Losers, Part deux

Ben’s a scientist. Maybe a cowboy, too. Not sure. But he’s astute, accomplished and fully integrated into the pipeline business in Edmonton as a senior guy. Earlier today he sent this to me. Ouch.

I have spoken with dozens of business people all over Alberta. The level of sentiment for separation is higher than ever. What used to be a whispered and radical idea, is out in the open and not considered radical at all, rather almost mainstream.

My guess is that the Alberta Government is first going to try to negotiate a new transfer arrangement. It may also ask for a specific mandate to do so in the form of a referendum. If the rest of Canada does not negotiate seriously, there will be a second referendum. We will have a simple question and we will be gone. The negotiations will be pretty simple, we will do what we want to do and the ROC can agree or not, but we will go.

The very serious people I have talked to assume that if we do go, we will use the U.S. dollar for our currency and hire them to handle our defence. We will get a pipeline through the U.S. and turn off flow east and west as part of our negotiations. It is not going to be pretty.

I am astonished by the level of acrimony here. Lots of people would sort of joke about separation, but not that seriously. Now, I have friends on the bench who are talking about how to do it. No one alive in Alberta has forgotten the NEP. This is worse, because not only are we not getting world price, we can’t get it to market at any price.

The fallout from Monday night continues. It intensifies. Trudeau’s win, the climate change agenda, the pipeline bottleneck, the rise of the BQ, Calgary’s 30% office vacancy rate and the faltering Alberta economy have tipped the scales. The last 48 hours have birthed astonishing rebellion in the minds of otherwise sane people. East vs West. AB against the greenies. Kenney tackling Trudeau.

Did you catch the comments section of this pathetic blog yesterday? The inmates are fomenting open rebellion. Here were some classic cowboy, die-in-my-boots-not-on-my-knees words of defiance (and a little idiocy):

If Ontario attempts military action on Alberta, here’s how it will go. They will be badly damaged by the time they get through Manitoba, and they will regret having tried to go through Saskatchewan. Then winter will set in, and they will starve. And so will Ontario because of course the gas would be shut off. After that all the Alberta hunters with their 4×4’s and guns will be waiting for them. The idea that Ontario could send a bunch of Antifa, Millennials, and transgenders to Alberta and win a war is preposterous. If those folks you are hoping to sign up actually do, which they won’t. After the humiliating defeat, you would have to hope we have no reason to come back and take over Ottawa. Which we won’t, actually. Ottawa can rot in hell. We don’t want it. It’s a place of rot. Don’t forget. Modern war is simple. If you have the oil, you win. Now go charge up your iPhone on Alberta energy.

Whoa. This is sedition, n’est-ce pas? How did it happen?

Well, the Transmountain pipeline fiasco is a big part of it. Delay, delay, delay. So is the carbon tax, being fought bitterly by several provinces. The entire climate change agenda the T2 Libs have adopted is seen as utterly urban, antithetic to Alberta’s interests, and likely bogus. World oil prices still less than 50% of what they were a decade ago have crippled. Canadian crude has suffered for lack of pipe. As a result, Alberta’s been in a semi-recession now for years. House prices peaked long ago and have languished since. Calgary’s gleaming commercial core has been hollowed out. That flirtation with the NDP and Rachel Notley sure didn’t help. And now Albertans feel shut out of a government dominated by transgender snowflake unarmed moister pantywaists from Mississauga while Quebec nationalists swarm into the House of Commons to promote their own interests.

Okay, but what of this Wexit talk, this session chatter? Is it even credible?

Let’s review the rules, put in place following the near-death experience of the 1995 Quebec referendum. That’s when the House of Commons framed The Clarity Act, setting out the terms under which Canada would enter into negotiations following a referendum vote in a rebel territory.

Here are the conditions:

  • MPs have the power to decide whether a proposed referendum question is ‘clear’ and unequivocally about secession before the public vote;
  • The House of Commons has the power to determine whether or not a clear majority expressed itself following any referendum vote.
  • All provinces and First Nations must be part of the negotiations.
  • The House of Commons can override a referendum decision if it any of the above conditions are not met.
  • The secession of a province would require an amendment to the Constitution to be legal.

And this is how the Canadian constitution gets amended: required is the approval of both the Senate and House of Commons and of the legislative assemblies of at least two thirds of all provinces representing at least 50% of the population. Good luck with that.

Two conclusions: Alberta will never leave because it can’t, unless it shoots its way out. And, more immediately, our current prime minister has a crisis on his hands.

 

331 comments ↓

#1 earthboundmisfit on 10.23.19 at 11:05 am

No shit, Sherlock. Gotta get Butts and Telford outta there. “None so blind as will not see”.

#2 baloney Sandwitch on 10.23.19 at 11:07 am

Its a bunch of malarkey with faux rage. Its all about money. Pompous populism being exported from the US. The real problem is the price of oil. There is too much supply and the demand is going down.

#3 Phylis on 10.23.19 at 11:07 am

I can hear it already, But, but, but, hm hmm hmm, umm, um, er, I’m working forward for all Canadians.
Gerry will have to get a whopper of a speech finalized by 1pm.

#4 Mr. Frugal on 10.23.19 at 11:10 am

Garth, your argument is that the west will not separate because they can’t. While this may be true, what does it say about a country that is content to subjugate one region for the benefit of another? Quebec has been freeloading off the rest of Canada for decades. They want the benefits of Alberta oil and at the same time they want to stomp Alberta into the ground.

#5 Daniel Bouchard on 10.23.19 at 11:16 am

Sadly countries aren’t built with paperwork and oppressors rules, they are built with the blood, sweat and tears of oppressed people. Look at history. And with that have a nice day.

#6 Drill Baby Drill on 10.23.19 at 11:17 am

“Alberta hunters with their 4×4’s and guns will be waiting for them” I am insulted you forgot truck Nutz !!

#7 Land Locked on 10.23.19 at 11:18 am

I wonder where and when our Fort Sumter will happen.

#8 John on 10.23.19 at 11:18 am

Unless it shoots its way out or simply has USA flex while looking their way. What is the Canadian Military of professional welfare queens gonna do about it? What -ism will they apply to Alberta in an attempt to shame their way out of the situation?

#9 Drill Baby Drill on 10.23.19 at 11:21 am

If anyone thinks this unity crises will fade away just look at Blanchette’s comments last night about Alberta pipelines. The BQ is really stirring things up just at the time when Alberta and Sask are in a very foul mood. This does not bode well for Selfie Boy nor Canada.

#10 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.23.19 at 11:21 am

It’s hard to feel sorry for Albertans who have two F-150s in their driveway.
My advise:
Live within your means and start diversyfying your economy (and this does not mean produce more beef)

#11 the Jaguar on 10.23.19 at 11:31 am

Those conditions:
-The question can be clearly framed. Hire experts.
-Election results provide a clue to this one. But even if there wasn’t a majority ( which I suspect would be the case), the referendum itself would be hugely damaging.
-Yes, the process could be transparent and would need to be inclusive. Those that would lead the process are presumably not children and Alberta is very good organizationally.
-Got it. Feds are watching. Sounds like a game of chicken or something.
-Got it. See above re: damage to national reputation.

I’m not a fan of this separation talk. My great grandparents didn’t arrive in this province to have their descendants throw in the towel when everyone still has food on the table and opportunity to work and get ahead. We are still moving forward here, just look around at the construction if in doubt. There are some seriously crazy people in Alberta who promote this crap all the time. They need to cool their jets. Just turn off the taps to the west coast so the fuel dries up in Anacortes, Washington and wait for a call from big daddy south of the border. Could be more effective and expedient. Don’t do it under any ‘threat’, just say we blew a gasket of some kind and its a maintenance issue. Sometimes you have to tell a fib.
I wish peak oil would hurry up and arrive instead. It would fix all the non stop baffle gab. If fossil fuel goes into decline and the costs associated with it skyrocket, it will rivet attention off issues like separation. The ultimate reality check. The impact on food, services, employment, etc would stun. All this focus on keeping cars on the road by making them electric misses the bigger issues of industrial farming and food supply, globalization and trade, and how much your kiwi fruit and bananas are going to cost when it becomes too cost prohibitive to ship them around the world. Hopefully everyone kept great grandma’s canning recipes and is ready to embrace the 100 mile diet and can live without avocado toast. The word recession will be replaced by the word ‘contraction’.
Only October 23rd today and as one looks west there is an astonishing amount of snow in the mountains. Flood mitigation and keeping ones powder dry could take everyone’s attention off the current bickering. Mercy.

#12 Thedood on 10.23.19 at 11:33 am

“And this is how the Canadian constitution gets amended: required is the approval of both the Senate and House of Commons and of the legislative assemblies of at least two thirds of all provinces representing at least 50% of the population. Good luck with that.”

I hardly think AB’s economically strapped populace gives a damn what the rest of the country “requires” to leave. Causal to AB’s recession has been Ottawa’s stupid policies and indifference. I lived in AB for nearly 40 years and I can tell you the referendum to leave would be within its own border, the rest of Canada would have no say.

You’re absolutely correct – Mr Socks does have a crisis on his hands.

#13 PeterfromCalgary on 10.23.19 at 11:33 am

Canada is not a nation nor is it a democracy!

It is a centrally controlled empire which uses the guise of democracy to pretend to be legitimate. Sure everybody gets a vote but Ontario and Quebec have the votes to decide who rules the rest of the empire. So effectively Canada is a dictatorship for everyone outside of those two provinces.

Empires fail because they become too expensive to maintain with military force. This is the fate of the Canadian empire. Canada deserves to fail!

#14 A Ford F 150 on 10.23.19 at 11:37 am

Life is like a box of water.

#15 gattaca on 10.23.19 at 11:40 am

As a shareholder in the past of Canadian oil stocks, I have to the say the industry also blew it.

When times were good, they didn’t think of diversifying their client base by building pipelines to the West Coast and supplying the East.

They also didn’t pay too much regard about building relationships with First Nations and environmental concerns. Now these issues have bit them in the ass.

It was basically short-term focus combined with tunnel vision. So, they didn’t see and/or didn’t want to accept times were changing.

#16 Captain Uppa on 10.23.19 at 11:45 am

It seems I riled some feathers with my words of positivism (see Losers, Part Un comment section).

My apologies for suggesting the channeling of rage into good deeds and productivity within one’s immediate community from the throne upon which I sit in Toronto.

#17 Captain Uppa on 10.23.19 at 11:48 am

Auto-correct got me, I meant *words of positivity

#18 Les Deux Solitudes on 10.23.19 at 11:51 am

Day after election… Husky lays of hundreds…. SNC/Lavalin stock jumps 14%…..

The amazing thing is….. despite $15B a year in bribery Quebec thinks it gets a raw deal financially !!.. Quebec is basically separate already .. AB just needs to do the same

There is zero correlation between the Lavalin and Husky news. And you know it. – Garth

#19 Dups on 10.23.19 at 11:58 am

US would be happy to get their hands on Alberta. Next would be the bridge to Alaska. BC and Yukon! awesome…
Global warming might speed this process too.

#20 whiplash on 10.23.19 at 12:04 pm

Pipelines in the ground today.

117,000 km’s of large diameter 4″—48″

25,000 km’s of feeder lines

450,000 km’s local distribution lines 1/2″—6″

250,000 km’s of gathering lines 4″—12″

And twinning the Trans Mountain is a problem or building Energy East. Panic propaganda by the UN backed climate extremists that’s the problem.

#21 Yukon Elvis on 10.23.19 at 12:05 pm

Alberta could stop sending tax dollars to Ottawa. Then the talks could begin.

It doesn’t send anything. The funds come from tax revenues, person and corporate, royalties etc. – Garth

#22 Thomas Gabriel on 10.23.19 at 12:05 pm

“There is zero correlation between the Lavalin and Husky news. And you know it. – Garth”

Husky is indeed correlated with the results of the election. The exact timing no – but the fact that at some point it became clear the CPC would not gain a majority was the catalyst for Husky’s decision. I advise US investors and just saw a 9 figure deal fall through for the same reason. Investors are willing to absorb macro and commodity risk, but one thing they won’t touch is political risk in Canada. I hope voters know they just drove away billions of dollars of investment. But even if they knew, they probably wouldn’t care. Something something the 1%.

#23 Sandy Wagnard on 10.23.19 at 12:13 pm

The biggest fears of the Liberals, NDP, Green party, left leaning socialists is when the conservatives were in power for almost 10 years and the western provinces were gaining control and a faster population growth.

If Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba gained another population 1.5 to 2 million over the next 15 to 20 years that would make them more of a problem for Liberals and other lefties.

#24 It's Treason Then on 10.23.19 at 12:15 pm

“unless it shoots its way out”

and so the die is cast

#25 AlaSaskMan on 10.23.19 at 12:15 pm

If the ‘petro-patriots’ of AlaSaskMan are so desperate to get their petro-products to market, why not get together, pool their pennies, and build their OWN pipeline to tidewater along the Rail corridor from Winnipeg to Churchill Man?

#26 AGuyInVancouver on 10.23.19 at 12:24 pm

That’s Wexit, like WeakS#it, right?

Stop the snivelling Alberta. Your economy is in yet another bust period because you rely too much on one thing and the Saudis decided to crash the price of it. Add to that you’re a high-cost and high-emission producer of that product. Whining about separatism isn’t going to change that.

#27 A1 on 10.23.19 at 12:28 pm

Dear Garth

Many of us feel there is only one truly national party and that is the Liberals due to the French issue. This is making Canada difficult to govern and weakens Canadian democracy.

If Alberta were to separate the US would be involved like dirty shirts as the US is every where else interfering so why would we be special? Any changes would require US blessing.

My feeling is the US does not want Canada to break apart but what would motivate them is not oil but water. The idea of flowing the Peace into the Colorado basin would be of interest to the US. Canadians are likely against this but Albertans might be more open to southward water flows.

#28 Joseph R. on 10.23.19 at 12:30 pm

“#9 Drill Baby Drill on 10.23.19 at 11:21 am
If anyone thinks this unity crises will fade away just look at Blanchette’s comments last night about Alberta pipelines. The BQ is really stirring things up just at the time when Alberta and Sask are in a very foul mood. This does not bode well for Selfie Boy nor Canada.”

From his speech, he only talks about the pipeline going through Quebec, not the TMX expansion project. East Energy is still much a “pie in the sky” project, no matter what Kenney promises you.

Currently, TMX is the project that needs to be completed to quarrel Alberta angst; it the one that MAY LOWER the WCS/WTI price differential.

#29 Yukon Elvis on 10.23.19 at 12:32 pm

#21 Yukon Elvis on 10.23.19 at 12:05 pm
Alberta could stop sending tax dollars to Ottawa. Then the talks could begin.

It doesn’t send anything. The funds come from tax revenues, person and corporate, royalties etc. – Garth
……………………………….

So change the tax forms and send to Province of Alberta. Make all checks payable to Province of Alberta. Then we can talk.

#30 Stone on 10.23.19 at 12:37 pm

As Nelson from the Simpson’s would say as he points at Alberta:

Haha!

#31 Sold Out on 10.23.19 at 12:46 pm

The commenter cited above by Garth better hope that any CAF sent to quell rebellion in Alta. is made up of women and senior citizens; Alta, Sask, and Man. are certainly well-equipped to beat them senseless.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3259656/alberta-3rd-highest-province-for-rate-of-intimate-partner-violence-report/

#32 Steven Rowlandson on 10.23.19 at 12:50 pm

The solution to the separatism problem is obvious, abolish the provincial level of government. It will be cheaper, simpler and make it impossible for provinces and territories to pretend to be sovereign independent countries as some have fantasies of doing. Local and social stuff can be handled by district, township,municipal and county governments. Alberta’s threat to jump into bed with the American’s is un acceptable unless those interested in such silliness emigrate and leave the territory of Alberta within Canada. We can always send homeless settlers out west to occupy abandoned homes and businesses left by Yankee wannabees.

#33 Drill Baby Drill on 10.23.19 at 12:51 pm

#27 Joseph R

Wrong! Blanchette on CBC news stated just this morning that they will oppose ALL oil pipelines including TMX.

#34 marcus on 10.23.19 at 12:51 pm

Just keep it up Ontario and Quebec. Keep putting down the West. Call them every name in the book. Garth says separation is a myth short of “shooting their way out”. The truth is that when the folk decide to go it is time to go and they will go. Participation is voluntary in govt structures. That is the real truth that “poiliticians” never want the folk to realize. Just watch this clip of Trudeau again. Let his words sink in Canada. The West will split off from Greater Canada. It is inevitable under the current regime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vAlz1at_OU

I am not T2 apologist, but the video is not translated correctly. It’s also ancient. In any case, the rules of separation are crystal. That’s your path. – Garth

#35 not 1st on 10.23.19 at 1:07 pm

The best way for Ab to separate is to get Quebec to do it. Cut them off from the welfare and stop the oil. Line 9B is right into Quebec. Turn it off let them bring in some more Saudi tankers and then dust off the Clarity Act out.

The referendum forces negotiations. It cannot be simply ignored. And if negotiations are unsuccessful which they will be the path to separation is assured.

In the meantime lots we can do to firewall off from ROC.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/smith-alberta-heres-how-to-stop-being-a-national-doormat

Unworthy of debate. – Garth

#36 Joseph R. on 10.23.19 at 1:14 pm

#32 Drill Baby Drill on 10.23.19 at 12:51 pm
#27 Joseph R

Wrong! Blanchette on CBC news stated just this morning that they will oppose ALL oil pipelines including TMX.

—————————————————

I am using this (French) speech as reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EhBbdTpMC4&t=290s

If he made another speech and mentioned TMX in it, then you know something that I don’t.

#37 baloney Sandwitch on 10.23.19 at 1:14 pm

Alberta rednecks dreaming of peak oil are tripping. Oil prices are in secular decline – reason, too much supply, the rise of alternatives and the imminent climate reckoning. Once mars-a-lago is underwater no one will be arguing.

#38 Alberta Nomad on 10.23.19 at 1:16 pm

Whoa, what’s happening in my home province?!?

Canada needs to strengthen inter-provincial trade and cooperation — not blow it up with separatist rhetoric.

#39 Al on 10.23.19 at 1:25 pm

DELETED

#40 Caleb Landry on 10.23.19 at 1:26 pm

Alberta is like a Hooter’s restaurant. Fake tits and fast money. When it dries up people cry wolf. The world is moving off oil. It’s a painful endeavour for everyone. The sooner the Albertans start using their creative energy to carve out new industries for the future the better off they’ll be. If they leave, 20 years from now they may wish they stayed in, chances are transfer payments for the next 100 years will be flowing in their direction, not the other way around…

#41 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 1:27 pm

#10 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.23.19 at 11:21 am
It’s hard to feel sorry for Albertans who have two F-150s in their driveway.
My advise:
Live within your means and start diversyfying your economy (and this does not mean produce more beef)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am not an Albertan, but I have family there and fully support them.

You I find to be deplorable…

#42 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 1:29 pm

#29 Stone on 10.23.19 at 12:37 pm
As Nelson from the Simpson’s would say as he points at Alberta:

Haha!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Keep it up! This is exactly what helps to motivate the base…

#43 SunDays on 10.23.19 at 1:29 pm

Time to reread this piece written after the April elections in Alberta. The events in motion seem to be accelerating:
http://zeihan.com/albertas-tryst-with-destiny/

#44 marcus on 10.23.19 at 1:31 pm

“I am not T2 apologist, but the video is not translated correctly. It’s also ancient. In any case, the rules of separation are crystal. That’s your path.” – Garth

There is a similar clip in English where Trudeau flat out states that Quebecker are superior to the rest of Canada and that is why they rule. Sure it was from a few years ago but when you are a Trudeau this IS how you think. Also “rules of separation” when it comes down to it are just paper. If the folk decide to separate they will do it. Then the ball is in the court of Ottawa. What can they do? The country is vast, the police and military are few. It’s a mess but it was entirely predictable.

#45 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 1:32 pm

#36 baloney Sandwitch on 10.23.19 at 1:14 pm
Alberta rednecks dreaming of peak oil are tripping. Oil prices are in secular decline – reason, too much supply, the rise of alternatives and the imminent climate reckoning. Once mars-a-lago is underwater no one will be arguing.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I take it you are hypocrisy-free and use absolutely no fossil fuels then, whatsoever (only travel by bicycle, heat with electricity proven to be 100% carbon free, purchase nothing made with plastic, etc)?

#46 IHCTD9 on 10.23.19 at 1:45 pm

#30 Sold Out on 10.23.19 at 12:46 pm

The commenter cited above by Garth better hope that any CAF sent to quell rebellion in Alta. is made up of women and senior citizens; Alta, Sask, and Man. are certainly well-equipped to beat them senseless.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3259656/alberta-3rd-highest-province-for-rate-of-intimate-partner-violence-report/
___

Just a quick tip or two:

1. Intimate partner does not mean Woman or Senior

2. Family violence does not mean Men beating up Women or Seniors.

3. By your own link, the largest demographic for victims of physical and sexual abuse are Males under the age of 15.

#47 Brett in Calgary on 10.23.19 at 1:45 pm

Garth – didn’t I just read one of your articles about the subpar quality of posters? Then you go and pitch this topic (granted it is hot right now)! You ARE a sucker for punishment!

I tend to agree with #11 the Jaguar in that there are better ways to deal with this problem. That said, I no longer vote in Federal elections because it is over before it leaves Ontario. Simple math.

#48 Keith on 10.23.19 at 1:48 pm

@ #45 Past the Peak

The inventor of the lightbulb worked by gaslight. Change takes time. How many cars were on the road in 1900, and then how many in 1913. The hypocrisy argument in this context is beyond tired.

#49 IHCTD9 on 10.23.19 at 2:02 pm

#40 Caleb Landry on 10.23.19 at 1:26 pm

…The world is moving off oil. It’s a painful endeavour for everyone.
____

Not really all that painful.

Because that’s not actually happening.

Global oil consumption goes up pretty much every year. We’ll crack 100 million bbls per day consumed for the first time ever this year.

#50 Duffy on 10.23.19 at 2:03 pm

How strong a number is the correlation between a liberal win and SNC stock increase keeping in mind the liberals don’t have a majority in committees anymore.

#51 Slim on 10.23.19 at 2:06 pm

These Wexit guys have been watching too many Clint Eastwood movies. Just more delusional thinking.

#52 Wait There on 10.23.19 at 2:13 pm

Mr. Socks has a real problem now that signalling won’t fix.

I’d bet out current Prime Minister doesn’t understand how much energy one barrel of oil contains and what it takes to replace that. If the alarmists only knew, then we’d have a better discussion about what realistically can be done about climate change. The one thing he knows is that oil is BLACK.

I was driving on the highway this morning. If people REALLY cared about climate change, they’d all be driving smaller 4 cylinder cars. Government doesn’t need to do this the ROC does. If they don’t then they are all hypocrites.

The constitution talk is all nonsense. Why? If they desire to leave, then they won’t adhere to it. Does a criminal rob a store and follow rules?

It’s like a divorce. They were wed for better or worse. But a divorce ensues and accepted when it is for the worse. The Constitution was supposed to be fair. Alberta no longer sees it that way. They want a divorce.

