Criminals & cons

In BC last year 78,345 properties sold. The average price was $712,508. So, the market as a whole was worth a tad under $56 billion. This was a big drop from 2017, and there will be more declines to come.

Late last week the NDP government in that province, heavily invested in destroying the housing market through regs and taxes, unveiled reports alleging $7.4 billion had been ‘laundered’ in the province last year by criminal elements, some through casinos and business activities and some through buying real estate.

The Dippers concluded maybe $5.3 billion of this went into property sales possibly impacting prices by as much as 5%. The reports certainly fed the government’s narrative that houses cost more than they should because of external forces – immigration, satellite families, offshore investors, 1%ers, gangs and dirty money. This has so far resulted in a huge 20% foreign buyers’ tax, a so-called speculation tax, an empty houses tax and higher property taxes on expensive homes. Caught in the web have been people in Alberta or Ontario who have seasonal properties, second homes or business-related residences. US citizens working in Vancouver dare not buy now. The laws have done much to isolate the province and, if market activity is any indication, drive away capital.

The reports last week came with a bombshell idea. The NDPers now say they’ll actively consider legalizing UWOs, or unexplained wealth orders. This would grant the government the absolute power to seize real estate from anyone unable or unwilling to provide an explanation of where they got the money to buy. No criminal activity would need to be proven, suspected, or involved. The stated rational is that money might be the result of offshore activity, and beyond the reach of Canadian law.

Recent polls indicating most people in BC approve of taxing people extra just because they live primarily in Calgary, have a recreational property or live in a nice house suggest they’ll also sanctions UWOs. Too bad. The consequences could be dire.

The idea behind such a power is that someone is guilty until proven innocent. The basic principle that authorities cannot search or seize your assets without due process is tossed on the rubbish heap of uninformed, prejudiced and envious public opinion. The privacy of capital is being shattered in BC as the province drifts further to the left. The new beneficial ownership registry is further proof Dippers believe your neighbours, colleagues, friends, workmates or employer should have the right to know what you own. Once that’s public, of course, it can be taxed or taken – if you have too much, or obtained it secretly.

Is money laundering bad?

Of course. It’s illegal. Criminals need to be stopped and punished. We have many laws on the books now enabling agencies to do just that. Including the right to seize property found to have been acquired through crime, or the proceeds of crime.

BC additionally has a civil forfeiture mechanism allowing property to be taken if the province can prove, on a balance or probabilities – but not through a conviction – that it was connected with some crime. Draconian enough, since there’s no way to appeal that action if the asset’s worth more than $75,000.

But giving government the legal right to take property wholly on the basis of suspicion, or from someone unwilling (for any reason) to reveal the source of the funds when there is zero evidence of wrongdoing, is immensely dangerous.

For a while this blog has argued that external factors – offshore buyers and, yes, dirty money – were minor influencers of the entire market. Far more consequential were low interest rates, over-borrowing, rampant speculation, FOMO and a cultural obsession with real estate in most of BC. Government and industry stats have shown about 5% of buyers were non-residents and the dirty money report last week pegged about the same number for money laundering. That is not insignificant, but it’s also not enough to make the market. Those who did 90-95% of all deals – locals – were the ones setting prices. Now that the market’s tumbling, they’re doing it again, by stepping back.

The NDP is the party of victims. It helps raise many voices that are drowned out in the mad rush of growth and progress. That’s worthwhile. But the campaign to blame an entire inflated housing market on dudes from China or gangs of thugs with hockey bags of money is absurd. That people actually believe this is disheartening.

It was amusing to watch for a while. Not any more. The market’s being crushed. Now civil liberties are going under the bus.

You have lost your way.

199 comments ↓

#1 Flop... on 05.12.19 at 3:40 pm

I thought we might get a cuddly Mothers Day post.

Instead of of cuddled, we get muddied.

I once spoke about a house getting shut down due to the owner supposedly getting funds out of China.

I never did see the finished house.

There was another house I worked on for six months, that I always wondered where the money was coming from as they appeared to be a suspect bunch of dudes.

The rest?

Pretty vanilla, I guess.

Move up buyers and rich people trying to get more wealthy by speculating.

I do believe they called it investing…

M44BC

#2 BG on 05.12.19 at 3:41 pm

I thought the presumption of innocence was protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

#3 Sam on 05.12.19 at 3:44 pm

It is well known internationally that if you want to hide money buy real estate in Canada

BC is putting a NAME to all properties.About time
Shameless Canada

#4 just a dude on 05.12.19 at 3:45 pm

Mr. Turner, excellent post. Thank you.

The very concept of a UWO is disgusting to me. Never heard of such a thing. Absolutely repulsive that this is even being discussed.

There was a time that I respected the notions brought forth by NDP supporters. Not so anymore; things are getting dangerous out west. Glad I decided against moving there when I had opportunity to do so a few years back. Hopefully the cancer is contained and eventually excised.

#5 Sam on 05.12.19 at 3:50 pm

Ryan L thanks for the reply . 91% of stock pickers can’t beat the market-what it tells us , not surprisingly, is we are not all created equal– 9% beat the index less fees

It’s a skill set

#6 BlogDog123 on 05.12.19 at 3:51 pm

What’s that thing the CRA can do, a lifestyle audit or whatever it’s called… Where they look at the assets you have vs. your tax return and say “no way you can afford this mega mansion and high-end car on based on your T4”.

Does this not apply, or this BC-NDP thing goes too far in peeking at a specific asset and not your annual income… ?

#7 Carole James Uber-Fan on 05.12.19 at 4:02 pm

Personally I don’t see anything wrong with UWOs ( it’s constitutional btw, article 33, mic drop) as long as they aren’t weaponized against political opponents and there’s a minimum amiunt like 5~6 million to avoid targeting tthe middle class.

#8 Cristian on 05.12.19 at 4:08 pm

“The idea behind such a power is that someone is guilty until proven innocent.”

Those who can explain where they got their money shouldn’t fear, should they? I know I don’t. Why would anybody be “unwilling (for any reason) to reveal the source of the funds”? Unless there’s something fishy, of course?
Do I feel that my civil liberties are crushed? Not at all.

#9 Dolce Vita on 05.12.19 at 4:15 pm

Committee Decision Making.

When it goes well, everyone’s responsible.

When it goes bad, no one’s responsible.

It’s not the people from BC’s fault, it’s not the Government’s fault, so it must be somebody else’s fault (the farther away they are from home the better; oddly, the converse seems to work for experts)?

Let the blame games begin…civil liberties and all.

The phases of YVR RE:

1. Enthusiasm ✓
2. Disillusionment ✓
3. Panic ✓
4. Search for the guilty ✓
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Praise and honors for the non-participants

#10 Nonplused on 05.12.19 at 4:17 pm

I’ve long suspected the BC market was being used to launder money, but I think most of it comes from criminal activity within Canada (drugs, prostitution, etc.). Now that pot is legal I suspect that the amount of money that needs to be laundered from BC’s “forestry operations” will decline significantly.

Whatever money has come from China is not necessarily the result of criminal activity either here or there. There are a lot of wealthy people in China who came to their wealth in legals ways. So I don’t think one can conclude that all foreign money is laundered money. And China has pretty tight capital controls so any money coming from there likely has government approval and is therefore not the result of something the Chinese government considers illegal.

Civil forfeiture is already a huge problem in the US with police seizing cash, cars, houses, anything they want really, just because they suspect the cash was “involved” with a criminal activity, so it’s not a surprise to see the trend moving northward. And the fun part is they don’t even need to charge anyone with a crime! I read one story of a bloke who was going to buy a used car so he had a bunch of cash with him, got pulled over and searched, and the police took the cash! Or if you try and cross the Canada/US boarder with $10,001 prepare for extensive questioning and possible seizure. The assumption seems to be that anyone who has a large amount of cash is up to no good. But the people who are up to no good probably aren’t going to declare any cash they are carrying. Why stop at one crime?

Anyway the concept of “innocent until proven guilty” is quickly becoming a quaint memory.

And I find it interesting that just when the NDP want to start seizing assets they conveniently come up with a report justifying the activity.

#11 Jay Currie on 05.12.19 at 4:20 pm

The BC housing market is fracked and one of the reasons was the boom in offshore “investment”. This led to a pretty significant over-investment in certain areas of Vancouver which drove prices through the roof. And it led to houses being treated as financial instruments rather than as homes.

The desire to “do something” is driven by the fact that while one “empty” house is no big deal, an entire neighbourhood in which 20-40% of the houses are empty ceases to be much of a neighbourhood. There are actual social consequences to the financialization of housing.

Now, for reasons having little to do with the taxes and transparency requirements, the Westside of Vancouver and West Van and the luxury market, in general, is in freefall. There is a long way to drop before the financial instruments become homes again. But the abandonment of BC as a destination for overseas money, legitimate and illegitimate, means that the speculative pressure is coming off the market.

This is a good thing for the people who actually live in BC.

#12 Aspirant Lotus leaf land Dweller on 05.12.19 at 4:27 pm

Unexplained Wealth Orders ( UWOs) are a fact of life in the UK and are becoming increasingly prevalent in the fight against cross border capital flight that is illegally undertaken.

Get used to it Garth – this is not a matter of left versus right; it’s about transparency, equity and fairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/wife-of-mcmafia-banker-with-16m-harrods-spending-habit-named

#13 Decker X on 05.12.19 at 4:34 pm

The reason people from Calgary are caught in the web of the Dippers Tax is because no one in any party has the guts to say ‘Chinese Citizens are not Canadian Citizens” in the same breath , for fear of being ostracized from “Planet Loony Leftist”.

Obviously if foreign nationals are breaking the law they should be fingered, like that Donald Southerland character on ‘The Body Snatchers”. In fact most governments around the world do that, deal with foreigners separate, nothing wrong with it, they are foreign they are not a separate race, it’s nothing personal.

“The laws have done much to isolate the province and, if market activity is any indication, drive away capital.”

You might have said that between the Liberals and the NDP they have done more to drive away capital in a country since Castro took over Cuba. It’s really ugly, really ugly, but most Canadians seem oblivious to anything with more than four letters in a word.

On that, CIBC confirms a forecast of a CAD in the 60’s by year end. That will even screw with Drake and his massive private airliner he bought to flit around and sing songs about ‘climate change’. “WHO YA GONNA BE WHEN ITS ALL OVER”, WARBLES DRAKE. Turns out Drake will be as big a hypocrite as all the rest of the holier than thou climate carpet baggers. Al Gore actually keeps a low profile on his ancient guzzling 747 !! Real hero Drake, worship, gush.

Being honest and real about climate and race/citizenship would save us hundreds of billions a year. That could alleviate a whole lot of crises around the world not to mention build clean water infrastructure for our indigenous brothers and sisters in Canada for a start.

And maybe if Vivienne Krausse was advising a PM instead of Gerald Butts far less smoke would have been blown up our collective patoots and sanity with thruth would have provided much more benefit than what Butts etc have flushed down the climate carpet baggers golden toilet that seems to center within Justin Trudeaus forehead. .

Is that sucking waste what causes Justins eyebrows to drift?

#14 Sad on 05.12.19 at 4:34 pm

Thats right attack the NDP and no mention of the corrupted BC Liberals that got us here. LOL Garth.

#15 Gerry on 05.12.19 at 4:37 pm

Looks like Garth is in the minority of the people who think housing should be a casino style investment, grab as many properties as you can, ignore the criminal element who park their money in real estate, instead of thinking that housing is a right and working taxpaying citizens have a right to an affordable home. To Garth, housing is no different than commodities trading on an exchange, how dare the Government interfere with my desire to profit from housing!

Shelter is a right. A house is not. – Garth

#16 Stone on 05.12.19 at 4:38 pm

The “privacy of capital”? Come on now. That’s like saying TREB is entitled to keep sales information private. I usually agree with you Garth but I think this time you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth.

If the NDP gouvernment in BC were doing something that breaches societal norms, I’m fairly certain they would get the boot. Strangely enough, seems like the electorate are quite satisfied with them.

And this commentary coming from a 1%er. I’m not shaking in my boots. Transparency is good (when the playing field is level).

I do appreciate you raised the topic. It merits serious discussion.

You were doing fine until you called me a 1%er. That didn’t keep you from coming to benefit from my free blog. Talk about hypocrisy. – Garth

#17 gattu on 05.12.19 at 4:40 pm

Economists will tell you that the marginal demand and marginal supply determines price, not average demand and average supply. On the other hand, the lower transaction volumes are, the weaker price discovery becomes. Stephen Punwasi offers the opposite narrative to Garth’s. This is a complex topic, and the rush to judgment by “experts” on both sides only reveals their respective biases.

#18 Basil Exposition on 05.12.19 at 4:44 pm

Beginning to wonder if Canada will become the new Colombia? Cronyism, corporate bribery, and interference in the judiciary. Politically motivated vendettas against anyone interfering with pork barrel politics. A national Police force that can’t seem to conduct a proper investigation into anything of consequence. A Toronto Mayor scapegoating legitimate gun owners instead of taking meaningful action against drug dealing street gangs in public housing. And now, rampant money laundering through real estate in our major cities. Netflix could begin shooting a new chapter in its Narcos series in Canada very soon.

#19 Cherry Picker on 05.12.19 at 5:00 pm

A community/society is better when you have more home owners and fewer renters. Renters have little skin in the game to take care of the properties they live in. The more the BC Dippers do to restrict non-local ownership and increase affordability so prices get closer to the Canadian average, the better.

Generalize much? – Garth

#20 Stone on 05.12.19 at 5:07 pm

#16 Stone on 05.12.19 at 4:38 pm
The “privacy of capital”? Come on now. That’s like saying TREB is entitled to keep sales information private. I usually agree with you Garth but I think this time you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth.

If the NDP gouvernment in BC were doing something that breaches societal norms, I’m fairly certain they would get the boot. Strangely enough, seems like the electorate are quite satisfied with them.

And this commentary coming from a 1%er. I’m not shaking in my boots. Transparency is good (when the playing field is level).

