The dilemma

Dipper leader Jagmeet Singh did a victory lap on Parliament Hill this week after blackmailing the Trudeauites into another $34 billion in CERB payments. The program will have dished out roughly $90 billion to workers claiming a virus impact by the time it ends (Christmas).

In exchange for allowing the T2 gang to survive a money vote (confidence), Singh demanded – and received – the 16-week benefits extension. And so the most costly short-term social program in Canadian history continues. Rest assured his next demand will be for UBI. If the Libs don’t agree to start crafting a universal basic income, well, we get an election. Ironically that could wipe out the lefties and usher in a Liberal majority. (Peter? Erin? Anybody home?)

The deficit for 2020 may well be $300 billion (the indie PBO says $256 billion so far). The federal debt will squirt past $1 trillion. The debt-to-GDP ratio will rise from the mid-30% range to 50%. With provincial borrowing added, the number becomes 90%. Still better than the US (110%) but poor contrasted with Germany (60%). Expect these comparisons when Bill Morneau gives his ‘fiscal snapshot’ on July 8th arguing that it’s no big deal when the deficit increases by a factor of 10 in a single year or that one administration adds more new debt than any which has gone before.

Chances are most voters will agree. After all, eight million households are getting direct deposits of two grand a month. Four in ten already pay no net tax. Child support benefits have inflated bigly. Wrinklies receive more, too. Plus billions going to companies to subsidize the wages of people who aren’t working, and business loans a quarter of which is forgivable.

It’s all astonishing. And as Galen Weston found out in the last few days, you can never take back what you generously gave. Society has turned. Not for the better.

Well, let’s dive into a single little example in the life of one woman to ascertain the impact of CERB. It’s spring, so we’ll call her Iris. She lives in Ontario, reads this blog and admits being pissed.

Your last post was about CERB extension, so I thought you might be interested in posting just another view. The math is very disturbing. I lost my job due to COVID. I am eligible for unemployment benefit, but was forced to get CERB instead.

Now the interesting part – I was offered a part-time job. First 2 months it paid $2600 and now less hours offered and the pay – $1300. Should I refuse it? It just doesn’t make any sense to work for $1300 when you can get $2000 for doing nothing, right? And the room for extra earning is max $1000 under CERB. However, under old EI benefit more extra earnings allowed, I would get $3592 the first 2 months and $2942 for the third and forth. So overall for 6 months I would lose 2×292 + 2×992 + 2×1642 = $5852

First time in my 20 plus years career I am collecting benefits and so very disappointed and angry. I don’t know what to do. Shouldn’t we all have a choice to collect CERB vs EI? Do I start a petition?

Iris is miffed CERB replaced EI (although she can go back on unemployment benefits when the emergency money ends). This, she argues, is unfair. She feels entitled to the larger amount after twenty years of making EI contributions. But by the time CERB ends, Iris will have collected $16,000, and paid no tax. With an average income of $30,000, it would take 33 years of EI contributions to equal that amount. She’s way ahead of the game. But wants more. Another Galen Moment.

Here is the dilemma. Accepting a job and going to work isn’t even an option in her mind. Why work for less when the government will pay you more to watch Netflix?  It’s a question many are asking since the virus came to town and the direct bank account deposits started.

There are answers, Iris.

Accepting a position can lead to advancement, more hours, better pay and responsibility. Sitting at home watching Space Force does not. Never will. You stay unemployed.

Working means human contact and interaction with others (even with social distancing). To do this you must put your pants on (well, usually), wash your hair, leave the couch and practice social skills. Or you can stay home and hoover cheezies.

Being employed gives daily meaning and context to a life. ‘And what do you do?’ is a universal question. ‘I brush the cat’, is a bad answer. There is a sense of dignity and self-worth that comes when you are paid and have a task. No pogey payment can provide that.

Having a job means building a resume. Staying employed and gainful during a global pandemic will probably be noticed, admired even, by future employers. Staying on the CERB will be noticed, too. So, Iris, why not collect a grand a month for part-time hours, plus an equal amount from Ottawa, and let it be known that you’d like a full-time gig?

Some people worry leaders like Singh (and now, Trudeau) are hastening the destruction of our work ethic. Moreover, they’re helping ensure small business failure. When people get more to do nothing than take temporary, part-time or entry-level employment, what are entrepreneurs to do? Just pay more? But many cannot and stay viable. The failure rate – even in good times – proves the fragility of Main Street.

Yes, millions of people need temporary relief. Covid’s been a bitch. But Iris gives us a small example of the unintended consequences of political actions.

Workers who don’t work. Employers who can’t hire. Soon, taxpayers on the brink.

257 comments ↓

#1 The budget will balance itself on 06.18.20 at 1:12 pm

T2 is just getting warmed up…. it’ll be 400-500 billion for at least a couple of years………

#2 dogman01 on 06.18.20 at 1:21 pm

– Accepting a position can lead to advancement, more hours, better pay and responsibility.
– Being employed gives daily meaning and context to a life
– Having a job means building a resume. Staying employed and gainful during a global pandemic will probably be noticed, admired even, by future employers.

1) There are a lot of “dead end” jobs, and with automation and IT more and more are joining total complete status.
2) There are a lot of jobs that are pointless and only time Money. Ultimately that is the economic system we have embraced.
3) Yep some potential value in that.

We have embraced a top down inhuman exploitation philosophy for the economy, where you are often a replaceable cog.

Values have changed, work ethic gone, being turned into a globalist utopia of “resident” consumers vs citizens. Economic Man.
Sad.

#3 Big Jim and the Twins on 06.18.20 at 1:23 pm

If I left the house to go to work every day I would be arrested for criminal negligence, as I would be leaving my children at home alone. Where I live school is still closed, summer camps will be closed, and day camps are few and far between.

Our governments have wildly over-reacted to a flu bug, and I am gonna take what I can get.

#4 neo on 06.18.20 at 1:25 pm

Actually ‘wuss’ is a condition, not a name. – Garth

Uh huh….Well a Great Depression is also a condition and not just a name. If this were a “recession” the bad actors would fail and the debt would be purged and reset to a stable level for continued growth. That’s not what we have here. What we have are Depression level interest rates and stimulus whose main purpose is to keep the debt party going at all costs and artificial prop assets.

It’s funny, I literally started talking about Repo market conditions several times here leading to a crash 6 months before the March 2020 crash. There were already signs of market stress you chose to ignore.

#5 Jake on 06.18.20 at 1:28 pm

The flight to the suburbs is real and growing, as coronavirus changes the way people live

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/coronavirus-update-people-flee-cities-to-live-in-suburbs.html

#6 TurnerNation on 06.18.20 at 1:30 pm

Good evening Comrades. How are you enjoying life in your UN-governed Smart City?

Today’s announcements:

1. This year’s Equality Quota is not yet met. Property taxes therefore will rise by 10 per-cent effective immediately.

2. Our Glorious Leader is pleased to announce a $666 million donation to promote Equality in the heretofore unheard of nation, Jibronistanawe

3. Today’s city renaming: Flin Flon. For sounding so silly. And that we are a Ray Cist country.

#7 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 06.18.20 at 1:31 pm

The PBO just revealed that the richest 1% in Canada have been under-reporting their wealth.

In fact, the top 1% own 25% of all Canadian wealth.

We need wealth taxes, inheritance taxes and transaction taxes, right now.

We need fairness and economic justice.

A dollar is a dollar is a dollar.

If a dollar is a dollar, why should those of wealthy people be taxed more than yours? – Garth
————————————————————

Garth, how can you say that? Capital gains and stock options are treated very preferentially, as well as inheritances and property gains.

Facts First:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-s-wealthiest-one-per-cent-hold-25-6-per-cent-of-riches-new-pbo-report-says-1.4988207

The Solution:

Tax all dollars equally. So simple.

Yet all those who are benefiting from the status quo system, always complaining about ….

“too much government red tape” (Waah, Waah, Waah!!!),

….. seem to always make it unbelievably complicated when it comes to taxes, so the rich can find loopholes and finance the high-paid accounting industry.

Just treat and tax all dollars equally. Give everyone a basic exemption to cover ordinary living costs and that’s it.

So simple. So fair. Just the right thing to do.

So the middle class will also pay wealth tax, inheritance tax and transaction taxes, plus income tax? Will returns on risked capital be taxed the same as GIC yields? Will lost risk capital be allowed as a deduction from income? What about registered accounts? Donations? Taxes are in place to encourage social and human behaviours as well as to raise government revenue. This is why dollars are not treated equally. And never will be. – Garth

#8 Fereshteh Hashemi on 06.18.20 at 1:32 pm

I understand why CERB originally had to be quick and simple, $2000 to each person. But now that we’ve had time to think and prepare, why can’t it be more nuanced? My 19 year old nephew who lives at home shouldn’t receive it whereas a family with kids needs it.

#9 Why not! on 06.18.20 at 1:38 pm

CERB should have been run by CRA. Cheques should have been the lower of your average monthly income in the previous year or $2000. Only people who filed a tax return would have received support.

#10 The West on 06.18.20 at 1:45 pm

DogBlog indeed.

How’s life comfy in that kennel?

#11 Ace Goodheart on 06.18.20 at 1:46 pm

More interesting news today (when is there not interesting news nowadays?).

Ontario has officially “provincialized” (is that a word, “nationalized” when a Province does it?) commercial properties.

Yes, that is right. If you are a commercial property owner in Ontario, you cannot evict a commercial tenant who does not pay the rent.

You have to apply to the Federal government (landlord applies, not the tenant) for government assistance for 75% of the rent. You may be accepted or refused. I don’t think they have to give reasons. You have to provide a whole lot of personal financial information. You will hear from the Feds whenever (long wait times).

Meanwhile, I believe commercial property owners still have to pay commercial property tax (which can be a whole whack of money, a friend I know up in Barrie owns a commercial property and he pays $58,000 per year in Commercial property tax, and it is just a converted house on a semi-main street with a restaurant on the main floor and offices up above).

The property tax is part of the monthly rent that the tenants pay him, so he doesn’t really see it. And if the tenants don’t pay the rent, he can just lock them out……oh, wait…..not anymore…..

He also has a commercial mortgage. Which is nothing like a residential mortgage btw. No CMHC. No fluffy puffy coddle the homeowner terms. A commercial mortgage is a term loan, with all the nasty realities of term loans. Again, the tenants pay the mortgage through their rent……oh, wait a minute…..

If you want to sell a commercial property, then you need a tenant who is paying you, or a vacant property. But you can evict a commercial tenant at any time you like, without consequence, unless they had a really good lawyer when they drafted the lease up (usually the leases favour the landlords). So of course you can just kick out the commercial tenant and sell…..oh, wait a minute…..

So the Province of Ontario now officially has all commercial properties owned by the government. Or will. Because if the commercial landlords don’t pay the massive property taxes, guess who is seizing the property for tax arrears?

This is a large blow to commercial real estate.

And it is retroactive to May 1st. So if a commercial tenant has already been kicked out, guess what? They can move back in again (without paying any rent at all).

In other news, during the Conservative Party’s first leadership debate, it becomes very clear that not a single Conservative candidate has sufficient working knowledge of French (you know, one of Canada’s two official languages) to actually engage in a debate.

On of the candidates actually read out a response to an entirely different question, in French, appearing to not even know they were not answering the right question.

Oh dear.

#12 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 1:50 pm

#156 Ace Goodheart on 06.18.20 at 12:41 pm

Well the numbers are out folks.

We officially have spent $256 billion dollars more than we have this year …..100,000 people in Canada have contracted COVID-19 since it came about in March of this year. Of that 100,000 people, about 98% of them are fine…….
…..So really, how much per COVID infection, did all of this cost?

********************
This is unfair though. The money wasn’t spent on infections, it was spent on preventing infections, so the claculation/question should be:
“How much did we spend per (serious) infection that was prevented by the measures take?”

That said, as someone who spent the initial outbreak in Vietnam, and with the power of hindsight, I think Canada made several very wrong choices.

#13 Oakville Rocks! on 06.18.20 at 1:52 pm

I have been reading this blog for too many years to count and I can’t believe it has come to this. A post explaining the non-financial benefits of having a job.

Sometime ago I joined the Conservative party and contributed money to Peter MacKay’s campaign so I would have a say in who the next leader of the official opposition is. Big mistake… constant phone calls, letters and e-mail asking for more money. I mean Jeez, there is enough griping about Trudeau & the CBC on this blog, I don”t need to hear about it when I answer the phone.

#14 Victoria Brandon on 06.18.20 at 1:54 pm

Ofcourse a politician boomer would say “ofcourse you should work for $1300, when CERB is available.”

Garth, have you participated in the bottom of the job market in the last 40 years? Its crap, they are treated poorly, nobody cares, no respect. They label them “essential” and give them a extra $2 pittance for the trouble, then claw it back again.

If employees are treated generally poorly like that across our entire society, what did you expect to get in return? Garbage in, garbage out.

#15 Dustin on 06.18.20 at 1:56 pm

Does this mean we should be re balancing to hold less Canadian equities? A nation on UBI is going to be unproductive so this will be priced into the TSX very quickly if this is announced. Maybe more global stuff? You mentioned Germany, maybe a German ETF rather than a Canadian one.

#16 Just spend, and forget about it on 06.18.20 at 1:58 pm

Re: National Contact Tracing App
Trudeau described the app as one that people can download and forget about.
Previously I wondered about his conscience, and how he sleeps at night. Now I understand his method. He forgets about the money he spends.
Just spend, and forget about it.

#17 Dustmaker on 06.18.20 at 2:05 pm

Good one Sir, thank you for your inspiration.

#18 Joseph R. on 06.18.20 at 2:05 pm

#11 Ace Goodheart on 06.18.20 at 1:46 pm
More interesting news today (when is there not interesting news nowadays?).

Ontario has officially “provincialized” (is that a word, “nationalized” when a Province does it?) commercial properties.

————————————————————–

Commercial activities, real estate, sales contracts or any other activities involving private property are regulated by provincial statutes. For your case in Ontario, they fall under the Ontario Sales of Good Act:

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90s01

it’s been so since 1867.

#19 IHCTD9 on 06.18.20 at 2:06 pm

#8 Fereshteh Hashemi on 06.18.20 at 1:32 pm

I understand why CERB originally had to be quick and simple, $2000 to each person. But now that we’ve had time to think and prepare, why can’t it be more nuanced? My 19 year old nephew who lives at home shouldn’t receive it whereas a family with kids needs it.
—- –

This is exactly what our esteemed leadership in Ottawa should be working on right now. Rather than taking this logical and necessary step, it looks like they’re just making the whole thing bigger.

#20 Buy? Curious? on 06.18.20 at 2:08 pm

I heard from a very sexy, bearded fellow, known for wearing cowboy boots and love for cannabis, whoops, I meant canines, who *ahem* said, and I’m paraphrasing, WHENEVER THE GOVERNMENT GIVES YOU MONEY, YOU TAKE IT!

Who said that? Who?!?

Bwahaha! Cha-ching 2020!

Ever wonder who the suckers in the room are? If you don’t know, it’s you!

The reference was to CPP, which is paid for my employee and employer contributions. Grow up. – Garth

#21 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 2:10 pm

#7 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 06.18.20 at 1:31 pm

All these years and you still can’t grasp the simple concept that taxing everyone equally would benefit the rich.

There are only 2 possibilities
1. You set the universal tax rate low enough so that the poor can afford it (which would be so low that the rich would rejoice in the reduction)
2. You set it high enough so that the rich pay more than they already do (which would crush the poor into starvation)

I mean go ahead and test it yourself:
Currently, income dollars earned over 200K are taxed at over 50%
Currently, income dollars under 10K are taxed at under 5%

So which should be the new universal rate? 5%? 50%? Somewhere in-between? Any answer you give benefits the well-off more than the not-so-well off.

#22 dgb on 06.18.20 at 2:12 pm

i agree with #8…I also have nieces and nephews who worked part time …$1000-$1500 per month….living at home….now on cerb because their employment has ceased due to the virus and making $2000 per month for playing video games and watching netflix courtesy of our tax $$ spendy govt…they are not in need of any of this money…I am retired and am able to live exactly as before the virus with no added cost..maybe even less as I cannot play bingo or go to the Legion..our govt has determined that I am in need somehow and give me and all of my friends extra deposits to our bank accounts…Why? To whom does this make any sense? Has the whole system of government gone crazy?? open your eyes young people!!!! this is going to destroy your futures….I will help pay it off before I die but YOU will be the ones to pay and pay and pay more…grow up!! whoever does not NEED this money should NOT apply for it…it is meant to help those in dire NEED in order to feed their families…the trudeau govt has no idea what it is doing nor what this free money debt will do to this country and honestly I don’t see that even anyone in govt cares…I did not vote for nice hair last time and he has proven in his years as pm that their is NO BRAIN underneath that nice hair!!!Jagmeet Singh has the same empty head as trudeau…vote next time for someone who will try to get this country back on it’s feet, not someone who will promise to GIVE you whatever you say you NEED…please learn something from this mess we have allowed to happen ..life is not free nor should it be…every business uptown has signs up for help wanted..wake up and pay your own way!! ….Garth I so wish we had a YOU to vote for…sincerely dgb

#23 A_Toronto on 06.18.20 at 2:14 pm

There aren’t enough jobs for all of the people that have been furloughed/laid off when people return and the gov knows this. We don’t have enough industries in Canada. Tired of people shaming people for CERB. Shame the government for the lockdown and shutting good businesses down! And why not shame the bigger corporations for taking billion dollar handouts?!?

#24 Faron on 06.18.20 at 2:19 pm

#6 TurnerNation on 06.18.20 at 1:30 pm

I’m curious, does QAnon mean anything to you TurnerNation?

#25 Joe Schmoe on 06.18.20 at 2:21 pm

Interesting perspective on work, Garth.

I am currently an executive for a successful company.I am in my mid 40s. I think a large reason I have “succeeded” is I worked a lot of crappy jobs to get ahead. My last job interview was primarily focused on the crummy lawn mowing job I had 30 years ago. Wasn’t on my resume or anything, it just came up as there is a general commonality on crap jobs we had growing up. It is experience that helps you relate to people.

Working a non-ideal job is better than nothing.

I did the math on the whole mat/pat leave thing…my wife and I both work. Financially it made sense to “lose money” for a few years with child care costs. Over a decade later, the math isn’t even close. There is tremendous value in being home with your kids, but it is not about saving money. But if it’s “free money”, most people won’t try to figure it out past that.

#26 SPACE FORCE on 06.18.20 at 2:21 pm

Seriously though, how good is Space Force!

#27 AnotherGuy on 06.18.20 at 2:23 pm

Unfortunately a lot of people don’t have the luxury of considering the moral and ethical issues with staying home and collecting CERB vs. working for less money.

For many its a simple question: “What activity pays the most right now to allow me to pay the bills and maybe create some savings?”

You also have to be more honest with yourself on the upwards mobility at a job that pays minimum wage or below CERB levels, there probably is little to no opportunity for advancement, particularly within the timeframe they expect to collect EI or CERB.

Its the “welfare trap”, a well documented economic phenomenon, and it arises from a poorly designed social benefit system.

#28 Covid-lite on 06.18.20 at 2:25 pm

First time responder, long time reader. I believe there is a need for Cerb, but my issue is the lack of a means test.
How is it fair that someone that is unemployed due to the virus yet has over a million dollars in home equity qualified to receive emergency federal dollars?
Surely if they needed to purchase a new car or other item they would use their home’s equity.
Give the money to people in need not those that feel needy!

