Dr. Garth

Be informed we have decided not to blockade this blog in support of our people, the Greater Fools. Instead, we’ve set up a financial healing lodge. The hereditary Dr. has arrived… just in time to treat Robert and Lynn.

I just finished reading Doug’s post and am struggling with a financial decision. My wife and I are conflicted on whether it is better to purchase a new Lexus SUV or lease! I’ve always thought it was better to purchase but as our much wealthier friends are leasing we are torn. My better half feels if we lease and there is a serious mechanical problem then we just return the vehicle but if we purchase then we have to either get warranty coverage or pay for it out of pocket. I don’t feel it’s that cut and dry and I hate going into a dealership as I really don’t trust these guys any more then I trust a real estate agent. My better half also feels we could try leasing for three or four years and if we like it return the car and lease a new one again. She likes the idea of having a new model every three to four years. I’ve also thought of trading in my 2014 Q60 and putting an additional $15 grand down to buy the new Lexus. This would then leave us with a low interest car payment monthly. Do you have any advice re this matter?

Listen to Lynn. Trade in the old ride and lease.

The logic is simple. First, why tie up $70,000 in a vehicle that could be invested instead? That amount of money left in your portfolio could easily become $140,000 in a decade and $280,000 ten years after, adding eighteen grand a year to your retirement income. If you leave it in the vehicle, the value ultimately travels to zero.

Leasing gives you (and Lynn) total piece of mind. If it breaks, they fix it. When you get tired of it, they take it back. If it needs maintenance, they do it. Leasing requires little or nothing down, so you get to preserve your capital. Lease rates these days are cheap. And you rent the car during the period when depreciation is the worst.

Yeah, yeah, I know you might shave off some dollars by using cash, but that’s an illusory saving. And by leasing you will make it far, far, far, far easier for her to pick out a new model in 2023. The GreatFool rules at play: (a) buy what appreciates. Rent what depreciates. (b) She’s always right.

Now to Lawrence with a question I hear a lot. Should you borrow to invest?

I write this not expecting a reply or to make your blog, but in the off chance it does, great!  Thank you for doing what you do.

Wondering what your thoughts are on using one’s line of credit to fund a TSFA.    I know it’s an interest rate vs. return rate proposition… our LOC is 4% and our mainly ETF built TSFA has done very well the past few years.   I am thinking of maxing my wife and I’s TSFA’s and using the gains earned in the TSFA to pay the interest and principle on the LOC.

The risk is if the TSFA doesn’t return more than the interest charged on the LOC, in which case we can pay that interest from our incomes.

Do you see clients do this often?   The long term prospect is, in my view, simple:  Take $80,000 and pay 4% on it, invest it for 7-8% return annually, use that to pay the interest and principle on the LOC.   Effectively investing on margin.    If things goes sideways in life and we need the cash it’s sitting there in the TSFA in a liquid EFT and we can cash in and use it as if it were a LOC again.

Intuitively this makes complete sense to me… why am I hesitant to pull the trigger?

Because it’s a bad idea, and you’re a smart guy. Using leverage to make financial investments must be done carefully, judiciously and tax-efficiently. First, borrowing at 4% means the funds must be coming from a secured LOC, since the rate on unsecured lines is considerably higher. Remember this is a demand loan which can be called at any time, plus the rate can be adjusted by the lender on its whim.

Second, the interest is not deductible, as it would be with an investment in a non-registered account. Third, you need to be earning at least 7% on the account to compensate for the above. Fourth, nobody should leverage a portfolio which they self-manage. Sorry, but that’s just a reality, since the swing from greed to fear can be swift and destabilizing. When assets swoon, people who have borrowed to buy them panic, sell low and try to trash the debt. Lose-lose.

Listen to your gut.

Now to Jesse. “Long time listener, first time caller,” he says. “If the helpline is open, I come with the following:

I am currently considering putting some extra cash into a locally managed MIC that has averaged ~7% over the last ten years. What are the relative merits of investing in a REIT vs a MIC? I have contribution room in both my TFSA and RRSP – would you suggest putting either of these asset types into either of those vehicles? (I’m 38, so can leave that cash parked for 30ish years if I keep eating my vegetables). That’s it. Keep fighting the good fight… some of us are following studiously, even on the days when it seems like everyone has been overserved on the crazy juice!

Real estate investment trusts (REITs) and mortgage investment corporations (MICs) are totally different animals. The first invest in income-producing properties like office towers, industrial facilities, malls and apartment complexes, are managed professionally and trade publicly, available through a diversified fund like XRE. REITs have done well over the past few years with capital growth in the 8% range, and own some of the country’s marquee structures. Most throw off income as well as providing a capital gain. (XRE has a 10.5% annual growth rate since inception and provides a 3.55% distribution, for example.)

Mortgage corps hold the debt of borrowers who couldn’t qualify for bank financing. Seriously. This means there’s usually considerable risk, as well as illiquidity. If a MIC dangles a high rate of return in front of you, this is why. You might never get your capital back – at least the risk of that happening is far higher than with a REIT. Plus many MICs don’t let you leave easily, holding back redemptions. In addition, interest paid is fully taxed as income outside of a registered account, whereas REITs often give a taxless return of capital. Also remember that if your MIC blows up, and it’s in an RRSP, you cannot write off the loss.

Stay away.

Finally, here’s Graeme, who has written the Spiritual Leader today merely to brag and gloat.

Thanks for all your wisdom on your blog – helps me confirm things that I believe to be true but constantly get questioned at work and through mainstream “financial” media. I’m just writing as one of those annoying people who is truly writing you to signal that they have made good financial choices in their lives and want to brag about it somewhere, preferably somewhere where someone will tell them how to make yet even better financial choices.

I’m a 26 year old on the moister fringe (I think??) who rents a two bedroom apartment in Saskatoon for $1100 which includes heat, water and internet. Power is ~$45/month. I split this with my S/O so housing costs are ~15% of my annual income. I’m blessed with a well paying job working for the prairie salt cartels and have managed to hit a NW of $250,000 with a full TFSA, RRSP and a company pension to boot. Am I a unicorn?

Yes, my son. In the independent GF Nation, you have special status. If you were modest, like me, you’d be perfect.

 

162 comments ↓

#1 kommykim on 02.23.20 at 1:11 pm

RE: “Listen to Lynn. Trade in the old ride and lease.
The logic is simple. First, why tie up $70,000 in a vehicle that could be invested instead?”

========================================

It is even simpler than that. Don’t buy or lease a $70k vehicle in the 1st place. Get something for less than $30K instead.

#2 Sail Away on 02.23.20 at 1:19 pm

During a time of national crisis where blockades have caused mass loss of employment and Canadian transport economy grinding to a halt, the Globe and Mail’s feature weekend editorial is… wait for it…

“Donald Trump thinks he’s the law. He’s not.”

Really? We are more worried about what Donald Trump thinks than, perhaps, national crisis? If that isn’t obsession, nothing is.

#3 forgotmyusername on 02.23.20 at 1:20 pm

Garth, many thanks for this blog and all the good you do. Having said that, and meant it, I just don’t get the ‘lease is better than buy’ car advice.

But that is probably because the spouse and I only buy used vehicles. And because most of what we do with cars is take long road trips, haul bikes and take yard trimmings to the transfer station.

So we pay cash for a decent, low km, used vehicle then drive it for 5-12 years. Repeat.

There’s no spreadsheet where doing that on a lease makes senses, is there?

#4 BC_Doc on 02.23.20 at 1:28 pm

My physician colleague drives a Toyota which is quickly approaching it’s 30th birthday. I think it’s off lease at this point. She’s my hero.

#5 ww1 on 02.23.20 at 1:32 pm

Leasing a car is great as long as you don’t exceed the maximum mileage allowed. It becomes quite expensive at that point.

#6 Party on Garth on 02.23.20 at 1:35 pm

In the budget released on Feb.18, 2020 the B.C. Government is expecting a budget surplus of $227 million in the 2020/21 fiscal year. In this same 2020/21 fiscal year they are expecting the total provincial debt to increase by $5.7 billion, up to $76.4 billion.

They are expecting a budget surplus of $179 million in the 2021/22 fiscal year. In this same 2021/22 fiscal year they are expecting the total provincial debt to increase by $5.6 billion, up to $82.0 billion.

They are expecting a budget surplus of $374 million in the 2022/23 fiscal year. In this same 2022/23 fiscal year they are expecting the total provincial debt to increase by $5.6 billion, up to $87.6 billion.

(Data table is 10 pages down from the top of the following document:)

https://bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/2020/pdf/2020_budget_and_fiscal_plan.pdf

B.C.’s total provincial debt in the year 2000 was $34.4 billion.

(Data table is on page 162 of the following document:)

https://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/2002/BudgetAndFiscalPlan/bgt2002_appendices.pdf

#7 G man on 02.23.20 at 1:38 pm

If you own a business it’s a great idea to lease a vehicle you can right it off. If your a regular 40hr a week person it’s best to just buy it right out that’s what the dealerships wants you to do all ways piss your money away to them buy something you like and going to be happy. And remember Jesus loves you

#8 Andrewski on 02.23.20 at 1:41 pm

It’s always refreshing to read your honest opinion Garth. For the same reasons you outlined, I suggested to a buddy to lease a vehicle instead of buying.

#9 Sail Away on 02.23.20 at 1:43 pm

Graeme is obviously making his story up, because as our local millenial ‘woe is me’ contingent MR and Sunshowers will say again and again and again, the deck is totally and completely stacked against millenials and they (mills) can’t get ahead because Da Boomer Man is holding them down, and the only possible solution is to take from the rich Boomers and redistribute to the poor, downtrodden, disenfranchised, weak and puling Mills.

Good try, Mr. Boomer in diguise “Graeme”.

#10 Modest? on 02.23.20 at 1:45 pm

Modest like Garth?

Ya right. Next you’ll be telling me a 42 year old zamboni driver will be hired by the opposing team during a Maple Leaf home game as their spur of the moment goalie, and actually get the win.

#11 Grateful Boomer on 02.23.20 at 1:47 pm

So lol, not one but 2 days in a row. 1st Flop’s great tip yesterday on cleaning car battery……but the lol for where that surly fellow blogger should put the toothbrush.

2nd Garth’s seal of approval of Graeme’s financial prowess at tender age of 26

#12 earthboundmisfit on 02.23.20 at 1:48 pm

$70,000 for a vehicle !?!
Crikey …. there really is a dumbass for every seat.

#13 Off Duty on 02.23.20 at 1:50 pm

$70 000 K on a vehicle……… I understand leasing at those #’s but even better idea is to find a good reliable Subaru or Toyota off lease for $15 000-$20 000K and drive and maintain it for 10 plus years. Use the biweekly savings to further fund Travel, Investments and New Road Bikes!

#14 Andrewski on 02.23.20 at 1:52 pm

Interesting article, re Gamblers Fallacy, “present in stock market trading “:

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200217-the-simple-maths-error-that-can-lead-to-bankruptcy

#15 PA on 02.23.20 at 1:57 pm

Okay, I buy the lease vs buy argument for car. But Garth, you left out the question of type of lease open or closed? I’m always worried about km over run since my driving distances are erratic. So how would you deal with erratic distances?

#16 Millennial Realist on 02.23.20 at 2:08 pm

Feeling the Bern…

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/nevada-caucuses-takeaways/index.html

Millennials can be annoying, like anyone can be. But we are not really ‘ageist’ as some claim. We are more than willing to put our trust in an older, ‘pre-Boomer’, who at least is willing to disavow the BS of Paleo Conservatism that has marginalized so many of us.

