Realtors behaving badly

You’d think he would know better.

After all, Bruce Chin has an MBA. That takes some work, and involves the study of business ethics. He worked (briefly) as a stock/portfolio analyst in the financial industry which is massively regulated. One lesson everybody learns by rote: ‘past performance is no guarantee of future returns.’

Any advisor will attest. A Bay Street or Main Street financial guy who tells a client a future capital gains are a sure thing or makes a statement like, “I believe you can double your money”, will have a regulator up his wazoo. All investing has risk. Anyone promoting an asset must spell out both benefits and potential downsides. It’s what concepts like standard deviation are all about. This is the religion of The Street.

But Bruce left the church. In 2008 he became a licensed real estate agent. “Bruce has since developed a passion for the industry,” his self-penned bio reads, “and earnestly believes that with the right information, investing in real estate can be a solid investment strategy long term.”

In yet another indictment of an industry which sells emotion, greed and avarice, plus taking full advantage of uninformed, unsophisticated investors, Mr. Chin this last week sent out an email blast for a condo development about to be built in a dead bread factory on a dodgy street.

“As my clients know,” he writes, “I have been selling and advocating for pre-con in Leslieville hard since 2014 and I’ve personally bought into pre-construction condos at Riverside Square and 875 Queen Street. Both buildings are being built now with individual units up $200,000+ from purchase.

“I expect the same from this project,” he states flatly, “as it exhibits all the attributes of a good project…. I believe you can double your money with the capital appreciation when it is built.”

By the way, this ‘hard loft condo’ conversion is being marketed now, yet occupancy won’t happen until at least 2023, making it a serious futures play. A 600-square foot one bedder starts at $576,000 and an 800-foot unit you can actually rotate a feline in costs $702,000. Add $50,000 for parking and $5,000 for a unit, plus an average of $500 for condo fees (which normally rise substantially years after conversion).

Is this a good deal? Will investors double their money in five years, as bullish Bruce asserts?

Beats me. Beats you. Beats Bruce. But we do know if he were still a stockbroker plucking clients by promising 200% gains – selling them a thousand dollars’ worth of Tesla (not a $700,000 unbuilt box) – he’d be toast. No wonder he prefers real estate.

$     $     $

When a woman named Marlene sold her Toronto-area home for $900,000 the deal fell apart after the buyer said he lacked the money to close. So she gave him a two-month extension. To no avail. No closing occurred, the buyer lost the deposit, she listed again in a falling market and eventually found a buyer for $699,800. So, yes, this is another example of real estate’s steady melt within Canada’s biggest market.

But the story made the media for another reason. Both sides of the original deal were handled by a HomeLife franchise office, and even though it never closed, the brokerage billed her for commission of $45,765. She balked and the invoiced amount was reduced to $25,000, so the realtor could sue her in Small Claims Court.

How could this be? Commission for a sale that did not occur on funds which never changed hands?

Simple. By agreeing to an extension Marlene altered the terms of the original contract, opening herself up to action because her listing agreement stated she was liable to pay commission, “upon acceptance of a satisfactory offer, even if the deal doesn’t close.” The realtor in question claims that Marlene’s action in altering the contractual agreement (by allowing an extension) prevented what might have been a satisfactory offer from being consummated. So, bingo, she pays.

There are lessons here, beyond not dealing with a scuzzy brokerage: (a) it’s a bad idea of work with a realtor who’s double-ending the transaction, as Marlene was. The conflict of interest is extreme. Always get your own guy to represent you. (b) Read the damn agreement. If you’re not competent to do so, have your lawyer eye it. If you dislike anything in the listing document, change it and initial.

Finally, this brings us to BRAs. Never sign a blank Buyer Representation Agreement, no matter what your agent says. Let’s summarize again the three ways that BRAs can bite you (I need to repeat this here every year or two…)

First, you (the buyer) could be liable for the entire commission on the purchase of a home if the vendor decides not to pay, if there is a dispute over the amount, or full payment is not made at the time of closing for whatever reason.

Here’s what the BRA says: “The buyer agrees to pay directly to the Brokerage any deficiency between this amount and the amount, if any, to be paid to the Brokerage by a listing brokerage or by the seller. The buyer understands that if the Brokerage is not to be paid any commission by a listing brokerage or by the seller, the Buyer will pay the Brokerage the full amount of commission indicated.”

Second, you (the buyer) could be nailed for commission if you end up buying (or even renting) any property whatsoever if you don’t do it through the guy who made you sign the BRA. Even if you do it months after the agreement expires. Even if another agent shows you that property.

Here’s what the BRA says: “The buyer agrees to pay the Brokerage such commission if the buyer enters into an agreement within 90 days after the expiration of this agreement (Holdover Period) to purchase or lease any property shown or introduced to the Buyer from any source whatsoever during the term of this Agreement, provided, however, that if the Buyer enters into a new buyer representation agreement with another registered real estate brokerage after the expiration of this Agreement, the Buyer’s liability to pay commission to the Brokerage shall be reduced by the amount paid to the other brokerage under the new agreement.”

Third, if you (the buyer) enter into an agreement to buy a house, then get cold feet and back out, or decide you can’t actually afford it, or face certain death from your spouse if you complete the deal, you’re screwed. Now your agent can sue you (along with the seller) since the agreement makes you liable to pay the commission as if the closing had taken place.

Here’s what the BRA says: “The Buyer agrees to pay such commission as described above even if a transaction contemplated by an agreement to purchase or lease agreed to or accepted by the Buyer or anyone on the Buyer’s behalf is not completed, if such non-completion is owing or attributable to the Buyers default or neglect.”

Yes, you should have a trusted agent assisting you in any purchase. But if you sign a BRA, you are the greater fool.

139 comments ↓

#1 HP Victoria on 09.09.18 at 3:47 pm

Garth, thanks for highlighting the lack of regulation in the real estate industry and this realtor in particular. It’s appalling what the real estate industry can get away with. Don’t they at least have their own code of ethics, like most other professional organizations?

#2 TT on 09.09.18 at 3:49 pm

Everybody i know thinks its crazy to think the housing market will crash.

#3 Oakville Stinks on 09.09.18 at 3:54 pm

I had realtors trying to pull that C*AP on me and I didn’t do it using the argument that “I don’t understand what i’m signing and I need a lawyer to explain”

Realtor tried to get me to sign it under duress. Contract Law says a contract can be voided if individual is signing under duress.

#4 Andrewski on 09.09.18 at 3:58 pm

Straight from Investopedia.com:

What is ‘Financial Literacy ‘
Financial literacy is the education and understanding of various financial areas including topics related to managing personal finance, money and investing. This topic focuses on the ability to manage personal finance matters in an efficient manner, and it includes the knowledge of making appropriate decisions about personal finance such as investing, insurance, real estate, paying for college, budgeting, retirement and tax planning.

#5 The Real Mark on 09.09.18 at 4:05 pm

“Both buildings are being built now with individual units up $200,000+ from purchase.”

Claiming that individual identical units are up when its well known that individual identical units have stagnated in the GTA should be a big, big red flag.

Not to say that its impossible (they may have been mispriced at the outset), but its highly implausible. Which certainly speaks very negatively for this individual’s credibility.

#6 Dean on 09.09.18 at 4:08 pm

How long is a BRA valid typically valid for?

A term is specified on it. If you must sign, make it for a day or three. – Garth

#7 young & foolish on 09.09.18 at 4:09 pm

” … I believe you can double your money with the capital appreciation when it is built.” — Bruce

Well ok, maybe not double, but consider the probabilities. First, RE tends to track inflation (likely rising), second, housing in downtown gentrifying areas where people want to live close to amenities, transportation, and jobs is not likely to become undesirable (barring another SARS outbreak), and third, RE is often a long term investment for many (secure the property with some money down, wait until the mortgage is paid off … long term growth).

Or you can buy equity ETFs holding companies with PE ratios through the roof.

Yes, any investing involves risk …

Miss the point much? – Garth

#8 OttawaMike on 09.09.18 at 4:15 pm

It is widely known and accepted in the RE industry that RECO fines are just a cost of business.

Here is the story link
https://globalnews.ca/news/4431658/real-estate-broker-demands-commission-gta/

#9 TurnerNation on 09.09.18 at 4:18 pm

MLS offers a Walk Score.

But if you are buying or renting in Toronto you need the Shooting Score from here
https://www.cp24.com/news/shooting-homicide-year-to-date

Here Civilization is going backwards.

If you lift a finger in defense of yourself, your family and everything you’ve worked for the judge will throw the book at you. “We cannot allow this villigente justice in a civilized society” and you’ll lose your job, house.

Yet most of the offenders lately are already out on probation for multuple serious crimes. They get the white glove treatment each time with charges dropped, reduced, time served cop outs. They are career criminals working the system. Us tax farm slaves don’t stand a change in this slaughter – as animals prey on us

How about being allowed to carry protection? The Left will gasp, no we’ll become like USA how d-d-dangerous. But wait we are. Toronto per capita has more murders than Chicago this year?

Facts: justice is a business. Those liberal elite un-elected judges are milking it for their Rosedale mansions. Toronto cops salaries are top line item of property taxes. Business is good.

