Compromise

When not roiling with trolls, battling deplorables or throttling the intolerants on this pathetic blog, I actually have a day job. Simple one, too. Helping people with their finances. It’s solid work. Rewarding. And I like it.

Most who call me are married, common law, shacking up or thinking about it. Thus, I spend a lot of time talking to men and women about money, and each other. Over the years I’ve reached the conclusion that this business is more about people than investing. Sticking money into assets that will grow more or less predictably over time is the easy part. And I have smart guys to do that. The pricklier bit is knowing what people want, and how to get it for them. This is made harder when Mars and Venus are not aligned.

As you know, we talk a lot here about real estate. Experience has shown me a house often means different things in a marriage. Women value property for stability and permanence. Men see it as an investment, but hate the debt. If children are involved, everything intensifies. For cultural reasons Canadians think it’s immoral for kids to grow up in rented premises, or move anytime between the ages of 0 and 22.

Beyond the home, research in the US (don’t know of any here) also confirms my observations that M&V have different overall financial goals. In one word for women it’s ‘security.’ For men it is ‘freedom.’ This may be why how-to money books by female authors obsess over paying off debt, budgeting and reducing overhead. Guy finance books are far more likely to promote stock-picking, beating the market, the next big thing and the mindless accumulation of wealth.

Yeah, this is stereotyping and therefore inherently useless. But the themes are worth noting. Women tend to be more strategic with money. Men more daring. Reckless, maybe. And a prevalent belief is that she is more conservative and risk-averse, while he is more aggressive.

One woman advisor I know says her clients (mostly females) consistently answer, when asked, that their greatest fear is being a bag lady in old age. It may be irrational, but it looms large. By comparison I find men to be competitive, more concerned with performance than security. That sure leads to problems, when investing is confused with gambling. Meanwhile women who shun growth assets increase the odds of outliving their money.

Here’s some research you might have missed: women make smarter, more calculated financial decisions because they’re less competitive and more goal-oriented. Remember, that goal is usually security. A big survey by Stash, a US investing app company, found men and women end up owning almost the same kinds of assets (in terms of risk), but manage them differently. And this could make all the difference in explaining the outcome – that investment returns for the girls beat those of the dudes.

Stash’s analysis found users behave quite differently when markets become volatile. Stash examined its users’ behavior on two especially volatile days when major stock indexes suffered big losses, moving into what Stash defines as correction territory. On those days, the men panicked: Men were 87% more likely than women, on average, to sell an investment. That behavior continued through the following week, with the men remaining 76% more likely than the women to sell an investment. “It turns out women acted more sensibly on turbulent days,” Stash concludes in its report. ”By selling after a market drop, men effectively locked in their losses. The market has since recovered.”

Yes, the market recovers over time. It always has. It always will. Only the duration of the plop is in doubt. When declines occur the sole reason for selling and turning a paper loss into a real one is fear of more losses. But that’s irrational, unsupported by history. Just like thinking you’re smarter than Mr. Market and can pick a few assets that will always hit home runs.

So is it hubris goading guys to risk-on, then panic which amps up failure? Is this what they means by toxic masculinity?

Hardly. It’s a blend of Mars and Venus which best leads to success. Fearing debt, craving security and having a long-term perspective are positives. But so is focusing on growth, the pursuit of wealth and the freedom it brings. As this blog points out, when it comes to finances, human nature ain’t always our friend. We buy high and sell low, are massively influenced by others and suffer from recency bias. Now that everyone’s online, social media has morphed into a destructive force, reinforcing biases and bad behaviour while making fake information mainstream.

Ask your partner what he or she wants. Understand why they want it. Explain yourself. Then compromise.

140 comments ↓

#1 For those about to flop... on 11.25.18 at 2:53 pm

Pink Pumpkins being carved in Richmond.

As if we need reminding it’s not just the heavy hitters in trouble as this case in Richmond bears witness.

The details…

9631 Glenthorne Dr, Richmond.

Paid 1.5 June 2017

Asking 1.39

Assessment 1.34

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this case is the fact that someone else only purchased this for 1.32 in January 2017.

The current guys swept in and paid 1.5 in June 2017 in effect bailing them out as the market deteriorated and now have been left holding the bag.

People don’t even want to pay 5 cents for shopping bags, so I’m not sure how much these guys are going to get for theirs…

M44BC

9631 GLENTHORNE DRIVE
Date Comments MLS® Number
2018-Nov-23 Listed $1,399,000 R2324933
2017-Jun-02 Sold $1,500,000 R2164197
2017-May-04 Listed for sale R2164197
2017-Jan-30 Sold $1,325,000 R2131388
2017-Jan-16 Listed for sale R2131388

https://www.zolo.ca/richmond-real-estate/9631-glenthorne-drive

#2 Jean McHenry on 11.25.18 at 2:56 pm

First! Go Stamps Go!

#3 Flamen Lupanares on 11.25.18 at 2:57 pm

The Ram the Pipeline through the Nation Committee is offering free tattoos with Select Alberta Dinosaur Goo. Only to qualified individuals: must have a multi-million mining, oil and gas portfolio (calcutaed in bitcoins) and must take an oath to deny climate warning. Apply within the comment section. Chemtrailers welcome.

#4 TurnerNation on 11.25.18 at 3:34 pm

Sometimes seals come on here clapping the taxes they pay. They are happy to ‘pay their fair share’ in taxes for all the things they are getting. You know all those things?

As I keep saying no new infrastructure will get build unless they toll us for it. Tolls – a tax we pay after paying taxes on that earned cash. We are a tax farm colony being sold off – elite spoils and more coming they are circling:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canada-infrastructure-bank-actively-engaged-in-10-proposals/

Any project we do get are mirred in delays and more free money paid out. Any figure quoted double it to allow for extra payments to favoured companies.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/union-station-update-1.4919686

“It marks a major milestone for the redevelopment of the iconic train station, a project that is years behind schedule and considerably over budget. The projected cost has ballooned from $640 million to $823 million over the course of construction. ”

– A banner ad says visits to Etobicoke hospital are up XX%. Give now for a new one. Why? I already hand over 1/2 my income in total taxation. Give me my
hospital, seals:
https://youhavethepower.ca/Etobicoke-General-Hospital/Overview


But we’re all equal in this land….just ask T2

1/2 billion handed out here and no taxes or HST are paid on those lands. Why can’t the young lads of that community get together and raise a few houses?
Park the new F150s put down the Xbox and git er done millennials:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-indigenous-housing-fund-investment-1.4919733

“The government said 1,143 new homes will be built over the next two to four years and are part of a 10-year, $550-million commitment to build 1,750 new
social housing units for Indigenous residents.”

OR…1/2 million on talking spent here:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ottawa-announces-450000-to-improve-safety-of-lgbtq-canadians

#5 Felix on 11.25.18 at 3:51 pm

Today’s pic nicely illustrates how dogs bring out the stupid in their owners and make them all look dumber together.

Plus felines can take the selfie themselves.

https://www.instagram.com/yoremahm/?hl=en

#6 Buddha on 11.25.18 at 3:51 pm

“Hardly. It’s a blend of Mars and Venus which best leads to success. ”

Sounding very Buddhist there Captain Garth with your reference to the Middle Path….

#7 Lost...but not leased on 11.25.18 at 3:52 pm

Investing and “Men versus Women”…

All those alleged studies do is confirm that men are becoming more feminized and women more masculine in their thinking…

NOT a positive development.

Maybe invest in cat lady futures.

#8 Alessio on 11.25.18 at 3:58 pm

What about when it’s mars and mars or Venus and Venus?

#9 JSS on 11.25.18 at 4:02 pm

I think an Instant Pot keeps couples together.
If couples stay together they can financially do well.
Therefore, I think there’s a connection between Instant Pot and finances.

#10 Freebird on 11.25.18 at 4:13 pm

Husband: checks our portfolio online every week or more.
Me: I scan this blog and current events etc. Read up on money and investing in general.

The compromise: we both like detail (me more so) but I focus on the long game/big picture and planning from my background. He’s a dataphile/analytical consultant numbers guy (nuclear physicist in past life.) We fight a bit (or more) then meet in the middle. Happy spouse, happy house.

Good to make money while you sleep as my brother of the Big Green bank would say.

#11 TurnerNation on 11.25.18 at 4:21 pm

“more concerned with performance than security”

Yeah I’ll definitely be concerned with my performance at old age.

#12 SmarterSquirrel on 11.25.18 at 4:23 pm

How do you find Mars and Venus differ when it comes to spending money, budgeting and saving? By my math (https://smartersquirrel.com/the-things-you-own-end-up-owning-you ) if a person buys a $2000 smartphone when they’re 20 (yes there are people buying smartphones that cost that much all in), a $5500 brand purse or brand watch when they are 30, and a new luxury car when they are 40 for say $26k more than they would pay for a used luxury car or a new non luxury car, they could be depriving their retirement portfolio of $400k by the time they reach 65 (assuming they have an avg 9% portfolio return all those years).

Maybe depriving a retirement portfolio of $400k is ok if the portfolio is big enough to take care of people’s needs in retirement anyway but it seems (particularly this BlackFriday/CyberMonday weekend) a lot of people, both Mars and Venus, are spending beyond their means today and not taking care of their financial future.

#13 For those about to flop... on 11.25.18 at 4:30 pm

Well, I scoured howmuch to see if there was anything close to this topic.

No cigars.

Here’s one that I never ran in the summer to make up for this shortfall…

M44BC

“Visualize the Net Worth of America’s Richest Self-Made Women.

Female entrepreneurialism is on the rise. According to a new ranking from Forbes, the combined net worth of the country’s top 60 self-made women has increased 15% over last year, totaling an impressive $71B. And the minimum threshold to even make it onto the list increased to $320M. With so much money at stake, we created a new visualization highlighting the names and faces of the most successful businesswomen in the country.

We made our visualization using data from Forbes documenting the net worth and industries from which self-made women amassed their fortunes as of 2018. Forbes arrived at these figures by analyzing the value of publicly held stock as of June 22, 2018 as well as conservative estimates of the value for privately held companies compared to similar public ones. Forbes also defined anybody who built their own fortune (as opposed to inheriting it) to be “self-made,” eliminating women who are second-generation business owners. We used the value of their fortunes to create a color-coded bubble chart, letting you easily see which women have the largest net worths and how many fall into which wealth brackets.

Here are the ten richest self-made women according to Forbes, together with their net worth and the primary industry in which they made their money.