This is starting to look like Bernie is on the home stretch.

Will you be part of the change, or will you be run over by it?

Choices, choices……….

Sanders = Trump’s dream. – Garth

#17 TalkingPie on 02.23.20 at 2:09 pm

I’m still not on board with the vehicle leasing advice, but then maybe that’s because I’m not in the financial demographic that’s being addressed here. The fact that $70,000 vehicles are being talked about is my first clue; if I spend that amount on a vehicle, it’s likely that it will have wings and a propeller.

When you finance a new car, you also put little or zero down. You also benefit from very low interest rates; even my girlfriend’s 3 year-old Jetta was financed from the VW dealer at 0.9%. A financed new car also gives a warranty of 3 years or more. The difference is that you’re not perpetually paying that steep depreciation curve that you are with a lease. If you bought well, you get the use of a reliable car for long after you’re done making payments on it. And as far as I know, you can’t “just return” a lease because you’re tired of it; you’re bound for the term that you signed for, and to return the car in a certain mechanical and cosmetic condition. If the dealer allows you to trade early, I’m pretty confident it’s not because it’ll be to your financial benefit.

I agree that the financing advice doesn’t apply if you’re trading new rides every few years or are buying prestige luxury sleds; lease those things because they depreciate like stones, aren’t built durable anymore (with the possible exception of Lexus), and cost a fortune to troubleshoot and fix. But if you’re buying those types of cars, you’re not in the business of maximizing your finances anymore anyway. That’s fine if you can afford to pay to play, but let’s not pretend that it’s economical.

In “The Millionnaire Next Door” it was found that the wealthy generally bought non-prestige full size cars and held on to them. There’s a reason for that.

#18 PetertheSeparatistfromCalgary on 02.23.20 at 2:13 pm

Personally I prefer driving an old beater.

Yesterday I ran over a curb in the parking lot and put a small dent and scratch in the wheel well. I would be really upset if it where a new car but with my 13 year old car it only bugged me a little bit and barely at all once I realized I didn’t mess up the alignment or something important mechanically. I also don’t worry about door dings so I don’t have to park far away.

Why put so much money into something which you are guaranteed to lose money on.

Funny video: 14 Reasons Why Cheap Cars Are The Best Cars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv4yoQKJ12s

#19 DON on 02.23.20 at 2:15 pm

Well waiting in the parking lot I saw a lady open the back door to her SUV Mercedes and sitting on the seat was the Skip the Dishes food warmer.

#20 CoastelZapper on 02.23.20 at 2:18 pm

On the surface, leasing sounds like a good idea but when you read the small print, things change. It all comes down to when the lease is over and it’s time to return the vehicle. Too many miles, damage to the vehicle and many other things will then give the leasing company reason to hit you with excessive charges.
Do your homework, Google searches, YouTube searches and others and go into the dealership well prepared AND READ THE SMALL PRINT. I know people and have heard many horror stories of leasing company’s screwing people when they return the unit.
I recommend buying 1 year old vehicles, lease returns, dealer demos. Most to all depreciation gone and still lots of warranty, often extended warranty from the manufacturer not a third party.

#21 Remembrancer on 02.23.20 at 2:23 pm

#15 Andrewski on 02.23.20 at 1:52 pm
Interesting article, re Gamblers Fallacy, “present in stock market trading “:

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200217-the-simple-maths-error-that-can-lead-to-bankruptcy
——————————
Yes, interesting, the flip side of the recency bias coin…

#22 BS on 02.23.20 at 2:35 pm

My better half feels if we lease and there is a serious mechanical problem then we just return the vehicle but if we purchase then we have to either get warranty coverage or pay for it out of pocket.

This is false. You cannot just return a lease vehicle unless you pay what ever the dealer demands to get out of it. The warranty is the same for both a leasing and buying.

I have bought many new vehicles and every time I work the total costs of leasing vs buying. Buying always works out cheaper. Buying you have more flexibility on when you trade in for a new vehicle. Leasing they will charge for extra mileage, minor things like paint chips, wheel scuffs, seat stains and tire wear. The lease contract is written by the lawyers for the leaser and gives all the power to them to decide how much you pay when you bring the vehicle back. It is all at the car dealers discretion.

IMO to make leasing worth while it would have to be at a discount to buying, not a premium as it almost always is. Leasing is for people who don’t have the money and can’t qualify to buy. In which case they should not be looking at new vehicles anyway.

#23 T on 02.23.20 at 2:58 pm

#23 BS on 02.23.20 at 2:35 pm

Leasing vs buying really depends on your use case.

It’s easier to write off lease payments on business taxes.

It’s a more intelligent decision to lease a hybrid or electric vs buying.

Buying a used vehicle entails more maintenance and out of pocket repairs as the vehicles are most often out of the bumper to bumper warranty period which requires time and money.

You really have to factor everything in.

#24 Apocalypse2020 on 02.23.20 at 3:05 pm

Coronavirus now in Iran.

And Italy.

Big time.

https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-23-20-hnk-intl/index.html

It’s all coming together.

Time is running out.

Disease. Political unrest. War. Climate chaos.

PREPARE.

#25 Don Guillermo on 02.23.20 at 3:12 pm

#21 CoastelZapper on 02.23.20 at 2:18 pm

I recommend buying 1 year old vehicles, lease returns, dealer demos. Most to all depreciation gone and still lots of warranty, often extended warranty from the manufacturer not a third party.
******************************************
That’s been my wife and I’s strategy. Buy a nice 2 y/o lease return and run it for around 10 years. Works for us. Haven’t had a vehicle or house payment for approx. 25 years.

#26 Blackdog on 02.23.20 at 3:14 pm

Sorry, slightly off topic question that I hope someone can answer, but relevant as is end of RSP contribution season.

Regarding deferring of RSP deductions to later tax years, if one accidentally over-contributes by more than $2,000 prior to March 1 2020 (with respect to 2019 tax year), can one remedy the over-contribution by simply deferring part of the RSP deduction (the amount over 2000) until 2020 tax year or later?

#27 Stone on 02.23.20 at 3:20 pm

#17 Millennial Realist on 02.23.20 at 2:08 pm
Feeling the Bern…

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/nevada-caucuses-takeaways/index.html

Millennials can be annoying, like anyone can be. But we are not really ‘ageist’ as some claim. We are more than willing to put our trust in an older, ‘pre-Boomer’, who at least is willing to disavow the BS of Paleo Conservatism that has marginalized so many of us.

This is starting to look like Bernie is on the home stretch.

Will you be part of the change, or will you be run over by it?

Choices, choices……….

———

Strange. Every time I see one of your silly obnoxious posts, I get this image of roadkill in my mind.

Why is that?

#28 Welcome to Slurrey on 02.23.20 at 3:36 pm

I think your a bit harsh on the MIC’s Garth. A lot of these MIC’s have low LTV value ratios within their portfolio, the penalty for redemption is a safeguard. Riskier investment yes, but not as risky as your making it sound.

#29 Slim on 02.23.20 at 3:38 pm

Whenever I buy a new vehicle I don’t care about depreciation, if I plan on keeping it for a long time. A Lexus can easily last 20 plus years. Just like my twenty year old Acura, it still had lots of life left before I got rid of it.

But if you want to keep up with the Jones, then maybe lease instead.

#30 Phylis on 02.23.20 at 3:46 pm

Along with the tires, Don’t miss the brake wear monitoring message on bmw’s either… if it has ‘scheduled’ you, it’s your responsibility before the lease return to replace them. Of course they will accept payment if you don’t do it.

#31 Sail Away on 02.23.20 at 3:50 pm

#27 Blackdog on 02.23.20 at 3:14 pm
Sorry, slightly off topic question that I hope someone can answer, but relevant as is end of RSP contribution season.

Regarding deferring of RSP deductions to later tax years, if one accidentally over-contributes by more than $2,000 prior to March 1 2020 (with respect to 2019 tax year), can one remedy the over-contribution by simply deferring part of the RSP deduction (the amount over 2000) until 2020 tax year or later?

——————————–

Yes, of course. You haven’t actually contributed the 2020 $ to 2019 until you declare it so on your taxes. Just don’t attribute it to 2019 or count it in your 2019 contribution.

#32 JSS on 02.23.20 at 3:52 pm

I have a 2010 Hyundai Genesis sedan. Owned it for seven years now. Best vehicle I’ve owned and the most reliable by far. I’ve owned both Japanese and German. I’d buy another one in a heartbeat when this one dies. Maybe their new GV80 suv.
Don’t know enough about leases to feel comfortable going in that direction.

#33 Phylis on 02.23.20 at 3:59 pm

#27 Blackdog on 02.23.20 at 3:14 pm If you don’t correct it you can be subjected to a penalty. I wouldn’t wait or take that chance. I had to 1) write a letter explaining the error on my part. 2) get a response letter from the cra to authorize the financial institution to withdrawal the overcontributed amount. 3) give that letter to the financial institution to execute it. Hoops yes, but maybe someone can add to this event to confirm.

#34 Flop... on 02.23.20 at 4:00 pm

I just looked to see what my old buddies at howmuch had to say on the topic, that might be useful for someone.

They have an extended post that focuses on all aspects of car ownership, so look at the link if interested.

Their thoughts on leasing…

M45BC

Pros and Cons of Leasing.

Pros:

You will have a very small, or sometimes zero, down payment.

Your monthly payments will likely be much lower.

You will be able to choose from higher-end vehicles.

You will be responsible for less in sales tax.

Cons:

Your mileage will be limited.

Once your lease is up, you no longer own the vehicle.

If you need to terminate your lease, you will be responsible for costly cancellation fees.

Leasing over the long-term is more expensive than purchasing a vehicle.

https://howmuch.net/costs/auto-loan-guide

#35 Phylis on 02.23.20 at 4:01 pm

As yes, missed a point, … before the march deadline. Thx sail.

#36 Piano_Man87 on 02.23.20 at 4:08 pm

“Yeah, yeah, I know you might shave off some dollars by using cash, but that’s an illusory saving. And by leasing you will make it far, far, far, far easier for her to pick out a new model in 2023.”

There are risks to leasing. Mileage caps. If you get a minor ding – say a door ding by another party – you get penalized. Can’t do maintenance yourself – the dealer does it. If you are willing to do some maintenance yourself and want a car for the long term, buying is king. Just don’t buy a luxury car. Get a reliable car that doesn’t depreciate fast, like a honda accord/civic, or a toyota corolla/camry.

I understand that as a blog writer it’s impossible to change your mind without taking a shellacking. Must suck.

You cannot self-maintain a car without voiding the warranty. Mileage is negotiated when you lease. Rent payments are simple to write off, but car payments not so much. Must suck to misunderstand such things. – Garth

#37 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.23.20 at 4:14 pm

@#17 Millenial Denialist
“This is starting to look like Bernie is on the home stretch.”

+++++

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahha

Thanks for the laugh Milly.

#38 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.23.20 at 4:19 pm

@#25 Apocalypse2020
“It’s all coming together.
Time is running out.”
++++

Dont you worry about us Poxy.
We deserve the coming plague, pestilence, …….Armageddon.

You just make sure you have a spare blow up doll and enough patch kits to last you until long after the canned food runs out.

