Outta here

The moisters moan about the cost of a condo box in YVR. The wrinklies bitch at carbon taxes, the weather and the need for a seven-figure retirement fund. Voters seek a none-of-the-above solution (look at yesterday’s Green bomb in BC) and there’s always the threat Trump could buy Canada and turn it into a resort. We can’t even win hockey any more.

So, why not think outta the box?

Like Mussomeli. This week the town in southern Italy started selling abandoned homes for one euro ($1.50). Yes, you have to cough up fees and a security deposit (about fifteen grand) then renovate, but the end result will still be less than buying a garden shed in Vancouver – with better temps.

But, wait. Can furtive little Canadian beavers actually move to Italy and become permanent residents? If so, how? What’s it cost? Is having lots of chest hair and a Lambo enough?

This pathetic blog asked a regular visitor – Dolce Vita – to answer such questions as a Canadian living there. His treatise is below. But, first, here’s the view from near his doorway, taken earlier today…

So, you want to retire/escape to Il Bel Paese that hatched the likes of da Vinci, Michelangelo, Galileo, Marco Polo, Columbus, Dante, Macchiavelli, de’Medici, Pavarotti, Marconi, Armani, Ferrari (and Mussolini, Caligula, de Pacioli – not all good, the latter of double entry accounting fame) so that you can retire and live La Dolce Vita and Il Bel Far Niente like me.

If you are a dual Italian or an EU citizen, it’s a piece of cake (me and the discussion below). As a non-EU citizen you need an EU Residence Permit. BEFORE leaving get a SIN number (Codice Fiscale, CF) from your Italian Consulate. Next (from the Consulate again) get an Italian or EU passport so no issues when entering Italia. Taxation on Cdn. pensions: reciprocal agreement not to tax CPP or OAS. The rest, best to lay low (the Italian Gov. will know and are forgiving unless you are a 1%’er, then it’s on…again, go talk to the Italian Consulate, apparently a one-time 7% tax to transfer wealth to Italia from Canada).

Now (and in this order) find a place to live so you have an address (rent or buy, Garth’s advice applies). With your CF, passport and proof of address in hand go to your local municipal office and apply for a Resident Identity Card (Carta D’Identita). When you get that go to your local National Health Service office, Servizio Sanitario Nazionale (SSN), and get a SSN card – free national healthcare for residents (you’ll need it to buy cigs from a vending machine when the Tabacchi are closed).

CAUTION: Italia will slow you down to her pace and will NOT speed up for you (newly arrived me gave up trying). Italian bureaucracy is glacial. Patience a virtue, the rewards high.

ASIDE: Let the Canadian Government and your bank know, after 6 months, of your residency in Italia (with address etc.) in case of an emergency and as an Italian resident you will no longer  be able to contribute to your TFSA, so top it off before leaving. Let your credit card holder know too, most will let you keep the card, sending a renewal to you in Italia (good to know: cash back cards like Visa Infinite credit Italian grocery, pharmacy and gas purchases).

FINANCIAL, LIVING: Age of the Internet, you can do all your banking by phone or PC. Canadian ATMs work at the Bancomat machines (no service fee) BUT you’ll need an Italian bank account to get services like electricity and gas. Find a local Fineco Bank branch, set up an account – they’re about the best online banking service in Italia, site in English as well and backed by UniCredit, their largest branch office bank (UniCredit online not so good). Record your IBAN number (like a SWIFT code, really long, you’ll need it to transfer money to yourself in Italia from Canada). They use the IBAN for a lot things in Italia like getting Italian phone service – privacy is lost on Italians (so save the SJW Canadian indignity, rage for Canada, when in Rome do as the…).

I bought a modest 75 sq. m. top floor condo (apartamento) with marble and real wood floors, tile everywhere else, small terrazzo for about €92 K in Pordenone, FVG, where I live. It’s near everything.

Here are my “basic” expenditures per month (I am single):

Condo Fees incl. Taxes, Water, Heating, €165
Electricity w/ENEL €70
Gas W/ENEL €15
Garbage, Recycling €8, paid as a yearly lump sum fee
Cellphone & Fast Internet w/TIM + Netflix (UHD) + PIA’s VPN €50
Food €125 to €200 (high during Christmas, Easter, includes excellent wines – I do not eat out, I can cook just fine..that’s another story)
————————————
Total €500 per month, max.

The farther South you go the less expensive it gets (especially for buying or renting). Heating, to conserve energy in my city, they TURN IT OFF mid-day and very late at night in Winter (a National conserve energy thing). Invest in a small space heater or live farther South (still, my city of Pordenone much warmer than YVR in Winter).

TRANSPORTATION: You really don’t need a car in Italia. Train or bus excellent and for the rest use sardine can RyanAir (cheap and fast, e.g., TSF to NAP < 1 hr 20 min., €47 return). Buy a bicycle instead and lower your Carbon Footprint (like Lefty me). Car rentals cheap if you are not in a tourist city.

LIFESTYLE (La Dolce Vita, Il Bel Far Niente): Italians are seasonal creatures by habit. In the Summer you will find us at the beach. Save Liguria’s rocky Cinque Terre, near 7,600 km of the coastline is beach (227 Blue Flag beaches and not like Spain’s windy sand blasting beaches or Greece’s near total rocky crag, shipped in sand beaches which you can find the carbon copy of in Puglia, all along the heal of Italy, minus all the rocks, shitty food, cramped quarters w/natural sand, etc.). In Winter you will find us in the Alps or Apennines.

As for the rest, Italia is an open air museum that you are all well acquainted with. From Roma, to Venezia, to Firenze, to Verona, to Milano, to Napoli and its Costiera Amalfitana (see Naples and die, understatement of a lifetime), Palermo, Cagliari, and on and on – there is something in Italia for everyone to suit their lifestyle. Come visit us and discover the natural beauty, history, culture, cuisine and the crazy food and drink obsessed Italiani of Italia. I have travelled all of Italia’s 20 Regions. You will not regret it. Better yet, come live in Italia.

Viva L’Italia e Viva Garth.

201 comments ↓

#1 Humbled Apostle on 05.07.19 at 3:38 pm

What, no food tips?

Superb job Dr. Garth, as usual.

#2 bdwy sktrn on 05.07.19 at 3:51 pm

nice info there, but that pic is not for me.

i’m looking out my front window to the sun dousing an explosion of green.
hundreds of trees, flowers, bushes, grass plenty of space and everyone is gone to work/school so total peace and quiet.

beach 5 min.
mts 10-15.
boat/marina 20
real italian food/cafe 2 blocks walk
downtown 5 min

that dirty old street would feel like a prison to me, but to each their own!

i have learned i like space, a lot of it.

#3 AGuyInVancouver on 05.07.19 at 4:02 pm

The street looks lovely to visit, but I would miss the trees and ocean. And the government shuts down your heat? That sound slike communism!

I do agree Italy and Europe in general has vastly more opportunities for culture, it is all a trade off I guess.

#4 Hana on 05.07.19 at 4:02 pm

Thanks for the info Dolce Vita. I am non-EU citizen (Canadian passport only) and considering spending some time in Italy in my retirement.
Are you saying that I can get Italian passport?
“As a non-EU citizen you need an EU Residence Permit. BEFORE leaving get a SIN number (Codice Fiscale, CF) from your Italian Consulate. Next (from the Consulate again) get an Italian or EU passport so no issues when entering Italia.”
Thanks in advance.

#5 Keith on 05.07.19 at 4:07 pm

There will be a mass migration back to Europe from North America over the next three decades. My sister in law and brother in law are in the process of moving from New Jersey to Tomar Portugal, a medieval village with a fort, church and nunnery built by the Knights Templar.

They bought a seven bedroom, four bath house with swimming pool on an acre and a half, needs intermediate renovations for 190k U.S. dollars. An hour and a half from Lisbon.

Top of the line private supplementary health care is 250 euros a month each, would cost 1250 per month U.S. each person. Electrical and plumbing redone, $7000 – it would cost $25,000 in New Jersey. Food, dining out, travel costs are far cheaper – from Lisbon you can get a deal on Ryanair to go to any European capital for a modest amount of money as pointed out in the blog post.

My inlaws expect to cash in on pilgrims walking the central Portugese Camino de Santiago which goes right past the house, they will buy and renovate properties to rent to ex pats or do vacation rentals, and make some pretty tasty marmalade from the orange trees on their property. They hear more English in Tomar than they did in Cuban American Union city New Jersey, although my sister in law is reasonably fluent in Portugese.

Your CPP and OAS can go much farther in some parts of the world than in Canada, and with so many people with no pension and modest savings, it’s a long cold winter in Canada when you don’t have the money.

Great description of the realities of the cost of living. I am surprised at how cheap the apartment is, but I haven’t heard of Pordenone. Time to google.

#6 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 4:09 pm

Food has entirely different taste in Italy. Fresh fish from the fishermen, fresh green salad. Priceless.
Weather is great.
Health Care – excellent.
Property taxes – very low.
Relaxed life with people spending their time at caffes, enjoying life.
Buildings and houses that last centuries, no cornflake homes/glass condos.

#7 bdwy sktrn on 05.07.19 at 4:11 pm

this is 45 min from downtown van (bring your boat) , it’s where we go for more space and to watch orcas and eagles

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F2%2F21%2FNorth-from-Keats-Island.jpg&f=1

the view is far better than this pic implies.
it’s dog friendly too!

italy for a winter or 2, in the far south , perhaps.

#8 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 4:26 pm

And the color of the Mediterranean, Adriatic seas, train trips to Vienna, France, Germany, Switzerland. Amazing mountains and ski resorts in the Alps.

In spring and autumn, the most beautiful place on earth.
10-25 % of cost of living when compared to Canada.
You can have your beer at the beach.

Stupidity has its price.

#9 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 4:36 pm

#2 bdwy sktrn

Here is what little 50 K population Pordenone looks like with some sun in Winter (Siberian cold front today, menacing skies, parka weather at 15 deg C for us in the image I sent Garth today for the Blog):

https://i.imgur.com/3DTGeaK.jpg

And 1 of my nearby beaches, Lignano Sabbiadoro (not like murky YVR “beaches” and you can swim in ours without fear of something like Victoria’s effluent wafting your way):

https://i.imgur.com/6dxKPtR.jpg

To the right of the beach photo, around the bend…there’s another +40 km or so of beach and it’s just like that all the way to Venezia. Eat your heart out your little, poser “Wreck Beach” – nudity not an issue to us…but, a big deal in sexually repressed YVR.

And yes, we have mountains too, a hop and ski away Cortina d’Ampezzo (also a former Olympic venue):

https://i.imgur.com/YXUCikr.jpg

BTW, your trip from Boundary Rd. to Abbotsford, takes me to Venezia or Verona or to the beaches (and 10 km to the Alps).

Also, just outside of Pordenone you have a plethora of vineyards (Prosecco, Merlot, Pinot Grigio, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Nero, Tokai, and on an on). Want green, we have it spades other than in Winter.

Outside on my small terrazzo, I grow year round: Bay, Sage, Rosemary, Oregano, Thyme, Tarragon, Parsley and Chives. Got that in your Boundary Rd. garden or your neighbors’?

Had an apricot tree too, but it got too big and I gave it my relatives with a farm. Tried a lemon tree too, same thing, it got too big. Decided to drop the orange tree idea, not enough space.

Got that in “green” YVR?

Greener than even you can imagine. And yes, we have Cherry & Magnolia trees too, not a big deal here, we have much more than that to enjoy.

Face it, you live in a very large cramped N. American anthill of a city consisting largely of concrete, glass, steel, asphalt; have no open air twice a week markets of fresh local and S. Italian produce (ours not like your GMO veggies and fruit, steroid juiced and antibiotic infused meat), you have no open air piazzas like we have in Pordenone or in virtually every town and city in Italia and largely no vehicle streets in the DT.

We have cities for the living, you, cities for the walking dead.

You are piss proud about things that the average Italian would not even give a thought to…like me.

#10 NoName on 05.07.19 at 4:37 pm

@ la vida loca

Marco Polo was Croatian by the way, and some time ago i came across this Michelangelos Tuscany villa for 10000 sq ft for 10mil.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/michelangelo-tuscany-villa/amp

#11 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 4:40 pm

#4 Hana

Passport if you are dual, sorry.

Once a resident then the passport I think is how it works.

Not sure how the non-EU thing works. I’m dual or if you are EU, like I said.

#12 Kenny H on 05.07.19 at 4:42 pm

I have been thinking the same thing lately. What’s in it for me to stay here anymore. Outrageous house prices. Skyrocketing rents. Declining rental vacancy rates. Same for mobile phone, internet, food, taxes, electric bills etc. Healthcare even not what it once was.

Some countries can grant residency with proof of very low levels of income (Argentina, Uruguay, Ecuador, Portugal and southeast Asia) All with much better weather. I work online and wake up everyday asking myself what I am doing here.

Plus, not having any debts I bet I could live someplace on 2k a month like a king.

#13 I’m stupid on 05.07.19 at 4:43 pm

I’m in the process of getting my son his Italian passport. I figure why not give him as many options as possible. Question for you Dolce; my parents were born in Italy which automatically gives me the right to become a citizen. I’m 40 now and thought about spending my winters in the south of Italy when it’s time to retire (since the cost of health insurance for seniors is astronomical and non existent if you have health issues). I figured Italy would be a good option in the event I’m in poor health. In my situation would I need to become a resident to be able to access free healthcare or am I entitled to it because I have an Italian passport and am the son of Italians?

#14 Dave on 05.07.19 at 4:47 pm

Italy is a beautiful place and is exceptional in every way but prefer canadian schooling for my kids. Plus the beaches are way too nudy!!!

#15 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 4:47 pm

#7 bdwy sktrn

If I didn’t know any better from reading your prior Comments, today, you read a local yokel hick.

Here, Italy has whales too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T2UXXHhcuE

Here are we have birds of prey too (even vultures):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjGNuN-qpMg

Get out of BC, live a little, stop being so parochial.

#16 Bigriders Nonno on 05.07.19 at 4:50 pm

uppa Uppa UPPA da price ofa da housa she’sa gonna go. I no care whatta you say Garth. She’sa gonna keepa go Uppa. But I no come here today for disa conversazione.

