Red ink

RYAN   By Guest Blogger Ryan Lewenza

.

Last week we got the summer fiscal update from the Federal Libs and it wasn’t pretty. This year our Federal deficit is projected to hit a staggering $343 billion, more than 5x the previous record of $56 billion set back in 2010. Let that sink in for a second.

As a consequence of our accumulated deficits, T2’s increased spending and deficits over the last 5 years, and the economic fallout from this terrible global pandemic, our total Federal debt will surpass $1 trillion dollars by year-end (it was $500 billion 10 years ago!).

Now I’m all for Keynesian economics, which posits that governments should increase government spending during economic downturns to stimulate economic activity and growth, but I want to know there’s a credit limit on the government credit card (AKA our tax dollars).

It gets even worse, unfortunately. Garth asked me recently on a weekly client conference call what I was looking for in this fiscal update and I responded “a plan and rough timeline for returning to balanced budgets over the medium to long-term.” Not only did our Finance Minister not provide this, he even backed away from the governments “fiscal anchor”, which was what the Liberal government previously provided as a target to drive the debt-to-GDP ratio to 30% over the long-term.

When asked about this shift away from the “fiscal anchor” and the record spending and deficits, our Finance Minister responded with his token and regurgitative answer, “We’re investing in people and jobs”. Unfortunately, this non-answer fails to address the previous $55 billion of deficits under T2 and does nothing to address many Canadians concerns about our deteriorating financial position. That’s the key thing: We should be running balanced budgets (or minimal deficits) during good times, so that we can be prepared to respond during these downturns.

When completing the research for this week’s blog post and updating my charts to reflect these new breathtaking numbers, an odd/sad thing occurred in my charts. Here is a chart of our yearly government budget balances before this year’s projected record deficit.

Canada’s Budget Balances Before COVID

Source: Bloomberg, Turner Investments

And here is that same chart when we include this year’s $343 billion deficit. Note that: 1) this year’s deficit is 5x larger than our previous record deficit in 2010 following the financial crisis; and 2) the dramatic change in scaling. Basically this number is so large that it “squeezes” the old historical data, making the previous deficits/surplus look like a rounding error. When seeing this it hit me like a ton of bricks, realizing just how meaningful this increased spending and deficits are.

Canada’s Budget Balances After COVID (Note the scaling)

Source: Bloomberg, Turner Investments

Now it wasn’t always this way. Back in the 1990s we got into some trouble with our then out of control deficits, until my Windsor pal, Paul Martin (I grew up (on the other side of the tracks) just blocks away from Paul Martin Sr’s family home). The Honourable Paul Martin saw the writing on the wall and slashed government spending, helping to balance our budgets and return us to a more sustainable fiscal path.

Garth’s pal, the Honourable Steven Harper, then maintained this approach by having balanced budgets from 2006 till 2009, when the financial crisis hit and the Canadian government agreed to a pledge by all G20 countries to spend 2% of GDP to help combat the effects of the financial crisis. From 2010 to 2014 Canada experienced large deficits before basically getting back to even in 2015.

But all of this changed when T2 took over and from a fiscal perspective, it’s been nothing short of a disaster. To be clear, I’m no T2 hater and I believe he’s a done a few good things (e.g., NAFTA renegotiations, gender equality, legalization of marijuana). However, on the fiscal file I think it’s fair to say he’s been a complete dud. But based on my analysis, maybe we shouldn’t be surprised by this given his family lineage and history. Let me explain.

The Trudeau’s (Pierre from 1968 to 1984 and Justin more recently) are very comfortable with increasing government spending to support their progressive initiatives and running large deficits. As proof of this I ran some numbers with pretty telling results.

I calculated the cumulative total of our Federal annual deficits since 1968 (when T1 became PM), which amounts to $1 trillion or the amount of our total Federal debt by end of year. I then calculated the total deficits realized under Pierre ($151 billion) and Justin ($397 blillion). So of our total $1 trillion in Federal debt that exists today, the Trudeau family has accounted for $548 billion or 55% of our total outstanding Canadian government debt. That’s a lot of red ink that has been amassed under one family.

Cumulative Federal Deficits Since 1968

Source: Bloomberg, Turner Investments

What’s the end game from all this spending and deficits?

I see only three potential outcomes. First, the government spending helps usher in a recovery and higher economic growth over the long-run making it easier to pay back the debt and getting the situation under control (laughable). Second, the current (or future) government finally see’s the errors of its ways and slashes spending similar to that seen under Paul Martin and put our country on a path to a balanced budget (highly unlikely). Finally, the last and most likely scenario to address our record deficits are through sizable increases in taxes. If I was a betting man I would bet on the higher taxes option, given this government’s previous track record.

So there you have it. Red ink as far as the eye can see, with no plan to return to our old ways of fiscal prudence and balanced budgets. Tack on the worst global pandemic in a century, escalating racial tensions in the US and Kanye West recently announcing his run for the US presidential election, 2020 is shaping up to be the worst year in as long as I can remember.

Have a great weekend all!

Ryan Lewenza, CFA, CMT is a Partner and Portfolio Manager with Turner Investments, and a Senior Vice President, Private Client Group, of Raymond James Ltd.

 

186 comments ↓

#1 victorious on 07.18.20 at 9:37 am

Well I have been telling people since March what a total disaster this will be for Canada and in the end much worse than the damage directly from COVID. There was absolutely no need to spend even half the money they did. The lockdown was totally overdone. The real problem was in the nursing homes. We should have injected tens of billions of dollars to keep the virus out of those facilities, hire more staff and train them properly, supervise them properly, pay them more, keep them in one nursing home, provide them with the right PPE and so on. We could have cut the deaths by 80 percent at a fraction of the cost we have now spent. And we could have kept most businesses open and most people working hence withouth the massive spending on paying people to do nothing. The CESB is a joke..students do not need any money..there are jobs out there and many small businesses now cant find workers. The government and many western governments have totally mismanaged this. The real disaster is yet to come..what happens next year. Do you really think the deficit will only be 350 billion..it will end up over 400 billion this year and likely another 150-200 billion next year. But Canadians like the free money..they will find out in a few years what a deep cost this will end up ultimately.

#2 Yep on 07.18.20 at 9:40 am

T1 started it all… and T2 is pumped by the opportunity to let the budget balance itself…. I say he hits 2 trillion before it’s done

#3 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 9:40 am

A truly frightening financial scenario moving forward.

Those graphs should be on Billboards in every major city in this country…..

I wrote Paul Martin in the early 90’s BE (Before Email)when he was Finance Minister …and was shocked to recieve a handwritten, signed reply back.
A class act.
Unlike the self promoting, opportunistic hacks infesting every level of govt today.
perhaps if we all sent hand written letters to the current Finance Minister expressing our shock and disgust at the current level of spending …..
It would certainly have more impact than emails that dont make it past the “delete” button of his staffers…..

#4 Jay on 07.18.20 at 9:49 am

The government not only spent 120 million advertising the pandemic to us (because otherwise how would we have known to social distance) but spent 3.7 million on hiring 16 people to review the ads.

The level of rediculous spending is appalling, even outside of the CERB payments. The liberals haven’t forgotten to include kickbacks to all their friends or extra payments to their supporters either.

https://torontosun.com/news/national/feds-spent-3-7m-on-16-staff-to-review-pandemic-ad-campaign

#5 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 9:53 am

@#138 aint life rand
“If you’re a longtime westcoaster, Nova Scotia weather may take awhile getting used to. Hali isn’t particularly affordable anymore.”
++++

I was born on the east coast, lived there until I was 19 and left. No work.
Moved to Cowtown. Loved the mountains. Hated the city.
Moved to the Lower Mainland in 81′ . Great place. Small city( about a million people then) with a friendly atmosphere.
Watched it morph into the materialistic, pretentious, over priced, grid lock that it is now….
I have purchased and sold property here and on the east coast several times.
I’m always looking at property on the east coast for retirement in a few years.
Alas, I’ll have to give up the “elevated lifestyle” at some point…….

#6 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 9:59 am

@#125 Ronaldo
“People are now hoarding cash insted of toilet paper.”
++++

A minor correction if I may…..
If the Liberals continue to spend us into a bottomless pit of debt and our dollar tanks…..

People will hoard cash to USE as toilet paper….

#7 OK, Doomer on 07.18.20 at 10:03 am

T2 continues to demonstrate immaturity, poor judgement and denial in his daily actions. Unfortunately, his views and actions mirror perfectly electorate so they totally get each other.

Until some adults are able to get control of this situation it will continue.

#8 MDQ on 07.18.20 at 10:04 am

Great article Ryan, it really put things into context when you visualize the data like that.

I could not disagree more with what you think T2 has done well.

NAFTA renegotiations:
How can you screw this up?

gender equality:
This is a social issue, government should stay away from this rhetoric

legalization of marijuana:
why would you want to live in a society that encourages the use of drugs? Do you want your children to use these substances? or is it ok to capitalize from ‘stoners’?

I was not around the 60’s when T1 was around, but I hope one day we don’t allow the statues of this family in any park, school or institution. They are anti-Canadians in my book.

#9 Dharma Bum on 07.18.20 at 10:06 am

Really?

I gotta wake up to see that corrupt, virtue signalling, insincere apologist, incompetent, blackfaced, culture insulting, costume wearing, welfare spreading, drama teaching, scruffy bearded, lying, pipeline killing, pseudo feminist’s mug first thing in the morning?

C’mon!

#10 Trex on 07.18.20 at 10:06 am

Wait…..What!

CMHC pays UBC to research federal home equity tax meant to ‘level playing field between renters and owners’

#11 Post on 07.18.20 at 10:13 am

Great post Ryan – Thanks (for the hard work).

Do you still see the S&P consolidating in a summer range of 2700-3300?

#12 baloney Sandwitch on 07.18.20 at 10:15 am

Bring Paul Martin back. That is the only way.

#13 KNOW IT ALL on 07.18.20 at 10:24 am

IN THE LONG-RUN were all DEAD anyhow!

So what’s all the FUSS over?

#14 Flop... on 07.18.20 at 10:27 am

Faron 18.20 at 3:05 am
#112 Flop… on 07.16.20 at 8:30 pm

Thanks for the reminder about SA. Not surprising that he went after you in that scenario. Life’s too short to embroil one’s self with those who fear vulnerability or, worse, who lash out or go in for attack when they see it. And anyone, myself included, who is posting here multiple times daily and with smug superiority or malice needs to consider what the void is that they are using this comments section to fill. I think about that frequently.

/////////////////////

Morning Faron.

Yourself and I have a different opinion on a lot of subjects posted here,but I’m not going to write you ten times a day and try and bust your balls and make things personal.

People misinterpreted my post referring to my friend, but the main reason I showed you that, was to show I had already been down the path of leaving the spouse and kids out of it with that poster.

Try and stay out of the weeds.

I get the most joy on here by writing original posts about the general subjects of the blog.

There is a certain subset that will never write these types of posts,and I’m not even sure they even bother reading the hosts posts, as they just zero in on one statement by someone in the comments and go to town without any civil discussion or solutions.

I had a spin-off blog for a while, it gave me lots of insight into true feelings of this blog and people would leave lots of comments like the one below.

They just want the information, swapping it as entertaining as possible, even better, but it comes back to the quality of information you are doling out each day…

M46BC

“Hi M44BC, Big fan of your work, I can now just come here for some insights instead of digging through the sc*m & villainy on the bearded sages blog. I truly feel that more “regular people” need access to the level of information you’re providing, and I send each and every person who asks me what’s happening in Vancouver RE straight here. (mandatory suck-up over)”

#15 Hiding On The Backstreets on 07.18.20 at 10:28 am

I wonder if the GST helped the 90s Libs get the financing back on track? Or downloading services to the provinces. Or the provinces, for that matter, downloading to the cities.

Debt and deficits are meaningless in the political scheme without discussing all levels of govt. They are all spenders. Govts. exist to grow and tax. It’s a system that will eventually eat itself. Happening to us now in real time.

#16 Lucille on 07.18.20 at 10:34 am

Wow, he is so good looking.

Justin, you have my vote, sweetie :)

#17 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.18.20 at 10:36 am

#134 Gravy Train on 07.18.20 at 6:04 am sez:

“#73 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.17.20 at 7:39 pm
“Hey Gravy Train, is this the one you’ve got hooked up at your place?” First, I have solar panels, not wind turbines, you dumbass! Second, are you alleging I’ve been defrauded? My solar panels have already produced a year’s worth of expected cost savings, and will continue to do so for the next fifty years, you dumbass! Third, I did try to refrain from insulting you, as I was taught not to make fun of the weak-minded! :P”
———————————————————–
I know what you have dear. It was a joke. Sorry I expected you to have a sense of humour.

#18 SOMETHINGS UP!! on 07.18.20 at 10:38 am

So you think their going to TAX my CERB and social assistance (WELFARE) cheques??

THIS CALLS for an UPRISING.

#19 twofatcats on 07.18.20 at 10:39 am

To pay for the 2020 deadly pandemic they will tax the only source of wealth left in the country – residential real estate. I predict a flat 5% tax on the sale price of your primary residence. The sale price is public knowledge and it cannot be gamed.

Over time this new tax will be buried in the long list of existing closing costs. Decades down the road buyers will not even notice it.

#20 binky barnes on 07.18.20 at 10:46 am

Aw, c’mon guys….we all know that JT has a plan in place. The fiscal health of this country–both in the short and long term–is in capable hands. Now rest easy and enjoy the summer weather.

BB

#21 twofatcats on 07.18.20 at 10:48 am

CMHC considers homeowners to be lottery winners whose houses serve as tax shelters:

https://www.blacklocks.ca/feds-eye-home-equity-tax/

#22 Idiocy on 07.18.20 at 10:50 am

Apparently, Kanye West has withdrawn from runnning for President.

Hope that makes it a tiny, wee bit better 2020 for you Ryan !

#23 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 07.18.20 at 10:53 am

Interesting charts, Ryan.

At some point, perhaps people will notice that when you elect elite-serving idiots like Mulroney, Harris, Harper, and Ford, the debt always rises to give more benefits to the rich, at the expense of everyone else.

(The current pandemic is a complete outlier, way too difficult to include those debts at this point in the overall analysis.)

We need leaders who will treat all dollars equally, whether debts or assets. Conservatives botch this every time, leaving a yet bigger trail of debt and missed opportunities. Ontario and Alberta will be even bigger disaster zones, just wait.

#24 Flop... on 07.18.20 at 10:56 am

The last time I checked Canada only had 44 Billionaires.

Even if they were all generous enough to hand over a casual billion, probably making some of them paltry millionaires, it would hardly blunt that current spending spike.

That’s how out of control things are here, but hardly a peep from society.

People too busy waiting for the mailman to come around, hoping that he’s got a brown envelope for them…

M46BC

#25 Idiocy on 07.18.20 at 10:58 am

… and Ryan,

Thanks for putting the debt situation into perspective for us with those charts.
Truly illuminating (and disturbing).

Only quibbles:

1) You didn’t “inflation adjust” the T1 deficit numbers, nor note that the interest rate that debt carried was at much higher levels when incurred and in subsequent years, thereby allowing it to accumulate at even a faster pace.

2) You didn’t mention that Cdn debt was relatively low prior to T1’s reign and that T1 essentially tripled the national debt load previously accrued by predecessor governments.

