The choices

Yes, it’s Debt Week here at GreaterFool, making it tough to control the enthusiasm. But debt’s a big part of Canadian life now. We owe a ton. We save little. What could possibly go wrong?

Here’s another point of comparison with the US, the country most like ours. If you’re a moister thinking about snagging a condo, or have spawn facing the same decision, it’s useful to know if you’re borrowing just enough to become an owner, or so much that you turn into a slave.

First, the official limits. CHMC is the debt cop in Canada, and restricts debt service ratios to 35% for GDS and 42% for TDS. Huh? Whazzat mean?

The Gross Debt Service ratio (GDS) is the percentage of income needed to pay housing costs – the mortgage, property tax, heat and half the condo/strata fees. The Total Debt Service ratio (TDS) is the portion of income needed to pay the GDS stuff, plus credit cards and car payments (or other regular monthly obligations). So, for a young woman earning $70,000, the TDS would max out at about $3,000 a month. That would put the maximum mortgage payment at about $1,600, on a loan of just over $300,000. So with a 20% down payment, that equals a purchase price of $380,000.

But the average condo in Toronto goes for $642,891. In Van the price is $664,200.

You can see the problem. Prices are still too high. The market has only stated to adjust. And this is why more people are moving to Edmonton, Windsor, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax.

In the States, where house lust is so 2005, young buyers have been getting more and more conservative. An overwhelming majority of first-timers between the ages of 22 and 38 are spending less than 30% on housing costs. In fact, the most recent number was 76% – that’s a huge increase from 65% who spent that little a decade ago.

Why are three-quarters of US moisters buying with such a low debt service ratio?

First, houses cost less. The median home value in Chicago (population 3 million) is US$230,000, for example. But it also seems American Millennials are acutely aware that real estate can be a wealth trap, having watched their parents get whacked by the meltdown more than a decade ago.

So the number of young buyers staying under the 30% income-to-housing bar has jumped from just over half back in 2006 (the boom) to the close-to-80% mark now. That’s remarkable, considering the growth in the economy and jobs over the intervening years of recovery. In fact the median ratio for Mills sits about 16%. Which makes you wonder what we’re doing to our own moister generation at 32% or 44%. Will they ever get out of hock?

Not if they stay in the GTA or the LM, apparently. Seems Canada is unique in the world for not only the biggest family debt, but also the priciest suburbs.

A study by Finder.com shows there’s little escape from suffocating housing costs even when you flee the 416 or downtown Vancouver. By opting for a l-o-n-g and stressful, carbon-spewing commute, buyers can find accommodation for about 20% less than in the urban core. Big deal. That compares to a 55% break for heading to the burbs in NYC, or a 45% drop in prices in suburban London. In fact around the world people save an average of 41% by living in the outskirts of major cities – or twice the benefit gained here.

Conclusions:

(a) You might as well live in the city, if that’s what you really want. Just don’t whine about no big backyard, or the lack of a two-acre Home Depot store, or
(b) Move. The suburban discount in Halifax is a huge 51%. In Ottawa it’s 43% and Calgary close to 40%.

Take Mississauga as an example. The average detached property cost is $925,600, vs $1.38 million in the city. The distance to downtown Toronto is about 27 km. The average commute time (by car) during rush hour is 40 minutes. That’s 80 minutes a day or almost most seven hours a week. (By public transit, the trip takes an hour each way from Square One to Union Station.) The question’s simple: what’s your time worth?

Life is all about choices. Make them carefully. Most fail.

146 comments ↓

#1 Rexx Rock on 06.11.19 at 4:30 pm

Its all about wages.In GTA and the Lower Mainland wages are alot higher in these two cities than the USA.Another thing ,healthcare is free.Millienals will flock to these cities including Victoria because the abundant of high paying jobs.If theres a recession then there might be some trouble.But for now its all sunshine and buterflies!The housing market is like the stock market it keeps going up with small pullbacks.

#2 active on 06.11.19 at 4:30 pm

yep, all about choices….love living downtown Van and walking 10 minutes to work! lunch at home, everyday. sucka’s!

#3 Captain Uppa on 06.11.19 at 4:32 pm

Commuting downtown on TTC from Etobicoke can be just as stressful and nearly as long during rush hours. You factor in many TTC disruptions and it’s all relative.

Having said that, I am fortunate enough to work hours to dodge prime time both in morning and afternoon/evening. If I worked downtown and had regular hours, I would just live in the city.

One more thing; if you commuted two hours less a week, where are people really doing with that time anyways? Answer: mostly nothing.

Unless you are stuck in total rush hour gridlock day in and day out, suburban commuting as torture is often highly over-exaggerated.

#4 Brett in Calgary on 06.11.19 at 4:32 pm

Life is all about choices. Make them carefully. Most fail.
———————————————————–
Yes most do.

#5 Rick Fast on 06.11.19 at 4:33 pm

We are going to see a big correction in housing in the GTA! 30-40% correction in the next 2 years especially when the recession hits, maybe even more! Audi’s will be on firesale and those real estate agents lurking on here are in denial, because they have had almost no sales this year! LOL

#6 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.11.19 at 4:36 pm

“The question’s simple: what’s your time worth?”

*****
Apparently very little when I answer Howard and Ponzies retorts……

#7 Yukon Elvis on 06.11.19 at 4:41 pm

First the oil industry in Alberta goes into the tank. Now the lumber industry in BC is tanking. Mills closing or curtailing. Lots of good paying jobs going away. Getting ugly out there.

#8 Oakville Rocks! on 06.11.19 at 4:46 pm

Garth, there are good jobs in the suburbs too.

Our small business has been in Burlington for 30 years. There are two pharmaceutical companies and a web development business in the neighbourhood, employing young and old. We are walking distance from a GO station which allows people from Toronto or adjoining suburbs to commute here and avoid the QEW. Mississauga has countless head offices and bank finance /support centres. Not everyone who lives in the suburbs is choosing to commute. Funny, as my one time MP and champion of small business I would think you would remember that there are houses and jobs here. Maybe this does not suit your narrative.

Most in the burbs commute. That’s the narrative. – Garth

#9 MF on 06.11.19 at 4:49 pm

The US has more cities for people to move to. How about comparing Manhattan real estate to the rest of the US? That’s what a comparison of Toronto to the rest of Canada is similar to.

I’m on a few other American forums. Same complaints about the main cities: LA, New York. Too expensive, too liberal. Yet, if they can afford to, that’s where people want to move to.

“. And this is why more people are moving to Edmonton, Windsor, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax.”

-GTA population is increasing far faster than the trickle of people leaving.

MF

Follow the herd. Good thinking. You’re a real rebel. – Garth

#10 Catalyst on 06.11.19 at 4:56 pm

A couple things to balance your post:

Alot of commutes downtown can be 20-40 mins due to congestion and poor transit structure.

Mississauga condo about 400k downtown condo about 650k so savings of about 38%.

You assume 1 income for ratios when it is often 2.

Other thoughts: prices of course are insane and downtown Toronto right now is on fire still. Bidding wars and rising prices at least in the sub 1 mil category.

GDS/TDS are totally in adequate ratios as they dont take net pay (after tax) and therefore give too much lending. 50% of after tax income is not uncommon nowadays.

#11 -=jonky=- on 06.11.19 at 5:04 pm

@Uppa
One more thing; if you commuted two hours less a week, where are people really doing with that time anyways? Answer: mostly nothing.

Unless you are stuck in total rush hour gridlock day in and day out, suburban commuting as torture is often highly over-exaggerated

It is the difference between your kid making the 6pm soccer practice, and not. Single, no kids? listen to an audiobook. Have kids in a $5/min overage fee daycare, stress, stress. Happy to have left my 1:15 commute (centenial park to queens park) behind when we left GTA…its been 4 years and we still rush the kids into the car (go! go! go!) to get them to their events….and we arrive comfortable 15-30 minutes early. It is so weird not having to rush rush rush everywhere.

#12 jerry on 06.11.19 at 5:04 pm

“In GTA and the Lower Mainland wages are alot higher in these two cities than the USA.Another thing ,healthcare is free.”

lol. Are we talking about the same lower mainland and Victoria where average family incomes are 90k and homes a million dollars with debt to income ratios the highest in North America

#13 Re-Cowtown on 06.11.19 at 5:10 pm

Chicago property taxes on a $250,000 house is around $6,940/yr.

https://smartasset.com/taxes/illinois-property-tax-calculator#Smd8qcgQxG

I read somewhere that every dollar goes to civil service pensions. Not roads, not schools, not hospitals, not garbage pick up, not sewer, not water, but civil service pensions.

You want to see the future with Trudeau? Look to Chicago.

#14 Wally Axlesmith on 06.11.19 at 5:16 pm

“And this is why more people are moving to Edmonton, Windsor, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax.” ..and not Winnipeg and Regina? I guess when things get really bad the latter two cities will be where the peeps move to.

#15 Dave on 06.11.19 at 5:16 pm

CMHC supports debt service of 39% GDS and 44% TDS, which means you can qualify for a bit more, but your comments are still valid.

#16 Where's The Money Being Paid To Greedeau, (OnTheTake)? on 06.11.19 at 5:17 pm

Since Garth won’t let me comment on thesse, I’ll just give you the news stories my comment came from:
Hint it has something to do with politicians

https://globalnews.ca/news/5346848/alleged-gang-kingpin-liberal-mp-law-firm-launder-money-bc/

https://globalnews.ca/news/5321035/canada-legal-system-helped-chinese-gangster-avoid-deportation/

https://globalnews.ca/news/5277136/alleged-gangster-bc-public-inquiry-money-laundering/

#17 Notagreaterfool on 06.11.19 at 5:20 pm

https://globalnews.ca/news/5346848/alleged-gang-kingpin-liberal-mp-law-firm-launder-money-bc/

This nonsense must stop. Tax revenues are missed and. That pushes to onus to (now poor) middle class. It also drubbed house prices up.

#18 mike from mtl on 06.11.19 at 5:24 pm

#1 Rexx Rock on 06.11.19 at 4:30 pm
Its all about wages.In GTA and the Lower Mainland wages are alot higher in these two cities than the USA.Another thing ,healthcare is free.Millienals will flock to these cities including Victoria because the abundant of high paying jobs…
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Exactly, this is exactly why. The US is not exactly comparable in terms of job market, they have loads of second and third tier cities that have actual white collar jobs. Australia is most like us, primary industry is extraction/export (to China), two major cities where everything happens and a whole load of worthless land (desert in their case). Hence why everybody cramming into two places frighting with each other over jobs and housing is the same result.

Not to mention gov policy clearly encouraging ‘home ownership’ and ancillary services.

#19 Freedom First on 06.11.19 at 5:35 pm

Not only is my time of extreme value, everything to do with my overall wellbeing, ease, and comfort is priceless. It is wonderful and spectacular to be me. I have indeed been blessed!

Humbly,

Freedom First.

