Naked

The creep continues.

It started with the mandatory reporting of any real estate transaction on your annual tax return – whether you made bank on it or not. Then it spread to the CRA as revenuers tracked down condo flippers, renospeckers and amateur landlords. Then they came for the basement suiters who collect cash rent. Then followed the foreign buyer taxes in BC and Ontario, and the empty-house tax, the special property taxes on high-end houses plus that crazy spec tax on second homes. Now the Trudeau gang is crafting one on non-residents who own here. And Ottawa’s started to disallow tax-free capital gains on properties people altered for rental units, while forcing developers to hand over the list of precon condo buyers.

Notice a pattern? You should.

Without a doubt the next big revenue source for desperate governments will be (and is already becoming) residential real estate.

In the election campaign the NDP (now in a powerful Parliamentary position) advocated for a wealth tax, embracing the value of real estate holdings. The Greens campaigned on a financial transactions tax which would hit the cost of mortgages, HELOCs, purchases and sales as well as home insurance. The Libs tried to deny it, but the powerful Ontario caucus endorsed a policy which would start taxing residential real estate profits on a sliding scale, based on length of ownership.

Also during the election Trudeau vowed a 1% annual tax on the value of housing owned by non-residents. This represents the first time in Canadian history the senior level of government has moved into the area residential real estate to raise revenue. Now all three major levels of government – local, provincial and federal – are gunning for money from the hides of owners.

Given what’s going down in Ottawa, this is a pale beginning.

The federal Libs said during the campaign they’ll run deficits of $28 billion now, falling to maybe $21 billion in four years. As we know, everyone lies to get elected. The budgetary shortfall will be far larger, especially if the economy takes a cyclical downturn after the 2020 US presidential election. Revenues will fall. Expenses and spending will rise. The river of red will become a torrent. Tax increases are a certainty.

But, since the tax base has narrowed so dramatically (four in ten families pay no net income tax now, and that’s about to become more extreme), the wealthy are already being hosed for up to 54% of earnings and taxes on investment or business income can’t swell much lest we lose capital to the States, guess what’s left? Right. Houses.

The argument for taxing residential real estate gains is simple. Everything else is subject to Hoovering. Why not this? Realistically, the very fact profits on principal residences are tax-free has played a huge role in creating a bubble and rendering property unaffordable to the average schmuck. It’s encouraged a massive flow of wealth out of financial vehicles and retirement savings and into houses. Especially when the government itself will provide the insurance enabling gross leverage to take place. This has resulted in a 70% home ownership rate at the same time half of families routinely report they’re close to broke at the end of each month. What else would you expect with $1.6 trillion in mortgages, increasing at $60 billion a year?

Now, this pathetic, heartless, realtor-baiting blog is not advocating your real estate gains should be sucked away by a voracious government. It’s just telling you it’ll happen. It’s inevitable, at least in part and starting before long. The likely starting point will be secondary properties, including cabins, condos, cottages, hobby farms or holiday homes in other cities. Van’s so-called ‘empty houses’ tax and BC’s spec tax will be the models. Market value property tax assessments in most major cities make a form of real estate wealth tax – on top of property tax – too tempting to pass up.

Besides, the Mills want it. They see homeowners as rich, the recipients of unearned wealth because their elders won the birth lottery. There’s no sympathy among the young for retained equity and, sadly, they now form the largest voting bloc.

If you think the political encroachment on your real estate is unjustified, intrusive and unconstitutional, too bad. In Canada there’s no enshrined right to own property. It’s not in the constitution, the bill of rights nor statues protecting civil liberties. Any level of government can tax your house, the value it represents, or take it with or without compensation.

Twenty-seven years ago I tried to change that – the last time federal politicians had the stones to diddle with the constitution of Canada. The right to own property, and therefore to mount a legal challenge when that right was abrogated, was included in a set of amendments after I lobbied furiously for it to happen. The lefties hated me for it, of course, since enshrining property rights into law makes it way harder for governments to take wealth and redistribute it.

Alas, it went down in flames as part of the Charlottetown Accord (ask you grandfather about it). And here we are. Naked owners. So get ready.

148 comments ↓

#1 Remembrancer on 11.14.19 at 4:13 pm

-Garth
Alas, it went down in flames as part of the Charlottetown Accord (ask you grandfather about it). And here we are. Naked owners. So get ready.
—————————————–
Hey what’s with the grandfather dig? 1992 wasn’t that long ago – would be a different world now had the referendum passed…

#2 SW on 11.14.19 at 4:18 pm

In French, it’s not called “immobiliare” for nothing.

#3 Yukon Elvis on 11.14.19 at 4:25 pm

Nailed another one Garth. You are on fire this month.

#4 PetertheSeparatistfromCalgary on 11.14.19 at 4:27 pm

All the “smart” growth people (Nenshi) want to bulldoze down my house and build condos. Well it ain’t going to happen because I don’t want to report the sale of my property to the CRA. They will have to wait tell I kick the bucket, they axe the reporting requirement, or offer me truck loads of money to put a stack em and pack em condo on my lot.

This is how old geezers protest stuff because we can’t outrun teargas canisters!

#5 Sovavia on 11.14.19 at 4:28 pm

(1) The real estate situation is what will bring down this minority government; bear patiently the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

(2) Progressive wealth taxes will also be introduced into Canada, if President Warren is elected in the States and if both houses of Congress switch to the Democrats.

(3) Lefties do not hate you, Mr. Turner; they admire your courage.

#6 The Wet One on 11.14.19 at 4:28 pm

Well actually, the Canadian Bill of Rights does have this provision:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-12.3/FullText.html

“Recognition and declaration of rights and freedoms

1 It is hereby recognized and declared that in Canada there have existed and shall continue to exist without discrimination by reason of race, national origin, colour, religion or sex, the following human rights and fundamental freedoms, namely,

(a) the right of the individual to life, liberty, security of the person and enjoyment of property, and the right not to be deprived thereof except by due process of law;”

Not sure what 1(a) means with respect to taxes and the “enjoyment of property,” but it is there.

An express right to own, though, no I guess not.

In any event, a right to own property does nothing to prevent taxation of said property. The U.S. has express property rights and they still have property taxes and expropriation (including expropriation for purely private commercial purposes if you can grok that one).

So I don’t see how property rights would prevent taxation. They don’t anywhere else that I’m aware of, so I don’t see why they would here. Governments are empowered to tax and always have been. Leviathan must be fed.

#7 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.14.19 at 4:31 pm

I love it.

Millie’s have voted in a govt that will tax their Boomer parents……which means the Millie’s will get less.
Its so unfair!

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

#8 Stan Brooks on 11.14.19 at 4:33 pm

Yes, rich people should pay taxes and share their spoils with the unfortunate.

Condo speculation tax, much higher property taxes, capital gain taxes on primary property… carbon tax on poorly insulated residences, it is all coming.

Put your money where your big mouth is and pay up, rich homeowners.

#9 FreeBird on 11.14.19 at 4:33 pm

Who owns Canadian land? Not us.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.rt.com/business/469170-canada-land-owner-queen/amp/

How ownership has changed.
https://www.hansenlandco.com/land-ownership-changed-canada-years/

A developer in our city owned land the city wanted. Developer offered to sell it back at fair market value. City said we’re just going to expropriate it (take back). Went to court. City lost and cost developer large court fees. Smaller home/property owner aren’t safe from this. If you’re house isn’t paid off (yet) and land can be reclaimed by govt is ownership an illusion? Taxes aren’t.

https://www.lawnow.org/expropriating-land/

#10 Don Guillermo on 11.14.19 at 4:34 pm

Wow, how sad. The lefty voters in the GTA, LM and Victoria will wonder what the hell’s hit them!

#11 Shawn Allen on 11.14.19 at 4:36 pm

Alberta pays more?

#93 Wait There on 11.14.19 at 2:36 pm
If I understand the stats that have been prodded around.

Alberta has the highest income per capita
https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/provincial/economy/income-per-capita.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

OK, the top 20% of earners pays what 70% of the cost of running the country.

OK

That means that Alberta likely contributes a disproportionate share of the revenues required to run the country.

********************************
Well, you mean certain individuals with high incomes in Alberta pay a disproportionate share. Just exactly like they would with the same income in Newfoundland. Where is the unfairness?

“Alberta” as in the government of Alberta pays zero dollars to the federal government.

Do you think the rich and poor in Alberta are all living in a collective commune?

We have people in Alberta who make nothing and pay no income tax thinking they somehow pay equalization to Quebec. Math challenged I guess.

#12 Calgary Cowboy on 11.14.19 at 4:40 pm

Garth, Canada needs you to return to politics.

God help us. – Garth

#13 Shawn Allen on 11.14.19 at 4:45 pm

Why are tax increases needed?

Not sure, but I do know there is little truth to the rumor (that I may start just for fun) that tax increases are needed to make up for the loss of taxes on investments associated with all that TFSA wealth.

A drop in the bucket. Far more significant a tax expenditure are your beloved RRSPs. – Garth

#14 Re-Cowtown on 11.14.19 at 4:47 pm

If they want to treat peoples homes like a money making businesses, then, fine. make 100% of interest payments, heat, power, taxes and maintenance deductible. And allow people to writeoff leasehold (renos) improvements.

Trudeau wants it to be a business? Fine… then treat it like one.

#15 Stan Brooks on 11.14.19 at 4:48 pm

Right to own property/land in a low paid labour camp/sweatshop with astronomical cost of living and stingy, stupid oligopoly owners, run by insanely corrupt, ethically challenged and incompetent lefties?

You know what I was told when departing? Don’t come here, there is too many of us on the beach.

I am hearing it is gorgeous weather there at the moment.

Enjoy and cheers,

#16 Shawn Allen on 11.14.19 at 4:48 pm

Tax

I mean, one man’s tax break is another man’s tax increase. That is simple math. So every tax break we clamor for has its consequences, TFSA included. Simple math.

#17 AGuyInVancouver on 11.14.19 at 4:55 pm

“…The argument for taxing residential real estate gains is simple. Everything else is subject to Hoovering. Why not this? Realistically, the very fact profits on principal residences are tax-free has played a huge role in creating a bubble and rendering property unaffordable to the average schmuck. It’s encouraged a massive flow of wealth out of financial vehicles and retirement savings and into houses..”
– – –
This sounds like a Win, Win, Win then.

#18 SmarterSquirrel on 11.14.19 at 4:59 pm

When I was a kid I used to think this was just a silly song The Beatles wrote, now I realize it was their protest song as their government no doubt took plenty of their earnings…

These days in Canada it seems more and more relevant.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zaebtU-CA

#19 PastThePeak on 11.14.19 at 5:05 pm

They can (and will) create and increase all manner of taxes. Real estate, increase cap gains inclusion rate, reduce dividend tax credits, wealth taxes, increase corp taxes.

But the sad part? The deficits will continue to grow. Demographics say so. Our poor productivity says so. The window to address the looming budget disaster is just about closed. Harper had started to deal with the coming OAS bomb (raising the age to 67 over time) – and it was the first thing Trudumb got rid of. And now he has promised to make it even worse.

Concrete action within the next 5 years could maybe fix things, but that won’t be happening.

She’s toast.

#20 Camille on 11.14.19 at 5:07 pm

That is very interesting. I would not have thought that’s where they would go, but it’s really only a little stretch, given only your primary residence capital gains are not taxed. Cottages too? Not much sympathy from me. You need a really long term view with RE. And it’s a lot of work, like everything else.
How about those bonds. Why don’t you hold only long bonds, but less, you can have higher income and still have cash to buy stocks when they’re down? Same protection.

#21 akashic record on 11.14.19 at 5:13 pm

People don’t have the appetite to protest this, until governments go after other people’s money (condo flippers, renospeckers, amateur landlords, basement suiters who collect cash rent, empty homes, etc.).

You even read here often schadenfreude happiness about it.

What those people don’t realize is that they are in the line as well.

After taxing real estate in all shapes and form, investment return tax-hike is the next. Mark my words.

