Smoke & FIRE

Brittany’s 28, married, pregnant, rents, has an inuksuk tat on her forearm and two degrees. “We want to retire in seven years,” she said in our meeting.

After I’d mopped up the coffee exiting my nose, we continued. Perhaps she had a million or two coming from her mom. Was that the plan? But, nope, it was all desire, visioning, entitlement, expectation, hope and ignorance. B and her furry husband actually expect they can go from (literally) zero savings or investments now to a million bucks in less than a decade, while raising a family. That’s the first mistake. Ain’t gonna happen.

And then, they believe they’ll be able to live off a seven-figure portfolio for the rest of their lives – about 40 years – and have a cool time doing it. Mistake two. Lastly, they figure if you don’t have any investments you should go to an Investment Advisor and get some. Like Whole Foods. Or the Apple Store.

This, trust me, is not an isolated instance of money myopia. It’s all over Moisterville these days. An amazing number of people who have barely started into their careers are looking hard for the exit. Not only do they focus on quitting, instead of achieving, but there’s no concept whatsoever of how long, expensive or full of crap the average life turns out being.

I have an admission, though. This is partly my fault.

Years ago I took on as clients two aggressive, self-confident, unusually irritating Type A kids then in their late twenties working as IT flunkies for the banks. They eschewed buying a house, lived on air, saved prodigiously, and pumped every extra dollar into their balanced portfolio, which in a few years plumped from $500,000 to a million. They brought champagne to my office, then went to their jobs and loudly quit. Boom, Retired at 30.

This was followed by travelling, partying, book-writing, partying, cavorting, more travelling and then some partying. When we met they enthused about wanting to help other moisters live their dream. So write a blog and start a revolution, I said. And they did. The Millennial Revolution.

Now I can’t keep up with emails like this:

Love your blog. I’ve been reading it for years and really respect your work.

I never thought I’d write to you, but I’ve been thinking about something recently and wondered if you would give me your two cents on the topic.  Perhaps some other blog readers would be interested in it, too.

I’m sure you’ve heard of the financially independent and retire early movement (FIRE is what a lot of bloggers call it) that’s popular with millennials.  What do you think of it?  My partner and I are playing with the idea.  We’re in our early thirties, live in Toronto and rent.  I’m currently home with the kids and my husband works.  We want to move to a nicer neighbourhood for green space and better schools, but we can’t swallow the price tag because it’s so obvious prices will come down.  What’s the point in this rat race when a family like ours feels like leaving the city?  We work in finance and our jobs only exist in Toronto, which is why we’re thinking about FIRE and moving to a nicer city.  Are we nuts?

Many thanks,
Liz

So the FIRE movement has definitely caught a wave. Central to it (until Doug Ford arrived) was the notion of a guaranteed annual income – a basic amount every citizen would receive for, well, citizenship. Kind of like a gold star Participation Award for being special. And aren’t we all?

It’s a corollary of the gig economy, in which the notion of career is pffft. Resumes are cacophonous. Officeplace longevity is scorned. Pensions aren’t even on the radar. But there is a curious attraction to Big Government and a belief the future is all about sharing, not rugged individualism. An entire generation, and no cowboy boots. Few conservatives. Big expectations – like those of Liz and Brittany.

At the heart of FIRE are two tenets (which my now-famous clients excelled at): saving and side hustles. Nobody’s going to retire in their thirties without spending nothing, salting away everything and mooching incessantly. Now you might understand why 44% of Boomers still have spawn in the basement. As for the hustling part, FIRE devotees would rather run a website flogging junk financed through PayPal or supported by clicks than go to work for some company in exchange for a paycheque. Selling time is so, like, paleo.

Of course being cheap and non-linear makes for lousy spenders. So FIRE is also about anti-consumerism and do-it-yourselfism. Why pay anyone to do anything when you’ve got YouTube and Google? Better to life-hack, get by, build the nestegg, then check out.

Is there something to learn here? Maybe. But really smart people spend their lives doing what they want, erasing that line between work and the rest. Retirement for them is irrelevant.

By the way, my two clients have been living off a modest 4-5% income stream from their million bucks, yet now work far more hours than they did when the bank owned them. They’re obsessed with creating a FIRE franchise, online, in speeches, books and the media. The party ended. The big gig started. Selling vapours is really hard work. Who knew?

181 comments ↓

#1 LJ on 08.29.18 at 5:33 pm

Do what you enjoy.

Great advice!!!

#2 jess on 08.29.18 at 5:33 pm

“the financialisation of housing” – the growing trend of multi-billion-dollar firms owning and operating residential real estate for maximum profits – and it’s a pattern she said she’s seeing around the world.”
============================
In Toronto, the country’s largest city, more than 92,000 applicants were on the active waiting list for social housing last year. In Montreal, about 25,000 households are currently on the list to receive low-rent housing, but only 2,000 units are made available annually. About 10,500 families are currently on a waiting list for subsidised housing in Ottawa.

Timbercreek announced in May that it intends to demolish 150 townhouses along three streets in its 16-hectare, 1,665 unit rental complex. In so doing it’s displacing hundreds of residents, many of whom are new immigrants and low-income earners, paying affordable rents for three- and four-bedroom units to house families twice that size.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/battle-lines-drawn-in-heron-gate-where-an-evicted-community-doesnt-plan-on-leaving

#3 tccontrarian on 08.29.18 at 5:37 pm

“After I’d mopped up the coffee exiting my nose, we continued.” Classic GT

Q: How do you get to a million $ investing in the TSX Venture?
A: You start with $5 million! :)
——

Speaking of FIRE, my FIRE.V (Supreme Pharmaceuticals), was… yes, on fire today! Man, I didn’t know that Garth can actually move the markets. Just like the FED! LOL

TCC

#4 PastThePeak on 08.29.18 at 5:37 pm

It was perhaps 10 or so years back, where I recall reading numerous articles, as well as hearing a few presentations, on how the Millennials were going to be the most successful generation since the Greatest Generation (those who fought in WW2, had the boomer spawn, and then built the modern western world).

The Millennials were going to be builders, travellers, and have great work/life balance. They weren’t going to be into buying houses like their parents, but would be more nomadic, looking to have experiences. You could work in a white collar job from anyware. They excelled in teams and collaboration, didn’t have past prejudices, had lots of education, and were going to be hard workers.

Millennials were going to change the world, big time. This view wasn’t just a passing fad. It was article after article.

Somewhere between then and now the wheels really came off the bus…

#5 Dirtydeeds on 08.29.18 at 5:39 pm

First

#6 Dusty on 08.29.18 at 5:41 pm

Instead of trying to retire early or quitting jobs to go backpacking or “doing Europe”, why don’t we build lives that we don’t want to escape from?

#7 Damifino on 08.29.18 at 5:42 pm

I managed FIRE by the age of 56 (year 2007).

Whaddaya mean? That was early!

#8 Dirty debtor on 08.29.18 at 5:44 pm

Mill here, hitting 3-0 next month. Neither horny for real estate nor intend to retire early. Spent the last decade investing in my skills and enjoying my 20s as much as possible (while still being pragmatic and forward thinking).

Watching my parents (60s) retire has been a big lesson. They have nothing left. I can see when you get old, work and purpose is very important to your mental health.

I don’t think I will ever want to retire, but am glad I’ve been investing in a career that will let me “slow down” and keep working instead.

#9 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 08.29.18 at 5:46 pm

We don’t need no water let the mother SHYSTER burn
Burn mother SHYSTER burn. Going to be fun watching the SHYSTERS in the FIRE sector burn.

Happy Housing Crash Everyone!

#10 Zapstrap on 08.29.18 at 5:46 pm

Aren’t the FIRE people those who vote for T2 and expect him to draw blood from “those who have.” Gird your loins …

#11 Catalyst on 08.29.18 at 5:51 pm

I think the FIRE talk is misdirected and shouldn’t be about quitting your job but a balanced approach to earning/budgeting. Not everyone has similar life circumstances to retire at 30 but everyone should have a budget.

#12 SmarterSquirrel on 08.29.18 at 5:58 pm

To me the point of saving and investing is to have the financial security and freedom to do what you want to do. Stop working for a while and relax. Switch to a lower paying job if you find it more rewarding. Even if you keep the same job, knowing you are financially secure certainly removes a lot of stress in life and allows you to enjoy life more.

And knowing you won’t be broke in your old age is also a wonderful thing.

#13 Nonplused on 08.29.18 at 6:00 pm

How on earth can 2 people expect to retire at 30 on a paltry million bucks? Even at 5% that’s only $50 grand a year. That ain’t much now and in 30 years when the price of everything has doubled it won’t be much at all. Hopefully their blog works out and by that I mean brings in a lot of money.

I never considered that story to be one of “success”, rather one of short sited hubris. I mean a million bucks is a great start at 30 but it isn’t enough to live on for the rest of your life anymore. 35 years from now that $50,000 a year will have the buying power of $25,000 a year today and there won’t be much CPP because they didn’t pay in for very long.

Oh well I guess the world could get hit by a meteor or the ruskies might accidentally launch their nukes any day, in which case they win. I guess it all depends on what rate you discount distant years. For example quitting smoking doesn’t make much sense if you think it likely the world will end shortly either. But if you think there is a good chance the world will still be here after Trump’s 8 years it makes sense to keep earning money at 30 and 40 and even 50 no matter how much money you’ve saved. Because if you’ve saved enough to support a perpetuL retirement, which would be closer to $3 million, you probably make enough to make it worth while to show up for work. $3 million at 5% would yield $150,000 a year but again in 35 years it would be worth $75,000 in today’s money. I suppose as you get towards 70 you could start drawing principle so maybe you could do it on $2 million but it would have to be quite well planned out.

#14 Ron on 08.29.18 at 6:06 pm

Many people derive no sense of meaning, purpose or utility from their jobs, because they have Bullshit Jobs. Anthropologist David Graeber has done excellent work describing and taxonomizing the various flavors of Bullshit Jobs. From Wikipedia:

“Graeber contends that more than half of societal work is pointless, both large parts of some jobs and, as he describes, five types of entirely pointless jobs:

1. Flunkies, who serve to make others feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants

2. Goons, who act aggressively on behalf of their employers, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations

3. Duct tapers, who fix problems that shouldn’t exist, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code

4. Box tickers, e.g., performance managers, in-house magazine journalists, leisure coordinators

5. Taskmasters, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals”

No wonder so many people want to retire early. However, early retirement is no panacea either, since many people lack the imagination and drive to keep themselves occupied in the absence of a job.

But isn’t it better to retire while you’re young enough to cultivate hobbies and relationships then to retire when you’re old and only then realize you have no idea what to do with yourself?

#15 Grey Dog on 08.29.18 at 6:06 pm

Liz and her husband BOTH work in finance and don’t realize they need to SAVE the money first before they can invest.

I do admire your FIREstarters attitude of reduced consumption, maybe they don’t mind burning the candle at both ends now as they are passionate about what they are doing, as long as they aren’t conning anyone. Planting the dream, live on air, save, INVEST, live the Dream on their terms.

#16 Fallacy of composition on 08.29.18 at 6:09 pm

Yes, do it all yourself, don’t spend any money and you will go from gig economy to no economy if everyone did that. I am in my early thirties and I can attest to the hard work and sacrifice it takes to save and invest. There are no shortcuts. There is no way you can go from zero to a million in seven years without sacrificing the prime of your life. Only recently, I have I started to appreciate the true value of time. Woke up one day and 10 years were gone. I work full time with a side gig and I can honestly say that days fly by. Make smart moves and enjoy life people. You might work your whole life and wake up dead with a million in the bank. Was it worth it?

#17 Jungle on 08.29.18 at 6:09 pm

The middle class today is not the same as it was years ago. This is the reason why you are seeing this movement -boomers grew up in easier economic time. Cheaper houses, cheaper cost of living, big pensions, easy , good paying employment, etc.

And this is not going to stop. With the rental crises now you still need to make big money, buy RE, stocks or move to somewhere cheaper to live.

#18 mitzerboyakaQueencitykidd on 08.29.18 at 6:12 pm

i hate to say it while i simultaneously enjoy sayin it

dogs are great
beer is good
people are crazy

#19 FIRE me up on 08.29.18 at 6:13 pm

Whats wrong with wanting FIRE?
You say those two millennial retirees now work more than before, well it seems like they have found what they love and it doesn’t seem like work to them anymore. They probably wouldn’t be able to do that without their 4-5% annual withdraw.

I’m a millennial and hell ya I want to be part of the FIRE movement. You mean I can leave my job which stresses me out, move to a foreign country, buy a house for 20K, homeschool my kids so they have a Canadian diploma, lay in a hammock and read a book, take online courses? Be on my own time? I put the numbers together and that can come in 12 years for me if I continually work hard. Sounds a lot better than 30+years.

