The bad idea

So a quarter million people received double CERB payments, amounting to $442 million. They applied twice, once through the CRA and again through Service Canada. We also know over $11 billion in virus payments of $2,000 a month are going to children living at home who worked part-time in the last year.

Ottawa will send at least $60 billion to people receiving these Covid benefits, which have been extended by two months. Small businesses complain a lot of workers don’t want to return to the job because of the relatively lucrative payments. BMO economists say the CERB is a “key risk” to economic recovery. Manitoba premier Brian Pallister, my old buddy from Parliament, says, “I think it’s common sense and long overdue that we remove these impediments to people going back and taking another shift.” And the longer the virus pogey goes on, the more dependent people become upon it and the louder are calls for a permanent replacement – a universal basic income (UBI).

But beyond the fact the government’s paying people not to work, beyond the mismanagement of public funds through overpayments, beyond giving children two grand a month all summer and the grinding reality the country doesn’t have this money on hand, is another reality: billions is gassing stock market gambling.

The evidence seems overwhelming in both Canada and the US. Online brokers like Schwab, Ameritrade, Etrade and especially the Millennial fav, Robinhood, have been swamped with new accounts. About six million of them in the last few months. Robinhood alone has opened three million. In Canada over a half-million new accounts have been added to Questrade, Wealthsimple, BMO Investorline and RBC Direct. This is the most action since weed stocks first went on sale, and harkens back to the day-trading frenzy of the dot-com era twenty years ago.

It looks like this is having an effect on markets, since most of the newbie ‘investors’ are flipping individual stocks instead of choosing more diversified ETFs holding a broad index or a specific sector. Look at Tesla, for example. Robinhooders have been making up to 10,000 trades per hour in that company’s stock, helping propel the profitless outfit to whimsical levels and making its founder, Elon Musk, the richest human. But he’s still weird.

The kids have also created what’s been called the ‘bankruptcy bubble’ on Bay Street. Companies like Hertz or JC Penny that collapsed into a steaming pile of debt and whose stock values cratered along with them have been wildly traded in a speculative frenzy. “It’s a head-scratcher because people are getting involved in volatile penny stocks but the underlying fundamentals of these companies are horrific,” one Bay Streeter is reported stating. “These are companies that are for all intents and purposes bankrupt; they have too much debt and the stocks are going up 50 to 100 per cent a day. You’re not investing, you’re gambling.”

There’s another problem. Algos.

Up to 90% of all activity on markets is done by computers in a blaze of HFT (high-frequency trading). Algorithms are programmed to sniff out things like mispriced stocks, arbitrage opps and spurts in trading volume. So when thousands of moisters start slamming a stock they just read about on Twitter, the algos can pile on, propelling that issue even higher. And then there is the complete madness of crowds in a world when information is wide but comprehension shallow. That’s how Zoom Technologies jumped 240% – because it was mistaken for Zoom Video – and Chinese real estate pipsqueak Fangdd became a $4 billion stock play when the kids mistook it for an amalgam of the FAANG darlings (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix & Google).

Some day traders have made a pile of money, especially those buccaneers who embraced risk when the virus crashed stocks in late March. But many have bought turkeys or foolishly taken positions in ghost companies plus seriously inflated endeavours like that of Mr. Musk.

By grasping individual equities it’s a safe bet most of these new accounts lack any kind of diversification or have a balance between growth assets and safer fixed income stuff. So if markets retrace in a second Covid wave or tank for a while because America’s screwed up and the November elections go off the rails, there will be tears. As this pathetic blog has shown in stark stats, there’s infinitely more risk in buying into one or two companies (especially those feeding off fads) than in owning an ETF which holds the 500 biggest companies in America.

But, wait. Whose money is actually at risk here?

In North America governments have now pumped trillions of virus dollars into the hands of citizens. A lot of them desperately needed help since Covid stole their incomes amid quarantines, lockdowns and the collapse of whole industries. But others have chosen to gamble their pogey cheques as well as the cash saved from deferred mortgage payments, with stocks being the game of choice.

Besides seeing money magically appear in their bank accounts through direct deposit from Ottawa, a lot of people are bored. No work routine. No pro sports in stadia or on TV. No concerts or festivals. No bars or clubs. But anybody can open an online brokerage account with a few clicks, and start being a Master of the Universe of a Wall Street wolf.

Is this a step up from lusting for a condo and taking on 20x leverage to get one?

Yup. It is. But there’s no way you can call it investing.

Without doubt, billions will eventually be lost. But many of the losers will care not. Just a game. And the money was free. At least to them.

 

198 comments ↓

#1 WIN not Lose on 07.26.20 at 12:48 pm

Good morning

Any comments that even though Nova Scotia is free of active cases (11 days since a new case was discovered) they want to introduce mandatory masks on July 31?

https://twitter.com/Bret_Sears/status/1287410845459394563

#2 Joe on 07.26.20 at 1:02 pm

This isn’t new. The fed has been pumping newly printed money into the markets for decades. Why flagging this now Garth?

#3 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.26.20 at 1:03 pm

Soooooo?
The market is over priced?
Too many amateurs cashing dreams with “free” money?
We should be in cash and avoid Mr Market until things calm down in a few months?

#4 Sail Away on 07.26.20 at 1:06 pm

Sounds like a fine time for more Berkshire.

#5 akashic record on 07.26.20 at 1:07 pm

Main Street is taking advantage of money printing and QE, which used to be exclusively exploited by Wall Street.

Investors and central banks will hate when GLD is the next TSLA.

#6 Felix on 07.26.20 at 1:14 pm

Real cats do not practice BDSM. Try it and we’ll slash your face with our claws.

#7 the Jaguar on 07.26.20 at 1:15 pm

Mercy! Hope you’re wearing steel boxers today, Garth.
The Muskateers will be out in full force. They are a cult.
The only thing weirder than Elon Musk are the women in his life like Amber Heard and the current girlfriend in her ‘goth’ outfits.
As for young people using CERB payments to stoke the markets, maybe this is what the constant rant of some posters ( change or be run over by it ) is all about. The ‘change’ is a world descending into hell with them at the wheel of the bus.
Better go lock and load my Luger.

#8 Buy? Curious? on 07.26.20 at 1:16 pm

Am I first? Nooooo way!

Garth, I think you’re spot on this one! I think there’s going to be a very severe crash, but you know what? Who cares? This will be the great debt jubilee in the history of the world! We should be spending our collective brains out like it’s 1999! You and Prince are sexy personalities that can see into the future! (He wore fancy boots too!)

#9 Doug in London on 07.26.20 at 1:19 pm

So a lot of new trading accounts have been opened. I figure they must have been opened in mid March when stocks were on sale and a lot of people saw an opportunity to scoop up some DIRT CHEAP bargains.

#10 jess on 07.26.20 at 1:27 pm

deaf to the alarm bell

https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=goldman-sachs

he 2020 Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (or CARES Act) provides hundreds of billions of dollars in assistance to large and small corporations whose operations have been disrupted by the Covid-19 pandemic. The public deserves to know which companies are receiving the assistance and whether aid is flowing to firms with a poor record of corporate accountability.

Covid Stimulus Watch answers those needs. It assembles CARES Act recipient data and combines it with information about each firm’s history of regulatory violations, previous government assistance, federal tax avoidance, and CEO and worker pay practices.

https://tinyurl.com/yy6br3s4
https://covidstimuluswatch.org/

=============
so do they get to write this off?
Goldman Sachs agrees to a $3.9 billion 1MDB settlement with Malaysia

..”The government of Malaysia has agreed to drop all criminal and regulatory proceedings in Malaysia involving the firm, including pending proceedings against subsidiaries of Goldman Sachs (GS) and certain current and former directors, Goldman Sachs said in a statement.

The Wall Street bank will pay the Malaysian government $2.5 billion, and provide a guarantee that it also receives “at least $1.4 billion in proceeds from assets related to 1MDB seized by governmental authorities around the world,” it added.
“This settlement represents assets that rightfully belong to the Malaysian people,” said Tengku Dato’ Sri Zafrul Aziz, Malaysia’s Minister for Finance, in a statement

#11 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 1:34 pm

Let’s look at Ontario’s “scientific” process to re-open the economy – aka staving off the 2nd Wave of bankruptcies.
A major fast food joint in the 905.
Long lines of masked people forced 6 feet apart.
Throwback to the de-lousing showers in the camps they are force squirted with some purifying liquid. Filthy animals they are, as per our elites.
Indoor Washrooms? Nope too deadly.
As I always say our elites dial us back 100 years.
The fetid porta potties in the parking lot await customers. Festering open sewers, in the beating sunshine. Gross. This is healthy?

Didn’t indoor plumbing cure so many diseases?
Science eh. This ain’t it.
What’s going on is mass re-programming, mind control and chaos trauma.
Bit by bit (cough, Block chain CV certs anyone? )
the New System is being rolled out.

Get this. Someone in late 60s apparently detailed part of the planned New System he was privy too.
One part was that the only sport left would be soccer.
Toronto’s baseball team was banned from the country. If US shuts down this means no longer NHL, NBA, NFL. Which leaves…soccer (Europe)
Keep an eye on this story.

#12 Ace Goodheart on 07.26.20 at 1:43 pm

A major index is about to list Tesla. They apparently have to, if Tesla turns a profit (big if, it usually does not).

The world’s most valuable car company, has two known factories, produces cars that almost no one drives, advertises a “self driving” system that does not exist (but they are working on it, to be released “soon”), and has a price to earnings ratio that would give a trader of “naked shorts” a nosebleed and night sweats.

These weird, profitless tech companies are going to start crashing well known, well established index funds.

They have been kept out of the funds for the most part, as they never earn profits, and fund themselves by selling stock (Uber and Lyft are two good examples of this, another big one is Netflix).

However, when free, freshly printed government money floods the system, weird things happen.

I think this is going to be worse than most people imagine, when it all starts to unravel. There is literally no value being created with all of the money printing and “investing” that is going on.

My big worry is that some of these profitless tech companies are going to crash major indexes and cause losses in some of my fund holdings. I lose sleep wondering what I am going to do, for example, if the funds I hold are forced to buy TSLA shares. I would have to dump the fund, as I don’t want that garbage in my portfolio.

Governments have to stop messing with currency markets like this. This is one step away from communism.

#13 Ace Goodheart on 07.26.20 at 1:52 pm

Oh and for the folks who are going to respond to me and say “but Netflix makes a profit!” No, it really doesn’t.

Netflix appears to be profitable because of an accounting trick.

They fund their content production costs by issuing bonds. So they are “debt funding” their operations, while showing an operating profit.

They are, and always have been, cash flow negative. Ie, they spend more than they take in, each and every year.

This is a common trick with profitless tech companies (Tesla does this too). You just fund your operations by issuing debt, rather than spending cash on hand, and then you can show a “profit” while your operation is actually cash flow negative.

#14 Dave on 07.26.20 at 1:59 pm

The government choose not to use unique identifiers like SIN so people are able to double dip cerb

Why…when is money free. Something really bad is going to happen.

#15 Ace Goodheart on 07.26.20 at 2:03 pm

RE: #7 the Jaguar on 07.26.20 at 1:15 pm

There is a darker part to a lot of these mega tech giants that seem to never make money.

They all want to get onto indexes.

There is a reason for this.

If you are a CEO of one of these companies, you know your business model. You know it can never make money. You know your company will be cash flow negative for its entire existence, eventually flaming out in a massive debt bomb.

You also know that the above flame out is years and years away.

So what do you do? If you want a payout, once you have pumped your stock and gotten the kids to buy it, cashing out millions or billions for yourself, but you are still greedy, what next?

Well, you give yourself stock options. Pick a price that will make you into a billionaire if your stock ever gets put on a major index.

But wait, you say, your company is cash flow negative. It can never earn a profit. It loses money every year.

Not to worry, all you do is issue debt to fund your operations. You can then show a profit, even though your company loses money.

Bingo, you are on an index, the stock soars, and you cash in your options at a massive gain to yourself.

You are rich, and everyone else is left holding shares of your money losing, worthless enterprise.

You then ride it downwards, cashing out as much as you can get, and “resigning” as director when things get too ugly.

Get rick quick in the era of millennials who buy stock based on how they “feel” about its social utility and whether or not its CEO is a vegan and supports “climate change” initiatives and goes to “We day” events.

#16 Faron on 07.26.20 at 2:04 pm

Last week the king of the nouveau day traders, David Portnoy, got an interview with Donald Trump because #stonks. WT everloving F. Run fast and run far from this.

Oh, and they are getting into options trading.

I bought EQAL as one means of avoiding the FATNAG bubble. Brings the weighting of bubbly tech down from the current cap weighted 20ish percent. Low vol XMW or ACWV are appealing to me too. Decent dividends for broad ETFs too.

#2 Joe: this is a new phenom. There have been day trader bubbles before (i.e. Bitcoin a few years back) but they were not funded by stimulus programs, or not nearly to the same degree.

Read thestonkmarket.com if you want to laugh at the action from whatever your chosen relative safety is. Basically The Onion for current market insanity.

#17 Learn2investkid.com on 07.26.20 at 2:12 pm

I discussed day trading bankrupt companies with my son. It’s gambling like you said but many novice investors think they have figured out how the system works. Many are going to lose big. My son wrote an article about this recently:

https://www.learn2investkid.com/post/investing-and-building-a-superhero-body

#18 Tripp on 07.26.20 at 2:14 pm

The stock gambler phenomenon is here, and the markets need to deal with it. The experienced day traders are obviously caught by surprise by the massive increase in competition, and the estimates are not what they used to be due to the unpredictability of the market. The algos need to be re-written to reflect the present.

I am sure the whole financial system will adapt rapidly, since there is a lot of money that could be made in a high risk environment. Just as well, there is probably more money to be lost…

#19 Faron on 07.26.20 at 2:15 pm

Ace, the S&P has a committee who decides what gets included. They don’t have to list TSLA but history shows, apparently, that they often lean toward momo. Essentially, the S&P is an actively managed index. If that bothers you, pick a completely passive index like one of the Russels.

#20 jess on 07.26.20 at 2:18 pm

BARCELONA — Nightclubs, bars and beaches — some of Spain’s most beloved summer venues — are facing new lockdown restrictions after turning into coronavirus hot spots.

The northeast region of Catalonia now hosts two of the most worrying virus hotspots in Spain, prompting authorities to tighten restrictions in Barcelona and a rural area around Lleida that were relaxed only a month ago when Spain had its devastating outbreak in check.

Britain has put Spain back on its unsafe list and announced Saturday that travellers arriving in the U.K. from Spain must now quarantine for 14 days. Norway also ordered a 10-day quarantine for those returning from the Iberian Peninsula. France and Belgium are recommending that travellers ditch plans to spend their summer vacations in Barcelona and its nearby beaches, which have seen crowds too massive to allow for social distancing. Police have had to step in and take measures to reduce the number of beach-goers…

Spain reported over 900 new daily infections on Thursday and Friday

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/spain-takes-aim-at-nightclubs-and-beaches-as-virus-rebounds-1.5039505?cache=%3FclipId%3D104069

#21 Dolce Vita on 07.26.20 at 2:22 pm

Well Garth, apparently Robinhood is not the only place where the “kids” are spending CERB money…

“Young Canadians flock to TikTok to thank ‘Daddy Trudeau’ for CERB spending sprees”

Skip the BNN-Bloomberg video at the top, instead, scroll down to view a couple of embedded TikTok videos, 2 of them about their CERB spending spree.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/young-canadians-flock-to-tiktok-to-thank-daddy-trudeau-for-cerb-spending-sprees-1.1469011

One other kid mocks his generation for the above:

https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewstewart534/video/6813727365634526469

—————————–

Retail Trade will do better?