#22 TS on 11.14.19 at 5:14 pm

The best part of all of this is they will come with their Hoover ready just in time for the real estate bubble to burst. Any policy that taxes gains should also allow for credits for losses.

#23 CandianOne on 11.14.19 at 5:31 pm

I am sure everyone read this one today on Bloomberg:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-14/severe-15-8-trillion-pension-crisis-looms-worldwide-g-30-says

Link to the actual work:
https://group30.org/images/uploads/publications/G30_Pensions.pdf

Some kinks coming to your Pensions as well. Only things certain in life are Breathing and Taxes!!! ™ ;) And of-course death!

M42AB

#24 Ardy on 11.14.19 at 5:31 pm

Garth, just trying to pin down which merit of both sides of the OWNERSHIP rights argument you support. On one hand you scold people for craving houses as it is not a right, while on the other you disclosed today that you lobbied for constitutional changes for ownership rights.

I know there is wisdom in there somewhere… do share.

-RD

There is no correlation. – Garth

#25 the ryguy on 11.14.19 at 5:41 pm

Trudeau wants it to be a business? Fine… then treat it like one.
————————————————————————–

You silly racist, sexist, xenophobe. Up in Canada budgets balance themselves..just pay your taxes so I can afford my fuscia hair dye, you cis-white male piece of garbage.

#26 Lee on 11.14.19 at 5:43 pm

I don’t believe that the government can take your property without compensation, unless you bought it with the proceeds of crime. In theory it has to pay you fair market value if it takes it. There is of course technically no limit to how much it can tax you on you rproperty, well, at least in theory.

#27 crossbordershopper on 11.14.19 at 5:47 pm

DELETED

#28 Blackdog on 11.14.19 at 5:51 pm

@Blacksheep, my reply to your comment directed towards me a couple blog entries ago.

https://theconversation.com/the-thinking-error-at-the-root-of-science-denial-96099?fbclid=IwAR2wTYN-uGZ-M9z-Hz_s8gPDznwnyJ62_P6rfMEKo2c_UJFZuCdqJqDyVY8

#29 Graphics Girl on 11.14.19 at 5:52 pm

But if 70% of people own property and are counting on the tax-free gains as part of their retirement, I can’t see how this would be passed. Plus, the government would only have to pony up more money to supplement what they took away.

Maybe it’s time to move to the U.S.?

#30 the Jaguar on 11.14.19 at 5:55 pm

It started with the mandatory reporting of any real estate transaction on your annual tax return – whether you made bank on it or not. Then it spread to the CRA as revenuers tracked down condo flippers, renospeckers and amateur landlords. Then they came for the basement suiters who collect cash rent. Then followed the foreign buyer taxes in BC and Ontario, and the empty-house tax, the special property taxes on high-end houses plus that crazy spec tax on second homes. Now the Trudeau gang is crafting one on non-residents who own here. And Ottawa’s started to disallow tax-free capital gains on properties people altered for rental units, while forcing developers to hand over the list of precon condo buyers.

Garth, do we have any statistics on the success of these initiatives by the CRA i.e. how much revenue collected or will be collected, how much non or under reporting exists or general tax evasion, etc. I am trying to understand why I might care or be sympathetic given the amount of laundered money in the system, tax evasion of those who think they don’t have to report rental income and pay their fair share, laws broken in this country or others, and in general the attitude of those who feel tax evasion is on par with tax avoidance. One legal, the other not.
Much of which has resulted in the current real estate malaise.
I hear the chant of “Lock’em up” as I read your comments.

#31 yorkville renter on 11.14.19 at 5:55 pm

If Millenials are a larger cohort than Boomers, and we have a 70% ownership rate, how’s it possible that Mills aren’t home owners too?

Prices were really high in the early 90s RE crash… and then they weren’t.

I feel like this is manufactured outrage… anyone else?

#32 Rvanzo on 11.14.19 at 5:56 pm

(1) The real estate situation is what will bring down this minority government; bear patiently the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

(2) Progressive wealth taxes will also be introduced into Canada, if President Warren is elected in the States and if both houses of Congress switch to the Democrats.

(3) Lefties do not hate you, Mr. Turner; they admire your courage.

__________________________________

In order to levy a tax on wealth on the US you need to amend the constitution. As of right now the wealth tax is not allowed.

So they need to not only take the Senate and the House, but have 2/3 majorities on each and then get the states on board too. it is not going to happen. Plus, Biden will win the nomination.

#33 Shawn Allen on 11.14.19 at 6:03 pm

Ownership Rights

#24 Ardy on 11.14.19 at 5:31 pm
Garth, just trying to pin down which merit of both sides of the OWNERSHIP rights argument you support.

On one hand you scold people for craving houses as it is not a right, while on the other you disclosed today that you lobbied for constitutional changes for ownership rights.

************************
There is a difference between the right to keep owning property you have bought (free from unreasonable seizure etc.) and the nonsense of a right to be able to own property you can’t afford on the open market. No contradiction.

#34 Rargary on 11.14.19 at 6:05 pm

#12 Calgary Cowboy on 11.14.19 at 4:40 pm

Garth, Canada needs you to return to politics.

God help us. – Garth
_____________________________…
I VOTE FOR GARTH! Fed politics is pooched for years to come so…

Kenney just cut $100s from disability cheques here in oil land. I “BLEEPIN’ KNEW HE WOULD TAKE FROM THE MORE VULNERABLE! AND HE CUT THERAPIST SERVICES FROM EVEN SEVERELY DISABLED 3 YEAR OLDS WHO ARE UNABLE TO SPEAK (MUTE/DUMB)

And Kenney mismanaged funds AGAIN on an excessive $16k+ trip for one of his buddies!

Is there anyway Garth, you can run for the land of oil Premier from your humble abode in NS?

#35 not 1st on 11.14.19 at 6:08 pm

Garth needs to brush up on his history. The dominion lands act is still in effect. It predates everything, treaties, constitution.

A farmer and his decedents can sit on their home quarter section in perpetuity and nobody (bank or govt) can touch that piece of land no matter how deep you are in.

I think I will start designing my compound right now.

#36 BlogDog123 on 11.14.19 at 6:12 pm

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don’t take it all
‘Cause I’m the taxman, yeah, I’m the taxman
If you drive a car, I’ll tax the street
If you try to sit, I’ll tax your seat
If you get too cold, I’ll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I’ll tax your feet

Now my advice for those who die (taxman!)
Declare the pennies on your eyes (taxman!)

Songwriters: George Harrison (Sony ATV Music Publisher…)

#37 kommykim on 11.14.19 at 6:25 pm

RE:#10 Don Guillermo on 11.14.19 at 4:34 pm
Wow, how sad. The lefty voters in the GTA, LM and Victoria will wonder what the hell’s hit them!

=====================================

Why? Because right-wingers are too poor to own property?

#38 yvr_lurker on 11.14.19 at 6:31 pm

This type of fear-mongering post gets re-generated every few weeks by our host to rally the “troops” against new ordinances that will not come to be. In my view, it is not dissimilar to the extreme views held by people on a range of topics; alberta oil, climate change, etc. Everyone just chill; the NDP is not going to convince the Liberals to change capital gains tax or generate new residence taxes. I am in support though of an outright ban on non-permanent residents of owning any residential real estate in Canada, and for the taxes that the BC NDP set forth. This is all that is needed.

#39 Two Fat Cats on 11.14.19 at 6:31 pm

Next spring, the budget speech will be something like this:

‘We will be asking those who have more, to pay a bit more. Accordingly, all principal residence sales will pay a small tax of 5% on sale prices in excess of $2 million.’

#40 Penny Henny on 11.14.19 at 6:33 pm

#96 NoName on 11.14.19 at 3:47 pm
Niagara falls in danger over climate change in 12 yrs, it will be only rapid, but most likely dray lake bed.

https://www.ijc.org/sites/default/files/current-view-crest-niagara-falls.jpg
///////////////////

Believe it or not NoName but when I visited the falls last, the edge of the falls was easily 3 metres difference for my visits as a youth

#41 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 6:36 pm

Vancouver will just take your property for $1:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2019/11/6/1_4673254.html&ved=2ahUKEwjxgdf37urlAhUFCjQIHf1FCoYQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw01-bG2o9sMAI3cAhZJ3E4m&ampcf=1

#42 TurnerNation on 11.14.19 at 6:39 pm

Ahead by a century:

Ohoh the Climate handlers used by crowdedelvator and others really screwed up.

In a major T.O. mag they outright stated Bananas are set for extinction, a blight you see, all due to Climate Change:
https://torontolife.com/food/the-future-of-food/.

Less than a month later this Canadian company puts out a news release. Guess what the blight’s been here for 100 years and guess also what they have a sustainable scientific solution:

“According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (“FAO”) Fusarium wilt disease has been a major constraint to banana production for more than a century”

“MustGrow’s previous independent efficacy studies involving the treatment of Fusarium oxysporum (“Fusarium”), a soil-borne pathogen potentially similar to Fusarium wilt TR4, have demonstrated 100% control of the fungus”
Read more at https://stockhouse.com/news/press-releases/2019/11/12/mustgrow-to-commence-work-on-disease-threatening-global-banana-supply-fusarium#vrgTGyW5lHmgQfh4.99

….
As we know this CC movement is not over science, pollution or even the envinronment. WW3 began years ago, its battle is in your mind.

#43 Re-Cowtown on 11.14.19 at 6:40 pm

I’m always amazed that BC’ers are OK with accepting the risk of daily tanker loads of oil from Alaska passing a stones throw from the Legislature and getting nothing in return but sky high gasoline prices. They get all the risk, no control and none of the reward.

But when the rest of Canada says, “Hey, we can drop your environmental risk by having safer, better shipping standards, make the Americans send their oil elsewhere, and on top of that build schools, hospitals, feed the starving, shelter the homeless and build roads”

We’re told we’re greedy, ignornant and stupid. Go figure.

#44 Andrew MacNeil on 11.14.19 at 6:41 pm

Beg to differ on….taking property without compensation. There expropriation laws preventing that. Of course they could do an assessment valuing the property at 1 dollar. But that will..ummm…never happen right?

#45 SoggyShorts on 11.14.19 at 6:46 pm

I suppose that any effort spent taxing people’s homes is effort that they can’t spend taxing my small business or Investments?

Bleh. Maybe try spending less ffs.

#46 Don Guillermo on 11.14.19 at 6:50 pm

#37 kommykim on 11.14.19 at 6:25 pm
RE:#10 Don Guillermo on 11.14.19 at 4:34 pm
Wow, how sad. The lefty voters in the GTA, LM and Victoria will wonder what the hell’s hit them!
=====================================
Why? Because right-wingers are too poor to own property?

****************************************

… how about too smart to waste money in those markets.

#47 Rico on 11.14.19 at 6:56 pm

All the things you list are examples where the government made steps to catch tax evaders related to real estate.
You took the leap that they would change the tax laws beyond this.
It is not an obvious leap. Maybe they’ll go after other tax evaders (see panama papers).

#48 The Real Mark on 11.14.19 at 7:14 pm

What ever tax government puts on homes is AOK with me.

#49 Sail away on 11.14.19 at 7:22 pm

#96 NoName on 11.14.19 at 3:47 pm

Niagara falls in danger over climate change in 12 yrs, it will be only rapid, but most likely dray lake bed.

https://www.ijc.org/sites/default/files/current-view-crest-niagara-falls.jpg

—————————————

Climate change? I assume you’re joking…

Erosion yes, climate change no. Niagara will always be falls for the foreseeable future.

#50 45north on 11.14.19 at 7:26 pm

The federal Libs said during the campaign they’ll run deficits of $28 billion now, falling to maybe $21 billion in four years. As we know, everyone lies to get elected. The budgetary shortfall will be far larger, especially if the economy takes a cyclical downturn after the 2020 US presidential election. Revenues will fall. Expenses and spending will rise. The river of red will become a torrent. Tax increases are a certainty.

scary – coming from someone who used to be Minister of Revenue. Someone who was briefed on deficits, budgetary shortfalls, revenues, expenses and spending.

