Over the course of eight years as a hired financial gun I spoke an average of 100 times every twelve months, before deciding running a blog was a helluva lot simpler (and so much more glamorous). From crystal hotel ballrooms to grimy church basements with a borrowed bedsheet as my projection screen, I saw the nation.
Tough gig. But instructive. A lesson quickly learned was how local most of us are. In a world where mobility’s never been easier, people are like trout. They just want to swim home, live in their puddle and raise fingerlings. Sometimes that works out great. Other times, and places, it’s a disaster.
When asked why they stay in unlivably expensive Vancouver, for example, most people say ‘family’ keeps them. Because bonds of proximity have never been broken, they’re afraid to try. So they end up struggling in a city which pretty much guarantees financial insecurity.
While not being much fun, spending years on the road (with your spouse as a roadie) sure widens the view. Tired of being chained to the Big Smoke, a few years ago we contemplated where to set down other roots. The decision was a seaside town of two thousand souls. It was perfect. Now we spend lots of time in a place where nice houses cost four bills, nobody really needs a car, doors don’t lock and I’ve never smelled weed. It should’ve happened decades earlier. If I were a young man again, living in a time when technology made location irrelevant, the best road in the city would be the one in the rearview.
I thought of this as I read Joe’s letter.
My partner and I are 38 with kids: 5 and 3. We live in a Toronto house that we purchased back in 2008 when the world was burning. We were younger, dumber, and less aware of sound personal finance principles or what sort of sheer financial and personal chaos and upheaval becoming parents would be. As the story turns out, we were also very lucky. In the last 10 years, the value of the property has appreciated to more than double what we paid and our real estate agent thinks we can get about 850-900k based on houses just sold on our street.
Our mortgage has 130k left on it. Over the decade we’ve put in 130k from the combined property taxes, insurance, utilities, repairs, and renos – roughly 13k/year. If we were to find a fool to pay the theoretical going price and factor in the 3% commissions/fees, pay off the balance of the mortgage, subtract the decade of property-related costs above, we’d make out with about 6.2% annualized returns since 2008. Not terrible that our living arrangement also nearly matched what a long-term market average may provide, however, since 2008 the S&P500 returned about 13.9% annualized.
We are no longer enamored with the idea of owning a house and with the real estate bubble in the process of bursting, it is an opportunity to cash in. Living in this City with a couple of young kids and both of us spending way too much time working, commuting, and rushing around in a constant state of exhaustion has significantly eaten into our wellbeing and health. Let’s not mention the $24k a year in before/after/daycare fees – and I’ll keep mentioning it because it hurts – multiply that by 4 to get an idea of the total spent over the last 5 years with 2 youngs and no free-extended-family daycare situation to speak of.
We net about 130k after all deductions and have worked our savings rate back up to 30% with being frugal and have amassed 400k. We have a few places in mind that we may consider relocating to where housing and/or cost of living are lower and our job prospects remain reasonable and we have social connections. Some options include Lunenburg, Halifax, Charlottetown, Niagara Region, or similar rural towns in Southern Ontario. Schools and family Doctors are an important factor. Renting a house will be our strategy. No more buying property, considering our net worth, unless we can nab something for a pittance the next time the world is set on fire.
Cutting out 1 or both of our commutes is the goal as well as removing the $24k Toronto childcare cost by one of us having flexible or reduced hours. We can afford to chop out 24-30k of our net income if we don’t need to use childcare. These are possibilities given the various trades and skills that we have and can leverage working from home or doing a variety of consulting/manual/contract work in a smaller community. The whole point is that we have some flexibility in adjusting our situation to optimize our finances and wellbeing at the same time.
At this point, I should probably be paying you by the hour to read this.
—- The Question —-
So, here’s the question: Is checking out of Toronto and heading out to the seaside financially and mentally sane? I’ve run some numbers and it’s possible to also keep the Toronto home and rent it out for $3k /month, pay some property management company, and have it cover the rest of the mortgage and produce some income over the years while it weathers the real estate ups and downs.
The first question, Joe, you’ve already answered. Not only sane, but inspired.
The second question has an equally simple reply: of course not. You’d have to collect more than $5,000 in monthly rent just to break even on the equity invested in the house plus its carrying costs. Most of that would be fully taxable and the house itself could become an illiquid, aging, expensive anchor in a place you don’t want to live in, occupied by tenants you don’t control and probably hate you. Why not collect your windfall, taxless gain and move on? Invest the cash in a balanced and diversified portfolio instead of sticking it all in one asset you must insure, maintain and babysit? If retiring early is a goal, you need liquid assets, not a pile of city bricks.
Cut the cord, Joe. It’s a giant, glorious, affordable and welcoming country. Be cool and you might even get to ride on my tugboat.
178 comments ↓
Childcare?
We talkin’ ’bout childcare…
M44BC
“See How Much More Expensive Childcare Is than Getting a Higher Education.
Unemployment in the U.S. is now hovering around its lowest point in almost half a century, and pretty much anyone who wants a job right now can get one. But here’s one segment of the workforce that may not be experiencing the benefits of growth: new parents. In fact, childcare is so expensive that in many states around the country it costs more than getting a college education.
A new report from Child Aware of America compares the average annual center-based childcare costs for infants across the U.S. with the average annual tuition and fees at public universities. Child Aware of America is a nationwide nonprofit focused on reducing the costs associated with children’s learning in childcare. They relied on their own survey results from January 2018 to calculate childcare costs, and they tapped the College Board Trends in College Pricingfor tuition numbers from 2017. We placed these figures on a map to visualize the differences by region, letting you see in a straightforward way the states and regions with the biggest problems in affordability.
Here’s a stunning fact. Dropping your kid off at daycare costs more in 28 states than getting a college education (data was not captured in Montana and South Dakota). The problem is most readily apparent across the Northeast and West Coast. In fact, the state with the highest disparity is Massachusetts, where childcare costs an astonishing $7,683 more on average each year than higher education. California is not far behind with an average difference $6,862. It’s even more expensive in Washington, DC where new parents can expect to spend $23,666 on childcare but only $8,060 on tuition for a public university.
The numbers don’t look as bad across the middle section of the country. College is slightly more expensive than childcare in states like Illinois ($147) and Oklahoma ($88). And the most favorable numbers are clustered around the South in states like Mississippi ($2,681), Arkansas ($1,827) and Louisiana ($1,762).
But even in states where childcare costs less than college, there really isn’t any good news. In truth, these numbers reflect a two-part crisis in affordability. New parents struggle to pay for high-quality childcare just like they face problems for high-quality public education. Keep in mind many parents opt for private childcare that they pay for on their own. The same qualification applies to higher education, where private tuition costs are often much higher than what’s available at a public school. That’s why the IRS provides for several tax-advantaged savings accounts, including the Dependent Care FSA and the 529 Plan. It’s also related to President’s Trump proposal for 6-weeks paid parental leave. And in fact the prohibitive costs associated with childcare are a major reason why some parents decide to stay home with their newborns as opposed to returning to work. And high costs are also a major reason why young people take out massive loans to pay for college, or skip it altogether.
All of this suggests that if you want to start a family and eventually send your kids to college, it’s never too early to start saving.”
26 November 2018
Visualization
https://howmuch.net/articles/child-care-vs-college-costs
I didn’t know you owned a tugboat!!!!!!!!!!
Unsinkable. – Garth
The best of both worlds is a small town not too far from a major city.
Joe and the Ms. are under 40, have a 8-900K GTA SFD with only 130K left on the mortgage, and a 400K nest egg?
All while raising two kids in the hellishly expensive GTA, yet still pounding the mortgage into oblivion?
Joe – cut your family loose, you’ll be just fine. Sell and move, you’ll have a mil or so. Head to NS and buy a nice little homestead and you and the Ms. find a part time job paying minimum wage. You’ll gross 80K easy while not killing the principal off – that’s almost 10K more than the NS median household income working 2.5 days per week each.
Made in the shade.
I live an hour from toronto in the country, went to Toronto a few weeks ago and watched a raptors game. The walk from our car to the game it stinks like marijuana the whole way. Toronto really has gone to pot. why would you live downtown
“Be cool and you might even get to ride on my tugboat.”
_____
…and I though owning a few dozers was unique!
Selling the house under current market conditions is a no-brainer.
However….lining up “work from anywhere” consulting gigs is easier said than done. Particularly since many people are currently entertaining the same idea. Especially when you factor in semi-retiring baby-boomers looking to reduce their own housing costs but with higher-up job connections than most millennials have. And with two very young kids? One of the couple will have to have a reliable paycheck coming in.
My advice? Call a recruiter in the areas you hope to move while the real estate agent puts your house on the market. Try to line up a job before moving far. Don’t just “wing it” and hope for the best.
Can we have a ride on that tugboat! What a cool deal ~ is there a photo on Instagram? Oh, yeah and who is the captain? Does he/she have the papers?
Papers not required. It’s armed. – Garth
RE: “Back that statement up. Or we might assume you fabricate facts. – Garth”
I lived in Oshawa for 25 years.
GM folks don’t live anywhere north of Hwy 2 (King Street).
North Oshawa is for the most part divided up into two types of residents:
1. 407 commuters (bedroom community)
2. Professionals in the city (doctors, lawyers, teachers, university profs, accountants, etc).
Mostly, it is the former. When they built the 407, suddenly you had this massive residential construction boom in the North West sector of the city. GM has been there since the late 1800’s and they never attracted that kind of residential development.
The 407 commuters brought with them children (who need teachers), divorces and white collar crime (which requires lawyers), real estate deals (more lawyers) and a need for professional services like accountants, universities, etc.
Those people live in the north of the city. Where the house you put in your blog is located.
Cheers!
Keep the HOG
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/metro-seattle-home-prices-falling-at-fastest-rate-in-u-s/
Moved out of Vancouver to a charming small town in the Kootenays. A place where nice houses cost four bills, nobody really needs a car and doors don’t lock. There is a lot of weed though.
Moved for similar reasons. Left Ontario and when I visit if it more then a few days, I cannot wait to leave. I should specify that I refer to Southern Ontario not the beautiful and majestic Northern Ontario. Driving around Lake Superior in the fall was inspiring to say the least. Have the magnificent Rockies now. We live in one hell of a country.
Hmmmm …. no disrespect intended, but did you not “cut your teeth” in the Big Smoke? Is moving out to small town wherever with fewer opportunities and poor internet connections a good idea if you are far from retirement?
Haven’t been out of the ghetto much lately, have you? – Garth
Thee old idea of growing up and then dying of old age in Metro Vancouver is related to weather. However, summer forest fires and the smoke are beginning to get annoying!!