#39 WIN not lose on 02.23.20 at 4:21 pm

There is a third option if you have a proprietorship or are incorporated.
Buy the car (finance perhaps- new or used) and then you as owner, lease it to your company.
If finance payments are say $300, you as the owner can lease it to your company for $400-$600 (check out fair market leases for similar cars).
The expense goes to the company.
The differential goes into your pocket tax-free.
Hat-tip to a Revenue Canada auditor.

Will never survive an audit. – Garth

#40 chris on 02.23.20 at 4:28 pm

What about financing the vehicle as an option for those who like keep their vehicles a long time and perform their own maintenance (mine are currently 13 and 20 years old).

This option also leaves the $40-80K available for investments. You still get warranty from the dealership for issues within the first 3-5 years (depending on the manufacturer). You do the maintenance after that (yes requires you to have some mechanical knowledge)

There is more hassle to sell later vs trade in. But if you are driving it into the ground, it will not be worth much anyway. Sell or scrap for $500-1000.

Leasing a $60K vehicle @2.5% on a 3 year cycle with $30K trade in value has the monthly about $900. Over 20 years ~= $215K.

Financing a $60K vehicle @3.5% on a 6 year term has the monthly at about $900 as well. Add $1500 a year after 5 years for maintenance. Over 20 years = $90K

#41 Lost...but not leased on 02.23.20 at 4:41 pm

Re : leasing vehicles….

How timely…as yesterday we traded in our 2018 lease (Nissan Rogue)and leased a brand new 2020(Nissan Rogue)

Up till 2018…we always bought “used” for various reasons….mainly affordability and depreciation that worked for us.

Given we are Boomers….. while we own RE(SFH paid off)…went to auto show in 2018 and crunched numbers with a dealer. Leasing just makes more sense…give or take…we paid approx. $10,000 over 2 years to “rent” at around $400/month …the buy out was $20,000..versus buying and making monthly payments +all taxes.

I think this is where people get into mental gridlock..the psy-opp of “owning” …need for control…versus assessing cost VS benefit. Unless you pay cash(WHY???)…simply weigh lease versus buying…leasing almost always = BETTER.

Irony is we found better deal from a dealer about an hours drive away…..BTW this is 2nd time we are dealing with them. The deal we negotiated is for 3 year lease, approx. $500/month ..all warranties…includes service packages…with opt out at 2 years/3 months. Our insurance is 10% lower based on a new braking system…etc. etc.

Leasing is THE way to go…

#42 Lost...but not leased on 02.23.20 at 4:52 pm

#37 Piano_Man87 on 02.23.20 at 4:08 pm
“Yeah, yeah, I know you might shave off some dollars by using cash, but that’s an illusory saving. And by leasing you will make it far, far, far, far easier for her to pick out a new model in 2023.”

There are risks to leasing. Mileage caps. If you get a minor ding – say a door ding by another party – you get penalized. Can’t do maintenance yourself – the dealer does it.

================================

Our 2018 Rogue ..2 year lease…went 2,000 km over the 40,000 limits. The hit would have been $200.

We had a minor ding and a scratch mark that could be buffed out.

The dealer ignored it all.

Shop around…IMHO dealers outside the more urban centers will cut better deals.

#43 BS on 02.23.20 at 4:54 pm

T on 02.23.20 at 2:58 pm
#23 BS on 02.23.20 at 2:35 pm

Leasing vs buying really depends on your use case.

It’s easier to write off lease payments on business taxes.

This is false. You depreciate a vehicle when you buy it which is a business tax write off and if you take out a loan you can also write off the interest. Over the life of a vehicle the write off for both leasing and buying is all the expenses of the vehicle. The tax write off is the same.

The comment was correct. It is far easier for accounting purposes to expense a lease. – Garth

#44 Lost...but not leased on 02.23.20 at 5:09 pm

#35 Flop… on 02.23.20 at 4:00 pm

Pros:

You will have a very small, or sometimes zero, down payment.

Your monthly payments will likely be much lower.

You will be able to choose from higher-end vehicles.

You will be responsible for less in sales tax.

COMMENT:
First time we leased…they wanted 3 months funds up front….Latest lease ??? no such thing..simply monthly.

====

Cons:

Your mileage will be limited.

Once your lease is up, you no longer own the vehicle.

If you need to terminate your lease, you will be responsible for costly cancellation fees.

Leasing over the long-term is more expensive than purchasing a vehicle.

COMMENT:

Depends….we gave up our 2018 vehicle about 6 weeks before the lease was up…no penalty.

Leasing long term? seems counter – intuitive…
The issue boils down to monthly payments to LEASE versus BUY re: short term use or ownership of a depreciating asset.

We moved from a 2 year lease to a 3 year..that’s our maximum lease based on warranty considerations and lower monthly payments.

Should also mention we are leasing THE most basic model(not that it doesn’t have bells and whistles over and above our last lease ie this time round we get roof racks..heated steering wheel…better braking system etc. etc.).

#45 COVFEFE-19 on 02.23.20 at 5:10 pm

“First, why tie up $70,000 in a vehicle that could be invested instead? That amount of money left in your portfolio could easily become $140,000 in a decade …”

It sure could… if you’re living in your parents’ basement and THEY’RE making your car lease payments.

#46 TalkingPie on 02.23.20 at 5:36 pm

“You cannot self-maintain a car without voiding the warranty.” – Garth

Unless you can point to a source that indicates otherwise, I’m going to call that patently untrue. Every reference I’ve ever seen says that an automaker can’t legally void a warranty unless they can prove that owner-performed maintenance – even modification – was the cause for the failure. Even then, only the warranty on the affected part is voided.

As long as you’re using the appropriate parts and fluids, and adhering to factory-approved procedures, there’s no basis for worrying about having your warranty voided.

#47 Sail away on 02.23.20 at 5:38 pm

When I design a bridge, 95% of the stakeholder discussions will revolve around the handrails, because the average person thinks they understand handrails.

Similarly with finances: 95% of the discussion revolves around vehicles, cell phone plans, cable TV and blah, because people think they can grasp the concept.

Generally when people around me get vigorous and animated about cars, cell, TV and other unimportant crap, I’ll walk away and find a wall to bang my head against. Eventually, if I’m lucky, I’ll stop being invited to coctail parties.

#48 cowtown cowboy on 02.23.20 at 5:44 pm

I’ve been leasing for years now, as one of those IT guys that Garth talks about I can expense the mileage for work which usually comes close to covering the monthly payment. Had a few Audi’s but the last one proved hard to get rid of. Love my Toyota’s, super reliable, (not that it would cost me anything if something went wrong, and stellar retained value.
I buy them out after the lease and sell them myself, usually make enough to negate about 6months of the lease. Residuals on some of them are crazy low and the value is high, expecting to make at least 5K when I dump my truck in a year or so.

#49 Jimcel on 02.23.20 at 6:03 pm

If you don’t own a lakefront condo, the latest Porsche, work in a Bay Street job, and you are not at least 6 foot tall, no woman wants you in Toronto.

The reason condo and house prices are skyrocketing in Toronto is because of the demands of dating. The competition is fierce. Toronto is a cruel city if you are not the top 1%.

#50 Dominoes Lining Up on 02.23.20 at 6:04 pm

Not sure if this is to be dismissed as mostly anecdotal, but I have been noticing what seems to be a shift in the parts of Toronto I visit to shop weekly, and it seems pretty significant.

First, some may have read this piece about a serious drop in retail of late.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-retail-sales-in-canada-have-their-worst-year-in-a-decade/

But what has struck me the last two weeks seems to be even more significant than just a headline.

As an inveterate cheapskate, I am always visiting thrift stores in the city to pick up dirt cheap stuff here and there that I can actually use. Kind of like buying a nice functional used car, per today’s topic.

There’s loads of these places in Toronto and surroundings, and usually it’s very pleasant to get in and out quickly as long as you have no problem with some of the slightly scruffier folks who are in there most days. Never crowded, and easy to scope out the deals.

Well, since January, I’ve been checking out the usual bigger malls I am near as work and family takes me around town, and they have been almost silent with nil traffic, but lots of signage advertising 60-80% off of all kinds of stuff, even winter wear still in season. Very quiet for retail.

But the last three weekends, when I go to secondhand stores, they have been unbelievably packed! I’m talking about lineups of ten or more people at checkout, and crowds of people in every aisle. Like it was Black Friday or something!

Even more, I keep seeing my neighbours there now – mostly European -background folks, people living in hoods where houses go for $1 -1.5 million, hunting around these last chance stores for cheap stuff. I have literally not seen a person from my actual street in any of these places before this year, but there were three today and about the same the last two weeks.

Anyone else noticing a shift there?

#51 BK on 02.23.20 at 6:13 pm

Lease vs buy a new Lexus… for the rest of us. No shame in buying a used older vehicle. Just like there is no shame in renting. If you really wanted to be smart with your money.

#52 G on 02.23.20 at 6:30 pm

http://carsmart.ca/ if you’re buying new. At least ask what there price would be if you know what it is you want. And see if the local dealers can match it.

But it sounds like buying new isn’t always the best way to go for the many reasons Garth covers in todays blog.

#53 Yukon Elvis on 02.23.20 at 6:53 pm

Protesters have gathered on train tracks in East Vancouver near Clark Drive and Venables Street to show solidarity with the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs who oppose the GasLink pipeline in northern B.C on their traditional lands.

The protesters are describing themselves as urban Indigenous sovereigntists, according to CTV News Vancouver.

Demonstrators believe “civil disobedience is necessary to push back against the enforcement of unjust laws.” They are demanding “an end to the use of injunctions to repress Indigenous peoples.”

#54 leebow on 02.23.20 at 7:00 pm

Why nobody talks about stealing cars? I’ve heard it’s the cheapest option. I’m not gonna get caught – I already studied The Thomas Crown Affair, Ocean’s 11, and Gone in 60 Seconds (the last one is most relevant).

Does it make more sense to steal new or 1-2 year old? What if I can change my own oil?

#55 Figmund Sreud on 02.23.20 at 7:00 pm

#37 Dr. Garth’s comment:

“You cannot self-maintain a car without voiding the warranty.”
______________________________

Well, … not quite accurate. driving.ca opinion:

Doing DIY repairs? Here’s how to keep your warranty intact

Getting your car maintained elsewhere won’t automatically void your warranty — if you take the proper precautions

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/how-to-keep-your-warranty-while-doing-it-yourself

Anyway, I have been servicing/maintaining all my cars since c.1968, … and I have never faced any problems with any warranty claims by any of the following manufacturers: Datsun/Nissan, Honda, GM, Ford, BMW, VW, Toyota.

… and for the record: I’m not a car mechanic, but just a person enjoying taking care of my own car.

Best,

F.S. – Calgary, Alberta.

#56 Jay Currie on 02.23.20 at 7:03 pm

I happen to like older cars. But that is likely because I have a son who loves working on pre-2000 BMW’s. Our total “fleet” investment for two cars is $9,800 cash paid in full three years ago. We are two years away from “Collector’s” plates for my wife’s 540 and, at that point, insurance will go from $1300 to $300.

Spending a lot of money on a car is silly. It is smarter than spending a lot of money on a boat but barely.

#57 akashic record on 02.23.20 at 7:04 pm

#1 Beaters Rock on 02.23.20 at 1:07 pm
Just buy a used beater and drive it into the ground…way cheaper. But if you need a Mercedes or Lexus to feel manly you should probably lease it.

One should lease a Mercedes or Lexus, because I rather enjoy my money than give it to the government.

