worker – I’m a teacher – and my boyfriend has work commitments so we cannot quarantine for 14 days when we return”.

————————-

Agree Garth, this will drag on for a year at least even with a vaccine. It will take a long time to vaccinate the Planet, a long time…and according to Leger:

“70% of *Canadians and 60% of Americans intend to get the COVID-19 vaccine when it becomes available.”

*Thus, order 26.3 million doses for Canada.

#41 A J on 07.29.20 at 4:26 pm

People are fleeing the city. I see it in my rental building, which has movers outside every other day, and the rental buildings around me. We went from “waitlist” to tons of rentals available now. And the rental prices have fallen below $2,000 a month. I check almost every day just to stay on top of the trends. A friend of mine in the adjacent rental building was living with a roommate who is quitting and leaving the city. Naturally, he has to move now too. The building gave him the run around about moving out. Questioning his motives and begging him to stay. I know this is just one pocket of the city, but I’m sure it’s a wider trend. People who have been eyeing the suburbs now have the ability to make the leap. Expect real estate to keep climbing. Only when there are consequences for over leveraging yourself will people pay heed. Otherwise, they can keep snorfling debt and be bailed out. And our economy will continue to balance precariously on a mountain of debt.

#42 Camille on 07.29.20 at 4:30 pm

Yeah, today it looks that way (bad), but I estimate based on current second wave of virus data, this should turn again by end of August, or thereabouts, maybe just in time for September school re-openings. Doesn’t change anything for now though; then diminishing third wave, then fourth… Stocks and bonds supported by diminishing cases and vaccine progress.
Thank you for your excellent Australia points!

#43 Jake on 07.29.20 at 4:42 pm

According to Dr. Fauci, kids 9 and older can spread the virus like any adult. In major cities, the right thing to do would be to keep schools closed this Fall. It’s an impossible task to keep germy kids from spreading to friends, parents, grandparents, teachers, etc.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/dr-fauci-says-kids-over-9-years-old-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-as-well-as-adults-as-some-schools-reopen.html

#44 Adam Smith on 07.29.20 at 4:45 pm

Hey Garth, what is your feeling, will deferrals be given if people have multiple properties or will they have to sell the second (or third or fourth…) so they can pay for the first?

#45 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 4:54 pm

Re: Vaccine

Honestly, who’s rolling up their sleeve for these rushed vaccines?

I’m not anti-vaccine by any means. But I’m also not fond of being experimented on with some new methods these vaccines use, or rushed speed at which they are being tested.

Not a matter of anti-vaccine, as one of being cautious.

I don’t buy a car in the first model year. Not even 2nd to be honest. I’d rather they work the kinks out.

I don’t update my OS in the first 30 days, if not longer now. Heard enough stories over my years.

I (mostly) let the ladies go first too!

And yet, I bet you kids won’t be allowed in school without it. Or people in the workplace or Amazon warhorses either.

What’s going to happen? Monetary incentives probably…IF you get vaccinated. Right? Like that Q107 commercial of old for that lab that would pay you to test good knows what on you. “could be placebo!”

#46 OK, Doomer on 07.29.20 at 4:55 pm

“The extension will be granted only to those who are in financial difficulty, find it impossible to make mortgage payments, and can prove it. Those who cannot establish hardship will be expected to resume payments, or to sell their real estate. ”

This makes no sense; if you’re an irredeemable financial basket case the government will help you out, but if you have some assets you the pressure is on to sell.

Wait, that does make sense, Bombardier, Air Canada… ok… got it!

I guess T2 has done the math and knows who’s going to vote for him. Those people get help.

Nobody forced people to buy houses they could not actually afford. – Garth

#47 BillyBob on 07.29.20 at 4:55 pm

#20 it never ceases to amaze me on 07.29.20 at 3:40 pm
deadbeats who overpaid for real estate and now that they can’t pay, need subsidies and deferrals and support from the government just to stay afloat. only because central banks kept rates abnormally low for .. oh, i don’t know, 20 years?

how’s that different from zombie companies that need bailouts in order to operate, or are able to repay the interest on their debts but not repay the principal. only because,… again, central banks made borrowing easy, free money after 2000, after 2008, and now, hey, they’re just printing money and buying corporate bonds.. solution to printing too much money, is to print some more.. wow!

you’re OK with the FED printing money to save deadbeat zombie companies… but individuals? up the creek without a paddle. screw them..

==================================================

Companies employee millions of people and produce goods and services that are pretty useful for, y’know, living.

People are welcome to participate in the success or failure of most companies by investing in them.

Deadbeat house-horniness doesn’t really compare.

Try not to let your class envy give you an ulcer.

#48 BillyBob on 07.29.20 at 4:59 pm

Speaking of codswallop, a underrated word that should very much come back in vogue, looks like Russia is gonna roll the dice:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/28/europe/russia-coronavirus-vaccine-approval-intl/index.html

Now does this mean the resident “it’s only the flu” tough guys will head over to there get a shot right away? Or is the whole Covid thing so much a hoax that you won’t bother?

So confusing.

#49 cramar on 07.29.20 at 5:04 pm

#40 Dolce Vita on 07.29.20 at 4:24 pm

Agree Garth, this will drag on for a year at least even with a vaccine. It will take a long time to vaccinate the Planet, a long time…and according to Leger:

“70% of *Canadians and 60% of Americans intend to get the COVID-19 vaccine when it becomes available.”

————

Problem is what is the threshold for herd immunity? With measles, 95% of the population must be vaccinated to stop the virus. With other viruses, it can be as low as 40%. With COVID-19 being so transmittable, maybe 80%?? If so, the U.S. will never rid itself of the virus since a certain percentage of the population thinks vaccinations are a plot and will never do so.

https://www.healthline.com/health/herd-immunity#stats

#50 Brett in Calgary on 07.29.20 at 5:07 pm

For a reasonable perspective on COVID-19 try listening to Dr. David Katz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8jXxRNkZnE

Five minutes of time well spent.

#51 zantaclauzz on 07.29.20 at 5:12 pm

Did you think it would take this long?

Sadly, back in March (I wish it was earlier), I came to understand that this was going to be a very long period of tragedy and increasing hopelessness. Very little since then has changed my outlook for this World. This outlook had nothing to do with the thought that the virus itself would kill millions of Canadians; it had to do with an understanding of how fragile our civilization really is. As a society, we really can’t deal with this virus for very long and expect to maintain the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed. People’s lifestyle necessarily will diminish and this will just increase suffering. Health care will not be able to cope soon. People will be hungry and homeless. Eventually, crime will go up and police will not be able to effectively control it, except for the rich.

I am truly saddened to say this, but it must be mentioned that many people did not “think” it likely that society would be back on track at this point. I do not know the future, but reasonable people can and have made educated predictions which are fairly disturbing.

It is not reasonable to say the equivalent of, “Who could have guessed it would be so bad?” Obviously, many could have guessed. This will get a lot worse before it gets better.

#52 Howard on 07.29.20 at 5:22 pm

mortgage deadbeats

——————————

Deadbeats.

Thank you for finally using the highly technical term I’ve been using for months to describe these freeloaders.

#53 Sail Away on 07.29.20 at 5:27 pm

#45 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 4:54 pm
Re: Vaccine

Honestly, who’s rolling up their sleeve for these rushed vaccines?

I’m not anti-vaccine by any means. But I’m also not fond of being experimented on with some new methods these vaccines use, or rushed speed at which they are being tested.

————–

Likewise. I consider the Corvid itself to be an effective vaccine and will allow natural processes to occur.

#54 TurnerNation on 07.29.20 at 5:27 pm

TDot Rental bloodbath. I re-did the search, surely it was stuck on old numbers? No.
Searching for $1400+ range.
This is only MLS. Add to it Kijiji, Craigslist and ViewIt.ca inventory.

https://tinyurl.com/y45xzegn

#55 joblo on 07.29.20 at 5:28 pm

Kanada’s in for an epic shirtstorm.
Hello lower standard of living.
Goodbye social programs

#56 JSS on 07.29.20 at 5:37 pm

I think REITS like Riocan, and the etf fund XRE, is a really good deal for the long term. Look at the cash they’re throwing off monthly.

XRE: 6.2% yield, monthly distribution, diversified among ten major reits comprising of 70% of the fund

Riocan: 9.6% yield, monthly distribution, collected 85% of rent in July compared to 73% in April, diversifying into apartments too. Retail tenants like Canadian Tire, Loblaws, Cineplex, Metro, Walmart

#57 Piano_Man87 on 07.29.20 at 5:41 pm

The only way we can open up the economy entirely is with required mask wearing when out in public.