#22 Linda on 07.26.20 at 2:24 pm

So what will happen with the doubled up payments? Are the recipients going to have to pay them back? You’d think, but given the way things are going, might be JT will declare an amnesty on doing so. As for the kids living at home, best summer EVER. Don’t have to do the summer job – or any job for that matter – but have the money to party. Or buy whatever is ‘in’ right now.

Also, since we apparently are now the land of government largesse for the financially strapped, what are the odds the government will next shower endless taxpayer cash upon the stock market gambling crowd? After all, it would only be ‘fair’ to bail them out, since we bailed out – well, come to think of it, is there anyone we haven’t bailed out by now? Oh, yes – the fiscally prudent, those who continued to work during Covid & anyone who isn’t yet over 65 but is retired as well as anyone who didn’t qualify for CERB for whatever reason.

#23 CERBNation on 07.26.20 at 2:29 pm

#11 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 1:34 pm
Let’s look at Ontario’s “scientific” process to re-open the economy – aka staving off the 2nd Wave of bankruptcies.
A major fast food joint in the 905.
Long lines of masked people forced 6 feet apart.
Throwback to the de-lousing showers in the camps they are force squirted with some purifying liquid. Filthy animals they are, as per our elites.
Indoor Washrooms? Nope too deadly.
As I always say our elites dial us back 100 years.
The fetid porta potties in the parking lot await customers. Festering open sewers, in the beating sunshine. Gross. This is healthy?

Didn’t indoor plumbing cure so many diseases?
Science eh. This ain’t it.
What’s going on is mass re-programming, mind control and chaos trauma.
Bit by bit (cough, Block chain CV certs anyone? )
the New System is being rolled out.

Get this. Someone in late 60s apparently detailed part of the planned New System he was privy too.
One part was that the only sport left would be soccer.
Toronto’s baseball team was banned from the country. If US shuts down this means no longer NHL, NBA, NFL. Which leaves…soccer (Europe)
Keep an eye on this story.

My god yer onto something…. world domination via soccer!… the chemtrail spraying in TO must be going strong… go get em tiger

#24 MF on 07.26.20 at 2:44 pm

Great post.

This whole thing is a result of having less entertainment other than sitting at home on your phone and computer looking for ways to make money, for months.

It’s always the same with us retail investors. We all look good during bull markets, but get utterly obliterated during bear markets when the big boys make the moves and take us all out.

Hey We’ve all been there. We hear about some liar who tells about all the money he’s made trading stocks. It could be a friend of a friend, someone on tv, YouTube, or social media. No one you actually know, surprisingly of course.

Anyways, we make a few trades, get lucky, make a few bucks, and feel great. Then the inevitable losses come. Usually a string of losses. The whole thing is just rolling the dice anyways.

Then the complaining and moaning starts. The blaming of other people is typical. “bankers”, “globalists” and whatever other boogie man term (other than ourselves) is the in vogue at the time. It’s all the same though.

So predictable. Of course the Robin Hood speculators will get crushed. Of course tsla will fall. Of course we will hear crying and complaining.

Balanced and boring it is. No other choice really.

MF

#25 Camille on 07.26.20 at 2:47 pm

You can’t be serious linking Robinhood and a condo purchase? Is the 20x leverage reference a false analogy to a stock P/E ratio to make a point. Is a condo purchase gambling?
Yoda says “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering”.

#26 Mike on 07.26.20 at 2:56 pm

https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/featured/an-epic-failure-the-first-duty-of-police-is-to-preserve-life-through-the-nova-scotia-massacre-the-rcmp-saved-no-one/

#27 Dolce Vita on 07.26.20 at 2:57 pm

#20 jess

Good point. But here’s the deal:

What the, as usual, brain dead Cdn. MSM are not telling you is that a lot of those COVID-19 outbreaks in Spain are from:

Mary Mallon infected UK tourists vacationing there.

So, it’s PRETTY RICH and CAVALIER of the UK to put Spain on its dung list.

—————————-

Advice Inghilterra:

Don’t send you pillock infected tourists to Spain in the FIRST PLACE (or to Italia). Imbeciles.

—————————-

COVID-19 new cases in Europe yesterday.

Spain 2255
France 1130
United Kingdom 768
Germany 818
Sweden 234 (the lowest they’ve been in weeks, typically 500 to +700/day)

AND:

Canada 508
America ∞

Scorned in March by the above…

Italy 252 (in Feriae Augusti, celebrated now for over 2,000 years)

…who laughing now?

#28 Arcticfox on 07.26.20 at 3:00 pm

There’s an irony here. The “money changers” have been bailed out by central banks(tax payers) due to their financial engineering(leveraged speculation) 3 times in last 20 years. Socialism has been growing the last few decades, but it was the corporate type. Privatize their gains but socialize the losses. The proletariat is now getting in on the game..what entity will bail out this time with sovereigns maxed out now too?

#29 Andrewski on 07.26.20 at 3:01 pm

The Stonk Market is hilarious.

#30 crossbordershopper on 07.26.20 at 3:04 pm

money for nothing and chicks for free as the song goes.

#31 bob on 07.26.20 at 3:11 pm

Hey Garth,

If I read between the lines about all this ‘manipulation’ in the market…

Are you hinting that there could be a very volatile correction forthcoming? akin to the “this doesn’t end well”…

I mean, why not sit on some cash on the sidelines and see where things are in December post US election? And pile in if there is a big drop between now and then?

Stop trying to time the market. It never works. Invest when you have money. – Garth

#32 Tripp on 07.26.20 at 3:17 pm

Olivia de Havilland is dead at 104.

“Gone with the wind” is no longer a milestone in the art of cinematography. But hey, the mortgage is 2%, so who cares…

#33 Dolce Vita on 07.26.20 at 3:22 pm

#4 Sail Away

From what some young Canadians are spending their CERB money on, invest instead in:

Gucci
Versace
SSense

…if the first 2, Italia thanks you. If the last ast one, Montréal thanks you.

Take one on the chin for the team, pick the last one.

#34 Millennial 1%er on 07.26.20 at 3:23 pm

As usual, this blog hits the nail on the head. I know of many people who got CERB knowing that it will get clawed back come next tax season because they wanted to “buy the dip”.

Best summer ever indeed. All my low income stay at home friends didn’t have to work for pitiful income at some shitty grocer and still got good cash. The result? Everyones got new PCs. Hell yeah, more people to play Dota 2 with I guess. Meanwhile, all my stay at home tech worker friends are moving back to mom’s and are saving good amounts of money because they can’t party every weekend.

#35 binky barnes on 07.26.20 at 3:23 pm

Not to worry folks, Mr. Justin Trudeau (aka the Teflon Man, er, I mean, Teflon Person) has a plan for all this–and more. In short order his government will unveil this plan and then it will be full-steam-ahead for Canada.

BB

#36 FreeBird on 07.26.20 at 3:24 pm

Without doubt, billions will eventually be lost. But many of the losers will care not. Just a game. And the money was free. At least to them.
———————-
I’m guessing based on some comments online they assume it’ll be paid by wealthy (or anyone but them)? Except those with deepest of pockets, ie Daddy war/freebucks and Mr Morneau. But I’m sure they’ll pay they’re fair share back to our tax system to help. How will future public services and social payouts like UBI be funded? Explaining (probable) truths to the it’s free money crowd when reality starts to sink in down the road reminds me of the iconic court scene In A Few Good Men…you know. Either way great time excuse for a Nicholson clip.

https://youtu.be/PWSx0bBiNIs

#37 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 3:34 pm

Q. Can protect the elderly and vulnerable and get on with our lives?
A. No. This campaign is against children. A newborn must get used to three masked faces staring at it. Mom, Dad, Nurse. Blank compassionless and expression-less. A metaphor for the New System.
Children’s playgrounds must remain fenced off as danger zones. Sports, clubs and scouts, birthday parties are banned. No school recitals either.
The screen will be their life. Big global ruling tech corps like Google classroom will use the most advanced psychological training and control techniques. Children will be raised by the new technology global state.
My First Amazon account.

#38 Juve101 on 07.26.20 at 3:49 pm

Great post today, funny and insightful. The Zoom Technologies and Fangdd examples made me laugh out loud :)
I think you’re spot-on, free money and boredom seem to be driving this frenzy. The thing which annoys me though is how little reward there is for responsible behaviour. Why work hard and save if you can party on and have you ass saved by the politicians because you’re part of the largest voting block.
Donno… guess my parents didn’t prepare me for this new world. And I’m Ill preparing my own kids it seems.

#39 Piano_Man87 on 07.26.20 at 3:49 pm

I take it Garth has spent some time on /r/wallstreetbets, where this Robinhood TSLA options trading has a main hub.

A lot of the people trading on there are definitely gambling. Imagine making $10/hr in a dead end job. You are American. College costs six figs easily. Some people have made millions from a few k by trading TSLA options. What do you have to lose? A few k? Unlike the lotto, or the slot machine, options trading gives you a more earnest semblance of control. People make up strategies and win. Why can’t you? I empathize with those. But ultimately they are flushing their cash down the drain. They are buying the dream, not an investment.

#40 wallflower on 07.26.20 at 4:00 pm

#29 Andrewski on 07.26.20 at 3:01 pm
The Stonk Market is hilarious.

========
The stonkmarket IS hilarious.
But it is nonsense and it’s not too challenging to be funny when your content is nonsense.

Garth IS hilarious.
And his content is substantive.

#41 Flop... on 07.26.20 at 4:14 pm

So on today’s deeply flawed, but hotly anticipated, edition of Financial Destruction DownUnder, I had a look around to see what the OZ version of CERB was being reduced to.

CERB is one size fits all, the Australian version seems to blend elements of EI and CERB together with a slathering of Vegimite.

If you are single, partnered, have kids, or caring for someone comes into the equation.

At the moment someone paired up gets 2,120 a month, this changes to 2,230 a month if you are single.

In this hybrid version the recipients are currently getting what they call a Coronavirus supplement of $550 a fortnight or 1,100 a month.

So this supplement is roughly half of the money Canberra is currently doling out to keep people out of the gutter, or possibly to buy stocks, by the sounds of it.

These numbers will hold until September 24th and then the amount is being reduced but expected to continue until December 31st, 2020.

So for the last quarter of the year the CERB number down there would be 1,615,single, or 1,560 partnered.

Canada’s dollar is slightly higher but comparable, I have wired money back there when the AUD has been stronger.

Population is around 33% higher in Canada, with recent figures showing Australian GDP roughly showing 25% less GDP.

Are the middleweights on the world stage?

Probably not, with Canada only 2% of world GDP and Australia 1.45%

Overall they seem to offer a decent standard of living, plus they are handing out free cash.

Maybe they are Cruiserweight…

M46BC

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/24/weekly-cut-of-150-to-jobseeker-coronavirus-supplement-will-throw-370000-australians-into-poverty

#42 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 4:18 pm

All of our friends have put our SERB money into TSLA and AAPL. We’re making more money yearly doing this than working. Life is great lounging around all day enjoying the west coast weather and getting paid to do it. Can’t wait to vote for Justin again. He’s been the best thing Canada has seen in its history. Long live JT!

#43 Peter on 07.26.20 at 4:25 pm

A great article Garth. Thank you for your blog efforts, I enjoy them on a daily basis. Online platforms must be salivating at the transaction fees, why buy and hold quality ETFs? Not sexy enough

#44 T on 07.26.20 at 4:37 pm

#1 WIN not Lose on 07.26.20 at 12:48 pm
Good morning

Any comments that even though Nova Scotia is free of active cases (11 days since a new case was discovered) they want to introduce mandatory masks on July 31?

https://twitter.com/Bret_Sears/status/1287410845459394563

————

Correction, free of active KNOWN cases.

This virus can hide in asymptomatic carriers.

Plus travel could bring some carriers.

It’s an intelligent move to increase measures protect the population until the world has conquered this demon.

#45 Victor V on 07.26.20 at 4:40 pm

https://www.zolo.ca/toronto-real-estate/5-mason-boulevard

$300,000 price drop on this Cricket Club SFH.


…and still butt-ugly. – Garth

#46 conan on 07.26.20 at 4:48 pm

At the end of the day , the CERB, and other national programs of the same ilk , greased the economy with a serious dose of trickle up economics. The money was not completely useless. The relatively small amount of cheating still ended up goosing the economy, and does anyone doubt that a sizable percentage of these “cheaters,” are going to pay this money back?

A trickle down approach would have been disastrous. Everyone knows that there has to be work ” to do” before private industry creates any jobs. Private industry is efficient , not dumb.

#47 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 5:07 pm

#1 WIN not Lose at this point it’s all about maximal disruption to small business, socializing.
They don’t want people getting together asking Wtf is going on. No. #stayhome and get all info from telescreen. Scary numbers. Give up rights. Shut down small business.
All 7 billion tax slaves must be masked and in submission to the New System
They got us good this time and won’t be letting up. Likely until all First world countries are made bankrupt (topic of this blog).
Presto. New monetary system waiting in the wings?
The global rulers are playing the long game.
Incrementalism . Get to know its creep.

#48 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 5:11 pm

Covid seems to be only the first phase of the undermining of the US economy. Invasive plant seeds are being sent “for free” to US citizens hoping that they plant them and start phase 2 of the economic collapse of the US.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8560549/Seed-packets-mislabeled-jewelry-mailed-dozens-Americans-six-states-China.html

#49 T on 07.26.20 at 5:14 pm

#47 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 5:07 pm
#1 WIN not Lose at this point it’s all about maximal disruption to small business, socializing.
They don’t want people getting together asking Wtf is going on. No. #stayhome and get all info from telescreen. Scary numbers. Give up rights. Shut down small business.
All 7 billion tax slaves must be masked and in submission to the New System
They got us good this time and won’t be letting up. Likely until all First world countries are made bankrupt (topic of this blog).
Presto. New monetary system waiting in the wings?
The global rulers are playing the long game.
Incrementalism . Get to know its creep.

————

Or, maybe, it’s a global pandemic on a scale we haven’t experienced in our lifetimes. People need to be told how to act in order to protect ourselves and each other as very few have understanding or experience in the situation the world is currently in.

Of course, keep up with the nutty posts. They provide us with insight into conspiracy and crazy.

#50 tbone on 07.26.20 at 5:16 pm

I find it amusing how people are satisfied with the little amount they get from cerb.
Isnt anybody interested in obtaining some sort of wealth.
Like getting into a trade or educating yourself to achieve
a better paying job to gain a higher status in life .
That kind of money only allows you to exist .
Glad i wanted more out of life . Being poor wasnt an option for me.

#51 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.26.20 at 5:28 pm

@#26 Mike

I posted the link a few days ago.
Everyone should read it.

https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/featured/an-epic-failure-the-first-duty-of-police-is-to-preserve-life-through-the-nova-scotia-massacre-the-rcmp-saved-no-one/

#52 Insider Bethany on 07.26.20 at 5:31 pm

#trudeau will extend CERB for at least another 24 months

#53 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.26.20 at 5:32 pm

@#48 604 millennial

ahahahahahaha.

