Measuring up

Yup, it sucks being old. Apparently it also sucks being 30something. So many pressures. Big anxiety. Kids. Houses. Careers. Uncertainty. What is the correct path?

Below are three notes from three couples struggling with decisions. These letters are real, received in the last few days, and a wee sample of the Dear Garth mail that forever flows. So step into the confessional with me. Let’s see what we can say to these tortured, self-absorbed kids.

“Hi Garth.  My husband and I read your blog religiously.  We need to run a decision by you.  We are 33 years old with two children.  We don’t plan on having any more children.  We are currently living in a semi in Hamilton and would love to be back in Burlington where we grew up and where our family is.   We currently owe 344,000 on our mortgage and 9,000 on our car.  That is all the debt we have.  No savings. According to our realtor we could list our house for 620,000-630,000.  However, 276,000 minus 50,000 (moving costs) = 226,000 down on a house.  Do you think it’s ridiculous and/or foolish to buy a house in Burlington for 700,000-800,000?  My husband makes 88,000 a year and I make 92,000 a year.  Do you think it’s smarter to wait and see what the housing market does?  Do you think it’s going to go down?  Any advice would be helpful.  Brenda.”

Not a lot of detail there, B, about where you work, pensions or why you make almost $180,000 a year and have no savings (it’s all in the house, right?) – but a few things need to be said. First, realtors claim lots of crazy things to get listings and the suggested list price might be optimistic. If you sell for $600,000, pay 5% commish, break the mortgage, and finance a move, you’ll have about $200,000 (at best). Buying a new place for $750,000, plus land transfer tax, will result in a mortgage of roughly $570,000.

So what do you gain for $230,000 more in debt, probably at a higher rate? Unlikely it will be a better house, given the premium in Burlington over Hamilton. So it’s mostly emotional (people are like migrating salmon) and family-based. Fine. Now get over it.

Burlington is 15 kilometers from Hamilton and it takes 12 minutes to drive there. You’re willing to plunge your family into a deep borrowing hole just to be a few minutes closer to mom? Absurd. Your responsibility as parents is to reduce debt, start saving money, open an RESP and tax-free accounts and grow up. Not necessarily in that order. Next?

“I’m reaching out for your opinion on a debate that has been tyrannizing many a Sunday morning in our living room,” says Dave.

“My girlfriend and I are both in our mid-30s (the moisture is partly evaporated), moved from Vancouver to Toronto and have been paying $3000 a month to rent a modest 2BR townhome. We’ve been itching to get out of the city since we got here and find us a nice detached SFH in the burbs. We are looking at an area where we have friends and family, at houses in the 600-800k range, and have noticed that prices have dropped up to 100k since this time last year. Still high in my estimation, but better than when we got here.

“My girlfriend still owns her condo in Van which a realtor friend out there priced around 800k. She currently rents it out for $2750 a month, and costs her < $1000 a month (the mortgage is almost gone so at this point it is mostly strata fees and property taxes). So she nets $1750, less taxes (which I understand are only going to go up) and funnels the remainder into savings.

“The dilemma that’s been cooling our coffee for the past 2 years has been whether to 1) sell the condo there and buy a house here, or 2) keep the condo there and rent a house here, at least until the market quiets down. I should mention that we also have sufficient down-payment money for option 3) keep the condo AND buy a house here.

“Now I figure the first option would essentially keep all our wealth locked up in a single, volatile asset, but have the net effect of simply relocating that single, volatile asset from Van to TO (where we could live in that single, volatile asset). On the plus side we would get to be proud homeowners – she would finally get to participate in the conversations about dream renos when we go out to dinner with our friends; I could finally go to Canadian Tire and buy a shovel like a real man. The second option is the status quo, which gets us some monthly income to help cover the rent here, and lets us both save more for when we finally do decide to buy. But it means we have to delay the orgasmic gratification of edificial proprietorship even longer – and the foreplay has been going on quite a while now. The last option is her preference, but I worry that would be pushing it and would leave everything we have uncomfortably stuffed into RE.

“(I realize I am talking about what is clearly my girlfriend’s wealth as if it is my own, so I just want to say in all honesty that we do plan on getting married soon.)

“Anyways, if I’ve learned correctly from your blog, I suspect your advice will be option 4) sell the condo, max out our TFSAs and RRSPs, park the remainder in a balanced portfolio, and keep on renting. The gf is laser-locked on the idea of owning, so I’m curious of your thoughts on buying vs. renting, or more appropriately when to buy, for a couple who can actually afford either, and who are looking for a long-term family home rather than a Rocky-and-Pitbull-endorsed get-rich-quick scheme?”

So why do you bother writing me when you already know what to do? Ah yes… her laser-lock on a house. Got it.

Practically, you’re living in an affordable place while the GF earns a GIC-type return on her Vancouver condo (the net on $800,000 in equity is 2.6%, fully taxable). So, obviously, you’d be better off financially dumping the Yaletown property (YVR condos have probably peaked) and investing the money for a few years. That would give time for (a) 905 houses to shed more of their value, (b) your liquid assets to touch $1 million and (c) you to grow a spine and marry her.

There. Just what you expected. Next?

“I have a question related to career trajectory and future plans,” whines Devon. “We could use the advice!”

“My wife will soon sign on permanently with her job for a salary of $110,000. Currently, I make $53,000, plus $17,000 a year renting out our basement. We will probably save most of my wife’s salary as we have a low overhead. I’m currently on EI as we just had a baby and that plus the rent covers all of our living expenses.

“I have been accepted into teachers college in the fall but, we have been talking about how nice it would be for me to stay home with the kids. My current work has a part-time option, for roughly $26,000 a year working 3-7 pm just down the street from our home.

“We were crunching numbers to see what we could afford, we put our total projected income (post teachers college) into a tax calculator and saw that the more we make the greater the taxes paid. This lowers the incentive to put in the extra hours/schooling/years for the larger paycheck when we have an opportunity to stay local, raise our family, and reach our savings goals if we continue to keep costs down.

“We max out our RRSPs every year and we are working on maxing out both of our TFSAs by the end of 2019. We have a mortgage that is around $210,000 and the basement apartment pays for the mortgages, bills, and taxes. Our goal is to become semi-retired in our early 40s. We would like to have over a million in investments by then. I’m 30 and she’s 31.”

Let’s summarize: you’re 30 and crave retirement in ten years. You think a million dollars at 40 will last you for four decades and educate your children. You’re considering getting more education, but see no point in employment when you have to pay additional tax. You’re on pogey, parenting. You’d possibly consider working evenings, close to home.

It might be too much to expect ambition, Devon, but common sense is a basic requirement of getting married, producing children and asking your spouse to be the beast of burden. Stopping work in your forties? To do what? And a million at that age, without additional income, is wholly insufficient. You’ll discover that when you apply at Wal-Mart on your 63rd birthday.

Waste your time if you want. Don’t waste ours.

Okay, blog, please tell me this is not how most 30-year-olds think.

263 comments ↓

#1 NorthShore Renter on 03.14.18 at 6:01 pm

First

Congratulations. Now go away. – Garth

#2 Frank on 03.14.18 at 6:04 pm

$50,000 in moving costs?

Put some elbow grease in and pack your own stuff or throw crap away.

I assume that includes LTT plus mortgage break fee. Obviously. – Garth

#3 NoOneOfConsequence on 03.14.18 at 6:13 pm

I don’t get why so many people want to ‘retire’ in their 40’s.
There’s like some kind of mystique to retirement.
Everyone I know who has retired early has ended with some kind of health issue…stroke, heart attack, brain aneurysm, alcohol problems…whatever.
I prefer the idea of having enough money invested to fund my final ‘working years’…where I can work at what interests me rather than at what sustains me.

#4 Eric on 03.14.18 at 6:13 pm

It’s quite amazing to see how people have the answers but refuse to acknowledge and/or commit to them…

#5 Tim on 03.14.18 at 6:13 pm

Thanks for sharing the emails. Great blog.

Just one correction…current mid-30s are early-stage GenY, not late-stage GenX.

#6 Blessed_Canadian_Millennial on 03.14.18 at 6:18 pm

Happy Birthday, Mr. T!

#7 Zapstrap on 03.14.18 at 6:18 pm

Lordy … I bet they all voted for Trudeau …

#8 Mike on 03.14.18 at 6:20 pm

Folks, get used to new normal in GVR. $1M+ for a decent SF house even in Slurrey.

Noting is crashing or soft landing in GVR – bring on B20 or whatever….

#9 Paul on 03.14.18 at 6:21 pm

I am 33 with $260,000 in investments. Maxed TFSA and RRSP with a growing non-registered account . Finishing up a graduate degree I’ve been picking away at while working full time. I also drive an older care but maintain it very well.

The dating scene is a jungle out there. Very selfish people around my age that look at what you have rather than who you are. Baby fever is real as well.

I never thought adulthood would be so similar to highschool just with more money involved.

But I’m still young and healthy so who knows what tomorrow will bring.

#10 Nick on 03.14.18 at 6:22 pm

Savage, Garth. Love it.

Every 30 year old isn’t like that. Wife and I are renting right now, but we have 150k RRSPs, 250k liquid cash/investments.

Biding our time in the GTA. Worst case scenario if prices never come down we juat rent something bigger.

#11 Tim on 03.14.18 at 6:22 pm

Hey Garth, why not crunch some actual numbers rather than saying the last guy has no common sense. They already live off 70k a year and they still have a mortgage. If you pay off the mortgage and have a million bucks in bank, as you always remind us, a balanced portfolio long term makes about a 8% return. That is 80k with a few huge differences. Since it is investment income it will be pretty much tax free. Plus no mortgage. Plus they will both probably make 20k to 30k in CPP + OAS at some point. If you had bothered to actually crunch some numbers rather than judging him for wanting to exit the rat race early you would see he is ahead of the game. The hard part is saving that million…

#12 Debtslavecreator on 03.14.18 at 6:24 pm

Unfortunately Garth this is how many of them do think
I can’t understand it
Just had a brother team with a perfectly fine home in the eastern gta and for no valid reason they suddenly decided to move to a new home 20 minutes away and increase their mortgage by 150 k and also spend 40 k to move doors between LTT, commission on sale and legals
It defies logic
All for a primary residence
Wow
At this rate we are in the early stages of a devastating recession and a year from now our loonie is likely to be under .70c and homes in many hoods down an additional 15-20% from where they are today

#13 active on 03.14.18 at 6:26 pm

Seriously? Dave equates owning a shovel with being a ‘real’ man? Wow! Dream reno’s at dinner parties? I cant help but think this housing market must crash ASAP so people can get a swift kick in the ass. Renting out a $800K condo almost mortgage free – why the hell wouldn’t you want that $800K in a balanced portfolio? like Duh!

I’m 33, live in Vancouver, liquid assets of $640K and wouldn’t even think about buying real estate. Can I be featured on this blog one day?

#14 jim on 03.14.18 at 6:26 pm

“she nets $1750, less taxes (which I understand are only going to go up) and funnels the remainder into savings.”

These people are financially illiterate.

Pump 800k into a balanced portfolio and you’ll get at least 6% coming back per year. Perhaps better. (My non-self-managed accounts at Vanguard have been returning 8% average over 6 years).

So instead of opening up a Questrade or Interactive Brokers account, they are getting a measley $1750 per month on an 800k asset. Plus dealing with tenants, repairs, strata councils, etc.

Instead, they could be getting $48,000 per year in investment returns, no dealing with plugged toilets or the like.

It is very likely that they were implicitly depending on price accumulation to justify the low returns.

Hint: my savings account at a US credit union is paying 1.9%, very close to their rate of return.

#15 Ted G on 03.14.18 at 6:26 pm

Happy Bday,

I hope it brings an even crankier, ranchy and raw Garth!

Cheers ted

#16 Dimitri on 03.14.18 at 6:28 pm

Garth, do you not advise Millennial Revolution folks? They rave about being able to retire on a million.

Do you subscribe to the 4% safe withdrawal rate from Trinity study for 30 year retirements? If Devon’s expenses are below 40k he might be ok.

#17 Measuring on 03.14.18 at 6:29 pm

While we are talking about measuring…

Here are some fresh measurements:
https://housepriceindex.ca/2018/03/february2018/

#18 TrailerSailor on 03.14.18 at 6:29 pm

Well yeah, we all want to get richer quicker and try to spend our 40s – 50s – 60s doing something we enjoy, obviously. Who doesn’t?

For most of us (i.e. anyone I’ve talked to) that ‘something we enjoy’ generally involves working. Inflation hurts. 2 million cuts it for our parent’s retirement but it won’t cut it for ours. Then again there’s guys like Mr. Money Mustache out there (go check him out) preaching the gospel of “need less, save more” and I’ve got to say that’s pretty appealing.

Speaking from the lofty perspective of 1/2 of an average-age-33 couple here with a couple hundred thousand total saved, no house or other assets, low joint income that will hopefully pick up a lot (but nowhere near 180k), and looking to start a family now because biological clocks run out….these people all have a pretty good situation, should suck it up, should realize they’re trading ‘early retirement’ for ‘more consumption now’ and be OK with that if they wanna

This blog has a way of making an induhvidual feel poor a f.

#19 Niagara Region on 03.14.18 at 6:32 pm

Unlike other regions near Toronto, real estate prices do not yet seem to be decreasing in the Niagara region. I assume prices here will eventually echo the Toronto market and decline, but I wondered if anyone had any insights. For example, might it be the case that real estate in the Niagara Region won’t decline as much as property north of Toronto? (Locals make this claim because a GO-Train to Toronto is supposed to appear here in about 3 years, although I have my doubts about such a project materializing.) Does anyone have any idea when prices on detached homes will significantly drop in the Niagara Region? My guess is that I need to patiently wait another year. I started looking for my first home (seeking a detached character home) in 2014-2015 but jumped out of the market when I saw prices spike. Thank you from a cautious professional in her early 50s.

#20 under the radar on 03.14.18 at 6:32 pm

Stay in Hamilton, get out of debt, build savings . Stop wanting more .

Retire in their 40s with a million ? lol, , raise a family? 25k x 40 years left to live = poverty .

#21 Damifino on 03.14.18 at 6:33 pm

#3 NoOneOfConsequence

I don’t get why so many people want to ‘retire’ in their 40’s
——————————

You must have a limited idea of what ‘retirement’ means, or at least, could mean.

It doesn’t necessarily entail sitting in a chair watching daytime TV and waiting for a stroke. Having enough wealth to live independently opens a world of creative possibilities for those at any stage of life.

But I suppose you’re right. It may not be a healthy state for people with a profound poverty of imagination.

#22 Lisa on 03.14.18 at 6:34 pm

Retire at 40?
I am 38 and back in school so I can make MORE money!
Why settle?
And why retire early? I’d be bored. I think it would age you too if you stopped being productive so early on.

#3 PersonOfNoConcequence:

I agree with you!

#23 Mountain Dew on 03.14.18 at 6:35 pm

Out here on the Left Coast, real estate is not quite folding, not yet. There are still multiple offers on some properties. However, my agent tells me that here in Richmond, the market above the $2M has gone cold. All the action is below $2M. Buyers prefer homes that are not new (obviously, with all the extra taxes).

#24 Travis Bickle on 03.14.18 at 6:40 pm

I have to comment on previous post where a guy named “James” commented on Serbian genius Nikola Tesla being “certified loser” in a business sense…

I’m not gonna go ad-hominem on poor James, despite his ignorance more than warrants it, but instead will offer a fact about Tesla and his value system:

In the late 19th century, as the inventor of AC, Tesla was involved in a PR war with Edison who was advocating inferior DC. Naturally (look at our lives together) Tesla won that war and was approached by George Westinghouse and licensed his patents for $60,000 (about $1.5 Million in today’s money), plus 150 shares of stock and a $2.50 royalty per horsepower generated by his AC motor.
As AC power slowly became more widely adopted across the country, Westinghouse happily paid Tesla hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties each year. In just two years, on his 34th birthday, Tesla had become a full fledged millionaire.
About 17 years later, Westinghouse got in some financial troubles, was on the verge of bankruptcy and asked Tesla to lower or temporarily rescind his royalties in order to allow the Westinghouse’s company to survive.
So Nikola could have given Westinghouse say a five year reprieve from the royalty payments to allow him to get back on its feet… Over the next decade, AC wiped out DC and became the standard electrical system across the world. By $2.50 going to him per each horsepower generated, Tesla would have become the richest person on the planet and the first person with a $1 billion net worth.
However… what did Nikola do when George Westinghouse came to his office and asked for a reprieve???
He tore up the original contract on the spot and relinquished his royalties forever!!! Tesla was grateful to Westinghouse for believing in him when no one else would. He said he valued George’s friendship more than any amount of money!!!

That is Nikola Tesla for you. And that’s why folks like Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Elon Musk, Smoking Man and myself adore the guy…

Folks like “James” have a different priorities… not that anything is wrong with that (as Seinfeld would say ;)

#25 For those about to flop... on 03.14.18 at 6:41 pm

Thor Turner strikes another 3 blows for the benefit of peoplekind…

M43BC

#26 Snap crackle pop on 03.14.18 at 6:42 pm

I’m 36 (F) and I can tell you this is a representative sample of my cohort’s mindset.

Between me and my husband, we gross around 250k a year (can be higher some years with bonuses), have 650k in savings (in your recommended portfolio including 20% in USD ETFs), one DB benefit pension and owe $130k on a $600k house. We are currently saving $4k a month after our DB and DC pension contributions. I feel like we largely have our act together.

My peers at work spend every penny they make, take substantial vacations twice a year, complain about how much their mortgage and daycare costs and then claim to be broke all the time.

These people make decent money but don’t have a clue.

It’s painful to watch and listen to. I just smile and nod. They cannot be saved.

#27 Alex on 03.14.18 at 6:45 pm

lolol at guy number 3.
I am 41, net worth of 3.4M with 1.9M liquid portfolio which I fully manage myself… and no way near retirement. First goal is 5M then 10M .. then I’ll stay invested and live off dividends… 1M is nothing, sweet nothing !

