The resistance

So far the T2 gang has created a new tax bracket for big-money earners, gutted the TFSA contribution limit by half, ended income-splitting for entrepreneurs and will (in the coming budget) whack doctors and the self-employed who sit on retained earnings. Notice a pattern?

Accountants and others who have no life and worry about this stuff (me) fear the Libs will also raise the capital gains inclusion rate before the next election and diddle with dividends. Canadians making a little over $200,000 now pay half in tax, and the business tax rate could be 70% for those who do not take cover.

All this has happened while Americans cut the corporate levy by 40% and reduce middle-class taxes by up to half while retaining mortgage-interest deductibility and letting companies write off expenses over months, not decades. Meanwhile American families pay 50% less for a house, on average, than do we beavers.

So how can we be so out of step with the guys next door?

The differences between the two countries are legion – just look at health care, for example. But it really boils down to one thing: Canadians lack confidence. We elect guys who promise more support, more structure and bigger government. So, we need higher taxes – which voters want other people to pay.

The evidence is all around us. It’s in the support Bill Morneau enjoyed during his attack on entrepreneurs and the self-employed. It’s in the obsession with ‘safe’ residential real estate as opposed to ‘risky’ financial assets. It’s certainly there in an historic number of young adults refusing to leave the parental womb until all risk is wiped away. It’s in the Bank of Mom handing over down payments, helping to game the system. And this week, in news of parents buying investment real estate for their school-aged children. Yuck.

Voters want safe. As the Millennials become the dominant group and foist their risk-shunning shared-society values on everyone, expect more of the above. There’s a major anti-corporatism unleashed now, altering the face of commerce. Ride-sharing vs the taxi business. Room-sharing vs hotels. Cryptocurrencies vs central bankers. Social media vs corporate news. At the centre is the refusal to accept that an income disparity should exist, with the 1% and the 99% drifting ever-further apart upon an ocean of inequality.

Trudeau has bragged there are no traditional, core values in Canada, and this place will become the ‘first post-national state’. It’s the ultimate anti-Trump stance, a finger in the eye of America where rich and risk are both admired, and diversity’s a dirty word. So, Congress can pass an act that lowers taxes for the wealthy, their heirs, investors, self-employed and corporations, and get away with it. In Canada we spent the summer debating if a plumber can sprinkle income to his wife, while the prime minister’s family took an exotic vacation paid for a billionaire lobbyist. And the Mills love him. His signature act will be to legalize weed.

So, these are seminal times. 2018 promises to accelerate the war between the wealth-hoarding Boomers and the moister-barbarians at the gate. Anyone with money probably won’t like the next Morneau budget, which is setting the groundwork for October 21, 2019 when Justin faces Jagmeet. If you think T2 is a lefty now, just wait.

Of course, this is a pathetic yet non-judgmental blog. (Scotch is already legal, so it’s all good.) Social justice is cool, but being financially independent is a more achievable goal. There’s no shame in success, no apology to be made for earning big money and wanting to keep it. Capricious taxation is not the prerogative of any politician or government, and you have the legal right to avoid paying more than your legislated fair share.

So in the spirit of constructive rebellion, and a ringing defence of the downtrodden affluent, (some of whom may actually be old, white, hetero guys) tune in tomorrow for a Tax Trash Manifesto – 10 Things the Prime Minister does Not Want you to Know.

Bring a helmet.

179 comments ↓

#1 For those about to flop... on 12.26.17 at 4:13 pm

Pink Snow falling in Vancouver.

These guys have a small amount of wiggle room left but I have a feeling this one will go for less.

Picked up at the peak in April 2016 ,there are properties going for more on main thoroughfares further east due to land assembly for condos.

Nothing of that nature happening around this area and so they will be hoping that a developer swoops in but there are better blocks available.

Could be a long grind…

M43BC

3569 KING EDWARD AVE W VANCOUVER

Aug 28:$2,999,000
Dec 24: $2,880,000
Change: – 119000.00 -4%

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/3569-w-king-edward-avenue

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMEhWRQ==

#2 Gasbag Boomer on 12.26.17 at 4:14 pm

Moister-barbarians. Too funny, I love it!

#3 TurnerNation on 12.26.17 at 4:15 pm

The Boomers are selling, the Boomers are selling!

In severe proximity with each other these three properties tip the price scale well into the CMHC no-go zone. (That’s like 95 bitcoins man).
With each, eagle views over the fabled Rouge River’s fetidness.

A trio of moulding mausoleum-like manses which must have matriculated last, well well into the last century.

Could you imagine a tatted up Gen X or Mill raving (or saving) – on IG? Dude yo you visiting gramps’ place again?

Who then will buy? Or raze and phase:

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18858400/264-TAYLOR-RD-Toronto-Ontario-M1C2R6-Rouge-E10
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18440487/326-DYSON-RD-Pickering-Ontario-L1W2M9-Rosebank
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18929504/312-DYSON-RD-Pickering-Ontario-L1W2M9-Rosebank

#4 OttawaMike on 12.26.17 at 4:17 pm

Here’s a piece that does a good job of splainin why mike are pissed:
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-baby-boomers-became-the-most-selfish-generation-2016-11?op=1

#5 Lost...but not leased on 12.26.17 at 4:20 pm

Phhyrrzttt…….and happy boxing day

#6 Nick on 12.26.17 at 4:24 pm

As a millenial high income earner with a lot of savings, Canada is going down the shitter. If things get much worse I’m heading south.

There is only so much crap I can deal with before I’m slaving for the “privilege” of living here. Bad enough our cost of living here is crazy high. People can live much better elsewhere in the world. These politicians need to realize they can’t milk the next generation for all they are worth. We have options now.

#7 West Coaster on 12.26.17 at 4:35 pm

So what is the T2 government’s official position on private corporations holding funds to make passive investments unrelated to the company? Is the gov still trying to quash such rights?

#8 Lost...but not leased on 12.26.17 at 4:38 pm

Quote:

“Trudeau has bragged that there are no traditional, core values in Canada, and this nation will become the ‘first post-national state’.”

For New Years resolution….. I hope Canadians wake up to this Manchurian Candidate nightmare called Turdeau… aka T2….fruit of T1 loins.

T1 set in motion the collapse, setting the deficit to record heights while concurrently fostering divisive policies that to this day leave Canada a nation in “name only”.

T2 agenda is very transparent. He(and T1) were great admirers of Communism and the way in which a single person can turn policy on a dime(……… as well as the T1 ‘s 1982 Constitution which effectively neutered Parliament and put the true power into hands of political appointees aka Judges).

T2’s Canada will end up a (2) class society….the 99% will be pitted against each other in a race to the bottom..while T2, Moroneau and other 1% silver- spoon ilk will rule from on high.

IMHO…its Unfixable….Canada is toast…plan accordingly.

#9 60 to 50 cent loonie? on 12.26.17 at 4:41 pm

I want to leave Toronto for good by next year, but will Poloz pull the plug and cause our Loonie to become another Poloz Peso?

I was not happy when the Loonie fell from 80 cents to 77 cents. I think Poloz will tank the Loonie to US 50 cents in order to save the real estate bubble in Toronto.

#10 NoName on 12.26.17 at 4:48 pm

Now that resistance was mention…

“Bella Ciao” in 9 Languages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nSF40smtgw

#11 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 4:53 pm

Bring a helmet.
Sh.t storm coming.

1. Global freeze in god forgotten Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/environment-canada-extreme-cold-warnings-1.4464711

But hey, you have a carbon tax/on global freeze.

2. Incompetent, corrupt, predatory, elitist government
– can’t fix a simple payroll system for years.
– introduces different set of rule – one for the elite, one for you. No loopholes for you, only for the uber rich liberal elitists.
No french villa/numbered corporations/selling stocks at the right time not qualified as insider trading/laws that benefits your company/trust funds/lack of blind trust for you, only for them.

Private vacations paid for by government help recipient ‘foundations’. No corruption or repayment necessary.
for 20 % of this you will be in jail and killed by the tax authorities.

Tax prosecution for you not for them
– higher CPP, income taxes.
– killing of the small businesses reneging on promises, lying that they are going after the wealthy while they penalize doctors and contractors/plumbers.

3. Set of hungry oligopolies in finance/banking/insurance/retail/telecom.

Risk offloading to the public/CHMC, guaranteed profit for them. Price fixing schemes – gas, bread.

NO GUILTY found. Now they will divert attention towards small businesses and claim that by spending over 1 billion extra a year on CRA while ‘recovering’ few millions by harassing taxpayers is a ‘success’ and fair.

And all this in just 2 years.

We have seen nothing yet.

They can’t expropriate RRSPs you say? Just watch it out.

4. Corrupt media and real estate cartel.

It beats me how this country still functions.
It won’t be for long. Hedge accordingly.
And take cover!

#12 Rental property math on 12.26.17 at 5:03 pm

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/buying-properties-for-school-aged-kids-comes-with-pitfalls-experts-warn/article37427082/?campaign_id=A100

In that article brad lamb says buy a 450k condo today and it’ll be worth 3 million in 15 years.
13.5% annualized returns. That’s one hell of an opinion.
On a side note I just renewed one of my mortgages. 2.84% on a 5 year fixed. Took about 10 minutes total. 5 minutes phone call, signed a few pages emailed to me. Didn’t ask any questions. Just seen that I made all my payments and all is well. No need to go shop around, no need for any stress tests. Too much fear mongering on this blog regarding mortgage renewals.

#13 Hans on 12.26.17 at 5:03 pm

@ TurnerNation

Not to go all conspiracy theory on you but with each of those listings…..you get Iodine pills in the mail once a year due to the proximity to the aging powerplant in Pickering (currently in top 10 ancient nuke power plants in the world – built with Chernobyl era safety technology – hmmmm…..no thanks!).

I’d pass and put that $1.3 mill to work elsewhere, out of the “glow-green” zone.

#14 MF on 12.26.17 at 5:15 pm

Couple things,

Didn’t the majority of people/voters and businesses tell the T2 gang to go screw themselves with their tax changes? I wouldn’t say there is an anti business atmosphere here since that was the case.

Secondly, I believe it’s actually because Canada is safe and stable that people are more risk averse. We don’t have to worry about what most of humanity does (corruption, food shortages, typhoons, disease, violence etc.). Stability is what humans crave. I don’t see this as a bad thing.

#6 Nick

I assume you are roughly my age (34). The last thing we should be doing is running. That’s for cowards. If you believe in a different political strategy, then try campaigning to get the T2 morons out. The grass is never greener.

MF

#15 TurnerNation on 12.26.17 at 5:16 pm

P.s. enjoying Bandit’s Instagram feed (the guy he drags around snaps photos).
A rolling ethnography.
..
USA retail stocks doing very well: casual dining like DIN, CAKE, CHUY. And GOOS, FND.

Usa is rocking. Being Canadian means maxing out at least one credit card this season?! Tfsa soon

#16 Craig on 12.26.17 at 5:17 pm

“Americans cut corporate levy by 40% and reduce middle-class taxes by up to half”

The US debt clock is currently at 20.6 trillion and rising. Trumps drastic tax measures are all about gaining votes and kicking the can down the road. Remember this is a guy who filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection 6 times .

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

#17 Zapstrap on 12.26.17 at 5:18 pm

It’s like a rancher friend of mine said of a wolf pack that was killing his livestock … they are dead, they just don’t know it yet.

#18 Linda on 12.26.17 at 5:18 pm

Is Jagmeet actually twirling his mustachio? That used to be a sign of ‘the bad guy’ in the silent movie era. The villain always twirled his mustachios, usually as he was tying the heroine to the train track:)

Regarding the current ‘us vs. them’ meme – I’m all for equality & fairness. However, I fail to see how it is ‘fair’ to take from those who have sacrificed & saved (or toiled darn hard) & give to those who have less. That is what charity is for & enforced charity is not going to inspire anyone to give of their own free will. If anything, I expect to see ‘the wealthy’ fleeing the country if this ‘attax on wealth’ meme continues!

#19 Randy on 12.26.17 at 5:19 pm

Think you nailed it Garth. This is where the Tigers Eat their Young.

#20 fancy_pants on 12.26.17 at 5:19 pm

a belated Merry Christmas Garth,

Too bad some things won’t pause for the jolly guy in the red suit, a baby in a manger, or materialism at the mall; in particular the gears of socialism/taxation press on …

https://globalnews.ca/news/3933295/doctor-shortage-leads-to-temporarily-closures-at-some-n-s-hospitals-over-holiday-season/

… physician shortage coming soon to a town near you. Broke your leg over the holidays? meh, grab a joint and chill for a few days, doctor will be back next Monday. If you are really concerned about a permanent limp due to the extended wait, just get your neighbour to paper mache you a cast.

#21 Loonie Doctor on 12.26.17 at 5:21 pm

It is interesting watching this play out. Looking at the income disparity curve from Ryan’s post a few days ago, the slope of the curve really takes off for the top 5th and and 5% even more. Thinking on it and looking around, there is a fair bit of class mobility in Canada for those in the under a couple hundred thousand dollars income per year. We have affordable post secondary education, a public school system, and a strong social net. It is not a perfect meritocracy by any means, but better than most of the world and in just about any time period in history.

