The big suck

Karen’s discovering GreaterFool Rule 4. Just in time.

Widowed, 63, retiring in 14 months, single, two adult children (far away) and a pension, “that won’t attract flies, it’s so bad.” But she won the birth lottery and lives in the same home she and Dan bought a few decades ago. These days it’s worth about $800,000. No mortgage.

The trouble is simple: cash flow. K has less than $150,000 in her TFSA and RRSP combined – plus that pension which will pay under a grand a month. “Like you say on the blog,” she told me yesterday, “I’m probably pooched.”

Which brings us to Rule 4: When thou art a wrinkly, way better to have cash flow than house.

Karen actually called me because some dude from Equitable Bank contacted her to pitch that company’s new reverse mortgage. It seemed like a dream solution by the end of the call. “He said I can borrow about $400,000, and never pay it back!,” she said. “So I could invest it and make money to live on, or just spend it, or maybe buy an investment condo that would pay me rent every month. And I never have to make any payments on the loan – just give them the money out of the house when I croak. So I’m tempted. What choice do I have. I dare you to talk me out of it.”

Hey, K, I don’t judge or bully. Let’s just deep-dive this for a minute.

Reverse mortgages aren’t new. But they’re popular like never before. Easy to see why. First, at least four in ten end their careers with diddly saved – a total indictment of their time on this earth. But it’s real. Second, most people retire with real estate, mostly paid for. Third, house values went nuts for a decade, creating windfall wealth to tap into. Fourth, corporate pensions are dying out fast and nobody can live on government pogey. Fifth, like trout, humans just want to go home to die. The Equitable Bank guy knows this, as do the clever marketers at HomeEquity Bank – the two Canadian providers of reverse mortgages.

The idea ‘s simple: borrow against the equity in your house to gain a tax-free lump sum and make no repayments until you sell the place or die. For people with real estate and no liquid wealth, it seems like a godsend. But the devil is in the details. As a result, so many old farts among are falling for a scheme that surgically separates them from their wealth.

Things to consider:

This is a mortgage, not a simple loan. Interest accrues constantly because no payments are being made on an amortized debt. Soon you’re being charged interest upon interest. It doesn’t take too many years for the original amount of the loan to turn into a debt double or triple the original amount.

Supposedly people qualify to borrow 55% of their equity after achieving the age of 55. But that’s not true. The bankers really want the oldest possible borrowers, preferably male, who are closest to departing this mortal coil and enjoying their 40 celestial virgins (that’s coming, right?). That way their funds (and profits) are closer to being collected. Younger wrinklies get less.

The rate on a reverse mortgage is outrageous. Current with HomeEquity’s CHIP program (the biggest), for example, the five-year rate is 6.78%. That means $300,000 borrowed now becomes $450,000 in five years and about $625,000 in a decade.

So, reverse mortgages are great if you hate your children. Because when you kick and the house is sold, there may be zippo left after the debt’s repaid.

This might be the worst time in years to contemplate a reverse mortgage – just when interest in them is exploding. Why? Because the bubble’s over. The combination of rising interest rates and restricted credit means real estate values will moderate or fall – at the same time borrowers are seeing their equity sucked off. It may not take long to entirely drain the pot.

And remember Rule 4 – you need income, not real estate, especially when the serious wrinkly years commence. People in their 80s often have to seek more appropriate accommodation with fewer stairs and more assistance. If they’ve just spent a decade or more consuming their home equity, they may have precious little left to finance the rest of the journey. That would suck.

So what are the alternatives if you have a house and no money?

There are a few.

Before you retire and give up your steady income, arrange a HELOC. A home equity line of credit may be a better choice since the interest rate is lower, interest-only payments can be made, it can be retired or reduced at any time, there is no interest-on-interest and the money you pay to maintain it can be 100% tax-deductible if you invest the funds to give yourself a retirement income stream.

Of course, you can always rent out part of your home to some desperate Millennial. Or AirBnB the place. Or list and downsize. Or, better yet, sell, cash out and invest in a prudent portfolio creating a steady, tax-efficient income stream to pay your rent. That way real estate equity is liberated instead of being sucked off by the giant CHIP proboscis. You can enjoy monthly cash flow, fund your accommodation and still retain a nestegg to pass on to your undeserving heirs.

Or, even better, spend it all. You’re not leaving here alive.

120 comments ↓

#1 Thebarold on 07.18.18 at 3:43 pm

Something the mass-media retirement planners do not go into is the cost of assisted living as you grow wrinklier. I went through options for my mom before she passed and it has revised my outlook on the cashflow you need to ‘retire’. Forget about inflation. Think about factoring in your depreciating health and increasing care needs…

#2 tkid on 07.18.18 at 3:46 pm

Karen, I chewed my mom’s ear off about reverse mortgages. Now it’s your turn.

This is a way for you to get 40% of your house value, and the mortgage company to potentially get the remaining 60% (if enough time passes before you need to leave the house). If you find yourself needing more accessible digs, or the garden is too big, or you need help (nurses, etc) and it’s time to find a smaller place, a lot of that house value (or all of that house value) is gone.

You are better off selling the house, taking the proceeds, and investing it. Combine the investment income with the pension and cpp/oas/gis and you should have enough to live comfortably on.

The Reverse Mortgage Dudes may have a different opinion.

#3 Chico on 07.18.18 at 4:03 pm

I met a 60ish mom, dad and adult sister while at the Louisberg historic site yesterday. They asked me where I was from and I mentioned Nova Scotia but that we’ve only escaped the lower mainland a little over 2 years ago.

I talked about the relief of being away from there and how stressful it’s got to be for people who have got themselves mortgaged to the hilt, like in TO.

She mentioned being from Hamilton and having a son living in North Van. She told me how he went out west, met a girl, and they….get this….forced him to buy a property in North Van. She started rambling a bit and became agitated and jumpy when she talked about “rates will never rise like in the early 80’s and “the bank of Canada wouldn’t raise rates…etc, etc, etc.

So I guess she put so much money on the table for her son to take that he couldn’t refuse to buy.

The girl he met and moved in with/married didn’t want the huge debt, they told me, but as they said, they “forced him” to buy.

I then get back home yesterday and read the story of the guy getting ganged up on at a BBQ and just shake my head in disbelief!

#4 pay your taxes on 07.18.18 at 4:05 pm

So she’ll get just under a grand per month from one pension, not sure how much from CPP(average is $500), OAS is around $590, and RRSP (safe withdrawal rate 4%) would bring her another $500 per month. Income taxes drop at age 65 and she could defer her property taxes and pay a measly 1% per annum as a penalty.

Best to sell the house and invest the cash in a tax efficient manner. Garth, are you taking her on as a client? She could benefit as much from the tax planning as she would from the investment side of things. Her kids would fare better too.

#5 MSM-Free Zone on 07.18.18 at 4:07 pm

Nice recap of a very informative blog seven years ago.

I remember Gordon Pape pumping these Reverse Mortgages on TV (back when TV hadn’t been reduced to a steaming pile of Kim Kardashian and HGTV).

Excellent Garth advice back then (I kept a copy for my future wrinkly years which now happen to be arriving fast and furious) and just as excellent today.

https://www.greaterfool.ca/2011/11/25/the-leveler/

#6 Dissident on 07.18.18 at 4:11 pm

#proboscis

Ok, I’m done now.

#7 Colin on 07.18.18 at 4:34 pm

Seems like most of financial planners have a problem with you spending it all. Some appear to give you advice under the assumption that you will never spend it.

#8 Frustrated Kiwi on 07.18.18 at 4:42 pm

If Karen’s kids are doing well there’s another option. We sent my mother $10k per year and took over a corresponding portion of her home equity. Not the greatest investment for us but better than her taking out a reverse mortgage and also kinder since she could stay in her home without money stress (she had other income). If she does that then make sure there’s a legal agreement, siblings are on board, and you’ve thought through who’s responsible for home repairs etc. (surprised us when my mother started thinking we should be responsible once we owned a significant chunk of the house). Anyway, worked well for our family.

#9 Damifino on 07.18.18 at 4:49 pm

Karen’s challenge is more psychological than financial. It’s hard to imagine moving your life to some unknown rental accommodation after decades in your own home. Especially when it’s a home you once shared with your departed spouse. (I’d bet dollars to donuts his tools are still hanging on a wall in the basement).

Myself, I put home ownership behind me in 2010. The capital I gained on the sale (mortgage was fully paid) is all still with me (and more). It works daily on my behalf while I get on with the things I lacked time for in my working years.

