Transitions

As GM shares surged at the opening bell on Monday, pissed-off autoworkers were walking off the job in Oshawa. The contrast was ironically perfect. Shareholders scored while workers were gored. Gong hybrid and electric may be the immediate reason General Motors is mothballing its sprawling Canadian complex, but this also speaks to us all about the future.

The wealth divide grows ever wider. The polarization of society along with it, sadly. The days when a guy could punch hubcaps or bolt in gas tanks for a living are gone. ‘Middle-class jobs’ is the new mantra of the T2 government at a time when extinction stalks them.

Not only is work being chewed up by AI and robotics, but by global outsourcing and the new American protectionism. We may not know for a while if Trump policies encouraged GM execs to abandon Oshawa, but the US prez often used a Chevy Impala as an example of trade imbalances. That ride, of course, is made here. Soon, no more.

“Now, the people in my community are assuming that houses will suddenly become cheap overnight,” says blog dog Ian, in Oshawa. “I don’t think so. There’s going to be a parting gift from GM that will sustain families for a while. Or perhaps I’m wrong? I mean, the ripples from this stone being thrown in the pond will spread wide. Companies that provide parts to GM will be in trouble too. Convenience stores won’t see their regular customers as often.

“You have to wonder what this could mean long term. That’s why I’m writing you! This is complicated and far beyond my scope of knowledge!”

No, Ian. It’s unclear. Oshawa may lose its biggest employer, but this is not like the mill shutting down in Merritt. It’s a big metropolitan area with the capacity to water down grief and loss. However carving 2,500 direct jobs and maybe ten times that number of indirect ones of out the local economy is a giant deal. In time we will know the impact. It won’t be positive.

There are two thoughts this pathetic blog would like to share on a pivotal day.

First, we’re uncompetitive and growing moreso, to our detriment. Just days ago Ottawa refused to match the massive corporate tax cut which ignited the US economy a year ago. Grudgingly, the Libs will allow our factories to write off new equipment faster, as in America, plus begin the process of reviewing burdensome regs. But. Too. Little. Too. Late. We was Trumped.

Meanwhile global companies like GM pay Canadians more than Americans or Mexicans to do the same job because we’re a high-cost society. Nowhere is that more evident than with real estate.

For example, GM has a big assembly plant in Tennessee located in the town of Spring Hill. Forty thousand people live there, about 30 miles out of Nashville. Here is what $274,000 buys you.

In that plant assembly line workers earn $16 an hour. In Oshawa they’re paid $46. In part this is because houses cost three or four times as much to buy in southern Ontario. For example, this is what $800,000 gets you in that community. Now you know why GM shares are rising.

Here’s the second thought. The stuff we dig up or build, then export, accounts for about a third of the entire economy. The rest is made up of consumer spending. Of the stuff we sell, almost three-quarters goes south. Here are the top two exports: (1) oil – 20% of shipments, and (2) cars – 15%.

As detailed here recently, our oil business is in crisis, whacked by low prices and strangled by a lack of pipelines. The difference between the world price of crude and what our guys get has been at a record high level. Producers are being slaughtered and wells abandoned for a daily cost of about $90 million in lost revenues. Taxpayers may have bought a pipeline company, but no pipe is being laid.

Now our most iconic car factory is slated for shuttering. The American president is still considering a tariff on Canadian-made vehicles despite the USMCA, in which our main focus seems to have been gender parity. This wasn’t supposed to happen.

So, Ian, it’s impossible to know if house prices in Oshawa and Durham Region will be pushed lower as the GM complex empties. But if Alberta is any indicator, there’s little doubt.

About the picture

Anna writes: “Luna the golden retriever belongs to my sister and is standing in this picture with her landlord’s dogs on their farm. “They will get Luna when my sister passes away in a few months from cancer. We hope she makes it through Christmas.”

273 comments ↓

#1 For those about to flop... on 11.26.18 at 2:24 pm

These guys have updated the Bitcoin Blitz…

M44BC

“Where is the Bottom? Putting the Bitcoin Crash into Perspective.

The latest Bitcoin crash has some investors believing the “end of days” are near. Once bullish “hodlers” and committed individuals now voice their concerns and fears that this crash indicates that the cryptocurrency market may be faced with a new normal. While the latest crash has been painful, it is best to step back and assess the current state of Bitcoin relative to its past. Bitcoin has “crashed” many times over the past several years, but how does this latest downturn compare to past steep sell offs?

In order to compare the most recent Bitcoin crash to other past panics, we decided to create a visual that clearly shows twelve other times that the top cryptocurrency has sold off. Each box represents a specific time period in which the price of Bitcoin came under extreme selling pressure. Using the BitStamp Bitcoin-to-U.S.-Dollar (BTC/USD) pair, our team found the specific highs and lows of the past crashes dating back to January 2012. Utilizing a blue arrow, we highlight the percentage of value lost during each sell off. Lastly, we measured the length of each specific crash period by stating the number of days the correction ultimately lasted.

This Is Not Bitcoin’s First Rodeo, Top Crypto Has History Of Surviving Crashes

Despite the steep 70% losses during the latest cryptocurrency sell off, this is not an unusual event for Bitcoin. Since January 2012, there have been thirteen major corrections or crashes in Bitcoin, including this latest rout. Losses have been as minimal as 30% and as severe as 87% during these Bitcoin panics. Compared to its past events, this latest correction was not even as severe or painful as it has been in the past.

The latest correction took place between December 17, 2017 and February 6, 2018, or 48 days, in which 70% of Bitcoin value was lost. However, if you look at the period between April 10, 2013 and April 12, 2013, Bitcoin lost an astounding 83% of its value over a three-day period. Talk about a panic! The point is that crashes have become relatively common throughout the cryptocurrency market, which is known for its swift volatility. It is important to turn to data and the facts in times of turmoil, rather than relying on one’s emotions.

Here is a breakdown of the visual, showing each of the corrections in Bitcoin by date of occurrence. It will also include the percent of value loss and the length of the correction in number of days:

1. January 12, 2012 – January 27, 2012, -30%, 16 Days

2. August 17, 2012 – August 19, 2012, -57%, 3 Days

3. March 6, 2013 – March 7, 2013, -33%. 2 Days

4. March 21, 2013 – March 23, 2013, -35%, 3 Days

5. April 10, 2013 – April 12, 2013, -83%, 3 Days

6. November 19, 2013 – November 19, 2013, -50%, 1 Day

7. November 30, 2013 – January 14, 2015, -87%, 411 Days

8. March 10, 2017 – March 25, 2017, -34%, 16 Days

9. May 25, 2017 – May 27, 2017, -33%, 3 Day

10. June 12, 2017 – July 16, 2017, -39%, 35 Days

11. September 2, 2017 – September 15, 2017, -40%, 14 Days

12. November 8, 2017 – November 12, 2017, -30%, 5 Days

13. December 17, 2017 – ???, -82%, ??? Days

Overall, the latest correction in the price of Bitcoin is nothing out of the ordinary. History shows that the top cryptocurrency has sustained much more rapid losses during a shorter period of time over the course of the past several years, yet it has not discouraged long-term investors. Regulatory crackdown fears seem to be main source of the latest crash, but the recent cryptocurrency regulatory hearing before the U.S. Senate struck a much brighter tone than crypto traders had anticipated. This shows that fears of regulators attempting to shut down the cryptocurrency market are overblown. In the end, cryptocurrency is still a very relatively new concept that will have its highs and lows, but its resilience in the face of uncertainty has been nothing short of incredible.”

26 November 2018

Visualization

https://howmuch.net/articles/bitcoin-all-major-crashes

#2 Lost...but not leased on 11.26.18 at 2:37 pm

How come Flop is #1 so many times?

#3 DON on 11.26.18 at 2:45 pm

Anna writes: “Luna the golden retriever belongs to my sister and is standing in this picture with her landlord’s dogs on their farm. “They will get Luna when my sister passes away in a few months from cancer. We hope she makes it through Christmas.”

*******
I hope so too!
Best wishes.

#4 Mike T on 11.26.18 at 2:47 pm

My thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by the GM closure in Oshawa. I am a Canadian living and working in the US. I fear this is just the begininng of a prolonged contraction that will create a double whammie of job losses and housing pain north of the border. I have always planned to return to Canada some day. I am not sure I will be able to afford to. Sad, I love Canada.

#5 Another Deckchair on 11.26.18 at 2:53 pm

Garth: you wrote:

“Now our most iconic car factory is slated for shuttering. The American president is still considering a tariff on Canadian-made vehicles despite the USMCA, in which our main focus seems to have been gender parity.”

Gosh! did we at least get gender parity?

#6 NoName on 11.26.18 at 2:57 pm

Whats interesting yesterday i was using gargler to serch fot Oshawa plant closing and what i found very interesting that some lets call ir media company frim Winnipeg repoted a news 3 days before anyone in Ontario.

https://imgur.com/a/DZ8gOsD
Screen shot for this news shiws link to video reporting it was 4 days old today, and link to it.
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mobile/video?clipId=1549095

https://imgur.com/a/0ktyBMV
And one more screen shot for this news shiws link to video reporting it was 4 days old today, and link to it.
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mobile/video?clipId=1548945

Unfortunately videos or page that host video i didnt sea time stamp, but ill take garglers word for it that is 4 days old., I dont thing that date they reported a link was wrong. I gues one phone call or email to winippegons would clear that for me. But unfortunately i got to pick kid from school, maybe some coud do that and clain mone for trusted source nin fake news credit form fed. gov.

So now i am wandering why this didnt gain any traction in Ontario…

#7 Centurion on 11.26.18 at 3:03 pm

Definitely hit the nail on the head when you said we’re such a high-cost society – especially in real estate. Where the Hyundai Plant is located in Montgomery, AL I see many ranchers going for $50K – $200K US. This is where our greed gets us when I see houses here that cost such unstainable amounts.

#8 Cto on 11.26.18 at 3:05 pm

So Garth, I greatly fear that the Canadian economy specifically the GTA is sitting on a very weak feet of clay
Not sure where the jobs are being generated from to support million-dollar houses and 1/2 million dollar condos built in huge multiples and buildings that are a thousand feet high.
Every economy needs a primary industry. Not sure if building houses and condos for people who can Borrow money is a very good one.
Garth, dogs, anybody please tell me where the primary source of jobs is coming from in the GTA because this whole thing confounds me.
Maybe they can keep the show going as our Central banker has now the excuse to keep interest rates super low indefinitely!

#9 Ezzy on 11.26.18 at 3:08 pm

As much as I don’t like what’s been done (I work in the automotive industry), I can’tblame GM for doing what a business can/will do in a capitalist society. It exists to protect its own interests, not ours. Also, it was mostly an overflow plant for sedans and a few CUV that don’t sell well anyway. Sales of sedans, in general, have been plummeting for a few years. On occasion there was overflow for the pick-up trucks, but not much. As good a plant as it was it just didn’t make sense for GM to hold on to it anymore. There’s been talk of GM shuttering the plant for over a decade, so this shouldn’t be as shocking to us as it’s being made out to be. Rather than spending billions on GM we should have been courting Chinese/Korean car makers. This mess is as much a product of corporate decision making as it is poor politics on our part.

#10 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 3:10 pm

#1

Bitcoin is a scam perpetrated by hucksters
Its value is zero

Get over it

Its like goldbugs saying the planet is blowing up and zombies are everywhere

You people buy into these tulip scams

Next it’ll I-robots that connect to blockchain extension cords securely

Central banks will control currency.

Done, finished, finito

Bitcoiners were ripped off

When you stand back its the biggest joke in history

#11 For those about to flop... on 11.26.18 at 3:12 pm

Pink Pumpkins being carved in Vancouver.

Featured these guys once before and they have done a couple more reductions since then.

Most people by now know that detached has hit the wall, but attached properties have kept moving relatively unscathed as long as they are under the million marker in most cases.

These guys are the wrong side of the line unfortunately for them and now this townhome is on the market for less than purchase price two years ago.

The details…

242 Waterleigh Drive, Vancouver.

Paid 1.22 September 2016

Originally asking 1.39

Now asking 1.19

Assessment 1.32

How many people in Vancouver are currently underwater?

Dunno,but we are about to find out where the Waterleigh…

M44BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/242-waterleigh-drive

#12 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 3:16 pm

If T2 gets another 4 next year, everyone had better get serious about any pile of debt they’re servicing. They better have a good look at the company they work for (public servants excepted). They better get a realistic assessment of their financial position.

Hard times could be on the way.

I more or less expect a T2 win, might even be another majority – so you might better just start planning right now.

As folks get fearful – the bulk of our GDP (consumer spending) will start getting ground down as folks engage in belt tightening, debt repayment, increased savings, and generally trying to solidify their financial positions. A little fear, and everything starts changing.

Where is all this going to lead? Dirt cheap oil, more dead manufacturing plants, more public employees, less international trade, less consumer spending? It’ll be the financial napalming of government revenues and a mushroom cloud expansion of deficits and debt.

The answer to this problem will undoubtedly be more taxes and revenue generation schemes.

But here is the problem – our governments are collectively pretty much near the end of what can be reliably generated via additional tax increases. Many Canadians are already offsetting and avoiding taxes – and these actions will increase in lockstep alongside any additional revenue increase strategies.

These Canadians are the smart ones IMHO. They’ve got an ear to the rail, and a plan at the ready. They’ve known for a while we’re buzzing too close to the light bulb, and it’s time to diverge from the swarm.

Trudeau won’t make any tough decisions, and the financial fortunes of Canadian Governments and Canadian Citizens is obviously not a priority to the guy. Another round of T2 means a lot of can kicking, question avoiding, more bad decisions that favour lobbying efforts over thousands of jobs and billions in revenues.

Seriously, get a plan in the works…

#13 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 3:18 pm

Like I’ve said several times I moved my family South because of T2 and his communist beliefs and ways.

He is the greatest threat to the survival of Canada.

And as it turned out he attacked small business like they were criminals, like his father did to oil companies who simply left and the West imploded.

This news today makes sense form GM’s perspective. It must make profit. Canada is a wasteland now.

Down here Trump is nothing – Nobody cares except the Fake News Lefties.

Its the economy stupid. Trump has created an exploding economy.

My families taxes dropped the first year 20%
This year 31% because of the tax breaks
That is money folks!!!!

Canada is doomed

It just is, any other explanation is pointless
You grew up asking government for everything and they abided by your wishes. You are now a broke nanny state with a collapsing economy.

You have 300,000 too many public workers at least
You have waste like never before in public finance.

Your debt is far beyond your means to ever pay back….

The USA is the engine of the world. You can bitch and holler all you want.

It just is.

You either boil like a frog or you move…

#14 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 3:22 pm

#8 Cto on 11.26.18 at 3:05 pm
So Garth, I greatly fear that the Canadian economy specifically the GTA is sitting on a very weak feet of clay
Not sure where the jobs are being generated from to support million-dollar houses and 1/2 million dollar condos built in huge multiples and buildings that are a thousand feet high.
Every economy needs a primary industry. Not sure if building houses and condos for people who can Borrow money is a very good one.
Garth, dogs, anybody please tell me where the primary source of jobs is coming from in the GTA because this whole thing confounds me.
Maybe they can keep the show going as our Central banker has now the excuse to keep interest rates super low indefinitely!

There are no good paying jobs in GTA to support even 25 % of these valuations in the suburbs, 35 % in Toronto.

It is the biggest ever Ponzi credit scheme in history that will implode with a huge crash.

For the last 10-15 years the whole economy was based on ever increasing credit, no real wealth but highly leveraged valuations.

The implosion of manufacturing is direct impact from the unsustainable high cost of living, combined with implosion in WCS prices we have pretty much nothing left except few good mining companies.

The perfect storm hitting with these liberal fools in power.

#15 CFA on 11.26.18 at 3:29 pm

Maybe it has to do with no further financial support from the feds or ontario. Feds wrote off 2008 bailout loans in 2018. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/loans-canada-account-finance-auto-sector-bailout-2009-gm-chrysler-1.4722529

#16 NewToETFs on 11.26.18 at 3:32 pm

About the photo: my heart goes out to Luna’s owner. Thanks for sharing the photo, helps us keep perspective on what truly matters – the time we have left with our loved ones. -hugs-

#17 crossbordershopper on 11.26.18 at 3:34 pm

it was a whole month since i crossed over so this past weekend i got a little shacky had to go.
it has always surprised me how canada still exists to the extent it does. with western oil almost free and a pm who thinks some lower level court decision should be his be all and end all for decision making, no backbone.
do you think trump would care if some court said you cant build a pipe where you want to. ya we all know the answer.
morneau decides to increase equipment cca rates, great but he obviously knows nothing about the economy and how to stimulate it. new machinery is a last century concept those items are made in the usa and germany for the most part and after importation, few companies use machines like they used to, the future is in the cloud and thats where morneau head is at.
so as i get a jug of milk for $1.35 us at sams club, do i cry for our canadian farmers, or $1.25 for large eggs no. Canadian farmers have been protected for years, and soon i hope real estate in southern Ontario comes back to reality since people live in this fantasy land of crazy leverage, lots of driving, high taxes etc. we think we have a safer place to live and overall better balanced life then our southern friends its not true.
were not. our government controls and dictates our lives, and when once every 25 years you get a real inexperienced kid and his sidekick finance minister you can get a real poor outcome.
more plants will close as canada competitiveness comes to light, 16 is what they should be paid, its a fair wage, not 40 cdn. but all others along our society should also take a hair cut. its the reality of life, we were lied to all along.
the only answer to this ponzy scheme is to keep lying to immigrants and hope they dont talk to the old immigrants before they can go back. then there stuck and we got them, who else would want to come here if you told them the truth about this place.

#18 PeterfromCalgary on 11.26.18 at 3:34 pm

The nonsense about transitioning to electric cars is just anti fossil fuel spin. All the factories closed produced sedans including the partly electric Chevy Volt. Sedans are the most fuel efficient class of cars so the green washing of this decision is only to fool low information environmentalists (which is almost all environmentalists).

#19 Chris on 11.26.18 at 3:34 pm

#mogulrider

In the US you get nothing for the taxes paid. Income Tax in the US should be 0% because you get nothing. In Canada, you get free health care and a lot other benefits. You get valuable services for the taxes paid. In the US you would have to pay several thousands of dollars in insurance premiums which has increased every year.

#20 Chris on 11.26.18 at 3:35 pm

#mogulrider :

In the US you get nothing for the taxes paid. Income Tax in the US should be 0% because you get nothing. In Canada, you get free health care and a lot other benefits. You get valuable services for the taxes paid. In the US you would have to pay several thousands of dollars in insurance premiums which has increased every year.

#21 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 3:46 pm


#19 Chris on 11.26.18 at 3:34 pm
#mogulrider

In the US you get nothing for the taxes paid. Income Tax in the US should be 0% because you get nothing. In Canada, you get free health care and a lot other benefits. You get valuable services for the taxes paid. In the US you would have to pay several thousands of dollars in insurance premiums which has increased every year.

Enough of this bullshit.

Your health care might be free but the cost to cover it comes from my taxes. Not anymore fortunately as I have moved out, luckily.

As of your ‘free health care’ with the stupidest single provider system in the world I had to go to US for almost every case that required specialist and ended up paying tens of thousands of USD on US (that bad paid) health care.

There is no free stuff except the cheese in the mouse trap.

Imagine that: If you have 2 problems you have to book 2 doctors appointments with your family doctor in Ontario as the provincial health care systems pays for only one visit per day.

============================

#17 crossbordershopper on 11.26.18 at 3:34 pm

Wild Bill is an incredibly incompetent finance minister.
What makes it worse is his unbelievably limited intelligence, zero sense of humor and mind-blowing arrogance.

#22 Ernesto on 11.26.18 at 3:49 pm

#mogulrider you are 100% correct

#23 JB on 11.26.18 at 3:59 pm

#8 Cto on 11.26.18 at 3:05 pm

So Garth, I greatly fear that the Canadian economy specifically the GTA is sitting on a very weak feet of clay
Not sure where the jobs are being generated from to support million-dollar houses and 1/2 million dollar condos built in huge multiples and buildings that are a thousand feet high.
Every economy needs a primary industry. Not sure if building houses and condos for people who can Borrow money is a very good one.
Garth, dogs, anybody please tell me where the primary source of jobs is coming from in the GTA because this whole thing confounds me.
Maybe they can keep the show going as our Central banker has now the excuse to keep interest rates super low indefinitely!
…………………………………………………..
Jobs will be here, but not the overpaid ones from the likes of GM. Those Union wages were what propped up the home and condo spec in Oshawa and other motor towns. The condos will be hard hit when the owners start to fail as the rest of the owners have to pick up the cost of the fees. Ouch………… Banks don’t like to get stuck with condos. Homes they can flip.