I coma here today to giva you a patta ona da back for discovering just how great italia is. Just tink about it. So many ofa Italiano’s immigated to disa agreat country Canada witha nutting anda in many cases dey make a millions and a billions (ina some cases, tink builders, developers ,construction etc.) froma da real estata and yet dey stay and pay more den they fair a share ina da community to maka dis place so great too. From alla da jobs Italians created over past 60 years to all ofa da construction development, dey shoulda be most proud out of everybody for sure.

I tanks you again for todays a post veramento.

#17 Ryan on 05.07.19 at 4:54 pm

Does anyone have any forums or blogs that go into more detail about this process? I am serious, I’d move to Italy in a heartbeat if this was legit. Can you actually own property and get a EU passport if you are not a EU or Italian citizen? How is this possible? So many questions, I will be researching this more. Thanks Dolce Vita!

#18 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 4:54 pm

#10 NoName

True.

Also recall back then, you largely belonged to Venezia.

In part why your cities, especially coastal, are so gorgeous and with beautiful architecture not withstanding the natural beauty of inner Croatia…a well kept secret between yourselves and we Italians of the NE…shhhh, don’t tell anyone or they’ll turn your cities and back country into Tourist Disneyland Venezia.

And, the current comes up the coast from Croatia and flows down the East Side of Italia, it’s warmer on Croatian beaches in Summer.

#19 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 4:59 pm

#7 bdwy sktrn

In a butt head mood.

Do you have these off your coast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2pX4afenrA

or these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPE4ZYzruCs

They taste very good fresh.

I have more if you’d like…

#20 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 5:02 pm

#13 I’m stupid

Absolutely, you’re an Italian citizen, just formalize it with your local consulate.

Do as I did, you’re in like Flint.

The healthcare #2 in the World per WHO (#1 as of late but not official). Canada #31.

Some detractors here about that with their singular story. My own experiences say otherwise and I’ll take the word of the WHO over anyone else’s.

#21 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 5:05 pm

You know, I’m starting to see thru your EVIL PLOT Garth.

Now I get what the title “Outta here” really means.

God, is it ever exhausting being you, answering, rebutting.

Hat’s off to you Garth, as always.

I am but a pale facsimile.

#22 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 5:08 pm

#16 Bigriders Nonno

Saluta il Nonno e dagli un grande abbraccio e bacio per me.

Ciao d’Italia, il Giardino del Mondo.

#23 Jacques Shellacque on 05.07.19 at 5:09 pm

Isn’t the Mediterranean model (no kids, loads of debt) even more unsustainable in the medium run than a half-mil skybox in a cold Canadian city? And not to ruffle the feathers of the politically correct, but there are some, (ahem), social issues to account for with certain segments being rather excitable. If your time horizon is 10 years, I guess why not? If longer, it’s probably worth a longer, harder look.

#24 Slim on 05.07.19 at 5:10 pm

Why did so many Italians immigrate to North America?

#25 The Wet One on 05.07.19 at 5:11 pm

When I visited, oh many moons ago, there were more police in Rome (of 4 or 5 different types) than I have ever seen anywhere before or since.

Granted that was Rome.

Is it the same still?

Also, I get the sense that Italy isn’t really exceptionally well governed. I mean, it’s better than a lot of the world, but not what a Canuck is accustomed to.

If you’re just retiring there, probably that doesn’t matter. If you’re a yonger moister who wants to live the bulk of their life, well, it may be something to consider.

Like, will you be considered a human being in Italy? Will you be treated like one? For those of us of non-European descent, these are things to consider. Especially vis-a-vis the government where they might one day decide to send you to a death camp (as happened in the past). Not saying those days are coming, but I am saying look into it.

I’d never live in the U.S. (and these days even visit) for just that reason. My family were refugees from the U.S. for just that reason. They still don’t view us as humans down south either.

I know it’s not top of mind for people, but it’s worth looking into. In extremis, these kinds of investigations might just save your life and that of your loved ones.

#26 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 5:13 pm

Getting late here in Il Bel Paese.

Will try and answer questions domani people, if there are any more.

Not a word of a lie by me, retire here if you hate the cold (or wet) and want a nice pace of life that you can quickly jump start any time you want.

If you make your living of off a PC, independent of location and are single…what on God’s Green Earth are you waiting for?

#27 Linda on 05.07.19 at 5:14 pm

‘Dolce’ paints a very tempting picture. 500 euros per month translates into less than $10,000 CAD per year living expenses. Presumably one would double the cost of living for a couple. ‘Dolce’ does mention purchasing a condo but renting is also an option.

While CPP is paid regardless of address, I was under the impression that OAS is only paid to residents in Canada. Maintaining a residence in Canada & living here for however many months per year may permit one to collect OAS even if one lives somewhere else, but the point of this guest post appears to be moving digs on a permanent basis. Warmer, less expensive, better living conditions possible. ‘Dolce’ is also correct about the excellent public transit, though service may be suspended at any time due to strikes. However the Europeans have a very civilized way of dealing with strikes – they warn the public in advance so no one is caught by surprise when services are suspended.

#28 Bonhomme Carnaval on 05.07.19 at 5:14 pm

Italia’s expensive compared to Portugal, Greece, and Croatia.

Food. Depends what you like ; France and Spain have more *** Guide Michelin restaurants.

All things are relative.

Bottom line, Canada’s expensive. Very expensive!

Lastly, I wouldn’t raise kids in Europe, at least not Southern Europe.

#29 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 5:20 pm

#23 Jacques Shellacque on 05.07.19 at 5:09 pm
Isn’t the Mediterranean model (no kids, loads of debt) even more unsustainable in the medium run than a half-mil skybox in a cold Canadian city? And not to ruffle the feathers of the politically correct, but there are some, (ahem), social issues to account for with certain segments being rather excitable. If your time horizon is 10 years, I guess why not? If longer, it’s probably worth a longer, harder look.

You are brainwashed.

The truth is that Canadians actually don’t have kids due to exceptionally high cost of living, not Italians.

Canadians have much higher private debt than Italians and higher total debt than Italians, I posted links many times on this.

With Italian passport you can live and work anywhere in EU.

People in Canada are intentionally lied to about the state of the affairs in Europe. There are almost no immigrants from Europe to Canada in the last 10-15
years.

When I was posting here that Romania who people love to look down to actually might have already higher standard of living than Canada people were laughing.

Canada was relatively fine 20 years ago. Since than it was downhill, ‘lifestyle’ subsidies by debt.

High cost of living, bad weather, European taxes with worse than US benefits, people living in basements/the only place on earth.

Exceptionally stupid sheeple.

#30 Edwardo on 05.07.19 at 5:21 pm

I’d pay 500 euro not to have to live on that street. Ocean front or fogetaboutit.

#31 Blacksheep on 05.07.19 at 5:23 pm

For those so inclined, this is an interesting resource:

https://www.theearthawaits.com/

#32 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 5:23 pm

#28 Bonhomme Carnaval on 05.07.19 at 5:14 pm
Italia’s expensive compared to Portugal, Greece, and Croatia.

Food. Depends what you like ; France and Spain have more *** Guide Michelin restaurants.

All things are relative.

Bottom line, Canada’s expensive. Very expensive!

Lastly, I wouldn’t raise kids in Europe, at least not Southern Europe.

You are exactly at the right place, please stay there.


Healthy emotional and social development in early years lay the foundation for mental health and resilience throughout life. An estimated 1.2 million children and youth in Canada are affected by mental illness—yet, less than 20 per cent will receive appropriate treatment.

By age 25, approximately 20 per cent of Canadians will have developed a mental illness. Youth who are engaged in child and adolescent mental health services, and who require continued services, are also often not well supported as they prepare to enter the adult mental health system.

https://www.mentalhealthcommission.ca/English/what-we-do/children-and-youth

#33 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 5:24 pm

#25 The Wet One

Just read it. Do not worry about the Migrant, or color, or orientation issues.

What you see in N. American MSM is a crock of BS for the most part. Lefty media that hates Italia for having gone Populist with their Gov.

We are the only G7 EU country happy with our Gov (ask the Germans, Brits and French how they feel).

Do not worry about color, sexual orientation, etc., just observe our immigration laws is all we ask. In fact, the current immigration laws under Salvini were revised/drafted by an African immigrant and long time Italian citizen and not from a former Italian colony either.

To give you an idea.

It is a pluralistic society and you have better MSM here with a balance of numerous left, right and center sources UNLIKE Canada and the USA which are SO LEFT DOMINATED as to be nauseating (and I’m a Lefty, I came to see this away from Canada…I watch Canadian, Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver TV news every day along with Italian and EU news).

In my town, many Ghanian’s from when they had a crisis, I think about 10 years ago in that country, and they’re happy campers here in Pordenone. I will say, they do adapt to our ways.

Our culture is thick and ancient and 2nd to nobody’s. Almost all want to be a part of it and not recreate ghetto’s from whence they came from.

#34 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 5:25 pm

#30 Edwardo on 05.07.19 at 5:21 pm
I’d pay 500 euro not to have to live on that street. Ocean front or fogetaboutit.

———————–

That basement in GTA is above 1000 euro already.

Try another pitch.

#35 jess on 05.07.19 at 5:33 pm

https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories-en/2019/05/07/grand-theft-europe/
A Europe-wide investigation by 63 journalists from 30 countries, coordinated by CORRECTIV.

Key Findings Full Story

It is the largest ongoing tax fraud in Europe: criminal gangs are stealing €50 billion every year from EU members states, according to the EU commission.
The losses are made worse by a lack of cooperation between EU members. Germany in particular is obstructing joint measures in fighting the tax fraud.
Fraudsters are now eyeing the market for green power certificates.
Islamist networks have used the fraud to finance terror.
CORRECTIV has followed in the footsteps of one fraudster who played a major role in a high profile VAT fraud carousel. Our investigation reveals how this type of organized crime works and how governments in Europe struggle to combat it.

=======”
The story of Amir B. shows how a clever teenager rose from mobile phone trader to tax carousel lynchpin within just a few years. Following his tracks reveals the structure of the fraud system and the difficulties the authorities face in the war against VAT fraud.

Most people don’t realize why it’s so much cheaper to buy mobile phones on eBay rather than from the manufacturer direct. But not Amir Baha (name changed) who understood perfectly when as a 16-year-old schoolboy he started selling mobiles in a city in Germany’s North Rhine Westphalia. “All around the world people know: if you want to sell mobiles in Germany, they have to come from fraud. Otherwise there’s no money in it.” That’s how he summed it up nearly a decade later to prosecutors in Cologne.

Baha was a smart kid who rose to be a multi-millionaire in the space of a few short years. He was at home at Dubai’s nightclubs and flew first class. He traded mobile phones, game consoles, copper electrodes and even certificates for carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. At the time of his arrest, he was running eleven companies registered in other people’s names.

He did not, however, earn his money from mark-ups on these products but from the tax he stole. By moving his merchandise in circles across borders and without paying value-added tax (VAT), he siphoned off millions from state coffers, tricking the authorities into paying him and his partners money they weren’t owed. Opinions differ as to how much exactly. Insiders estimate €110 million, one prosecutor puts the number at €60 million, a court verdict against Baha at €40 millionIn any case, a huge amount for somebody who traded in mobile phones. An employee with an above-average salary of €5,000 per month would have to work 1,600 years to earn €100 million. In his crowd, however, Baha was only a medium-sized player.

This kind of crime, dubbed ‘VAT carousels’ or Missing Trader Intra-Community (MTIC) fraud, is costing Germany from €5 billion at the low end of estimates to anything up to €14 billion annually. As Europe’s largest economy, the losses are higher than elsewhere. But VAT fraud carousels are an EU-wide problem with the EU commission fixing the total annual tax loss at around €50 billion.

In October last year, CORRECTIV published its investigation into the highly complex share deals known as Cum-Ex, which are designed to ‘reclaim’ tax that was never in fact paid. The Cum-Ex operators require the assistance of teams of highly sophisticated lawyers and bankers to help engineer the trades. By contrast, VAT fraud, some reckon, is Cum-Ex for the masses. read more at:

https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories-en/2019/05/07/grand-theft-europe/

#36 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 5:33 pm

#30 Edwardo

Last response.

If I turned the other way and took a photo, you would have seen a modern street, 6 storey trees that canopy it on both sides, bars, shops, etc., with the Alps in the background.

That’s the 9th and 10 century part of town, the bell tower I think is 13th century. That period not everybody’s cup of tea. I get that.

It had an Italian flag, looked old, so I took the shot.

#37 paracho on 05.07.19 at 5:33 pm

Great info.
Something I have an option to do in my future .
I am a Croatian Canadian born and raised in Toronto . Lived almost 30 years in Woodbridge surrounded by mostly southern Italians. Most my life really.
My 85 year old father lived in Friuli for about 2 years as a refugee from the former communist Yugoslavia in the late 40s to early 1950s.
Dad has coastal property on the Adriatic and a place he goes to 4 months of the year in Zadar. A ferry ride from Pescara or Ancona Italy.
The AustralianCroatian condo complex has monthly fees of 18 Euro per month. Heat and electricity are cheap. But gasoline and some groceries are Toronto prices .
Gasoline is more expensive in Croatia and Otaly is about 15% to 20% more than Croatia .
There are a lot of Italian tourists that come to Zadar each year and claim to live it .
But I find the prices more tame in Italy’s and a larger selection of better and cheaper food . The beaches though are just as clean or nice.
Was openly wondering ; as a Croatian citizen who also has dual Canadian citizenship … can I purchase a place at fire sale rates in southern Italy ?
Croatia is part of the EU
Can any of the above answer this for me or contact me directly at [email protected]

#38 Bob on 05.07.19 at 5:37 pm

Dolce Vita…wow, just wow.

Can you adopt me….?

#39 JSS on 05.07.19 at 5:37 pm

Sorry but i have to ask this question to Dolce Vita… how are the women there? thank you.