The thing is, the top 1% in Canada is income around 225K. That is alot, but the real driver of the rich getting richer is not likely this upper income working class (doctors like me, professionals, successful small businessmen/women) – it is more the .1% aristocracy like Mourneau and Trudeau. It is interesting because all of the changes so far don’t touch that group. It just hits those just below it and makes the chance to leap that chasm to join the .1% almost impossible.

#22 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 5:22 pm

These are not seminal times.
Seminal times were 15-20 years ago when the elitists and oligopolies took over Canada.
Now the consequences are becoming obvious despite the lies and the attempts to hide the truth.

J2 and Wild bill are pathetic and incompetent at best.
Or deadly evil if there is slight trace of competence and sanity in their actions.

My thesis:
1. There is no fixing of this, things will become much, much worse.
2. Prepare for an exit including exporting savings and investments while you can.
3. Freedom limitations will be enforced down on your throat.
fairness and truth police are just the beginning.
No law, but rules, defined by THEM.

Rule of corrupted elite requires brainless and brainwashed population, not critically thinking citizens.

We are already there.

The sign on the gates of hell reads:
‘Abandon all hope – You Who Enter Here.’

And in my mind hell is frozen, not hot. You can experience one flavor of it by simply going outside.

#23 a dee on 12.26.17 at 5:25 pm

immigration into Canada contributes driving house prices higher, nationality is irrelevant, but obviously identifiable – that does not make one xenophobic

read some Picketty – perhaps you’ll understand what’s going on. the stock market is a perfect example of how the system is making those with capital wealthier. why should capital gains be exempt?

#24 NOTHING SURPRISES on 12.26.17 at 5:30 pm

The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree.

T1 never had to make a dollar nor did he know what wearing a uniform for his country stood for.

Would you expect T2 do do so ?

#25 I’m stupid on 12.26.17 at 5:36 pm

I believe in tax fairness. In the spirit of fairness why are taxes only collected on earnings? Wouldn’t it be fair to take net worth into account when determining taxes to be paid?

Someone could have a billion sitting in a bank account and receive OAS tax free.

Or someone making 250k and pay 50% taxes
While a couple could earn 125k each and pay way less taxes.

Or a household earning 200k and renting while another makes 100k but got 600k in value increase on their principal residence tax free.

A saver gets ruined by inflation while a spender gets reward with the collapse of interest rates.

Government should create a tax system that’s fair instead of attacking income only.

#26 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 5:39 pm

#13 a dee on 12.26.17 at 5:25 pm
immigration into Canada contributes driving house prices higher, nationality is irrelevant, but obviously identifiable – that does not make one xenophobic

read some Picketty – perhaps you’ll understand what’s going on. the stock market is a perfect example of how the system is making those with capital wealthier. why should capital gains be exempt?

————————–

I read him, Picketty, not bad but a little overrated in my mind.
Good fit on the stock market/cost of productive capital rising, it will continue to rise.

No relation to housing market whatsoever.
If not for CMHC SFH in Toronto would be 450 k, in the suburbs 300 k.

Thomas Pidketty writes about Europe which is totally different world than Canada which is totally different world then US when considering housing markets.

Do not confuse uneducated brainwashed Canadians with mumbo-jumbo, please!

A house in a big working class city with disappearing jobs at peak credit and coming full automation of labour/elimination of jobs is not an asset but liability.

Just look at the taxes you have to pay in order to afford such ‘asset’. Bitcoins even seems better.

#27 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 5:41 pm

#21 Loonie Doctor on 12.26.17 at 5:21 pm
It is interesting watching this play out. Looking at the income disparity curve from Ryan’s post a few days ago, the slope of the curve really takes off for the top 5th and and 5% even more. Thinking on it and looking around, there is a fair bit of class mobility in Canada for those in the under a couple hundred thousand dollars income per year. We have affordable post secondary education, a public school system, and a strong social net. It is not a perfect meritocracy by any means, but better than most of the world and in just about any time period in history.

The thing is, the top 1% in Canada is income around 225K. That is alot, but the real driver of the rich getting richer is not likely this upper income working class (doctors like me, professionals, successful small businessmen/women) – it is more the .1% aristocracy like Mourneau and Trudeau. It is interesting because all of the changes so far don’t touch that group. It just hits those just below it and makes the chance to leap that chasm to join the .1% almost impossible.

——————

Absolutely, you nailed ti down.

This is why I respect doctors :)

#28 acdel on 12.26.17 at 5:44 pm

#13 MF

Good attitude! It’s up to your age group now!

#29 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 5:46 pm

#25 I’m stupid on 12.26.17 at 5:36 pm

Government should create a tax system that’s fair instead of attacking income only.

————————-
The do, they create a tax system that is fair…. for them.

They do not care about you. Do you believe for a moment that T2 and will bill care about you?

If you do, you need professional mental care help.

#30 Jay (not that one) on 12.26.17 at 5:53 pm

Let’s not be dishonest here.

Our cousins to the South want both: huge government *and* no taxes.

They’re kindergarteners. They want their dessert, and don’t want to eat their dinners to get there.

We ended up doing the same a while back. Blame Trudeau for deficits all you like, but it was the people who came before who cut taxes and increased spending and brought back deficits. “Oh, if we only got elected this time! We would have balanced that budget!”

Too late.

We need higher taxes. Sorry. That’s the price for all the promises that Trudeau won on, and it’s unfair to expect him to break all those promises in pursuit of a goal he didn’t state.

If we all want lower taxes, then we need austerity first — just like in a normal household. If I want to take a pay cut without going into debt, I’ve got to cut my spending, *then* quit my job. Along the way, I’ll even pay back debt. What a concept!

This has been my top legislative priority for a decade. I voted for Mike Harris when he balanced budgets, and I voted for Jean Cretien and Paul Martin when they balanced budgets. I don’t care about the ideology you spout, I want to see results.

But in the meantime, it’s hypocrisy to attack Trudeau for not doing the thing the CPC didn’t do in 8 years.

#31 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 5:56 pm

#14 MF on 12.26.17 at 5:15 pm

The grass is never greener

—————————–

Sure, I thought they would legalize weed in April.
Be careful, you are not T2/no exceptions for you.

#32 HoweStreet.com on 12.26.17 at 5:59 pm

Ross Kay on HoweStreet.com Radio:
BC Condo Homeowners Hit With Whopping Tax Increase.
New Mortgage Qualification Rules.

https://www.howestreet.com/2017/12/26/bc-condo-homeowners-hit-with-whopping-tax-increase/

#33 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 6:04 pm

#30 Jay (not that one) on 12.26.17 at 5:53 pm
Let’s not be dishonest here.

Our cousins to the South want both: huge government *and* no taxes.

They’re kindergarteners. They want their dessert, and don’t want to eat their dinners to get there.

We ended up doing the same a while back. Blame Trudeau for deficits all you like, but it was the people who came before who cut taxes and increased spending and brought back deficits. “Oh, if we only got elected this time! We would have balanced that budget!”

Too late.

We need higher taxes. Sorry. That’s the price for all the promises that Trudeau won on, and it’s unfair to expect him to break all those promises in pursuit of a goal he didn’t state.

If we all want lower taxes, then we need austerity first — just like in a normal household. If I want to take a pay cut without going into debt, I’ve got to cut my spending, *then* quit my job. Along the way, I’ll even pay back debt. What a concept!

This has been my top legislative priority for a decade. I voted for Mike Harris when he balanced budgets, and I voted for Jean Cretien and Paul Martin when they balanced budgets. I don’t care about the ideology you spout, I want to see results.

But in the meantime, it’s hypocrisy to attack Trudeau for not doing the thing the CPC didn’t do in 8 years

——————————

You are absolutely illiterate economically/everything that is wrong with uneducated financially Canadians,
and yet you have a vote.

So sad.

One can not outgrow his/her/zer… swamp.

I put wild Bill in your category. T2 is much worse.

1. T2 does not increase taxes on the rich/himself or his financial minister, he increases taxes on the middle class, you.

2. Increasing the taxes on the middle tax cuts spending by the middle class so it suppresses the economy, something that the US tax law encourages.

3. Exit from peak credit by austerity is idiotic and crazy.
Instead you need gigantic real QE and to cut taxes.

We are going to hit the wall at 100 miles per hour and you are not seying it?

4. Deficit that does not encourage spending by the poor and the middle class but goes to the rich is bad.

I can go here for a while but my patience limits are already exhausted.

Let’s just wait it out and see what happens.

#34 nita on 12.26.17 at 6:04 pm

Once again you mercilessly but accurately expose the current Canadian mindset: willing to sacrifice many freedoms for a supposed security … ever fixated on dividing up the nation’s pie of wealth (irrespective of who created it) instead of creating a larger pie. Pathetic.

#35 TnT on 12.26.17 at 6:09 pm

Garth or any Blog Dawg… (not Mark)…

Would / Could it get so bad in Canada that Offshore Banking becomes a must for preserving ones capital?

What minimum would one need to have before serious consideration of an Offshore plan?

#36 Bezengy on 12.26.17 at 6:10 pm

My guess is we’ll be facing a unity crisis soon as some provinces realize we’re all have not provinces now and the oil rich provinces can’t give the rest of us free money. Meanwhile Team Trump buys our oil at a discount and sends it to China. Canada’s 2018 word of the year… “unsustainable”

#37 For those about to flop... on 12.26.17 at 6:13 pm

Here’s a post I do around this time of the month to try to keep it consistent.

A look at happenings at the bottom end of the detached market in Vancouver proper.

Number of listings under 1.3 million….32

Number of these properties that have lowered their price… 11

And so a few less options than normal,been consistently up in the 40s but there is some hibernation going on this time of year ,but the desperadoes are a little higher at 34% as it is normally between 25/30%.

If these houses start selling easily again then we will have an indicator of a warming detached market ,but at this stage they are unloved due to a lack of views ,granite and glass.

Who said you can’t buy glass…

M43BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate

#38 dr. talc on 12.26.17 at 6:13 pm

The ‘appearance’ of support is easily achieved with shills, trolls, cra and cbc employees, party faithful, and click farms. All stagecraft.
Add the fact that Morneu has absolutely Zero opposition from MSM so he can verbally contradict tax code with impunity: no one challenges anything he says.

#39 MF on 12.26.17 at 6:14 pm

#28 acdel on 12.26.17 at 5:44 pm

Thanks. It’s true though. If you speak to a lot of older millennials around my age you will find a ton of disapproval of T2.

The challenge is to get the message out there in the face of all the bones and carrot sticks morsels these Liberals offer (child tax benefit as an example). The conservatives have to run on a heavily small business and family friendly platform to have a chance. They already had one misstep with Scheer (should have been Bernier), but he can still win if he courts small businesses and families alike.

#31 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 5:56 pm

I don’t smoke weed. That little morsel/carrot stick has no effect. Jokes on them/him.

MF

#40 Nonplused on 12.26.17 at 6:14 pm

“Canadians making a little over $200,000 now pay half what they make in tax”

Is that before or after HST, property taxes, gasoline taxes, sin taxes, carbon taxes, royalties, environmental charges, license fees, speed cameras, parking fees, employment insurance, CPP, user fees, late payment penalties, accounting fees, Turbo Tax, capital gains taxes, land transfer fees, and road tolls?

I boggles the mind to think what things might actually cost if there weren’t so many taxes. I’m guessing the cost of living might be less than half what it is now.

And don’t forget that the way the system is designed compounds all taxes because one man’s expense is another man’s income. So when that guy making $200,000 a year takes the $100,000 he has left and uses some of it to pay his plumber to fix that leaky pipe he has to pay HST on the bill and the plumber has to send a portion of the money off to Ottawa based on whatever his tax rate is too. Then the plumber takes what’s left and goes to 7-11 (I don’t know why but trades-people love 7-11) and buys himself a large Slurpee and pays HST again and the 7-11 owner pays income tax again according to his tax rate, and so on, and so on, and so on.

And it still isn’t enough money to balance the budget!

Another piece of financial advice I have for young people in this environment is never ever ever marry a someone who does not plan to work. The rewards for working your arse off to get one of the rare $200,000 per year jobs out there mostly get gobbled up by the government. Better to chill out and have 2 – $85,000 a year jobs.

#41 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 12.26.17 at 6:21 pm

Half of Canadians making under $30,000 and Garth is talking about financial independence.

You people are delusional. You don’t live in the real world.

#42 Dolce Vita on 12.26.17 at 6:28 pm

It will be interesting to see what happens when the economy falters by mid next year.

Boomers tapping into the last wealth they have, Real Estate, to help out their idiot children. And RE is just beginning to crash and it will only get worse.

We’ll see how gaming the system worked out for the Boomers then.

#43 the ryguy on 12.26.17 at 6:31 pm

#14 MF on 12.26.17 at 5:15 pm
————————————-

grass is never greener?