Time to step away from the Bong and call
hAPpy cANNbIs DAy.
You can both relate to each other.

#54 Doug in London on 07.26.20 at 5:39 pm

@MF, post 24:
Retail investors get obliterated during bear markets? Where do you get that idea? I’m a retail investor and during bear markets, like back in March, I went on a buying binge. I never really “lost” any money. You only lose money if you sell during a bear market.

#55 Yukon Elvis on 07.26.20 at 5:46 pm

#48 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 5:11 pm
Covid seems to be only the first phase of the undermining of the US economy. Invasive plant seeds are being sent “for free” to US citizens hoping that they plant them and start phase 2 of the economic collapse of the US.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8560549/Seed-packets-mislabeled-jewelry-mailed-dozens-Americans-six-states-China.html
………………………………….

Part of their brilliantly diabolical plan to destroy the USA and rule the world. Asymmetrical warfare. Of course they deny everything, admit nothing, and make counter accusations.

#56 binky barnes on 07.26.20 at 5:46 pm

I find it amusing how people are satisfied with the little amount they get from cerb.
Isnt anybody interested in obtaining some sort of wealth.
Like getting into a trade or educating yourself to achieve
a better paying job to gain a higher status in life .
That kind of money only allows you to exist .
Glad i wanted more out of life . Being poor wasnt an option for me.

——————————————————-

Such logical old-school thinking–you will not get far in this new Canada young man.

BB

#57 Flop... on 07.26.20 at 5:54 pm

A Melbourne couple were arrested yesterday for failing to wear masks at a place known as The 1000 Steps.

I looked it up, it sounds like a Melbourne version of the Grouse Grind.

People sitting on the couch are getting over 2000 Dingo Dollars to do nothing.

People trying to stay active are being locked up.

It could well take over a 1000 steps to get back to normal…

M46BC

https://www.parks.vic.gov.au/places-to-see/parks/dandenong-ranges-national-park/things-to-do/1000-steps-walk

#58 Sail Away on 07.26.20 at 5:56 pm

#24 MF on 07.26.20 at 2:44 pm

It’s always the same with us retail investors. We all look good during bull markets, but get utterly obliterated during bear markets when the big boys make the moves and take us all out.

Anyways, we make a few trades, get lucky, make a few bucks, and feel great. Then the inevitable losses come. Usually a string of losses.

—————-

Hey, you just told me last week it was easy.

I recommend a solid year of research and study, then try again, young feller!

#59 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 5:57 pm

#50 tbone: It’s not about “status” or “obtaining some sort of wealth” – it’s enjoying life without the stresses of the status you seem so eager to achieve. You’ll die at 45 from stress and our generation will live to 90 very happily.

#60 Comrade on 07.26.20 at 5:58 pm

Meantime in canada:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/young-canadians-flock-to-tiktok-to-thank-daddy-trudeau-for-cerb-spending-sprees-1.1469011

(Sorry garth it is BNN article)

#61 Trojan House on 07.26.20 at 6:08 pm

What’s up with the millennial generation? The most entitled, spoiled, emotional generation perhaps in history. They would rather play video games than work and they’re always trying to make a quick buck the easiest way they can.

Now, before you millennials get your knickers in a knot, I know not all of you are like that – but you seem to the be few and far between. And it’s not really their fault anyway – it’s our fault, the parents. We helicoptered them and gave them participation medals. Oh well…

#62 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.26.20 at 6:13 pm

@#50 tbone
“I find it amusing how people are satisfied with the little amount they get from cerb.
Isnt anybody interested in obtaining some sort of wealth.
Like getting into a trade or educating yourself to achieve
a better paying job to gain a higher status in life .
That kind of money only allows you to exist .”

+++++

True, but then again.
Legalized pot and free money!
Woooo Hooooo!
Parrrr-Taaaaaayyyyy.

Maybe by the time they’re 50….
They’ll figure it out.
Too late for most but…..we’ll be gone…..so even if they blame us for their foolish choices…….we wont have to listen………we’ll be gone.
:)

#63 majik on 07.26.20 at 6:19 pm

Robinhood sells it’s trade flow to HFTs like Citadel. Citadel recently got busted for frontrunning trades back in 2014…

#64 Canadarm 2 on 07.26.20 at 6:20 pm

#50 tbone- Little? Typical family of 2 adults and two eligible teens are taking in $6500/month. Add some double dipping and now it’s conservatively $10,500/month. And people wonder why a “job” is not worth it.

You’re also mistaking wealth creation with self-esteem. Most humans, whose ambitions are mostly modest, are to provide a home and hearth, with decent meals for people they love. Not necessarily garnering a higher status but admittedly perhaps a more deep and fulfilling existence that some would be envious of.

M52ON

#65 winterpeg on 07.26.20 at 6:27 pm

Wonder if your old buddy Pallister will think of taking a run at the Conservative leadership federally.
Don’t think he will; he has a lot on his plate in Manitoba cleaning up the NDP legacy of spending. Not a well liked guy by the unions, but I have to respect his fiscally conservative stance.

#66 Phylis on 07.26.20 at 6:40 pm

Well, the boys haven’t been able to bet on sports for a bit, so….

#67 D Tree on 07.26.20 at 6:42 pm

Future millennial millionaire here.

Garth – Big fan but you and the commenters here have really misunderstood TSLA. Electrification is a real and rising tide. Technology and production improvements are <12 months away from flipping heavily in favor of EVs.

1.TSLA is already eviscerating the auto industry. Look at sales growth trajectories. Look at debt. Look at product road maps. Traditional OEMs have nothing of substance in the “pipeline” :) EVs make gasoline cars look like donkeys.
2. TSLA owns the car lifecycle end-to-end. Sales, service, refueling, insurance,recycling, app store…
3. Pay attention to TSLA Energy. Especially, the energy utility company they just started in the U.K.
4. The real TSLA end game will be when they scale their new heat pump technology into a home HVAC system. Think of TSLA as Apple but selling all of the most expensive purchases in your life like cars and houses.

Because this is a real estate blog, I’ll throw out one more idea. What will GTA housing market look like when Ford and GM go out of business in the same year?

#68 Annek on 07.26.20 at 6:43 pm

I do not understand why university students get $1250 per month( who cannot find work due to Covid) and kids in high school, living with parents are getting $2000 per month.
Something is wrong here….

#69 ROTFL on 07.26.20 at 6:52 pm

First it was lower for longer and now it looks like it it is lower for ever, next MMT, UBI and then rest of the kitchen sink. Good luck removing any of this. For the last 10 years pollies have been cementing our trajectory all in the name of “economic recovery” Whaahahaha. What a recovery!

#70 Annek on 07.26.20 at 6:53 pm

#59 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 5:57 pm
#50 tbone: It’s not about “status” or “obtaining some sort of wealth” – it’s enjoying life without the stresses of the status you seem so eager to achieve. You’ll die at 45 from stress and our generation will live to 90 very happily.
……
If you live without a concern for saving a dime and enjoying “life” by spending what you have, then when you are older, you will be penniless, living on canned sardines and heaven knows what else. Living to 90 and being poor will not be fun. So enjoy now, suffer later…

#71 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.26.20 at 7:00 pm

#58 Sail Away on 07.26.20 at 5:56 pm
#24 MF on 07.26.20 at 2:44 pm

It’s always the same with us retail investors. We all look good during bull markets, but get utterly obliterated during bear markets when the big boys make the moves and take us all out.

Anyways, we make a few trades, get lucky, make a few bucks, and feel great. Then the inevitable losses come. Usually a string of losses.

—————-

Hey, you just told me last week it was easy.

I recommend a solid year of research and study, then try again, young feller!
———–
Sailo,
You spend a solid year on research and study on investing in the stock market.
Never heard of opportunity cost of the year wasted.
Who’s looking after your “so called” engineering firm during the year.
Why not let Garth look after your investments.
You sleep better.

#72 tax and spend on 07.26.20 at 7:00 pm

Same playbook as Pierre raise social benefits by 4 or 5 times to buy your votes in next election. Funny no one remembers or mentions the UIC ski team,UIC beach team.
Throw money everywhere.

#73 IMALWAYSRIGHT on 07.26.20 at 7:08 pm

I watched “The Great Reset” video last night. I certainly did not sleep well.

#74 GRG on 07.26.20 at 7:16 pm

CERB + Robinhood, LOL. How else we gonna close the wealth gap?

#75 Nonplused on 07.26.20 at 7:23 pm

UBI: Another example of what happens when people come to believe that somehow we can collectively afford things through the government that as individuals we cannot. I feel like a broken record trying to explain that the government does not have any money save what they raise through taxes or debt, so eventually this has to turn out to be a zero sum game. We will have to pay it back. With interest.

—————————–

Robinhood: More evidence that if you give fools money they will soon be parted from it. But where is it going to go? It won’t just disappear, only notional wealth can do that. Well, it is going to end up in the hands of the 0.0001% like it always does. For every newly minted day trader bidding up Tesla to the moon there is a hedge fund selling into it. The hedge fund gets the money. When TLSA finally comes back to earth, the hedge fund has the money and the day trader has a broken dream. I guess he still has his TSLA stock (but only if he wasn’t using margin) but the hedgies will wait until the stock represents something like value before they buy it back for pennies on the dollar. So even the CERB has turned out to be a way to make the rich richer and the foolish poor. The kids would have been better off spending the money on a sick gaming system. At least they would still have that.

Remember folks, there is a reason the same person always wins the family Christmas Monopoly game. Hope reigns eternal that this is your year, but all you can do is drag it out. Or you can look at the game of poker; if you can’t spot the patsy, it is you.

————————–

Reminds me of when WTI went negative and lots of people got wiped out because they didn’t realize that could happen. I knew it could because I lived through negative pricing for AECO gas (although only day gas, not a contract) and I remember the big piles of sulfur that used to sit outside every sour gas plant in Alberta because there was no market for it. When WTI goes to $5 a bbl you better know why before you buy it because you are going to have to take delivery or settle with someone who can. “It can’t go to zero!” Oh yes it can and it can get worse than that if nobody has any place to store it. There was a reason why all the people who trade oil for a living weren’t lifting the offer at $5. But a fool boldly goes where a wise man fears to tread.

So to wrap up my essay for today, if you don’t know what you are doing it is best not to do it, especially if it is dangerous. The problem is that many people have a really hard time knowing what it is that they don’t know. That’s why you have laws about who can design a bridge or do surgery or do gas fitting. If you let anyone do it things would look like the movie Idiocracy.

#76 Steven Nicolle on 07.26.20 at 7:34 pm

My wife has 1 more CERB left of $1000 then that’s it. She is a waiter looking for work and been dropping off resumes. One place she applied to on Indeed has 102 applications. If they were hiring based on experience when she applied 2 weeks ago she should have been hired. So don’t tell us people do not want to work. Employers are saying no one wants to work but it goes both ways. It’s a breakfast waiter job and they need 102 applicants! C’mon. Then they will say they couldn’t find anyone. BS

#77 Cici on 07.26.20 at 7:36 pm

@1 WIN not lose

Before you freak out thinking that the politician’s are out to destroy your sex life by imposing masks (or that this is part of their “mind control” strategy… it isn’t, they could already clearly see how our feeble minds work through simple observation), think about this possibility:

Policitians and health authorities might be trying to take care of you and the rest of the herd while trying to get the economy back up and running. That’s why they’re simultaneously trying to ramp-up the next phases toward full reopening, while monitoring increased upticks so they can take measures to quickly contain any future outbreaks.

In other words, to stimulate your local economy, politicians will be probably be reopening your borders, businesses and industries as quickly and progressively as possible. Since most of the economic activity will be stimulated by people coming in from other jurisdictions with higher COVID rates, they want you to wear a mask to protect yourself and your neighbours from the increased risk of falling ill.

#78 tbone on 07.26.20 at 7:48 pm

# 64 canadarm

I owned some spar stock many years ago .

Problem will exist when the taps run dry and they no longer get the cerb handout .
Then what ?
Whats plan B on how to feed the family and keep a roof over their head.
Gets cold in the winter under the Gardner expressway.

#79 Cancel Culture is Dishonest and Needs Cancelling on 07.26.20 at 7:51 pm

The biggest flaw in the idea of cancelling historical figures is very simple:

It assumes that the historical figures, if born and raised in the society of would still support the policies that got them cancelled.

My guess is that Washington, Jefferson, MacDonald and Columbus would be still people of exceptional character and bravery and their accomplishments would make them heroes of today.

Believing that a Washington and Jefferson of today would somehow believe in slavery is the stupidest thing I can think of.

#80 Ballingsford on 07.26.20 at 7:55 pm

Nothing is making sense. Been watching a couple of properties in Ottawa the last few days and both went for over $100,000 over asking. They were listings between $549,000-$600,000.

#81 MF on 07.26.20 at 7:59 pm

#25 Camille on 07.26.20 at 2:47 pm

Yes he is serious. Real estate investment in this country (and others) is almost always gambling. Rarely do people buy property to just live in it. It’s always to make money.

Blame years and years of real estate industry propaganda for that one. Oh yeah and gullible people too.

MF

#82 MF on 07.26.20 at 8:02 pm

58 Sail Away on 07.26.20 at 5

Wrongo. I said investing is realitively easy with etfs and doesn’t take years of study (although it doesn’t hurt).

Stock picking =\ investing though !

MF

#83 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.26.20 at 8:09 pm

#49 T on 07.26.20 at 5:14 pm b-a-a-a- h s:

“#47 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 5:07 pm
#1 WIN not Lose at this point it’s all about maximal disruption to small business, socializing.
They don’t want people getting together asking Wtf is going on. No. #stayhome and get all info from telescreen. Scary numbers. Give up rights. Shut down small business.
All 7 billion tax slaves must be masked and in submission to the New System
They got us good this time and won’t be letting up. Likely until all First world countries are made bankrupt (topic of this blog).
Presto. New monetary system waiting in the wings?
The global rulers are playing the long game.
Incrementalism . Get to know its creep.

————

Or, maybe, it’s a global pandemic on a scale we haven’t experienced in our lifetimes. People need to be told how to act in order to protect ourselves and each other as very few have understanding or experience in the situation the world is currently in.

Of course, keep up with the nutty posts. They provide us with insight into conspiracy and crazy.”
——————————————

Nutty posts? You’re the queen of paranoia.

#84 Re-Cowtown on 07.26.20 at 8:12 pm

#67 D Tree on 07.26.20 at 6:42 pm
Future millennial millionaire here.

Garth – Big fan but you and the commenters here have really misunderstood TSLA. Electrification is a real and rising tide. Technology and production improvements are <12 months away from flipping heavily in favor of EVs.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Where will all the electricity come from? Your grasp of energy production and energy density is juvenile and laughable. You probably believe that grid storage is a real thing, right?

Maybe you should run for PM. This country needs more drama majors to do electrical engineering for us.