#29 IHCTD9 on 06.18.20 at 2:30 pm

#13 Oakville Rocks! on 06.18.20 at 1:52 pm

Sometime ago I joined the Conservative party and contributed money to Peter MacKay’s campaign so I would have a say in who the next leader of the official opposition is. Big mistake… constant phone calls, letters and e-mail asking for more money. I mean Jeez, there is enough griping about Trudeau & the CBC on this blog, I don”t need to hear about it when I answer the phone.
— —

They were (are?) terrible for that. All I did was accept a sign on my front lawn – next thing you know the phone is ringing off the hook. Can they count on my support? Do I need a ride in to vote? I actually had a dude show up in person with his car in my driveway asking if I’d like a ride to the polls!

#30 Faron on 06.18.20 at 2:32 pm

Two things.

First, it just occurred to me that what has happened with sovereign debt is very much akin to a leveraged buy out wherein some sort of venture capital buys a struggling business, makes all kinds of changes to make it appear more profitable, loads it down with debt then either sells it or reaps profits until the whole thing collapses.

Crudely speaking, if the national debt of a country more or less winds up in the hands of the citizens and if the 1% holds 25% of the wealth, it seems that one could make a case that all of those debt dollars (or a vastly disproportionate amount) went to the wealthiest who then offshore the bux to avoid tax.

One thing that is certain about CERB is those dollars are getting spent. Therefore, they are not adding to the wealth of the recipient (with some exceptions I’m sure). The dollars torrent up to the concentrated wealthy, they help fuel growth in equities which benefits those here, and the rich get richer while the poor continue to hang by a thread.

And this from Garth: “Accepting a position can lead to advancement, more hours, better pay and responsibility. Sitting at home watching Space Force does not. Never will. You stay unemployed.”

The second part is true and I fully agree that a life on the dole is no life ‘tall. WFH has made it really clear to me that, although I’m a loner, I need to get out of the damn house and miss being interrupted by colleagues at work.

Unfortunately, I don’t think the first sentence applies nearly as much as it used to. The growth of the “gig” economy is an example. Many entry level jobs do not and will not lead anywhere. That fact needs to be addressed if workers are to be allowed a meaningful life.

#31 the Jaguar on 06.18.20 at 2:32 pm

” After all, eight million households are getting direct deposits of two grand a month.”- GT
Oh, it’s way worse than that. For households that lack character and morality but not human bodies the the deposits are multiple. Mom, dad, the kids, the grandparents. Mercy. They are going to milk that cash cow till the udders are dry and without a nano second of conscience or remorse.
As for the leader of the NDP ( please don’t refer to him as ‘Jag’, it gives me the willies), he is anything but authentic, especially with himself. The day of reckoning will come however, and when it does there won’t be any coming back from it despite attempts to conceal the truth by draping oneself in the ‘usual accoutrements’. Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are……or not what they are presented to be..
I wish I had a cat to brush. One I would name it Putin.
Pass the cheese doodles, please.

#32 Hugo J. on 06.18.20 at 2:35 pm

Garth, about time someone points out the obvious that working (even part time) is a better option for anyone’s self esteem rather than taking the easy way out and collecting CERB. Clearly employers will be looking at that when they hire new candidates. Why do you have to spell this out? Are Canadian this THICK that they don’t understand this?

#33 the Jaguar on 06.18.20 at 2:37 pm

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh accused the government of “criminalizing” people who collected benefits in error, and suggested the penalties will harm the most vulnerable Canadians.

‘”The government has said, ‘It’s okay, try anyways, apply in good faith, you won’t get in trouble,'” he said. “Now they’re saying you’re going to get in trouble and that’s going to impact, without a doubt, racialized people more than anyone else.”

He sure talks about race a lot.

#34 yyclurker on 06.18.20 at 2:39 pm

#9 Why Not!
Only people who filed a tax return would have received support.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CERB is an undercover vote buying tool.

#35 IGV on 06.18.20 at 2:39 pm

Garth

Any thoughts on where the top tax brackets are heading.

Like actual off the record thoughts?

#36 Give it a rest Garth on 06.18.20 at 2:41 pm

Iris, you did the right thing. Just like I am, gladly collecting my CERB, happy it will continue and living my life. Just because someone is collecting doesn’t mean their snorfling down cheetos and watching Netflix’s. I am exercising, spending quality time with my family, cooking, baking, cleaning, teaching my youngster, organizing and generally enjoying this madness while keeping my family sane, well adjusted and happy. Get a grip Garth, stop acting so self righteous, it’s so “white man privileged” of you. When the government opens up workplaces fully, and my kids are back in school, then people will return fully, but accepting menial labour to add to your resume, is just so stupid.

Did you just call me white? – Garth

#37 BillyBob on 06.18.20 at 2:43 pm

#2 dogman01 on 06.18.20 at 1:21 pm
– Accepting a position can lead to advancement, more hours, better pay and responsibility.
– Being employed gives daily meaning and context to a life
– Having a job means building a resume. Staying employed and gainful during a global pandemic will probably be noticed, admired even, by future employers.

1) There are a lot of “dead end” jobs, and with automation and IT more and more are joining total complete status.
2) There are a lot of jobs that are pointless and only time Money. Ultimately that is the economic system we have embraced.
3) Yep some potential value in that.

We have embraced a top down inhuman exploitation philosophy for the economy, where you are often a replaceable cog.

Values have changed, work ethic gone, being turned into a globalist utopia of “resident” consumers vs citizens. Economic Man.
Sad.

=================================================

Sounds like a rationalization of laziness to me. I worked a lot of “pointless dead end” jobs to get to ones that paid extremely well and I enjoyed. Now I’m in a position to kick back, relax, and watch the foolishness of the next few years easily sustained by the fruits of many years of hard work.

Or, sit at home and collect “free” money from ones masters. And complain how unfair it all is. The Iris’es of the world will never get it, they have so little self-worth they only value themselves by what they can chisel out of things for the least effort. Ugh.

#38 Piano_Man87 on 06.18.20 at 2:47 pm

I thought the original point of the lockdowns was to buy time. Everyone recognized a vaccine was 12-18 months away as of March, which was too long to cut CERB cheques. The lockdowns were supposed to give our medical system time to prepare. That’s all. Not wait out the storm.

We were all supposed to be returning to work this June – 4 months after CERB began. But people aren’t returning to work. Employers aren’t hiring. I haven’t a clue why extending CERB will change anything. It’s just more debt, more people out of work longer.

Eventually you do have to wonder what the point of billions in government debt is if we we are just prolonging the inevitable.

Sadly, more and more people are viewing government debt as simply a problem that will be fixed by someone else. Everyone is part of a big system no one wants any part of.

#39 Faron on 06.18.20 at 2:49 pm

#18 IHCTD9 on 06.18.20 at 2:06 pm

#8 Fereshteh Hashemi on 06.18.20 at 1:32 pm

This is exactly what our esteemed leadership in Ottawa should be working on right now.

I agree with these ideas. CERB or some form of stimulus *had* to be rolled out quickly and indiscriminately to keep the economy from going into total vapour lock this spring. Since then, there’s been ample time to craft more nuanced approaches, incorporate some component of work programs etc. and it’s odd to me that such has not been introduced. Here’s one example:

Make CERB somehow contingent on retraining those who work in the service industry and haven’t been able to scrape enough dollars together to go back to school either for a trade or for a degree. Likewise for slowly dying industries like the oil patch. Support the workers whose jobs may never come back so they can retrain and make Canada stronger.

I feel the same way with how elective procedures have been hobbled in the health care system and continue to be so. We are past the point of potential for huge waves of infection and ICU admissions at least until the next wave comes. It’s time to reallocate resources until there’s clear sign of the next wave which will be known through testing a couple weeks before ICU resources are needed.

And the last thing in this hodge-podge of a comment is that it appears that the lethality of this thing is dropping. I presume that is because it’s a better known entity and doctors have developed better approaches to treatment. That doesn’t mean that this spring’s response was inappropriate. We didn’t know a lick about the virus then and allowing it to spread unmitigated would have been a disaster. But, there’s hope, in my mind, for a less dire winter coming up.

Thanks for the food for thought today Garth

#40 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 2:55 pm

This just in:
Canada ranks 8th in ranking of Worlds most competitive Economies.
It moved  from 13th, leapfrogging US which fell from 3rd to 10th.

Source: Institute for Global Management based in Switzerland.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/singapore-retains-top-spot-as-worlds-most-competitive-economy

#41 db on 06.18.20 at 3:05 pm

“The case for citizenship-based taxation has been building for years, but with huge budget deficits to come, fairer taxation is all the more needed….”
https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/april-2020/canada-needs-to-start-taxing-canadians-who-live-abroad/
In case you were wondering what’s on the table to start paying for this debt mess…
Gut instinct on this one is:
a) administrative cluster [email protected]
b) far less revenue collected than predicted
c) cost to administer skyrockets
d) international accounting firms clean up as per usual on avoidance strategies
e) becomes the happy playground for clueless politicians, financial illiterates and (de)activists to play favourite blood-sport; dog-whistle politics

#42 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:10 pm

“When people get more to do nothing than take temporary, part-time or entry-level employment, what are entrepreneurs to do? Just pay more?”

Yes.

“But many cannot and stay viable.”

Too bad. To quote FDR in 1933:

“In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By “business” I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”

It’s silly to expect consumer spending to keep the economy moving when businesses have spent the last 40 years finding new and creative ways to pay consumers (their employees) less and less in wages.

Go start a business and report to us in five years, – Garth

#43 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 06.18.20 at 3:12 pm

Time for a reality check. At last election ~64% of the electorate voted for Liberals +NDP + Green which all have generally speaking a “social ” agenda . People vote with their wallets in mind first so it it is safe to say that we will have a similar result in the next election, maybe even up to 70%. If a party will not have a clearly defined UBI it will be wiped-out at the polls (well outside Alberta). Again, not a matter of “If” just a matter if “How” . So with this in mind it is quite clear that UBI will become a fact and it is just a matter of how much ,what programs will be merged with (EI, child tax benefits, OAS, provincial, welfare ) and how we will pay for it. Let’s make peace with that thought and prepare our investments as such.

#44 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 3:19 pm

#41 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:10 pm
“When people get more to do nothing than take temporary, part-time or entry-level employment, what are entrepreneurs to do? Just pay more?”
Yes.
“But many cannot and stay viable.”
Too bad.

***********************
Always the same line from you
“Pay higher wages”
and never any solutions offered as to how businesses can do it and survive.
Allowing entire industries to collapse/offshore is not a viable answer either, sorry.

#45 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 3:20 pm

#148 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 12:03 pm
#131 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 9:55 am
#110 Sail Away on 06.17.20 at 11:32 pm
#96 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.17.20 at 9:15 pm
Another civil war could be coming to the US.
What a mess.
——————-
Um, PP… Why would you say that?
————-
Just wait and see.
***************************
Seriously PP?
If you are going to make bold predictions like that and then not explain them, then what’s the point?

It’s obviously fine for you to believe what you do, but what is the point in sharing it here if not to get a response, and how can anyone respond if you won’t expand on your statement?
———————
Shorty,
Sorry to hurt your feelings. Did not know that my humble opinions had to be peer reviewed before posting.
Here’s something to chew on:
If Trump loses, he’ll probably will not go quietly.
Just looking at Florida: Gun sales have quadrupled since the shops reopened. Covid infections are spiking.
This weekend in Tulsa should give us a better indication how this all will unfold.
Looking forward to your peer review.

#46 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:26 pm

“Go start a business and report to us in five years, – Garth”

This is by far the most common response, and it’s unfortunate because it demonstrates a real failure of imagination.

If I open a widget business and I pay people $20 an hour because I’m such a nice guy, but all of my competitors are free to continue paying minimum wage, then of course I’m going to have problems.

But if minimum wage is raised to $20 an hour, that’s a completely different scenario, one where I am not at a competitive disadvantage.

Forget widgets and robotics, a freight dock and a union. Just open a typical small business – 2-3 employees – maybe a flower shop, bicycle sales or a small bakery. When you know of what you speak, we will listen. – Garth

#47 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 3:27 pm

#38 Faron on 06.18.20 at 2:49 pm

…it appears that the lethality of this thing is dropping. I presume that is because it’s a better known entity and doctors have developed better approaches to treatment. That doesn’t mean that this spring’s response was inappropriate.

——————–

It’s never been inordinately lethal, and yes, it actually does mean this spring’s response was inappropriate.

The current ongoing restrictions are also inappropriate.

Every official reaction to Covid has been, and continues to be, inappropriate.

#48 Oakville Sucks on 06.18.20 at 3:31 pm

Canada…what can I say…we’re really ******! Our political system is so messed up it’s hopeless. This isn’t the Canada I grew up in and I don’t see hope in any party to get Canada back on track.

Emigration to other countries will be the only option for many of us.

#49 Do we have all the facts on 06.18.20 at 3:33 pm

This CERB business is just plain crazy. I mean crazy!

There are 6,700,000 Canadian citizens over the age of 65 in June 2020.

The average mortality rate of citizens over the age of 65 in Canada is 46.6 deaths/1000 people/year.

Based on well established mortality rates we could have expected that 76,000 Canadians over the age of 65 to have died from all causes in the three months since the first Covid 19 death in Canada was reported.

Over this three month period health authorities have confirmed that 8,200 Canadians have died with the Covid 19 virus in their system. 7,460 deaths, or 92% of deaths where the Covid virus was detected at the time of death, involved individuals 65 years or older.

6,700 of reported Covid 19 deaths of people over the age of 65 were directly associated with a long term care facility.

What this means to an unbiased observer is that 8,200 deaths out of an anticipated total of 76,000 deaths to citizens over the age of 65 have been attributed to the
the Covid 19 virus.

I say attributed because having the Covid 19 virus in your system at the time of death does not mean that Covid 19 was actually the primary cause of all 8,200 deaths. Logic would imply that the primary cause of death for a percentage of the 8,200 deaths attributed to Covid 19 was not actually the Covid 19 virus.

Our governments were well aware of the danger posed by all viral infections to vulnerable Canadians living in long term care facilities across Canada. Year after year they continued to pinch pennies till they squeaked as the waiting lists for long term care grew longer and the quality of care deteriorated. Shame on them all!!

Now instead of improving the quality of accommodation and health care for our most vulnerable citizens, citizens that established a quality of life for all Canadians, our Federal government is doling out billions of dollars to assure that millions of Canadians do not contribute to our economic growth.

I repeat the continuation of CERB is beyond crazy!!

It is time to look at the facts and get back to work before the damage to our economy becomes irreparable.

#50 kc on 06.18.20 at 3:34 pm

27 Covid-lite on 06.18.20 at 2:25 pm

How is it fair that someone that is unemployed due to the virus yet has over a million dollars in home equity qualified to receive emergency federal dollars?
Surely if they needed to purchase a new car or other item they would use their home’s equity.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

What logic this is. use your home as an ATM caaching buy a new car…. while you are at it, may as well take a trip to Florida and buy the Wife a new rock for her pinky finger.

No wonder this country is swallowing the debt pill of insanity.

#51 cramar on 06.18.20 at 3:36 pm

I wrote about this in previous years, but it is interesting that this recent article is by the BBC, from the British perspective:

The record-breaking jet which still haunts a country

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200615-the-record-breaking-jet-which-still-haunts-a-country

Again, every article misses the point. The Arrow cancellation was the START of a slow decline of Canada as a major industrial/technological power. I blame that on the Diefenbcker government and every Federal government since. They had, and have, NO VISION for the greatness of the nation, what we could become, and how to get us there.

Cancelling the Arrow might have made SHORT-TERM sense, but considering the willingness for the government today to spend hundreds of billions on short term measures, what could have happened generations later IF the government had continued funding with the LONG-TERM GOAL of ensuring Canada would become a dominant technological nation? There were 50,000 highly-skilled world-class workers. Building momentum on the engineers and skilled workers, there would be a huge manufacturing base today and an educational system continually spawning the next generation of scientists, engineers, and skilled workers. Now six decades later, we could a nation known for high-quality engineered products sold all over the world. Like Germany is today.

This lack of vision beginning over sixty years ago means we are today a nation that has a living standard built on debt. Today we are relegated mainly to hewers of wood and drawers of oil, and nobody wants our cheap inferior sludge anyway! Our GDP consists mainly in buying stuff that someone else has made, and trading real estate amongst ourselves. There is no future in that!

Ah, what we could have become, if only.

#52 Calgary retiree on 06.18.20 at 3:48 pm

So, this conservative blog does not like stimulating a crashed economy my means of cash infusions to millions of people who, suddenly and of no fault of their own, found themselves out of employment and income. Much sanctimonious hand wringing from this blog about the probability of new taxes – and the apparent lack of ethics and morals of working Canadians.

But what would the con’s have done instead?

The answer is simple. Conservatives are tone deaf and can play only one tune: “Cut Corporate Taxes!” Here in Alberta, Premier Kenny’s first act was to significantly cut the corporate tax rate. Next, he proclaimed that Alberta had a spending – and not a revenue problem. Doubling down, Kenney slashed the fees paid to Alberta’s medical doctors, resulting in some rural areas losing their primary care providers.

We should be very grateful that conservatives are not running Ottawa.

#53 Grunt on 06.18.20 at 3:48 pm

Wasted energy railing against the one percenters. Makes no difference which system is implemented. Capitalist or communist. Monarchy or republic. The one percenters are always there. History says it.

Get on with your own life.

#54 kc on 06.18.20 at 3:50 pm

45 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:26 pm

But if minimum wage is raised to $20 an hour, that’s a completely different scenario, one where I am not at a competitive disadvantage.

XXXXXXXXXX

Just out of curiosity, do you know what your government contributions are at wage of $20 an hour?

And how much sales that equals per hour after your headroom eats your fixed costs?

please report back when your head stops spinning….. (and I am sure every province has a different tax rate)

#55 conan on 06.18.20 at 3:50 pm

I gave Space Force 3 episodes then drifted away.

The Last Kingdom is the best series that I have watched so far on Netflix. Four seasons and a fifth in production.

#56 Jean Caudinque on 06.18.20 at 3:53 pm

Garth, I agree. We should be encouraging savings, investments, business and capital formation. Capital gains and all other income should be inflation adjusted yearly.

A higher GST, HST or sales tax, consumption taxes and lower income taxes and lower taxes on capital, savings, investments, business etc.

I would say that today we already have a de facto big tax on capital, investments etc. It is called rock bottom, crashed, pushed down interest rates and understated inflation rates. When governments are paying 1% or less on their debt, bonds instead of historical 2% to 3%+ inflation, they are taxing all that capital, investments etc. by not paying 5% to 7% higher interest rates a year on all their debt, bonds.

This is saving minimum $200 to $300 billion a year in annual interest for all governments. This is without compounding taken into account which would easily double to triple that over years. Also, property taxes and other fees on homeowners, businesses, real estate higher rents etc. due to these higher taxes,fees etc. rising 8% to 12% a year way higher than the fake stated 2% annual inflation rates. This is probably tens of billions more we are paying for. Remember the $38 billion more in 8 years in hydro, electricity rates due to McGuinty, Wynee Liberals incompetence green energy projects.

The real problem is out of control, insane spending and wasteful, unsustainable government spending, taxing. This looks everyday more and more a economic hit done on purpose to destroy stronger economic countries to pay for weaker ones and encourage communism, socialism which is designed to fail.

People are going to have to learn the hard way. You can’t get blood from a stone. There is no free lunch in life.

#57 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:54 pm

#43 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 3:19 pm
Allowing entire industries to collapse/offshore is not a viable answer either, sorry.

—-

Actually, NOT allowing industries to offshore would go a long way in raising wages domestically.

And as far as solutions, I already mentioned it, raising the minimum wage to a living wage. While doing so makes labor more expensive, it is more than offset by increased consumer demand. People always whine about how minimum wage increases kill jobs, but it never actually happens. It’s a fairy tale. Made up.

