The residue

Recently I fessed to having a corner office on the 53rd floor of a swaggering bank tower in downtown Toronto where I can see across Lake Ontario all the way to Nova Scotia.

Well, okay, Scarborough. But it’s a bitchin’ view, anyway.

The point is, I’m not there. Nobody is. Empty floor. Everybody – all my suspender-snapping portfolio manager smartypants colleagues and their assistants – are at home. Working remotely. Zooming, texting, VPNing, phoning and emailing each other and the clients they care for. The corporate overlords shut the place in March. Then the entire giant, 68-story edifice closed. People were told they’d go back at the end of May. Didn’t happen. The mayor begged employers in the downtown core to keep employees away until September. And the betting now is that just a trickle will return, even then.

So, yes, it’s a changed world. When this pandemic is finally over it’s only rational that a corporation which functioned 100% okay for six months with a dispersed workforce will rethink things. After all, people at home buy their own hand sanitizer, pay for their own connections, power their own A/C and arrange their own toilet paper.

The rethink, however, may go beyond how much pricey, leased space an organization needs. How about what people are paid?

Facebook’s Zuckerberg kicked this conversation into overdrive by telling 48,000 associates in May that people working remotely, living in the boonies where things cost less, could expect a pay adjustment. Down. The rationale was simple. First, the pandemic has gutted business models, wiped out profits and made corporations think hard about survival in a changed world. Cutting costs, reducing structural overhead (rent, salaries, benefits) is essential. Second, equity. If people can work from a location where real estate costs 50% less than in Menlo Park, or SF, or 416 or YVR, they should pocket less than colleagues in the city. Only fair. After all, no commuting, cheaper rents or prices and a lower cost of living.

This is but one result of the pandemic we’re all living through. Over the last four months so many new realities have emerged. Empty city cores. Commercial real estate doubts. Millions on government benefits. Remote employment. Mass mortgage deferrals. Hardened provincial and national borders.

The longer the virus hangs around the more certain that structural change will ensue. The latest news from the US is grim – record new cases in several areas, a surprise restriction of inter-state travel to places like New York and New Jersey and a warning from the famous Dr. Fauci that America is suddenly losing the Covid battle – truly bad tidings for the president. Meanwhile global infections are spiraling higher, thanks in part to the rightist dinglenuts who runs Brazil.

So while a lot of Canada is virus-free and the curve here was pummeled down, we’re not immune to the broad implications. Mr. Market signaled that on Wednesday, taking a dive lower after a breathtaking ascent of 42% since the end of March. Pandemics are temporary, and this will pass. But 2020 might mark the end of certain things. Fun air travel. Conventions. Adele and Drake concerts (there are benefits, too). Sixty-storey condos. Commuting. Open offices. Airbnb. Expect higher taxes and lower immigration. Structural unemployment. More government. A raft of business failures in 2021. Tighter credit. And a significant impact on real estate.

This week CMHC was at it again, warning people not to misinterpret the current burst of housing activity resulting from 90 days of pent-up demand being unleashed, particularly in Toronto. We should expect “severe declines” in both sales and construction activity, it said. How could it be otherwise when unemployment sits at double digits and incomes have taken a hit? The agency says it will be two years before things might restore to pre-Covid levels.

“We do not yet have a grasp on the answers to questions, such as the impact of greater work from home, differing impacts across industries, the effect of less mobility across provincial boundaries and the decline and immigration following cutbacks and international aviation,” it adds. CMHC also suggests rents will be fading with fewer immigrants, more difficult mobility within Canada and a ton of new condos coming to market which were started prior to the virus eating society. Lower rents are the last thing hundreds of thousands of amateur landlords need – people already stung by negative cash flow.

Meanwhile, especially in the GTA, it appears to be greater fool time. Sales are increasing, prices are inflating and June could set a new record for valuations. That’s the result of plunged inventory, cheap mortgages and hormonal demand after the markets was Covid-crushed in April and May. If you’re caught up in this, believing the faerie poop Remax is peddling, be careful. Logic tells us this won’t last. Normal is not close by.

On Wednesday StatsCan released a report on what the virus doing to the economy, and the lasting impact. “The degree to which COVID-19 results in permanent layoffs will have a major impact on how the pandemic affects Canadian workers over the longer term,” it concludes. “Looking back over recent decades, at least one in five Canadian workers who was permanently laid-off experienced earnings declines of at least 25% five years after the job loss.” BTW, Westjet laid off 3,300 more people today. And Canada just lost its Triple-A credit rating.

Next week is July. When the virus hit there was snow in the air. We’ll still be talking about the damn bug when the leaves are gone. So, don’t buy anything big. Borrow nothing. Build your financial reserves. And really suck up to your boss.

203 comments ↓

#1 Suburban Bob on 06.24.20 at 3:21 pm

Hey, that’s me!

#2 Doug t on 06.24.20 at 3:23 pm

2nd wave in Canada and our economy will be toast

#3 TurnerNation on 06.24.20 at 3:31 pm

SD is not going away. It is the greatest social and economic weapon ever. And we are in WW3.

ITP.TO as this is a financial blog.

“INTERTAPE POLYMER GROUP RELEASES NEW SOCIAL DISTANCING TAPE LINE
Intertape Polymer Group Inc. has released its new product line of social-distancing tape.
IPG’s new social distancing program features essential products designed for businesses entering the reopening phase while abiding by social distancing guidelines. The indoor marking tape is designed to adhere to hard indoor surfaces and maintain clean removability; while the outdoor marking tape is durable enough to withstand foot traffic and resist other elements.”.

……….
As this is a Boomer blog, the New System Protocols for visiting elderly in homes. Prison visits would be easier.
—-> Read it now and believe it later: All individual rights are to be stripped in the New System. Group rights only – much like a prison. If you do not comply then it’s solitary confinement for your loved on.

It says so in the new rules:

“Do not embrace physically with your family member. ”

***”Please ensure that you are following physical distancing guidelines
and remaining within designated area. Failure to do so may result in your family member being in isolation for 14 days and a Covid19 test completed. Future visits may be discontinued
“***

https://caressantcare.com/uploads/files/Enhance%20Famiy%20Visiting%20Website%20social%20media.doc.pdf

#4 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.24.20 at 3:36 pm

Please correct me if I’m wrong.
But it seems that only one of three Credit Agencies (Fitch) lowered our credit rating.

#5 Dolce Vita on 06.24.20 at 3:36 pm

As sad a day as it was for Canada, at least THE Blog was comforting yet sword stuck in stone at the near term prospects for this great nation.

I especially liked:

“…the rightist dinglenuts who runs Brazil.”

Those poor people. Not even Zorro is that bad (well not medically, but financially he is worse).

Well Canada at least has beat back COVID-19 for the most part, Canadians saw the carnage elsewhere like in Italia, Spain, sucked it up and got serious.

Something to be proud of today Canada. It’s not all bad news.

Light at the end of the tunnel (Colville Horse and Train sized).

#6 conan on 06.24.20 at 3:37 pm

I gained weight during the quarantine. Probably 20 lbs

#7 Thank you! on 06.24.20 at 3:41 pm

Thank you to the inventor of the mouse wheel!!!

Until Garth implements a way to filter certain blog dogs… the mouse wheel is King and a requirement when reading the comments of this pathetic blog.

Cheers! Here is to WW3!

#8 Potato, Poblano and Chorizo Tacos with Jalapeno Lime Crema on 06.24.20 at 3:42 pm

“If people can work from a location where real estate costs 50% less…they should pocket less than colleagues in the city. Only fair. After all, no commuting, cheaper rents or prices and a lower cost of living.”

I disagree. If my time is worth $X for the work I produce pre-plague, my time is worth $X post-plague regardless of my personal circumstances. If business softens and compensation needs rethinking to maintain operational viability, makes sense. However, personal circumstances don’t dictate salaries – supply of skills, demand for skills and productivity does that. Using the previous logic, if I make a bad investment and blow my retirement savings, I should get a salary increase because my personal circumstances dictate I need more to get my retirement back on track.

#9 Thomas on 06.24.20 at 3:45 pm

Bonne Fête nationale du Québec et bonne Saint-Jean-Baptiste à tous!

#10 TurnerNation on 06.24.20 at 3:48 pm

Keep an eye on your food supply folks…it’s a main target. Always the meat plants and farms.
Liquor and weed plants always are fine.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/windsor-mayor-asks-farmers-to-test-workers-and-stop-covid-19-spread

……….

Did you know people are protesting this global collective punishment – and for the retirement homes? Bet you didn’t. This local Vlogger records it:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFnm7oQPDYhXA-JnXmCszdQ/videos

#11 Classical Liberal Millennial on 06.24.20 at 3:49 pm

The end of fun air travel? Seems kind of doom and gloom. Hell, I’d fly south this Winter if borders are opened and Canada doesn’t force a 14 day quarantine afterward.

#12 mike from mtl on 06.24.20 at 3:51 pm

The be fair, the recent ‘record’ cases in states is because those more spread out are still in the first wave which was blown off as a ‘city’ problem. Even in hotspots like Mtl Nyc it’s ripped through the easy pickings already hence, the levelling off.

Yes corps aren’t stupid, trying be smart taking your 175k IT job to a cabin in Chibougamau are going to be seeing an ‘adjustment’.

#13 Lost...but not leased on 06.24.20 at 3:56 pm

QUOTE:
On Wednesday StatsCan released a report on what the virus doing to the economy, and the lasting impact. “The degree to which COVID-19 results in permanent layoffs will have a major impact on how the pandemic affects Canadian workers over the longer term,” it concludes. “Looking back over recent decades, at least one in five Canadian workers who was permanently laid-off experienced earnings declines of at least 25% five years after the job loss.” BTW, Westjet laid off 3,300 more people today. And Canada just lost its Triple-A credit rating.

================

Read an article (sorry don’t have link)that after a certain amount of time of “temporary” layoffs…it is deemed “permanent” and severance is owed. Yeah…like companies can afford that.

ALSO..time to rein in public sector unions…here in BC..I see bus after bus after bus with NO PASSENGERS(I recall they threatened to sue the BC Gov’t)…..BC ferry workers whine about staffing levels of small run ferries.

#14 TurnerNation on 06.24.20 at 3:56 pm

#6 conan you’ve been quarrantining for how many days now and you are not sick. How many more would you like.

I’ll explain it. See what’s going on the US cities. The destruction of the Old System. Yep those #s on the telescreens will be pumped out as a distraction until more of the New System is rolled. They got us in the perfect mind trap.

#15 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.24.20 at 3:56 pm

@#4 Ponzie Preamble
“Please correct me if I’m wrong.
But it seems that only one of three Credit Agencies (Fitch) lowered our credit rating.”

+++

The other ratings agencies were probably waiting for someone else to take the first jump.
Expect the others to fall into step soon.
Lets not forget these same ratings agencies were also giving US banks great reviews months before the 2008-09 sub prime debacle.

#16 Dolce Vita on 06.24.20 at 4:02 pm

I know it’s depressing what’s happening but Garth is correct when he say we will get thru this.

Just look at the List of Epidemics on Wikipedia. COVID-19 just starting to bump against: Great Plague of Seville, 1870–1875 Europe smallpox epidemic and 1896–1906 Congo Basin African trypanosomiasis epidemic in terms of deaths.

Humanity got thru all those epidemics (7.6 Billion souls later) and it is the year 2020 not 1870 for medical advances and knowledge.

And us humans got thru those epidemics economically, some took decades but those were different, less developed times.

And if there is a 2nd wave, probably there will be, we’ll get thru that too.

Andrà tutto bene Canada. Other countries are hurting just as bad, if not worse. 2 wrongs do not make a right I know that, still, Canadians financially will get thru the damn virus relatively unscathed…thanks to Gov largesse.

Have faith.

—————————–

#3 TurnerNation

If what you say is true, we would still all be distancing and wearing masks post Spanish Flu Pandemic, all 3 waves of it and still suffering for it.

Guess what, the Roaring 20’s years later.

My explanation and historical account shorter than your diatribe; hence, Occam’s Razor.

History a good teacher, few pupils.

#17 Dolce Vita on 06.24.20 at 4:04 pm

#4 Ponzius Pilatus

Yes, it was Fitch.

AAA –> AA+

#18 Jay Currie on 06.24.20 at 4:08 pm

Today’s market drop is a hint at a significant reset to come. COVID is not going anywhere soon, the economy (US, EU, Canada) is going to take a while to recover and parts of it (like downtown office towers) simply won’t. But the major stock markets, after the March fall, have come right back as if normal was just around the corner.

This does not mean money should not be invested; what it does mean is that investments need to be very carefully vetted. The days of bunging bucks into ETFs and sitting back are likely over.

What the economic landscape will look like next Spring is pretty impossible to predict but a good bet is that it will have changed a lot in a very few months. Changes which will be difficult for the markets to price properly..

My own intuition is that the markets as a whole will create downwards to reflect the increased economic uncertainty. And they might undertake that rerating very, very suddenly. Now is a dandy time to follow Garth’s advice and eliminate debt.

#19 Leftover on 06.24.20 at 4:09 pm

Local agents admit that the current market is all cheaper houses and CMHC buyers rushing to beat the new rules by July 1st.
Things will slow this summer, get weird this fall when deferrals run out, then who knows. Could be a long cold winter for the Audi set.

#20 Dolce Vita on 06.24.20 at 4:10 pm

Oddly, the COVID “Michelangelo” clearly NOT an Engineer and ate Newton’s Three Laws of Motion book cover, in particular #3.

If you have seen the pedestal that the svelte David is on at Firenze’s Galleria dell’Accademia, you would know that the COVID David would have reduced the pedestal to rubble with that weight gain.

Know nothing Americani…

#21 Can't Beat'em Join'em on 06.24.20 at 4:11 pm

#230 akashic record on 06.24.20 at 12:28 pm
#223 the Jaguar on 06.24.20 at 11:42 am

Seems like a smart move on Ben Mulroney’s part.
He is still employed by CTV, will be their lead on coveted ‘Red Carpet’ events, and best of all doesn’t have to associate with any backstabbing colleagues like Elaine ‘Lainey’ Liu. Expect interest in ETALK to fall off a cliff. Expect friends and supporters of both Mulroney’s to “close ranks” to the brutes.