#85 Km on 07.26.20 at 8:18 pm

All my food and beverage friends are taking a Cerb summer. I have many and they are all proud of it. One woman’s husband has asthma so he only works a few days a week even though he is a qualified chef. Pretty sure they are also getting a rent subsidy as well as childcare subsidy. No one seems to care about taking money they really don’t qualify for. If you live at home or have been called back to work there should be no way you can get it. Seems everyone is though so where does it end.

#86 Flop... on 07.26.20 at 8:18 pm

#76 Steven Nicolle on 07.26.20 at 7:34 pm
My wife has 1 more CERB left of $1000 then that’s it. She is a waiter looking for work and been dropping off resumes. One place she applied to on Indeed has 102 applications. If they were hiring based on experience when she applied 2 weeks ago she should have been hired. So don’t tell us people do not want to work. Employers are saying no one wants to work but it goes both ways. It’s a breakfast waiter job and they need 102 applicants! C’mon. Then they will say they couldn’t find anyone. BS

////////////////

Hey Mr Nicolle, I will try and help from afar.

You’re in the GTA aren’t you?

Just as a suggestion, as it sounds like your wife wants to get back to work, maybe she should apply for a construction cleaning job.

Waiting tables is looking shonky for the foreseeable future, while construction continues to rumble along in a lot of regions.

In places like Vancouver and Toronto, I don’t think it is too hard to get $20 an hour for this task.

The ladies that I recommend in Vancouver travel in groups of 4/5 and so benefit from things likereduced travel costs, safety and camaraderie.

Plus as an added bonus, in most cases, no one has pooped in the toilets yet, as we have to go outside to the portaloo…

M46BC

#87 Tim123 on 07.26.20 at 8:19 pm

The market is definitely volatility right now. It has been a great market for many traders. At least all the new traders have learned a few lessons like you can make money fast. They will soon learn that you can lose money fast. I think a lot more people will learn that sometimes going short on certain stocks or ETFs that have gone too far, too fast is a good strategy. Anyways, I think it is good that people are learning more about stock investing so on the whole this is a good thing that people are going into the markets.

#88 T-Rev on 07.26.20 at 8:30 pm

Meh. I can’t figure the world out anymore…actually I think I do get it, I just refuse to acknowledge it’s gotten this bad and that people are the way they are. I had such hopes for humanity.

So tomorrow I go to pick up an old Harley FXDWG…I’m at the point in my life where I just need to escape, fists to the wind…I think if everyone owned a bike and a dog, and we went to the dog park Saturday’s and rode together Sunday’s, the world could get back in order. Until then, I’ll be rolling on my wife glide and playing fetch with my retriever, and mostly ignoring the rest of the world. I tried to be an engaged citizen, I really did. Just didn’t work out.

#89 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 8:37 pm

#84 Re-Cowtown

What’s your thought on this project:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

I hope Daddy Trudeau stays in power for many years to come.

#90 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.26.20 at 8:37 pm

#59 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 5:57 pm
#50 tbone: It’s not about “status” or “obtaining some sort of wealth” – it’s enjoying life without the stresses of the status you seem so eager to achieve. You’ll die at 45 from stress and our generation will live to 90 very happily

—-

90 years of smoking pot and laying video games… wow! Great life.. heaven forbid you try to achieve something… Such an ambitious generation…

#91 Drinking on 07.26.20 at 8:43 pm

I cannot blame the youngers for trying to make a fast buck. As for long term investing?? Personally I have been cashing out; economies are a mess and the next thing they will go after is real estate and our retirement funds; there is no win!

I guess Felix likes to be tied up; to each there own!

#92 CL on 07.26.20 at 8:44 pm

It’s very sad. Born and raised here and used to love Canada. It’s great I suppose that if a gov’t forces economic shutdowns and then pays people and business to survive. But, when you have a country full of gutless politicians who are always stumping for votes, there is no will to shut off the taps or close Pandora’s box.

It has to happen somehow at some point since the country will not be able to sustain the debt that goes with it unless there is some major restructuring of financially sponsored government programs. I could see if maybe they consolidated programs such as EI, CPP, welfare from the provinces, etc, that it could maybe be pulled off but that would require government efficiencies that unions never want. Reducing government is never palpable for politicians or unions.

So, savers are the red headed step child of this country. Who knew doing the right things would be so wrong…..

#93 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.26.20 at 8:52 pm

#79 Cancel Culture is Dishonest and Needs Cancelling on 07.26.20 at 7:51 pm
The biggest flaw in the idea of cancelling historical figures is very simple:

It assumes that the historical figures, if born and raised in the society of would still support the policies that got them cancelled.

My guess is that Washington, Jefferson, MacDonald and Columbus would be still people of exceptional character and bravery and their accomplishments would make them heroes of today.

Believing that a Washington and Jefferson of today would somehow believe in slavery is the stupidest thing I can think of.

—–

Correct, don’t forget MacDonald and Laurier and every other Canadian hero they’ve tried to cancel. The cancel culture is practicing what is called presentism, applying our current set of morals upon people in history, and it’s absolutely wrong. It shows how simple minded people are not being able to understand historical nuance, and what a terrible bunch of panderers we have in government.

#94 YouKnowWho on 07.26.20 at 8:57 pm

#50 tbone

What are you talking about T?

Make nothing, do nothing, but a slanted semi, get CMHC insurance, defer, CERB and Let Saint Nick Trudeau give you what you need.

Maybe he is with the millennials? Blowing it all up Fight Club style?

#95 Robert Ash on 07.26.20 at 8:59 pm

Hopium, Economystic, Stupidium, and Hubris…. The Hubris award goes to the Central Bankers, that think thier PHD’s are useful, in creating new Economic paradigms, while ignoring common sense. The Credit market cannot function, with out balance and fairness… Credit is worth, 18% short term, in the form of a CC debit not paid, but Domestic Deposits, are worthless… So our enlightened Leaders, and their CB’s with new Theories, can’t understand, a simple way to preserve what is left of the previous functioning markets, is to co ordinate a slow and steady, increase in the overnight banking rate… 25BPS per quarter for two or three years…. The Banks, Pensions, and Insurance companies, and even the Market, will be able to survive…. It seems, counterintuitive, to print money and ease etc… while a lot of Cash is on the sidelines, due to many reasonable peoples conclusions, that the Market is not Healthy, or Functioning, with any normalcy.

#96 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.26.20 at 9:06 pm

@84 Re-Cowtown:

D-uh! Everyone knows that like, ya know, the electricity comes from that thingy on the wall!

#97 Sail Away on 07.26.20 at 9:14 pm

#71 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.26.20 at 7:00 pm

Sailo,

You spend a solid year on research and study on investing in the stock market.

Never heard of opportunity cost of the year wasted.

—————

Thanks for the wisdom, Ponz. If only we had met earlier I wouldn’t have wasted all those years of my life learning all those different things.

Oh, the wasted years!

#98 MF on 07.26.20 at 9:16 pm

#49 T on 07.26.20 at 5:14 pm

“Or, maybe, it’s a global pandemic on a scale we haven’t experienced in our lifetimes. People need to be told how to act in order to protect ourselves and each other as very few have understanding or experience in the situation the world is currently in.

Of course, keep up with the nutty posts. They provide us with insight into conspiracy and crazy.”

-Truth. But lol, please don’t egg him on. We’ve already been exposed enough to know the basic algorhythm of every post, which is:

Event A happens -> Blame event A on the “elites”

Event B happens -> Blame event B on the “elites”

Event C happens -> Blame event C on the “elites”

All joking aside, you are correct. Public health crises are better controlled when the population strives to follow the advice of the experts. The experts, in turn, have a responsibility to keep the advice easy to follow for the majority of people. For us, wearing a mask, trying to keep social distance with others, is easy to follow and effective IMO. I don’t see a total lockdown in the future being a viable option, though.

MF

#99 T on 07.26.20 at 9:18 pm

#83 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.26.20 at 8:09 pm
#49 T on 07.26.20 at 5:14 pm b-a-a-a- h s:

“#47 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 5:07 pm
#1 WIN not Lose at this point it’s all about maximal disruption to small business, socializing.
They don’t want people getting together asking Wtf is going on. No. #stayhome and get all info from telescreen. Scary numbers. Give up rights. Shut down small business.
All 7 billion tax slaves must be masked and in submission to the New System
They got us good this time and won’t be letting up. Likely until all First world countries are made bankrupt (topic of this blog).
Presto. New monetary system waiting in the wings?
The global rulers are playing the long game.
Incrementalism . Get to know its creep.

————

Or, maybe, it’s a global pandemic on a scale we haven’t experienced in our lifetimes. People need to be told how to act in order to protect ourselves and each other as very few have understanding or experience in the situation the world is currently in.

Of course, keep up with the nutty posts. They provide us with insight into conspiracy and crazy.”
——————————————

Nutty posts? You’re the queen of paranoia.

————

Ha. Because I don’t agree with your conspiracy sources of elitist takeover, I’m the paranoid one.

You’re hilarious.

#100 Trojan House on 07.26.20 at 9:44 pm

#67 D Tree on 07.26.20 at 6:42 pm

TSLA is only surviving because of people like you who don’t care about company fundamentals only hype. They are massively in debt and are hugely negative in the free cash flow department – in other words, they don’t have any money.

#101 T on 07.26.20 at 9:52 pm

#98 MF on 07.26.20 at 9:16 pm

I don’t see another total lockdown being viable either. I also don’t see it as entirely avoidable. There’s just too many selfish and ignorant people in the general public willing to risk the health of many because of some website or YouTube video the believe rather than fact and science.

#102 Re-Cowtown on 07.26.20 at 10:06 pm

#89 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 8:37 pm
#84 Re-Cowtown

What’s your thought on this project:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

I hope Daddy Trudeau stays in power for many years to come.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Grid scale storage systems will supply a miniscule amount of energy and massively increase the cost of power. The question is what do you think of $2000/month power bills?

Alberta is quietly dismantling much of the wind generation. Why? Uneconomic and the realization that they hurt the environment far more than help it.

Watch Michael Moore’s “Planet of the Humans” and get back to me on your view of renewables.

#103 The real Kip (Ret) on 07.26.20 at 10:06 pm

Just front run the Fed. No need to know anything else. Jerome has your back.

#104 Devil Anse on 07.26.20 at 10:06 pm

“Returning to the subject of Tesla, whose shares have surged around six-fold in the five years since Chanos began shorting the company. What is going on here? “I think Elon Musk has personified the hopes and dreams of this bull market,” he says, setting out his bear case against Tesla, which he sees as unprofitable, highly leveraged and facing increasing competition. Tesla “burnishes its results through aggressive accounting”, in his view. He also describes it as “a culture of deception” because it is selling self-driving to consumers, which as yet “doesn’t exist”.

https://www.ft.com/content/ccb46309-bba4-4fb7-b3fa-ecb17ea0e9cf

#105 OK, Doomer on 07.26.20 at 10:08 pm

It just dawned on me that the people tearing down statues and rioting are the same ones who just last year were eating Tide pods.

I wondered what the side effects would be.

#106 willworkforpickles on 07.26.20 at 10:22 pm

#56…binky barnes
Welcome to the days where evil is the new good and the good of old is shunned.

#107 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 10:23 pm

There a large park – Alexandra park – on Dundas Dt West in Toronto. There’s at least three dozen large new 6-person tents set up.
On CERB or the dole we’re taking 30-60000$ cash flow sitting there, each month, assuming 30 occupants. Likely more. One soft abode had stack of beer cases (24s) there. The spoils of victory in this war: the Crown Bankers are using the Crown Virus to take over the world. Is there anything it cannot do?

Once again a theory – not mine – is that the homeless are kept in sight as a warning to the middle classes. Keep quiet, play by the rules…or else. You end up there. Quite a tool of compliance.
And we are in the Compliance phase of this global rollout.

#108 BCWally on 07.26.20 at 10:30 pm

I wouldn’t worry about CERB fraud. I suspect the solution will be a beefed up CRA April 2021. Collected CERB? Red flag. The new traders need to worry about taxes for 2020 as well. That kind of activity is recorded. Hope they all did it in a TFSA….oh yeah you get busted for that kind of activity in there too by the CRA…oh well.
Hey isn’t this neat? Government hands out, CRA takes back, win next election. Everybody hates the CRA anyway.
The real issue? How to insure against the eventual correction and when. Its almost time to harvest for the institutional pros who have seen this before and this is a brand new herd. Party like its 1999.
Likely when the benefits run out north and south of the border and the new folks have no more money to throw in.
Be on the right side of that trade and now who really got the CERB?

#109 Faron on 07.26.20 at 10:45 pm

#96 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.26.20 at 9:06 pm

@84 Re-Cowtown:

D-uh! Everyone knows that like, ya know, the electricity comes from that thingy on the wall!

Cool thing thing I learned in HS econ: supply will rise to meet demand.

Another cool thing: capitalism rewards useful innovation — bigly.

Also, technically speaking, BC is 100 % solar powered and has been for decades. #HydrologicCycle.

Oh, hey BTW, check out Cameco.

A lite troll to finish the weekend.

#110 it cant happen here! on 07.26.20 at 10:45 pm

People should listen to interview with rebel media with the Cambridge MPP who just got the chop. Her constituents told her unanimously- we cant survive another lock down, vote no to 195. Ford can lock down anytime without debate for the next 2 years/ We, in ONtario are toast/ only hope is other MPPs bail out from the PC party and somehow bring down Ford, sorry to be a downer but Ford’s handlers want to screw us to the wall, that should be obvious,otherwish there is no need for 195 – that bill is all the proof you need theyre not even trying to pretend. All PC MPPS are traitors to democracy

#111 Long-Time Lurker on 07.26.20 at 10:56 pm

Re: Trading.

Losing money is effortless. Making money is hard work.

I never reveal my trades. I need someone to trade against.

I hope Elon Musk gets to walk on Mars.

The second wave is happening now in Europe.

#112 Long-Time Lurker on 07.26.20 at 10:58 pm

>Jair Bolsonaro, last update. Some quick videos: He’s looking to be in good health.

So, Killer-Covid can be beat. Just don’t wait for the WHO to declare it a pandemic… I mean cure (when applied early).

Brazil’s President Jair Bolsonaro tests negative for COVID-19 infection in the 4th test
Jul 25, 2020

Brazil’s President Jair Bolsonaro tested negative for COVID-19 infection in the 4th test. Earlier he tested positive for this test. Since then, he was in quarantine at the Alvorado Palace in Brasilia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN_L-c7DqBw

Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro tweets negative Covid-19 test
Jul 26, 2020

The Straits Times
Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro said on Saturday that he has tested negative for the novel coronavirus after weeks quarantined in his residence due to an infection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eYS7EguAp8

#113 dogman01 on 07.26.20 at 11:04 pm

We had a generation that had to put up with “Trickle Down economics”, AKA rebranding of “Horse and Sparrow”, we all knew it was a joke but plutocrats got to be plutocrats.

Now they are sending the money to the bottom, bravo for the willingness to not cater to the elites any longer. The monopoly game was pretty much won and were just lending money out to keep it going.

CERB has reduced “the reserve army of labour” that many poor employers have relied on. It is a nice change.

Now CERB need a bit of reform, as why dis-incentivize so decisively those making over $1000.00 .

Hopefully an inheritance tax on estates of $25 Million+, ending the unearned power and privilege of meritless “birth lottery”.