The likely starting point will be secondary properties, including cabins, condos, cottages, hobby farms or holiday homes in other cities.

I’m thinking of Sundridge where my grandfather farmed the south end of Lake Bernard. An extra tax is going to pull down the value of the whole area. All it takes is one less owner – he doesn’t come up for the summer and doesn’t go into town. Isn’t this what the mayors of Kelowna and other BC towns are saying? The Conservatives need to go and talk to them. The Conservatives are the opposition – they can ask questions in Parliament, like “what’s the cost of implementing the new tax?” “what programs are to be put in place – what departments? what new sections? what are the spending estimates? what about the projected revenue? and the follow up – what departments were involved?, what were the actual costs? And what were the actual revenues? All of this is public information.

Oh, and the burden on the property owner – what extra forms does he have to fill out? What are the penalties? What about municipal and provincial reporting – what do they have to do? What is the cost? Projected and actual.

Also, follow up on employment in the towns? the number of real estate sales? sales mix? Property values? What about the general state of properties – are they well maintained? What about delinquencies on property taxes? What about provincial sales taxes?

A detailed accounting is going to rip the Liberals to shreds. In the last session of Parliament, the Liberals had proposed new taxes on small businesses and then walked them back. But not this time.

#51 Leftover on 11.14.19 at 7:28 pm

We should tax real estate as they do in the USA, tax the capital gain but allow interest on the first $500k of mortgage debt to be deductible.
That would help young people, reduce tax evasion, and refocus investing away from housing which is a terrible allocation of capital

#52 Blacksheep on 11.14.19 at 7:31 pm

Blackdog # 28,

Since you are one of the more vocal commenters, criticizing others on this subject, I asked that you:

“Please counter NASA’s actual statement (copy & pasted below) from their Government website, explaining why these climate models, are simply not reliable enough to give accurate predictions” ?

Please read NASA’s statement through a few times (slowly?) to let exactly what they are saying, sink in, before you comment with another, completely irrelevant response.

https://isccp.giss.nasa.gov/role.html
——————————–
“Because there are so many possibilities for change, climatologists must know how clouds over the entire Earth will respond. Determining that response calls for computer models of the global climate that can explore changing conditions. Climate models are sets of mathematical equations that describe the properties of Earth’s atmosphere at discrete places and times, along with the ways such properties can change. The challenge for climate models is to account for the most important physical processes, including cloud microphysics and cloud dynamics, and their complex interactions accurately enough to carry climatic predictions tens of years into the future. When contemporary models are given information about Earth’s present condition — the size, shape and topography of the continents; the composition of the atmosphere; the amount of sunlight striking the globe — they create artificial climates that mathematically resemble the real one: their temperatures and winds are accurate to within about 5%, but their clouds and rainfall are only accurate to within about 25-35%. Such models can also accurately forecast the temperatures and winds of the weather many days ahead when given information about current conditions.”

“Unfortunately, such a margin of error is much too large for making a reliable forecast about climate changes, such as the global warming will result from increasing abundances of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. A doubling in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), predicted to take place in the next 50 to 100 years, is expected to change the radiation balance at the surface by only about 2 percent. Yet according to current climate models, such a small change could raise global mean surface temperatures by between 2-5°C (4-9°F), with potentially dramatic consequences. If a 2 percent change is that important, then a climate model to be useful must be accurate to something like 0.25%.”

“Thus today’s models must be improved by about a hundredfold in accuracy, a very challenging task.”
—————————-

#53 leebow on 11.14.19 at 7:40 pm

What, you don’t like a small tax? Wait until you have to do community service and furnish your spare room for Ronald ‘Brady’ WATKINS.

All lean people will be force fed bacon to benefit the fat. Good bye chiselled abs.

#54 Debtslavecreator on 11.14.19 at 7:43 pm

Quite possibly your most prophetic and important post ever Garth
It’s an outrage that they will come after our RE
It’s wrong
Word has it these out of control Bolsheviks are planning to increase the capital gains inclusion rate up to 75% and applying a lifetime capital gain exemption of maybe 500 k on a residence
Either of these stupid radical policies will trigger a nasty RE correction and possibly a deep recession.
But god forbid they pass both
It’s not looking good
What we will have left after RE taxes will be devalued loonies to buy 7-800/ week worth of basic groceries

Those who voted for these crazy lefties will get what they deserve

Always do

Dumb socialists

The goal of socialism is communism

Agenda 2030 is the plan to turn the west into a model based on China – totalitarianism with kleptocrats running the show and NO real property ownership
The state eventually confiscated ALL priority via outright laws , taxation and most importantly- currency debasement

#55 Tax Tax Tax on 11.14.19 at 7:52 pm

The tax on vaping products will jump by 13% with the new dipper rules announced today.

#56 Long-Time Lurker on 11.14.19 at 7:54 pm

#71 Enlightened on 11.14.19 at 9:58 am
I have been pondering the benefit of using my fee based advisor…

…Any input would be appreciated ..continue or not continue.

>Who’s gonna hold your hand when things go bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBplbfXgSY

#57 Randy on 11.14.19 at 7:54 pm

Great News….I’m including many of you in my will…You can have my share of the massive debts that our Marxist Federal and Provincial governments are rolling up today, tomorrow and yesterday. No need to thank me. You can have my shades too but the future might not be that bright.

#58 Lost...but not leased on 11.14.19 at 8:05 pm

Garth:

Thanks for the laundry list and the update re: Gov’t current and potential tax rape regarding RE.

What is truly mindboggling is the revenue stream Gov’ts at all levels already rape property owners for. Start with the initial construction.. the GST ad PST on labour and materials, as well as income tax on trades. Then the property taxes…then all the taxes on the utilities…tax tax tax tax…

On Van RE Flip Flops..someone posted COV has Community Amenity Charges (CAC)of over $100 sq.ft.
If true…then 1000 sq ft condo pays $100,000 into COV coffers..and likely a mortgage to pay that CAC as well.

The implication is Homeowners are getting a free ride?

Really?

#59 Gregor Samsa on 11.14.19 at 8:06 pm

Excellent blog tonight by Garth. To highlight something he briefly mentioned, the Feds are not the only hungry dog prowling the streets for taxpayers. There are quite mangy looking provinces and municipalities prowling out there too, also cash-strapped, also looking for a bigger piece of the pie.

When all three levels of governments are cash strapped (which is soon going to be a reality in most parts of the country), bad things to start happen. We are seeing some of this in Alberta right now. Federal budget cuts get downloaded on the provinces, who are strapped, so they download to the municipalities, who are strapped, but can’t go into debt so… crunch time. Where’s the money going to come from?

In short, Canada is about to be severely cash strapped at all levels of government, all which have billions in payrolls, billions in pension liabilities, and billions in commitments. And anyone in this country who dares utter the dreaded “c word” (cut) is branded as evil.

#60 Linda on 11.14.19 at 8:12 pm

There are days when I wonder if the government plan is to reduce the entire population to economic serfdom. The day may come when anyone with assets will be actively looking to sell up & flee to climes less financially punitive. Only problem is that selling might not be possible – who would want to paint the target on their back by purchasing, thus informing the rapacious tax collectors that they have a live one?

#61 Blackdog on 11.14.19 at 8:13 pm

@Blacksheep, Making meatballs right now, but I will get back to you. This will be easy! In the meantime, please read the article I linked to in my response to your original comment to me. There will be a quiz afterwards. Read slowly and carefully.

#62 Lost...but not leased on 11.14.19 at 8:18 pm

#41 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 6:36 pm
Vancouver will just take your property for $1
==========================

QUOTE:

VANCOUVER — City council has voted to seize control of two derelict hotels in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside after a lawyer for the property owners warned the municipality it is exposing itself to the risk of litigation by expropriating them for $1 each.

Mayor Kennedy Stewart described council’s unanimous decision on Wednesday to take over the Balmoral and Regent hotels as a “historic vote.”

The expropriation “is a clear message that we are not afraid to use every tool at our disposal to create new affordable homes,” he said in a statement.

QUOTE:

A teary-eyed Coun. Jean Swanson, who has spent years advocating for the people of Downtown Eastside, made the motion to vote for expropriation, calling it a “moral decision.”

Coun. Adriane Carr told her colleagues: “There are no two better examples of urban blight than these two buildings.”

Lawyer Evan Cooke said his clients had received at least 10 offers for the properties, with one in the range of $20 million if the city withdrew its expropriation notice.

The city filed a notice of expropriation for the buildings about 15 months ago after it wasn’t able to negotiate their purchase.

Cooke asked the city to abandon the expropriation and negotiate with the owners on the basis of actual evidence on the market value for the two hotels.

“The owners have communicated over and over again for more than six months that they are willing to convey title of these properties to the City of Vancouver,” Cooke said.

“They have only asked that they be treated fairly in the process and paid market value.”

=========

Hmm…not sure what COV is doing…are they testing the waters to see if they can set a precedent ?

One to watch…..

#63 NoName on 11.14.19 at 8:18 pm

#28 Blackdog on 11.14.19 at 5:51 pm
@Blacksheep, my reply to your comment directed towards me a couple blog entries ago.

https://theconversation.com/the-thinking-error-at-the-root-of-science-denial-96099?fbclid=IwAR2wTYN-uGZ-M9z-Hz_s8gPDznwnyJ62_P6rfMEKo2c_UJFZuCdqJqDyVY8

It was ok until trupm was mention, but what was realy funny is how dude always “say denial of science”. Anti waxers cult came to unwashed from celebraties, while clime change lets call them deniers question science behind models, theories and proposed solution, because some other scientists pointed out in climate science flaws. Just imagine how society would look now if Copernicus dident rebel for a bit. We would steel be walking on flath earth that is stationary and sun would be spining circles around us. Many would probably be making good coin prosecuting heretiks and burning witches…

I think that you’ll like this interesting read about indoctrination.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/katyasoldak/2017/12/20/this-is-how-propaganda-works-a-look-inside-a-soviet-childhood/#4aa637573566

#64 Bezengy on 11.14.19 at 8:26 pm

Foreigner’s tax? I think the real issue is when a foreigner buys a house and the CRA asks the owner how he/she obtained the money, they’re told to rub salt, as in it’s none of your business. When a Canadian owns the house it becomes a lot simpler to investigate the individual to see if they have the legitimate income to pay for it, and if not, just confiscate the damned thing.

#65 Nonplused on 11.14.19 at 8:29 pm

The problem with this, or any other tax changes, is that there just isn’t any more money out there to tax. People are already living hand to mouth.

I’ve tried to explain this many times. It doesn’t matter where the tax is applied we all pay the same effective rate. The taxes are embedded in prices (except for the HST, at least you get to see that, which was the point of it).

There is only so much economic activity out there. It is finite. Therefore the amount of money the government can collect in taxes is also finite. Every dollar they take from you is one less dollar you can spend at Costco. Since they already tax Costco and all of its employees, all that happens is that you will be able to purchase less stuff at Costco and someone will get laid off.

Let’s look at this proposal to tax primary residences if you haven’t lived there long enough. What difference does it make if I have only lived there 2 years but now I have to flee Calgary because the economy is absolutely collapsing and the imperialists in Ontario and Quebec are forcibly saddling our citizens with debt we cannot pay? I’m going to have to buy another house, maybe in Idaho or New Brunswick. So how am I ahead? A house is a house.

Or what if I die and leave my house to my children? What will they do with it? They will sell it and split the proceeds and then proceed to buy new cars, maybe houses, maybe go on vacation. All of this is already taxed. What the government is trying to say is “no new car for you”. Well, that kills a lot of economic activity and other tax points, so the government is not ahead. They might actually be behind as GM lays off another round of workers.

You have to be an extremely lazy and intellectually challenged farmer to think that you should eat your seed stock. And that is what wealth taxes are. Eating the seeds.

I’m going to except the usual property taxes levied my municipalities because in theory these pay for roads, services, and schools. A model could be envisioned where people pay for these directly but the current system is probably simpler. And it is the height of socialism. A person with a $200,000 mobile home has the same education opportunities for their child as a person with a $1,000,000 house. And the same roads, should they have a car and the same transit if they don’t.