My strong advice to you, Karen: Sell, invest the cash and find a professionally managed purpose-built rental building. Do your homework on that last item especially. Make sure you vet them as thoroughly as they will vet you. Look for signs of pride in ownership and attention to detail in maintenance. It really will pay off.

#10 FLHTK on 07.18.18 at 4:49 pm

She should sell and invest in the diversified portfolio and let the earnings pay her rent if she’s worried about cash flow! That’s what I would do in her situation.
I mean 800K come on lady sell that place and invest it already.
Time for a new chapter….

#11 Donald on 07.18.18 at 4:51 pm

If she doesn’t need to leave money to the kids, sell the house and get an annuity. For a woman at age 65, it’s almost $4000 per month for $800,000 for the rest of your life. The house money is unregistered funds, so income tax is very low, only on the interest, obviously not on return of principal. Wait till she’s 75, and it’s well over $5000 per month. Guaranteed by Assuris. You can’t get your money out but, by the same token, greedy friends and relatives can’t get the principal either when you become a little vague or need LTC.

Terrible idea. In an era of low rates an annuity is junk and runs her funds to zero. She can make the same money and retain 100% of the capital with a balanced portfolio. – Garth

#12 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 4:53 pm

#1 Thebarold on 07.18.18 at 3:43 pm

Forget about inflation. Think about factoring in your depreciating health and increasing care needs…

———

Yep. With Ms. IH’s profession, she gets to see many elderly folks struggle with the costs of additional care in the sunset years of their lives. Not having money to put towards these things costs freedom, and sometimes dignity too.

A big pile of cash is most helpful as you cross 80, many who have the means can stay in their homes longer – a shocking amount of elderly folks strongly desire this.

#13 Howard on 07.18.18 at 4:56 pm

Chico #3

Very hard time believing this story. These complete strangers told you such specific details of their, and their son’s, financial lives?

#14 Dan on 07.18.18 at 4:57 pm

Hey Garth, how much cash does a person need to have before Turner Investments will take them on as a client?

There’s no minimum. It depends on whether or not our services are right for you. Email me if you want more: [email protected]. – Garth

#15 Wrk.dover on 07.18.18 at 5:08 pm

When I hit 75, if a reverse mortgage becomes a reverse mortgage in actual definition, as in they send me $500/month or whatever against my house at prime plus 1% compounding until I run out of credit room, I will be all in. Gladly.

This “here is $400,000 all at once and good luck with it” business is bogus. Payday loan grade business practice is about what it is.

Shouldn’t be legal.

#16 Reality is stark on 07.18.18 at 5:20 pm

The smart way to play the game is not to bother with a reverse mortgage.
This is what I would do.
Sell and take the $800,000.
Buy a delapidated shell with good bones and gut it.
Bust your ass for three years and fully reno the joint and take your tax free gains when you sell.
It’s all about never paying tax ever.
Nothing else matters.
Making money is easy when someone else isn’t in the picture forcing you to spend.

#17 Honey Dripper on 07.18.18 at 5:23 pm

I’ve failed. I did all this when I retired and the DW went PT with her job. She said NO to the investing so we have the house and the HELOC all doing nothing.

I have explained it all to her every day to Sunday, nothing gets through. On idle, sad!

#18 Karl on 07.18.18 at 5:34 pm

Garth, the other day you told me that renting or owning a a home is not a contest, but clearly you believe renting to be the better option. Had Karen done so long ago, she would have a large portfolio that would provide her cash flow in her wrinkly years.

I am on the fence of whether to sell my home and rent. Stories like Karen’s are a good example of pro rent.

However, I don’t understand why people like Karen don’t sell and downsize? Her kids aren’t even close, so it’s not like she has to be in that area. The key would be to sell and downsize, invest the rest for cash flow.

I’m still on the fence.

Rule 4. – Garth

#19 froggy on 07.18.18 at 5:34 pm

#4 l guess you didn’t read the blog house prices are going down in ten years realistly her house will be less than 600 and she’s 63 if she sells now see could live a much better outcome say about 60-80 grand a year much than koupt up in a house barely surviving what a schuck l feel the wont be worth 500 grand in ten years never mind a housing slow but does anyone know what a recession will do to housing destroy it and l think were due for one in the next 2-4 years with alot of pain so you tell me whats better for her

#20 calgaryPhantom on 07.18.18 at 5:35 pm

Rule#4?

Did i miss a blog listing all the rules?
I never miss a blog!

What’s rule#1?

#21 Alberta Ed on 07.18.18 at 5:40 pm

Go with the (cash) flow (you can find a really good financial advisor without looking past this blog). Then rent: no mortgage, no surprise condo assessments, no exorbitant local and school taxes, no maintenance costs, minimal insurance, freedom to move, and lots of cash left over to spend on fun stuff before you croak. Even something to leave for your kids, if you want.

#22 Honey Dripper on 07.18.18 at 5:58 pm

On a 200K HELOC my interest rate is 4%.
Your fee (1%) subtracted monthly
ETF fees (.5%) subtacted monthly

That would be $915 per month in interest and fees. I have no idea what the taxes would be at year end on the final bill.
That just seems like a lot to net a 1.5% return. What am I missing? because I would love to do this.

The loan interest is 100% tax-deductible. The advisor fees are deductible. The ETF cost is about one-quarter of one per cent. If it doesn’t work for you, don’t do it. – Garth

#23 Chico on 07.18.18 at 6:01 pm

#13 Howard on 07.18.18 at 4:56 pm

Chico #3

Very hard time believing this story. These complete strangers told you such specific details of their, and their son’s, financial lives?

———————————————————
In order for their to be a problem with the story I relayed, one would have to come up with a motive for making up such a story. What do you suggest my ulterior motive would be? I’m a nameless, faceless individual who lives in Nova Scotia and who rarely every posts any comments on this blog anymore. I have nothing to gain by making up such a story, considering no one on the blog knows who I am.

#24 cozydell on 07.18.18 at 6:02 pm

And bounce your last check as well.

#25 Dave on 07.18.18 at 6:07 pm

Rumor has it that Garth’s family wealth is eventually going to be donated to all his supporters on his blog. Yes, even you who read this post : )

Only those with fur. – Garth

#26 Lost...but not leased on 07.18.18 at 6:08 pm

Re: reverse mortgages

Garth just scraped the surface….

….recommend people do the homework on how BAAADDD things can get once you are in default of the contract’s terms and conditions.

It’s moreso designed on the predatory mode…given the clientele tends to be “trusting”seniors.

#27 Guy in Calgary on 07.18.18 at 6:21 pm

Could CRA scrutinize deducting interest on a HELOC that is being invested in ETF’s? Could they not say that you are not investing for income generation?

Also the advisor fees are only deductible for non registered accounts which is something to keep in mind. I assume the majority of the working class has most of their wealth in registered accounts (and real estate).

Of course ETFs are the same as stocks, bonds or mutual funds etc. Capital gains potential earns you deductibility. As for advisor fees, they are 100% deductible on registered accounts and come out of RRSPs without being counted as income – generating a large tax break. It is only with TFSAs, in other words, that fees are after-tax. – Garth

#28 Guy in Calgary on 07.18.18 at 6:22 pm

I have dealt with Home Equity Bank as I have had people ask about them. It is worth noting that they will not give you a dime before you seek ILA.

#29 tccontrarian on 07.18.18 at 6:37 pm

I agree with Garth on this one. Either sell and downsize/or rent, or take a HELOC and invest (with competent guidance).

I’d go as far as to say that most financial products designed to ‘help’ people (especially old, financially illiterate ones), are really covert ways to fleece people out of their $$’s.

TCC

#30 Karl on 07.18.18 at 6:40 pm

Can anyone shed light on “Rule #4”?

I wish there was one striking point that could settle the rent vs. buy a home debate. Alas I am still searching. It’s hard to think of renting when I have a young family. Perhaps I am brainwashed, but maybe not.

#31 Long-Time Lurker on 07.18.18 at 6:49 pm

#25 Dave on 07.18.18 at 6:07 pm
Rumor has it that Garth’s family wealth is eventually going to be donated to all his supporters on his blog. Yes, even you who read this post : )

Only those with fur. – Garth

>Does that mean we should all stop shaving?