#114 TRON on 07.26.20 at 11:27 pm

How dare we question what young people are doing with the money the government is forking over to them. After all it’s not those with ‘balanced portfolios’ who will be paying it all back. These kids will have huge taxes for years so I say gamble on and ignore the old farts and their wisdom.

#115 Don Guillermo on 07.26.20 at 11:43 pm

#76 Steven Nicolle on 07.26.20 at 7:34 pm
My wife has 1 more CERB left of $1000 then that’s it. She is a waiter looking for work and been dropping off resumes. One place she applied to on Indeed has 102 applications. If they were hiring based on experience when she applied 2 weeks ago she should have been hired. So don’t tell us people do not want to work. Employers are saying no one wants to work but it goes both ways. It’s a breakfast waiter job and they need 102 applicants! C’mon. Then they will say they couldn’t find anyone. BS
***************************************

Why not use the CERB to send her to tech or trade school. She can make some good money and contribute to society … I know, math is hard.

#116 Bob Dog on 07.27.20 at 12:05 am

It’s been a while. Ive been enjoying the summer of Bob since being part of a tech RIF . I’ve been savouring the 2k per month I’ve been collecting and will continue to collect until it runs out.

Hey wasn’t there a blabbering tool on this blog predicting a housing market correction since like forever? I guess he was not aware of the corruption within the government he was once an integral part of.

Canadians are losers . Your politicians are puppets, your bankers are terrorists.

No Canadian born in the last 10 years will ever own a home or raise a family in this ridiculous excuse for a country

Get back to work people. My rent is due and I need to work on my tan.

#117 Riley Forge on 07.27.20 at 12:19 am

Wow so alot of people in whistler bc have actually done this and are against coming back to work as we are pretty busy at this point!
The work is available but no one is wanting to come back. This of course is including the foreigners on travelling visas that are getting CERB that they will never pay back any tax on after they disappear from the country!
Why are we paying foreigners cerb thay dont want to work.

#118 CERBNation on 07.27.20 at 12:31 am

A tinfoil hat for turnernation….

https://twitter.com/alexi_starr/status/1287412614662885379?s=19

#119 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 12:44 am

#82 MF on 07.26.20 at 8:02 pm
58 Sail Away on 07.26.20 at 5

Wrongo. I said investing is realitively easy with etfs and doesn’t take years of study (although it doesn’t hurt).

Stock picking =\ investing though !

—————

You must be aware that investing existed before ETFs, right?

#120 Dave on 07.27.20 at 12:55 am

Actually Tesla has been profitable the last four quarters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/tesla-posts-fourth-consecutive-quarterly-profit-defying-pandemic-shutdown-11595450752

#121 What can taxpayers do re ABUSE OF OUR $$$ ?!! on 07.27.20 at 2:21 am

Garth, there has GOT to be something that taxpayers can do about all this IRRESPONSIBLE MISMANAGEMENT of OUR money. You were in government. Please tell those of us reading about these wasteful giveaways how best to lobby the government/opposition/auditor general to GET THIS MONEY BACK!

CERB certainly should not have been extended. Kids living at home should never have even QUALIFIED! That would’ve been easily taken care of with upping the minimum age and earnings required to qualify.

Any more extension on mortgage deferrals will just add to house prices climbing when they should be coming down instead.

The NDPs are the worst. They’re the most vocal about calling for these payouts which are only exacerbating the stock market gambling and inflated house prices. Jagmeet said that he made the Libs change their intended $1k CERB to $2k at the start of it. Wasteful!

About the double dipping, I’ve read that the CRA will be recovering these by comparing SIN. That’s probably going to be an easy one for them so let’s hope that they do it.

#122 CERB: Australia vs Canada on 07.27.20 at 3:34 am

#41 Flop
Are we really comparing apples to apples? What are Australia‘s eligibility requirements? Did Aussie CERB really allow 15 year olds (living at home!) and minimum $5k gross earnings to qualify for what sounds like will be tens of thousands of taxpayers’ money?

#123 Captain Uppa on 07.27.20 at 6:57 am

Hey Gartho, gold seems to be everyone’s darling these days. I get multiple texts a week from friends about it who never talked about it before … EVER.

Buy high, sell low. Never fails. – Garth

#124 Howard on 07.27.20 at 7:13 am

#113 dogman01 on 07.26.20 at 11:04 pm
We had a generation that had to put up with “Trickle Down economics”, AKA rebranding of “Horse and Sparrow”, we all knew it was a joke but plutocrats got to be plutocrats.

Now they are sending the money to the bottom, bravo for the willingness to not cater to the elites any longer.

———————————-

But it’s not the elites who will pay for this. It is the middle class.

When will it be the turn of the middle class to be catered to?

Where the hell are the Conservatives? They have a golden opportunity to be the party of the taxpaying middle class. That was Stephen Harper’s message in 2006 when he appealed to people who “work hard and play by the rules”. Fewer of those individuals in the putrid immoral mess that Canada has become under Trudeau, but they are still electorally significant. They can easily weave the WE Cult controversy into that messaging.

#125 willworkforpickles on 07.27.20 at 7:14 am

Those who say the problems of now (not mentioning the tsunami of insurmountable problems building) current problems today, will fade either by diminishing effect or of society becoming hardened and increasingly tolerant to them as a result – and that society is going to normalize again after all of today’s ills…these are the real and greatest fools.

#126 Steven Rowlandson on 07.27.20 at 7:18 am

If $2000 a month is viewed as good pay for doing nothing then it is obvious that they were getting less for doing something. Strictly speaking $2,000 a month is late 1960s to early 1970 era pay and middle to low pay which barely allowed home ownership. Given the current cost of a roof over one’s head such pay today is insignificant to the point of genocide.

#127 Wrk.dover on 07.27.20 at 7:21 am

Good title for a post: Hope and Pray

Good lyrics too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKg_1mJqs5Q

#128 maxx on 07.27.20 at 7:26 am

#7 the Jaguar on 07.26.20 at 1:15 pm

“….As for young people using CERB payments to stoke the markets, maybe this is what the constant rant of some posters ( change or be run over by it ) is all about.”

Perhaps, however leading-edge Mills better buckle up as change is on its way. As they continue to join the ranks of middle age, they’ll need to embrace that fabled change or be totally run over by it.

By the time a plan like the one below is inevitably rolled out, Canadian style – Mills will be perfectly planted in that tax demographic…..maybe they can use the some of their Robinhood gambling proceeds to pay their “fair share”:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/26/uk-ministers-looking-at-plans-to-raise-taxes-for-over-40s-to-pay-for-social-care?utm_term=3357ce707f846255ef6ab4d8424662ea&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email

And much more to come.

Mills should beware of making the gargantuan fundamental mistake of assuming that the current pack at the rudder have their backs, like them or favor them. They don’t.

They aren’t like you, not even close. They are mostly rich, many extremely, hang with their own and definitely live a universe apart from most of the electorate. They want your vote, not your affection. They have power, you don’t.

Mills will embrace their change, not their own, so they had better win at the casino.

#129 Howard on 07.27.20 at 7:38 am

#61 Trojan House on 07.26.20 at 6:08 pm
What’s up with the millennial generation? The most entitled, spoiled, emotional generation perhaps in history. They would rather play video games than work and they’re always trying to make a quick buck the easiest way they can.

Now, before you millennials get your knickers in a knot, I know not all of you are like that – but you seem to the be few and far between. And it’s not really their fault anyway – it’s our fault, the parents. We helicoptered them and gave them participation medals. Oh well…

———————————

I take it you’re from the generation that received, through no effort of their own :
– dirt cheap housing
– dirt cheap (or free) university education
– decades of rising wages at or above inflation
– decades of government-sponsored real estate appreciation
– decades of central bank sponsored stock market and bond market appreciation
– massive expansion of the state dedicated mostly to coddling their own contemporaries at the expense of the young

It was like a massive 40-year participation medal handed to you by the Greatest Generation and then continued (and squandered) by Boomer-led governments that pulled up the drawbridge to everyone who arrive later.

Btw what’s wrong with trying to make a quick buck? Has all that entitlement made you a marxist?

#130 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 7:38 am

Tesla is an amazing company. So is SpaceX. Starlink has started Beta testing.

Ben Graham would not recommend investing based on his rules, nor would an early Warren Buffett. Charlie Munger, now: Charlie very well might invest for the cachet.

When Munger teamed with Buffett and began advising they invest on a ‘future worth’ basis is when Berkshire really took off.

#131 maxx on 07.27.20 at 7:51 am

#22 Linda on 07.26.20 at 2:24 pm

“….Also, since we apparently are now the land of government largesse for the financially strapped, what are the odds the government will next shower endless taxpayer cash upon the stock market gambling crowd? After all, it would only be ‘fair’ to bail them out, since we bailed out – well, come to think of it, is there anyone we haven’t bailed out by now?”

Excellent point – I can think of one group: how about those prudent types you speak of who lost billions in interest due to excessive use of the ultra-low interest rate “tool”?

Gubbmint can return that money any time……

#132 Howard on 07.27.20 at 8:01 am

#123 Captain Uppa on 07.27.20 at 6:57 am
Hey Gartho, gold seems to be everyone’s darling these days. I get multiple texts a week from friends about it who never talked about it before … EVER.

——————————-

I suspect the herd will be buying heavily into the miners this week. Robinhooders too. I plan to sell some of my shares to them in a few days. Not all of them, as there’s a chance gold could continue past $2000 before correcting.

#133 D tree on 07.27.20 at 8:02 am

@84 Re-Cowtown:

Where will all the electricity come from? Your grasp of energy production and energy density is juvenile and laughable. You probably believe that grid storage is a real thing, right?

Maybe you should run for PM. This country needs more drama majors to do electrical engineering for us.

———————————————————

Thank you for the PM vote Re-Cowtown but I’m hoping Julie Payette gets that job and makes Daddy cry.

The current grid can handle up to -20% EV penetration and then upgrades will have to be made (Nuclear + renewables). As I mentioned, keep an eye on what the UK is doing to their grid if you’re actually interested.

TSLA bull case has then growing to 20% penetration in the next 5-10 years.

#134 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.27.20 at 8:07 am

@#78 tbone
“Gets cold in the winter under the Gardner expressway.”
++++

Invest in cardboard or cardboard stocks.

#135 Steven Nicolle on 07.27.20 at 8:12 am

You guys who commented on #76 are obviously retired and been out of the work force a good many years so I will forgive you for being ignorant. First of all we do not live in the GTA so applying for construction jobs is farcical. That would be like a welder applying for a waiter job. The second comment she has looked into retraining but we are not empty nesters as we have two boys at home so a cut in pay to retrain and take once again a lower pay while training is out of question. The point of my post really was to underscore why some people stay at home to collect the CERB. Because when an employer says he or she cannot hire anyone you gotta ask are they hiring for a couple of shifts a week or maybe a job then when it’s done they are laid off again. It will be tough to find a job but she will get one. But the job market is not what you think it is out there. Business is slow. Except of course if you are an iron worker.

#136 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 8:29 am

#100 Trojan House on 07.26.20 at 9:44 pm

TSLA is only surviving because of people like you who don’t care about company fundamentals only hype. They are massively in debt and are hugely negative in the free cash flow department – in other words, they don’t have any money.

————————————-

TSLA stock appreciation actually makes it easier than ever for them to borrow money. I don’t mind a little share dilution if 1 billon builds an extra gigafactory. Tesla has aggressively lowered it’s capex per unit of production and will continue to do so for years to come.
Legacy auto makers are the ones who need to worry about debt: https://www.google.com/amp/s/auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/amp/news/industry/covid-19-impact-moodys-downgrades-130-billion-worth-of-automakers-debt/76728246

#137 Re-Cowtown on 07.27.20 at 8:37 am

#109 Faron on 07.26.20 at 10:45 pm
#96 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.26.20 at 9:06 pm

@84 Re-Cowtown:

D-uh! Everyone knows that like, ya know, the electricity comes from that thingy on the wall!

Cool thing thing I learned in HS econ: supply will rise to meet demand.

Another cool thing: capitalism rewards useful innovation — bigly.

Also, technically speaking, BC is 100 % solar powered and has been for decades. #HydrologicCycle.

Oh, hey BTW, check out Cameco.

A lite troll to finish the weekend.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If hydroelectric meets that definition of solar powered then coal, oil and gas do to. The difference is that the sun’s energy was captured and stored a bit longer before. As you say, it’s just a timing issue.

And tell the salmon that dammed rivers are A-OK. A few years ago BC pulled down part of a small hydroelectric dam near Campbell River to allow salmon a breeding access to a few extra miles of river. The result was a massive increase in the salmon population coming out of the Campbell River. If you asked the salmon I’m pretty sure that they would have preferred a nuclear plant or gas fired plant over the past 50 years.

No free lunch. Besides, virtually every river has already been dammed. Renewable hydro has hit the wall.

#138 TurnerNation on 07.27.20 at 9:00 am

#49 T how patronizing. That people don’t know how to take care of themselves without oppressive government.
Why’d they close the gyms and playgrounds but leave Liquor stores and Weed shops open? Still closed in my prefecture.
You nailed this: people must be taught how to behave under the New System tyranny that’s for sure. Submit submit submit. Attack others. Do nothing as your culture, small business and society is cancelled.
Freedom was an illusion now it has been dispensed with.

#139 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 9:12 am

#107 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 10:23 pm
There a large park – Alexandra park – on Dundas Dt West in Toronto. There’s at least three dozen large new 6-person tents set up.
On CERB or the dole we’re taking 30-60000$ cash flow sitting there, each month, assuming 30 occupants. Likely more. One soft abode had stack of beer cases (24s) there. The spoils of victory in this war: the Crown Bankers are using the Crown Virus to take over the world. Is there anything it cannot do?

Once again a theory – not mine – is that the homeless are kept in sight as a warning to the middle classes. Keep quiet, play by the rules…or else. You end up there. Quite a tool of compliance.
And we are in the Compliance phase of this global rollout

——

Don’t take this as a jab, because I enjoy reading your posts. I don’t fall in your camp, but I find it fascinating. You have lots of material here, you should really consider writing science fiction. Canada has lots of room in this field to support another writer.
You have some Gibson, Atwood, Sawyer themes going on in your posts. It’s hard to determine sincerity from sarcasm in text, but please consider this in the sincerity department. I would say the best science fiction stems from believable scenarios.

#140 $1 trillion debt, $80+ BILLION just from CERB! on 07.27.20 at 9:18 am

To #85 km and readers who know of CERB recipients who shouldn’t be getting it.

We taxpayers need to do something to reduce the largest debt in Canadian history, or it’ll be us savers who’ll bear this burden in the coming years.

It is time to report people who should not be getting the CERB to the CRA. Click here to find out the many ways to do it.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/programs/about-canada-revenue-agency-cra/suspected-tax-cheating-in-canada-information-include.html

Notwithstanding the ridiculously low threshold for qualifying for the CERB, (age 15, $5k gross earnings), here are some criteria that make someone ineligible:
1. Voluntarily quit job
2. Fail to go back to work when it is reasonable to do so, and their employer asks them to return
3. Fail to resume self-employment when it’s reasonable to do so
4. Decline a reasonable job offer when they are able to work
5. Negotiate with your employer to work less hours so that you can qualify for the $1,000-eligibility threshold
6. Earn more than $1k (undeclared/cash payment)

So, to #85 km re: people taking an unsanctioned, taxpayer-funded summer break (wasn’t the intent of CERB), to Ed whose daughter’s Filipino nanny quit to work for another family under the table while collecting CERB then EI, to posters who’ve talked about knowing people earning more than $1k under the table, etc., please report these CERB cheaters to CRA ASAP.

