So the assault on the right to own property, which you don’t have, entered a new phase this week. First Vancouver, then Toronto. Not only does government strictly control rents. Now it seeks to control property owners. This should probably alarm you.
“The city will not sit on the sidelines,” thundered YVR mayor Gregor Roberston to the deplorables, “as more than 25,000 empty and under-occupied properties hold back homes for people who live and work in Vancouver. We need a tax on empty homes to encourage the best use of all our housing, and help boost our rental supply for locals.”
And there it is. North America’s first tax on people who own houses but don’t use them enough. The actions this week were, well, Stalinesque. City Hall sent letters to property owners insisting they declare if a dwelling is used as a principal residence, or rented out for at least six months of the year. Anyone who does not send the letter back will have to pay the vacant-house tax equal to 1% of assessed value – which in delusional Van averages $920 per month. If they don’t answer truthfully, they’ll pay a fine of $10,000 a day. Plus an extra $250 penalty just for the hell of it.
The tax is an absurd attempt to get more rental units on the market in a city where real estate speculation became an obsession, then a disease. There’s no proof people owning under-utilized properties will immediately look for tenants, or sell them off because of the tax. Nobody knows. And critics correctly point out this is just, really, a tax on the wealthy masquerading as a benefit to the renter class. Someone with a condo in downtown Vancouver because staying there for business three nights a week is cheaper than a hotel, will be whacked. So will those Amazon employees who need a place in town plus one in Seattle. Or folks who spend their summers in Whistler and their winters on False Creek.
Mostly it’s the principal which is unnerving. People who bought personal-use properties, paid market value, shoveled out closing costs and foot ongoing property tax and financing charges are now looking at a staggering tax just for staying there less than 50% of the time. The tax also casts them as social pariah when, in fact, it’s the opposite. A guy living part-time in his Yaletown condo is shelling out the same money for occasional use of city services as the family of four living one floor below who suck up much more. He pays 100% of the tax and yet draws 50% less. The dude is also likely walking to work, not grinding his way across the Port Mann bridge, which is an obvious environmental benefit.
So how, exactly, do people like this rent out their houses or units to avoid the vacant-homes tax? Simple. They can’t. And showboating Gregor knows it. This is just another levy on the rich in a place where social status is measured in real estate. At least for now.
Of course, if Canadians had the actual right to own land (as the Yanks do), such a tax would be unthinkable. But we don’t. Just one more glaring reason why people who put their entire net worth into a single immovable asset – that they don’t really control – are taking a gamble most do not understand. The 180,000 owners receiving those letters this week never imagined such a thing might be possible in a democratic, capitalist nation.
Meanwhile, Toronto watches.
There mayor John Tory is said to be leaning towards a similar tax, aimed mostly to those specker and flipper condo owners who have already been sideswiped by newly-imposed universal rent controls. The province has granted municipalities the right to tax under-used properties and Toronto has a task force working on the scheme, after public consultations plus a survey during the summer.
Government diddling in extremis. The foreign buyers tax. Universal borrowing stress test. Broad-based rent controls. Vacant home tax. Meanwhile mortgage rates creep higher and the population has never been more in debt. What a formula for market implosion – which is exactly what housing affordability advocates want.
The right to own property, were it granted, would be a collar on capricious, kneejerk political action. And that is why the politicians will never grant it.
249 comments ↓
I will say it is desperate times call for desperate measures, to cool down an over-heated R/E market.
Meanwhile… *crickets* … Horgan and Selena do nothing… Looks like it will take them ’14 years’ to figure out what to do…
Acting like they didn’t know there would be consequences to implementing tighter rules in the housing market…
I get the impression the Titanic was designed by a Canadian.
Wonder how long it will be before a single person living in a detached house full time in Van will be considered “not using his/her house enough?”
As of late not one mention of the Paradise Papers revelations and implications of such practices. What gives Garth?! Are we to only rattle the cage when it suits our avoidance stance?
We know that off-shore tax “havens”, as they are appropriately called, are exactly that; a place to stash cash without paying your dues to places WHERE it was made. We also know people (read ELITES) using this mechanism are from around the world of all political stripes.
