Take it

And now, let’s deal with some First World Problems. You know, like only getting a 3G connection. Having to pay 5 cents a grocery bag for the salmon and $8 strawberries. Forgetting your Netflix password. A papercut on your texting thumb. No avocado toast. Watching your greedy parents spend your inheritance. Forgetting the cleaning lady’s name.

Plus this: should rich retirees stick their hands out and collect government OPP (Old Persons’ Pogey) when they turn 60? Or wait, and scoop more where they’re five years closer to expiry?

Just got this note from the steerage section:

Well, I just arrived home from a month long retreat in Arizona to a massive pile of mail (mostly junk). As I sat down to sift through it, I noticed two drab beige Government of Canada envelopes which I assumed were CRA reassessments. Upon reluctantly opening them, I was surprised to see that they were notices that we were soon eligible to start collecting Canada pension.

My first thought was: “Wait..what?! How old are we?” Upon the sober realization that we are both actually 59 (we still act and behave like children), I scanned the information provided, then thought about what the best option for us will be as far as when to start taking the money is concerned.

I wondered if this might be a topic that you would perhaps address in an upcoming post.

In our case, I recently retired and my wife works part time (self employed).  Our combined income consists of about $150,000.00 (investment income in the form of mostly dividends, and some interest) plus about $50,000.00 from my wife’s self employment income. So approximately $200,000.00 annually. The investment income comes from approximately $3m in non-registered investments. There is about another $1m in RRSP investments that are growing over time, but I have not included this in the income calculation. TFSAs are maxed.

We have a long paid off GTA house (we’ve been in it for 30 years), worth about $1.5. It costs around $20K a year to stay in it (property tax, insurance, utilities, internet, maintenance, etc.).

Kids are all moved out. The CPP available to us at age 60 (in 11 months from now) is $725/month (me) and $600/month (wife). At age 65 it would be $1130 and $900 respectively.

So, the question is, do we take it at 60 or 65? We don’t really need the cash from it right now to live on. If we took it, we would save and invest it.

Please insert the following mandatory suck-up at the beginning of this email, if so desired:
“Dear Garth, I have been reading your blog since 2012, and appreciate all the advice that you humorously and informatively impart on the subject of real estate and financial investments. I don’t know where I would be without you. Probably eating out of dumpsters and living in a tent by the railway tracks on the edge of town. Thank you for everything you do. Keep up the good work!”

Kindest regards, Bum.

Well, B, we’ve visited this topic a few times, but it keeps resurfacing. So bookmark this entry. It will be the last.

First, the moral and ethical question: Should a couple with almost six million assets, most of them liquid and churning out a big, tax-efficient income, take money from a government that’s sinking into deficit and can’t even pay for necessities like giving $50 million in a tweet to Trevor Noah, some US television comedian dude?

Ah, hell yes.

Okay, now the question is whether to take it at age 60 or later. The rules are in place to encourage people to wait until later life (ie – closer to death) to collect their stipend. This is so Ottawa will ultimately pay you less. Why else would there be an incentive to delay?

So Bum can take his $725 a month now, which will equal $43,500 over five years, or $53,000 if stuck in a TFSA each month and earning 6.5%. If he waits five years and receives 36% more (which is $980, not $1,130) he will have to collect for almost five years more (to age 70) just to make up for what he didn’t pocket earlier. And given the fact he doesn’t need the money, the $53,0000 in CPP gained by age 65 would grow to almost $80,000 if left in the TFSA (even without new contributions).

So, if the government’s going to give you money, and a tax-free place to put it, why would you not take it? Clearly you’re gambling you’ll live long enough to receive a modest additional amount. But, of course, you could croak. Happens. For most people the age at which you start to pull ahead financially by waiting is 74. But guys usually die by 81. A dollar when you’re healthy is worth more than buck when you’re on meds, watching Oprah and trying to breathe. So is it worth not having the satisfaction of getting some taxes returned to you for two decades prior?

Besides, CPP for guys like Bum is play money. A few hundred a month to go and enjoy – which is a helluva lot easier when you’re 62 than 80. Additionally, given the fact T2 has grown permanent deficits and the national debt’s exploding, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that CPP benefits (like OAS) will be corralled in the future. Why incur any political risk?

Finally, if (unlike B) you need the cash flow at age 60, then take it. No debate there. If your family history sucks and relatives have routinely fallen over in the sixties, take it.

Overall, you must have a powerful reason, and confidence your life will be long and healthy, not to grab the cash early. Of course if you feel you’ve paid too little in taxes, and are guilty about it, delay your CPP.

Yeah, thought so.

141 comments ↓

#1 Early blog so First!? on 12.04.18 at 2:05 pm

Wow, early today.

#2 Bid on 12.04.18 at 2:06 pm

Onest

#3 DR. Bob on 12.04.18 at 2:11 pm

There is a lot that I would like to say about the big problem Bum has, but everyone is so obsessed with money they keep forgetting that being in good health is more important. Well at least for me.

#4 The Truth on 12.04.18 at 2:14 pm

Yesssss
…….enjoy your life in this big fun Firmament !!!!

#5 Wage Cage on 12.04.18 at 2:27 pm

I couldn’t imagine a fate worst than being “retired”. What do you do for the next 40 years?

Sit and and wait while your body and mind atrophy?

#6 Shawn Allen on 12.04.18 at 2:36 pm

Actuarial Math?

This is so Ottawa will ultimately pay you less. Why else would there be an incentive to delay?

**********************************
It might be better called a penalty for taking CPP early since 65 was the standard normal age.

If the penalty for taking early is roughly actuarially sound for the average person then it might be a wash on expectations.

If you think your life expectancy at 60 is higher than average it might be mathematically sound to delay.

The notion of using it to fund TFSA might be a good notion in many cases. (Not for Bum though who is already maxed out and will be able to max out in any cases).

The tax rate paid on CPP now versus taken later can also be considered. Maybe it does make sense to take at 60 if you have a big RRSP that must be taken at after age 71.

In general I would lean to waiting if one does not need the money and is in better than average health and life expectancy (non-smoker, not obese, good family history).

Overall, it depends and there is no standard best answer. I will have to give this more thought in my own circumstances.

#7 Christine on 12.04.18 at 2:38 pm

“The CPP available to us….do we take it at 60 or 65?”
“Should a couple with almost six million assets….take money from a government….?”

This is CPP aka NOT the government’s money. It is the money this couple paid into CPP over the decades, as well as the company portion of those contributions. OAS is another question quickly answered by the govt clawing it all back at that income level. But CPP? It’s THEIR money – not the government’s. They should take it and be thankful they’ve had good jobs and have been such great savers over the years.

#8 Fat guy at the gym on 12.04.18 at 2:49 pm

Take the cpp at 60 as long as the income doesn’t push you into another tax bracket.

#9 Brian Ripley on 12.04.18 at 2:50 pm

Yield Curve Inversion is in the headline today.
I updated my Canadian Yield Curve chart:
http://www.chpc.biz/yield-curve.html

The November data shows ​that the 10yr less 2yr spread dropped to only 12 beeps away from inversion; last month it was 16 bps.

In May, June and July of 2007 the 10-2yr spread was negative 10 beeps and the TSX Real Estate Index tipped over into plunge-ville. Back then the bank rate was 4.5% and about to briefly foray into 4.8% territory until the Bank of Canada freaked and began heading towards zirpiness.

The November 2018 Bank Rate print was only 2%.

We have had 9.8 years of ZIRP and NIRP and goosed everything in sight while producing an insane real estate market being used to launder global criminal cash while opening our society to the massive threat of “designer” drugs that are cheap and easy to produce and proliferate.

#10 JB on 12.04.18 at 2:54 pm

DELETED

#11 Stan Brooks on 12.04.18 at 2:58 pm

Take it/the money as early as you can and spend it all asap man.

Than go and raise a tent in wild bill, T2 or Poloz’s backyard and ask them to feed you.

No investments, just spend it all. The prudent/savers/investors etc are f…ed up in this county, at the end they will take it all from you anyway, why feed the parasites?