#10 OttawaMike on 09.09.18 at 4:25 pm

Here is a video of Super Realtor:

https://youtu.be/68LEN3W6F8E

#11 majik on 09.09.18 at 4:32 pm

Rotate a feline, haha good one Garth!

#12 Keith in Rio on 09.09.18 at 4:47 pm

When I sold my father’s house last year I had that line regarding when commission is payable, as well as several others, struck from the listing agreement. My lawyer was amazed I did that, and even moreso, that the realtor signed off on it.

Broker of record and agent bitched like crazy and I told them to pound sand, it was either my way, or the highway and that they could partake of sex and travel if they wished………and they folded.

Listing agreements are fraught with landmines and hand grenades deliberately put in there by the lawyers these scumbags hire. The realtor is the subject case here is legally permitted to sue here, but morally, it just points out what kind of pukes these folks are. I’ve been in sales for over 2 decades and we NEVER, EVER, got paid unless the deal closed and all the hair was off the deal afterwards and all parties were happy.

The overwhelming vast majority of realtors are frauds, cheats, thieves, and liars.

#13 Lost...but not leased on 09.09.18 at 4:52 pm

What’s a “wazoo” ?

(oh..seriously???.
…..that’s ” owe- mo’ “phobic)

#14 dakkie on 09.09.18 at 5:03 pm

Diminishing Marginal Utility

http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/diminishing-marginal-utility/

#15 penguin on 09.09.18 at 5:06 pm

I have been dealing with both HomeLife and RE/Max lately. Both are saying signing a BRA is mandatory. Can you be more specific on what exceptions there are to signing a BRA? A day or three sounds good as suggested above, but on what conditions? Thanks Garth, love your blog since 2005, and obviously the dog pictures.

It is not mandatory. Period. You are under no legal requirement to sign. If you break down, than specify the BRA only for the specific address you are offering on, and only for the length of time the offer is in play – a day or three. – Garth

#16 Gill on 09.09.18 at 5:13 pm

Whenever I say the housing market will correct and drop, everyone looks at me like I’m completely nuts. They tell me prices will only go up… forever.

Now I’m not financial expert. Not at all. But, neither are they.

Garth, do you ever feel like chicken little? “The sky is falling, the sky is falling?” and nobody is listening? Chicken little was wrong … but history would indicate you are not.

How do you stand it? LOL!!

#17 Vanrentor on 09.09.18 at 5:14 pm

I had a realtor “friend” sign me up as an “unlicensed assistant” It is simple and costs very little and I now have full access to the MLS system. I highly recommend it. I plan to buy in the next year and I will be fully informed.

#18 10 Million is nothing on 09.09.18 at 5:29 pm

To those who slammed my post yesterday (#45), you completely misunderstood my point.

All I was saying is that if people are willing to keep investing in crowded and polluted Beijing, then relatively clean and unpopulated Toronto is still a bargain but maybe not for you. Toronto is still a bargain for international buyers. Stable government, stable culture, clean air and water, trustworthy food supply system, quality educational system. You can disagree but international investors will keep pouring money into Canadian real estate even if the economy goes into recession because it doesn’t impact them. Most are doing buy and hold. They have no plans to sell for decades. If you follow international home sales you will see that in places like Beijing the actually turnover of properties is much much lower than Toronto. They have a buy and hold mentality and not scared or concerned with even a 30% drop in Toronto prices. Slam this post if you want but it is true.

#19 Nonplused on 09.09.18 at 5:33 pm

#13 Lost…but not leased

A wazoo is a musical instrument that nobody likes to hear played except for a few childish people who think it’s rather funny, especially in cars or elevators.

#20 Voted on the Island on 09.09.18 at 5:34 pm

We’re thinking of buying a place in the next year or so. But the question we have yet to answer is: “How much money are we willing to lose?”. We figure $50k loss is no big deal, but $250K is a non-starter.

With our previous homes, there was always an element of “Well…. we should be able to get out with at least what we paid for it”.

This time it’s different. What to do? How much of your net worth would you be willing to lose to own your own home? Blog Dogs?

It depends over how many years a capital loss is ‘amortized,’ and don’t forget to factor in imputed rent. It’ll make you feel better.- Garth

#21 bb on 09.09.18 at 5:45 pm

The news said that Marlene took the 40K deposit money when the deal fell.

Could the realtor be after that money?

#22 Gravy Train on 09.09.18 at 5:56 pm

#19 Nonplused on 09.09.18 at 5:33 pm
“A wazoo is a musical instrument that nobody likes to hear played except for a few childish people who think it’s rather funny, especially in cars or elevators.”

No, you’re thinking of a kazoo. A wazoo is your anus. ‘Up the wazoo’ means ‘in excess.’ Nonplused, you really don’t know anything, do you? :)

#23 Jungle on 09.09.18 at 5:58 pm

She sold Nonmarket in April 2017.. hundreds or even thousands of deals stop closing that time as buyers got spooked from unfair housing plan. Many walked away as they were overpaying.

That was not true peek since hundreds, if not thousands of deals didn’t close. And artificial price was set by TREB based on unclosed sales, because they don’t go back to edit failed deals.

The slow melt barely exist for the GTA>

Better description: underwhelming performance but still expensive AF

PS: unless you were an overnight flipper and got caught when the party stopped, most houses STILL made money by holding just 1-2 years before that. Some even A LOT of money.

So long as this lady owned in Newmarket for two years before it’s likely she didn’t lose and lived there for free.

#24 TurnerNation on 09.09.18 at 6:02 pm

Those hard lofters will be spending $1000 per squared foot for living a couple of blocks to a safe injection site (at Carlaw) and a few blocks more to a new homeless shelter (Leslie st).
Did realtor mention it?

The only thing to double in five years time is crime there. Bank on it. The booze and drugs dealers run this town.

#25 LP on 09.09.18 at 6:02 pm

#19 Nonplused on 09.09.18 at 5:33 pm

Sorry Nonplused. That’s a kazoo you’re thinking of.

#26 Lost...but not leased on 09.09.18 at 6:05 pm

Re: RE Commissions and liability of seller…

An “honest” realtor explained to me the following:

When you sign an RE listing agreement for $ X …..and you receive an offer for $ X….and you refuse….you are legally liable to pay the realtor their commission regardless of whether a sale occurs or not.

Many realtors will waive this (via “goodwill” etc.)….but in a SHTF- collapsing -RE market…it is beyond obvious that desperate realtors may demand commission( and will win in court if push comes to shove.)

Be wary and be wi$e….

#27 Wrk.dover on 09.09.18 at 6:06 pm

#19 Nonplused on 09.09.18 at 5:33 pm
#13 Lost…but not leased

A wazoo is a musical instrument that nobody likes to hear played except for a few childish people who think it’s rather funny, especially in cars or elevators.

———————————-

No, that is a kazoo. A wazoo is akin to a back door, in polite terms.

#28 Sam the Sham on 09.09.18 at 6:11 pm

#9 TurnerNation on 09.09.18 at 4:18 pm

“How about being allowed to carry protection?”
—————————————

Mayor Tory says no one needs a handgun in Toronto. Is he serious? If you are a gang member with a drug territory to protect, you certainly need a hand gun, preferably with a large caliber!!

#29 Ken M. on 09.09.18 at 6:14 pm

#58 Smoking Man on 09.04.18 at 9:58 am
Garth’s advice for not owning individual stocks has some merit.

You have no way of knowing when a CEO loses his mind.

Nike down 3%. Just short it….
———————————–

Yup and you bought bitcoin at the top and picked vegas to win the cup last year too…

http://time.com/5390884/nike-sales-go-up-kaepernick-ad/

#30 The Wisdom of Disdain on 09.09.18 at 6:18 pm

$560,000 for 600 sqft plus condo fees? Maybe the millennials are playing it smart squatting in mom’s basement. It’s probably bigger.

The world we live in is and has been changing so fast over the last 150 years that it is seldom the case that solid advice your parents used will work for you. The playing field changes dramatically every 20-30 years.

Retirement

For example, my father’s generation believed there was nothing better than a good company pension plan and 25+ years of service to the same company. They all got laid off by 50.

My generation was told that RRSP’s were the key to successful retirement. Most of us don’t have anything of substance saved.

The millennials seem to be putting their retirement and career faith in the government. They also will be disappointed.

What every generation seems to have to relearn is that for most people, freedom 55 is a myth. Neither the corporation, your savings, or the government are going to provide it.

Housing

My father’s generation bought a house they could afford, and paid it off. If they bought a bigger house it was only when fortune allowed.

My generation was told to buy “as much house as you can afford, they only go up!” That left us without enough cash to fund our RRSP’s responsibly.

The millennials have looked at the cost of housing compared to their meager wages and concluded that this is no country for young men (or women).

Marriage

Among my parents generation divorce was rare.

Among my generation divorce was common.

Among the millennials it will be both marriage and divorce that are rare.

Authority

My father’s generation had respect for authority.

My generation has a disdain for authority.

The millennials do not recognize authority.

Responsibility

My father’s generation recognized freedom and responsibility as two sides of the same coin.

My generation sees freedom and responsibility as two different coins that can be selected independently.

The millennials do not acknowledge one can take responsibility. (Mostly because they have had a hard time being able to affect success based on their own actions.)

Education

My father’s generation viewed education as a potential to enhance your earning potential, and you paid as you went.