#20 The Great Gazoo on 08.29.18 at 6:14 pm

Definition of cacophonous
: marked by cacophony : harsh-sounding

like an old battlefield, once cacophonous with the clash of steel, the roar of cannon, the screams of wounded and dying men —Brian Moore

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cacophonous

#21 wow on 08.29.18 at 6:18 pm

Garth , why did you lay into them?

they achieved what they wanted. Full kudos

#22 Dan on 08.29.18 at 6:21 pm

Ultimately, it’s about the lifestyle. People who think 50 grand a year in spending is not enough will not be able to FIRE.

#23 Vancouver Brit on 08.29.18 at 6:22 pm

#13 Nonplused on 08.29.18 at 6:00 pm

How on earth can 2 people expect to retire at 30 on a paltry million bucks? Even at 5% that’s only $50 grand a year. That ain’t much now and in 30 years when the price of everything has doubled it won’t be much at all.
___________________________________________

You obviously don’t understand anything about it. Trust me, I’ve been reading about FIRE for years now and $1,000,000 is more than enough, and I question Garth when he says you can’t survive a lifetime on it. Sure, you will have to restrict your luxuries in life, but FIRE motivated people have been doing that for years anyway in order to reach it.

Are you telling me there isn’t anywhere in Canada you can survive on for $4,200 a month as a couple of people with no children? Even WITH children it is easily doable. Sure, you can’t live in YVR or Toronto, but you can live in most of the country just fine on that. Rent in most places is $1,000 a month or less for an apartment. So, $3,000. That’s easily enough to live off of for the remaining expenses.

You do also realize that portfolios grow over time? Their $1,000,000 was already over $1.25 million like a year or two after retiring despite drawing down on it. The whole purpose of the 4% rule is to negate inflation, but maybe you don’t even know what the 4% rule is. In 30 years their $1,000,000 could easily be a few million more.

#24 re., dirty debtor on 08.29.18 at 6:23 pm

Watching my parents (60s) retire has been a big lesson. They have nothing left. I can see when you get old, work and purpose is very important to your mental health.

……….

take a bow. Absolutely

#25 Spiacog on 08.29.18 at 6:24 pm

As a member of generation X, the FIRE movement is possible with some sacrifices. 1 million, using the 4% rule will generate an income of 40k and keep up with inflation if well diversified. The sacrifice, cannot live in a big city, move to a small town in the maritimes and grow your own food. The major costs in life of housing and food taken care of, one now has the time to pursue their passion and not be limited to work for the basic needs. Maybe event be part of a community instead of arriving home burnt and trying to keep up with the Joneses.

#26 robert james on 08.29.18 at 6:24 pm

9 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 08.29.18 at 5:46 pm…… This Shyster is for you ,Happy Crash.. https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/235141/No-jail-for-creep-realtor

#27 Honey Dripper on 08.29.18 at 6:26 pm

It is crazy how mills think. I cheated and left the workforce @60 and some call that cheating.
Teach the kiddos to apply for government jobs. That’s where the pensions are at, never mind DIY and blogging. Healthcare specifically now get out of the basement!

#28 Epictetus on 08.29.18 at 6:38 pm

Garth wrote :
“Really smart people spend their lives doing what they want, erasing that line between work and the rest. Retirement for them is irrelevant.”

Dusty wrote :
“Instead of trying to retire early or quitting jobs to go backpacking or “doing Europe”, why don’t we build lives that we don’t want to escape from?”

TOO MUCH WIDSOM! I LOVE THIS BLOG!!!

#29 pay your taxes on 08.29.18 at 6:39 pm

#9 Happy Housing Crash

We don’t need no water let the mother SHYSTER burn
Burn mother SHYSTER burn. Going to be fun watching the SHYSTERS in the FIRE sector burn.

Xxxxxxxxxx

You’ve got to be a certain vintage to know that song. I worked in a funk club in the mid 80s and that’s the only place I ever heard it.

As for FIRE, it’s about doing what you love and being free from punching a clock or licking the fingers of the man. I don’t think it was ever about lying around all day smoking dope and eating Cheetos. Most of the adherents are STEM majors. Hey! Maybe that’s M**k’s gig! He’s a swashbuckling independent man of means, not a George Costanza living in his parents’ basement.

#30 Linda on 08.29.18 at 6:40 pm

Nothing wrong with the concept of FIRE, except that I think most want to have it & not have to deal with the pesky problem of achieving it. I totally get that working for a living is not fun UNLESS you are doing what you totally love & are being paid living wages to do it. Otherwise, it is decades of doing what you must in order to get what you want. Plus having the discipline to set aside funds to build that retiree nest egg.

Millennials, like generations before them, have had enough time to realize that being an adult isn’t all sunshine & fairy dust. Which does explain the very high percentage who continue to live at home, because gig workers wages are usually insufficient to live the lifestyles desired w/o that parentally provided room & board. I do not see a happy outcome here. Yes, there is quite possibly an expectation that when the parents die the child will inherit & all will be well, but that presumes that the child or children will inherit assets & not liabilities. With the growth in HELOC’s & reverse mortgages, I’d say liabilities is the way to bet.

#31 yvr_lurker on 08.29.18 at 6:42 pm

After I’d mopped up the coffee exiting my nose, we continued.

—————-
Now that was funny. Garth could have a good comedic writing gig if this financial advisor stuff doesn’t pan out for him.

Garth, this is where you need to have a big scary dog in your office who, on command, can be triggered to snap at their heels while chasing them down the hallway. I feel like this myself in my University job sometimes with some students who haven’t done their homework for weeks and are so clueless.

How to you start with zip-o in resources (compounded with the elevator not going to the top floor), and expect to be able to have enough to retire on in 7 years. I think they were looking to talk with a magician and not a financial advisor….

#32 Ray on 08.29.18 at 6:44 pm

If you started with $50,000, and grew this at about 35%/ yr for the ten years, you could end up with just over $1,000,000. The trick is that 35%/yr
thing!

#33 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 6:45 pm

@#26 Robert James
“He was also given a $500 fine and ordered to pay a victim surcharge of $150.’
+++++

Wow!
The Canadian judicial system once again throws fear into the hearts of criminals everywhere……..

#34 Where's The Money Greedo? on 08.29.18 at 6:47 pm

More scathing info on money laundering at Great Canadian Casino’s River Rock Casino.
They should also be including the Hard Rock Casino, another GCC entity where I personally witnessed laundering and nothing being done by security.
I watched for 2 hours ( a whole NFL football game) as 2 ladies stuffed the one armed “bandits” while spinning the wheels once every 15 minutes, not even looking if they won or not, just talking to each other. I couldn’t believe the size of their purses. They must have had $100k in them at least. All watched by security who acknowledged to me that they knew and were going to do nothing.
Now Ontario has this company running most of your casinos.
Better buy now as this money laundering will go into housing, just like it’s proven in BC. More than enough evidence here, include the links to get the big picture.
BC’s been a haven for money laundering since at least 2012, just when the properties here started to go up and fully ballistic in 2015.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4328072/canadian-bc-casino-link-vip-hong-kong-tycoon-investigation/
https://globalnews.ca/news/4401905/river-rock-casino-employees-may-shred-large-cash-transaction-records/
https://globalnews.ca/news/4149818/vancouver-cautionary-tale-money-laundering-drugs/
There is now talk of the Asian gangs pressuring legit businesses to take their laundry with threats.
River Rock will not let any employee speak with reporters.
Proof right there.
People should be in jail over this, including previous and present BC Liberals and casino workers/managers!

#35 BlogDog123 on 08.29.18 at 6:48 pm

Who doesn’t dream of retiring early? No more bosses giving you arbitrary paper chasing orders. Ticking boxes. Pointless meetings.

Now some people go nuts without the structure of the workplace routines. Until they figure out the right mix of hobbies, social meet-ups, side-jobs, and how to relax.

I remember being “in between jobs” and going looney waiting for the employer’s start date, knowing my friends were all at work M-F 9-5. No Jerry Springer or “have you been injured” infomercials for me…

#36 My Big Sister Told Me on 08.29.18 at 6:48 pm

For those who find work stressful? well keep in mind that stress is manageable, poverty… not so much.

Chasing FIRE is chasing a false idol as far I am concerned.

#37 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 6:50 pm

One wonders when the horrified dawning realization in Moisters occurs…..
When they turn 40 and have diddley squat?
When they turn 50 and their parents cant financially rescue them ?
When they are 60 and THEIR 30 something kids are living with them?

Karma is a bitch not a beach…….

#38 @careeraftschool on 08.29.18 at 6:54 pm

Interesting clients! I usually tell people to figure their net income first. So gross salary is $85k – income taxes, work related expenses (second car, gas and clothes) and extra family expenses because of work (daycare and tutoring)= $30k net.

It might make more sense to take a low paying part time or seasonal job close to home with lots of flexibility then quitting all together. Painters and Landscapers are two professions that come to mind.

#39 Hawk on 08.29.18 at 7:01 pm

Meanwhile ……..half the citizenry can’t come up with 200 bucks in event of unforeseen issues.

#40 After Communism on 08.29.18 at 7:01 pm

In a socialist country the marginal tax on middle income labour is very high. It is 41% for Canada if you include the two income taxes and HST and property tax. Therefore, DIY is a credible path; ie. earn less because DIY is non-taxable high earnings per hour.

You get all the education/healthcare communist side of the economy whether you work for a wage or not, plus you get into a low income where you get all the kick-backs on property tax, free electricity, and HST rebate, OAS which is all helpful. It is a new unexpected lifestyle choice, designed by the equalitarian globalist ideologues. They thought people were all the same and would choose better.

Education and healthcare, although second-world quality, you can get by on, especially when you are young. The feminist go-getters have all the glory in the office jobs, they think.

All of it is tearing our country to pieces.

#41 Cristian on 08.29.18 at 7:05 pm

Any online retirement calculator demonstrates that it’s impossible to retire at 30 with a million dollar and have it last for the rest of one’s life (not to mention a couple’s life). Even if one were to live on the income only, the principal will continue to erode until it becomes irrelevant in 25-30 years. And who wants to look for a job at age 60, without any work experience for the past 30 years?
No wonder the couple of “retirees” got back to work, they probably figured out in the mean time that the money is not going to last long.

#42 Joe on 08.29.18 at 7:06 pm

Hey Garth, I’ve been eagerly anticipating the release of sales data but little is forthcoming. I go to a site like zoocasa, for instance, and it gives price history for maybe 1 in 100 places. For the other 99 it’s “no data available.” (Competitor sites are the same.) What gives?

#43 Xpat on 08.29.18 at 7:13 pm

Chase your passions when you’re young and throw all the time you have at them. Gotta work some too. Save as much as possible. Invest a lot. Who gives a crap about keepin up with the Joneses – no one cares about you anyways.

I’m pretty sure when I make it to 65 I’ll probably WANT to work part time. Likely all the rock climbing and Harley road trips are better done before your 60’s so by that point I’ll be a bit bored and greeting you at Walmart might be the high point of my day

#44 Freebird on 08.29.18 at 7:16 pm

Ive sent other mills we know to your client’s website in hopes of detering house/condo buying. Fingers crossed. This doc film gives one view of the future global economy around social media/YT based self employment etc and key roles of gen Y/Z by social/economic theorist Jeremy Rifkin. Agree or disagree it’s a may be worth a watch for future FIRE clients and wannabes. There’s a book too but mills will go to YT first.

https://youtu.be/QX3M8Ka9vUA

#45 Vancouver Brit on 08.29.18 at 7:19 pm

#41 Cristian on 08.29.18 at 7:05 pm
Any online retirement calculator demonstrates that it’s impossible to retire at 30 with a million dollar and have it last for the rest of one’s life (not to mention a couple’s life)
___________________________________________

Would love to see the assumptions you used in this calculator, as it is way off. You don’t need a retirement calculator, the rule of 4% is enough https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-percent-rule.asp

If you stick to the 4% withdrawal rate, a 30 year retirement has a 95% success rate (defined as having a portfolio large enough to cover your expenses the entire time). A 60 year retirement has an 83% success rate. Run the numbers yourself if you like: https://www.firecalc.com/

#46 NoName on 08.29.18 at 7:20 pm

Now that mill rev was mentioned, I remember on their blog them exploring Greece, santoriny island. I remember telling my fife ill take you there, maybe if i sell kids to the traveling circus when it comes to town we will have time and money to go. So all that got me thinking why did Greece went kaboom.

Popular belief was (mine) probably other peoples too, that lavish gov benefit, underground economy, hiding taxes, gov expenditure and this and that. I looked at numbers around the average Greek worked more hours than average German or any oecd citizen, gov expenditure was around 22% comperable to other eu countries.

