Consequences

Riding down the elevator shaft from the 68th floor of an office tower on Bay Street the news appeared above that a plane had hit a tall building in NYC. As the car arrived at the concourse level, the doors opened onto an incredible scene.

Hundreds – thousands, maybe – of people were standing in a mass around the banks of TV monitors which normally broadcast stock market news to the flocks of passersby in Toronto’s underground maze known as The Path. It was dead quiet. Just the blare of CNN and the astonishing pictures of the burning WTC. About then the second plane hit. The crowd gasped. Many wept openly. I was traveling with a cameraman, coming from an interview for a network business TV show I owned at the time. We captured the event, then headed above ground.

By this time all of the major bank towers circling King & Bay – the TD Centre, Commerce Court, First Canadian Place (BMO) and ScotiaPlaza – had police cars surrounding them, pulled up on the sidewalks and plaza. We were hundreds of miles away from New York, but it felt just over the horizon.

That night I sat with Dorothy and the Siberian on the small stoop outside our urban townhouse. ‘Listen,’ she said. And there was silence. The sky above – always noisily populated with craft of all sizes headed to or from two airports – was empty. In just a few hours the entire world had changed. And would remain so.

In the last 17 years terrorism has become mainstream and security measures ingrained into daily life. On my routine flights to Vancouver before Nine Eleven the pilots would sometimes invite me into the cockpit to traverse the mountains or experience a night landing at YVR. Airports were fun and exciting. Visitors could stroll into the Parliament Buildings in Ottawa. Muslims were just regular people.

The loss of innocence was palpable, as it had been when I was a kid and Kennedy was shot down. But this time the event was global, and felt like the unravelling of society as it had been known. Since then it’s not hard to argue that extremes have formed. Globalism and nationalism. The gulf between the wealthy and the rest. Left and right. Con and Lib. Free traders and protectionists. Men and MeToo. Trump and the world.

Seventeen years on there’s still a war in Afghanistan and ISIS has proven how terrorism can morph and almost turn into a country. The factors that bend people into haters and killers have probably not been addressed in any meaningful way. Divisions are worse, it seems, not bridged. The rise of populism in the US and Europe could pose the greatest threat to global stability since WW2. Simple tariffs turn into walls, and refugees – fleeing violence, poverty or climate change – are forced into militancy. People, after all, will do anything when cornered with their families.

In a world of contrasts, remember the eleventh of September. The consequences have only begun. Today I went to the local food bank and paid for some plumbing repairs they need. Then I wrote this. Now I will listen for airplanes on the way home.

197 comments ↓

#1 Dusty on 09.11.18 at 4:12 pm

2001 was the last year I was aloud to hang out in the engine room with the marine engineers when taking the ferry from Vancouver to Vancouver Island, now we’re all suspects.

#2 James on 09.11.18 at 4:20 pm

I was still a teenager when it happened. My mother cried and both of my parents had a close friend that perished that day in WTC1. RIP to all of the innocent souls that perished along with all of the brave first responders that ran into the buildings while everyone else was ruining out. My father drove down two days later to comfort his close friend at the loss of his wife. They were best friends in University and the wife was a wonderful mother of two. We were all frozen in time that day.

#3 Bdwy sktn on 09.11.18 at 4:28 pm

Loonie spikes just after close. Is there a nafta deal?

#4 Linda on 09.11.18 at 4:30 pm

There has been a lot of news coverage regarding terrorism & the aftermath of the September 11th attacks. The world has not gotten any safer, despite – or possibly because of – the security measures taken by governments. I do not feel secure when I go through airport security. I think the erosion of the rights & freedoms of citizens is a greater threat than the acts of terrorism that still occur. Governments have used terror attacks as justification to limit or deny legal representation; to question citizens going about their daily business; to monitor private communications etc. Anyone who believes that this will only happen to those whose activities indicate they may be considering terrorist activity is naive.

Further, the usage of the very word ‘terrorism’ has been expanded. Consider those who were protesting the expansion of pipelines or attempting to demonstrate at the G8/G7 summits of recent memory. The word terrorism was used to describe the actions of the protestors & to justify spending literally billions of taxpayer funds to keep those protestors as far away from the political elite of the G8/G7 summits as possible. This does not make me feel any safer either.

I’m not saying we should not have taken measures to increase security & attempt to prevent acts of terror from taking place. I’m saying that we also need to ensure our rights & freedoms are protected & are not taken away in the name of national security.

#5 Doug t on 09.11.18 at 4:35 pm

Innocent people lost their lives thanks to the sick and twisted U.S. policies that have, and continue to, destroy the lives of thousands annually worldwide –

RATM

#6 The_Iceman on 09.11.18 at 4:42 pm

It wasn’t just the east coast getting all of the planes.

In Vancouver, it was a sunny, warm, beautiful kind of day.

I remember going-up the Grouse Grind with my girlfriend in the late afternoon (…just to “get away” from all of the TV coverage and try to clear our heads and get some of the stress out of our system). From the top, you could see the airport (YVR) far away to the southwest, with numerous large planes sitting on the tarmac (…which had originally planned to fly into the U.S. from Asia).

At one of my clients at the time, the CFO was in New York that week for some financing meetings. She was in one of the towers the previous day. Needless to say, we were all majorly freaking out the morning of the 11th, until she managed to get a message through that she and her colleagues were okay. It became surreal. (She couldn’t get home, so she managed to find 3 other Canadians and they rented a car [one-way] from NYC to Winnipeg […as they thought that they’d have better luck crossing the border from North Dakota than anywhere in the east – they were correct]).

May we never forget the people who perished, and may we always remind ourselves of what is truly precious in our lives (…and how quickly we can lose them).

Make sure you give your spouse and kids an extra big hug today, okay?

#7 NoName on 09.11.18 at 4:52 pm

I remember well, i worked afternoon shift that week, sleep in late that morning. Got first news about what happened from HNN on cable, call dude that I was a partner with asked him did he see news, he had no clue what is going on, he sad was working in a yard around the house all morning.

On away from the parking lot to shop, people coming in were stopping by guard check to take a look at the small bnw tv with news on it, in a contrast many people going home had no idea what happened that morning.

#8 Stan Brooks on 09.11.18 at 4:52 pm

#3 Bdwy sktn on 09.11.18 at 4:28 pm
Loonie spikes just after close. Is there a nafta deal?

===================

Poloz is increasing the rates by 1 % today…Not.
Just kidding.

Oil is up 3.5 % in today’s trading.

#9 Pete on 09.11.18 at 4:54 pm

No wonder Harper hated you Garth. You have a big heart and love to help others. That’s everything the conservative party hates. Conservatives have no heart and hate everyone other then themselves (1%).

#10 Jungle on 09.11.18 at 4:55 pm

Thanks for doing that, we need more acts of kindnes. God bless the families and those who lost their lives.

Saw the whole thing on TV scary af

Must have taken incredible courage from the emergency response personnel

#11 crossbordershopper on 09.11.18 at 4:56 pm

still trying to figure out how you cut the top off a tree that the entire tree falls down.like in sequence.
without help.
or building 7, no one bombed it, and it was 2 blocks away from the world trade centre. and how 48 stories come down without a bang , bomb or anything, half hour later.
and surprisingly no one was in at the time. everyone was told the week before to not come in monday.
im just saying anything, just that sometimes things are not what they seem.
God Bless America

#12 Ex-Cowtown on 09.11.18 at 5:00 pm

…fleeing climate change…

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please name one person who is a bon afide climate change refugee, or one group of people.

Conflating real problems with imaginary ones is a sin.

#13 Stan Brooks on 09.11.18 at 5:02 pm

Food bank in a G7 country?
And T2 was not there for a photo op? Surprising.
It seems climate change and gender equality is more important to him than the hungry Canadians.

https://www.foodbankscanada.ca/Hunger-in-Canada/About-Hunger-in-Canada.aspx

#14 D on 09.11.18 at 5:04 pm

WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 collapsed on Sept 11, 2001

WTC1 and WTC2 were struck by planes.

A turning point in history for sure

#15 Brain on 09.11.18 at 5:05 pm

Truly a horrible day, which I hope to never see repeated in my life-time.

Slightly related: if you want to get a glimpse on how Donald Trump’s brain seems to operate:

https://twitter.com/mbaram/status/1039383560543719425

#16 Dean McFleury on 09.11.18 at 5:08 pm

Enjoy everyday and every blog post..and every time oil gains a dollar for our friends in Western Canada

#17 Leslie McBay on 09.11.18 at 5:10 pm

Just enjoy each day as it comes, enjoy each blog posting by the annointed one, El Gartho. And each Dollar that the price of oil gains, for our much in need brothers and sisters in Alberta.

#18 Guy in Calgary on 09.11.18 at 5:28 pm

I was in grade 7 but I still remember it. We were running around the halls with our arms out pretending to be airplanes. Obviously we were kids and did not understand what had happened. No smartphones at the time and the word “terrorist” was a new one.

Began to understand the gravity after getting home and seeing the parents glued to CNN. Still haunting to watch clips of it… people jumping out of the tower to not burn to death. Surreal moment in time.

#19 mitzerboyakaQueencitykidd on 09.11.18 at 5:37 pm

911

#20 Barb on 09.11.18 at 5:40 pm

I too recall those days.
Just two months earlier, I had started a business. Each morning began with the TV switched to the news.

My abject shock at seeing the smouldering remnants of the plane after it hit the first tower remains fresh today.
Then…the second plane swept into the far side of the other tower. All elements of surprise and shock became the sickening feeling these were related incidents, no accidents.

And the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look on Bush’s face as he digested the tragic news–a full 30 seconds–while visiting an elementary school.

Like our host, I also recall (38 years earlier) in school when the public address system blared “President Kennedy has been shot.”

Tragedies that will stay with me until I pass.

Today, the phrase “foreign policy” leaves me with a very strong sense of foreboding. An example…would there even have been an ISIS if Saddam Hussein hadn’t been routed?

#21 Hawk on 09.11.18 at 5:51 pm

#4 Linda on 09.11.18 at 4:30 pm

A really good post, wholeheartedly agree. Its particularly a nuisance for single guys like myself when travelling, although of-course all the additional scrutiny can be applied to anyone. Regardless you have hit the nail on the head, which is that there is more to be uneasy about from governments than terrorists.

This is one of the biggest problems with democracy, very few people are intelligent enough to understand the libertarian perspective that expansion of state powers almost never benefits a citizenry, it’s always just benefits the state officials only.

#22 Wrk.dover on 09.11.18 at 5:51 pm

I probably have mentioned this here before, but at the time that the first plane hit, we had just plunked a rental canoe in a river, and came upon a cow and calf moose crossing the river, in SW Nova where moose had not been sighted for 80 years.

A while later, paddling a lake we watched a jet do a U turn in the sky. Then there were none all day.

Some peaceful day! Until we got home for supper….

#23 In Garth We Trust on 09.11.18 at 5:53 pm

“Today I went to the local food bank and paid for some plumbing repairs they need.”

Well done Captain Garth! Generosity of spirit can be added to your many stellar qualities! Take note blog dogs of our fearless leader. Great gains in your balanced portfolio are great but remember to give back some to the less fortunate in our society.

#24 After Communism on 09.11.18 at 5:56 pm

Welcome to the history of nations. History never ended. It is not called populism.

#25 TurnerNation on 09.11.18 at 5:59 pm

Luckily they found an intact passport on the scene to lay the blame.

#26 The Wet One on 09.11.18 at 6:00 pm

A couple of things about this sentence:

“Seventeen years on there’s still a war in Afghanistan and ISIS has proven how terrorism can morph and almost turn into a country.”

First of all, Afghanistan had already been at war for about 20 years when 9/11 happened. The U.S. and its allies joined in on that war post 9/11 and the U.S. has remained in that war for 17 years. However, Afghanistan itself had been at war since before the Soviets arrived. It’s a very terrible situation. Especially since it was nice place for Canadians to visit and travel to before it all went to hell for almost 4 decades of nonstop conflict.

Secondly, terrorism can’t become a country anymore than Blitzkrieg can become a country. Terrorism is a tactic used by political actors (ISIS in the case at hand). ISIS was aiming at establishing its own country in the vacuum left by America’s destruction of Iraq. This just goes to show that it’s a bad idea to destroy governments and leave nothing in their place. Something will come to fill the void. But that something isn’t “terrorism.”

