The gap

Sunday afternoon. The uppity part of town. Two provincial politicians, opposites, face a daunting crowd to debate a polarizing issue. To wit – should some people pay extra tax because they own more, regardless of what they paid, or earn?

In BC, and especially Vancouver’s Westside, this is burning issue of fairness. The people who own houses pushed absurdly higher by a delusional real estate market says it’s grossly unfair they should now pay more property tax, just ‘cause. Those who wish they had houses say it’s only fair ‘multi-millionaires’ cough up as much as possible, to bridge the wealth divide.

These days the Dipper government is 100% on the side of the have-nots, wannabes, envious and angry. After all, this is politics. There are way more votes on one side of the ledger than the other. Odds are overwhelming the extra property tax that people living in $3 and $4 million properties now face ($2,000 more a year) will stay. The protest that surrounded Sunday’s event is a lost cause. This is class warfare – the first inklings of a progressive wealth tax in Canada, based on real estate.

The new BC levy is an asset tax. It matters not what someone who owns it paid to acquire it, or what they earn (they could be retired and on a fixed income). For that reason the provincial Libs label it a dangerous precedent and some warn such a surtax will migrate down to include $1 million houses (over 90% of all detacheds in YVR would be captured). The radical moister organization ‘Generation Squeeze’ is calling for more – a new 1% surtax on all houses valued at more than seven figures, adding $10,000 a year to the average homeowner’s overhead and essentially doubling their property tax. Because, of course, real estate now = wealth. And the wealthy (mostly Boomers) should hand it over.

Witness some comments in the local media this weekend:

Awww is mean and nasty (NDP cab minister David) Eby going to take some of your precious money if you have a house worth more than $3,000,000. Good for Eby, he should be taxing the wealthy home owners to help fund affordable housing for average people. Working people can no longer afford to live in Vancouver any more, unless steps like this are taken, there will be no one to provide services. Go get them David. I love hearing the wealthy squeal. HaHaHaHa.

Of course, all the money collected in the tony hood wouldn’t build a single six-plex and won’t put anybody into an affordable house but, as you know, that ain’t the point. It’s revenge. This is what happens when wealth inequality builds, then amplified by a phemon like the Canadian real estate bubble. When the masses think of life’s economic unfairness, they have a most visible symbol. Houses.

There is no wealth tax in Canada, yet. Property tax – a levy based on the market value of land and buildings – is the closest cousin. The inherent unfairness of taxing an asset divorced from its acquisition cost of the financial means of its owner, has been recognized by government. That’s why seniors or folks of modest incomes in BC can defer their property tax bills until they sell – when the accumulated amount is deducted from the sale proceeds.

What the provincial NDP is doing is new. The property tax surtax, payable when a property rises to a certain valuation (determined by a government agency), is just a penalty for an event the owner had nothing to do with. Unlike regular property tax – which funds schools, garbage collection, cops and area first responders – the Westside Wallop will go into general government coffers. So it’s existence as a wealth tax is confirmed.

Now that we have a new uber tax bracket in Canada, thanks to T2, and the marginal rate on incomes has drifted up to the 53% mark, there’s not a lot of room left to Hoover up what higher-income people earn. Despite that, the Ontario NDP (if elected) are proposing to boost the top rate to a withering 55%. (We may be 11 days from a fateful night in Toronto.)

So, like the Gen Squeeze people insist, wealth taxes are coming as the Canadian political landscape leans left. As stated, that will target real estate.

And here’s the irony – that’s not where the wealthy actually keep their riches. Check out this chart from New York University’s Edward Wolff. While the data is American, the results would be even more skewed in Canada, where house lust is unbridled.

The conclusion? Real estate ownership is a middle-class obsession. The top 1% of society have just 10% of their net worth in property. The bottom 90%, in contrast, are obsessed with houses – with almost 60% of wealth tied up there. It’s no coincidence, either, that the amount of debt carried by the rabble (74%) is crushing, as people over-reach, over-leverage and over-pay for assets they could rent and use for a fraction of the cost.

Tax the wealth? Be careful what you wish for, kids.

230 comments ↓

#1 I’m stupid on 05.27.18 at 1:36 pm

As I’ve said before, govt should look at net worth before handing out free govt money. If you have a net worth of 2 million but zero income your eligible for OAS. In contrast if you have a net worth of 0 but a pension of 60k a year you’re not. I’m saying it’s old age welfare and should only be given to those that actually need it. In my example neither should be eligible. Cutting spending and helping Canadians that need help should be the focus of govt policy.

#2 MGTOW Canadian Millenial on 05.27.18 at 1:55 pm

The bride looks faker than Rona Ambrose.

#3 Wealth tax coming to Canada – More from Ab Irato on 05.27.18 at 1:55 pm

[…] The gap http://www.greaterfool.ca/2018/05/27/the-gap/amp/ […]

#4 Smoked lobster on 05.27.18 at 2:00 pm

Welcome back to canuckistan smoker dude.. you look like a drunken roasted lobster

#5 Fake News Again on 05.27.18 at 2:05 pm

The 1% also do not keep their money in Marxist/Socialist Canada……..

#6 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.27.18 at 2:07 pm

Unfortunately, while the “Us vs Them” mentality is rearing its ugly head in Canadian politics.
It cant be just left leaning Millenial voters electing dippers…..
BC and Alberta voters were fed up with the reigning party’s arrogance and perceived corruption.

Throw the bums out and clean the slate.
Suffer through four years of socialist stupidity.
Throw THOSE bums out and repeat.
We’re turning into Italy…..

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZoM7SvabbAhWMyoMKHZFCDOkQFghAMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.euronews.com%2F2016%2F12%2F13%2Fwhy-do-italian-governments-change-so-often&usg=AOvVaw2sv3AzbIz72hmkpBxJDNRH

65 Prime Ministers since 1946…..almost 1 a year…

#7 For those about to flop... on 05.27.18 at 2:07 pm

See Lead Paint….just another Tasmanian getting ready to do his Speedometer check…

M43BC

#8 Keith on 05.27.18 at 2:08 pm

Cutting taxes on high income earners has been the dominant trend of the last five decades, with occasional rollback resulting in oceans of ink being spilled about the unfair treatment of the high income earners and their irreplaceable contribution to society soon to disappear. Yes we have a top marginal rate of 53%, it used to be 90%. It has fallen by a staggering amount.

Incomes of the “middle class” have remained stagnant, so governments have to pay for the tax cuts on the top income earners, the 10% or so who have gotten pay rises actually above the rate of inflation. Thus we have had the proliferation of and over inflation rate increases in those nasty non progressive government fees, ferry fares, hydro rates etc. Of course, the average top 1% of income earners in B.C. has plenty of spare change out of the $39,000 cut in provincial income taxes handed to them on a platter by the previous B.C. Liberal government. Not that it was financed by those mythical right wing “efficiencies” but more by a ten year freeze in welfare rates, including the disability rate, and a ten year freeze in the minimum wage in the “best provincial economy in Canada.”

So the money has to come from somewhere, and since the wealthiest in B.C. aren’t paying it out in wages and salaries, or in vastly reduced income taxes, that leaves assets. In B.C. that means going after asset rich homeowners.

It is politically difficult to increase any tax in Canada. The B.C. NDP is simply doing it in a way that is politically possible, by taxing the unearned gains of a relatively few people. It plays on envy, jealousy, demographics for sure but by itself it won’t cost them a lot of votes in their base.

.

#9 salted on 05.27.18 at 2:09 pm

It’s smoking man…

#10 mike from mtl on 05.27.18 at 2:11 pm

Point is well taken but that chart is a bit misleading. Especially since that’s US data, the 1%ers I assume in the 10-100M range so even a few million in primary residence is for sure small percent wise. Of course real estate as an asset does not scale linearly, for the 99% primary residence would naturally take the vast majority of their NW.

#11 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.27.18 at 2:13 pm

@# 9 salted
“Its Smoking Man”
++++++

Ahahahahahahahaha.

Speedo Man

#12 Reality is stark on 05.27.18 at 2:14 pm

That is not the beauty of it.
What makes the tax wonderful is that the government was responsible for creating the fake wealth.
Instead of educating the masses with an emphasis on science we focus on social justice. Jobs exit forcing the government to reduce interest rates for an extended period to stimulate the economy and create jobs. The government doesn’t care that the jobs are created in residential construction, building assets that don’t add to our productive capacity.
Now the governments dramatically increase taxes on these assets as an additional insult. They are able to increase tax revenue by being irresponsible.
The government calls this fairness but overall we are all much worse off. The whole debacle is actually tragic. The Canadian people are blind to how they are being hosed. A lot of their naïveté is due to their financial illiteracy as a result of the moronic education offered by the government.

#13 Vampire studies on 05.27.18 at 2:15 pm

1 stupid – a 60k pension represents a considerable net worth

#14 Damifino on 05.27.18 at 2:23 pm

I’m so happy I exited residential real estate when I did. What a silly, pointless obsession. An increasing number rentals buildings are under construction here in YVR.

For example: https://arton6th.com

Some developers are seeing the writing on the wall. They now cater to those with actual investable wealth and those who will soon liquidate their insanely priced homes.

#15 -80% YVR Bear on 05.27.18 at 2:24 pm

Maybe Generation Squeeze is on to something.

How much would a 1% tax on all properties over 1,000,000$ raise?

If it’s quite high, we could get 10$ daycares or built more hospitals.

#16 jess on 05.27.18 at 2:32 pm

speaking of the wealthy somewhere and nowhere

I remember that proud announcement the first african female billionaire

Shell, Eni and their executives have denied all charges.

A Shell statement sent to Global Witness on 28th March 2018 said: “Shell filed a criminal complaint with the Dutch authorities because we suspect a crime may have been committed against Shell by a former employee in relation to the sale of Oil Mining Lease (OML) 42 in Nigeria in 2011. Based on what we know from an internal investigation, we suspect this is a case of possible kickbacks, related to the actions of a former employee who left Shell more than three years ago. The individual in question is Peter Robinson, then VP Commercial Sub-Saharan Africa.” Shell also stated “that based on what we know today, the OML 42 issue is unrelated to the OPL 245 settlement.”

An Eni executive Roberto Casula, who will also stand trial in Milan over the OPL 245 case, took a leave of absence from the company in April. Mr. Casula told Reuters in an emailed comment: “Noting the recent allegations made against me, and given the esteem in which I hold our business and colleagues, I have decided to take a temporary leave of absence from work. My primary objective is to fully and promptly address these allegations and cooperate to the fullest extent with the judicial authorities.”

For years, Shell had claimed that it only paid the Nigerian Government for the OPL 245 oil block. But after the joint investigations of Global Witness and UK investigative journalism group Finance Uncovered, Shell confessed it had dealt with convicted money launderer and former oil minister Dan Etete. Etete had awarded the OPL 245 oil block to his secretly owned company, Malabu, while serving as Oil Minister.

The case against Eni and Shell brought by the Milan Public Prosecutor alleges that $520 million from the deal was converted into cash and intended to be paid to the then Nigerian President Goodluck Jonathan, members of the government and other Nigerian government officials. The prosecutor further alleges that money was also channelled to Eni and Shell executives with $50 million in cash delivered to the home of Eni’s then Head of Business for Sub-Saharan Africa, Roberto Casula.

“This is not a case involving a few rotten apples,” said Nick Hildyard of Corner House. “The evidence points to systemic corruption – from the top down. In this case Italy has championed the rule of law over abusive corporate power.”read more @

https://www.globalwitness.org/en/press-releases/unprecedented-corporate-bribery-trial-kicks-against-shell-eni-ceo-and-executives/

#17 Samuel on 05.27.18 at 2:34 pm

Misleading. The 1% still own a house. They just have a ton more cash to spread around.

#18 Barb on 05.27.18 at 2:36 pm

Now aren’t we sorry we encouraged all those greedy, self-centered young folks to vote?

I know I am.

#19 Real Estate on 05.27.18 at 2:42 pm

I was just looking at a home built in 1973 located in a small city center. Just 3,000 sq. feet, fully renovated, lot size 18,000 sq. ft., wood fireplace, energy efficient, and nicely landscaped with low property taxes. Nice forested area in the backyard, so burning wood costs nothing, and the cost per sq. ft. amounts to $87.47. It even has a heat pump for further heating, and air conditioning. They are out there, but not big enough for me lol. The greater fools can buy a boxed condo instead in the GTA.

#20 Camille on 05.27.18 at 2:46 pm

The chart is probably misleading. Wealthy can only own so much house. No wealth tax on the horizon. But of course Garth is right. Law of thermodynamics, entropy. Wealth confiscation is bad, starts slow, accelerates.

#21 Honey Dripper on 05.27.18 at 2:54 pm

Paying rent in Ontario is also crushing! You have to live somewhere.

#22 Shawn on 05.27.18 at 2:59 pm

Buy VFV

#23 joeph on 05.27.18 at 3:24 pm

ONCE AGAIN ………..PEOPLE BUYING NOW TO RUN AWAY FROM THE WORTHLESS CANADIAN DOLLAR………..
AM I RIGHT????

#24 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 3:25 pm

Tax the wealth? Be careful what you wish for, kids.

—————————

Sick and tired of these warnings/to be careful.

No matter what you do, the government will take it one way or another, if you leave it within their reach.

Not so long ago there were bunch of people on this blog laughing at small Business owners an doctors being screwed by greedy and corrupt politicians.

Now it is their turn, if you are rich and have an expensive house, man up and pay you taxes, please.

Fairness above all, remember?

Sweet music for my ears. How much better can it get?
Confiscation of pension funds, anyone?

Well, it seems our ‘rock star’ financial minister is considering raiding pension funds to build pipelines as no one wants to invest in this place anymore, what do you think will be return on (your pension) investments in this case?

BTW Ontario’s delusions with getting further and deeper in debt in order to transfer the cost of electricity to future generations so it can be more ‘affordable’ now is just another example of how dangerous politicians can really be.

To all winners from the Housing Lottery:
congratulations.

Now pay up.

#25 RE Surprise on 05.27.18 at 3:39 pm

The home as specified has a twist because in this built up area it also includes a second building lot beside it of 11,548 sq. ft.. No problem if you don’t want it, simply discount the listed value further. A young married couple could have it all, and decide what to do with the other lot; sell or build a home themselves as a project to sell later. Lots of opportunity outside the GTA.

#26 Niagara Region on 05.27.18 at 3:56 pm

Garth, thanks for the helpful chart. You raise a great point: the tax on homes might disproportionately tax the middle classes and not the truly wealthy. How do we more effectively tax specifically the top 10% of the population who owns more than 50% of the country’s wealth? As numerous economists have proven, there has been an increasing shift of wealth starting in the 1960s towards the top 10% in the U.S. and a corresponding drop in workers’ earnings, standards of living, and wealth. Simultaneously, since the 1960s, there has been a steadily decreasing rate of taxation on the truly wealthy. How do we tax more heavily the billionaires and stop the shift of the tax burden to the middle classes and working classes? For the U.S., I know a few places to start: jettison Trump’s new tax law; reinstate the inheritance tax, which only applies to massive estates; stop the off-shoring tax havens for money; and consistently tax corporate profits. Any more ideas?

If people want the names of some of the top 10-percent in the U.S., here is a fascinating 1-hour documentary by one of the Johnson & Johnson heirs, Born Rich: Children of the Insanely Wealthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km_JmxnzTvc

Regarding Britain, for the royal wedding last week, the royal family paid 2 million pounds, while the British taxpayers paid 30 million pounds. This wanton waste of taxpayer money gives new meaning to the term “Welfare Queen.” (Source: https://www.democracynow.org/2018/5/22/royal_wedding_celebrated_black_culture_but)

#27 Buy? Curious? on 05.27.18 at 3:59 pm

Hey Garth! I haven’t read your post yet but as someone who has been reading your blog every day for the past 10 years, the picture today is the best! The BEST! Why? It’s typical of old people (aka Baby Boomers, aka Hoarders, aka Greediest Generation in all of human history!) They care only for themselves. I can’t wait to see another NDP Ont gov’t. I hope they cut senior citizens’ programs to the bone. They are to blame for the state the country is in.