Until adapting euro interest rates in greece were around 20% so people or anyone with half brain stayed away from loans, until euro came in and interest rate went down to 7% so everyone pilled on debt, like there is no tomorow, than 2008 came, private and corporate deliquency went from 5% to mid 30%.

Now i know what tipped the scale, loan delikvency…

#47 Doug t on 08.29.18 at 7:20 pm

FIRE in the hole – unicorns and rainbows

RATM

#48 Ogopogo on 08.29.18 at 7:21 pm

I love my job too much for FIRE, but I do seek FI. FI is the true measure of “FU money” (FU as an adjective, for those not in the know). I dig the Millennial Revolution blog. She’s feisty and a committed renter, like me, laughing in the face of those who are too financially illiterate to see the financial beauty of being a renter-investor.

Imagine if the idea catches on. Boomers will be so screwed…

Why? – Garth

#49 Reximus on 08.29.18 at 7:25 pm

I watched for 2 hours ( a whole NFL football game) as 2 ladies stuffed the one armed “bandits” while spinning the wheels once every 15 minutes, not even looking if they won or not, just talking to each other. I couldn’t believe the size of their purses. They must have had $100k in them at least. All watched by security who acknowledged to me that they knew and were going to do nothing.

====

so where’s the crime in this…they pump a slot machine with coins/tokens until they lose all their money?

And the Global story about the casino shredding cash receipts for transactions under $10,000 CAD is dumb because casinos aren’t required to get ID info for those amts. The receipts they are talking about contain NO client info, and the transaction record is filed on computer, the paper receipt is irrelevant.

It’s the PCMLTFA regs that they should be complaining about, the casino isn’t doing anything illegal or even incorrect, even if the news agency wants it to seem so.

#50 Mattl on 08.29.18 at 7:26 pm

I think the FIRE peeps are seriously underestimating what it will cost to play out the string. How far is 1mm going to go when you are 50 and rents are 5k a month? What happens when we go through a period of slow or no growth? All these FIRE goombas have only seen post 2008 rockey ship growth. Are they going to hold firm when their portfolio loses 10-20 points and stagnates for 3-5? The last 10 years are an outlier, markets have gone more then a decade flat….i’m 100% confident I can average 7% after fees but have no confidence that there won’t be lean years to balance the hot ones. Not contributing during down cycles seems like a recipe for bankruptcy.

#51 Danny on 08.29.18 at 7:29 pm

Yes Garth as you said…”until Doug Ford arrived”.

Taking us back to those medieval and dark ages….when the little guy was actually smaller..less than 5 feet tall.

Don’t talk about sex in school…….as if a moron like Doug is going to stop the Internet.

And for the brilliant statement…by Ford..”I remember when beer was a buck.”

Well I remember the 5 and 10 cents stores…they also are not coming back.

Thank you conservatives for picking a male high school flunky …when you had a chance of picking at least two women for leader whose brain cells are firing properly.

Hold on because demolition Doug is just starting….had to have his minister say that the Ontario Government believes in climate change….because he couldn’t…looked like he was going to choke today….or he had a brain freeze.

The Doug Ford era will be a mess just like the Rob Ford era was…….and on top of that….a historic high for lawsuits against the government at tax payers expense.

So much for reducing the cost of government!

#52 Adam on 08.29.18 at 7:29 pm

What a pile of crap. FIRE is definitely a growing movement. But it has nothing to do with people wanting a guaranteed basic income (let alone is that “central to it”) nor is big government. FIRE is about extremely high savings rates, living substantially below your means and being content with forgetting about people judging you for renting, or not having granite, or driving a 20 year old car.

But it fits really good with your narrative, Garth, if you say the millienials want a guaranteed basic income.

#53 Scott Hanson on 08.29.18 at 7:30 pm

I am a musician and house painter and make quite a good living every year. I made as low as $55,000 one year and $85,000 the highest year.

I am now 28 and have done this for 9 years now and have no debt, $50,000 in TFSA’s, $102,700 in RRSP’s and $125,000 in my dividend stocks and corporate bonds. I have tracked my investments every month and about $1,200 a month in mostly dividends, some interest.

I have in been in the gig economy for years and have done just great. Do a great job and word of month, referrals just keep my income growing.

#54 Adam on 08.29.18 at 7:32 pm

Further, FIRE is also not about retiring, it’s about doing what you want with your life rather than doing whatever can get you a good paycheque, whether you like doing it or not.

Those two clients who are working far more hours now? It’s because they want to work far more hours, they’re doing it for themselves, not for somebody else.

#55 TS on 08.29.18 at 7:36 pm

Why judge if they can pull it off Garth? The numbers aren’t voodoo magic. Median family income in Canada is 70k. After tax, you probably get to keep around 50k. To those crying that this is abject poverty, that is what half the population of one of the richest countries in the world lives off. It isn’t that hard. For the last 50 years, the TSX or S&P returns around 10% and investment income is taxed much more favorably. So even if the market returns half the long term average, you are still taking home more than what most of the working stiffs make.

To get there isn’t rocket science either. Your average STEM job will pay 6 figures. Hook up with another STEMer and you’re making 200k+. All you have to do is live like an average Joe for 6 or 7 years and then you can do whatever you want include work if that is what rocks your boat.

#56 rknusa on 08.29.18 at 7:37 pm

re: #53 Scott Hanson on 08.29.18 at 7:30 pm

I am a musician and house painter and make quite a good living every year. I made as low as $55,000 one year and $85,000 the highest year.

————————————————

Dude, you forgot to add the part about living in your parent’s basement

that is hardly being an adult

#57 Wrk.dover on 08.29.18 at 7:55 pm

Interest from a million dollar GIC will only buy them each a pack of old school tobacco smokes every day. That is all it calculates to.

The soon to be coming to a govt store near you, smokes must cost even more than that. Uh oh…..

That is why they came to you Garth! They need some roof and food money along with an increased smoking allowance out of the same million, properly invested for real.

Perhaps they can loan the million to yesterdays couple, and be their surrogate children, expense free.

#58 Dale Brackard on 08.29.18 at 8:00 pm

Socialism will always fail and it is just perfect timing how Venezuela citizens were all tricked into the same false, utopia, paradise of free education, free benefits, more free stuff and they are collapsing more and more. Our beloved media will not report this failure and many past failures as they are all in fantasy land.

#59 Canada=Poor cousin of rich U.S on 08.29.18 at 8:00 pm

Canada will give in for NAFTA. Never ever bet against United States. Hopefully the Canadians will now be able eat more eggs and afford milk at reduced prices. Thanks to Trump! I know Canadians always need a few extra coins in their pockets. Its very expensive to live there and almost no disposable income left after taxes and bills.

#60 Spock on 08.29.18 at 8:07 pm

#34 Where’s The Money Greedo? on 08.29.18 at 6:47 pm

So it is a crime to spin the wheel every 15 minutes while talking to each other. Maybe the crime was that you being so nosy in other peoples affairs.

From the size of the ladies purse you were able to make out that they had $100K in them. What a gong show.

If you make up stories at least let them be believable. Security does not care about you or other patrons. They are there to protect the patrons not to watch if they are spinning the wheel every 5 minutes or half an hour and have a big purse or small purse.

Reality is you were probably the loser on the other machine and jealous of the ladies around you who had money left after you were done with yours.

There is no requirement for paperwork under $10K and it is not a crime to shred said paperwork. GC does say they have electronic copies.

Great Canadian Gaming is not the regulator. They followed the rules. If you do not like the rules complain to the regulators to change the rules instead of making up stories.

It does look from the reporting that Global News has a bias against Great Canadian Gaming (maybe paid by the shorters). There is a story for you.

————————————–

#34 Where’s The Money Greedo? on 08.29.18 at 6:47 pm
More scathing info on money laundering at Great Canadian Casino’s River Rock Casino.
They should also be including the Hard Rock Casino, another GCC entity where I personally witnessed laundering and nothing being done by security.
I watched for 2 hours ( a whole NFL football game) as 2 ladies stuffed the one armed “bandits” while spinning the wheels once every 15 minutes, not even looking if they won or not, just talking to each other. I couldn’t believe the size of their purses. They must have had $100k in them at least. All watched by security who acknowledged to me that they knew and were going to do nothing.
Now Ontario has this company running most of your casinos.

#61 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 08.29.18 at 8:08 pm

pay your taxes on 08.29.18 at 6:39 pm
#9 Happy Housing Crash

We don’t need no water let the mother SHYSTER burn
Burn mother SHYSTER burn. Going to be fun watching the SHYSTERS in the FIRE sector burn.

Xxxxxxxxxx

You’ve got to be a certain vintage to know that song. I worked in a funk club in the mid 80s and that’s the only place I ever heard it.

As for FIRE, it’s about doing what you love and being free from punching a clock or licking the fingers of the man. I don’t think it was ever about lying around all day smoking dope and eating Cheetos. Most of the adherents are STEM majors. Hey! Maybe that’s M**k’s gig! He’s a swashbuckling independent man of means, not a George Costanza living in his parents’ basement.

______________________________________
I am referring to the fake SHYSTER Economy based on SHYSTERS selling RE, mortgage SHYSTERS and all the SHYSTERS in between. To be honest I didnt even read the blog before I posted . Never heard about the other FIRE but not being a puppet and doing what you want is priceless

#62 Long-Time Lurker on 08.29.18 at 8:12 pm

Everything old is new again.

I read about “Financially Independent and Retire Early” in the ’90s. A couple named Dominguez and Robin wrote a book called, “Your Money or Your Life.” Their strategy was to save up money and buy long-term US T-Bills. This worked before interest rates dropped to near zero.

#63 Mattl on 08.29.18 at 8:12 pm

This notion that FIRE people are only working for themselves is laughable. And everyone is working for someone else unless you own the whole supply chain.

When I mow the lawn or fix car I’m working for myself. Everything else is a job , including blogging, giving speaches or framing part time.

We are all working for money. If you would do it for free then sure you are working for yourself but who paint the neighbors house for free?

Retired means not working for money, full stop

#64 SoggyShorts on 08.29.18 at 8:12 pm

#28 Epictetus on 08.29.18 at 6:38 pm
Garth wrote :
“Really smart people spend their lives doing what they want, erasing that line between work and the rest. Retirement for them is irrelevant.”

Dusty wrote :
“Instead of trying to retire early or quitting jobs to go backpacking or “doing Europe”, why don’t we build lives that we don’t want to escape from?”

TOO MUCH WIDSOM! I LOVE THIS BLOG!!!
****************************
That’s a lovely sentiment, but it’s not super easy to find work doing what you love to the point where you’d rather not retire.

My job is “OK” but the hours and pay are “awesome” which was the best deal I could find for work life balance.
Maybe there was something out there where the job was “awesome” and the pay was”OK” that could have made me happy(happier?) , but I didn’t see it.

FWIW I’m late Gen X, and plan to join FIRE in a couple years.. but I’m going to cheat and do it in Asia.

M38AB

#65 tcc to Van Brit on 08.29.18 at 8:13 pm

FIRECalc Results

“Your spending in every year after the first year will be adjusted for inflation, so the spending power is preserved.

FIRECalc looked at the 98 possible 50 year periods in the available data, starting with a portfolio of $2,500,000 and spending your specified amounts each year thereafter.

Here is how your portfolio would have fared in each of the 98 cycles. The lowest and highest portfolio balance at the end of your retirement was $-238,693 to $50,926,900, with an average at the end of $13,992,339. (Note: this is looking at all the possible periods; values are in terms of the dollars as of the beginning of the retirement period for each cycle.)

For our purposes, failure means the portfolio was depleted before the end of the 50 years. FIRECalc found that 1 cycles failed, for a success rate of 99.0%.”

Hmmm, I like these numbers! Thx Vancouver Brit.

TCC

#66 Ace Goodheart on 08.29.18 at 8:16 pm

Re: The FIRE kids:

They have a couple of problems with their plan.

Firstly as you correctly point out, a million isn’t enough to retire on. Their portfolio isn’t keeping up with inflation.

Secondly, their brand. Yes It’s cool to retire at 30. But They’re now 33. While that’s still kinda cool, once they’re pushing 40 It’s over. A couple of 40 something’s travelling around Europe and Asia, living in air b&b and walking everywhere to avoid bus fare, is not cool or unique or worth writing about.

You can’t sell a blog with a boomer couple backpacking through Europe, for example. No one cares.

They face the familiar child actor problem. Home Alone is only fun if the star is a kid. Once he grows up he is no longer cute (or an A list actor).

It is much harder to sell yourself as you get older. You become part of the greying, decaying masses. Nothing you do is cool anymore.

Young people can get away with murder that way.

They will likely have to come back to North America and find jobs.

So much for the revolution….