One of the worst thing that 9/11 unleashed on us was a mangling of the language we use whereby “terrorism” became practically everything under the sun and thereby meaningless. This has made communicating about certain topics well nigh impossible since words don’t mean anything anymore. They are more like the grunting of hogs and lowing of cattle than human speech.

So it goes.

#27 Shortymac on 09.11.18 at 6:05 pm

I remember it was a beautiful day… sunny and warm, but not hot.

I was a sophomore in high school in my computer class, we didn’t have a clue what happened until we went to gym and the electronics students saw the second plane crash into the tower live when they where repairing a TV. We thought it was an accident.

The principal at the school banned the teachers from discussing what was going on, even forcing a teacher to turn off their radio. But then the principal came on the intercom and instead of actually telling us what the fark was going on she went on about how great it was to be an American, which was weird without the context.

Also the whole day kids where getting pulled out of school which added to the eeriness and panic. It was non-stop *ding* Jimmy Smith please come down to the office, *ding* Suzie Johnson please come down to the office.

My teacher and the rest of the student decided to just not do any work that day, a friend of mine had a end times book and we thought it was the end of the damn world.

The next day we all wore black in morning, Sept 12 is also my Dad’s birthday and whole family forgot that for a week.

Now the children born right after 9/11 can sign up for the army and get sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, patrolling the same areas their parents did. Gotta love this forever war we gotten ourselves into.

#28 Dusty on 09.11.18 at 6:12 pm

#12 Ex-cowtown

…fleeing climate change…

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please name one person who is a bon afide climate change refugee, or one group of people.

Conflating real problems with imaginary ones is a sin.

Garth, allow me.

Drought in Syria caused mass migration of Syrian farmers into the cities. These people couldn’t find work and this mass unemployment ultimately resulted in destabilizing Syria. So arguably the Syrian refugees across Europe are refugees from climate change.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0962629816301822

If you want to really be worried, read about Bangladesh and the resulting 30 million people who will become refugees with any further sea level rise. These people will ultimately end up in Europe. Imagine the consequences, or better yet, don’t.

#29 baloney Sandwitch on 09.11.18 at 6:17 pm

OBL had the last laugh even when he lay dying with a bullet in his head. Blinded with rage, he lured the “great satan” into 2 wars it has yet to to extricate itself from – now 17 years and counting.

#30 Shortymac on 09.11.18 at 6:22 pm

#11 crossbordershopper on 09.11.18 at 4:56 pm
still trying to figure out how you cut the top off a tree that the entire tree falls down.like in sequence.
without help.
or building 7, no one bombed it, and it was 2 blocks away from the world trade centre. and how 48 stories come down without a bang , bomb or anything, half hour later.
and surprisingly no one was in at the time. everyone was told the week before to not come in monday.
im just saying anything, just that sometimes things are not what they seem.
God Bless America

———————————————————

Basically, the towers collapsed and fell for 2 reasons:

1) The towers where designed to maximize office space, so they didn’t have a reinforced exterior and most of the steel structure was in the center. Since the airplanes came in on the side it made the whole building off-center.

2) The sheer amount of paper the financial offices had started to burn and spread throughout the buildings. This also raised the temp melting the internal steel beams causing the collapse.

#31 IHCTD9 on 09.11.18 at 6:25 pm

#28 Dusty on 09.11.18 at 6:12 pm
#12 Ex-cowtown

…fleeing climate change…

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please name one person who is a bon afide climate change refugee, or one group of people.

Conflating real problems with imaginary ones is a sin.

Garth, allow me.

Drought in Syria caused mass migration of Syrian farmers into the cities. These people couldn’t find work and this mass unemployment ultimately resulted in destabilizing Syria. So arguably the Syrian refugees across Europe are refugees from climate change.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0962629816301822

If you want to really be worried, read about Bangladesh and the resulting 30 million people who will become refugees with any further sea level rise. These people will ultimately end up in Europe. Imagine the consequences, or better yet, don’t.
——-

Droughts have been happening since the beginning of time.

30 million refugees from Bangladesh absolutely will not end up in Europe.

#32 Danny on 09.11.18 at 6:27 pm

Good for you to share once again your insights on global social injustices and our once upon a time more relaxed life styles

When one considers the true human sufferance of this earth’s long history, by those who read…..besides just ranting in the comment section….your words are touching on and reinforce the notion that those who are privileged need to share some of those privileges…like you and yours did for the food bank.

Hatred grows by those who allow it to grow….just like Petty Doug Ford still sulking over the necessary fact that brighter City Councillors took away the Mayor’s powers from his very troubled and inept brother Rob Ford…and by extension Doug himself.

Vindictive Doug does not understand the roles of the judicial system. What would Doug have done and said if the Judge had ruled in favor of the Ontario Government?

….that justice was served for the “little guy “…when we all know that really a smaller City Council would work to benefit the financial real estate developers who funded Doug Ford and who had a “fit” yesterday……..when the Judge rightly said….that the Ontario Government rushed legislation through and caused confusion in an untimely manner.

Sorry “fat head” Doug…winning only 24% of the eligible electorate….does not make you King. (40% of the 60% of the electorate who actually voted )

#33 Dolce Vita on 09.11.18 at 6:27 pm

Each generation has seen its fair share of horrors Garth.

Ours 9/11.

Our parents WWII. Their parents WWI.

And so forth in the West, all the way back to Pax Romana.

– – – – – – – – – – –

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head.

Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things.
Some shall be pardon’d, and some punished.

For never was a story of more woe…

#34 Howard on 09.11.18 at 6:27 pm

Glad to see you acknowledge globalism for the extreme ideology it is.

#35 Sam the Sham on 09.11.18 at 6:29 pm

I’ll never forget where I was on 9/11. They let us all go home from work early and I walked in on my wife entertaining her lover! A day that will truly go down in infamy!

#36 Kelowna - Housing Bagholder Call on 09.11.18 at 6:30 pm

“We are now six months into a cooling rend, with a curb in demand arising from natural markets shifts.”

Mother nature like.

Month-over-month detached prices from July, 31, 2018 to August 31, 2018 dropped -$61,072. The Median price drop month-over-month was -$26,050.

OMREB is saying “an 8% price drop across all property types month-over-month, from July to August.
This isn’t even half the tale. The sales-to-active listings ratio is plummeting more than the financial crisis.

The detached market in Kelowna for only the fourth time since 1975 entered into a buyers market July, 2018.
OMREB – September 5, 2018

Buyer beware.

The unnamed source forecast is for a 38.2% drop in price for Kelowna (the HELOC capital of Canada) over the next 2-years.

On a person per person basis this market is more bubbly than Vancouver, and one to watch.

#37 Smoking Man on 09.11.18 at 6:37 pm

Was on route to work clipping along I80, as I got to Rockaway NJ, coming down the hill , the twin towers where visible.

One was on fire, I called the wife back home, no answer so I left a message for her to call me.

We watch the horror show play out from our windows at the office.

When towers crashed, I knew right at the moment that it was explosives, we all talked about with co-workers. Then building 7 went down.

Could not make a call for two days, phones were overloaded. Spent that night in Morristown NJ, getting a few drinks and smoking cigars

with these shady Italian dudes who I’m still in touch with. If you ever need a favor they say.

Drove home on the Friday, crossing the border, it was nuts, got inspected leaving the USA, and entering Canada.

My one big take away from the whole fiasco. I never trusted MSM ever again.

#38 IHCTD9 on 09.11.18 at 6:40 pm

I heard the news at work, everyone was talking about it. When the second plane hit and all the security groundings happened, one of my co-workers said “the US is under ******* attack!” I still work with that guy, albeit at a different company. We chatted today about it.

Later in either the hours or days following the attack, another coworker said, “I bet that OBL guy had something to do with this”. That was the first time I ever heard the name.

#39 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 09.11.18 at 6:42 pm

I was on my way to work when i heard the news on the car radio. I thought OMG, the world has just changed and the USA is going to unleash hell.

#40 Langley passes the greater fool title to Kelowna on 09.11.18 at 6:43 pm

Even though Langley is no longer the title holder of greater fool theory in British Columbia, which some have suggested is due to most of these people having moved from Langley to Kelowna (which makes a lot of sense), Langley is still in quite a mess.

Now in Langley, sales have fallen 30% and inventory has jumped 111%. And you have been driving around the Fraser Valley lately you will notice an insane amount of residential construction – condos and town homes going up everywhere – are the Olympics coming back or something?

Severe whiplash happening. Banks expect to be paid back every dollar. Sign here for your debt sentence: ________________

#41 Costco Nation on 09.11.18 at 6:44 pm

I’m not one to believe the crap being thrown at me, especially when so transparent.

But, regardless of who did what and who colluded with whom, when the 3000 souls cried in sheer terror an hour later, I felt it physically, in my guts, without watching it live, across a thousand miles. That was real, and that thing is the burden the real perpetrators will carry down with them forever. It’s all that counts.

And, interesting enough, I saw the first hit also in an elevator, in downtown Toronto, on my way up to floor 34.

#42 Millennial Realist on 09.11.18 at 6:47 pm

And sadly the whole thing morphed into the end stages of conservative political fraud, the curse of the west since the time of Reagan. More inequality, more lies. Idiot conspiracy nuts now everywhere denying climate change and the collective path of humanity towards its own destruction.

The Iraq war, a totally corrupt fake news fraud, costing trillions together with Afghanistan. Leading us to greater inequality and now fascist populism being embraced around the world, now at the provincial level in Ontario.

Conservatism continues and may drag the world to its death unless younger generations take over, and soon.

#43 islander on 09.11.18 at 6:52 pm

http://www.toledoblade.com/Nation/2011/09/11/list-of-2977-victims-of-Sept-11-2001-terror-attacks.html

In Remembrance

#44 Linda too on 09.11.18 at 6:54 pm

#4 Linda on 09.11.18 at 4:30 pm

I totally agree with Linda’s post.

And Checka…his name was Checka. I doubt you forgot but I wanted his name to be remembered too.

#45 YVR on 9/11 on 09.11.18 at 6:56 pm

I remember Cathay Pacific coming in with two F-18 hornets escorting it just back from the wing tips with directions to shoot down any commercial aircraft that deviated off course.

Ground to aircraft radio communications once on the ground were shut off. Instead the big boss of the airport went plane to plane for verbal communications as a way to not have information intercepted.

Answer me this: Did American businessman L. Silverstein, who famously signed a 99-year lease on the World Trade Center complex in June 2001, two months before the attacks, where the insurance was increased big time know something?

After 9/11, Silverstein took the insurance company to court, claiming he should be paid double because there were 2 attacks. He won, and was awarded $4,550,000,000.

That is “B” as in Billion.

Then he tried to sue for $12.3 billion in damages from airlines and airport security companies for the 9/11 attack.

#46 Sebee on 09.11.18 at 7:03 pm

When I think back at the 3 days of media I watched following that morning it feels like A Clockwork Orange session, aiming to desensitize millions. It probably did.

#47 IHCTD9 on 09.11.18 at 7:04 pm

#34 Millennial Realist on 09.11.18 at 6:47 pm
And sadly the whole thing morphed into the end stages of conservative political fraud, the curse of the west since the time of Reagan. More inequality, more lies. Idiot conspiracy nuts now everywhere denying climate change and the collective path of humanity towards its own destruction.

The Iraq war, a totally corrupt fake news fraud, costing trillions together with Afghanistan. Leading us to greater inequality and now fascist populism being embraced around the world, now at the provincial level in Ontario.

Conservatism continues and may drag the world to its death unless younger generations take over, and soon.
—————

Better start prepping now then. There are going to be Trumps calling the shots all over the world soon. The process is already well under way as you seem to understand.

I suggest checking out the “Canadian Prepper” YouTube channel for some good survivalist techniques and gear. Everything from freeze dried food to guns and ammo are covered (I’m set to get my PAL next year, just in case…:) ). You never know when Doug Ford might use the notwithstanding clause again and trigger the mother of all SHTF’s! You need to get hardened quick against a grid down apocalypse!

#48 MLK on 09.11.18 at 7:05 pm

SINCE WE ALL HAVE A SOFT HEART TODAY…..

