Free money

Ten years ago. Mark Carney was our central bank boss. “Individuals who have taken on too much debt could be at risk of going broke if there is another adverse economic shock,” he told reporters, while delivering the latest interest rate news.

Nobody cared. The debt-to-income ratio for households was 150%. The average Toronto property cost $431,000. There was a housing boom.

Today that GTA place is $821,000 and singles go for $1.2 million. The national debt ratio is 176% and in Toronto and Vancouver 450% for detached homebuyers. Over this decade real estate and debt have ascended together. Carney moved on, Stephen Poloz took over, and now as he leaves the Bank of Canada that ‘adverse economic shock’ has arrived.

In spades. Who knew it would be a pandemic?

So here we are with a 13% unemployment rate, 7.6 million on government income support, 80% of small businesses shut, 720,000 people with deferred mortgage payments, airplanes grounded, highways empty, schools shut, subways vacant and the immediate future foggy. The central bank has pulled out all the stops, using $150 billion to buy residential mortgages, while the federal government’s spending $250 billion more than it has to keep households from financial ruin.

An indictment of our society, and affirmation we’re a nation of financial illiterates? You bet. Like the 29-year old Ontario mom, Melanie, using the $2,000-per-month CERB to buy her kids dirt bikes. The government money is greater than her employment income, by the way. Now the windfall’s gone. (I hate to showcase an individual, but she agreed to speak with a CTV reporter. So the story’s out there.).

Source: CTV

Thus, a legacy of the virus could be Covid cash. Ongoing governmental income support. How does Mr. Trudeau propose to turn it off? If 13% unemployment falls to 10%, then 8% over the rest of 2020 and beyond (a likely pattern), you can bet there’ll be political pressure to keep the funds flowing. Especially in the new world with fewer employers and less risk tolerance. Many believe this will lead to UBI – the universal basic income.

The lobbying effort has been ramped up dramatically thanks to the virus. The pandemic, as it turns out, was everything the pro-UBI lobby could have hoped for. The federal CERB, proponents argue, should be made permanent, extended to all citizens and continue seamlessly from where the Covid cash leaves off. There’s a well-oiled, politically-connected lobby group. An expanded group of advocates. And a slick website clearly hooking the virus into a universal income. Here it is.

The argument: there are more people than work available. Globalization stole jobs. AI is finishing off the rest. Lack of income means stress, preventing people from realizing their human capital. For example, there’d be more entrepreneurs if they could start businesses without worrying about paying rent or buying food – since the UBI would handle that. Plus the universal basic income would essentially eliminate poverty, plumping the middle and narrowing the gap between the wealthy and the rest. And this, you might notice, fits in perfectly with the Trudeau agenda – since we already have a federal Minister of Middle Class Prosperity.

Here’s the argument:

  • Universal Basic Income is an innovation policy: it recaptures our risk tolerance: unlocking the opportunity for everyone to take bigger risks, think long term, and create.
  • A Universal Basic Income defends equality of opportunity & self-reliance in a world where technological job displacement is reducing incomes for many.
  • A Universal Basic Income guarantees there is no longer a “working poor” ensuring that ongoing technological innovation is directed at preserving and expanding a middle class way of life for everyone.
  • UBI is an economic need that puts markets in service to humanity, installing the plumbing into capitalism that adds resilience and robustness to the economy, ensuring everyone can fully participate to their potential.
  • Universal Basic Income abolishes poverty and reduces human suffering as well as all reducing the costs of poverty to society.

It’s not a new idea, of course. Conservative senator Hugh Segal was pumping the concept of a guaranteed annual income decades ago. There have been pilot projects in various regions of Canada (mixed results). And this is a key plank in the increasingly influential ‘progressive’ wing of the US Democratic party. It goes hand-in-hand with MMT (Modern Monetary Theory) whose left-wing adherents believe central banks should print all the money a society and its citizens need, since they just owe it to themselves. Kinda like our prime minister giving us $250 billion we don’t have.

Of course UBI would cost a mother of a pile. Providing it to the 7.5 million at the bottom of the income scale would require $43 billion, says the Parliamentary Budget Office. Extending it to everyone would take $76 billion, even with it taxed back from higher-income folks. That’s equal to 50% of all the employment taxes collected today – suggesting revenues might have to jump that much to afford UBI. But that’s okay. The rich can pay. (Here’s a snapshot of federal revenues and expenses.)

By the way, polls find Canadians overwhelmingly support a universal basic income. Just as they’re loving their CERB. And what it buys. Free money. Varoom.

Anyway, it’s coming. Hide your stash.

 

374 comments ↓

#1 Hotels on 05.10.20 at 1:01 pm

Imagine your next visit to a hotel. First you check in and are handed your door entry card. You’re having to handle the card knowing the front desk receptionist, wearing a mask, touched it. You ride up to the 4th floor in a very cramped elevator that a group of people just got out of. As they step out and you step in, one of the people in the group sneezes harmlessly a few feet away. You hold your breath all the way up to the 4th floor.

You place the contaminated card into your door. You enter and look around. The first thing you start wondering about is if the door knob or light switches are clean. You immediately go to the bathroom to wash your hands. Are the faucets sanitized? Have all the towels been changed, or were a few unused ones left over from the guest yesterday? You have to use the toilet – before you sit, you’re thinking – did they disinfect the whole thing? Is the toilet paper roll and is the Kleenex box new?

You turn on the TV with the remote control – too late, the maid forgot to wipe the remote. Wash your hands again! You pull off the bed spread which probably hasn’t been cleaned recently, and toss it onto the floor. You imagine last night’s guest laying on the mattress and breathing into the pillow for 8 hours. But hey good news – they put a new pillow case and sheet over top of it. No worries there!

You toss and turn all night worrying. Thinking about how they cleaned the carpet that you just walked on with your bare feet. Did the last guest do the same? Did the cleaning staff wear booties while they vacuumed? Oh yea, vacuums are great at spreading air particles further around? You know that Covid 19 virus can last on most surfaces more than 3 days.

The next morning is even more daunting as you stand naked in front of the bathtub, pondering the knobs, curtain and drain. The included breakfast buffet is no more. The restaurant has other diners wearing masks. The server comes up to you wearing a mask and rubber gloves. But were the cooks and dishwashers wearing their’s in the kitchen?

Some good news though is that you drove there. You don’t have to take that cramped shuttle bus to the airport right?

You check out and look at the bill – $220 per night. Money well spent.

Maybe day trips instead this summer.

#2 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 1:06 pm

” Hide your stash”

+++

Where?
The govt can ( and does) climb up your butt and live there for years auditing if they think you owe them money.

Steve McQueen in Papillion proved that eventually, everyone pays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LNyQBILJr0

#3 crossbordershopper on 05.10.20 at 1:07 pm

UBI is here in many forms already, anyone 65 or older gets a guaranteed minimum cheque, regardless of how much CPP they have, its just basically added back to see how much GIS you get.
I find it sad seeing old people one worked at lower end paying job all there life scraping by renting never really going on trip or having a new dirt bike for the kids and another who honestly never worked a day in their life, not even one. (you see it with a yellow oas form and that’s all they have, plus a provincial white welfare slip) for the sum of their entire life contribution.
the difference is nothing maybe 5 to 10 bucks a day, so honestly, stay home or go big is so true today and moving forward, either go to the USA and go for broke, or stay home playing video games in the basement waiting for the govt cheque. Education doesn’t mean anything, being a good person doesn’t mean anything, in the end we are all the same, a weird utopia, nameless faceless(with masks) people walking around where no one knows anyone or talks to anyone or does anything.

#4 SOMETHINGS UP on 05.10.20 at 1:09 pm

SIGN ME UP!!!!

The RICH get their taxbreaks…. and most don’t do a damn thing to deserve it.

The poor get the world handed too them.

and the MIDDLE-CLASS pay for both…..

Work ……. for what????

#5 First on 05.10.20 at 1:10 pm

FIRST!!!!

#6 Gg on 05.10.20 at 1:11 pm

Garth
Is there not a theoretical tax rate on income and capital gains where the price of flight of capital and individuals is offsetting any revenue gains and are we not up against the edge of this limit now ?

#7 Alberta Ed on 05.10.20 at 1:13 pm

Welcome to Venezuela North – Justin’s legacy.

#8 JM on 05.10.20 at 1:14 pm

Sadly, the UBI movement does not take into consideration the human condition of our inherent laziness to get away with doing as little as possible. We’re no different than the ducks who decide not to go south during the winter because they continue to get fed. Instinctively, there is no value to doing more. Society as a whole has become soft and unfortunately most people don’t want to admit it.

#9 Millennial Realist on 05.10.20 at 1:15 pm

Sounds good for anyone who was not born on third base.

Covid-19 has indeed had many terrible impacts.

But it also is giving us a desperately needed pause to reconsider our planet-destroying anti-environmental practices, and our horrific economic distortions that benefit a tiny minority at the expense of the rest of us all.

Very few investors, financial advisors, and status quo corporatists get this. Most continue to look through the rear-view mirror.

It would be wiser to look ahead, at the wall they are about to crash into.

Big change is coming.

Be part of it.

Or be run over by it.

#10 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 1:17 pm

@ MF ( splitting Hairs
“Weren’t you the guy who said he is looking forward to people dying because of an earthquake in the future?”
++++
I said I couldnt wait for a massive earthquake , said nothing about people dying.
++++
Essentially opining about the inept govt response to a slow motion “emergency” like Covid 1984 ….. should be a real riot ( figuratively and literally) when we have a major quake, roads, rail and deliveries are no exitant for weeks or months and we’ll watch all levels of govt dither and offer up flow charts and “we’re all in this together” tv ads to a simmering, furious public.
I’m watching people losing their shite now in a 10 minute Safeway line.
I cant wait to see what happens this Fall when the virus comes back twice as strong and we have to go through this all again with harsher “social distancing” rules.
But you keep putting words in my mouth and splitting hairs in that touchy feely pc world of yours..
Just dont be surprised if you get mugged for a pack of toilet paper at Thanksgiving.

https://www.vancourier.com/vancouver-police-report-30-per-cent-increase-in-robberies-during-pandemic-1.24121109

#11 Emile on 05.10.20 at 1:17 pm

Remember TAGS; the income strategy to support groundfish workers in the maritimes? It eventually shut down.

https://www.gov.nl.ca/publicat/tags/text/page9.htm

#12 Linda on 05.10.20 at 1:18 pm

The concept of UBI is obviously attractive to all those who do not want to have to do the work to make ends meet. Even better for those who are the ‘have nots’, this plan would take from the ‘have’s’ & ‘make things fair’. The fact that many of those who currently have have worked hard & saved with the goal of income security is not something those who desire the same level of living want to hear. In their mind, those people either inherited, cheated or stole their way to the position they have or had ‘unfair’ economic advantages because of when/where they were born. Could not possibly be because those people worked hard or made prudent economic choices like paying their debts instead of blowing it all on – for instance – dirt bikes for the tykes. Or a top of the line trophy cell phone, in another example of how CERB is being put to good use.

The argument that ‘human potential’ would magically be unlocked if they just didn’t have to stress over making a living? Meadow muffins of the highest order.

#13 Leftover on 05.10.20 at 1:19 pm

Do the supporters of Modern Monetary Theory understand that one of its principals is no taxes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

UBI? I need to see the arithmetic. Might just agree if it means abolition of EI, OAS, the Child Benefit and any other programs funded from general revenue, along with the bureaucracies required to operate them.

Show me the money.

#14 Paterfamilias on 05.10.20 at 1:19 pm

” Rob Peter + Pay Paul = _ ” . Acknowledgement GBS.

#15 Covid 19-84 song on 05.10.20 at 1:20 pm

What do you get when you fall for BS?
T2 with a pin to burst your bubble
That’s what you get for all your trouble
I’ll never see my mom again
I’ll never cut my hair again
What do you get when you go outside?
You get enough germs to catch pneumonia
After you do, they think they own ya
I’ll never work again
Dontcha know that I’ll never pay tax again?
Don’t tell me what it’s all about
‘Cause I’ve been there and I’m glad I’m out
Out of those chains, those chains that bind you
That is why I’m here to remind you
What do you get when you vote Lieberal?
You only get lies and pain and sorrow
So far at least until tomorrow
I’ll never fall for l their crap again
No, no, I’ll never fall for their crap again…

#16 Grunt on 05.10.20 at 1:23 pm

Elevators: The immediate challenge of any hirise during social distancing.

Garth can you imagine a return to work in the financial district of any city? The lineup for elevators if only 2 or 3 persons are permitted at a time? The security supervision involved, stopping between floors and more trying to get on? Let alone cleaners, contractors & delivery people trying to use them? And what about “venting, ” turning over the air inside them? And for that matter turnover of fresh air inside office floors?

Elevators are the real throttle point of any tower during this pandemic.

#17 Brian Ripley on 05.10.20 at 1:29 pm

PLUNGE-O-METER is published with April data:
http://www.chpc.biz/plunge-o-meter.html

The Plunge-O-Meter support models are engaged now with Calgary and Edmonton single family detached prices hitting the first measure of dropping back to 2013 levels. The next stop below is 2009 and is only a further drop of 15-16%.

Vancouver prices will hit 2013 levels with another 27% drop and Toronto will be there with a further 33% drop.

When earnings drop so do asset prices.

#18 Millennial Realist on 05.10.20 at 1:33 pm

#15 Covid 19-84 song

OK Boomer.

You do realize of course, that song reference is now 50 years old, eh!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzQBOBoPg04

1970 is a long time ago…………

So let me guess, you are a Boomer about 70, born on third base and have convinced yourself you hit a triple?

How uncommon here! LOL!

Here’s another big change coming: transactional taxation will replace income tax and instead put much smaller, more efficient taxes on every transaction.

It will soon be impossible for the 1% to hide their monies in tax havens, here and elsewhere, as a result.

Simple. Efficient. Understandable. No one is special or exempted.

UBI and universal taxation on all transactions.

A perfect way to help us face the challenges ahead.

#19 Bob on 05.10.20 at 1:40 pm

For all those people who support UBI,
let me state first and foremost:

Our family is one of the “rich”

And if you raise my taxes above 50% marginal tax bracket, I will work less.

Who will pay for UBI then?

#20 dlt inc on 05.10.20 at 1:43 pm

I find it interesting that when someone says that we could pay for all sorts of social benefits if we only taxed the rich more, others will argue that even if we taxed the rich at !00%,the amount of taxes collected would be a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money needed to pay for everything. On the other hand you read articles that say 8 or 10 families or whatever have more wealth than 50 % or so of the people in the whole country. Something doesn’t add up here. If a very small number of people are that rich, then, unless they are terribly poor investors, they must be making as much as 50% of the people. So what gives? If they were taxed properly, the money raised should equal about as much as what 50% of the poorest people make. Which should be one hell of a lot of money.

What is a ‘proper’ tax on wealthier people? Do you take all their income? Or tax all their assets? When only 300,000 people in Canada earn more than $300,000 a year and are taxed already at 54% of income, what is ‘proper’? The uber-wealthy, over $30 million in assets, number less than 11,000. How do you get $76 billion from them? – Garth

#21 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 1:43 pm

@#168 Hookshot
“……and step in front of that class …..”
+++

Sorry.
By nature I’m a humble person like Sail Away.
:)

I wouldnt be able to handle the “hero” worship… foisted upon me day after day for……doing my job.

All while the union demands more teachers assistants to handle the “special needs” kids with another newly diagnosed “learning disability”.
Where does it end? Everything is diagnosed these days.
I cant wait til “laziness” becomes a learning disability. That should bankrupt the education system with “one to one” student/assistant ratios.
Seems we’re almost there.
Nah , it would be too embarrassing…. milking the bankrupt system.
I’d rather stick to elevator ofaculatory overload.
Far more immediately rewarding.

#22 Arcticfox on 05.10.20 at 1:44 pm

Think of UBI as a reverse Cantillon Effect. Have you noticed as the middle class has been shrinking, with that lost wealth moving up to the .1 %, M2 velocity has been collapsing. Kinda makes sense, if you already have a couple of yachts, if your personal wealth goes up another billion, you’re not going to buy another. Also, if you follow Macro trends at all, doesn’t take a genius to see a problem with the following…unsustainable debt at every level of Western society..consumption based economies (>70%)…diminishing capital in the hands of said consumers. Also ponder this. What happens if we get a negative print on CPI, will this force central banks on this side of the pond to go more negative(below zero)to keep real rates negative to prevent deflationary spiral? Also have you noticed that with the big equity bounce, bond yields aren’t biting. Didn’t the 2’s go negative last week for the first time ever. It wasn’t that long ago that people were dismissing the 2-10’s inversion. Buffet’s favourite metric market cap/gdp is near record..imagine if gdp prints negative..ratio now infinite, lol. Don’t get me wrong, I’m ultimately not bearish equities as if I think we end up with some form of currency conflagration, I’d rather be holding a claim(equity share) on some productive company than cash. Buffet is sitting on record pile of cash waiting for his ratio to come down to present him with buying opportunity as this has always worked in past. Problem is, with the central banks flooding the markets with liquidity, will he get that opportunity? Sorry for ramble ..

#23 Flop... on 05.10.20 at 1:50 pm

Not too worried about the current virus doing the rounds.

In my mind, Canadians are in danger from a more dangerous kind of fever.

Cabin Fever…

M45BC

#24 Pizzaguy on 05.10.20 at 1:54 pm

The poor get the world handed too them.

and the MIDDLE-CLASS pay for both…..

Work ……. for what????

~~
Yes … I make $115K year . Any extra $ into my paycheck 1/2 goes to Govt. Last 2 months I worked an average 60 hrs per week. 2 major projects to deliver. In April I worked every single day except 1 Saturday. No overtime, no nothing. Gen X sense of responsibility I guess.

At 50 yo I’m now thinking I should retire soon. My house is paid, I have some saving. Then living from UBI doesn’t some a bad idea. No stress and plenty of time for hobbies and stretching classes.

Happy Sunday everyone !

#25 paulo on 05.10.20 at 1:56 pm

Challenge For The Left Wing Gang in the Steerage Section:
Not advocating for a UBI in any way, but it would be interesting if a cost of program’s currently in use that would be eliminated could be established.
Assuming things like general welfare,various provincial disability programs,and a whole host of social supports currently funded that would be redundant could be cut along with the administrative costs etc ??

#26 Arcticfox on 05.10.20 at 2:01 pm

Also, there a big following for “The Milkshake Theory” which postulates that, even with all the $US printing by fed plus unlimited swap lines, the resulting liquidity will be woefully insufficient to address specifically all the Eurodollar debt out there. Speculation follows that $US index is going to have a super spike with Euro leading way down to 80 and below. My question is, with the orange guy making it clear in the past that he wants a low $US, what are the chances that we get some Sunday night announcement of a new Plaza Accord?

#27 Do we have all the facts on 05.10.20 at 2:03 pm

In 2018/19 total GOC revenues were $330 billion of which $162 billion was collected from personal income taxes (50%) and $50 billion from corporate income taxes (15%).

Have champions of a guaranteed annual income considered what the impact of Covid 19:might be in 2020 and beyond. It seems probable that revenue from personal and corporate income taxes could decline by as much as 20%, or more than $40 billion, in 2020.

Consumption taxes contributed an additional $40 billion and employed Canadians contributed another $21 billion in E U premiums. It would seems probable that revenues from these sources could decline by another $10 billion.

There is little doubt that Canadian GDP will decline in 2020 to the point where total debt to GDP Ratio, including all government debt, could 80% and that is a real concern.

If total GOC revenues decline by 15% in 2020 the shortfall will have to be borrowed. Am I alone in thinking that the timing for any consideration of a guaranteed annual income is just a bit off.

Time to keep the boat from sinking not planning shore excursions for the passengers.

#28 Stone on 05.10.20 at 2:04 pm

There is a problem with UBI. If UBI is provided, the underground economy will flourish as people will not want what they make over and above UBI to be taxed away. That isn’t in the best interest of the gouvernment.

For those who want UBI and have no interest in lifting a finger, they won’t care. The problem will be that those who do care To accomplish something will not remain to be milked by useless, lazy, UBI sheeple. At that point, when those who care to accomplish something are gone, who feeds the system?

A true race to the bottom.

#29 mj on 05.10.20 at 2:05 pm

I think ubi is a great idea, but I think a few things should happen with it. For example, if everyone gets a thousand dollars a month, it should be for everyone who makes under 100 thousand dollars. Second, they should raise the gst to help pay for it. Maybe instead of 5 percent, make it 10 percent. Last thing is reduce mortgage amortization from 25 years, to 10 years. That would control the housing market. If any politicians are reading this, please take note.

#30 T on 05.10.20 at 2:06 pm

#9 Millennial Realist on 05.10.20 at 1:15 pm
Sounds good for anyone who was not born on third base.

Covid-19 has indeed had many terrible impacts.

But it also is giving us a desperately needed pause to reconsider our planet-destroying anti-environmental practices, and our horrific economic distortions that benefit a tiny minority at the expense of the rest of us all.

Very few investors, financial advisors, and status quo corporatists get this. Most continue to look through the rear-view mirror.

It would be wiser to look ahead, at the wall they are about to crash into.

Big change is coming.

Be part of it.

Or be run over by it.

—————

Many of our generation, yes I’m also a millennial, believe nonsense just like you. It’s very sad.

Yes, change is coming. However be careful what you wish for. There is collateral, unforeseen, damage with every big change in society. Some may get run over going forward, others will get run over when it backs up.

Think about the generation being born now. They will inherit the earth. Burdening them with more debt will only hurt them. But, of course, most millennials in Canada have a self centred and naive world view along with an instilled need for immediate gratification.

The only thing boomers did wrong was raise a bunch of me first, me only, self centred idiots. If you look at the root causes of the majority of ‘problems’ millennials like to whine about, the vast majority of them are self inflicted.

Stop whining. Go do something with yourself. Hard work and planning pays off. If you don’t like your current situation, make a plan to better it and work towards that plan.

#31 Reality is stark on 05.10.20 at 2:09 pm

A country really thrives when you take incentives away.
The best way to explain it to students is to tell them that if you score a 95 you are better off to take a 75 and give those extra points to the person who scored a 55.
That way you can each go to a lessor institution with a similar opportunity.
This is more fair.
Kind of like telling a woman to settle for the short fat bald guy and leave the tall dark handsome professional guy for other girls. After all she is no more deserving than any other girl since quite frankly they are all the same anyway.
Yup UBI is brilliant. I know a few Venezuelan professors who have advocated the program for years.
Long live mediocrity.

#32 Roial1 on 05.10.20 at 2:14 pm

The paragraphs below were written by a nurse who works with ventilators:

Here you go folks… for those people who don’t understand what it means to be on a ventilator but want to take the chance of going back to work….

For starters, it’s NOT an oxygen mask put over the mouth while the patient is comfortably lying down and reading magazines. Ventilation for COVID-19 is a painful intubation that goes down the throat and stays there until the patient lives or dies.

It is done under anesthesia for 2 to 3 weeks without moving, often upside down, with a tube inserted from the mouth up to the trachea and allows you to breathe to the rhythm of the lung machine.

The patient cannot talk or eat, or do anything naturally – the machine keeps them alive.

The discomfort and pain they feel from this means medical experts have to administer sedatives and painkillers to ensure tube tolerance for as long as the machine is needed. It’s like being in an artificial coma.

After 20 days from this treatment, a young patient loses 40% muscle mass, and gets mouth or vocal cord trauma, as well as possible pulmonary or heart complications.

Add a tube into your stomach, either through your nose or skin for liquid food, a sticky bag around your butt to collect the diarrhea, a foley to collect urine, an IV for fluids and meds, an A-line to monitor your BP that is completely dependent upon finely calculated med doses, teams of nurses, CRNA’s and MA’s to reposition your limbs every two hours and lying on a mat that circulates ice cold fluid to help bring down your 104 degree temp.

It is for this reason that old or already weak people cannot withstand the treatment and die. Many of us are in this situation … so stay safe unless you want to take the chance of ending up here. This is NOT the flu.

Anyone want to try all that out?

#33 SmallTownSteve on 05.10.20 at 2:16 pm

I can see the 267000 “1%ers” leaving Canada as soon as possible and taking their assets somewhere else. We will just tax the rich more says the government! Oops. No one left to tax…

#34 Flop... on 05.10.20 at 2:16 pm

I put up s chart the other day that showed Canada supposedly has 44 guys that are billionaires.