My generation viewed education as a way to enhance your intellect, and you paid for it later.

The millennials view education as a means to enhance your life experience, and you probably can’t ever pay for it. (But you go anyway.)

+++++++++++++

This all sounds fairly critical of the millennials, but I don’t mean it that way. The world has changed. They must react. The high cost of housing compared to the median income is just one example of things they have to account for that we did not. It is just one of the reasons it seems to me they eschew home ownership, marriage, children, all the things expected of the previous generations and instead opt for life experiences, mobility, kayaks, fancy mountain bikes, and Uber. The deck really is stacked against them. The old rules don’t work.

Sure, you still see old behaviors in individuals, that’s what you get when you try and lump a whole generation into one generalization, but the trend will be as it has been for some time that the age of “adulthood” will continue to move further and further out. The housing correction, if and when it ever comes, may be driven as much by a buying strike from the millennials as it is from rising interest rates. Most of them simply can’t afford both high house prices and higher interest rates.

What will “Generation Z” bring? Hard to say but I see a continuation of the trend. Increasingly a reluctance to “own” or “commit” to anything seems the likely outcome. Properties will be rented and shared, cars will be hired, relationships will be ad-hoc, children will be delayed, and the amount of “stuff” they own will go way down. Besides a phone and internet connection (which they rent), a computer or game counsel, and some clothes they may not own anything. Most of them won’t even get cable since their game counsel does YouTube and Netflix already. I have a Generation Z child and he has access to both cable and internet. He seldom watches cable. Maybe during the world cup.

#31 JSS on 09.09.18 at 6:20 pm

From $900K to $699K…a nearly 29% drop in house value.
Wow.

#32 Wrk.dover on 09.09.18 at 6:21 pm

I’m guessing the word wazoo may have come from Frank Zappa.

#33 theoryAndPractice on 09.09.18 at 6:24 pm

#6 Dean on 09.09.18 at 4:08 pm

How long is a BRA valid typically valid for?

A term is specified on it. If you must sign, make it for a day or three. – Garth
—————————–
Plus : Specifically for the area/region this agreement is valid for, put single address if you really have to sign it.

The best is don’t sign it. Also beware, there are alternate numbered forms but all ends up in same result for the person who signs it.

A real estate lawyer should be the only one dealing from start to end. and Advertising of a sale in MLS should be open to public with a fee, while rep with an agent should only be optional, else this is plain monopoly.

#34 Jungle on 09.09.18 at 6:28 pm

After the unfair housing plan, condos and semis surged in price. They never corrected.. while million dollar houses took a breather.

#35 Jungle on 09.09.18 at 6:33 pm

Some average detach were going up a 100k/ month during peek so if most April closings didn’t happen, 100K could be taken off peek price, since treb doesn’t revise failed closing.

#36 The Wisdom of Disdain on 09.09.18 at 6:34 pm

I forgot to mention that I see computers (grouping laptops (who buys a desktop anymore), cellphones, internet, game counsels, etc, they all work as multi functional platforms that can all essentially do the same thing with the exception that the cell phones are infinitely more portable) essentially accelerating the trend towards “less stuff”, and I can even see it in my Gen Z child.

For example, I bought him an electric race car set one Christmas. I had one when I was a kid and I thought it was cool. He did about 6 laps on it and went back to playing Mario Cart. I bought him a ton of Lego. He built a couple things and then went back to Minecraft. About the only toys he still plays with are Nerf guns when his friends come over but I imagine that’l go away too as soon as I let him start playing “Call Of Duty”. I bought him a guitar but he went back to playing Rock Band. The old toys just can’t compete with a single device hooked to the internet. It sure de-clutters the basement though. I imagine Generation Z’ds apartments will look much the same in the future. One TV with a Playstation 10 hooked up and nothing else besides a bed.

#37 Linda on 09.09.18 at 6:36 pm

Regarding the grim example of Marlene, who tried to get the original deal to close & is now being sued by the broker for the fees. Even if one overlooked the much lower price paid for her GTA property by buyer #2 as a sign that markets are not what they used to be, the lawsuit for brokerage fees should provide further proof. The brokerage knows Marlene has money because the property sold. They want – at this point, likely require – income. So it is worth it to them to sue & drag funds out of Marlene. The fact they are going for the cash even if she slags their business to everyone she knows speaks volumes.

#38 Bob Sharma on 09.09.18 at 6:36 pm

Who will pay Realtor for his hard worked, Selecting properties, booking showings, Taking buyers to show the properties, sometime realtor spends months to finalize the deal. And one day he finds that Buyer went directly with some other agent. Is this fair with Agent.

#39 OttawaMike on 09.09.18 at 6:37 pm

Surprised GF Blog has not written a post on CRA verifying incomes for CMHC mortgage applications starting this fall.

Or did I just miss that one?

—————————
With the new TREB sold info available online, I looked up my Westhill house in E10. Sold for $810k in a bidding war Jan 2017.
I sold it in 1992 to the seller for $190k.

In that time frame many parts of Ottawa have also risen 4 fold but the starting price was much lower.
Another curiousity is how close Ottawa and Toronto were in price during the 60s and 70s. Somewhere along the line in the 80s Toronto left us behind.

#40 Lost...but not leased on 09.09.18 at 6:40 pm

***Sigh****

…re FOMO meets “Bank of Mom and Dad”..

A nephew of ours was “House horny” ……so ended up buying an OLD SFH with 2 other parties in late 2017.

First warning sign was a leak was discovered within a few weeks ….so who to sue..inspector or……???

The deal may work out insofar as the mortgage payment revenue(via multiple owners on title) should be covered in short term…but what about underwater if one of the “partners” bails(reasons are infinite ie divorce, job loss, bankruptcy etc.)..and our nephews retired parents could be on the hook as co -signers for mortgage ?

PS: Any other similar tales at the periphery of the RE war zone ?

#41 yvr_lurker on 09.09.18 at 6:48 pm

Why on earth would ANYONE sign on for a BRA. In Vancouver, one could fill a football stadium full of real-estate agents. Don’t see them as special highly-skilled people, worthy of some BRA “signing bonus”, no matter how much BS and exclusiveness and expertise they claim to have. People use realty.com to find places they think are worthy of seeing, and the role of a realtor is important for negotiating and checking the paperwork at the last stage. It is not rocket science here, especially when the bar to become a licensed realtor is so low (just complete a two-month class).

#42 Tony on 09.09.18 at 7:08 pm

If Toronto is the biggest housing bubble in the world as most state today the odds of doubling your money are slim. Most people should look outside of Canada and think if Australian, New Zealand and American home prices fall odds are almost certain Canadian home prices will fall.

#43 S.Bby on 09.09.18 at 7:09 pm

Here’s a news link to that litigious realtor guy story:

https://globalnews.ca/video/4432395/sale-doesnt-close-realtor-demands-commission-anyway/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=MostPopularVideo&utm_campaign=2018

#44 SmarterSquirrel on 09.09.18 at 7:10 pm

I was interested in getting a preconstruction condo at that bread factory. Then I saw the prices. $1M for an 1100sqft place (if you include all fees and parking and locker) that won’t be built for 4 or 5 years and for a place where the builder reserves the right to make changes to the dimensions of the place you’re buying. Considering there are existing town homes and semi detached homes in the same neighbourhood with more square footage for under $1M, with a patch of grass and only one shared wall with a neighbour vs underneath/overhead/side/side neighbours in a condo, buying a precon bread condo seemed too risky to me, and not as good a deal.

#45 Simon on 09.09.18 at 7:10 pm

#38 Bob Sharma on 09.09.18 at 6:36 pm
Who will pay Realtor for his hard worked, Selecting properties, booking showings, Taking buyers to show the properties, sometime realtor spends months to finalize the deal. And one day he finds that Buyer went directly with some other agent. Is this fair with Agent.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
What hard work?!?! You realtors have never worked a day in your life.

How do you justify your commission?!?! As a listing agent you put a sign infront of the property and advertise the property on MLS and nothing else. As a buyers agent you hand over a piece of paper with the buyers name and a price and hand it over to your pathetic colleague, and the two of you mislead the buyer and seller with deceit, lies and more lies. 2.5% going both ways and 5% for what?!?!

Go get a real job and Stop the BS!

#46 Jim Brooks on 09.09.18 at 7:24 pm

#39 Ottawa Mike

“Another curiousity is how close Ottawa and Toronto were in price during the 60s and 70s. Somewhere along the line in the 80s Toronto left us behind.”

It isn’t just Ottawa Mike. In the 50s you could buy a home in little Italy in Toronto for $15k. That would have been the price for a similar home anywhere in Ontario. Today that $15k home is worth close to
$2 million….

#47 Mortgage Mountain on 09.09.18 at 7:25 pm

Second, you (the buyer) could be nailed for commission if you end up buying (or even renting) any property whatsoever if you don’t do it through the guy who made you sign the BRA. Even if you do it months after the agreement expires. Even if another agent shows you that property.

This analysis is murky. The clause cited doesn’t appear to apply to any property whatsoever. It looks like the buyer pays commission to the original “BRA” agent if the buyer agrees,

“to purchase or lease any property shown or introduced to the Buyer from any source whatsoever during the term of this Agreement”.

This is a crappy clause and fairly all-encompassing, but it doesn’t look like it would apply to homes listed for rent or sale after the original agreement period.