However, if you are used to the crappy weather around Toronto, anything is an improvement and truth be said, people in Ontario have thicker skins than the flakes in Vancouver.
Lived in the area all my life (family appeared on the 1911 census) and when I am finished with my Snivel Servant job, it’s adios.
The average family health care premium in the US is $10,000 a year and the average deductible is $4,300. However, most Americans with jobs are covered by employer-sponsored plans. One advantage: no 12-month wait times to see a specialist, get an MRI or schedule surgery, as is the case in many parts of Canada. Plus world-class clinics treating a growing number of Canadians. Oh yeah, and less income tax. So don’t fall for the myth our system is necessarily superior. – Garth
_ _ _
Hmm, I was referred to a specialist who saw me within three weeks and he in turn referred me for an MRI which I got two weeks later. One of the advantages of living in a big city I guess.
Not the case normally, or in Toronto. Unless you’re in bad shape. – Garth
Pink Pumpkins being carved in West Vancouver.
It’s funny now when I look back at some of these cases with hindsight.
When I ran this one in September 2017 in a continuation of trying to keep people updated of the current conditions I was labeled as “desperate”.
Well over 14 months later and many losses on the books these guys are still trying to exit the market without taking the big hit.
By now it has probably dawned on them that they won’t escape unscathed as the new listing price is the same as the February 2016 purchase price of 2.93
Up in this price bracket, the expenses alone can wipe a grin off of people’s faces and while it won’t happen to to these guys West Vancouver is quickly becoming the land of million dollar losses.
The details…
1165 MATHERS AVE WEST VANCOUVER
Paid 2.93 February 2016
Originally asking 3.76
Now asking 2.93
They will also know that by lowering the price under 3 million will increase their chances of a sale as there is a glut of people,some even their neighbors, that need to offload their speculation attempt at a higher price.
Another neighbour has taken another route and taken 500k off multiple times and is listed at 1.79 to try and get someone to the table and get them up.
This will take years to play out.
Before we blink some of my cases will be 4 calendar years old.
Gotta go to the dollar store, running out of candles…
M44BC
1165 Mathers Avenue, West Vancouver
Mar 9:$3,760,000 2017
Sep 14: $3,280,000 2017
Change: – 480000
https://www.zolo.ca/west-vancouver-real-estate/1165-mathers-avenue
https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAyOUJaTA==
Great post.
Real Canada really only exists outside of the globalized, garbage-can cities.
sounds like they just need to pull the trigger.
I’m in the same boat but enjoy living in Toronto at the moment. maybe in 5 years.
One can obtain good licensed childcare for about $750 a month out East for the full day subject to age factors. In Toronto the average cost is roughly say $1,700 a month, and always obtain a licensed facility that is government inspected with qualified staff. Real Estate is complex, but eliminate Ontario because even the smaller town communities have popped in the past few years. Charlottetown is nice, but secluded, and home prices are high in the core area where the goods and services are located. Halifax is a mixed bag, and the Bedford area is nice, but prices have popped recently. Do your research, and you will find something that is more than suitable.
Garth,
its terrific that you’re enjoying the east coast. Winter?
I was there a day or two ago. Rain, plus six. Not so bad. – Garth
#153 Lobster Man on 11.26.18 at 10:06 pm
I still remember very well: “A Place to stay, and a Place to go……..ONTARIO…..”
That was more than 50 years ago, during EXPO 67: The Ontario Theme Song…..
///////////
Wasn’t it
‘A place to stand and a place to grow’
‘We call this land Ontario’
Move to Nova Scotia?
You can get an inexpensive house in Cape Breton, I know. For a new house, building materials are probably a bit more expensive. But a serviced building lot will be way cheaper and labour costs to build are cheaper.
If you have a job or internet business that allows you to work remotely from Nova Scotia this could work well.
I know they need doctors. Not teachers though, there are too few kids.
Unfortunately though, a higher marginal income tax rate than most provinces.
Cape Breton is cheap for a reason. There are better spots for the ambitious to choose. – Garth
Quit my job of 6 years at GM St. Kitts in 1990 (yes QUIT) – moved to Edmonton to be with fiancé and took a job paying ALOT less – spent three years there and moved to vancouver for 3 years – then moved to Victoria and got into recycling – started my own business in 2000 and have done alright – best thing I ever did leaving St. Catharines
RATM
We are also leaving Vancouver soon, rent is still reasonable and waiting on apprenticeships to be done. So many great places to live , barely getting by is not a long term goal yet most of my friends are in epic debt and keep reaching for the Vancouver dream. All on credit.
#178 Linda on 11.27.18 at 12:18 am
Best wishes to Anna & her family during this difficult time.
I have to say, I’m rather bewildered by what the GM workers hope to achieve by walking off the job.
///////////////
A good piss up?
This is just a rumour but I heard Jerry Diaz is heading down to Mexico to start a union for the Mexican Auto workers because he think’s it is grossly unfair that they are only making $4 per hour.
#theytookourjobs
Captain, Permission to come aboard your tugboat? That is so cool!
The closure of Oshawa is a done deal. It is not nice but not totally unexpected.
OK so now we want to slap tariffs on GM cars produced in Mexico. So let’s think about this. Today it is Mexico because GM is building cars there or at least some.
The big question is why?
Well DIAS simply has to wonder what the trade deal with South Korea did to the price of small cars in Canada for example. They went down… remember that so KIA and Hyundai….where do they stand now with DIAS. Should we put up Tariffs there as well. But wait,,,,,that would be protectionist? and only TRUMP is protectionist, right? Suddenly protectionism is good for Trudeau and Dias as well!
Now why Mexico. Labor costs are cheaper. Right?
The real reason Ford and GM is exiting autos is because they both cannot build a decent car that can compete with the foreign cars. The margins are too low.
If no one has noticed, the foreign car companies have upped their game in building good small cars. Even Toyota was caught somewhat flat footed against the South Korean makers a little while back. They did not expect them to be as good as they were. It was a wake up call and it appears that they have responded.
It is not that GM and Ford don’t know how to make a small car as good as the competition, it is that they are unable to do so at the margins they require. Plain and simple. So they simply gave up.
Market Competition is brutal it is literally a non friendly war. If you’ve seen and tried what Toyota’s new offerings are in the new RAV4 and Camry, it is no wonder GM and Ford backed out. They know the competition is out of their league now. Even for Toyota it is survival of the fittest and they know what they need to do. Their union knows it too.
Today it is small cars. Tomorrow it will the crossover SUVs.
Only the low cost of oil is keeping the domestic companies going…their profit is from trucks and SUVs.
The solution was laid bare in 2009, we simply kicked the can down the road. A complete overhaul of GM was required in 2009, we should have let it dissipate. Not a bailout….now the reality is starting to come out. We should have let them go down. Another company would formed and no longer have any legacy costs and by now would be operating in a strong position. Instead we will have 3000 families suffer a crisis because we kicked the can down the road ten years ago. It was politically expedient. Now they pay the price.
Remember the words DEBT and DEFICIT, it will haunt us soon.
So for the Grey Cup party I picked up a case of Sleemen`s Brown Honey Lager,, didn`t realize but when you buy a case you get a pair of dress socks ..When I got home I opened up the case and they look exactly like T2 `s socks that I have seen posted on this blog,, you know the picture with Mr.Socks with the checkered socks .. I am thinking Justin has good taste in beer..
`
“…a seaside town of two thousand souls.”
Garth, from your IG I’m guessing here…
https://www.novascotia.com/about-nova-scotia/regions/south-shore/mahone-bay
Help an ignorant person out would ya?
What does 4 bills mean?
$400K?
$40K?
$400?
I assume $400K, but I’m really not sure.
Do tell.
Does your tugboat look like one of these refurbished gems?
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiAjIK11fXeAhX5IDQIHYDACyUQFjAHegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fstock-photo-union-jack-wooden-tugboat-built-in1941-going-up-the-fraser-river-25763415.html&usg=AOvVaw2UQ-7LX8wTDRZEEsynqvuH
Ironic, I was talking to Barry LaValley last night and mentioned you and he said you used to do a lot of speaking, but wasn’t sure where you went so i let him know.
Never heard of him. – Garth
#27 Penny Henny – Diaz has no clue, and won’t be telling the Mexicans anything. In fact, he spent time in DC discussing the trade agreement with AMLO’s shadow negotiators telling the others what to do, and was no secret to all except we the citizens. The auto workers receive about $7.00 to $8.00 USD per hour that includes all benefits factored in, but robots make most of the cars. The Official Minimum Wage in Mexico is about $4.75 USD per 8 hour day; not by the hour, so go figure.
Global Real Estate Slowdown HAS BEGUN From the U.S. to Canada to Australia to the UK!
http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/global-real-estate-slowdown-has-begun-from-the-u-s-to-canada-to-australia-to-the-uk/
I’ve been across the country too, even to Lunenburg a couple of times — there are plenty of gems like it.… If you have money in the bank and can bring in enough work to keep a decent standard of living. Cheaper than the big ugly cities, for sure, but also harder to line up if you work in a competitive industry.
That said, the “family” argument is a very strong one, especially when you have young kids and family can offset (or replace) the cost of daycare. Not to mention if you have the golden handcuffs of a DB pension plan or a cushy public-sector job. Those things aren’t so easy to leave.
Inspired as it may be to escape the rat race for the slower and prettier parts of Canada, that equation unfortunately doesn’t add up for everyone. It’s not always just as easy as “just move”.
How much money do you have in the bank to play with, Garth? How many young kids (or ageing parents) relying on your care? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
Always a reason to do nothing, isn’t there? – Garth
Easy way to handle this, slap 25% tariffs on all imported electric GM vehicles.
Jerry Dias is 100% correct on this one. GM, Ford, FCA, Toyota etc….. are all just running out the clock with their past investments with all the assembly auto plants here. I predict that with each upcoming collective agreement negotiation more plant closures will be announced. It will take about another decade so that by around 2030 ALL vehicle assembly plants and related parts plants will be closed in Canada. Canada will still be a good country to live in until it’s not. Capital flight, closures, shut-downs, decay and decline etc…..happens slowly at first then…….all of a sudden!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jerry-dias-trudeau-gm-ottawa-1.4922392
Tug boat?? Tug Boat!!!
Wow– you are my hero
Nordic Tug? Ranger Tug? or a real wood tug with old tires and a diesel stove???
Tugboat! Cool!
“Haven’t been out of the ghetto much lately, have you? – Garth”
Sure, it’s easy to pull out when you’re established, made yourself “known” and pulled in some big gains. Not sure most younger, non-established people will get the necessary opportunities out there though.
Inspiring.
Don’t settle, be foolish.
Best move was knowing enough at 27 to want to “live to work” or “work to live”.