I say guys because a couple of days later they showed the richest females, and I didn’t see a Canadian Billionairess on the list.

You’ll have to settle for one of them pesky Millionairess’

There was one Billionairess Sheila in Australia.

I had a chance and muffed it.

I will live with my poor decision…

M45BC

#35 Moose on 05.10.20 at 2:17 pm

Didn’t Finland just end a 4 year universal income study and decided not to continue it as the negative out-weight the positive?

#36 Calgary retiree on 05.10.20 at 2:18 pm

UBI sounds good. We already have it for the 65+ by way of the GIS. I know people on GIS and, contradicting some of comment screamers, they all worked hard and long. Family backgrounds, disabilities, capabilities and the gig economy meant that they lacked the means to provide sufficient income at retirement.

The question is, what is the societal cost of NOT having UBI? As usual, the conservatives will blame the victim and are unwilling to pay for a program they ideologically oppose.

GIS is for poor people too old to work. No comparison to a universal UBI for fully-employable folks. – Garth

#37 Fused on 05.10.20 at 2:20 pm

#18 millennial Realist
I am sorry but that tax will penalize lower income earners way more than 1%.
Being one of those loathsome 1% the only time I do a transaction is for groceries, and most of the time I buy in bulk during peak season and process fruits and vegetables myself. I also buy meat direct from the farmer and also process that myself so no tax implications there either.
Booze is also home made, I bike to work so the tank gets filled once a month for $60.00.
What you will never get is the mindset to being rich, you think poor so therefore you are poor. You will go out and socialize 3-4 times a week, getting takeout because your too busy to make dinner/lunch/breakfast. do not disregard the buying over priced craft beer, burgers, ripped jeans, yoga pants etc, therefore you are paying the tax, never the 1%.
I pay cash(usually a 10% discount) get a better deal on everything and no tax is paid, and lower prices because of no fees to credit card companies by the proprietor also.
I make more money off of my investments than I do working and they are taxed at 50% of my employment income, so any extra money gets put to work in a tax efficient way, wage slaves do like the women in the article. Buying a depreciating asset that will sell at a 50% loss in two years time when the child outgrows the bike.
You in fact should get on the bus because right now you are constantly getting run over by it .
Honk, Honk, Millennial

#38 Medhi on 05.10.20 at 2:20 pm

The roots if UBI is much older than what presented here. At least it goes back to the begining of enlightenment and the Utopia by Thomas More

In modern era it was no one other than Richard Nixon that was just about to implement a UBI scheme in the war against poverty context:

https://thecorrespondent.com/4503/the-bizarre-tale-of-president-nixon-and-his-basic-income-bill/173117835-c34d6145

What changed his mind among others it seems was that in one of the pilot projects, the divorce rate appeared to jump up, which later revisit found that was due to an statistical mistake.

Finally among all people, Milton Friedman – the thought father of the neoliberalism as we now and as Reagan and Thatcher gifted to us – was a supporter of the idea of UBI, as it promises effective universal, and beurecrat less way to bring cash to the poor :

https://medium.com/basic-income/why-milton-friedman-supported-a-guaranteed-income-5-reasons-da6e628f6070

#39 Joseph R. on 05.10.20 at 2:21 pm

You forgot another argument for MMT: Banks sees government funding for any federal funding schemes as competition, since the government only deals with the Bank of Canada, not chartereed banks.

National currency comes from that debt the Government owes to the Bank of Canada.

You remember from high school that national currency is only used for transactions BETWEEN banks, not within them: E.g. Your bank account is with RBC and the merchant you purchase bread from also uses RBC as their bank then no national currency used in the exchange. It simply numbers moving accounts from the same bank. However, if the same merchant uses BMO as their banker then, only national currency can be used to erase the debt that now exist between RBC and BMO. It didn’t use to be like this: banks used to print their own money and it was to the descretion of the merchant to choose of they take the money from another bank or not before the creation of the Bank of Canada.

You can see the issue if the government gets more money from the Bank of Canada than there is transactions between chartered banks: the birth of hyperinflation

#40 Drill Baby Drill on 05.10.20 at 2:21 pm

For those who want UBI please take a basic math course first. There are not enough higher paid Canadians too support all of the layabouts wanting free dole.

#41 West Coast Rocker Dude on 05.10.20 at 2:21 pm

I’ve looked at the arguments for UBI, but even though I’ve been in the lowest income brackets most of my life, I don’t believe I’m owed anything. I made choices that didn’t generate the results I was working towards, but that’s my problem, not the government’s (or the taxpayer’s).

IMO, free money almost always breeds laziness in people. Why bother starting businesses or taking any financial risks? Even as a ‘poor’ guy my whole life, I’ve invested money I could barely afford into business opportunities on many occasions, and also starved for years touring with bands, working towards my goal of the “brass ring” in that industry. I did whatever I had to, to make something of my life because there was no safety net to fall back on. I knew if I failed I was going to continue to have nothing, and that was not an option I could live with. I doubt I would have had the drive to bother risking everything many times if I had a guaranteed income for doing nothing. I probably would have just sat around writing songs all day that no one even heard.

Another issue very few people seem to talk about is, without rent controls across the board, landords could easily just charge more for rent based on ‘what the market can afford’, putting a big chunk of the UBI money into their pockets (the guys everyone seems to hate who feel UBI is a good idea). Where I live (Vancouver) 1 bedrooms would probably rent for $3k a month instead of $2k if there was UBI without rent control.

#42 Gooblygoo on 05.10.20 at 2:22 pm

Rumour has it big news coming in the USA regarding thousands of sealed affidavits that are being acted on as we speak…. big names to be implicated going back to Obama administration and perhaps prior.

#43 Drill Baby Drill on 05.10.20 at 2:23 pm

How on earth will our economy expand if over 50% of our populace is on the dole? Who would invest in Canada under this system. How could we afford health care, native claims, MP’s salaries etc.

#44 Figure it Out on 05.10.20 at 2:23 pm

if “the federal government’s spending $250 billion more than it has,” where did it come from?

Did we sell some of our gold reserves? Or a maritime province? Did we borrow it from some guy who had it stashed in a coffee can under the bed? It seems like a lot. Why didn’t interest rates go shooting up?

#45 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 2:28 pm

Oh this will be a good blog…..

12 linda

“The concept of UBI is obviously attractive to all those who do not want to have to do the work to make ends meet.”

It would depend on the individual and the amount of UBI. Let’s remember CERB is intended for people who
could not work through no choice of their own, so UBI should be lower than that, as you would still have the option to work. Let’s make that the expectation that
you will work to some extent. A low wage earner may
choose to continue to work as that would simply be added to their UBI.

#46 ImGonnaBeSick on 05.10.20 at 2:30 pm

#1 Hotels on 05.10.20 at 1:01 pm

—–

As has always been the case… This isn’t the first disease, and in terms of some of the others you can, relatively mild for most you Numbskull.

#47 Andrewski on 05.10.20 at 2:31 pm

Happy Mother’s Day.

#48 Wkg on 05.10.20 at 2:32 pm

Here is the problem with your theory. I am in the highest tax bracket in my province. On top of what I earn, investment income roughly mirrors my wage. I am getting tired of the tax bills that I have to pay every year, and find myself asking, for what?

Bring it on, try and tax me more, I’ll be finished working, and will begin gifting assets.

I doubt that even the federal liberals are that obtuse. Although I have to admit that trudeau is much smarter since he grew the beard. Although, to be fair, it wasn’t a very high bar to begin with

#49 JohnAB on 05.10.20 at 2:34 pm

Friking communists. Now I’ll have to pay more taxes for the ones who don’t want to work? WTF? I left soviet union to get back into it?

#50 Sold Out on 05.10.20 at 2:35 pm

“Where’s the money for UBI going to come from?”

From ending corporate welfare and raising their tax rate back to 1984 levels, of course. New taxes on jobs formerly performed by humans, but now automated, as well. Increased consumption taxes, too. This trickle down crapola has been thoroughly debunked.

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/corporate-tax-rate

#51 Robert B on 05.10.20 at 2:42 pm

I wonder about all the off-shore money sent out of Canada. It seems it is all legal and no or little taxes paid.
No capital gains to pay and no corporate taxes.

Strabucks and Apple know this all too well.

#52 Brian Ripley on 05.10.20 at 2:42 pm

“Here’s another big change coming: transactional taxation will replace income tax and instead put much smaller, more efficient taxes on every transaction.#18 Millennial Realist on 05.10.20 at 1:33 pm

Thank you Millennial Realist for stating what I also think is a more efficient way of conducting fiscal policy as opposed to twiddling knobs via monetary policy (ZIRP & NIRP) which over the last decade+ has created unaffordable housing and further increased the wealth gap and made most of us unproductive.

For those who don’t understand the benefits of a transactional tax, I recommend you actually read and debate the 41 page PDF produced by Edgar L. Feige, Professor of Economics Emeritus at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/apt

Think about the desirability and feasibility of replacing the present system of personal and corporate income, sales, excise, capital gains, import and export duties, gift and estate taxes with a single comprehensive REVENUE NEUTRAL Automated Payment Transaction (APT) tax.

“The APT tax proposed in this paper is designed as a revenue neutral replacement for the present tax system (based on U.S. late 1990’s data). It is emphatically not intended as an additional source of revenue. It proposes to broaden the tax base by eliminating all implicit tax expenditures, all exemptions, deductions and credits while adding to the tax base the enormous volume of transactions representing exchanges of property rights to real and financial assets and liabilities. The flat rate tax required to maintain revenue neutrality is estimated to be in the neighborhood of 0.6 percent if total transactions volumes fall to half of their current levels.”from page 31 of Feige’s PDF

As I have said several times in this comment section, it will take a new generation of tech savvy scientists to implement, but we have the tools and we have the personnel.

Covid 19 is one problem with serious consequences, but the profound and accelerating destruction of our life supporting environment is an even greater challenge. Our descendants, millennials etal, deserve our action.

“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” Max Planck

I am 74 years old. It’s too late for me. BR.

#53 Marco on 05.10.20 at 2:49 pm

The rich can pay. It is a truth, absolute truth and nothing but a truth.

#54 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 2:52 pm

25 Paulo – things to be eliminated – or more correctly
contained within one program

OAS, GIS, welfare, EI ( an optional version perhaps in a
truer form?), CCB (UIB for kids?)…..

#55 UBI on 05.10.20 at 2:53 pm

With unemployment at record levels (5 million and counting), there are more people looking for jobs than the number of available jobs. With automation, there is need for fewer people. The country’s population must reduce by 50% to avoid mass unemployment and a drain on the country’s finances. Canada could support 15 million population considering that a lot of jobs are going to go away with automation. Housing will no longer be an issue and wages will increase if the population reduces.

#56 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 2:53 pm

@#9 Millenial Surrealist
“….Big change is coming…..”

+++

You are correct.
Massive , prolonged , unemployment.
Recession dragging on for years.
Just like the 1980’s…..
If you start to panic when it drags on for one year and then two….dont worry,……..
Just ask the nearest Boomer what they did to survived before “free money” was handed out by the dump truck load.
I’ve found that a bit of experience wins over stubborn, youthful arrogance every time.
:)

#57 Jay on 05.10.20 at 3:03 pm

Next up full out communism. UBI increases taxes to the point that no one can afford their houses anymore. Government takes over private property and along with the UBI, were all assigned housing. The millemials cheer it on. Then too many private business go bankrupt, government takes over those as well. Those who disobey are exiled to Nunavut. The rest of us start to work on the first 5 year plan, which entails work camps replacing the Alberta oil sands with fields and fields of solar panels.

We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us. All hail supreme leader Treadau!

Everyone laughs at how rediculois this is, but take a step back and think of the police state we are currently in. How free are you for a virus that is not even close to being deadly. Were already being threatened with further lockdowns if we don’t behave. Military use has already been threatened to enforce social distancing. Remember, we were told this was temporary, that if we stayed home for a few weeks we could go back to normal. That was 2 months ago.

#58 ConcernedNewWealth on 05.10.20 at 3:04 pm

So… what do you propose, Garth. We are selling off a percent of our startup and will be receiving significant money for this.

Story of my life… so now what? We lived on ramen for ten years while everyone bragged about what their house was worth, and we built this business, and now the govt is going to soak us?!?!!

What is the plan when you’re talking large sums of money.

#59 Small business sucker on 05.10.20 at 3:07 pm

OK, so, how do I hide my stash?

Ontario small business owner here: We’ve been in business for thirty+ years. Six employees. We’re considered “essential”, so we’re still open and paying everyone. March revenues declined 78%. April revenues declined 98.5%, year-over-year. Our biggest customer closed 300 locations (hopefully temporarily).

Our employees get paid, local property taxes get paid, landlord gets paid. But our customers ask for payment deferrals and credits, so we don’t. We’re careful with our budgeting, so we can see things through, for months if necessary. But, my income is only what’s left after all expenses. We’ve been fortunate to be able take advantage of the temporary wage subsidy offered by the federal government, which helps keep things ticking over. But, at a certain point, our company funds will run out.

I’ve been preternaturally careful with my personal and company money: I’m debt-free, have a good investment portfolio, and no mortgage. But it’s been a lifetime of watching expenses and trying to figure out how to run a successful business in a country that doesn’t particularly reward success.

So now, at age sixty, with retirement looming and, potentially, our business winding down involuntarily, I get the feeling that everything I’ve worked hard for will be up for grabs.

I’m pretty clear on all the standard strategies for minimizing taxes, and have maximized RRSP and TFSAs. But if there’s something I should know, or more that can be done, I’d be an eager student. But my guess is that it will be more of “We all need to give a little more to ensure our system is fair”. But fair to who… whom?

#60 Not So New Guy on 05.10.20 at 3:11 pm

The funny thing is that it seems all these money-printing zealots think that they have invented something new. That they are smarter than the average bear.

The reason we had sound money, backed by gold until the lunatic CBs took over the wheelhouse was because after thousands of years of trying EVERYTHING ELSE, we discovered that we needed to take control of the value of money out of the hands of people that have an agenda and incentive to skim.

This paper scam is nothing new. We are not smarter, better, or more informed!

If this does come to pass I think I have finally found something to throw at BTC because if not, the worthless Canadian paper will soon find its true value. That will be even lower than BTC for you BTC bears out there. We best turn it into assets ASAP

#61 Handsome Ned on 05.10.20 at 3:12 pm

Since we are already sliding down the slope to communism, we might as well go all the way. We should follow the example of the workers paradise, the former USSR. There was no such thing as ubi, everyone had a job. The cosmonaut, ballerina and floor sweeper all made the same wage. The motto was if you do not work you do not eat. You did not find a job in soviet Russia; soviet Russia found job for you. High school slacker…to the tractor factory you go.

#62 Gooblygoo on 05.10.20 at 3:17 pm

#7 Alberta Ed
_______________________

Unbelievable tragedy what happenned in Venezuela over such a short period of a couple decades….. once one of the wealthiest countries with huge hold reserves… all in the name of progression .

#63 CanadIain on 05.10.20 at 3:28 pm

So are UBI advocates just declaring that inflation is not a thing anymore? Cos you can bet your bottom dollar that your bottom dollar is not going to be worth much when everyone is getting $2,000 per month.

#64 Figmund Sreud on 05.10.20 at 3:28 pm

… the immediate future foggy.
____________________________

Since you mentioned “future”, … “foggy”. Bit of de-fogging in this – US-centric – piece. Few snips, first:

“It’s game-over for most of the U.S. oil industry. …

“Coronavirus has changed everything. The longer it lasts, the less the future will look anything like the past. …

“Most people, policy makers and economists are energy blind and cannot, therefore, fully grasp the gravity or the consequences of what is happening. …

“U.S. consumption has fallen about 30% from 20 mmb/d in January to 14 mmb/d in April. Refinery intakes are already 25% lower than in the first quarter of the year and will fall further as consumption decreases. Refineries will close. …

“Seventeen investment analysts recently estimated that U.S. GDP would contract an average of 30-35% in 2020 (Figure 5) within a range of 9-50%. …

… the whole piece:

GAME OVER FOR OIL, THE ECONOMY IS NEXT
https://www.artberman.com/2020/04/27/game-over-for-oil-the-economy-is-next/

… sail your life dinghy with utmost of care! ~~_/)~~

F.S. – Calgary, AB.

#65 Missihippi on 05.10.20 at 3:33 pm

A UBI is a bad idea. It removes the basic ‘right’ of agency that each one of us has to transform their life into something to be proud of. It also increases the reliance on government, which doesn’t always end pretty when you are at the mercy of a possible dictator or authoritarian who comes into power.

A UBI also dissolves our most basic values of delayed gratification. Of forging meaning in an activity or livelihood with the anticipation of earned reward.

The only thing Wynne’s UBI experiment proved was that we need a basic income to survive; that is, collect the things that we need to lead a decent living like food, shelter, etc. The experiment did not prove, however, a causal component that indicates that a government should be responsible for providing this basic income.

#66 Damifino on 05.10.20 at 3:35 pm

The human race has always proven itself an ambitious, altruistic, forward-thinking species unafraid of individual hard work and perpetually willing to share the fruits of same for the overall thriving of society.

I therefore believe a universal basic income would be no less than a smashing success and wonder why it’s never been implemented before now.

#67 Figure it Out on 05.10.20 at 3:38 pm

Alternative opinion: Maybe UBI leads to innovation.

Many of you may have noticed the last two (at least) governors of the BoC pissing and moaning about low Canadian productivity, and about businesses not investing to increase it. Well who’d bother? If you can usually find labour at $10-15/hour, educated at high school level or above, why bother buying or inventing automation to replace it? Is it easier to invent a machine to do the job, or to lobby Ottawa to import “temporary” foreign workers at low wages?

Anyone really think it is beyond the capability of Canadians to create a claw machine and a materials handler to dispense a double double and put a Boston creme in a bag with a serviette?

If the lazy fraction of labour won’t get out of bed to do the BS jobs, maybe increased automation will save the nation.

#68 Millennial Realist on 05.10.20 at 3:39 pm

#51 Brian Ripley

Thank you for your words of wisdom and experienced analysis.

We absolutely need smart Boomers like you to help build the future. It’s definitely not too late for you to share your thoughts and influence, hopefully for a couple more decades at least. (And if life-extending tech. comes as fast as possible for us all, it could be more…but that’s a topic for another day!)

Folks, this is a game changing situation now.

Probably just 6 months ago, most here probably considered the climate change 2030 ultimatum an out-of-touch bit of wishful thinking that would never be tolerated for all the disruption it implied.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/world-was-just-issued-12-year-ultimatum-climate-change-180970489/

Now, it’s looking like a smart escape hatch.

As we prepare for, as Garth has suggested, many businesses simply to disappear rather than reopen, economic alternatives such as UBI and transactional taxation will gain enormous traction as well.

As Brian Ripley quotes Planck, it may not be about changing minds as much as changing the people. But it will happen. Boomers, in retrospect, will be seen, with kindness, as having grown up in an extremely unusual and fortunate situation that prolonged the illusions of max-growth elitist capitalism.

But those after, the Gen X, Millennials etc. have lost the magical Boomer option of externalizing the costs of all such things and just carrying on. It’s all coming home to roost now. The “re-start” ahead will become bewilderingly different from the old status quo, in mere months.

We can all have a constructive, youthful and positive change-making spirit, whether we are 35, 75, 55 or 15. Our collective future needs this energy now.

Be part of the change.

#69 Not So New Guy on 05.10.20 at 3:39 pm

I agree, Garth that the 1%ers can in no way carry the tax world on their shoulders. What about the corporations though?

Some of these billion-dollar corporations pay zero tax. Many waste millions of person-hours on lawyers and accountants to do that. There is a lot of waste in the system for that alone. Then we have the tax department wasting millions of hours chasing them around

Here is my idea for discussion. I’m not saying I agree with it, just spicing up the debate. What if all corporations paid a flat revenue tax of something like 10% instead of a net profit tax like we have now? This would definitely level the playing field for companies who can’t afford the lawyers to zero out their tax so I believe small corps would better be able to compete. There would be no more cat and mouse hide-the-profit games every year like there is now

Maybe give the first 50K of revenue a tax-free break for all corporations…or not

#70 FreeBird on 05.10.20 at 3:42 pm

Free money is never free. UBI will come with a catch to those who take it…more of your freedom of how it and when it’s given plus the lack of dignity that comes with earning one’s way (if and as you can). City services could be very slow coming back and back logged for long time if cities/provinces behind due to lack of property taxes and same for utility cos. Will those jobs be filled or will too many choose to take a UBI if they qualify?
—————————-
Some math (correct me if you think it’s off):

In our city (north of T.O.)
total virus cases = 71 (4800 tested) 2 deaths (1 nursing home/1 on reserve)

Total job losses = 4700 (some % permanent)

Total population (2017) = 84,230

Virus cases = 0.84%
Jobs lost = 5.58%
~6x job loss to rate of infection

These are #s to date. Do math for each city, province and for Canada. Maybe incl lost sml independent biz revenue and or perm closures. Part of seeing critically and objectively not just through a filter of media fear. Ask who benefits from that fear.

#71 Lisa on 05.10.20 at 3:44 pm

If it meant we could eliminate every other form of welfare or benefit, UBI would be great. But that would never happen. Some people will simply still look for the other handouts such as food banks or free snowsuits for their kids. People with kids under 18 already get lots of free money through the CCB. Some people use it wisely while others do not. Instead of hating “rich” people with assets, why not try to learn how they accumulated those assets? I wish economics were a mandatory course in school instead of just pro-socialism stuff.

#72 Arcticfox on 05.10.20 at 3:44 pm

#40 Drill Baby Drill on 05.10.20 at 2:21 pm
For those who want UBI please take a basic math course first. There are not enough higher paid Canadians too support all of the layabouts wanting free dole.

I’m not sure where everyone is thinking taxes will have to overtly go up at all! UBI will be printed into existence and thus facilitated surreptitiously. The existing asset holders will ultimately still do ok as productive assists will levitate proportionately as currency base is inflated. The incumbents are very aware the masses are pissed. We’ve witness three Wall Street bailouts in the last 20 years(corporate socialism)with very little trickling down! Look around, populism is in the rise. History shows that when the proletariat/labour are left behind, civil decay is not far away. The more progressive billionaires are getting out ahead of this. Do you think they relish being ensconced in their Hampton villas with disgruntled masses out there and who will buy their end products. Of course, this will all end badly as there ultimately is no free ride, Thomas Moore’s idea is a dream. CV is the pin/catalyst accelerating this inevitable process….just too much debt. The here now and more coming deflation(see western demographics) will be met with a wall of printing. So deflation, stagflation, inflation, currency event. Hold productive and tangible assets.

#73 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 3:44 pm

@#52 Marco
“The rich can pay….”
++++

Bwahahaha.
You socialists are so naively amusing.
The rich are rich because they aren’t stoo-pid.
The rich will move to a country that charges less tax.
The rich will hire tax lawyers to move their money.
The rich will hide their money.
The rich will donate money to politicians to create tax loopholes for….the rich.
The rich will always be rich.
Get on the rich bus or be run over by it.
Or move back to that socialist “utopia” Venezuela where everyone starves together….equally.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/24/venezuela-hungry-food-insecure-un-world-food-program

Except, the chubby, overweight leaders, of course.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article239579358.html

#74 Monica on 05.10.20 at 3:50 pm

#45 ImGonnaBeSick replied to
#1 Hotels
With this comment…

—–

“As has always been the case… This isn’t the first disease, and in terms of some of the others you can, relatively mild for most you Numbskull”.

—————————
Now the thought of YOU staying in my hotel room the night before, really freaks me out. YUCK!

#75 wallflower on 05.10.20 at 3:52 pm

Very confused about CERB. (Not on it and also not employed.)
One of the qualifying criterion is having been laid off or fired. Melanie Woods is neither.
For the newer <$1001, one of the requirements is "do not currently have a job"

#76 wallflower on 05.10.20 at 3:55 pm

#1 Hotels on 05.10.20 at 1:01 pm
You have not done much travelling, have you?

Hotels in Europe are more and more automated. You reserve via app, get code, let yourself in via code, etc. You never see anyone.
And who uses things like tv remote controls without covering them with tissue? [people who are happy to pick up viruses, to which they are entitled]

#77 Sail Away on 05.10.20 at 3:55 pm

#49 Sold Out on 05.10.20 at 2:35 pm
“Where’s the money for UBI going to come from?”