#20 Jay on 06.11.19 at 5:36 pm

Years ago I drove an hour commute each way, for about a year, while living in Calgary. I swore to myself NEVER AGAIN!! Nothing more soul sucking after a long day at work than getting stuck in gridlock traffic. Now living in Van, and love living close to work. It’s a great way to wake up in the morning & wind down at the end of the day. No car, no debt, no stress. Guaranteed 40 mins of exercise every day. I’ve lost 15lbs, without even trying, due to my daily “commute”. If I need wheels for errands, Car-2-Go, cheap & convenient.

My investment account loves the walking lifestyle too, feels great to watch that balance go up every month, especially after seeing a few layoffs at work over the past few months. Folks out in the ‘burbs with mortgage & car payments start sweating big time when those occasional lay offs happen. It might not be for everyone, but if you have the discipline to invest while renting vs. mortgage & commuting, it’s a great lifestyle. Yes, indeed, life is all about choices.

#21 Man ... on 06.11.19 at 5:39 pm

I would hate to be commuting out here in the LM nowadays. It was 50% of the reason I decided to retire 4 years ago. Slow, stressful, and expensive. I still remember a co-worker retiring about 15 years ago for the very same reason. His commute … Sumas prairie – New Westminster. One of the best decisions we ever made.

#22 T on 06.11.19 at 5:43 pm

#9 MF on 06.11.19 at 4:49 pm

“. And this is why more people are moving to Edmonton, Windsor, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax.”

-GTA population is increasing far faster than the trickle of people leaving.

MF

Follow the herd. Good thinking. You’re a real rebel. – Garth

——–

Lol! A rebel without a clue.

MF – you should also compare incomes in these cities. It makes Toronto look like the joke it has become. And now, since the developments of last night, Toronto also looks like it’s full of classless arrogance. What a great place. If the cost of living doesn’t get you, the people surrounding you will – and cheer and laugh at you while you fail in order to make themselves feel good.

Great place! So glad I left.

#23 Eaglebay on 06.11.19 at 5:46 pm

#9 MF on 06.11.19 at 4:49 pm
The US has more cities for people to move to. How about comparing Manhattan real estate to the rest of the US?

Follow the herd. Good thinking. You’re a real rebel. – Garth

Love your answer.

#24 Bob Dog on 06.11.19 at 5:51 pm

Amazon is about to migrate another 3000 people from around the globe to downtown Vancouver to work in the new facility vacated by Canada Post. Microshaft has already done this and soon Google will follow. These jobs pay more than enough to live here.

Canadians need to understand that in the eyes of your MPs, you are all just disposable human beings easily replaced by highly educated individuals willing and able to pay whatever it takes to live here. Get used to living further away from the cities your parents built.

Thats progress I guess. Globalization Rocks!

#25 Shawn allen on 06.11.19 at 5:54 pm

I would choose toll roads

Transcanada through BC today around golden has hours of stopped traffic sharing one lane.

If it takes a toll road to pay for twinning, I am in.

Ontario is just as bad.

#26 Ronaldo on 06.11.19 at 6:03 pm

@Uppa
One more thing; if you commuted two hours less a week, where are people really doing with that time anyways? Answer: mostly nothing.
——————————————————————
Heck, some people spend a lot more time on this blog each day.

#27 dakkie on 06.11.19 at 6:12 pm

Reality Checking Canada’s latest employment numbers

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/reality-checking-canadas-latest-employment-numbers/

#28 valleyranter on 06.11.19 at 6:24 pm

Interesting. Was discussing this just the other day with friends on FB. Was told parts of Jersey City were not the safest to live in. I made a comparison in prices of low 100’s U.S. there vs. low 700’s CAD in Whalley. Must be something in the water on the Wet Coast. Although, there does seem to be a pileup of listings in Hope in the 500’s. Harbinger of the Valley ready to dump on R/E?

#29 Captain Uppa on 06.11.19 at 6:27 pm

>>
#11 -=jonky=- on 06.11.19 at 5:04 pm
@Uppa
One more thing; if you commuted two hours less a week, where are people really doing with that time anyways? Answer: mostly nothing.

Unless you are stuck in total rush hour gridlock day in and day out, suburban commuting as torture is often highly over-exaggerated

It is the difference between your kid making the 6pm soccer practice, and not. Single, no kids? listen to an audiobook. Have kids in a $5/min overage fee daycare, stress, stress. Happy to have left my 1:15 commute (centenial park to queens park) behind when we left GTA…its been 4 years and we still rush the kids into the car (go! go! go!) to get them to their events….and we arrive comfortable 15-30 minutes early. It is so weird not having to rush rush rush everywhere. >>

Perhaps, but I think you’re splitting hairs. What you seem to be describing more is late working hours as opposed to commuting hours. Most people who work in city cores work until 5 or 6. So done and 5 and taking your kid for soccer at 6 would be very rush rush any way you slice it.

As for audiobook, you can do that on the train or in your car on the way home. I love listening to podcasts on my commute home.

I might be speaking from a privileged spot, however. I start early which means I leave work early. So though my commute is 35 mins each way, I never feel rushed and can make all obligations for my children.

#30 Long-Time Lurker on 06.11.19 at 6:34 pm

>Here’s another X-File for you, Smokey. Look up Karl Wolf, US Air Force, deceased.

https://phys.org/news/2019-06-mass-anomaly-moon-largest-crater.html

JUNE 10, 2019

Mass anomaly detected under the moon’s largest crater
by Baylor University

A mysterious large mass of material has been discovered beneath the largest crater in our solar system—the Moon’s South Pole-Aitken basin—and may contain metal from the asteroid that crashed into the Moon and formed the crater, according to a Baylor University study.

“Imagine taking a pile of metal five times larger than the Big Island of Hawaii and burying it underground. That’s roughly how much unexpected mass we detected,” said lead author Peter B. James, Ph.D., assistant professor of planetary geophysics in Baylor’s College of Arts & Sciences.

The crater itself is oval-shaped, as wide as 2,000 kilometers—roughly the distance between Waco, Texas, and Washington, D.C.—and several miles deep. Despite its size, it cannot be seen from Earth because it is on the far side of the Moon….

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/2019GL082252

Geophysical Research Letters banner
Research Letter
Deep Structure of the Lunar South Pole‐Aitken Basin

Peter B. James David E. Smith Paul K. Byrne Jordan D. Kendall H. Jay Melosh Maria T. Zuber

First published: 05 April 2019

https://doi.org/10.1029/2019GL082252

#31 Long-Time Lurker on 06.11.19 at 6:35 pm

https://www.exopolitics.org/apollo-11-photo-reveals-base-on-far-side-of-moon/

Apollo 11 photo reveals base on far side of moon

WRITTEN BY DR MICHAEL SALLA ON JULY 7, 2013. POSTED IN EXOPOLITICS RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

https://archive.org/details/AS11-41-6155

A photo from the online archive of the Apollo 11 mission reveals what appears to be a base on the far side of the moon. The object appears to be on the moon’s surface and is well illuminated. It is symmetrical with a long shaft separated at each end by a small sphere with another in the center. The spheres appear to be living quarters with connecting corridors. The object was recently discovered by an observer and announced today on UFO Sightings Daily.

The photo, AS11-41-6155, is significant since whistleblowers have claimed that NASA regularly scrubs or destroys photos with any evidence of alien life or artificial structures. The Apollo 11 photo does not appear to have been digitally altered in any way, and may be stunning visual evidence of alien life on the far side of the moon….

#32 Long-Time Lurker on 06.11.19 at 6:35 pm

I thought some big stock market shocks would come this month of June 2019. Let’s see if I’m right.

#33 MF on 06.11.19 at 6:41 pm

Follow the herd. Good thinking. You’re a real rebel. – Garth

-Why is urbanization accelerating?

Being a “rebel” has about as much to do with it as real estate agents have with transparency.

MF

#34 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 06.11.19 at 6:47 pm

Free yourselves. Abandon the GTA forever. It is a sewer of self-indulgent bs with no hope for the future, filled with wannabe violent thugs and losers of all kinds.

https://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2019/06/warriors-fans-sucker-punched-toronto-streets-last-night/

#35 Penny Henny on 06.11.19 at 6:52 pm

Take Mississauga as an example. The average detached property cost is $925,600, vs $1.38 million in the city. The distance to downtown Toronto is about 27 km.-Garth
//////////////////

Why for dog’s sake do I always see these comparisons.
There are more jobs in the 905 then the 416 by FAR!!!

#36 Dave on 06.11.19 at 6:57 pm

The govt, regulators and bankers have known about canadian debt for years. Why is canadian debt the highest in the world? Why werent more measures put in place, hmmm there is only 5 banks in Canada. Cant be that hard to coordinate.

Now the masses are royally screwed in debt – freedom but Slaves for life to their debt.

The walls are closing in…gas prices, groceries, going out to a restaurant are all crazy expensive. Something has got to give in a big way.

#37 MF on 06.11.19 at 7:05 pm

#22 T on 06.11.19 at 5:43 pm

“Toronto also looks like it’s full of classless arrogance. What a great place. If the cost of living doesn’t get you, the people surrounding you will ”

-Yeah and Mark Stevens punching Kyle Lowry must mean everyone in Oakland is an aggressive brute right?

Ah no.

In my Toronto I see the opposite of what you describe: humility, warmth and openness. Much more than tons of other cities of the same size.

Remember, people often were experience the mirror image of themselves in others. The Halo Effect, a well documented psychological phenomenon.

BTW weren’t you the guy who recently hurled an insult my way in a previous post?

MF

#38 Flop... on 06.11.19 at 7:21 pm

Damn, I’m slipping.

Crowdie just reminded me to update my Troll Leaderboard.

I think in 2018 I had the top three as…

1) Mark, (real, fake, whatever.)

2) Smoking Man ( might have peaked)

3)Scared Canadian Millennial. (who?)

2019 version, we have some fresh meat.

1) Ponzi (been at it for a while but has taken it to the elite level)

2) Howard (the heir apparent)

3) MF (with a bullet)

4) honourable mention, 65 other guys( keep working at it, takes practice for some folks)…

M44BC

#39 Great Full on 06.11.19 at 7:21 pm

I live downtown Vancouver.
I have no debt, and a small savings.
I pay off my credit card every week.
I rent my apartment and have a view of English Bay.
I’m self employed in the health care sector.
I walk to work every day.
I work 4 days per week.
I have a fulfilling relationship and wonderful friends.
I get a lot of exercise, and eat well.
I sometimes eat junk food.
I live within my means.
I have no pension and may have to work until I die, but that’s ok.
I read this blog on occasion and can’t believe how many angry people there are out there.
I’m sad that we’ve choked the world with plastic.
I believe climate change is man made.
I hate billionaires and think they should all get the guillotine and their wealth should be redistributed.
I’m happy (other than the guillotine fantasy, but who’s perfect?)
Happy to live in this beautiful city, and happy to be a Canadian.

#40 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.11.19 at 7:23 pm

@#30 &31 Love you Long Time Lurker

The Moon “anomaly’s” are easily explained….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py_IndUbcxc

#41 Flop... on 06.11.19 at 7:29 pm

“Here’s another point of comparison with the US, the country most like ours.”- Thor Turner.

