“I played golf yesterday and asked one of the other guys how his investing is going?” says Mike from the Left Coast. “His answer ‘not doing well right now but when I get my $2000 benefit it will go straight into my investment account’.
“I stewed on that for half a hole and when we got to the next tee I asked out loud to the group ‘so you’re still working for your brother but have applied for the CERB?’ ‘Yup’ was his response. Then another member of the group said, with a smile on his face, ‘I applied for it too’. I asked why, he said ‘my hours have been cut’ again with a smile. I stopped talking about this as it would have got ugly.
“I will not be golfing with two of the three members of this group anytime soon. I’m not sure how all of this will play out but it’s not going to be pretty. Maybe you should write about it.”
Well, here we go. Unleash the hungry hounds of avarice.
There are some 19 million working people in Canada. In the last three weeks almost six million of them have applied for money from the government. Astonishing. Historic. Troubling. A couple of million rushed to claim EI once the pandemic hit and jobs started to evaporate. Another four million have signed on for the emergency benefit in just the last seven days. Almost two hundred thousand claims came in over the Easter weekend. They continue.
The $2,000-a-month payment (for 16 weeks) is intended to support people who have lost their jobs to Ms.Virus, are in quarantine or must care for kids (since all the teachers went home). In other words, people without income. The feds have made it simple – three clicks and the cash is on its way. If nobody else applies (and they will), this will cost us $49,000,000,000 over four months. This is but one piece of the pandemic bill which will raise the annual deficit from just over $20 billion to almost $200 billion. Your grandchildren will still be paying for it when they retire.
Are there really six million people unemployed right now? Of course not. That would be a 32% jobless rate, when the number is likely a third of that (yet still appalling). But what the pandemic has done – prompting governments to turn off the economy, then having to support so many millions – is twofold. First, it exposes us as a nation of ne’er-do-well financial illiterates and hedonistic profligates who confuse debt-infused assets with wealth and save nothing. Second, this could be the death of personal responsibility. I mean, sheesh, have you checked what the moisters are saying on social media?
To a lot of kids the CERB is the teaser for UBI. They believe and expect that in an unfair world in which Boomers stole all the jobs and made houses too rich to afford a universal basic income is their right. Increasingly a bunch of politicians agree with them. It’s the social justice policy swamp from which Jagmeet and Bernie Sanders crawled. So just wait until the Mills start filling the seats in the House of Commons.
Anyway, this is the crossroads. Giving people ten billion a month for not working is a crippling expense. Ottawa has an obligation to support those whose livelihoods it destroyed in the pandemic fight, of course, even if those citizens had failed to look after themselves. It’s a moral imperative.
But do all citizens have a right to the money – just because it’s there? Because it’s not means-tested? Is that a clever, smart thing to do? Certainly accepting enough cash to top up your TFSA with growth-oriented ETFs at a time of market decline is an amazing benefit. Yet in doing so, are you making future taxes higher? Indenturing your kids? Legitimizing political stupidity and overspending? Hurting Canada? Guaranteeing there’s less health care money when the next pandemic comes? Being greedy and myopic?
Or does your personal situation and family need trump all of that?
Perhaps those taking the cash without need feel it’s an act of political retribution. Maybe they agree with the prime minster that we’re a post-nation state. Maybe like many of the young they think government exists to support them. Maybe after declaring an emergency to fill us all with fear, the authorities are diverting us with greed.
But here’s the main question: what will you do?
382 comments ↓
The banking establishment, privatizing the profits and socializing the losses since 1913.
Keep that inflation going – the rich need to print more money to keep their estates artificially wealthy on the backs of the serfs.
Said it before and I’ll say it again – the best thing for Canada would be the complete dismantling of Ottawa.
This crisis is driving home the fact that people in Canadia make way too much money for work performed which in turn allows them to borrow ungodly amounts more. This is coming to a grinding halt. This is playing out in most of the “first world” countries. Watch American Factory documentary on Netflix. It’s like jumping into the Hudson bay without a wetsuit.
So Mike’s friends are just fraudsters them… Does this money need to be declared? Can the CRA catch the cheats at tax time? I’m not applying because I’m not a fraudster, and I’m still being paid and have a LOC as an emergency fund. But I bet I’ll pay for the others later… Oh and the virus is called the “boomer remover” now ;)
Which golf courses are open? I want to golf!
We have three kids 10, 9 and 8 at public school in BC. What we don’t have is any knowledge of where the teachers are since school returned. Personally we think they are all loving the outdoor gardening / home reno weather and watching the news. Full pay no work. And parents now fully in charge to teach their kids. Kinda ironic given parents have been interfering with teachers for years. Lesson. Careful what you (parents) wish for!
I tried to answer the questions as if I were Trudeau. Take the money and don’t worry about debt. It was a fail though. I got a spinning WordPress logo that just went around on a carousel. Which seemed fitting given our economic failures and carouselling. Lol.
I don’t know how many times I’ve read Garth preach – “when the gov’t offers free money, take it as soon as you can”. Just following his advice.
The reference was exclusively to CPP, which you contributed to. You gave nothing towards this. – Garth
First? I currently have a new built house nearing completion in Campbell River, Vancouver Island. We purchased several months ago before we all entered these pandemic days, and we are committed to following thought with it. Living on Vancouver Island, this house isn’t an investment or a flip. I had a few panicky moments during the ‘roll-out’ of this pandemic, but have been waiting on a house for a long time now (38 years old, no previous home, saved lots over the years while renting). The way I see it is that we could walk away from our $20k deposit, and potentially get sued…..or enjoy our opportunity to pick every last detail of the house, and live there for a handful of years, by which point (I’m hoping) the markets will be sufficiently recovered. I’ll be selling into the same market regardless, so if my house price tanks, then next one I purchase will have as well. Same if things recover. Thanks for all your posts over the years Garth.
I read that people were saying, the CRA is keeping tabs on all this, and if they find you were inaccurate, you will get hit hard with a tax assessment. So better not spend all that money.
During a state of emergency, the left coast has allowed golf to continue? Either a made up story used as precursor for today’s post or…that is all.
I’m not currently a Canadian resident, nor am I out of work, so I can’t access the cash or any Canadian government welfare scheme for that matter.
But after T2 viciously means-tested (yes, viciously) the child care benefit, ripping even MORE money from successful middle class professionals to give to welfare recipients having more children than they can afford, not to mention gutting the TFSA, I can’t say I blame some of the better-off for shrewdly taking advantage of this “free” (until next year’s tax return) money. Note that I am obviously NOT advocating welfare fraud! I’m speaking of well-off individuals who, under the stated rules, technically qualify for the benefit even if they don’t need it.
Garth, you’ve mentioned many times that when the government offers you money, take it. I don’t see why that principle shouldn’t apply here.
There will be more means-tested programs on the way which will see taxpayers have pay for non-taxpayers to receive even more goodies. Think pharmacare and dentistry. In this kind of environment in which successful people continue to be penalized (and those in big cities even more so, since the means testing does take into account cost of living) to shower more and more goodies on the indolent, don’t be surprised if those paying for it all take what they can get (LEGALLY, I hasten to add).
We have to login to vote? That’s new.
Anyways,
I’m lucky enough to be still working. Health care, but not a first responding hero by any means. So I didn’t apply.
My assumption is that anyone who applies could be subject to a reassessment or audit some point in the future to see if they really were eligible. Right now it’s about getting the money out as soon as possible.
That’s my take.
MF
Hello Garth I’m not sure if this is happening to everyone but when I filled out the form it brought me to a wordpress login which I don’t have obviously … Great article me and a friend were actually talking about this on the phone this morning … shocking I’m in the Philippines but hes on the west coast and he said plenty of longshore which live in his building are applying for this… there has been a ton of work on the waterfront lately and they make great money not to single them out because we all know the entitlement is everywhere… It sickens me to hear this no accountability whatsoever these days it’s scary and it doesn’t look like it will get any better any time soon…
Universal Basic Income already.
Let’s just do it and get it over with.
I can’t get the benefit, as my employer continues to pay me even though I’m home. However, I truly fail to see the difference between a person worth several million dollars avoiding taxes legally, and taking the CERB, legally.
Let’s be honest here, big banks, huge corporations, lobby for and take every dime the government will give them. In the US they spent trillions a decade ago and are now spending trillions more bailing every corporation out. The same corporations that took that money, bought back their own stock, inflated CEO salaries, privatized profits and socialized losses.
Do they care about the future? Seriously Garth, this blog bangs on and on about the great stock market recovery that’s sure to come, well, it’s coming from government largesse too. Do you feel guilty leaving the bill to future generations?
There’s no social contract in a world where so few control so much wealth, and THEY get bailed out first.
The Bank of Canada = Bags of Cash ….
…….to a growing number of financial illiterates in this country…..
Disgusting doesn’t even begin to describe the self entitled population growing in this country.
Tried answering the survey questions, just got the WordPress wheel… wouldn’t submit.
Put me down for No, Yes, No, Yes, Several Years.
Its like an old 1980’s UI card.
Can the golfing dudes and we’ll get out of this quicker.
“The reference [take free money] was exclusively to CPP, which you contributed to. You gave nothing towards this. – Garth
———————–
Haha… Oh, but you will. Yes, indeed you will give and give and give, and give some more. Mandatorily.
Financial martyrdom is, of course, always an option.
Kinda weird that people with TFSA money would qualify.
CRA has this info.
The whole set up is weird.
I would take the money (if I could get it) because I will also be paying for it, whether I get it or not.
I will keep doing what I do best: Not spend money.
If most were like me the entire planet would be bankrupt. I do not buy on emotion or am swayed by the masses.
I am grateful for basics: Clean air and water and edible food.
Food may be a problem if the bat nonsense is not solved as no farm workers. And inability to grow Vegetables in Alberta Siberia. I wont resort to China strategy of eating non eatable animals either.
7 auskirby604 on 04.13.20 at 2:35 pm
I don’t know how many times I’ve read Garth preach – “when the gov’t offers free money, take it as soon as you can”. Just following his advice.
The reference was exclusively to CPP, which you contributed to. You gave nothing towards this. – Garth
….
Paid into EI for years…now laid off due to government actions shuttering our business.. why would I not apply to EI to cover a few months.. Isn’t that what it’s for… laid off due to lack of work
Some Good News!
1. The pandemic is slowly winding down in this part of the globe. Most hospital ICU’s are quiet.
2. Pent up demand will provide some initial boost to the economy.
3. USMCA kicks off this summer.
4. A big technological change is now underway which will profoundly change our world. It will provide for the convergence of new and existing technologies in ways yet to be fully understood. Some currently argue against it however few argue about the economic boom it will provide. Note: as an aside check out IBM’s “cryptographic anchoring” technology. The end of pirating & technology theft?
5. Some manufacturing will now undoubtedly return to the West.
6. Central banks and their monetary quackery have now been fully exposed (time for a change in monetary policy…organic growth has a natural rhythm/cycle).
7. Much of the mainstream media have now been exposed for driving an agenda of fear and loathing that ultimately manifests as illness and strife in society. (media agitprop must end. It’s now time to hear both sides of the story equally on ALL issues. Let the people decide fairly!)
Have your finances been negatively affected by the pandemic?
———
Can you define that further? If you mean my income, the answer is no. If it’s my investment portfolio you refer to, then the answer is yes.
https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/canada-emergency-response-benefit-anyone-can-get-it-but-might-have-to-pay-it-back
According to a report from the Toronto Star, anyone who applies for the CERB will receive it, regardless of whether they would qualify or not.
However, that doesn’t mean they won’t be checked up on later regarding their employment and income status.
“Come tax time next year the (government) would be able to verify all the eligibility criteria,” a spokesperson for the Federal Minister of Employment told the Star.
I’m a young man that came from nothing, I try to be responsible saving my money for a small home for my wife and son but alas it’s not possible , I will be renting and working until I’m dead…….
So yeah I’ll take the money
There should be a significant repayment penalty for those who knew they did not meet the CREB criteria but decided to apply anyway.
We can call it a Fraudster Penalty Tax.
5% compounded monthly sounds about right. Principal of $8,000 + $5,300 in penalty if the fraudster waits until tax time next April.
This is exactly what I was afraid of. A bunch of greedy monsters taking advantage – waiting for handouts. I posted a comment a few articles ago asking why we should bother being responsible when it seems the irresponsible are rewarded. People replied “your own dignity” – I agreed. Unfortunately the decisions our leaders make create and contribute to a culture. I wish it was one that incentivized the right behavior and not this immoral garbage. Have some pride – this is disgusting but not surprising.
We should have a simulated 2-tier society. One with UBI and one without.
Except in this society the UBI folks only get to redistribute wealth from the other UBIers. So if they don’t work much as a group, they don’t get much. We’ll call it Can-babwe 2.0
I am GenZ and would definitely support a UBI at the tune of slightly above the current tax exclusion rate ,let’s say 15K if and only if all other government programs get shattered ( child tax benefit, OAS, EI ..etc ) . Stop hiring new government employees and start redistributing them to where needed ,do not rehire when they retire..Simple and easy and it will never happen . Also if you make more then 50K a year it should stop,that should be the limit for OAS today as well. One can live quite well in GVR for under 50K a year per person.
My wife is an Optometrist. She is doing her part continuing to provide care to her patients as best she can with remote consults. Every emergency patient she can deal with over the phone means one less person walking into a clinic or hospital out of fear of losing their vision.
We’re fully expecting to see her income drop to about 10% or less of what we normally see. She could stop working all together and qualify for CERB but she won’t, she cares about her patients.
15 years of planning, saving, and investing mean we can ride this out with ease. But if the rules change and allow healthcare workers to apply who are still providing care you better believe we will be applying.
I don’t know if this is possible, but when taxes are filed for the 2020 year could the government have any way of figuring out if 1) the tax filer received EI/CERB & didn’t qualify & 2) a way to ‘claw back’ any benefits received if the recipient proved to be not eligible for those benefits?
While I would very much like to believe that very few people would apply for benefits that they don’t qualify for, the ugly reality of comments from the ‘Keep your Rent’ crowd are enough to convince me that all too many would not agree that doing so would be the wrong choice.
This is a test.
If you thought thirty billion dollar deficits were unsustainable with $40 oil and 5.6% unemployment, it is time to reevaluate. Changed facts sometimes call for changed opinions.
The PBO is now projecting a $184B deficit, oil is at $23,
half the economy is shut down, most people expect unemployment north of 10%. and our dollar is at US$0.72. We’re not a safe haven currency like the USD, CHF, and JPY.
I wouldn’t have guessed it, but there you go. People controlling billions of dollars of real money have not sold everything Canada, and our dollar is not at $0.50, despite WHOPPING unforeseen deficits and severely curtailed demand for our exports.
I think it’s fair to conclude that $30B deficits were probably quite sustainable — at least that’s what Mr. Market appears to think.
Another thing.
Has the government explained why EI is all of a sudden not considered sufficient support for a currently unemployed individual?
What’s the difference, at an individual level, between a person who lost his/her last year vs. now? The reason for the job loss is irrelevant. Is it fair that someone who lost his/her job now gets $2000 more pogey per month than someone who lost a job last year?
#9 Natrx
“I read that people were saying, the CRA is keeping tabs on all this, and if they find you were inaccurate, you will get hit hard with a tax assessment. So better not spend all that money.”
You misunderstand – the financial establishment doesn’t pay taxes. They will invest it and write it off and turn themselves tens of thousands on it lending it back to the serfs at interest. Don’t delude yourself – the game is rigged entirely in their favour by design. This wealth creation benefits them by making the masses poorer and further in debt they can never hope to climb out of. Keeping them right where they belong, at the bottom.
Keep saying this to yourself until it sinks in:
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
I’m adjusting the GTPMI™ to 300
IOW, when the comments on the posts reach 300 (excluding special events like humblebrag net worth/income days), it is probably safe to assume panic is at the max and we are at or near a short term (and possibly a long term) bottom.
This blog started tagging 300 around the time of the bottom if my poor memory serves me right so I think that is a safe number. We have been slowly trending down as the fear and worry turn to other things
What a howl.
People actually believe the government is giving them money?
Oh Greater Fools, the government is merely fronting you a little cash. You’ll be paying back every cent, plus fees, points, and interest soon enough.
The government doesn’t give money to anyone. It only takes. It is a machine designed only to take. Don’t let the handouts fool you.
If you don’t see that by now, probably best to stop paying attention to things.
Go back to autopilot. ‘Flix n’ Chill.
The hour is late.
Why are Mike and Garth getting so sanctimonious about taking government money? Do seniors limit income to maximize their OAS? Do government employees give back their pension raises in tough times? Do maritimer fishermen get jobs the other 9 months of the year instead of collecting EI? Does Quebec give Alberta a few billion in equalization as they have surpluses and don’t need it? This is Canada. Know anyone who does cash jobs to avoid taxes or loss of government cheques?
Lets face it. We are a nation of mooches. If Trudeau is going to spend $100 billion in three months, why not try to grab a piece. When the bill comes, who will be paying for it? Us taxpayers.
The worst part of this situation is the people trying to justify taking the money because “it comes from Trudeau,” or because of some action or inaction by our Prime Minister. The money doesn’t come from Trudeau, it comes from your fellow citizens, the vast majority of whom are not welfare bums. Grow up people.
I hope this poster is correct. ( #9 Natrx on 04.13.20 at 2:36 pm).
It shows how morally bankrupt many people have become. I hope the CRA comes down hard because this is nothing less than fraud, and it should be traceable through employment records for most.
The government of Canada cannot allow itself to be ‘taken’ in such a way. It would be a national disgrace. Hopefully they have something electronic in place to catch any weasels who think they can screw other Canadians over. The penalties should be very harsh. Shoot first and ask questions later seems the perfect approach in this instance. Let me see if I can lay my hands of a Colt 45. They may need the Jaguar’s help.
When financial advisors allocate investments and withdrawals between registered and non-registered accounts for retired folk, the plan typically attempts to maximize OAS eligibility to the extent possible, does it not?
OAS is a universal program — it doesn’t require an individual to contribute to be eligible. And, having done taxes for recipients, I can tell you that plenty of people who receive it don’t need it.
And it is clawed back. – Garth
To a lot of kids the CERB is the teaser for UBI. They believe and expect that in an unfair world in which Boomers stole all the jobs and made houses too rich to afford a universal basic income is their right. Increasingly a bunch of politicians agree with them. It’s the social justice policy swamp from which Jagmeet and Bernie Sanders crawled. So just wait until the Mills start filling the seats in the House of Commons.
Cannot wait. It will be more just society than it is now or before. End of criminal boomer.
Easy to take from the government when you believe the federal government owes you everything and OH you have no integrity….. very sad
Left coast: Yes lots of golf courses are open and running, just not city operated courses…..
There is another huge wave of CERB coming too. For the current benefit period, you have to have lost your income for 14 consecutive days in the benefit period, which means (in theory) everyone who was laid off after March 28th can only apply today for the period starting April 13th.
Gold is up and USD down today.
My Millionaire Metric chart is up that tracks Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto SF Detached prices as well as $1 million dollars all priced in $CAD ozs of gold.
http://www.chpc.biz/millionaire-metric.html
To be a millionaire today (March data) you need 50% less gold than 10 years ago.
This is not investment advice.
My easter weekend post includes a history of Pandemics tabled to show its name, when they occurred, what type it was and how many deaths resulted:
http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/pandemic-history
Remember HIV/Aids that began in 1981 and is still active? It has claimed 25-35 million people. There is no “cure” once you have it, only medications (antiretroviral therapy) to prevent complications. Once you have it, you have it for life.
Currently, China and South Korea are reporting cases of corona virus turning up positive again in people who were formerly diagnosed negative after contracting the virus.
As the WHO says, we have to “isolate, test, treat and trace” as many cases as possible.
Data collection and analysis is how we are going get back to socializing safely.
I think the Canadian government has done the right thing to just back up the truck and throw the money out as quickly as possible. For contrast, look at the PPP and EIDC delays in the US.
I’m expecting a reckoning at tax time for Canadians who take CERB and don’t need it.