#58 Yukon Elvis on 06.18.20 at 3:56 pm

#42 ElGatoNerodeYVR on 06.18.20 at 3:12 pm
Time for a reality check. At last election ~64% of the electorate voted for Liberals +NDP + Green which all have generally speaking a “social ” agenda . People vote with their wallets in mind first so it it is safe to say that we will have a similar result in the next election, maybe even up to 70%. If a party will not have a clearly defined UBI it will be wiped-out at the polls (well outside Alberta). Again, not a matter of “If” just a matter if “How” . So with this in mind it is quite clear that UBI will become a fact and it is just a matter of how much ,what programs will be merged with (EI, child tax benefits, OAS, provincial, welfare ) and how we will pay for it. Let’s make peace with that thought and prepare our investments as such.
……………………………….

Nailed it.

#59 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 3:57 pm

#46 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 3:27 pm
#38 Faron on 06.18.20 at 2:49 pm

…it appears that the lethality of this thing is dropping. I presume that is because it’s a better known entity and doctors have developed better approaches to treatment. That doesn’t mean that this spring’s response was inappropriate.

——————–

It’s never been inordinately lethal, and yes, it actually does mean this spring’s response was inappropriate.

The current ongoing restrictions are also inappropriate.

Every official reaction to Covid has been, and continues to be, inappropriate.
——————-
Sailo,
Sure glad you’re not a doctor.

#60 Faron on 06.18.20 at 3:58 pm

#43 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 3:19 pm

#41 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:10 pm

“Pay higher wages…
and never any solutions offered as to how businesses can do it and survive”

—-

Crude numbers:

For the large, publicly traded half of the business world lets look at walmart (which, BTW, pays more than minimum in the US, but still is at $12 per hour)

2.8 billion shares with a $2.16 dividend is $6.1 billion. Another $10 billion was spent on share buybacks in each of the past two years. So, $16 billion per year. Walmart has 2.2 million workers. That comes to $7300 per year per person. That’s a meaningful amount on its own. If you scale that by cost of living in the various parts of the world walmart operates in, that could be a significant wage increase. Furthermore, if the pay scale were to be made even moderately less top-heavy, that would be improved further.

In the long term, if those $7300 were invested at a 7% rate for 30 years the worker would have a 600k+ portfolio. Or, over 18 years those dollars would be enough to put a couple of kids through college and thus better the family’s chances in the long run.

There is money for wage increases. Saying otherwise is supporting the greedy and inhumane pay structures that are baked into the structure of our economy and political system but that we like to ignore because we benefit from them.

#61 Gramps on 06.18.20 at 3:59 pm

I think “Tadaa!” is just here for the drama. He certainly isn’t here to help.

#62 Marco on 06.18.20 at 4:00 pm

#47 Oakville Sucks on 06.18.20 at 3:31 pm
Canada…what can I say…we’re really ******! Our political system is so messed up it’s hopeless. This isn’t the Canada I grew up in and I don’t see hope in any party to get Canada back on track.

Emigration to other countries will be the only option for many of us.

—————————————————————-

You cannot survive in any other country. No connections, no tribe, they would actually like you to do something.
To know, something because you will not know anybody.
Merit is reserved for immigrants. Everywhere.

#63 Overheardyou on 06.18.20 at 4:01 pm

Looks like automation can’t come soon enough, for citizens and companies

#64 dogman01 on 06.18.20 at 4:01 pm

The Monopoly Game has been won already and the winners via Banks are just using debt to prolong a game they are enjoying.

I have to agree with the Inheritance tax idea, no one earned $50 Million due to their own merit, they leveraged the public infrastructure the stable market, good laws and the education system (trained employees) to do that; – Or they won the Birth Lottery and have a “Name”.

Time to mine a portion of this massive generational wealth transfer on Estates more than say $10 Million….I’d vote for that!

Oxfam had a report out RE Global Wealth and few could attribute the Wealth to merit\effort, most were rich due to Inheritance or Corruption via Government positions.

#65 mitzerboyakaQueencitykidd on 06.18.20 at 4:02 pm

thank Dog out here we dont elect
jagmeet type government anymore
It’s no longer daddy’s public-service

Thanks again Garth for facts not fear

#66 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:03 pm

#44 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 3:20 pm

Did not know that my humble opinions had to be peer reviewed before posting.

Here’s something to chew on:

If Trump loses, he’ll probably will not go quietly.
Just looking at Florida: Gun sales have quadrupled since the shops reopened. Covid infections are spiking.
This weekend in Tulsa should give us a better indication how this all will unfold.

Looking forward to your peer review.

—————-

Peer review:

Thinking that an unelected, or outvoted, US president would somehow foment an armed coup via untrained, volunteer militia groups in order to maintain power via illegal means is totally and completely off-the-wall nutty.

If unconstitutional actions happened, the might of the US Army would defend the constitution, meaning removal of Trump. It’s possible the restrained actions of police during the protests have given an incorrect idea of actual combat. The lethality of trained US military is absolutely mind-boggling- no Western protesters have the stomach for it. Life is too good here regardless of ideological differences and protesters would fold like a house of cards upon initial contact.

So, as a professional peer reviewer: I recommend your blog comment be rejected without further discussion due to lack of substance.

#67 Marco on 06.18.20 at 4:05 pm

20 bucks per hour minimum wage and UBI. Seems appropriate in nepotistic society where government job is only job with dignity.

#68 Overheardyou on 06.18.20 at 4:08 pm

#45 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:26 pm
“Go start a business and report to us in five years, – Garth”

This is by far the most common response, and it’s unfortunate because it demonstrates a real failure of imagination.

If I open a widget business and I pay people $20 an hour because I’m such a nice guy, but all of my competitors are free to continue paying minimum wage, then of course I’m going to have problems.

But if minimum wage is raised to $20 an hour, that’s a completely different scenario, one where I am not at a competitive disadvantage.

————

You need real skills to start a business, you don’t hire someone from the onset. You have to do the sales, marketing and number crunching yourself. Try getting just one sale first, by yourself.

You don’t get paid till you make a sale. Not pay someone else to do it for you and then complain about how much you paid them to make the sale. Prove your worth at your own company, when you can do that then you can consider hiring someone else to help with sales and you move on to growing the business. That’s entrepreneurship when you don’t have capital. It’s tough and not for everyone.

#69 FreeBird on 06.18.20 at 4:13 pm

#15 Just spend, and forget about it on 06.18.20 at 1:58 pm
Re: National Contact Tracing App
Trudeau described the app as one that people can download and forget about.
Previously I wondered about his conscience, and how he sleeps at night. Now I understand his method. He forgets about the money he spends.
Just spend, and forget about it.
———————-
Maybe he sleeps at night b/c it’s not his money and any future add’l cuts to freedom/liberty won’t (ever) effect him, his family, friends, peers etc. JT made a deal w/Amazon to ‘manage distribution of medical equip’ (details seemed a bit lacking) but don’t be surprised if deal incl facilitating contact tracing as in Australia (where personal data held in offshore server farms is an issue.) For many others it’s too close from marking whose infected or not and proving you’ve had vaccine to earn access to public spaces/services. In Sweden chip implants are so common people hold implant parties. Same implants use on lab/wild animals, then dogs…now us. A vaccine (being made and fast tracked by AstraZeneca (independent safety/efficacy pre testing isn’t priority?) and tracer can be done easily at same time. Be careful what you agree. We still have a right to to question govt/politicians and authorities (neither crazy or dangerous) and those who don’t are free not to. Other half and I wont engage in contact tracing while it’s still our right to choose. Only chip going into us is Dorito (or Lays).

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/interface/2020/5/8/21250744/apple-google-contact-tracing-england-germany-exposure-notification-india-privacy

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/05/07/1000961/launching-mittr-covid-tracing-tracker/amp/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/08/the-rise-of-microchipping-are-we-ready-for-technology-to-get-under-the-skin

#70 old skool on 06.18.20 at 4:14 pm

I appreciate this post! I have been with the same organization for many years and am a high-skilled worker with a good hourly wage and post-secondary education.

For years I worked earning less than minimum wage after paying for childcare for 3 kids, which about 10+ years ago was very expensive and not subsidized in BC; and, at that time the only federal payment to parents with children was a grand total of $100 per month per child through the UCCB. At that time $100 might cover 2 or almost 3 days of childcare. Not nearly enough and a lot less than the CCTB today; and, again not subsidized.

Continuing to work then, even though it may not have added up favorably since I was taking home less than minimum wage after paying for my childcare, allowed me to make ends meet as best as possible and to continue to invest in my future, career and investment in my university education. I am thankful to have a good job which allows me to provide for my kids and be a role model to my children and which helps keep Canada moving forward.

#71 binky barnes on 06.18.20 at 4:16 pm

King Justin has it all figured out–rest easy fellow blog dogs.

#72 Faron on 06.18.20 at 4:18 pm

#46 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 3:27 pm

#38 Faron on 06.18.20 at 2:49 pm

” It’s never been inordinately lethal, and yes, it actually does mean this spring’s response was inappropriate.”

How? Present the counterfactual scenario of no action and how that would have played out well. Brazil and much of Latin America may be playing out that counterfactual as I write.

“The current ongoing restrictions are also inappropriate.”

How? Agreed that no country got this perfect nor continues to have a perfect response, but the median response was and remains appropriate. You are making out like a bandit, why do you care?

“Every official reaction to Covid has been, and continues to be, inappropriate.”

In my experience, using absolutes like “every” isn’t a good tactic especially in cases where a full gamut of responses has been put in play. Read about Iceland’s handling of it and how they continue to handle it and tell me it was not suitable for the circumstances. Would you have preferred Bolsonaro’s? Is there another dimension to approaching this that I’m missing?

#73 old skool on 06.18.20 at 4:19 pm

Note: At that time $100 might cover 2 or almost 3 days of childcare – for just ONE child.

#74 Caroline on 06.18.20 at 4:22 pm

I’m another CERB recipient who got it by default after filing for EI back in late March. This morning I received this:

“We are writing to you about your Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB). The CERB has been extended by 8 weeks. The maximum amount payable is now $12,000 over 24 weeks, which equates to $2,000 a month for 6 months.
When you first applied for the CERB, you received two payments: a payment of $2,000 as well as a payment following your initial report. This $2,000 was an advance of four weeks of the CERB, which was issued in order to get money in your pocket as quickly as possible.
Because of this advance, you will not receive a payment when you complete your next report. This is equivalent to the first two-week period of the advance.
Please continue completing reports. This shows that you are eligible for all weeks of the CERB, including the four weeks of the benefit covered by the advance payment.”

Why didn’t they just not give me the additional funds then when I didn’t need it as much now? It was supposed to be EI not CERB. I don’t think combining them was a very good idea btw.

In any event, I’d love to get off this so called gravy train ($2K is poverty wages) but the pickings for a women with excellent management experience and skills in health and the charitable sector about to turn 60 appear to be slim. Any suggestions? For a decent job, I’m willing to relocate from beautiful but boring Victoria.

#75 dogman01 on 06.18.20 at 4:24 pm

#50 cramar on 06.18.20 at 3:36 pm

NORTEL
RIM – Blackberry

This needs to be repeated to every Canadian with a brain:

Fossil fuels are going to continue to increase in use in the world. So all Canada’s doing by destroying its own industry is giving those production barrels and that opportunity to countries that don’t have the ethical system, and that don’t have the human rights system and that don’t have even the production efficiency of Canada.

Canadians blocking Canadian energy to instead use Saudi Energy is NUTS.

Cramer this is more of the same – this deliberate Takedown of Canada is an ongoing Tragedy.

#76 JB on 06.18.20 at 4:26 pm

#65 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:03 pm

#44 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 3:20 pm

Did not know that my humble opinions had to be peer reviewed before posting.

Here’s something to chew on:

If Trump loses, he’ll probably will not go quietly.
Just looking at Florida: Gun sales have quadrupled since the shops reopened. Covid infections are spiking.
This weekend in Tulsa should give us a better indication how this all will unfold.

Looking forward to your peer review.

—————-

Peer review:

Thinking that an unelected, or outvoted, US president would somehow foment an armed coup via untrained, volunteer militia groups in order to maintain power via illegal means is totally and completely off-the-wall nutty.

If unconstitutional actions happened, the might of the US Army would defend the constitution, meaning removal of Trump. It’s possible the restrained actions of police during the protests have given an incorrect idea of actual combat. The lethality of trained US military is absolutely mind-boggling- no Western protesters have the stomach for it. Life is too good here regardless of ideological differences and protesters would fold like a house of cards upon initial contact.

So, as a professional peer reviewer: I recommend your blog comment be rejected without further discussion due to lack of substance
……………………………………………………………
It is not a question of Trump loses it is more of just when.

#77 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:26 pm

#51 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:54 pm

Actually, NOT allowing industries to offshore would go a long way in raising wages domestically.

And as far as solutions, I already mentioned it, raising the minimum wage to a living wage. While doing so makes labor more expensive, it is more than offset by increased consumer demand. People always whine about how minimum wage increases kill jobs, but it never actually happens. It’s a fairy tale. Made up.

—————-

Well, I’ve done wonderfully well here after arriving as a poor, barefoot immigrant 14 years ago.

The only solution needed is gumption, pal.

#78 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:29 pm

#75 JB on 06.18.20 at 4:26 pm

It is not a question of Trump loses it is more of just when.

—————–

You appear to be a person who makes statements based on hope rather than logic.

I’d recommend you avoid self-directed investing.

#79 Marco on 06.18.20 at 4:34 pm

#57 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:03 pm
================================
The last war US army won was second world war. They fought alongside with soviets. After that they only won in Grenada, where they actually battled one Cuban engineering company which was there to build new airstrip. Even then, Cubans shot down nine US aircrafts. Propaganda is alive and well, but actual truth is somewhere else. You can wage endless wars but winning is something different. But, hey that’s why Hollywood exists. US army is a business operation without imperial guts, to kill. Mc Arthur wanted to use nukes in Korea, but… Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan…. Money well spent

#80 Steven Nicolle on 06.18.20 at 4:40 pm

First of all totally agree about getting work rather than collect CERB. But here in Guelph we checked where my wife used to work as a waiter before bought out and hired hired own staff. No patio yet so not open. Place she worked before that hurried and put 5 tables outside. Busy breakfast place but patio empty. So she is looking at factory work now. The restaurant industry just died. So everyone’s situation is different. BTW unlike a lot of your readers this Covid is bad if you catch it. I know 5 people who have had it and one died. My friend had it 7 weeks and thought he was ready for body bag the first couple of days. Slept 13-14 hours a day. Most comments I read on this they worry about things that are objects. Money is transferable and does not kiss you good night. Remember what’s real and don’t worry about who is going to pay for all this. It’s not only Canada it’s everywhere debt is accumulating. Everyone appears they know the answers which is why I like reading the comments because there is literally nothing anyone can do. That’s life don’t worry.

#81 dogman01 on 06.18.20 at 4:47 pm

#65 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:03 pm – “The lethality of trained US military is absolutely mind-boggling”

I used to hold this to be accurate:

“The fact that networks of highly mobile amateurs can confound- even defeat – a professional army is the only thing that has prevented empires from completely determining the course of history. Whether that is a good thing or not depends on what amateurs you’re talking about or what empires but it does mean that you can’t predict the outcome of war simply by looking at the numbers” – Sebastian Junger

But after learning of this incident https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/battle-syria-us-russian-mercenaries-commandos-islamic-state-a8370781.html

You Sir….are correct.

#82 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:47 pm

#71 Faron on 06.18.20 at 4:18 pm

————

Sorry, couldn’t help it. Just pulling your chain for the sake of it.

#83 conan on 06.18.20 at 4:48 pm

#75 JB on 06.18.20 at 4:26 pm

It is not a question of Trump loses it is more of just when.

Biden does not believe Trump will go quietly, and the armed forces all wrote public letters to Trump:
“Don’t even think about it.”

Trump might lose everything if he is not re elected.
So he is motivated to stay, and that is dangerous.

#84 Thomas on 06.18.20 at 4:54 pm

I don’t understand why you choose to shame Iris for her decision. I was not on her the decision to shutdown everything. Maybe next time we will have a chance to vote on that kind of major decisions.

People look at their elites and try to imitiate their succes:

– ALain Bellmare Bombardier $17.5-million severance package. And that on top of 1 Billion dollars public money spent on worthless BBD stock.
– Neil Bruce SNC Lavalin 7 Million departure package.
– How about 4,5 Billion Trans Mountain unnecessay money transfer from Canadians to private pockets Kinder?

How was she shamed? – Garth

#85 Shirl Clarts on 06.18.20 at 5:00 pm

#127 the Jaguar on 06.18.20 at 9:41 am
Bravo! This person got deleted!

#112 Shirl Clarts on 06.18.20 at 12:10 am
DELETED

Weird. Care to expand on your elation, Jag!

#86 TurnerNation on 06.18.20 at 5:02 pm

#23 Faron – it’s a psyop. Has people hanging on for crumbs.
I always use links whenever possible, it’s all laid out for us there. No conjecture.
Globalist org:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a-great-reset/

(Yes elimination of private property rights is a goal, as Ace G chimed in on. Landlords – commercial and rez – have their rights stripped but obligations (taxes) in place.

#87 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 06.18.20 at 5:06 pm

#14 Dustin on 06.18.20 at 1:56 pm
Maybe more global stuff? You mentioned Germany, maybe a German ETF
—————————————————————–
Germany has an aging population due to decline soon like Japan a few years ago. Much of Europe is similar. This is not good for their stocks or their economy.

https://www.populationpyramid.net/germany/2019/

https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2019/

#88 tony on 06.18.20 at 5:10 pm

OH Please !! It’s all astonishing. And as Galen Weston found out in the last few days, you can never take back what you generously gave. Society has turned. Not for the better. these people who manipulate the Tax systems around the world to enrich themselves as much as is humanly possible. then they “donate” to various causes and universities when his name is gloriously emblazoned for all to see and bend a grateful knee to. these clerks and related staff in their supermarkets are losing a lousy $2.00 a hour because he can’t afford such generosity. Please stop pandering to this obscenely wealthy elites.

#89 tony on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm

It’s all astonishing. And as Galen Weston found out in the last few days, you can never take back what you generously gave. Society has turned. Not for the better. these people who manipulate the Tax systems around the world to enrich themselves as much as is humanly possible. then they “donate” to various causes and universities when his name is gloriously emblazoned for all to see and bend a grateful knee to. these clerks and related staff in their supermarkets are losing a lousy $2.00 a hour because he can’t afford such generosity. Please stop pandering to this obscenely wealthy elites.

#90 Retro Marxist on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm

Harper bailed out the banks back in 2008-09. Where is your outrage?

#91 Bguy1 on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm

How will she have collected 16,000$ in CERB? It is $500 per week to a max of 24 weeks.

#92 FreeBird on 06.18.20 at 5:19 pm

Local paramedic and nurse said testing on cluster groups incl homeless, shelters, areas of high drug use showed not one infection or outbreak. Ive also not heard of any outbreaks among construction sites, paramedics, police, military etc. Im not sure any of them are practising consistent social distancing and or using masks. Just an observation. Also still no clarification on stats of how many have died with or of the virus. Report at least some of the UK who are dying of the regular flu are being added to the Covid stats. Let’s hope not.

#93 whiplash on 06.18.20 at 5:19 pm

#51 Calgary retiree

Next, he (Premier Kenny) proclaimed that Alberta has a spending — and not a revenue problem.

What did the NDP government have to do in early 1993 in the province of Saskatchewan. Hint: close 52 rural hospitals, end children’s dental plan, end universal prescrition drug plan, slash funding to schools, hospitals, universities and every local government by 5 to 13%, sales tax went up from 8 to 9%, gas tax by 2 cents a litre.