#12 jess on 12.04.18 at 3:02 pm

“the tarriff man”

Stocks Slide After Trump Tweets on Trade, While Bond Market Sounds Recession Warning
“….China’s is growing at its slowest rate in a decade. The world’s third largest economy, Japan, shrunk during the third quarter, as did Germany’s. ”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/04/business/yield-curve-recession-stock-market.html

======
Ad

The New York Times™ | Subscription Options Available‎
Adwww.nytimes.com/‎
+1 888-860-4514
Subscribe For The Latest Breaking News & Headlines From The New York Times
Steve Bannon and a Fugitive Billionaire ?

Property of fugitive tycoon Guo Wengui to be auctioned | Asia Times
http://www.atimes.com/article/property-of-fugitive-tycoon-guo-wengui-to-be-auctioned/

Trump changes his mind on deporting Guo Wengui when he learns he’s Mar-a-Lago member
Guo Wengui fled China because he was accused for 19 crimes

According to the Wall Street Journal, President Trump received a letter from the Chinese government hand-delivered by Steve Wynn, a Las Vegas tycoon with business interests in Macau, China. The government letter asked Trump for assistance with getting Mr. Guo deported. Trump expressed interest in helping the Chinese government, but senior officials found ways to not allow it to happen

Aug 3, 2018 – Properties owned by fugitive Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui, including 41 condos and 19 offices in Beijing worth a total of eight billion yuan

Fugitive Billionaire Guo Wengui’s Company Fined 60 Billion Yuan …
https://www.caixinglobal.com/…/fugitive-billionaire-guo-wenguis-company-fined-60-…

Oct 13, 2018 – Five senior employees of Chinese fugitive billionaire Guo Wengui were handed suspended jail sentences on Friday after being found guilty of ..

#13 conan on 12.04.18 at 3:02 pm

Markets are concerned about something, and I don’t think it is the price of cauliflower. I think it’s more of a larger sentiment.

The big guy does not know what he is doing.

#14 JB on 12.04.18 at 3:06 pm

T2 has to go quickly. When they used to say in the last election hes just not ready. I don’t know who “they” were but they were correct. As for the budget balancing itself, hows that working Justin? He is truly the biggest joke we have ever elected in this country. Nobody on the world stage takes him seriously, we are back to being nobodies. What an embarrassment the budget will balance itself? WTF?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/is-trudeau-really-just-not-ready-maybe/article25903903/

#15 SimplyPut7 on 12.04.18 at 3:06 pm

Our combined income consists of about $150,000.00 (investment income in the form of mostly dividends, and some interest) plus about $50,000.00 from my wife’s self employment income. So approximately $200,000.00 annually.

———————
150k from just investment income, imagine if that was all coming from their TFSA.

First world problem blog posts are great, they give us a break from the doom and gloom coming from the housing market.

#16 patty twinkle toes on 12.04.18 at 3:11 pm

Why is Bum even writing in with such an absurd question..like it matters to him….pocket change…150k off dividends…go back to Arizona you jabrony….

#17 JB on 12.04.18 at 3:14 pm

#9 conan on 12.04.18 at 3:02 pm

Markets are concerned about something, and I don’t think it is the price of cauliflower. I think it’s more of a larger sentiment.

The big guy does not know what he is doing.
………………………………………………………………
Oh yes he does he is spinning on everything!

Graham is calling for senate to vote the MBS was complicit in the death of Khashoggi.
“I left the briefing with high confidence that my initial confidence is correct,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, who said he is highly confident that the prince is responsible for the murder.
Now that is going to hurt Trump when he take’s it up the rear from his bosses in Riyadh.

#18 SmarterSquirrel on 12.04.18 at 3:17 pm

Garth,

B’s story is impressive. It would be great to get a few insights from them on the key things they did to wind up on the cusp of 60 in such great financial shape.

I keep trying to get the message out there (https://smartersquirrel.com/about) to encourage as many people as I can, get better prepared for retirement or a job loss, but it would be great to hear from B on what they did. Any chance you could ask for some of their key insights into what they did right, and share it on a future post?

It’s always great to hear from those who have done it before.

#19 Toronto_CA on 12.04.18 at 3:51 pm

OAS is old people welfare and it’s clawed back for high earners; possibly should also be asset tested as well as income tested.

CPP is earned and paid for by people who work in Canada and the employers who employ them, it doesn’t belong to the government it is merely administrated by them.

So not sure there is any moral dilemma to be had about collecting CPP.

#20 jess on 12.04.18 at 3:57 pm

Minutes before May rose to speak, lawmakers delivered a historic rebuke, finding her Conservative government in contempt of Parliament for refusing to publish the full advice it had received from the country’s top law officer about the proposed terms of Brexit.

The reprimand, by 311 votes to 293, marks the first time a British government has been found in contempt of Parliament.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/britain-brexit-eu-court-adviser-1.4931343

#21 Renter's Revenge! on 12.04.18 at 3:59 pm

So what did this Bum do for a living?

Those are some really impressive financial results!

I’m starting to question my career choice :)

#22 Mike in Toronto on 12.04.18 at 4:07 pm

Glad I waited to materialize my losses for this year… will be able to pay myself more out of the corporation!

#23 jess on 12.04.18 at 4:11 pm

Trump Organization to be subpoenaed over claims Trump profited from presidency – live

Washington DC and Maryland attorneys general to also subpoena IRS and other entities in emoluments lawsuit against president

=======
Pompeo doubles down on US support for Saudi Arabia, says no direct evidence of Saudi leader’s involvement in journalist’s murder

By Veronica Stracqualursi, CNN

Updated 1:35 AM ET, Mon December 3, 2018

Pompeo again noted a lack of direct evidence linking bin Salman to Khashoggi’s murder.
“I have read every piece of intelligence that’s in the possession of the United States government,” Pompeo said. “And when it is done, when you complete that analysis, there’s no direct evidence linking him to the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. That is a accurate statement, it is an important statement, and it is a statement that we are making publicly today.”

=
Sen. Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN after a briefing with Haspel that the prince, known as MBS, “ordered, monitored, the killing” of the father of four.
Corker added, “And if he (MBS) were in front of a jury, he would be convicted of murder in about 30 minutes.”
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/12/04/senator-bob-corker-saudi-crown-prince-khashoggi-manu-raju-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

#24 dakkie on 12.04.18 at 4:15 pm

Global “big four” stuck – US (PMI) 55.3 3M low, EU at 27M low, Japan now 15M low, and China barely > 50

http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-big4-stuck-us-not-ism-55-3-3m-low-eu-at-27m-low-japan-now-15m-low-and-china-barely-50/

#25 Ubul on 12.04.18 at 4:37 pm

Stop deviating from the dog pics. Especially on sea of red days.

Unless you are sending subliminal message to Bum, that if he doesn’t need the gov money for wild Sockeye salmon, he can spend it on an actual hot babe?

#26 Briny Smith on 12.04.18 at 4:39 pm

Easy decision. Take CPP, buy preferred shares regularly. Rinse repeat.

#27 mogulrider on 12.04.18 at 4:48 pm

Yesterday turned out to be the reversal it looked like..

This trading range will kill traders
That is why imho its better to simply buy indexes and let the volatility monkey hammer individual stocks.

Geez the blood on the floor with all these millions of day traders must be a sight to see.

A few windows opening tonight I bet.

What I love is watching these jerks who are stealing our personal data and diving government an inside look into our lives like Facebook, Apple, Google watch their stock options go poof…..

Zuck just barfed in his champagne

Makes my day

#28 Broke Dick on 12.04.18 at 4:54 pm

Way to go dharma bum.
How was Arizona?

Other point to consider is if a male makes it to 60 chances are he will live past 81.

#29 AGuyInVancouver on 12.04.18 at 4:55 pm

#14 JB on 12.04.18 at 3:06 pm
T2 has to go quickly. When they used to say in the last election hes just not ready. I don’t know who “they” were but they were correct. As for the budget balancing itself, hows that working Justin? He is truly the biggest joke we have ever elected in this country. Nobody on the world stage takes him seriously, we are back to being nobodies. What an embarrassment the budget will balance itself? WTF?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/is-trudeau-really-just-not-ready-maybe/article25903903/
_ _ _
Wow, thanks for posting a timely 3 year old article. Impressive.

#30 splfek on 12.04.18 at 5:10 pm

The bulls were pumped and dumped today.

Don’t worry, its different this time, just buy the dip and if you are fully invested just stay invested.

#31 bob on 12.04.18 at 5:20 pm

Garth, isn’t the powerful reason is in your own arguments?

Bum doesn’t need the money, so CPP is not for spending on avocado toast, but to maximize estate value for passing on to their kids or grandchildren.

