Is cool enough?

Ten years ago nobody normal owned an electric car. Last year, the EV revolution hit Canada hard. Sales grew 125%. The number of electrics increased 90% over the previous year, essentially doubling. By the end of 2018 there were more than 93,000 of them whirring and clicking along.

So far this year, it’s continued. Now over 100,000 are on the road, with another eight thousand selling in the first quarter.

All impressive. But EVs account for less than 2% of all vehicle sales, and the number of units sold has just crashed in Ontario (down 55%). In contrast, sales are up 100% in BC and 56% in Quebec. The reason? People seem to love EVs when the government pays part of the price. Otherwise, not so much.

Says the industry association: “This decline is largely due to the abolition of the Ontario government’s purchase incentive program in July 2018 and proves the essential role that government must play to support the market as long as EV prices are not on par with those of gas-powered vehicles. It will be interesting to see if the new federal incentive, effective May 1, 2019, will restore sales in Ontario in the next quarter.”

In case you missed it, the T2 gang is not only giving people $24 billion a year to have children, but also will help you buy a ZEV – zero-emission vehicle – with a bag of free money. That program was announced in the budget, and became effective a few weeks ago.

Here’s the deal: (a) buy a battery-electric, fuel cell or long-range plug-in buggy and get $5,000. Or, (b) purchase a shorter-range plug-in and be handed $2,500. The grants are available right at the dealership and apply to vehicles with six seats or less and selling for under $45,000 (but there’s still money available up to a $55,000 tag), or a seven+-seater up to $60,000.

So what are people buying?

Lately battery-powered EVs are way more popular than plug-in hybrids – which is a complete reversal from one year ago. And Tesla’s Model 3 is edging out the Hyundai Kona and doubling sales of the Mitsubishi Outlander. The next big thing promises to be electric trucks, with Tesla and Ford soon competing in that new space.

  But, of course, Elon Musk is nuts. The genius kind of nuts. He invented PayPal, was the first guy to land rocket ships on their butt, has a gigantic earth-boring thingy, makes roofs that generate electricity and, as you know, started Tesla. The company made early investors a ton of money, but lately has been volatile – a drop of 10% in its stock yesterday. Plus it bonds are ‘junk’ grade, high-risk and high-yield (8%). Musk seems to be his own worst enemy, taunting US securities regulators, leading a highly unpredictable personal lifestyle, and suiciding regularly on social media. Despite that, Tesla has a cult following.

The Model 3 is selling in Canada these days for about $47,600 – minus those government incentives. The vehicle can go about 350 km before it runs out of juice, and has a top speed of over 200 km/hour (whatever good that is).

But, should you buy one? So far, 98% of new-car buyers say, nah. Not this time.

No wonder. An EV is of limited use in a country with vast distances between urban centres and where climate change seems to be making weather more extreme. Charging stations are a rarity – and virtually non-existent outside of the big centres. The battery drains faster than my libido at minus thirty in Toronto. And the company says charging up an empty Tesla can take from 5 to 24 hours, depending on how big an electric pipe you plug into.

Are EVs hip, though?

Definitely. Given the cost, limited range and inconvenience, this is a big reason for sales. Plus the free government money. And with the climate change bandwagon rolling hard these days, rest assured ZEVs will continue to be pushed by Ottawa. At least until the next election, when it’s possible what happened in Ontario will take place nationally. Mostly, the Tesla comes with ‘Dog Mode’, which keeps canines chilled if locked in a hot car, and alerts passersby with a digital message. How cool is that?

But if you succumb to the hype, remember to lease, not buy. With technology changing fast, an old Tesla (or any current EV) will end up looking like a Commodore 64, clunky, quaint and unloved. Lease it, use it to impress environmentally-conscious hot dates and bail in three years. Oh yeah, and give Musk a pass. Remember the message here yesterday about companies blowing up?

145 comments ↓

#1 TurnerNation on 07.25.19 at 4:06 pm

We’re Open for Business folks. Haha. OOPS wrong country.

2019-07-24 10:11 ET – News Release
MAGNA CELEBRATES THE SIGNING OF ITS FIRST COMPLETE VEHICLE MANUFACTURING JOINT VENTURE IN CHINA

Magna International Inc., BAIC Group and the Zhenjiang government celebrated the signing of a framework agreement governing their electric-vehicle manufacturing joint venture in Zhenjiang, China, which marks another milestone of their continued co-operation.

#2 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 4:14 pm

Ponder what?

#110 MF on 07.25.19 at 3:12 pm said to
105 IHCTD9 on 07.25.19 at 2:48 pm

100 years ago life on planet earth for the majority was worse than it is now. Ponder that.

********************************
Not sure I get your meaning. Ponder it? What’s to ponder? Life on planet earth is so much better for the majority than 100 years ago that it boggles the mind. I mean in 1919 we were just past the Spanish Flu that wiped out millions and WW I (then known as the Great War) wiped out millions. Autos were to horse and buggy as today Teslas are to gasoline autos. Rural Canada and rural USA were years away from being electrified or even having indoor plumbing in many cases. Most people did not have a telephone. The “wireless” was the radio and reserved for the wealthy. Infant mortality was very high. It goes on and on.

And we are still progressing in leaps and bounds. Betting against the future continuing to be better for generations to come is a bad bet.

#3 Keith on 07.25.19 at 4:19 pm

The allocation of capital says it’s coming sooner than most people will admit. Hundreds of billions in investment doesn’t lie.

https://mashable.com/2017/10/03/electric-car-development-plans-ford-gm/

#4 James on 07.25.19 at 4:25 pm

Even with the $5000 bribe that T2 and his cronies are providing I would not purchase an EV. Vote buying! They are digging deep now to keep their phony jobs going. Look at us we are helping the environment by giving you a $5000 coupon on a $55000 set of shiny new wheels. What other crumbs is Mr Socks about to throw out to the electorate. Free beer? Free pot? Free pizza to follow the free Pot?
Nope he lost me at “The budget will balance itself”

#5 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 4:34 pm

Electric Car adoption

True story. My Aunt and Uncle bought a “floor model” colour television around 1971. The kind that came in a big wooden cabinet. They then returned it in favor of a cheaper black and white model because there were so very few shows in color at the time. Within a couple of years basically all new programs were in color (or colour if you wish).

#6 Robert Fournier on 07.25.19 at 4:38 pm

Wait until you have to replace all of those lithium ion batteries. Major environmental hazards are coming with the use of these EV’s.

#7 MF on 07.25.19 at 4:49 pm

#2 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 4:14

Wasn’t necessarily directed at IN, but Generally people who are cynical about the future need to think (or ponder) how life has improved for the vast majority of us.

Basically what you said.

MF

#8 Wait There on 07.25.19 at 4:50 pm

Hey it is cool but here is the irony.
These EVs are best suited for people who live in city centres like condos. How many parking stalls in condos have the facility to charge and meter separately?

So even at home, a 120V plug in can charge I think 2.8 miles per hour. Looks like I will need some heavy wires for charging. How much will that cost?

Despite that it is a niche market. Cars are better built today than decades ago. The life cycle of auto/trucks is now a long time. Once you realize that different people have different needs and budgets, it means that fossil burner HAS to be around for a while yet.

When I retire, EVs could be nice but not affordable by the masses for a long time. Hybrids are however a welcome hybrid solution that can bridge the two.

#9 Mean Gene on 07.25.19 at 4:53 pm

Paying a premium for an EV or for the same amount of money (generally) buy a Honda Civic and have gas money for 10 years.

#10 SimplyPut7 on 07.25.19 at 4:53 pm

I’m debt free and own my car.

The list of cars shown don’t make me want to go into debt or use my own savings to buy a new car.

But if anyone is interested, here is the list of eligible vehicles from the federal government.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/road/innovative-technologies/list-eligible-vehicles-under-izev-program.html

#11 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 4:59 pm

Buy a Tesla. Make Road Trip to Cape Breton.

I beg Garth’s indulgence to allow me to remind the blogership that the dog and motorcycle friendly family owned Clansman Motel (and Restaurant) in North Sydney Cape Breton has an electric car charging station. It also has on Wednesday nights 5 beer and two pounds of wings all for $29.99. I shall not include a link because there are limits to Garth’s indulgence and I pledge no further mention this season. I have no ownership but my family are the owners.

#12 Wait There on 07.25.19 at 5:07 pm

When it comes to trying to provide leadership and care for the climate, we hear of Carbon taxes and I don’t agree with that. People may not realize the amount of energy homes consume, they see the bills but unless you are a mechanical engineer, you won’t be able to grasp the amount of real energy a home must consume. The light bulb etc. is kind of like peeing in the ocean….

First off, new construction should be mandated to have much much higher levels of energy efficiency. The government is on one hand throwing money around for EVs but they should be somehow shut down the construction of carbureted V8 homes they allow to be constructed and financed for 30 years. Who in their right mind would purchase a gas guzzler vehicle and finance it for 30 years. They should mandate that homes and all buildings be much more efficient. Only allow CMHC to insure energy efficient homes. The building industry needs to wake up and come out of the Detroit mode that they are in now. Putting up crap that will become expensive to operate down the road. Unfortunately the building industry is littered with trades who do not understand their role in the effort in environment. I would fully buy in to putting up homes that are built like EVs in concept and finance it for 40 years if need be. It makes a lot of sense.

By imposing carbon taxes on people who literally HAVE to purchase these gas guzzler homes is criminal when the government does not move to ensure the newer stock of homes is the most efficient possible. Slapping solar panels on old homes that are V8s is like putting energy efficient tires on an old carbureted V8, so the owner of the vehicle can reduce use of gas. Too funny but that is what carbon taxes is inducing us to do.

#13 TS on 07.25.19 at 5:14 pm

Always lots of EV haters here. I wonder if all these old curmudgeons hate iphones, flat screen TVs, and other benefits of living in the 21st century.
Guys, even if you hate mother earth, do yourself a favor and drive one. Just try it. The instant torque of EVs makes them feel like rocket ships. Rocket ships that cost $2 to fill up. Rocket ships that are basically a battery, frame, and wheels so forget about all the headaches and costs of regular maintenance. Yes, they depreciate like crazy so buy an off lease one from an incentive laden market like California. A leaf with less than 50k on the clock will cost you less than 10k. Even if your balls are freezing off, an EV will still go 50% of its range which these days is like 200km. Who drives more than 200km everyday? And if you’re road tripping, take 30 mins to breath some fresh air while you fill up for $2 for another 400km. By 2025 the major auto manufacturers have committed to having 300 models of these things….not because they are all Birkenstock wearing granola crunchers but because EVs are awesome. Just try one instead of staying home yelling at your TV.

#14 Brennan Aguanno on 07.25.19 at 5:16 pm

I bought an Nissan Leaf ev in 2015 and it’s been amazing to say the least. The fuel savings alone covered the car payments. There is essentially no maintenance to do. No oil, many fewer moving parts, etc. It is very peppy, smooth, and quiet. A way better driving experience than a gas powered car. Once you drive an ev, internal combustion vehicles feel strangely primitive and gross.

#15 Millennial Realist on 07.25.19 at 5:18 pm

#5 Shawn Allen

Electric Car adoption

True story. My Aunt and Uncle bought a “floor model” colour television around 1971. The kind that came in a big wooden cabinet. They then returned it in favor of a cheaper black and white model because there were so very few shows in color at the time. Within a couple of years basically all new programs were in color (or colour if you wish).
________________________________________

An excellent reminder of how fast change happens. And it will also be way faster now than in the 1970s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox5LtxqQNHw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duWFnukFJhQ

Moore’s Law. Demographic shift and the fade-away of Boomers. Political and economic change towards social justice.

The change over the next decade will take your breath away.

Climb aboard, or be run over by it.

#16 Janice P on 07.25.19 at 5:22 pm

Lots of international students from China and India are driving Teslas on campus, but that don’t impress me much. I prefer guys who own 2020 model Lamborghini and Ferraris.

How much are you willing to spend?

#17 Captain Uppa on 07.25.19 at 5:29 pm

Hey Gartho, what’s with the pro-leasing ‘tude. Most financial oracles push for car ownership (paying full cash being the most ideal; yeah right for most).

I am genuinely curious about why you feel leasing is better than buying a car?

#18 Moh on 07.25.19 at 5:34 pm

Nice post Garth. Thank you for the knowledge transfer.

Forever grateful!

Regards,
Moh

#19 Dolce Vita on 07.25.19 at 5:34 pm

Garth, give EVs another 5 yrs and it will be a brave new World.

Hope to change a few minds and yours Garth with 2 of my favorites below about EVs (don’t drive but have become an EV Junkie having watched far TOO many videos on the topic).

This guy is the epitome of warm, geek, honest and talented (he lives in Boston, MA, also owns an ICE vehicle):

Undecided with Matt Ferrell
“Electric Cars Myths vs Facts”, 17:50 min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk7ZTn9g7bY

Click on SHOW MORE and he provides timestamps for specific topics in the video.