You obviously have not read the document. – Garth

#48 Okanagan Bag-holder Call on 09.09.18 at 7:27 pm

The market has peaked with prices in decline across all of BC.

Vancouver, Victoria and Kelowna debt sentenced bag-holders will need 40 years to recover financially from what is happening.

Realtors are playing dumb while fully setting up the most unsophisticated buyers who are currently walking into a trap.

Tons of extensions happening in the Okanagan due to financial difficulties in closing.

Now is not the time to be stretching yourself financially.

In fact, it would be a good idea to get out of all debt obligations by selling off, if you still can. RIP current buyers.

#49 young & foolish on 09.09.18 at 7:28 pm

OK, so I missed the point …. sorry

Now when can we expect sites where we can look up the history of RE sales, prices, DOM, etc. ????

#50 Bytor the Snow Dog on 09.09.18 at 7:29 pm

#15 penguin on 09.09.18 at 5:06 pm sez:

“I have been dealing with both HomeLife and RE/Max lately. Both are saying signing a BRA is mandatory. Can you be more specific on what exceptions there are to signing a BRA? A day or three sounds good as suggested above, but on what conditions? Thanks Garth, love your blog since 2005, and obviously the dog pictures.”
—————————————
Uhhhhh….is having a Realtor™ mandatory to buy or sell a house?

#51 1% Prepper on 09.09.18 at 7:34 pm

#34, 35, and 38

First Jungle now Bob Sharma. I think business is beyond comatose at the Remax Office

http://www.bobsharmarealtor.com

LOL

#52 NDP finish off BC renters on 09.09.18 at 7:37 pm

While Ontario has the rent cap increase for 2018 at 1.8%…

The NDP in BC for whatever reason decided to finish off renters by raising it to a 4.5% rent increase. Combine that with this year and you are looking at an allowable 9% increase by next year, including this years increase.

This will finish off the most vunerable people just hanging on with their current rents.

If the NDP back out of their spec tax next month, they are done in BC. 80% are currently for it.

Housing is the #1 issue driving BC politics at the moment.

Either David Eby needs to be promoted to premier to fix whatever wavering is going on inside the NDP at the moment or Andrew Weaver needs to take the reins.

BC residents are reclaiming BC.

#53 Sebee on 09.09.18 at 7:38 pm

Garth,

Again, agreed Bruce is worth highlighting. But is Bruce the problem or are those who enable that behaviour as practice or regulate the rules who should be shamed and highlighted?

How about naming those who permit those regulations and practices to be legal? Full name. Position. And how about some direction on how action can be taken to change it?

#54 BC Alberta Wall on 09.09.18 at 7:40 pm

We need to build a wall along the BC Alberta border and make Notley pay for it.

#55 Danny on 09.09.18 at 7:43 pm

The suits and the Audis, Mercedes and BMWs….are back.

The Tridel show room at Islington Ave and Bloor Street West that was used for the 3 high rise Towers now being built has become the showroom for their next high rise towers miles away at Burnhamthorpe Rd and the Westmall.

Of course invited friends of Tridel only…..coffee and cream served to the suits eager to buy multiple condos.

These speculators with their very expensive cars in the parking lot and tons of perfume abounding…had serious looks as they viewed the new high rise model. No clients nearby just the suits.

I walked in off the road in my blues jeans….and got some stares.

High prices for condos not keeping the suits away.

I didn’t notice any Fords or Chevrolets.

#56 Wrk.dover on 09.09.18 at 8:20 pm

#49 Danny on 09.09.18 at 7:43 pm
The suits and the Audis, Mercedes and BMWs….are back.

The Tridel show room at Islington Ave and Bloor Street West

—————————————-

So, the Evans Mercury dealership is gone from the NE corner there? ( I have been away for 1/2 a century..)

What about Thorncliff Ford on the SW corner of Islington and Dundas?

And please don’t say there are no more twenty cent draught beers/$4.00 for the tray of 20, at the NW corner of Bunhamthorpe and Dundas, in the Islington House!

That all would play into what Stan Brooks fears.

#57 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 09.09.18 at 8:59 pm

Tonight Blog just shows you how desperate and poor the SHYSTERS are becoming. We all know SHYSTERS are the SCUM of the WORLD. It should be no surprise a SHYSTER will do what a SHYSTER will do. SHYSTERS have another worry coming up now. CRA and CMHC are teaming up to prevent MORTGAGE FRAUD which we know is HUGE!!!!!!!!. Mortgage fraud in the GTA is at least 50% and could be as high as 90% mortgage. Prices in the GTA will bleed and bleed and bleed as well as sales. That means NO MONEY for SHYSTERS. :-)

HAPPY Happy Housing Crash Everyone!

#58 Dee on 09.09.18 at 9:03 pm

Ive come to grips with the fact that Canada is at the early stages of some sort of financial crisis & a 50% decline in r.e in the gta (maybe more) is entirely possible. All the stats – debt to gdp, debt to income, velocity of debt accumulated last 5 years, length of bull market, how oblivious the govnt seems to have been to the amount of fraud came from sub prime lenders, fire % of gdp, res construction % of gdp, heloc % of gdp, house price to rents, and the u.s firing on all cylinders are just some.

What is the downside to the cad$ with all this? Im ready to exit the currency completely. The potential loss from moving into alternate currencies is something i can sleep with

#59 45north on 09.09.18 at 9:13 pm

Danielle Park: International investment manager Bill Strong talks about Canada and Australia’s crazy credit fueled housing bubble and what he thinks may be the biggest short opportunity he’s seen in his career.

https://www.howestreet.com/2018/09/07/thoughts-on-a-secular-top-in-canadian-and-australian-debt-and-realty-prices/

He says that Toronto sales are down 40%.

I read the same thing on this blog. Since January, every month sales are down from last year.

He thinks there’s a downturn coming that’s more than just a cycle – it’s an historical turning point.

Marlene’s story shows the whole market is going down – deals don’t fall apart in a rising market.

So, yes, this is another example of real estate’s steady melt within Canada’s biggest market.

My test for a steady melt is Mortimer Avenue in Toronto. As long as there are ready buyers for houses on Mortimer, I’d agree it’s a steady melt.

#60 TurnerNation on 09.09.18 at 9:29 pm

#28 Sam the Sham a kazoo is all the protection I need. I keep in in the car and elevator. If anyone tries sneaking into my back door…bam.

#61 The Real Mark on 09.09.18 at 9:38 pm

My mom’s basement has doubled in value

That’s why I live here

#62 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 09.09.18 at 9:49 pm

#60 TurnerNation on 09.09.18 at 9:29 pm

#28 Sam the Sham a kazoo is all the protection I need. I keep in in the car and elevator. If anyone tries sneaking into my back door…bam.
………………………………………………

Or you could store the kazoo in your wazoo! Anyone tries to put the sneak on you and bam! There it is !

#63 Jorge on 09.09.18 at 9:51 pm

> Montreal prices are 50% or less of Toronto comparables, and it is the second-biggest Canadian market. Stop whining. – Garth

I appreciate the réponse Garth. In other words, don’t expect a break anytime soon and Montreal is an exception because it’s comparatively cheaper? Not whining (ok maybe just a little), I just want some clarity.

#64 Dave Ahem on 09.09.18 at 9:56 pm

Garth,

I can transfer about 11k from a dead DC pension to a new DB plan as a buyback or just move it to my LIRA which is under the same legislation from a previous employer. The DB plan is indexed, etc. I know I can make better returns on my own theoretically and have more flexibility in the LIRA but I like the guarantee. I’ve only been with the company 22 months and was in the DC plan 13 months when it got wound down and converted to a DB plan.

What would Garth do? (WWGD?)

GWD LIRA. – Garth

#65 WUL on 09.09.18 at 10:06 pm

Garth and Dawgs,

Please. In this age of sensitivity and the promotion of diversity, could we kindly be aware of regional and provincial differences. On “wazoo” could we substitute, for our prairie compatriots in Saskatchwan, “Waskesiu”?

I’ve looked for the Cree meaning. I cannot find it.

Expand your thinking and open your minds. Short of that, I’m phoning my friend Justin Trudeau. Geez.

Go Riders.

WUL

#66 Triplenet on 09.09.18 at 10:11 pm

#19 Nonplused

You mean like Eric Clapton?
A song about San Francisco.

#67 Lead Paint on 09.09.18 at 10:24 pm

Forget kazoos and wazoos… it’s all about The Great Gazoo. All hail his great alien green Gazooness.

#68 Re Jorge at 63 on 09.09.18 at 10:29 pm

Don’t ask him anything, he’s moron.

#69 Keith in Rio on 09.09.18 at 10:33 pm

#38 Bob Sharma

Who will pay Realtor for his hard worked, Selecting properties, booking showings, Taking buyers to show the properties, sometime realtor spends months to finalize the deal. And one day he finds that Buyer went directly with some other agent. Is this fair with Agent.

——————

That’s life in sales big boy. Been there, done that.

Coffee is for closers, now get way from the Keurig machine because you don’t deserve any.

#70 WUL on 09.09.18 at 10:51 pm

Starved for time here, I can only offer a short comment on BRAs and agents suing for the fees they feel they are owed. In the interest of fairness.