They say the first rule of economics is that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and the first rule of politics is to ignore the first rule of economics. Nothing truer has ever been said.

The government taxes everything already. There is no way to tax the economy more and actually end up with more revenue, all they can do at this point is drive the economy underground or cause a revolt.

I mean for crying out loud, I have to pay HST on my water co-op, yet I own a share of it, which costs $30,000 by the way. WTF? But I am forbidden from drilling a well, even though the water table isn’t that far down. And if I did drill a well, I would have to pay HST on that too.

Everything is already taxed. All wealth taxes are is the government saying we can’t wait until you die to get your capital gains taxes. We need to eat the seeds.

#66 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.14.19 at 8:30 pm

@#52 Blacksheep
Nasa baffle gab.

Reminds me of professor Irwin Corey and the secret to the Cadbury caramilk bar…….

#67 Blackdog on 11.14.19 at 8:44 pm

@Blacksheep,

Damn. I burnt one batch of my meatballs.

I have a one question, before I respond (again) to your question to me.

Do you think that the article you linked to is suggesting that NASA claims man-made climate change is not necessarily happening?

#68 Lost...but not leased on 11.14.19 at 8:47 pm

Ross Kay latest….

One point is due to real estates corrections…people are getting more house for the same buck than they were a year ago.

Then this topic was mentioned:

San Francisco’s new district attorney has chosen social justice over the rule of law

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/san-franciscos-new-district-attorney-has-chosen-social-justice-over-the-rule-of-law

QUOTE:
“We will not prosecute cases involving quality-of-life crimes,” Boudin said during the campaign. “Crimes such as public camping, offering or soliciting sex, public urination, blocking a sidewalk, etc., should not and will not be prosecuted. Many of these crimes are still being prosecuted. We have a long way to go to decriminalize poverty and homelessness.”

===========================

COMMENT:
Apparently only 32% of San Franciscans own RE.
In Canada it’s around 70%

Ross Kay says this should be a warning sign for Canadian gov’ts. The more home ownership exceeds the grasp for most people..we will follow the same path as cities like San Fran.

Hence…if Gov’ts increase various RE related taxes…it will exacerbate the situation.

#69 Remembrancer on 11.14.19 at 8:52 pm

#64 Bezengy on 11.14.19 at 8:26 pm
income to pay for it, and if not, just confiscate the damned thing.
—————————–
So if you’re down with the purchaser having the damned thing confiscated then you are equally down with the seller having the payment confiscated as well as that was the proceeds of crime? That’s quite a rabbit hole you’re heading down…

#70 MF on 11.14.19 at 8:54 pm

Meh I’m all for it. Mostly. Like Garth said, the fact re gains on principal residences are tax free is a big reason why it costs so much. Get rid of that.

I also am of the belief that:

-re gains are 100% artificial and a result of low interest rates and nothing more.
-re “investors” are not really investors at all and don’t deserve and better tax treatment.
-any money freed up from re will be free to be used in a more productive way in our economy. Anything is more productive than re which is a near 100% waste.

Part of me still believes in the free market, but re hasn’t been a free market force for decades now.

MF

#71 dr talc on 11.14.19 at 8:56 pm

wealth?

market value assessment (which is a tax on inflation ) is also a tax on debt if you happen to have a mortgage,
Bolshevism lives on

#72 Rexx Rock on 11.14.19 at 9:08 pm

Met a guy on the bus on the way to Walmart in PV.He said he rented a 1 bed suite in Puerta Vallarta for 250 cad.Non furnished but he said its alright.He’s from Ottawa and said he’ll never spend another winter in Canada.Talk to two Canadian homeowners who own in Puerto Vallarta.Their property taxes were $56 and $62 for a year .Yes really no lie.Mexico is cheap baby and its way safer then LM GTA and Victoria if you live in Puerto Vallarta.
The government of Canada is a mafia.Canadians will be upset when the wealthy will pay over 70% in a few years.Any one notice travelling to cheap countries to vacation or live is getting more expensive.Its are terrible currency dummy,the government hates when its tax slaves leave for more affordable places to live.

#73 Lorne on 11.14.19 at 9:09 pm

#43 Re-Cowtown on 11.14.19 at 6:40 pm
I’m always amazed that BC’ers are OK with accepting the risk of daily tanker loads of oil from Alaska passing a stones throw from the Legislature and getting nothing in return but sky high gasoline prices. They get all the risk, no control and none of the reward.

But when the rest of Canada says, “Hey, we can drop your environmental risk by having safer, better shipping standards, make the Americans send their oil elsewhere, and on top of that build schools, hospitals, feed the starving, shelter the homeless and build roads”

We’re told we’re greedy, ignornant and stupid. Go figure.
……
That would be an awfully long “stones throw”, Cowtown!
We’ve been through this before. You just don’t get that we are not just all about money in this beautiful province…..and yes, you are being “greedy, ignorant & stupid”.

#74 Remembrancer on 11.14.19 at 9:19 pm

#63 NoName on 11.14.19 at 8:18 pm
Just imagine how society would look now if Copernicus dident rebel for a bit. We would steel be walking on flath earth that is stationary and sun would be spining circles around us.
—————————–
The difference would be that the earth still wouldn’t be flat and would indeed be revolving around the sun despite what that non-Copernican head up its a$$ society believed… Thats the essential problem with facts – despite what a you want to believe, they’re, um, like, facts and really don’t notice what you believe – an essential foundation of rationalism. Or looking at this IRL you are going to need some powerful mojo to believe yourself into not getting hurt running into a brick wall by simply believing it doesn’t exist. Good luck with that anti-brick wallers…

#75 fishman on 11.14.19 at 9:20 pm

# 41 Sail Away: Vancouver will take your property for $1.
Pal & Gudy owned lots of property, besides the two $1 hotels. These two guys were classic. Imagine middle aged Punjabi businessmen in cheap suits with bad haircuts. The Niagra would have two for one thursdays. Us cheapskates would show for the two for one ; not for the strippers. Pal & Gudy always came in on thurs. They came for the cheap beer & the strippers. Can’t remember which one had these black horned rim glasses, held together on the bridge by tape. That was a serious topic of conversation for years. New, old scotch,electrical,medical.One time I came back into town after a summer season. Went down to the Niagra. First thing brought up to date on was the status of the tape holding the glasses together.
Those two brothers pretty old by now. They got lots, don’t have to listen to city hall. Go down with the ship in a Viking funeral.

#76 Ustabe on 11.14.19 at 9:23 pm

Back in the day when I was a much younger man there was a cool camping spot in northern Saskatchewan.

On one of a small chain of pothole lakes it had a spit that jutted out into the lake. In a good year the water was ankle deep, bad it was up to your waist.

We used to walk out and toss a pickerel rig out and fish.
Always some pickerel around but to improve our chances of being able to enjoy a feed of pickerel cheeks we sprinkled food in the water, off the tip of this point.

You could use goldfish flakes or bread crumbs or even broken up bits of dry cat food to attract fish and spur them into a feeding frenzy.

That is called chumming the water.

It sure doesn’t take much of Garth chumming the blog to get you all into a pickerel like frenzy.

Glub, glub, boys.

#77 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 9:45 pm

#62 Lost…but not leased on 11.14.19 at 8:18 pm

#41 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 6:36 pm
Vancouver will just take your property for $1
==========================

QUOTE:

VANCOUVER — City council has voted to seize control of two derelict hotels in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside after a lawyer for the property owners warned the municipality it is exposing itself to the risk of litigation by expropriating them for $1 each.

Mayor Kennedy Stewart described council’s unanimous decision on Wednesday to take over the Balmoral and Regent hotels as a “historic vote.”

The expropriation “is a clear message that we are not afraid to use every tool at our disposal to create new affordable homes,” he said in a statement.

————————————–

Every tool indeed. When did outright robbery become one of the tools available to municipal goverments?

Either there’s more to the story that’s not been reported or the entire council is from another planet.

#78 Steven Rowlandson on 11.14.19 at 9:48 pm

Look at the bright side Garth. The government hasn’t figured out that real estate as an investment jacks up prices and rents to the point where it violates article 2 sections c and d of the UN convention on the prevention and punishment of genocide. If they had to take the issue seriously it wouldn’t be a piece of the action they would be after. They would have to suppress prices, regulate prices and rents to protect the poor and bring policy resisters to justice via the rope…. The policy of closing off the frontiers and turning Canada into one of John Calhoun’s mouse utopia experiments would have to be done away with. Mortgage lending is another area that needs to be sorted out and limited if not abolished…. Society should not be a giant Parker Brothers monopoly game.

#79 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 9:53 pm

#76 Ustabe on 11.14.19 at 9:23 pm

Re: Chumming the waters

Oh, we’ve seen you rise to the bait plenty of times Ust. You’re as much a pickerel as the rest of us. Good story.

#80 PastThePeak on 11.14.19 at 9:58 pm

#70 MF on 11.14.19 at 8:54 pm

Part of me still believes in the free market, but re hasn’t been a free market force for decades now.

MF
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nothing about your posts indicate you believe in a free market…

I am always amazed when you refer to yourself as a conservative…

#81 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 9:58 pm

#75 fishman on 11.14.19 at 9:20 pm

Re: Pal and Gudy

Another good story. Fun blog tonight except for the whole taxation doom and despair thing.

#82 Dog Breath on 11.14.19 at 10:00 pm

Well it was all revealed by some whistler-blower that that little weasel Adam Vaughn had written a Liberal policy paper advocating taxing principal residencies. It was of course denied and accepted by the press. Now, after the election it’s coming out in the open. Canadians will rue the day they didn’t remove that silly prancing buffoon and his cronies when they had the chance!!

#83 Robert Ash on 11.14.19 at 10:02 pm

Garth nailed it again… I think you can take this upcoming change to the Bank… An Economy so Dependent on the Housing Market, is certainly a moving target, especially when the Policies, ie Credit market distortions, have inflated the Cost Basis, so dramatically that the potential Tax Dollars, coupled with Government Avarice, are Opium to the Legislators… So what is left, if Small Business is discouraged, Housing investment curtailed, and Productivity is so low…
I remember when the Governments had one time Small Business, tax credits.. $500K, then with a wave of the Wand, reduced to $100K. Then with another wave gone entirely… In other words, the Tax Creep has been around before… In fact T1 was quite happy with the CG’s Inclusion rate at 75%. Bet that is in the Spring 2020 Budget… It is not surprising to me, that many of T2’s current trends, mirror his Fathers, convictions…Millenials, take a moment to see how those past policies, negatively affected Canada…It is sadly Ironic, that Governments of all levels, have Juked the prices, of Housing so high, that this strategy has in fact conscripted the Naive Voter, into supporting a Policy that will surrepticiously, take away one significant source of Financial Inpendence, for any Future Home owners of a Principle Residence… On reflection, I believe it was the Vietnam War, Tricky Dick, Kent State, that set the Bar for the Boomers, to mistrust and discourage large intrusive Governments. This fact alone, is the difference in my opinion, in the Relative levels, of Weath success that have been enjoyed by Boomers, versus Mills… evidenced today. Hello Millenials.. Boomers didn’t let Our Legislators, add 5% GST, to the Price of a house.. how regressive is that.. Hello Millenials, Boomers, didn’t permit Governments, to add significant costs to Registration of Real Property… Land Titles registration was almost free… Mills, you are being Gamed… and Suckered.. Bro!

#84 NoName on 11.14.19 at 10:03 pm

#74 Remembrancer on 11.14.19 at 9:19 pm

It’s not that I don’t believe in CC it’s just that remedy for is utter BS. Take an example that article from above stating that fungus from Fuji is distroing bananas in South America, I am summing Ecuador (biggest banana exporter). Fiji and Ecuador have almost a same climate. It’s not a temperature that is killing bananas it’s fungus that is attacking gmo-ed banana non native trees in South America.

There i go all bananas here.