How much longer are we going to drag our heels for?

#58 Howard on 07.29.20 at 5:44 pm

#12 Crazy Times on 07.29.20 at 3:11 pm
I’m not sure what’s happening, but houses are flying off the shelf’s everywhere. Condos swooped up after just being purchased. Rentals, what rentals – there is no vacancy anywhere and the price for rent crazy! One bedrooms going for 2 grand a month.

What gives?

People not paying their rent or mortgages but a person can’t find a place to buy or rent. People supposedly loosing their jobs but the real estate and rental market is on fire.

————————————–

Where are you? Toronto’s rental vacancy rate is at multi-year highs and rents have fallen to 2016/7 levels. You can now find a newer junior 1-bdrm downtown for $1800/month easily.

#59 Dogman01 on 07.29.20 at 5:55 pm

Not sure if you saw this, more laying the foundations for a wealth/real estate tax.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/the-dream-will-become-a-nightmare-siddall-says-on-wealth-inequality-151501163.html

#60 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 5:57 pm

#54 TurnerNation

Elaborate please with some context if you don’t mind. I’m curious about rental market.

$1400 starting, but quality is poor. Cap at $1800 and you get 1000 listings only, 1 bdrm mostly. Seems reasonable.

Is that a lot of units?

$1800-$2000 seem juicy – 2000 listings in that price range.

#61 Mike in Airdrie on 07.29.20 at 5:58 pm

“Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia….”

Any chance we can ditch two for the price of one?

#62 Shaun on 07.29.20 at 5:59 pm

Not even Red Green has enough duct tape to hold this dept ridden overinflated house market together

#63 ovidet on 07.29.20 at 6:00 pm

Masks now mandatory in Condos and apartments buildings. About time, they should have done that in March and it would have saved a lot of people from dying unnecessarily due to high density transfer. Especially in elevators and corridors.

Please share what percentage of COVID deaths were in apartment buildings and/or condos.

#64 Reximus on 07.29.20 at 6:02 pm

I read a National Bank memo that estimates that of all of the (15% or so) of mortgages that got deferrals, 95% can and will resume payments.

Commercial landlord borrowers on the other hand…

#65 The real Kip (Ret) on 07.29.20 at 6:12 pm

“Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.”

You mean Prime Minister Chrystia no?

#66 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.29.20 at 6:13 pm

#164 Sail Away on 07.29.20 at 2:33 pm
#158 Re-Cowtown on 07.29.20 at 1:49 pm

Re: Tesla

I must be missing something but it bothers me that having math skills, business experience and accounting skills somehow disqualifies me from seeing Musk’s masterplan.

—————–

Genius can be incomprehensible. Elon is 10 steps ahead at all times.
——————-
Sure, right over the cliff.

#67 The West on 07.29.20 at 6:13 pm

Freeland wears the pants and everyone knows it.

Imagine, a Liberal government, squandering the money of the tax payers. It’s unreal how eastern Canada has just become “used” to this.

I read an article yesterday that ‘berta has slid into the “have not” category on the welfare charts of our new communist Utopia out of Ottawa. All that money they stole from The West for decades and decades and decades because, you know, its what Canadians do….and how have you improved yourself over there? Built something with that theft?

…this country needs to disintegrate…

#68 Reximus on 07.29.20 at 6:19 pm

an actual fact: Toronto had fewer new covid cases yesterday than the Miami Marlins

#69 under the radar on 07.29.20 at 6:25 pm

Problem borrowers see the writing on the wall and are now starting to sell into a sellers market before the tide goes out. To some extent , that is evident in the 416 condo market. Ultra low rates postpones the great reckoning.

#70 earthboundmisfit on 07.29.20 at 6:29 pm

Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland has a much nicer ring to it.

#71 Flop... on 07.29.20 at 6:37 pm

“Australia may give us a clue. That, too, is a land of unfettered real estate lust and widespread house horniness. Property speculation is a national pastime, and politicians have shamelessly pandered to it. As a result, big Aussie cities have (like Toronto and Vancouver) insane housing prices and an economy way, way, way too dependent on citizens flogging houses to each other. (The Australian GDP is just a little smaller than ours and 15% of it is real estate-driven. Yeah, like us.)

We have 37 million people. They have 25 million. We both have 800,000 people not paying their home loans. And everybody’s worried.

Like ours, the Aussie government facilitated a six-month mortgage deferral period, and in recent days this has been extended by another four. But it is not automatic. The extension will be granted only to those who are in financial difficulty, find it impossible to make mortgage payments, and can prove it. Those who cannot establish hardship will be expected to resume payments, or to sell their real estate. As for the others: “Customers will be expected to work with their bank, during this extra time, to find the best solution for them,” says the Australian Banking Association. “It is in their interest to repay debt sooner.”-Thor Turner.

////////////

Hey Big Boy, what am I supposed to write about now?

Do you want me to be a braggart like the others?

Worked hard in a extremely hot house today.

Nothing to brag about.

Somebody has to keep it real…

M46BC

#72 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 6:37 pm

#17 cramar

By the way…in my view…and keep in mind I don’t know enough about Shopify…but to me…they smell a bit more like GroupOn rather than Amazon.

I don’t think it’s valid to compare them to Amazon. Sure, the marketplace component of Amazon makes some sense here to compare, but not Amazon. Maybe a blend of marketplace and GoDaddy?

#73 Steven Rowlandson on 07.29.20 at 6:46 pm

Now I know why Deagle.com predicts a 26% drop in Canada’s population by 2025. Old age, low birth rate and no future for young Canadians resulting in migration.

#74 MF on 07.29.20 at 6:47 pm

The West on 07.29.20 at

Utterly despicable comment. Why Garth allows this type of crap is beyond me.

MF

Fair comment. – Garth

#75 Ronaldo on 07.29.20 at 6:48 pm

Schools may or may not reopen in September, depending on where you are. Some will be in shifts. There’s big doubt it can even work, with kids in masks, six feet apart. A few sniffles and the place will be an evac zone.
——————————————————————
Oh yes, come flu season all hell is going to break loose. Will they be giving us the daily morning tally on the number of cases and deaths as they are now? How they going to determine what is Covid and just the regular flu? It’s going to be a friggin gong show. I don’t blame my son for applying to home school his 10 year old daughter. Things are going to get really crazy. Probably crazier than what is going on south of us right now. A world gone nutso.

#76 Drinking on 07.29.20 at 6:51 pm

#22 Felix

You may have a point. When I think of a useless typical Feline cats the first thing that jumps out at me are people like T2, Morneau,Kielburgers, not sure why, it just jumps out at me; sorta like a useless cat running away from a mouse; hmm, thanks for the heads up!

#77 Blobby on 07.29.20 at 6:53 pm

I have investments, i have money (not a lot – circa $500k)

But I rent.

Not sure on laws in canada, can i be evicted if my landlord is forced to sell (OR decides to due to falling prices?)

#78 Linda on 07.29.20 at 6:56 pm

Can the government force banks to keep on granting extensions of mortgage holidays? If someone has to prove they can’t service their mortgage (resume payments) due to financial hardship, would not the most likely outcome be the bank demand the property be sold? They aren’t in the business of providing welfare to clients; their business is to ensure they get a ROI & keep their balance sheet firmly on the profit side. At some point they are going to pull the plug, no matter how sorry the tale.

#79 John on 07.29.20 at 6:56 pm

It’s really difficult to have sympathy for people who are reckless and buy what they cannot afford. I hope tax payers’ money will not be used to pay for their reckless decisions.

#80 Nonplused on 07.29.20 at 6:59 pm

Don’t forget the eviction moratorium for the “Keep your rent” crowd has to expire at some point as well.

This mess is going to take a long, long time to sort out.

I bet Enbridge is pretty glad at this point that they never got to build Keystone 2. Word is that even the oil trains have stopped and are just parked about. There is no demand. Well there is some demand but it is off considerably. SAGD projects are shut in. The layoffs continue. And the results coming in from the shale oil patch indicated a complete disaster is in the works.

Then we have Nov. 3. I don’t know if the riots will have calmed down by then but I doubt it. With the bars and movie theaters all closed rioting has become a form of entertainment. What’s going to happen if Antifa blockades all the polling stations? Or worse sets them on fire? Sooner or later someone is going to get killed by the police. So far the rioters are only killing each other but at some point something is going to happen. And no matter who wins the election half the country is not going to accept the results.