Let’s talk about the day this nation’s first prime minister legalized residential schooling and allowed the young children of the original native people of this country to be ripped from their parents’ arms and sent to be stripped of their culture and dignity in boarding schools run by the devil’s disciples.

Let’s talk about the legalization of slavery in the U.S. and how black people were hunted down like deer and rats and forced to live in 3rd world conditions across North American cities.

I feel so sorry for all those well off investment bankers on 9/11 who parished. If only they knew what real pain felt like.

That was cheap. – Garth

#49 Herb on 09.11.18 at 7:12 pm

Terrorism is war conducted by the weak. War is terrorism conducted by the strong.

(Ran across words to that effect recently in a book but didn’t note the source, so can’t attribute them.)

#50 Johnny D on 09.11.18 at 7:13 pm

1.4 billion more people on earth compared to 2001… With the next billion gonna come in another ten years or less. I wonder how the war, climate change, and disease situation will go from here?

#51 Dolce Vita on 09.11.18 at 7:19 pm

#42 Millennial Realist

Read Solzhenitsyn.

OR

For immediate gratification as is typical of your generation, Google:

“How many people died from communism?”

No one kills on an industrial scale like the Left, even in peace time.

#52 IHCTD9 on 09.11.18 at 7:23 pm

#48 MLK on 09.11.18 at 7:05 pm
SINCE WE ALL HAVE A SOFT HEART TODAY…..

Let’s talk about the day this nation’s first prime minister legalized residential schooling and allowed the young children of the original native people of this country to be ripped from their parents’ arms and sent to be stripped of their culture and dignity in boarding schools run by the devil’s disciples.

Let’s talk about the legalization of slavery in the U.S. and how black people were hunted down like deer and rats and forced to live in 3rd world conditions across North American cities.

I feel so sorry for all those well off investment bankers on 9/11 who parished. If only they knew what real pain felt like.

That was cheap. – Garth

———-

[email protected] comment of the year award.

#53 IHCTD9 on 09.11.18 at 7:30 pm

#50 Johnny D on 09.11.18 at 7:13 pm
1.4 billion more people on earth compared to 2001… With the next billion gonna come in another ten years or less. I wonder how the war, climate change, and disease situation will go from here?
———

All those new folks you mention will be born in Africa, India, and the Middle East. So same old deal on those 3 fronts is my prediction.

Here in the West, we’ll keep importing folks to keep our population numbers from continually dropping due to no domestic offspring. So same old deal here too.

#54 KLNR on 09.11.18 at 7:31 pm

was on an island in south thailand. Everyone knew what happened but pretty much went about there day to day as usual. Didn’t hear much about it until I got back to Toronto a few weeks later. I’m sure with what technology is today it would be way different today. With every second of the day being recorded by someones smartphone we might have more answers to some unanswered questions about that event.

#55 MF on 09.11.18 at 7:35 pm

Well written Garth. One of your best posts.

9/11 still feels like it was yesterday. I was in OAC at the time and I remember another teacher running into our class and whispering into our teacher’s ear very early in the morning. Our teacher’s face said it all as she announced to us all that two planes had flown into the world trade. There was confusion as to whether it was intentional or not, and in the halls everyone had theories, ideas, questions and the like.

I went home for lunch that day and my mom was almost in tears, glued to the TV. At that point I found out it was terrorism. That was first time I had heard of Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, Afghanistan, Taliban and all these others terms that are now commonly used.

However, in total contrast to what was happening on TV, the sky was perfectly clear in Toronto and life seemed eerily normal. What was shown on TV felt like it was a world away. It wasn’t until years later that the full impact of 9/11 is becoming clear to me: nowhere is safe and security is a now fact of life in the west.

RIP to all the victims of terrorism.

MF

#56 Dissappointed Observer on 09.11.18 at 7:38 pm

#48
You represent, with great impunity, the essence of the problem facing humanity. Your assumptions on who the victims were and your lack of empathy for the tragedy, fuelled by your polarized view of the world is nothing short of pathetic. Here’s an assumption of my own; the victims of this tragedy had representation not only from the privileged who you so despicably attacked, but also from the very maltreated groups you’ve identified. The event was an attack on all humanity, with no discrimination of skin colour, religion, or place of origin. Yet scum like you find a way to manipulate this tragedy to fit your own objectives. The issues you raised have their own place and should be scrutinized and eradicated, but not at the expense of the humility this event demands of us.

#57 Blair on 09.11.18 at 7:43 pm

Many years after 9/11, on my first trip to NYC, I met a woman on the 38th floor of a tower on Vessey Street in Lower Manhattan. It was a Monday morning early in May, 2011. The day after they got Bin Laden. I was there for a meeting. She was the host. In our small talk before the meeting she said she was turning 40 that week. She was timid and spoke softly and looked out of place for the environment. She didn’t at all look like any of her fellow corporate banking types, yet she had everyone’s attention for the whole hour.

After the meeting, with more small talk, I asked her what she knew about the WTC tours held nearby, as I was curious about the tour. She said she was a volunteer guide. Then she took me over to her cubicle which had news clippings from 9/11 taped all over it. Out of her window was a direct view of the new tower being built.

I learned from her that her fiancé was on the floor struck by the first plane. She was at her desk at that moment. They were to be married on Saturday, September 22nd. She had her last dress fitting the day before.

She remained single, working at the same job and at the same desk ever since. The cubicle and the construction is a daily reminder. In the years that followed, she told me she goes on vacations with her fiancee’s family regularly and counts herself lucky. But she made it clear when we parted…”I am so glad they got Bin Laden.”

#58 Alessio on 09.11.18 at 7:44 pm

Condo prices up 50% in Toronto. Hope the folks told to rent instead aren’t too upset. They can join the folks who were told not to buy a low rise home and throw a “in a renter for life now” party! Last one to the conga line pays everyone else’s rent for a month! Opa! “Que te passa.. who do you think you’re fooolin….” (music)

#59 Jim Brooks on 09.11.18 at 7:48 pm

If you want to hear the real reason the US of A is hated in the Middle East listen to Noam Chomsky deliver the straight goods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eRRyQ6dsPg

#60 What Are You Smoking - Man on 09.11.18 at 7:54 pm

#36 Kelowna Bag Holder.

Dude….you must be smoking something.

“An unnamed source forecast is 38.2% in the next two years”. Who are you with your unnamed sources? The New York Times?

The Okanagan, and particularly Kelowna will hold steady or even increase in the next year. People may be holding back waiting for a bargain now, but they wont wait forever, especially when its cheaper to buy than it is to rent.

I guess you think rents will go down as well?

#61 Freebird on 09.11.18 at 7:55 pm

This seemed appropriate…

Imagine

Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope some day you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope some day you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
~John Winston Lennon

Elton at Central Park
https://youtu.be/Wy2VmfgEaag

Let’s put our egos aside treat each other with compassion and respect. It costs nothing.

Peace

#62 Funky on 09.11.18 at 7:58 pm

Once flew into NY City, upon the approach the pilot came on and said the skyscrapers act like a small mountain range creating the turbulence, so at the time on the day I wasn’t too surprised when told a plane hit the WTC. Then the second plane hit… and the rest is history.

Nicely written Mr. Turner. Thank you, encore une fois.

#63 Matthew on 09.11.18 at 8:02 pm

Matthew 24:3-14
3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then many will fall away[a] and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

#64 Mike on 09.11.18 at 8:03 pm

First

#65 sideline sitter on 09.11.18 at 8:03 pm

I was in Paris with 2 friends… we went up the Eiffel Tower that day essentially oblivious to what was happening. We met a few ladies from the US who wondered aloud ‘why do they hate us’

A friend who was joining us in Spain couldn’t get a flight in, and a friend who was leaving couldn’t get a flight out – he was stranded in Amsterdam and every hotel was booked… a friend of my brother let him stay at their house.

Two months later I visited NYC, I was drawn to that world changing event and I agree life has never been the same since.

A tragic day to be sure

#66 ben on 09.11.18 at 8:05 pm

The hijackers passport was found lightly cinged by none other than one of the heads of homeland security. The black boxes on the planes never recovered and thought to have been totally destroyed. The laws of science suspended, steel melting from burning paper,carpet and continuing to burn for weeks after while the company called controlled demolition hurriedly removed all the wreckage and sent it off to china to be recycled. I got home in time to see the BBC announce bldg 7 collapse 20 minutes before it collapsed without ever been hit then it did collapse. All the bullsht lies, all the smiling anchors,invasions, shady deals with terrorists, well all I can say is I’ve never seen the MSN .gov or the sheeple the same way since

Tin foiler. – Garth

#67 Neo on 09.11.18 at 8:17 pm

Are we going to revisit this every year? Let it become history please. Once per decade is enough for trauma remembrance. The world has overreact to this once in a lifetime event in a big way. Have you seen images of Syria lately?

https://goo.gl/images/AbBw71

Let us not forget that 10 years ago this week, financial terrorists nearly destroyed civilization resulting in economic chaos that lingers to this day, yet none of these monsters have been punished yet alone tracked down and executed for their crimes against humanity. Many people have also died or committed suicide as a result of this reckless attack. I guess it’s ok when banksters are doing the killing and destroying millions of lives.

#68 Steven Rowlandson on 09.11.18 at 8:17 pm

Within 15 minutes of 911 I suspected the truth that it was a false flag op and in the fullness of time I was proven correct. Then again the truth is not popular or PC.

Tell the thousands who died it was a hoax. – Garth

#69 the Jaguar on 09.11.18 at 8:24 pm

The very early morning radio host made a comment about an item coming over the wire regarding a small plane hitting an office tower in New York City. Wow, I thought, and the radio was shut off as I went about my morning routine. Biked to the office and on my arrival everyone was glued around a small television we had monitoring the terrible news unfolding. It was unbelievable and almost impossible to take in what had happened. And then the news of another plane hitting the Pentagon and the first tower falling. I sat in my office cubicle and cried.
But what I remember most from that day was in an office of approximately 50 people, some understood the gravity of events while others went about their business of everyday paperwork as though it was just another crazy news item. ‘Better get back to these reports that are due tomorrow’, etc. I was stunned. Was it just how they coped with shocking events or did they really not understand the gravity of the days events? We wonder why terrible things happen in history and people stand by and do nothing, and that day I wondered if it might be because they feel nothing. I don’t mean fear, but the depths of human suffering around us and understanding our own vulnerability.
Was the Siberian also a rescue, Garth? What was his name?

Cheka. He became an epileptic at 18 months and lasted seven years. He struggled. We were in awe of his courage. – Garth

#70 Nonplused on 09.11.18 at 8:24 pm

Nice reflection Garth.

That morning I arrived a bit late for work, and after the first plane hit. I worked on a trading floor and all the screens were on CNN rather than their usual price feeds. Everyone was standing around staring at the screens. No one was on the phone or doing any trading of any kind. Just shocked. Since I hadn’t heard what was going on I asked. “A plane has hit the world trade center”, they said, nobody knew anything more at that time. I looked at the picture on the screen and asked aloud “and it’s still standing?”

In the years since there have been many “conspiracy theories” claiming that a plane and jet fuel could not bring down a steel building. But I am a civil engineer by training, and I am more impressed by the fact they did not fall right away and so many people got out before the collapse. It speaks to how strong these buildings actually were. If they had collapsed upon impact, probably as the terrorists had hoped, the death toll could have been more than 20 times higher. And this is what disproves the conspiracy theories. If there were bombs, why wait until everyone that can get out is out? Blow up your bombs for maximum carnage.

WT7 is a bit more of a mystery, it shouldn’t have collapsed based on fire alone. My theory is that it was structurally damaged by rubble from the twin towers. All that material had to go somewhere and it did so with extreme force.

Everyone says when an event like this happens you remember where you were at the time. Those alive when Kennedy was assassinated all know where they were when they first heard. For me the first such event was the Challenger disaster. I remember some asshole in the room saying “no, I meant a Bud-light”. In a similar way everyone who was of age remembers where they were on 9/11.

May they rest in peace.

Many people despair over the much more “active” foreign policy stance of the US since 9/11. They say things like “killing women and children makes more terrorists” and such. But what, really, did the sponsors of this event think was going to happen? The US had to take it upon themselves to make sure such a thing did not happen again. This reasonably means tighter security at home, which they have done, but also logically means rooting out terrorists or at least denying them the means to execute their plans abroad. The terrorists brought this upon themselves. All the George Bush like talk of “we must fight them there, so we don’t have to fight them here” is just propaganda. The real issue is that if you have a problem with hornets, it is much more effective to find the nest and spray it than to set a trap near the BBQ.