1. Diane Hendricks: $4.9B (Roofing)

2. Marian Ilitch: $4.3B (Little Caesars)

3. Judy Faulkner: $3.5B (Healthcare IT)

4. Meg Whitman: $3.3B (eBay)

5. Johnelle Hunt: $3.2B (Trucking)

6. Oprah Winfrey: $3.1B (TV shows)

7. Judy Love: $3.0B (Retail & gas stations)

8. Doris Fisher: $2.8B (Gap)

9. Elaine Wynn: $2.6B (Casinos, hotels)

10. Lynda Resnick: $2.4B (Agriculture)

Our visualization highlights a number of women that we’re betting most readers don’t know yet. There is of course Oprah, with her fortune of $3.1B and rumors of an increasingly unlikelypresidential run. Meg Whitman is also very well known given her success at eBay, tumultuous tenure at Hewlett-Packard, and subsequent campaigns for governor in California. But we’re betting that in general, most people would be hard pressed to identify anyone else pictured in the bubbles in our visualization. Marian Ilitch is the mastermind behind Little Caesars, and Judy Faulkner heads up a company with healthcare software in most of the nation’s best hospitals. Every person on the list is tremendously successful in their own right. Self-made women just aren’t as well known as self-made men, but given their billions of wealth, they obviously have a lot to teach us about success.

Another interesting takeaway from our visual is the inequality it displays even among this elite group. Only two women exceed $4B, and only five are between $3-4B. The average fortune size is $1.18B, which sounds like a lot of money until you remember Mark Zuckerberg lostalmost $17B in a single day this summer. He certainly still has billions and billions left over. In fact, 36 out of the 60 women represented here have amassed personal fortunes valued at less than $1B. The implication of these numbers is that there just aren’t very many self-made women in the business world.”

5 September 2018

Visualization.

https://howmuch.net/articles/americas-richest-self-made-women

#14 Tccontrarian on 11.25.18 at 4:30 pm

Yeah, my wife and I have reached a compromise of sorts, but seems to be working out for us: I make all the investment decisions whereas she makes the decisions on how to spend the profits. As long as I continue to do my part well, she has no problem with trying to perfect hers.
In other domains of life, I don’t even try to understand Venus – just work around it.
TCC

#15 espressobob on 11.25.18 at 4:36 pm

The lower the indices go the safer they are to buy. This is a concept many find confusing. Emotional decisions get in the way most of the time.

Investing is a long term.

Why not take advantage when opportunities present themselves?

#16 vanja culjak on 11.25.18 at 4:46 pm

@klnr

It’s not me who needs tin foil hat, it you buddy. There is no “code” words in my post. It’s you mind playing a trick on you. What i wrote was my understanding of event/s in history that may or may not happen. In my defence I did learned what I wrote from Smithsonian website, I do find Smithsonian to be trustworthy source…
You can check it out yourself, start with that short video, and expand your search to written articles about event and events precluding to it.

and on a side note, I’ll cannibalize quote from movie “High Plains Drifter”, i think that you can relate to it. “It’s what people know about themselves inside that makes them paranoid.” -afraid-

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/smithsonian-channel/the-let-them-eat-cake-line-is-a-lie/

#17 CJohnC on 11.25.18 at 4:46 pm

#10 free bird “Happy spouse, happy house”

How come there is nothing that rhymes with Happy Husband?

#18 Deplorable Dude on 11.25.18 at 4:52 pm

And in actual nerdy space news…NASA is going to attempt to land it’s Insight probe on Mars tomorrow. And my daughter’s name is on that probe on a microchip! Her name will be on Mars!

Right…ok….so much for how Men and Women react to volatile markets….what about the other 80 odd genders…….;-)

#19 Freedom First on 11.25.18 at 5:00 pm

Any male who gets married/common law in Canada is stupid. Nothing legal can protect you. Fact. Misandry is.

Freedom First

#20 Mossy on 11.25.18 at 5:07 pm

Haha Garth, too true. But family life in Canada is designed to revolve around neighbourhoods. This means high levels of social capital for sure, but then also a suspicion of families who move around a bit–no matter how highly educated or respectable they might otherwise be. So much for the GTA’s claims of being a world city. In HK or London or Singapore, expats who move around for work seem to be more accepted into the social fabric. Or at any rate, there are more of us and it’s a lot easier to make friends.

#21 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 11.25.18 at 5:08 pm

Garth, I am extremely concerned that tonight might be a very confusing and stressful time for your many readers who are delicate snowflakes in Torswampo, Ontariowe. Please let me help them.

Tonight in Edmonton the Grey Cup is being played.

“What’s that?”

Most Toronturds have no clue what this even is, or if they might have a team in the “CFL”. (Does that stand for ‘Condo Flipping League’ they wonder?) They have no idea if their team has ever won, last year or 100 years ago. The Argghh Hoes! already have the league’s lowest attendance, even after moving to a stadium half as big as their old one to avoid embarrassing pictures
of empty seats. And insecure yet pompous Torswampo residents believe they are better than the rest of us Canadians and want nothing to do with this sport, since it isn’t covered on American sports television.

That’s all fine, as expected, we don’t need them, nothing new there.

But I am deeply concerned that by midnight tonight, residents of Toronto, especially supporters of the Make Believes hockey imitators, will begin hearing news reports with bewildering, alarming words in them, such as:

“Champions!”

“Winners!”

“Rising to the challenge!”

“Not quitters!”

“Congratulations!”

“Victory!”

“Excellent team effort!”

“Superior coaching and management!”

These are obviously completely foreign concepts to the people of Toronto who have either not been alive during or have been waiting 52 years for a championship for their pathetic hockey franchise.

I am deeply concerned that there may be a serious mental health crisis later tonight among some Toronto residents due to this sudden mass onset of cognitive dissonance.

So I have some helpful suggestions for distressed Toronturds later this evening:

1. Please do not call 911. Your city needs access to emergency services at all times for your skyrocketing murder rate. (And in your own confusion, please don’t be like so many in Toronto, and kill someone)

2. Please do not call the suicide hotline. These services are already needed for people in real distress and those contemplating self-harm as they watch the value of their ‘investment properties’ turn over.

3. Instead, do call your Realtor. They are not very busy these days and rather lonely, so will be happy to spend a few hours talking with you. They will cheerfully reassure you that what makes you a “winner” is that you own a tiny tenth floor cement box in world class Toronto, and by borrowing from your mom and buying another one or two you will become “rich in the 6.”

4. Finally, as suggested yesterday by Ryan, drink lots of rum and egg nog.

#22 DON on 11.25.18 at 5:24 pm

#10 Freebird on 11.25.18 at 4:13 pm

Husband: checks our portfolio online every week or more.
Me: I scan this blog and current events etc. Read up on money and investing in general.

The compromise: we both like detail (me more so) but I focus on the long game/big picture and planning from my background. He’s a dataphile/analytical consultant numbers guy (nuclear physicist in past life.) We fight a bit (or more) then meet in the middle. Happy spouse, happy house.

Good to make money while you sleep as my brother of the Big Green bank would say.
************

My wife and I are the exact opposite. I am responsible for current events political, economics and general sentiment. I’m like the CEO of our corporation. If only I didn’t have to submit detailed business cases to the sole Member of the Board of Directors.

Better to do the following before getting married>

“Ask your partner what he or she wants. Understand why they want it. Explain yourself. Then compromise.”

#23 Dave on 11.25.18 at 5:24 pm

Women want a home for status and security. Status comes first, hence the huge market for designer handbags, clothes, shoes and yes houses.
Men want to be debt free but still own a home.
Keeping up with the Jones influences 80% of the masses, it will end badly for them.

#24 For those about to flop... on 11.25.18 at 5:30 pm

Recent sale report.

This quick flip attempt doesn’t appear to have had a happy ending.

The details…

2001 Moody ave,North Vancouver.

Paid 2.59 May 2018

Sold 2.14 November 2018

Asking 2.45

Assessment 2.48

So in by May,out by November.

Some of the databases haven’t even updated the first sale such is the lag in the system sometimes.

I still have sales from the summer pending confirmation.

Even though we now have Zealty which is an improvement,I have had numerous sales in the past couple of months not come up as cleared for public consumption.

Last week a few condos sold downtown with possible losses,still not back up on the radar.

Certain sales seem to disappear for a few months and then come up all clear as sold but no sales data.

Nobody gets to find out what happened until 9 months later.

What is going on here, data masking?

You tell me.

I will keep fighting with one hand tied behind my back.

It’s said but true that part of the population of this supposed world class city relies on a turkey from Tasmania to get its real estate updates.

If confirmed in a few months these guys left 22% or close to 600k in the recycling bin.

That will keep the city’s granola munchers happy.

People who are still trying to cash out?

This will give them the Moody Blues…

M44BC

https://www.zolo.ca/north-vancouver-real-estate/2001-moody-avenue

#25 DON on 11.25.18 at 5:34 pm

“Now that everyone’s online, social media has morphed into a destructive force, reinforcing biases and bad behaviour while making fake information mainstream.”

Could this be the subject of a future blog topic. Discussing the good and bad as it pertains to social in terms of perception and risk. How to wade through all the spin from the vested interests.

Just a thought! May help those newbies.

Canada is lucky to have Garth.
(no suck up intended – just 15yrs of observation).

#26 DON on 11.25.18 at 5:38 pm

#19 Freedom First on 11.25.18 at 5:00 pm

Any male who gets married/common law in Canada is stupid. Nothing legal can protect you. Fact. Misandry is.

Freedom First
*****************
BAM!

Perfect Timing!

Welcome back Freedom First. Hope all is well!

#27 DON on 11.25.18 at 5:44 pm

Wow?

https://www.rt.com/news/444842-hoverboard-french-military-zapata/

#28 Sam the Sham on 11.25.18 at 5:48 pm

#18 Deplorable Dude

…what about the other 80 odd genders…….;-)

————————————–

Don’t exaggerate. Everyone knows there are only 51 genders!!

#29 Trumpocalypse2018 on 11.25.18 at 5:52 pm

RED ALERT!!!

Ukraine on the cusp of WAR with Russia – Starting RIGHT NOW!!!!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/25/russia-blockades-strategic-waterway-stop-ukrainian-ships-entering/

Mueller will drop investigation bombs on Trump within days.

Trump will side with Ukraine, using war as a diversion.

Global war and catastrophe around the corner.

Could be weeks, but probably just days away.