Nobody is really talking about it in the press but my understanding from talking to people in retail is that all sorts of supply chain problems are starting to rear their ugly heads, not only in food but hard goods as well. Luckily nobody is buying anything except on Amazon. I think the brick and mortar retail industry is going to take a long time to recover, if it ever does. Therefore an apocalypse in the commercial real estate space seems all but inevitable. There were signs of stress before covid but now things look really bleak.

So no, things will not be back to normal come Jan. 1. Not even close. It is going to be a long, cold winter.

#81 Trojan House on 07.29.20 at 7:00 pm

Trying to hide from the virus (any virus really) is like having students hide under their desks during a nuclear bomb attack – it ain’t going to make one iota of a difference so why is the government so worried about it when we know for a fact that if children get it, the likelihood of them dying is 0.001%. Sorry, forgot, we gotta protect grandma from getting it. Why wait until 2 weeks into September? Shut everything down again now!

#82 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 7:02 pm

Fair comment. – Garth

If the country disintegrated, what would that do for gold?

:-)

#83 Ronaldo on 07.29.20 at 7:04 pm

#11 catzndogz on 07.29.20 at 3:06 pm
Buy smaller houses, people. Less cost up front, less cost to maintain. And you won’t have as much room to accumulate cr*p. And your kids won’t have room to bounce back to.
—————————————————————
Very good advice but that is not the Canadian way.

#84 Idiocy on 07.29.20 at 7:15 pm

to Faron;

Your misinterpretations, hostility, ad hominems and suggestions to “shove it” speak of the general vileness of your mind. You write like a triggered SJW.

Do a little introspection and maybe you’ll come up with a reason that you post / rant as much and at such length as you do on this blog.

But I doubt it.

Oh, and do reply at whatever length and with whatever bile you need to fling to soothe that savagery lurking within.

I find it hilarious that you waste all that time and effort on a stranger on the internet.
Too funny dude.

#85 Nonplused on 07.29.20 at 7:27 pm

#6 Leftover on 07.29.20 at 2:52 pm

“All this at a time when even mainstream pundits are recommending an end to the capital gain exemption on principal residences:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-it-wont-be-popular-but-we-should-scrap-the-homeowner-tax-break/

————————

I am not saying they won’t try it but it is a terrible idea. Treating primary residences as a asset class would imply a whole host of other tax treatments, including deductions for interest expenses, maintenance, depreciation for cars and appliances (and computers), operating expenses, etc. They probably wouldn’t net a dime.

Also what will happen if the horse has already left the barn? The real estate market in Canada could very well enter a prolonged period of stagnant prices as it already has in Alberta. There would be nothing to tax. And if the market actually fell, by rights people should be able to deduct the loss.

The effect on the market would go beyond this as it would become prohibitively expensive for people to move. Remember, a house is not money and most people when selling one buy another. If they have to send a good portion of the proceeds off to Ottawa every time they move many people will chose to stay put. Many other people will chose to rent rather than get in the crosshairs of yet another tax. It would take some time, but the market would migrate towards one where most houses are held through corporations that do not sell them and everyone rents.

Doesn’t mean they won’t do it though. The first rule of being an elected official is that you do not have a degree in math, science, economics, business, finance, or logic. It’s a reverse SAT kind of thing. As the old saying goes, “The first rule of economics is that there is no such thing as a free lunch. The first rule of politics is to ignore the first rule of economics.”

#86 Nonplused on 07.29.20 at 7:34 pm

#19 Doug t on 07.29.20 at 3:37 pm
Debt Jubilee anyone?

———————

In a historic debt jubilee the land is returned to the lender, not the borrower. That is not a lot different than how foreclosure works, just that everyone does it all at once.

#87 joblo on 07.29.20 at 7:45 pm

#67 The West on 07.29.20 at 6:13 pm
“…this country needs to disintegrate…”

Perhaps Confederation needs to?
Provinces need more control less Fed.

#88 Darryl on 07.29.20 at 7:45 pm

Should it not be Prime minister Chrystia ?
For a few months?

#89 baloney Sandwitch on 07.29.20 at 7:47 pm

“Finance Minister Chrystia” Funny. More likely PM.
Garth, would you take the job for the love of your country if T2 begged you? (imagine an alternate reality).

#90 Attrition on 07.29.20 at 7:56 pm

I guess there’s enough chum in the comments section for me to stop by and take a quick chomp…and that chomp has to do with #$%[email protected]# masks.

There is ‘science’ that shows they help, and there is ‘science’ that shows they don’t.

There is also evidence that shows they make viral transmission worse, since–much like flossing (remember about 2 years ago, the USDA proclaimed flossing pointless because almost no one does it correctly–use a rubber tip to scrape the gums instead–you’re welcome)–no one knows how to wear them, how to stop touching them, and how to dispose of them properly.

Folks seem to be forgetting we have eye holes and ear holes, and those holes are connected to our cake holes. Viruses can enter through any warm moist hole you have available.

I’m not sure if pretending this isn’t true is somehow comforting to the fearful, but I don’t get it. You can catch the virus with a mask. You can spread it with a mask.

To make mandatory something that is ineffective, risky, not free, and a source of contaminated litter won’t be a solution to any woes.

Here’s the solution: wash your hands, if sick stay home, if at risk stay home, and if interested in making anything mandatory based on choosing to believe half of the science, take a hike.

A long one.

#91 Rico on 07.29.20 at 8:08 pm

The West thinks that BC wants anything to do with Alberta (and maybe Saskatchewan). We don’t.

#92 Bezengy on 07.29.20 at 8:09 pm

Who are the liberals that are publicly denouncing the actions of Trudeau and Morneau? I haven’t heard a single complaint from one of them. I recall they did once have a couple of well principled members in their ranks who might have objected to this unethical behaviour, but they’ve been removed from the party. How are we better off with another liberal taking over for Bill if they share the values?

#93 Newcomer on 07.29.20 at 8:09 pm

My office landlord in Seattle has just announced that they are going out of business and locking the doors at the end of August because too many clients closed up shop or just failed to pay rent. I’m guessing a quite number of the clients that are left will close rather than try to find new digs in the current environment. The size of this thing should not be underestimated.

#94 Faron on 07.29.20 at 8:12 pm

#84 Idiocy on 07.29.20 at 7:15 pm

Okay. $100 bet you thought about that retort all day…

Enjoy your evening

#95 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.29.20 at 8:13 pm

Wow. Way too many paranoid and irrational comments in the blog today. This country is doomed.

#96 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.29.20 at 8:16 pm

@#90 Attrition on 07.29.20 at 7:56 pm:

One of the few rational comments I’ve read today.

#97 Flop... on 07.29.20 at 8:17 pm

Fair suck of the sauce bottle.

Historic happenings.

Here is another couple of quotes showing what is currently evolving under the Southern Cross…

M46BC

“Australia’s prices of goods and services have plunged at the most drastic rate since records began in the 1940s, with the consumer price index – which measures inflation – dropping by 1.9 per cent in the second quarter alone”

——————————————

“Some tenants could benefit after Melbourne recorded its biggest quarterly drop in rent prices on record.

But there’s little silver lining for renters working in coronavirus impacted industries, advocates say.

Rent across the city slumped 1.1 per cent in the June-ending quarter, the Australian Bureau of Statistics found.

It marked the biggest decline since ABS started recording the metric in 1972.”

#98 Sail Away on 07.29.20 at 8:23 pm

#90 Attrition on 07.29.20 at 7:56 pm

Folks seem to be forgetting we have eye holes and ear holes, and those holes are connected to our cake holes. Viruses can enter through any warm moist hole you have available.

————–

As Kurt Vonnegut said, “Nothing loves a mucous membrane like a venereal disease”

…or the Corvid, I guess.

#99 Sail Away on 07.29.20 at 8:40 pm

#80 Nonplused on 07.29.20 at 6:59 pm

Then we have Nov. 3. I don’t know if the riots will have calmed down by then but I doubt it. With the bars and movie theaters all closed rioting has become a form of entertainment. What’s going to happen if Antifa blockades all the polling stations? Or worse sets them on fire?

—————

A couple of discussion points:

First, antifa is a tiny minority that’s making a lot of noise. They’ve been given almost a free pass so far. If, however, they decided to try disrupting federal law, the gloves would come off.

Second, the police are nice and try to be diplomatic. The army isn’t and doesn’t. If it became a federal matter and the army got involved, antifa would be done and gone. A surgical strike could take out every last member at exactly the same time nationwide. Police actions don’t give the slightest inkling.

#100 WAKEUP on 07.29.20 at 8:44 pm

The way I see things unfolding is.
Cerb 2.0 will continue, the re elect Trudeau ace in the hole.
The markets will go down.
Gold will continue to strengthen.