This was done because the prior government had a spending problem not a revenue problem and wracked up so much debt that they were unable to meet their financial obligations (revenue) to creditors and were on the verge of going bankrupt.
Oh, you can thank the Mulroney government for helping the NDP put together a plan to get them out of this crisis until they brought down a budget. Can’t imagine the fallout internationally/domestically if this default would have materialized.
We don’t have a revenue problem we have a spending problem!!

#94 FreeBird on 06.18.20 at 5:25 pm

In prev comment I was referring to infections or outbreaks among military etc in normal base operating conditions not in long term care facilities or areas of pre existing outbreaks and where they may have been susceptible to any contagious infection.

#95 Kevin on 06.18.20 at 5:28 pm

Great insights as always, Garth. I’m a moist mill (an older one), and although I always saw myself as a centre left (socially left, but fiscally centre), this CERB thing is such a gongshow. My cousins are saying how the good the government is; I just can’t help thinking how we’re going to pay for all of this. It makes my blood boil.

On another note, I know you’re not racist at all, and would call any NDP leader a dipper, whatever their ethnicity, but unfortunately, a dipper is a pretty racist statement when applied to someone from India. It’s like calling a Chinese immigrant a ch*nk or a fob (fresh off the boat). It’s best for you not to use it.

There’s a comment in this thread about “dipper”. It’s completely my understanding too, and I’m not brown or Indian.
https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/3zzh8n/indocanadians_and_southasians_is_brown_a_racial/

Thanks Garth for all your wisdom and insight.

#96 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 5:30 pm

#61 Marco on 06.18.20 at 4:00 pm
#47 Oakville Sucks on 06.18.20 at 3:31 pm
Canada…what can I say…we’re really ******! Our political system is so messed up it’s hopeless. This isn’t the Canada I grew up in and I don’t see hope in any party to get Canada back on track.
Emigration to other countries will be the only option for many of us.
—————————————————————-
You cannot survive in any other country. No connections, no tribe, they would actually like you to do something.
To know, something because you will not know anybody.
Merit is reserved for immigrants. Everywhere
********************************************
With your attitude and mindset you’ll never survive in another country You’d need some skillset and ambition. My nephew (40 ish) and his wife moved to Houston from Calgary 3 years ago. They bought a beautiful house with a swimming pool last year for $250,000. For the last 6 months he’s been assigned to the USVI island of St Croix working on a refinery modification. He’s loving the overtime, low taxes and Caribbean snorkeling on his off time. Anything’s possible when you’re not just hanging around looking for handouts.

#97 Nick on 06.18.20 at 5:37 pm

.
My neighbour’s situation in lower Brainland:

Husband+wife+kids CERB/child payments >$5000 combined.
Basement tax free rental income (CRA loves tax basement rental evaders)= $1400

Total income sitting at home = $6400
Easily afford $1.1M home payments. When CERB end, will start work. No issue here….

Bye bye Siddall….Upa up in lower Brainland.

Nobody on CERB gets a mortgage approval. – Garth

#98 Amie on 06.18.20 at 5:40 pm

Hi Garth, I know it is tough to follow all different slangs and things that are considered derogatory in one culture vs another, so I am going to assume this is not that mainstream….”Dipper” is considered a derogatory term amongst South Asians – specifically those from India. This is a term used to mean something like ” uneducated, fresh off the boat or someone not cultured “. For example, a second generation Canadians would say that about a new immigrant to show superiority. So calling Jagmeet Singh a dipper, given he is of South Asian heritage, struck the wrong cord and can be perceived as hurtful.

Obviously not the intent. Long-standing description of NDP adherents. – Garth

#99 Headhunter on 06.18.20 at 5:40 pm

class warfare right on cue eh?

Gov’t by decree shut down the economy. July 18 still not fully open. Why do we rail against these poor souls for getting CERB? I hope all their kids get it too. You shut down my business and are making it impossible for me to reopen at a profit. “let them eat cake”

I have… no HAD! clients that are ready to jump off an over-pass as all their years of work is vanishing. Poof in 4 months. Crickets.

Listen to TurnerNation something bigger is a foot. Gov’t is NOT stupid.. if we know it.. they know it. No reason now for the lockdown.

#100 DLT INC on 06.18.20 at 5:45 pm

So my son just left to return to Calgary. Like most people in his industry, he was laid off from his job when the business closed down because of Covid 19. We talked about the competition his former employer would face when things started to get back to some sort of normal and the business could open up again. He had what I told him sounded like a lot of good ideas for what the company should do to get back in business and he should run them by his former employer. Being the main contact person to many of the businesses’ customers, my son seems to know a lot about their needs. I told him, that this might be an ideal opportunity to prove his potential value to his former employer. Not being one to sit back and simply collect free money, the first thing he did once he got back to Calgary was make an appointment with his boss to discuss some of his ideas with him. He was apparently so impressed that they are planning to figure a way to put him back on the payroll and start implementing his plans to reestablish the company’s position in the market place and forestall inroads from new competitors. I’m very proud of my son and think that he could set a good example for others to follow. In the end, I would bet he’ll be in a lot better position with the company than he was when it went down.

#101 Reximus on 06.18.20 at 5:47 pm

#54 Conan I gave Space Force 3 episodes then drifted away.

Me too. I had expectations that it would be really fun, given the subject and the cast…I mean how bad could a Steve Carrell led show be? but I was bored, fast.

#102 Raccoon with Raybies on 06.18.20 at 5:49 pm

“Being employed gives daily meaning and context to a life.”

Back in 2005, a Minister told something like this to a news host when asked what he thought of educated immigrants who were working dead-end labour jobs.

He replied” Work ennobles the human spirit. I don’t think any job is a “dead end job”.

Try working for a man-hating boss, or working on a company which discriminates against men…I’d rather die of rabies than to work in such environments!

#103 Another Deckchair on 06.18.20 at 5:57 pm

Wow! this is fun! Just sitting here on my deckchair watching the comments wing back and forth.

There are always those that do, and those that mooch.

Half of the population are below average intelligence. The whiners who come here have yet to decide which side of the line they fall… up to them.

#104 AM in MN on 06.18.20 at 6:03 pm

Not a new issue in some cases. I knew someone in the outskirts of GTA who had a pizza shop. They wanted to hire a single mum to help her get back in the workforce. They did the calculations of what she would lose by working and it came to $19/hr that they would need to pay her to balance out. She wanted $22 to compensate for the fact that she’d need to WORK!, so she stayed on benefits.

Garth, you left out the ability to borrow or re-finance. Much harder when you’re not working compared to when you are, even at the same take home pay the banks score it differently.

#105 Long-Time Lurker on 06.18.20 at 6:08 pm

Alaska’s universal basic income problem

Alaska gives each resident a check every year. It’s cut poverty — and warped the state’s politics.

By Robyn Sundlee Sep 5, 2019, 8:00am EDT

What if we just give people money?

This is the question propelling several new books and that’s been taken up by more than one presidential candidate — foremost Andrew Yang, who has made universal basic income (UBI) the centerpiece of his campaign. An automated future looms on the horizon, and tech magnates and policy wonks are turning to UBI as a neat solution to the messy problem of technology-induced unemployment.

Yet when one considers the political ramifications of the largest and longest-running UBI experiment in America — Alaska’s Permanent Fund Dividend (PFD) — giving out cash appears to create unforeseen problems, and advocates for basic income would do well to incorporate Alaska’s latest experience into their conceptions of the policy.

Since 1982, Alaska has been giving every woman, man, and child an annual chunk of its nest egg: the $66.3 billion Permanent Fund. Alaska deposits at least 25 percent of mineral royalties — revenue the state generates from its mines, oil, and gas reserves — into the fund annually. The money is in turn invested by the Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation in domestic and global stock, bonds, private equity, and more, and interest earnings are then distributed to Alaska residents every September…

…For decades, Hammond’s system was an unprecedented success. But in 2015, plunging oil prices created major shortfalls in the state’s budget. In response, then-Gov. Bill Walker deviated from the traditional PFD formula and reduced the value of the check for 2016. Doing so allowed the government to continue funding state services and ensured the sustainability of the fund. Instead of a check for $2,052, as they would have received with the traditional formula, Alaskans that year got a comparatively paltry $1,022.

In 2018, Republican state Sen. Mike Dunleavy saw an opportunity. Despite traditional Republican aversions to handouts, Dunleavy ran for governor on the campaign platform of increasing the PFD. He promised every resident up to $6,700, to make up for Walker’s cuts in 2016 and 2017 — though he was foggy on how the state could pay.

The result? Dunleavy won by a landslide.

The problem is that he now finds himself unable to fulfill his campaign promise without major cuts elsewhere. He’s now seeking to jettison other state commitments to health care, education, infrastructure, and other vital areas. After initially vetoing $444 million from the state budget, Dunleavy responded to the threat of a recall vote and walked back some of his more extreme line-item cuts. Still, the state will see no funding for public broadcasting, a 31 percent cut to its critical ferry system, $130 million from Medicaid, and $70 million from the University of Alaska system.

The PFD allowed Dunleavy to turn the governor’s race into a single-issue vote: Do you want a bigger check or not? The events in Alaska show that a UBI policy can have a dramatic effect on an economy — but it can also overwhelm all other governmental concerns and dominate politics….

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/9/5/20849020/alaska-permanent-fund-universal-basic-income

#106 Reximus on 06.18.20 at 6:09 pm

#82 conan

Sorry but I disagree, Trump knows he will likely lose. He doesnt like it but he’ll lose. He assumed he could lose in ’16 and already had set the groundwork for a post-election media enterprise.

What he’s doing is securing a 50 million strong post-loss army of nuts that he can manipulate with his own OANN type media empire…(that’s the only reason I can imagine why OANN got press credentials at the WH.

All the twitter nods to these diehard nuts, including the weirdos in the Q movement will ensure they follow him and buy his crap.

#107 Jeremy on 06.18.20 at 6:16 pm

Well put Garth, you make an excellent case as to why one should seek gainful employment vs staying on the dole.

#108 SW on 06.18.20 at 6:17 pm

I’m not a Conservative, but I want an effective and responsible opposition.

It’s a bit rich for people to complain about the federal conservatives trying to get the vote out or raise money for their cause. How is anything going to change if they have no money and not enough votes?

The candidates for leader: What a shame that Maxime turned out to be a dolt. Now they’re going to lose in Quebec.

As for Iris; do what your gut tells you is right. I’ve even worked for no money if I thought it was right.

#109 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 6:19 pm

#89 Retro Marxist on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm
Harper bailed out the banks back in 2008-09. Where is your outrage?
********************************************
Canada came into the 08/09 crisis with healthiest G7 economy and came out of it with the healthiest G7 economy (thx SH). This time? Exact opposite (thx JT)

#110 Another Deckchair on 06.18.20 at 6:25 pm

@67 Overheard

“That’s entrepreneurship when you don’t have capital. It’s tough and not for everyone.”

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

I’m into my 3rd company. What about you?

#111 BC Doc on 06.18.20 at 6:29 pm

Hi Garth,
One of my kids is much like Iris.
She was laid off of her minimum wage food service job with very short notice due to Covid.
She was earning somewhere between $1-2,000 per month.
After three cycles of receiving the CERB payment ($6,000 total), her employer called inviting her back to work.
You know the math— she could have banked more declining and staying home.
She did the right thing (of course) and went back to work with no discussion or second thought.
Her employer is a newly opened small business that I can only imagine has really struggled with staying solvent.
I am proud of my daughter for doing the right thing.

BC Doc

#112 Another Toronto on 06.18.20 at 6:38 pm

Sure, because Iris working 20 years @ $30k/year has obviously allowed her the advancement you speak of. Why shouldn’t she be grateful she’s offered the massive salary of $1300/month?

Perhaps we should start by paying people a living wage, and then see which option they pick.

#113 Manitoba Whale on 06.18.20 at 6:39 pm

#63 dogman01
I have to agree with the Inheritance tax idea… Time to mine a portion of this massive generational wealth transfer on Estates more than say $10 Million….I’d vote for that!

******
Ok I’ll up the ante.
How about we have a Spendthrift Tax, just for those people who chose to buy everything and save little and then pass away.
Let’s do a means test on those who wasted the opportunities that could have been theirs. For those who squandered their wealth on trinkets, tats, that top model carS they leased Over and over; the celebrity suggested purchase; or whatever depreciated asset that they ‘had to have’. For those who bitched always but risked little.
Let’s set the bar for the Spendthrift Tax for only those who exceeded $ 50000.00 of income for the past five years.
I think that is only fair. Time to mine a portion of the massive opportunities wasted by the spendthrifts.

Or just raise the HST to 15%….

#114 Shirl Clarts on 06.18.20 at 6:42 pm

#88 tony on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm

Re: Galen Weston.

So, they are ending the Hero pay, but also offering an additional one-time bonus in July.

The union, Unifor, says it should never end! Aaah Unions. What are they good for. But I digress.

We should thank the Weston’s not only for their generosity, but for their brilliance. Pure genius, keeping their labour force intact. You think it was hard finding toilet paper. Well imagine if Superstore had closed its doors.

But Tony, here is some diddling you missed. Galen says he’s a “strong believer in a progressive minimum wage,” adding he would support “any government-led effort to establish a living wage.”

This is where I take issue – using their behemoth market dominance in an attempt to crush competitors, especially smaller ones? Don’t allow it.

#115 yvr_lurker on 06.18.20 at 6:46 pm

We are fortunate in our family to still have jobs in all of this mess, and am working harder than ever having to learn new IT technologies to keep it going online. Large upgrade in skills in this area, and have no problem paying all I need to pay on time. My childhood friend is a 787 pilot with Emirates. Not a good profession to be in at the moment.

Problem with CERB I think is that some provinces are doing so much better and probably could open up safely and thereby cut down the benefits for this group. Other provinces are not in this situation. With it being funded federally, rather than provincially, there is no way to make this distinction.

#116 Reality is stark on 06.18.20 at 6:47 pm

Hopefully the closure of Ford Oakville happens sooner rather than later.
It’s just another big bad company and morally contempt Canadians don’t like these mean corporations.
This socialist stutopia SJW Venezuelan dump we call a country can exist purely on public corporations.
Get them drunk on CERB.
Let our version of Chavez run the place into the ground.
We don’t need accountability.

#117 Stone on 06.18.20 at 6:47 pm

Being employed gives daily meaning and context to a life. ‘And what do you do?’ is a universal question. ‘I brush the cat’, is a bad answer. There is a sense of dignity and self-worth that comes when you are paid and have a task. No pogey payment can provide that.

———

Really? That’s a pretty sad statement. Garth, you mentioned you made your first million at the tender age of 30 when a million dollars actually was worth something. Apparently, you made the money but remained poor.

A wealthy person does not ask, “What do you do?”. They ask “How do you do?”.

Asking someone what they do is rude. It’s the equivalent of asking them what part of the cog they are in a wheel. How debasing.

I don’t understand why you’re so focused on what someone else should think about you and your place in the world. Dogs don’t do that. Shouldn’t we strive to be a bit more like them? As for cats, if you ever tried passing judgement on them, they’d scratch your eyes out. Apparently, they’ve figured out something important that others have not.

#118 Protester Work Ethic on 06.18.20 at 6:48 pm

“There is a sense of dignity and self-worth that comes when you are paid and have a task.”

Is this 1800s England? “Arbeit macht frei”? Many working stiffs hate their jobs because crap managers and owners treat them as disposable trash. “Job creators” demand utter loyalty and devotion right up until the inevitably use some recent market disruption to hand out a pile of pink slips.

YES! There are many good employers and small business entrepreneurs that are generous, and treat their employees as family. Honestly, they are the only reason the entire system hasn’t started unravelling sooner. But they are now the EXCEPTION. I deeply wish more were like them, but they will only find it harder to compete against the flotsam we’re ordered to cling to just to avoid drowning.

“Staying employed and gainful during a global pandemic will probably be noticed, admired even, by future employers.”

This is half true. Noticed, definitely. Admired? HAHAHAHA. It’s definitely in her own interest to continue working and not collect CERB, but this “attitude” she has in feeling she deserves more has arose from decades of stagnating wages despite some of the greatest expansion of wealth in history. It’s especially sickening when the public found the cupboards were bare when corps have been long been bragging about their growth and all the value they’ve given to shareholders.

I really don’t want communism, but the deluded idea that the current worker/employer relationship is in any way “healthy” will make it inevitable.

#119 Cheese on 06.18.20 at 6:51 pm

I’ve been working 4 hours a day, for $18/hr cleaning a covid ward as a janitor for 2 months. Now cleaning at a hospital as a sub contractor, still $18. I can barely live on my wage and do not get CERB, seeing the part time workers getting CERB and blowing it on wasteful things that arent food boils my blood.

Some days, it feels like its too hard to keep going :(

#120 S on 06.18.20 at 6:53 pm

Mr. Singh is slowly becoming a liability for the very demographic he claims to represent: visible minorities and immigrants. By attacking one of the most revered Canadian institutions, in this case the RCMP, which he accuses of “systemic racism” – whatever that really means – he is irritating an entire gamut of Canadians who may turn their sentiment against those for whom he pretends to speak. RCMP is one of World’s most renowned and respected police forces. Highly regarded abroad. Is it perfect? No, but painting the entire force with a racist paint brush is unfair and does huge injustice to most of its members. It is almost surreal that the only MP who stood up to Mr. Singh’s declaration is from the Bloc, party devoted to the eventual break up of Canada. Shame on the others who kowtow to these extremist forces. How many cops died in this country in the line of duty in the last five years?

#121 Billy Boy on 06.18.20 at 7:02 pm

BOO HOO…

The government set the tables for company buybacks making investors rich on hardly any risk and now we CRY like a baby because the phlebs get peanuts on CREB..

That’s really RICH….

Good for some but not the others huh?

SAME AS IT EVER WAS….

#122 Paddy on 06.18.20 at 7:03 pm

Great post Gartho. Good job showing the finer points of getting back to work instead of collecting CERB. The other two big points to remember when you’re collecting pogey is A)you get little to no contribution room towards one’s RRSP and B) it affects your entitlement to CPP down the road because you’re not earning employment income….please correct me if I’m wrong.
Cheers

#123 Michael in-north-york on 06.18.20 at 7:04 pm

At the personal level, working and building up your skills is better than sustaining on any kind of welfare.

But at the policy level, tapping off the CERB too early would create more problems than it would solve. And that includes the risk of a second wave, as many people would work illegally in order to make the ends met.

It doesn’t even matter if Jagmeet was pushing T2. Had Mr. Sheer won T2’s job last time, he would be basically taking same actions as T2, with minor changes.

Going forward – yes, CERB needs to end within a few months, and preferably before the winter as it would be hard to end during the winter. UBI is not an option at this time. An attempt to institute UBI would result in a fiscal collapse within a few years, probably before the end of T2’s next term if he gets the next term.

#124 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 7:10 pm

#14 Dustin on 06.18.20 at 1:56 pm
Maybe more global stuff? You mentioned Germany, maybe a German ETF
—————————————————————–
Germany has an aging population due to decline soon like Japan a few years ago. Much of Europe is similar. This is not good for their stocks or their economy.

https://www.populationpyramid.net/germany/2019/

https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2019/
————–
The whole Western World is aging.
The future is in Africa.
Chinese know that and they invest accordingly.

#125 Wrk.dover on 06.18.20 at 7:11 pm

same band/album as earlier today; ‘She Wants Money’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBdmDe1My_M

#126 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 7:18 pm

#47 Oakville Sucks on 06.18.20 at 3:31 pm
Canada…what can I say…we’re really ******! Our political system is so messed up it’s hopeless. This isn’t the Canada I grew up in and I don’t see hope in any party to get Canada back on track.

Emigration to other countries will be the only option for many of us.
——————
Speak for yourself.
For you I suggest Brazil.
Gravediggers are in high demand right now.

#127 BillyBob on 06.18.20 at 7:20 pm

Finally, some happy, happy news. A small triumph over kowtowing to the supremely corrupt club of dictators and thugs.