PREPARE

#30 bellend on 11.25.18 at 6:09 pm

blog jabber ex skippystan

“She’s one half of a young couple with a new baby. We got talking because I knew they had just moved in about three months ago but hadn’t realised the whole new baby thing so mentioned to her it must have been a big move with a new bub in tow. Well, see, they’d been ‘losing’ auctions for three years. They couldn’t for the life of them work out how their two good full-time wages kept on getting outbid. Once pregnant desperation set in. Young lady had a stunned look on her face as she told me how the auction they ‘won’ played out. They knew it was ridiculous but kept bidding because bub needed a home.

$800k+ in an area they could rent a similar home for $350-360 a week. She’s telling me that even that night she was asking hubby how they can afford this with new bub. The place had been a dodgy rental beforehand as well and apparently they spent another 20-30k making it liveable for poor bub. Now they never go out. No coffees, movies, dinners,…
Her dad has jumped out of retirement to work three days a week because it costs a bit for him and nanna to drive down from the country to help out.”

so deep breath. . I read that and think dopes.
Nil sympathy or empathy…X
what the devil has happened to me?
Swinging brick for a heart and H2SO4 for lymph fluid.
#killthesebubbleswithfire

#31 GM Closing Oshawa Plant...wow! on 11.25.18 at 6:11 pm

Huge hit to RE and the economy in Durham area…this is BIG

https://twitter.com/stephaniesmyth/status/1066829441849090048

#32 Russ on 11.25.18 at 6:11 pm

CJohnC on 11.25.18 at 4:46 pm

#10 free bird “Happy spouse, happy house”

How come there is nothing that rhymes with Happy Husband?
———————————

How about?

Happy Husband. Happy disband.

Happy Husband. Happy gland. (you know the one)

Happy Husband. Happy hand.

Happy Husband. Happyland (one word, kinda cute)

Happy Husband. Happy wand (that ain’t right!)

#33 Smoking Man on 11.25.18 at 6:33 pm

If you own a home in Oshawa, you’re done.
GM leaving. So will many companies.
T2 policies scare the crap out of investors and business owners

#34 Women Want Security on 11.25.18 at 6:36 pm

There was a time that I watched a chat room because it was a learning experience. The hens would come in at midnight to talk about men, and their husbands. On occasion one of the women was pondering a divorce, and disclosed the reasons why – nasty stuff. The women all had their say, but there was always a common theme. Whatever you do be sure to get the house, and throw the bum out leaving him with not a dime to his name.

#35 Honkydonkeyblues on 11.25.18 at 6:39 pm

I recommend Elton John’s investment book, ” Men Are From Mars , Women Are From Venus, Now Let’s Discuss Uranus” .

#36 Breaking News on 11.25.18 at 6:40 pm

GM plant to close in Oshawa – more coming!

#37 renter in Surrey on 11.25.18 at 6:43 pm

is BoC going to keep rates low?

Alberta Oil Woes Could Put Poloz January Rate Hike in Jeopardy

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-23/alberta-oil-woes-could-put-poloz-january-rate-hike-in-jeopardy?srnd=premium-canada&fbclid=IwAR2jkJWae6sC9s62YB7YkKthPfnqd-0GAe5qsYz95ckKPzGtXn8oKbLPcIM

#38 dakkie on 11.25.18 at 6:43 pm

Canadian Deficit Spending SKYROCKETS! – This Won’t End Well

http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/canadian-deficit-spending-skyrockets-this-wont-end-well/

#39 SimplyPut7 on 11.25.18 at 6:47 pm

I hope this is fake news.

GM closing all operations in Oshawa, Ontario

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/gm-closing-all-operations-in-oshawa-ont-sources-1.4191935

#40 [email protected] on 11.25.18 at 7:09 pm

According to this https://business.financialpost.com/transportation/what-does-the-future-hold-for-gms-oshawa-plant-heres-a-vehicle-by-vehicle-breakdown
this is the reason why and the plan was in the works for a while, my prayers will be with all tonight.

Does USMCA stop this from happening, isn’t the cost with the low oonie attractive to keep it in Canada?

Saving grace GM plans to turn Oshawa into a global research and development hub.

#41 Stupid CONservatives sold GM shares for a song on 11.25.18 at 7:13 pm

Thanks Harper. You sold GM shares for a song and netting taxpayers $3.5 B loss. Could of held shares in GM and held some leverage. Comservatives are terribe at business

#42 Linda on 11.25.18 at 7:15 pm

It truly helps when Mars & Venus are in alignment:) The number one cause of divorce? Financial issues. Marriage is not just about love, sex, babies & family. It is also very much about finances. Historically the rich & powerful generally married for financial reasons & if love was in the mix, that was considered a bonus.

Divorce generally has an adverse economic impact on all parties. ‘Getting the house’ means getting all the expenses pertaining to owning one. Alimony only goes so far, especially if there are children in the mix. The whole point about cohabitation, be it with a significant ‘other’ or with friends/acquaintances is to pool resources.

#43 Victor V on 11.25.18 at 7:29 pm

GM closing all operations in Oshawa, Ont.: sources

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/gm-closing-all-operations-in-oshawa-ont-sources-1.4191935

Numerous sources have told CTV Toronto that General Motors is planning to close all operations in Oshawa, Ont., affecting thousands of high-paying jobs.

The announcement is expected to be made on Monday, in the city of about 159,000 people located roughly 60 kilometres east of Toronto.

Sources said they believe the Oshawa closures are part of a global restructuring.

There are currently about 2,500 union positions and roughly 300 salaried employees in the Oshawa area. GM employs many more in Ingersoll, Markham and St. Catharines. It’s unclear if those positions are affected.

#44 Craig on 11.25.18 at 7:45 pm

Re #36 , #41

2,800 jobs supposedly gone but lots of affiliated jobs will be affected as well. Also , what about the remaining jobs in St. Catharines, Ingersoll and Markham? Big ouch for Ontario if this is true.

#45 David Pylyp on 11.25.18 at 7:47 pm

Great insights!

The biggest move is during the the grade 6-7, 8-9 changes. Into or next after middle school.

Very hard later when junior voices an opinion during the purchase.

David Pylyp
Toronto

#46 NOSTRADAMUS on 11.25.18 at 7:58 pm

OFF TOPIC !
Question for the inquiring mind, why are all the banks constantly doing battle advertising their low, low, never to be seen again mortgage interest rates? Yet fail to ever, ever, advertise their used car loan, etc. rates? Call me curious. MMM, 6% +++ sounds about right. And for those a little tight on their monthly, let’s pretend and extend for ever and a day. In the unlikely event a problem should come knocking, the bank has you covered with your own personalized credit card from hell. Say hello to a 19.9% teaser interest rate, miss a payment, say hello to 29.9%. But wait, why worry, no need to go down into credit card hell. Your HELOC will solve all your problems. You can never go wrong, with real estate, you just sell your home for a big profit and wipe out your debt. Or cash out some of your profits from the stock market. Warning, there is no such thing as a banker who will allow you tap out when you have had enough. In the time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. You can trust me as the teller of truth, in the land of gypsies, tramps and thieves.

#47 End of the line! on 11.25.18 at 7:58 pm

Well if the G.M plant indeed closes and 2500 full time decent paying jobs are toast. This will be about half the ammout of jobs lost once Bombardier closes the doors at its Downsview Aircraft facility in about 3 years. There’s about 5000 employees holding down the fort. Keep in mind most have either mortgages from buying up to get better lodging. Or are ready to cash out, but have missed the boat. It’s truly the end of the line…..assembly line. Sure hope these unfortunite tax contributors have a plan “B”…. or a well balanced portfolio to keep the bankers from the door!

#48 akashic record on 11.25.18 at 8:00 pm

Wishing the best for everyone effected in Oshawa.

#49 Robotics on 11.25.18 at 8:02 pm

#43 Victor V – GM has employees on the line earning big wages and benefits in Oshawa. The modern plants have robotics in place on the assembly lines manufacturing most of the vehicle. No overtime for them, no benefit package, and they work all shifts with no coffee breaks or vacations.

#50 Headhunter on 11.25.18 at 8:03 pm

GM sad but no surprise been in the works for years.
Politics, tariffs and unstable investment environment, look at pipeline fiasco.

This will spook the herd as GM has big click bail appeal.

Batten down the hatches and hoist the sails.. rough water ahead

#51 Phylis on 11.25.18 at 8:06 pm

Bye GM, sad for Colonel Sam and all those who worked so hard.

#52 Headhunter on 11.25.18 at 8:09 pm

#49 Robotics

Automation. Great point!

#53 Sweden on 11.25.18 at 8:09 pm

Hello mr. turner, I was reading about Sweden being a cashless society basically. How many more years tilll Canada is 100% cashless? Or do you think it will never happen?
Sincerely
Alberto

#54 millmech on 11.25.18 at 8:15 pm

#44
More to come, expect more companies to repatriate back to the low cost USA.
High electricity costs, taxes, wages and benefits, it is getting too costly to do business in Canada now!

#55 For those about to flop... on 11.25.18 at 8:20 pm

Hmm, something auto related perhaps?

I can do that…

M44BC

“In One Map: Car Imports into the United States.

Now that the global trade war, started by United States President Donald Trump, is in full swing, many people want to learn the facts before passing judgement. Global trade is a complicated problem and it may be easier to understand the issue piecemeal. Take a look at the infographic below to see the countries that exported vehicles to the U.S. in 2017.

In the graphic above, every country that imported autos into the United States in 2017 is represented by a circle containing the flag and map of that country. The larger the value of vehicle exports to the U.S., the largest the circle of a country becomes. The data were collected from the International Trade Centre’s Trade Map and the U.S. Census Bureau.

Top 5 Car Exporters to U.S.

Canada: $43.8 billion

Japan: $40.7 billion

Mexico: $30.6 billion

Germany: $20.8 billion

South Korea: $16.1 billion

The value of imports from Canada and Mexico are the first and third highest at $43.8 billion and $30.6 billion respectively. This may explain why President Donald Trump has been so eager to rewrite the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). The agreement used to allow auto manufacturers to move production facilities across North America and import vehicles back to the U.S. In order to qualify for a 0% tariff, a complicated set of requirements had to be met. Trump’s new U.S.-Mexico-Canada trade agreement, announced September 30, 2018, will incentivize automakers to build in the U.S. and stipulates that more parts must be sourced from North America.