The fridge magnet I spied at the riverfront market in Calgary stated otherwise.

Canada. Just like Australia, except bloody freezing…

M44BC

#42 Dolce Vita on 06.11.19 at 7:34 pm

“We owe a ton. We save little. What could possibly go wrong?”

Nothing.

If you believe the lame reasons Commented so far for living in expensive Cdn. downtown’s that have nothing to offer in lifestyle.

People, you’re living in CONCRETE, GLASS, STEEL AND ASPHALT ANTHILLS falling over each other in every direction you turn, every step you take. Take a step back and see yourselves for what you are really living in and so piss proud of…

Anthill #1, water + a hypodermic needle:

https://i.imgur.com/UvwXCqS.jpg

Anthill #2, water + a slope:

https://i.imgur.com/CMMyS8a.jpg

…they’re still concrete, glass, steel, asphalt anthills will all the personality of a gnat and Provincial offerings (wow, you have a restaurant downstairs and a popular bar next door, lucky, only person on Planet Earth, you).

At least this rather flat terrazzo cobblestone + water anthill (due to the +30 MM tourists that trample over her every year) has more than 1 reason to be piss proud and with enough personality for a dozen Anthill #1’s and #2’s combined:

https://i.imgur.com/vScmxrz.jpg

…La Serenissima.

———————————————-

Garth is correct.

Ciao d[*]’Italia.

*Still low 30’s but thanks to Jeff Bezos and Amazon.it I can now make Margarita’s & Cuba Libre’s to lessen the “pain”.

#43 Flop... on 06.11.19 at 7:45 pm

“Take Mississauga as an example. The average detached property cost is $925,600, vs $1.38 million in the city. The distance to downtown Toronto is about 27 km.”- Thor Turner.

//////////////

I know it’s not like for like but I’ve been banging this drum for a while now.

I live 7 kilometres from downtown.

Don’t mean that much to me, I only go down once or twice a year, my vision is better without pepper spray in it according to my optometrist.

I can get to most places in Vancouver proper in under 20 minutes.

You can now get a starter home in my hood for under 900k

People are buying houses that still need work done to them for over a million out in Surrey and beyond.

I work with guys that commute from Abbotsford and Mission.

Work 12 hrs, get paid for 8.

“But I’ve got some grass.” they say.

You bet you’ve got some grass buddy.

You even rolled it up and smoked it…

M44BC

#44 Dolce Vita on 06.11.19 at 7:46 pm

“We owe a ton. We save little. What could possibly go wrong?”

Nothing.

If you believe the lame reasons Commented so far for living in expensive Cdn. downtown’s that have nothing to offer in lifestyle.

People, you’re living in CONCRETE, GLASS, STEEL AND ASPHALT ANTHILLS falling over each other in every direction you turn, every step you take. Take a step back and see yourselves for what you are really living in and so piss proud of…

Anthill #1, water + a hypodermic needle:

https://i.imgur.com/UvwXCqS.jpg

Anthill #2, water + a slope:

https://i.imgur.com/CMMyS8a.jpg

…they’re still concrete, glass, steel, asphalt anthills with all the personality of a gnat and Provincial offerings (wow, you have a restaurant downstairs and a popular bar next door, lucky, only person on Planet Earth, you…yes, the $642K to 646K was well worth it).

At least this rather flat terrazzo cobblestone + water Anthill (due to the +30 MM tourists that trample over her every year) has more than 1 reason to be piss proud and with enough personality for a dozen Anthill #1’s and #2’s combined:

https://i.imgur.com/vScmxrz.jpg

…La Serenissima.

———————————————-

Garth is correct. Wake up. Smell the caffè macchiato.

Ciao d[*]’Italia.

*Still low 30’s but thanks to Jeff Bezos and Amazon.it I can now make Margarita’s & Cuba Libre’s to lessen the “pain”.

#45 Remembrancer on 06.11.19 at 7:48 pm

#13 Re-Cowtown on 06.11.19 at 5:10 pm
I read somewhere that every dollar goes to civil service pensions. Not roads, not schools, not hospitals, not garbage pick up, not sewer, not water, but civil service pensions.
—————————————————————
The Windy City has its problems, but 100% of the budget going to civil service pensions is not one of them. Dude, get a clue, its 2019 and this BS you’re spewing is so easy to debunk…

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/obm/supp_info/2018Budget/2018_Budget_Overview.pdf

For the hard of reading, in 2018, it was proposed about 11% of the budget for pensions (page 33)…

#46 Vision on 06.11.19 at 7:54 pm

The commute distance from Yonge and Finch is 26 km ( this is Toronto) to downtown( city hall) By Car, it is about 50- 60 minutes. ( I know because I have done it and cursed every minute.)There is no fast route. By train, it’s long and tedious. ( I have done it as well)
Heaven knows how long it is from Markham and
Sheppard. (Toronto again). Mississauga downtown is the same distance and faster by car to Downtown Toronto than those locations previously mentioned .
If you take the Go, it is even faster than taking the Subway at Yonge and Finch to downtown.
On weekends, I can be downtown in less than 20 minutes by car from my home in Mississauga. Taking the Go train to downtown, on the Lakeshore route is easy and comfortable.
Many parts of Toronto take forever to get downtown. I used to live at Kipling and Steeles and it took over and hour plus plus to go downtown by bus.
So living in many parts of Toronto is no big deal. Transit is terrible. Commute is terrible and getting worse.
I drive around many parts of Toronto as part of my job. Yes, there are nice areas, but there are many “ ghetto “ areas as well. I often wonder why people would spend the money on some of those places. Travelling within Toronto is not very easy. If you want to go grocery shopping, etc, it can be a nightmare.Travelling in Mississauga by car or Transit is easy peasy!
If you want to call Toronto world class, you better fix the transit.
But right now, I do not think it warrants these inflated home prices. ( I was born in Toronto, but am glad to have left)

#47 espressobob on 06.11.19 at 8:10 pm

I rent in Toronto with a view of the lake. Nice unit with all the local amenities anyone could wish for. Been investing for decades and enjoy a portfolio that will allow a stress free life style for the rest of my days.

Some however insist on buying a pigeon coup in the sky for reasons I will never understand. Not sure if it’s a status thing or an investment choice? Taking on a load of debt like this is pure madness.

Being a part of the rat race herd doesn’t sound like fun to me. Few others who think outside the box enjoy life with less headache.

Golfing tomorrow all day, It’s a rough life but some of us have to endure it.

#48 Debtslavecreator on 06.11.19 at 8:13 pm

39-you are very angry
I may not care for billionaires either but no one deserves to be murdered and have all their money stolen
No one
What did they do to you ?
Most own companies that have thousands of employees
How many T4 slips have you created ?
You don’t contribute to the tax base of the country and I have the highest respect for our health care workers
Private sector businesses of all sizes are the core of the tax base – a small number of large global corporations get the bailouts which is wrong
But billionaires that start and grow private companies are the ones indirectly paying for the health care
Go ahead – take out the billionaires and steal their assets
Former employees now unemployed as a result don’t pay taxes
And then once they are done with the billionaires guess what buddy- they’re coming after you and me

#49 IHCTD9 on 06.11.19 at 8:15 pm

#9 MF on 06.11.19 at 4:49 pm

-GTA population is increasing far faster than the trickle of people leaving.

MF
————

Yes, increasing with folks coming primarily from the 3rd world.

If we’re talking about Ontarians moving from the sticks to Toronto, it’s actually the other way around.

In fact, Toronto loses more of its domestic population to other cities within its home province than any other city in Canada.

In other words, those that have spent some time actually living in Toronto, are the folks who are bailing. Another way of saying it: Toronto has issues retaining its domestic population.

For some crazy reason, the same thing is happening in Vancouver…

The bulk of said bailers are Millennials (306% increase), and it’s not too hard to figure out why.

#50 Keith on 06.11.19 at 8:16 pm

Downtown living, if you can swing it is worth it – for those who love the urban lifestyle. If you like rural Canada, you can buy property cheap and hunt and fish and ski and golf your brains out. More power to you, it’s not for me.

The city offers so much cheap and free recreation. There are art galleries and museums – get a membership, costs you next to nothing or take advantage of pay what you can deals. Chock a block with restaurants, in Vancouver there are deals on everything – breakfast for 2.99, a burger on the street for 2.75, happy hour specials all over the place.

Parks are free, there are festivals all summer long, and legal live venues where the musicians don’t get paid enough to starve on. There are free outdoor movies all over the place all summer long, and free movies at libraries all over town all year long. The VSO does a couple of free concerts a year. The jazz festival has days of free concerts. The much decried diversity offers ethnic festivals, food and restaurants from the four corners of the world.

It’s up to you to make the most of the opportunities wherever you live. A little research, a little effort and you can find recreation, entertainment and dining on a budget.

#51 CJ on 06.11.19 at 8:35 pm

Proud Calgarian. Live in a great established community in a small bungalow with my family of four. 13-minute commute to work and 15 minutes to downtown. Never on Deerfoot Trail in the rat race.
Kids walk to community school.
Life is fantastic. I don’t care what houses are worth. Much more to think and talk about.

#52 TheDood on 06.11.19 at 8:40 pm

#1 Rexx Rock on 06.11.19 at 4:30 pm
Its all about wages.In GTA and the Lower Mainland wages are alot higher in these two cities than the USA.
_____________________________________

Uh, no they’re not. Wages in the USA are gobs better than here in Canada, and its not even close. Been there done that – for many years.

Wages/Salaries in the LM are among the lowest in Canada. There is no industry in BC that pays a salary aligned with the costs of living here.

#53 Ronh on 06.11.19 at 8:43 pm

We owe a ton. Speaking of which, read and get educated:

https://www.goldmoney.com/research/goldmoney-insights/drop-gold-and-the-myths-we-re-told

#54 Moh on 06.11.19 at 8:44 pm

Work from everyday the last two years. Roll out of bed at 745 and start work. Eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at home.

#55 Flop... on 06.11.19 at 8:45 pm

Coffeyville residents have cheaper mortgage payments than some data plans, plus when you turn on your taps piping hot coffee pours out.

They are known to talk a lot and in the afternoon they get the jitters…

M44BC

“Visualizing Monthly Mortgage Payments in the United States.

Cash is king in real estate, but the reality is that most home buyers will need to take out a mortgage in order to afford a house. Many properties require at least a 20 percent down payment (less than that requires private mortgage insurance), while the rest can be financed through a mortgage loan. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 63% of homeowners have a mortgage. However, the median home prices where you live determine not only how much you will need to amass as a down payment, but also what your monthly mortgage payment will be.

Our new visualization uses data from Zillow Research and the St. Louis Fed to find the metro areas with the most expensive and least expensive mortgage payments. The darker shades of pink indicate higher monthly mortgage payments, while lighter shades of pink are lower monthly mortgage payments. We have assumed a 20% down payment as well as a 30-year mortgage duration. The 4.08% average interest rate for a 30-year mortgage has been retrieved from FRED on 04/04/19. No taxes or insurance payment is included in our analysis. To see how we arrived at our calculations, you can view our spreadsheet here.