Buys him some time until November.

If the democrats win, the movement dies off fast, if not, all bets are off.

//////

The people had better be voting left if they want this to go easy, but the wealth re-distribution will still happen.

It will begin with UBI, then BLM will take back the resources from the privileged like the Mulroney family. We didn’t come this far, infiltrate politics, schools, executive levels of companies and even the royal family to give up now. People can shrug us off but lawyers, judges, politicians and company leaders who have opposed or even questioned BLM have been cancelled. The most recent cases were the Alberta judge and Jessica Mulroney. Stripped of their privilege, jobs and means of income and in the coming years stripped of their family wealth.

You won’t need your savings or your pensions or family money – you will receive your UBI like everyone else and everyone will be equal. If you worked hard for your pension or savings then you should be happy that you will be taken care of with UBI. The only people that will be worried are those that gained extra through their privilege.

#22 Zed on 06.24.20 at 4:13 pm

All that talk of a second COVID wave is not right. We never had a first wave, COVID did not come to our shores with the wind like a storm. Governments created the histeria, afraid of overburden hospitals.

Things happen in life and people should see that most of the lives lost to COVID were from weaken individuals.

When 99% of the people who get the virus recover, and not everybody gets infected by the virus, over-reaction is everywhere and costing lives by depression/lost income/family break up.

Enough with that drama!

#23 looking up on 06.24.20 at 4:17 pm

I remember at the end of 2000 when tech stocks started correcting there was an impressive last upward price ascent as the FOMO crowd piled in. Unfortunately this final price flurry was on low volume and we all know what happened to tech stocks after that.

This seems very similar to what the GTA housing market is exhibiting right now.

We’ll see…..

#24 jess on 06.24.20 at 4:19 pm

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 21, 2020
Alcohol Permits for 12 Bars Suspended After Three Nights of Operation Safe Open
Agency’s efforts focus on public safety during pandemic

AUSTIN — On the third night of Operation Safe Open, the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission found evidence to suspend the permits of seven more bars. In total, the permits of 12 bars have been suspended during these undercover investigations. Operation Safe Open is an effort by TABC agents to inspect businesses across Texas to ensure they’re following protocols to slow the spread of COVID-19. These requirements include indoor customer capacity limits of 50% for bars and 75% for restaurants, along with social distancing of at least 6 feet between groups of customers.

“Protecting the health and safety of Texans during this pandemic is our top priority,” TABC Executive Director Bentley Nettles said. “We warned businesses TABC will have no tolerance for breaking the rules, and now, some bars are paying the price. I hope other establishments will learn from these suspensions.”

The businesses issued an emergency order for a 30-day permit suspension are:

https://tabc.texas.gov/home/press_releases/2020/20200621.asp

#25 Moh on 06.24.20 at 4:26 pm

Looks like people will have to change their careers to something in Information Technology. I am seeing tons of jobs in IT every day in Toronto.

#26 Chris in Edm on 06.24.20 at 4:28 pm

A word of advice to those terrified of leaving their houses…. Stop watching the evening news. Seriously.

I was glued to the news when this all kicked off, partly to try and figure out what to do with my investments, but after a while after i sorted all that out, I turned off the TV and man do I feel great! Instead of fear, I look at the numbers. Edmonton was down to 1-3 new cases a day… For 1 million people. Now we’re back up to like 20, but still. Big deal. I actually just got tested because I ate lunch at a restaurant where a server got covid and my results came back negative. The swab up the nose scared me more than covid (it wasn’t that bad. Sort of feels like water rushing up your nose if you dive in the ocean).

If you’re healthy and young – social distance, limit your exposure a little, and you’ll be ok.

#27 Do we have all the facts on 06.24.20 at 4:34 pm

Leonard sure saw this coming

Every body knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows the Captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

So much unnecessary change happened so quickly that nobody had time to figure out the possible consequences.
I am pretty sure that if world leaders could go back in time they would not be so eager to initiate a total lockdown.

Our confidence over a quick return to normal has been shaken, stirred and put away wet. What sane person can look at the carnage caused by the overreaction to Covid 19 and not be concerned.

Why are contributors to this blog still chirping about the increasing number of infections as if there was some factual link between the number of infections and the possibility of death from Covid 19. Testing for Covid 19 has increased and as a result the number of people testing positive has increased. Get over it!

Mainstream media has created a boogeyman and our irrational fear of this boogeyman is destroying our basic freedoms and quality of life.

We must shake free of this fear before it is too late.

#28 DM in C on 06.24.20 at 4:36 pm

I’m 100% remote now. As is my company.

My skills don’t change because of where I live. I am paid for my experience and my skills. Doesn’t matter if I’m delivering from a suburb in Calgary, a beach in Playa del Carmen or a fishing shack on the eastern shore of NS.

Our CEO is in CA, our CRO is in WA. You can bet they’re not getting paid less. I’d like to see them try that.

#29 jal on 06.24.20 at 4:38 pm

Just because the insurance industry manage to put a clause in the strata than strata must buy insurance, in other word, legal stealing, does not mean that if the owners cannot pay that the clause cannot be rescinded.
(Big,big fight by the little guy)

Another big fight, getting municipalities to lower taxes.

#30 Snjezana Tesar on 06.24.20 at 4:43 pm

Realtors are saying that sales are fabulous in June – yes, perhaps compared to March, April, May or June, but still bad. I read an article yesterday where Toronto agent is saying how demand from Chinese customers already fell dramatically in the first quarter 2020 and it’s dismal right now.

Swiss watch makers say sales are down 80%. If sales are down 70% in July, this is still bad, just a little less. but realtors are trying to spin the data to give appearance of healthy rebounding markets. They are desperate!

#31 paulo on 06.24.20 at 4:48 pm

#8 Good luck on that! wages are regional and dictated by a number of factors your skill set will command more in Toronto than say Orillia and guess what if the candidate in Orillia can offer the same services cheaper as would likely be the case as he or she is not living in a gas bag over priced real-estate market like you you are toast
a fate many are about to find all about much to there dismay
many changes coming are you sure you should be paying ridiculously high prices for real estate or rental in Toronto…… umm looking very risky in my mind

#32 DLT INC on 06.24.20 at 4:50 pm

RECOVERING FROM COVID 19 – A CORRECT RESPONSE

So Our PM Justin Trudeau and his Finance Minister are apparently meeting with the heads of our major banks and the heads of other significant economic institutions to develop a plan. It is becoming clear to me that the elites of society see our elected politicians as their servants while the rest of us recognize them to be our rulers. In collaboration with the movers and shakers, our government leaders will, presumably, arrive at a course of action and hand down directions to the rest of us.
With regard to the current crisis, this is how I see things. There has been a very severe event along the road of life in which many of us have crashed and burned. Many of us have been left battered and bruised on the side of the road.
A few others, however, have benefited significantly as a result of the crisis. Sadly, as many of us victims lay languishing in the muck, some of these lucky entities stoop, not to help, but rather to pick our pockets. Their ill gotten booty, they add to their mountains of wealth and far be it that our elected politicians would dare to suggest that this booty should ever be taken from the movers and shakers to help repay the money paid out to those unfortunate enough be caught by the pandemic. And so, the answer to the question “ who is going to pay for the bailouts?” our elected politicians, I fear will say “ why you guys, you know, the ones who are suffering, must eventually pay.” Dictating that the super rich must contribute their gratuitous gains from the pandemic, I expect, will be an order which they will never give because our wonderful political leaders know which side their bread is buttered on . And so, the movers and shakers will get to keep their booty and can add it to their fortunes salted away in low tax havens, which, again, our wonderful elected representatives have seen fit to do practically nothing to eliminate. Lobbying efforts, coupled with extensive political donations, of various sorts, certainly does the trick for those financially able to employ them.
While it is true that the super wealthy may provide jobs to millions of the citizenry, it is, also, just as true that these same people, similarly, enjoy the power to fire. So, in this great democracy, the power to hire and the power to fire rests, to a significant degree, with a select few who reserve the right to offshore or eliminate jobs as they continue to pursue their singled minded goal of maximizing profits.
As far as reducing wages for those now working at home, if there were real competition and far fewer monstrous conglomerates, maybe the workers would have the power to demand a fee for renting out their private residences. If working from home catches on, I think it is only a matter of time before local governments start taxing such commercial use to compensate for the loss of revenue as corporations down size their real estate holdings. It’s really unfortunate that apologists of monopoly capitalism celebrate a system that doesn’t begin to resemble what a real capitalistic system would look like. They should stretch their minds and accept that capitalism can take various forms, not all of which require that the world has to put up with the existence of monstrous private fortunes.

#33 Sail away on 06.24.20 at 4:52 pm

#6 conan on 06.24.20 at 3:37 pm

I gained weight during the quarantine. Probably 20 lbs

————-

Hey, in uncertain times like these, it’s good to build reserves!

#34 Asterix1 on 06.24.20 at 4:53 pm

Sales are not increasing in the GTA!

The only stat that matters: Sales are down 53.7% from May 2019.

Also prices are not increasing in GTA. It’s all about the sales mix at a given time, when you compare apples to apples, prices are going down.

#35 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 06.24.20 at 4:53 pm

“Next week is July. When the virus hit there was snow in the air. We’ll still be talking about the damn bug when the leaves are gone. So, don’t buy anything big.”

Exactly right. Don’t buy a boat, a cottage or a Sea-doo or a trip up north.

Just.

Stay.

Home.

There will be NO cottage season this year. Deal with it.
Stay safe yourself and don’t endanger our smaller health resources.

And to all you selfish dinglenuts southern hillbillies wanting to leave Brampton and come to Sauble Beach or Bracebridge or Prince Edward County,

STAY THE HELL AWAY YOU IDIOTS!

Because we’re already closing down to keep you out anyway.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/sauble-beach-to-close-mayor-partially-blames-thousands-of-toronto-area-beachgoers-1.4995797

And don’t be surprised at new tactics coming in the days ahead. I don’t necessarily agree with them all, but locals here will be taking things much more into their own hands.

#36 meslippery on 06.24.20 at 4:56 pm

The boonies are less costly insofar as real estate goes nothing else.
Put house in spouse name get Toronto address.

#37 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 06.24.20 at 4:56 pm

“Next week is July. When the virus hit there was snow in the air. We’ll still be talking about the damn bug when the leaves are gone. So, don’t buy anything big.”

Exactly right. Don’t buy a boat, a cottage or a Sea-doo or a trip up north.

Just.

Stay.

Home.

There will be NO cottage season this year. Deal with it.
Stay safe yourself and don’t endanger our smaller health resources.

And to all you selfish dinglenuts southern hillbillies wanting to leave Brampton and come to Sauble Beach or Bracebridge or Prince Edward County,

STAY THE HELL AWAY YOU IDIOTS!

Because we’re already closing down to keep you out anyway.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/sauble-beach-to-close-mayor-partially-blames-thousands-of-toronto-area-beachgoers-1.4995797

And don’t be surprised at new tactics coming in the days ahead. I don’t necessarily agree with them all, but locals here will be taking things much more into their own hands. It won’t be comfortable.

#38 RyYYZ on 06.24.20 at 4:59 pm

“So, don’t buy anything big. Borrow nothing. Build your financial reserves.”
============================

On an individual basis this is probably good advice (maybe I shouldn’t have bought that new dirt bike last week? lol), but if most people start thinking like that, we will surely head into an even deep recession. The “Paradox of thrift” as someone else mentioned.

On second thought, maybe it’s good I bought that bike. It may be one of the last things I get to enjoy before everything goes to crap.

#39 Inequity on 06.24.20 at 5:00 pm

#11 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY!

I feel heart felt sorrow for the cottage country hillbilly that takes matters into their own hands with me or my family.

#40 Rico on 06.24.20 at 5:00 pm

#8 Think of it as a company gives employees in high cost of living areas a salary increase. ALL high tech companies do this. If you move somewhere lower cost you will get a salary reduction.
It’s even worse for Canadian offices for US companies, where they pay us the equivalent of US salaries when our dollar was above par. They get away with it because there is little competition up here.

#41 D.D. Corkum on 06.24.20 at 5:03 pm

#4 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.24.20 at 3:36 pm

Please correct me if I’m wrong.
But it seems that only Fitch lowered our credit rating.

—-

You are correct; and that is how it works. The credit rating agencies work independently, so it would be unusual for them all to change their ratings simultaneously.

Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/rating

#42 SeeB on 06.24.20 at 5:11 pm

“Second, equity. If people can work from a location where real estate costs 50% less than in Menlo Park, or SF, or 416 or YVR, they should pocket less than colleagues in the city. Only fair. After all, no commuting, cheaper rents or prices and a lower cost of living.”

—————————————————————-

Maybe. But they may also need to compete for talent against other large tech firms making similar shifts. How fast would a FaceBook remote worker who recently had their pay cut jump ship for even a slightly better offer from a competitor? FB would need to adopt some illegal non-compete agreements with other companies and hope they doesn’t get busted, which they usually do.

#43 El Presidente on 06.24.20 at 5:12 pm

COVID Donnie….

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/c6c/1a7/350f69ceecb2cb2c4003abe3a3230d441c-18-naked-trump.rsquare.w700.jpg

#44 Tim123 on 06.24.20 at 5:12 pm

The people who are buying houses right now are definitely going to be losing money on their purchase in comparison to housing prices in 2021.
I have no idea what these people are thinking.

I went through an analysis of industries and jobs that would be impacted when coronavirus first hit in February as I wanted to know what to short in the equity markets (bet that they will go down). Here are some of them: oil and gas, auto industry, aerospace, airlines, banks, insurance, tourism, retail stores, restaurants, hotels, bars,conventions, meetings, casinos, concerts, sports, construction, cruises, real estate, gyms, trains, buses, public transit, chiropractors, physiotherapists, massage therapists, auto mechanics, electricians, technology, travel, commercial and residential REITs, luxury goods, personal trainers, administration, taxis, ski resorts, golf resorts, spa, water parks, amusement parks.

The list is long and some will be impacted more than others. If you think about what portion of the public that will lose their jobs or have reduced hours, it will probably mean that there will be a high unemployment rate and in those circumstances there is no way residential real estate will go up.