#67 Squirrel For Dinner on 08.29.18 at 8:22 pm

Building a viable business based on speaking and intellectual property is hard – even harder now T2 and his band of muppets is in charge. Roll on the next election. I moved a chunk of my business south of the border – rules are just as restrictive, but so much more money floating around down there. I dont understand why working has gotten such a bad rap. I love what I do, and worked really fricking hard to get into that situation. No-one gave me a thing I didnt earn – no parent money, no gifts. Work hard every day and good things happen. In other cultures work is a good and noble thing. Have we really self-actualized to the point where we think its beneath us? To quote someone I hate to quote. “So sad…”

#68 pay your taxes on 08.29.18 at 8:22 pm

#59
Canada will give in for NAFTA

Not unless Mad Max wins. Trudeau and Scheer are deeply and unabashedly in the pockets of the supply management cartel. Canadians are the only people in the world who are stupid enough to fight for higher prices and fewer choices. Taxi cartels, ‘supply management”, oligopolies on just about everything else that matters to consumers. A strange collection of people we have here.

#69 BS on 08.29.18 at 8:23 pm

If you have a $1 million at age 30 you can retire, live a boring life in some hick town, wondering daily if you are going to make ends meet with little hope of getting back into the workforce after 5 years.

Or, you can keep working, invest the $1 million, not touch it, and in 20 years have $4 million to retire in style at age 50. You don’t have to save another dime which means over that 20 years you can take longer vacations, not worry about buying an overpriced house and live a better life than trying to scrape by on $40k per year.

Compare the 2 above:

A) 60 years of $40k per year income not working or

B) 20 years of say $100K per year income working, then 40 years of $160k per year income, not working.

With A you would have $2.4M over your lifetime to spend. With B you you would have $8.4 million. All for 20 years of work. That 20 years of work at $100K per year was really worth $300K per year.

#70 Long-Time Lurker on 08.29.18 at 8:25 pm

I didn’t keep the article but in it I read that US non-labour business costs are growing faster than labour costs which likely means inflation is roaring in the US. Jay Powell might have to raise interest rates faster than he’s imagining. That article might have been on ZeroHedge.

#71 akashic record on 08.29.18 at 8:31 pm

There is a major deterioration across the board, moving this country towards third world performance. Not that it is reflected negatively on corporate earnings.

This is within a week:

– Big Six bank cancels personal line of credit account, linked to checking account for overdraft protection, without any notice.

– When calling them, they say it was cancelled, “because you never used it”. Someone will call from the branch to discuss in 24-48 hours.

– The “cancelled ” account still linked to my online banking, shows credit limit, rate. Out of curiosity I transfer over a couple of bucks. Not shy to accept it. Reverse transaction fails, though. Fake dead account.

– A week later I make the follow up call for the Big Six bank, they obviously switched to IKEA banking, but failed to send the memo. Phone banking associate doesn’t waste time with excuses, quickly offers a solution: she would be happy to link the overdraft protection to my high interest reward credit card. As if I was playing along, I ask how it works. “Very convenient”. Since she fails to mention, I have to ask for tiny details: would it be considered a cash withdrawal transaction. “Ah that… yeah, for sure.” She is really insulted though by my response: “that’s an insane idea”.
“I wouldn’t use that word, lots of people do that. It’s not nice to talk about them like that”. I am not talking about the persons, but the idea, I say loud and clear for the recording and decline the kind offer, what a couple of decade long customer qualifies for. Maybe that’s what puts her in a charity mode, she offers to transfer back right now the couple of test bucks to the checking account. Hold on a minute… OK, all done. She promises that she puts an express notice to the branch manager to call me about the ploc and asks if there was anything else she could help me with.

– High interest reward card is showing 2 x $1K cash withdrawal from UK, dated on the day when hackers warned to attack ATMs around the world. First IKEA Big Six banking tries to launch an investigation, whether I am an online gambler. For the investigator it needs to be explained that these are not vendor charges, but cash withdrawals in the UK, with associated service fees, listed. They also happen to be embedded with legit charges within hours in Canada. At this point they offer full refund.

– Global Company is sending an engineer for on-site service. In the afternoon we agree next day, between 9-10 AM. Around 9 the engineer calls to set up an appointment, as if nothing happened a day before. “Ah… I didn’t know”. At least later in the afternoon he shows up.

– Next day around noon email from Global Company, they let me know that the engineer is dispatched later the day, urgent confirmation is needed for access on premises.

-The email from the Global Company to confirm the future date of the past service visit reminds me that 3 days later on top of a week, Big Six bank still hasn’t called about the cancelled personal line of credit. Out of curiosity I check online the balance of the cancelled account… yep… the couple of test transfer bucks are still sitting there. Maybe I give an extra day to verify that the $2K fraudulent charge was cleared.

I can only imagine how things are done these days with small sh!thole companies in Canada.

#72 BS on 08.29.18 at 8:34 pm

Central to it (until Doug Ford arrived) was the notion of a guaranteed annual income – a basic amount every citizen would receive for, well, citizenship.

I just don’t understand how the lefties think this could actually work. Not only do you have to pay the people who currently are not working more (and encourage them to continue not working) you will attract more people to “not work” collecting money from the government rather than working and paying taxes to the government.

It has to be the dumbest of all ideas the left has come up with. And that is saying a lot. Even with communism you were supposed to work.

#73 Smoking Man on 08.29.18 at 8:37 pm

Posable good shorting opportunity if Nafta deal happens.

Saputo Inc

#74 Interstellar Old Yeller on 08.29.18 at 8:37 pm

FIRE is a real thing if you have the self-restraint to save and invest. Sounds like you’re getting approached by lots of dreamers who aren’t familiar with that.

I’m following the approach of FIRE-chasers who accumulate a good portion of their goal number, then move towards a more satisfying life (new work they like better or fewer hours, more time for family and health, volunteer pursuits, hobbies). It sounds great to be retired early, but you still need to know what to do with yourself. We won’t be financially independent in our 30s but we will live a happier, more meaningful life sooner and for longer.

#75 arfmoocat on 08.29.18 at 8:39 pm

Father is 95, him and mom went into a seniors home this year.

Bottom line of the story… he’s milked that pension longer then the 35 years he worked for the company.

#76 Canada=Poor cousin of rich U.S on 08.29.18 at 8:40 pm

@ #68

>Canadians are the only people in the world who are stupid enough to fight for higher prices and fewer choices<<

I agree. Its more of Gougeland. Even you guys have to pay for a petty plastic bag. They are almost see through and people will be happy to pay. Can never happen in U.S. Consumers will revolt.

#77 re., rknusa on 08.29.18 at 8:46 pm

Dude, you forgot to add the part about living in your parent’s basement

that is hardly being an adult

………

only in N American is living with our parents longer shamed

#78 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 8:53 pm

@#52 Adam
“FIRE is about extremely high savings rates, living substantially below your means and being content with forgetting about people judging you for renting, or not having granite, or driving a 20 year old car.”
+++++

“FIRE” ?
Gee, what’s old is “new” again.
I believe in my generation people that lived like that ….. were called “frugal”

#79 Adam on 08.29.18 at 9:06 pm

#69 BS

What’s 20 years of doing whatever it is that you want to do with your life worth to you?

Garth is the one who says it all the time, yet apparently doesn’t mind completely contradicting his own advice, the most precious asset anyone has is time. Not working 8 hours a day for, say, 48 weeks a year over 20 years is priceless to me, to you, those 20 years are apparently worth 3 million bucks.

There are many ways of wasting time. – Garth

#80 yorkville renter on 08.29.18 at 9:07 pm

#58 – virtually every country has some form of socialism at play… even the good ol’ USA – Medicare, Welfare, etc.

You’re cherry picking the worst example.

As for the topic at hand, personally, I’d rather work and be busy to 50 and enjoy life along the way vs scrimping for a decade or more to be bored by 35…

When I was unemployed for a month the first few weeks were cool, but with my friends at work all day, it quickly got boring…

#81 I run this basement on 08.29.18 at 9:10 pm

I don’t pay taxes. I run the basement. People often use my example as a way to insult people.

I just bought a new shovel for all the cash I need to tuck away. I have averaged 43k in savings per year for the last 11 years.

Freedom 45 baby coming my way.

Great income. Used to work corporate, now work straight out of the basement, which is above ground btw. Zero expenses. Housing and property taxes are a scam. Once the folks need help. My portfolio is ready to pitch in.

Until then, I keep shoveling.

#82 barnz0rz on 08.29.18 at 9:17 pm

I love this chick! “I have zero savings and kids but we’re going to retire in 7 years”. Between paying off debt and scraping savings, I’ve lived pretty minimalist over the last 14 years and I’m not even in the realm of thinking about it. Millennial expectations leave me speechless sometimes

#83 Shortymac on 08.29.18 at 9:17 pm

Wait you see people with no money banked? I thought the limit was 200k saved before you could get a financial advice sitdown.

I have 55k saved that I’m looking to invest and need someone to manage it.

I talk to everyone. – Garth

#84 Financial Orchid on 08.29.18 at 9:22 pm

As a millennial I spewed with laughter the moment you “cleaned up coffee exiting your nose”.

Step 1: How much is said millennial spending last year and on track to spend this year?

Step 2: Is that under 4% of millennial’s investable net worth?

No? Go back to work and head back to Step 1.

You do not get to collect $200.

#85 Canada=Poor cousin of rich U.S on 08.29.18 at 9:34 pm

Garth,

Did you tell Brittany to go south? She can fulfill her dreams if she play it right.

#86 Willy H on 08.29.18 at 9:39 pm

Having observed (and supervised) Millennials and Gen Y in the workplace I can make few generalizations.*

When deciding how to balance work and life they always go with life. There is no concept of work/life balance – life wins every time for most of these folks.

> They cannot be relied upon to show up at work at critical times.
> They spend way too much time on their phones (or the company computer!) addicted to social networking during work hours.
> Absolutely no concept of the notion of hard work.
> A built-in sense of entitlement, a result of shitty parenting.

The buffoons who thought the Millennials would be our next “Greatest Generation” were deluded. The Greatest Generation survived the Great Depression and helped the west to win a World War with blood, sweat and tears. Their sons and daughters were sacrificed for our freedom. There is no app for that!

*Not all these folks are addicted to their smartphones and counting up sick days they have left to take. A sizable minority are excellent workers.

#87 garth fan on 08.29.18 at 9:44 pm

#66 Ace Goodheart on 08.29.18 at 8:16 pm

According the FIRE lady’s linkedin page (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristy-shen-2804909/) she started her degree in 2001. Presumably she started university at age 19, so that means she was born in 1982. So…she’s 36 now…not 31 or 32.

#88 AlbertaGuy in AB on 08.29.18 at 9:49 pm

if the FIREstarters had they purchased 1M WEED.TO in sep 2015 they would have 30M today

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/WEED/kH74Irj2-WEED-UP-3000-since-2015/

#89 [email protected] on 08.29.18 at 9:52 pm

Canada, U.S. planning all-night NAFTA negotiations as optimism for a deal grows

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/freeland-nafta-lighthizer-washington-1.4802992

Does this send the correct message? Mexico had months to come to an agreement and Canada has to pull all nighters to finalize by this Friday? Comments?

#90 Willy H on 08.29.18 at 9:55 pm

#68 pay your taxes on 08.29.18 at 8:22 pm

…. Canadians are the only people in the world who are stupid enough to fight for higher prices and fewer choices. Taxi cartels, ‘supply management”, oligopolies on just about everything else that matters to consumers. …
__ __ __ __

I guess you forgot about the 20 billion in subsidies for farmers in the USA paid for the US tax payer!

Canadians pay the full cost of butter and milk under our quota system and Americans pay much less only because US government subsidies are coming out of their taxes.

This debate cannot be reduced down to some populist Palinism.

#91 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 9:59 pm

“There are many ways of wasting time. – Garth”
+++++

I’m verifiable proof !

#92 Entrepreneur on 08.29.18 at 10:01 pm

Noticed rental housing are up for sale, at a lower price. Have they received special notice of the downturn coming up?

BC wildfires should be a wake-up call. Just keep on planting those trees, keep shipping those raw logs, keep ignoring the people within borders.

And the news said that the glaciers are melting and the mining industry see minerals. Really and how sad!

As for the next federal election I look at it this way: Who in their right mind would vote for T2. Singh is low in the polls, takes months to respond on issues. Scheer may get more votes because of the “no carbon tax” but well rehearsed. All three are young, 39,39,46.

Whereas Maxime Bernier is 55, an entrepreneur, lifelong experiences, mature to handle the position of PM. And he is speaking up for all Canadians. Wonder what the name of the party is?