Govts around the world loose $500B in tax revenues of some $6Trillion(or more) in unannounced funds.
Should we assume that the currency baskets of the worlds FOREX traders are counting on GOVTs resuming QEs around the globe to make up for the difference? What side of the equation do we correct/balance to see growth?
M40AB
Bravo, and amen!
Canada is a stable country, Canada has the principle residence exemption, anyone can purchase property pretty easily. A lot of people see housing as a safe store of value (real estate always goes up right?) and a preferential tax treatment (no taxes on PR sale, but taxes on pretty much everything else outside your TFSA). Eliminate the PRE (or cap it) and make it housing and not a commodity.
I don’t buy your argument on the condo bought and used for business, that’s my opinion and you can have yours also.
“The 180,000 owners receiving those letters this week never imagined such a thing might be possible in a democratic, capitalist nation.”
The Canadian taxpayer also never imagined that “legal” offshore tax havens would allow the wealthy to dodge as much as $6B in annual tax revenue.
The newly elected provincial government in BC seems is clueless about handling this housing crisis in Vancouver. I am not convinced that this step to tax vacant residences will yield anything as most people will find a way to show that it their unit is occupied or rented. But atleast the City is doing something.
I have no problem with this tax. The Gov’t should have put in similar measures a decade ago as the Gov’t in New Zealand did last month to curtail this parasitic foreign “investment”, or more likely money-laundering, turning Vancouver into a big monopoly board. Local people have nothing to fear; just fill in the damned form and there is zero problem. If you doubt that there are tons of vacant homes, condos, on the westside of Vancouver and downtown (particular Coal harbour), I will take you on a personal tour next time you are in Vancouver. Where would you like to go? How about a tour of Point Grey, then near Prince of Wales school, whole swaths on the westside, and Coal harbour as a start. My friend owns a little shop in Coal Harbour, and many huge towers around him have only a few lights on in the evening when he closes for the night. Either everyone is asleep at 9–10pm ,or playing on their Ouija boards in the dark, or perhaps actually, most likely, most are vacant. Without the tourists in the summer my friend would be sunk, as there is so little foot-traffic in the neighborhood. To think that all of these vacant homes don’t contribute to the housing crisis in this city is complete utter BS (the typical BS that comes from the Fraser Institute). The reason why this, to some people, “drastic” measure is being done now, is because zilch was done to restrict anything for the past 12 years, when it was clear to locals that the housing situation was becoming more dire by the year. So bring it on; I doubt that they can enforce too much, but it is at least a start. If other countries like Costa Rica or Mexico also want to do something similar for Canadians who own places there, because of similar pressures, please go ahead….
Sounds like a hot election issue for the Tories. It would be wonderful if all Canadians, including Canada’s neglected aboriginal citizens, had the right to own property instead of being vassals of the fat cat chiefs and councils. In the meantime, let’s hope Vancouver’s outraged citizens take Mayor Moonbeam to court.
Was visiting with my accountant today. She suggested that I purchase a commercial property elsewhere and use the revenue to pay the rent where I want to live… She kinda made sense…
Vacant Homes Are A Global Epidemic, And Paris Is Fighting It With A 60% Tax
Runaway real estate speculation has been filling global capitals with vacant homes, creating artificial shortages in the world’s most sought after cities. The “shortage” has made local home owners wealthy overnight, but it comes at the cost of turning lively cities into empty shells. The city of Paris has decided it’s had enough, and implemented a tax in 2015. They didn’t quite get the results they wanted, so they’re now tripling the tax to 60%.
https://betterdwelling.com/vacant-homes-global-epidemic-paris-fighting-60-tax/
I sort agree lots of empty houses . Rental homes less than 1% in vancouver and listening to your advice . Rent don’t buy it’s a very tough market as there no newly built rental housing only one for sale buy the developers over seas .
Tax tax tax… Canadian stupidity at its best!
Now i understand why Americans think Canadian are stupid.