Sometimes, folks, it really is either them or us. You can negotiate with the Russians, or the Chinese, despite all the hysteria. But a terrorist is like a wasp. You have to find the nest and exterminate it, or more will just keep coming.

#71 Debtslavecreator on 09.11.18 at 8:25 pm

43-millenials realist:
You have it backwards buddy.
It is neoliberalism that’s been destroying the world. A massive kleptocracy that crosses political lines and essentially relies on control of big and bigger govts to rig the economy to help themselves – the core of it is the top level in the FIRE industries and govt
These people use govt as a tool to loot and use the guise of capitalism and socialism to deceive the public
Socialism is always the easiest sell as a mostly naive and financially illiterate population falls for left wing promises that come to an inevitable end once the state goes bankrupt which is the stage most of the G20 including Canada is in
You’ve seen nothing yet – and we’ve not had a real conservative in decades
The most violent faction historically is the left by far

#72 Iconoclast on 09.11.18 at 8:33 pm

MLK: Cry me a river about residential schools. I’m sick of hearing about it.

Free food, free clothes, free books, free everything. “Ripped away from parents” like every kid who went to boarding school ever. A trip to Hogwarts, where the magic was electricity.

The abuse… no excuse for that. But it turns out it’s hardly a Canadian innovation.
The vicious pedo priests (and nuns) were kiddy diddling everywhere. Ireland. Australia. USA.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orphanage-death-catholic-abuse-nuns-st-josephs

It messed some of them up for sure, but it should never have become the all-purpose excuse for every native failing that it did.

#73 Lawnboy on 09.11.18 at 8:33 pm

Post 9-11/

When Bush was looking for a second” Go Round”, 2003 ish, I happened upon good old Ralph Nader speaking in Kingston Ont trying to get air time for his run at the presidency. He was doing his best Pat Paulson impression when he stated ” We in the USA are only one act of terrorism away from a totally fascist state”.

Rocked me big time..anyone else remember the last go at a third party attempt in the USA?

#74 Iconoclast on 09.11.18 at 8:37 pm

Oh yes, September 11.

How does the US commemorate this terrible day?
By allying with Al-Qaeda in Syria. Yes, that very same Al-Qaeda.
The US is now defending these “freedom fighters” against the Syrian Army.

If the WTC dead could talk, what would they say about that?

#75 Big Tee on 09.11.18 at 8:37 pm

Populism is another term for democracy. It’s not a bad thing no matter how you try to spin in. It’s democracy.

You are correct. Also known as the tyranny of democracy. It’s what come next that makes history. – Garth

#76 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 09.11.18 at 8:39 pm

The number of housing starts in Kelowna continues to drop, but the 2018 total remains well above the 10-year average.

Single starts are down 29 per cent in 2018 compared to 2017, while multi-unit segments have decreased by 28 per cent.

“Despite this decrease in construction activity, the pace of housing starts in 2018 remains well above the 10-year average,” Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation analyst Taylor Pardy said in a press release.

There were 31 single starts in Kelowna in August compared to 56 last year. The same trend occurred in multi-unit starts; there were 444 in August 2017 but just 295 this year.

Vernon had 20 overall starts in August compared to 18 in the same month last year. Despite the relatively quiet August, the city is still well ahead of 2017 construction levels.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-236260-1-.htm#236260

#77 SWL on 09.11.18 at 8:42 pm

#12 Ex-Cowtown

…fleeing climate change…

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please name one person who is a bon afide climate change refugee, or one group of people.

Conflating real problems with imaginary ones is a sin.

==============

Some people really can’t see past their front porch

Inside Kiribati: The Island Being Erased By Climate Change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plzBaNaCIv4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ0j6kr4ZJ0

This is only just the beginning

—————-

9/11 was a tragic day and sadly the truth will never be told as to what really happened or who was really responsible.

The war on terror is a perpetual war with a fictitious enemy

War is terror

#78 Tony on 09.11.18 at 8:47 pm

I remember I woke up that day around 10:10am and put on my television in my bedroom. So I put it on and what? I see this burning tower then keep changing the channels thinking my tv set busted.

#79 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 09.11.18 at 8:49 pm

#73 Big Tee on 09.11.18 at 8:37 pm
Populism is another term for democracy. It’s not a bad thing no matter how you try to spin in. It’s democracy.

You are correct. Also known as the tyranny of democracy. It’s what come next that makes history. – Garth
……………………………….

Democracy. Preferable to the tyranny of a minority, wouldn’t you say ?

#80 Newcomer on 09.11.18 at 8:52 pm

I was a mile away and watched it from my roof. I had friends in the towers. They all made it out. What I can tell you is that New Yorkers got over it faster than anyone else. We had better things to do than let those a-holes write the narrative.

#81 Dan on 09.11.18 at 8:53 pm

Was waking up in Cuba when i turned on the tv around 9am and saw our world unravel and darkness fall. Went back to Montreal a couple days late and flew the whole way over the Atlantic. Used to jump-seat on multiple flights, that came to a stop immediately and so much more.

#82 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.18 at 8:57 pm

#11 crossbordershopper on 09.11.18 at 4:56 pm
——————————————
A burning inferno on top of steel beams heats up the beams to a point where they lose structural integrity.

#83 Tony on 09.11.18 at 8:58 pm

I remember I kept thinking that day if I had of been playing a pinball machine at the Broadway Arcade I would have kept on playing it while both twin towers crumbled. It’s never been any different. Back then I was playing pinball 12 hours a day every day for decades.

#84 Skeptic Guy! on 09.11.18 at 8:58 pm

Bush and his cronies ruined America by his power play of attacks on the regime changes that where made in countries like Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria, and the ISSIS situation.
Islamaphobia is the new norm, homeland security the solution to millions of refugees. 911, was the story that aided and abetted the legitimization of the policies to
support these dissasterous actions. Anybody with any sense knows it was an inside job. Funny thing is the good citizens believe that the U.S was actually attacked and there’s a serious threat to there freedom. ……. what a joke! What a disgrace they tolerate this climate of fear.

#85 Wrk.dover on 09.11.18 at 8:59 pm

David vs Goliath was the enemy theme of that day.

#86 TT on 09.11.18 at 9:02 pm

I remember waking up to sounds of chaos via my radio alarm … .. actually i clearly remember the reporter commenting on the loud explosions in and around the WTC after the `planes` hit , saying that they sound like bombs and telling people to move away from the area. .. dont be fooled people … ask any demolition expert how a controlled demolition works. if it looks like , smells like and acts like a fish ………

#87 Drill Baby Drill on 09.11.18 at 9:04 pm

I was 48 yrs old when this 9-11 happened. It was beyond shocking and somehow not real. It took several days for this horrible event to sink in. When it did I was very disturbed by the fact that all aircraft to and from the USA were not given landing rights except for the Saudi delegation. The Saudis in the USA were allowed to leave unannounced. How convenient. Bush Jr has a lot to answer for. Oil , I mean Big Oil has all of the power.

#88 MLK on 09.11.18 at 9:07 pm

It’s CHEAP when the truth cuts deep!!

It’s the dumbazz comment of the year when you and your privileged friends & family can’t relate.

How we forget the REAL hero’s of the past that suffered great atrocities by the hands of this continents (fake founders) so we could all live a life of entitlement and materialism.

What a shame.

#89 Doug t on 09.11.18 at 9:09 pm

Within 15 minutes of 911 I suspected the truth that it was a false flag op and in the fullness of time I was proven correct. Then again the truth is not popular or PC.

Tell the thousands who died it was a hoax. – Garth

Not hoax Garth but a premeditated and horrible act of cowardice by the PTB in Washington to seed fear and compliance of the masses which has worked BRILLIANTLY and sadly

RATM

RATM

#90 Drill Baby Drill on 09.11.18 at 9:10 pm

Populism is what happens when so called democracy let’s the people down. People eventually realize that “hey only certain connected persons really get the plumb deals”. Then a leader shows up and is able to articulate at the level required to round up the masses against the incumbent and vote them out. Please do not denigrate the populist they are a necessity.

#91 Hiding On the Backstreets on 09.11.18 at 9:16 pm

@ #77 SWL on 09.11.18 at 8:42 pm

9/11 was a tragic day and sadly the truth will never be told as to what really happened or who was really responsible.

The war on terror is a perpetual war with a fictitious enemy

War is terror

—————–

Still the full truth eludes us. Has there ever been a proper investigation of the “terrorism” crimes of 9-11?
The 9-11 Commission report – loads of redacted pages. No video of the plane hitting the Pentagram.

Coincidentally, destroying the Department of Offence accounting info the day after Rumsfeld announced the “missing” trillions of $US.

Just like the Project for the New American Century planned. Endless war. Good business if you’re on the flat end of the bullet.

#92 ww1 on 09.11.18 at 9:17 pm

Why is it so hard for people to understand that the fires in the WTC towers did not need to be hot enough to melt steel (~1510°C) ?

The towers came down because of a “loss of strength due to the temperature of the fire, and loss of structural integrity due to distortion.”

Steel starts to soften at 425°C and loses half it’s strength at at 650°C. Equally important is the elongation that occurs as steel reaches 650°C and starts to buckle. The fires in the WTC were more than hot enough to create that sort of damage.

Simple material science and physics. Not nearly as much fun as all the tin hat conspiracy theories.

Source : Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

#93 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 09.11.18 at 9:31 pm

#68 Steven Rowlandson on 09.11.18 at 8:17 pm
Within 15 minutes of 911 I suspected the truth that it was a false flag op and in the fullness of time I was proven correct. Then again the truth is not popular or PC.

Tell the thousands who died it was a hoax. – Garth
_____________________________________________

He didn’t say hoax, he said false flag op, meaning the Americans did it themselves, to justify invading Afghanistan. It is a popular conspiracy theory.

False Flag 911: How Bush, Cheney and the Saudis Created the Post-911 World

https://www.amazon.ca/False-Flag-911-Created-Post-911/dp/1439202648

#94 Long-Time Lurker on 09.11.18 at 9:32 pm

Old Glory everywhere and at half-mast here today.

Looking around, it’s obvious that the USA was built on immigration and that immigration here is alive and well today. All these people from around the world came here for a better life and are hard at work pursuing The American Dream.

Neil Diamond, Coming to America
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQ26iSBG-E

#95 tccontrarian on 09.11.18 at 9:33 pm

“Now I will listen for airplanes on the way home.” GT
——————————————-

I’m watching for missiles!

(Still haven’t found evidence to support the airplane theories concocted by guvermant)

TCC

#96 NoName on 09.11.18 at 9:40 pm

I listen to this few weeks ago on a way home. Very interesting and touches on the aftermath of 9-11.

Freakonomics interview with Kenneth Feinberg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr-J2wZ_zHY

#97 Fakeologist on 09.11.18 at 9:40 pm

http://fakeologist.com/s/sc

#98 Julie K. on 09.11.18 at 9:49 pm

Chills reading todays post. Thank you.

#99 Hiding On the Backstreets on 09.11.18 at 10:00 pm

@ #92 ww1 on 09.11.18 at 9:17 pm

Steel starts to soften at 425°C and loses half it’s strength at at 650°C. Equally important is the elongation that occurs as steel reaches 650°C and starts to buckle. The fires in the WTC were more than hot enough to create that sort of damage.

Simple material science and physics. Not nearly as much fun as all the tin hat conspiracy theories.

——————

Has any steel structure in the world ever collapsed from fire like the twin towers? How about Building 7? On fire too?

#100 A Yank in BC on 09.11.18 at 10:06 pm

Yes.. the skies became quiet that day, and remained so for a couple of days afterwards. When things resumed, the demand for air travel fell off a cliff. But look at the comeback commercial aviation has made since. Two and a half times more people (annually) fly now than before 9-11. The terrorists lost that one big-time. Even Warren Buffett is now an investor.

The World moved on.. most live a life better than before.. and BL became fish excrement.

#101 OttawaMike on 09.11.18 at 10:12 pm

1.25 trillion dollars spent by USA on wars over that 17 years since 9/11.
Imagine if we had invested that in alternate energy research or even battery technology.