No UN security council seat for Trudeau. He’ll have to find another group to bribe with endless amounts of Canadian taxpayer money.

Oh, wait…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/18/canada-loses-bid-un-security-council-seat-justin-trudeau

#128 Nonplused on 06.18.20 at 7:26 pm

DELETED

#129 TurnerNation on 06.18.20 at 7:29 pm

This weblog covered it years ago when the Anti-1% crowd camped out in Bandit’s downtown Toronto toilet area.
The future in Kanada will hold similar; crowds of CERBians enraged and engulfed in their Free Speech Zones and Distancing Circles chanting their leader’s cry: “The rich can pay just a little bit more”. The din will echo up and down the hollow streetscapes of boarded up small businesses.
If a lee falls does it make a sound?

#130 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 7:31 pm

Just saw Adrian Dix on TV speaking fluent French (at least for my German ears).
he’s doing a super job as Health Minister in these tough times.
Could he be a replacement for the JAG?

#131 Cici on 06.18.20 at 7:37 pm

#9 Why Not

Indees, that’s the most logical thing I’ve heard all day!

#132 Vancouverhealthcaregal on 06.18.20 at 7:38 pm

How about 4-day work weeks for gov to save money? I bet many would go for it.

https://nationalpost.com/news/rural-n-s-municipality-may-be-first-in-canada-to-opt-for-four-day-work-week/wcm/9b31532a-d791-48c4-987c-3a7665eda3da/

#133 Flop... on 06.18.20 at 7:40 pm

Garth will probably send the two guys in black suits over to confiscate my iPad after this one, but I will risk it for the bugs on the blog.

At least he wont be able to call me a wuss…

M45BC

This Chart Shows Over 100 Years of Gold and Silver Prices.

“A lot of investors are looking at the stock market and wondering how it could possibly be so high right now. Unemployment is at levels last seen in the Great Depression. The U.S. is facing historic civic unrest and protests. There’s an uncertain national election in 6 months. And a feared second wave of the coronavirus is still on the horizon. All these events are making people rethink their position on precious metals, and our latest visualization can provide a needed long-term perspective on financial history.”

The gold/silver spot ratio reached a record high of 132.4 in 1933 during the Great Depression.

The same ratio collapsed to as low as 17.9 before President Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard in 1971.

The introduction of the American Eagle Gold and Silver Coins allowed investors to buy the precious metals directly, keeping the gold/silver ratio at elevated levels.

The gold/silver ratio is approaching an all-time record high in the COVID economy, most recently topping out 91.5.

Top 5 Highest Years for the Silver/Gold Spot Ratio

1941 – 101.4
1939 – 100
2020 – 99.3
1940 – 98.6
1990 – 93.2

Top 5 Lowest Years for Silver/Gold Spot Ratio

1967 – 15.4
1919 – 15.7
1862 – 16
1872 – 16.3
1874 – 16.6

https://howmuch.net/articles/gold-silver-ratio-timeline

#134 willworkforpickles on 06.18.20 at 7:42 pm

“Nobody on CERB gets a mortgage approval. – Garth”
Said it before and will say it again…About 3 months back I posted here that an estimated 85% of potential buyers that existed before the CERB charity program got underway have disqualified themselves from gaining a mortgage by collecting CERB. I lost the link covering that topic (it was 3 months ago) but nonetheless the pool of qualified buyers is greatly diminished. When the mini buying frenzy going on soon ends after the tiny pool of greatest still qualified fools runs dry, the bubble will burst for those owning too much real estate who remain jobless. The – it can’t happen to me…not to me it can – crowd of even greater delusional fools in denial will hang on until its too late and the fallout/panic this way cometh ensues.

#135 Shirl Clarts on 06.18.20 at 7:46 pm

#108 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 6:19 pm
#89 Retro Marxist on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm
Harper bailed out the banks back in 2008-09. Where is your outrage?
********************************************
Canada came into the 08/09 crisis with healthiest G7 economy and came out of it with the healthiest G7 economy (thx SH). This time? Exact opposite (thx JT)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Premature, Don. We won’t know until GDP is calculated for a full year, not in the middle of the pandemic. Too many swings Q to Q.

We all agree – the spending is off the charts. Everyone should be concerned. I am. But we don’t know how much Harper would have spent. Probably about as much.

I liked this fact check article – It found “Some baloney” in Sheer’s statement. In the House of Commons??? Never!

https://globalnews.ca/news/6515474/canada-economic-growth-g7/

For 2019, the third-quarter numbers Scheer used as the foundation for his comment do put Canada below three other nations in the G7. But one quarter earlier, Canada’s growth was tops in the G7.

#136 Pete from St. Cesaire on 06.18.20 at 7:48 pm

Working means human contact and interaction with others (even with social distancing).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, I would think that for many people the idea of ‘social distancing/face masks/Plexiglas/etc etc’ would be a huge impetus to stay home. Who wants to live in that world? Who wants that to be their memory of their time on earth? I applaud people for rejecting the “new normal” that is being forced upon us. If people can’t have a good life, what reason do they have to work hard? Just like under communism/socialism, why work hard when life sucks anyway? If they want people to go back to work, let them have a life worth living. Ditch the distancing rules.

#137 Headhunter on 06.18.20 at 7:54 pm

#105 Reximus on 06.18.20 at 6:09 pm
#82 conan

Sorry but I disagree, Trump knows he will likely lose. He doesnt like it but he’ll lose

———————————
Lockdown getting to ya much? Town of about 1.3 million.. 1 million want tickets to hear him speak.. Biden cant fill a high school gym. Its over.. I bet ya its 80%/20% for Trump.. defund the police just pushed him to a certain win BOOK IT they know it hence the BS continues

Silent majority.. same as last time but not as silent

#138 Flop... on 06.18.20 at 7:54 pm

Ponzi
Just saw Adrian Dix on TV speaking fluent French (at least for my German ears).
he’s doing a super job as Health Minister in these tough times.
Could he be a replacement for the JAG?

//////////////////

Ponzi, we already have a guy in charge that some people call Dix…

M45BC

#139 Bezengy on 06.18.20 at 7:55 pm

Jagmeet doesn’t respect conservatives. I won’t be taking advice from this prejudicial, judgemental, intolerant man.

#140 rand on 06.18.20 at 8:03 pm

@#108 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 6:19 pm
#89 Retro Marxist on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm
Harper bailed out the banks back in 2008-09. Where is your outrage?
********************************************
Canada came into the 08/09 crisis with healthiest G7 economy and came out of it with the healthiest G7 economy (thx SH). This time? Exact opposite (thx JT)

_________________________

apples and oranges argument

#141 Island Girl on 06.18.20 at 8:07 pm

Can we talk about the CTB that showed up in our bank account, unasked for? I was surprised when I saw on my bank statement a $305 dollar deposit from Canada. I dug into my e-account and discovered that due to CV-19 the feds had decided we qualified for CTB. Using our 2018 gross income of $230K, they determined that our household needed $305 for our two children. I never asked for this and I don’t want it.

Households like ours don’t need this money and shouldn’t get it. How many thousands of families making the same as us +/- $50K or more are getting money they don’t need, that we all (well actually, 60% of us) have to pay back?!? How many thousands of families who could really use an extra $305 and are not getting it? When will this madness stop?

#142 Paul on 06.18.20 at 8:13 pm

#108 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 6:19 pm
#89 Retro Marxist on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm
Harper bailed out the banks back in 2008-09. Where is your outrage?
********************************************
Canada came into the 08/09 crisis with healthiest G7 economy and came out of it with the healthiest G7 economy (thx SH). This time? Exact opposite (thx JT)
————————————————————————————————
Yes we powered through, God Bless America,lol

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/newsroom/updates/study-reveals-secret-canadian-bank-bailout

#143 Nonplused on 06.18.20 at 8:14 pm

#7 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 06.18.20 at 1:31 pm
The PBO just revealed that the richest 1% in Canada have been under-reporting their wealth.

In fact, the top 1% own 25% of all Canadian wealth.

We need wealth taxes, inheritance taxes and transaction taxes, right now.

We need fairness and economic justice.

A dollar is a dollar is a dollar.

If a dollar is a dollar, why should those of wealthy people be taxed more than yours? – Garth

————————

A dollar is a dollar, but it also isn’t real any more so than an inch or an ounce.

The reason wealth taxes don’t and can’t work is because owning say a factory or a popular website, can be measured in dollars the same way it could be measured in inches and ounces for those attribute, but the factory is not dollars. It is a lump of bricks and steel. The only way to pay taxes on that lump of bricks and steel is to raise the cost of your products and generate cash, assuming the market will bear it.

The rich do not have their “wealth” sitting in a huge swimming pool full of gold coins that they swim around in like Scrooge McDuck. Gates has all his notional wealth in Microsoft. Bezos in Amazon. How do you tax that? Gates and Bezos would have to sell shares to come up with the cash. But sell to whom? Remember all the rich are going to be selling at the same time. We would soon find out that all this so called wealth is notional and it doesn’t really represent anything more than how valuable a factory is compared to a car or an apple. That is why income and consumption taxes (like the HST) are the way to go. There is an actual transaction involving cash in those cases and the price is agreed by those transacting rather than being made up on the margin by a bunch of Robinhood traders.

Capital gains taxes are a wealth tax but at least you have an agreed upon price and somebody got paid a bunch of cash from which they could pay taxes. However, capital goes where it is treated best so increasing capital gains too much just means a scarcity of capital for Canada. It’ll all go offshore. Without capital investment you cannot create jobs, so everybody loses.

The only proper place to tax is consumption (which income tax mostly is). Taxing wealth doesn’t work because most forms of wealth are not money. They are merely a notional representation of what a thing is worth compared to other things.

Wealth taxes are problematic because nobody knows what something is worth until it is sold, and the money can’t be generated to pay the tax until it is sold.

Also, what is “wealth”? If I have to pay a “wealth tax” on my new A8, what about your Corolla? Certainly your Corolla improves your life experience almost as much as my A8 as compared to having no car, so why should I pay more tax than I already have through the HST than you do? So why wouldn’t we put a flat “wealth tax” on all cars? You are getting the same lifestyle upgrade (sans all the chicks and speeding tickets) as I am.

As my friend’s dad used to say, the only difference between the rich and everyone else in Canada is that the rich smoke more expensive cigars, drink more expensive scotch, and date younger women. We all have a car. Or as my dad used to say, Canada is a place where the poor drive to the protest rallies.

#144 Nonplused on 06.18.20 at 8:16 pm

#127 Nonplused on 06.18.20 at 7:26 pm
DELETED

Ok I’ve got to know what I possibly said in that one that caused a delete. Other than a mildly disparaging reference to the prime minister it was all economics.

Mocking a leader’s proper name = a delete. You are too articulate and intelligent for that adolescent behaviour. – Garth

#145 Flop... on 06.18.20 at 8:29 pm

Shut it down crowd wins again.

Just saw they are shutting Peace Arch International Park due to it being too popular at the moment.

Come on guys, how would you feel if that was your only way to see a loved one face to face?

I’d be spitting chips.

Get bloody innovative, just don’t surround everything with caution tape.

A lot of things now you have to book appointments.

Why not have families book time at the park to see each other?

Not perfect, but better than nothing.

Put the caution tape away, and get creative…

M45BC

#146 Faron on 06.18.20 at 8:31 pm

#136 Headhunter on 06.18.20 at 7:54 pm

“Town of about 1.3 million.. 1 million want tickets to hear him speak..”

Ha ha. Maybe with this wild thing called the internet, some non-Tulsans registered for tickets? Or maybe this prez, who seems happy to lie about almost anything, just inflated the number?

Regardless, the collective IQ of Tulsa will be taking a brief dip over the next few days as Trump supporters flood in and non-supporters run for their sanity.

I can’t wait to read the transcript of his speech. Pocket dictionary meets Vitamix blender. Bigly.

#147 trumptards on 06.18.20 at 8:35 pm

cerb extension should’ve been for those who had a 2019 income above 10k.
ppl who earned $5-9,999. already banked 8k, more than 2019 income.

#148 Dolce Vita on 06.18.20 at 8:36 pm

Gov Canada has to rethink CERB, poster child for the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Rescue financially those losing jobs because of a Gov lockdown ends up encouraging them not to take a job because it will not pay as much.

That is some kind of messed up.

————————-

More bad news from StatCan today:

Wholesale sales plummeted an unprecedented 21.6% to $49.8 billion in April, the lowest level since July 2013.

So that got rolled back 7 years.

Everyone likes calculating Gov Debt to GDP %’s forgetting that the DENOMINATOR is slowly shrinking into OBLIVION on a daily basis.

Today Wholesale down 21.3%, yesterday Manufacturing down by 28.5% and Household net worth declined 3.8% in the first quarter…

When does this all end?

#149 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 8:44 pm

#56 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:54 pm
#43 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 3:19 pm
Allowing entire industries to collapse/offshore is not a viable answer either, sorry.

—-

Actually, NOT allowing industries to offshore would go a long way in raising wages domestically.

And as far as solutions, I already mentioned it, raising the minimum wage to a living wage. While doing so makes labor more expensive, it is more than offset by increased consumer demand.
***********************
So massive tariffs which is what “not allowing offshoring” means, and increasing the min wage.

I still don’t see (and you aren’t even looking) how raising the min wage will allow small businesses to survive. Sure, some will see an increase in demand that will allow an increase in prices to offset increased wages but what if your customer base isn’t minimum wage workers? What if paying your workers more doesn’t magically increase their production?

Forget about the small businesses you want to kill that employ half of Canadians though and let’s just look at what really happens with your “wages = demand” theory:

1. The government Mandates that SunShowers’ wages be increased.
2. SunShowers now has more money to spend on stuff.
3. Stores can afford those increased wages because SunShowers demand allowed them to raise prices.
4. Due to those raised prices SunShowers now has the exact same buying power as before.

This is what would happen. How do I know? Well, we raised the minimum wage by 50% over 5 years and today you’re saying it should be 100%(at least)

Ask Stan Brooks how inflation has been on things that represent the majority of min wage workers’ expenses.

#150 Robert Ash on 06.18.20 at 8:45 pm

I can attest to this statement, in my experience as a Small Business person, in Canada. I often hired Casual Day Laborers from The Bissel Center. Many folks, with different ideas, and backgrounds, and I can tell you many stories of how a good days, work, is really uplifting for the vast majority of people. I was a small business – renos, and worked shoulder to shoulder with these folks…. Lunch time or breaktime… we get to relax and swap some life stories… This trend to Socialism, is dangerous and self defeating. A person, needs direction, volunteering is popular for Seniors for a reason… Every since the jobs, for quite young folks, like Paper boys, etc. have been eliminated, our society is taking a few steps, backward. We will be sold eventually to Asians, with better work commitment habits… Sad to encourage this type of behavior!

#151 Do we have all the facts on 06.18.20 at 8:47 pm

2,200,000 Canadians tested for Covid 19 and the virus was detected in 100,000 Canadians. On the surface this would indicate that Covid 19 has infected 4.5 % of the population tested.

On analysis however the majority of the 2,200,000 people tested presented with symptoms prior to the tests or were living in situation that placed them at risk.

As I have stated several times since the first Covid 19 death was reported in Canada the decision to record all deaths where the Covid 19 virus was present as a Covid 19 death was extremely delusory.

If the Covid 19 virus had never existed 76,000 Canadians over the age of 65 would have died over the past three months. Does it not seem probable that the primary cause of death for a significant percentage of the 7,460 people over the age of 65 who died with the Covid 19 virus in their system was something other than Covid 19.

Test for a corona virus and you are bound to find a corona virus somewhere. Test three or four hundred thousand residents of long term care facilities across Canada and there is little doubt that the Covid 19 virus will be detected in a significant percentage of those tested.

Shutting down major components of our economy and spending $70 billion or more as compensation for the unemployment the shutdown generated cannot be justified by an examination of actual mortality caused by the Covid 19 virus.

Even if every one of the 7,400 deaths of Canadians over the age of 65 that was attributed to the Covid 19 virus was actually caused by the virus it would barely move the
historical mortality rate of this component of our population of 46.6 deaths/1000/year.

It is time to get our economy back on track. The “better to be safe than sorry crew” must now take a backseat to those who truly care about the future of our country.

#152 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 8:50 pm

#59 Faron on 06.18.20 at 3:58 pm
#43 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 3:19 pm
#41 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:10 pm
“Pay higher wages…
and never any solutions offered as to how businesses can do it and survive”
—-

Crude numbers:
For the large, publicly-traded half of the business world lets look at walmart….

*************************
Do you want the world run by 10-15 mega-corps with zero small businesses like in every dystopian future movie?
——————————–

In the long term, if those $7300 were invested at a 7% rate for 30 years the worker would have a 600k+ portfolio. Or, over 18 years those dollars would be enough to put a couple of kids through college and thus better the family’s chances in the long run.

*****************************
You can either have 7% returns or force companies to profit share, not both.

#153 I'm Alright Jack on 06.18.20 at 8:53 pm

Hey, I’d rather be at home combing a cat’s fur than chasing a canine around the block waiting for a warm soft present to pick up (gross). Seriously, even a dog must wonder what the heck its ‘master’ is doing – I just got rid of that.

Sorry, just covering somewhat for Felix, who appears to be napping.

#154 Blue Angel on 06.18.20 at 8:54 pm

I am going to found a new political party for the next federal election. My one and only promise, to give 5000 $ / month to each Canadian from 1 to 99 years and this for life … the Modern Canadian Party…MCP

#155 Vancouver on 06.18.20 at 8:54 pm

#21 dgb and Garth
So agree with everything you said, but it seems that Justin Singh has different plans… Someone please stop them!

#156 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 8:56 pm

#44 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 3:20 pm
#148 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 12:03 pm
#131 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.18.20 at 9:55 am
#110 Sail Away on 06.17.20 at 11:32 pm
#96 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.17.20 at 9:15 pm
Another civil war could be coming to the US.
What a mess.
——————-
Um, PP… Why would you say that?
————-
Just wait and see.
***************************
Seriously PP?
If you are going to make bold predictions like that and then not explain them, then what’s the point?

It’s obviously fine for you to believe what you do, but what is the point in sharing it here if not to get a response, and how can anyone respond if you won’t expand on your statement?
———————
Shorty,
Sorry to hurt your feelings. Did not know that my humble opinions had to be peer reviewed before posting.
Here’s something to chew on:
If Trump loses, he’ll probably will not go quietly.
Just looking at Florida: Gun sales have quadrupled since the shops reopened. Covid infections are spiking.
This weekend in Tulsa should give us a better indication how this all will unfold.
Looking forward to your peer review.
****************************
1. Don’t be an idiot. Of course your opinions will be peer-reviewed after you post them on a public forum, that’s how it works.
2. It didn’t hurt my feelings when you wasted my time with your childish
“Hey guys [something big] is gonna happen!”
-What/why?
“You’ll see!”
3. It was amusing to see Sail Away wreck your position so thoroughly once you did elaborate. Now I see why you were vague to the point of useless.

#157 Duffy on 06.18.20 at 8:57 pm

The biggest winners are Amazon and Walmart. Their competition has been decimated.

Every April 31st for at least the next decade the biggest losers will try to fill in the bomb crater this virus and the socialists left behind.

#158 Faron on 06.18.20 at 8:57 pm

#144 Flop… on 06.18.20 at 8:29 pm

Put the caution tape away, and get creative…

Ha. Yeah. I had fun laughing at park benches shrink wrapped in CAUTION tape sending the message “THIS BENCH IS OUT TO KILL YOU”…

#159 the Jaguar on 06.18.20 at 9:01 pm

Dipper(Noun)

A member or supporter of the Canadian New Democratic Party.

Etymology: From NDPer (NDP + -er).

Dipper(Noun)

Of or belonging to the New Democratic Party or supporters of it.