#58 Joe Calgary now Nanaimo on 02.23.20 at 7:09 pm

Bad advice on the Lexus. Buy pre owned, 2 yr old car with warranty and certification. Same warranty as a new car so no need to worry about breakdowns, and it will be at 30% off of a new one price wise. Will depreciate at a slower pace than a new one and you will still be able to sell for a good amount 4 yrs down the road when warranty expires.

#59 Treasure Island CEO - 192,343,435.88 Offshore on 02.23.20 at 7:09 pm

Why not pay cash for 2015 Toyota Corolla S with 40k-50k km?

$15,000 outlay with $9,500 in maintenance costs (including all weather tires purchases) over 15 years. The amount of time that car will reliably last.

If you are looking for an SUV bang for buck that isn’t going to suck the gas and still be a sweet ride I would recommend the 2017 Mitsubishi RVR GT for $19,000 and definitely go for the Sport Limited Edition 18-inch alloy wheels.

But the lower you can get that capital outlay cost on the vehicle down, the more you can save. Car pooling and sharing a car to reduce the amount of vehicles per family required is also another great idea. Canada is far from ever having train transportation or any kind of reliable, convenient public transportation system. So, at least one vehicle per family is probably a minimum for the foreseeable future.

Only buy new (which will get you the lowest financing rates) if you cannot manage to ever save $15k, which if the case, begs to question why you are not focusing on obtaining a bus pass (or hitchhiking) instead of buying a car.

New car smells (which are toxic VOCs) and high sticker prices are not good for the health. 2 year old minimum.

#60 Where did the Hong Kong protest news coverage go? on 02.23.20 at 7:18 pm

Replaced by corona virus.

Interesting timing, since the protests were literally crippling Hong Kong.

Have not heard anything about the protests since the virus outbreak.

I guess that is one way to end them.

Look! A distraction!

Or a detour in a completely new direction with ability to lay blame on the virus as to why the financial markets melt down.

Watch the run on hard assets this year. 5-year mortgages dropping once again – just in time for Spring.

Stock market out of steam – however, be prepared to buy if we get a big correction.

Multiple bids slamming every listing in Vancouver right now.

#61 Sat is a lexus with air flow seats on 02.23.20 at 7:25 pm

Toyota makes Lexus. Underwhelming.

The most extreme new car smell in the interior ever experienced. Life shortening of 9.8 years breathing that daily.

White body on black rims with red leather interior seats and the big front grill.

Air flows through the seats when turned on and you can just breathe that foam laced air in (isocyantes, benzene and all) – only on the new stuff. It eventually out gasses and becomes more inert over the years.

The outside looked great though.

#62 not 1st on 02.23.20 at 7:31 pm

The S&P has almost 10% annualized return. Many funds that track it have a 2% dividend, some have a 4.5% dividend.

You wouldn’t borrow at 3% for a 12% return? That’s a huge missed opportunity.

#63 G on 02.23.20 at 7:38 pm

Hi #25 Apocalypse2020,

You seem to be fallowing this, so… Today on YouTube
Dr. John Campbell has a 23min update. He mentions the word “Proactive”. I hope the right people are listening?
and Lisa Haven has a 9min. @2:40 she has a story from the South China morning post (!) .

And that ‘fake news’ site (AJ), has some stories about USA upgrading there nukes, plans to selling some to Britain, and recent Pentagon war games ending with tossing a nuke into Russia.

I guess ‘Doctor Strange Love’ is alive and well.
I wonder if Elvis has found good place to hide yet.
I don’t think there is such a place. Fingers crossed.

#64 april on 02.23.20 at 7:42 pm

#61 – show proof? condo insurance crisis is going to cause the condo market to collapse. Only naive people buy condos now.

#65 Pablo on 02.23.20 at 7:45 pm

if you want a car you can’t really afford, want a new one every four years or are using it for business then go ahead and lease otherwise finance it.

#66 MF on 02.23.20 at 7:50 pm

I drive a 15 year old Honda that I bought used, and outright. I will drive it until it dies, hopefully many km’s and years away from now.

Driving a nice car is 99% of the time a way of overcompensating for some insecurity. You have billionaires and millionaires driving simple cars, and poor people driving nice cars. They stopped being an accurate symbol of wealth a long time ago.

MF

#67 akashic record on 02.23.20 at 7:52 pm

COVID-19 is ready to hit economy.

#68 MF on 02.23.20 at 7:55 pm

#55 leebow on 02.23.20 at 7:00 pm

Yes. Definitely a better option.

Look into studying Grand Theft Auto, the video game. Lots of great tips and tricks in there also.

Plus, if you end up getting caught, the resulting car chase and eventual food chase will provide for great cardio. No need for a gym membership either. Big savings around 50$/month.

MF

#69 TurnerNation on 02.23.20 at 7:58 pm

Bad advice on the car front.
(Still LMAO over yesterdays’ blog.)

No that intrepid Blog dog should aim higher. And drive what the Pattisons, Thompson, Westons (presumably) and other deca millionaires drive in this country.
(A station-in-life-wagon).

Here is a PERFECTLY good car for driving the neighbours mad with your frugality.

414,000 km on the odo (a tad low I know), and the owner ” just changed the breaks” .
New breaks!! But consider peeling off the “CE” badge from this luxo-mobile’s rear. No need to wipe their faces in prestige and ostentatiousness

2009 Toyota Corolla 4dr Sdn Auto CE
414,000 km | Mississauga
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/toyota/corolla/mississauga/ontario/19_11352379_?

#70 JSS on 02.23.20 at 8:03 pm

#50 Jimcel

“ …and you are not at least 6 foot tall, no woman wants you in Toronto.”

Ok if today’s blog is about cars, can we devote a future blog about height.

#71 MF on 02.23.20 at 8:05 pm

#51 Dominoes Lining Up on 02.23.20 at 6:04 pm

I go value village to buy books. It’s always been busy for as long as I can remember. Usually you find old textbooks, but once in a while you find something really good. Average price is $6.00 or so.

Retail is struggling because of Amazon, and other online services now available. I started ordering food and groceries online most days now. Amazing. You don’t even have to leave home and the groceries/food comes to you. People have been buying clothes online for a while now too.

Not a harbinger of anything bad. More like a sign of the times.

MF

#72 Shawn on 02.23.20 at 8:12 pm

Look at the Canadian yield curve. Are negative rates coming to Canada?

#73 Nonplused on 02.23.20 at 8:22 pm

Robert,

Buying a leaseback that is 2 years old and then driving it until the wheels fall off is the cheapest way to own a vehicle. Sure, you get the odd repair bill, but unless the engine or transmission goes it is cheaper than lease payments. When the transmission does go you ditch the car.

The rewards in life go to the risk takers. If you want to guarantee that you won’t ever face a repair bill, you have to pay the folks who will a premium.

“She likes the idea of having a new model every three to four years.” and “Lexus”.

Oops. The most important financial decision you can make is who you marry. Getting a new car every 3-4 years means you will always own it in the period when the depreciation is the highest, and yes they put that into the lease so you still pay it. No matter what car you drive, owned or leased, you always pay the depreciation. Even if you finance a car the payment is based more on depreciation than any other factor, such that if they have to send a repo man with a tow truck to recover it they don’t lose too much money.

And a Lexus is just a Toyota with another badge on it. They are good cars, but you can save a mint by going to a Toyota dealership instead. They are the same damn cars. I don’t think you did a very good job of reading Doug’s post yesterday.

Folks, until the engine or the transmission goes, repairs on an old car are always cheaper than depreciation on a new car. Assuming you have an honest mechanic. Don’t take an old car to the dealer or they will practically try and rebuild it to pressure you into buying a new one. Dealer mechanics are for warranty only.

I married well (the second time around, but to be fair I had a better idea what I was doing). My wife is happy to drive her 2006 Explorer. It is in good shape, only has 200,000 km on it, and is leather and heated seats and other features we don’t ever use like a DVD player. Yes, we get stung with the odd $2000 repair bill. But even if that happened every single year we are talking about $166 a month. You cannot buy a new 4×4 truck that can pull 10,000 lbs for that. You simply cannot. Plus the insurance is less. And as with renting, my kids don’t seem put off by the older vehicle. They don’t seem to care a bit. Do the kids seem to know how many years old the leather seats are? No they don’t. Do they even know they are leather? I don’t know if they even know how old the car is even though they have been riding around in it since birth. They really don’t care anymore than the dog does. But I care. When we bought that vehicle in 2008 we paid $30,000 with 40,000 km on it, and new ones were $60,000 with similar trimmings. Yes, the leaser paid $30,000 dollars worth of depreciation (probably more) to drive a vehicle 40,000 km. That’s $0.75 per km! Just for depreciation! If there was every an argument for walking or taking the bus there it is.

Garth is right about many things, but he is wrong about leasing cars. You only do that if you need the cost on the expense side of the ledger instead of the liabilities side. So you must be a business that can deduct it.

Leasing cars is for dummies, unless there is a business reason to do so. You will pay the depreciation and it will be baked into the lease. The smart people drive older Toyotas.

I thought you only bought tractors that run on beets. – Garth

#74 leebow on 02.23.20 at 8:45 pm

#69 MF

Ah, Grand Theft Auto. I’ll check the local library. Cardio is a big bonus. Now I do dine and dash for my HIIT.

#75 tbone on 02.23.20 at 8:46 pm

I have always bought cars . Some new , some one year old . Keep them for a few years , then trade them in on a different car , and pay the tax on the delta between the two cars .
Residual value is still quite high so I spend about the same as buying a camry but get a higher end car.
I will run out of time before I run out of money , so ya,
I had a GS 350 and traded it for an A6 .
Supercharged engine is quite entertaining.

#76 DON on 02.23.20 at 8:48 pm

#72 MF on 02.23.20 at 8:05 pm

#51 Dominoes Lining Up on 02.23.20 at 6:04 pm

I go value village to buy books. It’s always been busy for as long as I can remember. Usually you find old textbooks, but once in a while you find something really good. Average price is $6.00 or so.

Retail is struggling because of Amazon, and other online services now available. I started ordering food and groceries online most days now. Amazing. You don’t even have to leave home and the groceries/food comes to you. People have been buying clothes online for a while now too.

Not a harbinger of anything bad. More like a sign of the times.

MF
**************

It can mean job loss to. A whole different can of worms.

