Scott and Lisa run a four-person home reno business. Twenty-four years now. All was peachy until the virus came to town. Actually, until the CERB came to Canada. The two F/T employees asked to be temporarily laid off, so they could get an extra two grand a month. Scott objected. Big fight. The guys quit. The enterprise was crippled.
Carson says he started reading this pathetic blog four months ago, and passes on this tidbit from Victoria:
I figured I’d share with you that we are desperately seeking employees in our warehouse and we offer a great compensation package for an entry level job, $19 an hour plus a $3 dollar an hour bonus paid monthly if you show up for all your shifts, plus benefits. We’ve had the job postings for 3 weeks and have only received a couple applicants. Turns out other business owners are experiencing much the same in my area. The highest levels of unemployment ever and lots of places hiring, yet no one wants to work. Covid-19 isn’t killing our business, having no one in our area who wants a job is killing our business.
Thanks, CERB. It’s interesting what happens when you pay people not to work.
Here’s Steve in Vancouver. With a little tale about his 15-year-old daughter and the desperation now being experienced in the restaurant business.
She’s been sitting in front of a screen for two months and finally lost her marbles last Saturday. So we went down to Granville Island and I suggested we go to a well known restaurant for brunch. They had just opened and the servers were suited up with masks and we had to follow all kinds of procedures……like moving our dishes to the edge of the table so the server cannot get too close to our germs.
So our daughter comes back from the bathroom and says ‘hey guys I saw a sign on the wall in there that says they are hiring here, are you OK if I talk with the manager right now? We say yes and within minutes she has a business card and an application. We go home and help her get it in right away. Tuesday she gets the call for a Thursday interview and we get her down there. She is back in 15 minutes with her first job…..as a hostess that will lead to server (and tips)…..and she starts in two weeks as soon as school ends. She told them she was willing to start out washing dishes, but no, they said, we need you out front. She learns that much of the staff turned over and they are desperate. By the way, I have a friend who has two teens on the CERB, sitting at home.
Says Joanne in eastern Ontario, where she and Jim run a small business struggling to survive: “CERB was offered and given fairly freely to everyone who asked, basically on honor system, or did we miss something? As Jim said to me, take the average employee making more at home on CERB and asking to be laid off/refusing and see if they want to fight like we are to stay alive and employ people. How did the government not see this coming?”
Well, more than 8.33 million people filed 15.18 applications for CERB money. As of a few days ago more than $43.5 billion had been shovelled out the door to these folks – and it’s not even the middle of June yet. The payments are slated to last 16 weeks per person, and can extend right into October. Moreover, the Trudeau gang is under pressure to extend the benefits even longer.
Ottawa originally budgeted $35 billion for CERB. It’s now 25% over budget so the Liberals have earmarked $60 billion for the program – which will propel it 70% above the original amount.
Yup. It’s interesting what happens when you pay people not to work. Some don’t.
Because the government turned the economy off, it was ethical to compensate those impacted. As you know, the CERB gives $2,000 a month to anyone who claims to be virus-impacted, including looking after kids because the day care place closed. To qualify for total of $8,000, a person need have had an income of only $5,000 in the previous 12 months, or a thousand in a four-week period. Folks whose EI ran out could also claim it. And apparently many who are being paid by their employers through the federal payroll-subsidy program have been pocketing CERB. This week Trudeau warned the CRA will be working to ferret out fraudsters, but double-dippers who ‘made an honest mistake’ will just have to pay the extra back. Next year. Voluntarily.
Is this just the start? How does the government turn this money off? Will this lead to that UBI, giving everybody a base income?
On Wednesday the indie Parliamentary Budget Office published a costing of extending the CERB to January, expanding the benefit period to 6 months, then gradually phasing out the payments as employment income clicks in (CERB would reduce by fifty cents for every dollar earned). That, says the PBO, would cost Ottawa an extra $64 billion. For the sake of comparison, sending OAS payments of $600 a month to six million seniors requires $38 billion annually. To run the army, navy and air force costs $20 billion per year. So doling out the CERB to eight million for less than twelve months at a cost of $125 billion is, well, off the charts.
Now imagine extending a UBI to the entire workforce – about 19 million people. Pressure is mounting for this to occur. The kids want it. Thanks to Covid, we have a taste of this nectar. Intoxicating, and toxic.
About the picture: “I took this in Vancouver,” says Bruno, “and thought you might like it. Thanks for your great blog.”
265 comments ↓
same here, our assistant won’t come in more than one day a week, so that she can keep collecting CREB. We don’t want to push too hard because she could easily quit and it’s annoying to re-hire and train, even for a no-brainer job.
Some people definitely needed it when things were completely shut down but people should get back to work now. How can the gov enforce it?
I get why adults supporting a family may need CERB, but why 15 year old kids who are supported by their parents?
If the Trudeau regime spends all of the future’s money on providing additional income to unscrupulous contractors and teenagers, where will he find the extra money to fund the Offices of Inquisition to combat the systemic racism that seeps through every part of our society, and therefore also the current government by the very vague definitions of systemic racism…?
Will Trudeau defund his own government and the RCMP, since they are the principle enforcers of systemic and structural racism?
He’s performed a wonderful theatrical act of bending the knee, now comes time for the action that will matter most.
Mr. Trudeau, de-fund the horse police, definitely the Senate, and dissolve parliament in favour of democracy via street violence and vandalism.
I have been collecting the CERB and I like it! It’s true, I’m making more a month now, then when I was working, so that’s a bonus. But hey, I qualified and my industry is still shut for the foreseeable future, so don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Incompetence thy name is “Selfie Boy”
We are all in this together
LOL
The taxpayer funded employees working from home
The front-line employees been working since the whole hoax started usually no pension and no benefits
…. that’s the elephant in the room
I think its fairly hilarious to hear people gloating about collecting CERB because “I was making less beforehand”.
If you’re past 25 and still making less than $2000 a month, you are probably a failure.
Well, from the engineering side, government design contracts continue full-force, construction continues, and we’re hoping to hear this week on a huge proposal submitted a few weeks ago.
No engineers want to sit around on CERB. We just hired three engineers last week- 2 entry-level, one 8 years experience.
I’m actually almost too busy. Let’s see… 7 hours of work, 3 hours for this website, 2 hours dog training, 2 hours portfolio… might have to delegate and go to 5 hours work. Maybe less time on the portfolio since honestly, I mostly just look at it and chortle.
A UBI is probably inevitable at this point. People like it and will vote for it.
This is just the end stage of a democracy. We’re in the apathy/dependency stage of the Turner cycle. Justin Trudeau will be PM for a long long time.
#8 Sail away on 06.09.20 at 4:23 pm
Tesla- wow.
////////////////
If and when Tesla sells so many cars that they become commonplace that’s when people will no longer desire one because every one has one.
“it’s so popular that no one goes there anymore”
CRA has already looked into 30000 CERB claims, just another 8.3 million to go. Let’s pick up the pace agents. We need this wrapped up no later than 2025.
@#2 BoredBear on 06.10.20 at 9:53 am
I get why adults supporting a family may need CERB, but why 15 year old kids who are supported by their parents?
———-
Likely their parents encouraged them to apply for it. Society is going morally bankrupt, aided by most including big companies and government turning a blind eye to it in the name of political correctness.
There are almost no consequences for laziness, larceny, lying and every other societal ill that appalled previous generations. A ‘free pass’ is available for everyone and anyone for whatever disaster occurs, despite the origins often being self inflicted.
This is the ‘change’ we have been warned about repeatedly by certain blog posters. “Be part of it or be run over by it’, or some such nonsense.
The only cure is excision of the rot. Removal. Call it a ‘divorce’. Just give us some little bit of territory where we can govern ourselves and let the lumpen run their opportunities into the ground elsewhere.
Kind of like this business of ‘stop funding the police’, except we’ll just stop funding the grifters & fraudsters.
It’s only 8:45 am and I can already breathe in the delicious air of REVOLUTION! When I hear the word democracy I know I need to reach for my pistol!
Now for some cornflakes….
#10 Penny Henny on 06.10.20 at 10:38 am
#8 Sail away on 06.09.20 at 4:23 pm
Tesla- wow.
——————-
If and when Tesla sells so many cars that they become commonplace that’s when people will no longer desire one because every one has one.
“it’s so popular that no one goes there anymore”
——————-
Yes, well.
Some people might be interested in Ford’s new contraption but I’ll stick with my Percherons, thank you.
A mobile phone that can take pictures? That’s just silly.
Interesting read
http://nautil.us/blog/let-game-theory-tell-you-when-its-time-to-go-shopping
Now I feel like an idiot for not taking advantage of this interest-free loan the government was offering. I could have invested the money and then paid them back when they asked for it.
The Genie is out of the bottle. Incentive is gone. Re-election is assured. We are socialists now.
#3 Unhinged Trader on 06.10.20 at 10:04 am
If the Trudeau regime spends all of the future’s money on providing additional income to unscrupulous contractors and teenagers, where will he find the extra money to fund the Offices of Inquisition to combat the systemic racism that seeps through every part of our society, and therefore also the current government by the very vague definitions of systemic racism…?
Will Trudeau defund his own government and the RCMP, since they are the principle enforcers of systemic and structural racism?
He’s performed a wonderful theatrical act of bending the knee, now comes time for the action that will matter most.
Mr. Trudeau, de-fund the horse police, definitely the Senate, and dissolve parliament in favour of democracy via street violence and vandalism.
******************************************
When we talk about people being born on third base and white privilege (people of all races can be born on third base but I digress) T2 was born with an automatic out of the park homerun. How else can someone with no credentials and weak academics become leader of a nation? Birthright and very stupid voters. The results are underwhelming.
The logic behind this doesn’t make sense. CERB is taxable, so people are wanting to get $24,000/yr to sit at home and do nothing instead of working and getting *at least* $28,000/yr? That’s based on Ontario’s minimum wage of $14/hr – full time hours. CERB is great for people who are out of work, but it’s still a poverty wage. I can’t imagine people intentionally collecting it instead of working to make a decent living.
I listened to Jagmeet Singh on an interview with CBC News about the legislation to weed out fraudsters…
He started talking about Loblaws legally sheltering 300million offshore and calling it disgusting that governments would then go after people who, on a technicality, claimed CERB because they only made 4900/year.
I find his comments disgusting, because the interviewer asked if he would be supportive of a different measure that address his concerns… or if he really is saying we should dole out another 40billion in CERB.
It’s not free money NDPers!
I lived in Victoria for 2 years. 19$ jobs are a dime a dozen. Problem is rent for a one bedroom is $1400 and rising. Add in a cellphone, internet and food and your lucky if you break even at the end of the month. The system is broken a single adult in their prime working age should be able to bank 50 percent of their take home pay to save for a down payment etc. When one is barely breaking even while working full time there is something wrong. Alot of people are simply choosing not too… They are broke whether they work or not. Might as well not it’s not like the jobs are very interesting or rewarding.
I think structurally we’re dealing with too much debt in the economy and too much legacy cost. Youth 20-35 aren’t dumb. We see that and alot of workers are exiting. Why busy my ass for a standard of living that is 30 percent of what it used to be. Wait for the system to reset, save my energy for when it makes sense. I think a doubling of salaries and a 50 percent cut in real estate would bring the system back into balance.
Prob not going to happen. This will be a long term inter generational struggle.
#9 Jeff
Justin Trudeau will be PM for a long long time.
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I fear this is true. The idea disturbs even more than the prospect of another four years of Trump.
Until I see large-scale statistics that show CERB is preventing workforce participation, I take this all with a grain of confirmation bias flavoured salt. To the extent it is a problem, raise wages. Generally, sitting on your arse all day is boring AF and people want to work. Here in Vic, for example, the entry level labour supply may simply have moved away (UVic is closed for the foreseeable) and tourism is kaput.
I’m open minded to stats. Not so much to anecdote.
I am sure you all read the news this morning 190,000 people repaid CERB. Now that was based on T2 threat. which by the way The dippers oppose, so don’t vote NDP. When this threat gets traction I bet one million or more defrauded the government. So get back to work, and to all employers stop whining and call the 1 800 hot line it’s your civic duty.
So anyone who lives in BC I am starting a federal political party not to separate, but to get a voice in Parliament for BC persons and BC issues. Seems to work for Quebec.
Good thing they legalize pot, now everyone can stay home on gov poggy and smoke up – they’ll never want to work again!
They can put their new found wealth towards Chase the Ace tickets, that will get them ready for round 2
I guarantee they will extend the CERB indefinitely
Canada is richer than they think so we can afford it!
#13 Sail Away on 06.10.20 at 10:52 am
#10 Penny Henny on 06.10.20 at 10:38 am
#8 Sail away on 06.09.20 at 4:23 pm
I despise Elon’s arrogance. Despite that, I have to admit that Tesla is the iPhone making all other cars look like BlackBerries. I’d consider one except:
–I’ll never pay more than $6000 for a car
–They aren’t as practical as a beater toyota that you can bang up logging roads in and not worry/care.
I’d still be plenty concerned about the portion of the stock price that’s due to unfounded retail spec and fanboyism. I’d wage that the value of the stock is in the neighbourhood of $400.
It shows you do not understand how to live, if you look back all generations people shared accommodations.
So stop whining get a room mate
As for cell phones yep you young people make me laugh I make over 70,000 a year and I bought a second hand phone, yet most people in their 20s buy new cell phones costing $1,000 bucks. And the other day the RCMP reported a pair of running shoes stolen, guess what the price was ……drum roll please……..$1,000 yes that’s not a typo. Who the hell buys 1,000 dollar shoes, yep under 30. And you whine about money? Can you guess why I am angry? So what’s the answer?
So Garth I am fed up paying taxes so bums can live better than me. I am fed up with billionaires hiding money off shore. We need a voice. But no one is listening. In the end people like me will pay more taxes. So much for working hard and saving money just to have it all taxed.
#23 CBC News today on 06.10.20 at 11:39 am
So anyone who lives in BC I am starting a federal political party not to separate, but to get a voice in Parliament for BC persons and BC issues. Seems to work for Quebec.
…………………………………
Sign me up. Do you have a website?
#9 Jeff on 06.10.20 at 10:36 am
Justin Trudeau will be PM for a long long time.
—————————————————————
Now that is a thoroughly depressing thought to start the day.
#21 Damifino on 06.10.20 at 11:28 am
#9 Jeff
Justin Trudeau will be PM for a long long time.
————————————–
I fear this is true. The idea disturbs even more than the prospect of another four years of Trump.
…………………………………………
As long as he can keep buying the 32% of votes that got him elected he will be PM. The other 68% of us who did not vote for him can pound sand and eat the free cake.
Starbucks is closing 200 locations in Canada.
People can’t afford a $6.00 coffee but are lining up in Toronto to buy 1.3 million dollar shacks.
I don’t get it…..
#23 CBC News today on 06.10.20 at 11:39 am
I am sure you all read the news this morning 190,000 people repaid CERB. Now that was based on T2 threat. which by the way The dippers oppose, so don’t vote NDP. When this threat gets traction I bet one million or more defrauded the government. So get back to work, and to all employers stop whining and call the 1 800 hot line it’s your civic duty.
So anyone who lives in BC I am starting a federal political party not to separate, but to get a voice in Parliament for BC persons and BC issues. Seems to work for Quebec.
**************************************
Good luck with that. BC is just as divided as Canada. VI and LML vs ROBC (except for those nasty dippers in the Kootenays).
It shouldn’t be hard for anyone with a grade 7 education to calculate how long Canada could dole out UBI or CERB before running out of “money”.
What are we looking at, 5 years, 25? (I dropped out in grade 6).
And then the question is: what happens then?
I foresee the good times ahead.
“Good morning everyone, your co-PM’s Saint’s Henry and Tam here (Hallowed be our Names). So ya, we spent everything on that UBI experiment, no one will lend us anymore, our bonds are less than junk, our oil almost worthless, and our Mint’s gold long gone.
And although there are no jobs, y’all gotta get to back to work. It’s fun to protest every thing that ever happened in history, but we need to eat. So…a truck will swing by to pick you up for your 12 hour shift at the communal farms. If we can keep those production numbers up, President Ivanka has promised to be kind in the land title transfer negotiations for the West.”
There are no coffers to drain in Canada.
UBI wouldn’t last no matter how high they crank taxes. Diminishing returns. Cash only. Black markets. Bartering. A return to the value of labour, of men. Good times.
Fear of this experiment, while fun to imagine, are imaginary.
Let’s go back in time 1958
My parents bought a house for $16,000 both had jobs, my mother a nurse made $7.50 a day my father a labourer $8.00 both had to moonlight to pay the mortgage. My father own a third hand car that was so rusted he had to put licence plates in the floor boards to stop getting wet.