I choose the later, moved out of T.O. to small town Ontario on the border and have enjoyed living a life of taking advantage of what both sides of the border had to offer, enjoy sunsets daily, 2 minutes from the water, etc.
Yes my friends who stayed in Toronto are now uber rich as housing went through the roof but at what price? – being strapped to a house and work for 25 years while I enjoyed many trips abroad, being home while my daughter grew up and LIFE in general….
Get out soon and all the best!
Was reading bedtime stories to my son and he just asked what’s that little boat beside the big boat?
He’s into trains now but I’m sure he’ll love tugboats too.
I have called you the Unsinkable Garth many times for your resolute and stalwart writing even in the face of mainstream disagreement.
Who knew the “Unsinkable” was for real?
Pretty soon I expect you to work into your Blog:
I’s the b’y that builds the boat
And I’s the b’y that sails her
And yes, I know your wife is not named Lizer (nor the dog).
But you’re a Maritimer now, even though that was Newfie song, but close enough for Gov’t work and after all, you did work for the Gov’t.
Great advice, as usual.
Especially about small town living. If you are done with youthful partying and seek tranquility, it’s the way to go.
#36
“Always a reason to do nothing, isn’t there? – Garth”
This comment made me pause for a second and is actually very motivating! Felt like a fire just lit up in me. Thank you!
#36 “Always a reason to do nothing…?”
Don’t you think that is a tad insensitive Garth coming from your situation?
No children, a nice chunk of cash (well deserved of course), no elderly parents (?) makes the freedom to move a heck of a lot easier that those with family ties.
I had an aunt once who was childless who enjoyed telling the rest of the family how to raise their kids…she got as much respect as the men of the Catholic church who take an oath of celibacy giving advice on marriage and child rearing….
Choices. You made them. Live with them. Don’t blame me for trying to pry open your eyes. – Garth
You could have bought this shack in NS, it sold for $440 last month!
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/09/13/windsor-n-s-mansion-is-selling-for-less-than-some-big-city-condos_a_23526185/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIwzRkjn86w
Pink Pumpkins being carved in Vancouver.
Just like the previous house this one has come back on the market with the same number as purchase price.
The details…
4080 w 35th ave ,Vancouver
Paid 2.58 January 2016
Originally asking 2.96
Now asking 2.58
Assessment 2.84
Now to be free and clear after expenses they need to be closer to the 3 number.
Pretty hard to see that happening.
As I have been showing you,as recently as yesterday,these types of structures have been going at,or below the 2 mill mark.
Every neighborhood has a slight advantage or disadvantage so we’ll see how this one plays out over time but one of the ones I showed last night was on a better block in a similar area and they could only muster 1.9 and they were originally asking over 3.
There seems to be a lot of wishing and hoping going on, and I don’t blame them because these guys need to get a certain number, where the previous guys didn’t.
This is what part of all this is about.
Not only do I track the recent sale prices,but I believe it is more valuable to see if the ones that need to get a certain number can achieve their goal.
Some do, some don’t.
Going forward.
Some will ,some won’t…
M44BC
https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/4080-west-35th-avenue
Well buying a home in the GTA like a nice detached will be hard to come by now. One must be patient out East, and what looks great may not be a bargain by looking at things carefully. A couple of high end homes went quickly at $309,900 that in Toronto would fetch over $2 million on large lots. I see a cheaper one at $245,000 on a 11,740 SF lot built in 1982 with a bit over 2,000 SF including the one car garage on a double paved lot. Its a Cap Cod with 4 bedrooms, a wood burning fireplace, beautiful wood flooring, an eat in kitchen, dining room, gorgeous landscaping, 3 minute walk to the transit bus, good neighbourhood, vinyl siding, 100k plus average family income, and a clean full basement for future development. Nothing to do, but needs a $3,000 adjustment. This home in Toronto would sell for over $1 million or a lot more. Its located in a smaller town of greater than 8,000 population that have everything.
#48 Garth
I am very happily living with my choices…We all make choices…you missed the point.
To judge and disparage others for their choices based on your own unique P.O.V. and life is ignorant. Your better than that.
No one is “blaming you” per se, just it’s rude not taking into account others situations, especially lifestyle choices that you have absolutely NO IDEA of because you haven’t “been there” and as a result have limited or no clue whatsoever of the choices others have to make, for example those with children or elderly family members which I assume you do not have.
Stop snivelling. – Garth
“Be cool and you might even get to ride on my tugboat.”
————————————
Captain?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrrmNpGYH28
I agree with you about moving to a more affordable city, we did just that last year. Don’t underestimate the power of family ties – moving away from older parents, moving kids away from uncles, aunts, and grandparents is not an easy thing to do. For a lot of people having family close by trumps economic security.
If you are single, or not close with / to family, by all means get moving. But it’s a different challenge for parents with kids and family and friends near by.
Still quite a bit of contrast between Toronto and other parts of Ontario when it comes to house prices.
In Midhurst, Ontario (5 min drive from Barrie), a million five hundred thousand (1.5 mil) gets you this:
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20017762/3-3-bedroom-single-family-house-55-glenhuron-dr-springwater-midhurst
In Toronto, 1.5 million gets you this:
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20119019/3-1-bedroom-single-family-house-274-ossington-ave-toronto-trinity-bellwoods
In Lunenberg, Nova Scotia, 1.5 million gets you three of these:
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/19792375/3-0-bedroom-single-family-house-1580-second-peninsula-road-second-peninsula-second-peninsula
Location, location, location
Gartho;
Perhaps you would like to “steam ” up the Great Lakes to Midland Ont. for the annual TUGfest next August. Its quite the event. (salty dogs welcomed)
https://www.midland.ca/Shared%20Documents/Events%20page/Tugfest%202018%20v3.jpg
All craft must be polished before arrival, you dont want to be seen rubbing your Tug.
@#49 Halifax Fish Fry on 11.27.18 at 6:51 pm
You could have bought this shack in NS, it sold for $440 last month!
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/09/13/windsor-n-s-mansion-is-selling-for-less-than-some-big-city-condos_a_23526185/
________________________________
lovely place. If I could find decent employment in NS i’d consider moving my fam out there. lousy weather and all.
Better than TO. – Garth
For many of us, the good paying and or interesting gigs are in the larger cities. Sure, move to Kelowna if you want to schlep burgers and beers.
Grats to Joe and his spouse. That’s a brutal grind that they’ve been living
#38 Edith Weston on 11.27.18 at 6:15 pm
“Easy way to handle this, slap 25% tariffs on all imported electric GM vehicles.”
====================================
Right, makes a lot of sense.
The 25% tariffs will be passed on to the consumer. So, the poor guy who makes $14 an hour, will have to pay the tariffs, in order for the guy who makes $46 an hour to keep his job.
Life is indeed a lot better in a small place than the big smoke, but be smart.
First, anyone can be a “consultant”; all you need is clients. Not so easy when they all live in Toronto.
Second, boredom. If you’re used to lots of choices and plenty of stimulating friends (I’m not saying they don’t exist in a small place), you might need 3-5 years to get something that rivals your old life.
Having more time and money will ease the transition, just don’t expect it all at once.
#42 young & foolish on 11.27.18 at 6:29 pm
“Haven’t been out of the ghetto much lately, have you? – Garth”
Sure, it’s easy to pull out when you’re established, made yourself “known” and pulled in some big gains. Not sure most younger, non-established people will get the necessary opportunities out there though.
——————-
Do the math, you might be surprised. Almost no one makes over 80K in the hinterland, but a married couple can haul in 80-90k combined without too much trouble if you aren’t a snob about what you do for a living.
A decent house can be had for 250k if you don’t mind a 20-30 minute commute. That’s a 1200.00/mo mortgage payment. 2.9X income, probably less.
I know a guy, born and bred in Toronto. Moved out here into the Wild about 20 years ago for his new small town wife. He started his own business doing landscaping, commercial lawn care, plowing, etc… wife works too. You should see this guy’s house – BEAUTIFUL, with a huge shop and 4-5 acres. Hands on fellow, works to the bleeding edge of divorce, has done WAY better than he ever would have in the GTA by his own admission.
How far does your dollar go in Toronto?
When Ms IH and I bought our “Fixer-Upper”, it was 1.4X income.
Thank for the positive blog tonight – every once in a while, we need it.
TUGBOAT, very Cool
Follow your dreams, live the life you imagine. (Thoreau) It is possible.
I made the move from the Fraser Valley to Parksville on Vancouver Island eighteen years ago, divorced, on a secretary’s wages. Built a small home a half block from the ocean. Met a lovely man several years later. We recently purchased a boat. As my sister said “every time you go out you will learn something new”. How true. We feel that we live in paradise. It can be done. Set your goals, focus and watch how the universe unfolds.
Marriage and kids are the biggest liability…If you remain single, you will not lose sleep over a job loss. You can pack up and move within a day to any place where you can get a job. In fact you may not even need a high paying job because your cost of living will be low. You could enjoy your hobbies or travel the world and live a stress free life.
Garth, sure hope you didn’t name your ‘unsinkable’ tugboat the Titanic:)
Child care costs. I find it more than a little ironic. In ‘the good old days’ when women ‘didn’t work’ but stayed home & cared for the kids etc. the household tasks were perceived to have no monetary value. It was the woman’s role to raise the children, cook, clean & organize the entertaining. Men earned the income to pay for the lifestyle, plus were expected to cut the lawn. ‘Handy’ men were desired, because they could do essential house maintenance & maybe even fix the family vehicle.
My point is the fact women’s work was perceived to have no monetary value. So when I read or hear complaints about the cost of child care I smile, because obviously the work being done does have a value & quite a significant one at that. So why is it o.k. to pay others for child care but not to pay a parent to do the same thing? After all, not a few child care workers are parents too.
You mentioned BC a while back. So what small cities in BC can you recommend that are a bit more affordable than Van and good for raising children?
Moving to or running away from? Have done both several times. Big difference. The former is positive, full of hope and adventure, the latter is a stress filled downer full of uncertainty. Ask yourself which is it you are doing.
And remember this: Reality seldom matches the romantic ideal of imagination. But it can be a good ride, nevertheless. And, importantly, as Tom Wolfe said so long ago ” you can’t go home again”.
Life is a one way street regardless of whether you never change addresses or end up on the other side of the globe.
In an old CBC Farley Mowat interview a statement he made struck me. He noted how we go against nature by concentrating, while everything in nature disperses. How this behaviour will have consequences and significant risks. It was fascinating to hear his thoughts so many years ago.
Move to Cape Breton?
Cape Breton is cheap for a reason. There are better spots for the ambitious to choose. – Garth
********************************
Fine, but what about the non-ambitious?