#53 IHCTD9 on 10.23.19 at 2:14 pm

#42 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 1:29 pm
#29 Stone on 10.23.19 at 12:37 pm
As Nelson from the Simpson’s would say as he points at Alberta:

Haha!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Keep it up! This is exactly what helps to motivate the base…
___

I’m thinking Stone ain’t got the grey matter to figure that one out…

#54 Mr. Frugal on 10.23.19 at 2:20 pm

There is zero correlation between the Lavalin and Husky news. And you know it. – Garth

——————————————————————

Lavalin and Husky are unrelated. But both are related to the reelection of Trudeau and everyone knows it.

#55 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.23.19 at 2:28 pm

This is what Climate Change Hysteria has wrought. And make no mistake it is hysteria.

A religion.

A cult.

#56 BillyBob on 10.23.19 at 2:32 pm

“Two conclusions: Alberta will never leave because it can’t, unless it shoots its way out.”

And this has never happened anywhere else ever? And it couldn’t in Canada because…? The constant theme of this blog is that no one is special, nothing is that different this time. As one with with family from Caracas I can say with certainty that the good citizens of Venezuela never believed that things would become as desperate as they have. We are superior to them because…?

It does seem that things are entering uncharted territory (for Canada). I don’t get the sense that this is the redneck separatism of decades past. I speak as someone outside the Canada bubble without a horse in this race.

I definitely observe that one of the many factors fuelling the white hot rage is the sheer dismissiveness expressed by those not affected in the slightest. Witness the comments about “fossil fuel in decline”, and the conceit that the “world is moving off oil”. Which is laughable in either its ignorance or naiveté. Every day I go to work I burn hundreds of tons of fossil fuels moving people vast distances. Every week my LinkedIn box is filled with recruiters begging me to come to China, Africa, Vietnam, and on and on to ply my experience to meet the insatiable demand for pilots and air travel.

There are no viable battery-powered commercial aircraft. There are no solar-powered cargo ships. The internet does not run on wind power. Alternative energy sources are nowhere near being able to supplant oil, and that is not to lack of will or policy as the Greens will have you believe. There is simply nothing other than nuclear that has the same calorific value of fossil fuels to power our current way of life.

That is not to say that things aren’t changing, but it isn’t as remotely close to wholesale change as is being portrayed. Alberta has something to sell to the world, and thwarting their ability to do so is a massive, fatal mistake for the ROC. Ideologies are one thing but they can never compete with people motivated by the fear of losing out.

As one quote astutely said, now go recharge your iPhone on Alberta energy.

NOTICE: Any comment promoting, forecasting or attempting to justify a civil war or armed conflict in Canada from this point forward will be deleted. – Garth

#57 Remembrancer on 10.23.19 at 2:35 pm

#33 Drill Baby Drill on 10.23.19 at 12:51 pm
#27 Joseph R

Wrong! Blanchette on CBC news stated just this morning that they will oppose ALL oil pipelines including TMX.
————————————————
Why are you spending so much energy then on the bloc heads 32 seats in a parliament of 338? Blanchette by definition is going to oppose anything that impacts Quebec ridings he represents and cheer for what benefits them while being a general pain in the ass whenever he feels like it for the rest of us… This includes things like retaining federal spending in the province for things like ship building and aerospace contracts. His voters will weigh the benefits and impacts of this strategy and decide, just like last time the BQ got kicked to the curb and this time where they made gains…

Setting him up as the national energy bogey man is just fluffing his aura… Suncor and Valero are not leaving PQ any time soon and Quebec is not a place that pretends it doesn’t have major resource extraction and processing in its economy… They also don’t mind doing business – “hello / bonjour”…

Again, at the risk of discussing facts over the din of hysterics and foreign social media agitators, here’s where the oil comes from by province and where processed…

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/nrgsstmprfls/qc-eng.html

Chew on it a bit – we are in this together…

#58 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.23.19 at 2:38 pm

If the Climate Changer Emergency™ was real, the PTB would implement the following on a world wide basis immediately:

1) Cease and desist all commercial airline traffic.
2) All container ships would be immediately called back to port and mothballed.
3) All personal transportation would be off limits. Mass transit only.
4) A massive nuclear power plant program would be implemented in order to replace any/all fossil fuel plants.
5) All pork and beef production would be halted.
6) Any and all entertainment events would be banned.

I’m sure there’s more. But none of this has happened. Why?

I think we are hitting new lows around here. – Garth

#59 PeterfromCalgary on 10.23.19 at 2:39 pm

Alberta and Canada need to have a calm and rational discussion about how to proceed with Alberta separation.

Canada does not work for Alberta and it is time for us to leave.

Goodbye Canada.

#60 James on 10.23.19 at 2:39 pm

#163 Smoking Man on 10.23.19 at 1:19 am

Hey James, Mf

I’m living in Trump’s America.
You are Bend over, T2 is coming for your last cent then your spent toilet paper when toilet paper can not be found in the stores. Welcome to socialism..
I’m safe. Saw it long time ago. Alien DNA thing.
Enjoy this tune.
https://youtu.be/c5BL4RNFr58
______________________________________
You are pathetic Old Man, you must be wonderful to be around you cranky old diaper soiled curmudgeon. Have you not anything positive ever to say?
I am not moving back to the USA as I, unlike you have family, children, parents and many relatives here. We are a family and families stick together through thick and thin. We will eventually unload T2 and his cronies, politics is a cycle, one day your it and the next day your shit. Garth knows all about cycles of politics call him for an update on how this political stuff works.
Besides the crime rate and homelessness is your area is staggering. I do not want to have to go around with a concealed weapon, constantly looking over my shoulder. I like my freedom here without a hot piece of iron in my belt!

#61 Shawn Allen on 10.23.19 at 2:39 pm

Alberta Transfer payments?

#21 Yukon Elvis on 10.23.19 at 12:05 pm
Alberta could stop sending tax dollars to Ottawa. Then the talks could begin.

It doesn’t send anything. The funds come from tax revenues, person and corporate, royalties etc. – Garth

******************************
Right, the Alberta government writes no cheques and sends no money to Ottawa but does cash cheques and receive money.

The so-called transfer payments are from federal personal and corporate income taxes collected in Alberta in excess of what is spent in Alberta. I don’t think the feds collect any royalty payments.

I’d like to see an update on that net $20 billion figure. Must be a lot of child tax credits coming to Albertan’s given the younger population here.

I believe TMX is actually quietly getting built as of today. Let us stay calm and watch for progress there.

#62 James on 10.23.19 at 2:46 pm

#41 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 1:27 pm

#10 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.23.19 at 11:21 am
It’s hard to feel sorry for Albertans who have two F-150s in their driveway.
My advise:
Live within your means and start diversyfying your economy (and this does not mean produce more beef)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am not an Albertan, but I have family there and fully support them.

You I find to be deplorable…
_________________________________________
We need Alberta and they need us. Alberta pumps oil out of the ground but the infrastructure and equipment comes from other places like Ontario!
We sure as hell would be worse off without Alberta.

#63 Matsebula on 10.23.19 at 2:48 pm

Garth, good summary: ‘And now Albertans feel shut out of a government dominated by transgender snowflake unarmed moister pantywaists from Mississauga while Quebec nationalists swarm into the House of Commons to promote their own interests.’ Add Saskatchewanians to that list, and you are more on the money.

That said, you are dangerously underestimating how livid people are out here. People aren’t angry and afraid, they are incandescent with rage and ready to do something about it. Albertans don’t care about Queensberry rules. Jason Kenney might be a Federalist, but he is a rare fella in these parts these days. This is the rest of Canada screwing over the West and laughing while it happens.

Your boy from Edmonton is correct. Serious people are starting to plan for this and I believe that Alberta and SK (at minimum, maybe others…) will find a way to make this happen. If you can join (1905) you can leave, doubt that at your own peril.

#64 Backbacon Crusader on 10.23.19 at 2:49 pm

Why do so many of these Wexiteers presume Manitoba wants to be part of this farce? It doesn’t. Even Pallister is on record as saying this talk is absurd.

#65 Land Locked on 10.23.19 at 2:50 pm

There were many people in the conservative party that thought the Reform party was a joke. Until the joke was on them. This is just the next step. Ignore it a your peril.

#66 Blacksheep on 10.23.19 at 2:56 pm

Caleb # 40,

“Fake tits and fast money”
———————————–
Wow…you say it like it’s a bad thing?

#67 april on 10.23.19 at 3:07 pm

#55 regarding climate change. Interesting, though I don’t know anything about these people. –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrejG-WI3

#68 oh bouy on 10.23.19 at 3:15 pm

Garth, this blog post sounds like something from infowars. faux rage from albertans reminds me of the faux rage from ontarians when harper became PM.
As much as you doomers think you want it, alberta and quebec aren’t going anywhere.
Although it would make things in the great white north way more interesting.

#69 oh bouy on 10.23.19 at 3:20 pm

@#60 James on 10.23.19 at 2:39 pm
#163 Smoking Man on 10.23.19 at 1:19 am

Hey James, Mf

I’m living in Trump’s America.
You are Bend over, T2 is coming for your last cent then your spent toilet paper when toilet paper can not be found in the stores. Welcome to socialism..
I’m safe. Saw it long time ago. Alien DNA thing.
Enjoy this tune.
https://youtu.be/c5BL4RNFr58
______________________________________
You are pathetic Old Man, you must be wonderful to be around you cranky old diaper soiled curmudgeon. Have you not anything positive ever to say?
I am not moving back to the USA as I, unlike you have family, children, parents and many relatives here. We are a family and families stick together through thick and thin. We will eventually unload T2 and his cronies, politics is a cycle, one day your it and the next day your shit. Garth knows all about cycles of politics call him for an update on how this political stuff works.
Besides the crime rate and homelessness is your area is staggering. I do not want to have to go around with a concealed weapon, constantly looking over my shoulder. I like my freedom here without a hot piece of iron in my belt!
______________________________________

^ both equally pathetic. ^

#70 leebow on 10.23.19 at 3:21 pm

This would be so hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. Looks like the 4×4 guy watches too many movies. Hunters on 4x4s… That’s something straight out of that weird Australian guy’s movies, or 300 spartans. Well, let me tell you something. I followed and observed a few civil wars. It’s not a 4×4 off road adventure. It’s a lot of very down to earth, primitive, senseless crap. Crime, murder, rape, orphans, refugees. Here is what you need to prepare for
1. Be liquid. You won’t be able to protect your property rights
2. Be ready to make a geographic separation between you and the conflict zone (at least 300-500 km)
3. Create a barrier between you and the hot zone, such as an ocean or a well protected international border. At least a mountain range. So that the freedom fighters do not come with an unexpected visit.
4. Do not think you’re a top dog, unless you want to be unpleasantly surprised
5. Do not underestimate how quickly your friendly neighbours will try to stab you with a pitchfork

There is a problem with the equalization payments that needs to be addressed. No question about that. It is surprising though, that some commenters think that separation will magically improve the economic situation.

It will not help with the pipelines. It will, if anything, reduce demand for the bitumen because of instability.

Another thing is that Alberta benefited greatly from the labour mobility. A lot of people moved to Alberta during the expansion, and went back to Eastern provinces after layoffs, instead of adding further pressure to Alberta’s social assistance system and the struggling labour market.

It would be a major major mess. Look at Brexit.

Say, Alberta gained independence. Things won’t stay the same minus Quebec. A whole lot of new challenges will appear.

But this is getting too long. I envy happy go lucky people.

#71 oh bouy on 10.23.19 at 3:22 pm

@#53 IHCTD9 on 10.23.19 at 2:14 pm
#42 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 1:29 pm
#29 Stone on 10.23.19 at 12:37 pm
As Nelson from the Simpson’s would say as he points at Alberta:

Haha!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Keep it up! This is exactly what helps to motivate the base…
___

I’m thinking Stone ain’t got the grey matter to figure that one out…

////////////////////////////////

now now children.

#72 Clayton604 on 10.23.19 at 3:24 pm

Garth… quite a few of these commentators seem overtly hostile and disrespectful to people of AB.. Are rules on your forum no longer being enforced?

“• Abusive, obscene or disrespectful commenters will not be published, and are subject to banning from this forum.”

Seems like a lot of people are jealous they did not move to AB to participate in the good times, and are now happy to sit smugly back and mock them during the bad times .. what a pitiful bunch your readers are..

#73 Bob on 10.23.19 at 3:26 pm

Garth, what is your take on the Vivian Krause documentary currently on YouTube “Over a Barrel” showing that climate change is not a concern but controlling Canadian resources is.

Haven’t see it, but this is interesting: “Vivian Krause is a controversial researcher and writer critical of Canada’s environmental charities. Krause claims American foundations are exercising foreign influence over Canada’s non-profit sector through their funding — even though most of her claims have been debunked. Krause uses her research to attack the credibility of environmental groups advocating for forest conservation, First Nations rights, climate action and democratic participation in natural resource development, especially the Alberta oilsands and proposed pipelines. Many of the environmental organizations attacked by Krause have been audited by the Canada Revenue Agency, something Krause takes credit for on her resume. Although she claims to be an independent researcher and writer, Krause has received significant funding in the form of speaking fees and honorariums from the oil, gas and mining industries with more than 90 per cent of her income in 2012, 2013 and 2014 coming from these sources.” – Garth

#74 Gary C on 10.23.19 at 3:32 pm

Do not underestimate the rage in Alberta, it is real and will only get worse after the Vivian Kruase video just became public, “Over A Barrel.”

Jason Kenney has to deliver, re more autonomy or he will be out.

#75 Drill Baby Drill on 10.23.19 at 3:34 pm

Alberta does need to have an amicable divorce.

#76 Bill Grable on 10.23.19 at 3:48 pm

I am starting to wonder if the World has tilted on it’s Axis. NOTHING makes sense to me.

I have enjoyed this Blog since it started, but I can’t read it anymore.

The comments are full of stuff that is nonsense from people with little in common with me.

I read the Posts and I just get depressed or angry.

So – thank you Mr. Turner….but I have had enough.

How you have managed to run this blog for a decade without going starkers is mind boggling.

Canada, a Country that so many people died for, in three Wars, is descending into an Orwellian nightmare.

#77 rosie on 10.23.19 at 3:48 pm

The situation in Alberta reminds me of the cod moratorium imposed back in the early 90’s. Newfoundland and Labrador suffered a severe economic blow when then minister Crosby had to shut down the main industry employing a large proportion of the population and destroying the lifestyle of an entire people. Crosby, in his usual way, stated correctly that he didn’t take all of the fish. The Liberal government in Ottawa does not set the price of oil. That is set on the world market. I lived in Ft. Mac almost 40 years ago. I said then and I say it again. Alberta must diversify its economy. Oil is going the way of coal. Newfoundland and Labrador are still with us even though many of its citizens now live in Alberta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inDgw8AWmiw

#78 Always Lurking on 10.23.19 at 3:52 pm

I think #59 PeterfromCalgary said it best. This whole “Canada” thing seems to be a very one-way street – and it’s not working for us (Alberta). I’ve been in bad relationships before and the best thing for both parties is usually to split. Can we talk about divorce like grown-ups? I only speak for myself, but I feel way more Albertan than I feel Canadian.

It’s not you, it’s me, Canada. Respectfully, I’d like to part ways.

The pathway is there, then. As I explained. – Garth

#79 The Greater Cauliflower on 10.23.19 at 3:53 pm

Crime/Fraud doesn’t pay ?

SNC-Lavalin stock price up $2.44 or 13.8% on Tuesday after Lib. win

#80 Shawn Allen on 10.23.19 at 4:05 pm

Who took the Cod?

#77 rosie on 10.23.19 at 3:48 pm
The situation in Alberta reminds me of the cod moratorium imposed back in the early 90’s

*****************************
I remember that Crosbie interview… a classic.

It always seemed to me that the cod disappeared not long after the time when the seal industry was greatly reduced due to protests over the killing of baby seals. Coincidence? And the cod never came back despite the cod fishing never really resumed? Is it possible that the increased seal population ate up the cod? Do seals even eat cod?

Google says yes!

“An adult seal eats up to 1.5 tonnes of fish a year—cod, white hake, winter skate, caplin, herring, haddock, shellfish, and other species.”

Yet, I have never seen anything in the news linking the virtual demise of the seal hunt to the cod never coming back. Or if the seal killing ceased after the cod were gone then the seals at least contributed to the cod stocks never recovering?

#81 the Jaguar on 10.23.19 at 4:07 pm

Garth: Why did you post the warning on Billy Bob’s post?
He comments were not remotely in that vein. He was just pointing out the facts. (?)

The warning stands. it was a convenient time to remind people of the obvious. – Garth

#82 Dogman01 on 10.23.19 at 4:10 pm

As a resident of Alberta, the last five years have been tough, but the obfuscation and delay to prevent amelioration of the situation has become an outrage.

A few quotes to spice up the spicy blog post…..

“Sovereignty is taken – not given” – Ataturk

“Politics = economics = financial consequences. Follow the puck.” – Garth Turner

When I was young and naïve, I believed that important people took positions based on careful consideration of the options. Now I know better. Much of what Serious People believe rests on prejudices, not analysis. And these prejudices are subject to fads and fashions.
– Paul Krugman

“Over the last several decades, under the federal and provincial leadership of all parties (whom we elected), we have put ourselves in a weakened position. We’ve made ourselves excessively dependent on the American economy and American security, and therefore, on the whims of the White House and its occupants. We’ve erected inter-provincial trade barriers, creating cartels that raise costs to consumers, lower productivity, and make our businesses lazy and unable to compete on the world stage. Structurally, we could not have designed a dumber economy if we tried.

#83 Gramps on 10.23.19 at 4:15 pm

“Unless they shoot their way out”
That’s not how most marriages end. One party just leaves

#84 AB Ski Bum on 10.23.19 at 4:22 pm

To the people saying oil is dead… you have no idea. There are no replacements available for oil. Despite billions being poured into R&D from the brightest people on the planet, nothing is close. That’s what really drives AB nuts, misinformation from people who really don’t have a clue how the global economy fuels itself.

On the other hand, Albertans are talking like we (the people of Alberta) are going through a great depression or something? Get over it, politics moves both ways. Right now it is moving against us but step back and look at the situation from a long term perspective. AB still has the highest GDP per capita in the country. We AB folks are not blame free. We need to approach debates with a balanced perspective not pitch forks and guns.

#85 FreeBird on 10.23.19 at 4:30 pm

I’m not sure how those who are transgender got pulled in? There are those who are truly transgender and good people just trying to live their life like the rest. Seems like the term was misused and misplaced somewhere along the line by those like political parties, ie Liberals. They haven’t done those in the community any favours.

#86 John on 10.23.19 at 4:31 pm

Garth,

It almost seems you want to encourage Alberta to separate?

I agree with many other commenters, the problem is their “1 asset strategy” in oil. Just like the fisheries in Newfoundland. They need to encourage diversified businesses and industries. Canadian oil cannot compete with Saudi oil. They can crash the price, and our bitumen is difficult to refine. It’s time to wake up. It sounds like a lot of people are rightfully angry, but are looking for something to blame and directing the anger in the wrong place.

The process is poorly understood, and so I explained it. No encouragement given (but a few of these guys can separate from this blog anytime they want). – Garth

#87 Linda on 10.23.19 at 4:39 pm

When people feel threatened they tend to react in extremes. The threat button gets pushed a lot in media. Drama sells.

Right now, a lot of what is going on has direct impact. Automation has been changing the world of work for decades. As for oil & gas, I don’t see those industries winding down any time soon. Even if we cease to use oil for transportation, we still use it to manufacture many goods that we use in daily life – plastics, carpeting, asphalt shingles etc. However new plant based technology is giving potentially greener, renewable alternatives to oil. I say potentially greener because a lot of those green technologies rely on old tech to both create & transport them to market. So that corn based plastic will biodegrade in the landfill, but a diesel truck hauled it to the store & almost certainly the machinery used to manufacture that bag required oil/gas to run.

Alberta is chock full of people who are highly educated & creative. It isn’t that they can’t learn new tech, nor is it that they can’t adapt. It is simply that the pace of change is disruptive on a personal & economic level. Someone laid off in O&G style (Knock knock, who’s there? Not you) may take years to find another position that pays so well, if ever BUT the cost of living doesn’t wait for that adjustment. Bill is due, pay now or else. In the meantime, the change to the new tech can take decades. When for instance is the last time you pulled up to a charging station for your electric car?

#88 Flanneur on 10.23.19 at 4:43 pm

Didn’t vote for Kenny but watch out, this guy is cleaver. I’m amazed at his skills playing the long game. Canada will see. Alberta has talented people and $ and patience has run dry. I’m no forecaster but I think the cracks are becoming obvious. Much has to do with Vancouver.

Each time I go to Van I’m amazed at how much people drive, how much they value their cars and exotic vacations. How quick they are willing to tear down a reasonable house to build a disposable one. It seems to me they are environmental fashionistas.

#89 Calgary on 10.23.19 at 4:45 pm

Canada has everything to succeed as a nation. Things that other countries can only dream of……clean unlimited supply of water, endless energy(fossil, renewables, hydro, etc.), huge chunk of arable land, plenty of potash, fresh air(Canada even exports compressed fresh air to China), wooded forests, food(fisheries, agriculture), etc.etc.
The list goes on….and on…

Canadians are born with silver spoons in their mouths. Yet they couldn’t seem to make it. Year after year of deficit spending and bickering between political parties and provinces. Canada lacks good quality leadership to steer the country. A simple task of building a pipeline to get fair market price for its oil also cannot be done. How about building more oil refineries for added value?

#90 Dogman01 on 10.23.19 at 4:48 pm

67 april on 10.23.19 at 3:07 pm

#55 regarding climate change. Interesting, though I don’t know anything about these people. –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrejG-WI3

————————————————–
Your link does not work or YouTube has banned the content…if banned it must be good.

————————————————

These people asserting fossil fuel is a dead phenomena (pun) when I understand Oil and Gas consumption is increasing in great leaps …

This is why Climate Change champions often get the “intruder’s welcome” , they are demonstrably fact challenged.

#91 AP on 10.23.19 at 4:48 pm

Like a departing province will respect the legality of a country it is trying to leave instead of its own. I always found the clarity act cute.

As for Alberta, I’ll be pretty happy to not pay for the ecological disaster they’ve building now for 40 years.

#92 the Jaguar on 10.23.19 at 4:51 pm

@ #84 AB Ski Bum

I like this comment. It’s all true. The moral outrage and indignation should be left to the Bloc in Quebec. They are world class in that regard.
Shackleton had it right. ‘By Endurance We Conquer’.
No province is tougher than Alberta. Once again time to ‘dig in’.

#93 Deplorable Dude on 10.23.19 at 4:53 pm

#86 John….”Canadian oil cannot compete with Saudi oil”

They can and they do. Canada provides the US with 43% of its oil imports….compared to 9% from Saudi Arabia.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

#94 Adam on 10.23.19 at 4:54 pm

Remember when the Liberals had an identity crisis over selling armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-still-shipping-lavs-to-saudi-arabia-despite-human-rights-concerns-1.4486276

I wonder where Saudi Arabia got the money:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/saudi-oil-imports-rise-canada-diplomacy-1.5096887

It seems we Canadians would rather give our money to a country that treats women like chattel and doesn’t mind chopping journalists into little pieces rather than build a pipeline and support our own economy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49826905

Not sure why nobody talks about this.

#95 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.23.19 at 4:57 pm

Garth sez:

“I think we are hitting new lows around here. – Garth”
—————————–
Why would you say that? Nothing short of massive lifestyle changes will “save the planet”. I know you’re smarter than our brainwashed Millennials and Gen Z’s like Gretchen who still think they’ll be lounging in their bedrooms thumbing their cell phones in perfect harmony with Gaia if only we got rid of nasty fossil fuels and cars.