I do appreciate you raised the topic. It merits serious discussion.

You were doing fine until you called me a 1%er. That didn’t keep you from coming to benefit from my free blog. Talk about hypocrisy. – Garth

———

I was talking about me, not you regarding that. You’re not the only 1%er, after all. LOL. My point was that I have no issue should the gouvernment come asking me to confirm my source of wealth. Easy peasy.

#21 Reality is stark on 05.12.19 at 5:09 pm

The whole BC economy is structured on the wealth effect of an inflated housing market. It is only when provincial tax revenues implode that the government realizes their folly.
No matter they will go to the Feds with their hands out looking for money. That is called “management”.
That is how Kathleen Wynne “managed” Ontario.
It’s what happens when you hire a child to do a man’s job.
The other trick they try is to borrow their way to prosperity. Canadians elect idiots.

#22 espressobob on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

#5 Sam

The problem with this theory is knowing in advance the next big hot shot fund manager in advance?

These odds are not in anyone’s favour while index investors being the benchmark quietly sit back and rake in gains.

It’s hell rebalancing mind you. But some of us have to do it.

#23 not 1st on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

Canada is obviously a corrupt little socialist cabal with tentacles emanating everywhere even into our incompetent RCMP.

Explaining wealth to a dipper is impossible anyway. They don’t understand the concept.

#24 Joe Vancouver on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

Escaped Communism from Eastern Europe 30 years ago. The mindset of Canadians is becoming quite concerning.

#25 Junior Juice on 05.12.19 at 5:21 pm

Jesus, the negative commentary on the blog can be overwhelming. Criticism of government is called democracy. Personal attacks are not. Financial illiteracy plagues our country, particularly the young, and here we have a man and his colleagues providing free advice in the face of overwhelming reason not to. Keep up the negativity and we all lose. If you don’t like what you’re reading go elsewhere. Garth has written plenty of posts I disagree with, and I appreciate those just as much as the many more I have have read in concurrence. If you can’t understand why, you’re probably one of the ones that would be better off elsewhere.

Garth, please keep it up – find it within you to ignore the riffraff.

#26 akashic record on 05.12.19 at 5:27 pm

If money laundering will be proven, the next question to ask would be why it was not dealt with before. Was it ignored, because nobody had the appetite to get the racist sticker? Is the eagerness to label what ends up to throw civil liberties under the bus?

#27 nita graves on 05.12.19 at 5:27 pm

to Christian # 8 -Why of course you don’t care – you don’t ave any money and you know nothing of property rights.
You’re gem! We need more like you!.

#28 Wacky John on 05.12.19 at 5:30 pm

In the deep south of the US of A, so I have often read, the cops can stop you on the highway, claim they saw something suspicious, and confiscate you money, your phone, your car and all its contents and all without recourse. Nice fringe benefits in those states! Is BC becoming the deep west of Canada?

#29 Edward on 05.12.19 at 5:33 pm

Now that the BC government wants to tighten the screws on dirty money and criminal finances (the right thing to do), that money will be forced into other areas on Canada.
The federal government also needs to beef-up RCMP & CRA resources to stomp out this criminal activity.

#30 Hawk on 05.12.19 at 5:34 pm

Simple rule for any nation:

More government = More Problems
Less government = Less Problems

But people never learn…………..the very Californians, that are fleeing that once beautiful state, bring the same toxic ideology with them to the freedom loving states that they are running away to. – (It would be incredibly funny, if it wasn’t so sad)

#31 The Real Mark on 05.12.19 at 5:38 pm

The whole narrative, that of money laundering, being fomented by the clowns at Glow-Bull (fake) “News”, and cheered on by the NDP, is supported with very little, if any evidence. It is the absolute worst kind of journalism — sowing dissent and hatred between Canadians, and clearly an effort to deflect blame from the real culprits of Canada’s out of control RE bubble — banks, speculators, and the federal government itself through the nearly $1T in speculation they’ve entered into through the CMHC subprime mortgage insurance program.

Didn’t we learn the lesson, in many episodes previous, that scapegoating an entire race is an absolutely disgusting thing to do? I know, for myself, I’m not going to stand idly by while Canadians of Chinese ethnicity are smeared publicly by politicians trying to score a few votes, or a failing “news” organization trying to revive its ratings by spreading such dishonest propaganda.

#32 Millenial Cto on 05.12.19 at 5:39 pm

“Far more consequential were low interest rates, over-borrowing, rampant speculation, FOMO and a cultural obsession with real estate in most of BC.”

It is disingenuous to separate one from the other. If it is true that significant amounts of illegitimate money have been flowing in, this has distorted the market for decades and subsequently influenced the psychology of locals. The factors included in the quote above would serve to amplify any distorting effects.

I await with great anticipation the actions of the provincial and federal government. The mere discussion of UWO must be making those who are using Canada as an escape plan from their nefarious international activities fearful. If the B.C. economy craters as a result of their withdrawal, good riddance. I’ll be well positioned to pick up the pieces – along with many other responsible tax paying citizens who have eschewed debt during this irrational bubble.

#33 Flop... on 05.12.19 at 5:45 pm

Last night I had one of my weirdest experiences in Vancouver since I arrived in 2002.

My In-laws had just passed the 50 year wedding anniversary, Golden, so my wife and I decided to take them out for a nice dinner to mark the occasion.

We chose the Harbour Centre revolving restaurant and the weather did not disappoint.

We decided instead of taking the car and worrying about parking, and having too many beverages to drive it was a safer bet to take transit.

Let me just state that when I first arrived in Canada all those years ago I spent the first 3 months living in a hostel on the Downtown Eastside and walked amongst the zombies everyday and have taken transit through there many times.

Last night was the worst I had ever seen it.

The bus could not stop at several bus stops because of “police incidents.”

To be chowing down on a $50 lamb shank while watching the sunset over English Bay 45 minutes later among people at the other end of the wealth spectrum and everyone in-between, is something I am still struggling to process to this minute.

I thought we were going out for a fancy dinner.

We ended up seeing a real life version of Beauty and the Beast…

M44BC

#34 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.12.19 at 5:50 pm

Real estate in the Lower Brainland has been turned upside down over the past decade.
People earning good money watched the real estate prices reach unexplainable, unattainable, insane levels.

The BC Libs ignored many angry voters and allowed the BC economy to become the “wild west” ( the New York Times dubbed us that. Not me).

So here we are.
At the beginnings of the ensuing shite storm of investigative revelations about how much money flowed into BC on a yearly basis. $5 billion? 7 billion ?

I applaud what the NDP are doing for the simple fact that the Liberals did worse than nothing.
They shut criminal money laundering investigations down and disbanded the police squads that were proving there was a problem.

This new proposal, “Unexplained Wealth Orders” while egregious, doesnt surprise me one bit.
I suspect 95% of taxpayers, will not fall into the category of “Unexplained wealth” in anything we own.
Last time I checked my 5 year old truck wasnt worth $400,000.00 and I didnt pay cash for it.
Nor did I purchase a $2,000,000.00 house with a duffel bag of cash or a Casino Cheque.

That being said.

I fully expect some police officers and Crown Prosecutors to abuse their authority and seize assests from the innocent.
It wouldnt be the first time and it wont be the last time an unaccountable govt worker, protected from a personal lawsuit, abused their authority.

UWO’s….
It should create work for thousands of salivating lawyers.

And if publicized seizures sends the drug cartels, the overseas cash, and other shady money laundering scum packing….

Good riddance.

P.S.
I was driving home this afternoon at 2:00 pm and watched 3 separate Real estate agents hammering “For Sale” signs into the ground at 2:45pm.
A year ago at 2pm these “Rock Stars” would have been pulling the signs out and popping them into their trunks….
Times are tough and after a “Charbonneau” style Commission into corruption…..they will get tougher.

#35 Ace Goodheart on 05.12.19 at 5:53 pm

RE: Civil forfeiture: This is a big thing in B.C. The Civil Forfeiture office has been doing really well.

They have found a number of lucrative new forfeiture methods. Among them:

-Seizing luxury cars when the drivers are ticketed for traffic infractions.

-Seizing the houses of persons convicted of criminal offences, even if the purchase of the house has nothing to do with the criminal offence (for example, a man convicted of a sexual assault had his condo seized, with the rationale being that the condo could have been used to commit other sexual assaults that he has not yet been caught for).

-Seizing houses and cash, when cash is found in a safe in the house. This is a big one. Quite often, people for one reason or another, do not trust banks. So when police enter a house for one reason or another (usually a domestic dispute) and find a safe, they seize it and open it. If there is cash inside, then the Civil Forfeiture office seizes the cash, and the house, as who would have so much cash around, unless it was from criminal activities?

-seizing apartment buildings where tenants have been convicted of drug offences – another big one. It is virtually impossible now to evict a problem tenant in B.C., however, if they are using or dealing drugs, and they get convicted, you lose your entire apartment building, even if you tried (and failed) to evict them.

The list goes on.

The interesting thing about the list, is the Civil Forfeiture Board needs at least, at the very minimum, some form of suspicion of some kind of offence, committed by someone, in order to seize the assets.

They need something. Even just a whiff. Just a little. Something to hang their hat on.

If you introduce Unexplained Wealth Orders, then you take that little hat rack away.

They can just take stuff, whenever they want. No reason needed.

Right now, they don’t need much of a reason at all……

#36 Jay on 05.12.19 at 5:55 pm

About time, finally a government with the salt to step up. No issues from BC. Most support and rejoice this news.

#37 yvr_lurker on 05.12.19 at 5:55 pm

“Of course. It’s illegal. Criminals need to be stopped and punished. We have many laws on the books now enabling agencies to do just that. ”

“The new beneficial ownership registry is further proof Dippers believe your neighbours, colleagues, friends, workmates or employer should have the right to know what you own. Once that’s public, of course, it can be taxed or taken – if you have too much, or obtained it secretly.”

———————-

First of all, I’ll eat all the grass in the field if the NDP try to pass a new law for a draconian civil forfeiture of property, and as you imply seizing houses of innocent citizens. It won’t happen and you are using your usual tactic of fear-mongering on this non-issue as a way of deflecting from the main focus of the NDP Gov’t and Eby providing a detailed forensics of the effect of money laundering on our society. As a matter of record, I would of course not support a draconian law on forfeiture.

However, let’s instead discuss the latest findings:

1. 5% effect of dirty money is an underestimate (as stated in the report) and was only for 2018 and applies to all of BC not just Vancouver and Victoria. Clearly the effect on YVR is much larger than 5% as the fraction of dirty money filtering into the more remote parts of our province is much smaller. Secondly, what about 2004? 2015? 2016? 2017? etc.., when prices in YVR were gallopping away at double-digit increases year over year. My guess here is that the effect was much larger than 5%. As a study just emphasized, housing prices are always set at the margins. If some dude laundering money is happy to pay 20% over asking, it sets the price for the next comparable.

2. Oh don’t worry: “We have many laws on the books now enabling agencies to do just that”. As pointed out recently in the news there was not one single solitary RCMP officer whose job it was in BC to investigate money laundering and bring charges. One can have all sorts of fancy laws on the books, but if no Gov’t resources are put forth to bring criminals to justice it is a big utter fail.

3. The 5% estimate of money laundering did not include the effect of purchases done by shell corporations, and other devices used to hide true ownership of properties by offshore buyers. Likely many of these purchases were done to get money out of china or by financial crooks (to circumvent Chinese control of restricting the flow of money outside). I see no problem whatesover in closing this loophole and in having the true ownership of a property in the public domain for tax purposes or whatever. 95% of us having nothing to hide; no worries here, and I will happily register our place. Our Gov’t is not run by Stalin or Castro and nobody is going to seize your house. Full transparency on this will discourage those laundering huge amounts in a secret way.

Canada needs to have a concerted effort in wiping this out nationwide. If only BC continues putting stricter laws and insists on more transparency, the problem will just move elsewhere in Canada. We need to make it clear that Canada is no longer open to this sort of “business” or “parasitic investment”.

#38 JSS on 05.12.19 at 5:59 pm

Happy mother’s day to all you money oriented blog dogs. May you all have a mother of a day!

#39 not 1st on 05.12.19 at 5:59 pm

These MSM articles on Doug Ford would be hilarious if they weren’t so sad.

Articles with headlines like; Why does Ford hate Ontario, is he trying to destroy our future, is he killing democracy, has he declared war on Toronto.

Lets rewind. Ontario has a debt of $350B more than half from the last govt. Its the largest sovereign debt in the modern world per capita and its still growing. And you don’t want him to make any cuts? Seriously? Give your head a shake.

#40 TurnerNation on 05.12.19 at 5:59 pm

Budding SJW here. Repeating words I’ve learned.

This blog must now declare a ClImAtE EmErGeNcY and help curtail all non essential human activity, save war-making. This means: get rid of all Pets, Motorbikes, and Boats. Especially the large ones. Raise gas prices via tax to $3/litre everywhere. Bring industry to a halt.
For our future!!!! [emphasis added]!!

:-)

GE.US stock recently notched a low price of…6.66. Throwback to recent all-time SPX low of 666 in 2008. I get it, Tomorrow I’m buying GE as long term hold in my RSP. Joining the elites, buying assets for pennies on the dollar

#41 gimme stuff on 05.12.19 at 6:00 pm

#104 Smoking Man on 05.09.19 at 12:33 am

I just smoked my new nabours. They have rated out two times for smoking on my patio. Tonight I nailed them….

Hes beging for forgiveness, I said mistakes happen. But I did see some one smoking up stairs. Those people are wierd. Must be Democrats.

He knocks on their door. Mumbling sounds then thay start screaming at him.

Let’s see who gets evicted first.
Smoking Man
——–
Ah, basement renter – taking so many risks…

#42 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.12.19 at 6:03 pm

@#21 Stark naked Reality
“Canadians elect idiots….”
*****

Limited choices and we aren’t allowed to elect “None of the Above”

#43 Redge Mackleworth on 05.12.19 at 6:03 pm

Easy way to avoid is to move to rural BC and rent? Vancouver seems so unpredictable. New taxes and regs popping up left and right. How can you even plan?