CRA: “Oh, I see here your 2020 income wasn’t significantly lower than your 2019 income. Congratulations, we’re glad you financially weathered the virus so successfully. We’re going to need your CERB money back. With interest.”
Can anyone provide contacts for the government to report the fraudsters?
The most shocking part of this modern parable is that it was penned in 2003!
It even has Svend in it. :D
THE PARABLE OF THE ANT
AND THE GRASSHOPPER
Author unknown
The Classic Version
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he’s a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The shivering grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.
The Canadian Post-Modern
(Liberal Government) Version
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he’s a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate like him are cold and starving.
CBC shows up to provide live coverage of the shivering grasshopper, with cuts to a video of the ant in his comfortable warm home with a table filled with food. Canadians are stunned that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so while others have plenty.
The NDP, the CAW and the Coalition Against Poverty demonstrate in front of the ant’s house. The CBC, interrupting an Inuit cultural festival special from Nunavut with breaking news, broadcasts them singing “We Shall Overcome.” Svend Robinson rants in an interview with Pamela Wallin that the ant has gotten rich off the backs of grasshoppers, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his “fair share.”
In response to polls, the Liberal Government drafts the Economic Equity and Grasshopper Anti-Discrimination Act, retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant’s taxes are reassessed and he is also fined for failing to hire grasshoppers as helpers. Without enough money to pay both the fine and his newly imposed retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government. The ant moves to the US, starts a successful agribiz company.
The CBC later shows the now fat grasshopper finishing up the last of the ant’s food though spring is still months away, while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant’s old house, crumbles around him because he hadn’t maintained it. Inadequate government funding is blamed, Roy Romanow is appointed to head a commission of enquiry that will cost $10,000,000.
The grasshopper is soon dead of a drug overdose, the Toronto Star blames it on obvious failure of government to address the root causes of despair arising from social inequity. The abandoned house is taken over by a gang of spiders, praised by the government, who promptly terrorize the community.
My wife was laid off as of today and has applied for EI w/ top up of 20% offered to her by her employer. She didn’t have a choice to keep working as her clientele is mostly 60+ (hearing aids).
I will likely keep working throughout this pandemic. Our office has slowed down compared to prior years with not as much overtime this tax season (45 hour weeks compared to 60). The EI is not needed as we also have a diversified portfolio and roughly 5 months living expenses in cash on hand.
I will be investing the excess cash throughout the next few months while sanity returns. I don’t feel bad about this… Lord knows I’m going to be paying for the excesses of the rest of my cohort in the future.
The one real positive I’ve experienced through this all is seeing how much of the monthly crap we don’t need. Wife’s car will be returned after her lease is up in October.
CERB (canadian emergency response benefit) – if you are subsequently determined to be ineligible, you must repay the benefit…
It’s like the CRA knows everyone is going to walk into the house with muddy shoes, but decides to clean the mess and scold the people a year later >.<
“…a nation of ne’er-do-well financial illiterates and hedonistic profligates”
THAT was good, excellent actually.
And what will I do? Not a resident, so nada for me.
But I must say, the thought of hedonism has it cachet, add in some profligacy and that might be just too hard to pass up on…kidding, just kidding.
———————————-
#126 NFN_NLN (from yesterday)
You can tell Al, whatever MSM that was, that they are wrong. You know, I do live here, I can speak the language and understand it.
Here is the actual decree in Italian for Apr. 14 – translate on your own (basically Phase I of loosening up the economy):
https://static.gedidigital.it/repubblica/pdf/2020/cronaca/dpcm-10-aprile.pdf
Here is reputable La Repubblica providing a detailed list of what is opening up tomorrow (extensive) – use Google translate:
https://www.repubblica.it/politica/2020/04/10/news/attivita_commerciali_riaperture_dpcm-253669685/?refresh_ce
…And yet another source, same extensive and Google translate:
https://www.ilriformista.it/coronavirus-quali-sono-le-attivita-che-riapriranno-dopo-pasquetta-lelenco-79381/?refresh_ce
And I could go on…
May 4 is Phase 2, TBD but civilian liberties etc. loosened up, like travel if not an end to the lockdown. Here they explain the difference between April 14 and May 3, use Google Translate:
https://www.ilriformista.it/coronavirus-italia-ancora-chiusa-fino-al-3-maggio-conte-mes-inadeguato-servono-gli-eurobon-79333/
—————–
I prefer the Italian MSM on Italian issues than Al Jazeera, so should you.
Computers distribute money. People working for governments are well connected dummies.
Take the money. Let illiterates recover it from you. You can always claim English insufficiency for not understanding rules. With level of literacy in this (country, really?), it is always a legit claim.
you’re missing the point, Garth. In my example, my wife stopped working and she was eligible for the $2K even though we can still get by for several months (albeit depleting our savings). We took it anyway because we know government will tax me to oblivion in the future, more so than I am taxed now (since I was responsible and saved) to pay for those that over consumed and saved nothing. I could have bought a much bigger house and a much better car (not complaining about what I have at all, BTW), but I did not.
It would be stupid of me to not take the money. and quite frankly am not surprised at those people you mention in the article. They were fraudsters in that they were tax evaders in the first place anyway. Blame those that gave it away with no controls. Blame the government for allowing tax cheats. How difficult is it to compare your income with your expenditures when everything is electronic (your mortgage, car payment, credit card payment etc.. vs. the income you declare)?
everywhere you go in the GTA small business tell you if you pay cash you don’t pay HST, when we all know HST is 13% and credit card costs to merchants are only 2-3%? do you think the merchant is paying 10% tax differential on your behalf because you paid them in cash?
How is the government now going to track who worked and who didn’t, in the category of self-employed? When you file your taxes, it’s annual amounts you declare not monthly. no shame on them. shame on the government. and I am sure the government knows, but is letting it be as a price to pay as it is not coming out of the pockets of those in charge anyway. what’s their incentive to be prudent with someone else’s money?
I am not impacted (yet), but my wife is self-employed contractor, and just lost her contract. Given she has no EI option, she will be applying for CERB once the contract is closed out this week.
Could we get by without this, living off my salary and cut out expenses? Sure, it is possible. So what you are saying is that my wife shouldn’t take the (basically EI for the contractor / gig) and suffer through it, but I will pay for it in my taxes anyways – let me pay for 5+ million Canadians taking it, but because I am not a profligate spender, my wife should abstain…
I haven’t contributed anything? Try millions (yes, millions) in income taxes paid over the past 30 years, with very little in services pulled out. I have paid hundreds of thousands in EI, and never used a penny.
Something that is clearly fraud (applying when you have a job or contract) is obviously a different story.
RE:#23 Stone on 04.13.20 at 2:54 pm
Have your finances been negatively affected by the pandemic?
———
Can you define that further? If you mean my income, the answer is no. If it’s my investment portfolio you refer to, then the answer is yes.
=======================================
I took it to mean cash flow. I’m pretty sure Garth knows that most investments have done the COVID crash. Even the 60/40 portfolio is down a moderate amount from the peak.
Self-employed and work has dried up. It will be back but likely in a few weeks if not months. I have some savings but I took the first instalment of the CREB.
$2000 gave my family a bit of liquidity. We have no debt and I could use the Federal gov’t dollars to make sure we hit the monthlies on time and do bigger shops so out less often.
This is helicopter money. Yes it is designed to help people who “need” the help; but it is also designed to keep the actual economy going. Flooding the market with “free money” (which will be clawed back with next year’s taxes) is a pretty smart reaction to the dislocation caused by the virus and the economic and social contraction it has created.
For that response to actually work people who don’t desperately need the money should take it anyway. And then spend it creating the demand which will keep the overall economy ticking over. Stashing it in your TFSA is not the most effective use for the CRED money, buying a gift certificate at your favourite local restaurant, ordering a Canadian book online, buying a bunch of bedding plants, getting an oil change, are much more effective.
Bills first and then look for maximum multiplier effect in the real, local, economy.
As far as a UBI goes:
If we eliminate the child benefit, welfare, EI and OAS, plus the cost of attendant bureaucracies, take that amount and divide by the number of Canadians over 18 to get an annual base income per head…
I might support that idea. Make it tax free and if you want to work and save to achieve a better life that’s your business.
“They believe and expect that in an unfair world in which Boomers stole all the jobs and made houses too rich to afford a universal basic income is their right. ”
Dude…
… I am an eclectic blend of left and right, and am certainly not a struggling Mill… so don’t pigeonhole me when I say this…
… people want UBI because work sucks, and in a putatively affluent society it’s hard to think of a better goal than freeing people from it. That’s it. The perception about “boomers” is just that catalyst.
Its almost a mulligan. We did not commit to the F-35 fighters, and how much was that? Word on certain streets is that countries, like Japan, have drone forces that can take out modern planes, like a knife, through butter.
#26 Cash is King on 04.13.20 at 2:56 pm
There should be a significant repayment penalty for those who knew they did not meet the CREB criteria but decided to apply anyway.
We can call it a Fraudster Penalty Tax.
5% compounded monthly sounds about right. Principal of $8,000 + $5,300 in penalty if the fraudster waits until tax time next April.
——————————————————–
I think the CERB works like EI: You have to apply each period in order to get paid. For the initial period, you can still be employed but you are eligible if you did not work for 14 days. For the subsequent periods, you must not have received any employment income.
Now that the Federal government has voted in “The Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy” last, a lot of SMEs will rehire their employees in the second half of April and May. A such, their employees will no longer be eligible to CERB; like EI, they have to stop reporting their period. If they continue to claim it
they will need to give it back next year.
Apparently the I voted Conservative in the last Ontario election. I will not vote Conservative again if they vote to extend this draconian shutdown any further.
I will be contacting my MPP Chris Lewis and telling him so.
One question did not have enough options.
“If you do NOT need the CERB money (Canada Emergency Relief Benefit), will you take it anyway?”
I answered Yes, but I am not eligible, so I can’t.
Anyway, if the government can gives millions to terrorists….take what you can.
Interesting news coming out of Vancouver:
1. Over 30% Van residents surveyed say they will pay less (or no) property tax than required to do so, because they are broke, and
2. BC began offering subsidies for renters, which requires the landlord to fill out paperwork. Many landlords are refusing because they have illegal suites. The landlords are afraid if they fill out the form that they will be caught not declaring the additional income they have been making the past several years.
Mayor says Vancouver will become insolvent without input money from the province.
https://www.straight.com/covid-19-pandemic/mayor-kennedy-stewart-releases-results-of-survey-showing-grim-economic-impact-of-pandemic-on
https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/12/tenants-in-illegal-suites-might-have-difficulty-accessing-rental-subsidy/
I am in my first year of running my own business, speaking of good timing.
However, I am still having some work, but most of my projects got cancelled/delayed. I have applied for $40k loan, and still waiting for approval. As I am expecting and already seeing delays in invoice payments, even for work that I did in February. And will be relying on this to get me through.
I will not apply for CREB, as I wouldn’t qualify. But if this continues I will not have income in May, or it will be significantly reduced. The problem with my operation as it is consultancy, I am lagging two to three months from when work was done, till I get money in the bank.
Also, in a sense I am borrowing money now, as I am not paying GST or income taxes for myself. I am concerned that I will get hit the hardest when pandemic is over, as I will have to pay corporate taxes, help will not be available, and it would probably take me 3+ months to get to the workload where I was before pandemic.
but as our fearless leader (who hasn’t left the house) said this is a new normal, till vaccine is found. That must be one of the most irresponsible comments by a “leader” I’ve heard in recent history.
On the bright side, T2 managed to beat the urge to dress-up for this occasion, virusface, or dressed as health care worker.
Dammit Garth we need an edit button.
The first sentence of my post should have said; “Apparently the Doug Ford govt is voting Tuesday to expand this lockdown another month”.
The reference was exclusively to CPP, which you contributed to. You gave nothing towards this. – Garth
Pardon me, but people take OAS; which they do not contribute to directly. It is paid from general revenues, just like this hand out.
No, this handout is 100% borrowed. No tax money is financing it. Your kids will be paying. – Garth
Many employees – all of them young – at one of our local supermarkets are asking to get laid off because they say they are afraid of getting the virus – and the employer is issuing the pink slips. They can sit at home and do nothing and basically earn the same as if they were working.
I have also heard of people who quit, were fired, or laid off months ago and are now receiving the benefit. A major scam underway.
I ‘dunno Garth:
“…a 32% jobless rate, when the number is likely a third of that (yet still appalling)”
Considering the LFS had an increase of 1 MM unemployed and that from practically the last week in March, 2MM on EI…that 1/3 number, appalling as you say, may well end up being accurate…maybe more?
Good news is that it will be reversible soon enough. I say that starts at the end of Summer.
I like the tone today, chastising the financially reckless for living on the edge with no savings set aside for rainy days, spending more than they have or nearly as much as they take in. What I wonder is if this pandemic economic shock will wake up Canadians to stop gambling with debt and/or a no/low savings lifestyle?
We’ll find out I suppose when it’s all over.
What I’d like to know is why so many Canadians did this (i.e., be financially reckless)?
Omar Khadr took the money.
As you probably know, that settled a law suit. – Garth
The question, “If you do NOT need the CERB money (Canada Emergency Relief Benefit), will you take it anyway?”
Does not articulate if you qualify or do not qualify for it. As I understand it, the feds are making the payouts now, and will worry about whether nor not people qualified later, so there are going to be people who do not qualify who are applying.
I’m assuming you meant, if you qualify.
anyone noticed CPP, EI and FED Taxes went up last week. The average person is making $200 less a month. If you haven’t been bankrupted yet, the Liberals will be sure to bankrupt you working people too!
DELETED
The part-time Security Guard in my mother-in-law’s condo building is a foreign exchange student from overseas, and told me he is applying for the “free $2000/month” (his exact words).
I told him I didn’t know if he qualified for the benefit. His answer? “Well, who knows. The worst they can say is “No”. And if they say yes, it’s free money”.
Amazing the attitude of some younger people these days.
There are ads on a certain non-english apps where someone will “assist you in completing your CERB application for a small fee”.
Pay someone $200 to receive a free $2,000. Sounds like win/win.
#56 Leftover on 04.13.20 at 3:39 pm
As far as a UBI goes:
If we eliminate the child benefit, welfare, EI and OAS, plus the cost of attendant bureaucracies, take that amount and divide by the number of Canadians over 18 to get an annual base income per head…
I might support that idea. Make it tax free and if you want to work and save to achieve a better life that’s your business.
———————————-
I agree with you. And NO means testing. Everyone gets the same UBI amount, regardless of employment income or wealth.
If massive inflation results, too bad. The smart, responsible people will figure out ways to hedge against it. The indolent will complain.
I am taking the money, not sure if I am entitled to it though. I took 14 days off work just to stay away. I work in the retail hardware business.
If I have to pay it back next year, thankfully I am in a position to do so. I just look at it as an interest free loan for a year. I put the money into my Tangerine TFSA where I also get a bonus interest for new money added. So if the money generates an extra 20.00 for the 12 months, it’s money that I didn’t have in the first place.
For those who are thinking about it, the government has said the CERB is a taxable benefit. T-slips will be issued, tax returns compared to records on file. Spring 2021may not be pretty for different reasons.
“Maybe after declaring an emergency to fill us all with fear, the authorities are diverting us with greed.“
————————
Not on your poll but both and husb and I say: YES.
But like other olde(r) readers we went to university when it was still accepted to question authority and think independently and critically. Oh and to value freedom self reliance. Yes, we’ve been complying for now.
“In an unfair world in which Boomers stole all the jobs and made houses too rich to afford a universal basic income is their right.”
Good work – a pretty accurate assessment of where we are, Garth.
Coming next:
-house sale capital gains taxes
-estate taxes
-increased income taxes and capital gains taxes
-loss of citizenship for Boomers and others who profiteer from overseas assets and convenient addresses
-UBI
-CPP for all and OAS
-free tuition
In other words?
Fairness.
Justice.
Equal opportunity.
Boomers, we’re just tired of you, and so is the virus. Just get out of the way. We have taken over, if you didn’t already notice. Good luck with your new Paleo-Conservative Party. (LOLOLOL!)
Boomers, be part of the change.
Or be run over by it.
Ha ha why worry about CRA, when they call just state that they called you by the wrong alphanumeric designation and you are now starting a human rights complaint against them. It will take months before they call you back.
Another note, is it not great to see that the system is now fining families for roller blading together
/www.msn.com/en-ca/video/news/oakville-family-faces-big-fine-after-rollerblading-amid-
Yet a small nation state of people can shut down the economy by putting a pallet on a train track and receive no fines and no punishment.
We are now really a post nation state, a separate set sets of rules for each separate state of people/cultures/race/genders/orientations.
Which category you are placed in dictates which set of rules/consequences you get to follow.
Post Nation State Canada Rocks!
Indeed there are people who really need the $$$ owing to losing a job in an industry which was shut down by the Gov’t. Many such people were living at the edge financially, but I don’t think planning for a pandemic on this scale came into discussion at the dinner table when planning family finances.
However, for sure there will be individuals and companies who will overstate their financial need and will sign up for these benefits just because nobody will be able to check carefully and verify a claim. The mentality is no different than some people who are in minor car crashes with no lasting repurcussions who milk ICBC, all the while trumping up various maladies so as to get a very generous insurance settlement in the end. Entire law firms specializing in these low speed collisions have sprung up in the past decade. My wife was on the receiving end of this bullshit.
Moreover, while many are dealing with various crises caused by the pandemic, there are those (likely originating overseas in India) who are actively inventing new coronavirus-oriented scams to extract gullible individuals from their cash. In the past 3 days I have received several text messages saying to click on a link to receive my $300.00 coronavirus subsidy. Do not pass go, go directly to jail for those masterminding this activity and if they are only permanent residents of Canada and not citizens they need to be kicked out of this country pronto.
Yet, there are those who are on the front line in hospitals, care homes, parademics, etc.. who are putting themselves in danger to carry out their important tasks. We owe these individuals our gratitude.
Quarantine?
Wait till we have a stretch of sunny days 17C-19C. Like a nice solid 3-day stretch. That will be the real test. 12C gave us a preview. But 17C and Sunny will be the real test.
THEN we’ll see how the young really feel about Covid-19 and the wrinklies. They’ll use the masks, alright. To not get a positive on face recognition CCTV during the riot.
Then wait till it is 24C. 28C.
WHAT?
I can’t swim at the beach?!?! I can’t play beach volleyball?
DIE BART, DIE.
…I mean DIE NEGLECTER OF YOUR HEALTH/HIGH MILEAGE INDIVIDUAL, DIE.
#7 auskirby604
don’t know how many times I’ve read Garth preach – “when the gov’t offers free money, take it as soon as you can”. Just following his advice.
The reference was exclusively to CPP, which you contributed to. You gave nothing towards this. – Garth
Garth I believe you also recommended taking the free RESP money from gov’t. I’ve been following your advice….gave $ for my new grandson’s RESP fund soon after he was born. I also took my CPP at 60.
I also take issue with people applying for this handout when not necessary…..very myopic. Very worried about the young ones inheriting such a huge deficit.
The RESP grant is ‘free’ so long as it goes for a child’s education (or it has to be repaid) and only when you provide 80% of the overall contribution. No comparison to the CERB. – Garth
Like my mom used to say…”Either your honest, or your not.” This is sad.
The CRA will take them. It is just a matter of time.
I hear what you’re saying Garth – but has money changed? The idea and relationship between money and human has changed in every single generation, this one is no exception (in my humble opinion of course). I have an old article and wonder what your take is on it? (Or anyone for that matter…)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2018/04/17/everything-youve-been-told-about-government-debt-is-wrong/#7383ebdd314f
Thanks Garth!
Now that I read the article, I am almost tempted to get the benefit, not that I need it, but it sure is tempting. My conscience will not allow me anyway.
I lost my job of 32 years, a year and half ago. It took me a year and literally 18 hours of phone calls to start to get E.I. . It was a simple claim that I was entitled to, but still took 12 months. I helped my son-in-law apply last week he received his first payment today? Makes you wonder how the approval proses is now handled.
I wonder if rushed approvals for E.I. And benefits Will come back and bite some people on the ass after things go back to “normal”.