I have to get back to the rerun of the Leafs collapse from the 4-1 lead they held against the Bruins at the 11:00 minute mark of the troisieme period in the 7th game in May, 2013.

Canadian jurisprudence is littered with thousands of lawsuits commenced by agents, in all businesses, because of “virtuous” vendors and purchasers doing end runs on the agent to avoid payments of commissions.

Put it in a different setting. The agent spends 18 months working full time to sell an oil and gas play in the Zama area of Alberta only to learn down the road that the two oil and gas companies closed secretly to avoid the commission.

All agents, including financial advisors, should seek to protect themselves.

You all would sue, if it were yue on the receiving end.

WUL

#71 april on 09.09.18 at 11:02 pm

Welcome back #57

#72 Smoking Man on 09.09.18 at 11:16 pm

From the moment you enter this world. You get a serial number for tracking purposes.

From there to the road to death you are exposed to competing forces wanting ownership of your belief system.

The only way out is on a fast spaceship, or good Bourbon.

I have both…

#73 David Lau on 09.09.18 at 11:26 pm

Listing R2282575. Walked into a brand freehold strata new town home on 15th ave. in South Surrey. Seller dropped price to $699 000 from orig. price of $850 000 for an attempt to flip of a new town home. open house was as dead and realtor was desperately calling in the towel, frustratingly correcting the flyer with his pen from $850 000 to $699 000. Home must have sat for over 100 days, to drop the price by $151000!

#74 Jack on 09.09.18 at 11:57 pm

Hi Garth,

I moved to Calgary for about a year. We are thinking of buying a house in a year time and now keeping tracking of the RE sold listing statistics myself.

Through research, it seems it is mandatory to sign BRA with a realtor before using their service.

2. Are Buyer Representation Agreements mandatory?
Yes. As of July 1, 2014, the Real Estate Council of Alberta requires residential real estate professionals to use written service agreements when working with a client. Real estate professionals will ask buyer and seller clients to sign a written service agreement.

I guess if we do go ahead, we should sign the least harmful one, which is non-exclusive BRA? Any suggestions?

Thanks for your time.

Jack

#75 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 12:02 am

When experimenting with acid. Shit that happens in California. Read too many Hunter S Thomson books

Lost girls.

https://youtu.be/Nm-ISatLDG0

#76 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.10.18 at 12:16 am

And the rich are getting richer.
But they can’t get their picture.
On the cover of “The Rolling Stone”

#77 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 12:18 am

Hybrid children .

https://youtu.be/Nm-ISatLDG0

#78 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 12:28 am

Lads, never were a pink shirt on pink shirt day.

https://youtu.be/mTwjUE60HG4

#79 ulsterman on 09.10.18 at 12:41 am

It wouldn’t be so bad if the dishonest and unethical realtors simply made ordinary incomes, but the ludicrous fees they make for advertising and selling second hand homes is absurd.

This summer i was in the UK and saw an advert for a real estate agent charging (from) £695 to sell your home. Go look at a UK realtor’s site and see the incredibly professional presentation of information and then compare it to the almost comically amateur Realtor.ca listings in Vancouver, with the grainy, upside-down photographs and misspelled description that also lacks essential details.

It would be funny if they weren’t demanding tens of thousands in commission to “sell” your home.

#80 Bobby on 09.10.18 at 12:48 am

For #38, the only one who rally deserves the money is the agent representing the buyer if he facilitates a sale.
All the listing agent does is put up a sign and put the property on MLS.
We’re selling a property privately and have offered a buyers agent a substantive commission. Yes, lots of agents have showed up telling me all the great things they can do for us. But when I suggest do they have a buyer, it is always a blank stare.
Most realtors aren’t worth the commission.

#81 Nonplused on 09.10.18 at 1:11 am

#22 Gravy Train

Me thinks you missed the joke. What sorts of sounds don’t you want to hear in an elevator? Jezz I thought I was being fairly obvious. Extremely obvious actually.

#82 Nonplused on 09.10.18 at 1:15 am

#25 LP
#27 Wrk.dover

Jezz that’s all I’m going to respond to. You guys or gals must have grown up with a different crowd than I did. I know how you play a “wazoo”, ok?

#83 Newcomer on 09.10.18 at 1:19 am

#58 Dee on 09.09.18 at 9:03 pm

What is the downside to the cad$ with all this? Im ready to exit the currency completely. The potential loss from moving into alternate currencies is something i can sleep with
——–

I’d be careful. You never know what is going to happen to a currency. Look at what happened in the GFC, that was brutal for those of us that earn in USD and spend in CAD. If you move you money out of CAD at a fairly low point for CAD, historically, you could have to wait years, maybe even a decade, to buy it so cheap again. I have reason to hope CAD gets cheaper but I wouldn’t place speculative bets on it with money I plan to spend in Canada any time soon.

#84 Nonplused on 09.10.18 at 1:32 am

#67 Lead Paint

At least you seem to get it. A kazoo, a wazoo, and a Gazoo are all noisy wind blown instruments. It’s all a matter of where the wind comes out. I believe Hanna Barbra may have been making the same pun.

#85 Linda on 09.10.18 at 1:38 am

‘Bob Sharma’ – in the example given, the deal did not close. The original buyer walked away, losing their deposit. Yet the realtor used the extension granted by the seller as justification to go after the seller for fees for a deal that did not close. That isn’t ‘hard work’. That is greed/desparation.

When one reads these examples one can certainly see why some homeowners try to sell their property themselves. Some say that is greedy too. Fair enough, but seems like it could also be simple self preservation. Is there any reason why people can’t go directly to a lawyer who practices real estate law to ensure any paperwork is correct? Can’t imagine the fee for having the paperwork looked over would cost as much as the brokerage fees quoted in the post today.

#86 Dolce Vita on 09.10.18 at 2:13 am

Chart you found last year about Asset Bubbles and I thanked you for back then has been resurrected to explain 416 RE in the present.

An interesting narrative accompanies each phase. Worth a read.

We are in the Dead Cat bounce phase.

Next phase beginning this Qtr. I book market it and downloaded it (just in case it disappears in the future).

#87 diharv on 09.10.18 at 2:25 am

What’s the point of the holdover period of 90 days ? For all intents and purposes , it seems that the agreement is not actually ” expired ” after it expires . Is it just to hold the client hostage so they don’t seek out other representation for a few months ?

#88 Sydneysider on 09.10.18 at 2:49 am

#32 Wrk.dover

> I’m guessing the word wazoo may have come from Frank Zappa

The OED has its earliest reference to wazoo in 1961, from a Univ. Cal. publication.

Google NGrams has references in 1960, and also (oddly) in 1805 and 1820.

Anyway, Zappa’s debut album was 1966, so while he may have propagated the word, he likely did not coin it.

#89 jane24 on 09.10.18 at 3:32 am

I was a RE agent in TO for 15 years in the 80s and 90s. I was always amazed how many people just signed my paperwork rather than read it and stuck out anything they didn’t like. When I brought and sold house myself I did a lot of striking out and initialing. You need to personalise these contracts to suit your personal circs and if one agent doesn’t like it, plenty of other agents down the road.

Once the market fails to take off this Fall I expect a lot of lawsuits in both directions. If I had brought recently under duress from my agent and had lost a lot of money I would try to make them responsible. Plus some of these condo ads promising huge wealth must take financial responsibility for investor losses.

You have 3 weeks of silence from me. Off to admire my new bathroom in Italy, assuming the plumber actually did it.

#90 Midnights on 09.10.18 at 6:21 am

Is this the company you were talking about Garth?
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/industry-news/article-contractor-woes-stall-ontario-public-projects/

#91 money master on 09.10.18 at 6:58 am

It seems you can’t even fart without a lawyer these days.

#92 Happy Housing Stabilization Everyone! on 09.10.18 at 6:59 am

Dirty DOOMERS hoping wishing praying for crash. NO CRASH is coming you filthy DOOMERS. GTA is balanced. GTA will rise steadily moving forward, you lying DOOMERS are just jealous you didn;t buy anything or don’t have the money too. JEALOUS DOOMERS.

Happy Housing Stabilization Everyone!

#93 Tater on 09.10.18 at 7:41 am

#7 young & foolish on 09.09.18 at 4:09 pm
” … I believe you can double your money with the capital appreciation when it is built.” — Bruce

Well ok, maybe not double, but consider the probabilities. First, RE tends to track inflation (likely rising), second, housing in downtown gentrifying areas where people want to live close to amenities, transportation, and jobs is not likely to become undesirable (barring another SARS outbreak), and third, RE is often a long term investment for many (secure the property with some money down, wait until the mortgage is paid off … long term growth).

Or you can buy equity ETFs holding companies with PE ratios through the roof.

Yes, any investing involves risk …

Miss the point much? – Garth
—————————————————————-
RE does tend to track inflation, except for the past 8-10 years when in the GTA and GVA it vastly outpaced.

So, if you truly think over the long term, that house prices should track inflation, we have 3 possible scenarios. 1 – prices fall back to the inflation based trend. 2 – prices stay flat while inflation catches up. 3 – a combo of 1 and 2.

So under your own assertion, how is it possible to achieve a doubling?