#44 Chaddywack on 05.12.19 at 6:04 pm

Actually I agree with with the NDP is doing in BC especially with UWOs.

If you legitimately bought a house with “clean” money it should be pretty easy to prove where it came from. CRA does “lifestyle audits” currently where they will look at the cost of your house and your cars and ask how you can live on $12,000 a year while collecting CCB for your kids and GST cheques….how is this any different?

A lot of people in Vancouver are angry and seeing rich kids driving around with an “N” on the back of their Bugatti thumbing their noses at the system. I don’t blame Vancouverites one bit for their anger.

Btw I’m a generally conservative voter who voted NDP last election and am very happy with what David Eby and company are doing on this front.

#45 cmj on 05.12.19 at 6:05 pm

5% increase in real estate has been the result of laundering money in BC. Have we already forgotten that real estate was starting to decline BEFORE the provincial and federal governments intervened? FOMO action has scarred many Canadians who are swimming in debt, parents postponing their retirement to financially help their adult children….
Yet the governments want to take full credit for the long awaited downward spiral. The decline is having effects on jobs, consumer spending etc. The consequences are complex

#46 yvr_lurker on 05.12.19 at 6:14 pm

#31 Real Mark

—–

Why don’t you actually read the actual report before you spout off nonsense. Your mind and eyes appear wired-shut on this issue. is all the evidence gathered biased and woefully incorrect? Pages and pages of documentation to be discounted in one quick Real Mark statement? Go give your head a shake and read the report yourself.

#47 Alberta Ed on 05.12.19 at 6:18 pm

Judging by the 1500+ overwhelmingly negative responses to this story on CBC’s website, the Dippers’ latest tax grab will not go down well. Good thing, because the next step would be holding up gas stations in the name of protecting the environment.

#48 -=jwk=- on 05.12.19 at 6:19 pm

Single family residential real estate doesn’t need Capital inflows, they need single family owners. As a general rule large capitla inflow just ruin the marekt for actual families.
There are NO laws to enforce anything w.r.t to residential housing because historicaly it didn’t neet to be regulated. You were a family, you bought a house. family got bigger, bought a bigger house. Now offshore money floods in, pays cash for multiple properties, rents them and declares no income, etc, etc. The market is broken. Bring on the UWO….

#49 Re-Cowtown on 05.12.19 at 6:20 pm

“The idea behind such a power is that someone is guilty until proven innocent. The basic principle that authorities cannot search or seize your assets without due process is tossed on the rubbish heap of uninformed, prejudiced and envious public opinion. The privacy of capital is being shattered in BC as the province drifts further to the left. The new beneficial ownership registry is further proof Dippers believe your neighbours, colleagues, friends, workmates or employer should have the right to know what you own. Once that’s public, of course, it can be taxed or taken – if you have too much, or obtained it secretly.”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Same thing in the US. The democrats are trying to break every law possible that stands between them and Trump’s tax returns. Funny how the left always thinks the same way about stuff. The left thinks that they’re always entitled to someone else’s private property, but no one is entitled to theirs.

#50 -=jwk=- on 05.12.19 at 6:20 pm

Actually all you really need is a tax treaty with China – anyone buying with Chinese sourced funds will have their title registered in China as well. Instant end to the problem…

#51 Kenny H on 05.12.19 at 6:33 pm

To most people this undermines some of the fundamentals of the rule of law, namely the presumption of innocence by means of imposing “reverse onus” on the accused.

Also, #18 nailed it!

#52 oh bouy on 05.12.19 at 6:40 pm

@#38 not 1st on 05.12.19 at 5:59 pm
These MSM articles on Doug Ford would be hilarious if they weren’t so sad.

Articles with headlines like; Why does Ford hate Ontario, is he trying to destroy our future, is he killing democracy, has he declared war on Toronto.

Lets rewind. Ontario has a debt of $350B more than half from the last govt. Its the largest sovereign debt in the modern world per capita and its still growing. And you don’t want him to make any cuts? Seriously? Give your head a shake.
_______________________

sadly he’s spending more than he’s cutting.
cons and libs – 2 sides of the same coin.

#53 Lost...but not leased on 05.12.19 at 6:41 pm

UWO et al

….. = nothing more than the incremental creep of Communism.

In US……the” right to bear arms” is being slowly co-opted like the boiling frog. The US simply bans one class/category of weapons at a time all the while maintaining peoples “rights to bear arms” are still intact.

UWO has the potential to be abused via a warrantless fishing expedition…much like the gun registry effectively allowed police entrance into one’s home without a search warrant…or the new DUI laws where one has no rights.

One big Commie republic being cobbled together while we sleep..

#54 fishman on 05.12.19 at 6:56 pm

First of all the amount of “hot money ‘ going into local real estate is rather paltry. Gang bangers, criminals, dope guys are relatively poor. They live the lifestyle, cash, cars, girls, lots of gym time, no job but no wealth behind them. Living in rented penthouses & going home to mommy for good eats & laundry. I mean there’s a few rich criminals, very few.
The vast amount of “hot money” is transferred through the banks from offshore. Persia, China, Russia, Arab countries mostly & that means government connections . There’s always a few hard core criminals sneak in, but the lions share is government payola. Us bloggies go for Garth’s diversification portfolio, get bonds; government grifters buy a spot far away from the swindled peasants.
The Dippers are jawboning the market down with their threat of forfeiture without proof of legitimate funds. They do that to us citizens now by networthing & nailing us for non payment of income taxes. But they can’t do that to an offshore guy. But what if the Dippers go the China or Persia & say Wing or Reza here bought 5 houses on the west side . Did they pay their taxes? Ouch. All of a sudden Vancouver”s starting to look like that Sask. farmers field with all the geese & grain on it, from a distance. But up close its decoys & rednecks with guns.

#55 Lost...but not leased on 05.12.19 at 7:04 pm

As noted in my last post..

UWO = VERY D-A-N-G-E-R-O-U-S !!!!

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2019/04/06/civil-forfeiture-laws-bc-problematic/

QUOTE:

When British Columbia’s government introduced its plan to overhaul civil forfeiture in the province, many heralded this as a change that would positively address concerns over money laundering in casinos and the real estate market. Others criticized the regime, calling it unconstitutional. Their biggest complaint was that the process reversed the onus in the proceedings.

Currently, in order for property to be seized under civil forfeiture laws, the Crown must show that the asset was used in the commission of an offence, or derived from the commission of an offence. The classic examples of this are vehicles used by dial-a-dope couriers, cash from drug sales, or houses purchased with the proceeds of crime laundered through the real estate market.

The problem has been that this is often difficult for the Crown to establish, and defence lawyers have taken to arguing that violations of Charter rights in the investigations should lead to exclusion of the evidence in civil proceedings – so making it easier for the Crown to prosecute these claims was something many wanted.

But reversing the onus may go too far.

And while there is certainly merit in the complaint that putting a burden on a person to prove that their assets were not derived from or used to commit unlawful activity, this is far from the most significant concern in the legislation that is currently being debated in the legislature.

Indeed, given the state of the public outcry about money laundering in British Columbia, it is likely that a constitutional challenge would withstand scrutiny given the pressing and substantial concern that it is addressing. Laws in Canada are permitted to violate the Charter where they address a real concern, and do so in a proportional way that minimally impairs Charter rights. In other contexts in administrative proceedings in British Columbia, the reverse onus has been found to be constitutionally valid. So the people challenging the law on this basis will have an uphill battle.

But there are more problematic aspects of this law that have had little attention, and have caused little outcry.

The biggest concern is how the police will now be able to seize the vehicles of any driver who fails to stop “in a reasonable time” without any belief that they are otherwise involved in criminal activity.

Yes, the new civil forfeiture bill states that police can seize a motor vehicle, to be sold for the profit of the government, if two conditions are met:

1) the driver of the vehicle fails to stop in a reasonable time when signalled to do so by a police officer,

2) the vehicle was driven in a manner that could have caused harm to a person.

Nowhere in the legislation does it define what a “reasonable time” is to stop a vehicle, or what manner of driving will amount to driving that “could have caused harm” to a person.

Look, according to government statistics 47 people died where they were not wearing a seatbelt in the vehicle. This means that under the law, as it is drafted, if you are signalled to pull over for not wearing a seatbelt, and instead of stopping right away you drive the extra half block to your driveway so you’re home and parked, you could have your vehicle seized under civil forfeiture laws.

This is the very definition of giving police too much power to seize vehicles and abuse the civil forfeiture process. And yet there is no massive criminal profiteering associated with a person who drives in this fashion.

This law also exposes women, visible minorities, and Indigenous people to greater abuse by the police. Women are frequently told to drive to a well-lit area before stopping, even when signalled by a police officer. Visible minorities and Indigenous people may not feel comfortable stopping in a dark, unfrequented area given police abuse and racial profiling concerns. And yet, if they are stopped for speeding or distracted driving – both leading causes of road deaths – these individuals then face losing their vehicles through civil forfeiture.

And this is where the burden shift becomes the most problematic. The law presumes in that circumstance that you are driving the vehicle for a criminal purpose. As though the reason the vulnerable person drove a few extra blocks was so that they could conceal their thousands of fentanyl pills.

Oh, but it gets worse.

The law also clearly violates human rights by treating individuals who have previously been found not guilty of an offence for reason of a mental disorder or defect as though they have been found guilty. A new definition for “convicted” has been included in the law, that now presumes that those who have been previously convicted of criminal organization offences are still involved in those criminal organizations. And this applies to people who have been found not guilty because of a mental illness.

Yes, the law presumes your guilt where you were found not guilty because of a bona fide mental health issue. And that so-called conviction now follows you into the civil forfeiture process. The government can now take the belongings of people who have struggled with legitimate health concerns, preventing their rehabilitation and exposing some of the most vulnerable people in society to potential for state abuses.

This should not stand. It is appalling that the government would draft legislation that clearly makes our most vulnerable sectors of the population: women, the mentally ill, and visible minorities and Indigenous people, targets for government cash revenue.

And for those who say that we can trust the police to only enforce civil forfeiture laws against the real criminals, they need look no further than the United States, where such abuses run rampant.

For those that think that the innocent will be exonerated in the hearing, they should bear in mind that currently legal aid does not cover representation at civil forfeiture proceedings. And individuals who are most at risk under this law are also least likely to be able to afford costly legal representation. Plus, what value is there in hiring a lawyer and paying that lawyer hundreds or thousands of dollars to recover a vehicle with a value of only a few thousand dollars anyway? Most lawyers will advise these clients to cut their losses. And the government knows that. It’s already operating on those tactics.

These new civil forfeiture powers are going to affect innocent people, but mostly innocent people who cannot speak up for themselves or who are significantly disadvantaged against state interests. Innocent, vulnerable people will be hurt by these laws. And that’s what should outrage everyone.

=======================

In essence..

….the bar has been set so low it is literally non existent…..based on “sky-is falling” rationale…everybody is discriminated against equally aka unilateral SOL…and primed for abuse via the subjective calls by police , prosecutors and Gov’t.

#56 Ustabe on 05.12.19 at 7:07 pm

I like it when all you east coast elites chose to comment on matters British Columbia.

Its cute how you feel you know what is going on out here through the fog of your media which, in this case, apparently isn’t fake news.

Its amusing to watch as your perceptions change to best accommodate your preconceived notions of how things should be.

Granted cleaning up Christie Clark’s mess isn’t always going to be pretty but I can tell you this…the money laundering isn’t just confined to BC. Have fun with Dougie and lets see if you can clean up your own back yard too.

eh?

That was ugly. The issue here is one oflaw and civil rights. Not your navel. – Garth

#57 Dazed and CONfused on 05.12.19 at 7:11 pm

#2 BG on 05.12.19 at 3:41 pm
“….I thought the presumption of innocence was protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms…..”
______________________________

Sorry, but the NDP doesn’t have a monopoly on trampling the Constitutional Rights of Canadians.

Ontario’s own vindictive high-school-dropout Conservative premier began shotgunning Notwithstanding Clauses the moment he took office.
Doug Frod: “For The Sheeple”

#58 old dinosaur on 05.12.19 at 7:18 pm

It’s called Socialism people
Get used to it
Many of us said beware and you scoffed.
You are the enemy because you worked hard, saved your money, invested well and became affluent.

Now you are a target.

Consider your options – your family’s wealth depends on it.

Most wealthy people have escape routes from Canada.
You may be wise to consider for yourselves.

Older folks like us have lived through and seen the evils of Socialism which is now disguised as Progressivism…

It’ll only get more evil as politicians lose grip on the masses.

Bogeymen everywhere

It is what socialism always does
When they sense danger they develop enemies.

#59 HT on 05.12.19 at 7:20 pm

This has already existed in tax law. Prove the source of bank deposits, otherwise it’s taxed as income/sales. Prove how your house, 3 cars, and yacht were paid for, otherwise it’s a net worth assessment. How is this any different?

#60 yvr_lurker on 05.12.19 at 7:22 pm

Respectful, wide-ranging discussion on the topic of the posting is encouraged, and will not be censored.

——

I did not see that my first comment, with a different narrative than yours (although I do agree that UWO is a dangerous concept… but is a red-herring..), was offensive and should be censored. The second comment most likely yes. However, I guess it is your blog your rules….. I don’t think you will win this one… NDP has widespread support…

#61 AB on 05.12.19 at 7:31 pm

BC is going down the tubes. So sorry for the innocent folks there caught up in this mess. Let the chips fall where they may.

#62 Linda on 05.12.19 at 7:32 pm

I just shake my head when I see posts supporting the implementation of UWO’s for any reason. Give your head a shake, people. Any implementation can & will eventually effect you or someone you know, regardless of circumstances. Governments require income & a ‘law’ that permits confiscation of assets without proof of criminal activity is an open sesame to permit the government to loot at will. What next? The modern day version of Ford Falcons scooping people off the street? After all, once one civil liberty is tossed aside – with cheers from the idiots who think that assault upon civil rights will never apply to them – it is easy to add on a few more restrictions. Or confiscations in the name of ‘the public good’.