#28 Damifino on 05.27.18 at 4:01 pm

#23 Stan Brooks

if you are rich and have an expensive house, man up and pay you taxes, please.
——————————-

They are already paying their taxes. It’s the surtax to which they object. That, and the ungentlemanly practice of moving the goalposts for political gain.

#29 Penny Henny on 05.27.18 at 4:02 pm

#96 Penny Henny on 05.27.18 at 9:18 am
Another example of “The book according to Mark 2013” being wrong :(

Bought in 2013 for $575,000 sold in 2018 for $976,000 with only minor updates completed. Would have went for more last March!

////////////

I forgot the link. here it is. what a dummy I am, but at least I’m not delusional :)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/article-buyers-pounce-on-toronto-bungalow-priced-under-1-million/

#30 eightlock90 on 05.27.18 at 4:09 pm

The unintended consequence of quantitative easing is massive income inequality. QE boosted the price of real estate and shares via stock buy backs. People who were already invested in these asset classes when QE began have seen incredible returns.However as soon as QE unwinds all of this ‘wealth’ will disappear.

Politicians are using inflated asset markets as a vehicle to get themselves into power. They are now imposing taxes on us that we will never get rid of.

#31 KLNR on 05.27.18 at 4:20 pm

@#16 Samuel on 05.27.18 at 2:34 pm
Misleading. The 1% still own a house. They just have a ton more cash to spread around.
____________________________
Bingo.

#32 our pal Val on 05.27.18 at 4:21 pm

is int it 44% 10 +34

#33 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 4:23 pm

#27 Damifino on 05.27.18 at 4:01 pm
#23 Stan Brooks

if you are rich and have an expensive house, man up and pay you taxes, please.
——————————-

They are already paying their taxes. It’s the surtax to which they object. That, and the ungentlemanly practice of moving the goalposts for political gain

———————————

That was the case with the doctors and small business owners as well.

T2 and more-tax-now wanted more. As it was ‘fair’.

So no sympathy for wealthy house owners.
It is very fair for the wealthy to pay more.

#34 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 4:24 pm

#27 Damifino on 05.27.18 at 4:01 pm
#23 Stan Brooks

if you are rich and have an expensive house, man up and pay you taxes, please.
——————————-

They are already paying their taxes. It’s the surtax to which they object. That, and the ungentlemanly practice of moving the goalposts for political gain

———————————

ungentlemanly?

This is Canada man.

#35 Penny Henny on 05.27.18 at 4:26 pm

The conclusion? Real estate ownership is a middle-class obsession. The top 1% of society have just 10% of their net worth in property. The bottom 90%, in contrast, are obsessed with houses – with almost 60% of wealth tied up there.-GT
///////////////////

To me the chart tells me that the top 1% hold 10% of the ‘total net equity (of everyone)’ in residential property.
Otherwise how could they have 10% of ‘their’ net equity is residential, another 63% in business equity, another 55% financial securities, and so on right down the line

#36 theoryAndPractice on 05.27.18 at 4:29 pm

The conclusion? Real estate ownership is a middle-class obsession. The top 1% of society have just 10% of their net worth in property. -GT
—————————————————-

This chart is a bit deceptive…
I think the chart says , Top 1% holds 34% of share of total non-home real estate category, while having a share of 10% in principal residence properties category. (the chart does not display if this 10% equals to what percentage of 1%’ers total assets). The chart does not display any correlation between any category.

And 2nd bar graphs is wrong, it sums up to 101% = 55+40+6.

#37 Millennial Realist on 05.27.18 at 4:30 pm

SOOOooooooo Paleo, Garth!

You Boomers just don’t get it.

Or rather, you got it ALL, for next to nothing, and you think you earned it!

Be part of the change.

Or be run over by it.

Simple choices, Boomers.

Fairness.

Or your generation is toast, in every way.

#38 Hairhead on 05.27.18 at 4:31 pm

This is what drives me crazy.

The BC Liberals were corrupt, top to bottom. They facilitated all of the RE shennanigans which distorted the market. They tolerated all of the crime groups laundering their money through the casinos and residential real estate. They sold BC Rail. I could go on for paragraphs. They were, and are, slime. Grafters and thieves, the lot!

So we elect the NDP.

Aaaand . . . they’re idiots.

The NDP’s “speculation tax” is NOT a speculation tax. A speculation tax hits the transactions of the speculators and takes away their profit, slowing or stopping the speculation.

This wealth tax ENCOURAGES people to sell their overvalued houses and ENCOURAGES the people who buy those houses to SELL AGAIN QUICKLY — so as to avoid the tax!

In other words, it is not only NOT a speculation tax — it actually ENCOURAGES speculation.

Besides, it’s bad politics. People will feel sorry for overvalued-house-owners, and because most of the voters aspire to be $3m-assessed-homeowners, will turn on the NDP before they have had a chance to cleanse the province of corruption.

Then the Liberals will be voted in again, and resume looting the province.

Aaargh! Can we ever get political parties which are both non-corrupt AND competent?

#39 Blacksheep on 05.27.18 at 4:34 pm

Shawn # 105,

I claimed the operational costs of running, all levels of government are largely subsidised by the private sector.

Lets cut this to the core.

Where do actual monies, come from to start with?

96% of $’s in our modern societies circulation, comes from ‘money creation’ via the chartered banks capability along private citizens, to create new deposits.
(This is long established here, I consider it a necessity / benefit to society and NOT a new source of debate so lets not get distracted and stay on track.)

Source:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf

Do governments have the ability to create monies, independent of a chartered bank?

1) Municipal (no)
2) Provincial (no)
3) Federal / sovereign in control (no)

So let’s look at 3) the sovereign. Can this level of Gov. just snap its fingers and create $’s from nothing, without incurring a new debt because it controls its own currency? Theoretically, no. Not without severe consequences (It must sell bonds like other levels of gov. to aquire $’s. It’s a more complicated than that but do not want to get distracted, so will stop there.)

Why else are there national debts?

The take away, all levels of government must live within the funds collected taxed from the ‘citizens’, (not getting into MMT) plus any debts /deficits said gov. chooses to run, eventually paid by the ‘citizens’ and of course, whatever funds (tolls/fees/permits ect.) it has the ability to collect, again paid by the ‘citizens’, in its operations as a government. This was my reference to the private sector subsidy required.

Since governments are generally mandated to not compete with the private sector (a good thing) for profits by running corporations and if they do, its supposed to just break even. They do not act like a private corp. by starting a venture, borrowing new $’s into existence (new deposits) and then proceed to charge the free market as much as it will tolerate for its services.

This means the gov. absolutely requires a subsidy from the private sector to supply all things a modern society needs and that’s OK with me.

Why the hell else, are some taxed @ Garth’s 53%???

To close…a government employee receives his/her wages from said government for services rendered.

Fair enough and they pay all taxes/fees required from said income.

But where exactly did these $’s to compensate the gov. employee come from?

I think you know.

#40 Tony on 05.27.18 at 4:40 pm

A 55 percent tax will put my brother-in-law into retirement finally. He took stupid investment advice from my brother instead of from me or he would have retired decades ago.

#41 The conservatives on 05.27.18 at 4:48 pm

They put Ford out there and then wonder why they lose

Hahaha

#42 Millenial socialist drivel on 05.27.18 at 4:48 pm

#36 Millennial Realist on 05.27.18 at 4:30 pm

SOOOooooooo Paleo, Garth!

You Boomers just don’t get it.

Or rather, you got it ALL, for next to nothing, and you think you earned it!

Be part of the change.

Or be run over by it.

Simple choices, Boomers.

Fairness.

Or your generation is toast, in every way.


get real dudette…. nothing is fair in life… deal with it.. be a man.

#43 Coackroach on 05.27.18 at 4:51 pm

DELETED

#44 Lee on 05.27.18 at 4:56 pm

Therefore, someone with net worth of $5M has only $500,000 of that net worth in real estate, and not necessarily in a personal residence. That should tell you something?

#45 TurnerNation on 05.27.18 at 4:58 pm

It’s all about our ruling elites RATIONING us.
There’s no shortage of wealth, I mean they have more money than God. No, we must be kept lean, mean and obscene.

Evidence:
Kanada not allowed to access to productive, profitable and needed new gas pipelines.

Ancient technologies like Electricity – a kid can generate it as a school project even – must be held back, controlled and be priced to break our backs with underling labour.

There’s no “Peak oil” only peak carbon taxes. See all those years of screaming oil scarcity at us was not profitable enough. This is.

Foodstuffs – we were told GMO was to feed the world. Except…that food we shop requires an all-in $20 hourly cost for each workers drone, crippling high property taxes driven by UN Agenda “Densification” goals. And endless fees, delivery charges + now carbon taxes on all.

The code words for our enslavement are known as Sustainability, Densification, “Livible Cities [sic].

Wifi is mostly free though. Why, it forms the electronic monitoring web keeping us in line. You are free to leave at any time…

#46 Tony on 05.27.18 at 4:59 pm

Re: #21 Shawn on 05.27.18 at 2:59 pm

Day trade this one this August on the phase III results of the anti-map RHB-104. The news was made public May 14th. Redhill Biopharma Ltd

#47 Let it Hang on 05.27.18 at 5:03 pm

Now that is one cool dude…comfortable in his own skin… millennials could learn a thing or two from him.

#48 SoggyShorts on 05.27.18 at 5:04 pm

#23 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 3:25 pm
To all winners from the Housing Lottery:
congratulations.

Now pay up.
*****************************
How do you know that everyone living in a house that shot up in value is rich? Have you not heard of “house poor”? I’m sure there are plenty of people who “won the house lottery” that don’t have an extra $10K per year for taxes- are you really cheering for them to be forced to sell and move?

#49 Dan on 05.27.18 at 5:15 pm

I don’t get it…so a person who lucked out (or sorry, savvy real estate guru) bought doing the norm for their generation, 30-40 years ago for 2x income, can now cash out 3-4 million but is complaining about a 2k tax hike.

http://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/owners-of-multimillion-dollar-vancouver-home-owners-say-they-cant-stomach-tax-bump

Didn’t Christy Clark tell all the silly mills or locals priced out of Van or lower mainland that Prince George is really nice? Or maybe move to Nunavut and suck it up as is the message here of late.

What has happened to rents the last years in BC? I m pretty sure they have gone up way more than that 2k extra tax on the 3 million dollar home… and renters can’t cash out a few mil tax free if they need money.

Realistically, in BC anyone finishing school or entering the workforce can’t afford to buy without massive help from somewhere (generally), and ask renters who get the boot and reno-evicted or tossed out if their new rent went up over 2k a year.

sometimes I wonder if it really is just local news just pushing buttons-

I mean how do you feel sorry for someone sitting on a tax free massive windfall. Do they print these articles to get people worked up? Probably because Real Estate is absolutely all that matters to Canadians and real estate articles like the above get Canadians all hot and excited. All they need to do is throw in a few vivid marble countertop descriptions and it’s on!

Anyhow, you can’t afford 2k, sell, take your 3 Million tax free and downsize…is this really an issue?

Ok I m being a bit dramatic but explain the difference to me… so young people can’t afford to live in the city, suck it up and leave, but an older couple sitting on a 3 million tax free windfall deserves sympathy? And if you can afford a 3 million dollar house, a 2k tax should be nothing.

Don’t 1 bedroom apartments rent for like 2k a MONTH in Van? Ja, house rich boomers have it really hard.

Those in expensive houses are not asking for ‘sympathy’, but asking not to be arbitrarily taxed because of a market they did not control. Seems reasonable. If they cannot pay the surtax, why should they be forced to sell? It doesn’t make housing more affordable for anyone. – Garth

#50 Suede on 05.27.18 at 5:26 pm

Who is John Galt?

If you don’t know. Look it up quick.

Coming to a province near you.

#51 joeph on 05.27.18 at 5:26 pm

New babe canadian Kids…….. you follow your leader…..

I moved my company to US from Edmonton……….

And you can tax the rich IF YOU THINK IT IS WISE…. Soon YOU WILL BE VERY LONELY …….IN YOUR SHACKS
PRAYING FOR RICH TO COME BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY BACK

#52 Ace Goodheart on 05.27.18 at 5:27 pm

Taxing real estate as wealth will have the following non exhaustive list of results:

1. A reduction of available rentals. You tax my rental buildings as second properties, I sell them. Those who buy them will be doing so to either convert them and love in them or convert them to condos and sell them. Net result? The govt just kicked a bunch of tenants out into the street.

2. Reduction in people who own houses and creation of a wealthy house owning class. Why? Because they are the only folks who can afford the tax on real estate wealth. Owning a property will become an elite thing that only the wealthy and well connected are capable of doing.

3. Creation of a class of “housing refugees”. These people will have been forced out of their houses by their inability to pay the wealth taxes. They will be unable to purchase or rent a new residence because they will owe money in taxes (and possibly also due to mortgage default) meaning their credit will be wrecked and they won’t qualify for a mortgage or pass a rental contract credit check.

Those are three obvious ones I can think of. Anyone come up with any more ?

#53 jess on 05.27.18 at 5:28 pm

“..”it was from the 1940s onwards that national accounts data emerged for the main developed economies. This was largely a response to the evolution in macroeconomic thinking and policy-making following the Great Depression.

Crisis EXPERIENCE led theory which in turn led data.

from 2009

https://www.bis.org/review/r090505e.pdf

=
desert cities
Saudi Arabia’s sleepy city offers prince a cautionary tale
https://www.ft.com/content/ae48574c-58e6-11e8-bdb7-f6677d2e1ce8

=========
image weaponized? crisis experience from
Olga Dolotova, an engineer who survived the attack, remembers seeing white plumes descending before she lost consciousness. When she awoke, she found herself on a bus packed with bodies. “It was such a horror just to look at it,” she said. “Nobody was moving. They put the people there like dolls.”

The theater siege raised concerns about carfentanil as a tool of war or terrorism, and prompted the U.S. to develop strategies to counter its use, according to Weber, the former Defense Department chemical weapons expert.
The powder contained 50 million lethal doses, according to the Canada Border Services Agency — more than enough to wipe out the entire population of the country. It was hidden inside bright blue cartridges labeled as ink for HP LaserJet printers. “Keep out of reach of children,” read the labels, in Chinese.

https://apnews.com/7c85cda5658e46f3a3be95a367f727e6

#54 Joe Schmoe on 05.27.18 at 5:48 pm

The era of dithering continues.

climate change? increase taxes
wealth disparity? increase taxes
people dying from tobacco? increase taxes
alcohol a social issue? increase taxes
rampant increase in drug related deaths? legalize and then add a tax

Things always get better if you just increase taxes.

#55 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 5:49 pm

#47 SoggyShorts on 05.27.18 at 5:04 pm
#23 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 3:25 pm
To all winners from the Housing Lottery:
congratulations.

Now pay up.

*****************************

How do you know that everyone living in a house that shot up in value is rich? Have you not heard of “house poor”? I’m sure there are plenty of people who “won the house lottery” that don’t have an extra $10K per year for taxes- are you really cheering for them to be forced to sell and move?

—————————————–

To sell and move will be the best thing that could happen to them.

So no, I do not wont that.

Let them pay.
What is the problem with asking the rich to pay?

They caught the train to the riches/high house values, they were lucky, while the rest were left out, now is time to pay the bill.

I really do not understand what is the problem for a person living in $ 3 million house to pay extra 10 k a year.

It is just 0.3 % of the value of the house that goes up in the meantime. No?

#56 For those about to flop... on 05.27.18 at 5:49 pm

#25 Niagara Region on 05.27.18 at 3:56 pm
If people want the names of some of the top 10-percent in the U.S., here is a fascinating 1-hour documentary by one of the Johnson & Johnson heirs, Born Rich: Children of the Insanely Wealthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km_JmxnzTvc
//////////////////////////

Hey NR ,sounds like you might get some joy from these two howmuch articles I ran recently.