#94 Tater on 09.10.18 at 7:47 am

#9 TurnerNation on 09.09.18 at 4:18 pm

How about being allowed to carry protection? The Left will gasp, no we’ll become like USA how d-d-dangerous. But wait we are. Toronto per capita has more murders than Chicago this year?
————————————————————
Wow. Are you actually this stupid? Or are you just so committed to your cause that you are happy to spread easily debunked lies?

Chicago will have 4-5x the number of murders as Toronto this year, with a population roughly the same size.

Do you think the definition of per capita is “Whatever I believe in my stupid, stupid head?”

#95 Tater on 09.10.18 at 7:59 am

#83 Newcomer on 09.10.18 at 1:19 am
#58 Dee on 09.09.18 at 9:03 pm

What is the downside to the cad$ with all this? Im ready to exit the currency completely. The potential loss from moving into alternate currencies is something i can sleep with
——–

I’d be careful. You never know what is going to happen to a currency. Look at what happened in the GFC, that was brutal for those of us that earn in USD and spend in CAD. If you move you money out of CAD at a fairly low point for CAD, historically, you could have to wait years, maybe even a decade, to buy it so cheap again. I have reason to hope CAD gets cheaper but I wouldn’t place speculative bets on it with money I plan to spend in Canada any time soon.
—————————————————————-
For a Canadian, living and working in Canada, the largest asset that they have (likely) is the PV of their future CAD earnings. Moving current saving into another currency is not massively risky as long as productive assets are purchased. So, USD broad market indexes in USD, sure. Any digital coin, no.

#96 TurnerNation on 09.10.18 at 8:37 am

#94 Tater I see you detected the question mark at the end of my statement. Did you answer it or just hate?
Ah the Left. Here are some facts.

Toronto is going backwards , regressing.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/gun-ban-why-aim-for-saving-one-life-instead-of-10-a-year

As of Sept. 2, there had been 285 shooting occurrences in the city this year — up 130% from the 124 shooting occurrences at this point in 2014.

And so far in 2018, there have been 378 shooting victims in Toronto, up 149% from the 152 shooting victims at this point in 2014.

#97 Gravy Train on 09.10.18 at 8:38 am

#84 Nonplused on 09.10.18 at 1:32 am
“I believe Hanna Barbra may have been making the same pun.” Don’t forget the hyphen: Hanna-Barbera. (It was an animation studio, not a person.) :)

#98 Remembrancer on 09.10.18 at 9:05 am

#85 Linda on 09.10.18 at 1:38 am

Ah, the famous deposit as security for the deal.

What hasn’t come up yet in this thread is that the selling agency is holding that hostage (er, in trust) as compensation for themselves if the buyer tries to break the contract and walk away…

#99 Lee on 09.10.18 at 9:11 am

#92 Happy House Stabilization Everyone,

Toronto is balanced? Take a walk by your local food back at noon today. Its funny how many homeowners wear sunglasses on a rainy day.

#100 Tater on 09.10.18 at 9:18 am

#96 TurnerNation on 09.10.18 at 8:37 am
#94 Tater I see you detected the question mark at the end of my statement. Did you answer it or just hate?
Ah the Left. Here are some facts.

Toronto is going backwards , regressing.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/gun-ban-why-aim-for-saving-one-life-instead-of-10-a-year

As of Sept. 2, there had been 285 shooting occurrences in the city this year — up 130% from the 124 shooting occurrences at this point in 2014.

And so far in 2018, there have been 378 shooting victims in Toronto, up 149% from the 152 shooting victims at this point in 2014.
—————————————————————–

So initially you said murders, but now you’re on to shootings. Doesn’t much matter, its still a really dumb question. That you could have answered with about 30 seconds of googling and a minute of critical thought.

So far this year, Chicago has had 2069 shootings. So, no, we won’t have more than them this year. Or next year. Or the year after.

#101 Wrk.dover on 09.10.18 at 9:28 am

#95 Tater on 09.10.18 at 7:59 am
If you move you money out of CAD at a fairly low point for CAD, historically, you could have to wait years, maybe even a decade, to buy it so cheap again. I have reason to hope CAD gets cheaper but I wouldn’t place speculative bets on it with money I plan to spend in Canada any time soon.
————————————

Or, ever.

Interesting point to consider. I don’t understand how CDN$ will ever recover from where it is going to go, but, your point is valid after it’s return to value.

I’m glad you brought that to my attention.

#102 paulo on 09.10.18 at 9:40 am

#85 linda:

using a realestate laywer to assist you in a home purchase is a very smart move.
you will incure a small fee in return for circumventing having to deal with the cartel
your laywer can hold your deposit in escrow,review and advise you on the preperation of your offer,and guide you through the process than close the transaction.

a definate option for savy purchasers,looking to control the process of purchasing a home.

Nope. Not that simple. Most homes for sale are listed with a brokerage and the seller is under agreement. You will not be able to buy and have your lawyer hold the deposit. Naïve. – Garth

#103 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 9:47 am

The American dream is back, white picket fences for all down the road.

Lower taxes and Deregulation.

Been 100 years since the GDP was higher than the unemployment rate

Go long on the USA…

Nice Work President Trump..

#104 dharma bum on 09.10.18 at 10:05 am

I signed back an offer yesterday at pretty much my original asking price (countering the low-ball received).

I feel like the clock is ticking, and that the whole thing is about to explode.

I gotta get my money and get out before it’s TOO LATE!

The current market is just like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rPDGz_0qvw

#105 IHCTD9 on 09.10.18 at 10:11 am

If you’re just a regular working schmuck, you simply can not arrive at 40 with no assets, still buried in debt, or without a decent nest egg on the go. If so, you’re screwed.

Frankly, just about everyone in the GTA who is not wealthy in liquid form is heading for mid life with nothing on the books. A life of heavy rent payments, meager/zero savings, and no asset accumulation. Those that put everything on the line for a house have gambled huge as they’ve got no plan B other than hoping for huge RE appreciation.

Canada has an emigration rate 5 times higher than the USA. If a steady melt in RE prices continues year over year – it’ll go to 10X.

#106 Uzurpator on 09.10.18 at 10:19 am

Wazoo uses GPS to find its users the best deals custom for them, near their area. It automatically sends alerts for discounted offers, and gives coupons for Restaurants, Hotels, Spas, Shopping, and other businesses. Wazoo shows the user all businesses your area and these results are customized based on preferences and settings. Wazoo lets you compare prices for you favorite foods, so you can easily make choices depending on your location and what you like. Wazoo is the best way to explore and become familiar with new areas!

Headquartered in both India and the United States, Wazoo allows people to find over 1,500,000 business records sorted by category. The India Headquarters is in Ahmedabad, where in the city there is a large and growing network of businesses all posting their best deals and discounts for users to access for free. These deals include Burgers, Chinese Food, Seafood, Italian Food, Sizzlers, Naan, Salads, Ice Cream, and many more. Also Wazoo is partnered with many Hotels throughout India. These hotels post discounted room rates.

By presenting the Wazoo receipt you are entitled to purchase the offer at the given discount from these business partners. These restaurants, hotels, convenience stores, liquor stores, spas, and other retailers are actively using Wazoo to notify phone users about their best deals and discounts. Free items are often posted on Wazoo, with buy one get one free offers being very common.

Wazoo uses the least data and battery of any similar app, and it is the fastest way to find a variety of deals and businesses in your area. Coupons are sent based on your interests, so you will always receive discounts for the food and drink items you are most interested in. These features make Wazoo the best free app for food, hotel, and shopping deals!

#107 Bobby on 09.10.18 at 10:30 am

For #85 Linda,

I used solely a lawyer when selling my last home. Worked very well. My lawyer held the deposit in trust. She said it was the smoothest transaction she had ever encountered.

A realtor also showed up with an offer, wanted a full commission, played a lot of stupid games and wanted to facilitate a bidding war. In the end her client offered much more but didn’t get the home.

Interestingly, afterwards the agent vented her frustration at not getting the home as her clients had missed out on a number of buying opportunities.

I didn’t have the heart to say that she was the problem.

There are too many amateurish agents out there who are trying to help people navigate the most expensive purchase of their lives.

This will not end well.

#108 45north on 09.10.18 at 10:35 am

TurnerNation: on the subject of gun control, policing: from your link:
Yet the leaders of the city, including John Tory, refuse to talk about resurrecting some version of the Toronto Anti-violence Intervention Strategy program or taking the handcuffs off police so they can do the job they are paid to do — enforcing the law.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/gun-ban-why-aim-for-saving-one-life-instead-of-10-a-year

I guess John Tory gets to explain his plan. He and Kathleen Wynne can talk about old times after the election.

Gangs hide guns under the cars of unsuspecting Canadians: He said a standard method of cross-border smuggling is to fill up a box with guns, equip it with a GPS tracker and strap it to the bottom of a car with a Canadian licence plate parked near the U.S. border.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/what-it-would-look-like-if-canada-banned-all-handguns

Next time I drive to the States, coming back to Canada, I’m going to have a good look under my car.

#109 Terry Zabolega on 09.10.18 at 10:43 am

There are going to be a lot of surprised people in #Toronto and even more in #vancity.
https://twitter.com/Mr_Silbergleit/status/1038799028937404416

#110 45north on 09.10.18 at 10:46 am

Dolce Vita: Chart you found last year about Asset Bubbles and I thanked you for back then has been resurrected to explain 416 RE in the present.
An interesting narrative accompanies each phase. Worth a read.