#67 Chris on 11.27.18 at 8:00 pm
“Marriage and kids are the biggest liability…If you remain single, you will not lose sleep over a job loss. You can pack up and move within a day to any place where you can get a job. In fact you may not even need a high paying job because your cost of living will be low. You could enjoy your hobbies or travel the world and live a stress free life.”
====================================
LOL.. I wish this blog was around when I was 23…
#69
Affordable cities in BC, go to Vancouver Island. Only victoria and nanaimo are pricey. Rest is affordable
#22 Penny Henry,
You are right-on. I submitted a correction last night, #169. It must be my hearing/memory? Also, I couldn’t speak much English then!
Here is the link, once again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNmfL9lKuTc
LM
Where tug boats are superior, is in their far larger volume of space below the water line to pour so many more bags of commission loonies directly into.
I lived and breathed boats, I keep a paved road dividing me from the shore line at all times now.
Tugboat won’t keep you as broke as Toronto though.
@#72 Shawn Allen
“but what about the non-ambitious?”
+++++
Dont leave the Cape and say Hi to Butz when he’s home from Ottawa for Christmas
Stop snivelling. – Garth
+++++++
Lotsa “tough love” tonight Garth!
Keep it coming. We can take it.
#59 Timmy on 11.27.18 at 7:26 pm
For many of us, the good paying and or interesting gigs are in the larger cities. Sure, move to Kelowna if you want to schlep burgers and beers.
——————-
Also in the larger cities are 1 million dollar shacks 75% of the population can’t afford. Plenty of crap jobs there too, and basically the same household incomes as small 50k population towns have.
The Mrs. and I live in a village of about 500, we commute to cities of 15k and 50k, 12 and 20 minutes respectively. I have a decent job, and the wife does exactly what her two degrees prepared her to do. If we both worked full time (we don’t) our gross would be 138k, I guess that’s crap, but it’s still near double the gta median.
Maybe it’s just me, but I want a hell of a lot more out of life than an interesting gig. Don’t you?
Just don’t bring your Toronto culture out here with you, the way the Californians are fleeing their state and then ruining the ones they flee to.
Any woman out East with the right home upon an initial inspection can start her own unlicensed childcare center for up to 6 children. Lots of women are earning big money using technology from the home. There is one in the Muskoka area selling 12 products all over Canada, and has all stores in her area selling her products. She even constructed a store on her property, and her husband opened up an art gallery. A couple of women out East are cleaning up making high end hats shipped all over North America. Another couple run a business from their home selling a consulting service all over North America that moved from NYC. Another woman in Windsor, Ontario sells grocery products to ex patriots in the USA, and throughout the world with an array of goods befitting any supermarket. They have no problems with the USA because filed the necessary custom documents with homeland security and customs getting a full approval. Yes women can earn a good living just like the men.
I believe it of utmost importance that the slow creep of communism at all levels of government must be kept into the forefront.
Here we have two long standing restaurants shutting down over a made-up figure issues by the City: Property taxes. If these busy places – and I’ve been to both several times – cannot hold up then what can. The hollowing out of independent businesses into empty-scapes.
Taxes have become weaponized.
https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2018/11/one-torontos-fanciest-mexican-restaurants-closing/
“higher property taxes are to blame.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/taxed-out-toronto-1.4809759
“owner of the French restaurant Le Select, fears his beloved bistro may be in peril. “Our municipal tax has gone up in a way where the restaurant becomes unprofitable,” he says. “
Watch out for this weekends meeting between Xi and Trump on trade. If their is little positive discussion on Saturday then given the Chinese stock market drop China could very easily start to liquidate it’s USA treasuries to ramp up pressure. Then up goes interest rates at a much higher rate than expected.
#68 Linda on 11.27.18 at 8:02 pm
‘Handy’ men were desired, because they could do essential house maintenance & maybe even fix the family vehicle.
———-
…and I always wondered why I had to bat the Women off me every time I headed out to the shop.
#81 – childcare: why is this surprising to you – or why would you think we find this surprising? Have you been in a coma for a century?
#67 Chris on 11.27.18 at 8:00 pm
Marriage and kids are the biggest liability…If you remain single, you will not lose sleep over a job loss. You can pack up and move within a day to any place where you can get a job. In fact you may not even need a high paying job because your cost of living will be low. You could enjoy your hobbies or travel the world and live a stress free life.
—————
Depends on if both spouses work, and if your lifestyle allowed you to pay the bills with plenty left over.
If I lost my job, no big whoop. Everything’s paid for and Ms. IH would still be bringing home the bacon.
In fact, I’d probably drag my feet finding another job, and do some of that fun stuff you were talking about!
Why the surprise about a tugboat? Garth owns a bank.
^ My point is, as those places are forced out of business hundreds of people will lose their jobs, income and independence. Forced into dependence on government handouts: megre unemployment insurance then maybe welfare.
All for the want of a made-up number that the city may change at any time. Property taxes. That sound, the boot stomping onto you.
Moving out of major centers will also increase your survival rate by at least 75% in the coming global catastrophe.
But in the bigger cities, there will be horrific savagery for those who remain.
Clock is ticking…..
> occupied by tenants you don’t control and probably hate you
because everyone hates leeches :-)
don’t become a landlord, especially an absentee one looking for “passive” (read: money for nothing from some poor sod) income.
74 Dave – Victoria is certainly expensive, and while up island is less, there is not much difference between Nanaimo, Duncan and Courtenay. Parksville tops the list for the rest of the island.
Campbell River is a bit cheaper and Port Alberni cheaper still.
http://www.vireb.com/assets/uploads/10oct_18_vireb_stats_package_64515.pdf
It’s weird to see Toronto, Vancouver as the places to escape for seeking a better life.
Other places got that much better or TO and Van got that much worst?
How has this happened?
RE: #88 TurnerNation
^ My point is, as those places are forced out of business hundreds of people will lose their jobs, income and independence. Forced into dependence on government handouts: megre unemployment insurance then maybe welfare.
All for the want of a made-up number that the city may change at any time. Property taxes. That sound, the boot stomping onto you.
—————————————————————————————————
So, Trudo’s plan is working well.
Do it Joe. We were in a very similar situation, minus the equity. Your life will improve, I’m almost certain of that. Some considerations: jobs in small towns are harder to come by as a rule, and the good ones will tend to go to the well connected locals. The more free time you have to volunteer, pursue hobbies etc, the faster you will integrate. Having kids helps a lot with this.
Or, go the entrepreneur route. Either way, you will have a significant cushion, and way more free time – two things that allow you to take more risk. And risks usually lead to adventures, and what else is life about than packing as many adventures in as possible? Do it. If it doesn’t work (unlikely), whatever, you’ll still rich and you saw more of the country.
One way to do this is to start a company in the city where the work is and then move to where you want to live and do the actual work there. You can visit the city with the work as necessary. It worked for me across thousands of miles and an international border.
#83 Drill Baby Drill on 11.27.18 at 8:58 pm
Watch out for this weekends meeting between Xi and Trump on trade. If their is little positive discussion on Saturday then given the Chinese stock market drop China could very easily start to liquidate it’s USA treasuries to ramp up pressure. Then up goes interest rates at a much higher rate than expected.
——————
They can’t do that. China has a pile of US T-Bills only because they get paid in US dollars for goods they export.
Chinese exporters need RMB to do business in China, so the PBOC buys the USD in exchange for RMB and invests them in Tbills to earn low risk interest. All this cash goes right back to the USA as a loan (a lot of it to be spent again on Chinese goods). China can not allow trillions of USD to enter the international markets as this would depreciate the dollar against the RMB. This in turn would cause China’s competitiveness to drop, this meaning their exports would drop as Chinese exports become more expensive in the USA.
China is all about keeping their currency low against the USA, so they keep USD’s as scarce as possible. Dumping all that cash would be shooting themselves in the foot.
Recent sale report.
This house confirms the new trend that to be competitive at the bottom of the marketing the Westside you now have to be sub two million.
The details…
2185 Collingwood st,Vancouver.
Originally asking 2.29
Just sold for 1.85
Assessment 2.25
So this is the type of sale I was just alluding to that must be making the people that need to get over 2.5 for the same type of properties nervous.
These Westside houses going for well under 2 million are nowhere near the Eastside and have largely been around the Dunbar corridor.
Realtors can throw any propaganda they want at this market,it won’t work.
Everything but the Kitsilano sink…
M44BC
Price Event
Nov 23, 2018 $1,999,000 Price Reduced
Oct 15, 2018 $2,148,000 Price Reduced
Sep 28, 2018 $2,298,000
https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/2185-collingwood-street
Ambitious Cape Bretoners:
#77 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 8:39 pm responded:
@#72 Shawn Allen
“but what about the non-ambitious?”
+++++
Dont leave the Cape and say Hi to Butz when he’s home from Ottawa for Christmas
********************
Took me a minute, yes you mean Gerald Butts senior advisor to the Prime Minister. He was born in Glace Bay.
Well, there you go, having people be ambitious does not always turn out as well as you would like.
Well, they can’t all turn out like Flora MacDonald.
@KLNR
#182 NoName on 11.27.18 at 12:48 am
#159 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 10:15 pm
@#138 PBrasseur on 11.26.18 at 9:33 pm
Expect bad news from Chrysler sooner or later too, Canada auto sector is a dead man walking anyway!
But the worst news is that there is absolutely nothing to replace it.
The next decade should be entertaining to say the least.
______________________________
for sure, high paying manufacturing jobs are history but theres tons of opportunity out there in other sectors if you want it. The next decade will be exciting to say the least.
—
For my 20+ yrs in Canada i always worked for manufacturing one way or other. Those tons of opportunities that you know I would like you to share it with me, i need at least another 20 yrs of working. I AM ALL EARS.
—-
Hey KLNR since you wrote that yesterday i am in constant state of tought, trying to figure it what those oportunities are, if you dont come up with an answer soon my mind is going to go in overlord, and all that thinking it will bent my mind in to pretzel. C’mon plz help fellow working stiff, if you do yoll feel better about yourself. Trust me. But iam slowly starting to think that you were just showing off, that actually dont know.
And on a side note that tubgoat was mentiond, spongebob creator died today, rip Stephen Hillenburg.
I watched so many of those kartoons with kids, funnies thing about them there are alway one or two jokes for moms and dads. But bad part is that scene is changing every 12 or 16 sec, cant remember, basicly its shorting out kids attention span… but kids are malleable (one other than mine) so they should be ok, its an adult that i worry about.
definitely press play, fuuny!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-c5RU6Hn4M
My piece of advice to anyone living in GTA / GVA is to move to a nice town or city that doesn’t appear on any of the “best cities to live in” articles they publish every year.