#26 Dirty Dan on 07.18.20 at 11:00 am

The federal government has given the green light for a safe supply of drugs for Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside residents in light of the COVID-19 crisis, according to Mayor Kennedy Stewart.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-dtes-residents-covid-march-26-1.5511149

“There were 175 deaths due to illicit drugs in the province last month, up from previous high of 171 in May”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/overdose-deaths-b-c-june-2020-1.5652311

Government policies do work.

The streets clean themselves – Justin Trudeau

#27 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 11:07 am

@#16 Lucille
“Wow, he is so good looking.
Justin, you have my vote, sweetie :)”
+++

Please.
I just ate.

#28 jal on 07.18.20 at 11:09 am

The level of ridiculous spending is appalling to try to hide what the rich and powerful leaders have done in mismanaging our social and economic system.

The blame/credit lies with those making the decisions, the rules, the regulations, the operations.

I’m not to blame. I’m just a pawn.

#29 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:11 am

Now overlay those charts with S&P500:TSX performance. The TSX has lagged the S&P500 significantly during the periods you’re referring to. $CAD has also languished most significantly. Expect new lows for $CAD and TSX relative performance.

#30 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:14 am

On another note, $40 oil is a very significant level with decades of overhead resistance. It will be very difficult for oil to break through this level definitively. There is a high probability that oil heads lower and remains in a range between $15-$40 for the foreseeable future.

#31 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:17 am

PS Ryan’s posts are so much better than Garth’s posts. Ryan should be blogging more frequently. Put Garth in a Covid19 free retirement home where he belongs. ;)

#32 whiplash on 07.18.20 at 11:17 am

Interesting photo!

Official statement from the PM’s office November 26, 2016

“It is with deep sorrow that I learned today of the death of Cuba’s longest serving President.

“Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.

“While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”.

“I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raul Castro during my visit to Cuba.

“On behalf of “ALL” Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends, and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader”.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau

Castro’s Cuba— Ruthless Suppression, Failed Soviet economic policies!

#33 CERB on 07.18.20 at 11:19 am

CERB should never have been extended. If Libs have to buy NDP support, extensions should only be for sectors still closed in Jul/Aug, and eligibility should increase the min age and min earnings.

Bills 13 and 17 wording seems to say that Carla Qualtrough can alter the min earnings required and the income support amount, with Bill Morneau’s consent:

“worker means a person who is at least 15 years of age, who is resident in Canada and who, for 2019 or in the 12-month period preceding the day on which they make an application under section 5, has a total income of at least $5,000 — or, if another amount is fixed by regulation, of at least that amount — …
Regulations — definition of worker
3 With the consent of the Minister of Finance, the Minister may, by regulation, fix an amount for the purposes of the definition worker in section 2.”

“Amount of payment
7 (1) The amount of an income support payment for a week is the amount fixed by regulation for that week.
Regulations
(2) With the consent of the Minister of Finance, the Minister may, by regulation, fix the amount of an income support payment for a week specified in the regulation.”

Does anyone know how fed-up taxpayers can get Qualtrough and Morneau to increase the min $5k earnings required (eg to $20k) and decrease the $2k support to not disincentive working (eg to $1k)?

How many of us need to be clamoring for this before govt listens? Is it just reporters that have this kind of power? Eg WE charity backed out fast after they were announced by JT. Who created that pressure?

There have been some upsetting CERB stories over the last few months, CERB is hampering economic recovery, recent surveys show waning public support, what more does the govt need before they make these basic changes and stop wasting our money?

If the auditor general’s performance audit on the CERB comes back that taxpayers’ money was not prudently spent, would the government be obliged to recover funds from those who should never have qualified in the first place?

#34 millmech on 07.18.20 at 11:32 am

#10 Trex
It will come in the form of a federal property tax, there will be no write offs allowed ,it will start small around .5% and grow from there(Vancouver imposed a .5% opioid crisis property tax increase, see how well that worked).Everyone pays their fair share, after all the feds had your back during the covid crisis, now you get to cover theirs.
Watch CBC start to soften the public up with all those hard working home deprived renters who can not catch a break news stories. Insert the usual politically correct villain, lording over the politically correct victim of the day the with multiple offspring and the “woked” will eagerly vote to right the perceived wrong.
This is going to be epic, I bet none of that money goes to the debt because it will just balance itself and we can now buy that UN seat outright.
Also we need to help fund building those oil fields and refineries in Africa to get that desperately needed oil to our Irving refineries in Atlantic Canada because of our own oil shortage.

#35 technical analysis?? on 07.18.20 at 11:46 am

your problem starts with Keynesian economics. …

#36 Taxmor on 07.18.20 at 11:47 am

Let’s face it, pandemic or not, we will always be taxed more in Canada. The deficit is just a pretty chart. Does anyone really care about debt.

The only hope is to get someone in charge that understands building business, the economy and creating jobs like south of the border.

I haven’t heard socks utter one word about building things up. He comes out of his cuckoo home at the same time each day to hand out a few more hundred million he never had to those that shouldn’t be getting it.

The Summer of Love as Seattle’s mayor put it – love for free money. Poetic and put luck.

#37 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:50 am

HST to 17%. Welcome to Norther Europe.

#38 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:53 am

Canada doesn’t have enough wealthy citizens per capita to benefit from higher taxes from this group.

Hyperpopular Trudea will do something extremely unpopular (and they’ll still love him enough to want to rub their face in his beard).

He’ll crank the HST over time increasing it by 1% per year for 5 years.

He’ll add a progressive real estate tax.

Bang.

#39 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:59 am

https://taxfoundation.org/vat-rates-europe-2019/

This is where we’re going folks. Canada is NOT the US. Canada is Northern Europe in disguise.

HST to 15-20% over the next 5 years. It’s so obvious and so easy for them. It’s easy cash in the government’s hands. Canadians aren’t going to stop spending. They can’t help themselves and the Libby’s know it.

“Besides, it’s what Canadians want.” TM

#40 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.18.20 at 12:02 pm

#26 Idiocy on 07.18.20 at 10:58 am
… and Ryan,

Thanks for putting the debt situation into perspective for us with those charts.
Truly illuminating (and disturbing).

Only quibbles:

1) You didn’t “inflation adjust” the T1 deficit numbers, nor note that the interest rate that debt carried was at much higher levels when incurred and in subsequent years, thereby allowing it to accumulate at even a faster pace.

2) You didn’t mention that Cdn debt was relatively low prior to T1’s reign and that T1 essentially tripled the national debt load previously accrued by predecessor governments.
—————
You are lucky that you live in Europe.
So this really does not affect you.

#41 JoshC on 07.18.20 at 12:03 pm

You’re from St Henri Ryan?

#42 David R McDonald on 07.18.20 at 12:03 pm

Any responsible government would have spent similarly to ward off a depression so we have to keep things in perspective. Aside from being asleep at the outset of the crisis I think the federal government has done a good job. However we need a plan based on growth to get out of this financial mess. Otherwise our dollar will sink and separatist support will grow.

#43 Ryan Lewenza on 07.18.20 at 12:11 pm

MDQ “Great article Ryan, it really put things into context when you visualize the data like that.

I could not disagree more with what you think T2 has done well.

NAFTA renegotiations:
How can you screw this up?

gender equality:
This is a social issue, government should stay away from this rhetoric

legalization of marijuana:
why would you want to live in a society that encourages the use of drugs? Do you want your children to use these substances? or is it ok to capitalize from ‘stoners’?”

Clearly these issues are subjective. On the NAFTA front he held steady and did not cave under the pressure to give up more to the US. He held his ground right to the end (even when conservatives were calling on him to just get a deal done) and I was really happy to see how little we gave up (e.g., a few % of milk sales to US dairy farmers and longer US drug patents). On gender equality, women make 15% less than men in Canada and represent less than 20% of board members for Canadian companies, so I believe having a cabinet of 50% females is a good thing and sends a positive strong message to the public and corporations. On the marijuana front, I believe people are going to smoke pot regardless so why not regulate and tax it. This brings in much needed tax revenue, creates thousands or new jobs, is better for marijuana users since its regulated (it’s ok for liquor stores but not pot dispensaries?), and it reduces criminal fines/jail time for recreational pot smokers, which is better for the police/courts.

Bigger picture, I believe politics have become so partisan today that everything is seen through the lens of liberal/conservative or left/right that people end up hating everything about the opposing leader/party. For example, CNN is terrible and one-sided with its treatment/coverage of Trump and vice versa, people who dislike T2 hate everything he’s done and stands for. But I believe strongly in pragmatism over ideology, so I try to look at every policy on its on merit and therefore believe T2 has done a few good things, which I’ve highlighted. – Ryan L

#44 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 12:12 pm

@#27 Dirty Dan
” according to Mayor Kennedy Stewart.”
+++

Kennedy Stewart is an east coast Nova Scotian that spent most of his early life obtaining a Masters Degree in Political Science. Then he wrote a book about it.
Later when he realized the hard scrabble politics of the Maritimes wasnt for him he emerged on the West Coast.
He reinvented himself as a NDP socialist and ran in the oh so safe NDP riding of Burnaby North ( Svend Robinsons riding for decades until he stole a diamond ring for his husband).
Anywho.
Kennedy ran in BBY North and won( big surprise there).
As luck would have it .
Timing is everything.
He was able to use the Trans Canada Pipeline terminal in North Burnaby ( just down the hill from Simon Fraser University….that bastion of doe eyed environmentalists) to further his environmental image ( and what politician turns down free publicity) with tv coverage of him bravely being arrested with pipeline protesters.
God bless Greta.
But the tides were turning.
As the Harper govt decide to break up various federal constituencies into population based ridings…. the decades long NDP safe seat of Burnaby North was split into BBY North and BBY South and “horrors” …..Kennedy’s once safe seat of BBY North included the White collar population of North Van/Deep Cove … a bastion of rich conservatives…….
Uh Oh.
BBY North wasnt a shoe in.
Kennedy was offered BBY South which he grabbed without hesitation.
“Bye Bye BBY North voters ..glad to know ya.”

But the winds of change once again favoured Kennedy.

Vancouver Mayor Gregor (the Dim) Robertson decided his dismal poll ratings ( and various political scandals ) rendered his reelection impossible.
So he stepped aside.
Kennedy to the rescue!
While sitting as the federal MPO for BBY South he decided to run as Mayor of Van.
AND he handed his Burnaby South safe riding over to the Federal NDP Leader…”Jazzy” Singh.

A “win-win” for Political Science King Maker Kennedy.

If he lost in his bid as mayor( almost an impossibility) He would be guaranteed a plum job in the NDP for surrendering his safe seat to the NDP Leadership.

But

Has Kennedy’s luck run out?
He is now the mayor of Vancouver .
A city with a defict in its budget that must (by Law) be dealt with.
He has thrown the police under the bus in his hurried attempt to jump on the BLM bandwagon.
There is no love between him and the provincial NDP.
Jazzy’s position is shaky.
The Federal Liberals and the Conservative would rather tap dance in a barrel full of rattlesnakes than trust anything Stewart says.
Its safer.
Taxes must rise.
Businesses are closing.
Covid part deux is coming.
Kennedy Stewart might actually have to make tough decisions for the first time in his political career.

#45 Kato on 07.18.20 at 12:13 pm

I give credit to Paul Martin for making tough calls and helping Canada crawl out of the pit. Having joined the military in the early 2000’s, though, I saw the CAF trying to play catch-up to what the government was asking it to do. It took a couple of sole sourced purchases that we arguably paid too much for to get some protection to the men and women sent to Afghanistan.

Not saying it didn’t need to be done, but the organization was hollowed out by early retirements and slashed training and operating budgets. Looked good in the 90’s, and we paid for it in the 00’s.

As our rugged, masculine host has pointed out previously, the entire budget for the Army, Navy, and Air Force (some 90,000 personnel if you include Reserves… also jets, helicopters, submarines, and tanks) wouldn’t pay for 3 months of CERB.

Going to be interesting to see what it’ll take to clean this up.

#46 Ryan Lewenza on 07.18.20 at 12:15 pm

Dharma Bum “Really?

I gotta wake up to see that corrupt, virtue signalling, insincere apologist, incompetent, blackfaced, culture insulting, costume wearing, welfare spreading, drama teaching, scruffy bearded, lying, pipeline killing, pseudo feminist’s mug first thing in the morning?

C’mon!”

Hey, what do you have against drama teachers? I’m clearly no T2 fan but that was harsh! bahaha – Ryan L

#47 Dave on 07.18.20 at 12:30 pm

Question: Did your your family profit from WE charity?
Answer: Oui

Questions: Did your govt give millions to WE charity without proper procurement processes and oversight?
Answer: Oui

Question: Mr Trudeau will tax the middle class to death?
Answer: WE must all pay the price for my stupidity!!!

#48 Yukon Elvis on 07.18.20 at 12:30 pm

Looks like he is speaking moistly in that pic.

#49 Ryan Lewenza on 07.18.20 at 12:31 pm

Idiocy “… and Ryan,

Thanks for putting the debt situation into perspective for us with those charts.
Truly illuminating (and disturbing).

Only quibbles:

1) You didn’t “inflation adjust” the T1 deficit numbers, nor note that the interest rate that debt carried was at much higher levels when incurred and in subsequent years, thereby allowing it to accumulate at even a faster pace.

2) You didn’t mention that Cdn debt was relatively low prior to T1’s reign and that T1 essentially tripled the national debt load previously accrued by predecessor governments.”

Good catch on the inflation front. I did consider including some commentary about that (a T1 deficit in the 1960s is not the equivalent of a T2 deficit on a nominal basis) but I didn’t want to complicate the blog post further. On the low relative debt prior to T1, I wanted the focus of today’s blog to be on our current deficits and highlight the cumulative total of the Trudeau’s on our outstanding total debt today. – Ryan L

#50 Red Menace on 07.18.20 at 12:36 pm

Today’s picture is an apt one in that it shows a bloom of red behind our Prime Minister as if to suggest the storm of deficits that have engulfed us.

We simply cannot afford these expenditures. I am very disappointed in the current Federal government for its profligacy and its coy response to inquiries as to how it proposes to deal with the deficits. While there are other sovereign nations that face similar or possibly worse deficits, I think Canada is perhaps one of the most vulnerable in that we have laid the seeds of dissolution of our population’s desire to achieve, to work, and to act responsibly. We also don’t have sufficient population growth nor a strong enough base in our economy to support economic growth that in turn would yield higher tax revenue. I think that our credit rating will take another tumble and continued deficits will mean higher interest rates as we will become a greater risk as a borrower.

Honestly, I believe we went off the rails when Pierre Elliot Trudeau was first elected. He was one of the first politicians, not unlike Kennedy in the USA, who was easy to sell through the media versus the ponderous, long-faced Robert Stanfield, the best prime minister we never had. And now, Justin Trudeau heads a government that is even more profligate with the public purse than his father. What I find equally disturbing is that instead of good public policy we are now faced with the grim spectre of a government that thinks more about how to appease a demanding and fractious electorate and its desire for more than what we need to do to ensure our country will survive.

Where does this end? I agree with the author of today’s blog that we are facing many more years of deficits, substantially higher taxes, and a diminishing of our great country on the world stage. We will not be able to attract immigrants, nor participate in global policy initiatives, or for that matter even be taken seriously. In short, we are in for many years of diminishing expectations and reduced circumstances.