#78 Millennial Realist on 04.13.20 at 4:17 pm
Run for an office. You have my vote.
T2 is throwing all the borrowed jello money to the wall to see what will stick. He is setting up everyone for the big tax grab once we get through this. I can hear it now, “we had your back, now its time we need YOU to help your government”. Principal Residence exemption gone, perhaps a taxable means test for all those TFSA savers out there, OAS Pension to 70, no more early CPP, look out you one-percenters that pay most of the taxes and say good bye to some of those small business deductions.
So the portfolio is recovering nicely and I have, courtesy of my portfolio manager, picked up some stocks of companies that saw ridiculous drops and are now recovering quite nicely. Not trying to predict the bottom, indeed some days I have trouble finding my own, but this sort of modest grazing of these new fields of opportunities is working well. Garth’s previous comment about the rich getting richer and the poor poorer is one of the most likely outcomes of this pandemic.
Another outcome, both in the near term and possibly long term is increased social unrest. With small businesses being forced to shutter their doors and some closing permanently, we could be looking at higher levels of persistent unemployment. I would not be at all surprised if we start to see rioting and other actions in cities such as Vancouver where, if the reports are accurate, up to 50 percent of the residents are unemployed. If Vancouverites lose a hockey game, they get upset. It could get really nasty.
I am prepared to accept the selfish and greedy actions of a few who may abuse the offered benefits if the masses are able to keep the wolf from their door and hopefully not smash down mine.
In addition to buying, my donations are up too. I have been approaching local businesses and asking them if they need a gift of cash. So far, none of them have but they have suggested a few charities to donate to and that has been done. I expect that I will be doing more of this and rightly so. I encourage those who have the means to do so.
Link for the fearmongers:
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-robson-not-everyone-who-dies-of-the-pandemic-will-die-of-covid-19?video_autoplay=true
Great post John.
Of course there is a huge price to pay for those who think they’re beating the system. I once found a purse driving through Revelstoke. It had about $1300 plus a uncashed check. Took me and the kids about 3 days to track down the single mom and give it back to her. About a year later my kid calls me on the phone and says she just returned a wallet with $80 in it to a guy. Your kids learn from your actions, as much as from your advice, probably more.
#10 Me on 04.13.20 at 2:37 pm
During a state of emergency, the left coast has allowed golf to continue? Either a made up story used as precursor for today’s post or…that is all.
/////////////
New social distancing rules for golf.
1 golfer per cart.
If you are within 6 feet of the cup, it’s a gimme.
Re: In other words, people without income.
You mean working income as I have nothing but income no pensions not 65 yet but I get zilch from Trudeau.
3/27 (39), 4/4 (231), 4/11 (653), 4/18(?)
From the Globe and Mail Dec 3rd 2019:
“Personal Insolvencies Hit Highest Level in a Decade – As households struggle with debt loads, there were 13,200 consumer insolvencies in October 2019 alone, up from 12,000 the previous October. This after a decade of easy money that saw Canadians gorge on debt.”
“Ottawa urged to boost fiscal stabilization program – Premiers call for expanded emergency fund, and ask that changes be applied retroactively.”
Need we say more? This blog and bloggers have been talking about it for months if not years. I bet most bloggers here have money in the bank and little debt.
Blame it on real estate too. Plus municipal, provincial and federal governments played the same game with the same mindset. I love real estate because I always saw job loss as temporary – not the current nightmare we are seeing. It’s all about income but it’s also about expenses. But no income?
The numbers Garth has exposed today are staggering. This is not a black swan. It’s a known unknown. The banks knew. What kind of conversation will we be having at Christmas? We truly are screwed aren’t we?
First: Does this country sell savings bonds?
Has it sold any in recent years?
That pay a couple or three percent?
That even match CPI?
No, I didn’t think so.
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Second: it is refreshing to see helicopter money rain on the Canadian people, while south of the border the Fed immediately buys stock to bail out cruise lines with foreign flagged vessels, while the people wait for a meal.
————————————-
Third: my TSFA contribution for this year is still in the float, what is the point in moving it if stocks are valued at 2017 levels, where there were no headwinds like today.
In 2008, government bail out banks and corporations. They didn’t think twice in getting the money. They were part responsable for the broken economy in 08. If your income is gone, take it. If you still having an income, think twice taking the money. However I won’t blame you if you do take it.
Damage to economy is a lot worst than we think will be. We’ll enter a depression for years. Nothing will be the same.
Deeply hurt to see how some rascals are misusing money being made available in good faith for those who really need it. Until recently i was proud to be Canadian and felt good that my tax dollar was being put to good use. Then i come across all the news about how the public is misusing all this and misreporting their earnings and cheating on taxes. I just wasn’t a realist, i guess. Makes me sick to the stomach to know that we share this great country with such scum bags who are out golfing and devouring food from the plates of hungry children.
In a system in which taxes are so high, those who are working and being productive should apply for all the benefits they can. It is their own money.
In my case, it is not the CERB, but I am taking all the help given to businesses that I can get.
Something else that I have learned from this crisis: do not hire (deadbeat) tenants. These people have no sense of responsability. How can you trust them with a job?
#287 unbalanced on 04.13.20 at 3:41 pm
#273 IHTCD9…. Where do taxes come due shingling your own roof,FNR’s, fixing your own car. Please explain your rant.
—-
Taxes on labour. My roof would have been around 8 grand, I did it for about 1600.00. Taxes on 6400.00 worth of labour averted.
Some jobs are mostly labour, I try to do these myself to avoid the taxes. Brake jobs are also like this, peanuts for parts, big $ for labour. I get parts off Amazon so I don’t even have to drive into town to get them any more. Gas taxes are very high, so I like this part too.
Shopping at an FNR saves taxes too obviously. They are not supposed to sell to me because I am a gringo, but they do anyway (with a smile).
Obviously the point was I do these things to sidestep tax, not to pay it.
Our Benevolent leader is an embarrassment and a joke.
Where is the opposition???
How is it ok for Trudeau to go to visit his family, who he has not been living with, but a guy takes his kids to rollerblade in an empty parking lot and gets an $800 fine?
I can’t wait for the next election.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeaus-cottage-visit-mocks-us-and-the-rules-he-sets
@#78 Millenial Surrealist
“Boomers, we’re just tired of you, and so is the virus. Just get out of the way. We have taken over, if you didn’t already notice.”
***
Bwahahaha.
No problem.
Enjoy paying higher and higher taxes for the next 50 years…. and listening to your kids bitch and moan about how easy you had it.
What free handout comes after “Universal Basic Wage”?
Check your portfolios carefully.
If you hold any individual insurance stocks, dump them now.
If you hold any ETFs that have much weighting in insurance stocks, dump them and pick ETFs that don’t have as much exposure.
The insurance industry is about to be walloped like never before.
Expect about 60-80% of insurers to go bankrupt without an enormous bailout.
And with so much money already going to CERB etc… it’s hard to see where such additional money could come from.
Don’t say you weren’t warned……..
(*This investment advice is provided free of charge. But you are welcome to buy me a virtual beer, while maintaining safe social distancing, of course)
Cut the immoral, unethical bullcrap!!
The money is going right back into the economy anyways.
What good is debt if your not going to use it?
Unless you put it under your mattress Canadian citizens are now 73 BILLION dollars richer.
And the great global PONZI scheme keeps being fed.
There was never a plan for governments to pay off their debts anyhow.
#76
That’s good.
Apparently the CERB applications are on the honour system. Which just sounds insane to me. I hope that’s wrong, but those golf bros make me doubt it.
Although I would support a full-on UBI, the CERB is not that.
Furthermore, people like this golfing buddy who claim the CERB without needing it will be caught at tax time, and they will be caught EASILY. The reason being that the CERB is only meant for people whose income has crashed to zero. Laid off. No income. Not even driving for Uber. Side gigs forbidden. If you receive ANY income in months for which you claimed the CERB, the feds will immediately notice and claw it back.
That being said, I think the government should do SOMETHING for people who may not have been laid off, but are still struggling. Somebody cut down to 10-20 hours per week is probably not in a good place financially. But as of right now, the CERB is not it.
Well Garth, Easter has now passed, so what’s T2’s “PLAN”?? He still doesn’t have one, does he? Are the business leaders of this nation not looking for some accountability in regards to the complete destruction of our economy and businesses? The mayor of Vancouver announced today that the city is now at risk of bankruptcy. So if the Police and Fire personnel won’t get paid, then what? T2 We need a plan and “NOW”!!!!!
Re: #69 Piano_Man87 on 04.13.20 at 4:02 pm
From what I’ve read you have to have worked in the last 52 weeks or be disabled or care for someone next to death or have the Coronavirus.
I don’t qualify for CERB, so I’m not applying. If I did qualify, I would. Simple as that. And yes, the government should have made it means tested.
The reference was exclusively to CPP, which you contributed to. You gave nothing towards this. – Garth
While true everyone is going to have to pay it back. So why should a “contract worker” who never paid EI benefits get free money while contributing individuals get the same? Why should govt employees at home doing nothing get a full salary?
I’ve lost the ability of making 250k a year because of covid but I’m sure I’ll be the one getting squeezed to pay back the feds borrowed money. I took a job making 100k it sucks but it’s better than nothing. And yes I applied for the 2k a month. That’s my way of protesting.
If you don’t want your dog to jump on the counter, don’t give him bacon when he does it.
#24 NFN_NLN on 04.13.20 at 2:54 pm
https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/canada-emergency-response-benefit-anyone-can-get-it-but-might-have-to-pay-it-back
According to a report from the Toronto Star, anyone who applies for the CERB will receive it, regardless of whether they would qualify or not.
However, that doesn’t mean they won’t be checked up on later regarding their employment and income status.
“Come tax time next year the (government) would be able to verify all the eligibility criteria,” a spokesperson for the Federal Minister of Employment told the Star.
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Out of curiosity I went to view the CERB form
-you have have a SIN
-you must have at least $5000 employment income in the last 12 months
-you must have lost job/laid off/taking care of sick, kids, or quarantined
Second page notes you have to certify all is true
AND it says filing a false report is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE
Call me stubborn or selfish but if someone has had the chance to be financially secure and has not acted on it. Why should I pay more taxes for them to get there 2000 dollars and not take it myself when I will in fact have to pay more taxes anyways. Would you not take it knowing its gonna be available for the next 14 weeks but what about after that. When I go back to work it will be a year before we are half as busy as we used to be.
Riley Forge
Whistler BC
Garth, PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS ACT IN THEIR OWN SELF-INTEREST! It has always been this way and it will ALWAYS be this way.
The two prime examples? They are always discussed on this blog and all over the media, mainstream or social – the boomers and the millennials.
The boomers voted for everything for themselves because of the good times they were experiencing and now that the millennials are coming of age, they want it all to come to them, because of the perceived bad times they are having – UBI is a great example. Money for nothing. So basically the same as the boomers but just a couple of generations apart.
I asked the question a week or two ago – does anyone even care about government debt? Apparently according to the commenters on this blog, no. However, every government throughout history has eventually collapsed because of – you guess it – sovereign debt. Every government. A modern example is Argentina. Eventually the sovereign debt bubble pops. But the theory today is that governments can spend as much as they like and it doesn’t matter. It does. That’s why our spending power keeps going down. People call it inflation but the reason it keeps inflating is so that the money becomes worth less and less therefore it becomes cheaper for the government to pay it back.
Anyway, my wife was laid off, applied for EI originally and then received the CERB. We are good as long as I’m still working and receiving a full salary. We have enough savings as well. I’m not too worried unless we believe T2 that we’ll have to wait 12 to 18 months before a vaccine (which I don’t think will ever come), then all bets are off the table for me because who knows how long my employer can hold out.
Benefits are the flip side of taxes, don’t you agree? It is smart to reduce your taxes owing as much as legally possible. So is it wrong to try to maximize benefits? Our family definitely tries to lower our net taxable income (e.g. thru RRSP contribution) to get more Canada Child Benefit and Child Disability Benefit. Shouldn’t it be the government who sets it up correctly so that it functions as intended?
The $2000 government largesse is strangely familiar with a situation that existed in a central European country I am familiar with. Standard national take home pay was 2000 units of their currency. Catch was if one could not secure a job the government would find one for him. Alternative was prison… They even had a limerick to the effect: “Whether you stand up or lie down 2000 is your entitlement” (I cannot make it rhyme, but for the poets among the blog dogs, go ahead and try.) Regardless, since 2000 was guaranteed and unemployment was illegal work ethic became a joke, productivity of the nation went through the floor and in time a sense oh hopelessness and pessimism enveloped everything. Once socialism was overthrown things changed in a hurry and within a decade the country’s productivity returned to the place proportional to its size and population in Europe.
Canada is moving backwards but I fear that until people experience the dire effects of Marxism first hand the march towards socialism will continue in Canakistan.
Garth: How am I supposed to answer question 3 if I don’t qualify?
#102 Free Investment Advice – Worth Every Penny!
What kind of insurance companies are you speaking about? Life insurers? Health insurers? Property & Casualty Insurers?
What kind of increased claims or decreased premiums are you predicting and why? What is the problem with insurance stocks?
I get that some insurance companies had a lot of problems in 2008 because of falsely “safe” assets like Mortgage Backed Securities that ended up worthless; but I don’t know that I’d say that’s a problem in the post GFC world.
Curious to know.
I don’t know…I just checked out:
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/ei/cerb-application.html
Rules look pretty obvious. I wouldn’t mess with it for $500/week.
But I guess maybe I am fool for being honest?
i>The $2,000-a-month payment (for 16 weeks) is intended to support people who have lost their jobs to Ms.Virus, are in quarantine or must care for kids (since all the teachers went home). In other words, people without income. The feds have made it simple – three clicks and the cash is on its way. If nobody else applies (and they will), this will cost us $49,000,000,000 over four months. This is but one piece of the pandemic bill which will raise the annual deficit from just over $20 billion to almost $200 billion. Your grandchildren will still be paying for it when they retire.
okay here’s a question to the former Minister of Revenue
how hard would it be to have an office to check for fraud? Do you need individual court orders to the banks? Do you need a bit of legislation to make this a one click operation?
I see a meaner future.
Garth,
Good post as usual-we need a “snitch” line. I think it would be a good idea to reel in the abusers. Greedy Bastids: Beware.
I made a mistake on the first question
My cash flow didn’t change with dividend income and c pp
But my portfolio took a 6 figure hit
I’m not worried about though as I don’t need any of it and I expect it to recover within one or two years
I miss going out to restaurants , and the line ups for stores is the only difference I experience
The problem lies with the disadvantages of going against the herd. In cultures that value personal responsibility and putting priority on the greater good, it’s seen as a given that individuals will think about the big picture and act accordingly. As a result, everyone benefits and society prospers. As the child of Swiss immigrants, I grew up thinking this way.
The problem is that when such an individual thinks this way in a culture where everyone else is looking out only for themselves, he gets taken advantage of, and no one even appreciates him for it; if anything, society sees him as a sucker or an idiot.
In a country like Canada, where the government is going to spend like a drunk starlet no matter what the individual does, and the individual is forced to have his tax dollars go into this cause, he can be forgiven for playing by the rules that the herd has forced upon him.
I work in aviation and my employer immediately moved to lay off the vast majority of its employees in order to save its billions in cash reserves. Now my employer has hired everyone back since the government has announced it’s footing the bill to pay everyone 75% of their salary. The CEO has made the laudable decision of foregoing his entire salary while this all plays out. This gesture is blunted by the fact that he likely already earned more in the first 3 months of this year than I will in my entire lifetime (and I already make a livable salary).
And people think that I should be refusing this government-sourced money (and quitting my job in order to do so), even though I’ll be paying my share of the tax burden for decades to come, regardless of what I choose?
Many of the bloggers on this site appear to think that taking the money is OK whether they need it or not. Is this what we have come to? Me, Me, Me. Methinks it is a sign of the times. When a government is seen to not care about its finances, why should people care? Grab a piece while one can they say. It is sad but a true statement of what we have become. Don’t tell people to not do some thing while the gov’t does exactly the same thing.
Hey Garth,
What are some examples of “debt infused assets” versus “real wealth”?
Take it , or don’t it …hmm….let me think ..
Took it !!
Hahah , I’ll play along with the stupidity. Shut it down for say 6 mths , when the bankrupcies fly over 1 million Canadians then reconsider , ‘safety’ first , hahaha
Canadians hands down the dumbest lot
I dont get. Please explain it to me as you would a 7 year old as I have my BS filter on high.
2008 and now 2020 trillions upon trillions of dollars was created to bail out the too big to fail. From the click of a keyboard and thats OK.
Why is it not OK for the average Jill to do the same? Take money for nuthin’ Both scams. Only with Jill scamming her self righteous neighbour blows a gasket about morality. Divide/Conquer. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Kids just learning from there parents ..errrr bankers I guess
#40 Figure it Out on 04.13.20 at 3:19 pm
When financial advisors allocate investments and withdrawals between registered and non-registered accounts for retired folk, the plan typically attempts to maximize OAS eligibility to the extent possible, does it not?
OAS is a universal program — it doesn’t require an individual to contribute to be eligible. And, having done taxes for recipients, I can tell you that plenty of people who receive it don’t need it.
And it is clawed back. – Garth
///////////////
Clawed back based on income.
A good financial advisor would work around having it clawed back by seeing that investment portfolio is harvested in an efficient manor.
Not based on need or net worth.
I’m not a high earner, not even close. Barely making 30k after taxes, CPP, and EI. However I was lucky enough that I didn’t lose my job because I work in the hospitality industry. I can actually game the system and get the 2k a month, but I won’t because it’s just egotistical and selfish. A strong country is made by unity, not by people that are egotistical and short sighted. Thinking that they’re smarter than the rest of us, they are not. So to everyone that’s gaming the system right now, go shove a golf stick up your as@&le.
Let the good times roll!! To quote an old adage from my long ago home village, “Why work and have nothing, when you can do nothing and have nothing”
#106 Dee on 04.13.20 at 4:51 pm
Well Garth, Easter has now passed, so what’s T2’s “PLAN”?? He still doesn’t have one, does he?
======================
No…..we have an epidemic of failed leadership.
I am watching blogs like Ice Age Farmer….that is duly noting supply chain of food getting seriously disrupted.
Pork, beef and poultry processors are shutting down, which has the backwash effect of not having young animals enter the cycle.
Animals ready for market are simply being killed and buried.
” Cutting cheques ” simply doesn’t cut it.
Be great to see the average age group that takes advantage of the funds…needed or not. I would bet that it will be made up of mainly – ______________________
I LOVE MY DEBT It’s made me RICH!!
Government just invested 70+ Bil directly into their own country.
They too will end up richer because of it.
Garth – Chill-out and make your debt make you rich too.
Oh Wait……
#33 Howard on 04.13.20 at 3:08 pm
Another thing.
Has the government explained why EI is all of a sudden not considered sufficient support for a currently unemployed individual?
$$$$$$…
When I read the rules to qualify for CERB, I concluded that my son, laid off and entitled to EI, could not claim CERB. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I have a more serious issue to fret over than the virus. I did a rough calculation of my tax bill. Paying it’ll kill me sooner than COVID-19.
When that happens, just “Let my bones bleach out on the desert. That’s the cowboy way to go.” *
WUL
M64Oil Sands Area – The Land that Warmth Forgot
* Tom Russell Band – “Tonight We Ride” – Available on YouTube Letterman Performance – “We’ll rob the liquor store, run up the whorehouse stairs.”
#10 Me on 04.13.20 at 2:37 pm
During a state of emergency, the left coast has allowed golf to continue? Either a made up story used as precursor for today’s post or…that is all.
—————————————
Yes, golf is open on the Left Coast:
“Fraser Health Authority’s CEO Says “Golf To Stay Open…”
As reported in this afternoon’s edition of the Daily Hive Vancouver, golf courses are permitted to stay open as long as the course can ensure staff and golfers follow physical distancing rules.
Dr. Victoria Lee confirmed that there has been no provincial directive thus far that golf courses should be closed and with “Outdoor places like parks or golf clubs, it really depends on adequate physical distancing that can take place.”