Next phase beginning this Qtr. I book marked it and downloaded it (just in case it disappears in the future).

if it’s so interesting, why don’t you post it?

We are in the Dead Cat bounce phase.

that’s what I think. I mean the banks are hiding behind B20. They’re withdrawing credit. I doesn’t suit them to make big announcements. They’re going to let people figure it out by themselves.

#111 Bytor the Snow Dog on 09.10.18 at 10:50 am

#74 Jack on 09.09.18 at 11:57 pm sez:
“Hi Garth,
I moved to Calgary for about a year. We are thinking of buying a house in a year time and now keeping tracking of the RE sold listing statistics myself.
Through research, it seems it is mandatory to sign BRA with a realtor before using their service.
2. Are Buyer Representation Agreements mandatory?
Yes. As of July 1, 2014, the Real Estate Council of Alberta requires residential real estate professionals to use written service agreements when working with a client. Real estate professionals will ask buyer and seller clients to sign a written service agreement.
I guess if we do go ahead, we should sign the least harmful one, which is non-exclusive BRA? Any suggestions?
Thanks for your time.
Jack”

————————————————————-

Why do you need a Realtor™ to buy a home? All you need is a Home Inspector and a lawyer.

If it is listed and the seller under contract, you should have representation. – Garth

#112 45north on 09.10.18 at 10:52 am

Jane24: When I brought and sold house myself I did a lot of striking out and initialing.

If I had brought recently under duress from my agent and had lost a lot of money I would try to make them responsible.

do you know how annoying it is to read the word brought when it should be bought?

#113 Victor V on 09.10.18 at 11:04 am

Vaughan condo buyers take developer to court over cancelled project

https://www.thestar.com/business/2018/09/05/vaughan-condo-buyers-take-developer-to-court-over-cancelled-project.html

#114 penguin on 09.10.18 at 11:20 am

#50 Bytor the Snow Dog
Uhhhhh….is having a Realtor™ mandatory to buy or sell a house?

Garth has always advocated getting a real estate agent, and not do it yourself.

#115 Tbone on 09.10.18 at 11:21 am

You can sell your house by yourself with comfree .
You will get listed on realtor.ca .
Check sites for comparables.
Agree to work with agents when they call with buyers.
Negotiate a fee and make your best deal.
Then go to your real estate lawyer to finalize before you sign anything .

If you don’t like dealing with people and aren’t comfortable negotiating
They have more options .

#116 Remembrancer on 09.10.18 at 11:27 am

#106 Uzurpator on 09.10.18 at 10:19 am

Nice advert spamming, its already been established what this word means in the context it was used…

Not interested in what comes out of your app…

#117 IHCTD9 on 09.10.18 at 11:46 am

Looking at the Canadian economy over the next 4-5 years assuming round 2 for both Trump and Trudeau. Mining dead, Forestry dead, Oil dead, Auto dead – and a bevy of tariffs on all kinds of things we don’t even produce here (good one Trudeau).

The retaliatory Canadian tariffs will start to bleed Canadian based (but foreign owned) business from the landscape – starting with auto. Half a million good paying full time jobs running in the gutters will be just the beginning.

Companies involved in energy and resource extraction start to feel the pain shortly thereafter. They can’t get any projects approved, and their biggest customers now find them too expensive to buy from. These big energy companies also start migrating south looking for some breathing room.

Several more nations economically disengage with Canada as the Trudeau Liberals continue to hop on twitter to publicly shame their cultures and histories. More Nations start making deals with Trump without us. With every year that passes, Canada becomes more obscure and irrelevant as the SJW products we are selling the world continue to sit, and pass their best-before dates.

Soon, our big public utilities start feeling the pinch – their huge costs are essentially fixed, but with the death of hydro intensive industries like Steel and auto production gone forever – hydro usage falls off a cliff. Rates must rise double digits – right when taxpayers can afford it the least. Our current energy dense lifestyles become a memory of a better, more luxurious time.

Finally, tax revenues start nosediving alongside GDP and overall economic activity. No new investment has been made in any major part of the economy by private interests. Canada is 100% dependent on immigration to maintain our population – but less and less folks feel like hanging around as total tax burden nears 70%. Government revenues spiral down as its costs increase, these create a self whipping tornado of payouts, shortfalls, and new taxation.

In the end we have a broke populous, a broke government, and a dead nanny state. Canadians vote hard left for any reprieve they can get – but, like in Greece; none will be had. The road is now austerity for a generation.

#118 Bdwy sktn on 09.10.18 at 11:51 am

112 45north on 09.10.18 at 10:52 am

Jane24: When I brought and sold house myself I did a lot of striking out and initialing.

If I had brought recently under duress from my agent and had lost a lot of money I would try to make them responsible.
..
do you know how annoying it is to read the word brought when it should be bought?
………….
What I find far more annoying is people who are not minors or mentally incapacitated trying to make others responsible for their own damn decisions.

Waaa, the salesman tried to sell something. I lost all control of my brain!!!!

I did sales in my past career. “How do you know a salesman is lying? His lips are moving “

#119 armpit on 09.10.18 at 12:26 pm

Real Estate brokers and salesperson will go by way of milk delivery when UBER becomes popular.

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/uber-real-estate-is-now-disrupting-real-estate-with-their-uber-model-2018-09-04

#120 Tater on 09.10.18 at 12:49 pm

#119 armpit on 09.10.18 at 12:26 pm
Real Estate brokers and salesperson will go by way of milk delivery when UBER becomes popular.

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/uber-real-estate-is-now-disrupting-real-estate-with-their-uber-model-2018-09-04
—————————————————————
I can’t imagine a bright future for the morons who wrote this appalling press release.

And no, they aren’t affiliated with UBER the ride sharing company.

#121 SimplyPut7 on 09.10.18 at 1:12 pm

#9 TurnerNation on 09.09.18 at 4:18 pm
#100 Tater on 09.10.18 at 9:18 am

There is an increase in gang violence but it extends across all ethnicities and outside of the Toronto borders, as gang members were founding hiding in cities/towns outside of Toronto. All greater golden horseshoe area police officers should be involved in come up with an updated version of TAVIS.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/gun-ban-why-aim-for-saving-one-life-instead-of-10-a-year

15 YEARS OF BLOODSHED

2004: 64 (27 by gun)
2005: 80 (52 by gun) — Year of the Gun
2006: 70 (43 by gun) — TAVIS launched
2007: 86 (44 by gun)
2008: 70 (37 by gun)
2009: 62 (37 by gun)
2010: 63 (32 by gun)
2011: 51 (28 by gun)
2012: 56 (33 by gun)
2013: 57 (22 by gun)
2014: 58 (27 by gun)
2015: 57 (27 by gun) — Carding suspended
2016: 74 (41 by gun) — TAVIS disbanded
2017: 66 (39 by gun)
2018: 75 (38 by gun so far, as of Sept. 9)

If you take out the terrorists attacks (at least two occurred, 12 people killed). Toronto murders drops down to 63 as of Sept 9, with 36 by gun.

Social media, MSM (who enjoy trying to compare every year to 2005 the “summer of the gun”), dash cams, surveillance cameras on private residences and on businesses, make certain types of violent crimes appear to occur more than they have in the past as we get information from individuals on scene instantly rather than wait several days or weeks as would be the case in 2005 and 2007.

A gun ban, is not going to stop the violence, it will just turn Toronto into London (UK) where murders by gang members occur by stabbings or gang members will get guns from the US again.

It might be also helpful to look at why there are so many 15-20 year olds hellbent on killing each other, when supposedly the Liberals created this perfect socialist society with free post-secondary tuition, medication for all under 25, guaranteed basic income and a “living wage” that is supposed to go up to $15/hr if Doug Ford isn’t stopped by SJWs.

#122 Newcomer on 09.10.18 at 1:21 pm

#105 IHCTD9 on 09.10.18 at 10:11 am

Canada has an emigration rate 5 times higher than the USA.
—-

This is a good example of how not looking for context can be confusing. A 5x higher immigration rate looks like it would have a differential impact. But Canada and the US have basically the same population growth rates (around 1%). In the US, that mostly comes from babies. In Canada, more of it comes from immigrants. The impact is actually equalizing, not differentiating. If the Canadian immigration rate was the same as the US rate, our population would shrink like Japan’s.

#123 Smartalox on 09.10.18 at 1:30 pm

#19 is correct in their description of the ‘wazoo’ as a musical instrument. In fact, there is a regular commenter on this site, (CrowdedElevatorFartz) who claims to be a virtuoso with that very instrument!

#124 Bytor the Snow Dog on 09.10.18 at 1:32 pm

#111 Bytor the Snow Dog on 09.10.18 at 10:50 am to
#74 Jack on 09.09.18 at 11:57 pm:

“Why do you need a Realtor™ to buy a home? All you need is a Home Inspector and a lawyer.”

Garth sez: “If it is listed and the seller under contract, you should have representation.” – Garth
——————————————————————

#114 penguin on 09.10.18 at 11:20 am to
#50 Bytor the Snow Dog who wrote:
“Uhhhhh….is having a Realtor™ mandatory to buy or sell a house?”