#96 AB Ski Bum on 10.23.19 at 4:59 pm

# 89 “How about building more oil refineries for added value?”

You still have the problems with getting products to market, after it is refined.

#97 JSS on 10.23.19 at 4:59 pm

If there was succession, probably half of alberta would leave the province.

alberta gone looney.

#98 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.23.19 at 5:11 pm

@89 Calgary-

Great comment. I don’t get it either. Maybe it’s a failure of the “Greatest Generation” and Boomers as parents.

I honestly don’t know where we went off the rails.

#99 Niagara Region on 10.23.19 at 5:16 pm

Topic: Declining Real Estate Prices
I have a group of houses in the Niagara Region on a watchlist, since I’d like to buy a single-family home at some point. Today I noticed that one-half the houses on my watchlist dropped in price, anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000 each, literally overnight. Might this decline be a harbinger of things to come, given the election results?

#100 Borden Renter on 10.23.19 at 5:20 pm

I can’t believe there are people naive enough to believe the world will ever be “off oil”. Maybe when it runs out, but not before then. Just look at how our fertilizers and pesticides are made, applied, harvested, and then delivered to consumers. Then do the same with medical equipment, industry, consumer goods, etc. The “green revolution” of the 60’s wouldn’t have occurred without it, and a growing majority of the population of the planet depends on it to survive. We are essentially eating our oil to live, our entire way of modern life is based upon it, and there are enough Canadians who will vote and behave as if driving the speed limit will save the whales or something.

More taxes and more government certainly aren’t the answer. The only thing that will save our skins at this point is innovation. The least this useless government could do is step out of the way and let Alberta get the product the world needs out of the ground.

#101 Ustabe on 10.23.19 at 5:21 pm

If Alberta leaves Canada, BC is leaving as well… hello California and Washington State. “Cascadia” coming to a theatre near you!

I’d want the Yukon and NWT involved as well…that would be a fun country.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Story time. Years ago I was in Nigeria, sitting in the patio area of a cafe in a small village. Just up the road was a rag tag band of hoodlums manning a road block.

Armed, they were extracting money or something of value from the civilian vehicles, farmer’s ox carts, etc while most large trucks just blew past.

After a time up rolled the Nigerian military, parked, hopped out of the troop carrier type truck and using automatic weapons simply shot everyone at the road block, pushed the barricades apart with their military truck and left.

No one on the cafe patio even flinched. The waiter/host told us that was a normal operation, happened at least once a week, his attitude was life gets lost, life goes on.

I can only imagine that the folks manning the barricades were, at some point, sitting around talking about how unfairly they were being treated, how they would take matters into their own hands, etc.

The line is thinly drawn between the genius and the pawn…Kenny et all are no geniuses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My mother, father and brother are buried in Alberta. There is a 3 story office building in NE Calgary that bears the family name (not owned by us any longer), a significant majority of my fortune was accumulated in Alberta and I once owned a pick up truck. Except for residency I’m as Albertan as they come, the only exception being I’m old school PC, not this modern aberration that calls itself conservative.

I’d ask my Albertan friends to ponder just who you might be alienating with your current line of thought. School boy fantasies are one thing, constructive progress on your problems are another bag altogether…I’m taking best guesses on which tack works best long term.

#102 Renter's Revenge! on 10.23.19 at 5:21 pm

#23 Sandy Wagnard on 10.23.19 at 12:13 pm

If Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba gained another population 1.5 to 2 million over the next 15 to 20 years that would make them more of a problem for Liberals and other lefties.

==================================

Time to make some beh-behs!

#103 Zed on 10.23.19 at 5:37 pm

Why is Alberta mad at Ontario and Quebec about the lack of pipelines?

B.C. and its green ideas is harming the oil industry, like people don’t drive SVU, use boats and fly to Arizona/Hawaii.

Keystone XL as been delayed by the U.S.A. for more than 5 years, Enbridge is having a difficult time to get its Line 3 project going in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

If Alberta thinks that by separating the U.S.A will suddenly approve new pipelines, it is mistaken.

I live in Quebec, invest in the canadian oil industry and I want it to succeed. I much prefer to buy canadian oil than saudi oil.

Alberta has to be mad at the environmentalists who use oil everyday but think that they can operate without it.

#104 45north on 10.23.19 at 5:38 pm

And now Albertans feel shut out of a government dominated by transgender snowflake unarmed moister pantywaists from Mississauga while Quebec nationalists swarm into the House of Commons to promote their own interests.

Loyd Roberston on CTV, 5:40: “this is Justin Trudeau’s hour, he’s either going to make it or not.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1809871&playlistId=1.4649568&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1

He doesn’t have what it takes. For a little perspective, Abraham Lincoln had what it took – an unflinching resolve to preserve the Union. At the cost of his own life.

here’s a little snippet on the American Civil War:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter#Aftermath

#105 The Wet One on 10.23.19 at 5:42 pm

My fellow Albertans sure are a bunch of sore and I might add, crazy losers.

Pay the U.S. for defense?

Ontario’s army decamping from Ontario to come here? You are aware that the Canada’s army is right here in Alberta right? With an airbase at Cold Lake, right?

I apologize for the alarming outbursts of my ignorant fellow Albertans. They’re a bit, uh, enthusiastic about their grievances and it comes out a bit weird.

They’re good people though.

Seriously.

They really are.

Please, however, let’s get the facking pipeline built already? M’kay. It’s pretty important to us out here.

Thanks!

#106 Not So New guy on 10.23.19 at 5:44 pm

It looks like the greens prediction of a breakout in this election was about as accurate and their prediction regarding global warming.

Who knew?

#107 Yukon Elvis on 10.23.19 at 5:48 pm

Let’s review the rules, put in place following the near-death experience of the 1995 Quebec referendum. That’s when the House of Commons framed The Clarity Act, setting out the terms under which Canada would enter into negotiations following a referendum vote in a rebel territory.

Here are the conditions:

MPs have the power to decide whether a proposed referendum question is ‘clear’ and unequivocally about secession before the public vote;
The House of Commons has the power to determine whether or not a clear majority expressed itself following any referendum vote.
All provinces and First Nations must be part of the negotiations.
The House of Commons can override a referendum decision if it any of the above conditions are not met.
The secession of a province would require an amendment to the Constitution to be legal.
……………………..

Clarity Act hah. Passed by Jean Cretin and his Liberal running dogs. Did any provincial legislatures sign off on that? Did Quebec? I think not. A worthless pice of paper.

#108 Bob on 10.23.19 at 5:53 pm

“Alberta will never leave because it can’t, unless it shoots its way out.”

Really? I doubt it very much and we’ll never come close to such a situation. Albertans, no matter what, are the most loyal of most Canadians today.

Everyone, take a valium….

#109 SunShowers on 10.23.19 at 5:55 pm

“The very serious people I have talked to assume that if we do go, we will use the U.S. dollar for our currency and hire them to handle our defense.”

Oh my god, the precious, precious, naivete. As if everything would be this simple.

I really hope these “very serious people” don’t have anywhere important to go outside of Alberta for a couple of years while the new provisional government mints replacements for their invalid Canadian passports.

I also hope they don’t plan to rely on CPP, OAS, GIS, or any other programs or services provided by the Canadian government.

Something tells me these chowderheads haven’t thought that far ahead.

No different from the Quebec separatists. They want to free themselves from the burdens of being just one province that’s part of a country, but keep all the benefits.

#110 AB Boxster on 10.23.19 at 5:55 pm

Two conclusions: Alberta will never leave because it can’t, unless it shoots its way out – Garth

————————

Perhaps. Kind of like what is happening in Spain with Catalonia today. Spain will not let them have their independence. But don’t kid yourself, Catalonia will never remain part of Spain after how Spain has treated its people over the past few weeks.

When a region wants to leave, it’s just a matter of time.

#111 The real Kip (Ret) on 10.23.19 at 5:55 pm

I watched Prime Minister Trudeau today in his media Q&A and he said he intends to see Trans-mountain pipeline completed. The naysayers against Canada should be careful they don’t get kneecapped by Trudeau.

#112 PeterfromCalgary on 10.23.19 at 5:56 pm

Albertans let us calmly but enthusiastically work for independence!

As a independent nation Alberta would be able to lower overall taxes, increase services, balance the budget and expand the Heritage Fund by not subsidizing Quebec.

An independent Alberta would have more leverage to get pipelines built since we could turn off the taps or use other incentives without a hostile Judge interfering.

An independent Alberta will be a better for us and our children!

#113 Dazed and Confused on 10.23.19 at 5:59 pm

How about that. Albertans still blaming everyone else for their self-induced financial woes, after electing 40 years of provincial Conservative incompetence.

And now we’re slagging the Newfies now, are we?

That’s rich, really rich (and beyond pathetic).

I worked in the oil patch through twenty of the forty years of Alberta’s laughable PC dynasty. Don Getty, Ralph Klein, Ed Stelmach, Alison Redford. None of them could balance a cheque book without oil royalties to hide their fiscal incompetence.

Drayton Valley, Fox Creek , Valleyview, Grand Prairie, yadda, yadda.
(boom-town, ghost-town, boom-town, ghost-town, rinse and repeat).

For decades, Alberta had one of the lowest tax bases in the country, the highest per capita spending (conservative? oh, pulllease) and could have easily cornered the market in manufacturing, I/T, corporate head offices, etc., but, nooooo…… they blew it all away with nothing to show for it. The Alberta Heritage Trust fund? Good luck with that empty bottle.

Remember the 80’s bumper stickers? “Please God let there be another boom and I promise not to pi$$ it all away next time”. Conservative Rinse & Repeat for 40 years.

Former Alberta premier Jim Prentice was misquoted when he said, “Look in the mirror” to Albertans. What was really said was a true definition of insanity, “Look in the mirror for voting PC for forty years and expecting a different outcome every election.”

Kenney blaming anyone else for self-induced Alberta woes & low world oil prices is a bit of a stretch. That ship has sailed and ain’t never coming back.

Just like his provincial predecessors, Kenney has never been a true blue (c)onservative, just a true (C)onservative, a federal power broker who puts his lobbyists’ interests in front of the interests of the supposed average Albertans he claims to represent and fight for. An ex-federal eastern politician, who once flooded the Alberta landscape with cheap Temporary Foreign Workers, is no friend of the Alberta workin’ man.

And now Albertans recently showed the same signs of lunacy in returning that province to PC rule, much to the delight of Kenney’s power brokers and American health care lobbyists who are salivating at the return to the PC trough.

Next time, try electing someone who has actually changed a diaper in his life, not a bought-and-paid-for, cunning professional single politician, who lives in his mother’s basement. Or, at least elect a strong opposition to keep these self-serving, bought-and-paid-for hypocrites in check.

Still Feelling Wexitty, Alberta? Don’t let the barn door slam your butt on the way out (and be sure to take all your self-induced provincial debt with you).

#114 MF on 10.23.19 at 6:02 pm

Hi Alberta,

Ontario Millennial here.

A few things: A Conservative has been elected in my north GTA riding for many terms. I’m pro oil, pro pipeline and pro AB. Always have been.

The absolute hatred and vitriol being directed towards us in Ontario (or the rest of Canada) is dispicable. You’ve got allies all over the place. Don’t alienate them with your BS, US style us versus them politics. Be smart. Alberta will rise again, but the rest of us need to support it in the meantime.

MF

#115 Chris on 10.23.19 at 6:02 pm

“We will hire the Americans to handle our defence needs, and use the American dollar.” If that were to happen, the Americans would simply annex Alberta, and it would become part of the failing US empire. Totally naive to think otherwise.

#116 BlogDog123 on 10.23.19 at 6:03 pm

Well after that recent trans-border beer ruling with the supreme court, interprovincial trade barriers are alive and well…

So Alberta can have a Prince Rupert -> Train Traffic -> through our territory –>gum up the machine kind of “toll” for any traffic through its territory. Environmental tax per axle of trains. No more Christmas toys from China everyone ! Pay up, give us our pipeline or no more trains through BC back and forth to China…

#117 Re-Cowtown on 10.23.19 at 6:07 pm

#10 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.23.19 at 11:21 am
It’s hard to feel sorry for Albertans who have two F-150s in their driveway.
My advise:
Live within your means and start diversyfying your economy (and this does not mean produce more beef)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The only reason Ontario and Quebec are doing fine is because Donald Trump put the US economy on steroids and their excess demand is spilling over and lifting up Eastern Canada manufacturing. Thank the Trumpster for your prosperity. Seriously. Thank him. I know you can’t imagine doing so, but you should.

Don’t believe me? How was Canada doing when the US was in the depths of recession? The only thing that kept Canada afloat was western resoure exports to China and the oilpatch. That was it. Nothing else.

As an Albertan, I think Quebec and Ontario should tear out all of their hydroelectric facilities. The damage done to the fisheries is unimaginable. Maybe Kenney can slip Greta Thunberg a first class ticket on Lufthansa and a couple of grand and ask her to protest about that next.

#118 TS on 10.23.19 at 6:11 pm

This whole soap opera is a train wreck in slow motion because both sides are worrying about exactly the wrong things. Alberta has every right to be miffed that central Canada is happy to take the milk but not buy the cow, but the real reason investors are packing up is that oil sands are too far down the cost curve while demand erodes not because of Mr Socks.

If we had real leadership you would do everything you could to support the last wheezing 10 or 15 years of solid demand left for Alberta’s energy industry while investing heavily in economic diversification. Norway has a pretty good blueprint.

Alberta also needs to do its part to work through its issues. It is very hard to sell the idea that the federal government’s policies are generating an economic calamity when Alberta still has the highest per capita earnings in the country and the lowest tax burden.

The separtist talk is just upping the volume in an effort to finally be heard. It isn’t an end goal except for a very fringe segment of the population.

#119 I have questions on 10.23.19 at 6:13 pm

Serious question, if the trans mountain pipeline were open tomorrow at triple the current capacity where does the oil go from there? On projects this enormous those contracts are signed before a shovel goes in the ground or a piece of pipe is delivered, right? Even if the eastern route had not been withdrawn and both were built and they began refining it in New Brunswick, where does it go from there? Sure we could, at least in theory, quit importing from the middle east but that is a pretty small amount in the big scheme of things.
I like Western Canada, I’d like to see everyone successful throughout the country but the reality is the markets isn’t it? The U.S. is fracking everything they can frack, at least until they run out of water, upping supply and lowering prices. Even when the Saudis were attacked it was a short lived blip in the prices. The problem seems to originate outside our borders and we can’t effect the issues that I can see.
All this talk of separation again, seems even if it could be done would actually make things worse for Alberta.

#120 acdel on 10.23.19 at 6:13 pm

#89 Calgary

I have been saying the same thing as you for years but unfortunately (mostly foreign) funded special interest groups manipulated the media, I blame mostly the media for giving these people the time of day.

They, the so called environmentalist (complete hypocrisy); starting with Suzuki, Gores, and the newest fads are so misinformed (they know it) but strictly do it to keep there funds coming in from gullible people.

Best thing one can do (and we have done alot) is plant a fricken tree and look after it. Most of us run energy efficient appliances (which are crap); new vehicles; not sure what the stat is but it would probably take ten newer vehicle to emit the same toxins as a 60’s to 70’s model car in which I love. We recycle which is a sham when most of it ends up in our landfill anyways. Most of us have water meters etc,etc,etc..

As a Westerner I could no longer care less what Montreal,Toronto or those very hypocritical Vancouverites and especially T2 have to say. It is all Blah,Blah,Blah, we promise, blah,blah,blah, carbon tax,blah,blah,blah, we are a country,blah,blah,blah, environmentalist,blah,blah,blah.

Kennie had a point; we will give it two years then after that the gloves are off. C’est la vie!

Do not underestimate the anger out there!

#121 Mean Gene on 10.23.19 at 6:16 pm

Learned a new thing today, thanks Mr T!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarity_Act

Albertans seem to think everyone is against them, more likely the rest of Canada is jealous because of THEIR oil reserves and the revenue THEY derive from it, no provincial sales taxes come to mind.

Dredging up the National Energy Program from the 1980’s (30 bloody years ago) is not relevant or productive in dealing with the issues at hand.

Different parties have tried to slow down or stop the trans-mountain pipeline expansion, so the feds bought it to get it built/expanded

Due to technological changes and worldwide consumption patterns of crude, Alberta’s product doesn’t get the price it used to for various reasons.

It appears the Feds have done everything reasonable/legal helping Alberta get their product to a different market.

Still they dump on Ottawa.

#122 conan on 10.23.19 at 6:18 pm

I would be funding these separatists if I was making millions, or billions, from the discounted oil trade between Alberta and the USA. Same with stopping TMX, at any cost.

CRA investigates discounted business deals now, and this has to be one of the biggest in the world.

#123 Randy Cross on 10.23.19 at 6:18 pm

I Agree 100% with #13 PeterfromCalgary

#124 Get A Grip on 10.23.19 at 6:21 pm

This blog’s comment section has become an insane echo chamber of the mentally disturbed. The only Albertan’s ‘incandescent with rage’ are the ones who think slamming their fingers into a keyboard on a Conservative fiscal blog will solve their issues and get their message out. It won’t.
And rest assured 99% of Albertans are not even thinking about separating. The whole idea is daft and insulting to everyone’s intelligence.

Garth, might I suggest an algorithm to remove any comment with the word ‘Alberta’ in it until this news cycle dies down? Shouldn’t be too long before these #wexiters find a new thing to hate. (Truth is they actually hate themselves… it’s sad. I recommend therapy and a bit of self love and compassion).

We’re all Canadians for F sakes! This is a wonderful country and we should be grateful to have been born or emigrated here.

Get a grip, friends.

#125 The WOMBAT on 10.23.19 at 6:21 pm

I’ll be watching the discussion about Alberta separating with great interest. If it proceeds, I will be starting separation negotiations to remove my farm from Canada.
I spend over 50% of my income on taxes – Income tax for Justin and Doug, HST on insurance, HST on home repairs, HST on heating propane, HST on all non-food items, gas tax on all fuel that I use, property tax on the farm, HST on internet and TV service, GST on my hydro bill, HST on ammunition, multiple taxes on my rum and beer.
What do I personally get from of the government?
‘0’. Worse than Alberta.
In 2018, Canada gave $864 million to the top 5 countries on the CIDA list. There was a total disbursement of $5.5 Billion given or loaned to needy countries. (this is from the CIDA website).
Our provincial government tackles the issues for the masses, like banning eyeball tattoos and redesigning a trillium logo. Important stuff.
Stop the insanity or I will stomp my foot and hold my breath.

#126 Bezengy on 10.23.19 at 6:33 pm

I was at a club conference in North Bay awhile back and some dude from Dawson Creek stood up at the podium and declared us Easterner’s weren’t all that bad as he thought we were. I had no idea at that time western alienation even existed. I came up with the idea that the problem was Canadians didn’t really know each other, and what we needed was to get actually meet people from other provinces, and understand their issues. I proposed that the government should offer a tax credit for those who travelled to another province to promote unity. A couple of months later, thanks to my buddy who worked for the local newspaper, the issue was being voted on as a private members bill. It was defeated. Too bad as I think it might have helped out with these unity issues.

#127 acdel on 10.23.19 at 6:34 pm

#124 Get A Grip

You just do not get it! Not even sure as to why I just wasted my time responding to you. We are a country,blah,blah,blah, you are delusional! No,we are not; until we are, there is no hope; many of us get it; we are sick and tired of special interest groups, Toronto,Montreal and Vancouver dictating to us, taking our money, living the life on fossil fuels and telling us that we are selfish little fools. These so called selfish fools have made a huge contribution to this so called Country. God, you are so naive when it comes to the understanding of the anger in the West.

#128 NoName on 10.23.19 at 6:43 pm

#124 Get A Grip on 10.23.19 at 6:21 pm

We’re all Canadians for F sakes!

—-

So wrong, you are, post nation state, we are…

#129 Thedood on 10.23.19 at 6:44 pm

#113 Dazed and Confused on 10.23.19 at 5:59 pm

Your post was too long to copy/paste but BINGO, you hit the nail on the head.

I remember those bumper stickers. LOL!

#130 Cto on 10.23.19 at 6:45 pm

All’s fair in Love and War.
Alberta could just shut the spigots off, and they should.

#131 Sheesh ... lighten up you dawgs ... on 10.23.19 at 6:45 pm

#80 Shawn Allen on 10.23.19 at 4:05 pm
Who took the Cod?

Let’s get back to de codfish …

#132 yabba dabba doo on 10.23.19 at 6:47 pm

Bloc 31 seats 7.7% popular vote
Ndp 24 15.9%
Greens 3 6%
Libs 157 33.1%
Cons 121 34.4%

A Broken promise to reform first past the post is a WIN.

Reap what you Sow Trudeau.

#133 Cto on 10.23.19 at 6:51 pm

DELETED

#134 oh bouy on 10.23.19 at 6:53 pm

@#127 acdel on 10.23.19 at 6:34 pm
#124 Get A Grip

You just do not get it! Not even sure as to why I just wasted my time responding to you. We are a country,blah,blah,blah, you are delusional! No,we are not; until we are, there is no hope; many of us get it; we are sick and tired of special interest groups, Toronto,Montreal and Vancouver dictating to us, taking our money, living the life on fossil fuels and telling us that we are selfish little fools. These so called selfish fools have made a huge contribution to this so called Country. God, you are so naive when it comes to the understanding of the anger in the West.
__________________________________

lol, quit pouting and grow up son.
the vocal minority on here doesn’t speak for the west.
you doomers have really lost your marbles today.

#135 War Measures Act on 10.23.19 at 6:54 pm

Imagine T2 invoking the War Measures Act as his father did during the October Crisis.

#136 islandgirl on 10.23.19 at 6:59 pm

Argh, I always wonder why when people hear climate change solutions the only thing they think about is driving their car. In order to actually make a difference people need to change the way they live, and what they use for transportation is just one small part. Humankind as a whole is living a disposable, replaceable lifestyle. Nothing is kept, everything is tossed for something new day after day. Convenience is favored over longevity and the latest trend is constantly chased. From the one who thinks they need a giant truck to commute through a city to work, to those who think they need the latest tech the minute it comes out or the person who thinks that they are helping the planet by buying organic vegan quinoa that has to be shipped halfway around the world instead of a eating a chicken raised in their backyard. None of these behaviors are sustainable and in their own way contribute to the crisis. But as expected most people won’t make the necessary changes to their lifestyle until the writing is on the wall. We have built an economy on consumption, and it’s going to be a hard one to undo.

Should Alberta separate, no that won’t help them, but I don’t see things getting better before they get worse. I think mankind is going to need to really hit bottom before change happens. Why else would I have made sure to buy a bouse at least 80m above sea level, at least I will have somewhere to dock my rowboat. Am I doing my part? I try, I think about everything I bring home, and try to figure the best way to reduce my consumption and I fail a lot, but sometimes I succeed and if I can reduce my waste/recycling, I’m making a difference.

#137 acdel on 10.23.19 at 7:01 pm

#134 oh bouy

Fair enough; we shall see in the near future! :)
C’est la vie mon amie!

#138 Wexit on 10.23.19 at 7:03 pm

T2 had better build TMX pipeline and should force it through any court. Grow a pair and get it done! Albertan’s are SICK AND TIRED of all the stalling and waffling.