Click on the links for the full visualization…

M43BC

“Mapping the Richest People of All Time from Every State

The U.S. is home to more billionaires than any other country in the world, but you might be surprised to learn that there are 7 states that haven’t produced a single billionaire. In fact, ranking the richest people of all time from every state reveals extremely wide differences in wealth.

How do you figure out the net worth of the richest individual of all time? We found our data thanks to Forbes, which did much of the number crunching for us. A lot of the richest people ever have long since died, meaning we had to adjust numbers for inflation to fairly compare it to today. We then color-coded each state to represent the range of its most successful citizen, and we added a picture of the millionaire or billionaire in question.

Top 10 States with the Wealthiest People of all Time

1. New York: John D. Rockefeller, $257.25B

2. Oklahoma: Sam Walton, $171.55B

3. New Mexico: Jeff Bezos, $116.57B

4. Pennsylvania: Richard Mellon Scaife, $104.73B

5. Washington: Bill Gates, $90.54B

6. Nebraska: Warren Buffett, $90.44B

7. Massachusetts: Marshall Field, $76.26B

8. Michigan: Henry Ford, $68.33B

9. Illinois: Larry Ellison, $56.76B

10. Maryland: Sergey Brin, $53.32B

Our map reveals several interesting trends about the richest person from every state. First off, almost every person on the map is a man, although there are a few exceptions. Anita Zucker is the wealthiest of the 3 women with a personal fortune of $3.83B. At the very upper end of the spectrum, only four people cross the $100B mark, with nobody coming anywhere close to John D. Rockefeller at the very top ($257.25B). That’s the kind of money that lets you establish permanent multi-generational foundations long into the future.

Another interesting fact about our map is the relationship between where someone was born and where they made their money. In other words, clearly sometimes people have to move to make a fortune. Jeff Bezos is originally from New Mexico, but Amazon is headquartered is in Seattle, Washington. Sam Walton may have been born in Oklahoma, but his company (Walmart) is headquartered in Arkansas. Other names are synonymous with their birth states. Bill Gates founded Microsoft in Washington, and John Menard Jr created the eponymous hardware store in Wisconsin. Henry Ford came from Michigan, the same state he built the famous car company. Warren Buffett is the Oracle of Omaha, and guess what? He still lives in Nebraska.

It is hard to grasp just how enormous these personal fortunes really are. As a whole, the group averages about $30B in net worth. If you combine all their fortunes together, you would have more than $1.5 trillion. That’s about the same size as Canada’s entire economy. So where are the best odds of making this list? You might be in luck if you come from New Hampshire. Brooke Astor only made $150 million. ”

https://howmuch.net/articles/richest-person-in-every-state-2017

https://howmuch.net/articles/richest-person-of-all-time

#57 The real Kip on 05.27.18 at 5:58 pm

“Be careful what you wish for, kids”

I’ll give you something to wish for and that’s an NDP/Lib minority government, in which case, none of the synopsis of tonight’s blog will happen in Ontario and we will do it again in two years.

#58 Andre on 05.27.18 at 6:11 pm

All the push for the additional taxes are based on the perception that foreigner income/investors are the ones pushing prices higher. Several news pieces have portrayed them as people not paying their share of income taxes (students, housewife’s multi million $ homeowners that do not pay any income tax).

I think a more effective way to address this would be to move to a global income taxation (like the USA).

#59 Harrison Bergeron on 05.27.18 at 6:22 pm

DELETED

#60 Herb on 05.27.18 at 6:27 pm

The top 1% of society have just 10% of their net worth in property. The bottom 90%, in contrast, are obsessed with houses – with almost 60% of wealth tied up there.

Proving what, Garth, that the top 1% are rich because they have only 10% of their wealth in property, while the bottom 90% are at that bottom because they have 59% of their wealth in principal residences? Do you know what a non sequitur is?

Perhaps the top 1% have so little wealth invested in property because they would have to buy swaths of real estate to park 59% of their wealth in property. Perhaps the bottom 90% have so much money in principal residences because the home they live in is the only investment they can afford. And it is an investment courtesy of the finance and real estate industries prevailing on the Government of Canada to open the easy-money spigots in 2009 and keep them running.

But your ideological logic is impeccable, as always.

#61 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.27.18 at 6:30 pm

@#26 Nigerian Reject
“Regarding Britain, for the royal wedding last week, the royal family paid 2 million pounds, while the British taxpayers paid 30 million pounds. This wanton waste of taxpayer money…….
+++++

Not that I watched the Royal Nuptuals but apparently over 1 -2 BILLION people did…… 3o million pounds is a steal for publicity like that.

https://www.google.ca/url?url=https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/962610/Royal-Wedding-viewing-figures-Meghan-Markle-Prince-Harry-kiss-David-Beckham&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjU8fOg-KbbAhXZCTQIHTmJAl4QFgggMAM&usg=AOvVaw2oIvoYleblwNFNa1rgV_Nb

And most of that money was probably spent on security to keep every lone wolf or ISIS nutbar away from jolly old blighty.

The Royal Family is the largest tourist draw in England by far.
Not my cup of tea but apparently lotsa people love the parades

#62 For those about to flop... on 05.27.18 at 6:33 pm

Pink Pollen falling in Surrey.

This house in Surrey was only in my Possible Pinkies folder, but they just whacked the price down with a fly swatter by 290k.

Zolo is playing games by no longer recording price reductions, but I’m a big enough imbecile to think I can try and keep up.

I placed it in the folder a while back when I noticed the gaping hole between the buy price and the assessment.

They paid 1.42 in August 2016 and the most recent assessment comes in at only 1.11 and they are now asking 25% less than originally,which must be a pest.

Looks like they fell into the Venus Flytrap…

M43BC

Asking price history.
2017-06-27 : $1,700,000
2018-03-02 : $1,625,000
2018-03-23 : $1,578,000
2018-05-25 : $1,288,000

Now asking 1.28

9619 162A ST SURREY paid 1.42 August 2016 were asking 1.57 ass 1.11

https://www.zolo.ca/surrey-real-estate/9619-162a-street

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/RDAwMDA0UE5LMA==

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a donation.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#63 Linda on 05.27.18 at 6:42 pm

‘Be careful what you wish for; you just might get it’. I find it sad that the disenfranchised are set on punishing those who have succeeded. The ugly face of envy. So much for the 10th commandment!

I find it interesting that the wealth tax being imposed in BC is going into general revenues. So all those seething, envious folks are not likely to profit in any way from the new tax – no rent controlled, low income housing to be had.

#64 Keith on 05.27.18 at 6:43 pm

Great headline:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/08/realtors-warn-toronto-housing-market-continues-collapse-everyone-one-day-afford-house/

#65 Samuel on 05.27.18 at 6:55 pm

“The top 1% of society have just 10% of their net worth in property.” If I understand the graph correctly it doesnt show that 10% of their net worth is in property (principle residence) but rather 10% of the value of principle residences are held by the top 1%.

#66 Juve101 on 05.27.18 at 7:07 pm

Edward Wolff’s diagram was a real eye opener to me. But Garth surely T2’s bean counters are fully aware of this, why wouldn’t they go after the cap gains inclusion rate if the goal is to fill the coffers?

#67 Please help a newbie on 05.27.18 at 7:08 pm

I am looking to buy a house in GTA, How should I select my buying agent? should I get an agent without signing a contract or should I only hire a good RE lawyer and inspection service. IF I dont get an agent should I ask seller to reduce the price equal to buyers agent commision?
I am fine with finding my own house online and reaching out to seller / agent. i see tons of good deals on comfree.
Appreciate your advice.

Thanks
joe

#68 Lee on 05.27.18 at 7:08 pm

The more I read that graph the more it is incomprehensible.

#69 prairie person on 05.27.18 at 7:13 pm

I haven’t been paying attention to the market. I’m not buying or selling at the moment but when I drove across town to Home Deport in Victoria, I was shocked by the lack of for sale signs. I might have missed some but all I noticed was a sign on one side street. At this time of year there should be forest of for sale signs. It may be that people are in shock, paralyzed by the bill they got from the municipality. I live in a modest bungalow in a nice but not fashionable part of town and my taxes jumped. Not sure why. No extra services. I don’t believe the assessment price is in any way related to possible sale price. Over the past two years, two houses in our area went up for sale. One had one bid and sold to that bidder. The other house never got a bid that was anywhere close to ask. Never sold.There are some nice houses in the area, tucked away here and there on big pieces of property and it is the property that is valuable, not the bldgs so perhaps some of those sold.That would skew assessments.

#70 Dongareff on 05.27.18 at 7:14 pm

“The top 1% of society have just 10% of their net worth in property.”. By this logic, top 1% spend only 0.001% on food while bottom 1% spends 100% on food. Eat less to be rich.

#71 Tal Muddy Waters on 05.27.18 at 7:19 pm

I thought there was no fluoride in BC water.
Anyway, no one said boo when market value assessment was ‘implemented’, apparently the host may be waking up.

#72 Keith on 05.27.18 at 7:22 pm

#63 Linda There is a plan for 114,000 new housing units in the next ten years.

https://biv.com/article/2017/04/housing-top-priority-ndp-green-platforms

#73 Reynolds531 on 05.27.18 at 7:24 pm

Maybe the Jack Reacher lifestyle IS the way to go. Minus the gunfire.

#74 Harrison Bergeron on 05.27.18 at 7:24 pm

Met your match now. Seeing you rewrote your reply is very telling. Speaking of very telling is you advocating purchasing real estate knowing full well the implications of Fukushima. Delete that!

#75 For those about to flop... on 05.27.18 at 7:24 pm

Pink Pollen falling in Surrey.

Here’s another crew in Surrey struggling to exit the market and keep afloat.

They paid 1.63 in February 2016, which was o.k compared to the assessment ,but they were just forced to forget about making a profit and now it is all about a recovery mission before taking on too much water.

Probably doesn’t matter how fast they row.

Lots of people in the same boat..

M43BC

Asking price history.

2017-05-02 : $1,868,000
2017-06-29 : $1,799,000
2018-02-20 : $1,749,800
2018-05-22 : $1,699,000

3091 162st. Surrey. Paid 1.6 ass1.73 asking 1.69

https://www.zolo.ca/surrey-real-estate/3091-162-street

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/RDAwMDAyV1A2Qg==

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a donation.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#76 Shawn Allen on 05.27.18 at 7:28 pm

Where’s The Money Come From?

#38 Blacksheep on 05.27.18 at 4:34 pm said:

“I claimed the operational costs of running, all levels of government are largely subsidised by the private sector.

Lets cut this to the core.

Where do actual monies, come from to start with?

96% of $’s in our modern societies circulation, comes from ‘money creation’ via the chartered banks capability along private citizens, to create new deposits.

************************************
Well money is not a real thing. It’s intangible. It’s just a score keeping mechanism to show who has a claim check on the real goods and services. This is especially true of fiat money, which works wonderfully bit is clearly intangible.

It’s a medium of exchange. (You can exchange real goods and services for an intangible dollar that is a claim check on all goods and services in the amount of a dollar).

It’s a unit of account. We tote up wealth and the value of all financial assets in dollars.

It’s a store of value in that you don’t have to spend your claim checks or earnings today but rather can store what you have earned as money (claim checks).

Government workers contribute to the creation of valuable services and receive claim checks (money) good for all other goods and services. The created services have value no matter what currency is used.

Similarly the private sector workers receive claim checks.

Both groups must give back some of their intangible claim checks as taxes.

Also, government services are components of GDP along with the various private sector goods and services categories.

All components of the economy work together in an interactive way to create everything.

Ponder: Can you imagine a country where everyone worked for the government and private business was not allowed? (Cuba may have been a case until recently). In such a case could government provide all goods and services with no private sector to possibly subsidize it? I believe that as in Cuba the per capita amount of goods and services would be lower, but it would not be zero.

At the end of the day, if government workers earn their money by producing valuable goods and services without which the private sector could not function and if private sector workers must pay their deemed fair share of that then there is no problem is there?

#77 Timmy on 05.27.18 at 7:28 pm

No one feels sorry for the people who made fortunes in Vancouver real estate. NO investment savvy or hard work, mostly dumb luck, due to international money laundering and a corrupt Liberal government that allowed it to happen. Tax these people.

#78 hehe on 05.27.18 at 7:29 pm

they r going after the top 1% Garth. We will be Scandanavian

is Ford the best ya got? LOL

#79 Cow Man on 05.27.18 at 7:31 pm

“Be careful What You Wish For Kids”:

In retirement I am a school bus driver. Due to the significant shortage of those willing to take the abuse of being a school bus driver our division just received a 26% gross pay raise. Interestingly enough the job is now subject to Federal Income tax. With the CPP deduction increase, and EI deductions increases along with the Union Dues increase and the income tax deductions on the 26% raise are a total 279% increase over the deductions before the pay raise.

All of these “increases” low income earners are receiving are just a tax grab. Zero sum gain. Most school bus drivers never will accumulate enough CPP contributions to receive CPP. Most school bus drivers do not put in enough hours to collect EI if unemployed.

Surcharges on high priced homes will not make affordable housing more readily available just reduce the price of those houses not attainable to the middle class workers anyway.

#80 SoggyShorts on 05.27.18 at 7:32 pm

#55 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 5:49 pm
#47 SoggyShorts on 05.27.18 at 5:04 pm
#23 Stan Brooks on 05.27.18 at 3:25 pm

I really do not understand what is the problem for a person living in $ 3 million house to pay extra 10 k a year.

It is just 0.3 % of the value of the house that goes up in the meantime. No?

***************************
Please explain how they are going to sell 0.3% of that house to pay the extra bill each year?

Expand your thoughts on this just a little. There are people who bought the house they could afford 15 years ago, and are halfway through a mortgage. That the house is worth more on paper now means nothing to them other than higher taxes.

#81 Screwed Canadian Gen Xer. on 05.27.18 at 7:39 pm

Those in expensive houses are not asking for ‘sympathy’, but asking not to be arbitrarily taxed because of a market they did not control. Seems reasonable. If they cannot pay the surtax, why should they be forced to sell? It doesn’t make housing more affordable for anyone. – Garth

Hey Garth, whatever happened to you assertion that nobody has the right to be able to own real estate? If somebody can’t afford to pay the surtax, they obviously are too house poor to be able to afford the house. Just like if they’re too poor to be able to afford the insurance or maintenance costs

That made zero sense. – Garth

#82 Cristian on 05.27.18 at 7:41 pm

“Real estate ownership is a middle-class obsession.”

Couldn’t agree more. I am a 1%er and I rent (happily, if I may say so)

#83 Gyga on 05.27.18 at 7:54 pm

I think it’s a good idea.
Whoever can’t pay should sell and move to California or Florida)))

#84 Damifino on 05.27.18 at 8:07 pm

#34 Stan Brooks

ungentlemanly? This is Canada man.
——————————-

That’s what scares me.

#85 Nonplused on 05.27.18 at 8:18 pm

Turns out now we have yet another reason to keep a “bug out bag” stocked and ready to go: To flee crazed NDP governments!

So the thing is that property tax is already “progressive”, in that a person with a 3 million dollar house already pays 3 times as much income tax as a person with a 1 million dollar house in most jurisdictions. This is because most “fair share” property tax systems are calculated based on appraised value times a universal mill rate.

In places like Vancouver where practically all houses are already over a million, adding surtax to houses worth over a million is most like going to raise the bulk of the revenue from people who don’t actually have any money, they just have a house. There will be a lot more people paying the surtax on 1.5 mil homes than on 3-5 mil homes, because there are simply a lot more of them. So this tax grab will disproportionately target the middle class (yet again).

Since the rich, even the ones who own $5 mil homes don’t have any money (they have assets), they are hard to tax. Sure, it may look like they’re sticking it to the man by making him pay $40,000 a year more tax on his mansion, but the side effect is the middle class all gets stuck with a $5,000 extra bill too. And nobody has the money to pay any of it. But I am sure it will go through anyway.

Income taxes are already a plenty effective and insidious way to discourage economic activity and reduce everyone’s lifestyle, but I suppose taxes have to be leveled at some point. Wealth taxes on the other hand are pure evil, because they make saving and investing impossible. And if they are going to target people’s housing wealth, how long will it be before they go after your bank account? Why not put a 1% tax on that? (Don’t worry it’s been talked about in Europe already.) And then why stop at bank accounts? Why not stocks and bonds too? I think it’s coming if we don’t stop voting NDP.