#85 NoName on 11.14.19 at 10:05 pm

Here is a podcast that I listen months back about bananas. Ok I was wrong not Ecuador but Columbia.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/08/16/751499719/devastating-banana-fungus-arrives-in-colombia-threatening-the-fruits-future

#86 NoName on 11.14.19 at 10:09 pm

@Rememberance

Just out of curiosity why did you left this last sentence out?

Many would probably be making good coin prosecuting heretiks and burning witches…

#87 MF on 11.14.19 at 10:12 pm

2 Rexx Rock on 11.14.19 at 9:08 pm

“ Mexico is cheap baby and its way safer then LM GTA and Victoria if you live in Puerto Vallarta.”

-Not sure if this is serious? Lol

MF

#88 IHCTD9 on 11.14.19 at 10:20 pm

#10 Don Guillermo on 11.14.19 at 4:34 pm

Wow, how sad. The lefty voters in the GTA, LM and Victoria will wonder what the hell’s hit them
——-

Yeah, you can already sort of see where this is going eh? Hopefully all the Mils were moist just for a place to live, instead of an “investment” (thinking of Toronto and YVR of course).

Garth has been on this one since the day the CRA required you to declare the sale of your home at tax time. It’s moving right along too from the looks of it.

It’s yet another example of employing your vote to enlist the force of government to effect the changes you desire – and getting exactly the opposite of what you wanted.

In this case, you can point your finger at those voting for any measure that might crash housing values so that they might become affordable for said voters to buy. Of course, when that happens, and they finally realize their dream of ownership, they now own the rusty carcass of what was once a shiny Corvette that now runs on 3 cylinders instead of 8. The total opposite of the atm machine it used to be, and more likely one that loses value over time as more and more folks readjust their attitude towards RE in light of the new playing field.

#89 IHCTD9 on 11.14.19 at 10:33 pm

#31 yorkville renter on 11.14.19 at 5:55 pm
If Millenials are a larger cohort than Boomers, and we have a 70% ownership rate, how’s it possible that Mills aren’t home owners too?

Prices were really high in the early 90s RE crash… and then they weren’t.

I feel like this is manufactured outrage… anyone else?
———

Outside of the GTA and GVRD, Mils own houses – no problemo. Many more people and houses outside these two cities than in.

#90 yvr_lurker on 11.14.19 at 10:35 pm

#77 Sail Away

Every tool indeed. When did outright robbery become one of the tools available to municipal goverments?

————————

I can perfectly understand from your vantage point in Shaughnessy that you have not been following what has been the issue with the Balmoral at the corner of Hastings and Main for the past 30 years. Building declared structurally unsound and at risk of collapse due to water damage over the years, judgements against the owners to do repairs neglected for a decade, countless lawsuits, etc… all against the owners, the Sahota family; also resident of Shaughnessy. Perhaps your neighbours?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/eviction-order-of-vancouvers-balmoral-hotel-to-be-challenged/article35190102/

Anyways, I would not be surprised that the owners might be a little relieved to have the property taken from their hands with the understanding that all of the lawsuits disappear. I bet there was a deal of this sort. Perhaps the city can take it over, get some kind of repairs done or bulldoze it and put in something for low income people.

#91 Blackdog on 11.14.19 at 10:51 pm

@Blacksheep, The quote is misleading when taken out of context. I think you purposefully omitted the last sentence of the section from where it was taken:

“[…] To develop a much better understanding of clouds, radiation and precipitation, as well as many other climate processes, we need much better observations.”

The quote is used to justify that climate models are bad, but really the authors are just saying that the climate models are only as good as the observations on which they are based.

#92 Duffy on 11.14.19 at 10:52 pm

More liberal remorse, for Gods sake you pitiful people, quite starring at your phones and engage your brain in politics, socialism eventually takes it all.

#93 Blackdog on 11.14.19 at 11:34 pm

Felix, pay attention. Thanks to the internet, the world is so small. You may not know someone, yet can peer into their inner word that they readily share with strangers. Someone on twitter, who’d probably not care if I shared his name, but I won’t, is dying of cancer, not much time left, down to days. He posts daily sharing his life, goals he continues to strive for, has many followers, some famous. His latest twitter feed: “Perhaps only pet owners will get this, but I’ll say it. I’ve been wondering why my cat has been begging for so much attention recently. To a point where I’ve lifted him up and got him out of the way. But then it struck me. Maybe he thinks I need the attention.”

#94 AGuyInVancouver on 11.15.19 at 12:09 am

#41 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 6:36 pm
Vancouver will just take your property for $1:
_ _ _
As they should, the Sahotas are disgusting slumlords who have been skirting the law for years. Cited time and time again. They were offered a fair price to sell, they refused and now they got expropriated.

If you want to exercise some anti-government outrage, save it for the defense of someone worth it and not these lowlifes!

#95 Bobby on 11.15.19 at 12:31 am

For #38, yvr_lurker,

Another myopic view from the left. Imagine if you will, if both Florida and Arizona passed laws that said Canadians couldn’t own properties in those states. Overnight these properties would become worthless and there would be a complete outcry. Those yelling the loudest would be the same clowns advocating for a ban on property ownership by non Canadians in Canada.
No wonder inept governments like the NDP in BC or the clowns in Ottawa get elected. Just look at the electorate.

#96 Sold Out on 11.15.19 at 12:32 am

#77 Sail Away

There’s definitely more to that story. The Sahota family has been lining their pockets with tax payer dollars via the welfare housing allowance for decades. In return they have treated the most vulnerable residents of Vancouver to the sort of housing that gave workhouses a bad name. They have ignored Van city hall’s safety and repair orders to the point that one of those buildings was condemned. I’ve spent quite a bit of time working in those buildings over the years; the best thing you could say about those rat holes is that if you threw up on the floor, no one would notice.
Garth, if you keep winding this mob up much longer, you’re going to develop carpal tunnels yndrome.

#97 Nothing Surprises on 11.15.19 at 12:35 am

An area that should be considered as a base for generating greater taxes is agriculture…….specifically what is becoming an equivalent to the old British feudal land barons.

In southwestern Ontario, there are farm families (Incorporated) owning dozens of farms, buying more every day, building million dollar homes while declaring very small personal incomes that enable their sons and daughters to qualify for grants meant for low income students.
At the same time these farmers purchase a student residence home in a university city through their incorporated farm company and rent out space as well as have their own child live cost free. Adding insult to injury, the new farm residence ends up paying far less tax then a similar property located in a small village in the same township.

These farms have government marketing systems paying them incomes that would put them into the 1% category if they were not able to shield it within the company. A captured market with no competition. The land grows in value and the taxes payable remain miniscule.

At the end of the year spending in the 100’s of thousands of $$$’s on new equipment, new vehicles and year-end corporate meetings on a cruise takes place to reduce corporate exposure to taxes.

I of course will get blow-back that they work hard.
Well one has to investigate and see what “working hard” is all about on farmers who own anywhere between 15 – 90 farms……quite prevalent where I live. I could name 10 examples where the total ownership would tally up to well over a 1000 farms.

I don’t agree with increasing taxes on the 1% who are actually creating wealth based on their entrepreneurship generating more jobs and therefore an expanding tax base.
This is not the case above.

#98 Kevin Cutler on 11.15.19 at 12:37 am

regarding Stan Brooks #8 Stan ! You are a VICTIM LOSER SOCIALIST ! Move to Russia….the hollowed out mafia state of the remnants of a foolish government that thought wealth distribution would be a peachy experiment ! The wealthy in the western world already pay up big time ! In Canada 12 percent of the population pay 60 percent of the taxes ! Not enough for you ? Socialism is a great idea until you run out of OTHER PEOPLES MONEY ! You are blind to the truth . Good luck with that !

#99 Treasure Island CEO - 34,000,488.88 Offshore on 11.15.19 at 12:55 am

Bill Morneau already wrote the capital gains sliding tax scale up. It is coming.

Here are the details:

TAX: Increasing the capital gains of speculation to remove multiple buyers from the market, restricting foreign investment to new construction and restricting the capacity of off shore capital to enter the re-sell market could reduce inflation. This might be achieved by significantly increasing Capital Gains Tax on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th properties.

Another idea that has emerged from housing town halls is a sliding scale on the Capital Gains Tax on the sale of principle residences. A 50% tax after one year of ownership, 25% after two years, 15% after 3 years, 10% after 4 years, 5% after five years. The idea would be to hit speculators who quickly flip houses in hot markets. The funds could be invested back into enhanced savings programmes for first time buyers.

#100 Dr V on 11.15.19 at 12:59 am

68 – lost. I found this link for Canadian homeownership rates in different regions in 2016.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article/00012-eng.htm

what I find interesting is the rate in the 3 largest metros. Toronto, Van and Montreal are all below the
average of 62.8%. In 1999, Montreal was only 45% ownership. Though they have all increased, the above average rates appear outside the major metros, where one would think housing is cheaper.

#101 Smoking Man on 11.15.19 at 1:16 am

Hey freak show progressives.

My favorite song of the night.

https://youtu.be/tJSRfztl_tc

Don Cherry is God….

#102 Figure it Out on 11.15.19 at 3:37 am

“Every dollar they take from you is one less dollar you can spend at Costco. Since they already tax Costco and all of its employees, all that happens is that you will be able to purchase less stuff at Costco and someone will get laid off.”

Lord, save us from simpletons who can type quickly and have too much time on their hands.

– If the Government taxes you and gives your dollar to somebody else, you have one less dollar To Spend At Costco, and the other person has One More Dollar TSAC.
– if the G uses your dollar to pay off debt, the bondholder now has OMDTSAC
– if the G uses your dollar to build roads and schools, the construction workers and material suppliers now have OMDTSAC
– if the G uses your dollar to buy military equipment from another country, the other country’s factory workers now have OMDTSAC.
– If the G puts your dollar in an old barrel and burns it, nobody has OMDTSAC, but everybody’s dollars increase in purchasing power a bit, and the dollars you have left go a bit further at Costco.

Hope this helps.

#103 waggily tail on 11.15.19 at 3:39 am

Take the vow of perpetual poverty and squat. The only way to win is get out. Humans have a long, successful history as cave dwellers. Indoor plumbing is overrated.

Interesting sidebar, the TNRD district in BC is facing a backlash over a decision to evict people living in RVs on their own rural land. This means no RV guests, campouts, and no longterm stays while building a house. So fifty miles from nowhere, up a gravel road, you can’t camp on your own land. The response has been, “yeah, right.”

During the wildfire season, RCMP began evicting rural residents under an evacuation order until a judge reminded them, ah no, you can’t do that to a land owner. Kids must go, but adults can stay and fight fires on their own site. Some jurisdictions are so remote, government actually has to work with the people or it won’t make it through one winter.

#104 Ferdinand McMillan on 11.15.19 at 4:57 am

Is gifting your real estate to ones children a viable tax avoidance strategy. To avoid the tax a property could be held in the family and never sold. Any argument or better explanation? Or when you die will it into their names. Either way..screw Trudeau if he thinks he can confiscate homes which have been paid for with after tax income. What IS the best strategy to knock the Trudeau Tax Grab?

#105 BillyBob on 11.15.19 at 6:47 am

#14 Re-Cowtown on 11.14.19 at 4:47 pm
If they want to treat peoples homes like a money making businesses, then, fine. make 100% of interest payments, heat, power, taxes and maintenance deductible. And allow people to writeoff leasehold (renos) improvements.

Trudeau wants it to be a business? Fine… then treat it like one.

=====================================================

Who said they intend to treat housing like a business? Just because stupid Canadians insist on labelling their home as “their biggest investment” doesn’t mean the government will.

There are many ways that something can be considered for tax treatment. Income, property, and sales taxes don’t treat taxation on these items as businesses, the government just takes varying percentages of the total sum.

I don’t think there’s any intent to treat homes like a business – only as a juicy appreciating asset. And I think you’re dreaming if you believe that housing could only be taxed with the accompanying breaks businesses receive.

===================================================

#16 Shawn Allen on 11.14.19 at 4:48 pm
Tax

I mean, one man’s tax break is another man’s tax increase. That is simple math. So every tax break we clamor for has its consequences, TFSA included. Simple math.