Pass this message on. Encourage people you know to report cheaters they know to CRA. If people know employers whose employees didn’t want to return to work or who negotiated reduced hours, tell those employers that they have a responsibility to report this to CRA ASAP, especially if they are benefiting from taxpayer-funded programs too.

So, to Chris from edm re: Bourbon St in WEM and industrial plant safety contractors who couldn’t get employees to take $20/hr safety cleaning jobs, to AM in MN re: the pizza shop owner who offered a $19/hr job to someone who ‘opted’ to stay on CERB, etc., help spread the word for these employers to report to CRA ASAP.

It’s not about being a snitch. It’s about being fair. It’s about doing our duty to ourselves, to our fellow taxpayers, to our (future) children, our (future) grandchildren, who’ll be saddled with paying in the billions for these cheaters.

#141 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 9:30 am

#136 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 8:29 am
#100 Trojan House on 07.26.20 at 9:44 pm

TSLA is only surviving because of people like you who don’t care about company fundamentals only hype. They are massively in debt and are hugely negative in the free cash flow department – in other words, they don’t have any money.

————————————-

TSLA stock appreciation actually makes it easier than ever for them to borrow money. I don’t mind a little share dilution if 1 billon builds an extra gigafactory. Tesla has aggressively lowered it’s capex per unit of production and will continue to do so for years to come.
Legacy auto makers are the ones who need to worry about debt:

—–

You are embarrassingly uninformed about the capacity of the auto industry if you believe they need are more than a passing worry about TSLA…

Toyota produced 8.9m units last year
GM – 7.7m
Ford – 6.4m
FCA – 4.3m

Tesla – 367,500

Tesla is exciting… I get that. The facility (which I had robot guys in) is neat, but terribly run in terms of an auto facility… For example Brampton Assembly works 2 shifts, 5-days and produces around 1200 cars per day, TSLA works three shifts. 7-days and is lucky to produce 1000 in the week…

Now, multiply Chrysler by 10 assembly facilities and you can see that Tesla is not nearly as big a concern as you may be lead to believe…

#142 Dharma Bum on 07.27.20 at 9:32 am

Don’t worry too much.

Sooner or later (hopefully sooner, but not likely), things will get back to normal.

Virus pogey will end. Deadbeats will be forced back to work (or starve). The minimum wage will stagnate as companies lobby the government that almost bankrupted them to freeze salaries so they can play catchup.

The elites will regroup and take advantage of the new normal.

Stocks will soar.

The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer.

The gap will widen even more.

Nothing really changes.

#143 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.27.20 at 9:33 am

@#133 D Tree
“The current grid can handle up to -20% EV penetration and then upgrades will have to be made (Nuclear + renewables).”
+++++

Nuclear?

When was the last time a nuclear power plant was built anywhere in Canada or the US? 30 years ago? 40?

Christ we cant even refurbish an existing oil pipeline let alone build a nuclear power plant without the Federal, provincial and municipal politicians stuttering in their politically correct double speak pointing in every direction but the mirror to blame someone, anyone but themselves…

Nuclear power…..pfffft …….keep dreaming.

#144 Don Guillermo on 07.27.20 at 9:36 am

#84 Re-Cowtown on 07.26.20 at 8:12 pm
#67 D Tree on 07.26.20 at 6:42 pm
Future millennial millionaire here.

Garth – Big fan but you and the commenters here have really misunderstood TSLA. Electrification is a real and rising tide. Technology and production improvements are <12 months away from flipping heavily in favor of EVs.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Where will all the electricity come from? Your grasp of energy production and energy density is juvenile and laughable. You probably believe that grid storage is a real thing, right?

Maybe you should run for PM. This country needs more drama majors to do electrical engineering for us

*****************************************
Here's an interesting article on what it would take to reach zero CO2 emissions by 2050.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/09/30/net-zero-carbon-dioxide-emissions-by-2050

"Net-Zero Carbon Dioxide Emissions By 2050 Requires A New Nuclear Power Plant Every Day"

#145 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 9:40 am

TSLA works three shifts, 7-days and is lucky to produce 1000 per day

Sorry, I got jumbled up when I was editting… Phones suck for writing anything more than a sentence…

#146 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.27.20 at 9:45 am

@#137 Re Cowtown

“A few years ago BC pulled down part of a small hydroelectric dam near Campbell River to allow salmon a breeding access to a few extra miles of river. ”

++++

Actually they were worried the dam was unstable and might fail and take out part of the town.
.
A lot of those old dams up and down the coast of BC and Van Isle are 70, 80 and almost 100 years old and the original owners looooooong gone.

The Dams ( plural) above Brittannia Beach on the way to Whistler come to mind.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2186854/six-dams-at-old-britannia-mine-to-be-cleaned-up/

There are abandoned dams all up and down the coast that the govt is well aware of and monitoring.
Most in unpopulated areas.

But it isnt just man made dams that block salmon

Then we have natural rock slides that block salmon runs…..like the mighty Fraser river and the multi ton slide a year ago….

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-many-chinook-sockeye-salmon-now-passing-fraser-river-slide-on-their/#:~:text=Many%20salmon%20now%20getting%20past%20Fraser%20River%20rock%20slide%20swimmingly%2C%20officials%20say,-LILLOOET%2C%20B.C.&text=A%20statement%20from%20the%20management,swimming%20through%20the%20landslide%20unaided.

#147 Flop... on 07.27.20 at 9:48 am

#135 Steven Nicolle on 07.27.20 at 8:12 am
You guys who commented on #76 are obviously retired and been out of the work force a good many years so I will forgive you for being ignorant.

///////////////

I made a genuine attempt to help.

If you read my post again I said construction cleaning.

The scope of the work is largely detailing kitchen and bathroom cupboards, removing tape and labels, swiffering and vacuuming.

Sometimes they do the interior of windows with a guy doing the exterior ones because of the heavy lifting of extension ladders.

The ladies I work with are never more than 2 or 3 feet in the air but spend most of the day on the ground.

They do approximately 2 houses a week, post construction cleaning is slightly different.

Anyway, not the response I was expecting, but I tried, good luck…

M46BC

#148 it cant happen here! on 07.27.20 at 10:00 am

Ontario is finished. Here is the link to the interview with former PC MPP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=25&v=1xwcBxAFeJM&feature=emb_log

Read the YouTube comments, no one supports Ford or bill 195, no one. Remember FordNation? Mr Populist?
Ontario is open for business? We are toast/
I dont even like rebal media, but the MSM ignored 195 completely, they want the lock down to be permanent

#149 Brett in Calgary on 07.27.20 at 10:01 am

A sure sign it’s just about over for gold. When the boy shining your shoes tells you what penny stocks to buy…

==========================
#123 Captain Uppa on 07.27.20 at 6:57 am

Hey Gartho, gold seems to be everyone’s darling these days. I get multiple texts a week from friends about it who never talked about it before … EVER.

Buy high, sell low. Never fails. – Garth

#150 the Jaguar on 07.27.20 at 10:05 am

@ #107 TurnerNation on 07.26.20 at 10:23 pm

Link below is a podcast, British Interviewer with Andy Ngo a journalist beaten up by AntiFa in Portland, which is interesting especially from the perspective of current events south of the border. Recorded in August 2019.
Demonstrates that the only way to get to the bottom of any of what is going on is follow the money, follow the money, follow the money. Too bad investigative journalism appears to be dead.

https://delingpole.podbean.com/e/andy-ngo/

#151 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.27.20 at 10:10 am

After all the hype, EV’s are still just about 1% of all registered vehicle in BC.
—————

https://theprovince.com/news/exponential-growth-in-electric-vehicle-sales-in-british-columbia-says-local-advocate/wcm/ae4a23c5-52bd-4393-9f69-ac59ee491c8e

#152 Victor V on 07.27.20 at 10:12 am

Real estate optimism sparks new life into Canadian consumers

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/real-estate-optimism-sparks-new-life-into-canadian-consumers-1.1471265

#153 BillyBob on 07.27.20 at 10:18 am

#109 Faron on 07.26.20 at 10:45 pm
#96 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.26.20 at 9:06 pm

@84 Re-Cowtown:

D-uh! Everyone knows that like, ya know, the electricity comes from that thingy on the wall!

Cool thing thing I learned in HS econ: supply will rise to meet demand.

Another cool thing: capitalism rewards useful innovation — bigly.

Also, technically speaking, BC is 100 % solar powered and has been for decades. #HydrologicCycle.

——————————————————————————-

Kind of an odd troll when it’s so easily set right.

Hydroelectric power comes from water-driven turbines. Solar energy comes from solar panels. Is your confusion real or part of the troll?

BC is definitely not 100% powered by either. If it were they wouldn’t need to keep natural gas-fired turbines idling 24/7 to make sure you can always charge your iPhone.

ICE to EV only displaces energy use, it doesn’t reduce it. Relatively few places in the world even have hydroelectric power available. And before you get too smug about BC’s geographical good fortune, as mentioned it doesn’t have remotely the capacity or potential capacity to supplant fossil fuel as the energy source for total EV replacement of ICE.

Not to mention neither EV manufacture nor dam construction are hardly environmentally cost-neutral…

People need to Google “calorific value of energy” to understand why there is currently no viable replacement for fossil fuels, the closest being nuclear and NUCLEAR: BAD. You may be correct about economic laws but they can’t trump scientific ones.

Musk is a showman not an alchemist.

#154 Gravy Train on 07.27.20 at 10:19 am

#115 Don Guillermo on 07.26.20 at 11:43 pm
“Why not use the CERB to send [Steven Nicolle‘ wife] to tech or trade school? She can make some good money and contribute to society … I know, math is hard.” Not everyone is cut out to be a mechanic, welder, electrician, plumber, etc. There are over 12,000 jobs and careers out there, but only six types of people to do them. For a description of these six types, read up on the Holland Codes!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_Codes
https://www.onetonline.org/find/descriptor/browse/Interests/
https://www.mynextmove.org/explore/ip

You are more likely to do well in an occupation if you enjoy what you’re doing. Go figure! People who do best in technical or trade schools are those with the realistic personality type.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland_Codes#R:_Realistic_(Doers)
https://www.onetonline.org/explore/interests/Realistic/

#155 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 10:24 am

#141 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 9:30 am

You are embarrassingly uninformed about the capacity of the auto industry if you believe they need are more than a passing worry about TSLA…

Toyota produced 8.9m units last year
GM – 7.7m
Ford – 6.4m
FCA – 4.3m

Tesla – 367,500

Tesla is exciting… I get that. The facility (which I had robot guys in) is neat, but terribly run in terms of an auto facility… For example Brampton Assembly works 2 shifts, 5-days and produces around 1200 cars per day, TSLA works three shifts. 7-days and is lucky to produce 1000 in the week…

Now, multiply Chrysler by 10 assembly facilities and you can see that Tesla is not nearly as big a concern as you may be lead to believe…

————————————————————-

ImGonnaBeSick – It sounds like you have some industry knowledge. I respect that and would love to have a real discussion. Do you have an opinion on how full body casting would impact Tesla’s production opex? They just started rear body casting in the Fremont facility for model Y but are hinting that their patented full body caster will be operational at GigaBerlin.

#156 Re-Cowtown on 07.27.20 at 10:33 am

#146 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.27.20 at 9:45 am
@#137 Re Cowtown

“A few years ago BC pulled down part of a small hydroelectric dam near Campbell River to allow salmon a breeding access to a few extra miles of river. ”

++++

Actually they were worried the dam was unstable and might fail and take out part of the town.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And the humpys start running in the Campbell River in a week or so and I’m stuck here in Cowtown **sigh**

#157 Faron on 07.27.20 at 10:34 am

#137 Re-Cowtown on 07.27.20 at 8:37 am

If hydroelectric meets that definition of solar powered then coal, oil and gas do to. The difference is that the sun’s energy was captured and stored a bit longer before. As you say, it’s just a timing issue.

And tell the salmon that dammed rivers are A-OK. A few years ago BC pulled down part of a small hydroelectric dam near Campbell River to allow salmon a breeding access to a few extra miles of river. The result was a massive increase in the salmon population coming out of the Campbell River. If you asked the salmon I’m pretty sure that they would have preferred a nuclear plant or gas fired plant over the past 50 years.

No free lunch. Besides, virtually every river has already been dammed. Renewable hydro has hit the wall.

First, my original point was that claiming that the grid can’t support mass increased electrification is narrowminded. This is a technological problem that can and will be solved as demand for electricity grows and to the solvers will come the spoils.

Oil/gas/coal are old technologies undergoing refinement (no pun intended). They are good technologies that have enabled unfathomable advancement, but their time is passing and will pass.

The collateral damage from burning oil/gas/coal is massive and completely ignored as an external cost making the fuels far far too cheap.

Regarding salmon + dams, how are the Fraser runs doing? Maybe warmer spawning source waters has something to do with it? Oh, you mean venting gigatons of CO2 also kills salmon through increased water temperatures that decrease available oxygen and increase parasite loads among other impacts?

There is no free lunch. 7.7billion humans will have an impact. Crapping our atmospheric bed is a huge one and has multiplicative effects that other activities don’t suffer from.

#158 the Jaguar on 07.27.20 at 10:52 am

Re: #153 BillyBob on 07.27.20 at 10:18 am

‘Musk is a showman not an alchemist.’

Explains his devoted fans very well.

#159 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 10:54 am

#155 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 10:24 am
#141 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 9:30 am

You are embarrassingly uninformed about the capacity of the auto industry if you believe they need are more than a passing worry about TSLA…

Toyota produced 8.9m units last year
GM – 7.7m
Ford – 6.4m
FCA – 4.3m

Tesla – 367,500

Tesla is exciting… I get that. The facility (which I had robot guys in) is neat, but terribly run in terms of an auto facility…

Now, multiply Chrysler by 10 assembly facilities and you can see that Tesla is not nearly as big a concern as you may be lead to believe…

——————

Sure, those new-fangled mobile phones are exciting, but they’ll never catch on.

Heck, we make 50 times the number of phones they do!

Fuggedaboutit.

#160 SunShowers on 07.27.20 at 10:56 am

Wow, so many people filling their diapers over the idea of UBI.

If you’re upset about the prospect of people getting money without actually doing any work to earn it, wait until you hear about this wacky new thing called passive investment income.

Income on money people have earned and paid taxes on, and now put at risk, does not exactly equate to funds the government gives you for… existing. – Garth

#161 Steven Nicolle on 07.27.20 at 10:58 am

Sorry it wasn’t the response you wanted. Thanks for your kind wishes in any case.

#162 Faron on 07.27.20 at 11:01 am

#150 BillyBob on 07.27.20 at 10:18 am

#109 Faron on 07.26.20 at 10:45 pm
#96 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.26.20 at 9:06 pm

@84 Re-Cowtown:

Kind of an odd troll when it’s so easily set right.

Hydroelectric power comes from water-driven turbines. Solar energy comes from solar panels. Is your confusion real or part of the troll?

