A year ago it looked like the guys running Canada would spend $20 billion more than they raised. Not good. Now that’s $252 billion more. Ooops, wait. We forgot the emergency money to cities, off-reservation native folks, pregnant women and… well… you know. Plus what happens when the CERB ends and a few million people are jobless but can’t live on their EI?
Odds are the deficit will be $300 billion, or six times the worst Harper year. That would increase the federal debt by half. In one year. A record. And still there’ll be an army of unemployed and many shuttered businesses. Revenues will fall. Social spending will rise. If the Trudeau gang decides we need a UBI, it all gets a lot worse. Meanwhile – OMG, Becky – look at this…
Where does it end?
With taxes, of course. The need for cash will be insatiable. And enduring. Some believe we’ve crossed the Rubicon, thanks to this virus. Now we all get a pony.
Well, this is a profound problem. These days four in ten households pay no net federal income tax, thanks to benefits like the cash-for-kids program. That leaves the other six to fund it all. But most of them (90%) earn less than $81,000. Hmm, so the top 10% of us – anybody earning $96,000 or more – currently bring in a little more than a third of all the income but already pay 54% of all the taxes.
Let me repeat. Ten per cent of Canadians pay 54% of the income tax. Of those, just a sliver are ‘rich’. The top 1% (earning $235,000 or more) number only 271,000. (Of those, 120,000 live in Ontario.)
This is why ‘taxing the rich’ won’t work. We don’t have enough to milk. Already the top tax bracket is 54% in a majority of provinces, while the few uber-wealthy families with billions have most of that money invested in businesses employing hundreds of thousands.
However most little beavers don’t know this. Or believe it. And now that the government just found $250 billion under the couch to give away during a crisis, there’s a giant expectation income support programs should stay in place, and ‘the working wealthy’ should finance them. In order to retain power, the prime minister (inheritor of a trust fund) and the finance guy (inheritor of a family business) plus his wife (inheritor of a food empire) agree. So bend over.
If you’re unfortunate enough to earn a few hundred thousand or have a couple of million in assets there will be an illicit group hug behind my bank building at four. Be there. Be strong. In the meantime, and in anticipation of what the next budget may well bring, consider this…
Capital gains. If there was ever an excuse for the feds to goose the inclusion rate, it came with the virus. Currently half the profit made on investment assets (properties as well as ETFs or stocks etc.) is taxed as income. That reduces the maximum capital gains tax to about 26%. T2 may give in to yet another NDP demand, and increase inclusion to 75%. The effective tax rate would be 40% – a huge jump.
Solution: you might wish to crystalize some accrued cap gains this year. Before the deluge.
Retained earnings. Despite all the yadda-yadda, we-love-small-biz talk from the feds, they actually hate you. Especially those entrepreneurs and professionals using corporations to earn income, distribute dividends and retain earnings in a lower-taxed environment. Two years ago Bill Morneau launched an attack on PCs, backed off under negative pressure, but is likely to reengage. So expect the threshold to fall on the amount of passive income a corp can earn before hitting the tax wall.
Solution: take salary, not dividends to max out RRSP contribution room. Repay after-tax shareholder loans, borrow money from the corporation, use the funds to expand or find other means to drain capital before fed fingers filch it.
New tax bracket: Remember when Trudeau created a special hoovering for people earning over $220,000? He said the money would pay for a middle-class tax cut equaling $8 per family (on average). It didn’t. But he will try again. Accountants that I skydive and luge with tell me they expect yet another bracket to emerge from the budget – somewhere around the $650,000 mark, which is what 0.01%ers average. Unfortunately there are only 27,000 of them, and they all read this blog.
Solution: Time to look at establishing a family trust and shifting investment income to less-taxed offspring. Also consider a hefty spousal loan, moving capital into the hands of a less-taxed partner so s/he can earn investment returns that won’t be attributed to you (plus deductible interest). Proper estate planning is a must, with secondary and tertiary wills if you have multiple assets (and your province permits them), proper beneficiary and successor-holder designations, a trust structure and an institutional executor.
Or, the Libs could just be fair about things and increase the GST. Tax spending rather than gutting income. Combine that with a flat tax and give everyone a condo. How is any of that hard?
297 comments ↓
Trump has crossed his Rubicon.
Will he be crowned Ceasar, or will he go down in flames in November?
Stay tuned.
Double tax housing. And make non residents pay 3x property tax to go to the federal government
The anecdotal level of Covid benefit cheating is shocking.
Part-time nothing “businesses”, pseudo part-time students, double dippers, and many more are on the teat.
Listening to Trudeau’s daily virtue signalling is unbearable as he firehoses out the dollars to every sub-group he can think of to buy their votes.
I always that I would be happy to be first, but I’m not, being first is lonely as the comments section is barren, like my life is working from home. Why are folks so excited to be first?
I’m not sure why people are dissing T2.
All countries in the West (even in capitalistic HongKong), have opened the spigots.
What were his options?
I think, overall he’s doing a good job, considering the situation he’s in.
Certainly better than the wannabe Churchill.
Should be Phyyrrzzrt !
Trudeau…maintain your socialist distance of 3000 km away !!!
No mention of the movement going on in the US. The Canadian dollar has benefited so far but what does that mean for us?
Guarantied income? Apparently Toronto Real Estate Board will have 10 to 20 percent less agents. They are hoping for at least $3,000 a month to start.
hello,
we’re in the middle of a pandemic! If you turn the taps off then you may as well tell everyone to get a gun and a dog.
Hi Garth,
Re: your speculation that the inclusion rate for Capital Gains will increase from 50% to something higher…
Q: Do you suspect this will be an arbitrary date mid-year, or would be as of start of the 2021 taxation year on Jan 1st?
Why tax income? Why not put 2% points back on the GST for 20 years to pay off the Covid debt? Bonus: since Harper cut billions in revenue by dropping those points, make it look like this was all HIS fault.
Or, of course, they can just sit with the debt for a year or two (at ultra-low interest cost) and then inflate it away over a decade or so. Pick your poison.
We just rec’d CRA corp tax stmt with tax owing. we could’ve taken Sept 1 delay but we had the money (fortunately) so we paid it.
We also had a trades person do some emergency outside work and we were happy to have cash on hand to pay esp after we found out he and his wife foster young children incl babies. I’m sure some will be skeptical of their intentions but I assure you they’re just good people. They have a bit of money saved and they’re ‘OK’ and this is how they choose to use some of it. A much needed bright light these days and restored a little faith in humanity and life.
Tax all income sources equally.
Simple, honest and fair.
A dollar is a dollar is a dollar.
The moneys in the corps Garth.
There are 200,000 docs and lawyers in the country. They are all 1%ers I would bet.
We are actively telling our high net worth clients to talk to their advisors and start taking the tax hit now on capital gains. It’s going to have to be paid at some point, might as well try and avoid $100’s of thousands in tax down the road.
A tax avoidance is to purchase a box of liquor every time I go past the store.
Gonna be sin taxed mega later!
Gst will go up, probably 7-8%.
15.18 million CERB applications.
18.6 million in the Labour Force (April).
31.1 million 15 years or older (April).
2 months, 8.33 million have burned thru $42.59 Billion in cash.
Up to 4 months paid, available until Oct. 3rd.
———————
It’s just too depressing to do the Math.
As for the tax burden…mind boggling.
Or, the Libs could just be fair about things and increase the GST. Tax spending rather than gutting income. Combine that with a flat tax and give everyone a condo. How is any of that hard?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Or T2 could just take the handcuffs off the oilpatch and let us save the Canadian economy…. again…. again….again…again…again…
VAT is a regressive tax (offset by exempting some goods and giving very low income tax payers a GST rebate cheque). Increasing it would make goods and services more expensive in a time of falling demand and lower incomes generally.
I don’t think it’s great tax policy to juice it. That said, the 2% cut that the Cons did was stupid.
Goose corporate income tax rates. They are too low.
You can learn something new everyday here.
“Becky, a shortened version of the given name Rebecca, is a pejorative American slang term for a white woman. The term has come to be associated with a “white girl who loves Starbucks and Uggs and is clueless about racial and social issues”, according to the New Statesman”
CNN headquarters attacked in Atlanta… priceless!!
Funny no coverage of the anti-media component of the riots/protests?
It’s always better to implement consumption taxes, instead of increasing income tax. Big spenders won’t miss an extra 5% in GST
Your rippled abs allow you to skydive and luge?
Well well I’ve been wondering here what will they do with the closed Sports stadiums .Jails? Forced needle sites?
Or this. Nothing is left to chance, and now this massive undertaking.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/rogers-centre-to-soon-transform-into-giant-food-bank-facility-amid-pandemic-1.4963421
TORONTO — Rogers Centre, the home of the Toronto Blue Jays, is going to be temporarily converted into a giant food bank facility.
Rogers Communications and the Jays Care Foundation have announced a new initiative, called Step Up to the Plate, to support Food Banks Canada.
They say the stadium, currently in disuse because of the COVID-19 pandemic and the suspension of the Major League Baseball season, will house more than 4.5 million kilograms of food.
I think they need to create different classes of capital gains.
a) a life time exemption of $1,000,000 from stocks OR real estate
b) lower than current values for investments in startups or new companies
c) higher rates than current for staid, mature companies like banks and telcos, railways, etc.
This will encourage the average Canadian to invest in small companies, not just homes, and also tax passive income for the wealthy at a higher rate.
The Federal Liberals are brain dead.
Is that Terry David Mulligan??
Seems to me that an increase in GST would be a better catch-all, more fair, efficient and less costly to administer. We are also all familiar with it and accept it. All of these things would of course make it an unreasonae choice for our current leadership.
Did anyone catch Trudeau’s daily today? When asked about current events in the USA, he stood there, silent, like an utter buffoon, to the point where it was uncomfortable to watch.
Embarrassing.
I really wonder why anyone thinks voting for Trudeau is a good thing. Paul Martin was a very different person. At least he understood the economy… Mr. socks is completely lost and a Butts puppet. God help us all. Socialism on steroids coming if he wins a majority or even a minority with the NDP nipping as his ankles. Do something Conservatives. Where are you ???
After seeing that CERB page, reading about the taxes or alternative increase in consumption taxes…time to pack your bags folks and move somewhere else.
Not even the Italian Mafia is THAT BRAZEN at stealing money from hard working people for generations to come.
Honestly, as a Liberal, if Trudeau gets re-elected then Canada has lost its fiscal mind.
It will be lucky in the future to make the G70 let alone the G7.
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I keep saying it will get better Canada and it will when people get back to work.
One thing that will not get better is the pile of debt that has to paid back, unless Canada wants to end up like threadbare Gov Italia.
That’s a huge gap between the unique and total applications. EI duplication? Double dipping? Fraud? Russians? Maybe the tattletale hotline stats could be added to the dashboard.
YaY #1
Thanks Garth for the advice, wondering what is the cost of setting a family trust. And who to trust to build that trust infrastructure? Is there any pitfalls ,traps (like home-buying or renting , rental or lease or purchase agreements, traps like in BRA etc… ) to take care. What is your recommended reading/advice for this ? What is the best way to move stuff you already have into a-family trust ?
I come across this one while searching but not sure if it covers everything…
http://madanca.com/articles/entry/how-to-setup-your-family-trust-in-canada/
Well, there’s other taxpayers than families. Large corporations have dodges paying proper taxes for years to the tune of billions. (I’m looking at you, Amazon)
Between loopholes and offshore accounts, there’s a lot of tax avoidance going on.
I would sincerely hope that looking at closing those loopholes and finding a way to claim that tax from huge corporations would be investigated as a means of income. The need is great, and they can certainly afford it. Especially if they’d been hoarding untaxed profits for so long.
Hopefully this epic debt burden will light a fire to get that particular issue under control. According to a Toronto Star investigation, Canada’s largest 102 corporations avoided paying $62.9 billion worth of taxes between 2011 and 2016.
That kind of money won’t solve the problem, but it would absolutely help.
Garth, the lowering of the GST rate by your former boss was indeed a very bad idea.
He didn’t ask me. – Garth
to look like a bum and be poor on paper. Always was really …
Thanks one more time on multiple wills, never knew if i did not read your blog :
https://ca.rbcwealthmanagement.com/documents/634020/634036/The+Navigator+-+Multiple+Wills.pdf/c6545796-b58b-4fc7-bb35-33337c4e8153
I’m still bitter about BC referendum when they gave up free money from the fed and elected to keep the PST/GST combo…
But do you think the government will do a cost/benefit analysis? i.e. the capital gain inclusion rate vs not? Decisions like these shouldn’t be based on “we need money, raise taxes”… it should be scenario A vs scenario B, which one brings more taxes.
Under scenario A, we increase income and prosperity, which brings in more tax. (i.e. leave alone, encourage business growth and investment)
Under scenario B, we increase taxes, but may hinder growth in certain sectors, decreasing income taxes.
Then just decide between A and B… and everything in-between on ‘just-the-right-rate’.
OR, do you think govt a-la Trudeau Morneau not smart enough to do this?
People don’t understand the numbers. You need to show the number of people in each tax bracket, and tax collected by each bracket. Then to scare the people show the cost of the debt over the years per person. People think that government sets interest rates. I fear by the time people understand how bad things are, it will be too late.
“How is any of that hard?” Introducing the GST destroyed Mulroney’s career; cutting it made Harper’s. It would be easy if Canadians as a whole would actually think about things and let facts rather than emotion drive them. Of course, we get no help with that from politicians, who have found exploiting emotions much easier than building consensus around good policy… yes, I know, chicken and egg, but I expect more from those who think so highly of themselves as to pursue the conceit of leadership.
reply to #33 – here’s the link:
https://projects.thestar.com/canadas-corporations-pay-less-tax-than-you-think/
We’ll see what happens. We’ve heard this before. But can countries be boiled down to tax levels?
Diane Francis doesn’t think so:
Why America burns
-The solution isn’t about “socialism” versus “freedom” or “free enterprise.” The European Union, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and other enlightened nations have free societies and prosperous capitalist economies, but also provide great schools, health care and housing for a large number of their citizens”
“They haven’t swallowed the American myth that low taxes for those who can afford to pay more results in “trickle down” benefits to everyone below them. The numbers prove that the taxes that individuals and corporations do not pay doesn’t create jobs for the rest. The spare cash is mostly invested in automation, offshoring to Mexico or China, buying stock back to benefit shareholders, doling out high executive salaries or flooded into offshore bank accounts to further reduce or eliminate taxes for the rich.”
https://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-this-is-why-america-burns
Ouch.
MF
Thanks Garth,
For keeping it light.
Your sense of humor is always appreciated during these tough times.
I’m not a fan of CNN but came across this and have to share.
Watch Wingnut Trudeau’s response and count your seconds.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/02/justin-trudeau-trump-response-silence-vpx.ctv/video/playlists/top-news-videos/
#8 Paul
“Fewer” agents
It just occurred to me that all of the people in the comment section (and featured in the article itself) who complained about losing workers to the CERB were probably paying those workers peanuts to begin with.
The CERB works out to something like $12.50 an hour full time, which is actually below the minimum wage for every province except MB, SK, NFLD, and NB. So let’s say through some opportunity cost calculus, it might be worth a full time workers while to stay home if they’re being paid $15.00 an hour or less.
Well, have you tried paying them more than a token amount above minimum wage? If you pay them more, they’ll have an incentive to come to work instead of staying home and collecting CERB!
What do you think it says about your worker compensation practices if the government will pay your workers only marginally less TO DO NOTHING than you will for them to put in 40 hours a week?
Have you ever considered that maybe if you need to underpay your workers to this extent, you have no business running a company?
This post which will be derided as a product of Millennial idealism has been brought to you by the number 1933, and the letters F, D, and R.
Don’t you just love a government that perceives the working labour force as an asset to be milked as required.
In 2019/20 personal income tax provided 50% of all revenues collected by the Government of Canada.
Revenue from corporations generated an additional 13.5% of GOC revenue while GST chipped in another
12 % of total GOC revenues.
The low hanging fruit represented over 75% of all GOC revenues in 2019/20. Today unemployment and small business closures have reached crisis levels. Any plans to squeeze additional revenue from the usual low hanging fruit might be in for a bit of a surprise.
How about trying to kickstart an expansion of our GDP by using a portion of the billions of dollars of investment funds within Canada to support underdeveloped countries who will be desperate for capital to expand their economies.
We could create hundreds of joint ventures to develop additional markets for Canadian goods and services as underdeveloped countries attempt to expand their economies. By providing irreproachable access to capital in world ravaged by an over reaction to Covid 19 Canada could become viewed in an entirely new light.
If the GOC can guarantee mortgage backed securities they should be able to guarantee investment focussed on expansion of Canadian GDP through international development.
Why not focus a portion of the trillions we have available for investment on creating a role for a Canada that we can be proud of.
Just a thought!!
#35 Jenn on 06.02.20 at 4:12 pm
Well, there’s other taxpayers than families. Large corporations have dodges paying proper taxes for years to the tune of billions. (I’m looking at you, Amazon)
Between loopholes and offshore accounts, there’s a lot of tax avoidance going on.
I would sincerely hope that looking at closing those loopholes and finding a way to claim that tax from huge corporations would be investigated as a means of income. The need is great, and they can certainly afford it. Especially if they’d been hoarding untaxed profits for so long.
—————
Jenn, can you explain what you mean here? Are you implying the corporations are doing something illegal?
More info please.
Who cares what percentage of taxes the top earners contribute? The indefensible fact is you do not need to be a top earner to have your basic needs met. If we allow the top earners to continue to weaponize these statistics, we will end up like the US.
How unsurprising will any of you find it when they raise ALL income Tax, Capital gains, and GST at the same time?