If you can’t see the difference between what Trump is trying to do and what T2 is doing, you are either MSM brainwashed or a total fool.

Just one ludicrous example;

Canada’s most “conservative” party wants Immigration at 250k/annually, the other side wants 400/k. We are the definition of a uni-party.. the voters get to choose which bread they prefer for the sh*t sandwich.

Im working on getting my E-2 and saying bye to this soon to be hell hole. You don’t have to study all that hard to see what happens when demographics shift as violently as Canada’s have and continue to do.

Sorry a 2nd… Why in the world would a company choose Canada over the USA now that Trump is in charge? Give me one reason. Sure a confused cis/trap can take a leak in whatever bathroom it chooses; wow aren’t we wonderful!

Its over folks..stay if you must, but don’t say you weren’t warned.

#44 acdel on 12.26.17 at 6:37 pm

#39 MF

It is encouraging to read your response with the beliefs and mindset of your companions in your age group; there is hope for this country after all…

I agree with you!

#45 Howard on 12.26.17 at 6:38 pm

Thank you SO MUCH Canadian females for electing this turd with the brain of a peanut.

All because Harper was such a meanie!!

#46 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 6:42 pm

#38 dr. talc on 12.26.17 at 6:13 pm
The ‘appearance’ of support is easily achieved with shills, trolls, cra and cbc employees, party faithful, and click farms. All stagecraft.
Add the fact that Morneu has absolutely Zero opposition from MSM so he can verbally contradict tax code with impunity: no one challenges anything he says.
——————————-

CBC is ministry of propaganda for the ruling left elitists paid by our own taxpayers money

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/time-to-check-the-cbcs-privilege

It is called ‘innovation’

Already costing taxpayers $1.04 billion in 2015 and facing rising competition, the CBC’s fiscal burden is set to jump by $75 million in 2016 and $150 million in 2017. Regarding the higher price tag of the state broadcaster, Finance Minister Bill Morneau has deflected by saying that “believing in innovation is also believing in the talent and in the creativity of Canadians.” Apologists further contend this is necessary to save the CBC from “extinction.”

#47 Howard on 12.26.17 at 6:46 pm

#24 NOTHING SURPRISES on 12.26.17 at 5:30 pm
The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree.

T1 never had to make a dollar nor did he know what wearing a uniform for his country stood for.

Would you expect T2 do do so ?

—————————————

Oh but in fact T1 was well-versed in uniforms.

In his 20s, during WW2, he was known to don a homemade Nazi uniform and ride his bike through Montreal’s Jewish neighbourhood to intimidate the residents.

No wonder Ernst Zundel ran for the Liberal leadership in 1968. He could see he wasn’t an outlier in that party.

#48 EJ on 12.26.17 at 6:47 pm

It’s all the weed the mills smoke, confuses them to facts, makes em pliable to the new doctrine: ‘fair share’, meaning anyone not making over 100K/year is entitled to soak up the ‘excess’ from those making more.

I guess the climate is changing bec bananas now grow very well in the north…

#49 Pepito on 12.26.17 at 6:48 pm

The pendulum always swings back, so bring it on Garth. The longer you try to defend your antisocial stance, the harder the return swing will eventually be to a more equal society. The same goes for politics in the US. Obama’s hope for change was a lie, manufactured by his friends on wall street who financed him. Trump is probably the last straw before a Bernie or an Elizabeth Warren type really kicks the wealthy in the teeth with 90% taxation like in the 50s and 60s when ordinary people could actually have decent life. If you think T2 is unjust to you and the wealthy you defend, just wait to see what comes after him. I’m a boomer who is cheering the mellenials on in their fight for a more just society. May Milton Friedman rot in hell where he belongs.

#50 Victor V on 12.26.17 at 6:48 pm

Longer amortizations and higher costs: Our mortgage outlook for 2018

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/mortgage-policy-changes-decoding-whats-to-come-for-2018/article37426891/?click=sf_globefb

#51 Howard on 12.26.17 at 6:59 pm

#30 Jay (not that one) on 12.26.17 at 5:53 pm

A few points :

1) The Harper Tories paid down a ton of debt in 2006/2007 and then the biggest financial crisis in 80 years hit. I guess that was their fault?

2) Trudeau is on track to add as much debt to the national debt in 4 years that Harper did in 10, and there’s no recession to justify it.

3) The point about the new taxes is that PM excrement-for-brains seems to be attacking the hardworking well-off while leaving alone his own trust funds. Add to that Morneau bringing in measures that will directly benefit his inherited business and this government stinks to high heaven.

#52 Debtslavecreator on 12.26.17 at 7:01 pm

It’s called left wing brain disease and the only cure is the inevitable social and economic collapse it eventually brings
People get what they deserve and in this country that is so called progressive left wing nutjobs who are focussed on stealing others money and regulating everything others should do
As the economy slowly deteriorates and the problems grow expect the anger to grow and likely result in yet even more radical left wing crazies who tax even more and further collapse the system until the inevitable loss of confidence by our creditors (sovereign debt crisis)
Then the real fun stuff happens
I am embarrassed at how so many in this country think
You have no right to take 40-50% of your neighbours income and you have no right to borrow hundreds of billions of debt for your kids and unborn grandkids to pay off
RIP socialism
Garbage – there’s no liberty in liberalism

#53 Keith on 12.26.17 at 7:07 pm

@ Nonplused #40

The top 1% of Canadians should move to B.C. 400k+ in income to be in that elite group, plus a $39,000 provincial income tax cut this century. Add in the Harper tax cuts on the wealthy, and you’re well ahead of the middle class – with increases in fees and hydro they’re paying more.

If you’re a small business owner in B.C., it’s pretty great to pay cut rate wages and salaries for any worker after a ten year freeze in the minimum wage cut the earning of the poorest workers in the province by over $4000. Vancouver ranks 22nd in Canada in median income in the fastest growing economy in the country and by far the highest cost of living relative to income.

You really need to choose wisely where to live in Canada. There are places where the wealthy are truly welcomed, with brand new exotic car dealerships, new Audi dealerships for real estate needs, and the newest bricks and mortar retail has names like Brooks brothers, Hermes and Tiffany.

We may have a tax issue in Canada. For certain we have an income issue for the middle class. The much reviled government workers have gotten cost of living for 30+ years, at best. Sadly private sector workers have fallen so far behind, the elite aims their anger at “overpaid” government workers. If you haven’t received a pay rise in real terms over three decades in an economy that has grown, how can you be overpaid? The answer is relative to private sector workers that have been shafted, and told to aim their anger at other workers rather than an economic system that has stiffed them.

#54 Editrix on 12.26.17 at 7:07 pm

Why does Jagmeet remind me of Snidely Whiplash?

#55 Millennial Mantra on 12.26.17 at 7:10 pm

Vote NDP. Orange is the happiest colour.

Let Canada become a workers’ paradise like Cuba and Venezuela.

#56 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 7:12 pm

#50 Victor V on 12.26.17 at 6:48 pm
Longer amortizations and higher costs: Our mortgage outlook for 2018

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/mortgage-policy-changes-decoding-whats-to-come-for-2018/article37426891/?click=sf_globefb

——————————–

It would not surprise me at all considering the average IQ of the populace.

Pay more for longer and they call it affordable housing.

This place is doomed, in 10 years nobody will have a job and they talk about 30 years mortgages!

Why not 40, 50, even 100 years, inter-generational mortgages?
Can somebody please shut down the lights of this mental institution?

#57 Ex pat canuck on 12.26.17 at 7:14 pm

Hi Garth, as I read you just now you make it sound like the tax “cuts” in the formerly united states is a good thing. Well, details about the bill that was rushed through so rapidly the ink is still not dry on it yet are starting to leak out. We are hearing in louder and louder choruses down here in the lower 48 that this is not a tax cut, but rather a massive (1.5 trillion dollars massive) transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the one percenters, which is also going to lead to a much higher deficit (sorry about that, grandkids), and in eight- ten years, higher taxes for the lower and middle class when the “tax cut” reverts to a tax increase. But only for the hoi paloi, for their “cuts” have a sunset date, but the corporations get a permanent tax deduction. Hmm. But it gets more interesting… an estimate of 10% higher health care premiums in each of the next ten years, effectively doubling the cost of health care in one decade. I don’t know, maybe I’m reading your column today incorrectly, but I fail to see how comparing this questionable USA wealth transfer (which is going to lead to cuts in the medicare and social security, according to Paul Ryan) to what your current Prime Minister is doing makes any sense. After all, Trudeau is not cutting health care or the canada pension plan while giving corporations a massive permanent tax cut and increasing taxes after a few years on anyone earning less that a quarter mil a year is he? Or is he? What am I missing? Thank you and have a wonderful boxing day eve!

#58 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 7:24 pm

#25 I’m stupid on 12.26.17 at 5:36 pm
why are taxes only collected on earnings?
______________________________________________

To keep the poor people poor and the rich people richer. Duh! People with a paycheque are easily held hostage. The rules are made by and for those with wealth.

#59 conan on 12.26.17 at 7:29 pm

#11 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 4:53 pm

– can’t fix a simple payroll system for years.

I saw all this with my own eyes. The Cons fired, laid off, or cut funding to the people who knew how the benefits and pay roll worked. Then the Cons booked the savings for getting rid of these same critical workers.

Every time someone tries to lay the blame of Phoenix on the Liberals, I want to gag.

The Cons own Phoenix and they are too deceitful and cowardly to admit it.

Id rather vote for shit on a stick then ever vote Conservative.

#60 X on 12.26.17 at 7:35 pm

At the centre is the refusal to accept that an income disparity should exist, with the 1% and the 99% drifting ever-further apart upon an ocean of inequality. Garth

Always hated the jealousy exhibited by those that work at Timmies, yet want those who went on to extended educations and to earn higher salaries taxed down to the same amount of cash flow that they have.

What makes the income disparity greater is the choices that people make with their money. Some people have more money for a reason.

Trudeau should also eradicate the ability to write off moving expenses if they are for work related reasons. As many will be moving south, they are near having a full workforce and will need more workers. Our small business policy seems to want everyone to work for the gov’t.

#61 Ace Goodheart on 12.26.17 at 7:37 pm

T2 tax predictions:

– If they are going to increase the amount of taxable capital gains, they are going to do it in a way that does not effect large, publicly traded corporations (like Morneau Shepell for example). Look for a new loop hole that allows certain corporate individuals to claim back any increase in capital gains taxation (which loop hole will not be available to the middle classes). Invest accordingly.

-dividends: this is the big one. T2 and his gang of stoner/fakers CANNOT tax dividends without two things happening: 1. Taxing themselves, and their friends and relatives and all those close to them. The wealthy make their money off of dividends and capital gains. Which leads to …….

2. Everyone gets confused. Corporate tax law is more complicated than particle physics. There are only a very few people alive who understand it (and they are all tax lawyers and tax law professors). T2 and Morneau cannot easily change the law relating to taxation of dividends, because neither of them understand it (nor could they). Any attempt to tweak these laws will result in a small number of individuals becoming very wealthy (ie, the tax lawyers and tax law profs who understand corporate tax law) and then everyone will continue on with their dividend deductions once the high brows figure out how to get around any changes to corporate tax laws.

When you claim back the eligible dividend tax credit on your return, you are accessing this massive corporate tax system, just scraping the surface of it really, if even that. There is this giant piece of legislation behind what you are doing, and very few people can even read it (and those people do not include former drama teachers and/or trust fund kids).

I guess they’ll all just get stoned up on the Hill for a while, maybe have a stoner club that goes up in the turrets and burns one down every few hours. T2 can go to his meetings where he is not actually in the room and not influencing anything or part of anything that is going on, Wild Bill can figure out how to not be in a conflict of interest while actually being in a conflict of interest, and the rest of them can go and save the world on our dime, one NGO/well connected let’s party in a foreign country and call it charity club at a time.

We’ll all go live in communes in our “post nation” state and worry about global warming when it’s -30 outside with a windchill and we really need a little warm air right now.

#62 MF on 12.26.17 at 7:39 pm

#43 the ryguy on 12.26.17 at 6:31 pm

I’m a huge Trump supporter. I believe he is doing great things down south. I also believe he was the result of 8 years of Democrat socialism gone amok. Like someone else mentioned above, the pendulum always swings back. That’s what we need to focus on.

??

Anyways,

My point was if you want change in the direction our country is going you need to mobilize and bring it on yourself, not just passively hope someone else does it or run like a coward the second a politician says something you don’t like.

“Canada’s most “conservative” party wants Immigration at 250k/annually, the other side wants 400/k. We are the definition of a uni-party.. the voters get to choose which bread they prefer for the sh*t sandwich.”

-I have worked with immigrants my whole life in the private sector in the GTA. I have zero issue with someone who sacrifices everything to come here, is happy to be in a safe/stable country like Canada, proud to be Canadian, and who wants to raise a family and contribute. In short no issues with LEGAL immigration..just like Trump in the US.