Renting scene just got better
Is this for real ? When does it take effect ?
New revenue stream for municipalities . Genuis
Canadian Government Intervention……..God help us! What did we do wrong?
The obvious solution to this bare faced tax grab is to sell up ASAP & find alternate accommodation in a less tax grabby locale. Of course, if one is a long term resident who loves the life presumably they do not have any problems qualifying for 50% plus residency time. And if those selling up already have another property to live in somewhere else, the amount they would presumably harvest by selling up would more than cover the cost of a hotel room. I expect any number of under the table spare room rentals to occur – there is little chance that this could be policed effectively, though the next step will likely be ‘undercover’ officers doing ‘stings’ to catch the unwary homeowners. Yep, let serious crime take care of itself while those evil tax evaders are tracked down & suitably penalized.
Doesn’t appear to be a tax on the rich. Just a tax on homeowners rich and poor who own more than one place so no discrimination on the rich there. Overall, this is just a tax grab and all the power to the gouvernment for trying. Like at the federal level going after the self employed, it’s a matter of gouvernment trying to find creative (I suppose some will see this as uncreative) ways to suck in more revenues. We’ll see whether it actually goes through. Unlike a land transfer tax, this becomes a recurring income stream month after month. Considering how high Vancouver homeowner TDSR and GDSR is in general, the poorer (house rich cash poor) and highly leveraged multi single home owners will be screwed. It will be interesting to see the impact of this current tax generation strategy. $920/month average payment? That’s like turning homeowners into renters. Ouch!!!
Quite happy to be renting and watching my balanced and diversified ETF portfolio chug along instead. Nicely sitting at 8.93% at the end of today YTD. Boring as f?Maybe. Better than paying 1% tax on real estate that someone deems isn’t fully utilized? Definitely!
Was looking at the balance of the portfolio and if my year end bonus is the same or better than last year, I may not have to wait till next year to hit seven figures. Christmas might come early. Wunderbar!
Yep, Garth is correct.
You do not own land.
That Freehold lot you think you own?
It is owned by the Queen.
She merely tolerates you being there.
Look it up!
http://www.whoownstheworld.com/canada/
How do they determine if a property is under-habitated? Is there a reward for rats?
The question now is how effective the enforcement of this tax is going to be. Will the city knock on every door to see if someone lives in the unit?
London’s Proposed Increase in Empty Home Taxes
“A proposal by London’s mayor to allow certain boroughs to raise taxes on owners of empty homes won’t have a huge impact, since there aren’t actually that many empty properties in London. Councils currently charge up to 50% extra tax on empty homes. Foreign buyers account for 36% of new homes sales in prime areas”
Vacant houses as a percentage:
London 1.71
Hong Kong 3.67
Toronto 4.44
Los Angeles 6.1
Vancouver 6.49
Sydney 6.92
Paris 7.5
San Francisco 7.9
New York 9.0
https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/73526-london-s-proposed-increase-in-empty-home-taxes-unlikely-to-dampen-luxury-demands
BC has a quirk when it comes to property taxes, where those over 60 can apply to have their tax payments deferred, typically with a charge of 1% (per year?) until the property is sold.
My point is that there may be a fair number of these ‘secondary properties’ or ‘Pieds-a-terre’ in the Vancouver market that are NOT paying 100% for city services, despite minimal use.
If you’re going to start taxing under-used properties, I’d suggest that they start by cross referencing the addresses of under-used properties with those addresses that appear on the list of property tax deferrals.
Vacant House Tax enforcement is devilishly simple:
1) Mail a tax assessment notice to suspected vacant property.
2) If notice is not answered, (i.e.: house is vacant) charge tax.
Collecting, however, is another matter.
While there will be people who get caught in the new tax, for the reasons this article puts forward. Garth neglects to discuss why this tax is being implemented. Metro Vancouver is suffering from a housing affordability crisis and an estimated 25000 units are sitting vacant, as money is parked in Vancouver safe haven real estate. My friend owns a condo in Coal Harbour and he never sees anyone. Street retail is closing since there is no one around.