———————————————-

For everybody’s lovable, adorable, off the wall and slightly weird Uncle watch this on EVs in the cold (the Leaf did not do so good, the Tesla pretty darn good):

“Frozen electric cars – a Leaf and a Tesla at -25C”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvv0PegLIZE

———————————————-

AND if you want to be a true EV junkie, watch “Fully Charged” where they review new EVs.

Stay away from videos with the guy wearing glasses, beard and that looks histrionic…I think he means well but can be a bit of wanker at times if you ask me…

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzz4CoEgSgWNs9ZAvRMhW2A

Most will be in shock at all the new EVs and their capabilities coming out now and in the new year. Their best videos are when a race car driver takes an EV out for a spin.
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Give it 5 years Garth…

#20 NoName on 07.25.19 at 5:38 pm

#96 GregW, Oakville on 07.25.19 at 1:06 pm

just watch his camera/lenses stuff videos skip that magnet stuf, and feude with that other yooutube channel is funny, verry funny.

That fast magnet he is missing am obvious, in fast magnet approach buy hitting a box he is breaking a friction and adding movmnet to pins that would othervise be stayed in place because of friction, if they are not disturbed.

You want to study hi frequency motors, study windmills. 1000-ish hz

Faster ever that i pushed motor on a vf drive was exhaust fan at 90hz, but daily i do see motors spinning at 80hz.

anyways if you are in photography his video, if you are in to magnetisam tahe a speaker apart and go magnet fishing much more interesting.

#21 Doug Simcoe on 07.25.19 at 5:40 pm

Electric cars are garbage just like gas or diesel cars. Cars are just a big money sucker and why would anyone waste $50,000 on something that is basically worth 50% less in a short period of time.

It is transportation and that is it. All the electronics in it are just another money grab and money pot for dealers. People have not grown up and attach to toys are their lives.

#22 Eaglebay on 07.25.19 at 5:41 pm

“where climate change seems to be making weather more extreme”

Climate change is average weather over 1000s and 1000s of years. The weather isn’t any more extreme than in the past 100 years.

#23 Damifino on 07.25.19 at 5:42 pm

#13 TS

Always lots of EV haters here.
——————————–

I don’t hate ’em.

It’s just that I couldn’t sleep at night knowing the nasty ecological damage I was supporting in third world countries where rare earth metals are mined.

Creating a toxic mess in someplace North America cares little about does not justify an addiction to breakneck acceleration.

I’d prefer we keep our pollution here at home where we can keep an eye in it.

#24 NoName on 07.25.19 at 5:49 pm

But if you succumb to the hype, remember to lease, not buy. With technology changing fast, an old Tesla (or any current EV) will end up looking like a Commodore 64, clunky, quaint and unloved. Lease it, use it to impress environmentally-conscious hot dates and bail in three years. Oh yeah, and give Musk a pass. Remember the message here yesterday about companies blowing up? -GT


i actualy like musk, but he took a many wrong turns with tesla, he should never ever venture beyond high price, high margin low volume market. at least not until he stabilized process…

One god thing about old (now canceled) ont. electric wehicle plan was if you chose a 3y or longer lease you would also get a grant…

#25 Eaglebay on 07.25.19 at 5:52 pm

#14 Brennan Aguanno on 07.25.19 at 5:16 pm

You’re due for new batteries. Enjoy.

#26 Smartalox on 07.25.19 at 5:53 pm

Fun Fact: Elon Musk attended Queen’s University in Kingston, Canada!

When asked what career he wanted to pursue after graduation, he said that he wanted to be ‘an Industrialist’

#27 Tater on 07.25.19 at 5:53 pm

Elon Musk is nuts. The genius kind of nuts. He invented PayPal, was the first guy to land rocket ships on their butt, has a gigantic earth-boring thingy, makes roofs that generate electricity and, as you know, started Tesla
—————————-

Other than the first sentence nothing else here is true.

Musk didn’t invent PayPal, they bought a company of his and did nothing with it and his horrible management got him pushed out in a year.

The DC-X was a vertical landing rocket in the 90s.

The boring machine wasn’t invented by him, he bought it used and has thus far accomplished nothing with it.

The solar roof tiles don’t exist. The “prototype” Musk showed on stage was a non-working mock up. It’s highly unlikely that product will ever see large scale commercial production.

Musk joined Tesla after Eberhard started it and pushed him out.

#28 Yukon Elvis on 07.25.19 at 5:53 pm

When we all drive electric vehicles and we all plug them in to recharge will we have brown outs? Will the electric grid supply enough energy to charge our cars and heat/cool/illuminate our homes at the same time? Will people protest new hydro electric dams like they do pipelines ? Hmmmm…..

#29 Darren on 07.25.19 at 5:55 pm

Charging stations are sprouting up fairly quickly….It even looks like one could travel the north side of Lake Superior now.
https://www.plugshare.com

#30 Josh in Calgary on 07.25.19 at 6:01 pm

A few things to remember about EV:

They don’t have nearly the maintenance or fuel costs, so even if the up front cost is more it’s closer than you think.

If you live in a place that still powers the grid with Coal (AB and Sask) then you are not doing the environment any favours at all. Probably worse actually.

Some of the EVs are actually really nice cars. If you want to buy it for that reason then go ahead.

I personally won’t buy the first year or two of a new model car with a regular engine. That’s when they work out the major bugs. With EVs I’m waiting even longer. At least 5 years. Then I like to buy used cars that are a few years old. By then they should have some real data out there on how long the batteries last and what it will cost to replace them.

#31 Dolce Vita on 07.25.19 at 6:02 pm

PS:

Forgot to mention that everybody’s lovable, adorable, off the wall and slightly weird Uncle is from…drum roll…the tropical haven of:

ALBERTA

There, EV STREET CRED for Canadians.

PS, PS:

Tesla map of charging stations N. America:

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/supercharger?redirect=no

Others, incl. Tesla:

https://www.plugshare.com/

A lot more charging stations than most imagine.

———————————————-

AND so as not to start punching myself in the head having to read the tech. challenged compare an EV battery to that of their cell phone (vastly different technologies) Google Search:

“different types of EV battery packs”

and click on Images.

Ask yourself if you’ve got one of those in your cell phone or if the chemistry is even remotely the same.

———————————————-

Yes Garth, Buonanotte e Ciao d’Italia.

PS, PS, PS:

Love the new VW Microbus and Honda EVs.

For those ‘shroom runs to the BC Interior, it arises from the ashes (a car expert and enthusiast with the Designer):

VW ID Buzz | Fully Charged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQut6ks3nSY

And too cute for its own good (with histrionic but means well guy):

Honda e First Drive | Fully Charged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEKq8jmckz0
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Now I’m Done. Over and out My Liege.

#32 Too Short on 07.25.19 at 6:13 pm

Paid cash for car in 2005. It still has a good 10 years left.

If you do a cost benefit analysis of EVs you will find that the price point for ownership is not there yet – even with the lame grants. They need to increase the grants like in Cali.

It is still currently cheaper to own a gas powered car even with gas prices at $2 per liter and maintenance costs. However, most Canadians can’t do math so having to fill up at the pump with increasing gas prices somehow justifies high EV prices. But just like the people who bought houses out in Langley and commute into Vancouver, they soon find out that there is no savings

Also, EVs nuke you with high level EMF from the battery cells that you basically sit on. The staff in the Tesla store in Vancouver could not even answer my questions about this. So, I measured it myself.

You can have the most expensive flagship cell phone on the market but if the battery craps out in 2 years, you will be getting a new phone.

Check out the cost of replacement batteries on these cars that last about 8 years. It is like having to buy a new engine for your gas vehicle. Would definitely lease.

#33 NoName on 07.25.19 at 6:16 pm

#13 TS on 07.25.19 at 5:14 pm
Always lots of EV haters here. I wonder if all these old curmudgeons hate iphones, flat screen TVs, and other benefits of living in the 21st century.
Guys, even if you hate mother earth, do yourself a favor and drive one. Just try it. The instant torque of EVs makes them feel like rocket ships. Rocket ships that cost $2 to fill up. Rocket ships that are basically a battery, frame, and wheels so forget about all the headaches and costs of regular maintenance. Yes, they depreciate like crazy so buy an off lease one from an incentive laden market like California. A leaf with less than 50k on the clock will cost you less than 10k. Even if your balls are freezing off, an EV will still go 50% of its range which these days is like 200km. Who drives more than 200km everyday? And if you’re road tripping, take 30 mins to breath some fresh air while you fill up for $2 for another 400km. By 2025 the major auto manufacturers have committed to having 300 models of these things….not because they are all Birkenstock wearing granola crunchers but because EVs are awesome. Just try one instead of staying home yelling at your TV.

reality vs preception of reality

level 2 (240V-40-80A) charging staion for home is anywhere between 2500-3500 instolled, and charge time depends on a battery size, i can just imagine what would happend last week if electric cars penetrated more than 2%.

Many new construction housed have at the best 240,125A service, now imagine running stove coking a dinner runnig ac and charging 2 cars…

Luckily for us liberals and oakvilons gave us step by step instruction book to fight “micro grids”.

Sode note,
That round transformer on a pole is only fused on primary side, and when thing go wrong with those transformers it always spectacular.

charge times
https://pluginbc.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/EVs-on-board-systems-and-EVSE-Update-Jan-2016.pdf

tought out thru comercial to see when transformer go kaboom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpVyF6l2q9w

and bonus read

A vandal who is selling the toxic oil, drawn from the transformer, to chefs who use it for frying food in roadside stalls. Five litres of the viscous, PCB-laden liquid sells for $60. It looks like cooking oil, but lasts much longer, users say.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/12/thieves-fry-kenya-power-grid-fast-food-2014122884728785480.html

#34 TS on 07.25.19 at 6:19 pm

#23 It’s just that I couldn’t sleep at night knowing the nasty ecological damage I was supporting in third world countries where rare earth metals are mined.

——————-

Right…as you type this on your typewriter after you parked your horse and buggy. Guess what the largest end user of rare earth metals is…magnets. Guess what the second largest is…cerium oxide in catalytic converters in every ICE vehicle. Guess what the 3rd is…FCCs for petroleum refining.

Weird day. The eco granola weirdos are usually pro EV and know how to use google.

#35 As I was ... on 07.25.19 at 6:26 pm

taking transit the other day into the big smoke, passing a loooong line of creeping cars waiting to get through the George Massey tunnel, I started thinking the best reason for an EV is that they are allowed in the HOV lane. That would be my reason for buying one if I was still commuting to a job. But as I am not, will carry on with my small Toyota 4 cylinder which sips gas. Seems they have been perfected.

#36 Vision on 07.25.19 at 6:30 pm

We looked at Electric vehicles last year when rebates were 14,000/ 7,500. No oil changes, $1 per day costs for electricity , little maintenance. Quite appealing. But if you look at charge stations, not very many around . If you go on a long trip, even fast charging would be half an hour minimum. I can imagine the line ups! Plus, as you pointed out, the capacity drops 50% in winter. Can you imagine the power outages we will have when everyone has an electric vehicle and are charging at home? The infrastructure does not support it. Last year, the max range was 400 km for the Bolt and Tesla. The rest only have 200 km ranges. Good for Europe, not so good for Canada with our long distances.
Guess where electricity comes from. Not Niagara Falls. Burning oil, coal and gas and nuclear power.
I can imagine the lineups at charging stations in the future. 3 cars ahead of you and you will have to wait 2 hours on a long trip! You can watch the gas powered cars fill up and drive go ahead.
Electric cars are not ready yet. Plus, they are expensive.
Good idea to lease rather than to buy, Garth.

#37 tbone on 07.25.19 at 6:31 pm

I have an Audi with a supercharged V6 engine .
It gets 7.3 L / 100 km on the highway
and goes 0 to 60 mph in 4.6 seconds .
Pretty efficient for a 4400 lb car

Don’t think I`ll be getting an electric anytime soon .
I`ll buy an electric when there is no more gas .

#38 Alberta Ed on 07.25.19 at 6:33 pm

EVs are not environmentally friendly. Manufacture of the batteries (which must be replaced periodically) emits significant quantities of carbon dioxide — as much as a gasoline-powered vehicles does over several hundred thousand km., according to some reports. Then there’s the recycling problem –batteries contain a lot of lithium, and mining lithium in third world countries has a big downside. Then there’s the environmental impact of generating the electricity to charge those EVs. Although I have to say a two second 0-100 mph Lambo does have a certain appeal, if Socko’s willing to pay for it.