Dr. Lee also confirmed that the health authority is working with golf courses to ensure compliance.”
issued by NGCOA on April 9/20 at 5:55 p.m.
Here’s one example of unofficial STEALING of taxpayer money:
BC Sheriffs
Court work has been eliminated so much that 75% of BC’s sheriffs are being paid to STAY HOME. They are Peace Officers and should be out on the streets enforcing the pandemic rules set forth by the Health Officers but they are STEALING from the public by collecting FULL PAY while they sit at home doing nothing.
Maybe when the government addresses this theft THEN they can start asking questions as to why I am applying for the free $2,000.
There are MANY other gov’t branches stealing from the public during this crisis but it’s considered LEGAL for them because they are gov’t workers.
It’s time the general public takes back what’s theirs.
Those that are ripping off the system in an illegal fashion will likely have some questions to answer later on from the CRA.
The more interesting question is of taking the benefits if you 110% qualify, even when you don’t need the money.
I’ve already made my position known, and already some have launched their eyeballs down the hallway over it.
Maybe the Libs should have put some restrictions on it? My eldest who is still in high school qualifies for this freaking benefit. What did the Libs think would happen? There are likely tons of folks who are cashing in on this in an illegal fashion, or opportunistically but legally (like myself).
I think the 6 million recipients will take the cash as long as the restrictions on open business last. After that it should drop like a stone. The longer the restrictions last, the lighter the stone will be.
Isn’t CERB considered taxable income? They’ll get back 30-52% of it anyways won’t they?
I don’t know, I’m not getting it. I will be taking advantage of any programs I am available for. This has been a headache amplified by a no-plan government, with absolutely no plan going forward that we’re privvy to.. sorry, but telling everyone to wait for normalcy for a vaccine is nonsense – no vaccine for any coronaviruses to date… I would think people taking CERB may be hedging their future ability to make income.
Our teacher sends out an email Monday morning saying what the kids should do all week. 5 hours of total school work. We never hear from her the rest of the week. They still get full salary, vacation and the summer off, for a few hours of work every week. Not one phone call from our kids teacher or email or video lesson. Meanwhile the unions are trying to start a big outrage over the layoff of some support staff and administration since the schools are closed. We have become a society of always expecting something for nothing, so I’m not surprised. However when does the train stop, when is the debt going to be to much? How much higher can we tax people for mediocre government services, always wanting more pay for less work.
Not worried about federal spending AT ALL.
It’s ONLY accounting.
The GOLD standard was abolished in the 30s.
These crooks that run society knew what they were up too.
#102 Free Investment Advice – Worth Every Penny! on 04.13.20 at 4:43 pm
Check your portfolios carefully.
If you hold any individual insurance stocks, dump them now.
================================
Good post…..I’ve been watching that sector.
I noted a few posts back that a major tennis even got a payout of over $200 MILLION due to cancellation.
I have a pretty strong hunch the Big Boys have been insured for “Major Acts of God “etc…with multi -million dollar payouts.
This then feeds into what crumbs are left for rest of us and our claims. The condo market will get hit even harder than it was previously.
We are simply seeing the start of the great UNwinding.
I can only say that government employees getting full salary and benefits would be crying fowl if were told that they were going to by laid off due to the covid 19 shut down This would put greater pressure on all Canadian governments to take a different approach in ending our removal of civil liberties.
My wife and I have been financially hyper-responsible for years. Paid-off condo, paid-off cabin, home haircuts, eating out maybe twice a year, one car only, etc. She is going back to school after a decade as a SAHM and was planning to substitute-teach when the semester is done. With that not happening, she applied for CERB despite us having a seven-figure net worth. Why?
This government has made it abundantly clear that it is not our friend:
1) First, it introduced a new income tax bracket. I was in it.
2) Then, it disallowed “sidecar” professional corporation arrangements.
3) Then, it changed the rules on child care benefits so we get nothing, despite having two kids and me being a sole breadwinner.
4) Then, it disallowed income splitting with a spouse through a professional corporation completely.
5) Now, it will probably increase the capital gains inclusion rate.
Every single measure introduced since 2015 has made it clear that we are a paycheque intended to subsidize those less responsible. Relatives with crappy jobs but three kids are pulling in $12,000 in child care benefits, for example. We stopped at two kids thinking we could not afford three. We get zilch but are taxed to pay for their kids.
So yes, when there is a legitimate entitlement to CERB, we are taking it. After all, we fully expect our taxes to be increased yet again to pay for it all.
balancing the books” is just another name for boomers robbing younger generations. Why they did not balance the books while accumulating?
Now we are going after your gains and your assets and we will grow vegetables on your golf courses. Organic vegetables, of course.
Austerity brought Hitler to power. We like Justin more.
This is the point where all those “I would pay more if asked…” during the tax the evil doctors campaign the other year need to step up. Please pay more for the rest of us who are forced to lose income. Anyone?
As I mentioned in my comment a couple of days back, I’m one of the people who falls through the cracks with CERB.
My income has dropped a lot because of COVID, but I’m still receiving around $1200 CAD a month in residual commission income from an online business I’m involved with (varies every month). Because of that, I don’t qualify for CERB. There are many others in the same boat – freelancers, gig economy workers etc who have lost a big chunk of income, but still have some coming in so they don’t qualify.
Late last year I finished paying off a huge amount of debt and for the first time in 20 years was debt free. I then started to save and had put away around $5k before COVID hit. Now with my income cut in half, it looks like I may need to tap into that money if this goes on for much longer. It’s not much, but at least I have it.
I know for a fact there are some people in my situation who applied for CERB anyway. That will likely come back to bite them later – I’m not going to follow in their footsteps. The way I see it, we’re all going to be paying for this bail out down the road whether we qualify for the money or not. I wish more people would think about that before taking it, if they don’t really need it.
I have seen conversations about claiming the CERB in some facebook groups I am part of, namely the Amazon FBA groups where sellers are complaining their sales are down, but they are still technically making income, but not enough. So that’s a grey area, because they are still making some income.
Someone replied to that post saying that CRA will be reviewing your income over that period to see if you have in fact *not* been making money.
So those dudes in your above post who decided to claim even though they were still employed may see consequences come tax time…right?
Here is some fun with numbers.
Employee A worked at a clothing store for $14/hr pre shutdown and made $2240/month ($14x40hrx4wk) until the forced shutdown. Now Employee A gets $2000/month from CERB.
Employee B still has a job at the grocery store where they are bumping the pay to $16/hr and now makes $2560/month. ($16/hrx40hrsx4wk).
Not much of a difference. Many Employee B’s might rather be laid off
If you do NOT need the CERB money (Canada Emergency Relief Benefit), will you take it anyway
……….
awfully worded. So Garth those that are OUT of a job becasue of COVID and ARE SAVERS shuold not take it?
YES IM TAKING IT, THEY SHUT ME DOWN, they were asleep at the wheel and closed the economy
Went to school for 17 years, worked for 35 years mostly self employed. No EI, no benefits, no pension, no vacation pay. I paid all my taxes and I have no debt. Now apparently I’m what’s wrong with society. I will starve before I take one penny of CERB. The grasshoppers can chew on my bones. Don’t blame me if they taste bitter.
Comment submitted with permission of original author from the National Post:
Ross Sheppard
1 HR AGO
Thanks for a logical and thought out discussion on this. The hardcore lockdown zealots have got themselves caught in an endless feedback loop of circular logic: that signs of “curves flattening” and models being shown to be wildly overestimating cases and deaths are “proof” that the lockdown is working. Therefore easing restrictions would just send us back to square one and thus we must stay vigilant with the lockdown. These people realize that under that sort of thinking the lockdown can never end and that we are supposed to sit in our houses alone indefinitely, right? And then because they have nothing better to do than sit in their houses, they spend most of their time going online and berating anyone who dares to disagree with them. What a fun loving bunch of folks.
———————————————–
Thanks Ross.
#99 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 4:40 pm
—————————————
Connect the dots.
When I was 35 in 1988,
I. Stopped. Selling. My. Time. For. Any. Amount.
Wife worked 12 of the next 15 years for DBP.
Imitate me.
On the CERB application page, I see this:
“Note: if you are subsequently determined to be ineligible, you must repay the benefit.”
The govt should get the money back at tax time next year or hopefully sooner. I suspect that at best the fraudulent applicants are just getting an interest free loan from the government. More debt to repay in the future, just what the Canadian population needs.
I have grown tired of reading foolish comments by some suggesting that somehow BOOMERS are the reason that house prices are so ridiculously high.
Fact is, SUPPLY AND DEMAND is the reason.
There is ample SUPPLY. Supply is not the cause of high housing prices. DEMAND is the cause.
DEMAND is not driven by the sellers (boomers) it is driven by stupid people who do not understand the debt that they are taking on, who are fighting over offers, entering into bidding wars, bully offers, and more.
It’s the BUYERS that have driven prices up, and Boomers are typically not the buyers.
It pains me to even have to explain this basic reality to some.
It just demonstrates how profoundly under educated some people are to their own budgetary and financial situations.
Flame away financial illiterates. Feel free to demonstrate your very profound financial illiteracy.
#135 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 5:10 pm
I think the 6 million recipients will take the cash as long as the restrictions on open business last.
After that it should drop like a stone.
The longer the restrictions last, the lighter the stone will be.
———————-
It won’t matter if the stone is lighter; it will still drop just as fast since acceleration is a constant.
However, the force varies via formula:
Force = (Mass)*(Acceleration)
So, of course, lower mass stones result in lower impact.
#137 Jay on 04.13.20 at 5:12 pm
Our teacher sends out an email Monday morning saying what the kids should do all week. 5 hours of total school work. We never hear from her the rest of the week. They still get full salary, vacation and the summer off, for a few hours of work every week. Not one phone call from our kids teacher or email or video lesson.
==============================
There is a joke re: a person going to their MD seeking a note to provide their employer. The MD submits a comment to the effect of the person seeking to make a claim of being “INdispensible”.
No, the person says…they are worried that the employer may realize the person is dispensible.
The ultimate punchline re this ” pandemic ” is how many Gov’t services the average citizen will realize is surplus, redundant etc.
THAT will be interesting !
Fact time….
USA Earnings start tomorrow.
If they drop 30% the S&P is currently priced 25X earnings
If they drop 20% the S&P is currently priced 22X earnings
If they drop 10% the S&P is currently priced 19X earnings
So. 70% consumer driven economy with an unemployment rate the highest in 60 years.
Invest away. Hahaha.
this is no different than Central Banks rushing in to help zombie companies or irresponsible companies.
Paul Volker was the last true independent Fed Chairman. the rest have been lapdogs to the banks and the politicians.
Greenspan was the cause of the Nasdaq bubble.
Greenspan and Bernanke were the cause of the housing bubble and credit collapse.
Yellen and Powell are the cause of the current disaster.
this is all one big mess of central banking.
Garth asked for a plan, and I believe the feds and provinces have formulated one. But they are not releasing it because they want to continue to influence and control our behaviour and shape our expectations. The same holds for not being completely transparent with the data and analyses.
As of today, PEI has only 2 active cases and 0 deaths, and Nunavut has 0 active cases and 0 deaths. I can’t think of any reasons why these places have not reopened or what it will take to reopen. How high does the bar (risk level) have to be?
Today’s song brought to you by the Canadian Government
Dire Straights
Money for Nothing (and your chick’s for free)
I took the money. I actually applied for EI and it looks like they sent the $2000 CERB.
Do I qualify? Yes, I work in the automotive industry and I lost my job 3 weeks ago.
Do I need the money? Not really, I’m 55, house is paid, decent savings etc.. some of it will no doubt be taxed back, depending how soon I get back to work.
Should I be taking the money? You tell me….
Great post, my thoughts exactly.
CERB is fine, but the government needs serious auditing after this, and claw it back if needed. It will get abused, and that’s not fair.
those WITH jobs , getting a cheque and watching those of us out of a job beacuse of COVID and questioning whether they need it or not
Go To Hell
Offer it, and they will come!
Garth
The problem is those of us that have been responsible will be the ones paying for this. I would rather take the money as it will lesson the blow for me as it goes out the back door in higher taxes on my income AND assets in the near future
People MUST have the correct code entered on their record of employment for leaving job or no dice also.
@#134 ozzy604
“Maybe when the government addresses this theft THEN they can start asking questions as to why I am applying for the free $2,000.”
++++
Most govt workers are salaried employees. They get paid anyway.
You just keep justifying your theft of $2000 and promise not to squeal like the stuck pig you are when your taxes go through the roof.
Oh, and make sure you piut aside at least 25% of the “free” money for next year’s income tax bill.
Greaterfools and their money……….
Wait, what? These people were out golfing? Covidiots.
On the one hand I agree with the notion that people that don’t need the $2,000 shouldn’t take it from a certain moral perspective. On the other hand it’s my damn money (being pulled from the future) and they are handing it out to everyone else.
Things like this are fraught with the same moral dilemmas as most all socialist ideas. They all basically boil down to robbing Peter to pay Paul. Consider student loan forgiveness for example. What about the people who didn’t go to school or maybe took a trade? What do they get? What about the people who worked hard to pay for their education either up front or via paying back their loans?
About the furthest thing there is from fairness is trying to achieve equality of outcome. But we’re doing it anyway.
One good thing that will come out of this is that it will prove once and for all UBI is just too expensive to be practical. Nobody has the money to pay for it.
#102 Free Investment Advice – Worth Every Penny!
“If you hold any individual insurance stocks, dump them now.”
Are you referring to the property side or the money side?
Property side: Some confusion about business interruption insurance. Pandemic is sold as an add on, if your policy does not say pandemic insurance coverage, it does not have it. There is some talk about a class action lawsuit, but that is just fancy lawyers sucking in people to give them a retainer…..
Life side: Its pretty well the best time to invest in Life insurance companies. Get in when interest rates are low, which is now.
@#137 Jay
“We have become a society of always expecting something for nothing, so I’m not surprised. However when does the train stop, when is the debt going to be to much? How much higher can we tax people for mediocre government services, always wanting more pay for less work.”
++++
I give it 2 years max.
Crushed economy.
Historic unemployment.
No govt cash handouts.
Truly, epicly,……screwed :)
Haha, if Mike on the Left Coast won’t golf with his buddies over CERB then I guess he’ll never golf with me. Dam straight I took the $$$
Garth, had we done the plan I outline below, in 2008, people could use the profit of the largest growth in a decade and we would not need this poll.
Times when the economy is flattened like this, are also a great investment opportunity.
The government, “we”, should take an advantage of these opportunities.
The government should be doing the stimulation of the economy by handing out $50-$100K managed investment accounts for citizens, containing TSX, S&P 500, etc. ETFs.
The government would determine the date and rate when and how these investments could be sold, taxed – after they provide a healthy profit from the inevitable global recovery. This crystallization would take into account the age, income, etc. of the beneficiary of the account.
It would create a financial wealth creation, an economic buffer for the future, tailored to individuals.
It would also work as an educational tool, allowing for the first time for huge number of people to see the power of investing, attached directly to their name.
That’s Canada in 2020
https://youtu.be/-WCFUGCOLLU
I bought a 55″ Samsung Curve from Walmart with my first CERB payout. The rest will go into the TFSA. Oh and the TV, Made in China. Good move spending the last 40 years dismantling Canadian manufacturing. Real smart.
If half the people in Canada are living month to month then we have nothing to worry about people filing their TFSAs.
The CERB is still findings its way into the economy.
As you probably know, that settled a law suit. – Garth
That law suit should have never been settled.
It was pushing under the rag a whole range of issues, unresolved, without any consultation of “we the government”.
Five hundred bucks a week?
Why would ANYONE misuse this for such a paltry gain and potentially make themselves a target for an extra special CRA assessment?
#39 the Jaguar on 04.13.20 at 3:18 pm
I hope this poster is correct. ( #9 Natrx on 04.13.20 at 2:36 pm).
It shows how morally bankrupt many people have become. I hope the CRA comes down hard because this is nothing less than fraud, and it should be traceable through employment records for most.
The government of Canada cannot allow itself to be ‘taken’ in such a way. It would be a national disgrace. Hopefully they have something electronic in place to catch any weasels who think they can screw other Canadians over. The penalties should be very harsh. Shoot first and ask questions later seems the perfect approach in this instance. Let me see if I can lay my hands of a Colt 45. They may need the Jaguar’s help.
**********
The CRA will have a field day with this. CRA has time!
CERB taxes come due next April.
CRA Database to Punk: “Feeling lucky punk”
Those who need it, should use it. Those who don’t need it will likely be having a one sided conversation with the wait for it…CRA!
@MF I didn’t need a code to do the survey.
Financially worse off due to tanking portfolio. Cashflow better off, since salary is so far unaffected and tenant is still paying rent, but expenses are probably $800-1100/month lower (no childcare fees, transit, eating out, entertainment).
#9 Natrx on 04.13.20 at 2:36 pm
I read that people were saying, the CRA is keeping tabs on all this, and if they find you were inaccurate, you will get hit hard with a tax assessment. So better not spend all that money.
_ _ _
Of course the CRA is keeping tabs on it. Everyone who does their taxes online know they have all your relevant tax forms already submitted electronically.
Does anyone know if and how the government of Canada is regulating the CERB program so that people with actual jobs and are getting paid don’t claim CERB?
Below is the 4th bullet point of eligibility for CERB
“Who are or expect to be without employment or self-employment income for at least 14 consecutive days in the initial four-week period. For subsequent benefit periods, they expect to have no employment or self-employment income.”
It is stated it is a criminal offence to make a false application and/or that you may have to pay back benefits later deemed you were not entitled to. The key word is “expect”. Being self employed often means your income fluctuates from month to month. Often it is feast or famine, although “feast” isn’t the right word because if you are a one person show there is only so much work you can take on when you are slammed and still expect to do a good job of it. And a slow (or dead) month or two can easily erase any cushion you might have.
The virus has definitely affected my earnings because my main client is NYC based and things are basically shut down there. However, I “expect” to make “something” each month over the next few months. Even if it is $200 per month I am not technically entitled to the benefit. Therefore, personally I am not applying. Like myself, there must be many that fall through the cracks so to speak, in that they have been affected and could use help but none is there if they are honest and play by the rules.
There are always those that take advantage of things and that is why benefits for the sick and disabled and other vulnerable groups that need ongoing help are woefully inadequate. Play by the rules and you cannot survive. Breach the unrealistic restrictions, terms and conditions of benefits to make ends meet today can cause grief tomorrow when looked into or reassessed. Then there are those that collect, not because they need it to survive, but to pad their bank accounts.
For those that do not technically qualify for CERB but are rationalizing why they applied anyway, beware because it may come back to bite you, particularly if government tyranny is the outcome of this poop storm.
Haven’t seen a mention of Bitcoin in weeks.
Refreshing, actually.
Have your finances been negatively affected by the pandemic?
==============================
Income not affected. Barely above 6 figure portfolio is down very low 6 figures.
#33
If you are already on EI you will not receive the $2000.00 . They have an automated system that is checking certain criteria.
All the golf courses in AB are closed.
Is BC not doing the same ?
#137- Yeah teachers Have been living high on the hog forever….
btw You can sleep better tonight, in Quebec our premier is saying that teachers may be called upon to support the health system.
“COVID-19: City of Vancouver at risk of bankruptcy, says mayor.” Vancouver Sun 04/13/2020
The City of Vancouver is at risk of going bankrupt, says the mayor, citing a recent poll showing more than half of property owners are not expecting to pay full property taxes this year as COVID-19 financial woes take hold.
In a press release issued on Sunday afternoon, Mayor Kennedy Stewart said his earlier claim that the city would lose up to $189 million in revenue and fee shortfalls in 2020 could be as much as $325 million short of the mark. The city has already laid off 1,500 workers.
https://vancouversun.com/news/covid-19-city-of-vancouver-at-risk-of-bankruptcy-says-mayor/
The government has all the tools to verify later who didn’t qualify. They have full access to payroll, bank, investment transactions.
The Party of Financially Responsible People. Take your unhappy post about the gov handouts on this blog to the next level. Make them (the-generous-with-citizens-money people) hate their job every single minute of their irresponsible political life.