#51 Oracle of Ottawa on 07.18.20 at 12:40 pm

Thanks Ryan for the reality check. Do you see the printing presses starting up and inflation at some point.

#52 Ryan Lewenza on 07.18.20 at 12:44 pm

A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar “Interesting charts, Ryan.

At some point, perhaps people will notice that when you elect elite-serving idiots like Mulroney, Harris, Harper, and Ford, the debt always rises to give more benefits to the rich, at the expense of everyone else.”

I would not agree with your last statement with respect to T2’s policies and deficits. I doubt the “rich” would view themselves as beneficiaries of his policies and deficits. The “rich” are not benefitting much from his polices and deficits as 1) many of T2’s policies are means tested (eg the “rich” don’t receive the Child Benefit), and 2) those with higher income levels have seen their taxes rise while the middle income levels have seen their personal tax rates decline. Now if they cut corporate tax rates or personal tax rates for higher income earners then I would be in more agreement of your statement. – Ryan L

#53 mike from mtl on 07.18.20 at 1:06 pm

Not defending T2 here, but what other option is there? You (.gov) are dictating who has the privilege run a business and how – obviously mass unemployment follows.

Either:

1) Print up a storm to keep #2 at bay.
2) Do nothing and have a spiralling great(er) depression lasting perhaps a decade. Which for .gov is even worse as it erodes your tax base.

Yes absolutely, what is left to tax? Income taxes are already high, Cap Gains? To who the tiny fraction? GST, maybe. RE is probably the last untapped gold mine however, it would be political suicide.

#54 Calgary retiree on 07.18.20 at 1:08 pm

The majority of Canadians support the Liberal spending – and that is all that counts.

This comment section is populated by far right malcontents, misinformed back seat drivers and 20/20 hindsight geniuses.

The pandemic is the economic equivalent of sudden war. We have to go back 75 years to get to a somewhat similar situation. Yes, the economic recovery may take years or even a decade. There will be increased taxation. At the current low inflation rates, increasing the money supply should be considered.

It will not be business as usual.

#55 FreeBird on 07.18.20 at 1:18 pm

Next could be taxing lottery and contest winnings same as in the US (in some states it’s ~50%). This and incl casino winnings may finally break the spell of distraction.

And if JT and team call an early election won’t be a waste of yet millions more of our tax money and certainly not more convenient political ab/use of circumstances. Happy weekend indeed.

#56 Karen on 07.18.20 at 1:20 pm

#16 Lucille, this is for you sweetie. Enjoy! I know I did.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/g52nci/suddenly_the_sound_is_gone_and_we_forgot_about/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

#57 GAV on 07.18.20 at 1:22 pm

Interesting Post.

Funny, a couple of months ago I congratulated all the Liberals out there for watching T2 exceed the fiscal irresponsibility of his old man, T1. Something they could be proud of.

Garth replied by saying I should grow up.

If there is a saving grace, at least the Liberal hacks who post here cannot compare Harpers deficit spending to Justin’s anymore.

Or can they?

#58 GRG on 07.18.20 at 1:23 pm

Ah yes, the state of the nation (or should that be the state of the “post-nation state”?)

– The ladies think T2 is hot. Isn’t that why we never see pics of him with Sophie any more?

– The Liberals are doing what they’ve always done best…figure out what it takes to get the votes and do it. Ethics, conflict of interest and the long term consequences be damned, all that counts is remaining in power. The “Natural Ruling Party” didn’t become that by accident.

– Clearly the majority of Canadians love getting the money and the polls show it is popular; why would anybody expect that to change any time before the next election? Or after?

– Canada has historically been a successful social experiment where people from all over the world have come to live in relative harmony. We are one of a rather small club of nations that has been able, so far, to avoid the tribalism that infects most of the rest of the world.

– But the identity politics of the T2 regime has divided the country as never before. Youth vs elders, First Nations against the nation, energy consumers against energy producers, urban vs rural, and on it goes.

– Layer on 5 years of constant reminding that Canada’s history is one that requires incessant government apologies to a seemingly endless list of wronged constituencies and it should be no surprise our national experiment is fragmenting – who can claim to be a proud citizen of such a “terrible” and now “systemically racist” country? The underwhelming turnout for Canada’s 150th on Parliament Hill should have been ample evidence of this.

– T2 is a sanctimonious narcissist. As long as current events allow him to be the center of attention this government will carry on. If that changes he will become bored with the job rather quickly; we saw evidence of this during the time between losing his majority (the job is not fun any more) and the onset of the virus episode, which brought the cameras back to focus on him.

– Some of the things this government does are stupider than stupid. We have two Canadian citizens languishing in Chinese jail cells on trumped up espionage charges, and a Chinese government that is taking every opportunity to bully everyone around them, and our nitwits in Ottawa do this:

https://nationalpost.com/news/chinese-government-owned-firm-wins-6-8m-contract-to-supply-security-equipment-to-canada-embassies

“Chinese government-owned firm wins $6.8M contract to supply security equipment to Canada’s embassies”

#59 Mike on 07.18.20 at 1:28 pm

You had me in agreement until you mentioned gender equality. The entire premise of gender inequality is baseless and Trudeau’s excuse for making half of his cabinet women “because it’s 2019” showed what a joke he is.

Instead of promoting the best and brightest candidates to cabinet, he bowed to his virtue signalling gods, in spite of the fact that women represent less than a third of MP’s in parliament.

#60 jess on 07.18.20 at 1:28 pm

Why ‘The Market’ Can’t Regulate the Trade in PPE and Other Vital Pandemic Supplies
Hey, Remember When Trump and Barr Set Up a Task Force to Bust COVID-19 Price Gougers? We Do.

By Terry H. Schwadron, DCReport Opinion Editor
https://www.dcreport.org/2020/07/16/why-the-market-cant-regulate-the-trade-in-ppe-and-other-vital-pandemic-supplies/

Featured Story, Taxes, The Latest News
A Real Estate Deal That Should Have Raised Red Flags at the IRS

https://www.dcreport.org/category/taxes/

who are the freedom partners
charity ?

https://www.desmogblog.com/freedom-partners

This 2017 document titled “A Roadmap to Repeal: Removing Regulatory Barriers to Opportunity” was created by Freedom Partners, a donor group Politico has called the “secret bank” of the Koch Brothers.

According to Nicholas Confessore, writing for the New York Times in January 2015, the Koch Brothers (Charles and David) and their billionaire minions that meet secretly twice a year at tony resorts to strategize on running the country, agreed to spend upwards of $900 million “to shape a presidential election that is already on track to be the most expensive in history.” This, writes Confessore, would allow the Koch machine to “operate at the same financial scale as the Democratic and Republican Parties.”
==============
Stand Together Chamber of Commerce, replaced the Koch network’s Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce (previously the Association for American Innovation), which folded in May 2019.[1] It describes its mission as “to advance its members’ common business interests by advancing the principles of free markets and a free society. The organization works to educate the public and policymakers about the business and economic impacts of a broad range of policy issues, including over-regulation, government spending, cronyism, and special interest handouts.”[2]

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Stand_Together_Chamber_of_Commerce
SourceWatch reported that as of April, 2018, 12 people who previously worked at Freedom Partners were working in the Trump administration.

One of those was Marc Short, previously President of Freedom Partners, who became Director of Legislative Affairs for Trump. Short is now Chief of Staff to Vice President Mike Pence.
“According to a recent report by Reuters, the Ayn Rand Institute (ARI) took up to $1 million from the Paycheck Protection Program.

(wall street on parade)

https://aynrand.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ARI_Annual_Report_2019.pdf

#61 Disgruntled Tax Payer on 07.18.20 at 1:36 pm

Excellent Post!
I agree, charts should be posted on bulletin boards all across the country. Main stream media are apparently ignoring this. Why?
Social programs will be slashed; no more paying people to have kids they can’t afford. Primary residences will be taxed, sooner than Liberals planned.
It will be difficult for many people post pandemic. Doesn’t mean all is lost but you better develop a plan for your future employment and learn to live within your means.
Good luck to everyone, we’re all going to need it.

#62 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 1:45 pm

#141 MF on 07.18.20 at 9:02 am
133 Sky on 07.18.20 at 4:46 am

People will ignore the advice since it’s hard to follow. So the recommendation is something easier to follow like “workout 20 minutes a day of brisk walking”.

Most people ignore the 20 min a day exercise now. Does that mean we need to shame/police them to? Does their weakness not lead to getting sick and infecting others?

The virus penetrates these masks yes, but even a 97% penetration rate (your statistic, with no link posted of course) mean 3% protection…x2 if both people wear a mask.

This is wrong logic. If cloth masks prevent 3% of particles, these are big particles relative to the cloth weave. This does NOT mean it offers 3% protection as the virus can attach to 3% of big particles just as likely as it can attach to the 97% of the small particles that passes through.

Moreover you completely ignore the psychological element. These days, the masks make people “feel” safer.

Feeling safer is not what is being debated. Do masks ACTUALLY make things safer to which the WHO says no in a round about way. Masks are suppose to be used in addition to distancing and washing your hands. The WHO hopes all the tiny percentages of these efforts will slow the spread. Scientifically, distancing would be the most effective like with any other contagious virus followed by washing your hands as people like to sneeze into their hands.

#63 Dirty Dan on 07.18.20 at 1:53 pm

#16 Lucille on 07.18.20 at 10:34 am
Wow, he is so good looking.

Justin, you have my vote, sweetie :)

This is why it took so long for women’s suffrage to pass.
Looks like the old ways were around for a reason.

#64 Sail Away on 07.18.20 at 1:55 pm

#32 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:17 am

PS Ryan’s posts are so much better than Garth’s posts. Ryan should be blogging more frequently. Put Garth in a Covid19 free retirement home where he belongs…

———–

…he says, cheerfully taking a dump in his host’s living room

#65 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 2:02 pm

#3 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 9:40 am
A truly frightening financial scenario moving forward.

Those graphs should be on Billboards in every major city in this country…..

I wrote Paul Martin in the early 90’s BE (Before Email)when he was Finance Minister …and was shocked to recieve a handwritten, signed reply back.
A class act.
Unlike the self promoting, opportunistic hacks infesting every level of govt today.
perhaps if we all sent hand written letters to the current Finance Minister expressing our shock and disgust at the current level of spending …..
It would certainly have more impact than emails that dont make it past the “delete” button of his staffers…..
—————–
Sorry Crowded but I don’t think your letter writing campaign would work. Chateau Bill would know only super old school people (boomers) would be writing in that way so no need to even open the letters. Having the mail go straight to the shredder is probably route of you hand written letter.

Also, knowing that only boomers would take the time to hand write anything, Bill would know you aren’t the base they are pandering too so why would he care? Case in point, I don’t remember free money given to old people for covid-19 compared to the free $2K a month to soon to be voting age/living at home kids across the country. Just saying…

#66 Calgary retiree on 07.18.20 at 2:18 pm

#9 Dharma Bum on 07.18.20 at 10:06 am

“I gotta wake up to see that corrupt, virtue signalling, insincere apologist, incompetent, blackfaced, culture insulting, costume wearing, welfare spreading, drama teaching, scruffy bearded, lying, pipeline killing, pseudo feminist’s mug first thing in the morning?”
———————————————————–

But really, how do you feel about him?

#67 Handsome Ned on 07.18.20 at 2:22 pm

As much as I loathe the Liberal government, I have to give credit to T2 where credit is due. He is on his way to accomplishing one his major election planks; that is to bring the first nations into equality with the ROC. Unfortunately it will be by turning Canada into a giant Indian reserve where everyone will live in equal despair. The only difference is we will not be allowed to hunt all year with weapons on the banned list.

#68 dogman01 on 07.18.20 at 2:23 pm

Look at anyone under 40, crazy high house prices, education level inflation to get the few decent jobs remaining; huge student loans.

A environment where family wealth is more likely the cause of your success then effort.

We are going left and we are staying left.

House Tax, maybe Wealth tax and most certainly Inheritance Tax.

Be difficult and slippery, live quietly among the masses, Camouflage and Concealment….

#69 the Jaguar on 07.18.20 at 2:28 pm

RE: #32 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:17 am

If this is Ryan Lewenza’s brother Shawn, somebody is opening up a can of ‘Whup Ass’.

#70 dogman01 on 07.18.20 at 2:28 pm

#34 Keith on 07.16.20 at 3:59 pm

“You want people to vote for common sense economic policies, economic growth and fiscal discipline – invite them to join the club of meaningful participation in and contribution to society. People are going outlaw, working for cash, not filing tax returns because legitimate employment has turned into a suckers game for far too many occupations and far too many workers.”

Keith nailed it here, this is the macro society phenomena.

Vote left, then game the system.

How can anone expect in-group loyalty to a “Post National State”?

#71 Keith on 07.18.20 at 2:42 pm

Great post. Makes me wonder how other western democracies are doing, deficit and debt wise in this time of crisis.

#72 MF on 07.18.20 at 2:47 pm

#41 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.18.20 at 12:02 pm

“You are lucky that you live in Europe.
So this really does not affect you”

-Umm, I’ve got some bad news for you on that front…

MF

#73 SoggyShorts on 07.18.20 at 2:48 pm

#139 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.18.20 at 8:47 am
@121 Soggy Mask-
(Just so we’re clear, I am in favour of NO involuntary restrictions. On anything or anyone.)
****************************
That, to me, is insane as a blanket statement, and I can see that we will never reach an agreement now. I’ll answer your final questions and I guess that’ll be it.
—————————————

PS- If you demand that others wear masks then you are indeed a mask viligante. You’ve and others like you have decided what’s good for you is good for everyone else. If I’m misreading you and you go about your day as just a mask advocate and if you see someone without a mask you ignore it and go about your day then I may reconsider that stance.
************************
Half&Half I suppose. When at work I have 100% control of my workspace and everyone must wear the exact level of PPE that I(and the law) require of them (whichever is greater)
Outside of that space when I see people without a mask I might mentally shake my head, but that’s it.
——————————–
PPS- If you’re past your 14 day quarantine period and have no symptoms you aren’t “infected” with the “live” virus anymore. You don’t become a covid spreader for the rest of your life because of one positive test. You did have a positive test didn’t you? Or did you just assume?

********************************
No, I did not have a test.
Yes, of course I act as if I could be infected, that’s why I wear a mask to reduce the risk to others when social distancing isn’t possible during my essential work. (I thought that was very clear)
—————————
I’m done on this topic now before Garth makes Bandit lick me to death or something.

******************
Indeed, I think we’ve went in circles enough.

#74 tkid on 07.18.20 at 2:51 pm

Venezuela here we come. It is now time to get your savings out of the country before it is too late.

#75 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.18.20 at 2:52 pm

All the usual suspects are posting.
Critizising is easy. I always tell my employees it’s okay to critizise me, but make sure you have better solution.
As a CPA, I like my books balanced.
So, we have that massive debt. What do we have have to show for on the asset side.
Mostly intangibles, I must say.
Robust health care system, no riots, people have money to spend, fewer bankrupts etc.
You get the drift.
Try to find some positive examples yourselves. It will make you feel better about the future.
And let the Fauci be with you.