From ending corporate welfare and raising their tax rate back to 1984 levels, of course. New taxes on jobs formerly performed by humans, but now automated, as well. Increased consumption taxes, too. This trickle down crapola has been thoroughly debunked.

—————–

Uh-huh. Sure. The single slight benefit to keeping a corp in Canada, and you suggest taxing more? My corp would immediately relocate tax home across the border, and I assume many, many others would do the same. Then you get all these offshore corps doing business in Canada.

Let’s just say there may be better ideas.

#78 Dolce Vita on 05.10.20 at 3:56 pm

“The Little Red Hen”

She left Canada after UBI.

After which, the other barnyard animals died from sloth.

————————————

#32 Roial1

THAT was good.

#79 Flop... on 05.10.20 at 3:58 pm

DELETED

#80 yorkville renter on 05.10.20 at 3:59 pm

Im not completely opposed to UBI, provided all the government infrastructure that supports every other incone entitlement is dismantled – i.e., no Welfare, no CPP, no OAS, and no EI – that includes the programs and the people that administer them.

I’d be curious to know what is saved when removing all of that

CPP is a defined-benefit pension plan into which working people and employers make contributions. Same with the EI insurance plan. GIS, OAS and the kiddie cheques, along with CERB and other payments come from general revenues. – Garth

#81 Flop... on 05.10.20 at 4:01 pm

What was wrong with that one..

M45BC

Any comment that I catch making a childish joke of a leader’s name will be deleted. We are above that. – Garth

#82 Flop... on 05.10.20 at 4:04 pm

DELETED

#83 Linda on 05.10.20 at 4:05 pm

#44 ‘Dr’ – UBI if implemented will not be less than CERB. That ship has sailed, no one who desires UBI will be satisfied if it isn’t at least as much as CERB. In fact, one commenter on this blog took the time to outline what they thought UBI should provide for a ‘basic’ income; the suggested starting amount was $50,000 per annum. Expectation for UBI isn’t going to be reasonable or pretty. Nor will UBI if implemented remain at the starting amount. Politicians have shown they are very willing to hand out monetary largesse to purchase votes & are not the least bit concerned about increasing the overall debt load as long as they get voted back in. Then comes the increase in taxes, direct or indirect, to service said increased debt burden.

#65 ‘Damn’ – thanks for the smile!

#84 Dave on 05.10.20 at 4:07 pm

In September will the government extend mortgage payments for another 3 to 6 month? Or is this impossible because the banks won’t allow it?

#85 Dolce Vita on 05.10.20 at 4:08 pm

#1 Hotels

Reads a suspicious adaptation of The Atlantic’s:

“I Just Flew. It Was Worse Than I Thought It Would Be.”

…at least that article had some humour amidst the pathos and was well written.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/is-flying-safe-coronavirus/611335/

#86 Stan Brooks on 05.10.20 at 4:08 pm

Exactly what I have been saying for quite some time.

Run with all your money as far away as you can, as quickly as you can, as it is going to be stolen one way or another. Inflation or expropriation as the credit driven madness quickly disintegrates.

Welcome to the Venezuela-zation of the North, but with much worse weather.

Think about it: what would be your incentive to be creative – to have your income taxed at confiscation rates in order to feed bunch of lazy parasites who procrastinate on the couch all day long?

To be a doctor and treat the parasites at the risk to your health while they do nothing of use to the society?

Institutionalization of theft and mediocrity, not that it was much different in the last two decades with the idiots in power, stupid greedy owners with provincial British empire mentality, corrupt media and morally bankrupt banking and real estate cartels but now it becomes official.

What we called ‘communism’ in the former ‘communist’ block was much more just and progressive than where we are going.

Enjoy,

#87 InsideTheSun on 05.10.20 at 4:09 pm

Two years ago, I lost all my savings trying to start a business. I had to abandon it and go back to my old job just to pay the bills. My monthly expenses are less than $2,000. If I had UBI at that time, I could have continued on until I met with some success and eventually contributed back more than I took out.

#88 bob's your.... on 05.10.20 at 4:10 pm

#75 wallflower

“ Hotels in Europe are more and more automated. You reserve via app, get code, let yourself in via code, etc. You never see anyone.
And who uses things like tv remote controls without covering them with tissue?”
——————
I doubt most folks will be doing a European vacation this year. I haven’t stayed at any completely automated Hotels in Canada.

Let me get your tissue strategy right. So you have to touch every surface in the hotel room with a tissue: light switches, a/c units, lamps, tables, coat hangers, faucets, toilet levers, door knobs, contents is the mini bar,…

Is that right?

#89 Ed McNeil on 05.10.20 at 4:12 pm

UBI sounds positive; so does socialism. The great problem is that it will not work. It will not work because people are by nature lazy. EI for example, created a generation of lazy rural Maritimers. Free time will not be spent advancing educational or cultural pursuits, but spent watching silly TV shows, drug and alcohol abuse, etc. This is the sad truth of government freebies.

#90 Dave on 05.10.20 at 4:12 pm

Is there a 20% drop in real estate pricing in Vancouver?

#91 Stan Brooks on 05.10.20 at 4:13 pm

#79 yorkville renter on 05.10.20 at 3:59 pm
Im not completely opposed to UBI, provided all the government infrastructure that supports every other incone entitlement is dismantled – i.e., no Welfare, no CPP, no OAS, and no EI – that includes the programs and the people that administer them.

I’d be curious to know what is saved when removing all of that

Exactly. This is what I was talking about.

Steal from all those leaving abroad by confiscating (directly or through inflation) their pensions – CPP and OAS, private pensions and give them nothing in return, in order to feed the lazy, never to work, parasites who happened to live in Canada. It is coming folks.

You have been warned.

#92 Ustabe on 05.10.20 at 4:13 pm

Man, some of you have a pretty grim view of your fellow citizens, neighbours, people.

I’m associated with folks who run small assisted living homes. The caregivers (who are remunerated well above industry) would work for free if their food/rent was taken care of. They are drawn to the work, it is rewarding to them to be of service to the elderly. Mostly.

All these poors who you would have ripping off the system, thereby depriving you of whatever, would, contrary to your current opinions, continue to work at jobs they found enjoyable.

Its up to you rich folks who provide the jobs to make them enjoyable. No reason at all that work can not be both fun for the employee and profitable for the employer.

Also some of you really need to discern the differences between democratic socialism and communism. Conflating the two simply exposes your ignorance and negates anything you have to say.

#93 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 4:18 pm

79 Yorkville – CPP should remain in something very
close to its present form as it is administered separately and is really just forced savings for workers.

EI could be overhauled. Historically it has been abused in that it became part of a person’s planned income for those who would get seasonal layoffs, while the steady worker received no benefit despite contributing. Some form of optional program could exist, with premiums based on wage, a chosen waiting period (equivalent to a deductible), a maximum policy coverage and a risk profile for the field of work or the individual’s history.

#94 crowdedelevators on 05.10.20 at 4:21 pm

#1 Hotels
——————-
Where’s my tent? Hope the National Parks open up.

#95 BrianT on 05.10.20 at 4:21 pm

DELETED

#96 Russ on 05.10.20 at 4:22 pm

In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: “A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

Where do you think Canada is today? I’d say from apathy to dependence.

#97 Figure it Out on 05.10.20 at 4:24 pm

“For those who want UBI please take a basic math course first. There are not enough higher paid Canadians too support all of the layabouts wanting free dole.”

You gots to figure out some trickle-up economics, son.

What to the people in the story spend their new government money on? Rent, food, dirt bikes, local small businesses, fuel, utilities — all provided by businesses owned by rich people.

This money may go to poor and lower-middle households, but it won’t stick to them. The worst that could happen, from the 1%’s point of view, is they pay off their credit cards and don’t rack them up again. But… LOL to that, right?

#98 Lost...but not leased on 05.10.20 at 4:24 pm

The end game is obvious:

Stick a long pointy thing in you arm…

then another pointy thing in your a_ _

#99 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 4:25 pm

28 stone – and how does the underground economy survive? On cash!

No more cash stone. We’ll be cashless. I got my bank statement. I usually have some small withdrawals. None last month. My barber and coffee shop take cash
but the govt will use covid to ban it.

Tap, tap……

#100 Zed on 05.10.20 at 4:26 pm

Garth,

Are you saying that i should not submit a counter offer on a house tomorrow? Should i keep my cash, continue renting and keep the money invested?

#101 not 1st on 05.10.20 at 4:32 pm

Thanks Melanie, smart use of public funds.

Now I will collect mine and give them to my accountant to totally insulate my finances from the govt and brainless masses.

I aint paying for this.

#102 Calgary retiree on 05.10.20 at 4:33 pm

“GIS is for poor people too old to work. No comparison to a universal UBI for fully-employable folks. – Garth”
———————————————————-
“Old” is not the only reason why some people are poor. Disabilities, location, bad economy, conservatism, are but a few reasons.

UBI would pull everybody above the poverty level. It could, for starters eliminate welfare, employment insurance and GIS. Unlike corporate welfare, UBI would require a means test and will put money immediately back into the economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

GIS is for old people. Read the context. – Garth

#103 Flop... on 05.10.20 at 4:36 pm

DELETED. You know his name. Use it. – Garth

#104 FreeBird on 05.10.20 at 4:42 pm

Great short biographic on the Spanish Flu (only 29min so glass of wine or a beer)

https://youtu.be/K6R_eFCcVfM

#105 Mike in Airdrie on 05.10.20 at 4:51 pm

My brother made an interesting point the other day. He said he stopped reading your blog because it was always negative. While I don’t disagree with the points you make (in fact they are very thought provoking), I’m starting to wonder how useful it is.

What the hell does “hide your stash” actually mean?

Ask your brother. He’s the smart one. – Garth

#106 Toronto_CA on 05.10.20 at 4:52 pm

EI in Canada needs a MAJOR overhaul.

If there is a takeaway from the virus and a move to more of a UBI; EI should be the first sacred cow to go. It makes no sense, is completely unfair, and contrary to what Garth said above (and contrary to CPP), the EI we pay has gone into general government revenues rather than being counted as separate money:

“A significant part of the federal fiscal surplus of the Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin years came from the EI system. Premiums were reduced much less than falling expenditures – producing, from 1994 onwards, EI surpluses of several billion dollars per year, which were added to general government revenue.[10] The cumulative EI surplus stood at $57 billion at 31 March 2008,[11] nearly four times the amount needed to cover the extra costs paid during a recession.[12] This drew criticism from Opposition parties and from business and labour groups, and has remained a recurring issue of the public debate. The Conservative Party,[13] chose not to recognize those EI surpluses after being elected in 2006. Instead, the Conservative government cancelled the EI surpluses entirely in 2010, and required EI contributors to make up the 2009, 2010 and 2011 annual deficits by increasing EI premiums. On 11 December 2008, the Supreme Court of Canada rejected a court challenge launched against the federal government by two Quebec unions, who argued that EI funds had been misappropriated by the government.”

#107 Marco on 05.10.20 at 4:53 pm

How many Canadian Einsteins, Van Goghs, Teslas will emerge in society so rich with talent and merit if UBI is implemented and Canadians can freely develop their talents. When connections will not be favored over education, when tribal economy will not take care of their own, when Canadian born will be able to become doctors (not just immigrants kids, right?)

#108 R on 05.10.20 at 4:53 pm

Thank You for your blog. Sanity in a storm of bias fake opinions and news. Do you foresee a capping of the contributions and /or cap of the amount tax free in the TFSA ?

#109 FreeBird on 05.10.20 at 4:56 pm

#95 Russ on 05.10.20 at 4:22 pm

Where do you think Canada is today? I’d say from apathy to dependence.
——————-
Thx for ref to Alexander Tyler. Agreed. For what it’s worth I’ve been saying signs of apathy/complacency came far too soon and easy after complicity. Having longer LCBO hrs help to placate many (govt/powers aren’t so stupid they don’t that.) Dependence is a given now for too many but how many willingly? Social conditioning happens whether planned or not. The more dependent the more complicit…for a while.

#110 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 4:58 pm

#169 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 11:22 am sez:
“#138 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 7:42 am
——-

Sure Bytor, they both work forlarge government utility connected provincial monopolies. One is a Tradesman now paper pusher that satisfies regulation requirements and schedules maintenance work. The other is an “operator”. Both are College educated. The pay is up and down based on how much time and a half, double time, and triple time they get, but any time I’ve looked them up on the sunshine list the lowest they’ve made is 137k. Great years they both do over 150k they say.

Last time I had them over for beers, I totally forgot to administer the IQ tests, but they most assuredly are not as smart as you. Just regular dudes.

Is this a shocker or something?

Get this into you. I know another guy, works in the same sphere, but his job is running bulldozers and chain saws out in the bush all over the province . High school education, 10 years from retirement. Best year was 140k. Guy is a total redneck, but he sure knows how to milk the system. Said he paid for his house with OT/DT/TT alone.

You’re welcome.”
————————————————-
So predictionable. Exactly where I knew you were going. Highly qualified trades guys working for ultilities that

#111 yvr_lurker on 05.10.20 at 5:01 pm

Garth has just thrown out a bone (the UBI comment) for all of the blog-dogs to chew over and start foaming at the mouth. He seems to do this type of thing to rally the troops every week or so (tax on all sales of residential real estate, 50% capital gains increase, etc..). No need to jump into the mosh pit with bare teeth. Unless Jagdeep is at the helm, UBI ain’t happening here even with the Liberals. Just chill, enjoy the sun, and everyone remember to phone their mother if they still have one.

Do you expect the government to just turn the CERB off? BTW this blog has never suggested there would be a tax on all residential sales. Capital gains? Yes. – Garth

#112 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 5:03 pm

#169 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 11:22 am sez:
“#138 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 7:42 am
——-

Sure Bytor, they both work forlarge government utility connected provincial monopolies. One is a Tradesman now paper pusher that satisfies regulation requirements and schedules maintenance work. The other is an “operator”. Both are College educated. The pay is up and down based on how much time and a half, double time, and triple time they get, but any time I’ve looked them up on the sunshine list the lowest they’ve made is 137k. Great years they both do over 150k they say.

Last time I had them over for beers, I totally forgot to administer the IQ tests, but they most assuredly are not as smart as you. Just regular dudes.

Is this a shocker or something?

Get this into you. I know another guy, works in the same sphere, but his job is running bulldozers and chain saws out in the bush all over the province . High school education, 10 years from retirement. Best year was 140k. Guy is a total redneck, but he sure knows how to milk the system. Said he paid for his house with OT/DT/TT alone.

You’re welcome.”
————————————————-
So predictable. Exactly where I knew you were going. Highly qualified trades guys with lots of OT working for utilities that you are misrepresenting as “lazy gov’t paper pushers”. A Supervisor of highly qualified tradesmen and an actual highly qualified tradesman (water or sewage?).

I agree with your broader point, but don’t push it, as I am one of those guys.

#113 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 5:07 pm

@#102 Floppie

“Deleted”
++++

Its a shame we dont have a Prime Minister named
Joe Hockey… from North Sidney………. Cape Breton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hockey

#114 GrumpyPanda on 05.10.20 at 5:11 pm

Garth, please tell me the woman’s story is fake news.

#115 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 5:12 pm

@#106 Marco
“How many Canadian Einsteins, Van Goghs, Teslas will emerge in society so rich with talent and merit if UBI is implemented …..”
+++++

Bwahahahaha!
My God! Stop it! You’re killing me!
Let’s see, in a high tax environment…..
They will leave ( Elon Musk-Tesla).
They will burn their paintings ( Tony Onley – Artist)
They will receive generous grants and tenures in countries with lower taxes and more prestigious Universities ( Hmmmm, Harvard or Dalhousie….)

Give your socialist head a shake ….or move back to Cuba….that bastion of doctors and dungeons….depending on which ass you choose to kiss.

#116 not 1st on 05.10.20 at 5:13 pm

Garth, have you noticed the MSM now going to bat for Trudeau. Oh he wont call an election.

There are even articles and news reports saying we can do all this and not even raise taxes.

#117 HH on 05.10.20 at 5:13 pm

I know this will be a very unfair distribution where, as usual, I and many others won’t benefit at all. Unless everybody gets it I won’t be in favor of it. I’m sick of paying for everyone else.

#118 Macduff on 05.10.20 at 5:19 pm

2 years from retirement, I will leave Canada for good to be an expat, nonresident, in a warmer country. Free enterprise in my mind is key to improving the lot of people, but apparently not many agree. Won’t be missing much when I’m gone and I will no longer be contributing $$ to this scheme by way of taxes.

Enjoy the exit tax. – Garth

#119 Ronaldo on 05.10.20 at 5:20 pm

Millennials in the workforce. Hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXWNChoIluo

#120 Drinking on 05.10.20 at 5:25 pm

#50 Robert B

You are on to something. I am not sure if many of aware of this but London has a city within itself. I believe it is the City of London (the banking structure) like Bay Street. They do not answer to anyone, have there own so called elected officials, no questions asked by the Parliament and have set up huge off shore banks anything to do with Old Britain domain such as the British Virgin Isles etc. There are some very good documentaries on this if one is interested enough to search it out.

My question is? How much of this is going on in Canada especially since we are part of the Commonwealth? We know a few years back it was heavily reported on but now “crickets”!

#121 The TRUMP Pandemic/Depression on 05.10.20 at 5:25 pm

Not a single country would go this UBI route alone… May go forward if others would too though… More likely, as the whole wide world is in huge debt, that a debt-relief re-set would come about… Country finances and private finances re-set by the same amounts,,, equally… Inflationary,,, maybe,,, but isn’t that what everyone is striving for today…

#122 Interesting comments on 05.10.20 at 5:26 pm

To number 43
Canada does not have any gold reserves sold them off years ago.
Very interesting comments on universal income.
Forgive me we have 2 million on welfare. So what’s the difference?

The tougher it is to get free money the harder you will work look no further than UNited States.

It’s simple
Make everyone join the army pay them to go defend our country give them free education. Then that’s it your on your own.

Not sure where to hide the money, I think I will have to lump it and pay more taxes. My incentive I will work harder make more money, so be it the government takes 54 or more percent I still keep the balance. Still more than I had if I did not work.
Have a great weekend
Thanks for the blog Garth always makes me think.

#123 Flop... on 05.10.20 at 5:26 pm

#112 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 5:07pm
@#102 Floppie

“Deleted”
++++

/////////////////////

Can’t talk now Crowdie.

Just started to serve a self imposed two week suspension in the sin bin for a blog violation.

Was already on probation for my Elizabeth May, Theresa Tam hotdog eating contest joke…

M45BC

#124 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 5:28 pm

Marco.
Let me give you an example of the Canadian system of fairness and fiscal stupidity.

A friend of mine who’s son always excelled academically, decided to become a doctor.
His marks were good enough to get a govt grant that allowed them to pay for a large portion of his tuition PROVIDED he work as a doctor in a rural part of the province for several years after graduating.
No probs. all good…until he graduated.
Too many doctors and they had no room for him in the billing system.
His tuition was wiped clean by the province.
He check around, no other provinces hiring at that time.
So he decided to “specialize”.
Heart surgeon.
Went to Magill for another four years.
Had a job lined up out west with another province that was paying the majority of his school tuition as long as his marks stayed above a certain level..
Graduated.
Job no longer available. Cut backs.
Sorry …but again, Tuition wiped off the books.
He applied in the States.
Several universities and hospitals fell over themselves in a bidding war to get him.
900k US$ salary, his own lab, assistants, subsidized apartment, lower taxes, on and on and on.
He laughs at his Canadian classmates who are still working in Canada.

Now tell me…truthfully…..
Do you REALLY think the “best and brightest” will stick around earning a lower wage , taxed at a higher rate, to pay for their pot smoking neighbor to have endless parties on weekdays at 2am ….knowing that their taxes are paying for that?

Give your fricken head a shake.

#125 Pass The Pogey on 05.10.20 at 5:31 pm

Hmmmm…..

More Cerb snacks again tonight kids

#126 JP on 05.10.20 at 5:33 pm

#13 Bob : “ And if you raise my taxes above 50% marginal tax bracket, I will work less.”

Overseas investor visa. Canada taxes based on residency – migrate wealth to a more tax friendly, non UBI, locale. If funds dry up, return and declare, “I’m baaack. Now where’s my UBI.”

#127 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.10.20 at 5:37 pm

#93 crowdedelevators on 05.10.20 at 4:21 pm
#1 Hotels
——————-
Where’s my tent? Hope the National Parks open up.
————
Watch out for ticks.
Lyme disease is worse than Corona.

#128 Lee on 05.10.20 at 5:39 pm

#117,

Most people leave having only a principal residence and rrsps which are both exempt from the tax and they have stocks in unregistered accounts which usually attract very little capital gain. Don’t know if tfsas are exempt but they probably are. So there is not much for most to worry about in this regard when leaving. Going to happen a lot.

#129 Yukon Elvis on 05.10.20 at 5:43 pm

#102 Flop… on 05.10.20 at 4:36
……………………………….

I use his name in vain too. Every chance I get.

#130 Lee on 05.10.20 at 5:45 pm

I don’t see how ubi won’t eventually result in $20 tomatoes and $10 donuts thereby eventually just putting everyone on ubi back where they started. If I run a grocery store in a poor area suddenly plush with cash because of ubi, my prices are going up. I generally like the idea of ubi but then I consider the above.

#131 MF on 05.10.20 at 5:46 pm

#10 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 1:17 pm

“I said I couldnt wait for a massive earthquake , said nothing about people dying.”

“Essentially opining about the inept govt response to a slow motion “emergency” like Covid 1984”

-Fine. So essentially you are rooting for a massive natural disaster to strike 1)

And,

2) as people’s lives are disrupted, you are hoping you can yell “I told you so!” IF the response is not 100%?

And, in the same breath you smiled gleefully at the prospect of people being laid off.

Why?

If you don’t see any problems with that logic, then there is nothing I can tell you.

—————————————————————–

“But you keep putting words in my mouth and splitting hairs in that touchy feely pc world of yours..”

-I don’t live in a “touchy feely world”..i live in the real world, where the BS us vs them mentality you seem to be infected with doest not exist.

We’ve gone over this many times. Your arguments are not really arguments, but they are just anecdotal opinions.

Listen, I don’t disagree with everything you say, but I would cut down on the dogma, and try to see the other side every once in a while.

MF

#132 Stone on 05.10.20 at 5:46 pm

#98 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 4:25 pm
28 stone – and how does the underground economy survive? On cash!

No more cash stone. We’ll be cashless. I got my bank statement. I usually have some small withdrawals. None last month. My barber and coffee shop take cash
but the govt will use covid to ban it.

Tap, tap……

———

I’m all for the tap tap. We’ll see whether the gouvernment actually implements that change. Would love to see the underground economy implode on itself.

For myself, I haven’t used cash since…damn…I can’t remember.

#133 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.10.20 at 5:47 pm

#117 Macduff on 05.10.20 at 5:19 pm
2 years from retirement, I will leave Canada for good to be an expat, nonresident, in a warmer country. Free enterprise in my mind is key to improving the lot of people, but apparently not many agree. Won’t be missing much when I’m gone and I will no longer be contributing $$ to this scheme by way of taxes.

Enjoy the exit tax. – Garth
————–
Yeah, and make sure you self isolate for 14 days when you return.

#134 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 5:49 pm

#111 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 5:03 pm
#169 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 11:22 am sez:
“#138 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 7:42 am
——-

Sure Bytor, they both work forlarge government utility connected provincial monopolies. One is a Tradesman now paper pusher that satisfies regulation requirements and schedules maintenance work. The other is an “operator”. Both are College educated. The pay is up and down based on how much time and a half, double time, and triple time they get, but any time I’ve looked them up on the sunshine list the lowest they’ve made is 137k. Great years they both do over 150k they say.

Last time I had them over for beers, I totally forgot to administer the IQ tests, but they most assuredly are not as smart as you. Just regular dudes.

Is this a shocker or something?

Get this into you. I know another guy, works in the same sphere, but his job is running bulldozers and chain saws out in the bush all over the province . High school education, 10 years from retirement. Best year was 140k. Guy is a total redneck, but he sure knows how to milk the system. Said he paid for his house with OT/DT/TT alone.

You’re welcome.”
————————————————-

So predictable. Exactly where I knew you were going. Highly qualified trades guys with lots of OT working for utilities that you are misrepresenting as “lazy gov’t paper pushers”. A Supervisor of highly qualified tradesmen and an actual highly qualified tradesman (water or sewage?).