#40 bdwy sktrn on 05.07.19 at 5:38 pm

#15 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 4:47 pm

Get out of BC, live a little, stop being so parochial.
——————-
garth as mod is far less sensitive, touched a nerve?
sorry, your street insn’t dirty. better now?

and thx for your concern, spent a month there in 89 about a decade before i ever set foot in BC.

rome, florence, venice, naples, brindisi… was ok but out of all of western europe the italians and the french seem like they are having a contest over who can be the most sour and bitchy, to tourists, at least.

#41 yielding on 05.07.19 at 5:43 pm

but but … . me no speak Italian … and few in Italia speak English .. enough for a conversation .

ok as a tourist but to live .. no way . .too hard .. too lonely

#42 Dogman01 on 05.07.19 at 5:44 pm

75 Sq Meter = 807 Sq Ft
1 Euro – 1.51 Cad$

It all sounds enticing.

What does a one year rent look like?

I ponder……

#43 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 5:44 pm

#28 Bonhomme Carnaval

World’s top restaurant:

No.1. Osteria Francescana. Modena, Italy.

Those countries you mentioned, their food is hideous.

Ask the French that created your guide…they will tell you that the only other country in Europe to get a decent meal outside of France is in Italia, why they come here in droves from France and they feel safer here they say than in their own country when travelling. And, they are Italia’s largest export market, for good reason. The French have taste, and if you are from La Belle Province and a Quebecois, shame on you.

Those countries you mention, they fry the dung out of everything.

Just look around you in Canada, at the plethora of pizza, pasta and espresso bars you have – 1 on every street corner. Italia gave birth to that, not those countries you mention.

The people have voted with their stomachs and pocketbooks.

#44 MF on 05.07.19 at 5:46 pm

Yawn boring post, but I guess we cannot just talk about important stuff like finance and politics all the time.

Italy is clearly beautiful, and Italians are great. It’s one of the countries in Europe I would visit.

#24 Slim on 05.07.19 at 5:10 pm
Why did so many Italians immigrate to North America?

-This post is just fluff. Speak to any young Italians who were born oversees to find out. Also Italy has gone through some real rough periods in the past (WW2 as an example).

MF

#45 Pfft on 05.07.19 at 5:50 pm

@#29 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 5:20 pm

Healthy emotional and social development in early years lay the foundation for mental health and resilience throughout life. An estimated 1.2 million children and youth in Canada are affected by mental illness—yet, less than 20 per cent will receive appropriate treatment.

By age 25, approximately 20 per cent of Canadians will have developed a mental illness. Youth who are engaged in child and adolescent mental health services, and who require continued services, are also often not well supported as they prepare to enter the adult mental health system.

https://www.mentalhealthcommission.ca/English/what-we-do/children-and-youth
______________________________

apparently stan brooks didn’t recieve this foundation.

#46 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 5:52 pm

#37 paracho on 05.07.19 at 5:33 pm

Croatia is a member of EU.

You can live, work anywhere in EU freely.

#47 oh bouy on 05.07.19 at 5:53 pm

italy is a nice place to visit no doubt.
Folks there are actually nice as well.
Nowhere near arrogant as dolce.

#48 Thedood on 05.07.19 at 5:56 pm

Italia is truly a beautiful place. Have not seen it all – Rome, Pompeii, Naples, Amalfi coast, Capri are the places I’ve been and I would go back to all tomorrow if the chance presented itself. Food is awesome, weather is awesome, people are awesome – and good looking too!

The world has a lot of options for people who are open to different lifestyles and have the means to support themselves. Canada has alot to offer, but its cold and expensive!

#49 NoName on 05.07.19 at 5:58 pm

#37 paracho on 05.07.19 at 5:33 pm

yes you as forign pesron can buy, but there are restrictions on agri. land. So if plan is to buy property with huge vineyard you might be out of luck…

Nevertheless, most major European countries (e.g., France, Germany, Italy, Spain and UK) allow overseas investors to buy residential and commercial real estate with the same rights as local citizens.

https://tranio.com/articles/european_limitations_on_foreign_property_purchases/

And another thing about those condos in cro, most of them are 100yrs lease, i have no idea what happens after, but in a one hundered year definitely noone livibg today be bothered a bit whats gonna happen with lease.

#50 Sierts on 05.07.19 at 5:59 pm

#25 The Wet One on 05.07.19 at 5:11 pm

Then you should consider, to come to South America.
Here the chance to be killed for the colour of your scin is very small.
(if they kill you, it will be for money or honour)

#51 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 6:00 pm

#37 paracho

Yes, on fireside prices in the South.

It is drop your mouth stunning down there. If it were not that all my relatives are located where I live, I’d be living in the South.

One Commenter wanted ocean beach front, here are some towns in Calabria and in the Bay of Naples:

Scilla (fresh swordfish here):

https://i.imgur.com/4hOXt2A.jpg

and its waters:

https://i.imgur.com/kYWpnxb.jpg

The Island of Procida:

https://i.imgur.com/RJjPOEB.jpg

It goes on and on like this in the S. of Italia.

Go here and search for properties in Italia, in Chrome hit Translate to English:

https://www.immobiliare.it/

You can search by region, town or draw on a map the areas you are interested in.

#52 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 6:01 pm

#47 oh bouy

Fair enough, it’s the AB in me.

#53 old dinosaur on 05.07.19 at 6:03 pm

Thanks so much for your perspective Dolce!

Judging by some of the comments I wouldn’t even reply to them.

They are not the people you want to move there anyway.

The socialist regimes of Canada need afraid provincial thinking zombies – not worldy adventure takers…

#54 Slim on 05.07.19 at 6:06 pm

I’m first generation Canadian and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. Thank very much.

#55 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 6:08 pm

#44 MF

The post is about the possibility of a Canadian retiring in Italia.

The youth unemployment is another issue and it is tragic in Italia to say the least. My area is well off, so a lot of S. Italian’s come here to find work.

I mean I met 2 very young Italian nurses at the coffee shop in Park Güell, Barcelona the other year and they’re from Catania, Sicilia.

Couldn’t find any work in Italia. Found in London. They say they would rather live in Italia but out of the question, they would have to work doing something else and for low wages.

I felt so bad for them, indeed. Yes, a big problem for Italian youth.

But the Blog is about retiring in Italia today, a lifetime apart in theme.

#56 jess on 05.07.19 at 6:10 pm

Beginning in January 2019, Italy has made electronic invoicing mandatory allowing tax officials to monitor trade in real time.

Germany in particular is struggling to combat VAT fraud as the tax is levied by the countries’ 16 regional states whose tax offices and prosecutors are reluctant to cooperate with each other. Germany is also reluctant to join EU-wide initiatives to share more data between member states over fears this could threaten its precious secrecy in tax matters. The United Kingdom has achieved considerable success by aggressively prosecuting VAT fraud. Convicted fraudsters for example can receive life sentences. Tax investigators have wide-ranging powers, facing lower hurdles when inspecting companies and freezing funds than their counterparts in other countries. Estonia has introduced real-time, electronic monitoring of its fuel trade, a sector in which it was particularly hit by VAT fraud in the past. Beginning in January 2019, Italy has made electronic invoicing mandatory allowing tax officials to monitor trade in real time.

#57 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 6:12 pm

#41 yielding

Italian’s are obliged to be bilingual, learn a 2nd language at school.

70% opt for English. 30% for French. So according to my relatives and their kids…well, at least in the NE of Italia.

So we can understand you in English. It’s just you understanding our broken English that’s the problem as I read it.

But hey, we’ll do anything for a tourist buck, even humor you.

#58 Hawk on 05.07.19 at 6:13 pm

Have visited Italy about 4 times as a tourist and hope to again a few more times, if God wills.

Number 1 place in the world if you like art and architecture (as I do) and since I have been to over 75 countries, I’d say I have some perspective.

That said, not sure that living is the same thing as visiting. An old Italian, I met in Bari in my last visit, told me that La Dolce Vita (the sweet life) does not really exist for most people as it’s a function of income/taxes/employment etc, all of the same struggles that we have. My guess is that these struggles exist for the average person in any country in the world and you can’t escape them by running away.

That said, there is also one major negative in Canada that I am seeing of late, which is rising unemployment and under employment. The GTA is a very difficult place to live if one is only living on investment income, and no more lucrative contract work is available.

So in that sense I do agree with the poster who mentioned that there may eventually be an exodus from N. America. For people on fixed income, phasing in to their retirement years, the pastures are looking greener in other parts of the world.

#59 MF on 05.07.19 at 6:13 pm

#29 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 5:20 pm

Okay let’s rip apart this troll’s useless drivel:

“The truth is that Canadians actually don’t have kids due to exceptionally high cost of living, not Italians.”

-Italian fertility rate: 1.3
-Canadian fertility rate: 1.5

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sp.dyn.tfrt.in

“People in Canada are intentionally lied to about the state of the affairs in Europe. There are almost no immigrants from Europe to Canada in the last 10-15
years.”

-Except of course if France (and England for now) are not considered European in your delusional mind:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2018/permanent-residents-admitted.html

“When I was posting here that Romania who people love to look down to actually might have already higher standard of living than Canada people were laughing.”

-We are still laughing.

“By age 25, approximately 20 per cent of Canadians will have developed a mental illness.”

-Oh the irony of this statement you posted.

MF

#60 Bob Dog on 05.07.19 at 6:16 pm

Forget trying to discuss other parts of the planet with BCers. British Columbia and especially Vancouver is absolutely the most arrogant place on earth. I have been considering Europe for years and started to get my UK (EU) passport before the dimwits voted to leave the economic union.

Reading the news of rampant money laundering in Canada I have just about had enough. This is not the country I grew up in. I am wasting precious years here in hope of a legitimate government we will never have.

I never considered Italy (having grown up in Hamilton) but I think its a possibility now.

#61 The Wet One on 05.07.19 at 6:18 pm

Thanks for the comment Dolce.

I really don’t know what Italy is like for foreigners (esp. non-European foreigners). That’s why I said look it up and investigate a bit. It could matter.

Cheers!

#62 MaxBerniersShorts on 05.07.19 at 6:18 pm

#28 Bonhomme Carnaval
…Lastly, I wouldn’t raise kids in Europe, at least not Southern Europe.
——
Of course not, but note most of the posters are well past child-rearing age and into their retirement years. Should they have to find jobs they would be singing a different tune. Italy was recently tagged as being at risk of a “perma-recession”. As they say, a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there (unless one was assured of outside pension income)

#63 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 6:19 pm

#14 Dave

Plus the beaches are way too nudy!!!

-Ya, I know.

-Blame the damn Nordic countries and Germans that come here. It’s mostly them that do that. The things we put up with just for a tourist buck.

-Ask the locals, there are many beaches without the Nordic and German tourists that strip at the drop of a hat. They’ll tell you where to find sanctuary from our nudist tourists.

#64 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 6:24 pm

#58 Hawk

It’s true what the guy from Bari told you for the locals that lived there all their lives and are on a Gov pension.Try €1,000 to tops €1,400 per month, and I think that is gross if memory serves correct.

But you would be on a Cdn. pension + private and that makes all the difference, it then becomes La Dolce Vita indeed.

But it’s not like that in all of Italia. The North is very prosperous and well off compared to the South (sadly, because I just love the South).

My retired relatives here in the NE travel a heck of a lot, China, Emirates, Russia and that’s just in the last year.

There is a big economic divide in Italia between the North (rich) and the South (not so rich).

#65 Kate on 05.07.19 at 6:25 pm

Too.Many.People…

#66 Came for the house, stayed for the laudromat on 05.07.19 at 6:25 pm

Here in lala land YVR,

The headline in this lux car ML report was AG Eby spotted exponential growth in offshore auto sales to China through thousands of ‘straw buyers’ with tens of millions in provincial tax rebates potentially lost to shady foreign sales, my quick take.

Andrew Weaver: German’s latest revelations shine more light on just how extensive money laundering is in BC. People are laundering criminal proceeds through the luxury car sector – they may have even been getting tax breaks. A public inquiry is needed, and we stamp it out completely.

David Eby says the release of the next part of the German report is ‘imminent’ and there will be a decision of a public inquiry soon.

The RE chapter to be released is what is going to open everyone’s eyes. Trillion dollar figure on it.

#67 Dogman01 on 05.07.19 at 6:26 pm

Or those interested in emigration and immigration and population patterns have a read of “Empty Planet”.
Thesis is that the population trend is going in one direction most everywhere in the world, Birthrates are plummeting and the trend is unstoppable.

Europe has a problem, and will likely need immigration to avoid a Japanese stagnation and die-out. Canada’s high immigration level is our solution.

https://www.amazon.ca/Empty-Planet-Global-Population-Decline/dp/0771050887

The authors make a compelling case that, the United Nations overstates fertility and do a good job demonstrating why, population will top out at nine billion by around 2050 (it is seven billion now) and then decline. Some declines will be precipitous and startling—China, currently at 1.4 billion but deep into the fertility trap, will have 560 million people by the end of the century.

#68 Extra Rinse Cycle on 05.07.19 at 6:28 pm

The headline in this lux car ML report was AG spotted exponential growth in offshore auto sales to China through thousands of ‘straw buyers’ with tens of millions in provincial tax rebates potentially lost to shady foreign sales.

PST rebates for washing money. Business is booMing in BC.

there will be a decision of a public inquiry soon.

The RE chapter to be released is what is going to open everyone’s eyes. Trillion dollar figure on it.

#69 Libs were SPanked on 05.07.19 at 6:32 pm

Attention, JTJust got ass whooped on Vancouver Island.

And what was the leading topic: affordable housing.

Although JT thinks everyone wants the carbon tax.

Keep, ignoring JT, keep ignoring. We will see what the polls say in Oct.

#70 Ace Goodheart on 05.07.19 at 6:32 pm

Brexit screwed over a lot of EU retirement hopefuls.

Those of us with UK citizenship until recently used to be able to move anywhere in the EU, take up residence, work, and enjoy all the benefits that the locals do.

Now that will all soon end, and former EU member UK nationals will become citizens of the Balkanized hell hole that will be the UK following brexit.

I am hoping that Scotland decides to ditch the UK and go EU following the break up. If so, and if us UK citizens are given a choice, I am going to dump England and go with Scotland to remain part of the EU. That is the plan thus far.

Brexit is the worst thing that has happened to my retirement planning in quite a while…..