=====================================================

Logic failure. I thought you were an accountant? Not so much “simple math” as simplistic, erroneous zero-sum assumptions about economics. A few points:

1. TFSA money has already been taxed.

2. Bemoaning foregone revenue from a source that wouldn’t exist without the tax relief that incentivized the actual investment capital is circular logic at its worst. Suck and blow, as Garth might say.

3. If, on the other hand we choose to believe the zero-sum notion, then a citizen saving/investing more on their own behalf is actually reducing the burden on the public purse.

So which is it?

#106 Say my name on 11.15.19 at 6:48 am

#80 PastThePeak on 11.14.19 at 9:58 pm
#70 MF on 11.14.19 at 8:54 pm

Part of me still believes in the free market, but re hasn’t been a free market force for decades now.

MF
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nothing about your posts indicate you believe in a free market…

I am always amazed when you refer to yourself as a conservative…

———————-
That’s because he missed out. Now he just drips with envy and spouts nonsense at every chance. Just scroll right on past MF’s drivel like most everyone else.

#107 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.15.19 at 7:59 am

@#Sail Away
“Either there’s more to the story that’s not been reported or the entire council is from another planet.”
+++++

The owners/landlords of those two hotels were repeatedly in the news for Building code violations, health code violations, fire code violations and they refused to comply, year after year, decade after decade.
The epitome of slum lords.
They collected rents from the most vulnerable in the city. Drug addicts or the mentally disabled.
Rats, cockroaches, mould, leaking roofs, suicides, assaults, murders, endless overdoses were but a few of the problems plaguing the “hotels”.
Obviously the city finally, finally had enough and expropriated them.
The multi millionaire owners ignored all warnings to upgrade for years.
Well what options did the City of Van have?
Wait for a fire that would have killed dozens? Hundreds?
And then the Lawyers would be circling in a Class action suit against the City of Van (the deepest pockets around) because “the city did nothing”?
I fully expect the cost (to the city taxpayers) to renovate these pestilence factories will be so egregious….they will be torn down.

Dont weep for the Sahota family…..they’re still multi, multi millionaires….. and they dont deserve anyone’s pity.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2018/10/05/slumlords-sahota-vancouver-rental-shell-game-burnaby/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-new-westminster-did-what-vancouver-couldnt-fix-up-the-sahota-family/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/court-denies-class-action-lawsuit-against-sahota-family-landlords-of-decrepit-hotels-1.4861576

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sahota-family-guilty-bylaw-violations-1.5106793

#108 Cottingham a bargain on 11.15.19 at 8:10 am

Jessica Allen’s comments about “ white boys” in hockey being “mostly bullies “and “not very nice “ garners crickets for outrage from the comments section.

Hmmmm

#109 NoName on 11.15.19 at 8:10 am

Interesting read

https://amp.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-reusable-housing-revolution

#110 Tater on 11.15.19 at 8:12 am

#15 Stan Brooks on 11.14.19 at 4:48 pm
Right to own property/land in a low paid labour camp/sweatshop with astronomical cost of living and stingy, stupid oligopoly owners, run by insanely corrupt, ethically challenged and incompetent lefties?

You know what I was told when departing? Don’t come here, there is too many of us on the beach.

I am hearing it is gorgeous weather there at the moment.

Enjoy and cheers,
————————————————————-

Stan’s life must be quite empty if he left Canada and still spends his free time on a blog ranting about Canada’s deficiencies instead of enjoying his supposedly wonderful life in paradise.

I mean, it would be, if he weren’t obviously locked in a loony bin.

#111 Renter's Revenge! on 11.15.19 at 8:17 am

Everybody likes a handout until it comes from their pocket.

#112 Bezengy on 11.15.19 at 8:17 am

#69 So if you’re down with the purchaser having the damned thing confiscated then you are equally down with the seller having the payment confiscated as well as that was the proceeds of crime? That’s quite a rabbit hole you’re heading down…
———————
I’m not down with any of this left wing spend/tax BS, but a foreigner’s tax is so easy (no lawyers involved) and profitable for cash strapped governments to implement they can’t resist, and all the while claiming they’re solving a housing crisis. The CRA would like to have the ability to confiscate to help eliminate money laundering ( and generate revenue) but when a property is owned by foreigners, how do they get access to personal information to prove their case? Sounds like a 7 year expensive and time wasting court battle to me. Much easier for municipalities to just tax the crap out of them. Of course the Feds would like a piece of the action, hence new national tax on foreign owned property is on the way.

#113 Tater on 11.15.19 at 8:19 am

#25 the ryguy on 11.14.19 at 5:41 pm
Trudeau wants it to be a business? Fine… then treat it like one.
————————————————————————–

You silly racist, sexist, xenophobe. Up in Canada budgets balance themselves..just pay your taxes so I can afford my fuscia hair dye, you cis-white male piece of garbage.
————————————————————-

Haven’t we already done this before? You drag up this canard, I point out that the actual quote was:

“the commitment needs to be a commitment to grow the economy and the budget will balance itself”

And that most economists, on either side of the political spectrum agree that this is true?

#114 oh bouy on 11.15.19 at 8:45 am

@#108 Cottingham a bargain on 11.15.19 at 8:10 am
Jessica Allen’s comments about “ white boys” in hockey being “mostly bullies “and “not very nice “ garners crickets for outrage from the comments section.

Hmmmm
_______________________________

sweeping generalizations aren’t worth the effort of a rebuttal.

#115 Remembrancer on 11.15.19 at 8:57 am

#86 NoName on 11.14.19 at 10:09 pm
@Rememberance

Just out of curiosity why did you left this last sentence out?

Many would probably be making good coin prosecuting heretiks and burning witches…
————————————————–
No disagreement, there’s always coin to be made and power to be gained by the cynical whipping up frenzies to fleece the disenfranchised margins or weak minded and misguided looking to belong to something… See Willson’s “The Music Man” as a cautionary tale of American hucksterism for example, though the happy ending rarely mirrors real life…

#116 Remembrancer on 11.15.19 at 9:14 am

#113 Tater on 11.15.19 at 8:19 am
#25 the ryguy on 11.14.19 at 5:41 pm

“the commitment needs to be a commitment to grow the economy and the budget will balance itself”

And that most economists, on either side of the political spectrum agree that this is true?
—————————————————–
The problem though with the basic asininities of that statement is that the challenge is in how to do that – like getting a block of wood and a whittling knife with instructions to carve out the pieces that don’t look like part of the Bonhomme Richard…

No concrete energy policy, no concrete infrastructure policy, disastrous trade policies etc etc ie stuff to grow the economy – the lack of his substance shouldn’t be surprising of course, that was translated through the whole mandate in the costume pantomimes, but there were supposed to be some adults in the room…

#117 Shawn Allen on 11.15.19 at 9:23 am

Who pays for tax breaks
Billy Bob at 105 responded to me:

#16 Shawn Allen on 11.14.19 at 4:48 pm

I mean, one man’s tax break is another man’s tax increase. That is simple math. So every tax break we clamor for has its consequences, TFSA included. Simple math.

=====================================================

Logic failure. I thought you were an accountant? Not so much “simple math” as simplistic, erroneous zero-sum assumptions about economics. A few points:

1. TFSA money has already been taxed.
Shawn’s rebuttal: That is completely irrelevant. Almost every dollar we ever possess has already been taxed. The argument not to tax gains on already taxed money would mean no tax on any investment gains. Really silly and would lead to even more wealth concentration. THE TFSA is a rare exception to the rule that ALL income is taxed.

2. Bemoaning foregone revenue from a source that wouldn’t exist without the tax relief that incentivized the actual investment capital is circular logic at its worst. Suck and blow, as Garth might say.

Rebuttal: That is actually a good point if it can be shown that the tax break truly led to additional investment and income that would not otherwise exist. Very hard to prove. But I will avoid partial credit for your comment here.

3. If, on the other hand we choose to believe the zero-sum notion, then a citizen saving/investing more on their own behalf is actually reducing the burden on the public purse.

Rebuttal: True, saving and investing reduces the burden on government in your old age. Just like working today means you don’t get welfare. But that does not mean you don’t deserve to pay fair tax on income and gains.

So which is it?

Rebutttal / answer: The fact remains, One man’s tax break is another man’s tax increase.

This statement is not meant to be 100% true in all cases but rather to point out that your tax break causes lower revenue to the government and so their is a cost to that.

Self-serving arguments don’t change that.

You can leave off the insult next time. I am deducting points for that.

#118 Re-Cowtown on 11.15.19 at 9:36 am

#73 Lorne on 11.14.19 at 9:09 pm
#43 Re-Cowtown on 11.14.19 at 6:40 pm
I’m always amazed that BC’ers are OK with accepting the risk of daily tanker loads of oil from Alaska passing a stones throw from the Legislature and getting nothing in return but sky high gasoline prices. They get all the risk, no control and none of the reward.

But when the rest of Canada says, “Hey, we can drop your environmental risk by having safer, better shipping standards, make the Americans send their oil elsewhere, and on top of that build schools, hospitals, feed the starving, shelter the homeless and build roads”

We’re told we’re greedy, ignornant and stupid. Go figure.
……
That would be an awfully long “stones throw”, Cowtown!
We’ve been through this before. You just don’t get that we are not just all about money in this beautiful province…..and yes, you are being “greedy, ignorant & stupid”.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

BC is all about the Benjamins. I’ve lived in Point Grey and Victoria and the thing that I’ve always chuckled about is how so many people there think “OK, I’m living here now… Time to slam the door behind me and not let anyone else in or it’ll ruin my life”.

Van and Vic pretend to be this progressive uptopia, but they’re really not. But as long as you have the money you can have a good life. And you better bring a lot of it with you because you can’t make it there.

#119 Sail Away on 11.15.19 at 10:11 am

Re: Vancouver motels

If the motels have big problems, are condemned, and represent liabilities to the City where expropriation is a feasible solution, then ok. What is not ok is voting to take them for $1. These properties are worth 10s of million$.

Expropriate if absolutely unavoidable, but it must be done for fair market value. I’m guessing this is actually being done but not reported properly. As reported, it sounds like council is emotionally voting to take private property for virtually no compensation.

#120 Blackdog on 11.15.19 at 10:21 am

@Blacksheep, regarding your suspicion of climate models. I’m not a climate scientist, so hope you don’t mind that I referred to one for help responding to your question.

“Objection: Why should we trust a bunch of contrived computer models that have never had a prediction confirmed? Talk to me in 100 years.

Answer: Given the absence of a few duplicate planets and some large time machines, we can’t test a 100-year temperature projection. Does that mean the models can’t be validated without waiting 100 years? No.

The climate is an extremely complex system. Our observations of it are by no means complete — even with regard to what’s going on today.

This is a shortcoming we need to work hard to correct, but it is also an opportunity for validating model predictions: Find a measurement we’ve never taken, see how the models say it should turn out, and then go take it and compare.

Still, there are global temperature predictions that have been validated. We can start with one of the pioneers in climate science. Over 100 years ago, in 1896, Svante Arrhenius predicted that human emissions of CO2 would warm the climate. Obviously he used a much simpler model than current Ocean Atmosphere Coupled Global Climate models, which run on super computers.

Arrhenius overestimated the climate’s sensitivity to CO2 by a factor of 2. At the same time, he hugely underestimated the degree of warming, assuming CO2 would rise very slowly (who could have predicted the emissions the future held?). Still, it was a pretty impressive early success for models.

Running the clock forward: in 1988, James Hansen of NASA GISS fame predicted [PDF] that temperature would climb over the next 12 years, with a possible brief episode of cooling in the event of a large volcanic eruption. He made this prediction in a landmark paper and before a Senate hearing, which marked the official “coming out” to the general public of anthropogenic global warming. Twelve years later, he was proven remarkably correct, requiring adjustment only for the timing difference between the simulated future volcanic eruption and the actual eruption of Mount Pinatubo.

And let’s face it, every year of increasing global mean temperature is one more year of success for the climate models. The acceleration of the rise is also playing out as predicted, though to be fair, decades will need to pass before such confirmation is inarguable.