I agree with your broader point, but don’t push it, as I am one of those guys.
— ———

Where did I say these guys worked for the government as tradesmen? Better try reading that again a bit slower.

Oh, and I’ll push it as far as I like.

#135 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.10.20 at 5:50 pm

#117 Macduff on 05.10.20 at 5:19 pm
2 years from retirement, I will leave Canada for good to be an expat, nonresident, in a warmer country. Free enterprise in my mind is key to improving the lot of people, but apparently not many agree. Won’t be missing much when I’m gone and I will no longer be contributing $$ to this scheme by way of taxes.

Enjoy the exit tax. – Garth
————–
And take Fartz with you.

#136 Stone on 05.10.20 at 5:50 pm

#117 Macduff on 05.10.20 at 5:19 pm
2 years from retirement, I will leave Canada for good to be an expat, nonresident, in a warmer country. Free enterprise in my mind is key to improving the lot of people, but apparently not many agree. Won’t be missing much when I’m gone and I will no longer be contributing $$ to this scheme by way of taxes.

Enjoy the exit tax. – Garth

———

Unless you move to a country without a tax treaty with Canada. Plenty still exist.

Nope. Still taxed. – Garth

#137 MF on 05.10.20 at 5:50 pm

Screw the wealthy elites! We are for the little guy! Bring on the UBI!!

Oh wait,

I mean..

Screw the masses!!! This UBI is nonesense! We are for the wealthy asset holding elites!

I can’t tell anymore. Are we against the wealthy elites or for them today? Someone please flip the coin and let me know.

MF

#138 MF on 05.10.20 at 5:53 pm

#118 Ronaldo on 05.10.20 at 5:20 pm

Lol the youtube video you posted a few days ago was hilarious. This one’s good too.

Keep em’ coming.

MF

#139 MF on 05.10.20 at 5:55 pm

#110 yvr_lurker on 05.10.20 at 5:01 pm

I agree with this.

UBI? Not happening.

MF

#140 Ken on 05.10.20 at 5:57 pm

Buying dirtbikes? Wow… we all know she is just kicking her over-extended can down the road but good lord. I suppose the various children’s ministries are unable to have ‘fiscally irresponsible’ as a qualification for unfit parent, otherwise, judging by the stats, a third of all kids would be in government care (kinda how like their parents are now).

Time to go full tilt on tax minimization strategies.

#141 JohnAB on 05.10.20 at 6:03 pm

DELETED

#142 Sask to AB on 05.10.20 at 6:14 pm

What a mess we are in!

Also just heard Army & Navy stores are going to close. That is so sad…… I remember going there as a child in Saskatoon, great lunch counter, could find really good clothes cheap. In Calgary, the A&N had the BEST camping supplies…… Going to miss them.

#143 Ballingsford on 05.10.20 at 6:16 pm

Good job Garth! You’ve brought out the millenial numbskulls today!

The lost generation!

#144 Doug t on 05.10.20 at 6:20 pm

GO DIRECTLY TO COMMUNISM DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT COLLECT $200 DOLLARS

#145 Blessed_Canadian_Millenial on 05.10.20 at 6:25 pm

Proponents of UBI only seem to look at one side of the equation: that the money will be going back to the local economy.

But what about the other side of the equation? The more you “tax the rich” the more likely they will pack their bags and move somewhere where the tax burden is lower.

Who, then, will pay for this increase?

Linda said it right. This system will collapse if we are not careful. You cannot tax the rich and spend your way to prosperity.

The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.

#146 not 1st on 05.10.20 at 6:27 pm

Get your mouth filled with gold grillz and then walk across the US border and claim asylum.

Its the only way out of Trudeaus gulag.

#147 Entrepreneur on 05.10.20 at 6:38 pm

That was weird, Mark Carney warning people of too much debt and could go broke. Really, maybe a little late in the warning section, like a decade.

When interest rates kept low for so long what would one expect, piling on more debt (that carrot in front.) And no underground money would come from this?!?

UBI, I don’t like it, defeats the purpose of our existence, and there will be more control from the leaders (they are the string pullers and we dance to their tune no mater how we oppose it.)

Is it safe to say that our leaders are globalists and the people within borders are nationalists? Noticed on the news every time a premier goes to Ottawa after getting elected they tone down their fight for the people. Like some bloggers said they are all the same, so true.

Also notice this AI is in favour with the leaders but when it comes to the people another story, what data, what jobs, etc.

Are we a nation or are we now called globalist?

#148 fishman on 05.10.20 at 6:40 pm

I liked the Millenial Realists slogan “Be part of the change or be Run over by it” #9 a lot better than “,Youthful, Positive, Change making Spirit :forward for our Collective Future” #67. The former gives me choice & time. Allocating resources nimbly & judiciously. Jumping out of the way of the Millenial steamroller so to speak.The latter, incentivizes me to buy black PVC pipe, end caps & cosmoline.

#149 Goober on 05.10.20 at 6:47 pm

To all blog dogs (and especially Bytor the Snow Dog, To the Cauliflower guy, crowdedelevatorfartz and Sold Out from yesterday’s discussions about Granny Gert getting COVID19 from cauliflower)

These two very detailed and very well researched articles were passed along to me today and bear passing along to everyone here. They primarily deal with analysis of WuFlu infection and transmission methods. It seems to be apparent through these articles that the primary method of infection is airborne transmission. Getting this virus through indirect infection through contaminated surfaces (known as “fomites”), while possible, does not seem to be the main way to catch the beerbug. I’m not downplaying surface disinfection efforts, but after reading these two articles, I’m definitely wearing a mask when out and about.

The Risks – Know Them – Avoid Them
COVID-19 Superspreader Events in 28 Countries: Critical Patterns and Lessons

#150 James on 05.10.20 at 6:49 pm

Financing UBI will be VERY easy.

EI, GIS, CPP, and OAS payments will be completely eliminated along with all other programs.

EVERYONE will get UBI, BUT anyone who makes more than what UBI provides will see their “free money” clawed back.

Take the CPP for example. CPPIB assets ($420.4 Billion as of Dec. 31, 2019) will be folded into the government coffers and a FRACTION of that amount will be used to pay out UBI.

Why a small fraction?

Because the UBI will be CLAWED BACK from everyone who dares to earn a living.

Retired and Living on investments or a pension?

No UBI for you…and no CPP, no OAS, no GIS.

All government payouts will be replaced by the UBI, which will in turn be clawed back for the VAST majority of recipients.

That is of course, if people allow it to happen.

What say you, Mr. Turner? Is it finally time to sound the alarm?

#151 TomMac on 05.10.20 at 6:51 pm

If you are hard working, driven, innovative and responsible you will pay, pay, pay. Canada is becoming a socialist bastion. Problem is, the people noted above will leave. Then what?

#152 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 6:58 pm

An indictment of our society, and affirmation we’re a nation of financial illiterates? You bet.

—-

Do you have any proof that Canadians, as a nation were less financially illiterate prior the the beginning of the globalization?

#153 45north on 05.10.20 at 7:01 pm

do we have all the facts

If total GOC revenues decline by 15% in 2020 the shortfall will have to be borrowed. Am I alone in thinking that the timing for any consideration of a guaranteed annual income is just a bit off?

no

#154 Yukon Elvis on 05.10.20 at 7:03 pm

DELETED

#155 Nonplused on 05.10.20 at 7:05 pm

Universal basic income, or UBI, despite the soothingly intellectual sounding name, is the worst idea ever spouted by someone claiming to be an economist. But it is reasonable to expect it from a politician since they routinely go back on their word once elected anyway.

The effects UBI will have on the economy are similar to the effects passing “go” has on the game of monopoly. It will drive hyperinflation and at the end of the game everyone will be bankrupt. Here’s how:

The first thing UBI will do is destroy the relationship between labor and income, especially at the lower income levels. How on earth is McDonald’s going to get people to come work for them for $15/hour if they are already getting that from UBI? Why bother working? So the wage McDonald’s will have to pay to induce people to work will go up. If there is any clawback of UBI through taxes, by a lot. Expect to see the minimum wage employers will have to pay to rise to about $30/hour, more or less. People will need some incentive to turn off the Xbox and get off the couch.

Of course jacking wages at the bottom that much will cause all wages to rise as the invisible hand tries to keep relative prices meaningful. The average mechanic that now makes $30/hour is going to expect $45. Since all labor is paid for out of the price of the goods and services produced, the cost of everything not imported will spiral higher, negating most of the intended benefit of the UBI in the first place.

There will also be a simple monetary affect that dropping $24,000 a year on every adult in the country will have (the “pass go” affect). That money will be spent, and the result will be highly inflationary. The demand for kid’s dirt-bikes will be at an all time high. Monopoly style inflation can be the only result as the money becomes detached from any productivity used to create value.

At first the effects will seem beneficial as Xbox, dirt-bike, iPhone, and car sales all take off. But eventually people will start to notice that price increases are accelerating. At that point a mad dash to buy anything and everything available will begin, and hyperinflation will result. Properties that traded for $180 at the beginning of the game will command several times that in subsequent trading. The dollar will collapse as the Chinese dirt-bike manufacturers come to realize that the Canadian dollar is essentially no longer scarce or backed by anything.

Folks, the dollar as we now know it is essentially an accounting system. It isn’t worth anything intrinsically. There exists in the system a careful relationship between labor, capital, interest rates, and all other things whereby the dollar is used to compare the relative value of things. A car is worth $30,000 and a house $500,000 because of the relative scarcity of each, which is determined largely by the labor and materials needed to build each. If you double the amount of money in circulation, after some adjustment the car costs $60,000 and the house $1,000,000. You end up right where you started, only if you saved any money it now has half the purchasing power, so it is best to spend it as fast as you can even if that was not your intent. You can’t make the 2×4 bigger by making the inch smaller.

This thing that the government has done by essentially paying people not to work (thus detaching the dollar from productivity) is already going to be hugely inflationary even if it ends soon, which it won’t. 50% of the voters are below average intelligence, so they aren’t going to give up on their newfound free money anytime soon. “If they (the government) can do it once, they can always do it” they will think. It’ll be like trying to tell a 6 year old they can’t have ice-cream anymore because they are getting too fat, only that six year old can vote. So unfortunately the cat is already out of the bag.

We still have some time to rebalance our portfolios because this won’t happen all at once. Basically, you want to go long the means of production and scarcity. There will be a period of deflation as the pandemic continues, but once that passes and the CERB morphs into UBI, hyperinflation will follow. It’ll start slowly, and then happen all at once. Things to own are companies that have pricing power, agriculture, well entrenched customer bases, and yes even gold.

#156 Nonplused on 05.10.20 at 7:13 pm

#20 dlt inc

Maths are hard for some peoples.

#157 James on 05.10.20 at 7:14 pm

BTW this blog has never suggested there would be a tax on all residential sales. Capital gains? Yes. – Garth

I very much disagree and have mentioned this before.

AS I said before, tracking residential real estate capital gains would be a nightmare for a whole host of reasons.

And what about capital losses due to the likely drop in real estate prices due to this virus and all that entails?

Nope, a residential real estate capital gains tax would be far too hard to manage.

Expect a “sales tax” on all sales instead…whether the sale nets a gain or a loss.

That was not the context. However a cap tax on RE gains would be simple to execute. – Garth

#158 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.10.20 at 7:15 pm

#123
interesting story.
But what happened to your friend’s son, who always excelled academically.

#159 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 7:17 pm

Enjoy the exit tax. – Garth

Romanian Communist dictator Ceausescu, who was executed, demanded from people, who left the country to pay back the cost of their education, before they go.

How is the principal idea of Canadian exit tax different from Ceausescu’s?

#160 Wrk.dover on 05.10.20 at 7:21 pm

#97 Figure it Out on 05.10.20 at 4:24 pm
“For those who want UBI please take a basic math course first. There are not enough higher paid Canadians too support all of the layabouts wanting free dole.”

You gots to figure out some trickle-up economics, son.

What to the people in the story spend their new government money on? Rent, food, dirt bikes, local small businesses, fuel, utilities — all provided by businesses owned by rich people.

This money may go to poor and lower-middle households, but it won’t stick to them. The worst that could happen, from the 1%’s point of view, is they pay off their credit cards and don’t rack them up again. But… LOL to that, right?

—————————————–

Bottom line. Get UBI, not eligible for any credit card other than the prepaid UBI card.

That will float.

#161 Nonplused on 05.10.20 at 7:21 pm

#53 Marco on 05.10.20 at 2:49 pm
The rich can pay. It is a truth, absolute truth and nothing but a truth.

———————–

No, they can’t. They don’t have any money. They have assets. Let’s take our most famous billionaire, Bill Gates, and try and tax his “wealth”. He doesn’t have any money, he only has shares in Microsoft. So when the tax bill comes, he will have to sell. To whom? What will that do to the price of Microsoft shares? And what about all the other Microsoft shareholders who must also sell?

2 points to understand: Most wealth is notional, and the wealthy already pay taxes on their income and capital gains.

#162 James on 05.10.20 at 7:24 pm

#155 Nonplused on 05.10.20 at 7:05 pm

Universal basic income, or UBI, despite the soothingly intellectual sounding name, is the worst idea ever spouted by someone claiming to be an economist.

————-

EVERYONE reading this blog should read post #155 above and reread it until it is clearly understood.

It is 100% correct and needs to be clearly understood by all Canadians. It’s very important to our futures.

Well said!

#163 Anthony on 05.10.20 at 7:25 pm

#91-Ustabe

Excellent post, particularly about conflating Democratic Socialism with Communism. Please remember there are a slew of posters here who consider themselves quite accomplished, intelligent, witty and moneyed. In reality, they come off bitter, resentful, angry, and usually people who brag about money are overstating the case.

Also you could never get them to admit that the real accomplishments of man came without a monetary motive. People want to be creative and productive members of society and if you gave them a bit of breathing room financially they’d be better able to put their talents to use and be happier doing it.

As for the blog dogs bemoaning the fact that UBI would lead to most people lazily taking the dole, my father used to say “the one who does it thinks everyone does it.”

#164 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 7:29 pm

#151 TomMac on 05.10.20 at 6:51 pm

If you are hard working, driven, innovative and responsible you will pay, pay, pay. Canada is becoming a socialist bastion. Problem is, the people noted above will leave. Then what?
——— –

Yep, under Trudeau type leaders. Problem is, the more free cash he hands out, the higher his popularity ratings get. Reading that result should point out where the problem actually lies – Canadians themselves.

If the wealthy start bailing like they did out of France, I expect we would do what France had to do – rescind the tax. France raised taxes on the rich, and revenues started going down.

France then cranked taxes on energy and regular working plebs, and they got the yellow vests storming the streets and shutting everything down. Again, they rescinded the taxes (some). No easy revenue generation from taxing the middle class either.

What’s next? Watch some of these deadbeat countries in the EU for a hint.

#165 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 7:30 pm

@#131 MF
“Listen, I don’t disagree with everything you say…..
++++

Which part?
Most govt workers are untouchable, unthinking sloths?

Govt employee pensions should NOT be guaranteed by private sector taxpayers?

People are losing their marbles during Covid1984 isolation and this Fall will be even worse?

The term “hero” has been massively overused and cheapened?

Elevator rides with me would be a time of mystical enlightenment?

Increasing Taxes on alcohol goes against all that is sacred and just?

Millennial should be told,” Crappy job ! Do it again” at least once a month?

Floppie should run for Prime Minister of Canada with me as Minister of Politically Correct Rainbow T-shirt Distribution?

i could go on but my beer is empty…

#166 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 7:34 pm

82 Linda – sorry, not my UBI…..

We basically have UBI for seniors in the form of OAS/GIS. I think this maxes about $1500/mo, with many of these people with minimal ability to augment that (Hey theyre old!)

So Dr V’s UBI would be lower as it has the expectation of capable people working to some degree.

if you recall, a couple in Ontario each making $40k/pa with 3 kids already pays no net tax. That’s probably a good benchmark to start from.

My UBI is not “social justice” but rather an economic alternative.

101 Calgary – UBI by definition is universal and is not means tested. You, me and Jimmy Pattison will all get it.

I knew this topic would be fun……

#167 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 7:34 pm

@#152 Akashic Globalist
“Do you have any proof that Canadians, as a nation were less financially illiterate prior the the beginning of the globalization?”
++++
Sure.
The more billions our fearless minority govt. dictator hands out at presser scrums each day gets him higher in the polls….. he’s our “hero”.

#168 mountain on 05.10.20 at 7:36 pm

tax implications of UBI:
A couple of years ago Dr Forget did the math on $1,500/m UBI for all adult Canadians (less for kids). Budget balanced out with flat 50% tax on all income for all, after counting savings from direct cuts to bureaucracy and programmes like GIS, OAS, etc.
Flat rate 50% is progressive because tax on first $36,000 income balances $18k UBI, net $0.
A couple making $100k pays $50k tax-$36k UBI=$14k net tax, 14%.
A couple making $500k pays $250k-$36k=$214, 43%.
That was pre-coronavirus debt, so all bets are off on what it would take now.

#169 Mike Stellants on 05.10.20 at 7:37 pm

I don’t think this would work. For anyone who likes data have a read here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/annual-financial-report/2019/report.html

Here’s some key data from 2019 for Govt of Canada (ANNUAL)

Total Revenue: $332B
– Personal Tax: $163B
– Corporate Tax: $50B
– GST: $38B

Expenditures – $346B
– Elderly Benefits: $53B
– EI: $19B
– Childrens Benefits: $34B
– Transfer Payments: $52B

Now there’s about 35M ppl in Canada and 7M under 18 so that leaves about 28M ppl who are of legal age. Giving each of them $2000/month would cost $56B/month or about $672B/year. Even if you replaced all the current entitlement programs (Welfare, EI, CPP, etc) this amount is basically double our current annual spending.

Finally I wouldn’t support this if you cut out those who make > $90k yr. Why? You shouldn’t incentive people to be lazy and unsuccessful. A flat UBI would be fair to everyone and encourage people equally to get of their ass and improve their situation.

Now if you gave everyone $500/month that would be $140B or about half our spending. This might be more realistic. Thoughts?

#170 Figure it Out on 05.10.20 at 7:40 pm

‘But what about the other side of the equation? The more you “tax the rich” the more likely they will pack their bags and move somewhere where the tax burden is lower.’

The best place to look for evidence of this theory is the United States. State tax rates vary considerably, people can move freely from one state to another, and they all speak the same two languages.

I’ll let you do your own research, but suffice to say there’s still plenty of room in Montana.

#171 Anthony on 05.10.20 at 7:41 pm

#145-Blessed

“The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.”

Who still believes this trickle down nonsense?

#172 The Raven on 05.10.20 at 7:42 pm

Once again a great column Garth. The commentary by the readers clearly indicates that the polarization of our society continues and only further divides us. What better way for a government, with its true agenda to come out, when we all hate, are fearful and are not able to have any meaningful discussions that we are willing to listen to. We are going downhill fast, and there is no turning back. Bring on the Dark Ages, part 2!

#173 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 7:49 pm

@134 Tractor Boy-

Uh, you said one was a tradesman in your post and the other is an “operator”. Nevertheless, you didn’t answer any of my questions.

Just come clean and admit you made it all up and we’re all good.

#174 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 7:51 pm

#163 you a bad dad on 05.10.20 at 10:45 am
@#96 IHCTD9 on 05.09.20 at 7:43 pm
#87 Joseph R. on 05.09.20 at 6:29 pm

Nobody is preventing you from running for public office.
——

Everyone should be trying to get a govy job….

It’s why I’m gently guiding my kids towards public sector work. It just keeps getting juicier, and juicier with no end in sight. Once they’re in, no worries – ever. The gravy train won’t end until the IMF is called in.
______________________________________

Willfully pushing your kids to take the path of least resistance? Sad. hopefully your kids are smarter than you.
——

That’s right. So you encourage your kids to get a PHD in Basket Weaving, and I’ll let my kids know that they might be best off doing whatever they choose to do – for the government.

My kids are pretty smart, they know they only get what they give, which is good for places like the Food Bank, which in turn will be good for your kids.

#175 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 7:52 pm

Oh, and by the way Tractor Boy, how can’t delete or edit posts here unlike other places. So I invite you to take another look at what you typed in post #134 and reconsider your BS.

Thanks.

Still friends?

#176 short horses on 05.10.20 at 7:57 pm

A federal jobs guarantee would be preferable to cheques for everybody. We’re routinely castigated by American presidents — including the ones our leaders hug — for not spending 2% on defense, like we’ve committed to under NATO.

COVID-19 has shown us a multitude of ways how more spending can be shoehorned into defense, through jobs (we have a better idea now who the essential workers are) and “Made in Canada solutions” to emergencies.

#177 Pete from St. Cesaire on 05.10.20 at 8:01 pm

Wouldn’t they have to keep the money flowing to anyone who has minor children? We always hear, in child support payment cases, that it is illegal to lower the standard of living of a child. That legislation should be all it takes to keep the money flowing.
Also, people who have been subject to months of terrifying news about how “they’re all going to die from this bug” should be applying for disability right now. Social phobia, in this case germ-driven social phobia, is very real and those who suffer with it should automatically be eligible for disability payments.

#178 Yuus bin Haad on 05.10.20 at 8:04 pm

Oh boy! I just overheard Mona responding to Bill – “Maybe we could just lower the minimum earnings condition to zero?”

#179 Scott on 05.10.20 at 8:09 pm

@turner nation

Saw your reply from the other day. All of those posts elude to vague remarks. Who exactly do you think is behind this man made crisis that you predicted? Is it a group of ten guys, 100 guys, 1000?

#180 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:12 pm

@#158 Akashic
“But what happened to your friend’s son, who always excelled academically.”
+++

He’s still in the States.
Making obscene money.
He pops up to Canada a few times a year to visit family and friends.
No intention of ever moving back until retirement…..maybe.

#181 Blessed_Canadian_Millenial on 05.10.20 at 8:13 pm

#171 Anthony on 05.10.20 at 7:41 pm
#145-Blessed

“The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.”

Who still believes this trickle down nonsense?

——————-

Anthony, please pray tell who creates the jobs? Government? LOL.

It’s the factory owner that creates jobs. The same owner who, with the grace of God, some hard work, perservrance, and a bit of luck, will do well if all things go his way. All of a sudden he’s the target of your ire?

Help me understand your perspective, please.

#182 MF on 05.10.20 at 8:15 pm

Someone posted something very insightful a few weeks ago. Obviously no one saw it. He said that income tax rate alone has no real relationship to the prosperity of the country.

A quick google search shows which countries have the highest individual tax rates in the OECD (2018 stats):

1) Belgium 2) Germany 3) Italy 4) France 5) Austria

Country with the lowest tax rates in the OECD:

Chile.

Countries who have higher tax rates than Canada:

Japan, UK (US is now lower I believe).

https://taxfoundation.org/comparison-tax-burden-labor-oecd-2018/

What about corporate tax? Surely Canada is getting reemed here!

Highest corporate tax rate in the world (2019):

1) United Arab Emirates 2) Puerto Rico 3) Suriname 4) Chad 5) Democratic Republic of Congo.

Most are in Africa or Asia. The only western country is France on this list.

Lowest in the world?

1) Barbados 2) Uzbekistan 3) Turkmenistan 4) Hungary 5) Montenegro

Some countries have no tax and they are the havens you would assume (Bahamas, Cayman Islands etc.).

Also, corporate tax rates around the world have been decreasing steadily since 2000 (Canada included).

https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-tax-rates-around-the-world-2019/

Some obvious myths out there. Canada is high tax (wrong). Taxes are the only that matters when it comes to prosperity (wrong). Taxes have been rising (wrong).

All the while inequality has been rising. Is there a relationship there?

“Moreover, countries are increasingly coming together to co-operate on international tax issues, to reduce the ability of high-wealth individuals and companies to shift assets and income offshore to avoid taxation. A wide variety of other policies are also on the agenda for many OECD countries.”

http://www.oecd.org/social/inequality.htm

MF

#183 Retro Marxist on 05.10.20 at 8:16 pm

Most of the Lost Jobs Aren’t Coming Back. The Toronto real estate bubble is collapsing before our very eyes. Homelessness is set to explode like the 2003 invasion of Baghdad, Iraq.