#39 TS on 07.25.19 at 6:36 pm

#33 No Name

reality vs preception of reality

———–

Thanks for the links from 2016…doesn’t even mention level 3 never mind 3+. Why spend 2500 when you can just go to one of 1000s of 200kW per hour charging stations that will inevitably exist as EVs scale. You can trickle charge while you’re sleeping at home when the utilities are charging negative rates and get paid to fill up.

Again, just try one. All the arguments against EVs seem to make sense until you own one. And then you wonder what took you so long. You won’t understand until you try it.

#40 Axehead on 07.25.19 at 6:39 pm

The fuel source (electricity) is fossil fuel based or nuclear. All the plastic components are made from fossil fuels. The metal is mined and processed with fossil fuel based equipment. All the paint and dyes come from fossil fuels. The vehicle rides on roads of fossil fuels mixed with rocks. Much of the battery components are made of rare earth metals (think China) that pollute when mined. And when they are done, there is a vast amount of dangerous, highly toxic waste. How is this environmentally friendly, or even, environmentally friendlier?

#41 Felix on 07.25.19 at 6:51 pm

Good timing for this topic and photo by our dear host, and a necessary reminder for all those low IQ dog owners out there.

So – If you want to cook your dog, there are many excellent restaurants in Asia that will serve up a memorable canine meal. There are also some great recipes now online. All of these are free of pain and suffering by these vapid creatures.

But leaving your stupid mutt in the car on a hot summer day is just cruel and clumsy. (Plus it will make the flesh tougher and less palatable later)

(Consider also using a BBQ hooked up to an EV to reduce your carbon footprint while cooking a dog)

This public service message brought to you by the superior feline species and its higher IQ human associates.

#42 The Electric Car on 07.25.19 at 6:51 pm

The electric vehicle is like the F-35 that doesn’t work. Can you imagine on a road trip pulling up to a charging station that is broken. In the winter your running out of juice, and must slow down, and turn the heater off in order to make it to the next charging station. Who will insure these cars, and what does it cost?

#43 S.Bby on 07.25.19 at 7:00 pm

#27 Tater on 07.25.19 at 5:53 pm

Thank you.
I was going to post basically the same thing.

We need to stop idolizing Musk as some kind of inventor/genius because he isn’t.

#44 NoName on 07.25.19 at 7:03 pm

Spacely sprocket Nisan leaf

https://youtu.be/3yO5msMEGZI

Vs

https://youtu.be/-mcVKjyOQ_4

(If you ever wondered what our contributor from Italy mr. gelato ragaco is driving)

#45 S.Bby on 07.25.19 at 7:06 pm

Battery EVs are a non starter (excuse the pun) without the massive government subsidies available and the infrastructure to support any volume of them is just not there. Plus it takes too long to recharge them so they are too inconvenient for the average driver.

Tesla has never made a profit and their financial burn rate is as high as ever.

At this point EVs are just feel-good social engineering toys.

#46 will on 07.25.19 at 7:15 pm

My niece has one of those. She’s very hip. Picked me up at YYJ last year and took me to a pub downtown where we drove around the parking lot looking for a plug-in for the car. Found one (a courtesy for customers), and then went in for pints. I was totally impressed. Of course you are right they are no good for any long distance but for her traveling back and forth from Sooke it works.

#47 Sail away on 07.25.19 at 7:33 pm

Elon Musk is an absolutely amazing person. SpaceX is the only private space enterprise to ever succeed. And it’s succeeded wildly. He’s kept it private to avoid having dingbat short-term thinkers cause stress as they are doing with Tesla, but I’d love to invest in SpaceX.

All his other ventures are proceeding and succeeding- Boring Company, solar roofs, OpenAI, Neuralink, low earth orbit internet satellite network. I’ve seen some commenters claim these aren’t succeeding, which is incorrect: the ventures are fully functional. The Boring Company just finished 2019 hyperloop competition with Germany’s TU Munich team winning with a speed of over 400kph; Microsoft just announced a partnership with OpenAI; solar roofs are in full production, low earth orbit satellites are being placed as predicted.

He’s an incredible person. A normal person criticizing Elon is like a potato criticizing a computer.

#48 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 7:41 pm

Tunnels are Boring?

Tater at 27 said:

The boring machine wasn’t invented by him [Elon Musk], he bought it used and has thus far accomplished nothing with it.

**************************************
Which reminds me that Bombardier was involved in the construction of the Chunnel under the English Channel. It seems to me they were involved building the “Tunnel Boring Machine”.

Big cost over-runs. Losses. Law suits. They say history cannot predict the future but loser companies have a way of keeping on losing. Winners do the opposite. Though it must be said that in the year 2000 Bombardier looked like a winner and its stock price needle peaked around $28. Back then they had basically a bank division and were lending money to their customers and even financing mobile homes. Those were the days.

#49 Flop... on 07.25.19 at 7:51 pm

#98 Penny Henny on 07.25.19 at 1:29 pm
Either Flop is on his annual summer road trip or he is joined GFA to deal with his addiction issues.
Greater Fools Anonymous.

//////////////////////

Against my better judgement I will write this post.

Do you remember a while back when that person encouraged criminals to pay my wife a visit and went on to list things I had divulged about myself on the blog?

You decided it was a good idea to add a vehicle description.

Remember doing that?

Well someone on here a few weeks ago asked my to do my version of a housing report and the next morning when I went out to go to work someone had vandalized my vehicle.

At first I thought who would do this?

Only thing I could think of is that there are some people on this blog that hate my guts because I am a construction worker with a conscience and tried to tell the truth about Vancouver real estate.

I was warned to quietly live amongst the masses, I wrapped up my blog and The Pink Snow Project and went back yo trying to make people laugh and passing on any decent Howmuch articles, and tried to show some value in real estate instead of trying to bash it as I learnt from my short time as a blog host people want a roof over their heads and also want an unbiased second opinion on one of the most important decisions of many of our lives.

I wrote Garth and told him I was going to take a break from posting, but as the correction continues anything I post, could, and will, be held against me and my wife, so I am focusing my energy elsewhere.

Have a laugh at my expense, I really don’t care.

I tried to help out but I’m not qualified to assist anyone with mental illness.

I’ll find another way to help some people out.

I’m just a blue collar bum with a potato for a brain and an energizer battery for a heart.

It just keeps going…

M45BC

#50 FreeBird on 07.25.19 at 7:52 pm

Efficiency of hydrogen fuel cell vs electric batteries. Includes user friendly graphics and great accent…

https://youtu.be/f7MzFfuNOtY

#51 Blessed Canadian Millenial on 07.25.19 at 8:04 pm

I’m a big-time car guy. I love driving and the roar of a V8 is just intoxicating

But, I just bought a Prius Prime which is a plug-in Hybrid. Took full advantage of the $2,500 rebate from our government as well. Thanks, Justin!

If I could’ve afforded a full EV, I’d have gone that route. Plug-in Hybrid was the next best alternative and can’t wait to start saving some money.

#52 Do Your Research Please Garth on 07.25.19 at 8:07 pm

“Charging stations are a rarity – and virtually non-existent outside of the big centres”

Clearly you haven’t looked into this. A quick scan of ChargeHub or PlugShare shows an abundance of public charging stations across North America, many of them free.

Focusing on Tesla in particular, there are Super Chargers located up and down the 401 including in small towns like Port Hope, Cornwall and Woodstock.

Another key fact you omitted from your article? The cost of fuel is WAY cheaper for an EV.

EVs can be charged for around $1.5 per 100 km. Conventional ICE vehicles cost around $8 per 100 km (assuming a high fuel efficiency of 7.5L/100 km).

Lastly, surely you’ve heard of economies of scale. Yes, EVs don’t move without subsidies now but that won’t always be the case.

#53 Slim on 07.25.19 at 8:08 pm

You’ll be in for a long wait when there are three vehicles ahead of you to charge theirs. What a schmazel that would be!

#54 Nonplused on 07.25.19 at 8:20 pm

The thing about EV’s is that they are not zero emission, not by a long shot. In fact, depending on where you live and charge that sucker, they may be more polluting than a diesel car.

People tend to think electricity is clean because there is no exhaust where you use it. It “just comes from the wall”. Canada is blessed with abundant hydro power and Ontario produces about 16% of their power from nuclear, so if you live in BC, Quebec or Ontario an electric car may actually reduce emissions. But if you live in Alberta or Saskatchewan half the power comes from coal and most of the rest from natural gas, so plugging in is probably worse for the environment than filling up with gas or even diesel.

Plus where to they get the lithium for all those batteries? They mine it. Many chemicals are involved. The whole process makes the oil sands look rather benign. More like a large scale clean up rather than an environmental disaster. Lithium mining on the other hand is rather gross. But it is in other countries so we don’t care.

As electric cars become more and more common we will soon reach the limits of the current electric grid to charge them, they use a lot of power. A mind boggling amount of power. If you charge your electric car in the garage overnight it is easily the largest power draw in your house, perhaps more than the rest of the house combined depending on how much you drive. So if electric cars really take off, a lot of money is going to need to be spent to basically double the capacity of the power grid.

In addition to all the transmission wires, transformers, switches, etc. that will be required we are going to need a lot more generation. Since solar and wind are not up to the task, and nuclear takes forever to even get approval for let alone build, that generation will be natural gas and coal, at least in the next 20 years. How people think that is cleaner than gasoline boggles the mind.

All those power lines aren’t exactly risk free either, just ask PG&E, who is now bankrupt because one of their power lines started a huge forest fire that killed over 200 people and wiped a town completely off the map. When has an oil pipeline ever done that? I recall a runaway oil train did that in Quebec some years back but pipelines do not run away like trains can.

Also, I am not sure I want a Tesla parked in my garage unless the garage is detached from the house. They have a tendency to self-combust. The reason comes down to the physics of batteries versus gasoline. For a chemical reaction of the sort that occurs in batteries or a gasoline engine 2 components must be present to react. In the case of a gasoline engine it is pretty simple, you have your gas in the tank and oxygen in the air. But as long as the gas stays in the tank, it cannot combust because there is no air. The gas has to get out of the tank to combust and the tank is designed specifically to prevent that even in the case of a catastrophic accident. In the case of a battery, however, all of the chemicals required for the reaction are contained within the battery itself, so if the battery is damaged or overheated or shorted it can self combust. No oxygen is required to get the party started, although once on fire the oxygen just makes matters worse.

The electric car, like so many other shams we’ve been sold under the banner of being green, is just another questionable solution to a problem we didn’t have. And the free market, in it’s wisdom, knows this, which is why they don’t sell well without subsidies.

#55 the Jaguar on 07.25.19 at 8:25 pm

Jag will go out on a limb today, starting with # 41 Felix:
I love both species ( dogs and cats), but identity politics never work. Pulling yourself up by pulling others down is a short term, no win strategy. If you love cats, wonderful. I do too. But dogs are equally lovable and if not your choice of companion still deserve respect. Respectfully, stop being mean about dogs, Felix.

-About the electric transport option. No doubt there is a place for it in the greater scheme of things. I see it more as an ‘urban’ element, especially the smaller scale application such as bikes, car share, and hopefully some kind of ‘self driving/rickshaw/taxi’ model as time goes on and people don’t see the need to own cars in the city at all. Self driving city transport for aging boomers in smaller, contained, self supporting city environments as an addition to public transport seems to solve some issues. The real answer here is ‘less vehicles of any type”. Get some exercise you lazy buggers. Build walkable neighbourhoods and work environments.
Electric anything doesn’t unwind globalism though, does it? All that ‘stuff’ from other countries in the world that makes up our everyday world won’t get here on anything ‘electrically’ powered, or wind powered, or solar powered. It’s just not “on”. Get a map of the world if you think otherwise, or think about cancelling your fun vacation to Croatia from Vancouver.
A few years back the concept of ‘Peak Oil” and its consequences floated around, including this 52 minute documentary you can view below. The most interesting part to me is the bit about the 2003 “BLACKOUT’ in the north american east. That was before the “Internet” was around, which essentially runs our existence these day. Full disclosure, the Jag is a proud Albertan whose family has been part of Alberta oil and gas since the big fire in Leduc, 1947. Still be burning if some of my tribe didn’t help put it out. Yet I try to maintain an objective view on events, past present, and future. Here it is for those who might be interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3uvzcY2Xug

#56 Ace Goodheart on 07.25.19 at 8:28 pm

Tesla’s metrics don’t make sense.

It usually loses between $2.50 to $4.50 per share, per quarter.

The problem with Tesla is scaling up.

In Q1 2019, they delivered 63,000 vehicles. They reported a net loss per share of $2.90.

In Q1 2018, they delivered 29,980 vehicles. They lost $3.35 per share.

So for an extra 33,020 vehicles delivered, they were only able to narrow their per share loss by 45 cents per share.

Each time they double their production, they are able to shave about 13% off of their quarterly loss.

To get to zero, they would have to deliver about eight times the vehicles they are delivering right now, without building any new factories.

Problem is, their only functional factory is at capacity already. They actually build some of the cars in a tent in the parking lot.