Because leftist generally don’t have any idea of how economies function, they tend to believe that there is an infinite amount of money out there just waiting for them to hover up, and that it won’t have any repercussions. They just have to figure out how to pry it from the greedy rich people’s hands. But it doesn’t work that way. Money isn’t real, hand most people, even the rich, don’t have any. They have assets (even if it’s at only one address). So the problem is when the government tries to convert assets into tax revenue, most people have to liquidate the asset at least over time. But who do they sell to? The government? What’s the government going to do with all that real estate?

But anyway it is almost always the case that the last stage of a collapsing government involves asset confiscation, so it’s coming sooner or later.

#86 Soy Boy on 05.27.18 at 8:23 pm

Meh, 55% marginal rate isn’t scary at all. The US used to have 90% in the post-ww2 period and they did great. I think that’s where we need to be, so every step on that direction helps.

As far as a wealth tax I agree government should be aware that houses are only the beginning. Tax everything to prevent excessive accumulation. Large inter generational wealth is toxic to a society and its social fabric. It’s even toxic to a workable economic model, other than slavery of course. One needs to look no further than what the Irving’s have done to their home province, or what The Rogers have done to cell phone costs in Canada, or what the Weston’s have done to grocery store prices and retail employment.

Perhaps one day, maybe next election, Justin will be forced to react and deal with these problems, when he has viable progressive opposition. In the meantime the mild mannered orange wave is arriving in Ontario, and it’s about time.

Btw the NDP are ever so slightly left of centre capitalists from 50 years ago, they only seem left because the centre moved so much. If they don’t succeed you don’t even want to imagine how “left” their replacement will be. The millennial vote is starting to count, and the wave is far from having created. Wait till all millennials are middle aged, all eligible to vote, and nearly all being denied the chance to meaningfully participate in the economy. It’s a bigger wave than the boomers ever were.

#87 Stone on 05.27.18 at 8:38 pm

#81 Screwed Canadian Gen Xer. on 05.27.18 at 7:39 pm
Those in expensive houses are not asking for ‘sympathy’, but asking not to be arbitrarily taxed because of a market they did not control. Seems reasonable. If they cannot pay the surtax, why should they be forced to sell? It doesn’t make housing more affordable for anyone. – Garth

Hey Garth, whatever happened to you assertion that nobody has the right to be able to own real estate? If somebody can’t afford to pay the surtax, they obviously are too house poor to be able to afford the house. Just like if they’re too poor to be able to afford the insurance or maintenance costs

That made zero sense. – Garth

———-

Actually, in this instance, it does. Sometimes, the world changes. We either adapt or we don’t. It’s a simple choice however more often than not, people are not prepared to make a choice and think that by ignoring the issue, it will go away on its own. That is what is happening regarding the housing surtax.

Sometimes, the better choice is to sell the house and either buy elsewhere or rent. Others put their head in the sand and are upset when the surtax bill arrives. When things are outside your control, you can choose to adapt to the situation. If you don’t, sucks to be you but the surtax bill, ye shall pay.

I choose to adapt even if sometimes I find it painful. That’s how life works. For the rest, whining about something that doesn’t go your way accomplishes nothing. Thinking you were ever in control is an illusion or a delusion. Sounds like entitlement to the status quo. The sheeple constantly believe existance is static – such a lie.

PS: My rent is dropping 2.38% next month and onward. Quelle horreur! ;-)

#88 What can I say about that? on 05.27.18 at 8:39 pm

Fairness is in the eye of the beholder. Usually, their viewpoint depends on how they personally are affected.

#89 Smoking Man on 05.27.18 at 8:39 pm

Suede on 05.27.18 at 5:26 pm
Who is John Galt?

If you don’t know. Look it up quick.

Coming to a province near you.
……..

I found Atlas Shrugged. Back for a wee visit. Went to Clinton street for my fav stake on a bun and a ponzee.

The young men downtown look and act like weirdos. What the hell did those teachers do to them. After bay street dogapoluza, my nephews wedding. I’m out of here for good.

Last chance for a selfie with the great Smoking Man.

#90 Socialist Hoardes on 05.27.18 at 8:44 pm

#86 Soy Boy on 05.27.18 at 8:23 pm

Meh, 55% marginal rate isn’t scary at all. The US used to have 90% in the post-ww2 period and they did great. I think that’s where we need to be, so every step on that direction helps.

As far as a wealth tax I agree government should be aware that houses are only the beginning. Tax everything to prevent excessive accumulation. Large inter generational wealth is toxic to a society and its social fabric. It’s even toxic to a workable economic model, other than slavery of course. One needs to look no further than what the Irving’s have done to their home province, or what The Rogers have done to cell phone costs in Canada, or what the Weston’s have done to grocery store prices and retail employment.

Perhaps one day, maybe next election, Justin will be forced to react and deal with these problems, when he has viable progressive opposition. In the meantime the mild mannered orange wave is arriving in Ontario, and it’s about time.

Btw the NDP are ever so slightly left of centre capitalists from 50 years ago, they only seem left because the centre moved so much. If they don’t succeed you don’t even want to imagine how “left” their replacement will be. The millennial vote is starting to count, and the wave is far from having created. Wait till all millennials are middle aged, all eligible to vote, and nearly all being denied the chance to meaningfully participate in the economy. It’s a bigger wave than the boomers ever were.
..
More commie millennial drivel.. tax.. tax… tax.. money’s got wings dudette. bye bye

#91 For those about to flop... on 05.27.18 at 8:44 pm

Pink Pollen falling in Surrey.

To complete the Surrey trilogy tonight ,here’s another one that I hadn’t checked in on in a while and they are still struggling.

Paid 1.78 in June 2016 ,with their latest reduction they are down to 1.84

Despite the assessment coming up last year ,it still lags at 1.64

If Zolo wants to play silly buggers,that just means they are speaking my language…

M43BC

2017-03-13 : $2,188,000
2017-05-17 : $2,148,000

Now asking 1.84

3233 144 Street ,Surrey paid 1.78 June 2016 were asking 2.14 ass 1.64

https://www.zolo.ca/surrey-real-estate/3233-144-street

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDA3NzI4VA==

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a donation.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#92 Karma on 05.27.18 at 8:48 pm

“Those in expensive houses are not asking for ‘sympathy’, but asking not to be arbitrarily taxed because of a market they did not control. Seems reasonable. If they cannot pay the surtax, why should they be forced to sell? It doesn’t make housing more affordable for anyone. – Garth”

Yes, they should sell because they cannot afford to keep up with the basic upkeep of ownership. The surtax as is may be punitive at 0.2% for above $3m and 0.4% above $4m, but the concept of progressive property tax is sound.

It would be better if we could raise property taxes but make them tax deductible on Provincial income tax, like in the US. Although, Trump just lowered the max deductibility to $10,000, which is still great relative to our current system.

#93 ImGonnaBeSick on 05.27.18 at 8:54 pm

Garth, we appreciate your patience trying to teach these kids, but they are the thickest bunch of knuckleheads I’ve ever seen. They’ve been brought up to learn that whining gets what they want. Always! They are weak little idiots that know the rules will be bent in their favour as long as they throw temper tantrums. They long for the nanny state because they were breast fed until they were in their teens. They love to pretend that they’re offended by everything because then they get to be special for a minute. This is the generation that grew up with trophies for just showing up, video games with endless chances, teachers unable to fail them, coaches unable to cut them. I come from a great family, but guess what? I couldn’t wait to leave and go on my own. My uncle had the greatest saying, “if you raise your kids right, they’ll want to leave home at 16.”

We were all poor in our twenties. We all had school debt. Guess what we did? We worked our butts off to get out of that debt and build families and eventually buy houses. We never asked for handouts and would be offended if offered one. They believe the game can be rigged without it affecting them, and I can’t wait to see it blow up in their faces.

#94 domain on 05.27.18 at 8:58 pm

Wealth taxes. Or as some like to call it, “Capital Destruction”.

The process of capital destruction via confiscation of wealth ends in the impoverishment of everyone, as the wealth in the economy is consumed instead of being invested.

You take my capital (deferred consumption in my case) and give it to some mouth-breather who will use it to buy an iPhone; you have destroyed the possibilities for that capital (investment in businesses, new technology or new products, etc).

Socialists never learn. They just come up with different excuses why socialism has failed in the past. It is a political ideology for losers.

#95 theoryAndPractice on 05.27.18 at 9:05 pm

#67 Please help a newbie on 05.27.18 at 7:08 pm

Google “BRA’s” you ll see Garth’s posting from past. That will answer most of your questions regarding to getting into a ‘representation contract’.

There is a website you can get some help based on fixed-fee. Google ‘wealthy home owner’. I come across while watching some of Ross Kay’s web cast on youtbe.

You will probably need a professional advice case by case basis. So it may be a good idea to have a real estate lawyer handy that oversees and checks documents communicated/prepared before you act on them.

#96 eightlock90 on 05.27.18 at 9:08 pm

Don’t bother trying to reason with rich boomers. Any public policy that threatens their fantasy of living in a compound surrounded by razor wire and having an armed escort accompany them whenever they enter the wasteland society they created, will be countered with , “you whiny self entitled millennials!!” while they fill their adult diapers and listen to their phonographs.

Surely you can make a cogent argument without childlike insults. – Garth

#97 will on 05.27.18 at 9:14 pm

Excellent graphchart.

#98 Han Solo on 05.27.18 at 9:17 pm

Here in BC I am guessing everyone owns a house but that is it. Went to the new Solo movie and about one person had popcorn, but no one else – I’d guess because they’re broke because it was the same at the new Avengers movie recently. If Garth is right housing taxes will have an impact.

PS Ron Howard pulled it off – finally a great Star Wars movie compared to the Last Jedi crap.

#FreeTommyRobinson

#99 Smoking Man on 05.27.18 at 9:20 pm

This makes a good case for every abled body business person for leaving Ontario if the dippers win…not likely. But who knows how retarded the millennials really are.

Let them feast on there own vomit..

https://youtu.be/KR3MgIPxb38

#100 Victor V on 05.27.18 at 9:21 pm

BREAKING: NDP leader a fan of chichi shops

http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-ndp-leader-a-fan-of-chichi-shops

Andrea Horwath may have lunch bucket roots but the NDP leader’s tastes appear to run more on the champagne socialist side of things.

A review of NDP expenses filed with Elections Ontario shows Horwath has a taste for custom clothes and shops extensively at the luxury retailer Holt Renfrew.

In fact, between 2011 and 2014, the Ontario NDP paid $43,585.98 in clothing expenses for Horwath but filed them under travel, office supplies and advertising expenses.

The party went so far as to list a charge of $12,055.14 to W10 Colours as a “fundraising” expense. W10 Colours is a boutique store in Toronto’s chichi Yorkville neighbourhood. They describe themselves as, “a unique and customer oriented service that creates custom-tailored wardrobes for women.”

Custom clothes range from a jacket-skirt combo for $799 to an executive package of clothing for $5,000.

#101 Overheardyou on 05.27.18 at 9:29 pm

Isn’t income tax derived from the idea of taxing wealthy people from a couple centuries ago?

#102 iogitra on 05.27.18 at 9:30 pm

#19 Real Estate on 05.27.18 at 2:42 pm
——
Can you provide some extra info on this. My curiosity was peaked. Is this in Ontario or rather further east (QC, NB)?
Thanks.

#103 ANON on 05.27.18 at 9:34 pm

Interesting chart.
So the blue stuff in the chart is the rabble making promises of more at the Temples of Promises, while the green stuff is the best and brightest, and their promises come directly from the Gods with a glass of Ambrosia on the side, and no connection to the rabble’s promises?

#104 Al on 05.27.18 at 9:39 pm

How many of the lower 90% would own 3mil homes?

Odd article, the ending appears to imply the lower 90% are taxing themselves, yet the post starts off admonishing the tax as “class warfare”.

Nice chart, don’t give them any ideas , they’ll start coming after the business equity in earnest soon..

#105 Solo Movie on 05.27.18 at 9:41 pm

This new Solo movie has turned into a financial disaster based on the ticket sales throughout North America. Might do better once it hits the Asian market.

#106 n1tro on 05.27.18 at 9:55 pm

Are we all still voting NDP to complete the destruction of Ontario for a reset in 4 yrs or is Doug Ford our lord and saviour? Talk about shit choices.

#107 TurnerNation on 05.27.18 at 10:11 pm

Inflation is the real taxation loved by the elites. It’s legally almost unlimited. A Silent Weapon if you will (google that term)

Boomers hoping to get into a long term or nursing home in 20-40 years time, with the $15 minimum wage to be indexed against an “inflation number”…the starting salary one day could be $30-4 hr. for workers at those places.
Making personal care (more) unaffordable to more people.
Again false rationing of a resource.

#108 Lead Paint on 05.27.18 at 10:30 pm

#7 For those about to flop… on 05.27.18 at 2:07 pm
See Lead Paint….just another Tasmanian getting ready to do his Speedometer check…

…………..

Well Floppy you must have some serious pull with Mr. Turner to have him post such a perfect and timely illustration of a Tasmanian going about his business. It’s nice to know I don’t need to worry about losing weight or getting a wax before my next visit.

And for those of you confused by the chart – what is there to be confused by? It shows rich people, who have the option to own any asset class as an investment, choose owning businesses in one form or another over real estate, particularly residential real estate. If they thought residential real estate was a wonderful investment, they would own a larger proportion of it, as they have flexibility in that regard.

By extension, taxing real estate will not impact them (the 1%) as much as you may think or hope. That’s why politicians go after real estate and small businesses, not trusts, where T2 has all his gifted money. T2 has you fooled that he’s on your side, but he and his trust fund friends are safe, secure and untouchable.

Lastly, for those of you with reading comprehension issues, cheering on additional taxes on someone slightly better off than you will likely burn you in the end, as you will likely be next up on the list as you are surely better off than someone else who is envious of you.

#109 Smartalox on 05.27.18 at 10:34 pm

He’s how the BC Bolshevik ‘wealth tax’ is going to play out:

First, the brewing RE storm in BC will decimate home values, and make the tax effectively worthless. The NDP will calculate that falling home prices mean fewer homes qualify, so the threshold for the surtax will be lowered to $1M to make up lost revenue.

The motion will be debated in the Legislature, and will form the basis of a confidence vote. The legislature will be ‘whipped’ into a frenzy along political lines, while the politicians make solemn pledges on TV pledge to ‘honour their constituents’ wishes, while in the end, they’ll vote in their own best interests.

What? You thought the NDP politicians you elected shared your socio-economic Strata? They all own detached, some own multiple (though not in areas where it triggers a speculation tax). Even if they tell you that ‘everyone should be equal, you’re still a plebe to them, and don’t you forget it.

Of course, Andrew Weaver, the Green party blowhard from the district of Oak Bay, (which if you’ve never visited, has ocean-front estates where deer literally run free on the lawns – like at the Queen’s estate at Sandringham, and that put point Grey to shame), will take his MPs and vote against the proposal, knocking the Dippers off the table like so many snooker balls, and triggering an election in the process.

The NDP will be crushed, return to their previous status of being unelectable for a generation, and the rest of the country will take note.

Here’s the thing that the peasants don’t get: it’s not just the bricks and mortar that have appreciated, it’s the art on the walls of these homes, the holdings in the portfolios and yes, in the private corporations. The wealthy have the money to pay brighter minds than the government’s, to pay as little tax as legally possible. It’s one of their pastimes, like the way little people get so wrapped up in professional sports.

Your team may win, your team may lose, but you’ll NEVER be able to play their game.

#110 Bobs ur uncle on 05.27.18 at 10:35 pm

#54 Joe Schmoe on 05.27.18 at 5:48 pm
So let me guess what your grand solutions would be:

climate change? Cut taxes
wealth disparity? Cut taxes
people dying from tobacco? Cut taxes
alcohol a social issue? Cut taxes
rampant increase in drug related deaths? criminalize/jail users and then cut taxes

Things always get better if you just cut taxes.