#76 cuke and tomato picker on 07.18.20 at 3:30 pm

I am in cash.Also we in BC /Victoria are living the best
life a person could ask for. We are all looking getting ready for NHL hockey GO CANUCKS GO.ENJOY

#77 Gramps on 07.18.20 at 3:35 pm

Worst dog photo ever

#78 Dan Gagnon on 07.18.20 at 3:36 pm

Shawn, I am not surprised. I don’t know why Trudeau, Morneau Liberals would do only 15% to 20% HST. Come on, if a 1 percentage point increase is about $12 billion a year, they should make it 100% HST rate. This is from 13% to 100%. This way they can collect $1.044 trillion a year in extra taxes.

Even if they could get all that extra money, they would still be in deficit and debts would accumulate year after year. They are economic hit men to destroy Canada.

Oh wait, they will kill the economy and will get less taxes. I wonder hwy the Liberals are so slow to raise taxes, just a little at a time. They planned all this and the covid just accelerated it by maybe 5 years in advance but they would do it the same, large deficits and debts that is. They are thieves and it is that simple.

#79 Camille on 07.18.20 at 3:37 pm

Thank you Ryan for the most elegant post (funny comment wants to put Garth in old home and have you replace him). When I was millennial age, I had the deficit and debt explained to me by my money manager and banker friends; being a scientist this needed explaining. However, I could not feel their pain: I wonder if anyone will feel it.
In your prognoses, what about leaving taxes be and simply increasing debt year over year, like Japan? And currency, its all relative, sort of, no?

#80 Sail Away on 07.18.20 at 4:00 pm

#76 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.18.20 at 2:52 pm

Critizising is easy.

—————–

So is criticizing.

Now spelling, on the other hand is an entirely different ball of wax.

#81 T on 07.18.20 at 4:15 pm

#141 MF on 07.18.20 at 9:02 am
133 Sky on 07.18.20 at 4:46 am
#63 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 1:45 pm

————

It must be very hard to understand the point of wearing masks is to stop the spread of a virus / infection.

This is why doctors wear masks, so they don’t infect others with something they have whether it be a virus or bacteria. Just the same as frequent hand washing and gloves. Take a look back in medical history and you will find infection and death rates of patients drastically declined after doctors started washing up and dawning masks before procedures.

This is not a difficult concept to understand, but so many people are unable to wrap their heads around it.

#82 Faron on 07.18.20 at 4:20 pm

Sorry Garth or Ryan, last post:

#122 Deplorable Dude on 07.17.20 at 11:42 pm
#92 Jal…” About CERB ….

I did not read any better alternative proposals”

——————

Should have been an interest free loan repayable over 5 or 10 years

Were I a policy maker, I would support a form of this. My additions:

One time cash payout so Immediate funds delivery to prevent the economic shock of sudden work stoppage

Run it through the the banks (like ppp in the US) and allow a piecework fee so banks are compensated for their time.

Do it as a credit line

Not sure if credit reporting agencies should be involved, could see both sides

Would need a facility to help the unbanked

Maybe longer repayment timeline? I see 10year min.

Rate is median 5yr fixed mortgage rate or something meaningful to inspire payback but not be punitive.

Cannot be used as registered acct. contrib or invested (dont know how to control the latter). Keeps funds in the economy where needed.

Everyone who takes that form of assistance has some skin in the game. This would actually help people fight covid as well. Their loan clock is ticking…

#83 T on 07.18.20 at 4:33 pm

#81 Sail Away on 07.18.20 at 4:00 pm
#76 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.18.20 at 2:52 pm

Critizising is easy.

—————–

So is criticizing.

Now spelling, on the other hand is an entirely different ball of wax.

———

Trolling. The new lowest form of comedy.

#84 SoggyShorts on 07.18.20 at 4:37 pm

#77 cuke and tomato picker on 07.18.20 at 3:30 pm
I am in cash.
*********************
I think I saw you say this before. If I may ask, when did you move to cash, and what (roughly) was your portfolio allocation like before that?

#85 WEXIT on 07.18.20 at 4:39 pm

Excellent column, could not be better. I made my mind up during the NEP, and T1. After going through that, I did not want anything to do with Eastern Canada, and I have been proven correct.

I like the part about “ Garth’s pal, the Honourable Steven Harper,”

All the best to you.

#86 NoName on 07.18.20 at 5:02 pm

#81 Sail Away on 07.18.20 at 4:00 pm
#76 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.18.20 at 2:52 pm

Critizising is easy.

—————–

So is criticizing.

Now spelling, on the other hand is an entirely different ball of wax.

Spelling is hard, everithing else, easy.

#87 Karen on 07.18.20 at 5:08 pm

Farron, I for one appreciate what the low-lives around here patronizingly refer to as you being”emotional”. Don’t listen to them. They have low EQ (some have low IQ) and confuse strength with weakness.

#88 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 07.18.20 at 5:18 pm

Some Great News -Thank You Justin!!!!

BLUE JAYS BANNED FROM PLAYING IN CANADA!!!

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-blue-jays-denied-government-approval-play-home-games-toronto/

So Toronturds and GTAHoles will have one less pathetic losing franchise to see this year!!! YAYYYYYY!!!

Think of all the benefits!

-Reduced street and domestic violence in the GTA
-Fewer suicides of loser fans
-Reduction in depression caseload at local hospitals
-More time for Toronturds to gamble on glassy condos and keep their real estate bubble delusion alive – hey, you really are a world class city!

Less losing means Toronto now might just have a chance to make it into the top 300 cities in Canada!

WOOHOO!!!!!!

#89 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.18.20 at 5:24 pm

I say leave Trudeau and Morneau right where they are, don’t let them smash and grab Canada, and then have someone else have to clean up the mess. Grab them by the ears and hand them a broom.

Ignore all the nonsense he and his ilk bring with him, ie. calling the average Canadian racist, the endless apocalyptic events, the genocide accusations, the denial of gender yet enforced gender balance, all of it. It’s the ramblings of imbeciles… Designed to infuriate the moderate citizen.

Leave them in Ottawa and swamp them in work, make them suffer the consequences of their decisions. I’d say until they rot, but they’re already rotten.

#90 Dolce Vita on 07.18.20 at 5:24 pm

Annos horribilis —> Decennium horribilis.

What Trudeau did to Canada fiscally is unforgivable.

We have EI and Welfare.

CERB is nothing more than face saving money for people to conceal the fact they cannot manage their financial affairs and to keep them afloat.

It used to be Creative Destruction, bad economic players such as these miscreants would be taken out of the economy and the money they would have squandered put in the hands of others to renew the economy, the nation.

Instead, they are rewarded by Trudeau, allowed to continue their maleficent economic ways (and morals…better to stay at home, collect “free money” than to work, do not pay rent, the list of misdeeds goes on).

He and they will be the ruin of Canada for a decade, or more.

There will be no economic renewal Ryan (and Garth) only economic misery. 8.34 million of them, 40% of the workforce…a powerful voting block and Trudeau knows this well.

We are ruined.

#91 TurnerNation on 07.18.20 at 5:29 pm

Gotta hand it to our global rulers.
For decades they told us we have freedom (we don’t).
Now they tell us we all are sick (we’re not).

One generation of kids got Duck and Cover training – Cold War propaganda.
Another generation got sent overseas or handed free drugs at home (Viet Nam).
Another generation got sent overseas and got Gulf War syndrome.
Another generation had their kids names added to secrative ‘ No fly lists’ by mistake. And listening to non stop t3rror alert levels. Orange, Red.
All propaganda.
Say where is Al-Q and IS these days? Not scary enough or are no more freedom left to ‘hate’?
Today kids are taught the unmasked are unclean. Heathens.

Time for your afternoon CV Rituals. You are unclean and must attone.
Say 12 Hail CV mantras “Stay safe/be safe” whilst rubbing your hands together using the holy liquid – The Purelle – for purity!
It will drive away any invisible unclean spirits left in your body. You cannot set them but there are present and shall not be mocked. Yes the news gives us fake stores about mockers and celebrities. Oh how they get struck down. This is the new global religion.
All other culture is cancelled.

#92 Flop... on 07.18.20 at 5:32 pm

Memories.

Fuzzy little things sometimes

Back in late 1998, early 1999 I was in the whirlwind of selling my house and all my possessions and going to travel the world.

Politically at the time, the two biggest issues I remember were the Australian Liberals trying to get re-elected with the promise to bring in a GST, despite previously saying the would never do it.

I have never paid a cent in GST in Australia to my knowledge.

The other issue and reason I will bring up work for the dole is because of CERB, and in general people getting money for nothing and the incentive to work.

The last time I felt this kind of environment was way back then, when the feeling was that there was too many slackers in society, and if you were going to get money from the government you should be contributing something or trying to upgrade your employment skills in some way.

I think Australia has gone further to the left since back then overall.

It seems like COVID has brought some of the old problems to the surface again.

The Canadian Conservatives don’t seem to have much of a platform to get voters to swing back to the right, and giving out goodies seems popular right now but maybe just before the trunk of the tree splits , because the debt branch is too heavy, they could do worse than trying to suggest some form of self-improvement for the dole as an election idea next time around instead of trying to be Liberal-Light…

M46BC

John Howard was re-elected leader of the Liberal party in 1995, and pledged “never, ever” to introduce the GST.[7] Howard led the Liberal-National Coalition to a large victory in the 1996 federal election. However, following a decision of the High Court that franchise fees charged by the states on cigarettes, alcohol and fuel was unconstitutional, removing revenue from the states and territories, Howard saw the need for the states to have autonomy on a portion of their revenue.

Before the 1998 election, Howard proposed a GST that would replace all existing sales taxes, as well as applying to all goods and services. At the election, the Howard Government suffered a swing against it of 4.61% at the election, achieving a two-party-preferred voteof only 49.02%, compared with Labor on 50.98%. Nevertheless, the incumbent government retained a majority of seats in the lower house and Howard described the election win as a “mandate for the GST”. Lacking a Senate majority, and with Labor opposed to the introduction of the GST, the government turned to the minor parties such as the Australian Democrats to gain the necessary support to get the necessary legislation through the Senate.”

————————————————-

“Work for the Dole is an Australian Government program that is a form of workfare, or work-based welfare. It was first permanently enacted in 1998, having been trailed in 1997. It is one means by which job seekers can satisfy the ‘mutual obligation requirements’ to receive the Newstart Allowance, now replaced by the JobSeeker Payment. Other ‘mutual obligation’ measures can include: accredited study, part-time work, Army Reserves, and volunteer work.

Under the Howard Government, the scheme was compulsory and targeted the long-term unemployed. Shortly after the Rudd Government was formed it became voluntary. From 1 July 2015, Work for the Dole became effectively compulsory for the majority of Newstart Allowance recipients.[1] On 20 March 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, Work for the Dole was suspended alongside all other mutual obligation requirements until 9 June.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_the_Dole

#93 Nonplused on 07.18.20 at 5:38 pm

What do you get when you cross a mafioso and a central banker?

They make you an offer that you can’t understand.

——————————

Unfortunately, Ryan, I don’t think any of your 3 scenarios are going to work in long run.

“I see only three potential outcomes. First, the government spending helps usher in a recovery and higher economic growth over the long-run making it easier to pay back the debt and getting the situation under control (laughable).” – agreed laughable. If government deficits lead to sustainable growth somebody would have discovered that by now.

“Second, the current (or future) government finally see’s the errors of its ways and slashes spending similar to that seen under Paul Martin and put our country on a path to a balanced budget (highly unlikely).” – Now that CERB is out of the bag some sort of UBI is almost a given and it’s deficits from here on out.

“Finally, the last and most likely scenario to address our record deficits are through sizable increases in taxes. If I was a betting man I would bet on the higher taxes option, given this government’s previous track record.” – They may attempt this but there isn’t anything left out there to tax! They could attempt to squeeze the 1% a little harder but that isn’t going to move the flag. They could attempt something like a capital gains tax on primary residences but that is only going to further impoverish retirees. (Second properties whether cabins or rentals are already subject to capital gains taxes.) They could raise the HST but that would hit everybody and reduce economic activity. We are at peak tax already.

So my forecast would be that this red mark is going to just sit on the books for a very, very long time.

#94 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.18.20 at 5:38 pm

#88 Karen on 07.18.20 at 5:08 pm emotes;

“Farron, I for one appreciate what the low-lives around here patronizingly refer to as you being”emotional”. Don’t listen to them. They have low EQ (some have low IQ) and confuse strength with weakness.”
————————————————–
Hi Blackdog!

#95 Barb on 07.18.20 at 5:38 pm

#32 Shawn on 07.18.20 at 11:17 am

What a disgusting and undignified statement to post.

But perhaps your parents remain proud of you…

#96 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 5:43 pm

#82 T on 07.18.20 at 4:15 pm
#141 MF on 07.18.20 at 9:02 am
133 Sky on 07.18.20 at 4:46 am
#63 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 1:45 pm

————

It must be very hard to understand the point of wearing masks is to stop the spread of a virus / infection.

This is why doctors wear masks, so they don’t infect others with something they have whether it be a virus or bacteria. Just the same as frequent hand washing and gloves. Take a look back in medical history and you will find infection and death rates of patients drastically declined after doctors started washing up and dawning masks before procedures.

This is not a difficult concept to understand, but so many people are unable to wrap their heads around it.
———–
Do people who know very little of something realize their state of being while professing implied knowledge for a subject matter which isn’t definitive as something absolute?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery

“As a result, we recommend caution in extrapolating their findings to contemporary surgical practice. However, overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination. More rigorous contemporary research is needed to make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks.”

What will be spat out next? That 95% of scientists agree climate change is man-made and it’s definitive proof?

#97 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.18.20 at 5:46 pm

@ #92 TurnerNation on 07.18.20 at 5:29 pm:

————————————-
That was beautiful. You really missed your calling. You could write exceptional dystopian novels.

Are you Michael Snyder?

BTW I didn’t say you’re not hitting the mark. I think you’re throwing strikes.

#98 The joys of steerage on 07.18.20 at 5:46 pm

#92 TurnerNation on 07.18.20 at 5:29 pm

You might want to stop mainlining the clorex dude….

#99 It was on 07.18.20 at 5:53 pm

After the discuss of reading this article, what is it going to take for Canadians to realize we have to get rid of this government. The liberals good very Well be the dimize of all are rights and freedoms. By the commentd read it appears the political diaper boy is wrong. Canadians do care about deficits

#100 Stone on 07.18.20 at 6:08 pm

#51 Red Menace on 07.18.20 at 12:36 pm
Today’s picture is an apt one in that it shows a bloom of red behind our Prime Minister as if to suggest the storm of deficits that have engulfed us.

We simply cannot afford these expenditures. I am very disappointed in the current Federal government for its profligacy and its coy response to inquiries as to how it proposes to deal with the deficits. While there are other sovereign nations that face similar or possibly worse deficits, I think Canada is perhaps one of the most vulnerable in that we have laid the seeds of dissolution of our population’s desire to achieve, to work, and to act responsibly. We also don’t have sufficient population growth nor a strong enough base in our economy to support economic growth that in turn would yield higher tax revenue. I think that our credit rating will take another tumble and continued deficits will mean higher interest rates as we will become a greater risk as a borrower.