BC is definitely not 100% powered by either. If it were they wouldn’t need to keep natural gas-fired turbines idling 24/7 to make sure you can always charge your iPhone.

ICE to EV only displaces energy use, it doesn’t reduce it. Relatively few places in the world even have hydroelectric power available. And before you get too smug about BC’s geographical good fortune, as mentioned it doesn’t have remotely the capacity or potential capacity to supplant fossil fuel as the energy source for total EV replacement of ICE.

Not to mention neither EV manufacture nor dam construction are hardly environmentally cost-neutral…

People need to Google “calorific value of energy” to understand why there is currently no viable replacement for fossil fuels, the closest being nuclear and NUCLEAR: BAD. You may be correct about economic laws but they can’t trump scientific ones.

Musk is a showman not an alchemist.

Point of the troll was to get people to talk by setting up some straw men. Thanks for participating.

First, this :

“ICE to EV only displaces energy use, it doesn’t reduce it.”

Kind of true. Except, the efficiency of heat engines is governed by thermodynamic law and aint great. A kW delivered to an electric engine will give you more momentum than a kW of petrol delivered to a heat engine full stop. So, EV actually is more efficient and will reduce net global energy use. Look up MPGE for electric vehicles. See that number? Yeah, that’s what happens when you don’t use fire to make car go. Oog.

Most importantly, there are viable replacements for O+G derived energy and where there aren’t yet, there will be. For the love of god, our planet is, more or less, still run on steam. Maybe we should consider leaving the 19th century for cripes sake?

Furthermore, without the endless subsidization of the O+G industry, there would be a hell of a lot more funds for R+D. I’m no fan of Elon Musk, but I’ll hand it to Tesla that they are attracting massive capital for R+D and that will certainly help lead us out of our crude energy systems. They are following the tech industry principles of failing forward and moving fast and breaking things. Doing so looks like crap for a while then, suddenly, they are doing things that appear alchemical and everyone will be trying to keep up.

The hydrological cycle is driven by the sun and is renewable at time scales of a year to, at most, 20 years given interdecadal climate fluctuation. BC is 95% hydro. Sure, there are other plants and BC is tied to the US grid where electricity of varying progenies is sold on an openish market. But it’s mostly hydro.

The sum total of O+G good, EV bad arguments are that, because the network/infrastructure doesn’t yet exist, we shouldn’t try to build it or allow it to be developed.

Yes, I know that you need mountains for such things. But, the prairies are mighty windy… And sunny. Oh, and look at all that uranium in Sask. That stuff is cool. Germany, an industrial powerhouse, is up to 25% wind powered.

#163 JB on 07.27.20 at 11:11 am

#25 Camille on 07.26.20 at 2:47 pm

You can’t be serious linking Robinhood and a condo purchase? Is the 20x leverage reference a false analogy to a stock P/E ratio to make a point. Is a condo purchase gambling?
Yoda says “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering”.
…………………………………………………………………..
A condo purchase today is definitely a gamble. Buy today at $XXXk and sell tomorrow at $XXXk – XX%
They are due for a hefty trim.

#164 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.27.20 at 11:25 am

@#160 SunShowers
“….if you’re upset about the prospect of people getting money without actually doing any work to earn it, wait until you hear about this wacky new thing called passive investment income….”

++++

You’ve been out in the sun too long.

#165 YouKnowWho on 07.27.20 at 11:31 am

Let’s take a collection and buy this $1M Toronto home together.

We’ll hold meetings in it. Garth will be a speaker twice a year. He can speak from the throne, which ensures social distancing through a tight squeeze.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-toronto-house-just-hit-the-market-for-1-million-1.5040276

#166 conan on 07.27.20 at 11:34 am

5. Negotiate with your employer to work less hours so that you can qualify for the $1,000-eligibility threshold.-crowdedelevatorfartz

Exhibit A why CERB, as it works now, is in its final month this August.

#167 RyYYZ on 07.27.20 at 11:40 am

#59 604millenenial on 07.26.20 at 5:57 pm
#50 tbone: It’s not about “status” or “obtaining some sort of wealth” – it’s enjoying life without the stresses of the status you seem so eager to achieve. You’ll die at 45 from stress and our generation will live to 90 very happily.
===================================

Newsflash: somebody has to do something productive to produce the revenue to allow you to sit on your ass an do nothing for the money. You are a leech, nothing more.

#168 Yukon Elvis on 07.27.20 at 11:41 am

Income on money people have earned and paid taxes on, and now put at risk, does not exactly equate to funds the government gives you for… existing. – Garth
…………………………….

Well said. The free funds that the government gives them for…existing…. are funds that came from tax dollars paid on said passive investments. Some people are just clueless.

#169 Lake Lover on 07.27.20 at 11:41 am

Every time I read the comments I could write a response to something. However I would like to comment on just one item – UBI. The concept is great – assist those who through no fault of their own (disease, injury, mental health, etc.) cannot find a job which will pay them enough to survive. However there are a number of problems I can see.
The first is “what is a living wage for doing nothing?” Everyone seems to have a different idea depending on where they chose to live.
Next, we live in an area where the common thread seems to be to avoid paying any tax on your efforts by working for cash. Giving someone who makes a very good living by only being paid in cash the additional dollars of government assistance is quite frankly akin to criminal. Nail salons, handymen, etc. are only a couple of examples – there are many more. Use CRA to go after tax cheats rather than honest people who make a minor mistake and I could support a program like UBI.

#170 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 11:58 am

ImGonnaBeSick – It sounds like you have some industry knowledge. I respect that and would love to have a real discussion. Do you have an opinion on how full body casting would impact Tesla’s production opex? They just started rear body casting in the Fremont facility for model Y but are hinting that their patented full body caster will be operational at GigaBerlin.

—-

We’ll see, I know when we moved to full cast apertures for body-on-frame, and then unibody, it allowed quite a bit more automation of the vehicles (which is good for quality). But traditional auto is a 7 year cycle, with 3.5 year model refresh, so it’ll be some time before we get to implement a system like this.

The exploded vehicle concept was to break the process down to 40-45s increments. Where 40s is not possible, we usually twin the system. It all requires a lot of physical realestate, but results in a tremendous amount of vehicles, at very high quality. If full body casting is able to be done in 40s, it would reduce the physical footprint of a plant – but we’ve already reduced the footprint of respot lines substantially, and the major assemblies of body are relatively small (1 cell, usually with a lead in and an exiting station). I’m more excited about carbon fiber baking and more recently (like last 10-15 years) laser welding and brazing. Aluminum was a big deal around 7 years ago – but requires a lot of rivetting. Roller hemming was also a big deal.

As far as capital expenditure, I can’t say. On one hand, Tesla would reduce the number of cells required to create a car, since it would likely remove the inner-body, possibly roof bow, maybe parts of the engine cradle any systems required to handle the geometry of these parts, and any respot lines required for this. But it would still require an underbody, a dash, a class A outerbody and load, a framer, a roof load, door lines, hood, lift gate, pierce lines, etc. Now having a single framed inner body, something like this could be pushed onto a Tier 1 supplier like one of the Magnas or Flex N’ Gates, Gestamp…. and come into the facility as a fully assembled inner body. If I were Tesla and if I had to do any body work, I’d prefer just to skin it too. I would actually prefer to just do final assembly – since that’s really what they’re selling.

I know it’s a running joke about quality of vehicles, but vehicle bodies nowadays go through a tremendous amount of quality checks and computerized measurement (something that Tesla does not really care about if you ever start looking at actual metal fit). The lower and upper geo of an inner-body is very important – I honestly can’t say if casting as a single body would make this easier or more difficult. If you ever get the chance to see what an actual Framer looks like, you will understand the amount of effort that’s required to hold a vehicle in geo.

Now, I don’t want to knock around Tesla too much, it’s growing pangs mostly. Elon is a pretty incredible person. He’s not one to say – “well this is how it’s always been done, so let’s continue doing it that way”. He is one of these people that takes the ideas that get thrown around and says, “yeah, why don’t we try that?”. He isn’t scared to drop the millions of dollars on an idea. Which is very cool!

PS. There’s also reinforcement, baffles, wiring harnesses, IP panels, hinge to body, etc. So these will still need to be added via assembly line. That being said, I’ll be more than happy to build and program the system for Elon :). It’d be fun.

#171 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.27.20 at 12:02 pm

@#166 Conan the Barbarian
” Negotiate with your employer to work less hours so that you can qualify for the $1,000-eligibility threshold.-crowdedelevatorfartz”

+++++

Pray tell , when did you invent this passage attributed to me?

#172 SunShowers on 07.27.20 at 12:13 pm

Income on money people have earned and paid taxes on, and now put at risk, does not exactly equate to funds the government gives you for… existing. – Garth

—-

Doesn’t really change the fact that you’re being paid for doing nothing. Simply owning assets isn’t work, whether physical (sorry, landlords) or financial. Nor is “risking money” work (is going to the casino a job?)

Now, there’s nothing NECESSARILY wrong with wanting money for doing nothing, but too many conservatives have deluded themselves into thinking they’re self-made and earned every penny with their own two hands while collecting passive investment income and OAS.

Just like speaking a foreign language, getting money for doing nothing is considered classy if you’re rich, but trashy if you’re poor.

And of course any forthcoming UBI scheme would be taxed (just like CERB).

Just admit you’re a commie. Quicker. – Garth

#173 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 12:14 pm

#159 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 10:54 am

——————

Sure, those new-fangled mobile phones are exciting, but they’ll never catch on.

Heck, we make 50 times the number of phones they do!

Fuggedaboutit.

——————————————

You sound like a Nokia/Blackberry salesman in 2007.

I’m not debating who can produce more cars. I’m arguing that traditional automakers are really good at producing cars that nobody will want in 2 years. They are also too bogged down with legacy processes, parts suppliers, unions, debt, executive quarterly performance objectives, dealer networks, etc. to change their trajectory.

#174 Damifino on 07.27.20 at 12:21 pm

#159 Sail Away

Sure, those new-fangled mobile phones are exciting, but they’ll never catch on.
—————————–

I got a Samsung Galaxy S10 a while back. It’s a fabulous phone, no question. It was a huge upgrade from the old LG I was using for the previous 8 years.

The S10 takes awesome pictures, day or night, but there’s not much I feel like photographing (or videoing) these days.

The S10 is better at both voice and text, but there’s only a handful of people I ever text and those conversations are typically few and far between. As far as voice I much prefer the clarity and natural comfort of a land line.

The S10 connects to the internet like dream and is very fast and responsive, but still I much prefer my dual monitor PC to do practically anything online.

There’s thousands of apps available to me but I find most of them boring and their free versions to be lacking. (Well, of course they are, what’s really free?)

That merely scratches the surface. I am deeply impressed by the technology of my new phone. But generally, it remains strapped to my side in a holster and I typical do little with it.

I’m guessing that if I traded my Ford Escape in on a Tesla I’d have the same kinds of things to say. New technologies are deeply impressive and yet somehow they fail to inspire on a deeper level. Maybe you’ll understand when you get older…. much older.

#175 conan on 07.27.20 at 12:37 pm

Pray tell , when did you invent this passage attributed to me?–crowdedelevatorfartz”

———–
My bad , a thousand pardons, and may the air always be fresh on your elevator.

I should have attributed it to this poster.

$1 trillion debt, $80+ BILLION just from CERB!

#176 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 12:39 pm

#159 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 10:54 am

Sure, those new-fangled mobile phones are exciting, but they’ll never catch on.

Heck, we make 50 times the number of phones they do!

Fuggedaboutit

—-

Yeah, I get it. But a car is infinitely more complicated than a phone.. a phone is software, with off the shelf parts. Cars have assembly, Tier 1, Tier 2 facilities and thousands of custom parts.

My point is, if the other car companies need to produce an EV they have more capacity to switch over. In fact we’re making an EVs right now, trucks, cars, van… We could switch several plants over in a single life cycle, maybe half life cycle if that’s what the big 3 decide they want. 2 years of development and design, and a new body shop pumping out 9000 cars a week at launch… If you don’t think it’s being proposed and shutdown on a regular basis, you’re wrong.

#177 BillyBob on 07.27.20 at 12:49 pm

@Faron,

I feel a bit dirty getting drawn back into these discussions, but you make it tough by contradicting yourself.

Yes, “a kW delivered to an electric engine will give you more momentum than a kW of petrol delivered to a heat engine full stop.” I’m quite familiar with most common engine types with a predilection to turbines that burn Jet A. I have never tried to claim an ICE is more efficient than an electric motor for motive power. Electric motors absolutely do have major advantages over gas engines when it is practical to use them. But, an ICE-powered vehicle still has the clear advantage of being able to carry far more potential energy vs. weight with it than even the very best battery tech. Hopefully that will change one day but it will take a quantum leap from here.

As so many EV enthusiasts tend to gloss over – those “delivered kW’s” come from somewhere. Wind, solar, and hydroelectric in places other than outliers like BC, cannot replace fossil fuels for the calorific energy it contains – and that’s present day. If there were wide-spread adoption I think you may be underestimating the scale of what needs to happen in terms of either embracing some form of nuclear, or hoping some new “clean” source comes along. The efficiencies of electric motors would mitigate somewhat but not remotely make up for the shortfall of energy requirements.

And that’s just for recharging. Then there’s the energy for manufacturing – not just to build the new as-yet-undiscovered energy facilities, or for mining all the toxic rare earth materials needed for the batteries, or the cars themselves, but the vast new infrastructure upgrades required to deliver the energy. The economics that looked so good at the Tesla dealership begin to buckle.

The comparison to cell phones is a false equivalency. I’m not saying EV’s will never replace ICE vehicles, quite the contrary. I never said that because something is difficult or expensive it shouldn’t happen or won’t. But in the real world, economics and difficulty kind of have to be considered.

You admit that there are not yet alternatives to replace O&G, but “there will be”. Based on what? They’re going to replace the entire world’s automotive system based on a hope something will come along? Hope is not a plan.

When I take out the hype, the environmental dogma, the political agendas, and consider economics and the current state of energy technology worldwide, I don’t see the net equation favouring EV adoption as fast as you might think.

As you say yourself, there is no free lunch. It’s particularly true in thermodynamics.

#178 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 12:58 pm

#176 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 12:39 pm
#159 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 10:54 am

Sure, those new-fangled mobile phones are exciting, but they’ll never catch on.

Heck, we make 50 times the number of phones they do!

Fuggedaboutit

————–

Yeah, I get it. But a car is infinitely more complicated than a phone..

————–

Maybe…

But a spaceship is even more infinitely complicated than a car and our hero Elon has completely disrupted that industry.

Don’t bet on EV, bet on Elon.

#179 maxx on 07.27.20 at 12:59 pm

@ #46

Agree. Trickle-down economics: the only locus in the known universe where gravity doesn’t apply.

Too. Much. Greed.

#180 SunShowers on 07.27.20 at 1:12 pm

Just admit you’re a commie. Quicker. – Garth

————–

I wasn’t really trying to hide it, but nobody ever asked!

But if you want to get specific about it, I consider myself a Market Socialist, with some non-market exceptions for essential services (either government single payer or a public option).

I wouldn’t consider myself a Communist, because I don’t advocate for the abolition of currency or the state as a whole.