Never whined or complained as that’s the way it was.
Never demanded universal income or housing prices were to high. If you wanted something you saved your money and incurred no debt other than a mortgage.
You did not buy anything but food and clothes. My father had three pairs of pants two for work and an old pair for relaxing. He exercised in the bedroom.
We had an open window and a fan for air conditioning.
Life was tough but we were all happy with what we had
Think about life and be grateful.
@20 Kiril;
I know – an old fart comment – when I was younger, there was nothing wrong with a bunch of guys renting a place, even if they had ad-hoc divisions in rooms.
Back when I was a teenager, having a place with brothers, sisters, parents, spouses, etc all living together was not out of the ordinary.
My first one-bedroom apartment would have not been possible on ’80s minimum or close wage, but I’d got a great paying job so could afford it. Yes, it was great having my own place, even if there was about zero furniture in it.
Didn’t have a car until a year or two later, though, as my mother upgraded and sold me (yes, $$$ changed hands) her old but great car. The city bus was fine to get to/from work, but the car was “more convenient”.
There’s always ways to make something work; if it does not work out, chalk it up to learning something.
Gee, people would rather sit on their asses than work to collect a similar amount of money? Quelle surprise.
That’s not to even mention the ones that are working under the table while they collect this dole.
I used to be someone who believed in paying my share of taxes to pay for the services and infrastructure we all enjoy. I don’t begrudge welfare/disability payments to those that really need them.
But at this point I feel the government has, and will increasingly in the future, abused hard working financially responsible people, while bailing out if not outright rewarding the irresponsible, cheaters, lazy, etc.
And no, I’m not saying everyone drawing CERB (or EI, or welfare) are are lazy, irresponsible cheaters. But if you create a system ripe for abuse, you can’t be surprised if it gets heavily abused.
#3 Unhinged Trader on 06.10.20 at 10:04 am
Trudeau does not have to do anything, the Virtue Signal and emotion is all these people can handle, their brains are so addled by the technology distractions they have in hand , it is just a series of serotonin rushes each moment, no long term thinking, no asking how.
I once did a talk for a large group of Teachers on Technology; I simply infused the talk with “blue-sky” science fiction visons of student directed learning tools and emotion, it was a hit. My session partner, a practical engineer type was gob smacked, he was concerned with how we could do that, how we could pay for it and various other real world actual problems.
I realized a certain mindset is not concerned with detail, just emotion, positive vision, signal virtue that you are part of the same mindset and you win them over, take a knee. Shed a tear, accept the claim of genocide – it is just a show. They will never follow up to see if you can actually do what you said…some other cause (shiny object) will distract them.
Today’s blog post illustrates why I would never vote for UBI. No surprise that many who applied for CERB were not the intended target audience (see blog for those who were working but quit). Second, why even mention going after CERB ‘cheats’ if the money need only be paid back on – heaven help us – the ‘honor’ system? Hello? In what universe does one expect that those who have already gamed the system for a benefit they should not have applied for in the first place to suddenly act with ‘honor’? If they felt no shame in cheating the system in the first place, they are hardly likely to suddenly find a conscience & pay back the money they should not have taken in the first place.
Our son continues to work, yet he has told us of other 20 somethings who collect CERB, as it is more than they make while working in their minimum wage J O B.
Good to hear about employers who are raising the hourly wages they pay employees.
Bravo to those of us who hustle to make a buck, as it feels much better than sitting on our butts all day.
Maybe some on CERB need to get out from under their parent’s wings & get a taste of the real world?
Oh no!
“Starbucks to close up to 200 stores in Canada even after COVID-19”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/starbucks-earnings-canada-1.5605902
Where will all the milenials go this summer to waste their time and CERB money?
They’ll be stuck at home or in the park, ordering curbside deliveries and coming to this blog!
Garth, you gotta put up a firewall or something!
#26 Faron on 06.10.20 at 11:55 am
I despise Elon’s arrogance. Despite that, I have to admit that Tesla is the iPhone making all other cars look like BlackBerries. I’d consider one except:
–I’ll never pay more than $6000 for a car
–They aren’t as practical as a beater toyota that you can bang up logging roads in and not worry/care.
I’d still be plenty concerned about the portion of the stock price that’s due to unfounded retail spec and fanboyism. I’d wage that the value of the stock is in the neighbourhood of $400.
—————–
Ok. Up 8% to its all-time high today, or put another way, if I chose to realize today’s bump, it would pay cap gains plus buy a 2-3 yo Toyota 4Runner.
But sure, stick with your $6,000 beater. I’ll give you a ride out when it breaks down, although you might have to ride in the back with the dogs and open the gates. Heck, I’ll even give you some $ for a bus ticket home. Do unto others, you know?
I have TSLA in an ETF somewhere and it’s done great. I’m not going to turn up my nose at those gains. Any more than I’ll not take profit from the Fed pumping money in like there’s no end to it.
But I admit I am absolutely baffled at the valuation. Tesla is a horrible company financially and Musk is no visionary, although a very good salesman. Albeit more in the huckster vein of Branson than Jobs. The cars are bland and the build quality is legendarily poor. My sister and hubby have a 3 and it just does nothing for me. A neat toy but even with the subsidies not worth the premium.
The concept of Starlink is horrific, bathing the earth in broadband internet. I’m sure the Twitterati out in the wilderness might like it, but talk about a solution in search of a problem. Given the pushback against 5G it’ll be interesting to watch the backlash against a constellation of unnecessary junk circling the globe. If they want it to have the slightest chance of succeeding they better figure out how to combine build quality with high production volumes.
Still, I hope the smoke and mirrors will continue as long as possible.
It is happening in whistler too….I feel as though generation z kids are coming into work these days with no determination and they are some of the laziest people I’ve ever had to train. Of course they are gonna take cerb over working especially when they are making more!
#34 Putting things in context
You and I are probably about the same age. I also have dozens of historical anecdotes about simpler times when people had to be innovative and make do with less.
My father had dozens of such stories too. I couldn’t have cared less about any of his. Today, nobody under 60 could care less about any of mine.
That is the context.
Guess who gets hired after the shamanic is over and the free money spigot is turned off? Not the lazies who refused work to stay home and watch Netflix and smoke Government sanctioned pot.
#20 Kiril on 06.10.20 at 11:28 am
I lived in Victoria for 2 years. 19$ jobs are a dime a dozen. Problem is rent for a one bedroom is $1400 and rising. Add in a cellphone, internet and food and your lucky if you break even at the end of the month. The system is broken a single adult in their prime working age should be able to bank 50 percent of their take home pay to save for a down payment etc. When one is barely breaking even while working full time there is something wrong. Alot of people are simply choosing not too… They are broke whether they work or not. Might as well not it’s not like the jobs are very interesting or rewarding.
I think structurally we’re dealing with too much debt in the economy and too much legacy cost. Youth 20-35 aren’t dumb. We see that and alot of workers are exiting. Why busy my ass for a standard of living that is 30 percent of what it used to be. Wait for the system to reset, save my energy for when it makes sense. I think a doubling of salaries and a 50 percent cut in real estate would bring the system back into balance.
Prob not going to happen. This will be a long term inter generational struggle.
________________________________________________
This is bang on! One of my own kids is close to graduating university in a medical related field (physical therapy) stated to me not too long ago she is not considering offers to stay in Canada. “Living in Canada is a suckers life” were her words if I remember correctly. Why would anyone go to university for 5 or 6 years and then consider offers that pay only marginally better than minimum wage? It’s really pathetic that Canadian wages have stagnated the way they have.
I was fortunate enough to have worked overseas in tax free regions for years. I was blown away moving back to Canada how much of a haircut I took on my take home pay, with tax and all the other deductions, it amounted to more than 50%. I’m making only a few $ more than I did 25 years ago BEFORE I moved overseas.
It’s ironic that we moved back to Canada to give our kids the “Canadian” experience for their teenage / high school years and now that they’re nearly out of university and educated, they have no intention of staying, and they’re absolutely making the right decision.
#12 the Jaguar it’s by design. The movement lay dormant then was co-opted, dare I say weaponized – like everything else – for today’s global take over.
(By the way a current City of Toronto councillor used to head the Communist Party in their home town. This is right from their Wikipedia page. )
It’s all right in front of us, the leader of current movement we see on TV, Blm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Garza
” She describes herself as a Marxist”
—-
Re. Tesla from yesterday. GM had an amazing EV over 20 years ago. Imagine how advanced it would be after another 20 years of development!! Nope said the globalists. Electric cars were first used over 100 years ago! We’re talking 1900. 100 years of “progress”…and we get 300 mile ranges. Sure…pass the telegraph machine I’ve got to order a pizza.
http://www.ev1.org/
“The NiMH EV1 had an EPA certified range of 140 miles on a charge; none of the EV1 lessees complained about the range. ”
“The General Motors EV1 was an electric car produced and leased by General Motors from 1996 to 1999.[6] It was the first mass-produced and purpose-designed electric vehicle of the modern era from a major automaker”
The ‘economy’ (read mindless consumption on credit) is in coma according to our fancy sox PM and major players are leaving:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/starbucks-may-close-up-to-200-stores-in-canada-by-2022-152858020.html
But hey, the housing ‘market’ will keep going up due to some more restrictive mortgage actions by CMHC.
This place has gone full retard.
Cheers,
Do people realize, when they talk about making more money on CERB that it’s a pre-taxed amount? After you remove the 30% everyone is recommending you hold back, you make $1,400 a month. You might get some of that back but you still have to be ready to pay your income tax.
CERB averages $11.50 per hour. That’s less the our current minimum wage.
Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t think I am…
$19 an hour is ridiculously low! Here in Oakville, high school students who tutor or offer swimming lessons in the summer typically make $35 an hour or more. They don’t go working for $19/hour.
Would anyone here work for $19/hr? You can’t survive with that in Canada especially if you have university fees or looking to buy a home.
Trudeau is never going to claw back any of this money so many take fraudulently. How is he going to prove that someone didn’t have any child care so they had to stay home, etc? He can’t.
I’ve said it before, but will say it again (to add to the examples Garth stated above) – CERB is ruining businesses. I know FIRST HAND it’s affecting 2 industries – Restaurants and Industrial worksites that require safety personnel. The Social Hall down the street from my inlaws can’t convince half their old employees to come back to work, so they’ve hired a fresh batch, all green, resulting in terrible service. And b/c they’re all so green, the owners are overstaffing and taking advantage of the 75% wage subsidy.
The second is my employers – I work at a big industrial plantsite. Like many in the area, every spring/summer we hire thousands of contractors to come in to perform shutdown maintenance work. Many of these tasks require low-level paid safety man/bottlewatch services. One safety company had 39 of these employees scheduled to start a shutdown a couple weeks ago… 6 showed up! The rest said they’d rather have a paid vacation all summer. The havoc this wreaks on the schedule (which gets planned for 6-12months) is devastating.
#20 Kiril on 06.10.20 at 11:28 am
I lived in Victoria for 2 years. 19$ jobs are a dime a dozen. Problem is rent for a one bedroom is $1400 and rising. Add in a cellphone, internet and food and your lucky if you break even at the end of the month. The system is broken a single adult in their prime working age should be able to bank 50 percent of their take home pay to save for a down payment etc. When one is barely breaking even while working full time there is something wrong. Alot of people are simply choosing not too… They are broke whether they work or not. Might as well not it’s not like the jobs are very interesting or rewarding.
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#46 TheDood on 06.10.20 at 12:53 pm
This is bang on! One of my own kids is close to graduating university in a medical related field (physical therapy) stated to me not too long ago she is not considering offers to stay in Canada. “Living in Canada is a suckers life” were her words if I remember correctly. Why would anyone go to university for 5 or 6 years and then consider offers that pay only marginally better than minimum wage? It’s really pathetic that Canadian wages have stagnated the way they have.
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100% this. Garth, I know you want to elude to a narrative that the majority on the benefit are just lazy sponges living on the dole (“Thanks, CERB. It’s interesting what happens when you pay people not to work”), but how do you ignore the fat elephant in the room?
When rent on an old and crappy one-bedroom is 1400/mo., and other bills are climbing relentlessly, who wouldn’t just hold tight in their current situation and take the risk on spending their energy looking for something better than $39K/year?
Yeah, you can argue those jobs might not be there come September, and that’s a real concern, but as folks have demonstrated with mortgages and stocks, they think they can “time the job market”, regardless of how bad or risky that strategy is.
Once the benefit starts winding down, you’ll see a lot more people vying for that musical chair, but for now,
#34 Putting things in context on 06.10.20 at 12:20 pm
Let’s go back in time 1958
My parents bought a house for $16,000 both had jobs, my mother a nurse made $7.50 a day my father a labourer $8.00 both had to moonlight to pay the mortgage. My father own a third hand car that was so rusted he had to put licence plates in the floor boards to stop getting wet.
Never whined or complained as that’s the way it was.
Never demanded universal income or housing prices were to high. If you wanted something you saved your money and incurred no debt other than a mortgage.
You did not buy anything but food and clothes. My father had three pairs of pants two for work and an old pair for relaxing. He exercised in the bedroom.
We had an open window and a fan for air conditioning.
Life was tough but we were all happy with what we had
Think about life and be grateful.
——————————————————————
Whoa. That was luxury compared to our family.
Kiril (post 20) will vote for Trudeau.
…and Trudeau will let foreign interests buy the whole damn place up…
Kiril should learn some new foreign languages now . He will then be better positioned to please the people that will crush his generation into the ground with disguised communism. Please get used to living with a quarter of the living space you have.
#27 To Kiril number 20 on 06.10.20 at 11:57 am
It shows you do not understand how to live, if you look back all generations people shared accommodations.
So stop whining get a room mate
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I think you are missing the entire point. Kids today are plugged in and they are smart. Its not about sharing an apartment, room mate whateva
They are opting out of a system that doesnt work for them Is that so hard to see? Why was “bank of mom” petty much the only way to get in when previous gens wasnt really needed? Cradle to grave employment with a high school diploma.
Roll up Parry Sound, Port Loring way.. tons of old cottagers from “the hammer” Hamilton ON Retired Steel guys.. wife, kids, home, cottage.. worked hourly at a steel mill.
“They are broke whether they work or not. Might as well not” triple wow and well said
I’ve got nothing against folks taking the CERB. Once it is phased out they will be part of the base paying back everything anyway. The normal course of events is that companies are bailed out and taxpayers foot the bill. This is the first time anything substantial has been done to include taxpayers in these types of solutions. It’ll soon end. Let them enjoy it while it lasts.
This post is on point and, many of us have pointed out the monster that Trudeau has released upon us for weeks now. In a swift stroke to deal with a phantom menace – they have dismantled the economy. Those who want to work are going to carry a tax burden that is still not completely into focus – but its going to be bad.
The leftists did a great job here of building up their voting base for the next election. People, universally, will take the path of least resistance. Truly understood, “money” is the value of human effort. Nothing more. As the effort declines into arrogant laziness it also kills the ambitious and demoralizes them with withering effect.
This experiment already failed in countless societies: USSR, Venezuela, European Union….it is cultural genocide because the end result is an insolvent bureaucracy that can no longer function stability for the citizens.
I know you are anything but a “tin foil hat” gentlemen but, is it truly beyond contesting that this has been deliberately set upon us?
#31 looking up on 06.10.20 at 12:05 pm
Starbucks is closing 200 locations in Canada.
People can’t afford a $6.00 coffee but are lining up in Toronto to buy 1.3 million dollar shacks.
I don’t get it…..
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The people buying those shacks represent a much smaller segment of the population than what is needed to sustain a business on the scale of Starbucks. I wouldn’t doubt if some of those current property folks are agents for existing real estate rackets thinking they can score a deal.
The more wealth that’s concentrated in the hands of a few, the more the economy at large is going to slow. Brief explanation about the link between income inequality and velocity of money:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/just-another-post-income-inequality-2017-04-21
Once again, Distancing is the greatest Economic tool/weapon every developed. It will NOT be going away until much more of the New System is rolled out.
We are living WW3 – fought on multiple fronts: social, economic, family, health, mind (social media).
We are all bio weapons now, 6 feet apart globally. There’s nowhere to run they got us all lined up.
Our elite rulers are roaring with laughter from their private islands.
A.I. slowly taking over, the article says it’s to practice Distancing. But it’s all temporary right?!?!