Top 5 Metros With the Most Expensive Mortgage Payments

1. San Jose, CA – $4,008
2. San Francisco, CA – $2,994
3. Vineyard Haven, MA – $2,963
4. Santa Cruz, CA – $2,940
5. Edwards, CO – $2,488

Bottom 5 Metros With the Least Expensive Mortgage Payments

1. Coffeyville, KS – $205
2. Newport, TN – $259
3. Union City, TN – $283
4. Rockingham, NC – $294
5. Martin, TN – $296

Overall, mortgage payments tend to be less expensive in the South and the Midwest and most expensive in the Northeast and the West. Seven of the top ten most expensive metros are located in California, especially centered around Silicon Valley. The monthly mortgage payment in the most expensive metro, San Jose ($4,008), is about 33% higher than the second-most expensive metro, San Francisco ($2,994). The cost of a monthly mortgage in San Jose is also almost 20 times greater than the mortgage cost in Coffeyville, KS ($205), the least expensive metro on this list.”

#56 DON on 06.11.19 at 9:02 pm

I see a Office building in Calgary is retro fitting to become apartments. I thought the election of Kenny was supposed to be all Alberta needed to do to spur the economy.

#57 Millennial Mayday on 06.11.19 at 9:09 pm

“We owe a ton. Save a little”….How about: Owe nothing. Saving little.

A couple of millennials need some advice from you Garth.

30 Male 75k/yr + 28 Female 50k/yr. Renting small 1 bedroom outside GTA for $1200/month. Both Uni degree.

No debt. (No credit card debt, no more student loans, no loc, no mortgage, no car loans). Both cars are owned outright.

That all sounds good…but we have very little saved, lets say $50k between us (mostly TFSA). Only started making decent money and saving in the last 2 years.

In the next year we have a wedding planned, 1 will need a new car, want to buy a house/start a small family so down to 1 income. But 50k will barely cover a decent down payment (40k = 10% in our city) + transaction costs and then we are strapped. Any help or advice is appreciated. We don’t eat avocado toast, we don’t even like avocadoes.

#58 Remembrancer on 06.11.19 at 9:26 pm

#57 Millennial Mayday on 06.11.19 at 9:09 pm

One $50K salary while trying to carry a $400K house + utilities + taxes + upkeep + car payment + you know, things like eating, gas, etc etc, is likely going to leave you a lot worse off than strapped – don’t know if Garth will weigh in, but this doesn’t seem to pass the “if you can afford it” test…

#59 Rexx Rock on 06.11.19 at 9:28 pm

Are you tired of the debt treadmill and high cost of living in Canada.Last year I went to a beach bar in Puerta Vallarta and talked to the waiter and he worked like dog for a few years in the US .He returned to PV and bought a nice little house for $38 000 usd and now says his life is much better.Food,gas,rent,property taxes and booze are so much cheaper.Go back to Kanada for the summer months, work,see friends and family.Make life simple and less stress.You only got one time around in this world mak

#60 MF on 06.11.19 at 9:30 pm

#49 IHCTD9 on 06.11.19 at 8:15 pm

I don’t know why you keep pushing this false narrative. I already debunked it a few months ago in a post.

Conclusions were:

-Ontario has much more inflow from other provinces than vice versa.
-Within Ontario inflow is mostly into the GTA
-The GTA is growing exponentially

I take issue with your post:

“Yes, increasing with folks coming primarily from the 3rd world.”

Yeah and? This is how its always been. Irish, Then Jews, Then Italians, Then Portuguese and so on. Nothing new here. Except of course that now we do get wealthy immigrants from other parts as well. Far more than any other time in history (when almost all immigrants were destitute).

Basically the GTA is going through what every other big city in the world is going through. Ultra wealthy core, and less wealthy suburbs. Wealthy immigrants flocking to the core, less wealthy immigrants and locals being pushed to the suburbs. This is a world wide situation and not specific to the GTA.

“In other words, those that have spent some time actually living in Toronto, are the folks who are bailing. Another way of saying it: Toronto has issues retaining its domestic population.”

-Completely wrong way of looking at it. The reason why anyone bails is because they cannot afford to live in Toronto. Not because they are fed up, or they dislike it, but more because they are willing to sacrifice and leave for what is less desirable but more affordable. We talk about this all the time on this blog. Let’s not twist it around into a negative. It’s more about having no other options.

“The bulk of said bailers are Millennials (306% increase), and it’s not too hard to figure out why.”

Couldn’t see any evidence of this anywhere. I see the complete opposite actually. The GTA is the place to be if you are young. It has the night life, entertainment, colleges/campuses, restaurants, and overall energy that no other city/town can come close to (and never will). Anecdotally, I talk to people (immigrants and natives coming to the GTA from all over Canada daily).

Newly-weds might be buying in Bradford or Barrie, but (again) that’s only because they have no choice, have accepted to have to commute to the GTA, and would buy in the GTA if they could afford it in a heartbeat.

MF

#61 MF on 06.11.19 at 9:33 pm

#38 Flop… on 06.11.19 at 7:21 pm

Lol I accept your nomination and will work hard to overtake the other competitors for first place.

MF

#62 DON on 06.11.19 at 9:41 pm

#1 Rexx Rock on 06.11.19 at 4:30 pm

Its all about wages.In GTA and the Lower Mainland wages are alot higher in these two cities than the USA.Another thing ,healthcare is free.Millienals will flock to these cities including Victoria because the abundant of high paying jobs.If theres a recession then there might be some trouble.But for now its all sunshine and buterflies!The housing market is like the stock market it keeps going up with small pullbacks.
****************************

Do you think before you speak?

The high paying jobs are at the older age range and I bet most of those folks already has a house or two or three. I have a younger friend who got a job with the BC Gov and he is looking for a part time job as he struggles to live in the downtown core, where EVERYTHING is expensive. Even with two incomes it is a struggle when shitty 1960s houses filled with asbestos go for $800K

When and how do you pay off 800k on average salaries remembering that a lot can change along the 25 years of payments.

Did you even read what Garth was saying – this ain’t Thailand.

#63 oh bouy on 06.11.19 at 9:42 pm

@#22 T on 06.11.19 at 5:43 pm
#9 MF on 06.11.19 at 4:49 pm

“. And this is why more people are moving to Edmonton, Windsor, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax.”

-GTA population is increasing far faster than the trickle of people leaving.

MF

Follow the herd. Good thinking. You’re a real rebel. – Garth

——–

Lol! A rebel without a clue.

MF – you should also compare incomes in these cities. It makes Toronto look like the joke it has become. And now, since the developments of last night, Toronto also looks like it’s full of classless arrogance. What a great place. If the cost of living doesn’t get you, the people surrounding you will – and cheer and laugh at you while you fail in order to make themselves feel good.

Great place! So glad I left.
_____________________________

So sour dude.
maybe look in the mirror before throwing shade at everyone else lol.

Toronto being the fastest growing city in North America means even tougher times ahead for those commuting or renting here. but alas, people want to be here. It is a fantastic city if you can afford it.

moving to the peg, the toon or one of the other great Canadian cities should start looking fairly appealing to some real soon.

#64 april on 06.11.19 at 9:44 pm

According to Auzzie Jurock ” Money Talks, June 8th, “another stress test is coming” which will knock even more buyers out of the market. Also expecting another 19% drop in Vancouver home prices and sales. Most house prices are already down 20%.

#65 ImGonnaBeSick on 06.11.19 at 10:01 pm

MF running for mayor of Toronto… you’re mf-ing delusional bud.

#66 Millennial Mayday on 06.11.19 at 10:02 pm

Thanks for the feedback Remembrancer.

The mortgage + feeding the family would be paid by the 75k income (50k take home). The 50k income will be on mat leave although we can reconsider that. Seems kinda crazy to me that a small family can’t afford to live on what (I think) is a fairly average income.

#67 Oh Canada, I weep. on 06.11.19 at 10:20 pm

Climate idiots, you’ve been brainwashed by climate carpet baggers, wake up or remain a good. It’s all nonsense, a giant tax grab for Mraxist idiocy, a big giveaway to angry lazy people who resent your diligence, organization, civilization and God.

#68 Renter's Revenge! on 06.11.19 at 10:23 pm

#39 Great Full on 06.11.19 at 7:21 pm

“I read this blog on occasion and can’t believe how many angry people there are out there.

I hate billionaires and think they should all get the guillotine and their wealth should be redistributed.”

???

#69 MF on 06.11.19 at 10:25 pm

ImGonnaBeSick on 06.11.19 at 10

Someone is #triggered and might need a #safespace

MF

#70 lifexprt on 06.11.19 at 10:26 pm

Thank God for my 10 minute car commute, well to be honest its more of a 30 minute bike ride as i just realized i’ve put more miles on the bike than car so far this year.

#71 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.11.19 at 10:35 pm

@#39 Flop
“I work with guys that commute from Abbotsford and Mission.”
++++

I work with a guy who commutes DAILY from Agassiz to Burnaby for the last 5 years. 80 miles each way.
And the kicker?
He rents….
“The air is so much cleaner out there.”

Which is a fallacy since by 3pm Mon to Friday all the smog is heading east into the valley with the traffic…

Ya cant fix stupid.

P.S.
Loved the Troll list.

#72 Not 1st on 06.11.19 at 10:35 pm

The same thing that is happening to NY SF LA will eventually happen to Toronto and Vancouver. That is progressives will destroy it and people will migrate in ward. CA had a huge exodus going on. It’s fantastic core has become a zombie wasteland. That’s torontos future. Canada mid sized cities will be the beneficiaries because surprise people would rather put food on the table than see a raptors game.

#73 Reality is stark on 06.11.19 at 10:36 pm

Being oblivious to debt is how a Canadian differentiates himself from others in this world.
There are no consequences for being a fool in this country. If you spend like a drunken sailor you qualify for the GIS. If you are prudent you don’t get the GIS.
If you are irresponsible and have children from different fathers you are still well compensated by the state for poor choices.
When you default on your debts the rest of the taxpayers will get hit with higher taxes to cover your idiocy.
Higher levels of debt will eventually lead to higher levels of taxation in the future. It is our destiny.

#74 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.11.19 at 10:38 pm

@#64 April
“According to Auzzie Jurock ” Money Talks, June 8th, “another stress test is coming” which will knock even more buyers out of the market. Also expecting another 19% drop in Vancouver home prices and sales. Most house prices are already down 20%.”

++++++
Holy Crap!
Ozzie Jurock actually said that!
He’s been pumping Lower Mainland Real Estate since I started listening to the Money Talks show in the early 90’s
Wow!
That speaks volumes when uber pumper Ozzie is ringing the alarm.

#75 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.11.19 at 10:41 pm

@#61 MF
“Lol I accept your nomination and will work hard to overtake the other competitors for first place.”

+++++

Thats the spirit! Striving for 1st place!

#76 IHCTD9 on 06.11.19 at 10:42 pm

#60 MF on 06.11.19 at 9:30 pm

I don’t know why you keep pushing this false narrative. I already debunked it a few months ago in a post.
——

It’s not false, and no you didn’t.