The war that petroleum indirectly started perversely keeps us behoven to petroleum.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/10/the-us-has-spent-1point5-trillion-on-war-since-september-11-attacks.html

#102 FATLADY on 09.11.18 at 10:25 pm

WE hold hands with America when she gets the taste slapped out of her mouth.

YET we support the hate she spreads around the globe because she cant survive without cheap child foreign labor, cheap oil, and the intimidation of military bases on every country on the planet.

The ARABS crashed their planes into the WTC just for the same reason the JAPANESE attacked Pearl Harbor.

Why would a little flea try to attack an elephant?

You ever ask yourself why?????

#103 Capt. Serious on 09.11.18 at 10:33 pm

I remember exactly where I was. Working in the lab. First job after university. Barely on the job two months. A guy came into the lab and told me what was going on. I went to the lunch room and stood around like everyone else, watching the second plane hit, watching the towers collapse, knowing the world had changed. And yes, it was eerie to have the skies cleared of planes and quiet.
A few years following I found myself in NYC on a couple of week-ends when in the US for work, and I remember the tower site as just a hole in the ground. Sobering.

The US then made some pretty awful policy decisions, but what do we expect when the mighty are cut?

#104 Joe on 09.11.18 at 10:36 pm

it is not good to eat much honey, nor is it glorious to seek one’s own glory.

#105 Nuke on 09.11.18 at 10:37 pm

9/11 was the day that the world woke up and knew the USA was alone to fight its own wars. When the planes hit the WTC it was foreign news so didn’t have much impact on my day then or since.

#106 Suburban Guy on 09.11.18 at 10:37 pm

Right,
I first heard it in my car listening to a news crew speaking to drivers at the side of the road and being told how a missile came overhead and hit the Pentagon. I thought, “What country has decided to wage war on the U.S., because crazies don’t have missiles, only countries.” But….those interviews fell into the abyss.

We don’t have to be able to explain all the details of what actually happened. We just know that the official explanation is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
..Engineers & Architects for 9/11 truth.

#107 SoggyShorts on 09.11.18 at 10:39 pm

#31 IHCTD9 on 09.11.18 at 6:25 pm
#28 Dusty on 09.11.18 at 6:12 pm
#12 Ex-cowtown

Droughts have been happening since the beginning of time.

30 million refugees from Bangladesh absolutely will not end up in Europe.
******************************
Be careful with the anti-climate position of “These things always happened”
Yes, we’ve always had temperature fluctuations, flooding, fires, drought etc.
What is new is the speed of change and the frequency of events.

For example, there is always the hottest day record being broken, but to break the record 9 times in 10 years is something new.
https://xkcd.com/1732/

#108 Suburban Guy on 09.11.18 at 10:41 pm

ww1
Unfortunately, molten steel was found in the basement of the fallen building. It is well documented by first responders and others.
BTW, why did 4 building come down that day? Oh, you didn’t know that WTC 6 and WTC 7 also came down.

#109 macroman on 09.11.18 at 10:47 pm

911 spawned the destruction of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and now Syria and Yemen. Soon to be Iran.

When are all you 911 sympathizer going to get a clue?

#110 Where's The Money Greedo? on 09.11.18 at 10:48 pm

More evidence that the BC Lieberal criminal gang (imo) snubbed their overseers while they bled BC Hydro dry.
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-hydro-called-on-secrecy-but-have-they-learned-their-lesson
There has to be a change in law in Canada that makes politicians responsible for whom they put in public utilities and what consequences are derived from those actions, including their own actions while governing. Ontario Hydro, BC Hydro-ICBC-IPPs-Phoenix Payroll etc etc all should have people who signed off on those in jail for malfeasance, including municipal gov’ts.
https://theprovince.com/news/politics/b-c-s-largest-cities-on-a-spending-spree-for-last-decade-report/wcm/3dc02716-1eb9-4afc-b648-f12a4ceb634b
This has become laughable as year after year, taxpayers hear of one boondoggle after another costing hundreds and billions of taxpayer dollars if you include Phoenix.
These people at least should lose their gold plated pensions for the destruction wrought on the plebes.
Jail should be also in the cards, especially those in top positions because they are the ones who put their cronies in those positions, signed off on the deals and get the most money.
Utterly shameful, makes my blood boil.
They will not change until we do.
Time for some house cleaning, starting with those bureaucrats behind the scenes.

#111 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.11.18 at 10:52 pm

Have they found the weapons of mass destruction yet?
Pretty much destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan just to chase down on guy.
Pretty sick if you ask me.

#112 Jimers on 09.11.18 at 10:52 pm

9/11 was an inside job, the swamp must be drained.

#113 akashic record on 09.11.18 at 10:56 pm

9/11, the public launch date of global Matrix.
Check what happened to mankind since then.

#114 Where's The Money Greedo? on 09.11.18 at 11:03 pm

I remember clearly what happened that day.
I was just having a coffee at the couch when someone phoned me.
The comversation went like this:
“Hello.”
“Turn on your TV”
I turned it on and at that moment I saw a plane hit the first tower…
I was gobsmacked.
I asked the guy who he was, I don’t remember his name, but I’ll never forget what he said to me.
He said, “Can you believe this, I’m in New York and just saw this too, but have I got a deal for you. I have a great fund you can get in on that is supposed to go to the moon! Are you interested?”
Again, I was gobsmacked. I asked him how he got my number in Canada and why did he phone today.
He just said that he was going through his contact list.
I asked how did he get my contact and that’s when he hung up.
I still wonder wtf was up that day.
How did this guy from New York know to phone me and just when the plane was going to hit.
Totally smelled to high heaven. Seemed way to much of a coincidence. Trying to get as many people in the know by camouflaging a cold call.
After that I never trusted the “official” narrative on those towers and have never trusted a word out of a US President’s mouth since, that now includes Canadian-UK Prime Ministers-Premiers.

#115 Jimers on 09.11.18 at 11:04 pm

#75 Big Tee on 09.11.18 at 8:37 pm

Yes, thank God for our Constitution. Democracy is mob rule. Two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.

#116 Keith on 09.11.18 at 11:08 pm

Haven’t heard this one, but if it’s true it’s proof of the awesomeness of dogs.

James Crane worked on the 101st floor of Tower 1 of the World Trade Center … He is blind so he has a golden retriever named Daisy.
After the plane hit 20 stories below, James knew that he was doomed, so he let Daisy go, out of an act of love.
She darted away into the darkened hallway.
Choking on the fumes of the jet fuel and the smoke James was just waiting to die. About 30 minutes later, Daisy comes back along with James’ boss, Who Daisy just happened to pick up on floor 112 on her first run of the building, she leads James, James’ boss, and about 300 more people out of the doomed building.
But she wasn’t through yet, she knew there were others who were trapped. So, highly against James’ wishes she ran back in the building.
On her second run, she saved 392 lives. Again she went back in. During this run, the building collapses.
James hears about this and falls on his knees into tears.
Against all known odds, Daisy makes it out alive, but this time she is carried by a firefighter. “She led us right to the people, before she got injured” the fireman explained.
Her final run saved another 273 lives. She suffered acute smoke inhalation, severe burns on all four paws, and a broken leg, but she saved 967 lives.
Daisy is the first civilian Canine to win the Medal of Honor of New York City.
Pass it on to all animal lovers.

#117 Louise on 09.11.18 at 11:12 pm

To #52

My next door neighbor died at the wtc. A young father with a daughter who just turned 1. There were many people who died that day including restaurant workers, a priest, fireman and of course some people working financial services. Who cares what they did for a living – innocent people doing their jobs!

Remember the saying if you have nothing nice to say don’t say anything.

Garth really – how could you not remove that posting.

#118 macroman on 09.11.18 at 11:15 pm

Garth, #68, 8:17, there is a difference between a hoax and a False Flag.

One is propaganda and the other is reality propaganda…

#119 As Is Old Man on 09.11.18 at 11:16 pm

Sitting watching Mark Haines on CNBC and saw it play out in real-time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmYT4rSsGIo

Soon Mark would refuse to go to commercials…

Later in the day I felt something in my jacket pocket and pulled out the WTC tour receipt incorrectly dated Sept 9, but I actually visited in early August. I suppose it’s possible some people actually had tickets dated Sept 11 or later…we passed on an invitation to the Rainbow room as I wanted to see the WTC. Went for the simulated helicopter tour of lower Manhattan – where the seats are tilted in sync to the helicopter flight…

#120 As Is Old Man on 09.11.18 at 11:25 pm

And Amazon was trading at $8.65.

#121 Bob Dog on 09.11.18 at 11:31 pm

I see the conspiracy nut jobs are still at it.

1. You don’t have to melt steel trusses to bend them.

2. The potential energy released by gravity over 30 seconds was equally to the energy required to erect the buildings over several years. That created a lot of heat which weakened the steel framwork of the other buildings that fell later.

#122 OffshoreObserver on 09.11.18 at 11:33 pm

On that day, I stayed in bed watching the TV. Stunned. Shocked. Sickened.

Despite half a Trillion of taxpayers’ money, neither the FBI nor CIA caught the plot.

Knee-jerk government reaction: another ineffective, expensive bureaucracy called FEMA. [They were proven useless in Katrina in New Orleans.]

R.I.P. 911 Victims.

#123 Dogger on 09.12.18 at 12:00 am

Great post, Garth. And MLK is an @#$#.

#124 LG on 09.12.18 at 12:10 am

Remember 9 11 well. Was in the financial industry for yrs & dealt with a lot of traders at a lot of the firms in both towers. Cantor, Dean Witter, B of A, Solomon, Morgan Stanley, Nesbitt, Bear Sterns, etc. Remember being on top of the WTC in 1997 before being on the floor of the NY stock exchange for 2 days. Something I’ll never forget.

#125 Smoking Man on 09.12.18 at 12:31 am

Last post on 911.

Where do I start. Kenndy wanted to go clean green on plasma flyers, zero point energy. So much for the oil industry.

Sept 11 2001.. Globalists flexed their muscles. Cabal of crooks and thieves. Robert Mueller. Signed off on visas for some of the 911 sky pilots.. Trumps boy Rudy.. He was in on it all the way Funny.

An entire post 911 generation of children were delibaratly dumb down via school. Zero critical thinking skills.

Trump on public recorded saying explosives took down the buildings.

Keep your friends close enemies closer.

Trump would long ago have been assassinated. He has help. Aliens and Qanon. Trained by good aliens.

Zero point energy being held back by Justin Trudeau backers. Saudi Arabia.

Yes I’m hammered out of my mind and suffering from big time dementia.

#126 Ken From BC on 09.12.18 at 12:36 am

The day that the WTC came down, I was in a remote mining camp in far eastern Russia. We were all gathered around a small TV in the cook house watching in silence, Russians and expats alike. I recall the shock that we all experienced and was moved by the Russian’s empathy for us North Americans (8 of 60 on site). There was definitely a unified feeling that a great tragedy had occurred and that we had to unite as one to combat the terror regardless of our political differences and geographical borders. I felt a part of the world as opposed to a member of a nation.

#127 Hamcouver on 09.12.18 at 12:52 am

That was a really lovely post today Garth.
I was working with a wonderful doctor from the Northern Frontier in Pakistan who had trained in Afghanistan on that day in a medical clinic in Ireland. He became somewhat of a source of fascination in the doctors lounge as he would describe the tribal regions he came from with their complicated politics, and studying in Kabul. A kinder, gentler man you could not meet. The week afterward- he had to move his wife who was also a physician, and child, out of London as they were being spat on on the Tube. He chuckled a few weeks later when one of the shop assistants in the little hospital newsagents ( probably thinking he did not speak English by his dress and by the colour of his skin) was overheard by him saying to her colleague “you see your man over there….I bet he’s one of those Talibans”…..
He took this all in his stride with his humour and gentle demeanor. Let us all learn not to judge people by their outward appearance, religion or colour. Terrorists come in all colours and from all “religions” as evidenced well by history. Tackling poverty, lack of opportunity and education and oppression is IMHO the only way to deal with the root of the problem. Let us think of all families affected by violence today.

#128 n1tro on 09.12.18 at 12:52 am

#82 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.18 at 8:57 pm
#11 crossbordershopper on 09.11.18 at 4:56 pm
——————————————
A burning inferno on top of steel beams heats up the beams to a point where they lose structural integrity.
———————–
Heats up to lose structural integrity…to collapse on itself…and when the dust settled, the beams looked to be “heated” up all at the same angle.