Average age is 81, which means, by waiting, his heirs will receive 7 more years worth of money.

Ghoul. – Garth

#32 Ian on 12.04.18 at 5:22 pm

The bear is growling!!!!

Stocks most overvalued of all time, the crash has started.

Bond rally today absolutely hilarious! Sell that garbage! Do you really want USD yields that absurdly low when they have 22t in debt and a USD crisis coming?!? Unbelievable, once in a lifetime shorting opportunity.

And for the gold bears: you’ve been laughing for ten years because of a bubble bull stock market, which means now we will he paid and paid quickly. Gold has 9k to catch up to where it should be, and then it gets re-established as a standard, which it should never NOT have been (even though I love you Nixon, that wasn’t smart).

Buy rocks instead of the riskless obligations of the world’s biggest economy that pay you to own them? Funny. – Garth

#33 JSS on 12.04.18 at 5:23 pm

BMO -> dividend increase from $0.96 to $1.00

4.2% increase

rub tummy

*** National Bank tomorrow…

#34 yorkville renter on 12.04.18 at 5:24 pm

I’m starting to think Trump sees the end is nigh so he’s bipolar tweeting to have the markets jump / dive to help him and his friends make some $$$ on the way out.

manipulating markets is probably in his wheelhouse

#35 Alex on 12.04.18 at 5:44 pm

Garth, well written article as usual. Unusually, the math is off. The reduction is 36%, by that does not mean that you simply multiply what he would get at 60 by 1.36.

In the same way a 50% drop requires a 100% gain to get back to its starting point, a 36% reduction requires more than a 50% increase to equal his CPP entitlement at 65 (assuming he has contributed the max for 39 years less his five years of low income drop off).

That’s a long way of saying Bum’s numbers are likely correct. The CFPs on your team will tell you the same.

The maximum CPP payment is unlikely to be earned by someone who has long been retired at age 59. – Garth

#36 Linda on 12.04.18 at 5:57 pm

#5 ‘Wage Cage’ – being retired doesn’t mean you are required to sit around. All the retirees I know are busy little beavers – so much so that the recurring theme is ‘I don’t know how I ever found time to work’. Also, being retired doesn’t mean you can’t work if work is what makes you happy. Retirement is about doing what you want to do.

CPP is Canada’s universal DB pension plan. Unless you have never worked, or only worked ‘under the table’, you & your employers have contributed to CPP. As to when to take it, depends on what works best for you. Garth’s advice to ‘B’ is correct – those who don’t ‘need’ the money should take CPP asap. This especially applies to those who have a pension partner, because under the current CPP rules, the government will only pay a single maximum benefit to any surviving partner. Thus if you & your partner qualify for ‘full’ CPP at age 65 & choose to wait so you both will receive the full benefit at age 65 you would each begin to get just over $1,100 per month (current maximum). However, before the second CPP payment arrives you or your partner die. The survivor continues to receive just over $1,100 per month. The survivor does NOT receive what their partner got, because the survivor is already receiving the ‘maximum benefit’. However, if you & your squeeze began at age 60 & one of you kicked it at age 65, the survivor would see their benefit increase. Whether you’d get the maximum would depend on the contributions/work history of your departed partner, but an increase there would be, as long as you submit the paperwork to claim it.

Now, if you or your partner have no other DB pension other than CPP, it may be beneficial not to take it prior to age 65, especially if your financial picture is not as rosy as you would wish.

Waiting to age 70 is not something I’d recommend unless your finances are so dire that the increase is needed in order to permit retirement to occur. Most people will not live long enough to gain a net benefit from the delay. While it is true that people are living longer, the percentage of those aged 90+ in Canada is less than 1% of the total population. As per the most recent StatsCan numbers, about 1.5 million Canadians are aged 80+. Some 700,000 are between age 80-84; 500,000 are between age 85-89 & the remaining 300,000 includes all those ages 90 & older. Note the sharp decline in numbers as the age increases & place your bets accordingly.

I find it ironic given yesterday’s column that market mayhem is occurring today. There are lots of reasons to presume the market future is bright, so why is it that people seem determined to act as if the end is nigh? Is there such a thing as market mid-life crisis?

#37 Sam the Sham on 12.04.18 at 6:01 pm

#19 Toronto_CA

So not sure there is any moral dilemma to be had about collecting CPP.
————————————–
And there’s no moral dilemma in taking OAS as a senior. If silly little Justin can flit away $50 million on a whim, he can pay me my $600 a month OAS pittance!!

#38 TRUMP on 12.04.18 at 6:02 pm

Reporter ” Mr. Trump you don’t pay your fair share of taxes”

TRUMP ” That’s correct…our governments mismanagement the hell out of 90% of the money they steal from us. I don’t care what my net worth is, whatever I am entitled to I am taking back.”

#39 I'm stupid on 12.04.18 at 6:09 pm

Things are getting bad. I’ve been talking to a bunch of builders that I work with and everyone is saying the same thing; a large percentage of people that purchased new homes in the last year and a half are walking away.

Numerous companies are beginning to lay-off employees. Most are waiting until the holiday season to end before handing out pink slips.

I think we’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg in terms of home value declines in the GTA. I’ve personally seen 3 ghost sites, every buyer walked away from the deal. How long before unemployment/underemployed tradespeople spills into the broader economy?

My prediction is that 2019 will be a year for tears for some. Possibly a made in Canada recession.

#40 common sense on 12.04.18 at 6:13 pm

#33 Yorkville

Donald also Bush Sr. eliminated so the markets would be closed in the USA tomorrow disguised as a National Day of Mourning, knowing they would need a breather after todays hijinx.

What are the odds of Powell resigning within 6 months or being fired ? After all he has to mop up the mess left by the past 3 idiots that ran the FED.

#41 earthboundmisfit on 12.04.18 at 6:20 pm

Following yesterday’s prognostications, methinks thou art dining on a heapin’ helpin’ of crow, red whine, and a dessert of humble pie.

One day. Get serious. – Garth

#42 Darren on 12.04.18 at 6:31 pm

We are back to $6 cauliflower here in southeast BC, brace yourself Garth.

#43 Moses and Bella on 12.04.18 at 6:38 pm

Seriously Bum?

#44 KLNR on 12.04.18 at 6:39 pm

@#5 Wage Cage on 12.04.18 at 2:27 pm
I couldn’t imagine a fate worst than being “retired”. What do you do for the next 40 years?

Sit and and wait while your body and mind atrophy?
___________________________________

The answer is “whatever the hell you want”.

Retirement doesn’t mean sitting around doing nothing.
Unless that’s your thing lol

#45 Shawn on 12.04.18 at 6:41 pm

US bank stocks entered bear market territory today. XLF KRE

Lower rates on the horizon.

#46 Brew on 12.04.18 at 6:43 pm

Great post Garth, particularly of interest to me having just turned 60. I do believe that tax must be paid on CPP payments, so Bum would not be able to invest the full $725/mo. Also, I believe the 36% discount for taking early CPP is applied to the amount that Bum would receive at age 65, which would be about $1130.
No matter, your points re taking the money now are still valid.

Taxes are not withheld from CPP payments at source so, yes, he can invest all of it. $1,130 is the maximum payment which shockingly few quality for. – Garth

#47 Alberta Ed on 12.04.18 at 6:50 pm

Whenever government offers you money, take it and run.

#48 Ian on 12.04.18 at 6:55 pm

#32 JSS

Keep doing that when the bank stocks collapse.

You will not live that long. – Garth

#49 crossbordershopper on 12.04.18 at 6:55 pm

well, a millionaire and his wife, just like gilligans island.
Thurston Howell was cheap, this guy wants his cheque, he needs his cheque like every other Canadian. I am entitled to my entitlements. Yes he is, he should collect every dollar he can as quickly as he can and buy more preferred shares to collect his wonderful taxable dividend.
Canada and its wonderful people, money money money, enjoy it well. Disgruntled old people squirling away every dollar.

#50 Tosser 59 on 12.04.18 at 6:56 pm

@16 Patty Twinkly Toes

Yeah this Bum dude is a total wanker (aka tosser)

Why write in with such an absurd question unless you wanna get-off later while reading the comments section lol

what an internet spanker

#51 Kelly on 12.04.18 at 7:03 pm

#5 Wage Cage Retirement is another word for Freedom.