#24 Ace Goodheart on 11.26.18 at 4:02 pm

RE: #125 cto on 11.26.18 at 1:02 pm

“So… where’s the money coming from?
How does our economy sustain without these primary industries as a solid foundation, or are we just sitting on an unstable “feet of clay”.”

The money comes from here:

http://www.debtclock.ca/provincial-debtclocks/ontario/

And here:

http://www.debtclock.ca/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImYSV6vfy3gIVxR-GCh1Exw_jEAAYAiAAEgJwoPD_BwE

Just imaginary money, borrowed by governments that will never repay it.

Ontario’s debt, which stands at slightly over 319 billion Canadian Dollars, would take 319 years to repay, at the rate of a billion dollars per year, if the Province of Ontario ever managed to run a budget surplus.

However, since 1963 Ontario has had budget deficits 80% of the time, and only small surpluses. The last surplus occurred during the early Dalton McGuinty years.

So to pay back 319 billion dollars, we need 319 years of budget surplus, and that surplus needs to be at least a billion a year.

The reality is that will never happen, Ontario is in a structural deficit and structural debt situation, the debt will grow each year, and this money will never be paid back.

So when you see hospitals and schools and universities being built, and government money being showered around and everyone talking about gender parity and pay equity and how everyone is going to be equal in these newly built “Pleasant Villes” where everyone works for the government, has a giant mortgage and is looking forward to their pensions and retirement, after 25 years of low interest rates, stable employment and everything being wonderful, this is all being built using borrowed government money.

Try to start a business and you’ll see what I mean. The government agencies line up outside and fight for position to be the ones to tax you first. By the time they are done, you might have enough left to feed yourself (while you watch your government employee neigbours buy new cars and have expensive lives, spending your taxes).

There is no industry or enterprise left in this Province.

#25 JB on 11.26.18 at 4:04 pm

#22 Ernesto on 11.26.18 at 3:49 pm

#mogulrider you are 100% correct
…………………………………………………….
Except for the part about “Do not ever get sick in the United States unless you have the absolute best medical coverage ever”. Good coverage is expensive. If your half ass insured it can even bankrupt you in a New York minute! When the bills start rolling in you will wish you had died.

Canadian myth. Most Americans are covered. – Garth

#26 Oakville Stinks on 11.26.18 at 4:12 pm

Canada us totally uncompetitive…especially because of Carbon taxes, electricity costs, not to mention provincial/national taxes the elected officials squander due to corruption! Oh yeah and transpacific deal trudeau signed!

#27 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 4:16 pm

Sometimes I think investigating the USA for a new place to live is inviting.

But, then I remember it’s actually I – not my government – that determines how much tax I pay.

I remember that I only need 20 more years max of work, and minimum wage will do the job just fine at this point if need be.

I’m getting close to handing off the baton to some poor young Canadian schmuck, and I’ll be taking more than I’m giving for the first time in my life.

Might as well hang around to collect…

#28 For those about to flop... on 11.26.18 at 4:17 pm

CONFIRMED PINK SNOW.

Confirmation of this townhome loss has come through.

The details…

6240 Neville st,Burnaby.

Paid 1.35 April 2016

Sold 1.30 October 2018

Assessment 1.30

So approaching a 10% loss after expenses.

I just showed a pumpkin in progress that is seemingly going down the same path.

Seems to be the older products getting whacked more than the newer ones overall.

The Sell Squad strangled these guys for a 125k…

M44BC

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAzV0U5Qg==

https://www.zolo.ca/burnaby-real-estate/6240-neville-street

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a small donation for cancer research.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#29 Dolce Vita on 11.26.18 at 4:17 pm

This is not the last on layoffs by GM. It ISN’T over yet.

Today’s news was exclusively about hourly worker job losses (also 2 plants in the US will be closed).

The STORY BEING UNDER REPORTED in Canada right now is (below per Detroit Free Press and repeated by USA Today, added to by HuffPost):

“On Oct. 31, GM CEO Mary Barra sent an email to all 50,000 salaried GM employees in NORTH AMERICA saying the automaker is offering voluntary buyouts to the 17,700 salaried employees who have 12 years or more with GM…GM will complete the voluntary buyouts by Nov. 29.”

They are looking for 7,000 to sign up by the above date. The number volunteering for the offer is likely to be closer to 4,000 as reported by GM Managers.

That means 3,000 or more salaried workers in North America could be terminated starting in January…On Jan. 15 GM will announce the involuntary job eliminations and “walk people out”.

——————————————-

All this as GM gets out of sedans, consolidates SUV & Truck production & to a few common platforms and transitions/concentrates to/on electric propulsion, autonomous vehicles and ride-sharing.

Garth, it’s not just a technology shift it’s also due to changing Consumer demands (clean, sit back &/or share). Of course markets happy about these future and new revenue streams.

PS:

Barra said GM is still HIRING people with expertise in software and electric and autonomous vehicles (she did not mention if that also included assembly and not just design).

Hope we have a lot of that in Canada.

#30 renter in Surrey on 11.26.18 at 4:20 pm

Who cares about auto or oil industry?

Fentanyl is new driver of Canadian economy (at least in BC).

Secret police study finds crime networks could have laundered over $1B through Vancouver homes in 2016.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4658157/fentanyl-vancouver-real-estate-billion-money-laundering-police-study/

So 10-fold difference between Tennessee and BC RE prices might be somehow related to this.

#31 Calgary Cowboy on 11.26.18 at 4:24 pm

Great post today G-Money!

If only your simplified explanation of factors at play in the Canadian economy could be shared with a broader audience, we’d stand more likely to get rid of T2 next Fall.

But wait….Trudeau is ‘deeply disappointed’ and Minister Bains is ‘personally very, very hurt by this’….waa waa boys, this isn’t the kindergarten playground :(

G-Money for PM! Spread the word Blog Dogs!

#32 Tammy Smantal on 11.26.18 at 4:25 pm

What about all the GM bondholders and shareholders that got ripped off while Democrats and Obama were in power.

GM shares what a big joke.

#33 Disillusioned Canadian Gen Zer on 11.26.18 at 4:30 pm

Don’t worry, the lovely Lisa MacLeod will enamor us with her compassionate words and tell the unemployed that the best social assistance is a job, while her party does backdoor deals that infringe on the wages, rights and stability of employees.

“The best social program is a job”, Lisa MacLeod.

Where are the 2,500 GM jobs in Oshawa again?

#34 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 4:36 pm

@#12 IHCTD9
“I more or less expect a T2 win, might even be another majority …
++++

I’d be very surprised.
“Selfie Sox” seems to be pushing all the wrong buttoms coast to coast.
I’d be amazed if he gets another majority.

Probably a minority.
The best thing that has happened has been ( Baby Harper) Scheer as his competition.
Everything else Sox has done seems to be annoying the hell out of just about everyone.

#35 AGuyInVancouver on 11.26.18 at 4:36 pm

#22 Ernesto on 11.26.18 at 3:49 pm
#mogulrider you are 100% correct
_ _ _
Then why don’t you move down there and join him? Notice he doesn’t mention anything about healthcare insurance.

As to Oshawa, there were 23,000 people employed there in the Eighties and down to 2,500 now, yet Oshawa survived. GM is a dead man walking. I’m surprised to see Garth, supposedly a fiscal conservative, arguing we should match Trump’s tax cuts which have ballooned US debt.

#36 Howard on 11.26.18 at 4:39 pm

A particularly informative blog post today. I didn’t realize the pay differential was quite so massive between Canadian and American GM workers.

I have read that GM used to employ 40,000 people in the Oshawa area. If the first 37,5000 job cuts didn’t make much of a dent in housing or anything else in the area, I’m not sure this final tombstone will do so.

#37 Long Time Lurker on 11.26.18 at 4:48 pm

This post hit the nail on the head.

Canada is straight up uncompetitive comparing to our US counterpart. We only survived due to all the government protection.

#38 Dave on 11.26.18 at 4:50 pm

Everything in Canada’s job market is going down the toilet, with real estate now leading the pack.
So wouldnt this alone cause a recession?

#39 Doug t on 11.26.18 at 4:50 pm

#13 mogulrider

NAILED IT!!!! My sister in law and husband moved south several months ago and apparently your right – Americans aren’t concerned about trump cause the economy is working – CANADA is cooked – I don’t know how people think otherwise – we have never been able to move beyond the “hewers of wood drawers of water” mode and boy we are going to pay for it – buckle up it’s gonna get bumpy

RATM

#40 Chris on 11.26.18 at 4:57 pm

The population of Canada in 1950 was 13 million. Today it is over 34 million. The number of jobs created has not increased at this rate. Thanks to AI and robotics, there will fewer jobs available in the future and fewer need for people. The population has to decrease to have a better standard of living for everyone.

#41 Edna Burns on 11.26.18 at 5:00 pm

Garth: “Here is what $274,000 buys you..”
Edna: USD or CAD?

Seriously? – Garth

#42 Hawk on 11.26.18 at 5:03 pm

I am increasingly beginning to think that the election next year, is Canada’s last chance to avoid severe economic crisis and embark back on a slow road to recovery.

If Justin Trudeau is re-elected, ……down the tubes we go.

#43 Entrepreneur on 11.26.18 at 5:06 pm

“This is not like the mill shutting down in Merritt” and “middle class jobs…extinction stalks them” above article.

Actually mill after mill have shut down in BC. and mills were the jobs to go to for work. Now the raw logs are shipped over seas. Work for the middle class, gone and valuable taxpaying dollars within borders.

And BC had ferries built in Germany and Poland. Again loss of jobs for the middle class like steel workers and loss of valuable taxpaying dollars within border. Our tax dollars paid for workers in another country and we are still paying them for the job.

And agree with #9 Ezzy on “shouldn’t be as shocking to us as made out to be” and this has “been talk of GM…over a decade ago.” Like to know what is really going on behind the curtains.

#44 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 5:08 pm

@#7 Centurion on 11.26.18 at 3:03 pm
Definitely hit the nail on the head when you said we’re such a high-cost society – especially in real estate. Where the Hyundai Plant is located in Montgomery, AL I see many ranchers going for $50K – $200K US. This is where our greed gets us when I see houses here that cost such unstainable amounts.
________________________________
Greed?
nobody is being forced to buy a house or live in the GTA/YVR. Simply supply and demand.

#45 Dolce Vita on 11.26.18 at 5:10 pm

What we need is Gov leadership with a VISION to the next 30 years.

When I read GM (and undoubtedly the others) planning to switch production to electric propulsion, autonomous vehicles and ride-sharing (by 2020 estimates so far), it makes me wonder about the future of oil.

Still talk, but many developed nation jurisdictions world wide will be banning fossil fuel powered vehicles as early as 2020 to as late as 2050. MSM reports that it is talk for now but I believe if a replacement solution is in place, they will ban. Seems like GM and the others planning to deliver that solution.

That is bad for oil since:

-60% of world oil production consumed by the top 10 developed nations.

-Out of a 42 gal bbl of oil comes 20 gal. gasoline and 11 gal. as mostly diesel (74% of a bbl of oil is destined for fossil fuel propulsion).

There are many other uses for oil such as aviation fuel, lubricants and the list goes on and developing countries will more than likely be slow to switch over to electrification, I assume due to economics.

But it means that in the next few decades, and mind you it is still talk, 3/4 of a bbl of oil will have no market for it. FACT if GM and the others succeed in electrification, etc. (i.e., a viable and economic alternative to diesel and gasoline vehicle engines).

Then we will TRULY have a GLUT of world oil. Large supply, low demand…you do not need a fancy Economist chart to tell you what that will do to price. And look at what is happening to AB oil prices now, albeit artificially created by a lack of transportation to market foresight years ago.

Somebody is needed at the helm that will replace Cdn. hewing and drawing with something else in particular to offset much lower oil consumption that is likely to occur & much quicker than many of us think or just don’t want to think.

At the very least taxation should be focused on encouraging the above change that is likely to come so some of those new industries will reside in Canada and offset oil industry layoffs and wealth loss that will come.

—-AB born here and worked many years in that industry, but the writing is on the wall and it cannot be ignored.

#46 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 5:11 pm

@#34 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 4:36 pm
@#12 IHCTD9
“I more or less expect a T2 win, might even be another majority …
++++

I’d be very surprised.
“Selfie Sox” seems to be pushing all the wrong buttoms coast to coast.
I’d be amazed if he gets another majority.

Probably a minority.
The best thing that has happened has been ( Baby Harper) Scheer as his competition.
Everything else Sox has done seems to be annoying the hell out of just about everyone.
_____________________________
the vocal minority have their nickers in a knot over T2.
the rest of us not so much. sorry dude.

#47 Sebee on 11.26.18 at 5:14 pm

Garth,

More please. More comparison of houses here vs. houses elsewhere.

Show us the precious suburbia with 6 months of winter vs. warmer regions.

Let’s stop justifying the insanity. 800K in Oshawa!?
Here is 800K CAD in Phoenix!

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/7704-S-29th-Pl_Phoenix_AZ_85042_M17362-37675?view=qv

Keep your Oshawa real estate! Apparently we’re short on land around this 2nd biggest country on the planet.

If I’m going to be in the middle of no-where, I’d like to be in a warm place with space for a killer pool.

#48 Ronaldo on 11.26.18 at 5:15 pm

#10 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 3:10 pm
#1

Bitcoin is a scam perpetrated by hucksters
Its value is zero
——————————————————-
And here are a couple of em

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJlsz8TWy1s

#49 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 5:16 pm

@#40 Chris on 11.26.18 at 4:57 pm
The population of Canada in 1950 was 13 million. Today it is over 34 million. The number of jobs created has not increased at this rate. Thanks to AI and robotics, there will fewer jobs available in the future and fewer need for people. The population has to decrease to have a better standard of living for everyone.
______________________________
will be fewer jobs for the uneducated.
AI and robotics will still need coders/programmers/engineers/maintenance etc
Things are changing rapidly, adapt or die as they say

#50 Ronaldo on 11.26.18 at 5:19 pm

The huckster, Bitcoin Jesus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Zk9ioPFyg

#51 Phylis on 11.26.18 at 5:22 pm

#29… adding… only approx 2100 accepted, so there will be more that that estimate….

#52 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 5:25 pm

@#18 PeterfromCalgary on 11.26.18 at 3:34 pm
The nonsense about transitioning to electric cars is just anti fossil fuel spin. All the factories closed produced sedans including the partly electric Chevy Volt. Sedans are the most fuel efficient class of cars so the green washing of this decision is only to fool low information environmentalists (which is almost all environmentalists).
________________________________

lol, its happening Pete. take the blinders off.

#53 Feeling guilty on 11.26.18 at 5:28 pm

Probably made money today in my portfolio but feel for the people who will lose there job’s in in Oshawa …

#54 Smartalox on 11.26.18 at 5:32 pm

The Oshawa plant stayed open because the larger vehicles that it built had higher profit margins on each vehicle that helped to offset higher labour costs – not just the $46/h workers earned, but the $72/h that their labour cost the company, compared to labour costs as low as $50/h / worker (paid $16/h).

And it’s probably no coincidence the timing of this closure coincided with the Feds decision a few months ago to quietly write off the last $3 Billion in loans the federal government made to GM to keep it afloat 10 years ago, and that GM had no plan to repay.

USMCA, and the suddenly higher costs of steel and aluminium likely also contributed as well.

But in the end, the reason for this closure is the pursuit of profits.

It used to be legend that finding out how to save a buck or two on every car assembled added up to savings in the millions when applied to every car built.

But GM is a not a car company run by ‘car’ guys and girls anymore.

GM is now a company dominated by people with MBAs in marketing, who’ve wedded it to an unsustainable business model where vehicles can only be sold to customers by offering incentives like THOUSANDS of dollars off MSRP and ‘FREE GAS FOR A YEAR!’ – just to sell a single vehicle.

Under those conditions, it doesn’t matter if the CAW drops the cost of labour by $250 or $500 per vehicle, or if improving quality and efficiency shaves $150 off the cost of re-work.

You tighten your belt, and cut yourself an ever-smaller piece of the pie, only to watch the next guy in line take that pie and smack it into their own face, laugh like it’s all a big joke, and call it ‘building relationships’.

I’ll never buy a car from GM ever again.

#55 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 5:34 pm

@#12 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 3:16 pm

Another round of T2 means a lot of can kicking, question avoiding, more bad decisions that favour lobbying efforts over thousands of jobs and billions in revenues.

Seriously, get a plan in the works…
_____________________________________

Honestly, this sounds like every government at every level, ever lol.

but ya, definitely have a plan.
First part of your plan should be getting rid of debt asap.
bubye toys.

#56 Post on 11.26.18 at 5:47 pm

Trudeau says that help is coming for the 2500 displaced workers in Oshawa. I don’t recall him mentioning help for the 100,000+ workers in Alberta that have been laid off because of Alberta’s low oil prices.

Some may say well Alberta oil costs too much to produce, is dirty and no one wants it. Well the similar argument can be made of cars that nobody wants, that are poluting and costs way too much.

What did you think would happen when you make a snowboard instructor the PM?

You may not like his policies, but he was an academic, teacher and spent eight years as an MP before winning a national party leadership and a general election. How do you measure up? – Garth

#57 Ryan on 11.26.18 at 5:50 pm

Will this mean bump to higher property taxes for Durham Region, now that they are losing this commercial tax base?

#58 AK on 11.26.18 at 5:50 pm

#42 Hawk on 11.26.18 at 5:03 pm
“If Justin Trudeau is re-elected, ……down the tubes we go.”
=====================================
No chance of that happening. Liberals will be losing their party status as well.

#59 BobC on 11.26.18 at 5:53 pm

Exactly what we went through when the democrats passed NAFTA, KORUS etc. threw away our factories and our middle class.
With due respect I see it as just another step towards Canadian deplorable electing your own Trump.

#60 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 6:00 pm

To all of you playing the health care card let me explain how it really works.

In Canada you pay taxes up 55% or more depending on your income. Your taxes pay for a health care that covers basic health issues.

My taxes are far below and my business revenue and salary tripled.

If you get sick or need surgery your wait times can extend into years for simple surgeries. If you want surgery quickly you must leave Canada and get surgeries done somewhere else.

I can get surgery in days….

Most people who can afford it go to the US for surgery. Hmm…Imagine that.

I pay 2700 a month for my families health plan through my business.

My business has tripled its profits since moving here. My business tax bill has dropped 100’s of thousands a year.

I’ll gladly pay 36K a year a for a plan when my take home pay and my business profits go up 300-500%!!!

My net net take home far exceeds anything I could do in Canada….

After health care I am 100’s of thousands to the good.

So ask yourself this question, if you are professional your take home income explodes. Why do you think professionals are leaving Canada by the 1000’s!!!

Mine did….

So there – when your incomes triple the health care costs are nothing….

You are being fed a pile of BS by the socialists who want to keep you stupid…

You also have no beds in hospitals. So how is that working for your free health care..

If you are a professional you should consider the move.

BTW many have – the brain drain in Canada is from people who worked their butts off while most people refused to better themselves.

While most kids were smoking dope in high school I had three small businesses. I worked my butt off in University to better myself.

Then I have to pay 50% of my hard earned money to support a country of deadbeats? I think not

Socialism has failed you.. I get the lifestyle thing. But your politicians are stealing your wealth.

You asked….
There you go.

This whole meme of free health care is a farce. If you can’t get service what is the point.

How does this tie to the blog here. Bottom line – the wealth creators are leaving…

Add in real estate collapses and GM plant closings and you have the beginning of the end for our great country.

I decided I wasn’t gonna be a boiling frog..

#61 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 6:01 pm

@#46 KLNR
“the vocal minority have their nickers in a knot over T2.
the rest of us not so much. sorry dude.”
++++++

Lets have this “Trudeau will have a Majority in Parliament” conversation again in 12 months ( if Garth can stand us that long…)

#62 Dolce Vita on 11.26.18 at 6:05 pm

After this Garth, buonanotte.

New York City 1900 (Easter morning, Fifth Avenue):

https://i.imgur.com/kuOH7Sc.jpg

New York City 1918 (42nd Street):

https://i.imgur.com/th64eLD.jpg

Change in transportation comes a lot quicker than many of us would like.

Including my tired old Boomer SC 635 bhp Corvette that I used to own and ditched for trains, planes and loser cruiser’s (here in Italia, they make sense and cheaper/faster than in N. America, Frecciarossa 1000 train at 360 kph [max 400], super comfy, quiet…GRAZIE BOMBARDIER…what’s not to love about that?).

#63 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 6:08 pm

@#25 KLNR
Re electric cars”
“lol, its happening Pete. take the blinders off”
+++++
Well until the major car makers crank up production and have nice looking cars, reasonably priced…..”
We’ll just have to suffer through Elons 2 year backlog in delivery, his exorbitant prices and the lack of spare parts to repair “fender benders”

I’ll be waiting at least a decade or two until Charging stations have numerical parity with gas stations so I don’t have to fist fight with line jumpers at the charging station OR electric cars can all drive the same distance as a gas sucking polluter …..