#139 oh bouy on 10.23.19 at 7:04 pm

@#113 Dazed and Confused on 10.23.19 at 5:59 pm
Remember the 80’s bumper stickers? “Please God let there be another boom and I promise not to pi$$ it all away next time”. Conservative Rinse & Repeat for 40 years.
———————————————–

a voice of reason.

they should have printed a new batch of those stickers 6-7 years ago

#140 Jay 82 on 10.23.19 at 7:06 pm

Alberta’s frustration isn’t just about oil. In my opinion its about the constant deficit spending out east at an unsustainable level. If oil is in fact dead along with any resource development due to environmental nutjobs trying to control the weather then what exactly is going to continue to fund out lifestyle? Ontario manufacturing? I hear that’s going well. People in Ontario vote liberal while buying large SUVs to transport their kids to some private school and dream of the suburban utopia just like everyone else. It’s always someone else who has to change.

#141 april on 10.23.19 at 7:06 pm

#99 – According to Ross Kay, Howestreet.com, Tues Oct 22, the first time buyers will be strongly influenced by realtors to jump on the new First Time Home Buyer Initiative which will increase sales. A bad idea for the buyers but realtor spin will make it sound like a good idea. It’s a shame so many of us are so easily manipulated by these scammers.

#142 Steven Rowlandson on 10.23.19 at 7:07 pm

In the grand scheme of things this is not too bad at all.
It could be better of course but next to federal and provincial debts it is pretty good. 18.1 billion earning interest is not failure it is a step in the right direction.

https://www.alberta.ca/heritage-savings-trust-fund.aspx

#143 Flop... on 10.23.19 at 7:14 pm

Just checking in.

Is half the blog still on suicide watch?

Or is it down to a quarter…

M45BC

#144 kommykim on 10.23.19 at 7:15 pm

If Alberta thinks that it is having difficulty getting pipelines to tidewater now, imaging how difficult it will be if they have to deal with a separate country. BC isn’t going with them.

#145 april on 10.23.19 at 7:16 pm

#90 – If you type in, Global Warming: Fact or Fiction? Featuring Physicists Willie Soon and Elliot Bloom you’ll get it. I did.

#146 Chaddywack on 10.23.19 at 7:21 pm

I’m no lawyer, but am curious since constitutional amendments that only affect one province do not require the consent of any of the others and only parliament.

Does anyone think that Alberta could argue that its separation requires on its own consent?

#147 Dave on 10.23.19 at 7:22 pm

Alberta can[t afford to leave, they are going to need handouts from the Feds

#148 Cici on 10.23.19 at 7:24 pm

How naive, it’s almost cute.

Alberta can’t shoot its way out cause they don’t even own the land or oil fields they’re standing on. The Queen and the Crown do.

And the Americans don’t want or need the pipelines at present. They’re getting it raw for peanuts thanks to the strength of their dollar and besides, they get to make money and create jobs refining it on their territory.

And why would they want to adopt any Canadian province used to the spoils of social welfare and pay them more in American dollars?

It’s not the ROCs fault that the price of oil has cratered on the global market, and its kind of stupid that they think the provinces should provide them with the costly real estate needed to lay the pipe and pay for all the related maintenance and spills so that Alberta can pocket the unguaranteed and potentially imaginary gains.

If Alberta wants to get ahead, they’d better think about calming the GI Joe testosterone fest and using their brains and talent to negotiate and attract new industry and development that could capitalize on the expertise and resources they already have but that are presently languishing because their one-trick pony has gone bust.

As Garth always says, better to be diversied than bitter. Oh wait, that’s my line. But he goes on about diversification all the time too :-)

#149 crazyfox on 10.23.19 at 7:30 pm

So many of us are just not getting it.

Pipeline’s not getting built aren’t just an Alberta issue, its an American issue:

https://calgaryherald.com/commodities/energy/trumps-fast-tracking-of-oil-pipelines-hits-legal-roadblocks/wcm/0fef2933-eef3-440e-b9d9-56788c9ca2f1

Keystone would have solved Alberta’s glut problem if not for the glaring fact that the U.S. is dragging their feet building this pipeline (for longer than a decade now, same issues, courts) and there’s a combination of factors going into it that aren’t environmental.

First is, the U.S. is buying cheap oil from Canada because of it so why wouldn’t they, as buyers, drag their feet. The second is, the U.S. has ramped up their own production tremendously over the last few years and don’t have the pipe and facility capacity to take it (this chart doesn’t include corn/ethanol production).

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WCRFPUS2&f=W

So, Canada needs new markets for extra heavies. We can ship it west but it’s held up in the courts. We can ship it East, except for the glaring fact that extra heavy crude is far costlier and creates far more upstream emissions to refine, than light crude which the east mostly consumes. The U.S. is still a net crude importer of light crude and the location of production of light crude in Canada combined with existing infrastructure and demand makes it such that the U.S. is taking it. It’s the new production extra heavies that we need pipelines for and refineries to upgrade it but you need a market for that and infrastructure to deliver.

Oil execs can complain on BNN about the lack of investment but Alberta overdeveloped production thinking Keystone would get built and its not and now oil execs are looking for anyone else to blame but themselves. It’s BC’s fault or natives or Liberal judges or T2, but it’s never them. Right? Way of the world. Who’s idea was it to allow extra heavy crude over production in the first place? Where was Alberta’s precious Conservative governments during all of this, do I have to spell it out?

Keystone is stalled as explained, so south is out. Energy east isn’t viable because it’s just not the right energy feed stock for Eastern Canada consumption regardless of what numb nuts Scheer has to say and the Atlantic markets beyond the Saint Lawrence aren’t established at all so that leaves West or North to the pacific Rim. The North is out more than any other reason because of the so called scam of climate change so that leaves West. Trans Mountain.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/10/23/trudeau-commits-to-trans-mountain-pipeline-and-cutting-income-tax.html

And I ask readers… when has Trudeau not been committed to Trans Mountain?

I’m from Sask, go to Alberta 10x a year. It’s a low information environment with plenty of low level racism, sexism and media propaganda that portrays climate change as a scam and oil production as the world’s savior energy, about what one would expect from a corrupted media and government that looks for an easy sell.

Of course, I’m generalizing… somewhat. It’s a media environment that tells its consumers they are more special then they really are and deflects blame and responsibility to scapegoats and straw men for their problems when things go south. Y’know, kind of like the media is with the logging industry in BC or tech,mining and manufacturing in Ontario but with oil its different.

The U.S. has interfered with the group think of Alberta for some time now. Alberta’s foreign majority owned resources of which the royalties are the lowest in the world are there for a reason and Albertan’s, love them or hate ’em, are far more brainwashed than they know, much of it willingly because of the leftover crumbs they consider to be wealth.

So, when I hear Alberta separatists talking nut talk, I ask myself, is this the 18% of the adult population with a mental health condition? Or is it the simple minded and easily led (its both). Is there enough of them to worry about? (don’t answer that) One thing is clear to me. We haven’t heard much from the ones who are smart and healthy. I’m much more interested in knowing what they have to say instead of the numb nut all hat no cattle cowboys we get here (losers that they are).

#150 acdel on 10.23.19 at 7:34 pm

Interesting article on a highly respected zoologist that was fired for telling the truth about Polar Bears; based out of Victoria; of course the climate alarmists placed pressure on the UofV board and they fell for it to save their hides; oh, so typical! Poor lady!

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/was-this-zoologist-punished-for-telling-school-kids-politically-incorrect-facts-about-polar-bears#comments-area

#151 Jordan Zale on 10.23.19 at 7:35 pm

148 comments mark which ironically what the barrel of oil topped at in U.S. dollars back in 2007 I believe.

It seems to me that we are rewarding losers in our country from ultra low borrowing interest rates to $24 billion in annual child welfare payments due to the breakdown and destruction of the family through socialism.

As we continue to do this we will get the same results and in economics this is known as crowding out businesses and this will ultimately make Canada a have not country. The well will dry up, listen up UN subjects and lefties.

#152 Willy H on 10.23.19 at 7:36 pm

“My guess is that the Alberta Government is first going to try to negotiate a new transfer arrangement. It may also ask for a specific mandate to do so in the form of a referendum. If the rest of Canada does not negotiate seriously, there will be a second referendum. We will have a simple question and we will be gone. The negotiations will be pretty simple, we will do what we want to do and the ROC can agree or not, but we will go.”

___ ___ ___

Where pray tell will landlocked Alberta go exactly?

Ottawa does not control world oil prices and a pipeline, despite all of Bay Street’s rhetoric, will do little more than allow Alberta’s dirty oil to be sold in US or world markets for a pittance contrasted against a provincial trillion dollar environmental liability.

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/04/13/HarpersBigQuestion/

Wasn’t former Premier Alison Redford calling for a new NEP just a few short years ago under Harper?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/redford-has-a-national-energy-plan—but-dont-call-it-the-nep/article4085823/

Spent a week in Edmonton last summer and Alberta’s large urban centres support a diverse population, most latte sipping newcomers will have absolutely no knowledge of the T1’s NEP strategy.

The is more the same from Canada’s western neo-con’s who delight in flogging a largely mythic dead horse (PET) while peddling economic pipe dreams.

___ ___ ___

As far as pledges to restore the area around Fort McMurray, Warrack is not optimistic. “Anybody who thinks the environment [at oil sands operations] is going to get fixed is smoking something. I mean they will just declare bankruptcy and they are out of Dodge. Is there any doubt?”

Allan Warrack, formerly Minister of Lands and Forests under Peter Lougheed government.

#153 Land Locked on 10.23.19 at 7:41 pm

Alberta will never pull out. The feds would capitulate long before the final step was needed. But now that the dance has begun, its gonna be fun to watch. But I agree with other posters that if they decided to pull out some lame law isn’t going to stop them, and Ottawa won’t be sending troops.

#154 Tony on 10.23.19 at 7:42 pm

Transmountain expansion will proceed. Will this be enough? Only if the barriers to shipping Canadian oil but not US oil down the coast between mainland BC and the Island. Then a tube to Kitimat can proceed as already conditionally approved.

Keystone is being built.

Only idiots think Energy east is bad as it will replace Middle East oil.

#155 Podcaster on 10.23.19 at 7:44 pm

Hey Garth I just realized you don’t have a podcast, neither do I. That seems to make us the last two to not have podcasts. You want to do a podcast? I could ask you a question you answer and then I yell wrong. It would be just like the Mclaughlin Group years ago. We could have blog posters call in, ask them their name and then both of us yell wrong.

Weekly podcast available at http://www.turnerinvestments.ca. – Garth

#156 Willy H on 10.23.19 at 7:44 pm

“Just keep it up Ontario and Quebec. Keep putting down the West.”

___ ___ ___

Western Canada is not a monolithic group. Manitobans are centrist, Saskatchewan is politically bi-polar (NDP vs PC’s) and BC is more left-wing than most of Eastern Canada (with the exception of urban Quebec).

Critiquing Alberta’s failed one-trick pony economy is not a swipe at Western Canada.

If only Alberta’s right-wingers would stop shadow boxing T1’s (PET) ghost and channel their energies into something far more productive.

#157 Land Locked on 10.23.19 at 7:47 pm

Alberta is over 66 million hectares in size. The Crown (i.e., Alberta) owns the mineral rights for approximately 81% (53.7 million hectares). Alberta received these mineral rights from Canada in 1930, under the Natural Resources Transfer Act.

#158 IHCTD9 on 10.23.19 at 7:49 pm

#83 Gramps on 10.23.19 at 4:15 pm

“Unless they shoot their way out”
That’s not how most marriages end. One party just leaves.

—- –

Ah, yes. Walk away wife syndrome:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome

#159 Calgary Cowboy on 10.23.19 at 7:49 pm

Separating may indeed be difficult, or nearly impossible (thanks for the explanation Garth!), but it appears there is an appetite for trying. Nearing 100,000 signatures on this petition in less than 48 hours.

http://chng.it/h2wgVPzb

#160 Northern Ontario Hinterland on 10.23.19 at 7:54 pm

I had to stop reading comments. The snide and nasty comments directed at Albertans and westerners are making me physically ill. This is how you treat your fellow Canadians? Kick them while they’re already down? This is absolutely DISGUSTING behaviour from adults. Are you incapable of civilized conversation?

I also live in a resource rich region, hobbled by feds and environmental wingnuts, and those who buy into the Cult of BS. After our region was put out to pasture by politicians that don’t even know where we are, my brother had to start flying to Alberta every 10 days to get a paycheque. Eight years…EIGHT FREAKING YEARS…and hundreds of thousands to Air Canada (NOT tax deductible). People from Newfoundland know what I mean.

This country is BROKEN, and the feds did it. Trudeau should be a cuss word in this country…both I and II. If Alberta, Sask, and Man feel they need to go to survive, I stand with you. Maybe you should extend that border through to the eastern end of Lake Superior. I and my family stand with YOU, not Ottawa.

#161 Long-Time Lurker on 10.23.19 at 7:55 pm

>For Albertans: Acres of Windmills.

Acres of Diamonds
Temple University

This is Russell Conwell’s famous “Acres of Diamonds” speech—and the inspiration for the university’s mission.

I am astonished that so many people should care to hear this story over again. Indeed, this lecture has become a study in psychology; it often breaks all rules of oratory, departs from the precepts of rhetoric, and yet remains the most popular of any lecture I have delivered in the fifty-seven years of my public life. I have sometimes studied for a year upon a lecture and made careful research, and then presented the lecture just once—never delivered it again. I put too much work on it. But this had no work on it—thrown together perfectly at random, spoken offhand without any special preparation, and it succeeds when the thing we study, work over, adjust to a plan, is an entire failure.

The “Acres of Diamonds” which I have mentioned through so many years are to be found in this city, and you are to find them. Many have found them. And what man has done, man can do. I could not find anything better to illustrate my thought than a story I have told over and over again, and which is now found in books in nearly every library….

https://www.temple.edu/about/history-traditions/acres-diamonds

#162 Long-Time Lurker on 10.23.19 at 7:57 pm

>Here Albertans: Acres of Windmills

As climate threat looms, Texas Republicans have a solution: giant wind farm everywhere
ELIZABETH WEISE AND RICK JERVIS | USA TODAY | 11:30 am EDT October 21, 2019

Texas’ journey to becoming a wind powerhouse could be a map for the many U.S. states that have substantial wind resources.
USA TODAY

ROSCOE, Texas — The sprawling Roscoe Wind Complex stretches across four counties and 84,000 acres in West Texas — bigger than five Manhattan islands. Located about three hours west of Fort Worth, it’s comprised of 627 turbines that could generate up to 782 megawatts of electricity an hour, or enough to power 234,000 homes for a full year.

Nearing the wind complex, first one enormous turbine emerges from the cotton and wheat fields, then another, then a row of them — then hundreds, their gigantic blades spinning steadily in the blustery Texas wind. Each turbine is more than 200 feet tall, the size of a 20-story building, with blades that point 95 feet into the air.

For a state tied both economically and in the American imagination to oil, gas and coal, Texas has in recent years become the biggest generator of wind power in the U.S. By next year, Texas is poised to get more of its electricity from wind than coal.

All that wind adds up. Texas now produces one-quarter of all U.S. electricity from wind. If Texas were a country, it would rank fifth in the world for wind power capacity.

“There was a bunch of demand, there was a bunch of wind and there was policy that supported competition,” said Susan Sloan, vice president for state affairs with the American Wind Energy Association in Washington, D.C. “It has just really blossomed.”…

…Texas isn’t oil country, or coal country, or even fracking country, said Sarah Mills, an engineer and development expert who studies wind energy in rural areas at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

“Texas is simply energy country,” she said…

…“They were interested in economic development for the state. It wasn’t a matter of climate change or ideology, it was purely economics. This has always received bipartisan support in Texas,” said Robert Stavins, a professor of energy and economic development at the Harvard Kennedy School at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Texas’ wind industry also benefits from the state having large rural areas with few zoning restrictions and a strong ethos of limited government intervention into what landowners can do on their own property.

“There aren’t a ton of rules about where things get put. And there are lots of landowners with large swaths of land who can place multiple turbines,” said Mills…

…Wind produces a substantial number of jobs in the state. More than 25,000 Texans work in the industry. To maintain the turbines, teams of technicians constantly visit the structures, inspecting gears or conducting pre-planned maintenance.

Wind dollars pay for local services
For rural communities that have been hollowed out by declines in agriculture and manufacturing, wind energy is a win, said the American Wind Energy Association’s Sloan.

Texas produces more wind power than any other state.

“The farmers and ranchers get the income from the land, the communities get a bigger tax base and the cities get a cheap, stable energy source,” she said.

All this makes wind an increasingly valuable resource that’s allowing rural areas to remain vibrant, said Cyrus Reed, conservation director for the Lone Star Chapter of the Sierra Club, one of the oldest environmental groups in the nation.

“You don’t have to choose,” said Reed. “You can have turbines and a cotton field and a pumpjack [oil well] all on the same acre.”…

…KC Hope, a technician at the RWE complex in Roscoe, agrees. He’s seen how the wind farm has transformed his small hometown, with its population of 1,293. Landowners are earning steady royalties from turbines on their farms and the local county has been bolstered by a surge in tax revenue, he said.

The turbine leasing money went into transforming the local high school, Roscoe Collegiate High –“Home of the Plowboys and Plowgirls”– into a top-tier, state-of-the-art STEM school that draws transfer students from other counties, said Hope, who is also a city councilman.

“We’ve transformed in a way we wouldn’t have without them,” he said of the turbines.

Originally Published 12:45 pm EDT October 18, 2019
Updated 11:30 am EDT October 21, 2019

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3865995002

#163 cowtown cowboy on 10.23.19 at 8:03 pm

My family didn’t homestead this province in the 1800’s, before there was a province, to give it away to some eastern creeps and bums..or sissy boys from Vancouver, the West will rise again!

#164 J. Canuck on 10.23.19 at 8:05 pm

I spent 20 years in Alberta from 1978. Even back then, Albertans were squawking about leaving Canada, blah, blah. What can they do? Join the U.S.? Big culture shock, so I don’t think so. And Alberta is sorta landlocked so no way to ship their oil.

Anyone who thinks a militia composed of overweight, out-of shape, middle-aged men with hunting rifles will scare off the Canadian military needs to tune into Reality FM. Actually a troop of boy scouts would be able to keep the Alberta militia in line.

Justin got all of his dad’s arrogance. It’s too bad he got his mother’s brains. The global warming climate change/emergency/crisis is a farce promulgated by a mixed bag of ecological crusaders who don’t understand much about physics, engineering, geology or the realities of our world as it is currently organized. But their minds are made up. Don’t confuse them with the facts.

#165 Don on 10.23.19 at 8:05 pm

#120 Kennie had a point; we will give it two years then after that the gloves are off. C’est la vie!

Why didn’t Jason Kenny and Steven Harper approve pipelines and get them built when they had majority governments? Seems they had a lot more than 2 years.

I want Trudeau to get rid of his anti pipeline bill and Alberta to get product to world markets, but what a hypocrite Kenny is now.

#166 EB on 10.23.19 at 8:06 pm

Once respect for the system is lost, all bets are off. “According to the rules we made up you can’t do it, so sit down and shut up,” isn’t much of an argument at that point. I’m sure it will be another temporary squall all the same, but this is an interesting time. People everywhere are feeling like their voices don’t count for much against the decisions made by the Great and Good. Let’s try calling them all ignorant populist rednecks again, it will probably work this time.

#167 I'm Alright Jack on 10.23.19 at 8:08 pm

I don’t think Alberta should separate – Albertans and others from the prairies have always been very strong patriots. I think we should encourage Quebec to. That is what they are constantly asking for, or bribing the federal government with, isn’t it?

Encourage Quebec to fulfill this dream to have their very own special nation (they’re halfway there anyway). Then we can stop the equalization payments to the perpetually spoiled child of confederation, and deal with them like any other country.

I think they may change their tune on Canadian oil and gas then (but who knows, maybe they’ll be the first totally electric country)? And maybe, for once, they’ll have to pay their own way.

But this would seriously erode base support for the Liberals, so that maybe a party not totally beholden to Quebec could take power. Maybe the RoC can have a referendum on Quebec separation?

#168 oh bouy on 10.23.19 at 8:09 pm

@#140 Jay 82 on 10.23.19 at 7:06 pm
Alberta’s frustration isn’t just about oil. In my opinion its about the constant deficit spending out east at an unsustainable level. If oil is in fact dead along with any resource development due to environmental nutjobs trying to control the weather then what exactly is going to continue to fund out lifestyle? Ontario manufacturing? I hear that’s going well. People in Ontario vote liberal while buying large SUVs to transport their kids to some private school and dream of the suburban utopia just like everyone else. It’s always someone else who has to change.

__________________________

haha, generalize much?
wish I could send my kids to private school.

#169 Calgary Cowboy on 10.23.19 at 8:12 pm

Garth, if Alberta is not able to separate because of the complex process, and because it would not receive enough support from the Senate and House of Commons representatives, what do you foresee?

The local population will be held against it’s will, despite a potentially significant sentiment?

#170 the ryguy on 10.23.19 at 8:13 pm

#149 crazyfox on 10.23.19 at 7:30 pm
————————————————-
With comments like yours you wonder why Albertans are getting angry? Yeesh..dude you’re from Sask..you mean to tell me that Sask is a perfect utopia? L..O..Effin..L.

Kudos to the other poster that put up the Peter Zeihan article. Peter has multiple videos on youtube explaining how an Alberta seperation would go..jist of his thoughts is that its terrible for Canada but awesome for Alberta.

#171 Sail Away on 10.23.19 at 8:16 pm

#115 Chris on 10.23.19 at 6:02 pm

“We will hire the Americans to handle our defence needs, and use the American dollar.” If that were to happen, the Americans would simply annex Alberta, and it would become part of the failing US empire. Totally naive to think otherwise.

——————————

Failing US Empire??

What are you talking about? Some context please.

#172 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.23.19 at 8:17 pm

Dear Alberta,

You have friends here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feTqyMAiggo

#173 Nonplused on 10.23.19 at 8:17 pm

“Whoa. This is sedition, n’est-ce pas? How did it happen?” -Garth

Not sedition. My point was that it is impossible to see how there would be a military solution. Ontario is too far away and lacks the resources to do anything about it, should the vote be cast. Negotiation is the only way forward. I realize you have a lot of comments to review and maybe I wasn’t sufficiently clear so I hope that clarifies it and my apologies.

As for the 5 points, how well do you think it would go down if Alberta had a referendum, probably over the transfer payment problem more so than pipelines, because separating wouldn’t be helpful in terms of getting those built unless they went south, and then Ottawa decided not to recognize it for whatever phony excuse they could come up with? Alberta would leave anyway. Ottawa could pass all the laws they like but they wouldn’t have jurisdiction anymore. They simply wouldn’t have jurisdiction after the vote, and my point was they don’t have a military option either.

Just as it is and always been up to the people of Quebec to decide whether they are in confederation or out, so it is to the people of Alberta or indeed any other province too. It’s a confederacy, not an empire.

That said, it would be messy. A better solution would be for Trudeau to stop treating Alberta and indeed all the areas that voted blue as a territory to be taxed for the benefit of Ontario and Quebec and start addressing some real issues. Access to markets, the horrible transfer payment imbalance, and the unpopular carbon tax just being the major ones getting talked about the most right now.