#28 dakkie on 03.14.18 at 6:47 pm

The 2018 Canadian Budget Contains More Bond Buybacks! – Desperate To Avoid Bankruptcy

http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-2018-canadian-budget-contains-more-bond-buybacks-desperate-to-avoid-bankruptcy/

#29 For those about to flop... on 03.14.18 at 6:49 pm

Was gonna do a joke about Garth blowing all those candles out.

Might have to wait until later tonight when all the kiddies have gone to bed…

M43BC
M690N

#30 broader mind on 03.14.18 at 6:49 pm

couple #2 Dave. To her to sell the condo and buy a very expensive house with every penny she has. Live with her for some time and decide between 500k or marriage. That way you will know your truly committed or a least should be committed.

#31 Guy in Calgary on 03.14.18 at 6:50 pm

My expectations are reasonable. Given that retiring at 40 is an outlandish expectation reserved for the most delusional hoard of entitled millenials, I have set my goal to retire at 41. Currently 29 this is a no brainer! I have a quite reasonable income expectation of 70k/year after tax. This will fund mine and my wife’s travelling around the world and put the 2 dogs through University. The one wants to be a doctor and the other a lawyer. We plan to pay for their education with money saved in our HISA. I found one that makes 1%, it was a no brainer really. I am confident Garth recommended this at one point. Thank you Garth and happy birthday!

I figure $500k would be more then enough to accomplish this based on the Pythagorean theorem math which they taught me in school every year. I knew it would come in handy one day which is why they drilled it in our brains.

#32 Sue on 03.14.18 at 6:51 pm

Happy Birthday Garth
Lets give Garth the gift of not having to censor us? Nice gift i would say. That includes you smoking man. Be nice!!

#33 Your_worst_nightmare on 03.14.18 at 6:52 pm

As a 30 something millennial residing in Vancouver, I hear these stories too often. Sometimes I feel like I’m being impractical renting, choosing to wait to find a decent partner and trying to find ways to increase my salary. I have managed to triple my salary from age 25 to 30 and it’s expected to go higher in the next ten years. Guess I’ll have to compare notes in ten years to see what happens ;)

#34 Grey Dog on 03.14.18 at 6:52 pm

1. Continue reading Garth everyday, be at peace with what you have to date.
2. Hope your girlfriend reads this…get a prenup, this guy is a gold digging dreamer/schemer.
3. I know of not ONE teacher who graduated with their BEd who got a full time teaching gig without putting in a minimum of five years of supply teaching. Good thing you are enjoying raising your family.

Garth love your blog…if it is your Birthday, May it be a Happy One.

#35 Emily on 03.14.18 at 6:53 pm

GARTH!!
I’m 31. We’ll have our house pd off in 4 years. We are setting aside 15% of income in a balanced way of which you would approve. That percentage will increase when the house is paid off.
I too have an incredibly complicated situation.
Should we continue down our current path or remortgage our house to invest in Disney figurines?? My 5 year thinks they are so cute!!
I used a tax calculator and it told me Disney figurines aren’t a solid investment plan?! Something I absolutely needed a tax calculator to tell me.
Someone help!!

#36 Nonplused on 03.14.18 at 6:53 pm

Experts say the oldest GenXers are now 34. – Garth

Did you mean Gen Y? I thought I was Gen X and I’m almost 50.

#37 Tim Free Since 03 on 03.14.18 at 6:54 pm

I like #3’s take on life. Taking pogey, wife supporting him, if he works he has to pay taxes (heaven forbid) and going to “semi-retire” in his early 40’s. This pathetic soul is already semi-retired. His plan is to not pay tax, live off of those who do, and whine about how he never had a break. He will find out in 40 years that life lived as a parasite is not that rewarding. By then it will be too late.

#38 Vancouver Brit on 03.14.18 at 6:59 pm

Curious why you consider $1 million insufficient for living off of in your 40’s? That’s $40,000 – $50,000 per year that they can withdraw without ever depleting their asset base. Admittedly, $40,000 – $50,000 may not be enough for someone with a child, especially 10 years down the road, but it’s doable if they moved out of the city and put in some effort to reduce spending. At the very least one of them could retire or they could both go part-time with that size portfolio (they only said “semi retire” anyway, not full retirement).

Also, why can’t a child pay for their own education? Why are parents expected to cough up? Many people don’t get help from their parents and manage okay.

#39 crowdedelevatorfartz on 03.14.18 at 7:03 pm

My God.
These people are “long time readers” here and these are the questions?
Buying , buying or buying?

Have they learned nothing?

People, the market is DROPPING.
The Canadian Govt is deficit spending like a drunken sailor on leave.
Interest rates will rise.

Why would you buy in a FALLING MARKET?

Sell, invest, rent.
Wait, watch, eventually buy……but not now.

#40 Smoking Man Imposter on 03.14.18 at 7:03 pm

Look at those salaries! Likely Trudeau government workers, feminist teachers and SJWs in education. No one in Toronto or Vancouver is lucky to earn those high salaries in the private sector.

#41 Totalchaos on 03.14.18 at 7:03 pm

Devon – stay home with the kids until they are school aged , then go back to school. It doesn’t always make financial sense to work when the kids are youngnbut taxes are a part of life, so get over it. Besides, with a couple of kids needing health care and schooling, I’m sure you will get out at least what you put in.

#42 Karma on 03.14.18 at 7:06 pm

“people are like migrating salmon” – Garth

YES! I have used that analogy before! So true.

#43 crowdedelevatorfartz on 03.14.18 at 7:06 pm

Garths Birthday today?
Is that the Apocalypse “Ides of March” we were warned about by our resident doomsayer?

Well, either way.
Happy Birthday you grumpy old codger.
You deserve many many more for the free advise you give.

#44 G, Oakville on 03.14.18 at 7:07 pm

Hi Garth,

Some may find these of interest:

new technologies to slash the cost of geothermal energy. https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z03xkwFbw4bles/is-google-going-underground-with-hypersonic-tech

What is the best diet for humans? | Eran Segal | TEDxRuppin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z03xkwFbw4

And Happy B-D Garth!

#45 M on 03.14.18 at 7:08 pm

“Okay, blog, please tell me this is not how most 30-year-olds think”…

Actually…yes Garth. And these three despite being
misdirected, are – at least – focused on something.
Most don’t even have that. But somehow ALL want houses in Toronto while they make around 50K in “zipped-up” multiple jobs and spending the little they have on downtown renting. Because you see… there is where the action is :)

Go figure.

PS Also…something I don’t get… why remain 20-40K in debt for a degree in education/psychology/international relations/health sciences , that give no competitive edge in nothing that pays a buck…instead of getting an engineering degree for the same money ? If no job…at least – given some good grades – an engineering degree will push someone in medical school no contest. I’m not saying that engineering rocks …but the softies are guaranteed losers. I don’t get it. Do these kids have parents to kick their asses and force advice ? (yup…brute force does have its niche in education, no matter what the flakes are saying)

#46 Bytor the Snow Dog on 03.14.18 at 7:08 pm

Tag fail.

#47 Classical Liberal Millennial on 03.14.18 at 7:09 pm

This is nit picky but wouldn’t it be the youngest Gen Xers, not the oldest, that are around 34?
I’m 31 and thought I was one of the older Millennials.

#48 Whatcha Minnie on 03.14.18 at 7:10 pm

Ran 6 miles for the first time. Usually do 5, but today I had a friend run a marathon so I figured I could squeeze out one more mile. This time last year, it was difficult for me to run one mile, so now I’m laying down on my bed basking in a runners high. Probably celebrate later with some ice cream :)

#49 Bytor the Snow Dog on 03.14.18 at 7:11 pm

PS- When Brenda sez “we” want to move closer to where we grew up she really means “she” wants to do that. She’s looking for ammo to use against hubby.

See: Appeal to Authority.

#50 just a dude on 03.14.18 at 7:11 pm

Ouch! Some raw responses there, Garth. In fine form this evening, as always. I like ’em, especially the last one.

I swear I feel like an alien when you share some of these letters. I can’t relate but then again, I remember being led by the nose by family & friends when in my 30’s so maybe I was the same back then. A move to another province solved that problem in my early 40’s. I would never want to relive my 30’s and be beholden to crazy societal & family pressures again. That move plus entering my sixth decade (yikes!) have thankfully toughened me up.

Please consider sharing some of the more encouraging letters you (I hope) receive like that young man (in his mid 20’s?) from a few weeks back; was it David? Totally responsible couple with two young kids who were (gasp!) renting and living an excellent family life together. That was great.

#51 Jungle on 03.14.18 at 7:14 pm

1st one- sell the semi in hamilton (they are all time high) and buy detach in burlington. (they have corrected somewhat, possibly 5-6 figure) Try to, best you can, by the cheapest detach you can get so you are not increasing debt and payment too much. Moving close to parents and family can be a huge help when you have kids. Daycare, pick ups, sick, school bus cancel, etc Having the help is HUGE and being close to family helps BIGTIME

#2 sell the condo in vancouver right now before the market explodes with NDP policy, propose to your GF and tell her you are going to get serious, get married in 2 years and buy a house here in T.o this spring. The market might be picking back up with detach and talk of foreign buyers tax being taken off.

3 take the job as a teacher ..are you kidding me? define pension, summers off, almost 100k year is dream job.
Yes you will pay tax, but in 5-10 years like Garth said, what are you going to do with the kids are older or going to school ? Twiddle your thumbs all day? Be blessed you have opportunity to make great money and enjoy life. Save first, pay your debt, and Go on many vacations and spend time with family as much as possible.

Amen!

#52 Stone on 03.14.18 at 7:15 pm

#3 NoOneOfConsequence on 03.14.18 at 6:13 pm
I don’t get why so many people want to ‘retire’ in their 40’s.
There’s like some kind of mystique to retirement.
Everyone I know who has retired early has ended with some kind of health issue…stroke, heart attack, brain aneurysm, alcohol problems…whatever.
I prefer the idea of having enough money invested to fund my final ‘working years’…where I can work at what interests me rather than at what sustains me.

—————

There’s more to life than working. Our purpose is not to live to work but to work to live (well).

“Everyone I know who has retired early has ended with some kind of health issue…stroke, heart attack, brain aneurysm, alcohol problems…whatever.”

I suggest you get out there and meet new people. Healthier ones. Everyone I know who has retired early is happy and full of hobbies. They all wish they had more hours in a day to do all the fun things they want to do.

“I prefer the idea of having enough money invested to fund my final ‘working years’…where I can work at what interests me rather than at what sustains me.”

That sounds so sad. Doing work that interests you is good but the rest of your comment makes me sad for you. Have fun, smell the roses, make new friends and experience exciting adventures. There really is more to life than just work and stashing your cash for just before you croak.

I think too many people have forgotten why we actually work. It is not a life goal.

#53 jim on 03.14.18 at 7:20 pm

” You think a million dollars at 40 will last you for four decades and educate your children”

well, it can. but not in north america, western europe, dubai, hong kong, etc.

If you move to peru, ecuador, ukraine (etc) you can live quite well off the interest.

In Canada, Garth is right that you’ll be finagling shopping carts at Walmart when you are 63.

#54 Stone on 03.14.18 at 7:21 pm

#14 Lisa on 03.14.18 at 6:34 pm
Retire at 40?
I am 38 and back in school so I can make MORE money!
Why settle?
And why retire early? I’d be bored. I think it would age you too if you stopped being productive so early on.

#3 PersonOfNoConcequence:

I agree with you!

———

Only boring people are bored. Sad, but true. Damifino #13 said it right.

#55 Flat Earth Society on 03.14.18 at 7:22 pm

Today’s 3 letters provide additional proof that humans are not rational creatures, we are rationalizing creatures.

We do not think through the facts and decide what’s best. We feel through our emotions and decide what we want. The rationality we possess is merely a tool to be used to get what we want. Occasionally it is also used to justify our decisions to others but it would be more honest to just say “it’s what I wanted”.

A wife who has an affair will usually tell her friends there was something wrong with her husband, along the lines of “he doesn’t appreciate me enough”, while ignoring the fact that there is certainly something wrong with her “lover” because he is willing to “sleep” with a married woman. This is not thinking things through, it is rationalizing. The examples I could make are endless. Everything from the houses and cars we buy that we can’t afford to the religions we believe to the people we sleep with. It all comes from a part of the brain that is distinctly non-rational.

So why do we have rationality at all? Almost everyone can do it with varying degrees of success based on IQ. Well, it’s a helpful tool to get what you’ve already decided you want. A non-rational creature like an alligator has to wait around in the swamp until a deer shows up and then strike at it. We can use our reasoning abilities to hunt the deer using weapons, wherever it is and whatever it is doing. But note that it is hunger that come first, not reason.

So to answer your question Garth, this is not how most 30-year-olds think. It’s how we all think.

Just go on YouTube and search “Flat Earth”. Many videos will result and we are only responsible for a few of them. (We were trolling but holy-heck did it catch on, we don’t even have to create content anymore.) Even more impressive is the amount of time people have put in to countering the claim. As if proof was needed, or someone that fell for the flat earth could be susceptible to facts and reason. Originally designed as a social experiment, it has taken on a life of it’s own. Unfortunately, in retrospect, I think our experiment would not have passed an “ethics” test and we would all be expelled from our professions, but in our defense we really did not foresee the damage we were going to do. Again in retrospect we should have, we had creationists and alien abductions as material that we were well aware of and how those experiments went. However we have not yet been able to figure out how to apologize or who to apologize to without just making it worse.

Anyway, probably nobody cares about our grief for having created the Flat Earth Society and underestimating it’s potential success, if you want to call it that. My point is that our experiments just added further proof that not very many people out there of any age are doing any thinking at all. Should have know that already when Porsche started making an SUV.

#56 Garth fan on 03.14.18 at 7:25 pm

“Let’s summarize: you’re 30 and crave retirement in ten years. You think a million dollars at 40 will last you for four decades and educate your children… Stopping work in your forties? To do what? And a million at that age, without additional income, is wholly insufficient. You’ll discover that when you apply at Wal-Mart on your 63rd birthday.”
===

So that Millennial Revolution couple quit in their 30s with $1M in the bank… Did you tell them the same advice??

They have no kids, no house and live on air. ‘Retiring’ was their idea. – Garth

#57 Anne on 03.14.18 at 7:25 pm

I don’t know what to think sometimes. It all comes down to perspective.

Recently I was introduced to 2 families that have children that are battling cancer…one for the third time and he’s only 11! The other is fighting what is normally a terminal brain cancer. Sometimes it take a moment to get outside of ourselves to feel another’s journey that creates perspective.

I’m thankful everyday for the mundane. Be thankful that “to buy or not to buy” is the hardest decision you have to make and go help someone!

Not sure it is my place to post this rant but sometimes the whining does become a little much ;-(

https://www.facebook.com/Nevansjourney https://www.facebook.com/kirascancerupdates/

#58 ALFRED E. NEUMAN on 03.14.18 at 7:30 pm

I just loved your comments to the third-story folks, Garth:

“You’ll discover that when you apply at Wal-Mart on your 63rd birthday. Waste your time if you want. Don’t waste ours.”

I almost peed in my Depends.

BUT I AM worried .. I gotta say,

’cause I’ve noticed that with every birthday you have, you seem to get grouchier and less tolerant of stupidity.

What’s with that Mr. G? You’d think by now you’d be totally numb to it all.

Maybe though, its a good thing .. as it reflects your joie de vivre, zest and youthful vigour.

#59 OMG on 03.14.18 at 7:40 pm

Is this how 30 year-olds think? Don’t ask me. I just left school at 15, worked 48hours a week $5 a week and worked ’til I was 65. Couldn’t take the shift work and 12 hr shifts any longer. We had to put 25% down to qualify for a mortgage and we were lucky that we locked into a mortgage at only 8.75% while the rates went up to 19%. Of course, my wife earned a lot less than me, besides her income never counted towards qualifying for a mortgage. She could not get a credit card either without my permission. Didn’t qualify to join the company pension plan until I was 30 and had been there for 10 years, but at least it’s a pension. Company’s bankrupt now so it could be reduced, so pension is far from gold plated. Even when the kids were small, we still managed to save something. We’re old now and pretty healthy so we manage. Wouldn’t be able to if one of us had to go into long term care. Anything that isn’t too smelly is about $5K a month – that’s 60K a year for one alone, which is more that we have a year.
Retire at 40?
Hah, hah, hah, hah, hah,hah!

#60 AGuyInVancouver on 03.14.18 at 7:42 pm

#23 Mountain Dew on 03.14.18 at 6:35 pm
Out here on the Left Coast, real estate is not quite folding, not yet. There are still multiple offers on some properties. However, my agent tells me that here in Richmond, the market above the $2M has gone cold. All the action is below $2M. Buyers prefer homes that are not new (obviously, with all the extra taxes).
_ _ _
It’s ridiculous that a +$2 million market even exists in Richmond. Oh, wait a minute…

Interesting to see the inherent sexism come out over Devon making less money than his wife and being the primary caregiver to their child. It’s 2018 people!

#61 Trumpocalypse2018 on 03.14.18 at 7:42 pm

1 Day to the Ides of March !

Economic collapse is beginning!!!

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/14/news/companies/toys-r-us-closing-stores/index.html

War in the middle east very soon!!!

Trump White House about to implode!!!

Global horrors will accelerate dramatically after tomorrow.

Hug your children and your dogs.

PREPARE

#62 broader mind on 03.14.18 at 7:45 pm

A very Happy Birthday to you Sir Garth. May the year ahead provide many dividends. I am a fan,thank you for all your efforts.

#63 Flat Earth Society on 03.14.18 at 7:47 pm

#52 Stone

If personality “types” are to be believed, I think your conversation with #3 NoOne is pointless because neither of you will be able to conceptualize the other’s point of view.

I would deem your personality style to be “Leisurely”, where as #3 is probably “Conscientious”. I’m not saying one is better than the other, evolution created them both, but in my estimation they just don’t mix and can never understand each other or live together without resenting each other.

The conscientious type puts every dirty dish in the dishwasher right away, the leisurely type puts the dirty dishes in the sink. They can’t get along and they can’t understand each other. But they both get by.