The shares currently trade for $228.00, giving them a 40.45 billion dollar market capitalisation.

They are essentially worthless, because the company loses money each year, so they are just bleeding shareholder equity down to zero with a never ending cash burn.

They do not have a price to earnings ratio per say, as they have never earned money. If they did, say, increase their deliveries by ten times, without increasing their factory capacity at all, they could conceivably earn about twenty five cents per share.

That would put their price to earnings ratio, at the current share price, at about 938 to one (which is admittedly, quite ridiculous).

And that is if they can increase their deliveries by ten times, while keeping their fundamental metrics the same.

938 to one is, as I said, a ridiculous number.

Amazon’s PER is 99.53, one of the highest in the industry.

Canada’s big banks average around 10 to one.

And that is just one metric that really is out of the ball park and does not make sense at all. If you cobble all the numbers together, Tesla looks like an elaborate Ponzi scheme. Its financials simply do not make sense, on any scale or by any metric. It appears to be incapable of profit, no matter what you do with it. Yes, it builds interesting cars, but at a continuous loss. The company is basically paying money to give people cars for less than they’re worth.

And the cars are still more expensive then their comparative gasoline driven competition.

#57 Out Of Work CEO, Will Travel on 07.25.19 at 8:36 pm

The Millineal Generation and the ones after them are forming young families. You don’t leave your kids in the car alone in the summer heat and you can’t leave your kids in an electric vehicle to freeze in the Canadian northern winters. Our country is a huge Arctic Siberian tundra not an imagined shopping mall in Yorkville.

#58 drinkdivedance on 07.25.19 at 8:40 pm

#36 Vision

##########

95% of BC electricity comes from Hydro. So it is as green as it can get.

It is Alberta at 10% that is polluting. But that’s just because they love oil so much so they’d rather burn oil to make electricity.

Manitoba, Quebec, Yukon and Labrador all have Renewable generation at >90%. While Ontario has it at 25%. So you see, it is a matter of will and determination of the province whether or not it is polluting the environment.

#59 Phylis on 07.25.19 at 8:45 pm

Elon and Barnum, both operating out of tents. Love the idea not the company.

#60 drinkdivedance on 07.25.19 at 8:48 pm

#38 Alberta Ed

############

It is funny how oil heads all regurgitate the same spill. Manufacturing of anything emits CO2. Worst is the manufacturing, burning and transportation of oil.

You must’ve read a report commissioned by oil companies. Ones that are commissioned by renewables all points to the other direction.

But putting that aside, since everyone’s pushing their agenda, think about it with common sense.

Which produces more CO2 throughout its lifetime? A battery pack that doesn’t burn gasoline nor gets depleted? Or an engine that continues to burn gasoline in its lifetime that directly produces CO2 at an efficiency rate of 25%? Also the efficiency rate drops throughout its life.

A battery pack front loads its co2 emission while Gasoline is a constant burn throughout its lifetime. Also, battery recycling is a moot point, Lithium Ion battery can be recycled completely. Meaning as more lithium ion battery gets retired and recycled, the cost of battery goes down like Aluminium.

Then again, even confronted with facts, we are on opposite end of opinions and I know ppl don’t change their minds. Anyway, just try driving an EV once. Just like I am opened minded enough to have driven several ICE in my life.

#61 NoName on 07.25.19 at 8:55 pm

#39 TS on 07.25.19 at 6:36 pm
#33 No Name

reality vs preception of reality

———–

Thanks for the links from 2016…doesn’t even mention level 3 never mind 3+. Why spend 2500 when you can just go to one of 1000s of 200kW per hour charging stations that will inevitably exist as EVs scale. You can trickle charge while you’re sleeping at home when the utilities are charging negative rates and get paid to fill up.

Again, just try one. All the arguments against EVs seem to make sense until you own one. And then you wonder what took you so long. You won’t understand until you try it.


Level 3 charger is 20kVA per hour, that is a lot of juice.

To give you perspective, on an average day (24hours) we use (depending on a month) 19-27kW of hydro according to my bill. And what I do if some lowly life steels my cable and sells copper on scrap yard. Those cable ant cheap.

Yesterday, no word of the lie, I ordered power supply for kids laptop and it was 70cad for only 65w.

I happened to be mediocre electrician and in my whole carrier last 20yrs, I ONLY worked on a 1 yes one house that could accommodate level 2 charger, or level 3 but probably they would need to get rid of the indoor endless swimming pool and outdoor hot tub and second AC unit to accomodate charger, even then they could charge one car at the time.

ALL others house I worked on can’t, and I worked on many of them, all my neighborhood can’t easily handle level2, forget level3 chargers, my friends neighborhoods can’t handle level2 and 3 charger, without massive grid upgrade./

If we have like Europe 3f380/220v maybe electric cars are doable, on 2f240 no they are not, definitely not in massive numbers.

I went to end of the driveway and counted cars, 33 of them, on 1/2 of my street, lots of driveways empty. Do you honestly believe that hydro will be cheaper if all those cars were electric?

You are like my friend I work with every day he tell me that it took him 1kVA to get him self to work, in his plug in. Imagine that, takes same amount of energy to “cook” frozen lasagna in my microwave for 4 of us.

I am not against hybrids, preferably plug in hybrid, but electric only car is not for Canada, maybe for hipster or condo dweller with underground parking, park in a driveway stiff like me not beast choice.

You’ll find this Interesting read

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-true-cost-of-powering-an-electric-car.html

#62 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 8:59 pm

Electricity is Cheaper than gasoline?

Other than lower taxes I am a bit surprised that electricity is far cheaper than gasoline for running a car.

I know it is cheaper to buy electricity to run a large motor as opposed to getting a diesel or gasoline generator but that is partly due the inefficient heat loss. But there again even in winter, most of the heat generated by a gasoline car is unwanted and wasted.

But electricity generation also usually involves massive wasted heat.

When heat is the desired product, electricity is expensive. Electricity is a high grade of energy and it is basically thermodynamicly wasteful to use it to produce heat rather than to do work.

Electricity is cheaper for car fuel partly because electricity is subsidized (Ontario) and because much of it is generated from legacy hydro projects that were paid for years ago. Also a good portion in Alberta is generated from dirt cheap natural gas.

I don’t know how much of an advantage electricity would have with equal taxes and from newer current cost generation.

#63 palebird on 07.25.19 at 9:02 pm

#36
“95% of BC electricity comes from Hydro. So it is as green as it can get.

It is Alberta at 10% that is polluting. But that’s just because they love oil so much so they’d rather burn oil to make electricity.

Manitoba, Quebec, Yukon and Labrador all have Renewable generation at >90%. While Ontario has it at 25%. So you see, it is a matter of will and determination of the province whether or not it is polluting the environment.”

Wow you must have just stepped off of a spaceship. BC, Manitoba, Yukon, Quebec and Labrador have huge amounts of hydro power and utilize it. Wouldn’t you? The rest of the country has to rely on other means which entails burning fuel. What else are they going to do? Your statement on Alberta borders on idiotic. Ever been there? Not much for big hydro projects is there? No James Bay, no Peace River, as a matter a fact not much water at all.

#64 AACI Homedog on 07.25.19 at 9:05 pm

Rebates should be available on ebikes too. They are so fun, and useful for us older folk, especially where the roads are steep.

#65 Phylis on 07.25.19 at 9:10 pm

I’m ok with yall getting an electric car ad it will shift the TOU peak charges past 6pm and ac in the daytime will be cheaper. Wait until they need to road tax your ev, that will be a liberal moment to enjoy. We have a long road ahead of us yet… happy trails.

#66 2015 Leaf on 07.25.19 at 9:11 pm

Another 2015 Leaf owner here like #14. Pd $30k after incentives at the time.
4 years, ~62,000km, zero maintenance, zero battery degradation to date, brakes are original and at 80% as rarely use em – mainly regenerative braking.
Level 2 charger unit cost ~$200 from Home Depot and a buddy electrician installed in the garage for ~$100. Plug it in when I get home each night and the car is full every morning. Live in the Okanagan; there are LOTS of fast chargers around and more every year – have taken the car to the coast several times via Hwy 3 and no issues.
Didn’t buy it for the environment; Scottish on my mom’s side and it’s economical.
#25 – “…due for new batteries..” – false / ignorant comment.
#28 – “…brown outs…”; nope – power demands are lowest overnight when you’re charging your ev.
#40 – “…electricity is fossil fuel based or nuclear…” umm, not here it ain’t – hydro.
#42 – “…pulling up to a charging stn that’s broken…” – the apps (Greenlots, Plugshare) show the status of level 3 chargers for road trips – i.e. in use, out of service, etc, so that that doesn’t happen.
I didn’t buy a used Leaf due to trepidation about battery degradation. I’d recommend used Leafs as a great buy as my battery is as good as the day I got it – anecdotal but there you go.

#67 NoName on 07.25.19 at 9:17 pm

#58 drinkdivedance on 07.25.19 at 8:40 pm
#36 Vision

##########

95% of BC electricity comes from Hydro. So it is as green as it can get.

Is that so?

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/nov/06/hydropower-hydroelectricity-methane-clean-climate-change-study

#68 yvr_lurker on 07.25.19 at 9:19 pm

all the while China is spewing out tons of pollutants their huge coal plants. Saw for myself Shanghai this July for 10 days. In the suburbs near the major universities, this stuff is spewing out 24/7 from a major plant. Tried to go for a pre-dawn 10K run from the hotel, was coughing big-time after 8K and had to walk it. The little effort that Canada is making for electric vehicles, wasting taxpayer money, is completely insignificant until these other MAJOR countries do their part. China will do as it pleases.

I prefer taking my bike to go to work, and to keep the SUV for road trips and major groceries. Am not interested in buying an electric car with such a short range at this stage, and anything that Musk is involved with I will pass…. won’t see me lining up at 3am to get a future-bid on an over-priced Tesla from this megalomaniac.

#69 NoName on 07.25.19 at 9:20 pm

#66 2015 Leaf on 07.25.19 at 9:11 pm

That buddy electrician, did he by some chance got hydro permit to do that.

https://www.esasafe.com/business/owners-and-operators/ev

#70 IHCTD9 on 07.25.19 at 9:29 pm

#7 MF on 07.25.19 at 4:49 pm
#2 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 4:14

Wasn’t necessarily directed at IN, but Generally people who are cynical about the future need to think (or ponder) how life has improved for the vast majority of us.

Basically what you said.

MF
———

I don’t disagree that tech will continue, and life will likely keep getting better. I’ve actually posted many times on how consumers have benefited huge from globalism and technology (specifically the millennial generation).

My post dealt mainly with social changes compared to recent historical norms – most of which is already under way to varying degrees. All that stuff I posted has already been researched/predicted/discussed by those working in forecasting demographic changes. Not my ideas.

As far as what level of dystopia is involved, I guess it depends on what your opinion is on what what works for a society.

For example, Confucius believed family formed the basis of society and good government. His doctrine of filial piety displays the huge value he placed on family. So, Confucius would say we’re heading for a dystopian future.

A kid born 10 years from now who has never experienced a two parent home, close family ties, or a girlfriend may just say “meh”…

#71 drinkdivedance on 07.25.19 at 9:43 pm

#67 NoName on 07.25.19 at 9:17 pm

CO2 from fussile fule burning 26.6bil (1 year)
CO2 from methane: 7.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide. carbon dioxide over 20 years

Dams represent 23% of methane emission.

Gotta love reports that twist words
Sure the impact is higher over 20 years (less over 100 years), but the overall emission is much lower than fossile burning peers.

Source: https://www.internationalrivers.org/resources/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-dams-faq-4064

#72 drinkdivedance on 07.25.19 at 9:47 pm

#63 palebird on 07.25.19 at 9:02 pm

###############

You know, you guys can always just buy Hydro electricity from BC. Sure it cost more, but you guys are rich from all the oil you sell you can afford it.

#73 mike from mtl on 07.25.19 at 9:48 pm

It’s not complicated, just eliminate at least 90% of the population , third world included, all these pollution issues get under some semblance of responsibility.

The amount of waste, pollution, and general stupidity we do as a whole is really something else.

EV or not is still garbage is my book, it’s still materials, transport, energy and waste in the end to satisfy our selfish wants. Stuff is still stuff no matter how you frame.

Personal transport and plastics, a relatively new thing for humanity are probably up there with the worst we’ve thought of.

#74 IHCTD9 on 07.25.19 at 9:54 pm

1. What was the best selling vehicle in Canada last year?

2. How about the second best?

You already know it right?

Right.

The EV market is for urbanites, pretty much everyone else on the entire continent drives some form of truck. Only 2 of the best selling vehicles in Canada last year were not some kind of truck. Basically the more gas they burned, the more popular they were. Cars sell so few that Ford has basically stopped making them all together.