Given that we are not supposed to discriminate on the grounds of sex, race, religion etc. I must suppose that the apparent desire of others to express nasty behavior towards others has resulted in this targeted assault on ‘those that have’. And if those folks also happen to belong to a particular ethnic group, sexual orientation or religion well, that just a little bonus for the haters, now isn’t it?

#63 Tony on 05.12.19 at 7:41 pm

Re: #45 Alberta Ed on 05.12.19 at 6:18 pm

All the negative responses are from B.C. home owners. They don’t count. The NDP’s job is to bring back affordable housing to the province. This is a mandate that should have been done ages ago.

#64 BlorgDorg on 05.12.19 at 7:48 pm

It seems somewhat hypocritical that, in one post, our host criticizes the political polarization happening in the US, and then in the next post, presents money laundering and real estate overvaluation as a left-vs-right issue.

Maybe someone can explain how a conservative provincial government would act differently to address these problems. The OPC haven’t addressed it at all in Ontario, but surely catching criminals and improving housing affordability aren’t partisan issues.

Suck, blow, indeed.

#65 N on 05.12.19 at 7:51 pm

Albertans struggling to enter the real-estate market have at least two chances to win a home this year.

A house south of Calgary and a historic bed and breakfast near the United States border, both valued at about $1.7 million, are up for grabs.

All one needs to do is pay an entry fee and submit an essay.

Owners of the two properties are among many in the province affected by a slumping real-estate market. Homes are listed for months without a single offer.

Alla Wagner, who has limited mobility after a fall, put her 5,000-square-foot (464-square-metre) house in Millarville, a hamlet in the foothills of the Canadian Rockies, up for sale last year so she could downsize to a smaller bungalow.

Her house was appraised at $3 million three years ago, she says. She first listed it at $1.9 million.

“The market is so low that I wasn’t even getting a single offer,” Wagner says. “It was very painful to watch.”

Instead of giving up, the 58-year-old decided to “think outside of the box.”

Wagner came up with a contest late last year called “Write a Letter, Win a House.” It asks people to explain how owning the home could change their lives. She set an entry fee at $25 and hoped to receive 65,000 entries to cover her investment in the house.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/win-house-alberta-homeowners-trying-140004408.html

#66 Willy H on 05.12.19 at 7:52 pm

“Government and industry stats have shown about 5% of buyers were non-residents and the dirty money report last week pegged about the same number for money laundering. That is not insignificant, but it’s also not enough to make the market. Those who did 90-95% of all deals – locals – were the ones setting prices. Now that the market’s tumbling, they’re doing it again, by stepping back.”
__ __ __

This assertion is flawed. A 5% increase in demand allegedly consisting of folks with a limitless supply of cash can and will have a major impact on real estate values in markets.

The average buyer, with normal borrowing constraints cannot compete against another buyer (foreign or domestic) desperately trying to legitimize millions of dollars by parking it in sexy Pacific coast real estate.

We need comparative data. Are the % foreign-buyers (and money launderer’s) in Vancouver market the norm for most North American cities? OR is Vancouver more like Sydney, Australia or London, England?

We need perspective.

Sadly, it’s in short supply these days.

#67 millmech on 05.12.19 at 8:03 pm

It is almost like this was a setup from the get go, for more of our rights to be taken away as Garth said. Ask any one in banking any realtor any post office worker doing moneygrams and they would fill out the FINTRAC form and send it away.
The police did nothing, no one cared, now they want to take away your assets on a whim because they were too lazy and incompetent before.
Really just look at the information coming out from the Federal Government, not a single person dedicated to money laundering on the west coast of Canada rather than say “we will review the information sent in and act on it ” they are just going to seize assets on a notion. I will put money on this” when revenues dry up from a slowing economy/real estate market you will have more liberal interpretations of this UWOs”. Got rent money from criminal, we are taking your house, your employer engaged in criminal activity, seize your income as proceeds of crime. We are becoming more like China every day
By the way why should there be a public registry of who owns what, I know many people paying support who are licking their chops as now their ex spouse can not hide their wealth accumulation, so now of course hubby can pay for little Suzies equestrian schooling as he “owns” three houses. The same with people who do not wish family/children to be aware of their holdings to be emotionally blackmailed for money.
This also makes it super easy for criminals to figure out who to victimize, as why go after the family with one house when you can get obviously more for ransom from the family with five or ten houses.

#68 georgist on 05.12.19 at 8:07 pm

Who wants to live in a world where the state has the technical power to destroy you via the law?

We already do.

Who wants to live in a world where we can’t afford anything and are slaves to bankers?

We already do.

Who wants the latter fixed, and wants to support politicians actually doing this?

Me.

This theoretical civil liberty “right to property” guff is a disaster. You don’t have the right to extract surplus value via property, in perpetuity, across generations.

#69 millmech on 05.12.19 at 8:20 pm

#19 Cherry Picker
Why own, really do the math, most people who own pay way more in interest to the bank than the house is worth.
A $600k mortgage over 30yrs at 4.14% means you pay $450k in interest over 30yrs about $1200/mth plus property taxes and upkeep your paying around $2k/mth before you even pay your mortgage principle so why buy, you can rent the same house for $1500/mth and bank the rest, not including opportunity costs of down payment and principle repayment of almost $1600/mth, so all in your paying $3600/mth for something you can rent for $1500. The renter would have a portfolio of $2,526,826 at the end of the 30 years the home owner a depreciating asset that costs money to get money out of it.

#70 Ace Goodheart on 05.12.19 at 8:20 pm

Re#54 Ustabe:

“Have fun with Dougie”

We’re having a great time, actually.

After 15 years of being governed by Liberals, who talked about building things, and built nothing, we now have a builder in office.

We are getting…..wait for it…..SUBWAYS!

Promised these wonderful things for 15 years, but every time one would start to get planned, it would degenerate into assessments and arguments and billions of dollars of studies. Nothing would be built.

We are getting……..Beer. In supermarkets and gas stations and corner stores, like the rest of the world. No more being treated like a toddler playing with matches. The granny groups who protested loudly about the social evils of people being able to purchase alcohol whenever they liked, are strangely silent. The ominous commercials paid for by unions afraid for our safety (cough….their jobs) if someone ever bought a six pack at a gas station in Ontario…..are strangely absent this time. And the multinationals that claimed to be stronger than an elected government……are now begging at the side of the road, while strongman Ford and Co. lay down the law.

Yeah, I don’t like his politics. But who cares? He took T2 to Court over his carbon tax. The guy is a Saint. Imagine, a POLITICIAN challenging a TAX in COURT. Did you ever think, in your entire life, that you would see that (other than the politician being charged with tax evasion)? He actually took the Feds to Court, to try to stop them from taxing us. He is a literal Saint. I want to kiss him. No politician in history has ever done that. They are like, tax this, tax that, tax here, tax there. Ford is like “stop taxation. It is not fair!” Dude, I hear you so loud it is like you are next to me.

Yeah, you nuts in BC can keep Comrade Horgan. Have fun with Socialism. When you can’t afford anything anymore and the government ration cards have run out, feel free to come to Ontario to enjoy the land of plenty. We are Open for Business.

#71 Don Haraguchi on 05.12.19 at 8:33 pm

I suggest for a more nuanced perspective on the subject of money laundering out here in B.C., that our A.G David Eby be invited on as a bi-weekly guest blogger.

What say you, Garth ?

#72 David on 05.12.19 at 8:35 pm

Most provinces now have adults in charge. Hopefully we’ll have adults in Ottawa and B.C. soon.

#73 Worried as well on 05.12.19 at 8:45 pm

What was interesting in the CBC stated it’s been in Australia for over ten years and UK last year. What is more interesting is why people do not care?
I hate to say it, but no one cared when hitler came to power.
What worries me is why no one cares ?
Maybe we should alll get some yellow jackets.

#74 Asterix1 on 05.12.19 at 8:46 pm

31 The Real Mark on 05.12.19 at 5:38 pm
The whole narrative, that of money laundering, being fomented by the clowns at Glow-Bull (fake) “News”, and cheered on by the NDP, is supported with very little, if any evidence. It is the absolute worst kind of journalism.
———————————————

What are you talking about? Plenty of evidence and analysis!

Take the time to Read the German Reports and great work produced from numerous Canadian think tanks.

#75 acdel on 05.12.19 at 8:49 pm

What I will never understand about B.C. is how they could punish other Canadians for owning (in most part, generations) cabins, second homes etc. Punish the true culprits! I have just wasted my printed words. That Province is so backwards!

This is a good response to an article I will post below;

“The threat of environmental crisis will be the international disaster key that will unlock the New World Order”
Mikael Gorbachev 1996.

“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true”
Paul Watson, Co-Founder of Greenpeace.

“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
Sir John Houghton,First Chairman of IPCC.

“No matter if the science of Global warming is all phony… Climate change provides the biggest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”

Christine Stewart ,former Canadian Minister for the Environment.

Interesting article: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-when-the-left-goes-too-far-the-dangerous-doctrine-of-equity#comments-area

#76 Debtslavecreator on 05.12.19 at 8:50 pm

Day by day the indications continue to grow in number and confirm that this nation is in an advanced stage of collapse
Financial and social collapse, as well as widespread institutional decay.
This is only the 3rd or 4th inning
I am not a doomer or negative
It’s just time for that unpleasant part of the cycle
Government is the problem and it’s broke
These government actions will over time be used to confiscate the assets of those shrinking members of the upper middle class and govt will eventually use this type of legal manoeuvre to seize assets of innocent people and then tell the victims they’ll have to hire a lawyer to get their money back

Wait until in the ndp or greens win at the federal level in 2023 or 2027 at the latest

Because it’s “fair” you know – we need to be equal
Equality is communism

#77 Louise on 05.12.19 at 8:52 pm

54 Ustabe on 05.12.19 at 7:07 pm Couldn`t agree more And there is the old “race card” as per usual… This crap has been going on for years in Vancouver …Everyone was making money so no one to rock the boat..

#78 AGuyInVancouver on 05.12.19 at 8:53 pm

#58 AB on 05.12.19 at 7:31 pm
BC is going down the tubes. So sorry for the innocent folks there caught up in this mess. Let the chips fall where they may.
_ _ )
LOL, right. That’s why we continue to have the lowest provincial unemployment rate in Canada. Look no further than your own oil-driven economy to see something going down the tubes.

” low interest rates, over-borrowing, rampant speculation, FOMO ..”-Garth
And the rest of Canada didn’t have the same? BC, the GTA, New Zealand, Sydney, Melbourne all had one thing in common. Three guesses…

“Unexplained Wealth orders”, you mean those things brought in by the Conservatives in the UK? How dare the NDP steal conservative ideas!? I’m outraged I tell you, outraged!

#79 not 1st on 05.12.19 at 8:55 pm

Todays socialists are nothing like the ones if past. In the past a socialist is some one who wants a strong economy to support side programs like health care and pensions.

Todays socialist is a bitter, shallow, small minded Marxist offshoot. Give me all yours and destroy the economy at the same time. Very different, very dangerous.

#80 Ustabe on 05.12.19 at 9:00 pm

That was ugly. The issue here is one oflaw and civil rights. Not your navel. – Garth

Ugly? Of all the dog whistle, extreme postings you publish, mine was ugly?

You and I have differing views about ugly.

And leave my navel out of it, I’ll tell you this: I can still see mine and I don’t tip over when I’m putting on my underwear.

Tell you what, wander on down to your local community college (bonus if its one of the ones actively seeking out foreign students) and ask them how many students sign up and pay for the full year, tuition, books, room and board and then just before the cut off decide to quit and receive a full refund cheque on a college account.

You lunge to the conclusion that I would be in favour of these UWO things when I’m not…at all. I’m in favour of turning over rocks and shining light tho. Stifling discourse by petty, flip rejoinders is Smoking Man’s turf, lacks intellect and is counter productive.

Re-read my post in light of that and tell me then if it remains ugly.

#81 Hindsight on 05.12.19 at 9:01 pm

Totally absurd to suggest this Garth, UWO orders have been successfully used in the UK for years….the only people that need worry are criminals and wealthy tax avoiders……the problem is huge and needs to be properly addressed for once !!!!!
There is not a single Police officer in the entire prrovince that is assigned to any form of money laundering investigations/team !!!!!
This problem needs urgent attention instead of the decades of deliberate ignorance it has received. Left or Right wing has absolutely nothing to do with it, but almost certainly high level political corruption does !!

UWOs just came into effect in the UK in January of last year. – Garth

#82 Graeme on 05.12.19 at 9:05 pm

Who owns a house and can’t provide a paper trail that proves or disproves the legality? Crooks…that’s who.

Go Horgan!

#83 Basil Fawlty on 05.12.19 at 9:12 pm

Why would there be an estimated 45000 vacant residences in greater Vancouver? We know people are parking money in Canada. Why not ask where the money came from, before the sale is finalized? Then do random checks to confirm the money is legitimate.

This would scare off a lot of dirty money, as the last thing crooks want is possible exposure.

#84 js on 05.12.19 at 9:15 pm

The INSANITY had to stop! Natural market forces were not allowed to cool the market. The latter is largely manipulated in Canada, I find. Therefore, DO NOT LAMENT the fall… love it! It will bring better times to most British Columbians!

#85 Paul on 05.12.19 at 9:18 pm

P.S.
I was driving home this afternoon at 2:00 pm and watched 3 separate Real estate agents hammering “For Sale” signs into the ground at 2:45pm.
A year ago at 2pm these “Rock Stars” would have been pulling the signs out and popping them into their trunks….
Times are tough and after a “Charbonneau” style Commission into corruption…..they will get tougher.
————————————————————————————————
Call B.S on that what street? Agents don’t put the signs in if they do get another agent.