#77 CalgaryCarGuy on 02.23.20 at 8:55 pm

I have spent the last 44 years working in car dealerships mostly in the service department as a service advisor. Ford, Chrysler and Nissan. There are several things mentioned here today that are patently false. Post #23 is excellent and all true.
First of all, whether you bought the vehicle or leased the vehicle you are in the exact same position of being responsible for maintenance or repairs not covered by warranty unless you have something in your lease or purchase contract that says otherwise.
Secondly, you cannot just return a leased vehicle to the dealer if something goes wrong with it or you decide you don’t like it. Well, you can I guess but you will be charged up the ying-yang for breaking the contract.
Thirdly, you can most certainly do your own maintenance or have it done somewhere other than the dealer as long as you follow the maintenance guide and keep accurate records with receipts. Having said that, different dealers will tell you different things on this topic. Unscrupulous dealers or personnel may tell you you can’t or give you the perception you can’t. There could be a brand that I haven’t worked for that says you can’t. Maybe Honda as I know they can be sticky about it. Always remember that there are good dealers and bad dealers no matter what brand of vehicle.
Whether you lease or buy should be mainly determined by how you will use the vehicle, how many kilometers you drive, and if you can write off some costs. For example, I needed a car to make a daily 50 kilometer commute into Calgary from outside the city…so 100 kms a day, all highway. I purchased a brand new 2014 Nissan Sentra in the fall of 2014. A middle line car with a six speed manual transmission. I did not put one nickle down on the car. I financed it through Nissan at 0 per cent (a Nissan promotion at the time) over 84 months. I also have an excellent credit rating which allowed me to qualify for doing this. I think my payment is 223 a month. The car averages about 6 liters/100 kms on fuel…my best has been 4.8 on a trip from Montana. That is 57 mpg! I laugh about the car payment since it was free money really to get a car that saves me so much on fuel. Yes, I got employee discount on the car but that isn’t a heck of a lot on a lower end car with few options. I expect to be able to clock that car up to probably 400,000 kms or more without having too many problems.
Lastly, those who say buying a beater for cheap is the cheapest way to own a car are absolutely correct in my experience. I have had about 40 cars in my life including a number of beaters. The best deal was a 1989 Ford Tempo I bought for 1100.00 and then drove it for over 100,000 kms with only normal maintenance performed. It finally developed an expensive to fix problem so I drove it to the auto wrecker. Next!
One more thing. I was just layed off from the Nissan dealer I worked for here in Calgary. I started there originally in 1993. I was always the number one service advisor there even up until my last month. Great customer satisfaction ratings too. My point is that is how bad things are in Calgary these days. That dealer is one of the highest rated dealers in Canada…often number one over the years…and I heard they had trouble meeting payroll at the end of December. I guess I ended up being a cost instead of an asset. Alberta is really suffering these days but especially Calgary.
Now I’m going to have to be extra careful in what I post in the future because there will definitely be Calgary people reading this blog who will know exactly who I am.

#78 Nonplused on 02.23.20 at 9:01 pm

“I thought you only bought tractors that run on beets. – Garth”

Umm, wait, that is the most nonsensical response I think you have ever made. Well even the sun has spots. Nobody is perfect.

For the record my tractor is orange but it runs on gas. My neighbors have the diesel units.

But what really confuses me about this response from you Garth, is how little it has to do with what I was commenting on. You are one of the smartest people I don’t know personally. Yes you are which is why I follow you. But that response doesn’t make a lot of sense. No tractors run on beets and even an idiot like me knows that. I can’t even imagine what you were trying to say or accuse me of. Beets? Tractors that run on beets? What the hell?

#79 not 1st on 02.23.20 at 9:11 pm

Teck Frontier mine cancelled tonight. Blockades still up. Coastal Gas stopped, TMX next up for protest. Canada is cooked. Garth needs to do a back of the envelop calculation on how much Trudeau has cost the economy. I will give you a hint, it starts with a capital T. Canada will never recover from this one.

#80 Not Drinking on 02.23.20 at 9:31 pm

#64 G
#25 Apocalypse2020

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8035099/Two-doctors-die-coronavirus-24-hours-Chinas-Hubei-province.html

#81 yvr_lurker on 02.23.20 at 9:38 pm

I have never bought a new car. Always have chosen one that is about 2–3 years old with no more than 50K miles. Then, will do careful regular maintenance and keep it until it dies. We have a four year old Honda CRV for road trips bought 2 years ago, and a 19 year old Honda accord in still good shape with only 145K miles.

#82 NoName on 02.23.20 at 9:44 pm

We do put quite a bit mile on our cars so leasing and buying and extra milage brings a monthlys almost in line with payment.

Considering the fact that we can not write anything off longest loan duration @ 0% financing is best possible alternative. Only problem having an accident shortly after car is paid for.

As for engines wifi’s escape with 2l ecobust is best zippiesst car we ever owned so far. Someone mentioned.supercharged engines,. Now days tourbos are delivering full power (torque) as low as 1500 rpm in escape case is 2000rpm, electric cars are definitely better when it comes to 0rpm torque, but that comes with range exiety disorder…

#83 yorkville renter on 02.23.20 at 9:46 pm

How timely! I’m looking at Lease vs Buy now but with a slight twist.

I can lease a fantastic and large German dealer-demo for under $800/mo (for 36 months) or I can buy the same fantastic and large German car and finance for about $800/mo (for 48 months), but it will be a 2017 with low Kms.

The total lease cost and the 2017 cost are virtually identical – about 5% difference between the two.

So, the argument is this — buy the 2017 (which will be 8 years old when paid off, but owned) which will be out of warranty very soon, or Lease the demo car which will be in warranty the entire time.

If it matters, this will be acquired through my company.

Decisions, decisions…

#84 Cowtown Cowboy on 02.23.20 at 9:47 pm

This country makes me sick

#85 tbone on 02.23.20 at 9:48 pm

Ah , the lexus GS 350 is an all wheel drive car that is not at all the same as any Toyota model that I know of .
The camry and es 350 are similar but the lexus is more refined . You pay extra for the badge for sure but its a nicer car. Buy what you can afford I always say .
Both are good vehicles .

#86 Reynolds531 on 02.23.20 at 9:48 pm

Keep the 2014 infinity. Vastly under rated, as long as it doesn’t have the Mercedes engine.

#87 akashic record on 02.23.20 at 10:16 pm

#85 yorkville renter

If money earned is on T4 buy and hold, if not, lease and rinse.

#88 Vanreal on 02.23.20 at 10:19 pm

How does a 26 yr old making around 60000 save up 250,000. Even if he saved half his before tax income he’d only have saved 150000 in 5 years. I call bullshit.

#89 JSS on 02.23.20 at 10:20 pm

If one cannot decide between buy or lease, then get a bus pass.

#90 G on 02.23.20 at 10:48 pm

Hi #82 Not Drinking, if interested.
This YouTube guy, bill moose repost AJ shows.
The first part of Sunday was Mike Adams on the C19.
None of this is looks good, IMO.
02/23/20 AJ massive coverup of CV.(first part of show)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCslsWYyQV6pyIEmVapqJiDg

#91 Spock on 02.23.20 at 11:10 pm

#27 Blackdog on 02.23.20 at 3:14 pm

If the over-contribution happened between Jan 1 and Feb end 2020 – you should be okay in most cases as long as you had income in 2019 and your contribution was not totally consumed by pension adjustment.

You have new contribution room for 2020 tax year which starts on Jan 1, 2020 (18% of 2019 earned income up to max of $27,230

———————-

#27 Blackdog on 02.23.20 at 3:14 pm

Sorry, slightly off topic question that I hope someone can answer, but relevant as is end of RSP contribution season.

Regarding deferring of RSP deductions to later tax years, if one accidentally over-contributes by more than $2,000 prior to March 1 2020 (with respect to 2019 tax year), can one remedy the over-contribution by simply deferring part of the RSP deduction (the amount over 2000) until 2020 tax year or later?

#92 VicPaul on 02.23.20 at 11:16 pm

#65 april on 02.23.20 at 7:42 pm
#61 – show proof? condo insurance crisis is going to cause the condo market to collapse. Only naive people buy condos now.

*********

Sharing potential high-value liability with anyone and their Uncle has always been a very bad idea.
No dirt, no deal.

*********

Regarding used cars – I have owned Honda Accord’s ($6k – good), a Toyota Cressida ($1500 – good), a Lexus RX300 (seven years old – lasted eight years of comfortable, inexpensive driving – $15000) and now drive an old Infiniti G35 (purchased from rich Uncle – 14 years old/90,000km for $8000) – 6sp manual – awesome fun to drive.
Buy used quality for cash (but NOT BMW/Mercedes – killer maintenance costs) – and don’t worry about the parking lot.

M56BC

#93 Al on 02.23.20 at 11:37 pm

Dear Garth, I’m looking for the most effective way of flushing 70K down the drain. Should I place each $100 bill in the toilet and flush after each one, or should I put like ten in there and then flush. I’ll save water/money doing the later but I run the chance of having to call in a plumber if it gets clogged, thus ending up costing me more. My wife, Princess Poppy really likes her $100 bills printed no more than 3 or for 4 years ago. I’m torn on what to do, our wealthier friends are flushing 8 Benjamins at a time but the american bills are of different shape and material. Id like to be a good steward of our money.

– Branch

#94 WUL on 02.23.20 at 11:43 pm

#81 not 1st on 02.23.20 at 9:11 pm
Teck Frontier mine cancelled tonight. Blockades still up. Coastal Gas stopped, TMX next up for protest. Canada is cooked. Garth needs to do a back of the envelop calculation on how much Trudeau has cost the economy. I will give you a hint, it starts with a capital T. Canada will never recover from this one.

economics..NEB…economics…NEB…

The shelving of this economic loser mine has nothing to do with PM Trudeau. I was waiting for this comment tonight. The neo-cons will try to hang it on him anyway.

I’ve read over 30,000 pages of the regulatory filings on the Frontier Oil Sands Mine and have been saying for 3 years it would never be built. Never made economic sense. How can $20 billion dollars be raised from investors?

A couple of years ago, Canada’s National Energy Board said the Fort Hills Oil Sands Mine (Suncor, Teck and the French Total Pete) would be the last mine built. Look it up. The NEB was right.

Not hard to figure out.

WUL

M64110 kms south of the Frontier Mine in The Mac

#95 fishman on 02.23.20 at 11:43 pm

Frontier is kaput. Vancouver Harbour plugged with freighters. Fully loaded container ships at anchor a first. No westerners running for CPC leader. Lil potato waving white piece of paper,”reconciliation in our time”. Crank up the heat. Screw down those tempered bolts holding the lid on. Get that pressure up. Keep your head down. Hope my fellow bloggie doggies don’t get scalded when she blows.

#96 G on 02.23.20 at 11:54 pm

Hi #82 Not Drinking, if interested.
Global News Feb23. (they mention the 28 day issue.)
Coronavirus outbreak: Clusters of COVID-19 suggest new phase for spread of illness 3min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORUpqmJYScc

#97 Piet on 02.24.20 at 12:03 am

$70,000 for a lousy car? Sheesh, I’d rather leave the money for the next generation to figure out what to do with it. The neighbours all have fancy cars but I just smile at them when I drive by in our 16-year-old Honda Civic which still serves us well on long road trips that include such challenges as 10,000 ft and higher mountain passes in Colorado. As for satisfying the materialistic urge to buy something new, I’ve been researching e-bikes and will probably blow $1,500 on one that will make cycling in our hilly neighbourhood a breeze.

#98 joblo on 02.24.20 at 12:04 am

Teck cancels Frontier mine, Justin and Gerry must be so proud of themselves.

#99 Long-Time Lurker on 02.24.20 at 12:22 am

#131 LP on 02.23.20 at 10:30 am
#78 Long-Time Lurker on 02.22.20 at 7:59 pm

If Canada is so lackadaisical as you say why have we not had an outbreak like some other countries?

>Time and distance. Look up what the U.S., Jordan, and Israel just did. Also, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan.

>Keep an eye on Maple Ridge, BC. The carrier might have infected others already.

>South Korea went from one infected carrier transmitting to 500 in about 5 days. Actually, it’s up to 736 infected as of 9pm PST.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

#100 Piano_Man87 on 02.24.20 at 12:34 am

#38 Piano_Man87 on 02.23.20 at 4:08 pm
“Yeah, yeah, I know you might shave off some dollars by using cash, but that’s an illusory saving. And by leasing you will make it far, far, far, far easier for her to pick out a new model in 2023.”