Most of the countries on the infographic have large, advanced economies and can therefore manufacture and export high-quality vehicles to the United States. The one exception to the rule in Mexico, which is able to export vehicles to the U.S. because of NAFTA and the presence of U.S. automakers. Auto imports from Japan, known for its very high-quality vehicles, are worth the second most at $40.7bn. When taken as a whole, vehicle imports from the European Union in 2017 totaled around $43.3bn (€37.4bn), nearly tying for first place with Canada.

The majority of vehicles for sale in the United States come from foreign countries. Some will argue that lower tariffs will allow more imports from abroad and therefore more choices for consumers. Others will argue that higher tariffs should be used to promote domestic production and therefore more jobs for Americans. Either way, if you’re looking to support U.S. business by buying locally, it may be harder than you think to buy an all American car.”

17 October 2018

Visualization

https://howmuch.net/articles/usa-car-imports-2017

#56 reynolds531 on 11.25.18 at 8:22 pm

Well here in London, Ford closed. Kellogg’s closed. Caterpillar closed. We’re just waiting on cami and then everyone can work a mcjob.

#57 Windsor on 11.25.18 at 8:26 pm

#47 End of the line – Windsor will be next because looked at one the other day that the PM visited, and its filled with employees but few robotics in place. Then went to Mexico to see the assembly lines of VW and Ford. All robotics with few employees in sight, unless they were having lunch lol. Now why didn’t our brilliant free trade experts look at the competition?

#58 Sorry Not Ford on 11.25.18 at 8:32 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqFv3FRrMl0
This one instead of Ford.

#59 Ronaldo on 11.25.18 at 8:33 pm

Twice this year my wife has had a conniption over the drops in the markets which affected our portfolios about 3% or so. Both times had to sit her down and explain to her that the portfolios are well balanced and compared to other portfolios they are very conservative and would recover as they usually do. I also reminded her that our home has increased in value by a couple hundred thousand in the last couple of years so that is a pretty nice buffer against anything major happening in the markets. Very conservative that girl. Am definitely the more risky in this partnership.

#60 Shawn Allen on 11.25.18 at 8:41 pm

Robots replace workers?

Investors must therefore position to own robots. Own the best manufacturers that use robots. Look into robot makers.

The three factors of production are land, labour and capital (machines, robots, software, buildings, AI and more).

The right kind of capital is increasingly the most valuable and crucial factor. You must own it. Trade your labor for cash (while you can) and invest some cash in capital so that someday you can survive without doing any labor.

#61 islander on 11.25.18 at 8:48 pm

You nailed it with this post Garth, but yikes, haven’t we seen that picture before??

#62 AK on 11.25.18 at 8:48 pm

#54 millmech on 11.25.18 at 8:15 pm
“More to come, expect more companies to repatriate back to the low cost USA.
High electricity costs, taxes, wages and benefits, it is getting too costly to do business in Canada now!”

===================================

And no useless carbon tax crap.

#63 Google VP of nothingless on 11.25.18 at 8:50 pm

Garth, if you were a Google employee you would have been fired for saying men and women were different.

#64 TurnerNation on 11.25.18 at 8:55 pm

#30 bell this insane 1.15m semi:

https://torontolife.com/real-estate/houses/toronto-house-sold-149-monarch-park-avenue/

OR…same area rent same looking house very nice inside merely for $3000 a month. A few steps to local subway station

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20087953/3-bedroom-single-family-house-152-milverton-blvd-toronto-danforth

OR..splurge a few g more and get a reno’d SFH – again same area. Steps to subway train,

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20061477/3-bedroom-single-family-house-18-caithness-ave-toronto-danforth

PEAK INSANITY IS HERE. Millennials don’t stand a chance. Peak housing and Peak Bitcoin got ’em.

A nation of drugged out debt slaves. I can hear our elite rulers roaring with their laughter. Totally programmed via media.

#65 Shawn Allen on 11.25.18 at 8:58 pm

Your wife does not want to hear about losses

#59 Ronaldo on 11.25.18 at 8:33 pm

Twice this year my wife has had a conniption over the drops in the markets which affected our portfolios about 3% or so.

**************************************
Next time don’t tell her. She does not want to know anyhow in most cases. Wait till the portfolio is up. THEN mention it.

#66 Ronaldo on 11.25.18 at 9:06 pm

#65 Shawn Allen on 11.25.18 at 8:58 pm
Your wife does not want to hear about losses

#59 Ronaldo on 11.25.18 at 8:33 pm

Twice this year my wife has had a conniption over the drops in the markets which affected our portfolios about 3% or so.

**************************************
Next time don’t tell her. She does not want to know anyhow in most cases. Wait till the portfolio is up. THEN mention it.
————————————————————–
Quite the opposite. She told me.

#67 cmj on 11.25.18 at 9:08 pm

I think that couples who come to speak to an adviser are already ahead of the game. Statistics say that women will live longer than men. Women have to be more involved with the actual creation of the portfolio. My daughter in law wants nothing to do with finances. Too bad, so sad

#68 TurnerNation on 11.25.18 at 9:10 pm

The rumors about GM. Just life in a 2nd World
de-industrialized United Nations open air kamp. T2 admitted as much. Post national.
Crashed our currency, housing and debt is next. Worthless paper to be sloshed around; ABCP all over again; Et tu, Blog Dog Poloz?

#69 yvr_lurker on 11.25.18 at 9:11 pm

I understand the sentiment for stability, and having a “permanent” home. I moved 13 times in the 19 years before I left home for college. Raised by a single-mother who did her best, but was difficult for her having to eat crow in some jobs with abusive bosses; had to bring in a pay-cheque. Made me super competitive, disciplined, and goal oriented to succeed, but on the other hand rather risk averse. One does not forget their roots. I can imagine one needs a minor in psychology to be a financial advisor…

#70 AK on 11.25.18 at 9:18 pm

#56 reynolds531 on 11.25.18 at 8:22 pm
“Well here in London, Ford closed. Kellogg’s closed. Caterpillar closed. We’re just waiting on cami and then everyone can work a mcjob.”
=====================================

No need to worry. They will convert all the plants to massive weed dispensaries. It’s all good.

#71 millmech on 11.25.18 at 9:22 pm

Anyone else notice all the Big 5 are opening up operations like crazy in the USA. Do not be fool to think that they are not thinking of moving their operations there also. Just follow the money, the big US banks do not want up in our small market as much as the Big 5 want into the US market only a matter of time before they move operations down south.

#72 Stan Brooks is a Kook on 11.25.18 at 9:35 pm

#21 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 11.25.18 at 5:08

aka Stanley “Madman” Brooks

Hey Stanley. Sorry, I didn’t watch the Grey Cup because I was watching the Toronto Raptors beating Miami and keeping their number 1 spot in the NBA. Let’s see, what other Canadian city has an NBA franchise….. Were you in the mental ward already Stanley when the Jays won back to back World Series in the 90s. Let’s see what other Canadian city has a Major League baseball team….. Hey, those incompetent Leafs you like to bash are one of the top teams in the NHL. Nice thrashing of Philadelphia Saturday night without their big guy Auston Matthews or other top player, William Nylander. Go back to your rubber room you mindless moron. Spewing your hatred here just proves how deranged you are. You are a pathetic loser….

#73 NoName on 11.25.18 at 9:39 pm

Robots, automation and few deep thoughts.

I cant believe that grate minds of comment section forgot that Oshava plant was on a chopping block last contract, you just have to use gargler and serch for it, if you don’t believe me.

Here is news from 2016.

https://www.680news.com/2016/06/21/oshawa-general-motors-employees-launch-campaign-save-plant/

Did i ever told you how i was lecturing my uncle for 20min in wally world because he didnt want to wait in line for cashier because, we only had 3 items and self checkout was faster. I made him watch terminator 2 intro on my cellphone, not once but 3 times, while we were waiting.

Maybe i’am Luddite but i just dont know that yet…

#74 Jimmy on 11.25.18 at 9:50 pm

What a great evening!

Great Cup

Freedom First

Smoking Man

“…more concerned with performance” talk

Oh yeah!

#75 Family Beatdown on 11.25.18 at 9:52 pm

Oshawa RE doesn’t need GM. Toronto commuters will easily fill in the vacant homes. RE is strong and it will carry on. Just watch.

#76 Dolce Vita on 11.25.18 at 9:57 pm

About Oshawa.

We’ll see now if Jason Kenney’s prediction that Ottawa will be all over this to save auto in reference to his complaining that Trudeau does not care about AB, its pipelines and oil price “5 alarm fire” as he calls it.

#77 Dolce Vita on 11.25.18 at 10:07 pm

Well Garth, very good to read I am not the only “Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus” keen observer “out there”.

It sure spoke to me back in ’92. Short book. Easy to understand.

Here we are in 2018 still talking about it.

It’s simple:

Men are into things.

Women are into people.

Great combination. It does not get better than that.
——————————

PS:

Good Calgary beat Ottawa. Some AB retribution for its oil industry woes.

#78 PastThePeak on 11.25.18 at 10:29 pm

I can’t believe that Ottawa lost to Calgary in the Grey Cup! I mean we have Justin the Great as a resident in our fine city (well, when he isn’t traveling that is…which seems to be all the time…but never mind)! How could this happen???? Maybe T2 can have the feds purchase the Grey Cup and give it to Ottawa since the private sector clearly can’t get the job done…

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sorry to hear about Oshawa, but I think the writing has been on the wall about that for awhile. Auto manufacturing has been declining in Ontario for a couple decades, and in current climate there is nothing to change that. In a few years, auto companies will only have the the bare minimum necessary to be able to sell in the market here.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On a positive note, the recent fed fiscal update provided money for both (select) media and environmental NGOs, so there will be an increase in employment in these government sanctioned areas.

#79 Leslie Durham on 11.25.18 at 10:36 pm

Congratulations to Calgary! Stamps win the Cup and Flames playing very well! The Redblacks lose and the Sens and not playing well. Now Oshawa. Time for Kenney and Scheer to lead Canada’s focus to where there is Strength and that is Alberta!

#80 Cowtown Cowboy on 11.25.18 at 10:41 pm

A couple 1000 jobs in ON go bye-bye…Big Deal

Alberta’s lost 10’s of thousands…welcome to the suck ON

Don’t worry, Capt’n socks has your back.