# 8 Brian Ripley
“We have had 9.8 years of ZIRP and NIRP and goosed everything in sight while producing an insane real estate market being used to launder global criminal cash while opening our society to the massive threat of “designer” drugs that are cheap and easy to produce and proliferate.”

Well said Sir.

————————–
I am depressed with an 800 point drop in the DOW today. Yesterday, I was feeling so good about life.

————————————
Take the money and run Bum !

#52 bitter millennial on 12.04.18 at 7:04 pm

“Additionally, given the fact T2 has grown permanent deficits and the national debt’s exploding, it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that CPP benefits (like OAS) will be corralled in the future. Why incur any political risk”

Don’t worry, there is about a 100% chance the government will wait until Boomers won’t be affected by this and will spring it on Millennials when we hit retirement age… and since wages won’t have budged for decades, we’ll have zero retirement saving because 100% of our wage has to be spent just to rent and eat… but who cares cause we’ll all be under water and won’t be able to breath anyway.

#53 Shawn Allen on 12.04.18 at 7:07 pm

Linda at 35 on CPP at 60…

“However, if you & your squeeze began at age 60 & one of you kicked it at age 65, the survivor would see their benefit increase. ”

***********************************
That is an excellent point and one which is probably not at all well known.

#54 Drill Baby Drill on 12.04.18 at 7:12 pm

What some blogs call hot ??!! GEEZZZ

#55 Sydneysider on 12.04.18 at 7:14 pm

#10 JB should be deleted: in bad taste, and bad grammar.

Agreed. – Garth

#56 Shawn Allen on 12.04.18 at 7:21 pm

In Praise of the Cananda Pension plan

To get maximum CPP you have to have contributed the maximum for 40 years.

This is actuarially sound. With most DB plans your pension is set by your highest five years average salary. That has no sound mathematical basis. If you start in the government in the mail room and end up in a senior role you get to collect as if you had the senior role all along.

In most DB plans those who stay at the same level in the organization get to subsidize the pensions of the rising stars. It’s mathematically unsound and unfair.

And I say that as someone who benefited from this system.

I will not collect maximum CPP because I stopped paying in at age 55. That’s fair. And I am totally fine with it ceasing on my death. It was meant to fund retirement, not inheritance. If the spousal survivor rules were more generous, then the CPP contributions would have to be even higher.

CPP also does not have the mathematical nonsense of “magic numbers” (I am not making that up) that allow early retirement without an actuarial reduction for taking it before age 65.

CPP deserves much credit for being far more mathematically sound than most DB plans and certainly probably ALL government DB plans. Credit where credit is due.

#57 Shawn on 12.04.18 at 7:29 pm

Relax. The FED and the BOC probably stop. We could only have 1 hike left.

#58 technical analysis?? on 12.04.18 at 7:32 pm

i wonder what will happen to the market when GE goes bankrupt? at $7.35 … it’s going to oblivion. maybe their financing arm collapsing will start another run on the banks. oh. that and an inverted yield curve.

wake me up when the SPX is back at 2000 so i can buy some

#59 Cto on 12.04.18 at 7:33 pm

#38 I’m stupid …things getting bad
Same here east GTA. Tonnes of developments 2018. Some 2019. Nothin 2020!

#60 Greg on 12.04.18 at 7:33 pm

You must be in a really good mood today, Garth (despite the markets taking a beating). Your first paragraph was a hoot. The rest, informative and always entertaining.
Thanks.

#61 AK on 12.04.18 at 7:34 pm

“The investment income comes from approximately $3m in non-registered investments. ”
=====================================

So, $150,000.00 dividend income on $3M is a 5% return.
Not too many stocks that pay that high of a dividend, and if they are, the portfolio is not very diversified.

Interesting.

#62 How much has my YLW house fallen in value? on 12.04.18 at 7:46 pm

YLW House Price

July 31, 2018: $782,398

November 31, 2018: $650,785

Collapse underway.

#63 espressobob on 12.04.18 at 7:46 pm

Taking CPP early makes sense. Packing the proceeds into a TFSA, RRSP, or non reg account is dependent on ones income.

Could prove to a smart move especially if your self employed.

#64 Pareto on 12.04.18 at 7:49 pm

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/12/04/vancouver-home-sales-lowest-financial-crisis_a_23608423/?utm_hp_ref=ca-british-columbia

By Daniel Tencer

#65 Linda on 12.04.18 at 7:54 pm

#52 ‘Shawn’ – just to clarify, one does have to file paperwork to get that CPP increase. Doesn’t matter if the government is aware of the death or knows the deceased had a partner. The form must be submitted. There is also a one time death benefit of $2,500 that one can collect. Used to be prorated but with recent CPP changes will now be the full $2,500 regardless of circumstance. Funeral homes tend to bring that benefit up when funeral arrangements are being made & have the paperwork at the ready, as most apply that sum towards the cost.

Further to the CPP survivor benefit. One does not have to wait until age 65 or 60 to collect. One can begin to collect upon the death of a partner, though the benefit may be adjusted based upon the age of the deceased. That too may have changed with the recent adjustments to CPP benefits. At any rate, the surviving partner & any dependent children are eligible to receive CPP survivor benefits. Once the children reach adult status their benefits cease, but the surviving partner continues to receive the benefit for as long as they live. Survivor benefits used to cease upon remarriage but I believe that condition no longer applies. Thus anyone who receives ‘survivor’ benefits could quite possibly end up receiving ‘maximum’ CPP at age 60 via a combination of their own CPP benefit plus the survivor benefit.

#66 Lisa on 12.04.18 at 8:10 pm

Look, Bum will be fine regardless of when he takes CPP. But Fred Vettese is a pretty smart guy and makes a compelling case for delaying it, for people who aren’t quite as loaded as Bum and worry about running out of money.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/retirement/retire-planning/how-deferring-cpp-until-age-70-pays-off-for-retirees/article34209897/

None of those people come here, so it’s okay. First World problems, remember? – Garth

#67 Yuus bin Haad on 12.04.18 at 8:21 pm

About the picture: “Baby, it’s cold outside.”

#68 Newcomer on 12.04.18 at 8:48 pm

#35 Linda on 12.04.18 at 5:57 pm
———

Consistently the best thinker in the comments section.

#69 For those about to flop... on 12.04.18 at 9:05 pm

Recent sale report.

Here is the latest effort from The Tasmanian Institute of Transparency.

Wanna know how to lose over a million dollars?

It’s simple you just jump in a time machine and go back two and a half years and buy a luxury house in Vancouver.

They say it’s only a loss when you crystallize it,well these guys took that advice and ran with it.

The details…

1895 w 60th ave ,Vancouver.

Paid 4.2 February 2016

Sold 3.18 November 2018

Originally asking 3.88

Assessment 3.45

So they started trying to exit the market at 3.88 in February this year ,not even attempting to get back what they paid and it still took all year to sell.

If these numbers hold up until I run my CONFIRMED PINK SNOW post then they lost close to 30% after expenses and a 1.25 million mistake.

One of the worst for sure.

When people were making millions it was on the front page.

Now not a peep…

M44BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/1895-west-60th-avenue

#70 Vanpire Studies on 12.04.18 at 9:16 pm

34 Alex 45 Brew and garth

The $1130 max requires most to pay thru ’til 65.
It’s a 0.6% reduction per month if taken earlier as Alex stated.

But here’s what happens. If Bum stops paying into CPP, 5 years of zero contributions will be added to the calculation. You are allowed to drop your 6 lowest years, and even more if you are primary caregiver for kids. So Bums pensions will be reduced, unless he has been contributing the max since he was 18, and can take his zero years now, which is probably nor the case.

I do know some people who will get a year or two with
no contributions late in life and still get max pensions. good for self-employed who must pay double.

#71 ImGonnaBeSick on 12.04.18 at 9:18 pm

#60 AK – think a little harder… Dividends grow… Over time he could easily have a yield on cost of 5% on a diversified portfolio… So could you.

#72 crowdedelevatorfartz on 12.04.18 at 9:35 pm

@#68 The Flop
Wow……
Or should I say , “Aiiiiiiii Yaaaaa”
A million dollar hit.

It may be the first in Vancouver …..it wont be the last.