I can dream cant I?

#64 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 6:11 pm

Doug

good for your sister-in-law and husband.

Its far better than what Canadians are being told.

The American people love their country and they love wealth creation and hard work…

I would truly love to come home. But not under the terms of the social contract where I pay for everyone else.

Here – you work or you suffer.
There is nothing wrong with work
Yet the socialists believe you must now give these people $2000 a month a living wage.

Who do the people think pays for that?

They do.

BTW Trump was elected here because the elites, socialists, sold out their country.

He will be gone soon enough and normalcy should reign again.

But again, who cares

Jobs matter
Wealth creation matters

Everything else is noise.

In nature you survive by doing something..
You die when you stand still or lay down.

For generations Canada was made by generations of hard working industrious people.

Somewhere, somehow, the easy road was taken..

#65 Terry on 11.26.18 at 6:17 pm

Canada is an overpriced, over regulated, over taxed socialist Liberal wasteland. Another example of waste is families getting tax credits etc… just for having kids!!!! Whats up with that! They don’t do that in the USA. Cut spending, cut handouts, eliminate tax credits & grants, shrink government, eliminate regulation red tape and rules and fire Gerald Butts and vote out Trudeau! That’s how you re-energize a failing country that is slowly witnessing capital flight in action.

#66 Tony on 11.26.18 at 6:19 pm

It won’t make one iota of difference for home prices in Oshawa.

#67 Bob Dog on 11.26.18 at 6:20 pm

When I worked at GM Oshawa writing software for the powerhouse PLCs in 1986, I got a lot of shit for driving my Honda Prelude into the parking lot. I wonder if Canadians will stop buying GM cars now and switch to Korean, Japanese cars.

Even without the plant shutdown you have to be nuts to buy GM. Its simply garbage which is why they went bankrupt 10 years ago.

That reminds me how much money did the POS government give GM in 2009 instead of investing in a Canadian made car.

#68 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 6:21 pm

57 Ryan

You have hitsomething few talk about.

Declining revenue is going to be crux of the demise of Canada,

Your assessments will go down and they will increase the property tax rate to reflect this loss of revenue.

So you will pay much much more in property taxes

Cities in Canada may very well default at some point.

I know in Nova Scotia, many small towns are amalgamating to try to cut costs.

It is part of the real estate crash few people discuss

Good question you have

#69 Buddy McBaine on 11.26.18 at 6:27 pm

Haven’t heard from the leader of the NDP or Green Party on this. Wouldn’t they be very happy that GM is planning on moving to more environmentally friendly vehicles? A win for climate change enthusiasts?

#70 NOTHING SURPRISES on 11.26.18 at 6:27 pm

Car Plant Wages.
$16/hr. in the States.
$46/hr. in Canada.

Teachers Salaries.
$50,000/yr. or less in the States.
$100,000+/yr. in Canada.

Ontario Hydro, Police Officers, Firefighters incomes.
Canada. $100,000 – $200,000/plus/yr.
State-side – Much Lower…….?

Public Service +++$$$ plus Golden Pensions Canada.
Public Service employees……….. U.S.A. ?

Lawyers, Dentists, Accountants +++$$ Canada and U.S.

Are we more efficient and progressive in Canada deserving these incomes?
Is it “Greed”?

How long can Canadian society maintain this status quo?

Answer?

#71 YYZer on 11.26.18 at 6:33 pm

The blatant bias against the ndp n liberal governments has begun to provide some sport…as i begin to read the topic of the day i start guessing… what pro PC spin is this going to lead to and what the anti liberal or ndp opinion will be!

#72 DON on 11.26.18 at 6:33 pm

#42 Hawk on 11.26.18 at 5:03 pm

I am increasingly beginning to think that the election next year, is Canada’s last chance to avoid severe economic crisis and embark back on a slow road to recovery.

If Justin Trudeau is re-elected, ……down the tubes we go.
*****************

I don’t think it will matter who is in charge.

There is an article making it’s way around twitter in relation to the GM Plant Closure: Years ago an automotive consultant (around bail out time?) stated that by 2019 GM production in O would be gone.

#73 reynolds531 on 11.26.18 at 6:42 pm

Brighter news today, maple leaf foods is bringing 1500 jobs to London. If we get ten more like this maybe our workforce participation rate will go up to Toronto’s.

#74 meslippery on 11.26.18 at 6:44 pm

#36 Howard on 11.26.18 at 4:39 pm

I have read that GM used to employ 40,000 people in the Oshawa area. If the first 37,5000 job cuts didn’t make much of a dent in housing or anything else in the area, I’m not sure this final tombstone will do so.
—————-
Wow when you put it that way..

#75 Dogman01 on 11.26.18 at 6:45 pm

45 Dolce Vita on 11.26.18 at 5:10 pm

OIL

The title of this Article should be:

Texas Is About to Create ALBERTA’s Worst Nightmare

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-21/opec-s-worst-nightmare-the-permian-is-about-to-pump-a-lot-more

…and I live in Calgary. Big trouble and no help from T2’s gang of environmental radicals.

#76 AB Boxster on 11.26.18 at 6:48 pm

Oh the Humanity!

2500 jobs lost in Ontario.

(50 times that number lost in Alberta, but hey whose counting?
I mean 2500 vs 125,000. Just a rounding error.)

But what to do, what to do?
Maybe a massive federal grant aka Bombardier?
Maybe increase the federal carbon tax. Yeah cuz taxing thing makes things cheaper. BC gets it.

Maybe the feds will just take more transfer payments from Alberta to give to the east so they can give it to GM.

That’s bound to buy a few votes in OntariOwe.

As the Liberal campaign slogan goes: “Screw the west, we’ll take the rest”

Now Unifor wants Canadian’s to boycott buying GM cars. It’s for Canada don’t you know.

Yet eastern Canada refuses to buy Alberta oil, preferring oil from Nigeria and Saudi Arabia.

What a load.

GM is my new favorite car now.

Ain’t Canada a great country?

#77 Dave on 11.26.18 at 6:53 pm

You neglect to mention that the taxpayers–you and I–bailed GM out, due to their massive incompetence and now they screw over the workers. It’s “market forces” when they have to lay people off, but then when they can’t manage a business or build quality products that people want they whine to the government for a bailout.

As for Oil, it was the Cons in Alberta who were stupid enough to encourage rabid growth without a plan while charging some of the lowest royalty rates in the developed world. There were reports back in the 90s warning the industry to refine their product and the Alberta Cons basically ignored them, so you can thank their shortsightedness for the mess we’re in and now they are trying to convince everyone that a few pipelines will magically transform the economy overnight.

#78 meslippery on 11.26.18 at 6:54 pm

Meanwhile global companies like GM pay Canadians more than Americans or Mexicans to do the same job because we’re a high-cost society.
_________________-

But they pay in CAD and don’t have the same health care costs.

Myth. – Garth

#79 MF on 11.26.18 at 6:55 pm

#13 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 3:18 pm
#17 crossbordershopper on 11.26.18 at 3:34 pm

…And where were you in 2008?

I’ll tell you where: circling the drain, only to be saved by a trillion dollar taxpayer funded government bail out that will come back to haunt us in time.

How quick we forget.

psst: nobody cares where you live.

MF

#80 jess on 11.26.18 at 6:57 pm

car market seems to be suffering is world wide

World’s largest car market suffers double-digit decline in sales – Nikkei …
https://asia.nikkei.com/…/World-s-largest-car-market-suffers-double-digit-decline-in-s…

Oct 13, 2018 – BEIJING — China’s new vehicle sales fell on the year in September for a third straight month, down 11.6% to 2394100 units, the China …
==================================
bought volvo geely and uk the taxis 2013 joint ventures
1986 made refrigerators.
Quickiepedia: Five things you might not know about Geely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evCgC-qdmXk

After a long and tiring search for a partner, the Geely Automobile Group in China decided to buy a 49.9% stake in Proton Holdings Berhad from DRM-Hicom. Who is this Geely company and what’s in it for Malaysians?

Elon Musk says Tesla was weeks from death

By Taylor Nicole Rogers, CNN Business
New York (CNN Business)Tesla CEO Elon Musk said his electric car company came “within single-digit weeks” of death this year as it struggled to meet production targets for its Model 3 sedan.
Musk made the comments about Tesla’s cash crunch on “Axios on HBO” on Sunday.

#81 Mean Gene on 11.26.18 at 6:57 pm

It’s interesting how as time goes by, the middle class is more educated with each generation, but yet their standard of living seems to go down.

When it comes to factories and robotics, they need technicians to support the machinery that does the mundane work, joe lunch bucket was bound to lose his gig at GM (Generous Motors) due to technological change.

#82 DON on 11.26.18 at 7:03 pm

#59 BobC on 11.26.18 at 5:53 pm

Exactly what we went through when the democrats passed NAFTA, KORUS etc. threw away our factories and our middle class.
With due respect I see it as just another step towards Canadian deplorable electing your own Trump.
*****

Rinse and Repeat

Trudeau Minority Gov sounds about right as things play out.

I wonder if the PM will promise election reform again?

#83 MF on 11.26.18 at 7:06 pm

#32 Tammy Smantal on 11.26.18 at 4:25 pm
What about all the GM bondholders and shareholders that got ripped off while Democrats and Obama were in power.

GM shares what a big joke.

-Shh we are having a blast Canada day on Greaterfool. Let’s ignore the fact that GM has a losing business model, poor management, and a terrible product so we can blame everything else instead. Let’s spew more emotional drivel.

Like I said earlier, the writing was on the wall long ago. 2008 was ten years ago. Honda/Toyota etc. started taking market share in the 80’s and 90’s. The energy crisis was in the 70’s and we are waking up now?

MF

#84 The Real Mark on 11.26.18 at 7:07 pm

“#40 Chris on 11.26.18 at 4:57 pm
The population of Canada in 1950 was 13 million. Today it is over 34 million. The number of jobs created has not increased at this rate. “

There’s no reason why we can’t have far more vibrant artistic and leisure industries. If there’s such a surplus of labour, why isn’t the Bank of Canada accommodating such by running low interest rate policy so that capital can flow to these sectors? If you remember back to the 1990s, the resource sector was in shambles (sound familiar?), so Canadians found other things to do. Companies like Livent added dramatically to the Canadian cultural experience. Bombardier converted taxpayer subsidies into a project that for the time revolutionized regional air travel. Nortel equipment “Made in Canada” at one time carried nearly all regional and international Internet traffic. Canadians sold nuclear power plants and designs overseas. Of course, none of these activities, in hindsight, were done at any particular gain, but they provided significant economic activity in Canada for Canadians when there was little else.

Today we have a Bank of Canada hell-bent on suppressing inflation dramatically beneath even its agreed-upon mandate. And enormous amounts high end technical labour underemployed or unemployed. The Residential RE industry will also be shedding enormous numbers of tradespeople imminently, and we saw the auto sector take a major hit in Canada recently due to oversupply and lack of global competitiveness.

Hopefully Poloz will come to his senses and drop the rates — rates which should have never been raised. But if he doesn’t, I’d support his removal for cause. His removal for not respecting the mandate which was given to the Bank of Canada, and that was, to maintain inflation at the 2% target. Which has been clearly missed by a long shot over the past decade, basically lining the pockets of fixed income investors and beating Canadian equity investors nearly to death. His removal for taking the BoC down the failed policy path of QE and purchasing bonds, rather than systemic policy through interest rate targeting which does not specifically favour an individual sector.

#85 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 7:09 pm

so many folks on here desperate to see Canada fail.
Sorry folks, not happening. Life is great here for most.
People in manufacturing should have seen this coming
20 years ago and adjusted accordingly.

#86 Common sense on 11.26.18 at 7:11 pm

Building inferior cars and blowimg millions in stock buy backs that only helped the execs instead of investing a few coins in R & D had NOTHING to do with any of the closures did it?

Ya blame it on employees wages….please.

#87 John Fahey on 11.26.18 at 7:21 pm

Shareholders uber alles.

#88 Yuus bin Haad on 11.26.18 at 7:22 pm

Here’s one you don’t want to miss: apparently Jerry and Buzz will be appearing at Buster Rhino’s on Thursday – this will be comedy gold!

#89 MF on 11.26.18 at 7:29 pm

#70 NOTHING SURPRISES on 11.26.18 at 6:27 pm

I never understood this type of person.

Are you saying that Teachers, Accountants, and Police Officers in general should make less money? Hmm…according to this poster we should strive to become bastions of safety like Mexico where Police Officers make crap and are open to bribery/corruption.

Saay..didn’t the CEO’s who produced a failed product and bankrupted our car companies get millions in taxpayer funded bail out money for failing? Do you, NOTHING SURPRISES, believe they deserved all that money?

Yeah right…

MF

#90 FullPictureDoug on 11.26.18 at 7:35 pm

Garth:

It seems that a lot of focus is put on the transportation cost differential but there is also the quality differential as well. A couple of years ago, the split seemed about 50/50 on those factors.

I understand the recent overproduction by the US, OPEC and Iran are contributing the Transportation costs contributing to an even higher differential.

Why aren’t we refining more of our own product? Here on the west coast, we ship crude to the States only to have it refined and shipped back to us as a higher quality product. Shouldn’t we be keeping some of that money in country?

#91 8102 on 11.26.18 at 7:37 pm

“Just days ago Ottawa refused to match the massive corporate tax cut which ignited the US economy a year ago. ”

You forgot to mention the 21 Trillion + Debt the US has that has grown because of this Tax Break

#92 DON on 11.26.18 at 7:37 pm

63 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 6:08 pm

@#25 KLNR
Re electric cars”
“lol, its happening Pete. take the blinders off”
+++++
Well until the major car makers crank up production and have nice looking cars, reasonably priced…..”
We’ll just have to suffer through Elons 2 year backlog in delivery, his exorbitant prices and the lack of spare parts to repair “fender benders”

I’ll be waiting at least a decade or two until Charging stations have numerical parity with gas stations so I don’t have to fist fight with line jumpers at the charging station OR electric cars can all drive the same distance as a gas sucking polluter …..

I can dream cant I?
*************

Nice!

I am with you on the timing of the electric car purchase.

Besides I am dreaming a day when the price of gas goes south of 40 cents so I can drive my gas guzzling collector on long road trips and punch the gas. Would be nice to throw down a $20 bill for a full tank of gas and still have 80 bitcoins left over for burgers and a beer.

#93 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 7:38 pm

@#82 DON on 11.26.18 at 7:03 p

Rinse and Repeat

Trudeau Minority Gov sounds about right as things play out.

I wonder if the PM will promise election reform again?

__________________________

hope he does. we desperately need it.

#94 MF on 11.26.18 at 7:38 pm

#76 AB Boxster on 11.26.18 at 6:48 pm

Hey dude almost everyone I ever speak to wants our oil to flow and Alberta to thrive.

Where on earth are you getting that we are anti western Canada?

Remember Ontario went all blue last provincial election, and the pipeline delay has a lot to do with provincial politics out west.

MF

#95 Drill Baby Drill on 11.26.18 at 7:39 pm

Well Ontario (GM shutdown) say hello to Alberta’s decades old quandry. We feel your pain about 2 or 3 times per 10 yrs. You guys take a major hit maybe once a decade.

Out here in the west (AB, SK) we realize that we will always be paying for the privilege of being part of Canada. We have a Prime minister who is so beyond being a leader nor a problem solver. The Feds and Ontario were both caught flat footed today.

#96 Ryan on 11.26.18 at 7:42 pm

RE 68 mogulrider

It drives me bananas. Lets just charge the people more, meanwhile the government bloat swells and swells. If the citizenry is tightening their belts the gov’t should be slashed to cut costs, and get back to basics.

#97 the Jaguar on 11.26.18 at 7:58 pm

A very pretty house and tree that one in Tennessee. The difference in price and wages are stark. Not all communities in the US are so blessed. If you doubt that give a listen to this podcast interview with Chris Hedges, author of ‘America, the Farewell Tour’.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/christopher-hedges-farewell-america-1.4911396
The chickens indeed come home to roost. It’s too bad we couldn’t support each other a little more in this country instead of undermining other provinces attempts to thrive. It won’t just be the auto industry that suffers. We think these decisions are made because ultimate ownership is south of the border, but why wouldn’t canadian owned business cast the same wistful eye south at cheaper labour where they have their own holdings. Banks have already shipped jobs overseas, outsourced locally, utilized technology from the US, etc. Who says it ends there? A call centre can be anywhere. And for those industries that need manufactured goods to support their business why can’t they buy them where their dollar goes furthest?
What never quite makes the big headlines, be it closing auto plants or oil and gas downturns, is how many people it takes down with it. Small to medium sized businesses…… To everyone in Oshawa, Ontario tonight. Alberta feels your pain.

#98 the Jaguar on 11.26.18 at 8:00 pm

The photo. There are no words. It must be a comfort for the owner to know that sweet pup Luna will be in such good company and in a loving environment.

#99 Cto on 11.26.18 at 8:02 pm

KLNR
So you’re very fond of Canada. And so am I.
There are so many things I love about this country.
Please help me understand.
Toronto is expanding very much right now and there are many jobs due to the real estate sector. This is great.
But really really where is underline money coming from.?
is there a sector of employment that I’m not aware of that is employing thousands of people within this region and paying high steady secure wages supporting people’s ability to pay back their real estate investments. ?
Anyone else, I would like to have my eyes open to this to have a better understanding.

#100 Ex-Cowtown on 11.26.18 at 8:02 pm

Electric cars work great for the few. The reason is that their true cost is masked and subsidized by the many who don’t have them. Kind of like one kid peeing in the swimming pool is not a huge issue; everyone doing it and it isn’t a swimming pool anymore it’s cess pool.

The math is easy; figure out how many Gj s are burned off for transport. These must be replaced by an equal amount of electrical capacity. We’ll ignore for the moment the transport losses etc. of electricity and assume that the two energy sources are interchangeable even though fossil fuels win out in transportability, convenience, ease of use, etc.

Purely on energy delivered, our electrical grid would need to be at least 3X larger than it is today. And that assumes that we can build 3X as many James Bay type hydro plants, 3X as many nuclear reactors, 3X as many coal fired thermal power plants.

Now, I know what you’re going to say, ” We can use wind and solar”. Uhhh….. not so much… as Ontario has clearly demonstrated wind and solar are a disaster for the grid. If you want to use wind and solar we may need 10X as much hydro, nuclear and fossil fuel to even out the intermittency of wind and solar.

And this is one of the reasons why GM packed it’s rags and left Oshawa; power costs are too high.

Kind of ironic isn’t it? GM left in large part due to crappy provincial energy policies that drove up energy costs.

And now GM wants to concentrate on building vehicles that will drive energy costs up into the stratosphere.

Makes perfect sense to Liberals. Anyone who can do math? Meh… not so much. No wonder Trudeau ignores Alberta; Albertan’s can do math and it pi$$es him off.

#101 meslippery on 11.26.18 at 8:02 pm

Can,t find a date on link but I remember people coming from all over Canada to apply for a job in Oshawa.
Good jobs like winning a lottery.
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/general-motors-of-canada-to-add-third-shift-at-oshawa-car-assembly-plant/1627/?folder=industry
This is how President Trump got elected.

#102 Merrit gary on 11.26.18 at 8:03 pm

Why the hell should Trudeau help out any gm employees they have 12 months to get organized. GM had a great run in Oshawa. All emloyees can thank government tax payers for bailing them out years back. Bail out should never of happened they should of went bankrupt like companies do when their broke. I work at a mill in merrit and if it closes am I suppose to protest? Do you think people in oshawa will care about a merrit mill closing? Remember this all you ontarions- bc, Alberta and Saskatchewan tax dollars support Ontario cause there broke- All 3 provinces should separate from Canada cause Ontario is a joke & shit hole. My coffee break is over I’m going to go back to grading my lumber. Year 26 for me and have saved Almost every dollar I made since moving here from Texas.
Merrit gary

#103 Support for those parachutes? on 11.26.18 at 8:03 pm

Should the 2500 plus G.M workers and other union represented employees lose there jobs going forward. The long service employees have defined pension benefits, so how hard will life be once you’re out of a job? G.M has a 30 years and out clause regardless of age for early retirement incentive. Never mind volunteer retirement bonus incentives for the most senior workers that giving up there jobs to workers with less seniority.

So….If G.M was almost bankrupt several years ago, how well funded are these defined benefit pension plans? This might be a bigger news story once the dust settles after the jobs are finished.

How is capitalism in Ontario working when all we do is bailout these money losing industries like Bombardier and then offer them tax incentives to keep the work in the sites of origin. Retooling, automating, lip service or whatever….clearly it isn’t the investors hoping for gains and dividends.