#81 Jason on 11.25.18 at 10:48 pm

I’ve had problems with that Stash study since it was released a few months ago. It doesn’t really prove anything in my opinion. All it says is women held and men sold. It doesn’t say anything with regards to investment or trading strategies and risk management. Maybe those guys who sold weren’t “panicking” but cutting their losses short, which is a very legitimate strategy and important aspect of risk management. Isn’t that more “calculated” then blindly holding onto a losing investment hoping it’s going to turn around for you? How “sensible” is it to hold onto a falling stock when you can sell it for a small loss and hold cash waiting for when things turn around? I religiously sell any stock I’m down 5% on. Sure that stock might turn around and come right back up, but often it doesn’t and I’m glad I sold it earlier. When I sell at a 5% loss that means I only have to make 5.25% on my next trade to make that money back. That’s easy, especially when my avg return on my winning trades is 13%. During the last financial crisis it took the S&P almost 6 years to make it’s losses back. After the dot-com bust it took almost 8 years. I bet holding into that put a few retirement plans on hold. What do I know though, I’m just some guy.

A balanced portfolio recovered in one year. – Garth

#82 Dolce Vita on 11.25.18 at 11:16 pm

Not looking good.

Some (on Twitter, grain of salt here) estimating Oshawa closure will affect 20,000 jobs incl. spin offs.

Looks like Trump made good on his Chevy Impala threat via “GM Global Restructuring”.

TD Economics reckons if depressed tar sands oil prices continue, shave off 0.5% from GDP this Qtr. alone; although, they believe prices will normalize by early next year (pie in the sky).

Why pie in the sky?

Large International firms have written off their tar sands assets or have sold their stake outright and that as of early-2017 (StatOil, Koch Bros., Imperial Oil, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, Marathon Oil, Royal Dutch Shell).

Trudeau getting his wish: “…managed decline of the industry and a just transition for workers and communities affected by the shift to a clean economy”.

Writing was on the wall for both auto and oil. Not a thing done other than platitudes.

Now we will all have to pay.

I wonder if Trust Fund Trudeau will tearfully apologize to people in Oshawa and Albertan’s?

It has to get better than this.

#83 Rexx Rock on 11.25.18 at 11:33 pm

DELETED

#84 Mel on 11.25.18 at 11:38 pm

Well Garth, I agree in principal about the difference
between women and men.

However, as for me, I get lonely when prices are high.
Get very excited when prices are going down. It gets
very lonely to share my excitement and optimism with people.

My womanly instincts are always long term in nature.
Always weighs pros and cons before investing.

My husband is told all he needs to know,good or bad.
However, since he panics easily and is the one who is afraid to live under bridge, I don’t share all details.

It has worked over 44 years, why change it now.

#85 Dolce Vita on 11.25.18 at 11:47 pm

“ECONOMIC IMPACT OF GM OPERATIONS IN OSHAWA”, Unifor, Mar. 2015, Table 1 Summary of High and Low Case Scenarios:

https://i.imgur.com/BA3JJYb.jpg

They believe:

“After about a six year adjustment process, GDP in Canada is still permanently lower than it would have been without the plant closure.”

They opine that people will eventually find jobs, average wage decline in ON permanently affected by $300/ year and that the Feds and Province will see $1 billion in lost revenue per year, permanently.

Scary stuff from just a single plant closure. Maybe, that was their intent.

Well, will find out for sure now if Unifor was correct.

#86 Jacky Dangerous on 11.26.18 at 1:00 am

#3 Flaming Loon, douse the hair fire, turn down the volume on Radio Canada and ingest some fact.

https://www.amazon.com/Climategate-Veteran-Meteorologist-Exposes-Warming/dp/1935071831?fbclid=IwAR3G_XZRz8qjFT_JBSVLEyEYldvbKpPmkH07-bkijCFiPgQx649ns6xp6vY

The East Anglia email dump proved without doubt the the only conspiracy afoot was within the ivory tower of wealth distribution fanatics. Zero evidence of any climate change.

#87 Smoking Man on 11.26.18 at 1:42 am

DELETED

#88 TRUMP on 11.26.18 at 2:27 am

CHEAP RE IN OSHAWA ON THE WAY.

THE FLAMES ARE COMING TO CALGARY WHEN OIL HITS 30 BUCKS.

OH THE GREAT GOVERNMENT WE HAVE.

#89 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 2:33 am

T2’s policies in action.

The ‘star’ financial minister just lost another investment while deliberating on whether to have tax cuts for manufacturers or not. Apparently the renewed NAFTA is not good enough neither are the tax cut crumbs that the financial minister announced triumphantly to keep auto manufacturers here.

General Motors to close Oshawa plant, affecting thousands of jobs.

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/mayor-oshawa-ont-hopes-report-010331802.html

But no worries, BoC is on the line to buy all ‘super quality’ mortgages underwritten by our most-prudent-in-the-world banks that no private bank, or even CHMC would touch with a stick not to mention about private investors.

For the purpose of diversification of their balance-sheet apparently.

The most amazing piece of massaging and spinning the facts, representing the black as white, lies as truth, recklessness as responsibility.

It won’t help us much apart from the fact that the crash/when it comes will appear sudden and out of nowhere.

…Nobody could have predicted, blah blah….

It is interesting that banks are also engaging in damage control with their ‘soft landing’ non sense.

If it looks like coordinated sting/that credit bubble, it most likely is.

#90 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 2:40 am

Note that in front of the GM plant in Oshawa about to be closed there is a sign: “Innovation lives here”.

As we are very heavy on innovation lately including on having a minister of innovation, in addition to legalization of MJ and the startup that will kill the Apple iPhone with analog watch (worthy of mention in Yahoo’s Canadian innovation of the month article) here is another piece of innovation and entrepreneurship, worthy of T2’s policies and wise leadership:

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/shadows-montreal-porn-exec-bella-french-changing-industry-within-145404267.html

#91 Frank The Tank on 11.26.18 at 6:45 am

My wife is very much low risk and favors security. She doesn’t care about being rich, she just doesn’t want to be poor. I too am cautious and thus have a 60/40 balanced portfolio. It’s what we are both comfortable with.

Funny enough, my wife doesn’t HAVE to own a home (we do), it’s actually me that wants it for our family. I think it’s from my immigrant family background and how much they value home ownership.

#92 MF on 11.26.18 at 7:06 am

GM:

If the decision to close is confirmed today, it’s definitely bad news. Bad news for Ontario, for Canada, and of course for the workers affected.

This does feel a little like the closing of Sears did, however. If I look around at my circle of friends I see that most drive foreign cars, usually Japanese. Personally I haven’t bought a GM car in decades. They dropped the ball years ago when it became apparent fuel efficiency was a thing. It feels similar to Sears before it closed, when you would be hard pressed to find someone who bought something there.

I’m not going to point fingers at unions and regulations, or the Liberal government like others on here are doing. I blame GM management for poor decision making. The workers are the unfortunate ones who are paying the price.

MF

#93 Realtor in Oshawaaaaaaaaah! on 11.26.18 at 7:15 am

HURRY!

Detached particle board paradise homes now on sale for only $400-500K in this spectacular suburban enclave.

THESE PRICES WON’T LAST!!!!

#94 Sebee on 11.26.18 at 7:34 am

Garth,

Normally you highlight tax optimization strategies. Why don’t you point out here that marriage is a bad tax strategy? Isn’t it?

#95 The boulder on 11.26.18 at 7:43 am

I am a man from Venus, and she is from Mars :)

#96 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 7:59 am

@#24 Flop
“Certain sales seem to disappear for a few months and then come up all clear as sold but no sales data.

Nobody gets to find out what happened until 9 months later.

What is going on here, data masking?”
+++++

Yep.
The Real Estate information cartel pulling out all the stops on trying to mask whats really going on….

They cant hide it forever.

Happy Housing Crash everyone

#97 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 8:03 am

@#31 GM Closing Ont. Plant

Why assemble in Ontario for $35/hr when you can do it in Georgia for $18 ?
Trudeau’s NAFTA-Light begins to show its “value”?

#98 Tater on 11.26.18 at 8:11 am

#21 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 11.25.18 at 5:08 pm
Garth, I am extremely concerned that tonight might be a very confusing and stressful time for your many readers who are delicate snowflakes in Torswampo, Ontariowe. Please let me help them.

Tonight in Edmonton the Grey Cup is being played.

“What’s that?”

Most Toronturds have no clue what this even is, or if they might have a team in the “CFL”. (Does that stand for ‘Condo Flipping League’ they wonder?) They have no idea if their team has ever won, last year or 100 years ago. The Argghh Hoes! already have the league’s lowest attendance, even after moving to a stadium half as big as their old one to avoid embarrassing pictures
of empty seats. And insecure yet pompous Torswampo residents believe they are better than the rest of us Canadians and want nothing to do with this sport, since it isn’t covered on American sports television.

That’s all fine, as expected, we don’t need them, nothing new there.

But I am deeply concerned that by midnight tonight, residents of Toronto, especially supporters of the Make Believes hockey imitators, will begin hearing news reports with bewildering, alarming words in them, such as:

“Champions!”

“Winners!”

“Rising to the challenge!”

“Not quitters!”

“Congratulations!”

“Victory!”

“Excellent team effort!”

“Superior coaching and management!”

These are obviously completely foreign concepts to the people of Toronto who have either not been alive during or have been waiting 52 years for a championship for their pathetic hockey franchise.

I am deeply concerned that there may be a serious mental health crisis later tonight among some Toronto residents due to this sudden mass onset of cognitive dissonance.

So I have some helpful suggestions for distressed Toronturds later this evening:

1. Please do not call 911. Your city needs access to emergency services at all times for your skyrocketing murder rate. (And in your own confusion, please don’t be like so many in Toronto, and kill someone)

2. Please do not call the suicide hotline. These services are already needed for people in real distress and those contemplating self-harm as they watch the value of their ‘investment properties’ turn over.

3. Instead, do call your Realtor. They are not very busy these days and rather lonely, so will be happy to spend a few hours talking with you. They will cheerfully reassure you that what makes you a “winner” is that you own a tiny tenth floor cement box in world class Toronto, and by borrowing from your mom and buying another one or two you will become “rich in the 6.”

4. Finally, as suggested yesterday by Ryan, drink lots of rum and egg nog.
—————————————————————–

Imagine how sad this person’s life is.

#99 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 8:11 am

@#93 Realtor in Oshawaaaah
“These deals wont last….”
+++++

Good one.

#100 Trumpocalypse2018 on 11.26.18 at 8:12 am

7 Minutes of Terror – just hours away.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46333459

Today is the beginning of the hurricane.