#73 Leo Trollstoy on 12.04.18 at 9:42 pm

Easy decision

If you don’t need the government $

Take it now instead of later

#74 Shawn Allen on 12.04.18 at 9:45 pm

#70 ImGonnaBeSick on 12.04.18 at 9:18 pm…

#60 AK – think a little harder… Dividends grow… Over time he could easily have a yield on cost of 5% on a diversified portfolio… So could you.

************************
Let’s not be rude. The deal here was:

” income consists of about $150,000.00 (investment income in the form of mostly dividends, and some interest) …. The investment income comes from approximately $3m in non-registered investments.”

So, that indeed implies 5% yield on about $3 million market value and it’s not all equities. The point was valid, 5% looks high.

Perhaps Bum can reveal both how he got rich and how he is yielding 5% income.

#75 AK on 12.04.18 at 9:46 pm

70 ImGonnaBeSick on 12.04.18 at 9:18 pm
#60 AK – “think a little harder… Dividends grow… Over time he could easily have a yield on cost of 5% on a diversified portfolio… So could you.”
=====================================

I calculate the dividends I receive at the portfolio’s current market value. Not at cost…

#76 DON on 12.04.18 at 9:47 pm

DOG DAM Buyers! Who are they to take a ‘wait and see approach’? Sentiment ain’t the same.

Now it’s the buyers fault and not just the plain fact that house prices are too out of reach. How long does it take to pay a mortgage on a 790K house(Sooke), BC for the average family? (a new house on a tiny lot – no pole, small garage, small lawn). Is the next step a sharper decline in housing starts. I see consumer spending is lagging, where the hell are we headed?

We may need that $50 Million Mr. Trudeau.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/buyers-wait-and-see-approach-responsible-in-part-for-lower-prices-1.4932042

#77 Ick on 12.04.18 at 9:48 pm

I love me some McDonald’s, but now I see that my inclination to use the remaining till was well founded.

https://www.livekindly.co/researchers-poop-found-on-mcdonalds-touchscreen-menus/

Apparently not everyone washes their hands. And it only takes one.

Got to love that $15 minimum wage, who would have expected that forcing McDonald’s to lay off staff would result in a shit epidemic? Just another case of government totally unable to accurately predict what sorrows they sow. $15 minimum wage? Sounds great!!! Listeria epidemic? Didn’t see that coming.

Sure, they should pay someone to go out there and Windex the screen a couple times a day, but that costs $15 an hour now and also the Windex is much more due to carbon taxes.

Governments are idiots.

#78 DON on 12.04.18 at 9:50 pm

Hey Flop,

Are you posting on twitter now? Just curious if …Flipping Flop was your work?

#79 El Joko on 12.04.18 at 9:53 pm

DELETED

#80 Axehead on 12.04.18 at 10:00 pm

Hey Garth,

You might have expected envy from some blog dogs. What we don’t know is how this fellow spends his fortune, and more importantly the time and opportunity it grants him.

The blatant misuse of loaned funds by our prime minister is embarrassing, almost criminal. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

#81 For those about to flop... on 12.04.18 at 10:22 pm

#77 DON on 12.04.18 at 9:50 pm

Hey Flop,

Are you posting on twitter now? Just curious if …Flipping Flop was your work?

////////////////

Hey Donnie,that is not me.

In between Pink Snow and Greaterfool, that’s all I have time for.

Never had a Twitter account or Facebook for that matter.

If there is another Flop,I’ve got two options,see if we’re related, or ask Garth if he has a spare lawyer laying around and take this sucker to court…

M44BC

#82 MARKETS CRASHING!! on 12.04.18 at 10:23 pm

Not looking good for tomorrow. DOW and Nasdaq about to go lower still at looks like from here

Markets closed tomorrow. Go back to sleep. – Garth

#83 Boots on the ground in Ptown on 12.04.18 at 10:34 pm

Recently recieved notice that people trust SECURED card program will be closed. Option to smoothly transition to a diff financial company’s card which works out to about $20 cheaper a year (although not for us anyway since we use the card only a few times a year and theres a monthly inactivity fee) side note that I don’t see how a card with inactivity fees could compete here in the US but anyway I digress. The Apr for the card to transition to is full5% higher! I think things must be bad if a secure card program gets axed? Or did it just not generate enough dough for People’s group, which is of course mostly based out of Ontario and BC and looks pretty heavily into multi family lending.

US: Lending companies laying off employees in their mortgage Depts. (Sofi.) Gateway closing 8 retail locations in Cali due to “the uncertain California market”
Friend who’s been in the property title business for 20 years (US) said already a year ago that it was time to tighten up his households budget… He was wise

http://Www.Housingbubble.blog

#84 Harry on 12.04.18 at 10:38 pm

Not so humble brag – millions sitting around and he is worried about a small bit of money…

#85 Frank N Beans on 12.04.18 at 10:38 pm

“Jabroni” guys like Bum should donate that CPP to a meaningful cause. For Pete’s sake. He’d get the tax write off and feel all warm and fuzzy at the same time. That it doesn’t even seem to occur to him as an option is deeply troubling, but I guess that being overly charitable with his pocketbook didn’t land him in the position he’s in.

#86 unbalanced on 12.04.18 at 10:41 pm

Every time the Donald tweets and opens his mouth the markets respond. Another down day. Me says his people are shorting the market. Wouldnt want to do anything illegal. He is too honest. Ya right!!!

#87 WUL on 12.04.18 at 10:48 pm

Linda the Wise:

Your scenario in your comment re CPP and survivor benefits is not hypothetical.

My sweetheart, wife and best friend of 30 years took hers commencing about November 1, ’16. About $700 per month at age 61. I took mine starting January, ’17 at about $800 per month at 60.

By the end of the month she started her CPP in, she received the diagnosis. Terminal.

She passed away this past April creating a deep and dreadful sorrow for many here.

She received about $12,600 we would never have received otherwise and banked it all. I now receive the max CPP less about the cost of 2 six packs per month. And the $2500 death benefit. We made what proved to be good decisions.

Living proof. Good advice from you as usual.

WUL

#88 Caledondave on 12.04.18 at 10:57 pm

Take your CPP at age 70 silly! You will get 42% more than you would at age 65. CPP is fully indexed against inflation. Burn through your savings as fast as possible. Take OAS at age 65 and if you are lucky enough you can qualify for the GIS supplement, but you have to apply for it. Finally take your RRSP in a RRIF at age 71.
Don’t waste your money on advisors. Run the numbers through an online retirement program like retireware. It only costs $60 for one year.
Sit back and wait for the cashola to roll in……seriously some people don’t know Jack!

#89 For those about to flop... on 12.04.18 at 11:20 pm

Race to a million.

Regular Mike J. wanted me to run this one and I ran out of excuses and relented.

Even though the bottom of the market is well below the million marker, you will find a wide margin in asking prices for the same type of property in East Van.

You can see this type of structure asking for anywhere between a million, up to 1.4 depending on knowledge of current market conditions,need ,greed and probably a few homeowners on speed.

Yes, the drug.

The details…

2254 e 24th ave Vancouver.

Asking 1.05

Assessment 1.24

Is it livable?

Absolutely.

It appears as if it is currently being rented which is why they only spent $5.50 on the window coverings.

The day when everyone in Vancouver is happy with their living situation.

That would be ecstasy…

M44BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/2254-east-24th-avenue

#90 Dave on 12.04.18 at 11:30 pm

I own a small business in Vancouver with a dozen employees, everyone make a descent living. Almost half make over 100k.
Over time Ive gotten to know them on a personal basis. Being an old school guy Im shocked how everyone lives pay check to pay check.
They all spend in my opinion lavishly, nice cars, out for lunches, starbucks, vacations, et c
ALL, cry to me on a regular basis. Life is soooooo hard. More money please.
I do not understand this lifestyle. Apparently everyone is a cry baby, #metoboohoo

#91 Dividend Dan on 12.04.18 at 11:43 pm

#82 Market, brilliant observation. I suggest you sell everything and buy a container of Chinese umbrellas. Maybe this time the sky will actually fall, or rain frogs. Useful too , when Al Gore and Climate Barbie tear back the veil in Trudeaus election campaign and our angry sun fries the earth with burning plastic bags emanating from the bowels of puking dolphins. You’ll be the guy with all the answers. RIP GHWB. PS, let us know when the banks shutter, utilities turn off the gas, telecoms stop communicating and railways stop running. We’ll know then that Four Horsemen have ushered in Armageddon. Until then, get a grip.