Honestly, I believe we went off the rails when Pierre Elliot Trudeau was first elected. He was one of the first politicians, not unlike Kennedy in the USA, who was easy to sell through the media versus the ponderous, long-faced Robert Stanfield, the best prime minister we never had. And now, Justin Trudeau heads a government that is even more profligate with the public purse than his father. What I find equally disturbing is that instead of good public policy we are now faced with the grim spectre of a government that thinks more about how to appease a demanding and fractious electorate and its desire for more than what we need to do to ensure our country will survive.

Where does this end? I agree with the author of today’s blog that we are facing many more years of deficits, substantially higher taxes, and a diminishing of our great country on the world stage. We will not be able to attract immigrants, nor participate in global policy initiatives, or for that matter even be taken seriously. In short, we are in for many years of diminishing expectations and reduced circumstances.

———

And that is why you need a large international exposure in your balanced and globally diversified portfolio.

I don’t plan to diminish my expectations nor reduce my circumstances as a result.

Outside of that, I agree with everything else.

#101 Steven Rowlandson on 07.18.20 at 6:09 pm

Alas Canada’s quest for responsible government has failed…… Totally! Put it in a pine box and bury it.

#102 Stan Brooks on 07.18.20 at 6:09 pm

The interpretation of Keynes’s ideas by the today’s ‘economists’ is laughable.

Of course government has to incentivize spending at difficult times in order to support aggregate demand.

However that works within certain limits that assume:
1. Existence of actual savings (we have none, our savings rate is laughable)
2. Control of credit (specially at good times, we run huge credit increases at those good times)
3. Government spending is actually based on savings and investors, not on pure money printing (BoC buys all the government bonds at the rate of 1 billion a day as there are no other buyers).

The idea that we can beat consistently the credit cycle with more credit and we can work out a perpetual perpetum mobile ‘growing’ machine and that all problems will be solved with money printing will lead to one thing only – the total destruction of currency. First gradual and then unstoppable.

Seen it in action in person. You need no hyperinflation to destroy the economy and value of currency. Inflation of 10-15 % for 1-1.5 decades with rates stuck at zero is more than enough.

In the last 15-18 years house prices in certain areas of GTA like Vaughan, Mississauga have increased 6-10 times.

We will either revert to the mean historical growth which implies decline of 80 % + or cause the total destruction of currency in our persistence to maintain ‘valuations’.

The idea that deposits created on-the-go by the fractional reserve banking system when a new home loan is originated are actual ‘savings’ is laughable.

A lot of pain on the horizon.

Cheers and enjoy,

#103 Covid 19 Debt on 07.18.20 at 6:17 pm

I’m not affiliated to any one political party but no matter who the Prime Minister was when Covid 19 started, he or she would have also had to run a massive budget deficit to see us through this pandemic . Most governments around the world have gone the same route.

#104 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.18.20 at 6:24 pm

#83 Faron on 07.18.20 at 4:20 pm

—-

As much as I dislike giving you any more oxygen (CO2 in this case) than you already consume every single blog, I believe Peter McKay did propose something similar to this;

Tax free loan from RSP, akin to First Home Buyers, Life long learning… I think he even suggest it be unlimited…

#105 Jeff on 07.18.20 at 6:27 pm

Canada will become a northern Argentina.
Here’s why…
http://www.poletical.com/canada-black-market-currency.php

#106 -=withwings=- on 07.18.20 at 6:27 pm

If scheer had won, things would have been so much different because he would have_______________.

a) followed Trump into a disaster
b) allowed everyone/business to go bankrupt personally
c) had a great amazing plan to balance the budget with magic
d)______________ (fill in the blank)

#107 Ronaldo on 07.18.20 at 6:28 pm

#154 Faron on 07.18.20 at 3:53 pm
#144 Phylis on 07.18.20 at 9:57 am

#125 Ronaldo on 07.17.20 at 11:51 pm
#87 Bill Grable

Maybe the hockey bags have finally stopped showing up at the casinos (pandemic or otherwise) and has delayed the bulk return to the banks

Ha, i bet that isn’t far from the truth. Between casinos and RE, i have to wonder what percentage of Canada’s money laundering happens in the Fraser Valley? Some time in the future a winter crash on the Coquihalla will emit a plume of hundred dollar bills into a snowy night.
—————————————————————-
Or maybe the plan is to do a recall on all outstanding 50s and 100s and replacing them with new bills. Those holding the old ones would have a certain amount of time to turn them in for the new ones. Anyone holding the old notes after that certain date would become worthless. Might be a good way to get back some of that 343 billion that has recently been created. I wonder how many would come forward with those bagfulls of those old 50s and 100s? Just a thought.

#108 Ryan Lewenza on 07.18.20 at 6:33 pm

Oracle of Ottawa “Thanks Ryan for the reality check. Do you see the printing presses starting up and inflation at some point.”

Ultimately yes but I think we’re still some years away from this happening. I see lots of deflationary trends (low commodity prices, aging populations, technology advancements etc.) which should help to keep inflation low in the medium term. But inflation should ultimately show up from all this money printing. – Ryan L

#109 Figus Makum on 07.18.20 at 6:37 pm

Putin’s Plan Prevails
Socialism leads to Communism.
So, how do you create a Socialistic State?

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty – Increase the poverty level as high as possible. Poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control – Remove the ability to defend themselves. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect (food, housing, income) of their lives because that will make them fully dependent on the government.

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to and take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion – Remove the belief in God. The people need to believe that only the government knows what is best for the people.

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. Eliminate the middle class. This will cause more discontent making it easier to tax the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Are we heading down Putin’s Path?

#110 Criminally Negligent Unions & Management on 07.18.20 at 6:39 pm

Contracting out. Enough said.

#111 LG on 07.18.20 at 6:41 pm

Thanks for your post Ryan.
Earlier this week Garth wrote, “The bottom comes when most folks shed hope. It seems we’re not far off.” (Speaking about doomer blog comments).

I feel this way about our Federal government, “the bottom” and “shedding hope”.

#112 Drinking on 07.18.20 at 6:44 pm

#59 GRG

Great post; one just cannot make that up!

Great Blog today Ryan; the charts are an eye opener. Cannot say what the end result will be; raise taxes, how, millions are unemployed, environuts are not allowing us to be the most prosperous country in the world within reasonable laws. I keep harping that cash is King, I am just not seeing a reasonable way out of this mess! Stay safe everyone!

#113 BlogDog123 on 07.18.20 at 6:47 pm

Very frustrating that the Trudeau government cares so little about these items below:

– Productivity Gains
– National Security
– The importance of a motivated workforce
– Accountability
– Honesty
– Answering questions clearly

Trudeau seems to care more about making himself look good and pleasing his eco- and charity friends.

#114 Ryan Lewenza on 07.18.20 at 6:50 pm

Camille “hank you Ryan for the most elegant post (funny comment wants to put Garth in old home and have you replace him). When I was millennial age, I had the deficit and debt explained to me by my money manager and banker friends; being a scientist this needed explaining. However, I could not feel their pain: I wonder if anyone will feel it. In your prognoses, what about leaving taxes be and simply increasing debt year over year, like Japan? And currency, its all relative, sort of, no?”

I stand corrected. There are 4 options and this is one of them. But it’s a very undesirable option. Stealing a phrase from another economist, “Japan is a windshield in search of a bug”. If you think Canada is in trouble with all this debt, then Japan is absolutely doomed with their debt to GDP ratio of 200%. So we shouldn’t be modelling ourselves after Japan. – Ryan L

#115 Ronaldo on 07.18.20 at 6:54 pm

#6 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 9:59 am
@#125 Ronaldo
“People are now hoarding cash insted of toilet paper.”
++++

A minor correction if I may…..
If the Liberals continue to spend us into a bottomless pit of debt and our dollar tanks…..

People will hoard cash to USE as toilet paper….
—————————————————————
Funny, I was actually thinking of that when I wrote the post. I better get those 50s and hundreds cashed in before they become obsolete.

#116 John in MTL on 07.18.20 at 6:55 pm

First let me say that I consider myself a fiscal conservative, but that I would never vote for what the CPC has become since 2003. So I am kind of stuck voting for whoever will beat the Bloc in my riding of Montreal.

I usually enjoy your posts but I think there are a few shortcomings in this one.

How relevant is the 55% figure when 2 fifths of our federal debt will be due to a once-in-a-century pandemic, nevermind the non constant dollars used here.

Also, I agree that JT should have ran balanced budget from 2015 to 2019 given the state of the economy, but these deficits also contributed to slashing child poverty by a third. Now give me the choice between reducing child poverty along with a still declining debt-to-GDP ratio, or balance the budget, and I won’t hesitate to pick the former. The fact that Harper barely balanced the budget a peak oil suggests we were already running structural deficits. No bueno either.

Also, lack of comparison to other relevant jurisdictions. The US may hit a 5 to 6 trillion deficit this year. They ran a 4-5% deficit to GDP last year with sub-4% unemployment. Most of Europe is a mess.

This year’s deficit is huge, and some programs could have been better targeted. However given the urgency of the moment in March/April, they can be forgiven. They won’t be forgiven for any mismanagement if there is a second wave this fall. They’ve had time to do their homework. For example, the CERB equivalent for students was dumb and a net negative for businesses this summer.

Have a good weekend, and stay safe

#117 Wrk.dover on 07.18.20 at 6:59 pm

Ryan, in T1’s day debt was actually rented money in the from of CDN savings bonds and such that benefited the masses that bought them for as rainy day savings and got growth.

Now there is no opportunity for anyone to benefit from holding the debt.

Until T2’s debts start to actually pay rent above near 0%, I don’t see any problem at all. Nor will we.

Madoff rule #1.

#118 Rick on 07.18.20 at 7:00 pm

You were kind to the Trudeaus; you did not include inflation to your numbers. I suggest, it would be much greater than 55 %.

#119 Beetman on 07.18.20 at 7:01 pm

Just talked to my sister, she owns her own painting company. She had a employee she was paying $25.00 per hr. Not counting perks and year end bonuses etc.
Any way this employee decided she needed time off to rest and spend more time with her family. So she quit and is now getting cerb money. Thanks Justin you just turned a perfectly useful individual into a useless #f”%v )f #f”@ just like you are. Absolutely disgusting what you are doing to this country.

#120 Irwin on 07.18.20 at 7:15 pm

“If I was a betting man I would bet on the higher taxes option, given this government’s previous track record.”

Eric Lascelles @RBCGAMChiefEcon has a different view.
“As many countries run huge fiscal deficits, we look at whether taxes might have to rise to pay for all of the extra debt. Surprisingly, this is far from automatic based on the four key criteria we review.”

https://www.rbcgam.com/en/ca/article/macromemo-july-13-july-17-2020/detail?utm_id=wm8351760101096958?disclaimer

#121 Love_The_Cottage on 07.18.20 at 7:23 pm

I’m guessing Garth gave you some tips on how to increase the comments on your posts. No actual advice, just stoking the embers. Nicely done.

Should CERB have been smaller? Probably. Should the extension been smaller? Absolutely, I was hoping for a 10% reduction. Did you productively add to the dialog? Negative.

#122 S.O on 07.18.20 at 7:25 pm

CMHC just gave UBC over two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to find ways too tax home owners. This is the university who came up with the foreign buyers tax for BC, and has stated numerous times that home owners are getting a free ride on their home values. Its coming

#123 Joseph R. on 07.18.20 at 7:28 pm

#110 Figus Makum on 07.18.20 at 6:37 pm

Are we heading down Putin’s Path?

———————————————————

No.

#124 cuke and tomato pickere on 07.18.20 at 7:29 pm

A letter to the editor in the Victoria Times Colonist lists what the homeless get for free – a motel/hotel room-food-boxed meals 2 times a day-cloths-smartphones-cable tv-storage for their extras-laundry- self help people-security-health care-drugs etc- full wrap around
support -transportation – garbage removable –

#125 nick on 07.18.20 at 7:30 pm

Well to be fair, if Andrew Sheer had been elected and had to steer Canada through this mess, would we really expect him to run a balanced budget? If you take out the 300 billion for the pandemic then the math is a little different. A total debt of 700 billion of which the PCs would be responsible for 452 billion, the Libs 248 – or 65% and 35% respectively. T2 at just 97 billion. Yes, it’s easy to criticize having the benefit of hindsight how and where the money should have been spent, but it’s not like there’s a playbook for pandemics.. all governments are overspending… I just hope they can come up with a plan to ween everyone off all the handouts and find us a Paul Martin type to balance the books…

#126 Entrepreneur on 07.18.20 at 7:38 pm

Commenters who suggest voting T2 in again are so wrong!

Some voters thought the same when the BC Liberals were in power (kept ignoring us, the taxpayers) but were re-elected because some voters thought “let them wear it” but the Liberals just kept on “ignoring.”

And that is 20 years of “ignoring” and more taxing. What a terrible political party to be governing our province, our country (who is really governing our country, globalist?)

Stop the CERB! Get people back to work (no matter how much they were paid). Like someone said we do have Welfare, EI. I think Singh is way off on this matter.

Now we really know how to combat this coronavirus in the butt (wear a mask, wash hands, distancing, and build the immunity up). WHO was really slow on the handling this thought process and for businesses in our country.

And one thing or a couple of things that the virus has taught us is that Small Businesses is the driving force, the foundation to survive as a Nation, and second thing, to protect our people within the borders.

Why? The cherry on top answer: To slow down, respect our earth and harmonize together (most people, the taxpayer, basic needs are food, clothes, and shelter.)

Something to think about.

#127 Karen on 07.18.20 at 7:48 pm

#95, You must have me confused with another poster, not that I care as you are a dumb version of SA.

#128 MF on 07.18.20 at 7:54 pm

T on 07.18.20 at 4:15 p

It’s very easy to understand the anti mask group.

The mask to them is politicized. Not wearing it is a statement. It can be a statement against anyone or anything they disagree with these days. It doesn’t matter if it’s a figment of their imagination or not (it usually is though). That can mean a statement against: the current elected government, chief medical officers, educated people, invisible elites, liberalism, communism, globalism, etc.

I bet if you dig a little below the surface, you’ll see they actually don’t mind wearing one, and agree it’s effective. They are just being stubborn and dogmatic.

MF

#129 Sail Away on 07.18.20 at 8:19 pm

#95 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.18.20 at 5:38 pm
#88 Karen on 07.18.20 at 5:08 pm emotes;

“Farron, I for one appreciate what the low-lives around here patronizingly refer to as you being”emotional”. Don’t listen to them. They have low EQ (some have low IQ) and confuse strength with weakness.”

—————-

Hi Blackdog!

—————-

Yep. Every once in a while she creeps out of her den of discontent, throws a few haymakers far wide of the mark, gets roundly criticized (see that, Ponze?) and retreats to let the wounds heal.

#130 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 8:52 pm

For you mask lovers, are you sure you are following the advice of the “experts”. Apparently, having sex with covid-19 is more risky than having it with someone with HIV. Do your part!

“Wear a face covering or mask. Heavy breathing during sex can create more droplets that may transmit COVID-19.

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/prevention-risks/covid-19-and-sex

#131 T on 07.18.20 at 8:53 pm

#97 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 5:43 pm
#82 T on 07.18.20 at 4:15 pm
#141 MF on 07.18.20 at 9:02 am
133 Sky on 07.18.20 at 4:46 am
#63 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 1:45 pm

————

It must be very hard to understand the point of wearing masks is to stop the spread of a virus / infection.