Flop’s Coronavirus Song Of The Day.
Cake.
The Distance…
M45BC
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F_HoMkkRHv8
A snippet.
He’s going the distance
He’s going for speed
She’s all alone (all alone)
All alone in her time of need.
The problem with government forms and polls is they never ask the right questions and never allow other means of explaining a situation or presenting information.
It is frustrating and I was going to apply for the benefit but typing out my record of earnings instead of attaching my spread sheets is too time consuming and I don’t have constant power and internet. I might just go without even though I probably need it. I made $11,317 last year and a little over $2,600 in gross income this year doing casual labor building stairs. That is not good enough for the government. Never the less I probably would qualify.
Dear Mike,
Thank you for sharing that little conversation with your (former) golf buddies. While this pandemic means that people who need the fund urgently shouldn’t have to jump through too much bureaucratic red tape, there should still be a way to prevent such dishonesty. It is improper of them to take money they don’t need and which we will all have to pay back some day. Just because there is an all-you-can-eat buffet does not mean one should act like a pig. Because they have no decency, your ‘pals’ have stuck their snouts in the trough and are snorfling all they can.
I have applied for the CERB because I am at home taking care of my daughters (9 and 5 years old) who have had no school for weeks. On top of that I have been unemployed for 6 months and my EI benefits ran out last week. I have a Master’s degree and worry that my career is at a dead end: Too specialized and too much experience (meaning “old”). At 51 I am too young to retire and yet too old to retrain (by the time I finish a PhD, I’ll be about 56. Then I’d be completely unemployable!).
An even more outrageous example was reported on Greater Fool last week. Another blog dog posted that they know a surgeon who makes $800K per year and who just spent $250K to remodel their kitchen (How is that even possible? Diamond-encrusted cabinetry? Titanium toaster? How crass.). And this surgeon also applied for the CERB because they are fools with their money and have no savings. While the inequality of their renumeration is a bit galling (Hey, I studied hard too: I’d be happy to make 10% of whay they do, if only someone would hire me.), it is their shameless mooching that really pisses me off.
I realize that I am very fortunate and count my blessings, my health, and my family. I’d just like an interesting job. Otherwise retirement is going to involve a lot of Kraft Dinner (wait: I really like KD. Maybe it’ll all be okay.)
Geez, it only took two foot waves for all the fair-weather cowboy capitalists to jump into Captain Trudeau’s arms aboard the HMS Capitulation…
M45BC
If someone was so inclined to cheat on their taxes then next year would be the year. The Gov will be to busy trying to find CREB cheats.
You need your SIN to apply.
Not hard to find the cheaters with a basic computer program.
They will all be caught, money will be paid back, with penalties.
With an abominable debt, T2 will need to be tough and show that they are going after fraudsters.
78 MR
“-house sale capital gains taxes”
No biggie as I am well-diversified.
“-estate taxes”
Your problem. not mine.
“-increased income taxes and capital gains taxes”
probably on the CGs but the income tax will be your problem too.
“-loss of citizenship for Boomers and others who
profiteer from overseas assets and convenient
addresses”
Not my problem either
“-UBI”
Maybe. I’m not necessarily against it.
“-CPP for all and OAS”
Kinda there already aren’t we? And wouldn’t OAS be tossed if we got a UBI?
“-free tuition”
maybe I’ll take some courses for fun!
#35 Not So New guy on 04.13.20 at 3:12 pm Was thinking the same thing. Don’t count this one.
“Who are or expect to be without employment or self-employment income for at least 14 consecutive days in the initial four-week period. For subsequent benefit periods, they expect to have no employment or self-employment income.”
……….
check!
next ‘bullet’ point?
going to fun when the tax burden is laid a ‘bit’ heavier on the ‘wealthy’…You ready guys? SOCIALISM…yummy
Oh it’s sickening, in Australia you’ve got airbnb people scheming to grab handouts, retirees who planned their portfolio around a dividend strategy are now screaming because dividends might be cut, they want assistance and we’re talking about people with houses and million dollar portfolios here.
Don’t ever think the CRA won’t catch you if you cheat the system, they will, and hang you up to dry! And you better have the paper work to back you up.
With the shut down of the economy, for any more months it will become ugly. One bright side of this virus, the real estate prices will sink, so people can buy for a decent value, if they have any money left. Cash will be King, as they say!
Stay clean, and don’t let corruption take hold of you.
#175 DON on 04.13.20 at 6:26 pm
Those who don’t need it will likely be having a one sided conversation with the wait for it…CRA!
——-
No they won’t. Taking the benefit when you don’t need it is totally ok with the Libs. The requirements are few and very clear. Nowhere is there a requirement to actually need the benefit in order to claim it.
Those who were still working (full time) or on EI who claimed the CERB benefit however, will **hopefully** be getting a call from the CRA.
Thank you Garth for all your work.
Can you add another Qs to the survey to include “Are you donating your CERB to charity” ?
Mrs Spock qualifies for the CERB. We have plenty of savings.
So we are going to donate the $8,000 to various charities starting with the food bank. Might as well channel some of that money to some of the charities which need it badly. We will pay tax on that income but some donation tax credit will offset the tax due.
Live long and prosper. __/\__
#195 easy peasy on 04.13.20 at 7:00 pm
going to fun when the tax burden is laid a ‘bit’ heavier on the ‘wealthy’…You ready guys? SOCIALISM…yummy
————————-
You mean the doctors currently fighting Covid on our behalf? That’s a fine way to thank them for risking their lives to save your sorry arse.
I’m on the fence about taking the CERB.
I am a self employed contractor. My contract terminated suddenly on Feb 28 (before the ‘Pandemic’). I had no other contracts at the time, but felt OK about it all as I am well connected in my industry, was ready to move on, and saw ample opportunity to pick up something new and interesting in short order.
I am now stuck at home with my kids, my wife is gone all day as she is an essential worker, and nobody returning my phone calls when I enquire about picking up new work.
Am I eligible? Whether I need the money is beside the point (at least, to me it is).
Actually Marco austerity was not what brought Hitler to power.
Hitler came to power due to the same kind of communistic, politically correct excesses that we see to day plus Germany was ruined by the Versailles Treaty and the hyperinflation wrought by the Wiemar republic and then when the western democracies went into their depression Germany was further damaged economically.
Hitler was elected and lawfully appointed chancellor of Germany and one of the first things he did was reform the currency and base the Mark on one hour of work and not debt or gold. Germany could not afford debt and it had little or no gold. The currency was a tradeable receipt for work and not debt. In Germany work and not speculation and usury would be the way to create wealth.
The government printed currency to pay for public works projects, investments in R&D, housing, social programs for the German Volk and yes some for the military but most of it went to the main street economy to get the economy up and running and to prevent a communist revolution. Within 3 years unemployment vanished and Germans were doing much better while the other western nations were suffering from the great depression. People bought homes, cars and went on vacations and most important they had hope for a better future. That is why Austria voted 99% +/- to peacefully join with Germany in 1938.
They wanted in on some thing that worked.
Yes it’s a total slap in the face to some people and completely irritating.
But why are people focusing on this being a local government issue? Has anyone not been paying attention that this is happening across multiple governments all over the world? For some reason, nobody cares. It doesn’t matter. Same old Libtard conversation, no real understanding of the global resolution and global playbook on these centralized bank actions across multiple continents.
When you have a co-ordinated action with multiple countries copying each other’s playbooks, synced in unison by hours, you have no real reason to even question what our government is doing. They have no choice.
Yes a few more bucks here, few less bucks there, but if that’s what bothers you, it’s now time to stop worrying about an individual government is doing and start thinking about this in terms of a world economic scale. What does the world economy want over the next 12 to 18 months?
Even if it is $200 per month I am not technically entitled to the benefit. Therefore, personally I am not applying.- Coho
I would be applying myself because I know they are going to change the program. The change will be 2000 – what you earned that month.
Not only do the SJW jump on the dole right away, they start shaming the people who are going to paying for their sorry a$$ and wont allow them to return to work by easing the shutdown.
When the economy returns, I hope every business owner fills their shops with automation and those moisters rot in their parents basement.
#150 Wrk.dover on 04.13.20 at 5:27 pm
#99 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 4:40 pm
—————————————
Connect the dots.
When I was 35 in 1988,
I. Stopped. Selling. My. Time. For. Any. Amount.
Wife worked 12 of the next 15 years for DBP.
Imitate me.
—- –
Man, I’d love to carbon copy that deal, but I’m thinking Ms. IH will strongly oppose!
Early retirement for both of us would be nice, but there won’t be enough in the kitty at 55 to cover till 60. After 65 there should be plenty, it’s that hole from 55-60.
I’m probably going to stay the course: work, vote, keep costs and taxes low, and hope for the best. Maybe we get lucky.
BINGO! I can’t out bid the Fed for stocks.
So I won’t try. Print away fellas.
money for CERB will be added to Canada’s long term debt pile
CERB will be taxed
the debt pile will NOT be paid down with the CERB taxes collected
but , rather T2 will have new tax revenue to burn in his vote buying socialist furnace
there is method to their madness in not means testing the CERB benefits
T2 gets to further expand the national debt due to the crisis and gets future tax revenue to continue to buy votes
Canadians don’t have a clue
they wi
#153 Sail away on 04.13.20 at 5:33 pm
#135 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 5:10 pm
I think the 6 million recipients will take the cash as long as the restrictions on open business last.
After that it should drop like a stone.
The longer the restrictions last, the lighter the stone will be.
———————-
It won’t matter if the stone is lighter; it will still drop just as fast since acceleration is a constant.
However, the force varies via formula:
Force = (Mass)*(Acceleration)
So, of course, lower mass stones result in lower impact.
—- –
Of course. It was a feeble attempt at a little poetic fiction.
#140 Peter Bartl on 04.13.20 at 5:18 pm sez:
“I can only say that government employees getting full salary and benefits would be crying fowl if were told that they were going to by laid off due to the covid 19 shut down This would put greater pressure on all Canadian governments to take a different approach in ending our removal of civil liberties.”
————————————————
Exactly. Why would you want to go back to work when you get full pay to “work from home”?
Socialism is primarily about stealing.
Ideally they want to spend other people’s money.
The primary tactic of a socialist is to use shame to get you to spend money on them.
They will also use guilt.
They like subjective vs. objective analysis.
They will try to get you to let down your guard and be vulnerable.
They’ll save your soul if you let them, but don’t you let them.
Nothing is ever their fault, they have no accountability for anything.
Sugar and spice and everything nice. Nice does not mean good.
Canadians are nice.
I think it is unfortunate that the CERB allowed for so many to fall through the cracks, whilst being a ‘bonus’ for others.
For example, the unemployed family breadwinner collecting EI pre-COVID19 that is nearing the end of his claim (not eligible for CERB because he lost his job prior to the crisis) versus the student living with mom and dad who met the 5K 2019 income criteria and lost their part-time job due to COVID-19.
Hey, so if I have a friend with a CCPC, and likely doesn’t dividend himself or give himself much of a salary, but did last year, does that mean that I – woops, I mean she – no! Err, I mean he – can qualify??
I think the only money removed was to pay personal income tax installments, which most/all will come back when the tax return comes in.
Just asking for a friend, ok?
Fun always sittin’ on my Deckchair, watching the incredible antics of the commenters here…
Audit season next year is going to be heee- larious. The government has been very clear that this is an honour system. The three clicks are paired with clear and unequivocal questions that will be easy enough to check up on next year. Everyone’s racing up to gorge at the trough. Wait until they have to provide documentation next year. ROEs, pay stubs that show reduced hours, etc. The tax coffers will probably recoup a good portion of today’s spending in next years repayments, fines and penalties.
Too much BS for my blood.
Amoral governments, institutions, individuals.
I’ll be voting with my dollars and my labor, only contributing the bare minimum to this nonsense for the remainder of my days.
Let me say first that I think people taking that money who don’t qualify for it are appalling fraudsters. But after I thought about it some more anything that will increase the possibility of the Trudeau Liberal government falling is AOK with me. The ineptness and continued bungling by their stupidity in all things continues to boggle the mind. To have that cartel of fools in charge of our country in it’s time of greatest need for good governance is a tragedy unfolding.
I think the government will extract its pound of flesh cone tax returns in 2021… EI gets taxed, why wouldnt this?
#192 Asterix1 on 04.13.20 at 6:55 pm Yep, for those poor souls who look forward to a tax refund better reduce their expectations for the 2020 return.
i think the way people view this country is changing significantly- where once there was a population that had a bond and seemed to work for the betterment of this country and felt a tie to the ideal of “Canada” and the Maple Leaf – sadly it appears that has/is changing FAST
Hypocritical is as Hypocritical does
To all those who criticize those who take the benefit: Oh please, virtually everyone and every corporation takes every dollar they can get from government including a thousand (mostly) legal tax dodges.
This has ever been the case and ever will be the case.
If people qualify for the CERB (I don’t and neither does my wife or two grown sons) but don’t “need” it then I don’t blame you for still taking it. Everyone with a good income later is going to pay for this so why should they not take it now IF they legally qualify? No, did not pay yet to fund it but will pay later.
Judge not, lest ye be judged. Everyone can do what they feel is right for them. And mind their own business about others legally taking it. That’s my view.
But where will all the massive handouts land us? Only time will tell. Pass the popcorn.
You mean the doctors currently fighting Covid on our behalf? That’s a fine way to thank them for risking their lives to save your sorry arse.
……….
most docs are out of work, you cluesless twit
@#160 Righteous Indignation
“Go To Hell…”
++++
Bwahahaha.
Go to Hell?
You sold your soul to the Trudeau Govt for a measly $500 a week…..where do you think you are….. heaven?
You should have held out for $2000 a week and a participation medal…
Why $2000 a week?
Because you deserve it!
Good Job!
Enjoy a 75% tax bracket for the next 50 years
:)
#57 BLTandfries on 04.13.20 at 3:42 pm
… people want UBI because work sucks, and in a putatively affluent society it’s hard to think of a better goal than freeing people from it. That’s it. The perception about “boomers” is just that catalyst.
———————————————-
Dude, take a minute and think about how said society became and sustains its putative affluence…
I was notified that my job was kaput on March 23rd. “Restructuring” they said. Whatever, the timing was lousy given its pandemic time. I applied for EI and much to my surprise, $2K was deposited into my account just 10 days later. The deposit said CRA EI which confused me. EI payments don’t generally come in a lump sum. Maybe the govt is giving everyone $2K? I don’t know. But I read reports of people getting the lump sum and then EI payments on top of it which worried me quite a bit. I don’t need the $2K given I’m eligible for EI. So I’ve been trying to get through so I can talk to a human but that’s not happening either. I have no interest in double dipping and for sure it’ll all be clawed back eventually. In the meantime, I’d just like to quietly accept my EI payments and keep my eye out for job opportunities. Thanks for this blog. I look forward to reading it now more than ever.
I truly hope for us all the this WOKE government does not keep us shutdown more than 2 mths maximum. The damage to our economy and fabric of our country will be immeasurable. We will not recover if this shutdown is prolonged. Once all of the people truly in need of liquidity realise they have none look out. This will not take long. Layoffs have a way of lingering much longer than need be.
Jim P
The boomer remover eh ? Ho Ho aren’t you a laugh riot. Let’s hope that there isn’t some nasty co-morbidity lurking in your gene pool or you might end up making frantic burbling noises whilst clawing at the sky in an ICU somewhere. As for the rest of the smug amoral rationalizing weasels on here, you all deserve a three year subscription of proctological style CRA gang-audits sans vaseline.
#88 Marco on 04.13.20 at 4:27 pm
#78 Millennial Realist on 04.13.20 at 4:17 pm
Run for an office. You have my vote.
———-
Good luck with that. Maybe you can raise the few hundred thousand to campaign by borrowing from your boomer parents. Or, heaven forbid, earn that kind of money on your own and campaign to make the world a better place.
My suspicion is that if your boomer parents raised such a victim, they probably got no money to leave behind,thus the bitterness. And if they did, you spend it on yourself living the FIRE life. In the rare chance losers like yourselves actually made your wealth from hard work and sweat, I’d bet the last thing you will do is spend it to get into politics to then make policies to tax yourselves and give it away.
But do prove wrong. Gen X here, standing on the side watching the show.
They are awful. Poor Garth & Co.
My partner works for a federal department (not the CRA, but another dept that does issues monetary benefits) in the fraud section. The CRA was picked for a reason to be the dept to issue CREB. Everything you do employment wise, and tax wise, involves one common factor. A SIN number. Making people get a MY CRA ACCOUNT and entering a SIN allows the dept to track your income. Legit employers send CRA copies of all T-4s. CRA knows how much you made before you do.
The other reason CRA was made the issuing dept, is that they already have the legal powers to enforce prompt payment, and collection of monies owed to the government.
Will some people get away with scamming the system? Probably. No system is 100% foolproof, but for the majority of scammers, you will be caught. It may not happen at the end of this tax year, it may be 2-3 years from now, but they will come for you and demand the money back.
“what the moisters are saying on social media”. You mean like on Myspace?
@#221 re; NP
” you cluesless twit”
+++++
Now THAT deserved repeating…..
#216 CalgaryCarGuy on 04.13.20 at 7:49 pm
For the love of God, you and all your Con buddies, call up your Mp’s and ask them to force an election.
DELETED
We already have a form of UBI for people with kids. And it’s not just for the lower income folks. Seriously, mess around with the calculator on the CRA site and you’d be surprised at how much a family with, say, 90k income and 2 or 3 kids will get. Cash!
When was the last time a couple of Teenagers came to your house to ask for some yard work, or paint the fence… Was common 40 years ago… enough said?
#212
Perhaps an example for the pro-UBI crowd? Regardless, my point is that CERB rules as they currently stand are not means tested. Hopefully that will change.
As someone who has always lived within their means I have watched successive governments at every level mortgaging our future. No thought to realizing a surplus fiscal position. No plan for the future. No independent oversight. Just spend. For votes.
Debt/ Deficits are the gold standard apparently. Financially incompetent politicians unfettered with sound moral and economic judgement shovel your cash at whatever bonfire of the month .This fiscal insanity continues unabated in good and bad times . Just spend. And people wonder why folks are flooding the CRA website for their cut?
Listening to the Mayor of Vancouver whine about needing more $ is revolting. No mention of any mitigation he could do. nada. That requires leadership. As Jim Prentice told Albertans “Take a hard look in the mirror, cause we all own it”. the truth hurts. And he was toast.
Canadians have become soft, compliant, navel gazing fools who somehow think sacrifice is for others, there are no consequences, and money rains down from God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt
I’m an independent contractor optometrist and have received no income for the past month. I am not expecting any employment income for at least one more month. I qualify for and will accept the taxable CERB benefit to help with current expenses and I will apply any left over balance to the increased taxes that we will all undoubtedly be subject to in the near future: reduced basic personal tax exemptions, increased personal tax rates, modified treatment of dividend and capital gains income, potential RRSP tax changes, reduced TFSA contribution limits, etc., anything to help the federal government recover these massive payouts in 2020. I’m appalled to think that some Canadians will apply for CERB even though they still work or are receiving EI benefits. Golf is the one thing I miss playing during this pandemic. It is a game best played by honest people and we should police ourselves in claiming CERB too.
there’s a crisis?
health ministers assistant lives next door
Gardening
Easter diner for relatives, several additional visitors
Enjoying the weekend sun
commenting to me on how nice it is not to be locked up downtown but instead being able to enjoy the space of her acreage…
getting pay check
so is her administrator husband
does’t look like a crisis to me
hard life being on the public dole while the rest of of us have to figure out how to finance this.
Silver
Here’s what people in countries that love and value freedom do:
“Quarantine is when you restrict movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people,” Meshawn Maddock, an organizer of the protest with the Michigan Conservative Coalition, told Fox News. “Every person has learned a harsh lesson about social distancing. We don’t need a nanny state to tell people how to be careful.”
Let that first line sink in.
Now here’s what people in Neo-Marxist states like Greater Kanuckistan do:
A Conservative MP is being urged to apologize after posting and then removing a tweet asking if it’s time to re-start the economy, given that COVID-19 deaths have been mostly confined to seniors’ care homes where life expectancy is low.