It’s unreal how much money is getting parked in Vancouver. Last weekend 16 floors of a planned office strata sold out in one day. Lots of offshore money paying $20 million per floor, for 10 units.
Stalynesque? Dear Koba as he was called by the mass murderers he put in place arguably killed 40 million people. Sorry Garth but this tax on vacant homes ain’t in the same league. Stalin is the most superlative mass murdere in history.
I Left Vancouver Because Vancouver Left Me
A personal essay on loving, and leaving, a city after being defeated by its affordability crisis.
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/10/30/I-Left-Vancouver/
This tax is criminal
It will NOT work and will not solve any problems. It will in fact be another tool eventually used to outright confiscate assets from mostly innocent locals. Governments are BROKE because of out of control corruption, borrowing and spending. Now, in classic fashion, they pit us against each other as they get more and more desperate to steal what they can.
Anyone supporting this crooked act will come to realize these scum will eventually come after you soon
NO amount of tax will ever help then and in fact as they get more and more desperate the economy will continue to contract and slowly collapse
You get what you vote for folks. Liberalism / socialism is a fraud and it is collapsing
Nothing is going to stop it
I just picture it being like the scene in Home Alone where the kid has all the cut outs on wheels with the lights on to make the property look occupied. Just close the curtains, turn on the lights, get a blow up doll, stand it up on a toy train going through the house and then you can leave.
Tax avoidance.
Hoarding empty homes in times of affordability and historically low vacancy crises is completely wrong.
This is not what it was intended for, to hold as piggy bank and not use actual dwelling utility.
The market needs this as shelter in these unaffordable and growing cities.
Use proper investment like stocks or gic for investment, not take away shelter for that purpose.
And to think these are all just regular folk that travel etc for part time use is bs. People are abusing this and they know it.
If you think you really ‘own’ property in the USA, try not paying property taxes – or any other assessment – on it. You’ll find out real quick who really controls that property…
The problem isn’t a lack of available rentals, but a lack of rentals with affordable rents. One cannot expect an owner to rent a $500k condo for $1000 a month. It’s just not feasible. The same problem exists in Victoria.
Meanwhile all levels of government continue to tack on fees and levies to try and quench their thirst for revenue. In the end someone has to pay.
I’m starting to think the real answer is a tax on idiots. You just have to look at who has been elected in both Ottawa and BC.
A vacancy tax could be in the works for Victoria, requiring absentee property owners to pay for leaving their homes empty.
The Union of B.C. Municipalities passed a motion, lead by the City of Victoria, to ask the province to give municipalities the option to impose a vacancy tax similar to Vancouver’s Empty Home Tax
http://www.vicnews.com/news/ubcm-endorses-victorias-resolution-to-tax-empty-homes/
how about short stay accommodation?
air bnb ..hyuk
Gregor is a whore to the developers. They got him elected and on his watch they put up dozens and dozens of souless hi rises, blocking the mountain views. He’s encouraged speculation and when the city is now unaffordable he says we need affordable housing. What an airhead.
I’ve never met a single person in my life who has a spare house kicking around in downtown Vancouver to just crash in on one of those “long days at the office”.
But I don’t manage 7 figure portfolios like you so I guess you have met some.
But tell me Garth, honestly-how many people do you know that actually do this?
People who spend even a few months in their 2nd homes that bounce between Whistler/Vancouver will not have a hard time proving 50% occupancy.
It’s the people with 3+ homes that this will target and you know this.
You know nothing what it’s like being a renter in this city and you never will. Your hilarious examples of these 1 percenters that we should somehow pity are just that. Hilarious.
How much time have you spent in the downtown core of YVR? How weeks upon weeks have you spent biking through the ghost towns of Coal Harbor or the abandoned neighborhoods of Dunbar?
I’ve lived in downtown YVR for 12 years and ride my bike in this city everyday.
Cities are meant to be lived in, not held in a portfolio.