That about right?

#111 Ex-Cowtown on 05.27.18 at 10:38 pm

Hey Garth, whatever happened to you assertion that nobody has the right to be able to own real estate? If somebody can’t afford to pay the surtax, they obviously are too house poor to be able to afford the house. Just like if they’re too poor to be able to afford the insurance or maintenance costs

That made zero sense. – Garth

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Au contraire, GT. It makes perfect sense in BC. Anyone who has (or appears to have) more than you is a rich thief and needs to pay up.

When we moved to BC from Calgary a decade ago one of my Cowtown friends asked me what it was like living in BC. I told him “In Calgary to fit in you have to pretend to have money. In BC you have to pretend to be broke”

More true today than a decade ago.

Who is John Galt?

#112 Frank on 05.27.18 at 10:40 pm

Inequality is at 100 year worst but here’s Garth complaining about how hard the rich have it. Lol.

You don’t have to be a nutty Marxist to see that there’s a correlation between equality, quality of life and taxation. It’s almost laughable how the Trump supporters worship the 50’s era of a strong middle class while failing to recognize the 90% highest income tax rates. Where do they think all those public works projects came from?

The new BC levy is an asset tax.

Would you rather an income tax? When playing Robin Hood it’s better to tax wealth than working.

Tax the wealth? Be careful what you wish for, kids.

I thought your breed died with Reagan.

#113 For those about to flop... on 05.27.18 at 10:46 pm

#108 Lead Paint on 05.27.18 at 10:30 pm
#7 For those about to flop… on 05.27.18 at 2:07 pm
See Lead Paint….just another Tasmanian getting ready to do his Speedometer check…

…………..

Well Floppy you must have some serious pull with Mr. Turner to have him post such a perfect and timely illustration of a Tasmanian going about his business. It’s nice to know I don’t need to worry about losing weight or getting a wax before my next visit.

////////////////

Actually Leady ,since you were so kind to reach out to me yesterday ,I submitted that photo this morning as part of my daily submissions to reward you and a brief period of time later it was up on the blog.

I guess the boss of the blog decided to play up to the crowd or just thought it was funny like I did,so up she went.

The rest is history…

M43BC

#114 meslippery on 05.27.18 at 10:49 pm

I think we use to just raise the tax on the middle class a bit at the time when needed to cover costs.
But the rich long ago did away with the middle class.

#8 Keith gets it.

#115 Lobster Man on 05.27.18 at 10:57 pm

This is an article about wealth tax in France; and yes, they end up taxing the “rich” and cripple the poor:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11187602/The-wealth-tax-a-tax-on-the-rich-that-cripples-the-poor.html

#116 Trojan House on 05.27.18 at 11:01 pm

#8 Keith on 05.27.18 at 2:08 pm

Are you not reading what Garth is writing??? He is saying that house prices have shot up through no fault of the owner and while, the house may be now worth $3 million, the owner may not be “wealthy.” It could be someone living on old age or a middle income couple, etc.

Take your blinders off.

#117 Lee on 05.27.18 at 11:05 pm

# 106

What you don’t understand is that many, many Ontarians want the system to collapse.

#118 Trojan House on 05.27.18 at 11:09 pm

#49 Dan on 05.27.18 at 5:15 pm

Garth, it doesn’t matter how much you explain it – you can’t fix stupid like Dan.

I can’t read anymore comments…

#119 YVR - 60% crash! on 05.27.18 at 11:41 pm

“Canadian political landscape leans left” Because the general public are pissed.

#120 jane24 on 05.27.18 at 11:46 pm

Garth this is democracy. This is what the voters want. They may be wrong and/or stupid but it doesn’t matter, these ways and means are what the majority want so it must be. Will the boomers and our values ever be a majority again, maybe not as long as the mills make it to the ballot box. We should count ourselves lucky that our govt rules worked for us long enough to make our personal retirement pots. It is up to the next generation of voters to decide how to build their own pots or not.

#121 Long-Time Lurker on 05.27.18 at 11:55 pm

#67 Please help a newbie on 05.27.18 at 7:08 pm
I am looking to buy a house in GTA, How should I select my buying agent? should I get an agent without signing a contract or should I only hire a good RE lawyer and inspection service.

IF I dont get an agent should I ask seller to reduce the price equal to buyers agent commision?
I am fine with finding my own house online and reaching out to seller / agent. i see tons of good deals on comfree. Appreciate your advice.

Thanks
joe

>Find this post by Garth:

The last post
April 5th, 2018 — Book Updates — E-mail this blog post to a friend

So, the advice remains. If you want, crave and can swing a house without gutting your finances, try it. Offer what you can afford to people increasingly anxious about selling. Here’s a strategy:

Get an agent to front you, but don’t sign a BRA. I’ve explained why many times.

Suggest a reasonable price you think is fair and affordable. If it’s a ridiculous low-ball offer the buyer may ignore you or sign it back for full price. In both cases, you’ve created animosity which won’t help going forward.

Include lots of conditions, even if you don’t need them. Financing, Home inspection. Water and septic (in the country). You can always strike them to assist in getting a better price as the negotiation goes forward.

Don’t make the irrevocable too short. People under pressure don’t cooperate.

Never offer after one showing. Go two or three times. Build the drama. You can afford to do this in a market with little buyer competition.

Big deposits always help get lower prices.

Don’t be too hasty with the sign-back. Wait until the end of the allowed period to respond. The seller will worry that you’re going to walk, and be grateful (and more pliable).

If the negotiations fall through, give it up. Take a few days or weeks off, then go in again. You may be surprised at the result.

#122 Yorkville Renter on 05.28.18 at 12:00 am

I’d refuse to pay the extra tax.. the gov’t is taxing an estimate… you earn nothing until you sell, so I can’t be taxed on a gain that has not yet materialized.

Tax should be based on what you paid + gov’t declared annual increases

#123 Canada=Poor cousin of U.S on 05.28.18 at 12:02 am

Taxes. This is Canada. What else you expect?

#124 Doug t on 05.28.18 at 12:03 am

#96 – LOL too true – nailed it

RATM

#125 gryng87 on 05.28.18 at 12:06 am

Garth

No more geriatric “budgie smuggler” pics pls. That is way TMI!

#126 Dolce Vita on 05.28.18 at 12:06 am

Ah, quit whining.

Just take out a HELOC to pay for it all like any good self-respecting Canadian has done.

#127 Stan Brooks on 05.28.18 at 12:09 am


#80 SoggyShorts on 05.27.18 at 7:32 pm

***************************
Please explain how they are going to sell 0.3% of that house to pay the extra bill each year?

Expand your thoughts on this just a little. There are people who bought the house they could afford 15 years ago, and are halfway through a mortgage. That the house is worth more on paper now means nothing to them other than higher taxes.

============================

If they hurry up they can sell the house and downsize (so get money to pay up for several years the tax on the new, smaller house). Then repeat.
Will loose 150 k -200 k each time, but hey, living in the best place on earth has its costs.

Or reverse mortgage. Pass nothing to the kids.

Of course I am being sarcastic here.

Who asked the doctors and small business owners whether they can pay higher taxes or when stealing their pensions?

It seems every ‘privilege’ in this place has its price.
I heard even the MAFIA takes care of the people they ‘protect’. Evidently not the case here.

============================

#81 Screwed Canadian Gen Xer. on 05.27.18 at 7:39 pm
Those in expensive houses are not asking for ‘sympathy’, but asking not to be arbitrarily taxed because of a market they did not control. Seems reasonable. If they cannot pay the surtax, why should they be forced to sell? It doesn’t make housing more affordable for anyone. – Garth

Hey Garth, whatever happened to you assertion that nobody has the right to be able to own real estate? If somebody can’t afford to pay the surtax, they obviously are too house poor to be able to afford the house. Just like if they’re too poor to be able to afford the insurance or maintenance costs

You own nothing. It is group/community ownership at several levels – municipal, provincial, country, even condo.
You have the expensive privilege to live temporarily in the house until you have to sell in order to subsidize retirement.

Really quickly catches up with us.

Just one advice: Expect far more taxes and fees of different kind.

This is how their (the owners of this place) brains work:
hook you up with debt, benefit on inflation, while owning the oligopolies, make you believe you are rich with skyrocketing asset prices, then tax you to death.

Once in a generation.
Then rinse and repeat.

Ah, and provide some entertainment from time to time like T2/liberals/NDP and his/their marry band of robbers/professional con artists.

#128 WiseGuy on 05.28.18 at 12:12 am

We all pay tax on capital gains, so why should we not pay additional tax on additional homes. Makes sense to me! It’s a loophole that so many here in Canada have got away with for far too long, but no longer and now starts the long slow decline in the price of housing.

You thought 1990-2003 was bad, house prices will steadily drop for the next 7-10 years with increased taxes, higher interest rates and the banks stress tests.

#129 Stan Brooks on 05.28.18 at 12:13 am

merry band of robbers/professional con artists.

#130 PastThePeak on 05.28.18 at 12:19 am

Only through taxes can we truly be free…

#131 Stan Brooks on 05.28.18 at 12:21 am


#76 Shawn Allen on 05.27.18 at 7:28 pm

It’s a store of value in that you don’t have to spend your claim checks or earnings today but rather can store what you have earned as money (claim checks).

Come again. Store of value? The Canadian dollar under the wise BoC leadership?

Sigh….

#132 blobby on 05.28.18 at 12:37 am

My heart bleeds for them .. They worked hard for that money.. Buying their properties cheap and then having them go up in price 10 fold is hard work.

Personally if my property had gone up that much. I’d be cashing in, putting it into an portfolio, and move somewhere cheaper.. And never have to work again.

As for the people who bought at these prices.. Well they can afford 2 measly k a year extra if they can afford 3 million on a property.

#133 Ghosts of Temple Past on 05.28.18 at 12:41 am

Well Garth, either you misread that chart, or you lied about it. Which one is it? That chart is about wealth disparity, not about who’s obsessed with real estate. Consider it your guide to who’s not paying enough tax.

#134 Stan Brooks on 05.28.18 at 12:42 am

Follow the Money.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/screener/insider/MULRONEY%20BRIAN

BRIAN MULRONEY owns over 160 k shares of The Blackstone Group L.P. (BX) worth cool 5 mil. (USD) that pays over 11 % dividend.

Nice eh?

#135 Bobby on 05.28.18 at 1:14 am

You may want to be careful what you wish for. Sure, pitting homeowners against renters may make for some rousing political rhetoric, but what happens if it doesn’t stop there.
What’s next, those with defined benefit pensions and those without. There certainly is a gross disparity there. Interestingly, many of those who support the NDP are unionized government workers with gold plated pensions. Imagine the outcry if those in the private sector demand a wealth tax on government pensions. Where does it stop.?
How about those with trust funds like our PM and Finance Minister, and those who don’t. Perhaps those trust funds should be taxed at an exhorbinant rate too because those monies weren’t earned, they were inherited. Where does it stop?
I still contend the real solution is a tax on idiots. There would be millions given the financial illiterates that support the likes of the NDP.

#136 Fortune500 on 05.28.18 at 1:38 am

As with most political issues this is not as black and white as either side want to paint it. In a world filled with memes and supposed Alt-right, Far Left name calling, we need a great deal of nuance injected into our public discourse.

Here is the issue as I see it. Is it unfair that seniors who have lived in their homes for years are hit with a tax on their home equity … yes. Sort of. But we also have to deal with the reality of the situation.

The battle cry of many is if those under 40 don’t like it they should move. And many of them are. But if we can’t house the traditional ‘middle class’ anymore, who will do the work? You can’t sustain a city built entirely on retirees and rich astronaut families from China.
At the same time, why do we penalize random luck, and force someone in their twilight years to take on significant change and upheaval for something they had no control over?

So who should move? The young families, or the elderly home owners? The problem is that one of these two groups will need to move and that is completely unfair from a ‘fairness’ standpoint. But ask yourself what is better for the long term sustainability of our society and our cities?

At this stage there is already a migrant class of TFW filling positions as they are willing to work for less as they plan to repatriate money to lower cost countries. At the moment, this plan seems wise and sustainable to many of the Boomer generation who don’t want to make concessions.

But again, I ask you, is this a health long term strategy?

If the elderly couple sold their $3,000,000 home and moved to a condo, or slightly out of the core, just how criminal would this be? I my mind, it is far more criminal what we are doing to young families. Young families that any healthy society needs to sustain itself.

And before anyone comes here to tell me if I don’t like it move … we already did.

#137 Allan Statson on 05.28.18 at 6:16 am

“…The new BC levy is an asset tax. It matters not what someone who owns it paid to acquire it, or what they earn (they could be retired and on a fixed income)”

The answer has been given by BC realtors:
“Cannot pay? – Move to Regina!”

So, why the whines?
The pendulum just moved the other side :-))

#138 ImGonnaBeSick on 05.28.18 at 6:46 am

#136 Fortune500 – ok, so the elderly couple, who did not speculate, did not cause this housing frenzy, is on fixed income, sells their $3m home they’ve lived in for x decades, because of this extortion. Who buys it? The young family? Nope, they’re crying about the $1m homes. This is a criminal shakedown, will never see the light of day, and you should all be ashamed for even considering it to be a good idea.

#139 MF on 05.28.18 at 6:53 am

“Tax the wealth? Be careful what you wish for, kids.”

-Let’s not forget the last time Ontario had an NDP government in the early 90’s. Back then we Millennials were too young to vote.

I remember my parents complaining about Rae days.

Point: lets not make this into some age-demographic war because its not. I hear tons of older boomers who are delusional and want to vote NDP so they can get handouts.

They are probably the same ones who voted for NDP in 1990.

Just a little history is in order.

MF

#140 Renter's Revenge! on 05.28.18 at 7:17 am

Yet another example from Garth showing why you shouldn’t have the majority of your wealth tied up in your house.

jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/

“A government goes crazy with taxes.”

#141 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 7:24 am

#29 Penny Henny

“Bought in 2013 for $575,000 sold in 2018 for $976,000 with only minor updates completed. Would have went for more last March!”

I know that area very well. That home is on a street and an area that will continue to command top dollar for little bungalows which are bought for their lot value. This one was renovated but most are built to build on. Close to the subway and schools. A very high demand area and will continue to be going forward.

#142 Oli Gark on 05.28.18 at 7:25 am

“As long as we keep them asking the wrong questions we don’t have to worry about the answers.”

#143 Oli Gark on 05.28.18 at 7:33 am

The next phase is my favorite: they paint signs and walk around in circles.

#144 Victor V on 05.28.18 at 7:43 am

Indebted Canadians spread the blame amid ‘depressing reality’: Survey

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/indebted-canadians-spread-the-blame-amid-depressing-reality-survey-1.1083672

Nearly six out of every 10 respondents (58 per cent) said their household income would have to rise substantially in order for them to survive without debt; on average, respondents said their household would have to see a 37 per cent surge in income in order to shake their debt habits.

“It used to be that people would save for big purchases and have some money tucked away for emergencies. Now Canadians look straight to HELOCs or credit cards or other forms of debt when it comes to paying for unexpected car repairs, home maintenance, and even basic household expenses,” Bazian added.

The survey results come just two days before the Bank of Canada will release an interest rate decision, at which time much of the attention will circle around Canadians’ sensitivity to higher rates amid near-record debt levels.

#145 Chris on 05.28.18 at 7:48 am

I don’t know where you get thinking rent is far less than owning a home.

Renting a 1 bedroom in Halifax is 800-900 minimum … There used to be places that cost 700.00 years ago but they are very rare today.

If you’re really fancy, its 1000.00+ for 2 bedrooms … 1400.00 for condo apartments. Speaking of which Halifax is building condos everywhere. Whatever they don’t sell at 300 – 400,000 they rent for obscene amounts.

I complain and I live in a decent housing market compared to the rest of the country yet everything is still overvalued.

Greed is the reason the correction hasn’t taken place, and it will be greed when the dealing is done. Predatory lending might be on the way or do they continue this for another 10 years.