The posting on Marc Dalton’s Twitter feed went up at 11:30 am today and came down shortly afterwards — but not before it had been seen by CBC News.
“Most deaths are in care homes where average life expectancy is 2 yrs & 65% usually pass in the 1st yr. Time to start moving Canada back to work?” the tweet said.
Someday soon, we’re going to need to get serious about taking our country, our lives and our thoughts back.
We’re living in tyranny, whether you believe it or not.
Yo!
Greaterfools!
I was in Canadian Tire today.
Stacked right next to the exit doors and the cash registers….. Lots of toilet paper and boxes of disposable gloves….
Just what Canadians with $500/week emergency funds will need….. suckahs ……….
There’s a lot of talk about the CERB, and rightly so.
But don’t forget businesses are also getting big handouts. Some of these include:
1. Borrowing $40k and only paying $30k back. And what if a business goes under? Then the taxpayer gets stiffed the whole bill?
2. Having 10% of wages covered even if your are still as profitable as last year? Does this make sense?
3. Having 75% of wages covered in most cases.
4. I’ve heard employers may also keep gst remittances
All these business owners that yammer on about the “free market” are going to take every handout they get too.
#221 re., NP
I was responding to the concept of taxing the rich, which is a category that doctors fall in. Also, cite a reference. So far as I know it is mostly plastic surgeons that have been sent home.
Garth, I’ve been reading for years, but hardly ever comment. I feel I must say something.
My husband and I run a retail store in a small Ontario town. We were forced to close in March and expect to loose somewhere between $150k – $200k, if we are able to open again before July. We could lose more, we might never open again. We have always paid all our taxes and run a very honest operation. We created jobs in this town and run charity events and are a part of our community. Our mayor has said that people should be discouraging our seasonal neighbours from coming to their second homes to avoid anyone bringing new infections into town. But, because our town retail is all closed, people are ordering online the things they could normally buy in town. So people work in warehouses with dubious physical distancing (check out the Frontline documentary on Amazon’s health and safety, even before Coronavirus), and then drivers need to travel their route, carrying the virus around. We could easily control the number of people in our store to maintain distance. But instead people order online, or travel 45 minutes to the next Walmart and can buy non-essential items. But Walmart can stay open because they also offer groceries, along with other non-essentials. But our mayor thinks that is okay. My business is being killed by several levels of stupid government. My business may open again, but that is only because we saved, deferred our compensation, and delayed our own gratification. We may open again because we didn’t spend that money when we could.
In addition to the 10-15 hours a week I work for our business, I also work a 9-5 job and make a good wage which can support our family. I have moved to working at home, but I believe that my job is safe. But our business is now not paying my husband because we have no revenue. He applied for an received the CERB. How is this fraud, or even morally wrong? The government has killed our business, not based on reason, but based on satisfying the hysteria they have created. He qualified for the CERB using all their criteria. Anyone who willfully lies is committing fraud, but why is taking part of a government program for which he qualifies wrong? If imminent financial failure was part of the criteria, no one ever told me.
If any of the commenters are interested, there is a CRA snitch line. You can contact the CRA and report any suspected fraud, and stay annoymous if you choose.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/programs/about-canada-revenue-agency-cra/suspected-tax-cheating-in-canada-overview.html
Timely post…
I’ve talked to several peeps (and have heard a few second and third-hand stories) about others taking the CERB even tho their personal need is minimal/nonexistent/downright fraudulent.
Their reasons/excuses are many and varied, but not surprisingly most of them have been articulated in todays comments section.
Personally, yeah, my work has slowed down…yup, we’ve had a few cancellations and resheds…oh well…staying out of debt and doing a bit of saving has its rewards. So I passed myself, I don’t need it and neither does the wife. (she’s on minimal pogey anyway…winter layoff)
Plus, I do know lots of people who do need it. Not sure if that’s altruism, just a case of making these decisions for yourself irrespective of others’ opinions…or justifications.
(FWIW, I also don’t want to deal with the potential “clawback” if the phone starts ringing again next month)
Actually, my business was slower in the ’87 aftermath…or right after the tech crash…and thru 2009…so we’ve learned to always put something aside during the good times. Another benefit of self-employment…
Hope it doesn’t last thru next winter tho, or I may have to get a haircut…and a real job!
#54 kommykim on 04.13.20 at 3:35 pm
RE:#23 Stone on 04.13.20 at 2:54 pm
Have your finances been negatively affected by the pandemic?
———
Can you define that further? If you mean my income, the answer is no. If it’s my investment portfolio you refer to, then the answer is yes.
=======================================
I took it to mean cash flow. I’m pretty sure Garth knows that most investments have done the COVID crash. Even the 60/40 portfolio is down a moderate amount from the peak
——-
I took it to mean both. My finances definitely include the battered and bruised portfolio. Even if it is still in nest egg stage, retirement outcome has now gotten worse, and fixing that will either take outstanding gains, and/or more of our paycheque than it currently does.
Everyone who lost their income and legally qualifies for CERB, should take it. Suggesting otherwise would be grossly unfair to people whose occupation is classified as nonessential. Many people worked hard in their chosen occupation, and never expected that their jobs will be put on hold.
Deficit: worry about the one we are running every “regular” year. During the emergency, it is perfectly reasonable for the government to open the tap and run a deficit; provided that it will be gradually repaid after the things get back to normal.
Running regular deficit, as we got used to, will eventually result in an inflation crisis. Covid or no covid. The bond market acts like a sponge and absorbs the excess liquidity, but its absorbing ability has a limit. Bonds require interest payments. Eventually, the government will either be unable to pay that interest, or will have to drop the interest rate to the point where noone wants to buy more bonds. The pandemics will make that unfortunate moment come sooner, but won’t be its principal cause.
Don’t worry about UBI, it won’t happen in the next 5 years because it wouldn’t be sustainable. The government finances still depend on people having to go to work, earn their living, and pay taxes. Doesn’t matter if millenials fill the Parliament; no government will want the currency to collapse right under their watch.
The UBI situation might change in 15-20 years, assuming that robots and AI replace the majority of employees. In that scenario, paying UBI out of taxes collected on robot-driven production and all robot-produced imports might become the only way to keep the wheels of economy spinning. But we aren’t there yet.
The icing on the cake is that, with half the country on pogy, the feds have just decided to give famers $1500 for every temporary worker they bring in so they can cool their jets in quarantine for two weeks. I guess the idea of having unemployed Canadians pick veggies is too shocking to seriously contemplate. This sure isn’t your father’s Depression.
means-tested
…
To be fair, there are plenty of research / job creation etc. related government programs for businesses.
They support research / job creation, etc., but at the same time they also support the revenue, growth and overall value of the company, which translates as a financial support for the owners of the company.
Also not means-tested.
This was an amazing blog post, you have captured a lot of psychology. At times like these I am very ashamed of socialism. When workers in the real economy see that government workers are at home with full salary and pension in tact, I cannot really blame real economy workers for abusing the system. After all the system has always abused them, maybe this is just their chance.
I work in construction services in Ontario so I’m still working. But big builders are having trouble keeping contractors working. Their workers would rather take off a month of ‘paid’ holiday.
Does it strike anyone else that we could have simply isolated the old and vulnerable people and said to every healthy person under 65: you shall continue to work. The word scamdemic is a far more accurate term for this whole charade.
First this had to go out fast so the form is simple.
Second as said above you have to certify facts are true
Now ask yourself this why do you think CRA sends the money.
You betcha they will get you for cheating CRA has sharp teeth.
And T2 will not be re-elected and then the conservatives will come to town cut snip and cut and tax and claw back
If I were you I would never cheat the government.
Six million wow!
Oh don’t forget the provincial handouts and free rent subsidy and then no one pays rent, that’s because they are lined up at the liquor store.
This will not end well.
My #1 concern is that they slowly force each city into bankruptcy, then the UN steps from the shadows and assumes control (Google Smart city in Toronto anyone?), and/or IMF steps in with a loan and all our assets – if they are not already- are sold/held to backstop it. Collateral. “You are free to leave at any time…please first empty your pockets”
For years on here I said we live in an open air tax farm. What does a farmer control? The breeding and feeding.
Already food shortages and forced line ups.
Many have been willingly mailing in their DNA.
That linked posted 2 days ago in comments, all are in Genetics and Brain:
https://www.rockefeller.edu/about/awards/nobel-prize/
Blind trust is a wonderful thing. When was the last cure…
I so hope that it will become so glaringly evident after the scamdemic that we need to crack and smite the huge public service unions.
The daily theft of real economy worker capital to finance the government class really needs to end.
Either that or all gov workers need to have defined contribution pensions like they do in Saskatchewan I believe. Especially since you are a public servant you should share in the glories and the pains and tragedies of the real economy like the rest of us have to.
First this had to go out fast so the form is simple.
Second as said above you have to certify facts are true
Now ask yourself this why do you think CRA sends the money.
”””””’
why?
becasue i and thousnads of canadians have no income , we lost our jobs cause of this nonnense
are you an idiot?
Re #233 by conan
For the love of God, you and all your Con buddies, call up your Mp’s and ask them to force an election.
——————————————————————-
You are obviously not an Albertan. The last several years with the junior Trudeau at the helm has been absolute hell for Albertans. I’m sixty-two and remember the Pierre Trudeau years very well. We will never forget not only the NEP but every other way that bastard tried to **** us over. The last few years of his child trying to out-do Daddy has been more than any sane person should be expected to bear. Two Trudeaus in one lifetime is cruel and unusual punishment. Unfortunately the Conservative party needs a little bit of help from either the NDP socialists or the Green zealots to bring down Justin and his cohorts. The feeling of hopelessness is what has created WEXIT. If that means becoming a U.S. citizen I’m all for it. Trump didn’t become President because of his last name and good looks. What a gong show!
#141 A Borrower Bee on 04.13.20 at 5:20 pm
…
This government has made it abundantly clear that it is not our friend:
1) First, it introduced a new income tax bracket. I was in it.
2) Then, it disallowed “sidecar” professional corporation arrangements.
3) Then, it changed the rules on child care benefits so we get nothing, despite having two kids and me being a sole breadwinner.
4) Then, it disallowed income splitting with a spouse through a professional corporation completely.
5) Now, it will probably increase the capital gains inclusion rate.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bingo! I was going to do a follow-up to my post, and this was exactly the angle I was going to take.
Up until 5 years ago, I would have told my wife (who lost her job) that we can ride it out without CERB, as “it is the right thing to do”. Take the high road.
But then Justin and the Liberals made it clear that anyone the least bit successful in Canada exists solely to pay more taxes, to be demonized in doing it – and to shut up about it.
I am many 10s of thousands of dollars less wealthy as a result of Justin over 4.5 years. My wife will eagerly take the CERB. Votes matter, and people’s behaviour’s adapt accordingly…
Hi Garth! I really liked one of your survey questions ” Are you worried about the deficit, debt & national finances because of all this federal spending? ” In last federal election no candidate dared to mention responsible spending, balanced budgets or paying back national debt. Mayor of Vancouver claimed that city might be bankrupt. With the highest property prices and cranes everywhere how could that happen. It seems people who never overspend, lived balanced budgets got the short end of the stick. I agree with you , this will never teach people to be prepared for reset.
I was responding to the concept of taxing the rich, which is a category that doctors fall in. Also, cite a reference. So far as I know it is mostly plastic surgeons that have been sent home.
………….
grossly incorrect.
I lost my job to C19. I have 4 months cash in the bank but I took the CERB because I’m not waiting until it’s gone before I do something. CERB may not be here anymore by then.
I’m not spending it unless I have to so if the Fed wants it back after all this, they can have it.
#245 Dissatisfied with Government
I don’t like people that cheat the system BUT I abhor a snitch – kharma
This morning I saw a neighbour talking to her cat. It was obvious she thought her cat understood her. I came into my house, told my dog….. we laughed a lot.
Garth, Do you think the CERB will be paid for by the elimination of the Climate Action Incentive and the Carbon tax money will go to pay for the CERB?
Out of curiosity, how many millenials do you know that play golf? Let’s not be hypocritical either, there are people with no morals or principles in all age groups.
Only one way to go following your Obama wantabe.
Make Canada great again!
@#248 mel lastman in north york
“Deficit: worry about the one we are running every “regular” year. During the emergency, it is perfectly reasonable for the government to open the tap and run a deficit;”
++++
You are kidding right?
Yearly average defits 35 Billion.
This year? 185 billion and climbing….
My gawd.
The Liberals didnt “open the tap”….they snapped off the tap and are letting the water spray all over the kitchen ceiling, the floors, the living room, the basement is flooding, the water cant be stopped……..getting the picture?
#280 Sail away on 04.13.20 at 2:03 pm
When I get to negotiate the amount of tax they take, or weigh in on their decisions about where it’s spent, maybe then I’d consider voluntarily refusing an offer.
——
That’s pretty much it. Even if I did not get to negotiate, if the government took our revenues and used them wisely, and conducted themselves in a stewardly manner – I’d have a whole different perspective.
As it is, the Trudeau Libs are a nose honking clown show when it comes to money.
I got my vote, but it wasn’t enough. Now I pay them little. Most of what I didn’t pay, they freely gave. CERB is just one more example of how the song remains the same in Ottawa.
#206 not 1st on 04.13.20 at 7:26 pm
Do we have any statistical proof that “moisters” are the primary recipients of CERB?
From what I hear and read, those “moisters” you speak so ill of and with so much spite are the ones urging everyone to stay home to save older generations like yourself.
COVID is less of a risk for younger people than it is for older people. That’s what it looks like.
Young people are to blame for Drake, possibly Adele, but not for COVID, CERB or oil prices.
MF
steve bannon gave an excellent podcast regarding how the distribution of this payout should ideally occur…it should have been as a cheque to each citizen, regardless of wealth…giving out money based on “need” is highly impractical, as the definition of need is subjective…it’s another way to attempt to make nice and buy the votes of the supposed middle class…first off, i don’t think that any handouts should have been given in the first place…yup, nothing…let things sort themselves out…putting a bandaid on things to blow up the gasbag again is simply kicking the can down the road…i am also of the opinion that the need for an economic shutdown wasn’t warranted either, but that’s all spilt milk…either give $$$ to all or to none…none of this wealth redistribution BS…you mentioned that CPP is different than CERB is, as we somehow didn’t contribute to CERB…well, if i didn’t contribute to CERB, then who did? i’m a 1% income earner and taxpayer…i contributed as much or more…that justification for not taking CERB doesn’t fly with me…everyone, or no one at all…the government should not be in the business of giving handouts based on need, or handouts at all…give food stamps, or create jobs when this is over, like in the 1930s…but giving out handouts based on some vague “need” is fraught with stupidity…just like throughout history, if you didn’t make hay while the sun shone, you’ll pay for it when it rains…well, it’s raining…
#251 Blog Dog du Jour on 04.13.20 at 9:24 pm
“Does it strike anyone else that we could have simply isolated the old and vulnerable people and said to every healthy person under 65: you shall continue to work. The word scamdemic is a far more accurate term for this whole charad’
-Who determines what it means to be healthy and what is not?
-Who determines who gets to live in a home with someone over 65 and who doesn’t?
-Who gets to decide that it is acceptible for young people to suffer through the sickness that COVID produces?
-Would a large number of young people need hospital care too?
-Would the system still be able to cope?
-What if a massive number of younger people working in essential services got sick? Who would be left?
So many questions.
If you are so upset, why not volunteer your time at a hospital?
MF
As a front line health care provider, I find this troubling. Due to the “state of emergency”, I am unable to work as usual. As a result, my income is now $300 a week.
That’s right, I currently earn $300 a week while potentially exposing myself and my young family to the Corona virus. As a result of earning some income, I’m not eligible for the CERB.
How is it that the government says daily how much it respects health care workers while at the same time allowing this to happen?
How is it that people sit at home not working at all are earning more than a professional, trained, health care worker who is actually working to help in this time of crisis?
How am I supposed to provide for my family on $300 a week?
Frustrated!
#243 Calgary Mark1 on 04.13.20 at 8:43 pm
There’s a lot of talk about the CERB, and rightly so.
But don’t forget businesses are also getting big handouts. Some of these include:
1. Borrowing $40k and only paying $30k back. And what if a business goes under? Then the taxpayer gets stiffed the whole bill?
2. Having 10% of wages covered even if your are still as profitable as last year? Does this make sense?
3. Having 75% of wages covered in most cases.
4. I’ve heard employers may also keep gst remittances
All these business owners that yammer on about the “free market” are going to take every handout they get too.
——————–
Yes, you are correct. My firm’s already applied for everything.
Keeping GST remittances makes no sense, though; that would be the equivalent of charging customers a 5% markup and keeping it for ourselves.
I think the scary thing is that when this is all said and done, it could be Canada that goes ahead of the USA in getting the economy going faster. The USA seems to have some problems and continuing problem areas for the virus. I just do not see how Canada can get rid of these deficits in the future. We need to start closing borders with China sooner and also broaden trade to Central and South America. There is too much risk in keeping China as any sort of ally. I don’t care if Trudeau wants some seat at the UN, he showed that he cared more about that than the pandemic. The WHO is corrupt – look up the director general who had ties to a dictatorship in Ethiopia. They should be disbanded, as they have misled the West on the virus. Things need to fundamentally change with that.
I’m sitting on the corner lot of a land preserve with 200 years of property taxes stashed down a well. I don’t have to come up for air this century. My only real fear is getting run down by an amorous moose. If I got a cheque, I wouldn’t know what to spend it on. Maybe a new horse trough and 100 lbs of water orbeez. Always wanted to swim in those. I mashed up my old tax papers, added concrete, and made planters. Waste not, want not.
#174 Keyboard Smasher on 04.13.20 at 6:25 pm
Five hundred bucks a week?
Why would ANYONE misuse this for such a paltry gain and potentially make themselves a target for an extra special CRA assessment?
—— Good question Keyboard Smasher —-
Wife spends day locked down watching the Covid Death clock, or Endless run of Cold Case Files.
My point ::
Your question relates because, it stuns me the Stupidity of each crime solved ; all because someone thought they were smarter than the system! Nope. Same for those entering their Social Ins Number and gaming non eligible funding for $500 a week. CRA is famous for spending $1000 to find $1. And your marked now…
What about the university/college students who will no longer have summer employment opportunities? Would they not qualify? The towns and cities that typically offer summer employment to students have had to rescind most job offerings. It will be quite bleak this fall for a number of young adults not having enough funds to cover their school and living expenses for the 2020/2021 school year.
#249 Newcomer on 04.13.20 at 9:14 pm
I guess the idea of having unemployed Canadians pick veggies is too shocking to seriously contemplate.
….
I’d rather herd cats.
#183 Keith in Rio on 04.13.20 at 6:42 pm
All the golf courses in AB are closed.
Is BC not doing the same ?
————
Keith,
You’re back.
Life in the favelas not so good after all.
That money isn’t free. Anyone who thinks it is is kidding themselves. They had to move quickly and so couldn’t institute checks and balances. You better believe though that when you file your taxes next year, they’ll be asking for that money back, plus interest, if you didn’t qualify.
I’m lucky in that I’m an essential worker. Actually working more now than before, with tons of overtime. Mostly due to the fact that my co-workers bullied our manager to be sent home and I offered to stay and work. Lets be real here, how many people are perfectly happy sitting at home and collecting their free money? That’s what worries me right now. I don’t see how this won’t zap productivity. Good luck convincing people to go back to work when they’re receiving money for free. You can bet no one at my work will be rushing back. The first chance they got, they split.
Also, the Conservatives collecting this emergency benefit as a way to stick it to Trudeau…that is the most immature thing I’ve ever heard in my life. They aren’t fooling anyone. Lets be real. They rail against socialism and taxes, but the first chance they get they ask for a handout. No amount of whitewashing will cover up the truth…they’re just hypocrites.
It seems pretty simple. You need to be out of work for minimum 14 days with no income to qualify. If you qualify take it. If you don’t qualify (you still have a job or are getting paid) you would be a fool because you will get caught.