The house of cards might have more chinks in the armour when the SHTF! Question?? ….Who back stops the losses. How to you retrain workers that have been used to getting the best treatment of what work has to offer. Seriously….If they can’t put it together with the benefits and wages they’ve earned what are they going to do working for temp services and no pensions? Or living wages? Just a thought.

#104 Ustabe on 11.26.18 at 8:07 pm

22 years ago I walked into my haircut place. Knowing I’m a simple man with great compassion I was asked if I would submit to a cut from their newest hire, a young lady fresh out of hair school.

Now, today, she still cuts my hair. My two son’s hair. My wife’s hair.

She is a friend, shopping for a new vehicle and falls in love with a Chevy Traverse. $52,000.

Luckily I manage to become part of that convo before any signatures.

I have an acquaintance in Victoria who specializes in high end used vehicles. No poverty spec stuff on his lot, he seems to always find the best of Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Land Rover, etc.

I hook the two of them up, she now drives a full load, low km Defender for half what she was willing to pay for the GM product, his finance folks were able to get her almost 2 full percentage points lower and she has a 2 year third party bumper to bumper.

Every one is happy.

Except for a large portion of today’s commentators.

No other point, really, it was simply story time.
Carry on…

#105 WUL on 11.26.18 at 8:11 pm

The other day a commenter queried whether Canadian Natural Resources might be a good company in which to park some money with the current travails in the oil sands biz.

Yup. A perfect buy and hold strategy.

13 years ago – $35.30. Today – $33.59.

#106 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 8:12 pm

#55 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 5:34 pm
@#12 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 3:16 pm

Another round of T2 means a lot of can kicking, question avoiding, more bad decisions that favour lobbying efforts over thousands of jobs and billions in revenues.

Seriously, get a plan in the works…
_____________________________________

Honestly, this sounds like every government at every level, ever lol.

but ya, definitely have a plan.
First part of your plan should be getting rid of debt asap.
bubye toys
———

Aye, the debt and deficits won’t stop, no matter who is running the show. Maybe the size might change periodically, but like Ace said, 1 Billion per year for 319 consecutive years? Not a bloody chance in hell, and that’s just to nuke Ontario’s debt!

Gross all government debt this year will likely be around 1.4 Trillion dollars, or 1400 years worth of consecutive 1 billion dollar surpluses.

Right! Just forget it. It’s a one way street now, especially since we can forget about significantly growing the GDP, at least for the remainder of my working years.

#107 Crazyfox on 11.26.18 at 8:13 pm

Without a doubt, 25% steel and 10% aluminum tariffs have had a direct impact on Chev’s decision to close 7 plants. That’s right, not 1 in Canada but 7 in North America, 4 of which are in the U.S. . Has the future with electric cars about to dominate the landscape in 2 or 3 years loomed large in their decision to close plant? Absolutely.

Put it all together, a federal government that doesn’t have your back with tariffs, a transition into electric cars from fossil fuels and couple that with a global slowdown because of Trump trade wars and a stock market with nowhere to go but down as a consequence with rates on the rise, if you are Chev would you close plants now or do it later with billions lost in an economic downturn with no help coming from government? What would you do?

The decision to slap tariffs on steel and aluminum imports cost Ford 1 billion dollars (back in Sept. #’s) so far this year. Does that sound like a government that has the back of automakers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0ChK6MgTLQ

But. Too. Little. Too. Late. We was Trumped. – Garth

Yup. The U.S. included. Trillion dollar deficits will come back to haunt. Fueling widening wealth gaps between rich and poor will too. I can go on and on but lets just say that Trump isn’t good for America either. His demagoguery, his greed and corruption, his ideological narcissism within economics and foreign policy and the glaring fact that he’s a Putin puppet… at some point Putin will play his Trump card in any host of ways but mainly to weaken America internationally through trade and diplomacy (happening now), through regulations, through an exit from the WTO, the UN as much as possible, and NATO most likely when the U.S. is facing recession and finally war. Trump will do what he can do avoid defending Europe from Russian aggression while telling the world he’s doing everything possible do defend Europe and near the end of his term use war as a proxy to keep himself in power.

God, I hope I’m wrong but his overall behavior points to everything I just described.

Sadly, if I’m right, we think we have it bad, try being an American who didn’t vote for Trump or did and is educated beyond Fox news only to watch what unfolds.

Chev’s plant closure should remind us just how intertwined our future is with the U.S. . Love them or hate them, their future will determine to a large degree, our own. When there is a large void in government leadership, Canadians are going to feel it one way or another and I can’t help but think that we already have. Today is a reminder I fear, of more to come.

Back to reading now, good day all.

#108 Longterm on 11.26.18 at 8:14 pm

#60 mogulrider on 11.26.18 at 6:00 pm

Do you keep posting here because you are looking for validation of your choices? If you really have moved on from Canada, then move on.

#109 Longterm on 11.26.18 at 8:19 pm

#70 NOTHING SURPRISES on 11.26.18 at 6:27 pm

Teachers Salaries.
$50,000/yr. or less in the States.
$100,000+/yr. in Canada.

****

You’re just making stuff up

https://ett.ca/salary-grid-for-tdsb-elementary-teachers/

#110 David Prokop on 11.26.18 at 8:22 pm

GM wasted $14B for share buybacks over the past several years and now they’re cutting cost to save $6B?? WTF

#111 Bill Grable on 11.26.18 at 8:23 pm

The picture – I am echoing others, but want to mention that I am glad that beautiful Luna will have Family, when the time comes. I hope that the Family involved, realize that they have a ton of people that read Mr. Turner’s blog, thinking about them. Please accept my Prayers, as well.

#112 Willy H on 11.26.18 at 8:25 pm

“Meanwhile global companies like GM pay Canadians more than Americans or Mexicans to do the same job because we’re a high-cost society. Nowhere is that more evident than with real estate.”

This is the crux of the matter.

No Federal corporate tax cuts or low cost Ontario hydro is going to bring back these jobs.

We have priced ourselves out of foreign investment due to the high costs associated with living in Canada’s urban centres.

Our addiction to real estate has come back to bite us in the ass. It’s a colossal mis-allocation of economic resources driving away working capital investment that creates real lasting employment.

The GTA is a gridlocked soulless suburban sprawl, growing far too fast for infrastructure to possibly keep up.

No wonder Amazon never took T.O.s bid seriously.

#113 -=jwk=- on 11.26.18 at 8:29 pm

@#13 mogul
Its the economy stupid. Trump has created an exploding economy.

My families taxes dropped the first year 20%
This year 31% because of the tax breaks
That is money folks!!!!

———————–

Obama created the real economy. Trump borrowed 1.5T from your kids and their kids to pay for those tax breaks. And the Conservatives cheer! Debt is great! we love debt! Sad.

#114 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:31 pm

@#104 Ustabe on 11.26.18 at 8:07 pm

Every one is happy.

Except for a large portion of today’s commentators.

No other point, really, it was simply story time.
Carry on…
________________________________

I often come here to read the comments when i’m feeling a little too good about life.
good to be well balance lol.

#115 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 8:36 pm

#101 meslippery on 11.26.18 at 8:02 pm
Can,t find a date on link but I remember people coming from all over Canada to apply for a job in Oshawa.
Good jobs like winning a lottery.
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/general-motors-of-canada-to-add-third-shift-at-oshawa-car-assembly-plant/1627/?folder=industry
This is how President Trump got elected
——-

Around May 6, 2002.

CBC carried the same article (with date).

#116 Smelly on 11.26.18 at 8:38 pm

If housing prices should ever start to decline Trudeau will double or triple the immigration rates. This will help keep demand and prices up, and prevent a badly needed price adjustment that could make us more competitive. It will also boost jobs in new home construction.

Liberals operate in a very predictable fashion.

GM leaving won’t be felt, they’ll sell the land to a developer who will build some condos to house the new Canadians.

In a way we are helping to house the world. People will have to retrain and get new jobs, I imagine Trudeau will create a new branch of government, probably the ministry of transgender research or something to give people jobs.

BTW, this isn’t an anti-immigration rant, they are the ones keeping this country alive, and the fact that they want to leave their sub-tropical countries to come to this freezing place is amazing.

#117 Post on 11.26.18 at 8:39 pm

“You may not like his policies, but he was an academic, teacher and spent eight years as an MP before winning a national party leadership and a general election. How do you measure up? – Garth”
————————
For one thing, an “academic” is a real reach. He was a teacher for a short period of time. He was elected as an MP only because of his name, not his accomplishments.

It funny how you’re allowed to poke fun at his history (tats, teaching & toking) and policies but no one else can. You often warn your readers not to write anything personally critical, you could do the same Garth. But hey it’s your blog.

In other words, you’re a nobody. Thanks for confirming. – Garth

#118 Willy H on 11.26.18 at 8:40 pm

Trump’s tax cuts don’t look so rosy now after October’s stock market meltdown that has yet to recover after the mid-terms as so many analysts anticipated!

Furthermore, the fact that Trump took an historic hit in the mid-terms, even though the economy was doing relatively well (historically low unemployment) is truly astonishing. The Dem’s shifted the American electorate closer yet to the centre as independents and moderate Republicans balked at Trump’s chicanery.

It will be truly ironic for Trump to discover that his lust for publicity and his tweet-fetish, which have garnered him the Presidency, will now serve to turn the public spotlight on his finances. The House of Representatives will pull back the curtain on his fraudulent business empire and ultimately attempt to destroy his carefully crafted self-made billionaire myth!

Grab a six-pack and some popcorn. The best is yet to come.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

#119 Ken M. on 11.26.18 at 8:42 pm

#33 Smoking Man on 11.25.18 at 6:33 pm
If you own a home in Oshawa, you’re done.
GM leaving. So will many companies.
———————–

Gotta pay for the boomers pensions somehow.

#120 GMer on 11.26.18 at 8:43 pm

There are lot of brilliant minds posting here ,so I would like to ask you a question.
Why is the government will to help out ( financially?) these “poor” $40.00 An hour soon to be unemployed GM workers. Why are they so special? Friend of mine opened a coffee shop in GTA and after 2 years of being a business owner creating employment went under. Not only he didn’t get any government help but they went after him financially. Didn’t he work hard enough ?
Less hard than GM workers? Gimme a break.
I don’t know any one working at GM but know few people that worked for Bombardier. Another unionized paradise. $40.00 an hour boys and girls is for regular hour week. Then there was overtime. Then x 1.5 Saturday ($60.00 per hour) then x 2 Sunday ( $80.00 per hour) So friend of mine 24 years old making over 100k.
He worked hard must admit but that is because he was on the bottom of seniority list ( years working in the company) His words : once you are high on that list basically you can not get fired. You show up,don’t steal or beat up any body , you are set for life. That is union for you. No wonder the owners have enough of this stuff.

#121 Ryan on 11.26.18 at 8:43 pm

#100 Ex-Cowtown on 11.26.18 at 8:02 pm

“The math is easy; figure out how many Gj s are burned off for transport. These must be replaced by an equal amount of electrical capacity.”

The only problem is that you’re not factoring use work energy. Gasoline cars are very inefficient, so you need way more joules of energy to go a similar distance when compared to using an electric motor. Electric cars are 85-90% efficient vs. gasoline ~20%. So 80% of the joules burned in your combustion vehicle are wasted mostly as heat, and don’t contribute to getting you to your destination. Using electric motors you can drive your car the same distance on less joules, so you are sizing the electrical grid incorrectly, you wouldn’t use the energy used by combustion vehicles as a proxy to what an electric vehicles use.

Yes, gasoline is energy dense, but unfortunately combustion engines are’t anywhere near the efficiency of an electric motor.

#122 Robert Ash on 11.26.18 at 8:51 pm

This discussion does not mention the almost 5000 jobs, that Bombardier is proposing to eliminate. I believe of those 5000 world wide job lossess, approximately 3000 will be Canadian Jobs. Then we have the Oil Job Losses, of 100,000., we have Westfraser, and Canfor suggesting there will be more Sawmills, closed, ..
So we have to think about back to Basics, and electing only Business focused leaders, or we are in trouble. The Social Programs, have to take a back seat for a while… In my opinion, if the average person, cannot find a reasonable Private sector job.. then all the wishing in the world just won’t keep the ship afloat…

#123 Terry on 11.26.18 at 8:52 pm

There is a very small limited future for electric vehicles. Companies that commit too much of their business plan into this technology will eventually fail. Electric vehicles will not replace gas powered engines. I have included a link to the full blog posting I am quoting at the end of this posting.

“Lithium chemistry batteries can deliver current below 0C (freezing) but as temperature drops so does their current-delivery capacity. The same thing happens with the lead-acid battery in your car, by the way, which is one reason that a weak battery can’t start the car in sub-zero temperatures (the other is that the oil is thicker, so it’s harder to turn the engine over.)”

“At a certain point — very cold — the electrolyte in a battery freezes. For a lead-acid battery this depends on the state of charge; a nearly-discharged battery will freeze at a much higher temperature than a fully-charged one. In any case if a battery’s electrolyte freezes it is almost-invariably ruined immediately because the case ruptures when that happens, and even if the case doesn’t rupture the cathode and anode are severely damaged.”

“With lithium-chemistry batteries, however, there is a second problem which is far more-serious: They cannot be recharged below freezing temperatures without being destroyed and, even worse, rendered permanently and immediately dangerous. for electric vehicles”

“In other words you get a battery fire.”

The full blog posting can be read here.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=234594

#124 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:52 pm

@#99 Cto on 11.26.18 at 8:02 pm
KLNR
So you’re very fond of Canada. And so am I.
There are so many things I love about this country.
Please help me understand.
Toronto is expanding very much right now and there are many jobs due to the real estate sector. This is great.
But really really where is underline money coming from.?
is there a sector of employment that I’m not aware of that is employing thousands of people within this region and paying high steady secure wages supporting people’s ability to pay back their real estate investments. ?
Anyone else, I would like to have my eyes open to this to have a better understanding.
______________________________________
Most folks I know that are doing well are part of the creative class or the trades. If you want a secure wage you may want a public sector job :)

#125 WUL on 11.26.18 at 8:54 pm

#105 WUL on 11.26.18 at 8:11 pm

Ignore my comment. I really should stick to my knitting. I have no business whatsoever commenting on investing and have a track record to prove it. CNRL had stock splits in ’04, ’05 and ’10. So have at it and go long in CNRL.

Henceforth I will stick with my areas of expertise, namely:

1. The number of times Northern Dancer appears in the pedigrees of Kentucky Derby winners these days; and

2. Why the Oiler signing of Milan Lucic is one of the worst pro sports signings in history.

#126 Sean on 11.26.18 at 8:57 pm

IT workers get paid significantly less than their US counterparts, even though cost of living in Vancouver and Toronto is significantly higher than almost anywhere in the US. How does that sync with auto workers getting paid more? Is it possible that auto-workers in Canada aren’t paid more than their US counterparts for the reasons you outline?

#127 AM in MN on 11.26.18 at 8:59 pm

2500 jobs, there are more people than that making video games and cartoons in Vancouver.

Did some service work at the Oshawa plant in the mid-90’s. Never met so many people who made so much money and hated their jobs and lives. I’m surprised it lasted this long.

Plenty of opportunity for enterprising people to make money in knowledge and skilled based industries, with very low costs to communicate with the world. As long as 300,000 + people are moving to Canada every year, there will be an economy to service their needs. Quit moaning, start working.

#128 Asterix1 on 11.26.18 at 9:00 pm

Top jobs in Canada in 2020:

– Indigeneous consultants
– Enviromental consultants
– Gender parity consultant
– Endangered (add any animal) activists.
– Immigration/Refuge/Human rights lawyers
– Bankruptcy lawyers
– Mining equipment liquidator reps
– “Oil field” memorial plate makers.
– “Auto plants” reconversion to “Weed plants” experts
– Booze/Cigarettes/Drugs sales rep.

#129 Raging Ranter on 11.26.18 at 9:02 pm

@19 Chris, explain that to the millions (yes, millions) of expat Canucks living down there.

And ask yourself this? Why are the highways in New Hampshire – the lowest taxed jurisdiction in North America – in far better shape than the highways in Quebec – North America’s highest taxed jurisdiction? Are you sure they get nothing for their taxes?

You’re falling into that old Canadian trap where you believe that saying “yabbut healthcare” automatically excuses every mediocrity and every public policy failure in Canada. It doesn’t. Nobody said the US is perfect. But if we want to maintain our standard of living – and that includes our “free” healthcare – we need to compete head-on with the US. Right now, we’re not doing that. We’re losing, and that will hurt us all.

#130 NOTHING SURPRISES on 11.26.18 at 9:09 pm

#80 – MF

I never understood this type of person.

Are you saying that Teachers, Accountants, and Police Officers in general should make less money? Hmm…according to this poster we should strive to become bastions of safety like Mexico where Police Officers make crap and are open to bribery/corruption.

Saay..didn’t the CEO’s who produced a failed product and bankrupted our car companies get millions in taxpayer funded bail out money for failing? Do you, NOTHING SURPRISES, believe they deserved all that money?

Yeah right…
…………………………………………………………………………….
I wasn’t saying anything you quote -NOTHING SURPRISES

…………………………………………………………………………….
#109 Longterm

You’re just making stuff up.

Sorry ……….Wrong!
The two teachers in my family make these salaries along with the hundreds of other teachers in the school districts we live in and around. -NOTHING SURPRISES

#131 BlogDog123 on 11.26.18 at 9:13 pm

re: #70 NOTHING SURPRISES on 11.26.18 at 6:27 pm

Teachers Salaries.
$50,000/yr. or less in the States.
$100,000+/yr. in Canada.

****

You’re just making stuff up

https://ett.ca/salary-grid-for-tdsb-elementary-teachers/

—–

Always remember to think of total compensation: add the 11% or whatever it is to each salary, as that’s the employer contribution to the pension, so someone making $90,000 on the grid is closer to $100,000 if you add the employer contributions. Don’t forget the drug and dental coverage, how much of that is paid by the employer contributions.

#132 Drill Baby Drill on 11.26.18 at 9:14 pm

Autoworkers hourly wage

Oshawa $46 CAD + benefits

Kentucky $16 – 24 USD + benefits

Mexico $4 USD no benefits

All plants automated, why would you build in Canada.

#133 arfmoocat on 11.26.18 at 9:22 pm

GM sent 10 times the amount of workers pink slips in the U.S. today

#134 Edward Bear on 11.26.18 at 9:23 pm

#6 Seriously, illiteracy can indeed be helped. We all feel empathy for you. On the conspiracy portion; not so much.

#135 ImGonnaBeSick on 11.26.18 at 9:23 pm

Mr. Garth, could we go back to the 3 post rule please.. I’ve had my fill of MF telling us how no one cares about anyone’s posts and KLNR’s misplaced love for the Captain Crayons in Ottawa… What happened nonplussed? At least crowdedelevator, dolce and AB are still commenting.

#136 Axehead on 11.26.18 at 9:25 pm

Canada now has a “Detroit”.

#137 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 9:28 pm

#85 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 7:09 pm
so many folks on here desperate to see Canada fail.
Sorry folks, not happening. Life is great here for most.
People in manufacturing should have seen this coming
20 years ago and adjusted accordingly.

=================================

You are extremely brainwashed.

People who criticize here are getting sick of political correctness, bad policies and the direction our economy is taking – the easy road, making something from nothing (credit, housing), then beating the herd to deliver.

What exactly is wrong with that/wishing Canada to prosper?
Don’t you want to live in a better, truly prosperous place, free of liberal idiocies?

Most of us are brainwashed to an extreme degree to reject anything foreign and live with our mediocrity, including the maple leafs, the richest by far franchise in NHL that can’t win the Stanley Cup for 50 years and fans still go to see a pathetic band of losers year after year after year.

We live in a virtual society and very little of what we are told is truth due to media and education brainwashing. We eat crap, have a bad health care system (it is clearly not free, on the contrary, it is very expensive; what is good in it if you can’t use it due to shortage of beds and waiting times), surrounded by myths, led by mediocre ‘leaders’ who demand respects by virtue of office, not merit.

T2 is a joke backed by external globalist interests and corrupted media who can’t do a single thing on international scene without screwing up big time.

He is spending Canada’s political capital and reputation built by generation of hard working and honest people.

We used to be a great, then so-so place, now spinning fast towards the bottom of the economic toilet.

Let’s be realists and not go out naked for a sun bath:

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/weather-network-predicts-mixed-bag-085925535.html

#138 PBrasseur on 11.26.18 at 9:33 pm

Expect bad news from Chrysler sooner or later too, Canada auto sector is a dead man walking anyway!

But the worst news is that there is absolutely nothing to replace it.

The next decade should be entertaining to say the least.

#139 For those about to flop... on 11.26.18 at 9:43 pm

Recent sale report.