“www.theverge.com › restaurant-netherlands-robot-waiters-social-dista…
May 31, 2020 – The red-and-white robots will greet customers, serve food and pick up used dishes from diners’ tables at the Royal Palace restaurant in the …
In the Netherlands, robot waiters will serve customers amid …www.ctvnews.ca › sci-tech › in-the-netherlands-robot-waiters-will-serve-…
May 29, 2020 – A restaurant in the Netherlands is planning on using robots as servers as … daughter Leah, who also works at the restaurant, the Royal Palace.”
#46 TheDood on 06.10.20 at 12:53 pm
This is Canada now:
“A man must always live by his work, and his wages must at least be sufficient to maintain him. They must even upon most occasions be somewhat more; otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family, and the race of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.” – Adam Smith
Sad that some might measure opportunity costs and see that not working for $2K a month is better than working for what is actually available in Canada now. No living wage in this Country anymore:
– Globalization
– Outsourcing
– Offshoring
– Mass immigration
– Technology\Automation
The race to the bottom in wages and therefore opportunity and standard of living.
All preventable with a long term economic strategy\vision and the right structure of the market.
I’ve been working in the same trade since 1982, after 7 weeks on CERB I jumped at the chance to go back to work. The employer called us all back, however 2 of 3 guys that are 30 and 31 years of age told the boss they wanted to stay on CERB “until it ran out” or “they didn’t feel safe at work”. The guys that didn’t come back still live at home with their parents. The 28 year old that is back at work has his own rental apt and car payment.
M57BC
#3 Unhinged Trader on 06.10.20 at 10:04 am
#19 bob on 06.10.20 at 11:19 am
These guys said it best:
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.” – Yeats
“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. Even those of the intelligent who believe that they have a nostrum are too individualistic to combine with other intelligent men from whom they differ on minor points.” Bertrand Russell – “The Triumph of Stupidity”
Federal Government forgot the universal 10/10/80 rule. Ten percent of people are honest, ten percent are dishonest and 80% are opportunistic.
We also know numerous folks sitting home declining work and enjoying their paid vacation.
#7 blogshark
I think its fairly hilarious to hear people gloating about collecting CERB because “I was making less beforehand”.
If you’re past 25 and still making less than $2000 a month, you are probably a failure.
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Yup. And who do you think are cheering for UBI? It’s definitely not those who are making a decent living already.
#20 Kiril on 06.10.20 at 11:28 am
I lived in Victoria for 2 years. 19$ jobs are a dime a dozen. Problem is rent for a one bedroom is $1400 and rising. Add in a cellphone, internet and food and your lucky if you break even at the end of the month. The system is broken a single adult in their prime working age should be able to bank 50 percent of their take home pay to save for a down payment etc. When one is barely breaking even while working full time there is something wrong. Alot of people are simply choosing not too… They are broke whether they work or not. Might as well not it’s not like the jobs are very interesting or rewarding.
I think structurally we’re dealing with too much debt in the economy and too much legacy cost. Youth 20-35 aren’t dumb. We see that and alot of workers are exiting. Why busy my ass for a standard of living that is 30 percent of what it used to be. Wait for the system to reset, save my energy for when it makes sense. I think a doubling of salaries and a 50 percent cut in real estate would bring the system back into balance.
Prob not going to happen. This will be a long term inter generational struggle.
==================================================
Your post doesn’t make much sense. Minimum-wage jobs are entry-level into a field, only requiring the lower level of skill and experience that younger workers have. That’s why 20’s is not “prime working age”, that’s usually considered 40’s and 50’s.
I am not unsympathetic to those on modest wages, but minimum wage is just that: the bottom of the scale. It usually correlates to unskilled work by inexperienced workers aka younger workers. I guess moving up the ladder by obtaining skills and experience over time is no longer a thing.
And there was never a time that a minimum wage-earner was buying a house with 50% of their saved wages.
@billibob and sailaway
Starlink, when I grid that will be made by Starlink satelite more and more all that looks like that ship that went drilling in 50s if I remember it correctly.
Scariest part is that I can envision hipster walking around town talking on His pizza box size iPhone, think ING that is a coolest thing since slice Ed bread…
I just ordered pizza for kids lunches so I have to put my 899 cents in…
We seem to be entering into a “social credit” type people management system, similar to that currently used in China.
This is concerning.
North America has always been run on the “individual first, collective second” philosophy. The collective does matter, however the rights of the individual are considered first and foremost, with the rights of the collective coming second.
This is as I said, very different from the Chinese system, where the rights of the individual do not matter, and the rights of the collective take precedence over all other rights.
We have recently seen in North America the populist movement (rights of the collective), the “virtue signalling” movement (rights of the collective), the “cancel culture movement” (individual freedom of speech does not matter, rights of the collective are supreme in terms of what you are allowed to say), and now the COVID-19 crisis.
The virus is clearly being dealt with on a collective rights basis. The individual has no ability to choose whether or not to bother with COVID-19. The individual must comply with very strict rules, set in place to protect the collective. The collective is being protected, from the individual, who otherwise would cause damage to the collective, by exercising individual freedoms (like going for a walk, for example).
This is all cardboard cut out social credit thinking. Place the collective ahead of the individual, and require the individual, in all actions, words, thoughts, behaviour, to place the well being of the collective above all else.
Behaviour which supports the collective is rewarded. Behaviour which does not, is punished.
There is no right or wrong, there is only acceptable behaviour based on the current mob-rule decrees, and unacceptable behaviour, based on the same model.
Individual thought is crushed. You should not be allowed to think for yourself. If you do, you most certainly should not be allowed to act on your thoughts, or to publish them or make them known.
When acting, or publishing your thoughts, your first step should be to ask yourself “what is the correct, virtue signalling action or thought for what I am going to do?”
The individual, then correctly identifying the correct manner of virtue signalling in the situation, goes about doing that, without considering whether they agree with it or not, and without thinking about it.
It is classic social credit. The Chinese have been doing this for years.
‘Problem is rent for a one bedroom is $1400 and rising’. Yes, living on your own is expensive. Which is why many Boomers shared a place when they first moved out from their family home. Very few could afford the luxury – & it was a luxury – of having their ‘own’ place when they first started out. Most everyone I knew had at least one & often two roomies to split the costs with. Moving out from the family home was the first step towards independence. The much longed for second step – a place that was truly one’s own – usually took at least two & more often 4 or 5 years to achieve. I’m talking rentals, not buying. That took even longer & as so many have mentioned, prices were lower then. So too were wages. Way I see it, seems like the expectation that one can have a place of one’s own from the get go is why so many are so indebted. They want the lifestyle & are frustrated/angry that it costs so much. FYI, it always did. As for banking 50% of one’s earnings, that too isn’t realistic, if for no other reason than the fact that at least 25 to 30 percent is deducted prior to your even receiving it.
Here’s a story for you all. I work for a 3PL and one of our customers intentionally pulled the plug on his business for 30 days so he could experience a revenue drop which would all him to qualify for the wage subsidy. my point is that both businesses and individuals are abusing this system.
My new cellphone is great, amazing battery life and service big plus is I can use USB-c and super charger to charge it…
https://imgur.com/a/VSXi2Ez
So how does this work? I started working at age 13, stocking my dad’s store shelves, handling the orders etc. At 14 lied about my age and got better pay flipping burgers at McDonalds, $2.15/hr. Worked all through all schooling, university, sometimes juggled 2, even 3 jobs, until physically unable anymore at age 56. Literally busted my back, now waiting forever for major spine surgery in our broken BC healthcare system. Now I get the CPP disability I paid into for 40+ years and it’s $963/month. Was too proud and honourable to collect disability from my employer. I was in pharmaceutical management, a tough, dog eat dog, brilliant world, never show weakness. And I hope to go back to work if I ever get the needed surgery, don’t want that on my record. Who can live on $963? But lazy sloths and cheaters are getting $2000/month?! What kind of world has this become? Pitiful.
Hmmmm. If you worked all your shifts in a month at Carson’s company, asusming a 40 hour week, you’d take home $2900 per month vs CERB at 2,000 gross (would be 1800 net after tax [and yes, CERB is taxable income]).
Seems like the market is signalling a few possible things: 1) perhaps Carson is an ass and people really don’t like working for him 2) the work is dangerous and deserves higher pay 3) employees don’t think they will get enough shifts to clear the 2k hurdle.
Or a combination of all 3.
But it definitely is telling that people will give up $1100 per month rather than work for some of these companies.
Well the government shut every business down… so they should own it and compensate people that were impacted. It is also their fault for not overseeing the payouts to prevent against fraud. If the option to work was available I would take it but the entire film industry is shut and the borders are closed to. Industries are falling like dominoes Travel, hospitality, restaurants to name a few and it goes on and on. Even if this is fixed now… we will be dealing with the impact in 2025/2026. and lets tell the gov to stop picking winners and losers…
Garth, please pick up a copy of “The Deficit Myth” and give it a read.
I support expansion of UBI and elimination of all tax deductions incl. personal deductions. The corporate / farmer welfare is far far worse. Also stop all handouts to seniors, babies etc. everyone get ubi and nothing else. There should be only 3 tax brackets – low, middle and upper. I am thinking 15%, 35% and 50% marginal tax.
“Finding intelligent life elsewhere isn’t the problem; finding it here on Earth now that’s a challenge.”
One of best online comments. Hint don’t start with politicians or leaders. Needle and haystack thing.
CERB works out to a whopping $12.50 an hour for a full time employee. Sounds to me like Scott and Lisa wouldn’t have any problems retaining employees if they paid them more than a token amount above this modest sum.
I cannot sufficiently articulate how little sympathy I have for people whose business isn’t viable without paying their workers such a pathetically low wage.
“In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By “business” I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.” -FDR, 1933.
When we talk about people being born on third base and white privilege (people of all races can be born on third base but I digress) T2 was born with an automatic out of the park homerun. How else can someone with no credentials and weak academics become leader of a nation? Birthright and very stupid voters. The results are underwhelming.
Two words: Stephen Harper!
There is a continuum of need in society for assistance.
The government provides a limited range of support, for millions. A certain unfairness ensues. No surprise there.
No sane person wants to get money for nothing. The rotting of the soul, whether it’s trustafarians or addicts on welfare that comes from not having to work for a living is well documented. I was on a picket line for eighteen months. Within four months, anyone who had smoked in their life was puffing away like a fiend, and all the ills of poverty began to emerge from substance abuse to mental illness.
Wages in society have declined in real terms, to the point where the marginal gain from a workaday job compared to CERB makes it attractive to work limited hours, or what I have heard anecdotally is work for cash from a sketchy employer in the restaurant industry. But this behavior is not new.
Far better to have an economy where all workers are valued, and we’ve had a real lesson in how important grocery clerks, cashiers and care home attendants are in our world. Sadly we will likely return to the status quo ante pandemic for those workers, as even the modest $2 per hour premium is being discontinued.
On the upside, it seems that a lot more young people will get that all important first job much more easily than has been the reality for some decades. Silver lining.
Read Sapiens by Yuval Harari – very interesting look at how we as humans got to where we are now and possibly where we are heading
Since I last posted…went to a couple of pubs.
Social Distancing is wreaking havoc.
They are required to have approx 50% of old capacity….and they are currently less than half of that with current wave of clientele…or less than 25% of Pre -COVID capacity.
Seems to be quite a turnover of staff as well. Menus are shrunk big time.
Noticed this same disaster in other places as well.
Just saw on news Starbucks is closing 200 locations.
Overall…I see a major disaster for small business….the PERFECT(engineered) STORM.
#68 Linda
“The much longed for second step – a place that was truly one’s own – usually took at least two & more often 4 or 5 years to achieve. I’m talking rentals, not buying. That took even longer & as so many have mentioned, prices were lower then. So too were wages. ”
So wrong. I worked with a woman who worked as a cashier at Safeway, who married a meat cutter. They were in their early twenties, and bought a house in Richmond B.C. for $50,000 in 1975. They put down $40,000 saved from their wages working good union jobs.
Wages used to be way higher relative to the housing market until the nineties. Wages began to fall against the cost of living, and real estate increased faster than the cost of living.
#34 Putting things in context on 06.10.20 at 12:20 pm
Let’s go back in time 1958
My parents bought a house for $16,000 both had jobs, my mother a nurse made $7.50 a day my father a labourer $8.00
Inflation adjusted from 1958 to 2020, your parents’ wages are far and above the norm for their fields.
$7.50 -> $67.40
$8.00 -> $71.89
How about the house?
$16,000 -> $143,788.08
Pretty cheap! Impossibly so in some markets.
While I am a critic of any program that discourages an increase in productivity it is hard to criticize Canadian citizens for lining up at a trough that seem to have an unlimited supply of goodies for all.
The Bank of Canada is buying just about every form of collateralized debt obligations available and this injection of cash has shored up the stock market, provided struggling companies with access to cash, mitigated possible declines in housing prices, etc.
In the past very few members of the general population received any form of direct benefit when our Government intervened in our economy. 2020 was the first time that all citizens who had participated in the Canadian economy in 2019 were offered compensation in the form of cash transfers. Even senior citizens were offered a minimum of $300 to offset the impact of the Covid 19 lockdown.
There is little doubt that it might have been more prudent to invest $50 billion in expansion of the Canadian economy but what is done is done. No point in pointing fingers at those who were lured on board the gravy train. Our focus for the balance of 2020 must shift to strategies that will expand Canadian GDP.
The stock market was brought back to life by Central banks and it is time to admit that the patient in urgent need of attention for the balance of 2020 is our crippled economy. Stock markets do not always reflect the underlying health of an economy.
#3 Unhinged Trader on 06.10.20 at 10:04 am
If the Trudeau regime spends all of the future’s money on providing additional income to unscrupulous contractors and teenagers, where will he find the extra money to fund the Offices of Inquisition to combat the systemic racism that seeps through every part of our society, and therefore also the current government by the very vague definitions of systemic racism…?
—
Wash away the racism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQDww6O7Eew
#77 SunShowers on 06.10.20 at 2:45 pm
CERB works out to a whopping $12.50 an hour for a full time employee. Sounds to me like Scott and Lisa wouldn’t have any problems retaining employees if they paid them more than a token amount above this modest sum.
—
Getting paid $12.50 to play video games and watch TV versus getting paid $19 to do actual work?
I don’t think you thought this through very well, or you are incredibly naive.
I have given the CREB some thought. The employer will have to pay more to attract the employee. Therefore the cost passed on to consumer will increase. So if the consumer has to pay more that will encourage them to go out and work harder to afford to buy something. Wages go up along with more full timers might be a good thing. Now you know why clubs are packed in Copenhagen where it cost $12 a beer. They can afford it because they get paid more, enjoy benefits, work longer hours therefore more productive. No need for part time jobs. Less unemployment too. I know my wife is Icelandic. I remember when I worked in service industry as bartender full time with benefits back in early 80’s.
Work you’re fingers to the bone, what do you get? Bony fingers…
Reap what you sow
Virus stats in Peterborough:
Confirmed positive: 91
Individuals tested: >10,900
Deaths: 2 (1 in LTC/ 1 on reserve)
Resolved: 85
Active cases: 4 (travelers or nursing homes)
Population: 131,283 (2018)
As with all given virus stats no clarity on how many died WITH it vs OF it. Deaths occurring in senior/care centers have high chance of being the first. Yet go to bulk barn and your told to mask/glove up and followed (no risk of infection by food and surfaces other then metal (in hospital setting.) Big food and home stores more flexible but still safe while construction sites full of workers working close minus any protection (no outbreaks reported on sites like this.) And we are subjected to PSAs about danger of this virus. WHO walked back asymptotic stmt? Interesting. I have guesses.
Cottagers are here (don’t tell)…
@#34 Putting things in context on 06.10.20 at 12:20 pm
Let’s go back in time 1958
My parents bought a house for $16,000 both had jobs, my mother a nurse made $7.50 a day my father a labourer $8.00 both had to moonlight to pay the mortgage. My father own a third hand car that was so rusted he had to put licence plates in the floor boards to stop getting wet.
Never whined or complained as that’s the way it was.
Never demanded universal income or housing prices were to high. If you wanted something you saved your money and incurred no debt other than a mortgage.
You did not buy anything but food and clothes. My father had three pairs of pants two for work and an old pair for relaxing. He exercised in the bedroom.
We had an open window and a fan for air conditioning.
Life was tough but we were all happy with what we had
Think about life and be grateful.
/////////////////////////
LMAO!
Thats not even remotely close to being a tough life.
Just print it. You know you can! They printed $4-trillion to keep 1%ers happy.
CERB Canada.
Not the country I grew up in.
Who will pay?
The Blog Dogs here, save 1.