#184 S.Bby on 05.10.20 at 8:18 pm

Coronavirus: Basic income in Manitoba should be a right, not a privilege, says BIM chair

https://globalnews.ca/news/6926930/coronavirus-manitoba-basic-income/

BIM means Basic Income Manitoba. What else would he say? – Garth

#185 Jeff on 05.10.20 at 8:20 pm

It goes hand-in-hand with MMT (Modern Monetary Theory) whose left-wing adherents believe central banks should print all the money a society and its citizens need, since they just owe it to themselves. Kinda like our prime minister giving us $250 billion we don’t have.

Why not hit up the ultra-wealthy in the country to pay taxes for once? instead of them hiding profits in off-shore tax havens. Why don’t you ever do a story on those vampires and their tax avoidance schemes? oh, because they are the “bullet proof elites?”

#186 Kaleycat on 05.10.20 at 8:21 pm

UBI is not be a principle to be considered in isolation, but rather as part of a larger strategy. New Zealand, Iceland and Scotland are already moving in that direction. There is consideration being given to the use of society wellness measures as the measure for success, as opposed to GDP. The times, they are a-changin’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_New_Zealand_budget

#187 Jeff on 05.10.20 at 8:21 pm

#145-Blessed

“The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.”

Who still believes this trickle down nonsense

Indeed, without workers the rich would have nothing; workers create value

#188 Ace Goodheart on 05.10.20 at 8:26 pm

Welcome to Canada.

The country where we make sheep out of sheep s#$t.

#189 CJ on 05.10.20 at 8:27 pm

Fact is, responsible families like ours who choose to have a parent stay home and raise the kids vs farming out the job to day cares get screwed financially. If income splitting isn’t allowed, at least give us the UBI.

#190 SunShowers on 05.10.20 at 8:27 pm

For those hyperventilating not over coronavirus, but instead the thought of poor people being paid for not working, please enjoy an excerpt from the very wise and famous philosopher Bertrand Russell:

“First of all: what is work? Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth’s surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid. The second kind is capable of indefinite extension: there are not only those who give orders but those who give advice as to what orders should be given. Usually two opposite kinds of advice are given simultaneously by two different bodies of men; this is called politics. The skill required for this kind of work is not knowledge of the subjects as to which advice is given, but knowledge of the art of persuasive speaking and writing, i.e. of advertising.

There is a third class of men, more respected than either of the classes of workers. These are men who, through ownership of land, are able to make others pay for the privilege of being allowed to exist and to work. These landowners are idle, and I might, therefore, be expected to praise them. Unfortunately, their idleness is rendered possible only by the industry of others; indeed their desire for comfortable idleness is historically the source of the whole gospel of work. The last thing they have ever wished is that others should follow their example.”

#191 Gulf Breeze on 05.10.20 at 8:37 pm

Millenial Realist,

Agree. Anybody with a business selling products or services should be clamoring for this, even if their tax dollars go up. The UBI will help to resurrect their customer base.

Those invested in large corporations, too, need to understand that the best way to put a floor under losses isn’t through direct compensation but through their customers.

I had to support my self employed sister through a year of unemployment, a few years back, while helping to support a friend at the same time. Though they are both really hard workers, neither of them qualified for any government support, so it was all on me. And that’s okay. But what if I wasn’t here?

The govt needs to tax heavily while supporting UBI. They can tax me until I turn blue. I don’t care. If they institute UBI, I won’t have this ongoing nagging worry about family, friends and possibly myself.

It’s past due. And yes, get with the change or be run over by it.

And those who don’t like it can always move to the U.S. and enjoy their freedom behind barb wire fences, with their guns, trying to dodge rampant crime.

Mass murder in NS two weeks ago, by guns. I guess you missed that, while self-absorbing. – Garth

#192 LP on 05.10.20 at 8:37 pm

#1 Hotels on 05.10.20 at 1:01 pm
***************************
Since the end of January I have had 2 weeks’ worth of hotel reservations made for a solo road trip to Kenora by way of Sioux Lookout. Homeward bound would have been a different route a little south before heading east again. Your post has scuttled that for me.

I have been holding out hope, against all good sense, that things would return to normal enough for me to go ahead with my plans. Now tomorrow will be spent phoning all those hotels/inns to cancel my reservations. Not feeling good about that at all! But what you say makes it seem like a necessity for sure.

F72ON

#193 WUL on 05.10.20 at 8:38 pm

Hi Garth,

I looked for mention in your post today of the savings on the other side of the ledger and could not see it. UBI allows us to get rid of EI, OAS and GIS does it not?

Also, the pilot projects of UBI were set up to fail.

Respectfully,

WUL

#194 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:41 pm

@#175 Bytor
These guys might not be “tradesmen” per say but possibly Power Engineers “operators” OR they have been bumped up from their trade into a supervisor position….
I have a cousin who works for Ontario Hydro , very high up, making huge coin, started out years ago as a pipefitter but he has brains and is a very hard worker….so, apparently, he stood out like a sore thumb at Ont. Hydro. , promotion after promotion , voila!
He da man makin’ big dinero keepin the lights on in Terrana.
He cant wait to retire and get the frack back east.

#195 Anon in Timmins on 05.10.20 at 8:41 pm

I am going to start out by saying most of the comments on here focus on the extreme ends of reality, ie, what you see day in day out in the MSM. I think we need to focus our attention between the extremes, where a majority of people tend to live. The monetary system is used as a way to allocate resources. It is supported merely by the trust we place in the system. If the wealth gap keeps on widening, more people may lose faith in the system which would be much more devastating to our way of life than any new policy a politician enacts. I see a lot of comments here about the poor, “lazy” people. No doubt there are some who are lazy, and want to live off whatever hand outs they can get. But I think this misses the flip side of the argument in that there are well-off people who attempt to evade taxes, or companies that get tax breaks from our governments who then attempt to hide profits overseas. But again, we are talking about the extreme ends of reality. I get the flip side of this in that companies employ people, giving them meaning and tax breaks help lure them to set up shop but I guess that’s the paradox we live in. If you use our infrastructure and services, you should pay your fair share. Or, the people who are truly down on their luck that could really use a benefit such as a UBI. There are more people who could truly use this than there are those who would jump on for a free ride. In terms of the UBI, would be nice to see some sort of publicly available cost benefit analysis as to how this will be paid for. Yes, EI could likely be done away with as well as the welfare system and various child benefits. You could argue that UBI would basically be consolidating all the various benefits into one, thus reducing administration costs in addition to eliminating various programs. If CPP were to be eliminated, it would probably have to be phased out over time.

But the best way to save money? The decisions we make every single day. The food we eat, our exercise habits, lifestyles etc all have a direct impact on the cost of our health care, and the cost of living in our society in general. Health care is, in fact, not free as so many people might say after leaving the hospital without swiping the plastic and is also one of the largest public expenses. I am in favour of a UBI. I do believe that people should have dignity in their lives regardless of who they are or what their situation is. If the poor can be marginalized with such ease, who is next? Why not you or me?

#196 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:43 pm

#167 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 7:34 pm

@#152 Akashic Globalist
“Do you have any proof that Canadians, as a nation were less financially illiterate prior the the beginning of the globalization?”
++++
Sure.
The more billions our fearless minority govt. dictator hands out at presser scrums each day gets him higher in the polls….. he’s our “hero”.

I am looking for proof that people were financially better off 40-50+ years ago, because they were financially more savvy. From Garth’s articles it sounds like people’s financial illiteracy is the root of all financial problems today.

I suspect that they average joe in the past could accumulate more money, not because the level of financial literacy was different, but because the economic system at that time enabled them to accumulate more wealth from their earnings.

Government programs were thinner, taxes lower, rates higher, houses cheaper. – Garth

#197 LP on 05.10.20 at 8:46 pm

#34 Flop… on 05.10.20 at 2:16 pm
I put up s chart the other day that showed Canada supposedly has 44 guys that are billionaires.

I say guys because a couple of days later they showed the richest females, and I didn’t see a Canadian Billionairess on the list.

You’ll have to settle for one of them pesky Millionairess’

There was one Billionairess Sheila in Australia.

I had a chance and muffed it.

I will live with my poor decision…

M45BC
******************************
But maybe not for long if Ms. Flop is a reader. ;>}

#198 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:48 pm

… a cap tax on RE gains would be simple to execute. – Garth

Since everything is running on computers now, to tax any gain on any non-cash financial transaction is no problem to execute.

#199 Drunken Stupor on 05.10.20 at 8:48 pm

@96 Russ
Bravo!!! One of my favorite quotes…

#200 Westcdn on 05.10.20 at 8:50 pm

We know most deaths from CV1984 are weak and old. I am willing to protect them by being consciousness. CV1984 has to run it’s course quickly or not.

As I see it, the virus is quickly running out of easy old victims. Governments are counting on a 100% vaccine – I don’t see it. I don’t see a need to rush into herd immunity without facts but I see peter principal in action. I do not fear a second wave. I have done the best I can to stand…

Just as a side note, have you noticed most elites are blaming small people for social ills while protecting their ilk. Grinds my teeth yet God does not love a fool.

Say true that honour matters.

#201 Wrk.dover on 05.10.20 at 8:53 pm

All the problems in the world are caused by Wall St frat boys not wanting to pay me interest.

All of them.

#202 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:58 pm

On a side note.
I went to Safeway today and noticed several of the shelves in the meat dept were full of balloons and signs saying ” we’re all in this together!”
I asked the butcher if they were having problems getting meat, “yep, only got 2/3’s of my order”
Same thing at IGA meat section when I asked there.
And no deals.

All indications are.
Beef, pork and chicken may be in short supply this Summer bbq season ( and possibly into the Fall).

Due to the Covid-1984 slaughterhouse ( “meat packing plant” sounds so much more politically correct doesnt it?) closures here in Canada and the US.
Meat producers are scrambling to deal with thousands of Cows, pigs and chickens they have raised but cant ship to oversupplied slaughterhouses.

Meat producers are actually shipping perfectly good animals to “Rendering” plants for their fat OR they are just killing and burying them.
Perfectly healthy meat.

If you have a few friends and know a butcher or someone who has a cow or a pig they want rid of…..now’s the time to channel your “inner carnivore” and buy a 1/2 or quarter of an animal for consumption and freezing.

Get ahead of the “herd” and buy now.
I’m starting to sound like Apocalypto2020.

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/4/21243636/meat-packing-plant-supply-chain-animals-killed

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/these-are-the-meat-plants-in-canada-affected-by-the-coronavirus-outbreak-1.4916957

#203 Sydneysider on 05.10.20 at 8:59 pm

#18 Millennial Realist on 05.10.20 at 1:33 pm

“It will soon be impossible for the 1% to hide their monies in tax havens, here and elsewhere, as a result.”

You might want to delete that “realist” from your monicker. There is no need for many boomers to “hide” money. The Canadian govt has signed tax treaties that allow many of us to keep money in pension-type plans overseas, that according to treaty, cannot be taxed in Canada on withdrawal. Examples include Singapore CPF, Australian superannuation. That’s the price this country pays for living off immigration. Not a bad price nowadays, since other industries are dead. Too bad the UK ISA is taxable here.

#204 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:59 pm

Globalization in Western countries created financial decline for the majority of the population. AI, automation further accelerates this.

Trump offered the Make America Great Again solution, which resonated with voters as an attempt to deal with this decline.

The left offers now globally, not just for an individual country UBI and MMT as a counter proposal to gain political power.

#205 Fused on 05.10.20 at 9:00 pm

#150 James
So easy to game the system, take out 300k from investments one year, next two years claim zero income, actually collect three years UBI.
What is not to like, then in those couple of low income years qualify for subsidized medical and dental procedures on the cheap because your low income.

#206 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 05.10.20 at 9:01 pm

Thank you to the unselfish cottagers who did not come up this weekend.

You missed nothing. The weather was blah. Lots of snow and hail everywhere.

2021 should have a good summer. Everything else is up in the air for the foreseeable future.

#207 NFN_NLN on 05.10.20 at 9:07 pm

I think UBI, open borders, identity politics and Chinese influence are fantastic.

I’m ready to retire so I’m willing to ride this horse into the ground and get as much as I can. God help future generations though.

I can keep all of my money and the $2k/month will take care of my living expenses in southeast asia. Those welfares spending money they don’t have on dirt bikes will look patriotic compared to me. I’ll take 100% of the money and inject exactly 0% back into Canada.

#208 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 9:07 pm

171 Anthony

“The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.”

Who still believes this trickle down nonsense?

As an employee I’ve never worked for a person poorer
than me.

#209 NFN_NLN on 05.10.20 at 9:12 pm

#171 Anthony on 05.10.20 at 7:41 pm
#145-Blessed

“The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.”

Who still believes this trickle down nonsense?

Productive people create industry. Industry creates jobs. Jobs create wealth. Even communists know this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPt9pGfpmS0

#210 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 9:20 pm

Anyway, it’s coming. Hide your stash.

Individual savers, investors can’t really hide the money.

Today the most efficient way to “hide” legally a few million dollar income is with corporate revenue, which is shuffled across multiple private companies, owned by the same couple of shareholders, and diligently picking up all government incentives imaginable – from free interns to wage, rent, tax, export, R&D, etc. subsidies on the way. These days adding a non-profit to the mix to ping-pong money around is also highly recommended.

#211 Adc on 05.10.20 at 9:22 pm

Garth, can you reference which polls you are referring to that show Canadian support for UBI?

Google. – Garth

#212 NFN_NLN on 05.10.20 at 9:31 pm

#171 Anthony on 05.10.20 at 7:41 pm
#145-Blessed

“The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.”

Who still believes this trickle down nonsense?

Anthony, is this you in this youtube video?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdA2-CAJWjo

This is a VERY important lesson for you.

#213 Dr V on 05.10.20 at 9:32 pm

187 Fused – that would be poor tax planning and probably wont work. And those subsidies may be altered or limited as well.

UBI is simply added to your total income. If you collect only UBI, then I would think the personal exemption would be very close to covering it. Of course you would wind up paying it all back at some level of income.

#214 red_falcon on 05.10.20 at 9:33 pm

Human nature makes Universal Basic income an impossible thing to work out. Socialism as well (it only works until the money’s all gone).

LKY from Singapore said it best, giving money to the people just provides a disincentive to them. If they have money, they have no need to do anything else. So, basically you’re paying the poor guy to do nothing, and contribute nothing to society. The best course of action is to work! This provides proper accountability, proper incentive, proper pay, and proper purpose to the person. Note the word proper keeps coming up, it’s not there by accident you know!

#215 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 9:34 pm

#180 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:43 pm

I am looking for proof that people were financially better off 40-50+ years ago, because they were financially more savvy. From Garth’s articles it sounds like people’s financial illiteracy is the root of all financial problems today.

I suspect that they average joe in the past could accumulate more money, not because the level of financial literacy was different, but because the economic system at that time enabled them to accumulate more wealth from their earnings.

Government programs were thinner, taxes lower, rates higher, houses cheaper. – Garth

So it is not primarily the level of financial literacy of the individuals.

Government programs, level of taxation, interest rates are all beyond the meaningful decision-making power of individuals – whether they are financially literate or not.

The same how AI, automation will completely reshape the entire economy and society.

#216 Gulf Breeze on 05.10.20 at 9:40 pm

And those who don’t like it can always move to the U.S. and enjoy their freedom behind barb wire fences, with their guns, trying to dodge rampant crime.

**********************************************

Mass murder in NS two weeks ago, by guns. I guess you missed that, while self-absorbing. – Garth

***********************
I thought more highly of you. And how is extreme concern about the welfare of other’s, “self absorbed.”

My point stands. As tragic as Nova Scotia shootings were, mass shootings are rare here and common South of the border.

#217 hey on 05.10.20 at 9:41 pm

@#206 Cottagers STAY THE HELL AWAY! on 05.10.20 at 9:01 pm
Thank you to the unselfish cottagers who did not come up this weekend.

You missed nothing. The weather was blah. Lots of snow and hail everywhere.

2021 should have a good summer. Everything else is up in the air for the foreseeable future.
__________________________________

dude, you need to shut your self-righteous pie hole already.

#218 Nancy on 05.10.20 at 9:41 pm

They should be giving CERB to everyone and clawing it back at tax time from those that didn’t need it, like myself. I am ok with UBI, but at a lower amount whereby it only covers necessities and not dirt bikes and does away with other government programs/subsidies

#219 dlt inc on 05.10.20 at 9:42 pm

So Garth, you ask how we can get $76 billion out of the 11,000 individuals worth more than $30 million each. Well the wealthiest 100 Canadians are together worth about $400 billion. Don’t believe me. Well look it up and add them up yourself. That means there are 10,900 who would average well over $30 million each. So for the 11,000 we are talking about at least 1 Trillion possibly even 2 Trillion. So, assuming they all have smart advisors like you they have to be making at least 10% on their money. That’s 50 to 100 Billion in income a year. So tax them 50% and we are talking about 25 to 50 billion a year in taxes. And then there are all those millionaires with wealth between 10 and 30 million. So we aren’t necessarily that far away from your $76 billion.
As far as saying that taxing the wealthy this much would force them to sell their shares to be able to pay their taxes. No they would not, remember they are only paying tax on their income. If they are invested in non producing assets like mansions, islands etc. maybe they shouldn’t be tying up so much of their wealth in such assets that could be employed more for the benefit of society. Maybe they should be taxed on the greater of a percentage of their wealth or their annual income. That way they would have an incentive to put more of their assets to work and increase the nation’s productivity.

Astonishing. – Garth

#220 45north on 05.10.20 at 9:44 pm

Figure it out

The best place to look for evidence of this theory is the United States. State tax rates vary considerably, people can move freely from one state to another, and they all speak the same two languages.

that’s bizarre. What two languages? I’m thinking English and Spanish. There’s no way to figure it out.

#221 hey on 05.10.20 at 9:44 pm

@#202 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:58 pm
On a side note.
I went to Safeway today and noticed several of the shelves in the meat dept were full of balloons and signs saying ” we’re all in this together!”
I asked the butcher if they were having problems getting meat, “yep, only got 2/3’s of my order”
Same thing at IGA meat section when I asked there.
And no deals.’
___________________________

hmm, ample meat in tranna.
they’ll even deliver as much as you want to yer porch for a small fee.

#222 hey on 05.10.20 at 9:49 pm

@#195 Anon in Timmins on 05.10.20 at 8:41 pm
I am going to start out by saying most of the comments on here focus on the extreme ends of reality, ie, what you see day in day out in the MSM. I think we need to focus our attention between the extremes, where a majority of people tend to live. The monetary system is used as a way to allocate resources. It is supported merely by the trust we place in the system.
__________________________________

WHO THE HELL LET THIS GUY IN HERE?
no voices of reason allowed!
us blogdogs only deal in broad generalizations, conspiracy theories and black and white speak.

#223 TurnerNation on 05.10.20 at 9:53 pm

#179 Scott – put simply each man has his price. I know mine. You know yours.
Everyone knows the hoops into which they must jump, at school and work to get ahead. We all play the game. Oftentimes the price is turning a blind eye.
How high up the ladder do you wish to go?

What we are living is a form of magical thinking. Words beget beliefs, beget actions. Witness 7 billion people forced 6-feet apart. How many are involved? Everyone at that low level.

– I enjoyed a greasy lunch at a ‘cash only’ shack. (Supporting small business). Nary a sink in sight.
Nothing has changed from mid-March but our minds. Some are freer now, some are more contained.

#224 you a bad dad on 05.10.20 at 9:58 pm

@#174 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 7:51 pm
#163 you a bad dad on 05.10.20 at 10:45 am
@#96 IHCTD9 on 05.09.20 at 7:43 pm
#87 Joseph R. on 05.09.20 at 6:29 pm

Nobody is preventing you from running for public office.
——

Everyone should be trying to get a govy job….

It’s why I’m gently guiding my kids towards public sector work. It just keeps getting juicier, and juicier with no end in sight. Once they’re in, no worries – ever. The gravy train won’t end until the IMF is called in.
______________________________________

Willfully pushing your kids to take the path of least resistance? Sad. hopefully your kids are smarter than you.
——

That’s right. So you encourage your kids to get a PHD in Basket Weaving, and I’ll let my kids know that they might be best off doing whatever they choose to do – for the government.

My kids are pretty smart, they know they only get what they give, which is good for places like the Food Bank, which in turn will be good for your kids.
______________________________

not only are you a bad dad, you’re an ignorant one.
thats probably worse.

#225 will on 05.10.20 at 10:01 pm

“Universal Basic Income abolishes poverty and reduces human suffering as well as reducing the costs of poverty to society.”

Well ok. sounds good. But right now I have only contemptuous pity for Melanie.

#226 hey on 05.10.20 at 10:04 pm

An indictment of our society, and affirmation we’re a nation of financial illiterates? You bet. Like the 29-year old Ontario mom, Melanie, using the $2,000-per-month CERB to buy her kids dirt bikes.
______________________________

looks like melanie is taking a page out of IHCTD9’s book. Maybe melanie is in fact mrs. IHCTD9??

#227 Stan Brooks on 05.10.20 at 10:09 pm

#124 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 5:28 pm

Excellent post. In the land of the debt slaves and political correctness, with the pathological dislike and discouragement of differing opinions the skilled and entrepreneurs will only suffer.

This place has become a laughing stock for supposedly 3rd world countries.

Exit tax here exists only when you give up citizenship, not when you transfer assets out. So better hurry up before it is introduced as the rich for sure will transfer their assets abroad on time (Cayman island tax scandal for example) and the stupid sheeple will be stuck holding their investment ‘peanuts’ here.

#228 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 10:12 pm

#175 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.10.20 at 7:52 pm
Oh, and by the way Tractor Boy, how can’t delete or edit posts here unlike other places. So I invite you to take another look at what you typed in post #134 and reconsider your BS.

Thanks.

Still friends?

—- ——

“One is a Tradesman [-] now paper pusher that satisfies regulation requirements and schedules maintenance work.”

I added a hyphen for clarity. I probably could have wrote that better. The Dude does push paper now.

Yes still friends, just don’t start thinking your tripe on here holds a candle to mine. You might be a close second though.

A week ago I quoted a post of yours regarding golf and Garth deleted the crap out of me.

#229 ruralguy on 05.10.20 at 10:16 pm

@#124 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 5:28 pm
Marco.
Let me give you an example of the Canadian system of fairness and fiscal stupidity.

A friend of mine who’s son……
_____________________________________

yawwwn, more anecdotal nonsense from fartz.
although your anecdotes are slightly less tiresome than those from IHCTD9

#230 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 10:23 pm

@#216 Gulf Wheeze
“My point stands. As tragic as Nova Scotia shootings were, mass shootings are rare here ….”
++++

Soooo, On that statement…….you would agree that the latest Liberal “smoke and mirrors” very detailed and extensive gun control legislation is unnecessary and was unleashed immediately after a mass killing merely to score political points with an ignorant electorate?

A government ghouls’ gun grab…..?

As it were?

Glad we could agree on something.

#231 Sold Out on 05.10.20 at 10:26 pm

You know who will benefit from UBI?

Women, that’s who. Stay at home Moms, caregivers of elderly relatives, jobs that are more than full-time hours and consist of actual work. Hard, dirty, physically and emotionally demanding labour that attracts no pay, and no respect.

It is long past due for the women, and sometimes the men, who have performed this unpaid labour to be compensated.

#232 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 10:27 pm

@#221 hay
“they’ll even deliver as much as you want to yer porch for a small fee.”
+++=

gee , because the majority of big slaughterhouses are back east?
Just heard they closed one in Quebec today. Covid out break. Q’uelle surprise’…..

FYI….keep an eye on your cat and dog….we carnivores aren’t too fussy when we’ve gone without protein for a few weeks.

#233 As Is Old Man on 05.10.20 at 10:28 pm

re: “rich” create the jobs considered “trickle down nonsense”:

Perhaps the “rich” don’t create jobs directly in all cases
– more likely the “rich” create jobs indirectly by making capital available for investment. The price paid for use of this capital which is a function of risk vs. reward.

I am curious though – who do you think actually creates jobs?

#234 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 10:30 pm

@#219 deleted incorporation

The only thing more frightening than your simplistic justification for unfairly taxing people that have more money than you is……. you vote.

#235 Anthony on 05.10.20 at 10:43 pm

181-Blessed
“Anthony, please pray tell who creates the jobs? Government? LOL.”

Customers with financial security create jobs. This is easy to understand, if we gave all the money to a handful of people and left 99.5% of the population with table scraps what wealthy person is just going to create a job? He’s going to build a factory and sell products to who?

Seriously, the wealthy want you to believe this trickle down garbage. That the tax breaks and corporate welfare and bailouts have to start from the top.

And boy do the wealthy line up like pigs at the trough.