Here is another one to add to the recent trend of decent houses on Vancouver’s Westside going well below 2 million smackers.

The details…

3174 w 10th Ave, Vancouver.

Originally asking 1.79

Just sold for 1.68

Assessment 2.14

So they had a plan and executed it.

Price it to sell quickly and it did,carved 20% off assessment which is what you need to do to be competitive in the detached segment in a large part of town.

Totally liveable.

Not much selection, as I said last week, but there are a group of properties hovering around the 1.99 mark that will probably go for a similar number.

Both parties probably happy with this transaction…

M44BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/3174-west-10th-avenue

#140 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 11.26.18 at 9:46 pm

Willy H #112

“Our addiction to real estate has come back to bite us in the ass. It’s a colossal mis-allocation of economic resources driving away working capital investment that creates real lasting employment.

The GTA is a gridlocked soulless suburban sprawl, growing far too fast for infrastructure to possibly keep up. ”

Yep, bang on. The sad irony of that region is that the stupidity of its real estate bubble also drives away good jobs as we see today.

Not hard to imagine the Oshawa Mcmansion in today’s pic as a desolate and boarded up abandoned shack in the not too distant future.

The GTA is so over-rated, but mostly only by its delusional local boosters.

Get out of the 6 people, see how superior life in the rest of Canada truly is.

#141 Ustabe on 11.26.18 at 9:48 pm

Why the Oiler signing of Milan Lucic is one of the worst pro sports signings in history.

The Vancouver Canucks signing of Mark Messier has to make your list, WUL?

#142 Barb on 11.26.18 at 9:50 pm

#100 Ex-Cowtown:
“And this is one of the reasons why GM packed it’s rags and left Oshawa; power costs are too high. ”
———————————————————

Washington State’s industrial energy rates are 38% lower than other states. http://choosewashingtonstate.com/why-washington/our-strengths/low-cost-energy/

“The average industrial electricity rate in Wenatchee is 2.18¢/kWh. This average (industrial) electricity rate in Wenatchee is 47.22% less than the Washington average rate of 4.13¢/kWh. The average (industrial) electricity rate in Wenatchee is 67.32% less than the national average rate of 6.67¢/kWh.”

from: https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/washington/wenatchee/

and a 5 year old document:
https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2011/jun/01/cheapest-electricity-in-the-entire-country-but/

Energy costs in Canada are horrendous.
W.A.C. Bennett would roll over in his grave if he knew what residences, commercial, and industrial pay for power.

So…would GM reconsider if energy costs were reduced by 30 or 40 per cent? I expect not.

#143 saskatoon on 11.26.18 at 9:55 pm

garth,

c’mon.

we all know “high cost society” is a euphemism for “unions gone wild”

#144 Salinger Tootwanty on 11.26.18 at 9:56 pm

Let us take this moment to remind ourselves that hear are American jobs not Canadian ones. This is an AMERICAN company not a Canadian one folks.

If Canadians want jobs they should work for Nortel, BlackBerry or Bombardier. Oh wait, shoot, darn, hmmm.

Canada has free healthcare though!!!! Yay!!

#145 meslippery on 11.26.18 at 9:56 pm

I don’t know any one working at GM but know few people that worked for Bombardier. Another unionized paradise. $40.00 an hour boys and girls is for regular hour week. Then there was overtime. Then x 1.5 Saturday ($60.00 per hour) then x 2 Sunday ( $80.00 per hour) So friend of mine 24 years old making over 100k.
___________
Seems like a lot til you go to the Dentist with out insurance…$600.00 or more per hour.Parts the non gold filling.

#146 Shawn Allen on 11.26.18 at 9:56 pm

G.M Pension plans

#103 asked about GM pension plan

So….If G.M was almost bankrupt several years ago, how well funded are these defined benefit pension plans? This might be a bigger news story once the dust settles after the jobs are finished.

*******************************************
I beleive IO have this right… The old GMC General Motors Corporation went fully bankrupt and changed its name to Liquidation Motors Inc.

Normally, the pension plan would have taken a big hit because it was underfunded.

But as part of the deals for rescuing General Motors a brand new company General Motors Company was founded took on old GMC’s best assets but also its pension plan so there was no haircut to any pensioner.
I believe they did however shed much of the post-retirement health care plan which was a mostly a U.S. thing and was absolutely crippling.

And I imagine new GMC had to accept old GMC’s union pay scales for existing employees.

Burdening the new GMC with old GMC’s pension plan and union pay is probably a big part of the reason it still struggles.

#147 TurnerNation on 11.26.18 at 9:58 pm

Wouldn’t it be crazy if there is some plan which will severely curtail our ability of transport? Trapping us into cities? A new law overnight declaring current methods illegal?

– We saw cash for clunkers crush perfectly good cars.
– Overnight Volkswagen with its ultra efficient long range diesel cars was almost wiped out.
– In past few months GM and Ford announced severe decline in NA production and models.
Large trucks and large cars will stay. You know the ones most useful of police and military.

– Electric cars are in shortage, expensive, with relatively useless and few public charging stations.
– After over a decade of use and development and electric cars ‘only’ have a few hundred KM range if you can believe it. Less in cold weather.

– Closing of car dealerships a mainstay of small towns everywhere would be devastating new. Why everyone would have to migrate into the cities.

– When Ontariowe goes almost bankrupt the rural services will be cut. Medical and government another anchor in small towns.

Just watch it will get quite interesting into 2021
1001 new laws will be dropped against us.

Carbon taxes will further cripple travel.

#148 Ponzius Pilatus on 11.26.18 at 9:59 pm

DELETED

#149 TurnerNation on 11.26.18 at 10:03 pm

And tariffs againt industry including auto industries recently were introduced in USA also coincidentally within past few months. The trend is your friend.

#150 For those about to flop... on 11.26.18 at 10:03 pm

I probably edited out the best part of that post…

M44BC

Attention Hipsters and Cat Ladies!

***Do your Faceebook thing,share this post around.

Could help someone out down the line…

https://pinksnow103480648.wordpress.com/2018/11/26/recent-sale-report-53/

#151 Blacksheep on 11.26.18 at 10:04 pm

“You may not like his policies, but he was an academic, teacher and spent eight years as an MP before winning a national party leadership and a general election. How do you measure up? – Garth”
—————————-
The general population (non public figure) cannot to be measured by the same standard as an elected politician, sworn to be working for the benefit of society.

I voted for Trudeau, but to say I’m severely disappointed with his actions as prime minister, is an understatement.

As you have pointed out on your blog many times, Trudeau’s virtue signalling priorities, are not economically helping our country. I believe It’s is a fair to say, a significant % of the general public, believe he is doing a piss poor job of running the country, just read your blog comments.

Let’s be honest, there were many reason’s why he was elected to begin with, unfortunately this short (but relevant) list, in no way prepared him to run a country:

1) Hated conservatives
2) Father’s legacy
3) Mother’s looks
4) Wife’s SJW policies
5) Appeals to youth

To be publicly critical of a politicians actions, with out fear of repercussions, is a privilege of living in free society.

#152 TurnerNation on 11.26.18 at 10:05 pm

Here in Canada Greyhound bus lines shut down with further hinderance towards rural travel
Boy they really want us stuck in cities.

#153 Lobster Man on 11.26.18 at 10:06 pm

I still remember very well: “A Place to stay, and a Place to go……..ONTARIO…..”

That was more than 50 years ago, during EXPO 67: The Ontario Theme Song…..

Dogs: What have we done to this Great Province?

#154 Paul on 11.26.18 at 10:08 pm

Trudeau, just said he called G.M. And told them how disappointed he is. Wow go Justin

#155 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 10:09 pm

@#137 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 9:28 pm
#85 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 7:09 pm
so many folks on here desperate to see Canada fail.
Sorry folks, not happening. Life is great here for most.
People in manufacturing should have seen this coming
20 years ago and adjusted accordingly.

=================================

You are extremely brainwashed.

People who criticize here are getting sick of political correctness, bad policies and the direction our economy is taking – the easy road, making something from nothing (credit, housing), then beating the herd to deliver.

What exactly is wrong with that/wishing Canada to prosper?
Don’t you want to live in a better, truly prosperous place, free of liberal idiocies?

Most of us are brainwashed to an extreme degree to reject anything foreign and live with our mediocrity, including the maple leafs, the richest by far franchise in NHL that can’t win the Stanley Cup for 50 years and fans still go to see a pathetic band of losers year after year after year.

We live in a virtual society and very little of what we are told is truth due to media and education brainwashing. We eat crap, have a bad health care system (it is clearly not free, on the contrary, it is very expensive; what is good in it if you can’t use it due to shortage of beds and waiting times), surrounded by myths, led by mediocre ‘leaders’ who demand respects by virtue of office, not merit.

T2 is a joke backed by external globalist interests and corrupted media who can’t do a single thing on international scene without screwing up big time.

He is spending Canada’s political capital and reputation built by generation of hard working and honest people.

We used to be a great, then so-so place, now spinning fast towards the bottom of the economic toilet.

Let’s be realists and not go out naked for a sun bath:

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/weather-network-predicts-mixed-bag-085925535.html
_________________________________

lol the irony.
stan, your conspiracy theories aren’t helping your argument.

#156 AK on 11.26.18 at 10:11 pm

The last time I bought a GM product was a 1995 Pontiac Grand Prix.
That was the worst POS of a car that I have ever owned. Never again.

#157 Ponzius Pilatus on 11.26.18 at 10:13 pm

#123 Terry on 11.26.18 at 8:52 pm
There is a very small limited future for electric vehicles. Companies that commit too much of their business plan into this technology will eventually fail. Electric vehicles will not replace gas powered engines. I have included a link to the full blog posting I am quoting at the end of this posting.

“Lithium chemistry batteries can deliver current below 0C (freezing) but as temperature drops so does their current-delivery capacity. The same thing happens with the lead-acid battery in your car, by the way, which is one reason that a weak battery can’t start the car in sub-zero temperatures (the other is that the oil is thicker, so it’s harder to turn the engine over.)”

“At a certain point — very cold — the electrolyte in a battery freezes. For a lead-acid battery this depends on the state of charge; a nearly-discharged battery will freeze at a much higher temperature than a fully-charged one. In any case if a battery’s electrolyte freezes it is almost-invariably ruined immediately because the case ruptures when that happens, and even if the case doesn’t rupture the cathode and anode are severely damaged.”

“With lithium-chemistry batteries, however, there is a second problem which is far more-serious: They cannot be recharged below freezing temperatures without being destroyed and, even worse, rendered permanently and immediately dangerous. for electric vehicles”
“In other words you get a battery fire.”
The full blog posting can be read here.
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=234594
———–
That’s why you never see a Tesla on the Coquahalla in Winter.
Not gonna happen.

#158 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 10:14 pm

#63 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 6:08 pm
@#25 KLNR
Re electric cars”
“lol, its happening Pete. take the blinders off”
+++++
Well until the major car makers crank up production and have nice looking cars, reasonably priced…..”
We’ll just have to suffer through Elons 2 year backlog in delivery, his exorbitant prices and the lack of spare parts to repair “fender benders”

I’ll be waiting at least a decade or two until Charging stations have numerical parity with gas stations so I don’t have to fist fight with line jumpers at the charging station OR electric cars can all drive the same distance as a gas sucking polluter …..

I can dream cant I?
———

A loaded Tesla Model 3 is like 75k CAD, and we’ll soon be back to .25/kwhr once Wynne’s make the children pay “fair hydro plan” is over with – plus all the increases given to OPG in the meantime on top. Hydro in Ontario will never see the .05/kwhr charging costs some US States get.

A Tesla S costs the same to run as a car that gets 37 mpg at .25/kwhr real world driving, but not factoring in the -20 Canadian winters in the dark, plowing through slushy roads with the (electric) heater blasting. A Tesla S is over 100 grand CAD.

Tesla S tow rating is 0 lbs. That’s a killer for us non-urban folks who still have fun outdoors and have toys and gear to haul.

In a metropolis, sure. Won’t ever do more than short commutes, and hauling a human or two. Perfect for that.

Most Canadians don’t live in metropolises though, and they don’t buy one trick tin can commuter vehicles either. Canada’s 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th best selling vehicles for 2018 are all full sized honking domestic pickup trucks, and for good reason (IMHO).

In fact, out of the top ten best selling vehicles in Canada this year, only two are cars. Canadians just don’t like cars, and neither do Americans.

I’m 100% sure I won’t live to see electric sub-compacts even make a dent in the market out here in the glacier strewn wastelands of rural Ontario.

#159 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 10:15 pm

@#138 PBrasseur on 11.26.18 at 9:33 pm
Expect bad news from Chrysler sooner or later too, Canada auto sector is a dead man walking anyway!

But the worst news is that there is absolutely nothing to replace it.

The next decade should be entertaining to say the least.
______________________________

for sure, high paying manufacturing jobs are history but theres tons of opportunity out there in other sectors if you want it. The next decade will be exciting to say the least.

#160 Chemtrail Foghead on 11.26.18 at 10:22 pm

#152 TurnerNation on 11.26.18 at 10:05 pm

Here in Canada Greyhound bus lines shut down with further hinderance towards rural travel
Boy they really want us stuck in cities.
..

Maybe it’s a conspiracy!

#161 Smoking Man on 11.26.18 at 10:22 pm

If you want to know T2, next play is read this in its entirety.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/22267-un-agenda-2030-a-recipe-for-global-socialism

#162 Petawawa Renter on 11.26.18 at 10:30 pm

“You may not like his policies, but he was an academic, teacher and spent eight years as an MP before winning a national party leadership and a general election. How do you measure up? – Garth”

C’mon, Garth. How well do you’d think he’d have fared if his last name was ‘Smith’? Does being an MP grant one intelligence? A brief view of QP would suggest otherwise, from multiple parties.

That being said, Trudeau doesn’t bother me. The people who still think he’s doing a good job, and who intend to vote for him again do.

#163 Ex-Cowtown on 11.26.18 at 10:33 pm

#121 Ryan on 11.26.18 at 8:43 pm
#100 Ex-Cowtown on 11.26.18 at 8:02 pm

“The math is easy; figure out how many Gj s are burned off for transport. These must be replaced by an equal amount of electrical capacity.”

The only problem is that you’re not factoring use work energy. Gasoline cars are very inefficient, so you need way more joules of energy to go a similar distance when compared to using an electric motor. Electric cars are 85-90% efficient vs. gasoline ~20%. So 80% of the joules burned in your combustion vehicle are wasted mostly as heat, and don’t contribute to getting you to your destination. Using electric motors you can drive your car the same distance on less joules, so you are sizing the electrical grid incorrectly, you wouldn’t use the energy used by combustion vehicles as a proxy to what an electric vehicles use.

Yes, gasoline is energy dense, but unfortunately combustion engines are’t anywhere near the efficiency of an electric motor.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You’re committing the same mistake that all enviros do; they only look at a small part of the picture and not all of the pieces that go into creating the picture.

Personally, I’d love to be a member of a special interest group because math is easy; you only look at the numbers that impact the thing you care about. Being a realist requires looking at and accounting for things that you don’t care about and even things that you don’t like because someone else needs them badly.

To build generate, transport, and store the equivalent amount of electricity needed to displace fossil fuel powered vehicles requires an enormous amount of energy subsidy by… wait for it… fossil fuels. Add up all of the inputs and electricity for transport gets real ugly, real fast.

Now having said that, there are a few places in Canada where it might make sense as long as no one else is doing it; Vancouver and maybe a bit of the southern part of Vancouver Island. Commuting distances tend to be short and weather is mild. The other 99.9% of Canada would require that a car owner has two cars, an electric for short summer trips and gas/diesel for temperatures drop below freezing.

#164 Paul on 11.26.18 at 10:34 pm

16 Smelly on 11.26.18 at 8:38 pm
If housing prices should ever start to decline Trudeau will double or triple the immigration rates. This will help keep demand and prices up, and prevent a badly needed price adjustment that could make us more competitive. It will also boost jobs in new home construction.

Liberals operate in a very predictable fashion.

GM leaving won’t be felt, they’ll sell the land to a developer who will build some condos to house the new Canadians.

In a way we are helping to house the world. People will have to retrain and get new jobs, I imagine Trudeau will create a new branch of government, probably the ministry of transgender research or something to give people jobs.

BTW, this isn’t an anti-immigration rant, they are the ones keeping this country alive, and the fact that they want to leave their sub-tropical countries to come to this freezing place is amazing.
————————————————————————————————
I think that is a Rasist comment , “they come from sub-tropical countries” but may be they do.

#165 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 10:39 pm

@#109 Longshot

See a link , play the links

https://torontosun.com/2017/04/20/rise-of-the-100000-teacher/wcm/59333b07-0315-4c2c-a225-bfce10e4860c

#166 akashic record on 11.26.18 at 10:41 pm

“You may not like his policies, but he was an academic, teacher and spent eight years as an MP before winning a national party leadership and a general election. How do you measure up? – Garth”

Let’s not forget his socks. Biggest political innovation of the crown land. Nobody beats that. Nooobody.

#167 YVRTechGuy on 11.26.18 at 10:45 pm

Well Trumps tariffs are having an effect in my company – a leading hi-tech company in the Vancouver area. We design our kit in Canada, but manufacture (historically) in China. We just shut down most of our manufacturing in China due to Trumps’ tariffs. Guess where we’re moving those jobs to? Michigan? Florida? Ohio? Nope … Vietnam. Apparently Trumps’ tariffs don’t apply to Vietnam! So, our fancy hotshot lawyers have scrutinized the tariff legislation and found out a way to do the minimum amount of manufacturing in Vietnam, to avoid the tariffs. The move took 2 months, some of the work is still done in China. Not a single job created in the US, but we’re making Vietnam Great Again!

#168 Ian "Blog Dog" on 11.26.18 at 10:50 pm

Thank you so much for your excellent answer to my question! I really enjoy your writing and I look forward to every post. Kind of you to share your knowledge with us. (The pictures are cool too!)

#169 Lobster Man on 11.26.18 at 10:51 pm

#153:

Correction:

“A Place to STAND…..” My BAD!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNmfL9lKuTc

#170 Shawn Allen on 11.26.18 at 10:57 pm

EXPO ’67?

#153 Lobster Man on 11.26.18 at 10:06 pm
I still remember very well: “A Place to stay, and a Place to go……..ONTARIO…..”

That was more than 50 years ago, during EXPO 67: The Ontario Theme Song…..

******************************
Well I don’t remember the Ontario theme song but I did attend EXPO ’67 as a seven year old, we made the drive from Cape Breton. I vowed then to attend EXPO 2067. But it’s doubtful we will ever host another world exposition.

#171 Long-Time Lurker on 11.26.18 at 11:11 pm

#37 Long Time Lurker on 11.26.18 at 4:48 pm
This post hit the nail on the head.

Canada is straight up uncompetitive comparing to our US counterpart. We only survived due to all the government protection.

>That’s not me. Someone is impersonating me. I’ve been here for years. ww1 is that you? You need to put up a UFO post with that. Hee hee!

Hey, let me know if you like this Long Time Lurker versus me, Long-Time Lurker. If I get enough raspberries I’ll stop posting. Something interesting has come up anyway.

#172 john on 11.26.18 at 11:15 pm

GM autos offer the same kind of experience like shopping at Sears in the last few years before its demise.

#173 viorelli on 11.26.18 at 11:25 pm

The quality of life is slowly eroding just about everywhere in the developed world. The problem is not only in Canada, California, Sydney, Auckland, New York, etc. Look at what is happening in France, people are burning cars and getting the guillotine ready for Macron. London is the new crime capital, lots of robberies and assaults. There are too many people in the world, and everyone wants their slice of pie, but there is only so much pie to go around. Once the globalized automation kicks in you will see a lot more violence, despair, divorce, lawlessness, opioid addictions and suicides. People have got accustomed to a certain lifestyle and it is being taken away bit by bit, through increase in taxation, automation, outsourcing, municipal red tape, squashing the little businesses, government waste, idiotic neoliberal politics, etc. It is not if but when the overstretched zipper explodes and the real fight between the haves and the have nots begins, history does repeat itself over and over. The only way to fix it is to seal the borders, start producing your own goods and put your own people back to work (speaking of countries populations), eliminate the TFW’s, reduce the foreign student intake, prioritize your own youth for post secondary education which in turn will reduce competition at reduced wages and thus will improve the citizen’s standard of living (all our citizens, of all races). Sorry if I don’t fit the globalist’s agenda, but this is the only way to stop the spread of the rotting from within.

#174 DON on 11.26.18 at 11:30 pm

#151 Blacksheep on 11.26.18 at 10:04 pm

“You may not like his policies, but he was an academic, teacher and spent eight years as an MP before winning a national party leadership and a general election. How do you measure up? – Garth”
—————————-
The general population (non public figure) cannot to be measured by the same standard as an elected politician, sworn to be working for the benefit of society.