A vaccines iffy since ones never been developed for a upper respiratory or a Corona Virus.
Perhaps they develop something that addresses some of the symptoms, with long term ramifications unknown.

Then the market goes up again until there’s more bad news, bad news like nasty symptoms appearing in people who were test vaccine dummies.

Then the market goes back down once things truly resonate within the financials with a depression to follow.

And then enter a mandatory digital currency enabling the system to globally track all financial exchanges, precious metals…

Nothings changed and no where to hide.

#101 KNOW IT ALL on 07.29.20 at 8:45 pm

DELETED

#102 rknusa on 07.29.20 at 8:45 pm

re: The missed payments are being capitalized – added to the principal, then amortized. Borrowers owe more. Monthly payments will rise.

they are even talking about amortizing their debt over a longer term 40 year terms here we come

these people are receiving cerb, paying no mortgage payments meanwhile their houses increase in value and people who have money are expected to pay more for a house

thank you Daddy Trudeau

#103 DON on 07.29.20 at 8:47 pm

@ Nonplused

A friend mentioned that Lordco autoparts is running out of certain parts…you may have to order and wait.

@ the Jag
thanks for the links I agree with your BC interior comments and the Island (however, for the most part the Islanders are more laid back).

#104 DON on 07.29.20 at 8:50 pm

@ crowded
lug nuts a singular case perhaps…but for FFS people need to grow up.

cheers.

#105 DON on 07.29.20 at 8:59 pm

On the subject of Aussie land…consumer spending that ‘came back strong’ is now teetering as per the waffling bloomberg news. Bloomberg news seems to have an attention deficit disorder lately. hell tje whole media is disappointing.

On a lighter note…was watching a old 1940s movie and a women stated ‘everyone knows that a man doesn’t much about anything until he is 42’

I wonder if that was widely considered to be the case.

#106 MF on 07.29.20 at 9:04 pm

Fair comment. – Garth

Sure fair as in doesn’t breach the rules. Still bull poop in nature though.

MF

#107 SoggyShorts on 07.29.20 at 9:08 pm

#45 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 4:54 pm
Re: Vaccine

Honestly, who’s rolling up their sleeve for these rushed vaccines?

***********************
Here’s the problem with that:

Let’s say we need 70% to reach herd immunity, but 40% of people want to wait a few(or more?) years to check for possible side effects.

How does that work?

#108 MF on 07.29.20 at 9:08 pm

90 Attrition on 07.29.20 at 7:56 pm

What confusion? It’s actually crystal clear.

The masks reduce transmission 1

And, I guess you could argue that this is more important, but 2 they also calm people. You need calm people who are comfortable to leave their homes and buy things to keep the country and economy functioning.

So masks help with both biology and psychology.

Again not hard to understand.

MF

#109 Ronaldo on 07.29.20 at 9:29 pm

#90 Attrition

To make mandatory something that is ineffective, risky, not free, and a source of contaminated litter won’t be a solution to any woes.
—————————————————————-
Does not matter. Governments are all about ‘appearance’.

#110 PBrasseur on 07.29.20 at 9:33 pm

Freeland is not qualified for that job. I know these days image is everything but there’s a limit.

#111 habitt on 07.29.20 at 9:49 pm

#74 MF Well said and thanks. You as well Mr.T

#112 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 07.29.20 at 9:51 pm

#99 Sail Away on 07.29.20 at 8:40 pm
#80 Nonplused on 07.29.20 at 6:59 pm

Then we have Nov. 3. I don’t know if the riots will have calmed down by then but I doubt it. With the bars and movie theaters all closed rioting has become a form of entertainment. What’s going to happen if Antifa blockades all the polling stations? Or worse sets them on fire?

—————

A couple of discussion points:

First, antifa is a tiny minority that’s making a lot of noise. They’ve been given almost a free pass so far. If, however, they decided to try disrupting federal law, the gloves would come off.

Second, the police are nice and try to be diplomatic. The army isn’t and doesn’t. If it became a federal matter and the army got involved, antifa would be done and gone. A surgical strike could take out every last member at exactly the same time nationwide. Police actions don’t give the slightest inkling.

/////////////

Remember the Great Central American Caravan scare at the southern border in 2018? Ever hear about it again, after the mid-terms?

Lather, rinse, repeat.

#113 S.O on 07.29.20 at 9:51 pm

Workers with higher paying jobs were able to work through the shutdown only because they had existing projects and contracts too keep them going. But now I’m hearing that allot of them are struggling too find new contracts and are starting to lay more people off. This has happened at my friend engineering firm. When the money stops and the economy starts too fully open up, thats when we will see the real damage.

#114 Km on 07.29.20 at 9:52 pm

So many people seem to think the government should help them with their financial problems. If you own assets you sell them to pay your bills. The government is not your parent, they are their to use your taxes to run the country not be your mummy or daddy and help you when you spend too much on things you don’t need. Took deferrals you shouldn’t have ? Sorry it will be remembered. Took Cerb you didn’t need? Hope you enjoy really high taxes for the next decade. Put some big boy/girl pants on and mange your own life , other peoples taxes are not meant to bail you out of bad choices.

#115 Believer on 07.29.20 at 9:56 pm

#trudeau will extend CERB for 12 months and increase the payment to $4000/month

#116 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 07.29.20 at 9:56 pm

#95 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.29.20 at 8:13 pm
Wow. Way too many paranoid and irrational comments in the blog today. This country is doomed.

///////////

Whoosh! Maybe read that last line again.

#117 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 9:58 pm

#108 MF

I’m not sure they are calming. Personally, I think they are a visual reminder to keep stressing.

#118 Beetman on 07.29.20 at 10:15 pm

Bought a hot tub today. Was feeling kinda bad that all these cerbians were buying tubs with my tax dollars and gloating about it. Retired after 45 years and am hoping to collect my cpp at 70 and hopefully wife and me can enjoy the tub for a bunch of years.

#119 Reality is stark on 07.29.20 at 10:19 pm

One thing you can take to the bank is that bankers want their money.
Right now housing is gold and the bank wants it’s gold back.
This deferral thing is making them all sick and keeps them from sleeping at night. They will do everything in their power to get you to sell if you were one of the folks deferring.
They’ll be putting tremendous pressure on the government to stop this deferral nonsense.
The game is on. Don’t expect the banks to be friendly. Already I see a change in tone from banking staff.
Only A clients are about to get respect, everyone else can go to hell.
A flat housing market and tons of debt doesn’t bode well for you if you are expecting a smile at the bank.
Those days are gone.

#120 j.morris on 07.29.20 at 10:22 pm

CF for PM ..oh come on..like her boss,too much of a yes person..What this country needs is a “NO”person.. Jason Kenney fits the bill..I can smell the oil gushing now..

#121 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 10:26 pm

Are you seeing the CBC news tonight?

The regular Flu appears to have basically disappeared from the planet statistically in March in Canada. In Australia only 36 people have died of the flu.

#122 DON on 07.29.20 at 10:35 pm

Garth

You had me googling like mad to see a change in Finance Ministers…which would be the most appropriate thing to do.

Not sure how the governing party can justify this especially in a minority situation. Then again the NDP are in no financial position…the conservatives rudderless and no one to my knowledge is calling for a non confidence vote.

Is no one paying attention due to the virus, summer holidays…easy cash. The early stages of idiocracy.

Politicians of the past resigned for less.

What exactly is Mr. Trudeau ‘sorry’ for?

Ethically…he should be sorry for a wide range of things. And the WE brothers….geezus.

The rest of Canada needs to seperate from Ottawa until they get there act together.

#123 DON on 07.29.20 at 10:40 pm

last post corrections.

‘their’ not ‘there’

The grammar police might explode

@ Smoking Man

Haven’t seen you posting in a while…how are you doing?

#124 Eco Capitalist on 07.29.20 at 10:49 pm

@#11 catzndogz

Buy smaller houses, people.

I’d love to, but they haven’t made those in a very long time now. I believe wartime bungalows were the last attempt at small detached housing. Semis and townhomes have no appeal (common walls? Bah!).

#125 TurnerNation on 07.29.20 at 10:57 pm

Overheard, partially: The rules of CV are:

If you do anything fun – beach, bars, party – you will get CV. The very next day. The test results will be published live in the media. Much Tsk-Tsking will then go on; government will pass new laws.

If you do something boring: renew divers licence, go to church, go to a Big Box store. This will not generate numbers for the telescreen.

See in the New System all fun is banned by edict. Specifically public dancing, singing. Traditional weddings and funerals.
People must walk a distance behind another. Regular rituals of purification – using Purell – must be performed, daily. Else the omnipresent but unseen CV gods might smite you. You unclean animal.
Faces must be covered in reverance to these gods. A hushed awe. Soft black masks seem the norm.
This is the new global religion.