#32 Bytor the Snow Dog on 07.18.18 at 6:54 pm

#25 Dave on 07.18.18 at 6:07 pm sez:
“Rumor has it that Garth’s family wealth is eventually going to be donated to all his supporters on his blog. Yes, even you who read this post : )”

Garth Retorts: “Only those with fur. ”
——————————————-

Note to Self- I guess shaving my back is OUT.

#33 Stone on 07.18.18 at 6:56 pm

#16 Reality is stark on 07.18.18 at 5:20 pm
The smart way to play the game is not to bother with a reverse mortgage.
This is what I would do.
Sell and take the $800,000.
Buy a delapidated shell with good bones and gut it.
Bust your ass for three years and fully reno the joint and take your tax free gains when you sell.
It’s all about never paying tax ever.
Nothing else matters.
Making money is easy when someone else isn’t in the picture forcing you to spend.

———

Yes. I imagine that is every 63 year olds dream. Especially the bust your ass piece.

#34 New West on 07.18.18 at 6:58 pm

#13 Howard on 07.18.18 at 4:56 pm

Chico #3

Very hard time believing this story. These complete strangers told you such specific details of their, and their son’s, financial lives?

———————-

Chico, do you have any idea of how real estate mania has affected people in Vancouver? I’ve had these kinds of conversations with complete strangers at bus stops, at work, in cafes……..any conversation, with anyone in the GVRD, will inevitably end up on the topic of real estate – not having it, wanting it, buying it, having it and wondering what to do with it, renting it, government policies and levies on it. I imagine it’s the same in the GTA.

I love travelling to other parts of Canada because it’s refreshing to talk about other things than houses and condos. I was recently in Quebec City, and for a week did not hear a single conversation about real estate. It was so very novel, and really made me realize how a societal obsession with real estate can interfere with actually living and enjoying a life.

#35 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.18 at 7:12 pm

@#20 CalgaryPhantom
“What’s rule#1?

+++++

#1. Never, EVER miss the blog rules.

#36 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.18 at 7:17 pm

@ Chico.
I believe you.
Sometimes people just wanna talk to strangers.
I met some people from Annapolis maryland today on the ferry back from Vancouver Island. I spotted some whales and pointed them out. They were thrilled. He works in Wash , DC. They hate Trump. She’s a school teacher, hates Trump. Loves the Pacific Northwest.
Thinking of moviing to Seattle. on and on and on.
Total strangers. I didnt offer any info and they didnt ask.
Unfortunately, we all rode the elevator back our cars and I ruined the moment…..my bad.

So…. after Louisberg did you drive around the Cabot Trail?

#37 Vision on 07.18.18 at 7:21 pm

People do not realize that once they reach their 80’s pls, they cannot do stairs , housekeeeping, the garden can be a burdon and sooner or later will need to move into a condo or nursing home.
I see this daily in my job.
I see seniors living on one floor, alone in a huge house, mostly empty. Their family comes in once a week to do laundry because they cannot go downstairs. If they can afford it, they will install a chair lift.
I also see elderly people who have sold their houses and live in the most luxurious condos, all afforable because of the housing bubble. They are set for life, no stairs, gym downstairs , senior events etc.
Another point: seniors who have these mcmansions out in suburbia are stuck if they are their licences revoked due to health reasons. They rely on family to drive them around. Don’t kid yourself, it can happen.
If they sold their homes they could relocate closer to public transportation services.
Lots of reasons to unload the one asset , your house, especially if you have little savings.

#38 NoName on 07.18.18 at 7:24 pm

i didn’t know this, dropped a school and went gambling… wow.

https://youtu.be/y7B0u3b2iqc?t=27m35s

tesla coil coming to Hammer Aug 26, don’t miss it.

#39 Linda on 07.18.18 at 7:29 pm

One thing this post doesn’t say is just what kind of house Karen is currently occupying. If it is a big family place with stairs she would really be better off downsizing. Yes, that means selling & that also means finding alternate accommodation, whether it be a rental or purchasing a smaller place to live.

Garth correctly points out the house equity is a potential lifesaver for Karen. It could mean a truly golden retirement if properly managed. He also correctly points out that there are many others in her position so if Karen wants to get that golden egg, she’d better move before the market is flooded with competitors.

#40 45north on 07.18.18 at 7:36 pm

Chico: In order for there to be a problem with the story I relayed, one would have to come up with a motive for making up such a story.

here’s the story:
– you live in Nova Scotia
– you were at Louisberg
– you used to live in BC
– you met a man and a woman and their adult daughter
– who were from Hamilton
– the man and woman also have an adult son
– who lives in BC
– who is married
– who bought a house in North Van

I’ll buy it.

#41 Anthony on 07.18.18 at 7:41 pm

Reading this blog makes me want to sell all my real estate and put it in the financial markets.
I am 34. Lets say I have $800,000 – is this enough to retire on? What type of financial assets would be most conducive for a yearly income? I am guessing dividends?

#42 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 7:53 pm

#32 Stone on 07.18.18 at 6:56 pm
#16 Reality is stark on 07.18.18 at 5:20 pm
The smart way to play the game is not to bother with a reverse mortgage.
This is what I would do.
Sell and take the $800,000.
Buy a delapidated shell with good bones and gut it.
Bust your ass for three years and fully reno the joint and take your tax free gains when you sell.
It’s all about never paying tax ever.
Nothing else matters.
Making money is easy when someone else isn’t in the picture forcing you to spend.

———

Yes. I imagine that is every 63 year olds dream. Especially the bust your ass piece.

————-

I don’t see a reason why not if the 63 year old is retired. Take it slow and easy over a couple years, 6 hours a day. I know lots of 65-75 year olds still cutting, bucking, and splitting 3-4 bush cords of firewood every year – they just make a few concessions, and take more time.

I do think a guy who sat in a cubicle poking at a computer for 40 years will have issues. It takes a level of physical and mental toughness to do that kind of work, a paper shuffler might not be able to go the distance.

I do agree though that this kind of work is much better done at 23 rather than 63.

#43 Can You Dig It? on 07.18.18 at 7:58 pm

Or Karen can move to Ecuador and enjoy living on the equator. She can enjoy the high altitude and eat hornado, ceviche and zarapatoca all the while learning Spanish on Rosetta Stone.

#44 Chico on 07.18.18 at 7:58 pm

#34 New West on 07.18.18 at 6:58 pm

#13 Howard on 07.18.18 at 4:56 pm

Chico #3

Very hard time believing this story. These complete strangers told you such specific details of their, and their son’s, financial lives?

———————-

Chico, do you have any idea of how real estate mania has affected people in Vancouver? I’ve had these kinds of conversations with complete strangers at bus stops, at work, in cafes……..any conversation, with anyone in the GVRD, will inevitably end up on the topic of real estate – not having it, wanting it, buying it, having it and wondering what to do with it, renting it, government policies and levies on it. I imagine it’s the same in the GTA.

I love travelling to other parts of Canada because it’s refreshing to talk about other things than houses and condos. I was recently in Quebec City, and for a week did not hear a single conversation about real estate. It was so very novel, and really made me realize how a societal obsession with real estate can interfere with actually living and enjoying a life.

———————————————————

I’m pretty sure you meant to address your comment to Howard not me.

Our family moved east from Langley in 2016 and very few of the people out here know much about the lower mainland insanity and are more familiar with the gta stupidity.

Living in Nova Scotia is great for meeting people from Ontario and Quebec and Americans from the eastern seaboard. I’ve had the pleasure of chatting with lots of these folks about relevant issues that affect our respective countries, including housing, health care, etc.

#45 Can You Dig It? on 07.18.18 at 8:03 pm

#41

You can buy a 1000 sq. feet townhouse in East Vancouver for 800k and bring in $2k per month rent.

$1300 after taxes, fees, insurance, etc.

That’s a 2% return on investment, and 100% taxable as income. Joke, right? – Garth

#46 AGuyInVancouver on 07.18.18 at 8:09 pm

Good lord people, it is “Fortress Louisbourg”! Doesn’t anyone learn proper spelling these days!

#47 Chico on 07.18.18 at 8:13 pm

#36 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.18 at 7:17 pm

@ Chico.
I believe you.
Sometimes people just wanna talk to strangers.
I met some people from Annapolis maryland today on the ferry back from Vancouver Island. I spotted some whales and pointed them out. They were thrilled. He works in Wash , DC. They hate Trump. She’s a school teacher, hates Trump. Loves the Pacific Northwest.
Thinking of moviing to Seattle. on and on and on.
Total strangers. I didnt offer any info and they didnt ask.
Unfortunately, we all rode the elevator back our cars and I ruined the moment…..my bad.