I voted for Trudeau, but to say I’m severely disappointed with his actions as prime minister, is an understatement.

As you have pointed out on your blog many times, Trudeau’s virtue signalling priorities, are not economically helping our country. I believe It’s is a fair to say, a significant % of the general public, believe he is doing a piss poor job of running the country, just read your blog comments.

Let’s be honest, there were many reason’s why he was elected to begin with, unfortunately this short (but relevant) list, in no way prepared him to run a country:

1) Hated conservatives
2) Father’s legacy
3) Mother’s looks
4) Wife’s SJW policies
5) Appeals to youth

To be publicly critical of a politicians actions, with out fear of repercussions, is a privilege of living in free society.
************
Nicely put!

Did I just wake up in a parallel universe.

#175 Axehead on 11.26.18 at 11:35 pm

#156 AK. Domestics, I’ve owned them all. With the exception of their trucks, all are horribly designed unreliable piles of turd. Chrysler is by FAR the worst, followed by GM and then Ford. All 3 corporations should have been allowed to have gone bankrupt.

#176 Leo Trollstoy on 11.26.18 at 11:47 pm

Canadian teacher salaries 3rd highest amount OECD

They’re well compensated for what they do

https://data.oecd.org/chart/5oHq

#177 TS on 11.27.18 at 12:09 am

@100 Ex Cowtown,

Love those guys that say the “math is easy” and then promptly spew out paragraphs of crazy conclusions wholly unsupported by even the slightest analytical effort.

Hint, ICE and EV efficiencies are not the same.

Also, you talk about having to invest in new power infrastructure like it is a bad thing. Geez investing in something cleaner, cheaper, and that creates new jobs while diversifying the economy must be a terrible plague to be avoided at all costs…

#178 Linda on 11.27.18 at 12:18 am

Best wishes to Anna & her family during this difficult time.

I have to say, I’m rather bewildered by what the GM workers hope to achieve by walking off the job. I doubt GM will reverse the plant closing, so all they have accomplished is to increase the amount of income lost.

I also wonder whether the plant closing would have occurred regardless of protectionist policies. Earlier this year I read some articles suggesting that the auto industry as we know it today may be completely transformed within 5 years. While vehicles are still expected to be produced, the expectation is that gas vehicles will largely be replaced by hybrid or electric vehicles. If so, the low O&G prices of today may be around for longer than expected. Another prediction was the rise of the self driving vehicle & some speculation on how that might impact vehicle ownership. Could be that GM is seeing the writing on the wall & is making moves to position themselves to weather lower consumer demand as well as ceasing the manufacture of what may well be obsolete technology. The higher costs of manufacturing in Canada simply pinpointed where to begin reducing costs. Everyone loves a bargain, until the price of it turns out to be job loss because the folks next door can do it for less. Ouch.

#179 RG on 11.27.18 at 12:21 am

Well, at least we got gender parity. Female GM workers will be just as laid off as male GM workers.

#180 SmarterSquirrel on 11.27.18 at 12:21 am

The days of jobs that last forever are gone. We live in a time of uncertain employment. Even promised defined benefit pensions can disappear. In these uncertain times it becomes that much more important to live below your means, to save and invest and create a passive income.

I started building a passive income after speaking with my dad about how I have no pension (he is a retired teacher with a pension… https://smartersquirrel.com/about) And a few years into building my passive income, my employer of ten years decided it was time for me to move on. Uncertain employment reared it’s ugly head. Fortunately, the passive income portfolio I had built softened the blow of losing my job.

If you’re living paycheque to paycheque and think you’ll be employed forever… watchout for unemployment to rear it’s ugly head at anytime without warning. Better you plan now for a way to protect yourself for that eventual day when your employer realizes you’re obsolete or replaceable. If they never do, consider yourself lucky, and one day you can decide that they are no longer needed.

#181 PO'ed in AB on 11.27.18 at 12:46 am

Hey, Dave @ #77 Dave on 11.26.18 at 6:53 pm;

We “save” money buying the finished product from the USA, shipped down a pipeline, too. Safe, cheaper than we can produce the stuff, as the US has economies of scale vs our rinky dink sized refineries. For example: Strahcona refinery in Fort Saskatchewan carries the load for local use, clear to the border of Ontario, almot to T-Bay, because it’s already paid for. The excess demand is supplied from the USA, where it is needed. It would not benefit us to take the time, money & effort to try & build a competitive refinery to supplant US production. You’d go broke doing so.

Jerry Diaz would love for you to waste money to that end, but his competition is lower, union wages in the USA. We can’t afford UNIFOR anywhere in Canada. We’ve priced ourselves out of the North American labor market, add in carbon taxes, over-regulated businesses and guess what, we can’t seel stuff to anyone but ourselves. Too expnsivem, pal & that’s the bottom line North of 49. = recession.

#182 NoName on 11.27.18 at 12:48 am

#159 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 10:15 pm
@#138 PBrasseur on 11.26.18 at 9:33 pm
Expect bad news from Chrysler sooner or later too, Canada auto sector is a dead man walking anyway!

But the worst news is that there is absolutely nothing to replace it.

The next decade should be entertaining to say the least.
______________________________

for sure, high paying manufacturing jobs are history but theres tons of opportunity out there in other sectors if you want it. The next decade will be exciting to say the least.

For my 20+ yrs in Canada i always worked for manufacturing one way or other. Those tons of opportunities that you know I would like you to share it with me, i need at least another 20 yrs of working. I AM ALL EARS.

#183 Smartalox on 11.27.18 at 1:10 am

A Question for all those that fault Canada’s Prime Minister for GM’s decision to close the Oshawa plant:

GM is also closing FOUR more plants in Ohio and Michigan. Are those Trudeau’s fault too?

#184 Smoking Man on 11.27.18 at 1:27 am

The seasons of life

Jan to March.
You’re a kid, Happy as shit, no responsibility, live for ridding your bike down suicide hill in the high park, you and your buddies high fiving each other.

March 20th to June 20th.
Kids fitting in. Hockey, sports and whatever.

June 20th to Sept 20th, that is where I am now. Did my job, Buried my folks, give the kids a goal. they are on there own now. Experience life. The up and downs are what memories are made of.

Sept 20th, to December 30th.
That’s where you should blow every last cent you made You don’t know the end date is but you know it’s close.

If you go beyond this, you’re an idiot.

#185 For those about to flop... on 11.27.18 at 1:53 am

Recent sale report.

Let’s switch from West to East and see what’s happening at the bottom of that market.

The details…

720 Woodland Dr,Vancouver.

Originally asking 998k

Just sold for 895k

Assessment 1.16

So yet again closing in on 25% less than assessed.

There is no price pressure, even at the bottom,most of these sales on both sides of the city can’t even get full ask,and this is on the bottom rung of each side.

Could well be the best location of all the ones that have gone for less than a million in East Van this year.

Have a few buddies over,get them liquored up and then offer someone $50 to cut down that power pole.

You might have a few cold,dark winter nights but think of how your view will improve.

It’s Vancouver, we only worry about looks…

M44BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/720-woodland-drive

#186 TalkingPie on 11.27.18 at 2:06 am

Regarding “gender parity:” if I had to choose one thing I’ve learned about the female gender, it’s that what women say they want is often not what they really want. Gender parity falls firmly in that category.

Find me women who really want to be treated like men. You won’t find many. Do they want the benefits afforded to men while retaining the benefits afforded to women? Sure. But that’s not realistic or fair.

Men and women are not the same. Never were; aren’t now, and I see that as a good thing. Of equal value? Absolutely, and both genders deserve respect for what they contribute to society. But we’re not the same. Any man who pretends that they are is in for a rough time – at least the ones who weren’t born with dreamy looks, a huge trust fund, and a father’s prime minister legacy to isolate them from the world’s harsh reality.

Regarding unions: I’m in one. They protect workers who shouldn’t be protected, but they also push back against companies who would gladly exploit their employees given the chance. I see how things are for my company’s non-unionized employees, and I see my union push back on some of the stuff management tries. Unions are by no means perfect, but giving the owners of capital unfettered power will result in the last 10 minutes of a Monopoly game. Companies tend to end up with the unions they deserve, and the second you get companies who feel that their executives are worth literally hundreds of times as much as their front-line workers, they lose the moral authority to complain about unions.

#187 Tamsen on 11.27.18 at 2:57 am

“Renter in Surrey on 11.26.18 at 4:20 pm

Who cares about auto or oil industry?

Fentanyl is new driver of Canadian economy (at least in BC).

Secret police study finds crime networks could have laundered over $1B through Vancouver homes in 2016.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4658157/fentanyl-vancouver-real-estate-billion-money-laundering-police-study/

So 10-fold difference between Tennessee and BC RE prices might be somehow related to this.”

Agreed. My comments on GF are not being posted for whatever reason. For what it’s worth, a well-known developer told me the same thing about the rampant money laundering that’s been going on for years in Greater Vancouver …

#188 Terry C on 11.27.18 at 3:10 am

“You may not like his policies, but he was an academic, teacher and spent eight years as an MP before winning a national party leadership and a general election. How do you measure up? – Garth”

Do you honestly believe that had his name been anything else but Trudeau he would be anywhere close to where he is today?

#189 Jason on 11.27.18 at 3:14 am

Long time reader, first time commenter.

I had to comment… I GREW UP IN MERRITT! Excellent reference Garth, the remaining mills are the lifeblood of Merritt.

Thanks for this blog Garth. :)

#190 A J on 11.27.18 at 3:34 am

We didn’t get “Trumped”. They are closing American plants too.

“The Detroit automaker said plants in Ohio, Michigan, Maryland, and Ontario will be “unallocated” in 2019 and it will cease operations at two additional plants outside of North America by the end of next year. It will also wind down operations at propulsion plants in White Marsh, Maryland, and Warren, Michigan.”

#191 Jacky Dangerous on 11.27.18 at 4:58 am

DELETED

#192 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:27 am

KlNR
Most folks I know that are doing well are part of the creative class or the trades. If you want a secure wage you may want a public sector job :)
Thx,… I’m not looking for a job. ( I work in the engineering department at sector ( ;
I’m looking for answers and what the drivers for this economy are and you have basically told me that it’s trades,…. Related to building houses in condos?
And public sector paid by the taxpayer.
What is holding up the real estate economy!? Help me figure this out.

#193 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:40 am

Who’s buying the houses and condos and what job do they have???

#194 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:47 am

What is the GTA’s primary industry that isn’t related to real estate and is non-taxpayer assisted such as Healthcare or universities or municipals.
What are the industries that pay the masses.?

#195 Frank The Tank on 11.27.18 at 6:23 am

Transitions indeed. The auto industry is in the midst of a metamorphosis not seen in a century.

The truth is, young people don’t fancy cars or car ownership. It’s all about ride sharing.

My heart goes out to the men and women of Oshawa. I hope they will land on their feet and continue to raise their families and contribute to our great country.

#196 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 6:25 am

#192 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:27 am
KlNR
Most folks I know that are doing well are part of the creative class or the trades. If you want a secure wage you may want a public sector job :)
Thx,… I’m not looking for a job. ( I work in the engineering department at sector ( ;
I’m looking for answers and what the drivers for this economy are and you have basically told me that it’s trades,…. Related to building houses in condos?
And public sector paid by the taxpayer.
What is holding up the real estate economy!? Help me figure this out.

Excellent questions. Expect no answers as there really aren’t jobs paid enough to justify even 40 % of current GTA/Vancouver prices.

It is all clearly a huge credit bubble/the biggest ever in history of housing/ that is about to implode.

KlNR is one of those who will tell you in general terms how everything is well and rosy, and how more importantly You have to pay more and more for the privilege to live in such sophisticated and advanced society

If you disagree seeing through the charade and the lies you become hater, loser, etc.

#197 Raging Ranter on 11.27.18 at 6:30 am

©#183 Smatalox, according to the Toronto Star, it’s Doug Ford’s fault.

#198 Howard on 11.27.18 at 6:56 am

https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/housing-lottery-with-501-odds-reveals-dark-side-of-toronto-boom

“We’ve reached a point now where given the amount of people, industries we’re attracting, we are already becoming terribly unaffordable for everyone,” said Richard Florida, a professor at the University of Toronto and author of several books on urban issues. “We’re at a crisis and we don’t even realize it: Our transit, traffic problem and housing problem are urgent matters.”

#199 MF on 11.27.18 at 6:56 am

#192 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:27 am

2 second google:

Finance, media, technology, tourism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Toronto#Growth

Yes there is RE, trades, services and everything in between as well.

from the article, first paragraph:

“The economy of Toronto is the largest contributor to the Canadian economy, at 20% of national GDP, and an important economic hub of the world.[1] Toronto is a commercial, distribution, financial and industrial centre. It is the banking and stock exchange centre of Canada, and is the country’s primary wholesale and distribution point. Ontario’s wealth of raw materials and hydroelectric power have made Toronto a primary centre of industry. The metropolitan area of Greater Toronto produces more than half of Canada’s manufactured goods. The economy of Toronto is growing rapidly.”

MF

#200 Steve from ottawa on 11.27.18 at 7:08 am

When the government controls the economy by doing the following:
– paying public servants more than private sector.
– buying/saving companies
– taxiing to an extreme
It is not good, we cannot all work for the government!
Our economy is really screwed when an assembly guy makes more than most engineers, when teachers makes more than parents of the kids.
We are on the road to serfdom, but it is a highway

#201 MF on 11.27.18 at 7:15 am

#192 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:27 am

“And public sector paid by the taxpayer.”

-Actually that’s more of the case in small towns that have large sprawling government offices because the RE is cheaper, like Sudbury as an example. Government employees make up a large portion of the workforce in these places.

What you are hinting at is incorrect.

And if you still “can’t understand why GTA RE is so expensive”, just drive around the GTA on any given day and look out your window for an exciting clue.

Even ask a few of the millions of people that make the GTA home what kind of work they do and where they live for further clues to your puzzle.

MF

#202 Tater on 11.27.18 at 7:41 am

#25 JB on 11.26.18 at 4:04 pm
#22 Ernesto on 11.26.18 at 3:49 pm

#mogulrider you are 100% correct
…………………………………………………….
Except for the part about “Do not ever get sick in the United States unless you have the absolute best medical coverage ever”. Good coverage is expensive. If your half ass insured it can even bankrupt you in a New York minute! When the bills start rolling in you will wish you had died.

Canadian myth. Most Americans are covered. – Garth
—————————————————————-

Sure, paying 1k per month with a 25k deductible.

The average family health care premium in the US is $10,000 a year and the average deductible is $4,300. However, most Americans with jobs are covered by employer-sponsored plans. One advantage: no 12-month wait times to see a specialist, get an MRI or schedule surgery, as is the case in many parts of Canada. Plus world-class clinics treating a growing number of Canadians. Oh yeah, and less income tax. So don’t fall for the myth our system is necessarily superior. – Garth

#203 Howard on 11.27.18 at 7:43 am

DELETED

#204 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 7:50 am

@#187 Tamsen. and #192 Cto
“Secret police study finds crime networks could have laundered over $1B through Vancouver homes in 2016.”

and

“What is holding up the real estate economy!?

+++++

That would buy about 1000 empty homes worth 1 million in the Lower Brainland.
Who bought the other 9000 empty homes……?

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/empty-homes-tax-city-of-vancouver-releases-heat-map-showing-clusters-of-undeclared-properties

Apparently indebted Millenials and their house horny Moms……

#205 Tater on 11.27.18 at 7:59 am

Amazing to see how many people who claim to have left Canada hang around here.

#206 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 8:03 am

@#156 Lobster Man and #167 Shawn Allen
“Well I don’t remember the Ontario theme song but I did attend EXPO ’67 ”

and

“it’s doubtful we will ever host another world exposition.”

+++++

Perhaps you didn’t remember the theme song because Expo67 was in Montreal, Quebec?

Oh and I also attended Expo67 as a tike and Expo86 in Vancouver as a beer swilling lout ( the German Beer garden was a big hit with the louts…).
I’m thinking Expo’s ( like Owe-limp-icks) will be crushed by the weight of security costs in the billions and taxpayers fed up with the corruption that goes with the construction cost overruns of seemly every megaproject everywhere these days……

#207 PBrasseur on 11.27.18 at 8:12 am

#159 KLNR

@#138 PBrasseur on 11.26.18 at 9:33 pm
Expect bad news from Chrysler sooner or later too, Canada auto sector is a dead man walking anyway!

But the worst news is that there is absolutely nothing to replace it.

The next decade should be entertaining to say the least.
______________________________

for sure, high paying manufacturing jobs are history but theres tons of opportunity out there in other sectors if you want it. The next decade will be exciting to say the least.

Opportunity comes from investment, outside of housing private investment is dead in this country. At the same time governments and consumers are suffocated by debt.

#208 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 8:13 am

@#202 Tater

Newsflash, we already have expensive public/private healthcare….its called your dentist….
Assuming, of course, you actually care about your teef.

And your pets?
Take em to a vet for an Xray, pills, MRI, surgery …. and you wont think twice about paying thousands.

If you have cancer in BC you may wait up to 6 months for an appointment with a specialist…..good luck with your “free healthcare”.

Private clinics in BC just won an injunction against the Dippers in Govt ….

https://www.nsnews.com/private-medical-clinics-win-injunction-against-b-c-law-that-banned-them-1.23508198

If “rich” people want to Pay big bucks to “jump the line” so be it.
It just removes someone off the waiting list that everyone else sits in.
And before you get all high and mighty.
Do you really think people like the Prime Minister or the Premier or the Mayor actually wait like everyone else? Give your head a shake.

#209 When Will They Rates? on 11.27.18 at 8:22 am

#204 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 7:50 am

@#187 Tamsen. and #192 Cto
“Secret police study finds crime networks could have laundered over $1B through Vancouver homes in 2016.”

and

“What is holding up the real estate economy!?

+++++

That would buy about 1000 empty homes worth 1 million in the Lower Brainland.
Who bought the other 9000 empty homes……?

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/empty-homes-tax-city-of-vancouver-releases-heat-map-showing-clusters-of-undeclared-properties

Apparently indebted Millenials and their house horny Moms……
—————————-

But that’s $1B in 2016 alone… They estimate it’s $5B since 2012… That’s a lot of cheddar.

The irony… These drug kingpins are killing Vancouverites with fentanyl while plowing the profits into local RE, driving prices out of reach for the very same people they’re killing! That’s a twofer!

#210 baloney Sandwitch on 11.27.18 at 8:40 am

Lot of “fair weather” Canadians here today in the steerage section spouting their love for the country.

#211 Radovan on 11.27.18 at 8:42 am

hi,
I was just wondering about $46 per hour for GM workers.
How did you get that number ?
I don’t think that is an accurate number.
I work at Ford Oakville Assembly Complex as a skilled trade and don’t make nearly that much.
Production people with high seniority make roughly 30% less than what your number is.
Newly hired make $20 per hours and there is deduction for pension, so they make even less.

#212 Wrk.dover on 11.27.18 at 8:45 am

Canadaaaa, one little, two little, three little Canadians
we love you….

what song was that?

#213 tallpop on 11.27.18 at 9:00 am

Earlier commenter conveniently provided a table for Elementary School teachers showing that they only earned $94k per year, not $100k as claimed.
Well…
1- Teachers only work 9 months a year. Tops. (Take out the Christmas holidays, PD days, summer holidays etc). If they worked summer school, they would be earning well over 100k.
2- Most teachers are at the highest level, as they tend to be quite old. Newer teachers have to wait to get on the lists by supply teaching, etc.
3- Secondary School teachers earn more than Elementary School teachers.
4- Great job, if you can get it. Only here is it so competitive to get into teaching at university!

#214 Johnny Canada on 11.27.18 at 9:26 am

I have zero sympathy for the union members who lined up to vote Liberal and have now lost their jobs, zero. You voted Wynne, Trudeau? You got your payback. While you propped up the worst collection of Canada hating manipulators in Canadian history, your union bosses were shafting every other Canadian. Well, Boyz and girls, how’s it feel now that you got what Alberta workers got? Revenge is seved cold fellas, hope you list your house and family, hope the bikers get your seventeen years old stripping at the clubhouse. This is what you get for voting Liberal. Welcome to Canada boys, the real Canada, the open sewer the rest if us have to live in.

#215 Fish on 11.27.18 at 9:34 am

CIBC to close branches in Longlac, Terrace Bay, Ont.

Longlac branch to close in February; Terrace Bay in August

Jeff Walters · CBC News · Posted: Nov 26, 2018 7:00 AM ET | Last Updated: November 26

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/cibc-branch-closure-longlac-terrace-bay-1.4917949

#216 Smartalox on 11.27.18 at 9:37 am

@Raging Ranter #197:

Ha! But I was surprised by Doug Ford’s quick and blunt assessment: “They’re gone, folks! It’s a done deal” I guess that’s what the people of Ontario can count on when they elect a business ‘owner’ as premier?