Did you come to this knuckle-dragging blog for re-education? – Garth

#181 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 1:13 pm

#173 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 12:14 pm

You sound like a Nokia/Blackberry salesman in 2007.

I’m not debating who can produce more cars. I’m arguing that traditional automakers are really good at producing cars that nobody will want in 2 years. They are also too bogged down with legacy processes, parts suppliers, unions, debt, executive quarterly performance objectives, dealer networks, etc. to change their trajectory.

——-

From the outside looking in – I see a lot of Tesla shareholders feel that Tesla has disruptive technology, it doesn’t, but Lord knows Elon is trying. Elon’s disruptive technology is not the actual vehicle, or the processes of making the vehicle. These are just a means of distributing what he really wants, and that is autonomous vehicles. Likely stems from living in California traffic jams.

Moving over to an EV isn’t even as hard as getting an entire new body shop, we could literally retrofit the current models to toss batteries and a EV motor in them. Personally, I don’t really think it’s about elecitric vehicles, at least not totally. An EV is off the shelf items, it’s incredibly hard to make an ICE engine. Elon made it cool, but it was the easiest method to move his real plan moving.

Listing “legacy processes, parts suppliers, unions, debt, executive quarterly performance objectives, dealer networks, etc.” as a detriment instead of 100 years of evolution of trial and error and streamlining, is mostly naive (there’s a couple in there I’d agree with..)

#182 Barb on 07.27.20 at 1:17 pm

“So a quarter million people received double CERB payments, amounting to $442 million.”

—————————————-

Sounds as though the Phoenix pay system folks are administering CERB.

#183 Tales from the hood on 07.27.20 at 1:23 pm

My wife and I went to a hair salon today. The place, pre-COVID-19 had up to four people working there and up to six clients. Now the salon is limited to a maximum of one customer per stylist. All well and good.

The young lady who cut my hair said that she is a new hire because three of the previous workers up and quit. They were quite open about why they quit: they could net higher salaries by taking CERB and cutting hair privately (and I assume for cash only). I did not talk to the owner but I can only assume it must have been a slap in the face to have her employees leave her in the lurch. All of those ex-stylists must have had good working relationships with their clients and no doubt they may have taken them away from the salon owner.

When the dust settles, and CERB ends as it must, there is going to be a very interesting time in the service industry. I have to believe that business owners are going to be very reluctant to take back unfaithful employees, and they will also be unwilling to provide a reference. What can they say? This former employee, spawn of Satan, left me in the lurch and stole clients. They did have a great eye for colour though!

#184 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 1:37 pm

#178 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 12:58 pm

Don’t bet on EV, bet on Elon.

—-

That, sir, has proven to be an effective strategy!

#185 YouKnowWho on 07.27.20 at 1:41 pm

Gotta tell you Garth and SunShowers, I’m enjoying your exchange.

“Just like speaking a foreign language, getting money for doing nothing is considered classy if you’re rich, but trashy if you’re poor.”

I think above was a very solid upper-cut by SunShowers, and as the response was name calling in jest, I have the score at…
SunShowers 1:0 Garth

Let me offer a distraction from this epic battle, which I’d like to see continue for a few rounds, but not sure it will, so….

First Dog got the Covid, now a fur ball!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/pet-cat-diagnosed-with-covid-19-uk-government-confirms

How long before humans get Covid from animals? Place your bets.

#186 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 1:50 pm

#170 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 11:58 am

Thank you for the in depth analysis. Lots of food for thought.

I think Tesla’s continuous integration design style is why they are not working with tier 1 suppliers. Next years model Y will look very different internally than this years model. Elon often talks about how the factory is their most important product.

Someone in your position may be interested in the Munro & Associates followup report from Model 3 to Model Y. They did a complete tear down to the welds. I watched all 42 videos before doubling my investment in TSLA. Here is the summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOrrdqje9Og&list=PLkiDlGyJnprdFftxAZ85a5Rp1LlET4Wbr&index=42. Keep in mind that all of these updates happened in a year.

Tesla is hiring automation engineers like crazy all over the world if you are interesed :) https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/careers/job/automation-controlsengineer-45086

#187 Stoph on 07.27.20 at 2:05 pm

#183 Tales from the hood on 07.27.20 at 1:23 pm
My wife and I went to a hair salon today. The place, pre-COVID-19 had up to four people working there and up to six clients. Now the salon is limited to a maximum of one customer per stylist. All well and good.

The young lady who cut my hair said that she is a new hire because three of the previous workers up and quit. They were quite open about why they quit: they could net higher salaries by taking CERB and cutting hair privately (and I assume for cash only). I did not talk to the owner but I can only assume it must have been a slap in the face to have her employees leave her in the lurch. All of those ex-stylists must have had good working relationships with their clients and no doubt they may have taken them away from the salon owner.

When the dust settles, and CERB ends as it must, there is going to be a very interesting time in the service industry. I have to believe that business owners are going to be very reluctant to take back unfaithful employees, and they will also be unwilling to provide a reference. What can they say? This former employee, spawn of Satan, left me in the lurch and stole clients. They did have a great eye for colour though!

—————————————————————–

Hmmm. I don’t condone people working under the table or collecting CERB if they don’t qualify, but it sounds like some people took the advice to start their own business if they are unhappy with their current pay… if only this blog’s readers who are unhappy with their pay would take the same initiative.

As for the salon’s owners, hopefully they’ll find a way to continue to deliver good value to their clients.

#188 Faron on 07.27.20 at 2:30 pm

#177 BillyBob on 07.27.20 at 12:49 pm

@Faron,

I feel a bit dirty getting drawn back into these discussions, but you make it tough by contradicting yourself.

Likewise. I can agree to be respectful and I apologize for my tone earlier. However, I haven’t contradicted myself.

An ICE-powered vehicle still has the clear advantage of being able to carry far more potential energy vs. weight with it than even the very best battery tech. Hopefully that will change one day but it will take a quantum leap from here.

Agreed except the quantum leap part. Battery tech/energy storage is the holy grail for EV or an entire new infrastructure needs to be build for hydrogen. I don’t see the latter happening on any large scale, but it’s not impossible and probably will happen for corp fleets. And for jets, yeah, gonna need hydrocarbons of some kind. Aviation is a big problem when it comes to emissions and potentially reducing them. Even so, work is being done on plant-based diesels. Again, innovation and growth.

As so many EV enthusiasts tend to gloss over – those “delivered kW’s” come from somewhere. Wind, solar, and hydroelectric in places other than outliers like BC, cannot replace fossil fuels for the calorific energy it contains – and that’s present day. If there were wide-spread adoption I think you may be underestimating the scale of what needs to happen in terms of either embracing some form of nuclear, or hoping some new “clean” source comes along.

Nobody who actually understands the problem glosses over this present state of affairs. Yes, there’s a build out problem. But, again, that there is a problem doesn’t make this an insurmountable hurdle. Not even close. The only thing that makes it insurmountable is looking at the problem, shrugging and saying “why even try…” in your best Eeyore voice. Nobody ever asked for this to all happen now. And, if the foot dragging wasn’t so leaden in the 1990s, we’d be way more than half way where we need to go. But instead, Eeyore.

The efficiencies of electric motors would mitigate somewhat but not remotely make up for the shortfall of energy requirements.

I’ll note here that, in the present state of charging your EV off a mixed source energy grid, the NG fired plant that’s contributing operates at a vastly higher efficiency than the tiny ICE in a car. And is also far far cleaner. So, even if all energy came from gas or, less ideal, coal, there would be huge emissions (CO2, NOx, Sulphate etc.) wins if everyone drove ICE powered cars. Basically, small, relatively cold ICEs that fit in a car are a disaster. A very useful one, but total crap from an efficiency and clean burning stand point when compared to larger facilities.

And that’s just for recharging. Then there’s the energy for manufacturing – not just to build the new as-yet-undiscovered energy facilities, or for mining all the toxic rare earth materials needed for the batteries, or the cars themselves

C’mon. There’s a heck of a lot of that same manu and mining that go into making a traditional car and its components. You can’t hide behind this.

but the vast new infrastructure upgrades required to deliver the energy.

Canada’s electrical grid is disgraceful (where it exists) and long overdue for an upgrade. Regardless, huge amounts of energy are already transmitted along this system and that energy is used for almost all kinds of manufacturing and home use. This would not be a “vast new infrastructure”. It would be a much needed improvement largely using existing tech, infrastructure and rights of way.

The economics that looked so good at the Tesla dealership begin to buckle.

The economics of a Tesla have always been a crumbling ruin to me. I despise Teslas and TSLA, but that’s a different rant!

The comparison to cell phones is a false equivalency.

That’s SA/s argument, not mine.

You admit that there are not yet alternatives to replace O&G

Nope, I said that there are viable alternatives and that R+D will almost certainly produce more. But, at present, we have the tech that’s needed.

When I take out the hype, the environmental dogma, the political agendas, and consider economics and the current state of energy technology worldwide, I don’t see the net equation favouring EV adoption as fast as you might think.

You forgot to add in your implicit bias and inertia with things being fine as they are. You live in a world built on oil, with ads for oil companies running on the regular, under a government lobbied hard and under sway by the O+G industry. Thus, it would be very difficult for you to escape that millieu and see that things can be done differently and that there’s money to be made in investing in this stuff.

As you say yourself, there is no free lunch. It’s particularly true in thermodynamics.

And capitalism has Darwinistic tendencies that gobble up the slow and lazy to force change. Best to try to foresee that change and put your dollars in play. Don’t, for the love of god, buy TSLA, but get in there somehow.

#189 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 2:42 pm

#181 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 1:13 pm

Listing “legacy processes, parts suppliers, unions, debt, executive quarterly performance objectives, dealer networks, etc.” as a detriment instead of 100 years of evolution of trial and error and streamlining, is mostly naive (there’s a couple in there I’d agree with..)

————————————–

Respectfully, these are a couple of reasons why the above points are important to my investment thesis. I feel that legacy automakers are stuck in a death spiral for the following reasons:

1. They are losing money on every EV they sell. How does management justify spending billions of dollars to retool existing plants for EV production when gas cars are still profitable. I don’t think it’s as simple as switching the drive train to electric. These vehicles need to be designed from the ground up. Especially with Tesla as a benchmark. The current lineup of EVs from the big players does not compete on a range per kwh battery pack basis. The battery is the most expensive part of the car and there needs to be a commitment to EVs to make scale work. There are lots of smart people working at the large automakers but they’re not the ones in charge.

2. Dealer do NOT want to sell EVs. My understanding is that car dealers make most of their profits from service. Why would they want to sell a vehicle that needs nothing beyond tire and break maintenance over a 500,000 km lifespan. This is a huge internal conflict of interest.

Happy to hear constructive criticism as to why I’m wrong.

#190 Faron on 07.27.20 at 2:44 pm

#178 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 12:58 pm

#176 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 12:39 pm
#159 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 10:54 am

Sure, those new-fangled mobile phones are exciting, but they’ll never catch on.

Heck, we make 50 times the number of phones they do!

Fuggedaboutit

————–

Yeah, I get it. But a car is infinitely more complicated than a phone..

————–

Maybe…

Actually, an EV has far far far fewer moving parts than an ICE driven car. Teslas are a few parts, some fancy stuff like lidar/radar, and a whole lot of software.

Tesla Divests Automotive Group, Use Proceeds to Invest in Stock

#191 D Tree on 07.27.20 at 2:54 pm

#170 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 11:58 am

—————————————

Thank you for the detailed breakdown. Lots of food for thought here.

I think the tslas continuous integration design approach is why they don’t work with tier 1 suppliers. Munro & Associates did a complete tear down of the Model 3 and Model Y and posted a comparison. I watched all 40 videos before doubling my investment in TSLA. Here is the summary video if you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOrrdqje9Og&list=PLkiDlGyJnprdFftxAZ85a5Rp1LlET4Wbr&index=42

Also, Tesla are hiring people with your skill set all over the world if you are interested :) https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/careers/job/automation-controlsengineer-45086

#192 SunShowers on 07.27.20 at 2:56 pm

Did you come to this knuckle-dragging blog for re-education? – Garth

——

I’ve been coming here for years, at this point, it’s more habit than anything!

But in all seriousness, I come for the honest assessment of the Canadian real estate situation, and financial news in general with your trademark sarcastic and slightly self-deprecating twist. I also like dogs.

And for what it’s worth, you’re probably the only conservative voice that I trust to actually have the best interest of Canadians at heart.

#193 Gravy Train on 07.27.20 at 3:25 pm

#147 Flop… on 07.27.20 at 9:48 am
“I made a genuine attempt to help.[…] Anyway, not the response I was expecting, but I tried, good luck…” Do you have any training or experience in career counseling? Tell me: Do you think you can also perform surgery without a medical degree? :P

#194 Dr V on 07.27.20 at 3:32 pm

153 BillyBob and anyone else interested in energy consumption in BC.

It surprised me. I always thought hydro would have
been higher. It’s not much ahead of bio.

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/nrgsstmprfls/bc-eng.html

In BC “Refined petroleum products, including gasoline and diesel, were the largest fuel-type consumed in B.C., accounting for 450 PJ, or 36%. Natural gas, electricity and biofuels accounted for 377 PJ (30%), 229 PJ (18%) and 189 PJ (15%), respectively (Figure 7).

#195 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 4:27 pm

#193 Gravy Train on 07.27.20 at 3:25 pm
#147 Flop… on 07.27.20 at 9:48 am

“I made a genuine attempt to help.[…] Anyway, not the response I was expecting, but I tried, good luck…”

—————

Do you have any training or experience in career counseling? Tell me: Do you think you can also perform surgery without a medical degree? :P

—————

Flop means well but can be a bit ham-handed in execution.

#196 BG on 07.27.20 at 5:19 pm

Just a reminder to talk to your elderly parents about their finances like Garth says. I never did because I thought it would just cause problems I didn’t want to deal with. Mom thought her financial guy was the greatest. I am now settling up the estate account with CIBC Wood Gundy. The investment account never made money that I can see. It was mainly in GIC’s, three stocks and a so called high interest savings account. They charged $50 a piece to sell the stocks and a $560 administrative fee to settle the account. I asked for a detailed bill on the administration fee because they charge ($150 /hr) but they just gave me a general breakdown of what they did.
The account wasn’t a lot of money but it was hard earned by my parents and it ticks me off that CIBC is getting an undeserved chunk of it.

#197 Sail Away on 07.27.20 at 5:51 pm

#190 Faron on 07.27.20 at 2:44 pm
#176 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.27.20 at 12:39 pm

….a car is infinitely more complicated than a phone..

————-

Actually, an EV has far far far fewer moving parts than an ICE driven car. Teslas are a few parts, some fancy stuff like lidar/radar, and a whole lot of software.

————-

I think we can agree that a car, even an EV, has more moving parts than a phone.

#198 baloney Sandwitch on 07.28.20 at 1:49 pm

Late comment at the tail end of a long stream so little chance some one reads it.
Yes, I am long gold because I beleive we are in a indexing bubble. Every little robin hood and their uncle is now investing in etf’s. This is driving by the indexes particularly the big ones like SPY and QQQ. When this trade reverses there will be huge disruption. That is when people will wish they had gold. It can happen tomorrow or 3 years from now. Gold is insurance for the bursting on the stock index bubble.