Drastic times call for drastic measures. Myself and the vast majority of this city support taxing someone that wants to keep a 3rd home as a commodity,
If they don’t want to pay the tax then they can rent it out or sell it to someone that will. Who knows, maybe they could then call Turner Investments with their new $1,000,000 and get a real investment vehicle?
mayor Gregor doesnt give two $h!ts for the “little guy”.
Knee jerk reaction to bad press and poll numbers.
He’s been pilloried lately for doing NOTHING about AirBnB, Renovictions, Real Estate Developer buddies, Zero vacantcies, sky high rental rates, foreign ownership, on and on and on……
And oh….yeah…..almost forgot….an election in 11 months that I’m sure has nothing to do with his “furrow browed” concern….
Canadians on welfare who apply for credit card loans or payday loans to pay the extra rent to a millionaire amateur landlord end up having their welfare check reduced…Why?
Because of course, under Canadian welfare law, LOANS are considered taxable income.
So why aren’t condo flippers not having their profits taxed as taxable income if a welfare recipient in Canada takes a credit card debt and that’s considered a taxable income which deducts welfare benefits?
Loans are considered taxable income to welfare recipients, but flipping condos for a profit isn’t taxable. What a disgrace to Canadians who are down on their luck and finances.
@9 Bring_it_on….couldn’t agree more. Bring it on indeed. Long overdue.
I’m OK with this. After selling my house I looked at several condos where the realtor boasted “It’s barely been live in, the owner is from China and just used it a couple months a year”. Vancouver is in an affordability emergency. As long as Poloz drags his feet over rate increases, desperate measures are called for. Of course a ban on all foreign buyers and the AirBnB scourge is also needed.
There most certainly is a housing crisis in Vancouver but this tax will not improve the situation at all. I have nothing to add to Garth’s excellent critique. One thing it will do is generate RE sales. A friend has his permanent residence in Whistler and spends 80% of his time there. His second residence is an alley coach house in Kitsilano purchased two years ago for $1.2 million (now assessed at $1.6). Rather than cough up an extra $16k per year he’s putting the coach house on the market come spring. The buyer will certainly not be one of the many in this city who are suffering from the status quo.
What a joke mayor Robertson and the Vision controlled city council have become.
@#206 Overheardyou
“Thank you to all the commentators as well, your knowledge and experience is very helpful to a new investor. Hope to be able to buy you lunch one day!”
+++++
No Worries.
We can all meet in Belfountain and you can pay Garth can bbq hotdogs for the blogdogs…..
I take mine with mustard
Hey Smoking Man how about a couple more details about the renko chart parameters used to construct the charts you use for forex. How do you determine brick size. Is it based on a certain number of pips for a given currency pair or some level of ATR.
Location, location, location: how the world is tackling issue of empty homes. major cities around the globe have been grappling with the problem of buy-to-leave.
Higher rates of tax for owners and buyers seem to be the preferred choice. In Vancouver, a new tax on empty homes was introduced at the start of this year.
Similar measures are in the pipeline in Australia, where more than 100,000 homes are believed to lie vacant in Melbourne and Sydney, while locals struggle with affordability.
In Paris, the city has recently increased its annual surcharge for owners who keep properties empty. Another measure introduced in cities across the world has been an extra tax for overseas buyers – arguably those most likely to be speculators.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/02/how-the-world-is-tackling-issue-of-empty-homes
Sir Garth:
In Ontario McGuinty did the same thing with the Greenbelt. Farmland in agricultural use for over 150 years was designated as Greenland A and could no longer be farmed. Taxes, and mortgages, still had to be paid. When the farmers objected they were portrayed as clear cutting, toxic waste dumping, strip miners. The urban activists applauded the Province’s Green agenda. Now that central planning initiative is coming home to roost in the urban centres as well.
The point that buying a second house to sleep there 3 nights a week because it’s cheaper than a hotel room makes zero financial sense. Hotels will give you rebates for regular bookings, and, the capital used to buy that houses, if instead invested, will generate you a sum that covers a large amount of your hotel costs. Don’t forget the maintenance costs of owning this second house.
It’s not a tax on the rich.
I respect many points made by your blog, but this one I completely disagree with.