However, Taxing the top echelon much more heavily than the lower is generally a better idea because of a tenancy to horde massive amounts of capital, whereas letting the poor keep it will let them spend it on business, which flows back into those pockets.
Though as some have already stated here, those top echelons hide their money off-shore or with other schemes, so the effectiveness is limited.
The golden age of capitalism you all love is over. Where in the past the gov would break up monopolies to foster greater competition and innovation, the governments these days are too weak to do so, and monopolies are forming all around us.
It doesn’t matter; we’re all screwed. No one is going to go unaffected, whether it’s more taxes, less programs, less competition among companies, etc.
Garth,
Do you think they will skim a certain % off the top of RRSPs or TFSA above a certain $ amount? i.e. TFSA $s are tax free up until, say $500K, then everything above that automatically spills to a non-registered account? etc…
Heard anything on this front?
Not happening. – Garth
From my way of looking at it Canada has been in a situation of stagflation for a while. Wages have not moved much, but the prices of housing, food, cars and trucks, rent and basic goods have gone up and up.
We have compensated for the stagflation with low interest rates which have artificially goosed certain sectors of the economy, most noticeably housing.
Persistently low interest rates are a sign of an unhealthy economy which is on life support.
Stagflation can persist for generations unless something happens to upset the balance.
We have COVID-19.
This could be the thing that tips us over.
I am becoming increasingly unsettled by what I am seeing happening in Canada.
#2 Rick Fast on 06.02.20 at 3:28 pm
Double tax housing. And make non residents pay 3x property tax to go to the federal government
“““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““
Hey Ricky, You want that on all three of your houses? Oh wait you don’t own sh*t
Did not know you luged Garth. Another inspired column and a keeper in my scrapbook in the cloud. Maybe a more fulsome explanation of the family trust idea. I have pot smoking 20 something professional student in the basement and have no idea when he will grow up.
#44 James on 06.02.20 at 4:27 pm
I’m not a fan of CNN but came across this and have to share.
Watch Wingnut Trudeau’s response and count your seconds.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/02/justin-trudeau-trump-response-silence-vpx.ctv/video/playlists/top-news-videos/
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In my opinion, that is one of the most thoughtful, tactful and helpful statements Trudeau has ever made when asked to comment on the US.
Thumbs up.
#50 SeeB on 06.02.20 at 4:36 pm
Though as some have already stated here, those top echelons hide their money off-shore or with other schemes, so the effectiveness is limited.
————
How are they hiding money? Please explain. Details would be helpful.
#24 Victorian on 06.02.20 at 3:57 pm
It’s always better to implement consumption taxes, instead of increasing income tax. Big spenders won’t miss an extra 5% in GST
______________
Too bad the poorest will miss an extra 5% GST on goods and services they buy.
Increases in GST need to be tempered with some way to offset the cost to the low and middle earners, it is very regressive otherwise.
And a flat tax? Really? Are you trying to put me out of a job, Garth?
Please, please, please tell me how Harper would have done anything different in these pandemic times. Oooooooh….. what does the crystal ball say.
Well, there’s other taxpayers than families. Large corporations have dodges paying proper taxes for years to the tune of billions. (I’m looking at you, Amazon)
#35 Jenn
Between loopholes and offshore accounts, there’s a lot of tax avoidance going on.
I would sincerely hope that looking at closing those loopholes and finding a way to claim that tax from huge corporations would be investigated as a means of income. The need is great, and they can certainly afford it. Especially if they’d been hoarding untaxed profits for so long.
—–
#48 Jenn, can you explain what you mean here? Are you implying the corporations are doing something illegal?
More info please.
——-
I fully agree with Jenn here. Nothing illegal and not falling for the bait Mr. Sail away. However, the loopholes for tax avoidance (not evasion) that corporations together with the uber-waelthy with their well-paid advisors and lawyers have used and exploited is well-documented. This needs to be tightened up, and putting up the capital gains exclusion a bit is not unreasonable. Then, we need to increase the GST so that all consumers are involved in paying back the handouts.
Yes, and the talk will always be that even if corporate taxes are raised a tiny iota, a massive number of companies will relocate south of the border etc. The recent events down there certainly make that idea very appealing (sarcastic..). There will be other companies setting up in Canada to fill the void.
One really good news event today is that it looks like Trudeau’s foot-dragging on the Huawei decision is becoming more moot. Major telecoms going now with Erickson (and Nokia) as they should do….
Hi Dogs,
Do you think there would be some risks holding short term provincial bond ETF as we start to hear some could go bankrupt ? 3% return looks descent on the top of those bonds working to balance the portfolio ? Are the Provinces backed by the Federal in case of bankruptcy ? All the best to all blog dogs, even the leftists one !
Taxing the rich will not provide the necessary funds to bail us out of this deficit Loop holes, off shore tax Haven’s will not disappear over night if indeed they ever disappear. I think Canadians should prepare for a massive increase in a VAT tax, probably a re-branded GST. This would come in at about 22% and be applied to everything, including food. I fear we may be in for some very stringent times.
In order to retain power, the prime minister (inheritor of a trust fund) and the finance guy (inheritor of a family business) plus his wife (inheritor of a food empire) agree.
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Fair enough. So will they and their political peers voluntarily disclose tax returns incl how much was paid or how much wasn’t and how (legally of course) say 2-3 yrs back as in avg CRA audit? Full transparency, no redacting w/true level of wealth. Didn’t Trudeau 2.0 promise transparency in govt? Most politicians do. Maybe the ire and pitchforks need to adjust their targets? If MDs start further reducing hrs and services then the same who complain about their income will do same about that. But carry on.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/should-all-politicians-publish-their-tax-returns-heres-what-we-might-find-57678
#46 SunShowers on 06.02.20 at 4:34 pm
Yep, CERB sets a minimum rate for labour in the free market. You want an operating business and want workers to leave the teat, raise your wages — in a simplistic sense. Through globalism, the labour market rates are diluted by people who live in lower cost of living environs so can afford to ask for less. This brings wages down here while maintaining or increasing corporate profitability so those same corps can pay CEOs, increase or maintain dividends and or buy back shares. Now that the investing class demands large or stable returns, the strip mining of wealth from the 90% continues to get worse through stagnant wage. And, guess what, if people earn more then they can pay a bit more in taxes.
#55Sail-It looked to me like the teleprompter stalled-he had a total deer in the headlights look for about 10 seconds and then just started reading the script.
The next year…
1. When CREB finishes and Mortgages are no longer deferred – Housing prices go down.
2. Syndicates with CASH will buy said houses.
3. Those who can pay to rent will rent.
4. Those that can’t pay for shelter/rent will be covered by said new taxes.
5. The Middle class as we know it is finished in this era of history.
6. The 1% will bathe in money daily, the poor will love UBI.
Welcome to our new world order.
#57 Toronto_CA on 06.02.20 at 4:54 pm
We agree here. Consumption taxes are regressive and flat taxes are worse still. Toronto_CA said it well. I’d go for a luxury tax.
I also agree that further taxing the consumption of a consumer driven economy will just extend the pain of the least well off and keep GDP growth in the pit.
Tax what you don’t want. Failing that, work to retain as much tax already in the code as possible by making it as hard as possible to offshore dollars. In my opinion, individual nations will never be able to do this because large corps will relocate. It would require a (probably impossible) unilateral effort.
MF points out that other nations are able to maintain a decent economy with steep and progressive taxation making up for that pain with world class schooling and medical care. This was one reason Sweden cited for taking a more lax approach toward COVID, if someone gets sick, the social support system is there for them with paid sick leave and excellent medical services.
Can’t wait until the blog or comments start flogging the dead austerity horse.
Did any government ever worry about the Bronfman’s (unpaid taxes) money or Bill the guy who forgot he owned a chateau?
“ Or, the Libs could just be fair about things and increase the GST.”
That’d be too regressive for the Libs…
You guys ragging on Trudeau pausing when asked about Trump today – what do you want him to do? Trump is searching out any mention of his name and any criticism in real time, you can bet on that. Anything Trudeau says most likely will just enrage Trump further. Do you want that? Do you want to be in the sights of the guy ready to call in the US military to combat his own citizens?
The situation in North America is summed up for me by a Robin Williams quote making the rounds. From an AMA on Reddit, 2013:
“Q: Can you come to Canada so I can hug you? I love you for naming your daughter Zelda.
Williams’ response: I will be there as soon as I can! You have to give me a more specific location, you are a big country. You are the kindest country in the world. You are like a really nice apartment over a meth lab.”
You wanna anger the guy running the meth lab right now? The guy with all the guns and the badly trained pitbulls? I sure as hell don’t.
Question:
Will they not gut or more heavily tax RRSP or TFSA now because a majority of those who actually have them still actually VOTE ?
But will be open season on them in 10 years time when the wealthy boomers are mostly dead?
Put the GST to 12% :)
This is the perfect time to jack this tax, as Canadians have been overspending on consumer goods that they don’t need and Covid-19 has made that plainly clear to all of us. We need to stop buying sh*t!
Also we need an anti-dynastic tax. Any money past $1M you leave to your silver-spoon fed children should be taxed at 100%.
The days of being a corporate baron, sleazy banker or even a perfectly-perfect financial blogger and then leaving your undeserving spawn millions of dollars worth of real-estate and cash should end now.
Tax the rich, indeed.
Wasn’t Justin promising a federal foreign buyers tax? Where is it? You’d think taxing rich non-Canadians would be a slam dunk.
#45 BillinBC on 06.02.20 at 4:28 pm
#8 Paul
“Fewer” agents
–
Jeez Sail Away, one post under your alias and you give it right away. And they call me a pedant?
Let’s be blunt..
WW3 is coming…but in a much more insidious form (unless you have been paying attention).
#66 Faron on 06.02.20 at 5:13 pm
#57 Toronto_CA on 06.02.20 at 4:54 pm
We agree here. Consumption taxes are regressive…
——————————
Why? Aren’t food staples GST-exempt anyway?
Why would it be unfair for people to pay more sales tax on an iPhone they don’t need?
Increasing consumption tax will prompt shopping addicts to think a little bit more whether they actually need all the stuff they buy.
In my lifetime, the only significant progress on the deficit and debt was made by the Chretien/Martin Liberals. They reduced the size of federal spending down to about 13% of GDP, and increased taxes, putting paid to both the NDP’s tax the rich and Conservatives encourage economic growth with tax cuts failed agendas in one fell swoop. We haven’t seen results like theirs ever since.
Of course, their process was ugly in the execution. Transfer payments to the provinces were cut, only B.C. and Alberta survived that process long term. Federally funded co op housing funding of 25,000 units per year disappeared entirely, setting in motion the housing crisis of Toronto and Vancouver that blew up completely decades later with rent increases that bore no relationship to incomes.
Apparently one of the biggest revenue sources was the freezing of the basic personal exemption, a hit to every taxpayer. I remember a town hall style meeting where a high level official with Revenue Canada was asked about the consequences for civil servants. He replied that he had calculated his lost income, in terms of pay freezes and pay increases below the rate of inflation, and income tax increases on his high level salary amounted to some 30%. There was considerable pain.
It could have happened a different way, but you cannot argue with the results. If you look at the fiscal graph over time, the Chretien years stand out with surpluses that came with eliminating an 80 billion deficit within three years, and years of surpluses.
There are many levers for the government to pull, sadly growth will be anemic, unemployment will persist and deficits will be stubborn. So much division in society already, the hue and cry will be deafening when the bitter medicine is forced upon us. Hang on to your assets.
hmmm me thinks we have come to the end of the age of work for many.. total disruption of the traditional workforce and structure.
Yet how do we finance the future thats the question. GT is correct not enough almost rich suckers who couldnt move their $$$ out of Canada fast enough to beat the taxman.
Cycle of $$$ is taxed too many times and usury a sin..
Used cars. Taxed everytime it changes hands at the public level… 15 year old car sells 5 times.. gov’t gets 5 hits.. everything same food, booze, clothes.. taxed at every stop in the distribution chain it stops at.
This blog has lots of complaining but never any solutions. Should they not have shut down economy? Even if they didn’t no one would’ve gone anywhere. Should people not buy houses? They’ve been going up for decades. If I tell anyone I know they made a mistake buying a house that’s now worth 800,000 more than they paid they’d kick me out of their house when I visit. Should Trudeau cut back services? Tax the poor instead of rich? Should people move to Barrie and hallow ouT the city? Like what’s the solutions Garth?
#69 NewWest on 06.02.20 at 5:16 pm
Just about spat out my coffee. RIP Robin Williams
BTW: Garth, thanks for your ongoing interesting posts and for the hard work you must have to do to pour through the comments here. Hopefully you have some AI or other computational support or, as we would do in academia, a grad student/intern.
Cheers. I/we owe you a drink!
My daughters Filipino nanny quit to go work for another family willing to pay her under the table while she collects CERB then UI.
Sunny ways!
Geez Garth.
Giving me a condo, I didnt think you disliked me that much.
The next decade 2021-2030
1. Low growth mostly worldwide due to an old age demographic in most developed countries including Canada of course.
2. Like Japan has done the past decade, Governments will print out of the Wazoo and own most everything yet still call it a democracy as said Old Folk still vote and said Gov’t lackeys will listen to keep their Golden pensions, etc.
3. Massive strife if the UBI are not enough to keep the masses fat, stupid and happy. Trust me, they will find a way…
4. 1%’ers will continue to do well even though they may not find ALL the ways to hide $$$$.
5. If you have a small biz, I hope you are offering essentials like basic food, clothing and a few offering booze/drugs/entertainment to take the edge off the change of lifestyle until us plebes get used to the new and improved movement of minimalism.
6. The black market will be huge as will bartering.
7. Government employees will stall have the GOLDEN TICKET though in smaller numbers.
8. Get used to less services provided.
9. Multi family living will be the norm.
10. When the old bastards die out, growth will return.
The media of course will pump out such great stories as to just how great the back to basics movement is, how it’s helping save the planet and how you are all such good people doing less and less with far less!
If you are under 30, I suggest you invest in paper bags to hopefully shock a few of us into death with a few well placed surprising bangs.
NOTE: If things do get out of hand, there is always a nice big WAR to thin the Herd…Covid was just a minor trail run.
Are you ready?
#58 unbalanced on 06.02.20 at 4:54 pm
Please, please, please tell me how Harper would have done anything different in these pandemic times. Oooooooh….. what does the crystal ball say.
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At the very least I think he’d recognize the insanity of paying people more in Covid welfare than what they were earning at the job from which they were furloughed.
Taxes will go up across the board; income, hst, eht, property, land transfer, capital gains, +++. Likely some form of inheritance tax and wealth tax as well.
Canada is going to feel this for a generation.
Unsurprisingly, I hear realtors pumping how the market will only go up as it’s the only ‘safe’ store of wealth.
system failure as its beyond repair..
TurnerNation is on to something.. a new system is a comn.
Gold backed Crypto maybe? Printing $$$ out of thin air and charging interest only can go on for so long
The Tax Exemption on principal residence is a endangered species squarely it the cross hairs of the tax man who thinks it will still be there in 24 months from now in its current form
#59 yvr_lurker on 06.02.20 at 4:55 pm
I fully agree with Jenn here. Nothing illegal and not falling for the bait Mr. Sail away. However, the loopholes for tax avoidance (not evasion) that corporations together with the uber-waelthy with their well-paid advisors and lawyers have used and exploited is well-documented.
———–
No bait whatsoever. If it’s legal, it’s legal. No? Yes?
Or are you saying, ‘There oughta be a law!’
Charlie Munger says: “I never allow myself to have an opinion on anything that I don’t know the other side’s argument better than they do.”
I’m ready for an informed, factual and logical discussion on offshoring anytime.
The majority of it will come from property taxes. My guess is 20% yearly increases.
Can’t avoid the taxes with offshore shenanigans.
They’ve got you by the short and curlies.
Goose the sector and take it all back and continue to overpay your compatriots.
I think it’s criminal.
You all voted for more taxes and you got them. Pretty soon those same taxes will kill your children.
Then you won’t be so smug.
#71 Amok on 06.02.20 at 5:19 pm
Put the GST to 12% :)
This is the perfect time to jack this tax, as Canadians have been overspending on consumer goods that they don’t need and Covid-19 has made that plainly clear to all of us. We need to stop buying sh*t!T
_____________
Yes, let’s make people buy less goods and services! That will help get us out of the worst economic decline since the great depression. I mean that’s on top of the regressive nature of consumption taxes. What is wrong with you people?
Also hey Faron; you know we agree on way more than we disagree on, right? Didn’t we establish that?
Not enough people here suggesting corporate tax rate increases. I also don’t mind more capital tax for large businesses in particular.
Flat transactional taxes make a lot of sense for their efficiency and transparency.
But we also need to ask why should anyone be making 10-50X or more the average salary of a working person in the private sector?
And why should a Premier or PM be making $250K or $350K, yet so many public bureaucrats, hospital executives and others in ‘publicly funded’ work be making $700K and more?
#83 Howard on 06.02.20 at 5:33 pm
At the very least I think he’d recognize the insanity of paying people more in Covid welfare than what they were earning at the job from which they were furloughed.
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For a full time worker, the CERB pays below the minimum wage in every single province and territory except 4.
Maybe jobs should be paying workers more in order to incentivize them to work instead of staying home and collecting CERB.
#54 baloney Sandwitch on 06.02.20 at 4:41 pm
Did not know you luged Garth. Another inspired column and a keeper in my scrapbook in the cloud. Maybe a more fulsome explanation of the family trust idea. I have pot smoking 20 something professional student in the basement and have no idea when he will grow up.
=======================
I am thinking, fougedabout the trust stuff.