So…. after Louisberg did you drive around the Cabot Trail?

——————————————————–

We actually started by camping at Broad Cove in the Highland National Park. My wife and I were floored by the beauty, and she lived her whole life in BC before moving here in 2016!

I had the best wildlife spotting day of my life also.
Had a face to face with a red fox first thing in the morning. He didn’t see me sitting motionless in the vestibule, so he came up to me…about 12-15 feet away and stared me right in the eyes.

Later, on the way to the Cheticamp side, we spotted a mother moose and 2 babies!

On the way back we saw a bull moose and got pictures.

In the evening our friend thought she saw something in the water and…sure enough, up pops a seal and he spent about 15 seconds checking us out, popping back down, checking us out again, and then doing a couple more looks as he went out to sea.

In regards to chatting with people, the campground was terrific. Got to know our neighbors from Boston, another camper from told me a little about New Hampshire. Had a nice chat with a couple from Iowa while hiking who wanted to know about the differences in our health care systems and whether they should adopt our version.

People are vacationing and they are relaxed. All kinds of topics come up that in another setting might be too intense, but when chilling on vacation, people talk about anything and everything.

One more thing. I’m not a motorcycle guy, but if the Cabot trail and the province in general isn’t a motorcyclist’s dream, than I don’t know what is. I have never, ever, ever seen so many motorcycles in my life!

#48 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 8:20 pm

Another point: seniors who have these mcmansions out in suburbia are stuck if they are their licences revoked due to health reasons. They rely on family to drive them around. Don’t kid yourself, it can happen
———-

Exactly that happened to gramps on my Mom’s side. Mandatory drivers test at 80, he lost his license right then even though he was perfectly healthy (lived to be 99).

He had cash though, so he went right out and bought a Polaris Sportsman 500 and drove that around instead. That meant he drove it down the side of the road (illegal back then), and without a helmet (illegal).

Cops stopped him numerous times, but since he couldn’t speak English worth a damn, they kept letting him off without a ticket.

#49 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 8:28 pm

The Cabot trail is sweet, we stayed at Cape North at this old Motel, and had breakfast across the road. Went on a whale watching trip, watched the tidal bore come up a creek. I’d say NS is great place to retire. Might be a little rough in the winter though.

#50 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.18.18 at 8:33 pm

@#46 Chico
“I’m not a motorcycle guy, but if the Cabot trail and the province in general isn’t a motorcyclist’s dream, than I don’t know what is. I have never, ever, ever seen so many motorcycles in my life!”
+++++

Yep. The Cabot Trail is consistantly ranked in the top 10 motorcycle rides in the world. Amazing road.
Check it out in the Fall when the leaves are changing.
Stunning colors and vistas.
I was back a few years ago and rented a BMW and did some golfing at Highland Links and ripped around the Trail. The speeding ticket was worth every penny.

:)

#51 AK on 07.18.18 at 8:35 pm

Could you imagine If somebody got a reverse mortgage for 5 years in 1981 ??

#52 Mattl on 07.18.18 at 8:42 pm

This lady is exactly the reason most middle class Canadians should own homes. Rent, for most of her life, would have been close or equal to her mortgage payments. If she had been a renter, it is almost guaranteed that she would have a 150K net worth instead of the 950K she has today. Even if the markets tanks a further 50% she is most likely ahead of where she would have been as a renter.

At least now she has options. Sell the home, or stay in it and live on the cheap. CPP+her pension+small draw on the 150K and she probably has as much cash flow as she did working now that the house is paid off.

I seriously believe long term middle class renters will get crushed at some point. I mean how much do you need invested to carry a 4-5K rental for 20-40 years post retirement? Is the flexibility to pack up and move at the drop of the hat really worth the pain that will be paying 4K-5K for a 2brdm in Ajax in 2040?

Thank god this lady settled in and paid off a home, she otherwise would be living in a one bedroom condo and eating dog food the rest of her life. She is the EXACT reason why people preach buying and paying off a home. Even a putz that can’t save money can be in a reasonably good position over the long haul. Sure, you can’t always sell at the top, and homes and not very liquid. But if you have time on your side, they are the ticket for pleebs that can’t save.

I’m now expecting a bunch of folks that make 150K and live in 1bdrms with no kids to tell me how wrong I am. Run the math on renting family homes in reasonably sized cities for 50+ years and let me know how that looks.

#53 NEVER GIVE UP on 07.18.18 at 8:44 pm

#23 Chico on 07.18.18 at 6:01 pm
#13 Howard on 07.18.18 at 4:56 pm

Chico #3

Very hard time believing this story. These complete strangers told you such specific details of their, and their son’s, financial lives?

———————————————————
In order for their to be a problem with the story I relayed, one would have to come up with a motive for making up such a story. What do you suggest my ulterior motive would be? I’m a nameless, faceless individual who lives in Nova Scotia and who rarely every posts any comments on this blog anymore. I have nothing to gain by making up such a story, considering no one on the blog knows who I am.
===================================

Howard has a bullshit detector that is out of control!
There has to be reasoning in your BS detection!
Amazing that people think this way?

#54 Tony on 07.18.18 at 8:56 pm

Re: #10 FLHTK on 07.18.18 at 4:49 pm

Crystal ball time. Invest in what? Most things are destined to produce a negative return over the coming years.

#55 rental property math on 07.18.18 at 9:04 pm

You know in Ontario it’s the landlord’s responsibility to make the property accessible for the tenant unless it causes undue hardship for the landlord. I’m already on the fence of punting my rentals one by one upon mortgage renewals. If my wrinkles start having diminshed health and want to turn my place into a senior’s home, I’m going to pick up the phone and within a couple days there’s going to be a for sale sign in the lawn.

I see quite a distorted few of renting being such a safe way of spending your retirement years. I change my mind about wanting to keep the rentals or invest in a balanced portfolio as often as I change my tooth brush. Which is every couple months.

And get this.. I can get pissed off from another tenant at another property which can piss me off enough to sell everything! This is all because I am not leveraged much anymore. Couple more years.. no more properties… no more housing dirty tenants or wrinklies who may end up being liabilities. Just give me that 6-8% gains every year and I won’t touch the principal. I’ll get me a dog that can shit bigger than your dog and I don’t have to worry about that being a tenant when my phone rings.

#56 Linda on 07.18.18 at 9:05 pm

#12 – ‘a shocking amount of elderly folks strongly desire this’ – what is so shocking about wanting to remain in your own home as you age? Have you ever checked out what LTC places are like in real life? While some are quite nice, the nice ones cost a lot of money. The rest range from basic to pits. The pits tend to have a lot of heavily medicated residents whose care is basic at best & at worst – well, let’s just say you really don’t want to end up there. Plus even the worst places can be expensive. Far better to pony up for services in your own home if you can swing it.

#57 BobC on 07.18.18 at 9:19 pm

Did the recent tax law change allow a us citizen to use your services by any chance?

#58 Deaf Ears on 07.18.18 at 9:21 pm

I tried explaining this to my folks.

They love the rising value of their BC home. More HELOC room to go spend. Another new truck. This is why they want the corrupt liberals back in. I told them to sell and move to Toronto where Doug Ford will take care or their rising home values.

A house bought for less than six figures over 30 years ago and now carrying a mortgage well into the six figures. Fat incomes, fat pensions. But let’s not forget they worked hard for what they have. Hell they never even had to switch government jobs once. Must have been rough.

Pathetic. Typical boomer mentality.

However, in this case it is worse. I am gearing up for having to clean up a debt mess once they leave earth.

Little house is a piggy bank and I constantly get reminded about how good it is to go buy one. It is like a credit card but better.

Yeah okay.

#59 BC Liberal Wilkinson owned on the radio today on 07.18.18 at 9:25 pm

Sorry Andrew. The BC population have spoken.

Like colmancountry, you will never be voted in.

Especially when you dodge questions the way you did today.

Call Doug Ford. He just hired your look alike Gordon to audit the finances in Ontario. He might have a job for you.

And thank you Eby for getting whistle blower protection in place for the key people ready to name names in the upcoming inquiry.

Everyone in BC wants answers. And we have a great sense laws were broken on every level.

#60 S.Bby on 07.18.18 at 9:27 pm

#45
You didn’t include mortgage interest. Now you’re at a negative ROI.

