The canard

Are single-family homes a waste of space, a crime against Greta, arrogant, egocentric, bourgeoisie and a hateful, hedonistic social extravagance? Duh. Of course they are. At least governments are now thinking that way, and the consequences are piling up.

BC and Vancouver have declared war against detacheds, as you know. As a result, valuations have taken it on the chin (even condos are following now). Second homes are taxed extra, just like those the state thinks are under-utilized. Digs in expensive hoods get a property tax penalty, while in Toronto we’re just days away from a new uber-land-transfer-tax on top-end homes. The GTA may also soon have a vacancy tax, along with an 8% increase in municipal levies. (Van is going up 7% this year.)

The latest vitriol against single houses comes from Evan Siddall, the boss of CMHC who’s just unloaded on the nation’s realtors as he prepares to leave his post. “Our dream of home ownership is static and regressive,” he says. “We need to call out the glorification of home ownership for the regressive canard that it is.” And this: building more SFHs is ‘wrong’ and the real estate industry, “is drunk on its own excess.”

Wow. But 68% of Canadians own houses, and a recent poll of Millennials aged 28 to 32 found 72% of them are salivating to buy. In the US a similar study of the moisters found 63% of renters want to own and 83% of owners think they’re geniuses.

By the way, that survey also discovered the kids justify over-spending on real estate not for spouses and kids, but for dogs!

Here’s the issue, though:

(a) Houses cost too much. Prices have been inflated by cheap money, pro-housing policies, easy credit and rampant speculation.

(b) The result has been epic, historic levels of debt and the need for massive mortgages.

(c) Wage inflation hasn’t kept up with price inflation and new buyers are at risk as never before.

(d) The economy’s in the 11th year of an expansion and so we’re overdue for a reset, so

(e) any downturn would absolutely nuke first-time buyers with mucho debt and poco equity. Therefore,

(f) maybe dudes like Siddall are right. Building 2,000-foot suburban houses on forty-by-100 feet of former fields with $300,000 in materials so two people (and a dog) can live there and drive a minivan on a divided highway to work an hour away is insane.

But, that’s the dream. It’s everywhere, and being challenged. Look at the UK for example. Eerily similar to us here in Meghanlandia. In 1991 67% of young adults in Britain owned a house. Not it’s 38%, and falling. The average UK property costs eight times average income – same as Toronto, but way lower than YVR. Half of buyers there need the Bank of Mom. In London it’s two-thirds. A million more 18-to-24 year old Brits live with their parents than in 2002.

In the US experts say the real estate market would likely crash if it weren’t for obsessed young people taking on big debt. Inflated house prices in places like California have led to serious social upheaval, as the Moms4Housing episode has shown. Working people cannot afford to own, and yet owning remains the dream Siddall is talking about.

This sense of disenfranchisement is leading us to a new place – as governments are asked to ‘level the playing field.’ That could mean letting squatters take over Oakland houses that are sitting empty, having Toronto and Vancouver level a vacancy tax, jacking the property taxes owners have to pay with after-tax dollars, busting up protective neighbourhood zoning or taking $53,000 for nothing every time the average GTA detached house changes hands.

There’s a pattern developing here. Surely you can see it. If the bulk of your net worth is in residential real estate, challenge that. You’ll soon be the enemy. You might even consider what Phil did. Here’s his Sunday email to me.

I’ve been following you for a long time. We sold the house in 2010 in Kelowna and rented a two bed condo the minute the kids left the house. Our son called and said, “I guess this means I can’t ever come back”, which of course was the point.

We’ve kept all equity and as much as we can in the markets. We retired, at 55, last January and have been playing since then. Currently travelling for a year in a 22 foot camper van. The first three months was a test to a 32 year blissful (really) marriage as we had repeated issues with the camper and getting used to living in a phone booth. The last two months we are back on track. We left in September and I’m writing from a coffee shop in Southern Louisiana…Cajun Country (many oppressed Acadians settled here in the 1800’s). We are sampling the culinary delights of cracklin’, boudin, crawfish, and gumbo. Other than the camper, we are “homeless”. Having a blast.

Home is not a thing. It’s where you are. The dog doesn’t care.

 

118 comments ↓

#1 TurnerNation on 01.19.20 at 2:22 pm

Facinating I wrote my comment before this blog came out. A massive empty country filled with energy and resource riches..but our elites will not let us enjoy its fruits. Inner city work camps are the focus.
….

What’s trending in the post national state Kanada. (I’ve told you guys over and over watch into 2020-2021 they are speeding up this agenda and fast.)

1. Free drug vending machines in Vancouver. Privately owned for now. Normalization of drugs use. San Fran is the model city for this, coming soon to yours.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6426963/opioid-vending-machine-vancouver/

2. Normalization of homeless. It’s your problem BTW. Pay up. Homeless camps in New Brunswick, London, Peterborough? This is a first. Never before even in the worst times. Where they coming from?
To be homeless means you’ve also burned though all your chances in every area of life. Screw up at work? You get another chance or two to shape up. Burn a family member? There’s others you can turn to. Friends helping friends? Always, unless you cross them that badly. Like stealing their stuff for drugs.

https://www.toronto.com/news-story/9812049-east-toronto-mpp-wants-homelessness-declared-a-state-of-emergency/

3. War on SFH. Every mayor is on board in this regard . Densification. We MUST cram more and more people into cities, into tiny condo ghettos. Don’t ask why. They are finding endless people to fit into this. An unlimited supply. Developers and bankers win.
Owning a single family home is social ineruity, hoarding of wealth and only adds to the Homeless Crisis and Climate Crisis you know, think of the emissions and Dog Phartz which change the climate. Think I’m joking? They are not messing around .We are all to be in poverty.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/article-density-comes-to-the-danforth-finally/

#2 TurnerNation on 01.19.20 at 2:29 pm

Consider this: once we are forced into electric cars, and no charging stations existing in the rural areas we will be trapped in said cities. Dependent upon Government controlled electricity grid.
Water water everywhere, not a drop to drink. Forced rationing while our elites roar with laughter from their yachts and islands in international waters (where no laws apply). War-making yes. The show must go on.

#3 Oakville Owner on 01.19.20 at 2:34 pm

Thank goodness we are Gen-Xers! Got in in 2008 and will have the (25 Yr) mortgage retired in 2020 along with building the retirement accounts along the way. Going to enjoy the extra cash flow soon to start and would be happy to see interest rates pop. If T2 comes for the equity we will be sure to harvest the equity and rent the house next door that sits empty for most of the year from my neighbour who is now back in Egypt .

#4 Eco Capitalist on 01.19.20 at 2:38 pm

I sold the house and went all in on the rental thing last year. I’ve found two serious drawbacks to not owning a piece of dirt so far. First, I can’t have a smoker or a charcoal burner on the patio. Fire hazard, they claim. I miss cooking over wood. Second, no where to charge the car. I have to rely on public charging. Not so bad in better weather, but a major PITA during the winter.

#5 Tracey Berube on 01.19.20 at 2:42 pm

B-20 stress test messing with your industry? Need more 1st time buyers to drive property valuations higher? Want to keep those notoriously mobile workers hostage in your community? If you answered “yes” to any of these questions, a 40 year amort and 90% LTV mortgage may be the answer to your prayers.

BC Constrution Association, which keeps emphasizing that it’s a non-profit, isn’t waiting for the gutting of the stress test. Crisis, what liquidity crisis? We’ve got the money you need. It’s a dodgy loan AND a dodgy investment vehicle.

https://www.bccassn.com/resources/news/canada-s-first-impact-investment-mortgage-fund-set-to-serve-bc-s-essential-workers

#6 Just build smaller homes. on 01.19.20 at 2:43 pm

Just build smaller homes.

#7 yvr_lurker on 01.19.20 at 2:48 pm

Seems super-clear to me in our major citiesthat young enthusiastic and talented people are much worse off and have a reduced standard of living as compared with their cohorts from 20–30 years ago. Is this progress, or have people been hoodwinked by forces beyond their control (globalization of real estate, off-sourcing of jobs, rampant speculation etc….)… The way I see it, for this group it is analogous to a newcomer joining a Monopoly board in mid-game where even if you get 5000.00 every time you pass go (in comparison to the standard 100.00 for people who have been on the board for awhile), you are still in bad shape as even renting on Baltic avenue is uber-expense due to pre-existing hotel put on by someone who has been at the game a long time. You are simply hooped.

Many people want to keep their house so as to have a place for grown kids and their grandchildren to visit regularly to keep a sense of extended family and community. For me, selling the house, having no family home, and setting off in an RV through the US staying in trailer parks with all sorts of random people would not be (in any way) my sense of Nirvanna… to each their own….

#8 Samuel on 01.19.20 at 2:52 pm

So, going forward less detached houses and more multifamily being built. We are obviously going in that direction. Excessive taxes aside (as they will apply to multifamily dwellings as well), will the lower relative supply of detached houses coupled with the demand (dream) of detached home ownership not inflate the price of detached houses? And is the high price today reflective of the fact they have over time become a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall housing stock? With the price of detached properties following the income of say the top 20% as opposed to the top 40% when they used to be a larger percentage of available properties?

#9 Steven Rowlandson on 01.19.20 at 2:53 pm

Overspending on a home is only possible due to people being too dumb to offer less for the property and the sellers and sales people treating homes as investment vehicles that only go up in price largely due to the vendors and sales people demanding more and more for the property or the salesman inflating the price estimate for the vendor. It is the law of more. People want more profits and commissions so they jack up the price and the suckers trying to buy think they have no choice but to pay too much for too little.

#10 Frank on 01.19.20 at 3:04 pm

Garth where should I relocate to from the GTA? Should I get a job in the new city first or just figure it out when I get there?

#11 DON on 01.19.20 at 3:07 pm

I wonder how this post will be received by anyone lacking in reading comprehension and/or critical thinking.