#45 Data Science and Statistics on 06.24.20 at 5:14 pm

Garth,

Canada’s triple AAA rating is gone already. So if the corporations are happy with everyone working WFH…I don’t know about the MORALLY AND FISCALLY BANKRUPT CANADIAN govt.

You can deduct the part of your costs that relates to your work space, such as the cost of electricity, heating, maintenance, property taxes, and home insurance. However, you cannot deduct mortgage interest or capital cost allowance.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/forms/t2200.html

You forgot to mention that pesky T2200 refund that the people are owed, it’s the LAW and if JTurdeau will try to adjust this legislation to diminish/negate the refund, HE will LOSE BIG as half the country will sue the GOVT and there will be a tax revolt..

The Canadian govt will be bankrupt in a flash next year and the year after that. An extra 20-25 billions only from T2200 refunds. It works if 5% of your workforce WFH not when 70% does it…LOL

CHEERS

#46 Inequity on 06.24.20 at 5:21 pm

#40 Rico

US companies aren’t too bright when it comes to that. Years back, I worked in central SK. The CO announced that they were making wages the same across the organization…. a few years later they were only getting high school students applying for their IT jobs… anyone with any qualifications moved away to get competitive salary with the added bonus of not living in rural SK.

#47 Dr Talc on 06.24.20 at 5:21 pm

Bill Morneau clears things up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=oBIbJaQO8Xg&feature=emb_logo

#48 Dominoes Lining Up on 06.24.20 at 5:27 pm

There’s one big wild card I think, sort of an elephant in the room about working from home that is not being addressed.

What about the huge potential security and privacy breaches that may be possible (and may already have started to happen) with people using office computers and/or having access to office files in their homes?

Nobody seems to be talking about this risk.

For lots of employers, including finance businesses, governments, manufacturers etc…it would seem to me that the value of control of information in an office space may outweigh other factors. People at home can copy or photograph information and do anything they want with it. They can also be hacked much more easily across multiple platforms than office computers won’t even allow access to.

Anyone else thinking this?

#49 Marco on 06.24.20 at 5:27 pm

DELETED

#50 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.24.20 at 5:28 pm

#11 Classical Liberal Millennial on 06.24.20 at 3:49 pm
The end of fun air travel? Seems kind of doom and gloom. Hell, I’d fly south this Winter if borders are opened and Canada doesn’t force a 14 day quarantine afterward.
————
Fun of air travel?
That’s been all gone thanks to 9/11.
I hope the airlines bring back free booze and wider seats after Covid.

#51 Chris on 06.24.20 at 5:31 pm

#37. Two words: Shut up

#52 Data Science and Statistics on 06.24.20 at 5:32 pm

For Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! Welcome back dude, we need the court jester.

It seems that Covid19 affect the already limited intellect of some people that should have been placed in straight jackets a along time ago…lol

Dude, I am going to cottage country to give a runny nose to some country bumpkins…lol

#53 Ed on 06.24.20 at 5:33 pm

Just.
#11 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY!
Stay.

Home.

There will be NO cottage season this year. Deal with it.
Stay safe yourself and don’t endanger our smaller health resources.

I’m enjoying the cabin in Fairmont BC…if it wasn’t for Albertans this would still be swamp. btw my taxes are paying for the health care around here. Get back to your car body collection in your front yard.

#54 Flop... on 06.24.20 at 5:36 pm

#48 Dominoes Lining Up on 06.24.20 at 5:27 pm

//////////////////

That’s one issue Dom, my wife works for the school board, and apparently W.C.B was having trouble trying to come up with a new framework regarding people working from home, and said long-term it wasn’t sustainable or something to that effect…

M46BC

#55 Inequity on 06.24.20 at 5:40 pm

#48 Dominoes Lining Up

We were thinking this back in March…

Encrypted drives, disabled USB drives, RMS, no printing from home…

#56 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.24.20 at 5:41 pm

Face books Sugarmountain tells his staff, times are tough and they have to tighten their belts.
All, while he still makes 6 mill a day.
I know I’m naive, thinking that he should set an example.

He is an example – of entrepreneurship, innovation and capitalist success. He can pay himself whatever the hell he wants. – Garth

#57 april on 06.24.20 at 5:42 pm

Listen to Garth. Also have a listen to Ross Kay, Howestreet.com
Don’t catch a “falling knife”.

#58 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.24.20 at 5:45 pm

For those who are putting on weight during the last 3 months:
Better trim down and prepare for part II.
Obesity can land you in ICU.
Remember Boris Johnson.

#59 Linda on 06.24.20 at 5:48 pm

The pay adjustment threat isn’t anything new. Companies have been outsourcing for decades because it saved money. However, there will always be those whose skill sets are such that the demand outstrips the available supply. They are the ones whose salary would fall under the ‘market price’ listing on the menu. Won’t matter if they live where the cost of living is under a dollar a day. They will still command a premium price for hours worked.

#60 Balmuto on 06.24.20 at 5:51 pm

“ #12 mike from mtl on 06.24.20 at 3:51 pm

Yes corps aren’t stupid, trying be smart taking your 175k IT job to a cabin in Chibougamau are going to be seeing an ‘adjustment“.

I think corps are going to have a hard time making good on this threat, initially anyways. Where you work from makes no difference to the value you contribute to the company, which is what you’re compensated for. So it would be treated as a form of punishment and employees would jump ship to employers willing to match their current salary regardless of where they reside.

However, what will happen longer term is that new recruits will ask for less money than they otherwise would as they can now work from lower-cost locations. So there will be a drag on wages overall due to this kind of arbitrage.

The implications of all this for real estate prices in high-cost centres can’t be good.

#61 Attrition on 06.24.20 at 5:53 pm


#38 RyYYZ on 06.24.20 at 4:59 pm

“So, don’t buy anything big. Borrow nothing. Build your financial reserves.”
============================

On an individual basis this is probably good advice (maybe I shouldn’t have bought that new dirt bike last week? lol), but if most people start thinking like that, we will surely head into an even deep recession. The “Paradox of thrift” as someone else mentioned.

On second thought, maybe it’s good I bought that bike. It may be one of the last things I get to enjoy before everything goes to crap.

It’s never ever a bad time to buy a dirt bike, new or used.

#62 Flop... on 06.24.20 at 5:54 pm

#48 Dominoes Lining Up on 06.24.20 at 5:27 pm

////////////////

Also probably should have mentioned that when she was forced to start teaching from home the school board issued her an iPad and stated all work related stuff was to be done on that

She has been back in the classroom only 18 days, so it is a small sample size, but first impressions are that the kids like it.

She stated the kids get less flustered with fewer distractions.

At the moment essential workers kids can do five days, with the other kids doing two or three, I think, to keep the numbers down.

Because of this she had noted the side effect of kids being without their best buds and kids she has never seen interact are suddenly getting on like wildfire.

Also each school is different operationally due to parents wishes.

Her school, a large percentage of the kids were sent back, the next school over hardly anyone registered, the only difference on paper was that they have a larger population of Canadian-Chinese students.

I did watch the Michael Moore documentary a while back on the school board iPad, because it has a bigger screen than mine.

Isn’t possession nine-tenths of the law?

I need to consult my Washed Up Lawyer…

#63 Lambchop on 06.24.20 at 6:07 pm

#47 Dr Talc on 06.24.20 at 5:21 pm
Bill Morneau clears things up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=oBIbJaQO8Xg&feature=emb_logo

___________

What an absolutely infuriating little human Morneau is!!!!!
There seems to be an implied threat from the senator of some sort of no-confidence. Can the senate do that?

#64 Cpdlc on 06.24.20 at 6:08 pm

” BTW, Westjet laid off 3,300 more people today.

Correction. WestJet didn’t lay off 3000+ employees today they permanently terminated them.

#65 Josh Milliken on 06.24.20 at 6:11 pm

What about the $1.2 million company moving out of Seattle to Arizona as the mayor lost a big deal because of the communist wackos at CHAZ, CHOP.

This is what happens when you let them play too long and back your disobeying children roam free to cause havoc, chaos and destruction. It is more like Seyalater not Seattle. This was the final nail in the coffin from high taxes, too much over reaching regulation and just a city council that has going nuts.

More companies will follow this model of leaving Seattle in droves. They should of learned from Portland to stop it quick.

#66 The real Kip (Ret) on 06.24.20 at 6:12 pm

Wow, are you setting Ryan and Doug up for a pay cut? Not sure they’ll like that.

#67 Josh Milliken on 06.24.20 at 6:16 pm

It is a $1.2 billion company not $1.2 million company left Seattle to Arizona, my mistake if this post goes through.

#68 KNOW IT ALL on 06.24.20 at 6:16 pm

“Pandemics are temporary, and this will pass”

YES BUT WHEN???? This thing could linger for years, even mutate and get worse.

Think you all better rethink your investment strategies.

The entire world has become unpredictable, so how can you evaluate what you cant put a price tag on?

#69 Ramshackle on 06.24.20 at 6:16 pm

My birthday is this weekend and all of my friends are coming up north to the family cottage with me and my wife to celebrate! Situation NORMAL!

Happy birthday to me!

It’s gonna be one hell of a party. Probably 40 people near as I can tell, plus whoever else wants to tag along.

Any excuse to have fun, right?

Garth…you wanna come too?

#70 willworkforpickles on 06.24.20 at 6:18 pm

The cuts to services in the larger cities in the US are expected to top a $trillion dollars in 2021 when severe economic fallout and the starkly real crises begins to unfold.
Millions after millions unable to pay property taxes or any taxes will lead to broad cutbacks turning into less services even no services in some of the already worse off locales.
Less/No garbage removal. Less/No fire dept. personnel. Less/No emergency response personnel. Less/to almost no health care personnel in various locales. Less/to virtually no police personnel in various locales.Less/No snow removal services in northern locales …and so on and on down the line.
We’ll see…the millions of poor cut off from depleted Gov. support for the most part struggling to survive…More crime and more crime escalating daily almost everywhere. Food riots and more food riots , looting burning, rampant out of control chaos and all out anarchy in various locales gradually spreading nation-wide.
Could Canada be affected?
In early 2017 many were asking on this blog when will a good time to buy real estate come again with low prices.
I responded at that time by saying – likely by the year 2023 or just before when we reach the perceived bottom of the then current business cycle.
Real estate prices should be run down by then as a catalyst to the emergence of it’s downfall will eventually come into play beforehand.
I also posted…MAGA notwithstanding, purchasing real estate (as low as it might go) may very well be the last thing on anyone’s mind over the struggle just to survive by then.

#71 Robert B on 06.24.20 at 6:20 pm

Garth Westjet announce job losses of 3333….now that’s a nice Occultist number.

They could have picked any other number ..

#72 Axehead on 06.24.20 at 6:23 pm

Garth. Hey, me too. Condo downtown Calgary. Bitchin view of … well … pickers in garbage bin in back alley off 17th Ave. Anyways, paying rent for non-use until lease runs out. Too much ethics to skip out. At least I can expense it.

#73 Emo on 06.24.20 at 6:25 pm

There is no way that I’m buying GTA real estate, ever…
https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/06/interracial-marriage-kitchener-waterloo/
……………………………………………….
Is this what suburban Toronto people think of our fellow human beings?

#74 jal on 06.24.20 at 6:27 pm

#65
Working from home to save money
Why not from a Mexican beach
Why should head office stay down town and pay big taxes and expenses
Why not from a suburb
People smarter than me are in charge of figuring out the smartest thing to do and making decisions

#75 Ramshackle on 06.24.20 at 6:28 pm

#48 Dominoes Lining Up on 06.24.20 at 5:27 pm

You hit the nail on the head for sure. There are some basic steps to be taken but in the end, security becomes a problem with home workers that handle data.

First off, if you allow employees to work online from home (or the cottage!) a well drafted NDA is a must! Protecting your (company) assets is critical.

Secondly, COMPARTMENTALIZE strategically as much as possible with protective measures (secure SSL log in) to reduce risk. That means that if you are working online from home you get just what data you need to do your job, without access to anything else.

Third, set up a private VPN. Use multiple data servers with data on each one in a task separate and task isolated fashion.

Fourth, log every transaction and review the logs with a view towards spotting irregularities that could lead to security breaches.

There’s lots more that can be done, but just those few steps helps.

#76 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.24.20 at 6:29 pm

#65 Josh Milliken on 06.24.20 at 6:11 pm
What about the $1.2 million company moving out of Seattle to Arizona as the mayor lost a big deal because of the communist wackos at CHAZ, CHOP.

This is what happens when you let them play too long and back your disobeying children roam free to cause havoc, chaos and destruction. It is more like Seyalater not Seattle. This was the final nail in the coffin from high taxes, too much over reaching regulation and just a city council that has going nuts.

More companies will follow this model of leaving Seattle in droves. They should of learned from Portland to stop it quick.
————–
$1.2 million dollar company is moving. Big deal.
So long as Microsoft and Boing stick around
No problema.
You’re forgetting that Seattle will be getting an NHL franchise soon.
Huge money maker.
BCers will go down in droves to watch the games.

#77 kingston boy on 06.24.20 at 6:29 pm

@#35 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 06.24.20 at 4:53 pm
“Next week is July. When the virus hit there was snow in the air. We’ll still be talking about the damn bug when the leaves are gone. So, don’t buy anything big.”

Exactly right. Don’t buy a boat, a cottage or a Sea-doo or a trip up north.

Just.

Stay.

Home.

There will be NO cottage season this year. Deal with it.
Stay safe yourself and don’t endanger our smaller health resources.

And to all you selfish dinglenuts southern hillbillies wanting to leave Brampton and come to Sauble Beach or Bracebridge or Prince Edward County,

STAY THE HELL AWAY YOU IDIOTS!

Because we’re already closing down to keep you out anyway.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/sauble-beach-to-close-mayor-partially-blames-thousands-of-toronto-area-beachgoers-1.4995797

And don’t be surprised at new tactics coming in the days ahead. I don’t necessarily agree with them all, but locals here will be taking things much more into their own hands.
—————————

why would torontonians head to sauble -3.5hrs away when wasaga is 1hr 15min?
more likely these people are from London area.