What you fail to realize is that right now, young people need the supply. They cannot wait 4 years for new appartment buildings to be built.
Follow Mortimer on Twitter. His handle is mortimer_1.
He posts empty houses, mind-blowing flips, and sellers accepting bitcoins. You’ll learn some important facts.
Really.
This is probably the most piercing and belligerent attack you have ever penned on canadian society as expressed in its current economic policies and political demagoguery–and the most factual. Stalinesque, certainly, the very highest expression of “little people, big government’, the ever -purer nanny state. Government and it’s political hacks in tandem with the privileged bureaucrats, the “overlords”as you recently named them, are in control, control, control.
No, It’s NOT possible for those”180,000 letters to go out in a democratic, capitalist nation : they went out in Canada, whole ‘nother animal.
Years and years of Liberal rule has had lasting effects, as well as fostering and ingraining unrealistic expectations. Property rights in Canada? My ass.
Careful what you say,Garth… the latter-day Red Guards will come after you. Ah, but you’re too young to remember them. But you do have a mind and cajones.
Congrats.
“The city will not sit on the sidelines,” thundered YVR mayor Gregor Roberston to the deplorables, “as more than 25,000 empty and under-occupied properties hold back homes for people who live and work in Vancouver. We need a tax on empty homes to encourage the best use of all our housing, and help boost our rental supply for locals.”
…………….
25,000 empty houses? what?!
‘I was completely destroyed’: Bitcoin scam victims lose $340K in York Region, police say: Police say tracking down fraudsters or recovering money is likely impossible
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/bitcoin-scam-york-1.4393318
“The city will not sit on the sidelines,” thundered YVR mayor Gregor Roberston to the deplorables, “as more than 25,000 empty and under-occupied properties hold back homes for people who live and work in Vancouver. We need a tax on empty homes to encourage the best use of all our housing, and help boost our rental supply for locals.”
……………
25,000 empty houses? what!?
There sure does seem to be a lot more places for rent than normal here in Vancouver. (at least Craigslist would indicate that) .They don’t look any cheaper though.
I think it might actually work to some extent and here’s to the mayor for his leadership on this tough issue.
According to reports today the biggest problem the city is having so far on this is getting a hold of vacant property owners. Most of them don’t seem to live here.
They are hiring an expensive third party to try and get the word out.
#9 bring_it_on
Thanks for the NZ shout out. :-) However, I think a ban on parking foreign money in residential property is a better idea than this tax, which Garth has pointed out the issues with. Also, what happens when the market turns and people can’t find renters – are they still hit with this tax? Or if there is a loophole for people trying for renters, so then can you avoid the tax by setting a really high rent and actively listing? Absolute can of worms – far better to tackle the root causes than this band-aid solution. Garth doesn’t like the ban on foreign investment in property (“walls don’t work”) – but I think it is the only practical solution for small-ish economies that allow free movement of capital like NZ and I would think Canada. I see no benefit in allowing foreign money to speculate in local property markets. I’m personally very excited NZ is moving forward with it – I (who am nobody important) have been pushing for it for years.
Sounds like a business opportunity. You could become a professional occupier and charge a few hundred bucks a month to spend a few hours each day in several “under-utilized” properities. Collect the mail, make some noise, put out some trash, chat up the neighbours and pretend to live there. Could be a “cousin” of the owner. Sounds kind of far fetched and silly, but then again so does the government telling people how to use property they paid for and continue to pay property tax on.
One in 10 Australian dwellings are empty
Vacant housing rates are rising in our major cities. Across Australia on census night, 11.2 per cent of housing was recorded as unoccupied — a total of 1,089,165 dwellings.
Public awareness of unused homes has been growing in Australia and globally.
In London, Vancouver and elsewhere — just as in Sydney and Melbourne — the night-time spectacle of dark spaces in newly built “luxury towers” has triggered outrage.