#12 DON on 01.19.20 at 3:12 pm

Prediction:

Soon we will see realtor ads show casing possible doggie rooms and houses with automatic dog doors in order to entice people to buy.

Just recently saw the reverse mortgage commercial on tv. The older home owners turned on the sprinklers to avoid the waving realtors who keeps on asking them when they are selling. They laugh and wave at the realtor getting wet…then the reverse mortgage commentary follows.

Realtors are now in direct competition with reverse mortgages.

#13 Allison on 01.19.20 at 3:30 pm

Until the politicians focus their energies instead on making renting a better long term option (both for tenants and landlords), the demand for owning won’t subside. Having spent time renting on Montreal and Europe where it was a long term norm for families, YVR is pretty unappealing for renting. Either it’s short term and expensive for a nice place or else it’s really rundown for long term and still pretty spendy. What you see in the ads isn’t what is really out there (you wouldn’t believe the ads asking for families and you professionals with nice pictures but then when you visit It’s a dirty mess of a flophouse with bunks in the kitchen. ) it’s also common to be in a place that started decent but with a landlord who won’t perform basic repairs until eventually they aim to renovict…. its no surprisr people mortgage themselves crazy to be in control of their living space.

#14 CEW9 on 01.19.20 at 3:33 pm

Wait… Is home ownership static, or is it regressive? Can’t be both. Make up your mind, son.

This ship won’t change direction until the largest voting block since the Boomers gets fully into nesting home ownership. It’s coming, just not in the next few years. But once the Mil’s buy in, politicos will still be looking to buy votes.

#15 J. Canuck on 01.19.20 at 3:43 pm

Why is the CMHC guy bad-mouthing his own clients? That organization facilitates the very activity he is condemning? Has he kept his mouth shut all these years and collected a paycheque to do something he never believed in?

#16 Ran into an old neighbour ... on 01.19.20 at 3:49 pm

that lived across the street from me when I lived in a townhouse complex here in the LM. Was an upscale place. They are replacing the shake roofs on the whole development because they are at life’s end. The contingency reserve covered all but the roofs. Depending on the square footage of the places the price tag is between 60 and 70 grand. This on top of $600 to $700 per month maintenance fees that have steadily climbed over the years. And taxes. Living isn’t cheap anymore.

#17 Debtslavecreator on 01.19.20 at 4:03 pm

Governments always attack the asset they helped inflate
The reason all govts now attack the housing market is because they are broke and they will now set they’d sights on taking your inflated equity with very real taxes applied on the fictitious nominal gains
It’s only starting folks
Climate change used as the excuse , vacant tax, LTT and eventually a lifetime “limit “ on your tax free capital gain on a residence
It’s coming
All of it
They don’t care – there are no property rights in Canadstan
Corrupt politicians can borrow and spend whatever they want then steal whatever they want after
Budgets don’t balance themselves

#18 JSS on 01.19.20 at 4:24 pm

All real estate pricing is geographical.

If a millennial wants a good deal on a house, then come to Edmonton. Great deals abound. Especially since the current provincial government scared many in Edmonton from buying a house, instead causing many residents to save extra money in the bank in case of job loss.

You of course, will need a job and a parka.

#19 BlogDog123 on 01.19.20 at 4:33 pm

Read this week’s Economist magazine. A whole section on housing.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/01/16/home-ownership-is-the-wests-biggest-economic-policy-mistake

Listen up, to solve this, we gotta put the NIMBYism aside, loosen up on zoning and allow that 35 floor tower across the road from your single-family detached house close to the city. Don’t worry about it blocking your sunlight / view and people paying regulated rents flicking cigarette butts off the balcony. It is all for the common good !

#20 Meritocrat on 01.19.20 at 4:38 pm

Along similar lines, the Economist this week has a special report on “The Horrible Housing Blunder” which they characterize as the West’s biggest economic policy mistake since the second world war. Worth a read, they bring up many of the factors that Garth has harped on for years, although with a somewhat greater emphasis on supply-side factors (NIMBYism, zoning restrictions, etc.).

#21 Alessio on 01.19.20 at 5:04 pm

Wait – if people stop buying houses then who will own the houses and condos needed for people to rent? Also, if building smaller multi family dwellings is the solution who can afford those in GTA – almost a million!? A detached in Bolton is cheaper that’s why people want the burbs. Lastly, if everyone rents or buys these smaller dwellings in GTA the infrastructure will break. We haven’t kept up.

#22 Grunt on 01.19.20 at 5:05 pm

So we should carbon around in retirement. In dodgey depreciating RVs with mold and sanitary issues?

As for multiuse dwellings Siddall makes a roach advocate – pouches banned.

#23 MF on 01.19.20 at 5:10 pm

7 Debtslavecreator on 01.19.20 at 4

Canada is in better fiscal shape than almost all other “1st world” countries.

We are in debt, but everyone else is too.

The equity gains in the housing market are fake and a product of government policy (low interest rates, cmhc, capital gains exemption).

They’ve created a monster, and it’s now starting to harm both the economy, and create social strife.

The taxes on RE are 100% needed in my opinion. But are they part of some diabolical scheme like you mention? No.

MF

#24 Expatriate on 01.19.20 at 5:31 pm

Home ownership in the GTA?

Pftttt (spills coffee laughing)

DREAMING OF RENTING AN APARTMENT is a PIPE DREAM!

It’s $1,999/month for a 1-bedroom apartment at the most crime-ridden intersection in Toronto, and even there is the bidding war for the apartment.

The Landlord has asked for the following to rent the apartment which is located at an infamous street corner:

Salary of at least $75,000/annually
No PART-TIME or students allowed.
Equifax or Trans-Union score of at least 900+
Six months post-dated cheques
Signed contract of 12 months post-dated cheques for utilities.
A “security deposit” of $5,000.

TORONTO WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU!

$2,000/month + utilities to rent at J&F!

What the feline!

#25 IHCTD9 on 01.19.20 at 5:32 pm

#7 yvr_lurker on 01.19.20 at 2:48 pm
Seems super-clear to me in our major citiesthat young enthusiastic and talented people are much worse off and have a reduced standard of living as compared with their cohorts from 20–30 years ago.
———

That’s funny, because it’s uber clear to me that young enthusiastic and talented folks out here in small town Ontario got it way better than any generation that preceded them.

Good wages, dual incomes, cheap mortgages, easy credit, new trucks, boats, bikes, and off-road toys. Their standard of living is through the roof!

I really envy these rural young couples these days.

#26 Expatriate on 01.19.20 at 5:33 pm

Check rentals.ca and be amazed that renting in Toronto is competitive for slumlord apartments!

#27 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 01.19.20 at 5:33 pm

$53,000 for land transfer tax just to become another pathetic, deluded Toronturd or GTAHole?

RIDICULOUS!

Just. Stay. Away.

Toronto and the GTA is a sh*thole that is nowhere close to the quality of life you can have in Real Canada.

Look at how awfully the pathetic Make Believes treated their precious few living star veterans last night:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-need-frederik-andersen-rediscover-bye-week/

That’s right – Sittler and Salming show up, and the team collapses, getting shelled by Chicago 6-2 and now even its wild-card playoff hopes are in doubt.

Two REAL stars, who were disgracefully shoved out by incompetent Toronto management.

They return – and then the LOSER franchise dishonors them again with a pathetic no-show loss in the Scotiabank Morgue.

No respect. Only smirks for taking more money out of the pockets of Greater NHL Fools.

Now their power ranking has dropped even further, to #11.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/28491754/nhl-power-rankings-1-31-poll-plus-hidden-all-stars-every-team

Just like their crappy fake-world-class city, the Make Believes are circling the drain in the toilet.

Hit and runs, murders, crime of all kinds, and all sorts of managerial incompetence. Whining when a tiny snowfall happens.

THAT is what the GTA is really about.

Just. Stay. Away.

**Remember, tomorrow is Blue Monday, the most depressing day of the year.

Or, as Toronturds and GTAHoles call it:

Every Day :(

#28 AlMac on 01.19.20 at 5:34 pm

We bought our house because of kids. The dog came after.

Speaking of kids, I just read the post on Kids. Now looking forward to a post where Garth covers religion.

#29 Ken M. on 01.19.20 at 5:36 pm

#11 DON on 01.19.20 at 3:07 pm
I wonder how this post will be received by anyone lacking in reading comprehension and/or critical thinking.
================

Oh you mean the regular commentators on here.

#30 the Jaguar on 01.19.20 at 5:41 pm

As shocking as it might seem there still walk among us a few who selflessly and with good old fashioned integrity ‘step up’ to serve the public good like Evan Siddall. He’s wicked smart and could earn far more in the private sector and avoid the frustration, malice, and back stabbing of those who serve other masters and agendas. ( Nigel, your decency and sacrifice will also never be forgotten).
We don’t have a lot of authentic heroes kicking around in these times of greed, self preservation, and real estate cartel desperation. Siddall is one and while he may be stepping down later this year he is going out on his shield with his boots on. Thank you Evan for your service.

#31 Fluorine on 01.19.20 at 6:02 pm

>> #15 J. Canuck

You should probably read a bit about the guy you;re talking about:

https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/mortgages/cmhcs-evan-siddall-prepares-what-could-be-his-final-acts-as-the-most-important-person-in-canadian-housing

~Flu

#32 Ronaldo on 01.19.20 at 6:06 pm

#6 Just build smaller homes. on 01.19.20 at 2:43 pm
Just build smaller homes.
——————————————————————
Land too expensive. No profit in it.

#33 Treasure Island CEO - 98,485,934,88 Offshore on 01.19.20 at 6:21 pm

Nice try.

Everyone wants a single. And 2,000 sqft is small. Try 2600 sqft. Much more comfortable. If you have a bit of money you are jacking that to 3500sqft.