This is why doctors wear masks, so they don’t infect others with something they have whether it be a virus or bacteria. Just the same as frequent hand washing and gloves. Take a look back in medical history and you will find infection and death rates of patients drastically declined after doctors started washing up and dawning masks before procedures.

This is not a difficult concept to understand, but so many people are unable to wrap their heads around it.
———–
Do people who know very little of something realize their state of being while professing implied knowledge for a subject matter which isn’t definitive as something absolute?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery

“As a result, we recommend caution in extrapolating their findings to contemporary surgical practice. However, overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination. More rigorous contemporary research is needed to make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks.”

What will be spat out next? That 95% of scientists agree climate change is man-made and it’s definitive proof?

————

All you have to do is look into the history of mortality rates of mothers and children during childbirth, and what practices drastically reduced deaths from infection of mother’s and children, and you will find real answers.

Quote whatever article you want, this is non-debatable fact.

#132 short horses on 07.18.20 at 8:55 pm

Great post, Ryan. The figures are becoming alarming!

In a future post, could you give your take on what choices the government took immediately following WWII, and the likelihood they would or would not implement those same choices today? Are there factors that would make the government more or less likely to do what worked in the past?

#133 T on 07.18.20 at 9:06 pm

#129 MF on 07.18.20 at 7:54 pm
T on 07.18.20 at 4:15 p

It’s very easy to understand the anti mask group.

The mask to them is politicized. Not wearing it is a statement. It can be a statement against anyone or anything they disagree with these days. It doesn’t matter if it’s a figment of their imagination or not (it usually is though). That can mean a statement against: the current elected government, chief medical officers, educated people, invisible elites, liberalism, communism, globalism, etc.

I bet if you dig a little below the surface, you’ll see they actually don’t mind wearing one, and agree it’s effective. They are just being stubborn and dogmatic.

MF

————

I agree with you, there are many who have politicized masks. However, there are many who think they are highly intelligent and believe they know better than what science has proven. These people go out and search for articles which support their biases and ignore all data except what they agree with. Some of them even believe they are very stable geniuses. There’s a few on this blog whom have been commenting much more frequently lately.

What this shows is Canada needs to slow down the reopening of the economy. The same mentality on display in the US exists in Canada. They won’t take precautions for the good of others, they will refute science, and they will catch and spread everywhere. I hope this is not the case, but I’ve seen it first hand in the US. Beware.

#134 PeterfromCalgary on 07.18.20 at 9:12 pm

DELETED

#135 Inflation Nation on 07.18.20 at 9:35 pm

If T2 taxes PR gains it will be inflationary- sellers will add it on top, like commission etc
like builders add hst, it’s blended in the price= the buyers amortizes a tax -it’s interest on tax for 25 yrs

Morneau’s last real estate intervention led to people not renting out as much, for obvious reasons

#136 BCWally on 07.18.20 at 9:52 pm

I have to agree with a lot of this, but especially from Red Menace. It’s the world investment community that will stop the spending when they demand higher rates to lend to Canada. I guess you can say love and liberal idealism is financially blind.
Obviously that will crush real estate and excessive borrowing next.
Maybe, in the end it might be a good thing. We could go back to the Canada of my immigrant parents where a living was earned through risk, financial competence, and hard work. Savings would be rewarded with decent interest too. Yeah I know, good luck right?

#137 Sydneysider on 07.18.20 at 10:10 pm

#129 MF

Those who wear masks are deprived of their public identities, and are restricted in their ability to communicate with others via facial expressions and speech. One step away from the mask is the muzzle, which is a tool for control of dangerous dogs.

Forcing people to wear masks for disease control is counterproductive. They will just spit when nobody is looking.

#138 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 10:10 pm

#132 T on 07.18.20 at 8:53 pm
#97 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 5:43 pm
#82 T on 07.18.20 at 4:15 pm
#141 MF on 07.18.20 at 9:02 am
133 Sky on 07.18.20 at 4:46 am
#63 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 1:45 pm

————
All you have to do is look into the history of mortality rates of mothers and children during childbirth, and what practices drastically reduced deaths from infection of mother’s and children, and you will find real answers.

Quote whatever article you want, this is non-debatable fact.
———-
Let me get this straight because I’m a bit slow. You claim your argument is the right one and imply it is scientifically proven but then when someone brings up a recent study done by scientists that says don’t make that conclusion just yet, you then double down and dismiss the study and quote unnamed mothers and children mortality to conflate some more?

I don’t know how to respond to that. I truly understand now how unhinged some people are. Blinded by a belief, not open to any other possibility other than something that aligns with their preconceived biases.

Imagine if the “experts” didn’t flip flop and maintained that the general public didn’t benefit from wearing masks. Would you be still as strong in your conviction that they are saving lives? Or would you be repeating whatever your Facebook group is saying?

#139 YouKnowWho on 07.18.20 at 10:29 pm

Since MARCH 27th!!!! …NO ONE calls ANY PASSANGER on a flight that came in with confirmed cases of Covid-19?

Not only should the flights not be flying in the first play, but…this? What? We don’t have enough people to employ to do this if we’re going to allow flights?

Hey, be sure to disinfect your hands and be sure to wear your masks. 1 person at a time in the store. Suckers.

>
Why nobody told you about that COVID-19 case on your flight, and why that spells trouble

If you were on Air Canada Flight 311 on July 8, flying from Montreal to Vancouver, at least one other passenger on your flight, seated somewhere in rows 12 to 18, had COVID-19.

In fact, in the first nine days of this month, there were 14 other domestic flights with confirmed cases of COVID-19 on board. Another 22 international flights arrived with at least one positive case, originating from such places as Charlotte, N.C., and Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

All of the above is on the Government of Canada’s website, buried deep in a section covering “locations where you may have been exposed to COVID-19.” You can also find some of it tucked away on provincial websites, such as that of the BC Centre for Disease Control.

But if you were on one of these flights, you may be wondering why this is all news to you. You may be wondering why you weren’t ever called by a public-health agency, or told to get tested, or ordered to self-isolate.

So are we.

Canada’s response to COVID-19, which these past four months has leaned heavily on the blunt and destructive instrument of economic lockdown, has delivered results. The country is set up for a reopening. For now, Canada looks to be in a good place.

However, additional waves of the virus are possible and even likely, and the goal must be for the country to be prepared to fend off the adversary without resorting to another economic shutdown. This country has to give itself finely engineered tools, so it can defeat future outbreaks with surgical strikes, rather than a return to carpet bombing the economy.

This is where Canadians should be worried. Over the past five months, Ottawa and the provinces have shown a talent for rolling out multibillion dollar rescue packages; their record is less good when it comes to taking steps – much less costly steps – to prevent massive, economy-wide bailouts.

An example of where governments have got it right with small investments forestalling big losses, is the way B.C. protected temporary foreign workers in agriculture, and the province’s agriculture sector. B.C. could have lowered COVID-19 risks by simply banning migrant workers – at a huge cost in lost jobs, bankrupt farmers, and food not harvested.

Instead, B.C. allowed the workers to come and the farms to operate, while minimizing opportunities for the virus. It included setting up a system to quarantine workers when they arrived, in hotels, at government expense. B.C. spent pennies to save dollars. The cost? Just $10-million.

But back to the airports.

One of the pillars for preventing new outbreaks is quick and efficient contact tracing, so that when a COVID-19 case is discovered, its spread can be limited by swiftly locating and isolating everyone who came into contact with the infected person. One of the easiest places to contact trace should be an airplane. The airline has your name, your address and your phone number. It knows where you sat.

Yet, when the federal government gets postflight information on a passenger who turns out to have been infected, it does not contact others on that flight. It simply posts the news in the bowels of its own website, and informs provincial health authorities. And those provincial health authorities? The B.C. Centre for Disease Control suggests that passengers seated near one of those confirmed cases of COVID-19 “should self-isolate and monitor for symptoms for 14 days.” But how would anyone know to do that?

“Effective March 27th,” the BCCDC website says, “B.C. no longer directly contacts passengers from domestic flights who were seated near a confirmed case during the flight. Instead, that information is posted online.” Ditto for international flights. This is, in a word, nuts. It isn’t enough to quietly post infection information on a website – a website no airline passenger knows about – and expect people to find it, and to self-isolate because of it.

Contact tracing after travellers with infections are discovered; testing arrivals from overseas; screening travellers to prevent people with COVID-19 from crossing the border – these are areas where governments have to step up. And the logical government to take the lead is Ottawa.

As B.C. did with agriculture, Ottawa could do for air travel. It’s not about spending billions to bail out an industry. It’s about spending millions on the tools to allow an industry to safely reopen, and stay open.

#140 Chaddywack on 07.18.20 at 10:32 pm

Legalization of marijuana is a good thing?!

Now all the pot smokers feel free to do it anywhere and I have to put up with being exposed to yet another nasty habit from other people….as if cigarettes weren’t already bad enough. Yuck!

Aside from the deficit this is another reason I would never vote for T2. Then again considering Trudeau’s admitted penchant for pot I wonder if there’s a correlation between his financial management and usage.

#141 Black September on 07.18.20 at 10:36 pm

#33 whiplash
Nice one, people have no idea what that regime has done and continues to do, Stockholm syndrome 2.0.

#142 Hawk on 07.18.20 at 10:52 pm

I see a fourth potential outcome, which is I believe is even worse than taxation (but regrettably even more likely).

The government will print more currency, inflate away the debt and thereby impose a massive “inflation tax” indirectly on the people.

#143 Billy Buoy on 07.18.20 at 10:58 pm

Great charts.

Is now the time to invest in Sleep country’s new line of hollow mattresses?

or just hand over 75% of your net worth and join up with Cuba?

#144 Ronaldo on 07.18.20 at 11:07 pm

#134 T RE: Masks

This may be of interest to you. Copy of letter sent to Dr. Hinshaw from the Director of SafeCom Training Services Inc. who are very knowledgable in this area.
http://www.safecom-inc.com/

You could also contact Chris and he would be very pleased to answer any questions you may have.

June 22, 2020
Dr. Deena Hinshaw
Chief Medical Officer of Health
Alberta Health
Edmonton, AB [email protected]
Open Letter to Physicians and the Public of Alberta
Dear Dr. Hinshaw,
Re: Alberta Health recommendation that Albertans wear N95, surgical or non-medical
masks in public to reduce the likelihood of transmitting or developing a condition
from the coronavirus known as COVID-19
I have been teaching and conducting respirator fit testing for over 20 years and now currently for my company SafeCom Training Services Inc. My clients include many government departments, our military, healthcare providers with Alberta Health Services, educational institutions and private industry. I am a published author and a recognized authority on this subject.
Filter respirator masks, especially N95, surgical and non-medical masks, provide negligible COVID-19 protection for the following reasons:
1. Viruses in the fluid envelopes that surround them can be very small, so small in fact that you would need an electron microscope to see them. N95 masks filter 95% of particles with a diameter of 0.3 microns or larger. COVID-19 particles are .08 – .12 microns.
2. Viruses don’t just enter us through our mouth and nose, but can also enter through our eyes and even the pores of our skin. The only effective barrier one can wear to protect against virus exposure would be a fully encapsulated hazmat suit with cuffs by ankles taped to boots and cuffs by wrists taped to gloves, while receiving breathing air from a self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA).
This barrier is standard gear to protect against a biohazard (viruses) and would have to be worn in a possible virus hazard environment 24/7 and you wouldn’t be able to remove any part of it even to have a sip of water, eat or use the washroom while in the virus environment. If you did, you would become exposed and would negate all the prior precautions you had taken.
3. Not only are N95, surgical and non-medical masks useless as protection from COVID-19, but in addition, they also create very real risks and possible serious threats to a wearer’s health for the following reasons:
A. Wearing these masks increases breathing resistance, making it more difficult to both inhale and exhale. According to our Alberta government regulations on respirator (mask) use, anyone that is required to wear a respirator mask should be screened to determine their ability to safely wear one.
Any covering of the mouth and nose increases breathing resistance, whether the mask is certified or not. Those individuals with pre-existing medical conditions of shortness of breath, lung disease, panic attacks, breathing difficulties, chest pain in exertion, cardiovascular disease, fainting spells, claustrophobia, chronic bronchitis, heart problems, asthma, allergies, diabetes, seizures, high blood pressure and pacemakers need to be pre-screened by a medical professional to be approved to be able to safely wear one. Wearing these masks could cause a medical emergency for anyone with any of these conditions.
Pregnancy-related high blood pressure is possible. More research is necessary to determine the impact of wearing a mask for extended periods of time on pregnancy.
It is dangerous to recommend, much less mandate anyone with medical conditions to wear a mask without educating them about the risks involved in wearing them without having been pre-screened and approved by a medical professional first.
B. In order for any respirator mask to offer protection to a specific user, that user must be individually fitted with the right type, right size, if male – face must be clean shaven (only short moustache allowed). Next, the user must be fit tested with that respirator by a trained professional to determine whether or not the respirator is providing the user with an air-tight seal – a requirement for any respirator mask.
C. N95 masks – N for not resistant to oil particles, 95 for the percentage of protection – the lowest level of all respirator masks
These masks even when properly sized and fitted will not protect against virus exposure, however they are capable of adequate protection from larger particles such as pet dander, pollen and sawdust.
Surgical masks (the paper ones that loop around the ears) – do not seal to the face and do not filter anything.
Nonmedical and/or homemade masks are dangerous because:
● Not engineered for the efficient yet protective requirements of easy inhalation and effective purging of exhaled carbon dioxide
● Could cause an oxygen deficiency for the user
● Could cause an accumulation of carbon dioxide for the user
● Shouldn’t be recommended under any circumstance
D. They increase body temperature and physical stress – could cause a high temperature alert on a thermometer gun
E. They impede verbal communication
F. N95, surgical and nonmedical masks can create infections and possible disease all by themselves by causing exhaled warm, moist air to accumulate on the inside material of the mask, right in front of the user’s mouth and nose, which is the perfect environment for bacteria to form, grow and multiply. That is why N95 and other disposable masks were only designed to be short duration, specific task use and then immediately discarded.
So if masks are not effective in preventing illness, what is? How about the age-old tried, tested and proven method of protecting our health with a healthy diet, clean water, avoidance of processed, junk and fast foods, plenty of fresh air, sunshine, moderate exercise, adequate restful sleep and avoidance of stress?
We all have an immune system that can fight and overcome any COVID-19 threat if it is healthy and we nurture it.
Thank you for reading this open letter and letting me share my expertise. I ask that you share this with the public via media statement as we are all committed to promoting good health for all Albertans. If you or any of the public wish to contact me with a question or comment, I would love to hear from you. I can best be reached [email protected].
Sincerely,
Chris Schaefer
Director
SafeCom Training Services Inc.

#145 whiplash on 07.18.20 at 11:21 pm

Any truth to the rumor that CMHC is spending a quarter mil on a study for the Trudeauites to bring in a “home equity tax”.

#146 Ace Goodheart on 07.18.20 at 11:28 pm

Up until now, whenever someone tried to say exactly what you have said in this blog post, they were shouted down with cries of “the virus! the virus!”

Now looking back at what have been the most expensive four months in Canadian history, I wonder if anyone can say that completely destroying our country’s finances, to artificially prop up an economy for four months, was worth it?