Just go down and smoke some pot with him.
You might learn a few things.
#44 James on 06.02.20 at 4:27 pm
I’m not a fan of CNN but came across this and have to share.
Watch Wingnut Trudeau’s response and count your seconds.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/02/justin-trudeau-trump-response-silence-vpx.ctv/video/playlists/top-news-videos/
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James shame on you. I totally agree with #55 Sail Away.
That was one of the most thoughtful, tactful and helpful statements Trudeau has ever made when asked to to come out on the US and what did you do? You trivialized. You missed the mark. I agree with Dr. June Francis that here in Canada we think we are a colour blind society but the truth is we are blind to racism. Anti-black racism is endemic in Canada. Aboriginal People suffer from severe racism in Canada and you mock a man who is taking his time to say what needed to be said. Did we hear it and if so what will we do?
Does anyone really believe that if Harper had not reduced the GST for everyone. That the Liberals would have had a smaller deficit or would they have just spent more on pet projects. The answer to the debt is cut cut cut, and tax everyone. Those benefitting should pay some.
It’s been said the plan for the world order unfolding is the end of individual rights. Any evidence?
– Sounds like your money you earned no longer is yours; it will be given away to UN, WHO and UBI
– You lost the right to leave your homes
– You lost the right of travel (borders closed)
– You lost the right to be presumed healthy
– You lost the right to gather
– You lost the right to open/run your small business store
Have I missed any?
The social media bots were programming to spit out: Selfish people do these things! (An outbreak/hospitals will become overwhelmed.) Any scary thing to keep the medical martial law in place.
Individual rights are a selfish decadence from the Old System. In the New System we are all #inthistogether – see they told us from day one! Right there.
Everything is right in front of you. Unfolding daily.
#29 Lambchop on 06.02.20 at 4:01 pm
Did anyone catch Trudeau’s daily today? When asked about current events in the USA, he stood there, silent, like an utter buffoon, to the point where it was uncomfortable to watch.
Embarrassing.
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As someone for whom listening to this PM speak actually makes me nauseous, I must nonetheless disagree with you.
Taking a few moments to choose his words carefully on such a sensitive topic, rather than blurt out the first thing that entered his mind, was the right thing to do even if it was uncomfortable. Of course the response he came up with was standard left-wing SJW Toronto Star babble, but at least it didn’t contain anything that might piss off our largest trading partner.
#85 Headhunter:
Like the saying “It can go on longer than you can stay solvent.” Look at Japan.
#84 T: ANYONE working solely on Commission is MOST LIKELY ever going to tell the truth to protect their survival.
#71 Amok: 12% tax hurts those that can least afford the increase but I agree it is a solution…
I’m investing in a larger mattress to hide cash and a larger boat to transfer the gold/silver I have as a hedge to the middle of an accessible body of water.
Just wondering….
Say all of us who took risk to make a living, lived within our means, invested wisely and are now at a comfortable stage of life will be looked upon favourably for being what’s the word?? Oh yes RESPONSIBLE.
Compared to the person who lived well BEYOND their means, blew through the millions of earnings over 30 years, never invested or saved for a rainy day or the future that WILL be supported by the responsible ones by increased taxation, etc?
Nah….what was I dreaming by thinking and acting logically?
#75 Howard on 06.02.20 at 5:24 pm
#66 Faron on 06.02.20 at 5:13 pm
#57 Toronto_CA on 06.02.20 at 4:54 pm
We agree here. Consumption taxes are regressive…
——————————
Why? Aren’t food staples GST-exempt anyway?
Why would it be unfair for people to pay more sales tax on an iPhone they don’t need?
—-
You are right that it would disincentivise consumption and the argument is that isn’t what a recovering economy needs. You are right that, by
rate, it’s flat (neither prog. nor reg.) By effect it’s regressive. Say you earn 60k and I earn 30k. Say you are really frugal and we both have the same fixed costs to live say 25k per year. Food, rent, clothes, housewares etc. Some of those costs are subject to GST. If 60% of those fixed costs are taxable then that’s 15k taxed at 5% or $750 . For me that’s 2.5% of my income. For you it’s 1.25% and that’s regressive.
You may say that the 60ker will pay more because they will spend more and that’s true. But, if 25k is an unavoidable floor on cost of living, then the 60ker has options to decrease their tax rate while the 30ker has very few. Again, the impact relative to income is regressive. To pay a flat rate relative to income, the 60ker could spend another 15k on misc items just to get up to an even rate and still sock away 20k per year in their RRSP.
See what I’m sayin’?
#75 Howard on 06.02.20 at 5:24 pm
#66 Faron on 06.02.20 at 5:13 pm
#57 Toronto_CA on 06.02.20 at 4:54 pm
We agree here. Consumption taxes are regressive…
——————————
Why? Aren’t food staples GST-exempt anyway?
Why would it be unfair for people to pay more sales tax on an iPhone they don’t need?
Increasing consumption tax will prompt shopping addicts to think a little bit more whether they actually need all the stuff they buy.
______________________
It is regressive because the same rate of tax applies on purchases regardless of whether you’re rich or poor; and because poor spend much more of their after tax income on goods and services than the rich do.
Sorry you cannot in anyway say that VAT/GST is not regressive. Clumsy attempts are made by governments world over to combat the inherently regressive nature, by exempting basic groceries and residential rents and baby needs and lower rates on utilities.
But all it does is create careers out of people like me to decipher the ever complicated zero rated, exempt, out of scope and sub standard categories of VAT. Try calculating a partial exemption for a business that has exempt supplies. This is also regressive because big companies can afford people like me to make sense of it, but smaller businesses would have to spend a ton of money on admin to file a VAT return properly.
VAT cheques to the poor/lower income earners sent quarterly are probably the best way to offset the costs; Canada does this better than most countries. But that doesn’t change the fact the VAT/GST is inherently regressive.
Some goods and services that are not exempt in Canada that probably make up a lot of poorer people’s consumption: snack foods, liquor, sodas, candy, cell phone bills, gasoline, cars, cigarettes, pot, taxis/ubers, fast food, drinks out, electronics, holidays, etc.
Maybe they shouldn’t spend so much on that and should spend more on fresh fruits and books, but they don’t.
I have a question: if the increase of the capital gain tax is approved in the next budget, will it apply to transactions already made in 2020 or will it impact transactions made from a later date?
Pretty sure the Libs have 12 point lead on the Cons at the moment. That is 2 points more than Biden has over Trump. Think about that.
I see the GST going up.
inheritance tax.
Some sort of windfall tax.
Still that is not enough and I do not think there is room for more income tax.
So it has to be innovation. Meaning, smarter government.
We decided to cut spending and for me to go down to part-time starting this summer. That is enough work to feel like I am contributing and to live off of comfortably. Working more than that has diminished returns with the high top marginal rates. The decision pre-dated Covid, but with the looming tax bill to be footed by those who earn/spend more – it is looking like a genius move. The threshold will be different for everybody, but there is no doubt in my mind that higher taxes will modify behaviour for the “working wealthy” away from working.
-LD
Justin…
Just tax everything @ 100.666 %
Then its our turn…
PS
….loved that 22 second brain cramp today….I guess the MSM didn’t follow script…memo to rescind their $600 million taxpayer- funded professional pogey.
Adding and this should frighten you the State has taken away elderly people. No longer may you visit care homes. And get this Ontario is actively pushing the state takeover of private care homes.
The state will decide if and when the elderly live or not. They have been taken from you.
#71 Amok on 06.02.20 at 5:19 pm
Also we need an anti-dynastic tax. Any money past $1M you leave to your silver-spoon fed children should be taxed at 100%.
—
Don’t you think they will move out of the country, with their offsprings and their dough, before they croak?
The anecdotal level of Covid benefit cheating is shocking.
Part-time nothing “businesses”, pseudo part-time students, double dippers, and many more are on the teat.
Listening to Trudeau’s daily virtue signalling is unbearable as he firehoses out the dollars to every sub-group he can think of to buy their votes.
………..
I agree. Relatives of ours have kids in high school , have part time jobs, making probably $100 per week. ( 2 kids)
They applied for EI and got $2000 per month. If that was not enough, they applied again to CERB.. Now Getting $4000 per month. Living at home. Just teens. Laughing about this money. I hope CRA is smart enough to get some of this money back. Do they have enough staff for this? These are anecdotal, but this is disgusting. Of course they will vote for Trudeau.
#80 Ed on 06.02.20 at 5:30 pm
My daughters Filipino nanny quit to go work for another family willing to pay her under the table while she collects CERB then UI.
Sunny ways!
===============================
Yep… Hearing similar war zone tales
….how various groups that are NOT actual Canadian citizens have created venues to access Trudeau’s helicopter fund $$$…aka outright fraud.
IMHO….once the dust settles…if it ever does.. CRA etc. will have perpetual employment auditing what will be massive fraud of Trudeau handouts.
Now that “we are all in this together”, the other 40% of Canadians can start paying their fair share of income tax for once. I will no longer need to completely subsidize your children’s education.
This pandemic was the best thing to come along in quite some time.
#2 Rick Fast on 06.02.20 at 3:28 pm
Double tax housing. And make non residents pay 3x property tax to go to the federal government
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Had any good ideas lately?
#50 SeeB on 06.02.20 at 4:36 pm:
“However, Taxing the top echelon much more heavily than the lower is generally a better idea because of a tenancy to horde massive amounts of capital…”
I love democracy and capitalism and free market economies, and if you look carefully at the evidence one finds that society has improved a tremendous amount as a direct result of this form of government, especially over the past 100 years.
But, SeeB makes a great point. With capitalism, inevitably you get a small number of winners with astounding wealth and influence. And their number one priority is to preserve capital, which can sometimes fit within the “hoarding” narrative.
So what is the solution? A cap on your net worth? If you’ve made a billion then good for you and you can keep it, but anything additional belongs to the people in the society that you benefited so greatly from? And how would this be administered and enforced to ensure no shenanigans in hiding money?
I’m not sure… but it seems to me that we should not have a society where a single individual can theoretically amass an infinite amount of wealth.
It brings to mind Churchill’s quote: : “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”
Must mention as part of the debate – US GDP Q2 down 58%. If confirmed, a truly horrible, historic number. We are unlikely ever to see anything like that again in our lifetimes.
These days four in ten households pay no net federal income tax, thanks to benefits Gee I guess it’s got nothing to do with the fact that their income is darn low!! The rich are always saying increase HST which is unfair to low and mid level income people. Rich people can easily afford to pay more HST. This is why ‘taxing the rich’ won’t work. We don’t have enough to milk. What! Why is you’re not talking about the corporations in Canada that pay no income tax. Why is that you don’t mention the juicy tax breaks this corps are getting. The whining and begging from business lobbyists never stops. Where are the prosecutions emanating from the disclosures of the Panama Papers? Stop all the off shore Trusts these corps are despicable. Already the top tax bracket is 54% in a majority of provinces, while the few uber-wealthy families with billions have most of that money – off shore – just ask the Weston family – the Irvings – invested in businesses employing hundreds of thousands. Yep Loblaws are renowned for paying fair wages, sure, but wait a mo lets put in self check terminals then we can let the cashiers go. I was in in Oxford recently and there’s a big new beautiful building 25 million pounds “donated” by the Weston Family. I guess that wouldn’t be tax deductible eh?
More likely it ends with debtors from government on down repudiating their debts and telling the creditors to bug off. Things have gone beyond paying down debt.
There is no political will to pay down debt. Paul Martin tried and they tossed him out in favor of borrowers and spenders. If the government won’t clean up its act very few others will clean up theirs.
When Trudeau sells his Mercedes 300sl roadster (likely a gas-guzzler) at $1.5 million at auction, will he pay a capital gains tax or will it be one of those assets that we conveniently turn a blind eye to? Is this considered a dynastic transfer >$1M?
#80 Ed on 06.02.20 at 5:30 pm
My daughters Filipino nanny quit to go work for another family willing to pay her under the table while she collects CERB then UI.
Sunny ways!
*********************************************
I posted the same here 7 weeks ago, Great Filipino nanny BUT.Doesn’t take long to learn the lay of. The land,
#80 Ed
Call it in.
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/canada-revenue-agency-opens-up-snitch-line-to-information-about-federal-covid-19-aid-program-fraud
I really hope they tax GST. Tax spending to encourage saving. Don’t tax people who for working towards something. Maybe tax mega corporations a bit but not small business owners.
Garth, maybe sometime in the future you could explain to youR fellow Canadians that corporations don’t pay taxes, they collect them?
** you also lost the individual right of defending yourself in court and protesting your innocence. Courts closed . Ontario just extended the collective punishment lockdown another 28 days.
You think your rights will return on schedule?
Christmas is coming. ..
“Ontario Superior Court of Justice
Hearings. Civil matters scheduled to be heard on or after March 17, 2020, are adjourned until July 6, 2020, at the earliest. Jury selection and jury trials are suspended until September 2020 at the earliest.”
So now Justin has an anonymous snitch line for C,E.R.B.
One more thing to rat out your neighbors and friends on. Lol
GIMME GIMME GIMME – I worked my ass off for the egg I have stashed for retirement – I will do everything in my power ( and my accountants) to avoid T2’s grubby cash grabbin mitts.
Both increasing GST and flat tax would severely exacerbate the wealth gap in Canada since pool folks would pay predominantly more of their income in tax than they do today.
Do you really want to live in an s-hole country like the US with ghettos and out of control crime?
Try to be less greedy.
#76 Keith on 06.02.20 at 5:25 pm
In my lifetime, the only significant progress on the deficit and debt was made by the Chretien/Martin Liberals. They reduced the size of federal spending down to about 13% of GDP, and increased taxes, putting paid to both the NDP’s tax the rich and Conservatives encourage economic growth with tax cuts failed agendas in one fell swoop. We haven’t seen results like theirs ever since.
==============
Well….T2’s pappy (?) T1 pretty much seeded the downfall of Canuckistan…albeit it took 50 years.
Canuckistan was barely 100 years old when T1 came on the scene…it’s been flu$$$$h since.
T1 kept creating wedges and exacerbating them during his tenure..much of it while in power with a minority gov’t.
T1 was advised early on by their handlers to play a basic MATH game of curry favour of Ontario and Quebec(ie held majority of seats)….rest of Canuckistan be damned
T2 is la final nail in la Canuckistan coffin.
How about this idea? End this stupid lockdown immediately and open everything up. Ford just extended it another month. They are really milking it for what it’s worth. Keep the people scared and at home.
Between Ford and Trudeau, neither of them have a pair. Trudeau comes out to see his own shadow and says “another month in quarantine!” Then gives out more billions.
End the lockdown now! This is not my lockdown!
JT2 took his dad’s bolshevik dreams to the next level.
Plandemic – don’t forget, we stood for this.
Didn’t Justin just consult with the big 5 banks for ideas to spark the economy? And this is what they told him?
He will kill RE dead as a doornail if he hits capital gains and corporations. And since that’s 30% of our GDP, look out below.
How about investing in our economy and sparking those industries with global reach that will bring us out. Yeah I am talking about oil among other things.
Who is advising these guys, 5 year olds?
#14 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 06.02.20 at 3:43 pm
Tax all income sources equally.
Simple, honest and fair.
A dollar is a dollar is a dollar.
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Unless it’s a Loonie…
Seriously, this is another example of what’s wrong with our public school system.
Why on earth would anyone risk their savings to start a business if the income is going to be taxed at the same rate as just staying on the government alphabet soup pogey?
so…you could have sold BTCoin for 10K for about 5 mins today….except you couldnt. You would have actually got 8200. And who knows if you would have been paid that anyway.
what a scam crypto mkts are.
Easiest way to increase taxes is to broaden the capital gains tax to capture principal residences. Maybe apply a lower inclusion rate, but do it. It’ll kill many birds: raises lots of cash, addresses the generational wealth gap, diverts capital from housing; all good outcomes.
Yes, heads will explode, but that’s where most of the wealth is.
#30 Squire on 06.02.20 at 4:02 pm
Do something Conservatives. Where are you ???
//////////////////////////
The Liberals could use that during the next election campaign as their slogan.
Is the NDP now the official opposition?
Might have to get permission from Delia Smith.
Watch this 30 second clip.
Where are you?
Where are you?
Let’s be havin’ you…
M45BC
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NiC679ASOyA
I hear where you are coming from Garth, certainly any and every avenue to increase taxes will be looked at. However this has already been done every single year since Christ played in a Dixie band. There isn’t anything left to tax that won’t reduce taxes somewhere else.
Taxing capital gains on primary residences won’t fly because of political reasons, and also because the horse has left the barn, there will be too many people claiming a capital loss (the flip side of capital gains) in the coming years. Also most people simply won’t be able to afford it because capital gains is what usually pays the realtors and land transfer taxes. Plus if the person is selling because they need to move for work reasons and wishes to buy again, all that tax goes straight on the mortgage, effectively locking people into their current house until death. It’s a lot different than taxing capital gains on a rental property which is a business and treated as such. But they already do. So much of the residential real estate market is already subject to capital gains. And they tax cottages for capital gains too because nobody likes a rich guy.
Taxing capital gains on primary residences will over time force everyone to rent because they cannot afford to sell and most properties to be owned by REITs that rent them out and never sell them. So much for capital gains taxes.
Raising the GST would be the fairest way to go about it, but it won’t mean people have more money to spend so they will buy less. When they buy less economic activity decreases. When economic activity decreases there aren’t as many jobs. When there aren’t as many jobs income taxes go down.
Raising the tax on the rich sounds like a good idea to everyone else, but as you’ve pointed out there aren’t enough of them to make much difference. Also many of them will leave and take their jobs with them (my neighbor is in the process of doing just that but he’s been trapped by covid. He already has a condo and a business licence in the Camens. That is one less person paying 54% in Canada.)