We have socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.

#236 Ballingsford on 05.10.20 at 10:45 pm

Maybe the earth is culling itself. It happens to animals all the time when their numbers get too large.
Humans are animals, and maybe we just have too many of us for mother earth to sustain.

#237 Anthony on 05.10.20 at 10:49 pm

#212-NFN

A Ben Shapiro video. He’s the biggest snowflake going, everything is anti-semitic to him. I’ll pass.

#238 rknusa on 05.10.20 at 10:49 pm

one word – Panama

foreign income like pensions are not taxed

Panama Is Famous for Its Light Tax Burdens on Residents

Personal income tax in Panama is based on a sliding scale, ranging from a minimum of 7% after the first $9,000, to a maximum rate of 27%. Regardless of your residency status, the tax is only applied to Panamanian-sourced income.

#239 A J on 05.10.20 at 10:55 pm

Dirt bikes? Holy hell. I’m literally at a loss for words.

As if it’s not hard enough for many of us still working in this environment, we have to sit back and watch our tax dollars buy unemployed people dirt bikes, as they sit at home and collect their free money. If you want a recipe for destroyed productivity, this is it. Have no consequences for overspending or job loss. And watch as everyone sits home and gets fat on the couch forever.

#240 Dirty Dan on 05.10.20 at 10:58 pm

Garth,

We are entering a cold war, that may eventually run hot. I see countries aligning themselves.

1: US, UK, Australia, India, Taiwan, Japan

2: China, Pakistan, Iran, Canada

It has been quite a while since Canada aligned against the US. I notice you always avoid discussion about mainland China. Why is that?

It’s quite funny to see, but people will deny up and down they’re China sympathizers or pro-communist, but one thing the CCP won’t tolerate is acknowledgement of Taiwan. They will lie up and down about any affiliation, but there is a CCP directive not to acknowledge “Taiwan”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly3aufJ6uv4

#241 TRON on 05.10.20 at 11:03 pm

I told him in 2016 to sell his house on the west side of Vancouver. He could have listed for $6M. ‘No, the Chinese aren’t going to stop coming and besides there is no better investment than real easte’. At the time he was a year from retirement from a lucrative commercial real estate career with no pension and no investments. ‘I can get $800 a night on VRBO and I’m booked solid for the next three years’.

House got a BC assessed at $3.1M in 2019, he’s had to give back all the deposits for the VROB and no bookings now, zip. He’s collecting the $2000 a month CERB.

We don’t always get what we want but governments give us enough to get elected or enough not to revolt. Canadians have put themselves here because many, not all, feel entitled and really don’t care about the other guy. If we did Hastings street would not exist and our elderly would not be dying in care homes.

I wish all my fellow Canadians good luck and I’m grateful for the opportunity I had to work hard and have a plan. In a couple of years I’ll retire to another country where people understand there are no government bailouts and that to get on with life you need to cooperate, provide a valuable service and work hard to keep up a standard of living you can earn instead of waiting for a beurocrat to decide your fate.

#242 Air canada on 05.10.20 at 11:09 pm

Hi Garth, if air Canada gets a bail out from Trudeau, wouldn’t it be better for them to receive no bail out and just let them sink ? I don’t want my taxes going to AC
Thanks
Regan

#243 palebird on 05.10.20 at 11:38 pm

#68 Millenial Realist
“Thank you for your words of wisdom and experienced analysis.

We absolutely need smart Boomers like you to help build the future. It’s definitely not too late for you to share your thoughts and influence, hopefully for a couple more decades at least. (And if life-extending tech. comes as fast as possible for us all, it could be more…but that’s a topic for another day!)

Folks, this is a game changing situation now.”

Wow, you have a nice life now dreaming in technicolor. This will keep me amused for many weeks.

#244 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.10.20 at 11:54 pm

#202 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:58 pm
On a side note.
I went to Safeway today and noticed several of the shelves in the meat dept were full of balloons and signs saying ” we’re all in this together!”
I asked the butcher if they were having problems getting meat, “yep, only got 2/3’s of my order”
Same thing at IGA meat section when I asked there.
And no deals.
——————
I think they saw you coming, and hid it all.
Don’t want the meat get contaminated.

#245 rookie57 on 05.10.20 at 11:54 pm

Some people seem to think that if we tax corporations more, everything would be great. Unfortunately, most corporations usually have a life expectancy. New business corporations then succeed and take over from corporations that languish and die. Why would a new corporation start, or invest, in Canada if it is taxed to death? What is the incentive? Thinking that all we need to do is tax corporations up the ying yang is naive. They will go elsewhere.

#246 jane24 on 05.11.20 at 12:01 am

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.

Margaret Thatcher

Says it all.

#247 Fused on 05.11.20 at 12:02 am

#213 Dr V
I know that 300k was extreme but through prudent tax planning one could basically reduce their income to zero while actually achieving an income well above, through dividend income or capital gains and investment interest used to offset gains, basically net zero if done correctly.
The value of a good financial team can not be discounted as there are many ways to lower income and possibly receive many benefits from the govt and why not?
Margin interest is tax deductible along with LOC interest for investing in a margin account, I get a five figure tax refund every year through prudent tax planning(refund goes right back into RRSP, basically a perpetual income generating account).
Just look at what a million dollar in margin gives you at 1.5%(IBKR), 15k in deductions while enjoying the benefits of 1000k working for you.
So many options, pardon the pun!

#248 Flanneur on 05.11.20 at 12:07 am

The arguments for ubi are good. Would I trust Trudeau with this, no way. I assume eventually there will be some form of a basic income but our system is nowhere near ready for it. Could be good the arts:)

#249 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 12:14 am

#187 Jeff on 05.10.20 at 8:21 pm
#145-Blessed

“The “rich” create the jobs; how quickly we forget this.”

Who still believes this trickle down nonsense

—————-

Well, I employ 20-some people. If the tax climate here becomes onerous, I will definitely relocate head office. So, yeah, I think there’s something to it.

Who do you think creates jobs, Jeff? The poor?

#250 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 12:26 am

Re: Exit tax

Let’s discuss this.

If you choose to make a new country your tax home, your Canadian tax return for the year you leave will include ‘deemed disposition’ of property, meaning you must account for all capital gains in non-registered accounts.

This will be added to your income at the capital gains exclusion rate in your final return. Registered accounts and residence are not included.

Now, here’s the thing: you don’t need to pay the deemed disposition immediately. It can be deferred until sale of the assets. So mostly a nothing burger unless the assets lose value before you sell.

The following could be a big benefit: for nonresidents, RRSP distributions are pre-taxed 15% by Canada when taken, but depending on your new tax home, it’s possible you’ll not need to pay anymore! Huge benefit. Thanks Olderandwiser for pointing that out!

So, if you want to go… prepare, then go. Talk with your accountant. Exit tax is no biggie.

#251 TurnerNation on 05.11.20 at 12:34 am

I’ve got it. Consider this outcome: Canada alone cannot afford a UBI. But if all the world countries pooled together and supported a fund then maybe so, a UBI worldwide.
Call it I don’t know, a unity of nations? Nations united? Wait I’ve got it: The United Nations.
Yes folks the UN runs us you, just do not yet know or accept it. The veil will soon lift.
Maybe this crisis or the next one they bring our way.
Perhaps a food crisis.

#252 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 12:38 am

…or in my case: prepare, then don’t go. Set everything up for a seamless tax home departure if necessary (if the gov’t comes after your assets), but stay for the time being to see how the situation shakes out. If worse comes to worst: Adios amigos!

We’re busy looking at places we might like to live for a minimum of 183 days/year. Hawaii, California, Oregon, Colorado, Arizona are all on the list. Flagstaff seems to be leading right now.

#253 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 12:43 am

#189 CJ on 05.10.20 at 8:27 pm

Fact is, responsible families like ours who choose to have a parent stay home and raise the kids vs farming out the job to day cares get screwed financially. If income splitting isn’t allowed, at least give us the UBI.

—————–

Sure… responsible, as defined by you. Quit looking for a handout, you weenie.

#254 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 1:00 am

#202 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:58 pm

All indications are

Beef, pork and chicken may be in short supply this Summer bbq season ( and possibly into the Fall).

—————-

Damn. Guess I’ll have to survive on deer, moose, pheasants, grouse, salmon and halibut. Life is hell.

#255 SWL on 05.11.20 at 1:00 am

Stick a fork in Canada, for it is done with Trudeau and his 74% approval rating calling the shots

Watching what this Covid 1984 pandemic and what the MSM along with the CBC has done and is doing to our society sure is depressing. TurnerNation has been pretty spot on with his analysis of the events unfolding, and anyone who has journeyed down the rabbit hole on the reality of the situation will understand this. The objective is clear. Step by step we are marching there and clearly some are much more aware of it than others

Now for everyone who chooses to laugh this all off as some sort of ‘conspiracy theory’… Hasn’t the ugly side of humanity already shown and proven to us that humans are tribal creatures who are constantly conspiring in groups against one another???

Too bad about Melanie and her purchase of a China junk dirt bike. Hope the dopamine hit was good, cause that thing is literal junk before that kid turns it into a bent piece of metal and broken plastic

Oh Canada I weep

#256 Elon Musk on 05.11.20 at 1:22 am

To all the tax and spenders:

Message received.

#257 Blutterfy on 05.11.20 at 1:25 am

I think we should implement reverse taxation as our ubi. People would get a tax refund doled out monthly and as their income climbed the dole would decrease until they got to zero dole and zero tax and then tax would slowly climb. It wouldn’t be hard to work it so for every bracket you would be taking home more per week than the bracket below (ie making $130,000 gives you more per week than making $30,000+ dole). Ubi is something that has seriously got to be addressed though. For example (to pick on just one I know) I have a friend who runs her own in home hair salon and working as much as she can as a single parent takes home $1500/month and thus identifies with Melanie in the feeling rich on cerb. (She bought herself and her kid new beds though instead of bikes).

#258 KNOW IT ALL on 05.11.20 at 2:09 am

“If you’re in the luckiest 1 percent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 percent.”

—Warren BUFFETT—

#259 ALL FOR WHAT??? on 05.11.20 at 2:15 am

https://www.msnbc.com/ali-velshi/watch/universal-basic-income-would-give-americans-breathing-room-during-the-crisis-83270213604

#260 happy go lucky on 05.11.20 at 2:20 am

#9 Millenial Realist on 05.10.20

Environment, Pandemic, Corporations, and those “mirrors”… , forward is the only motion, the ones you are refering to have no rear view… but if you see big wall approaching, good survival skills “a must”, we are in very strong currents right now…
Have you ever tried white water rafting? It is just like that, except in this episode most are “raw”, unprepared and SCREEMING, you bet, just wait for the next “rapids”…(they never look back!)
BTW nobody bets on past, markets are forward looking, parents looking for kids to grow, enough, I know, but those “evil” corporations are the last ones to use “rear view” Even politicians preferred line is “ let’s move forward” So the “rear view mirror” analogy is a bit out of line…and pandemic worst impact, inability to think and question, ignorance is wide spread now.
My last statement has nothing to do with your post, just afterthought, and my growing covid immunity.
Cheers,

#261 BS on 05.11.20 at 2:22 am

#50 Sold Out on 05.10.20 at 2:35 pm
“Where’s the money for UBI going to come from?”

From ending corporate welfare and raising their tax rate back to 1984 levels, of course.

What would the tax revenue be for the companies that move to the US or other lower tax countries after this increase? Zero. Money flows to where it is treated best.

#262 tkid on 05.11.20 at 2:32 am

Every country that has implemented pie-in-the-sky socialism without balancing the books has seen their economies collapse. By all means pay your taxes, but get your money to safer havens than Canada.

#263 BS on 05.11.20 at 2:34 am

Of course UBI makes no sense. Besides the huge cost, it gives incentive not to not work. Not a good thing for any economy. But the problem is politicians make decisions mostly based on what will get them the most votes. It seems Canadians are happy with all the free hand outs so far. Why would the Trudeau stop? If more free stuff equals more votes, more free stuff it is. I could actually see this happening after the positive reaction to what has happened to far. Nobody cares about debt. 50 cent $CAD here we come.

#264 Sky on 05.11.20 at 3:29 am

The western lockdown economies are in a coma and on life support. Condition critical. Slim chance of survival but there’s hope.

If or when you see the implementation of UBI you’ll know for sure that the patient has died – never to be resurrected – and is now being cremated. Don’t get too close to the crematorium, millennials. The smoking ashes will bring tears to your eyes. And you guys will fatally mistake them for tears of joy.

To promote UBI as some sort of safety cushion … “it recaptures our risk tolerance: unlocking the opportunity for everyone to take bigger risks, think long term, and create.” Who in their right mind can believe this government garbage?

Create what exactly? Many of our PREVIOUSLY EXISTING businesses will struggle to survive. And now, thanks to UBI, we’re going to create a bunch of new ones out of thin air? Virus infested air at that, with all of the masking and physical distancing. Don’t make me laugh. Cyber economy? FAANG will chew you up alive and spit out the pieces.

UBI is just an acronym for welfare because for many people it won’t be a supplemental income… it will be their ONLY source of income. Jobs will be in short supply. And UBI won’t be enough to cover even the basics anymore than CPP, OAS, and GIS. When people can’t pay for their rent, utilities or food, the rest of society will not like what comes next:

-Rent controls with landlords bailing out, housing shortages to follow.

– If food price controls become necessary then this always, always leads to food shortages and a hyperinflated food black market

Think it can’t happen? Well you never thought we’d be under arrest house either.

In the Old World, a few months ago when the USA election campaigns were all the rage, Andrew Yang got a lot of airtime selling us on UBI. It was his election platform. The Yang Gang and the Bernie Bros loved it. He was later hired by CNN as a panelist to further promote UBI. Now ask yourself why UBI was being advanced during a time of historical low unemployment in the USA. Hmm?

And what about the unending stream of pandemic movies ahead of coronavirus? Well, these movies served the same purpose as Andrew Yang. There’s a term for this. It’s called ‘predictive programming’. Or, if you prefer, a ‘harbinger’.

#265 Toronto_CA on 05.11.20 at 4:18 am

#182 MF on 05.10.20 at 8:15 pm

I don’t think that study took provincial income taxes into consideration, and is only looking at federal income tax in Canada. The rates are far too low.

“On a worldwide scale, we (Canada) are near the top when it comes to the rate of tax we pay. Out of 34 OECD countries, in 2017 Canada had the seventh highest combined tax rate at 53.53%, while Sweden topped the list at 57.12%, followed by Portugal, Japan, Denmark, France and Greece. Australia at 49% ranked thirteenth and the United Kingdom at 45% ranked twentieth. Among the Canadian provinces, the highest combined top marginal rates are:

Nova Scotia (54.00%)
Ontario (53.53%)
Quebec (53.31%)”

https://www.mondaq.com/canada/corporate-tax/808638/canadian-tax-rates-how-do-we-compare

#266 Westcdn on 05.11.20 at 4:25 am

An old proverb – Heads of gold, feet of clay. Begs the question what I am going to do when then the mighty have fallen… I will carry on and grab a piece of the head but what to do with it? (I presume the head misses me while at the feet).

I have redoubled my gardening efforts after last year’s disaster. Where is global warming as this year looks to be short a few growing days. I may have to build a green house and take up vertical farming.

It looks like I will score big with my REAL call options. I bought a few AIF puts. I decided to buy a couple of Cineplex call options after missing out before with my puts. I am starting to like this game as my confidence grows – thanks SM.

#267 Howard on 05.11.20 at 4:54 am

#218 Nancy on 05.10.20 at 9:41 pm
They should be giving CERB to everyone and clawing it back at tax time from those that didn’t need it, like myself. I am ok with UBI, but at a lower amount whereby it only covers necessities and not dirt bikes and does away with other government programs/subsidies

————————————

That’s not how it works. You cannot monitor what people choose to do with their UBI.

Unless you’re proposing the money be somehow tracked from source to expenditure? Perhaps the UBI would be distributed and spent in stores or online via a government smartphone app and barcode tracker rather than direct deposit into bank accounts, so that when you use the cash the government can see exactly what you spent?

Maybe the UBI wouldn’t be cash at all, but simply a digital points system whereby each citizen gets a certain number points to use each month on food, shelter, and clothing and nothing more. Sounds rather North Korean doesn’t it.

#268 Toronto_CA on 05.11.20 at 6:01 am

Saudi has TRIPLED their GST/HST equivalent starting in July to pay for the virus.

A sign of things to come?

“Saudi Arabia is tripling its value added tax (VAT) as part of austerity measures to support its coronavirus-hit economy.

The government in Riyadh also said it will suspend its cost of living allowance to shore up state finances.

The oil-rich nation has seen its income plummet as the impact of the pandemic has forced down global energy prices.

The kingdom first introduced VAT two years ago as part of efforts to cut its reliance on world crude oil markets.

Saudi Arabia’s state news agency said VAT will increase from 5% to 15% as of 1 July, while the cost of living allowance will be suspended from 1 June.”

#269 SoggyShorts on 05.11.20 at 6:14 am

#219 dlt inc on 05.10.20 at 9:42 pm
You mix up net worth and income 3x in the same post, impressive.

#270 Sky on 05.11.20 at 6:47 am

Another gem :

“UBI is an economic need that puts markets in service to humanity, installing the plumbing into capitalism that adds resilience and robustness to the economy, ensuring everyone can fully participate to their potential.”

****************

Who wrote this? Now that travel is dead, have the writers from Trivago infiltrated the Canadian govt? I suspect so. Because it’s obvious this is a 5 star luxury-resort-in-a-sundrenched-tropical-paradise review. With plumbing. They even mentioned plumbing. Could it get any better?

Except when you actually land on UBI Island, it’s the middle of monsoon season, your room is a rat infested hellhole with toilets that don’t work, brown sludge oozing from the taps and blood stained sheets. Never mind the armed hotel staff rooting through your luggage. At least they’re grinning from ear to ear.

I’m making light of a very tragic situation. Because many of us know the ugly place where this flight is headed and we can’t do a damn thing about it. No amount of handwashing will turn this plane around.

#271 James on 05.11.20 at 7:23 am

#198 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:48 pm

… a cap tax on RE gains would be simple to execute. – Garth

Since everything is running on computers now, to tax any gain on any non-cash financial transaction is no problem to execute.

—————–
You are both incorrect.

It would not be simple to implement a capital gains tax on real estate transactions. Here’s a simple (real) example:

I inherited my house in 1995. I have no idea what my parents paid for it (I was a too young to know or to care).

But over the next 25 years I totally renovated the kitchen, then the bathrooms a few years later, then I added a sun porch and nice deck a few years after that.

I rewired the home to replace old wiring, and added a nice stone fireplace when I finished the basement.

It was pretty spendy to do but I did it over a period of years. Oh yea, I also replaced the roof at some point.

I sold the house in 2019 for 1.3 mil.

Let’s calculated my capital gains…we know what the place sold for, so let’s calculate my COST:

The house was purchased for…I dunno how much but maybe there is a record somewhere? My parents never said and I have no records since they passed. But let’s just say that somehow we figure out what they paid for it in 1985.

I did these costly renovations over a 25 year period as I could afford to do so. I honestly no longer recall what I paid for the various renovations, but they certainly enhanced the sell price. So these costs should be added to my cost for capital gains tax calculation purposes?

I replaced the roof because it was leaking. Surely having a new roof helped me to sell for a higher price. So should that expense be included in my cost for the capital gains calculation or is that just “maintenance”? What’s the difference between a maintenance item and a renovation? Anybody? What about the new furnace, the repaved driveway? The new windows? You get the idea.

So how do you calculated my capital gain when I have no idea what the current home cost? And what about the cost of all of my improvements that enhanced to the sell price.

Nope, a simple flat tax on all sale prices is the only logical way to go if the government wants to tax residential real estate transactions.

Aside from making it manageable, it stands to increase the net tax collected…a win/win for the government…a lose/lose for us.

#272 Steve French on 05.11.20 at 7:23 am

Smoking Man…

You ok?

Send us an update dude…

Steve

#273 Ballingsford on 05.11.20 at 7:26 am

#18 Millenial Realist

Here’s another big change coming: transactional taxation will replace income tax and instead put much smaller, more efficient taxes on every transaction.
‐‐–‐—
I’ve been thinking about this comment and wonder if you could elaborate a bit on it. So, would we pay 20% tax on everything, cars over $100,000 pay 30 % tax, homes over 1 million pay 40% tax, etc.

We need more thinkers like your generation to get us out of this economic mess we are in.

BTW, did you play monopoly a lot when you were younger, and buy the railroads when you had the chance?

#274 Fused on 05.11.20 at 8:06 am

#266 Westcdn
Be confident but not over confident, keep your positions small, no more than 5% of your cash should be in one position. I keep 40% of my cash in reserve and use the other60% to run the strategies with 2%-5% per position, so if I am wrong the loss is not catastrophic to the portfolio.

#275 Stone on 05.11.20 at 8:09 am

#258 KNOW IT ALL on 05.11.20 at 2:09 am
“If you’re in the luckiest 1 percent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 percent.”

—Warren BUFFETT—

———

Yawn.

And…moving on.

#276 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.11.20 at 8:11 am

@@229 farmerClem
“yawwwn, more anecdotal nonsense from fartz.”
+++

Glad I could help with your insomnia…now get back to shoveling out the sty.

#277 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.11.20 at 8:16 am

@#254 Sail Oy-Vey
“deer, moose, pheasants, grouse, salmon and halibut. ”
++++
Well, If they let us city folk cull the endless Canada Geese that infest every park , golf course and highway boulevard….. I’ll fashion up a bow and arrows and head out to Stanley Park.
Then again your dogs are probably nice and lean…….

#278 SunShowers on 05.11.20 at 8:18 am

#196 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:43 pm
I suspect that they average joe in the past could accumulate more money, not because the level of financial literacy was different, but because the economic system at that time enabled them to accumulate more wealth from their earnings.

You suspect correctly. 40 years ago, wage growth still tracked gains in labor productivity. That stopped shortly afterwards.

#214 red_falcon on 05.10.20 at 9:33 pm
giving money to the people just provides a disincentive to them. If they have money, they have no need to do anything else.

A UBI of $2000 per month will cover food, utilities, rent for a 1 bedroom apartment (but not in GTA/Van), with maybe a small amount left over. The overwhelming majority of people want a standard of living that extends beyond this bare minimum needed to survive, and for that they will happily work.

Also, this being a personal finance blog, I wonder what your thoughts are on having a portfolio large enough that you can live off passive income alone (financial independence), or even the thought of retirement as a whole? Your ideology of what is “proper” seems to make no distinction between UBI recipients and others who are able to live without working. Or is do you only think it’s bad when poor people are idle?

#246 jane24 on 05.11.20 at 12:01 am
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.

That’s actually the problem with capitalism. After cutting wages, and outsourcing/automating away all the good paying local jobs, there is nobody left who can afford what the capitalist is selling.

#249 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 12:14 am
Well, I employ 20-some people. If the tax climate here becomes onerous, I will definitely relocate head office. So, yeah, I think there’s something to it.
Who do you think creates jobs, Jeff? The poor?

Your customers create the jobs for your workers, and those customers are themselves workers at other businesses. So, it’s workers in general who create jobs.

#279 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.11.20 at 8:23 am

@#242 air canada
“wouldn’t it be better for them to receive no bail out and just let them sink ?”
++++

While I like the way you think…..
May I suggest we cut CBC loose and let them swim on their own first? Send those billions in tax dollars over to air canuckdah
We could then look at Air Canada in a year or two after that.

#280 Anon in Timmins on 05.11.20 at 8:32 am

#222 hey on 05.10.20 at 9:49 pm
@#195 Anon in Timmins on 05.10.20 at 8:41 pm
I am going to start out by saying most of the comments on here focus on the extreme ends of reality, ie, what you see day in day out in the MSM. I think we need to focus our attention between the extremes, where a majority of people tend to live. The monetary system is used as a way to allocate resources. It is supported merely by the trust we place in the system.
__________________________________

WHO THE HELL LET THIS GUY IN HERE?
no voices of reason allowed!
us blogdogs only deal in broad generalizations, conspiracy theories and black and white speak.
______________________________________

Thanks for the chuckle. The comment section here is quite unlike anything ive seen on the financial blogs i read. I will behave myself from now on. Black and white.