Divert yourselves with Tesla, your portfolio, etc. all the while trying to forget the one certainty of CERB Canada:
The Taxman Cometh…
————————–
Never thought of the PBO as “indie” (i.e., to me a warren of visor wearing, bean counting prognosticators).
THAT was good.
Stop watching the mainstream media. It will muck you up. Pure propaganda. If you are going to watch, just make sure you do it to try to pick out how they are trying to manipulate you.
#7 blogshark
I think its fairly hilarious to hear people gloating about collecting CERB because “I was making less beforehand”.
//////////////
Then laugh all you want at the 16 year old student who worked one 8 hr shift a week at a clothing store Pre Covid and is now collecting $2000/month CERB, paid for with your tax dollars.
#41 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 12:44 pm
#26 Faron on 06.10.20 at 11:55 am
Ok. Up 8% to its all-time high today, or put another way, if I chose to realize today’s bump, it would pay cap gains plus buy a 2-3 yo Toyota 4Runner.
But sure, stick with your $6,000 beater. I’ll give you a ride out when it breaks down, although you might have to ride in the back with the dogs and open the gates. Heck, I’ll even give you some $ for a bus ticket home. Do unto others, you know?
—
We seem to agree on Toyotas at least. My current $5000 car:
Bought with cash in 2015.
Oil changes, basic maintenance and one set of tires
Drive it everywhere
Engine light came on once. Gas cap was loose.
Fun expirement (that I didn’t do obvs)
You buy your Tesla for 100k, I buy my yoda for 5k and invest the 95k in SPY in 2015.
I get a free 50k plus still have the 95k and a reliable car (okay, the CVs are starting to click). I’ll prob have put in another 10k in gas and routine maint. Lets call it 130k net.
You have a depreciated car with a battery at half its life and maybe some admiring looks from image conscious lower mainlanders and and misty eyed enviros. You at 50k net? Tetch less. And Elon now has a trove of your personal data. And Elon owns the license to your car’s software and, hence, pretty much your car.
Seems pretty simple to me. Maybe own TSLA not a Tesla?
#86 NFN_NLN on 06.10.20 at 3:11 pm
Getting paid $12.50 to play video games and watch TV versus getting paid $19 to do actual work?
————————–
$19 an hour was for Carson, who as others have pointed out, isn’t paying very much for a job like that in Victoria. We don’t know where Scott and Lisa operate or how much they pay. But depending on how much faith you want to put in “the market”, we don’t need to. The fact that people aren’t working for them means that however much they’re paying, it’s not enough.
CERB is below minimum wage for a full time worker in all provinces and territories except 4. The fact that it’s serving as a floor for labor compensation for some businesses is an indictment of those businesses’ compensation practices, not the CERB.
In any case, $12.50 an hour doesn’t pay the rent and put food on the table. $19.00 an hour does (offer not valid in YYZ, YVR, or YYJ).
“It’s interesting what happens when you pay people not to work.”
Any doubts anymore what it would be like with a universal guaranteed income?… :)
Fortunately me and my family will get out of Canada before anything like this could happen.
My heart be still.
4 hr ago:
“Opposition parties reject emergency COVID-19 aid bill…proposes changes to the CERB in response to concerns that the benefit is discouraging people from returning to low-paying jobs”.
And of course:
“Government House leader Pablo Rodriguez says the Liberals will attempt to find other ways to deliver on those promises.”
—————————-
Hope springs eternal.
Be all you can be. Build your future yourself. Don’t rely on any one else.
#90 no blog for old men on 06.10.20 at 3:19 pm
@#34 Putting things in context on 06.10.20 at 12:20 pm
Let’s go back in time 1958
My parents bought a house for $16,000 both had jobs, my mother a nurse made $7.50 a day my father a labourer $8.00 both had to moonlight to pay the mortgage. My father own a third hand car that was so rusted he had to put licence plates in the floor boards to stop getting wet.
Never whined or complained as that’s the way it was.
Never demanded universal income or housing prices were to high. If you wanted something you saved your money and incurred no debt other than a mortgage.
You did not buy anything but food and clothes. My father had three pairs of pants two for work and an old pair for relaxing. He exercised in the bedroom.
We had an open window and a fan for air conditioning.
Life was tough but we were all happy with what we had
Think about life and be grateful.
/////////////////////////
LMAO!
Thats not even remotely close to being a tough life
……………………………………………………………………
My parents came here from Sicily in the 60’s with nothing but a suitcase. Spoke almost no English. Stayed with a cousin of my mothers for two years in a basement (unfinished) until they saved enough money for a down-payment on the home. My father never owned a car until 1975 and it was a used 1970 Chevy. My father had at one point three jobs day job, part time evening job and worked on a Saturday at a local hardware store here in the city. My mother worked two jobs until she had my brothers, sister and myself. We as kids never had a lot of money but my parents sent all of us out to play baseball, soccer and such on the local leagues. I never knew that they did all of this by sacrificing their vacation money to go back home. The first vacation they took back home several years ago I paid for after insisting that they go back to see some relatives that they had not seen in over 50 years. They had a tough life here in the early years as every other person called them a [email protected] or other derogatory slang. The funny thing is my mother was born in Russia and the family moved to Italy where she grew up learning Italian and Sicilian culture, sort of. Sicily is really anther country you would have to go there to understand. Anyway it took them many years of hard work and they are finally set for life now. Good investments in land and some real-estate set my father and mother up. They have sold all of the real-estate now and have investment funds that take advantage of the significant funds that the sold properties yielded. Today’s kids have no idea how hard it was before with no social safety nets.
BoredBear on 06.10.20 at 9:53 am
I get why adults supporting a family may need CERB, but why 15 year old kids who are supported by their parents?
————
Exactly.
As well, those 15 yr olds can’t vote.Parents can. Their income is doubled when the kids hand over their money to moms and pops. Not fair to others.
Sitting at home for six to eight months collecting CERB is going to look real good on your resume.
Home prices going up in Lower Brainland BC.
So much for Siddall….
His projection is over 12 months, not 12 days. – Garth
#38 Linda on 06.10.20 at 12:29 pm
Today’s blog post illustrates why I would never vote for UBI.
…………………………..
Dear Linda:
You will never get a chance to vote against UBI because it will be imposed upon us by the government “elected” by the 32% who want the free stuff. And the House of Commons has only sat for 38 days in the past year despite Covid, massive spending, blockades, etc. What do think this is, a democracy ?
All the best,
Elvis
Jarad on 06.10.20 at 11:19 am
The logic behind this doesn’t make sense. CERB is taxable, so people are wanting to get $24,000/yr to sit at home and do nothing instead of working and getting *at least* $28,000/yr? That’s based on Ontario’s minimum wage of $14/hr – full time hours. CERB is great for people who are out of work, but it’s still a poverty wage. I can’t imagine people intentionally collecting it instead of working to make a decent living.
———
If people collect $2000 per month, and then work for cash, they have it made. This is happening.
#20 Kiril
I am with you 100%.
System based on DEBT is bound to be vulnerable.
If real estate were cheaper people would have an incentive to spend more in the economy. Everyone would be better off. I don’t know why people don’t get it. THERE JUST ISN’T ENOUGH DISPOSABLE INCOME! Most people work to pay bills and JUST break even! That should be addressed and real estate should be left to come down to EARTH!
#83 SunShowers on 06.10.20 at 2:59 pm
#34 Putting things in context on 06.10.20 at 12:20 pm
Let’s go back in time 1958
My parents bought a house for $16,000 both had jobs, my mother a nurse made $7.50 a day my father a labourer $8.00
Inflation adjusted from 1958 to 2020, your parents’ wages are far and above the norm for their fields.
$7.50 -> $67.40
$8.00 -> $71.89
How about the house?
$16,000 -> $143,788.08
Pretty cheap! Impossibly so in some markets.
—————————————————————–
At $19/hr you’re making a $152/day. More than double the inflation adjusted wage of the day laborer or nurse back in ’58.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying things are easy now, just that things weren’t easy in the past either.
Seems to me like employers are getting very greedy. Bottom line is the smart kids are staying out of debt and refusing $19/hour jobs. So what you have left is the other half that is in debt and will take dead end jobs. Of course they also tend to quit often and be more unreliable. If a business owner is not getting the response they expect for an open position it usually means that either the compensation is too low, the job ha no future or the working conditions are not competitive.
There are many simple solution. As an employer you need to offer a long-term path at a decent wage in order to attract quality, reliable and responsible employees.
I’m more than happy to help any business owner that is having trouble finding and retaining quality employees. We can sit down and go over your compensation and hiring practices. I can analyse your business and come up with a long-term career path for future employees.
I’ve got lots of experience. A business grad from a top tier Canadian university. Experience at a macro-economic research firm.
These hiring and retention problems are fairly easy to fix. My rate is $140/hour.
I’ve been reading this blog for a while and I am truly happy to help fix the system. :)
CERB money will end up back into the economy, and that’s a good thing.
People use CREB money to pay the mortgage (think RBC, TD, …)
People use CREB money to pay for groceries (Loblaws, Empire, Metro)
People use CREB money to pay their cell bills (BCE, Telus)
People use CREB money to pay utility bills (Fortis, Hydro One)
People use CREB money to watch Netflix all day (NASDAQ)
#93 Lee on 06.10.20 at 3:32 pm
Stop watching the mainstream media. It will muck you up. Pure propaganda. If you are going to watch, just make sure you do it to try to pick out how they are trying to manipulate you.
—————
I only watch the Disney Channel.
Is that OK with you?
As I always say once CERB is cut, no disaster happens. People get back to work, no housing or market crashes. But suspect HUGE inflation on services, as current small business struggling to find employees and need to increase salaries to attract people. As a result higher price for final product
A once-great country on the slide.
Too many had become dependent on the government to look after them even before the virus even shut things down. Things doubly bad now.
And our PM has no clue how to remedy things–never had, never will. In fact, I am not even sure he wants to…..
BB
#6 Queen City Kid. Well said.
Also seems to me that people to not understand how the financial system works. When our government bails out business the stock holders of those businesses also benefit.
So if we are going to talk about wealth transfers then let’s look at the increase in portfolio value due to government bailouts. In essence our tax dollars are being transferred to owners of stocks.
Same goes to the business owners and landlords that are getting their rent payed and to the CEO’s that still have jobs due to govt bailouts. Not to mention all the government and quasi-government workers ‘working’ from home for the past few months.
Like I said before there is no use playing the blame game, the system is loaded with too much legacy cost and too much debt. You can look into this the debt becomes exponential starting in the 1970’s. Too much belly in the mid-section. The patient is walking slower and slower. Time for a little diet for everyone. Even the debt holders can only squeeze so much from a lemon that is not dry.
This is why more and more people are choosing not to jump into the system. Stay out of debt and you won’t be a slave. Then when the opportunity and fruits look ripe start picking.
Doing FaceTime interview with for CBC news tonight talking about CERB. Probably the National
Be brave, Steve. – Garth
Spelling error corrected :) Sorry for the double post Garth
_________________________________________________________________
Also seems to me that people to not understand how the financial system works. When our government bails out business the stock holders of those businesses also benefit.
So as an owner of Air Canada stock. If I have 1,000,000$ worth of stock and Air Canada is about to go bankrupt due to Covid and them not having an emergency reserve fund. The government steps in and bails them out. Now instead of my stock value going down 50-90% all of a sudden my stocks are going up. Thus a big wealth transfer from tax payers to me the owner of air canada stock. This is just an example that is repeated over and over with government bail-outs. Me the million dollar stock owner gets bailed out. A little bit absurd no? But hey I also pay a lot of taxes so tough luck. Net wealth transfer $500,000+++ based on bail or no bail out air canada stock value price.
So if we are going to talk about wealth transfers then let’s look at the increase in portfolio value due to government bailouts. In essence our tax dollars are being transferred to owners of stocks.
Same goes to the business owners and landlords that are getting their rent payed and to the CEO’s that still have jobs due to govt bailouts. Not to mention all the government and quasi-government workers ‘working’ from home for the past few months.
Like I said before there is no use playing the blame game, the system is loaded with too much legacy cost and too much debt. You can look into this the debt becomes exponential starting in the 1970’s. Too much belly in the mid-section. The patient is walking slower and slower. Time for a little diet for everyone. Even the debt holders can only squeeze so much from a lemon that is dry.
This is why more and more people are choosing not to jump into the system. Stay out of debt and you won’t be a slave. Then when the opportunities and fruits look ripe start picking.
People forget that CERB is fully taxable, and taxes are not taken off at the time of payment (unlike EI).
Many CERB recipients will be shocked next April when the bill comes due. Around $2000 of that $8000 benefit will be demanded back by the govt.
#82 Keith – A double income couple working towards a mutual goal will very likely have a financial advantage over a single person trying to achieve the same goal. The young couple in their 20’s that you cite in your example? Did they rent prior to buying a home? How many years did they work before they achieved their goal? I’d add that for every good paying union job, there were plenty of jobs that weren’t so well paid. Still are, hence the all too many examples of people taking CERB over working.
Is the gap between average earnings & house prices greater today than it was back then? Of course. My point however is that peoples expectations do not match up to reality. The expectation being that they should be able to afford a place of their own right away. The reality being that if they choose to live alone, that their cost of living will seriously impact their ability to save. That is a reality that hasn’t changed over the decades since the Boomers left home.
#93 Lee on 06.10.20 at 3:32 pm
Stop watching the mainstream media. It will muck you up. Pure propaganda. If you are going to watch, just make sure you do it to try to pick out how they are trying to manipulate you.
Lee, the problem isn’t you (us) getting manipulated.
It’s everyone else.
It’s easy to sign off, but you still have to live in a society in which those so easily lead happily lead us all off a cliff.
The MSM is so complicit, it is staggering.
Tens of thousands protest, no announced spikes in cases of C19.
Yet of 30 ppl at a family bbq 15 contract a mild form of C19, and it’s all we hear about.
It’s right in front of our faces, it has hoax written all over it, yet if you don’t believe the gov’t narrative, you are the nutter.
Zero cases on the rock on which I reside like a stubborn lichen.
Zero.
Still locked down though.
Cause I don’t think the virus (or is it now a bacteria?) respects provincial boundaries, so unsure why one part of one province would be covered under a blanket lock down even with no cases.
A hoax created by a political force, perpetuated by the media and worsened by the populace at large.
Lotsa shame to go round. Can’t wait until those who lost everything wake the eff up, stand up, and demand some accountability.
Those’ll be some darn good times.
Universal income…..aim for mediocrity kids!
#95 Faron on 06.10.20 at 3:37 pm
#41 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 12:44 pm
#26 Faron on 06.10.20 at 11:55 am
————-
Maybe own TSLA not a Tesla?
————-
Yes, we’re saying the same thing. TSLA gains gave me my Tesla which is delightfully appropriate.
#94 Penny Henny on 06.10.20 at 3:37 pm
A 16 year old has a lifetime to pay back the taxes we’ve spent on them. That’s what society should be doing, looking after the young, and the old.
The young prince is bathing in the glory of spending more money than any other PM in our history. He does so with no conscience because he’s never had to pay for anything with his own money let alone pay back debt.
Unfortunately the conservatives are not well united to be a threat as the opposition. The NDP are simply around to check our conscience, the Block should be thrown in jail and Green is cute.
Please Canada we need to put an adult in charge.
Ontario minimum wage $14/hr x 40 hr per week x 4 weeks
a grand total of $2240
why would anyone go back to work if the feds are paying you $2000 to stay home.
wages need to go up dramatically.
Experience and training? Dignity and self-worth? Advancement and career-building? Sad times. Sad comments here. – Garth
#102 Slim on 06.10.20 at 4:03 pm
Sitting at home for six to eight months collecting CERB is going to look real good on your resume.
————————-
Nice one, will have to add a variant to the new hire question list.
# 50
“$19 an hour is ridiculously low! Here in Oakville, high school students who tutor or offer swimming lessons in the summer typically make $35 an hour or more. They don’t go working for $19/hour.”
Proof?
A quick review of online tutoring in Oakville for people without a teaching degree seems to be $14-17.
#95 Faron on 06.10.20 at 3:37 pm
Seems pretty simple to me. Maybe own TSLA not a Tesla?
——————-
Tesla’s plans to use software as key selling feature for upgrading/dating features vs upgrading actual car (always an option) and now offer leasing. Most digital devices now have ability to track (you) and more going fwd. Buy maybe good investment:
Nikola vs Tesla semis
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.autoblog.com/amp/2020/04/28/nikola-tesla-semi-truck-lawsuit/
Tesla’s self-driving ride-sharing network robotaxis:
https://electrek.co/2019/04/22/tesla-robotaxi-network-self-driving-fleet-ride-sharing-cars/?_gl=1*1hh84wp*_ga*YW1wLWVUaFZBM3lqTkl0Yk1iR1Q2ZFhKUXlrTkVYdW55S045TzRwWGZQTUQtdzZhVFV1aFFmeWk0UU0zVWNodXluYmI.