Move somewhere that causes most people to raise their eyebrows and scowl when you tell them where. Those are the actual good places to live a life. Your goal should be to live a good life, not impress people.
RE: “#82 TurnerNation on 11.27.18 at 8:54 pm”
The idea with high property taxes on businesses is to push the business out, and force the property owner to sell. Then in come the condos, everyone on the inside makes a ton of money, another historic street is bulldozed, and the wealthy get wealthier, while our city is destroyed.
It is a cash grab, but not for the taxes. The taxes are just the way of forcing businesses to close and forcing reluctant property owners to sell to condo corporations.
The condo corporations only exist, to promote, build and dump condo buildings, for millions of dollars in easy profits.
Someone is getting really wealthy off of this. And there is a reason why they are doing this. Our governments are way too close to the developers.
Funny that tugboats should come up as the Jaguar spotted an inspiring Ranger Tugboat while awaiting a SeaAir floatplane flight from Nanaimo to the Burrard inlet last year. Love at first sight. Adorable. Sturdiness and a lack of pretension are highly valued qualities among the discerning. Not just with boats. Enough said.
We all are sentimental and nostalgic about the places where we grow up. We experience a thrill at the very moment the earths crust warms up in the area of the country where we played our first scrub baseball game or other pursuit. Those from Vancouver recoil at the idea of snow, so too do southern Albertans after only two or three days of skies where the sun does not appear. The BC interior has a lot to brag about during the summer months, (at least when the forests are not burning), but careful observers know the winters months are quite different due to the inversions, strategic burns, and heavier snowfall that what is advertised in the marketing of the area. The Jag lived in the GTA and loved the humidity, but the winters were too chill with the lakes nearby. Montreal is famous for its snow which I am told is not removed on any timely basis. People trapped in their homes, etc. I guess the good bagels and cultural aspects are a comfort. One only has to turn on the national news to review the storms of the Atlantic provinces. Mercy. I suppose at the end of the day it isn’t an ‘ouch’ contest. We can all live where we love it best. Or not. There is certainly enough real estate to go around. But I would agree that given the technological advancements and issues that will wash up on the beach of larger cities there is a clear incentive to consider other options. The exodus from various ‘Gotham’ aspects of cities is upon us. Various reasons, and it will only become obvious what drove the exodus once it is too late to halt the departure of the tax base.
Except for those with an over developed sense of intuition and common sense. The Hudson Bay Company used to hire them as “scouts’. Nice work if you can get it today.
Garth,
Is Annie the captain on your tugboat?
Think about Calgary. Housing has gotten ALOT cheaper and there are good paying jobs if you have the right skills(even in this western depression), and there are the mountains and lower taxes.
Do it, Joe! You don’t even have to go rural. Guelph or K/W are perfectly reasonable and on the Go line. We cut out one commute, cut our childcare expenses in half, and send our disabled child to an amazing public school with actual real spec ed funding. That, and everybody has their own bedroom with a door on it. What a luxury.
There are two caveats about making the great escape to live in some small town that is affordable. Hard to do this if you are trained for big city jobs (surgeons, medical, lcorporate lawyers, engineers, movie business, etc…etc..). If you move to the south okanagan from YVR it is tricky finding a good paying job; many young people piece together different partime gigs. If you have lots of resources from having owned in the big city for awhile, indeed you can make the escape, and then you don’t care that your salary takes a hit. Best professions for transportability from bigh to small cities are teachers, police and fire officers, nurses, trades, etc…
#92 akashic record
It’s weird to see Toronto, Vancouver as the places to escape for seeking a better life.
——————————–
Vancouver is a city one must learn how to live in. It takes most of a lifetime to develop the necessary suspension of disbelief and tolerance for a plethora of numb nut sensibilities. Many cannot function in such rarefied air. For those, there is, say, Lloydminster. That’s no knock against Lloydminster. Fine little town. I’d live there if I could, but I’m likewise, poorly adapted for such a place.
The Escape.
I’m trying to get a good tan at the risk of skin cancer so the globalists and the young ones they brainwashed won’t see my attachment to the mythical white man patriarchy.
Let’s face it if you are a successful son of refugees from ww2 who allows his kids to marry lesbians, did not work out, black chics and old ones. They are working out.
It doesn’t matter, you are on the shit list no matter how good you are.
The youngest is going to get engaged on Dec 1st to a lovely black girl who I and the wife adore. If you read this Ang. We love you. Call me daddy.
But the identity politics that scheming creepy power hungry UN assholes have brought to our educational industrial complex the sport of demonizing white people is just a staged rehearsal to go after anyone that has taken a risk and drives a nice car.
That’s why I drive my shit car at the fashion mall parking car wash. Where Lambos and exotics take center stage.
These deranged entitled safe space teacher taught losers are watching.
I mean it’s brand new Black Ford Escape, heaven help me if I bought a white one.
We all got to get our shit together fast before it’s too late.
Love each other and our opinions, they can change over time. Do not restrict free speech.
Hate leads to high blood pressure and certain death.
I ain’t going to die soon. I don’t hate back.
Dr. Smoking Man
Ph.D. Herdonomics.
#74 Dave on 11.27.18 at 8:21 pm
#69
Affordable cities in BC, go to Vancouver Island. Only victoria and nanaimo are pricey. Rest is affordable
*************
Pump the Brakes! Uh NO! The rest is not affordable based on local incomes. But things are slowing.
I’ve been hearing a lot of belly aching about GM Oshawa. In 1987 it employed 23,000 today its 2,500. As unbelievable as it may seem, that’s about two and a half days of Ottawa’s immigration quota for 2018. It’s a drop in the bucket.
Zoolander (sorry, that guy in the movie was actually smarter) is buying the press, turning it into liberal propaganda machine.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-27/canadas-treacherous-faustian-bargain
The Canadian government’s recent announcement that it will be providing more than CDN $600 million (USD $455 million) over the next five years to bail out the country’s financially strapped media outlets — as part of the fall fiscal update about the federal budget ahead of the 2019 federal election.
We used to be called a democracy and a developed country, now rapidly becoming Turdiland, in a way like Disneyland, with a lot of puppets but no fun.
Re: #92 akashic record on 11.27.18 at 9:49 pm
It’s weird to see Toronto, Vancouver as the places to escape for seeking a better life.
Other places got that much better or TO and Van got that much worst?
How has this happened?
++++++++++++++++
Well Vancouver was over-run with gangs with loads of drug cash that the BC Liberal gov’t conveniently looked past. Supposedly $5 billion for the Chinese Triads alone since 2010 and over a billion in 2016 alone. That sure buys a lot of houses. And there are a lot of gangs here.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4149818/vancouver-cautionary-tale-money-laundering-drugs/
It all started with Greedo Campbell when he said at the time the Bc Liberals were elected in 2001 that, “You will not recognize Vancouver when I am finished with it”. So 16 years later, nobody can afford to live here.
Campbell promptly sold our BC Rail to his CN Rail friend and top 5 donor for a fire sale price AFTER bleeding it dry and promising he wouldn’t sell it. A liitle history lesson how it all started: https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/12/27/BCRail/
You only have to look as far as the BC Liberals for our woes.
He and Christy Clark sold us out, along with the Federal gov’t allowing gang drug trafficking/buying citizenship to permeate our society.
Trudeau was asked today what he was going to do about the fentanyl crisis, and you know what he said, and I’m paraphrasing; “We will do whatever we can to help those addicted to drugs to get off drugs”. The funny thing is he never said ANYTHING about fighting the dealers/gangs to stop this crud from getting into the country in the first place.
So our gov’t is part of the problem!
Pure evil….
If we were to find a fool to pay the theoretical going price and factor in the 3% commissions/fees, pay off the balance of the mortgage, subtract the decade of property-related costs above, we’d make out with about 6.2% annualized returns since 2008. Not terrible that our living arrangement also nearly matched what a long-term market average may provide, however, since 2008 the S&P500 returned about 13.9% annualized.
——————————–
But Joe, you wouldn’t have been able to use LEVERAGE to pile into the S&P in 2008. The banks aren’t going to loan you a mortgage-worth of money to invest in a diversified portfolio.
So yes, you might have earned a greater return in the S&P but it would have been on a much much smaller base. You’d be far behind in absolute returns when compared to your house appreciation minus costs.
Now does everyone see why people are conditioned to think housing is an investment? In what other investment will the banks throw oodles of free money your way?
#71 Sebee on 11.27.18 at 8:16 pm “… Farley Mowat … noted how we go against nature by concentrating, while everything in nature disperses …
That observation doesn’t seem to go with his observations in “Never Cry Wolf”.
How did he explain away packs, flocks, herds, beehives, anthills and viper pits?
Tugboat = very cool!
Great post and story – I think this family should get out of town and they’re fortunate to have the means to do it. They can always move back to the TO area if they were disillusioned by smaller town life. I just feel badly for the folks who have bought houses in recent years and may be equally unhappy with the rat race but have fewer choices due to their finances…
I’m in a similar situation, but where to move? Any blog dogs have suggestions of places within 2 hours of Toronto that offer a good life and balance for young families???
Toronto real estate rife with criminal proceeds, suggestions of corrupt agents? Say it ain’t so Red Star!! I thought it was all Mom’s and Moisters? Please Guru Master Garth, set this straight.
https://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/2018/11/28/why-toronto-real-estate-is-vulnerable-to-money-laundering.html
I think one of the advantages of living in a small place outside of a big city like Toronto, is to be able to see the stars at night. Which in Toronto you can’t.
Moneysense Mag puts out a top ten list every year. Start there for desirable places to live in Canada.
I understand the purpose of your post today, Garth, but frankly your response is didactic and disappointing. As “common sense” says, you’re better than that. Or at least I’d like to continue to think so.
My point was just a rebuttal to your (entirely sensible) advice to Joe that, indeed, there are liveable and loveable places much better than the urban centres. But inspired or not, the timing doesn’t always line up as one might like. Why did it take you so long to move, for example?
Maybe I should have mentioned that I’m writing this from Europe, where I travel annually with my (yes, young) kids and family to help them experience the world — thanks to no debt and a growing portfolio (and a decent income in Toronto). Hardly “doing nothing”.
Be better than cheap internet snipes, man.
I said there’s always a reason to do nothing. And people always find it. Regarding my decisions, be careful what you assume. I find that is a failing of the young and myopic. – Garth
My family travelled a lot when I was ages 4-10, taught me all kinds of different ways to live a life. For a while I spoke Portuguese due to living in Brazil, which taught me flexibility in language too.
Lived around the world as singleton, came back to Toronto to roost every few years, eventually with a mate :-)
Saw an opportunity in another city and off we went. Created a brand new life, great friends and surfed a real estate wave into an entirely different financial class.