#61 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 9:27 pm

#55 Linda on 07.18.18 at 9:05 pm

#12 – ‘a shocking amount of elderly folks strongly desire this’ – what is so shocking about wanting to remain in your own home as you age?
—————-

I never said that it was shocking that elderly folks wanted to stay in their own homes as they age.

I said it was shocking HOW MANY do.

Like ALL of them.

LTC is where you go when you’re old and broke, if you’ve got cash you can keep living in your own place longer. My gramps didn’t move out till like 90.

I plan on dying at home if possible…

#62 S.Bby on 07.18.18 at 9:30 pm

#51 Mattl
What did the renter do with all the extra money they saved by renting? Buy a lot of pizza?

#63 Oft deleted much maligned stock picker on 07.18.18 at 9:39 pm

Garth….I hate saying “I told you do”. But I told you that Trump was going to pivot to Mexico to islolate Groper .

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trump-says-he-may-agree-on-trade-deal-with-mexico-before-canada-1.1110177

You deleted the comment….but the truth is that Trudeau alone has pissed Yrump and cabinet off so much because of his antics behind the scenes and smak talking gibberish Trump has decided to tech Groper and Dumbo Butts a lesson. Trudeau/Butts have been frequently meeting with Obama and team secretly to push the #twsistance strategy. Mexico will sign a full meal deal soon to the great shock of the Butts team….

You’re also going to hear another snub coming from China…..publicly. I told you why in my deleted email.

#64 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 9:46 pm

#51 Mattl on 07.18.18 at 8:42 pm
This lady is exactly the reason most middle class Canadians should own homes. Rent, for most of her life, would have been close or equal to her mortgage payments.
————

You’re forgetting the other half of a renting strategy – investing.

If you took the REAL AND HONEST costs of long term home ownership, and subtracted the rental cost, the difference would be near a couple grand per month in a place like the GTA.

A couple grand per month invested @ 5% over 40 years would end up at ~3 million, over 2 million of it being pure interest. I don’t think too many folks who did this would feel they made a bad decision.

Obviously you would be correct if the renter did not invest.

The fact is, there is a lot more to owning a home than just mortgage payments, both money wise, and other things. I’d make 1-2% if I sold my place right now, and the math only gets worse the longer I live in it.

#65 SoggyShorts on 07.18.18 at 9:47 pm

#20 calgaryPhantom on 07.18.18 at 5:35 pm
What’s rule#1?

I think it’s “Don’t buy RE with anyone that you aren’t sleeping with.”

#66 yorkville renter on 07.18.18 at 9:55 pm

wife and I always tell the rents to spend their money – it’s yours, enjoy it.

#67 Karl on 07.18.18 at 10:01 pm

Mattl

I’m now expecting a bunch of folks that make 150K and live in 1bdrms with no kids to tell me how wrong I am. Run the math on renting family homes in reasonably sized cities for 50+ years and let me know how that looks.

This is what I believe as well. Everyone with no kids and work at home jobs thinks renting is the best option.

After five years, my mortgage payment goes down substantially. Then I can invest the difference. But I can’t find a comparable place to rent for my family at that price – nope, it’ll be much more. But “move to PEI” they’ll scream.

#68 For those about to flop... on 07.18.18 at 10:03 pm

Pink Lemonade Stand in Richmond.

Here’s another condo in trouble to bolster my attached folder to work out what is happening in that particular segment.

Picked up for 589k late last year,their latest reduction is a strategy I see all the time.

Start high, and then after realizing it’s not going to fly ,drop the price down to where the purchaser pays for the expenses.

Try and walk away with your dignity and a Pink Draw.

It has been my experience in the past with looking for Pink Snow in condos,especially in Richmond ,that when you find one person in trouble there is normally several as someone refused to tow the line and bailed and in other cases simply overpaid at pre -sale and the market, although elevated ,never caught up.

If I don’t find someone else in trouble I will change my name to Flopper McFloatface…

M44BC

226 9388 Mckim Way, Richmond paid 589k November 2017 ass 532.

Jul 10:$668,800
Jul 17: $628,888
Change: – 39912.00 -6%

https://www.zolo.ca/richmond-real-estate/9388-mckim-way/226

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a donation.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#69 Steerage Wisdom on 07.18.18 at 10:26 pm

#61 S.Bby on 07.18.18 at 9:30 pm

#51 Mattl
What did the renter do with all the extra money they saved by renting? Buy a lot of pizza?

….
Enjoying life?

“I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.”

#70 For those about to flop... on 07.18.18 at 10:27 pm

So these guys in the same building are one reduction away from being in the same boat.

They dragged each other up and now they could drag each other down.

There were 4 or 5 luxury condominiums chasing close to 4 million and one guy bailed for 3 million and the stool had one less leg on it for the others in the complex.

Did not get an invite to the annual barbecue…

M44BC

417 -9388 McKiim Way ,Richmond.

Paid 605

Asking 689

Assessment 633

https://www.rew.ca/properties/R2290028/417-9388-mckim-way-richmond-bc?search_id=richmond-bc&search_type=property_browse

#71 LP on 07.18.18 at 10:37 pm

#64 SoggyShorts on 07.18.18 at 9:47 pm

I thought it was, “Never buy real estate that you can’t flush a toilet in”, or something like that.

F71ON

#72 New West on 07.18.18 at 10:49 pm

I’m pretty sure you meant to address your comment to Howard not me.
#34 New West on 07.18.18 at 6:58 pm

Hi Chico,

Yes I did mean Howard. Apologies! You certainly understand the madness out here.

By the way I enjoy your posts – I’ve thought about heading east and living in Halifax, close to the ocean, lots of reasonable places to live, so much closer to Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa…..I’ve got family living around Wolfville who I will be visiting next year, so I’ll start thinking about it then.

It’s hard. I’ve lived in the Lower Mainland all my life, like your wife. But it’s feeling less and less like home.

#73 LP on 07.18.18 at 10:52 pm

#42 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 7:53 pm

I do think a guy who sat in a cubicle poking at a computer for 40 years will have issues. It takes a level of physical and mental toughness to do that kind of work, a paper shuffler might not be able to go the distance.
******************************************

Yeah, especially if that guy’s name is Karen.

F71ON

#74 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 07.18.18 at 11:22 pm

Do you think Trudeau is an independent thinker or is he just mouthing a party line being fed him by the likes of Obama? Read this speech by Obama in S Africa and compare it to the speech Groper gave in NYC.

https://www.breitbart.com/economics/2018/07/17/obama-abolish-the-nation-state/

The globalists have recruited the weakest minds in Trudeau and Zuckerberg to regurgitate the one state world proposed by Merkel and Obama. Remember it was Trudeau who stated that Canada didn’t exist anymore…only as a post national entity open to any who deserved it more than the citizens who live there. He proposed repopulating the country using exactly the same speeches already given by Obama, Merkel, Junker and Soros.

How Zuckerberg let himself get sucked into this sane toilet brain logic is likely a deeply flawed personality constraint at work.

Canada is being sucked dry by foreign interests because of the weak and disinterested minds in the Canadian government.

Canada is about to thrown under the bus by Mexico which is much more politically important to the US than is Canada. Trump is pouring diplomacy aka billions in promises to the new regime. Trump will head off Mexican emigration with a new Marshall Plan for Mexico….which will harden the Mexican border with Central America. This will end run Trudeau’s anti Trump simpering diatribe.

Word is Europe is close to capitulating on a trade deal….
Trump is fencing Canada out of all negotiations…..”It will cost Canada a lot of money”…..Trump’s words….listen to the man….he keeps his promises.

China has spent two thirds of it’s foreign resetves already ytd…..they will make a deal…..especially without Canada,

China’s retail investor is being decimated and Xie risks a total collapse immananently. Let’s see what happens if the 88% of Chinese retail investors will soldier on in silence as losses mount….
I doubt it.

Pissing off Trump on behalf of Obama and Soros was a really bad deal for Canada. The leftist resistance alliance is collapsing.

Putin has offered to host Meuller and the conspiracy theory Democrats to interview the Russians they sought to extradite…..effectively snuffing Meullers collusion candle out…..the Femocraps are done. In reality the only thing Russian hackers exposed was Hillary and Company’s illegal activity. It was James Comes ridiculous miscalculation to expose Hillary six weeks before the election that drowned her aspirations.

Let’s get real, the Trumpian Noose is tightening around Trudeau’s neck and Canada will pay dearly. Yesterdays cabinet shuffle is Kabuki theater level obfuscation, the head that should have rolled was Gropers.