#146 NYCer on 05.28.18 at 7:49 am

Don’t have too much of an opinion on the BC residential surtax but for those questioning how will people afford to pay, can they not take out the HELOC and invest it for proceeds and use that to pay some tax and pay the interest of HELOC and make some extra $$$?

The money invested in the market will be an ice boost too.

#147 Tater on 05.28.18 at 7:59 am

#86 Soy Boy on 05.27.18 at 8:23 pm
Meh, 55% marginal rate isn’t scary at all. The US used to have 90% in the post-ww2 period and they did great. I think that’s where we need to be, so every step on that direction helps.
—————————————————————–

As per the Congressional Research Service, the effective tax rate for the top 0.1% back then was 45%.

When the tax rates get that punitive, people find ways to minimize the amount of tax they pay.

#148 Glengarry Girl on 05.28.18 at 8:02 am

I live in both Countries and to put it Simply, the US is divided by political affiliation and racism while in Canada we are divided by wealth inequality and ageism.

#149 dharma bum on 05.28.18 at 8:09 am

I love hearing the wealthy squeal. HaHaHaHa.
——————————————————————–

Oh, by the way, they’re coming for you next!

“Send lawyers, guns and money…the shit has hit the fan!”
(Warren Zevon)

#150 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.28.18 at 8:22 am

@#86 Soy Boy
“Tax everything to prevent excessive accumulation. Large inter generational wealth is toxic to a society and its social fabric.”
+++++
Why, because you’re not wealthy?
Tax the rich. The “rich” just leave and the middle class stop working to get ahead.
Suck away all incentive to work hard to get ahead.
The communist collective failed economically and socially in Russia, China and now Venezuela.
Try again

#151 Tater on 05.28.18 at 8:24 am

#122 Yorkville Renter on 05.28.18 at 12:00 am
I’d refuse to pay the extra tax.. the gov’t is taxing an estimate… you earn nothing until you sell, so I can’t be taxed on a gain that has not yet materialized.

Tax should be based on what you paid + gov’t declared annual increases
—————————————————————–

You’ve argued that government should eliminate a tax that is based on an estimate, and replace it with a tax based on a different estimate.

And home owners are already being taxed on the estimated value of their home under the traditional property tax system.

This “speculation tax” is a mess and won’t stop speculation. Would be better to have a holding period before the principal residence exemption kicks in. Call it 5 years, with exemptions for hardship like job loss, death of spouse etc.

Under 5 years and over 2 years, gains are taxed as capital gains, under 2 as income.

#152 In Other Words... on 05.28.18 at 8:32 am

Stop whining and get a HELOC like every other self-respecting Canadian does.

#153 Dolce Vita on 05.28.18 at 8:36 am

“Tax the wealth? Be careful what you wish for, kids.”

So true.

Recession: when the guy next door loses his job.
Depression: when you lose your job.

One day the shoe will be on the other foot (as in “tax your wealth”).

#154 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.28.18 at 8:38 am

@#136 Bobby
“I still contend the real solution is a tax on idiots. There would be millions given the financial illiterates that support the likes of the NDP.”
++++++

Or there should be a alternative to voting for the same old political hacks.
“None of the Above” on every ballot.
If NotA won the popular vote….. all politicians would be banned from office for one year while accountants auditted and published who and where the money has been squandered….all while paying the necessary services to function.
No new Laws, no new taxes just bills getting paid.
Any extrodinary expenditures would be approved by referendum.
Think of the money we’d save in poltical lobbyist fees/kickbacks alone.

Where is John Galt?

#155 Victor V on 05.28.18 at 9:00 am

#119 YVR – 60% crash! on 05.27.18 at 11:41 pm

“Canadian political landscape leans left” Because the general public are pissed.

=======

Pissed… Because of denial or fear?

http://financeandcareer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/psychology-of-asset-bubbles.jpg

#156 Tony on 05.28.18 at 9:02 am

Re: #134 Stan Brooks on 05.28.18 at 12:42 am

I hope he’s hedged.

#157 Tater on 05.28.18 at 9:10 am

#142 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 7:24 am
#29 Penny Henny

“Bought in 2013 for $575,000 sold in 2018 for $976,000 with only minor updates completed. Would have went for more last March!”

I know that area very well. That home is on a street and an area that will continue to command top dollar for little bungalows which are bought for their lot value. This one was renovated but most are built to build on. Close to the subway and schools. A very high demand area and will continue to be going forward.
—————————————————————-
That’s one of the dumpiest areas of Etobicoke. Close to the subway? Its a 10 minute walk to Islington, then a bus ride to the subway. 20 minutes just to get to the station.

#158 SunShowers on 05.28.18 at 9:15 am

“This is class warfare”

People only call it class warfare when the poor try to take their money back from the rich. When the rich take money from the poor it’s just called capitalism.

“Real estate ownership is a middle-class obsession. The top 1% of society have just 10% of their net worth in property. The bottom 90%, in contrast, are obsessed with houses – with almost 60% of wealth tied up there. ”

I think there’s a simpler explanation, Garth. The top 1% of society have much more money than the bottom 90% (natch), so that just dilutes the total value that’s tied up in a home. Entirely possible for a bottom 90%er to own a $200,000 home with a net worth of $300,000, and a top 1%er to have a $500,000 home with a net worth of 5 mil.

But you’re right, we won’t get far without addressing wealth stored in financial assets and/or obtained from capital gains. Give it time.

#159 AGuyInVancouver on 05.28.18 at 9:16 am

Those in expensive houses are not asking for ‘sympathy’, but asking not to be arbitrarily taxed because of a market they did not control. Seems reasonable. If they cannot pay the surtax, why should they be forced to sell? It doesn’t make housing more affordable for anyone. – Garth
_ _ _
And if Millenials cannot find affordable housing because of aging boomers clinging onto multimillion dollar homes, why should they have to move as you have repeatedly suggested? They’ll be the ones making a contribution to the local economy. And let’s not forget, the same cohort protesting this tax are usually the ones who show up to bitch and moan at every rezoning hearing that attempts to add more housing to their neighbourhoods.

Who is really hurt by this tax? There are precious few ordinary, working Canadian folks living in the affected homes. Retirees can defer their taxes and let the kids pay it. Canada is unusual in not having an inheritance tax, so consider this one. The other demographic that now holds most of these homes can easily cough up the money.

It’s time posters realize the Reagan-Thatcher economic era is deservedly staggering to it’s death, choking on its own vomit of excess. Ordinary people benefitted little from it, while the wealthy benefitted mightily.

#160 AGuyInVancouver on 05.28.18 at 9:21 am

Those in expensive houses are not asking for ‘sympathy’, but asking not to be arbitrarily taxed because of a market they did not control. Seems reasonable. If they cannot pay the surtax, why should they be forced to sell? It doesn’t make housing more affordable for anyone. – Garth
_ __
Why should working Millenials be forced to move to find affordable housing as you have repeatedly suggested? They will be the ones making meaningful contributions to the economy. And let’s not forget, the cohort leading these protests are the same ones who fight tooth and nail against any rezoning to add density in their leafy enclaves.

Who’s really hurt by this tax? There aren’t ordinary, working, upper middle class folks in these homes. Pensioners can defer the tax and let their kids sort it out (think of it as an inheritance tax). The other demographic that owns them can easily cough up the cash.

As I said, forcing people to move from houses you will never be able to buy does not make real estate more affordable for anyone. It’s merely taxing people extra because they have more than you. Ugly. – Garth

#161 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 9:43 am

#146 Chris on 05.28.18 at 7:48 am

Greed is the reason the correction hasn’t taken place, and it will be greed when the dealing is done. Predatory lending might be on the way or do they continue this for another 10 years.
___________________________

If I got greedy and listed my lawn mower for 20K – it would sit on the market and rot. I’d have to list it at 3K or so to draw interest. It would sell in a day or two at 2.5K. That’s the zone, 2.5-3K. No one would be interested much over 3K.

“Greed” comes after realizing folks exist out there who will pay insane dollars for what you got.

Last year I sold a 30+ year old off-road vehicle for 3X what I paid for it. I only started thinking about selling when I saw what they were going for on Kijiji. When Wynne cranked the cost of a sticker over 50% – I decided this was the time to say goodbye as it was a 3rd vehicle and just a toy. Gone in no time with a pile of interest. Millennial kid bought it – go figure.

I don’t disagree that houses are high cost items these days – but it’s not because the asking price is high – it’s because the SELLING price is high.

#162 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 10:05 am

#148 Tater on 05.28.18 at 7:59 am

When the tax rates get that punitive, people find ways to minimize the amount of tax they pay.
______________________________________

Laffer curve economics. Folks disagree – but a general consensus can be found in that somewhere between 60-70% total taxation is the straw that breaks the camels back.

I have a feeling many Canadians will not lift a finger, or turn a page to better their condition. The biggest bill a Canadian pays is actually their total all-in taxes. More than food, shelter, education, you name it – everything costs less than taxes in Canada. We should all be experts in offsetting and sidestepping it – but instead, I get the idea a lot of Canadians think taxes are great, and the more the better.

I don’t think it will be long before most of the middle class in Canada will be pushed into the 60+% zone. All you need is a decent job, a decent house in certain markets, a couple cars, a couple kids, and blamo – you’re giving more of what you make to government than you keep – by a significant margin.

Kinda makes you start doing the math to see how early you can retire…

#163 Classical Liberal Millennial on 05.28.18 at 10:22 am

I’m surprised at the amount of support for this kind of tax from the comments here. Maybe I shouldn’t be. However, I thought the people (other than SCM) here were not part of the lowest common denominator this type of progressive economic policy appeals to. Equity has very little to do with cash flow when you’ve been there for 30 years.

#164 Wrk.dover on 05.28.18 at 10:29 am

So, they had a World War. The second one. The country pulled together, and all businesses did all they could to help, and not necessarily gouge out dollar returns. All together for a cause. The War was won, the surviving warriors came home, got jobs that paid for modest homes, and families were raised. The St. Lawrence Seaway was built. Hwy. 401. The QEW. Terminal one at Malton. The Gardiner Expressway. The Bloor St Subway line. So on and so on. Al in the late fifties and sixties.

Today the I got mine, Got Miners, just want further reduced taxes, financial engineering and Flow up called trickle down. Well they have what they want. A stagnating failing collective called Canada, and personal assets.

Meantime trying to replace corporate tax cuts is opposed if it involves taxing wealth.

Hmmm.

I have sympathy for a person that has resided at the same address for decades. A mover and a shaker that has doubled their purchase price in five or ten years is just a transient mercenary. Tax them to death for their lottery gain.

#165 X on 05.28.18 at 10:49 am

As I said, forcing people to move from houses you will never be able to buy does not make real estate more affordable for anyone. It’s merely taxing people extra because they have more than you. Ugly. – Garth

By doing this all you have achieved is that the punitive taxes will result in never accumulating much wealth, and if you are lucky enough to do so, you have guaranteed yourself higher taxes.

How many people vote to ‘tax the rich’, yet are employed by the same ‘rich’. Good luck getting your next raise.

#166 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 11:13 am

#158 Tater

“That’s one of the dumpiest areas of Etobicoke. Close to the subway? Its a 10 minute walk to Islington, then a bus ride to the subway. 20 minutes just to get to the station.”

You sound like a total moron and I suspect you are. Drive across Edgecroft, the street in question and you will count 25 homes that have been built in the last 15 years on what were former bungalows like the one that was posted. Read how fast the home sold for. One day. A very high demand area. It is, depending where you are on Edgecroft (it starts at Islington) a couple minutes to the bus stop. You can walk to the Islington subway in 20 minutes without the TTC. One of the dumpiest areas in Etobicoke is the joke statement of the day. Get closer to Bloor and you are into multi million dollar homes. Cut down on the crack cowboy…

#167 Blacksheep on 05.28.18 at 11:20 am

Shawn # 76,

“Well money is not a real thing. It’s intangible. It’s just a score keeping mechanism to show who has a claim check on the real goods and services. This is especially true of fiat money, which works wonderfully bit is clearly intangible.

It’s a medium of exchange. (You can exchange real goods and services for an intangible dollar that is a claim check on all goods and services in the amount of a dollar).

It’s a unit of account. We tote up wealth and the value of all financial assets in dollars.

It’s a store of value in that you don’t have to spend your claim checks or earnings today but rather can store what you have earned as money (claim checks).

Government workers contribute to the creation of valuable services and receive claim checks (money) good for all other goods and services. The created services have value no matter what currency is used.

Similarly the private sector workers receive claim checks.

Both groups must give back some of their intangible claim checks as taxes.

Also, government services are components of GDP along with the various private sector goods and services categories.

All components of the economy work together in an interactive way to create everything.

Ponder: Can you imagine a country where everyone worked for the government and private business was not allowed? (Cuba may have been a case until recently). In such a case could government provide all goods and services with no private sector to possibly subsidize it? I believe that as in Cuba the per capita amount of goods and services would be lower, but it would not be zero.

At the end of the day, if government workers earn their money by producing valuable goods and services without which the private sector could not function and if private sector workers must pay their deemed fair share of that then there is no problem is there?”
————————————-
100% agree….

There is “no problem” and never was, I simply stated what I believe to be a truth, as others broached the subject, but you don’t want hear the truth, bluntly delivered here. Of course gov. employees deserve equal pay, for equal work, just like the private sector. I have family employed by gov.

More importantly, It seems your intentionally avoiding the only relevant question: What / who, is the ‘primary source’ of said ‘claim cheques’ that pay for the required gov. services we all use and need?

It has to come from somewhere as someone, has traded their precious, labour / knowledge for said ‘claim cheques’.

Governments do not have the ability to create nearly enough ‘claim cheques’ to cover the running of its operations. This is actually a good thing because the private sector, does not need / want competition for profits, from any gov.

Why the hell else would we pay so bloody much taxes, if you know, the gov. doesn’t really need it? (leave MMT out of this please)

This is why:

“I claimed the operational costs of running, all levels of government are largely subsidised by the private sector.”

Still stands, unless you have something else of relevance to share?

#168 Effluent on 05.28.18 at 11:24 am

All you BC owners of 3 million $ houses stop your damn whining ! You won the lottery and didn’t do much to see you home result in an extremely inflated price which happened primarily due to inept politicians and a world wide greed ethic of banks. You have three choices, sell and move, delay the property taxes til you croak or get put in a seniors compound. No one feels sorry for you. People are struggling everywhere to find rental homes , pay the bills and keep a job. You’re bitchin your house is to expensive. I’m not an NDP supporter but David Eby is a breath of fresh air after the BC Liberals under Christy Cluck

#169 Damifino on 05.28.18 at 11:26 am

#165 Wrk.dover

I have sympathy for a person that has resided at the same address for decades. A mover and a shaker that has doubled their purchase price in five or ten years is just a transient mercenary. Tax them to death for their lottery gain.
————————————–

There is no provision in dipper legislation to account for the difference. Nor will there be. They will use the same blunt hammer as always. Then they’ll be banished to the shadows for another dozen or more years. Ho hum.

#170 Average Home Prices on 05.28.18 at 11:35 am

This never gives one the big picture because they are not weighted. A couple of expensive sales can cause a distortion. Look at sales instead to determine the market direction.

#171 Proof ? on 05.28.18 at 11:42 am

comment to # 167 Be Realistic

“Its all about demand and the demand only continues to get stronger.”

Yeah, right – I guess that is why sales numbers are down dramatically in many markets.

Seriously, do you even read what you write ?

The sales figures indicate that demand is falling, so inherently your ideas are erroneous.

Then to add to your error, you mention that B20 and the NDP policies will not affect demand, when in fact they demonstrably have – through the dropping sales volumes and prices.

Reminder to self – scroll past Be Realistic’s postings like you do Mark’s.

#172 Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 11:42 am

“The Donald” maintains his stance that the “Canadian Auto Industry” is causing harm to the United States.

What?

Canada doesn’t have an auto industry. We have no domestic auto producers at all.

The last domestically produced automobile in Canada was the Delorean.

Our car plants are all operated by foreign companies. The three biggest of these companies, GM, Ford and Chrysler, are all American.