Fires do the craziest things! Like how how crews cleaning up the rubble reported molten metal still smoldering underneath days after. Physics defying!

But then again, was there a fire at building 7? People near the building reported hearing several “booms” before the building collapsed on itself.

I guess I’m a “tin foiler” but come on folks…what are the odds of jet fuel burning so intense that it melted steel beams all at the same angle, somehow knocks down a building blocks away, while leaving a perfectly in tact passport of the main suspect to be found on the ground, just to name a few oddities??

#129 n1tro on 09.12.18 at 1:03 am

#92 ww1 on 09.11.18 at 9:17 pm

Simple material science and physics. Not nearly as much fun as all the tin hat conspiracy theories
——————
Please kind sir, apply “material science and physics” and tell us how a paper passport of the main terrorist found its way out of his jacket as the plane he just flew into a building which exploded instantly…survived in tact to be found on live TV ? Just one of those things that happens every day I guess. Nothing to see here.

#130 Smoking Man on 09.12.18 at 1:08 am

Real men that sport Walmart Flip Flops and have small dogs are fearless idiots. That’s me .

We are protectors.

Got to hand it to the writers of Ozark. Net flicks hit. The actors are dumb idiots, memorize regurgitate just like collage . The writers , all libtard freek shows. But credit where credit is due. Nice work ass holes.

#131 NEVER GIVE UP on 09.12.18 at 1:34 am

Dolce Vita #51 communism was never a left-wing practice. It was simple and purely corrupt fascism.

Try to remember that when you enjoy one of the world’s greatest Healthcare Systems in Italy. I believe it’s number one or number two in the world

#132 Myra Andrews on 09.12.18 at 1:37 am

Inventory just hit !3,000 today

Real Estate stats for the Greater Vancouver area from realtor Paul Boenisch

Sept 11 New 325 Sold 77 TI:13,057
Sept 10 New 487 Sold 87 TI:12,916

Sept 7 New 197 Sold 87 TI:12,681
Sept 5|6 New 609 Sold 195 TI: 12,653
Sept 4 New 498 Sold 53 TI: 12,439

Inventory at the end of August was 12,510

#133 Smoking Man on 09.12.18 at 1:39 am

MSN. https://youtu.be/5BmEGm-mraE

Your so old.

#134 majik on 09.12.18 at 2:01 am

17 years and nobody even remotely connected with the event has been tried or convicted. Obstructions of justice by the US goverment itself at every step of the way. Disgusting.

#135 stage1dave on 09.12.18 at 2:04 am

Nicely written, Mr. Turner…

I’ve always enjoyed the wide range of opinions on this forum, and have no problem with the posts alleging an inside job on 9-11, nor do I find those posts disrespectful to the victims.

There could be no higher respect given to this group by constantly questioning and investigating this tragedy; finding out who was actually responsible, and ultimately treating them with the same respect. Or lack thereof…

If the yearly anniversary is appropriate to remind all of us of the need for a real investigation, so be it…thats not disrespectful.

Anyway, I’d spent most of 2001 stateside collecting parts for a GSX I was building, scrounging parts all the way east to KY and running up and down I-15 between SLC and LA. Made it to the GS nats, unloaded a few extra pieces, looked at lotsa cool cars, and finally headed home in July. Told my buds down south I was done travelling for a year. The summer was spent trying to put all these damned Buicks together.

On Sept 10, left the TV on and woke up thinking I was watching a really bad disaster movie…the camera work was terrible! Took me a few minutes to realize what was actually happening.

Once the first building fell, I can remember thinking we were moving into a different world…an understated thought in retrospect.

This event has been used to turn all of us into suspects, and legitimize perpetuàl war against a noun…anywhere.

Lastly, check out the mortality rates of the first responders…and their cancer rates. Another sad legacy…

#136 Viorellie on 09.12.18 at 2:46 am

Its hard to say who is right and who is wrong, people always find enemies and excuses why their way is the “best for the nation”. Sooner or later all countries, empires, and strong leaders evaporate into the books of history as a distant and an insignificant memory. Roman empire, Napoleon Bonaparte, Chengis Khan, the Golden Horde, , Hitler, USSR, etc. If you think that neoliberal Europe or the USA will get a different fate, think again. The nations able to resist the change (feminism, populism, excessive diversity, gender neutral BS), will survive and prosper longer. Try selling drugs in China to an underaged child, a bullet to the head will follow. Try becoming a transgender in Saudi Arabia, good luck! See if a recent refugee can rape a girl in Russia and survive, not a chance, etc. The western system is rotting from within and while remnants of prosperity remain for certain people and corporations, this will also one day come to a bitter end. I hope this day will not come for my offspring and their kids. We all want to live in peace, but the rules of the jungle are always the same.

#137 Wrk.dover on 09.12.18 at 6:15 am

Wonderful diversity in the comment section last night.

After Rochmans bomb van was parked in the wrong position in the WTC for instant success, than the fully loaded high jacked jet thing yet to happen was a when not if, inevitably.

Conspirators on both side of the fence had themselves a plot to thicken on that meme.

Oil!

The Lords prayer should start thus:

Give us this day our daily oil….

#138 Glengarry Girl on 09.12.18 at 6:49 am

This post really exposed some Ugly minds, some of these comments are cringe worthy. This is becoming a safe place for those intolerant Haters, just sayin.

Censorship will change nothing. To confront and deal with hate, we must first understand it. Many comments on this thread have troubled me deeply. But retreat or coverup is no way to remedy prejudice and ignorance. – Garth

#139 Keith in Rio on 09.12.18 at 7:02 am

Populism is the left wing elites code word for those pesky citizens who are tired of being manipulated, lied to, stolen from, and abused.

Bring it on !!!!

Sweden, Germany, USA, Brasil, Hungsry, Poland, Czechoslovakia and others are just notable examples of the individual taking bavk their rights and freedoms from these socialist, liberal, communist, progressive scum of the earth.

Be careful what you wish for. – Garth

#140 5th highest deficit in US history on 09.12.18 at 7:19 am

keep in mind this administration inherited a healthy economy

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-budget-deficit-widens-to-fifth-highest-ever-cbo-reports-2018-09-11

L Kudrow
‘as the economy gears up, more people working , better jobs and careers, those revenues come rolling in ,and the deficit which was one of the other criticisms , is coming down. And its coming down rapidly’

they, desperately, need somebody that can do math

#141 dharma bum on 09.12.18 at 7:50 am

And all the while, Justin Trudeau continues to embrace the enemy.

Chrystia Freeland? – Garth

#142 Tater on 09.12.18 at 7:55 am

#11 crossbordershopper on 09.11.18 at 4:56 pm
still trying to figure out how you cut the top off a tree that the entire tree falls down.like in sequence.
without help.
or building 7, no one bombed it, and it was 2 blocks away from the world trade centre. and how 48 stories come down without a bang , bomb or anything, half hour later.
and surprisingly no one was in at the time. everyone was told the week before to not come in monday.
im just saying anything, just that sometimes things are not what they seem.
God Bless America
————————————————————-
Luckily, you being an idiot is exactly what it seems.

WTC 7 sustained damage when 1 and 2 fell, including a gash in the building that was about 10 stories tall. You can easily find pictures of this. Combine that with fires, and a failure in the sprinkler system and a collapse isn’t surprising.

And, no, there weren’t any causalities because the building had been evacuated, along with most of lower Manhattan when the second tower was hit.

WTC 7 collapsed after 5pm, who in their right mind would have sat there for 8 hours after the first plane hit?

#143 Chico on 09.12.18 at 7:58 am

#72 Iconoclast on 09.11.18 at 8:33 pm

MLK: Cry me a river about residential schools. I’m sick of hearing about it.

Free food, free clothes, free books, free everything. “Ripped away from parents” like every kid who went to boarding school ever. A trip to Hogwarts, where the magic was electricity.

The abuse… no excuse for that. But it turns out it’s hardly a Canadian innovation.
The vicious pedo priests (and nuns) were kiddy diddling everywhere. Ireland. Australia. USA.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orphanage-death-catholic-abuse-nuns-st-josephs

It messed some of them up for sure, but it should never have become the all-purpose excuse for every native failing that it did.

———————————————————–

Clearly, you’ve never gotten to know these people well and hear their stories and how horrid they are.

It’s too bad you don’t care.

Q: If a couple gets married and has a child, what becomes the heartbeat of the marriage?
A: The child.

The government took 4 and 5 year olds away from their parents. If you take a young child out of the home you rip out the heart of the parents!

The intentions were never good, they were done to destroy the first nations people in a systematic manner. I have lots of first nations friends and there is no other way to describe what the intentions of my white fore fathers were.

Saying “the abuses weren’t good,” is a gross understatement. Their young children were in the “formative years” and they were conditioned to believe that they were garbage. These people grew up and parented from that perspective of being garbage.

If will take many generations for these people to heal and grow healthy communities.

And it has zero to do with the topic at hand, Nine Eleven. The convo is over. – Garth

#144 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 8:00 am

#92 ww1 on 09.11.18 at 9:17 pm
Why is it so hard for people to understand that the fires in the WTC towers did not need to be hot enough to melt steel (~1510°C) ?

The towers came down because of a “loss of strength due to the temperature of the fire, and loss of structural integrity due to distortion.”

Steel starts to soften at 425°C and loses half it’s strength at at 650°C. Equally important is the elongation that occurs as steel reaches 650°C and starts to buckle. The fires in the WTC were more than hot enough to create that sort of damage

#145 Evangeline on 09.12.18 at 8:24 am

#106 Suburban Guy “Engineers & Architects for 9/11 truth”

Do a lot of people belong to that group?

#146 KLNR on 09.12.18 at 8:44 am

@#136 Viorellie on 09.12.18 at 2:46 am
Its hard to say who is right and who is wrong, people always find enemies and excuses why their way is the “best for the nation”. Sooner or later all countries, empires, and strong leaders evaporate into the books of history as a distant and an insignificant memory. Roman empire, Napoleon Bonaparte, Chengis Khan, the Golden Horde, , Hitler, USSR, etc. If you think that neoliberal Europe or the USA will get a different fate, think again. The nations able to resist the change (feminism, populism, excessive diversity, gender neutral BS), will survive and prosper longer. Try selling drugs in China to an underaged child, a bullet to the head will follow. Try becoming a transgender in Saudi Arabia, good luck! See if a recent refugee can rape a girl in Russia and survive, not a chance, etc. The western system is rotting from within and while remnants of prosperity remain for certain people and corporations, this will also one day come to a bitter end. I hope this day will not come for my offspring and their kids. We all want to live in peace, but the rules of the jungle are always the same.
_________________

lol, life in the western world is better for most people right now than it ever has been in history.

#147 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 8:45 am

#92 ww1 on 09.11.18 at 9:17 pm
Why is it so hard for people to understand that the fires in the WTC towers did not need to be hot enough to melt steel (~1510°C) ?

The towers came down because of a “loss of strength due to the temperature of the fire, and loss of structural integrity due to distortion.”

Steel starts to soften at 425°C and loses half it’s strength at at 650°C. Equally important is the elongation that occurs as steel reaches 650°C and starts to buckle. The fires in the WTC were more than hot enough to create that sort of damage.
———-

Yep, it’s pretty amazing how fast steel turns into spaghetti once you apply heat. Last summer I was burning some scrap wood in a 55 gal burn barrel. I had also prepared a second smaller 20 litre drum filled with nasty stuff and sealed in order to gasify it to keep the burn clean.

I supported this pail with a 3/4” dia steel round bar across the opening of the 55 gallon drum with the 20 litre pail hanging from it by the handle and dangling into the fire. The pail weighed about 15-20 lbs, the span of the drum was about 23”.

I work in the steel industry, so I happen to know that the hot rolled bar I was using to hang the 20 litre pail over the fire was a CSA G40.21 300W bar which has a min 44 ksi yield, but typically runs closer to 50ksi if you look at the MTR. The standard structural steel grade for beams (CSA G40.21 350W / or ASTM A572 Gr. 50 in the US) specifies 50 ksiy minimum. So the bar holding my little pail was probably very similar in strength to the steels that built the backbone of the WTC towers.