#86 toronto1 on 05.12.19 at 9:20 pm

wow UWO’s coming to BC– this in itself will decimate the BC market- fear is a powerful motivator- the unintended consequences will be that capital flees all of Canada, not just BC.

govt is moving to tax anything possible- watch for CRA “lifestyle audits” to become the new buzz word in the next two years…

Such an easy concept to bypass though- say i have illegitimate funds and want to buy a property- i just buy the property then take a 90-95% loan to value through a MIC- the property is owned by the MIC- which is legitimate and hidden through multiple layers of ownership and corporate structure- all legal by the way….. whats the govt do? the MIC sues and ultimately wins due to existing case law on the books. all i did is transfer ownership from illegitimate to legitimate– by the way- multiple ways this can be done even without a MIC.

#87 ImGonnaBeSick on 05.12.19 at 9:25 pm

#55 Dazed and CONfused on 05.12.19 at 7:11 pm

Notwithstanding Clause is constitutional… And Quebec uses it all the time… Stop reading your university’s newspaper – it’s causing climate change to your brain.

#88 AACI Homedog on 05.12.19 at 9:27 pm

Wondering about that 5% reported increase in property values in BC due to laundering. I assume most of it is in the Vancouver area; perhaps some in Kelowna. So that BC overall average is likely a bad way to measure it, and may be way higher than 5% in the Vancouver area, as a result.

#89 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.12.19 at 9:31 pm

A friend lives in Downtown Van in the West End.

The “newish” 20 story condo tower across from him has approx 10 units per floor.

I popped by his place a few month ago for a beer.
he pointed to 6 units on one floor directly across from his apartment and said, “No one has lived in those condos for over 3 years.”
The curtains were open on all 6 . Empty.
No furniture and the balcony’s were pigeon roosts.
Who owns them?
Who knows.
But obviously some one who doesnt want the “hassle” (legal or otherwise)of renting them and doesnt need the money.

Is it wrong to ask the owner where they got the money to buy 6 condos in one building in downtown van and leave them to rot?

Condos don’t rot as everything beyond the paint is commonly owned and maintained. – Garth

#90 Al on 05.12.19 at 9:34 pm

Almost one tenth of gross RE sales is laundered?? Wow. Seems like more than minor influencer. Due to the (deliberate) lack of international/national capital transparency, the UWO seems like the only effective tool available here.

How is 5% the same as one-tenth? – Garth

#91 Pulp Faction on 05.12.19 at 9:34 pm

Another NDP fairy tale.
The asian gangs have been well established in Vancouver for all of my life and before, in gambling, racketeering and money laundering. Through real estate ups and downs and long before the market went to Mars.

#92 AACI Homedog on 05.12.19 at 9:37 pm

As I said a few days ago…we would be SO better off now, as would Alberta, if Christie Clark would have won the last election in BC.

#93 Raptors Rock!!!!! on 05.12.19 at 9:38 pm

The Raptors advance to the Eastern conference finals!!! Toronto Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!! Toronto basher where are you now you pathetic moron!! Go crawl back under your rock you low life!!!

#94 ImGonnaBeSick on 05.12.19 at 9:39 pm

#77 Ustabe on 05.12.19 at 9:00 pm

Hey Neverwuz… Give it a rest. You just sound desperate now. Blood sugar getting low? Maybe a couple laps around the block and soon enough you won’t need that mirror to see your navel.

#95 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.12.19 at 9:40 pm

@#85 Paul
“Call B.S on that what street? Agents don’t put the signs in if they do get another agent.”

#######
Apparently Denial isnt just a river….

You can honestly say in all your life you’ve NEVER seen a sign at an intersection in suburbia announcing “OPEN HOUSE” with an arrow pointing in the direction of the House for Sale.

I saw three today in Burnaby being hammered home.
In one ten block area of my neighbourhood.

As I said.
Its been YEARS since I’ve seen Realtors hammering “Open House” signs in the ground on street corners at 2 pm.
And I saw THREE DIFFERENT REALTORS doing it today in a span of about 5 minutes.
They are usually packing up and heading home by 2pm.
Not any more.
Was one of them you?

Better luck next week.

#96 DON on 05.12.19 at 9:53 pm

#59 HT on 05.12.19 at 7:20 pm

This has already existed in tax law. Prove the source of bank deposits, otherwise it’s taxed as income/sales. Prove how your house, 3 cars, and yacht were paid for, otherwise it’s a net worth assessment. How is this any different?
***********

Exactly!

Seizure. – Garth

#97 MrL on 05.12.19 at 9:58 pm

Just admit it Garth, Canada is turning into a totalitarian socialist craphole. BC just being the most poignant example.

#98 DON on 05.12.19 at 9:59 pm

approx 5% laundered in real estate in 2018

also money laundering in casino’s, luxury cars, uni-tuition and the list goes on. But no one reads the report but yet comment on the situation and context in BC. Wow!

Yet no one answer’s how we got here.

#99 acdel on 05.12.19 at 10:05 pm

#84 js

Perhaps, but anyone that has gone through a boom and bust cycle knows exactly that; short time bust and short term boom.

Property prices will lower for a short time and when all those home sick British Columbian’s decide to return home “WHAM” prices go up and speculators are right behind them. Good-luck!

#100 NoName on 05.12.19 at 10:07 pm

She is back, even better this time, this little girl is awesome!

https://youtu.be/OG8JhwNHRmQ

#101 Bob Dog on 05.12.19 at 10:11 pm

When I moved back to Canada after years in the us, all my bank transfers to Canadians banks were locked for weeks in order to check for money laundering.

The banks and the government know it’s happening and pass it anyway.

#102 DON on 05.12.19 at 10:14 pm

Great to hear that crime in BC is a partisan debate now…Wow!

Not sure what to say to all those who comment from thousands of miles away. BC and Quebec are going through the realization of corruption…what province is next?

Partisanship can be a blinding phenomena.

#103 Ruane on 05.12.19 at 10:15 pm

#24 Joe Vancouver on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

Escaped Communism from Eastern Europe 30 years ago. The mindset of Canadians is becoming quite concerning.
————————
I’m with you and Garth on this one, Joe. I was born in Canada but my family are refugees from a communist country. I’ve heard the stories. UWOs sound dangerous, why would anyone be in favor?

For the people who are in favor, consider that police officers and those working in government are human just like everyone else – meaning, someone will eventually start abusing UWOs. You may think you will be safe because you can prove where you got the money to buy your house, but if someone hates you enough, they can just say, “what proof? We never received it!” and you’re screwed. Even if the seizure was temporary, what kind of a disruption or disaster could that be in your life? And for your family? And all it would take is some unscrupulous person not liking you.

#104 Ruane on 05.12.19 at 10:18 pm

I will add, just because other countries are doing it doesn’t mean that we should.

#105 Randy Belwood on 05.12.19 at 10:32 pm

DELETED

#106 saskatoon on 05.12.19 at 10:38 pm

#103 Ruane

the real danger is that most of those who enforce or create tyrannical governmental policies believe themselves to be scrupulous.

#107 Not Jon Oliver on 05.12.19 at 10:55 pm

Civil forfeiture is not just used for criminals. The main targets are Joe Public.

Watch US chat show host Jon a Oliver explain
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks

The police keep money “seized” for “extras” margherita machines, guns, tanks etc

The “evidence” required is basically non existAnce.

Even when a previous legal case finds you not guilty the CF department can still take your assets if they want as the burden of proof on a civil case is waaaaay lower.

#108 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.12.19 at 11:06 pm

When I applied for a mortgage.
They asked my name, SIN, employment verification, address, marital status, credit score, tax return.
Why would someone paying cash would not be subject to some scrutny, is beyond me.
Go Comrade Horgan, go.

#109 The Wet One on 05.12.19 at 11:11 pm

I realize that you have your political biases and views and so on and are wholly entitled to them Garth, but what exactly does this mean:

“Late last week the NDP government in that province, heavily invested in destroying the housing market through regs and taxes,…”

How is the market “destroyed”? People will still be buying and selling houses won’t they? Transactions will occur.

And even if it were illegal to own property (now that would definitely do a number on the market), I suspect that deals would still be done in some fashion to transact property rights in some fashion.

I get it.

The NDP aren’t your guys and aren’t as free market as you are.

Fine.

But let’s keep the language within the realm of the real shall we? There’s more than enough misled souls in our world screaming “COMMUNIST” or “WHITE GENOCIDE” or other such inanity at the top of their lungs for little or no rational reason. Let’s not add fuel to their fires shall we?

K. Thanx. Bye!

#110 The Wet One on 05.12.19 at 11:14 pm

“The idea behind such a power is that someone is guilty until proven innocent. The basic principle that authorities cannot search or seize your assets without due process is tossed on the rubbish heap of uninformed, prejudiced and envious public opinion.”

Oh and BTW, I’m totally with you with respect to UWO’s.

That said, I note that such things are common and are used to fund police departments all across the land of the free and the home of the brave. The land of property rights, law and order and free markets.

So…

Yeah…

I’d just as soon not see that kind of “freedom” be unleashed here. Other options should be pursued.

#111 Paul on 05.12.19 at 11:26 pm

#95 crowdedelevatorfartz
Here is the line from your post “Hammering In for sale signs” NOT OPEN HOUSE SIGNS
Like I said B.S. more wishful thinking.
———————————————————————————————-

I was driving home this afternoon at 2:00 pm and watched 3 separate Real estate agents hammering “For Sale” signs into the ground at 2:45pm.
A year ago at 2pm these “Rock Stars” would have been pulling the signs out and popping them into their trunks….
Times are tough and after a “Charbonneau” style Commission into corruption…..they will get tougher

#112 Jon B on 05.12.19 at 11:46 pm

I’ve got an idea. Let’s take the El Al approach and interview all home buyers prior to closing. It would be a process similar to when someone discusses obtaining a mortgage from a bank. Your income would be checked and proven among other things that would ensure the funds used to buy are clean. Perhaps the banks would be tasked to carry out this check. Just tossing it out as an idea….

#113 PHMIKE on 05.13.19 at 12:04 am

Great post , the government will most definitely pursue this course, they already have implemented through border crossings , cbsa can take anything away and you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you attained it through legal means. One thing i do disagree with Mr.T is the amount of money getting passed through real estate and businesses in BC illegally , and no sarcasm intended but you really need to put your feet down on the west coast to understand how crazy it really is. The loan sharking, drug trafficking, and human trafficking are just the tip of the iceberg there are also all the funds from ponzi schemes and foreign government rip offs that are coming from mainly China. For some reason it is never in the news or the people are never prosecuted… thats why im living island life in the Philippines hoping DU30 keeps up the goodwork! :)

#114 DON on 05.13.19 at 12:17 am

#96 DON on 05.12.19 at 9:53 pm

#59 HT on 05.12.19 at 7:20 pm

This has already existed in tax law. Prove the source of bank deposits, otherwise it’s taxed as income/sales. Prove how your house, 3 cars, and yacht were paid for, otherwise it’s a net worth assessment. How is this any different?
***********

Exactly!

Seizure. – Garth
**********

Gotcha.

Ease back on the seizure aspect until proven guilty.

Great revenue stream to counter act the decline in real estate related activities, that and the home rebate programs. Keep the lawyers, accountants, analysts, law enforcement and Repo people busy (soon to be a new reality tv show in BC).

Ain’t politics great.

#115 Sail Away on 05.13.19 at 12:28 am

In the words of Paul St. Pierre, speaking about the government: “Once you let them in, you’ll never get rid of the bastards” .

#116 In BC and Love NDP on 05.13.19 at 12:36 am

Not a political guy, but the NDP rule.

This story is just getting started. Wait until they call a Charbonneau Commission style public inquiry next week.

Someone is getting locked up.

#117 Fortune500 on 05.13.19 at 12:43 am

David Eby is one of the few politicians in Canada I respect these days. He is a man of extreme integrity and one of the few thinking in terms of the impact on society as a whole, and not just what those with power and money want.

Yes some of the rules coming down will go too far, but that is only because things swung the other way for so long. Eventually a balance will emerge. But for now, homeowners, BC Liberal supporters, and those over 55 are going to have to suffer through some minor inconveniences. It is the least they can do for the young Canadians who have been forced to compete with money launderers and foreign buyers who claim ‘housewife’ and ‘student’ while the same people looked the other way because … well.. I got mine.

#118 Silver on 05.13.19 at 12:45 am

so the government wants to know who’s laundering money and benefits from it…
will government officials open their books for the same kind of public exposure.

as they shouldn’t have any secretes worth hiding if they were honest now… would they.

the truth is
they all pigged up of the laundering of capital in bc.
it was from all over the world, and all over canada.
casino revenue
gambling revenue
property sales revenue
taxes used to cover handouts with out needing to claim tax increases…
property tax increases based on stuffing these hi flying sales into the assessment bundles….

allowing pig size public revenues and raises based on the benefit of adding high flying sales to rig property revenues increases…

driving sales values… allowing new levels of pig out…
etc… etc… etc…

they pigged out big time on the revue benefit’s
both Left and Right.
they both used it…
remember the last NDP gov here, mr cassino

anyone who didn’t see the multi level “Laundry Mat” running was pig dead blind.

also it would be interesting to start looking at the underground money laundering being used by the entitled
left art/creative underground.
the daily cash moving through this group is quite astonishing.
UBER
Air B&B
“ART”

bit coin and its ilk is the art communities method of avoiding contributing tax’s to the greater population.
they do this so they don’t have to claim income tax while they collect welfare and government “art”grants to not work.

they claim they can’t find work… equal to their student loan degrees.
apparently there should be 30 + paid public jobs a year teaching for a master’s specializing in english…

the dialog is endless in its entitlement.
their tax avoidance is fine, their different…

but always have money for 5 or 6 starbucks specials a day while they spend 10 hours gabbing…
i mean creating socially beneficial conceptual concepts that are above the yokel working class rednecks uneducated understanding…

Trotsky socialism is bad enough,
fascist is a nightmare.

the two mixed together gets bad really fast.

so
…. lets see where all the money really goes.
right down to the last pocket
both right and left.
so lets open the books.
and see where all the money went and goes.
i mean really open them.
after all honest people have no secretes…
………. right?