Is this guy a total moron?

#173 Fake News Again on 05.28.18 at 11:56 am

1. The Canadian arms of the big 3 are independent wholly owned companies

2. The harm he is talking about is how the Govt BUYS votes by giving into union demands with TAXPAYER incentives.

#174 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 11:57 am

#172 Damifino on 05.28.18 at 11:26 am
#165 Wrk.dover

I have sympathy for a person that has resided at the same address for decades. A mover and a shaker that has doubled their purchase price in five or ten years is just a transient mercenary. Tax them to death for their lottery gain.
————————————–

There is no provision in dipper legislation to account for the difference. Nor will there be. They will use the same blunt hammer as always. Then they’ll be banished to the shadows for another dozen or more years. Ho hum.
____________

There is a local area out my way that gentrified stratospherically a couple decades ago. Taxes were recalculated for the entire area – in this case a long scenic waterfront drive.

The issue with the decades old farmers and so on that still lived there was dealt with easily – they didn’t have to pay the new taxes – the new taxes started with the next owner when the old folks sold off.

What could be easier than this? Of course, the city did have to wait a decade or more to cash in – but they were happy to be fair with the long time agricultural base that lived there.

Today, most of those old houses have been sold off and dozed, and the big taxes on the new mansions are rolling in paid by those who can well afford them.

Does the NDP just hate poor people? Or do they just want the poor people out asap to make room for more rich folks? Why not just make current owners exempt and start the new tax when sold?

One thing is for sure – every old retired Silent Gen on that road is gone – sold out, made a pile; and moved. Only rich folks there now…

#175 Rexx Rock on 05.28.18 at 12:02 pm

DELETED

#176 HH on 05.28.18 at 12:16 pm

In regard of this tax the wealthy mantra the “I want it now” Millennials don’t realize that the old folks with all this wealth eventually die and distribute sizeable estates to guess who – the Millennials. So time to make these Millennials realize this tax is really just an early tax on themselves. It’s made my Millennial kids think harder about the issue.

#177 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 12:29 pm

#175 Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 11:42 am
“The Donald” maintains his stance that the “Canadian Auto Industry” is causing harm to the United States.

What?

Canada doesn’t have an auto industry. We have no domestic auto producers at all.

The last domestically produced automobile in Canada was the Delorean.

Our car plants are all operated by foreign companies. The three biggest of these companies, GM, Ford and Chrysler, are all American.

Is this guy a total moron?
_______________________________________

He’s just behind the times 20 years. Ontario used to have a big output of (yes foreign owned) automotive products.

Now, it’s still here mainly due to folks like Trudeau quietly handing out tax revenues to GM/Chrysler. Back in the 90’s GM had over 15,000 employees at GM Oshawa – now it’s like 2700 – and I hear they’re bulldozing some of the buildings. That’s not exactly promising for the future. All Dias wanted in the latest deals were “guaranteed new models” for the Ontario plants. Even this guy knows what is coming (nothing).

I do a lot of work for people who do a lot of work for the auto industry (ie that trickle down stuff that “doesn’t work”) The company I deal with is American owned, Canadian based (for now), and all the projects are in the Southern US and Mexico. Zero in Canada. ZERO. This work has to do with new production plans for new and existing plants.

IMHO, all Trump needs to do to eradicate the auto industry in Canada – is to sit back – and just let Canadians vote.

#178 Gravy Train on 05.28.18 at 12:30 pm

#175 Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 11:42 am
“Is this guy [Donald Trump] a total moron?”

I think you’re overestimating his intelligence! :)

#179 Penny Henny on 05.28.18 at 12:31 pm

#162 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 9:43 am
#146 Chris on 05.28.18 at 7:48 am

Greed is the reason the correction hasn’t taken place, and it will be greed when the dealing is done. Predatory lending might be on the way or do they continue this for another 10 years.
___________________________

If I got greedy and listed my lawn mower for 20K – it would sit on the market and rot. I’d have to list it at 3K or so to draw interest. It would sell in a day or two at 2.5K. That’s the zone, 2.5-3K. No one would be interested much over 3K.

————————-

I think I have lawnmower envy.

#180 Wrk.dover on 05.28.18 at 12:38 pm

Any retiree that doesn’t have enough sense to take a gift of a million dollars more than their musty old city house cost them in the first place, and relocate to Sun City Arizona, needs to be hit on the head with a hammer any way. Designed for senior living.

After doubling her money in the family home in Toronto in twenty years pre-retirement, my ancient mother sold her Niagara retirement home for a ten fold gain, after thirty years of retirement there. Now she is in an assisted care facility in small town Ontario about equivalent to a cruise ship for $3500/month all in. For a decade now, no more eating five year old canned soup from her hoard and wondering why her guts hurt.

When she perishes, I’d like dibs on her apartment in that care facility. It is that nice.

The old folks in Van? Tax them! The smart ones will thank you and move along.

#181 Penny Henny on 05.28.18 at 12:38 pm

#175 Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 11:42 am
“The Donald” maintains his stance that the “Canadian Auto Industry” is causing harm to the United States.

What?

Canada doesn’t have an auto industry. We have no domestic auto producers at all.

The last domestically produced automobile in Canada was the Delorean.
/////////////////////

Delorean was built in Northern Ireland.
Maybe you are thinking about Bricklin.

#182 NDP Leader on 05.28.18 at 12:42 pm

She has moved into the Ford Nation hood talking to the ladies in coffee shops. In walked the Liberal running there during a discussion – what a coincidence. He in fact supported the NDP by saying we all must work together to defeat Ford. Politics is amazing to watch it all unfold.

#183 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 12:43 pm

#175 Ace Goodheart

“Is this guy a total moron (Trump).”

In a word, yes.

#184 Penny Henny on 05.28.18 at 12:44 pm

#176 Be Realistic on 05.28.18 at 11:43 am

Oh and for the record, I am not “pumping anything”, I am bringing some counter arguments to the table. I come to your blog to get counter information/opinions to my own.

Don’t be so sensitive. Debate is healthy.

Debating requires facts. You shovel opinion. That’s pumping. Things must be slow at the brokerage these days. – Garth

//////////////////////

Oh my. The gloves come off.
Insinuations that ‘Be Realistic’ is a realtor.
The horror!
/sarc off

#185 Tater on 05.28.18 at 12:45 pm

#168 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 11:13 am
#158 Tater

“That’s one of the dumpiest areas of Etobicoke. Close to the subway? Its a 10 minute walk to Islington, then a bus ride to the subway. 20 minutes just to get to the station.”

You sound like a total moron and I suspect you are. Drive across Edgecroft, the street in question and you will count 25 homes that have been built in the last 15 years on what were former bungalows like the one that was posted. Read how fast the home sold for. One day. A very high demand area. It is, depending where you are on Edgecroft (it starts at Islington) a couple minutes to the bus stop. You can walk to the Islington subway in 20 minutes without the TTC. One of the dumpiest areas in Etobicoke is the joke statement of the day. Get closer to Bloor and you are into multi million dollar homes. Cut down on the crack cowboy…
—————————————————————–
You cannot walk from there to the subway in 20 minutes. It is over 2.5kms. There’s this thing called google maps, give it a try some time.

I grew up in Etobicoke, and lived there as an adult. That area is junk. Got a bunch of industrial buildings on the other side of Islington. Really nice.

Sorry if that’s where you live, but it’s not a great neighborhood. Kingsway is good, Edenbridge is good, Princess Anne area is good, Sunnylea east of Royal York is good.

And that fact that idiots have over leveraged themselves to buy ugly infill houses in that area doesn’t make it nice. Average household income is 100k. Wow, that’s really the movers and shakers!

#186 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 1:02 pm

#138 ImGonnaBeSick on 05.28.18 at 6:46 am
#136 Fortune500 – ok, so the elderly couple, who did not speculate, did not cause this housing frenzy, is on fixed income, sells their $3m home they’ve lived in for x decades, because of this extortion. Who buys it? The young family? Nope, they’re crying about the $1m homes. This is a criminal shakedown, will never see the light of day, and you should all be ashamed for even considering it to be a good idea.
______________________________________

Yep, a tax policy like this would quickly clean the neighbourhood of any poor people. Not what I would have expected from the NDP, but it does look like they have a solid cheering section for evicting non-rich folks out of their multi-decade homes.

If you take an honest look at what a tax policy like this would achieve, you’d have to assume that the NDP is aiming to severely gentrify any half decent neighbourhoods that still exist outside the hands of the rich.

#187 Brett in Calgary on 05.28.18 at 1:07 pm

Yep, I thought the same thing re: residential real estate. Still the graphic illustrates that the well-off are so because of business/equity/planning and the rest are poor because of houses/debt/thejoneses.

———————————————————
#10 mike from mtl on 05.27.18 at 2:11 pm

Point is well taken but that chart is a bit misleading. Especially since that’s US data, the 1%ers I assume in the 10-100M range so even a few million in primary residence is for sure small percent wise. Of course real estate as an asset does not scale linearly, for the 99% primary residence would naturally take the vast majority of their NW.

#188 Damifino on 05.28.18 at 1:11 pm

#178 IHCTD9

Thank you for your response. It actually makes some sense, especially when compared to other things posted here. Exempting long time house-rich but low income owners from the new wealth-confiscation surtax is a reasonable idea. At least the next owners (who probably really are rich) will go in with their eyes open.

And that’s exactly why I wouldn’t expect the BC provincial government to do it. They need more cash in the kitty right now. That is clearly the motivation. It has nothing much to do with lowering the cost of housing in Dunbar for the benefit of the middle class.

#189 Dissident on 05.28.18 at 1:22 pm

Is it any coincidence that the 1990s real estate crash coincided with NDP premier Bob Rae being elected? Judging by the Toronto housing market, we may see another NDP’er in office. Correlation does not equal causation, but, you know. Trends persist.

#190 Ubul on 05.28.18 at 1:25 pm

For all the morons debating the “Canadian Auto Industry”.

https://www.cvma.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Website-WP-Important-Facts-Pdf-March-23-2017.pdf

#191 victor on 05.28.18 at 1:36 pm

I don’t know why you are trying so hard to defend taxes on people who own million dollar homes or have second or third houses? Why are you so angry about this Garth..are you in the top 1 percent maybe..is there a problem with getting the filthy rich to pay a bit more. The top 1 percent are often rich because they have expensive lawyers and accountants who find all sorts of creative ways to not pay taxes..hide money overseas and so on..and you want to defend these people??
Even a fixed income senior owning a million dollar plus home should be able to afford these taxes..or just sell the house..I mean live off the million dollars or more in equity.
Many Canadians are right in being angry that they cant affford to buy a house because our government and central bankers loosened mortgage rules too much 10-15 years ago..kept interest rates at emergency levels for way way too long..encouraging ramplant speculation which has driven many Canadians out of the market. And now you whine incessantly on your blog about these poor millionaires who have to pay more on their houses..give me a break. Canadians rightly should have the pitchforks out..enough is enough with the crazy prices. And yes it will cause a bad recession..so be it..there is no easy way to pop a ridiculous bubble..and the blame is not on the governments taxes..the blame is first on loose monetary policy from central bankers and then loose mortgage rules by the governments 10-15 years ago..thats where the pitchforks should be aimed at.

Why are wealthy people ‘filthy’? Lose the anger. You’ll last longer. – Garth

#192 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 1:57 pm

#191 Tater

I don’t live there but I know the area. Have you seen the homes that have been built on Edgecroft? Drive down the street and check it out. You will continue to see bungalow after bungalow after bungalow be torn down and new homes built on the lot. The factories are disappearing and being replaced by townhomes that sell for big buckeroos. See below for a sample of townhomes built at the corner of Norseman and Islington. Edenbridge is the creme de la creme, the best area in Etobicoke. The Kingsway and Princess Anne are also top spots. No argument there. Your assertion that this is a dumpy area is laughable. On the south side of Bloor between Islington and Royal York you have multi million dollar homes a stone’s throw up the street from Edgecroft. I walk at a 10 minute kilometre pace so I was off by 5 minutes. When were you last there?? How do you know everyone who has bought there is over leveraged? Average incomes are like the average depth of a lake being 2 inches and still being able to drown. I know millionaires that live in the area.

http://www.condoroyalty.com/westhaven-townhomes

#193 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 2:04 pm

#191 Tater

Here is a home for sale 2 streets north of Edgecroft. Still think it is a dumpy area?

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/19485273/36-AMBLESIDE-AVE-Toronto-Ontario-M8Z2H7-Stonegate-Queensway

#194 Shawn Allen on 05.28.18 at 2:04 pm

Actually, the Government Earns its Tax Revenue

Blacksheep at 169:

What / who, is the ‘primary source’ of said ‘claim cheques’ that pay for the required gov. services we all use and need?

It has to come from somewhere as someone, has traded their precious, labour / knowledge for said ‘claim cheques’.

Governments do not have the ability to create nearly enough ‘claim cheques’ to cover the running of its operations. This is actually a good thing because the private sector, does not need / want competition for profits, from any gov.

Why the hell else would we pay so bloody much taxes, if you know, the gov. doesn’t really need it? (leave MMT out of this please)

****************************************
Government employee and government capital create valued and essential goods and services.

These are provided to the population / private sector in return for those people giving up a portion of the value they create.

In effect people pay for government services much like you pay at the grocery store. (Except you pay a deemed fair amount since we don’t consume most government services individually but rather collectively).

Setting aside waste and inefficiency the value of essential government services equals at least its cost. (Same as for grocery store)

So the population / private sector pays a fair price for the essential services. The government earns those claim checks just like any other entity earns its keep. And yes it needs those claim checks (money).

In fact debt is needed only because the population does not want to pay the full and fair cost of government annually and instead (collectively) wishes (and votes) the government to borrow some money and the population pays only the interest. To some extent this is appropriate because much government infrastructure built today will be around for the use of people in the future.

The government is no more subsidized than is the grocery store as long as it “charges” a fair price in taxes for all its services.

#195 conservatives on 05.28.18 at 2:11 pm

put Rob Ford as their leader then…..complain about the result

true story

#196 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 2:12 pm

#198 Victor

“Why are you so angry about this Garth..are you in the top 1 percent maybe?”

Victor, Victor, Victor. You need to ask that question? Of course the bearded mystic financial sage that writes this pathetic blog is in the top 1 percent. Sheesh!

#197 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 2:14 pm

No comments from any blog dog on the big leadership debate in Ontario last night?

#198 Chris on 05.28.18 at 2:14 pm

Today’s picture – I can’t take my eyes off the bridesmaid’s knee. How does it bend backwards like that?

#199 Barb on 05.28.18 at 2:21 pm

The Liberals (federal) are just NDPers in suits.

Same crap, different bucket.

#200 Linda on 05.28.18 at 2:29 pm

#72 Keith – thanks for the information. In return, check out the March 2018 Global News update on the BC government breaking ground on the first of the affordable housing units. Apparently the revised plan is to build 1,700 units over the next 4 years as opposed to the 11,400 units per year they would have had to build in order to produce 114,000 housing units in the 10 year time frame. So that great pre-election promise has been subjected to quite the revision, wouldn’t you say?

Now let us look at the estimated cost. The pre-election platform estimated $2 billion to build the 114,000 units. That works out to some $17,544 per unit. I may not have a current price list for labour, land or materials handy but I am quite certain that amount is insufficient in todays economy.

Back to the March 2018 news update. The project under construction is supposed to have 203 units of various sizes ranging from studios to 3 bedroom homes. Some of those units will be set aside for low income tenants (the rent will be set to match the declared income). The article mentioned 30%, but then mentioned 30 units so the exact number of units to be set aside isn’t clear. The remainder of the units have a beginning estimated rental rate of $1,500 per month & up for anyone who isn’t designated as ‘low income’.

Nothing I read mentions any of the new taxes on property going towards the cost of providing the new housing. So the question remains: what will those new taxes be used for? Presumably if they collect them, they should be able to track where the funds end up once they get added to ‘general revenues’. Transparency, anyone?