#241 Attrition — “Quarantine is when you restrict movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people,” Meshawn Maddock told Fox News.
Let that first line sink in.”
Hmm, OK, here’s what I’m getting from that. Ten days after even the last-guy-to-get-the-memo governor of Georgia found out that asymptomatic people can spread COVID, Fox news is putting a low grade moron on TV to infect viewers with her ignorance.
A quarantine was 40 days in isolation for apparently healthy people to see if they got sick. The Venetians knew this six hundred years ago, and if muttonhead Maddock had tried to storm off a ship insisting she was healthy and they were infringing on her liberty, they would have shot her and left her floating in the lagoon. Tyranny? You bet.
The bug doesn’t care whether you’re ignorant. It won’t be bargained with. It takes the smart people as well as the stupid, which is why the smart are suppressing the dangerous, id driven desires of the stupid people, using force if necessary, until this blows over. It has been thus for centuries.
Millennials absolutely don’t get it or care. We are down one job and I just invested money to start a business. We keep getting asked if we will take the money. We respond no and that they shouldn’t either as it is going to make taxes that much higher after. They all seem to think it is free money and all should take it even if they don’t need it. Now that being said every single millennial friend is up to their eyeballs in debt and love living the lifestyle of having everything right away meanwhile not a lick of savings. I don’t get it personally. I watched my family struggle through several recessions and not having much and they always taught us to have emergency savings. They knew nothing of investment but they did teach us to value what we had and be wise with spending. Doesn’t seem to be something valued anymore.
#46 Too much no there is no snitch line for CREB cheats.
Only one for healthy people socializing in public. SO many have been deceived by this evilness being pumped 24/7 without break. Let them go.
In the end, if you believe in the hereafter, all you take with you is your character. Actualized. Think about that.
#241 Attrition on 04.13.20 at 8:41 pm
“Quarantine is when you restrict movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people,” Meshawn Maddock
——————————————
This.
BANNED
if anyone took the time and actually called the 18009592019 and pressed one for English punched in your sin number verify your address and get the 2 grand this month. you will know the questions are trivial,
are you 15 years old, ok , pretty simply, are you a Canadian citizen, ok , pretty simply, are you voluntarily laid off, well im self employeed, so I guess Im not volountarily laid off, did I receive any other benefits no, self employeed don’t,
all you have to do is make 5000 net income from employment or self employennt in 2019 or the past 12 months, so simply declare the 5 grand in self employment income for you snow shoveling business that when the virus hit no one wanted to see you,
then as the weather gets better your grass cutting business for same reason, depending on your marginal rate it could cost you 500 bucks of the 2 grand, but hay its free, so 1500 net, but the 5 grand is total 2020 income inclusion, so no biggy to the millions of little people who live on no name soup every day, virus or no virus, listen who cares about the CRA, LSA,BSA, or anyone else, when your poor, you simply say, sure I owen someone, I owe lots of people if they want there money back get in line behind the student loan lady, and that is the thinking of 5 to 8 million Canadians who are going to be taking this money.
not to mention the small business loan scam etc, etc, everyone is a crook just a matter of degrees.
Amazon hires 175,000 in weeks?
Where did all the revenue come from? Small business?
I’m so glad I don’t shop there. It’s not in my conscience.
Blade Runner 2020 Flu stats now credit 1/2 of deaths in Canada to Seniors homes?
Hey Felix, didya see this from Macleans on-line?
The preening feline champions in cat vs. dog obstacle course competitions (two fun ones are here and here) can be a bit much for dog lovers. Even Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling commented: “I identify wholeheartedly with the dog in this video and while, yes, I suppose the cat wins in a technical sense, I personally would have deducted points for its air of insufferable smugness.”
F72ON
DELETED
#100 Lambchop on 04.13.20 at 4:40 pm
Our Benevolent leader is an embarrassment and a joke.
Where is the opposition???
How is it ok for Trudeau to go to visit his family, who he has not been living with, but a guy takes his kids to rollerblade in an empty parking lot and gets an $800 fine?
I can’t wait for the next election.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeaus-cottage-visit-mocks-us-and-the-rules-he-sets
—
That piece of garbage is getting ripped apart in the comments section. I think the entire quarantine is a joke, but if he wants to sell us on the importance of it AND then ignore his own advice… “live by the sword, die by the sword”.
I heard there is a made in Canada test kit being developed. Can someone remind Justin not to ship them to China this time?
The reference was exclusively to CPP, which you contributed to. You gave nothing towards this. – Garth
But surely you will give for it in the future. Pay before/pay after
Garth you have the patience of a saint to reply to those who try to suggest applying for the CERB is the same as collecting CPP at 60.
As a Payroll Manager with more than 25 years experience, let me tell you what happens if you have received EI and Service Canada suspects you have fraudulently made a claim. They send a request for information to all employers who you worked for during the claim period. They know who your employers were/are based on ROE and Tslips. The employer is required to provide the gross amount you earned for each week, yes week. You may have been paid monthly, semi-monthly, bi-weekly, etc but Service Canada wants to know each week as they pay EI on a weekly basis.
What happens next?
A) nothing – random audit
B) a Requirement to Pay – garnishment of wages, quite often, if not normally, for 30% until repaid. Sure you can call and whine it is too much and they will reduce the %.
They charge interest and the penalty can be up to 150%.
How far back can they go? 72 months or SIX YEARS.
Not hard to apply the same to CREB.
My 16 year old son worked at a fast food service making $600 every month.
He was put on lay off due to the virus.
He now applied for CERB and is now making $2k per month.
That isn’t right.
The age set was too young – and the amount set too high to randomly give out to anyone who applies.
I hope the CRA monitor this blog and when an audit is done at a later date. Anyone who blatantly took advantage of $$$ that were meant to help out people with a legitimate need should be ashamed of themselves. After having to pay it back, interest should be assessed in order to deliver a stern message.
#152 James on 04.13.20 at 5:28 pm
I have grown tired of reading foolish comments by some suggesting that somehow BOOMERS are the reason that house prices are so ridiculously high.
==================================
Ever heard of the bank of mom and dad?
Google it.
#78 Millenial Realist
You keep speaking of this “running over the boomers” but from the multitude of posts on it you have not been very successful.
This is most likely that the boomers see you coming on your bike with the big Skip The Dishes box on the old rat trap carrier, so even in their old age you are very easy to avoid.
Perhaps once you make enough from your Gig economy job you will be able to afford to get out of your parents basement and maybe then if you Gig it hard enough you might be able to afford a car (automatic as most standards require shifting, and since your generation is rather shiftless you will be stuck in one gear, most likely reverse like your career)and therefore you might actually have a chance to then run one over.
Until then I keep pedalling as they will not tip well for getting cold food.
You know it’s hard to contemplate *not* taking the CERB money when you wake up on Easter Monday to a $60 parking ticket from the city for parking outside your own house but just a little too close to the corner (like 3m away instead of 6m away!). One government hands out the cash to fill another government’s coffers.
Trudeau is right to call us a post national country. This is a time when as a nation we should rally together and make sacrifices for a our fellow citizen and country. But we’re not. And why would we?
BANNED
A thought – how much of a wealth connection remains between HK and YVR? SCMP reported today that HK rents are now falling below the cost of maintaining the mortgage (10% in the last 8 months with 4% in just the last 2 months). Likewise housing prices have experienced a 7.9% drop since their peak last June.
https://www.scmp.com/property/hong-kong-china/article/3079658/hong-kong-home-rents-are-declining-so-fast-some-investors
I slept on it.
DEFLATION OF ALL ASSETS
the only asset that is hard to obtain is cash
So, all other assets have deflated. PERIOD!
Windsor Star: Windsor’s Audacia Bioscience seeks Health Canada approval for quick, cheap COVID-19 test.
https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/windsors-audacia-bioscience-seeks-health-canada-approval-for-quick-cheap-covid-19-test
What gets me about this whole deal is how fast “conservative” people have lined up at the trough. I know many people who talk the conservative talk, bash handouts and welfare bums, but seem proud to get this money when they dont even need it. That is the scary thing. There are massive societal changed here at play. As a hard working saver, I see no option but to escape in the future to a country with common sense.
#207 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 7:28 pm
#150 Wrk.dover on 04.13.20 at 5:27 pm
#99 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 4:40 pm
—————————————
Connect the dots.
When I was 35 in 1988,
I. Stopped. Selling. My. Time. For. Any. Amount.
Wife worked 12 of the next 15 years for DBP.
Imitate me.
—- –
Man, I’d love to carbon copy that deal, but I’m thinking Ms. IH will strongly oppose!
Early retirement for both of us would be nice, but there won’t be enough in the kitty at 55 to cover till 60. After 65 there should be plenty, it’s that hole from 55-60.
—————————————–
You borrow it from your self.
Mrs. not so worked over loves the tax deduction that lives in, working full time here for us.
I may as have well awaited CPP till 65, we didn’t even use what I got for anything yet. (in TSFA GIC’s)
Are we really surprised? The herd on this site are generally well to do and financially aware and yet most admit to taking the money? Imagine the rest of the clones across Canada?? People will deal with potential consequences later after hearing their family, friends or cousin just bought a new TV 60″ TV with their gov’t cheque. FOMO once again…
Give the people what they perceive to be free money and they’ll take it.
Take the money! After all Trudeau makes rules for everyone else but himself. We are told to stay home don’t go to your cottage. However, Trudeau spends his weekend at the summer residence.if rules don’t apply to Trudeau then they don’t apply to anyone. Apply for the money it what Trudeau would do but not tell you.
You name it , they’re getting $2 : docs , lawyers , students …
Free $10,000 for businesses too , check it out !
I love this country !
Well Garth, your blog posts and reader comments of the last 3-4 weeks would surely make for a great book on human behaviour; maybe partner with a sociologist and psychologist to write it? I’m sure it would become a bestseller.
#241 Attrition — “Quarantine is when you restrict movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people,” Meshawn Maddock told Fox News.
Let that first line sink in.”
Is this for real? Ten days after even the last-guy-to-get-the-memo governor of Georgia found out that asymptomatic people can spread COVID, Fox news is putting a low grade fiddlewank on TV to infect viewers with her ignorance? The Venetians had this figured out six hundred years ago!
I bet Justin’s taking it
269 jamie on 04.13.20 at 10:16 pm
“… just like throughout history, if you didn’t make hay while the sun shone, you’ll pay for it when it rains…well, it’s raining…”
One of my all time favourite quotes! Been using it for years and as a former farmer, this is literally true as well. Nice to see someone else using it and it most certainly applies to the times we are living in…
#168 The real Kip (Ret) on 04.13.20 at 5:59 pm
Haha, if Mike on the Left Coast won’t golf with his buddies over CERB then I guess he’ll never golf with me. Dam straight I took the $$$
#171 The real Kip (Ret) on 04.13.20 at 6:21 pm
I bought a 55″ Samsung Curve from Walmart with my first CERB payout. The rest will go into the TFSA. Oh and the TV, Made in China. Good move spending the last 40 years dismantling Canadian manufacturing. Real smart.
===================================================
Lesse.
Gloats he took money he doesn’t need. (I thought a retired crane operator would have something saved?)
Gloats about spending it on something unnecessary.
Complains about the lack of manufacturing in Canada. While buying said unnecessary item knowing full well it’s made in China.
You, sir, are the absolute quintessential, prototypical, distillation of modern Canada today.
Completely self-absorbed, hypocritical, gloating, grasping, totally lacking in intelligence or logic…and blissfully unaware of these facts.
As a sociological experiment in ethics, the government program is certainly exposing the truth about Canada’s “niceness”.
#19 wallflower on 04.13.20 at 2:49 pm
Kinda weird that people with TFSA money would qualify.
CRA has this info.
The whole set up is weird.
I would take the money (if I could get it) because I will also be paying for it, whether I get it or not.
*******
Why is that weird?
Is someone with 6k in a checking account or under their mattress more deserving than someone with 6k in a TFSA?
@#308 Ed in NB
“As a hard working saver, I see no option but to escape in the future to a country with common sense.”
++++
Pray tell.
Where is this mythical nirvana?
@#313 billybob
“Completely self-absorbed, hypocritical, gloating, grasping, totally lacking in intelligence or logic…and blissfully unaware of these facts.”
++++
Western society as we know it.
If I may…..
You forgot the obligatory, “with 3 or more tats because you never stop at one”.
kharma and the CRA are going to have a field day with some of you folk.
My wife lost her job due to the pandemic and is getting the CERB instead of EI. I answered I would take the money even if i didn’t need it because it is an entitlement based insurance I paid into. I think you need to adjust the survey question to “Will you apply for or take the CERB even if you’re not entitled to it?”. Also, I have enough income to pay the bills without it, but it would be a little tight.
This from the;
“Incredibly easy ways on how to drive China berserk”
file.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-china-internet/insta-star-wars-china-tensions-in-southeast-asia-flare-online-idUSKCN21W11P
Taiwan is a separate country….not part of China.
#152 James on 04.13.20 at 5:28 pm
I have grown tired of reading foolish comments by some suggesting that somehow BOOMERS are the reason that house prices are so ridiculously high.
==================================
#296 Not So New guy on 04.14.20 at 1:36 am blathered
Ever heard of the bank of mom and dad?
Google it.
===================================
as I said, “Flame away financial illiterates. Feel free to demonstrate your very profound financial illiteracy.”
Ding Ding Ding…we have a winner!
“Oh my…I fought a bidding war and spent waaay too much money because MY MOMMY MADE ME DO IT!”
ROTFLMFAO
#270 you are an idiot. I reported that I am still working.
Your ‘What if’ questions sum up the mainstream stupidity perfectly. What if an asteroid is going to strike Canada next month? I mean it is possible right? Let’s shut down the economy to prepare.
Let us respond to evidence and not fairy tale fears and presumptions.
#311 Sail Away on 04.14.20 at 8:05 am
I bet Justin’s taking it
——————————-
LOL!
Sophie too. Hopefully she’ll spend it on singing lessons.
There are 2 classes of people in Canada. On top are the Public employees who are still getting paid/have jobs and guaranteed pensions paid for by lower class Joe Private who just added another 5 years minimum to their retirement.
I am angry. My non-essential (non-essential to whom? It was essential to me and my 22 employees) has been closed for a month now. Commercial rent/utilities costs me $12k a month that I am now paying for out of my pocket. My “business interruption” insurance only covers interruption due to physical damage to my unit. How long will it take my business to recover? I am in my fifties and my husband is in his 60s. We have worked hard to finally get our business where it was only to have the government lop us off at the knees.
Should I say “oh well I guess I won’t have to buy shoes anymore?”
I still can’t believe the draconian measures for a severe flu that affects mostly the elderly. We should be encouraging herd immunity by having the schools in and young people mingling. The more it spreads, the more it mutates and weakens. We should be isolating the vulnerable not everybody. Worse, we are setting ourselves up for a second wave. What will we do then, keep bankrupting everybody?
I lost my Grandma 2 years ago to a severe flu that went through her nursing home (she was 94). 14 residents died and that is pretty typical even before Covid-19.
I snort at these statistics each day of “deaths” versus “infections”. We have no idea the death rate because we really have no idea of the infection rate. We would need to test everyone in order to do that. Most people are asymptomatic.
I am left with no other conclusion but conspiracy theories regarding the deliberate bankruptcy of the western world to pave the way to Bill Gates ID2020 and one world government.
Damn right I am taking the $40k loan and the $2k CERB.
Rant over.
#276 Oakville68 on 04.13.20 at 10:53 pm
What about the university/college students who will no longer have summer employment opportunities? Would they not qualify? The towns and cities that typically offer summer employment to students have had to rescind most job offerings. It will be quite bleak this fall for a number of young adults not having enough funds to cover their school and living expenses for the 2020/2021 school year.
////////////////
There is a program for that too.
youth minimum wage jobs 100% funded by the Gov.
google it
@#311 Sail Away
“I bet Justin’s taking it”
+++
Could you be a bit more specific?
The possibilities are ….endless…….
CERB isn’t the problem. It’s just a dose of pepto bismol to soothe your guts in this colon cancer economy.
Honestly, if it was really “free money”, no strings attached, I would take it in a second. You’d be a fool not to take any money from the government that you can (legally) get.
However, while I might be able to apply for and receive it, I clearly don’t meet the criteria to do so, so I would fully expect to have to pay it back eventually, and possibly even suffer some penalty for having taken it. So no, I won’t be applying for it.
#313 BillyBob on 04.14.20 at 8:08 am
#168 The real Kip (Ret) on 04.13.20 at 5:59 pm
Haha, if Mike on the Left Coast won’t golf with his buddies over CERB then I guess he’ll never golf with me. Dam straight I took the $$$
#171 The real Kip (Ret) on 04.13.20 at 6:21 pm
I bought a 55″ Samsung Curve from Walmart with my first CERB payout. The rest will go into the TFSA. Oh and the TV, Made in China. Good move spending the last 40 years dismantling Canadian manufacturing. Real smart.
===================================================
Lesse.
Gloats he took money he doesn’t need. (I thought a retired crane operator would have something saved?)
/////////////////
Retired means DO NOT QUALIFY.
You’re too easy to find on gargle KIP (as noname would say), aren’t you the guy who took all those beautiful photos of Toronto high atop your crane.
You don’t let a situation define you.
You define the situation…
M45BC
A million more people taking a shot of pepto bismol when they shouldn’t be will have zero effect on the colon cancer.
Central banks have cheapened currency through long-term reduction and suppression of interest rates. The resultant “cheap money” mentality has permeated people’s minds and it will take a very long time to reverse this optic – even governments have bought into it, lock, stock and barrel. Print and pour, rinse and repeat. Easy.
Given the level of fiscal stupidity and irresponsibility present in society, how can we expect people to keep their paws out of the public purse when government makes it so easy to treat themselves?
The honor system? The average Canucklehead who doesn’t need it won’t be respecting that, are you kidding…..not by a long shot. They’ll kick that bonanza cat for all it’s worth.
As for UBI, that will mostly crystallize the deep, bone marrow laziness present in far too many moisters.
@ #3
“Boomer remover?” The dip$hit stunned pecker(s) who came out with that one hasn’t realized that the demographic being “removed” is primarily a generation older.
Zeitgeist – compliments of LA mayor, Garcetti :
” Snitches get rewards. We want to thank you for turning folks in and making sure we are all safe.”
30 second vid. Old, but it’s hard to keep up with the latest orders from headquarters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Fyg4maLWg
Haven’t read all the comments but assuming lots of posters have pointed out that putting the 2k in the markets, or into consumer goods, is exactly what the government wants citizens to do. This is simply stimulus, as we the CCB. Government is just continuing to pump consumer spending and markets.
You would have to be insane to not take the money. The guys on the golf course are going to pay significantly more tax going forward, whether they claim the benefit or not, so they may as well take the offset.
And why do you refuse to acknowledge the amount of stimulus going to businesses. Would you advise a business that doesn’t require the grants or low interest loans available to pass on them? Of course not, they should take what us available and invest in their business.
FWIW I don’t qualify for any of this stuff. Income cut in half but still working. Wife had a new part time job but didn’t make the required 5K in 2019. And we are even means tested out of the increase to the Child Disability Increase (well actually the whole benefit). And for all this, I have the luxury of paying 42% effective today, and probably into the 50s in the future. So you can bet your life, if a few dollars finally come my way I am going to grab them to try and offset the millions in tax I will pay over my lifetime. But I’m not expecting that to happen.
Just Saying…
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&biw=355&bih=620&sxsrf=ALeKk00sQvJmJPSPTrmiT8FNZ4-uE4GXUQ%3A1586873476331&ei=hMSVXsjaE8yGtQbB17LYAQ&q=tsx+price+today&oq=Tsx+price&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYATIKCAAQgwEQRhD6ATICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6BAgAEEc6BwgjECcQnQI6BAgjECc6BwgAEIMBEEM6BQgAEIMBOgQIABBDOg8IABCDARAUEIcCEEYQ-gE6BwgAEBQQhwJQxy1Y5zxgwltoAHABeACAAf0BiAGMBpIBBTMuMi4xmAEAoAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
#78 Millennial Realist on 04.13.20 at 4:17 pm
“In an unfair world in which Boomers stole all the jobs and made houses too rich to afford a universal basic income is their right.”