#119 Vision on 05.13.19 at 12:48 am

not 1st on 05.12.19 at 5:59 pm
These MSM articles on Doug Ford would be hilarious if they weren’t so sad.

Articles with headlines like; Why does Ford hate Ontario, is he trying to destroy our future, is he killing democracy, has he declared war on Toronto.

Lets rewind. Ontario has a debt of $350B more than half from the last govt. Its the largest sovereign debt in the modern world per capita and its still growing. And you don’t want him to make any cuts? Seriously? Give your head a shake.

———————#—#—#—#——-
I totally agree. Giving people money is easy. Everyone wants free stuff and bonuses. ( like T2 provides to some groups) Makes the politician popular in their eyes.
Taking away, cutting the slack, cutting deficits makes the politician unpopular to those masses who do not understand the implications of these debts. There is a significant waste in government. I wish there was a site where staff working in government etc can give their ideas of how reduce waste and duplication. Perhaps there is and I do not know about it. I work in hospital and see lots of waste. Meetings with highly paid CEOs and VP s that go on for hours and not much is accomplished. Company cars for hospital CEOs ( why can’t) they drive a car like the rest of us. Patient team meetings that go on for hours where everyone is sitting there waiting for their part to contribute.( just calculate the cost of one hour of all those salaried professionals and you will be blown away.)
For teachers, one cannot compare class sizes to 30 years ago. Teachers have technology tools to use to teach and the numbers can be higher. Only problem is more reports to mark ( more work for them), but you have technology for that.
The list can go on.
We have to make cuts, but listening to input from people working in the fields can be useful.

#120 Vision on 05.13.19 at 12:48 am

not 1st on 05.12.19 at 5:59 pm
These MSM articles on Doug Ford would be hilarious if they weren’t so sad.

Articles with headlines like; Why does Ford hate Ontario, is he trying to destroy our future, is he killing democracy, has he declared war on Toronto.

Lets rewind. Ontario has a debt of $350B more than half from the last govt. Its the largest sovereign debt in the modern world per capita and its still growing. And you don’t want him to make any cuts? Seriously? Give your head a shake.

———————#—#—#—#——-
I totally agree. Giving people money is easy. Everyone wants free stuff and bonuses. ( like T2 provides to some groups) Makes the politician popular in their eyes.
Taking away, cutting the slack, cutting deficits makes the politician unpopular to those masses who do not understand the implications of these debts. There is a significant waste in government. I wish there was a site where staff working in government etc can give their ideas of how reduce waste and duplication. Perhaps there is and I do not know about it. I work in hospital and see lots of waste. Meetings with highly paid CEOs and VP s that go on for hours and not much is accomplished. Company cars for hospital CEOs ( why can’t) they drive a car like the rest of us. Patient team meetings that go on for hours where everyone is sitting there waiting for their part to contribute.( just calculate the cost of one hour of all those salaried professionals and you will be blown away.)
For teachers, one cannot compare class sizes to 30 years ago. Teachers have technology tools to use to teach and the numbers can be higher. Only problem is more reports to mark ( more work for them), but you have technology for that.
The list can go on.
We have to make cuts, but listening to input from people working in the fields can be useful.

#121 SmallTownSteve on 05.13.19 at 12:57 am

An NDPer is someone who is just too stupid to realize he(or she) is a communist. Baby steps to the left soon turn into a full on sprint to the edge of the cliff. Then it is too late.

#122 Will on 05.13.19 at 1:18 am

If people read the German report there are some glaring examples of fishy real estate deals in the BC market.. like students from UBC buying a house in the $5 + million dollar range or people with reportedly low income buying blocks of presale condos..

#123 Exurban on 05.13.19 at 1:49 am

#33 Flop

You took your in-laws out to dinner on their 50th anniversary … on the BUS?????? In downtown Vancouver???

Good God.

#124 JWD on 05.13.19 at 1:49 am

We lost our way with the previous gov’t. They turned a blind eye and essentially fueled the fire. Here we are. The market is much like Australia and New Zealand. Have a look at what New Zealand has done. A ban on almost ALL foreign buyers to correct their market which underwent the same rampant speculation. Ozzie the same. They want to know the source of the funds. Not so outrageous.

#125 Lost...but not leased on 05.13.19 at 1:55 am

From Vancouver BC

Developer abandons condo project, puts land up for sale

https://openhousing.ca/2019/05/09/developer-abandons-condo-project-puts-land-up-for-sale/

QUOTE:
A developer who bought up seven Cambie Corridor properties with plans to redevelop the site as a low-rise development appears to have abandoned the project and put the land up for sale.

Buffalo Properties Inc had planned to develop apartments along the 500 block of 65th and 64th avenue, which fall under Cambie Corridor Phase 31.

Every property is priced at $6,828,000.

#126 Smoking Man on 05.13.19 at 2:14 am

Gamblers and risk takers not welcome in Canada.

Your only hope is a govt job, then when they run out of other people’s money and they took your guns away.

That’s the day you realize. Smoking Man was on to something.

While you were going ya Raptors.

This song was playing in my mind.
Pink Floyed timeless.

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it’s sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you’re older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that…

#127 Jack Adullby on 05.13.19 at 2:33 am

“Is money laundering bad?

Of course. It’s illegal. Criminals need to be stopped and punished.”

You could have left it at that, but instead chose to attack (without qualification) the data that thereatened a much-beloved narrative.

#128 Dolce Vita on 05.13.19 at 5:39 am

Garth’s points today are about how far do you take property forfeiture? Where does that end and where is the line between that and the rights of an individual?

Some excellent Comments today where I learned much from them about this (e.g., #35 Ace Goodheart) notwithstanding what Garth says.

So, I decided to do a quickie search as it mattered and THAT sure OPENED MY EYES.

In Canada, we DO NOT have PROPERTY RIGHTS as defined in other countries like the US or in the EU.

Apparently Cdn. Bill of Rights weak knee’d on this, we default to International Law and, believe it or not, in part NAFTA (and who know’s what the new version says on this, i.e., if existing clauses are carried thru to the new agreement):

http://propertyrightsguide.ca/are-property-rights-protected-in-canadian-law/

Property vs. Human Rights are an going issue in the EU Courts with economic and financial crime, terrorism, etc. Here is a reasonable write-up on the EU balance between Property Rights and Human Rights (with a number of legal decisions discussed – eye opening):

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12027-017-0485-0

—————————————————–

Maybe what BC is planning to do will end up finally giving Canadians a definitive national law on Property Rights & Seizure vis-à-vis Bill of Rights.

Beyond my level of expertise from the above and what others have said today. COMPLEX an understatement.

Macbeth’s Cauldron indeed on the path that BC is thinking about undertaking.

#129 Raptors Rock!!!!! on 05.13.19 at 6:06 am

Still delirious over the iconic finish to the Raptor basketball game last night. A moment for the ages! Here is what a Philly fan had to say to the great city of Toronto:

“Replying to @Raptors
Sixers fan here, nice to meet you. Congrats on the series win. Please win the NBA Championship because your country has earned it. Rooting for you guys all the way. Tip of the cap to you guys.”

Let’s get behind our only NBA team Canada. All Canadians should be proud of the lone Canadian NBA team making it to the final four!

#130 under the radar on 05.13.19 at 6:18 am

From my experience of the existing criminal forfeiture law application in Ontario its seems to be applied where there are reasonable grounds to believe the property is from proceeds of crime. Creating a reverse onus offence where the taxpayer must prove innocence exists already under the Income Tax Act but that does not lead to immediate seizure only tax ,penalties and interest and possible jail. I suspect a Province will have difficulty constitutionally with a UWO where the threshold for seizure is mere suspicion .

#131 Phylis on 05.13.19 at 6:59 am

Just have our government inform the other government of the real estate transaction. The other government will be interested too.

#132 Gurpal Brar on 05.13.19 at 7:21 am

DELETED

#133 Shawn on 05.13.19 at 7:30 am

The Fed is going to cut 25 bps. The BOC will follow.

#134 the Jaguar on 05.13.19 at 7:37 am

Re Fishman post #54
But what if the Dippers go the China or Persia & say Wing or Reza here bought 5 houses on the west side . Did they pay their taxes? Ouch.

Exactly. It’s targeted. And the above example is right on. If you are sitting back and thinking ‘oh yeah really? How common would it be that someone would buy five houses on the west side?’ Relatively common. Two in the wife’s name, one in the son’s name, another in the daughters name, etc. Husband still overseas in the home country working and moving money out.
Targeted. I don’t exactly see this as a return to the McCarthy years.

#135 millmech on 05.13.19 at 7:40 am

#116 Fortune 500
You are correct it will be an inconvenience with all those unemployed millennial families moving back into the basement it will really suck for the boomers who thought they were free of the little bedbug like offspring.
You do realize when the real estate collapse comes that it is the only thing really supporting our economy , nothing like a 25% rise in unemployment for 5-7 years. As a Gen-Xer I am eagerly awaiting the carnage and will laugh myself silly at the self inflicted idiocy that people so badly desire to bring on themselves. Houses will be cheap because no one will have the jobs to support them.

#136 TurnerNation on 05.13.19 at 7:53 am

our prayers are answered here in “Ford Nation” [sic]

Buck a beer. How did they know I am hardworking! I am people. Indeed my wallet :(

Hot off the wire:

“LAKER LAGER BRINGS BACK BUCK A BEER

Waterloo Brewing, the trade name of Brick Brewing Co. Ltd., is bringing back Buck a Beer pricing for Laker Lager.

“We started Buck a Beer,” proclaimed George Croft, President and CEO, Waterloo Brewing. “That phrase and that promise made Laker a favourite of Ontario beer drinkers.

“People in Ontario work hard and deserve a break – at the end of their workday and in their wallets,” suggested Jim Manz, Director, Commercial. “It seems money has to stretch further than ever before, and the timing and conditions were right for us to bring back Buck a Beer pricing. We built the Buck a Beer bandwagon, and we’re happy for Ontario beer drinkers to climb aboard again.””

#137 After Communism on 05.13.19 at 7:56 am

People are not people. You brought in socialist totalitarian minded people and now they change the place to suit their own traditions and values which are not your traditions and values. They are not your way. They never lost their way.

#138 Tater on 05.13.19 at 7:57 am

This is an extremely useful book,
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00G3L6JQ4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

and one of the core tenets in it is to not confuse lines for curves and vice versa.

I suspect most assume the impact of foreign money on real estate is a linear function, when in fact it is a curve.

Once the narrative becomes that foreigners are buying up homes, ANY foreign buying stokes the local FOMO. While the narrative is intact, you see a rapid spiral upwards and every Asian dude buying a property feeds into the confirmation bias of the locals. Throw in low rates and loose (very loose) lending standards and you have a pretty epic bubble.

For the narrative to shift, you need to see prices soften AND have a plausible reason for foreign buying to have slowed. Vancouver now has the softening prices along with China tightening capital controls. In addition, it has a government who seems determined to put on a show of stopping foreign money.

#139 Evangeline on 05.13.19 at 7:57 am

#109 “, I note that such things are common and are used to fund police departments all across the land of the free and the home of the brave.”

A breakdown into which states use it would be interesting; mostly red, mostly blue or both equal.

#140 Remembrancer on 05.13.19 at 8:04 am

#118 Vision on 05.13.19 at 12:48 am
For teachers, one cannot compare class sizes to 30 years ago. Teachers have technology tools to use to teach and the numbers can be higher. Only problem is more reports to mark ( more work for them), but you have technology for that.
——————————
Oh? Do tell, what technology tools are those?

#141 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.13.19 at 8:21 am

@#110 Paul
“Here is the line from your post “Hammering In for sale signs” NOT OPEN HOUSE SIGNS
Like I said B.S. more wishful thinking.

*****

Oh my God !
I made a mistake in exactly identifying the signs….
Send the Police, slap on the cuffs.

PoTAYto
PoTAHto

Either way.
Realtors hammering signs in the ground late in the day.

Watching a well dressed, mid 40’s man trying to hammer an Open House sign into the ground WAS quite amusing.
The well dressed lady I saw a few blocks away had a much better technique and a bigger hammer.
As did the well dressed man a few blocks after that.
And they were all driving expensive cars.

At 2:15pm in the afternoon, on a Sunday.

And where were the FOMO buyers?
Crickets.

#142 dharma bum on 05.13.19 at 8:27 am

Herr Horgan

Sieg Heil, baby!

What’s the furor about this Fuhrer?

Anyone that can accept this is blind to their own reality.

“When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.”

– Martin Niemoller

#143 oh bouy on 05.13.19 at 8:30 am

@#133 millmech on 05.13.19 at 7:40 am
#116 Fortune 500
You are correct it will be an inconvenience with all those unemployed millennial families moving back into the basement it will really suck for the boomers who thought they were free of the little bedbug like offspring.
You do realize when the real estate collapse comes that it is the only thing really supporting our economy , nothing like a 25% rise in unemployment for 5-7 years. As a Gen-Xer I am eagerly awaiting the carnage and will laugh myself silly at the self inflicted idiocy that people so badly desire to bring on themselves. Houses will be cheap because no one will have the jobs to support them.
_________________________________

you’re quite the nasty human eh.

#144 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.13.19 at 8:31 am

@#123 Lost lease
“From Vancouver BC
Developer abandons condo project, puts land up for sale”

******

I wonder if they had OPEN HOUSE signs or FOR SALE signs on that development?
Either way .
It made no difference.
Crickets.
The FOMO crowds are truly gone.

When we see unexplained fires on half finished “spec” projects.
Thats when we’ll know the 1980’s are back.

#145 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.13.19 at 8:34 am

Speaking of property seizures.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/for-black-south-africans-land-seizure-is-a-question-of-justice

#146 dharma bum on 05.13.19 at 8:39 am

#127 Raptors Rock

All Canadians should be proud of the lone Canadian NBA team making it to the final four!
——————————————————————–

Uhhhhh…exactly how many Canadians are on the Raptors?