Some perspective: 50% of Ford’s ENTIRE sales volume in Canada last year was from a single vehicle, a full size honking 4×4 pick up truck.

FCA sold more RAM trucks than the entire JEEP brand combined.

EV’s have a long loooong way to go before they come anywhere CLOSE to “taking over”.

At least in Canada and the USA.

#75 Shawn on 07.25.19 at 9:57 pm

The FED should cut 50 bps but will only cut 25 bps. The BOC will follow in Oct. The FED will cut again in the fall. They could cut a 3rd time early 2020. The BOC will likely cut twice also.

Don’t bet the farm on it. – Garth

#76 Jesse on 07.25.19 at 9:57 pm

#47 Sail away on 07.25.19 at 7:33 pm
Elon Musk is an absolutely amazing person. SpaceX is the only private space enterprise to ever succeed. And it’s succeeded wildly. He’s kept it private to avoid having dingbat short-term thinkers cause stress as they are doing with Tesla, but I’d love to invest in SpaceX.

All his other ventures are proceeding and succeeding- Boring Company, solar roofs, OpenAI, Neuralink, low earth orbit internet satellite network. I’ve seen some commenters claim these aren’t succeeding, which is incorrect: the ventures are fully functional. The Boring Company just finished 2019 hyperloop competition with Germany’s TU Munich team winning with a speed of over 400kph; Microsoft just announced a partnership with OpenAI; solar roofs are in full production, low earth orbit satellites are being placed as predicted.

He’s an incredible person. A normal person criticizing Elon is like a potato criticizing a computer.
**********************************

420
Funding Secured
TSLAQ
;)

#77 Jesse on 07.25.19 at 10:01 pm

#57 Out Of Work CEO, Will Travel on 07.25.19 at 8:36 pm
The Millineal Generation and the ones after them are forming young families.
**************************

No they aren’t…and that’s a big problem.

#78 SoggyShorts on 07.25.19 at 10:05 pm

#22 Eaglebay on 07.25.19 at 5:41 pm
“where climate change seems to be making weather more extreme”

Climate change is average weather over 1000s and 1000s of years. The weather isn’t any more extreme than in the past 100 years.

*******************
You can’t actually believe that. There’s simply no possible way for you to have done an ounce of research and really think that. I mean like 5 minutes on the internet and you’ll find dozens of examples of
“Highest temperatures ever recorded”
“18 of the 19 hottest years ever have been in the last 20 years”
“Longest drought in recorded history”
“Worst floods on record”
The list of verifiable events goes on and on. These aren’t predictions of the future these are already happening and we’re making it happen faster.

Has the climate always changed? Of course it has, no one disputes that, but when beaches became oceans and lakes became deserts no one really cared a million years ago, did they?

Climate change is real.
We are accelerating it.
Vaccines don’t cause Autism.
The world is not flat.

Life tip: if your beliefs are considered “a little out there” do some more research.
Try typing “The thing I think is true MYTH DEBUNKED” into google and get another perspective on the subject.

#79 SoggyShorts on 07.25.19 at 10:10 pm

#22 Eaglebay on 07.25.19 at 5:41 pm

A really easy read of things you are already seeing happen:

https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/7-effects-climate-change-already-seeing

#80 acdel on 07.25.19 at 10:15 pm

Certainly not an EV hater but realistic. Living in the Prairies with the temps that we receive along with the long distances, at this stage it is not practical or safe. I would not risk my families safety being stuck in a traffic jam in extreme temps. Let see where the technology takes us.

#81 Arto on 07.25.19 at 10:27 pm

Correction: Musk never invented PayPal nor was he the first to vertically land rockets. McDonnell Douglas did it first in the 90s but found it uneconomical. Musk is a charlatan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzXcTFfV3Ls

#82 Doug in Londinium on 07.25.19 at 10:34 pm

Yes, sales are up 100% in BC and 56% in Quebec. No doubt the benevolent government incentives are the main reason, but a contributing factor may be cheaper hydro rates. Why? It’s easy to provide cheap electricity when the bulk of power generation in BC and Quebec is dirt cheap hydroelectric.

#83 IHCTD9 on 07.25.19 at 10:37 pm

#52 Do Your Research Please Garth on 07.25.19 at 8:07 pm

EVs can be charged for around $1.5 per 100 km.

———

The pre-subsidy cost of electricity in Ontario was $0.25 for a 1000 watts tax in. So 1.50 will buy you about 6 kw.

A Nissan Leaf needs 22 kw to drive 100 km (calculating in charging losses).

Please tell me which ev you drive so I can buy one immediately. I am assuming it’s some kind of car, but if your ev is actually an electric bicycle or skate board, forget it – I’m not interested.

FWIW, I did the proper math based on running a Tesla S on pre subsidy Ontario electricity, and it was about the same as running a Honda Civic at 1.20 / litre.

#84 Slim on 07.25.19 at 10:38 pm

5 Reasons You Shouldn’t Buy a Tesla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vo9e8dXoIg

#85 NoName on 07.25.19 at 10:44 pm

#120 Paul on 07.25.19 at 7:08 pm
My sister just bought a Tesla. I have to say I’m impressed. Plus free money. 5k Fed grant, 5k (3k now) BC grant, 6k (other EV makes) Scrap it program.
If I needed a car I would certainly buy a Tesla.
I’m also amazed at what Elon Musk has accomplished. Especially when he made his patent available for others on the internet. Huge contrast to those CEO’s showing up in private jets to collect the biggest government (taxpayers) bailout. Infrastructure has a long way to go but for local traffic EV is the future.

if toes patents have any value they or they are diffikult to contest and dispute they would not be free. There is a person elons good friend or one of the early investors cant remember what is corect of those two, who is also employed by tesla that hold all good patents in his name. Google it if you don believe me.

And i bet you any money there is a claws in a his contract that states that all his inventions belong to tesla if they are invented during his employmet with tesla.

I had to sign same same form with my privious employee. Luckily for me i wasnt smart enough to invent anything, saved lots of disappointments.

Who in their right mind would gave up on an advantage over comperatators.

—-
nasa gave spacxe tons of stuf for free, reserch right on patents and all resources for spacex.

https://www.inverse.com/article/15272-nasa-releases-rocket-and-aircraft-patents-for-spacex-and-blue-origin-to-sink-teeth-into

#86 Kothar on 07.25.19 at 10:47 pm

If I can’t fill up and go in 2 mins vs the hr or more for these then sorry not for me. Also no manual transmission. Sorry I row my own gears!

#87 C8.R on 07.25.19 at 11:07 pm

I love my commute, driving a proper RWD sport sedan with a 6.0L V8 is music to my ears and makes me smile ear to ear. The silence of a an electric car with a single gear/variable speed transmission has no personality. Not for me. Even if they are fast off the line, there no escaping the physics of trying to make a heavy car change direction and stop.

Rather have a C8 Corvette… GM has massively impressed. The worlds super cars are on notice, a $60k “base Z51” Corvette goes 0-60 in under 3 seconds… a $400k Ford GT can’t even go that with 150+ more horsepower and its basically a purpose built race car. Stingray or no way.

#88 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.25.19 at 11:11 pm

#118 TheDood on 07.25.19 at 5:09 pm
#59 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.25.19 at 12:45 am
Just found this great deal on a decent house in a decent neighborhood in Richmond.
Looks like a steal for 990k.
Or is the new reality?
https://www.ovlix.com/property/2soYgj-8971-Wagner-Drive-Richmond-BC-V7A4N2
__________________________

Wow! What a steal!!! LOL!

More like…..what a dump! If that’s worth a million to you…..whatever makes you happy!
——————
Obviously, you’re living under a rock and don’t know that RE in Richmond is among the most expensive in Canada.
The lot alone is worth about 1.5 mill.
Context, man, context.

#89 NoName on 07.25.19 at 11:22 pm

#71 drinkdivedance on 07.25.19 at 9:43 pm
#67 NoName on 07.25.19 at 9:17 pm

CO2 from fussile fule burning 26.6bil (1 year)
CO2 from methane: 7.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide. carbon dioxide over 20 years

Dams represent 23% of methane emission.

Gotta love reports that twist words
Sure the impact is higher over 20 years (less over 100 years), but the overall emission is much lower than fossile burning peers.

Source: https://www.internationalrivers.org/resources/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-dams-faq-4064

“The study from Washington State University finds that methane, which is at least 34 times more potent than another greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide,

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/nov/06/hydropower-hydroelectricity-methane-clean-climate-change-study

#90 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.25.19 at 11:24 pm

#2 Shawn Allen on 07.25.19 at 4:14 pm
Ponder what?

#110 MF on 07.25.19 at 3:12 pm said to
105 IHCTD9 on 07.25.19 at 2:48 pm

100 years ago life on planet earth for the majority was worse than it is now. Ponder that.

********************************
Not sure I get your meaning. Ponder it? What’s to ponder? Life on planet earth is so much better for the majority than 100 years ago that it boggles the mind. I mean in 1919 we were just past the Spanish Flu that wiped out millions and WW I (then known as the Great War) wiped out millions. Autos were to horse and buggy as today Teslas are to gasoline autos. Rural Canada and rural USA were years away from being electrified or even having indoor plumbing in many cases. Most people did not have a telephone. The “wireless” was the radio and reserved for the wealthy. Infant mortality was very high. It goes on and on.

And we are still progressing in leaps and bounds. Betting against the future continuing to be better for generations to come is a bad bet.
———–
Agreed, economic growth has been exponential.
But, so has environmental degradation.
Diminishing returns will mostly negate all gains in the future.

#91 TRUMP on 07.25.19 at 11:34 pm

GREAT ADVICE GARTH!!!!

Buying a Tesla would be like marrying the first girl you KISSED.

You’ve got to own some others makes and models….. and some models of those other makes before you know what you want to ride for the long haul.

I’ll leave it at that.

#92 SoggyShorts on 07.25.19 at 11:41 pm

#83 IHCTD9 on 07.25.19 at 10:37 pm
#52 Do Your Research Please Garth on 07.25.19 at 8:07 pm

EVs can be charged for around $1.5 per 100 km.

———

The pre-subsidy cost of electricity in Ontario was $0.25 for a 1000 watts tax in

*****************************
Where’s you get that number IHCTD9 ?
From what I can tell it’s 100-300% depending on time higher than this link shows:
https://www.oeb.ca/rates-and-your-bill/electricity-rates

#93 NoName on 07.25.19 at 11:44 pm

#71 drinkdivedance on 07.25.19 at 9:43 pm

CO2 from fussile fule burning 26.6bil (1 year)
CO2 from methane: 7.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide. carbon dioxide over 20 years

Dams represent 23% of methane emission.

Gotta love reports that twist words
Sure the impact is higher over 20 years (less over 100 years), but the overall emission is much lower than fossile burning peers.

Source: https://www.internationalrivers.org/resources/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-dams-faq-4064

i shoud stop now, tomorow is my 15th anyversary, i dont know how my wife keeps up with me and kids, she must be saint… Go Wife!!!

here it is story about train, not tomas the train but coal train. iam wondering do they have carbon tax overthere…
https://www.greaterfool.ca/2016/12/18/unhinged/#comment-490595

i winder why afluence and emacnipation in europe love to burn us forests.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/4/18216045/renewable-energy-wood-pellets-biomass

Funny thing they have sweet spot for ilegaly cut down romainan rain forest …

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/illegal-logging-in-romania-benefits-germany-a-1032253.html

all that under renewables and they steel charge carbon tax whats up with that.

#94 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.25.19 at 11:46 pm

#28 Yukon Elvis on 07.25.19 at 5:53 pm
When we all drive electric vehicles and we all plug them in to recharge will we have brown outs? Will the electric grid supply enough energy to charge our cars and heat/cool/illuminate our homes at the same time? Will people protest new hydro electric dams like they do pipelines ? Hmmmm…..
————
Good points.
Also, 10 years not many people had A/Cs.
Nowadays, portable A/C units sell like hot cakes.
And, most newly builds come with A/Cs build in.
Modern Highrises are like furnaces and in sommer the A/Cs will go full tilt.
Where will the juice come from to meet all that demand?
Just asking.
And don’t suggest nuclear.

#95 Al on 07.25.19 at 11:46 pm

“Paying a premium for an EV or for the same amount of money (generally) buy a Honda Civic and have gas money for 10 years.”

No. A similarly equipped/ performing Honda Civic will cost you lot more over 10 years vs an EV, assuming average kilometres. Ppl dont get this.

In BC and QC (the biggest incentives and higher gas prices) the payback is quite a bit less than five years. There’s no financial sense in buying a similar gas vehicle with these incentives. The cheaper EVs now get 385-420 of range. If you have winter where you live, you may lose a third of range. If you regularly drive five hours straight during winter time, id get a plug in hybrid (volt, clarity, Prius prime etc..). Hardly anyone does yet the range excuse gets trotted out almost instantly. Lots of fast chargers where most ppl in Canada live and drive. They’re even free in BC. I guess ppl like driving noisy, unresponsive, smelly vehicles. Lining up at gas stations is fun apparently too. Way better than plugging the car at home.