Anyway – IMHO, travel is good for kids (resiliency, tolerance and adaptation) good for lifting the scales off the older eyes (head up, create a life you want vs struggling inside the status quo) and you may end up with more time for family, volunteering, hobbies, health.
Generally it’s better to be the captain of the ship than in the nicest berth in steerage ;-)
Hey Smoking Man – I heard about your health worries as you suntan out there in Socal.
My naturopath has some good advice for you.
Eat a lot of salted romaine lettuce. (it’s everywhere there)
And keep lying in the sun (when the forest fire smoke clears.) All that talk about skin cancer from sun exposure is just fake news.
A toast to your health!
Considered small town BC island, but hardly anybody makes a decent living, so you have to barter for everything. Also, all the pet owners refer to themselves as the mommy or daddy…….creeps me out.
And as the year winds down,
British Prime Minister Elizabeth May(be) attempts to sell her increasingly unpopular Brexit plan to a sceptical Parliament.
Poor Ms May. Only she seems to still believe her own Press releases. Good Luck Liz, with 120 days to go til “B-Hour” the stars are aligned against ye.
Off to the G20 Summit we jet to see World Leaders comically try to avoid each other while attempting to put a brave face on another expensive, dysfunctional gathering.
Who will snub whom?
Trump and Putin? Trump and Xi ? Trudeau and Calvin Klein?
Or will they all scurry quickly away from the extended handshake of that Arabian Black Knight MbS? Pariah of the month. Potential successor to the Saudi Oil Kingdom. Alleged slayer of journalists(Even if Trump secretly wishes he had the same power over the “Fake News” press.)
Back to reality we fly while avoiding Crimean air space.
As Russia sends more surface to air missles to “their” annexed Crimea in the ramp up in the slow motion war with the Ukraine. ( Just after Putins latest poll numbers indicate he’s increasingly unpopular at home for increasing the retirement age to…. 65…..nothing like a small external war to get everyones mind off their domestic troubles.)
Iran muses about cranking up its military and nuke production while ignoring the 10’s of thousands of starving children in Yemen trapped in the proxy war it has helped initiate on its hated enemy Saudi Arabia’s border. (We’ll leave that starving mob to the Americans and Brits to sort out.)
But, oddly enough, the bright light is North Korea.
Offering to show inspectors its nuclear program ( after rumours of its literal collapse when half a mountain crushed its secret underground blasting facility next to China’s border).
Or have the world sanctions reduced Fearless leader Kim Il Jongs options in dark blue pants with expandable waistlines? Either way…..peace talks in the longest running dog war of the past century….hurray!
Did I miss anything Trumpocalypse?
If anyone wants to make that jump, go for it.
Given Joe’s situation and desire, it’s a no brainer.
Unfortunately, I do not find the small town appealing. Maybe someday when I am old but right now, there is no desire. Went out east this summer and was scoping to see if I could myself living there, unfortunately I could not; even with all the beautiful scenery, nature and people.
Next time you leave your puddle you might find there are small cities, large towns and a myriad of communities in which to live. Yes, more than bucolic trees. (The insularity of this blog is stunning some days.) – Garth
Lets try again. My first post was either silently deleted or didnt go through.
Regarding yesterday’s post, labour represents 10% of a car’s cost.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-actually-cost-manufacturers-to-make-a-car
As to healthcare in the US, why is it the only western nation where 10s of thousands still go bankrupt from medical costs?
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/11/09/emergency-room-medical-insurance-surprise-bills-newton-wellesley-hospital-zach-proman-james-welch
You posted a story abut a patient being billed $593, then extrapolated that ’10s of thousands still go bankrupt from medical costs.’ That’s why the comment was deleted. Try harder next time. – Garth
Fair enough, Garth. I’ll refrain from making assumptions about you, and ask that you do the same of me. Thanks for hearing me out.
Re – Oshawa closing
Hate to beat the drum but there is a very good reason for GM’s exit…
It’s called competitiveness
Businesses are climbing over themselves to leave Canada.
It simply is a 3rd world country pretending to be a 1st world one.
Until you vote in a party or at least get leaders who see the power of ideas and tiny government and that sees the private sector and great ideas as the driver of the economy instead of treating them like vermin you will see the brain drain, the exit of large and small companies, the explosion of government costs….
You either change or you die. Canada is in the flopping stage now.
Most Canadians spend more time crying about social justice than creating wealth and driving the economy.
Jobs change worlds – not socialism and handouts and tyranny of minorities.
Canada was built on hard work, ideas, and drive. It is not anything like that anymore.
You cry about poverty, you cry for services and handouts, you vilify wealth.
Work saves people because it gives them hope, confidence and opportunity.
Sorry but Canada and its people have lost their mojo….
Garth with all due respect, I didn’t even find downtown Halifax appealing enough to move there.
Having said all that, if I needed to make it work, I would.
Its hard to see the world since we all live in a distortion field.
Left or Right
Just look at the companies and people leaving Canada. There is no distortion field there.
This is real.
Ask yourself why are companies and people leaving Canada?
@#125 Ottawa Mike
A good friend of mine just received the hospital Bills for his daughters 4 hour experience in a San Francisco emergency room.
( She had an allergic reaction to something they still have figure out what)
$2400 US for the ambulance ride.
$8745 US for the Emerg room tests, doctors, needles, , etc.
She’s 19 and was down there by herself.
No travel insurance.
He’s dealing with the fallout now…..
They call it the ‘dutch disease’ but we are adding a flavour that it is based here not on wealth but on extreme credit.
Everything becomes very expensive due to the country becoming wealthy (in the case of Holland recently; Span at the time when silver and gold was exported from America to Europe); in our case in a relatively not-so-well-off country it is based on cheap credit,
people spend money they don’t have, inflation soars and in the today’s open world production, manufacturing, even services move to cheaper places.
So we are left with predominantly consumption, extreme cost of living, while losing jobs and economy literally melts down except some services, with huge pile of debt outstanding to pay.
Note the dire situation of the auto workers in Oshawa, who won’t be able to find alternative 70 k per year jobs, despite the ‘booming economy’ in GTA (apparently justifying 1.5 mil houses in the suburbs and 800 k condos).
These people should in theory be happy to lose/fire the imperialist US employer and explore the ‘rich, innovative economy’ that Canada features.
It mush be innovative as yahoo.ca features weekly if not daily articles (probably paid by government subsidies) on the feel good topic.
Just a note that house in the range of 800 k in that wasteland/Oshawa is an absolute idiocy.
The sad reality/coning to a neighborhood near you:
No jobs on the horizon:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/28/general-motors-oshawa-plant-closure-employees-respond
#130 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.18 at 9:34 am
@#125 Ottawa Mike
A good friend of mine just received the hospital Bills for his daughters 4 hour experience in a San Francisco emergency room.
( She had an allergic reaction to something they still have figure out what)
$2400 US for the ambulance ride.
$8745 US for the Emerg room tests, doctors, needles, , etc.
She’s 19 and was down there by herself.
No travel insurance.
He’s dealing with the fallout now…..
=============================
And how much will be your bill if you are foreigner and that happened to you while in Canada with no insurance?
Friend of mine’s mother in law: 110 k for emergency heart surgery/she died.
I read somewhere a few years ago that a cost of hospital bed per day in Ontario is higher than that in US/on average.
#130 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.18 at 9:34 am
@#125 Ottawa Mike
A good friend of mine just received the hospital Bills for his daughters 4 hour experience in a San Francisco emergency room.
( She had an allergic reaction to something they still have figure out what)
$2400 US for the ambulance ride.
$8745 US for the Emerg room tests, doctors, needles, , etc.
She’s 19 and was down there by herself.
No travel insurance.
He’s dealing with the fallout now…..
————————————————————–
Unfortunately a great Canadian finance / real estate blog topic…
TRAVEL INSURANCE: DON’T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
DELETED
My original link was more like this one
but there are no shortages of examples on Google.
Judging by your Pravda style of information control here I would conjecture Herr Harper had good reason to call you on the carpet about your blogging activities while in office.
You have helped me and many others in life but your model for free expression here does you a diservice.
There are lots of places on the Internet where you can blather and post anything, regardless of its authenticity or relevance. This ain’t one of them. Live with it. – Garth
125 Ottawa Mike – Labour, in its broadest sense, is the only economic cost. If we all worked for free, nothing would cost anything.
#117 Evangeline on 11.28.18 at 6:19 am
I think one of the advantages of living in a small place outside of a big city like Toronto, is to be able to see the stars at night. Which in Toronto you can’t.
___
Being able to hear the night sounds is even better. I’ve seen pretty impressive northern lights some years. The stars and a full moon at -30 below against a black landscape is really something else.
I like hearing the crickets, and coyotes at night. We have a big year around pond and I always look forward to hearing the spring peepers come out as things start to warm up – then the cacophony of singing frogs not too long afterwards. I even like hearing the horses and cows off in the distance.
So I’ve said my piece on Canada’s problems
A more positive is this.
How do you change it?
Do you bitch and whine?
Or do you make change by finding leaders who will confront he bureaucracy and oligarchs that control your country.
You find a person who sees ideas, hard work, and wealth as valuable – not evil.
Look at Silicon Valley. Where are we?
Shuffling union jobs around which are susceptible to economic downturns….
You do that by not voting for the status quo parties.
You find a leader who will make tough decisions….
Who is that disruptive person with no obligations to the elites?
I don’t see one…
I see parties controlled by oligarchies…
Trump has ripped all these controllers a new one.
Yup he’s a idiot, but he’s the right idiot.
He is sending a message, a message of change.
How do you make Canada great again.
Can you imagine Trudeau using that?
No.
#130 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.18 at 9:34 am
@#125 Ottawa Mike
A good friend of mine just received the hospital Bills for his daughters 4 hour experience in a San Francisco emergency room.
( She had an allergic reaction to something they still have figure out what)
$2400 US for the ambulance ride.
$8745 US for the Emerg room tests, doctors, needles, , etc.
She’s 19 and was down there by herself.
No travel insurance.
He’s dealing with the fallout now…..
—-
Similar thing happened to my son month and maybe month and a half, something in ice cream done him in, probably penut cross contamination, i remember he was in very rough shape, when it happened, i didn’t want for ambulance had only one epipen, and i know that takes 10 min for ambulance to get to our house, so i stab him drove him to er. I sow him all swollen and unable to breathe, but like this i didn’t see it before. stayed in er, doc and nurses did what they did, until he got stable and he got shipped by ambulance to hospital across town.
Anyways to make ling story short, when he got distracharged,, hospital one epipen to take it home (at that point we had one left) (rule of thumb 1 epipen = 5 minutes of fight for life in his case), and gave my wife taxi “pass” to get back home.
Few days later bill for 70+cad came in mail for ambulance.