#78 Reality is stark on 06.24.20 at 6:30 pm

I’m afraid that debt downgrades don’t have any significance regarding SJW dogma.
The patriarchy and the “rich” still need to subsidize the wants of SJW’s whose needs supersede all others.
The old mindset of “creating value” has been replaced with “I am valuable and you owe me”.
Subsequent downgrades will only cause resentment amongst the Canadian entitled. They structure their lives around social programs and look for ways to “defraud the system”. Why do you think we pay exorbitant insurance rates?
Canadians are lazy and obese. You would be shocked at how they expect doctors to give them pills to cure self inflicted damage caused by excessive eating. They take no responsibility for their behaviour but they are convinced that the doctor is at fault for their own negligence.
Future downgrades are inevitable. Commerce is frowned upon in this nation. Progress is a dirty word. People protest everything trying desperately to stop all advancements for fear that the environment may be negatively impacted. They also get a rush from protesting for the sake of protesting.
We are going backwards, so expect many more downgrades and the joy that comes from the bond vigilantes who will eventually run the nation.

#79 dosouth on 06.24.20 at 6:35 pm

Perfect description of our immediate future…

Welcome to the whack-a-mole stage of coronavirus

#80 yorkville renter on 06.24.20 at 6:36 pm

permanent WFH will kill corporate culture and result in unsatisfied employees, more layoffs in Canada and bad hiring decisions… If I can hire someone in Windsor Ontario for my company in Toronto what’s stopping me from hiring someone from the Philippines or India?

also, I think a mandated cut in pay could be grounds for Constructive Dismissal, no?

#81 Axehead on 06.24.20 at 6:38 pm

#60. I work in IT. Calgary. I have seen IT jobs slashed and burned, never to return. I think #12 has a good point. Corporate rethink on 175k IT jobs when you can get a dude in India who has a doctorate in Data Mining, speaks better English than you, is even more ‘nice’ than Canadians, by George, and commands 10k/year!

Wait for it.

#82 Fulcrum and Lever on 06.24.20 at 6:42 pm

As the dust settles – return to normal means early 90’s home prices across Canada. You Watch! Yes your pile of lumber is worthless without jobs to feed a mortgage

#83 ole Doberman on 06.24.20 at 6:45 pm

Pot companies are doing good sales. Plus legalization stateside will boost the sector bigly!
Its the only place to invest

#84 Frugal Xennial on 06.24.20 at 6:45 pm

How is it “fair” to pay someone less for the same work and skills because of where they chose to live? That’s like saying someone in an apartment rather than a house should also be paid less and maybe if they use public transit instead of owning a car, they should also take a pay cut?! Pay is for work and time… personal lifestyle choices are not part of that equation.

#85 conan on 06.24.20 at 6:51 pm

The implications of all this for real estate prices in high-cost centres can’t be good. – Balmuto

All of these downtown coffee shops etc took a serious hit on their value. It is very much like Uber’s effect on the taxi industry licensing structure. This hits landlords and it hits cities right in the wallet.

#86 IMALWAYSRIGHT on 06.24.20 at 6:55 pm

Regarding Covid-19 deaths in Brazil, they have 251 per million people. Canada has 230 deaths per million. Read beyond the headlines.
Doug Ford admitted today that visitors to long term care are only asked if they tested positive for Covid, they do not need proof. Meanwhile he has been working on privatizing Home Health Care for months. Bill 175

#87 Yukon Elvis on 06.24.20 at 6:57 pm

#11 Classical Liberal Millennial on 06.24.20 at 3:49 pm
The end of fun air travel? Seems kind of doom and gloom. Hell, I’d fly south this Winter if borders are opened and Canada doesn’t force a 14 day quarantine afterward.
……………………………………

You don’t wanna get sick in a foreign country CLM. It can get very expensive and the quality of care can be very poor depending on where you are.

#88 Nonplused on 06.24.20 at 7:04 pm

I think Zuckerberg needs a lesson in economics 101, so here it is:

Prices are set by supply and demand, and that includes labor unless the government interferes, which always either reduces supply or reduces demand artificially. Therefore, the wages a stay at home worker (or an in office worker for that matter) can command are dependent on the scarcity of that worker’s particular skill set, not his personal expenses.

My wife has been working from home for 3 years now and it has worked out great. Her job is national in scope, she can be dealing with people anywhere from Montreal to Vancouver, so there was very little reason for her employer to waste office space on her. Over that time period her salary has gone up, not down. The cost advantages to her employer are obvious, all they provide her with is a laptop, a cell phone, and IT support. No office, no desk, no TP, no coffee, nothing else. We purchased an up-down desk and a couple extra monitors for a total of $1100 and converted an empty bedroom, which we already pay to heat anyway, so the only extra expense for us is a bit of electricity to run the monitors. But the savings are substantial on gas, transit, insurance, vehicle wear and tear, clothing, buying lunch, and time. We already had internet. So it works great for everybody. One could argue that saving all that money is bad for the economy but nope, we find other places to spend it.

If Zuck wants to make the argument that a person’s living expenses have a bearing on what they can command as salary for their work, explain Vancouver? Why does one of the most expensive places to live in Canada command relatively similar salaries as anywhere else? Why don’t people get paid more to live there? They could fix the house price to income ratio by raising incomes but yet they do not. The market doesn’t work that way. The invisible hand does not care what you spend your money on, only what you are worth.

The only case there would be for paying work from home workers less than their office counterparts would be if the work from home workers are found to be less productive than those who work in the office. Otherwise all that is going on here is Zuck is making a pretty brash play to claw back the savings to himself. It won’t work, because work from home workers are free to seek employment elsewhere just as office workers are. And he’s already going to save a bunch on office space so one has to ask how much money he needs.

I wouldn’t worry about the economy through all this saving money. In theory my expense is another man’s income but that will continue. People are very creative at spending their money. Less money spent getting to work during the week will undoubtedly just become more money spent on the weekend. The economy won’t “shrink”, it’ll “shift”. All that is happening is the changes that have been predicted for the last 20 years will accelerate. And I think it will result in a better world. Why are we spending so much of our precious resources maintaining 2 properties (a home and an office) and transporting 170 lb butts back and forth in 2000 lb vehicles on increasingly congested roadways? What’s the sense in that? We built the internet so we could watch free porn, but now that it’s here why not use it to make the world a better place? So what if the city doesn’t need to build as many interchanges and flyovers? We’ll find other ways to spend the money and maybe they will be more satisfying to the soul than another concrete overpass.

This could be a great leap forward. Probably not as big as the Model T but maybe.

#89 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.24.20 at 7:05 pm

@#66 The Real Kip
“Wow, are you setting Ryan and Doug up for a pay cut? Not sure they’ll like that.”
++++

You’re kidding right?
Garth works for them for a dollar a year because he enjoys this blog comment section so much.

#90 Bezengy on 06.24.20 at 7:13 pm

#47 Dr Talc on 06.24.20 at 5:21 pm
Bill Morneau clears things up:
————-
Kiddo says to Daddo (me) she’s off to get a free burger from her buddy Bill in the hood (downtown Toronto). I tell her to show up early cause the man isn’t good with numbers. She calls two hours later and tells me the hot dog was great. Go figure…no pun intended.

#91 Tripp on 06.24.20 at 7:18 pm

We lived in different areas and had various degrees of expenses even before the covid. The employees should be paid on their contribution to a company’s profit, development and innovation, not on their resident area code. This is just corporate greed, and having it coming from FB is not a surprise.

#92 Exodus 1 on 06.24.20 at 7:20 pm

“And the lord Dog looked down upon the masses and wondered why they wanted to live on top of each other and not even have a nice patch of grass to lie in the sun and chew on a Milk Bone. So he said “woof, woof, woof”, which loosely translates “let us give the humans the opportunity to live as we do! Let there be suburbs and rural areas with back yards and dog parks. Let their destinations be dog friendly so we can ride in the cars. Let them be at home so they can more fully enjoy our affection.” And so it came to be. Thus ends today’s reading.

#93 Leftover on 06.24.20 at 7:26 pm

One other nugget for the real estate optimists:

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/sovereigns/fitch-downgrades-canada-ratings-to-aa-outlook-stable-24-06-2020

This doesn’t mean that mortgage rates are going to skyrocket, at least not just yet. But it does portend of things to come. If we can’t get a handle on things and stop the bleeding then the bond market will not be kind.

#94 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.24.20 at 7:32 pm

@#69 Ramshackle
‘My birthday is this weekend and all of my friends are coming up north to the family cottage with me and my wife to celebrate!”
++++

Can i come?
And is it ok if I bring a few friends from the States?

#95 restofthestory on 06.24.20 at 7:33 pm

“It is a $1.2 billion company not $1.2 million company left Seattle to Arizona”

Smead Capital Management. Mr. Smead stated that the move was planned back in January and has nothing to do with current events.

#96 jsto on 06.24.20 at 7:35 pm

Pay should be based on productivity, not the Location or Perceived Expenses of the Employee! Poor economic decisions and subjective determination of one’s standard of living can lead to further problems.

#97 Trojan House on 06.24.20 at 7:39 pm

If an employer reduces an employee’s pay in Ontario, it is deemed a constructive dismissal and an employee could be entitled to full severance pay.

On another note…Garth, does that mean I should hold off on spending $10,000 to replace the shingles on my roof until next year?

#98 tbone on 06.24.20 at 7:40 pm

My former employer is bringing the sales guys back to the office and reducing their pay .
How do you like that … lol
Glad i am retired and dont need to put up with that place anymore .

#99 Hi Karen! on 06.24.20 at 7:42 pm

#35 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 06.24.20 at 4:53 pm

STAY THE HELL AWAY YOU IDIOTS!

Because we’re already closing down to keep you out anyway.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/sauble-beach-to-close-mayor-partially-blames-thousands-of-toronto-area-beachgoers-1.4995797

/////////////////

Why don’t you just stay off the beach? It isn’t yours just because you live closer to it.

#100 ain't life rand on 06.24.20 at 7:42 pm

absolutely none of your employers business as to where you live. good luck trying to pay someone less based on are code. In this day an age everybody has their eye on any kind of discrimination.

#101 ain't life rand on 06.24.20 at 7:47 pm

@#82 Fulcrum and Lever on 06.24.20 at 6:42 pm
As the dust settles – return to normal means early 90’s home prices across Canada. You Watch! Yes your pile of lumber is worthless without jobs to feed a mortgage
——————————–

Bawahahahhaha!!

Good one.

#102 jal on 06.24.20 at 7:47 pm

#87 Yukon Elvis
You don’t wanna get sick in a foreign country CLM. It can get very expensive and the quality of care can be very poor depending on where you are.
—-
Don’t be shy. Say the country name it start with U

#103 islander on 06.24.20 at 7:49 pm

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/article-do-you-have-high-hopes-for-the-housing-market-these-five-stats-will/

Interesting stats from Seymour Management Consulting (SMC) a consulting firm that specializes in analyzing anxiety levels about money.

There are “25.8 million Canadians between the ages of 18 and 70”

5.86 million Canadians assessed as being financially resilient by SMC. So, “the financially resilient cohort represents 22.7 per cent of the total.”

67 per cent of Canadians ” concerned about their ability to pay their current bills and loans.”

Sobering reading…..

#104 Felix on 06.24.20 at 8:05 pm

That guy on the right looks dogawful.

#105 yvr_lurker on 06.24.20 at 8:11 pm

Anything can be “rationalized” depending on the outcome that wants to be achieved by the people in power. Jobs, sudden market reversals etc.. can all be assigned some BS rationale to fit some pre-determined
outcome or agenda. (Look at what the puppet master Trump does each and every day).

1. There will be a push by some boards of greedy corporations (FB included) to lower salaries for online work with the “rationale” that workers can now live in cheaper communities.
Question: has there been much if any top-up given to workers having to work in dowtown YVR or Toronto due to the expense of living there? (answer: generally no). Are people supposed to just pack up their city digs to head to cheaper outer suburbia to realize these savings, and then to return back to the city once the company decides that online work is not so productive and everyone needs to be back in an office?

However, at this time where jobs in certain sectors might be scarce, it may be difficult for even highly skilled workers to find alternative arrangements. This is why individuals should always be improving their skills and updating and not worrying too much about being overly loyal to the employer.

Bogus “rationales” are also readily assigned to the stock market surges or reversals. A few years ago, “The Greek debt crisis” was pummeling stocks for several months, when Greece makes up a tiny epsilon in world GDP. More reasonably, it was a time for those in the know to quickly harvest profits from the market, wait for the major downturn, and then plough the cash back in. Currently, no market “rationale” than I can see can reasonably explain a TSX that is only around 10-15% off of its peak.

#106 Hmm... on 06.24.20 at 8:13 pm

Just a thought,

Is it less racist to remove black characters like Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben from packaging, or more? Is it now racist to use a black spokesperson? Can we now only have white spokespeople? If you are using a black spokesperson to sell your goods, doesn’t that mean you are not racist and think the black person would make a great spokesperson and all people will respond?

Aunt Jemima’s real life descendants don’t like it one bit.

https://thegrio.com/2020/06/19/aunt-jemima-great-grandson-angry/

She was a free woman with a marketing job. At that time blacks were considered to be excellent cooks. They still are actually just go to a Texas BBQ sometime, or a restaurant in Louisianan. The French have nothing on them.

Was Nike racist for paying Tiger Woods 100’s of millions to represent them? Was the Calgary Flames racist for putting Jerome Iginla on their brand for so many years? Where is this going to stop?

Ok, I know, DELETED.

#107 Drew on 06.24.20 at 8:17 pm

#48 Dominoes Lining Up

That’s a very good point about security from home computers being compromised. I will bring that up with my work place and see what they plan to do about that.

#108 the Jaguar on 06.24.20 at 8:24 pm

Attention blog dogs. It took a few hours, but the ‘bait’ was finally taken. I knew the Mulroney reference would be irresistible to the Marxists trying to sow seeds of discontent on this blog, which is primarily real estate and finance oriented. I stand by my previous comments – ‘ If you need to bring yourself up by pulling others down you will fail. Declarations of ‘White Privilege’ are nothing but racism.’
—————————

See poster – #21 Can’t Beat’em Join’em on 06.24.20 at 4:11 pm

The people had better be voting left if they want this to go easy, but the wealth re-distribution will still happen.