#71 Tracy on 05.07.19 at 6:40 pm

My children have the EU passport and plan to leave overpriced and overtaxed Canada. Me, I am getting out of here too.

#72 Out Of Work CEO, Will Travel on 05.07.19 at 6:40 pm

Excellent blog for me as Italy represents the best LCBO products like Italian wine and Sambuco. Italy is a smart choice.

#73 Blacksheep on 05.07.19 at 6:41 pm

Canada # 1

Italy # 22

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

Seems you get what you pay for…

#74 Blame JT - nothing balancing itself on 05.07.19 at 6:41 pm

Why are the BC Libs using tax money to put a bulletin of Horgan by the Alex Fraser saying “Blame Horgan” as if he is cranking up gas prices?

Bit desperate Andrew?

Should put a billboard up near the homeless camp “Blame Libs”

Can’t use just one name. A lot of Lib rats in on the funny money train that did BC in for good.

Need to change Lib party name and give a new identity makeover to ever have another go in BC, if anyone even lives there in the future.

#75 acdel on 05.07.19 at 6:41 pm

Wow, I absolutely love this post. My goal in a few years will be the South of France but you give a very convincing idea of Italy. For me; I have no choice (and what a choice) to move on from this country. The climate is horrible, the cost of living is obscene, groceries (do not even get me started on that). Why, just why with the way this country is going would anybody stay? Free health care; now that is an oxymoron.. Safety (have you seen the crime rates lately) Thanks for this excellent article.

#76 Cristian on 05.07.19 at 6:49 pm

EXCELLENT POST!
Retiring in one year at age 58, looking forward to exploring together with family various countries in Europe, Central America, Asia and eventually settle somewhere at some point.
It’s a pity that the poster did not mention anything about healthcare (that’s one of the reasons I’ll be leaving Canada – the country with the absolute worst healthcare I’ve ever lived in – and I’ve lived in several countries over 3 continents)

#77 Headhunter on 05.07.19 at 6:50 pm

oh boy this post is so delicious its fattening!

I posted here a few months ago about a candidate from Toronto. Italian. Engineer. Went back to Italy, job at Fiat, lunch provided, long breaks. 4 weeks vaca to start.

Your right its different here

#78 BillyBob on 05.07.19 at 7:09 pm

I’ve been to both the south and north of Italy many, many times and yes, many of the superlatives to describe it are accurate. But trying so hard to convince folks that they would transition easily to their new retired life in paradise there is laughable. THAT – moving in and out of different cultures – I do have a lot of experience with.

And I’m a fan of Europe. There’s more culture in one square block of Prague than all of Canada. Not hating on Canada, just a truism borne out of the fact Canada is an infant of a nation compared to most European countries.

But Italy very much has its downsides, just like everywhere else. Sorry. A crumbling, corrupt former empire living in delusions of the past (sort of like the UK). There’s more to life than a decent pasta dish. There’s a reason far more Italians immigrated to Canada and the US than the reverse.

“You are piss proud about things that the average Italian would not even give a thought to…like me.”

Hilarious. You seem to miss that that the statement is true if you substitute the word “Canadian” or any other nationality. You need to get over yourself a bit. I know it’s cultural for latin countries to be excitable, but you’re trying too hard to be taken seriously.

Love to visit though.

#79 BillyBob on 05.07.19 at 7:12 pm

#70 Ace Goodheart on 05.07.19 at 6:32 pm
Brexit screwed over a lot of EU retirement hopefuls.

Those of us with UK citizenship until recently used to be able to move anywhere in the EU, take up residence, work, and enjoy all the benefits that the locals do.

Now that will all soon end, and former EU member UK nationals will become citizens of the Balkanized hell hole that will be the UK following brexit.

I am hoping that Scotland decides to ditch the UK and go EU following the break up. If so, and if us UK citizens are given a choice, I am going to dump England and go with Scotland to remain part of the EU. That is the plan thus far.

Brexit is the worst thing that has happened to my retirement planning in quite a while…..

=================================

I’m in the same boat. Going to throw in with the Irish in my case. They’ve always been downtrodden by the English, but they’re the ones laughing now….

#80 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 7:16 pm

#73 Blacksheep

Americani and their ratings.

The don’t know shit from clay crowd hard at it again.

They made fun of us for decades (I can attest to that), then they discovered our clothing, then they discovered our food, then they discovered our fast cars, then they discovered our coffee, then they discovered…

We’re patient and we have horse races older than America (and Canada).

#81 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 7:18 pm

#75 acdel

The South of France is gorgeous. Marseilles my favorite, Nice not far behind.

Then there’s the Principality of Monaco…

What is there not to love.

#82 Pfft on 05.07.19 at 7:21 pm

@#75 acdel on 05.07.19 at 6:41 pm
Wow, I absolutely love this post. My goal in a few years will be the South of France but you give a very convincing idea of Italy. For me; I have no choice (and what a choice) to move on from this country. The climate is horrible, the cost of living is obscene, groceries (do not even get me started on that). Why, just why with the way this country is going would anybody stay? Free health care; now that is an oxymoron.. Safety (have you seen the crime rates lately) Thanks for this excellent article.
_______________________________________

dude, people like you can’t be happy anywhere.

#83 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 7:22 pm

#70 Ace Goodheart

TRUE.

I considered the UK, to me and having gone to school there and absolutely having falling in love with that crazy island, its history and its wonderful people…it was a coin toss for me between it and Italia.

Brexit rumors then scared me away and I had relatives in NE Italia. Those were the tipping points.

But the UK is resilient, just look at its history. They are a resourceful people…they’ll be back once they sort themselves out…and they always seem to do that.

#84 Mohammad on 05.07.19 at 7:26 pm

Excellent post Garth. My parents just back from Istanbul Turkey and prices are even cheaper their. Parents plan to send their million dollar home here take the cash and live like kings in Turkey. Life is really amazing and cheap and is very similar if not better than Italy (if your a muslim)

#85 Booger Tuggle on 05.07.19 at 7:30 pm

Groan, the EU doesn’t hand out residency or passports like popcorn to persons from North America. You must be either African or Middle Eastern, including Afghanistan. Wishful thinking for a Canadian to just ‘up and move to Europe”.

Italy is EU territory max stay 120 days per year for all EU! You cant go from country to country for 120 days each. This ain’t the 70’s.

Try ditching your Canadian residency and wait for the Ka Boom from the CRA, total death blow. Deemed disposition of all assets. If you have nothing, fine, but if you’re already retired with a substantial nest egg prepare to lose half of everything. And you must have their permission to leave and like death probate the process goes into audit for years.

Some countries sell partial residency like Malta and Portugal, but the cost is a million and more. Fugettaboutit.

Dolce Vita might be dual, but for the rest, it’s no way. Only one way I know to beat the system and that is to live on the water. If you reside on a sailboat you have a right to moor off any coastline by Maritime Law. Floating along the Mediterranean South Coast is nice, I’ve done it. We have live aboard communities anchored in Canadian waters using the same trick. Vancouver’s False Creek was one such place.

Otherwise, live in whatever EU country you like for the 120 days and them migrate to Morocco or Bulgaria, any countries bordering the EU.

#86 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 7:36 pm

#67 Dogman01

That’s a very real issue and I agree about immigration.

The problem is the pace of adding immigrants to a country and its ability to integrate them all (or wanting to).

Ancient countries like Japan and Italia have very, very thick cultures and do not want to see that changed or altered by immigrants. Set in their ways? Closed minded?

Rome last year celebrated its 2,500th year anniversary. That’s a long time.

Immigrants see Canada like America, where it reinvents itself every few years. That’s the cachet. Lands of opportunity. Countries of immigrants.

Europe not so much. We’ll see what happens…population decline the result I would say as you do.

Then again, money is not everything.

#87 Linda on 05.07.19 at 7:38 pm

Looked up OAS eligibility & to my surprise it does get paid to people living outside of Canada. To receive it one must have lived in Canada for at least 20 years after the age of 18. Note that the amount will be reduced if one has not lived in Canada for at least 40 years after the age of 18. The only other caveat that is mentioned is that the country of residence have a reciprocal social security agreement with Canada. Since ‘Dolce’ mentions OAS presumably Italy is one of those countries. Food for thought!

#88 Casey on 05.07.19 at 7:47 pm

A ‘Caravan’ of Americans Is Crossing the Canadian Border to Get Affordable Medical Care

https://www.newsweek.com/caravan-americans-crossing-canadian-border-get-affordable-medical-care-1417582

#89 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.07.19 at 7:49 pm

A fun topic and interesting information!
A fascinating place to visit I’m sure.
Much appreciated.
But as someone commented earlier.
For a grumpy, stinky curmudgeon like me…..
Too many people

#90 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 7:51 pm

#84 Mohammad

Muslim or not, I had a fine time in Istanbul…let me tell you.

Nice people too and very industrious. And yes, cheap but that city is growing by leaps and bounds, construction cranes like everywhere. Pretty sure that they will become wealthy quicker than most expect and up will go costs.

Language not an issue if you speak English.

We have better beaches, sorry and our cuisine…come on, it’s a LOT better.

The street hookahs, my fav’s (lived too many years in La La Land it seems) AND Istiklal Caddesi, wow, what a fun street…but you know, even the Turks love Italian fashion judging by how many there were in our stores.

What I loved the best (shallow me) I could smoke my heart out in their top end hotels, steps away from the Istiklal Caddesi.

GRAZIE Istanbul.

I can’t to that in Italia for all the uptight “I will die from one waft of cigarette smoke” running around all day long worried about everything N. American tourists.

#91 GregW Oakviile on 05.07.19 at 7:54 pm

Hi Garth,
This is chilling!
Tucker: Big tech has launched an attack on your rights
Tucker Carlson: “Mark Zuckerberg is not simply censoring opinions, he proscribing which political opinions you’re allowed to have.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9BiTV9vvZ4

#92 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:04 pm

#78 BillyBob

Believe me when I tell you this, we know we’re in deep shit economically, admit it if you talk to us privately but we have La Familia, the great equalizer and a pint sized country that brings a smile to our face when you take a gander at her.

You know, you have to live here to understand Italia and Italians. I have lived, counting extended trips, 7 years in Italia and I am still getting to know her and her people.

She is not an open book like Canada or the USA. She reveals herself at her pace, not the frenetic N. American pace.

Fleeting generalizations, by undoubtedly the Left dominated N. American MSM you have swallowed hook, line and sinker cannot begin to understand the Italian psyche and probably never will.

Yes, many, many Italians emigrated abroad…because they had to economically, not because they wanted to. To tear themselves away from La Familia is the worst possible thing, yet they did it…no other choice.

#93 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:11 pm

#87 Linda

I was going to tell you that, but got diverted hazing some Commenters.

You have to apply, can be done online, on or after the anniversary of your 65th birthday (not there yet, but getting close).

Canada Gov is amazing and keep the cash flowing Canada, having the time of my life here in Italia.

Good point Linda, especially for soon to be retirees looking to be expats somewhere on Planet Earth.

#94 dakkie on 05.07.19 at 8:21 pm

Vancouver Housing Bust Steepens, Bank of Canada Welcomes “Froth” Coming Off

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/vancouver-housing-bust-steepens-bank-of-canada-welcomes-froth-coming-off/

#95 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:24 pm

#85 Booger Tuggle

I don’t know if all you say is true.

I’ve traveled Italia extensively and met 100’s of N. American and Brit expats, students etc. living here with residency for more than the Tourist Visa length of stay (taught at Ca’ Foscari University in Venezia for a time, met many expats there as well).

Never once did I hear them talk about the tax woes you speak of.

But you may be correct, since the expats I spoke to seemed well healed to me (a lot like Garth’s followers) and if so, tax money probably not an issue.

CRA knows I’m here, the Italian tax people know I’m here, told both everything and no problem so far after near 4 years. Then again, not a 1%’er, best I did was a 3%’er. Maybe not rich enough to be in their gun cross hairs?

I’ll ask around in my travels this year. Good observation from you.

#96 Blacksheep on 05.07.19 at 8:25 pm

#73 Blacksheep

Americani and their ratings.
——————————
I would buy that reasoning If the USA’s rating were higher, but at 17th place, they have nothing to brag about.

My wife’s and my parents, left Europe in the early 60’s because of simply too many people, penned into too small of locations, forcing too many regulations.

No disrespect meant, your post is interesting.

#97 J on 05.07.19 at 8:31 pm

I think you should run a series – how to go about living somewhere other than Canada.

#98 Chris Sam on 05.07.19 at 8:32 pm

#Dolce Vita

Everybody in Canada and the US are either immigrants or children of immigrants. Both the countries belong to First Nation and Indians respectively.

Similar to the US, Canada should bring in more skilled immigrants who actually create jobs and help the economy grow. Most of the Silicon Valley startups were started by immigrants with Master’s and PhD.

#99 yvr_lurker on 05.07.19 at 8:35 pm

Interesting pictures, but I think one would need to be European to fully appreciate its splendors. To me it looks too congested and cramped, and would have to deal with too many people in my vicinity and with too much Italian bureaucracy.

My personality is much more suitable to retiring on a northern Gulf island like Texada or Cortes or on the mainland near Lund. Lots of nature, can grow some of your own food, have a few animals, get fresh local fish, get a small boat for fishing, and be largely away from the crowds. To each their own…

#100 bubu on 05.07.19 at 8:36 pm

EU citizen here… 7 years untill retirement… I would go 5 months a year to each country instead of living only in one…. 1 year in Italy, 1 in France, 1 in Spain, etc … Summer is nice in Canada also….

#101 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:39 pm

#79 BillyBob

Like Istanbul, had the time of my life Ireland. Everything they say about those people and their ability to hold booze is all true, every word of it.

The Irish are just wonderful. Met 2 Irish couples in Amsterdam at the Banks Mansion Boutique Hotel (1 couple from the Republic and the other couple from N. Ireland). They have a free and open bar in the foirer, very well stocked (in addition they have decanters of Cognac and a few other ditties in your room for free).

At 10 AM I’d go out for my Italian passeggiata in Amsterdam and there they were parked at the bar having the time of their lives.

At 1 PM I’d return and there they were having the time of their lives.