—-
And on interesting note until late 60s cops or local mortician were most likely to transport you to the hospital in us. Yes that correct mortician with morgue car… Longer (51min) but very interesting podcast about ems in us, and how all that came about. somewhere in podcast dude mentions that one county in michigan have 18 different ambulance/ems service providers. (12-14min)
https://www.stuffyoushouldknow.com/podcasts/how-paramedics-work.htm
—-
@KLNR i am stel ears
Why would anyone cross the border into USA without buying temporary health insurance?
@132 Stan Brooks on 11.28.18 at 9:46 am
Comparing anafalactic shock to heart surgery, wow that’s something else.
US prices
https://health.costhelper.com/heart-surgery.html
I’m a big fan of R&D.
Rest and Delaxation…
M44BC
“Visualizing the Most Innovative Companies in 2018.
“Move fast and break things. Unless you are breaking stuff, you are not moving fast enough.” So said Mark Zuckerberg, back when Facebook was still growing rapidly and not engulfed in so many public problems. Zuckerberg meant that innovation is messy, and as it turns out, expensive.
PwC’s 2018 Global Innovation Study analyzed the top 1,000 companies spending the most on research and development (R&D). We broke out the rankings by industry for the top 50, letting you easily see the leaders in each category both in overall terms ($B) and R&D intensity (% of total revenue). This approach creates a dynamic view into several different industries and companies, revealing the ones leaning hard into innovation and disruption.
First, a couple caveats. Companies had to publicly disclose their expenditures to be included in the ranking. PwC excluded any subsidiaries with financials included in a parent company. For example, Google’s expenditures roll up to its parent company, Alphabet. Taken altogether, the rankings comprise an astonishing 40% of all the world’s R&D spending for 2018, which includes government R&D.
Top 10 Companies that Spend the Most on R&D
1. Amazon.com (United States): $22.62B
2. Alphabet Inc. (United States): $16.23B
3. Volkswagen (Germany): $15.78B
4. Samsung Electronics (South Korea): $15.31B
5. Intel (United States): $13.10B
6. Microsoft (United States): $12.29B
7. Apple (United States): $11.58B
8. Roche Holding AG (Switzerland): $10.80B
9. Johnson & Johnson (United States): $10.55B
10. Merck & Co. (United States): $10.20B
Amazon is by far and away the leader of the pack with over $22.6B in total expenses. To be fair, we classified Amazon as a retailer, although it should properly be understood as a conglomerate. Much of its R&D budget no doubt goes to things like natural language processing (Alexa), web hosting services and logistics. Even still, Amazon easily surpasses the outlay of Alphabet, which is famous for its “moonshot” innovation projects.
Our visualization also hints at underlying corporate strategies. Take technology hardware and equipment as an example. Samsung ($15.3B) and Apple ($11.6B) are both investing heavily in R&D, but both companies are so successful that these huge figures only represent 5 to 10% of their overall revenue. They have enormous balance sheets. Nokia ($5.9B) is spending substantially less overall on R&D but not when expressed as a percentage of its total revenue (21%). Clearly Nokia is betting the farm, so to speak, on its ability to innovate and stay in business.
Yet another way to look at our visual is to compare different industries against each other. Software and services companies clearly spend substantial percentages of their revenue on R&D, with only IBM allocating less than 10%. That’s similar to the pharmaceuticals industry, where every single company on our visual is well over 10%. In fact, if we ranked the top companies by their R&D intensity, 4 out of the top 5 would be in pharmaceuticals. There’s an obvious and strong linkage between discovering new drugs and staying competitive.
Compare these industries with the auto manufactures, capital goods companies, diversified financials and consumer durables. Not a single company in our visual from these categories allocates more than 10% of its revenue. Granted, their R&D budgets are still enormous by any reasonable standard, but only because most of these companies are gigantic multinationals.
Are these companies safe from disruption? Or should they be spending billions more on R&D? We’d only point out that GE stock is trading below $8 a share. Sears is in a fight for its life. And big companies tend to decline with old age.”
28 November 2018
Visualization
https://howmuch.net/articles/the-worlds-most-innovative-companies
#130 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.18 at 9:34 am
@#125 Ottawa Mike
A good friend of mine just received the hospital Bills for his daughters 4 hour experience in a San Francisco emergency room.
( She had an allergic reaction to something they still have figure out what)
$2400 US for the ambulance ride.
$8745 US for the Emerg room tests, doctors, needles, , etc.
She’s 19 and was down there by herself.
No travel insurance.
He’s dealing with the fallout now…..
===================================
Well, um, yes. And if she had rented a car and not purchased insurance for it and had an at-fault accident with it, she would have had to paid for that too.
Not sure what your point is…?
Travel medical insurance for a 19-year old is dirt cheap.
Education that different countries have different systems = priceless.
#123 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.18 at 8:15 am
———————-
The British PM is Theresa May.
Elizabeth May is the Green Party MP from Saanich-Gulf Islands.
Seeing more and more of this now:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/article-toronto-home-sellers-should-abandon-lofty-expectations-high-end/
Blunt advice being given to home sellers in Toronto right now, by their Agents, is “reduce your price if you want to sell”.
The bull market in Toronto RE may be over.
2 mil for a house in Toronto did not used to be considered “High End”. I’ve seen crap shacks with interiors that need fumigation before you could enter them, going for more than that during the great Toronto housing boom.
Might be in for a long, slow slide in prices now in the GTA. Which is pretty meaningless I guess, if people want to live there. But kind of hard for those who bought houses heavily leveraged as “investment properties” with the thought of 30% year over year capital gains and quick sales using bidding wars and blind auctions. That era seems to be over.
Also looks like my hoped for major collapse in Canadian Bank stocks is on the way, with bank preferreds already getting slaughtered recently and earnings likely to disappoint. Waiting for that ideal buying opportunity.
You will be waiting a long time. Look at RBC today. The slide in pref values says zero about the market’s opinion of banks. It’s simply a risk-off moment which has put preferreds on sale. Ignore it. – Garth
#113 Howard on 11.28.18 at 4:37 am
Now does everyone see why people are conditioned to think housing is an investment? In what other investment will the banks throw oodles of free money your way?
____
I think if you wanted to borrow a pile of money from the bank to invest with, and put your house up as security (like you do via a mortgage), you’d have zero issues getting the money.
Besides, the money isn’t free. Your costs to borrow are front end loaded, and near 100% of the principal after 25 years.
131 Stan Brooks
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. the new age economy is not offering the job store young people there anywhere near the quality of the manufacturing jobs that existed 20 years ago.
I have two nieces with university education and business and they graduated over a year ago and still can’t find work except for zero pay internships. No good!
These people that go on on this blog about all the good jobs in Ontario GTA leave me questioning, anecdotal evidence shows otherwise.
some real estate agents are making top money in selling real estate, trades building trades are making money constructing condos and houses on top of the fields that once employed thousands of people. Seems to be debt is whats keeping the retail sector going but the vast majority by no means want to admit this.
#127 mogulrider on 11.28.18
Hate to break it you but GM is closing plants in the states and South Korea as well.
Distortion detected in your post.
MF
#108 Smoking Man on 11.28.18 at 12:39 am
____
Bravo!
– To IHCTD9 (#6) from MDWD6:
Cool!
Recent sale report.
These guys just took a 500k hit.
The details…
4469 w 7th ave,Vancouver.
Paid 3.9 May 2017
Just sold for 3.6
Originally asking 4.18
Assessment 3.99
So roughly 12.5% or close to 500k after expenses.
It is a war of attrition.
I don’t see anything being able to change to current trend until the next provincial election.
Have we had enough of stupid here yet?
Probably not, so anything is possible.
The speculators of recent years have got to be able to hang on for a couple more years yet.
I hear fingernails on chalkboards…
M44BC
https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/4469-west-7th-avenue
@128 NYCer-
Green acres is the place for me
Farm livin’ is the life for me
Land spreadin’ out so far and wide
Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside
New York is where I’d rather stay
I get allergic smelling hay
I just adore a penthouse view
Dah-ling I love you but give me Park Avenue
…The chores
…The stores
…Fresh air
…Times Square
You are my wife
Good bye, city life
Green Acres we are there
#147 Cto – In today’s world one must be creative, and must cast their net elsewhere. One must look at their skills and education in terms of supply and demand away from the GTA. I just looked at one town center for employment needs, and there are many to be had which becomes a start. Networking is the key, so one might volunteer a service within the community. A part-time career might be considered too, because one month of classes gets you a ticket to sell Real Estate for example.
Of all the doggy pics on this blog, this has to be my favorite one so far.
The dog has a look on his face that says, “Hey sexy, I just dug a hole under this fence to get a better look at you.”
Moving:
If you are going to move…consider Hospitals, doctors and your age. So…if you are young healthy, who cares where you go. But if older 50+ consider this. You will need hospital care. It is a major issue, if you live far from a Hospital and need care. My old Manager moved to Wasga Beach, to retire there. Sold his palace in Newmarket. I saw him last month. I asked him, do you have a doctor? And his reply…nope can’t get one. Have to drive to Newmarket and use the old one. So now you are much older, have to drive in minus 20C in winter conditions? So if your aging….consider LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.
Not enough details given Cto, but there are positions available for a general office clerk, and another with a finance business education. These look like entry positions with a starting salary of $19.60 to $21.38. Not bad for a small town of about 12,000. Of course there are many other jobs available. Nothing will ever happen unless one makes it happen in life.
#153 Jobs on 11.28.18 at 12:46 pm
#147 Cto – In today’s world one must be creative, and must cast their net elsewhere. One must look at their skills and education in terms of supply and demand away from the GTA. I just looked at one town center for employment needs, and there are many to be had which becomes a start. Networking is the key, so one might volunteer a service within the community. A part-time career might be considered too, because one month of classes gets you a ticket to sell Real Estate for example.
That was the action plan from 20 years ago.
No amount of volunteering will help you find a well paying job in today’s world. There simply aren’t any.
Who will be your customer? The indebted average Joe/Jane?
You can be fooled by sellers of hope or just accept the:
“Abandon all hope, you who enter here.” reality. (Thee sign on the Hell’s door in Dante’s Inferno) .
Our elite made a conscious decision 12-15 years ago to financials the economy instead of investment in new technologies/know-how, now we are going to reap what they sow.
The world is globalized, we live extremely expensive life that we can’t afford, and we are far behind in competitiveness.
All that talk about innovations, clusters etc, is just that, talk.
No amount of community service will fill your stomach.
#150 Y. Knott on 11.28.18 at 12:31 pm
– To IHCTD9 (#6) from MDWD6:
Cool!
____
Well, hello little half brother :)
Some day I hope to get a rubber tired hunk of iron to play with – an MDWD9 of course!