There are risks to leasing. Mileage caps. If you get a minor ding – say a door ding by another party – you get penalized. Can’t do maintenance yourself – the dealer does it. If you are willing to do some maintenance yourself and want a car for the long term, buying is king. Just don’t buy a luxury car. Get a reliable car that doesn’t depreciate fast, like a honda accord/civic, or a toyota corolla/camry.

I understand that as a blog writer it’s impossible to change your mind without taking a shellacking. Must suck.

You cannot self-maintain a car without voiding the warranty. Mileage is negotiated when you lease. Rent payments are simple to write off, but car payments not so much. Must suck to misunderstand such things. – Garth

You can do some maintenance on your car yourself without voiding the warranty. Powertrain warranty’s are about 5 years. In that time frame, you will need to get a lot of oil changes done – some dealers will let you do it yourself if you buy – and you won’t void the warranty.

Mileage caps are fantastic if your life never changes.

#101 Jimers on 02.24.20 at 3:51 am

Got a ’04 Impala LTZ with 300,000km with 2nd set of (snow) tires thrown in, 4 years ago for $1800. Runs like a clock, only issue so far was a leaking power steering hose got fixed for $200. Nice looking car, fully featured, fast with a gloss paint that still looks new. Put 20,000 km on the odm, insurance is under $1000 a year.

#102 Howard on 02.24.20 at 4:48 am

Gold is telling us all something. Are you listening?

Get in on the miners. We’re still on the ground floor.

#103 under the radar on 02.24.20 at 6:19 am

85 – You can lease a new 2020 today or for the same money you finance a 3 year old 2017.

What will the 17 be worth in another 4 years?
What is the interest rate they are using ?
How many kms on the 17?
Have there been any refreshes on the model between 17 and 20? – Makes a difference later down the road if you buy now.
Unless you can prove use is 100% business you will be charged for personal use and will need to keep a mileage log if Corp pays for it.

#104 NoName on 02.24.20 at 7:14 am

#90 Vanreal on 02.23.20 at 10:19 pm
How does a 26 yr old making around 60000 save up 250,000. Even if he saved half his before tax income he’d only have saved 150000 in 5 years. I call bullshit.

Maybe he made killing on pot stock.

#105 economy2.0 on 02.24.20 at 7:23 am

The current economic structure is on the verge of a massive collapse and will be replaced with a new system that will redistribute wealth and resources to all citizens of this planet. Wealth is fleeting!

#106 Phylis on 02.24.20 at 7:38 am

How about an easier gauge for the lease vs buy conundrum? If you pay someone to change your wiper blades, then you should be leasing.

#107 COVFEFE-19 on 02.24.20 at 7:55 am

“Get in on the miners. We’re still on the ground floor.”

At a mine, the ground floor is the top.

#108 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.24.20 at 8:01 am

@#80 Nonplused
“Tractors that run on beets? What the hell?”
++++

Ethanol derived from sugar beets…yeesh.

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/2014/04/22/ethanol-from-energy-beets-a-viable-option/

The US govt used to spend billions subsidizing corn based ethanol. Many farmers were saying beets were a my more environmentally friendly option.

Then “fracking” ramped up and ethanol ramped down.
Fracking….”Lets pump hydraulic fluid deep, deep, DEEP under ground and wait to see how it affects our drinking water………….”
The next decades( and century’s) environmental mega disaster.

Personally I would avoid “beet juice” and go with methane.
Haul a trailer full of cows behind the tractor. Run hoses from their farts to the fuel tank…
Voila! A perpetual motion machine!
You win the next Nobel Prize.
I’m surprised a genius like you hasnt done it already.

#109 not 1st on 02.24.20 at 8:14 am

#96 WUL on 02.23.20 at 11:43 pm
—-

The mine construction is 7 years out. Do you know what the oil price will be then? Maybe someone at Teck knows.

These projects have to be started 10 yrs in advance because we cant get anything built in this stupid country except overpriced homes.

This stinks of a liberal backroom deal. Pull the application, spare Trudeau the hard choices, take the write down and we will funnel some of your application cash back to you so its not a total loss. Just another iteration of the TMX fiasco.

#110 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.24.20 at 8:19 am

@#52 Dominos…

“Anyone else noticing a shift there?”
++++

I was in an industrial park on the weekend to buy some product. Hadnt been to this supplier in about 2 months.
“For Lease” signs EVERYWHERE.
Every building is Leasing vacant space.
From 3500 sq ft up to including entire warehouses $200,000 sq ft..

The idiots running govt dont seem to realize that when they make taxes too punative and regulations too onerous….business’s take their money and go elsewhere.

Teck being the latest multi billion dollar example….I wonder who will pay for all the protesters dreams and demands when there is no money.
I know! We’ll just run a bigger defict !
That’ll fix everything!
It’s so easy being a Little Potato.

I havent seen that in years

#111 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.24.20 at 8:36 am

It’s not a pandemic.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-who/who-says-it-no-longer-uses-pandemic-category-but-virus-still-emergency-idUSKCN20I0N8

Gotta luv the bureaucrats.
It took them 3 weeks of dithering to announce the Coronavirus was called COVID19….. instead of something simpler like CV19 ( not to be confused with your 19th Curriculum Vitae …also known as a Resume’).

You gotta luv pretentious, Orwellian double speak bullshit during an evolving emergency….
The govt middle management mindset…..”Lets have a meeting to discuss why we’re having too many meetings”….
Bureaucrats….when the incompetent rise to the top and take charge.

I wonder what they will eventually relabel a “pandemic”? Or will they all be dead before they reach a decision?

#112 milly on 02.24.20 at 8:57 am

Hi Garth!

Thank you for another informative post.

I have always been sceptical of leasing because they limit your kms and I like to take long road trips. Even with penalties from over kms is it better to lease?

#113 Dog Breath on 02.24.20 at 9:24 am

If you want to get a new car every three years then leasing is the best way to go for sure. However if you want the best value for your money then buying a good quality car (Toyota or Honda) new and keeping for a least ten years is the best option. Depreciation in the early years is irrelevant if it’s kept for ten. If possible pay cash!!

#114 David Hawke on 02.24.20 at 9:26 am

Sanders = Trump’s dream. – Garth
Spot on!

However, leasing a $70,000 Lexus may be the way to go, for the normal dude buying a Kia coming off lease is a way better option IMO!

#115 Dog Breath on 02.24.20 at 9:41 am

#106 No Name
“…How does a 26 yr old making around 60000 save up 250,000… ”
——————————————————-
He probably inherited $500,000 and has only blown through half of it!!

#116 Blackdog on 02.24.20 at 10:27 am

@Phyllis #35 re: ” If you don’t correct it you can be subjected to a penalty. I wouldn’t wait or take that chance. I had to 1) write a letter explaining the error on my part. 2) get a response letter from the cra to authorize the financial institution to withdrawal the overcontributed amount. 3) give that letter to the financial institution to execute it. Hoops yes, but maybe someone can add to this event to confirm.”

Thanks for your response Phyllis. Uggh…sounds like fun. I’m hoping that Spock’s suggestion works….need to investigate further. Btw, wasn’t me who over-contributed, but rather my daughter in her first “big girl” job working for Health Canada. She saved lots of money living in mom’s basement and thought she was smart investing in RRSPs but didn’t understand how contribution room works. Lesson learned for her, and tax filing headach for mom who does her taxes.

#117 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 10:30 am

“I’m a 26 year old on the moister fringe (I think??) who rents a two bedroom apartment in Saskatoon for $1100 which includes heat, water and internet. Power is ~$45/month. I split this with my S/O so housing costs are ~15% of my annual income. I’m blessed with a well paying job working for the prairie salt cartels and have managed to hit a NW of $250,000 with a full TFSA, RRSP and a company pension to boot. Am I a unicorn?”
___

Nice, another dude with an employed S/O living in the sticks, keeping costs low, and working a good job. I’d bet Graeme doesn’t have a fancy (expensive) education either. Likely straight to work soon after high school making decent cash, no debt, and saving huge.

Keep the savings going G and even Doctors and Lawyers will have trouble catching up to you, even into their 50’s – maybe never.

#118 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 10:37 am

#111 not 1st on 02.24.20 at 8:14 am
#96 WUL on 02.23.20 at 11:43 pm
—-

The mine construction is 7 years out. Do you know what the oil price will be then? Maybe someone at Teck knows.

These projects have to be started 10 yrs in advance because we cant get anything built in this stupid country except overpriced homes.

This stinks of a liberal backroom deal. Pull the application, spare Trudeau the hard choices, take the write down and we will funnel some of your application cash back to you so its not a total loss. Just another iteration of the TMX fiasco.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Institutional investors are moving away from carbon, and the US is self-sufficient for oil. There’s no reason to believe that these facts are going to change in in the near future. Jason Kenney can bluster all day, but this one is not on Trudeau.

https://www.blackrock.com/americas-offshore/insights/tips-for-investing-in-low-carbon-transition

#119 Bold new plague on 02.24.20 at 10:43 am

BANNED

#120 the Jaguar on 02.24.20 at 10:51 am

@#97 fishman on 02.23.20 at 11:43 pm
Frontier is kaput. Vancouver Harbour plugged with freighters. Fully loaded container ships at anchor a first. No westerners running for CPC leader. Lil potato waving white piece of paper,”reconciliation in our time”. Crank up the heat. Screw down those tempered bolts holding the lid on. Get that pressure up. Keep your head down. Hope my fellow bloggie doggies don’t get scalded when she blows.

Yep. Teck Resources pulled the plug given uncertainty fueled by the rail protests, etc. This is huge. Ordinary Canadians won’t even have a clue because they don’t understand what it means for the security of their energy future. One would think the propane shortages of November and February would be a wake up call, but sometimes, more often than not, people need to learn things the hard way. It’s going to be one hell of a lesson.

#121 MF on 02.24.20 at 10:59 am

113 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.24.20

This whole thing has been sad to watch.

From the totally ill informed “it’s just a flu” crowd, to the conspiracy theorist nut cases who naively believe humans are smarter than Mother Nature.

It’s sad.

I feel like everyone is underestimating this threat.

One thing is for sure, social media is being highlighted for the faulty source of information it is.

MF

#122 James on 02.24.20 at 11:07 am

#66 april on 02.23.20 at 7:42 pm

#61 – show proof? condo insurance crisis is going to cause the condo market to collapse. Only naive people buy condos now.
____________________________________________
Condos are so pfttt, as others have pointed out here. If the insurance premiums and $100K deductibles don’t clean you out then the fees certainly will. I do not quite comprehend the Gen Boomers and affinity with condos. They move out of a perfectly decent home with literally low cost of maintenance only to have uncontrolled fees and high insurance premiums right smack in the middle of the insurance jam that is gutting the condo realm. My father’s friend and his wife sold their home and moved uptown off of Younge. Now they realize that their home carrying costs have tripled. They are now considering moving to a very small town into a townhome to mitigate their diminishing investments that even at the present rate will severely limit their retirement lifestyle. The insurance industry is already dumping some of these massive losses on regular SFH owners. My rates are up 10% and so are my neighbours, my father’s buddy realized a 40% increase with a massive deducible jump. The inscriptions are on the wall so step with great trepidation moisters.

#123 Shawn Allen on 02.24.20 at 11:08 am

Teck resources Frontier oil sands withdrawn

I think WUL at 96 is right, it was uneconomic. And he has, you know, actual knowledge.