Later that evening and there they were…

Repeat for 2 solid days.

They never missed a beat and so happy. Sat with them each day for a few hours and had to call it quits. Both couples loved Italia and had been there many times.

Ireland so much fun. I hope both Irish countries emerge from Brexit etc. unscathed. Their people deserve it.

#102 dharma bum on 05.07.19 at 8:40 pm

But do they got Tim Horton’s in Italy?

Most Canadians I know can’t live without their Timmy’s, eh?

Canadian Mangia Cakes think that Tim Horton’s offers the best food and coffee on earth.

That’s why real coffee places, with flavourful freshly ground high quality coffee and excellent freshly baked authentic pastries cannot survive in Canadian cities.

Canadians think Tim Hortons is better. The BEST!

They love the garbage artificial airline quality food and sad brown water coffee from Timmy’s, eh?

So sad, but so true.

Very few Canadians would appreciate the rich culture, history, art, science, cuisine, vino, EVOO, and beauty that Italy has to offer.

They are all about Tim’s double doubles, donuts, and on their birthdays, The Keg.

Yah, wake up, go to the Timmy’s drive thru, go to the crap job, cut out for a Tim’s run, back to work, grab a Tim’s on the way home to drink in the car…yahhhhh….life in Canada is sweeeeeeet!

The Mangia Cake Dolce Vita!

So pathetic.

#103 Mattl on 05.07.19 at 8:40 pm

Looks like a nice lifestyle for a student or retiree that has limited funds.

The thought of winding down my last years in 800 sqft of back alley doesn’t appeal to me but to each their own.

#104 David Pylyp on 05.07.19 at 8:46 pm

Many EXPATS have the dream to learn to cook in Tuscany!

https://cookintuscany.com/

Even famous Debbie Travis grows her Lavender and oils in sunny Tuscany, Italy

http://www.tuscangetaway.com/BLOG/how-it-all-began-1

Just come home for 6 months a year to keep your meds and OHIP Valid ;)

Enjoy La Dolce Vita!

#105 Another Deckchair on 05.07.19 at 8:48 pm

Interesting – I posited this with my partner a couple of years ago, and my partner reminded of this when today’s post came through, and knows where all the discussion notes are. :-)

Have to read (in depth) above posts – if one has an EU passport, and the other not – what are the implications?

Maybe already answered – will go through the comments again.

#106 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.07.19 at 8:52 pm

@Millenial Surrealist

Its just tough all over for Millennials.

https://www.scmp.com/property/hong-kong-china/article/3009215/chinas-millennials-search-ways-pool-savings-property?li_source=LI&li_medium=section-top-picks-for-you

Even in communist countries where everyone is “equal” those poor millennials cant get ahead.
But at least they know how to save.

#107 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:54 pm

#56 jess

Lots of tax evasion in Italia.

It is not like Canada, here the minimum MTR is 25%. Canada more kind to its lower earners at 15%.

VAT in Italia is over 20%, Canada GST+PST or whatever, a heck of a lot less than that.

Why they evade taxes so much. You are correct about the methods used. Purchase receipts here taken very seriously and all electronic.

And if caught, La Guardia di Finanza will not muck about with you. They make the CRA look like a bunch of school girls at Prom.

Why I declare everything whilst here…

#108 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:56 pm

#105 Another Deckchair

Good question.

Don’t know, will ask around in my travels in the EU.

#109 T on 05.07.19 at 8:56 pm

#82 Pfft on 05.07.19 at 7:21 pm
@#75 acdel on 05.07.19 at 6:41 pm
Wow, I absolutely love this post. My goal in a few years will be the South of France but you give a very convincing idea of Italy. For me; I have no choice (and what a choice) to move on from this country. The climate is horrible, the cost of living is obscene, groceries (do not even get me started on that). Why, just why with the way this country is going would anybody stay? Free health care; now that is an oxymoron.. Safety (have you seen the crime rates lately) Thanks for this excellent article.
_______________________________________

dude, people like you can’t be happy anywhere.

——–

As they say; ignorance is bliss.

I started the emigration process a few years ago. Canada is in the ditch these days and won’t be crawling out for some time.

#110 OffshoreObserver on 05.07.19 at 8:57 pm

Dolce Vita: Are you going to declare “deemed disposition” on your next T-1 and pay capital gains on that? My unrealized capital gains now are about $2MM, implying an exit tax of 22.8% = $456,000.

I have been peripatetic since 2010: first Thailand for 3 years until I had to flee the Ladyboy mafia in Pattay and Vietnam since 2014.

Bought Vietnamese GF house and 4 X 4. I live in new house “rent free.” (pictures and vids later.)

If I pulled the pin and expatriated I should net about $2.5MM after tax.

I was born and raised in Vancouver but I hate returning.

The city is rotting from within.

I am 65 and in excellent health.

I love the climate in Southeast Asia, the culture and I am close to Bangkok; Manila; Hong Kong, etc.

BTW, last time I was quoted on structuring my affairs by a CA he wafted a $100,000 fee (by implication an annuity of a readily calculated amount = divide by 10%.)

I hope Dolce Vita has opened the flood gates on this topic…?

#111 Fleeced Indeed on 05.07.19 at 8:58 pm

#37 Bdwy sktn on 05.06.19 at 7:30 pm
#44 rookie57 on 05.06.19 at 7:53 pm
#46 Evangeline on 05.06.19 at 7:59 pm
#63 SoggyShorts on 05.06.19 at 10:33 pm
#75 Bdwy sktn on 05.07.19 at 1:06 am

Sorry, I forgot to thank you as well the other folks for your suggestions (responding to my question about exchanging large amounts of CAD into USD). Much appreciated.

#112 Igor on 05.07.19 at 8:58 pm

Azores are better closer cheaper..not as hot…unspoiled…can be used as a stepping stone tonEurope and North America…and everyone speaks english

#113 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 9:00 pm

#103 Mattl

That’s a 9th century to 13th century back alley to you.

I’m a small footprint person, always have been. Could have afforded more but more than big enough for me. Besides, travel a lot and just a home base in between trips, no more.

And pray tell where do you live, for a quid pro quo response?

#114 NoName on 05.07.19 at 9:13 pm

#67 Dogman01 on 05.07.19 at 6:26 pm
Or those interested in emigration and immigration and population patterns have a read of “Empty Planet”.
Thesis is that the population trend is going in one direction most everywhere in the world, Birthrates are plummeting and the trend is unstoppable.

Europe has a problem, and will likely need immigration to avoid a Japanese stagnation and die-out. Canada’s high immigration level is our solution.

https://www.amazon.ca/Empty-Planet-Global-Population-Decline/dp/0771050887

The authors make a compelling case that, the United Nations overstates fertility and do a good job demonstrating why, population will top out at nine billion by around 2050 (it is seven billion now) and then decline. Some declines will be precipitous and startling—China, currently at 1.4 billion but deep into the fertility trap, will have 560 million people by the end of the century.

Interesting, you mention that, few weeks maybe a moth back friend of mine in conversation about this and that mention a similar thing about population peaking arund about 10B and probably flat lining and going in to decline after peak. What makes a more sense then 20 billion buy 2100.

There is an interesting part a video where vinod koshna talks about “experts” and oil price forecast for 5 and 10yrs, every single time they were wrong.
Look at a cheat on 10yrs forecast celing was st at 50-ish per barel and next 2 decades same number was used.

Now just imagine how climate expert could be wrong on global warming aka climate change. where lot more wariables comes in a play. If tey cant get oil right for 5yrs and i have to believe to un-scientist weather forecast for next 50yrs.

https://youtu.be/euXfy9c3Vuw?t=399

#115 Booger on 05.07.19 at 9:15 pm

#95 Dolce , I note the persons you mentioned are students or teachers. Those are very different visas by the way. I suppose a person could take a course of study at a university and extend their time there, but that is not ‘residence’ per se.

Sad but true, you can’t exchange a Canadian residency for Italian without extreme tax consequence. Without clarifying your status with CRA you must continue to file a Canadian tax return as well as Italy or any global residence and income.

And here’s a reason to get angry. It turns out Gerald Butts was working for an advocacy group that does not register as compliant in Canada at the same time he was twisting Trudeaus shorts into a knot in the PMO.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/05/07/former-trudeau-aide-gerald-butts-joins-consulting-firm.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=star_web_ymbii

Could this revelation be the cause of Butts fast retreat from Canada when it was discovered he was lobbying for SNC? Is Butts a spy, a mole, an unregistered lobby, a Rasputin for a secret globalist canal? Why was Butts really doing in the PMO?

Several weeks ago RT television aired a speech by Micheal Ignatieff who was exposed as a direct employee/operative of George Soros in Hungary. This caught many Canadian reporters off guard. They thought Iggy was at Harvard teaching, well, he isn’t. It shocked many . Butts possibly illegal influence in the PMO while under the employ of the Eurasia Group is highly suspicious.

#116 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 9:18 pm

#110 OffshoreObserver

Finally one of the super well healed followers of Garth speak up. Been waiting for that.

I never went to Asia, to much of a culture shock for this pauper (compared to you) expat Canadian in Italia. Although, I love the Asians – really cool people (taught them for many year in YVR even when the first PRC groups would come with their Commissar).

I have to say you’re braver than I. I bailed for family reasons (all dead in Canada, the rest are where I live).

All my investments (a heck of lot less than you) remain in Canada. The bank account in Italia, is just for incidentals when I cannot use my Canadian credit card (then I use my Italian credit card).

So no dispositions planned and on purpose. Not a fan of that 7% one time wealth tax. The hell with the lets make a deal Italians.

YVR, I dunno, it’s still one of best Canadian cities for weather alone and the backdrop, pretty fine I’d say. But the rain, taxes, militancy etc. is disparaging and I appreciate where you’re coming from.

Enjoy. Reads to me you’re a happy camper where you are, me too. That’s the important thing, to be happy where you are in retirement and to never have to look over your shoulder because of finances (me too but not with your largesse).

Why Garth’s Blog essential to the financial literacy and ultimate well being of Canadians for retirement. Hats off to him, day in day out he does and free. What more can you ask for from a fellow Canadian?

Thanks for the post. Adopt me so I can inherit (just kidding).

All the best and continued good health. Ciao d’Italia.

#117 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 9:23 pm

#112 Igor

If anything like the Canary Islands, you have to like living in a wind tunnel and to be sand blasted at the beach. Lethbridge down right pastoral compared to open sea islands off the coast of Africa.

Having said that, man did I ever have a good time in Maspalomas during Carnevale. Like Vegas, what happens in Maspalomas, stays in Maspalomas.

That’s I’ll say.

#118 hi on 05.07.19 at 9:38 pm

Here is a website to compare cost of living between to cities anywhere in the world.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

#119 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 9:45 pm

#104 David Pylyp

Thank you and absolutely correct about Toscana.

Agriturismo big in Italia. Have had friends from Canada come here and do exactly what you describe. They loved it.

Go to a farm, kick back, get fed, cook with Italian’s, do vineyard, fruit orchard, livestock, herb garden, grind your own Extra Virgin Olive Oil stuff, whatever. Many places like that in Italia.

Though, for food, our culinary epicenter is in Emilia-Romagna, at its heart Bologna (which has gotten expensive by Italian standards thanks to the tourists, still some bargains but you have to know where to go).

Go to Ferrara next time on a lark, food just as exquisite as in Bologna and for less. Modena very good too but can be pricey in the World’s #1 ranked restaurant there (not bad by Canadian standards, exorbitant by Italian standards).

Thank you again.

#120 Art on 05.07.19 at 9:52 pm

#12 Kenny H
I bet yyou arw damnd right

#121 DON on 05.07.19 at 9:54 pm

#69 Libs were SPanked on 05.07.19 at 6:32 pm

Attention, JTJust got ass whooped on Vancouver Island.

And what was the leading topic: affordable housing.

Although JT thinks everyone wants the carbon tax.

Keep, ignoring JT, keep ignoring. We will see what the polls say in Oct.
***********

Not so fast. The riding was most recently NDP and in the past it was also Conservative. They voted for Green this time as the climate is on everyone’s radar. Trudeau was never going to win this seat and it could swing back in 6 months. But the Greens are making ground. Noticed that the Conservatives only gain a point.

All the Libs need to do is show a pic of Harper meeting with Trump on Scheer’s watch.

In my opinion Lib cons never had a chance in this Island by election.

#122 DON on 05.07.19 at 9:56 pm

@ Dolce

What if only the dad is born in Italy, still passport? I looked it up but it seemed somewhat ambiguous.

#123 WUL on 05.07.19 at 9:56 pm

Dolce,

Minor point. More than once you have referred to people appearing to be “well healed”.

I’m pleased they have recovered from illness or disease.

Are there well heeled (financially well off) people in Italy as well?

Pedantically yours,

WUL

#124 akashic record on 05.07.19 at 9:57 pm

Basta, Dolce Vita… basta :)

#125 cramar on 05.07.19 at 10:03 pm

#9 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 4:36 pm

Thanks for the pixs and info. Sounds fairly good. Lovely beach. Do you grow figs there? I’m surprised that in Pordenone it is further north (latitude 45) than where I live (42) in Ontario, which is almost same latitude as Rome. I grew a 2 meter fig tree last year, but the frost killed it before the figs could mature. Your area is a great tourist destination, but I think I would prefer to live in southern Italy better. Naples and south.

#126 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 10:04 pm

#115 Booger

Recall some students will work on a Doctorate and remain resident teaching afterwards (average time for a Ph.D. about 4.5 years in Canada).

Yes, different Visa’s for students (B.Sc., M.Sc., MBA, short term stuff). But some decide to stay on for more than 5 years (the Ph.D. crowd). For example, archaeological digs and what not. We’re not Egypt but we have plenty to dig up.

For example, Herculaneum maybe is 25% excavated. Lots of foreign students there you see with brushes painstakingly clearing away the debris while you tour the premises. And those students, they’re not 21, clearly in their late 20’s (I cheated and spoke to some when I was there this past January – we can tell you are not Italian by how you dress).

Short term, you are correct.

Isn’t it time you went to bed over there? – Garth

#127 Bobby Bittman on 05.07.19 at 10:13 pm

Nice one!