#140 Hospital Bills on 11.28.18 at 11:26 am
“Why would anyone cross the border into USA without buying temporary health insurance?”
—————————————————————-
Exactly!
I head to the USA twice a year to clothes-shop for my pre-school grandson.
A great getaway for me.
Three days travel medical = $25.00
Seems like the path to rate neutrality is now on hold according to the US Feds. Seems that Trump did not like all those rate increase despite criticizing Yellen for keeping rates low. But the markets love it – both real estate and the stock market.
Oh well, bears will have to await the next calamity to befall the real estate market as nothing has touched the hottest markets.
Funny how expectations have been walked back for those patient bears that missed the biggest chance at wealth accumulation. For years, it was watch out for the crushing impact of rising rates as they reach the ‘historical norms’ of 5-6%; then, when it was clear those levels were a pipe dream, it was ‘rates will rise substantially to 3-4%;’ and now it looks like rates will continue to stay low.
All the while, real estate went through the stratosphere because of the supposedly biggest determinant – low interest rates. Looks like the era of cheap rates will continue after a little market tease. Looks like minor price gains or a flat market will be the norm going forward as the ‘fear’ and ‘financial stress’ of these few piddley 0.25 rate increases have failed to fell the market. Without very significant rate increase, there is no driver for a market correction in the hottest markets like the GTA and Metro Vancouver.
All those bears on the sidelines waiting for rates to shake up the market will continue to be waiting – and wrong for many more years to come.
#68 Linda on 11.27.18 at 8:02 pm
Garth, sure hope you didn’t name your ‘unsinkable’ tugboat the Titanic:)
Child care costs. I find it more than a little ironic. In ‘the good old days’ when women ‘didn’t work’ but stayed home & cared for the kids etc. the household tasks were perceived to have no monetary value. It was the woman’s role to raise the children, cook, clean & organize the entertaining. Men earned the income to pay for the lifestyle, plus were expected to cut the lawn. ‘Handy’ men were desired, because they could do essential house maintenance & maybe even fix the family vehicle.
My point is the fact women’s work was perceived to have no monetary value. So when I read or hear complaints about the cost of child care I smile, because obviously the work being done does have a value & quite a significant one at that. So why is it o.k. to pay others for child care but not to pay a parent to do the same thing? After all, not a few child care workers are parents too.
===================================
It is o.k. to pay others for child care but not to pay a parent to do the same thing. Let me explain why with a few examples:
1) I’m a single guy. I have to do all my own cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. but no one pays me to do that stuff. You don’t hear single guys complaining about the fact that no one is paying them to do housework, just women with families. The complaints kind of smack of entitlement.
2) Who would pay you to do housework anyways? It’s something you have to do, you’re doing it for yourself (and your family, if applicable). Your husband is working, bringing home money, and sharing it with the family. So you’re getting paid to do the housework indirectly anyways.
3) No one is paying the husband to mow the lawn, but he’s not complaining that he’s not getting paid. It’s just something that needs to be done.
4) The reason why it makes sense to pay childcare workers to look after your kids, but not your wife is because the childcare workers are doing something for someone else, and their time is valuable, so you have to pay them for their time, like everything else in life. On the other hand, the wife is looking after her own kids, so she’s doing something for herself, so she doesn’t get paid for it, like everything else in life.
I think the argument that “women’s work is perceived to have no value” is a moot point. It’s more an example of exceptionalism than anything else.
271 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 4:36 pm
#268 Tater on 11.27.18 at 4:03 pm
So, you love paying taxes, of course you are a lair.
Nobody likes paying taxes, even Warren Buffet.
Pretending to speak for the average Canadian: of course you are going to help all these unfortunate souls who lose their GM jobs with your good fortune, aren’t you?
Let the taxes you pay increase by the day.
God bless you.
Piece.
—————————————————————-
Hey assh*le, if you’re going to call me a liar, at least read what I wrote.
I’ll wait for you to point out where I said I like paying taxes. Or that I claim to speak for all Canadian.
I can’t imagine what it is like to walk around as stupid and bitter as you are.
148 MF
GM is closing factories because its products are not wanted.
They are closing factories that are not needed anymore.
Mary Barra is a disruptive innovator….
GM will still build in the US.
Just not what and where they did before.
That is a whole different discussion. I am talking about businesses leaving Canada.
The oil sector is now US owned… Encana is now a US company…
BTW – He is going to tariff Apple to bring manufacturing back to the US.
What does your leader do….
Trudeau meets with his union buddy….
BIG BIG DIFF DUDE
You will be waiting a long time. Look at RBC today. The slide in pref values says zero about the market’s opinion of banks. It’s simply a risk-off moment which has put preferreds on sale. Ignore it. – Garth
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don’t ignore it – preferred on sale – I am buying (have been for over a month on select items). At this point in time I feel safer buying discounted preferreds (with some extra $$ above the regular contributions).
Have to do your research of course to understand the rate reset date, make some educated guess on benchmark rates at those dates, what is the cap gain upside if prefs are called, etc.
I expect to see markets above these numbers on Dec 31
Dow 25296
S&P 2743
TSX 16349
Why? Because those are those are the Jan 1 2018 opening numbers to be topped for year end executive bonuses.
That TSX # looks like a mighty challenge though!
Maybe another year. Not sure which one.
#115 Leanne on 11.28.18 at 5:56 am
I’m in a similar situation, but where to move? Any blog dogs have suggestions of places within 2 hours of Toronto that offer a good life and balance for young families???
//////////////////
check out Welland.
I’ve been here 1.5 yrs.
LOVE IT!
#126 BlorgDorg on 11.28.18 at 9:07 am
You have maintained exquisite courtesy throughout this thread without resorting to cheap rejoinders. Good on you!
Toronto condo sales fall off a cliff (43% decline year over year, lowest October sales in over a decade), while inventories balloon 18%. Detached homes down 46% and inventories up 30%.
In the words of Mark Baum from The Big Short: “Boom”.
#157 Stan Brooks – To volunteer in a small community setting for a community service places one in the spotlight called networking. You would be surprised who you might meet personally, who is a major employer in areas of government or industry. Now for a married couple why not join a service club, or a private golf club for connections? This is not a difficult option for a smaller town as compared to a huge city environment.
@#140 Hospital Bill$
“Why would anyone cross the border into USA without buying temporary health insurance?”
++++
Because they’re 19 and indestructible…..or stupid?
@#12 x12 Howie
“The British PM is Theresa May.
Elizabeth May is the Green Party MP from Saanich-Gulf Islands”
++++
My apologies Howie.
I mistook one delusional female Politician named May for another……
#161 Renter’s Revenge! on 11.28.18 at 1:27 pm
—–
Pretty much. The whole gender role beef is done anyway. Your typical husband of 2018 demands their wives work outside the home to bring home the bacon – and the more bacon the better.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge since Linda’s comments were on the minds of Women at large.
Just about every dual income couple has the option to hire out the house work – we did while we had kids and for a few years after that. We split the work for another 10 years or so, now the kids do most of it.
I’ve always considered doing work around the house “paying yourself”.
Why would anybody cross over to the U.S without health insurance? The same reason American 19 year olds don’t have insurance, because they rarely, rarely need it.
The “affordable” health care act was predicated on the assumption that young people would get onboard, (as their rates would be comparatively low) and help subsidize the health care costs of an aging demographic.
Of course this didn’t happen. In your teens and twenties you still feel immortal….plus, many younger people are paying off student loans and or piecing together part time minimum wage jobs to get by.
You do know that employers are not responsible for health care insurance for part time employees? This is one of the reasons there is “full employment.”
One full time job became two part time jobs. Like abra cadabra, it’s pretty easy magic to create the illusion that all is well, given the fact that the average American (and non-American, obviously) doesn’t read in depth articles about the subject. Correct?
I don’t mean to talk down to anybody, but really, you have to get past mainstream headlines on these issues and read credible, well sourced articles on the subject. Like, for example, the Atlantic or Harper’s magazine.
I am so freaking glad I no longer live in the U.S. Hell Hole –and God bless all who do!
#173 Gulf Breeze on 11.28.18 at 4:56 pm
No, its not a MSM conspiracy nor has anything to do with US affordable care act nor millennial part time job servitude or whatever political horse you are flogging…
It is a simple inconvertible fact, any Canadian who can afford to cross the border, can and must have out-of-province travel health insurance before leaving. Full stop.
@69 Hadenuf
Beyond Hope. But you gotta like winter. Lots of it.
IHCTD9 – its the tres sexy coveralls!
Renter’s Revenge: first, my example was not for single women but those with children. Single women (& married w.o children) obviously do the work for themselves, just as single guys (& childless married men) do. Second, the point was that ‘women’s work’ was perceived to have no value; however as a business (cook, cleaner, child care, nurse) it does have a monetary value. Third, how do you get to the conclusion that doing something for the children is doing something for the woman (or man, for that matter)? The children are a separate entity – ‘other people’ in point of law once they leave the mother’s womb. Doing something for the children is definitely not ‘doing something for herself’. The fact you put a value on the time of the child care worker ‘the child care workers are doing something for someone else, and their time is valuable’ simply underscores the point. However, IHCTD9 correctly notes that this kind of lifestyle is no longer the norm & has not been for quite some time. I will add that a recognition of the value of the work done by anyone is not entitlement. Of course, in the ‘good old days’ married women were not permitted to open a bank account without husbandly permission either, regardless of whether they worked outside the home. Further, single working women often lost their jobs upon marriage (employers terminated them). The rationale was that they no longer required employment as the husbands would provide support, regardless of the husband’s ability to do so or the wife’s desire to work.
#158 IHCTD9 on 11.28.18 at 1:22 pm
Some day I hope to get a rubber tired hunk of iron to play with – an MDWD9 of course!
You’ll be a lot more popular at parades on paved roads! ;)
#176 Linda on 11.28.18 at 7:43 pm
IHCTD9’s point that the gender divide is no longer the norm is true, but I don’t think it really my diminishes my point. The traditional gender roles can be reversed or mixed and matched, and my argument still stands. People still do stuff at home for themselves and their families, and no one is going to pay them to do those things.
I just don’t know what you expect. There’s just no one to pay you for the work you do at home, regardless of who you’re doing it for. Your kids can’t pay you to take care of them (nor should they be expected to). If you want the government to pay you take care of your own kids, then you’re just asking them to tax someone else.
If you’re talking about getting recognition for the value of your work as separate from getting paid for it, then fine. Then it’s up to your spouse and kids to appreciate what you do for them.
I just don’t know where the money is supposed to come from when you do your own housework or raise your own kids.
Who is going to pay you to do that stuff??
Please educate me.