It will begin with UBI, then BLM will take back the resources from the privileged like the Mulroney family. We didn’t come this far, infiltrate politics, schools, executive levels of companies and even the royal family to give up now. People can shrug us off but lawyers, judges, politicians and company leaders who have opposed or even questioned BLM have been cancelled. The most recent cases were the Alberta judge and Jessica Mulroney. Stripped of their privilege, jobs and means of income and in the coming years stripped of their family wealth.

You won’t need your savings or your pensions or family money – you will receive your UBI like everyone else and everyone will be equal. If you worked hard for your pension or savings then you should be happy that you will be taken care of with UBI. The only people that will be worried are those that gained extra through their privilege.’
———————-

I knew one of them would ‘take the bait’, and they did. Now listen to Jordan Peterson’s response which reflects my own views on this subject. Make no mistake. They are organized and coming at everything we hold dear. Look no further than Seattle if you want to understand their motives………………

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZK9h_Mzmu8

#109 Wrk.dover on 06.24.20 at 8:31 pm

#32 DLT INC on 06.24.20 at 4:50 pm
RECOVERING FROM COVID 19 – A CORRECT RESPONSE

——————————————————

When Garth finally feeds me the gloom I crave, don’t upstage the man!

#110 The Woosh on 06.24.20 at 8:32 pm

2015…
2016…
2017…
2018…
2019…
2020…“If you’re caught up in this, believing the faerie poop Remax is peddling, be careful. Logic tells us this won’t last. Normal is not close by.“

Garth…did you copy and paste this from previous years?

#111 NoName on 06.24.20 at 8:37 pm

wfh and pay per postal code…

Work from home will put many in deplorable basket especially those that will receive postal code pay cut. Their prioritys and paradigam
change will be lightning fast.

Just short time wfh was perk and flexibility that companies offered to best candidates now every one gets it and also brings a pay cut.

Lucky, for those that soon will fit under umbrella of former wfh inteligensia, us deplorable have big hart, and we welcome you all. We won’t judge you, if you prefer kryptek over real tree or mossy oak, heck we even look forward to all those lost souls that like new mud splatter camo patterns…

#112 Ballingsford on 06.24.20 at 8:39 pm

#104 Felix on 06.24.20 at 8:05 pm
That guy on the right looks dogawful.
*******
He only had a cat and not a dog to walk to keep in shape. His privates didn’t gain weight either.

#113 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.24.20 at 8:45 pm

Aunt Jemima syrup. Uncle Ben’s rice.
Yawn.
I havent eaten or purchased either crappy processed food in decades.
Tempest in a teapot for the politically correct.
We have to have something “racist” to keep them focused elsewhere while the economy spins down the toilet.
“Look ! An old statue! Burn it!”

#114 Doomsday Prepper on 06.24.20 at 8:54 pm

Ummm
Garth, i am one of the unfortunate ones that would be working a Drake or Adele concert…the entertainment industry has been decimated with little hope on the horizon, so remember, even if you dislike an artist, their shows bring a lot to economies! I wouldn’t be surprised if some stage technicians were your clients.

Can’t we just have Lucinda Williams and Ten fé? – Garth

#115 DON on 06.24.20 at 8:55 pm

“Facebook’s Zuckerberg kicked this conversation into overdrive by telling 48,000 associates in May that people working remotely, living in the boonies where things cost less, could expect a pay adjustment. Down. The rationale was simple. First, the pandemic has gutted business models, wiped out profits and made corporations think hard about survival in a changed world. Cutting costs, reducing structural overhead (rent, salaries, benefits) is essential. Second, equity. If people can work from a location where real estate costs 50% less than in Menlo Park, or SF, or 416 or YVR, they should pocket less than colleagues in the city. Only fair. After all, no commuting, cheaper rents or prices and a lower cost of living.”
*******************
First of all…People still use Face Book? Creepy!

In some areas of BC, the small towns are just as pricey as the larger city’s. Move to a nice retirement town where prices are high and maintain a higher salary, really quiet after 5 pm. Then again retirement booms don’t last forever so sooner or later a potential salary cut.

I might take the pay cut and go to a small unloved town for work life balance. No traffic! 5 minutes to the boat launch and pure serenity.

#116 TurnerNation on 06.24.20 at 9:03 pm

#70 willworkforpickles is that to force people off their land and suffienency and into crowded cities ?
Once the insurance companies begin jacking then eliminating rural insurance…

(Globalist’s .ORGs open state the plan calls for setting 30% of the earth as off limits to people. Charity does begin in one’s own backyard after all.)
Shadowy elites? Or right in our faces:

“Thirty percent of Earth’s surface across land and sea should become protected areas by 2030 to ensure the viability of ecosystems essential to human wellbeing, according to a UN plan released Monday.Jan 14, 2020”

#117 D.D. Corkum on 06.24.20 at 9:21 pm

#44 Tim123 on 06.24.20 at 5:12 pm

The people buying houses right now are losing money in comparison to housing prices in 2021.
I have no idea what these people are thinking.

—-

Well, I find myself buying despite so let me explain.

– Garth’s rule of 90 still applies. Putting everything in a house right now would be reckless, but if you can afford it while remaining diversified then its not so extreme.

– Prices in 2021 months matters more to flippers than people anticipating ownership for a longer horizon.

– The drop won’t be uniform. Some places could be “less bad” an investment than others.

– Finally, its easier to stomach if you think of the house merely as “accommodation” than an “investment”.

#118 Terry on 06.24.20 at 9:25 pm

The second wave of Covid-19 could prove to be even more deadlier than the first wave. It was during the 1918 pandemic. Experts expect the second wave to start surging through the Northern Hemisphere again starting at around November. Yes, the world is changing. Therefore, if you survive, then adapt overcome and change with it. Throw away what doesn’t work anymore. Throw away the past and forget about it. It’s not coming back. Look for opportunity with what works better for you now. First order of business is Survival.

#119 kommykim on 06.24.20 at 9:40 pm

RE: “But 2020 might mark the end of certain things. Fun air travel.”

========================================

Was air travel ever really “fun”?

#120 Chaddywack on 06.24.20 at 9:41 pm

Meanwhile in Vancouver…..

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/home-prices-vancouver-renters-owners-covid-1.5625656

Housing prices have not fallen because people affected by COVID couldn’t afford them to start with.

As much as I would say this in bunk, what I’ve seen is a lot of YVR sales going over ask with multiples in the last few months.

#121 45north on 06.24.20 at 9:56 pm

Facebook’s Zuckerberg kicked this conversation into overdrive by telling 48,000 associates in May that people working remotely, living in the boonies where things cost less, could expect a pay adjustment. Down. The rationale was simple. First, the pandemic has gutted business models, wiped out profits and made corporations think hard about survival in a changed world. Cutting costs, reducing structural overhead (rent, salaries, benefits) is essential. Second, equity. If people can work from a location where real estate costs 50% less than in Menlo Park, or SF, or 416 or YVR, they should pocket less than colleagues in the city. Only fair. After all, no commuting, cheaper rents or prices and a lower cost of living.

let’s back up

first to 1900 – Henry Ford built the assembly line. The bringing together of railroads, shipping, machinery, electric power and labour – made possible huge increases in productivity. In 1904, Ford Motor company produced a thousand cars a day. It was the fact that all these things existed in the same spot that allowed the increase in productivity. Wages went up to recognize the unique combination of resources.

next to 1970 when I started my career. The bringing together of roads, computers and labour made possible big increases in productivity. It was the fact that all these things existed in the same spot that allowed the increase in productivity. Salaries went up to recognize the unique combination of resources.

now to 2020 this boomer is retired. The development of the internet means that productivity can increase but everything doesn’t have to exist in the same spot. There’s lots of spots that are pretty good – as long as you have good internet and good access to an airport. Thunder Bay Ontario is as good as Lunenburg Nova Scotia but Sundridge Ontario isn’t because internet there isn’t good. Compensation goes down because resources don’t have to exist in the same spot.

#122 Sail Away on 06.24.20 at 10:00 pm

It sure is nice that our trap and skeet ranges are open again. Shot a perfect skeet round today- only manage that a few times a year. Picked up takeout dinner and a bottle of wine for the wife so it’s shaping up to be a perfect day x 2.

#123 BobC on 06.24.20 at 10:02 pm

Since you brought up Fauci here’s what he said about wearing a mask before it became political.

https://youtu.be/PRa6t_e7dgI

#124 Dr V on 06.24.20 at 10:03 pm

From last blog – still not an expert 120, 161 & 220.

Here is your post

“if you make less than a certain amount(based on tax return) they would bump it up. Rich or anyone over
$17k in income won’t get a dime. The UBI what I am hearing will be $17,000 year.If you made 15k they would just add 2k,10k they would add 7k”

Followed with

“Universal in the meaning that everyone gets topped up to a minimum $17,000 a year so Universally nobody makes less than $17,000.00—get it. Negative income tax may be a better way to phrase it”

If you google “negative income tax graph” you will get a variety of examples showing income after tax (or subsidy) on the Y axis and income before tax on the X.
There will be two lines that cross where the next tax or subsidy is zero.

Using your base amount of $17k for the Y intercept, the
only people who will get the $17k will be those earning
nothing. If you only earn $1000, they will top you up to
something greater than $17k, though of course the subsidy portion is now less that the $17k.

It usually isn’t worth arguing over definitions, but this one is important, as we might be voting for it (or against it) in the next federal election.

#125 AntMan on 06.24.20 at 10:04 pm

“Logic tells us this won’t last”. What has logic got to do with any of this?

#126 ImGonnaBeSick on 06.24.20 at 10:05 pm

#118 Terry on 06.24.20 at 9:25 pm
The second wave of Covid-19 could prove to be even more deadlier than the first wave. It was during the 1918 pandemic. Experts expect the second wave to start surging through the Northern Hemisphere again starting at around November. Yes, the world is changing. Therefore, if you survive, then adapt overcome and change with it. Throw away what doesn’t work anymore. Throw away the past and forget about it. It’s not coming back. Look for opportunity with what works better for you now. First order of business is Survival.

——

Get back in the bunker Terry.

#127 Bill on 06.24.20 at 10:06 pm

If I fall and crack my chin on the desk while working at home is it a WCB claim?

#128 Ruskin on 06.24.20 at 10:06 pm

Paid based on where you live, not what you do? Seems pretty dodgy to me. Where I worked we had people who had very long commutes, and no one ever said they should be compensated more for their travel time and costs. They were paid based on the job they had. I don’t see why that would change just because people are working from home. Also all the money the companies save on reducing or eliminating office rental space could go to higher wages or better benefits.

#129 kingston boy on 06.24.20 at 10:11 pm

@#118 Terry on 06.24.20 at 9:25 pm
The second wave of Covid-19 could prove to be even more deadlier than the first wave. It was during the 1918 pandemic. Experts expect the second wave to start surging through the Northern Hemisphere again starting at around November. Yes, the world is changing. Therefore, if you survive, then adapt overcome and change with it. Throw away what doesn’t work anymore. Throw away the past and forget about it. It’s not coming back. Look for opportunity with what works better for you now. First order of business is Survival.
————————————————-

Could, might, may…
probably won’t though.

always good to hedge though and get the bunker prepped

#130 ain't life rand on 06.24.20 at 10:15 pm

@#108 the Jaguar on 06.24.20 at 8:24 pm
Attention blog dogs. It took a few hours, but the ‘bait’ was finally taken. I knew the Mulroney reference would be irresistible to the Marxists trying to sow seeds of discontent on this blog, which is primarily real estate and finance oriented. I stand by my previous comments – ‘ If you need to bring yourself up by pulling others down you will fail. Declarations of ‘White Privilege’ are nothing but racism.’
—————————

See poster – #21 Can’t Beat’em Join’em on 06.24.20 at 4:11 pm

The people had better be voting left if they want this to go easy, but the wealth re-distribution will still happen.

It will begin with UBI, then BLM will take back the resources from the privileged like the Mulroney family. We didn’t come this far, infiltrate politics, schools, executive levels of companies and even the royal family to give up now. People can shrug us off but lawyers, judges, politicians and company leaders who have opposed or even questioned BLM have been cancelled. The most recent cases were the Alberta judge and Jessica Mulroney. Stripped of their privilege, jobs and means of income and in the coming years stripped of their family wealth.

You won’t need your savings or your pensions or family money – you will receive your UBI like everyone else and everyone will be equal. If you worked hard for your pension or savings then you should be happy that you will be taken care of with UBI. The only people that will be worried are those that gained extra through their privilege.’
———————-

I knew one of them would ‘take the bait’, and they did. Now listen to Jordan Peterson’s response which reflects my own views on this subject. Make no mistake. They are organized and coming at everything we hold dear. Look no further than Seattle if you want to understand their motives………………

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZK9h_Mzmu8

______________________

JP is the last person anybody should be listening to.

#131 PastThePeak on 06.24.20 at 10:29 pm

#96 jsto on 06.24.20 at 7:35 pm
Pay should be based on productivity, not the Location or Perceived Expenses of the Employee! Poor economic decisions and subjective determination of one’s standard of living can lead to further problems.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No comment on Zuckerberg’s statement. But it is standard practice for large companies with employees in many regions / cities, to have salary “bands / levels” that take location into account.

The same job category will have different salary ranges for NYC or Silicon Valley, vs. Idaho or Ottawa. It isn’t about any one person’s expenses, but rather what salary level a company deems as competitive to the market. More expensive locations typically have higher salary levels. So saying location has no bearing on what salaries will be offered is not correct.

However, downgrading pay if you move to a lower cost city could be very challenging, unless the employment contract explicitly stated the pay was based on being in the office at a given location.

#132 David Colquhoun on 06.24.20 at 10:43 pm

I assumed today’s article would discuss the rating downgrade. Today’s blog was informative and enjoyable, as always, but a rating downgrade is key. Is it not? Bond market, interest rates and ultimately housing market and social programs i.e. CERB. Perhaps the bulk of the article was written pre-announcement and Mr. Turner will really be giving us heck tomorrow. One can hope.

#133 PetertheSeparatistfromCalgary on 06.24.20 at 10:46 pm

I believe this de-fund the police movement if they are “successful” will cause a lot of businesses to move out of liberal cities to more conservative places.

Not only do cops save lives everyday they make it safer for businesses, their employees and customers. Safety is very important to attracting customers.