#281 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.11.20 at 8:36 am

@#266 WestCdn
“Where is global warming as this year looks to be short a few growing days.”
+++

Keep heading further west canadian.
BC is smashing heat records all over the Province.
Squamish 30.1 c, Victoria 28 c, Vancouver 27 c. on Sunday.
Victoria’s Saturday heat record went back to the 1870’s
But most all time high temp records set in 2019 for May 10th were broken again yesterday….seems like an upward temp trend to me.

#282 MF on 05.11.20 at 8:40 am

265 Toronto_CA on 05.11.20 at 4:18 am

Yeah that article was written by an individual. So I wouldn’t pay any attention to it.

Also, she cites a source at the bottom that could be described as biased.

Moreover, if we want to apply provincial rates to Canada’s tax rates, we can apply the same logic to other countries who might have lower Jurisdiction taxes too.

The point of my original post: Canadian tax rates aren’t the highest, corporate tax rates are falling, taxes don’t determine prosperity alone, inequality is rising despite lower corporate taxes -all still ring true.

MF

#283 Ballingsford on 05.11.20 at 8:48 am

#271 James
—–
A record must be registered somewhere.

House purchased in 1995. Say for $100,000. You put $100,000 into it, add or subtract $50,000 if you like.

So capital gain would be on 1.1 million. Take off 50% and you owe about 50% on $550,000.

Around $250,000 +.

#284 JUST LQQKING on 05.11.20 at 8:50 am

RE;101….UBI would pull everybody above the poverty level.
really?….so everyone gets $1000 and we’ve wiped out poverty?…we all know the price of a loaf of bread is linked to the amount of income the majority of the folks have at their disposal…very simple formula…income goes up…bread goes up

#285 John in Mtl on 05.11.20 at 8:51 am

#245 rookie57 on 05.10.20 at 11:54 pm

Some people seem to think that if we tax corporations more, everything would be great.

And they also forget that corporations are there to make money; if the cost of doing business increases, they simply pass on the aded costs to the customer. Things go south when the customers can no longer pay the cost of whatever they buy. People fail to see this.

#286 James on 05.11.20 at 8:52 am

#18 Millenial Realist

Here’s another big change coming: transactional taxation will replace income tax and instead put much smaller, more efficient taxes on every transaction.

————-

That is called a CONSUMPTION TAX and several countries in the world impose consumption taxation instead of income tax.

It has it’s benefits and of course, many negative aspects.

#287 Sue on 05.11.20 at 8:54 am

Money has wings, thats all you need to remember regarding ubi. Careful what you wish for, government worker jobs would evaporate. Poof!

#288 Remembrancer on 05.11.20 at 8:54 am

Coming late to the comment party here, but, not only the justified face palms about using CERB to buy dirt bikes and what looks like a full set of FOX gear for the kiddie, I’d see the story here as basic poor reporting…

Where is the obvious follow up question about what is she going to use in July to feed herself and the kids in this otherwise pretty good slice of Canadiana?

Jeez…

At least a distraction from the CPC committing ritual self-immolation on Twitter…

#289 TurnerNation on 05.11.20 at 8:55 am

#255 SWL thanks good to see you back.
I know nothing..I just Pay Attention.
The ‘news’ is nothing more than predictive programming. Once you get that it all makes sense.
Last year which stories did they sell us on?
– Ghost Kitchens. Check. Only takeout is allowed now.
– Delivery Apps. See above.
– Large Grocery stores began offering online ordering and store pickup. Check. We got that now.
– Vegan: I saw Streetcars totally wrapped in go vegan advertising messages. Who paid for all this? Our elites..
– Now we see the next step: Only meat plants being shut down. The concept of a virus is a tool, a mind one.

– Within a month they got people using military terms. You heard of Vectors, Victor? Detention camp lines are in effect, when you go shopping people with clipboards yell at you, control your behavior. Food rationing is close.

– This weekend I saw long lines outside liquor, beer stores. Of course those plants will not be shut down.
– Look the entire Earth fell to a takeover in one month. Get over it; the next 10 years will bring more of the same. Weak are being culled imo,and people are cheering it on.
– These zany news stores about famous people are only egging it on. Keep the ruse going.

#290 CanadIain on 05.11.20 at 8:56 am

They key to living smartly in this day and age is to be mobile. That means owning no real estate. Justin wants you rooted to the soil so he can tax the hell out of you to send gibs to his voters. Don’t fall for his trap.

Be mobile. Be free. If Justin gets even crazier then up sticks and move to a jurisdiction that treats you well.

Read the book The Sovereign Individual: Mastering the Transition to the Information Age. It’s an oldie but a goodie.

#291 John in Mtl on 05.11.20 at 8:59 am

#236 Ballingsford on 05.10.20 at 10:45 pm

Maybe the earth is culling itself. It happens to animals all the time when their numbers get too large.

And that, folks, is the very heart of the problem: too many people.

India and china should step up their efforts on educating their populations about birth control and finite resources. Good luck trying to convince china though; they want to take over the world and they may well succeed if we keep sending them our money, and it they keep breeding like rabbits and spread to the 4 corners of the world.

#292 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 9:01 am

194 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:41 pm sez:

“@#175 Bytor
These guys might not be “tradesmen” per say but possibly Power Engineers “operators” OR they have been bumped up from their trade into a supervisor position….
I have a cousin who works for Ontario Hydro , very high up, making huge coin, started out years ago as a pipefitter but he has brains and is a very hard worker….so, apparently, he stood out like a sore thumb at Ont. Hydro. , promotion after promotion , voila!
He da man makin’ big dinero keepin the lights on in Terrana.
He cant wait to retire and get the frack back east.”
———————————————————
I know and suspected that and he confirmed it. Mu problem is that he misrepresented them as “paper pushers making 150k, half the work for double the money” in his original post.

Meanwhile these are highly qualified individuals with lots of responsibility who work lots of OT to get to that lofty figure.

#293 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 9:03 am

#271 James on 05.11.20 at 7:23 am
#198 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:48 pm

… a cap tax on RE gains would be simple to execute. – Garth

Since everything is running on computers now, to tax any gain on any non-cash financial transaction is no problem to execute.
—————–
You are both incorrect.

It would not be simple to implement a capital gains tax on real estate transactions. Here’s a simple (real) example:
——

I don’t think the plan is to tax folks who have owned and lived in their houses for decades.

Based on what was said of a possible CG tax on PR, it was like a sliding rate up to 5 years or so, after which the CG tax rate starts declining to zero.

I don’t think that would be too hard to figure out. Frankly I hope they do it. Nail the buy and flip in 2-3 years specuvestors, then ease it off as years of ownership stack up.

#294 akashic record on 05.11.20 at 9:07 am

#283 Ballingsford on 05.11.20 at 8:48 am
#271 James

In countries, where they charge RE gain tax, the rate gradually decreases every year, and becomes 0% if the property was purchased 15-20 years or more.

#295 James on 05.11.20 at 9:08 am

#283 Ballingsford on 05.11.20 at 8:48 am

#271 James
—–
A record must be registered somewhere.

House purchased in 1995. Say for $100,000. You put $100,000 into it, add or subtract $50,000 if you like.

So capital gain would be on 1.1 million. Take off 50% and you owe about 50% on $550,000.

Around $250,000 +.
————
“A record must be registered somewhere”

So tell me more about this mysterious “record” registered “somewhere”. Did someone break in and appraise my homes value when I inherited it?

“You put $100,000 into it, add or subtract $50,000 if you like.”

So I get to “GUESS” what my overall cost was?

AWESOME….I can come up with all the B.S. costs (unverifiable over 25 years of course, but SO WHAT) that I want in order to create a guesstimated capital loss!

Good thinking!

Not.

#296 TurnerNation on 05.11.20 at 9:09 am

By the way if the idea of a UN takeover seems impossible, keep in mind we have no sitting parlament nor even
Courts open. Why are they being kept closed without timeline for re-opening? There is a reason.
People are being distracted with the golf courses opening.

#297 John in Mtl on 05.11.20 at 9:10 am

…”Like the 29-year old Ontario mom, Melanie, using the $2,000-per-month CERB to buy her kids dirt bikes. – Garth”

The T2 gov’t should look into this (and all other similar waste of tax dollars) and take the money back with interest. If Melanie had any integrity, she should have refrained from taking this money.

I find it totally appaling and unacceptable that my tax money should be used this way. The gov’t was cool enough to make sure nobody was going to fall on hard times on account of the pandemic and at least have enough to eat and keep a roof over their heads while this storm passes.

Where are people’s honour, integrity, responsibility and good citizenship?

#298 TurnerNation on 05.11.20 at 9:22 am

Did I just write ‘ culling the weak’? What’s this then the New Normal? For Lost but not leased, et al.
They will no longer try and save you. Yep the virus did that too.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/10/nyregion/paramedics-cpr-coronavirus.html?

“NEWARK — The calls for patients in cardiac arrest came in one after another.

A 39-year-old man, followed by a 65-year-old, whose neighbor called 911 after getting no response when he rang the doorbell. Then a 52-year-old woman’s heart stopped, as did that of a 90-year-old, who had collapsed on her bedroom floor.

The ambulances turned on their sirens and screamed through red lights. But what the paramedics did after rushing to the victims — or more precisely, what they did not do — is a window into how a deadly virus has reshaped emergency medicine. After confirming that the patients’ hearts had flatlined, they declared each of them dead at the scene, without attempting CPR.

#299 Ballingsford on 05.11.20 at 9:24 am

# 295 James.

It’s a capital gain, not a loss. You dont pay tax on a loss. And yes, a guesstimate is ok. Friends don’t split hairs over $50,000.

#300 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 9:25 am

#249 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 12:14 am

Well, I employ 20-some people. If the tax climate here becomes onerous, I will definitely relocate head office. So, yeah, I think there’s something to it.

Who do you think creates jobs, Jeff? The poor?

—————–

#278 SunShowers on 05.11.20 at 8:18 am

Your customers create the jobs for your workers, and those customers are themselves workers at other businesses. So, it’s workers in general who create jobs.

—————–

Oh, ok. Thanks for the lesson.

#301 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 9:29 am

231 Sold Out on 05.10.20 at 10:26 pm
You know who will benefit from UBI?

Women, that’s who. Stay at home Moms, caregivers of elderly relatives, jobs that are more than full-time hours and consist of actual work. Hard, dirty, physically and emotionally demanding labour that attracts no pay, and no respect.

It is long past due for the women, and sometimes the men, who have performed this unpaid labour to be compensated.
——

Much more lucrative in Canada to marry up, have 4-5 kids, then get divorced. I know of one Woman who did this and is taking home 50k year tax free between Trudeau and the ex.

If the plan is to allow UBI on top of CCB, child support and alimony, then I’m going to get a sex change and start looking for a rich hubby.

I’m 6’-3”, 225 lbs, Orc like disposition, but l still look good without makeup – any rich male dogs here interested?

#302 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 9:31 am

https://nationalpost.com/news/most-canadians-willing-to-adhere-to-new-normal-rules-like-wearing-masks-and-physical-distancing-poll?video_autoplay=true

Canadians really are sheep. Hey Garth, I have an idea for a blog dog poll.

#303 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.11.20 at 9:31 am

@#297 John in Mtl
“I find it totally appaling and unacceptable that my tax money should be used this way. ”
+++
A teardrop in the ocean.
And yet, while Quebec turns its nose up at Oil they gladly accept “equalization” payments in the billion$$$ per year from the western Provinces that pay into it.

#304 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 9:37 am

#236 Ballingsford on 05.10.20 at 10:45 pm

Maybe the earth is culling itself. It happens to animals all the time when their numbers get too large.

—————

You’re assuming we humans are so important that the Earth- the Earth!- is actually concerned about us?

To the actual Earth, we and everything else on the planet’s surface are no more impactful than the tiniest microscopic film of algae.

Such arrogance as a species. So easily shattered.

#305 Whats going on? on 05.11.20 at 9:39 am

Although I cant watch or listen to our PM anymore I recall from a while back that there is never a Canadian flag near him when he speaks to us at the morning briefings. Most all other leaders have flags that they self-identify with. It would be most interesting to ask this readership Who or what master do they think he serves?

#306 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 9:39 am

#297 John in Mtl on 05.11.20 at 9:10 am
…”Like the 29-year old Ontario mom, Melanie, using the $2,000-per-month CERB to buy her kids dirt bikes. – Garth”

The T2 gov’t should look into this (and all other similar waste of tax dollars) and take the money back with interest. If Melanie had any integrity, she should have refrained from taking this money.

I find it totally appaling and unacceptable that my tax money should be used this way. The gov’t was cool enough to make sure nobody was going to fall on hard times on account of the pandemic and at least have enough to eat and keep a roof over their heads while this storm passes.

Where are people’s honour, integrity, responsibility and good citizenship?

—-

There’s a lesson for you here Mr. John. If the government starts throwing money around like confetti, folks will pick it all up, even if they don’t need it. Free money always has some use to pretty much everyone.

High school kids who live at home with their parents are collecting the CERB right now.

If I handed you ten grand and said “here take this, no need to pay it back”, would you turn me down because you’ve already got enough to pay your bills?

The problem isn’t with the people.

#307 JB on 05.11.20 at 9:40 am

#272 Steve French on 05.11.20 at 7:23 am

Smoking Man…

You ok?

Send us an update dude…

Steve
………………………………………………………
He only comes here once in a while with a short blurb.
He does tweet on twitter but only re-tweets mostly.
He has gone quite lately, hopefully he will pop out when this thing is over and we have the beer meet with him. I surmise he is here in the GTA somewhere hunkering down as he is getting some treatments for his ailment.

#308 Piano_Man87 on 05.11.20 at 9:46 am

Garth, it’s time for your op-ed for the Globe on how the UBI is unfundable. I was on board with UBI until you started talking numbers. Now it’s clear it makes no sense and we should stay away from it.

#309 Phylis on 05.11.20 at 9:47 am

We have welfare systems in place. What i’m hearing here is a bunch of whiny children saying, ‘I don’t qualify, this is so unfair’.
Good choices bring good results. Teaching begins at home, now more than ever.

#310 Dharma Bum on 05.11.20 at 9:52 am

#68 Millennial Realist

Be part of the change.
——————————————————————–

Change, if and when it comes (most likely “when”), will be a direct factor of time.

Only those that are still alive will be a “part of” it.

Once it actually comes, being a part of it will not be a choice. It will just be.

Change will be strongly and successfully resisted as long as those that currently have the power and resources to prevent it from happening remain in that position of financial and political strength.

They will not be unseated any time soon.

So, the “change” that is inevitably coming, will arrive at a glacial pace. Once it dawns on everyone that it is here, it will seem like it occurred “overnight”.

Of the cohort currently referred to as “boomers”, few, if any, will be around to witness this change. We’ll be gone.

Of the later generations – the children and grandchildren of boomers – it’s most likely the only grandchildren will be affected by the “change”, for better or worse. Who knows?

If you need to put things in perspective, figure on at least 30 to 50 years before the way things in the future are meaningfully and perceptively any different from the way they are now, if at all.

I’m sorry to break it to you, but humans have a way of ensuring the prevalence of elitism, superiority, power, tribalism, and separateness.

Regardless of technological breakthroughs (which have been occurring on one form or another since the dawn of mankind), there will never be a utopian dreamworld in which we all simply get along, love one another, share our collective wealth fairly, and treat each other with respect.

Territorial wars, conquering, colonization, enslavement, thirst for power, amassing of wealth, control, and the striving for superiority is in our DNA.

Whoever figures out a way to get the upper hand will control those that don’t – economically, physically, psychologically, sexually, and behaviourally.

This is the animal that we are.

Looking for change? Good luck.

#311 Mr Canada on 05.11.20 at 9:57 am

Never forgot when my Dad who saved his whole life was recovering in Hospital and had to pay $150 a day waiting for a Long Term Care Bed and the guy sharing the room had 3-4 kids somewhere, two broken marriages and bragged how he never really worked much his entire life and relied on the “teat” of the public. His bed of course was free.

#312 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 10:01 am

#226 hey on 05.10.20 at 10:04 pm

looks like melanie is taking a page out of IHCTD9’s book. Maybe melanie is in fact mrs. IHCTD9??
— ——

Here at the IHCTD9 bunker complex, the word is YAMAHA.

The bikes Mel bought for her kids are Apollo BSE Chinese built garbage machines. These can be bought for 900.00 brand new. They will not run a year from now, and will sell on Kijiji as parts machines for 1-200.00/ea.

I spend my free government money on quality Japanese built machines only.

#313 Dr V on 05.11.20 at 10:02 am

247 fused – a well composed response! Thanks

#314 Former Navy Chief on 05.11.20 at 10:04 am

Unbelievable! Buying dirt bikes for your kids is not what the CERB was intended for! (Yes, I know I ended a sentence with a preposition, but I’m just too angry to give a sh!t!)

After 9 years I am still fighting the government (Veterans Affairs) for fair compensations for Military service-related medical conditions and injuries, which will surely be a pittance if I’m successful, but people can use the CERB for frivolous purchases?

We’ll all have to pay for this eventually through increased income tax! The only free cheese is in the trap!

UNACCEPTABLE!

#315 Dr V on 05.11.20 at 10:09 am

257 butterfy(?) – sounds like negative income tax. Google it.

#316 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 10:10 am

#224 you a bad dad on 05.10.20 at 9:58 pm
@#174 IHCTD9 on 05.10.20 at 7:51 pm
#163 you a bad dad on 05.10.20 at 10:45 am
@#96 IHCTD9 on 05.09.20 at 7:43 pm
#87 Joseph R. on 05.09.20 at 6:29 pm

Nobody is preventing you from running for public office.
——

Everyone should be trying to get a govy job….

It’s why I’m gently guiding my kids towards public sector work. It just keeps getting juicier, and juicier with no end in sight. Once they’re in, no worries – ever. The gravy train won’t end until the IMF is called in.
______________________________________

Willfully pushing your kids to take the path of least resistance? Sad. hopefully your kids are smarter than you.
——

That’s right. So you encourage your kids to get a PHD in Basket Weaving, and I’ll let my kids know that they might be best off doing whatever they choose to do – for the government.

My kids are pretty smart, they know they only get what they give, which is good for places like the Food Bank, which in turn will be good for your kids.
______________________________

not only are you a bad dad, you’re an ignorant one.
thats probably worse.

—- –

Your kids are going to starve to death:

https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/basket-weaver/united-states

#317 Dharma Bum on 05.11.20 at 10:12 am

Garth,

I noticed you deleted a Flop comment for using a mock name for a Canadian leader.

Did he call one of our leaders the “Elfin Deity”, or “Mr.Socks”?

What is off limits?

Just asking…..

#318 Dharma Bum on 05.11.20 at 10:18 am

Re: CERB for Dirtbikes

The government assumes that we are all fiscally responsible people, so sends cash to us directly in the hope that we will use it prudently.

Silly government. If we were financially responsible, we wouldn’t be headed to the poorhouse after a couple of bad weeks.

CERB and other forms of welfare should not be put directly into the hands of those who require it. It should go to the landlords who are being stiffed due to non payment of rent, and to the other creditors to whom those that are receiving CERB should be paying.

Bills should be submitted, and the money can go directly towards those obligations – not toys.

Unless it’s for a Harley.

Vroom-vroom.

#319 WAKEUP on 05.11.20 at 10:30 am

#297 John in Mtl

How about applying that logic to everyone that took advantage of the money for nothing and bought booze, drugs, you name it…
Or do you set the bar at a certain height?
It’s a naive statement, prisons are full all over the planet, and those are just the people that got caught.

#320 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 10:44 am

#292 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 9:01 am
194 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:41 pm sez:

“@#175 Bytor
These guys might not be “tradesmen” per say but possibly Power Engineers “operators” OR they have been bumped up from their trade into a supervisor position….
I have a cousin who works for Ontario Hydro , very high up, making huge coin, started out years ago as a pipefitter but he has brains and is a very hard worker….so, apparently, he stood out like a sore thumb at Ont. Hydro. , promotion after promotion , voila!
He da man makin’ big dinero keepin the lights on in Terrana.
He cant wait to retire and get the frack back east.”
———————————————————
I know and suspected that and he confirmed it. Mu problem is that he misrepresented them as “paper pushers making 150k, half the work for double the money” in his original post.

Meanwhile these are highly qualified individuals with lots of responsibility who work lots of OT to get to that lofty figure.
——-

Uh, Bytor?

Go read #228…

They push paper.

#321 John in Mtl on 05.11.20 at 10:45 am

@ #298 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 9:39 am

…”The problem isn’t with the people.”

You have a point, but my point about honour and integrity still stands. I think this is a different situation.

If you offered me money as a gift, that would be fine and I would thank you for your kindness. I would also stealthily scrutinize your motive before accepting your gift since we are strangers to one another – in other words: “why, what’s in it for you”.

#322 Damifino on 05.11.20 at 10:50 am

#297 John in Mtl

Where are people’s honour, integrity, responsibility and good citizenship?
———————————

On the contrary John, I think we owe the dirt bike lady a debt of gratitude. She’s used Main Stream Media to provide us with a sober glimpse into the human tendency to make silly purchases with unexpected money.

What she lacks in ethics, she compensates for in the recognition of zero-risk short term opportunity. Society should do what it can to prevent such opportunists from becoming fixed budget expenditures in the long term.

Of course, her deeper aim may have been an honest attempt to support our domestic dirt bike industry.

But somehow I doubt it.

#323 John in Mtl on 05.11.20 at 10:52 am

#302 Dharma Bum on 05.11.20 at 9:52 am

…”I’m sorry to break it to you, but humans have a way of ensuring the prevalence of elitism, superiority, power, tribalism, and separateness. …”

Yep, unfortunate but that’s the way we are. So far, only war has ever been able to change this *temporarily* but it always reverts back to bringing out some of the worse traits of humanity.

#324 Faron on 05.11.20 at 10:59 am

291 John in Mtl on 05.11.20 at 8:59 am

“…India and china should step up their efforts on educating their populations about birth control…”

Ha ha ha. Did you forget that China, until fairly recently, had a strict one child per family rule? Now it has a two child policy. I wouldn’t call that a failure of birth control.

If you want to reduce the birth rate, educate and promote the status of women, don’t shove birth control down anyone’s throat. India has a long ways to go.

As for Melanie. You guys double standard much? You complain about her spending the money however she pleases while many here said they would take CERB despite not needing it/having a job. And some even would invest it in equities essentially piping the dollars across the planet (a planet that you don’t seem to care much for I might add). WTF? You will also claim, with pride, how you evaded paying tens of thousands in taxes and then get whiny when some of someone else’s (someone elses because you didn’t pay your fair share) tax money gets spent in a way you don’t like.

By whinng about Melanie, you are also forgetting that a major purpose of stimulus is to keep the economy flowing. The gov’t doesn’t give a rats arse about individual citizens as much as it doesn’t want an economic collapse. It doesn’t matter much what you spend the CERB dollars on as long as you spend it in the local market economy.

Good to see this place is still a wasteland of Fox News talking points.

https://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/blitts-kvetchbook/dont-tread-on-me

Can’t stay away. eh? – Garth

#325 Yukon Elvis on 05.11.20 at 10:59 am

#252 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 12:38 am

We’re busy looking at places we might like to live for a minimum of 183 days/year. Hawaii, California, Oregon, Colorado, Arizona are all on the list. Flagstaff seems to be leading right now.
……………………………………………….

I did the same. Just a carry-on backpack,ipad, phone, and wallet. I buy what i need when i get there and leave it behind when i move on. Thirty days in a country/ island/ city in a hotel and then on to the next one. Always something new to see. I love backpacking in the tropics. I have seen some amazing things, and experienced different cultures and ways of life.

#326 Sail Away on 05.11.20 at 11:01 am

#224 you a bad dad on 05.10.20 at 9:58 pm

———–

Really? IH is a bad dad because he chooses to impart knowledge to his kids while providing for all their needs?

How old are you? 12 or so?

#327 Premiere dewalt on 05.11.20 at 11:06 am

#317 Dharma Bum on 05.11.20 at 10:12 am
Garth,

I noticed you deleted a Flop comment for using a mock name for a Canadian leader.

Did he call one of our leaders the “Elfin Deity”, or “Mr.Socks”?

What is off limits?

Just asking…..

Yeah what’s up with that…..

Calling a leader a ‘deity’ whether it’s diminutive or not, is fine by me. Talking about clothing is okay, when it’s so worn overtly. Deliberately misspelling a person’s name to be crude or cruel is not. How is this difficult to understand? – Garth

#328 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 11:10 am

#320 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 10:44 am sez, in part:
——-

“Uh, Bytor?