In the style of John-Boy Walton writing home about his first trip to Charlottesville.

#128 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 10:19 pm

#89 crowdedelevatorfartz

You’re not a curmudgeon.

I read your stuff all the time. Plus, I like you’re Commenter name, too funny. Means to me you have an off the wall sense of humor.

#129 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 10:24 pm

#126

“Isn’t it time you went to bed over there? – Garth”

Over and out My Liege. But hey, I loved the Comments.

Pretty smart and well healed group of followers you have, even those I hazed.

Besides, any excuse for an Espresso Lungo from my Saeco Super-automatic Espresso maker + a smidgen of Grappa.

Ciao to all. Buonanotte and this time I mean it.

——————————-

Damn its hard trying to be you for a night. How ever do you do it?

Grateful for it.

#130 not 1st on 05.07.19 at 10:26 pm

Dolce, EU will fail and the crack up will be nothing short of a disaster. Italy is already broke along with the other PIGS. There is no coming back from secular decline. Move to Texas.

#131 not 1st on 05.07.19 at 10:29 pm

Next post should be about abandoning your Canadian citizenship and moving to AB. It will be a shiny new country soon.

#132 Spicy Meatball on 05.07.19 at 10:29 pm

Hi Dolce, what did you do with your RRSP? If you declare non residency in Canada you can take it all out after 25% withholding tax, but do the Italians then take a piece of that?

#133 majik on 05.07.19 at 10:44 pm

Hey Garth,

Might be useful to do a blog post about the tax implications of retiring abroad. The ins and outs of RRSP and TFSA contributions and draw downs when out of state.

#134 ulsterman on 05.07.19 at 11:25 pm

I have an Italian high school student living with me and only yesterday we were talking about living in Italy vs living in Vancouver. The overarching theme was the Italian kids are told to learn English and get out of Italy, because there are no jobs for Italian uni grads. So it looks like it would be a wonderful place to live with a passive income, but a frustrating place for those looking to start a career, pay mortgages, and raise families.

#135 OffshoreObserver on 05.07.19 at 11:45 pm

#116 Dolce Vita

Thanks for the comments.

I have $600K book value of land in downtown of small town in the Okanagan. Room for 26 lots or more with https://youtu.be/029M9vC3Sls

My vision is hybrid house with tiny/small footprint supported by veggie growing spices, herbs, etc.
https://youtu.be/2opU8qMu30o

I ordered grow machine for use in “My” house which my GF has turned into the “Mango Inn” and now her Mom and Pop work in her restaurant about 500 yards towards the South China Sea.

My vision with the grow system I just ordered from China: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Home-gardens-led-vertical-tower-garden_60826663175.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.230.732a7a71cwvQIh is we can produce healthy “Smoothies” and earn high rents at GF Restaurant. I also see Vietnamese Girls dispatched UBER-like on delivering Smoothies on demand. (No, I do not need any government allocating my capital!!!!)

Ciao!

Bedtime Garth? 10:40AM on Wednesday in VN.

#136 Blackdog on 05.07.19 at 11:56 pm

Retiring to Italy sounds enticing, but after successfully raising 3 daughters to young adulthood, I have a lot of family memories yet to make, but here in Canada. I suspect grown children and grand children keep many from leaving their home country. If your adult children rarely keep in touch, they’ve gone and moved to the other side of the world themselves, or you’ve never reproduced, then the decision would be easier to make.

#137 Booger on 05.07.19 at 11:59 pm

https://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/exorcism-goes-mainstream-combined-churches-assemble-in-rome-to-learn-best-practice-eviction-of-demons-ng-d97c59cfe2d1bac0fc53432d0f3e2776

OK, Italy officially too weird for me. I’m with Not 1st, Texas is tied with Thailand for Numero Uno destination.

#138 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.08.19 at 12:13 am

I remember fondly when we used to bash fake Real estate agents on this blog.
How about bashing fake Travel agents like Dolce.
Probably lives in his mother’s basement in Burnaby.

#139 Ponzius Pilatus on 05.08.19 at 12:51 am

Dolce,
Ever heard of “Karl May” a German fiction writer who wrote in the late 1890’s about his adventures travelling
to South and North America, Africa and the Middle East.
While serving 20 years in a German prison.
Imagination is a powerful tool, my friend.

#140 Smoking Man on 05.08.19 at 1:14 am

The second you think you can’t, you are done. Living is over for you, you trade the dream for a pathetically sad safe existence. You were put on this earth to live. 99% just exist. Someone, probably a teacher said you cant to that.
Let’s face it, they never owned a lemonade stand. They were taught by other teachers. Obedience certificate is everything.

I’m Smoking Man and I can.

Who wants a peek of my forex model.? Anyone?

#141 Rhett on 05.08.19 at 1:22 am

Ok, I have to ask the question about that TFSA contribution portion that was mentioned… is that a fact, or a partial one? Does it not depend on what residency means? If i have properties and still not sold my primary, am I technically non-canadian resident because I lived 5 years away out of Canada? I think I should still be able to contribute, both rrsp and tfsa…Garth?

#142 European on Canada on 05.08.19 at 2:17 am

A European-Canadian here. An interesting topic, but the narrative is a little bit unbalanced. Have lived & worked in several countries in Europe. Now several years in Canada and loving most of the experience thus far. Family with school aged kids.

First, the school system In Canada is good; we followed the rankings and so far can’t complain (and we come from countries already admired for their education system). Healthcare so-so, but OK. You need to search a little. No experience re a major illness.

Canadian colleagues so so. A lot of smugness about being somehow better than non-Canadians (hello???), yet often stuck in ways of doing things that in Europe have been a bit passé…

Obesity is rampant. You just do not see it to such a degree in Europe.

Costs are high, BUT in Europe as well!!! Sure, you can retire somewhere cheap, but my professional friends in Rome with families and without Familia wealth tell me that to live a nice life out of an average salary is increasingly difficult. Same in Stockholm. Try to own a decent car in Europe. With a family you need one (or two)! Super expensive.

And as was mentioned, young people struggle a little less in Canada than in Italy or Spain for instance. But as any country, social background plays a huge role here and social reproduction mechanisms ensuring good jobs and careers for the offsprings of wealthy and well connected. Italy will be particularly bad in this I would imagine with all their family owned businesses.

Also TONS of rasism in Europe based along ethnic lines which just does not exist to such extent in Canada. Sure, Dolce Vita passes as an Italian, but if you do not visually / culturally / linguistically fit in, good jobs are largely off limits, kids will get their hard time at school, bureaucracy will be even harder etc. The is especially true if the south of Europe. Canada is quite special in its ability to absorb different kinds of people.

But what we like the most about Canada is the space and stunning unspoiled nature. Rockies, two oceans, far North, lakes… you can find most of it in Europe, but it will be a much more crowded experience and never as unspoiled and vast as in Canada. We love Canada and have never looked back. Our portfolio is balanced and diversified of course and that as well would have been much harder to achieve in most of Europe, just look at their taxation regimes in a bit greater detail especially with regard to investing and also taxes on estates when wealth is supposed to be passed on to family members. ❤️

#143 jane24 on 05.08.19 at 2:44 am

Well Garth I am insulted that you didn’t ask me your other Italian living reader for my take too. We are Canadians with a main house in England and a second house in the south of Italy in Irsina, Basilicata pop 4000. Let’s answer some of these points.

EU citizenship allows you to live in any of 27 countries as though you were born there. Many of these countries will issue you a passport if you or your spouse has a single grandparent from their country. My South African friend just got his by remembering that his grandma was Greek. This includes many Canadians. Second passports are very useful. That said our village has retirees from all over the world including Americans all on residency visas.

Italian state health service is better than Ontario state heath service. I have experienced both. Italy actually keeps you in the hospital if you are ill rather than sending you home after 24 hours. When my friend had a rare disease the system flew in specialists from Germany to help him. I have no idea how the system pays for it all. Sooner or later those chickens will come home to roost but I’ll be dead then so who cares.

You could live in Italy for cheaper but for 1000e a month you can live very very well with much lovely eating out. I always thought that with the low cost of living and cheap abandoned house, Italy should go into the international retirement business.

OAS is sent to your bank account anywhere in the world if you lived in Canada as an adult for 20 years or more. Mine comes into my British bank account along with my CPP.

If you collapse your RRSPs then the Cdn govt withholds 25% as a non-resident but since this is what you would likely pay in your new country in taxes, it works out. I am under 71 so am withdrawing a set amount a year. This pays for the Italian part of our lives.

Yes I would lay low from Italian bureaucracy but all the Italians do this too so nothing new. No-one actually obeys any Italian bureaucracy including the bureaucrats themselves.

You need an Italian bank account to pay utilities. I would suggest the local post office. For everything else just use internet banking.

In my little town most property needs renovating but this is certainly cheaper than North America. A one bed is about 25,000e to a three bed at about 50,000e in the old town. We have the top section of a medieval palace and with all the renos over many years I would say it is worth about 150,000e. Houses here do not appreciate, they are not investments. You are buying life style.

Via cheap budget airlines you can go to many other European places for very little money. Hubby just flew easyjet London to Bari Italy for $ Cdn 150 return.

Yes on death there is a 7% wealth tax but they are talking mega wealth. There is no capital gains or inheritance tax due at death provided you have family. Free of tax you can leave each child one million euros and then there is a cascading stream of tax free money you can leave to various family. We all need to die in Italy as full-time residents.

Don’t assume that the south is warmer than the north. Altitude is important with Italian climate. Irsina may be on the ankle bone of Italy BUT it is also at 2000 feet so the winters are harsh.

Buy a house for a euro, why not? have an adventure and live a little.

#144 Howard on 05.08.19 at 4:32 am

Garth, you’re outsourcing your blog entries to the steerage section now??

This is an exciting development!

#145 Chris P. Bacon on 05.08.19 at 4:44 am

Given all the interest, maybe it’s time to start a full discussion on the merits and drawbacks of moving to the EU? I’ve done it myself (Spain) and while I agree with Dolce Vita in terms of the lifestyle advantages over Canada, there are some very, very serious (and subtle) issues to contemplate before taking a drastic life change. It’s taken me 6 years to see what I could not see before moved here. There’s a reason, my friends, the UK wants out of the EU. It has alot to do with basic freedoms and democratic principles that took form over many hundreds of years of watching events across the english channel. The reality is that democracy on the continent is still in a very tenous state. Countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece (I don’t know enough about others to be able to comment but suspect they are more like these than the island Kingdom) are young democracies, the ghosts of autocracy still lurking here and there. The citizens of these countries are not free people in the way Canadians think of the term. Once you get a taste of the bureaucracy or the “Administration” as its known, you’ll begin to understand. If you try to start a business under corporate regulatory regimes that date back to the era of Don Quixote, you’ll further understand. An apt analogy is fighting a modern war in a suit of armour vs. a Kevlar military gear. Imagine trying to change the name of your company only to discover it’s essentially the same effort (and cost) as constituting the legal entity in the first instance.

If you want to work in one of these lovely countries you must first advise the Revenue Office (CRA equivalent) and explain the exact nature of your work. If you work at anything else without making that change known, you’ll be fined if caught. If you try to work for cash beware of fiscal authorities who can demand on the spot the aforementioned notification, and fine you accordingly. All of this to ensure you are paying into the country’s under-funded social security system.

Much more to warn about, but if your plan is to make living in your newfound paradise, be prepared to work in an administrative straight-jacket.

Also be extremely careful about bringing your hard-earned capital into euroland. Dolce Vit says there’s a 7%
“one time” tax; that’s like an alcoholic telling you the next drink is the last. Just as night follows day your capital will suffer a slow death by a thousand cuts in the bureaucratic nightmare that is europe. Europe is where capital goes to DIE, IMHO. Much more on this later, from personal experience.

In short, you’ll discover that on the continent capitalism is a 4-letter word and freedom as we know it in Canada and english spreaking world is a very different thing from what europeans think of as freedom. Note Dolce Vita’s comment on privacy. Notwithstanding the GDPR, your privacy and anonymity in relation to the “State” and the private sector that is under its thumb, will be OBLITERATED once you enter the system.

Although my home is in Spain, now work in London regularly (for all thea aforemenioned reasons). My limited survey suggests there is much more suppport for Brexit than appears to be the case from watching the news. I suspect that’s because the everyday Joe is not as dumb as the mainstream media would have us believe. Brexit is on its way folks; prepare accordingly.

#146 Hannah on 05.08.19 at 5:24 am

Wonderful post, Dolce! A great reminder that there are many options for us to pursue. Most of us live in a bubble.

What I didn’t hear you address, is how realistic it is for people without the background or language skills to actually integrate or make friends over there. Is there a large expat community of Brits or Germans? Are the locals interested in being friendly with newcomers? Despite the brilliant location, weather, food etc. I would think that most expats could be very lonely, and social ties and relationships have the biggest impact on our happiness…

#147 Leanne on 05.08.19 at 5:58 am

Thanks Dolce Vita ☺️ Glad to hear that you’ve found a place in the world that is such a good fit! You’re a brave man for making the move.

Have you run into any issues with wealth taxes? It looks like if you had a mix of assets (house and financial) that you’d be paying in the thousands per year for every million in assets.

From Wikipedia: “Italy: Two wealth taxes are imposed. One, IVIE, is a 0.76% tax imposed on real assets held outside Italy. The values of such assets are determined by purchase price or current market value. Property taxes paid in the country where the real estate exists can offset IVIE. Another tax, IVAFE, is 0.15% and is levied on all financial assets located outside the country, including, so far as the language seems to imply, individual pension schemes such as 401(k)s and IRAs in the US.”

#148 Chris P. Bacon on 05.08.19 at 6:40 am

Further to my comments above:

https://news.sky.com/story/trumpism-is-coming-to-britain-and-nigel-farage-is-leading-the-charge-11714025

#149 maxx on 05.08.19 at 6:52 am

@ #26

What I miss is the music of laughter and conversation at day’s end, with people coming home from work and school. The streets are filled with it accompanied by the scent of blissful dinners cooking in nearby kitchens.

Lovely……

#150 Howard on 05.08.19 at 7:04 am

As some may know, I live in Paris (originally from Toronto).