#134 N on 06.24.20 at 10:54 pm

An interesting tweet….
https://twitter.com/xelan_gta/status/1275965098775973889
What the possibility of 25 yrs mortgage terms (not amortization) being introduced in Canada?

#135 Garth Junior on 06.24.20 at 11:14 pm

3,333 permanent layoffs at Westjet today.

#136 GRG on 06.24.20 at 11:28 pm

LOL. So much for “equal pay for equal work”.

#137 Blutterfy on 06.24.20 at 11:38 pm

I personally plan on flying again and using Airbnb. I’ve been telling everyone “things have never been cleaner”. Like grocery carts sanitized between each use!?!? Amazing. Now I don’t have to worry about my toddler bringing home germs. And she thinks masks are cool. Of course need money to buy plane tickets and Airbnb and gotta fund the bills and portfolio first… :/

#138 NSNG on 06.25.20 at 12:07 am

So if businesses are paying people less to produce ‘things’ and services, it stands to reason that the cost of things and services should come down.

At least that happened at the gas pump. Something tells me the others will need to be dragged kicking and screaming

#139 fishman on 06.25.20 at 12:30 am

You gotta like it when a Hill comes up to die on. My motivation? To Kim Campbell Mackay. Revenge: a dish best eaten cold.

#140 Coho on 06.25.20 at 12:46 am

Prepare for drastically reduced income if where you live determines your wage. It might work out in one sense for people relocating to secure cheaper housing, however a reduction in salary will likely offset the gain– pretext being cheaper housing means less wages paid. In fact who is to “judge” what would be a fair salary. By what metrics will a “fair wage” be determined? What would a “good enough” income for a family living in the boonies be?

Considering that rolling lockdowns will be the new normal, access to restaurants, sporting events, bars, movie theatres, vacations and other activities where people let off steam and recharge will be limited, hence if life becomes dreary, hopeless, one of subsistence and basic existence, then wages will be pegged to be commensurate with such a dry and grayscale lifestyle. After all, what discretionary spending will people need?
None, because there will be nowhere to spend it except perhaps on gadgets and trinkets on Amazon, but these in addition to peoples’ sanity would be deemed “non-essential”.

The new society will be focused primarily on physical needs, not the arts and entertainment, spiritual, creative arts, music, social and community. Got food, got water, got a roof over your head…then good enough for we are but human resources. Better if you are deemed “essential”. The “non-essentials” may be considered a different lesser category and compensated as such.

Government asked for a 2 week shut down to flatten the curve, this when the worst was feared about Covid. Since then it has become clear the virus is not near as deadly as initially feared yet…here we are with extended declarations of emergency, tanked economies, peoples’ lives disrupted if not destroyed and so forth.

Cases are rising in the USA. Granted there is more testing, but what exactly does a positive test indicate? Coronavirus positive, yes, but since many flus and colds are coronaviruses, how do we know this year is all that much different than any other year? Perhaps 30% of those tested come back with positive results, the vast majority being asymptomatic. Well, do we not all carry residue/antibodies of previous bouts of colds and flu? We all get sick and we get better–that is life. Yet, society is being shut down. We’ve been bamboozled to believe something is going on that is different when in reality this kind of hysteria could have been conjured up since the very beginning of when viruses and humans have occupied the same space.

What is most important in all this? It is Trust. What matters is the INTENT. What has transpired…the reaction and fallout of the Covid debacle is all one needs to know about the INTENT of our overlords…and I don’t mean government. Can this group be trusted? Governments are merely the implementers of ruling elite dictates. They asked for two weeks and we are facing structural change, much of which is not only unCanadian but anti human.

We are social creatures toiling to make a living. Most of us live simply. Our tastes are simple, as are our needs–much simpler and less extravagant as those dictating how the rest of us should live. Our overlords never seem to have enough wealth and power. There are many trillions of dollars in relatively few hands. These creatures could end world hunger, inequity and disease and still be rich beyond the imagination of average people. However, there is money to be made off the peoples’ suffering. And as long as the intent of the ruling elite is to profit from the suffering of others, how can we expect any real relief to given to those most in need? How can it end but very badly for all. This is the problem of evil. Parasites need to be reminded that they too will die once they kill their host.

#141 Shelly MacNamara on 06.25.20 at 12:55 am

#2 Doug, there will be no ‘second wave’ in Canada that will be recognized as such. No free press means no truth in reporting. Opposed to the US etc where viable information can still be found:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/23/stock-market-futures-open-to-close-news.html

One would imagine cases might go up after Trudeau’s Riot, but no, the virus took a knee. Like SARS reporting you will die from anything else but Kung Flu. This is what you can expect going forward with anything else that may impact Trudeau’s polling numbers.

#142 Buy? Curious? on 06.25.20 at 1:05 am

Garth! You handsome, eloquent and canine-loving gentleman, why are you trying to slip the ol’ “Workers need to get paid less because the benevolent Overloards have found a way to make EVEN MORE money!” into the collective human consciousness? Really? Why? How much less do you want to pay people? How about put cap on the MAXIMUM you can pay someone?

Full disclosure, I love Garth! I’m grateful for this blog. I listen to his advice and even bought a dog! I come here only to witness the evolution of Canadians becoming Americans. And while I’m at with the disclosure thingy, I’m rich too….but Love is all I have!

#143 Ignorance Is Bliss on 06.25.20 at 1:20 am

#48 Dominoes Lining Up

Regarding potential security breaches for those working with sensitive information at home.

You are so right. Two years ago, I was working for the big green bank as a contact centre rep (answering incoming calls from customers), along with 1200 other souls, all crammed side by side in a big building with its own Tim Hortons. We looked after day-to-day banking, credit card inquiries, mortgage inquiries, etc. I had about 8 different passwords to log into everything. I distinctly remember being told we would never work from home as there were too many security concerns. Well, lo and behold, about a month into the virus, a friend of mine (still employed with them) is working from home and raving about how she loves it so much. So much for all the security issues. It’s amazing how they worked them all out in record time.

#144 palebird on 06.25.20 at 1:24 am

Question that has been bothering me. Does nobody remember the polls during the Hillary Clinton debacle? Has it gotten better? I think it has gotten a lot worse. Things that make you go “hmmm”.

#145 april on 06.25.20 at 1:35 am

# 120 Bull! Where does CBC get it’s information from.
Right! This article is full of misinformation.

#146 Wrk.dover on 06.25.20 at 6:46 am

Today is a new day, all over again.

This afternoon will come another posting of Greater Fool, all over again.

The dogs will line up with their bowls in mouth for free food, all over again.

Perhaps today, it will be an announcement that the frats in suits in corporate headquarters have figured out that if they greatly devalue their own company’s stock value, they can greatly reduce dividends per share, leaving more $$$ for executive bonuses each quarter.

After all, sharing profits with shareholders is akin to corporate socialism. The profits are meant for the executive suite.

Make the quarter, at the expense of all else!

#147 Howard on 06.25.20 at 7:26 am

I do a 36-hour water fast once a week. It’s good for the digestive system. And prevented me from gaining any weight during lockdown.

Also explains much. – Garth

#148 Sky on 06.25.20 at 7:26 am

“Cutting costs, reducing structural overhead (rent, salaries, benefits) is essential. Second, equity. If people can work from a location where real estate costs 50% less than in Menlo Park, or SF, or 416 or YVR, they should pocket less than colleagues in the city. Only fair.”

******************

Nice concept – work from home. Eliminate the physical corporate offices, parking lots full of employee’s cars, workers coming and going.

But you forgot to mention one little thing. These digital employees will be paid in rupees, rubles, yuan and yen. Now that’s REALLY cutting down on costs.

#149 Howard on 06.25.20 at 7:32 am

#144 palebird on 06.25.20 at 1:24 am
Question that has been bothering me. Does nobody remember the polls during the Hillary Clinton debacle? Has it gotten better? I think it has gotten a lot worse. Things that make you go “hmmm”.

——————————–

National polls in 2016 were accurate.

The state polls missed a shift in the last 5 days of the campaign in three key states.

Yes all the 99% Hillary predictions were silly, but Fivethirtyeight.com only put Hillary at 70% chance of winning, which I think was realistic and provided for a non-insignificant chance of Trump pulling it off. Trump’s victory was an epic upset but it was also a fluke. Doesn’t mean he can’t win again, but if you think EVERY poll showing Biden up 10+ points nationally and at 350 electoral votes based on state polling is WRONG – good luck to you on that bet.

#150 Patty on 06.25.20 at 7:50 am

The comment by #48 Dominoes relates to what I have experienced as well.

So many of my colleagues are working at home, using laptops or other devices that just don’t have the system capacity to be reliable. So it has become routine for everyone, managers and hourly staff, to be routing regular emails and important files through their personal gmail accounts to get to each other. (We are told not to use Facebook or Zoom but that’s about it) The IT department just can’t keep up with all the requests to fix things and something new crashes every few days. There really is very little information security left working at home, and maybe we’ve just been lucky so far.

I won’t be surprised if we start hearing stories about security breaches from home. And I think we’re probably many years away from being able to work from home like people think. The tech is just not there yet. And if it comes, it might come with a degree of surveillance that may really freak out home workers.

#151 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.25.20 at 8:23 am

Work from home:
I suppose we will expect the Transit companies to be bleating for more fuel taxes to offset the fewer white collar( racist?) office tower workers commuting in the future….. especially if cars continue to switch to electricity……

#152 Q2 DUPLEX DRIVE on 06.25.20 at 8:27 am

‘So, don’t buy anything big. Borrow nothing. Build your financial reserves.’

Excellent advice. For the past seven years, once I recovered from my financial stupidity phase, I started following this maxim (which basically restates the above):

Live Simply / Live Small / Be Frugal

This works surprisingly well!

#153 TurnerNation on 06.25.20 at 8:40 am

#65 Josh Milliken…Seattle where have I heard that name before. Yes less than a year ago I heard that Seattle would become the seat of the ‘new order’ in USA.
When you hear something bizarro and specific like that you file it away. I recalled it the other day. We’ll see.

#154 NoName on 06.25.20 at 8:48 am

Today picture, il volto di un angelo vs große katastrofe, im sure its not easy now days to be dude on a left and be called große katastrofe…

#155 Wrk.dover on 06.25.20 at 8:52 am

On Colbert last night Jon Stewart referred to a fella named Donald Swamp….

#156 Love_The_Cottage on 06.25.20 at 9:07 am

#150 Patty on 06.25.20 at 7:50 am
…I think we’re probably many years away from being able to work from home like people think. The tech is just not there yet….
_____________
Patty your experience is real and common, but the issue isn’t the tech, it’s that organizations need to spend the time and money to get it in place. This will take time for sure, more at some companies than others. I’ve been working remotely (a much better term, BTW, which included working from a condo in Florida for a few weeks one winter) for years with no issue.

#157 TurnerNation on 06.25.20 at 9:08 am

And so it begins here – in the GTA. A protest which is fine but they turn to smashing police windows and other lawlessness. Car burn outs, taking over roads.
Global Chaos from our globalists. Herded into “Smart cities”/open air camps.
Million dollar house anyone?

Mississauga: Angry residents rally after Malton police shooting 6-21-2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPPPpOn3znc&feature=emb_title

#158 Penny Henny on 06.25.20 at 9:24 am

#80 yorkville renter on 06.24.20 at 6:36 pm
permanent WFH will kill corporate culture and result in unsatisfied employees, more layoffs in Canada and bad hiring decisions… If I can hire someone in Windsor Ontario for my company in Toronto what’s stopping me from hiring someone from the Philippines or India?

also, I think a mandated cut in pay could be grounds for Constructive Dismissal, no?

//////////

if the pay cut is higher than 15% that would most likely be the case

#159 n1tro on 06.25.20 at 9:47 am

anyone for a serving of debt jubilee?

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/al-gore-un-secretary-general-great-reset-global-capitalism

#160 tkid on 06.25.20 at 9:48 am

#21 Heard this talk from every European nation at one time or another. Do you know what the rich did?

They left. Their money left with them or ahead of them.

You can bet your last donut the vast majority of the rich’s money has already left North America.

#161 SunShowers on 06.25.20 at 9:53 am

“He is an example – of entrepreneurship, innovation and capitalist success. He can pay himself whatever the hell he wants. – Garth”

Harvesting and selling people’s personal information to advertisers (sometimes without their knowledge or consent) is not entrepreneurship or innovation.

The only thing Zuckerberg is an example of is how to poison your elderly parents’ brains with echo chambers that permit the flourishing of ridiculous disinformation.

I don’t have Facebook, but my nieces and nephews do, and they tell me how my father in law (who is a nice guy) is completely unhinged on that platform, and shares nonsense about Trudeau being a secret Muslim, or how COVID-19 doesn’t even exist, and this whole pandemic is a hoax by the Chinese government to cripple the American economy. All of these posts that he shares come from immensely active groups with tens to hundreds of thousands of members.

That is Zuckerberg’s legacy. Hordes of insane retirees who believe vaccines cause Sharia Law.

#162 IHCTD9 on 06.25.20 at 9:58 am

Weight gains during the lockdown?

Should be the other way around!

#163 Froze on 06.25.20 at 10:17 am

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/global-housing-market-recovering-gradually-poll-shows-200625033601963.html

#164 TurnerNation on 06.25.20 at 10:34 am

#140 Coho everyone must read your post – twice. You are describing Communism.

See how they ruin businesses using the new weapon, Distancing:

https://cottagelife.com/general/its-going-to-kill-us-sauble-beach-businesses-respond-to-beach-closures/

In a Facebook post, Jackson, cited overwhelmed bylaw officers over the weekend who were unable to enforce social distancing rules on the beaches as one of the reasons for the closures.

#165 45north on 06.25.20 at 10:38 am

tkid: talking about the rich

You can bet your last donut the vast majority of the rich’s money has already left North America.

for where?

#166 Sail Away on 06.25.20 at 10:54 am

CHOP zone resident/business lawsuit against Seattle:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.king5.com/amp/article/news/local/capitol-hill-businesses-sue-seattle-over-handling-of-chop-zone-chaz/281-45d4cb36-3447-4446-9124-ee25af14f129

#167 P.Ooched on 06.25.20 at 11:04 am

>But 2020 might mark the end of certain things. Fun air travel. Conventions. Adele and Drake concerts (there are benefits, too). Sixty-storey condos. Commuting. Open offices. Airbnb.