Go read #228…

They push paper.”
——————————–
I made another post to respond to this but Garth deleted it as apparently he HATES golf references.

Anyway, they get paid not for pushing paper, but for their responsibilities for staff and regulatory compliance and for the qualifications they carry. Plus as you said they work OT. Just because a job isn’t physically hard doesn’t mean it’s not stressful or demanding, or that the job is overpaid.

#329 BrianT on 05.11.20 at 11:17 am

#317Dharma-explaining that the UBI program is designed to benefit billionaires is definitely off limits.

#330 Jeff on 05.11.20 at 11:18 am

Dirt bikes? Holy hell. I’m literally at a loss for words.

As if it’s not hard enough for many of us still working in this environment, we have to sit back and watch our tax dollars buy unemployed people dirt bikes, as they sit at home and collect their free money. If you want a recipe for destroyed productivity, this is it. Have no consequences for overspending or job loss. And watch as everyone sits home and gets fat on the couch forever.

________________________________

So, just because one family buys dirt bikes for their kids this constitutes a trend? ever heard of anecdotal evidence? this is a news story which was designed to attack UBS….show some real stats Garth

#331 Dominoes Lining Up on 05.11.20 at 11:23 am

Wonder if Doug Ford can apply for a provincial “Super CERB”? That should solve everything, eh.

Looks like the provincial deficit will be epic – quadrupling this year.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/05/11/ontario-deficit-coronavirus-costs/

#332 Wrk.dover on 05.11.20 at 11:26 am

Early Saturday evening, secret handshake insider Larry Summers, the mother of zero interest forever, was on CNN chatting up the situation.

Larry summers said this. “We are three times as much in trouble as 2008, and if we can recover 66% of it, we are still at 2009”. Or something to that effect, then the screen went black, Wolfie said, “oh I guess we lost the connection, so that is all from him”.

Reminded me of last time I saw David Stockman on Squawk quite some time ago, talking of his disfunction kink, “we will be back after a commercial with our guest for the morning”.

He was gone after that break, with no mention of where.

I would have posted sooner, but am embarrassed that CNN was on, especially Saturday evening.

#333 BillyBob on 05.11.20 at 11:29 am

#242 Air canada on 05.10.20 at 11:09 pm
Hi Garth, if air Canada gets a bail out from Trudeau, wouldn’t it be better for them to receive no bail out and just let them sink ? I don’t want my taxes going to AC
Thanks
Regan

==================================================

lol

If Air Canada (or any other company with 33,000 employees) “sinks”, your taxes will DEFINITELY be going to them in the form of social welfare. And will have to replace the tax revenue lost from their unemployment. Perhaps you may wish to have another think about it all, hmmm?

Also. A small prayer.

“Dear _favourite deity here_,

Once again, I thank thee, as I do on a nigh-daily basis, and fall to my knees in humble gratitude, that I never, ever repatriated one penny of my modest expatriate net worth back to Canada to be exposed to the likes of a Trudeau regime, so that it may one day be redistributed to legions of wonderful individuals like Melanie-the-dim.

Now, dear _favourite deity here_, please just re-open the borders of the EU countries, that I may take my leave of the crumbling led-by-donkeys delusional wannabe former empire known as the (for now, barely, United) Kingdom.

Amen.”

#334 akashic record on 05.11.20 at 11:35 am

#180 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.10.20 at 8:12 pm

@#158 Akashic
“But what happened to your friend’s son, who always excelled academically.”

Wrong address, I am afraid.

#335 Re-Cowtown on 05.11.20 at 11:40 am

So now T2 wants to link enegry sector support to firms showing him their emissions reductions plans.

T2 is disgusting. No better than Elizabeth May; exploiting a national crisis for his own pathetic political gain.

It makes one wonder what he would have tried to sneak through after Pearl Harbour.

#336 IHCTD9 on 05.11.20 at 11:54 am

#278 SunShowers on 05.11.20 at 8:18 am

#246 jane24 on 05.11.20 at 12:01 am
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.

That’s actually the problem with capitalism. After cutting wages, and outsourcing/automating away all the good paying local jobs, there is nobody left who can afford what the capitalist is selling

—- – —-

That is exactly what will strike the balance between sellers and buyers. AI and Automation will eventually make most human labour obsolete, and frankly, that is a good thing.

Before that happens though, consumer goods will get ludicrously cheap, because they will have to in order to actually sell and make a profit. If selling at a profit becomes impossible, manufacturing will shrink to suit.

The role of technological advancement also plays a role. A massive new energy source (nuclear fusion/anti-matter etc.) would change all the rules. A development like a replicatior ( a la Star Trek, it’s not impossible, it’s just not possible right now) would essentially turn the current system upside down.

I like to think on what the future may bring, and I see some tantalizing possibilities. Every time in human history when humans needed to spend less time on the essentials of life, technology and standards of living got better.

There could come a day where food (via replicator) and shelter (via 3D printed homes) are trivial concerns. Where life becomes one’s own to live without 40 hours labour per week dedicated to providing the essentials.

Stepping outside economics, our ability to harness energy will be the critical breakthrough. What is actually happening is our transition from a type 0, to a type 1 Civilization. This has been calculated to be effective around 2100. Energy will be near free at this point, if we make it.

One last note, many theoretical physicists have acknowledged there might be a critical hurdle facing any civilization trying to make a leap from type 0 to type 1. This is evidenced by our (thus far) complete lack of contact with any extra terrestrial intelligent life, which is basically impossible given the age and scale of the Universe. It should be teeming with life. Someone should have been here by now. It is totally improbable that there has been no / are no type 0 civilizations other than us. It is much more likely that type 1 is near impossible to achieve. The thought is that once a civilization develops the technology to commit planetary wide desolation, that this is what must happen.

So, in the end no worries. According to theoretical physicists, we either sail into a future of limitless energy and a life tasked to purely individual pursuits, or we all go up in an incandescent mushroom cloud leaving a dead irradiated planet as our legacy. This should be an interesting century…

#337 MF on 05.11.20 at 11:56 am

#310 Dharma Bum on 05.11.20 at 9:52

Hi there millennial here.

I usually don’t defend MR, because I think they are a bit of a troll but,

Your opinion is hugely cynical and flat out incorrect.

There is an “inner animal” in we humans, yes, but to think we are governed by it and have little or no control over it is false. MR seems to be talking about economic change and progress. After all, this is a financial blog (I think). That change is happening yes, but nowhere as drastically and quick as MR says.

However,

Social change is occurring. Society is not the same as it was 2 decades ago, or prior. The big inflection point was world war 2. In its wake society as a whole has improved immensely. There is less war and more cooperation than ever before. MR could correct in that stance.

MF

#338 Don Guillermo on 05.11.20 at 11:58 am

#248 Flanneur on 05.11.20 at 12:07 am
The arguments for ubi are good. Would I trust Trudeau with this, no way. I assume eventually there will be some form of a basic income but our system is nowhere near ready for it. Could be good the arts:)
***************************************
Here at the IHCTD9 bunker complex, the word is YAMAHA.
*****************************************
If UBI was around $7000/mos (maybe make it USD equivalent) then every one could sit around trying to sell each other shitty pottery or baskets and people like poor Melanie could actually afford to get her kids proper Yamaha bikes. Sounds simple enough. And maybe the odd Van Gough would pop up for Marco.

#339 Dr V on 05.11.20 at 12:01 pm

286 James – no, it is on all financial transactions. Buy stocks? Pay a tax (very small, less than 1%). Make a direct deposit to pay an employee? Pay the tax.

#340 Mike Stellants on 05.11.20 at 12:16 pm

The $70B figure for UBI is a MONTHLY number, not annual. Think about it. 35M Canadians * $2000/month = $70B/month. This is $840B/yr.

The total Canadian government annual revenues are $320B.

Implementing UBI on those over 18? There’s about 30M so that would be $60B/month or $720B/yr. That’s twice the entire gov’t budget.

The math doesn’t work ppl without dramatic tax changes.

#168 – I like this idea, that could possibly work.

#341 kc on 05.11.20 at 12:18 pm

Never let a good crisis go to waste….

I am still in the camp that this is all a smoke screen for larger problems in the financial system. If companies are not in operation, they need less money, credit to be in operations. Now T2 is giving short term loans to big corporations.

Can any one see the dots falling into place here?

this long read will explain what I have said a few times on this platform. It is a credit crisis and not a VIRUS problem. The REPO market crashed and this is how the world responded.

cheers

REPO EXPLAINED….

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/01/28/what-is-the-repo-market-and-why-does-it-matter/

concluded with ….

What has the Fed done in response to the COVID-19 crisis?

Since the outbreak of COVID-19, the Fed has vastly expanded the scope of its repo operations to funnel cash to money markets. The Fed’s facility makes cash available to the primary dealers in exchange for Treasury and other government-backed securities. Before coronavirus turmoil hit the market, the Fed was offering $100 billion in overnight repo and $20 billion in two-week repo. It ramped up the operations on 
March 9, offering $175 billion in overnight and $45 billion in two-week repo. Then, on 
March 12, the Fed announced a huge expansion. It is now on a weekly basis offering repo at much longer terms: $500 billion for one-month repo and $500 billion for three months. 
On March 17, at least for a time, it also greatly increased overnight repo offered. The Fed said that these liquidity operations aimed to “address highly unusual disruptions in Treasury financing markets associated with the coronavirus outbreak.” In short, the Fed is now willing to loan what is essentially an unlimited amount of money to the markets, and uptake has fallen well below amounts offered.

#342 Don Guillermo on 05.11.20 at 12:23 pm

Van Gogh – and I could wisely use the extra time to practise my spelling of Dutch names

#343 Mike Stellants on 05.11.20 at 12:23 pm

Personally I love dirtbiking and have 2. For about $7000 they bring me many days of happiness each year and while expensive up front, a day of dirtbiking costs maybe $20 of gas (incl transport) which is a lot cheaper than say skiing, boating or a lot of other leisure activities.

That said, I saved my money and paid for mine. My tax dollars shouldn’t be paying for other peoples poor fiscal management.

#344 Howard on 05.11.20 at 12:31 pm

#305 Whats going on? on 05.11.20 at 9:39 am
Although I cant watch or listen to our PM anymore I recall from a while back that there is never a Canadian flag near him when he speaks to us at the morning briefings. Most all other leaders have flags that they self-identify with. It would be most interesting to ask this readership Who or what master do they think he serves?

———————————-

Like any globalist he does not serve the citizens of the country he ostensibly represents. Let’s see what job he’s given when he leaves office, I think it will be quite telling.

I believe it was Harper who wondered aloud why Trudeau would want to lead a country he dislikes so much. It didn’t come across as Trudeau-bashing, but a genuine question.

#345 SoggyShorts on 05.11.20 at 12:40 pm

#278 SunShowers on 05.11.20 at 8:18 am
#196 akashic record on 05.10.20 at 8:43 pm

#214 red_falcon on 05.10.20 at 9:33 pm
giving money to the people just provides a disincentive to them. If they have money, they have no need to do anything else.

A UBI of $2000 per month will cover food, utilities, rent for a 1 bedroom apartment (but not in GTA/Van), with maybe a small amount left over. The overwhelming majority of people want a standard of living that extends beyond this bare minimum needed to survive, and for that they will happily work.
*******
I feel like there is a whole generation that has never heard of roommates.
Get 4 friends and live like GANGSTERS on 10G a month.
Or a spouse, whatever.

#346 Sail away on 05.11.20 at 12:48 pm

#1 Hotels on 05.10.20 at 1:01 pm

Imagine your next visit to a hotel.

————-

Haha… let me tell you about Tesla’s disruption to the hotel industry:

I used to stay in hotels. Now I have a Tesla that folds out to a full sleeping area, so rarely bother with hotels on road trips anymore. This saves an amazing amount of logistics, especially when traveling with dogs- drive until you don’t want to anymore, pull over, set the climate control, and snooze until you’re ready to get up.

Perfect in winter as well.

Similar to living on a sailboat. Very pleasant and uncomplicated.

#347 WAKEUP on 05.11.20 at 12:51 pm

#322 Damifino

If she legally meets the criteria then she can do what ever she pleases with the money, regardless of people’s
opinions.

Technically anyone who bought something non essential regardless of the price is equally guilty.
From a pencil up.

#348 srv on 05.11.20 at 12:58 pm

Pierre was a fan 50 years ago…
Evil at its core, but hey I’m a struggling 70 year old born here so get diddly squat (new Canadian kids get more than my OAS after 50 years of taxes… sounds fair right).
I’ll take it and spend it supporting any true conservative if one turns up!

#349 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1:08 pm

Well….just went to the local branch of the National Canadian Hardware chain. Drove 20 km to get there. In order to enter you had to wear a mask. I told them they were sheep and that they were never getting my business again. I am not exaggerating to say I have spent 1000’s of dollars in the store over the last 20 years.

Then I went around the corner to the national building centre chain that is named after a building that has a moat. One person can go inside the door and that’s as far as I could go. Told them I had a list of stuff I needed (Grass seed, paint, etc.) that I had to kinda check out to see what exact kinds I needed. Nope. They would take my list and call me when it was ready. Said no thanks, called him a sheep and left.

Drove down the street to the national Canadian automotive, tire, and hardware store. People were lined up social distance fashion down the whole front of the store. Stayed in the truck. Never did see if I had to wear a mask there.

Finally, frustrated, I sat in the parking lot in my truck, whipped out my phone and said; “Hey Google, call local Big American Building Centre” (which is 20 km in the other direction). Woman answers.

“Hi”, I said, “do I have to wear a mask to come in your store”?

“No”, she says.

“Can I even come in your store”?

“Yes” she says, “see you soon”.

Apparently they get a lot of these calls.

Guess who’s getting my money?

#350 Flop Fan on 05.11.20 at 1:09 pm

DELETED

#351 cramar on 05.11.20 at 1:10 pm

I don’t get the math! If Melanie is making less than $2,000/month at her job and NOT WORKING, how is getting a few hundred a month more from the TEMPORARY CERB suddenly enable her to pay off her credit card and buy all kinds of non-necessities? Specifically two dirt bikes which has to cost a lot?

To me the math doesn’t add up. But maybe the real problem is the Melanie doesn’t do math.

#352 robert on 05.11.20 at 1:28 pm

Welcome to hyperinflation. If the government continually debases currency, our living expenses will be ramped up to absorb the new “piles o cash”. Our sovereignty will be in peril as “bag men” from currency rich enclaves sweep in and buy distressed assets at bargain basement prices; all because the value of our dollar has been destroyed for political expediency.

#353 MF on 05.11.20 at 1:41 pm

#349 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1

Right. So you called a front line worker a “sheep” because she was following the rules?

Stay classy.

MF

#354 kc on 05.11.20 at 1:43 pm

349 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1:08 pm

“Hi”, I said, “do I have to wear a mask to come in your store”?

“No”, she says.

“Can I even come in your store”?

“Yes” she says, “see you soon”.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Cheers… I do the exact same thing. No one needs to grovel to enter a store …

#355 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1:44 pm

#351 cramar on 05.11.20 at 1:10 pm sez:
“I don’t get the math! If Melanie is making less than $2,000/month at her job and NOT WORKING, how is getting a few hundred a month more from the TEMPORARY CERB suddenly enable her to pay off her credit card and buy all kinds of non-necessities? Specifically two dirt bikes which has to cost a lot?

To me the math doesn’t add up. But maybe the real problem is the Melanie doesn’t do math.”
——————————————————-
It is my understanding that to be eligible for CERB you had to file a tax return for 2019 indicating you made a minimum $5000 last year…not even a hundred a week to get the full $2000/mth.

Trudeau screwed up. It shoulda been UP TO $2000/month or your salary whichever is LESS.

#356 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1:57 pm

#353 MF on 05.11.20 at 1:41 pm sez:
“#349 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1

Right. So you called a front line worker a “sheep” because she was following the rules?

Stay classy.

MF”
————————————
No. I called TWO front line workers and the owner of the franchise hardware store who I’ve known for many years “sheep”.

Just like you, sheep.

B-A-A H. B-A-A-H. Run along now you good L’il Canadian you.

#357 Sail away on 05.11.20 at 2:02 pm

#346 Sail away on 05.11.20 at 12:48 pm
#1 Hotels on 05.10.20 at 1:01 pm

Re: Teslas and no more hotels

The one thing I always did enjoy about hotels was writing on the mirror after a shower:

Be careful
They are watching you

#358 Figure it Out on 05.11.20 at 2:04 pm

“Guess who’s getting my money?”

Local fuel retailer named after a game where the customer usually loses his money?

#359 cto on 05.11.20 at 2:06 pm

#351 cramar

“I don’t get the math! If Melanie is making less than $2,000/month at her job and NOT WORKING, how is getting a few hundred a month more from the TEMPORARY CERB suddenly enable her to pay off her credit card and buy all kinds of non-necessities? Specifically two dirt bikes which has to cost a lot?

To me the math doesn’t add up. But maybe the real problem is the Melanie doesn’t do math.”

MAYBE THE REAL PROBLEM IS MELANIE HAS A SOURCE OF INCOME SHE’S NOT MENTIONING, AND AS SUCH, DOESN’T REALLY NEED CERB.????

#360 Flop Fan on 05.11.20 at 2:07 pm

Owe Boy!!

The feds will now offer “bridge loans” to businesses across the country.

Now that is True Dough!

(see, that’s not disrespectful, just accurate, lol)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bridge-financing-big-business-1.5564218

How much of this won’t be paid back?

That’s the $300 billion dollar question……

#361 Alex on 05.11.20 at 2:11 pm

>Gets UBI
>Start working for only cash
>Net more than a 6 figure job while paying less taxes

Ya that seems smart. Or just Encourage people to do nothing either.

It’s basically a lose lose in both directions.

Most will get to a point where high stress/career oriented jobs will be discouraged. One can do basic math and realize they can have a side income and UBI and basically clear the same amount month to month.

#362 cto on 05.11.20 at 2:13 pm

#355 Bytor the Snow Dog
“It is my understanding that to be eligible for CERB you had to file a tax return for 2019 indicating you made a minimum $5000 last year…not even a hundred a week to get the full $2000/mth.

Trudeau screwed up. It shoulda been UP TO $2000/month or your salary whichever is LESS.”

YOU SAID IT BROTHER!!!
NOT EVEN $100 A WEEK! IT HAD TO BE A SCREW-UP IN THEIR PART, MAYBE THROUGH SHEER PANIC! HE’S BASICALLY GIFTING ANYONE WHO WILL TAKE IT, MAN WOMAN AND CHILD! LIKE A COMMUNIST!

HEY JT! GOOD LUCK GETTING OUT OF THIS!!!!!!

#363 Daniel Brutto on 05.11.20 at 2:23 pm

#349 Bytor the Snow Dog

When you don’t wear a mask your telling your family and friends i don’t care about you. Its not to protect yourself, its to protect them.

The consequence of this, as i have witnessed today and over the past 2 months, will be you will not be able to visit or see your loved ones when they are sick and dying. All decision making will be done over the phone. On their final day you will be asked for cremation or burial. Your final visit, if you choose too, will be under sworn affidavit to quarantine from your surviving family for 14 days. When they are amongst other Covid-19 patients in an outbreak centre you will quiver and reject any final visit.

If you think wearing a mask is too much trouble, think of this outcome.

Didn’t he just want grass seed? Sheesh. Lighten up. – Garth

#364 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 2:34 pm

#358 Figure it Out on 05.11.20 at 2:04 pm sez:
‘ “Guess who’s getting my money?”

Local fuel retailer named after a game where the customer usually loses his money?’
—————————————-
Sorry FIO I’m not following this one.

#365 Scott on 05.11.20 at 2:51 pm

@#223 TurnerNation on 05.10.20 at 9:53 pm

Once again no answer to the question. Some vague remarks that can later be cited as an I told you so (for almost anything)..

#366 Flywest29 on 05.11.20 at 2:53 pm

Daniel Brutto

Get a hold of yourself man.

#367 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 2:55 pm

#363 Daniel Brutto The Virtue Signaler on 05.11.20 at 2:23 pm sez:
“#349 Bytor the Snow Dog

When you don’t wear a mask your telling your family and friends i don’t care about you. Its not to protect yourself, its to protect them.

The consequence of this, as i have witnessed today and over the past 2 months, will be you will not be able to visit or see your loved ones when they are sick and dying. All decision making will be done over the phone. On their final day you will be asked for cremation or burial. Your final visit, if you choose too, will be under sworn affidavit to quarantine from your surviving family for 14 days. When they are amongst other Covid-19 patients in an outbreak centre you will quiver and reject any final visit.

If you think wearing a mask is too much trouble, think of this outcome.

Didn’t he just want grass seed? Sheesh. Lighten up. – Garth”
———————————————————————-
This is tactic number 2 of the Virtue Signaler Brigade. The personal is political, think of the children emotional argument nonsense.

Please tell me Daniel, how am I endangering anyone by breathing when I DON’T HAVE A VIRUS? If the “family and friends” are worried that they are going to get the deadly Covid (that’s killing MILLIONS) from every asymptomatic person walking down the street, why aren’t THEY wearing proper PPE or self isolating under their beds?

Stop with the ridiculous emotional arguments. They don’t work on rational people who can think for themselves.

They do work on sheep though. And eventually sheep get sheared. Keep that in mind.

#368 Lost...but not leased on 05.11.20 at 3:06 pm

However,

Social change is occurring. Society is not the same as it was 2 decades ago, or prior. The big inflection point was world war 2. In its wake society as a whole has improved immensely. There is less war and more cooperation than ever before. MR could correct in that stance.

MF

=======================

OMG…

Seriously?

Perhaps review the rot injected into various societies post WW2 under Cultural Marxism, which is leading to a totalitarian One World Gov’t.

If you haven’t been paying attention…they are on the verge of victory.

Duhhhhh….

#369 Barb on 05.11.20 at 3:26 pm

Cute sign:
COVID reversed is DIVOC

#370 Sold Out on 05.11.20 at 3:27 pm

#356 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1:57 pm
#353 MF on 05.11.20 at 1:41 pm sez:
“#349 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 1

Right. So you called a front line worker a “sheep” because she was following the rules?

Stay classy.

MF”
————————————
No. I called TWO front line workers and the owner of the franchise hardware store who I’ve known for many years “sheep”.

Just like you, sheep.

B-A-A H. B-A-A-H. Run along now you good L’il Canadian you.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

What a big, brave, “independent thinker”! Just like your hero, Cult #45, right up until he found out that the virus was bringing him his dinner.

Abusing a captive audience, such as front line retail workers, tells us all we need to know about you. Do stable grownups attack and name call strangers when their ridiculous unsupported beliefs aren’t reinforced?

No, just the not-too-bright garden-variety bullies, and all-around petty, little men. Now who does that remind me of?

#371 Marco on 05.11.20 at 3:29 pm

Can anybody tell me what is strike price for aurora cannabis warrants after reverse split of common share,
because old strike price was 4 and in my TD direct investing account still is showing same amount of warrants as I had before shares reverse split. Of course I cannot talk to TD because nobody answer telephone. They did not update my account or what? Because looks like anybody can buy warrants for 30 cents and then excercise them for a common stock at 4 dollars.
Looks to be too good to be true,no?

#372 Phylis on 05.11.20 at 3:35 pm

Finally, the lawnmower hp overstatement class action suit settlement came in. $69.44

#373 Bytor the Snow Dog on 05.11.20 at 3:36 pm

@370 Sole Doubt-

That almost brought a tear to my eye. I…..I…..I’m so ashamed….

No not really. Try a different shaming tactic next time. And do try to deal with that TDS. It’s eating you up inside man.

#374 TLDR on 05.13.20 at 5:16 pm

TLDR – free money

[] Canadians were warned by credible sources about having too much debt WTSHTF -there will be big problem$$$

[] We did’nt listen then and we piled our debts up to the historically high levels we hold today

[] a nation of financial nincompoops?

[] So, TSHTF and while some of us are still not listening(looking at you melanie), [] T2’s liberal gov has bet the MOAD that handing out economic lifelines to the citizenry will keep the nations economic boat afloat while dealing with the bug [] It wont be easy to cut those lifelines in coronavirus infected world,

[] the lobby for UBI grows strong, it does have its PRO’s and it’s CONS (like the tab and who’s picking it up), so (FREE ADVICE) stash your cash, (BOLD PREDICTIONS) it on it’s way!