Albertans paying much more (4x) per-capita for transfer payments than anyone else seemed tolerable when we were the richest Canadians due to the oil and gas industry. A cost of confederation I suppose, but a tolerable one because we had the money. Now that the tide has gone out on that industry and our neighbors to the west and east are intentionally blocking projects on dubious environmental grounds and using terms like “phase out the oil sands in 10 years” (hint: not going to happen), what do you think would happen to sentiment in Alberta? That sort of stuff leads to revolutions. And we in the west (except for the extreme west of BC) are not causing it. We are the victims. But victims with guns and oil don’t stay victims for long.

Trudeau’s playbook of virtual signalling his Ontario and Quebec soccer moms as they drive around in their Saudi head-chopper powered Subarus while crapping on the west is not going to fly any longer. Quebec was never going to be any help, but Ontario had the chance on Monday to put a stop to it. They voted not to. There will be consequences.

I actually see the resurgence of the BQ as a positive sign. It shows Quebec for what they are; self interested. That’s not meant as an insult, aren’t we all? But it also means that the Conservatives may have also just morphed into a self interested geographical party, and that should be ok since it’s fine when it happens in Quebec.

Trudeau is now truly in well over his head, and without a life jacket. I would say it’s a reasonable bet that parliament dissolves within a year. If not, Alberta has a referendum within 2 years. If Quebec can do it, so can Alberta.

This whole thing is a huge mess and Trudeau is not the one to resolve it.

#174 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.23.19 at 8:19 pm

#158 IHCTD9 on 10.23.19 at 7:49 pm sez:
“#83 Gramps on 10.23.19 at 4:15 pm

“Unless they shoot their way out”
That’s not how most marriages end. One party just leaves.

—- –

Ah, yes. Walk away wife syndrome:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome
—————————————————-
Wow. The guy that follows that psychobabble will soon be divorced.

#175 S.Bby on 10.23.19 at 8:22 pm

Jason Kenney should write a letter to Trump and offer Alberta up for sale. Trump wanted to buy Greenland so he might be interested in purchasing Alberta.

#176 S.Bby on 10.23.19 at 8:24 pm

But seriously, how many billions of dollars have we left on the table by not building those pipelines… all that oil revenue would pay for a lot of social programs. Canada pays a high price for some people’s ideology.

#177 Cici on 10.23.19 at 8:33 pm

159 Calgary Cowboy

Yes, but the signatories are probably all from Ontario snd Quebec.

Remember a few years back in the boom times when you were calling them names and telling them they were useless without your transfer payments? And now when things go bust you want their big transfer payment handouts and you want them to burden the liabilities for pipelines.

Save your guns and ammo, they’re already signing the dotted line.

#178 Blutterfy on 10.23.19 at 8:39 pm

I’ve said it before – the tmx is going through under people’s noses. Alberta is diversifying it’s economy- Buffet is putting in a $220m wind farm in pincher creek, just talked to guy 2 days ago who’s coordinating switching a coal plant to natural gas. We live in the sunniest province and the solar installation guys can’t keep up. I’ve lived in other provinces and the one thing I like about Alberta (and why I keep living here) is that these guys are practical to a fault and will go wherever 5e money is. Life is the fastest in Alberta – nobody (except for a few very very loud complainers) sits on their ass. I would not be the least surprised to see an Alberta separatist party next election. I can think of at least a dozen people who would vote for them hands down. I think we will have an economic civil war. Our wine tariffs on bc worked to its point. I expect Kenney to probably just stop the transfer payments and we’ll see how negotiations go from there. I don’t think albertans are particularly attached to the idea of being a separate sovereign nation but we sure are heck attached to the idea that east is stomping all over and mugging us. Quebec is against pipelines and oil but they have no problem with our dirty money. I think I can speak for all 4.5million of us when I say that if you don’t like where the money comes from you shouldn’t take the money to plump up your belle province social programs. I would say cowboy is right and all of us here are 10/10 plain mad.
(And for the record I haven’t voted conservative since Harpers minority government).

#179 Frank on 10.23.19 at 8:42 pm

The price of oil is low compared to when the boom times were happening and jobs were a plenty in oil rich Alberta, Tim Horton’s was paying pretty good too. Now the oil price is low and will be kept low to slow down the EV revolution, but it wont. Not sure what the point of building a pipeline will be which will bring more oil into a market that already has lot’s of oil. It’s all politics at this point and nothing else.

#180 S. Harper on 10.23.19 at 8:42 pm

Garth,
Great post. Right on point as usual.
Stephen.
Ps – you’re still fired.

#181 TC on 10.23.19 at 8:56 pm

Identity politics, political correctness, climate hoaxes, indebtedness, radical left leaning Liberals, faith abandonment, divisiveness, race hatred…..etc… are all part of the Canadian mix contributing to an unfolding fracturing nation. Time is very short now.

#182 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.23.19 at 8:57 pm

@#77 rosie
“The situation in Alberta reminds me of the cod moratorium imposed back in the early 90’s. Newfoundland and Labrador suffered a severe economic blow when then minister Crosby had to shut down the main industry employing a large proportion of the population and destroying the lifestyle of an entire people…..
Oil is going the way of coal….”

++++++++
yep

I remeber the constituents (fishermen) screaming in Crosbie’s face when the cod fishery was shut down ….indefinitely…..because ……there were almost no cod left.

Fishermen screaming, ” What the hell am I supposed to do? Move?”

And I thought, Hmmmm, I moved from the east coast to Alberta for work, then in the early 1980’s when Alberta crashed, I moved again to find work.

Having a job isnt a God given right.
Having a job for life 10 miles from where your were born isnt a God given right.

Go East Albertans or further west….there’s work if you want it.

#183 Sideshow Rob on 10.23.19 at 8:58 pm

Conservatism’s best shot in Canada might be to talk Brad Wall out of retirement. He is one of the most respected political figures in Western Canadian history. I doubt he would be interested but it would go a long way towards blunting western alienation. But he is not a Quebecer so it could never happen.

#184 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.23.19 at 8:59 pm

And if my personal experience living in Alberta is any indication.
Most of the guys with 4×4’s and rifles…..are Newfies.

I guess Trudeau will have to speed up the new gun control Laws to slow down the insurrection….. :)

#185 PeterfromCalgary on 10.23.19 at 8:59 pm

According to the law of the sea inland nations must have access to tide water. This right does not apply to dependent provinces or cities. However, an independent Alberta would have legal access to tidewater.

https://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part10.htm

#186 45north on 10.23.19 at 9:11 pm

climate emergency: a guy at our community association showed up this month. He runs a snow removal service. The carbon tax raises his cost.

The climate emergency is a funny kind of emergency. It takes X dollars a year for every customer. No drastic action is required. It’s the kind of emergency that isn’t an emergency.

#187 yorkville renter on 10.23.19 at 9:13 pm

I’m all for pipelines. purpose-built 21st century infrastructure.
There’s already 100s (1000s?) built around North America, what’s one more?
It’s also the most green way to transport, no fuel to move fuel.
We need jobs.

We should also consider building a refinery to add value and create more long term jobs and industry

#188 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 9:27 pm

#48 Keith on 10.23.19 at 1:48 pm
@ #45 Past the Peak

The inventor of the lightbulb worked by gaslight. Change takes time. How many cars were on the road in 1900, and then how many in 1913. The hypocrisy argument in this context is beyond tired.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Keith, I schooled you the last time when I pointed out you were 100% wrong when you claimed Canada was vastly lagging behind other countries in carbon-free electricity generation (Canada is a leader, thanks).

Now it is back to school. It is 100% hypocrisy to:
– Constantly criticize and demonize fossil fuels and the provinces that produce them
– While simultaneously using them
– It is as simple as that. If you still need to use them (as you note is the case sometimes) => THEN DON”T F’ING KEEP CRITICIZING THEM!!!

It really isn’t that hard.

#189 Nonplused on 10.23.19 at 9:31 pm

#185 PeterfromCalgary

Trudeau don’t care about laws. That is how he do. But we will get access to the tide water once we are an independent or US state. Most of the oil and gas goes down there as it is. They love the money they make on refining the products. They love the land-locked discount. And I suspect, when I have my tin foil hat on, that this is what this is all about. All Alberta oil must go south, but right now the US is up to their eyeballs in shale oil so it is to be pushed out some years. But no new markets are to be allowed, when the oil flows again it will go south. Too bad for the people of BC that might have had jobs building and maintaining Trans-Mountain 2. No jobs for you. A pipeline that doesn’t get built doesn’t need many employees and doesn’t contribute much to the economy.

The US and Britain, and many others, have realized since WWI that it is all about the oil. That’s how politics are done. The US fully understands the future value of the oil sands, but they don’t need it right now. That’s why they are happy to watch our confederacy fall apart.

#190 Lost...but not leased on 10.23.19 at 9:36 pm

BC is THE key to this so called “confederation…”

Without BC? Canada is TOAST !!!

Watching election coverage..the LIBS lead till the western votes were counted….then CONS pulled ahead…The LIB vote was simply in Eastern ridings and provinces accustomed to status quo of entitlements.

Watched the BQ leader speech give the figurative middle finger to Canada…Quebec sovereignty was #1…(if this was any other sane country they would be charged with sedition.)

All J. Turdeau’s win did was to expose confederations flaws moreso than what his daddy Pierre created.

#191 Remembrancer on 10.23.19 at 9:37 pm

#178 Blutterfy on 10.23.19 at 8:39 pm
I expect Kenney to probably just stop the transfer payments and we’ll see how negotiations go from there.
——————————
For the the umpteenth time, there are no transfer payments from the Government of Alberta to the Federal Government. The federal government collects taxes from individuals, corporations, tariffs on imports, royalties and the like and allocates funds as per:

https://www.fin.gc.ca/afr-rfa/2018/report-rapport-eng.asp

At least get informed about what you’re protesting…

#192 Work and Tumble on 10.23.19 at 9:40 pm

I lived in Quebec 23 years and voted Liberal to block the Separatist party, waved the maple leaf.
Moved to Ontario and made a good life for me and my family but never voted for The liberals again.
Never understood the love for Liberals in Ontario.
My Dad always said Alberta will go before Quebec because they are getting the wrong end of the stick.

#193 Remembrancer on 10.23.19 at 9:42 pm

#185 PeterfromCalgary on 10.23.19 at 8:59 pm
According to the law of the sea inland nations must have access to tide water.
———————
You know you can’t pick and chose UN accords you want and don’t want like a Chinese take out menu from Dragon Gate, right?

#194 not 1st on 10.23.19 at 9:50 pm

Its going to a shock to a lot of woke lefties when they realize all the solar energy and wind to run their green utopia is in the same places as the oil. How are we going to get to you? Justins brilliant C69 bill guarantees that no national energy infrastructure will ever be built again.

Man we have some short sighted people bleating about things they know nothing about.

#195 akashic record on 10.23.19 at 9:52 pm

Teenage climate messiah visit in Alberta triggers breaking up Canada :)

#196 ImGonnaBeSick on 10.23.19 at 9:54 pm

You never kick a man when he’s down, and when someone asks you for help, you help them.

#197 Eco Capitalist on 10.23.19 at 10:10 pm

I have only one question for all of you. Who’s laughing harder at us right now, Putin or Jinping?

Divide and conquer…

#198 Cooby on 10.23.19 at 10:14 pm

Isn’t it laughable how both Quebec and Alberta separatists are so certain the Americans will respect their language, their culture, their oil sands? What a bunch of twits. They’ll find themselves subjugated, if not entirely absorbed, by the Americans. Hire the US for your defence, you say? I don’t think so, buddy. You’ll be their cell mate, so don’t drop the soap.

#199 john m on 10.23.19 at 10:17 pm

Alberta is a landlocked province in Canada trying to control the rest of Canada….pfffffffffft .Separation ? who wants them?These threats have been around for a long time but in the overall picture even when they were booming the effect on Canada’s economy was minimal..get a grip Alberta and enjoy the efforts Canadian politicians have made to help!

#200 Stahom on 10.23.19 at 10:21 pm

Maybe before all the extreme exit talk a Alberta styled “Boston Tea Party” of a coordinated period of halting all personal and corporate federal tax payments thus choking CRA’s administration let alone the revenues.

As an Albertan I don’t know what the big rush is to get this product out of the ground at these prices; we are just one big event in the Middle East and prices soar. It is a massive reserve.

If one wants to stay in AB build your financial fortress by being frugal and suck it up. Sell your ski boat, sled and trailer, maybe should have saved for a rainy day, eh? The pioneers of the west would be ashamed of the whining.

Talk of violent defence of this exit idea is easy until the sons and daughters start dying. Enough already.

#201 Kothar on 10.23.19 at 10:27 pm

Unless I see the populace of AB taking to the streets like those in Hong Kong Santiago Chile or even Barcelona Catalan ….then all this is talk.

#202 Kilt on 10.23.19 at 10:27 pm

“Albertan’s feel betrayed!”
Go figure, you only vote one way and you expect any of the other parties to give a crap about you? Especially when they know they can never win your vote.
Sheer is the one who betrayed the West. He did nothing to win over the rest of Canada. It was golden opportunity.
I say “there’s the door, and take Saskatchewan with you. Oh, and we’d be happy to buy your oil, at the same discount the Americans are paying.”

Sorry, this feels like a team of 10 year-olds losing a soccer game and blaming the refs. Even though they lost 8-0.

Kilt.

#203 Cal on 10.23.19 at 10:28 pm

I grew up in Ontario, was a proud Canadian. Moved out to Alberta in 1978, and with their complaints about the East, I thought they were a bunch of losers.

However worked and lost my job during the NEP, and I knew I was wrong about my first impression of Albertans.

To this day, even though I have moved to BC, I have no use for eastern Canada, and want nothing to do with them

#204 Hawk on 10.23.19 at 10:32 pm

If Alberta wants to leave, Ottawa would not stop them.

Canada is not the kind of country that will forcibly keep people who want to leave. This is not the 19th century and people will not fight or persecute their own countrymen.

That said, it may not be a great course of action for Alberta, to manage as a land locked country and if they joined America, the wily yanks will certainly have all the leverage and use it. Americans won’t give sweet deals.

#205 bubu on 10.23.19 at 10:34 pm

AB doesn’t have to leave anything… they have to form the new Canada and see who is going to join them… I bet all provinces will join them except one… Problem solved…

#206 E-town on 10.23.19 at 10:34 pm

For angry folks in AB. Here’s an idea: How about directing some(if not all) of the anger towards the Cons. They completely screwed up this election that should have been an easy win. Everyone is tired of T2 and want someone new. The best the Cons could come up with in 4 years is another Harper? Identity politics and banning immigration will not win over Canadians. Focus on what actually matters.

#207 Long-Time Lurker on 10.23.19 at 10:35 pm

Warren Buffett-linked company to build $200M wind power farm in Alberta

Rattlesnake Ridge Wind project to produce enough energy for 79,000 homes

The Canadian Press · Posted: Oct 15, 2019 10:50 AM MT | Last Updated: October 16

Warren Buffett’s company Berkshire Hathaway Energy is behind the Rattlesnake Ridge Wind project, to be located southwest of Medicine Hat, Alta. (Nati Harnik/Associated Press)

A company linked to U.S. investor Warren Buffett says it will break ground on a $200-million, 117.6-megawatt wind farm in southeastern Alberta next year.

In a release, Calgary-based BHE Canada, a subsidiary of Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Energy, says its Rattlesnake Ridge Wind project will be located southwest of Medicine Hat and will produce enough energy to supply the equivalent of 79,000 homes….

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/wind-farm-warren-buffett-alberta-berkshire-hathaway-calgary-1.5321345

#208 DON on 10.23.19 at 10:39 pm

#22 Thomas Gabriel on 10.23.19 at 12:05 pm

“There is zero correlation between the Lavalin and Husky news. And you know it. – Garth”

Husky is indeed correlated with the results of the election. The exact timing no – but the fact that at some point it became clear the CPC would not gain a majority was the catalyst for Husky’s decision. I advise US investors and just saw a 9 figure deal fall through for the same reason. Investors are willing to absorb macro and risk, but one thing they won’t touch is political risk in Canada. I hope voters know they just drove away billions of dollars of investment. But even if they knew, they probably wouldn’t care. Something something the 1%.
*************

I would like to further investigate this line of thought.

How was Husky going to benefit from having a Conservative majority?

Trudeau’s liberal majority already bought the oil companies a pipeline and the opportunity to twin it to send all that oil to Asia.

What exactly was Husky expecting from a Conservative majority. Why did they think that Mr. Scheer could actually deliver? The twinning of TMX is set to begin construction under Trudeau and Husky lays off workers???

Could the layoffs be due to a lower demand for oil in general?

Why isn’t Albertan Premier Jason Kenney demanding that oil companies retain staff in lieu of the generous corporate tax cuts?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/oilsands-companies-boost-q2-net-incomes-by-2-billion-thanks-to-alberta-tax-cuts-1.5225041

Again, why isn’t Kenney fighting for the employees to retain their jobs if the companies are doing so well? Talk about no strings attached.

And another thing this Alberta boom bust thing is not new…where are all the savings from the high wages that were previously being bragged about from all the high rollers? Just met a guy today that recently came back from Alberta and was amazed to find out that a Class 1 license only fetches 22 – 28 dollars an hour. He was used to a lot more I take it.

I also thought that Mr. Kenney was the next Saviour, he would set things right after 4 years of socialists trying to cope with a downturn, right after the former provincial conservative government allowed Alberta to go south, Again.

This time round Oil has more competition from other types of energy that are now viable to some degree, but still competition as technologies progress. People in the 80’s couldn’t really envision personal home computers and the internet…and if there could the computer would still be mounted to the wall in the kitchen. Never rule out progress and advancements in technology and always take human nature into account.

And why for the love of dog do we refine more products in our Provinces, like gasoline, wood products etc. Why are we selling raw bitumen and raw logs to China for them to sell us crap back. Why are politicians not calling for more secondary and tertiary manufacturing in Canada? Why are we giving jobs to other countries, is it just to benefit of corporations?

Is it safe to say that Trump is resonating with some or even many (quietly) Americans while our politicians resonate with virtually no one?

#209 Long-Time Lurker on 10.23.19 at 10:40 pm

As you can see, Garth, the The Non-Ideological Rationalist Party (NIRP) only has one member. Open membership, though!

#210 The Totally Unbiased, Highly Intelligent, Rational Observer on 10.23.19 at 10:47 pm

CANADA is a great nation that should remain firmly UNITED.

The idea that the province of Alberta should have to separate from the rest of the country of Canada is simply ridiculous. Why would anyone be so quick to want to break up such a great country as Canada? People need to be much more open-minded and flexible than that.

Why not first consider reasonable alternatives, such as simply sending the French back to France where they belong? Instead of always paying the French to stay in the country of Canada, why not pay them to leave it and go back to France where they came from? They would be able to understand each other over there in France, instead of communicating so badly and causing division like they do now in Canada.

The provincial economy could be diversified by repopulating Quebec with hard-working people to replace the transfer-payment crowd and politicians currently living there.

The former province of Quebec could be given a good English name to make it fit in better with the rest of Canada.

If the former French Quebec people still wanted Alberta oil, it could be moved by pipeline to the East coast, and then shipped to them in France, for a price.

Official documents and cereal boxes in Canada would not require so much duplicate writing.

The air waves could support another English language channel instead of wasting television time on French shows that nobody can understand.

Canada would no longer be cursed with French Catholic politicians always trying to undermine the morals of the people and destroy the country.

All would then be peace and harmony and prosperity in a strongly UNITED CANADA.

Think about it.

P.S.

In the event that the French people from Quebec and the French people from France cannot stand each other for some reason, maybe the French people from Quebec could be relocated to some other place, such as to Madagascar.

#211 Doug in London on 10.23.19 at 10:49 pm

Yes, getting pipelines built would help the situation in Alberta a lot. After the benevolent government sinking all that money into the Transmountain pipeline, getting it built needs to be top priority. Second, Energy East should be reconsidered. It makes no sense at all to be selling Alberta oil so dirt cheap while buying premium priced imported oil in Atlantic Canada.

In the longer term, there needs to be a push to diversify Alberta’s economy and be less reliant on oil. In the next 10 to 20 years there will continue to be demand for oil but beyond that? Who knows, but the world is FINALLY, at long last catching on to the idea that burning fossil fuels is causing climate change and it’s only going to get worse. Eventually there will be a move away from fossil fuels.

So what to diversify into? I don’t know, but with Calgary having a 30% vacancy rate of office space, marketing Calgary as a place to do business rather than GROSSLY overpriced Toronto or Vancouver would be a good start. Remember CP Rail moving their head office from Montreal to Calgary last decade? How about Greyhound Canada that’s been in Calgary for years? For many years I heard a lot of doom and gloom about how London, where I live, was losing a lot of manufacturing jobs and the local economy was going from bad to worse. Well guess what? A lot of new economy tech jobs having been coming to London and the economy here is doing just fine. Back to the west, Calgary is a great city to live in and do business, it has great potential and should be marketed as such. The same goes for Edmonton and other towns and cities in Alberta.

#212 crazyfox on 10.23.19 at 10:54 pm

#170 the ryguy on 10.23.19 at 8:13 pm

Oh God no, its just as misguided here and it would be a disaster for Alberta if they tried, especially 2025 and beyond for multiple reasons of which investment would dry up and roughly 20% of the population would leave.

I address why further here:

#171 crazyfox on 10.23.19 at 5:37 am

And here:

#214 crazyfox on 10.23.19 at 11:49 am

#213 DON on 10.23.19 at 11:01 pm

#45 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 1:32 pm

#36 baloney Sandwitch on 10.23.19 at 1:14 pm
Alberta rednecks dreaming of peak oil are tripping. Oil prices are in secular decline – reason, too much supply, the rise of alternatives and the imminent climate reckoning. Once mars-a-lago is underwater no one will be arguing.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I take it you are hypocrisy-free and use absolutely no fossil fuels then, whatsoever (only travel by bicycle, heat with electricity proven to be 100% carbon free, purchase nothing made with plastic, etc)?
******************************

You dealt with the climate change hypocrisy issue. But what about the first part?

“Oil prices are in secular decline – reason, too much supply, the rise of alternatives” and global slowdown.

#214 TC on 10.23.19 at 11:12 pm

Repo Market???????

$120 billion of liquidity per day?! What is The Fed and Garth not telling us?

#215 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 11:17 pm

#198 Cooby on 10.23.19 at 10:14 pm
Isn’t it laughable how both Quebec and Alberta separatists are so certain the Americans will respect their language, their culture, their oil sands? What a bunch of twits. They’ll find themselves subjugated, if not entirely absorbed, by the Americans. Hire the US for your defence, you say? I don’t think so, buddy. You’ll be their cell mate, so don’t drop the soap.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Cooby – you must be smoking a doobie. Unbeknownst to you:

– Both USA and AB have english as their primary language
– Most Canadians (in all provinces but QC) watch /read / interact with / shop 99% American culture
– The Americans already provide 90% of the real defence of Canada through their contributions to NORAD (vs ours)

You fools aren’t even trying any more…

#216 DON on 10.23.19 at 11:19 pm

#56 BillyBob on 10.23.19 at 2:32 pm

I definitely observe that one of the many factors fuelling the white hot rage is the sheer dismissiveness expressed by those not affected in the slightest. Witness the comments about “fossil fuel in decline”, and the conceit that the “world is moving off oil”. Which is laughable in either its ignorance or naiveté. Every day I go to work I burn hundreds of tons of fossil fuels moving people vast distances. Every week my LinkedIn box is filled with recruiters begging me to come to China, Africa, Vietnam, and on and on to ply my experience to meet the insatiable demand for pilots and air travel.