Adding to the list, perhaps the biggest one there in this country and thats – live sports. NHL Hockey in particular is the one religion/cult that many of us can agree on.

Sure they are going to roll out their ‘made for TV’ product, but I don’t know if it will be recieved quite the same. Plus it will definitely not have the same economic impacts of the live version with all those exhorbitantly priced bum in seats tickets that will NOT be sold, the beers not drunk, the hot dogs not eaten, the parking fees not scalped, …

Throw in the same impacts on a smaller scale for the semi pro teams/leagues and the many, many junior teams operating across the country, where its unlikely that a made for TV product alone would be a viable option.

And then we can look at the other live sporting action (NBA, MLB, MLS, CFL) that wont be happening – anytime soon, likely a smaller scale impact but still significant. Yikes scary

Oh well, maybe we can try a few outdoor events and if they go off without a hitch, who knows – Hockey started out being played outdoors, maybe we’ll go back to it.

#168 Ace Goodheart on 06.25.20 at 11:11 am

Pandemics last around 2 years. This one is far from over.

A virus is one of the most wacky, incomprehensible little creatures ever to spend its non-life, not-living on this planet. As history shows us (and no one ever listens to history) we are nowhere near the end of this.

Fortunately, we have tons of misinformation circulating around, people are being given a very false sense of security by being ordered to wear face masks (which do nothing to stop a virus), while we continue to package everything we eat and drink and purchase, in plastic.

If you have a chance, and you want to really frighten yourself, read up on corona viruses and their ability to live on plastic surfaces.

These viruses have a soft outer shell. It is almost liquid. most surfaces will quickly destroy such a virus. Except plastic. Plastic is like a virus incubator. They can live on it in excess of five days.

So you have all these people, now constantly touching their faces to put on and take off their completely useless face masks, and what are they touching other than their faces?

Plastic.

Lots and lots and lots of plastic.

Do yourselves a favour. Wash your hands after ever time you touch something that is made of plastic. Use lots of soap. Soap destroys the virus’s outer shell, and thus destroys the virus. Any soap will do. Use plenty of it.

There is so much misinformation circulating about this situation it really is annoying to watch it. I see people walking around in stores, picking up plastic items, and then removing their face masks to scratch their face, or to take a sip out of something they are drinking. The average person touches their face mask about two times every five minutes or so. While continually touching plastic items. They then bring all the plastic items home, remove their face masks, and potentially bring this virus into their houses.

#169 SeeB on 06.25.20 at 11:29 am

#45 Data Science and Statistics on 06.24.20 at 5:14 pm
Garth,

Canada’s triple AAA rating is gone already. So if the corporations are happy with everyone working WFH…I don’t know about the MORALLY AND FISCALLY BANKRUPT CANADIAN govt.

You can deduct the part of your costs that relates to your work space, such as the cost of electricity, heating, maintenance, property taxes, and home insurance. However, you cannot deduct mortgage interest or capital cost allowance.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/forms/t2200.html

You forgot to mention that pesky T2200 refund that the people are owed, it’s the LAW and if JTurdeau will try to adjust this legislation to diminish/negate the refund, HE will LOSE BIG as half the country will sue the GOVT and there will be a tax revolt..

The Canadian govt will be bankrupt in a flash next year and the year after that. An extra 20-25 billions only from T2200 refunds. It works if 5% of your workforce WFH not when 70% does it…LOL

CHEERS

——————————————————-

People were never allowed to deduct property taxes from running a home business in the first place. So stop using some fancy name to make yourself look smarter while you spread misinformation for sake of your political agenda, and instead spend 5 minutes using Google to find the answers you need (rather than want to see).

https://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/taxes/can-you-deduct-home-office-expenses-if-youre-forced-to-work-from-home-during-the-pandemic#:~:text=Assuming%20you%20do%20qualify%20to,depreciation%20(capital%20cost%20allowance).

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/deductions-credits-expenses/line-229-other-employment-expenses/commission-employees/work-space-home-expenses.html

#170 SeeB on 06.25.20 at 11:40 am

#133 PetertheSeparatistfromCalgary on 06.24.20 at 10:46 pm
I believe this de-fund the police movement if they are “successful” will cause a lot of businesses to move out of liberal cities to more conservative places.

Not only do cops save lives everyday they make it safer for businesses, their employees and customers. Safety is very important to attracting customers.

——————————————————

Perfect, you have incentive to support the movement then. But, if you’re hoping to build your utopia on like-minded people who will ” move out of liberal cities to more conservative places”, whatever that means, then it also better attract some of the folks willing to build the infrastructure, work the coffee shops, drive the delivery trucks, cook the food, clean the toilets… Not saying they won’t, but you should start working on your strategy.

#171 IHCTD9 on 06.25.20 at 11:50 am

Nice, got an email this am telling me my #2 customer is packing it in and moving to the US of A.

It’s probably time for me to start thinking about plan C (I’m currently on career #2). My industry has been shrivelling up since ‘08, and then Trudeau showed up, and the decline is now accelerating. I’ve been in this sector since I was 23, and the only expansion in work I ever saw was 00-08.

If Ottawas’ plan is to keep kicking the resource and manufacturing sectors in the ribs, then it’s just a matter of time before we’re all out of work.

#172 Don Guillermo on 06.25.20 at 12:01 pm

#130 ain’t life rand on 06.24.20 at 10:15 pm
@#108 the Jaguar on 06.24.20 at 8:24 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZK9h_Mzmu8
______________________
JP is the last person anybody should be listening to.

******************************************
Please elaborate. I sometimes listen to him.

As for WFH discussions, it’s quite simple. If you can work from home, that can be anywhere on the planet. The employer now has hundreds of thousands maybe millions of people that can do what you do. Supply and demand?

#173 Faron on 06.25.20 at 12:06 pm

#140 Coho on 06.25.20 at 12:46 am

et al.

coho, 11 majillion points today.

Glad you guys are doing some hard thinking about SARS-CoV2. That one yesterday about googling case numbers was AWESOME. I’m sure your mastery of google/reddit/facebook/4chan/foxnews are digging up heretofore uninvestigated niches of the pandemic. Kudos to you. It’s almost certain that tens of thousands of medical professionals and infectious disease experts who have seen a million flu/cold seasons in aggregate don’t have a clue what they are talking about. Citizen science at its finest.

branches of science now under question by the wacko right:

–Atmospheric science – check (unless its a weather report or THE POLAR VORTEX!!!!)

–Geology – check (unless it brings them moar oil or gold)

–Medical/biological – check (unless they have cancer, need surgery or otherwise like to talk about all their medical procedures, then they are all for it)

–Oceanography – check… I didn see no grbage ptch an I drove right through it. Pass the Tuna!

–Chemistry – not yet. But they’re coming for you!

–Physics – who knows. too smrt.

Top o’ the morning from your elite, leftist contributor,
Faron

PS: please line up for your rations of freedom gruel just to the left of the sani station. thx.

#174 Vstrom Rider on 06.25.20 at 12:19 pm

Those reasons to try to justify pay cuts are such BS. An employee produces the same work regardless if he lives in Toronto or Pickle Lake, so why should his location matter? I understand different countries (or even provinces) have different regulations, taxes, healthcare laws, vacation laws, etc that might make an employee in one country more expensive, but there are no such differences within the same province in Canada! If you get CPP/OAS, you don’t get more or less depending on how expensive your town is. And what about all the money they’ll save by having less office space? This is just an excuse greedy employers have to pay us less. As if we’re not paid low enough already. People working in my company’s seattle office get paid about $50,000 more than I do for doing the same job. They know they can pay canadians significantly less and we have to put up with it because we have no choice.

#175 IHCTD9 on 06.25.20 at 12:21 pm

#131 PastThePeak on 06.24.20 at 10:29 pm

No comment on Zuckerberg’s statement. But it is standard practice for large companies with employees in many regions / cities, to have salary “bands / levels” that take location into account.

The same job category will have different salary ranges for NYC or Silicon Valley, vs. Idaho or Ottawa. It isn’t about any one person’s expenses, but rather what salary level a company deems as competitive to the market. More expensive locations typically have higher salary levels. So saying location has no bearing on what salaries will be offered is not correct.

However, downgrading pay if you move to a lower cost city could be very challenging, unless the employment contract explicitly stated the pay was based on being in the office at a given location.
—-

Let’s say Z gets some allies who own big tech companies who agree, and some momentum builds. Then it will happen slowly over time as rural workers accept lower pay that urban ones will for the same job, and it keeps happening.

I watched manufacturing procurement and mechanical engineering jobs go from good paying solid employment to bottom pay entry level positions as technology and immigration slowly wore the expertise required down to a nub, and a never ending line up of new Canadians formed willing to work for less and less. These jobs in this sector are garbage today, and most move on from them in under 2 years.

This was accomplished over 10-15 years or so.

IMHO, wfh has potential for a better life, and frankly you can take a giant pay cut off urban wages and still increase your quality of life huge living in smaller centres. Some may be jonesing for this development. If enough do, then Z (and others) will get his (and their) wish(s).

#176 Flop... on 06.25.20 at 12:23 pm

Bill
If I fall and crack my chin on the desk while working at home is it a WCB claim?

////////////////////

Hey Bill, I talked about it a little bit up-thread.

My wife was directed, not sure if it was the union or the school board, to not leave the house until the shift was over to be covered by WCB.

They gave a couple of examples.

Out walking your dog on your lunch break?

Not covered.

Out doing errands, even though some could be considered work related?

Not covered.

Same old, same old.

Go home, stay home…

M46BC

#177 Doug in London on 06.25.20 at 12:28 pm

Yes, don’t buy anything big, but if you are in cash and waiting to get into stocks, here’s your chance because they are on sale today. A few suggestions include XRE-T and T-NY. Right now we’re about as far from Boxing Day as possible, but you’d never know it looking at stock and ETF prices.

#178 Vstrom Rider on 06.25.20 at 12:34 pm

“He is an example – of entrepreneurship, innovation and capitalist success. He can pay himself whatever the hell he wants. – Garth”

You think Facebook was an innovative invention? It was just a rip off of myspace. Zuckerberg wasn’t innovative, he was just extremely lucky with Facebook. He was at the right place at the right time and that is why Facebook became as big as it did. There were countless other social networks which went nowhere, not because they were worse than facebook, but because of luck.

Tell us about your success. – Garth

#179 Job#1 on 06.25.20 at 12:35 pm

#173 Faron

Is it possible you can man make your point(s) without being snide, smug or sanctimonious? Your own all-knowing attitude detracts from the message you want to impart. Stick to the point and leave out the histrionics.

#180 JB on 06.25.20 at 12:41 pm

#250 TurnerNation on 06.24.20 at 2:37 pm

#209 JB a story that big would have made the news.
What’s your solution? Ban condos? Wear a bio hazard suit in the elevator?
………………………………………………………………
You are right they don’t make the news. The city has has 1061 deaths since this virus hit. So to print every detail every day would be daunting. The only printing are about outbreaks that have to occur within the same location with a minimum of fifteen deaths reported within a specific period of time. This is only broadcast for hospitals and retirement homes. Private domiciles are exempt for this reporting including homes, apartments ans condos. The exception is breakouts at workplaces where they could cause jeopardy to incoming workers and interfacing with other public people. These have to be reported. How do I know this my wife is a nurse. The fact is that once this virus hits closed environments it ricochets condo to condo via contact and spray. Death knell for older people. They are the ones that should not be in condos. Their death rate is highest in the bracket.

#181 IHCTD9 on 06.25.20 at 12:45 pm

#166 Sail Away on 06.25.20 at 10:54 am
CHOP zone resident/business lawsuit against Seattle:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.king5.com/amp/article/news/local/capitol-hill-businesses-sue-seattle-over-handling-of-chop-zone-chaz/281-45d4cb36-3447-4446-9124-ee25af14f129
—-

Total misunderstanding by the dozen+ businesses. They just haven’t realized that they now live in a state of nirvana.

Seriously though, if they lose this case, they’re gone. Every last one of them. Those business owners not in the chop zone will be meditating on the consequences thereof of said loss as well.

Actually, this decision could be the kick off for a permanent non-resuscitation of Seattle…

#182 ain't life rand on 06.25.20 at 12:46 pm

@#179 Job#1 on 06.25.20 at 12:35 pm
#173 Faron

Is it possible you can man make your point(s) without being snide, smug or sanctimonious? Your own all-knowing attitude detracts from the message you want to impart. Stick to the point and leave out the histrionics.——-
————

he’s just trying to fit in here.
doing a good job of to.
Carry on Faron.

#183 Vstrom Rider on 06.25.20 at 12:53 pm

“If I can hire someone in Windsor Ontario for my company in Toronto what’s stopping me from hiring someone from the Philippines or India?”

Working from an office instead of from home is no guarantee that your job can’t be outsourced. Entire offices were closed in Toronto and replaced by new offices in India.

#184 ain't life rand on 06.25.20 at 12:56 pm

@#161 SunShowers on 06.25.20 at 9:53 am
“He is an example – of entrepreneurship, innovation and capitalist success. He can pay himself whatever the hell he wants. – Garth”

Harvesting and selling people’s personal information to advertisers (sometimes without their knowledge or consent) is not entrepreneurship or innovation.

The only thing Zuckerberg is an example of is how to poison your elderly parents’ brains with echo chambers that permit the flourishing of ridiculous disinformation.

I don’t have Facebook, but my nieces and nephews do, and they tell me how my father in law (who is a nice guy) is completely unhinged on that platform, and shares nonsense about Trudeau being a secret Muslim, or how COVID-19 doesn’t even exist, and this whole pandemic is a hoax by the Chinese government to cripple the American economy. All of these posts that he shares come from immensely active groups with tens to hundreds of thousands of members.

That is Zuckerberg’s legacy. Hordes of insane retirees who believe vaccines cause Sharia Law.