“sorry a 2nd… Why in the world would a company choose Canada over the USA now that Trump is in charge? Give me one reason. Sure a confused cis/trap can take a leak in whatever bathroom it chooses; wow aren’t we wonderful!”

-This one is easy. The country is safe, stable and boring. People and businesses thrive in that environment. Businesses couldn’t care less what gender people identify with. Moot point. Money does not care one bit.

MF

#63 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 7:41 pm

#45 Howard on 12.26.17 at 6:38 pm
Thank you SO MUCH Canadian females for electing this turd with the brain of a peanut.
______________________________________________

In his book “Sex and Culture” written in 1934, J.D. Unwin postulates that giving women the vote ultimately leads to the destruction of that society. He studied 86 different cultures over 5000 years of history and found they all collapsed after becoming feminist societies.

#64 pam on 12.26.17 at 7:42 pm

“There’s no shame in success, no apology to be made for earning big money and wanting to keep it.” This quote should guide our policy making going forward. Unfortunately it’s not on T2s’ radar screen.

#65 bigtowne on 12.26.17 at 7:45 pm

Some news from France:

France has banned “smart phones” in schools including elementary and high schools due to the loss of “social skills”in the children and perceived condition of “autism being noted with more usage.

Also in France: Crews cleaning up all the immigrant camps and shelters are now being combed for false asylum seekders….guess the diversity craze kind of got the Marine Le Pen boot…c’est possible.

Hard to get the AirBNB share concept…rent a basement room (no private bath or fresh linen or housekeeping or privacy) for $110 a nite when you can go to Hampton Inn and get clean fresh room; security; pool; nice breakfast; snack bag; newspapers and front desk for local color…I have stayed in Mexican and Latin American hotels for $10 a nite but you still get private bath and lock and key.

#66 dakkie on 12.26.17 at 7:46 pm

Canadian Housing Affordability Hits 27 Year Low

http://investmentwatchblog.com/canadian-housing-affordability-hits-27-year-low/

#67 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 8:02 pm

#56 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 7:12 pm
Why not 40, 50, even 100 years, inter-generational mortgages?
______________________________________________

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247245828_The_100-year_Japanese_residential_mortgage_An_examination

A recent innovation in the Japanese real estate industry to promote home ownership is the creation of a 100-year mortgage term. The home, encumbered by the mortgage, becomes an ancestral property and is passed on from grandparent to grandchild in a multigenerational fashion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/sweden-cuts-maximum-mortgage-term-to-105-years-the-average-is-14/

Sweden cuts maximum mortgage term to 105 years (the average is 140)

#68 WORG on 12.26.17 at 8:11 pm

Can’t wait, tax tips for us white old rich guys (WORGs…ok I just made that acronym up). Gonna be epic, like a Conner McDavid playoff beard.

#69 Dimitri Sears on 12.26.17 at 8:12 pm

“garthturner Took my babe out for Christmas Eve dinner @ the fancy hotel. Serious points.”

Can you find a wayback machine on Instagram feeds because I really need one!

#70 Dimitri Sears on 12.26.17 at 8:13 pm

#47 If Pierre Trudeau was a Nazi fan then why is his son intimidating Pro-Nazi newspaper Your Ward News? It doesn’t make any sense.

#71 Trojan House on 12.26.17 at 8:20 pm

#49 Pepito on 12.26.17 at 6:48 pm

Unfortunately Pepito, you are brain dead. There has never been a just society in history and there likely never will be (and especially not in our lifetime).

There has, however, been many times when societies have collapsed trying to build a just society. Eventually the West will see this happen (maybe or maybe not in our lifetime).

#72 Pepito on 12.26.17 at 8:23 pm

Don’t know if anyone else has posted this here but it has to be the most entertaining piece of writing I’ve read in a while. Dave Collum’s 2017 year in review. Long. Enjoy. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-23/dave-collums-2017-year-review-bubble-everything-grew

#73 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 12.26.17 at 8:24 pm

Here we all are, pissing and moaning and trashing The Turd and his Liberal minions. Boo hoo…Lest we forget:it was Harper and Flaherty and the Conservatives who douched us with the income trust fiasco and it was Harpo and Flats who ignited and poured gasoline on the housing bubble fire. The only party that hasn’t stuck it up our ass is the NDP. Maybe their time has come……….

#74 Vancouverite on 12.26.17 at 8:26 pm

Garth,

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/buying-properties-for-school-aged-kids-comes-with-pitfalls-experts-warn/article37427082/

In what other industry can Mr Lamb say this:

“Brad Lamb, president of Brad J. Lamb Realty & Lamb Development Corp., says the same trend is playing out in Toronto. “People are in some cases buying three apartments – one for each kid in different buildings. When they get old enough, they can choose to sell it or live in it – but at least they have their toehold in the market. It’s happening a lot.”

Mr. Lamb says he recently bought his five-year-old a condo. “It’s 800 square feet – I paid around $450,000,” he says. “When she’s 20 in 15 years, that will probably be worth $3-million.”

Mr. Lamb says the apartment can rent for $2,500 a month. Fifteen years from now with rent increases, he foresees “$2,000, $3,000 per month in pure profit, plus a very small mortgage to pay off.””

#75 Newcomer on 12.26.17 at 8:32 pm

At the centre is the refusal to accept that an income disparity should exist, with the 1% and the 99% drifting ever-further apart upon an ocean of inequality. –Garth
———

So what do we want? The ocean of inequality is a real problem, and it’s not surprising that kids and other people who have little experience in how money and business work respond by suggesting we do away with it. Nor is it surprising that politicians trying to get their votes use that kind of language.

They forget that inequality is a type of diversity and, as such, is essential for a healthy society, for progress and all the things that they hold dear. But how do we get the balance where most people are doing OK and feel that they have a fair chance of doing better if they work hard?

Ryan wants progressive taxation capped at 50%, more taxes on dividends, higher minimum wage and a stronger welfare state.

Me, limit capital gains exemptions and have the progressive income tax go to the moon after 100 x minimum wage. There is no need for anyone to earn more than 100 times what a poorest full-time worker earns. What do you want Garth?

Here’s hoping that tomorrow’s Manifesto solves all the problems of modern society so we can stop the bickering and get back to winter sports

#76 T on 12.26.17 at 8:35 pm

#12 Rental property math on 12.26.17 at 5:03 pm
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/buying-properties-for-school-aged-kids-comes-with-pitfalls-experts-warn/article37427082/?campaign_id=A100

In that article brad lamb says buy a 450k condo today and it’ll be worth 3 million in 15 years.
13.5% annualized returns. That’s one hell of an opinion.
On a side note I just renewed one of my mortgages. 2.84% on a 5 year fixed. Took about 10 minutes total. 5 minutes phone call, signed a few pages emailed to me. Didn’t ask any questions. Just seen that I made all my payments and all is well. No need to go shop around, no need for any stress tests. Too much fear mongering on this blog regarding mortgage renewals.

——-

You didn’t shop around? Smart move.

Who likes saving money anyways?

Like most Canadians, you took the path of least resistance rather then putting in some work. Congratulations!

#77 Smoking Man on 12.26.17 at 8:37 pm

Do liberals become mentally ill, or do the mentally ill become liberals?

For all of you who think taxing the crap out of the wealthy will end well for you. Well your crazy. Money has wings and can tell you first hand. It’s going to the USA big time.

Venezuela was once a country ready to fly. The commies killed it. Same thing is going to happen to Canada.

Get out with your money while you’re still allowed.

#78 T on 12.26.17 at 8:43 pm

#41 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 12.26.17 at 6:21 pm
Half of Canadians making under $30,000 and Garth is talking about financial independence.

You people are delusional. You don’t live in the real world.

—-

Not delusional, intelligent and hard working.

Nothing comes for free, as much as you want it so.

You and I are about the same age. I had many friends like you. Keyword is ‘had’.

I ‘had’ these friends until my hard work over a decade started paying dividends. The jealousy was unbearable. As if I didn’t deserve success after sacrifices made to get here. While they were out drinking and living it up every night I was planning and executing. Now that their parents aren’t footing all their bills they are constantly broke and complaining just like you, blaming everyone but themselves.

Go back to the hole you crawled out of.

#79 Pepito on 12.26.17 at 8:44 pm

@#71 Trojan House on 12.26.17 at 8:20 pm
Unlike Europeans who have learned their lesson and Venezuelans who are now learning theirs, Americans and Canadians such as yourself lack the long perspective and are too ignorant of history to appreciate and, indeed, fear the FUBAR consequences of extreme inequality…. yet.

#80 45north on 12.26.17 at 8:52 pm

The evidence is all around us. It’s in the support Bill Morneau enjoyed during his attack on entrepreneurs and the self-employed. It’s in the obsession with ‘safe’ residential real estate as opposed to ‘risky’ financial assets. It’s certainly there in an historic number of young adults refusing to leave the parental womb. It’s in the Bank of Mom handing over down payments. And this week, in news of parents buying investment real estate for their school-aged children.

Voters want safe.

but you say residential real estate’s not safe – it’s getting riskier every single day. We saw that when Home Capital went begging for buyers, when Smoking Man sold. We’ll see that in January when the US Fed raises interest rates and when the OSFI brings in B20. We’ll see that in May when sales collapse in the GTA. There’s a disconnect here – if safe were a thing -voters are not getting it.

#81 45north on 12.26.17 at 8:53 pm

conan: – payroll system:

I saw all this with my own eyes. The Cons fired, laid off, or cut funding to the people who knew how the benefits and pay roll worked. Then the Cons booked the savings for getting rid of these same critical workers.

The old payroll system wasn’t perfect but it was accepted. I received a promotion and moved from Statistics Canada to Agriculture Canada. For one year I was paid from the Statistics Canada pay office.

Phoenix is a product of the need of the senior civil service to centralize . Administrative darwinism. True believers. Phoenix is a part of Shared Services which is the vision of the senior civil service to centralize all Information Technology in the Federal Government. It’s costing $1.4 billion a year. It has demoralized the IT divisions within each department, it was supposed to save money but it hasn’t saved a dime..

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2017/12/24/hark-2/#comment-562383

#82 Dobermanduke on 12.26.17 at 8:57 pm

#12 Rental property math on 12.26.17 at 5:03 pm

What lender gave you that rate?

#83 Manitoba Whale on 12.26.17 at 9:09 pm

#41 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 12.26.17 at 6:21 pm
Half of Canadians making under $30,000 and Garth is talking about financial independence.
*****

Interesting. Half the people in my marriage make less than $30,000 and the other half makes over $100,000.

Oddly, only one of us reads this blog. Can you guess which one?

MW

#84 cool aid on 12.26.17 at 9:14 pm

‘US has ….reduce middle-class taxes by up to half ‘

link Garth

:)

Trump said it. Must be true. – Garth

#85 Cash is King on 12.26.17 at 9:16 pm

October 21, 2019 when Justin faces Jagmeet.

Not a nice thought when attempting to digest a turkey dinner. Other options:

B) None of the above
C) Above – I’m selecting none
D) Submit blank ballot

#86 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 12.26.17 at 9:24 pm

THE GREAT EXPECTATIONS OF T-2 & CO.

What are those expectations?

Actually it is only one: to see Trump go down the drain (impeachment) so that “things can get back to normal (whatever that may mean).”

I think that T2 and friends STILL believe that President Trump’s presidency could be upended by the findings of the discredited US Special Counsel’s investigation into “Russia meddling” in the last US national elections.

Trudeau’s buddy-buddy relationship with former president Obama assumed a whole lot “after” Obama .

What was assumed?

The possibility that Trump would never become president because “something” would happen to him prior to his inauguration; his legislative program would fail in Congress amidst public condemnation; corruption at the Trump administration’s highest levels…

But Trump, Deep State machinations or not, just keeps on trucking like the energizer bunny.

MEANWHILE what has happened in the last year in terms of differences, between the economic policies of Canada and the US, are simply stunning.

Canada is off to fairyland with its Millennial “feel good” heavy taxation, class warfare, policies.

AND Trump is ripping along on his Make America Great Again platform.

This he explained in the run-up to the 2016 US elections.

Promises were made: more jobs; more repatriated industries; lower taxes; ending Obamacare; “build that wall”; crack down on alien drug gangs; eliminating many regulations; defeating ISIS; appoint more judges; a new US Supreme Court judge.

Unlike most American presidents and other world leaders, Trump has already fulfilled most of those promises.

More to come.

And then there is NAFTA. We haven’t heard much in the last few weeks but I’m willing to bet he’ll stick a fork in it
(negotiations have failed so far).

Trump made that a promise too, canning NAFTA, if he believed a new deal would be bad for US workers. He has spoken about cutting bi-lateral deals instead of multi-lateral ones. That could be very bad for Canada.

SO, looking at the current state of the policy “chess board” between the US and Canada what is to be concluded?

It depends on your political point of view.

If you’re a Leftie you still think Trump’s out soon, that all of his policies will be canned and it “will be back to normal” and snowflakes and Millennials can continue with their thumbsucking collectives and safe-spaces objectives.