All Obama’s allies are headed for cover and Canada is about to thrown under the bus. You heard it here first…bankable.

#75 Nonplused on 07.18.18 at 11:37 pm

I don’t think it’s right that HELOC’s don’t have compound interest. As I understand it, if you borrow money using a HELOC and don’t make a payment, that payment is added to the principle and thus subject to further interest charges. Thus if you don’t pay you do end up paying interest on interest.

However they still might be a better option than a reverse mortgage. Why borrow $400,000 (just using the example) and start paying interest on all of it right away if you only need $3,000 this month? Borrow the $3,000 from your HELOC and pay interest on only $3,000. Sure, you might be paying interest on that $3,000 for the rest of your life, but that’s better than $400,000.

The “equity” in your house will last a lot longer if you “tail-end” load the interest charges using a HELOC than it will if you use a reverse mortgage and take out a lump sum, especially since the interest on a reverse mortgage is higher and the amount of time you have a large outstanding balance is shorter. But yes you still have to sell when you get to the limits of what you can withdraw from your HELOC, and you might not be dead yet.

Nobody who has access to a payment optional HELOC should ever take a reverse mortgage.

#76 Oft deleted much maligned stock picker on 07.18.18 at 11:41 pm

PS….there is strong discussion that George Soros will be under indictment before Trumps current term ends. The mid term sweep will have wiped out Democrats ability to affect change continue with Soros money and he will be exposed. He likely knows this and has transferred his entire net worth , 19.5 billion, into a trust run by his son. Of course this won’t stand because his charges will include crimes before his manoever and you can’t practice to deceive the law. The question being asked is who will he roll over on? He’s likely got a zillions of iother passports but will he seek asylum in Canada? Some say yes.

#77 Linda on 07.18.18 at 11:43 pm

In the rent vs. home ownership debate, the point is made that renters can potentially invest funds that home ownership would have used up.

As per one recent news article, some 40% of Canadians are paying at least one third of their income towards rent. Average rent for a 2 bedroom in Canada as per the most recent stats is $989 per month. Rates vary between cities with Vancouver in first place for the highest average monthly rent.

If so many are paying such a high percentage of their income for shelter it is likely that the amount of money available to invest will be quite small & the accumulated amount over time will likely be much less than some of the examples in the comment section.

#78 WUL on 07.19.18 at 12:24 am

Turner,

This kennel of a comment section was brilliant tonight. Made me chuckle.
******

#63 International Harvester Crawler Tractor…

“I plan on dying at home if possible.”

I am not like you. I am not planning to die anywhere. Ever.

#79 Buy? Curious? on 07.19.18 at 1:28 am

Hey Garth! I figured out why I hate Boomers so much. It’s not just because they are innately hypocritical, it’s that these old geezers are still trying to compete. Old people should have their own city, serviced by robots, with no news show like CNN or Fox. (Why do old people care so much about Trump? My parents get so worked up when I tell them that really, America was never great in the first place.) Calm down, geezers. Enjoy the sunset and quick your complaining.

#80 Smoking Man on 07.19.18 at 1:43 am

Per capita California has more weirdos per sq mile than any other place on earth.

I finally found a place I can call home.

#81 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 07.19.18 at 2:10 am

Arrrggghhhh…hate to niggle….on the last paragraph….a suggestion…innocent enough….plausible yes….
To arrange a HELOC before you retire. But with little income it’s a new debt that needs being serviced. She had said she has very limited income. Cash is spent but debt remains. Second…..HELOC is a demand loan extended on current circumstances upon grant….retirenent to zero income is a big change in the agreement that might trigger a call and a demand for full repayment…..resulting in forced sale as demand loans stipulate thirty days repayment…..

She’s better off to sell and relocate
$800,000 and a small pension would easily pay cash for a nice Villa with a pool close to shopping etc….(200,000 buys a really nice place ten years old in a European community..hated and secure with all the fudgesticks) in Thailand . With the sunshine here you have an active lifestyle and can’t eat $2000 in a month. No property taxes….super cheap utilities and services. Just dayin…..even without a return on a 600k portfolio she’s good for thirty years of comfort. And seriously, health care here is a breeze, and I’m home better than Canadian standards…..great hospitals.

#82 SoggyShorts on 07.19.18 at 2:23 am

#70 LP on 07.18.18 at 10:37 pm
#64 SoggyShorts on 07.18.18 at 9:47 pm

I thought it was, “Never buy real estate that you can’t flush a toilet in”, or something like that.

F71ON
*******************
Wouldn’t that be a better #2 rule? HAHA pewp joke!

#83 Hamsterwheelie on 07.19.18 at 7:23 am

This post is great info, I always wondered what ‘the catch’ was on those reverse mortgages was. We’re mid 40’s and built a unit inside a house downtown, close to everything, that will allow us to ‘age in place’ if we want to. No stairs except to the basement, no tub shower with room for a chair, parking at grade near the door and income from 3 other units in the house. If we can, if he agrees, we will move my dad into one of them soonish (also accessible at grade etc) Its not the same as a portfolio but its better than a reverse mortgage, a house that pays us to live there :-)

#84 NoName on 07.19.18 at 8:08 am

Gold

The South Korean Shinil Group, which discovered the wreck, plans to recover the gold sometime later this year with help from companies in China, Canada, and the U.K. At the time of her sinking Donskoi was reportedly carrying 5,500 boxes of gold bars and 200 tons of gold coins with a street value today of $130 billion. That’s more than twice Russia’s 2017 defense budget, which was $61 billion. If the treasure does materialize, the Russian government will receive half of the recovered amount.

https://m.slashdot.org/story/343552

#85 Andrew J on 07.19.18 at 8:11 am

Great post – thank you Garth! My mom will likely be in a similar situation soon, and I will make sure to steer her clear of a reverse mortgage.

#86 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.19.18 at 8:21 am

DELETED

#87 fancy_pants on 07.19.18 at 9:28 am

Garth, in general terms, if one rents out a portion of their house (primary residence), say their basement, is it not true that upon the sale of the residence, a capital gain will have to be claimed for that portion? If so, could they ever claim a capital loss in a falling market?

#88 IHCTD9 on 07.19.18 at 9:46 am

#72 LP on 07.18.18 at 10:52 pm
#42 IHCTD9 on 07.18.18 at 7:53 pm

I do think a guy who sat in a cubicle poking at a computer for 40 years will have issues. It takes a level of physical and mental toughness to do that kind of work, a paper shuffler might not be able to go the distance.
******************************************

Yeah, especially if that guy’s name is Karen.

F71ON
_______

I fully expect that all old Women will pour concrete and lay block just as soon as an old Man would.

Down with the Patriarchy.

#89 Randy Calloway on 07.19.18 at 9:48 am

This is why people don’t understand that saving is only the only.

They only look at the 1.5% to 3.5% rates they get on their savings in savings accounts, GIC’s, term deposits.

The fact is when you have savings, you are already way ahead of the game. You will not pay interest and late charges of 18% to 33% on credit cards, up to 300% to 800% on payday loans, 18% to 36% on utility bill late charges, 15%+ on late property taxes and 6.78% on reverse mortgages etc.

This is why the low interest rate trap got alot of suckers and still is going. Think people think.

#90 fancy_pants on 07.19.18 at 9:52 am

#79 Smoking Man on 07.19.18 at 1:43 am

Good to hear you made it through the blue wall. Have you toured SF yet? I suggest closed-toe shoes during that venture. Mind your step. Lots of homeless there. Shame on us though, we thought you were so against herd mentality. ps, keep the red ball cap in your bag.

#91 45north on 07.19.18 at 10:30 am

stock.picker: Do you think Trudeau is an independent thinker or is he just mouthing a party line being fed him by the likes of Obama? Read this speech by Obama in S Africa and compare it to the speech Groper gave in NYC.
https://www.breitbart.com/economics/2018/07/17/obama-abolish-the-nation-state/

Canada is about to thrown under the bus by Mexico which is much more politically important to the US than is Canada. Trump is pouring diplomacy aka billions in promises to the new regime. Trump will head off Mexican emigration with a new Marshall Plan for Mexico….which will harden the Mexican border with Central America. This will end run Trudeau’s anti Trump simpering diatribe.

I got the vibe that Trump was really put off by Justin Trudeau’s speech at the end of the G7. The one he gave after everybody else had left. What an idiot.