1400 sqft homes on nice spacious lots are great too, but you can’t find these. Municipal rules force bigger. On one hand they talk about densifying while on the other hand they have not changed the rules on SFDs. What it really means is young people can live in micro condos while older people can have their sprawling homes with huge lots.

And the dog needs the yard. First thing I did when I got meself a yard was get a dog. I was waiting 8 years to do so due to landlords telling me no dog for me, while they themselves had a dog. And it sucks living in a condo or townhome and sucks even more when renting and having to move every year and be turned down by landlords who hate pets, particularly dogs. Some of the best tenants out there have dogs.

And here is the trick – lots of gen xers figured this out and millennials are as well. You get the house in an urban area. Not because you need a ton a space, but because that space is more valuable than a small tight condo. Why? Because you can rent part of it out. You can put aging parents in it. You can put up relatives. They all have cash flow. And they all have no problem contibuting when it means a nice comfy home to live in.

Everyone I know in Vancouver does this. Kids are dentists, doctors, whatever, still living at home and paying the parents who are going to transfer this right down to them when they pass. That is how you make roots and get a stronghold in areas like Vancouver.

And the dog loves the yard. You have a driveway to put your car. You have a garage to work on your projects. You have yard to stretch out on.

And at some point the suckers who finance your house by renting part of it get kicked out, and you have a house fully paid for.

To me a house is about the cost of living. I don’t look at if the value is going to spike or drop. It is about cash flow and keeping my cost of housing down.

When your independent nice condo that you do not have to share costs 2k per month in rent (no room for belongings, no driveway, neighbor smokers, vapers, fire hazards, monthly fire alarms, your dog not making it outside to go to bathroom in time, strata rules, chemicals, salt sand all over property that burn the dogs feet) you have to start thinking about changing that. Anyone with an average income who wants to make it needs to have their housing costs around 1300-1400 per month. So, you still have to keep yourself in check.

But let’s face it, anyone who can afford it is in a house. It will always be like this and the more the supply on them dwindle with density the more prestigious and valuable they will become.

There will never be a shortage of renters but there will always be a shortage of affordable houses. At least as long as the printing presses continue printing money.

#34 AGuyInVancouver on 01.19.20 at 6:25 pm

#2 TurnerNation on 01.19.20 at 2:29 pm
Consider this: once we are forced into electric cars, and no charging stations existing in the rural areas we will be trapped in said cities. Dependent upon Government controlled electricity grid…………zzzzzzz
_ _ _
I certainly hope the government doesn’t cut off your supply of tinfoil hats. Then where would you be?

#35 just snootin' on 01.19.20 at 6:32 pm

Lure ’em in with cheap rates, get ’em in debt, lock the corral, tax ’em to death. e-i-e-i-oh.

#36 Kevin on 01.19.20 at 6:38 pm

More living space – 66%
Build equity – 36%
Better space/Yard for dog – 33%
Marriage – 25%
Birth of child – 19%

Total – 179%

Am I missing something or is this dog math!

#37 Randy on 01.19.20 at 6:43 pm

You are already penalized for owning a nice home. Our bullshit property tax system is based on the alleged market value of the property. Property taxes should be based on the services supplied by the municipality for each person in the house, not the market value of the property. Replace property taxes with a poll tax. Why are Education Taxes on the property tax roll ? More Bullshit.

#38 IHCTD9 on 01.19.20 at 6:46 pm

Big city problems, I’m damn glad I never went. Houses were bloody expensive in the gta when I was starting out too, but jobs were there. I took a chance on a job out in the sticks, and after a decade it turned into something good. Had to take that chance again in 2010, and thankfully got the same results.

I’ve never made the big bucks, and never will – but the household finances are doing pretty damn good nonetheless. If I had to start out shouldering an 8X income mortgage, life would have been totally and utterly different for us. Long term ramifications that terminate in a broke retirement.

From where I sit right now, things have never looked better: house paid for years ago, nest egg on track for 7 figures, zero debt, and soon to be relieved of the last of life’s big bills.

If I had ended up in the gta, I’d still be slogging away on the mortgage, likely have squat saved for retirement, and making a plan to work till 75.

Then, right after living like a pauper for 25 years just to cover the monthly, I end up with 6 luminescent dots floating on my chest courtesy of all three levels of our brokeass government who want to tax the crap out of me just because I own a house.

I was raised on city water in a jam packed subdivision where the houses were so close together, nothing grew in between them. My parents eventually figured out their prospects were poor, and packed us all up and moved to rural Southern Ontario. IMHO, it was the best decision they ever made.

#39 Linda on 01.19.20 at 6:59 pm

#33 ‘Treasure’ – small homes on big lots might be hard to come by, but small homes on normal city lots can be had. Thing is, most folks think bigger is better. Thus the proliferation of badly designed (much wasted space) homes on normal lots, many of which have so little lawn that one could trim it with a pair of scissors.

I don’t see the lure of the SFH going away any time soon. If we all wanted to live together we wouldn’t have left home in the first place!

#40 yorkville renter on 01.19.20 at 7:02 pm

Dogs dont care.. either do kids, and I have 2… people are so spoiled to think that owning a home is required when kids arrive.

#41 Network Admin on 01.19.20 at 7:11 pm

> In 1991 67% of young adults in Britain owned a house. Not it’s 38%, and falling.

It is 62.5% ? https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/home-ownership-rate ?

The link does not support that. – Garth

#42 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.19.20 at 7:13 pm

@#29 Ken
“Oh you mean the regular commentators on here.”
++++

:)

#43 Ronaldo on 01.19.20 at 7:18 pm

So here is what has happened in the past 50 years with real estate in North Vancouver.

https://www.marcoreichgeld.com/listings/view/181700/north-vancouver/lynnmour/935-old-lillooet-rd#

(The property sold in 2013 for $495,000)

In December 1969 I was 23 and finally out of debt and $500 bucks in the bank. Married 2 1/2 years.

These were some of the first Townhouse condos (Lynmour Village) that had been built in North Vancouver just below where Capilano College is today.

I purchased the unit for $20,800 in Dec. 69 with $3000 down (borrowed from Mom) and repaid shortly thereafter with a loan from same bank which I said was for furniture (no problem they said, and they gave me the loan). The government gave us a $1000 home owner grant which was the incentive to purchase. So now I needed a fridge and stove and this just happen to cost $500 so that cleaned out the bank account. I can tell you that it was a pretty skimpy Christmas that year but I had a decent paying job and the cost represented 2.5 times my annual salary so very affordable and my wife was also working but they did not take that into account back then. If they had it would have actually been 1.7 times our annual salaries. A far cry from what it is today. A nice rancher at that time cost around $30000.

So, today that same place is assessed at $677,000 down 10 percent from previous year of $753,400.

I would estimate that comparable salary today for the job I had then would be around $45,000 so that would work out to 16.7 times that one salary. Quite a difference from the 2.5 when I first bought.

At the time this is all we could afford (barely) but it turned out ok and a year and a half later we had our first child so luckily for us my salary was sufficient so that the loss of second income did not affect us that much.

The early 70’s saw a huge demand from the leading edge boomers such as myself for affordable housing.
Many in my age group did not want to take the plunge as I did and thought they could just save up for a down payment and then buy. Problem was, that we were in a period of high inflation and wage gains were coming fast and furious as the demand for employees in every field was so great. As a result, prices of housing was climbing faster than people could save so some ended up paying much more and so were no better off.

We kept it for 3 years and ended up selling for $27,500. A 32% gain. We then purchased a single family home in Port Coquitlam in Feb. of 73. This was just at the time that the oil crisis was playing out and prices of homes started rising very quickly to the point that houses were selling before the sign was in the ground.

We paid the full asking price of $26,000 (2.5 times my salary) for the little 2 bedder we bought in downtown Poco and now the proud owners of a single family detached home.

Prices continued to increase to the point that our little house was rising in price at the rate of $1000 per month or close to 4%. By the summer of 74 which is when the housing prices peaked our little house was worth around $51,000 (5 times my annal salary).

By September things went bad and like a switch had been turned off (interest rates now 12%) nothing was selling. As I had taken a job up north I put the house up for sale and the only way I could sell it was to carry a second mortgage but by then the price had dropped to $41,000. A 16% drop in just two months. Still, that was a 60% increase from what we had paid just 20 months before.

Prices continued to drop afterwards to the point that in West Vancouver which was the hardest hit. The drop was 40%. The next year, the goverment imposed wage and price controls. Prices of everything (especially food) was rising very quickly while real estate was in the dumps. My condo in North Vancr had risen to around $75,000 (7.5 times my salary) before falling back to around $45000.

I didn’t follow the prices after that but I recall clearly that in 1986 that same unit was selling for around $75,000. Same as what it had risen in value in 1974.

I thought this might be of interest to others out there. Not sure if it was us old boomers that caused the problem but there are some that would say that. Don’t know how that could be but whatever.

#44 Popeye the sailor man on 01.19.20 at 7:43 pm

https://tee4lives.com/products/sorry-for-what-i-said-funny-parking-the-camper-t-shirt-standard-t-shirt-45?variant=30358105817139&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&currency=USD&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmZDxBRDIARIsABnkbYRq58dTyAxo4rM6NBVwMjiRGv0cSm_dl95xGFj3J4f26uweBC0sQ4AaArfREALw_wcB

#45 YouKnowWho on 01.19.20 at 7:45 pm

Garth,

You have to admit, the more you step back and look at the whole picture – the political decisions, no bank risk, CMHC, everything that has happened, this whole Canadian Real Estate thing looks like a giant play for tax revenue by the overspending politicians with side benefit of economic activity to push it forward.

They are addicted on the cheap property tax and transfer revenue so badly, they will keep it going as long as they can. And when the RE tax revenue starts shrinking as you say, they will make it up on individuals with increases.