#96 PeterfromCalgary on 07.25.19 at 11:50 pm

Batteries don’t work well in the cold. Unless you live in Vancouver or some place warmer stay away from EVs.

#97 cgabe on 07.25.19 at 11:53 pm

I sail up and down the Nova Scotia coast with sails furled and small diesel running…that is a true hybrid unlike the gas guzzling 350’s 450’s…

#98 Joe Calgary on 07.25.19 at 11:59 pm

I am the ultimate gear head, and even I have warmed up to electric cars. Tesla’s model 3 gets 500km to a charge not 350km and it only takes half hr to charge on a supercharger and costs about $20. Also no maintenance apart from tire replacement when worn out. The technology is much more relevant than you say. At this point buying a regular car makes no sense.

#99 Al on 07.26.19 at 12:39 am

“If you do a cost benefit analysis of EVs you will find that the price point for ownership is not there yet – even with the lame grants. They need to increase the grants like in Cali..
It is still currently cheaper to own a gas powered car even with gas prices at $2 per liter and maintenance costs. However, most Canadians can’t do math so having to fill up at the pump with increasing gas prices somehow justifies high EV prices…
Check out the cost of replacement batteries on these cars that last about 8 years”

7 yr old Tesla’s batteries are averaging over 90%. Volt batteries are at 100 of original range. Old Leaf batteries suck but don’t necessarily need to be replaced. Lease a Leaf. Why would EV batteries need to be replaced every 8 years? The battery warranty is for 8 years. Like your ICE engine transmission warranty for 4 years doesnt mean it needs replacement every 4 years.

You should do that cost benefit analysis you mention with like vehicles ( no Nissan Micra, base Yaris vs Bolt comparisons) They’re way cheaper. If you use $2 a liter, things will be even grimer for the ICE cars. BC ers are buying EV because it saves them lots of money, at least the ones who are not poor at math.

#100 Smoking Man on 07.26.19 at 1:12 am

4 James on 07.25.19 at 4:25 pm

Even with the $5000 bribe that T2 and his cronies are providing I would not purchase an EV. Vote buying! They are digging deep now to keep their phony jobs going. Look at us we are helping the environment by giving you a $5000 coupon on a $55000 set of shiny new wheels. What other crumbs is Mr Socks about to throw out to the electorate. Free beer? Free pot? Free pizza to follow the free Pot?
Nope he lost me at “The budget will balance itself”

We may be friends one day..

After the Mueller disaster. Maybe your woke.

What they did to Mueller was disgusting ‘ 18 Clinton hatchet men loyal to the network of people who like children a bit too much for my liking.

Democrats are finished. Not enough freak show star bucks employees to out vote people who value the family more than anything else.

T2 is going down ‘ put it on the fridge.
Soros check mate.

Trump will win the house the Senate ‘ the White House and one more seat on the supreme court.

Dogs. Its finally going to be socially ok to be normal..

Dr Smoking Man
Phd Herdonomics

#101 Cici on 07.26.19 at 1:36 am

#23 Damifino

Thanks for that post, it’s good to hear there are people who care about environmental conditions in other parts of the world and the daily plights of people living in those places as well.

And Garth, good choice of blog post. This one is new, fresh and really set the comments section ablaze.

#102 Smoking Man on 07.26.19 at 1:39 am

DELETED

#103 SimplyPut7 on 07.26.19 at 1:47 am

#13 TS on 07.25.19 at 5:14 pm

Encouraging a country with too much debt to go into more debt to buy an EV is not the best way to reduce carbon emissions.

The best way to reduce carbon emissions is to have fewer kids.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4204289.1499983814!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_780/emissions-choices.jpg

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/emissions-reduction-choices-1.4204206

This is just a smug pet project from someone in the Liberal government to make themselves look like they care about the planet.

The rebate doesn’t even cover all of the taxes that have to be paid to buy the vehicles. I don’t see how this small rebate was going to help someone decide to buy an EV instead of a car that uses gasoline, especially older (cheaper) pre-owned vehicles which are not covered under the iZev rebate.

If you were already planning to buy a new EV knowing all the problems they currently have, then you probably didn’t need the government handout paid with debt future generations will have to figure out how to pay off.

Things to consider when buying an EV:
* not working well in extreme heat or cold
* finding charging stations when you don’t live in a home that is allowed to have one
* spending at least 45 minutes to an hour to charge your car (2018 Chevrolet Volt takes 4.5 hours to charge, 2019 Volt 2.3 hours), assuming no one else is waiting in line for the charger
* requiring a special type of tow truck to come to get you if your battery dies and your car becomes a two-tonne paperweight

#104 Shaggy on 07.26.19 at 5:39 am

Garth, I’m surprised at you. this is a pretty uninformed post. I’m not one of the crazy Tesla fanboys, although I did recently buy one. I chose a Tesla over the other brands because of their vast supercharger network, and the fact that you can charge 0-80% in about a half hour. All for about $5. Plus, the maintenance is less and the resale value of Teslas holds up better than gas cars. Yes, an EV can take eons to charge if you plug into a normal wall plug, and the public charging network is very limited, but these limitations don’t apply to Teslas, the subject of your article.

You say lease over buy based on the rapid pace of tech change, but lease rates are 7% and the company pushes out over the air updates about once a month and has rectified range and braking issues without any hardware updates.

There’s some really interesting nuggets in what you write (i.e. consumer trends), but, overall, I think this one required a little more research. Wouldn’t recommend the stock to my worst enemy, though, the fundamentals are horrible.

#105 under the radar on 07.26.19 at 5:47 am

My sister in law ditched her Lexus and bought the top of the line Tesla. That was a year ago. I gave her a lift in my 2019 Laramie Longhorn and she was blown away by the miles of leather , the 12 inch screen and the superb ride quality. Her Tesla is according to her , junk and is being replaced with another Lexus.

#106 crazyfox on 07.26.19 at 7:14 am

Good comments here so far. I’m glad Garth brought up Tesla’s and EV’s in general for so many reasons. Lets get to them.

Say what you will about the rear wheel drive Tesla… one thing you can’t say about them is that they are junk. This is one well built car. They are likely the best engineered EV manufactured in North America hands down. It’s not just torque or range we are talking about here, but comfort and ride. Taking a ride in a Tesla is an experience in a car that sells itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z3ZjnwbA3s

I truly believe the best is yet to come with Tesla owners because they are built to last. It begins with the shell. The frame and the battery compartment which is the entire undercarriage of the car has zero flex. The chassis of gassers flex. We see it visibly on 1/2 ton truck frames all the time. Gas driven cars flex with their frames, we just don’t pick up on it. The Tesla is a rigid ride because it has to be to keep the integrity of the battery compartment which is the entire undercarriage of the car. With flex comes the increased risk of fire which could end Tesla before it begins since the undercarriage is filled with 21,700 battery cells again, compartmentalized to dramatically reduce the risk of fire. The engineering challenges of an EV with battery and weight challenges have pushed the design towards a car that is simply built to last. Far fewer moving parts, rigid chassis and air ride suspension with solid state electronics all point to a car that has unheard of longevity. Perhaps this is why Tesla offers an 8 year unlimited mile warranty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP82kvk70Vg

The Tesla much to the surprise of many, is not a light car (on average 4700 pounds curb weight) in part because of the weight of its battery and in part because of the structural integrity of the chassis to take the weight without flex. The Tesla has a heavy, road hug feel to it due to the lower center gravity and weight of the car giving it a comfortable ride one would expect in a large comfort built rear wheel drive car but with weight displaced more evenly on an EV as opposed to a front heavy gasser with a front wheel drive power train. The key to the ride of a Tesla is weight displaced evenly on its front and back tires near 50/50 and its lower center of gravity on an air ride coil suspension with the Model 3’s.

The only EV that has been able to compete with Tesla in sales in North America has been the Chevy Volt. In all comparison specs and test drives the only thing the Volt had on Tesla was a lower price. Chev lost the EV sales battle with Tesla for good reason. They manufactured an inferior EV compared to the Tesla and they knew it so Chev pulled the plug on the Volt for next year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykw3vDs8nAw

Is Chev giving up on EV’s? Far from it. Chev is doubling down on EV brands but they are privately playing catch up with Tesla among other EV’s coming out in 2020:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5VX2gu5mgc

So lets recap so far. Tesla is the world’s best selling EV in 2018 for all the right reasons. Call Elon Musk what you will, but acknowledge in the same breath that he led Tesla into the highest EV sales in the world in 2018. That’s not a fluke. This is sunny Cali doing what it does best in tech… lead. To Musk’s critics, I say what did you do that was so Earth shaking? But I wander, can Tesla stay #1? I think they can this year and maybe next but they will face stiff competition from incumbent manufacturers from there not just with incumbents catching up but with breakthrough tech in the areas of solid state batteries.

Ford, VW, Volvo, Nissan and Honda will be competitive and what of China! The world’s #1 car manufacturing nation is pushing towards 98% EV market share by 2025 although we won’t see Chinese manufactured EV’s any time soon in North America but the best EV in the world y’know… today, an EV that you can afford with 4G self diving capability is Tesla.

A few comments on the carbon footprint of EV’s, lets address that. The carbon footprint on metal, carbon composites, plastics, hydrocarbon end products from resource extraction and commodity to manufacturing and shipping, lets make an educated guess and say its 5 to 1 meaning for every manufactured pound of car there were 5 pounds of C02 in emissions. A barrel of light crude is 87% carbon. A 4700 pound car with a 5:1 ratio of C02 footprint if that’s accurate, is equivalent to burning 27,000 lbs of gas or 2700 gallons. @ 20 miles to a gallon, there is 86,400 km’s of C02 emissions before the car turns a wheel. But the question remains…. how far will Tesla’s go before they wear out?

The word on the street is… wait for it… 800,000 kms. Tesla batteries degrade 7% after the first 100k or so you tube videos claim. What does the average gasser get, 250 k before its wore out?

Winters are not kind to EV batteries in Canada. This can change with breakthroughs in solid state batteries over the next 5 years but for right now, in higher latitude nations in rural areas especially, hybrids are the way to go. The need for hybrid tech in cars and trucks, planes trains and ships are wide open world wide. And, if you like trucks and are thinking EV, check out Rivian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw

If memory serves, they start at $ 71K U.S. which is what you can spend for a gaser in its class in Canada. 410 mile range… 11,000 lb towing… an electric motor for each wheel… air ride suspension… this is a truck. Impressive for a startup. It illustrates what incumbents are truly up against, Cali intel without the mountains of debt.

But it all comes late. So late. Too late likely. Its not like we didn’t know or weren’t told in one way or another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM0uZ9mfOUI

#107 Penny Henny on 07.26.19 at 7:25 am

“An identical penthouse suite sold in March for $999,000, and nearby condos have recently listed for $949,000. The sellers’ agent set the asking price in that same range. The result: 32 showings. Because the penthouse is only on the sixth floor, some potential buyers felt the terrace didn’t provide enough privacy from surrounding buildings. In the end, there was just one offer, for $76,000 over asking.”

The sellers ‘greed’ had nothing to do with this one. It was the buyer’s stupidity.
I’m surprised she allowed ‘Toronto Life’ to publish the data, is she proud she ‘WON’ the bidding war?

https://torontolife.com/real-estate/condos/toronto-condo-sold-47-lower-river-street/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=The%20Hunt%20July%2026%202019&utm_content=The%20Hunt%20July%2026%202019+CID_36701555bb0bbfebba26538a4486fb9c&utm_source=Newsletters&utm_term=Sale%20of%20the%20Week%20The%201-million%20penthouse%20that%20proves%20the%20West%20Don%20Lands%20are%20becoming%20a%20thing

#108 Penny Henny on 07.26.19 at 7:29 am

Oh and to note, the sellers bought the property for $659,000 in 2016. In 2019 it sold for $1,025,000

#109 It's Okay to be Black on 07.26.19 at 7:40 am

DELETED

#110 Tater on 07.26.19 at 7:54 am

47 Sail away on 07.25.19 at 7:33 pm
Elon Musk is an absolutely amazing person. SpaceX is the only private space enterprise to ever succeed. And it’s succeeded wildly. He’s kept it private to avoid having dingbat short-term thinkers cause stress as they are doing with Tesla, but I’d love to invest in SpaceX.

All his other ventures are proceeding and succeeding- Boring Company, solar roofs, OpenAI, Neuralink, low earth orbit internet satellite network. I’ve seen some commenters claim these aren’t succeeding, which is incorrect: the ventures are fully functional. The Boring Company just finished 2019 hyperloop competition with Germany’s TU Munich team winning with a speed of over 400kph; Microsoft just announced a partnership with OpenAI; solar roofs are in full production, low earth orbit satellites are being placed as predicted.