#93 ulsterman on 08.29.18 at 10:07 pm

@13 Nonplused

I mean a million bucks is a great start at 30 but it isn’t enough to live on for the rest of your life anymore. 35 years from now that $50,000 a year will have the buying power of $25,000 a year today

I agree there’s a lot that go wrong with this couple’s plan but if they invest their $1m in some banks or utilities paying around 5% most are also growing their dividends by 3-6%/years, hence the payout keeps pace or exceeds inflation. So the $50k may in fact be worth proportionately MORE than $50k today, 35 years from now.

Also, they can income split this so it will all be tax free. They’re probably better off reading International Living magazine and finding a place in Asia or Central America where they can live for $30-40k/yr. I agree, in Canada it doesn’t seem possible without really scrimping and then, well, what’s the point?

#94 Lee on 08.29.18 at 10:10 pm

I hope to retire at 70. Probably be dead at 73.

#95 victor majid on 08.29.18 at 10:15 pm

Immigration is less than 1% of the population annually and the median income is less than $35,000 for new arrivals. They are not responsible for $1.16 million average detached prices in the GTA. – Garth
————————————————-
Math considerations…if half of 1% of Canadian population (target immigration), or 340,000 people immigrate to Toronto, that is significant.
That is about an increase of 6% per year in Toronto. That will affect prices and the demand for housing. This will change the city significantly.
————
Consistent with past decades. Makes for a great city. – Garth
—————————————————————
No one is arguing that the population growth does not make a great city, (or in a dumb re-fornulation of that, that Diversity is our strength). You could conversely also argue that because it is a great city, it attracts more people.
However, let’s focus on real estate here. The demand for real estate in Toronto is coming from the immigrants. Every year, if demand for a product goes up by 6%, that will ensure that the price stays high. If there is demand, it will prevent the prices for real estate from falling.
Sadly, people will move several families into a smaller home (living area), and people will get used to smaller living spaces. And then the quality of life in the city goes down. And then people will be less attracted to live there. And only then will prices come down.
Already we are at the point where Canadians who are not living in Toronto already can’t really afford to live there. (And creating “welfare” homes will only confer advantages to those who win the lottery and get to live there- not a good idea).
Do you agree?

#96 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 10:17 pm

@#34 where’s Greedo?
“I watched for 2 hours ( a whole NFL football game) as 2 ladies stuffed the one armed “bandits” while spinning the wheels once every 15 minutes, not even looking if they won or not, just talking to each other…..”
++++

While I agree with a lot of what you have to say.

“not even looking at the slots….”

Is the sign of an experienced slot player.
You dont have to watch.
The machine will, ring, bell, flash lights and gong if you have a win.
Gamblers that spend far too much time in the casino will gravitate to “friends” that they see all the time.
Hence the two ladies talking while playing the slots.
Slots…..a mindless addictive machine designed to suck every last dime out of problem gamblers.

And before anyone asks. I hate gambling.
Never could understand the appeal.
I have two friends that lost everything to slots.
Homes, business, marriage, ev-re-thing to gambling.
Casinos, a revolting last resort by business and govt to suck the last dollar out of the weak.

#97 Canada=Poor cousin of rich U.S on 08.29.18 at 10:30 pm

#81 I run this basement> I feel for you to live this way for the last 11 years of your life for a mere 50 k a year.
Life is short. Have you ever thought about increasing your income? My deepest sympathies.

#98 BS is BS on 08.29.18 at 10:31 pm

Re #72 – “It has to be the dumbest of all ideas the left has come up with. ”

Universal basic income is as much a right-wing idea as it is a left-wing idea. It saves money. Look it up. Milton Friedman. Righties like it because it allows for the dismantling of expensive welfare programs and all the associated overhead. It’s socialist, yet it leads to cost savings and smaller government.

#99 BS on 08.29.18 at 10:34 pm

79 Adam on 08.29.18 at 9:06 pm
#69 BS

What’s 20 years of doing whatever it is that you want to do with your life worth to you?

Problem is with $40k per year in income you don’t have the money to do what you want.

#100 Hawkeye on 08.29.18 at 10:54 pm

Not sure if this is correct but I did read that there is more HELCO loans going out in Canada than mortgage loans how is this possible without some sort of consequences to our financial system.

#101 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 11:10 pm

@#92 Entrepreneur
“Maxime Bernier is 55, an entrepreneur, lifelong experiences, mature to handle the position of PM. And he is speaking up for all Canadians. Wonder what the name of the party is?”
+++++
Bernier speaking for all Canadians?
Hardly.
Lets see shall we?
He waited until the Conservatives were holding their convention in Halifax and then dropped a big steaming turd in the middle of his former party’s lap.

Vindictive would be more like it.
He reminds me of Lucien Bouchard.
A career politician that stabbed leaders in the back and swapped political parties more than he changed wives.

Lets call Bernier’s new party what it is……
the ” Benedict Bouchard Party”…..
for old times sake……..

#102 MF on 08.29.18 at 11:15 pm

AlbertaGuy in AB on 08.29.18 at 9

-But they would have to go back to work when the inevitable collapse comes.

Worthless stock. Garbage company. Garbage industry.

MF

#103 Al on 08.29.18 at 11:20 pm

”But really smart people spend their lives doing what they want, erasing that line between work and the rest. ”

FI is the best way to achieve that. Nobody seeks to FI early to do nothing, but rather to “achieve” whatever it is they really want to achieve in life. A lot of what people truly want to achieve in life doesn’t involve earning money or adapting it to earn money, hence the need for the FI money. I know, strange.

#104 BillyBob on 08.29.18 at 11:26 pm

Instead of trying to retire early or quitting jobs to go backpacking or “doing Europe”, why don’t we build lives that we don’t want to escape from?

====================================

This.

I love my job, flying big airplanes all over the world. Happens that it pays very well.

Yes, I realize not everyone gets to do what they enjoy for a living but why not strive for it a little more rather than living a life of escapist fantasy?

I look forward to going to work and dread the day I set the parking brake for the last time.

#105 PastThePeak on 08.29.18 at 11:26 pm

#50 Mattl on 08.29.18 at 7:26 pm
I think the FIRE peeps are seriously underestimating what it will cost to play out the string. How far is 1mm going to go when you are 50 and rents are 5k a month? What happens when we go through a period of slow or no growth? All these FIRE goombas have only seen post 2008 rockey ship growth. Are they going to hold firm when their portfolio loses 10-20 points and stagnates for 3-5? The last 10 years are an outlier, markets have gone more then a decade flat….i’m 100% confident I can average 7% after fees but have no confidence that there won’t be lean years to balance the hot ones. Not contributing during down cycles seems like a recipe for bankruptcy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This! When I started in the workforce after uni, in ’94, there were some serious up & down years. Late ’90s were overall good, with a few blips. But then came the Dot Com and Telecom meltdowns. Big investment losses, and since that was my industry, I knew tons of people who lost their “high paying STEM jobs”.

Things recovered and were back on track, only to hit 2008/9. Down in the sh*tter again. Over a 15 year period from ’95-’09, tons of volatility, two crashes/recessions, and mediocre overall gains.

The last 9 years have been great. But I have no illusions that the next 9 will provide similar gains. Anyone who is betting on that is likely to lose.

I get the concept FIRE for sure, but for most it isn’t practical in 30s or even 40s. I am looking forward to moving on to a next phase of part time work, but that is likely when I am 55. Am not sure if the FIRE folks are considering marrying, kids, larger house (rented or purchases) to house said, post secondary education, wife’s desire for travel & not living like you are 18, etc.

And BTW, yes STEM jobs often will go over $100k/year (it is my field so I have some insight there), but that is rarely in the first 5-7 years of employment. It is late 30s and 40s when you start to make the good money.

#106 SoggyShorts on 08.29.18 at 11:30 pm

#69 BS on 08.29.18 at 8:23 pm

Your calcs are based on living at least until 90?
I hope that works out for all of us.

I partied away at least a decade, so I’m looking at FIRE-40, so likely 40 years of retirement, not 60. And I just don’t feel like working for half of that.

That said, I’m also aiming a little higher than 1m/40k now.
Maybe 2-4 extra years to aim for 50-60k

#107 Parksville Prankster on 08.29.18 at 11:30 pm

… or you could do as this young man did, retire at 40 (beat his own goal of 45), with about 675K, and write a book about it… what could possibly go wrong?

http://www.canadian-dream-free-at-45.com/2018/08/02/july-2018-net-worth/

#108 Chris on 08.29.18 at 11:38 pm

#victor majid : The demands for houses came from Canadian citizens and not from immigrants. Countless surveys have proved that. Canada alone does have high real estate prices. The prices are high in several countries in Europe, Israel, China, South Korea etc. Even in the US, several cities including San Francisco have seen similar price increases. It has nothing to do with immigration.

#109 BS on 08.29.18 at 11:48 pm

98 BS is BS on 08.29.18 at 10:31 pm
Re #72 – “It has to be the dumbest of all ideas the left has come up with. ”

Universal basic income is as much a right-wing idea as it is a left-wing idea. It saves money. Look it up. Milton Friedman. Righties like it because it allows for the dismantling of expensive welfare programs and all the associated overhead. It’s socialist, yet it leads to cost savings and smaller government.

What Milton Friedman talked about in the 1960s was rolling all social problems into one negative income tax or payment. In order to do this we would be getting rid of things like government subsidized housing, welfare, subsidized daycare, GST rebates, family allowance and dozens of other government programs and rolling them into one cheque for people with low or no income. Yes this could theoretically save money on bureaucracy assuming you do not increase the benefits paid and actually cut all the other programs. This is not what the left is proposing today.

With the lefts basic income plan they are not cutting any of these other programs but significantly increasing and renaming welfare. They are also making it easier to qualify. This would save nothing on “overhead”, but would cost more in benefits paid, keep more people in the program longer, attract more new people to the program and have a consequence of less people working and paying taxes. There are no savings, just massive and unsustainable higher costs and less tax revenue. It does not add up nor make sense. Very different from what Friedman talked about.

#110 fishman on 08.29.18 at 11:55 pm

“gig”,”fire” all crappolla. Get a skill,trade, speciality with certification. Wire, plumb, build, rig,drive a boat,truck,plane with tickets & keep upgrading, forever.
Start piss tests. Keep a log.
The future is in liability. Get in a position where the engineers,govt inspectors,gutless paper pushers can sign off on you. Always remember the true gods to obey without question are insurance companies. Take the responsibility of big f**k ups on your shoulders & off the pencil necks. Make big money.

#111 Damifino on 08.29.18 at 11:57 pm

#94 Lee

I hope to retire at 70. Probably be dead at 73.
———————————

I know folks who are in such poor health and so far in debt they’ll die by 65 and, if they’re lucky, retire at 75.

#112 ContentIn306 on 08.30.18 at 12:19 am

Count me in the smart folks then. I love what I do. The idea for FIRE floats around my 30something crowd often. Selling time is tough for a lot of people. That couple definitely lit up the hopes and dreams club.

That said, I’m on board with GLI/basic income in a big way. A lot of what I do for work puts others out of work. Soon, so will more AI and machine learning. We are going to need to find a way to lift all ships during this transition period. It seems like an option worth investigating.

#113 kommykim on 08.30.18 at 12:48 am

RE:#89 [email protected] on 08.29.18 at 9:52 pm
Does this send the correct message? Mexico had months to come to an agreement and Canada has to pull all nighters to finalize by this Friday? Comments?

===================================

I think that this “pressure” is actually BS. NAFTA is still in effect. The US has to abide by the existing agreement unless they cancel it in writing which they have not done yet:

Article 2205: Withdrawal
A Party may withdraw from this Agreement six months after it provides written notice of withdrawal to the other Parties. If a Party withdraws, the Agreement shall remain in force for the remaining Parties.

So it’s not really Canada who is under the gun, but rather Trump with midterms coming up and the Mexicans with their own change of government in December.

#114 Deplorable Dude on 08.30.18 at 1:13 am

Trudeau is going to bend the knee to Trump with NAFTA..he has no choice, sacrifice the dairy cartel or the auto industry (and the Canadian economy) No brainer.

He’s gonna be a one term PM.

Interesting enough this might actually encourage a growth in our Steel industry with the increase in rules of origin percentage for Car parts., closing the loophole that we currently use to abuse Nafta rules of origin.

New rules are 75% of parts made in Nth America…..we bypass the rules of origin with chinese made auto steel and electronics….which don’t currently have to be counted against foreign %.

#115 Fem Paying Attention on 08.30.18 at 1:22 am

When Garth’s two FIRE clients first started their website, where they starting providing ill-guided, overly simplistic ‘advice’, I couldn’t believe people were actually buying into what they had to say.

Living off $40-$50k yearly, traveling around, living in hostels and watching every penny is not my idea of a comfortable ‘retirement’. No home base in Canada without the help of family and friends? Give me a break, these two haven’t made it.