Taxing “wealth” is already done through capital gains upon death. Maybe they could raise the inclusion rate. But then expect capital to avoid Canada leaving a lot less wealth, jobs, and income taxes. Plus it’ll be a nightmare. What is anything really worth? You don’t know until you sell it. And where do the rich people get the money to pay said wealth taxes without liquidating some of the assets? And who’s going to buy them? The Chinese? Probably not if they have to pay wealth taxes on Canadian assets too.
I’ve said it before but it bears repeating, we are at peak tax. Tax rates certainly aren’t going down but revenue is and no amount of raising tax rates at this point will stop it, and in fact could make it worse.
Of course this presents the new “no holds barred” deficit as a real double jeopardy. Since there will be no increase in tax revenues no matter what they do, the deficit will continue unabated. Somebody should have done the math on that before they decided on all these draconian measures. I mean, sure, it seems like a decent thing to do to pay people not to work, but the thing is there wasn’t ever any money to do that because it was the labor that created the value behind the money. Money is not real and just printing it up and handing it out doesn’t make more goods and services available.
I don’t see how there is a happy ending to all of this. I expect a 50% depreciation of the dollar in the next 5 years, bringing the minimum wage right back to $7.50/hour in real (inflation adjusted) terms.
#67
Re: Bronfman
Yeah I remember that. That was bull $$it and the gubmint of the time turned a blind eye to it.
@#55 Sail away
“n my opinion, that is one of the most thoughtful, tactful and helpful statements Trudeau has ever made when asked to comment on the US.”
+++
Are there new conditions for receiving govt handouts now?
I had a completely different view.
He was speechless for an inordinate amount of time and then when he finally DID speak….it was the same old politically correct, regurgitated, pablum he has been feeding us baby birds for years.
Nothing new.
Same old Trudeau same old drivel.
And in other news…the measures they keep implementing for this virus just keeps getting more draconian. When are we going to wake up???!!!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sex-your-house-person-another-22117105
Willy Morneau is a big bay street tycoon and McCain empire in law, so I would bet that stocks and dividends and real corps are not going to be hit very hard. Dividend gross up is the best deal in the world – $50k of tax free money.
They wont tax the TFSA because nobody has any money in them and anyone who did has already raided it to survive the scamdemic.
@100 Lost…but not leased.
T1 is dead. So is Elvis. Best to move on. You’re like all the Liberal supporters that still moan about Harper.
#14 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 06.02.20 at 3:43 pm
Tax all income sources equally.
Simple, honest and fair.
A dollar is a dollar is a dollar.
——————-
Dude, dollars aren’t real. No more so than inches. When your house doubles in “price”, it is still only one house, so when they tax capital gains on your house they are taking part of your house away. What happened there was the dollar got smaller, your house didn’t get larger.
@#70 BillyBob
“in 10 years time when the wealthy boomers are mostly dead?”
++++
I didn’t realize I only had 10 years left…
Oh well as long as I live like Croesus and bounce the last cheque…..win!
Fascinating post, Mr. T.
Since we know Messrs Morneau (et al) read this blog, maybe we should use reverse psychology:
i.e. DO NOT IMPLEMENT A FLAT TAX, DO NOT INCREASE THE GST
*grin*
Apologies to Billy Bob.
After reading ore BillyB comments I realized…….
I mistook the inane fantasies of Billy Bob to be Billy Bob’s..
My Boomer eyes are failing me or it’s my drifting attention span OR years of inhaling methane has finally taken its toll..
What about dividends?
Any chance they’d increase the tax on dividends?
” Plus what happens when the CERB ends and a few million people are jobless but can’t live on their EI?”
Then people are going to have to do what third world immigrants today do – and young unmarried people here as recently as 2 generations ago – did, namely, they doubled up. That is, they did not live alone. Unmarried people rarely lived alone according to my memory. I left school 40 yr. ago and took a roommate. Under the present circumstances, such sensible living arrangements are not going to solve everyone’s money problems – but it will sure help some.
Also, I can’t see what is so terrible about two families living together under the same roof. However, I suspect that the government will not allow it. They’d rather seize your kids, hand them over for fostering, then have you find a residence under a bridge.
#120 Paul on 06.02.20 at 6:34 pm
So now Justin has an anonymous snitch line for C,E.R.B.
One more thing to rat out your neighbors and friends on. Lol
———————-
Warm up for contact tracing/tracking ID system facilitated by big tech. Longterm possible social credit score system to earn access to public spaces/services. But I’m sure we can trust govts/politicians and big tech etc to not do that. Right?
In my unprofessional opinion, all of this global uprising is being planned out so Cayman Islands can slide into the number one position…
M45BC
“Charted: The Biggest Foreign Holders of U.S. Debt.
The U.S. government is borrowing $3 trillion in the second quarter this year, an eye-popping number with unknown implications for the future of the economy. With so much government spending in response to the coronavirus, we started to wonder, which countries actually own the most U.S. debt?
Japan holds more U.S. debt than any other country in the world at $1,271.7B, or 18.67% of the total.
China used to own the most debt but is now in second place at $1,081.6B or 15.88%.
No other country besides Japan and China holds more than 6% of total foreign-held debt. The U.K. owns the third most in the world at just $395.3B or 5.8% of the total.
Foreign countries control only about 30% of the entire national debt. American investors, the Federal Reserve and other parts of the U.S. government own the rest.”
Top Ten Foreign Holders of U.S. Debt
1. Japan: $1,271.7B
2. China: $1,081.6B
3. U.K.: $395.3B
4. Ireland: $271.5B
5. Brazil: $264.4B
6. Luxembourg: $246.1B
7. Hong Kong: $245.3B
8. Switzerland: $244.6B
9. Cayman Islands: $207.2B
10. Belgium: $206.1B
https://howmuch.net/articles/foreign-holders-of-us-debt-2020
#106 TurnerNation on 06.02.20 at 6:12 pm
Adding and this should frighten you the State has taken away elderly people. No longer may you visit care homes. And get this Ontario is actively pushing the state takeover of private care homes.
The state will decide if and when the elderly live or not. They have been taken from you.
==========
BINGO:
Current state of global affairs is like one of those horror movies whereby this weird fog rolls in…and the future victims are in sheer dread of what will appear.
The all encompassing NANNY state..conceived decades ago…..is about to be birth’d.
#44 James on 06.02.20 at 4:27 pm
Actually I wish more people would take a moment to reflect before opening their mouths and offering an opinion. Jordan Peterson is great at this, he’ll take an equal or greater amount of time before answering questions.
Our media culture thinks that everyone who doesn’t have every answer to every question on the tip of their tongue as stupid or slow.
Trudeau answered that question very well, which is very rare for him. When dealing with Trump one wrong utterance can lead to a presidential tirade.
#133 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.02.20 at 7:08 pm
@#55 Sail away
“In my opinion, that is one of the most thoughtful, tactful and helpful statements Trudeau has ever made when asked to comment on the US.”
————–
Are there new conditions for receiving govt handouts now?
I had a completely different view.
He was speechless for an inordinate amount of time and then when he finally DID speak….it was the same old politically correct, regurgitated, pablum he has been feeding us baby birds for years.
Nothing new.
Same old Trudeau same old drivel.
————–
I agree, he said nothing. That’s exactly what he should say every single time he’s goaded to criticize the US or Trump. Better for him, better for Canada.
Every so often, he seems tactful… but always so far has fallen back into his old ways. Let’s hope this time is different. If Trump never again has cause to mention Trudeau, that would be enough.
#56 Sail Away
#50 SeeB has answered the age old question why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer!
It is poor people thinking that keeps them poor and this whole post basically tells you the only step to stay poor, spend everything you got as soon as you get it.
Rich thinking is to deploy capital like workers that work for you 24 hours a day earning passive income, they procreate(compound) and earn even more.
I see Ericsson and Nokia got the 5G contract for Telus, they will be the go to guys for 5G for every place except China. Long term holds!
I’ve had this conversation several times recently…
There are people who are at or near the abyss of “I GET IT”….but a preliminary qualifier is ” People can NOT believe how evil others can be “.
( ie often those at the upper 1% who somehow have acquired the majority of the worlds’ wealth with nary a callus on their little pinky )
BELIEVE IT !!!..evidence is at one’s fingertips !
#117 shawn on 06.02.20 at 6:32 pm
I really hope they tax GST. Tax spending to encourage saving. Don’t tax people who for working towards something. Maybe tax mega corporations a bit but not small business owners.
————————-
Just paid our Corp tax bill. Thx for the support.
FYI for those who say corps don’t pay taxes – small to med ones do.
Time for a walk and unplug for the day.
#26 TurnerNation on 06.02.20 at 3:58 pm
“…Nothing is left to chance, and now this massive undertaking.”
Jeez… can’t you read your own writing?
“…going to be temporarily converted …”
So no, all this is not “planned” and “permanent”, courtesy of the NWO
#136 Keith on 06.02.20 at 7:11 pm
@100 Lost…but not leased.
T1 is dead. So is Elvis. Best to move on. You’re like all the Liberal supporters that still moan about Harper.
================
Promise ?
Let me guess….you skipped History class.
This would help one with pattern recognition.
I was lucky in that I was educated on where Canuckistan was headed 40+ years ago….nothing has changed.
Regardless..carry on….
Every one is on and on on about increasing taxes on an already overtaxed population. What is wrong with you people? We dont have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem. Besides as mentioned earlier, we need to provide incentives for people to start spending to revive the economy as well as incentives for us to invest in companies to do so as well. Right now we only know about investing in real estate. Lets focus on how we can reduce our massive governmental spending. Lets start by cuts in the huge and unproductive governments bodies. In many cases there are overlaps in services provided by various governments. The private sector has already suffered enough.
Besides huge increases in taxes will not go too well if its not in line with our southern neighbor. Trump is all about competitive taxation.
#148 Fused on 06.02.20 at 7:32 pm
#56 Sail Away
I see Ericsson and Nokia got the 5G contract for Telus, they will be the go to guys for 5G for every place except China. Long term holds!
————
You called it- good work! They’re on my watchlist while I do more research, then may very well join the game, thanks.
#148 Fused on 06.02.20 at 7:32 pm
#56 Sail Away
I see Ericsson and Nokia got the 5G contract for Telus, they will be the go to guys for 5G for every place except China. Long term holds!
————
The huge question, of course, is who gets the Starlink contract. Will they team or fly solo?
I can’t see any way that cap gains would be applied to principle residences. Far too much risk of losses for which credits would need to be doled out.
I could see GST being applied to sale of pre-owned houses of all types including PR’s. Back of the napkin shows this would be nearly $4B alone, not significant but a small dent. Who knows could even expand to equities purchases too.
#100 Faron
#101 Toronto_CA
Yes I understand the technical definition of a regressive tax. I’m simply challenging you on why you consider a higher GST unfair or wrong, especially when it can be tweaked to exempt food staples and basic clothing items.
Just calling something “regressive” doesn’t make it bad policy any more than calling something “progressive” make it good policy (these days, quite the opposite).
Toronto_CA:
Some goods and services that are not exempt in Canada that probably make up a lot of poorer people’s consumption: snack foods, liquor, sodas, candy, cell phone bills, gasoline, cars, cigarettes, pot, taxis/ubers, fast food, drinks out, electronics, holidays, etc.
So let me get this straight, “Toronto_CA”.
Not only do the poor and lower middle class pay net zero (or negative) income tax (as Garth has repeatedly noted), but you ALSO think they should get a low-tax deal on their frivolous hobbies, legal drugs (including alcohol), and junk food…so that the tiny number of citizens who DO pay the bills can provide them with greater welfare, free healthcare, and perhaps even free dental care (the NDP is pushing for this, but only for “lower income”) to absolve them of the consequences of ANY bad habits they might have?
What they need to do is remove the primary residence exemption $$$. Problem solved!
#14 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar
Tax all income sources equally. Simple, honest and fair.
————————————-
The basic exemption amount for the 2020 tax year is $12,298. That should be taxed. Correct? Everyone gets a pass on those dollars. Why are they special?
I know I’ve asked this question of you several times before, and so far, you’ve always gone silent and disappeared for several months.
Perhaps it will work again. Will you be the first to forgo your basic exemption and set an example for us all?
#87 Sail Away
No bait whatsoever. If it’s legal, it’s legal. No? Yes?
Or are you saying, ‘There oughta be a law!’
Charlie Munger says: “I never allow myself to have an opinion on anything that I don’t know the other side’s argument better than they do.”
I’m ready for an informed, factual and logical discussion on offshoring anytime.
———————————-
I think that for any sensible discussion on that topic one needs a little “light” reading, starting with
how about going through as light bed-time reading “The Hidden Wealth of Nations” by Zucman (prof. of economics at UC Berkeley) with book review at
https://web.stanford.edu/~cy10/public/shining-a-light-on-secret-money-zucman.pdf
If you are not compelled to see that offshoring of $$ is a problem after reading that book, then we beg to differ on this topic. I took it on a few years ago.
#122 Rico on 06.02.20 at 6:40 pm
Both increasing GST and flat tax would severely exacerbate the wealth gap in Canada
————————————–
No it would NOT.
It would reward savers of ALL income brackets and discipline spenders, the exact opposite of what we’ve endured for several decades.
Why should I pay higher income tax so that you can save a few pennies on Starbucks lattes and lottery tickets?
#154 Sail away on 06.02.20 at 7:47 pm
#148 Fused on 06.02.20 at 7:32 pm
#56 Sail Away
I see Ericsson and Nokia got the 5G contract for Telus, they will be the go to guys for 5G for every place except China. Long term holds!
————
You called it- good work! They’re on my watchlist while I do more research, then may very well join the game, thanks.
================================
Not sure I would bet on 5G
Right or wrong…
……lot of people are very concerned re: 5G roll-out to the point of anarchy…this implies peripheral targets.
Wonder if this is the longest T2 ever been in Canada? Usually he is on the steps waving goodbye to us Canadians and off to another country, even talks to us in another country.
Harper’s idea of lowering the GST to 5% from 7% was a great idea, anything to help the small businesses to advance. Harper also did not want to give the car companies money so he would be more careful with the deficit.
The only thing lacking was his environmental concerns but that is understandable as other countries can care less about our earth, competition for resources. Same with Mad Max.
The US has decided not to go along with the WHO organization, separate ways. T2 and gang will stay on with them, but wonder if this is wise as there are many critics. And will this lead for further reasons to separate? Or will the big deficit be the cause of unrest?
The protestors in the US have a reason, many reasons, to protest, and the anger comes with lack of changes in their system (ours too) for too long. Redirect that anger, energy, control it, by other actions, to display with never ending protesting to correct the system.
If anyone tries to cut the middle class, make it their style for whatever reason, is so wrong doing so. Controlling the mass works for a limited time, then unrest. The underground market is huge now (even the government knows selling marijuana is a money-making business but so legal.)
Answers to #78 John: No, the economy should have remained opened with the distancing and ppe. The houses are overpriced for what they are worth and near impossible to pay off, to live a normal lifestyle (globalism at play.) Eventually the services will be so expensive that people will think of other ways (many of us have done so already or try to.) Try to live a healthy, self-sufficient lifestyle.
Cell phone texting complaint: I prepaid for messaging, I thought I only counted my outgoing messages but apparently incoming messages charges are added to my account. What!?! Isn’t that double-dipping? When I make a long distance call the charges go to me not to the other person (unless reverse charges.)
One more thing (Columbo), waiting for our globalist leaders to say a phrase, at least a couple of words that the Americans say. Won’t say as they pick it up, use it to their advantage. Guess what it is?
#63 Faron on 06.02.20 at 4:59 pm
#46 SunShowers on 06.02.20 at 4:34 pm
Yep, CERB sets a minimum rate for labour in the free market. You want an operating business and want workers to leave the teat, raise your wages — in a simplistic sense. Through globalism, the labour market rates are diluted by people who live in lower cost of living environs so can afford to ask for less. This brings wages down here while maintaining or increasing corporate profitability so those same corps can pay CEOs, increase or maintain dividends and or buy back shares. Now that the investing class demands large or stable returns, the strip mining of wealth from the 90% continues to get worse through stagnant wage. And, guess what, if people earn more then they can pay a bit more in taxes.
——–
Jeez, you guys are so dense!
Increasing the wages will mean an increase in price these businesses charge, thereby creating inflation which will then wipe away the benefit of UBI received in the first place.
And Sunshowers, if you think the business that don’t (or can’t) pay more than minimum wage should go out of business? You realize that roughly half the businesses in Canada would then go out of business? LOL… such uninformed and simplistic view point.
Is this what we’re teaching in our universities now?
49 Josep on 06.02.20 at 4:34
One of the few sane comments on here.
The rest?
Ww3, new world order, elites in dark rooms etc.
How arrogant of you clowns to think that you are living in some special, unique, important time period -or that you have ANY handle of what’s going on.
You don’t.
Unbelievable the drivel spewed here.
MF
#129 Leftover on 06.02.20 at 7:02 pm
Easiest way to increase taxes is to broaden the capital gains tax to capture principal residences. Maybe apply a lower inclusion rate, but do it. It’ll kill many birds: raises lots of cash, addresses the generational wealth gap, diverts capital from housing; all good outcomes.
Yes, heads will explode, but that’s where most of the wealth is.
———————————–
To make this politically feasible, they’d have to institute a tiered policy whereby the percentage tax owed decreases the longer you’ve lived in the home. If a 5 year minimum residency at a single address gets you a full tax exemption, nearly all of the suburban Boomer voters will be protected from the tax meanwhile Millennial and Gen-Z renters will applaud it too. The result is that not much money would be collected from it but it would certainly tamp down speculation.