#46 Popeye the sailor man on 01.19.20 at 7:47 pm

A large fenced yard for our kids and our DOG was a big factor in our housing decision.

If 33% think the same that might be smart to keep that in mind even if you don’t have a dog, for resale demand.

#47 Popeye the sailor man on 01.19.20 at 7:49 pm

Lord Love a Duck (Picture Quote)

#48 kommykim on 01.19.20 at 7:51 pm

RE:#19 BlogDog123 on 01.19.20 at 4:33 pm
Read this week’s Economist magazine. A whole section on housing.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/01/16/home-ownership-is-the-wests-biggest-economic-policy-mistake

=======================================

There is a house down the street from me with the same retarded roof line as pictured in the Economist article you linked. 30ft wide lot and it sold recently for around $700K.

#49 Nonplused on 01.19.20 at 7:55 pm

“The dog doesn’t care.”

That is true, except for apartments and such. Big dogs need big spaces. But I have never met a dog that doesn’t love camping, even in a tent. In the old days the dogs always slept on the bed for warmth (hence the phrase “dog pile”). Put them in a tent and they are happy to sleep in-between mom and dad. Or on them or beside them or just push you off the bed all-together. Kids, actually, are much the same. The Scouts make a business of taking kids camping in tents (even in the winter!). When kids and dogs agree on something, it’s probably ok.

Home is where your internet connection is. If you have enough data on your phone plan, that can be anywhere.

—————

“(c) Wage inflation hasn’t kept up with price inflation and new buyers are at risk as never before.”

This is the true crux of the matter. Inner city homes will always be “worth” more than house in the burbs due to the commute. So we have to look at what is happening to the price of homes in the burbs to figure out what is happening. There are of course renos and rebuilds being done downtown, but the true point of supply and demand is the burbs. So what is happening there?

Step one is restricted supply by developers in bed with municipal counselors to maintain profit margins. But this alone is only designed to protect profit margins, so it has a cost but only so much cost. Let’s say it’s 10%, because most businesses these days are good with 10%. Ecstatic actually.

Step 2 is inflation. We all know the central banks want to keep that around 2%, and it compounds, so we are going to see a 2%/y increase in the cost of housing no matter what. And everything else for that matter.

But that 10% profit and 2% inflation doesn’t add up to nearly what we have seen. So there must be a step 3.

And it turns out there is: Taxes. When you buy or build a new house, you are buying a lot of materials and hiring a lot of people, directly or indirectly. The factory that builds the glue-board pays taxes, the employees at the lumber mill pay taxes, Home Depot pays taxes, their employees pay taxes, the plumber pays taxes, whoever made the pipe pays taxes, the electrician pays taxes, the carpenters pay taxes, even if you go with Ikea kitchen cabinets everyone involved in that pays taxes, the company that paves the road pays taxes, and then there is a 5-11% GST or HST tax on the new house itself, after all the other taxes. And the new home owner pays all of those taxes, all of them, with after tax money from when he/she was already taxed at his/her work.

We, as a society, are way over-taxed. This is why the cost of everything is going through the roof. All taxes must be implicitly embedded in price if they are not explicitly added to the price after. This is why everything is so damn expensive. You pay up to 50% tax on your income, but everyone you hire to do some damn thing is also paying 50% on what you pay them.

This is why everything is so damn expensive and it will only get worse with all the new taxes they are creating to try and “fix” the problems caused by the old taxes. The money has to come from somewhere. It shows up in price. It is no coincidence that the great inflation started when the income tax became law. A little at first, but exponential, so a lot now.

—————-

Different subject: The price of new cars and indeed car repairs has followed housing to the moon. Why? Well, again, taxes, see above. Every part that goes into a car is taxed multiple times though multiple corporations and multiple employees. You have to pay all those taxes when you buy a car. But there has been a second point of creep (which may apply to housing as well), and that is regulations. The things a car manufacturer now has to do to an engine to make it compliant is insane. And they have to add airbags and anti-lock braking even though there is no evidence that those things save more lives than they kill. But the auto manufacturers don’t mind, every new gizmo they all have to bolt on is one more thing they can charge you more for. And it makes it impossible for you to fix your own car so more money from the service center (and more taxes). And the government knows full well what it is doing, because the more the car costs and the more complicated it is, the more taxes. Did smog need to be reduced? Well, yes. Does an F150 need to get 26 mpg on the highway? No. The fuel savings is not enough to meaningfully justify the cost of that engine and the repairs. But there is a lot more tax to be gained from a $50,000 truck than one that costs $30,000. Even just the HST difference will fuel the lower cost truck for a year.

We are being taxed and regulated to death and that is why everything is damn expensive, and nobody has any money for retirement or health insurance.

#50 YouKnowWho on 01.19.20 at 7:59 pm

Police Academy

It’s on Netflix. Filmed in Toronto mid 80s. Watch it. See for yourself what a dump Toronto was. Wonder if it can become like that soon again with this expensive RE and stagnant income draining people.

Certainly the quality of all this new rushed construction will make it easy for hoods to turn to dumps.

#51 Keyboard Smasher on 01.19.20 at 8:01 pm

This heinous dog-posting must be targeted at me.

I declare a Fatwah against this blog.

#52 kommykim on 01.19.20 at 8:06 pm

RE: #37 Randy on 01.19.20 at 6:43 pm
You are already penalized for owning a nice home. Our bullshit property tax system is based on the alleged market value of the property.

========================================

That’s a bit of a myth. Your property taxes are based on the mill rate AND your assessment. Your municipality adjusts the mill rate every year to ensure they get enough revenue. Therefore if your property’s “value” goes up by 20% along with everyone else, your property taxes do not necessarily go up by 20% but only by the Municipality’s increased budget requirements. Usually 2-5%…

#53 YouKnowWho on 01.19.20 at 8:25 pm

Speaking of quality of construction around the city….

I can’t believe how many friends and acquaintances are telling me stories of special assessments and nightmares on their relatively new homes due to construction issues.

From failing windows freezing up, to big elevator issues, to a friend recently telling me that their condo in an old church that was converted to hipster condos has bricks falling on people from the church bell tower and will result in significant costs for unit owners to fix this tall weird structurethat’s falling apart made entirely of old flaky failing bricks. Hopefully it doesn’t need to be rebuilt from scratch as access alone is going to be costly due to the way they designed the modifications on top of their building.

But one story I heard is straight up scary and should be highlighted. So here it is…

A buddy owns a crib at Gerrard St. East surrounded by Fairhead Mews. This cluster of town homes is built on a raised concrete platform. I recently pulled into visitor spots under and the whole platform upon which the complex is built is falling apart due to shady constructions. Risk of collapse, water problems, people unable to use the garages built under their town homes. It looks so scary that when I pulled in and saw it I backed out like a bat out of hell due to the mess of supports trying to hold up all these homes making it look like the whole thing is ready to fall apart any second.

The cost will be significant, if they can even fix it. Estimates at $50K range per home owner right now, and that if there will be no surprises. Of course there is an issue. The issue is that only the town homes in the middle of this cluster are impacted. The ones on the outside edge of the platform are not.

The company that built it is long gone, even though these things are something like 10 years old. As smart dudes, they registered a corporation for this specific project, once built, they wound it down – a practice present in nearly every large project apparently.

There is no one to sue for the shady construction. The owners have been told they stand no chance of success now that the corporation created for their single project is no longer in existence.

As you can imagine, the tenants on the periphery of the cluster who aren’t effected by the huge structural issues don’t want to have to pay. The ones in the middle want the load and liability to be share by all, even if they are not effected. It’s turning ugly. Neighbour against neighbour. They are suing each other to pay for the crappy construction and what are without doubt fundamental design issues for the complex.

Sound like fun, right? No one is selling, because no one will buy into this disaster. You wouldn’t even want to park your car under this disaster, never mind buy into it. If it ever gets fixed so it looks good enough of a bandaid for people to get out, look for the current owners to try to bail and dump to new fools before this whole fiasco repeats – because this place wasn’t built to last. I won’t even get into the quality issues the dude had when he took the keys to the brand new place barely more than a decade ago.

You think this is an isolated case of shady quality construction in the city of Toronto?

#54 Doug t on 01.19.20 at 8:40 pm

LMAO it’s stories like this that make Millennials hate Boomers

#55 jsto on 01.19.20 at 8:49 pm

“We sold the house in 2010 in Kelowna and rented a two bed condo the minute the kids left the house. Our son called and said, “I guess this means I can’t ever come back”, which of course was the point.”
I find this vicious and outrageous. I would never say that to my kid or anyone for that matter…What is wrong with you, people…

#56 Thedood on 01.19.20 at 9:05 pm

9 Steven Rowlandson on 01.19.20 at 2:53 pm
Overspending on a home is only possible due to people being too dumb to offer less for the property and the sellers and sales people treating homes as investment vehicles that only go up in price largely due to the vendors and sales people demanding more and more for the property or the salesman inflating the price estimate for the vendor. It is the law of more. People want more profits and commissions so they jack up the price and the suckers trying to buy think they have no choice but to pay too much for too little.
__———_—————————————————————————

Bingo!!!! Buyers ALWAYS have the power. Way too many people just don’t realize it and don’t know how to exercise it.

#57 Shawn Allen on 01.19.20 at 9:18 pm

Car Price inflation?

Nonplused at 40 said:

Different subject: The price of new cars and indeed car repairs has followed housing to the moon.

****************************
Car repairs maybe. Car but not new car costs.

New car costs exploded in the 70’s and perhaps most of the 80’s with high inflation. Since then not so much. And the features and reliability on cars are immensely better today than circa 1980. And have gotten better every year.

I bought a Dodge Grand Caravan in 1997 really basic and it was about $23,000 including GST. No provincial sales tax as this was in Alberta. and there was a bit of a sale. Price on Dodge Carvans has hovered around the same ever since (especially when they have a sale on) and the quality far higher. (Was truly junk in 1997).