Etymology: From NDPer (NDP + -er).

A further reference indicates it might also be used as slang for a pickpocket, which if one considers the propensity of the NDP to spend other peoples money might be entirely appropriate.

Anybody with even half a brain knows this reference to mean NDP in Canada. Reality check :This Blog originates in Canada.

#160 Nonplused on 06.18.20 at 9:06 pm

#143 Nonplused on 06.18.20 at 8:16 pm
#127 Nonplused on 06.18.20 at 7:26 pm
DELETED

Ok I’ve got to know what I possibly said in that one that caused a delete. Other than a mildly disparaging reference to the prime minister it was all economics.

Mocking a leader’s proper name = a delete. You are too articulate and intelligent for that adolescent behaviour. – Garth

———————

Ok, fair enough, your website. But I would say in my defense that I have gotten away with it ever since JT got elected the first time so I think I should have gotten a warning given how much time I spent crafting the rest of my comment, which I thought was with some merit and on subject. I guess rules change, you don’t use the phrase “Mr. Socks” anymore, but I was slow to realize the evolution. I suppose in the spirit of respectfulness it makes sense because upon reflection it could spiral out of control.

But that was a long and carefully crafted post! Couldn’t you have just deleted the first paragraph? The rest would have stood I think with review.

Anyway point taken I know you have had trouble cleaning up the site so I will do it no more. And I appreciate the complement of “articulate and intelligent” but the observation of adolescent? Well, I resemble that comment.

#161 Drill Baby Drill on 06.18.20 at 9:08 pm

Unfortunately most Canadians really do not realize just how sexually intercoursed we are. Canada has a serious derth of leadership and economic options. The only real serious option we have is oil and we are trying to kill this industry too. We are so dumb!!!

#162 Faron on 06.18.20 at 9:10 pm

#148 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 8:44 pm

#56 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:54 pm
#43 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 3:19 pm

4. Due to those raised prices SunShowers now has the exact same buying power as before.

Nope.

The percentage of the wage increase that gets pushed to higher prices would, at most, be the percentage of the business’ costs that the lowest wage labour represents. For service industries, this is a larger percentage, for other industries, much smaller. Overall %inflation would be some small fraction of the % wage increase.

For example, when the cost of wheat doubles, the price of bread increases by some amount less than a doubling. Likely much less.

Another, cloudier example: when manufacturing was offshored from the ’90s onward the change enabled prices for consumer goods to drop, but the full price drop was much less than the wage differential between the offshored labour and North American labour.

You are right that wage increases would bring some inflation, but incorrect that it would be a 1:1 relationship. Thus it’s not a zero sum game.

#163 Costco Nation on 06.18.20 at 9:12 pm

Exquisite reason, Garth. And insightful. Thank you!

#164 Looney Baloney on 06.18.20 at 9:19 pm

Dear Leader’s dog spotted in the wild!!
https://m.imgur.com/hzLdmUc

#165 TalkingPie on 06.18.20 at 9:20 pm

I’m into a few weeks of CERB now, too. Ironically, I feel I’m busier now than when I had my (admittedly lax, on-call) job.

In the past week I’ve easily spent my $2,000 monthly check on discretionary spending (stain and supplies for my 1,100 sq ft of deck plus flying lessons). Although I do keep an ear to the ground for jobs for which I’m qualified, and have made a few applications, I’m definitely not in hardcore “take any job which will pay me minimum wage or better” mode for a few reasons:

1) I have a decent unionized job with about a decade’s worth of seniority for which I’ll be recalled after things return to normal. Will that be 3 months? 3 years? Don’t know.

2) The Trudeau bucks have been promised, and once those run out, I’ll have EI, which pays slightly more than Daddy Trudeau has promised me.

3) I have savings, despite not doing or being anything impressive in life. Girlfriend is still making her modest income, and if I’m willing to blow my nest egg (which most definitely was earmarked for other things), I could continue to exist in our current home, with my current cars, and otherwise fairly restrained spending, for a year or two, assuming zero other income. And you know that Daddy Trudeau will give me at least some income. My actual daddy has offered funds if needed, too, but that’s not how I roll. It’s more than enough that he’s helping me sort out my deck.

For now, the weather is beautiful, the girlfriend looks great in her bikini in our pool, manual labour in one’s own backyard is gratifying, and the world looks pretty nice when you’re at the controls of a Cessna 172 at 3,000 ft.

#166 Dead Cat Bounce on 06.18.20 at 9:35 pm

The McCain family is happy Bill Morneau has a government job and isn’t running any part of the family business.

#167 Kristian on 06.18.20 at 9:36 pm

Wouldn’t a UBI be better than what we have now with CERB etc? Just shell out the same amount to everyone but reduce from the current $2,000 to something in between $1,000 to $1,500 per month. This would do away with all of the programs, the bureaucracy, confusion, eligibility issues etc. People can also then still earn income as usual and for those of us that didn’t need it, would end up repaying taxes or excesses at tax time.

#168 akashic record on 06.18.20 at 9:46 pm

Are there still companies today, which don’t do what’s the most beneficial for the company financially, over any other consideration, related to people?

#169 Calgary retiree on 06.18.20 at 9:48 pm

#117 Protester Work Ethic on 06.18.20 at 6:48 pm
“There is a sense of dignity and self-worth that comes when you are paid and have a task.”

Is this 1800s England? “Arbeit macht frei”?
————————————————

Bingo! That is the conservative mind-set flogged by this blog. This is why there must be no more conservative federal governments in Canada – ever!

Don’t like the blog? I have a cure for that. – Garth

#170 Drinking on 06.18.20 at 9:53 pm

One thing that I have noticed; especially the one’s that use Covid laws/rules to the full extent; it will never be on how hard you work, that does not matter, it is how much they use one for there self interests, and I am a seasoned one. It is a calamity and sickening, hopefully there is Karma and bites them in the ass! What a disappointment!!!

#171 The Woosh on 06.18.20 at 9:56 pm

The definition of a corporation is to make as much profit as is legally possible.

Is the CERB legal? Yes
If a corporation could collect CERB legally (even if they had a bucketload of cash in their Treasury), do you think the corporation would say no to the cash? Of course not. The corporation would take the cash.
Should Iris take the CERB versus making less money working? Of course she should.

Plus, it’s summer. The weather’s great. And she’ll get paid to enjoy it. It’s a no brainer!

#172 Pete from St. Cesaire on 06.18.20 at 9:57 pm

#31 Hugo J. on 06.18.20 at 2:35 pm
Garth, about time someone points out the obvious that working (even part time) is a better option for anyone’s self esteem rather than taking the easy way out and collecting CERB. Clearly employers will be looking at that when they hire new candidates. Why do you have to spell this out? Are Canadian this THICK that they don’t understand this?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most HR people are SJW Karen’s. They will be regarding those who went to work as being irresponsible/negligent. People will get further with HR by saying that they stayed at home, doing their part to protect society.

#173 Regular guy on 06.18.20 at 10:00 pm

#35 Give it a rest Garth

You are pathetic. Who do you think is paying for you to bake, exercise, and generally screw around? EVERYONE WHO IS WORKING! Real work, menial jobs or otherwise. It’s self entitled layabouts like you that will RUIN this country. You probably vote for T2. Shame on you.

#174 IHCTD9 on 06.18.20 at 10:10 pm

#124 Wrk.dover on 06.18.20 at 7:11 pm
same band/album as earlier today; ‘She Wants Money’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBdmDe1My_M
——

Good ol early 80’s RATT. Nostalgic stuff, first kisses and fun times predating the Internet.

My fav RATT oldie is “scene of the crime”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GixiPMorYg4

Here’s another early 80’s classic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUiEwx9LUEk

#175 Stone on 06.18.20 at 10:11 pm

#16 Dustmaker on 06.18.20 at 2:05 pm
Good one Sir, thank you for your inspiration.

———

What was inspiring? The part about being a good little cog or was it the part about being shamed to be on CERB because asking for help and being able to do math is a high crime?

And yeah, I’m a 1 percenter who in no way qualifies for CERB and pays a bucketload in taxes.

#176 Pete from St. Cesaire on 06.18.20 at 10:24 pm

Being employed gives daily meaning and context to a life. ‘And what do you do?’ is a universal question. ‘I brush the cat’, is a bad answer. There is a sense of dignity and self-worth that comes when you are paid and have a task. No pogey payment can provide that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reminds me of me when I was young. My parent’s friends and relatives would always ask “What are you going to be when you grow up”? They never liked my answer which usually went something like “I’m going to be happy and contented while striving to lead an honest life as a good person”. Nope, the WASP’S always gave my parents an earful over my response.

#177 Owl Eyes on 06.18.20 at 10:29 pm

‘I brush the cat’, is a bad answer.

I have to ask: is this dog blog cats-person shaming?

#178 n1tro on 06.18.20 at 10:30 pm

Yes! An example of Asian privilege…

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/sci-tech/study-ties-blood-type-to-covid-19-risk-o-may-help-a-hurt-1.4989349

#179 Scott Duncan on 06.18.20 at 10:42 pm

The person saying they can’t live on $18 an hour is doing something wrong or made some really bad choices in their life.

I have been working full time and still am working full time for $18 an hour. i have made $13 an hour 15 years ago now 3 years stuck at $18.25 an hour.

I am saving my $15,000 a year plus annual RRSP tax refunds in TFSA’s, RRSP’s, savings, investments for years now. I cut where i can and do wise decisions from no smoking, drinking, shopping around for best deals etc.

If i don’t pay cash or debit straight from my bank account I don’t buy it. My car is paid off, no credit card debts, no debts at all. I rent and have now $350,000 in investments, savings, RRSP’s, TFSA’s at 35 years old.

The problem today is people are too entitled and think they deserve everything they want and the government must give it them if they can’t get it any other way. The problem they don’t understand is if everyone has an easy chunk of money say $500,000 to 1 million dollars in their bank account not over night but even in 10, 20, 30 years without earning it, it will destroy everyone’s money through very high inflation, cost of living, taxes etc. and we will all be much poorer in the short, medium and even longer run.

The lacking of basic financial information, education and knowledge from how taxes, debt, credit cards, mortgages, pensions to RRSP, TFSA’s to many other day to day savings, investments etc. work and how to maximize the most money in your pocket is the real problem in our schools and society. Also, the lack of personal and other types of financial responsibility is where the entitlement mentality is the worse.

Wake up people or we will end up like the U.S.S.R, Venezuela, Argentina and many other poorer countries that are now trapped in a deep hole that they can never get back out.

#180 willworkforpickles on 06.18.20 at 11:07 pm

The next crises will cut to the bone. The days of soft cushion crises support are here and now and soon to be gone.
The next crises will unfold like a true crises of epic proportion when government spending will be reined in by force.
The dollar itself will be drowning in one in a few short years.

#181 45north on 06.18.20 at 11:10 pm

The dilemma

Workers who don’t work. Employers who can’t hire. Soon, taxpayers on the brink.

on the brink of paying so much taxes they don’t have any money left?

on the brink of paying so much taxes they don’t have enough money to live?

on the brink of not paying enough taxes to allow the government to pay the interest on the debt?

all of the above?

I’m going with all of the above. People who pay taxes are going to pay more taxes but that’s not going to be enough to pay the interest on the debt. What’s the biblical passage – the seven thin cows ate the seven fat cows but the seven thin cows didn’t get any fatter.

#182 Leo Trollstoy on 06.18.20 at 11:38 pm

To go back to work for less money than you’re getting from CERB is dumb

Anybody who makes that choice didn’t pass arithmetic

Jobs are a dime a dozen

#183 Dirty Dan on 06.18.20 at 11:45 pm

DELETED

#184 Buy? Curious? on 06.18.20 at 11:46 pm

Oh, that’s right! Government CPP money = good. Government CERP = bad.

Garth, the pitch forks are like today’s youth, they’re coming out of the closet and into the streets.

————————————————————————————————-
I heard from a very sexy, bearded fellow, known for wearing cowboy boots and love for cannabis, whoops, I meant canines, who *ahem* said, and I’m paraphrasing, WHENEVER THE GOVERNMENT GIVES YOU MONEY, YOU TAKE IT!

Who said that? Who?!?

Bwahaha! Cha-ching 2020!

Ever wonder who the suckers in the room are? If you don’t know, it’s you!

The reference was to CPP, which is paid for my employee and employer contributions. Grow up. – Garth

#185 NFN_NLN on 06.18.20 at 11:52 pm

#168 Calgary retiree on 06.18.20 at 9:48 pm
#117 Protester Work Ethic on 06.18.20 at 6:48 pm
“There is a sense of dignity and self-worth that comes when you are paid and have a task.”

Is this 1800s England? “Arbeit macht frei”?
————————————————

Bingo! That is the conservative mind-set flogged by this blog. This is why there must be no more conservative federal governments in Canada – ever!

Don’t like the blog? I have a cure for that. – Garth

///

Garth, I think you’re being unfair. You can’t expect the leeching left to understand a concept as foreign as “dignity”, it just isn’t in their vocabulary.

#186 SoggyShorts on 06.19.20 at 12:15 am

#161 Faron on 06.18.20 at 9:10 pm
#148 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 8:44 pm

#56 SunShowers on 06.18.20 at 3:54 pm
#43 SoggyShorts on 06.18.20 at 3:19 pm

4. Due to those raised prices SunShowers now has the exact same buying power as before.

Nope.

You are right that wage increases would bring some inflation, but incorrect that it would be a 1:1 relationship. Thus it’s not a zero sum game.
***************************
In the 5+ years that it would take to raise the minimum wage another $5 so as not to (shock-crush companies) regular inflation on top of extra wage inflation would come pretty close, then Sunny would come asking for another bump, and so the cycle repeats.
It doesn’t need to be zero-sum if you include outside factors.

And again, I think you underestimate the number of businesses where labor is by far the biggest cost.

#187 AACI Homedog on 06.19.20 at 12:15 am

It’s been said here many times. We are so screwed….

#188 Handsome Ned on 06.19.20 at 12:22 am

I see that the Trudeau1 statue had its face painted black. I worry down the road about Garths statue getting vandalized. The chiseled abs would be a target as they fat shame men of normal physiques. Feminists would take a sledge hammer to the genitalia. Environmentalists would be outraged over the carbon emissions required to transport a 30 ton marble slab from Italy. I can imagine this statue; his faithful hounds resting at his feet, a sword in one upraised hand and the dripping head of a real estate agent dangling in the other. Too bad Michaelangelo and Rodin are no longer with us.

#189 Chester Molokau on 06.19.20 at 12:26 am

DELETED

#190 JPN on 06.19.20 at 12:31 am

I have 3 warehouse positions that I’ve been trying to fill for over a month. $ 19.00 / hr .. Crickets… had one interview set up for this Monday.. he called and cancelled
today.

#191 Kat on 06.19.20 at 12:41 am

My husband has the opportunity to take EI and not work. We discussed it and decided working was always the better option because when people need someone they will always ask the person already employed. It is just the way it is. Also like you said work fulfills many other needs in a person so it is always the desired option. We are sick of hearing of our friends taking the other option because why not it is like a vacation. Sad to see poor work ethic and employers notice this like you said. Any work for hvac in Nova Scotia? Been wanting to move there for years and with all the nutters in Vancouver we are ready to pack up and leave for good now.

#192 S12K on 06.19.20 at 12:42 am

People conditioned by a lifetime of economic precarity and fear will take any opportunity to feel supported during this unprecedented stress, I’m sure. With UBI, future generations may not be conditioned by the same basic fears for their food and housing. It will allow them to take a whole new approach to career choice, take more risk in entrepreneurship, and evolve a global economy that’s been clearly out-of-date for some time. It’s a sea change for employers, but adapt or go out of business, really. The advent of the internet is like the invention of the printing press. Its effects will be no less seismic.

#193 SWL on 06.19.20 at 1:00 am

@45 sunshowers

But if minimum wage is raised to $20 an hour, that’s a completely different scenario, one where I am not at a competitive disadvantage.

———————

I hope you enjoy your 45$ pizza. Cause that’s what it cost to make it. Its called minimum wage for a reason. Why should a 15 year old kid washing dishes be making a government mandated ‘living wage’? Like Garth said, go open your widget business and report back

#194 Dr V on 06.19.20 at 1:19 am

161 Faron

“The percentage of the wage increase that gets pushed to higher prices would, at most, be the percentage of the business’ costs that the lowest wage labour represents.”

Faron – absolutely incorrect. You’ve never signed a paycheque have you?

I’ve hired, fired, given raises and refused raises. I’ve seen shock on their faces, as well as thankfulness.

Wage raises are not in isolation, especially when it is done simply because the law says so. Raising the minimum, or just raising the lowest wage in a business
has a domino effect. you then have to look at and consider every worker’s wage to keep them a certain level above their subordinates.

Had a neighbour who was an engineer at a local mill. He loved it when the union got a raise because he knew he would get one soon too.

#195 Longterm on 06.19.20 at 1:52 am

This anecdotal cherry picking of people collecting CERB and [allegedly] munching chips on the sofa and then drawing the conclusion that ‘free money’ is going to kill the work ethic and collapse of the world as we know it is BS.

There are loads of highly motivated people to whom CERB mophing into UBI would be a huge boon to their creativity and output and ultimately benefit us all way more than wasting their time flipping burgers, packing boxes or some other inane $15-20 hour job.

Think of what your would do to reaaslize your potential if unshackled from the need to make money to pay for the most basic costs of living. Given enough UBI to ensure security of food and shelter and those prime hours wasted at crap jobs, what would you do? I doubt playing video games would be top of the list for long. Humans are creative and given the space and freedom, watch out.

Think of post graduate students and researchers, inventors of all stripes, hobby programmers, budding entrepreneurs strapped for time to get their ideas off the ground because of a crap job sucking their prime hours and energy, regenerative small-scale farmers who produce or want to food and massive ecological benefits but can’t survive without crap part time, poets and authors, budding filmmakers, musicians, athletes aiming for the top of their sport, and all the rest of people who’d have more time to exercise more and incur lower healthcare costs to the system.

Your politics and preconceived notions about human nature are blinding you to the potential. Give people UBI and watch the creative beast get unleashed.

Whichever country is the first to bring is UBI is going to have the first mover advantage of a creative tsunami that is going to be jaw dropping.

#196 SoggyShorts on 06.19.20 at 2:05 am

Not sure if this has been talked about yet, but it seems rather sad:

As of June 22, 2020, Harley-Davidson will no longer be featured on the S&P 500 index

#197 Howard on 06.19.20 at 4:21 am

You certainly didn’t see this in the mainstream media.

76% of Canadians want a pause on immigration until the unemployment rate normalizes.

https://tnc.news/2020/06/10/canadians-want-pause-on-immigration/

#198 Axehead on 06.19.20 at 4:24 am

I miss the days when this blog was about dissing Kia’s.

#199 Toronto_CA on 06.19.20 at 5:34 am

I dunno, until we either invent the “replicator” from Star Trek or automation is at the point where robots/machines can do create a massive amount of goods and services we use daily without human help, a UBI is sort of doomed to fail.

I view it as the pinnacle of society that we don’t have to toil as humans and can be using our brains and bodies for creativity and betterment of mankind.

But right now, if you pay people not to work, eventually there isn’t enough goods and services to buy at the prices that universal income can afford, so you need to increase the universal income, and that will decrease the workers and increase prices, and so on. That’s my theory anyway. We can get there one day.

I do very much like the idea of eliminating multiple levels of inefficient government bureaucracy on giving people support payments though. A single source for all pogey that is efficiently administered would be amazing.

#200 under the radar on 06.19.20 at 5:44 am

11- More nonsense
So the Province of Ontario now officially has all commercial properties owned by the government. Or will. Because if the commercial landlords don’t pay the massive property taxes, guess who is seizing the property for tax arrears?