#64 Angela on 03.14.18 at 7:48 pm

Do the people writing these letters even read this blog? The major tenets of Greater Fool-ism is 1. Real estate os okay as long as it does not make up the majority of your net worth (see ruleof 90) 2. Cash is king. 3. Staying home with your kids so they can get an extra hug each day is for pansies. 4. Max out tax free accounts. 5. Pull your own weight.

#65 Whiny Millennial on 03.14.18 at 7:53 pm

These people are incredibly stressed with their current situation. Why else would they be writing to some on the internet? You have to remember that these people have come of age where 600k-1 mill has been a common amount of money to pay for a house.

Why do you have to be down on them. At least they have the knowledge to not jump into the market and max themselves out. Instead they are thinking about it and looking for advice. Most people in this age range are not looking for advice.

Us millennial’s have been raised to look for stability, to build and create a home. And for most people that is the process of buying a property to create a home. You have three people here who are at least second guessing that “the path.”

Garth has been wrong multiple occasions. Brexit, Trump, Trudeau, Various bank of Canada interest rate increases that didn’t come when he predicted (to his credit they did come, just much later). The idea of diversifying your assets isn’t new or exciting. He’s not the only person saying this.

So my advice to these people is not to blindly follow Garth. Read his advice but also talk to variety of people.

All of this begs the question, why I read this blog everyday?

#66 young & foolish on 03.14.18 at 7:54 pm

Wow … all these 30 somethings with a quarter million in savings and maxed out RSPs …. and we are concerned about debt levels?

#67 Ben on 03.14.18 at 7:55 pm

My wife and I are in our mid 30s, 3 million net worth, 1.6 million in liquid assets and we don’t even think we can or should retire. What are you going to do everyday? Sit and veg? People who retire early die earlier even when you take into account health, finances etc. working is healthy. And who can retire on 1m in your 40s these days especially if you have to rent (if you own your own home it might be possible but your life wouldn’t be that easy).

#68 Good Times on 03.14.18 at 7:56 pm

Kudos to Devon for taking parental leave. Makes good sense for lower income parent to take time off to care for and bond with baby. Something money can’t buy. Sounds like you’re thoughtfully planning for your family’s future. Teacher’s college may be a great next step if teaching is your heart’s desire.

#69 Max on 03.14.18 at 7:58 pm

Many Happy Returns!!! :)

#70 Cristian on 03.14.18 at 7:59 pm

“Our goal is to become semi-retired in our early 40s. We would like to have over a million in investments by then.”

Naive, naive, naive…
There are plenty of retirement calculators online, I wonder how did he reach the conclusion that they could semi-retire in their 40s with one million in savings?
But wait, maybe they plan to kill themselves in their 50s. Then one mil would be enough to live on.

#71 Samson Nights on 03.14.18 at 8:01 pm

“….The former Toronto councillor also said he was concerned with the province’s efforts to slow the increase of housing prices in the Greater Toronto Area. In early 2017, the government introduced a foreign-buyers tax in the region and expanded rent control. The housing market cooled significantly after those moves. Mr. Ford said he was considering a policy that would do away with the tax.”
– Globe and Mail, Mar 13 2018

Policy? Looks like DoFo (fake anti-elitist and fake champion of the middle and working class) has already been bought and paid for by former (C)onservative epic failure Tim Hudak, aka CEO and Chief Bubble Pumper of the Ontario Real Estate Association.

#72 Albertaguy in AZ on 03.14.18 at 8:03 pm

Garth! HAPPY B DAY!

https://goo.gl/gT5bGw

#73 Kato on 03.14.18 at 8:06 pm

#47 Classical Liberal Millennial on 03.14.18 at 7:09 pm
This is nit picky but wouldn’t it be the youngest Gen Xers, not the oldest, that are around 34?
I’m 31 and thought I was one of the older Millennials.

Mills are folks born early ’80s (’82 according to some googling) to mid 2000’s. The oldest mills are around 36.

#74 Samson Nights on 03.14.18 at 8:06 pm

#6 Blessed_Canadian_Millennial on 03.14.18 at 6:18 pm
Happy Birthday, Mr. T!

It’s official. Wikipedia confirms it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garth_Turner

Ditto, Happy BD. I recommend Tiger Tail Ice Cream.

#75 young & foolish on 03.14.18 at 8:07 pm

“I’m not saying that engineering rocks …but the softies are guaranteed losers”

Here is the opinion of the real “loser”, of the narrow thinker in a wide world.

#76 Boombust on 03.14.18 at 8:08 pm

#56 A guy in Vancouver

You must be watching Global News every night.

The fact is, RE in Metro Vancouver is folding…and fast.

Nice try though, Bub.

#77 NDP Feedback on Proposed Budget on 03.14.18 at 8:08 pm

It is important that you let the BC NDP know that you support their budget:

https://www.bcndp.ca/budget-2018-followup

#78 @careeraftschool on 03.14.18 at 8:08 pm

Couples need to stop using “Gross” income in making huge purchase decisions. Taxes and work related expenses need to be factored in.

First the couple needs to review their pay stubs carefully and look at ALL the deductions. Taxes suck! Second, calculate work related expenses. For example, a second car to get to and from work, professional wardrobe, and coffee & lunches with staff. Third, expenses you incur because you can’t be home before 6:30pm on weeknights. These include after school care and ordering dinners most nights because there is no time to cook. If both parents work, these costs are pretty much fixed.

So deduct all these expenses from your “Gross” income then make the massive purchase decision.

Also don’t expect that bonuses will be paid out every year. Lump sum bonuses are also taxed at a much higher rate than your regular salary. On a $15k bonus you might only net $8k. That’s huge.

#79 Cheekmonster on 03.14.18 at 8:11 pm

Burlington is WAY nicer and safer than many parts of Hamilton. Many parts of Hamilton are a dump and not safe. Crime in Hamilton is 10 fold that of Burlington. There is no comparison. So be sure to plan what part of the Hammer you want to live for the sake of your kids!!!! Some of those Hamilton schools are a real treat!!!!

#80 feldspar on 03.14.18 at 8:18 pm

To 30 year old house dad Devon. From deadly experience, I would suggest you stand in danger of being shown the door by your mate long before you’ve garnered that Million. Think about it. Garth didn’t say that, but that was the track he was on (but too kind to stay on it).

#81 Scully on 03.14.18 at 8:19 pm

@#52 STONE – Regarding your reply to #3 NoOneOfConsequence

“I suggest you get out there and meet new people. Healthier ones. Everyone I know who has retired early is happy and full of hobbies. They all wish they had more hours in a day to do all the fun things they want to do.”
Um, no. Many studies have illustrated a link between retiring and death, never mind illness. One of the most prevalent theories out there has to do with lack of routine, goal setting of any king, and intellectual stimuli from colleagues. Another reason may be that when we retire we start to lose our drive/zest for living, whereas those that stay working longer seem to be more intellectually robust, healthier and therefore live longer. Not only have I read about this phenomenon, but I have many friends who are experiencing retirement in very different ways, even with ample funds to support them. Some are happily retired and busy with their hobbies, but I also know many who are falling apart and won’t life a long life in their retirement years. I think temperament could play a roll, so I guess “know thyself” would be appropriate for such a big decision. It seems there is more to life – and death – than such a simple answer such as “meet new people and get healthier friends.”

“That sounds so sad. Doing work that interests you is good but the rest of your comment makes me sad for you. Have fun, smell the roses, make new friends and experience exciting adventures. There really is more to life than just work and stashing your cash for just before you croak. “

What? He – or she – is working, saving money and does not sound sad at all. Like my answer above, some people need to keep busy, need routine, to set professional and life goals. Also, is this your first time on this blog? It is all about balance, which includes saving for your retirement, so you can choose to work at something you like even if you like what you do now. It’s called something new. I would suggest keeping an open mind.

#82 Long-Time Lurker on 03.14.18 at 8:21 pm

Happy Birthday, Garth! Thank you for all you do!

Sticking up for Smokey: You can say what you want, he’s still a great market reader.

#83 Newcomer on 03.14.18 at 8:25 pm

I would suggest that it doesn’t matter what any of the letter writers do. They are all OK enough financially. None of them have expressed any interest in doing anything of interest. A couple of hundred thousand dollars, more or less, or even a couple of million more won’t have any noticeable impact on their happiness.

I love reading what Garth (happy birthday!) has to say but rather than writing to our host, I would suggest writing to a member of the clergy, a travel agent, a rock band manager, a volunteer coordinator, or the like. There is more to life than snow shovels and paychecks.

#84 Mattl on 03.14.18 at 8:26 pm

Second guy should be over the moon his GF is almost mortage free on an 800k yaletown condo in her early 30s.

#85 Ron on 03.14.18 at 8:30 pm

A single person should have no trouble retiring on $1mm

That’s $3k a month in tax free dividends that increase faster than inflation. In a country with free health care.

Sure, you won’t live like royalty, but it doesn’t cost a thing to get a library book and sit in the sun. What’s better than that?

#86 Lol on 03.14.18 at 8:33 pm

Devon was the best ;
-ambitionless
-let the wife work
-retire at 40 with a $1,000,000 portfolio and two teenagers

HahahahahahahA

#87 tccontrarian on 03.14.18 at 8:34 pm

I’m already semi-retired at 50-something…cause I’m tired only half the time!

Sorry, I WAS going to respond with something more useful to these 3 writers, but as Flat Earth Society guy (person) states, it probably wouldn’t make any difference!

Personally, ‘retirement’ for me (the real kind), means DOING all the things I want to do without worrying about setting up my alarm clock.

The nice thing about investing is that you can keep doing it at any age (as long as the brain is functioning)! If I can achieve 20%/annualized, I don’t think I’ll ever run out of money!

TCC

#88 Ron on 03.14.18 at 8:38 pm

Also, consider:

1. Not working means not having to live in expensive cities where the jobs are.

2. Not working means more time to cook at home, shop for deals, etc. Most people waste money on conveniences cause they’re too busy working to do things for themselves!

3. You can always work part-time at something fun like walking dogs or playing guitar in a wedding band just for pocket money.

#89 AJ Steeltown on 03.14.18 at 8:42 pm

To the couple in the Hamilton Semi: Love Garth, but sell Hamilton, buy Burlington. I’ve seen a few cuties pop up in Burlington recently that were better value than last year. You’re young. You make good money. You’re not looking to upsize to a large mortgage. If it helps you sleep at night get a property where you can rent the basement. Voila. Between that income and the much more affordable property taxes in Burlington you’ll close the gap. Be happy. And good luck!

#90 MF on 03.14.18 at 8:46 pm

I’ll be turning 35 this year.

My take is these stories are somewhat close to reality, but exaggerated for obvious reasons.

Examples:

-The incomes are usually inflated. Most of us have incomes nowhere near that high. More like the average household income and tons of contract in jobs with no benefits.
-The appetite for debt is largely overstated. Yes our generation is less fearful of debt than previous ones, but the appetite for debt is not as big as I read about. Most of us buy a small townhouse or condo.
-The huge, young families. Most of us are just starting families at 34/35, at least us guys anyway. 1 kid, rarely 2 for a family.

MF

#91 Stone on 03.14.18 at 8:50 pm

Happy birthday, Garth. Wishing you many, many, many more.

#92 MF on 03.14.18 at 8:50 pm

#59 OMG on 03.14.18 at 7:40 pm
Is this how 30 year-olds think? Don’t ask me.

-Nobody asked you because we don’t care. No 30 year old I know is contemplated retiring. As a matter of fact, the opposite is true. None of us believe CPP or company pensions will be around when we retire, and we are trying to plan accordingly i.e. multiple income streams (like online businesses) in addition to our paid work.

MF

#93 Interstellar Old Yeller on 03.14.18 at 8:53 pm

Happy birthday, Garth! If you get follow up e-mails from these letter writers, please let us know if they heeded your advice!

#94 MF on 03.14.18 at 8:54 pm

#66 young & foolish on 03.14.18 at 7:54 pm
Wow … all these 30 somethings with a quarter million in savings and maxed out RSPs …. and we are concerned about debt levels?

-They are the exceptions. Everything online is exaggerated. It’s like the online dating world where men add 1-2 inches to their height and women take 20-30 pounds off their weight for their portfolios.

Another example of this is people including the value of their home (with a mortgage) in their fake “million dollar net worth”.

MF

#95 Stone on 03.14.18 at 8:56 pm

#63 Flat Earth Society on 03.14.18 at 7:47 pm
#52 Stone

If personality “types” are to be believed, I think your conversation with #3 NoOne is pointless because neither of you will be able to conceptualize the other’s point of view.

I would deem your personality style to be “Leisurely”, where as #3 is probably “Conscientious”. I’m not saying one is better than the other, evolution created them both, but in my estimation they just don’t mix and can never understand each other or live together without resenting each other.

The conscientious type puts every dirty dish in the dishwasher right away, the leisurely type puts the dirty dishes in the sink. They can’t get along and they can’t understand each other. But they both get by.

————

That may be true. The only thing I’d change is instead of leisurely and conscientious, I would switch it to optimistic and defeatist. I can’t help it trying to switch someone with a defeatist attitude. It’s in my nature.

Also, I stick the dishes straight in the dishwasher. I hate a mess. 8-)

#96 X on 03.14.18 at 8:58 pm

Dave – paying another years rent at $36,000 sure is worth the while if those houses drop another $100,000…with rising rates and taxes tell my why house prices will shoot higher in the next year…..

#97 Smoking Man on 03.14.18 at 9:00 pm

Happy Birthday Gartho. Remember you’re one day closer to death. Have a great day.

#98 Yorkville Renter on 03.14.18 at 9:03 pm

love this post – got everyone to thump their chest and say how rich they are… me? I dont give a flying F about y’all, I’m doing fine.

#99 Wrk.dover on 03.14.18 at 9:08 pm

A calculator on each of the dining table, the work bench and desk, helps daydreams either make sense or a waste of time. Either way, without using the calculator several times a day, every day, you are just spinning tires.

Calculate amount per year, month, week, day, hour, all of them to see how wrong something is or is not. Then find an idea that gives traction.

Don’t just assume you will start saving half your pay because you want to, when you have never saved 10%.

A three-four star Caribbean all inclusive vacation is $10/hr/each based on a couple, from your door and back again. Which in other words costs $4.60/day every day all year each.

This is an example of how to play with a calculator.
You knew this right? Chump change adds up.

Only if you do the math, not so much if you don’t.

It only really works right if you save for the year then take the trip. Unless you are on a Poloz scheme.

#100 Financial Orchid on 03.14.18 at 9:09 pm

Sadly this is what most 30 somethings are thinking. Right. On. the. Nose.

“she would finally get to participate in the conversations about dream renos… I could finally go to Canadian Tire and buy a shovel like a real man” I chuckled as a (not so moist anymore) 30 something .

Ironically as I write about containing house horniness, I get house horny myself and it drags me to the salt mines every morning even with daylight savings.

http://financialorchid.com/3-ways-to-manage-house-horniness-and-fomo/

#101 Wrk.dover on 03.14.18 at 9:09 pm

edit: $10 each per hour

#102 Long-Time Lurker on 03.14.18 at 9:10 pm

#188 Milly on 03.14.18 at 11:21 am
I am worried about this time, as my father in law has a lot of debt and no savings. We aren’t well off ourselves, what do we do when the times comes and he needs care? We can’t afford it, especially if we decide to have a family…. what will be our options when this happens?

>You can start doing something now before the inevitable happens. See if you can get his finances in order now. (Eliminate debt, save money, invest) Have a plan for the future: just spend some time thinking and researching about it when you have some free time. If you buy a house see if you can have a spare room for him to use eventually after the kids have grown or do a good job of growing his and/or your portfolio.

#103 Brian Bourbon on 03.14.18 at 9:13 pm

Brenda, sell the Hamilton semi and buy detached in Burlington. Ignore the pathetic doomers on here…. well worth being closer to family, better schools etc.

#104 Financial Orchid on 03.14.18 at 9:15 pm

Not to mention, all these financial independence/retire early extreme stories (like your CBC featured clients) really make a lot of not so good @ math millennials think 1MM is a LOT of money and will last them for the next 40-50 years and put their kids thru college and pay for the roof replacement in 25 years

#105 paracho on 03.14.18 at 9:17 pm

Happy Birthday Garth !

#106 M on 03.14.18 at 9:21 pm

@#75 young & foolish

“narrow thinking” is occasionally a good thing. Help with focusing. An art that you’ll hopefully learn one day.

The eng thing is an optimum choice… a convexity as is called in investment. Indeed 33% of the mech eng graduates are pushing pizza but the number is 65% for the other category. Learn to be efficient my friend. Life is limited, you want to work less and pick up sailing, skiing, climbing. A quick start in a good profession plus the ideas that you can collect on this blog …can help one to minimize the time in the jungle. Retire ar 45. Go to work once a week . If you want to. Be a consultant.
Breathe :)

#107 MATHMAN on 03.14.18 at 9:26 pm

RE MF#90

Thank you – the BS meter is going off tonight!! All these folks in their early thirties straight ballin’

They graduated high school right into six figure jobs apparently.

I laugh hysterically at what people claim on this blog. How does one in their early thirties who presumably has a post secondary education bank 500k while paying off a mtg??

If you never left your parents basement, never had to pay for school and were given a large downpayment at 25 to buy a property, then it may be plausible.

Fiction can be fun.

Math

#108 Pppap on 03.14.18 at 9:29 pm

I am like #3. Multiple millions, never need to work again. Dealing with health issues now after of 20+ years of abusing my body for work and frugal living.

I don’t see what’s wrong with wanting to retire early. A career as a wage slave is meaningless. I say go ahead and retire #3. But you might need $3mil. Life with only 1mil generating income is not very comfortable.

#109 Capt. Serious on 03.14.18 at 9:30 pm

Today’s one sentence conclusion:
People cannot do math.
Next!

#110 Blacksheep on 03.14.18 at 9:47 pm

NDP Feedback #77,

“It is important that you let the BC NDP know that you support their budget:”

https://www.bcndp.ca/budget-2018-followup
——————————–
Thanks for the link.

I sent John a note, straightening him out, along with my # so he can actually have a shot at re election.

He’ll thank me later….

#111 Brydle604 on 03.14.18 at 9:50 pm

Happy Birthday Garth!
John B

#112 A J on 03.14.18 at 9:51 pm

Painful. I’m officially embarrassed for my generation.