He’s an incredible person. A normal person criticizing Elon is like a potato criticizing a computer.

————————

This is the sort of mushy headed thinking that’s truly damaging to society.

Musk is no longer involved with OpenAI.

Actual brain scientists aren’t at all impressed by neualink.

No commercial hyper loops will be built as they are massively expensive and can’t move anywhere near the volume of passengers to make them cost effective.

The roof tiles are not in mass production, and likely never will be. Based on Tesla’s reported financials that business is being wound down.

Have you ever heard of Blue Origin, perhaps? They also will be in the low orbit satellite business. And given Bezo’s history as an operator I’d much rather bet on them.

Musk has been a Chairman of CEO of a public co for 55 quarters. Only 8 of them have shown a profit. And only 3 of 39 at Tesla.

But doesn’t the snake oil taste good?

#111 maxx on 07.26.19 at 8:34 am

@#8

Yup. We are in our 16th year of owning a Corolla. Fires up in -30C with the first quarter turn of the key. I LOVE its reliability. Uses little gas, has super-low maintenance and for its pains gets an oil change every 5000km, without exception.

Our first was a Tercel bought in ’87, just as reliable. Traded it in for the Corolla and are beyond satisfied. Buying economical and fewer cars is our approach. We’re aiming for 20+ years on the Corolla….and apart from a few scratches, the little beast looks great.

We’d lease an EV, however at this point it seems like a LOT of expense, hassle and for us the novelty is just not worth it.

#112 Sail Away on 07.26.19 at 9:24 am

#110 Tater on 07.26.19 at 7:54 am
47 Sail away on 07.25.19 at 7:33 pm

He’s an incredible person.

A normal person criticizing Elon is like a potato criticizing a computer.

————————

This is the sort of mushy headed thinking that’s truly damaging to society.

Musk is no longer involved with OpenAI.

Actual brain scientists aren’t at all impressed by neualink.

No commercial hyper loops will be built as they are massively expensive and can’t move anywhere near the volume of passengers to make them cost effective.

The roof tiles are not in mass production, and likely never will be. Based on Tesla’s reported financials that business is being wound down.

Have you ever heard of Blue Origin, perhaps? They also will be in the low orbit satellite business. And given Bezo’s history as an operator I’d much rather bet on them.

Musk has been a Chairman of CEO of a public co for 55 quarters. Only 8 of them have shown a profit. And only 3 of 39 at Tesla.

But doesn’t the snake oil taste good?

———————————————-

Criticizing Elon, eh? At least you have the right name.

I get a kick out of assertions like (and I paraphrase): ‘not currently being done, but when they get going Elon will be in trouble’

…yawn…

#113 NoName on 07.26.19 at 9:47 am

@crazyanimal,, what is my favorite is when people will use fear and say for the sake of our children, as you did other day.

We know you are trolling, because if you are not, and believe 100% in you own speel it’s frightening…

One thing for you to remember not to do is to have an accident with ev when is raining or snowing, ev will look pinto as non event.

And on a side note, If i have to chose controled internal combustion vs spontaneous self combustion, I’ll chose ill chose controled internal.combustion so my children can be safe and live long to witness this upcoming climate change apocalypse, that our government is attempting to fix with higher taxation.

https://geekologie.com/2019/04/tesla-model-s-explodes-into-flames-in-sh.php

And while we are on a topic of weight just imagine what will battery extra weight do the roads. Luckily pawing Hwys with asphfalt new is 3-4 more green than making concrete…

#114 James on 07.26.19 at 9:49 am

#65 Phylis on 07.25.19 at 9:10 pm

I’m ok with yall getting an electric car ad it will shift the TOU peak charges past 6pm and ac in the daytime will be cheaper. Wait until they need to road tax your ev, that will be a liberal moment to enjoy. We have a long road ahead of us yet… happy trails.
__________________________________________
Exactly and well stated. What a large number is environmental tree hugging good old Canadians do not understand is that their greedy tax loving government needs to bleed you dry with fuel taxes. This is to pay for their social justice movements and the roads somewhat. They peel away this tax money into general coffers and it disappears. These taxes can range on depending where you reside in this country upwards of 40% of the cost of your daily tank up. I am sure the Liberal cronies sitting in the backbenches are thinking up ways of recouping those taxes on the day the last drop of oil is pumped. It will be either through your electricity bill or through user pay systems such as tolls. Somebody has to pay for their ridicules spending habits.
I’m hoping in October Mr Socks is going to be standing on the corner of the exit ramp from the 417 at Bronson Ave with a placard saying out of work need money! Please be nice to “Peoplekind”
https://www.taxpayer.com/media/2018-GTHD-EN.pdf

#115 IHCTD9 on 07.26.19 at 10:02 am

#105 under the radar on 07.26.19 at 5:47 am

I gave her a lift in my 2019 Laramie Longhorn…

———

Those things have a beautiful interior, best of any truck for 2019. That air suspension must be nice too, my 7000 lb Sierra 2500hd rides like a flatbed!

#116 IHCTD9 on 07.26.19 at 10:23 am

#92 SoggyShorts on 07.25.19 at 11:41 pm
#83 IHCTD9 on 07.25.19 at 10:37 pm
#52 Do Your Research Please Garth on 07.25.19 at 8:07 pm

EVs can be charged for around $1.5 per 100 km.

———

The pre-subsidy cost of electricity in Ontario was $0.25 for a 1000 watts tax in
*****************************
Where’s you get that number IHCTD9 ?
From what I can tell it’s 100-300% depending on time higher than this link shows:

https://www.oeb.ca/rates-and-your-bill/electricity-rates

———-

The .25 / kWh came from my hydro bill, bottom line divided by total use.

The number would vary up and down based on how much I used, and when I used it, but a quarter a kWh was a good middle range.

That link shows only the bare electricity costs, you have to add on a slew of other charges (line losses, delivery, provincial benefit etc…) and of course taxes to get the real cost.

Right now the cost is almost half that thanks to Wynne’s “debt for discount swap”, but that will not last.

#117 Do Your Research Please Garth on 07.26.19 at 10:23 am

IHCTD9,

You seem to be confusing kW and kWh. kW is a unit of power, while kWh is a unit of energy.

In Ontario, off-peak electricity rates are $0.065 per kWh. The off-peak period is 7PM – 7AM meaning this is the rate you’d pay if you charged your car over night.

A 2018 Nissan Leaf has a 40 kWh battery.

If you charged using a 240V outlet, you’d draw a power of around 6 kW. You’d also consume 6 kWh of hydro for every hour you left it plugged in (until it is fully charge).

To go from empty to full would take 6.67 hours and would consume 40 kWh of electricity.

At $0.065/kWh, 40 kWh would cost you $2.60. That would give you a range of 240 km, which works out to a little over $1 per 100 km.

Fuel efficient ICE vehicles cost around $8 per 100 km to fill up.

The savings are clearly there!

By the way, a 240V charge is called a Level 2 charger. There are also public Level 3 chargers that could fill the Leaf from empty to full in about 30 minutes.

Check out ChargeHub’s calculators for more info.

#118 NoName on 07.26.19 at 10:27 am

Here is a freebie bastiges, buy rits when you them cheap all malls are making comeback with all this electric charging stations in a future, Amazon and e-commerce will flatline. When? When I buy plug in hybrid f150.

You can print this and put it on a fridge. (I came up with that first!)

—-

Here it is charging time per charger “model” and voltage and current. Level 1 2 miles per hour charged, isn’t that qute.

https://www.pluglesspower.com/learn/tesla-model-s-charging-home-public-autonomously/

And on a side note, it’s is a great time to be an electrician, even if you are mediocre one.

#119 Penny Henny on 07.26.19 at 10:42 am

#49 Flop… on 07.25.19 at 7:51 pm

Well someone on here a few weeks ago asked my to do my version of a housing report and the next morning when I went out to go to work someone had vandalized my vehicle.

/////////////

A short while back my mom was talking about a friend of her’s who went to the doctor and two weeks later the friend was dead.
She, in her mind, linked the two together. 1-go to the doctor for tests and 2-think the tests caused the friend’s death.
I suggested maybe the reason they went to the doctor in the first place was because something wasn’t right.
Also this friend was in their late eighties so for them to pass away it not too unusual.

Anyways my long winded point is that sometimes a coincidence is just a coincidence.
It’s not as if yours is the first vehicle in East Van to be vandalized.

#120 entropy on 07.26.19 at 10:48 am

Audi Etron making big gains in this segment. The main manufacturers will quickly exceed Tesla.

#121 IHCTD9 on 07.26.19 at 11:05 am

#117 Do Your Research Please Garth on 07.26.19 at 10:23 am
IHCTD9,

You seem to be confusing kW and kWh. kW is a unit of power, while kWh is a unit of energy.
——

Hydro does not cost 6.5 cents per kWh in Ontario. Pre subsidy it was .25, now it is about half that. You have to add on delivery, line losses, taxes, etc.. to arrive at the actual cost you’re paying.

A quick google on your part will reveal a Leaf consumes 21-22 kw of power to drive 100 km. Pre Wynne subsidy this would cost you $5.50 to go 100 km, or about the same as something like an early 2000’s tdi diesel golf.

There is little savings to be had with an ev when hydro costs .25 (which it will again in 2-3 years when the subsidy ends).

#122 NoName on 07.26.19 at 11:09 am

No that was thinking a bit If I am in any way related to the education in gov. now it’s great time to capitalize on empty school parking lots, and draw lease contracts for charging stations.

Imagine funding schools science labs and learning them to code with all that extra cash.

I steel think that tesla and pure electric car suck. But it seams that direction is clear.

#123 Sail away on 07.26.19 at 11:11 am

From Henry Ford:

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

#124 Phylis on 07.26.19 at 11:21 am

Off topic today, but was just hit up with a new sales tactic. (New to me at least) Things must be tough out there. Just got a cold call from a real-estate agent. Expected the same old, “how about listing with me?”. This time it was, do you know anyone interested in buying the house down the street? Times have changed indeed.

#125 cramar on 07.26.19 at 11:27 am

Well, as others pointed out, Musk did NOT start Tesla.

I certainly agree with Garth that for long distances in Canada an EV may not be ideal. However, it could be the ideal choice as a commuter vehicle. You charge it overnight in your garage and drive to and fro to work at 1/4 the cost of gas. That’s where it really make sense. A performance Tesla rather than a Porsche for wealthy financial advisors.

As for Musk, I am a fan of this true visionary. I wouldn’t bet against him. It seems most critics will never accomplish 10% of what he has already done.

#126 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.26.19 at 11:39 am

People say: build more charging stations.
I say: where will the juice for these stations come from?
If you are short on gas, building more gas stations is not the answer.
It’s like thinking that borrowing more will get you out of debt.

#127 Yukon Elvis on 07.26.19 at 11:44 am

Average home prices in Canada are more than double what younger Canadians can afford, according to new research that looks at the state of housing affordability in every province and the major cities within them.

Released by Generation Squeeze, the study shows Canadians between the ages of 25 and 34 continue to straddle a massive gap between housing prices that remain at near-historic levels in key parts of the country and average earnings for this age group that have been relatively flat.

Data in this report show that average home prices in Canada would need to fall $223,000 – about half of the current value – for someone 25 to 34 to be able to afford an 80 per cent mortgage. Alternatively, typical full-time earnings for this age group would need to increase to $93,400 per year, which is nearly double current levels.

#128 Steve on 07.26.19 at 11:55 am

It’s already happening all over. Google it. Governments all over are imposing yearly fees on EV owners to make up for the lost revenue in gas taxes. And these fees are only going up up and up. Lol.

#129 Al on 07.26.19 at 11:55 am

“The pre-subsidy cost of electricity in Ontario was $0.25 for a 1000 watts tax in. So 1.50 will buy you about 6 kw.”

No it wasn’t, at least not in Ottawa. Unless youre talking about peak hours or are factoring the sunk cost portion of the service youd have to pay for anyways. That’s all moot as that’s not the actual price of electricity right now. And it’s cheaper in all the other provinces were the majority of people live (BC, QC, AB). Do the math with actual rates in these provinces and get back to us. A safe estimate is $2-2.5 per 100km in the major provinces but much lower if charge at cheapest times. You say 22KW gets you 100km in a Leaf. If we use your hypothetical .25/KW price, that’s $5.5 per 100 KM. A model S will have about the same efficiency as a Leaf, model 3 higher. Which Honda Civic travels 100km with 4.5 liters ($5.5 dollar worth @ $1.2 ) of gas?? The lowest 2019 Honda Civic gets 6.9/100km combined according to nrcan, so that would be $8.28 per 100km. If we want to use a comparable performing Civic vs a Leaf plus, Bolt, model 3 SR, it gets even worse for the Civic as those models will use more gas.