But if you’re one of the rare Righties, about one per cent of our population, you are scrabbling about for a fully-equipped lifeboat.

Great Expectations: Charles Dickens would be fascinated at what’s shaking now.

#87 Risktopia on 12.26.17 at 9:25 pm

Think twice before moving south.

America is walking towards a civil war.

http://www.risktopia.com/2017/12/is-america-approaching-civil-war.html

#88 the ryguy on 12.26.17 at 9:31 pm

#62 MF on 12.26.17 at 7:39 pm
——————————————-
“My point was if you want change in the direction our country is going you need to mobilize and bring it on yourself, not just passively hope someone else does it or run like a coward the second a politician says something you don’t like.”

-Like a coward? How brave of you oh strong one!! Please, you know why Ceasar was a great general? He didn’t fight a battle he knew couldn’t win. Fall on your sword if you like, Ill pass.

“I have worked with immigrants my whole life in the private sector in the GTA. I have zero issue with someone who sacrifices everything to come here..”

– Yet Im a coward for wanting to leave..hmm double standard much?

– Regardless of your cliched, boring & overused anecdote, it has ZERO relevance. Lets even for arguments sake, say that yearly we were scooping the best and brightest from other countries..what does that do to those nations? And where do we get this magical number from? Do we know that every year we are going to get the exact # of these amazing and hard working people? What if there is more available? What if there is a bad year, do we take less? What if automation suddenly removes 40000 jobs in a certain sector.. do we have an automatic rollback? You or any government loon in charge of this policy will have no reasonable answers for any of this, because its not a discussion..”shut up and take it or else, racist”… yeah great argument.

“The country is safe, stable and boring. People and businesses thrive in that environment. Businesses couldn’t care less what gender people identify with. Moot point. Money does not care one bit.”

– Couldn’t have said it better myself! South of us just got a MONSTER tax break, plus HUGE incentives to invest in capital expenditures. Trump has also shown he will not spend a dime with others that aren’t on the same agenda, just cut almost $300M in UN funding. You heard the campaign..JOBS JOBS JOBS..Make America Rich Again!! So thats where the US energy is going.

– Canada has a useless carbon tax, a relentlessly expensive government and a tax plan that annually tells companies to go away. Further our resources are directed at…well at what? Rehabbing idiots that went to fight for ISIS? Abstaining to vote on Jerusalem? Please.. the citizens of this country are being robbed and its a shame.

Sorry for the long post. But as MF above points out..Im a coward for not trying to change things. Well maybe just maybe people will think about some of these things, and not just believe in absolutes like lemmings.

#89 Jamie Dimon on 12.26.17 at 9:31 pm

well said! Bravo Garth Turner Bravo!

#90 Porsche on 12.26.17 at 9:33 pm

Whack the self-employed who sit on retained earnings.
………………………………………………………………………

What does that mean?

I’m self employed and poor and live frugal, I spend as little as possible leaving most of my earnings in my company bank account for when I’m even poorer looking for work or can’t work

#91 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 9:40 pm

#71 Trojan House on 12.26.17 at 8:20 pm

There has, however, been many times when societies have collapsed trying to build a just society. Eventually the West will see this happen (maybe or maybe not in our lifetime).
_____________________________________________

I believe the first western country to collapse in our lifetimes will be Sweden. It will happen suddenly, after some sort of financial crisis. When they run out of (other people’s) money and stop paying welfare, people will take to the streets and riot. That will be the beginning of a civil war.

#92 akashic record on 12.26.17 at 9:49 pm

I am grateful for every morning the sun shines on me,
I have only the highest gratitude for all the gifts I have been showered with every day.

I enjoy making money – as anyone else.
I enjoy even more to give it away to people who are dear to my heart some way. They come from various places, in various shape and form, they can be close relatives or toothless black man asking for change at the subway station. For some unknown reason they command to open my heart to their soul and open my valet in a way that would be most likely condemned here as “foolish” or “careless”.

When I give them money I don’t look at it as my money, I look at it that I am just a vessel that carries the money to them. It feels great honour to be this vessel, and gives joy beyond this world, that the money I deliver could never buy me.

No need to worry about me, friends. Some strange ways I always get back what I give away and some more. I have learn to trust this circle of abundance.
The sun raises, I get the incredible gifts of an other day. My heart is filled with gratitude.

I also know that on the day when the sun won’t raise for me I won’t need a penny or anything else from this world. Until then I have nothing else but gratitude that takes my breath away when the sun shines on me.

#93 Cornelius on 12.26.17 at 9:50 pm

I see lots of talk about turds, idiots, morons etc.. ad hominem to the ad nauseum. This kind of language signals to me a high level of frustration by individual Canadians. Where does this frustration come from?

The ones casting these aspersions feel like, to me, those drivers who honk their horn behind the guy in the “passing” lane driving 10km over the limit.

A few kilometers down the road they are invariably stopped up behind the latest traffic jam and who knows what logic they are using to justify their previous angst and rage.

#94 For those about to flop... on 12.26.17 at 9:55 pm

Possible Pink Snow.

I just loaded this one into my Possible Pinkies folder as there’s nothing to justify their hefty asking price except entitlement.

Picked up in the good Ol’ days of April 2015 for 11.2 million it took a massive assessment bump for things to somewhat realign but besides being a newer property it doesn’t have a lot going in its favour,not market conditions nor location as even waterfront in this price bracket is being snubbed.

Normally put properties asking 10/20% over what they purchased for in this folder ,without much to substantiate it,but I will follow this one even though they are around the 33% marker as current market conditions suggest the magic number is closer to 10m

Towards the end of the year some heavy hitters cashed out, but an interesting observation that I made was that none of these were recent purchases.

I saw a couple go around the 13 million mark but they were originally asking 17/18

The recent purchases cannot discount this much without taking a substantial hit.

In the upper brackets it might be easier to cash out of Bitcoin than Vancouver real estate at the moment…

M43BC

6633 CARTIER ST VANCOUVER paid 11.2 ass 11.5 asking 14.98

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/6633-cartier-street

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMUJONg==

#95 Jay (not that one) on 12.26.17 at 10:01 pm

#33, #51

By arguing with me in the ways you both are, you prove me right.

Excuses, purple prose, and sophistry. “Oh, you don’t understand!”

Decade after decade of apologies and excuses for “your guys”, until you’re so deeply in debt it doesn’t matter anymore.

Obviously you care just as much about balanced budgets as the object of your hatred. You’d just prefer the deficits come from “your guys”.

I understand. Fiscal conservatism doesn’t always make you feel good. Sometimes it means cutting spending you don’t want to cut, or paying more for taxes than you’d prefer. It’s a long path. But whether you like it or not, it’s the only right path. And I don’t care what your party proclaims, reality trumps ideology.

It’s politically unpopular, but if I had a say, I’d raise the GST — raise it by 3% and we can be back in black before 2020, even with another modest middle class income tax cut. If we want to lower it again, start proposing ways to cut spending.

Instead, folks on one “side” can’t imagine cutting spending, the other “side” can’t imagine raising taxes, and at the impasse the debt will never drop again in our lifetimes.

#96 Bobby on 12.26.17 at 10:06 pm

Why is it that those who make the least and subsequently pay the least in income taxes have the highest expectations? They seem to think they are entitled to everything because someone else will pay.
I’m left wondering why I work anymore given I pay more than 50% in income tax.
Maybe I’ll just stay home and demand more, like most Canadians.

#97 conan on 12.26.17 at 10:08 pm

#81 45north on 12.26.17 at 8:53 pm

It has demoralized the IT divisions within each department, it was supposed to save money but it hasn’t saved a dime..

Phoenix is not a computer problem. It is an information entry problem. New people that they had to hire will take years learning all of the rules. Until that happens, expect errors in pay, no pay, too much pay.

Its like buying a car and not understanding it needs gas, and to save money, it is decided to close all of the gas stations.

The level of incompetence is off the charts.

#98 Renter's Revenge! on 12.26.17 at 10:12 pm

“tune in tomorrow for a Tax Trash Manifesto – 10 Things the Prime Minister does Not Want you to Know”

Damn, it’s like clickbait, but it takes a day to load!

The only difference is that I know Garth won’t disappoint.

#99 MF on 12.26.17 at 10:18 pm

#88 the ryguy on 12.26.17 at 9:31 pm

Dude, we basically agree on everything except immigration. I believe it’s a good thing (when done right) but you don’t. We will leave it at that.

And no one will stop you from leaving. Actually no one really cares. The thing that bothers me is when people use the current political environment to disparage the entire country. Or use it as a threat I.E. if they don’t change then I am leaving!

Canada gives everyone a fair chance. I think if someone can’t make it it’s their fault, not the country’s. People who can’t see that can go. The rest of us who love the country will stay and try to make Canada great again.

MF

#100 the Jaguar on 12.26.17 at 10:24 pm

#190 the Jaguar on 12.26.17 at 10:23 pm
garthturner. Christmas morning, his eleventh. Thankful.

There is a slightly lighter cast surrounding his eyes. It draws attention to the overall expression which says “Just be honest with me, always”. Before Garth and Dorothy times were trying, one can see that in his expression as well. There are no words for those who step up and rescue dogs, cats who hold their owners hostage, or everyday acts of kindness to benefit every other creature roaming the planet. Maybe just ‘thank you’. You are an inspiration to others.

#101 akashic record on 12.26.17 at 10:27 pm

Financial equality may sound like a humanistic idea and goal, but we are here to learn what we need to learn in our life.

This may include to learn to deal with the energy of poverty and wealth. No tax system can override what each of us, as individuals need to experience as a lesson to learn from.

#102 not so liquid in calgary on 12.26.17 at 10:29 pm

@ I’m stupid on 12.26.17 at 5:36 pm
I believe in tax fairness.

Government should create a tax system that’s fair instead of attacking income only.

========================================

AGREED, with this part of your whacky statement. Tax consumption, not income!

#103 diddle on 12.26.17 at 10:30 pm

I would suggest that it is the american’s that are out of step with the rest of the world, and not us.

#104 rental property math on 12.26.17 at 10:32 pm

#76 T on 12.26.17 at 8:35 pm
#12 Rental property math on 12.26.17 at 5:03 pm
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/buying-properties-for-school-aged-kids-comes-with-pitfalls-experts-warn/article37427082/?campaign_id=A100

In that article brad lamb says buy a 450k condo today and it’ll be worth 3 million in 15 years.
13.5% annualized returns. That’s one hell of an opinion.
On a side note I just renewed one of my mortgages. 2.84% on a 5 year fixed. Took about 10 minutes total. 5 minutes phone call, signed a few pages emailed to me. Didn’t ask any questions. Just seen that I made all my payments and all is well. No need to go shop around, no need for any stress tests. Too much fear mongering on this blog regarding mortgage renewals.

——-

You didn’t shop around? Smart move.

Who likes saving money anyways?

Like most Canadians, you took the path of least resistance rather then putting in some work. Congratulations!

—————————–
The balance is so low that between the rate I chose and the rate I said I could get that’s advertised by my broker was a difference of $14/month. Wouldn’t have been any further ahead after paying a discharge fee and an appraisal from another lender. I doubt that. No need for me to put myself through a re-qualifying process when my mortgage interest is tax deductible. The tenant’s rent increase will more than cover the difference anyway. No need for sarcasm.

#105 rental property math on 12.26.17 at 10:34 pm

#82 Dobermanduke on 12.26.17 at 8:57 pm
#12 Rental property math on 12.26.17 at 5:03 pm

What lender gave you that rate?

——–
Garth gives the advice around here not me. Find a mortgage broker and get yourself 2.5% on a 5 year fixed.

#106 a123 on 12.26.17 at 10:39 pm

What’s with the closeup picture of Jagmeet?
And some people think he is handsome?
Gross…

#107 not so liquid in calgary on 12.26.17 at 10:48 pm

@ Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 7:41 pm

=========================================

is that you, Smoking Man??

#108 Cornelius on 12.26.17 at 11:04 pm

??

#109 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 11:05 pm

#108 not so liquid in calgary on 12.26.17 at 10:48 pm
@ Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 7:41 pm

=========================================

is that you, Smoking Man??
____________________________________________

I’m insulted. My spelling is much better.

Further to my post at 7:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx70YbMxetY

An analysis of how civilizations collapse as accounted for by the theories of J.D. Unwin.

#110 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.26.17 at 11:12 pm

Hope you and yours had a great Christmas Garth.

Question about rural RE…

What is the outlook for acreages within 90 minutes of the GTA? Up or down in the next 12 to 24 months?

#111 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 11:13 pm

Here is a more entertaining analysis of Unwin’s theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFyIzoBwXVk

The Inevitable Collapse of Feminist Societies

#112 Cornelius on 12.26.17 at 11:28 pm

Canadians are over taxed.

#113 NoName on 12.26.17 at 11:48 pm

interesting read

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-lithium-battery-future/

#114 Ponzius Pilatus on 12.27.17 at 12:01 am

Watched the Turban guy on the Fifth Estate.
This guy may just go all the way.
Got the youth vote locked up.