SMH.

#113 ulsterman on 03.14.18 at 9:52 pm

#14 jim on 03.14.18 at 6:26 pm
“she nets $1750, less taxes (which I understand are only going to go up) and funnels the remainder into savings.”

These people are financially illiterate.

Pump 800k into a balanced portfolio and you’ll get at least 6% coming back per year. Perhaps better. (My non-self-managed accounts at Vanguard have been returning 8% average over 6 years).

Jim, to play the Devil’s Advocate, remember she has made out like a bandit buying that Yaletown condo. It’s probably doubled in the past 5 years and i bet when she sells it she’ll claim the entire thing as a tax-free principal residence. Sure, you are not allowed but many do and get away with it. I bet she’d done much better renting out her condo and watching it double than if she’d opened her Questrade account and tried to be a Master of the Universe and pick her own stocks. She’s bought into the mantra of prices only every go up, and if your time frame is the past 15 years then she was basically correct. 15 years of gains makes people start to believe that it’s the new norm. Now of it was me i’d be selling asap and investing the money, but i really do see why she may believe so strongly in property. I think the peak is in, but then what do i know?

#114 JRH on 03.14.18 at 9:56 pm

Happy Birthday young fella !!

#115 Dave Ahem on 03.14.18 at 9:56 pm

I’m 37, wife is 35. We have over 600k in liquid assets, over 300k equity in our house, a combined income in excess of 200k a year and no debt other than our mortgage. We live cheap, pay our bills early and want for nothing. If the poop hit the fan, we could liquidate our assets and be mortgage free in a week with some money still in the bank.

We are also the poorest of our social circle. Most of our friends own bigger houses, have more saved and make more and none of us are 40 yet. Not everyone in Toronto is living in huge debt, paycheque to paycheque. Our friends know to save, make smart choices and invested in their careers which is still more important than your investments or your house. The people we know work hard and succeed hard.

Honestly, if you can’t make it in Canada, you can’t make it.

#116 Tony on 03.14.18 at 10:00 pm

Re: #61 Trumpocalypse2018 on 03.14.18 at 7:42 pm

With Hasbro and Mattel likely to follow, then the video games stocks like Electronic Arts later in time.

#117 stage1dave on 03.14.18 at 10:04 pm

My wife works at Canadian Tire, and tells me most of the shovels are bought by women!

I’m trying real hard not to read to much into that…

#118 akashic record on 03.14.18 at 10:11 pm

Happy birthday Garth, go celebrate, have some fun. :)

#119 NotLegalAdvice on 03.14.18 at 10:11 pm

Happy Birthday Garth!

Loved today’s blog about 30- something year olds that are absolutely clueless! Reminds me of a few people I know ! Sadly, I understand the frustration of trying to convince the significant other to rent instead of buy! I don’t see the point in buying a property unless the prices come down.

Be patient people, the real estate bubble is about to burst! And if it doesn’t, pray for our generation.

#120 Smoking Man on 03.14.18 at 10:16 pm

Trumps new economic advisor on T2

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/world/2018/03/14/trumps-new-economic-adviser-called-trudeau-a-left-wing-crazy-guy-but-he-sides-with-canada-on-nafta-tariffs.html?__twitter_impression=true

Bahaha

#121 West Vancouver Financial Crisis on 03.14.18 at 10:18 pm

Really? The speculation tax is causing a financial crisis in West Vancouver?

Well, Mr. Mayor of West Vancouver Michael Smith. I will have to pass on the advice from Garth.

You don’t like the speculation tax, you can sell your place and move. In fact, Garth said the East Coast is pretty good. Why don’t you head there?

The money launderers have left the building. It isn’t the speculation.

#122 The Limited Sage on 03.14.18 at 10:18 pm

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/honey-i-spent-too-much-on-the-kids/article38287099/

“Today’s parents are sparing no expense on their children’s lifestyles – be it lavish birthday parties with a price tag of $1,000, tutoring sessions to help them get ahead or competitive hockey fees than can run above $20,000 for a single season.”

#123 West Kelowna Fire Sale on Now on 03.14.18 at 10:22 pm

Findlater said damage is already being done to the West Kelowna economy as many property owners are either in the process of selling, or are planning to sell, rather than be faced with paying the new tax. It’s rate is pegged at $5 per $1,000 of assessed value this year and rising to $20 per $1,000 of assessed value in 2019.

Dammmmmmmm!

#124 Popeye the sailor man on 03.14.18 at 10:25 pm

#55 Flat Earth Society on 03.14.18 at 7:22 pm
___________________________________

Flat Earthers from AROUND the GLOBE will meet in FANTASYLAND Hotel in Edmonton on Aug 9/10th.

http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/paula-simons-no-getting-around-the-absurdity-of-edmontons-flat-earth-conference

#125 Rick on 03.14.18 at 10:35 pm

Sorry Garth. I retired at 38, never looked back, that was in 2004. I have more invested cash now than then and am mortgage free.

#126 Meet the Mayors of BC Real Estate on 03.14.18 at 10:39 pm

Hi, I’m Gregor Robertson. Fixing homelessness needs to be a top priority.Don’t worry about all of that other stuff. We need to fix homelessness.

Hi, I’m Colin Basran. Gregor is a visionary.

Hi, I’m Malcolm Brodie – you know, Richmond, BC??? Ask Steve Saretsky about me.

Hi, I’m Michael Smith – we start at 4M here in West Vancouver. Although I am not sure why nobody is buying right now. Total bargain though.

Hi, I’m Marc Lefebvre. Don’t worry Parksville. I will ensure speculators are VERY welcome here.

Hi, I’m Bob Rennie. I am actually not a mayor. At least not on paper. Who call the shots?

#127 Duke on 03.14.18 at 10:40 pm

The first girl wants to play a losing game for no good reason.

The second guy is all about bragging how much money he has. What a loser!!

The third guy wants to retire at 40’s? For what? Below is the most pathetic statement I’ve ever seen. Wow.

“We were crunching numbers to see what we could afford, we put our total projected income (post teachers college) into a tax calculator and saw that the more we make the greater the taxes paid. This lowers the incentive to put in the extra hours/schooling/years for the larger paycheck when we have an opportunity to stay local, raise our family, and reach our savings goals if we continue to keep costs down.”

#128 Pete on 03.14.18 at 10:40 pm

#19 Niagara Region
——————————————-

Read this report: https://www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/8094565-niagara-s-economic-momentum-second-strongest-in-canada/

it ain’t getting softer in Niagara because it’s still affordable…I bought last year

#129 Don Campbell on 03.14.18 at 10:42 pm

Hey, Don Campbell. I can make it REIN…that is right 2018 real estate investment network…yo Tony Robbins, yo pitbull.

Meet me in Kelowna, 2018….we gonna make it REIN..2018!

MC AJ Hazzi gonna be on the turn tables…you know how we spin it.

#130 Leo Trollstoy on 03.14.18 at 10:57 pm

8 figures or keep it to yourself

It’s embarrassing

#131 Glengarry Girl on 03.14.18 at 11:04 pm

I’m calling BS on some of the financial expectations that some on this blog THINK they need or will acquire before Retirement. We all read the statistics and the data, not too many will be spending thousands a month for decades in their old age on care. When did we become this way, when exactly did we all decide that this was acceptable. There is a lot of koolaide drinking on a lot of topics. Like everyone should spend a million to raise their kids, paying for all weddings and educations. That we will all work and invest and have millions of bucks in investments making a crisp 8% without interruption. However we also thnk that housing will collapse and debt bubble will pop without effecting these investments. It’s not a reasonable expectation. I am in the camp of living a Simple Life of health and quality for as long as possible. I expect to retire early because life is more than work money and career. There are plenty of plans that will sustain a wonderful existence on a million dollars early in life. Also quit knocking us savers with our cash in GICs and CDs. I’m not making 8 % but I can have a reasonable plan for my future and I sleep well at night. I’ve raised 3 wonderful daughters. they are self sufficient and independent and when the time comes I trust all 3 of them to make good decisions for me and their Dad, just as we have for them…must be old fashioned thinking.

#132 Bottoms_Up on 03.14.18 at 11:07 pm

Devon, raising kids is expensive, and you are just getting started.

Relying on one income IS putting all your eggs in one basket. What if she falls ill or leaves you?

Also, being a teacher has many family friendly perks that you will come to appreciate when your child is school age. You can’t put a price on 10 weeks off every year. Plus earning potential over $100k and pension for life.

#133 Chaddywack on 03.14.18 at 11:08 pm

Happy Birthday Garth!

Take some time for yourself and family and enjoy!

#134 Ace Goodheart on 03.14.18 at 11:12 pm

This is just too awesome:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/03/14/kathleen-wynne-calls-doug-fords-comments-on-ontario-pot-sales-reckless.html

“Ford has suggested that he’d prefer a free market when it comes to marijuana sales.”

Yeah, like, back in high school the market was completely unregulated. We could sell it anywhere. This is seriously uncool…..

You cannot, cannot make this stuff up. Sometimes life just gives you these little gems.

#135 Bottoms_Up on 03.14.18 at 11:20 pm

#81 Scully on 03.14.18 at 8:19 pm
—————————–
You both raise good points. One of the keys to longevity is having friendships. Also, keeping busy (including potentially working) can bring one satisfaction and keep the mind sharp. Nothing wrong with that.

#136 Dolce Vita on 03.14.18 at 11:33 pm

#107 MATHMAN

Or they won the lottery AND their parents died that were wealthy and left them everything AND they all write letters to Garth. Very high probability stuff…triple snake eyes kind of probability.

I agree with you, a lot of bravado and male cow manure here tonight on wealth and income.

You need only go and look at CRA tables of taxable income by age and decide for yourself (link to ON tax brackets by age below, as in taxable income, not net income).

Then again, all of the very few high income earners pose ridiculous questions a 5 year old could answer to Garth along with providing intimate details of their sorry existence.

Conclusion: High earning wealthy early 30 somethings are stupid and they all write to Garth for advice a 5 year old could give them (and have high net worth’s + sorry lives).

Then again, blind dumb luck financially, career wise?

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/cra-arc/migration/cra-arc/gncy/stts/itstb-sipti/2015/tbl4f-eng.pdf

#137 Don Regan on 03.14.18 at 11:37 pm

Vancouver West

2129 West 35th Ave
Orig $4,300,000
now $3,300,000

#138 Financial Orchid on 03.14.18 at 11:46 pm

Happy Birthday Uncle Garth!

#139 Beso on 03.15.18 at 12:02 am

“It’s like someone hit a pinata full of white people who suck at golf.”

The Big Short Movie :-)

#140 BCWally on 03.15.18 at 12:06 am

Not sure if this helps, but this is what I am looking at. Prefabricated 18ft wide home for about 120K in a nice trailer park with $600 a month pad fees. Those fees often cover most utilities. I know there is a bias against so called “trailers”, but these are really nice spacious homes with virtually no maintenance that do hold their value. If you find the right park you will discover they are very child safe with a supportive community.

#141 Moses71 on 03.15.18 at 12:11 am

Keep busy doing what you love and maybe get paid for some successful early retirees to escape an early death? I think this unambitious dude doesn’t have that now so his system won’t undergo any shock. What will kill him is looking at his providing wife all day vs entertaining his own selfish mind.
Check out rising divorce rates in retirement. Then they’ll each have half and will need to keep working. Nice theory, eh?

#142 Moses71 on 03.15.18 at 12:12 am

And happy birthday Garth!!!

#143 Victor V on 03.15.18 at 12:18 am

Best wishes to you on your Birthday, Garth.

#144 Vanreal on 03.15.18 at 12:34 am

Reading your blog makes me laugh. Some of the outrageous incomes and net worth people claim to have in their early to mid 30s would be impossible if they had spent any time at university. Graduating university at 22 into a salary of 80,000 (extremely high) minus expenses and taxes would give you around 10,000 per year to invest. In ten years you might be looking at 150,000 at most. Either they inherited or they are being less than truthful I suspect the latter

#145 Flat Earth Society on 03.15.18 at 12:34 am

#95 Stone

Well I certainly don’t have enough information to make any clinical observations, if those are even possible. To be more precise it seems to me you and #3 have a very different world view, which probably can’t be reconciled, and probably doesn’t need to be either. Personalities are not right or wrong, as long as you get along in life getting another personality wouldn’t offer an improvement.

#146 macroman on 03.15.18 at 12:45 am

garth gets cake on pi day?

#147 Fortune500 on 03.15.18 at 12:53 am

Something tells me Garth isn’t a fan of /r/financialindependence or /r/leanfire! To many Canadians in their mid 30s a $1,000,000 invested is a lot of money (i know i know, not what it was) and could definitely sustain a family with the right mentality and spending habits especially if they worked part time at some point or the odd project to sustain part of their living and put a few Twoonies away in the fund over the decades.

It’s not an all or nothing proposition. Maybe this last family could ‘downshift’ or do mini-retirements, or explore any other number of life choices without being told that the Trinitiy study suggests that if they never work again and keep spending the way they do, they will go broke (And like it or not the CCB will come tax free for a number of years to help with the transition).

Anyways, if you are interested in that way of thinking (ie. slaving away for multiple millions so you can have half the living standard your parents have in retirement vs. having time now with your young children and maintain options for the future) check out those subs. If you do, you will see many couples living this less conventional lifestyle with success.

#148 Flat Earth Society on 03.15.18 at 1:10 am

#124 Popeye the sailor man

I said we were sorry, man. This thing has taken on a life of its own. And please understand that this man is not affiliated with us in any way. Our experiment is over, but like an uncontrollable nuclear chain reaction it turns out we couldn’t stop it when we were done with it.

We thought that originally we could stop the experiment by pointing out that there is no such thing as a circle in nature, a circle is a 2D projection of a sphere or perhaps a cylinder from just on the end, but that antidote didn’t work. We later tried to point out that lunar eclipses always show a circular earth shadow on the moon but they just said NASA was faking the eclipses in a sound room just like they faked the moon landings. We then tried to point out that you can’t see Moscow from Alaska despite what Palin said and they voted for her anyway.

We tried to stop it and are very sorry in retrospect that we started it. All we were trying to do is a little psychological experimentation. While the data was revealing, we are now inundated with it.

I hesitate to say it but the SJW thing was also ours. Now we are really worried.

No question we have also become staunch opponents of GMO’s but that one wasn’t ours. Hasn’t anyone ever seen Jurassic Park? In case you haven’t, the monsters get lose and everyone that hasn’t died already dies after the credits.

We also were not behind nuclear weapons but my goodness the implications of having them in a world where a flat earth creationist might end up somehow in the command structure are truly frightening. After further research we came to the conclusion that a great many people, including key decision makers in the west, believe it is possible to “win” a nuclear war. At least in the east we found the reasoning to be more along the lines of “nobody will win a nuclear war, and we mean to make sure you understand that”, but even that stance is frightening.

#149 jane24 on 03.15.18 at 3:08 am

Garth don’t waste the energy to type back to these three couples. They have all decided what they want to do and are just asking you for confirmation. All three cases have sufficient money in or coming in to ensure that they enjoy secure lives. They are very lucky and should quit whining and chasing the brass ring.

One note I would make for them is that the routes they are set on will bring a lot more stress into their lives and endanger this secuity. Is it worth it?

#150 Disappointed Fan on 03.15.18 at 3:26 am

Big fan and long time reader of your blog. But sometimes your close mindedness astounds me Garth. What’s there to not like about retiring in 40s?

“to do what?”… To do whatever the hell he wants. Eat, play, drink, learn. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out something better to do with time than work.

#151 F1 on 03.15.18 at 3:47 am

I am in my mid thirties married with 2 kids and a house with a mortgage, good income and good savings, all invested at this time in high quality precious metal miners and precious metals as I feel that over the next 3 to 5 years we will see the typical balanced portfolios go down up to 30 percent as historically ultra expensive stock markets go back to historical average P/Es and bonds drop as rates rise. With a recession on the horizon in the next 1 to 3 years, buying cheap assets that do well in turmoil should lead to a good payoff and less than 1% of people are invested in this asset class so when it starts to rise people will realize they need to be in gold and silver and further drive prices up.

#152 F1 on 03.15.18 at 3:57 am

An interesting observation is that everyone here who is bragging about being invested in a balanced portfolio with high returns is getting complacent about this always being the case just as the people you make fun of who were complacent about housing. In reality when the next recession hits stocks have a long way to go down especially if central banks will no longer be the saviours with 0 interest rates and quantitative easing. Bond will also fall as rates go up so you may have a double whammy. Remember just because something has worked up until now does not mean it will continue.

#153 Steve French on 03.15.18 at 4:09 am

To the person using the name “Steve-O”.

Cease and desist.

That’s my name, and has been for years.

Smoking Man can attest to this.

Steve-O.

#154 Cheekmonster on 03.15.18 at 5:46 am

Hamilton vs Burington

Hamilton taxes are higher but they offer less in services (fewer garbage pickups, no big garbage days, Hamilton does not clear sidewalks and many things like that)

Crime is much higher in Hamilton. Perhaps one of the highest crime rates in Canada. Go to a Hamilton mall and look around. It’s depressing.

Pays are lower in Hamilton.

Traffic is brutal from the one-way streets in the city, the Skyway, the 403 are all a mess. It’s a big city and with that comes traffic. Burlington is more contained and much closer to Toronto on heavy traffic days. There is nothing worse than a long drive home from Toronto and then hitting heavy traffic on the skyway or 403. Mind numbing and depressing. If you work in Toronto it’s a no-brainer. Spend more time with family less time on highways.

Go train access is frustrating. Take the bus to Burlington, then transfer to the train. Cant count how many times the bus was late causing me to miss the train.

Amenities/restaurant are a bit lower standard in many cases is that’s your thing. The Keg in Burlington is acceptable – the one in Hamilton is a dump. There are many examples of this pattern. We found ourselves constantly driving to Burlington for a nice night out. Safer/cleaner!

The schooling system is rougher in Hamilton. Poorer communities will have rougher school systems. At least your kids will have some character :)

I personally would prefer to rent in Burlington before buying in Hamilton especially if I had kids. Or buy smaller in Burlington.