Conclusions were:

-Ontario has much more inflow from other provinces than vice versa.
——

I have never once stated anything with regards interprovincial migration.

-Within Ontario inflow is mostly into the GTA
——-

Wrong, Toronto loses more of its population to neighbouring cities than any other city in Canada. Look it up on Stats Can if you want. This is exactly what caught the media’s eye, and prompted all those articles that sprung up last year on Toronto and YVR intraprovincial migration (ie. up hundreds of percent).

-The GTA is growing exponentially
——-

Yes, thanks to international immigration. (Better?)

I take issue with your post:

“Yes, increasing with folks coming primarily from the 3rd world.”

Yeah and? [etc…]
——

I point this out because it is pertinent. The folks that know Toronto best are the same folks leaving it. Also, folks from Sweden, Germany, Switzerland etc… are NOT piling into Toronto (also pertinent).

Basically the GTA is going through what every other big city in the world is going through. Ultra wealthy core, and less wealthy suburbs.
——

Ahhh, according to published median household incomes, Toronto has a same old nothing special income core, with said subs.

-Completely wrong way of looking at it. The reason why anyone bails is because they cannot afford to live in Toronto. Not because they are fed up, or they dislike it, but more because they are willing to sacrifice and leave for what is less desirable but more affordable. We talk about this all the time on this blog. Let’s not twist it around into a negative. It’s more about having no other options.
——-

I very clearly (and deliberately) made no assertions as to why young folks are leaving, only that they are.

Couldn’t see any evidence of this anywhere.
——-

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/14/millennials-leaving-toronto-vancouver-statistics-canada-data-shows_a_23434284/

The problem here MF, is that you don’t understand what I’ve been posting WRT intraprovincial migration, and your attempted refutes are all over the place with irrelevant points.

Please, look up the words intraprovincial, and interprovincial, and memorize their meanings so we don’t have to go through this again. When you read my posts on this topic, read them CAREFULLY before replying.

#77 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.11.19 at 10:52 pm

@#57 Mayday Mayday
“In the next year we have a wedding planned, 1 will need a new car, want to buy a house/start a small family so down to 1 income. But 50k will barely cover a decent down payment (40k = 10% in our city) + transaction costs and then we are strapped. Any help or advice is appreciated. We don’t eat ”

******

For the love of God.
Apparently a university education doesnt equate to smart with money.
Have you learn nothing from this blog?
Housing prices are dropping…..possibly for the next few years.
Why buy?
Keep renting and saving money while watching the market.
Wants vs Needs.
Do you NEED a $2 Tim Hortons coffee every fricken day or is it easier than making your own and using a thermos.
Do you NEED to go out for dinner every Friday or Saturday and drop $100, $200, $300?
Do you NEED a new car when the one you have is mechanically fine but boring?
Ants vs Grasshoppers
Save more money now or starve later.
Patience is a virtue and it will save you thousands….

#78 TRUMP on 06.11.19 at 10:58 pm

Interest rates are going south

That means home prices are going North.

Homeownership to Canadians is like cheese to my dog Ralph. If he has to cross over 12 feet of flames to get it he will.

Just face it – immigration going up, unemployment at an all time low.

The run up in housing is near

#79 Remembrancer on 06.11.19 at 11:04 pm

#66 Millennial Mayday on 06.11.19 at 10:02 pm

The mortgage + feeding the family would be paid by the 75k income (50k take home). The 50k income will be on mat leave although we can reconsider that. Seems kinda crazy to me that a small family can’t afford to live on what (I think) is a fairly average income.
———————————————————
Ya, I should have spelled out the assumption of about $50K take home – anyway, something to think about: between mortgage, insurance, heating, hydro, water and property taxes alone you’re probably talking close $2K-ish a month leaving what, say $2200-ish a month for everything else?

Whatever it is, I’d say trying living on what you’ll be living on for 6 months and see how that works out before getting yourselves into a 25 year commitment that’s costing every cent you’ve got saved…

Oh, and I hope the wedding isn’t a fly-in to Cabo…

#80 IHCTD9 on 06.11.19 at 11:08 pm

#58 Remembrancer on 06.11.19 at 9:26 pm
#57 Millennial Mayday on 06.11.19 at 9:09 pm

One $50K salary while trying to carry a $400K house + utilities + taxes + upkeep + car payment + you know, things like eating, gas, etc etc, is likely going to leave you a lot worse off than strapped – don’t know if Garth will weigh in, but this doesn’t seem to pass the “if you can afford it” test…
——

Agree, the MM’s need to keep saving and forget about the house – at least till after the kids are at school full time, and Ms. MM is back at work full time.

Oh, and get a good used car instead of a new one, they’re cheap as dirt these days.

#81 The Great Gordonski on 06.11.19 at 11:42 pm

Talking about making good choices this fall? Look at the chaos Trudeaus backers and best buddies unleashed on Canada the same day he fell ass backwards into office on a fat cloud of foreign funded propaganda.

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/the-plot-to-murder-canadas-resource-sector-is-one-script-hollywood-wont-touch

This is real folks, proven, no fantasy. A Trudeau created nightmare that is recognized worldwide and hidden under thick layers of a media bribery scandal that keeps Trudeau from proper scrutiny.

You’re getting screwed by foreigners because your PM is either entirely naive or a complete dishonest puppet, you decide, but Trudeau is no friend to Canada, that’s a fact. For any PM to allow a foreign paid agent like Gerry Butts (Eurasia Group, a fanatic mash up of hate) to write policy for Canada must eventually be recognized as a bigger scandal than The Manchurian Candidate.

#82 Single use PM on 06.11.19 at 11:50 pm

Let’s make it happen for boxwater boy.

#83 paper-like drink box water sort of things on 06.12.19 at 12:21 am

#13 RE-Cowtown

Worry not. There will be no future with Justin Trudeau after his latest gaffe.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1138083509048881152

Pierre is probably rolling over in his grave after seeing this. Margaret is probably trying to hide in a drug induced coma.
I know I will be handing over my passport tomorrow.
Another example of “pot rot” and why we shouldn’t allow drama teachers to run countries… not ours, at least. Once I stop laughing, I will post a full reply.

BTW, he isn’t a good liar either since he and his family spend $300 / month on bottled water.

https://www.therebel.media/justin-trudeau-single-use-plastic-ban-household-spends-300-dollars-monthly-bottled-water

#84 Bugsy Siegel on 06.12.19 at 12:32 am

28% of net income.

Anything more than that allocated to housing and you will be miserable.

This is why there are so many pissed off people on the Left Coast.

BC and ON is screwed for a long time.

#85 Ponzius Pilatus on 06.12.19 at 1:14 am

#38 Flop… on 06.11.19 at 7:21 pm
Damn, I’m slipping.

Crowdie just reminded me to update my Troll Leaderboard.

I think in 2018 I had the top three as…

1) Mark, (real, fake, whatever.)

2) Smoking Man ( might have peaked)

3)Scared Canadian Millennial. (who?)

2019 version, we have some fresh meat.

1) Ponzi (been at it for a while but has taken it to the elite level)

2) Howard (the heir apparent)

3) MF (with a bullet)

4) honourable mention, 65 other guys( keep working at it, takes practice for some folks)…

M44BC
———
Floppy,
I’m so honored to make it into your Top Ten.

#86 Smoking Man on 06.12.19 at 1:41 am

More to Trumps Space Force than meets the eye.

Full Disclosure soon.

#87 Sail Away on 06.12.19 at 1:51 am

#39 Great Full on 06.11.19 at 7:21 pm

I hate billionaires and think they should all get the guillotine and their wealth should be redistributed

—————————————————–
Let’s try this:

I hate (women, men, poor people, Jews, Arabs, Christians, Mexicans) and think they should all get the guillotine and their (possessions) should be redistributed.

Sounds pretty silly, no?

#88 NEVER GIVE UP on 06.12.19 at 1:52 am

Suppose there are only 20 people in the world.
There was a complex of Caves built in a cliff wall by a wealthy man in a village of 10 people many thousands of years ago.
This clever and wealthy man built 9 caves to sell to the other 9 worker class people.
The clever and wealthy man sold 5 of the caves for 100 goats payable over 20 years but each year there are 6 % per year or 6 goats added to the remaining balance the first year. The buyers snapped them up and went to work herding their goats to pay off the debt in 10 or 15 years in order to live in comfort during later life.
After realizing that he could get a lot more goats for the remaining 5 caves he offered the caves to the remaining 5 peasants at 1000 goats with only 3% per year or 30 goats added to the remaining balance the first year with easy terms to pay off and grace for lean years when you have no extra goats and come up short.
The wealthy man realized that the 9 worker class people were illiterate and could not really understand what they were getting in to. The wealthy man essentially created indentured slaves of the remaining 5 cave buyers.

The 5 newest buyers realized only later that they would likely be very old and have worked very hard all their life for their cave if they ever were able to pay the cave off at all. These buyers had less children and ate poorly all the rest of their lives in order to pay for the mistake of buying their caves at unfavorable terms.

The wealthy man realized that he had now secured a very easy life for himself and his children for the rest of their lives at the expense of the financially illiterate.

In a neighboring village the population of 10 people lived within their means and built modest homes themselves by hewing their own caves into the rock and once they reached a level of comfort they had many parties and festivals with the excess of goat meat , clad in fine raiment from the sale of their excess goats of which there were many. These wise cave dwellers enjoyed life and enjoyed the fruit of their labor.

Unlike other countries with balanced home markets Canadians are living under the illusion that there is a limited supply of homes and they should buy now or forever be priced out of the market. The system favors the ruling class. Bankers, Developers, Politicians, The Media and Realtors have all over time conspired to herd the peasants of Canada into finished homes far above the means of the buyers.

This is done by making minimum standards of finishing that greatly increase the cost of new construction. A few of the other factors are onerous permitting costs by every level of government, easy credit and unreasonable land use restrictions in the second largest country in the world.

The peasantry of Canada has over time swallowed their mantra hook line and sinker. No one ever pushes back because they see their neighbor is living in a nicely finished “cave”. Most of us have shallow values and are susceptible to the “Keep up with the Jones’” syndrome. People seem to not be able to see the dangers they are walking into. Our culture of debt and self-enslavement is repugnant to many cultures in the world.

We have intentionally avoided educating our children about all things financial and are consequently paying the price.

#89 NEVER GIVE UP on 06.12.19 at 1:53 am

Human Farming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea0Alh_K-ow

#90 BillyBob on 06.12.19 at 3:21 am

Man, MF is grimly determined to believe the GTA is the centre of the universe, and then convince everyone else. No Toronto stereotype there! lol

I guess if you keep telling yourself the same thing long enough it gets easier to believe, and helps when rationalizing never doing anything to improve your situation.

It must be exhausting to be that willfully ignorant.

#91 Dolce Vita on 06.12.19 at 3:32 am

Off topic.

There are as usual, some very talented sardonic comedians in Canada (and in this case, one with an appreciation for the Scientific Method).

This HOMAGE dedicated to PM Nutter’s latest single use plastic ban answer* to a reporter the other day:

https://twitter.com/Can4liberty/status/1138227446472478721

131 more days until the Federal Election.