There is one thing about T2 that was not mentioned.

T2’s grandfather was an oil man. T2’s family money comes from petrochemicals. Without that cash, T1 would never have been Prime Minister, and T2 would probably never have been born.

The Trudeau’s got their cash from oil.

T2 is now in full rebellion against his grandfather, shutting down Canada’s oil and gas sectors.

His father, somewhat the wiser man, tried to nationalize Canada’s oil and gas industries.

T2 is trying to destroy them. They are to be replaced by “green energy”, electric car companies (that do not exist in Canada) and from what i can tell, a lot of fairy dust and pixies.

Canada (and the Trudeau family) made its money off of natural resources. If we allow T2 to shut down our resource industries, we had better make sure he has something planned to replace them, other than trips on Greta’s borrowed yacht.

Otherwise, there will be no industry left to tax………

#147 MDQ on 07.18.20 at 11:43 pm

#44 Ryan Lewenza

Thanks Ryan for engaging in conversation.

>On gender equality, women make 15% less than men in Canada and represent less than 20% of board members for Canadian companies, so I believe having a cabinet of 50% females is a good thing and sends a positive strong message to the public and corporations.

I believe in equal opportunities, what the government is doing is dangerous as it creates imbalances. We should strive to have the best person for the job, rather than using the gender or color of their skin as a hiring criteria (its actually racist).

Completely unrelated topic, I am sure you have seen all Canadian preferred shares go up this week by ~8%, CPD, ZPR, HPR; all up. What is going on? Lots of volume too.

#148 Ace Goodheart on 07.18.20 at 11:47 pm

Oh and in addition to my previous post, for all of the folks out there who support carbon taxation and “changing climate theory”, here is a thought for you:

Toronto, Ontario’s economic engine, is home to the head offices of most of Canada’s banks, and also home to Canada’s largest law firms.

If you have the time, have a chat with any lawyer who works for one of those firms (the firms are easy to find, they are located for the most part in the buildings owned by the banks that they do financing for).

Why would a bunch of top shelf law firms locate themselves in bank towers?

Why would all these bank towers be concentrated in one place?

What are they all doing all day long (and all night long)?

Financing, of course.

What are they financing?

Well, for the most part, Canada’s natural resource industries. Oil and gas, mining, metals, etc.

Toronto’s economy runs on the financing of Canada’s resource industries. That is what all those lawyers do all day long. That is who the banks are loaning all that money to.

Shut down resources, you shut down Toronto.

Maybe we can all go work in hospitality in Muskoka? (but the COTTAGERS STAY AWAY person will get upset about that……….right Karen?)

#149 Karlhungus on 07.18.20 at 11:48 pm

Gender equality ? What exactly do you mean when you agree with what T2 has done with gender equality.

Also, T2’s fiscal record alone should make you a hater. It should be atop anyones list.

#150 Nope on 07.19.20 at 12:18 am

I strongly disagree that Mr. Harper continued the path of Mr. Martin. Instead, there were modest to nice surpluses which were gutted along with the fiscal capacity of the federal government (GST cuts, other tax cuts, and boutique tax credits). That resulted in failing to pay down debt during good times and extra debt in the bad times that followed.

#151 GaryC on 07.19.20 at 1:21 am

Canada will become Argentina North, a devalued dollar,
international capital will avoid us, our energy industry, once a source of revenue is now hooped.
Increases of the Carbon Tax, re the Paris Climate accord
I guess it’s good for building Windmills, but they sure kill
a lot of Bats.
“Do Bats Lives Matter”

#152 Faron on 07.19.20 at 2:03 am

#6 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.20 at 9:59 am
@#125 Ronaldo
“People are now hoarding cash insted of toilet paper.”
++++

A minor correction if I may…..
If the Liberals continue to spend us into a bottomless pit of debt and our dollar tanks…..

People will hoard cash to USE as toilet paper….

Not Canadian cash. That plastic stuff can only smear. Give me a fist full of well worn greenbacks please and thank you.

#153 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.19.20 at 4:52 am

@#125 Cuke and tomato picker
“the Victoria Times Colonist lists what the homeless get for free – a motel/hotel room-food-boxed meals 2 times a day-cloths-smartphones-cable tv-storage for their extras-laundry- self help people-security-health care-drugs etc- full wrap around
support -transportation – garbage removable –”

+++++

Yep.

And Victoria City Clowncil wonders why it’s overrun with transients and drug addicts…..

Worse every year.

Be interesting to see what happens when the three levels of govt have no more money to give away to their special causes because the taxpayers will crucify them at the polls.

#154 BillyBob on 07.19.20 at 6:46 am

#97 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 5:43 pm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery

“As a result, we recommend caution in extrapolating their findings to contemporary surgical practice. However, overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination. More rigorous contemporary research is needed to make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks.”

What will be spat out next? That 95% of scientists agree climate change is man-made and it’s definitive proof?

===============================================

You seem to be depending quite heavily on no one actually reading the studies you post.

All statements within quotes are verbatim from your linked article.

For starters your own quote is self-defeating:

– “More rigorous contemporary research is needed to make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks.”

Yet, you repeatedly try and do just that: make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks.

“However, each of the studies included could be criticised for risk of bias (Table 2). Indeed, the Webster study, arguably the most rigorous of the three, only investigated the impact of mask on non-scrubbed members of the surgical team. There is uncertainty over whether the findings of some of these studies are applicable to contemporary surgical practice.”

I suppose it should not be surprising given your glaringly obvious bias that you miss the irony of citing an article that itself very clearly states its uncertainty regarding bias.

One study was actually discontinued because of the increased incidences of surgical wound infections in the unmasked test group. Causality unproven but then, why was that study discontinued? Because of the actual outcome. Not theoretical.

Surely you can grasp that actual outcome in the pandemic world is more relevant than highly inconclusive studies dating years back?

“It is clear that more studies are required before any absolute conclusions can be drawn regarding the effectiveness or, indeed, ineffectiveness of surgical masks.”

Exactly.

The study supports what I have said all along:

– neither effectiveness nor ineffectiveness of masks is provable
– similarly, no study has proven that masks cause harm
– outcome of mask-wearing communities does support their potential effectiveness, even as they must be combined with other measures (hand-washing, distancing etc)
– in the absence of conclusive data, prudent risk management always favours the most conservative course of action

Thus it is foolish not to adopt a measure for it’s potential effectiveness, even when unproven, particularly when the intervention has minimal cost.

#155 n1tro on 07.19.20 at 7:39 am

#145 Ronaldo on 07.18.20 at 11:07 pm
#134 T RE: Masks
——
Thanks for sharing. This info does line up with why in the recent study of front line health workers, 4% contracted covid-19 despite wearing n-95 masks. Surgical masks wearer experienced 7% contraction rates while non mask wearers experienced 9%. Given that these folks work in a “hot zone” not experience by the general population, I would expect a higher contraction rate for non mask wearer but maybe it is a case of sample size and actual contact with contagious patients to explain the single digit contraction rate for all 3 groups.

I can see how people could conflate the study as some sort of validation that masks work but upon deeper reflection should realize that the study just took a reading of contraction rates in front line workers who may or may not be around covid-19 patients. Now if the study purposely exposed 100 workers wearing n-95 masks to covid-19 and only found 4% contraction, that would be different.

I think a better study would be to survey people who have contacted covid-19 currently to see if they were already wearing masks and see the delta and calculate if their is a significant difference.

#156 Sky on 07.19.20 at 7:39 am

# 97 n1tro

Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery

“As a result, we recommend caution in extrapolating their findings to contemporary surgical practice. However, overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination. More rigorous contemporary research is needed to make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks.”

*************************

Exactly right. That was a good link, thanks. Here’s one for you specific to SARS-CoV :

“Most of the tested N95 respirators and surgical masks in this study were observed to perform at their worst against particles approximately between 0.04 and 0.2 μm, which includes the sizes of coronavirus and influenza virus. The tested N95 respirators provided about 8–12 times better protection than the surgical masks.

https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/52/3/177/312528

_____________________________________________

Other than posting links, I’m going to join Bytor the Snow Dog and give up the mask discussion. It’s hopeless.

It’s as bad as getting into a debate on religion, which masking is becoming for many (emotionally charged accusations leveled against those who refuse to accept their unsubstantiated claims/minds locked tight against any scientific research disproving their position). I’m detecting cult like undertones.

My only reason for jumping into this mess was to warn others about the judicious use of masks and the political aspects involved.

I know someone (young, healthy, no prior lung issues) who’s contracted pleurisy – lung inflammation – as a result of having to wear a mask all day at work.

And if you’re wearing a mask in a humid environment be especially careful because it can become a breeding ground for mold very quickly (overnight) – dry cough, increase in allergic symptoms, headaches.

It’s pointless discussing N95s or surgical masks because there are so many different types, each with a different function and efficacy. And research is limited.

Beware the academic and medical “experts” in charge of coronavirus guidance. These are NOT research scientists or practicing doctors/virologists.

These bureaucrats have not provided us with any clear answers. Instead they’ve subjected us to a jumble of constantly shifting misinformation, disinformation and contradictions. Hence the confusion and the futile mask arguments.

There is no excuse whatsoever for the destruction of our western economies based on the outrageous predictions of mathematician/computer modeller Neil Ferguson of Imperial College.

Ferguson has a KNOWN track record of highly inaccurate claims. Ask yourself why our govt listened to this man. No excuse whatsoever – other than sheer stupidity or malicious intent. Choose your poison.

Next, ask yourself – ‘Why would I place matters of my own health into the hands of a govt that displayed such poor judgement in following Ferguson’s lead?’ Do your own research people. Caveat emptor.

“In his March 16 paper, Professor Ferguson predicted that COVID-19 would kill 510,000 in the UK and 2.2 million in the US in 2020.”

“The World Health Organization (WHO), which had just months earlier stated that mass quarantines are not effective for infectious diseases, quickly changed its tune, promoting the package of coercive measures China had enacted, including mandatory quarantine, contact tracing by authorities, and ultimately, lockdowns.”

“Why was Professor Ferguson so influential? … With the professor’s ties to the WHO … Imperial was “treated as a sort of gold standard, its mathematical models feeding directly into government policies.”

“…the code that generated Professor Ferguson’s doomsday prediction was neither public nor peer reviewed.”

https://www.iedm.org/the-flawed-covid-19-model-that-locked-down-canada/

#157 Bezengy on 07.19.20 at 8:48 am

Conservatism is dead, at least from what I can tell. Seems almost impossible to change the minds of the younger generation. Years of liberal indoctrination and brainwashing has taken its toll. They believe there are no limits on government spending. Most wont even engage in a civil conversation about its consequences, including Justin. The mere mention that you hold conservative values, and you’re deemed old fashioned and uninformed. Days and years of reckoning are coming indeed. Sad. It didn’t have to be this way.

#158 Idiocy on 07.19.20 at 9:00 am

to comment # 41 Pretentious Pilates

Yes it does affect me, and directly so!
I hold Cdn dollars, investments in Cdn companies and assets and have family living there.
In addition, I may elect to repatriate at some point.

You know nothing about me or my life, yet you make an uninformed and defensive comment.

Try and make a factual constructive comment once in a while.

Your Liberal bias is showing again.

#159 n1tro on 07.19.20 at 9:22 am

#155 BillyBob on 07.19.20 at 6:46 am
#97 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 5:43 pm

You seem to be depending quite heavily on no one actually reading the studies you post.

All statements within quotes are verbatim from your linked article.

For starters your own quote is self-defeating:
————–
You must have me confused with someone else. Where have I made absolute comments like “masks don’t work”? The closest you will get me saying masks don’t work may be from the comments that there is no standardized recommendation of what/how masks should be used and how majority of users are using them wrong anyways making any benefit moot.

My position has always been to ask what the effectiveness is for masks to be mandated by the government despite the flip flopping of the experts. Where then I and others have been attacked with “the science is clear, blah, blah, blah…”

As for “All statements within quotes are verbatim from your linked article.” Should I be making conjecture like “the science is clear around effectiveness of masks given the history of them or child mortality has gone down since masks were used” or some nonsense like that?

So your position is that masks can’t be proven effective or non effective conclusively but since it doesn’t take much to wear them, just do it for the greater good of society?

Ok, I can SUPPORT that position.

But that isn’t the environment we are in are we? The environment we are in is that, “You wear a mask because we told you so or else.”

The “else” part can be “we just want to educate the public”, fines, or jail time.

#160 Idiocy on 07.19.20 at 9:30 am

to comment # 91 Dolce Vita

I agree with this.

Cdns were living a profligate lifestyle, by and large.
Now ,not only no consequences , but they are encouraged to continue – at the future expense of the prudent and themselves.

Best post of yours that I have ever read on this blog.

#161 unbalanced on 07.19.20 at 9:30 am

DELETED

#162 Ryan Lewenza on 07.19.20 at 9:30 am

Nope “I strongly disagree that Mr. Harper continued the path of Mr. Martin. Instead, there were modest to nice surpluses which were gutted along with the fiscal capacity of the federal government (GST cuts, other tax cuts, and boutique tax credits). That resulted in failing to pay down debt during good times and extra debt in the bad times that followed.”

Stephen Harper become PM in Feb 2006. From 2006 to 2008 the Federal government posted surpluses of $13.2 bln, $13.7 bln, and $9.6 bln, respectively, so that’s three consecutive years of surpluses. Over that time Canada’s Federal debt fell from $490 bln to $457 bln. Then in 2009, as the financial crisis was unfolding, we fell back into large deficits as did every other developed nation. That’s because our economy was hit hard so we saw lower tax revenue and due to that pledge I referenced where all G20 countries spent 2% of GDP to help combat the effects of the FC. Canada had deficits from 2009 to 2014, and was essentially balanced by 2015 (just $500 mln in 2015). So under Harper we had balanced budgets until the FC, then big deficits in part due to the FC, and he returned Canada to a balanced budget by the time he left office and T2 took over. I think the data/facts support my position. – Ryan L

#163 n1tro on 07.19.20 at 9:31 am

#157 Sky on 07.19.20 at 7:39 am
# 97 n1tro

Other than posting links, I’m going to join Bytor the Snow Dog and give up the mask discussion. It’s hopeless.
————-
Agreed. No more mask talk as most people’s minds are closed to debate but rather set to attack mode.

My only prediction for masks and covid-19 going forward is that it will be yesterday’s news come after November for obvious reasons.

#164 unbalanced on 07.19.20 at 9:37 am

Mr. Turner. Just stating a fact that occurred in my life.

We don’t care about your prejudices. – Garth

#165 Karen on 07.19.20 at 9:38 am

#148, I was wondering about that as well. Check out prefblog.com.

#166 Dharma Bum on 07.19.20 at 9:41 am

#158 Bezengy

Days and years of reckoning are coming indeed.
——————————————————————–

This naive generation is gonna have to learn the hard way.

I feel sorry for them.

Stupidity leads to pain.

#167 Ryan Lewenza on 07.19.20 at 10:02 am

Karlhungas “Gender equality ? What exactly do you mean when you agree with what T2 has done with gender equality. Also, T2’s fiscal record alone should make you a hater. It should be atop anyones list.”