#158 Toronto_Andrew on 06.02.20 at 7:54 pm
What they need to do is remove the primary residence exemption $$$. Problem solved!
===================
What problem ??? ___________
This is the problem when Gubermint plays divide and conquer after being sole author of the rules.
Please advise were people bought Real Estate for primary residence under decades old Gubermint rules did anything immoral/illegal ???
Sure…the “carrot” dangled maybe have been capital gain exemption, though I don’t personally know many long term Canadians that game the system(un -like other groups who build and moved every 3 years.)
Regardless….this system was a major economic driver for decades, which employed thousands in Trades, Banking( and yes “evil” realtors) etc. etc.
Local Gov’ts won the lottery on all the associated fees garnered and property taxes in perpetuity and became addicted to it like cheap crack.
Oh…I see..Gubermint will play the cla$$ic game of divide- and- conquer…that’s a classic Win- Win.
(OMG)
You “have never had it so good” ..
British Prime minister Harold McMillan speaking in July 1957. I have a feeling that Canadians will look back on the decade 2010 to 2019 as pretty good times. Everybody was spending money freely .. individuals and governments.
The pain has not yet set in but its coming. Coming into 2020 we are a country of big government, high debt and high taxes even before Covid and the oil price crash. Not a lot of room to move. And the Provinces are bust too .. not just the Feds. And I expect to see snivelling John Tory on TV saying just how unfair it is on poor old Toronto
I was a teenager in the UK in the 70’s when we had high debt and taxes. Plenty of social and economic strife to go around. High taxes will force out the rich and well educated.
I suspect we are going to have to see some program and social spending cuts along the way .. increased taxes are not going to cover the difference. Will make the protests against Doug Ford’s (modest) education cuts seem like a picnic.
#96 Howard on 06.02.20 at 5:50 pm
#29 Lambchop on 06.02.20 at 4:01
As someone for whom listening to this PM speak actually makes me nauseous, I must nonetheless disagree with you.
Taking a few moments to choose his words carefully on such a sensitive topic, rather than blurt out the first thing that entered his mind, was the right thing to do even if it was uncomfortable. Of course the response he came up with was standard left-wing SJW Toronto Star babble, but at least it didn’t contain anything that might piss off our largest trading partner.
_____________________
Howard, you are correct in stating that it was likely a good idea for Trudeau to pause and collect his thoughts, in order to come up with a non-inflammatory response, which is near impossible because of how much Trump seems to dislike him.
His insipid tone and non-answers are infuriating to me and I usually miss anything that might be good in his statements because of this.
It also seems like 22 seconds is an awfully long time for someone to have to consider a response to something that has been front and centre in North America for days now. Everyone has an opinion and strong feelings about this. If he didn’t see that question coming and have a response prepared, then I don’t know what in the world he’s doing all day long.
To pay for the scamdemic they will tax the only source of wealth left in this country – residential real estate, including the principal residence.
It won’t be a capital gains tax because a capital gains tax would be too onerous on homeowners to go back decades calculating interest paid on the mortgage, renovations, etc. It will be a flat 5% tax on the sales price. The sales price is in the public domain and cannot be gamed. This tax will be included in with all the other taxes paid by the buyer and for sure, the house will be advertised at a price net of this tax.
They will give this tax a catchy name to take some of the stink off it.
You have to ask yourself what kind of person you are dealing with who would wilfully falsely apply to a government handout program designed to help people. I mean, people are bad in general, but worse than you think.
#42 MF on 06.02.20 at 4:25 pm
We’ll see what happens. We’ve heard this before. But can countries be boiled down to tax levels?
Diane Francis doesn’t think so:
Why America burns
-The solution isn’t about “socialism” versus “freedom” or “free enterprise.” The European Union, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and other enlightened nations have free societies and prosperous capitalist economies, but also provide great schools, health care and housing for a large number of their citizens”
“They haven’t swallowed the American myth that low taxes for those who can afford to pay more results in “trickle down” benefits to everyone below them. The numbers prove that the taxes that individuals and corporations do not pay doesn’t create jobs for the rest. The spare cash is mostly invested in automation, offshoring to Mexico or China, buying stock back to benefit shareholders, doling out high executive salaries or flooded into offshore bank accounts to further reduce or eliminate taxes for the rich.”
https://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-this-is-why-america-burns
Ouch.
MF
————–
Thanks for the article. I don’t read the FP.
Diane Francis wrote that?!
Wow, she sure has changed.
Someone said prices were supposed to fall due to…you know…economic logic.
The price tag on a BC property has never been more expensive. Record highs.
And they say there might be a correction at some point.
#164 Blessed_Canadian_Millenial on 06.02.20 at 8:04 pm
Those are valid opinions, even though you disagree with them.
Didn’t you go to uni? Canadian universities teach people to form opinions. To me that’s the system is actually working lol.
#168 Ferry Boy on 06.02.20 at 8:16 pm
I love this. The threat of wealthy and educated people leaving.
And they would go where?
If debt and taxes are the problem, then I’ve got bad news for them. This isn’t a Canada only issue.
MF
#158 Toronto_Andrew on 06.02.20 at 7:54 pm
What they need to do is remove the primary residence exemption $$$. Problem solved!
————————————————————————————————
A client just sold a rental house the capital gain tax was $425,000 actual amount paid. Before anyone chimes in he did make out great.After years of repairs,Bad cheque’s, and Government regulations.
I find the fear mongering over taxing the rich ridiculously simplistic.
Our central bank has been purchasing $5 billion worth of federal government bonds per week in the secondary market (from financial institutions and corporations not directly from the government). It is indirectly lending to the government at very low interest rates.
Debt only matters if you have to pay it back. The central bank can accept low interest rates forever.
Canada will not have to raise taxes because of new debt.
It requires an understanding of how money is created to wrap your head around this. Central banks do not create money by printing it. Printing money is only providing a paper copy of money already in existence, much like writing a cheque only produces a paper copy of money on your bank. Commercial banks create money-not our government-by lending. The central bank influences their creation by setting the overnight rate, but ultimately banks are the creators of money. You deposit $50. The bank lends that $50 to your cousin. There is now $100 in circulation. Your cousin spends it at a shop that depots the $50 back into the bank. $50 has become $150-your $50 in your account, the $50 your cousin owes the bank, and the $50 in the store’s account.
So all this ranting about the feds printing money is laughable at best. Canada is not in trouble. We are in a very strong position as a country. It’s indebted individuals that are in serious trouble. The feds know that and that is why they’re trying to stave off a recession, because that is what good governments elected to represent the people’s best interests do. Taxing the rich more than the poor is about fairness, but the idea that the feds will have to tax the rich more pay for Covid19 shows a lack of understanding of monetary policy imho. Taxes will not have to increase going forward and a lot of taxes on the super wealthy are not collected anyway due to shell corps, etc. Whereas the working class always pays their due as it’s taken off their pay cheque’s.
In addition, GST imposes the highest tax rate on the poor, as it is a consumption tax and the poor spend most of what they earn whereas those who earn more are able to save and invest.
So let’s quit pretending the rich are in danger of higher taxation. Or that taxes are the only way to pay down debt, because not all debt, particularly debt owed to our very own central bank has to be paid back.
Kind of like mom borrowing from dad’s account to get the kids through a rough patch—is dad really going to tax the kids to the fifth generation until it’s paid back?
And finally…universal income is not a bad idea from a monetary or fiscal point of view. It makes sense, kind of like housing a homeless person for $10,000 a year to avoid $15,000 in ambulance and emergency room costs. The issue with universal income is whether it will affect economic productivity…and that is the million dollar question. In a future do we want an economy based on consumption that pollutes our plant and destroys animal populations? Or do we want something more…where humans can pursue non-productive pursuits like art? The worker bee mentality ingrained in all of us…work, work, spend, is for whose benefit? Who reaps the profit? It’s not about taxing the super rich. It’s about minimizing the burden on the rest of us and making sure no one is left behind.
The Prediction – the lights are going to go out in Canada.
The reality – same lights still on while more lights being installed.
Stay tuned.
@#167 Sail away
“I agree, he said nothing. That’s exactly what he should say every single time he’s goaded to criticize the US or Trump. Better for him, better for Canada.”
+++
True enough.
When dealing with Trump… it’s best to back slowly away lest the unstable, rabid dog notices you harmlessly standing there…..
Trump is looking increasingly more deranged.
A loose cannon rolling around on the deck with the open hatch of an election looming.
Modern Monetary Theory. Why raise taxes when you can just print more money? Bank of Canada is doing the buying. Just keep it up. Free money.
People who dis owners of businesses paying minimum wage should have a hard look in the mirror. Where do you go to shop? Walmart? Amazon? Where do you get your strawberries or tomatoes in January? All Canadian business owners compete with imported goods that are cheaper. Almost all customers buy imported goods. It is a complicated scenario. Complaining about all businesses paying minimum wages is pretty narrow minded. I understand there are always bad apples, but sometimes it is a case of competing with low cost alternatives.
#44 James on 06.02.20 at 4:27 pm
I’m not a fan of CNN but came across this and have to share.
Watch Wingnut Trudeau’s response and count your seconds.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/02/justin-trudeau-trump-response-silence-vpx.ctv/video/playlists/top-news-videos/
——————
Calling the leader of a country a “wing nut” could get you put in front of a firing squat in many countries.
Treasure your freedom of free expression.
But now, go and wash your mouth with soap.
#155 Sail Away
I believe they will team up, holding both right now, but with Nokia price right now verses peak price (potential) it is a no brainer to load up on them and ride the wave up.
#85 Headhunter on 06.02.20 at 5:34 pm
system failure as its beyond repair..
TurnerNation is on to something.. a new system is a comn.
I agree, system is broken beyond repair but beware those who beleive in the god of “progress”. And I’m sure the new system will be nothing resembling that which is described by TurnerNation though.
Did anyone catch Trudeau’s daily today? When asked about current events in the USA, he stood there, silent, like an utter buffoon, to the point where it was uncomfortable to watch.
Embarrassing.
I think that the long silence said a lot more than any words he could have said…
Simple, tax all CERB benefits at 100%, once the recipient starts working again. So if in 2020 you received 6K in income to make sure your able to eat, increase taxes owing by 6K in 2021 when everyone is back working. If they aren’t working, add it in 2022, and so on. Sooner or later people who claim they lost jobs due to COVID will be working again.
Just say oh sorry, did we forget to tell you it was actually a loan?
Wow, 300 billion! That’s one hell of a lot of money, it’s a good thing interest rates are so low now. In the real world, it’s going to take a long time to pay it down, but we have to start somewhere. Personally I’m all for increasing the capital gains tax to 75%. It will cost me money, but so be it. I’ve been getting a generous break for the last 20 years with the tax at 50%. Increasing the sales tax by 1% will also help. Last but certainly not least, there’s no better time to increase the carbon tax while fuel prices are low now. Well T2, what are you waiting for?
“This is why ‘taxing the rich’ won’t work. Garth”.
No it never did and will never do. France and some European countries in the 80s versed to socialism regims, so attractive to those who wanted to benefit from hard workers and take-riskers. “Rich”, “entrepreneurs”, capital fled out, resulting in massive lays off, structural unemployment over 10%. 30 years after, the countries are so bankrupt that they are selling their last assets (highways, airports, industry flagships, farms). This is how countries are diluted, lose their sovereinty and identity.
Where does it end?
With taxes, of course. The need for cash will be insatiable.
here’s a picture – Justin Trudeau smiling, the sign says Real Change for the Middle Class
it’s the middle class who will pay for the deficit – there’s nobody else.
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-truth-about-justin-trudeaus-tax-cuts/
Normally, I would be so very sympathetic with your point of view on taxation. However, now that we live in a world where stocks and bonds are GROSSLY disconnected from reality, and this “disconnect” is completely due to the actions of CBs and national governments, I suggest that the tax rate should double for anyone making “big bucks” on Bay or Wall Street. Perhaps a “share tax” (for either buying or selling a listed stock) might be appropriate. And without question, short term capital gains should be taxed at a value ABOVE labor. After all, the hand that giveth such wealth (primarily to the 1%) should be allowed to taketh as well. Time for the big dogs to pay up!
What a time for Trudeau to stay mum on minority and aboriginal affairs in Canada. June is also Aboriginal History month, nes pa?
Excessive, vehicular force used by an RCMP member against someone who, by all means, was not par for the course.
https://nunavutnews.com/nunavut-news/kinngait-rcmp-arrest-caught-on-video-raises-alarm-among-residents-officer-removed-from-community/
#166 Howard on 06.02.20 at 8:14 pm
I could get on board with a time-tiered CG tax on primary residences. I think anything that takes basic needs out of the speculative game is a good idea.
#161 Howard on 06.02.20 at 8:02 pm
#122 Rico on 06.02.20 at 6:40 pm
Both increasing GST and flat tax would severely exacerbate the wealth gap in Canada
————————————–
No it would NOT.
—
Did you read my admittedly simplistic illustration? It’s regressive if you ask poorer people to pay out a larger share of their income than wealthier people do which is what GST does. Regressive tax are punitive to low incomers and make it even harder to get ahead. They incentivise having a high income, but there are already plenty of incentives there.
I guess you could expand GST exempt items or increase the size and income threshold of the GST tax credit. But there are other ways to encourage saving and hobbling consumer spending will be a bad idea into the future until the economy is rolling again.
“Hungry for change? You won’t have to wait long. This society may be unrecognizable in a few months. For one thing, there’s a good chance that the current violence in the streets won’t blow over as it has before. There hasn’t been such sudden, massive unemployment before, not even in the Great Depression — and we’re not even the same country that went through that rough episode. Just about every arrangement in contemporary life is on-the-rocks one way or another. Big business, small business, show business… it’s all cratering. The great big secret behind all that is not that capitalism failed; it’s that the capital in capitalism isn’t really there anymore, at least not in the amounts that mere appearances like stock valuations suggest. We squandered it, and now our institutions are straining mightily to pretend that “printing” money is the same as capital. ” JHK
Not sure what the protocol is for lifting comments from one blog to another, but if I have stepped out of line guess I will get a spanking from Garth. Mea Culpa.
I am frankly gobsmacked by the numbers presented by Garth as to who pays what percentage of taxes in Canada. There are no words. One begins to understand why rich people seek shelter in tax havens. They must be so tired of carrying the lumpen, especially if their capital was built the old fashioned way by “earning it” versus the trust funds and second generation placement as aforementioned by G.T.
Hard to know where we go from here. Cities being burned or overturned nightly. All because of what? That poor man who never deserved that knee on his neck will unfortunately be found to have expired for other reasons. People getting fined for playing soccer in a park due to Covid restrictions, but police dare not approach those who want to sun themselves, poo in adjoining residential properties, drink in defiance of regular bylaws, and defy public health directives by marching and standing in close proximity to one another. By the thousands.
We are unable to have intelligent conversations about exactly who is at risk for Covid complications ( note I did not say infection, but complications), and it is not just the folks in care homes. We haven’t got the guts to present the facts, protect the vulnerable when it just seems to be so much easier to shut down the world.
It’s all going to backfire. Big time.
There will be a rush to the exits. Not the usual one.
‘The ship sailed to the Undying Lands, also known as Valinor. It’s basically Middle-earth’s Paradise. The ship took the last of the Ring-bearers, namely Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, Bilbo and Frodo.’
It’s going to be a lot like that. Just hand over the keys to those who think they know better. Just be sure the last person boarding pulls up the drawbridge.
It won’t be me because I don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel and exiting ‘stage right’ seems like the best option. My advice: Keep an extremely low profile, say nothing to nobody, and keep your powder very dry.
Playing the hits. Does this give the impression he’s over extended?
https://www.bradjlamb.com/blog/2020/05/covid-19-the-way-forward-part-2/
Re: #29 Lambchop on 06.02.20 at 4:01 pm
Is that Terry David Mulligan??
Seems to me that an increase in GST would be a better catch-all, more fair, efficient and less costly to administer. We are also all familiar with it and accept it. All of these things would of course make it an unreasonae choice for our current leadership.
Did anyone catch Trudeau’s daily today? When asked about current events in the USA, he stood there, silent, like an utter buffoon, to the point where it was uncomfortable to watch.
Embarrassing.
++++++++++++++++==
He was just waiting for the teleprompter to hit the right answer; it was a surprise to have to go search for the answer because for some reason the media wasn’t on point to softball a question that was already set up.
Amazing that $600 million hasn’t been raised since the media is so hard done by with only the $600MM.
This game is getting phonier by the moment.
This is is a better explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGZo5gn_tc
The government of British Columbia bragged to the most valuable corporation in the world boasting that Vancouver has the lowest paid software engineers in North America. Try to imaging the struggle 90% of Canadians are going through. Reinstate the bank of Canada and tax corporate profits 40%.
#179 Jessica on 06.02.20 at 8:41 pm
<<>>
The debt growth dynamics still matters. If the public debt consistently grows faster than the GDP, then even at low interest rates, a greater portion of the government expenditures will have to be used just to pay the interest. Thus, less money left for all public program. And if you stop paying the interest, then you can’t refinance the debt you already accumulated.
<<>>
That’s true. But, to simplify a bit, the UBI will only become viable once the cost of administering means-tested public support will surpass the cost of just paying the basic income to everyone.
IMO, that can only happen when robots replace the majority of people in the workplace. The system will still need people as consumers in order to have a raison d’etre, but will no longer need most of them as workers.
The fiscal balance will still matter though. Since the system will no longer collect much taxes from individual humans, it will have to find ways to tax robot-enabled production and services.