—————————–

*In case you missed it, “What do you and your family do to cut back on plastics?”:

https://twitter.com/Canadabuster/status/1138083509048881152

#92 Howard on 06.12.19 at 4:20 am

#24 Bob Dog on 06.11.19 at 5:51 pm
Amazon is about to migrate another 3000 people from around the globe to downtown Vancouver to work in the new facility vacated by Canada Post. Microshaft has already done this and soon Google will follow. These jobs pay more than enough to live here.

————————————-

Are they thought? I thought one of Vancouver’s bragging points (LOL) to companies was how low the wages are? Come to Canada for the cheap labour, stay for the great weather.

#93 Howard on 06.12.19 at 4:31 am

#60 MF on 06.11.19 at 9:30 pm

“Yes, increasing with folks coming primarily from the 3rd world.”

Yeah and? This is how its always been. Irish, Then Jews, Then Italians, Then Portuguese and so on. Nothing new here. Except of course that now we do get wealthy immigrants from other parts as well. Far more than any other time in history (when almost all immigrants were destitute).

—————————————-

Toronto was never 50%+ foreign-born until very recently. Those waves you mention above were not massive.

#94 The Great Gordonski on 06.12.19 at 4:36 am

DELETED

#95 Captain Uppa on 06.12.19 at 6:47 am

@MF
>> Completely wrong way of looking at it. The reason why anyone bails is because they cannot afford to live in Toronto. Not because they are fed up, or they dislike it, but more because they are willing to sacrifice and leave for what is less desirable but more affordable. We talk about this all the time on this blog. Let’s not twist it around into a negative. It’s more about having no other options.>>

I agree with most of the things you say, but this one I do not.

Sure there are people who move further away from the core due to affordability, but that is not the only reason. I know very wealthy people who live outside the city of Toronto for reasons other than money. They could easily afford to live in the 416 but do not want to. I know, this surprises many 416’ers.

Back in the day it was which parts of 416 are desirable and not, but now that argument has spread across the entire GTA. Some people love Oakville, some love Markham, some love Leslieville, some love Mississauga, etc. A lot depends on familial situation and personal interests. It’s not just about money.

#96 dharma bum on 06.12.19 at 6:49 am

#9 MF

-GTA population is increasing far faster than the trickle of people leaving.
——————————————————————–

THAT’s why so many of these urban suckers are pickled in debt and are essentially destined to be perpetually poor.

Drones. Worker bees.

Zombies.

They are all stupid sheeple. They are the herd.

I guess they just don’t know any better. Pure follower instinct. No independent thought.

The smart money is movin’ on OUT!

Life is too short to slave for mortgage payments, land transfer tax, property tax, gas, excessive car maintenance, and spending hours and hours and hours in traffic congestion.

Oh, did I mention overpriced houses?

And eff the Raptors.

#97 dharma bum on 06.12.19 at 7:25 am

#22 T

And now, since the developments of last night, Toronto also looks like it’s full of classless arrogance.
——————————————————————–

It’s basketball, its players, and its fans that are the bastion of classless arrogance.

Basketball fans make soccer hooligans look like choir boys.

Come to think of it, that actually fits right in with Toronto.

#98 MF on 06.12.19 at 8:18 am

96 dharma bum on 06.12.19 at 6:49 am

It’s okay. I was not smart and didn’t buy gta real estate either. Wah wah..I hope it goes down! Everyone who bought and made thousands is stupid and poor!

There. Does that feel like a better projection of juvenile insecurity to match your post? Feel better?

90 BillyBob on 06.12.19 at 3:21 am

Sorry but you live in the UK, basically a failed state/empire with a questionable future. I suggest you heed Trump’s advice in his Tweet to London’s mayor last week and look in the mirror before you hurl massive stones from your glass house.

MF

#99 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.12.19 at 8:18 am

@#83 paper like drink box

“Trudeau and his family spend $300 / month on bottled water”.

*****
Yeah.
One of the easiest questions he could have had lobbed to him in a Media scrum.
“What are YOU doing to cut down on single use plastic?”

Errr ahhh ummm, we ummm, errrr ahhhh, we ahhhh……”

Totally unprepared for a simple question on a subject HE has created as an election agenda….in the final months of unofficial campaigning.
I guess Butts was useful for something other than badgering and intimidating MP’s that stepped out of line…

Its quite a choice this election as the economy staggers towards fiscal quicksand.

Once the election writ is dropped, the Ads should be quite nasty.
But not too nasty since we may be facing a minority govt and the one with the most seats will have to go, cap in hand, to the enemy camp for “support”.

The choices are:

Social Justice Gender Person,
Andrew Sneer,
The Furry Freak Brother.
Elizabeth Maybe

I cant wait.

.

#100 oh bouy on 06.12.19 at 8:54 am

@#90 BillyBob on 06.12.19 at 3:21 am

It must be exhausting to be that willfully ignorant.

_____________________

LMAO, hilariously ironic comment coming from you of all posters. glass houses…

#101 jess on 06.12.19 at 9:11 am

“wind up” law firm

change to the rule that currently exempts lawyers from having to report suspicious transactions to Fintrac.

“bare trusts”

“Bare trust deals have become extremely controversial in the midst of B.C.’s money laundering scandal because the transactions allow investors to hide their ownership of land in documents only accessible to lawyers.

Critics, including B.C. Attorney General David Eby and Finance Minister Carole James, have called bare trusts a loophole that helped drive home prices higher and turned B.C. real estate into a secrecy haven ideal for international criminals seeking to hide dirty money and evade taxes.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5346848/alleged-gang-kingpin-liberal-mp-law-firm-launder-money-bc/?utm_source=Homegnca-kitchener&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

#102 SG on 06.12.19 at 9:28 am

Interesting report from National Bank – “Is Canada’s household leverage too high or on the low side?” Albeit it is from 2018 but data should still be still relevant..

https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/special-report-11jan2018.pdf

#103 jess on 06.12.19 at 9:36 am

With deep fakes and fake news turn people off social media?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywyxex/deepfake-of-mark-zuckerberg-facebook-fake-video-policy

#104 Captain Uppa on 06.12.19 at 9:41 am

40% of renters are indeed “house poor” according to a survey by Ratesupermarket.

Further…

“According to rental site Padmapper, the average asking price for a one-bedroom apartment in Toronto was $2,250 in May, up 8.2 per cent in a year.”

Link: https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/rental-housing-affordability_ca_5d00230de4b011df123c4e14?ncid=APPLENEWS00001

#105 Blacksheep on 06.12.19 at 10:30 am

Crowd # 37,

“Wow!
That speaks volumes when uber pumper Ozzie is ringing the alarm.”
—————————-
So you believe, he’s turned into a RE bear.

Really…

You can’t think of any other reason he (a RE pumper) would tell the media how horrible the RE market is and that it’s only going to get worse?

#106 Re-Cowtown on 06.12.19 at 10:37 am

The buzz is that T2 will reject all of the recommendations made to Bill C-69. This makes it almost impossible to develop any natural resource plays.

Trudeau has rejected the views of Premiers representing 60% of the population of Canada and even more of those directly affected and has instead sided with a cabal of dark money American billionaires.

Nice.

#107 jess on 06.12.19 at 10:46 am

what mueller warned applies everywhere

“The link between the two was spotted by Kyle Ehmke, a ‘threat intelligence researcher’ with ThreatConnect, a cybersecurity company.

When an individual or company sets up or is involved with several different websites, they sometimes use a common Google analytics account to monitor web traffic of the various sites. Each Google analytics account has a unique ID number which can be found in the coding of the website. …

Both Definers and America Rising are closely linked to NTK (Need to Know) Network, which claims to be a news website “without the liberal bias”.

All three entities share staff and office space in Arlington, Virginia. Joe Pounder, Chief Executive of America Rising Corp, also describes himself as a co-founder of Definers Corp, and NTK Network lists him as their Editor-in-Chief; while Allan Blutstein has submitted FOIA requests for Definers, America Rising, America Rising Squared, and the NTK Network.

Newly filed corporate documents in the United Kingdom show that Definers staff, including the CEO Joe Pounder, and the Definers’ Chief Financial Officer, have set up a new entity – Crier Media Group – in both the UK and the US. Similar to Definers, Crier Media provides media monitoring services. (Definers have also set up UK Policy Group in the UK – claiming it was “bringing campaign-style research to corporate clients”.) According to LinkedIn records several Definers and UK Policy Group staff moved simultaneously to Crier Media Group.

https://www.globalwitness.org/en/blog/behind-trumps-border-wall-political-operatives-a-controversial-pr-firm-and-an-alleged-fake-news-site/

Google Analytics Tag Usage and History
https://builtwith.com/relationships/tag/UA-104548856

#108 The Latest Buzz on 06.12.19 at 10:52 am

#106 Re-Cowtown – I have never thought of a cabal before or the dark side in politics. Could this be true? I remember years ago having dinner with a university professor. He stated that all corruption can only be accomplished in the darkness, away from the eyes of the world.

#109 Cowtown Blues. on 06.12.19 at 10:56 am

#106 Re-Cowtown on 06.12.19 at 10:37 am

The buzz is that T2 will reject all of the recommendations made to Bill C-69. This makes it almost impossible to develop any natural resource plays.

Trudeau has rejected the views of Premiers representing 60% of the population of Canada and even more of those directly affected and has instead sided with a cabal of dark money American billionaires.

Nice.

……

Factors that must be considered with Bill C-69

(s) the intersection of sex and gender with other identity factors;

What the hell does that mean!….. where do they come up with stuff……….and all investment disappears with that beauty

#110 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.12.19 at 11:13 am

@#105 Blacksheep
“You can’t think of any other reason he (a RE pumper) would tell the media how horrible the RE market is and that it’s only going to get worse?”

+++++
Well, i guess if I was delusionally paranoid I might think he was an alien from another planet trying to crash the monetary system.
Avoid cruise ships.
They’re actually alien cattle farms to fatten the food supply.

#111 Re-Cowtown on 06.12.19 at 11:13 am

#106 Re-Cowtown on 06.12.19 at 10:37 am
The buzz is that T2 will reject all of the recommendations made to Bill C-69. This makes it almost impossible to develop any natural resource plays.

Trudeau has rejected the views of Premiers representing 60% of the population of Canada and even more of those directly affected and has instead sided with a cabal of dark money American billionaires.

Nice.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Gosh I wonder what T2’s collaborator’s reward will be? Can anyone spell U.N.?

If Canada’s Natural Resource industry had known that it could have just bought him one and saved us 500,000 jobs.

#112 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 11:22 am

The short of your lifetime lies in the TSX today after Trudeau decides to reject all bill amendments and slam it home.

Once Ab separates and cleaves energy out of the index and halts transfers the TSX (and Quebec) will be shell of itself.

Remember progressives, you wanted this.

So where ya’ll going? – Garth

#113 IHCTD9 on 06.12.19 at 11:22 am

Toronto really does have some major problems brewing.