If i worked in Hamilton I would live in Ancaster. If I worked in Hamilton with a low income I would have to accept my fate and likely try to aim for better $$$ or move out of Province. Hamilton would be my very last choice based on my experiences.

I still love the TiCats :) OskeWeeWee

#155 Stone on 03.15.18 at 6:41 am

#81 Scully on 03.14.18 at 8:19 pm
@#52 STONE – Regarding your reply to #3 NoOneOfConsequence

“I suggest you get out there and meet new people. Healthier ones. Everyone I know who has retired early is happy and full of hobbies. They all wish they had more hours in a day to do all the fun things they want to do.”
Um, no. Many studies have illustrated a link between retiring and death, never mind illness. One of the most prevalent theories out there has to do with lack of routine, goal setting of any king, and intellectual stimuli from colleagues. Another reason may be that when we retire we start to lose our drive/zest for living, whereas those that stay working longer seem to be more intellectually robust, healthier and therefore live longer. Not only have I read about this phenomenon, but I have many friends who are experiencing retirement in very different ways, even with ample funds to support them. Some are happily retired and busy with their hobbies, but I also know many who are falling apart and won’t life a long life in their retirement years. I think temperament could play a roll, so I guess “know thyself” would be appropriate for such a big decision. It seems there is more to life – and death – than such a simple answer such as “meet new people and get healthier friends.”

“That sounds so sad. Doing work that interests you is good but the rest of your comment makes me sad for you. Have fun, smell the roses, make new friends and experience exciting adventures. There really is more to life than just work and stashing your cash for just before you croak. “

What? He – or she – is working, saving money and does not sound sad at all. Like my answer above, some people need to keep busy, need routine, to set professional and life goals. Also, is this your first time on this blog? It is all about balance, which includes saving for your retirement, so you can choose to work at something you like even if you like what you do now. It’s called something new. I would suggest keeping an open mind.

——-

I suggest you read #108. I feel for Pppap and this is exactly what I am looking to avoid (health issues). Money will not buy back time or better health. The “sad” part is that most people only realize after health has deteriorated or time has gone by that they took them for granted (not intentionally of course) anticipating that both would remain static but of course that isn’t reality. I completely agree a happy medium (balance) is the right course. It’s just, when you have the the cash stashed away (7 figures now), you come to realize that we’ve all been brainwashed to believe that being a wage slave is the correct path. It is not and not a life goal either. It’s just a means to something better. There are many things to do and keep busy at than serving some corporate uberlord. And yes, I understand I’m in the minority in that way of thinking. That’s ok. So long as I’m happy with my lot in life and everyone else is as well, all is good in the world. Unfortunately, most people are mindless brainwashed drones who are dissatisfied with their lives and can’t plan a way out of that misery. Blue pill? Red pill? Ultimately, I think many of those same people who fall ill when they retire were already quite ill while working.

#156 AK on 03.15.18 at 6:50 am

Manhattan Landlords Race to Fill Apartments in Declining Market

#157 Stone on 03.15.18 at 6:51 am

#130 Leo Trollstoy on 03.14.18 at 10:57 pm
8 figures or keep it to yourself

It’s embarrassing

——-

Says who? You? A nobody? Get a life. LOL

#158 Stone on 03.15.18 at 6:53 am

#131 Glengarry Girl on 03.14.18 at 11:04 pm
I’m calling BS on some of the financial expectations that some on this blog THINK they need or will acquire before Retirement. We all read the statistics and the data, not too many will be spending thousands a month for decades in their old age on care. When did we become this way, when exactly did we all decide that this was acceptable. There is a lot of koolaide drinking on a lot of topics. Like everyone should spend a million to raise their kids, paying for all weddings and educations. That we will all work and invest and have millions of bucks in investments making a crisp 8% without interruption. However we also thnk that housing will collapse and debt bubble will pop without effecting these investments. It’s not a reasonable expectation. I am in the camp of living a Simple Life of health and quality for as long as possible. I expect to retire early because life is more than work money and career. There are plenty of plans that will sustain a wonderful existence on a million dollars early in life. Also quit knocking us savers with our cash in GICs and CDs. I’m not making 8 % but I can have a reasonable plan for my future and I sleep well at night. I’ve raised 3 wonderful daughters. they are self sufficient and independent and when the time comes I trust all 3 of them to make good decisions for me and their Dad, just as we have for them…must be old fashioned thinking.

———

Common sense is never out of fashion. Well done.

#159 Banana on 03.15.18 at 6:58 am

Happy birthday, Garth!

Regarding Devon’s situation and plan –
First – no one would question a woman staying at home or working only part-time to raise kids and manage the household while the husband is the “beast of burden”. If that’s what’s best for your family overall and your partner is supportive, do it.
Second – teachers’ college is now 2 years and most teachers can’t find a permanent position teaching until 5ish years of supply work. If you plan to already semi-retire in 10 years then Perhaps better to use the skills you already have to continue work you’re already doing, unless of course you’re extremely passionate about teaching and might want to supply after semi-retiring!
Third – there should be no shame in wanting to semi-retire in your 40s to pursue work you find meaningful on a part-time basis, spend more time with family and friends and pursue your hobbies. There is so much more to life than paid, stressful, 50 hour/week work, and anyone who wonders what you’d do has little creativity – likely because they’re trapped in the rat race and overconsumption and have not had time to see any other path.
I do think that a little over $1M would be difficult to live on if you did no paid work at all from early 40s. You’d live on about $40k per year, which is possible outside of commuting distance to big cities but it would mean a simple life, with little room for decades with more modest returns or a crisis (think divorce, disability).

Best of luck to you and take the criticism with a grain of salt ;)

#160 Cottingham a bargain on 03.15.18 at 6:59 am

Pretty sure Garth you could get us all a group discount off tickets for the upcoming wealthexpo. Lots of Pitbull wannabes here.
Maybe get a section reserved specific for all the closeted house humpers and brick lickers in the comments section just waiting for the “ magic time” to jump into RE ownership.

#161 BillyBob on 03.15.18 at 7:09 am

#52 Stone on 03.14.18 at 7:15 pm
#3 NoOneOfConsequence on 03.14.18 at 6:13 pm
I don’t get why so many people want to ‘retire’ in their 40’s.
There’s like some kind of mystique to retirement.
Everyone I know who has retired early has ended with some kind of health issue…stroke, heart attack, brain aneurysm, alcohol problems…whatever.
I prefer the idea of having enough money invested to fund my final ‘working years’…where I can work at what interests me rather than at what sustains me.

—————

There’s more to life than working. Our purpose is not to live to work but to work to live (well).

“Everyone I know who has retired early has ended with some kind of health issue…stroke, heart attack, brain aneurysm, alcohol problems…whatever.”

I suggest you get out there and meet new people. Healthier ones. Everyone I know who has retired early is happy and full of hobbies. They all wish they had more hours in a day to do all the fun things they want to do.

“I prefer the idea of having enough money invested to fund my final ‘working years’…where I can work at what interests me rather than at what sustains me.”

That sounds so sad. Doing work that interests you is good but the rest of your comment makes me sad for you. Have fun, smell the roses, make new friends and experience exciting adventures. There really is more to life than just work and stashing your cash for just before you croak.

I think too many people have forgotten why we actually work. It is not a life goal.

====================================

Such airy-fairy nonsense to the vast majority of the world who work their asses off every day to provide for themselves and their families. Work is most certainly their “life goal” and they’re happy to have it.

It isn’t about the work, it’s about the purpose behind it. Working to do something worthwhile or something you enjoy isn’t labourious. Most of humanity may not have the liberal elite’s luxury of living a leisurely life of smelling roses and dabbling in hobbies, but they certainly have far more purpose, not to mention fulfillment. The whole concept of “retirement” has only existed for a blink of an eye in the scheme of history, and only due to the false economy of debt. That’s ending, and so retirement will also slide inexorably away as well for most.

Striving to not HAVE to work is fine, but I happen to enjoy my day job immensely (airplane driver). The thought of a traditional retirement makes me shudder.

So does Trudopian fantasies of swanning about with on other people’s money doing a whole lot of nothing. What a sad thing to strive for.

#162 Trumpocalypse2018 on 03.15.18 at 7:23 am

THE IDES OF MARCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TOTAL GLOBAL CHAOS BEGINS TODAY

PREPARE.

#163 AfterTheHouseSold on 03.15.18 at 7:30 am

OT: NAFTA/Canadian dairy cartel

http://business.financialpost.com/business/troubled-nafta-talks-proof-of-need-to-diversify-open-up-protected-industries-experts

Here we go. More cheese, please!

#164 Raging Ranter on 03.15.18 at 7:36 am

@ #9 Paul, five words into your post I knew your net worth was $260k. If you want people to stop looking at what you hav, maybe don’t be so eager to tell them what you have.

#165 Steven Rowlandson on 03.15.18 at 7:58 am

Buying a new place for $750,000, plus land transfer tax, will result in a mortgage of roughly $570,000.

No deal! Yes to 3 years pay for a home on a lot.
Right now that totals about $29,000 based on last years income building stairs. The labor force is getting 1960s incomes nominally and is being required to pay for the lifestyles of the rich and famous as a minimum. It won’t work.

#166 Cheekmonster on 03.15.18 at 8:25 am

When I said Hamilton in my previous comparable I also meant to include Stoney Creek. If you do not sure spend a hour at Eastgate Mall. There are some rough characters around there. Look up Eastgate mall shootings and robberies.

Here’s an interesting article on guns in Hamilton. https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8326502-interrupting-gun-violence-and-the-rise-of-gangs-in-hamilton/

A few of my friends are cops and they confirm Hamilton’s crime is out of control and worst they have seen it.

#167 NoName on 03.15.18 at 8:35 am

For that family that would like to move to Burlington and the that gigantic mortgage, I have two words for them. Don’t. Our hamer lcbo are always better stocked, trust me.
https://imgur.com/a/807yy

#168 Hamsterwheelie on 03.15.18 at 8:47 am

I wish I had thought more about finances in my 20’s and 30’s – although I was on a very different path than these folks. At the very least I was working and saving and living well below my means – that much served me fairly well. Now in my 40’s I’m trying to catch up – real estate at the right time, in the right place, has been helpful as well as Greater Fool & a bit of Madam X :-) Never to old to learn

#169 Reynolds531 on 03.15.18 at 8:47 am

So the trumpocolyse guy ran an internet cable into the bunker?

#170 Ret on 03.15.18 at 8:48 am

#154 #166 Cheekmonster

All true. Sky high auto and home insurance rates as soon as you give your postal code. There is no good news in Hamilton and the trajectory is down. Pay the premium and live in Burlington.

That is where most of Hamilton’s fire, police, hospital, university workers and by-law live.

#171 rock pile on 03.15.18 at 8:52 am

#21 Damifino on 03.14.18 at 6:33 pm
#3 NoOneOfConsequence

I don’t get why so many people want to ‘retire’ in their 40’s
——————————

You must have a limited idea of what ‘retirement’ means, or at least, could mean.

It doesn’t necessarily entail sitting in a chair watching daytime TV and waiting for a stroke. Having enough wealth to live independently opens a world of creative possibilities for those at any stage of life.

But I suppose you’re right. It may not be a healthy state for people with a profound poverty of imagination.

————————————————————-

I so agree with how great retirement is, at least for me. I’m 53, semi-retired (work about 12 hrs/week), and it’s great. There is no shortage of interesting things to do with all that free time. I’ve gotten to spend more time with my wife, on my hobbies, and am in the best shape I’ve been in since my early 30s. I highly recommend it.

#172 dharma bum on 03.15.18 at 9:03 am

#26 Snap Crackle & Pop

These people make decent money but don’t have a clue.

It’s painful to watch and listen to. I just smile and nod. They cannot be saved.
——————————————————————–

That is a very mature and sophisticated attitude to take with your doomed peer group. You are absolutely correct.

They are destined for lifelong misery. Most people just don’t get it. They have been indoctrinated by our overwhelming culture since birth – the culture of shallowness, empty desire and mass consumption.

“When one is overcome by this wretched, clinging desire in the world, one’s sorrows increase like grass growing up after a lot of rain.”

– Gautama Buddha

#173 Willy on 03.15.18 at 9:08 am

If a million at 40 isn’t enough to retire on (I know its not!)..

…how’s 1.3M at 53, in 7 years?
Unmarried, no kids. Plus I have a mortgage free 800K house.

I hope that will cover me!

#174 Alistair McLaughlin on 03.15.18 at 9:27 am

These kids who stumble across the Mr. Money Mustache blog and think they can retire by 40 are missing a few things. First of all, for most people, that strategy only works in multi-year bull markets. I suspect many “Mustachians” will find themselves looking for work again should a major multi-year bear market ever set in. Same for the Firecracker lady.

Pete himself (MMM host) is one of the few exceptions to that, as he is ultra-frugal and has a tonne of marketable skills that keep him occupied and keep the income rolling in. He may be retired in the sense that he doesn’t have a regular job to wake up to, but he is busy, and he likes it that way. His wife seems to be of a similar type. They are of a type I very much admire, but I’m not sure I could not emulate.

That’s the key. Those who retire early and stay “retired” are usually high energy people who have a crazy amount of DIY skills and the desire to put them to use. Those skills not only negate the need to ever hire expensive outside help in the form of a tradesman or a mechanic, but also enable them to take on profitable side hustles. How many Millennials does that describe?

#175 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 9:31 am

Read this carefully and plan accordingly.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stephen-poloz-canadian-dollar-loonie-1.4574167

I never read more lies in a single article in my life.

The incompetent at BOC is looking for an excuse for not to do his job and defend the currency.

He is talking about labour market capacity and investments in Canada (laughing ensued) when capital is moving out.

Severe stagflation, inflationary depression coming folks.

If there is a recovery and the economy is fine why not normalize the rates? US is doing it.
No inflation? Right.

As I said: run farther away from CAD and TSX as faster as you can.

Euro going from 1.2 to 1.6 CAD, soon to be 2.

This joint is going down big time.

#176 Tater on 03.15.18 at 9:39 am

#144 Vanreal on 03.15.18 at 12:34 am
Reading your blog makes me laugh. Some of the outrageous incomes and net worth people claim to have in their early to mid 30s would be impossible if they had spent any time at university. Graduating university at 22 into a salary of 80,000 (extremely high) minus expenses and taxes would give you around 10,000 per year to invest. In ten years you might be looking at 150,000 at most. Either they inherited or they are being less than truthful I suspect the latter
—————————————————————-
Some of us graduated, moved into 80k jobs and saw our incomes grow at 20% a year for a decade. We worked like dogs to do it though. And if you have a couple who followed that path, by mid 30’s, they’re firmly in the top 1% of income earners.

#177 maxx on 03.15.18 at 9:47 am

#3 NoOneOfConsequence on 03.14.18 at 6:13 pm

“I don’t get why so many people want to ‘retire’ in their 40’s.
There’s like some kind of mystique to retirement.
Everyone I know who has retired early has ended with some kind of health issue…stroke, heart attack, brain aneurysm, alcohol problems…whatever.”

“Retirement”, or whatever people choose to call it is so underrated. We retired from “9 to 5” at ages 47 and 50 after saving like fury for a couple of decades (much easier to do when you’re young) and practically living off of fresh air (a great skill to hone and use at any age). A few other bits of luck lined up as well.

After a year or so of freedom, on a trip abroad, we set up our business. We are very fortunate as we love doing so much together and have the same attitudes about money, wealth creation and getting value out of every transaction).

Our business runs on very low overhead (no locked-in running costs) and is almost 100% mobile – we run our business meetings on hikes to coffee shops at a nearby town (far more time now to incorporate fitness and fresh air), or waiting at airports and on cruise ships.

We were both locked and loaded with dreams ready to deploy at retirement in our 20’s and could hardly wait.
9 to 5 was merely the means to an end.

If you have a vision for the day when you hand yourself the keys to all of your life’s time, you’ll feel a sense of gratitude every single day that is like no other. Your days take on a completely different quality….you report to yourself and your goals are yours to pursue.

Retirement is everything I hoped and dreamed it would be – far more time with my spouse, a health-giving sense of wonder, hope and excitement and never, ever having to worry about money. The work we did to get here, like many in our position, was very substantial with very little luck. We made our luck.

Much of the work we all do when we’re young pushes others’ agendas and goals. If you have your own, you might have the keys to an outstanding retirement, whatever that means to you.

Just stuff your coffers mercilessly and acquire as many skills as you can along the way.

And never sit still.

#178 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 9:56 am

176 Tater on 03.15.18 at 9:39 am
#144 Vanreal on 03.15.18 at 12:34 am
Reading your blog makes me laugh. Some of the outrageous incomes and net worth people claim to have in their early to mid 30s would be impossible if they had spent any time at university. Graduating university at 22 into a salary of 80,000 (extremely high) minus expenses and taxes would give you around 10,000 per year to invest. In ten years you might be looking at 150,000 at most. Either they inherited or they are being less than truthful I suspect the latter
—————————————————————-
Some of us graduated, moved into 80k jobs and saw our incomes grow at 20% a year for a decade. We worked like dogs to do it though. And if you have a couple who followed that path, by mid 30’s, they’re firmly in the top 1% of income earners.

===========================

Well, you will be rewarded with a cardboard particles house in a wasteland (if lucky) and savings destroyed by currency collapse.

We can witness that/the currency collapse in real time:
7 % drop in 1 month against USD, in 2 months against the Euro. constant 52 weeks lowe every day against the Euro.

I can easily see room to go further down 20-30 % from here.

Major currency? No inflation? Sure.

#179 Howard on 03.15.18 at 10:10 am

#176 Tater on 03.15.18 at 9:39 am

#144 Vanreal on 03.15.18 at 12:34 am
Reading your blog makes me laugh. Some of the outrageous incomes and net worth people claim to have in their early to mid 30s would be impossible if they had spent any time at university. Graduating university at 22 into a salary of 80,000 (extremely high) minus expenses and taxes would give you around 10,000 per year to invest. In ten years you might be looking at 150,000 at most. Either they inherited or they are being less than truthful I suspect the latter
—————————————————————-
Some of us graduated, moved into 80k jobs and saw our incomes grow at 20% a year for a decade. We worked like dogs to do it though. And if you have a couple who followed that path, by mid 30’s, they’re firmly in the top 1% of income earners.