There are no viable battery-powered commercial aircraft. There are no solar-powered cargo ships. The internet does not run on wind power. Alternative energy sources are nowhere near being able to supplant oil, and that is not to lack of will or policy as the Greens will have you believe. There is simply nothing other than nuclear that has the same calorific value of fossil fuels to power our current way of life.

… As one quote astutely said, now go recharge your iPhone on Alberta energy.

****************************
To start I charge my stuff on hydro electric power. Their are alternatives.

Two:
Other sources are now where near being able to supplant oil. Once upon a time I am sure people didn’t believe there was anything beyond steam trains and horses and the odd Unicorn. Technology is advancing at a faster rate than before, who knows what is around the corner.

When the TMX is twinned and things remain the same, who will you blame then? It was the Alberta NDPs fault that things went South when they weren’t in power. Now Kenney is there and now it is Trudeau’s fault for what buying a pipeline. Holy shit,,,I want your Christmas list.

#217 Rexx Rock on 10.23.19 at 11:22 pm

Its sad but Alberta will become like the Maritime provinces.People will learn to live in poverty then die.Many will leave for B.C. or Ontario to seek a better life.Alberta oil needs to get to the East and West.Alberta and Saskatchewan should leave for the USA if they don’t get what they need to survive and prosper.Sad but its come down to this.

#218 Keith on 10.23.19 at 11:24 pm

@ #188 Past the Peak

Well done, missed the point again. Let he or she who is completely without hypocrisy cast the first stone. Must be tough being perfectly true to all of your values all of the time while sharing the planet with other human beings. What a giant ego you have.

#219 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 11:25 pm

#199 john m on 10.23.19 at 10:17 pm
..get a grip Alberta and enjoy the efforts Canadian politicians have made to help!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ummm…what help is that?

– Cancelling or obstructing the two other pipelines that were ready to go when the Libs took power in 2015?

– So bungling TMX that the owners sold it to Gov’t for a killing, but said Gov’t hasn’t done anything – not even showing up in court to defend it in the last case (note to the dimwitted -> a politician saying “we will build this” does not in fact equal it being built)

– Creating Bill C69 which spells death for any new energy infrastructure

– Creating Bill C48 which bans oil tanker traffic for Canadian exports but does nothing to limit other tanker traffic from say Alaska to travel through the same waters.

– No meaningful assistance to AB during the last 5 years which have been almost a continuous recession, with at least 100K lost jobs. Still considered a “have” province and no funds to assist, while QC gets $13B and boasts of a balanced budget.

Is that the help you are referring to?

#220 Sanity on 10.23.19 at 11:27 pm

If anyone is delusional enough to think that by harming our own economy we’re making any contribution to lower global carbon emissions look at this website:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

Good luck getting the Chinese to do anything they don’t want. Their game plan is to supplant the USA as the global superpower and they’re not going to slow down for anything (if they can help it). They have a middle class larger than the entire USA population and the largest car market in the world.

Destroying our resource industries is an act of self harm. The carbon tax is a cash grab.

People really need to step outside of their thought paradigm and realize that we’ve already exported all of the West’s heavily polluting industries to Asia. What more should we do? Get out the horse and cart and some candles?

#221 ShawnG in TO on 10.23.19 at 11:33 pm

– first, apologies to Garth, another useless comment here

politicians have this democracy thing figured out. spend money on the 90% of the population and let 10% pay for it. Alberta doesn’t like it, but look we just had an election, democracy.

it’s not fair. this TO guy, living in downtown no less, thinks it’s theft.

and what’s in the comments, and social media in general, today is disgusting. hard working people of Alberta are suffering, mostly from brain dead policies. not only is rest of canada not helping, they’re actually mocking and cheering. Alberta has every right to be angry. turn off the taps i say.

> #18 Les Deux Solitudes on 10.23.19 at 11:51 am
> Day after election… Husky lays of hundreds…. SNC/Lavalin stock jumps 14%…..

snc lavalin stock is up because corruption won, and supported by a strong quebec protectionist party to ensure crime will pay. husky lays off hundreds because nep jr won, with support of 2 environmental terrorist parties to ensure our most valuable resource will never realize their true worth. sure, there’s no relation.

#222 fishman on 10.23.19 at 11:37 pm

Boy oh boy were the prairie boys mad at the Newfies last nite on Facebook. Turncoats the whole works. Voting for the enemy after coming out to the Patch for work. At least it took a little heat off us back stabbing B.C.ers.
In most cases of such aggravation I’d say take a pill. In this case I recommend an Albertan home grown salve, petroleum jelly. Both coastal peoples have found it highly effective mitigating the pain of say Churchill Falls, east coast cod, Atlantic salmon, Columbia River Treaty, Softwood tariffs,transfers to Quebec,B.C. salmon runs, etc,etc.
In all honesty Albertans, your pain is a result of the oil(tar)sands. You got to get rid of the sand, not the oil.
Keep the sand away from Lil Potato. Then he can’t add sand to the vaseline. Be like us coastal peoples. Vaseline from the Feds, straight up!

#223 PastThePeak on 10.23.19 at 11:39 pm

#179 Frank on 10.23.19 at 8:42 pm
The price of oil is low compared to when the boom times were happening and jobs were a plenty in oil rich Alberta, Tim Horton’s was paying pretty good too. Now the oil price is low and will be kept low to slow down the EV revolution, but it wont. Not sure what the point of building a pipeline will be which will bring more oil into a market that already has lot’s of oil. It’s all politics at this point and nothing else.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here’s the thing Frank. In a market economy, whether it should be built or not isn’t something you need to worry about. It isn’t your money or decision. Private money was happy to pay for it all – it just needed a clear process & when approved, guarantees that it would be build and the rule of law upheld.

You see, this is how a market works:
– A private company works to determine if it can make a profit building the pipeline. It works with suppliers, their clients, does tons of work on markets, determines the costs, compliances, environmental work required, etc.

– The private oil companies determine if they have a market at the end of the pipeline, what the transmission costs are, if they can commit, etc.

– The gov’t is involved to ensure regulatory, environmental compliance, property rights upheld, the general “follow the law” stuff, etc. They may determine that it is a project in national interest, and that they will pay for some items (maritime protection investment) as they will make tax revenues from the successful venture.

These are private businesses, putting up the vast majority of the money, and unlike government (or SNC Lavalin), live & die by their investment & operational decisions. If it isn’t a success, they may go bankrupt or be sold for a discount. The investors lose.

You see Frank you – an Internet commentator not in the industry, with no knowledge and with no involvement in the project – need not burden yourself with the decision of whether it makes financial sense.

#224 DON on 10.23.19 at 11:42 pm

#114 MF on 10.23.19 at 6:02 pm

Hi Alberta,

Ontario Millennial here.

A few things: A Conservative has been elected in my north GTA riding for many terms. I’m pro oil, pro pipeline and pro AB. Always have been.

The absolute hatred and vitriol being directed towards us in Ontario (or the rest of Canada) is dispicable. You’ve got allies all over the place. Don’t alienate them with your BS, US style us versus them politics. Be smart. Alberta will rise again, but the rest of us need to support it in the meantime.

MF
****************8 ball

Nicely put!

#225 Paul on 10.23.19 at 11:45 pm

Of an equalization “pie” of $19 billion for the current fiscal year, Alberta will receive none.Apr 11, 2018

Quebec will get more than $13 billion in equalization payments in the coming year, an increase of almost $1.4 billion from the year before. Federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau announced the amounts the government will pay to the provinces and territories in 2019-20, totalling almost $20 billion.Dec 10, 2018

Sounds Fair?

#226 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.23.19 at 11:58 pm

#149 Crazyfox
Tired of your long posts.
Can you just give us an excecutive summary.
Much obliged

#227 DON on 10.24.19 at 12:00 am

#120 acdel on 10.23.19 at 6:13 pm

Kennie had a point; we will give it two years then after that the gloves are off. C’est la vie!

*********************
In two years Kenney will be in election mode and will sit on it for two years. In the meantime he will run around and keep the issue alive without really doing anything about it. Political strategy at best.

#228 Sue on 10.24.19 at 12:05 am

I think people should educate themselves a bit on the transfer payments. Also we Albertans should give free daycare and free university etc to our citizens as quebec does. Maybe we could actually receive a transfer payment for a change. Anyway the hate for albertans is coming through pretty clear tonite and my suggestion to fellow albertans is to walk away from the comments from the haters. Garth I thank you for all you have done here but cant stand to read this garbage in the comments. Albertans are fed up and this is not going away. I know not all of canada hates us, but thats clearly the message we are receiving these last few days. Should be an interesting few years
Again thank you garth

#229 NoName on 10.24.19 at 12:09 am

Interesting read, even rats learn to drive “cars”. Acording to study mouse become less stress after learning to drive…

As hypothesized, the animals living in the enriched environment performed better at the driving test, indicating that they did a better job at learning a new complex skill. The enriched rats also maintained a strong interest in the car, even after the reward of food was removed.

https://www.iflscience.com/brain/teaching-rats-to-drive-tiny-cars-helps-them-relax-scientists-discover-/amp.html

#230 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.24.19 at 12:16 am

#200 Stahom on 10.23.19 at 10:21 pm
Maybe before all the extreme exit talk a Alberta styled “Boston Tea Party” of a coordinated period of halting all personal and corporate federal tax payments thus choking CRA’s administration let alone the revenues.

As an Albertan I don’t know what the big rush is to get this product out of the ground at these prices; we are just one big event in the Middle East and prices soar. It is a massive reserve.

If one wants to stay in AB build your financial fortress by being frugal and suck it up. Sell your ski boat, sled and trailer, maybe should have saved for a rainy day, eh? The pioneers of the west would be ashamed of the whining.

Talk of violent defence of this exit idea is easy until the sons and daughters start dying. Enough already.
—————
Congrats.
Post of the day.

#231 Brad Malo on 10.24.19 at 12:25 am

Come on time to cough it up Canada. If not we’re taking Saskatchewan with us

-Albertan

#232 Two-thirds on 10.24.19 at 12:31 am

History shows how some of these secession go.

Texas is an interesting example: originally part of Mexico, but isolated from the centre and marginalized (real or otherwise) by the federal government, it declared and achieved independence, and eventually joined the USA.

Since today is a tin-foil-hat-fest, would a US-backed, newly-independent Canadian province be prevented to leave Confederation by Canadian law as described?

What would the US have to gain by supporting this?

I need a drink now…

#233 DON on 10.24.19 at 12:34 am

#170 the ryguy on 10.23.19 at 8:13 pm

#149 crazyfox on 10.23.19 at 7:30 pm
————————————————-
With comments like yours you wonder why Albertans are getting angry? Yeesh..dude you’re from Sask..you mean to tell me that Sask is a perfect utopia? L..O..Effin..L.

Kudos to the other poster that put up the Peter Zeihan article. Peter has multiple videos on youtube explaining how an Alberta seperation would go..jist of his thoughts is that its terrible for Canada but awesome for Alberta.
*******************
What did the Fox say that was so offensive and untruthful?

People need to start hearing criticism and pull up their boot straps and get it done. Change can be shitty, but it’s constant so be like the homesteaders and suck it up!

#234 Brad Malo on 10.24.19 at 12:50 am

#153 Land Locked on 10.23.19 at 7:41 pm
“Alberta will never pull out. ”

That’s where you’re wrong my friend, Alberta will pull out just like Trudeau Sr. should have done.

#235 DON on 10.24.19 at 12:51 am

#173 Nonplused on 10.23.19 at 8:17 pm

Trudeau is now truly in well over his head, and without a life jacket. I would say it’s a reasonable bet that parliament dissolves within a year. If not, Alberta has a referendum within 2 years. If Quebec can do it, so can Alberta.

********************

Another thought, Trudeau has to be on his best behaviour now, the NDP are broke and have a toe hold on influence. They need to be seen as a viable and the spotlight while limited is still spotlight on the national stage.

Trudeau has committed to TMX, only first nations can really stand in the way and some are trying to buy it. Construction was set to begin prior to the election or so they said. Trudeau even bought a pipeline.

#236 Smoking Man on 10.24.19 at 12:59 am

James on 10.23.19 at 2:39 pm
#163 Smoking Man on 10.23.19 at 1:19 am

Hey James, Mf

I’m living in Trump’s America.
You are Bend over, T2 is coming for your last cent then your spent toilet paper when toilet paper can not be found in the stores. Welcome to socialism..
I’m safe. Saw it long time ago. Alien DNA thing.
Enjoy this tune.
https://youtu.be/c5BL4RNFr58
______________________________________
You are pathetic Old Man, you must be wonderful to be around you cranky old diaper soiled curmudgeon. Have you not anything positive ever to say?
I am not moving back to the USA as I, unlike you have family, children, parents and many relatives here. We are a family and families stick together through thick and thin. We will eventually unload T2 and his cronies, politics is a cycle, one day your it and the next day your shit. Garth knows all about cycles of politics call him for an update on how this political stuff works.
Besides the crime rate and homelessness is your area is staggering. I do not want to have to go around with a concealed weapon, constantly looking over my shoulder. I like my freedom here without a hot piece of iron in my belt!
…..

No homeless in Corona Del Mar, south of PCH.. Cops here are Bad Ass. Just big boats and Lear jet owners, and amazing house parties. They love Canadian xpats the think Trump Rocks in private of course..

Hell , you just got to blend in with the Savage left if you want love.,

I got a Hillary 2020 bumper sticker on my New Red Tesla.

They are to stupid to realize the red car is a statement.

#237 TRUMP2020 on 10.24.19 at 1:01 am

You can thank T2 cuz I am going to quit my job and have a bunch of kids.

Big Money nowadays in welfare checks and baby bonuses.

Thanks T2 ….. you all suckers get to work and pay your taxes.

I’m gonna live on east street now.

#238 Concerned Reader on 10.24.19 at 1:11 am

What a disaster of a comments section today. I was hoping to find some well thought out points about the SK/AB predicament but instead found a cesspool of conspiracy theories, half truths and knee jerk rage. If anyone wants to discuss a realistic option for what SK/AB should do I’m all ears.

#239 Unshackle Me on 10.24.19 at 1:27 am

The country of Western Canada can also punch a line corridor across BC by force . As a sovereign country we have a right to access the sea for trade, plenty of international precedents. We don’t need to be beholden to the US for everything. Obviously the US will be a much better partner the Eastern Socialist Canada. We want freedom from Liberal tyranny., And inevitably we’ll take it. By force if necessary. I’m mid 69’s and all in for a bloody fight. My grand children will glory in my martyrdom. I’d gladly die fighting this war.

#240 Where's The West's Money Trudeau? on 10.24.19 at 1:50 am

Re: #159 Calgary Cowboy on 10.23.19 at 7:49 pm

I signed and I’ll get my guns ready to defend my good AB neighbours.
Time for a change!!!!!

#241 Maxima on 10.24.19 at 2:39 am

I live in bc. My kids are Albertans. I am very sad that Husky Oil that is foreign owned has laid off hundreds of hard working Albertans. Husky just was awarded a huge tax break and then they lay off folks a day after the election. Kenney must deny them their tax break due to the layoffs they executed. Also, if Husky brings over foreign workers to replace these Canadian workers… they must be sent back to wherever they came

#242 Maxima on 10.24.19 at 2:40 am

I live in bc. My kids are Albertans. I am very sad that Husky Oil that is foreign owned has laid off hundreds of hard working Albertans. Husky just was awarded a huge tax break and then they lay off folks a day after the election. Kenney must deny them their tax break due to the layoffs they executed. Also, if Husky brings over foreign workers to replace these Canadian workers… they must be sent back to wherever they came from.

#243 mark on 10.24.19 at 3:29 am

Oh man, I can’t believe someone actually wrote that. What a lunatic. I bet was someone who is always talking about gold.

#244 SimplyPut7 on 10.24.19 at 4:29 am

Scheer did not resonate with Ontario or Quebec, which means he has to go or else the Conservatives will never win a majority and the Oil & Gas industry will not have a government that truly cares about their future.

The second problem is even if Liberals and NDP supported all the pipelines Alberta wanted, the US is producing more oil than it did in 1970 which is suppressing oil prices around the world. Canada needs higher oil prices to make investments in oil sands more appealing to investors.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38992
http://graphics.wsj.com/oil-barrel-breakdown/

The third problem is the electric car, transit and uber/lyft. The more densely populated cities become, the less people need cars to get them from point A to B. Those who do decide to buy a car may purchase hybrids or electric vehicles.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-09-20/electric-vehicle-market-so-far-belongs-to-china

There could be structural changes to the Oil & Gas industry that may require Alberta to explore renewable energy to keep up with the changing demand for crude oil. Spending money on research and development to come up with new industries Alberta can use to create and maintain highly skilled well-paid workers in the province may be a better investment to than waiting until the last minute to make the jump into new industries once people accept the fact that certain Oil & Gas jobs may be gone for good.

#245 Kato on 10.24.19 at 4:33 am

#173 Nonplused on 10.23.19 at 8:17 pm

Sask born and raised, former-CAF here.

“The idea that Ontario could send a bunch of (1)Antifa, (2)Millennials, and (3)transgenders to Alberta and win a war is preposterous”…
Answered in order: 1) Never seen it, 2) Denotes age 22-38, so mostly accurate, 3) Very few, but I commend those that are trans and also serve.

Your Armed Forces recruit coast to coast, rural and urban (including Alberta, in fact).

This has been mentioned by other commenters, but the military doesn’t have to convoy from Parliament Hill… there are bases and airfields throughout AB. The soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen that work there are your neighbors; their kids go to school with your kids. I understand that you’re looking at this in a History Channel “moving red arrows” sort of way, but these are actual people you’re talking about.

To the point about rifle toting hunters in 4x4s, that would be abandoned in favour of roadside bombs after day 1. A LAVIII is proofed against rifle fire and has an effective range of a mile and a half.

Anyone who has seen what a civil war or guerrilla war does to a region and it’s people would not court them as an alternative to a recession. Be angry, call for a referendum, but leave the .270 in the safe.

#246 BillyBob on 10.24.19 at 6:16 am

“NOTICE: Any comment promoting, forecasting or attempting to justify a civil war or armed conflict in Canada from this point forward will be deleted. – Garth”

I woke this morning, after learning of the unexpected death of a close friend yesterday. Pretty low to begin with, and then I find my words have been chosen as the poster child for this warning.

Of course our good host can post any old thing anywhere he likes on his own blog. But it is beyond bizarre to attach this to what was intended to promote precisely the opposite of the scenario warned against. Many posts far more inflammatory have followed. The blog post itself contains the words “shoot its way out” as Alberta’s alternative to legal separation!

For the record, to be unequivocally clear: I do not promote, forecast, or justify any sort of of armed conflict as a resolution to ANYTHING. I hope with all my heart that nothing of the sort ever occurs on Canadian soil, even though I officially departed it many years ago.

My comments were simply intended as a warning: based on long personal experience and observation all over the world, at times uncomfortably closely, I can state that the road from highly functioning society to near complete breakdown is far, far shorter than almost everyone believes. The coalescence of shared ideas, values, laws is infinitely more fragile than you think.

I think it is far better to be reminded of this uncomfortable fact, than to believe “it’s different here”. Which I THOUGHT was consistent with the thinking of this blog.

I will continue to observe and reflect from the outside, but I do not find the wilful ignorance and at times, smug dismissiveness of the growing discontent in Alberta – displayed in full force in the comments here and many other outlets – to be encouraging.

As one poster said, helpfully demonstrating my point, “How naive, it’s almost cute.”

#247 Stan Brooks on 10.24.19 at 6:51 am

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-solid-retirement-system-may-183312421.html

Canada’s Solid Retirement System May Be Why We’re So Willing To Get Into Debt

That is not an April fool article/joke folks.
Maybe ‘generous’ pensions need to be cut in order to sustain debt levels?

That less than 1 k monthly with CPP and OAS combined on average per persons (taxable) which is OK for 40 % rent on one bedroom condo (no utilities included) sounds like a really good income for ‘wealthy’ retirees.

Cheers,

#248 Question man on 10.24.19 at 7:22 am

Does Canada even have a military?

#249 M.T. on 10.24.19 at 7:31 am

***Whoa. This is sedition, n’est-ce pas? How did it happen?

No, Garth, I alluded to this yesterday, maybe you, or most other readers, don’t read the right websites, but hypotheticals and thought-experiments like this are extremely common in certain circles. It’s not meant to be taken seriously as an actual call to action.

#250 Larry on 10.24.19 at 7:49 am

DELETED

#251 Dharma Bum on 10.24.19 at 7:52 am

This entire situation is soooooooo American.

Us and Them.

East and West.

English and French.

Union and Confederate.

All screaming for civil war.

Canadians like to hold themselves in such high regard and believe that they are morally and intellectually superior to Americans.

Reading the rhetoric in today’s comments section just proves we are the same vicious animal. Jealousy, hatred, tribalism, divisiveness and polarization rule us.

#252 crowdedelevatorfartz on 10.24.19 at 8:22 am

@# 248 Question Man
“Does Canada even have a military?”
+++++

Please send your question ( in triplicate ) to Ottawa.
Allow 4-6 months for a reply.
Due to the extremely close polling numbers…..
Our bureaucrats are very busy cancelling the shredding contracts we had set in motion before Oct 21st.

#253 LP on 10.24.19 at 8:27 am

#251 Dharma Bum

Yup!

#254 Remembrancer on 10.24.19 at 8:40 am

#249 M.T. on 10.24.19 at 7:31 am
***Whoa. This is sedition, n’est-ce pas? How did it happen?

No, Garth, I alluded to this yesterday, maybe you, or most other readers, don’t read the right websites, but hypotheticals and thought-experiments like this are extremely common in certain circles. It’s not meant to be taken seriously as an actual call to action.
———————————
The right websites? Not an actual call to action? Says you in a walk back of someone else’s post. Even that brand of basement dweller mil-porn fantasy letters to Soldier of Fortune in the real world can have consequences – that some of us have witnessed unfortunately on our own soil and has countlessly been replayed by our neighbours to the south…

Words have consequences – so maybe reset your thermostat and consider what you are saying?

#255 Polozified on 10.24.19 at 8:40 am

Wexit fever will last until Kenney releases his budget. Which is today, I believe?

#256 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.24.19 at 8:56 am

#246 BillyBob on 10.24.19 at 6:16 am sez, in part:

“My comments were simply intended as a warning: based on long personal experience and observation all over the world, at times uncomfortably closely, I can state that the road from highly functioning society to near complete breakdown is far, far shorter than almost everyone believes. The coalescence of shared ideas, values, laws is infinitely more fragile than you think.”

———————————————–
I would like to expand out on a bit of a tangent from this thought if I may.

The thin veneer of civilization, the good life we have at the moment, is largely due to cheap energy and other products derived from fossil fuels. This dream of a clean, green utopia where we keep on living with the same freedoms and high standards we currently enjoy is just that. A dream.

Make no mistake. The Greenies want us to change our entire way of life. In essence we will be going back to an 1850’s type agrarian society, or worse. There will be death. There will be pain.

The world cannot run on fairy dust and unicorn farts like the Gretchen’s of the world believe. Their understanding of the “problem” is so shallow.

#257 Incubus on 10.24.19 at 9:00 am

I am from Québec, if you could read what they said about oil, you would have nausea.

They have no clue about economics, they think money appears by magic or just milk the rich.