Bought a Honda CRV in 2003 fairly loaded version for about $33k. I don’t think I would pay much more today and it would have far more features today. If its around $40k that is not a ton of inflation in 17 years. Not compared to houses.

Okay so most manufactured things are cheap. Houses and even building lots are sort of manufactured in a way but the cost has not come down. Where are the cost savings due to better productivity?

#58 Thedood on 01.19.20 at 9:20 pm

9 Steven Rowlandson on 01.19.20 at 2:53 pm
Overspending on a home is only possible due to people being too dumb to offer less for the property and the sellers and sales people treating homes as investment vehicles that only go up in price largely due to the vendors and sales people demanding more and more for the property or the salesman inflating the price estimate for the vendor. It is the law of more. People want more profits and commissions so they jack up the price and the suckers trying to buy think they have no choice but to pay too much for too little.
_______________________________

Bingo!

Buyers ALWAYS have the power. Too many dummies just cannot get their puny heads around that.

#59 JuliaS on 01.19.20 at 10:09 pm

In a gig economy a house is an anchor and a liability. Additionally, modern kids don’t know how to fix things on their own, so the upkeep costs them more than it used to for the Red Green Show generation. Planned obsolescence in household appliances also drives up carrying costs, on top of predatory taxes, strata and whatever.

Home ownership should be frowned upon in light of the times we live in. Renting is the only way to go. Own fewer things, be mobile and be prepared to go places others won’t go, because that’s where the best wages are.

When buying a house, don’t take on more than you’re willing to loose, and you’ll be happy.

#60 Fortune500 on 01.19.20 at 10:28 pm

Let’s be fair. Our family is at the beginning of the Millenials and are staring at 40 not too soon. We did the ‘rent’ thing and had 3 kids under 5 in a two bedroom apartment at one stage. The idea that wanting to have yard space/acreage and more permanent surroundings for one’s family should not seem ridiculous to our elders.

As for the housing stock, our family would be very happy with a small bungalow or modest home, but in our area 3 bedroom 2 bathrooms with 1 acre (we live in a rural location in Ontario) go from $180-250,000 for very rough century farm houses or 80s homes that have never been updated and then there is a jump to $599,000 for anything else (household income around $70,000 in this area before tax). We don’t want the McMansions, or the homes being built, but it is slim pickings for anything reasonable in between.

All these news articles talk about Millenials ‘wanting’ certain things, when more often than not, it is determined by what is being built and sold.

#61 D Apostrophe on 01.19.20 at 10:38 pm

Still can’t believe what I’m witnessing. I’m willing to bet $$$$ that this s**t show in the GTA will make LA’s leveling a decade ago look like a birthday party where Oprah gives away cars. Especially when you consider most of these amateur landlords can’t even afford to put in a fridge or stove. Sheesh kids, I hope you’re saving your money. A helluva, once in a lifetime deal built from the stupidity of many.

#62 Nonplused on 01.19.20 at 10:40 pm

Worth viewing Scott Adams #792 on Youtube starting about minute 40.

He’s trying to teach people how to deal with anxiety, a topic touched on in the last few episodes.

“The million idiot filter”.

To summarize, you are worried about buying a house, getting a job, raising children, all your worries. Realize that millions of idiots have figured out how to do it. People in the bottom 50%.

Now, sure, YVR and YYZ are perhaps markets that belong only to the idiots. But as Garth has said time and time again all real estate is local. And some gems like his bank building or the ice cream store he used to have need a rethink to unleash their true value. And if you have a good job in Winnipeg, it’s ok to buy. If all markets crash, we are all screwed, so just stay away from the local insanities.

What I just can’t figure out is how all these snow boarders can afford lift tickets. Or these guys that don’t work can ride around on their Harley’s and hang in the pub all day. But they do. So don’t worry so much. So maybe Christ was right when he said “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.”

It is still good to save when Dog give you a good crop so that you have food when a bad crop comes, but worry changes nothing unless you do something about it. And my experience would be that the people who are doing things, don’t worry.

#63 IHCTD9 on 01.19.20 at 11:15 pm

#59 JuliaS on 01.19.20 at 10:09 pm

Additionally, modern kids don’t know how to fix things on their own, so the upkeep costs them more than it used to for the Red Green Show generation.
———

I lived most of my life thinking most guys were similar to me, and figured I’d be living vicariously through projects the younger dudes were doing when I got older.

Imagine my shock, when one day years ago it became known to me that many 30 something dudes may not know how to change a tire.

IMHO, any Man should be able to do the following (at least) work on their car:

Change a damn tire
Brakes
Wheel bearings
All fluids/filters
Wipers
Headlights/signals/tails

Ideally, a young guy should do a whole lot more than that.

#64 Dr V on 01.19.20 at 11:35 pm

Havent seen anybody post this yet??

http://demographia.com/dhi.pdf

Woohoo! Go Comox! Go Nanaimo!

#65 Al on 01.19.20 at 11:41 pm

“Has he kept his mouth shut all these years and collected a paycheque to do something he never believed in?”

Yes that’s what too many, if not most, do unfortunately. Creates a lot of misery to our fellow human beings.

#66 Barb on 01.19.20 at 11:55 pm

#43 Ronaldo on 01.19.20 at 7:18 pm
———————————
That brought back a lot of memories.

In 1969 I lived in College Park, Port Moody w my parents. They paid in the low $20Ks too.

Got a nice job in downtown Vancouver and made $440 a month. In 1970 bought a new Firebird for $4,200, a full tank of gas was just over $4.00.

Quit job the next year, and started at Nabob in Burnaby for $611 a month.
Got married 1971, and we saved like crazy to buy our first house…and did a year later in PoCo.

Prior to home ownership, we rented an apartment on 12th Avenue. Who knew we were supposed to throw the Christmas Tree over our third floor balcony after the holidays? I (carefully) dragged it down the hall, into elevator, etc. The super followed the “breadcrumbs” right back to my apartment, so I had to vacuum the halls to compensate for my stupidity.

Left LM in 1977. Rush hour here is 5 cars ahead at the traffic light.

Thanks for the memories, Ronaldo.

#67 Yukon Elvis on 01.19.20 at 11:57 pm

#55 jsto on 01.19.20 at 8:49 pm
“We sold the house in 2010 in Kelowna and rented a two bed condo the minute the kids left the house. Our son called and said, “I guess this means I can’t ever come back”, which of course was the point.”
I find this vicious and outrageous. I would never say that to my kid or anyone for that matter…What is wrong with you, people…
…………………………..

Totally agree. When my kids left I told them that I would always be here for them. They can always come back or I will go to them. They will always have backup until I am dead.

#68 Jmr on 01.20.20 at 12:26 am

steve Rowlandson, thdood etc on the buyer has the power

The buyer has the power???? I’d love to grasp where you are coming from but my experience is that the system has been fully loaded by the real estate industry aided and abetted by government against the buyers. As an attempting first time buyer I have been appalled at how even though I am the only one coming to the table with money, money to pay the seller, the buyers agent, ‘my’ agent – what a joke, the welcome tax, the notary costs, mortgage interest… and yet I can find no-one taking a cut looking out for my interests (lower price, true value assessment, at what price points is buying equitable to renting…) Water water everywhere and nary a drop to drink. I cant even get access to the value of recent market sales activity but only those ’my’ agent selects to tell me to support their narrative. Surely we’ve made lower offers but they have only been used to leverage other offers particularly from specker/developers onto an empty table into a bidding war scenario. ‘Fixer uppers’ seem to be kept from us and saved for those in the flipping industry- kick backs? If I try to go through duproprio the seller has access to all sorts of comparables for pricing, buyers no help whatsoever. How is a first time buyer supposed to figure out how to navigate this minefield? I feel like a blind sitting duck trying to make the largest purchase we have ever made in our lives in a deeply predatory industry. So far as I see it not buying is our only ‘power’. And that can result in the glory of a rolling stone rv retirement lifestyle so you won’t have to be a part of your own kids lives? That is so so bleak.

#69 LP on 01.20.20 at 12:34 am

#55 jsto on 01.19.20 at 8:49 pm

I find this vicious and outrageous. I would never say that to my kid or anyone for that matter…What is wrong with you, people…
********************************************

Several years ago my husband’s brother-in-law related a story to us about neighbours of theirs in St. Catharine
s.

Apparently the couple, very affluent but aging, still lived in the family home with their 3 adult kids, all professionals making really great money. Home was so comfortable that none of them wanted to leave even though their parents spoke often about wanting to sell and move to a small condo so they could travel.

After months of hints and almost begging the offspring to find other places to live, mom and dad finally put the house up for sale. It sold in the first week. It had a short closing date. Kids had to scramble to make other living arrangements.

#70 Shirl Clarts on 01.20.20 at 12:52 am

#9 Steven Rowlandson on 01.19.20 at 2:53 pm
Overspending on a home is only possible due to people being too dumb to offer less for the property and the sellers and sales people treating homes as investment vehicles that only go up in price largely due to the vendors and sales people demanding more and more for the property or the salesman inflating the price estimate for the vendor. It is the law of more. People want more profits and commissions so they jack up the price and the suckers trying to buy think they have no choice but to pay too much for too little.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I totally get you, but EVERYONE PRICES THEIR HOME THIS WAY!

The buyers aren’t dumb. They have little choice or wiggle room. And renting is a $$$ joke in the LML

You are basically describing Supply and Demand.

I think even Garth if he lived in the LML, had 100k household income would find the buy vs rent debate extremely challenging. He would probably rationalize buying like the rest of us poor souls. Look at the rent supply out here (price and quality). Its an absolute joke. Buying gives you a much higher standard of living.