Putting global surface temperatures aside, there are some other significant model predictions made and confirmed:

– models predict that surface warming should be accompanied by cooling of the stratosphere, and this has indeed been observed;
– models have long predicted warming of the lower, mid, and upper troposphere, even while satellite readings seemed to disagree — but it turns out the satellite analysis was full of errors and on correction, this warming has been observed;
– models predict warming of ocean surface waters, as is now observed;
– models predict an energy imbalance between incoming sunlight and outgoing infrared radiation, which has been detected;
– models predict sharp and short-lived cooling of a few tenths of a degree in the event of large volcanic eruptions, and Mount Pinatubo confirmed this;
– models predict an amplification of warming trends in the Arctic region, and this is indeed happening;
and finally, to get back to where we started, models predict continuing and accelerating warming of the surface, and so far they are correct.

It is only long-term predictions that need the passage of time to prove or disprove them, but we don’t have that time at our disposal. Action is required in the very near term. We must take the many successes of climate models as strong validation that their long-term predictions, which forecast dire consequences, are accurate.

If we seek even more confidence, there is another way to test a model’s predictive power over long time periods: hindcasting. By starting the model at some point in the past — say, the turn of the 20th century — and running it forward, feeding it confirmed observational data on GHG, aerosol, solar, volcanic, and albedo forcing, we can directly compare modeled behavior with the actual, observed course of events.

Of course, this has been done many times. Have a look at this page and judge for yourself how the models held up.

Would a prediction made in 1900 of temperature for year 2000 have been validated? Would politicians in 1900 have been wise to heed the warnings of science, had science had today’s climate models then?

Clearly, yes.

https://grist.org/climate-energy/climate-models-are-unproven/

(Part of the How to Talk to a Global Warming Skeptic guide)

#121 Sail Away on 11.15.19 at 10:22 am

Fartz, when you write ‘most vulnerable’ for the motels’ tenants, I read ‘most troublesome, time consuming and difficult tenants possible’.

You’re blaming the murders, suicides and drug use on the owners? Have you visited that area?

Being a neglectful owner can never justify theft of their property.

#122 Quintelian on 11.15.19 at 10:27 am

Governments created the housing bubble, through the levers of reckless monetary policy. Savers were forced to subsidize borrowers with below zero real interest rates. Made it easy for speculators to flip properties, looked the other way while drug money funneled into real estate. Used tax payers money for infrastructure that boosted real estate values and speculators benefited, while renters were renovicted as values went up.

The whole scheme was to buy votes by creating the illusion yielded by the wealth effect, which was to be a temporary measure, but they kept the patient on opioids too long and now the addiction has taken hold and the tooth needs to be pulled.

I don’t see the unfairness.

#123 MF on 11.15.19 at 10:34 am

#106 Say my name on 11.15.19 at 6:48 am

Looks like we disagree. And that you have zero argument.

MF

#124 IHCTD9 on 11.15.19 at 10:56 am

#103 waggily tail on 11.15.19 at 3:39 am

Interesting sidebar, the TNRD district in BC is facing a backlash over a decision to evict people living in RVs on their own rural land. This means no RV guests, campouts, and no longterm stays while building a house. So fifty miles from nowhere, up a gravel road, you can’t camp on your own land. The response has been, “yeah, right.”
___

Yep, like so many other laws and bylaws – that one falls under the same heading as the requirement to obtain a permit to have a yard sale.

Because you know – it’s so important for folks to not camp on their own land.

Total waste of time and effort.

#125 Re-Cowtown on 11.15.19 at 11:15 am

Evaluating the risk of oil tanker spills is so confusing that most people can’t get their brains wrapped around the actual risk.

Maybe we should express risk of these huge scary and complicated matters in terms of something that we’re familiar with, but do anyway, every day?

As we’re booking a flight for an airplane trip, we all understand that the plane may crash, but we view the benefit of the trip to outweigh the risk and cost, so we pack up our suitcases and head to the airport anyway. Let’s call this risk, one that we all understand and accept, the Airplane Crash Standard.

Although an oil tanker spill off of Stanley Park is unlikely to cost any human lives, let’s assume that the effect on the eco-system and its subsequent clean up would be an equivalent tragedy to a fully loaded 747 crashing into the same waters off Stanley Park.

Using the Airplane Crash Standard, is a tanker spill risk the same risk as any of us taking an airplane flight? Or a thousand? Or a million?

I googled tanker spills and found out that there are no instances of Exxon Valdez style spills from any modern double hull tanker, anywhere in the world. To their credit, the eco-movement should take a well-deserved victory lap on improving tanker safety the world over and making Exxon Valdez type spills a thing of the past.

In fact oil spills of all types are a tiny fraction of what they were in the 1970’s:

https://ourworldindata.org/oil-spills

But back to the Airplane Crash Standard. The odds of an airplane crashing are about 1 in 11 million. With zero Exxon Valdez type spills recorded by modern double hull crude carriers, the odds of spill are lower than that of an airplane crash.

We all enjoy the benefits of air travel while accepting the risk. Tanker traffic is no riskier, yet gives Canadians vast benefits in terms of schools, roads, hospitals, and social programs. Seems like a heck of a deal for less than the risk of getting on an airplane.

#126 DON on 11.15.19 at 11:29 am

#43 Re-Cowtown on 11.14.19 at 6:40 pm

I’m always amazed that BC’ers are OK with accepting the risk of daily tanker loads of oil from Alaska passing a stones throw from the Legislature and getting nothing in return but sky high gasoline prices. They get all the risk, no control and none of the reward.

But when the rest of Canada says, “Hey, we can drop your environmental risk by having safer, better shipping standards, make the Americans send their oil elsewhere, and on top of that build schools, hospitals, feed the starving, shelter the homeless and build roads”

We’re told we’re greedy, ignornant and stupid. Go figure.
*********************

UMMM!

How many times have you tried to spew this misinformation.

The oil from Alaska travels down from Alaska in the PACIFIC OCEAN, not the inside straight. The increased oil traffic that is proposed will travel from the second NARROWS to the First Narrows through the port of Vancouver bordering all the rich real estate. The inside passage has some of the World’s strongest currents etc, it is even dicey at times in the dead of August when the storms blow in UN expectantly. It’s NOT a lake. I suggest you come out and go fishing in the middle of summer off the coast of Port Hardy if you want the experience.

But if you work for Kenny’s war room that doesn’t matter. AND since the US is producing it’s own oil it does not need Canadian Oil at the moment – that may change, but for now they don’t. China is buying from Iran, Russia, Saudi etc. The boom bust cycle in Alberta happened before a mere 35 years ago, so it is fresh in the history books. Meanwhile Kenny (Alberta’s Christy Clark) is floundering…cause he has no PLAN. Knowing oil is down for the count (at least for now) I would be diversifying the economy so that the PEOPLE are taken care of and not the companies that are still ranking in profits YET laying off workers.

Does Kenny’s war room allow breaks?

#127 Dharma Bum on 11.15.19 at 11:59 am

Tax home ownership?

Haha.

While everyone has they’re eye on the GTA and LM folks, it’s the Maritimers that will go totally ballistic and start a revolution!

Gotta watch out for those down-to-earth types. Once you hit their pocket books, the rattlesnake comes out of ’em.

#128 DON on 11.15.19 at 12:00 pm

It seems that PRIVATE insurance is also increasing due to increased accidents, claims and the high price associated with fixing newer cars (all those sensors need to be reset when cars get hit)

https://globalnews.ca/news/6164527/alberta-drivers-car-insurance-premiums-2020/

“The Insurance Bureau of Canada (IBC) said it doesn’t know exactly how many other insurers operating in Alberta have also applied for rate changes, but added there are a number of them.

IBC’s Western vice president Celyeste Power said they have no choice, considering how claims have been increasing in the province.

“Insurers have actually been losing about 12 cents, on average, on every dollar that they’ve been taking in right now,” Power said. “So they’ve been paying $1.12 for every $1 they’re taking in.”

The IBC is the same group lobbying to enter get rid of Public insurance but are now raising rates across Canada. So both Public and Private insurance rates are rising, but the public insurance can’t deny you.

So why did Kenny’s party raise rates on Alberta’s drivers, even businesses are complaining.

Partisan thinking – Trumps logic.

#129 Lost...but not leased on 11.15.19 at 12:02 pm

Re TNRD evicting people from RV’s…

https://www.therockymountaingoat.com/2019/09/rvs-living-on-the-edge-in-the-tnrd/

Probably trying to kill a flea with a sledgehammer.
TNRD is a large area with both city and vast rural areas.

I doubt these RV are parked in the more expensive urban areas…

Given this topic is Gov’t tax grabs…TNRD is likely trying to force the issue to have owner build permanent homes and thus grab more property taxes.

#130 Sail away on 11.15.19 at 12:02 pm

#90 yvr_lurker on 11.14.19 at 10:35 pm

I can perfectly understand from your vantage point in Shaughnessy that you have not been following what has been the issue with the Balmoral

—————————————

Oh, I don’t live in Shaughnessy and would never run a business in Vancouver. The stratospheric costs and traffic logistics would remove 15-20% of our profits immediately and unnecessarily. Much happier and more profitable a few hours away; though of course we still charge near Vancouver rates when working there, just a little less to beat out the local firms.

I do have a Shaughnessy home to sell if you’re interested, although I’m waiting for the Van RE mania to re-establish for maximum profit.

#131 NoName on 11.15.19 at 12:21 pm

#115 Remembrancer on 11.15.19 at 8:57 am

Can you tell me with straight face that carbon tax is not best and worst example of hucksterism when it comes to climate change…

Anyways you win, rememberancer. I give up…

#132 Lorne on 11.15.19 at 12:23 pm

#118 Re-Cowtown on 11.15.19 at 9:36 am
#73 Lorne on 11.14.19 at 9:09 pm
#43 Re-Cowtown on 11.14.19 at 6:40 pm
I’m always amazed that BC’ers are OK with accepting the risk of daily tanker loads of oil from Alaska passing a stones throw from the Legislature and getting nothing in return but sky high gasoline prices. They get all the risk, no control and none of the reward.

But when the rest of Canada says, “Hey, we can drop your environmental risk by having safer, better shipping standards, make the Americans send their oil elsewhere, and on top of that build schools, hospitals, feed the starving, shelter the homeless and build roads”

We’re told we’re greedy, ignornant and stupid. Go figure.
……
That would be an awfully long “stones throw”, Cowtown!
We’ve been through this before. You just don’t get that we are not just all about money in this beautiful province…..and yes, you are being “greedy, ignorant & stupid”.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

BC is all about the Benjamins. I’ve lived in Point Grey and Victoria and the thing that I’ve always chuckled about is how so many people there think “OK, I’m living here now… Time to slam the door behind me and not let anyone else in or it’ll ruin my life”.

Van and Vic pretend to be this progressive uptopia, but they’re really not. But as long as you have the money you can have a good life. And you better bring a lot of it with you because you can’t make it there.
,,,,,,,,,,
Been here my whole life…….doing fine.

#133 DON on 11.15.19 at 12:27 pm

Re-Cowtown

“I googled tanker spills and found out that there are no instances of Exxon Valdez style spills from any modern double hull tanker,”

*****************

From Google:

“250,000 barrels of crude (or 10.8 million gallons) were released into the Gulf of Alaska after the oil tanker Exxon Valdez crashed into a rocky reef. … Three hours after leaving port the tanker hit Bligh Reef, which ruptured several tanks, spilling crude into Prince William Sound.”

You think a double hull has been tested against a rocky reef in an unpredictable stormy surf. When you were living in Victoria/Point Grey you saw only relatively calm waters, travel up island a bit. A couple years ago we had an oil tanker dead in the water off Haida Gwaii. Ice ripped through the Titanic didn’t it?

https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/23/opinion/holleman-exxon-valdez-anniversary/index.html

25 years later and the area is still not cleanup.

It is amazing that my google search bought up these results. Does your google have a oil filter on it.

If you build it they will buy. Tell that to Australia LNG? Google that. Also google the new pipelines between Russia and China. Google more oil fields being found, after we were TOLD there were no more.