Tesla vs other car makers
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/08/tesla-vs-other-global-car-makers.html%3famp
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
(people of all races can be born on third base but I digress)
^^^^^^^^^
Really? A bit of an ignorant statement, don’t you think?
Garth, I would have deleted this.
Trudeau in a landslide. Get out now.
#110 Pontus,
Didn’t know Disney reported on the news.
Garth more despondent than ever about the country going to hell in a hand basket, and everyone is on a tangent about how livable or not two grand a month is.
This blog already did the $14.00 minimum wage is set way too generous thing once, and now it is all about how $19.00/hr is far too low to live on.
Hoy-yoy, yoy-yoy, yoy!
The real topic is within what Garth wrote about.
Federal books ain’t balancing folks. Trouble ahead!
M66NS
Experience and training? Dignity and self-worth? Advancement and career-building? Sad times. Sad comments here. – Garth
—————————————–
Ok Garth, let’s talk about dignity and self-worth.
The Canadian government has (correctly) decided that there is a base value, a floor, that every Canadian is “worth” just by the virtue of being alive. That value happens to be $2000 per month.
Now the Ontario government thinks I should be paid a minimum of $2240 per month for 160 hours of work. Subtracting one monthly paycheque from the other and dividing by 160, we get $1.50
I don’t know about you Garth, but my dignity and self-worth tells me that my time and labor is worth one heck of a lot more than a buck-fifty per hour.
Experience and training don’t pay the bills either. Capitalism’s frenzied race to the bottom has spawned an economic hellscape of zero-hour contracts, precarious freelancing, people working for FREE in exchange for “exposure”, and an enormous gig economy that can only exist by misclassifying workers as independent contractors. It’s ridiculous.
So long as not working pays almost as well as working, people will choose the former. For skilled labour, this is rarely an issue, but for unskilled labour, why engage in menial, unfulfilling work when you can afford to be picky?
#121 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 5:08 pm
#95 Faron on 06.10.20 at 3:37 pm
#41 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 12:44 pm
#26 Faron on 06.10.20 at 11:55 am
—
Kinda. Except, you were poking fun at owning a cheap used car while I illustrated that buying a new, luxury car has MASSIVE opportunity costs. Flushing 80k down the toilet massive.
100k is play money to very few people. For you, well YDY; for the rest, stick with beater Toyotas.
Government stimulus welfare for the 1%
CREB for the 99%….much lower of course but hey, if the 1% can enjoy it over the past 2 decades, why can’t the 99% over a few months?
The middle class will pay for it anyways like they always do….why the 1% even bothers to notice I have no idea unless they truly want ALL the money out there.
???
The first wave of the Pandemic has broken in Canada, with the daily rate of new infections dropping day after day. But a second wave in this pandemic is still very possible.
Better to cut the CERB now, and get able-bodied workers working (in regions like BC where it is safe to do so) and keep some of that aid in reserve case Canada has to lock to fight a second, or third wave.
Am I missing something here? The federal government turned on the taps, and the feds have the power to turn them off.
People who refuse to return to work when the state of the pandemic (i.e.: rate of new infections, Ro) indicate that it is safe to do so, are deemed to have VOLUNTARILY RESIGNED and in that case will no longer qualify for CERB (or EI, for that matter).
The governments are tracking outbreaks of the Pandemic in the Provinces, regions and cities. They know the numbers.
Why not turn off the CERB ‘tap’ by announcing which postal codes are ready to re-open, and giving those collecting CERB in the affected regions 2 weeks to get ready to get back to work, before benefits cease?
BC? Alberta? New Brunswick? PEI? Everywhere in Ontario that is not 416/905? All these areas have minimal transmission levels, and are in various stages of re-opening.
With $CAD at 75 cents the market is basically saying it is not concerned with Canada’s growing debt levels relative to GDP. It’s surprising that this hasn’t lead to any currency debasement.
#39 Andrewski on 06.10.20 at 12:39 pm
Our son continues to work, yet he has told us of other 20 somethings who collect CERB, as it is more than they make while working in their minimum wage J O B.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark my words, those like your son will be the first to get the short end of the stick as things return to normal. The rationale of his co-workers will be: ‘He thinks he’s better than us’ / ‘doesn’t he realize how many people’s lives he put in jeopardy by working during the pandemic’ / ‘he’s the owner’s pet’ / etc etc. This will cause many people to take the advice of Homer Simpson to heart: “Never Try”.
#97 Cristian on 06.10.20 at 3:48 pm
do not let door hit you in your a…
well, drinking tuica is acquired habit and you can always join
Iron guard or at least Vatra Romanesca
#104 ‘Elvis’ – Sorry, living in my fantasy world:)
plus a $3 dollar an hour bonus paid monthly if you show up for all your shifts.
Huh? Used to get fired for not showing up. I guess that was when you actually valued a job. What a world …
#120 Irish Stew
Ah, meritocracy is ruling land , now?
#7
Sorry your wrong. You can’t collect CERB unless you earned at least $5000.
Okay interview done will air they say on The National at 11pm. Meanwhile check my post yesterday that caught their attention at http://afterwaiterextraordinaire.blogspot.com
Sorry, should #94
#102 Slim on 06.10.20 at 4:03 pm
Sitting at home for six to eight months collecting CERB is going to look real good on your resume.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To those paranoiacs, that we see everywhere everyday with their masks and hand sanitizer, those who stayed home will be seen as the responsible, trustworthy ones. Those who went to work will be regarded as little more than scabs at best and criminals at worst. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/people-who-ignore-social-distancing-rules-may-have-psychopathic-personality-traits-study-finds/ar-BB15fERy?fbclid=IwAR0m8jxHGW2IY0S9JGWov0XZ31OHZ-tyaB89aOgUvKHXujbCyGRyGr_FVzk
I feel the virus problem is over. Time to get to your jobs, get off CERB. The CRA will come down on you pretty heavy… phone calls, etc. I know from experience, though no fault of our own. We DO NOT cheat the system, as it will seek you. We did not apply for CERB, as we did not feel necessary. Didn’t close to the amount they posted. The PM, well, is another story… Canada is in a long haul of misery for a long time… economy wise. Canada needs a strong, clear minded PM for the future, as we will need it. Very scary future ahead.
#101 Annek
Yeah, good luck getting the kids to hand over the $2000 to their parents.
To all the selfish southern hillbillies wanting to poison our health care system:
Just.
Stay.
Home.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/06/10/cottage-country-gears-up-for-flood-of-visitors-from-covid-hotspots-heres-what-you-need-to-know.html
here is an interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzKCJsou10w
#137 Shawn on 06.10.20 at 6:19 pm
With $CAD at 75 cents the market is basically saying it is not concerned with Canada’s growing debt levels relative to GDP. It’s surprising that this hasn’t lead to any currency debasement.
………………………………..
Our currency seems safe at .75ish cuz everyone else is printing / borrowing money too. If we were the only ones printing we would be in trouble but it is happening in other countries too.
This crisis has been the perfect opportunity to advance our long held goal of economystical perfection: “Free lunch for everybody and nobody working in the kitchen.”
They say you should never let a good crisis go to waste, and indeed we have not. Even in the US we have managed to advance the UBI agenda under Trump’s watch! Who would have believed that was possible? But we are just getting started.
Soon the masses will be free from the burden of earning a living. No longer will it be necessary to examine your job prospects when choosing an education, our youth will be free to follow their hearts. We are moving towards a labor free utopia! And at the same time making great strides to remove energy consumption from the economy. We have a long way to go, but this is a good advancement.
Now that the people have had a taste of UBI and seen how much it can improve their lives, there will be no going back. If necessary, we will concoct a “second wave” of crisis to extend the benefits. And then a third. And then a forth. Eventually we’ll just change the name from “Canada Emergency Relief Benefit” to simply the “Canada Benefit” or CB for short. The move towards the utopia of economystics is upon us! Rejoice and join us!
Once economic unity is achieve we will no longer require the police, so yes it is us behind the “defund the police” movement. Why should they have to work when crime is no longer a problem and UBI is available to all?
Much work still needs to be done to reallocate our current wealth distribution. But what need has one of wealth when one has UBI? An appropriate crisis will be revealed that necessitates the seizing of all wealth so that it can be properly manage for human harmony using economystics. I’ll give you a hint as to how we plan to kick it off: It starts November 4th.
Re #83
Inflation adjusted from 1958 to 2020, your parents’ wages are far and above the norm for their fields.
$7.50 -> $67.40
$8.00 -> $71.89
————————-
You did your inflation adjusted comparison of wages based on $7.50 – $8 per DAY, correct? The OP wasn’t referring to hourly wages.
In my case, I grew up in a paper bag in the middle of the street … my dad used to beat me 27 hours a day … oh wait, that was from Monty Python. :)
See that Bank of Canada paper?
It concludes mortgage arrears decrease when mortgage deferrals are granted until employment can be regained. Duhhh!
Did they come up with an answer to what happens in 3 months? They did! Cross your fingers financial policy will be deployed.
The paper missed that water is wet. Probably because Russian scientists discovered powdered water back in communist days. They just couldn’t come up with a way to dissolve it.
I am no expert but just an ordinary guy. If one pays enough to get off the dole then I would expect most that could will jump at a chance at it; mind you with today’s generation (some, not all) they have yet to prove me right, karma will right itself!
#147 Rowdie on 06.10.20 at 6:55 pm
I feel the virus problem is over
—
That would be nice. But, it’s not.
Infections are currently spiking back up in the hot US states where summer is the indoors season. India now that the monsoon is here and all over latin america as well. This winter in colder or rainier parts of the NH is going to suuuuuck. Recall that the virus came here *after* our winter was mostly past.
The upside is that %mortality is dropping as the medical system learns how best to treat those with the virus and probably due to protection of the elderly.
Use this summer to get in as good of physical shape as you can. Training for the second wave might be a good hedge. At the very least you’ll add a couple years to your life. You might even enjoy it.
#18 Jarad on 06.10.20 at 11:19 am
The logic behind this doesn’t make sense. CERB is taxable, so people are wanting to get $24,000/yr to sit at home and do nothing instead of working and getting *at least* $28,000/yr? That’s based on Ontario’s minimum wage of $14/hr – full time hours. CERB is great for people who are out of work, but it’s still a poverty wage. I can’t imagine people intentionally collecting it instead of working to make a decent living.
———————
It’s an incentive problem. Nobody is going to work full time for $4,000 a year. You can make up that difference just selling looted stuff on Facebook a couple weekends a year.
Oh yeah, and nothing precludes a flu pandemic on top of the SARS. Chances are very slim, but not zero. THAT would keep some exuberance out of the markets! Keep your ears to the ground this fall.
In that case, it might be time to get a bigger boat and put a year’s worth of supplies on it and set off…
#67 Ace Goodheart I got one .
A place I went to, the washrooms inside are closed, distancing presumably. Yes I am a filthy diseased animal not allowed near another human being.
But they have a Porta Pottty set up outside. Walk in and you are looking down at an open sewer. That sits, uncleaned and festering in the sun all day.
100s of years of modern , disease-preventing plumbing and sanitation..tossed aside.
A small reminder this is not about our health, we are living the greatest mind-reprogramming since 9-11.
– Once winter comes all those 50% capacity places, with patios closed, will close. Online only. Re-programming.
The truth is right in the open. “The truth is no longer hidden; people are hiding from the truth” is the saying. This is why kids are to spend all their waking hours in front of a screen – and any technology WE are told about is already decades old – and perfected.
Everything we use is military-developed: GPS, the Internet, Google Glasses.
This guy is a front man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink
http://www.wired.com › story › heres-how-elon-musk-plans-to-stitch-a-com…
Jul 17, 2019 – Here’s How Elon Musk Plans to Stitch a Computer into Your Brain. To hear Musk tell it, Neuralink’s hardware is either a state-of-the-art tool for …
Elon Musk unveils Neuralink’s plans for brain-reading ‘threads …www.theverge.com › elon-musk-neuralink-brain-reading-thread-robot
Jul 16, 2019 – Elon Musk’s Neuralink, the secretive company developing … realized he would: “A monkey has been able to control a computer with its brain.”.
@#149 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 06.10.20 at 7:24 pm
To all the selfish southern hillbillies wanting to poison our health care system:
Just.
Stay.
Home.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/06/10/cottage-country-gears-up-for-flood-of-visitors-from-covid-hotspots-heres-what-you-need-to-know.html
–
get out there on the highway with a sign.
your message might come across better :)
$19 an hour is not enough to live, certainly not in Victoria.
Now I don’t obviously think CERB is enough to live on either, but if you can’t afford life … might as well not work.
The real issue here is affordability and wages. I guarantee if that business offered $30 an hour, people would be lining up.
In turn, if wages rise, then costs rise and no one wants to buy anything. Businesses fail.
I don’t know what the answer is, but here we are.
#82 Keith on 06.10.20 at 2:53 pm
#68 Linda
“The much longed for second step – a place that was truly one’s own – usually took at least two & more often 4 or 5 years to achieve. I’m talking rentals, not buying. That took even longer & as so many have mentioned, prices were lower then. So too were wages. ”
So wrong. I worked with a woman who worked as a cashier at Safeway, who married a meat cutter. They were in their early twenties, and bought a house in Richmond B.C. for $50,000 in 1975. They put down $40,000 saved from their wages working good union jobs.
Wages used to be way higher relative to the housing market until the nineties. Wages began to fall against the cost of living, and real estate increased faster than the cost of living.
——
Nothing’s changed depending where you bought, and factoring in interest rates. We bought in 01 for 123k with a 90k income.
Young couple down the road bought in 2018 for 200k on 120k income, and his mortgage payment was half what ours was in 01.
Good first time home right now is 300k, that’s only 1270.00/month, not much more than the payment we had on our 123k house 19 years ago.
Anyone in Canada bellyaching about the price of RE only need look at their postal code to understand the actual problem.
I liked my cat. Female with attitude – I never had a problem with mice while she was around. I remember her performing a sideways attack on a large Labrador that a friend of my wife bought over. The dog was spooked. I picked her up and admonished her for being stupid – you could have been eaten – meow.
I had another earlier cat that would follow me. I told my mother to keep it in the house when I left for school. One day it went missing. About a week later while in my high school lab for electronics, I heard a couple of guys laughing. It was my cat they were teasing with a cord. It found me in the basement of a high school.
Meanwhile I sold some Reits to pay property taxes. Actually, when I add it up, I did quite well with options given the amount invested. Nonetheless, I am getting cautious. I guessed on a 67% rebound on my portfolio and then a flattening. I am not interested in investing more and will pay down some of my Helco – money is so cheap, I wonder but dry powder is good.
#153 Uncle Charlie on 06.10.20 at 7:32 pm
You did your inflation adjusted comparison of wages based on $7.50 – $8 per DAY, correct? The OP wasn’t referring to hourly wages.
Whoops, my mistake! Working 60-70 hour weeks between 2 jobs can sometimes make skimming posts dangerous.
Oh and the GTA real estate market is on fire again. Sorry to the haters.
Hey sun showers
You got me on the house price but the wages I quoted were a day for a nurse. Today they make way more than that a day, so wages have gone up.
7.50 a day for a nurse is $150 a month
A nurse makes more than 68 dollars a day
Thanks for checking!
#77 Sun (Idiot) Showers
“ I cannot sufficiently articulate how little sympathy I have for people whose business isn’t viable without paying their workers such a pathetically low wage.”
So create a business and pay people more. Let me guess, you can’t because *reasons*
Sad. And clown-like.
The responsible thing to do would be tax back the entire CERB payout from all recipients spread over 24 months, taken of the top every payday. Then, for these people, continue to deduct that same amount ($8000/24 =$333) every month and stuff it into a mandatory TFSA set up for them for the next ten years, to be made available only under dire circumstances, or retirement. I will eat my hat if T2 does the responsible thing.
#118 Linda
My sister graduated high school in 1979, having worked part time as a waitress, baby sitter etc. On graduation, she got an entry level job with the B.C. government as a file clerk, for something like $12,000 per year salary.
She bought a one bedroom condominium in the city of Victoria in the spring of 1980, for the price of $22,500 with roughly $5,000 down saved from her 9 month old government job and work from her teenage years. My parents had to cosign the mortgage, not because she didn’t qualify financially but because at the age of eighteen, she had not reached the legal age of majority.