————————————–

80k straight out of university? Right. Either you were a corporate finance quant whizkid or had close familial ties high up in a large, profitable corporation.

The best one yet was the public sector worker in Halifax a few months ago who claimed to have $1 million saved at 35. I know public sector parasites are overpaid, but not THAT overpaid.

#180 Howard on 03.15.18 at 10:21 am

Everyone’s circumstances and proclivities are different.

If I had a million at 40 (not likely, it’s only two years away), I could retire quite easily assuming the money is properly invested/diversified/Garth-Turnerized.

Maaaaybe wait to 42/43 to top up the million, just to be on the safe side. Not everyone has the same material wants. And with Trudeau in power, the time is right to reduce one’s income until the Liberal plague of money-stealing locusts goes dormant once more.

#181 Polozified on 03.15.18 at 10:24 am

Wanna know what mills think? Read this ridiculousness:

https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article/neqpqz/its-time-for-canada-to-get-rid-of-the-rrsp

Terrifying highlight: “Banks could help fix this problem by better educating their clients on the TFSA, and encouraging its use as a primary savings account.”

#182 Penny Henny on 03.15.18 at 10:31 am

#19 Niagara Region on 03.14.18 at 6:32 pm
Unlike other regions near Toronto, real estate prices do not yet seem to be decreasing in the Niagara region. I assume prices here will eventually echo the Toronto market and decline, but I wondered if anyone had any insights. For example, might it be the case that real estate in the Niagara Region won’t decline as much as property north of Toronto? (Locals make this claim because a GO-Train to Toronto is supposed to appear here in about 3 years, although I have my doubts about such a project materializing.) Does anyone have any idea when prices on detached homes will significantly drop in the Niagara Region? My guess is that I need to patiently wait another year. I started looking for my first home (seeking a detached character home) in 2014-2015 but jumped out of the market when I saw prices spike. Thank you from a cautious professional in her early 50s.

/////////////////////

Here is a character home for you.
Spend 40-50k to fix it up nice and no worries about prices dropping off. Great neighbourhood too.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/19177333/35-NORWAY-Avenue-Welland-Ontario-L3C3Z9

#183 James on 03.15.18 at 10:36 am

#24 Travis Bickle on 03.14.18 at 6:40 pm

I have to comment on previous post where a guy named “James” commented on Serbian genius Nikola Tesla being “certified loser” in a business sense…

I’m not gonna go ad-hominem on poor James, despite his ignorance more than warrants it, but instead will offer a fact about Tesla and his value system:

In the late 19th century, as the inventor of AC, Tesla was involved in a PR war with Edison who was advocating inferior DC. Naturally (look at our lives together) Tesla won that war and was approached by George Westinghouse and licensed his patents for $60,000 (about $1.5 Million in today’s money), plus 150 shares of stock and a $2.50 royalty per horsepower generated by his AC motor.
As AC power slowly became more widely adopted across the country, Westinghouse happily paid Tesla hundreds of thousands of dollars in royalties each year. In just two years, on his 34th birthday, Tesla had become a full fledged millionaire.
About 17 years later, Westinghouse got in some financial troubles, was on the verge of bankruptcy and asked Tesla to lower or temporarily rescind his royalties in order to allow the Westinghouse’s company to survive.
So Nikola could have given Westinghouse say a five year reprieve from the royalty payments to allow him to get back on its feet… Over the next decade, AC wiped out DC and became the standard electrical system across the world. By $2.50 going to him per each horsepower generated, Tesla would have become the richest person on the planet and the first person with a $1 billion net worth.
However… what did Nikola do when George Westinghouse came to his office and asked for a reprieve???
He tore up the original contract on the spot and relinquished his royalties forever!!! Tesla was grateful to Westinghouse for believing in him when no one else would. He said he valued George’s friendship more than any amount of money!!!

That is Nikola Tesla for you. And that’s why folks like Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Elon Musk, Smoking Man and myself adore the guy…

Folks like “James” have a different priorities… not that anything is wrong with that (as Seinfeld would say ;)
_______________________________________
My intention was only to point out to Little Smoking Man that he is a brash dickhead for maligning Albert Einstein and recently departed Stephan Hawking and promoting Tesla as the all mighty god of science while all others are not to believed. As I pointed out Tesla was a certified genius as was Albert Einstein and Stephan Hawking. Again as you pointed out poor business decisions on Tesla’s part, being nice is OK but business is business. Were here to make money not give it away.

#184 James on 03.15.18 at 10:42 am

My sincere apologizes Garth for missing your birthday.
I would like wish you a belated happy birthday and many more! Many thanks for your words of wisdom and investing.
Oh and one more thing “May you live as long as you want, and never want as long as you live”

#185 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 10:51 am

#180 Howard on 03.15.18 at 10:21 am
Everyone’s circumstances and proclivities are different.

If I had a million at 40 (not likely, it’s only two years away), I could retire quite easily assuming the money is properly invested/diversified/Garth-Turnerized.

Maaaaybe wait to 42/43 to top up the million, just to be on the safe side. Not everyone has the same material wants. And with Trudeau in power, the time is right to reduce one’s income until the Liberal plague of money-stealing locusts goes dormant once more.

————————————

You won’t be able to retire with 1 mil Poloz pesos in Canada. You will need 5 mil +.

You can retire if you convert that 1 mil. to stable currency and move to Costa Rica/Thailand NOW.

—————————-

#181 Polozified on 03.15.18 at 10:24 am
Wanna know what mills think? Read this ridiculousness:

https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article/neqpqz/its-time-for-canada-to-get-rid-of-the-rrsp

Terrifying highlight: “Banks could help fix this problem by better educating their clients on the TFSA, and encouraging its use as a primary savings account.”

——————————

What did I say repeatedly here on this blog about RRSP?

That money ain’t yours folks.

======================

Bottom line: save your money like yesterday.
Even today is probably too late.

Tomorrow is not yours any more. Period.

CAD down 0/66 against USD, 0.4 % against Euro with oil marginally up.

The Poloz peso.

#186 Penny Henny on 03.15.18 at 10:55 am

#56 Garth fan on 03.14.18 at 7:25 pm
“Let’s summarize: you’re 30 and crave retirement in ten years. You think a million dollars at 40 will last you for four decades and educate your children… Stopping work in your forties? To do what? And a million at that age, without additional income, is wholly insufficient. You’ll discover that when you apply at Wal-Mart on your 63rd birthday.”
===

So that Millennial Revolution couple quit in their 30s with $1M in the bank… Did you tell them the same advice??

They have no kids, no house and live on air. ‘Retiring’ was their idea. – Garth

//////////////////////////////

How come no one mentions that they are getting $1700/month from their basement dweller?

#187 LivinLarge-ish on 03.15.18 at 10:59 am

“Sorry Garth. I retired at 38, never looked back, that was in 2004. I have more invested cash now than then and am mortgage free.”…Sorry Rick “20 years to life” in Kingston ISN’T retirement. So, you inherited a wack of cash in 2004…whoopie. Less than one 100th of 1% of Canadians can stop working at 38 based on essentially a max of 20 years of employment (16-36) so either you shovelling the bovine scatology or you had a windfall. Either way, your example is meaningless except to make you feel superior.

#188 Leo Trollstoy on 03.15.18 at 11:07 am

#173 Willy on 03.15.18 at 9:08 am
If a million at 40 isn’t enough to retire on (I know its not!)..

…how’s 1.3M at 53, in 7 years?
Unmarried, no kids. Plus I have a mortgage free 800K house

would be better if u sold the home and had $2.1m and paid $2k/month in rent

#189 Leo Trollstoy on 03.15.18 at 11:11 am

$C dropping like a stone

told ya the reason

$C backed by indebted canadians scraping by to pay their debts

$US backed by strongest economy in the world and pro-biz policies

He’s among those who say that the Ontario government had to act to cool the market when it peaked at more than 30 per cent year-over-year price growth last April

https://www.thestar.com/business/real_estate/2018/02/28/tumbling-toronto-home-sales-signal-a-return-to-normal-market-say-analysts.html

poor homebuyers who purchased at the peak in 2017

ah who am i kiddin, i dont care

#190 Bonne fête! on 03.15.18 at 11:12 am

Garth’s bday
Einstein’s bday
PI day
Loss of Dr Hawking day

A day to be remembered. Bonne fête Garth! (sorry for being late)

#191 Tater on 03.15.18 at 11:13 am

#179 Howard on 03.15.18 at 10:10 am
#176 Tater on 03.15.18 at 9:39 am

#144 Vanreal on 03.15.18 at 12:34 am
Reading your blog makes me laugh. Some of the outrageous incomes and net worth people claim to have in their early to mid 30s would be impossible if they had spent any time at university. Graduating university at 22 into a salary of 80,000 (extremely high) minus expenses and taxes would give you around 10,000 per year to invest. In ten years you might be looking at 150,000 at most. Either they inherited or they are being less than truthful I suspect the latter
—————————————————————-
Some of us graduated, moved into 80k jobs and saw our incomes grow at 20% a year for a decade. We worked like dogs to do it though. And if you have a couple who followed that path, by mid 30’s, they’re firmly in the top 1% of income earners.

————————————–

80k straight out of university? Right. Either you were a corporate finance quant whizkid or had close familial ties high up in a large, profitable corporation.
—————————————————————–
Wouldn’t call myself a whizkid, and I had to wait 8 months after I graduated to land the job, but my trajectory was not uncommon. Any kid out of university who goes into IB, or works on a trading floor can do it.

I’m not saying it’s common, but definitely can be done.

#192 Smoking Man on 03.15.18 at 11:14 am

USDCAD=X – USD/CADCCY in CAD
1.30348

Trudeaunomics.

#193 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 11:17 am

I agree with those that think the cost of retirement varies greatly from one guy to the next. Myself, retirement will be filled with a couple hobbies, a side business, improving our property, road trips, and an occasional international excursion.

I’d guess the wife and I could easily do what we want to do on about 3K per month until our health gave out.

#194 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 11:34 am

#179 Howard on 03.15.18 at 10:10 am
#176 Tater on 03.15.18 at 9:39 am

#144 Vanreal on 03.15.18 at 12:34 am
Reading your blog makes me laugh. Some of the outrageous incomes and net worth people claim to have in their early to mid 30s would be impossible if they had spent any time at university. Graduating university at 22 into a salary of 80,000 (extremely high) minus expenses and taxes would give you around 10,000 per year to invest. In ten years you might be looking at 150,000 at most. Either they inherited or they are being less than truthful I suspect the latter
—————————————————————-
Some of us graduated, moved into 80k jobs and saw our incomes grow at 20% a year for a decade. We worked like dogs to do it though. And if you have a couple who followed that path, by mid 30’s, they’re firmly in the top 1% of income earners.

————————————–

80k straight out of university? Right. Either you were a corporate finance quant whizkid or had close familial ties high up in a large, profitable corporation.

The best one yet was the public sector worker in Halifax a few months ago who claimed to have $1 million saved at 35. I know public sector parasites are overpaid, but not THAT overpaid.
_______________________________________

I find this phenomena interesting too. 33 years old, no mention of any student debt 6 figure incomes, and 300-500K saved up.

If we’re talking about unionized public sector employment on minimal education and DB pension for both persons of a couple unit – then MAYBE it’s believable.

Look at what the MR couple had to do to make a mil in their early 30’s. BIG incomes, zero expenses, cast iron resolve 24/7/365, top level money management, no kids, no house, no cars, no nothing – just 60+ hours per week for both of them. Bust their azzes as their co-workers fell over dead from stress beside them.

Their story is believable, most of these other casual, single, millionaire stories beg several questions.

#195 Newcomer on 03.15.18 at 11:35 am

About the retiring at 40 thing. I think we are giving it the wrong name. If we say, becoming financially independent at 40, it sounds a lot nicer. I’m 55 now and will not be financially independent for another three years, and will have to work like a dog for all of those years. I wish I had started working toward that goal earlier. My mistake was to think about how much money my company was making all the time, instead of focusing on what was happening to with my income. I don’t plan to stop working when I reach financial independence, but I will close my company, move around, and focus on the work I like. If that had been my goal, instead of “retirement” I think I would have done what was necessary to get there earlier.

#196 A J on 03.15.18 at 11:52 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/03/14/in-fundraising-speech-trump-says-he-made-up-facts-in-meeting-with-justin-trudeau/?utm_term=.221b531695c7

“In fundraising speech, Trump says he made up trade claim in meeting with Justin Trudeau”

If you’re Canadian and still defending Trump, you’re a fool.

#197 NoName on 03.15.18 at 11:53 am

@SM and James and Y’all who mentions Nikola Tesla and Albert Anstien but don’t mention enegeiring wizard Charles Proteus Steinmetz, you guys no nothing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Proteus_Steinmetz

Educate your self today before tomorrow according to trumpocalipse will be to late.

#198 For those about to flop... on 03.15.18 at 12:02 pm

Recent Sale Report/ Realtor Assistance Needed.

This townhome in Richmond was on the market for less than purchased for and sold ten days ago.

They paid 993 in March 2016 for a near 30 y.o townhome and even though the assessment came up a fair bit they were having a rough time offloading it,most likely because they got too far ahead of the market before it stalled ,although mainly in detached at this stage.

Well, this is a townhouse and so it will give us a glimpse into something different besides detached and condos for a change.

Probably a Pink Draw but I was surprised by the size of the condo loss a couple of days ago and so let’s see if I can get an answer…

M43BC

27 8051 Ash Street, Richmond paid 993k March 2016 asking 969k

Feb 19:$999,000
Mar 1: $969,900
Change: – 29100.00 -3%

https://www.zolo.ca/richmond-real-estate/8051-ash-street/27

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDA1V1RWNQ==

P.s ,if someone wants to verify these recent sales as well that would be great…

13697 Malabar Avenue, Surrey paid 1.32 August 2016 ass1.17 asking 1.18 sold for?

6438 Marine Drive, West Vancouver paid 1.28 January 2017 ass 1.26m asking 1.38

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a donation.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#199 saskatoon on 03.15.18 at 12:08 pm

what a bunch of immoral, stuck-in-puberty, government losers.

wow!

#200 Vancouver Brit on 03.15.18 at 12:09 pm

They have no kids, no house and live on air. ‘Retiring’ was their idea. – Garth

_____________________________________________

I suppose retiring and traveling the world perpetually is such an unfulfilling life! Those guys have an unbelievable life full of experience and travel, what do most the people on this blog have? A house and kids? Oh the excitement!

Give me Millennial Revolutions life any day over the lives of those who work to 65 to fund their typical, boring, stay at home, look after kids, pay check to pay check lives.

Oh, and if you think they “live on air” you clearly don’t follow their blog. Food is one of their largest expenses as they love it. They just go to places where food costs very little.

And one last note, their $1 million portfolio that supposedly isn’t enough to retire on has grown to a $1.25 million portfolio since they retired a few years ago, while funding their exorbitantly fulfilling life. Give it another 5 years and they might be nearing $1.5 or even $2 million at which point they might decide to return to Canada and settle down, who knows?

To all those people who don’t think you can retire on $1 million, you’re very, very wrong. Go and read a blog about financial independence and you will see you can do it with much less than that even.

But, as I said, not with a house. Or kids. Or without practicing daily frugality. – Garth

#201 For those about to flop... on 03.15.18 at 12:27 pm

Recent Sale Report/Realtor Assistance Needed.

Here is another bit of fresh meat ,with this detached on the Westside of Vancouver going 14 days ago.

Picked up for 2.6 in April 2016 after trying to get the best part of 3 million ,the last time I viewed the listing they were asking 2.65 and would have to eat some of the expenses for breakfast.

Are they Kings,or just paupers…

M43BC

3569 KING EDWARD AVE W VANCOUVER paid 2.6 April 2016 ass 2.72 now asking 2.65

Aug 28:$2,999,000
Dec 24: $2,880,000
Change: – 119000.00 -4%

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/3569-w-king-edward-avenue

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMEhWRQ==

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to make a donation.

Flop For Fox Fund…

http://www.terryfox.org/get-involved/ways-to-give/

#202 Niagara Region on 03.15.18 at 12:32 pm

RE: WHY ARE THE NIAGARA REGION’S REAL ESTATE PRICES NOT DECREASING?

#19 Niagara Region = original post
——————————————-
#128 Pete
Read this report: https://www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/8094565-niagara-s-economic-momentum-second-strongest-in-canada/

it ain’t getting softer in Niagara because it’s still affordable…I bought last year
——————————–
Thanks, Pete, for the interesting article. I am suspicious, though, of claims and stats by Royal Le Page; and the Go-Train has been said to be forthcoming for the entire decade I’ve lived here. If Niagara’s RE is still selling well because it’s affordable doesn’t that imply that Niagara’s RE values will fall once RE in Toronto, Oakville, and Mississauga becomes affordable again? After all, surging Toronto RE prices is what drove up Niagara’s RE prices in the first place. Also, while GE is coming to Welland, I don’t think there is any job growth in St. Catharines and Niagara Falls, only a massive spike in the number of townhouses and condos being built, seemingly for folks largely fleeing real estate prices in and around Toronto or selling to retire.
Do folks have insights about when to expect a decline in RE prices in the Niagara Falls region? (Thank you)

#203 Newcomer on 03.15.18 at 12:43 pm

#173 Willy on 03.15.18 at 9:08 am
If a million at 40 isn’t enough to retire on (I know its not!)..

…how’s 1.3M at 53, in 7 years?
Unmarried, no kids. Plus I have a mortgage free 800K house.

I hope that will cover me!
———–

It all comes down to budgeting. Run the numbers and then try living on them. I know a retired guy who lives on a hobby farm near Montreal. He sells some produce and most months basically doesn’t need to touch a penny of his investment returns, let alone his principal. He is entirely happy. I know another retired guy who tells me that he goes through 40-50K a month. He is likewise not touching his principal and is very happy. Neither would switch with the other. In fact, thinking about it, the guy with a net spending of zero would be the most unhappy if forced to switch. The magic number is probably one of the most personal choices a person can make.