One?

All the rest are imports.

A really significant representation for the nation – NOT.

#147 Tater on 05.13.19 at 8:40 am

Reading these comments it’s really easy to see the folks who’ve been evading taxes.

#148 mike kelley on 05.13.19 at 8:45 am

you are all incorrect and guilty of nonsensical hysteria “he who prospers and does not work shall be brought before a magistrate to explain himself “this is a medieval uk law which can still be used and probably applies to canada as we generally have jurisdictional power ,socialism is not communism as any adult should know and capitalism is a grossly unjust and unacceptable way to run human affaires

#149 Headhunter on 05.13.19 at 8:59 am

https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/more-ridiculous-civil-asset-forfeiture-shenanigans-25051/

best way to get rich quick I guess is to run a racket!

#150 PastThePeak on 05.13.19 at 9:16 am

The goose steppers are out in force in the bilge section…

#151 Remembrancer on 05.13.19 at 9:30 am

#137 Evangeline on 05.13.19 at 7:57 am

Sorry, doesn’t look like a red vs. blue state thing though reporting and retention varies by state…

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/asset-forfeiture-laws-by-state.html

#152 Grey Dog on 05.13.19 at 9:38 am

Per topic today discussing world wide illegal activity read McMAFIA by Misha Glenny published about 2008. You might also be able to find him on YouTube discussing this book, I believe I saw him on TVO Steve Paiken a couple of years ago.

#153 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 9:50 am

#24 Joe Vancouver on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

Escaped Communism from Eastern Europe 30 years ago. The mindset of Canadians is becoming quite concerning.
____

You are not the first Communism escapee to have voiced this concern about Canadians on this blog.

Scary stuff indeed.

#154 T on 05.13.19 at 10:03 am

Looks like the market needs a tweet.

Imagine if houses got repriced this way. Oh thats right—it doesnt.

#155 Mattl on 05.13.19 at 10:12 am

Let’s be real about Beneficial Ownership, it should absolutely be a requirement for RE. It is the basis for AML. A terrorist or drug dealer should not be able to use Canadian RE to layer funds. Does anyone seriously believe that RE should be out of scope for BO?

I don’t support an online registry due to privacy / need to know concerns. And I am not supportive of the dippers, at all. But the government has an absolute right / need to know who owns RE. They are coming from the wrong place on this one – envy – but all govt’s should absolutely know, for their own use, who owns property in Canada.

#156 Prairieboy on 05.13.19 at 10:20 am

People always seem to be ok with right being trampled as long as it’s perceived as beneficial to themselves in the short term. Then one day it will get turned on them and they’ll be crying THIS ISN’T FAIR!

Should I be expected to prove where the funds came from for every purchase I make? Sure it sounds fine to demand proof when some rich guy is buying a house. How about when you buy your next minivan? Apply for your next apartment lease?

Once you give them an inch they’re going to take a mile.

#157 Mattl on 05.13.19 at 10:21 am

Also, it follows that without BO, we don’t know who actually owns the property. So let’s stop quoting this 5% nonsense. Some of the most expensive markets in YVR have had 10-20% foreign ownership proven, on owners we can validate. That number would be MUCH higher if we knew who the beneficial owners was.

I suspect by volume the number is over 10% by volume in YVR. Sure locals have driven up the price of homes in Maple Ridge but the high end is dominated by foreign capital. It never made sense that moisters with 100K family income were driving up YVR homes from 750K to 1.5MM – the math doesn’t work.

When this all shakes out and we know who actually owns these homes, I hope we can have a good discussion that doesn’t label anyone that pushes back a xenophobe. I for one welcome foreign ownership, I couldn’t care less who is investing in Canada as long as the money keeps flowing (money laundering being the big expection).

#158 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 10:24 am

#137 After Communism on 05.13.19 at 7:56 am
People are not people. You brought in socialist totalitarian minded people and now they change the place to suit their own traditions and values which are not your traditions and values. They are not your way. They never lost their way.
____

Not so for those who left, if they thought living in a communist sh!thole was great, they never would have left the place. My Dad thinks his country of origin is a hell-hole, been back once in his life to visit, he’s not ever going back again. They’re all here in Canada for good reason.

IMHO, we need MORE folks from Communist dump countries moving here (of their own initiative) to Canada. They of all people will recognize the warning signs, and will not vote alongside them.

#159 Dolce Vita on 05.13.19 at 10:49 am

#140 Remembrancer

Well for multiple choice and/or True False exams you have the ubiquitous Optical Scanners (OpScan for short, about the size of small printer, looks like one too and has onboard software for marking).

Sheet where the student shades in T or F or shades in either A, B, C, D or E…answer key fed into the OpScan machine followed by the student exam sheets and out comes a printout with the marks and a whack of exam statistics. Few hundred exam sheets marked in a minute or so.

Written reports more difficult of course but with a word limit (encourages to the point and economical writing) and targeted questions or specific theme(s), marking becomes easier and faster as you know what you are looking for when marking (basically, scan reading looking for key words and calculations).

Other ways but the above pretty standard for most thinking Academia.

And at University, ALL HAIL TA’s (a.k.a, indentured servants that do the marking for you).

#160 entropy on 05.13.19 at 10:55 am

iF yUo HaVe NoThInG tO HiDe…

#161 Evangeline on 05.13.19 at 11:18 am

#151 Rembrancer

Thanks for the link which led to other interesting links. From what I quickly read, the USA police taking money from accounts is dissimilar to what Garth described in his post. It appears that the USA police take money from people suspected of organized crime and Garth describes a process where no criminal activity is even suspected:

Garth: “The reports last week came with a bombshell idea. The NDPers now say they’ll actively consider legalizing UWOs, or unexplained wealth orders. This would grant the government the absolute power to seize real estate from anyone unable or unwilling to provide an explanation of where they got the money to buy. No criminal activity would need to be proven, suspected, or involved. The stated rational is that money might be the result of offshore activity, and beyond the reach of Canadian law. “

#162 Headhunter on 05.13.19 at 11:24 am

#140 Remembrancer on 05.13.19 at 8:04 am
#118 Vision on 05.13.19 at 12:48 am
For teachers, one cannot compare class sizes to 30 years ago. Teachers have technology tools to use to teach and the numbers can be higher. Only problem is more reports to mark ( more work for them), but you have technology for that.
——————————
Oh? Do tell, what technology tools are those?

_________________________________________

errrr ummm its called “the internet” Salman Khan Acedemy… we dont need schools anymore. Just ship the kids between houses of “like minded” individuals who have a natural disposition to the subject

So many people have taken their kids out of the school system its going to crash it. Thats why some states want anytime snap visits to homes that school their kids.

#163 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 11:36 am

#158 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 10:24 am
#137 After Communism on 05.13.19 at 7:56 am
People are not people. You brought in socialist totalitarian minded people and now they change the place to suit their own traditions and values which are not your traditions and values. They are not your way. They never lost their way.
____

Not so for those who left, if they thought living in a communist sh!thole was great, they never would have left the place. My Dad thinks his country of origin is a hell-hole, been back once in his life to visit, he’s not ever going back again. They’re all here in Canada for good reason.

IMHO, we need MORE folks from Communist dump countries moving here (of their own initiative) to Canada. They of all people will recognize the warning signs, and will not vote alongside them.
————-
What warning signs?
One more brand of tooth brush on the shelf of your local drug store.
Oh forgot, those are the warning signs of capitalism encroaching.
Communism = 1 tooth brush brand.
Capitalism = many brands doing the same thing as the communist brand.
And we can thank Reagan for that. And Thatcher, too.

#164 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 11:40 am

The British Canadians have a history of taking other people’s properties.
Just ask the First Nations and the Japanese.

#165 Paul on 05.13.19 at 11:44 am

#141 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.13.19 at 8:21 am
@#110 Paul
“Here is the line from your post “Hammering In for sale signs” NOT OPEN HOUSE SIGNS
Like I said B.S. more wishful thinking.

*****

Oh my God !
I made a mistake in exactly identifying the signs….
Send the Police, slap on the cuffs.

PoTAYto

————————————————————————————————
It’ clear you were not mistaken, but if you feel a need to make such claims get someone that’s good with story telling to help to out.Or get our host to proof read for you he can spot B.S. even after it’s stopped steaming.

#166 Andrew Bissonnette on 05.13.19 at 11:57 am

Garth, 5% of all sales is Chinese dudes and criminals is ridiculous. More like 35%, and I could care less what happens to someone who has invested in the housing market and can’t prove where the money came from. If you don’t live and work in Vancouver , you shouldn’t be able to buy property. Owning or renting is outrageous, people can’t afford to live and work in this city, simple as that. Restaurants can’t find people to work the lower paying jobs as people can’t afford to live close to work. The greedy politicians -Christy Clark and her caucus deserve to be hauled into an investigation and charged if guilty.

#167 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 11:59 am

#138 Tater on 05.13.19 at 7:57 am
This is an extremely useful book,
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00G3L6JQ4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

and one of the core tenets in it is to not confuse lines for curves and vice versa.

I suspect most assume the impact of foreign money on real estate is a linear function, when in fact it is a curve.

Once the narrative becomes that foreigners are buying up homes, ANY foreign buying stokes the local FOMO. While the narrative is intact, you see a rapid spiral upwards and every Asian dude buying a property feeds into the confirmation bias of the locals. Throw in low rates and loose (very loose) lending standards and you have a pretty epic bubble.
————–
The book that I’m reading deals with the same subject.
It’s called “Scientifically Thinking”
By: Stanley A. Rice.
What scares me the most is that the people who deny that humans are a significant contributor to the changing environment are linear thinkers.
Population growth for instance is not lineal.

#168 Remembrancer on 05.13.19 at 12:14 pm

#162 Headhunter on 05.13.19 at 11:24 am
we dont need schools anymore. Just ship the kids between houses of “like minded” individuals who have a natural disposition to the subject
———————————

Oh, so you’re a home school’er and what to make sure you and yours are only exposed to “like-minded” individuals / maybe those with a natural gift for a subject over accreditation? Got it. Makes sense now…

Can’t speak to what states may be doing or the validity of your statement concerning the rush to the exits crashing the system, not terribly interested…

#169 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 12:16 pm

#153 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 9:50 am
#24 Joe Vancouver on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

Escaped Communism from Eastern Europe 30 years ago. The mindset of Canadians is becoming quite concerning.
____

You are not the first Communism escapee to have voiced this concern about Canadians on this blog.

Scary stuff indeed.
—————
You scare easily, don’t you.
Just as mom always told you: There is no boogie man under the bed.
There will never be communism in Canuckistan, ever.
The Amis would not stand for it.

#170 Pfft on 05.13.19 at 12:25 pm

@#141 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.13.19 at 8:21 am
@#110 Paul
“Here is the line from your post “Hammering In for sale signs” NOT OPEN HOUSE SIGNS
Like I said B.S. more wishful thinking.

*****

Oh my God !
I made a mistake in exactly identifying the signs….
Send the Police, slap on the cuffs.

PoTAYto
PoTAHto

Either way.
Realtors hammering signs in the ground late in the day.

Watching a well dressed, mid 40’s man trying to hammer an Open House sign into the ground WAS quite amusing.
The well dressed lady I saw a few blocks away had a much better technique and a bigger hammer.
As did the well dressed man a few blocks after that.
And they were all driving expensive cars.

At 2:15pm in the afternoon, on a Sunday.

And where were the FOMO buyers?
Crickets.
__________________________

weird.
those are usually folding signs.

#171 Remembrancer on 05.13.19 at 12:43 pm

#161 Evangeline on 05.13.19 at 11:18 am

You are correct – the assets seizures in the states are from or suspected to be from crimes. There are cautionary tales / horror stories regarding over-zealous law enforcement taking cash etc for dubious reasons as there’s a moral hazard in the departments being direct beneficiaries of the seizures for purported crimes. This is not a new thing either, heck, the Miami Vice 80s TV show’s car and boat motor pool relied on this as a major plot point.

What Garth describes seems like a combination of existing asset forfeiture law trends and new age thought police government agencies feeling like there may be a crime based on how nice the house looks and its square footage… Makes ON Con’s preoccupation with kitschy branding, patronage appointments, slapping down the disadvantaged and vending machine alcohol sales seem quaint…

Seems like there is a lot of weirdness going on in BC – good luck on a charter challenge for this though… Making the $5M-$10M housing market safe for the resident middle class may get more votes just by announcing it even if constitutionally unenforceable?

#172 MF on 05.13.19 at 12:44 pm

#142 dharma bum on 05.13.19 at 8:27 am

-One of the most powerful quotes. Thanks for posting.

MF

#173 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 12:45 pm

#163 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 11:36 am

What warning signs?
____

Just ask those here on the blog who lived (and escaped) it first hand.

#163 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 11:36 am

…And we can thank Reagan for that. And Thatcher, too.
___

Very well: Thank you Reagan and Thatcher (very much) for providing choice, competition, and low prices.

#174 GregW, Oakville on 05.13.19 at 12:50 pm

Hi Garth, re: Criminals & cons

“The reports last week came with a bombshell idea. The NDPers now say they’ll actively consider legalizing UWOs, or unexplained wealth orders. This would grant the government the absolute power to seize real estate from anyone unable or unwilling to provide an explanation of where they got the money to buy. No criminal activity would need to be proven, suspected, or involved.”

-First they came for ‘their’ house, but no one stopped them.
-Then they came for my house, but no one stopped them.
-Then they came for your family’s house, but no one was left to stop them.

It sounds like the NDPers do not grasp or have thought throw the lessons from history, of what they are proposing. And that it could even be applied to themselves and effect their own family down the road?

Maybe they just can’t fathom others working hard, saving and investing to earn enough money to buy a house?
Because that is what most people do to have a house! And most people respect others right to privacy of their finical documents, and health care records.

But maybe this should not come as a big surprising after the likes of Facebook just censored free speech (and all the while recording everything you do!)
Simply for not hold an option ‘they’ agree with, or information they don’t want to hear or be shared.