Where I am going with this. CanCon fans of the late 80s/early 90s will remember Alannah Myles’ hit song Black Velvet:

“Black velvet and that little boy smile
Black velvet in that slow southern style
A new religion that’ll bring you to your knees
Black velvet if you please”

#126 Attrition on 07.29.20 at 11:17 pm


#109 Ronaldo on 07.29.20 at 9:29 pm

#90 Attrition

To make mandatory something that is ineffective, risky, not free, and a source of contaminated litter won’t be a solution to any woes.
—————————————————————-
Does not matter. Governments are all about ‘appearance’.

Ah, so true. Everything is about appearances.


#108 MF on 07.29.20 at 9:08 pm
What confusion? It’s actually crystal clear.
The masks reduce transmission…and they also calm people. Again not hard to understand.

Maybe hard to understand for you, because, again, it depends on what science you choose to believe.

And masks on frightened, ignorant people don’t calm me, they enrage me (and others I know) because they’re symbols of ignorance and government authoritarianism unquestioningly accepted by those who would be free.

They also introduce once of the most unappealing elements of social media in the real world: anonymity.

Wearing a mask mimics the online anonymity the Internet allows. People then make the mistake of thinking they’re in positions of wisdom and power when they should be lurking in some persons basement, staring at a glowing flat-screen and hiding from the wolves.

Thus, when presented with a Post-Renaissance Man like myself, or anyone who sees right through the public mask for what it is, they think they can act like they’re online (brave and mouthy, usually) when in fact they aren’t.

And then the job of having to teach them, once again, to keep uninformed opinions to themselves when amongst actual wolves, falls on me. And it’s tiring, thankless work as Garth knows well. Sigh.

Or, in fewer words: your argument for masks fails and falls flat.

#127 slick on 07.29.20 at 11:36 pm

this WE thing is sickening.
Those arrogant lil twats testifying yesterday need a trip to the woodshed.
I’m thinking this will end with a sacrificial lamb, my guess is Morneau. That’s what happened with the SNC scandal.
Butts fell on his sword, but it was only a temporary flesh wound. Trudeau also lost some questionable cabinet ministers that quit more for their own benefit, than any moral stand.
Chretien let Sheila take the fall for the GST reneging.
These bigshots look at the camera, lie to your face and have no concept of consequences. Never have, never will. This country voted them back in, and we are getting what we deserve for doing so.
The real sad part is the roster we have to pick from.

#128 Pain and Glee on 07.29.20 at 11:37 pm

Mortgage defaults, say it ain’t so? How will I pay for my new tattoo’s that I put on my Visa? Government is bad.

And Hey? What about the 8 million on CERB? Will a Means Test be in the cards? The ones who can’t pay mortgages are collecting CERB. No CERB No Mortgage Pmt. Will CERBERS get turfed or Smurfed? There would have to be mass evictions because those many jobs vanished ain’t coming back. Is it Welfare Day for millions?

#129 fishman on 07.29.20 at 11:55 pm

#91 Rico: When the Conservatives got savaged under Kimmy, B.C. elected more Reformers than Alberta. The new leader of Wexit is a B.C. born farmer & Prince George MP for 18 years. Served a spell as Government House Leader under the Control Freak. Your a little presumptuous saying B.C. doesn’t want anything to do with the flatlanders. Have you ever been east of Hope?

#130 Steve French on 07.30.20 at 12:45 am

“Did you think it would take this long?”

Yes, I did, and I even told you as much, Sir Garth. A couple months ago i said “Finally you are grasping the seriousness of the situation”

But you just kept up your mantra of “epidemics are temporary”

This has got a long way to run still, and I hate to say it but unfortunately a miracle cure may never be developed.

People need to start to grasp that things in the world don’t always turn out the way they hope it will, or according to best case or even good case scenarios.

I’m no doomsayer, but we should always keep in mind that negative scenarios are always possible.

#131 Koots on 07.30.20 at 12:54 am

F91 Rico on 07.29.20 at 8:08 pm

The West thinks that BC wants anything to do with Alberta (and maybe Saskatchewan). We don’t.

________

You must be from the lower mainland. Out here in the East Kootenays we love Albertans. Way more than we like Coasties.

In my opinion the AB\BC border should have been drawn along the Columbia River. Still could be though, most here would gladly vote it in. Self determination is a hot issue lately.

#132 45north on 07.30.20 at 12:57 am

The hammer came down mid-March. Now it’s August, almost. Yesterday Scotiabank says it  decided few, if any, workers would return to its gleaming, 68-storey Toronto head office tower at King & Bay Streets in 2020. In the spring. Perhaps. Google announced a few days ago its people are gone until next summer. It’s a long list of companies gathering.

The crisis is caused by Covid-19 – it’s a serious disease. Five months since the hammer came down, there is no vaccine and no treatment specific to the disease.

I saw the video of American Front Line Doctors on Capitol Hill on Facebook. They were talking about Hydroxy Choloquinine. They said according to their experience, it was an effective treatment against Covid 19. At one point there were 180,000 concurrent viewers but YouTube took it down!

They are real doctors. They have real experience. It’s looking like fraud. Its looking like there is an effective, safe and cheap drug to treat Covid-19 and it’s looking like evidence of its effectiveness is being suppressed. The doctors mentioned a paper published in the medical journal Lancet. The paper says Hydroxy Choloquinine is of no benefit in combatting the disease. The paper has now been retracted.

Now that’s a lot of contradictory material to wade through – doctors make a public presentation but Youtube takes it down; a paper against Hydroxy Choloquinine is published in a medical journal but the paper is retracted.

Of course I take notice of these contradictions because Covid-19 is a pressing national emergency. At a minimum, five months into the emergency there is no authoritative answer on an obvious treatment.

#133 Tim123 on 07.30.20 at 1:13 am

This means that bond holders of those mortgages will not get paid which means that their expected revenues will be dropping. Hmmmm, I think I better do some research on this because I smell some winning short positions in early 2021.

#134 Nonplused on 07.30.20 at 1:22 am

#99 Sail Away on 07.29.20 at 8:40 pm

“First, antifa is a tiny minority that’s making a lot of noise.”

——————

Well yes I agree they are but so far they have done a lot of damage and keep blocking the roads. When you have a protest going on, peaceful or otherwise, it’s hard to get the fire trucks in when someone sets a building on fire.

The whole thing seems a lot more coordinated than the MSM is leading us to believe. For example when the “Portland moms” showed up to protect the protesters from the police, how did they all know to wear black motorcycle helmets, safety goggles, and gas masks? I think the police were glad to have them anyway because a line that protects the protestors from the police also keeps the protestors away from the police, reducing the potential for violence. And who are these dudes showing up with leaf blowers to blow the smoke and tear gas back at the police so the rioters can continue to launch fireworks and shine lasers at the police? The tactics are evolving and they seem coordinated.

#135 Nonplused on 07.30.20 at 1:34 am

#91 Rico on 07.29.20 at 8:08 pm
The West thinks that BC wants anything to do with Alberta (and maybe Saskatchewan). We don’t.

——————–

You mean Vancouver and Victoria, not BC. Just look at the electoral map. Nearly every riding east of the Coast mountains voted blue. Fact is the government in Victoria doesn’t look any more favorably on the interior plateau than Ottawa looks at anything west of Ontario. By population, BC is red or orange, but that’s only because the population of Vancouver is so large. Go 2 hours east and everyone knows their economic future is tied to that of Alberta. This is solidly true by the time you get to Kamloops.

#136 the Jaguar on 07.30.20 at 2:05 am

News Round Up….( risking being banned for off topic posting, but hoping to score points with Garth for not bringing up Tesla or Elon the Musk).

Oprah Winfrey to host a new talk show series aimed at unity versus division. A bit tardy given the looting and burning extravaganza in the rear view mirror me thinks, and appears the first episodes will be an examination exposing systemic white racism. That old chestnut. The beatings will continue until the morale improves, I suppose. Maybe they’ll have the courage to have Jamal Jivani or Larry Elder on as a guest, but it’s doubtful. Sigh.

Morneau is being offered up as some kind of sacrificial lamb to save someone else’s ass. It’s in all the funny papers. Poor thing. At least he has all that money and a lifetime supply of Deep Dish Frozen Pizza to comfort him in these hard times.
Demonstrates the propensity of the Liberal Party to throw one of their own under the bus in order to distract from the real perps. JT and Katie T to testify manana, but where is that singular weasel Gerald Butts? Find him and drag his sorry ass up for the inquisition! He is too conveniently out of public view these days which is a sure sign of culpability, criminality and misconduct.
I like this Conservative guy Pierre Poilievre. He’s a real tiger. Takes no prisoners and won’t be dismissed. I love that quality in a person. I might lend him my riding crop. We need more of that from the opposition. More tigers please, and I don’t mean the paper variety.