No project of $20 billion has ever been built in Canada. At least one of the LNG projects in BC is bigger than that counting the Coastal Gas pipeline part. But it’s not yet built. From the first day I heard of $30 billion LNG plants around 2013 I thought it was a typo (must be $3 billion?) and wrote that they would never be built at $30 billion and certainly not ever more than one. It looks like one might be. Maybe.

Frontier at $20 billion was always very questionable at best on economics.

Nevertheless, the fact that it seems clear that Trudeau is willing to let protesters stop, it seems, any and all large resource projects is very chilling.

They now know they can stop not only pipelines and new oil sands but even oil by rail.

I start to see the appeal of a Trump-style leader who is certainly not afraid to get things done and arrest those in the way.

#124 G on 02.24.20 at 11:12 am

Hi #113 crowdedelevatorfartz, re: your bureaucrats,pandemic/& Dr. Feb 24 update, Iran info.

Heard the Ontario health press briefing this morning.
Seems they are only contacting persons siting 2m around the seat of positive C19 traveller. IMO, They should contacting the whole plane, so people aren’t walking about spreading it by accident!
Clearly no one on the plane used the bathrooms at the back/front of the plane. And the air in a plane doesn’t recirculate!
They also seem uninformed about the longer than 14 day people and the ‘Cured’ people in China being quarantined again due to some having new positive tests for some reason. (designed for such maybe??)
But if you don’t look at the whole plane, nothing to see here I guess. (Don’t worry be happy, we have it under control. I hope so, we will see.)
I can here it now, similar to PM T and the train blockades, it’s not my fault, WHO didn’t tell us we needed to look at all people on the plane or even tell them all.
(I hope they are actually looking at all the planes persons, and just not saying so?! either way it’s concerning!)

Todays report form English Dr. on YouTube of the C19. Some of the comment from others below his video are interesting too. He even make a comment about WHO near the beginning. If interested. My fingers and toes are crossed.

Monday morning news Feb 24 18min
Dr. John Campbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C-NpadSNuA

#125 Sail away on 02.24.20 at 11:20 am

#120 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 10:37 am

Institutional investors are moving away from carbon…

—————————-

Really??

I guess Warren Buffett missed that hot tip, since he took big positions in Occidental Petroleum and Suncor in the last year.

#126 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 11:21 am

#112 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.24.20 at 8:19 am
@#52 Dominos…

“Anyone else noticing a shift there?”
++++

I was in an industrial park on the weekend to buy some product. Hadnt been to this supplier in about 2 months.
“For Lease” signs EVERYWHERE.
Every building is Leasing vacant space.
From 3500 sq ft up to including entire warehouses $200,000 sq ft..
___

Same here, for sale/rent lease all over in town. There isn’t a single new manufacturing plant still going that started up post 1990. A few really old plants that shut down in the 70/80’s empty and rotting. More again that have been flattened. Several have sold and are now warehouses/storage buildings. Almost zero manufacturing going on now – it was this along with pulp and paper that built the town.

My fav is a parking lot for sale in town. It was a gas station, but structure removed (tanks still in the ground though). An old 5 bay car wash remains, but is looking very rough. Buddy has been been trying to flog this blighted lot for years at 800K. It’s basically worth nothing – those old underground fuel tanks would have to be dealt with, and this lot has empty old crap buildings on three sides.

IMHO, services for the retired (and others with money like those employed in the public sector) will be the future for most small towns where the middle class private sector has been completely routed.

#127 not 1st on 02.24.20 at 11:22 am

#120 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 10:37 am

Well they can move to wherever they want, that doesn’t change the fact that renewables in any scale will ever replace FF and since nuclear is ignored, neither will it.

You can see the proof right here. Most of the world is ill suited to wind or solar and any places that can handled it are too far from major population centers. Your green unicorn fairy tale has an unhappy ending and soon the world will find out.

Why is Soros investing in coal and O&G?

Time for the ignorant to get educated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpbtNnVdhF

#128 Ubul on 02.24.20 at 11:26 am

Sanders = Trump’s dream. – Garth

Seems to me like the dream of millions of Democrat voters, they will be declared deplorable soon.

#129 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 11:36 am

#80 Nonplused on 02.23.20 at 9:01 pm
“I thought you only bought tractors that run on beets. – Garth”

Umm, wait, that is the most nonsensical response I think you have ever made. Well even the sun has spots. Nobody is perfect.

For the record my tractor is orange but it runs on gas. My neighbors have the diesel units.

But what really confuses me about this response from you Garth, is how little it has to do with what I was commenting on. You are one of the smartest people I don’t know personally. Yes you are which is why I follow you. But that response doesn’t make a lot of sense. No tractors run on beets and even an idiot like me knows that. I can’t even imagine what you were trying to say or accuse me of. Beets? Tractors that run on beets? What the hell?

____

I’ve mentioned vehicles that run on wood (wood gasification) – maybe Mr. T was getting us mixed up as the resident “Tractor” guy.

#130 Ubul on 02.24.20 at 11:38 am

#113 crowdedelevatorfartz on 02.24.20 at 8:36 am
It’s not a pandemic.

I wonder what they will eventually relabel a “pandemic”? Or will they all be dead before they reach a decision?

They relabel when it is obvious for everyone. They can’t prevent pandemic, they try to doctor (financial) panic, instead. Losing credibility is just a side-effect, but everyone popping pill is well conditioned to live /or die/ with that.

#131 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 11:40 am

#122 the Jaguar on 02.24.20 at 10:51 am

…but sometimes, more often than not, people need to learn things the hard way. It’s going to be one hell of a lesson.
___

If Canadians ever learn anything – the hard way is exactly how it’s going to get done.

#132 COVFEFE-19 on 02.24.20 at 11:49 am

“Yep. Teck Resources pulled the plug given uncertainty fueled by the rail protests, etc. This is huge. Ordinary Canadians won’t even have a clue because they don’t understand what it means for the security of their energy future.”

If Canadians understood what it meant for the security of their energy future, they’d protesting the gas pipe from the AECO Hub to Asia far more than they already are. If you enjoy heating your home with $2 gas, you’ll LOVE doing it with $8 gas! But lots of people will helpfully explain how it’s the carbon tax that’s killing hard working middle class families.

Variant view on Teck Frontier: You’re the CEO and your project is a triple loser (oil prices, ESG, financing) unless the US bans fracking — and you’re not yet feeling the Bern. What better time to ice the project than when everyone will blame protesters and Ottawa instead of your poor math skills?

#133 Farmer Fred on 02.24.20 at 12:10 pm

#80 Nonplused on 02.23.20 at 9:01 pm
“I thought you only bought tractors that run on beets. – Garth”

“Umm, wait, that is the most nonsensical response I think you have ever made. No tractors run on beets and even an idiot like me knows that. I can’t even imagine what you were trying to say or accuse me of. Beets? Tractors that run on beets? What the hell?”

Captain Garth is correct. I drive a 250 horsepower tractor that runs entirely on beets. It pulls a 12 furrow plough like no Deer tractor ever did. I buy my beets by the ton and compared to diesel fuel, it is a helluva lot cheaper. Beet tractors rock!!

#134 Blackdog on 02.24.20 at 12:11 pm

I wonder what happened to my comment directed to Spock #93?

Maybe you forgot to hit the Send key. – Garth

#135 conan on 02.24.20 at 12:17 pm

RE:28 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 11:21 am

“It was a gas station, but structure removed (tanks still in the ground though)”

I have heard that the stupidest thing anyone to do is buy gas station land or the land that is next door to gas station land.
If you own any of this land you have very little time left to sell it. The contamination radius is much bigger than people thought.

#136 Gina Santabel on 02.24.20 at 12:19 pm

IHCTD9, it looks like you are describing someone like me. I am late 20’s and have worked full-time since I was 17 years old.

I have managed to stash away $512,000 in just over 11 years. I have maxed out all my RRSP’s, TFSA’s and have the remainder in non-registered money, $310,000.

My entire investments are split between, long term GIC’s 35%, short term GIC’s, cashable GIC’s 5%, REIT’s 20%, long term strips 40% which is only in my registered accounts, RRSP’s, TFSA’s as it is easier for tax purposes.

I work 6 days a week and live very frugal, basic life and my spending money, got to get out of the house fund I call it of a modest $250 to $300 a month. My starting gross pay was $38,000 a year working full-time as a waitress, night crew back in 2009 and now I am making after just 11 years $65,000 a year as a full-time manager.

I say not owing a car and renting pretty cheap with friends I know from work which are like family now, shopping around for deals and just not spending money on stuff just because people have it.

Also, maxing out my RRSP’s each year, taking the tax refund every year and reinvesting it in TFSA’s maxing that out each year and saving, investing the rest.

I would say I am very fortunate with my employer and work friends and good thing my employer is very flexible and their business is growing steadily over the 11 years.

#137 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 12:41 pm

#129 not 1st on 02.24.20 at 11:22 am
#120 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 10:37 am

Well they can move to wherever they want, that doesn’t change the fact that renewables in any scale will ever replace FF and since nuclear is ignored, neither will it.

You can see the proof right here. Most of the world is ill suited to wind or solar and any places that can handled it are too far from major population centers. Your green unicorn fairy tale has an unhappy ending and soon the world will find out.

Why is Soros investing in coal and O&G?

Time for the ignorant to get educated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpbtNnVdhF

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Is your portfolio full of O and G? If not, you’re part of the “problem”. Oh, I won’t risk MY money because O and G isn’t viable without government subsidy, you say?

Soros and YouTube in the same post = conspiracy gibberish

I would expect wealthy investors to put their money where the returns dictate, no different than you and I.

#138 James on 02.24.20 at 12:44 pm

#134 COVFEFE-19 on 02.24.20 at 11:49 am

“Yep. Teck Resources pulled the plug given uncertainty fueled by the rail protests, etc. This is huge. Ordinary Canadians won’t even have a clue because they don’t understand what it means for the security of their energy future.”

If Canadians understood what it meant for the security of their energy future, they’d protesting the gas pipe from the AECO Hub to Asia far more than they already are. If you enjoy heating your home with $2 gas, you’ll LOVE doing it with $8 gas! But lots of people will helpfully explain how it’s the carbon tax that’s killing hard working middle class families.

Variant view on Teck Frontier: You’re the CEO and your project is a triple loser (oil prices, ESG, financing) unless the US bans fracking — and you’re not yet feeling the Bern. What better time to ice the project than when everyone will blame protesters and Ottawa instead of your poor math skills?
__________________________________________
I have held a small portfolio of TECK.B since 2016 and it hurts with this last round. This may be the nail in coffin for my days with Tech Resources. Frontier was the only reason I held this. Thanks T2 for your leadership on fence sitting and prostrating yourself to every miserable excuse for a protest.

#139 NoName on 02.24.20 at 12:53 pm

@ that 26 yro dude

What is mistery to me is how much dude makes a yea. I was playing with numbers and if he was saving around
350-ish per week in last 8 yrs, and investing only in mistery etf is doable.

#140 Dogman01 on 02.24.20 at 12:55 pm

“Yep. Teck Resources pulled the plug given uncertainty fueled by the rail protests, etc. This is huge. Ordinary Canadians won’t even have a clue because they don’t understand what it means for the security of their energy future.”

The Public is disconnected from just about everything. Farming, mineral extraction, transportation, logging, fishing, infrastructure- all the industries that keep the nation going are mostly un acknowledged by the people who depend on them most.