And without evidence labelling you ‘dangerous’ whatever that means. The majority of people hear a label like ‘dangerous’ and just move on due to not have any time to investigate deeper, they assume the mass media is checking.

Hopefully it’s not simple due to plan apathy or conditioning?

#175 Roger Waters on 05.13.19 at 12:57 pm

#126 Smoking Man on 05.13.19 at 2:14 am

Gamblers and risk takers not welcome in Canada.
Your only hope is a govt job, then when they run out of other people’s money and they took your guns away.
That’s the day you realize. Smoking Man was on to something.
While you were going ya Raptors.
This song was playing in my mind.
Pink Floyed timeless.

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it’s sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you’re older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that…
……………………………………………………………….
If you ditched Roger Waters why are you plagiarizing his lyrics? I thought you hated Roger Waters with a passion? Now ABBA is your bae? Come back to me when you can say your a real Rock and roll Man, not a bubble gum girl dancer group that you love so much your turnt. TBH I can’t believe you down Jack Daniels straight? Must have blown your tiny mind when they took your guns away from you.
lol ha, ha, ha, ha ABBA, still laughing, lmao………….. and it is spelled Pink Floyd!

#86 Smoking Man on 05.12.17 at 10:54 pm
I’ve diched Roger Waters my hero of many years. He don’t see how a wired law puts people inside a wall.
Abba rocks
https://youtu.be/JGqP5wnK0Ao

#176 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 12:57 pm

#169 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 12:16 pm

There is no boogie man under the bed…
_______

Until there is…

I’m not of the school of thought that thinks it could never happen here.

The tougher it gets for Canadians, the closer it comes.

#177 NoName on 05.13.19 at 1:20 pm

Hey AI, you’ll like this. I ain’t no luddite, nether those smart kids at mit, they probably understand technology and rate of advancement as good as i do ;-).

I am steel puzzle ed where i woud take my Tesla3 if i have plugged windshield washer nozzle or god forbid savire dent that needs penal replacement…

Reason that i dident buy civic Hybrid in 2010 was that batery life is 8yrs, also warranty on batery was 8yrs but pro-rated, each year you lose 12.5% out of 8k what new battery was priced.

Here is interesting read. Claim if you buy tesla you might be able to rent your car as robo taxi and earned 30k, only problem is car has to drive 90k per year maintenance free for 10 yrs. But imagine that 1.5 million kilometers layer you get to have 300k just because you bought tesla with auto pilot. Iam think ing of getting one now, no i am not, just joking.

Maybe if tesla adopt stringency of airplane design and manufacturing process, and if they do those cars would not be costing 47k. But with tesla everything is rather random you never know, they just may say they will doit.

Given that Tesla intends to put its robotaxi fleet into operation by the end of 2020, one would think the company has given extensive thought to the real economics of the venture. Yet, according to Musk’s own comments at Tesla’s recent Autonomy Day event, most of the claimed economic benefits have little basis in serious analysis:

“Oh, pricing. We just threw some numbers on there. I mean definitely plug in whatever pricing you think makes sense. We just kind of randomly said ‘oh, maybe a dollar (per mile)…probably a dollar is conservative for the next 10 years.’” EM

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4263500-tesla-robotaxis-may-gold-mine-musk-imagines

#178 Re-Cowtown on 05.13.19 at 1:25 pm

#169 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.13.19 at 12:16 pm
#153 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 9:50 am
#24 Joe Vancouver on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

Escaped Communism from Eastern Europe 30 years ago. The mindset of Canadians is becoming quite concerning.
____

You are not the first Communism escapee to have voiced this concern about Canadians on this blog.

Scary stuff indeed.
—————
You scare easily, don’t you.
Just as mom always told you: There is no boogie man under the bed.
There will never be communism in Canuckistan, ever.
The Amis would not stand for it.
=================================

The Americans could beat us to the punch and go fill commie. Several years ago I was working in the US and it struck me that they were only a few moves away from a police state. At the time (well before Trump), I believed that the threat came from the right. Imagine my surprise to see now that the threat actually comes from the left.

The transition to a police state starts as a nanny state fueled by the staggering ignorance of the low information young voters. From there it picks up speed as the young cannot believe that they were wrong and double down, then triple down. The police state is just a natural evolution of reality avoidance at all costs.

I place the blame at the feet of their Hippy parents. They blew so much smoke (weed and other) up their kids butts that they actually believe that freedom and capitalism are bastard children of the great Satan. And the kids are unable to sort it out for themselves because social media robber barons control what the dummies can access on the web.

Ignorance, weed and social media fueled jealousy. What could possibly go wrong?

#179 JB on 05.13.19 at 1:42 pm

#89 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.12.19 at 9:31 pm

A friend lives in Downtown Van in the West End.

The “newish” 20 story condo tower across from him has approx 10 units per floor.

I popped by his place a few month ago for a beer.
he pointed to 6 units on one floor directly across from his apartment and said, “No one has lived in those condos for over 3 years.”
The curtains were open on all 6 . Empty.
No furniture and the balcony’s were pigeon roosts.
Who owns them?
Who knows.
But obviously some one who doesnt want the “hassle” (legal or otherwise)of renting them and doesnt need the money.

Is it wrong to ask the owner where they got the money to buy 6 condos in one building in downtown van and leave them to rot?

Condos don’t rot as everything beyond the paint is commonly owned and maintained. – Garth
……………………………………………………………………..
Commonly owned and commonly paid for in your fees! Did you ever see fees go down? Nope! Someone has to pay for the rot.

#180 Bdwy sktn on 05.13.19 at 1:45 pm

Quiet day on the stocks, eh?

Doug is this on sale here or wait for a weaker prey.

#181 NoName on 05.13.19 at 1:47 pm

@ponzy r us

What’s the book titled?

Only thing i ever read on lirner thinking in non liner world is this.

https://hbr.org/2017/05/linear-thinking-in-a-nonlinear-world

#182 PastThePeak on 05.13.19 at 1:48 pm

“So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.”

#183 PoorEnginner on 05.13.19 at 1:51 pm

I welcome UWO in all of Canada.

Those that worked for their money and/or invested well, and paid their taxes have nothing to fear, and should support this. Why? Because those of us playing by the rules have long subsidized those that don’t. I’m sick of it.

Might this action crash the RE prices across Canada as dirty money will run away and hide in the Caribbean? I sure hope so. My house is not an investment but a place to raise my family. And lower prices would help my kids purchase in a couple of decades. All the hard working and fair Canadians will be left to continue building this country. It’s a win-win.

Where can I vote???

#184 Ustabe on 05.13.19 at 2:18 pm

Herr Horgan

Sieg Heil, baby!

What’s the furor about this Fuhrer?

Hard to tell the difference between ugly and satire sometimes.

Ugly satire?

#185 IHCTD9 on 05.13.19 at 2:20 pm

#162 Headhunter on 05.13.19 at 11:24 am

errrr ummm its called “the internet” Salman Khan Acedemy… we dont need schools anymore. Just ship the kids between houses of “like minded” individuals who have a natural disposition to the subject

So many people have taken their kids out of the school system its going to crash it. Thats why some states want anytime snap visits to homes that school their kids.
____

Kids could well be taught over the internet before long, it just makes too much sense to not do it. My eldest is currently enrolled in French language lessons as he will have to pass the Civil Service French fluency test in the years to come. He is doing it over the net. It’s cheap, super convenient, and it works. He has a real teacher, and has E-“face to face” tests every so often. The real beauty is that he can learn at his own pace, so he is ripping through the levels not having to move at the pace of regular course work (ie like a semester). Those who learn slower would benefit even more.

Outside of Canada’s big cities, Schools are closing. Build 1 new, close 3 old. Folks having less kids, too much capacity, loads of trained teachers will never work in their field in Ontario.

On top of that, folks are indeed looking into other ways of educating more and more. I have 7 nephews and nieces on the wife’s side, including my two kids, only 2 out of 9 have gone through the public system.

#186 n1tro on 05.13.19 at 2:39 pm

#44 Chaddywack on 05.12.19 at 6:04 pm

If you legitimately bought a house with “clean” money it should be pretty easy to prove where it came from. CRA does “lifestyle audits” currently where they will look at the cost of your house and your cars and ask how you can live on $12,000 a year while collecting CCB for your kids and GST cheques….how is this any different?
————————
Difference is CRA has probable cause as they can see what you claimed as income and what you are stuffing in to accounts which wouldn’t add up since there needs to be a buffer for things like living. The UWO would have a person be subjected to persecution on a suspicion of illegality, quite possibly only based on their race.

A lot of people in Vancouver are angry and seeing rich kids driving around with an “N” on the back of their Bugatti thumbing their noses at the system. I don’t blame Vancouverites one bit for their anger.
————————–
Maybe instead of being jealous and envious, you do you, and let others do themselves.

#187 Shego on 05.13.19 at 2:46 pm

“If you have nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear”, which is another way of saying: “Anyone who’s afraid of being persecuted should be persecuted”.

– Robert Newman

#188 Remembrancer on 05.13.19 at 3:00 pm

#180 Bdwy sktn on 05.13.19 at 1:45 pm
Quiet day on the stocks, eh?

Doug is this on sale here or wait for a weaker prey.
—————————-
Lets see if Doug responds, but interesting day indeed.

Trump and Xi are trading more tariff barbs though Larry Kudlow is going to be in trouble for admitting this weekend that #TrumpTariffs are taxes on the US consumer either directly or indirectly despite whatever nonsense dear leader spouts and a couple of SA tankers had “accidents” just as the Abe Lincoln carrier group is about to arrive in the Gulf. Either a WMD-ish false flag operation prelude or Iran wants to see how far they can get before getting punched in the face – either way, balanced and diversified with a stable hand on the tiller blog dogs…

#189 Barb on 05.13.19 at 3:06 pm

“The NDP is the party of victims.”

Well said, Garth, well said!

Communism, here we come.

#190 Barb on 05.13.19 at 3:17 pm

#24 Joe Vancouver on 05.12.19 at 5:19 pm

Escaped Communism from Eastern Europe 30 years ago. The mindset of Canadians is becoming quite concerning.

————————————

My parents did too.
From East Germany 63 years ago, where everything had been taken away from everyone since WWII.

#191 Not relevant on 05.13.19 at 3:34 pm

The price of living in a democratic society with free market economy is that the very laws designed to guarantee the rights and freedoms of the citizens can be – and often are – exploited by undesirable elements, foreign and domestic.
Judging by the majority of comments today I gather that Canadians are not willing to pay that price and have willingly embarked on the road to a form of totalitarianism that many came to this country to get away from. How strange that a nation of people that take so much pride in this country’s pro-immigration policies refuse to learn anything from the immigrants.

#192 n1tro on 05.13.19 at 4:01 pm

#187 Shego on 05.13.19 at 2:46 pm
“If you have nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear”, which is another way of saying: “Anyone who’s afraid of being persecuted should be persecuted”.
———————
^ that’s retarded logic. If someone is afraid of being persecuted for a crime they didn’t commit, they should be persecuted anyways?!

I think you meant to say…”Anyone who has fear, would have something to hide…” to be the another way of saying things.

#193 Tater on 05.13.19 at 4:29 pm

#192 n1tro on 05.13.19 at 4:01 pm
#187 Shego on 05.13.19 at 2:46 pm
“If you have nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear”, which is another way of saying: “Anyone who’s afraid of being persecuted should be persecuted”.
———————
^ that’s retarded logic. If someone is afraid of being persecuted for a crime they didn’t commit, they should be persecuted anyways?!

I think you meant to say…”Anyone who has fear, would have something to hide…” to be the another way of saying things.
————————————————————–
Always great to see someone throw around “retarded” while completely missing the point.

And the point, of that quote, is to invert the idea that only those who have done wrong should be afraid of government intrusion (which is a common retort to claims of governmental over reach) to we should ALL be afraid, because we could ALL be subject to trumped up charges.

#194 AGuyInVancouver on 05.13.19 at 6:02 pm

#142 dharma bum on 05.13.19 at 8:27 am
Herr Horgan

Sieg Heil, baby!

What’s the furor about this Fuhrer?

Anyone that can accept this is blind to their own reality.

“When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.”

– Martin Niemoller
_ _ _ _

When they came for the over-the-top-hyperbolists,
I shouted out;
“See ya’ Dharma Bum”

#195 Headhunter on 05.13.19 at 8:49 pm

Oh, so you’re a home school’er and what to make sure you and yours are only exposed to “like-minded” individuals / maybe those with a natural gift for a subject over accreditation? Got it. Makes sense now…

____________________

Accreditation IS the problem as teachers think that they were hand picked from GOD and a piece of paper is a ticket to the promised land. Schools are behind the times as tech and innovation is moving too fast

Why do you think big tech companies have their own universities? Google doenst need you to have a degree… come to us we will train you. Sorry.

#196 David Pylyp on 05.13.19 at 10:04 pm

Ontario has the same laws on the books
https://www.ontario.ca/document/crown-prosecution-manual/d-7-criminal-asset-forfeiture

Was a case where church minister provided housing to half way house / drug users and prostitutes.

House was seized (Hamilton ON ) for proceeds of drug money used to pay rents.

Scared stuff.

#197 Notagreaterfool on 05.13.19 at 11:26 pm

In irrational markets can and do include money laundering. Her , the marginal buyer sets the price especially where he is motivated to overpay ( maximize laundering )

Coupled with Horny buyers, demand side policies and low rates etc….it all ADDS up.

#198 Peter Kook on 05.14.19 at 12:36 am

Not able to prove that your money is clean?
it is not suspicion. It is a solid fact. It is proof.

Viva NDP!

Nobody cares if a north van prop goes down from 10 mils to 5 mils.

People need a good move in low range , which is not happening at all.

#199 Shego on 05.14.19 at 2:24 pm

#192 n1tro Rob Newman is a British comedian. It was a joke to illustrate the absurdity of the premise.