PREPARE

#101 jess on 11.26.18 at 8:20 am

truth is always the sunlight.

How many men were using a credit card to pay child support?

https://www.icij.org/investigations/implant-files/

common causes for foreclosures
The 5D’s
https://www.citywidehomeloans.com/common-causes-foreclosure/
==================================
Tony Clement reflects on ‘dire situation’ that led to 2009 auto bailout
‘We weren’t bailing out a particular company, we were rescuing an industry,’ former industry minister says
Dexter Brown · CBC News · Posted: Sep 16, 2018 5:00 AM ET | Last Updated: September 16
‘Dire situation’

Now looking back, Tony Clement, the federal industry minister during the crisis, told CBC Toronto the government wasn’t just concerned about the auto industry being hit by job losses, but other related industries as well.

“It was a dire situation. We calculated the potential job losses in Canada of upward of 400,000,” Clement recalled.

“We looked at it from the point of view, we weren’t bailing out a particular company, we were rescuing an industry on a time-limited basis.”

#102 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:34 am

@#33 Smoking Man on 11.25.18 at 6:33 pm
If you own a home in Oshawa, you’re done.
GM leaving. So will many companies.
T2 policies scare the crap out of investors and business owners
________________________
pfft, oshawa hasn’t relied on gm to carry their economy for years. T2 policies have nothing to do with gm’s worldwide restructure – its a failing business.

#103 miketheengineer on 11.26.18 at 9:00 am

Garth et al:

GM closing Oshawa.

It is a sad day. I know people who work there. It touches me, I get angry, I feel sad. It makes me wonder where all the government money went to keep the plant open? It fustrates me. The US President wants to make USA great again. What do the Canadian leaders do…? mmmm makes you wonder doesn’t it.

I have one thing to say to all Canadians. If GM doesn’t produce here, DON’T PURCHASE GM PRODUCTS.

We won’t be able to stop the closing. I feel bad for all the 2500 people dependant on that plant. I feel sorry for the 25000 to 50000 people it will affect. I feel sorry for the government who won’t be collecting income taxes…

Ontario and Oshawa will feel the affects of this….make no mistake….this is no joke.

#104 TurnerNation on 11.26.18 at 9:08 am

A few months ago I posted that Magna auto parts of Aurora opened plants in Mexico and a joint venture in China. Why pay inflated utility and wages in Kanada?
Expect them to flee. GTA will be a mess.

Laws still being rolled back. Surprised they didn’t claim this law unfairly targeted “marginalized and vulnerable people”.
Just provide a fake name to the loss prevention person and you are free to go.
Expect higher grocery prices in this open air asylum.
Drug dealers and criminals get all the rights and safe injection sites make for good business in your neighborhood.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/11/25/first-time-shoplifters-wont-be-charged-by-toronto-police-in-pilot-project.html

#105 Another Deckchair on 11.26.18 at 9:28 am

@97 Fartie:

“Why assemble in Ontario for $35/hr when you can do it in Georgia for $18 ?”

The costs in Canada are obviously too high for this kind of manufacturing.

If the loonie goes to 0.50c US, the economy will change, and maybe manufacturing will have a future.

What’ll happen, though, are all the people who “have” to go south for a warm vacation, who “have” to have the latest and greatest foreign produced goods, and who “need” two or three cars to get around, and “have” to have an iPhone and a great data plan.

I know, it’s TOUGH to go down in purchasing power. We are used to paying other people or countries to prepare things for us, and to not bother doing it ourselves.

Maybe it is time to change. (or, maybe I just need a coffee and a hug!)

#106 Smoking Man on 11.26.18 at 10:09 am

102 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:34 am
@#33 Smoking Man on 11.25.18 at 6:33 pm
If you own a home in Oshawa, you’re done.
GM leaving. So will many companies.
T2 policies scare the crap out of investors and business owners
________________________
pfft, oshawa hasn’t relied on gm to carry their economy for years. T2 policies have nothing to do with gm’s worldwide restructure – its a failing business.
……

It’s just the start. When your biggest trading partner deregulats, cuts corp taxes, will not sign onto the Paris Accord. The price on carbon that the UN enventluy wants will bankrupt everyone.

When you look at the Canadian political map. MadMax will split the vote enough and T2 gets four more years to bring in the UNs mandate to destroy capitalism.

What company in there right mind will stick around for this shit show.
Not to mention all the newly schoold communists coming out of universities.

Zero long term benefits for investing in a country that wants to eat the rich.

#107 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 10:13 am

@#98 Tater on 11.26.18 at 8:11 am
#21 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 11.25.18 at 5:08 pm—————————————————————–

Imagine how sad this person’s life is.

______________________________

It’s gotta be stan brooks alter ego.

#108 PastThePeak on 11.26.18 at 10:25 am

It has begun.

Canada is the equivalent of the walking wounded, but it just doesn’t know it yet. At the surface, things are still looking OK. But underneath, we have taken on a number of wounds, most of them self inflicted.

This isn’t “doomsday” stuff – markets and housing are not going down 60-80% as ol’ Stan would have you believe – but the end result is going to be a pretty severe recession, worse than the early 90s IMO, and it will greatly test Canadian unity. When of course is the key question, and we don’t know, but as GOT fans will say, “winter is coming”.

The self inflicted wounds:
– Private debt (consumer and business) to GDP ratios are “yuge”. BoC and “the people” did it. De-leveraging will happen.
– Government policies which have made it almost impossible to build just about anything (bill C-69 the icing on the cake)
– High marginal personal taxes (over 50% on income that is just above $200K) will ensure a steady exodus of talent in STEM industries.
– Regulatory burden on all businesses (but proportionately affecting small ones) is a severe detriment to starting & growing – a bigger problem than the tax rate.
– Across the board now – from labour, to taxes, to regulations, to growth – Canada is less favourable than the US as a place to invest
– The assault on Canada’s energy industry (playing out as we speak)
– Energy costs in many provinces have risen dramatically, and are a burden on both consumers and business. Nothing can fix this in the short term, and most aren’t looking.
– Government debt situation is worse than most understand. The fed & provincial debts are only looked at in isolation, rather than considering them as a whole (as there is only one taxpayer). Canada’s debt (feds/provinces/munis) isn’t far off 100% of GDP (next recession will get us there).

There is no way this can be avoided, unfortunately. Doesn’t matter if T2 gets booted out or not (not looking likely, which will certainly make things worse in the long run). Ontario PC’s are making some good changes on the fiscal front, but the hole is so big, it is hard to see that much progress can be made in 4 years. Ditto for AB.

Pay down your debts & consider the amount of maple in your portfolio is about all the individual can do (and always try to minimize the amount of tax the gov’t can get from you).

#109 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 10:31 am

#107 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 10:13 am
@#98 Tater on 11.26.18 at 8:11 am
#21 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 11.25.18 at 5:08 pm—————————————————————–

Imagine how sad this person’s life is.

______________________________

It’s gotta be stan brooks alter ego.

Stan Brooks is enjoying the show over a glass of Irish Whiskey.

Sadness is the last thing that I can relate my state of mind to, schadenfreude being the first.

Here is where the depressed folks are:

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-why-are-vancouver-and-toronto-so-unhappy

Vancouver and Toronto feature the four factors most correlated with Canadian unhappiness, according to a groundbreaking study out of UBC’s Vancouver School of Economics and McGill University.

Metro Vancouver and Toronto are known for the qualities that characterize the country’s least happy regions: Long traffic commutes, stratospheric housing prices, high population densities and large proportions of foreign-born residents

Cheers and enjoy paying the mortgage, folks.

#110 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 10:41 am

#108 PastThePeak on 11.26.18 at 10:25 am

Housing will go down 60-70 % from the peak, it is inevitable. I never said TSX will go down that much, I said there are plenty of other, better options to invest.

For example: emerging markets are up 2 % today, Europe and US 1.6 %, TXS 0.6 %. When the numbers speak even the gods are silent.

Don’t get me wrong: I don’t really want Canada to be miserable, that is a direct outcome from very bad policies that start to unravel rather quickly, accompanied by very hostile international environment that we can’t adapt to.

Things will be much worse than the average Joe is expecting.

#111 anonymous on 11.26.18 at 11:09 am

GM and those employees with their eyes open knew this day would come. How can a company continue to produce gas guzzlers when there is an obvious shift in the market? Never mind the fact the factory does not produce electric or hybrid vehicles, it does not produce SUV’s which are a huge source of profit. I was shocked to see all it produces are dated car models and final assembly for two trucks.

The fact remains the company was poorly run, has a terrible reputation and was an early pioneer of trying to defeat the electric car. Is this the type of businesses we want in our community?

#112 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 11:35 am

#102 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:34 am

pfft, oshawa hasn’t relied on gm to carry their economy for years. T2 policies have nothing to do with gm’s worldwide restructure – its a failing business.
______

Agreed, GM Oshawa is nothing compared to what it used to be, but closing up this plant will definitely be a kick in Oshawa’s, Ontario’s, and Canada’s pants one way or another.

The ripple effects will cost thousands of more jobs and billions in lost earnings and revenues that will not be easily or quickly replaced (if ever).

The changes hitting the auto industry are the same for all the manufacturers – expect more of the same yet to come.

#113 For those about to flop... on 11.26.18 at 11:40 am

Gold ,silver and bronze healthcare.

Don’t tell the IOC or else they will want their cut…

M44BC

“Visualizing Where Obamacare Rates Are Exploding.

Open enrollment for health insurance plans under the Affordable Care Act, also called Obamacare, will last until December 15, 2018. Unless you get insurance through your employer, you might be in for a surprise.

We crunched some numbers from a report by the Urban Institute, a nonprofit research organization dedicated to injecting facts into the public discourse. If you aren’t familiar with Obamacare, the first thing you should know is that health insurance plans fall into different tiersbased on your total out-of-pocket expense for healthcare. Bronze plans are generally the cheapest because they provide minimal coverage, and at the other end of the spectrum, platinum plans provide rock-solid coverage but for a high price. Silver and gold plans fall between these two extremes. They offer a decent level of protection without such a comparably high cost. Our analysis focuses on monthly premiums for the lowest cost silver and gold plans for a 40-year-old healthy male.

The cost of basic health insurance in the U.S. is indeed extremely expensive. Keep in mind these are all monthly figures, meaning some people are spending well over $6,000 just on insurance premiums. But here’s the kicker. State governments play a large role in subsidizing the markets (or not), leading to wide-ranging price disparities between comparable states in the same region. Consider for example Wyoming ($860), by far the most expensive state in the West. Moving directly south to Colorado and purchasing the same type of policy would save you $5,364 each year. Rhode Island takes first place as the most affordable state at only $287, but most states fall into the $400-$500 range.