#217 Ace Goodheart on 11.27.18 at 9:52 am

RE: “For example, this is what $800,000 gets you in that community. Now you know why GM shares are rising.”

That looks like one of the new builds in North Oshawa.

GM workers for the most part do not tend to live in North Oshawa. They live in the South. Where houses can be had for much less. Like this one:

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/19988987/4-bedroom-single-family-house-187-annis-st-oshawa-lakeview

And this one:

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20142382/3-bedroom-single-family-house-971-glen-st-oshawa-lakeview

South Oshawa has cheap real estate.

It also has a huge Ontario Housing development down by the lake, which keeps house prices in check throughout the entire lakeview area.

It’s actually a very pretty area, you can for the most part walk or bike to Lake Ontario, there are lots of parks and trails. But for some reason, the rich folk all live up North, in houses like the one you posted on your blog.

$46.00 per hour unionized GM workers are not “rich folk” and they don’t live in $800,000 houses.

Back that statement up. Or we might assume you fabricate facts. – Garth

#218 KLNR on 11.27.18 at 9:54 am

@#214 Johnny Canada on 11.27.18 at 9:26 am
I have zero sympathy for the union members who lined up to vote Liberal and have now lost their jobs, zero. You voted Wynne, Trudeau? You got your payback. While you propped up the worst collection of Canada hating manipulators in Canadian history, your union bosses were shafting every other Canadian. Well, Boyz and girls, how’s it feel now that you got what Alberta workers got? Revenge is seved cold fellas, hope you list your house and family, hope the bikers get your seventeen years old stripping at the clubhouse. This is what you get for voting Liberal. Welcome to Canada boys, the real Canada, the open sewer the rest if us have to live in.
____________________

Pfft, maybe an open sewer for you.
Quit trying to blame the liberals for all your problems.
Get off your azz and get a life.

#219 KLNR on 11.27.18 at 9:56 am

@#192 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:27 am
KlNR
Most folks I know that are doing well are part of the creative class or the trades. If you want a secure wage you may want a public sector job :)
Thx,… I’m not looking for a job. ( I work in the engineering department at sector ( ;
I’m looking for answers and what the drivers for this economy are and you have basically told me that it’s trades,…. Related to building houses in condos?
And public sector paid by the taxpayer.
What is holding up the real estate economy!? Help me figure this out.
________________________

lol, do your own homework

#220 KLNR on 11.27.18 at 10:06 am

@#158 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 10:14 pm

I’m 100% sure I won’t live to see electric sub-compacts even make a dent in the market out here in the glacier strewn wastelands of rural Ontario.

___________________________

100% sure really?
leafs/volts/tesla everywhere I look in the GTA.
they’re spreading fast. All the big players have truck protos in the works. You might be surprised how quickly it happens. Maybe a bad analogy but look how rapidly the tech progressed with flat screen tvs. and how quickly the price came down. I’m 99% sure you’ll see electric F250’s roaming the glacier strewn wastelands of rural Ontario within the next 10yrs

#221 James on 11.27.18 at 10:28 am

GM sold 9.6 million cars in fiscal 2017 ending Dec 31st. Of that statistic total sales 4 million cars were sold in China that year. A record and a success for car sales in China. After the Old Orange guy who now likes to call himself “President T” decided to show his balls to the world as a tough deal maker, he decided to pick a trade war with China. It just smells like the success of building cars that sell in China will continue. Just not here in North America. As a President he is a piece of work but Trump is absolutely the most idiotic business man I have ever seen. Regardless of his failing foreign policies that will all come back to bite him and America in the ass GM has had this plan in the works for many years. Trump can talk about how tough he was in telling Mary Barra that GM has to change, Pfft! It is just now that the trigger has been pulled on the closings and Trump can not take losing at all.

https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2126860/gm-car-sales-speed-past-record-4-million-2017-china-even-it-hits

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-gm-isnt-likely-to-stop-making-cars-in-china-1543320164

#222 dosouth on 11.27.18 at 10:30 am

I get the high cost of housing thing. We all eventually suffer if we buy into the real estate race. However all these Alabamians and Tennesseans with their low cost housing.

Now ask them after they lose their house/home, car, livelihood to any type of medical condition or their children or any family member. Destitute in an instant. These are called trade offs, so rent if you have too and enjoy traveling and the ability to do so here even from Province to Province knowing you have that ability without threat of death or medical devastation.

….and the economy. You can blame the greedy and apparently the “shareholders” who keep demanding higher profits and screw the workers. You should be looking more under that rock. IMHO

#223 Steven Rowlandson on 11.27.18 at 10:33 am

If maintaining the status quo depends on regular pay and lots of it then those who have are facing a upcoming reality check and they won’t like it. You can’t get blood from a turnip.

#224 dharma bum on 11.27.18 at 10:35 am

This speaks to what I was mentioning a few weeks ago while on an extended stay down in the U.S.
It is so obvious that there are numerous great options down in the States for where to live cheaply relative to the Canadian situation.
So many excellent communities, (safe, aesthetically pleasing, and close to larger cities) exist where the cost of housing is a mere fraction of Canadian “big city” housing. For $250K-$300K, in one of hundreds of beautiful communities, you can get a house that would cost $1M-$1.5M in the GTA.
No matter how you slice it, your buck goes a lot further in the U.S. than in Canada.
Yes. Even if you have to self-supplement your health insurance.

#225 James on 11.27.18 at 10:36 am

#184 Smoking Man on 11.27.18 at 1:27 am

The seasons of life
Jan to March.
You’re a kid, Happy as shit, no responsibility, live for ridding your bike down suicide hill in the high park, you and your buddies high fiving each other.
March 20th to June 20th.
Kids fitting in. Hockey, sports and whatever.
June 20th to Sept 20th, that is where I am now. Did my job, Buried my folks, give the kids a goal. they are on there own now. Experience life. The up and downs are what memories are made of.
Sept 20th, to December 30th.
That’s where you should blow every last cent you made You don’t know the end date is but you know it’s close.
If you go beyond this, you’re an idiot.
___________________________________________
I cannot identify with you old man as your life sounds super miserable and gloomy. Why aren’t you being contemplative about expending your last years here with your loving family, nurturing your grandchildren and making memories for them? Wow you need a hug not a drink.

#226 Smoking Man on 11.27.18 at 10:38 am

The average family health care premium in the US is $10,000 a year and the average deductible is $4,300. However, most Americans with jobs are covered by employer-sponsored plans. One advantage: no 12-month wait times to see a specialist, get an MRI or schedule surgery, as is the case in many parts of Canada. Plus world-class clinics treating a growing number of Canadians. Oh yeah, and less income tax. So don’t fall for the myth our system is necessarily superior. – Garth
……

I’m paying 800 a month for me and the wife. But saving 3000 a month on taxes vs what I paid in Canada.

50 co-pay. 2500 deductible.

If I was a none smoker even cheaper.

Blue sky everyday…and Vegas a quick ride. Doesn’t get any better than this.

#227 joblo on 11.27.18 at 10:44 am

WUL : how about Ottawa and Montreal drafting deceased?
CFL so Lame.
https://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/15/sports/pro-football-canadian-team-drafts-dead-man.html

#228 Howard on 11.27.18 at 11:00 am

Garth, are you aware of this?

https://www.orea.com/orpc

Ontario REALTOR® Party Conference

Keynote speakers include Doug Ford, Stephen Harper, Andrea Horwath, John Fraser (interim ON Liberal leader).

“Each year, the Ontario Real Estate Association hosts its’ Ontario REALTOR® Party Conference to bring together leaders from real estate, media and government. Attendees will hear from Leaders of Ontario’s Political Parties, Pollster Nik Nanos, some of Canada’s leading journalists, top political strategists and a surprise guest – a heavy weight of Canadian Politics!”

So basically it’s an event for the realturds to grovel to politicians and vice versa?

#229 Down And Out on 11.27.18 at 11:16 am

http://www.autoextremist.com/ An expert opinion on GM

#230 IHCTD9 on 11.27.18 at 11:16 am

#192 Cto on 11.27.18 at 5:27 am

Thx,… I’m not looking for a job. ( I work in the engineering department at sector ( ;
I’m looking for answers and what the drivers for this economy are and you have basically told me that it’s trades,…. Related to building houses in condos?
And public sector paid by the taxpayer.
What is holding up the real estate economy!? Help me figure this out.
____

Expect that the the bulk of new home sales were backed by move up buyers, and homeowners speculating using a HELOC on their existing homes – all basted in a euphoric bonanza of dirt cheap credit and 20+% yoy gains.

Folks who owned before the run up in prices got a free ride up the ladder via equity – many moved up with a totally reasonable mortgage payment given the 2.4% rates at the time. – Tons of established Joe Shmoe owners suddenly found themselves with 500K – 1 million in dirt cheap credit (Heloc equity) that they don’t even have to pay the principal on. Many speculated in RE with that. Money was flying everywhere. Everyone was drunk on RE for a while.

Others trying to buy in from scratch formed
“economic households” (3-4-5+ multiple earners in one house), and/or took on renters and second jobs to get in on RE.

Still others absolutely pickled themselves by borrowing the down payment (from BoMaD) which was preventing them from getting a mortgage, and diving in head first totally maxed out; hoping rates would never go up.

There are many ways folks got themselves into a huge mortgage – some even went so far as to borrow the down payment from alt-lenders charging 8-12% when they were punted by the big banks. Folks were insane to buy figuring it was only upa upa from here on in – and there were all going to be rich.

You can rest assured that there is no big load of high paying jobs or industry supporting the GTA RE market. There are some sure, but the ultra vast majority are just regular nothing special wages. The household incomes in Toronto are essentially the same – if not worse than your typical small/medium towns these days.

A young couple just starting out in Toronto from scratch – is not buying a house, end of conversation. They probably never will either. Same goes with anyone who does not have big assets to back the purchase or a gigantic income to enable them getting a mortgage. There is no magic industry allowing GTA folks to afford these prices

It looks insane on the surface, but a little digging and some logic provides the answers. Now you can be glad that you did not do the same as some of these folks did over the last few years.

Garth just featured a married couple a week back – both lawyers, who had to stretch to buy an sfd (first time buyers) in the GTA – these two had a 1% income – that tells you all you need to know…

#231 TurnerNation on 11.27.18 at 11:23 am

Yet another former politician or police chief turned to dealing legal drugs. Justin’s soma as the UN noose tightens.
Our elites will sup well tonight.

“The Financial Post reports in its Tuesday edition that former Ontario finance minister Charles Sousa has become the latest politician to enter Canada’s multibillion-dollar cannabis industry. The Post’s Vanmala Subramaniam writes that Mr. Sousa, who lost his seat in Ontario’s June provincial election, will join the board of Lobo Genetics, a cannabis technology company “

#232 Johnny Canada on 11.27.18 at 11:30 am

#218 K, Trudeau’s made this country a sewer. Don’t think because you’ve hot civil service job the alligator will eat you last. The rot in Canada is gangrenous. You’ve screwed your kids by voting Liberal. Have another drink , proud leech, you’ll need that liquid courage for what’s coming next.

#233 PastThePeak on 11.27.18 at 11:31 am

#205 Tater on 11.27.18 at 7:59 am
Amazing to see how many people who claim to have left Canada hang around here.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why do you hang around here? And why can’t they? Are you a typical Liberal that believes in diversity, provided everyone thinks the same way? Perhaps you want them banned for having a different viewpoint?
….
Anyways, I work for a large multi-national telecoms equipment vendor (based in Europe), which has a sizeable presence in Canada (s/w engineering, h/w design, services). The pay is good (note to the young: engineering pays well), and being multinational it is not much affected by the Canadian economy (though it is of course by CAD taxes and regulations).

Being multi-national, there are opportunities for employees to move to other countries for positions, and the company helps with the immigration paper work.

Two points:
1) I know many people in our company who have moved from Canada to work in the US (California, Texas, NC, NY,…). No one has ever returned. Those I am friends with speak of substantial increase in net income, and – yes – they all have great health coverage.

2) I know of no one from the US that has moved to Canada.

#234 Shawn Allen on 11.27.18 at 11:34 am

Fartz gives me a history lesson

#206 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 8:03 am
@#156 Lobster Man and #167 Shawn Allen
“Well I don’t remember the Ontario theme song but I did attend EXPO ’67 ”

and

“it’s doubtful we will ever host another world exposition.”

+++++

Perhaps you didn’t remember the theme song because Expo67 was in Montreal, Quebec?

Oh and I also attended Expo67 as a tike…

***********************************
Yes, Montreal. But I simply said I don’t remember the Ontario theme song that Lobster Man said was popular at the time. You know, we did have radio in Cape Breton. Even T.V. albeit just CBC over the air. CTV and a french channel did not arrive until sometime after 1967.

Good to know you also attended Expo ’67. It was a time of the highest pride in Canada.

A complaint: I was back to the site of EXPO ’67 around 2004 with my kids. Part of the site is (or was) still there. American pavilion – the geodesic dome and other things. You know, I could not find a single sign in English acknowledging or celebrating what remains Canada’s largest tourist event ever by far. I chalk it up to sign language laws or maybe the fact that EXPO ’76 was always thought of as a Canadian celebration?. Perhaps one that Quebec was never really all-in on? I don’t know the reason but it seemed poor manners not to have a single sign in English.

#235 Y. Knott on 11.27.18 at 11:38 am

“Why aren’t we refining more of our own product? Here on the west coast, we ship crude to the States only to have it refined and shipped back to us as a higher quality product. Shouldn’t we be keeping some of that money in country?”

– Or shipping raw logs overseas while our mills all close? The only thing Bill Vander Zalm ever did that I agreed-with was to tell JFK Jr, when Jr came up here pow-wowing with the First Nations and signing softwood countervails, to go home and fix his own country before coming here to tell us how to fix ours. I gather Jr was looking to export raw logs south so U.S. forestry companies could keep their mills open, and Vander Zalm wouldn’t hear of it. Why are we exporting them now? I used to fly over Vancouver Island; a desert, with little fringes around the mountain tops where the clear-cutters couldn’t get-at the last trees, and freighters piled high with old-growth logs heading to Japan.

And the problem with Canadian oil, notably the stuff from the tar sands, is that it’s at the surface of the planet, not buried deep underground – and almost all of the light aromatics evaporated-off millennia ago. I heard the lightest fraction left in the tar sands is diesel – and not a lot of that, either; most of it’s almost Bunker C, so it’d need mixing with lighter fractions brought-in from elsewhere, to make into gasoline. It can’t compete with light sweet Texas crude, for most of what we use oil for.

Denninger has a good one up today; lithium batteries CAN NOT be charged below 0 degrees Celsius or they’ll short-out and catch fire, just about everytime. Forty years ago I had a conversation with a friend, his brother-in-law was an engineer in a big U.S. battery company. He said back then that they could make a lithium battery the size of a coke can that could power a small electric motorcycle. They weren’t selling it though, because the battery would have the explosive power of half a stick of dynamite, and frequently would explode. I gather it’s no better today – and I’ve ruined a cellphone and a satnav leaving them in the vehicle over-winter, here in the mild East. Don’t see electric cars being viable in most of the Canadian Winter, anytime soon:

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=234594

#236 Goober on 11.27.18 at 11:39 am

Canada (1967 song)

“Canada” (also known as “Ca-na-da” or “The Centennial Song”, French version “Une chanson du centenaire”) was written by Bobby Gimby in 1967 to celebrate Canada’s centennial and Expo 67, and was commissioned by the Centennial Commission (a special Federal Government agency). The song was written in both of Canada’s official languages, English and French.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_(1967_song)

——————————————————————

#212 Wrk.dover on 11.27.18 at 8:45 am
Canadaaaa, one little, two little, three little Canadians
we love you….

what song was that

#237 RyYYZ on 11.27.18 at 11:47 am

#45 Dolce Vita on 11.26.18 at 5:10 pm
What we need is Gov leadership with a VISION to the next 30 years.
=====================================

I’m afraid they DO have a vision for the next 30 years. It’s just not a vision with a growing economy and increased opportunity for average Canadians.

#238 IHCTD9 on 11.27.18 at 11:58 am

#220 KLNR on 11.27.18 at 10:06 am
@#158 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 10:14 pm

I’m 100% sure I won’t live to see electric sub-compacts even make a dent in the market out here in the glacier strewn wastelands of rural Ontario.

___________________________

100% sure really?
leafs/volts/tesla everywhere I look in the GTA.
they’re spreading fast. All the big players have truck protos in the works. You might be surprised how quickly it happens. Maybe a bad analogy but look how rapidly the tech progressed with flat screen tvs. and how quickly the price came down. I’m 99% sure you’ll see electric F250’s roaming the glacier strewn wastelands of rural Ontario within the next 10yrs
____

I’d guess a workable electric full size truck could be built right now. Unfortunately it would probably cost 300-400K and no one would buy it, leading to its discontinuation.

Tesla already has the Model X which they call an SUV, but it’s basically a crossover. If you get the good one, it can tow 5K, and it costs $208,000.00 CAD. This is totally useless, that’s minivan tow capability with Porsche 911 Turbo AWD pricing.

It’s those big lithium-ion batteries. Awesome, but expensive (imagine that). I recently bought a cordless 14″ chainsaw, 66% of the cost is the battery and charger.

IMHO, there will be a need for new battery technology. Lithium is non-renewable, and not nearly as plentiful as oil. China is already starting to hoard it. It’s just too bloody expensive and limited in supply for a real sustainable future powering cars.

#239 Guy in Calgary on 11.27.18 at 12:00 pm

It is pretty amazing that a country with a small population, talent, huge oil deposits and other resources, cannot rub two pennies together.

#240 Renter's Revenge! on 11.27.18 at 12:01 pm

#222 dosouth on 11.27.18 at 10:30 am
“….and the economy. You can blame the greedy and apparently the “shareholders” who keep demanding higher profits and screw the workers. You should be looking more under that rock. IMHO”

==================================

Judging from the share price of GM over the last 8 years, it looks like they’re just trying to keep the company alive.

#241 Another Deckchair on 11.27.18 at 12:06 pm

Title: Scientific study on the IC vs. Electric Car Debate.

Method:
1) open a beer and a deck chair, sit and sip and listen and smile.
2) wait for opposing sides to call each other “dinosaurs”
3) observe resultant fist fight and note emotional damage.
4) log moment when both sides conclude that both forms of personal car propulsion have no future in an increasingly urban environment.

Observations as of November 27, 2018:
1) Beaus beer is good.

2) At the moment, EV proponents have the upper hand; IC proponents have not figured out how to change the argument away from an “us vs. them” to “lets document the common issues”.

3.1) VW Diesel gate; waiting for someone to indicate that all fuel economy results are rigged;
3.2) EV battery technology; some of the boundary conditions on usage are coming to light; waiting for someone to figure out that EV cars have strict boundary conditions that physics can’t solve;

4.1) Both sides still focused on 2D problem (lat, lon), and not on 3D living space (lat, lon, height) vs. the “lack of 3D roads” issue, neither side has figured out the 4th dimension is also common between them;

4.2) Waiting for someone to figure out that the underlying infrastructure (plural) has issues due to energy and space issues (maintenance of roads,bridges, lack of room for road expansion, issues with expropriation of privately held lands, etc)

Conclusion: Status of Nov 27 2018, still waiting for the penny to drop…

#242 RyYYZ on 11.27.18 at 12:33 pm

89 MF on 11.26.18 at 7:29 pm
I never understood this type of person.

Are you saying that Teachers, Accountants, and Police Officers in general should make less money?
====================================

I don’t know about accountants, but yes I am of the belief that (at least certain classes of) public servants are overpaid. Teachers , firemen, and policemen make well in excess of what people in the private sector with comparable skills and workloads make. Why should they make more than the people with comparable skills and employability who pay taxes to pay their wages? We all know they only get as much as they do due to unions, and in the case of police and fire, binding arbitration. In general I don’t believe public servants should even have the right to unionize. Don’t like it? Go find a job in the private sector. My dad served this country in the Navy for 35 years. We don’t allow the military to unionize or bargain, though. Why not? Are they more “essential” than police and firefighters? If he was still in, today, at his last rank, he’d probably still be making less than the average cop, firefighter, or teacher with a few years in (he was a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy).

#243 KLNR on 11.27.18 at 12:35 pm

@#233 PastThePeak on 11.27.18 at 11:31 am
#205 Tater on 11.27.18 at 7:59 am
Amazing to see how many people who claim to have left Canada hang around here.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why do you hang around here? And why can’t they? Are you a typical Liberal that believes in diversity, provided everyone thinks the same way? Perhaps you want them banned for having a different viewpoint?
….
Anyways, I work for a large multi-national telecoms equipment vendor (based in Europe), which has a sizeable presence in Canada (s/w engineering, h/w design, services). The pay is good (note to the young: engineering pays well), and being multinational it is not much affected by the Canadian economy (though it is of course by CAD taxes and regulations).