One big one: Toronto has not been able to harness immigration to stay young, as its median age is ~40. Moreover, what childbearing domestic youth it has are starting to bail out, while seniors are increasing in number every year.

Toronto is only a decade or two away from more deaths than births. This puts the city on a path where their natural growth rate will soon be negative, so their entire population will need to be imported (likely from Africa and the Middle East).

Toronto’s population growth rate has been on a steady decline since 1990. Even with all the foreign immigrants piling in, Toronto barely cracks 1% annual population growth numbers. Projections for 2020 forward are all under 1%.

I hate to say it, but when it comes to economic immigrants, they are not all equal. A Western cultured and educated, English speaking 25 year old is MUCH more desirable than an uneducated 35 year old who can’t speak English, and grew up in a hut.

The GTA has not been able to attract many Western Immigrants for decades now. Current Chinese/Indian Immigration is now also expected to slow down, these two groups have large enclaves for support, and can show up and start working almost immediately, with near zero costs to local taxpayers. The future expectations of mostly African/Middle Eastern immigrants will have near zero ability to do the same. The economic benefits from economic immigration in Toronto are going to sink like a stone over the next few decades.

Looking at all the trends and forecasts, IMHO; Toronto’s destiny is to be jammed with folks born elsewhere, and old people. That’s about it. Toronto is already having major issues retaining its young childbearing couples – and the current expectations for the future only add more of the very same problems that are driving families away. It’s just not a family friendly city, and there’s no realistic way to fix it.

#114 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 11:34 am

Let me tell MF something. Toronto and Quebec exist at the leisure of western Canada, not the other way around. $500B in transfers went into those provinces from resource rich areas in the west just so you can walk down the street now and grab a latte on the way to the raptors game. Imagine what the boondock cities in Canada that you put down would look like with that kind of money coming in.

You need a real lesson on how wealth is generated in this country and how your lifestyle is funded by the very industries that politicians you voted for are now kill.

Trudeau was warned and now he can own the break up of the country. The preparations are being made as we speak.

#115 Leo Trollstoy on 06.12.19 at 12:10 pm

Toronto is the fastest growing city (population) in the continent!

https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/06/toronto-found-be-fastest-growing-city-us-and-canada/

#116 BillyBob on 06.12.19 at 12:18 pm

90 BillyBob on 06.12.19 at 3:21 am

Sorry but you live in the UK, basically a failed state/empire with a questionable future. I suggest you heed Trump’s advice in his Tweet to London’s mayor last week and look in the mirror before you hurl massive stones from your glass house.

===================================

I realize as Flop says you’re just trolling, but it’s still fun to rebut.

Not even remotely a valid comparison, my dear little MF – unlike yourself and most Canadians, if things don’t work out in the UK, I simply move on to greener pastures, or sit back on the portfolio yes, even in Canuckistan. The world is my oyster – have beautiful g/f, will travel. What’s your plan? Sit the rest of your life in your scintillating government job, whining about how you can’t afford a house trying to convince everyone Toronto is all that? Sounds solid.

In the meantime, I throughly enjoy what I do, commanding longhaul flights all over the world. My commute to work consists of an eight-minute walk to the train, then a 15 minute direct train to Gatwick. £3.20, wave my iPhone at the reader. Fly my lovely Boeing somewhere, then home. 4x a month, tops. Pay is less than I made in the Middle East, but I took this job for lifestyle, and it’s still miles better than the average UK wage. Days off, it’s a 15 min train to London Bridge station if I want to do something interesting in a proper City. Or hop an EZY flight – don’t work for them, but friend has me on staff passes – 2 hours, I’m in Prague for £13.

Brexit/no Brexit – who cares? I’m not British. (Is IS fun having the legal right to vote here though, as well as in Canada). I can always go back to the Middle or Far East if I want to make 20k – net – a month again. Thing is I don’t really need the money, been there, done that, saved and invested like crazy for a decade thanks to Garth so I’m just cruisin’ now. I’m a “failure”, remember? lol

Stick me in that camp of people who CAN afford a house in the 416, cash, but simply have zero interest in the place. Your comment that people leave because they have no choice is astoundingly, hilariously arrogant and naive. You just don’t have a clue, and to paraphrase The Sixth Sense, you don’t even know you don’t have a clue.

You keep your basketball team, I’ll keep my lifestyle. Peace!

#117 Headhunter on 06.12.19 at 12:24 pm

poor MF in the woodshed once again. He must really like it there.

As I have stated many times highly educated immigrants. The Dr’s, Engineers, Scientists. Toronto is not their 1st destination choice. Many kind posters have already stated why.

#118 Steven Rowlandson on 06.12.19 at 12:36 pm

“The question’s simple: what’s your time worth?”

The labor market says $15 an hour and the real estate market requires that I make home prices divided by equal to or less than 6,000 man hours. Life in Canada?
No matter where I am I can’t get there from here. It is above my pay grade.

#119 DriveByArgument on 06.12.19 at 12:39 pm

“Once Ab separates and cleaves energy out of the index and halts transfers the TSX (and Quebec) will be shell of itself.

Remember progressives, you wanted this.

So where ya’ll going? – Garth”

——————————————

As an Albertan, I’d rather see our economy crushed within Canada than join the US or become “sovereign” (which just means slow absorption into the US).

To me the model for Alberta to follow is Quebec which enjoys all the benefits of Confederation while pretty much having things their own way through belligerence and sheer force of will.

I don’t think Alberta should practice the Quebecois fiction of being an independent nation, but we should only support Canada with whatever resources are left over after taking good care of ourselves.

This is not a country with the military or federal police apparatus to “move in” on Alberta if it simply does as it pleases. I only hope that Kenney is here to do more than throw symbolic tantrums.

I want to see us paying our taxes to the provincial government who then remits the Feds their portion. I want to see the rail lines carrying goods the BC ports closed for repairs or at least slowed down considerably to protect wildlife (once they get east of Calgary – we have to get what we need off the trains first of course).

Trudeau said he wanted a Post National country and to his credit Canada indeed no longer really functions as a nation.

He thinks Canada is his stepping stone to a more glamorous position on the world stage. I’d love to see the look on that guys face when it dawns on him that the International Community doesn’t have any use for his virtue signalling.

I just weep for the damage he does meantime.

#120 Ace Goodheart on 06.12.19 at 12:48 pm

So the head of CMHC has basically declared open warfare on the realtor and mortgage lobbyists.

I have seldom heard a high level government official refer to an idea presented by a lobbyist as “dumb” and “dumber” but those are the words he used, when talking about 30 and 50 year mortgage amortizations:

“If you extend amortization, you’re increasing demand and increasing debt. So you know my answer: I think it’s dumb,” he said, adding: “Fifty years is dumber than 30.”

This sort of stuff can’t be taken lightly. Those are strong words.

Ontario, meanwhile, continues to slide further into the status of an insolvent sub sovereign state, reaching the milestone of $346 billion dollars owing recently. That is $24,058.00 owing for every person in this Province.

A thing or two to know about governments. Our current one, lead by Ford II and Co., is quite serious about cutting government spending. And they will. They will cut and slice and tear up as much cash burn as they can. They have to. The other choice is raise taxes, and they are Conservative. Conservatives hate doing that.

The problem of course with cutting spending, is how elections are set up.

Everyone gets a vote. The vast majority of people living in Ontario, have few assets, small incomes, a lot of debt and rely heavily on government funded services. These are the people who will vote in a socialist government if their services are cut.

We avoid that situation, by promising this large Dothraki Horde the spoils of success. Trickle down theory. Little perks and benefits. The promise of a better life. This promise got Donald Trump elected in the USA, and it has been the driving force behind every successful Conservative government in Canada. Promise the working poor and middle classes something better, and you will get elected, if you are a conservative.

If you are a socialist, promise more taxes, eat the rich, and free government money. That is how socialists get elected.

The concern with Ontario’s situation is twofold. Firstly, we are out of money. So whatever we do, we have to cut, cut, cut. Secondly, people are pissed off about the cuts, cuts, cuts.

Socialism breeds on lies. Just look at BC. Currently their government is eroding their civil rights, pursuing wealth taxation, and acting as a misinformed nanny state for their citizens’ finances. Pretty soon, if the BC government determines you are a “money launderer”, you are (and that is that, you can’t disagree) and they will just confiscate your stuff. This is socialism, bred on one lie after another, it just grows.

Now, socialist governments are not very smart, money wise. Most of them have never heard of an investment portfolio. They concentrate their efforts on real estate confiscation. Look at any major successful socialist state, what is the first thing they took from people? Their property rights. (Exiled Cubans to this date are still trying to get their land back from the communists, and Trump recently permitted them to sue foreign companies who do business with the Cuban government, for monies lost when their real estate was confiscated).

If Ontario descends into socialism, then the first (and probably the only) wealth that the Ontario socialists will be taxing, is your house.

This is significant. Socialists, as I said above, do not have a very good understanding of investment portfolios, or the massive tomes of information called “National Instruments” that regulate our securities markets. Attempting to tax wealth held in negotiable securities, such as stocks, bonds and ETFS, is beyond the mental capacity of most socialists.

Taxing real estate, on the other hand, is easy. The tax regimes already exist (all real estate in Ontario is subject to a wealth tax known as “property tax” which we all pay, for the privilege of owning it).

Just consider how weird it would feel if the Ontario Government was taxing you yearly for the wealthy sin of holding your $150,000 in ETFs and ETNs, with yearly increases each year to match inflation. Wouldn’t that seem just downright strange? Or if there was a tax levied on all your bank balances at the end of each year? Or if your bonds were subject to a yearly percentage tax based on how much they were estimated to be worth? Or if your stock holdings were taxed at a percentage of their maximum value, when compared to other stock holdings, at a period of time during the year?

Well, this stock (which you bought for $5.00 a share) is very similar to ten other stocks, which are worth $25.00 a share…..so regardless of how much you could actually sell your stock for, and regardless of any fees and commissions involved in doing so, we will tax you on the basis that the stock is worth $25.00 per share, because that is what we think it is worth.

Can you imagine?

That is how real estate is currently taxed.

Socialist governments love to stir up group envy of expensive houses. Having a bunch of people wish they were living in your house, is one of the fundamental grounding points of all socialism (step two is confiscating the house).

So………….if you kind of see that the Ontario political sentiment is drifting left, it might be time to offload all but the most necessary real estate holdings.

And move to a poor neighbourhood…………

#121 Dups on 06.12.19 at 12:48 pm

Interesting article on London Free Press: https://lfpress.com/real-estate/mortgages/its-going-to-be-hard-to-own-a-home-in-toronto-if-you-are-not-part-of-the-10-report/wcm/30f02238-be71-4b0e-9fd6-bbf8c6fdbe28

#122 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 12:57 pm

All Kenny would have to do is announce intention to separate and the west would have an extra 5 million people moving in tomorrow.

Actually it would be in the other direction, once residents understood what a hit separation would be to their standard of living. – Garth

#123 DM in C on 06.12.19 at 1:02 pm

Ever try commuting from the ‘burbs to DT Halifax? You think Toronto is bad. When there’s an accident on one or both bridges, and there’s only two other ways off the peninsula.