“Garth has always advocated getting a real estate agent, and not do it yourself.”
——————————————————————–

My point is that you can remind a realtor his/her services are not mandatory and that if they want a BRA they can, uh, take a long walk off a short pier.

#125 Smartalox on 09.10.18 at 1:35 pm

Regarding making a BRA specific to an address, if forced to sign…

With so many properties being subject to multiple listings, would it not be more prudent to limit the BRA to a specific listing (specified by MLS number) such that if that listing were to expire, or if the same address were to be re-listed under more favourable terms, then the BRA would not apply?

I mean, if one side is going to game the system by re-listing properties in multiple jurisdictions, or re-listing dogged properties as new (despite having been listed previously for many months) the buyer might as well turn that to their advantage, right?

#126 Stan Brooks on 09.10.18 at 2:35 pm

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/uber-real-estate-is-now-disrupting-real-estate-with-their-uber-model-2018-09-04


“People are completely sick of fees and the boring drama of under-educated inexperienced Realtor cheerleaders. Uber Real Estate provides superior service with the unnecessary overhead, inefficiencies and bureaucracy removed. Uber Real Estate is the much-needed disruption in the Real Estate space.”

Looking forward to it.

Real estate is a service. Sale of a house that take 50 hours of an agent’s time should be priced at 5 k, not 50 k.

Some realtors turned the unregulated real estate market into cartel/mafia market where they lie, cheat, dual represent, insider trade, do not disclose information and work for themselves, not their clients.

Being hungry with market decline is one, but complete disappearance or streamlining of the jobs is next with probably good chance of max 10 % of the real estate industry staff surviving the big disturbance permanently.

Enjoy while it lasts realtors, enjoy while it lasts.

#127 IHCTD9 on 09.10.18 at 2:36 pm

You know, if we ever went down the Venezuela road with hard left socialism where our economy and currency were eventually destroyed, and it became a de facto SHTF situation – how would we all fare?

I look at the IHCTD9 compound and things look alright, because a lot of the 100+ year old lifestyle still remains here.

I have 4 acres, enough for a big garden and a few animals. I have a big barn, more than enough for animals and equipment. I have 2 wells, one has the original (still working) cast iron hand pump. I also have a big pond that is about 12 feet deep in the spring, and 6 feet deep in august. I also have heavy and light equipment which could be used for agriculture.

My plans for modern day tax offsetting and avoidance also seem to improve our situation if “Maduro of the North” ever took power. A couple of gasifiers would allow for modern day style transportation using wood fuel. It could also provide electricity when desired as well. Providing tons of heat, powering mowers and agricultural equipment are further benefits of owning a couple of these things.

About the only things I’m missing are a .410, a .22, a .308, and a 12 gauge – along with a pile of ammo and half a ton of freeze dried food :).

#128 Cazador on 09.10.18 at 3:19 pm

Jane24: When I brought and sold house myself I did a lot of striking out and initialing.

If I had brought recently under duress from my agent and had lost a lot of money I would try to make them responsible.

45North: do you know how annoying it is to read the word brought when it should be bought?

Perhaps Jane brought her house somewhere and sold it once she got there? Ever think of that?

#129 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 3:42 pm

Boom….. Notwithstanding Clause.

Predicting mass hystaria at the Toronto Star.

#130 jess on 09.10.18 at 3:45 pm

Loblaws to appeal court ruling that calls for payment of $368M in back taxes

Case stems from banking subsidiary of grocer based in Barbados
CBC News · Posted: Sep 10, 2018 10:18 AM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/loblaws-tax-barbados-1.4816973

=====
The United States is pledging to use “any means necessary” to protect American citizens and allies from International Criminal Court prosecution.

U.S. President Donald Trump’s national security adviser, John Bolton, said Monday the court is “illegitimate” and “for all intents and purposes, the ICC is already dead to us.”

The ICC, which is based in the Hague, has a mandate to prosecute war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.

#131 Remembrancer on 09.10.18 at 3:50 pm

#125 Smartalox on 09.10.18 at 1:35 pm

KISS principle – set it for a limited period of time for an particular purpose like Garth originally said.

The scenarios you are describing sound highly contrived or excessively paranoid. The BRA is a contract that you as a buyer are engaging with an agent to represent you in a search and potential transaction through to closing – as such both parties have rights and obligations to the other.

#132 n1tro on 09.10.18 at 3:55 pm

#3 Oakville Stinks on 09.09.18 at 3:54 pm

Realtor tried to get me to sign it under duress. Contract Law says a contract can be voided if individual is signing under duress.
———————————
Good luck proving the elements of duress in front of a judge…

1. There is an immediate threat of death or serious bodily injury to the actor.
2. The actor has a well-grounded fear that someone will carry out the threat.
3. The actor has no reasonable opportunity for escape, except by committing the unlawful act.

#133 Keith in Rio on 09.10.18 at 3:59 pm

If you were to ban forks, Michael Moore would still be fat.

#134 Remembrancer on 09.10.18 at 4:08 pm

#129 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 3:42 pm
Boom….. Notwithstanding Clause.

Predicting mass hystaria at the Toronto Star.
—————————————————————-
The only upside so far, if you believe governments spend money inefficiently, is Ontario tax $$ are going to Ontario provincial lawyers salaries to argue with City of Toronto lawyers paid for by Toronto tax $$ in front of Ontario court justices and court employees also paid by Ontario tax $$. All of these costs er salaries can then directly returned to the economy – that’s brilliant!

The RE angle? Maybe ON cons are secretly subsidizing the legal industry to make up for failing Audi, BMW and MB leases and propping up housing sales at the same time!

Not my idea of respect for the tax payer though @FordNation…

#135 Remembrancer on 09.10.18 at 4:29 pm

#130 jess on 09.10.18 at 3:45 pm

The ICC, which is based in the Hague, has a mandate to prosecute war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.
—————————————————————

Ya, the US is already not a signatory / has never ratified membership. The seven countries that voted against the original treaty in 1998 were Iraq, Israel, Libya, China, Qatar, Yemen, and the United States.

#136 Ace Goodheart on 09.10.18 at 4:34 pm

RE: #129 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 3:42 pm

“Boom….. Notwithstanding Clause.

Predicting mass hystaria at the Toronto Star.”

Back in 1982 when the “Charter of Rights and Freedoms” came into existence, my prediction was that it would have the effect of taking legislative power away from elected governments, and putting it into the hands of unelected, appointed Judges.

My principal concern with this situation was the opaqueness of the process by which a Judge is appointed, and the predominance, at that time, of Judges who could answer “yes” to the same three questions:

1. Are you white?
2. Are you male?
3. Did you come from money and privilege?

The Charter appeared to me to be a way for the upper classes to control the lower classes by restricting what they could have their governments do, and by keeping ultimate legislative power and authority with a group of people (Judges) who came from their ranks and who would toe their line.

To some extent, I was wrong.

What actually ended up happening, was the Judicialization of socialism. Parliament and legislature became increasingly disconnected from the “common person” and the Courts became a sort of socialist intervention force, re-writing law after law, at the request of various special interest groups that would take the government to Court to achieve legislative goals that they could not achieve through democratic process.

The “save Toronto” court case that Ford intends to over rule using “notwithstanding” appears to fall into that category once again. Really, what has happened is Ford has attacked a social club, that being the 47 Toronto counsellors and their hangers-on, reducing their size by almost 1/2 and throwing hundreds of their followers out of work.

Ask yourself, do you really care who your City counsellor is, or what they do? When was the last time you called this person? When this person decides to take a month to travel in Europe, to “sell” your part of the city to some famed European destination city, while enjoying wine tours and fancy accommodation at your expense, bringing their entourage along with them and having the time of their lives, do you care? Do you benefit? Does your neighbourhood get better somehow?

I suspect not.

Fordsie has attacked a social club, and that social club has fought back in a predictable way.

What no one seemed to consider is that Ford is not a predictable person, and he does not follow the “old rules”

#137 Gravy Train on 09.10.18 at 4:44 pm

#123 Smartalox on 09.10.18 at 1:30 pm
“#19 is correct in their description of the ‘wazoo’ as a musical instrument[….]” What’s your octave range? :)

#138 Gravy Train on 09.10.18 at 5:55 pm

#117 IHCTD9 on 09.10.18 at 11:46 am
“The retaliatory Canadian tariffs will start to bleed Canadian based (but foreign owned) business from the landscape – starting with auto.[…]”. Wow, you certainly paint a bleak picture.

Are you aware that retaliatory Chinese tariffs on U.S. corn and beef are effectively increasing their price for Chinese consumers, thereby making Canadian corn and beef cheaper for them to buy? Canadian farmers are the beneficiaries of Trump’s trade war—and they’re not even part of his ‘deplorable’ base—while the U.S. farmers who voted for Trump are screwed!

I’m glad to see Freeland standing up to Trumpty Dumpty; it’s the only way to deal with a bully! Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler; it didn’t do any good. It took Churchill and FDR to stop the bully.

Oh—and my money’s on Mueller! :)

#139 Gravy Train on 09.10.18 at 6:36 pm

#103 Smoking Man on 09.10.18 at 9:47 am
“[…] Been 100 years since the GDP was higher than the unemployment rate[….]”. False: It has happened at least 185 times in the past century, doofus!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/us/politics/trump-gdp-unemployment-fact-check.html