I think their arrogance and self-righteousness is what turned me most most off…sorry, but avoiding real estate and instead, making investments into low risk equities doesn’t make you a guru of anything. So what if they live abroad and don’t have a mortgage? Canada is a great, beautiful country and many of us accept the cost of living here, because we wouldn’t want to leave our family, friends, and everything this nation has to offer.

No, I’m not jealous. I too could skip the country and live as they do, but I honestly fail to see the appeal.

I’m still shocked at how much press this couple received. All that glitters is not gold.

What I’m less surprised at is their sudden quest to make more money. I thought ‘retirement’ was more important to them? *eyeroll*

#116 Another Deckchair on 08.30.18 at 1:36 am

Garth;

“The sizzle sells the steak”

If reading about FIRE educates kids and adults about investing and living debt free, it’s great.

The 4% “rule” is an education in itself.

I told my kids about the FIRE stuff, they swallowed the bait, and debts are paid, all are in great jobs, their future secure.

What’s wrong with that?

#117 Randy Randerson on 08.30.18 at 4:01 am

Currently I have an asset of 1.3 millions at age 38, but I would not dared retired early and live off a 4% withdrawal rate, too much risk.

Fortunately I’m only working enough to cover my yearly expenses plus a bit more, so my asset can compound by itself.

#118 Dolce Vita on 08.30.18 at 4:57 am

#31 yvr_lurker

“I think they were looking to talk with a magician and not a financial advisor….”

Or, Garth as Jesus (queue the “5 Loaves, 2 Fish” multiplier in a sitting).

“After I’d mopped up the coffee exiting my nose, we continued.”

Agreed, THAT was good & my involuntary reaction.

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Trudeau today saying ending supply management not acceptable.

Couillard talking tough like Trudeau’s Dad: “Just watch me” on ending Supply Management and that, in the middle of an election there. Ford pledging to do all he can to defend ON jobs (I’d say both panicking with a modicum of Motherhood and Apple Pie warnings thrown in as neither are Federal).

Of course and now, the US will take nothing less than what they got with cut and run Mexico on auto. Even that agreement imperfect as FL Rubio unhappy Mexico trying to decimate their vegetable industry and nothing to protect that in the agreement.

We’ll find out after Friday night’s US deadline. It will probably slide with little fanfare and Scout’s Honor pledges that we (US, Canada) will continue to negotiate in good faith. Well, at least that’s what I suspect Trudeau is hoping for.

High risk with “Crazy Ivan” Trump. Troubling is Trump’s recent “take it or leave it” otherwise Auto Tariffs comment.

I guess we’ll find out soon enough how serious the American’s are about Supply Management and their US-Mexico auto agreement after Friday.

What a MESS. Gives extra credence to the saying (and lost on Trump):

“LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE.”

#119 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.30.18 at 6:21 am

Smokey,
JD sales in Europe are suffering due to new tariffs imposed by the Euros.
You gotta drink even more to compensate.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/jack-daniels-maker-feels-sting-of-u-s-europe-trade-dispute-1535562847

#120 Renter's Revenge! on 08.30.18 at 6:43 am

#115 Fem Paying Attention on 08.30.18 at 1:22 am
What I’m less surprised at is their sudden quest to make more money. I thought ‘retirement’ was more important to them? *eyeroll*

====================================

whoop! whoop!

Dat’s the sound of da [retirement] police!

#121 Karl on 08.30.18 at 7:12 am

The whole “do what you love” mantra is a lie. If you find that, lucky you, but work is work. The French have figured this out a long time ago; work to live.

For example, all these FIRE groupies want to travel the world but ignore the fact that people had to build the airplane parts, the airplane itself, man the security at the airport, fuel the plane, handle the baggage, etc … you know, all the idiots.

There are so many more examples of this.

So until robots do everything people don’t love doing and we somehow still get income, get a job and be useful to society.

#122 KLNR on 08.30.18 at 7:21 am

“your money or your life”

a must read for anyone interested in FIRE

#123 dakkie on 08.30.18 at 7:43 am

The Most Splendid Housing Bubbles in America

http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/the-most-splendid-housing-bubbles-in-america-2/

#124 dharma bum on 08.30.18 at 8:18 am

The obnoxious FIRE couple are attempting to become just one more in a long legacy of hucksters, con artists, and snake oil salesmen in the lucrative “Get Rich Quick” scam.

Tom Wu, Tony Robbins, Tim Ferris, Kevin Trudeau, Ed Beckley, Charles Ponzi, the list goes on and on.

“If WE can do it, so can YOU!” It’s EASY if you just follow our simple steps”.

“Send us $999.00 and subscribe to our website for our kit of pamphlets, newsletters, CDs, DVDs, and YOU TOO can join the FIRE revolution!”

FIRE franchise…give me a break!

What did these two really do? They’re just a couple of intelligent kids that had good jobs, worked steadily, saved their money rabidly until they accumulated a million dollars, then quit and went travelling and partied.

Then bragged about it.

So what?

They have nothing to show for it. They’re getting old, and are now trying to figure out how to keep the dough rolling in. Actually working their butts off. Some “retirement”.

They’re scrambling to turn a simple concept like frugality, hard work, discipline, saving, and investing into some sort of a gimmicky concept. They think they can bottle it, and sell it to the world of unsuspecting idiot millennials who believe that success and wealth are instant.

Cue: Snake Oil Salesmen
https://alyssaroyse.wordpress.com/2015/04/25/snake-oil/

It’s amazing how basic ideas get spun into “secret formulas”.

If you want FIRE, get educated, get a high paying job, work hard at it, save your money, invest it, be consistent and be smart about how you spend it.

Read The Wealthy Barber by David Chilton. Read The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko. You can pick them up for free at the library.

#125 The Irony on 08.30.18 at 8:21 am

Garth mocking people whom have been financially responsible, hit Their number and now have the freedom to do whatever they want

Have a look in the mirror , Garth

#126 Fish on 08.30.18 at 8:44 am

To be honest yes wouldn’t that be a wonderful

world, now I started reading this blog BEFORE

THE NUT BAR WITH THE GREEN TRUCK AND ALBERTA PLATE WITH A RED LOC ON HIS STEERING WHEEL
APROX 1 year ago when i was enjoying it, but
Alot of strangers, keeping wanting to talk to me I said I read and this was a good blog, not so much anymore

Since there has been horrible and horrifying
Things which mark no friend, only someone that
Wants you to get rid of something that you love

By the way Garth have you moved the Harley
Into storage, be winter to keep it safe, lots of wackos out there, Best keep that with honest movers

#127 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.30.18 at 8:47 am

@#104 Billybob
“I look forward to going to work and dread the day I set the parking brake for the last time.”
+++++

You can always go back to work if your bored.
Even forklifts have parking brakes and the excitement of that perfectly stacked pallet pile……..nothing like it.
Trust me.

#128 KLNR on 08.30.18 at 8:56 am

@#92 Entrepreneur on 08.29.18 at 10:01 pm
Noticed rental housing are up for sale, at a lower price. Have they received special notice of the downturn coming up?

BC wildfires should be a wake-up call. Just keep on planting those trees, keep shipping those raw logs, keep ignoring the people within borders.

And the news said that the glaciers are melting and the mining industry see minerals. Really and how sad!

As for the next federal election I look at it this way: Who in their right mind would vote for T2. Singh is low in the polls, takes months to respond on issues. Scheer may get more votes because of the “no carbon tax” but well rehearsed. All three are young, 39,39,46.

Whereas Maxime Bernier is 55, an entrepreneur, lifelong experiences, mature to handle the position of PM. And he is speaking up for all Canadians. Wonder what the name of the party is?

___________________

LOLOL.
mad max is speaking up for the vocal minority NOT for all Canadians. Conservatives should continue to ignore him.

#129 street on 08.30.18 at 9:02 am

Garth, you’re focusing on the “RE” part and ignoring the “FI” part. Achieving financial independence at an early age is consistent with everything you argue for: saving, balanced investing, long-term thinking. Just because someone achieves FI doesn’t mean that they have to RE. It does mean that they can tell their boss to shove it if they become unhappy at work, and then find something else to do that makes them happy.

#130 milly on 08.30.18 at 9:09 am

Some clarity to why FIRE is taking off with millennials. The problem with work is our culture of it, there’s no freedom, 2 weeks vacation. You are practically chained to your desk and have no time to travel, see distant family etc. It’s not wanting to sit on the couch retired all day, but wanting more freedom with work (like being able to take a month off to travel…rather than you know, using all of your measly 2 weeks). It’s why I’m aiming for financial freedom. Maybe we need to emulate Europe where they have a much better work like balance and people won’t be so desperate to get out.

#131 In Garth We Trust on 08.30.18 at 9:46 am

Folks, there are some of us baby boomers that could have retired years ago but love our work so much that it doesn’t seem like work. The key is finding something that you have a passion for and be your own boss. Not an easy feat for many but for those who can achieve it you have nirvana. What do you think the bearded mystic financial sage that runs this pathetic blog is doing?

#132 Oakville Rocks! on 08.30.18 at 9:56 am

IT seems almost disrespectful to talk about FIRE without mentioning Vicki Robbin & Joe Dominquez and their 1992 book Your Money or Your Life (thank you to #62 LTL) . The re-emergence of this book and its adoption by several 30 year old millionaire bloggers (Mr Money Moustache for example) has produced many meaningful trends and not just for millennials. As noted by Garth, the FIRE movement has picked up minimalists and those who to try to live a very simple, frugal life. Homesteaders who live by the creed of self reliance. The small(er) house trend that asks how much space/stuff do you really need. And those who wish to get to retirement early (freedom from a 9 to 5 job anyway) by working many different jobs (side hustles). At its core, this book and movement tries to get people to re-evaluate their relationship with money and define what is really important to them. Sure many of the people on this journey choose to document their lifestyle on Instagram & blogs.. why not? Their posts are sometimes inspiring and certainly no worse than the before/after basement renovation posts. Sometimes I think this blog and the commenters here miss a lesson from the early 19th century – ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE – ELIMINATE THE NEGATIVE. There are days this place could be renamed – Old Men Mocking Millennials. Why not celebrate the fact that these young uns are getting to financial and money literacy at an early age. How can you suggest someone looking for a side hustle is anything but hard working and enterprising. Your Money or Your Life is on my bedside table and at 53 I find much of what Vicki Robbin and others are preaching to be enriching and educational. Maybe think back, all generations have their money movements whether it be “multiple streams of income, “passive income” or the “property ladder”. I would love to go back and have a peak at your 80s columns for the Sun Garth to see what the hot topics were then. When I started work, Gordon Pape and Brian Costello’s advice seemed to be everywhere, followed shortly by the Rich Dad/Poor Dad cult. At its core, the FIRE movement encourages people to increase their financial literacy without gimmicks.

#133 n1tro on 08.30.18 at 10:04 am

#52 Adam on 08.29.18 at 7:29 pm
What a pile of crap. FIRE is definitely a growing movement. But it has nothing to do with people wanting a guaranteed basic income (let alone is that “central to it”) nor is big government. FIRE is about extremely high savings rates, living substantially below your means and being content with forgetting about people judging you for renting, or not having granite, or driving a 20 year old car.

But it fits really good with your narrative, Garth, if you say the millienials want a guaranteed basic income.
——————————–
You sound a little bitter. There seems to be 2 factions to millennials. Seems the have nots mills are starting the FIRE movement while the other half chase their douchebag living downtown sipping Starbucks coffee in their skinny jeans and man bun lifestyle while thinking they can still be on the FIRE movement because they are all directors anyways.

#134 TS on 08.30.18 at 10:09 am

At least these guys have a plan for retirement and have crunched some numbers. How many Canadians have gotten that far?

#135 Tim on 08.30.18 at 10:16 am

Ah, FIRE. It is possible, after all I did it last year at 39, but most people grossly underestimate the amount of effort involved. You need to make six figures plus but only spend sub-40k (so saving close to 66% of take home) and be prepared to stay at sub-40k (inflation adjusted) for the rest of your life. When people read the fine print that often turns them off the idea.

The other confusion I think exists with FIRE is most people that actually do it don’t want to do nothing for the rest of their lives. They are okay working even harder on something they love than they did at their career. FIRE just allows them to decouple work and money. You can work on something you love with low income potential and be okay. Which is what I did…I’m writing fiction and non-fiction and I can assure you that I don’t do it for the money (average writing income in Canada is $12K/year).

FIRE is about finding a different path than a traditional career…and just one of many. Start a business, do that side hustle or what ever you want. You don’t have to do the standard career thing if you don’t want. Also you don’t have to FIRE to do it.

But I agree with Garth…be reasonable. You can’t do it in 10 years unless you already been saving a lot and have high incomes. When I stumbled onto FIRE I already had over $50k saved, a higher than average income and a tendency for low spending. It still took me 11 years to hit FIRE and at one point I was working three jobs. I finally quit when my investments started earning more than I took home in a year and my wife decided to keep her business going.