#201 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 2:30 pm

#205 Chris on 05.28.18 at 2:14 pm

Today’s picture – I can’t take my eyes off the bridesmaid’s knee. How does it bend backwards like that?
__________________

She refused to tap out?

Maybe her Dad was a Satyr?

Looks painful whatever’s going on…

#202 James on 05.28.18 at 2:42 pm

#189 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 12:43 pm
#175 Ace Goodheart
“Is this guy a total moron (Trump).”
In a word, yes.
________________________________________
Yes the father is a complete misogynistic cheating conniving manipulative scumbag. However if you leave out the misogynistic part that pretty well sums up the daughter as well.

China this month awarded Ivanka Trump seven new trademarks across a broad collection of businesses, including books, housewares and cushions.
At around the same time, President Trump vowed to find a way to prevent a major Chinese telecommunications company from going bust, even though the company has a history of violating American limits on doing business with countries like Iran and North Korea.

Coincidence? Well, probably, I think not!

#203 Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 2:44 pm

RE: #200 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 2:04 pm

36 Ambleside:

That area is undergoing a lot of redevelopment.

Principal draw is not the “dumpy old” 1940s 2+1 bedroom block houses with hallway/galley kitchens and cheap 1940s decor, but rather the lot sizes.

Back when these houses were built, it was considered normal to put them on massive lots, with enough space on each side to drive a truck past, and back yards that are still being used for farming by some residents (including the notorious and now banned Toronto backyard chicken farms).

The lots are huge. You can easily build two houses on them. People are purchasing the 1940s crap shacks and just bulldozing them and building palaces.

#204 James on 05.28.18 at 2:44 pm

#11 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.27.18 at 2:13 pm

@# 9 salted
“Its Smoking Man”
++++++

Ahahahahahahahaha.

Speedo Man
________________________________
California life has really improved Smoking Mans looks. Did you check to see if he has any real teeth?

#205 PastThePeak on 05.28.18 at 2:49 pm

Canadian definition of rich = anyone who makes more money than me…

#206 Tater on 05.28.18 at 2:56 pm

#200 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 2:04 pm
#191 Tater

Here is a home for sale 2 streets north of Edgecroft. Still think it is a dumpy area?

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/19485273/36-AMBLESIDE-AVE-Toronto-Ontario-M8Z2H7-Stonegate-Queensway

—————————————————————-
Some builder putting a 2 million dollar house in an area surrounded by dumpy bungalows on 30 foot lots doesn’t make it nice.

In that neighborhood only 25% of people have a university education, and less than 5% of households make over 200k. So, if you’re buying that house, by far you have the nicest house on the street and in the neighborhood.

And considering the dearth of homes selling for over 1.25mio in that hood, I suspect that place will sit for a while. Especially when you can buy this for the same price, 1.1 kms from Royal York subway, in a nicer neighborhood north of Bloor. https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/19413951/104-WESTROSE-AVE-Toronto-Ontario-M8X2A3-Kingsway-South#v=n

#207 Dissident on 05.28.18 at 2:57 pm

I’d like to point out that Garth’s beautiful graph is *proportional to the population sample*, meaning, the reason why you see so much real estate *common* to the “bottom 90%” is because most people own the roof over their head…and don’t have excess $$ to put elsewhere after they’ve satisfied that aspect of their lives, unlike the 1%-ers or 10%-ers. Its just math.

And real estate is not an obsession as much as a necessity; to live in a home, rather than be homeless. Realistically, if EVERYONE who currently owns, sold their homes right now with the intent to rent…who would they rent their house from? The bank? LOL. I mean, aside from the fact that we already ‘rent’ from the bank via mortgage.

The reason the left side of the chart is weighted towards the 10-1%-ers is cause as a wealthy person, you have more money to spread around after you’ve covered your ‘basic needs’ and living necessities, like shelter, be it after paying a mortgage OR paying rent(!) That’s just reality, not an ‘obsession’.

We could likewise say that the wealthy are ‘obsessed’ with business equity Why? Cause they’re the dudes who own all the stores and services we 90% buy our stuff from, obviously.

And where do you think most now-wealthy people obtained it from? – Garth

#208 Samantha on 05.28.18 at 3:01 pm

Very well said and a really sad fact at the same time.

=======================

#94 domain on 05.27.18 at 8:58 pm

……
Socialists never learn. They just come up with different excuses why socialism has failed in the past. It is a political ideology for losers.

#209 Drake Thompson on 05.28.18 at 3:21 pm

How come nobody wants to admit that the NDP is really a communist, socialist party.

They are not democratic at all. You have no choice under communism, socialism.

#210 The Debate on 05.28.18 at 3:23 pm

#204 Conn Smythe – Ford was crushed as the women had Ford on the ropes gasping. They hit him where it hurt because he had no plan to produce. Ford is all talk with no detailed plan in writing for the voters to read and analyze. He said he was working on it lol.

#211 Bobby on 05.28.18 at 3:30 pm

For #198 Victor
You sound like an entitled lefty. Imagine telling a senior on a fixed income to move if they cannot afford the taxes on their so called expensive house, probably one they scrimped and saved for when they bought it 40 years ago.
Let’s turn it around. Imagine your outcry and anger if your landlord told you to get out if you can’t afford his rent increase. An increase that is spawned by tax increases demanded by entitled people like yourself.
Left leaning governments rely on the financial illiteracy of people like yourself to get elected.

#212 RentYVR on 05.28.18 at 3:40 pm

@HairHead

“Besides, it’s bad politics. People will feel sorry for overvalued-house-owners, and because most of the voters aspire to be $3m-assessed-homeowners, will turn on the NDP before they have had a chance to cleanse the province of corruption.”

Seriously? No one feels sorry for the overvalued-house owners here amigo. If anything this will probably make the NDP more popular.

#213 Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 3:53 pm

Re: #187 Penny Henny:

“Delorean was built in Northern Ireland.
Maybe you are thinking about Bricklin.”

Thanks for the correction. Yes I meant the St. John New Brunswick produced Bricklin.

#214 Gravy Train on 05.28.18 at 4:00 pm

#76 Shawn Allen on 05.27.18 at 7:28 pm
“Well, money is not a real thing. It’s intangible. It’s just a scorekeeping mechanism to show who has a claim check on the real goods and services. This is especially true of fiat money, which works wonderfully, but is clearly intangible.”

#169 Blacksheep on 05.28.18 at 11:20 am
“100% agree….”

Really? I told myself not to weigh in on this topic, but would I listen? No, more’s the pity! :)

In what sense, you two, is money intangible—or not a real thing? Are you saying it’s incapable of being identified, valued, perceived, or realized by the mind? Shawn, I really don’t think you understand the meaning of the word intangible! And I’m not sure what word you’re looking for!

I grant you that money is not—and should never be confused with—wealth! But that doesn’t mean that money is intangible, or not real. Money comes in many forms—from narrow money, or legal tender (M0) to broad money, or bank reserves, large and long-term deposits (M1 to M3).

I’m holding some of this ‘intangible’, ‘unreal’ stuff in my hands right now as I write this comment. I don’t care to part with money—unless I decide to donate it, invest it, save it, or exchange it for goods and services.

Where’s the flaw in my thinking? Where am I going wrong? :)

#215 Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 4:04 pm

RE: #177 Fake News Again on 05.28.18 at 11:56 am

“1. The Canadian arms of the big 3 are independent wholly owned companies”

Sounds like something Wild Bill would say “but the companies are independent, wholly owned companies” (ie, they are completely controlled by the parent companies).

“2. The harm he is talking about is how the Govt BUYS votes by giving into union demands with TAXPAYER incentives.”

Yeah, like the US government doesn’t provide incentives at the National and State government levels to auto manufacturers.

Any government that had a car plant considering their country/Province/Town as home base is going to give incentives. Governments aren’t stupid. Manufacturing creates a tax base, which is the bread and butter of governing.

Trump’s an idiot. His problem is China, and he attacks Canada and Mexico. Meanwhile, global manufacturing continues to be concentrated in South East Asia, run by the Chinese, and any attempt to stop them from subsidizing their products and dumping them in around the world, just results in another “Proxy country” trade shipment (ie, they just ship from somewhere else, like a Liberian registered commercial freighter).

The guy is a mentally deranged old geezer. No intelligence whatsoever. Like dealing with a moody six month old baby. Pacify, feed, rock to sleep, repeat.

#216 Proof ? on 05.28.18 at 4:27 pm

to #2)! Shawn Allan

“So the population / private sector pays a fair price for the essential services. ”

Rule of thumb in modern western democracies is the populace receives $ 0.30 in tangible services / benefits for every $ 1.00 collected in taxes. The rest is eaten up by administrative expense, waste and gold plated pensions.

Efficient government / fair taxes my azz.

I can see that you have never been in a business in Ontario that has to rely on government services.

Where they charge you $ 140,000 in “hook-up fees” to service 10 building lots (after their original estimate given 3 months before was $ 41,000), with no alternative because they have the monopoly.

Or, where you pay $ 60,000 PER HOUSE for just the development charges – IN ADVANCE , UPFRONT AND IN CASH – then take 2 years to approve you. That’s $ 6 million you have cough up before they even approve your plan.

You have NO idea about what you write. NONE !

#217 Fake News Again on 05.28.18 at 4:27 pm

Ace Goodheart on 05.28.18 at 4:04 pm
RE: #177 Fake News Again on 05.28.18 at 11:56 am

“1. The Canadian arms of the big 3 are independent wholly owned companies”

Sounds like something Wild Bill would say “but the companies are independent, wholly owned companies” (ie, they are completely controlled by the parent companies).

“2. The harm he is talking about is how the Govt BUYS votes by giving into union demands with TAXPAYER incentives.”

Yeah, like the US government doesn’t provide incentives at the National and State government levels to auto manufacturers.

Any government that had a car plant considering their country/Province/Town as home base is going to give incentives. Governments aren’t stupid. Manufacturing creates a tax base, which is the bread and butter of governing.

Trump’s an idiot. His problem is China, and he attacks Canada and Mexico. Meanwhile, global manufacturing continues to be concentrated in South East Asia, run by the Chinese, and any attempt to stop them from subsidizing their products and dumping them in around the world, just results in another “Proxy country” trade shipment (ie, they just ship from somewhere else, like a Liberian registered commercial freighter).

The guy is a mentally deranged old geezer. No intelligence whatsoever. Like dealing with a moody six month old baby. Pacify, feed, rock to sleep, repeat.

_______

Says the Union/Govt Taxpayer TEAT sucker……..

#218 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 4:29 pm

#197 Ubul on 05.28.18 at 1:25 pm
For all the morons debating the “Canadian Auto Industry”.

https://www.cvma.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Website-WP-Important-Facts-Pdf-March-23-2017.pdf
_______

From the cvma website:

“Mission statement

The Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers’ Association develops consensus-based public policy positions and undertakes advocacy to create a better understanding of the importance of a healthy and technologically innovative automotive industry to Canada’s economic well-being and prosperity.”

Translated:

We get together and think up things about our industry that almost no one can really disagree with, and then talk about these things in a certain way to help politicians understand that Canada’s economy is totally doomed without us.

Refinement:

Lobbyists for the Auto Industry

Hence:

We are creating millions of jobs, billions of dollars, and constitute 90% of your GDP at least. Look at our… er, I mean THESE facts. You don’t want to know how many jobs would disappear if we had to leave. Would you like to hear more?

Probably not the best source of info out there.

Reality is the glory days in Ontario’s auto sector are long, LONG gone.

#219 april on 05.28.18 at 4:31 pm

#182 – were you around when the dot.com bubble crashed… fewer and fewer trying to get in on the surging prices and then the crash. All booms end. Sales down, prices follow.

#220 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 4:32 pm

#213 Tater

I know Westrose well and yes, it is a better area. You are still wrong on the area south of Bloor though. To repeat and not to flog a dead horse, the homes that are being built on the bungalows are costing a minimum of 1.3 million when you factor in lot cost and building costs. Households with 100k incomes are not doing this. That should be self evident. The lower income crowd are from years ago and that’s what skewers the average income. All the new homes going up are owned by households with much higher family incomes. I know several whose family incomes are 200k plus. Lastly as Ace Goodheart points out, the homes on 50 foot lots are split in half for two 25 foot lots. This is being done all over the area especially further east and south of the Queensway.

#221 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 4:37 pm

#223 Ace Goodheart

“The guy is a mentally deranged old geezer. No intelligence whatsoever. Like dealing with a moody six month old baby. Pacify, feed, rock to sleep, repeat.”

My Chinese students have told me that the Chinese government has had a field day with Trump. He has been made into the poster boy for why democracy is inferior to the Communist Party’s control over the country. They couldn’t have asked for a better candidate for their propaganda. The general message is, “this is what democracy produces… a buffoon.”

#222 Farming In USA on 05.28.18 at 4:46 pm

#223 Ace Goodheart – Lets not forget the agricultural support in USA. Here is how it works. The elite buy a farm in Indiana for example, but live in NYC, or even in Indiana. They share crop it out to a local farmer who does all the work, and the US government sends a support check to the owner. A judge in Indiana owned a farm, and saw the record for his check – $130,000. In fact the farmer might have to share the profits too with the judge upon the sale of product.

#223 Tater on 05.28.18 at 4:47 pm

#228 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 4:32 pm

—————————————————————–

There’s a handy break down of the incomes around Ambleside, right on the listing page. Less than 5% of the households have an income above 200k. So no, its not a high income neighborhood.

#224 Ubul on 05.28.18 at 5:01 pm

#229 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 4:37 pm

#223 Ace Goodheart

“The guy is a mentally deranged old geezer. No intelligence whatsoever. Like dealing with a moody six month old baby. Pacify, feed, rock to sleep, repeat.”

My Chinese students have told me that the Chinese government has had a field day with Trump. He has been made into the poster boy for why democracy is inferior to the Communist Party’s control over the country. They couldn’t have asked for a better candidate for their propaganda. The general message is, “this is what democracy produces… a buffoon.”

Yet your Chinese students somehow don’t chose to live where the superior Communist party rules them.

#225 Ubul on 05.28.18 at 5:04 pm

#226 IHCTD9 on 05.28.18 at 4:29 pm

#197 Ubul on 05.28.18 at 1:25 pm
For all the morons debating the “Canadian Auto Industry”.

https://www.cvma.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Website-WP-Important-Facts-Pdf-March-23-2017.pdf
_______

Probably not the best source of info out there.

You forgot to link your better source.

#226 Joe Bloggs on 05.28.18 at 5:23 pm

#168 Conn Smythe
“You sound like a total moron and I suspect you are.”
– LOL!!! What a nerve. Better tell us another lecture on advantages of a monopoly over free enterprise, mr. Conny – the closet commie.

#227 Conn Smythe on 05.28.18 at 9:32 pm

#232 Ubul

“Yet your Chinese students somehow don’t chose to live where the superior Communist party rules them.”

Another one who draws a wrong conclusion. Where did I say the students agree with their government’s propaganda? They don’t. They see right through it though I suspect millions of peasants may not…

#228 Al on 05.28.18 at 11:19 pm

” I walk at a 10 minute kilometre pace so I was off by 5 minutes. ”

Lol no you don’t, a comfortable walking speed is 5-6km/hr. Are you racewalking while walking to the bus stop?

#229 Conn Smythe on 05.29.18 at 7:44 am

#236 AI

“Lol no you don’t, a comfortable walking speed is 5-6km/hr. Are you racewalking while walking to the bus stop?”

I see you are mathematically challenged AI or lack thereof… What is 6km an hour cowboy? A 10 minute kilometre pace. I used to run 4 minute kilometres so 10 is no big deal.

#230 Conn Smythe on 05.29.18 at 7:50 am

#231 Tater

The neighbourhood has become unaffordable and will continue to be unaffordable for many going forward. 100k households are not building homes for a minimum of 1.3 million which is the lot and building cost at minimum. The area will continue to throw done 60 year bungalows and up will go the new homes. It’s off the subway line and that is what gives it value. The old axiom of real estate as you know it location, location, location. Townhomes starting at 900k. Starting…. Your comment which started this dialogue was that it was not a good area. Totally wrong.