This has always been the remedy for governments that collect property taxes including residential property taxes. Just so you know it takes about three years for a tax sale to happen. By the way, your buddy should appeal his assessment.

As for the rental assistance program, it is poorly constructed which is why only 16000 landlords have participated. I have a friend who applied for two properties , he got his money in 5 days.

#201 Wrk.dover on 06.19.20 at 6:50 am

The torture never stops!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdbtZqEyE7U

#202 Bytor the Snow Dog on 06.19.20 at 6:58 am

#149 Robert Ash on 06.18.20 at 8:45 pm choppily types:

“I can attest to this statement, in my experience as a Small Business person, in Canada. I often hired Casual Day Laborers from The Bissel Center. Many folks, with different ideas, and backgrounds, and I can tell you many stories of how a good days, work, is really uplifting for the vast majority of people. I was a small business – renos, and worked shoulder to shoulder with these folks…. Lunch time or breaktime… we get to relax and swap some life stories… This trend to Socialism, is dangerous and self defeating. A person, needs direction, volunteering is popular for Seniors for a reason… Every since the jobs, for quite young folks, like Paper boys, etc. have been eliminated, our society is taking a few steps, backward. We will be sold eventually to Asians, with better work commitment habits… Sad to encourage this type of behavior!”
—————————————————
Do you, get paid by the, comma?

#203 recharts on 06.19.20 at 7:27 am

here is one for your next post
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/reserve-bank-considered-asking-for-real-estate-transaction-pause/12363222

#204 Tater on 06.19.20 at 8:03 am

#55 Jean Caudinque on 06.18.20 at 3:53 pm
Garth, I agree. We should be encouraging savings, investments, business and capital formation. Capital gains and all other income should be inflation adjusted yearly.

A higher GST, HST or sales tax, consumption taxes and lower income taxes and lower taxes on capital, savings, investments, business etc.

I would say that today we already have a de facto big tax on capital, investments etc. It is called rock bottom, crashed, pushed down interest rates and understated inflation rates. When governments are paying 1% or less on their debt, bonds instead of historical 2% to 3%+ inflation, they are taxing all that capital, investments etc. by not paying 5% to 7% higher interest rates a year on all their debt, bonds.

This is saving minimum $200 to $300 billion a year in annual interest for all governments. This is without compounding taken into account which would easily double to triple that over years. Also, property taxes and other fees on homeowners, businesses, real estate higher rents etc. due to these higher taxes,fees etc. rising 8% to 12% a year way higher than the fake stated 2% annual inflation rates. This is probably tens of billions more we are paying for. Remember the $38 billion more in 8 years in hydro, electricity rates due to McGuinty, Wynee Liberals incompetence green energy projects.

The real problem is out of control, insane spending and wasteful, unsustainable government spending, taxing. This looks everyday more and more a economic hit done on purpose to destroy stronger economic countries to pay for weaker ones and encourage communism, socialism which is designed to fail.

People are going to have to learn the hard way. You can’t get blood from a stone. There is no free lunch in life.
————————————————————-

If you want the private sector to have savings, the public sector needs to have debt.

#205 NorthOf49 on 06.19.20 at 8:10 am

Ford government planning to reduce holidays for front-line retail workers, union says

https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/06/18/ford-government-planning-to-reduce-holidays-for-front-line-retail-workers-union-says.html

And you wonder why people would rather stay on CERB.

Forcing small businesses to close for 9 stat holidays a year is the issue. It’s not about making employees work extra (unless they want double pay for holiday shifts). Don’t fall for the union line. – Garth

#206 Tater on 06.19.20 at 8:11 am

#189 JPN on 06.19.20 at 12:31 am
I have 3 warehouse positions that I’ve been trying to fill for over a month. $ 19.00 / hr .. Crickets… had one interview set up for this Monday.. he called and cancelled
today.
————————————————————

Hmmmm. You’re offering something at a price, and no-one is interested. What could the solution be? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Do you guarantee 37.5 hours a week or is this a “we call it full time but the average weekly hours is more like 25” kinda job?

Do you other employees like working for you? What are they telling people about the work environment.

The nice part about CERB is it has exposed how many crappy employers there are out there.

#207 milly on 06.19.20 at 8:28 am

I just want to mention I think the$2,000 is untaxed, meaning you don’t keep all 2k. You will owe taxes after this…

I wonder how hard it will be for the gov to collect these taxes…

The money arrives without tax withheld. Therefore, untaxed. – Garth

#208 Dharma Bum on 06.19.20 at 8:37 am

This COVID crap is being artificially prolonged to give the government a fake make-work project and a sense of self importance and the ultimate power grab. Trudeau is an incompetent buffoon, and history, in time, will bear that reality out.

Cut the welfare nonsense.

Just re-open the economy immediately.

Back to work, EVERYBODY!

Business as usual. Start up the machines, and get the presses rolling.

Are some people going to get sick? Maybe.

They can go to the doctor or hospital for treatment. The billions saved from not paying welfare handouts can help supplement the previously underfunded health care system.

Pay nurses and doctors more, and hire more of them to treat anyone who gets ill.

Then send them back to work.

Welfare has never been the solution.

It always worsens the problem.

#209 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 8:37 am

#180 45north on 06.18.20 at 11:10

What’s the biblical passage – the seven thin cows ate the seven fat cows but the seven thin cows didn’t get any fatter.
—-

I’d like to know what Trudeau is dreaming about these days…

I’d guess a “revenue famine”, and it’s going to last for more than 7 years.

#210 TurnerNation on 06.19.20 at 8:41 am

Take a look at who is running the New System.
Apple and Google together.
(Makes as much sense as Coke collaborating with Pepsi. Or GM with Ford. Not going to happen)
But they did. This is a global rollout a long time coming. There is nowhere to hide.
Local governments are but a facade. Look, the statues and streets will be torn down anyway. It’s a global war.

“The Globe and Mail reports in its Friday edition that the federal government is promoting the use of a smart phone app that can alert Canadians if they have been near someone who has recently tested positive for COVID-19. The Globe’s Ivan Semeniuk writes that the decision, announced by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau at a news briefing Thursday, ended weeks of speculation over which particular version of the technology Ottawa was leaning toward — or whether it was dropping the idea altogether because of concerns that such apps may compromise the privacy of those who use them. The app selected by the feds is the same one unveiled by Ontario Premier Doug Ford shortly after the Prime Minister’s announcement. It is a version of COVID Shield, an app created as an independent project by developers affiliated with the Ottawa-based e-commerce company Shopify. It relies on an interface created jointly by Apple and Google that has been adopted by several other countries, including Britain, which Thursday said it would shut down an app it developed earlier in favour of the Apple-Google system. “

#211 Phylis on 06.19.20 at 9:02 am

#206 milly on 06.19.20 at 8:28 am I can hear it already. The whine will be, “Why is my tax refund so small?”

#212 TurnerNation on 06.19.20 at 9:02 am

#194 Longterm what if they are all to stoned and passive on T2’s soma? I see in the decimated streets (say Queen st West in Toronto) the new head shops already signing to open and replace.

Here’s a map – blanketing the city is planned. They’ll stone you just like they said they would.

Found on Reddit:
https://www.agco.ca/sites/default/files/map/ONT_CN_ST_E.html

— The Nat Post link Van health gal posted. My take for a while has been that rural municipalities will be forced to wind down services. $$. Forcing people into the crowded UN Smart Cities per plan. No insurance company will touch you once the local fire hall closes up. Wasteland.

#213 Abc123 on 06.19.20 at 9:05 am

May I ask Garth or anyone ,what a balanced portfolio should look like YTD, In terms of rate of return.?

I ask because mine is exactly flat. Just wondering how others are doing?

In the midst of a global pandemic you have lost no money? Sounds like a win. – Garth

#214 Tater on 06.19.20 at 9:11 am

#206 milly on 06.19.20 at 8:28 am
I just want to mention I think the$2,000 is untaxed, meaning you don’t keep all 2k. You will owe taxes after this…

I wonder how hard it will be for the gov to collect these taxes…

The money arrives without tax withheld. Therefore, untaxed. – Garth
———————————————————–

By this logic capital gains are untaxed because the tax due isn’t withheld.

Let’s wait and see how much CERB is returned to Ottawa. Prepare to be underwhelmed. – Garth

#215 Dharma Bum on 06.19.20 at 9:15 am

#200 Wrk.Dover

The torture never stops!
——————————————————————–

I LOVE it!

I KNEW that was a coded Zappa message.

Pleased to see I was right when clicking the link.

Dyna-mo-hummmmm!!!

#216 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 9:23 am

#198 Toronto_CA on 06.19.20 at 5:34 am
I dunno, until we either invent the “replicator” from Star Trek or automation is at the point where robots/machines can do create a massive amount of goods and services we use daily without human help, a UBI is sort of doomed to fail.

I view it as the pinnacle of society that we don’t have to toil as humans and can be using our brains and bodies for creativity and betterment of mankind.

But right now, if you pay people not to work, eventually there isn’t enough goods and services to buy at the prices that universal income can afford, so you need to increase the universal income, and that will decrease the workers and increase prices, and so on. That’s my theory anyway. We can get there one day.

I do very much like the idea of eliminating multiple levels of inefficient government bureaucracy on giving people support payments though. A single source for all pogey that is efficiently administered would be amazing.
— —- –

It gets complicated when you consider most of the consumer goods we consume now a days are made elsewhere. So you could UBI the crap out of Canada, and the goods would still be there.

IMHO, as technology and outsourcing march forward, many consumer goods will keep getting cheaper, but here in the West the cost of our government and domestic supplied services will keep going up. The mix and costs thereof will play a large role in determining financial outcomes for individuals.

The less work carried out in the West (at Western costs), the better it is for everyone’s cost of living. The problem is UBI depends on high private sector wages (for taxation purposes) which appear to all be headed for the trash can.

I’d be banking on the eventual outsourcing or elimination (via technology) of every high priced private sector job possible in the West. At some point, the ability to raise revenues for things like UBI will die as well.

At that point, we all better hope MMT works because the government (as we know it today) will have no other option for revenues other than firing up the printing presses…

#217 SunShowers on 06.19.20 at 9:31 am

#184 NFN_NLN on 06.18.20 at 11:52 pm
Garth, I think you’re being unfair. You can’t expect the leeching left to understand a concept as foreign as “dignity”, it just isn’t in their vocabulary.
———————–

Oh, the left understands dignity just fine. We understand that there is an inherent dignity in human life, and I think almost everyone believes that to some extent. After all, we’ve decided as a society that things like healthcare and K-12 education, and some degree of welfare spending should be a human right for everyone instead of a paid privilege. It’s only logical to extend that to other basic necessities such as food and clothing, and since single-payer government provided food and clothing is dumb, a modest (it’s below minimum wage in all but 4 provinces/territories) UBI makes the most sense.

Aside from basic human dignity, my own sense of personal dignity would be extremely diminished if I were only offered a meager amount above UBI to work full time. Minimum wage is $14/hr in Ontario, and UBI works out to $12.50 an hour. I have too much dignity to sell my time for $1.50 an hour. Is your time and effort worth that little to you? I hope not.

It’s conservatives who don’t understand dignity. For them, a person’s worth begins and ends with how much value they’re able to generate for their employer.

#192 SWL on 06.19.20 at 1:00 am
I hope you enjoy your 45$ pizza. Cause that’s what it cost to make it. Its called minimum wage for a reason. Why should a 15 year old kid washing dishes be making a government mandated ‘living wage’?
———————–

Refer back to the FDR quote in #41.
The guy served FOUR TERMS as president, he is literally the reason term limits exist. He was the one who got the USA out of the great depression and kicked off a massive economic expansion. Maybe he was on to something.

And $45 pizzas is delusional. If labor costs double, prices won’t double in lockstep, because more goes into the costs of goods and services than just labor costs. Of course prices will need to rise somewhat, but it will be more than offset by the increased business that comes from more customers having more money to spend.

#218 Stone on 06.19.20 at 9:35 am

#184 NFN_NLN on 06.18.20 at 11:52 pm
#168 Calgary retiree on 06.18.20 at 9:48 pm
#117 Protester Work Ethic on 06.18.20 at 6:48 pm
“There is a sense of dignity and self-worth that comes when you are paid and have a task.”

Is this 1800s England? “Arbeit macht frei”?
————————————————

Bingo! That is the conservative mind-set flogged by this blog. This is why there must be no more conservative federal governments in Canada – ever!

Don’t like the blog? I have a cure for that. – Garth

///

Garth, I think you’re being unfair. You can’t expect the leeching left to understand a concept as foreign as “dignity”, it just isn’t in their vocabulary.

———

I think your definition of dignity might be a tad bit warped. Did your parents also teach you to keep your head down, not to make waves, never talk back, kissing ass is the way to advancement in life? Sad.

#219 the Jaguar on 06.19.20 at 9:47 am

And so it begins……………..

‘“Globalization, perhaps the largest driver of developed world profitability over the past few decades, has already peaked,” the analysts said. “Now the U. S.China conflict and global pandemic are further accelerating moves by multinationals to restore and duplicate supply chains, with a focus on reliability as opposed to just cost optimization.”

The pandemic- induced collapse in demand has already resulted in a huge fall in profit margins in the short term, the analysts added.

Intel Corp. and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. are cited as two examples of firms that have announced intentions to build production facilities in the U.S., despite the higher costs.'”

#220 the Jaguar on 06.19.20 at 9:53 am

New movie out now for Billy Bob.
7500.
Can’t wait to see it. I feel scared already.

#221 SimplyPut7 on 06.19.20 at 9:57 am

Besides the fact that the CERB program is not viable long-term, it really doesn’t help large cities like Toronto and Vancouver, as the income received on the program are still very low compared to what people were making when they worked full-time pre-crisis.

And we don’t know how many jobs will come back after the lockdown ends.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/retail-sales-plunged-26-in-april-during-full-month-lockdown-1.1453076

https://www.straight.com/news/rbc-economics-sees-distressed-selling-by-some-homeowners-investors-as-pandemic-takes-toll

The decrease in rental income could also hurt landlords and the economy as many investment condos are coming to market with the expectation of being able to charge higher rents than the previous year to breakeven.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/06/18/toronto-rents-drop-as-landlords-offer-incentives-to-attract-tenants.html

#222 Phil on 06.19.20 at 10:20 am

cramar on 06.18.20 at 3:36 pm

I wrote about this in previous years, but it is interesting that this recent article is by the BBC, from the British perspective:

The record-breaking jet which still haunts a country

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200615-the-record-breaking-jet-which-still-haunts-a-country
——————————————————
I was young when the Avro Arrow was cancelled, but even then I could see that Canada was probably the 51st. state.
Pressure came from the U.S. I believe, to cancel a potentially strong competitor.
The fact the planes were totally destroyed and design drawings disposed of, is pretty compelling evidence.
Hewers of wood and drawers of water indeed!

#223 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 10:36 am

#216 SunShowers on 06.19.20 at 9:31 am

And $45 pizzas is delusional. If labor costs double, prices won’t double in lockstep, because more goes into the costs of goods and services than just labor costs. Of course prices will need to rise somewhat, but it will be more than offset by the increased business that comes from more customers having more money to spend.
——

But – prices WILL increase to the highest cost folks will pay over time. It’s the same (but opposite) of what happened when globalized manufacturing took a massive chunk of costs out of production.

After 10-20 years of cheap manufacturing, everyone now charges near the same price for everything, because you either jumped on the outsourcing bandwagon or went bankrupt. Margins are just as slim as ever thanks to all these outsourcers banging each other over the head for market share just like they did when employing domestic labour. This is what naturally happens when you sell based on cost instead of value. Winner? The consumer.

You can bet your last dollar that after a few years of every pizza joint in town being packed to the rafters with hungry new pizza consumers, that prices will go up. Before long, that pizza will cost about the same relative to surplus incomes as it did before wage increases. Consumers won’t get more affordable pizza, but the pizza joint owner would sure love it.

In the end, high wages means high costs. A guy can win during the transition period, but it won’t be long before that higher wage no longer leaves anything extra at the end of the month.

Who would win with a higher “living wage”?

Business owners. Their outsourcing costs would barely move as they inched prices up on the domestic front. When you think about it, the biggest money is made through times of transition where room to manoeuvre suddenly appears.

I know a couple business owners who gave themselves a raise when Ontario put the minimum wages up. They cranked the prices up and put a sign out front saying that they DO NOT PAY minimum wages, and that all employees got 16.00 hr. The reality was the consumer was not only footing that 16.00, but also another 2.00 on the shop rate.

Room to manoeuvre…

#224 Wrk.dover on 06.19.20 at 10:42 am

#214 Dharma Bum on 06.19.20 at 9:15 am
#200 Wrk.Dover

The torture never stops!
——————————————————————–

I LOVE it!

I KNEW that was a coded Zappa message

————————————–

The Joe’s Garage album would be an excellent play for the Turner Nation poster person.

It is either all about or about where we are now

#225 whiplash on 06.19.20 at 10:56 am

Universal Basic Income–This is right out of the playbook of Pierre Trudeau. Back in 1974 the first Trudeau and the NDP government of Manitoba launched a pilot project called MINCOME or Manitoba Basic Annual Income Experiment in selected areas, it was terminated when both the libs/ndp were defeated in elections later on.
Justin is doing nothing original just copying what daddy did!

#226 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 11:18 am

#224 whiplash on 06.19.20 at 10:56 am
Universal Basic Income–This is right out of the playbook of Pierre Trudeau. Back in 1974 the first Trudeau and the NDP government of Manitoba launched a pilot project called MINCOME or Manitoba Basic Annual Income Experiment in selected areas, it was terminated when both the libs/ndp were defeated in elections later on.
Justin is doing nothing original just copying what daddy did!
——-

Same pilot here in Ontario 2018 via the Libs, exact same ending too lol!

#227 Squite on 06.19.20 at 11:44 am

#224 whiplash on 06.19.20 at 10:56 am
————————————————
I agree with whiplash to a certain extent. See below for more information.

FROM: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275648949_The_Case_for_Basic_Income_in_Canada

The idea of a universal minimum level of income support for all Canadians was first recommended by the Croll Committee Report in 1971. In the same year, the Castonguay-Nepveu Commission of Quebec suggested a similar scheme. In the early 1970s, a Social Security review reintroduced the concept. Based on proposals from these studies, the Canadian government, in partnership with the province of Manitoba, conducted a Negative Income Tax (NIT) Experiment called MINCOME, between 1974 and 1979. At the time, it was widely believed that this experiment would serve as a pilot for a universal programme that would revolutionize the ways in which Canadians pay taxes, receive benefits and earn income. The oil shocks and persistent stagflation of the 1970s brought different governments to power at both the federal and provincial levels, and ended MINCOME without implementation of the anticipated universal basic income proposal. In 1986, however, the idea was revived by the Royal Commission on the Economic Union and Development Prospects for Canada, known as the Macdonald Commission and, once again, the excitement generated by such a radical proposal did not translate into a universal basic income scheme. Since then, subsequent governments have continued to flirt with the idea, and the most effective new social support programmes in Canada, such as the National Child Benefit, are built on the lines of a negative income tax.

#228 Faron on 06.19.20 at 11:51 am

#192 SWL on 06.19.20 at 1:00 am

@45 sunshowers

Why should a 15 year old kid washing dishes be making a government mandated ‘living wage’?

It shows your age that you think that low-income jobs are held by kids nowadays.

And for those 15 y/o kids working entry level, if you show them that by working a shitty job they can do decently well for themselves, they would be inspired to work their faces off.

And why not allow any person to earn a living wage? Why would anyone deserve less because of age? That becomes a slippery slope that soon includes sex, sexual orientation, race etc etc. How do you know the 15 y/o didn’t run away from abusive parents and actually needs to make a living wage? Just because *you* were raised in an era where 15y/o did paper routes before school and then played sports and went home for supper doesn’t mean all were.