#115 Rexx Rock on 12.27.17 at 12:12 am

Its better to be a minority in another country than a minority in your own country of Canada.I’m looking at Panama,lower capital gains and lower cost of living for retirees.Only a few options left to leave a Venezula in the making.Its death by a thousand cuts or I mean a thousand taxes.

#116 dosouth on 12.27.17 at 1:51 am

The Gen X and Millennial credo of apologizing and promising more money for all with less of these up and comers working will meet reality one day. Sort of like being forced out of their parents basements as the parents move into a palliative care unit (cause it doesn’t look like the yungin’s are moving any time soon)

In the mean time who has any say in what is really happening? Not most Canadians and that is why the level of pessimism with any gov’t remains so high….promises, promises don’t pay the bills or the taxes.

#117 Smoking Man on 12.27.17 at 1:58 am

#97 MF on 12.26.17 at 10:18 pm
#88 the ryguy on 12.26.17 at 9:31 pm

Dude, we basically agree on everything except immigration. I believe it’s a good thing (when done right) but you don’t. We will leave it at that.

And no one will stop you from leaving. Actually no one really cares. The thing that bothers me is when people use the current political environment to disparage the entire country. Or use it as a threat I.E. if they don’t change then I am leaving!

Canada gives everyone a fair chance. I think if someone can’t make it it’s their fault, not the country’s. People who can’t see that can go. The rest of us who love the country will stay and try to make Canada great again.

MF
……

You’re Delusional MF. Your a smart kid. You have no idea what’s coming down the pipe. Your education disarmed you.

Ask your grand mother what Brown shirts are. If you’re going to stay buy some fire arms and learn to use them.

Marxism is about power for the few it’s not justice.

#118 Smoking Man on 12.27.17 at 2:25 am

T2 is a Globalist dip shit. To stupid to realize his babe is going to cheat on him one day. Like father like son.

Marxism is not social justice. It’s vengeance from the depraved mind of jealousy.

It’s evil and it’s coming for your loot.

Wake up trade floor brothers. You are in serious danger.
When am I wrong when killing a bottle of bourbon.

#119 fishman on 12.27.17 at 2:38 am

I did a quick read of salient points on Trump’s tax cut. One thing that really caught my eye was deduction of new machinery as expense. We used to be able to average net income over three years, then, when Revenue Canada pulled that, we formed corporations to retain earnings so we could average. When you run a small business you have to buy your machinery in good years & wear down your machinery to get through the bad. We can amortize new machinery of course, but writing off as an expense will give the Yanks a huge advantage over us Canuckleheads.If I read the new tax law correctly.

#120 Midnights on 12.27.17 at 4:03 am

Martin Armstrong…

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/canadian-separatists/

Good read.

#121 James Kook on 12.27.17 at 4:48 am

Who is that medieval man?

#122 Trudi on 12.27.17 at 5:53 am

…at the end of the day what do all these wealthy MF hope their money does…make more? Why…all the best in…. 2018. To you and yours

#123 Howard on 12.27.17 at 5:58 am

#95 Jay (not that one) on 12.26.17 at 10:01 pm

I see. “If you disagree with me, you must be blinded ideologically, facts be damned”. Are you a Wilfrid Laurier U professor?

If analyzing the political and economic context (for example, was a government a minority or a majority?) in which a given budget deficit occurred is too complex for you, perhaps a gender studies course would be more at the level of intellectual rigour that you seek.

Oh and who is “that” Jay?

#124 dharma bum on 12.27.17 at 6:24 am

#90 Bobby

I’m left wondering why I work anymore given I pay more than 50% in income tax.
Maybe I’ll just stay home and demand more, like most Canadians.
——————————————————————-

Hey! Now you’re speakin’ my language!

#125 Howard on 12.27.17 at 6:25 am

Jagmeet, unlike T2, doesn’t offend my intellectual sensibilities. Even if I don’t agree with him on much, at the very least when he speaks I don’t get the impression that there’s a shortage of neurotransmitters flowing through his grey matter. Just listening to T2’s “uhh-uhh-uhh” I can almost feel my IQ declining several points.

Unfortunately Jagmeet’s party is facing a disaster in the next election. Quebec is full of racists – 47% according to one poll refuse to vote for a party led by a Sikh (yes I know Sikhism isn’t a race, but as 99.9% of Sikhs are non-white, there is an element of it). The 16 NDP seats in Quebec will fall like dominoes and every one of them will go into the waiting arms of T2.

#126 Trumpettes4us on 12.27.17 at 6:36 am

Garth

Could you jump on the grenade and marry Trump’s daughter or ex-wife, get her citizenship and have her run for leader of this daft nation. She will swing it back to the right and sweep out the left wing trash at the same time.

#127 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.27.17 at 6:53 am

Looks like it’s coming back to $8000

https://i.imgur.com/Yj4M0Pi.jpg

#128 unbalanced on 12.27.17 at 7:41 am

Guy makes 200 grand a year. Pays a lot in various taxes. Probably has a pension or is socking as much into RRSP as possible to pay less taxes. Turns 65 to collect OAS. Wham! Claw backs. Is that fair? Garth says it fair or OK for claw backs but seems he doesn’t like the tax system. Well. what side is it? When a person talks out of both sides of his mouth I try to learn and educate myself. Oh, I forgot to mention I retired at 53 and play the system for what it’s worth. I take everything and anything I can get. I paid into it so why not!

#129 When Will They Raise Rates? on 12.27.17 at 7:45 am

Or new all time highs

#130 I’m stupid on 12.27.17 at 8:14 am

#126 Howard

Jagmeet, unlike T2, doesn’t offend my intellectual sensibilities. Even if I don’t agree with him on much, at the very least when he speaks I don’t get the impression that there’s a shortage of neurotransmitters flowing through his grey matter. Just listening to T2’s “uhh-uhh-uhh” I can almost feel my IQ declining several points.

———

The problem is that you don’t speak his language. Try smoking an ounce of weed then listen to him. He’ll begin to make sense. Depending on your intellect, you might need heroin to fully understand him.

#131 wind breaking news ..... on 12.27.17 at 8:49 am

A late-nite ruckus broke out at Turnover Investments on Fleece Street. Seven men, one woman, and a cross dresser were treated for smokescreen inhalation and re-released. An ex-official, who begged for notoriety, believes the ruse started after a made-in-the-USA train set overheated after being rigged to run on time. A neighbour was quoted as saying:
” I seen a guy in poor-man’s Porche (914) racing away yelling ‘it was Occidental’. Almost every week we find broken needles and dead Camels, it oughta be illegal.”

A fund for the victims has been setup by the Church of the Sanctimonious in Spiritus. Large-ish donations may be tax avoidable. Consult with your mystic.
— Dieter Ohmsbridge reporting for Channel faux news

#132 NoName on 12.27.17 at 8:54 am

Interesting read, end especially in teresting chart about social mobility by country. Canada not sitting well, but can cut both ways I guess.

The Social Origins of Inventors [pdf]
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/aghion/files/social_origins_of_inventors.pdf

#133 Ponnaps on 12.27.17 at 9:22 am

The ‘first post-national state’ Trudeau brag will be the undoing of Canada..

Every nation has that core ethos that works for it ,matured to optimally function by years of history and tradition defines its very being.. be it anglo-franco Canada, Islamic arab countries, hindu India…

uprooting that ethos and imposing an alien ideal has never worked however romantic that notion might have sounded…the arab spring for eg tried to break this native ethos and usher in an alien system.. Pakistan was essentially Hindu land superimposed with Islamic shariah.. it didn’t really turn out the way they expected leaving them as failed states on the brink of collapse..

I shudder to think of the consequences should the T2 brag fructify… Mark my words there’ll be nothing short of an armed revolution if that happens

#134 Sideshow Rob on 12.27.17 at 9:46 am

Money goes where it’s treated best. Increasingly that means south. It’s unfathomable to me how this country seems hell bent on financial suicide. And yet here we are. Be careful Man Bun Millie. You might just get exactly what you want.

#135 Jay (not that one) on 12.27.17 at 9:50 am

#138

“Look at all the great excuses I have! It’s clearly the other guys fault, and you’re clearly one of the other guys!”

Thanks for proving my point for me. I couldn’t have demonstrated better myself.

#136 Big Moncreif on 12.27.17 at 9:51 am

Gals and guys,
Always remember where you were when G&M published that article about parents buying properties for their 5 year olds. That one really shows how facked cdn real estate market is. I assume it’s true, but could be fake news too written to generate clicks and ad revenue. I am assuming it’s the truth though.

– Big Moncreif

#137 Ace Goodheart on 12.27.17 at 9:51 am

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/12/27/new-build-single-family-home-sales-hit-17-year-low.html

We have exited the goldilocks zone of middle class affordability. Now it’s just a long wait for prices to come back into an area that the average middle class working family can actually afford them.

This is the biggest problem that sellers of product face. Trying to hit the sweet spot of middle class affordability, while at the same time being profitable. Most companies fail on this point. They produce wonderful products, but they are just too expensive. Lower the prices, and people will buy the merchandise, but the company cannot produce at those low prices for a profit.

When you get a big industry like housing that has followed a speculative bubble upwards, using low interest rates and public fervour and irrationality to fuel itself to greater and greater heights, this sort of situation can be like a massive train wreck as the whole enterprise slows down. The climb is fun and exhilarating. The fall is painful and very destructive.

#138 Ace Goodheart on 12.27.17 at 10:04 am

RE: #107 rental property math on 12.26.17 at 10:46 pm

“Then use Brad Lamb’s property appreciation calculation on today’s Globe and Mail post. I would love to see one of Garth’s faithful blogdogs take a stab at being a landlord. It would be YouTube channel worthy.”

I don’t know why people continue to do this.

Just got my usual flow of thousands of dollars of dividends (ie, free money) into my investment accounts, like every month. So I’m like, gee now all that dividend cash I spent last month is back again. I guess I have to take another vacation…..

Rental properties: If you enjoy being an amateur plumber, fixing clogged pipes on your weekends (other people’s sh*t smells way better than yours, trust me), replacing dryer bearings and seals, caulking around leaky sinks, scraping black mould encrusted caulking off of old bath tub enclosures. Yeah being a landlord is just lands and lands, countries of fun. I recommend it to any narcissist.

Seriously though, I bought my rental properties on speculation. Only have one left (really, really want to sell it, but I’m waiting for a subway to be finished).

From trying every method of earning money that I could find, I can say hands down, without a shadow of a doubt, collecting free dividends every month is the best method. Nothing compares to it.

And I pay less tax on my dividend income than you lot do working.

Go figure.

#139 For those about to flop... on 12.27.17 at 10:33 am

Debt to the left of me ,IOU’s to the right ,here I am stuck in the middle with you…

M43BC

“This Map Shows Where the Most Debt-Burdened People in America Live

Americans have racked up almost $13 trillion in personal debt for things like mortgages, car notes and student loans. $13 trillion is an enormous pile of money, but here’s the kicker. That’ssignificantly better than the run-up to the Great Recession. Still, it’s hard to imagine what that looks like across the country. So, we created a new map to figure out exactly what’s going on.

GOBankingRates recently conducted a survey in which they asked Americans how much debt they had. This included things like a mortgage, credit card debt, student loans, car notes and medical bills—basically every major category of debt. They broke the respondents down by state to calculate an average total debt load, which we then mapped across the country. As one can see, people living in states colored dark red and pink have higher debt burdens (as much as $500k) compared to light and dark blue, where the debt load is less than $50k.

Hawaiians have by far the highest debt, averaging $869,250. This makes sense considering the Aloha State’s location in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and the fact that our numbers take into consideration mortgages. There’s only so much land someone can buy before demand outstrips supply and drives up price (the new land constantly created by volcanoes notwithstanding). People with the second highest debt burden live in Maryland ($284,851), but that’s almost four times as small as Hawaii. Further down the list, there are some obvious clusters of states, with five states surpassing $100k and an additional six between $50k-$100k. The rest all have lower debt levels.

There really isn’t a clear pattern on the map: there are low-debt states sitting right next to high-debt states. The lowest debt-burdened people live in Washington, DC ($1,611), followed closely by Alaskans ($2,286). What could these places possibly have in common? The one exception can be found in the Deep South, where a cluster of blue and dark blue states all group together. Louisianans have the third lowest debt burden in the country, averaging only $6,140 per person. Other than that, personal debt levels swing wildly from state to state.

Here’s the key insight. A few different factors explain the wide-ranging differences. For example, people living in New York City probably don’t own a car, and many still rent an apartment. Compare that to Texas and Oklahoma, where most people own a home in the suburbs from which they commute to work in vehicle they also own. Simply, put, lifestyle choices go a long way in determining debt levels. Not only that, there are good kinds of debt that build equity—like paying a mortgage—and add to overall net worth. Having very little debt is great if you consistently save money.