Within 20 minutes, the bar had sagged considerably as the load bearing ability of the bar was literally chopped in half by the heat. This, from a lazy wood fire in a barrel.

I also have a 2’ x 2’ sheet of 3/4-9F expanded metal I use to cover the barrel top when I burn paper or cardboard to keep the “floaties” from drifting out of the barrel and flying out into the field. This sheet can not even support its own unloaded weight when it gets hot, it sags and forms a bowl shape, and I have to keep flipping it like a pancake to keep it flat.

IMHO, the WTC towers did better than what I would have guessed given the infurno that must have been raging inside.

#148 crowdedelevatorfartz on 09.12.18 at 8:45 am

@ # 48 MLK

My…… how empathetic.
Let me guess.
Suffering from the latest psychological disorder.
Middle Child Syndrome?

It would explain a lot.

#149 TurnerNation on 09.12.18 at 8:46 am

All I know is that in my 4 decades I’ve learned only two historical events must not be questioned. To do so is suicide to one’s career, personal life and finances.
Is this my take-away of being human? That some
over-reaching social force must be acting on my mind at all times…or else? The Church of State.

(Say that government weed is looking mighty attractive at this point yes?)

I’d be remiss if I did not recognize the efforts of D. Rumsfeld that day, who was photographed carrying pieces of wreckage from the hot zone crash site at Pentagon. Totally what’s I’d expect, and from a top official in the land.

#150 Truenorthlander on 09.12.18 at 8:52 am

“Since then it’s not hard to argue that extremes have formed. ” Garth, I think this time you have got it wrong all the things you suggest that have changed since the attack were happening since the Reagan era. “Globalism and nationalism. The gulf between the wealthy and the rest. Left and right. Con and Lib. Free traders and protectionists.” In Canada it was the the awful Byfields and the Reform Party that polarized the country.

#151 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 9:03 am

#11 crossbordershopper on 09.11.18 at 4:56 pm
still trying to figure out how you cut the top off a tree that the entire tree falls down.like in sequence.
without help.
or building 7, no one bombed it, and it was 2 blocks away from the world trade centre. and how 48 stories come down without a bang , bomb or anything, half hour later.
and surprisingly no one was in at the time. everyone was told the week before to not come in monday.
im just saying anything, just that sometimes things are not what they seem.
God Bless America
———-

We can’t hope to ever understand the complexities of the TTC collapses. Way too much going on, it’s all guesswork. Some victims just “disappeared” with nothing to be found of them after the collapse, others were pulled alive from the rubble and still live today.

For a regular dude to “try and figure out” the series of events that befell the towers is a joke. Folks that actually have the credentials to at least make an educated guess are still only taking a stab at it. Some dude who flips burgers for a living can’t claim it’s an inside job just because he can’t figure it out himself.

There are many strange things we can’t explain that are known 100% to exist. That’s cool, we’re never going to understand everything that’s out there. We don’t need to come up with some crazy inside job explanation for it.

#152 Alistair McLaughlin on 09.12.18 at 9:21 am

@#147 crowdedelevatorfartz,

Nah, no need to assign pathology. It’s just the usual virtue signalling. Likely MLK was brought up to be like that. Certainly he was educated to be like that. You’re quite right though, MLK probably thinks he’s emanating true empathy from his pure and compassionate heart. It never occurred to him that his facile comment is motivated by self-interest; specifically by his desire to be seen expressing the “correct” views. It no doubt irks him that he didn’t receive immediate accolades and praise for his obviously well developed social conscience. But he’ll show his parents and his friends and his professor, and he’ll get that little endorphin boost his fragile ego so desperately needs.

#153 Be Civil on 09.12.18 at 9:21 am

#125 Smoking Man on 09.12.18 at 12:31 am

Last post on 911.

Where do I start. Kenndy wanted to go clean green on plasma flyers, zero point energy. So much for the oil industry.

Sept 11 2001.. Globalists flexed their muscles. Cabal of crooks and thieves. Robert Mueller. Signed off on visas for some of the 911 sky pilots.. Trumps boy Rudy.. He was in on it all the way Funny.

An entire post 911 generation of children were delibaratly dumb down via school. Zero critical thinking skills.

Trump on public recorded saying explosives took down the buildings.

Keep your friends close enemies closer.

Trump would long ago have been assassinated. He has help. Aliens and Qanon. Trained by good aliens.

Zero point energy being held back by Justin Trudeau backers. Saudi Arabia.

Yes I’m hammered out of my mind and suffering from big time dementia.
___________________________________________
What has been determined through forensic examination and scientific testing as to the cause collapse of the World Trade Center towers on Sept 11, 2001 was that the steel was exposed to high temperatures and weakened it structurally due to the resultant crash and the burning of aviation fuel. If I may add, steel does not need to melt in order to be weakened. This placed too much of load on structural supports and the steel columns lost tensile and shear strength. What occurred next was what is now defined as a progressive collapse. Once one support failed it dropped down onto the next level putting too much load on other structural supports that were already weakened. It then repeated this process until the failure was overwhelming and thus complete devastation. 3000 people lost their lives now please do not besmirch their legacy with your rag tag conspiracy theories. You need some professional help.

#154 Evangeline on 09.12.18 at 9:21 am

#138 Glengarry Girl on 09.12.18 at 6:49 am
“This post really exposed some Ugly minds, some of these comments are cringe worthy. This is becoming a safe place for those intolerant Haters, just sayin”

What is your definition of an “Ugly mind”?

Some people believe that anyone who supports Trump has an ugly mind — racist, anti-immigrant, etc.

There are also people who do not believe that the constant drumbeat of hatred against Trump is not ugly and that things like a media person holding up a fake beheaded head of Trump is not an ugly mind.

#155 Stan Brooks on 09.12.18 at 9:27 am

Free-trade father figure Mulroney urges Ottawa to make a deal on NAFTA

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/freeland-head-back-washington-high-132418765.html

Look at the comments below that article.

We are truly delusional to think that we can manage without a deal with US.

We can stand on our own, ignore the orange clown,.. blah blah blah.

The regular population really has no clue on how much of our current lifestyle depends on NAFTA.
Total ignorance of reality.
No wonder we have the biggest credit bubble in the whole world in housing.

El borrego/burro est stupido.

#156 Evangeline on 09.12.18 at 9:31 am

CBS Evening News

@CBSEveningNews
“Isn’t that unbelievable?” An eagle landed on top of a 9/11 tribute display in Minnesota on the 17th anniversary of the attacks. Andover Fire Chief Jerry Streich shared video of the bird perched on an aerial truck holding the American flag.
4:55 PM – Sep 11, 2018

1,239

494 people are talking about this

#157 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 9:34 am

#134 majik on 09.12.18 at 2:01 am
17 years and nobody even remotely connected with the event has been tried or convicted. Obstructions of justice by the US goverment itself at every step of the way. Disgusting
——-

Ah… the guy who planned the whole thing received a 5.56mm cerebral lead injection courtesy of a Heckler & Koch HK416.

That’s good enough for me.

#158 RyYYZ on 09.12.18 at 9:35 am

For all you 9/11 conspiracy whackos who think that WTC 1 & 2 were brought down by explosives: where’s your proof?

We saw the planes fly into the towers. We saw the fires burning. We KNOW that happened. Where’s your proof that there were any explosives planted? If all you’ve got are conspiracies and unanswered questions, you’ve got nothing. And you’ve got nothing. Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen, proving them requires some real evidence, not more theories.

#159 SWL on 09.12.18 at 9:59 am

DELETED.

No more 911 conspiracy theory. We’re done with you. – Garth

#160 conan on 09.12.18 at 10:05 am

Re 12 lol at you. Flee Canada if the Harper 2.0 crew ever gets into power again. Bunch of Luddites.

#161 dollar cost averaging on 09.12.18 at 10:06 am

the markets are showing us , YET again, the value of dollar cost averaging Vs taking a large position on a given moment. I recall a blog entry advocating a bulk position.

History says DCA doesn’t work. And it doesn’t. – Garth

#162 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 10:07 am

#145 KLNR on 09.12.18 at 8:44 am
lol, life in the western world is better for most people right now than it ever has been in history.

By what measures?

#163 BillyBob on 09.12.18 at 10:47 am

I remember the day very well. My g/f at the time, also a pilot, woke me up and said to watch the tv. I was scheduled to work a shift at Vancouver airport at my job of the time as a medevac pilot, taking calls from the BC Ambulance service to move critically injured/ill patients from one part of BC to another.

Given that all North American airspace was closed I wasn’t sure if I was even expected at work, and couldn’t get through on any phone line to the airport to confirm, so I just headed there. After passing many checkpoints manned by grim-faced police I did make it to our base. And we were tasked that night to fly to Kamloops, transport a patient from there to Victoria, then return to Vancouver. I still remember having to receive faxed permission from Ottawa, who had to have each individual flight approved by NORAD. (Trivia aside: the NORAD command director on duty that day was a Canadian).

It was very spooky, being the only aircraft moving on the usually-busy airport. Flashing blue and red lights everywhere. Airborne, usually the radios would be busy with all of the aircraft/ATC communication. That night – silence. At the time of our flight, the only other aircraft we heard at all was an RCMP flight in some distant corner of the province. Eerie. In Victoria, even though winds slightly favoured runway 09 for departure, we were made to use the reciprocal runway 27 – our takeoff path on 09 would have pointed our small, fast Learjet at Washington state and they didn’t want even a slight risk of us penetrating US airspace.

Many changes since then. I’ve long since moved on to airline flying all over the world. Many procedures changed or were tightened, of course. One that many passengers may not be aware of is how quickly authorities respond now to “loss of communication” situations. It happens once in awhile, when one air traffic controller passes you along to the one in the next sector, if a call is missed and you travel beyond the radio range of the initial controller, a crew may not immediately realize they have lost radio contact. If this isn’t remedied, it won’t take long before something fast, armed, and military shows up on your left wingtip. They always intercept in flights of two. You’ll see the one on your left, who will try and get the attention of the crew on the radio and with various signals. But you’ll never see his partner, who’s positioned below and behind you. You can guess what his role is if you don’t respond satisfactorily to their intercept orders.

All in all a definite loss of innocence in the industry. I still bristle when I hear the trained monkeys who learned just enough to kill people with machines described as “pilots”. Not a chance.

#164 Shawn Allen on 09.12.18 at 10:48 am

Life is Best Ever?

#161 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 10:07 am responded to

#145 KLNR on 09.12.18 at 8:44 am who rightly said:

lol, life in the western world is better for most people right now than it ever has been in history.

Ubul asked:

By what measures?

******************************************
By SO many measures. And I think this applies to almost the entirety of humanity with just a few exceptions:

Real GDP per capita
Average age at death
Infant mortality
Ability to communicate
Quality of housing stock
Access to travel
Quality of vehicles
Access to food
Access to medicine

Just look at the goods pouring out of massive and numerous retail stores today. Unimaginable compared to my first memories which are from the 1960’s.

It just goes on and on. People will always complain that others have even more than they do. We don’t compare the overall ease of our lives today with that of our grandparents but rather with those we see today that have even more.

Warren Buffett says the luckiest crop of Americans babies in history is those born today. And next year’s crop will be even luckier. But what does he know? (What doesn’t he know?)

#165 Smoking Man on 09.12.18 at 10:52 am

They got away with it.

How…. ?

The newly schooled too preoccupied with gender rights and pronouns, they know nothing about science or math.

Deliberate dumbing down by globalist forces of evil..
Trained from JK-collage to worship their masters.

The kids live in the matrix.

#166 tccontrarian on 09.12.18 at 11:17 am

DELETED

#167 45north on 09.12.18 at 11:22 am

In a world of contrasts, remember the eleventh of September. The consequences have only begun.

I remember I came into work and Derek said that two airplanes had crashed into buildings in New York City. I said that’s not possible but it was. We watched the broadcasts and around lunch time, I decided to donate blood – just in case. In Ottawa, Canadian Blood Services was located on Plymouth so I biked over. There was a line-up and eventually I did give blood but New York City didn’t need it.

#168 Peak on 09.12.18 at 11:29 am

There is one city in Canada where the RE prices never recovered from the great financial crisis.

Guess whcih city had peak RE way back in 2007?