Being multi-national, there are opportunities for employees to move to other countries for positions, and the company helps with the immigration paper work.

Two points:
1) I know many people in our company who have moved from Canada to work in the US (California, Texas, NC, NY,…). No one has ever returned. Those I am friends with speak of substantial increase in net income, and – yes – they all have great health coverage.

2) I know of no one from the US that has moved to Canada.
_____________________________

most folks on here who have left Canada, just come on here to badmouth their former Country.
Why bother? Nobody cares what you think.

#244 KLNR on 11.27.18 at 12:38 pm

@#232 Johnny Canada on 11.27.18 at 11:30 am
#218 K, Trudeau’s made this country a sewer. Don’t think because you’ve hot civil service job the alligator will eat you last. The rot in Canada is gangrenous. You’ve screwed your kids by voting Liberal. Have another drink , proud leech, you’ll need that liquid courage for what’s coming next.
______________________________
dude, you’re unhinged.
Take your meds asap lol.

#245 James on 11.27.18 at 12:54 pm

#226 Smoking Man on 11.27.18 at 10:38 am

The average family health care premium in the US is $10,000 a year and the average deductible is $4,300. However, most Americans with jobs are covered by employer-sponsored plans. One advantage: no 12-month wait times to see a specialist, get an MRI or schedule surgery, as is the case in many parts of Canada. Plus world-class clinics treating a growing number of Canadians. Oh yeah, and less income tax. So don’t fall for the myth our system is necessarily superior. – Garth
……

I’m paying 800 a month for me and the wife. But saving 3000 a month on taxes vs what I paid in Canada.
50 co-pay. 2500 deductible.
If I was a none smoker even cheaper.
Blue sky everyday…and Vegas a quick ride. Doesn’t get any better than this.
__________________________________________
Sure you are. I lived in Socal and I can tell you not much has changed since I left price-wise. Your not fully covered old man. You have left out the details.
Cheapest typical rate is $1000.00 per month with the following.
Primary Care Visits 1-2 per year You pay 40%
Emergency visits 1-2 per year You pay 40% + deductible.
Generic Drugs You pay 40%
Yearly Deductible $12000
Clearly you have identified all of the important details that start adding up. For an old man of your years and with all of your ailments your toast if you get sick in socal.

I still have the link to my old plan.

LOW USE: 1-2 doctor visits and lab tests each year; preventive care too.
MEDIUM USE: 3-5 doctor visits and lab tests with an x-ray each year; one or more small treatments done in doctor’s office; often the care is for an ongoing health problem.
HIGH USE: 6 or more doctor visits and a number of lab tests; a surgery, therapy or other treatment in an outpatient center plus follow-up care.
VERY HIGH USE: a hospital stay, high cost radiology scans or outpatient treatment; more than 6 doctor visits with lab tests and other care.
LOW USE: 1-2 prescriptions during the year for brief illness.
MEDIUM USE: 1 prescription each month for a health problem; also may need several short-term medications.
HIGH USE: 2 prescriptions each month for health problems; often higher cost medications.
VERY HIGH USE: 3 or more prescriptions each month for health problems OR very high cost medications

#246 Evangeline on 11.27.18 at 1:00 pm

#239 Guy in Calgary on 11.27.18 at 12:00 pm
“It is pretty amazing that a country with a small population, talent, huge oil deposits and other resources, cannot rub two pennies together.”

Plus the longest peaceful border in the world, and on the doorstep, the greatest potential customer base in the world.

#247 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 1:14 pm

@#234 Shawn
” You know, we did have radio in Cape Breton. Even T.V. albeit just CBC over the air.”
+++++
History Lesson Part Deux

Probably just as bad as TV in Dartmouth in the 1960’s
When cable arrived we were “thrilled” to watch tv from Maine ” Dick Staceys Country Jambouree” was a hoot!
Brought to you by Dick Stacey’s Chevron Fuel Mart…..
“See these hands! They smell gassy so your’s don’t have to

#248 Tater on 11.27.18 at 1:27 pm

#233 PastThePeak on 11.27.18 at 11:31 am
#205 Tater on 11.27.18 at 7:59 am
Amazing to see how many people who claim to have left Canada hang around here.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why do you hang around here? And why can’t they? Are you a typical Liberal that believes in diversity, provided everyone thinks the same way? Perhaps you want them banned for having a different viewpoint?
….
Anyways, I work for a large multi-national telecoms equipment vendor (based in Europe), which has a sizeable presence in Canada (s/w engineering, h/w design, services). The pay is good (note to the young: engineering pays well), and being multinational it is not much affected by the Canadian economy (though it is of course by CAD taxes and regulations).

Being multi-national, there are opportunities for employees to move to other countries for positions, and the company helps with the immigration paper work.

Two points:
1) I know many people in our company who have moved from Canada to work in the US (California, Texas, NC, NY,…). No one has ever returned. Those I am friends with speak of substantial increase in net income, and – yes – they all have great health coverage.

2) I know of no one from the US that has moved to Canada.
—————————————————————

Wow, right to the assumptions, eh? I just find it odd that anyone would spend their time reading a real estate and personal finance blog for a country they no longer live in.

And if we’re swapping anecdotes, I know 5 or 6 Americans who left the US to come to Canada and now have no plans to leave. Reasons cited are the pay and lifestyle is pretty good, health care is comparable or better here (and cheaper), and more recently concerns about gun violence. Of course these are all finance folks who make high 6 figures (or low 7s) so standard of living is better than most.

How can you tell if an engineer is an extrovert?
When he talks he looks at the other person’s shoes.

#249 Gil on 11.27.18 at 1:33 pm

The point is not that the cars are getting greener (that’s a BS argument) but very soon with cars becoming self driving there will be no need for that many cars.
Services that are running rental/taxi fleets will utilize cars more efficiently. The value of this service will be the service itself it provides, car will turn from an almost luxury item into a tool service provider uses to accomplish the task of getting you from A to B.
Fewer cars waiting for 8 hours at your work place or 12 hours in your garage. I do not believe for a second that future plant construction doesnt have these projections in mind. Which means: fewer cars needed, each should be inexpensive to make (retrofitting old fleet with rapidly changing self driving technology might be costly) – so welcome fewer plants in Mexico.

#250 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 1:43 pm

@#234 Shawn
History Lesson Part Trois
As for the Quebec revisionist version of Canadian history….
Q’uelle Surprise

I was in Montreal and Quebec city a few times over the last 2 decades to visit friends. Montreal has their sh!t together.
Quebec City?
I loved the Quebec and American flag flying over the Quebec City Hall a few years back. No Canadian Flag.
All while the Canadian Govt was pumping billions into the local economy. I asked locals about it. The mayor at the time refused to fly the Canuck flag.

English Graffitti spray painted on walls was chastised with French graffiti for writing graffiti in ….english.

General Wolfe’s ( the English victor in the Battle of the Plains of Abraham) tiny statue in a nondescript location in old Quebec was sprayed with paint with the charming “Englishit” epithet.

While the massive statue of Lord Montcalm ( the French loser in the battle) was adorned with fresh flowers in a place of prominence by the Chateau Frontenac.

Revisionist history a la 250 years later……gotta luv it

#251 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 1:50 pm

#205 Tater on 11.27.18 at 7:59 am
Amazing to see how many people who claim to have left Canada hang around here.

==================

It is called schadenfreude.

However what you and KLNR (the real estate/government guy who is perfectly fine with his ‘lifestyle’, great weather, booming economy etc. fantasies) do not realize is that people are not badmouthing Canada, buts it’s elite and the overwhelming number of idiots living there who accept being screwed with a smile and ask for more.

#252 IHCTD9 on 11.27.18 at 1:50 pm

#116 Smelly on 11.26.18 at 8:38 pm
If housing prices should ever start to decline Trudeau will double or triple the immigration rates. This will help keep demand and prices up, and prevent a badly needed price adjustment that could make us more competitive. It will also boost jobs in new home construction.
______

It’ll do none of that. Immigrants for the most part come here with squat, spend most of it getting set up, and many find things so difficult shortly thereafter that they end up just going back home.

Just about anything you can read about immigrants to Canada says they come with little, have trouble finding work, and make much less than born Canadians do for the same education and job, and take over a decade to even approach parity with their new Countrymen.

Despite huge government agencies and billions flushed – Canada is still tough. We have an emigration rate 5X higher than the USA, up to 40% of new immigrants pack up and leave within 10 years, and now we find even born Canadians are increasingly giving our big cities the middle finger salute and bailing out – because they can’t make ends meet either.

0% chance a typical new immigrant family or individual is buying a GTA sfd in 2018+ – absolutely no chance.

#253 Bigrider on 11.27.18 at 1:52 pm

198 Howard on 11.27.18 at 6:56 am

https://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/housing-lottery-with-501-odds-reveals-dark-side-of-toronto-boom

“We’ve reached a point now where given the amount of people, industries we’re attracting, we are already becoming terribly unaffordable for everyone,” said Richard Florida, a professor at the University of Toronto and author of several books on urban issues. “We’re at a crisis and we don’t even realize it: Our transit, traffic problem and housing problem are urgent matters.”

——————-
Yup. So much for the relentless bleating on and on about a housing correction of any kind.

Nonno was right, “she’sa only gonna go oneaway, da price ofa da house, she’sa only gonna go uppa Uppa UPPA!

#254 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 1:56 pm

#248 Tater on 11.27.18 at 1:27 pm

Keep believing that bullshit you wrote.

But of course, Americans are coming in the thousands here as it is cheaper (?!?), better and cheaper health care (cuckoo, cuckoo) and they have a better lifestyle and less violence (look at the homicide stats in Toronto), lower taxes (???)

You are an absolutely delusional troll most likely on governmental job.

I would not be surprised for the liberal lairs to be spending some budget money on upbeat yahoo articles on ‘innovation in Canada’ or to task subordinates with polluting the blogs with lie after lie after lie.

#255 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 2:13 pm

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/video/global-news-live-160000803.html

Catastrophic event for the # 1 export industry – auto generating 80 billion in exports.

They will place (T2?) tariffs on US to fight the GM withdrawal from Canada (laughter ensued).

The ONLY way to keep GM here is to be paid Mexican wages, period.

This is what globalization is: compete with the cheapest labour in the world out there.

#256 IHCTD9 on 11.27.18 at 2:25 pm

#246 Evangeline on 11.27.18 at 1:00 pm
#239 Guy in Calgary on 11.27.18 at 12:00 pm

“It is pretty amazing that a country with a small population, talent, huge oil deposits and other resources, cannot rub two pennies together.”

Plus the longest peaceful border in the world, and on the doorstep, the greatest potential customer base in the world.
______

Yep – Canadians are not too smart at the voting booths. Somewhere along the line, things that don’t matter all that much became the be all, end all of cosmic issues – and before long, there was no problem we did not expect the government to fix.

Canadians need a wake up call, maybe it’s coming, hopefully we will be able to crawl out of the hole afterwards. Preventative action went out the window ages ago.

#257 Entrepreneur on 11.27.18 at 2:40 pm

Proud of the bloggers and their input of what is happening in Canada. We are all concerned about Canada, their citizens, the taxpayer.

It is important to listen to the ex-Canadians that moved down to the States, their side of the equation of why they left.

Some of the bloggers stand out for Liberal defenders. This is not about party-team player. It is about the Canadian Middle Class, the hard tax-paying worker.

#258 Carlos S. on 11.27.18 at 2:48 pm

This commentary kinda nails it, with respect to GM… unfortunately. https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2018/11/the-stock-market-doesnt-care-about-you/

#259 Steven Rowlandson on 11.27.18 at 3:09 pm

RE#230
I think you nailed it. Canada has become a rich man’s country only thanks to the real estate market.
If the poorest paid working man can’t live here and raise a family on one income then the country has had the biscuit. The reality check and correction will be and has to be brutal or nothing will change for the better.

#260 Remembrancer on 11.27.18 at 3:12 pm

#247 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.27.18 at 1:14 pm
Dick Staceys Country Jambouree” was a hoot!
Brought to you by Dick Stacey’s Chevron Fuel Mart…..
“See these hands! They smell gassy so your’s don’t have to
———————————————————
Thanks a lot fartz, now I have strains of “on the wings of a pure sweet dove” running through my head all afternoon…

#261 cto on 11.27.18 at 3:26 pm

#201 MF

let me hazard a guess MF…..there……….umm….
Real Estate Agents????

#262 cto on 11.27.18 at 3:28 pm

#230 IHCTD9

thanks for your comment…It has a little more substance than #201 MFs

#263 Headhunter on 11.27.18 at 3:34 pm

Holy Hannah.. lots of gummin’ and jawboning over who lives where and blah blah blah

USA is better on the little and middle guy (who works vs live off the system) vs Canada.. Anyone who can’t see that is willfully blind. Cost of living is less. Look at shopping malls in Buffalo.. full of Canadians. Why is that?

Guys posting about “where are the jobs in the GTA to support these prices” Winner winner chicken dinner made my day

#264 Shawn Allen on 11.27.18 at 3:38 pm

Wht Rate Reset Preferred shares Have decline.

In a word “Risk”. Perceptions of risk are up. And the asking return for incurring risk is up. The market required “spread” over and above the 5 year government of Canada bond yield has increased. It may or may not be warranted but there it is.

Those who bought for income will almost certainly (except perhaps in the case of weaker high yield issues) get their money as promised. And it’s not clear that inflation will be higher than expected. They also see a capital loss on their statement but are under no obligation to crystalise and make more real this loss.

Those with money to invest can enjoy a higher yield.

Those who sell now suffer a capital loss.

There is always a bright side to cheaper prices, especially on quality investments.

#265 Shawn Allen on 11.27.18 at 3:47 pm

The Market Does Not Care About You?

#258 Carlos S. on 11.27.18 at 2:48 pm said:

This commentary kinda nails it, with respect to GM… unfortunately. https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2018/11/the-stock-market-doesnt-care-about-you/

***************************************
True, and actually basically no one except close family and friends cares about any of us at all. (And some of those family and friends don’t care that much either.)

That’s why when push comes to shove the is no “we” in economics. People will support their country or province or City or profession just as long as it is their OWN best interest to do so and not really any longer than that.

You’re on your own. Luckily though we live in a country where it is not hard to do pretty well. It’s not all bad news.

#266 jess on 11.27.18 at 3:53 pm

New York (CNN Business)President Donald Trump threatened on Tuesday to cut all General Motors subsidies

https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=general-motors
Subsidy Summary Subsidy Value Number of Awards
State/Local $5,384,353,779 216
Federal (grants and allocated tax credits) $943,552,411 290
TOTAL $6,327,906,190 506
Loan / Bailout Summary Total Face Value Number of Awards
State/Local loans, bond financing and venture capital $0 0
Federal loans, loan guarantees and bailout assistance (not including repayments) $50,346,920,000 23
TOTAL $50,346,920,000 23
. The majority of the listings for this parent company are for the period since 2007.

==============================
Federal prosecutors in East Tennessee have indicted four Florida men and their seven companies in a $1 billion health care fraud scheme, the U.S. Department of Justice announced in a news release Monday.

The defendants are accused of conspiring to trick tens of thousands of patients and more than 100 doctors to defraud health insurance companies through an elaborate telemedicine scheme that ran from June 2015 until April of this year, the release states.

The 40-page, 32-count indictment alleges the defendants bilked private insurance companies out of approximately $174 million. Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee said the potentially fraudulent claims filed with the company total around $2 million.

Prosecutors further claim the defendants submitted at least $931 million in fraudulent claims for payment.

#267 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 4:00 pm

#265 Shawn Allen on 11.27.18 at 3:47 pm

You’re on your own. Luckily though we live in a country where it is not hard to do pretty well. It’s not all bad news.

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Well is in the eye of a beholder.

#268 Tater on 11.27.18 at 4:03 pm

#254 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 1:56 pm
#248 Tater on 11.27.18 at 1:27 pm

Keep believing that bullshit you wrote.

But of course, Americans are coming in the thousands here as it is cheaper (?!?), better and cheaper health care (cuckoo, cuckoo) and they have a better lifestyle and less violence (look at the homicide stats in Toronto), lower taxes (???)

You are an absolutely delusional troll most likely on governmental job.

I would not be surprised for the liberal lairs to be spending some budget money on upbeat yahoo articles on ‘innovation in Canada’ or to task subordinates with polluting the blogs with lie after lie after lie.
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8400 Americans did move here in 2016. You can choose to believe it or not, but it remains a fact. And, yep, in my line of work I know many ex-Americans and Canadians who spent 15 or 20 years working in the US and came back. I know a bunch of ex-pat Brits as well.

Sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative. As for the idea that I’m a government worker, that’s truly hilarious. I love getting paid way too much to work for the government.

#269 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 4:23 pm

DELETED

#270 jess on 11.27.18 at 4:23 pm

diversified ….indeed
In 1985, while GM was under the leadership of Roger Smith, who sought to diversify the company, GMAC formed GMAC Mortgage and acquired Colonial Mortgage as well as the servicing arm of Norwest Mortgage, which included an $11 billion mortgage portfolio.[8]

In 1991, the company was forced to write-off $275 million in bad debt as part of a $436 million loss suffered from fraud committed by John McNamara, who ran a Ponzi scheme.[9]

In 1998, the company formed GMAC Real Estate.[7] In 1999, GMAC Mortgage acquired Ditech.[10] In 2000, the company formed GMAC Bank, a direct bank.[7] In 2005, the company formed GMAC ResCap as a holding company for its mortgage operations.[7]

In 2006, General Motors sold a 51% interest in GMAC to Cerberus Capital Management, a private equity firm. Also that year, GMAC sold a controlling interest of GMAC Commercial Holdings, its real estate division that was renamed Capmark, to Goldman Sachs, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, and Five Mile Capital Partners.[11] GMAC Real Estate was sold to Brookfield Asset Management. In 2009, Capmark filed for bankruptcy and its North American loan origination and servicing business was acquired by Berkadia, a joint venture of Leucadia National and Berkshire Hathaway.[12]

On December 24, 2008, the Federal Reserve accepted the company’s application to become a bank holding company.[13] In January 2009, the company shut down Nuvell Financial Services, its subprime lending division.

As a result of losses in GMAC ResCap, the United States Treasury invested $17.2 billion in the company in 2008-2009. The Treasury sold its last stake in the company in 2014, recovering $19.6 billion from its $17.2 billion investment.[14]

In May 2010, GMAC re-branded itself as Ally Financial.[15] In September 2010, the company sold its resort finance business to Centerbridge Partners. In 2012, the company sold its Canadian banking operations to Royal Bank of Canada for $3.8 billion.[16] In April 2014, the company became a public company via an initial public offering.[17] In 2015, it moved its headquarters to One Detroit Center.[18] In June 2016, the company acquired TradeKing, a brokerage firm, for $275 million. TradeKing was rebranded as Ally Invest.[19] wiki

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London (CNN Business)The British lawmaker who seized a cache of confidential Facebook documents says he could make them public within a week.
Damian Collins, the chairman of a British parliamentary committee investigating disinformation, told reporters he would release the documents once they had been reviewed and stripped of personal data.

The inaugural hearing of the “International Grand Committee on Disinformation” was attended by lawmakers from Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, France, Ireland, Latvia, Singapore, and the United Kingdom

“Charlie Angus, a lawmaker from Canada, opened the hearing with a broadside.
“We’ve never seen anything quite like Facebook, where while we were playing on our phones and apps, our democratic institutions … seem to have been upended by frat boy billionaires from California,” he said.

Collins did, however, question Allan during the hearing about one email included in the document trove that was written by a Facebook engineer.
He said that the email, written in 2014, warned that entities with Russian IP addresses were collecting billions of Facebook data points a day through Pinterest.

#271 Stan Brooks on 11.27.18 at 4:36 pm

#268 Tater on 11.27.18 at 4:03 pm

So, you love paying taxes, of course you are a lair.
Nobody likes paying taxes, even Warren Buffet.

Pretending to speak for the average Canadian: of course you are going to help all these unfortunate souls who lose their GM jobs with your good fortune, aren’t you?

Let the taxes you pay increase by the day.
God bless you.
Piece.

#272 MF on 11.27.18 at 4:39 pm

#263 Headhunter on 11.27.18

^complains about jawboning in the comments section
-proceeds to jawbone

MF

#273 Danielle on 11.27.18 at 8:50 pm

Hi Anna – Saying a little prayer for your family and your sister. Luna looks like she will be in good company. Your sister must be a lovely person – only good people own Golden Retrievers.