Top 10 States Where People Have the Most Debt
1. Hawaii: $869,250

2. Maryland: $284,851

3. Texas: $185,584

4. Oklahoma: $174,839

5. Indiana: $166,844

6. Nevada: $165,740

7. Minnesota: $113,455

8. Illinois: $98,309

9. Maine: $91,183

10. Virginia: $81,194

All of this suggests that average debt depends more on an individual’s choices than where he or she lives. People can achieve extremely low debt levels if they are in expensive urban areas or rural towns. If both the bureaucrats in Washington, DC and frontiersmen in Alaska can do it, then we bet you can too.”

https://howmuch.net/articles/americans-debt-by-state

#140 William won't tell on 12.27.17 at 10:35 am

And Garth said “All this has happened while Americans cut the corporate levy by 40% and reduce middle-class taxes by up to half while retaining mortgage-interest deductibility and letting companies write off expenses over months, not decades.”

Interesting point. It’s worse than that though. Americans are equally pissed off because OUR houses are over a MILLION BUCKS in many places and we can indebt ourselves better than they can.

Oh wait…what YOU said is that Americans have dropped Corporate taxes by 40% AND reduced Middle Class taxes to boot.

I wonder who will make up the tax difference now?

You know what I mean, WHO WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEBT INCURRED IN AMERICA because of these changes to taxation?

Honestly Garth, you really need to check you Rethuglican mindset more carefully before you post such brazen right wing propaganda.

Debt is Debt. Whether it’s a greater fool buying a house that is stupidly over priced or a government dropping taxes and increasing the debt load (again).

Comparing the two and suggesting that America’s debt is better than Canada’s is…well…just partisan crapola.

#141 LivinLarge on 12.27.17 at 11:04 am

I’m with you 100% Ace, “And I pay less tax on my dividend income than you lot do working.”…the only thing better is cap gains. I had my fill of being a landlord in about 6 months in ’91 and wouldn’t do that again.

Divs and cap gains are so antithetical to T2’s pogrom to eventually tax every dollar the same as every other one that IMO both sources are in the cross hairs for attack soon.

#142 For those about to flop... on 12.27.17 at 11:21 am

Recent Sale Report / Realtor Assistance Needed.

This house was featured in the Interpol article and just got a new owner in time for the holidays.

3550 Pearkes Pl,Coquitlam.

Paid 830k in February 2016

Were asking 780k

Sold 15 days ago for???

Go on one of you crusty realtors out there ,let your hair down and help out The Flop.

It would really Pearkes me up…

M43BC

https://www.zolo.ca/port-coquitlam-real-estate/3550-pearkes-place

#143 Guy in Calgary on 12.27.17 at 11:28 am

“At the centre is the refusal to accept that an income disparity should exist, with the 1% and the 99% drifting ever-further apart upon an ocean of inequality.”

This is a huge problem. QE has made this problem much worse and the gap continues to widen. Accommodative policy created to make wealthy bankers, politicians etc. even more wealthy. I am all for free enterprise but at some point, people start getting pissed off. Billionaires add zero’s to their balances (the good kind) while people starve to death. Morally this is an issue and a generation is getting pissed off about it. Unless you are an billionaire heiress, there is not much you can do other then voice your displeasure.

Akon, with an $80M net worth, is able to provide 80 million Africans with electricity yet we still let people starve. The 1% hoard enough wealth to put food on the table for those who need it and give them a chance to start a life. They would have plenty enough left over to live a lavish life we can only dream of.

The rich have been stealing money from the middle class through taxes and labour forever. People are trying to make it more fair. If we are eating the truly rich and the money is going to something worth while, I am all about it. Unfortunately, it isn’t so how can one support it?

The issue is more complex then “eat the rich because of entitlement.”

#144 LivinLarge on 12.27.17 at 11:33 am

Howard, “brains seems to be attacking the hardworking well-off while leaving alone his own trust funds”. Actually under his watch the taxes on trust fund income has increased enormously as of 2016. Where once the trust fund income could be structured to take advantage of the graduated tax rates, now the income is taxed at the highest marginal rate period.

This CRA change initiated with the 2014 budget so may have been brought to us by “O’l Helmet Head” but T2 certainly didn’t squash those provisions when he had the chance to.

So, trust income taxation has totally changed in just less than 2 years. It has changed to the point where the financial benefits of trusts are almost eliminated now and replaced with non grandfathered much higher tax rates.

#145 Renter's Revenge! on 12.27.17 at 11:35 am

“So in the spirit of constructive rebellion, and a ringing defence of the downtrodden affluent, (some of whom may actually be old, white, hetero guys)”

Apparently, even after brainwashing multiple generations with political correctness, women are still attracted to white, muscular, rich men:

http://nationalpost.com/health/the-year-in-no-duh-science

Keep fighting the good fight, SJWs!

#146 conan on 12.27.17 at 11:52 am

I think as time goes on we will start talking about which Western Nation will be the first to fall.

It is not going to be Canada. We are going to be a beacon of light for the rest of the world, and millions of high end people, will want to move here.

I believe Trump’s policies will hasten the mini economic Dark age that is coming our way. At the same time his Wall might end up making him look like a genius.

IMHO the first Western nation to fall is Venezuela. This could spread North and turn Mexico into something from Mad Max.

#147 maxx on 12.27.17 at 12:30 pm

#25 I’m stupid on 12.26.17 at 5:36 pm

“I believe in tax fairness. In the spirit of fairness why are taxes only collected on earnings? Wouldn’t it be fair to take net worth into account when determining taxes to be paid?”

So do I! But come back with that one when you manage to save up the money you’ve already been taxed on.

“Someone could have a billion sitting in a bank account and receive OAS tax free.”

It’s clawed back, remember? (Even a billion sitting in a checking account at .01% earns 100K)

“Or someone making 250k and pay 50% taxes
While a couple could earn 125k each and pay way less taxes.”

Tissues on sale in aisle 4.

“Or a household earning 200k and renting while another makes 100k but got 600k in value increase on their principal residence tax free.”

It’s a choice and in this case, risk-takers *legally* win, because idiot ptb quietly promoted re above all else over the past 17+ years. Risk-takers don’t always win……and other people’s legitimate wealth is none of your or anyone else’s business. Really.

“A saver gets ruined by inflation while a spender gets reward with the collapse of interest rates.”

Not quite. Savers get broadsided by stupid-low rates, but because of their nature, generally find ways to obtain what they need and want in life outside of “retail for everything” whilst still protecting their wealth. On the other hand, borrowers are about to be disemboweled.

“Government should create a tax system that’s fair instead of attacking income only.”

Fair, fair, fair, share, share, share. That fiscal dog poop philosophy really ought to begin at the top, so it becomes crystal that the originators of that silly carrot only ever planned to use it to suck voters in – and suck ’em in they did.

Savers and wealthy risk-takers who don’t fall into the mega-wealth class pay plenty. They have always been the true backbone of economic health.

I do agree that the extremely wealthy pay too little, and equally, those who admire the ministry of silly socks spend their time whining and bitching rather than working on becoming rich.

#148 Loonie Doctor on 12.27.17 at 12:37 pm

#133 No Name
Interesting read, end especially in teresting chart about social mobility by country. Canada not sitting well, but can cut both ways I guess.

The Social Origins of Inventors [pdf]
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/aghion/files/social_origins_of_inventors.pdf
—————————————————————

It is an interesting paper. Amongst the 13 first world nations looked at, Canada ranked 4th in social mobility. That is pretty good. Social mobility was on the vertical axis and we are at a similar level to the top 3 countries. We were more middle of the pack on inequality on the horizontal axis. The vast majority of the worlds population that doesn’t live in the first world countries studied wouldn’t even make it onto the chart I suspect.

The overall conclusion of the paper was also interesting – the role of parental income was minimal once education levels and IQ were accounted for.

It all backs up the notion that with a public school system and now large supplements to make post-secondary education more affordable by the masses that Canada is pretty good.

#149 For those about to flop... on 12.27.17 at 12:44 pm

Recent Sale Report/Realtor Assistance Needed.

Here’s another one that went 15 days ago,the realtors must of been handing out the good stuff that day.

Pretty sure this is one of the ones Whipster asked me if I was aware of this situation and I had already done a post on it.

Paid 1.32

Eventually Asking 1.29

Sold on December 12th for ???

Pretty sure Chumbawamba did a song about these guys.

I get ground down,but I get up again…

M43BC

899 50b Street, Delta paid 1.32 ass1.31 asking 1.29

Aug 30:$1,550,000
Oct 25: $1,490,000
Change: – 60000.00 -4%

https://www.zolo.ca/delta-real-estate/899-50b-street

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDA1VlBMUQ==

#150 Guy in Calgary on 12.27.17 at 12:47 pm

I think some of the people that read this blog should try to be a little more proud to live in a country that promotes diversity in a Trumpian world.

#151 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.27.17 at 1:15 pm

@ #149 conan on 12.27.17 at 11:52 am

I don’t consider Venezuela to have ever been a “western” country, even before it collapsed. I use the economic definition of western world, which includes only first world, or developed countries. These are easily identified as countries that people are trying to get into, not countries people are leaving to find a better life elsewhere. By this definition I also don’t consider Mexico to be part of the western world.

Sweden is my top choice for first western country to collapse for several reasons. Its neighbours (Norway, Finland and Denmark) have made public comments about their intention to close the border if Sweden collapses. Sweden has the highest rate of taxation in the western world, with accompanying social program costs. The news is filled with reports of violent crime and grenade attacks. The federal police commissioner has gone on TV to beg for more resources, admitting they have lost control of the country. They are the most feminist nation on earth.

#152 Karma on 12.27.17 at 1:32 pm

Garth,

One day can you write about this topic;

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-risks-of-buying-home-thats-too-big-1514390571

Thanks

#153 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 12.27.17 at 1:41 pm

WE’RE TRUMPED!?

Check out this item from the People’s Broadcasting Network of Canada.

Truth from the mouths of babes it seems here.

The Trump tax cuts enacted into law last week have caused ALL of the major US trading partners, from Canada, to China, to Germany to begin to at least THINK about their corporate tax and other tax rates. The big question: should we cut taxes too?

For example check out the Chinese new media coverage on this topic. Interesting times coming up?

Maybe the Canadian Deep State will take note before the US behemoth leaves nothing but tire treads on our collective backsides.

Apologies to snowflakes and selfies everywhere.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/canada-trump-taxes-1.4463400

#154 I’m stupid on 12.27.17 at 1:49 pm

#150 Max

The point I was trying to make is that our tax system only looks at one aspect of a households finances for tax purposes.

#155 Yorkville Renter on 12.27.17 at 1:59 pm

tax fairness – wouldnt that be we all pay the same percentage, regardless of income?

also consumption taxes are the fairest of all…

#156 NoName on 12.27.17 at 2:20 pm

#151 Loonie Doctor on 12.27.17 at 12:37 pm

If you liked that paper maybe you’ll like this. it will take you only 37min of you life, but me thinks it will be time well wasted.

press paly
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/no-new-ideas/

#157 Expat on 12.27.17 at 2:21 pm

“There’s a major anti-corporatism unleashed now, altering the face of commerce. Ride-sharing vs the taxi business. Room-sharing vs hotels. Cryptocurrencies vs central bankers. Social media vs corporate news. At the centre is the refusal to accept that an income disparity should exist”

No, at the centre is a generation that can’t afford taxis, hotel rooms or cable TV. So they share that stuff, which makes it affordable. It’s not a refusal to accept income disparity but the RESULT of income disparity. They’ve accepted it and are learning to lower their standards and live with it.

#158 Bob Dog on 12.27.17 at 2:21 pm

Perhaps young Canadians are a bit miffed about the billions of dollars in untaxed unearned wealth without work awarded to some while the government wages all out war on the young.

Honestly I cant understand why any Canadian under the age of 40 bothers to go to work at all.

Until politicians are prosecuted for their crimes against Canada, I don’t see any attitudes changing.

#159 crossbordershopper on 12.27.17 at 2:21 pm

Canada has the oddest most detailed tax forms, the US under trump can truely be done on one page. and thats the detailed itemized deduction one too. schedule A.
Canada is crazy overtaxed place, go to the USA, where you can still write off your multiple homes, including the prop tax you pay in Canada on your residence up here.
Why anyone would still be in Canada moving forward into 2018 and onwards is weird.
Florida has zero personal income tax rate. ZERO. the average guy with his mortgage write off, (huge) 401K, etc doesnt pay more than 12% under trump. total net after deductions.
Canadians talking crazy, 30 40 50 50% plus, why would you ever work for someone else, get paid, and then the goverment takes half of that, should stay home

#160 Stan Brooks on 12.27.17 at 2:28 pm

#126 Howard on 12.27.17 at 6:25 am

Jagmeet is a lawyer.

T2 is a simpleton/Zoolander type of politician who has absolutely no clue in life.
He could not complete engineering in 10 years! It speaks volumes of his intellectual capabilities.