“Did anyone catch Trudeau’s daily today? When asked about current events in the USA, he stood there, silent, like an utter buffoon, to the point where it was uncomfortable to watch.
Embarrassing.”
///////////////////////////////////////
You’re kinda watching as a country you used to know, a country many people have lived in, vacationed in, have relatives in, a country that people in Canada know very well, descends into civil war.
And you are watching as the one person, who could stop it all from happening, makes a conscious choice, not to. And not only does he make a choice not to stop it. He makes another choice, to actually make it worse, to encourage it, to break things more.
21 seconds to be shocked by that, is not enough. I guess Trudeau has had a bad week. COVID-19 is hard on leaders. Ford looks half dead whenever he speaks now. I don’t envy him and I would not want to be him.
The world has not had many men like Donald Trump, and that is a good thing, because our planet could not take many of him.
This may well be the lowest point in US history, that we are observing right now. And it is only going to get worse.
Does anyone remember when a bunch of inbread hillbillies rioted and looted because they were displeased with a group of costumed monkeys slapping a puck around a patch of ice?
#185 Fused on 06.02.20 at 9:05 pm
#155 Sail Away
I believe they will team up, holding both right now, but with Nokia price right now verses peak price (potential) it is a no brainer to load up on them and ride the wave up.
—————
In return, I offer Innodata (INOD). This has huge support near 1. I’ve tracked it for many years and now swing trade as it nears 1. The 3 swing trades have returned 22%, 27% and 40%. Just sold last week, so am now watching and waiting. I’ll let you know when I take a new position.
We’re already paying 15% sales tax out here in Nova Scotia. We can’t afford to go higher than that thank you.
seems like a lot of people have the luxury of turning down jobs right now
lots of business I deal with are having trouble getting help
they keep getting response’s from job applicants they have called where the party they call tells them they don’t need a job right now as they are getting CERB
of $2000 a month
but they will call back once it runs out and will start then.
they seem to think they now have a job waiting when the CERB runs out
are these people this stupid…
they think they will be hired down the road…
the business owners i know are building resume files of people they know they will never hire.
the kids are making it easy to edit out the flakes before they hire them…
on another note…
my 6 year old niece wouldn’t go in a store with her mother because she was afraid that the police would arrest her for breaking social distancing rules by going into a store
she’s 6 for christ sake
and you have her terrorized that the police will arrest her.
lets hear it for the covid fear mongers…
al this for a bad cold…
and debt she will be paying off
RE: #190 Toni on 06.02.20 at 9:57 pm
Well said Toni. Guess which country is buying it all up and taking their sovereignty. Yup, China ! Who’s next ? Yup, Canada will sell itself out to China because sock boy is at their disposal. Only the USA can save ourselves from our own demise. Believe it or note, it’s the truth. These left wing nuts would be begging for rights if they were under China’s control. 100 %
1/4 million gross income no tax paid per married couple
1) Spouse is 50% of everything. She should have credit facilities in her name not dependent on your income. Raise spousal credit lines and card limits.
2) Dividend income only
3) No income into taxable accts (investment acct)
4) Growth equity/Div inc 50/50 non taxable ( RSP-TFSA)
* No Tax TFSA likely doubled the allowance in growth since inception proving the point)
5) Never sell anything to crystallize capital gains. Let your winners run. If your hires have need to sell, they’ll likely be doing in a lower tax bracket. Borrow on margin before ever selling. Buy more, never sell. Selling is a rookie mistake.
6) Shift real estate assets to spouse or hire to avoid coming wealth tax
7) Numbers on a page don’t make you a winner. Tax planning/avoidance is the only way to beat Trudeau.
8) Do everything you can to avoid taxation. Pay no tax. Barter, pay cash, buy direct, pay no tax. Starve the beast. Tax savings alone will make you rich after a few years. Do everything you can to pay no tax.
People who earn enough money to worry about this are in a position to sell everything and move to a better country without negative repercussion. There are lots of them to choose from.
It’s the peasants that will be stuck with the bill. Get out now before serious Chinese style capital controls come to Kanaduh and it’s too late.
Even before the COVID-19 pandemic shuttered businesses across the country, Lebanon’s economy was in dire straits. At the end of 2019, 45% of Lebanese were living in poverty, according to the World Bank; soon that’s estimated to become more than 75%. As a result, hundreds of thousands of Lebanese are facing hunger and homelessness on an unprecedented scale.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvNm6DS3BkA
Any tax greater than 50% results in less revenue for the govt . Just researchit and you’ll see. Any country that does this is going broke…
Taxing inheritance at 100% just results in people moving out of the country. Just look at France.
Taxing corporations high rates just means the company will move away and you lose your job.
If you can’t understand this, that is why you are poor and a complainer.
#77 Keith
In my lifetime the only significant progress on deficit and debt was made by the Chretien/Martin liberals.
Oh, you mean the part where for three years 2002,2003, 2005, the federal cabinet set EI premiums without the proper authorization of parliament and unconstitutionally used the massive surplus to balance the budget. The Supreme court ruled they broke the law for three years when they turned workers/employers EI premiums into an unlawful payroll tax.
The question is what is Trudeau going to do “unconstitutionally” to deal with this run away financial train wreck that he has created??
Re: #115 tony on 06.02.20 at 6:23 pm
… Loblaws are renowned for paying fair wages, sure, but wait a mo lets put in self check terminals then we can let the cashiers go. I was in in Oxford recently and there’s a big new beautiful building 25 million pounds “donated” by the Weston Family. I guess that wouldn’t be tax deductible eh?
+++++
Isn’t that the ~ amount of money Weston got for new “climate change-worthy” fridges from the feds.
And now his $450 million Barbados tax fraud schemes are ruled legal?????
The criminal, 3rd rate enterprise that is Canada-Scamaduh.
Why aren’t we rioting in the streets to get rid of these trumped up law changes that benefit only the insiders. At least the US plebs has the balls to take it to the ruling class. We just get rolled over like a tank with nary a whimper.
It is unfortunate there has been a significant shift in the thinking of many Canadians. As has been quoted, Democracy starts to fail, when the low income folks, realize that they carry the majority of votes, and vote themselves, a standard of living, using other peoples, successes, and money. This is of course exacerbated by the decision makers, who were fortunate enough to not have to toil, and sacrifice for their lifestyles, have little or no real business experience, and just enough information to be dangerous.
I knew we were in Trouble, when, ideology, trumps, common sense, as evidenced by the Liberals, handling of our Biggest Export Energy. It is a sad state of affairs, and the benefits, are very short lived and transitory for those low income voters, that embrace this ideal. The future means, limited growth and advancement for Canadians.
I think a good possibility is the lowering of the TFSA contribution amount to $3,000 or a lifetime limit of $100,000 contribution and higher GST to 10% and much higher carbon taxes as well.
Japan has it i think 8.5% if i am correct their sales tax. A higher pension income tax on public sector or government workers pensions should be put in place an extra 10% to 20% higher rate on an amount above $50,000 a year in total taxable income.
The fox is in the henhouse.
Lots of noise in the comments, from all the hens.
Missing the point.
The fox is in.
re : Trudeau’s daily today ,
the long silent response was the “answer” to the question asked.
please listen to the question from the reporter before assuming Trudeau got caught flat footed.
Cant believe so many people missed it…
#9 Dave on 06.02.20 at 3:38 pm
hello,
we’re in the middle of a pandemic! If you turn the taps off then you may as well tell everyone to get a gun and a dog.
…
Yep. Hydrodynamics. Fill a balloon with water, tie off the exit, and squeeze. See what happens.
Aside to social scientists, check out Desmond Morris, The Human Zoo.
“Tax the rich to feed the poor,
until there are no rich no more.”
-TYA
I feel for ya, Garth. People fell for the trinkets. Cost of living should drop because… nobody got no money.
At my upcoming labour camp, if you expend calories then you get paid calories. The plans are for a big field and a trailer park. Buy essentials at our convenient shoppes and boutiques. I will be the one wearing a Stetson on the ridem mower.
There’s a canyon nearby, so I was thinking about a mining daycare program. Kids have tiny hands for picking ore. That will keep them out of their parents’ hair while the adults earn calories. I can’t help but be visionary.
Lots of good commentary today. It’s good to see people dial down the coronaphobia in favor of more important issues like the economy. Or what’s left of it.
When the miasma of coronavirus rolled in, we were forced into our submarines. Down periscope. Cowering and defenceless, we were then torpedoed with a gigantic debt bomb. Survivors are now clinging to the lifeboats and looking on in horror as the feds load their machine guns with tax increase ammo. Soon the strafing will begin.
The measures Garth outlined will probably come to pass. He knows these guys. But without a functioning economy, tax increases on income won’t be enough. And then the feds will go after the only big chunk of value left. STORES of wealth – in the form of inheritance taxes. This is the most effective way to destroy the future as well.
It’s critically important what happens to the mighty ship of state, America. 44% of USA GDP is based on small business. And those businesses are in the same lifeboats we’re in. So without an economic miracle stateside, we Canadian barnacles could well be scraped off into the blood red seas. Swimming with the sharks. And as you might have noticed, the USA is having a few little troubles of it own right now.
https://photos.state.gov/libraries/canada/303578/pdfs/us-canada-economic-relations-factsheet.pdf
@ #179 Jessica on 06.02.20 at 8:41 pm
Great post – thank you for that. More commentors like this please.
____
“#164 Howard on 06.02.20 at 8:02 pm
Why should I pay higher income tax so that you can save a few pennies on Starbucks lattes and lottery tickets?”
Well, lottery tickets aren’t subject to GST?VAT, so that’s irrelevant. Are you familiar, Howard, with Marie Antoinette? “Let them eat cake!” is all I hear in my head from your comments that it tries to validate very regressive tax regimes.
I’m not totally against raising GST, I would just say that it needs to be done *after* we’ve returned consumer demand for goods and services to pre-pandemic levels as much as we can and that any increase is balanced by measures to address the regressive nature of the tax (bigger rebates for lower income earners and a broader scope of exemptions like cell phone/internet plans which are necessities in the 2020s and not luxuries anymore).
And to address your other response, yes I do think the poor are entitled to their vices and should not bear more of the general tax burden than the rich because they like McDonalds and beer and and music streaming and Netflix just like everyone else. If you want to go live in the Cayman Islands, no income tax and pure consumption taxes. It really works there if you’re rich.
#219 Toronto_CA on 06.03.20 at 4:28 am
@ #179 Jessica on 06.02.20 at 8:41 pm
Great post – thank you for that. More commentors like this please.
____
“#164 Howard on 06.02.20 at 8:02 pm
Why should I pay higher income tax so that you can save a few pennies on Starbucks lattes and lottery tickets?”
Well, lottery tickets aren’t subject to GST?VAT, so that’s irrelevant. Are you familiar, Howard, with Marie Antoinette? “Let them eat cake!” is all I hear in my head from your comments that it tries to validate very regressive tax regimes.
———————————–
Are you familiar with false equivalencies?
Let’s see – starving peasants who unfairly paid the lion’s share of taxes in pre-Revolutionary France vs. lower income Canadians who unfairly pay ZERO net income tax wanting cheaper junk food and beer. Have we really become this entitled as a society?
And as I pointed out in another comment, simply calling something “regressive” does not an argument make. And that really seems to be your sole argument here.
Let’s increase taxes on unearned wealth (like Trudeau’s trust funds) vs earned income of successful people.
Btw Marie-Antoinette never actually said “Let them eat cake”. That is a myth.
#50 Josep on 06.02.20 at 4:34 pm sez:
“Who cares what percentage of taxes the top earners contribute? The indefensible fact is you do not need to be a top earner to have your basic needs met. If we allow the top earners to continue to weaponize these statistics, we will end up like the US.”
————————————————
Da Comrade Stalin.
#219 Toronto_CA on 06.03.20 at 4:28 am
And to address your other response, yes I do think the poor are entitled to their vices and should not bear more of the general tax burden than the rich because they like McDonalds and beer and and music streaming and Netflix just like everyone else. If you want to go live in the Cayman Islands, no income tax and pure consumption taxes. It really works there if you’re rich.
————————————
I think you need to reevaluate your definition of the word “rich”.
People in Canada earning $100K a year are not rich! In Toronto/Vancouver they’re not even upper middle class. But they are forced to bear an obscenely exorbitant tax burden while simultaneously shut out of all the benefits financed by that tax burden (such as the cash-for-kids).
You have a lot of nerve telling people earning $100K/year that they should shut up and pay up so that lower income people who won’t improve themselves can have cheaper junk food. Do you realize how insane and marxist that sounds? And why do you think successful Canadians will take this lying down? They will fight back or leave.
#198 Bob Dog on 06.02.20 at 10:35 pm
The government of British Columbia bragged to the most valuable corporation in the world boasting that Vancouver has the lowest paid software engineers in North America. Try to imaging the struggle 90% of Canadians are going through. Reinstate the bank of Canada and tax corporate profits 40%.
—————–
Nope, never work. Companies with the ability to leave would do so and companies staying would adjust expenditures to make no more profit.
Yep,
Save whatever you can as your assets/money are about to be stolen through some form of tax one way or another.
Horse face/french villa/screw the small businesses guy and the fancy socks boy with lower double digits IQ will wipe you out clean.
Too many oligopolies, free loaders, golden plate benefits government workers to support with very few still working.
Universal basic income? It will come with inflation of necessities of 15-20 % yearly and completely destroy financially through tax (including inflation) all those still working, even doctors and lawyers will be hit hard.
Grooming the new plebs class, controlled through ideological brainwashing. Why do you think they legalized ganja? The 2 bit idiot with fancy hair announced yesterday that this is a racist country.
That is right and he is going to get away with it as the sheeple is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuupido,
Invent problems that do not exist, do some counter fitting and lying that you will solve it and voila, you become their messiah.
The ability of an extraordinary gullible and stupid, brainwashed group of people to survive and prosper in the today’s world is close to zero.
Cheers,
“Did anyone catch Trudeau’s daily today? When asked about current events in the USA, he stood there, silent, like an utter buffoon, to the point where it was uncomfortable to watch.
Embarrassing.”
///////////////////////////////////////
To me he looked like a leader who was considering his words and thoughts carefully before saying anything.
Maybe you should give that a try instead of making a fool of yourself here?
#204 Silver on 06.02.20 at 11:40 pm
seems like a lot of people have the luxury of turning down jobs right now
lots of business I deal with are having trouble getting help
they keep getting response’s from job applicants they have called where the party they call tells them they don’t need a job right now as they are getting CERB
of $2000 a month
—————————-
$2000 per month works out to $12.50 an hour full time.
Have these business that can’t hire people considered offering prospective workers more than that?
Sail Away
BCE announces partnering with Ericsson for 5G!
#282 Calgary Rip Off (on June 1st)
Ive stopped reading comments on Youtube. Not worth my time. I read Scriptures instead.
——————————————————————–
Oh, so you’re a fan of fiction I take it?
@#215 R
“lease listen to the question from the reporter before assuming Trudeau got caught flat footed.
Cant believe so many people missed it…”
+++
Ahhhh Uh ummm errr ahhhh.
Yeah we “caught the joke”.
But with Trudeau, one never knows if he’s actually joking or the squirrels have stopped running on the treadmill inside his head.
people from the Lower brainland have ha years of experience with the politicians and their deer in the headlights moments at a presser.
A Gregor Robertson vapid stare and silence.
A Christy Clark vapid stare and silence.
Trudeau was just another in a long line of ill prepared puppets standing in front of the microphone.
Or the battery in his earpiece died and he couldnt hear Butz’s answer to the question.
#127Trojan-I voted for Ford but at this point I can’t tell the difference between the guy and Wynne. Politicians.
Hmmm, the tide has gone out. Justin, for heaven’s sake. Get your trunks on.
@#184 Ponzie Plop
“Calling the leader of a country a “wing nut” could get you put in front of a firing squat in many countries.”
+++
I thought people were tied to a post when they were in front of a firing squad?
Is the “firing squat” an Austrian invention?
Interesting visual.
Perhaps Austrian condemned prisoners could be tied, seated, pants to ankles, on a toilet, as the blindfold is removed….
I’m sure the mortician would appreciate the gesture…
Or do you just have fat fingers?
#154 John in Mtl point taken but at this point can you name any ‘temporary’ changes ever made by governments, large corps? No they are re-making the world daily.
Per plan. This globalist think tank has the CV road map right here – why don’t you email them and inquire?
https://intelligence.weforum.org/topics/a1G0X000006O6EHUA0?tab=publications
Taxing the rich may be the only way forward. In 50 or 100 years looking back, it will be obvious this was the right thing to do.The foundations of most ‘private wealth’ are still inheritance and insider dealing, no matter how you slice it. Time for that to end.
#203 CanadIain on 06.02.20 at 11:36 pm
We’re already paying 15% sales tax out here in Nova Scotia. We can’t afford to go higher than that thank you.
———
Really? I guess you’re screwed then.
#206 Serge McLennon on 06.03.20 at 12:09 am
1/4 million gross income no tax paid per married couple
1) Spouse is 50% of everything. She should have credit facilities in her name not dependent on your income. Raise spousal credit lines and card limits.
2) Dividend income only
3) No income into taxable accts (investment acct)
4) Growth equity/Div inc 50/50 non taxable ( RSP-TFSA)
* No Tax TFSA likely doubled the allowance in growth since inception proving the point)
5) Never sell anything to crystallize capital gains. Let your winners run. If your hires have need to sell, they’ll likely be doing in a lower tax bracket. Borrow on margin before ever selling. Buy more, never sell. Selling is a rookie mistake.
6) Shift real estate assets to spouse or hire to avoid coming wealth tax
7) Numbers on a page don’t make you a winner. Tax planning/avoidance is the only way to beat Trudeau.