Alberta and saskatchewan should start negociation with the US gouvernment to become a new state.

Canadian, would have the choice to accept to let them export freely their oil ans gaz or face secession .

I imagine the impact on the Canadian dollar, it would drop like a stone in water.

Facing the choice, I guess the would choose de pipelines.

#258 Enlightened on 10.24.19 at 9:08 am

#251 Dharma…so true!

#259 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 9:15 am

#218 Keith on 10.23.19 at 11:24 pm
@ #188 Past the Peak

Well done, missed the point again. Let he or she who is completely without hypocrisy cast the first stone. Must be tough being perfectly true to all of your values all of the time while sharing the planet with other human beings. What a giant ego you have.
____

Keith, all that PTP is saying, is don’t crap on fossil fuels until you’ve weaned yourself from them – or at least done SOMETHING to knock down your footprint. This was aimed at the OP “#36 baloney Sandwitch”.

Talk is cheap, actions speak for themselves.

My guess is you’ve done next to nothing to curb your conventional energy use – and that’s totally cool and normal. Just don’t extend the pointy finger towards your neighbours with any kind of advice until you’ve knocked a good 15-25% off your own usage.

#260 AB Boxster on 10.24.19 at 9:34 am

Interesting comments Garth.

Many of them that suggest that Alberta needs to diversify from oil (we already have) or that the price of oil is the problem (it’s not) or that they are happy to have the province leave (works for me), or that we are a bunch of whiners (I think you mean Quebecers) who need to work in the incredibly wonderful Canadian system.

It’s a tremendous validation to Albertans who are some of the most hard working, industrious and generous people in the world. We produce a product that every single person who vilifies the province, uses every day, without thought or care.

Your hypocrisy is monumental.

You think nothing of driving your new SUV, filling it up with cheap gasoline each week, turning up your thermostat when required, taking your kids to school, soccer, dance class, Alberta hating lessons, or whatever.

You think that you do your part to save the world by putting your recycling our once a week. What stewards of the environment you are.

And then you vilify the product that you use for your lifestyle, and the people in the province the produce it.

And when the province of of Alberta asks for help, not in the form of cash or handouts or political privilege like Quebec or every other pathetic province in the failing confederation, but in the form of “hey could you maybe stop killing our industry that make it impossible for us to sell our product to a world that demands more of it”,
all we are met with is indifference.

Alberta has played by your progressive game.
We elected an NDP government that pushed its idiotic left wing agenda. We were the first province to introduce the carbon tax you all love so much.

We have cut C02 emmisions to satisfy your global warming agenda.

The result has been nothing but continued vilification from almost every national leader, and indifference and vitriol from the rest of Canada.

Canada is a failed nation.

Alberta will rise and become strong once again regardless of whether we are in Canada or not.

And whether the nation of Canada is successful or hurt as a result of what Alberta does, really, now, most of Albertan’s really don’t frankly care.

#261 Remembrancer on 10.24.19 at 9:35 am

Branding TMX as a clean energy driver is an interesting twist but should make pragmatic sense to all but the most rabid of ideologues – use today’s infrastructure to help fund tomorrow’s…

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/liberals-tmx-pipeline-could-fund-dollar500-million-a-year-in-clean-energy-projects/ar-AAJhioP?ocid=ientp

#262 James on 10.24.19 at 9:39 am

#236 Smoking Man on 10.24.19 at 12:59 am

James on 10.23.19 at 2:39 pm
#163 Smoking Man on 10.23.19 at 1:19 am
Hey James, Mf
I’m living in Trump’s America.
You are Bend over, T2 is coming for your last cent then your spent toilet paper when toilet paper can not be found in the stores. Welcome to socialism..
I’m safe. Saw it long time ago. Alien DNA thing.
Enjoy this tune.
https://youtu.be/c5BL4RNFr58
______________________________________
You are pathetic Old Man, you must be wonderful to be around you cranky old diaper soiled curmudgeon. Have you not anything positive ever to say?
I am not moving back to the USA as I, unlike you have family, children, parents and many relatives here. We are a family and families stick together through thick and thin. We will eventually unload T2 and his cronies, politics is a cycle, one day your it and the next day your shit. Garth knows all about cycles of politics call him for an update on how this political stuff works.
Besides the crime rate and homelessness is your area is staggering. I do not want to have to go around with a concealed weapon, constantly looking over my shoulder. I like my freedom here without a hot piece of iron in my belt!
…..
No homeless in Corona Del Mar, south of PCH.. Cops here are Bad Ass. Just big boats and Lear jet owners, and amazing house parties. They love Canadian xpats the think Trump Rocks in private of course..
Hell , you just got to blend in with the Savage left if you want love.,
I got a Hillary 2020 bumper sticker on my New Red Tesla.
They are to stupid to realize the red car is a statement.
________________________________________
Hilarious Old Man, You don not live in Corona del Mar! Your living in Baywood which is in Newport Beach. Do you not even know where the city corporation limits are in your area? San Joaquin Hills Road & Miguel Rd is the border. There are almost zero apartments / condos for rent in Corona del Mar. Ninety nine percent of the rentals are homes between $3900 to $4500 with the top ones at $16000 to $25000 per month. I don’t think you can afford that or would be stupid enough to pay that.

Baha ha ha ha a Red Tesla, baha ha ha what a hypocrite Trump would throw you under a bus for driving a Tesla you old green tree hugging curmudgeon.

A Tesla…………………slmao

#263 Penny Henny on 10.24.19 at 9:43 am

#99 Niagara Region on 10.23.19 at 5:16 pm
Topic: Declining Real Estate Prices
I have a group of houses in the Niagara Region on a watchlist, since I’d like to buy a single-family home at some point. Today I noticed that one-half the houses on my watchlist dropped in price, anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000 each, literally overnight. Might this decline be a harbinger of things to come, given the election results?
/////////////////

Yes there was quite a bit of ‘optimistic’ pricing from the sellers the last few month and I too have been noticing the price drops.

#264 PastThePeak on 10.24.19 at 9:43 am

#202 Kilt on 10.23.19 at 10:27 pm
“Albertan’s feel betrayed!”
Go figure, you only vote one way and you expect any of the other parties to give a crap about you? Especially when they know they can never win your vote.
Sheer is the one who betrayed the West. He did nothing to win over the rest of Canada. It was golden opportunity.
I say “there’s the door, and take Saskatchewan with you. Oh, and we’d be happy to buy your oil, at the same discount the Americans are paying.”

Sorry, this feels like a team of 10 year-olds losing a soccer game and blaming the refs. Even though they lost 8-0.

Kilt.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But somehow you feel your response is that of an adult?

#265 PastThePeak on 10.24.19 at 9:50 am

#218 Keith on 10.23.19 at 11:24 pm
@ #188 Past the Peak

Well done, missed the point again. Let he or she who is completely without hypocrisy cast the first stone. Must be tough being perfectly true to all of your values all of the time while sharing the planet with other human beings. What a giant ego you have.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am guessing you actually don’t know what hypocrisy is, and hence your confusion. Based on what we see and read, I would say very few people in the world understand what it is anymore.

I don’t criticism and demonize something (and the people that produce it) – when I use it freely of my own choice.

#266 PastThePeak on 10.24.19 at 9:54 am

#224 DON on 10.23.19 at 11:42 pm
#114 MF on 10.23.19 at 6:02 pm

Hi Alberta,

Ontario Millennial here.

A few things: A Conservative has been elected in my north GTA riding for many terms. I’m pro oil, pro pipeline and pro AB. Always have been.

The absolute hatred and vitriol being directed towards us in Ontario (or the rest of Canada) is dispicable. You’ve got allies all over the place. Don’t alienate them with your BS, US style us versus them politics. Be smart. Alberta will rise again, but the rest of us need to support it in the meantime.

MF
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That is a reasonable post MF. Unfortunately you can’t seem to see the “vitriol” that is cast from the GTA to AB. Hence the problem will not get solved.

#267 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 10:02 am

Alberta is probably the hardest working Province in Canada. They have spent decades in the #1 slot for labour participation. They also have a history of paying some of the highest wages. Much better fertility rates than the National average too, way better than Eastern Provinces. Alberta typically also has the youngest population in Canada.

If Wexit ever happened, that would be the end of any kind of fiscal Conservatism in what remained of Canada. The new Canada would consist of a bunch of older folks who half the time don’t work, half the time don’t pay taxes, never had kids, and want lots of free stuff. Economic Immigration would get destroyed due to high taxes low wages, and crap job market. Meanwhile, young family minded folks would eventually be streaming to the exits.

IMHO, a full on Wexit, (if the West managed to survive on its own), would doom the rest of Canada to a demographic and financial death within 3-4 decades. The new Canada would quickly run out of solid taxpayers when the youth/ econ. immigrants bail.

#268 not 1st on 10.24.19 at 10:08 am

So Kenny is announcing austerity after Notely ran off a $60B increase in the debt during a recession. How TF she got her hands on power is amazing and the mismangement of the economy in just 4 yrs. Sounds just like Trudeau.

So this is the perfect scenario for Trudeau the savior. He is all about jobs, well some were lost yesterday in Calgary after the other 200,000 that went. He could float an amendment in the throne speech to claw back some equalization to AB, couple billion even. That would certainly be the right gesture. Will it happen, hell no cause Quebec would scream bloody murder.

And then people tell us just to get over it.

#269 Let's work it out on 10.24.19 at 10:15 am

Remember when it was widely predicted that the price of oil would hit and stay at $200 a barrel?
The price of oil is low even now that most economies are doing relatively well, and bringing more supply to the market is not going to increase the price.

#270 Glengarry Girl on 10.24.19 at 10:24 am

I read daily and am most surprised how little discussion there is about the fact that this economy is not healthy. I wonder if it’s just human nature, whistling past the grave yard kind of thing.

BREAKING: The New York Fed announced it is increasing its temporary overnight repo operations to AT LEAST $120 billion a day from the current $75 billion.

Why would this be happening if we have a strong economy?

#271 Shannon O'connor on 10.24.19 at 10:41 am

I live in a riding here in Toronto and very little voted compared to other ridings. There are total 115,000 population here and only 30,000 total voted. For those that are adults, 18+ and are eligible to vote this is much less than the 66% voter turnout Canada wide number.

It looks like the voter turnout here is 45% to 50% at most. There was probably a 1 million to 2 million less voters this time compared to 2015 Canada’s election. Just like under Chretien and Martin Liberals they won with much less votes than prior years.

#272 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 10:42 am

#202 Kilt on 10.23.19 at 10:27 pm

Sheer is the one who betrayed the West. He did nothing to win over the rest of Canada.
___

Scheer got more votes than Trudeau did.

#273 PastThePeak on 10.24.19 at 10:47 am

#244 SimplyPut7 on 10.24.19 at 4:29 am

The third problem is the electric car, transit and uber/lyft. The more densely populated cities become, the less people need cars to get them from point A to B. Those who do decide to buy a car may purchase hybrids or electric vehicles.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-09-20/electric-vehicle-market-so-far-belongs-to-china
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just addressing your 3rd point. For certain EV’s are an option for some today, and improvements are coming. But the idea that there will be a rapid shift to EVs, and this will solve significant issues, is ignoring reality.

– Outside of China, EV’s have only been successful in markets with strong government subsidies (Ontario’s was recently as high as $14K/car back in the Wynne Liberal days). When subsidies have been withdrawn, EV sales have plunged. The vehicles are yet not cost effective. This has been the case for 10 years.

– Hybrids are fine (reduce fuel consumption at the cost of some additional complexity and overall more maintenance as a result), and have been cost effective for years (do not have or require subsidies). Unfortunately, auto companies mislead the narrative by lumping hybrids and pure EV’s into their bigger numbers. When an auto manufacturer says that their fleet will be “electrified by 2030” they mean mostly hybrids + some EVs.

– Uber/Lyft have been great for consumers, but the companies are not economically viable. They are both massively burning through cash after their IPO’s, and there is no clear path for sustainability. They seem to have bet on full autonomy as coming sooner than it likely will. May not survive in current form.

-EVs are only a net benefit from a fossil fuel consumption perspective if the electricity generation is mostly carbon free. Canada is a leader in most provinces (80% at the national level) – but many other countries are not as good shape. For everyone’s favourite China, they are building coal plants as fast as they can. The “carbon emissions” are simply shifted.

– EVs are no long term solution for very large cities anyways. Roads clogged with gasoline cars will be clogged with EVs. Micromobility and transit are required there.

#274 Justin S on 10.24.19 at 10:47 am

Here’s some terrifying math with Trudeau’s new luxury tax:

Let’s say you’re in the highest tax bracket and want a $120k vehicle or boat. Assume living in Ontario.

Cost of new toy with HST and 10% luxury tax = $120,000 + HST of $15,600 + 10% luxury tax $12,000 = $147,600 total cost

Now, if you’re in the highest tax bracket, in order to have $147,600 of after-tax cash to purchase this toy, you need to make $270,825 before-tax ($147,600 / 54.5%).

To summarize, a high income tax earner must make $270,825 of taxable income to buy a $120k vehicle/boat. That is completely f$%ked.

#275 AlbertaGuy in AB on 10.24.19 at 10:55 am

Re Quebec pipeline blockade

3 options seem apparent…have they been considered?

1. New Pipeline to Churchill terminal and tankers to eastern refinery

2. New Pipeline to Lake Ontario terminal and tankers up the St Lawrence to eastern refinery (with big We Love AB Oil banners on each tanker passing through)

3. More oil by rail across PQ to eastern refinery

#276 PastThePeak on 10.24.19 at 10:55 am

#260 AB Boxster on 10.24.19 at 9:34 am

Well said AB. All so true. You do have support and empathy from those of us in rural Ontario!

Unfortunately, urban Ontario just can’t grasp the hypocrisy of their words and actions, and may never. Perhaps if a recession hits and their $1M mortgages get a bit hard to handle they might have some humility…but I doubt it.

#267 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 10:02 am
– YEP

#277 Votewexit on 10.24.19 at 11:00 am

I just joined ‘ votewexit.com’, the seperation movement is exploding. From zero to 260,000 members signed since the election and donations flooding in, the seperation movement is real. We have international right of access to the west coast. We have a great friend in America who’ll stand for liberty from oppression.

Garth you said we’d have to shoot our way out of the corrupt Liberal dictatorship. Just watch as momentum builds . Our actions are more than Gerry Butts and George Soros combined. We’ll be free from socialist tyranny without firing a shot because Trudeau lickspittles know we will if we have to. . “Just watch me”.

Delusion.ca. – Garth

#278 Don Mila on 10.24.19 at 11:02 am

Justin S, you are so right on the money. I will go one step further, what happens if you were forced to take out some RRSP or RRIF or sold a rental property than you are really getting financially milked.

For those that say they are rich or have the money who cares that he or she has to pay all those high taxes, if you knew about basic economics, it will impact everything from jobs lost, jobs not created to less overall total tax revenue falling to the government putting in new taxes to cover the shortfall of such economic and fiscally irresponsible policies.

The other side effect of this is they keep taxing and taxing and it will be never enough because the pie gets smaller or the money leaves the country or less future expansion or both happens.

I believe a luxury tax on boats were tried in the U.S. and it was a real failure and was cancelled because of all the job losses and lost total tax revenue.

#279 PastThePeak on 10.24.19 at 11:13 am

#270 Glengarry Girl on 10.24.19 at 10:24 am
I read daily and am most surprised how little discussion there is about the fact that this economy is not healthy. I wonder if it’s just human nature, whistling past the grave yard kind of thing.

BREAKING: The New York Fed announced it is increasing its temporary overnight repo operations to AT LEAST $120 billion a day from the current $75 billion.

Why would this be happening if we have a strong economy?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Multiple reasons, but some hard numbers (public & private combined) to consider:
Global GDP = ~$80T
Global debt = ~$250T
Global unfunded pension liabilities = ~$600T
(above does not include medical care unfunded liabilities)
Global total derivatives =~ $1 Quadrillion

Global debt is growing faster than GDP.

Then add the demographic “time bomb” issues that are impossible to alter (outside of you-know-what).

But sure…economy is just great…

#280 Don Guillermo on 10.24.19 at 11:13 am

#10 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.23.19 at 11:21 am
It’s hard to feel sorry for Albertans who have two F-150s in their driveway.
My advise:
Live within your means and start diversyfying your economy (and this does not mean produce more beef

*******************************************
Wow, your stereotyping of Alberta is typical of Trudeaus clownish government and much of the ROC. I moved to Calgary many years ago from Toronto and am sick of this attitude. I’m comfortably retired, don’t need or want any work but will support any attempt for Alberta independence. I would love to see other young people have access to the great opportunities Alberta has given me. By the way, Ford’s F-Series pickup remains by far the dominant vehicle of choice in Quebec and I drive a 911. File that in your stereotypical brain.

#281 the Jaguar on 10.24.19 at 11:16 am

#256 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.24.19 at 8:56 am

Fairy dust and unicorn farts. Classic. And so true.

#282 Land Locked on 10.24.19 at 11:18 am

Delusion.ca. – Garth

Garth as you are aware these things happen in steps, and the impact can can for generations. There will be extremes on both sides. However, we are on the path and where it leads is uncertain.

#283 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.24.19 at 11:20 am

I got this from car guru.
Used Ford F-150 By Year

Vehicle Deals Starting Price Total Available
2019 Ford F-150 28 Great Deals $5,225 9,410 listings
2018 Ford F-150 21 Great Deals $25,488 1,001 listings
2017 Ford F-150 22 Great Deals $22,800 842 listings
2016 Ford F-150 18 Great Deals $16,495 986 listings
2015 Ford F-150 23 Great Deals $2,000 403 listings
2014 Ford F-150 14 Great Deals $8,495 361 listings
2013 Ford F-150 21 Great Deals $5,800 339 listings
2012 Ford F-150 13 Great Deals $6,000 265 listings
2011 Ford F-150 14 Great Deals $5,900 219 listings
2010 Ford F-150 10 Great Deals $2,995 289 listings
This is for Edmonton only.
Draw your own conclusions

#284 David Hawke on 10.24.19 at 11:21 am

Wow, the wingnuts are out in full force and it’s not even a full moon!

From the mentality of the commentators, I have formed two predictions: Firstly, Alberta will never separate

Secondly, sadly the days of Garth putting up with this nonsense are numbered, prepare for the demise of an excellent morning read. :(

#285 Don Guillermo on 10.24.19 at 11:28 am

#260 AB Boxster on 10.24.19 at 9:34 am
Interesting comments Garth.
Many of them that suggest that Alberta needs to diversify from oil (we already have) or that the price of oil is the problem (it’s not) or that they are happy to have the province leave (works for me), or that we are a bunch of whiners (I think you mean Quebecers) who need to work in the incredibly wonderful Canadian system.
It’s a tremendous validation to Albertans who are some of the most hard working, industrious and generous people in the world. We produce a product that every single person who vilifies the province, uses every day, without thought or care.
Your hypocrisy is monumental.
You think nothing of driving your new SUV, filling it up with cheap gasoline each week, turning up your thermostat when required, taking your kids to school, soccer, dance class, Alberta hating lessons, or whatever.
You think that you do your part to save the world by putting your recycling our once a week. What stewards of the environment you are.
And then you vilify the product that you use for your lifestyle, and the people in the province the produce it.
And when the province of of Alberta asks for help, not in the form of cash or handouts or political privilege like Quebec or every other pathetic province in the failing confederation, but in the form of “hey could you maybe stop killing our industry that make it impossible for us to sell our product to a world that demands more of it”,
all we are met with is indifference.
Alberta has played by your progressive game.
We elected an NDP government that pushed its idiotic left wing agenda. We were the first province to introduce the carbon tax you all love so much.
We have cut C02 emmisions to satisfy your global warming agenda.
The result has been nothing but continued vilification from almost every national leader, and indifference and vitriol from the rest of Canada.
Canada is a failed nation.
Alberta will rise and become strong once again regardless of whether we are in Canada or not.
And whether the nation of Canada is successful or hurt as a result of what Alberta does, really, now, most of Albertan’s really don’t frankly care.

*****************************************
Incredibly well said my friend!

#286 oh bouy on 10.24.19 at 11:35 am

@#272 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 10:42 am
#202 Kilt on 10.23.19 at 10:27 pm

Sheer is the one who betrayed the West. He did nothing to win over the rest of Canada.
___

Scheer got more votes than Trudeau did.

_____________________________________

It is particularly sad that a united right still can’t beat a fragmented left. Time for the conservative party to be a bit more inclusive then maybe they’ll get somewhere.

#287 not 1st on 10.24.19 at 11:39 am

I would be interested in Garths solution, assuming he is an agreement there is a problem which is pretty evident. I wonder how Bay Street would react if the Libs put in legislation banning stock trading.

#288 Barb on 10.24.19 at 11:43 am

Perhaps T2 will simply GIVE the pipeline to indigenous peoples.

Numerous problems solved in one fell swoop.

#289 oh bouy on 10.24.19 at 11:46 am

@#251 Dharma Bum on 10.24.19 at 7:52 am
This entire situation is soooooooo American.

Us and Them.

East and West.

English and French.

Union and Confederate.

All screaming for civil war.

Canadians like to hold themselves in such high regard and believe that they are morally and intellectually superior to Americans.

Reading the rhetoric in today’s comments section just proves we are the same vicious animal. Jealousy, hatred, tribalism, divisiveness and polarization rule us.
_______________________________________

Nah, just a bunch of anonymous keyboard warriors trolling each other. Definitely not the sentiment of true Canadians.

comments sections/social media are for entertainment purposes only and should be taken with a grain of salt.

#290 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 11:46 am

#256 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.24.19 at 8:56 am

I would like to expand out on a bit of a tangent from this thought if I may.

The thin veneer of civilization, the good life we have at the moment, is largely due to cheap energy and other products derived from fossil fuels. This dream of a clean, green utopia where we keep on living with the same freedoms and high standards we currently enjoy is just that. A dream.

Make no mistake. The Greenies want us to change our entire way of life. In essence we will be going back to an 1850’s type agrarian society, or worse. There will be death. There will be pain.

The world cannot run on fairy dust and unicorn farts like the Gretchen’s of the world believe. Their understanding of the “problem” is so shallow.
___

100%. Anyone that thinks green power can save the day with no lifestyle changes anytime soon, just needs to go to the science center in Toronto, and hop on that gen-bike to see how long they can keep that measly 60 watt light bulb on by pedaling.

The typical Ontario household use uses over 3/4 Million watts per month.

A typical small manufacturing plant like where I work uses over 50 Million watts every month.

A big Paper Mill can eat 56 Billion watts per month.

That’s over 233 Million 60 watt bike riders peddling 8 hours per day, seven days per week. For one single Mill.

You’d need over 260 thousand of your typical 300 watt solar panels to run it – and that’s assuming the sun shone 24 hours/day, 365 days/year. Realistically you’d need over 1 million 300 watt panels to run a mill this size reliably in Canada. Plus the mother of all battery backs and inverter.

Have a look at this chart – population growth compared to oil consumption:

https://static.businessinsider.com/image/4f0c2c2decad04f16d000002/image.jpg?_ga=2.18669375.725356712.1571929306-1266616542.1571929306

Sure we can make renewable energy work – but we’ll have to chop the global population down about 75-80% first…

#291 Yukon Elvis on 10.24.19 at 11:47 am

#234 Brad Malo on 10.24.19 at 12:50 am
#153 Land Locked on 10.23.19 at 7:41 pm
“Alberta will never pull out. ”

That’s where you’re wrong my friend, Alberta will pull out just like Trudeau Sr. should have done.
………………….