And when such a simpleton tells ALL lawyers and doctors that they are tax cheats, supported by his incompetent arrogant elitist uber rich finance minister who runs Canada like his own company/not his own but his dad’s company, he never did anything on his own like the trust fund guy, it hurts.

Both T2 and Jagmeet are dangerous to your wealth.

But T2 is an absolute insult to ANY intelligence and specially to the province of Quebec.

Probably the single native french speaking person with the lowest IQ that I am personally aware of.

#161 LivinLarge on 12.27.17 at 2:37 pm

Since this blog is at least in focus dedicated to RE issues and in light of the recent commitment by the Feds of billions to tackle housing concerns, I thought this might be timely to share: http://www.urbancentre.utoronto.ca/pdfs/researchassociates/1984_Hulchanski_Housing-in-.pdf

It’s old, long and maybe too dry for the complainer cohort here but it at least puts into perspective how the RE issues and problems haven’t changed much since the mid 1960s or earlier.

Nothing changes so much as it stays the same. The Feds are going to throw money at the problem, that’s a given but will they also look to the past for what just didn’t work and avoid doing that stuff again???? This report covers the T1 years so, IMO, there is a better than even money chance that T2 will fall into the same traps T1 did.

The next 2 years are going to be fun to watch, that’s for certain. I missed the problems of the 70s and early 80s and I am now set to miss the problems of the 10s and 20s. I bought my current house in 97 at the bottom of one RE meltdown and paid it off in 2014 so, I am sitting very comfortably to say the least. I can’t say as much for my daughter though.

#162 Fake News Again on 12.27.17 at 3:35 pm

When will people understand these tax increases are 100% to support the parasite called GOVT.

You mean like education, health care and national security? – Garth

#163 CHERRY BLOSSOM on 12.27.17 at 3:35 pm

DELETED

#164 conan on 12.27.17 at 3:56 pm

#163 Stan Brooks on 12.27.17 at 2:28 pm

And…. his government is 10 thousand times better then what Harper bought to the table.
Are you looking forward to 3rd party status after 2019?
Cause if you are representative of what the Conservatives want to be……………..

#165 Newcomer on 12.27.17 at 4:12 pm

#158 Yorkville Renter on 12.27.17 at 1:59 pm
tax fairness – wouldnt that be we all pay the same percentage, regardless of income?
——-
Let’s imagine you, me and Garth live on a farm and we share the water bill. You cultivate 5 fields, I cultivate 1 field and Garth cultivates 10 fields (all fields produce the same yield per field). Should we each pay 33% or should we pay different amounts based on how much of the water we use?

A person who earns a lot of money uses a larger share of community resources to get the money (think about the cost of educating employees, the cost of maintaining roads that customers use to drive to stores, etc.) so we have decided it is fair that those of us who benefit more from those resources pay a larger percentage of those costs.

What am I growing? – Garth

#166 Stan Brooks on 12.27.17 at 4:16 pm

I am not promoting conservatives. I don’t like herr Harper.

Why every constructive feedback is received with name calling and counter accusation in this god forsaken brain frozen place?

I am looking for nothing in/from Canada.
There are much better places in this world where actually you can get a life, not a mortgage @TM.

Good luck. You will need it.

#167 For those about to flop... on 12.27.17 at 4:26 pm

at 4:12 pm
#158 Yorkville Renter on 12.27.17 at 1:59 pm
tax fairness – wouldnt that be we all pay the same percentage, regardless of income?
——-
Let’s imagine you, me and Garth live on a farm and we share the water bill. You cultivate 5 fields, I cultivate 1 field and Garth cultivates 10 fields (all fields produce the same yield per field). Should we each pay 33% or should we pay different amounts based on how much of the water we use?

A person who earns a lot of money uses a larger share of community resources to get the money (think about the cost of educating employees, the cost of maintaining roads that customers use to drive to stores, etc.) so we have decided it is fair that those of us who benefit more from those resources pay a larger percentage of those costs.

What am I growing? – Garth

//////////////////

Pink pumpkins…

M43BC

#168 Stan Brooks on 12.27.17 at 4:30 pm

#168 Newcomer on 12.27.17 at 4:12 pm
#158 Yorkville Renter on 12.27.17 at 1:59 pm
tax fairness – wouldnt that be we all pay the same percentage, regardless of income?
——-
Let’s imagine you, me and Garth live on a farm and we share the water bill. You cultivate 5 fields, I cultivate 1 field and Garth cultivates 10 fields (all fields produce the same yield per field). Should we each pay 33% or should we pay different amounts based on how much of the water we use?

A person who earns a lot of money uses a larger share of community resources to get the money (think about the cost of educating employees, the cost of
maintaining roads that customers use to drive to stores, etc.) so we have decided it is fair that those of us who benefit more from those resources pay a larger percentage of those costs.

————————-

What an astonishing stupidity.

People can generate exactly 5-10 times your income (I have seen fees for end clients in the higher 4 / lower 5 digits per day) by using exactly zero Canadian education, roads or services.

Do such people have to pay more than 50 % taxes on their income?
Absolutely not.

So they live abroad.

I know bunch of government employees who produce nothing and consume a lot – education, road, services, water to flush the toilet after their crap.

Good bye.
Good luck in finding stupid to subside you.

#169 torontorocks on 12.27.17 at 4:38 pm

#78, T, you are absolutely right. my father used to say in your youth, live like an old man, in your old age, like a young man. harvest the fruits of your labour. I studied, I worked, I hustled, I had friends that loved to hang out and sure, I did have my fair share of good times, but within limits making sure that the eye on the prize was maintained. that takes discipline, maturity and inner strength. Trudeau and his ilk and supporters benefit from their family’s wealth, he’s never amounted to SHIT. Morneau? What has he done other than shepherd his father’s business with an army of advisors. so its ok for them to sprinkle my hard earnings amongst the do-nothings as long as their cash is safely ensconced somewhere else. they’re the worst kind of socialist- a white, bullshit type that pretends to be democratic but is nothing more than a passive aggressive communist. “here, take this guys shit, but lets leave my stuff out of it”.

this whole place is a joke – from the next generation of potheads to their piped piper of nothing, leading them to greener pastures paid for by everyone else.

the USA marches on, despite the static and the noise and we’ll just continue to be subjugated by our ruling class of dogs. castoffs from home country who’ve already plundered the resources for themselves and now good luck to those trying to play catchup.

smoke and mirrors. and you all voted for him.

#170 Damifino on 12.27.17 at 4:47 pm

#169 Stan Brooks

I am not promoting conservatives. I don’t like herr Harper.
—————————-

Well, who did! But Herr Harper is toast. We moved past him two years ago. It’s now Herr Scheer, just a regular dude from Saskatchewan. He’d like to be your friend.

#171 Newcomer on 12.27.17 at 4:47 pm

What am I growing? – Garth
——–

As the other thing is not legal yet, I’d have to guess cauliflowers.

#172 SoggyShorts on 12.27.17 at 4:52 pm

#25 I’m stupid on 12.26.17 at 5:36 pm
I believe in tax fairness. In the spirit of fairness why are taxes only collected on earnings? Wouldn’t it be fair to take net worth into account when determining taxes to be paid?
#58 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 12.26.17 at 7:24 pm
#29 Stan Brooks on 12.26.17 at 5:46 pm
*********************************
If 2 people earn the same, but one saves and the other blows it all, the saver should get taxed again? Screw that.
BTW they already do get taxed again whether it’s on interest, property taxes, capital gains or w/e.
Adding a further tax just for not spending every dime you make is bull.

It’s pathetic when people focus on bringing others down instead of improving their own choices.

#173 Calgary Rip Off on 12.27.17 at 5:11 pm

“The differences between the two countries are legion – just look at health care, for example. But it really boils down to one thing: Canadians lack confidence. We elect guys who promise more support, more structure and bigger government. So, we need higher taxes – which voters want other people to pay.”

That’s one opinion. The other is that colder climates breed collective group thinking. Look at Scandinavia or Russia. People survive by depending on others. Things that wouldnt be tolerated in the United States such as socialized medicine(too many people) and extreme left wing views on women in the workforce(that line of thinking will be run out of town on a rail in the southern USA) are accepted in Canada(by some).

The next step is getting more taxes by the Marijuana legalization. It is about time. This is another billion dollar enterprise which will help in many ways. Less wasted court time and legal hassles. Better purity. More taxation. Having marijuana illegal is like saying nutmeg should be illegal. Only in Saudi Arabia.

Canadians lacking self confidence? Where exactly? As an American I experienced quite the opposite in British Columbia. B.C. is a pseudo pretend Great Britain with plenty of arrogance. Really depends on which province you are in your experience. B.C. is the worst for outsiders. Especially Vancouver Island. That should be renamed Zombie Island. “Island Time”=either no money; apologetic Burger King employee that is an expert in burger flipping with no other aspirations(customer is God); or loads of money and moved there as a retiree and doesnt need to be dependent of the native infrastructure for their cash flow. The last is ok, the other 2 are lousy Vancouver Island=Alcatraz.

#174 Fish on 12.27.17 at 5:33 pm

#171 Stan Brooks on 12.27.17 at 4:30 pm
#168 Newcomer on 12.27.17 at 4:12 pm
#158 Yorkville Rent

Let’s imagine you, and T2 and wild Bill live on a farm and we share the water bill. Etc.etc.etc

#175 Yorkville Renter on 12.27.17 at 6:51 pm

168 – newcomer – the analogy is weak.

I make $$$$ out of my home office and pay for the electricity I use… if I make $300k and use no resources, under your analogy, I should pay less as a percentage versus a farmer whi makes $100k and uses many resources.

If I make $300k and my % is the same as someone making $30k, my tax bill is 10x higher – but same percentage… how is this unfair?

#176 Tax Guy on 12.27.17 at 6:55 pm

Tax tax tax… welcome to Canada!

#177 Ace Goodheart on 12.27.17 at 7:18 pm

RE: #142 LivinLarge on 12.27.17 at 11:04 am

“Divs and cap gains are so antithetical to T2’s pogrom to eventually tax every dollar the same as every other one that IMO both sources are in the cross hairs for attack soon.”

I don’t see that. I think he might tax capital gains, but only capital gains earned by people like you and me. Wild Bill is a trust fund kid and so is T2, and Bill’s wife is one of the heir’s to a very large family fortune that is again all corporate type stuff.

That is why they are so intent on taxing small businesses and doctors and lawyers and accountants (and apparently IT professionals). They can tax these “1% wealthy people” (that is a joke BTW, these people are NOT the 1%, Bill and T2 and those like them are the 1%) without taxing themselves. Neither Bill nor T2 will ever own or operate a small professional corporation in Canada.

What they will never do, is lower their own net worths and incomes, by instituting taxes that result in them paying more on their dividend or capital gain incomes (or their families’ dividend and capital gain incomes).

So they likely will figure out a way to tax your and my capital gains (but exempt themselves) and they will likely not touch dividends (because you can’t easily separate the dividends that we earn from the dividends that they earn).

That is my prediction anyway. I also expect them to play around with options, giving themselves methods of optioning out their cash payments in a tax exempt manner (this may be how they get around the capital gains issue, they may just create some sort of share capital to options transfer that can only be exercised by controlling share holders) and then just option out any retained earnings that they want to change into a capital gain for themselves, avoiding any new inclusion law.

At any rate, it will be interesting to see how they manage to tax the rest of us without doing themselves in. I always try to earn my income by aping the wealthy, because I know they never knowingly tax themselves and their children usually run our governments.

#178 LivinLarge on 12.27.17 at 11:18 pm

Seems logical Ace but they have already done it in spades. Trusts are no longer taxed at the tax rate of the party receiving the funds but at the maximum tax rate of the province recieved in. No longer is the trust really treated as a sepparate tax payer except in the worst sense. So, capgains and divs income from a trust is taxed as though the trust is a 1%er when they are far more likely to be a medium 99%. No benefit from capgains or divs in a trust…ecerything is taxed worst than interest is for most folks. Lots of widows really short on income now because of that change.

BTW, only a tiny proportion of trusts are multimillion dollar things like T2 or Morneau seem to have. The vast majority are maybe around a million used to give a widowed spouse a decent income in their final years.

#179 Blessed Canadian Millenial on 12.28.17 at 4:56 am

Jay (not that one) on 12.26.17 at 5:53 pm
Let’s not be dishonest here.

If we all want lower taxes, then we need austerity first — just like in a normal household. If I want to take a pay cut without going into debt, I’ve got to cut my spending, *then* quit my job. Along the way, I’ll even pay back debt. What a concept!

This has been my top legislative priority for a decade. I voted for Mike Harris when he balanced budgets, and I voted for Jean Cretien and Paul Martin when they balanced budgets. I don’t care about the ideology you spout, I want to see results.

But in the meantime, it’s hypocrisy to attack Trudeau for not doing the thing the CPC didn’t do in 8 years.

——————-

No, it’s a hypocrisy of anyone on the left, along with the mainstream media, to attack the Cons for running deficits whilst cheering for Liberals when they (the Liberals) run deficits.

The Media has lost all credibility.