In US (Dakota?) a pipeline just spilled 160 000 litres of oil on land. I was told pipelines don’t leak.

I am not anti oil and already pay more than most of the rest of Canada but no one can explain why exactly. If that’s that case BC should buy all our gas from the US who are pumping it out.

For years all I have heard is how many people have made tons of cash working in the Oil fields, apparently no one thought to save or buy less toys. FFS! My BIL who worked in the Oil fields shakes his head, he warned people that a bust would follow sooner or later, he paid off all his bills and found a new job. Like who the hell pays 80K for a truck. Why? Now Van Isle is scattered with listings of people trying to sell their used fully loaded trucks for 60K. You don’t need all the baller bells and whistles – a truck is a truck and it is meant to work, not be a high priced grocery transporter. FFS – as some boomers and their parents before them said…”give your head a shake’ and get back to life, cause all the complaining will do nothing. Look at the global economy, less demand, high debt where do you think we are headed?

#134 Lost...but not leased on 11.15.19 at 12:28 pm

Re Experts, expertise, herd consensus, propoganda and reality.

Australia’s Coral Reefs Are Not Dying

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=197903

Note: Awesome video !!!

QUOTE:
A key claim in a January 2016 article in the scientific journal, Nature, is that there are no longer any living colonies of Acropora – a particular type of coral – at Stone Island off Bowen Harbour in the Whitsundays, and that other corals are now covered in mud.

Dr Peter Ridd’s path to dismissal by James Cook University began with an email questioning claims that the corals at Stone

Dr Marohasy and her team went to find out the true state of the coral reefs around Stone Island.

What they found contradicts the Nature paper and proves this key reef system is very much alive.

Read the IPA’s media release here.

Click here to read Dr Jennifer Marohasy’s articles on climate change and Great Barrier Reef science.

Throughout history, individuals have been crushed by the masses, particularly when their evidence does not concur with the overall agenda. Rational argument is not possible when people think in terms of slogans, especially when some of those in authority have no real firsthand experience of nature.

===================

COMMENT:
People need to be aware of how internal politics work in every professional body.
I listened to a lecture on the “gender”issue by an MD.

How is the science etc. “settled” ???

This MD said that a small lobby group of about 15 people lobbied the executive board of his association to set the policy we see today….there was no science nor “vote”..it was top down decision to about 60,000 members who are now obligated to comply for fear of losing their license.

This is repeated in other professions and their executive bodies.

#135 Blog Bunny on 11.15.19 at 12:41 pm

Garth,

Looks like your protégés from millenial revolution made a smart choice to be 100% liquid with no real estate. If the taxes get too high, I will follow suit. What’s the point of working so hard if everything is taxed away.

P.S. I would love to have you as PM.

#136 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.15.19 at 12:54 pm

@Sail Away
“Being a neglectful owner can never justify theft of their property.”
+++++

No but being a slum lord that repeatedly violated By-Laws, Fire Code, Building Code, Health Code FOR DECADES and then fought the fines levied against them……does justify the seizure of their property.
They have cost the taxpayers millions in investigative costs and court costs that have dragged on FOR DECADES.

They ignored everything that went on in their buildings as long as the rents were paid……FOR DECADES.

I dont weep for the slum landlords of the city

But I suggest you Go live in one of the DTES “hotels” for a month and report back.
I would but apparently the elevators dont work…..

#137 not 1st on 11.15.19 at 1:13 pm

#127 Dharma Bum on 11.15.19 at 11:59 am

it’s the Maritimers that will go totally ballistic and start a revolution!

—–

Huh? the maritimes just rolled over for the liberals like nothing. Seems like the fight is gone.

#138 not 1st on 11.15.19 at 1:32 pm

#135 Blog Bunny on 11.15.19 at 12:41 pm

They cant tax your RE if you don’t sell, same as stocks and there is a very large group of peoplekind who own homes and can revolt.

Taxing financial assets (dividends and trades) takes stroke of a pen and only a small percentage of Canadians have financial assets of any kind. So look for taxes there first.

US has forced investment via 401K, that’s why their stock market goes up and ours goes nowhere.

#139 Where's The Money Slumlord? on 11.15.19 at 1:33 pm

Re: #119 Sail Away on 11.15.19 at 10:11 am
Re: Vancouver motels

If the motels have big problems, are condemned, and represent liabilities to the City where expropriation is a feasible solution, then ok. What is not ok is voting to take them for $1. These properties are worth 10s of million$.

Expropriate if absolutely unavoidable, but it must be done for fair market value. I’m guessing this is actually being done but not reported properly. As reported, it sounds like council is emotionally voting to take private property for virtually no compensation.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These landlords owe money for fines that been unpaid for decades….
They have been in the news since the early 90’s and have paid not one cent of the fines, bought more properties and ignored calls to fix those properties up and basically ignored every attempt by the city to conform to regulations.
They should have been turfed decades ago.
They are the lowest form of slumlords in all of Canada.

#140 Nasajoke on 11.15.19 at 1:45 pm

If climate change is man made it is done through ways unknown to the average sheeple (think sinister). I dont dare make any suggestions for fear of projecting the tinfoil hat effigy. It isnt the average joe driving his car.

Climate change is ever constant. But if they can project a truth that points to you as the cause and fear monger you to funnel more $ to the ever hungry debt machine, then cudos to them.

On that note, I suspect it is something much larger than us.. like planetary changes of sorts. If average person could only look behind the curtain and see the truths of what is really happening they would no longer trust any powers that be

#141 Blacksheep on 11.15.19 at 2:02 pm

Blackdog # 91,

BD: “The quote is used to justify that climate models are bad”

BS: Bad, no. Wildly inaccurate, yes,

BD: “but really the authors are just saying that the climate models are only as good as the observations on which they are based.”

BS: Agreed, but the observations of this climate model are shit and that’s what NASA states: “today’s models must be improved by about a hundredfold in accuracy”

Please excuse the caps, I’m not yelling, only bringing attention to the RELEVANT language, for Blackdog and anyone else holding current climate modeling science, as the Holy Grail on Co2 emissions.

NASA’s site: https://isccp.giss.nasa.gov/role.html

“Because there are so many possibilities for change, climatologists MUST KNOW how clouds over the entire Earth WILL RESPOND. Determining that response calls for computer models of the global climate that can explore changing conditions. Climate models are sets of mathematical equations that describe the properties of Earth’s atmosphere at discrete places and times, along with the ways such properties can change.”

“The CHALLENGE for climate models is to account for the most important physical processes, including cloud microphysics and cloud dynamics, and their complex interactions ACCURATLEY enough to carry climatic PREDICTIONS tens of years into the FUTURE.”

“When contemporary models are given information about Earth’s present condition — the size, shape and topography of the continents; the composition of the atmosphere; the amount of sunlight striking the globe — they create artificial climates that mathematically resemble the real one: their temperatures and winds are accurate to within about 5%, BUT their clouds and rainfall are ONLY ACCURATE to within ABOUT 25-35%. Such models can also accurately forecast the temperatures and winds of the weather many days ahead when given information about current conditions.”

“UNFORTUNATLEY, such a margin of error is MUCH TOO LARGE for making a RELIABLE FORCAST about CLIMATE CHANGES, such as the GLOBAL WARMING will result from INCREASING abundances of greenhouse GASES in the atmosphere.”

“A doubling in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), predicted to take place in the next 50 to 100 years, is expected to change the radiation balance at the surface BY ONLY about 2 percent.”

“Yet ACCORDING to current CLIMATE MODELS, such a SMALL CHANGE could RAISE global mean surface TEMPRATURES by between 2-5°C (4-9°F), with potentially DRAMATIC consequences.”

“IF a 2 percent change IS THAT important, then a CLIMATE MODEL to be useful must be ACCURATE to something like 0.25%.”

“Thus TODAYS’S MODELS must be IMPROVED by about a HUNDREDFOLD in ACCURACY, a VERY challenging task.”

“To DEVELOP a much better understanding of clouds, radiation and precipitation, as well as many other climate processes, we NEED MUCH BETTER observations.”

#142 kommykim on 11.15.19 at 2:02 pm

RE:#46 Don Guillermo on 11.14.19 at 6:50 pm
#37 kommykim on 11.14.19 at 6:25 pm
RE:#10 Don Guillermo on 11.14.19 at 4:34 pm
Wow, how sad. The lefty voters in the GTA, LM and Victoria will wonder what the hell’s hit them!
=====================================
Why? Because right-wingers are too poor to own property?

****************************************

… how about too smart to waste money in those markets.

=====================================

WHOOSH!
I think there are plenty of right-wingers who have also profited from the housing price boom in those areas. Plus those right-wingers who just bought in. Mr Market does not play favorites. I was just surprised that you also wished them misfortune.

#143 Cottingham a bargain on 11.15.19 at 2:09 pm

Jessica Allen’s words exceed those of Cherry’s by quite the margin.

Although I think Cherry should not have suffered his fate
and I would have given Jessica a pass as well ,now we need a level playing field and therefore termination for Jessica seems only option.

Time will tell but if she gets to stay ,without the contrived obligatory apology, you can expect further outrage

#144 Blacksheep on 11.15.19 at 2:26 pm

Blackdog # 120,

“@Blacksheep, regarding your suspicion of climate models.”

The link I provided, is from NASA’s site.

The copy and pasted quote I provided, is from NASA’s site.

https://isccp.giss.nasa.gov/role.html

The original question I posed to you was:

“Please counter NASA’s actual statement from their Government website, explaining why these climate models, are simply not reliable enough to give accurate predictions”

Why are you trying to educate me, on the accuracy of current climate change models? I asked you to refute NASA’s findings posted on their website? I’m sure they would love you to give em a call, to you know, help straighten out their ‘science denier’ rational…

#145 Sail Away on 11.15.19 at 3:15 pm

#136 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.15.19 at 12:54 pm
@Sail Away
“Being a neglectful owner can never justify theft of their property.”
+++++

No but being a slum lord that repeatedly violated By-Laws, Fire Code, Building Code, Health Code FOR DECADES and then fought the fines levied against them……does justify the seizure of their property.

———————————

Ok, possibly… slumlords do provide a valuable service to people nobody else wants to deal with. There are many sides to every story.

The absolutely unacceptable action is a municipal government presuming they can both expropriate and set a value of $1 rather than fair market value.

First they came for the slumlords and I didn’t protest because I wasn’t a slumlord…

#146 Sail Away on 11.15.19 at 3:20 pm

#136 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.15.19 at 12:54 pm
@Sail Away
“Being a neglectful owner can never justify theft of their property.”
+++++

I suggest you Go live in one of the DTES “hotels” for a month and report back.

I would but apparently the elevators dont work…

————————-

So climb the stairs, you wuss. You’re only paying about $50. What other amenities do you also feel entitled to?

#147 SoggyShorts on 11.15.19 at 4:19 pm

#146 Sail Away on 11.15.19 at 3:20 pm
#136 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.15.19 at 12:54 pm
@Sail Away
“Being a neglectful owner can never justify theft of their property.”
+++++

I suggest you Go live in one of the DTES “hotels” for a month and report back.

I would but apparently the elevators dont work…

————————-

So climb the stairs, you wuss. You’re only paying about $50. What other amenities do you also feel entitled to?
*********
To be fair, letting one rip in the stairwell doesn’t have the same effect as in a crowded elevator…

#148 Sail Away on 11.15.19 at 10:30 pm

#62 Lost…but not leased on 11.14.19 at 8:18 pm
#41 Sail Away on 11.14.19 at 6:3
==========================

QUOTE:

VANCOUVER — City council has voted to seize control of two derelict hotels in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside after a lawyer for the property owners warned the municipality it is exposing itself to the risk of litigation by expropriating them for $1 each.

QUOTE:

A teary-eyed Coun. Jean Swanson, who has spent years advocating for the people of Downtown Eastside, made the motion to vote for expropriation, calling it a “moral decision.”

—————————————

Moralists are the worst. ISIS is another other group that feels absolutely justified by moral imperative.