Obviously, unlike Dolce Vita in his small Italian town, I’m not saving much money here living in one of the most expensive places on the planet.

Mind you, I have a small flat (450 sq ft) in central Paris for which I pay €1000 a month ($1500 CAD), locked in at that price for 3 years. You’d be hard-pressed to find a small 1-bdrm or even bachelor apartment in downtown Toronto for that price these days.

#151 MF on 05.08.19 at 7:14 am

Dolce has done a great job of giving us a fair and balanced view of Europe. Clearly some problems, but if you are into this type of thing it could be an option for retiring.

#143 jane24 on 05.08.19 at 2:44 am

” Italy actually keeps you in the hospital if you are ill rather than sending you home after 24 hours.”

-That’s because it’s proven that people’s health deteriorates the longer they are in a hospital. The risk of contracting an antibiotic resistant strain of infection goes up exponentially. No one needs to be in a hospital longer than they need to.

” I have no idea how the system pays for it all.”

-It doesn’t. The EU is bankrupt and on borrowed time.

“Well Garth I am insulted that you didn’t ask me your other Italian living reader for my take too.”

Don’t mean to be harsh, but these types of posts sum up the situation here, and in the EU. Who cares who pays for this whole thing, this system is great. All it takes is a little digging below the surface to see the truth.

#145 Chris P. Bacon on 05.08.19 at 4:44 am

I work with a few Italian expats and this is what I hear. The EU is on borrowed time. It could be years but the system is unsustainable.

#135 OffshoreObserver on 05.07.19 at 11:45 pm

Vietnam is experiencing boom and bust like all third world countries. History often repeats, so be wary of some coup, or government overthrow that could disrupt things. All third world countries are like that.

MF

#152 Gravy Train on 05.08.19 at 7:14 am

Thanks for the travel tips, Dolce Vita. I’m planning a trip to Parma next April. :)

#153 maxx on 05.08.19 at 7:16 am

@ #41

Jaysus, learn the language already.

#154 Howard on 05.08.19 at 7:30 am

#141 Rhett on 05.08.19 at 1:22 am
Ok, I have to ask the question about that TFSA contribution portion that was mentioned… is that a fact, or a partial one? Does it not depend on what residency means? If i have properties and still not sold my primary, am I technically non-canadian resident because I lived 5 years away out of Canada? I think I should still be able to contribute, both rrsp and tfsa…Garth?

————————————–

Residency is determined by numerous factors. It’s not an exact science. You will need to get your accountant to file the proper emigrant tax forms.

If you consider your primary residence to be in Canada, you would almost certainly still be considered a Canadian resident and will have to continue filing tax returns. But again, it depends – talk to a qualified tax accountant.

If you do acquire non-resident status, I believe the rule is that you can keep your TFSA with the existing amount intact, but you cannot contribute to it during the time that you are a non-resident.

#155 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.08.19 at 7:36 am

@#138 Ponzie pilot
“Probably lives in his mother’s basement in Burnaby.”

*****

Like you?

#156 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.08.19 at 7:43 am

@#143 jane two-four
“I have no idea how the system pays for it all. Sooner or later those chickens will come home to roost but I’ll be dead then so who cares…”

*****
Italy is going broke but if we re-elect Trudeau and the Greens to support his minority govt………we wont be far behind.

As for the “I’ll be dead so who cares”?
Voting, whining, Millenials…. which brings us back to…..
Trudeau and the Greens turning Canada into a fiscal disaster.

#157 Tater on 05.08.19 at 8:06 am

#29 Stan Brooks on 05.07.19 at 5:20 pm

When I was posting here that Romania who people love to look down to actually might have already higher standard of living than Canada people were laughing.

—————————————————————
They should be laughing. Romanian GDP per capita is about 11k USD, Canada is 45k.

Life expectancy in Romania is 75, its 82 in Canada.

Romania has the weakest healthcare system in Europe. It’s ranked 61st on Transparency international’s Corruption Perception index (Canada is 9th [to be explicitly clear, lower is worse]).

Romania ranks as the 61st best country to live, as per US News, while Canada is 3rd.

I guess I’ll stop here. But, thanks again Stan, for being the perfect contra.

#158 jess on 05.08.19 at 8:19 am

Romans revolt as tourists turn their noses up at city’s decay

Rubbish, potholes and metro closures contribute to anger among visitors and citizens alike

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/26/romans-revolt-as-tourists-turn-their-noses-up-at-citys-decay

==============

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/apr/10/filling-a-gap-the-clandestine-gang-fixing-rome-illegally

========
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/17/italian-town-sambuca-selling-homes-for-1-dollar.html

Detroit, Michigan, has tried to fill run-down homes this way. Gary, Indiana, recently introduced its Dollar House Program. Officials there used a lottery system to offer home ownership to those who otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford it.

#159 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.08.19 at 8:25 am

….And from the “Back to Reality” files.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/charge-being-dropped-against-mark-norman-would-be-major-victory-for-senior-naval-officer

It’s an election year and the bombshell allegations about to come out in a Court room against Liberal meddling in govt contracts , and, dare I suggest, this latest trial?
Where is former Attorney General Jody Wilson Raybould (remember her? The media seems to have forgotten…) when we need her?

When will voting sheeple realize the Liberals are the same corrupt P…O…S that they accuse the Cons of being.

Admiral Mark Norman hounded almost to prison for being involved in the construction of Navy supply ships that were delivered on time and on budget….. an extreme rarity in Canadian Military procurements.

#160 Toronto_CA on 05.08.19 at 8:37 am

#154 Howard on 05.08.19 at 7:30 am

To follow, if you are Canadian resident on 1 January of the year and cease being a resident on 2 January, you are allowed to make the full TFSA contribution for that year. There is no partial TFSA allowance (at this time, anyway), you merely have to have been a tax resident of Canada for a part of the tax year to qualify.

Of course, once you are not resident you are not allowed to future years’ contribution room. Also, I don’t believe many countries recognize TFSA shelter of growth in their tax treaties, so unless you’re moving to a country with no income tax (Cayman, Bermuda, UAE, etc) you will likely lose the benefits of the existing TFSA.

As with any tax advice, you get what you pay for, but a quick research on the CRA website will give you that information for free:

“You can contribute to a TFSA up to the date that you become a non-resident of Canada. The annual TFSA dollar limit is not pro-rated in the year of emigration or immigration.”
Source:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/rc4466/tax-free-savings-account-tfsa-guide-individuals.html#P44_1116

#161 miketheengineer on 05.08.19 at 8:37 am

Garth et al:

I went in 1992 with the old man, and signed up at the consulate. I checked in Jan 2019…yup I am in the system. Cost was either minimal or zero back then. Now I just need to update my status, new address, spouse and kids. Then I get my passport. I am hoping to complete this process in the next 6 months. My estimated cost will be around $400 (just for me, not the family) depending on how things go with the consulate and how many times I have to go back, and how many documents need translating. I am banking on 3 trips min.

Oh and those places that sell homes for 1 euro..it is a bit of a scam, as these places are usually far far far away from “stuff” in general, small towns etc. And once they advertise it, (it has been done before) usually they get people from all over the globe pouncing on them. Right now everything is for sale in Italy. Most homes do not have A/C and are made from stone, with a wood fired heat system. There are modern homes too. The closer you get to a decent size city, the more you pay. There are 3 types of homes for sale there (1) fixed up nice like here or (2) in desparate need of repairs with lots of stone work repair, and interiors and (3) destroyed but can’t be removed due to some historical reason.

To get your passport and you are 2nd gen Italian, budget about $1000 per person (mostly consulate fees)…and it is a 2 year wait. I have booked for my spouse.

#162 Toronto_CA on 05.08.19 at 8:39 am

Sorry my previous post was meant for #141 Rhett, not #154 Howard! Apologies Howard (your answer was great).

#163 dharma bum on 05.08.19 at 8:48 am

How’s the Mafioso doing in Italia these days?
Y’know, the Cosa Nostra?
Still extorting, killing, drug peddling, loansharking, gambling, and playing Robin Hood to the poor in the small towns?
How quaint!

#164 Mattl on 05.08.19 at 8:57 am

Dolce – I live rural, a few acres with a Lakeview, South Okanagan. Not for everyone and not cheap but happiness for me is space. Throwing a frisbee for my dog on my lawn makes me unreasonably happy. Boating with the family, fishing, etc. City life no thanks.

Travel a lot for work so I get my fix of hotels and congested cities and small room living.

I am planning a trip to Italy next year, looks amazing. Even then our plan is to spend most of the time in the countryside, like renting a villa around Sienna. Love Italian wine, particularly nebiollo and wines from Langhe.

#165 Brilliant post on 05.08.19 at 8:58 am

Thank you Dolce Vita for taking the time to share and to comment. You deserve your happiness.

Garth, every day you impress me by coming up with another topic but today you took it to the next level. Thank you for inviting our friend to post and to give him the floor (good one re telling him to go to bed!). If only I could buy you a scotch to thank you properly.

#166 IHCTD9 on 05.08.19 at 9:03 am

#5 Keith on 05.07.19 at 4:07 pm

There will be a mass migration back to Europe from North America over the next three decades.
____

Interesting perspective, I wonder if you could be right. No one seems to have much Patriotism or Pride in their own Country anymore – seems leaving is no biggie these days. Nationalist sentiments are being stomped into the ground in all the rich countries in the world.

I’m Gen X, and among my peers; there seems to be plenty of talk about finding a new Country to live in for retirement.

#167 FoxyKnoxy on 05.08.19 at 9:06 am

forgot to add to CAUTION: guilty until proven innocent… just ask Amanda Knox

#168 Nobody special on 05.08.19 at 9:11 am

Jane 24 and Dolce Vita have no clue what it costs to live in a CITY in Italy.
1,000 euro a month all in ?
hardly.
My grocery bill is easily euro 400 to 450 / month.
My rent is 1,100 euro – all in is 1,350 / month
Food is cheaper than in Cda, but not by much.
(multiply prices by 1.6 to get sums in Cdn $)

Italian medical covers no tests – you pay for all.
Their doctors are 1 generation behind – I had to go to Canada to get a surgery that the head of the Roman medical surgery told me they don’t even teach there and encouraged me to go to Canada where “they do it right” according to her.

A car here is simply unaffordable for most rational people.
There are few jobs, fewer yet that pay decently.
The average income for men from 25 to 34 is euro 1,200 – GROSS !
That is less than what my rent costs for 850 sq feet in a middle class area !
To buy my apartment would be about Cdn $ 475,000 for a 60 year old building, no amenities, no doorman, no services.

No DESIRABLE place in the West is cheap anymore, especially cities.

Jane 24 and Dolce Vita live in small towns, well out of the major cities and so rent and everything that flows from that cost, is cheaper.
Do you want to live in a town of 4,000 people ?
I don’t.

Am here for the tax treatment and better weather, good food, nobody to bother you too much, etc. , but it ain’t cheap.

Nobody special

#169 Tater on 05.08.19 at 9:20 am

#140 Smoking Man on 05.08.19 at 1:14 am
The second you think you can’t, you are done. Living is over for you, you trade the dream for a pathetically sad safe existence. You were put on this earth to live. 99% just exist. Someone, probably a teacher said you cant to that.
Let’s face it, they never owned a lemonade stand. They were taught by other teachers. Obedience certificate is everything.

I’m Smoking Man and I can.

Who wants a peek of my forex model.? Anyone?
————————————————————-
Give it to Stan. He’s the only person possibly dumb enough to believe you.

#170 IHCTD9 on 05.08.19 at 9:36 am

#12 Kenny H on 05.07.19 at 4:42 pm

I have been thinking the same thing lately. What’s in it for me to stay here anymore. Outrageous house prices. Skyrocketing rents. Declining rental vacancy rates. Same for mobile phone, internet, food, taxes, electric bills etc. Healthcare even not what it once was.
____

Yep. It’ll be getting worse too. There will be more T2’s in our future, Canadian voters will see to that. More debt – more taxes. Cost of living goes up, quality of life goes down.

#171 Never leave Canada on 05.08.19 at 9:57 am

Yes Canada is expensive in big cities, then like my father in law always said, move to cheaper smaller towns.
He lived on a $14,000 a year pension plus OAS and CPP.
So yes it can be done.

As for Europe, exciting to visit, but you will be an immigrant. Plus if you do not speak any language other than English you will have difficulties.
I knew an Italian immigrant who left a Canada and moved back to the home country and he lasted three years before he moved back to Canada.
Yes I have met lots of Canadians who left Canada and moved to Mexico and swear by it. I have a friend moving to Cuba, he’s been going every winter for a few years, making networks and friends.

It’s a personal choice and guess what your dam lucky to have choices.

My only thought is live on a cruise ship, think about it, $100 a day is cheaper than a retirement home, free food, luxury travel, medical 24/7 maid service and Tons of women over 80 looking for a man.
Who could beat that.
My advice, thanks for asking, go and rent for three months and see if you like it not more than six months as you loose your provincial health care.

If I left Canada my choices would be Norway, New Zealand, and British Columbia.

Have a great day!

#172 JB on 05.08.19 at 10:04 am

Went to stay with my aunt and uncle in Naples for two summers when I was a child. Didn’t even think about it but looming right in front of us was Mount Vesuvius. Most Italians don’t even give it a thought. One year there was a some eruption and that was it for my parents. We did not go back the next summer or any summer ever. Italy is stunningly beautiful but underneath it is one of the most active volcanic zones in the European continental area. Nope if I retired there it would perhaps down south by the Adriatic coast. Far away from these molten monsters. One day one of these suckers is going to blow and the problem is that millions now live right next to them.

https://matadornetwork.com/read/number-active-volcanoes-italy-totally-insane/

#173 Gravy Train on 05.08.19 at 10:19 am

#41 yielding on 05.07.19 at 5:43 pm
“but but … . me no speak Italian … and few in Italia speak English .. enough for a conversation . ok as a tourist but to live .. no way . .too hard .. too lonely” Google Translate is a free app that translates bilingual conversations very well. :P

#174 Howard on 05.08.19 at 10:21 am

#168 Nobody special on 05.08.19 at 9:11 am

Jane 24 and Dolce Vita live in small towns, well out of the major cities and so rent and everything that flows from that cost, is cheaper.
Do you want to live in a town of 4,000 people ?
I don’t.