I just thought I’d match crazy with crazy.

#92 KTown Breakdown on 12.04.18 at 11:49 pm

So Bum’s going to take his CPP early and pay 48%-53% in taxes on it. Interesting.

#93 Vampire studies on 12.04.18 at 11:51 pm

What might make a good post is hearing from any retired blog dogs as to how much they saved, what they spend in retirement, what town or region etc.

I bet there would be considerable disparity, but also some great suggestions as to how people make do and
what they can find for fun, vacations, etc.

I’m same age as bum, don’t have $3M, but am getting to the point I don’t want to work anymore.

#94 TRUMP on 12.05.18 at 12:01 am

MARKETS CRASHIN……

Time to get RICH!!!!

Only the FOOLS will understand.

#95 TRUMP on 12.05.18 at 12:05 am

#82 MARKETS CRASHING!!

SELL, SELL, SELL

So I can buy your shares for cheap!!!

#96 Dolce Vita on 12.05.18 at 12:48 am

Your favorite “paralysis by analysis” charts are back for yet another year Garth.

Debt dragging down the economy. What a surprise.

But hey, pretty shiny charts that are today littering Canadian Twitter in its back alleys and front lawns…lots of financial pack rats out there it would seem.

Good on MacLean’s.

https://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/the-most-important-charts-to-watch-in-2019/

#97 What if you have DB on 12.05.18 at 1:09 am

All good points, now something no one mentioned.
I am receiving a pension from a plan that was combined with the CPP in the 60s in other words I receive a pension plus what’s called a bridging . The bridging is the CPP portion. So when I turn 65 I loose the bridging. In exchange for getting the CPP
For example my pension is $4,000 a month plus bridging of 1,000 a month, when I turn 65 my pension is $4,000 a month and I loose the bridging but can collect the CPP of $1,000 a month.
So technically no change. However if I take CPP early let’s say at 60 now $700 a month, I am short 300 a month when I am 65. So is it better to take the CPP early and save it. I realize my numbers are not exact, but for the example they are close enough for analysis.
Thanks hope,I explained that for everyone to,understand.

#98 Leo Trollstoy on 12.05.18 at 1:19 am

If bum only has $5-6m and is 60 the. It makes sense to take the government pittance. There’s no point waiting

$10m is the minimum to have @60 y/o imo

Having $1.5m stuck in a primary residence is pretty bad, but there’s no other way to explain why they only have $5m such an advanced age

“A single digit millionaire is just a middle class person who’s scared about money”

https://youtu.be/Iq4qASI1Fok

#99 Smoking Man on 12.05.18 at 3:05 am

#82 MARKETS CRASHING!! on 12.04.18 at 10:23 pm

Not looking good for tomorrow. DOW and Nasdaq about to go lower still at looks like from here

Markets closed tomorrow. Go back to sleep. – Garth
….

Obviously a basement dweller with no skin in the game. Or he would have known.

Back in SoCal. Home now. So wietd being in Toronto last week.
The lamd of fake self confidence. UN loyal subjects. A race to kiss the rings of unelected elites that suck up teachers put on a pedestal.

I’m in the land of the brave and the home of the free.

It’s a good fit. I despise suck ups.

#100 Tony on 12.05.18 at 6:40 am

Re: #5 Wage Cage on 12.04.18 at 2:27 pm

You just play sports, I retired when I was age 35. I’ve been playing pinball machines, snooker on the big 6×12 foot tables, bowling, golf, darts, boating, eating out every day. I don’t really have enough time because I was always short on time.

#101 Tony on 12.05.18 at 6:49 am

Re: #88 Caledondave on 12.04.18 at 10:57 pm

Government insolvency is the number one reason to take your Canada pension plan money at age 60.

#102 Elcheapo on 12.05.18 at 7:04 am

Mr Turner,

Won’t the chap in your story pay absolute max taxes on his CPP at age 60? Assuming he retires at 65 and his income drops does it not make sense to assume the taxes he pays on his increased CPP would be lower? Should this not be taken into consideration when deciding to take CPP early?

His income is from investing, not income. Irrelevant. – Garth

#103 slick on 12.05.18 at 7:08 am

#90 Dave in vancouver;
you could double their pay, and in a few months they would be in the same spot. [perhaps to embarrassed to ask for mo money].
We had tenants in the same spot, she worked for me to cover the rent, heat and hydro included. He made $70K/year, they didn’t drink, but still couldnt pay off their debts. He was gonna apply for a foremans job, which he was not qualified for, cause they needed mo money. oy vey

#104 Figure it Out on 12.05.18 at 8:03 am

Buy rocks instead of the riskless obligations of the world’s biggest economy that pay you to own them?

I understand when an academic refers to Treasury bonds as “risk free” because it makes the math easier. But when people living in the real world with its real inflation and its POTUS who’s really mused about negotiating a discount with America’s creditors, I shake my head.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/07/us/politics/donald-trumps-idea-to-cut-national-debt-get-creditors-to-accept-less.html

Not a gold owner, not an inflation truther. Just a man who reads the news.

#105 dharma bum on 12.05.18 at 8:20 am

#5 Wage Cage

I couldn’t imagine a fate worst than being “retired”. What do you do for the next 40 years?

Sit and and wait while your body and mind atrophy?
——————————————————————–

First, you need to develop an imagination and then get some interests other that being a wage slave.

Second, you need to read this:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com

Otherwise, happy slaving.

#106 Frank The Tank on 12.05.18 at 8:37 am

Toronto sales down (-15%), but so are the listings. Big plunge in listings, actually (-27%). Prices up 3.5%.

Much like the guy who saw two rainbows at the same time, WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!?!

#107 Evangeline on 12.05.18 at 8:59 am

“#86 unbalanced on 12.04.18 at 10:41 pm
Every time the Donald tweets and opens his mouth the markets respond. Another down day. Me says his people are shorting the market. Wouldnt want to do anything illegal. He is too honest. Ya right!!!…”

I’m pretty sure it has to do with the Saudi Arabia /Kashoggi (sp?) problem, which is unsettled at present.

When the issue seemed to be settled, the markets went up, but many people are making lots of negative noise about how it was settled, including supposed friends of Trump’s, like Lindsey Graham. They are demanding that the USA cut off diplomatic relations with KSA.

If the U.S.A. cuts off KSA as an ally, the markets won’t respond well, imo, because the financial side of the relationship puts billions and billions of dollars into the USA treasury.

#108 Remembrancer on 12.05.18 at 9:11 am

#14 JB on 12.04.18 at 3:06 pm
T2 has to go quickly. When they used to say in the last election hes just not ready. I don’t know who “they” were but they were correct.
————————————————————-
“They” were the Conservative Party of Canada, just off a Harper hangover and starting out a campaign with just a touch too many white-right ideologues, the last whiffs of a western protest party and a probably earnest public servant / uncharismatic new leader from Regina-Qu’Appelle…

#109 Evangeline on 12.05.18 at 9:20 am

#99 Smoking Man “I’m in the land of the brave and the home of the free.”

I’d never heard this version of The Star Spangled Banner before yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8C7i9kdEf8&list=RDc8C7i9kdEf8&index=1

#110 For those about to flop... on 12.05.18 at 10:16 am

Message for my buddy WULLY.

I thought something was going on when you took a break from the blog.

I thought it might be the transition back from Fort Mac.

I did not think anything as serious as what you went through happened.

I’m sorry to hear about your wife.

I can’t write proper at the best of times ,so I have no hope of saying the right words now.

My Dad is still fighting for his life,mid sixties.

My wife’s best friend growing up just got diagnosed ,just turned 50.

If we can give loved ones just one more day with their families then it would have been worth me annoying Garth Turner with thousands of posts…

M44BC

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a small donation for cancer research.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#111 jess on 12.05.18 at 10:17 am

Ireland, Sweden block plans for EU-wide digital sales tax
“…But Ireland and Sweden have cited “fundamental objections” to the proposals, arguing that the European Union’s tax proposals should not be finalised before the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) achieves a global agreement on tax, which is expected by 2020.”