She never rented, and was mortgage free in her twenties. She sold that property to buy a house at the age of twenty seven with her husband. She was born at the tail end of the baby boom, when life was far more difficult than it was for the baby boomers born 1955 and earlier.
Tell me with a straight face it was always difficult, people always had to share property before renting for years to buy their first property. What she did is impossible today.
Kiril
This is why more and more people are choosing not to jump into the system. Stay out of debt and you won’t be a slave. Then when the opportunity and fruits look ripe start picking.
—————
Tipping point may have been breached
15-18 year olds getting CERB ? Landscape client of mine hires 2-3 students every summer to cut grass, start at 7am – gave up looking. Do the math: $18.00/hour x 37.5 hours = $675 a week x 4 weeks = $2,700 per month or take the summer off and get paid $2,000 a month via T2’s borrowed money. ….hmmmm
My daughter (student) earned just over $5,000 last year. She finished school, including a term in Australia, and finished studies in December last year. She got a loan from government for $4,400 .. $1,200 of that is not repayable. In 2020, she got a GST credit of $400, CERB of $6,000 (so far) and an income tax refund of $800 from 2019. She has repaid the loan and has got $2,000 in the bank … and she lives at home!!
People forget that CERB is fully taxable, and taxes are not taken off at the time of payment (unlike EI).
Many CERB recipients will be shocked next April when the bill comes due. Around $2000 of that $8000 benefit will be demanded back by the govt.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good luck collecting it T2 …..
@#81 Lost but not Leased
“Social Distancing is wreaking havoc….”
++++
Yup.
The summer Covid19 slow down is fooling people into thinking this is over.
The service industry is getting hammered and will only get worse as the non existant tourist season rolls out… ( dont like American tourists folks? Well, watch what happens …all….over….Canada when the US tourists stay home this year….).
I cant wait to see Trudeau’s stammering non answers when the CERB is done, the economy is reeling , the money is all gone and……he’s forced to raise taxes…
He DESERVES to wear everything thats coming down the economic sewage pipe.
@#110 Ponzie Prattle
“I only watch the Disney Channel.”
++++
Explains a great deal…….
@#124 why oh why
“Experience and training? Dignity and self-worth? Advancement and career-building? Sad times. Sad comments here. – Garth”
+++
Apparently telling runny nosed brats “Good Job!” every time they screwed up and handing out medals for “participating” has created quite a sense of entitlement.
Well.
A brutal recession is coming and Trudeau has blown the budget before “Covid part deux”….
If the recession is as bad as the early 1980’s or worse………
Good luck.
:)
#171 Mr Canada
My generation; Gen-X just does not understand that mentality, graduated in a severe recession, no internet, sky high interests rates, loan, ha, kicked you out the front door before you even arrived, I just do not understand the mentality of the people you are making an excuse for?? What is your point, teaching them that being lazy is a good thing??? Taking advantage of something now that they will have to pay for the rest of there lives! Retirement will never happen for them unless they somehow strike it rich or wins the lottery!!
Be a better example!
Or, sadly, look at the homeless, who are now given $2k per month, AND a hotel room…there are more Canadian fentanyl deaths now than total Canadian covid deaths…duh. Who didn’t see that coming…
Dad worked hard every day and earned himself a tidy sum. I see the care he can afford to pay for now that dementia has taken hold. I also see what seniors relying solely on the government get. There’s no contest; Dad is better off. Why would I want CERB when I see what working will get me at the end of the day.
#169 Keith on 06.10.20 at 9:12 pm
#118 Linda
My sister graduated high school in 1979, having worked part time as a waitress, baby sitter etc. On graduation, she got an entry level job with the B.C. government as a file clerk, for something like $12,000 per year salary.
She bought a one bedroom condominium in the city of Victoria in the spring of 1980, for the price of $22,500 with roughly $5,000 down saved from her 9 month old government job and work from her teenage years. My parents had to cosign the mortgage, not because she didn’t qualify financially but because at the age of eighteen, she had not reached the legal age of majority.
She never rented, and was mortgage free in her twenties. She sold that property to buy a house at the age of twenty seven with her husband. She was born at the tail end of the baby boom, when life was far more difficult than it was for the baby boomers born 1955 and earlier.
Tell me with a straight face it was always difficult, people always had to share property before renting for years to buy their first property. What she did is impossible today.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
True. It is impossible. The reason is that there are two types of money these days; real $$, earned by the sweat of the brow and fake $$, borrowed at 0%.
It’s very hard for real $$ to compete with fake $$.
The full moon was this past Friday, but apparently I haven’t quite shaken off the effects. It’s a problem for people with prominent canine teeth. That said, since I’m still out on the ledge and nobody has talked me down I’m taking a moonshot. This one is for Dorothy.
Another book recommendation. ‘The Five’, The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper.
Hang on a second, kids… It’s not what you think. No blood and gore, but an extensively researched examination into the lives of those five women in Victorian era England. Mercy. Never mind CERB and its accomplices and intended purpose. Read how precarious the lives of both women and men were in those days where your life essentially hung on a thread. Zero safety net. Pretty shocking. I feel quite grateful to be living in this age. Author – Hallie Rubenhold. Perfect for the cottage this summer, or maybe just the hammock in your own backyard. If you can’t escape your environment there is always the retreat your imagination affords you………….
#169 Keith on 06.10.20 at 9:12 pm
What she did is impossible today.
——-
Bro bought an SFD on 100 acres.
Mortgage free at 30.
No problemo.
#128 Shirl Clarts on 06.10.20 at 5:37 pm
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
(people of all races can be born on third base but I digress)
——————-
Really? A bit of an ignorant statement, don’t you think?
Garth, I would have deleted this.
——————-
Ignorant? There’s only one ignorant statement in the above, Shirl, and it ain’t El Jefe’s.
Good thing you’re not the moderator or we’d be boxed into your tiny worldview.
#167 Idiot Showers
So create a business and pay people more.
————————
Uhhh, I don’t have to?
Seeing as how there are millions of people who are being paid well enough for it to make immense financial sense to keep working instead of staying home and collecting CERB, I’d say it’s pretty well established that businesses CAN still pay enough to attract workers.
It gets better.
CBC doing a lovely expose on the vast number of people who cheated the system to buy fentanyl with CERB money.
The CRA will have a field day collecting those improper payments. The money CRA will spend to track down money that will never be recovered will be unprecedented. At some point one of the geniuses at CRA will realize that the costs exceed the recoveries by an outrageous amount. By that time they will already have bilked the taxpayer with unnecessary overtime all the while knowing full well they will be unable to collect any funds.
The money is gone folks, it’s been blown. The horses have already left the barn. Don’t let the CRA take you for another ride.
Time to close the door on CERB.
A society with no incentive. Some utopia this is.
#134 Faron on 06.10.20 at 5:52 pm
#121 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 5:08 pm
#95 Faron on 06.10.20 at 3:37 pm
#41 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 12:44 pm
#26 Faron on 06.10.20 at 11:55 am
——————
Kinda. Except, you were poking fun at owning a cheap used car while I illustrated that buying a new, luxury car has MASSIVE opportunity costs. Flushing 80k down the toilet massive.
100k is play money to very few people. For you, well YDY; for the rest, stick with beater Toyotas.
——————
Nope, not poking fun at beater cars; poking fun at the mindset.
My $46k invested in TSLA in 2013, together with some swing trades (notably March 2020, which you also disparaged), is today worth $480k, and I also sold $130k to buy a Tesla, so let’s say $610k.
Throughout this time I have been continuously told by a certain subset that Tesla will fail. The mindset baffles me based on logic. I suspect the mindset is based on emotion, which is a huge reason so many people fail at investing. If Musk fails to be awesome at succeeding at everything he does (except Twitter), I’d maybe rethink. That day is not here.
Wife is on her 4th 4-runner, I’m on a new Tundra, roll them over every 3-4 yrs, pocket $5-10k over the residual and do it again.. eventually I’ll need to buy one out but then I plan on putting about 1,000,000 miles on it..probably still be running long after I’m not..wouldn’t consider ever buying anything else
#78 Phil on 06.10.20 at 2:47 pm
When we talk about people being born on third base and white privilege (people of all races can be born on third base but I digress) T2 was born with an automatic out of the park homerun. How else can someone with no credentials and weak academics become leader of a nation? Birthright and very stupid voters. The results are underwhelming.
Two words: Stephen Harper!
*******************************
Wow. Remember Steven Harpers fathers name that gave him the easy pass? What was his name? Charlie? Sam? Greg … Oh, not sure
#128 Shirl Clarts on 06.10.20 at 5:37 pm
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
(people of all races can be born on third base but I digress)
^^^^^^^^^
Really? A bit of an ignorant statement, don’t you think?
Garth, I would have deleted this.
*************************************\
Of course you would Shirly. You must be offended? Why not dispute instead of delete? Probably takes some effort.
The CERB story simply proves one the basic economic principles that if you tax something you get less of that and if you subsidies something you’ll get more of that.
Everything about the way CERB was handled is proof the federal governmentwas not ready and had never planned for a pandemic or economic setback of any nature.
They’ve got some serious logistics to think through before they ever throw that much money around so “liberally” and they’d better think real fast if they want to find a way out of that mess.
And this morning I saw Singt in the media trying to racialize CERB repayments, claiming that certain communities shouldn’t have to pay it back or face any consequences for fraud because they were so “desperate,” and “disadvantaged” that they supposedly had to commit fraud and should not be subjected to any sort of judicial enforcement.
So, the fight against unfair and inhumane treatment of innocent victims has now become an excuse to implement reverse-racism, which will likely lead to more racism, and all because of a basic NPD leader that doesn’t realize that if you really are desperate and disadvantaged and in need of the CERB you can get it without having to commit fraud…regardless of your colour or background!
I’m seriously so sick of medieval racism, but I’m also so sick of reverse racism fuelled by overwieldy identity politics.
Equality should mean that the consequences and opportunities are equal, no exceptions under the law or otherwise.
Once again the moderator is collecting a few anecdotal stories about those who are reluctant to resume their minimum wage jobs and how small businesses are suffering. Unclear to me whether these are just a few stories or a widespread trend. How about for balance focusing on lobbying the Gov’t to force the major corporations Air Canada and West jet to return the vast sums they collected from average citizens for airfare. With the airlines expected to down for a very long time, the vouchers are essentially worthless. This is a perfectly clear scenario where citizens subsidized in a very unfair way corporations. Please read Neil Macdonald’s (former CBC page) twitter page about this.
Well I stayed up and watched 3 versions of the National and not only was I not on but no mention was made of the bill that the government was defeated on today by the other three parties which baffles me more. I am truly sorry. I talked for 10 minutes so after they edit everything I thought maybe I would be on 30 seconds anyway. If they decide to post it I will send link. Maybe I talked less than they wanted me to about my disability than about my wife now looking for work cause the restaurant she was working at sold and the new owners brought on their own staff. Not sure really. Once again my sincere apologies for making those of you stay up late. I am going to bed as it is past my usual bedtime now.
My 18 year old son has two part-time jobs, while still juggling the (small) amount of online time the Ontario secondary system requires before graduation.
He could work more, but seems to find working more than 6 days per week in his summer before Uni just a bit too much.
My 14 year old started her first job no problem. Made $75 in tips on a recent shift.
The businesses are looking for workers, but it seems not that many are interested.
I told both of my kids – as a hiring manager for a new grad, I would be looking at what is on a resume for the summer of 2020. Those who showed ambition and didn’t sit on their butts would be at the front of the line…and the others would be in the trash heap…
#128 Shirl Clarts on 06.10.20 at 5:37 pm
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
(people of all races can be born on third base but I digress)
^^^^^^^^^
Really? A bit of an ignorant statement, don’t you think?
Garth, I would have deleted this.
———————-
It’s surprising how many of the world’s millionaires and billionaires are not “white”. Most of them don’t live in Canada though. And I have many friends who are not “white” and are doing just fine in Canada. I do believe we have “systemic racism” in Canada, but it is a pretty light version compared to the US.
Speak of the devil….
190,000 return CERB money and more under investigation
How do politicians, who spend their time manipulating (for the most part. No offence, Garth) people into voting for them, not understand how basic human nature works?
My experience with CERB. I continued to work at about half earnings which was still roughly double CERB so of course didn’t apply. Earnings were back to normal after a month. Wife’s work stopped entirely so she applied and received. Just applied again, but now business is picking up so she’ll be done with it.
Have called back workers (no wage subsidy) as we can meet the protocols. They have come back except for the $18/hr kid, and one more experienced worker who landed a $35/hr job elsewhere.
The $2000 amount was probably justified for the short term as you are trying to cover all affected workers, not just the minimum wage ones. But don’t equate
CERB to UBI. Not the same thing.
People are loving this free money, especially liberals.
#167 #77 Idiot Showers on 06.10.20 at 8:45 pm
#77 Sun Showers
“ I cannot sufficiently articulate how little sympathy I have for people whose business isn’t viable without paying their workers such a pathetically low wage.”
—————————
So create a business and pay people more. Let me guess, you can’t because *reasons*
Sad. And clown-like.
***********************
The sad truth is that some jobs are nearly worthless, but customers will pay a little bit for the service.
There’s a breaking point where customers will simply choose a $0.30 K-cup for their Keurig over waiting in line at timmies.
Imagine telling a diner in your restaurant that you are adding an extra $3 on to everyone’s bill so that you can pay the hostess $24/h.
The customer would rightfully suggest that you fire her and let people seat themselves.
There is no difference to the company’s bottom line between
A) Selling a service that costs $5 for $6
B) Selling a service that costs $8 for $9
The customer absolutely cares about a 50% increase in the price though.
The point is that wages are set by customers, not business owners. A business simply tries to make a few bucks above costs.
Sure, we can try to pay everyone more which, in theory, means that customers will have more to spend, but isn’t that just taking money out of your left pocket to put it in your right?
Raise wages>Raise prices, repeat?
BTW I seem to remember a $10 min wage just a couple of years ago and then we jacked it to $15 and now $19+3 isn’t enough? And WTH is up with getting a 15% bonus for showing up? Insane.
M40AB
Seems it is happening everywhere but keep in mind you may not have a job to go back to. Seems lots of companies doing some serious restructuring while you sit on your butt collecting. A friend works for Starbucks and they are eyeing several hundred stores across Canada for closing up completely due to low returns as drive through is now the main business compared to eat in. Expect more from lots of businesses and don’t think they will forget your lazy asses when everyone is looking for work and there isn’t a lot of jobs.
After the CERB runs out, government can give everyone an incentive to get a job with a $1000 bonus on their first cheque.
Always make the nanny state work for it.
My big family of Italian in-laws came to Montreal in the 1950s. For 40 years they worked on the hot dog line in Hygrade. They all had primary school only as no high school in Italy during the war and they were all working class.
Those factory jobs gave them all new triplex housing, homes in Florida and new cars. They all enjoyed what would be an upper middle class life style today. Their Canadian born, university educated children and grandchildren are all under-employed but working massive hours and living in these triplexes.
What happened to Canada? Why do people work so hard for so little? Why do they not realise that it is so little?
Having a house in Italy I can say the life there is a better lifestyle. Outside of tourist areas housing and just life is very cheap. Better weather. The in-laws descendants should all go home.
“The two F/T employees asked to be temporarily laid off, so they could get an extra two grand a month”.
You mean $2000 a month, not extra. What type of wage are you paying if your employees are making less than $2000 a month? Of course CERB sounds better than $12 an hour!
just extend cerb to only the immunocompromised… (getting sick with covid will cost more in hospitalization)
#199 SoggyShorts on 06.11.20 at 1:04 am
The sad truth is that some jobs are nearly worthless, but customers will pay a little bit for the service.
There’s a breaking point where customers will simply choose a $0.30 K-cup for their Keurig over waiting in line at timmies.
Imagine telling a diner in your restaurant that you are adding an extra $3 on to everyone’s bill so that you can pay the hostess $24/h.
The customer would rightfully suggest that you fire her and let people seat themselves.
There is no difference to the company’s bottom line between
A) Selling a service that costs $5 for $6
B) Selling a service that costs $8 for $9
The customer absolutely cares about a 50% increase in the price though.
The point is that wages are set by customers, not business owners. A business simply tries to make a few bucks above costs.
Sure, we can try to pay everyone more which, in theory, means that customers will have more to spend, but isn’t that just taking money out of your left pocket to put it in your right?
Raise wages>Raise prices, repeat?
BTW I seem to remember a $10 min wage just a couple of years ago and then we jacked it to $15 and now $19+3 isn’t enough? And WTH is up with getting a 15% bonus for showing up? Insane.