#71 Rocking Randy on 01.20.20 at 1:03 am

Trudeau is setting an example for you. Don’t take life so seriously. It’s all acting.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/20/coronavirus-china-confirms-new-cases-as-virus-spreads-to-new-cities.html

Disease spilling in, checks at airports? Don’t be silly.

#72 Shirl Clarts on 01.20.20 at 1:03 am

#12 DON on 01.19.20 at 3:12 pm
Prediction:

Soon we will see realtor ads show casing possible doggie rooms and houses with automatic dog doors in order to entice people to buy.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Already there. Newer build condos in Winnipeg offer dog shower stalls in the lower common area. Umm, more “bark bark!” In a confined dwelling is not a selling feature for everyone. But can you blame them? They are competing with detached housing for the same price (“ruffly”) around 250k avg in some very decent hoods.

#73 Ford, Doug Ford on 01.20.20 at 1:52 am

We have to automate teaching

#74 Rico on 01.20.20 at 2:18 am

Cheers to Phil…We sold our residential real estate in 2012 and found a comfortable rental for a few years. We are on our second lap of North America in our 35 foot travel trailer after retiring in 2018. There is way too much to see and do on this awesome continent to be bound to a house and taxes in the early years of retirement. In the fall of 2018, after visiting Garth in Lunenburg we went for a sail on the Bluenose II. Eight weeks later we were getting bourbon faced on shit street in New Orleans…yup, as Phil said, crawfish and gumbo. After golfing our way across the southern states we had to find our way back to Canada to finish our first lap. We are well around on our second lap now (I’m writing from Arizona), and yes there have been issues, but, none worse than broken pipes, snow storms on both coasts, minus 44 wind chills in the prairies, or fancy sock dudes embarassing us on national TV. After chasing “The Dream” of ownership most of our lives, the last couple of years have taught us that freedom is much more precious and satisfying .

M59BC

#75 Shirl Clarts on 01.20.20 at 3:00 am

#27, you know so much about the Leafs I would swear you were a fan that watches all the games.

#76 Ustabe on 01.20.20 at 3:29 am

I’m with #38 IHCTD9, although I’d probably word it a bit differently, different but parallel paths and all that.

However it doesn’t matter how comfortable and happy those of us who live in smaller communities are seems most of the distressed and angry who constantly post on here about what ails them will not listen.

Fine by me. I own some P&G so keep on buying that Metamucil and bitching and moaning.

Thing is bitching and moaning is like poking someone with a fork…just irritating. Yammering away on the same/same over and over is both problematic in the lack of intellectual acuity being brought to bear on the issue and emblematic of the seeming joy of putting ill formed opinion out there as if it actually means something. Seeing what drivel you manage to sneak past Garth does not equate to the veracity of what you have had published.

I’ve asked before…who has a solution? Bring solutions.

IHCTD9 seems to have it figured, I think I have as well. For some of the rest of you I honestly don’t think I’d chose to share an elevator.

#77 Steven Rowlandson on 01.20.20 at 3:41 am

Well #1 some would call it a conspiracy to profit and others would say it is about market forces but the real right and guys like me condemn it and call it what it is. It is Genocide under article 2 section c and d of the genocide convention and their intent to profit regardless of the effects of their unlimited greed is the intent to destroy a race, nationality or religious group in whole or in part. They are not deterred by morality or conscience and they want profits no matter what and the government and realtors have told people that they can have it and in some cases tax free. They think the 3 years pay rule based on one income and a 25% down payment is nonsense, they think that everyone is getting 6 figure incomes and they think men and their wives should slave away, pool their incomes and give the real estate market damned near everything the taxman doesn’t take and they think it is okay if having few or no children is okay also. It is not just genocide it is slavery and it must end before our people end.
Genocide under the guise of a business deal is still genocide.

#78 Gerald Boots on 01.20.20 at 4:14 am

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/south-korea-confirms-first-case-of-new-coronavirus-in-chinese-visitor

Whooops. The new killer is traveling through airports. Canada has no defensive measures. Hundreds killed by neglect last time in Toronto.

And btw, has anyone heard a peep from Gerry Butts since Trudeaus personality shift? What’s the matter Gerald, can’t admit that you were hated?

#79 NoName on 01.20.20 at 4:31 am

This is kind of interesting, peak misery kid of…

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/2B002E02-360F-11EA-910B-A12296EDE17A?__twitter_impression=true

#80 Woke to Sounds of Horking on 01.20.20 at 7:32 am

Garth, blog dogs, I’ve got a tractor trailer of cash looking for parking in Canadian real estate. I think I’ve developed a jones for slum lording. There seems to be a bit of a housing conundrum there.
Cash deals only. Will not even consider Regina.
50 Years of Maple Leaf Incompetence!, good to see you again!

#81 Captain Uppa on 01.20.20 at 7:35 am

By the way, the GTA rutting frenzy of 2016-early 2017 is back. Especially for houses in the 700-under 1M range. I follow it on HouseSigma and DOM has drastically dropped back down to same-day sales or under a week. Further, prices are starting to go OVER asking again.

This rocket ship has more fuel. It will be interesting to watch, especially with listings plummeting.

I’m not a realtor, just relaying my personal observation.

#82 Phylis on 01.20.20 at 8:06 am

#63 IHCTD9 on 01.19.20 at 11:15 pm Hmmmm, I haven’t done a wheel bearing yet. One more checkmark and I’ll be a man! ;)

Don’t forget to clean your hubs.

#83 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.20.20 at 8:10 am

@#78 Gerald’s Booted
“The new killer is traveling through airports. Canada has no defensive measures. Hundreds killed by neglect last time in Toronto.”
+++++

Let’s see how quickly the corona virus mutates/spreads after the Chinese New year celebrations and hundreds of millions of Mainland tourists are obligated to visit family and friends……

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/20/coronavirus-spreads-to-beijing-as-china-confirms-new-cases

Apocalypse 2020 must be in the bunker.

#84 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.20.20 at 8:19 am

@#53 youknowwho
“There is no one to sue for the shady construction. The owners have been told they stand no chance of success now that the corporation created for their single project is no longer in existence.”
++++

Welcome to BC’s “Leaky Condo” fiasco.
It’s been going on for at least 25 years.
Condos.
Slapped together by an endless parade of subcontractors that leave town or wrap up their companies as soon as the job is done.
No one to warranty the job or sue.
Canada’s third world country construction…

#85 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.20.20 at 8:22 am

@#50 youknowwho
“See for yourself what a dump Toronto was….”
+++++

It’s changed?

#86 Dharma Bum on 01.20.20 at 8:27 am

Working people cannot afford to own, and yet owning remains the dream Siddall is talking about. – Garth
——————————————————————–
de·sire

/dəˈzī(ə)r/

noun

a strong feeling of wanting to have something

*********************************************

“Joy comes not through possession or ownership but through a wise and loving heart.” – G.B.

#87 JB on 01.20.20 at 9:34 am

Who in their right mind would purchase a condo at this time with these super inflated prices. You will never ever get your investment back out. The price right now in the GTA is off the charts due to the in affordability of SFH. Our older neighbours where looking to unload their home here downtown (1700 sq ft) two story and purchase a new 950 sq ft Condo. They though they were going to get away like bank robbers however when they looked at what they would get for their home and what the cost of a condo was about 1 km from here they were flabergasted. First they did the math on the fees and that was going to eat into their offset gain on the sale. Then they realized they would be with renters. Giovanni my neighbour is Italian his wife is old school Canadian from Winnipeg and they are not into living with transient renters and he is dead set against drug use so I mentioned that marijuana is legal and people can smoke it in the building. They are staying he said a condo is too mucha money for what you get. I said you are right crazy people have driven the price up its not worth it.

#88 Ace on 01.20.20 at 9:37 am

Building more “SFH” are only wrong now that the builders aren’t selling them as quickly as they once were. Now they can only sell the townhomes and semis because that’s all anyone can afford. Coming soon, all builders will get permits to build subdivisions of attached home living in giant empty fields to increase their profit and boost sales once again.

#89 IHCTD9 on 01.20.20 at 9:39 am

#57 Shawn Allen on 01.19.20 at 9:18 pm

Car Price inflation?
____

Cars – a new ’20 Hyundai Accent is 20K, and you can finance one for $64.00/week for crying out loud. A 16 year old who works part time at McDonalds could afford that.

The Big 3 here have pretty much given up on trying to make money on cars and have focused on more expensive vehicles (trucks / SUV’s). The car competition is too tough o make any $.

At the same time, BMW, MB, and Audi are losing market share on the high end of things (their old stomping grounds), and find themselves cranking out more cheapies (like 3/C/A sedans) to satisfy the demand coming almost exclusively from Millennials, where they are seeing big sales growth.

Meanwhile GM has emerged as the fastest growing luxury brand on the planet over 60K USD. GM by itself sold more full sized trucks than all Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz models COMBINED (60K+) in 2018. More affluent folks are trading in their Benz’s on a new F150 Limited and are willing to pony up big bucks for them.

The North American Auto market right now truly has something for everyone though. I’ll bet by the end of 2020, any unsold new ’19 Accents will be blown out for 17-18K with super good financing deals – affordable for almost anyone. On the flip side, a richer dude can drop 95K on a sweet 2020 Sierra 2500HD Denali Diesel – and it’ll be parked a stones throw from said Accent.

#90 TurnerNation on 01.20.20 at 9:54 am

Attack on SFH. For years I’ve predicted that home Energy Audits are coming. The banks or insurance or govt would require them. That families would be forced into the street if their perfectly good house will not pass.