Taxman probes Netflix accounts after the streaming giant declared pre-tax UK profits of £1.12m – despite taking up to £850m-a-year off British subscribers

Streaming company Netflix is under investigation by HMRC over its tax affairs
Netflix estimated to make £71.9million from its British subscribers each month
HMRC could be looking into the transfer pricing deal between the British arm and its Dutch parent

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6453381/Taxman-probes-Netflix-accounts-streaming-giant-declared-pre-tax-UK-profits-just-1-12m.html

=======
German Police Search Deutsche Bank Offices in Tax Haven Case (3 Dec 2018)
Danske Charges Raise Questions on Potential Sanctions Breaches (3 Dec 2018)
Danske Investigators Urged by Danes to Look at More Banks (3 Dec 2018)

#112 James on 12.05.18 at 10:36 am

#99 Smoking Man on 12.05.18 at 3:05 am

#82 MARKETS CRASHING!! on 12.04.18 at 10:23 pm

Not looking good for tomorrow. DOW and Nasdaq about to go lower still at looks like from here

Markets closed tomorrow. Go back to sleep. – Garth
….
Obviously a basement dweller with no skin in the game. Or he would have known.
Back in SoCal. Home now. So wietd being in Toronto last week.
The lamd of fake self confidence. UN loyal subjects. A race to kiss the rings of unelected elites that suck up teachers put on a pedestal.
I’m in the land of the brave and the home of the free.
It’s a good fit. I despise suck ups
___________________________________________
Jesus Christ old man take an ESL course for god sake.

Seriously? Your back in the land of suck ups in America you ass. Every single aid around Donald J trump is a suck up you oblivious old man. Who in their right mind would want to work in that toxic atmosphere without and agenda of their own. Now here is a very big word for you to look up! Look up “Sycophancy” An obsequious behavior toward someone important in order to gain advantage! Now please don’t comment on our beloved Canada anymore since your not living in the True North Strong and Free. BTW Go and get your American citizenship you old fart if you love the USA so much you would truly become a citizen and be able to vote! Until then your just a visitor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/sucking-up-has-always-been-part-of-washington-culture-in-the-trump-era-its-a-sport/2018/06/05/e4728164-64e7-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4ead35b9cc40

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/12/12/suck-up-lessons-deborah-parker-mark-parker-sucking-up-brief-consideration-sycophancy/

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episode-362-trump-vs-mueller-hollywood-s-dark-side-thc-infused-drinks-sucking-up-a-history-and-more-1.4380490/sucking-up-a-brief-look-at-brown-nosing-from-dante-to-kellyanne-conway-1.4380509

#113 jess on 12.05.18 at 10:40 am

that spelling is with a er /or
Kingsbridge, who are at the centre of a police investigation Cotton says large tax rebates were ‘siphoned off by financial advisers to fund overseas property developments, which were then allegedly sold to footballers on vastly inflated terms’, so very few of them received any financial benefit from tax deferral.

The Investor Rescue Organisation has spoken to a host of players who have lost money after putting wages into film schemes and property ventures.
Dozens of former Premier League footballers have been left ‘suicidal’ after incurring crippling debts from tax-avoidance schemes, bad financial advice and an alleged £100million fraud.

The Investor Rescue Organisation has spoken to a host of players who have lost money after putting wages into film schemes and property ventures.

The stress has put a massive strain on many stars’ relationships and their mental health, with a number suffering depression and accusing the players’ union, the PFA, of lack of support, Sportsmail can reveal.

#114 jess on 12.05.18 at 10:45 am

The focus on tax treatment has intensified in Denmark after a money laundering scandal involving its largest lender Danske Bank and a wider European dividend stripping scandal.

https://www.reuters.com/article/denmark-tax-pensions-ceo/update-2-danish-pensions-boss-quits-after-criticism-of-past-tax-schemes-idUSL8N1Y11E6

#115 Exilled on 12.05.18 at 11:03 am

Sir Garth.

Sir I have a problem accessing the blog report from yesterday. I cannot recieve the report form yesterday. The blog keeps going to the November 27, 2018 recording. If you could correct that it would be helpful. Thank you for time to correct this matter. Thank You

#116 Figure it Out on 12.05.18 at 11:09 am

Does anyone know what happens when you put in a market sell order on the US dollar version of a volatile, TSX listed ETF on a day when Canadian markets are open but US markets are closed?

…Asking for a fiend.

#117 IHCTD9 on 12.05.18 at 11:20 am

#87 WUL on 12.04.18 at 10:48 pm

She passed away this past April creating a deep and dreadful sorrow for many here.
____

I’m sorry to hear that WUL – my belated condolences to you and your family.

#118 jess on 12.05.18 at 11:22 am

the first of many panama papers from the doj:

“IRS-CI specializes in unraveling these intricate offshore tax schemes and following the money around the globe wherever it may lead.

…”As alleged, these defendants went to extraordinary lengths to circumvent U.S. tax laws in order to maintain their wealth and the wealth of their clients,” said Manhattan U.S. Attorney Berman. “For decades, the defendants, employees and a client of global law firm Mossack Fonseca allegedly shuffled millions of dollars through offshore accounts and created shell companies to hide fortunes. In fact, as alleged, they had a playbook to repatriate un-taxed money into the U.S. banking system. Now, their international tax scheme is over, and these defendants face years in prison for their crimes.”

“The unsealing of this indictment sends a clear message that IRS-CI is actively engaged in international tax enforcement, and more investigations are on the way,” said IRS-CI Chief Don Fort. “IRS-CI specializes in unraveling these intricate offshore tax schemes and following the money around the globe wherever it may lead. Cases like this help maintain the public’s confidence in our tax system by letting them know that we investigate and prosecute those who evade their tax obligation.”

“Today we announce the indictment of four individuals who allegedly defrauded the U.S. government through a large scale, intercontinental money laundering and wire fraud scheme, associated with Mossack Fonseca and its affiliates,” said HSI Special Agent-in-Charge Angel M. Melendez. “HSI’s El Dorado Task Force, together with the IRS, built a case that uncovered an alleged complex trail of offshore shell corporations and bogus foundations used to disguise the beneficial ownership of huge amounts of money. These efforts reflect the commitment of U.S. law enforcement to follow that trail and apprehend these criminals regardless of where they are in the world.”

According to the indictment, from at least in or about 2000 through in or about 2017,…..

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-defendants-charged-panama-papers-investigation-their-roles-panamanian-based-global-law

#119 unbalanced on 12.05.18 at 11:24 am

To #107 Evangeline
I respect your opinion and thanks for responding.
Its all about the money. Thats all this world has become

#120 Tater on 12.05.18 at 11:52 am

#106 Frank The Tank on 12.05.18 at 8:37 am
Toronto sales down (-15%), but so are the listings. Big plunge in listings, actually (-27%). Prices up 3.5%.

Much like the guy who saw two rainbows at the same time, WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!?!
—————————————————————–
Means sellers know they won’t get the price they want, so they’ll wait until the spring. When they also won’t get the price they want.

#121 The Equation on 12.05.18 at 11:54 am

#106 Frank The Tank – It means never trust the averages, and when seeing prices up one must consider the weighted factor into the equation.

#122 I on 12.05.18 at 12:36 pm

wow, I cannot even begin to think how preposterous Bum sounds…I have three little kids and together with my wife live in a semi on $90,000 a year.
Not that we are not educated, bioinformatics and social work, but I guess life circumstances…
I’m , wondering how many people are in my or worse situation in Canada.

#123 Linda on 12.05.18 at 12:44 pm

#87 ‘WUL’ – so sorry to hear of your loss. In the great pension debate, people tend to overlook that many pension contributors will never draw on the plan, or only receive for a limited time. While survivor benefits will in no way make up for the loss of a loved one, they do provide a way to take care of those who will be left behind. That matters.

#124 IHCTD9 on 12.05.18 at 12:52 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/canadian-radio-stations-baby-it-s-cold-outside-1.4931867

OK, that’s it, I’m starting a business. Human bubble wrap. Can’t see through it, 100% soundproof. Guaranteed to blind all your senses to the outside world or your money back. Soft furry interior panels adorned with a soothing snowflake pattern. Free crate of Xanax pills comes with the first 50 orders.

#125 Doug t on 12.05.18 at 12:58 pm

#114 – I believe a very high percentage of canucks are in the same boat – “Bum” just wanted an ego stroke

RATM

#126 jess on 12.05.18 at 1:08 pm

According to the DOJ, Mossack Fonseca employees deliberately created bank accounts in tax havens to hinder enforcement investigations and advised U.S. taxpayers to secretly repatriate money. The names of the real owners of shell companies “generally did not appear” on offshore company paperwork.

The Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), a far-reaching law passed by former President Barack Obama that forces foreign banks to disclose all American accounts to U.S. authorities, and subjects Americans abroad to a wide range of restrictions on banking activities.
===============================
Will the U.S. president repeal it as he has many other of his predecessor’s laws?

https://www.democratsabroad.org/fbar_fatca_task_force_report
================

…”But the U.S. did not sign on to the Common Reporting Standard, and experts say Washington is unlikely to join.”

“The EU has an interest in having access to information from the U.S.,” said Pascal Saint-Amans chief of the OECD’s tax unit.
==================
Measuring income inequality

“We commend Representative Maloney for introducing this legislation,” said Heather Boushey, Executive Director and Chief Economist of the Washington Center for Equitable Growth. “Proponents of last year’s tax cuts have been touting GDP growth as evidence of their success. But the question we need to ask is who benefitted from that growth? Did it mostly go to those at the top of the income ladder – just like the tax benefits themselves? This bill is a critical step towards answering these kinds of questions and helping us ensure broad-based economic growth.”

https://equitablegrowth.org/the-washington-center-for-equitable-growth-applauds-the-introduction-of-the-measuring-real-income-growth-act-of-2018/
Heather Boushey, Executive Director and Chief Economist of the Washington Center for Equitable Growth. “Proponents of last year’s tax cuts have been touting GDP growth as evidence of their success. But the question we need to ask is who benefitted from that growth? Did it mostly go to those at the top of the income ladder – just like the tax benefits themselves? This bill is a critical step towards answering these kinds of questions and helping us ensure broad-based economic growth.”

Since the 1930s, it has been known that an aggregate calculation of national income is a misleading measure of the economic well-being of the country and its citizens. Robert F. Kennedy later said that “GDP measures everything… except that which makes life worthwhile.”

“With 80% of U.S. venture capital investment going to only five metro areas, clearly we’re not doing a good enough job of aligning federal incentives to benefit the communities and populations that most need it,” said Congressman Delaney. “Income-driven analysis will provide a better understanding of how we can help those at all levels of the income spectrum – and this bill begins that important conversation.”

“Although President Trump touts the strength of the economy as an indicator of success, millions of hard-working American families continue to face issues such as food insecurity, homelessness, stagnant wages, and increasing costs of gasoline and basic necessities,” said Congresswoman Adams. “This legislation will help us to better understand the state of our nation’s economic growth and how it impacts Americans at all income levels.”

#127 ronh on 12.05.18 at 1:14 pm

Where’s my rate hike?

#128 jess on 12.05.18 at 1:53 pm

accidental landlords grow ops and rent scammers

Landlords claim ‘professional tenant’ scammed them out of thousands in rent

Landlords say same couple has departed homes leaving thousands in damage
Peggy Lam · CBC News · Posted: Dec 03, 2018 5:53 PM ET | Last Updated: December 3
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/tenant-rental-scam-waterloo-region-1.4915096

#129 LP on 12.05.18 at 1:54 pm

#87 WUL on 12.04.18 at 10:48 pm

I join others here in expressing my condolences on the loss of your dear wife. There is no void like the one we look into after their passing. One year on, I can tell you it’s still fresh. But – and there is a but – one day, maybe soon, you will begin to have more good days than bad, fewer tears and more smiles. All present evidence to the contrary, you will be happy again.

#130 IHCTD9 on 12.05.18 at 2:33 pm

#122 I on 12.05.18 at 12:36 pm
wow, I cannot even begin to think how preposterous Bum sounds…I have three little kids and together with my wife live in a semi on $90,000 a year.
Not that we are not educated, bioinformatics and social work, but I guess life circumstances…
I’m , wondering how many people are in my or worse situation in Canada.
_____

Your household income is ~25% higher than the Canadian Median, so you are doing better than most on an income basis.

If you are finding life expensive and tough, it’s definitely not your income, it’s your location.

#131 Song Lyrics on 12.05.18 at 2:41 pm

#124 IHCTD9 – Welcome to the new normal, because all history that doesn’t conform to the agenda must be erased from past memory. No more freedom of opposing views will be tolerated, and there will be more to come.

#132 jess on 12.05.18 at 2:51 pm

Value of friends data
Exhibit 83

discussion of Royal Bank of Canada neko
spend alongside whether they should
be whitelisted

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Note-by-Chair-and-selected-documents-ordered-from-Six4Three.pdf

#133 Sold Out on 12.05.18 at 2:53 pm

Perhaps this article sheds a little light on today’s blog victim.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/12/rich-people-happy-money/577231/

#134 LP on 12.05.18 at 2:53 pm

#112 James on 12.05.18 at 10:36 am

There’s just something so, I don’t know, ironic when someone attempts to correct the language usage of another poster. Does the expression “Physician heal thyself” come to mind James?

Your (you’re) and a few commas wouldn’t go amiss either. When one reads Smoking Man’s stuff it’s a little like one of those e-mail quizzes that go around every once and awhile. You know the kind…where the letters within words are scrambled or, sometimes, missing altogether. One can still read the essence of the message because one’s brain unscrambles the thing.

So take comfort James; yours are at least equal to Smoking Man’s conributions albeit sometimes better.

#135 jess on 12.05.18 at 3:06 pm

California judge condemns startup for giving secret Facebook papers to UK

Parliament seized confidential documents under scrutiny in Six4Three’s lawsuit against social network

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/30/facebook-lawsuit-six4three-documents-court-uk

#136 curious on 12.05.18 at 3:51 pm

Is it time to back up the truck for Preferred shares???

#137 PastThePeak on 12.05.18 at 4:33 pm

#124 IHCTD9 on 12.05.18 at 12:52 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/canadian-radio-stations-baby-it-s-cold-outside-1.4931867

OK, that’s it, I’m starting a business. Human bubble wrap. Can’t see through it, 100% soundproof. Guaranteed to blind all your senses to the outside world or your money back. Soft furry interior panels adorned with a soothing snowflake pattern. Free crate of Xanax pills comes with the first 50 orders.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lookin’ forward to a good ole fashioned book burning myself…

#138 PastThePeak on 12.05.18 at 4:35 pm

#136 curious on 12.05.18 at 3:51 pm
Is it time to back up the truck for Preferred shares???
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, I have been. Been locking in some nice juicy dividends at 5.5% and better for a few years (and after that of course it depends on what the BoC 5-year yield is). Also picked up some perpetuals that were soundly beaten.

#139 Steve B on 12.05.18 at 8:42 pm

I would disagree with taking the CPP at age 60 for the vast majority of Canadians. Drawdown your RRSPs at a lower tax rate from age 60 to 70 and create your own DB plan in the form of increased CPP and OAS at age 70. You’ll pay less taxes on your RRSP withdrawals (from age 60-70) and lower taxes on your terminal return (due to less money in the RRIF).

Did you just tell people to take less money when they’re healthy and retired so they’ll pay less taxes after they die? You must be a lot of fun at parties. – Garth

#140 DON on 12.05.18 at 11:21 pm

So our economy and related debt is so fragile we cannot handle simple rate hikes. YIKES!

How will house prices do during a recession? The market has been spooked. Prices are un-affordable as it is, how much higher can they go? Whose’s gonna buy them, the money launderers and drug king pings that were allowed to do business under the former BC Liberals or Wynne’s crew in Ontario? In BC’s case the first party to call for a Quebec style corruption investigation wins a majority.

How many people under the age of 36 have experienced a full on recession in their adult years and under current debt burdens? Things don’t happen in a vacuum. Lost jobs affect consumerism and consumer spending is declining. How can anyone who just read what Garth wrote not be a little worried about our collective future.

The Australians barely moved rates and their housing market is set to be the same or worst then the 1987 downturn. A couple of months back it was a temporary dip, then it was a soft landing, then it was much better than 1987 and now there are hoping that it won’t be worse. AND economic growth is declining.

Why on earth are the real estate cheer leaders happy that Canada is not in a position to raise our interest rates. How attractive do we look to international, let alone our own native investors.

And what happened to thinking things through. Omitted variable bias is the go to thinking model for some.

Reality bites!

#141 Take it — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – Armchair Financial Canada on 12.06.18 at 12:08 pm

[…] Source: Take it — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – The Troubled Future of Real Estate […]