8) Do everything you can to avoid taxation. Pay no tax. Barter, pay cash, buy direct, pay no tax. Starve the beast. Tax savings alone will make you rich after a few years. Do everything you can to pay no tax.
———
Meanwhile, reaction of people in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Findland, etc., who are paying very high taxes already: pffft.
None of this – not Covid, not the riots, not the overspending, not the coming high taxes, nothing – compares with the travesty of the hastily written federal legislation banning firearms with 20mm bores and inadvertently including 12 gauge shotguns in the process.
The ducks are happy, though.
June 6th protest being pushed for Toronto. Social media is busy dragging up every minority police encounter for the past 5 yrs and sensationalizing it non stop. Probably the bricks are being delivered right now.
Lets see if Canada is really different.
https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/on/ontario-protests-wont-turn-to-rioting-as-ontarians-wouldnt-tolerate-it-says-ford
DELETED
Huge storm in Ontario last night. First time I’d seen this it was literally raining down literal covid here! Literally.
The CV is everywhere and it’s gonna git you. It’s coming. Just a matter of time. Per the Covid Broadcasting Corp.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/amid-covid-19-the-safest-place-is-often-your-own-home-until-the-virus-finds-a-way-in-1.5595809
@ #195 the Jaguar on 06.02.20 at 10:22 pm
Well well, and here I was, thinking I’m the only one around here that reads JHK’s articles LOL. I love this guy’s critical eye on America; well, most of the time anyways! And so, we are well along “The Long Emergency” !
#179 Jessica
The commercial banks didn’t send out $50 billion in CERB cheques to Canadians and the debt created was definitely added to the debt to be repaid by the Government of Canada, representing the current and future generations of Canadians.
Your belief that a country with a weak economy can
increase their money supply without consequences is based on a very sanguine interpretation of history. Unfortunately this interpretation seems to be shared by our political leaders and many of their advisors.
Where is the evidence that real Canadian GDP can increase to the point where cumulative government debt of more than $1.5 trillion can be serviced. Every sector of the services driven Canadian economy has been deliberately wounded and the response from government leaders is “things” will get better as long as we all pull together until a vaccine solves our problems.
Shakeout from this Covid 19 fiasco will not be pretty and our belief that “things” will return to normal has no foundation in facts. Our biggest trading partner is in real economic and social turmoil and policies initiated to resolve this turmoil are bound to have a direct impact on Canada.
We desperately need to develop economic strategies based on the future role of Canada in the global marketplace. This time our reliance on increased trade with the USA will not increase our GDP to the point where accumulated government debts do not have consequences.
Our only ace in the hole is our access to trillion of dollars of investment capital that could be focussed on developing in an ethical role for Canada within the
current metamorphosis being shaped by an over reaction to Covid 19.
Crossing our fingers and toes will not save us from pain this time.
#234 colin on 06.03.20 at 8:52 am
Taxing the rich may be the only way forward. In 50 or 100 years looking back, it will be obvious this was the right thing to do.The foundations of most ‘private wealth’ are still inheritance and insider dealing, no matter how you slice it. Time for that to end.
————
Are you rich, Colin?
This is who’s running our country
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNdWQGV0rBA
DELETED
#1 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.02.20 at 3:25 pm
“Trump has crossed his Rubicon.”
???
Former Democrats for Trump
@YoungDems4Trump
Minneapolis:
Democrat governor.
Democrat Secretary of State.
Democrat State Auditor.
Democrat Sr US Senator
Democrat Jr US Senator
Democrat Reps 5 / Republicans 3
Democrat Mayor.
Democrat AG.
Democrat Police Chief.
2016 General Elections – Voted Democrat
@ #233 TurnerNation on 06.03.20 at 8:46 am
#154 John in Mtl point taken but at this point can you name any ‘temporary’ changes ever made by governments, large corps?
I will have a read at the link you posted. As for temporary changes brought upon by the pandemic, one example: I remember you saying “the crown wants you off the land”, bla bla bla… Here in Quebec, crown land (ie: provincial parks, reserves, etc) which was off limits since mid-march are now partially reopened in some areas and fully open in others. They are practically begging people to come back, as witnessed by the weekly emails that land in my inbox.
I’m old enough, I get it that there’s lots of hanky-panky going on, using the pandemic as convenient cover for the time being. From your writings, it would appear that the future is quite bleak. I can assure you though, if a good sized portion of what you purport does come to be, the people will rebel. I, for one, will do everything I can to convince people to stand up and fight for what is right. Around here, when people have had enough, they do take to the streets. It takes only one spark to light the fire. You may remember this from 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests
@#237 Dharma Bum.
“the hastily written federal legislation banning firearms…”
++++
Hastily written?
You are kidding right.
They spent months working on that all encompassing drivel and then waited…….for another nutter with a gun to kill a bunch of people…… so they could pull it out and whomp it down on a table in front of the media… mere days after the shooting….. to proudly show that they were “doing something”.
Great photo optics.
#94 Fortunate One on 06.02.20 at 5:44 pm
#44 James on 06.02.20 at 4:27 pm
I’m not a fan of CNN but came across this and have to share.
Watch Wingnut Trudeau’s response and count your seconds.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/02/justin-trudeau-trump-response-silence-vpx.ctv/video/playlists/top-news-videos/
—————
James shame on you. I totally agree with #55 Sail Away.
That was one of the most thoughtful, tactful and helpful statements Trudeau has ever made when asked to to come out on the US and what did you do? You trivialized. You missed the mark. I agree with Dr. June Francis that here in Canada we think we are a colour blind society but the truth is we are blind to racism. Anti-black racism is endemic in Canada. Aboriginal People suffer from severe racism in Canada and you mock a man who is taking his time to say what needed to be said. Did we hear it and if so what will we do?
_______________________________________
OK let me make this clear Wingnut is a racist. Blackface? Come on. If i had to stand in front of the camera it would take me two nanoseconds to make my policy clear.
My background has racial diversity so don’t tell me about it from your position. If he clearly wanted to do something about the first nations people he would have done it by now! The first nations people are the real Canadians. All this guy wants to do is get into the United Nations and make a mark in the world of politics. He has done nothing for first nations. I have no tolerance for racism. This guy is a fraud. Wake up people.
20 seconds……………………………………………………………..
Let’s reimagine this as the following hypothetical scenario:
Canada has given, and continues to give, all its food away to poor, downtrodden countries, and is facing a critical shortage. Some options for Canadian citizens to avoid mass starvation are:
1. Cull the rich and prosperous
2. Cull the middle class and poor
3. Cull all equally
4. Reduce vast quantities of food being used by government programs. Let’s call it pork.
5. Stop giving food away and tighten belts slightly to avoid mass starvation.
It seems the vast majority of posters here would far prefer options 1-3 before anything else. Well, at least if it happens to other people more, of course.
Has anyone else noticed the ‘surge’ in comments and new voices suddenly defending Trudeau? Not just here, but the national comments sections are full of robust rebuttals of anyone critical of the great leader.
Trudeau himself said that if he would shift public opinion ( this was when the SNC scandal was rightfully dragging him through the gutter) by turning “hundreds of op-ed writers listed in his Rolodex loose on Canadians”.
Just wondering. Have we reached an inflection point where Trudeau accepts that he is so far down in the polls that he has to mount an attack on his critics?
How bad is it? I guess we’ll find out.
Trudeau has had the media in his pocket, but the 7000 Covid dead , the killing of our democracy , our tax supporting industries, and his accumulation of international screw ups are maybe getting too much to keep his back room buddies sweeping them all under the carpet.
He was just holding back the umms and awwws. Only one this time. The handler training is working! Plus one.
#240 TurnerNation on 06.03.20 at 9:10 am
Huge storm in Ontario last night. First time I’d seen this it was literally raining down literal covid here! Literally.
The CV is everywhere and it’s gonna git you. It’s coming. Just a matter of time. Per the Covid Broadcasting Corp.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/amid-covid-19-the-safest-place-is-often-your-own-home-until-the-virus-finds-a-way-in-1.5595809
__________________________________________
Exactly high density kills. From your article.
‘Impossible’ for some to self-isolate
Early on in the pandemic, the message from Dr. Eileen de Villa, Toronto’s medical officer of health, was: “If you can stay home, do.” Since then, there’s been growing awareness that while hunkering down can keep you safe, households are also COVID-19 transmission zones once one person gets infected — particularly in a city like Toronto where crowded apartment units and multi-generational housing is a common facet of life in certain neighbourhoods.
Toronto breaks down geographic spread of COVID-19, showing local hot spots in detail for first time
“We see patients coming to the ICU from the same apartment / condo complex, from the same unit, from the same area,” says Dr. Michael Warner, medical director of critical care at Michael Garron Hospital.
“And most of these people that we care for are people who do not have the ability to go to the cottage, to use the third-floor bedroom, to self-isolate in their own home.”
Recently-released data from the city shows high case counts in many neighbourhoods known for apartment /condo communities, which are often home to essential workers who face a two-fold dilemma: Their jobs may expose them to COVID-19, and they may in turn expose entire households.
“It’s absolutely impossible in a 600-square-foot apartment with one bathroom and six people to protect your family,” Warner stresses.
There’s also a growing consensus among researchers that spending time in close quarters in a variety of indoor settings, from workplaces to restaurants, helps facilitate the transmission of COVID-19.
Oh my my.
Ms Meng wont be happy reading the Western News Media this week….
https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN23A19B
Would her lawyers be interested in a plea bargain?
I cant wait to read the Communist Chinese spleen venting over THAT Reuters article.
#244 Hawk on 06.03.20 at 9:25 am
This is who’s running our country
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNdWQGV0rBA
That was actually funny. Sad, but funny. Oh dear, I might have to become a doomer.
I used to worry about the debt and deficit. No longer.
The numbers are so fantastically large that there is no point even pretending it even could be addressed if there was the will.
There are only two ways out : A bout of Weimer-style inflation or Jubilee.
What would Jubilee look like?
All government debts repudiated. Bonds zeroed.
All mortgage debt zeroed. (Primary residence only)
Afterwards, no government deficits for a generation at least.
Either path ends up with currency collapse and … (the best part) rebirth.
The answer is look at the prosperity charts in the US and see how prosperous the country was at extremely high corporate tax rates and use that as a basis.
Canada has a history of threatening corporate taxes and then backing off, there’s also a ton of loopholes and tax breaks right now for corporations.
2007: Conservative finance minister Jim Flaherty promised a crack-down on tax loopholes, putting an end to the practice of companies borrowing in Canada to fund business operations abroad, then deducting the interest paid against Canadian profits. “The free ride is over,” he said. “Everyone’s going to pay their fair share.” After being besieged by the business community who said the change would hobble them internationally, Flaherty threw in the towel and the change never went through.
Corporate tax breaks were literally proven as only good for the elites when Trump did his cut and they just bought back their shares – no new jobs created.
#249James-I will give Boy Trudeau credit for understanding exactly how sheeplike the Canadians are-a guy who repeatedly wore blackface is being honored as the symbol of anti-racism. You gotta give credit where credit is due.
#206 Serge McLennon on 06.03.20 at 12:09 am
This guy is a freeloader and has no right to enjoy the benefits of living here, IMO. I’m going to guess he’s very much not alone among those at his income level and above. I’m going to assume many in position to wrangle their tax bill down are doing so yet these same people are probably taking a wage subsidy right now and also going to bitch about a higher tax rate. These are some of the loop holes that need to close. Or, you can recognize the direct relationship between your taxes and the quality of life in your country and quit with the tax avoidance.
Oh, and a carbon tax HAS to be revenue neutral to gain any traction. I’d be happy to see it raised a lot, but those dollars need to be offset by lower tax elsewhere if it’s to be at all politically palatable.
#250 Sail away on 06.03.20 at 9:48 am
Two problems with your scenario
1) the “food” is not being sent out of Canada
2) when the “food” is consumed it just gets handed off to another person who can eat it.
Your scenario neglects the fact that, even if you don’t benefit from CERB directly, you most certainly do indirectly and you have probably already had CERB dollars pass through your accounts.
#222 Howard on 06.03.20 at 6:56 am
OMG Howard’s turning blue. Someone give him the heimlich maneuver.
…
Oh look, he was choking on his silver spoon.
I gather Toronto_CA is an accountant and as such he’s seen the finances of many folks and knows taxation very well. I’ll take his word over yours any day.
And, I make about 100k and live in an expensive city. I can save almost half of my income easily (should be more but I’m dumb enough to keep a sailboat). I call that rich. With kids, I still think I’d be doing okay.
undocumented and temp visa programs usa experience
interesting report to a complex problem
This report describes the extent of the farm sector’s dependence on undocumented workers and the political, economic, and social forces that shaped this growing dependence since the last major reform effort in late 1980s as well as the possible consequences of reform during the 2013/14 Congressional legislative cycle.
https://www.fb.org/files/AFBF_LaborStudy_Feb2014.pdf
A report commissioned by the American Farm Bureau Federation indicates that about half of all hired farm workers nationwide are undocumented immigrants. Given that reality, it is probable that a number of the workers losing their jobs will not be rehired by Columbia River Orchards because they can’t meet citizenship or visa requirements.
Agriculture
Layoffs
Mergers & Acquisitions
this was then
Acquisition by North Carolina Investment Firm
Washington’s tree-fruit industry consolidation because of an oversupply of product and packing houses, industry observers say?
https://www.seattlebusinessmag.com/workplace/three-central-washington-fruit-companies-slash-more-2000-jobs-after-being-sold
A North Carolina investment firm, International Farming Corp. (IFC), acquired Legacy Fruit Packers, Valley Fruit and Larson Fruit on Dec. 20 of last year,
================
https://www.capitalpress.com/ag_sectors/orchards_nuts_vines/firm-confirms-purchase-of-washington-fruit-companies/article_d145731c-1e8c-11e9-a929-47cb67727398.html
https://www.seattlebusinessmag.com/agriculture
=============
Earlier this month, outbreaks of COVID-19, the illness the coronavirus causes, prompted some workers in Yakima fruit warehouses to walk off the job to press for hazard pay and more safety assurances. Inslee cited their protests as he rolled out new measures that require employers to provide masks and other protective equipment to employees at no cost to them and to place more hand-washing stations at closer intervals in fields and orchards. The new requirements also call for workers to be spaced out in vans and shuttles carrying them to job sites.“The striking workers in Yakima, on the lines as we speak, are clear in their calls that more needs to be done. We hear that message. And that’s why we are acting today,” Inslee said.
Many of the cherries will be picked in Yakima County, a hub of the fruit industry that has the highest per capita rate of coronavirus cases of any county in the West and — as of earlier this month — nearly 500 cases involving agricultural and food-processing workers. Last week a state health task force made a number of site visits in Yakima, including to some fruit-packing operations where workers labor for hours on end inside big, ware house like buildings.State Secretary of Health John Wiesman on Tuesday told reporters that food-processing operations “are really where we are seeing our hot spots at the moment.”
#234 colin on 06.03.20 at 8:52 am
Taxing the rich may be the only way forward. In 50 or 100 years looking back, it will be obvious this was the right thing to do.The foundations of most ‘private wealth’ are still inheritance and insider dealing, no matter how you slice it. Time for that to end.
———
So since all my wealth is self made and not insider dealing, I get an exemption, right?
#222 Howard on 06.03.20 at 6:56 am
I think you need to reevaluate your definition of the word “rich”.
People in Canada earning $100K a year are not rich!
————————————
1/3 of the people on earth living on a couple of dollars a day want to slap you silly!
#201 Neo
Does anyone remember when a bunch of inbread hillbillies rioted and looted because they were displeased with a group of costumed monkeys slapping a puck around a patch of ice?
——————————
I sure do. How I long for simpler times.
#101 Faron on 06.02.20 at 5:59 pm
#75 Howard on 06.02.20 at 5:24 pm
#66 Faron on 06.02.20 at 5:13 pm
#57 Toronto_CA on 06.02.20 at 4:54 pm
We agree here. Consumption taxes are regressive…
——————————
Why? Aren’t food staples GST-exempt anyway?
Why would it be unfair for people to pay more sales tax on an iPhone they don’t need?
—-
You are right that it would disincentivise consumption and the argument is that isn’t what a recovering economy needs. You are right that, by
rate, it’s flat (neither prog. nor reg.) By effect it’s regressive. Say you earn 60k and I earn 30k. Say you are really frugal and we both have the same fixed costs to live say 25k per year. Food, rent, clothes, housewares etc. Some of those costs are subject to GST. If 60% of those fixed costs are taxable then that’s 15k taxed at 5% or $750 . For me that’s 2.5% of my income. For you it’s 1.25% and that’s regressive.
You may say that the 60ker will pay more because they will spend more and that’s true. But, if 25k is an unavoidable floor on cost of living, then the 60ker has options to decrease their tax rate while the 30ker has very few. Again, the impact relative to income is regressive. To pay a flat rate relative to income, the 60ker could spend another 15k on misc items just to get up to an even rate and still sock away 20k per year in their RRSP.
See what I’m sayin’?
*********
Ah, I think so. You’re sayin’ that those who, by nature of the vagaries of life/genetics/evolution, are less competent – either intellectually, physically or morally (they don’t give a whit about self-sacrifice/delayed gratification, self-improvement) should be GIVEN what the most competent among us (who are working to make a contribution to society) EARN through our industriousness and focus to task.
Is that it? Free ponies (and everything else) – but only for the selected sub-groups of our society – not for those rich or even middle class parasites who just take, take, take….but actually, produce, produce, produce.
Ok, Lefty!
M56BC
ps. Canada has many arms of our Social Safety Net – just too many people willing to abuse them.