Good luck FIRE dreamers…it is a long ride to get there.

#136 SimplyPut7 on 08.30.18 at 10:32 am

I have an admission, though. This is partly my fault.

——————

Yes, I think I told you that a few blog posts ago.

Retirement at 30 would be difficult, but FIRE is a great goal to have in life. Maybe the millennials will make Freedom55 a trend again.

Good luck to all of the boomers and early gen-Xers who bought the 500k “investment” concrete box with 500 sqft of living space in some shady party of downtown Toronto, where your balcony view has drug addicts shooting up and your windows look out at the wall of the next depressing concrete condo 10 feet away from you.

The next generations won’t be buying them. I’m not even sure if they will be renting them, if the offgrid movement grows out of control, like it has in the US.

#137 Fish on 08.30.18 at 10:40 am

A not fair setup,

can’t emphasis enough to ALL liar’s , done is done,

#138 Dissident on 08.30.18 at 10:51 am

I totally get this, being a later-stage millennial myself. I also want to create my own side hustle, but it will cost me $25K at very least to develop my own business. An online business, natch. So, I’ve started saving, and am about 1/5 there, and I also want to start making some things to sell which will hopefully get me to that other $20K. (I can paint better than Bob Ross *wink*). I hope I can do this in a year, but knowing that life is expensive, and things don’t always go as planned, it might take longer than that.

I’m doing this because I hate the pointlessness of my day job, which has nothing to do with my personal interests, and I detest selling my time at a low rate, when I could be making exponentially more for the same time I invest in doing something for myself, and feel more greatly rewarded for my efforts.

Ironically, saving for my business costs will force me to do something I’m passionate about (paint), which is both the means and the end to the business that will hopefully allow me more time to paint, after it’s all set up and running.

After which I will be able to afford a million dollar detached home in Toronto :P (you knew that was coming). Just kidding. I’ll invest some of that money too. :P

#139 Tony on 08.30.18 at 10:58 am

My guess is the two clients will end up penniless. Like the old saying “a fool and his money are soon parted”. It worked in the move The Cincinnati Kid “doing the wrong time but at the right time” (in the words of Lancey Howard). Problem being when you buy and hold time catches up to you. They need to read the meaning of the word “ponzi” because when they end up penniless they’ll know the meaning but then it’ll be too late.

#140 Tony on 08.30.18 at 11:03 am

Re: #3 tccontrarian on 08.29.18 at 5:37 pm

Recall that index when it was the Vancouver stock exchange was 2,400 way back in the year 1983. Somehow Trump’s big recovery (fake or false recovery) isn’t finding its way into commodity prices. I followed the old rule of thumb way back then buying up everything at one cent or one-half a cent and holding. That was how to make money but no book ever published that one.

#141 Ogopogo on 08.30.18 at 11:04 am

#48 Ogopogo on 08.29.18 at 7:21 pm
I love my job too much for FIRE, but I do seek FI. FI is the true measure of “FU money” (FU as an adjective, for those not in the know). I dig the Millennial Revolution blog. She’s feisty and a committed renter, like me, laughing in the face of those who are too financially illiterate to see the financial beauty of being a renter-investor.

Imagine if the idea catches on. Boomers will be so screwed…

Why? – Garth

Hey Garth, I meant in the sense that if Millennials and Gen-Xers continue to rent and maybe even more so there won’t be any of us left to buy their overpriced houses.

#142 FIRECracker on 08.30.18 at 11:08 am

“Years ago I took on as clients two aggressive, self-confident, unusually irritating Type A kids.”

Love you too Garth!

FIRECracker

Ah, I know you love the attention. Check your hit count today. – Garth

#143 Dissident on 08.30.18 at 11:14 am

#51 Danny on 08.29.18 at 7:29 pm

Preach brotha!!

#144 AB Boxster on 08.30.18 at 11:20 am

Trans Mountain effectively cancelled by Federal Court.

Canada is now effectively closed for business.
Time to get your money out of Canada.
No smart investor should ever invest in this country again.
Maybe invest in Venezuela instead.

What a pathetically dysfunctional nation we have become.

Time for Alberta to say bye bye.
Do a deal with Trump.
There is no deal to be had with Canada.

#145 Tony on 08.30.18 at 11:23 am

Re: #7 Damifino on 08.29.18 at 5:42 pm

I retired at 35, made most of my money betting prize fights.

#146 Ryan the Thirtysomething on 08.30.18 at 11:25 am

Hey I love those two Millennial Revolution goofballs.

If they’re working longer hours, but doing it when they want, where they want, and answering to no-one, good on them. If watching some DIY YouTube videos means not working constant overtime for a soul-crushing bank while there’s seven feet of snow outside and you can’t remember the last time you actually saw the sun, sign me up.

Surely you of all people can relate to running a finance blog as a passion project?

#147 Braj on 08.30.18 at 11:27 am

#133 Tony on 08.30.18 at 10:58 am
My guess is the two clients will end up penniless. Like the old saying “a fool and his money are soon parted”. It worked in the move The Cincinnati Kid “doing the wrong time but at the right time” (in the words of Lancey Howard). Problem being when you buy and hold time catches up to you. They need to read the meaning of the word “ponzi” because when they end up penniless they’ll know the meaning but then it’ll be too late.

***

If you’ve read their blog and posts this seems incredibly unlikely.

#148 Braj on 08.30.18 at 11:36 am

#101 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 11:10 pm
@#92 Entrepreneur
“Maxime Bernier is 55, an entrepreneur, lifelong experiences, mature to handle the position of PM. And he is speaking up for all Canadians. Wonder what the name of the party is?”
+++++
Bernier speaking for all Canadians?
Hardly.
Lets see shall we?
He waited until the Conservatives were holding their convention in Halifax and then dropped a big steaming turd in the middle of his former party’s lap.

Vindictive would be more like it.
He reminds me of Lucien Bouchard.
A career politician that stabbed leaders in the back and swapped political parties more than he changed wives.

Lets call Bernier’s new party what it is……
the ” Benedict Bouchard Party”…..
for old times sake……..

***

He’s the best we got.. PC party deserved it, Scheer is a banana.

#149 Long-Time Lurker on 08.30.18 at 11:49 am

Argentina’s interest rate is now 60%.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/30/argentina-crisis-peso-crashes-to-record-low-amid-imf-plea.html

#150 fishman on 08.30.18 at 12:26 pm

Yikes! Pipeline quashed. You think there’s fire out west now? You ain’t seen nothing yet.

#151 Fish on 08.30.18 at 12:41 pm

The only reason
Called out banana was because of the CLOWNS running in the hallways

#152 PastThePeak on 08.30.18 at 12:53 pm

#143 AB Boxster on 08.30.18 at 11:20 am
Trans Mountain effectively cancelled by Federal Court.

Canada is now effectively closed for business.
Time to get your money out of Canada.
No smart investor should ever invest in this country again.
Maybe invest in Venezuela instead.

What a pathetically dysfunctional nation we have become.

Time for Alberta to say bye bye.
Do a deal with Trump.
There is no deal to be had with Canada.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is the type of case where I hate being right. I said as soon as the NDP/Greens forged the gov’t that this thing was toast. And then that having the federal gov’t purchase it would change nothing. So it is. As long as there is a Liberal gov’t in Ottawa, no new pipeline will be built in Canada.

#153 Incubus on 08.30.18 at 1:02 pm

“Time for Alberta to say bye bye. Do a deal with Trump. ”

They do not have the balls to do it !

#154 AB Boxster on 08.30.18 at 1:08 pm

#151 PastThePeak on 08.30.18 at 12:53 pm

As long as there is a Liberal gov’t in Ottawa, no new pipeline will be built in Canada.

——————————————–
Doesn’t matter which government rules anymore.
Especially with Mr. Scheer leading the Conservatives.

He is just as useless as Trudeau and his merry band of social licence feminists.

Canada is now run by the the Indians and the eco-Nazis. Tyranny of the uber-minority.

And this is condoned at all levels of government and judiciary.

#155 Guy in Calgary on 08.30.18 at 1:14 pm

#13 Nonplused on 08.29.18 at 6:00 pm

Are you honestly taking a poop on a couple that saved a cool $1M by age 30? Give your head a shake.

Market would have helped them also. One of the best times to be invested ever.

#156 SimplyPut7 on 08.30.18 at 1:29 pm

#66 Ace Goodheart on 08.29.18 at 8:16 pm

I think they can keep going until they are 45 years old.

The problem they have is millennials (like most generations) love to spend money and when you live in the city keeping up with the Joneses is an easy trap to fall into.

After a few kids and/or a mortgage on a house that costs a lot more per month to maintain than their realtor told them it would, millennials will give up on this dream and just hope not to retire broke like the rest of people living in Canada.

#157 nah on 08.30.18 at 1:30 pm

they achieved financial freedom , Garth. And are now doing what THEY WANT to do.

Kinda like someone looking at you, wondering ;’why is a 70 + yr old still working when he could have ‘retired’ years ago?’

why do people have to be so judgmental?

#158 Fish on 08.30.18 at 1:44 pm

U.S. bull market still has legs, but prepare for subdued returns: Portfolio manager
The bull market in U.S. stocks is showing no signs of cracking, but Eric Wiegand, senior portfolio manager at U.S. Bank Private Wealth Management, says investors have to prepare for more subdued returns. Wiegand says U.S. economic growth looks to be peaking, corporate earnings growth next year is expected to slow and interest rates rise.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investing/video/u-s-bull-market-still-has-legs-but-prepare-for-subdued-returns-portfolio-manager~1474725

#159 n1tro on 08.30.18 at 2:10 pm

By the way, my two clients have been living off a modest 4-5% income stream from their million bucks, yet now work far more hours than they did when the bank owned them. They’re obsessed with creating a FIRE franchise, online, in speeches, books and the media. The party ended. The big gig started. Selling vapours is really hard work. Who knew?
——————————————–
Garth,

Are these the douches that you profiled like a year or more back? Asian couple, living like peasants and then copying your blog by making their own blog to advise other millennials that they too, on a diet of cat food and riding a bicycle to work will get to the mythical “million dollar” mark? I’m sure they gloss over the fact that both had/have high paying careers (IT related I think…) which help them save up. Eating cat food alone won’t do it folks.

#160 232 on 08.30.18 at 2:16 pm

#86 Willy H on 08.29.18 at 9:39 pm

*Not all these folks are addicted to their smartphones and counting up sick days they have left to take. A sizable minority are excellent workers.

————————————————————————————

I have taken only 2 sick days in 10 years (high school jobs + co-op jobs + post-graduation jobs). Only two days. I can’t say I love my job, but I am a dedicated and reliable worker. I am the exception you talk about.

#161 Wrk.dover on 08.30.18 at 2:19 pm

With all of this FIRE talk, I guess I am not going to be the only one here pumping being wildly successful at being unsuccessful anymore.

It’s been lonely.

#162 Leo Trollstoy on 08.30.18 at 2:43 pm

As a trust fund baby I was born retired

#163 Where's The Money Greedo? on 08.30.18 at 2:45 pm

Re: #49 Reximus on 08.29.18 at 7:25 pm
I watched for 2 hours ( a whole NFL football game) as 2 ladies stuffed the one armed “bandits” while spinning the wheels once every 15 minutes, not even looking if they won or not, just talking to each other. I couldn’t believe the size of their purses. They must have had $100k in them at least. All watched by security who acknowledged to me that they knew and were going to do nothing.
====
so where’s the crime in this…they pump a slot machine with coins/tokens until they lose all their money?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You missed the point. They weren’t playing enough to lose anything. It was obvious.

Re: #96 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.29.18 at 10:17 pm

“Gamblers that spend far too much time in the casino will gravitate to “friends” that they see all the time.”

I saw these 2 ladies come in together, with the exact same bags.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: #60 Spock on 08.29.18 at 8:07 pm
So it is a crime to spin the wheel every 15 minutes while talking to each other. Maybe the crime was that you being so nosy in other peoples affairs.

From the size of the ladies purse you were able to make out that they had $100K in them. What a gong show.