Answer here:
https://housepriceindex.ca/2018/09/august2018/

#169 Ace Goodheart on 09.12.18 at 11:34 am

If you are ever in New York, you should visit the memorial that has been built underground at the former site of one of the WTC towers.

To say that this memorial is difficult to walk through is really an understatement. I see people coming on here and giving the usual comments like how the investment bankers got to feel “real pain” and other such stupidity, coming from people who I guess can’t even imagine the horror of what happened that day.

Going from one end of that memorial to the other was one of the most horrifying and difficult walks of my life. You can feel the ghosts of the people who perished there. It is a raw wound. It affects a person profoundly. It is an experience I will never forget.

#170 Disappointed Observer on 09.12.18 at 11:36 am

Censorship will change nothing. To confront and deal with hate, we must first understand it. Many comments on this thread have troubled me deeply. But retreat or coverup is no way to remedy prejudice and ignorance. – Garth”

Well done Garth. Probably the most impactful post I’ve had the pleasure of reading since this blog’s inception.

Thank you

#171 T on 09.12.18 at 11:41 am

The conspiracy comments are too much. If these comments are legit, and some of you actually believe it, I don’t know what to say other than you aren’t living in reality.

It’s shocking how ignorant some people are. I point blame towards YouTube, it’s been a platform for sharing ignorance and hatred since it’s inception.

#172 Eks dee Siple on 09.12.18 at 12:17 pm

Pearl Harbour, Gulf of Tonkin, Reichstag Fire. List goes on. You can stay ignorant if you want, it’s entirely up to you. Peace.

#173 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 12:17 pm

#156 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 9:34 am

#134 majik on 09.12.18 at 2:01 am
17 years and nobody even remotely connected with the event has been tried or convicted. Obstructions of justice by the US goverment itself at every step of the way. Disgusting
——-

Ah… the guy who planned the whole thing received a 5.56mm cerebral lead injection courtesy of a Heckler & Koch HK416.

That’s good enough for me.

Effective but a tribal solution for a problem, that may be good enough for you, as it was good enough for president Obama, the international political establishment and the media.

But it is quite an erosion from the Western idea and standards of serving justice for criminals by putting them on trial.

Protecting these standards are the usual reasons to justify wars that kill soldiers on both side of the frontlines, insane number of innocent children, women, men, create millions of refugees and public spending in the tune of trillions.

Heckler & Koch HK416 kills not only the guilty, but also the witness and the possibility of finding out about potential other criminals, involved in the same crime.
Maybe even the truth.

#174 Biddy on 09.12.18 at 1:01 pm

DELETED

#175 SWL on 09.12.18 at 1:11 pm

#158 SWL

DELETED.

No more 911 conspiracy theory. We’re done with you. – Garth

———————

Ouch, first deleted ever. Your blog your rules, I respect that. I do feel like this comments section has drifted towards an echo chamber of group think

#176 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 1:18 pm

#172 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 12:17 pm

Effective but a tribal solution for a problem, that may be good enough for you, as it was good enough for president Obama, the international political establishment and the media
——

It was good enough for everyone.

You must have a different copy of Western Values than I have.

#177 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 1:24 pm

#153 Evangeline on 09.12.18 at 9:21 am
#138 Glengarry Girl on 09.12.18 at 6:49 am
“This post really exposed some Ugly minds, some of these comments are cringe worthy. This is becoming a safe place for those intolerant Haters, just sayin”

What is your definition of an “Ugly mind”?

Some people believe that anyone who supports Trump has an ugly mind — racist, anti-immigrant, etc.

There are also people who do not believe that the constant drumbeat of hatred against Trump is not ugly and that things like a media person holding up a fake beheaded head of Trump is not an ugly mind.

———

Excellent point.

#178 Shawn Allen on 09.12.18 at 1:34 pm

Dollar Cost Averaging?

Well if that was a good idea when wanting to get a pot of money (such as from the sale of a house) into the market then equally anyone with an existing pot of invested money where income tax is not a concern (RRSP, TFSA) should take it out and then dollar cost average it back into the market. Silly.

Markets tend to rise over time so on average investing the pot of money immediately will work out best as opposed to DCA.

Meanwhile though everyone who saves and invests regularly over the months and years is automatically doing Dollar Cost Averaging.

#179 Shawn Allen on 09.12.18 at 1:40 pm

Where’s The Money Quiddo asked:

How did this guy from New York know to phone me and just when the plane was going to hit.

****************************************
Weird but REALLY, a guy had advance knowledge and with that info, rather than short the market he cold called a random stranger in Canada?

Do you think maybe you were watching a replay of the first plane? Sounds like a guy in a call center, the plane struck and the boss said – keep calling.

#180 Former Navy Gunner on 09.12.18 at 1:41 pm

I remember that day like it was yesterday.

I was still in the Navy at that time, and my wife and I were having coffee, watching the news on TV when the 2nd plane hit. I soon rejoined my ship, HMCS Vancouver, where we adopted Force Protection posture to defend against any potential attack, and began preparing for a potential military response.

Over the course of the next 6 weeks we prepared for a long deployment. Unsure when we’d be back alongside Esquimalt, we were eventually away for 7 months, during which we broke a Canadian record for the most consecutive days at sea without entering harbour (79 days).

In all, throughout Operations Apollo and Altair, the Canadian Armed Forces deployed countless brave men and women to defend this attack on our closest ally and neighbour. We even lost 159 of our brothers and sisters in combat, compounding this immense tragedy.

All this to express my dismay and repugnance at President Bonespurs as he imposes economic tariffs on the grounds that Canada presents a security threat to the USA. It is beyond me how he and his cabinet can be so ungrateful.

#181 KLNR on 09.12.18 at 1:49 pm

@#163 Shawn Allen on 09.12.18 at 10:48 am
Life is Best Ever?

#161 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 10:07 am responded to

#145 KLNR on 09.12.18 at 8:44 am who rightly said:

lol, life in the western world is better for most people right now than it ever has been in history.

Ubul asked:

By what measures?

******************************************
By SO many measures. And I think this applies to almost the entirety of humanity with just a few exceptions:

Real GDP per capita
Average age at death
Infant mortality
Ability to communicate
Quality of housing stock
Access to travel
Quality of vehicles
Access to food
Access to medicine

Just look at the goods pouring out of massive and numerous retail stores today. Unimaginable compared to my first memories which are from the 1960’s.

It just goes on and on. People will always complain that others have even more than they do. We don’t compare the overall ease of our lives today with that of our grandparents but rather with those we see today that have even more.

Warren Buffett says the luckiest crop of Americans babies in history is those born today. And next year’s crop will be even luckier. But what does he know? (What doesn’t he know?)

_________
thx Shawn.
I didn’t feel like replying to Ubul cause you know,
doomers gonna doom anyhow.

#182 Biddy on 09.12.18 at 2:03 pm

Deleted. Ouch.

Truth hurts, censorship more so.

Ignorance huts. We’ve had enough of it on this thread. – Garth

#183 tccontrarian on 09.12.18 at 2:55 pm

Censorship will change nothing. To confront and deal with hate, we must first understand it. Many comments on this thread have troubled me deeply. But retreat or coverup is no way to remedy prejudice and ignorance. – Garth”

“Many comments on this thread have troubled me deeply.”

Well, who said that truth is supposed to be ‘comfortable’???
When I found out about Building 7 in 2009 – I was also “troubled deeply”, to put it mildly! Why had I never seen this before? How could it be?? Those are questions that I NEEDED answered. I understood that there was a lot more to the story presented via MSM. Didn’t take a genius to figure that.

So, yeah, you can just delete posts that trouble you Garth, – it’s your blog – I understand that. But to delete posts that are FACTUAL just because they’re making you (or others) uncomfortable, well, it actually CONTRADICTS what you do here. YOU are making RE agents uncomfortable too, by presenting FACTS which undermine their agenda to keep the people in the dark.

Just apply the same principle – if you indeed value truth above all. If not, just delete this before it appears on the public domain and I’ll know you better.

TCC

Nine Eleven deniers, Pearl Harbour deniers, Holocaust deniers, Sandy Hook deniers – you can leave now. – Garth

#184 Uncle Sam on 09.12.18 at 2:56 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/10/the-us-has-spent-1point5-trillion-on-war-since-september-11-attacks.html

#185 Overheardyou on 09.12.18 at 2:57 pm

I remember I was in school and just finished singing OCanada. The teacher wheeled in a TV and turned on the news, a day never to be forgotten

#186 NoName on 09.12.18 at 3:43 pm

@ T

It wasnt a YouTube it was opera and tv, YouTube is just linear progression of tv shows praying on ignorant and uneducated. Ok maybe am radio with art bell with his show predates opera but audience was limited.

https://slate.com/health-and-science/2018/01/oprah-winfrey-helped-create-our-irrational-pseudoscientific-american-fantasyland.html

#187 tccontrarian on 09.12.18 at 3:59 pm

BANNED

#188 Jeff on 09.12.18 at 4:02 pm

DELETED

#189 Adam Peterson on 09.12.18 at 4:20 pm

Beautifully written.

#190 Stan Brooks on 09.12.18 at 4:20 pm

I personally find 9/11 deniers much less dangerous to the society than real estate bubble deniers in Canada.

Go out in GTA to a crowded place and scream:
We/this city have the biggest real estate bubble in the world.

You won’t make it alive, the real estate mob and credit junkies will eat you alive. And 95 % of the populace will laugh at you. It is that bad.

#191 Chimingin on 09.12.18 at 4:26 pm

On that day, I was working in my job as emergency management coordinator in a municipality north of TO. I remember getting a call from EMO, telling us to stand by to set up evacuation centres, as we were going to be potentially accepting hundreds of stranded passengers from Pearson. That did not happen in the end, but it was a sobering reminder that events far from home often have a local impact.

#192 Stan Brooks on 09.12.18 at 4:30 pm


#180 KLNR on 09.12.18 at 1:49 pm
@#163 Shawn Allen on 09.12.18 at 10:48 am
Life is Best Ever?

#161 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 10:07 am responded to

#145 KLNR on 09.12.18 at 8:44 am who rightly said:

lol, life in the western world is better for most people right now than it ever has been in history.

Ubul asked:

By what measures?

******************************************
By SO many measures. And I think this applies to almost the entirety of humanity with just a few exceptions:

Real GDP per capita
Average age at death
Infant mortality
Ability to communicate
Quality of housing stock
Access to travel
Quality of vehicles
Access to food
Access to medicine

Agree on most except:
– Quality of housing stock
There is no shittier buildings ever build in regards to new glass condos and new cornflakes homes exteriors.

– Access to food. This has to be restated as access to substitute of food.

The rest we will enjoy but not for long.

#193 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 4:38 pm

#175 IHCTD9 on 09.12.18 at 1:18 pm

#172 Ubul on 09.12.18 at 12:17 pm

Effective but a tribal solution for a problem, that may be good enough for you, as it was good enough for president Obama, the international political establishment and the media
——

It was good enough for everyone.

You must have a different copy of Western Values than I have.

Capturing him first would have been preferred. Executing him on the spot left wide open all the theories about 9/11. Ever since distrust in Western governments has been increasing to a level that was not characteristic before. Double-check your copy.

#194 Gravy Train on 09.12.18 at 6:24 pm

#164 Smoking Man on 09.12.18 at 10:52 am
“Deliberate dumbing down by globalist forces of evil..” I thought your dumbing down was just a result of your drinking cases and cases of Jack Daniel’s! :)

#195 Classical Liberal Millennial on 09.12.18 at 9:18 pm

Doug T wrote:
Within 15 minutes of 911 I suspected the truth that it was a false flag op and in the fullness of time I was proven correct. Then again the truth is not popular or PC.
– – –
Man 9/11 really brings out the stupids, doesn’t it.

#196 Oft deleted much maligned stock picker on 09.13.18 at 3:55 am

DELETED

#197 barb on 09.14.18 at 2:52 pm

“Simple tariffs turn into walls, and refugees – fleeing violence, poverty or climate change – are forced into militancy. People, after all, will do anything when cornered with their families.”

Yes, and then maybe they will make the necessary changes in their own countries. That is what they have to do after all. Fix their own mess. Over history, every country has had to fight for it’s own survival. Look what the Iranians are doing to overthrow the radical religious leaders. If you truly want freedom, you will fight for it!