I’ll end this tiresome post with a bit of hope and inspiration. The little helicopter NASA has named ‘Ingenuity’ is the cutest thing in captivity. I adore this little creature. I suppose Freud would say it has something to do with my deep partiality for ceiling fans versus central air. Not sure who will be flying the little bugger, but I might write a letter to NASA putting Billy Bob’s name forward.

#137 SoggyShorts on 07.30.20 at 2:06 am

#109 Ronaldo on 07.29.20 at 9:29 pm
#90 Attrition

To make mandatory something that is ineffective, risky, not free, and a source of contaminated litter won’t be a solution to any woes.
—————————————————————-
Does not matter. Governments are all about ‘appearance’.

******************
inefective? Nope. It’s at least somewhat effective.
risky? Not at all. That’s total BS.
not free? There are loads of places handing them out for free, and you can re-use cloth ones after washing.
litter? No, just don’t throw them on the ground.

Man the anti-mask/flatearther/antivax crowd is getting louder, but certainly not much smarter…

#138 Steven Rowlandson on 07.30.20 at 7:20 am

In the biblical 50th year Jubilee property out of towns and cities had to be bought back by the original owners or their families for the residual value that depreciated by 2% per year. Those properties that could not be redeemed were kept by the current owner. What the current owner was buying was the productive capacity of the land which most of the time was agricultural. This was ordained not by man but by God for everybody.
God did not intend for people to get rich on real estate or for people to be enslaved by debt or anything else.
God claims ownership of the Earth hence his supremacy of his person,laws and judgments. It is the doom of men that they forget this. Canada is based on the Supremacy of God and the rule of law. Think on that and make it so.

#139 YouKnowWho on 07.30.20 at 8:10 am

#124 TurnerNation

See in the New System all fun is banned by edict. Specifically public dancing, singing. Traditional weddings and funerals.

——

TN, Funerals?! Well, it does have fun as root.

Alannah Myles? So hot on that 1989 cover. Love is…what you want it to be! That’s the song!

#140 Dharma Bum on 07.30.20 at 8:13 am

Start building massive DEBTORS PRISONS.

Like they had in the 19th century.

It would be a new Canadian industry, providing lots of construction jobs and then ongoing work for thousands of people, like guards, wardens, administrators, kitchen staff, custodians, and other institutional employees.

It will solve the housing problem for all of the deadbeats that irresponsibly indebted themselves to buy houses that they couldn’t afford in the first place and now expect the banks to carry them indefinitely, while the government hands them welfare cheques.

Debtors Prison. Sounds like a win-win to me.

#141 Phylis on 07.30.20 at 8:16 am

#120 YouKnowWho on 07.29.20 at 10:26 pm
Are you seeing the CBC news tonight?
The regular Flu appears to have basically disappeared from the planet statistically in March in Canada. In Australia only 36 people have died of the flu.
———————
Yes, i was pondering how many other common colds have been eradicated in the meantime too…

#142 HurricaneJuan on 07.30.20 at 8:26 am

“Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then.”

LOL thanks for this Garth, made my day.

Cheers

#143 PBrasseur on 07.30.20 at 8:34 am

Cancellation is the tool of the weak.

#144 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.30.20 at 8:41 am

@#74 MF
“Utterly despicable comment.”

++++

The brutal truth is sometimes disconcerting.
Your request for censorship is even more despicable.
Back to your safe pace.

#145 James on 07.30.20 at 8:43 am

UGLY

Worst economic quarter in history.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/economy/us-economy-2020-second-quarter/index.html

#146 Joe Di Nenno on 07.30.20 at 8:46 am

I’m also sick of people overspending the last 20 years !!!
Time to pay up and let others who have been fiscally responsible for the last 20 be rewarded .
I don’t feel sorry for waitresses , bartenders , etc that have been doing very well for a long time . I chose to be a plumber , not because I enjoy the smell of ____. But I knew it was steady employment ,
And yeah when I’m walking into someone’s home or yours it’s a brownie and hour , with 2 min .
I love chocolate, dark and white , All Lives Matter !!

#147 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.30.20 at 8:46 am

@#93 Newcomer
“The size of this thing should not be underestimated.”

++++

Yep, we may be half way through the Covid …..but the economic ramifications of this are going to be ugly.
Years to crawl out of this mess.
Sell the expensive toys and hunker down.

#148 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.30.20 at 8:58 am

@#103 Don
“A friend mentioned that Lordco autoparts is running out of certain parts…you may have to order and wait.”

++++
Yep.

I order a fair bit of material out of the US.
Material that used to take 2 weeks……. is now 8 weeks.
I have had to delay jobs because of a lack of supplies.
Manufacturers closed for Covid outbreaks, trucking companies avoiding major cities due to BLM riots, lack of drivers, on and on and on.
I’ve double ordered material to get me to at least Dec.
It’s starting to trickle in now but unprecedented delays.

All will have major economic ramifications down the road.
2021 will not be pretty.
Return those shiny leased Audi’s.
Buy a beater.
Its just a car to get you from “A” to “B”.
Rather than the Rapid Transit Covid Cough Express.

#149 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.30.20 at 9:04 am

@#144 Joe the Italian Plumber
“I don’t feel sorry for waitresses , bartenders , etc that have been doing very well for a long time .”

+++

True, Lack of at least 3 months salary in savings ( 6 months is better) but the Covid shut down of their business is a bit of a “left field” event.
Totaly unexpected.
I watched a homeless person on TV last night complaining that it was their “right” to take over a public park ( needles, defecation, crimes) as the property tax paying neighbors across the street complained to Van City Clowncil.
She was covered in expensive tattoo’s and smoking a filtered cigarette……… money well spent………..

#150 willworkforpickles on 07.30.20 at 9:24 am

2nd quarter contraction GDP (US) now 4 times greater than worst quarter in the great recession – yet real estate prices continue to skyrocket in south central Ontario. Buying real estate now has transgressed beyond anything near normal to what could almost be considered a degenerate form of gambling. Buyers gambling against all odds, throwing caution to the wind in they will see prices inflate their way out of the red into future profit.

Don’t get too excited about US GDP stats. the bounce-back is dramatic. – Garth

#151 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 07.30.20 at 9:33 am

#125 Attrition on 07.29.20 at 11:17 pm

“Wearing a mask mimics the online anonymity the Internet allows.”

/////////////////

Ever hear the story of the idiot bank robber who rubbed lemon juice on his face in the belief that it would render him invisible to security cameras?

By the way, how many years did you serve for that little science fail?

#152 willworkforpickles on 07.30.20 at 9:34 am

Luv the photo….guess he forgot where he buried his bone a year ago.

#153 Keith in Rio on 07.30.20 at 9:38 am

“Well, let’s see what Finance Minister Chrystia has to say then”

LOL……wishful thinking. The LIBRANOS will not give up one of their own, no matter how guilty he/she turns out to be, nor who they are.

#154 willworkforpickles on 07.30.20 at 9:51 am

“Don’t get too excited about US GDP stats. the bounce-back is dramatic. – Garth”

The next 3 quarters could be just as bad or worse. Doesn’t look promising.

Hardly. – Garth

#155 willworkforpickles on 07.30.20 at 10:11 am

“Don’t get too excited about US GDP stats. the bounce-back is dramatic. – Garth”

The next 3 quarters could be just as bad or worse. Doesn’t look promising.

Hardly. – Garth
……………………………………………………………………………..

I can go along with the possibility there could be a small bounce in the 3rd qtr… but with another 2 months to go and the economy going off the rails again it won’t be a great end of Oct. report.

#156 Do we have all the facts on 07.30.20 at 10:12 am

When you look at the facts surrounding the Covid 19 virus in Canada the angst and fear it created and the economic consequences of this fear seem far more damaging than the actual virus.

Four million Canadians, or 10 % of our total population have now been tested for the Covid 19 virus. A significant portion of those tested prior to May 2020 had identified symptoms associated with a viral or bacterial infection. After May 2020 testing was extended to the general population although it remained weighted to the older age cohorts.

The results of testing well over 20% of the adult population of Canada was an infection rate of 2.8%. Expressed another way 97.2% of the Canadians tested for the Covid 19 virus had not been infected by ‘a pandemic so bad we had to cripple our economy to prove it’.

The Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) analyzed the data related to 101,000 Canadians who tested positive for the Covid 19 and determined that 98% of the 8,430 deaths attributed to the virus involved an individual 60 years of age or older.

Less than 10% of the Canadians who tested positive were admitted to a hospital and only 2%, or 2,106 individuals, required intensive care. Over 7,100 of the 8,430 deaths examined by the PHAC involved a resident of a long term care facility.

When you factor out the deaths of Canadians living in long term care facilities the mortality rate associated with the Covid 19 virus for the balance of the 3,850,000 citizens tested was in the range of O.035 of 1.0% or 3.5 deaths per 10,000 people.

The mortality rate related to the Covid 19 virus for Canadian citizens younger than 60 years of age was estimated by the PHAC at 12 deaths per million citizens.

What the facts tell us is that the Covid 19 virus infects less than 3 Canadians in 100, hospitalizes less than 3 Canadians in 1000, contributes to, or causes, the death of 3.5 Canadians in 10,000 not resident in a long term care facility and poses a risk of death to only 12 Canadians in 1,000,000 younger than 60 years of age.

At what point do our government officials decide that trying to prevent the spread of a virus that poses a minimum risk of death to the general population is inflicting far greater harm to Canadian citizens and the Canadian economy than the virus.

In 1933 President Roosevelt summed up public reaction to the Depression by stating:

‘The only thing we have to fear is fear itself,‘

Time to examine the wisdom in this statement!

#157 Toronto_CA on 07.30.20 at 10:28 am

#154 Do we have all the facts on 07.30.20 at 10:12 am

All of what you write is true. It should also be juxtaposed next to the fact that the government allows the populace to smoke, drink, and take recreational drugs — all of which have a much higher impact to public health that covid.

If we are so concerned with public health we are willing to spend hundred of billions of dollars and curb civil liberties and restrict people from hugging their parents and loved ones, why on earth are people allowed to smoke cigarettes and drink booze?

It’s all nuts and does not stand up to scrutiny.

#158 Don Guillermo on 07.30.20 at 10:38 am

#130 Koots on 07.30.20 at 12:54 am
F91 Rico on 07.29.20 at 8:08 pm

The West thinks that BC wants anything to do with Alberta (and maybe Saskatchewan). We don’t.

________

You must be from the lower mainland. Out here in the East Kootenays we love Albertans. Way more than we like Coasties.

In my opinion the AB\BC border should have been drawn along the Columbia River. Still could be though, most here would gladly vote it in. Self determination is a hot issue lately.
******************************************

Noooo, then West Trail and the smelter would be left behind!

#159 JB on 07.30.20 at 10:39 am

#125 Attrition on 07.29.20 at 11:17 pm

#109 Ronaldo on 07.29.20 at 9:29 pm

#90 Attrition
To make mandatory something that is ineffective, risky, not free, and a source of contaminated litter won’t be a solution to any woes.
—————————————————————-
Does not matter. Governments are all about ‘appearance’.

Ah, so true. Everything is about appearances.

#108 MF on 07.29.20 at 9:08 pm
What confusion? It’s actually crystal clear.
The masks reduce transmission…and they also calm people. Again not hard to understand.

Maybe hard to understand for you, because, again, it depends on what science you choose to believe.
And masks on frightened, ignorant people don’t calm me, they enrage me (and others I know) because they’re symbols of ignorance and government authoritarianism unquestioningly accepted by those who would be free.
They also introduce once of the most unappealing elements of social media in the real world: anonymity.
Wearing a mask mimics the online anonymity the Internet allows. People then make the mistake of thinking they’re in positions of wisdom and power when they should be lurking in some persons basement, staring at a glowing flat-screen and hiding from the wolves.
Thus, when presented with a Post-Renaissance Man like myself, or anyone who sees right through the public mask for what it is, they think they can act like they’re online (brave and mouthy, usually) when in fact they aren’t.
And then the job of having to teach them, once again, to keep uninformed opinions to themselves when amongst actual wolves, falls on me. And it’s tiring, thankless work as Garth knows well. Sigh.

Or, in fewer words: your argument for masks fails and falls flat
…………………………………………………………………..
Next time you have to go under the knife just ask all of the attending staff including nurses, anesthesiologist and surgeon to NOT WEAR A MASK while they cut you open and sneeze or cough into your surgical incision! Think about it? That is why wearing a mask works. Have you ever noticed how calm medical staff are in the OR?

#160 Andrew on 07.30.20 at 10:44 am

#154 Bang on!

There is No point writing the Facts and numbers and expect people to listen when the host of the blog and (90%) of its followers belive ALL THE MSM and T2’s BS!
Let’s face it most people will not clue in until it’s too late!

Garth if you think 70% will line up for the rushed vaccine than you are really are isolated or only are listening to the feedbacks from this half true blog!

I hear there are some nice camps being planned for anti-vaxxers in Ungava. – Garth

#161 Victor Maitland on 07.30.20 at 10:47 am

@#125 Attrition:
And then the job of having to teach them, once again, to keep uninformed opinions to themselves when amongst actual wolves, falls on me.

Wolves? I think you meant coyotes. Neither the clever fox nor the apex predator wolf, but noisier than both.
Simple heuristic: If you find yourself needing to explain to others how alpha you are, you aren’t.

#162 Andrew on 07.30.20 at 11:05 am

#154

I hear there are some nice camps being planned for anti-vaxxers in Ungava. – Garth

Now you are making ass out of yourself by assuming. I only said 70% is too high! The half true part I stand behind!

#163 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.30.20 at 11:16 am

158 Andrew on 07.30.20 at 10:44 am
#154 Bang on!

There is No point writing the Facts and numbers and expect people to listen when the host of the blog and (90%) of its followers belive ALL THE MSM and T2’s BS!
Let’s face it most people will not clue in until it’s too late!

Garth if you think 70% will line up for the rushed vaccine than you are really are isolated or only are listening to the feedbacks from this half true blog!

I hear there are some nice camps being planned for anti-vaxxers in Ungava. – Garth
————————
Yeah,
Right beside the anti-maskers camp.

#164 Camden Austeriech on 07.30.20 at 11:19 am

DELETED

#165 El presidente on 07.30.20 at 11:25 am

So he tossed it out there … delay the election……..should be a calm fall…. where can i get some HCQ happy pills

#166 Captain Uppa on 07.30.20 at 11:27 am

Even if we get a vaccine, the efficacy could be small. So while confidence would be boosted, I think some “new normals” will stay that way.

#167 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.30.20 at 11:36 am

What do you all think they’re going to do to the TFSA? Has anyone been able to find any “softening the blow” articles yet? I see Coyne did one on the primary residence exemption… so you know that’s coming.

I maxed, mine and my wife’s from the get-go, but I was really looking forward to this vehicle for my kids and their futures, once they turned 18 of course.

#168 Attrition on 07.30.20 at 11:38 am

Sigh.

Ok Maskists, you’ve convinced me. Clearly, the calm, rational thought and logic in steerage has put me in my place. I’ll join the chorus to help you stay calm.

Masks are magic. So let’s mandate them, impose fines for not wearing them, shame people who don’t wear them, and subsidize them.

Let’s pretend walking around in public is the same thing as being sliced open for surgery, let’s ignore any evidence that doesn’t reinforce our paranoia and fear, let’s toss in a false equivalence to suggest being against the solid science of vaccines, and let’s pretend no one drops used masks on the ground (or if they do, that no one ever touches them, or that any virus on them magically turns to gold dust, or Angel Dust if you prefer).

Wow, this kinda works. I can see why so many prefer to pretend and play make believe.

Ok, I’ll keep going: let’s also imagine that the virus inexplicably avoids the eyes, and that no one who wears a mask ever adjusts or touches it, and then touches something else in public.

Oh, while we’re on the topic of masks, a quick question: has anyone ever caught Covid despite wearing a mask?

#169 WhackoNation on 07.30.20 at 11:51 am

The anitmaskers and antivaxers have been mainlining the clorox a tad too much.

#170 Victor Maitland on 07.30.20 at 12:01 pm

@157 JB,
Had my appendix removed last year. When the surgeon & anesthesiologist walked in with those silly masks on, I said “You take those masks off right now or I’ll wring your scrawny beta male necks! I don’t let cowards operate on me!” They complied at once. I know it sounds like BS but I swear people naturally respond to my alpha male persona like that, even highly competent medical professionals. I’m a wolf. ARRROOOOOOO!!!