Natural gas prices at decade lows: amazing and cheap but out elite rulers will not let us have it

https://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=NG&p=m1

But the push its to electricity, Climate Change you see! Yes this is the agenda.
RECORD high electricity prices, controlled by government Crown corps, pushing us into energy poverty. Yes climate change can do all that. It can enslave and impoverish. A perfect tool

This is the top story on this bitter day. I tell you this moving SO fast now into 2021.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/greener-heating-1.5429709

Goodbye gas furnaces? Why electrification is the future of home heating

#91 IHCTD9 on 01.20.20 at 10:21 am

#82 Phylis on 01.20.20 at 8:06 am
#63 IHCTD9 on 01.19.20 at 11:15 pm Hmmmm, I haven’t done a wheel bearing yet. One more checkmark and I’ll be a man! ;)

Don’t forget to clean your hubs.
___

You are above average so…

Here is a list for more advanced pursuers of Manhood:

Replace Brake line
Replace Fuel line
Re/Re exhaust manifold gaskets and studs

The above jobs will also supplement your Manhood in the form of increased pain tolerance, better anger management, and vast increases in vocabulary, lung capacity and vocal cord strength.

#92 PetertheSeparatistfromCalgary on 01.20.20 at 10:23 am

Canada’s birthrate is below replacement so housing prices will decrease if we stop immigration. Fewer people means the stock of existing housing will exceed demand and prices will eventually crash.

However, the government will not decrease immigration because they run debts and social programs that need an ever expanding population of workers to support. Our government is basically a giant ponzi scheme. That ponzi scheme not housing supply is the real problem that keeps us on this tread mill of increasing population thought immigration and higher housing costs. Due to declining global birth rates the supply of immigrants will eventually crash along with global population and our federal government will be in real trouble.

The only real long term solution is to replace workers with robots. That won’t happen in Canada as long as we discourage investment with things like the carbon tax and other anti investment environmental virtue signals.

This is just one more reason Alberta should separate! We should get out before the demographic time bomb of global declining birthrates and declining investment in Canada crashes our federal government’s ponzi scheme.

Have you been sipping bitumen again? – Garth

#93 Sail Away on 01.20.20 at 10:25 am

#90 TurnerNation on 01.20.20 at 9:54 am

Attack on SFH. For years I’ve predicted that home Energy Audits are coming. The banks or insurance or govt would require them.

—————————

Oh the energy audits are indeed coming. I just opened a letter a month ago warning designers/developers that all new construction will soon be subject to energy audit for occupancy.

#94 X on 01.20.20 at 10:29 am

“in Toronto we’re just days away from a new uber-land-transfer-tax on top-end homes”

I know this will get pitched as we are taxing the rich, but all it will do is make homes cheaper for the wealthy (at the end of the day they may simply pay the same amount out of picket) but do absolutely nothing for 95% of the population.

But yeah, we got that big bad rich guy didn’t we.

#95 Phylis on 01.20.20 at 10:33 am

Goodbye gas furnaces? Why electrification is the future of home heating

Oh no, not again. It was the future back in the eighties.

#96 MF on 01.20.20 at 10:34 am

#87 JB on 01.20.20 at 9

Very true.

Everyone is focused on how much their own property is worth. They forget that when they sell, if they want to move into the same area, prices are higher everywhere and they too will overpay.

True story: my boomer parents and I went condo shopping in 2013. They kept saying “how much for this apartment?!” And were flabbergasted at the prices (in 2013). We ended up not buying because their boomer minds couldn’t get around spending hundreds of thousands for 600sq feet. They had never had mortgage debt on any of our homes, and were correctly afraid of debt.

It’s only in our low interest rate, cmhc insured, post 2008 warped financial system world where these things are considered normal.

The central banks have created a mess, and now they can’t get out of it. I heard a BoC report about possibly lowering rates again? Lol real smart move there..

MF

#97 DON on 01.20.20 at 10:37 am

#29 Ken M. on 01.19.20 at 5:36 pm

#11 DON on 01.19.20 at 3:07 pm
I wonder how this post will be received by anyone lacking in reading comprehension and/or critical thinking.
================

Oh you mean the regular commentators on here.
**************************

Blank Stare

#98 Toronto_CA on 01.20.20 at 10:37 am

Air bnb needs to be taxed and agressively banned in condo units – this will relax rents which are going haywire because people are buying units then airbnb’ing them instead of renting them out. Buying the condos for airbnb is having a big impact on the housing market generally.

Cities globally are finally waking up to the impact of Airbnb on their housing stock – too little too late obviously but the sharing economy needs to be regulated when it concerns something as fundamental as housing.

#99 IHCTD9 on 01.20.20 at 10:53 am

#90 TurnerNation on 01.20.20 at 9:54 am

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/greener-heating-1.5429709

Goodbye gas furnaces? Why electrification is the future of home heating.
____

Not in a million years in Ontario. We all remember what prices were under Wynne, and we know that these are the real costs (if not still too low). The guys mopping the floors at OPG are still on the sunshine list.

The CBC actually reported on northern Ontario folks with their 800.00-1000.00 hydro bills during this era.

Ford or some other Politician will someday HAVE to put prices back up to where they need to be, or send the whole shebang into bankruptcy (again).

No Ontario builder is going to put a damn electric furnace in any of their new homes unless there is a complete, outright ban on every other single option. They want to sell the homes and make money – not offer giant discounts just to move them. Electric furnaces and baseboards are piled high in the scrap yards out here for good bloody reason.

#100 Thedood on 01.20.20 at 11:26 am

#68 Jmr on 01.20.20 at 12:26 am
steve Rowlandson, thdood etc on the buyer has the power

The buyer has the power???? I’d love to grasp where you are coming from but my experience is that the system has been fully loaded by the real estate industry aided and abetted by government against the buyers. As an attempting first time buyer I have been appalled at how even though I am the only one coming to the table with money, money to pay the seller, the buyers agent, ‘my’ agent – what a joke, the welcome tax, the notary costs, mortgage interest… and yet I can find no-one taking a cut looking out for my interests (lower price, true value assessment, at what price points is buying equitable to renting…) Water water everywhere and nary a drop to drink. I cant even get access to the value of recent market sales activity but only those ’my’ agent selects to tell me to support their narrative. Surely we’ve made lower offers but they have only been used to leverage other offers particularly from specker/developers onto an empty table into a bidding war scenario. ‘Fixer uppers’ seem to be kept from us and saved for those in the flipping industry- kick backs? If I try to go through duproprio the seller has access to all sorts of comparables for pricing, buyers no help whatsoever. How is a first time buyer supposed to figure out how to navigate this minefield? I feel like a blind sitting duck trying to make the largest purchase we have ever made in our lives in a deeply predatory industry. So far as I see it not buying is our only ‘power’. And that can result in the glory of a rolling stone rv retirement lifestyle so you won’t have to be a part of your own kids lives? That is so so bleak.

___________________________________________

You are not wrong. It is a minefield. But given the amount of money a real estate transaction is going to cost you, you need to come to the table prepared to be as ruthless as those sitting opposite. Realtors are sales people, they only make money when a transaction occurs and they are only interested in one thing – extract as much money as they can out of a buyer’s hand to complete a sale. The higher the sale price, the higher the commission for Buyer and Seller agents. Its sad, but that’s the system you’re up against. Never assume the agent working for you has your best interests in mind. They are not your friend. If you feel at any time they don’t represent your interests, dump them and move on. If you’re the only one coming to the table with money, what a fantastic position to be in, let’s start the bidding at 40% lower than ‘ask’ shall we? No??

#101 Linda on 01.20.20 at 11:37 am

#60 ‘fortune’ – I think you may have confirmed the belief that Millennial wants trump common sense. What is wrong with a ‘very rough century farm house’ or ’80’s house that has never been updated’ if the cost is within one’s price range & it has enough bedrooms/bathrooms? You complain about the price jump for housing you presumably are willing to consider, but turn down anything that isn’t exactly what you want? Hello? If you can buy one of the despised places for $180-$250K you could also do the work to upgrade it to the luxury swank of your dreams – just not immediately. I’d add that the properties that you won’t consider probably are better built than those pricey new builds that are out of your price range. Just saying.

#102 Condo Developer on 01.20.20 at 11:50 am

73 Ford, Doug Ford on 01.20.20 at 1:52 am

Lol Doug Ford is that you in the explicit video that somehow got past the censors?

How much did you bribe Garth Turner to let you post that video of yourself?

#103 IHCTD9 on 01.20.20 at 11:57 am

I did my own “energy audit” of our old farm house years ago – it was completed the first winter after moving in (cough).

It wasn’t worth increasing efficiency, too much work, too much money. Much better was to invest in cheap heat, and keep cycling the cheaper fuel in as required.

We were Oil, then Pellets, then Pellets primary and Propane supplement, next will be Wood primary and Propane backup.

Pump the heat in there like no tomorrow when it’s 20 below or colder. Right now I have 224,000 BTU’s worth of heating power all in if needed. Very few days in a year will it be cold enough that I need to fire two stoves and the Oil burner simultaneously.

Next year with any luck, I’ll have a self designed and built up-draft outdoor gasifier pumping 50-250K BTU’s and fed by $30.00/bush cord sawmill slab-wood, and a brand spanking new Propane furnace as back up. Good bye wood pellets and Oil, hello 400.00 annual heating Bill and 350K BTU potential for those really, really cold days.

#104 BobC on 01.20.20 at 12:07 pm

#94 X
“in Toronto we’re just days away from a new uber-land-transfer-tax on top-end homes”

I know this will get pitched as we are taxing the rich, but all it will do is make homes cheaper for the wealthy (at the end of the day they may simply pay the same amount out of picket) but do absolutely nothing for 95% of the population.

But yeah, we got that big bad rich guy didn’t we.

Brought to mind something I was told back in the LBJ ‘60’s days.

“There’s nothing you can do to hurt the wealthy that won’t make it harder for you to become wealthy.”
It’s not a zero sum game. Don’t hurt yourself out of jealousy.

#105 YVR Expat on 01.20.20 at 12:11 pm

Welcome to East Germany. You get what you voted for.