#204 Howard on 03.15.18 at 12:48 pm

#191 Tater on 03.15.18 at 11:13 am

—————————————————————–
Wouldn’t call myself a whizkid, and I had to wait 8 months after I graduated to land the job, but my trajectory was not uncommon. Any kid out of university who goes into IB, or works on a trading floor can do it.

I’m not saying it’s common, but definitely can be done.

———————————-

Uh huh. And what year was that?

Far far far more examples of what you describe in, say, 1996 than today, or even 10 years ago. Entry-level positions have been roundly gutted since the turn of the millennium.

#205 Howard on 03.15.18 at 12:55 pm

#194 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 11:34 am

I find this phenomena interesting too. 33 years old, no mention of any student debt 6 figure incomes, and 300-500K saved up.

If we’re talking about unionized public sector employment on minimal education and DB pension for both persons of a couple unit – then MAYBE it’s believable.

Look at what the MR couple had to do to make a mil in their early 30’s. BIG incomes, zero expenses, cast iron resolve 24/7/365, top level money management, no kids, no house, no cars, no nothing – just 60+ hours per week for both of them. Bust their azzes as their co-workers fell over dead from stress beside them.

Their story is believable, most of these other casual, single, millionaire stories beg several questions.

————————————–

I suppose it’s possible some of the 30-year old rich people on here got lucky on stocks. Maybe they went all-in on Apple at $20 pre-split. But then for everyone who became fabulously wealthy there are plenty who lost everything trying to do likewise. I guess the latter group just doesn’t hang out here?

I recall reading a New York Times article a couple years ago about the difficulty in finding rentals in Manhattan (well, no kidding). It described people in their late-20s casually paying $3000/month USD for a bachelor like it was nothing, and not all of them worked in high finance (some were in PR, marketing, etc). The disconnect left me flummoxed; can mid-level personnel, even in NYC where salaries are reasonably high, truly afford that or did they find some young people whose salaries are topped up by Mom & Dad (but never mentioned it)?

#206 Alistair McLaughlin on 03.15.18 at 12:56 pm

So Devon owes $210K on his mortgage, gets $17K from the stranger in the basement, and this covers the mortgage and all bills?

Even at an insanely low interest rate of 2.15%, $210K amortized over 25 years is $905 per month. $17K per year rental income is $1417 per month. He’s got $512 per month left to cover “bills and taxes”. Likely he’s not declaring the income on the rental. (He seems shocked that income is taxable to begin with so not surprising.)

Sorry, but even if they don’t have cellphones or Internet, squeezing property taxes and utilities into $512 per month doesn’t happen. Even if he is heating his house with candles stolen from the local church and cooking with them too, no way does he keep his “bills” that low. His example, like his retire-by-40 plan, is full of holes.

#207 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 1:01 pm

Man – I can’t wait till retirement.

The weeks would proceed something like this:

Get up at the crack of dawn 2-3 times a week, hook up the boat; pick up buddy and go fishing. Get back, and if the weather is nice; take the Grizzly 700 out for a ride (yeah it’ll still be running great decades from now, it’s a YAMAHA). A couple hours of that would be followed by baking a pie or two, and/or making soup for eating later on. This would be most of the day.

I’d be tending my hopefully enviable veg. garden on some days, scrounging, hauling, and splitting wood on others. Some days would be 1/2-3/4 consumed by some kind of project to improve the property. A 3-4 car garage? Greenhouse? Chicken coup? These projects would not take long if you had all day, every day to work on them.

I’d be having fun buying stuff too. I’ll have way more income than I can spend if all goes well. A nice maybe new truck, a couple ATV’s (wife likes to ride too), complete EOTA trail permits. Wife would probably like a new motorcycle too if she’s still riding then. Maybe for me even a mint Foxbody Mustang just for nostalgia’s sake.

#208 Howard on 03.15.18 at 1:02 pm

#185 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 10:51 am

I live in Europe and get paid in Euros. I’m hoping the CAD crashes to Venezuela levels, then I can move back to Canada and live like a king on the exchange rate (now sitting at 1.60CAD/1EUR and climbing).

Speaking of Poloz, did you catch the latest nonsense from him? Not content to destroy Canada’s savers, he’s now making a foray into social engineering. Apparently he wants the few remaining savers in Canada to pay for other people’s children, and devalue homemakers (be they homemaker moms or dads) in the process.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poloz-child-care-quebec-1.4574195

#209 Vancouver Brit on 03.15.18 at 1:04 pm

But, as I said, not with a house. Or kids. Or without practicing daily frugality. – Garth
_____________________________________________

I agree children would make it hard (though not impossible, people do it), but a house is certainly a possibility outside of Toronto/Vancouver. You can buy a decent pad in many Canadian cities/towns for $250k – $300k, leaving you $700,000 or so to live off of. Without any (or minimal) housing cost, $30,000 a year is plenty to retire on.

Yes, you will have to practice frugality to an extent, but it’s not that hard and you will soon realize it doesn’t really effect your happiness. People don’t need half the things they think they do. Fancy clothes, meals out, daily coffees, cable tv, expensive gadgets, monthly hair appointments, beauty products, multiple cars. It’s all unnecessary for happiness, especially in retirement. Time is more valuable than any of that, and it’s the one thing you can’t get more of, no matter how rich you are. You can always earn more money.

I’m not saying it’s for everyone, but it’s certainly doable for those that are willing to put in the effort. $1 million isn’t enough for most people because they have an unnecessarily expensive lifestyle, but for those willing to escape the rat race and do things a little differently, $1 million is plenty.

Living on 30k per year does not equal happiness. Get a grip. – Garth

#210 Guy in Calgary on 03.15.18 at 1:13 pm

#66 young & foolish on 03.14.18 at 7:54 pm

For some reason people think it is Millenials that are carrying all the debt. This is obviously false.

#211 James on 03.15.18 at 1:24 pm

#197 NoName on 03.15.18 at 11:53 am

@SM and James and Y’all who mentions Nikola Tesla and Albert Anstien but don’t mention enegeiring wizard Charles Proteus Steinmetz, you guys no nothing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Proteus_Steinmetz

Educate your self today before tomorrow according to trumpocalipse will be to late.
__________________________________________
Well if you want to go back further then lets talk about Gustav Kirchhoff. Every electrical equation uses his formula.
BTW you cant spell either. Its Albert Einstein not Anstien and its spelled engineering not enegeiring. Jesus you must have gone to the same school as Little Smoking Man.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Kirchhoff

#212 Kay on 03.15.18 at 1:29 pm

31 years old. Renting a crummy place that spent all winter at 14C. No cable, and the internet is sketchy enough I can’t always get netflix. Roommate hogs the kitchen on weeknights, can only cook on weekends. Finally landed a real job that pays middle class wages ($56k/yr). Will be stuck in the cold apartment for the next year while I pay off student debt (down to $16k now). No CC debt. Car is paid off, there’s nothing in the TFSA or RRSP, have ~$4k in the emergency fund. Tell me again how I’m an entitled shithead? Also what is this nonsense about “bank of Mom and Dad”? They’re asking me for $$ to pay their car payments.

#213 Dave Ahem on 03.15.18 at 1:33 pm

A lot of people saying “Careful in your thirties with a balanced portfolio, the market could go down for five years!!!!”

Who cares? Let it go down for 25 years, you’ll only be 55 or so. If you’re retiring in your 60’s, reinvesting your distributions and continue to contribute, a down market is healthy, normal and is the only way for future growth to occur.

It’s not about timing the market. It’s about time in the market.

#214 Penny Henny on 03.15.18 at 1:36 pm

#202 Niagara Region on 03.15.18 at 12:32 pm
RE: WHY ARE THE NIAGARA REGION’S REAL ESTATE PRICES NOT DECREASING?

Do folks have insights about when to expect a decline in RE prices in the Niagara Falls region? (Thank you)

///////////////////////////////

It depends on the housing stock to which you are referring. The new build prices have risen too much in too short a time so I definitely can see prices for these dropping in the near future. Also to note refugees from Mississauga or Etobicoke are looking at these prices and the price advantage that they had last year has changed considerably.
As far as existing housing stock in mature neighbourhoods don’t expect those prices to drop any time soon. As we know minimum wage has just been increased and these inexpensive homes have become more affordable for those in that category.
Have a look at these two. I’m sure that both are not necessarily your style but the value is there, and I can’t see the prices dropping in the next few years.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/19155905/31-KAREN-Crescent-Welland-Ontario-L3C2Y7

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/19177333/35-NORWAY-Avenue-Welland-Ontario-L3C3Z9

#215 Howard on 03.15.18 at 1:38 pm

Barrie RE prices have really declined in the past month.

Inventory double this time year. Sales a little over half.

New Condo listings up 90% over new listings from previous month.

Selling price to list price is at 98%, so it appears sellers are being realistic (unless there’s a catch in the data I’m not understanding).

https://www.zolo.ca/barrie-real-estate/trends

#216 James on 03.15.18 at 1:39 pm

#192 Smoking Man on 03.15.18 at 11:14 am

USDCAD=X – USD/CADCCY in CAD
1.30348

Trudeaunomics.
_________________________________________
Have to ask why the f#$k you keep commenting here at this God forlorn cold northern country when you bailed for the sunny climes of Cali and you obviously hate Canada since you pretty much insult all of us who still live here and love this country. Why rub salt into the wound, we know where the dollar goes every day. I think we all have that one covered. Does it make you feel better to make others feel worried? So whats your shtick Little Smoking Man? What is your vested interest in Canada? You have commented that you’re never coming back here so what gives. Why do you care about the assholes who run Canada when you have an even larger asshole running your new homeland? With I might, add larger ramifications globally due to his inability to run a country rather than be a daily news item himself about his infidelities with a PORN star.
Anyway why not stay on a blog site more connected with American capitalism and Right Wing American views? So again whats your shtick?

#217 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 1:50 pm

#195 Newcomer on 03.15.18 at 11:35 am
About the retiring at 40 thing. I think we are giving it the wrong name. If we say, becoming financially independent at 40, it sounds a lot nicer. I’m 55 now and will not be financially independent for another three years, and will have to work like a dog for all of those years. I wish I had started working toward that goal earlier.
_______________________________________

Me too. At 45, I’ve already had my fill of working the 9-5. I have a nice white collar job, wife does too. We started saving mid 20’s, but we invested with lackluster resolve – our heart definitely wasn’t in it as it is now.

But, we all make decisions and have priorities. We had kids, decided to educate them privately ($$$), we bought a house and committed to paying it off early (nothing crazy). All this limited our ability to do as much as we might have on the investing front.

If I crunch the numbers, we could have easily fed our investments with enough cash to have retired at 40 with over a mil – but, house and kids at the same time would have been a tough squeeze.

I’d be lucky all things considered to make it to 80 – so that is another reason I’d love to start retirement earlier rather than later.

#218 Mattl on 03.15.18 at 1:54 pm

All these young people retiring on 1mm like the moustache guy are doing it in a bull market. And many of them made a portion of their money on RE – like stache guy. And a lot are working part time – like MMM.

What happens when that million turns into 750k or stalls for a decade. Thinking that the equity party is going to go on forever is as insane as believing RE goes up forever. A balanced will do better then most portfolios in a down market but its fairly safe to assume this bull market will end and we will see some lean years.

What are these retiree’s going to do if we see another 2008 and even a balanced pulls back 15-20%? And how do you take advantage of a down market if you have no income to reinvest?

Kid wants to go to med school, unexpected illness, etc, etc. Oh shoot, need to take a job. As a hiring manager you can guess how interested I am in hiring someone that was previously retired and can’t wait to get retired again….not very.

My wife and I are driving towards a relatively early retirement but having just, maybe enough and having to live like paupers here, or kings in third world countries is not an option for us. Wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.

All that said, early retirement would be amazing and I have enough interests to stay busy. Work is a means to an end for us. That end, however, has to be significant.

#219 Pppap on 03.15.18 at 1:55 pm

#194 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 11:34 am

I find this phenomena interesting too. 33 years old, no mention of any student debt 6 figure incomes, and 300-500K saved up.
If we’re talking about unionized public sector employment on minimal education and DB pension for both persons of a couple unit – then MAYBE it’s believable.
Look at what the MR couple had to do to make a mil in their early 30’s. BIG incomes, zero expenses, cast iron resolve 24/7/365, top level money management, no kids, no house, no cars, no nothing – just 60+ hours per week for both of them. Bust their azzes as their co-workers fell over dead from stress beside them.

____________________________

I agree with you. It is basically what I had to do at their age to reach the 1 mil mark.

A lot of the stories here have “parental” help. That’s what I figured. Actually a lot of internet stories have that.

#220 Long Branch Apprentice on 03.15.18 at 2:01 pm

#184 James

Have you been an arse kisser yer whole life bud?

LOL

Loser.

#221 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 2:16 pm

#134 Ace Goodheart on 03.14.18 at 11:12 pm
This is just too awesome:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/03/14/kathleen-wynne-calls-doug-fords-comments-on-ontario-pot-sales-reckless.html

“Ford has suggested that he’d prefer a free market when it comes to marijuana sales.”

Yeah, like, back in high school the market was completely unregulated. We could sell it anywhere. This is seriously uncool…..

You cannot, cannot make this stuff up. Sometimes life just gives you these little gems.
_______________________________________

Wynne is “right”. You could never run a Crown corp in a free market environment. They’d be broke and out of business in no time. Can’t have their philosophy on compensation and extravagant storefronts when you don’t have artificially high and fixed revenues on the other end.

Government corps only work where there is a monopoly involved, and in every case the customers end up paying at least DOUBLE what the product is actually worth in a free market environment.

That’s why I think Ontario is going to have a hell of a time making enough money on Pot to keep the WCBO afloat. They’ve got competition in this market, dealers are already well established, and they are selling at a low cost, and they can easily be profitable at an even lower cost if need be.

Good luck Wynnie, you’re going to need it.

#222 jess on 03.15.18 at 2:19 pm

mueller supoenas trump organizations business records

#223 MF on 03.15.18 at 2:23 pm

#179 Howard

A close family member is one of those “government parasites” you mentioned.

She, like anyone hired in the last 10 years in the federal public sector, is contract. Her salary is about 45k/year.

Her whole life she has worked her ass off, and she does the same in her current job.

Are all private sector workers the best? Yeah right (I work in the private sector).

Point(s):

-there is good and bad people everywhere
-not all public sectors make 150k/year with complete job security like some delusional people stuck in 1990 here believe
-focus on yourself

MF

#224 not so liquid in calgary on 03.15.18 at 2:23 pm

paying taxes?

how do you think pot-holes get repaired?

how do you think your “free” healthcare gets paid for??

#225 Tater on 03.15.18 at 2:25 pm

#204 Howard on 03.15.18 at 12:48 pm
#191 Tater on 03.15.18 at 11:13 am

—————————————————————–
Wouldn’t call myself a whizkid, and I had to wait 8 months after I graduated to land the job, but my trajectory was not uncommon. Any kid out of university who goes into IB, or works on a trading floor can do it.

I’m not saying it’s common, but definitely can be done.

———————————-

Uh huh. And what year was that?

Far far far more examples of what you describe in, say, 1996 than today, or even 10 years ago. Entry-level positions have been roundly gutted since the turn of the millennium.
—————————————————————–
Graduated in 2001, and started working a “real” job in spring of 2002.

#226 TurnerNation on 03.15.18 at 2:30 pm

Enbridge stock price slaying the Widows & Orphans today.

#yieldhound

#227 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 2:41 pm

#208 Howard on 03.15.18 at 1:02 pm
#185 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 10:51 am

I live in Europe and get paid in Euros. I’m hoping the CAD crashes to Venezuela levels, then I can move back to Canada and live like a king on the exchange rate (now sitting at 1.60CAD/1EUR and climbing).

Speaking of Poloz, did you catch the latest nonsense from him? Not content to destroy Canada’s savers, he’s now making a foray into social engineering. Apparently he wants the few remaining savers in Canada to pay for other people’s children, and devalue homemakers (be they homemaker moms or dads) in the process.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poloz-child-care-quebec-1.4574195

These people are lunatics.

Look at his photo in that article, he looks like on drugs.
Smiling, while destroying wages, life savings, pensions of millions of Canadians.

===============

This is re-post from yesterday,

around 24.15 of this recording:

https://livestream.com/accounts/650767/Panel/videos/123147514

Is it too early to say of these policies (low interest rates are translating into actual economic growth.
(i.e. they do not know what they are doing)

In my view the world can stay with Nominal Negative Interest Rates forever, they are something natural as a means to stimulate the economy.

Then she goes on to explore deeply negative nominal interest rates.

Carolyn Wilkinson, Senior Deputy Governor of BOC

These people are clueless and extremely dangerous,
Negative Nominal Rates with this inflation? Really?
I am not sure she believes herself but her facial tics while speaking about that are interesting.

======================

Stay in Europe as long as you can.

#228 Smoking Man on 03.15.18 at 2:44 pm

James

My Shtick. In order of importance.

Triggering radical leftie communists so the world can judge for them selves how insane they are. Proff the way you did it up top.

Stalin and Hitler were lefties.

Offering market calls when I feel like it for a few palls on here.

Bragging about my fiction novel who’s predictions from two years ago are coming true right now.
Unfortunately I can’t provide a link.

If you ever come accross it. DO NOT READ. You can’t handle it.

#229 not so liquid in calgary on 03.15.18 at 2:45 pm

the oldest mils are just turning 40-41 y/o

#230 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 2:47 pm

Fun Boy Three – The Lunatics (have taken over the Asylum)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRNYqsMIbg0

#231 ALFRED E. NEUMAN on 03.15.18 at 2:49 pm

#219 Long Branch Apprentice on 03.15.18 at 2:01 pm
#184 James
Have you been an arse kisser yer whole life bud?
LOL
Loser.

********************************************

Don’t worry yourself about it, LBA .. I think James was just being nice, actually

But there’s always one cynic in every crowd who likes to snipe and yep, its usually the kia apprentice

#232 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 3:01 pm

#213 Dave Ahem on 03.15.18 at 1:33 pm
A lot of people saying “Careful in your thirties with a balanced portfolio, the market could go down for five years!!!!”