I was referring to his gender equal cabinet and his clear policies/positions to support gender equality. I previously highlighted the fact that women are still paid less than men overall and in specific roles, and they represent less than 20% of board members across Canadian companies. In my industry it’s very male dominated and I think it’s a positive thing to try to address this by encouraging and promoting women, which I’m finally starting to see. I believe as the leader of our nation, T2 highlighting and promoting this is a good thing. It’s 2020! And on your last point all leaders should be viewed across the full spectrum of their policies, accomplishments and failures. T2’s failures are many and include his terrible treatment of our energy sector, the record spending/deficits, his dealings with China and lack of focus on economic and job growth. But I think he’s done a few positive things, which I’ve highlighted. Similarly, Trump has done some just awful things in my view but also has done some great things. Just like I believe in balanced portfolios I believe in having a balanced view when viewing world leaders and their politics. – Ryan L

#168 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.19.20 at 10:23 am

@#164 n1tro
“My only prediction for masks and covid-19 going forward is that it will be yesterday’s news come after November for obvious reasons.”

++++
Obvious reasons?
Trump and the election?
Pffft.

I expect the flu will be back with a vengeance by Nov (in the US AND Canada) and masks will be mandatory outside the home everywhere in Canuckda.
Fall and Winter flu season and all that.

#169 Do we have all the facts on 07.19.20 at 10:44 am

It is often said that the apple doesn’t fall very far from the tree and this certainly applies to Pierre Elliot Trudeau and his son Justin Trudeau.

When T1 took power in April 1968 the interest bearing debt of the Government of Canada was $43.8 billion and the annual debt serving costs were only $1.48 billion.

In 1974 the Government of Canada initiated the first operating deficit since the end of WW2 and over the next 10 years spent over $70 billion more than they collected in revenues. These operating deficits combined with an increase in interest rates from 9.0% to 19.6% in 1980/81
increased the net debt owed by the Government of Canada to $290.2 billion and the annual cost of serving this debt to $25.4 billion by the time the Progressive Conservatives under the leadership of Brian Mulroney took power in September 1984.

By 1993/94 total interest bearing debt had risen to $524.5 billion and annual debt serving costs had risen to $46.9 billion, representing 36% of GOC revenues.

If over $70 billion in deficits generated by T1 from 1974 to 1984 could be factored out the total interest bearing owed by the GOC in 2020 would be reduced by over $200 billion. This is the power that compounded interest has over 40 years.

Just think the impact that the $350 billion added by T2 in 2020 might have over the next 40 years. Yikes!!

Much bigger apple these days to be sure!

#170 BillyBob on 07.19.20 at 10:44 am

#160 n1tro on 07.19.20 at 9:22 am

As for “All statements within quotes are verbatim from your linked article.” Should I be making conjecture like “the science is clear around effectiveness of masks given the history of them or child mortality has gone down since masks were used” or some nonsense like that?

So your position is that masks can’t be proven effective or non effective conclusively but since it doesn’t take much to wear them, just do it for the greater good of society?

Ok, I can SUPPORT that position.

But that isn’t the environment we are in are we? The environment we are in is that, “You wear a mask because we told you so or else.”

The “else” part can be “we just want to educate the public”, fines, or jail time.

==============================================

I don’t know what your point is in the first para I copied here. I was only emphasizing that the quotes were the article’s, not mine.

It would seem that you and I actually do overlap on the logic, but your objection is to the implementation. Fair enough.

For the record, I place myself towards the libertarian end of the spectrum. Not the Full Unabomber part, but I appreciate people who at least make an effort to think on their own. I hate being told to do. Some people seem to love it. I don’t understand them, but that’s the way it is.

I also know that left to their own devices the vast majority of humanoids I’ve crossed paths seem to possess barely enough critical thought to remember to breathe. When (unproven!) effectivity of non-medical masks depends on mass adoption, I am less than confident the required majority would do it without some sort of incentive. For whatever reason (“I don’t want to!”) the (unproven! theoretically possible!) betterment of their fellow humanoids, and by extension, themselves, isn’t enough of a motivation. (See: United States of Americuh)

Hence we fall between hoping people will “do the right thing”, in order to – hopefully – reap the (as-yet unquantified possible!) benefit of reduced infection transmission, or having some authority or another impose it upon them. My lack of confidence in people puts my freedom-loving self in the uncomfortable position of having to support the latter option. I see little evidence to suggest people can be trusted to be smart, and vast amounts that would prove otherwise.

It’s a dangerous road to go down and I do so very reluctantly, but it’s not like people haven’t the chance to do adopt masks voluntarily. Perhaps feeding the “Muh Freedum” crowd with inconclusive “evidence” of mask ineffectively is only hastening having it imposed upon them?

I do agree that there are just too damn many people eager to help enforce every little new rule of society. Ugh. So I do fully relate to your dislike of the current environment as well.

#171 Idiocy on 07.19.20 at 10:47 am

to comment # 117 John in Montreal

Did it ever occur to you that the children ‘living in poverty’ were mostly in that position because their parents did not plan well to have kids / so many kids in the first place ?

So, via the Child Benefit subsidy, people who can’tplan or provide for their kids are being encouraged to have more kids?
Incentivizing bad practices leads to more of the same, not less.

Further, that subsidy has to be paid by other taxpayers, who are thereby underwriting the cost of raising someone elses children for those who aren’t capable of paying for their own ?

This subsidy just makes Cda less competitive in the long run, thereby limiting the future opportunities for said kids that you are trying to ‘lift out of poverty’ ?

And what of the ‘ability’ of these parents to actually ‘parent’ children for whom they can’t even provide ?

You are simply ensuring that they have a higher chance of being poor throughout their lives.

Maybe rethink it John.

#172 Protea on 07.19.20 at 11:03 am

Ryan such an excellent synopsis and thanks for your intelligentsia. The CERB is a joke..students do not need the free money with no accountability..there are jobs out there and many small businesses now can’t find workers. The government and many western governments have totally mismanaged this. The real disaster is yet to come..what happens next year. Do you really think the deficit will only be 350 billion..it will end up over 400 billion this year and likely another 150-200 billion next year. We will find out in a few years what a deep cost this will end up being. Trudeau will be remembered for this (his legacy) by making sure he wins the upcoming election with his popularity above the current 70% he has assured himself of victory.

#173 Flop... on 07.19.20 at 11:11 am

Morning Rhino.

I did a little bit more digging on the Australian front just to see just how far things are out of whack in Canada.

It appears Australia is due to deliver a budget update this coming Thursday.

A deficit is a given but the numbers bandied about don’t seem as severe as the 343 million number.

Is Australia as good a yardstick as we can find in your opinion.

It is in mine, considering things like population, dollar value, resources and such.

You noted the Canada’s record budget deficit came during the global financial crisis at 56 billion.

Australia’s number at that time was a comparable 54.5 billion.

We spent to other billion and s half on s tunnel to China…

M46BC

“Numbers never lie although they are dependent on the maths of the person doing the interpretation but there is little the Morrison Government can do to massage the bleak picture created by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Instead of announcing the first budget surplus in more than a decade this financial year, the tale of the tape from the Finance Department will instead unveil the biggest ever Federal Government deficit was recorded in 2019-20.

And next year is looking much worse, with some observers tipping next year’s deficit will pass $200 billion, with this year’s number likely to come in at around $85 billion.

Deficit set for a record

By the end of May the deficit had reached $64.9 billion and you can bet that June has only added to the red ink given the trajectory was a budget deteriorating against forecasts by almost $1 billion a day.

In contrast, the previous record Budget deficit was $54.5 billion, set in 2009-10 in the wake of the global financial crisis.”

#174 MF on 07.19.20 at 11:25 am

#134 T on 07.18.20 at 9:06 pm

-Indeed. It really is an extremely delicate balancing act.

Since the US is our close neighbour, any issues is has, whether it’s economic or cultural, inevitably spill over a little into Canada. That’s a given.

The spillover is always a little muted here though, so I expect the mask issue to be no different.

Here in Toronto, you’ll see an amazing amount of compliance. Go to the mall and almost everyone is wearing the mask. You even see knarly looking biker dudes (like Garth) even wearing masks. Obviously, some people cannot wear a mask for health reasons.

So the compliance is there. Therefore I don’t foresee a US style flare up occurring here, luckily. We may get isolated flare ups, but nothing as bad as what’s happening down south.

As for those posters you mentioned. The pandemic has brought out all kinds of radicals on this blog (and all other social media). It’s often just a symptom of spending too much time online and getting consumed by it. Add in any kind of mental illness and the effects are magnified. The online world will offer reinforcement for any point of view someone seeks, no matter how far fetched. Just continue to call out the bullpoop. It’s usually pretty easy.

MF

#175 jess on 07.19.20 at 11:40 am

Dolce ruined? at least i hope alive.
masks will help lower flu /colds and other sickness this fall …the flu last year no one had immunity to. A person can get both at the same time. One would think businesses would like mask wearing as:

Flu is very costly to businesses according to the CDC
Every year influenza, or “flu,” affects employers and businesses. Flu costs the U.S. approximately $10.4 billion* in direct costs for hospitalizations and outpatient visits for adults.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pdf/business/toolkit_seasonal_flu_for_businesses_and_employers.pdf

#176 n1tro on 07.19.20 at 11:51 am

#171 BillyBob on 07.19.20 at 10:44 am
——
Thank you for the conversation around masks and the current environment we are in. Civil discourse is a part of modern society when people are thinking and questioning to come to a better understanding of things.

#177 Damifino on 07.19.20 at 11:57 am

#141 Chaddywack

Legalization of marijuana is a good thing?!
———————————–

Yes, it is.

It’s one of the few things the JT liberals managed to get right. The prosecution of marijuana related ‘offenses’ was an enormous waste of public resources.

I haven’t the slightest use for cannabis (those days are decades behind me) but there are much bigger societal problems to deal with than weed.

Unfortunately, T2 is in the process of amplifying those problems as we speak, reversing the benefit of no longer prosecuting marijuana offenses a thousand fold.

#178 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.19.20 at 12:35 pm

Completely off subject.

I wonder when China will feel powerful enough to invade Taiwan?

https://www.dianomi.com/click.epl?url_id=587484520&ru_variant_id=107

#179 jess on 07.19.20 at 12:45 pm

same up here to watch out for

IRS unveils “Dirty Dozen” list of tax scams for 2020; Americans urged to be vigilant to these threats during the pandemic and its aftermath

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-unveils-dirty-dozen-list-of-tax-scams-for-2020-americans-urged-to-be-vigilant-to-these-threats-during-the-pandemic-and-its-aftermath

#180 Karlhungus on 07.19.20 at 12:52 pm

Ryan,
Seems like you are talking about equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity. If you promote people based purely on gender instead of competence, over the long term you will see detrimental effects. I would also argue that that is more sexist then just males or females dominating a certain industry. There are also sectors dominated by women but no one does anything to balance that out – nor should they. Let the chips fall where they may. T2 trying to make his cabinet 50/50 men vs women will get him a less effective group overall. Because its not based on competence, and as i argued earlier, its actually more sexist then just leaving things alone.

You might want to do more research into the so called “wage gap” between men and women. You dont just throw all the data in a blender, spit out an average and somehow come up with a semi intelligent conclusion. Its a multi variable topic. Pretty rare to find a man and woman with the same work experience, same education, same everything yet the man makes more then the woman.

#181 T on 07.19.20 at 1:07 pm

#139 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 10:10 pm
#132 T on 07.18.20 at 8:53 pm
#97 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 5:43 pm
#82 T on 07.18.20 at 4:15 pm
#141 MF on 07.18.20 at 9:02 am
133 Sky on 07.18.20 at 4:46 am
#63 n1tro on 07.18.20 at 1:45 pm

————
All you have to do is look into the history of mortality rates of mothers and children during childbirth, and what practices drastically reduced deaths from infection of mother’s and children, and you will find real answers.

Quote whatever article you want, this is non-debatable fact.
———-
Let me get this straight because I’m a bit slow. You claim your argument is the right one and imply it is scientifically proven but then when someone brings up a recent study done by scientists that says don’t make that conclusion just yet, you then double down and dismiss the study and quote unnamed mothers and children mortality to conflate some more?

I don’t know how to respond to that. I truly understand now how unhinged some people are. Blinded by a belief, not open to any other possibility other than something that aligns with their preconceived biases.

Imagine if the “experts” didn’t flip flop and maintained that the general public didn’t benefit from wearing masks. Would you be still as strong in your conviction that they are saving lives? Or would you be repeating whatever your Facebook group is saying?

———

You are amongst those who can’t wrap their heads around how wearing masks help prevent the spread of a respiratory virus. Your arguments are all around a mask preventing contraction of infection, while the whole point of masks is to contain bodily fluids expelled from infected respiratory systems into the environment and then infecting others. This is a very basic principle of respiratory infection containment.

Your follow up argument of ‘experts’ flip-flopping is laughable. ‘Experts’ don’t always have the correct answers immediately, but often with more data comes new insights and understandings. There is also a lot of data coming out from many areas of the world showing how public use of masks by all are a critical component to slowing the rate of infection.

I don’t repeat anything, never mind content on Facebook or anything from any social media platform or website. What I believe is based on science and data as it pertains to current situations. By your arguments I can tell you are a parrot of anti-science and conspiracy channels. I wouldn’t be surprised if you believed the earth is flat and the moon landing was faked.

#182 Steven Nicolle on 07.19.20 at 1:13 pm

This blog is stating the obvious. If the mayor of Brampton (pop 500,000) thinks 40 new cases of Covid today is a lot and happy to remain in phase 3 until that number gets lower then JT will have to extend Cerb for a lot of people by the looks of it. Then school will start up again and next big second wave of virus will recur. More Cerb, more lay offs, day cares close. Watch for September- October and the panic when that next wave hits. Tax increases forget about it there will be no one working.

#183 Keith on 07.19.20 at 1:23 pm

Greece and Portugal starting to look like an option.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/19/sun-sea-safety-greece-woos-british-pensioners-with-7-income-tax-rate?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2BrHBVHU8z8MTe8m7qQS1SyJbPzdgk_SaTo5C6MReQc6uBsKtJC4aA9rE#Echobox=1595163876

#184 sean on 07.19.20 at 1:28 pm

Isn’t every country printing outrageous amounts of money right now? Why would we be any different.

#185 Dan on 07.19.20 at 1:47 pm

Nope, any progress Harper and conservatives did by cutting or not increasing the Canada’s national debt would be more than wiped out by Trudeau and Morneau Liberals.

#186 The Totally Unbiased, Highly Intelligent, Rational Observer on 07.19.20 at 2:29 pm

“So of our total $1 trillion in Federal debt that exists today, the Trudeau family has accounted for $548 billion or 55% of our total outstanding Canadian government debt. That’s a lot of red ink that has been amassed under one family.” — Ryan Lewenza

Yes, one should give proper credit where credit is due.

Even though it is hard to believe that someone as wrong and as bad as Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau could ever possibly be right about anything at all, it looks like he actually might have done one little thing sort of right. Early on, Justin Trudeau said something to the effect that Canada’s federal deficit would have to worry about itself because he was not going to waste any of his own time worrying about it. Or something like that. Anyway, close enough.

You might wonder how someone like Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau can sleep at night while he is destroying Canada mentally, morally, and financially. Well, it seems to help that he is not the worrying type. That would normally be a good trait. He will need less dye to keep his hair from turning grey.