#92 Smoking Man on 07.19.18 at 11:09 am

DELETED

#93 bill on 07.19.18 at 11:17 am

#37 Vision on 07.18.18 at 7:21 pm
very true.
in my parents case increasingly ‘bad’ decisions based on the previous ‘bad’ decision…

#94 Travis on 07.19.18 at 11:19 am

#13 Howard on 07.18.18 at 4:56 pm

Chico #3

Very hard time believing this story. These complete strangers told you such specific details of their, and their son’s, financial lives?

———————————————————
In order for their to be a problem with the story I relayed, one would have to come up with a motive for making up such a story. What do you suggest my ulterior motive would be? I’m a nameless, faceless individual who lives in Nova Scotia and who rarely every posts any comments on this blog anymore. I have nothing to gain by making up such a story, considering no one on the blog knows who I am.

*******

Sometimes people like to share for no reason.

When I was living in Fredericton, we had a woman in the apartment building who would share everything about her personal life in the laundry room with anyone who happened to be there. I learned way more about her boyfriends, unexpected pregnancy, miscarriage, personal health, etc than I cared to know.

Last time I was at a New Year’s party in Toronto people started talking about their mortgage rates and how much their property appreciated in value. Again, more than I’d ever care to know.

Out west we’re friendly, and maybe it’s just my friends/family, but the reflex response to a stranger’s request for personal details is “what business is it of yours?” and we’ll politely listen without offering our info.

#95 James on 07.19.18 at 11:28 am

#90 45north on 07.19.18 at 10:30 am

stock.picker: Do you think Trudeau is an independent thinker or is he just mouthing a party line being fed him by the likes of Obama? Read this speech by Obama in S Africa and compare it to the speech Groper gave in NYC.
https://www.breitbart.com/economics/2018/07/17/obama-abolish-the-nation-state/

Canada is about to thrown under the bus by Mexico which is much more politically important to the US than is Canada. Trump is pouring diplomacy aka billions in promises to the new regime. Trump will head off Mexican emigration with a new Marshall Plan for Mexico….which will harden the Mexican border with Central America. This will end run Trudeau’s anti Trump simpering diatribe.

I got the vibe that Trump was really put off by Justin Trudeau’s speech at the end of the G7. The one he gave after everybody else had left. What an idiot.
_________________________________________
Trudeau is a one pump chump, he will be gone next election. The guy has done nothing for Canada at all.

#96 Sarah Houston on 07.19.18 at 11:51 am

I never bought a house and always rented. I made it a point to put the maximum in my RRSP’s and since 2009 my TFSA’s.

I started with Canada Savings Bonds at 15% rates and GIC’s in the 14% rates. I doubt we will see that again but since I have now $3,000,000 and a $200,000 annual income from my long term bonds, annuities, bell and bank stocks dividends and some GIC’s, I never needed a house.

The $3,000 a month in rent to live in a 2,000 square foot home is a better deal in the long run than owing it.

#97 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 07.19.18 at 12:15 pm

#93… James…..I’m laughing my ass off at Gerald Butts taking control of the national dialogue on anti Trump Trump trade. Gerry is blubbering about a pivot to Asia with our oil……bwahahaha….coming from a guy who says he’ll shut the energy complex down completely by mid century.

Butts is not on the government payroll nor has he been elected…..so who’s paying Bugface to be a “senior advisor” if his so called advice is totally Black ops off the book so that there is no public record of his communications or “advice” to Trudeau? Since Gerald is not on the staff as a civil servant there is no access to his “work” or relationships for FOI rrquests from concerned citizens. Sniff test says Gerald Butts is a direct agent of the Soros network. Or is he another one of Gropers nannies?

But….a pivot to Asia? What Asia? China threw Trudeau out….and they’re trying to make a deal with the us before they collapse.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets/asian-shares-struggle-as-trade-worries-offset-gains-from-wall-street-earnings-idUSKBN1K905P

Butts is full of crap. The cabinet shuffle shows an ignorance of global politics beyond measure. The token Chinese newcomer Ng is Cantonese….the Cantonese are hated by the Mainland Chinese who refer to Cantonese as a language of dogs. This is not the pivot to Asia it’s a smoke and mirrors campaign to shore up Juniors sinking polls.

The PRC is not going to buddy up with Canada to thwart and insult Trump…..far from it. Canada is a pimple on China’s butt….and Butts thinks we’re stupid enough to let him fool us with his desperate nonsense.

The big question is ‘Who is paying Gerald Butts to be Justin’s Rasputin?

#98 PastThePeak on 07.19.18 at 12:36 pm

#93 James on 07.19.18 at 11:28 am

Trudeau is a one pump chump, he will be gone next election. The guy has done nothing for Canada at all.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree with your first and last statements, but disagree on the 2nd (middle). I am afraid that the JT Libs have a reasonable chance of getting re-elected in 2019.

#99 PastThePeak on 07.19.18 at 12:39 pm

#87 IHCTD9 on 07.19.18 at 9:46 am
#72 LP on 07.18.18 at 10:52 pm

Yeah, especially if that guy’s name is Karen.

F71ON
_______

I fully expect that all old Women will pour concrete and lay block just as soon as an old Man would.

Down with the Patriarchy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It’s a good point. Too many here use the wrong gender-based analysis. Women can do everything (& more) than men can…and we should expect that of them…

#100 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 07.19.18 at 1:17 pm

The reality of China’s crumbling economy. Belicose and belligerant becomes the whiny cussing of a paper tiger.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/a-china-borrower-s-us-11b-debt-mountain-comes-crashing-down-1.1110400

All it took was a Trumpian pair of balls to expose the hypocrisy. Obama sat back and allowed China to bulldoze the pristine reefs of the SC Sea……what a nightmare. Where was Greenpeace and the other phonies ?

What was China’s great maritime strentgh ….? One ancient Russian used carrier that launched antique air duds…..and yet the chicken crappets of the world attacked Canada’s resources?

What giant floating hupocrites the Liberals are. Trudeau just made a speech calling conservatives world wide the boogie man…..while he and Obama hide under the sheets and tremble at imaginary bad guys……Man….
You should have seen those fantastic reefs….
So untouched even National Geographic couldn’t reach them . But Green Sleaze and others decided to attack Canada…..easier welfare…eh,?

I sailed out there in the late 70’s on a 42 ft Yrimatan with my buddies…..now no one will ever experience that again….thanks to the manginas like Obama and Trudeau.

Just got to show….when Boyz start dressing like girls…..the bad guys come out of the wood work and do bad things…..so good history.

#101 Joblo on 07.19.18 at 2:10 pm

Hey, oft deleted,
Care to share this Thailand local?
Maybe a bolt spot worth considering?
Cheers

#102 FIsh on 07.19.18 at 2:33 pm

Hopefully rental will be easier to find, or a house if the price is right,

But might have to wait, maybe in the winter

#103 Shawn allen on 07.19.18 at 2:34 pm

More realistic in this case to show cost if she takes so much per month in reverse mortgage rather than $400 k all at once which is not what she needs she needs cash so take monthly

The issue to me is the high interest rate and the compounding off 400 k taken all at once is sobering but not realistic to do in this case

I agree sell and invest is probably best

But taking a grand a month might work for some people

And if you are cash poor let the kids look after themselves they might be seniors themselves by the time she dies and no one should count on an inheritance especially if parents are cash poor

#104 IHCTD9 on 07.19.18 at 2:38 pm

#95 Sarah Houston on 07.19.18 at 11:51 am

I never bought a house and always rented. I made it a point to put the maximum in my RRSP’s and since 2009 my TFSA’s.

I started with Canada Savings Bonds at 15% rates and GIC’s in the 14% rates. I doubt we will see that again but since I have now $3,000,000 and a $200,000 annual income from my long term bonds, annuities, bell and bank stocks dividends and some GIC’s, I never needed a house.

The $3,000 a month in rent to live in a 2,000 square foot home is a better deal in the long run than owing it.
_________

Excellent job! You are likely one in a million folks who have achieved something like this.

Hopefully you did not need a “juicy divorce” or an “even juicier” court settlement to get there (inside joke from yesterday).

#105 fancy_pants on 07.19.18 at 2:48 pm

#91 Smoking Man on 07.19.18 at 11:09 am

This forum is no place to express discord about your surroundings, you will be filtered. We understand your present circumstances are possibly volatile.

A reminder to step lightly, although you are now in the blue state of sanctuary, the discarded needles and feces is certainly a bone to contend with. And remember, don’t imply anything or anyone out there is less than great.