#171 Cici on 07.30.20 at 12:09 pm

Well, this is interesting, from Bank of Montreal:

“We will now refund the additional interest accumulated on your deferred mortgage payments for the entire deferral period1.
If you have applied or are applying for financial relief on mortgages, we will refund the additional interest accumulated on your deferred mortgage payments for the entire deferral period.

The refund will be processed automatically at a later date, and there is no action required from you. For more information, please visit our Mortgage FAQ Section.”

Not exactly sure what they mean by “the additional interest accumulated,” but it sounds like the deferral period is now interest free? Or is there no “interest on the interest” (but don’t they only do that with credit cards).

If the entire deferral period is now interest free, I guess there really never has been a better time to gamble your money on Tesla stock.

Honest renters who actually pay their rent lose again!

This is interest accumulated on top of the interest payable on the loan amount. It’s a piffle, with all of the missed interest on the principal being added to the outstanding loan balance. – Garth

#172 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.30.20 at 12:13 pm

“I hear there are some nice camps being planned for anti-vaxxers in Ungava. – Garth”

++++

One Trillion black flies and mosquitoes cant be wrong……

#173 Faron on 07.30.20 at 12:19 pm

#168 Attrition on 07.30.20 at 11:38 am

You seem to be confusing 100% protection with reduction. Transmission and infection are functions of viral loading.

You also forget that masks are for the protection of others, not yourself in this case. Altruism is a tough concept for some to grasp.

#174 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.30.20 at 12:23 pm

#168 Attrition on 07.30.20 at 11:38 am
Sigh.

Ok Maskists, you’ve convinced me. Clearly, the calm, rational thought and logic in steerage has put me in my place. I’ll join the chorus to help you stay calm.

Masks are magic. So let’s mandate them, impose fines for not wearing them, shame people who don’t wear them, and subsidize them.

Let’s pretend walking around in public is the same thing as being sliced open for surgery, let’s ignore any evidence that doesn’t reinforce our paranoia and fear, let’s toss in a false equivalence to suggest being against the solid science of vaccines, and let’s pretend no one drops used masks on the ground (or if they do, that no one ever touches them, or that any virus on them magically turns to gold dust, or Angel Dust if you prefer).

Wow, this kinda works. I can see why so many prefer to pretend and play make believe.

Ok, I’ll keep going: let’s also imagine that the virus inexplicably avoids the eyes, and that no one who wears a mask ever adjusts or touches it, and then touches something else in public.

Oh, while we’re on the topic of masks, a quick question: has anyone ever caught Covid despite wearing a mask?

————–

It falls on deaf ears bud… The disregard for facts afflicts both sides in this argument. Maskholes, and Anti-Maskholes alike.

Some people are very afraid of this virus. Their reasons are their own for why this is, we could speculate… Some can’t/won’t admit it so they try to persuade others that they’re only doing it to protect others – but it’s fear. Scared people are dangerous people because half of their brains are shutoff. There are also some people that do it to fit in, and some people do it because it’s currently a legal requirement. Regardless, they will not be convinced otherwise. Just the same as the antimaskers won’t be convinced.

This mask debate has been politicized, so because it is partisan, you will not be able to convince anyone. Just do whatever you want as long as you’re willing to suffer the consequence of your actions. Some laws are just, and some are unjust.

If the maskers think it’s ok, then let them do it. If the antimaskers think it’s ok, then let them do it. If anyone gives you grief for any of it, fake a sneeze and watch them scatter, mask on or not.

#175 MF on 07.30.20 at 12:26 pm

#168 Attrition on 07.30.20 at 11:38 am

There is no “maskers” vs “none maskers”. I can’t stand wearing a mask, but I do it anyways because I understand the logic. This is where 95% of us stand on this issue.

I gotta ask, what was the point of your comment? To draw some ideological wedge? My advice is to ignore the “us versus them” ideological poop coming from south of the border.

MF

#176 Faron on 07.30.20 at 12:43 pm

Yield on the US 10 yr down 3 basis points today approaching all time low set mid-plunge. Things are doubleplusungood in the US economy. President hinting at election delay and likely game of chicken over stimulus in congress. I know this is a CDN blog, but there will be overflow of this sewage across the border.

#177 WTF on 07.30.20 at 1:00 pm

#168 Attrition

Lets Pretend you have extensive knowledge of epidemiology and have studied, assisted, and otherwise participated in mitigating previous pandemics.

#174 “Maskholes, and Anti-Maskholes ”

Credibility shot in the first sentence, well done!

#178 Masks really do make some people more attractive on 07.30.20 at 1:17 pm

#174 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.30.20 at 12:23 pm

“It falls on deaf ears bud… The disregard for facts afflicts both sides in this argument. Maskholes, and Anti-Maskholes alike.”

/////////////

That’s right, there’s very good people on both sides.

#179 TurnerNation on 07.30.20 at 1:25 pm

Gotta hand it to our ruling globalists. They hate our way of life and shut it down. Then write a nice report about it. Such effeciency.

https://summit.news/2020/07/29/un-officials-cite-study-that-finds-lockdowns-school-closures-killing-more-children-than-covid/

There is one more card they could play. Insurance companies. Without insurance companies providing coverage not even fire trucks or ambulances could be put onto the road. Liability. Would they play that card…and toss what’s left of society into the pyre. We are living a global sacrifice. Individual rights were the first to go. You no longer have any right to be sick; and perversely no method of proving your own health.
‘Keeping us safe’

#180 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.30.20 at 2:00 pm

#177 WTF on 07.30.20 at 1:00 pm
#168 Attrition

Lets Pretend you have extensive knowledge of epidemiology and have studied, assisted, and otherwise participated in mitigating previous pandemics.

#174 “Maskholes, and Anti-Maskholes ”

Credibility shot in the first sentence, well done!

——

Technically, third sentence. I see you’re in no mood for word play.

#181 MF on 07.30.20 at 2:12 pm

179 TurnerNation on 07.30.20 at 1

Yeah that’s it. The “globalists” shut down the border, stopped immigration, and reduced the flow of goods around the world.

Does that sound like globalism to you?

Do you even know what globalism is? Clearly not.

MF

#182 JB on 07.30.20 at 2:57 pm

#170 Victor Maitland on 07.30.20 at 12:01 pm

@157 JB,
Had my appendix removed last year. When the surgeon & anesthesiologist walked in with those silly masks on, I said “You take those masks off right now or I’ll wring your scrawny beta male necks! I don’t let cowards operate on me!” They complied at once. I know it sounds like BS but I swear people naturally respond to my alpha male persona like that, even highly competent medical professionals. I’m a wolf. ARRROOOOOOO!!!
…………………………………………………………………..
As soon as they juiced you up with sleepy time juice they put them back on and laughed at the alpha male laying helplessly on the table.

#183 Uncle Bob on 07.30.20 at 7:40 pm

@#47 re #20

Billy Bob, corporate welfare is paid for by tax payers. The myth that corporations are purely “job creators” is BS. There are many corporations whose sole purpose is to syphon and hide funds drawn from the public sector. (Remember the Panama Papers?) Don’t believe me? Read this:

https://prospect.org/economy/corporate-welfare-hurts/

and this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_for_the_rich_and_capitalism_for_the_poor

#184 DON on 07.31.20 at 4:08 am

A friend overheard two grocery cashiers having a conversation about a surge in buying certain products. As we near the inevitable sick season people are nervous. How can they not be! Its been drilled into their heads that this whole virus would be all over by July August at the latest…cause China did or did they? The talk of a second wave is becoming more mainstream, outbreaks are flaring up, small but in the news constantly. The US experience is too close to home for some and a constant reminder. More and more city councils enacting manditory mask bylaws. I am not seeing much opposition to this.

It makes sense to be concerned for the welfare and health of your loved ones and friends. The last thing we need to do is make matters worse. We need to take an honest look at the current state of affairs and do what we can to reduce the spread, protect the vulnerable and resume our daily activities as much as possible.

I am more concerned about consumer spending the longer people live in fear of the virus or job loss. Projects on hold…no new ones coming down the pipe…reduced government spending and more layoffs announced.

And the first wave of the virus doesn’t seem to be over and we are already in a juggernaut. I hope we recover fast, but what is the actual reality?

Unfortunately members of our media seem to be playing hide and seek with the facts as arguments rage on in the background preventing any real progress but the sensationalism is good for ratings and ad revenue.

We need a rebirth in the fields of politics and media that has become very apparent. Hell throw in economics and real estate as well.

#185 Jake Martinez on 07.31.20 at 8:52 am

My Manulife stock is still way down from 2008 which I paid $44.08 a share and now is only worth $18.45 per share.

This could easily happen to bank stocks big and small as things get worse and worse.