—————————————

Normal people use FB to stay in touch with friends/family. people suffering from various degrees of mental illness use it as a conspiracy/news source.
if it wasn’t Facebook it’d be something else with your FIL. paranoia seems to be taking the lead when it comes to mental illness these days

#185 Damifino on 06.25.20 at 1:00 pm

The real purpose of face masks:

Just as funerals are for survivors and not the deceased, face masks are for everyone except the wearer.

They represent a sign of ‘caring’ for those around you, especially public-facing workers who lack the option of hiding away from the danger posed by YOU.

Yes, viruses are incredibly small and there’s little chance a non-medical (or medical) mask will block them on an inward path. However, the grand spray of droplets each of us exhale are, for viruses, express buses to other people’s lungs. Masks can stop much of that.

It’s not all about you. Why is that a difficult concept?

#186 Iconoclast on 06.25.20 at 1:02 pm

The reason IT departments resisted Work-From-Home in the past is that they’re lazy. Lazy and stupid. It was more work with no benefit to them. Capital cost used to be an issue, but with a super-premium laptop costing under 2K, not so much anymore.

If you were in an environment that let people use laptops for after-hours work, the only change from doing it fulltime is increased load on the VPN. Corporate antivirus/firewall/monitoring systems are already in place for all of these.

A lot of other work can be done via remote access. Think Teamviewer/VNC/Citrix. In a way, it’s back to dumb-terminal days.

If your work didn’t epoxy-fill your USB ports in the office, there is no need to do so at home. Most don’t, because frankly, nobody cares about your TPS reports.

The real risk now is file-locking malware on servers. These can be an extinction event for businesses. (Certainly for IT directors jobs) The attack surface doesn’t really change much for these with remote work.

#187 jess on 06.25.20 at 1:08 pm

“redefining modern ”

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/2020/06/25/axed-condo-deals-at-220-dundurn-spark-two-lawsuits.html

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/2016/08/04/denis-vranich-developer-brings-new-life-to-abandoned-factory.html

#188 Faron on 06.25.20 at 1:08 pm

#179 Job#1 on 06.25.20 at 12:35 pm

#173 Faron

Thanks. I take that sincerely. Yes I can.

For one thing, I like to play around with styles.

For the other, well, sometimes reading posts by armchair pundits with IMHO tagged on at the end even though the post perfectly reflects what was just said on FoxNews (so isn’t really their HO) gets irritating.

For another, let’s start with this: I don’t like realtors, but I don’t pretend to tell them what to do. I don’t agree with Sail Away, but I would never tell him how to go about designing/engineering something. Politicians, same. I’m ever so thankful that there are people who dedicated their lives to drilling and filling teeth with great skill and care even if I may not like that person or their views and even if they cause me pain at the time of performing their work. Science and the work that scientists do falls into these categories.

Science has given humanity a lot (I admit that’s arguable, but a separate discussion) and depends on some hierarchy of knowledge. Anyone can do it, but you have to start at the bottom reading a shit ton of papers and learning the basics and then work your way up to becoming an expert. It’s not a perfect system and it is exclusive by nature. But, it also works well for minimizing the human tendency to observe patterns where none exist, separating the wheat from the chaff and for crystalizing knowledge from the unknown. It’s also the only system that we, as humans, have for increasing our real knowledge about how nature — which we are a part of — works. The process is under threat by a US government that has no damn clue about how science works and a social media fuelled conspiracy culture that thinks it knows better. This infuriates me.

I respect expertise and will usually hear out those who I know to be more knowledgeable about almost anything. I’d even listen to Donald Trump if he were to talk about real estate deals or TV production. Questioning experts is fine, but at the end of the day, it’s helpful to know who knows more about something than I do. That alone saves everyone time and allows us all to focus on the things we do well.

Lastly, this place is pretty dystopian and arbitrary and seems mostly to serve as a means for people to feel superior to others and be rightous. It’s fun to toss firecrackers down a well and listen to the BANG reverberate. Seemingly harmless entertainment excepting the trolls that live in that darkness.

#189 Sail away on 06.25.20 at 1:41 pm

#187 Faron on 06.25.20 at 1:08 pm

…I don’t like realtors, but I don’t pretend to tell them what to do. I don’t agree with Sail Away, but I would never tell him how to go about designing/engineering something. Politicians, same. I’m ever so thankful that there are people who dedicated their lives to drilling and filling teeth with great skill and care even if I may not like that person or their views and even if they cause me pain at the time of performing their work. Science and the work that scientists do falls into these categories.

—————-

But, but… you haven’t told us your area of expertise. What are your own bona fides?

Here’s what we know about you:

-You write well
-You appear to have knowledge of statistics, research and peer review
-You run/race ultras
-Your salary is around $100k and you can save about 1/2 your take-home
-Your family has alcohol dependency issues
-You hang out with junkies sometimes
-You are a self-proclaimed lefty
-You’re 42
-You enjoy Annie Proulx, which is fairly stark literature. Probably also a fan of Cormac McCarthy.
-You believe white privilege exists, but paradoxically feel that stable upbringing is more important, regardless of race
-You feel materialism is vulgar (this one’s my assumption)

Obviously anonymity is important to many people and mentioning your job could blow your cover. My guess is UVic, probably single, maybe gay. Likely a prof in the arts with some training in mathematics, which you weave into your lectures to impress students with your broad spectrum of knowledge.

Close?

#190 Damifino on 06.25.20 at 1:43 pm

#184 ain’t life rand

Normal people use FB to stay in touch with friends/family. […] if it wasn’t Facebook it’d be something else […]
————————————-

Agreed.

And for me, it is something else. With email, text and old fashioned voice I’m able to communicate effectively with everyone near and dear to me as well those I might deal with on a professional basis. No Zuckerberg is involved.

Of course, it does leave people willing to communicate only via Facebook quite invisible to me.

I’m good with that. Send me a text if there’s a probelm.

#191 Blacksheep on 06.25.20 at 1:49 pm

n1tro # 159

“anyone for a serving of debt jubilee?”
————————————–
Here is a repost of what I said here, pre pandemic:

Blacksheep # 97 on Dec/10/19

“Paging: Professor Stephanie Kelton?

I’ve commented here in the past year to watch out for two phrases: Debt Jubilee & Modern Money Theory.
At the time it seemed obvious (and still does) that western capitalist systems, for a multitude of reasons, must find a way to avoid a civil revolution, while desperately trying to keep the consumer’s spending.
But the problem for sovereign gov systems is this:

If MMT, a Debt Jubilee or a Basic Income is publicly implemented, on national scale, the system will be forced to disclose how taxation / money / lending, actually works.

This is going to cause some very strong negative emotions, against sovereign currencies from the populace, especially those whom have been responsible, sacrificed lifestyle and saved.

Now where’s that popcorn….”
————————————-
Sure, it’s only Fox news, but the UN and Al Gore are from the hard left.

n1tro’s link supplied:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/al-gore-un-secretary-general-great-reset-global-capitalism

Quotes from the link:

” “The Great Reset is a welcome recognition that this human tragedy must be a wake-up call,” said U.N. Secretary-General Guterres. “We must build more equal, inclusive and sustainable economies and societies that are more resilient in the face of pandemics, climate change and the many other global changes we face.” ”

“Al Gore, the king of climate alarmism, recently touted the “Great Reset” during an interview on NBC’s “Today” television show.

” “So, I think this is a time for a ‘Great Reset,’ Gore said. “We’ve got to fix a lot of these problems that have been allowed to fester for way too long. And the climate crisis is an opportunity to create tens of millions of new jobs, clean up the air, and reduce the death rate from pandemics, by the way, because the air pollution from burning fossil fuels heightens the death rates from coronavirus. So, this is a time for a reset to fix a bunch of challenges, first among them the climate crisis.” ”

“We’re still in the earliest phase of the Great Reset. The full plan won’t be rolled out until January 2021, when the World Economic Forum will host its annual meeting in Davos.”

#192 JB on 06.25.20 at 2:04 pm

God damn some of the people in Florida are dumb as $hit.
Just listen to each one of these wackos talk.

https://cbs12.com/news/local/throw-gods-wonderful-breathing-system-out-the-door

#193 JB on 06.25.20 at 2:11 pm

#188 JB on 06.25.20 at 2:04 pm

God damn some of the people in Florida are dumb as $hit.
Just listen to each one of these wackos talk.

https://cbs12.com/news/local/throw-gods-wonderful-breathing-system-out-the-door
……………………………………………
As an afterthought these people that spoke at the Palm Beach County Board of County Commissioners should not wear masks. Please don’t wear a mask, go out and mingle, schmooze, ca-jingle, kissy, kissy what ever you want. For gods sake go and lick some buggy’s at Walmart while your at it. Geese.

#194 Love_The_Cottage on 06.25.20 at 2:31 pm

#174 Vstrom Rider on 06.25.20 at 12:19 pm
They know they can pay canadians significantly less and we have to put up with it because we have no choice.
______
No choices? Upgrade your skills. Find another job. Network. Move. Go back to school. Complain about it on a message board. Which of these choices seems the least likely to help?

#195 Sail away on 06.25.20 at 2:38 pm

#192 JB on 06.25.20 at 2:11 pm

For gods sake go and lick some buggy’s at Walmart while your at it. Geese.

————-

Lick the geese, too? Let the geese lick the buggies?

What do geese have to do with Florida? So confusing.

#196 fused on 06.25.20 at 2:43 pm

So many people posting about how wrong it is for companies to cut their wages when they move to a LCOL area. I see posts now that it would be viewed as constructive dismissal and severance would need to be paid, not a big deal for companies as it would be just a cost of doing business. The severance payout will be easily recouped by much lower wages and benefits in the long run(gig economy).
In Ontario every child will now be taught coding so in fifteen years every person in Ontario will have a great knowledge of coding. This will drive down the wages even more since by grade seven some kids will have more skills than university educated people now.
Why pay high wages when some kid at home on the weekend can develop your app for you and troubleshoot your system with what he learned in grade six.
Hey millennial realist this is the change that is going to absolutely run you guys over, be part of the change, low pay high tech jobs, (the new barista job) or get out of the way.

#197 Faron on 06.25.20 at 2:58 pm

#188 Sail away on 06.25.20 at 1:41 pm

#187 Faron on 06.25.20 at 1:08 pm

But, but… you haven’t told us your area of expertise. What are your own bona fides?

At risk of positive ID — although I thought standing up for physical sciences would have told you — I’m not in the arts/social sciences:

B.Sc. chemistry, M.Sc. geography/climate science, Ph.D. geology/atmospheric science. Considering returning to school to study economics.

I’d appreciate not being doxxed.

straight, not single. PC AF but can be annoyed by PC culture as can almost everyone.

Currently employed in my field.

Waste waaaaaay too much time here.

#198 BillyBob on 06.25.20 at 3:05 pm

#130 ain’t life rand on 06.24.20 at 10:15 pm

JP is the last person anybody should be listening to.

===========================================

*awkward pause*

Errr…sweet rebuttal bro.

#199 Faron on 06.25.20 at 3:18 pm

#188 Sail away on 06.25.20 at 1:41 pm

#187 Faron on 06.25.20 at 1:08 pm

-You believe white privilege exists, but paradoxically feel that stable upbringing is more important, regardless of race

-You feel materialism is vulgar (this one’s my assumption)

w/re the first: It’s not a paradox. They are interlinked and in the US, entrenched historical norms persist to make it way more likely that nonwhite don’t benefit from a stable upbringing and onward. Among other factors.

I am a member of a yacht club, drive or bike through a toney neighbourhood to get there and have to keep my stomach from turning whenever I go for a sail. Hypocracy? you betcha.

#200 Sail away on 06.25.20 at 4:10 pm

#197 Faron on 06.25.20 at 2:58 pm
#188 Sail away on 06.25.20 at 1:41 pm
#187 Faron on 06.25.20 at 1:08 pm

But, but… you haven’t told us your area of expertise. What are your own bona fides?

————-

At risk of positive ID — although I thought standing up for physical sciences would have told you — I’m not in the arts/social sciences:

B.Sc. chemistry, M.Sc. geography/climate science, Ph.D. geology/atmospheric science. Considering returning to school to study economics.

I’d appreciate not being doxxed.

————-

Yes, that’s closer to the field I actually thought you’d be working. Just messing with you, and with the gay thing as well.

Thanks for the responses.

And doxing would never be my style, but best to be careful if you’re going to be controversial since there are definitely looney toons out there.

#201 BayArea on 06.25.20 at 6:55 pm

I can understand the thinking behind reduced wages for less expensive areas.

I live in the Bay Area and salaries here are substantially higher than elsewhere in the US simply because of the high cost of living here. A three bedroom rental will run you over $4k per month here. In Colorado that same property may be $2K. Property taxes in Colorado for a 4 bedroom may be $2300. In the Bay Area that may be $12000. In order to get talent in these expensive areas companies have to shell out a fortune to entice people here, so these premium salaries will get adjusted when the staff moves back to more affordable regions. If it is reasonable to pay a premium for high cost areas, then it is reasonable to pay less for the more affordable areas. It would be difficult to argue otherwise.

#202 Al on 06.25.20 at 9:07 pm

“Only fair. After all, no commuting, cheaper rents or prices and a lower cost of living.

They should probably be payed based on the value they produce for the company. I’m sure the execs and Zuckerberg will take a reduced compensation of a consumerate amount since their labour cost decreased, only fair. /S. Facebook has shown they can be extremely profitable at the current salary rates, so I guess they just want to pay some of their employees less so others(execs, sharholders) can have more. I guess a gazillion is not enough Z. Cool.

#203 the Jaguar on 06.26.20 at 8:20 am

Good article in today’s Financial Post entitled ‘Living on a Knife’s Edge’ about consumer debt. Focus on american households, but easily applies to Canada. Excerpt here:

Amir Sufi, an economist at the University of Chicago, argues that because of lower rates and forbearance, the probability of a default crisis is much lower this time. But he sees another risk in all the new debt — household, government and corporate — that will be created to prop up demand.

“The longer- term risk is that the Fed policies along with the forbearance programs will encourage more and more debt,” he says. “It’s not a freebie just because rates are low and there are not defaults.”

Rising household debt amounts to the slow transfer of wealth from debtors, who tend to have lower incomes and a high propensity to spend, to lenders in the US and abroad, who tend to be richer and to save.

The result is a U. S. economy caught in a cycle of rising debt, low rates and weaker demand.’