#193 Dr V on 06.19.20 at 1:19 am

161 Faron

Fair enough, but it’s still not one to one and not zero sum, so it’s a lie to state otherwise. You didn’t make that statement, but others did.

I think very very few are willing to admit that paying as low a wage as possible allows a business to be profitable enough for the owner to take a nice chunk off the top. Maybe not small/medium sized businesses, but there’s no question that extreme wealth is generated by large corps and that wealth is scraped off the skin of the low wage worker either here or wherever the labour has been outsourced.

#229 Bytor the Snow Dog on 06.19.20 at 11:52 am

#203 Tater on 06.19.20 at 8:03 am erroneously bleats, again:

“If you want the private sector to have savings, the public sector needs to have debt.”
—————————————————————–
Where does this nonsense come from?

#230 Don Guillermo on 06.19.20 at 11:54 am

#134 Shirl Clarts on 06.18.20 at 7:46 pm
#108 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 6:19 pm
#89 Retro Marxist on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm
Harper bailed out the banks back in 2008-09. Where is your outrage?
********************************************
Canada came into the 08/09 crisis with healthiest G7 economy and came out of it with the healthiest G7 economy (thx SH). This time? Exact opposite (thx JT)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Premature, Don. We won’t know until GDP is calculated for a full year, not in the middle of the pandemic. Too many swings Q to Q.
****************************************

We do know that we went into GFC 2008 in better economic health than into Covid Crash 2020.

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/the-fault-lines-of-federalism/avoiding-the-financial-crisis-lessons-from-canada/

Key quote from within link:

“Prudence may be boring, but it pays off, particularly when viewed over the complete economic cycle. Despite some ill timed pronouncements to the contrary, economic cycles have not been consigned to the dustbin of history.”

We all know Trudeau is anything but boring.

#231 SWL on 06.19.20 at 11:54 am

@216 SunShowers

I don’t think you have any concept of what it takes to raise capital and shoulder risk to start a business let alone make payroll

45$ is what it will cost to make pizza if minumum wage is pushed up to 20$ an hour. Or, is it just the people at the bottom of the pay scale that deserve the raise? Should the 15 year old washing dishes while sneaking glimpses at their phones be making more per hour than the shop owner

All you have is unicorns and pixie dust. Report back with substance

Minimum wage is called that for a reason. Its a starting wage and has never, and was never intended to be a living wage. Living wages take drive, work ethic and a set of morals that are becoming scarce in this world of instant gratification and CREB handouts

We have been meeting the government mandate of minimum wage increases of over 10% over the last 3 years and what message do you think that sends to young people just entering the work force?

Free money, pay me more for doing the same, you owe me. At the end of the day if the business owner can’t butter their own bread then there will be no more small business. Sound like a working model?

#232 Faron on 06.19.20 at 11:56 am

#223 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 10:36 am

Who would win with a higher “living wage”?

Business owners

Ha, nice. Then why don’t they push for it?

#233 Tater on 06.19.20 at 11:59 am

#225 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 11:18 am
#224 whiplash on 06.19.20 at 10:56 am
Universal Basic Income–This is right out of the playbook of Pierre Trudeau. Back in 1974 the first Trudeau and the NDP government of Manitoba launched a pilot project called MINCOME or Manitoba Basic Annual Income Experiment in selected areas, it was terminated when both the libs/ndp were defeated in elections later on.
Justin is doing nothing original just copying what daddy did!
——-

Same pilot here in Ontario 2018 via the Libs, exact same ending too lol!
————————————————————-

Lol that a program that helped keep people out of poverty was ended, even though it made a major improvement in their lives, didn’t remove the incentive to work and gave them a way out of poverty.

You really are a parasite, hovering up every subsidy you can get, bragging about paying no tax, and spitting on the poorest in our society.

#234 Jeff on 06.19.20 at 12:03 pm

I see 3 possible scenario out of this mess

a) High to very high inflation in the years to come, once economy fully restart.

b) high to very high tax raise.

c) Mix of a & b.

Interrest rate can’t rise much or all govs go bust.

FMI talked about The great reset, Garth can you give your opinion on that ?

#235 Tater on 06.19.20 at 12:06 pm

#229 Bytor the Snow Dog on 06.19.20 at 11:52 am
#203 Tater on 06.19.20 at 8:03 am erroneously bleats, again:

“If you want the private sector to have savings, the public sector needs to have debt.”
—————————————————————–
Where does this nonsense come from?
————————————————————–

It is a simple accounting identity.

Government creates money, government spending puts it into the economy, taxes take it out of the economy. Can you agree that is true?

If the government spends $100 and taxes back $90, they have a deficit of $10 and the private sector has a positive balance of $10.

See, so simple even you can understand it.

#236 JonBoy on 06.19.20 at 12:07 pm

#144 Flop… on 06.18.20 at 8:29 pm
Shut it down crowd wins again.

Just saw they are shutting Peace Arch International Park due to it being too popular at the moment.

Come on guys, how would you feel if that was your only way to see a loved one face to face?

I’d be spitting chips.

Get bloody innovative, just don’t surround everything with caution tape.

A lot of things now you have to book appointments.

Why not have families book time at the park to see each other?

Not perfect, but better than nothing.

Put the caution tape away, and get creative…

M45BC

—-

Friends of ours were supposed to get married there tomorrow. She’s American and he’s Canadian. The only way they could get both their families to the wedding was to have it at that park.

Now they’re getting married without her parents at the wedding, in a church.

Brutal change of plans! I can’t imagine not being at my child’s wedding.

#237 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 12:15 pm

#232 Faron on 06.19.20 at 11:56 am
#223 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 10:36 am

Who would win with a higher “living wage”?

Business owners

Ha, nice. Then why don’t they push for it?

— –

Sounds like you’re assuming all business owners care about is making money?

They’re also people with ideas and opinions.

#238 Just stuff on 06.19.20 at 12:17 pm

You can assure Iris that employers will notice this stuff and likely resent it. Small business owners are working their assess off to survive.

I’m also hearing a lot of small business owners DO NOT qualify for the government small business assistance because you need to have a minimum credit score. Guess what? A lot of small bus owners have poor credit ratings b/c they bet the farm on their business.

Trust me, a lot of us will not want Iris.

#239 SunShowers on 06.19.20 at 12:17 pm

#231 SWL on 06.19.20 at 11:54 am
Minimum wage is called that for a reason. Its a starting wage and has never, and was never intended to be a living wage.
———————-

To put it bluntly, you’re wrong. Refer to the bottom half of post #217 (which is itself a request to refer to post #41).

The fact of the matter is that if you don’t think a 21 year old living on their own deserves a living wage for washing dishes, then you don’t think they deserve to live. Period (it’s called a “living wage” for a reason). It’s like saying that people have a right to breathe (personal freedom and all that), but no right to the oxygen in the air (entitled liberals expecting it for free?!). Any other interpretation is just slippery sophistry.

Maybe you should also take a gander at the middle part of post #217, specifically the part about how a conservative’s interpretation of a person’s worth begins and ends with that person’s ability to generate value for their employer.

Repeating yourself is tiring, I guess this is how Garth must feel.

#240 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 12:26 pm

#229 Bytor the Snow Dog on 06.19.20 at 11:52 am
#203 Tater on 06.19.20 at 8:03 am erroneously bleats, again:

“If you want the private sector to have savings, the public sector needs to have debt.”
—————————————————————–
Where does this nonsense come from?
—-

This comes from the new ultra modern MMT thinking I believe.

#241 JonBoy on 06.19.20 at 12:27 pm

#195 Longterm on 06.19.20 at 1:52 am

Your politics and preconceived notions about human nature are blinding you to the potential. Give people UBI and watch the creative beast get unleashed.

Whichever country is the first to bring is UBI is going to have the first mover advantage of a creative tsunami that is going to be jaw dropping.

——

If that is the case, we should see a mini “creative tsunami” during this CERB period (or shortly after).
After all, households are getting UBI right now, essentially, so the effect should be there, especially since it’s been extended. Wouldn’t you agree?

Yeah, I didn’t think so. Why? Because humans are lazy, more or less, and the vast majority are doing zip, nada, zilch to do anything to improve their employability, improve their prospects or work on ideas right now.

Humans are average. The average human today will not do something amazing, special or talented because, on average, they aren’t amazing, special or talented. More to the point, the average human lacks the motivation to even attempt to do what you suggest. Most are drones and no amount of money will ever change it.

Only the smart, the talented, the courageous will EVER do what you suggest. The rest will relax in their hammock of government largesse and change nothing.

#242 Michael in-north-york on 06.19.20 at 12:31 pm

#195 Longterm on 06.19.20 at 1:52 am

Give people UBI and watch the creative beast get unleashed.
Whichever country is the first to bring is UBI is going to have the first mover advantage of a creative tsunami that is going to be jaw dropping.
—–

First, the creativity will soar. Shortly after, the prices of all staples will soar. Your monthly UBI cheque will no longer buy you enough food for the month. Or perhaps the government will have to freeze the food prices, then there will be food shortages and long lines at the groceries just to get something edible.

No first mover advantage: grossly imbalanced budgets were tried out many times in history, and the results were invariably disastrous.

#243 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.19.20 at 12:42 pm

#232 Faron on 06.19.20 at 11:56 am
#223 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 10:36 am

Who would win with a higher “living wage”?

Business owners

Ha, nice. Then why don’t they push for it?
———————–
$45 pizza is cheap.
There’s a pizza joint in Steveston that charges 80 bucks for a lobster pizza.
The Asians love it.
I agree with IHTC, paying living wages benefit everyone

#244 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 12:55 pm

In the eighties, I started working as a kid for student wage: $3.25/hr. Gas was about .45/litre

Now, student wage is 13.15/hr, gas is .95/litre

Back then, a good used car was 3000.00, it’s the same price today.

Back then, a good ratchet set was about 90.00, today a similar (or better) set is 60.00 on sale.

Car Insurance at 16 for me back then under my own name was 1969.00/yr

Car insurance today for my son under his own name is 4500.00/yr. I made 5.00/hr at 17, my son averages about 22.00/hr at 17.

Looks to me like things are getting better at the bottom of the rarnings chain, not worse.

#245 SWL on 06.19.20 at 1:08 pm

@Faron

I doubt you have ever had to make payroll either. How about you hire a 15 year old and report back on the skill set they bring to the table. They do not need to be paid a living wage as they have a home with parents or at least should, but that is a whole other topic. One for which I have plenty of compassion and understanding. Anyone with any ambition does not stay at minimum wage for long. All this living wage talk does is lower productivity and standards. You talk a big game, but my gut feels you’re fed by some sort of government dole

#246 conan on 06.19.20 at 1:14 pm

The more Covid screws things up, the more a UBI is making sense, even as just a temporary measure.

I would make it a thousand dollars a month.
Enough to eat , buy gas, and pay a few bills. The rest has to come from working.
Design the tax code so that the UBI is 100 percent recovered on incomes over 50 K.

We could centralize any and all government services that pay 1000 dollars a month, or less, to its people in the form of social services.

Might be win win.

#247 JB on 06.19.20 at 1:22 pm

#78 Sail away on 06.18.20 at 4:29 pm

#75 JB on 06.18.20 at 4:26 pm

It is not a question of Trump loses it is more of just when.

—————–

You appear to be a person who makes statements based on hope rather than logic.

I’d recommend you avoid self-directed investing.
……………………………………………………………………..
Not really I look at the stability, integrity, aptitude, rationality, acumen and honesty of a person if I was voting. Neither of those which Trump has. So based on at least say 60% of Americans scoring a composite SAT score of 1083 or more, you are above average. A 75 percentile composite SAT test score is 1215. One would hope that some of the citizens of the country is at least smart enough to know a con man when they see one. And that my friend is LOGIC. Not speculation or rainbow wishes. Me thinks America has had enough of Trumps BS, con antics, deceitfulness, racist undertones, irrational quirks, outbursts, and most amazingly his lack of knowledge about anything.
The investing thing is going well for me so now go away and worry about your own misgivings.

#248 SWL on 06.19.20 at 1:27 pm

@217 sunshowers

What do you know about how much it really cost to make pizza?

Anyways minimum wage will push all wages up or at least should. And with all this money printing going on the value of current dollars in circulation is less making my cheese cost more. Unfortunately the companies like (walmart) who have abused the minimum wage and could and can afford to pay will not. They will simply eliminate the position through automation. No more small business, no more payroll, no more UBI. Figure it out

TurnerNation said it best years ago. Flip the narrative to understand. Minimum wage really means maximum wage. Soon the rate we’re going, unless the public is fine with 45$ pizza the kid washing dishes will be making the same per hour as the owner, and when that day comes it’ll be time to close up shop. Does this sound like a working model?

#249 Tater on 06.19.20 at 1:32 pm

#242 Michael in-north-york on 06.19.20 at 12:31 pm
#195 Longterm on 06.19.20 at 1:52 am

Give people UBI and watch the creative beast get unleashed.
Whichever country is the first to bring is UBI is going to have the first mover advantage of a creative tsunami that is going to be jaw dropping.
—–

First, the creativity will soar. Shortly after, the prices of all staples will soar. Your monthly UBI cheque will no longer buy you enough food for the month. Or perhaps the government will have to freeze the food prices, then there will be food shortages and long lines at the groceries just to get something edible.

No first mover advantage: grossly imbalanced budgets were tried out many times in history, and the results were invariably disastrous.
————————————————————–

So give us an example of a disastrous outcome for a currency issuer with debt in their own currency without some sort of grave real resource constraint.

#250 Sail away on 06.19.20 at 1:38 pm

#239 SunShowers on 06.19.20 at 12:17 pm

It’s like saying that people have a right to breathe (personal freedom and all that), but no right to the oxygen in the air (entitled liberals expecting it for free?!).

——————

Correct. In the military, these people are known as ‘oxygen thieves’ because their existence causes nothing but trouble and the oxygen could be far more beneficial elsewhere.

Of course, there is some subjectivity involved.

#251 Faron on 06.19.20 at 1:39 pm

#237 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 12:15 pm
#232 Faron on 06.19.20 at 11:56 am
#223 IHCTD9 on 06.19.20 at 10:36 am

Sounds like you’re assuming all business owners care about is making money?

They’re also people with ideas and opinions.

That’s a fair point, I fall into that trap. And I can see why any increase in wage is going to be challenging to small/medium sized business.

However, as businesses scale larger, the corporation becomes beholden to equity holders and many of them only care about ROI.

#252 SeeB on 06.19.20 at 1:40 pm

@#108 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 6:19 pm
#89 Retro Marxist on 06.18.20 at 5:14 pm
Harper bailed out the banks back in 2008-09. Where is your outrage?
********************************************
Canada came into the 08/09 crisis with healthiest G7 economy and came out of it with the healthiest G7 economy (thx SH). This time? Exact opposite (thx JT)

—————————————————————–

Some would argue that the policies that resulted in our healthy economy after the credit crisis were already in place long before SH. While the government of that time certainly deserves some credit for propping up the system (like everyone else in the world did), the amount of money his government wasted on advertising “Canada’s New Government” or “Canada’s Econmic Action Plan” was abhorent. Even funnier was how much Paul Martin did the same.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/national-post-view-you-paid-for-these-ads

Now, JT does the ad game with Covid-19… Can we all please stop lionizing our own personal political tribe and look at some of the most egregious common factors shared by ALL Canadian parties?

#253 kingston boy on 06.19.20 at 1:43 pm

@#241 JonBoy on 06.19.20 at 12:27 pm
#195 Longterm on 06.19.20 at 1:52 am

Your politics and preconceived notions about human nature are blinding you to the potential. Give people UBI and watch the creative beast get unleashed.

Whichever country is the first to bring is UBI is going to have the first mover advantage of a creative tsunami that is going to be jaw dropping.

——

If that is the case, we should see a mini “creative tsunami” during this CERB period (or shortly after).
After all, households are getting UBI right now, essentially, so the effect should be there, especially since it’s been extended. Wouldn’t you agree?

Yeah, I didn’t think so. Why? Because humans are lazy, more or less, and the vast majority are doing zip, nada, zilch to do anything to improve their employability, improve their prospects or work on ideas right now.

Humans are average. The average human today will not do something amazing, special or talented because, on average, they aren’t amazing, special or talented. More to the point, the average human lacks the motivation to even attempt to do what you suggest. Most are drones and no amount of money will ever change it.

Only the smart, the talented, the courageous will EVER do what you suggest. The rest will relax in their hammock of government largesse and change nothing.
—————————–

lol, generalize much?
curious where live to come up with such a dour opinion.

#254 RyYYZ on 06.19.20 at 2:08 pm

#195 Longterm on 06.19.20 at 1:52 am

There are loads of highly motivated people to whom CERB mophing into UBI would be a huge boon to their creativity and output and ultimately benefit us all way more than wasting their time flipping burgers, packing boxes or some other inane $15-20 hour job.
================================

What percentage of people currently doing those $15-$20 jobs is “loads”?

#255 Don Guillermo on 06.19.20 at 2:20 pm

#252 SeeB on 06.19.20 at 1:40 pm
@#108 Don Guillermo on 06.18.20 at 6:19 pm

Now, JT does the ad game with Covid-19… Can we all please stop lionizing our own personal political tribe and look at some of the most egregious common factors shared by ALL Canadian parties?
***************************************

Discussing JT in the same breath as Harper, Chretien, Mulroney, Martin etc. is ludicrous. Nothing to do with political tribe. JT is the most incompetent underqualified PM ever in Canadian history.

#256 Blacksheep on 06.19.20 at 2:28 pm

Tater #235,

“Government creates money, government spending puts it into the economy, taxes take it out of the economy. Can you agree that is true?”
————————-
Yes….but that’s not where the bulk of $ creation comes from.

You, I’m sure already now this, but I’ll remind you anyways, based on your comment.

BoE pdf circa 2014:

chrome extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf?la=en&hash=9A8788FD44A62D8BB927123544205CE476E01654

Quote:

“Broad money is made up of bank deposits — which are essentially IOUs from commercial banks to households and companies — and currency — mostly IOUs from the central bank.(4)(5)Of the two types of broad money,”

“bank deposits make up the vast majority — 97% of the amount currently in circulation.(6)And in the modern economy, those bank deposits are mostly created by commercial banks themselves.”
—————————
Where the hell is Shawn and why isn’t he looking after this?

#257 JonBoy on 06.19.20 at 4:43 pm

#253 kingston boy on 06.19.20 at 1:43 pm

lol, generalize much?
curious where live to come up with such a dour opinion.

—–

Ever met a business owner? Ever met someone that has built something from the ground up? Ever meet an inventor? They are not average people. They possess an inner drive, a will to succeed, a level of commitment that is far beyond what most people have. Intelligence helps a lot as well. Most (90%?) fail within 5 years. Almost all (95%) don’t make it to 10 years. It ain’t because it’s easy, that’s for sure…

The average person is, by definition, average. “Average” is, by definition, a generalization – it covers a moderately broad range.

Consider that the AVERAGE person has an IQ of 100. Ever met someone with an IQ of 100? They have very few standout qualities, with business creation and ownership being rather low on the list. An occasional one might come up with something but they’re not noted as regular contributors to new inventions or “creative tsunamis”, as you put it. The best of them will be quite good in one area of training or natural ability and slightly below average in a few others (hence, the overall “average” IQ). Hence, drones.

Not only that, but having a great idea is only the first step. You need some real skill, and a fair bit of luck, to take that to a life-supporting income level, especially if it’s something new (as you seemed to indicate, referencing a “creative tsunami”).

Let’s make this simple: what have you come up with during your time on CERB? Please share with us your grandiose plans to turn your spring cash influx into self-supporting income by way of a self-induced creative tsunami?