It’s taken me three hours in winter some times, where the Bedford Highway was backed up to Barrington St.

Halifax isn’t some golden ideal. It’s got issues too.

But you can always swim to work. (Or live right downtown for $400,000). – Garth

#124 Texas North on 06.12.19 at 1:18 pm

We got 6 years for Trump to adopt us……

#125 entropy on 06.12.19 at 1:20 pm

Been living that life for 15 yrs. I’ve had enough. Yet here I am……still here. Making an honest attempt to finally gtfo.

Naturally many think Im crazy. ” WHY would you leave? “

#126 IHCTD9 on 06.12.19 at 1:21 pm

#115 Leo Trollstoy on 06.12.19 at 12:10 pm
Toronto is the fastest growing city (population) in the continent!

https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/06/toronto-found-be-fastest-growing-city-us-and-canada/
__

Those are estimated numbers. SC doesn’t count again until 2021. The previous SC census period was 2011-2016 where the actual real annualized population growth of Toronto was 0.86%. This blog you linked to is claiming 2.7% in ONE year…

That smells a little like the recent job numbers to me.

I’d keep the champagne corked until you get the actual real numbers.

#127 Re-Cowtown on 06.12.19 at 1:21 pm

#122 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 12:57 pm
All Kenny would have to do is announce intention to separate and the west would have an extra 5 million people moving in tomorrow.

Actually it would be in the other direction, once residents understood what a hit separation would be to their standard of living. – Garth
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The only way it would be a hit to Alberta’s standard of living is if the feds were able to effectively block energy exports and destroy the energy sector through regulations.

Oh, wait they’re already doing that.

And you’re point being what Garth? The feds have already nuked Alberta’s economy. To quote Trump “What the hell do you have to lose?”

Many years ago a good friend and I were discussing an increasingly antagonistic and hostile business situation that I was in embroiled in. He said “Some situations are fundamentally unmanageable and you just have to leave”. I followed his advice and the first while was scary but it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Garth, please don’t suggest that Alberta stays in Confederation for the sake of the kids. It only makes it sound like an abusive relationship where the abused party should just take it and stay.

Actually you don’t have a choice. – Garth

#128 Might Sail Down Too on 06.12.19 at 1:33 pm

#123 DM in C – Well, if I wanted to ever live in Halifax, the area of Bedford would be my first choice for a nice place to live. You got that right. Personally, would not be living there, because there are better towns around that have everything.

#129 Captain Uppa on 06.12.19 at 1:38 pm

>>#115 Leo Trollstoy on 06.12.19 at 12:10 pm
Toronto is the fastest growing city (population) in the continent!

https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/06/toronto-found-be-fastest-growing-city-us-and-canada/>>

125,000 more residents in the GTA in ONE YEAR (July 2017 – July 2018)

#130 TurnerNation on 06.12.19 at 1:42 pm

#50 Keith a burger on the street for 2.75? In Van?
Sounds unlikely when a street hot dog is $4 in Toronto.

#131 MF on 06.12.19 at 1:42 pm

#114 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 11:3

I’m pro pipeline, pro oil, and pro Alberta.

Once again I ask this poster: just who are you talking to?

MF

#132 PoorEngineer on 06.12.19 at 2:16 pm

#73 Reality is stark on 06.11.19 at 10:36 pm

——————————

Very well said.

Canada rewards the lazy and penalizes the hard working. I have an acquaintance who has 4 kids and neither parents work. They just got a new car. They do little jobs under the table here and there, for minimum pay. Overall, their lifestyle is better than ours (sole exception: we have a bigger home), AND they get to be home with their children.

He is in favour of Canada bringing in as many immigrants as want to come here as “we have lots of land”.
I don’t think he’ll share that same opinion if he worked and paid taxes to bring (and support) the entire 3rd world population into Canada.

Most of my university colleagues are down south.
Wifey and I are getting ready for the move there too. I’m guessing in 2-3 years (unless a major event occurs in our lives to make us stay).

Again, I am not alone in my thinking. Most of my current colleagues are thinking the same. My only friends that won’t even think about leaving Canada are either: a) leaches like example mentioned above, or b) have inheritances so don’t worry about putting money aside, or c) are too stupid to realize they will be eating dirt when they retire since they have no money to invest.

A close friend moved to California 5 years ago with his wife (both in IT), working at Google & FB. They are thinking of coming back to Canada now as they were able to save about 500K USD, while living a lavish life too. They’ll have little to no mortgage once they are back.

#133 Blacksheep on 06.12.19 at 2:26 pm

Crowd # 110,

@#105 Blacksheep
“You can’t think of any other reason he (a RE pumper) would tell the media how horrible the RE market is and that it’s only going to get worse?”
+++++
“Well, i guess if I was delusionally paranoid I might think he was an alien from another planet trying to crash the monetary system.
Avoid cruise ships.
They’re actually alien cattle farms to fatten the food supply.”
————————————————
Deflection, via self-deprication and attempted humour, that’s one way to go.

I would have preferred hearing your reasoning on the storyline you have commented on twice now, that things are so dire, these high profile former RE bulls (Glowbull & Ozzy) are now broadcasting as RE bears?

Because It’s the right thing to do and it’s the truth? (ahem…sure)

PS: I feel your using the term “delusionally paranoid” is insensitive, I bet you didn’t know it’s mental illness awareness month in Canada, did you?

#134 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 2:30 pm

Actually you don’t have a choice. – Garth

The Clarity Act which Quebec fought for lays out a simple majority under provincial referendum to start the process. Its legal.

And impossible. Stop dreaming. – Garth

#135 NYCer on 06.12.19 at 2:41 pm

Commuting sucks. I used to commute to Mississauga and it took almost 3 hrs door to desk and I could not imagine doing this forever.

Moved to Toronto and now 30min door to desk on TTC. Not perfect but more flexible and the 2 hrs a day makes all the difference.

#136 Keith on 06.12.19 at 3:13 pm

@#130 Turner Nation

You’re right, it’s actually 2.85. My bad. Wak Wak burger is on Granville street, a half block from the Skytrain station everyday.

https://streetfoodapp.com/vancouver/yokabai-burger

#137 crowdedelevatorfartz on 06.12.19 at 3:17 pm

@#133 Blacksheep
“I would have preferred hearing your reasoning on the storyline you have commented on twice now, that things are so dire, these high profile former RE bulls (Glowbull & Ozzy) are now broadcasting as RE bears?”
++++

Perhaps the Real Estate cartel isnt advertising on Glowball (and CKNW) as much as they did when times were good.

With your previous query.
I just assumed you were another of the trolling conspiracy theorist paranoids infesting the internet.
I was wrong.
Well, glad to know you figured it out all by yourself with only a modicum of snootyness.
As for “Mental Awareness Month”… I worked at a Mental Hospital all during High school…..I found that most patients were either completely unaware of their surrounding to care OR they were overly sensitive
to their surroundings.. NO amount of public awareness will change that.
Whatever.
I cant keep up with all the endless “touchy feely” charitable causes designed to empty your pockets and make you feel better.
Pink shirt day doesnt end bullying.
Bike to Work doesnt end pollution, Motorcycle awareness Month doesnt stop bike accidents, Fathers Day doesnt improve childbirth rates, whatever.
I donate blood and occasionally give a one legged beggar at the liquor store loonies because I know some other organization wont make a dime off my contribution.

#138 MF on 06.12.19 at 3:24 pm

#132 PoorEngineer on 06.12.19 at 2:16 pm

Prototypical grass is greener falsehood. Coupled with some woe is me external cause of blame.

It’s always nice to look down from the top of the business cycle but guess what? There are 21 trillion (and counting) reasons why the US will hit a wall soon. Hope you read last weekend’s post about it.

MF

#139 Dan August on 06.12.19 at 3:49 pm

I’m sorry to say but Liberals, NDP, Greens, socialists and the whole left side of politics and ideology just grows more losers.

They having but old, tired, useless, damaging policies that know they don’t work and is purposely for destructive power and more control with the end game of global, technological slavery.

#140 Rexx Rock on 06.12.19 at 3:58 pm

LM and Victoria is about sacrifice and lifestyle.Work hard and save,yes a fulltime and a part time job is a must for many years.Also being extremely frugal.There is many things going against you living here,it all started in the late 80’s.I won’t go into it but I know most of you can figure it out if you lived here for awhile.Its all about choices,if you like six months of winter and looking out your window onto a barren wasteland for a cheaper house or condo go ahead.

#141 Ubul on 06.12.19 at 4:27 pm

#134 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 2:30 pm

Actually you don’t have a choice. – Garth

The Clarity Act which Quebec fought for lays out a simple majority under provincial referendum to start the process. Its legal.

And impossible. Stop dreaming. – Garth

The cat is out of the bag.

Some cat. No split without a constitutional amendment. Good luck with that. – Garth

#142 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 4:49 pm

No crisis eh Garth. Entire west targeted now. Trudeau takes ship building contract away from BC gives it to Quebec.

https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/258603/Icebreaker-order-cut

Not what the story says. Sixteen new ships go to BC for one moved elsewhere. No destination named. Take a Valium. – Garth

#143 Ubul on 06.12.19 at 4:56 pm

#141 Ubul on 06.12.19 at 4:27 pm

#134 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 2:30 pm

Actually you don’t have a choice. – Garth

The Clarity Act which Quebec fought for lays out a simple majority under provincial referendum to start the process. Its legal.

And impossible. Stop dreaming. – Garth

The cat is out of the bag.

Some cat. No split without a constitutional amendment. Good luck with that. – Garth

They could just request to join England :) Re-unite with the Queen.

#144 Pfft on 06.12.19 at 7:26 pm

@#114 not 1st on 06.12.19 at 11:34 am
Let me tell MF something. Toronto and Quebec exist at the leisure of western Canada, not the other way around. $500B in transfers went into those provinces from resource rich areas in the west just so you can walk down the street now and grab a latte on the way to the raptors game. Imagine what the boondock cities in Canada that you put down would look like with that kind of money coming in.

You need a real lesson on how wealth is generated in this country and how your lifestyle is funded by the very industries that politicians you voted for are now kill.

Trudeau was warned and now he can own the break up of the country. The preparations are being made as we speak.
______________________

Lol. In your small mind maybe.

#145 Just Rebellion on 06.13.19 at 4:06 am

Big difference why the West will separate and Quebec wanting a bigger bribe. The West will separate violently regardless of the “Clarity Act”. We won’t wait around to see how Quebec and Nova Scotia vote. Lots of people seriously discussing which swath of land we will take across BC to get our resources to the coast. The difference, were spoiling for a fight, Trudeau thinks we won’t. Just watch.

#146 Re-Cowtown on 06.13.19 at 9:01 am

Actually you don’t have a choice. – Garth
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Actually you always have a choice. The question is whether you’re willing to pay the price for your choice.

The Americans had “no choice” in 1776 but they chose anyway.

Once a person or a people have make up their mind to do something it doesn’t matter. It would be an unbelievable irony if T2 chose to send in the tanks… to Calgary…

We have tanks? – Garth