————————————-

There’s a very wide range of options between “major cities” and towns of 4,000 people.

#175 n1tro on 05.08.19 at 10:26 am

#140 Smoking Man on 05.08.19 at 1:14 am
The second you think you can’t, you are done. Living is over for you, you trade the dream for a pathetically sad safe existence. You were put on this earth to live. 99% just exist. Someone, probably a teacher said you cant to that.
Let’s face it, they never owned a lemonade stand. They were taught by other teachers. Obedience certificate is everything.

I’m Smoking Man and I can.

Who wants a peek of my forex model.? Anyone?
——————————
Me! Let’s see it. :D

#176 MF on 05.08.19 at 10:34 am

142 European on Canada on 05.08.19

This is a wonderful post. Thanks for that.

MF

#177 Nonno Nicola on 05.08.19 at 10:39 am

Very interesting comments on bella Italia. I have been there many times in the past 50 years. I have relatives in Italy who came to visit in February 2017. They are farmers and were jaw dropped at our farms in Southern Ontario. Mountains are great for a view but if you are a farmer like my cousin, our flat terrain is heaven. Imagine if he saw Saskatchewan. My wife and I go to the Italian film festival every year in Toronto. The past 5 years have had as a major theme in the movies, economic difficulties faced by many Italians. Last year one movie had the title, translated, “There is no hope for our youth in Italy.” Someone posted about hosting an Italian student and that the Italian youth are told to learn English and get the hell out. Very true. That was the whole theme of the above mentioned movie from the TIFF. Saw a documentary recently on how hard life is for the poor in Italy and this now includes many beyond what you normally think of as the poor. The fact that various parts of Italy are enticing foreigners with low cost homes should tell you what the state of the economy is. Bureaucracy is maddening in Italy. I recall an Italian businessman who came over to Ontario to set up a company to import his windows from his manufacturing company in Italy. He was shocked that he could set up a company in one day in Ontario while it would take 6 to 8 months to do so in Italy. I like visiting Italy but would not want to live there.

#178 Gravy Train on 05.08.19 at 10:42 am

#157 Tater on 05.08.19 at 8:06 am
“[…] Romania ranks as the 61st best country to live, as per US News, while Canada is 3rd.[…]” Interestingly, U.S. is 8th best, and Italy is 18th. :)
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-rankings

#179 Headhunter on 05.08.19 at 10:50 am

seems lots of “red pill” moments on here today as the realisation that at 36 million people we in Canada are pretty small, costs a shitton to live here.

As I have said here before genie is out of the bottle and a great many highly skilled immigrants take a pass at “the land of the frozen chosen”

If you have a small monthly income you are better to live elsewhere.. quality of life as nobody gets out of here alive

#180 baloney Sandwitch on 05.08.19 at 11:25 am

All this is fine, but I love my Canada (taxes and all). I guess its all that antifreeze running in my veins.

#181 Long-Time Lurker on 05.08.19 at 11:25 am

Bitcoin exchange hack. $41 million.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48199375

Also, Iran might stop selling enriched uranium and keep it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48197628

#182 Expat Travelogue on 05.08.19 at 11:37 am

Yer onto something Garth…. Next edition Smoking Man will give us the ups and down of trailer park living and his quest to be the walking embalmed.

#183 IHCTD9 on 05.08.19 at 11:52 am

#67 Dogman01 on 05.07.19 at 6:26 pm

Some declines will be precipitous and startling—China, currently at 1.4 billion but deep into the fertility trap, will have 560 million people by the end of the century.
____

Aye, if the song remains the same, the world in 80+ years will look a lot different.

Some rich countries barely crest 1.0 fertility rates. It won’t be long before every single Western/developed Nation on Earth will be 110% dependent on 3rd world immigration for it’s replacement taxpayers.

Not sure if the plan is going to work to keep the Government coffers full, but it seems to be their only idea…

#184 Robert Ash on 05.08.19 at 12:00 pm

I think there have been a lot of Canadians, that leave Canada temporarily, and this has been a consideration for years. The second or third largest Land Owners in Florida, are Canadians… It was and still is to some extent a right of passage for Eastern Canadians, to own, rent or move the RV to Florida…for 183 days.. Why not… Canadians, are hard working people, and like to spend time outdoors.
To Leave Canada, Legally with CRA approval, is not that easy, one must become factually a Non Resident. To do this all Primary and Secondary ties, to Canada, must be eliminated. No Real Property, No Children, No Ex Wives, No Drivers License, No Furniture, No Cottages, or Rental Properties, No Bank or Investment accounts, No Credit Cards.. or perhaps, one Credit Card, if the CRA approve, your Departure….. etc, etc, … Just Google the CRA website, and one can see, that especially for younger Canadians, an Experience overseas working is a great chance… For many Canadians, who are Retiring, it is not much of an option… The Feds, control your Passport… and can shut down a potential emigration candidate, very quickly… Very hard to travel today with out complete transparency… In Bejing, the other week… Coming through the Airport… Four Fingerprints, Passport and Boarding Pass Scan… and not even a Hello to Immigration… A green Light and the Gate is opened automatically… Modern Computers.. the godsend to Governments of the world, for Policing their own citizens… China is leading the way…. You have to stick to very rigid rules, and processes… Did anyone think the Feds would make it easy to leave … Retirees are cash cows….. Sad but true… with longer life expectancy today… the Feds may come to realize that allowing retirees to leave .. saves in Health Care… By the way… one must fund their own Health Care Insurance .. if you leave or travel for extended periods of time out of country, and this Insurance is more expensive as the Years go by…

#185 Remembrancer on 05.08.19 at 12:24 pm

#128 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 10:19 pm
#89 crowdedelevatorfartz

You’re not a curmudgeon.

I read your stuff all the time. Plus, I like you’re Commenter name, too funny. Means to me you have an off the wall sense of humor.
———————————————–
Great post Dolce and way to go staying up for the near live Q&A, but gotta say, crowded has been pretty clear on his name, it’s not for humour, its how he rolls 24/7…

#186 Ubul on 05.08.19 at 12:24 pm

#169 Tater on 05.08.19 at 9:20 am

#140 Smoking Man on 05.08.19 at 1:14 am
The second you think you can’t, you are done. Living is over for you, you trade the dream for a pathetically sad safe existence. You were put on this earth to live. 99% just exist. Someone, probably a teacher said you cant to that.
Let’s face it, they never owned a lemonade stand. They were taught by other teachers. Obedience certificate is everything.

I’m Smoking Man and I can.

Who wants a peek of my forex model.? Anyone?
————————————————————-
Give it to Stan. He’s the only person possibly dumb enough to believe you.

Show me, please. I can take a look without prejudice, then make up my mind.

#187 BillyBob on 05.08.19 at 12:26 pm

#92 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:04 pm
#78 BillyBob

Believe me when I tell you this, we know we’re in deep shit economically, admit it if you talk to us privately but we have La Familia, the great equalizer and a pint sized country that brings a smile to our face when you take a gander at her.

You know, you have to live here to understand Italia and Italians. I have lived, counting extended trips, 7 years in Italia and I am still getting to know her and her people.

She is not an open book like Canada or the USA. She reveals herself at her pace, not the frenetic N. American pace.

Fleeting generalizations, by undoubtedly the Left dominated N. American MSM you have swallowed hook, line and sinker cannot begin to understand the Italian psyche and probably never will.

Yes, many, many Italians emigrated abroad…because they had to economically, not because they wanted to. To tear themselves away from La Familia is the worst possible thing, yet they did it…no other choice.

=================================

I do not subscribe to “Fleeting generalizations, by undoubtedly the Left dominated N. American MSM” whatsoever, having lived outside of North America for twice as long as you have, in places you have not. Then there is the decade I spent visiting over 140 places across the globe as my actual employment, which exposed me to things I could never begin to list.

My only comment was that, in spite of your obvious enthusiasm, Italy is not the panacea to Canadian troubles, in fact it has many uniquely its own.

Your’re basically like a religious zealot, trying to convince everyone that since you’ve found Jesus, I mean Italy, everyone else should too. And just as amusing/annoying.

#188 Ryan on 05.08.19 at 12:37 pm

#145 Chris P. Bacon on 05.08.19 at 4:44 am

Europe is where capital goes to DIE, IMHO. Much more on this later, from personal experience. Much more on this later, from personal experience.

*******************************

You have me intrigued! Please go on. I’ve long been skeptical on European bureaucracy, overburdened social programs and the growing welfare state sucking their young and productive working class dry.

I’m still in a balanced portfolio, equal weighted US-International (with 15% Canada), but thinking of cutting back my international allocations to 15%. The US seems the be the only place that has positive growth. The rest of the world, including Canada, seem to be destined for mediocrity as socialism grows (and sadly, it’s growing in the US as well). Maybe this really will be the Asian century, time to learn Mandarin?

#189 Rexx Rock on 05.08.19 at 1:04 pm

We all know Canada is expensive but if you can afford it there is no reason to leave except for the winters.One option is rent a room in a college or university city for the summer and spring and leave for the winters.Asia or Latin America.Met a smart French Canadian who has a 5th wheel parked at a campground on the Quebec side near Ottawa all year round for $250 a month all in.Lives in Mexico 6 months of the year.When there is a will there is way.I have a EU passport and will look around Europe later this year and see where its best to live.Family and friends is what keep most people from leaving Canada.

#190 MF on 05.08.19 at 1:46 pm

179 Headhunter on 05.08.19 at 10:50 am

Lol can you read?

Coverage has been surprisingly balanced. Good and bad.

It’s basic comprehension. Stop pushing your agenda.

MF

#191 oh bouy on 05.08.19 at 1:48 pm

@#142 European on Canada on 05.08.19 at 2:17 am
A European-Canadian here. An interesting topic, but the narrative is a little bit unbalanced. Have lived & worked in several countries in Europe. Now several years in Canada and loving most of the experience thus far. Family with school aged kids.
______________________

informative post but dolce is referring more to a place to retire to for all the old curmudgeons on here.
Maybe they can all go to the same italian town and we can wall them in.

#192 jess on 05.08.19 at 1:50 pm

107 Dolce Vita on 05.07.19 at 8:54 pm

food tasters
Italy’s organised crime families have infiltrated the country’s food chain, from field … Specialist police tasters work to uncover adulterated foods, …

#193 Adios on 05.08.19 at 2:14 pm

When you live here in Italy you realize the crap coffee
TH actually serve.

#194 Italy? on 05.08.19 at 2:39 pm

MASSIVE pass, ……..cmon man

#195 Barb on 05.08.19 at 3:12 pm

Thanks, Dolce Vita for a well-written and most interesting read.

#196 Rhett on 05.08.19 at 3:56 pm

#160 Toronto_CA on 05.08.19 at 8:37 am
#154 Howard on 05.08.19 at 7:30 am

Great responses guys – thank you.

So it is possible to continue to contribute to your TFSA, you just have to set it up properly – as most anything, planning is key! Good to know!

#197 Remembrancer on 05.08.19 at 3:56 pm

#183 IHCTD9 on 05.08.19 at 11:52 am

If you really want something to worry you, forget about immigration bugaboos and chew on what population levels are required to sustain an advanced technological civilization period, full stop. i.e. newer innovations like microprocessor design and fab plants, nuclear power station care and feeding, mining and other resource extraction, or even large scale farming etc etc etc. Not everyone can be a nuclear physicist nor a brain surgeon nor an agrologist despite how needed – hell, ask yourself at what population level do you lose all the tractor factories / spares and diesel refining and revert to pre-19th century subsistence farming? Taxes would be the least of your problems…

#198 Peter Z on 05.08.19 at 7:28 pm

#105 Another Deckchair

Residency for family member with no EU passport in general is no problem (goes country by country). The member of EU states MUST allow family members to ‘follow’ the EU citizen residency holder.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/index_en.htm

#87 Linda

CPP and OAS are ‘portable’ after min. 20 years of Canadian residency. CRA may declares someone as a non-resident and apply the withholding tax of 15% on Canadian income (depends on country’s tax treaty), but if 90% of that income is from Canadian sources, then you can get those 15% back. Meaning, you will be taxed as you reside in Canada.

#199 Headhunter on 05.08.19 at 8:41 pm

179 Headhunter on 05.08.19 at 10:50 am

Lol can you read?

Coverage has been surprisingly balanced. Good and bad.

It’s basic comprehension. Stop pushing your agenda.

MF

____________________________________________
You are not the boss of me… see I can communicate at your level

#200 Chris P. Bacon on 05.09.19 at 8:58 am

@#188 Ryan

You have me intrigued! Please go on. I’ve long been skeptical on European bureaucracy, overburdened social programs and the growing welfare state sucking their young and productive working class dry.

I’m still in a balanced portfolio, equal weighted US-International (with 15% Canada), but thinking of cutting back my international allocations to 15%. The US seems the be the only place that has positive growth. The rest of the world, including Canada, seem to be destined for mediocrity as socialism grows (and sadly, it’s growing in the US as well). Maybe this really will be the Asian century, time to learn Mandarin?

===========

I would think your situation is somewhat different as a financial markets investor. In my case, I was referring to direct investment in the country in operating businesses, startup technology companies and real estate. The corporate and tax law regimes in countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece are antiquated and far from business friendly. However, for financial markets investors the issues are more macro-economic and industry/sector specific in terms of profitability and ROI, which a financial advisor can more easily speak to than I. I think you probably have less to worry about than an entrepreneur who invests his/her capital in a private venture. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I’ll try to answer.

#201 AGuyInVancouver on 05.09.19 at 2:04 pm

#84 Mohammad on 05.07.19 at 7:26 pm
Excellent post Garth. My parents just back from Istanbul Turkey and prices are even cheaper their. Parents plan to send their million dollar home here take the cash and live like kings in Turkey. Life is really amazing and cheap and is very similar if not better than Italy (if your a muslim)
_ _ _
I guess if you can ignore being subject to the whims of an IslamoFascist dictator, sure why not. You could even participate in the Istanbul election re-run, LOL.