They seem to have lost track that the basics need to fulfilled before anything aspirational can be achieved.

#141 YVR Expat on 02.24.20 at 1:01 pm

#51 Jimcel on 02.23.20 at 6:03 pm
If you don’t own a lakefront condo, the latest Porsche, work in a Bay Street job, and you are not at least 6 foot tall, no woman wants you in Toronto.

The reason condo and house prices are skyrocketing in Toronto is because of the demands of dating. The competition is fierce. Toronto is a cruel city if you are not the top 1%.

*****************************

The big emergency is that there aren’t enough top 1% men to go around, many are taking as many women as they can. However, the birth rate of the country is still negative and falling. This is the beginning of the end of Canada, and it’s growing economy. You can’t grow a country without babies. And Canadian women seem to hate babies these days! Kiss the economy good-bye!

#142 Marco on 02.24.20 at 1:03 pm

“I’d bet Graeme doesn’t have a fancy (expensive) education either.”
Well, canucks your anti educational stand sucks and stinks

#143 just snootin' on 02.24.20 at 1:36 pm

Just a little vent…

A simple, little project had me sourcing CAD product. I started in October, with the intent of “buying Canadian”. It is now March. I have had to order from offshore to meet deadline—twice since. One CAD vendor screwed up the order, another “forgot”, two more had excuses why they couldn’t meet delivery. All these suppliers clearly advertised they were ready, willing, and able to meet our requirements. I hate having to dog suppliers to get them to do what they promised.

The offshore vendors met the orders in 9 days to specs.

Sectors of the economy are hooped, if you extrapolate from this exercise in futility. Fyi, this was in consumer goods. One supplier is in the same town and couldn’t get their act together. I have no idea how they pay their bills.

Thanks for this box to scream in.

#144 the Jaguar on 02.24.20 at 1:54 pm

@120- Sold Out…”Institutional investors are moving away from carbon, and the US is self-sufficient for oil. There’s no reason to believe that these facts are going to change in in the near future. Jason Kenney can bluster all day, but this one is not on Trudeau.”

Actually according to the Wall Street Journal and others investors are moving away from tight oil (fracking) because they aren’t getting returns and recent studies are showing the oil reserves were exaggerated. Those same fracking companies are flaring off significant amounts of gas into the atmosphere as well. Significant enough to be seen on night satellite photos of the planet. Where are the ‘greenies’ on that issue? Maybe that’s why Greta didn’t drop in for a visit and flew to Canada instead. That dirty little secret wasn’t yet ready for ‘prime time’. All this flotsam jetsam carbon capture/global energy shift is just a new industry that has been created for people to buy into, and I mean ” buy in” in a monetary, money out of your pocket sense. Renewable energy is a great idea and worthy of everyone’s support, but it is not yet ready to replace world fossil fuel requirements. Technology is not energy. Our world is going to get a lot smaller in coming years. Enjoy the Kiwi fruit, etc. while you still can. This issue is way bigger than someone like Trudeau, though it doesn’t excuse his lack of leadership on so many issues.

#145 Barb on 02.24.20 at 1:54 pm

Well done, Gina Santabel #138!

The way you’re living your life is freedom.

#146 G on 02.24.20 at 2:00 pm

#132 Ubul,

I didn’t watch the WHO news thing today, but have seen this in a few places, if true, nothing to worry about then it seems(?).
Meanwhile the WHO says: “It’s not a pandemic because we don’t use that word anymore”

If interested:

Experts Warn Coronavirus Could KILL 80 MILLION, Globalization Is COLLAPSING Due To The Pandemic
Timcast Feb 24 20min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xoglqBF3p8

MedCram today FEB24 10min.
Coronavirus Epidemic Update 24: Infections in Italy, Transmissibility, COVID-19 Symptoms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFoj2L2LpNA

#147 Got Bonds? on 02.24.20 at 2:03 pm

Got your bonds in your portfolio for market days like today?

#LongBunds

#148 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 2:09 pm

#141 NoName on 02.24.20 at 12:53 pm
@ that 26 yro dude
What is mistery to me is how much dude makes a yea. I was playing with numbers and if he was saving around
350-ish per week in last 8 yrs, and investing only in mistery etf is doable.
____

Dude probably makes 85-95K+, his S/O brings home some (maybe lots of) bacon also. Guy spends 15% of household income for the bills. Guy has no kids, mortgage, school debt, and has a dual income household. If he went straight from Gr.12 to work, and invested with a sense of purpose since day one, he could do it.

Seems totally doable to me.

Probably did less at first and saves way more today. Dude is likely including his pension in his NW also.

It’s doable when there’s no big mortgage or osap loan in the picture, and you start uber young.

If he plays his cards right, he’ll be a millionaire about the time most Doctors are finally off and running and making the big bucks.

All G has to do now is stay out of divorce court

#149 Remembrancer on 02.24.20 at 2:22 pm

#145 just snootin’ on 02.24.20 at 1:36 pm

The main difference between software sales and used cars sales (or for this blog, RE fluffers) is that the used car guy knows when he’s lying to you…

#150 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 2:23 pm

#143 YVR Expat on 02.24.20 at 1:01 pm
#51 Jimcel on 02.23.20 at 6:03 pm
If you don’t own a lakefront condo, the latest Porsche, work in a Bay Street job, and you are not at least 6 foot tall, no woman wants you in Toronto.

The reason condo and house prices are skyrocketing in Toronto is because of the demands of dating. The competition is fierce. Toronto is a cruel city if you are not the top 1%.

*****************************

The big emergency is that there aren’t enough top 1% men to go around, many are taking as many women as they can. However, the birth rate of the country is still negative and falling. This is the beginning of the end of Canada, and it’s growing economy. You can’t grow a country without babies. And Canadian women seem to hate babies these days! Kiss the economy good-bye!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yeah, right. It’s all the fault of gold-diggers who won’t put out for the average guy. If you’re consistently rejected by women, it maybe a sign you need to work on yourself beyond net worth. If those barren, picky, big-city bimbos won’t go out with you, move to a small town; small-town women will fight tooth and nail for first new guy who blows into Upper Gumboot, Saskatchewan.

#151 Kato on 02.24.20 at 2:25 pm

#144 Marco on 02.24.20 at 1:03 pm
“I’d bet Graeme doesn’t have a fancy (expensive) education either.”
Well, canucks your anti educational stand sucks and stinks
——————————————-

My wife has a professional job that requires a specific sciences degree. As a teenager she researched the program, got the schooling, and worked part time to keep debt at bay. Led to a career she loves. Good university.

Conversely, I know people who spent 4, 5, or more years spending hard for a degree with no job (or none that they achieved), and they regret being behind the 8-ball for a Sociology or Archaeology diploma. Bad university.

#152 Sail away on 02.24.20 at 2:33 pm

#151 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 2:23 pm

If those barren, picky, big-city bimbos won’t go out with you, move to a small town; small-town women will fight tooth and nail for first new guy who blows into Upper Gumboot, Saskatchewan.

——————————–

Emphasis on tooth. Singular.

#153 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 2:40 pm

#143 YVR Expat on 02.24.20 at 1:01 pm
#51 Jimcel on 02.23.20 at 6:03 pm
If you don’t own a lakefront condo, the latest Porsche, work in a Bay Street job, and you are not at least 6 foot tall, no woman wants you in Toronto.

The reason condo and house prices are skyrocketing in Toronto is because of the demands of dating. The competition is fierce. Toronto is a cruel city if you are not the top 1%.

*****************************

The big emergency is that there aren’t enough top 1% men to go around, many are taking as many women as they can. However, the birth rate of the country is still negative and falling. This is the beginning of the end of Canada, and it’s growing economy. You can’t grow a country without babies. And Canadian women seem to hate babies these days! Kiss the economy good-bye!
___

It is true Women will likely not fully commit to a Man she sees as ineligible, but the stats say they have no issue having kids with said Men. Obviously in Canada – even that much is not happening.

The real issue is not “Canadian Women”, it’s EDUCATED Women, and this is a worldwide trend no matter where you go. The most effective birth control a Woman can buy is education. Maybe we just have a crap-load of educated ladies in Canada?

Funny thing is – there are HOARDS of single Women in Toronto, and it is also one of the highest for female saturation in Canada. It make NO sense that a dude would have trouble getting a date there – should be one of the easiest places in the Country.

Kinda makes you wonder what is going on…

#154 Brett in Calgary on 02.24.20 at 2:51 pm

How are all the stock pickers out there today?

#155 MF on 02.24.20 at 2:55 pm

#151 Sold Out on 02.24.20 at 2:23 pm

Don’t even bother. Just a troll poking fun at the mgtow movement.

MF

#156 not 1st on 02.24.20 at 2:58 pm

Seems to me the Maritimes were promised a sustainable future if only they would let the govt torpedo the evil fishery which now the Chinese gladly do for us.

And now those provinces are hollowed out husks of their former selves stuck on equalization forever.

So forgive my utter disbelief when somebody says we are going to have green jobs. You know the only place in the country where solar has even a sniff of a chance of being economic is southern Sk and Ab. How are we going to get that green power to the woke geniuses in Toronto and gloomy Vancouver? Did you say transmission line? Good luck with that.

#157 not 1st on 02.24.20 at 3:12 pm

And we don’t want that dirty resource development, we are so woke and don’t need it.

Meanwhile 3.2M people, almost 10%, in a first world country live in poverty conditions. Choices have consequences and so do elections. Canada is so much poorer having put Trudeau and his cabal anywhere near the lever of power.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/statcan-says-3-2-million-living-in-poverty-including-566-000-children-1.4824546

#158 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 3:27 pm

#157 not 1st on 02.24.20 at 2:58 pm

Did you say transmission line? Good luck with that.
___

If anyone even thinks about putting a transmission line near my house, I’m blocking the tracks.

#159 YVR Expat on 02.24.20 at 3:54 pm

#154 IHCTD9 on 02.24.20 at 2:40 pm
#143 YVR Expat on 02.24.20 at 1:01 pm
#51 Jimcel on 02.23.20 at 6:03 pm

The most effective birth control a Woman can buy is education.

Kinda makes you wonder what is going on…

************************

The most honest thing said in the comments today.

Canada is lacking babies…big time. Women don’t want them, but babies are key to a nations survival. With the coming demographic decline in Canada we can expect the Japanification of Canada…that means a steady, slow decline into oblivion.

Why is this happening?

#160 Marco on 02.24.20 at 4:07 pm

“The most effective birth control a Woman can buy is education.

Kinda makes you wonder what is going on…”

Said Taliban

#161 Jane Goon on 02.24.20 at 9:47 pm

#156, rubbing my hands with glee. I love a good sale. The ETF market is getting killed as money floods to quality.

#162 Fabio on 02.25.20 at 8:57 am

Buy used.
I had a couple of leases in my life. Never again. First time I brought it back and the lease return guy went over it with a fine tooth comb. Pointed out little things wrong with it and dinged my nicely.
2nd time I paid extra for the ‘wear and tear’ included in the lease. Much better experience. Still no car at the end.
Last year I purchased a 2 year old Infiniti with only 6K on the odometer, full warranty in the $40K range with tax. It was almost $80K brand new.
I’ll be keeping it for 15 years like my last car. Works out to $250/month. Not too shabby.

A guy from my gym used to buy beaters from the car auction and wouldn’t spend more than $5K for them.
https://northtorontoauction.com
He’d drive them till they broke down and at times never did any maintenance for the time he owned that vehicle.