#130 NoName on 07.26.19 at 11:57 am

#125 cramar on 07.26.19 at 11:27 am

As for Musk, I am a fan of this true visionary. I wouldn’t bet against him. It seems most critics will never accomplish 10% of what he has already done.

____

Nether do worshipers/sucups.

#131 Louis on 07.26.19 at 12:00 pm

I got an Outlander PHEV last year. I got the ideal driving patern for this, most our travel is local within 15km so I’m running on the battery most of the time.

I’m saving a fortune in gaz. Went from putting 200$ gaz every month to one 40$ filling every 3 month. I’m paying around 20$ more in electricity. This like 2000$ per year saving. Over the life of the car I think I’m ahead with the hybrid.

With an hybrid you still have oil change so you don’t get the full benefit of electric.

But anyway as a society I think we need to make the shift to electric as a long term strategic move even if it’s not the most cost effective choice short term. I’m not a climate alarmist but the transistion will take many years so starting now is the right move IMHO.

#132 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.26.19 at 12:02 pm

One of the biggest problem on the planet today is traffic congestion.
Buying EVs won’t solve that problem.
Only getting people out of their cars and into public transport will.

#133 csnow on 07.26.19 at 12:02 pm

I like my electric car (2016 Leaf). If we lived in an urban area without large hills I suspect that there would be less of a need to recharge the battery from the grid. A short trip around our small town can result in a gain of 5km of range due to the speed limit and stopping/starting (the hills to/from town are what is decreasing the range). One day Google Maps will include power usage information to help plan trips. It is the newest car of our fleet and it has decreased our fuel bill without a corresponding increase in the electric bill – but you have to drive it properly.

#134 Axehead on 07.26.19 at 12:12 pm

Hydro is the solution and isn’t clean. Think of all the land flooded, the dams built and generating equipment (with fossil fuel help, of course). You’d have to flood half the world and damage ecosystems. Electric cars aren’t totally innocent.

#135 NoName on 07.26.19 at 12:32 pm

#126 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.26.19 at 11:39 am
People say: build more charging stations.
I say: where will the juice for these stations come from?
If you are short on gas, building more gas stations is not the answer.
It’s like thinking that borrowing more will get you out of debt.

___

You can do that negative yield gov bond.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/f1bc6ba0-aece-11e9-8030-530adfa879c2

#136 Ace Goodheart on 07.26.19 at 1:25 pm

Problems with electric cars:

1. Cobalt: There is a finite supply. Unless they start mining asteroids (this option is currently being discussed) there will not be enough cobalt to build all of the batteries necessary to power the kind of electric car future that our Federal government is envisioning.

2. Recycling: Large electric car batteries are very difficult to recycle when they reach the end of their service lives. As per usual with government sponsored initiatives like the “electric car drive”, the process is to push the technology first, and then seek solutions to problems afterwards. The powers that be are currently seeking out solutions to the very real problem of what to do with billions of worn out electric car batteries. These batteries are basically toxic waste.

3. Range: On a sunny day, with an ambient temperature of about 22 degrees, on a flat, smooth road surface, with no head wind, and with the electric car being loaded just so, and with a perfectly clean car body surface free of dust or dirt or any other obstructions (tree pollen, insects, leaves, whatever else falls on your car), you will get the ideal range.

In any other circumstance, you will get less range. You cannot of course tow anything with an electric car. Your range will be reduced so drastically you would barely make it down the street. You cannot carry a spare tire (too heavy, will effect the range). You cannot drive a dirty electric car (the air flow over the vehicle’s painted surfaces has to be ideal, any small obstructions and you will get reduced range – clean off all those bugs from the front of the hood). In the winter, your range is cut in half, more if you use the heater and defrost. On hot summer days, running the air conditioning can also severely reduce your range, especially if you are driving in the city. On unpaved or bumpy roads, range will be effected. Same goes for mountain driving. The electric car has to be carefully loaded. Excess weight will reduce range. Travel light.

4. Power Generation: Existing power grids in North America and Western Europe cannot handle the added burden of electric vehicle charging. And don’t even bother looking at the power grids in the rest of the world. They will all collapse under the burden of charging electric cars. There is not enough capacity. They will have to build massive amounts of new electricity generation capacity, to meet the demand that an all electric vehicle universe will put on the grid. We are talking about potentially hundreds of years worth of work, to build the kind of new generation capacity that would be required. None of us will see it, in our life times.

Electric is not really the way of the future. I am very interested in hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, which do appear to be a solution to the problem of fossil fuel burning vehicles, however this technology is in its infancy.

#137 miketheengineer on 07.26.19 at 1:32 pm

Garth et al:

After working in the automotive parts supply industry for 20 years and 2 years at an OEM as a design release engineer…..personally, I would never purchase an electric vehicle. The OEM’s have a hard enough time making a good gas powered vehicle…and if you drive a car like I do, purchase it new or nearly new and drive it until it dies….EV’s may cost more in the long run for maintenance…then there is the insurance cost and replacement parts for EV vehicle. If I some bozo hits my car, and you have a low production volume EV, those parts will be a premium to regular parts…and maybe hard to source.

Believe me, I would love to own a EV, but I like gasoline powered vehicles more, and I don’t think EV are the right choice in Canada. If I had the money, I would own a Ford F250 or 350 with diesel engine or gas engine….quad cab, with extra gas tank…etc.

But I don’t have the cash, so I drive a Corolla and a Civic in our household….both are amazing vehicles, price is o.k., gas mileage is o.k…and both are made in Canada.

#138 Ace Goodheart on 07.26.19 at 1:39 pm

There’s an interesting reason why TESLA is so intent on building their electric cars in China.

China currently controls over 60% of the world’s cobalt supply, most of which is located in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (Central Africa, used to be led by a dude who liked to feed his enemies to his pet tigers).

Musk is aware that his cobalt supplies are drying up. By building in China, he can obtain Chinese cobalt and build batteries. He can then ship those batteries back Stateside and install them in Teslas built in North America.

#139 NoName on 07.26.19 at 2:37 pm

#137 Ace Goodheart on 07.26.19 at 1:39 pm
There’s an interesting reason why TESLA is so intent on building their electric cars in China.

China currently controls over 60% of the world’s cobalt supply, most of which is located in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (Central Africa, used to be led by a dude who liked to feed his enemies to his pet tigers).

Musk is aware that his cobalt supplies are drying up. By building in China, he can obtain Chinese cobalt and build batteries. He can then ship those batteries back Stateside and install them in Teslas built in North America

—-

Exactly, blood batteries!

One other reason dude went there is because China is bringing online so many electric powerplants (coal mainly) every year.

Last year and this year they will bring online what is present us production. (each year, not combined)

#140 James on 07.26.19 at 3:44 pm

#138 NoName on 07.26.19 at 2:37 pm

#137 Ace Goodheart on 07.26.19 at 1:39 pm
There’s an interesting reason why TESLA is so intent on building their electric cars in China.

China currently controls over 60% of the world’s cobalt supply, most of which is located in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (Central Africa, used to be led by a dude who liked to feed his enemies to his pet tigers).

Musk is aware that his cobalt supplies are drying up. By building in China, he can obtain Chinese cobalt and build batteries. He can then ship those batteries back Stateside and install them in Teslas built in North America

—-

Exactly, blood batteries!

One other reason dude went there is because China is bringing online so many electric powerplants (coal mainly) every year.

Last year and this year they will bring online what is present us production. (each year, not combined)
____________________________________________
They may be able to evade the CMRT reporting as well in China.

#141 Exurban on 07.26.19 at 4:14 pm

Hey Drinkdrivedance,

BC Hydro imports a considerable amount of coal-generated electricity from Alberta. It helps power the Lower Mainland at night, when water builds up behind the dams. The Teslas in Kitsilano that charge overnight are, literally, coal-powered cars. Read all about it:

The dirty little secret of importing power

#142 IHCTD9 on 07.26.19 at 4:45 pm

#129 Al on 07.26.19 at 11:55 am
“The pre-subsidy cost of electricity in Ontario was $0.25 for a 1000 watts tax in. So 1.50 will buy you about 6 kw.”

No it wasn’t, at least not in Ottawa. Unless youre talking about peak hours or are factoring the sunk cost portion of the service youd have to pay for anyways. That’s all moot as that’s not the actual price of electricity right now. And it’s cheaper in all the other provinces were the majority of people live (BC, QC, AB). Do the math with actual rates in these provinces and get back to us. A safe estimate is $2-2.5 per 100km in the major provinces but much lower if charge at cheapest times. You say 22KW gets you 100km in a Leaf. If we use your hypothetical .25/KW price, that’s $5.5 per 100 KM. A model S will have about the same efficiency as a Leaf, model 3 higher. Which Honda Civic travels 100km with 4.5 liters ($5.5 dollar worth @ $1.2 ) of gas?? The lowest 2019 Honda Civic gets 6.9/100km combined according to nrcan, so that would be $8.28 per 100km. If we want to use a comparable performing Civic vs a Leaf plus, Bolt, model 3 SR, it gets even worse for the Civic as those models will use more gas.

——

I live rurally where density is low, so delivery charges were/are higher. You may recall that it was the outcry from northern residents who were shelling out 4-500.00/month for hydro which got Wynne to subsidize hydro by accumulating debt. My cost was .25 right off my bill with a small deviation from month to month – all in, including taxes

Only a fool would buy an EV based on current hydro rates knowing full well in a couple years Wynne’s subsidy ends, and from there the increases will grow sharply to include the accumulation of debt piled up during the Libs 5 year subsidy period. I’d want to know what my future hydro costs are, not what hydro cost years ago when I drove a regular car.

I read one article that claimed peak will increase to ~.20 kWh – that’s just the hydro cost alone. That would probably translate into .33-.34 kWh bottom line all in cost where I live. This is the math you want to do – there’s no way hydro is ever going to be cheap in this province without subsidization. The subsidy runs 5 years, then it’s business as usual again.

FWIW, there are plenty of regular and hybrid cars that get sub 5.0/100 km.

#143 TheDood on 07.26.19 at 6:20 pm

#88 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.25.19 at 11:11 pm
#118 TheDood on 07.25.19 at 5:09 pm
#59 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.25.19 at 12:45 am
Just found this great deal on a decent house in a decent neighborhood in Richmond.
Looks like a steal for 990k.
Or is the new reality?
https://www.ovlix.com/property/2soYgj-8971-Wagner-Drive-Richmond-BC-V7A4N2
__________________________

Wow! What a steal!!! LOL!

More like…..what a dump! If that’s worth a million to you…..whatever makes you happy!
——————
Obviously, you’re living under a rock and don’t know that RE in Richmond is among the most expensive in Canada.
The lot alone is worth about 1.5 mill.
Context, man, context.
_______________________________

I live in White Rock. It’s only worth that much because there are so many dummies willing to over pay. Stop being one of them.

#144 Al on 07.26.19 at 11:57 pm

“FWIW, there are plenty of regular and hybrid cars that get sub 5.0/100 km.”.

Hybrid electric yes, gas or diesel no, not even close. The mirage is the most fuel efficient 2019 vehicle and gets 6.4l/100km. The cruze diesel is second at 6.6/100km. A far cry from below 5/100km. Those cars also suck compared to something like a Bolt. But they cost less (not surprisingly). Some hybrids will get below 5l/100km, but they cost more, but a good choice depending on your location and driving habits.

#145 Do Your Research Please Garth on 07.27.19 at 12:57 am

@IHCTD9

Hydro doesn’t cost $0.25 per kWh in Ontario for residential customers. Your method of dividing your total bill amount by your total kWh to determine the $/kWh price is flawed.

Did you know that your residential bill has a fixed delivery charge of around $25 (this amount varies depending on who your utility is)? This charge stays the same no matter how many kWh you consume, so it doesn’t make sense to include it in your $/kWh calculations.

Even if you used 0 kWh, you’d still pay this $25 delivery charge. Likewise, if you consume a lot more kWh to charge your EV, this $25 delivery charge doesn’t change.

(Not all of the delivery charges on your bill are fixed though).

With all that said, if you removed the fixed costs from your total billing amount, you’d likely find you’re paying $0.1 to $0.15 per kWh (depending on how much electricity you’re using on-peak vs. off-peak).

The rest of your math is correct, it is just the $0.25 per kWh amount that is wrong. If you use $0.15 per kWh, the Leaf would still be $3.15 per 100 km. That is still less than half that of an ice vehicle, which is around $8-9 per 100 km.

Lastly, the Wynne Fair Hydro Plan was cancelled by the PCs “Cleaning Up the Hydro Mess” Act, but they introduced a 25% rate cut instead which is roughly the same reduction. This could of course go away in the future, but I doubt it will happen before the next election.