Good work – a pretty accurate assessment of where we are, Garth
—————————————————————
response to #78 Millennial Realist on 04.13.20 at 4:17 pm
You sound like a real winner.
Try working hard for something you have in life. Then give it away
to someon lazy. Let’s see how that goes for you.
Didn’t think so. Pffft
@ crowdedelevatorfartz –
“Taiwan is a separate country….not part of China.”
*********************
You better have a little chat with the good folks over at Wiki. then. Let them know.
“The Republic of China (commonly known as Taiwan) currently competes as “Chinese Taipei” at the Olympic Games.”
“Due to pressure from the People’s Republic of China, since 1984, Taiwanese athletes have competed under the Chinese Taipei Olympic flag… ”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taipei_at_the_Olympics
All you Reagan worshipping neoliberals continually encouraged government program reduction because it gave to ‘welfare kings and queens’ have no idea how much money we’re saving by providing CERB and other social programs.
This is an emergency situation for everyone and we’re all waking up to the fact that the rhetoric deficit is all BS.
Better to keep every business and individual afloat because of everyone is on the street with debts to the banks after this we’ll never see another real economy without even MORE massive and I mean MASSIVE government intervention.
Have you even thought about how hard it is to find good employees? How hard it is to get a business running and then actually generating profit? We can’t flush that all down the toilet.
To be honest neoliberalism handed us a pandemic, with no government emergency fund and reserve medical equipment because you would have all howled (in Reagan’s quavering dulcet tones) ‘Oh the taxes required to prepare! Oh the bureaucracy inefficiently raising my taxes for a virus that will never exist! Buying extra pandemic equipment is a socialist tax hole!’
You get what you paid for and here we are.
Serious question, Garth:
If my company is down enough to claim benefits but not enough to go under, and if the have-mores will be responsible for repaying this anyway… how does it make sense not to take advantage?
Garth, my income has declined due to this virus, the Government extended the filing deadline for personal taxes to the end of May 2020 or to be more precise June 1st 2020, work that would normally come to me in April is trickling in as individual’s have an extended timeframe, I am sitting on the fence if I should apply for the CERB, its a taxable benefit (it’s not free money).
@#336 Sky High
No matter.
Taiwan is not China.
:)
Just goes to show that people are crap.
Always have been. Always will be.
Sure there’s some good ones, but there’s a lot of poop in the punch bowl at the party.
Govern yourself accordingly.
I am truly sad that the stimulus has come in. Without it, many of my competitors would be in desperate straits and some would be forced to close shop, allowing me a vast pool of applicants to cherrypick.
Now? Now nobody’s going out of business! I have to continue taking over the world the slow way. Stimulus cash is little consolation, but my firm will take it.
I was hoping we’d be well on the way to oligarchy by now. My chortle is perfect.
#336 Sky on 04.14.20 at 10:20 am
@ crowdedelevatorfartz –
“Taiwan is a separate country….not part of China.”
*********************
You better have a little chat with the good folks over at Wiki. then. Let them know.
“The Republic of China (commonly known as Taiwan) currently competes as “Chinese Taipei” at the Olympic Games.”
“Due to pressure from the People’s Republic of China, since 1984, Taiwanese athletes have competed under the Chinese Taipei Olympic flag… ”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Taipei_at_the_Olympics
==================================================
Being pressured by the PRC does not mean the Taiwanese want anything to do with them.
Same as the Tibetans. Same as Hong Kong.
Lived and worked in Taipei for a few years. Wonderful place, lovely people. Ethnically and culturally Chinese, sure. Wanting to be under the rule of the CPC? Not so much. Very proud of their democratic country, and rightfully so. THIS is how you deal with a pandemic:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8213351/How-Taiwan-beat-coronavirus.html
They didn’t trust the reports out of Wuhan in December, sent in their own doctors to see the truth. Returned to Taiwan and knew what was going on in China with the virus before everyone, and had their efforts to alert the world blunted or blocked by the Mainlanders.
A SEPARATE country, no matter how deafening the Communist propaganda.
Educate yourself with a source other than Wikipedia, please.
#335 squire on 04.14.20 at 10:17 am
#78 Millennial Realist on 04.13.20 at 4:17 pm
“In an unfair world in which Boomers stole all the jobs and made houses too rich to afford a universal basic income is their right.”
Good work – a pretty accurate assessment of where we are, Garth
—————————————————————
response to #78 Millennial Realist on 04.13.20 at 4:17 pm
You sound like a real winner.
Try working hard for something you have in life. Then give it away
to someon lazy. Let’s see how that goes for you.
Didn’t think so. Pffft
———————————-
Not that I agree with Millennial Realist, but when have Boomers in Canada really ever had to work hard for anything? I mean come on…
#320 James on 04.14.20 at 9:03 am
=================================
So it’s not boomers using their HELOCs to put down payments on homes for their kids and to buy rental properties?
Coulda fooled me
You do understand RE is an auction-based system do you not?
This is 2 years old but:
“As intentions to buy a home continues to climb in Canada, 35 percent of those surveyed indicated that they’d be receiving financial assistance from family for the down payment. Wells explained that while this percentage applied to Canadians as a whole, millennials can find themselves particularly strapped in the midst of Canada’s rising interest rates and property prices.”
https://globalnews.ca/news/4119852/millennials-buying-homes/
That looks like boomer money to me
There are more in-depth studies but I’m not going to do your research for you
I guess after reading many of the posts. Most feel it is deserved. Many are destitute and some are angry.
Bottom line are 6 million people without work? Or lost their business? I don’t think so.
I fail to grasp all the comments Garth said take the money. Many of you are taking words out of context and twisting it to suit your needs.
And comparing this to CPP and OAS demonstrates many of you do not understand how the system works. Or why things were designed.
Google OAS and see why it was implemented. And see why it is clawed back after a certain income.
I wonder what people would have said if the government gave out food stamps and rent stamps. Instead of cash.
If you are laid off and your business is shut please take the money. Same goes for students out of work take the money.
If you are cheating the system I hope your name is published and you are publicly shamed.
Along with claw backs and penalties.
Is that not Fair? give to those in need and penalize the cheaters and stop misquoting Garth
And everyone should say thank you Garth.
#341 The Wet One on 04.14.20 at 10:49 am
Just goes to show that people are crap.
Always have been. Always will be.
Sure there’s some good ones, but there’s a lot of poop in the punch bowl at the party.
Govern yourself accordingly.
——————–
Nope. People are people. Always have been, always will. You are one of them too- no better, no worse.
The reason it’s commonly said that teenagers are difficult is because that’s when they start asserting independence. While most people become more circumspect over time to better mingle with a wider group, it doesn’t mean they are any less petty. You’ve read blogs and things, no?
No point running down people unless you think you’re somehow not one.
@ BillyBob
“Educate yourself with a source other than Wikipedia, please.”
***********************
Seriously? You think I use Wiki? Didn’t realize I needed to use a ‘sarcasm’ tag when I referred to the ” good folks” over at Wiki. Live and learn.
Only used the link because I know it’s a lot of people’s go-to source.
@ Crowdedelevatorfartz- ‘Sky High’ – Nice. See how I’m developing your creative genius? Don’t I wish though. It’s tough living in this clown world without a little chemical anaesthetic. Now that’s it’s legal, of course.
#337DFO-you should try waking up-with the notable exception of Trump, almost every billionaire is a prominent and vocal supporter of the Left. 95% of the global billionaire class support higher taxation and higher government spending, along with massively increased immigration (legal or illegal) to western countries. You actually believe the nonsense you are being fed-which is that all these billionaires support these policies because being a nice guy and a soft bleeding heart makes you a billionaire? Jeez.
#113 Trojan House on 04.13.20 at 4:54 pm
Garth, PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS ACT IN THEIR OWN SELF-INTEREST! It has always been this way and it will ALWAYS be this way.
—
So you’re saying Communism won’t work? Better alert Trudeau and the leftists.
I am utterly disgusted that people would take money that they do not need!!! You have to file a tax return and if it is deemed that you decided to take money that is not destined for yourself then I hope you pay double tax when you file your income tax in 2021. As long as Trudeau thinks he has a license to give money, people will take it. Disgusting… Remember the government has no money, the only money they have is our tax dollars… The only people supporting the government are businesses, our oil fields etc. Which the Liberal party could careless about. Trudeau wants everyone to be indebted to him, so people will vote for him and he’ll get his UN seat… Utterly disgusting our grandchildren will be paying for Trudeau’s lack of leadership for generations to come…
@#344 Howie Mandel
“when have Boomers in Canada really ever had to work hard for anything? I mean come on…”
++++
You best comedic days are long past….
I’ll be reminiscing about the 1970’s economic meltdown in a few months as the unemployment rate skyrockets and mills are actually looking for work….any work…. when the “free money” comes to an abrupt end.
“You’re fired” ringing in their ears for showing up late or doing a half assed day of work with the obligatory earbuds shutting out the world….
“Huh? Wadd yew say?
“Your fired”……
#331 maxx on 04.14.20 at 9:53 am
@ #3
“Boomer remover?” The dip$hit stunned pecker(s) who came out with that one hasn’t realized that the demographic being “removed” is primarily a generation older.
—————————————————————-
As the oldest of the boomer generation I agree with you totally. I have no fear of being removed by this wimp of a virus. The generation before me though is another thing in particular that generation in their 80s with underlying conditions. The anti boomers need to get educated about demographics and those I speak of are a few of the ignorant mils who can’t figure out simple math. Not all the mils fall into that category. Lord help us if any of the loser mils get into leadership positions.
#297 Fused on 04.14.20 at 2:37 am
#78 Millenial Realist
You keep speaking of this “running over the boomers” but from the multitude of posts on it you have not been very successful.
This is most likely that the boomers see you coming on your bike with the big Skip The Dishes box on the old rat trap carrier, so even in their old age you are very easy to avoid.
Perhaps once you make enough from your Gig economy job you will be able to afford to get out of your parents basement and maybe then if you Gig it hard enough you might be able to afford a car (automatic as most standards require shifting, and since your generation is rather shiftless you will be stuck in one gear, most likely reverse like your career)and therefore you might actually have a chance to then run one over.
Until then I keep pedalling as they will not tip well for getting cold food.
————————————————————-
Best post so far. Very funny. Needed that laugh.
#343 Howard
Not that I agree with Millennial Realist, but when have Boomers in Canada really ever had to work hard for anything? I mean come on…
——————————————————————
You wouldn’t know if you weren’t there.
#298 Mike in Vancouver on 04.14.20 at 2:58 am
You know it’s hard to contemplate *not* taking the CERB money when you wake up on Easter Monday to a $60 parking ticket from the city for parking outside your own house but just a little too close to the corner (like 3m away instead of 6m away!). One government hands out the cash to fill another government’s coffers.
————————————————————–
Well Mike, they are on brink of bankruptcy after all. They have to get the money somewhere. Nobody paying taxes now. Expect more of this to happen. Take the money and run.
@ #335
Agree. I’d rather burn my pile before giving it away to a Mil.
I just read the eligibility for CERB. Did anyone in the media think of asking T2 why is the minimum age 15?? Really? They all live at home.
#345 Not So New guy on 04.14.20 at 11:07 am
#320 James on 04.14.20 at 9:03 am
=================================
So it’s not boomers using their HELOCs to put down payments on homes for their kids and to buy rental properties?
Coulda fooled me.
================================
You were indeed FOOLED.
“WAAAAAH…my Mommy MADE ME over-bid large on a house I can’t afford. She’s a boomer, it’s HER FAULT. My Mommy MADE ME do something stupid!”
Since you like to offer search suggestions, how about searching “personal responsibility”?
Love the stock pickers/market timers who are now trying to find bargains.. Sorry you missed it, but bottom appears to have been hit 3 weeks ago. Try using a different Ouija board next time.
#359 James on 04.14.20 at 1:12 pm
First off, this has nothing to do with me. You made the inane comment that boomer money was not pushing up the market. I showed you it was. This has nothing to do with who made who do what. It has to do with the group that supplied the cash
#358 Mr Canada on 04.14.20 at 1:08 pm sez:
“I just read the eligibility for CERB. Did anyone in the media think of asking T2 why is the minimum age 15?? Really? They all live at home.”
————————————————–
To create future Liberal voters. Git em young! After all, look at our educatio….errr, indoctrination system.
#350 NFN_NLN on 04.14.20 at 11:52 am
It had nothing to do with communism but now that you mention it, communism has always failed. Not only that, millions upon millions have died because of communism. Many more millions than this pandemic will ever kill. And communism has only been around for a couple of hundred years.
To be fair, capitalism has also failed – actually more like reset many times over the course of history.
#358 Mr Canada on 04.14.20 at 1:08 pm
I just read the eligibility for CERB. Did anyone in the media think of asking T2 why is the minimum age 15?? Really? They all live at home.
————–
In 3 years, these kids will remember uncle Trudeau gave them $8000 for doing nothing. A sick twist of “Paying it Forward”?
#267 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 10:08 pm
#280 Sail away on 04.13.20 at 2:03 pm
When I get to negotiate the amount of tax they take, or weigh in on their decisions about where it’s spent, maybe then I’d consider voluntarily refusing an offer.
——
That’s pretty much it. Even if I did not get to negotiate, if the government took our revenues and used them wisely, and conducted themselves in a stewardly manner – I’d have a whole different perspective.
As it is, the Trudeau Libs are a nose honking clown show when it comes to money.
I got my vote, but it wasn’t enough. Now I pay them little. Most of what I didn’t pay, they freely gave. CERB is just one more example of how the song remains the same in Ottawa.
———————————-
You guys are hilarious. I bet you want the government to spend less than it collects in taxes too?
Teachers are so self entitled during these times. They should be ashamed! Gov should stop paying them and stop topping up their fat pensions as they are not doing any work. Then they can then go and apply for the 2k benefit just like all others that lost their jobs.
I have an assh…. high school neighbour on my street that watches his kids play all day long on the front lawn and driveway, as he has both cars parked on the road in front of other people’s homes taking others only spots away, with no car to be seen in his empty double garage, so his kids can invade the street too. To top this up he walks up and down the street with a beer in his hand talking to people and laughing like a meathead, while badmouthing other neighbours. At times he smokes a joint on his driveway with buddies. Great behaviour from a teacher! These are the teachers that the kids have to look up to now days?!!! Makes me sick!
“high school teacher” neighbour
kick the can ( debt )for a decade at least.
A decade? uk gilts, civil war, bonds the fed hold to infinity –little itty bits of d/x
https://www.gisaid.org/
https://nextstrain.org/
As new genomes come to light, researchers upload them to an online database called GISAID. A team of virus evolution experts are analyzing the growing collection of genomes in a project called Nextstrain. They continually update the virus family tree.
The coronavirus antibody intercepts the spike protein on the viral envelope to prevent it from binding with human cells.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/most-new-york-coronavirus-cases-came-from-europe-genomes-show/ar-BB12m5Rk
======================
so does the “mild’ become the strong?
reinfection?
..”All of the patients had recently recovered from mild symptoms of the disease and most of those with low antibody levels were young. The researchers excluded patients who had been admitted to intensive care units because many of them already had antibodies from donated blood plasma.
Antibodies are generated by the immune system and have unique chemical structures to inhibit specific pathogens. The coronavirus antibody intercepts the spike protein on the viral envelope to prevent it from binding with human cells.’
The researchers said they were surprised to find that the antibody “titer” value in about a third of the patients was less than 500, a level that might be too low to provide protection.
“About 30 per cent of patients failed to develop high titers of neutralising antibodies after Covid-19 infection. However, the disease duration of these patients compared to others was similar,” they said.
The team also found that antibody levels rose with age, with people in the 60-85 age group displaying more than three times the amount of antibodies as people in the 15-39 age group.
The low amounts of antibodies could affect herd immunity, resistance to the disease among the general population to stop its spread.
“This is a clinical observation we made at the front line. What this will mean to herd immunity will require more data from other parts of the world,” Professor Huang Jinghe, the leader of the team, said on Tuesday.
Huang said 10 of the patients in the study had an antibody presence so low it could not even be detected in the laboratory.
These patients experienced typical Covid-19 symptoms including fever, chill and a cough, but might have beaten back the virus with other parts of the immune system such as T-cells or cytokines.
How they did this was still unclear.
“Vaccine developers may need to pay particular attention to these patients,” Huang said. If the real virus could not induce antibody response, the weakened version in the vaccine might not work in these patients either
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3078840/coronavirus-low-antibody-levels-raise-questions-about
#365 Tater on 04.14.20 at 1:39 pm
#267 IHCTD9 on 04.13.20 at 10:08 pm
#280 Sail away on 04.13.20 at 2:03 pm
When I get to negotiate the amount of tax they take, or weigh in on their decisions about where it’s spent, maybe then I’d consider voluntarily refusing an offer.
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That’s pretty much it. Even if I did not get to negotiate, if the government took our revenues and used them wisely, and conducted themselves in a stewardly manner – I’d have a whole different perspective.
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You guys are hilarious. I bet you want the government to spend less than it collects in taxes too?
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I have no idea where you could be going with that.
Garth, how can you stand this? I’m in despair and I only read every 3rd or 4th one.
F72ON
#266 crowdedelevatorfartz
Yearly average defits 35 Billion.
This year? 185 billion and climbing….
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Annual deficit of 35 B is a lot worse than a one-time of 185 B.
Six years of 35 B each will result in 210 B total, twenty years in 700 B total, etc. Once we got used to regular deficits, it is very hard to go back to balanced. Those who have money don’t want to pay more taxes, those with no money don’t want their support programs to be cut.
If we had regularly balanced budgets and a one-time 185 B borrowing blip that comes to end once the virus is defeated, we would be in a much better position.
If CERB wasnt enough to ensure there will be, business as usual in the real estate market, the moment restrictions are lifted, remember CMHC?
Garth informed us this is the insurance buyers pay with less than 25% down and, “its only there to protect the banks”…
Well, turns out they are using this reserve a a stop gap for all those that bought and cant make mortgage payments on basically anything…primary houses, rental housing,…anything!
Nice to see the housing investors have insurance…that should push prices up in a few months
#360:
“Love the stock pickers/market timers who are now trying to find bargains.. Sorry you missed it, but bottom appears to have been hit 3 weeks ago. Try using a different Ouija board next time.”
Funniest comment on this thread – we’re so overinflated it hurts. Come back and say that again in three months, and then we’ll see how brave you are.
Folks, please do not conflate “applying for CERB fraudulently” with “deciding whether to apply when you are legally eligible but don’t need those money to survive”.
Fraudulent filing is a big no; don’t do that.
If you are legally eligible / lost your income, then apply by all means. Don’t leave the money on the table and don’t feel guilty. Boost your savings, or if you really can’t help feeling guilty, send the money to a charity.
Taxpayers are entitled to all legal tax reductions and payouts. Think of this as a refund on taxes you paid in the past (or your parents did if you are young and just recently entered the workforce).
In all walks of life, one can find giving, caring, altruistic individuals, who work for the love of the job and the furtherance of humankind.
Sometimes, these laudatory examples of evolved sensibility toil for free, selflessly donating their salary to charities in the interest of serving the greater good and encouraging the good work of others.
Standing tall among these kings of humanity and paragons of virtue, we find none other than the great man himself:
Donald John Trump
#361 Not So New guy on 04.14.20 at 1:21 pm
#359 James on 04.14.20 at 1:12 pm
First off, this has nothing to do with me. You made the inane comment that boomer money was not pushing up the market. I showed you it was. This has nothing to do with who made who do what. It has to do with the group that supplied the cash
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I get it now, it’s all the boomers fault because…they had money to loan to their financially illiterate spawn and the spawn was too stupid to know that they were making a mistake.
Nice try at backpedaling…but…
This is a nothing more than a remarkable demonstration of passing the buck, refusing blame and not taking responsibility.
Donald…is that YOU?
#315 Mr. Crowdedelevator re -common sense country and nirvana et al = Sweden. Or is that Ikea