If you feel you are being overpowered by the staunch far-left beliefs and your vision clouds over in a red haze, get the hell out while you still can.

Good luck and peace out, signed (on behalf) the blog dogs

#106 jess on 07.19.18 at 2:54 pm

that is so wise

https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety/common-fraud-schemes/reverse-mortgage-scams

Foreclosures can happen with reverse mortgages
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/retirement/retire-housing/foreclosures-can-happen-with-reverse-mortgages/article34067548/

https://reversemortgagedaily.com/2017/01/18/trump-treasury-picks-ex-firm-subject-of-new-reverse-mortgage-investigation/

33 million scheme to defraud homeowners and banks involving reverse mortgages in New York state and Connecticut.

#107 Duke on 07.19.18 at 3:00 pm

#103 IHCTD9 on 07.19.18 at 2:38 pm
#95 Sarah Houston on 07.19.18 at 11:51 am

I never bought a house and always rented. I made it a point to put the maximum in my RRSP’s and since 2009 my TFSA’s.

I started with Canada Savings Bonds at 15% rates and GIC’s in the 14% rates. I doubt we will see that again but since I have now $3,000,000 and a $200,000 annual income from my long term bonds, annuities, bell and bank stocks dividends and some GIC’s, I never needed a house.

The $3,000 a month in rent to live in a 2,000 square foot home is a better deal in the long run than owing it.
_________

Excellent job! You are likely one in a million folks who have achieved something like this.

Hopefully you did not need a “juicy divorce” or an “even juicier” court settlement to get there (inside joke from yesterday).

================

Sarah’s rental payment is tax deductible which is even better because mortgage interest is not.

#108 Mattl on 07.19.18 at 3:02 pm

61 – this family saved 150k in 40 years, and lived in the home a
l that time at a mortgage that was likely equal to rent. If there was any surplus, it would have been minimal and likely consumed. For every renter saving every dollar saved on home ownership there are likely 10 spending every extra time. All of the rich renter we hear about here are either rich from scrolling on accommodations and saving the difference or made a bucket load on a house sale. Find me a middle class guy renting a set in a major city that’s way ahead over the past 20 years, they don’t exist. Most people are financial misfits and home ownership will be their only path to retirement. This lady is the poster child for why most middle class Canadians should buy homes they can afford, and pay them off.

#109 Shawn allen on 07.19.18 at 3:04 pm

HELOCs require intest payments in this example

That’s because the heloc is maxed? Or because of being a senior or because most helocs do?

#110 jess on 07.19.18 at 3:23 pm

as if the usa needs russian assistance?
Senate votes 98-0 to reject Putin’s proposal to interrogate US officials despite Trump reversal

the latest indictment spells it out clearly –fasinating ,
especially how they tracked the bitcoin!
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/18/mueller-indictment-russian-hackers/

A Swing-State Election Vendor Repeatedly Denied Being Hacked by Russians. The New Mueller Indictment Says Otherwise.
Sam Biddle

July 13 2018, 3:04 p.m.

https://theintercept.com/2018/07/13/a-swing-state-election-vendor-repeatedly-denied-being-hacked-by-russians-new-mueller-indictment-says-otherwise/

#111 Tony on 07.19.18 at 3:27 pm

Re: #107 Mattl on 07.19.18 at 3:02 pm

Edmonton is deemed a major city. Rents have fallen about 20 percent since the start of 2015. Resale apartments and resale townhouses have on average fallen exactly fifty percent in price over the last eleven years. That would be a good proportion of Edmonton.

#112 Fish on 07.19.18 at 3:28 pm

Yes @ 101

TOTALLY agree, take Your TIME, to see
moving in winter time is still easy to do

#113 IHCTD9 on 07.19.18 at 3:31 pm

#98 PastThePeak on 07.19.18 at 12:39 pm

It’s a good point. Too many here use the wrong gender-based analysis. Women can do everything (& more) than men can…and we should expect that of them…
______

I fear Women are falling into traditional gender roles way too often these days.

I work hard to help Women break free of theses old school chains every day.

Just last winter one of our tow motors got buried in muck at work. The tires had dug a huge hole and then hit a massive boulder. Several of my Male and Female subordinates were standing around watching the operator trying to rock the machine out.

I walked up, handed a shovel to the first female subordinate I saw, and told her to get down in the hole and start digging that boulder out. She started making excuses, but I remembered to be careful and not treat her any different than I would a Male subordinate.

So I got right in her face and told her to get her lazy ***** @ss into that ******* hole and start digging, or she’d be kicking pebbles so fast it will make her ******* head spin.

I was actually amazed at how well I was able to treat her equally with a Man – and I know she must have appreciated not getting any special treatment from me.

Someday I hope all genders will play totally equal roles in society…

#114 jess on 07.19.18 at 3:52 pm

want to know how much it secret service costs for the trump son’s business trips?

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/07/you-are-paying-for-the-trump-brothers-to-travel-the-world-on-trump-organization-business/

CREW gets Trump family business Secret Service spending documents

By Jordan Libowitz
July 18, 2018

Taxpayers spent nearly $250,000 on hotels, airfare and other costs for Secret Service protection for Eric and Donald Trump Jr., in one month for two overseas trips by Eric and Donald Trump Jr. in which they visited Trump family businesses, according to documents obtained by CREW.

The Secret Service documents, received through Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests, shed light on how much taxpayers are paying for trips taken by the heads of the president’s private business empire.”

CREW also received documents for the Trump brothers’ trips to Vancouver and Uruguay in April 2017. While some of the costs of these trips have already been made public, including $15,000 spent at a Trump-branded property, the documents—which give a fuller picture of costs—have not.

See the documents here:

https://www.citizensforethics.org/crew-gets-trump-family-business-secret-service-spending-documents/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tiffany-trump-germany-holiday-secret-service-protection-costs-22000-first-family-white-house-a7858836.html

#115 Ubul on 07.19.18 at 4:15 pm

@ Jess
Is russiaphobia a hate speech/crime?

#116 Tony on 07.19.18 at 4:52 pm

Rob Ford the mayor made it to youtube in this unknown video totally unrelated.

Both are identical.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=rob+ford+picture&hl=en-CA&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=u1cENofKwcD4aM%253A%252CnDCimylV9jvgxM%252C_&usg=__OZ7qT4JgslHIiqjq9QRZSgfAYRc%3D&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjT4OHlhKzcAhVE6Y8KHZFECj0Q9QEILTAB#imgrc=u1cENofKwcD4aM:

At the 9:36 mark of this video the exact same picture of Rob Ford.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H-H-QpHwyI

#117 Tony on 07.19.18 at 4:56 pm

Rob Ford first picture:
http://gawker.com/39-breathtaking-photos-of-north-americas-most-photogen-1458983349

This video from youtube one and the same picture at the 9:36 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H-H-QpHwyI

#118 LP on 07.19.18 at 5:11 pm

#112 IHCTD9 on 07.19.18 at 3:31 pm

“One of our tow motors” indicates that you had more than one. Rather than risk the life of an employee, male or female, why didn’t you hook one of the other TMs up to a chain and pull that sucker out?

If you really did want to put an employee in a hole under the wheel of a machine then you are a disgrace to good management.

#119 Chad on 07.19.18 at 5:42 pm

107 – Times change and TFSA were introduced 10 years ago and they really altered the financial picture for all Canadians. Most Canadians get and give terrible financial advice of buy a home no matter what then invest when/if you can afford it. Should be the other way around max out your TFSA and then buy a home when you can afford it or absolutely need it (multiple kids oldest being 5+). Should be able to put at least 10% down without touching your TFSA or TFSA maxing and the house should cost no more than 3.5 times your income.

Need to use home cost vs rent cost not mortgage vs rent as rent includes a bunch of things that mortgages do not. Once property taxes, HOA/condo fees, home owners insurance, maintenance and transaction cost are included the break even point on home ownership is very long currently. Times have changed.

#120 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 07.19.18 at 11:13 pm

#100 Joblo……there are boltholes all over Thailand….you have to find your comfort zone. But….Pattaya….yes infamous Pattaya….has areas quite removed from the tourist wierdness and you’d never know about the famous idiocy if the actually small areas that make so much ink.

As I said…..easy to buy a condo or Villa for or cheap relative to Canada….but come over and rent for a year…stay sober and single……so you can find a place you like….good luck…..but BTW….it is super cheap to live here…..and if you make an effort …it’s paradise on a budget.