Overall the marketplace for silver insurance plans looks very uneven. There isn’t really a clear pattern, suggesting that specific prices depend almost entirely on specific state regulations and subsidies.

Prices for gold plans appear similarly scattered and geographically dependent. Some states have significantly higher costs compared to their silver plans, like Tennessee ($910), the most expensive in the country. And yet Rhode Island remains one of the cheapest marketplaces at only $300, an increase of just $13 from silver.

We should point out that some silver plans actually cost more than gold plans for a few states, like Wyoming ($860 for silver vs $710 for gold). There are some complicated reasons why, but part of the explanation has to do with how the government provides preferential tax subsidiesto silver plans. Insurers want to raise those rates to increase subsidies. President Trump also ended a provision related to cost sharing reductions, which drove up rates for silver plans.

We’ll end by pointing out an insight from behavioral economics called price framing. If you were initially shocked to see how expensive health insurance costs in every state, our guess is that you think states like Rhode Island ($287) and North Dakota ($293) aren’t so pricey after all. That’s because we are comparing their rates with much more expensive states, making them seem like a better bargain. In reality, according to the Kaiser Foundation, the average cost for a worker participating in an employer-sponsored plan is only $118 a month, or $1,415 per year. That’s a significantly lower cost and a powerful incentive for sticking with an employer.”

25 November 2018

Visualization

https://howmuch.net/articles/obamacare-health-insurance-costs-in-every-state

#114 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 11:50 am

@#109 Stan Brooks on 11.26.18 at 10:31 am
#107 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 10:13 am
@#98 Tater on 11.26.18 at 8:11 am
#21 50 YEARS OF MAPLE LEAF INCOMPETENCE! on 11.25.18 at 5:08 pm—————————————————————–

Imagine how sad this person’s life is.

______________________________

It’s gotta be stan brooks alter ego.

Stan Brooks is enjoying the show over a glass of Irish Whiskey.

Sadness is the last thing that I can relate my state of mind to, schadenfreude being the first.

Here is where the depressed folks are:

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-why-are-vancouver-and-toronto-so-unhappy

Vancouver and Toronto feature the four factors most correlated with Canadian unhappiness, according to a groundbreaking study out of UBC’s Vancouver School of Economics and McGill University.

Metro Vancouver and Toronto are known for the qualities that characterize the country’s least happy regions: Long traffic commutes, stratospheric housing prices, high population densities and large proportions of foreign-born residents

Cheers and enjoy paying the mortgage, folks.
_______________________________________

denial is the first sign that you have a problem stan :)

#115 Sebee on 11.26.18 at 11:53 am

>>I am a man from Venus, and she is from Mars :)

Anyone out there from Manus?

#116 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 11:53 am

@#112 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 11:35 am
#102 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:34 am

pfft, oshawa hasn’t relied on gm to carry their economy for years. T2 policies have nothing to do with gm’s worldwide restructure – its a failing business.
______

Agreed, GM Oshawa is nothing compared to what it used to be, but closing up this plant will definitely be a kick in Oshawa’s, Ontario’s, and Canada’s pants one way or another.

The ripple effects will cost thousands of more jobs and billions in lost earnings and revenues that will not be easily or quickly replaced (if ever).

The changes hitting the auto industry are the same for all the manufacturers – expect more of the same yet to come.
________________________________

no doubt.
If the past decade+ has shown us anything, its that manufacturing as a career choice is a poor one.
I would have taken 2008 as apretty good hint to re-educate

#117 Sebee on 11.26.18 at 11:55 am

Ford said he’s disappointed with GM.

Tough situation, but that’s a funny headline.

#118 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 12:00 pm

#97 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.26.18 at 8:03 am
@#31 GM Closing Ont. Plant

Why assemble in Ontario for $35/hr when you can do it in Georgia for $18 ?
Trudeau’s NAFTA-Light begins to show its “value”?
____

Or in Mexico for 3.00/hr – same level of workmanship, no Union, squat for benefits, no meddling government (quite the opposite) etc…

#119 Benoit Quenaudon on 11.26.18 at 12:13 pm

One whom wants to thrive must ask his wife first.

#120 Fish on 11.26.18 at 12:36 pm

Thunder Bay Delta Mariott opening delayed again

Project under construction for nearly five years

Jeff Walters · CBC News · Posted: Nov 26, 2018 7:30 AM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/thunder-bay-delta-mariott-hotel-opening-delay-1.4918675

#121 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 12:38 pm

#111 anonymous on 11.26.18 at 11:09 am
GM and those employees with their eyes open knew this day would come. How can a company continue to produce gas guzzlers when there is an obvious shift in the market? Never mind the fact the factory does not produce electric or hybrid vehicles, it does not produce SUV’s which are a huge source of profit. I was shocked to see all it produces are dated car models and final assembly for two trucks.

The fact remains the company was poorly run, has a terrible reputation and was an early pioneer of trying to defeat the electric car. Is this the type of businesses we want in our community?
——

Wow, just a few corrections:

1. GM does indeed produce many SUV’s

2. The North American market shift is TOWARDS gas guzzlers (SUV’s and Trucks). Ford has only two cars in their lines up here now for the same reason (and one of those cars is a gas guzzler).

3. GM does indeed produce hybrid and full electric vehicles.

Despite the press – this is mainly about manufacturing costs. Canada lost it’s last advantage over the US when Trump cut taxes. Our wages are way higher than the Southern US, and super way higher than Mexico. Those two places will be much harder for Unifor to infiltrate as well.

GM has done pretty well holding costs down in the 21st century up till now, the exodus from unionized rates and benefits was a long time coming. If it weren’t for Federal handouts, they would have been gone 10 years ago.

#122 For those about to flop... on 11.26.18 at 12:46 pm

#115 Sebee on 11.26.18 at 11:53 am
>>I am a man from Venus, and she is from Mars :)

Anyone out there from Manus?

////////////////////

No ,but I’ve had the odd Vase or two smashed over my head.

My wife believes in flower power…

M44BC

#123 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 12:47 pm

#116 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 11:53 am
@#112 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 11:35 am
#102 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:34 am

pfft, oshawa hasn’t relied on gm to carry their economy for years. T2 policies have nothing to do with gm’s worldwide restructure – its a failing business.
______

Agreed, GM Oshawa is nothing compared to what it used to be, but closing up this plant will definitely be a kick in Oshawa’s, Ontario’s, and Canada’s pants one way or another.

The ripple effects will cost thousands of more jobs and billions in lost earnings and revenues that will not be easily or quickly replaced (if ever).

The changes hitting the auto industry are the same for all the manufacturers – expect more of the same yet to come.
________________________________

no doubt.
If the past decade+ has shown us anything, its that manufacturing as a career choice is a poor one.
I would have taken 2008 as apretty good hint to re-educate
_______

100%. I would have taken that buyout and commuted the Pension too if I had enough years in.

I have a bud that works for Honda Alliston who is just coming up on 50 years old. Everything is near paid for, and soon to be empty nest’ers too. He’s biding his time for a buyout and a commute for an early retirement. He’s gone at 55 if he can stomach the discount on the pension payout if the buyout doesn’t come.

He can read the writing on the wall.

#124 Ace Goodheart on 11.26.18 at 12:54 pm

Looks like the USMCA is USMC-usless as far as saving Canadian manufacturing jobs.

GM just torched its massive Oshawa assembly plant, shutting it down permanently as of December 2019.

For those not familiar with Oshawa and it’s GM plant, this is epic.

The plant is actually a small city, which occupies an area larger than Oshawa’s downtown, in the South-West sector of the City. Upon driving into the lands occupied by the plant, you quickly become aware that the plant is “everywhere”, all around you, extending in each direction farther than you can see.

I grew up in Oshawa. I worked, as a teenager and a young adult, for many of the feeder plants that supply parts to GM’s massive car and truck producing City in the south end of town. When they say that 2500 jobs are being lost with this shut down, they are lying.

2500 GM jobs are being lost. But this will snowball very quickly. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of feeder industries that support this plant. All around it, there are small factories producing bits and pieces of the cars and trucks being built there, from the little plastic plugs that go into the pick up truck bed liners (I worked at that factory for about six months) to switches for the electric windows, and everything in between, the little feeder factories pump out parts 24/7 to supply that GM plant on demand. There are going to be massive layoffs and closures all through that area, as all of the feeder industries shut down.

Oshawa is about to become a ghost town. Just look at what happened to St. Catharines. And that was just a small engine plant.

This is epic. This will be felt throughout Ontario.

#125 cto on 11.26.18 at 1:02 pm

Garth, Dogs

So…lots of news about GM today. Seems manufacturing, or… anything of substance that employs the masses in Canada including energy sector seems to be closing up shop here. the only industries that seem to be expanding are universities, hospitals, condo, residential and retail box store complexes.
This confounds me bigly!??
In grade school economics I learned that every region must have a primary economic driver or the economy dies.
Yet here in Canukastan, they’re building super tall condos, heck Oshawa has 20+ subdivions under construction alone! Same place is getting one of the biggest box store malls in Canada. It’s University expanded 3Xs in last 3 years.!
Here’s the thing…
Universities are a cost to the tax payer
Hospitals are a net cost to the tax payer, though necessary.
Real estate is a cost to the owners who buy.
Retail is a spinoff from people who have money to buy.
NONE OF THE ABOVE BRING MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY LIKE SAY, GM DID. ($50000/yr+ JOBS @ 2500 PERSONS).
So… where’s the money coming from?
How does our economy sustain without these primary industries as a solid foundation, or are we just sitting on an unstable “feet of clay”.

#126 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 1:04 pm

#108 PastThePeak on 11.26.18 at 10:25 am
—–

Plenty in play right now that is for sure. Things are up and down in the world so fast these days you never can really make a solid bet on what is coming down the pipe.

I agree Canada is getting quite a collection of scary trends though.

Of course, I always advocate for the fortification of your household’s finances, and the minimization of costs and taxes.

I still say the answer by government to most of our future issues will be to tax us more, and they won’t be leaving us loads of choice by hammering Zesty Doritos with a 50% “junk food tax” – no, it will be more costs associated with fuels, electricity, education, property, business, etc… Anything that is tough to side-step.