If you make up stories at least let them be believable. Security does not care about you or other patrons. They are there to protect the patrons not to watch if they are spinning the wheel every 5 minutes or half an hour and have a big purse or small purse.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No it is not a crime. The security told me that all they have to do is spin the reels ONCE and they’re legit.
My point was security couldn’t care less, even if it was laundering they weren’t concerned, which concerned me.
I have no idea if it was $100k but it certainly wasn’t $10k, the legal point for FINTRAC to be involved. I noticed the notes weren’t blue in color. So if they stuffed 10-$20 bills per minute, which is doable, that’s $12,000/hour each. I would say they did more.
The football game was over 2 hours and they were still at it when I left after the game. It was early on a Thursday night, maybe 9 pm, so they could have been stuffing for a couple more hours.
I wasn’t being nosy, just noticed these ladies come in with beach bag sized “purses”. Never saw this before. How many wads of bills can you put in a bag the size of the ones you can buy at Superstore, ~3 foot square? Each wad estimated to me to be ~50 used bills = $1000 in 20’s if that was the denomination. If you saw the video of the River Rock’s cashier’s room, the stacks were almost that size. You know just big enough to fit under the cashier window-4 inches? This was out of the norm for anyone I ever saw playing anything in the casino ever, and they were playing (if you want to call it that) right below the game TV.
You notice people just stuffing the machines ad nauseam with bills that they have to pull off a rubber band holding the wad together. I wasn’t the only one who noticed and spoke with a least 6 people about it during this time. There were 2 other people with me when we spoke with security when he walked by. It got to be a game between us to figure out how much dough they had.

Security then questioned us on why we weren’t playing and maybe we should leave because we were just watching sports until I told him that I had a BCLC bet on the game. That shut him up.
I knew then that the fix was in and Hard Rock was complicit.
Couple years later I asked the same security guy I had spoke to previously and he told me nothing had changed. He even joked how blatant the stuffing was and it was still happening.
This was before the BC NDP got in.
Now, last time I went, Hard Rock was a ghost town. Yesterday was the first time I went to downtown Vancouver’s newish Parq Casino and it too was a ghost town compared to the packed Edgewater Casino that preceded it. So obvious!
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-casinos-claim-revenue-down-because-of-new-anti-money-laundering-rules

#164 People watching people on 08.30.18 at 3:47 pm

#95 victor majid on 08.29.18 at 10:15 pm


————————————————-
Math considerations…if half of 1% of Canadian population (target immigration), or 340,000 people immigrate to Toronto, that is significant.
That is about an increase of 6% per year in Toronto. That will affect prices and the demand for housing. This will change the city significantly.
———————————————————————————
Here’s a math consideration, how many households are in the 300k people? 5 year olds are not buying houses for themselves. Many immigrants are foreign spouses, moving into a home, some are foreign family members moving into a home. While the population may be going up 6%, how many require additional housing? Case in point, I work with many immigrants, 1 person came from abroad with his family of 6, only one house required. 2 other people brought over their foreign brides, one with children. 0 additional homes required. Assuming we are getting 300k single millionaires waiting to drop cash on 10 houses is sheer ignorance. Of the dozens of immigrants I know, only 1 came with enough money to buy a home outright. The rest had to spend years building up savings and a CREDIT history, before they could even think about buying a home.

#165 Xpat on 08.30.18 at 4:00 pm

#160 232 on 08.30.18 at 2:16 pm
#86 Willy H on 08.29.18 at 9:39 pm

*Not all these folks are addicted to their smartphones and counting up sick days they have left to take. A sizable minority are excellent workers.

————————————————————————————

I have taken only 2 sick days in 10 years (high school jobs + co-op jobs + post-graduation jobs). Only two days. I can’t say I love my job, but I am a dedicated and reliable worker. I am the exception you talk about.

jesus…. why???

#166 I’m stupid on 08.30.18 at 4:15 pm

Well good news, I welcomed a baby boy.

18 months and 70k of fertility treatments all worth it!

As for the millennial revolution, it’s total B.S.
Scrapping by living like your on welfare so you can try to “retire” early and continue to live like your on welfare in a third world country. All the while supplement your income with gigs. A gig is just another name for work except you get paid like a teenager.

Garth you’re absolutely correct in your advice to make work enjoyable so you don’t need to retire. I prefer creating a beautiful life for myself, my wife and my son. I’ll retire at 55 but my retirement will be 25k a month inflation adjusted and I won’t be doing gigs.

#167 Stan Brooks on 08.30.18 at 5:00 pm

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/canadians-react-court-rejecting-trans-mountain-pipeline-approval-184032791.html

I am afraid with this finance minister taxes will never be enough.

Nice service to the bailed out pipeline previous owners, at taxpayers expense to the tune of 4.5 billions which of course is absolutely in the best interest of Canadians as is screwing of the middle class and private corporations, doctors and plumbers.

Nice job french villa/private numbered corporations/conflict of interests, daddy’s boy.

#168 Ace Goodheart on 08.30.18 at 5:02 pm

So T2 just got crunched.

4.5 billion for a pipeline that’ll never get built.

A meeting with The Donald that he can only come out of with his tail between his legs.

PM selfie is learning how hard a job being prime minister actually is.

Not seeing how he can win another term at this point. I think his mandate is over in Oct 2019. Sheer will take the helm, and if he plays his cards right and the side show currently playing out with Maxime moves to its inevitable conclusion, it will be a majority conservative govt taking over in Oct. 2019.

Canada’s little experiment with socialists disguised as Liberals looks to be over…

#169 Ace Goodheart on 08.30.18 at 5:10 pm

So something just dawned on me sitting here thinking about how Trumpster is portrayed in media, how he communicates to his followers and the effect the dichotomy between his method of making news and the traditional methods is playing out.

Mainstream media is dead folks. Marshall Mcluhan predicted this outcome with his “media is the message ” argument.

The Twitter verse and it’s associated you tube and Facebook cousins have done in mainstream media.

Where do you go if you want to know what the President said?

Not to the media for coverage of his press conferences. You pull up his Twitter account on your phone.

This is ground shaking stuff. We are reinventing the media as a medium of communication between the famous and powerful and the rest of us.

#170 rc99ar on 08.30.18 at 5:26 pm

I never heard of FIRE but I ‘retired’ at 35 via a similar strategy. With 3 small kids and a non-working spouse at home, working on being a husband and father took priority. Now (3.5 years later) I miss the hustle and it’s hard not to feel resentment, I’ll likely go back to work soon. Retirement is not a goal. Quitting a job you don’t like is better. Find a job that makes you happy and do it until you die.

#171 Tony on 08.30.18 at 5:33 pm

Re: #155 Guy in Calgary on 08.30.18 at 1:14 pm

They’ll end up just like all the suckers with their 401k’s… roadkill to put it mildly. At least they can say they saved a fortune in income tax on their fictitious pipe-dream when the cold winds of reality blow in.

#172 Entrepreneur on 08.30.18 at 5:37 pm

We have to hear more from Maxime Bernier before forming a conclusion or a vote. I would like to hear more on what he has to say. And so far the others don’t have my vote. Democracy at play here or I would like to think so.

Just because Bernier left the Conservatives at a awkward time doesn’t make a bad politician, #101 crowdedelevatorfartz. And for speaking for minority, #KLNP, don’t we feel like the only time our voices are heard is at election time. And even then the two faces show up. Maybe that is one reason less people are voting because what is the point.

I think it is going to be a race for PM between Scheer and Bernier. Isn’t elections suppose to be about the people within borders and what they feel is the best interest for them.

So far Bernier is speaking up and I like that. And there is nothing wrong with that.

#173 KLNR on 08.30.18 at 6:29 pm

@#172 Entrepreneur on 08.30.18 at 5:37 pm
________________________

wasn’t likely that the conservatives would win the next election. Even less likely if bernier takes votes away from scheer.

#174 Nonplused on 08.30.18 at 7:01 pm

#23 Vancouver Brit

You and I are using different math assumptions. Some of mine that you missed:

1 – If your portfolio is earning 5% but you draw it all out for living expenses, the portfolio does not grow. The only way it can grow is if you reinvest the earnings and any appreciation in stock/other values is not liquidated as part of the 5%, which would mean the actual portfolio performance is higher than 5% counting capital gains. Assuming the all in portfolio gain is 5%, you can’t withdraw 5% per year and have it grow.

2 – Yes you can live on $4,200 a month, but who would want to?

3 – If the portfolio is not growing due to the reasons outlined in 1), that $4,200 per month will have the buying power of $2,100 a month in 35 years assuming 2% inflation. That is near poverty for 2 people. When you retire at 30, reaching 65 is a very real possibility. Therefore sometime before age 65 they must start withdrawing principle to maintain their living standard.

4 – CPP will be a pittance for this couple, because the amount you get out is dependent on the amount you put in. My mother only worked a few years of her adult life and her CPP is less than $100 a month.

5 – OAS doesn’t kick in until 65 I think and it won’t be enough to offset the loss of earning power caused by inflation in this scenario.

6 – According to Garth the couple is working more than ever again, just at something else. In my day we called this “entrepreneurial” or said they were entrepreneurs”, not “retirement” or “retirees”.

Now, there is a way this could work, and that is if they did not withdraw any earnings or principle until they were 50-55 and just let the portfolio grow. But to do that they would have to obtain income from some other source, their website perhaps, until then. Maybe raising chickens. Maybe restoring old furniture. Maybe mowing lawns. But that is still working, just working for yourself.

#175 Glengarry Girl on 08.30.18 at 8:25 pm

I often learn new things by reading this Blog. The comments section is particularly interesting because there are so many different opinions and I like to challenge my thought process objectively. The FIRE movement, I hadn’t really heard of that term before reading it here. I searched the net and had found so many interesting articles related. I’m just over 50 and I share many similar thoughts to those in this movement. We are avid savers, been Debt Free for many years and have recently experimented with quitting work for a year of travel, it was amazing. The concept of Simple living and Minimalism, Be more with less are all things that I practice now for years and am so satisfied. I’m happier and healthier and think that I’d like to live this way forever. I’ve had the opportunity to live both ways and prefer to live on purpose with less. I guess this blog and others appeal to me because I am still questioning how much money is enough? I really think that a million is plenty. The reason is because we currently are experimenting with living and traveling full time and we truly enjoy a lifestyle that is easily affordable. The year that we travelled 35,000 miles camping in our trailer cost under $25,000. Now we are looking at buying a Trawler boat and living aboard. We are math people and also just use common sense. Here are some of my thoughts when reading about those that don’t think a Million is enough. How many People will actually even have a Million? Seems to me that the data on the condition of the majority of people and their finances are dire. A lot of finacial advise is unachievable to the masses anyway. The concept of retirement income from an employer seems pretty unreliable to me (Sears) I think that the current model of working hard to buy a lot of Stuff you dont need is unfulfilling. Also, many people are living a very unhealthy lifestyle becsuse of abundance. It really comes down to what Lifestyle choice and how much money do you need to finance that choice. Some think that $50,000 a year is poverty and some think of the adventures and experiences they could have with half as much.

#176 Lisa on 08.30.18 at 9:48 pm

First Millennials complain that the Boomers are not retiring fast enough, keeping all the good jobs for themselves.
Now they want to retire at 40. The ones that will benefit the most from this will be Gen Z as they may get really good jobs right out of college, just like the Boomers did.
It would serve the special snowflakes right if that happens..

#177 Smoking Man on 08.30.18 at 11:33 pm

Fx traders are betting against a nafta deal being done with Canada

#178 Fish on 08.31.18 at 1:55 am

Shall I go to the office with
The sealed deal that was done

In 2015 and the carry over , that
Was from 2012 bring forward 2016

PLEASE my lawyer took care of that, DONE

know on a happy kind of note, PLEASE remember
Garth riding season is almost over, and you better
Get the Harley in storage soon

How IS the housing doing? IF you can
Update q3

Thanks

#179 IHCTD9 on 08.31.18 at 9:17 am

There is no doubt, at least for my household; that getting by on 40-50K per year would be no problemo amigo.

Right now, bills are big. They were even higher in the past. The future holds lower costs. No matter what our income was at any given point, we have always had to keep costs low, and get by on just a fraction of it, so that is normal life to us.

Despite this, we have the usual expected things in life, and everything is paid for. We’ve always taken the long plan, and stuck to our guns once we made the decision.

The day will come when the nest is empty, but the lifestyle still persists. I don’t see costs rising as I have already figured out that expensive “things” and “purchased experiences” do not provide me with any real lasting happiness – no more than less expensive ones do.

Fishing, ATV’ing, camping, road trips, working on old yellow iron and maintaining the yard just don’t cost a pile of money.

#180 Midnights on 08.31.18 at 2:27 pm

Gen—X and retirement

https://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/avoid-these-gen-x-retirement-traps

#181 Marco on 08.31.18 at 3:44 pm

That is always same old story. Self proclaimed financial gurus cater clients through writing books, sell investment subscription letters and became really rich through that process, plus paid speeches appearances on BNN. That financial mafia is popular almost like real mafia and is admired by poor people who dread Fridays and Christmases because those are favorite days for psychos to fire them.
Nobody ever tells story about life in society which consider right to work as a commodity.
Mental illness, drug dependency all stuff caused by insecurity and fear and now common violence (shooting in Toronto every day, just every day)
Oh I know, life in ruthless Anglo capitalism is fancy, but is deadly too.