Hahaha. You are naughty.

#292 AGuyInVancouver on 10.24.19 at 11:48 am

#189 Nonplused on 10.23.19 at 9:31 pm
#185 PeterfromCalgary

Trudeau don’t care about laws. That is how he do. But we will get access to the tide water once we are an independent or US state. Most of the oil and gas goes down there as it is. They love the money they make on refining the products. They love the land-locked discount. And I suspect, when I have my tin foil hat on, that this is what this is all about. All Alberta oil must go south, but right now the US is up to their eyeballs in shale oil so it is to be pushed out some years. But no new markets are to be allowed, when the oil flows again it will go south. Too bad for the people of BC that might have had jobs building and maintaining Trans-Mountain 2. No jobs for you. A pipeline that doesn’t get built doesn’t need many employees and doesn’t contribute much to the economy.

The US and Britain, and many others, have realized since WWI that it is all about the oil. That’s how politics are done. The US fully understands the future value of the oil sands, but they don’t need it right now. That’s why they are happy to watch our confederacy fall apart.
_ _ _
You do realize the America’s western coastal states have said emphatically they don’t want any more oil moving through their ports, right?

#293 Yukon Elvis on 10.24.19 at 11:50 am

#257 Incubus on 10.24.19 at 9:00 am
I am from Québec, if you could read what they said about oil, you would have nausea.

They have no clue about economics, they think money appears by magic or just milk the rich.
…………………..

Money does appear by magic. Called transfer payments.

Equalization payments ensure all Canadians have equal services. Are you against that? – Garth

#294 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 11:57 am

#286 oh bouy on 10.24.19 at 11:35 am
@#272 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 10:42 am
#202 Kilt on 10.23.19 at 10:27 pm

Sheer is the one who betrayed the West. He did nothing to win over the rest of Canada.
___

Scheer got more votes than Trudeau did.

_____________________________________

It is particularly sad that a united right still can’t beat a fragmented left. Time for the conservative party to be a bit more inclusive then maybe they’ll get somewhere.
___

Conservatism is probably done in Canada.

Financial sense among Canadian voters is 100% already dead.

Sad?

I’ll let you know what knobby tired freebies are sitting in my garage 4 years from now, and I’ll figure out how sad I am at that point.

Probably not very.

#295 Don Guillermo on 10.24.19 at 12:07 pm

#257 Incubus on 10.24.19 at 9:00 am
I am from Québec, if you could read what they said about oil, you would have nausea.
They have no clue about economics, they think money appears by magic or just milk the rich.
…………………..
Money does appear by magic. Called transfer payments.
Equalization payments ensure all Canadians have equal services. Are you against that? – Garth

******************************************

Totally against it when jurisdictions like Quebec keep their electricity prices artificially low to qualify for more equalization payments. Thanks for your support Incubus!!

#296 Remembrancer on 10.24.19 at 12:22 pm

#257 Incubus on 10.24.19 at 9:00 am
I am from Québec, if you could read what they said about oil, you would have nausea.
————————————————-
You don’t say? Got any actual citations you can post where we can read about that ourselves from government communiques, the media, public policy papers, other blogs etc?

#297 Steven Rowlandson on 10.24.19 at 12:23 pm

It seems to me that if less money was shoved at real estate and more at industry and infrastructure much of what is irritating the hell out of people would go away.
Except for some of the social policies of course.

#298 not 1st on 10.24.19 at 12:26 pm

Equalization payments ensure all Canadians have equal services. Are you against that? – Garth
—-

Lets examine that. AB doesn’t have govt daycare. Quebec has a balanced budget. So Ab should keep transferring monies for services they cant get in their own province nor have extra monies to deal with their own fiscal problems or to protect 200,000 job losses and the social problems that came with that like divorce, suicide, drugs, abuse.

Canada has basically outsourced socialism on the backs of the west. Everybody in Toronto thinks the economy is doing great and debt isn’t a problem because AB is servicing it. Quebec and the maritimes have their services while one province goes extinct? Seriously WTF?

Cmon Garth you are smarter than that.

#299 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 12:27 pm

#283 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.24.19 at 11:20 am

2019 Ford F-150 28 Great Deals $5,225
____

I’ll take all of them!

#300 Liza Johnson on 10.24.19 at 12:30 pm

Alberta unlike Ontario got the message in just 4 years booting out the NDP. Ontario let the Liberals pick their pockets for 15 years. This is why people in Ontario are so ignorant and misinformed.

This is why before for almost 30 years Ontario voted conservative but now Ontario’s quality and intelligence of their residents on understanding basic economics and pocketbook issues is poor. They need long term financial pain to finally get it. This is really why Trudeau and Liberals have it so easy in Ontario now.

#301 Yukon Elvis on 10.24.19 at 12:33 pm

#257 Incubus on 10.24.19 at 9:00 am
I am from Québec, if you could read what they said about oil, you would have nausea.

They have no clue about economics, they think money appears by magic or just milk the rich.
…………………..

Money does appear by magic. Called transfer payments.

Equalization payments ensure all Canadians have equal services. Are you against that? – Garth
……………………………

Would be nice for Alberta to have subsidized day care like Quebec :
According to Quebec’s Finance Department, families with a net income of $50,545 or less will have no additional contribution to pay. Above that amount, daycare fees start to rise. At an income of $75,000, the daily daycare fee will be $8.25, rising gradually to reach $20.70 per day for families with an annual income of $159,000.
https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/tax-season-quebec-families-say-daycare-hike-will-take-bite-out-of-their-budget

Hey, maybe all you whiny cowboys could move to Montreal and be looked after by cute French nannies. Subsidized, too, – Garth

#302 Shane Finshelle on 10.24.19 at 12:50 pm

Calling them whiny cowboys is going to help, how? Just admit it, the Laurentian elites coming all from Quebec have made Canada a high debt and high tax basket case as they have been in power for 66% of the time throughout Canada’s history.

Trudeau and Morneau’s comments is all show and no real positive, constructive policy making for Canada to be improved and sustainable to utilize all our resources and talents, skills to the fullest.

Sorry. That should have been “humourless” whiny cowboys. – Garth

#303 Ponzius Pilatus on 10.24.19 at 12:50 pm

When will the Quebec bashing end?

#304 Remembrancer on 10.24.19 at 12:53 pm

#301 Yukon Elvis on 10.24.19 at 12:33 pm
Would be nice for Alberta to have subsidized day care like Quebec :
—————————————-
Careful, do you want to almost double your marginal provincial tax rate too? How about a 10% provincial sales tax?

#305 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 12:53 pm

#278 Don Mila on 10.24.19 at 11:02 am

… I believe a luxury tax on boats were tried in the U.S. and it was a real failure and was cancelled because of all the job losses and lost total tax revenue.
____

“What went wrong with the luxury tax was that, in trying to go after the rich guys’ toys, Congress put the toymakers out of business. ”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1993/07/16/how-to-sink-an-industry-and-not-soak-the-rich/08ea5310-4a4b-4674-ab88-fad8c42cf55b/

#306 Yukon Elvis on 10.24.19 at 12:57 pm

#301 Yukon Elvis on 10.24.19 at 12:33 pm
#257 Incubus on 10.24.19 at 9:00 am
I am from Québec, if you could read what they said about oil, you would have nausea.

They have no clue about economics, they think money appears by magic or just milk the rich.
…………………..

Money does appear by magic. Called transfer payments.

Equalization payments ensure all Canadians have equal services. Are you against that? – Garth
……………………………

Would be nice for Alberta to have subsidized day care like Quebec :
According to Quebec’s Finance Department, families with a net income of $50,545 or less will have no additional contribution to pay. Above that amount, daycare fees start to rise. At an income of $75,000, the daily daycare fee will be $8.25, rising gradually to reach $20.70 per day for families with an annual income of $159,000.
https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/tax-season-quebec-families-say-daycare-hike-will-take-bite-out-of-their-budget

Hey, maybe all you whiny cowboys could move to Montreal and be looked after by cute French nannies. Subsidized, too, – Garth
………………………
Yah, or we could keep our transfer money and do it ourselves. Have you seen the hot cowgirls out here? You should get out more.

Once more time… there are no transfer payments made by Albertans to anyone else. You pay your taxes – at the same rate (less, actually) – as all other citizens. – Garth

#307 Doug Ford in Hiding on 10.24.19 at 1:00 pm

Hello? Anybody there? I’m knocking on my closet door, can anyone hear me….

Can I come out of the Witless Protection Program yet?

Please, somebody, say something………………………

#308 DantheMechanic on 10.24.19 at 1:15 pm

There is lots of misinformation here about the fundamentals of oil. First off, as another commenter alluded to, nuclear power is really the only viable alternative. It’s complicated but nuclear energy is the path forward for a low carbon world.

Current estimates are for global oil demand to continue to grow. The problem in Alberta is not the price of global oil (at which the province is quite competitive), but rather the lack of market access. The US has ~20% of global refining capacity and the USGC represents half of that. They want heavy oil; Mexico and Venezuela both have declining production and Venezuelan imports have been banned. Asia Pacific wants it as well and provides for some customer diversification. Gas should replace coal and oil is still required for various industries (aviation, shipping, petchems, etc).

Given the reduction in GHG emissions and cost savings measures over the last number of year, Alberta is quite competitive. There is a natural discount for quality and pipeline transportation, but when no market access is possible, that’s when those discounts become so large that the country literally loses millions of dollars in tax revenue per day.

Canada should be part of the global transition to lower carbon intensity, and is one of the only developed nations with stringent environmental standards. We should be at the forefront of the global fight against climate change (innovation, export, transition) – not being punished for having the resource. Think about this – in Texas they flare as much natural gas as the state consumes. In north Dakota, the flaring lights up the night sky to look similar to large metropolitan areas. In Canada, producers are prohibited from that type of flaring. Simply put, our environmental standards are significantly stronger than most other energy producing nations.

#309 Yukon Elvis on 10.24.19 at 1:15 pm

Once more time… there are no transfer payments made by Albertans to anyone else. You pay your taxes – at the same rate (less, actually) – as all other citizens. – Garth
…………..

Of course we know that. And what we get back from our paid taxes is less than what we paid and Quebec get benefits that we don’t have. That’s the beef.

#310 oh bouy on 10.24.19 at 1:18 pm

@#294 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 11:57 am
#286 oh bouy on 10.24.19 at 11:35 am
@#272 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 10:42 am
#202 Kilt on 10.23.19 at 10:27 pm

Sheer is the one who betrayed the West. He did nothing to win over the rest of Canada.
___

Scheer got more votes than Trudeau did.

_____________________________________

It is particularly sad that a united right still can’t beat a fragmented left. Time for the conservative party to be a bit more inclusive then maybe they’ll get somewhere.
___

Conservatism is probably done in Canada.

Financial sense among Canadian voters is 100% already dead.

Sad?

I’ll let you know what knobby tired freebies are sitting in my garage 4 years from now, and I’ll figure out how sad I am at that point.

Probably not very.
_______________________________

Not sure it ever existed.
conservative party rarely lives up to it’s mantra of fiscal responsibility.

I’m sure you enjoy your freebies as much as I enjoy mine

#311 Jack Manning on 10.24.19 at 1:19 pm

Trudeau, Morneau could be really genuine and trying to make positive policy changes but the NDP is a real barrier.

If the Liberals are truly telling the truth but alot of Canadians still have great skepticism about this, they could always have enough or more votes with the conservatives. I truly believe the Trudeau, Morneau Liberals need to pushed into this as they did not do it with their 4 year majority.

Good luck Liberals now trying to get anything really done for anyone if your full power mentality is still in their minds just like 2015 to 2019.

#312 Keyboard Smasher on 10.24.19 at 1:29 pm

It’s funny because Western Oil & Gas revenues pay for all of the climate change vanity projects.

I fully support Western secession, and I say this as an Ontarian.

#313 Don Guillermo on 10.24.19 at 1:48 pm

Hey, maybe all you whiny cowboys could move to Montreal and be looked after by cute French nannies. Subsidized, too, – Garth

*******************************************

I’ve lived in Calgary for many years. Don’t know any cowboys and hear most whining coming from the sky is falling left coast crowd who can’t tell me what colour their Tesla is.

Also I, along with many other Calgarians, spent over a year living and working in Quebec City helping expand the Levis Ultramar refinery capacity. We had a great time in that awesome city and made many good friends. We even ran our commissioning and start-up activities over radios in our badly accented western French. The locals loved us for it and treated us exceptionally well.

I still don’t believe they deserve preferential equalization payouts but you’re definitely right about the cute nannies. BTW stereotyping Albertans will always be a fail.

Another interesting side note: It was a Fluor Canada project, not SNC-Lavalin.

#314 PastThePeak on 10.24.19 at 1:51 pm

#290 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 11:46 am
#256 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.24.19 at 8:56 am

It is truly an indication that math is indeed a very rare human skill…

#315 Your buddy on 10.24.19 at 1:51 pm

#267 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 10:02 a.m..

…”If Wexit ever happened, that would be the end of any kind of fiscal Conservatism in what remained of Canada. The new Canada would consist of a bunch of older folks who half the time don’t work, half the time don’t pay taxes, never had kids, and want lots of free stuff. Economic Immigration would get destroyed due to high taxes low wages, and crap job market…

Aren’t you glad your wife has her government job? Isn’t yours linked to the government as well? Either way, you spout off here about taxes and debt and yet you have at least half or more than half your household income coming from a government salary and in the future you are looking forward to your wife’s DBP. You are the epitome of a hypocrite…

#316 In dubio on 10.24.19 at 1:52 pm

Sadly, too much rage and anger in some parts of Alberta these days that lead to irrational behaviour (aka “Wexit”, etc.).

Those “serious” people who agitate common folks by pushing their separatist ideas have a hidden agenda. To me, it looks like putting blame on innocent instead of guilty (over the past 40 years no lessons learned from the “boom-bust” cycle).

It would be better for us, Albertans, to calm down, review the facts as they are and make educated decisions. Unfortunately, most of the people are not able to think rationally. These days mainstream thinking here in Alberta is not based on facts and logic but on pure emotions.

The facts and numbers are simple and speak for themselves:

http://graphics.wsj.com/oil-barrel-breakdown/

https://www.altex-energy.com/economics-of-rail-versus-pipeline/#1501826553001-5b2a5174-03d3

– Alberta oil is not competitive due to high capital and production costs.
– Poor oil quality is also a factor (WCS is discounted for a reason).
– Transportation cost by rails is lower than by pipeline. (Maybe pipeline is not the only solution)…

Alberta energy sector is not dead but things won’t change for the better until both common folks and people in power keep emotions at bay, analyze the facts and make responsible decisions that benefit the province long-term.
To me, it’s just common sense:
– diversify the economy
– re-train oilpatch workers so they could transition to other industries
– build refineries to value-added products instead of raw oil
– support innovation and new technologies for the O&G to drive the costs down

….But everyone’s common sense is different, right?

Lastly, a few quotes from the ancient stoics (Seneca, On Anger). They are so old but so true…

“Anger is not only a vice, but a vice point-blank against nature, for it divides instead of joining;…”

“In the first place, Anger is unwarrantable as it is unjust: for it falls many times upon the wrong person, and discharges itself upon the innocent instead of the guilty:…
Secondly, It is unsociable to the highest point; for it spares neither friend nor foe; but tears all to pieces, and casts human nature into a perpetual state of war. It dissolves the bond of mutual society, insomuch that our very companions and relations dare not come near us; it renders us unfit for the ordinary offices of life: for we can neither govern our tongues, our hands, nor any part of our body.323 It tramples upon the laws of hospitality, and of nations, leaves every man to be his own carver, and all things, public and private, sacred and profane, suffer violence.
Thirdly, It is to no purpose…..”

“There are no greater slaves certainly, than those that serve anger; for they improve their misfortunes by an impatience more insupportable than the calamity that causes it.”

“He was much in the right, whoever it was, that first called anger a short madness; for they have both of them the same symptoms; and there is so wonderful a resemblance betwixt the transports of choler and those of frenzy, that it is a hard matter to know the one from the other. A bold, fierce, and threatening countenance, as pale as ashes, and, in the same moment, as red as blood; a glaring eye, a wrinkled brow, violent motions, the hands restless and perpetually in action, wringing and menacing, snapping of the joints, stamping with the feet, the hair starting, trembling of the lips, a forced and squeaking voice; the speech false and broken, deep and frequent sighs, and ghastly looks; the veins swell, the heart pants, the knees knock; with a hundred dismal accidents that are common to both distempers. Neither is anger a bare resemblance only of madness, but many times an irrevocable transition into the thing itself. How many persons have we known, read, and heard of, that have lost their wits in a passion, and never came to themselves again? It is therefore to be avoided, not only for moderation’s sake, but also for health.”

#317 Thedood on 10.24.19 at 1:52 pm

#295 Don Guillermo on 10.24.19 at 12:07 pm
#257 Incubus on 10.24.19 at 9:00 am
I am from Québec, if you could read what they said about oil, you would have nausea.
They have no clue about economics, they think money appears by magic or just milk the rich.
…………………..
Money does appear by magic. Called transfer payments.
Equalization payments ensure all Canadians have equal services. Are you against that? – Garth

******************************************

Totally against it when jurisdictions like Quebec keep their electricity prices artificially low to qualify for more equalization payments. Thanks for your support Incubus!!
_________________________________

What does all of this tell you? The BQ looks after the interests of it’s citizens maybe? I wish BC had a provincial government like the BQ. If Quebec didn’t have a 6 month winter, I would start learning French tomorrow and move. Lots of whining here about what Quebec has or is getting.

Apply the learnings. Stop voting for self-interest, dirtball governments. Take more interest in how politics actually work here in Canada. Seek out and talk with candidates who will work for you and not ‘tow the party line’. Get to know them, have them on speed dial, and hold them accountable! Let them know you’re watching and listening. At the end of the day, we are all paying for them to serve us – this seems to be the missing link in the conversation these days. Politicians have a boss – the public. Maybe we can’t change the system, but there are things that can be done to make the system work for you.

#318 Ron Banerjee on 10.24.19 at 2:07 pm

DELETED

#319 Gravy Train on 10.24.19 at 2:11 pm

#290 IHCTD9 on 10.24.19 at 11:46 am
“[…] The typical Ontario household uses over [750 kWh] per month.[…]” My solar panels have produced 6,827 kWh over the past 219 days, and are expected to produce 10,478 kWh for the year, so on average they produce 873 kWh per month. Do you see what I just did? I just shot down your entire argument. Oh, and you don’t seem to know the difference between watts and watt-hours. :)

#320 Don Guillermo on 10.24.19 at 2:18 pm

#317 Thedood on 10.24.19 at 1:52 pm

Apply the learnings. – THIS IS IN PROGRESS THX

Stop voting for self-interest, dirtball governments.- GOT THAT ONE DONE. FIVE LIBERALS LOST THEIR SEATS.

#321 JonBoy on 10.24.19 at 2:20 pm

#165 Don on 10.23.19 at 8:05 pm
#120 Kennie had a point; we will give it two years then after that the gloves are off. C’est la vie!

Why didn’t Jason Kenny and Steven Harper approve pipelines and get them built when they had majority governments? Seems they had a lot more than 2 years.

I want Trudeau to get rid of his anti pipeline bill and Alberta to get product to world markets, but what a hypocrite Kenny is now.

—–

Because we didn’t own the pipeline when Harper was in powe. It was owned by a corporation and they were proceeding at their own pace and there was no plan to hold it back or stop it.

It was only when they started hitting roadblocks that they pulled back, thanks to Trudeau, BC politicians and even Notley, to a degree (when she first came to office).

#322 WEXIT! on 10.24.19 at 2:22 pm

WEXIT is coming, Easterners!

Get ready for a Free Alberta!

#323 Adrian on 10.24.19 at 2:23 pm

The Wexit talk is just that: talk. Imagine the First Nations going along with separation? Not going to happen. The Conservative Party needs to take some responsibility for its loss, running such a weak candidate for PM.

#324 Keyboard Smasher on 10.24.19 at 2:23 pm

@Caleb Landry

“The world is moving off oil.”

There’s absolutely no evidence for that, in fact the evidence points to the contrary: growing global economies, especially in Asia and Africa and the Near East with an insatiable appetite for cheap energy, which only crude oil can provide, unless the world’s nations start a construction flurry of atomic reactors, which isn’t happening…

#325 Kerry Luoune on 10.24.19 at 2:37 pm

Gravy Train, you obviously did not here what certain states have already put a fee or tax on solar power per month per solar power production. It is just a matter of time that do this in Canada if it does not already exist.

A story I read about spent over $10,000 U.S. and put it on her mortgage and she was supposed to break even in about 8-10 years but now even after 25 years she will not break even and savings of her electricity bill calculated in the tens of thousands is now wiped out.

The more power solar power producing will create a solar power surplus that power companies do not want and will make it so difficult to make any money that with all tax credits, projected savings, it will actually cost tens of thousands in the long run.

It is the climate change, global warming scheme that is all about power and money grab and nanny state us all to death.

#326 Ustabe on 10.24.19 at 2:49 pm

Hey, guys!

When the shooting starts please don’t immediately shoot my sister who lives at 123 Alexander Crescent NW in a beige house with a red door and who drives a black Volkswagen full of cat hair and empty white wine boxes.

K? thnx, bye.

#327 Don Guillermo on 10.24.19 at 3:03 pm

#326 Ustabe on 10.24.19 at 2:49 pm
Hey, guys!
When the shooting starts please don’t immediately shoot my sister who lives at 123 Alexander Crescent NW in a beige house with a red door and who drives a black Volkswagen full of cat hair and empty white wine boxes.
K? thnx, bye.

********************************************

The longer the ROC thinks this is a humorous situation the better for us. Keep on laughing!

BTW your sister just called and joined our team!!

…. and Thx back at you.

#328 Phylis on 10.24.19 at 3:26 pm

Phew 328 comments and going, Garth take a day off, you’ve earned many.

#329 acdel on 10.24.19 at 7:25 pm

DELETED

#330 acdel on 10.24.19 at 7:36 pm

Hey, maybe all you whiny cowboys could move to Montreal and be looked after by cute French nannies. Subsidized, too, – Garth
————————————————————

Sure glad you posted that! Finally! Been waiting for it for years……… Now we know your true political/feelings towards a Province/Provinces that have a different ideology then you; I guess Harper saw through you and kicked your ass to the curb; you joined the Lib party and got your ass kicked.
Love your Blogs; you have helped many; but your politics suck; guess that is why you gave it up! Suck it up Garth; you have no idea the anger that resides outside of TO;Mont,Van; the snowflakes of the country.

I think you are done here. – Garth

#331 calgary rip off on 10.25.19 at 11:18 am

I live in Calgary.

I voted liberal. Why? The conservatives cannot deliver what they promise. There will be no pipeline. The costs to refine, build and negotiate treaties wont work. Other than oil and gas how is Alberta different than Siberian Russia? What exactly does prairie land offer?

The reality is that Albertans(most) are delusional. I agree that there should be pipelines. Wanting something and having it happen are different things. And this is why the conservatives are doomed. They arent thinking about alternatives. How exactly is everything to be funded?

Very simple: Provincial sales taxes.

Its unfortunate that Trudeau is seen as all bad. I dont support drug use however Marijuana legalization that he accomplished is a solid accomplishment.