Don’t believe the reasons given unless they say “we’re broke, we just need the money, hand it over”.

#127 Dolce Vita on 11.26.18 at 1:09 pm

Famous last words.

Opening salvo from Nov. 24 Toronto Sun Gunter article:

An oil industry in crisis and a government twiddling its thumbs…

“Can anyone imagine Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declaring Ontario’s manufacturing sector to be in crisis, then doing nothing about it?”

…Ah, yup.

If anything here, misery loves company.

———————–

A lot of fear mongering despite the Oshawa plant will be in semi-operation? until the end of 2019.

Example of the fear mongering:

“Former Chrysler CEO Tom LaSorda on GM reportedly closing its Oshawa plant: The government never wanted to support the industry. Brampton’s next … This is going to spread.

Even though he admits he’s been away for 9 years now…

https://twitter.com/i/status/1067063286699483137

#128 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 1:21 pm

#78 PastThePeak on 11.25.18 at 10:29 pm

On a positive note, the recent fed fiscal update provided money for both (select) media and environmental NGOs, so there will be an increase in employment in these government sanctioned areas.
_____

Indeed – the budget had a 25 Million dollar line item dedicated to Avalanche awareness initiatives.

That should be a real shot in the arm to the Canadian avalanche industry…

#129 jess on 11.26.18 at 1:43 pm

GM: from 40000 workers to this
GM’s (GM) new motto is “Zero Crashes, Zero Emissions, Zero Congestion,”
the bigger picture is cars with less moving parts

so will there be less law suits cheat devices , faulty parts, auto parts cartel engaged in bid-rigging and price fixing etc…
2013!
http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/266788/Antitrust+Competition/The+Implications+Of+DOJs+Auto+Parts+PriceFixing+Enforcement+Actions

five facilities in North America and slash its staff. GM will reduce its salaried workforce by 15%, including a quarter of the company’s executives.(cnn)

By the time one pays insurance, interest, repairs on a car what is left on the pay check?

#130 Linda on 11.26.18 at 1:53 pm

I have to agree with MF regarding GM (& other NA car manufacturers) for dropping the ball. Case in point: NA has a high percentage of tall people, especially on the western half of the continent. Yet when we go car shopping, I don’t even bother to get into a vehicle until my husband fits 1) behind the wheel with no leg cramping & 2) has actual space above his head. Sorry to say, the majority of NA car manufacturers do NOT make vehicles he can fit into. Yet many ‘foreign’ designed vehicles provide ample headroom & legroom to boot for a guy who stands six foot three in his socks. Why is it that countries whose population rarely tops six feet in height make the cars that those who are over six feet tall can fit into?

#131 DON on 11.26.18 at 1:59 pm

#92 MF on 11.26.18 at 7:06 am

GM:

If the decision to close is confirmed today, it’s definitely bad news. Bad news for Ontario, for Canada, and of course for the workers affected.

This does feel a little like the closing of Sears did, however. If I look around at my circle of friends

************

Your opinion is based on looking around your circle of friends?

Ever try to fix a foreign car – need a special tool for almost everything.

#132 JB on 11.26.18 at 2:15 pm

#106 Smoking Man on 11.26.18 at 10:09 am

102 KLNR on 11.26.18 at 8:34 am
@#33 Smoking Man on 11.25.18 at 6:33 pm
If you own a home in Oshawa, you’re done.
GM leaving. So will many companies.
T2 policies scare the crap out of investors and business owners
________________________
pfft, oshawa hasn’t relied on gm to carry their economy for years. T2 policies have nothing to do with gm’s worldwide restructure – its a failing business.
………………………………

It’s just the start. When your biggest trading partner deregulats, cuts corp taxes, will not sign onto the Paris Accord. The price on carbon that the UN enventluy wants will bankrupt everyone.

When you look at the Canadian political map. MadMax will split the vote enough and T2 gets four more years to bring in the UNs mandate to destroy capitalism.

What company in there right mind will stick around for this shit show.
Not to mention all the newly schoold communists coming out of universities.

Zero long term benefits for investing in a country that wants to eat the rich
……………………………………………………………….
Not bad you illiterate piece of dog excrement. Only three spelling mistakes and one grammatical substitution. We did however get the gist of it.
Actually it is around 14K GM employees about to hit the ground. Not only the Shwa you silly little man. Keep in mind that the GM employees are losing their livelihood, this is not a topic taken lightly you inconsiderate fool. 15% of GM’s workforce is going to be reduced world wide. Detroit; Oshawa; Warren Ohio; White Marsh, Maryland; and Warren, Michigan plants are on the block. So your $hit for brains president had nothing to do with this restructuring.

#133 PastThePeak on 11.26.18 at 2:23 pm

#126 IHCTD9 on 11.26.18 at 1:04 pm

I still say the answer by government to most of our future issues will be to tax us more, and they won’t be leaving us loads of choice by hammering Zesty Doritos with a 50% “junk food tax” – no, it will be more costs associated with fuels, electricity, education, property, business, etc… Anything that is tough to side-step.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I almost 100% agree – I do think there will be plenty of “boutique” sin tax increases thrown into the mix as well (more alcohol & tobacco of course, a junk food tax sounds like a good Liberal idea, a soon-to-be cannabis sin tax once the market is established, perhaps a “dining out” tax of some sort…I am sure gov’t will be creative…).

But yes, the majority of tax will be ever harder to get around. Lowering your tax bite will involve going back in time a bit – doing more things yourself, bartering with friends/neighbours for items and services, and just plain doing with less (I am all for this latter one – my wife not so much:).

Productivity killing of course – instead of specialization, it is heading in the opposite direction. But what other options will people have? Wages are barely growing, taxes on what you earn will only increase whacking take-home-pay, and service costs will continue to spiral upwards.

While most occupations are not amenable, theoretically it would make better financial sense to work 4 days/week, using that 5th day for lowering one’s costs doing the items noted above.

#134 jess on 11.26.18 at 2:24 pm

tropes and memes pleasssssssssssse stop blaming Anybody who is truly enlightened and who knows anything about males, females and relationships knows that that is all wrong. Still, the Mars/Venus phenomenon continues to make millions. When will we let science command the “he versus she” communication conversation?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/male-female-communication_b_813095

“analysing 122 different characteristics such as fear of success, intimacy and empathy in 13,301 individuals. They found that on the whole, men and women did not fall into different groups. “Although gender differences on average are not under dispute, the idea of consistently and inflexibly gender-typed individuals is”,

“The common belief that men are from Mars and women are from Venus is really wrong, we are all from planet Earth”,

#135 DON on 11.26.18 at 2:31 pm

https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/business-insolvencies-in-canada-rise-at-fastest-pace-since-2012

#136 jess on 11.26.18 at 3:58 pm

2018
ontario businesses y/y
09-30-2018 – 913 09-30-2017 – 874

Canada y/y
126,962 125,912
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/h_br03986.html#tbl1
=====================================
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/h_br03986.html#tbl3

Office of the Superintendent of Bankruptcy
Overview

Insolvency volumes in Canada increased during the 2007–2016 period, from 108,905 in 2007 to 129,727 in 2016. Volumes were noticeably affected by the 2008–09 recession, during which they peaked at 158,441.

The structure of insolvency volumes changed during the 2007–2016 period. The two insolvency options that form total volumes, a bankruptcy and a proposal, evolved in opposite directions. While the number of proposal filings increased, the number of bankruptcy filings decreased. Consumer insolvency filings, which represent the majority of insolvency volumes in Canada (97% in 2016), are the main driver behind these trends.

==
Ten-Year Insolvency Trends in Canada 2007-2016

Consumer insolvency volumes

Consumer insolvency filings represent the majority of insolvency filings in Canada (97% in 2016) and are the trendsetter for total insolvency volumes. They increased by 2.4% per year, from 101,293 in 2007 to 125,878 in 2016, with a peak of 151,712 in 2009.

Business insolvency rates

The number of businesses filing for insolvency per thousand was on a downward trend during the 2007–2016 period (Figure 5).

It declined from around 3 businesses per thousand in 2007 to 1 business per thousand in 2016. The number of businesses filing for bankruptcy per thousand declined at a faster pace than the number of businesses filing a proposal per thousand.
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/br03805.html#a03

#137 Bruce Allen on 11.26.18 at 7:09 pm

Perhaps this is just the beginning of the next big ride down? All major indices and leading economic indicators released just over the past month point to a global economy that is rapidly deteriorating. The IMF’s Christine Lagarde warned last month about the possibility of a full-blown depression by 2020. Central banks have no bullets left, as the folly of central bankers brought us to this point in the FIRST PLACE. The era of ‘cheap’ money, easy credit, and ‘live in the moment’ lifestyles we’ve grown so accustomed is coming to an end. You can’t escape the laws of simple arithmetic. The world is awash in record deficits. The global debt bomb now sits at a record $270 TRILLION. If people think this wild bash is gonna continue unabated, I’ve got a bridge for sale in Brooklyn you might be interested in..

#138 Ernesto on 11.26.18 at 9:33 pm

For those in favor of our socialist health system, something to consider here:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/baffling-medicare-for-all-pac-launches-in-us-while-canadians-flee-their-country-for-healthcare

Why would someone prefer a bunch of bureaucrats (government) to manage his/her health needs? Beyond my comprehension. Nothing is free, Canadian are way more taxed than Americans. The American health system is full of problems, but it’s way more efficient than then Canadian system..

#139 GRG on 11.27.18 at 1:40 am

Re:GM Oshawa
The Federal Liberal government’s policy contradictions are catching up with it. A few years ago they could get away with marginalizing the fossil fuel industry while sprinkling money on Bombardier to build fuel swilling airplanes.

But with the Federal carbon tax countdown underway (and the showdown with some Provinces looming), its damn difficult to be in favour of IPCCs, Paris Accords and renewable energy, then argue to save a GM plant making full size pickup trucks and three of the largest cars GM sells.

Ontario’s ridiculous power costs, increasing taxes, high property and employment costs can all be offset the way we always do with our lack of competiveness – trash the Loonie. But even that seems not enough to overcome the compound burden of ill considered legislation on so many fronts.

And everybody thought the cost of going green and saving the planet could be conveniently limited to Alberta and Saskatchewan to bear.

#140 Rentin on 11.27.18 at 2:02 am

I think the easiest part is to buy more of a good stock during a correction; who doesn’t like a sale?

The hard part is if you hold a poorly performing security for some time, to determine if one should throw in more on a correction…..