#106 kommykim on 01.20.20 at 1:25 pm

RE: #49 Nonplused on 01.19.20 at 7:55 pm
Different subject: The price of new cars and indeed car repairs has followed housing to the moon. Why? Well, again, taxes

========================================

Nope. The reason is the same as for houses. Cheap financing has lead buyers to only look at the carrying costs and not the price. If people had to pay cash or 10% interest, not many would be buying a $65,000 truck…

#107 Damifino on 01.20.20 at 1:27 pm

#100 Thedood

The higher the sale price, the higher the commission for Buyer and Seller agents. Its sad, but that’s the system you’re up against.
———————————–

In BC, commission is 7% on the first 100K and typically 2.5% on the remainder. Thus total commission on a $700K condo is…

$7000 + (0.025 * 600,000) = $22,000

…which is split between seller and buyer agents.

If the seller’s agent holds out for, say, another $40K that means another $500 for him while $11,000 sits on the table. Big deal. Better to complete sooner, tell the seller the best deal was achieved, then get on to the next sale.

#108 EB on 01.20.20 at 1:46 pm

#1 TurnerNation on 01.19.20 at 2:22 pm –

Been actively investigating going expat after I retire. You can have a house and land and an actual lifestyle for a lot cheaper elsewhere. The Komissars have defined progress as everyone living in a shipping container and eating bugs, so for myself, I’m out. It’s easy for the Boomers to pontificate from their nice places, but I weep for their grandkids. Someone has to.

#109 Tanya on 01.20.20 at 1:49 pm

Myself, my dog and our two rabbits live together (in an admittedly large) one-bedroom rented apartment.

I do get the desire for ownership if you’re a dog owner, though. It can be hard to find a cooperative landlord, especially in this tight market.

That said, we don’t need more space. And the lack of a backyard forces me to actually walk/hike with my dog and get off my butt.

#110 NoName on 01.20.20 at 2:00 pm

#107 Damifino on 01.20.20 at 1:27 pm
#100 Thedood

The higher the sale price, the higher the commission for Buyer and Seller agents. Its sad, but that’s the system you’re up against.
———————————–

In BC, commission is 7% on the first 100K and typically 2.5% on the remainder. Thus total commission on a $700K condo is…

$7000 + (0.025 * 600,000) = $22,000

…which is split between seller and buyer agents.

If the seller’s agent holds out for, say, another $40K that means another $500 for him while $11,000 sits on the table. Big deal. Better to complete sooner, tell the seller the best deal was achieved, then get on to the next sale.

didn’t “they” do that study that re agent an average keeps his own property/s 10 days longer vs clients. In freakonomics somewhere in sumo wresling section. No, not in sumo chapter is in chapter 2.

Chapter 1: Discovering cheating as applied to teachers and sumo wrestlers, as well as a typical Washington, D.C.–area bagel business and its customers
Chapter 2: Information control as applied to the Ku Klux Klan and real-estate agents
Chapter 3: The economics of drug dealing, including the surprisingly low earnings and abject working conditions of crack cocaine dealers
Chapter 4: The role legalized abortion has played in reducing crime, contrasted with the policies and downfall of Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceauşescu (Levitt explored this topic in an earlier paper entitled “The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime,” written with John Donohue.)
Chapter 5: The negligible effects of good parenting on education
Chapter 6: The socioeconomic patterns of naming children (nominative determinism)

Only thing that freakbook was wrong is that declared causation/corelation to decline in crime was easy acess pregnancy termination. But i watched dude (criminologist) that dispute that termination part and shows direct link in decrease in violent crime started when lead was removed from gasoline.

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/

And on a side note both of mine children names could be found poor/uneducated parens column…

and bonus song for blue monday.
Jon Pardi – Paycheck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiUUcjCY-Wo&list=RDQiUUcjCY-Wo&start_radio=1

#111 BillyBob on 01.20.20 at 2:08 pm

Just bought a condo in Prague. 90 minute flight from London. Beautiful 2 bed in a practically new building (1920’s lol). Built of stone and brick, structures are made for multiple generations there, not out of cheap timber and pressed wood. All electrical and plumbing upgraded 2 years ago to EU standard.

No mortgage. Maintenance fees: about $104 CAD/month. All-in running costs (utilities, etc) about $345 CAD/month. (“About” due to use of exchange rates from CZK)

This, in a city that either matches or completely blows any in Canada away (culturally, aesthetically, historically, etc). In a country that invented things like Pilsener (originated in the town of Pilsen) and Budweiser (town of České Budějovice): the real one, not the cheap US garbage manufactured by Anheuser-Busch. A country of only 10 million, yet has its own automotive, weapons, aircraft manufacturing industries among others.

With a seven-figure B&D portfolio – all earned by being willing to move, live and work in more lucrative and tax-friendly places – I could retire today. I don’t, because I’m too young, I’d get bored and I actually enjoy flying airplanes. But do you know how nice it is not to HAVE to work?

I mention this because someone asked for less complaining, more proposed solutions.

So how about considering something in a part of the world the other 99.5 % of the world’s population lives: ie, outside Canuckistan? Take a chance, widen your horizons. Scary for most, I know. But who knows. You could end up with an instant raise, better weather, and who knows: maybe even a gorgeous life partner as a bonus! ;-)

Past performance is not indicative of future results, as they say. No guarantees in life. But to confine one’s thinking to only one’s home borders with the opportunities available in 2020 is just tragic. To further limit oneself to the (to me) horrendous GTA, well, that’s just beyond pitiable. Like bringing a sandwich to a smorgasbord.

#112 Fortune500 on 01.20.20 at 2:34 pm

#101 Linda Thank you for your consideration. Just to clarify, our family has enough saved to buy multiples of both options I put forth. I was actually trying to highlight the lack of housing listed in the $300,000 to $600,000 range in our particular area.

The same thing is true in bigger centers but with obviously larger numbers. There is a dearth of houses on offer in the more reasonable range due to the building of McMansion style homes.

And I agree, getting something like century home with good bones and keeping the remainder of our portfolio liquid is likely what we will ultimately do. But that does not change the point I was trying to make.

#113 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.20.20 at 2:44 pm

@#111 BillyBob
Wow! Prague. Nice.
I read that the Czech Republic has more castles than any other country in Europe.
The Allies and the Germanys didnt bomb the crap out of them….

Enjoy the cheap beer and good food.

#114 IHCTD9 on 01.20.20 at 2:49 pm

#60 Fortune500 on 01.19.20 at 10:28 pm
…but in our area 3 bedroom 2 bathrooms with 1 acre (we live in a rural location in Ontario) go from $180-250,000 for very rough century farm houses or 80s homes that have never been updated…

#101 Linda on 01.20.20 at 11:37 am
#60 ‘fortune’ – I think you may have confirmed the belief that Millennial wants trump common sense. What is wrong with a ‘very rough century farm house’ or ’80’s house that has never been updated’…
______

An old un-renovated 1870 Farm House is exactly what we bought, and still live in. Ours needed a **TON** of work. Fortune500, you should be dancing for joy that you can get one of these babies for only 180K in 2019 at 3.0%. We paid 123K back in ’01 and 6.4%. Your payment today would be only 852.00/mo for that – we were paying over 1000.00 /mo (CMHC, taxes, etc in) 19 years ago! Probably be near the same payment for you guys all in today.

This is one way a couple can get ahead, do your own work, you don’t need a PHD. Every dollar you save by doing it yourself goes in your pocket, is tax free, regulation free (if you want), and you don’t pay a penny in mortgage interest on it as it never was part of the purchase price of the home.

Get on the net and look at the creative ways folks have transformed old homes, school houses, and churches into cool places to live. Never too late to learn.

Linda is right on the quality also. Look at Garth’s East Coast Granite Castle – if you wanted to build a place like that today, it would cost you 100 Million lol! It’ll still be standing there 100’s of years from now, and beyond.

The old Farm Houses were built without engineering services or building codes, so if the builders were in doubt – the old timers just made it bigger and stronger. My place has a field stone/lime mortar foundation and the walls are near 36″ thick. The whole house is built with hand hewn Timbers, 8-10″ sections, and mostly hardwood. 1.5″ thick planks on the floor, all the dimensional lumber measures on size (ie a 2×4 measures 2″x 4″ instead of 1.5″ x 3.5″). Plaster lath walls that would probably stop a .22 shell point blank. There is not a stick of wood in this place under 1″ thick – even the original soffit is a 1″ x 14″ solid bloody pc of wood!

I got 4 acres with it too, which may be sold off in two lots in the future. Lot’s of upside if you want to do some work – just get ready to figure out how to get a pile of heating BTU’s in there for cheap :D

#115 Where's My Money Gone Greedeaus? on 01.20.20 at 3:48 pm

Since Greedeau wants to bankrupt us plebs with carbon taxes, here’s some info on a climate change hoax that was perpetrated in the 1970s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_3
https://www.debunker.com/texts/alternative3.html

I wonder if UN proponent and carbon tax honcho Martin Strong had his hand in this pile of bunk.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2015/12/discovering-maurice-strong/

More info de’bunk’ing carbon taxes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMkqozFqT0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlC02NsIt0

#116 Linda on 01.20.20 at 5:10 pm

#112 ‘fortune’ – thanks for clarifying what your point was. I expect that the reason there isn’t much listed in the $300 to under $600K price range is that the current occupants have no intention of selling any time soon. Good luck with your future purchase.

#117 Fortune500 on 01.20.20 at 11:23 pm

IHCTD9, thank you for the advice. I haven’t seen anything with acreage in the price range I mentioned. I was referring to 1900’s-1920s style homes which can be well built, but at that price range, I am talking mostly in or near cities and not in an area most people want to raise a family, But I get your point.

Linda, thank you!

#118 8 reasons on 01.21.20 at 12:04 am

#74, Is that Doug Ford taking a deal of two for the price of one as an efficiency?