Who cares? Let it go down for 25 years, you’ll only be 55 or so. If you’re retiring in your 60’s, reinvesting your distributions and continue to contribute, a down market is healthy, normal and is the only way for future growth to occur.

It’s not about timing the market. It’s about time in the market.
________

Excellent.

Playing around with an online compound interest calculator will clearly display how time is as potent as big deposits are. Years 30-40 rock.

Our portfolio is probably unique as it was started at 25 years old, and has been contributed to every month since then without fail, no matter what happened in the world or markets.

The uniqueness is in how low our total contributions are compared to the total value of the portfolio. That is the power of time and compounding in a tax free environment.

We invested right through the .com, telecom, 9/11, GFC crashes without a hitch and no regrets.

If you aren’t rich, and/or don’t expect to become rich – time is all you’ve really got – if your sights are set on 7 figures.

#233 BillyBob on 03.15.18 at 3:16 pm

#215 James on 03.15.18 at 1:39 pm
#192 Smoking Man on 03.15.18 at 11:14 am

USDCAD=X – USD/CADCCY in CAD
1.30348

Trudeaunomics.
_________________________________________
Have to ask why the f#$k you keep commenting here at this God forlorn cold northern country when you bailed for the sunny climes of Cali and you obviously hate Canada since you pretty much insult all of us who still live here and love this country. Why rub salt into the wound, we know where the dollar goes every day. I think we all have that one covered. Does it make you feel better to make others feel worried? So whats your shtick Little Smoking Man? What is your vested interest in Canada? You have commented that you’re never coming back here so what gives. Why do you care about the assholes who run Canada when you have an even larger asshole running your new homeland? With I might, add larger ramifications globally due to his inability to run a country rather than be a daily news item himself about his infidelities with a PORN star.
Anyway why not stay on a blog site more connected with American capitalism and Right Wing American views? So again whats your shtick?

===================================

Just wanted to say I enjoy your “angry little man” schtick, it amuses me to see you continually owned by Smoking Man.

I assume it’s all an act, no one could be as genuinely angry about nothing as you always seem to be…? If it’s real, then man, SM really IS the king! hahah!

#234 Glad I don't own in BC on 03.15.18 at 3:18 pm

#3 didn’t say they want to retire in his 40s, only that both of them would like to work part time by then, and right now he has an opportunity to stay home with 2 kids, with convenient part time work after the wife gets home. That’s not easy to find. Daycares can run $1000 – $1500/m per kid depending where you live, so that part is a no brainer.

The problem is with betting their hopes that the market will keep on giving, and 10 years is a pretty short window. 1 mil is not enough to retire at 40. Inflation will kill you. And they grossly underestimate basic costs of raising kids, that’s not even considering paying for their education, etc… If I were him, I’d take the part time work, figure out if he can do this college study remotely, or postpone it and prep to go work full time once the kids are old enough.

Saying that, not everyone needs to live an exuberant lifestyle to be happy, so how much you need in retirement is truly relative. The folks who are saying they want 3-10mil, really? I think it’s all about balance. And didn’t Garth mention that you can have more money, but you can never have more time?

#235 New World on 03.15.18 at 3:18 pm

@217 Mattl: That money moustache guy was lucky more than anything. He entered the job market at the perfect time to make big $$$ in a boom, then finally had enough for a house when real estate crashed hard. Plus he abandoned his family and friends to live in a cheap town. And he’s Canadian, so he can always come running back for healthcare, unlike the Americans he preaches to.

He could not repeat that strategy today and any American who tries to quit their job to move to a small town, have kids and be unemployed without access to universal healthcare is an idiot.

#236 Alistair McLaughlin on 03.15.18 at 3:29 pm

@ #12 Kay, nice to hear some real numbers from what I think is a more typical 30-something existence.
I urge you to pay down that student debt ASAP (sounds like you are planning to). Being debt-free should be your top priority for the next year. You’ll have more flexibility then, and you’ll never want to be in debt again. Just one more winter of 14C and cold sandwiches. Don’t take your eye off the ball now.

Oh, and tell your parents to get stuffed. You finally get your first real job and their reaction is to ask you for help paying for their car???? Let me guess, they like the casino, they have credit card debt too, and at least one of them smokes?

Sounds like you got your head screwed on straight kid. Things will get better. Don’t let the mistakes of others drag you down.

#237 Gravy Train on 03.15.18 at 4:00 pm

#179 Howard on 03.15.18 at 10:10 am
“I know public sector parasites [emphasis added] are overpaid….”

Which public servants are parasites, again? Firefighters? Police officers? Paramedics? Nurses? Doctors? Soldiers? Teachers? Librarians? Bus drivers? Urban planners? Waste collectors? (And so on.)

Sorry, Garth, but I think you need to do a better job of screening these comments! :(

#238 SimplyPut7 on 03.15.18 at 4:01 pm

Story #1
I choose Burlington over Hamilton any day, easier commute to GTA jobs and closer to family, which may mean affordable babysitting/daycare from nearby family members (reducing monthly expenses for childcare).

Story #3
‘Okay, blog, please tell me this is not how most 30-year-olds think.’

Garth, you were the one who made it seem possible to retire in your 40s on a million and travel the world.

They got this idea from you.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/house-investment-wealth-1.3716641

There are some people in their 30s and 40s hoping that if the Conservatives at the federal level get back in power, they may increase the TFSA back up to the Harper level of $11,000 a year, allowing them to retire early as a TFSA millionaire.

A million in the TFSA would significantly reduce the amount of money needed to retire as the monthly cash flow required to cover expenses, would be reduced by the amount of taxes that would be needed to be paid as a result of living off of income from a TFSA versus a taxable source of income such as a company pension, RRSP, CPP or OAS.

Wouldn’t living on a million be more plausible then? Especially if you sell your city home for a profit (tax free), live outside of the GTA and YVR and add the profit from the house to any room that’s left in your RRSP, TFSA or taxable investment accounts?

At least, that’s my retirement goal. I may not retire very early, but there are many people in the GTA, who complain about being house rich and cash poor who are close to retirement and could easily solve their retirement problems by moving out of town.

#239 jess on 03.15.18 at 4:17 pm

Slovak Government Resigns Over Slain Journalist Crisis
Political crisis is triggered by slayings of investigative journalist and his fiancée
Associated Press
March 15, 2018 2:32 p.m. ET

BRATISLAVA, Slovakia—Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico and his government resigned Thursday as a way out of the political crisis triggered by the slayings of an investigative journalist and his fiancée.

========
At the time of his death, he was working with my organization on an investigation into the ‘Ndrangheta, a powerful and dangerous Italian criminal group that has infiltrated many countries around the world, including Slovakia.

…”Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico called Jan and his colleagues(journalists) whores. The Czech prime minister held up an automatic weapon with the words “for journalists” written on it.

#240 Stan Brooks on 03.15.18 at 4:18 pm

#215 James on 03.15.18 at 1:39 pm
#192 Smoking Man on 03.15.18 at 11:14 am

USDCAD=X – USD/CADCCY in CAD
1.30348

Trudeaunomics.

====================

James, you are mistaking obedience for love.

Grow up.

You should not be just worried, you should be in outright panic.

‘We have survived as species only thanks to our paranoia.’

Nassim Taleb, the author of the ‘black swan’.
You might just have the IQ to understand it, if you read the book.

#241 IHCTD9 on 03.15.18 at 4:22 pm

#234 New World on 03.15.18 at 3:18 pm
@217 Mattl: That money moustache guy was lucky more than anything. He entered the job market at the perfect time to make big $$$ in a boom, then finally had enough for a house when real estate crashed hard. Plus he abandoned his family and friends to live in a cheap town. And he’s Canadian, so he can always come running back for healthcare, unlike the Americans he preaches to.

He could not repeat that strategy today and any American who tries to quit their job to move to a small town, have kids and be unemployed without access to universal healthcare is an idiot.
________________________________

Pretty much. He was lucky like most early gen X’s were. Went to school when it was still cheap. Got a job when good jobs were available. Bought houses just before prices went up and rates went down. Got in multiple decades of single employer ladder climbing before job loss. Booming economy benefits from 2000-2007 etc. Dual Citizenship benefits also for MMM.

He can preach the methodology, but no one in the Western World will achieve the results he got. His family income was WELL into the 1%er zone. He was doomed to do awesome no matter what he did.

He essentially turbocharged an already excellent financial situation. Kudos for that at least.

The MMM blog reportedly brought in 300-400K annually at its peak too.

#242 Bytor the Snow Dog on 03.15.18 at 4:29 pm

Garth sez:

Living on 30k per year does not equal happiness. Get a grip. – Garth
—————————————–
Exactly! How would one afford lattes, limos, and Grey Poupon on that!

Timmies will be haute cuisine. – Garth

#243 Gravy Train on 03.15.18 at 4:33 pm

#221 jess on 03.15.18 at 2:19 pm
“[M]ueller su[b]poenas [the T]rump organization[’]s business records[.]”

Do we have an office pool as to the day and time that Trump will be subpoenaed? :)

#244 New World on 03.15.18 at 5:18 pm

@#240 IHTDC9: what I find most galling is his smug attitude towards people who are employed. As if they are idiots for not copying him and moving 1000 miles away to some cheap little town just because they hated their old job. Easy to be smug when you’ve got a Canadian passport in your back pocket. If he needed it, he would have come running back here to demand and receive medical care from a system he wasn’t paying into.

#245 Leo Trollstoy on 03.15.18 at 5:20 pm

#196 A J on 03.15.18 at 11:52 am
If you’re Canadian and still defending Trump, you’re a fool

Ppl who read the WaPo and don’t understand negotiations are also fools

#246 Leo Trollstoy on 03.15.18 at 5:23 pm

#215 James on 03.15.18 at 1:39 pm

#triggered

#247 Leo Trollstoy on 03.15.18 at 5:24 pm

Mueller gorging at the taxpayer trough

Nothing will happen to Trump, except he will be richer post-POTUS

Easy $

#248 LivinLarge on 03.15.18 at 5:26 pm

“Living on 30k per year does not equal happiness. Get a grip. – Garth” well yea but $30k net like just $30k divs can deliver a surprisingly comfortable life if you happen to live in the boonies. It helps if you grew up in the boonies and know what it’s like there.

There are hours of delight in watching corn pollinate. – Garth

#249 Howard on 03.15.18 at 5:35 pm

Okay, my “parasites” comment was beyond the pale. I apologize. Some, perhaps even most, public sector workers are not analogous to invasive microscopic organisms. Or cow birds (look them up, very interesting survival strategy based on parasitism).

But, Gravy Train, anyone who has lived in Toronto would not speak highly of TTC workers or garbage collectors, particularly those who witnessed the marxist David Miller years.

I also think the politicization of the public sector into a Liberal-left lockstep voting bloc doesn’t engender much sympathy from those of differing ideological tendencies.

#250 Vancouver Brit on 03.15.18 at 5:36 pm

Living on 30k per year does not equal happiness. Get a grip. – Garth
__________________________________________

Never said it did! I just said spending money on “things” people don’t need doesn’t make them happy.

And FYI I just checked, last year, excluding the cost of renting, my wife and I lived on $37,000. $10,000 of that was travel. So yeah, $30,000 is definitely doable if you own your house.

#251 Grey Dog on 03.15.18 at 5:43 pm

212. Kay
You need to establish serious boundaries for your parents. Begging you to pay their car payments is a very serious request. Folks I know were having a similar problem, however, further research showed they were paying $1500/month on leasing fees, we’ll help you out but there is a line (we drive our cars for 15 years into the ground) and THEY NEED a NEW CAR every 2 years??? Moral of that story certainly fill their kitchen cupboards and freezer with real food, but never, never, ever give them money, you will be treated like low hanging fruit for the rest of your life. Never ever co-sign anything for them. Go to the library and have them read all the Gail Vaz Oxlade books, she is real good at kicking folks into seeing reality.

If your single living with a roommate that is just tolerable have you considered getting a part time job? Be really thankful you have got the brains to learn from Garth’s blog and improve your life, you seem like you’re on the right path.

#252 Kay on 03.15.18 at 7:06 pm

@#235 Alistair – Thanks, it’s been a rough haul to get here. Most pfinance stuff is for people who already have money. Hard to find info for someone who came from rural poverty, spent a decade in urban poverty before finally getting somewhere.

Things are looking up, which is good. I’m getting tired of the grind. Kids are flatly out of the question, and I have no freaking clue how some people afford cottages/boats/cruises. Currently working in IT, a salary position, and asking lots of questions about this “consulting” thing.

@250 Grey Dog You’re right, I’ll need to be firm. My parents don’t even look at the prices of things before they absolutely need them. So they expect that a car now will cost $15k brand new off the lot, which is what they paid years ago when they bought the Sunfire. They won’t spend money on maintenance, because they never have cash on hand, and they resent every penny the car costs towards the end of its lifespan. But they don’t save enough to replace it. They avoid debt (thankfully) but they don’t save either. Lots of denial, lots of “I tithe so God will take care of everything”.

Same story with my tuition: my parents honestly believed that a year’s tuition and rent in the city was $2k – the same as when they went 20 years earlier. They believed when I was working min wage ($1300/month) that I was making $3k/month.

I’m overcorrecting for their mistakes. Tallying up the cost of their retirement homes now, though it won’t be an issue for another 20 years. Eyeing my younger cousins, who are in a worse position financially than the one I started from. Not sure where I’m going to draw which lines in the sand.

#253 LivinLarge on 03.15.18 at 7:19 pm

“There are hours of delight in watching corn pollinate. – Garth’…plus a road trip to the livestock auction each week fills an entire day.

#254 AGuyInVancouver on 03.15.18 at 8:38 pm

#239 jess on 03.15.18 at 4:17 pm
Slovak Government Resigns Over Slain Journalist Crisis
Political crisis is triggered by slayings of investigative journalist and his fiancée
Associated Press
March 15, 2018 2:32 p.m. ET

BRATISLAVA, Slovakia—Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico and his government resigned Thursday as a way out of the political crisis triggered by the slayings of an investigative journalist and his fiancée.

========
At the time of his death, he was working with my organization on an investigation into the ‘Ndrangheta, a powerful and dangerous Italian criminal group that has infiltrated many countries around the world, including Slovakia.

…”Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico called Jan and his colleagues(journalists) whores. The Czech prime minister held up an automatic weapon with the words “for journalists” written on it.
_ _ _
Sad to see the former Iron Curtain countries sliding back into their traditional cesspool ways.

#255 Gravy Train on 03.15.18 at 9:58 pm

#228 Smoking Man on 03.15.18 at 2:44 pm
“Triggering radical leftie [sic] communists so the world can judge for them selves [sic] how insane they are. Proff [sic] the way you did it up top.

“Stalin and Hitler were lefties.”

You lack any understanding of political systems and world history! Stalin was a totalitarian communist, but Hitler was a far-right fascist (or radical authoritarian nationalist)!

And you still don’t know what a lefty is! A lefty is a person “professing views usually characterized by desire to reform or overthrow the established order especially in politics and usually advocating change in the name of the greater freedom or well-being of the common man.” A lefty has “a radical as distinguished from a conservative position.”

By the above definition of lefty, you and Trump are lefties! The Republican Party is no longer the party of Lincoln; it’s the party of Trump!

#256 Big Kahuna on 03.15.18 at 10:25 pm

#255Gravy-contrary to what you have been told in school, Hitler was the leader of the National Socialist Party (NAZI)-a rigid LEFT WING ideology. Big government in total control of everything.

#257 Barb on 03.16.18 at 12:10 am

Happy Birthday, Mr. T.

Pisces Man Likes and Dislikes:

“He is caring, tender and sensitive, a kind of man who nurtures his feminine side and because of this he has the ability to listen, compassionately approach his partner and understand the feelings of everyone around him. His biggest minus is his inconsistency and his unpredictable character. No one knows what he will feel tomorrow, and his relationships could fall apart in a day, without any obvious reason.”

It seems we know you better than the stars do…

#258 Stock Picker on 03.16.18 at 2:19 am

#185 Stan..a million Canadian is less than you think. It’s falling like a stone in Thailand….about 20% since Trudeau was elected. Embarrassing that the Thai Baht is stronger than the $C….but that a the way it is. Buy USD for what’s coming under Trudeau induced capital flight out of Canada. The people I talk to say the loon will be $1.60/1.70 before Trudeau is finished. Same with stock picks ….all in on EM and US..zero Canada.

#259 Gravy Train on 03.16.18 at 7:07 am

#256 Big Kahuna on 03.15.18 at 10:25 pm
“#255Gravy-contrary to what you have been told in school, Hitler was the leader of the National Socialist Party (NAZI)-a rigid LEFT WING ideology. Big government in total control of everything.”

Uh, no! Even the German Bundestag agrees that the National Socialist German Workers’ Party was a right-wing extremist, chauvinistic, nationalistic, anti-Semitic party.

Here: Read up on far-right politics. I don’t have time to school you and that muttonhead, Smoking Man.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics

#260 Alex S on 03.16.18 at 8:58 am

Garth I’m just a 20-something but I’ve been following along and trying to plan my life and finances as logically as possible. I was very surprised to see you scoff at the idea of retirement on $1-million though. Do you not subscribe to the 4% rule? So a couple that can live comfortable on $40K/year after tax (my family is doing that now) would need to have a liquid portfolio of exactly $1-million to be able to safety withdraw $40K/year for at least 30 years according to the Trinity Study. I know many people want more than $40K/year at retirement but is there some other flaw I’m missing?

#261 Victor V on 03.16.18 at 9:43 am

Sold! Minimalist condo goes for $135,000 below asking

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/03/minimalist-luxury-condo-290-adelaide-west/

#262 Big Kahuna on 03.16.18 at 4:17 pm

#259Gravy-the National Socialists were about BIG GOVERNMENT and government control of society-if you can’t see that, what can you see?

#263 Gravy Train on 03.16.18 at 6:15 pm

#262 Big Kahuna on 03.16.18 at 4:17 pm
“#259Gravy-the National Socialists were about BIG GOVERNMENT and government control of society-if you can’t see that, what can you see?”

Do you not understand the difference between fascism and communism? If you don’t, I’m starting to understand why we have a wing nut like Trump as POTUS. But seriously you should take a course in political science—and take Smokey with you! :)