M40AB
——————————————-
Surely wages are also partially set by supply/demand of workers? The supply has workers has skyrocketed since the Liberals came to power in 2015.
I agree that a minimum wage is counterproductive but probably the only way to avoid starvation pay while the Liberals are in power.
Tsunami of evictions coming as deferrals Expire
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/how-to-prevent-the-coming-coronavirus-tsunami-of-evictions.html
#193 PastThePeak on 06.11.20 at 12:16 am
I told both of my kids – as a hiring manager for a new grad, I would be looking at what is on a resume for the summer of 2020. Those who showed ambition and didn’t sit on their butts would be at the front of the line…and the others would be in the trash heap…
————————————-
This! I was thinking of this as well. Surely employers will be scrutinizing CVs (of anyone, not just young students) to see what the applicant was doing during COVID. If the applicant was genuinely laid off and used CERB as a stopgap while job hunting that’s one thing. A skilled interviewer will be able to figure out if the applicant took a 4-month staycation on the taxpayer dime without seeking new employment or, worse still, if the applicant asked a previous employer to be furloughed to order to collect the free money.
#177 Drinking on 06.10.20 at 9:56 pm
#171 Mr Canada
My generation; Gen-X just does not understand that mentality, graduated in a severe recession, no internet, sky high interests rates, loan, ha, kicked you out the front door before you even arrived
—————————————-
Interest rates were “sky high” in the 90s? They were high in 1990-91, but for the rest of the decade remained between 4-7% aside from a few blips. High by today’s standards but not historically.
And to even out your sob story, what were your education and housing costs back then?
Looks like 2nd wave is hitting America.
Texas not looking so cool anymore.
Jane24
What happened to Canada? Why do people work so hard for so little? Why do they not realise that it is so little?
—————————————————-
lockdown and you can bet may many families are talking about this. Game is rigged now. Only way to win is not to play.
When my kids were small we used to talk about history a great deal. What really happened to Rome and all the big empires. Well they got too big rampant corruption and $$$ skimming
People really had no choice but to “un hitch their horse from the wagon”
#146 Pete from St. Cesaire you nailed it. That article means Wave 2 is here. Wave 2 in the war. See they’ve made us the enemies. All 7 billion of us are selfish bio-weapons for wanting to live the old system.
Our sick elites are specifically targeting young and old – the most vunerable. School kids are no longer allowed activities or play at school. It is like a prison.
Ditto for the old people in homes – lock down, no visitors.
Everything has been inverted. Socializing is abnormal – hard when some wear masks. Gathering is banned.
Saving, working will be punished with low interest rates and crippling taxation.
Property ownership is being pushed out. Tenants allow to squat. Property taxes are the first hike they made.
Police and courts ? Naw don’t need them. Closed and de-funded. All CEOs and leaders have sold out and openly tweet in support of riots.
Once again the systems which protected us have now been turned against us. The New System
***Compassion has been removed. Getting us ready for the A.I.
#165 Captain Uppa on 06.10.20 at 8:26 pm
Yawn. Real estate is a lagging indicator. Won’t see the effects until Q3 or Q4.
#124 why oh why? on 06.10.20 at 5:18 pm
Ontario minimum wage $14/hr x 40 hr per week x 4 weeks
a grand total of $2240
why would anyone go back to work if the feds are paying you $2000 to stay home.
wages need to go up dramatically.
Experience and training? Dignity and self-worth? Advancement and career-building? Sad times. Sad comments here. – Garth
—————————————————-
Anyone happy to take 2k and do nothing is going to be a pretty terrible employee anyway. The constant complainer, that’s not my job, unmotivated, team wrecking slug.
Our economy is probably better off if these folks self-select out of the work force. Them them have their monthly stipend, and lead sad miserable lives.
#77
The government does not have a viable business. They can literally “get more” by borrowing to no end or simply tax the taxpayers as they choose.
A real business cannot simply charge more as their customers would not come or simply not return. This same business cannot simply “get more” as this borrowing must be approved by the bank and they will assess the ability to borrow more.
Now what is happening is that the government is competing with the small business in labor resources. The government’s rewards are greater than working for the small business.
Come next budget, the same business and owners will be asked to pay for the money given to the recipients of CERB when these same businesses were hampered by CERB in trying to stay afloat.
CERB shoud have been a loan repayable to the government. This loan would have an identical approval process.
The philosophical problem with CERB is what was different between a pandemic and a normal ecomonic fallout. People should have been prepared with some level of savings. Come next recession, CERB should be given back out again for those laid off because it was NO FAULT of theirs that there was a recession.
Until the population stops being coddled by these progressive liberal policies, they will never learn to accept responsibility for their own shortcomings.
#80 Doug T
Read Sapiens by Yuval Harari – very interesting look at how we as humans got to where we are now and possibly where we are heading.
——————————————————————–
Excellent book. The guy is a real deep thinker.
I read the whole trilogy:
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow, and 21 Lessons for the 21st Century.
When you read these books, it makes you realize how monumentally stupid the overwhelmingly vast majority of human beings are. I mean, just start with their ignorant belief systems. Religion, for instance, and how sucked in so many people are by it, is just one obvious example.
He makes it easier to understand and appreciate why the very smart and educated few are in a position to take such extreme advantage of the ignorant masses.
The 1% vs the 99%.
Oh, and it’s not as if colonization and one society conquering other societies is new or unique to our time, so get a life all you dumb SJWs!
15 year olds getting jobs???
That’s downright Dickensian!
Adults not working and collecting CERB???
That’s downright Canadian!
@#202 jane24
“What happened to Canada? Why do people work so hard for so little? Why do they not realise that it is so little?”
+++
I thought you would realize by now that even when you marry into money and move to a Palace ( Palazzo) ….it sometimes forces you to ….mingle with the “little people”….. and they may even be your famiglia
Terrible realization isnt it?
@#208 Howard
“Interest rates were “sky high” in the 90s? They were high in 1990-91, but for the rest of the decade remained between 4-7% aside from a few blips. High by today’s standards but not historically.”
+++
Jump back a decade to the early 1980’s.
A new truck ($15k) loan was 22%
A Mortgage ($90k) was 19%
People walked from their homes and mailed the keys to the bank.
No one was buying.
Recession.
Banks learned their lesson.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens if this goes sideways this time.
Does anyone (other than TurnerNation) wanna ponder the idea, even briefly and maybe for fun, that all of this, the virus, the shutdowns & the street riots (“I can’t breathe ….. with this damned mask on in the heat of a Toronto summer”) has been if not scripted than at least exploited to maxiumum value to advance a technocratic agenda that not everyone is going to be thrilled about?
Ladies and gents, we must CERB your old behaviors. Until then you’re kicked to the CERB.
Fear the drooling mob most.
How do you keep people honest? I had to get a new vehicle as my lease was coming up. The person I deal with openly talked about how some of the sales staff is now sitting at home collecting CERB and pass along there customers to him to make the sale. They get some money from him for the sale and they get the CERB plus some extra cash on the side. I bet this is happening in a lot of positions such as real-estate, reno’s, etc.
“The logic behind this doesn’t make sense. CERB is taxable, so people are wanting to get $24,000/yr to sit at home and do nothing instead of working and getting *at least* $28,000/yr? That’s based on Ontario’s minimum wage of $14/hr – full time hours. CERB is great for people who are out of work, but it’s still a poverty wage. I can’t imagine people intentionally collecting it instead of working to make a decent living.”
Our option C if they actually need more money, they work 17hr/week @ minimum wage and make the equivalent of 36k a year for very part time work. Works out to $43 per hour.
#199 SoggyShorts on 06.11.20 at 1:04 am
Imagine telling a diner in your restaurant that you are adding an extra $3 on to everyone’s bill so that you can pay the hostess $24/h.
The customer would rightfully suggest that you fire her and let people seat themselves.
…
Sure, we can try to pay everyone more which, in theory, means that customers will have more to spend, but isn’t that just taking money out of your left pocket to put it in your right?
Raise wages>Raise prices, repeat?
——————————
First of all, great job acknowledging that it’s customers who are the real “job creators” by being willing (and having the financial means) to pay for a product/service!
Secondly, not all costs borne by a business are labor costs. Raising wages by 50% does not mean that prices need to be raised 50% to offset the pay raise. For example, a 2015 study by Purdue University found that for McDonalds in the US to guarantee their workers $15 an hour (which for some would be DOUBLE their current wage), McDonalds would need to increase their food prices by 4.3%.
If you balk at the idea of spending an extra few cents for your big mac so the person serving it to you doesn’t have to live in poverty, then I seriously question your morals as a person.
Bumping McWages to $22 per hour (for some, TRIPLE their current wage!) would raise food prices by 25%. How is this not a good idea? Think of how much money would be circulating in the economy if everyone had this much money to spend on other people’s products and services.
Of course, it has to be done large scale. If ONLY McDonalds were to do this, they would be at a competitive disadvantage, which is why they will never do it on their own. This kind of change needs to be legislated and universal, we cannot trust the private sector to do it.
First decent tax avoidance / cost of living reduction jobs for the summer is complete. My 100’+ / 100+ year old driveway had so much organic material imbedded in it, I could have planted a thriving vegetable garden in it.
Estimated cost of digging it all out, re shaping it, cutting in the edges/sodding by hand, and refilling with 36 yards of 5/8” crusher run was about 5 grand. I did it for 1000.00 worth of material, and 40.00 worth of fuel for the track loader.
Last spring I did the roof, for under 2k, est. cost to hire out was 8k.
This year was special though. I did the job while laid off, and Trudeau paid me to do the work. Sweet!
Next up: 100% new eaves trough, two interlock brick walks, and 4 landings.
Just read the George Floyd obituary in The Economist.
Floyd and the cop that killed him…..both worked as bouncers at the same nightclub……. at different times.
#222 SunShowers on 06.11.20 at 9:23 am.
Of course, it has to be done large scale. If ONLY McDonalds were to do this, they would be at a competitive disadvantage, which is why they will never do it on their own. This kind of change needs to be legislated and universal, we cannot trust the private sector to do it.
—- —
You’d have to legislate it globally – just a heads up.
Our business has to compete globally, and wages are 60-75% of the cost of doing business.
I regularly lose work on 2% price differences. Likewise, I regularly issue purchase orders on 1% and even less price differentials. That’s what happens when margins are razor thin, everyone is damn near the same price on everything.
By the way, McDonalds has been struggling for years, shrinking footprint, shrinking customer base. Kids aren’t into greasy Big Macs like they used to be. Put the price up 25%, and watch the blood run.
What you want is a return to decades ago, where going out for dinner was a big deal because it was so expensive. You want what Trump wants, expensive domestic labour. Trump was even pressuring Mexico to pay its auto workers US wages. Mexico knew enough to resist as their auto jobs bonanza would fall off a cliff if they did so.
Folks would just do what they did then – spend less. That would shrink everything, consumer spending is 60%+ of our economy…
Your idea here is pure, unbridled idealism.
#215 Dharma Bum on 06.11.20 at 8:25 am
#80 Doug T
Read Sapiens by Yuval Harari – very interesting look at how we as humans got to where we are now and possibly where we are heading.
——————–
Excellent book. The guy is a real deep thinker.
I read the whole trilogy:
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow, and 21 Lessons for the 21st Century.
When you read these books, it makes you realize how monumentally stupid the overwhelmingly vast majority of human beings are.
He makes it easier to understand and appreciate why the very smart and educated few are in a position to take such extreme advantage of the ignorant masses.
The 1% vs the 99%.
———————–
Heck, you don’t even have to be very smart. Just recognize and apply animal training techniques to instinctual human tendencies.
CRASH !!!!
BRACE FOR IMPACT
#224 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.11.20 at 9:41 am
Just read the George Floyd obituary in The Economist.
Floyd and the cop that killed him…..both worked as bouncers at the same nightclub……. at different times.
—————————————-
Old news. That was known hours after Floyd’s death was first reported.
#222 SunShowers on 06.11.20 at 9:23 am
Bumping McWages to $22 per hour (for some, TRIPLE their current wage!) would raise food prices by 25%. How is this not a good idea? Think of how much money would be circulating in the economy if everyone had this much money to spend on other people’s products and services.
Of course, it has to be done large scale. If ONLY McDonalds were to do this, they would be at a competitive disadvantage, which is why they will never do it on their own. This kind of change needs to be legislated and universal, we cannot trust the private sector to do it.
******************************************
That’s a great idea. All wages should be bumped to an equal level so it’s fair for everyone. Money would be circulating around like crazy and life would be awesome. Let’s take a quick trip down to Cuba and witness this utopia in real time. First we can go interview all the MacDonald’s workers.
#220 Param on 06.11.20 at 9:12 am
How do you keep people honest? I had to get a new vehicle as my lease was coming up. The person I deal with openly talked about how some of the sales staff is now sitting at home collecting CERB and pass along there customers to him to make the sale. They get some money from him for the sale and they get the CERB plus some extra cash on the side. I bet this is happening in a lot of positions such as real-estate, reno’s, etc.
——-
Easy, don’t build a 4 lane highway to Fraudsville like these nimrods in Ottawa did. Folks aren’t stupid, hand them free money and they’ll take it! I think Canadians believe no one is going to pay a price for taking CERB alongside a little cash under the table. I mean, we’re talking about a government that crumbles under the pressure of 6 guys standing on a railway line. Canada has never had such a gelatinous spined collection of doorknobs running the country ever.
As long as some victim group can get on Twitter and reduce our candy ass milksop PM into a quivering puddle of guilt, we had better get used to seeing our government on its knees, and record breaking levels of fraud.
#143 Andrew MacNeil on 06.10.20 at 6:39 pm
#7
Sorry your wrong. You can’t collect CERB unless you earned at least $5000.
/////////////////
employee works one 8 hour shift per week for 1 year.
8 hours x $14/hr x 50 weeks = $5600
CERB it is.
#222 SunShowers on 06.11.20 at 9:23 am
You cherry-pick McDonald’s as an example.
Look at the other commenters like the landscaper.
There are loads of jobs where labor is a much bigger slice of the pie.
But if you do want to stick with McDonald’s then I’ll have to invoke the automation rebuttal.
Raise wages from $7 to $22 you say?
That’s an extra $30K per employee.
How about installing a $60K kiosk that replaces 2 of those employees instead?
In 12 short months, you’ve saved that $60K in raises andtheir original pay of $28K!
And we’re getting better and better at automation while basic labor has remained virtually unchanged for thousands of years. Now an iPad kiosk with custom software can be had for $500 https://www.ipadkiosks.com/collections/ios-kiosks
The stereotypical burger flipper might be next on the chopping block:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2cBg1hAjR0
Add in pandemics and it’s not hard to imagine full automation as the obvious future. How fast we get there will be significantly impacted by any legislation regarding wages.
Perhaps McJobs should be temporary and the goal should be to have people aim higher rather than attempting to force it as a viable career choice…
Hi Garth,
I work for the school board and offered my services to a redeployment website and had no offers. I personally emailed HR of all the downtown Toronto Hospitals to offer my services. No offers.
I am offering myself for free and no takers.
Guess i’ll go dig a hole!
#215 Dharma Bum on 06.11.20 at 8:25 am
#80 Doug T
Read Sapiens by Yuval Harari – very interesting look at how we as humans got to where we are now and possibly where we are heading
****************************************
I’m afraid if the SJW crowd start reading intellectual books like these their little heads will explode trying to figure out which monuments to destroy first.
#225 IHCTD9 on 06.11.20 at 10:02 am
You’d have to legislate it globally – just a heads up.
——————–
McDonalds stores in Canada/USA don’t compete with McDonalds stores in China/India.
If the McDonalds stores in Canada raise prices 25%, I won’t go to India to get a cheaper Big Mac, and I can’t order a Big Mac made for less in China to be shipped to me through Amazon.
But if YOUR business is big enough so that unlike fast food joints, it DIRECTLY competes with other companies on a global scale, how many people do you have working for minimum wage?
.
#229 Don Guillermo on 06.11.20 at 10:27 am
That’s a great idea. All wages should be bumped to an equal level
————————–
Never has anything I have ever said on this website or any others come remotely close to “pay everyone the same amount.”
1) Make minimum wage a living wage.
2) Pay fast food workers that higher minimum wage.
3) Pay jobs that require more skill/training/education than fast food more than minimum wage.
This is not difficult.
#232 SoggyShorts on 06.11.20 at 10:35 am
But if you do want to stick with McDonald’s then I’ll have to invoke the automation rebuttal.