Case in point – immigrant, seven children, cab driver – had four/five of his kids claim CERB, as did he and his wife (although he worked throughout) – rolled into the parking lot with a new-to-him BMW 535i.
Thanks Justin!
“Unfortunately there are only 27,000 of them, and they all read this blog”
How did you know??
#238 not 1st on 06.03.20 at 8:59 am
It’s pretty sick that you are clearly hoping for the same violence that hit the US to come to Toronto …just so you can prove some deranged societal view you drummed up from Twitter to be true.
I guess since it didn’t happen the first time when we had peaceful protests you are hoping for a second shot?
Just what are you hoping for not 1st? Another peaceful protest? Something else?
For years we’ve heard you advocate for Alberta to join the US. Now, when the ugly side of US culture rears it’s head again you deflect and try to denigrate Toronto? Why? That last peaceful protest was a positive for our city, and for our country. Give it up already.
MF
Just crank the GST, super easy to offset/avoid that in this day and age.
I’m down for a decreasing radius CG tax on PR’s too. Only because it would nuke the specuvestors. The rest of us who own a home as shelter would not likely suffer from it.
Gov should also get working on a plan to nuke cash rentals, there’s got to be a ton of $ there too.
Also defund the CBC, make Public Service Unions illegal, convert all public sector DB pensions to DC etc…
Lots of ways to improve the federal bottom line – all they have to do, is just do it…
#15 not 1st on 06.02.20 at 3:44 pm
The moneys in the corps Garth.
There are 200,000 docs and lawyers in the country. They are all 1%ers I would bet.
*******************
Yup – and you just gave them a HUGE incentive to move to the USA!
#114 “
Must mention as part of the debate – US GDP Q2 down 58%. If confirmed, a truly horrible, historic number. We are unlikely ever to see anything like that again in our lifetimes.”
—————-
Let that sink in….nearly 60% of the US economy basically gone…how much will come back?
Aaaand the markets keep on climbing. They seem to be completely divorced from reality. Pumped by the Fed directly buying ETFs now. The market is completely fake, artificial levels held up by direct government manipulation. When that stops and mass bankruptcies start….yikes.
So tempted to goto cash right now.
The GDP stat is annualized. The economy has not lost half its value. Give your head a shake. – Garth
#264 Wrk.dover on 06.03.20 at 11:14 am
#222 Howard on 06.03.20 at 6:56 am
I think you need to reevaluate your definition of the word “rich”.
People in Canada earning $100K a year are not rich!
————————————
1/3 of the people on earth living on a couple of dollars a day want to slap you silly!
—
I think Howard meant to say Canadians *who live in the GTA/GVRD* who make 100k are not rich – which is essentially true.
If I made 100k where I live, I’d be up to my neck in Yamahas and bass boats!
#261 Faron on 06.03.20 at 11:08 am
#222 Howard on 06.03.20 at 6:56 am
OMG Howard’s turning blue. Someone give him the heimlich maneuver.
…
Oh look, he was choking on his silver spoon.
I gather Toronto_CA is an accountant and as such he’s seen the finances of many folks and knows taxation very well. I’ll take his word over yours any day.
And, I make about 100k and live in an expensive city. I can save almost half of my income easily (should be more but I’m dumb enough to keep a sailboat). I call that rich. With kids, I still think I’d be doing okay.
——————————————————
You have no argument so you resort to sneers.
If you get your way and the middle class have even more of their money stolen from them to hand over to people who won’t improve themselves, what do you think is going to happen? What is the incentive to stay in Canada and, if unfortunately stuck there, what is the incentive to progress in one’s career? Very few people love their jobs sufficiently to put in the effort if the financial gains will be siphoned off and sprinkled over the lazy and the stupid.
I don’t get it, shouldn’t most/all of the CERB money and other subsidies find it’s way back to the government eventually over time?
I sure hope my pony is a unicorn , my entire life I never dreamed that this could become a reality .
When do the masses realize our currency is headed for some serious confidence issues ?
#244 Hawk on 06.03.20 at 9:25 am
—
Except that Canadas real debt is $3T. 200% of our pre covid GDP
#96 TurnerNation on 06.02.20 at 5:49 pm
It’s been said the plan for the world order unfolding is the end of individual rights. Any evidence?
– Sounds like your money you earned no longer is yours; it will be given away to UN, WHO and UBI
– You lost the right to leave your homes
– You lost the right of travel (borders closed)
– You lost the right to be presumed healthy
– You lost the right to gather
– You lost the right to open/run your small business store
Have I missed any?
What you’ve missed is that rights aren’t granted, they’re inherent when they’re exercised. Don’t let them fool you–if you believe your rights are eroded, they will be.
If you sit at home waiting for some politician to tell you what rights you have, you’ll have few and deserve less.
Claim your rights–exercise them regularly. No one can taken them away unless you let them.
@ #220 Howard on 06.03.20 at 6:37 am
Look, if you can’t see that a consumption tax is regressive without massive state intervention you don’t deserve my response. It is self evidently regressive. This is why there is a GST rebate, and why so many basic goods are exempt.
It is not me calling it regressive that makes it regressive, it is just the definition of a regressive tax when the poor pay more of their income towards it than the rich. The opposite of a progressive tax, like our income tax system.
It is not my business, nor yours, nor the State’s, what the poor choose to spend their income on, in my opinion. But obviously the government do think we should pay sin taxes (on top of GST) on things you seem to think the unwashed masses should avoid. Perhaps the answer would be junk food taxes on top of GST, which again, is really regressive since the poor don’t have good access to or the money for fresh healthy food.
I’m hardly Marxist, I think like Garth I get called both extreme left and extreme right wing by people here. Which must mean I’m doing something right…
What do you say to my point that GST is regressive in that it is so complicated it makes it very expensive for small mom and pop business owners to comply? It’s an undue burden compared to large business who can afford to pay people like me to get the most input tax credit relief they can get (minimizing the tax burden) as a side job.
#251 Zane Lawson on 06.03.20 at 9:52 am
Has anyone else noticed the ‘surge’ in comments and new voices suddenly defending Trudeau? Not just here, but the national comments sections are full of robust rebuttals of anyone critical of the great leader.
Trudeau himself said that if he would shift public opinion ( this was when the SNC scandal was rightfully dragging him through the gutter) by turning “hundreds of op-ed writers listed in his Rolodex loose on Canadians”.
Just wondering. Have we reached an inflection point where Trudeau accepts that he is so far down in the polls that he has to mount an attack on his critics?
How bad is it? I guess we’ll find out.
Trudeau has had the media in his pocket, but the 7000 Covid dead , the killing of our democracy , our tax supporting industries, and his accumulation of international screw ups are maybe getting too much to keep his back room buddies sweeping them all under the carpet.
_________________________________
He was re-elected in light of blackface, and SNC Lavalin, but mainly due to weak leadership in the main opposition party……..and, because Canadians are lackadaisical voters. If there’s a good hockey game on, to hell with the ballot box, I’ll vote next time!
#179 Jessica on 06.02.20 at 8:41 pm
An excellent point of view if you don’t mind rampant inflation and destruction of Canadian productivity.
The problem with UBI, in particular, is that not working will be seen as a viable option to working. Businesses will have to drastically increase pay to workers in order to be competitive with UBI, and thus have to drastically increase costs of good and services to pay for the increases in pay. Think $10 coffees at Tim Hortons, $15 loaves of bread, $500 to enjoy a dinner and show on a date night. Then where are we? Back to where we started. The UBI income will be worthless and people will cry for an increase to match the ever increasing costs of living. It’s a vicious circle. We need hands up not hand outs.
If someone wants to be an artist, it’s called a hobby, unless they can turn it into a supportive business.
As for the definition of rich, you provided that. Not me. Almost everyone in Canada is rich by a global view of poverty (baring the worst of our Reserves).
OAS clawback starts at what? $79k now? The government seems to think you’re not poor enough to deserve all the old age pogey after this income. Sounds about right to stop calling yourself poor to me, if I was forced to come up with some rational explanation of subdividing the poor and the middle class+.
#268 MF on 06.03.20 at 11:42 am
—
Who said hope? Did you misread?
You have been preaching that Canada is so great and we are better than our US neighbors but you know nothing about what makes our economy work.
Canada is a G7 country BECAUSE of the US. They let us siphon a little bit of their GDP off for our prosperity and their security. Without them, we are a cold version of Venezuela.
I am tired of holier than thou people looking down at the US.
#282 not 1st on 06.03.20 at 1:23 pm
#268 MF on 06.03.20 at 11:42 am
—
Who said hope? Did you misread?
You have been preaching that Canada is so great and we are better than our US neighbors but you know nothing about what makes our economy work.
Canada is a G7 country BECAUSE of the US. They let us siphon a little bit of their GDP off for our prosperity and their security. Without them, we are a cold version of Venezuela.
I am tired of holier than thou people looking down at the US.
—————
The world knows an attack on Canada is equivalent to an attack on the US. We can not overstate how much protection the US provides Canada.
The best analogy is one of siblings in a row playground. You pick a fight with one and you are picking a fight with both.
#278 Toronto_CA on 06.03.20 at 1:07 pm
I didn’t say it wasn’t a regressive tax according to the dictionary definition. I said that simply the virtue of it being a regressive tax does not invalidate its merits as a revenue boosting tool in a country where the middle class is effectively tapped out and raising income tax can only go so far before a tsunami-level brain drain is promulgated.
You seem to be trying to have it both ways. On the one hand you state, irrelevantly, that everyone in Canada is rich by global standards, but then argue that “the poor” in Canada should essentially pay nothing. So which is it? Are we all “rich” or aren’t we? If even Canada’s lower-income ranks are “rich” by global standards, why shouldn’t they also be asked to contribute their fair share to live in safe, functioning, Western democracy?
Actually, what the lower-income people do with their income IS my business because they pay nothing in taxes to support the welfare state. If their drinking, smoking, junk food consumption, consumer electric shopping addiction, and general lack of impulse control leads to increased public healthcare and other costs, it is only fair that they contribute to the system in the form of sales tax.
#283 Howard on 06.03.20 at 2:02 pm
#278 Toronto_CA on 06.03.20 at 1:07 pm
I didn’t say it wasn’t a regressive tax according to the dictionary definition. I said that simply the virtue of it being a regressive tax does not invalidate its merits as a revenue boosting tool in a country where the middle class is effectively tapped out and raising income tax can only go so far before a tsunami-level brain drain is promulgated.
————————-
That should be “prompted”, not promulgated…
#272 IHCTD9 on 06.03.20 at 12:18 pm
#264 Wrk.dover on 06.03.20 at 11:14 am
#222 Howard on 06.03.20 at 6:56 am
I think you need to reevaluate your definition of the word “rich”.
People in Canada earning $100K a year are not rich!
————————————
1/3 of the people on earth living on a couple of dollars a day want to slap you silly!
—
I think Howard meant to say Canadians *who live in the GTA/GVRD* who make 100k are not rich – which is essentially true.
If I made 100k where I live, I’d be up to my neck in Yamahas and bass boats!
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We clear 50 and don’t even miss 1/4 of that going to TSFA contributions. More toys accumulated than I have time to play with, even on house arrest.
The problem with people that cry poor, on good income is this: None of the money that goes through their weak hands sticks to them in the form of items to use for the rest of their life. Nor do they properly care for them.
The first thing my wife and I bought together was a ten year old Troy Built Tiller, for twice what it had cost new in the decade of inflation. It is now is 50 years old, still starts on the first pull, and we saw a barn find just like it this winter in the very same shape going for four times what we had paid. Eight times new price!
Don’t bait me on life style, I already did all of this here years ago. It’s a finance blog, not a prepper site.
#81 Ed on 06.02.20 at 5:30 pm
My daughters Filipino nanny quit to go work for another family willing to pay her under the table while she collects CERB then UI.
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They’ve got a snitch line, report her. This is fraudulent in two ways – working under the table (no income tax – I’d like to see her new employers punished, too), and collecting the CERB fradulently.
Does this sort of thing not make you angry? Does it not make everyone angry. This sort of thing, multiplied many times over, adds up to serious money. Money that will come out of the pockets of the rest of us.
the Jaguar
Hungry for change? You won’t have to wait long. This society may be unrecognizable in a few months. For one thing, there’s a good chance that the current violence in the streets won’t blow over as it has before. There hasn’t been such sudden, massive unemployment before, not even in the Great Depression — and we’re not even the same country that went through that rough episode. Just about every arrangement in contemporary life is on-the-rocks one way or another. Big business, small business, show business… it’s all cratering.
okay I found it – James Howard Kunstler
and it’s very true we are not the same country that went through the Great Depression. First of all James Howard Kunstler is writing about the United States not Canada but we’re not the same country we were. My father lived on a hard-scrabble farm in Parry Sound District. There was no unemployment insurance. No expectation of government help. My grandfather turned to logging. Fell the trees. Drag them down to the lake by horse and wait until spring to float them over to the rail line. From there, the railway would take them down to Burks Falls. Once there, they would be tallied and payment made. There was a story that my grandfather guarded the logs with a rifle. I don’t know if it was true.
Just purchased this on amazon. Homewreckers
I was too young and did not have the funding at the time of this book. If I had only known.
Homewreckers: How a Gang of Wall Street Kingpins, Hedge Fund Magnates, Crooked Banks, and Vulture Capitalists Suckered Millions Out of Their Homes and Demolished the American Dream
Two years before the housing market collapsed in 2008, Donald Trump looked forward to a crash: “I sort of hope that happens because then people like me would go in and buy,” he said. But our future president wasn’t alone. While millions of Americans suffered financial loss, tycoons pounced to heartlessly seize thousands of homes—their profiteering made even easier because, as prize-winning investigative reporter Aaron Glantz reveals in Homewreckers, they often used taxpayer money—and the Obama administration’s promise to cover their losses.
I wonder how mad Communist China is right now about Huawei/Canada/BCE and Telus.
#104 conan on 06.02.20 at 6:10 pm
Still that is not enough and I do not think there is room for more income tax.
So it has to be innovation. Meaning, smarter government.
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We’re in trouble then with the current crew.
#289 James on 06.03.20 at 2:16 pm
Just purchased this on amazon. Homewreckers
Two years before the housing market collapsed in 2008, Donald Trump looked forward to a crash: “I sort of hope that happens because then people like me would go in and buy,” he said. But our future president wasn’t alone. While millions of Americans suffered financial loss, tycoons pounced to heartlessly seize thousands of homes—their profiteering made even easier because, as prize-winning investigative reporter Aaron Glantz reveals in Homewreckers, they often used taxpayer money—and the Obama administration’s promise to cover their losses.
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Here, I’ve made a small, factual correction to the last part of that statement:
‘While millions of Americans suffered financial loss, tycoons lent a helping hand by buying thousands of homes that nobody else would buy- this helped to prop up millions of people with government economic stimulus programs aimed at supporting the most vulnerable. The tycoons are owed a debt of gratitude.’
As a method to pay for all of these COVID-19 related benefits, how about enacting a fee that I WILL NOT be required to pay, for a change?
During the last election, the Liberals promised that everyone who had a cannabis-related offense of simple possession could get a pardon free of charge. This would save these “hardened” criminals about $600. Now I’m not saying that they should be charged the full amount, but a couple of hundred bucks to offset the administration necessary to expunge a record would bring back some much needed funds to the government’s purse.
And guess what? Those of us that stayed clean, or were just too chicken to risk it, would in turn not have to pay, for a change.
According to Global (https://globalnews.ca/news/5712495/cannabis-pardons/), approximately a quarter of a million people could be seeking pardons. Charge each $200 (those that haven’t yet received a pardon), and watch the Canadian government enrich itself with about $50M.
I know it doesn’t even begin to cover the deficit, but it would make me feel good for staying out of trouble for 54 years.
293 Former Navy Chief
Imagine how much could have been saved by not charging quarter of a million people for simple possession.
The fact is liberals, NDP are economic hitman of their countries. they do it on purpose to spend tax rack up debt.
Even without a covid19 or some other pandemic they would of done the same thing maybe take 5 years longer. It is so obvious all the liberals, NDP, Greens socialists etc. do is destroy and not create society.
If you don’t know this by now you will feel the future poverty and famine as countless any other countries from Venezuela to USSR.
https://www.therecord.com/ts/politics/provincial/2020/06/03/identifying-code-red-nursing-homes-could-tip-them-to-surprise-inspections-minister-says.html
“The History of Regulation/Deregulation of Inspections in Ontario:
The Ontario Health Coalition also campaigned actively on this issue: see http://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/wp-content/uploads/ltcjune132012.pdf.
Annual inspections were reinstated. Under Health Minister Eric Hoskins, new fines were created as penalties for homes that were not compliant with inspection orders. The legislation, The Strengthening Quality and Accountability for Patients Act (2017), was passed in late 2017 but was not enacted before the Liberals lost power and has not been enacted by the Ford government.
“When the Ford government took power in 2018 the comprehensive annual unannounced inspections were ended.”
For more information: Natalie Mehra (416) 230-6402, executive director, Ontario Health Coalition (cell).
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/06/01/2041801/0/en/Fact-Check-Briefing-Note-on-Inspections-in-Ontario-s-Long-Term-Care-Homes.html
I think a great tax that younger progressives would like is a $10,000 iphone, mobile device tax. This way they can be progressive and pay their fair share.
#23 Dr.Tom on 06.02.20 at 3:55 pm
CNN headquarters attacked in Atlanta… priceless!!
Funny no coverage of the anti-media component of the riots/protests?
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You mean this from 6 days ago?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/cnn-center-vandalized-protest-atlanta-destroyed/index.html
I get you have to push some conspiratory agenda so your own worldview makes sense, but you really need to put more effort into it.