—————–
One reason why your decision to invoke automation is a bad one, is because McDonalds is literally automating right now as we speak, even with a $7 minimum wage in some states. Heck, Trump could even LOWER the minimum wage and they’d keep right on automating.
Another reason is because I don’t necessarily view automation as a bad thing. The only problem is when the (job) losses from automation are socialized, but the (financial) gains are privatized. It is possible through legislation to encourage automation, but make sure that it benefits society as a whole instead of just a few already wealthy capitalists.
Garth, are you still saying don’t bet against America? It just seems to me they are trying everything in their power to destroy the U.S., U.S. dollar and U.S. as a leading power in the world.
By the way, they are all the communists, socialists, Liberals, lefties and all their organizations, NGO’s, UN etc.
At some point this Trudeau mania of “taking a cash advance on the visa to pay the master card bill” will come to an end. Saskatchewan in early 1993 was on the verge of bankruptcy because of a debt that they could no longer service.
How much will this government enslave the taxpayer with over the next 90 days, another 100, 150 maybe 200 Billion.
Nothing happens by accident!
#194 Nonplused on 06.11.20 at 12:17 am
#128 Shirl Clarts on 06.10.20 at 5:37 pm
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
(people of all races can be born on third base but I digress)
^^^^^^^^^
Really? A bit of an ignorant statement, don’t you think?
Garth, I would have deleted this.
———————-
It’s surprising how many of the world’s millionaires and billionaires are not “white”. Most of them don’t live in Canada though. And I have many friends who are not “white” and are doing just fine in Canada. I do believe we have “systemic racism” in Canada, but it is a pretty light version compared to the US
*****************************************
Stats show that Asians are the most affluent ethnic group in the US. Probably similar in Canada but haven’t seen these numbers.
#186 Sail Away on 06.10.20 at 10:37 pm
#134 Faron on 06.10.20 at 5:52 pm
#121 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 5:08 pm
#95 Faron on 06.10.20 at 3:37 pm
#41 Sail away on 06.10.20 at 12:44 pm
#26 Faron on 06.10.20 at 11:55 am
—
Go read the thread again to see how you carried yourself away. TLDR: I despise Musk and do not see a slot for a Tesla in my life. Dollar for dollar, owning a Tesla would never be a smart choice for me. I think TSLA is overvalued based on the information I have. Because I think that, it does not meet my risk criteria. TSLA gives me the garbage feeling the RE in Van, VIc and TO does. Overhyped and overvalued — to me.
YDY and Enjoy your $$$
#187 Cowtown Cowboy on 06.10.20 at 11:09 pm
Wife is on her 4th 4-runner, I’m on a new Tundra, roll them over every 3-4 yrs, pocket $5-10k over the residual and do it again.. eventually I’ll need to buy one out but then I plan on putting about 1,000,000 miles on it..probably still be running long after I’m not..wouldn’t consider ever buying anything else
—————–
4Runners are great. That’s our other vehicle. It does serious duty during hunting season. Two major issues in 30 years of 4Runners: one leaking oil seal fried diff- needed new axle, blown head gasket at 460k on 20 yo vehicle- scrapped it, bought another 4Runner.
I can just sleep in the back on a diagonal with the dogs if needed. Sleeping in the Tesla is a luxury hotel room in comparison.
#79 Keith on 06.10.20 at 2:48 pm
No sane person wants to get money for nothing. The rotting of the soul, whether it’s trustafarians or addicts on welfare that comes from not having to work for a living is well documented.
=================================
By that standard, a significant percentage of Canada’s populate is insane, because they have made getting paid for nothing their goal in life.
Work for minimum wage when you can just sit on your ass watching tv, eating cheetos and smoking dope (not that I have anything against any of those activities – on your own dime) and make nearly as much with no employment-related expenses. Plenty attractive to lots of people.
#235 SunShowers on 06.11.20 at 11:03 am
—————–
“McDonalds stores in Canada/USA don’t compete with McDonalds stores in China/India.
If the McDonalds stores in Canada raise prices 25%, I won’t go to India to get a cheaper Big Mac, and I can’t order a Big Mac made for less in China to be shipped to me through Amazon.”
The global economy is obviously a lot bigger than McDonald’s.
Put prices up 25% CAD for a Big Mac in Canada and watch the blood flow.
Make a Chinese McDonald’s charge 4.00 USD for a Big Mac and watch them go out of business over night.
They are already slowly sinking even with the prices where they’re at now in the US.
“But if YOUR business is big enough so that unlike fast food joints, it DIRECTLY competes with other companies on a global scale, how many people do you have working for minimum wage?“
Maybe 1 or 2 teen labourers. You can’t get tradespeoplekind for minimum wage.
Careful, there is a lot more at play than just wages when you are not reselling, hawking a common item, or offering a franchised product.
If in our business, price was the only concern, we’d have been dead long ago, and frankly; we are indeed a slowly dying industry…
Do you have an opinion on this article, Garth?
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/coronavirus-banks-collapse/612247/
(a) Doom sells. (b) No relevance for Canadian banks. – Garth
@#183 Sail Away on 06.10.20 at 10:26 pm
#128 Shirl Clarts on 06.10.20 at 5:37 pm
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
(people of all races can be born on third base but I digress)
——————-
Really? A bit of an ignorant statement, don’t you think?
Garth, I would have deleted this.
——————-
Ignorant? There’s only one ignorant statement in the above, Shirl, and it ain’t El Jefe’s.
Good thing you’re not the moderator or we’d be boxed into your tiny worldview.
–
wouldnt delete it but theres no question you guys are ignorant.
DELETED
I could not get any Temp workers to unload a container 2 weeks ago.
The Temp agency said they had 4 companies waiting for workers and no one showed up all week for work because of CERB.
Luckily my Teenagers rallied a group of friends and got the job done.
I don’t know what will happen to us when the kids are back at school and CERB is still paying people to refuse work?
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
******************************************
When we talk about people being born on third base and white privilege (people of all races can be born on third base but I digress) T2 was born with an automatic out of the park homerun. How else can someone with no credentials and weak academics become leader of a nation? Birthright and very stupid voters. The results are underwhelming.
#183 Sail Away on 06.10.20 at 10:26 pm
#194 Nonplused on 06.11.20 at 12:17 am
The moderator usually does a good job catching these.
I’ll just say what Garth would say, but hasn’t got the time to say.
Don planted a trigger statement about race into his usual political “Canada sucks” drivel, and then conveniently digresses.
Not ignorant? Try telling anyone of color that they are privileged and they will educate you. Do you also defend the “All Lives Matter” movement?
Remember, just because you are writing comments on a little hole in the wall blog, doesn’t mean you won’t infect someone with your ignorance.
So, unless you are genuinely trying to part of the solution, shut your holes about race. And remember, it’s a finance blog FIRST, and a political blog SECOND.
#236 SunShowers on 06.11.20 at 11:14 am
#232 SoggyShorts on 06.11.20 at 10:35 am
But if you do want to stick with McDonald’s then I’ll have to invoke the automation rebuttal.
—————–
One reason why your decision to invoke automation is a bad one, is because McDonalds is literally automating right now as we speak, even with a $7 minimum wage in some states.
******************************
Actually, that’s why it’s a great example, and why I used it(duh).
Mcdonald’s automating is very obviously about wages and future-proofing against your position. Or do you think it’s a coincidence that those kiosks started coming in to all states when some started raising the minimum wage?
—————————
1) Make minimum wage a living wage.
Isn’t it already? A couple making minimum wage in Alberta takes home over $50,000 after taxes leaving them around $100 per day after rent and utilities.
How much more should you get as an absolute minimum?
2) Pay fast food workers that higher minimum wage.
As I said, entire industries would die because margins are very small and customers won’t pay more.
3) Pay jobs that require more skill/training/education than fast food more than minimum wage.
We do. That’s already how it works. Or are you saying everyone at all levels should get raises?
That’s called inflation.
————————–
McDonalds stores in Canada/USA don’t compete with McDonalds stores in China/India.
If the McDonalds stores in Canada raise prices 25%, I won’t go to India to get a cheaper Big Mac, and I can’t order a Big Mac made for less in China to be shipped to me through Amazon.
But if YOUR business is big enough so that unlike fast food joints, it DIRECTLY competes with other companies on a global scale, how many people do you have working for minimum wage?
****************************
Again, cherry-picking McDonald’s. Many entire industries compete globally even if the individual company doesn’t seem to– think about any manufacturing, processing, agriculture, or retail job for starters.
Automation and online shopping are going to be more and more prevalent as the tech-savvy generations become the dominant demographic.
Bumping minimum wage for labor that is replaceable/outsourcable will hasten the process significantly.
#239 Don Guillermo on 06.11.20 at 11:32 am
#194 Nonplused on 06.11.20 at 12:17 am
#128 Shirl Clarts on 06.10.20 at 5:37 pm
#17 Don Guillermo on 06.10.20 at 11:18 am
(people of all races can be born on third base but I digress)
^^^^^^^^^
Really? A bit of an ignorant statement, don’t you think?
Garth, I would have deleted this.
———————-
It’s surprising how many of the world’s millionaires and billionaires are not “white”. Most of them don’t live in Canada though. And I have many friends who are not “white” and are doing just fine in Canada. I do believe we have “systemic racism” in Canada, but it is a pretty light version compared to the US
*****************************************
Stats show that Asians are the most affluent ethnic group in the US. Probably similar in Canada but haven’t seen these numbers.
——
Smart too. Harvard struggles with cutting back its intake of Asians.
Maybe Shirl should work on something worthwhile like restoring my white privilege asap.
#235 SunShowers on 06.11.20 at 11:03 am
Never has anything I have ever said on this website or any others come remotely close to “pay everyone the same amount.”
1) Make minimum wage a living wage.
2) Pay fast food workers that higher minimum wage.
3) Pay jobs that require more skill/training/education than fast food more than minimum wage.
This is not difficult.
— ——-
If you want this to happen, you’ll have to start advocating for an end to immigration.
Once you lose your rights you never get them back again. You quarrantine for months, you prove your health? Nope.
You stand 6 feet apart. Nope not good enough.
You must be masked and muzzled in order to transact commerce. There is no proof of innocence or health available. This is global. The globalists have taken over the world all at once.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/masks-must-be-worn-commercial-businesses-guelph-wellington-1.5606133?
Covid-19 Patient Gets Double Lung Transplant, Offering Hope for Others
The operation is believed to be the first of its kind in the U.S. The patient, a woman in her 20s, had been healthy, but the coronavirus devastated her lungs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/health/coronavirus-lung-transplant.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
(Warning some of the pictures are graphic)
Wow – seems like an over reaction to something that is just a flu, especially considering the age and prior health of the patient. Wait till TurnipNation gets his hands on this. I am thinking a trailer full of Reynolds Wrap will be needed to produce an explanation. Maybe it was staged like the moon landing or the patient is just a crisis actor working the Gram.
Or maybe, there are still many unknowns about this virus and for some, young or old, the consequences are devastating.
#208 Howard on 06.11.20 at 6:44 am
#177 Drinking on 06.10.20 at 9:56 pm
#171 Mr Canada
My generation; Gen-X just does not understand that mentality, graduated in a severe recession, no internet, sky high interests rates, loan, ha, kicked you out the front door before you even arrived
—————————————-
Interest rates were “sky high” in the 90s? They were high in 1990-91, but for the rest of the decade remained between 4-7% aside from a few blips. High by today’s standards but not historically.
And to even out your sob story, what were your education and housing costs back then?
———
I don’t think any response to your question will make a difference. You’re just a loser who likes to whine and play victim. Everyone has it hard…you’re nothing special. Really. Nothing special.
See. That’s what I think of your sob story. I look at you and know my life is fantastic.
Yay!
#249 SoggyShorts on 06.11.20 at 12:20 pm
Bumping minimum wage for labor that is replaceable/outsourcable will hasten the process significantly.
——
Yep. We have almost zero union competition anymore. These dudes pretty much have only govy projects left where union labour is mandated at this point. Been going this way for years and years. We have several of them on staff who had to throw in the towel because they were only getting a couple months worth of work per year, or who’s union employer folded.
Same process of high wages = no job after it’s pushed too far.
#248 Shirl Clarts on 06.11.20 at 12:18 pm
Not ignorant? Try telling anyone of color that they are privileged and they will educate you.
——
I told one Pakistani customer of mine that he had more white privilege than I do.
He said “yes, God has blessed me greatly, and I give him thanks every day”.
Summary of my “education” – non white dude is doing just fine.
Now what?
#248 Shirl Clarts on 06.11.20 at 12:18 pm
So, unless you are genuinely trying to part of the solution, shut your holes about race. And remember, it’s a finance blog FIRST, and a political blog SECOND.
— —
No solution needed. No problem present. Lots of non whites doing great in Canada. Most of them would probably tell you to take your bleeding SJW heart and shove it up your @ss. They got work to do.
Think they want to hear your minority victim bs?
Better think again.
…the advent of the T2 Generation.
Lazy, entitled, selfish, pompous.
T2 created them in his image!
Like wow! Give them a little rope and they will do the job themselves. Classic. Garth is just letting that dog run.
#257 IHCTD9 on 06.11.20 at 1:17 pm
No solution needed. No problem present. Lots of non whites doing great in Canada. Most of them would probably tell you to take your bleeding SJW heart and shove it up your @ss. They got work to do.
Think they want to hear your minority victim bs?
Better think again.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
“No problem present?” – You are genuinely part of the problem.
“Lots of non whites doing great in Canada?” – Of course, fool. There are also lots of females with larger salaries than men, but that doesn’t mean pay inequality doesn’t exist.
“Most of them would probably tell you to take your bleeding SJW heart and shove it up your @ss.” – Actually, they would applaud seeing a bigot like you getting shut down.
Man, you are clueless! Stop talking before you embarrass yourself further. Actually, I’m pretty sure your ‘regard meter’ (and the others) with the other blog dogs took a big hit today.
Good job!
#254 Stone on 06.11.20 at 1:00 pm
You seem confused. Early dementia, or low IQ?
It was the person I was responding to who was complaining, not me. Try to read more carefully next time.
#242 RyYYZ on 06.11.20 at 11:45 am
#79 Keith on 06.10.20 at 2:48 pm
No sane person wants to get money for nothing. The rotting of the soul, whether it’s trustafarians or addicts on welfare that comes from not having to work for a living is well documented.
=================================
By that standard, a significant percentage of Canada’s populate is insane, because they have made getting paid for nothing their goal in life.
Work for minimum wage when you can just sit on your ass watching tv, eating cheetos and smoking dope (not that I have anything against any of those activities – on your own dime) and make nearly as much with no employment-related expenses. Plenty attractive to lots of people.
—————————————————————–
Keith, you could have added having a government job to that list.
#248 Shirl Clarts on 06.11.20 at 12:18 pm
I’ll just say what Garth would say, but hasn’t got the time to say.
Not ignorant? Try telling anyone of color that they are privileged and they will educate you. Do you also defend the “All Lives Matter” movement?
——————-
Shirl,
Your first statement is telling.
And I took your advice for the second. Here’s the dialogue:
Me: “Sail Away, you seem to be well-off with a successful company, no bills, nice house, awesome hunting dogs, and nearly everything a body could desire. You also sit on a number of influential boards in the community. It seems like you are privileged. What do you think?”
Sail Away: “Yes, I do feel privileged, to some degree. I was given a bit of extra funding and support in grad school due to Hispanic heritage, and of course, have always had the strong community of La Raza to call upon. Beyond that, though, it seems all races are on pretty much the same playing field, although my firm seems to get more sole-source contracts than our competition. That’s probably due to competence, though.
My experience elsewhere through life, in the army, overseas, and in business in general has always been one of equality. Except those damn SJWs: if only they would stop pandering. It’s embarassing.”
Me: “Gracias, amigo. Hasta luego.”
Shirl,
Spouting off bs about the disadvantaged, of which you are not a part and have no idea about, smacks of condescension. Like charity to a proud family: they’d rather starve.
If anyone pulls that crap in a business deal with me, I take them for all they’re worth. Even a hint of minority, disadvantaged or unfair and the price goes way up. Got an engineering job you need done, by the way? Your eyes will water at the price… but you’ll pay… because pandering.
The phrase “I make more on CERB than…” is immediately problematic. You didn’t “make” the CERB money – it is a welfare handout and your existence is being subsidized by people that are actually making money.
As years go by, I am starting to see so many examples of why financial literacy is a growing issue. It’s not only for the obvious reasons of how to manage your personal finances to stay out of debt and finance your future – you also need to understand how businesses are run and governments are financed. I mean, you have people working in banks in Canada that don’t understand this stuff…