This has struck a chord with the public not only because of its connotations of obscene wealth inequality and waste, but also because of the contended link to foreign ownership.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-17/vacancy-tax-wont-solve-australias-empty-housing-problem/8709184
#1 Peter Pan
“I will say it is desperate times call for desperate measures, …”
Or you could say “the ends justify the means”. Tyranny always sounds good if the tyrant appears on your side.
The idea that you can’t buy a house or property and then use it at your own pleasure in Vancouver is horrifying from any stand point. Do they really think people are leaving houses empty if there was a better economic use for them? Maybe some, but the “invisible hand” suggests eventually all capital gets deployed to it’s maximum efficiency. Speculative bubbles always end on their own. They don’t need government intervention.
To put this disastrous theory to the test, let’s say I buy a condo on the mountain in Fernie. There is no way I will use it 50% of the time. But I might like owning my own condo and being able to store my skis and stuff there, so maybe I want it. Should I have to pay a higher tax because I won’t put it in the rental pool and can’t even leave a towel there? The rental pool has it’s own economics which involves them putting the towels there but only when you are not, and very little money in return. Why can’t I decided whether to rent it out? Well, in Fernie you can but you still have to pay a higher tax rate for being a non-resident. This is why I would never own a condo or cabin or vacation property of any kind in BC.
So let’s us follow through what happens when I won’t bring my money to BC and buy a vacation property. If everyone else followed my lead, those vacation properties wouldn’t be built. That means the carpenters and plumbers have less to do, and thus get paid less. Thus, they cannot put their kids in hockey or by a new snowmobile or even pay their own rent. Also if I am not coming to BC because of the higher price of everything due to all the taxes, well that’s money that I didn’t spend at the gas station or grocery or liquor store. I spent that money in Alberta instead. Or Montana.
All top down solutions fail. You can’t control the price of houses in Vancouver from the top. It is the bottom who has to figure out that there isn’t a good reason to try and live there anymore and move to Montana. Or Saskatchewan I suppose if they can’t get a green card.
It’s just a tax grab, and it will do nothing to help the people who figure they can’t afford to live in Vancouver. The solution is simple: Move!
I have an old friend who lives in Jaffray BC. It’s a great spot and right in the heart of vacation home country for Albertains, many lakes, good skiing, excellent nature. But being a local he pays significantly less property tax than I would pay if I bought the house right next door as a vacation home. Like 1/10th. I’m not going to buy, because even with the exorbitant camping fees they charge at the government campgrounds my RV looks like a pretty good investment by comparison.
And of course I tour around the lake with my family on my boat, that lake being Koocanusa. What do I find? Tons of people from both BC and Alberta dry camping on crown land and paying nothing. That is where the RV starts to make sense from a financial point of view. You can thank the natives for that, as bad as they were at negotiating with the British they did get open access to crown land and it also applies to us.
Crazy…. government is getting out of control.
What’s keeping the owner of a condo who’s using it for three days a week, to “rent” it to a brother/son/niece for 1$/month?
@#161 Lisa
“I thought I was doing ok…SIGH.”
++++
Never say never.
Depends on your age and how much you can stuff away each year.
I had nothing saved at age 30.
Nothing.
Lived pay cheque to pay cheque.
Something had to change.
Started hammering money into RRSP’s , reinvesting the tax rebate into RRSP’s .
Borrowed money to max unused portions of RRSP’s ( only borrowed what I could pay off in a year plus reinvested that tax rebate). Eventually topped up the RRSP’s.
Started investing in other portfolio’s.
TFSA’s came along. Jumped on those.
Continued to Contribute to other things.
Doing ok after 26 years .
I’ll retire comfortably in a few more years with a very nice, worry free, investment plan.
Stick to it.
You’ll get there.
I live in a condo in downtown Vancouver.
I still don’t know how they can enforce this. For example, in my building (they passed a new condo bylaw this spring) they restrict the amount of rental unts – which is less than are currently rented out which means no more can be rented untl the number of rented units drops bellow the maximum allowed. So what happens to the owners (and there are many) that can’t rent their suite and are very seldom there?
Do they choose between being fined by the condo association or the city?
Vacant homes tax could help solve Irish housing crisis
It is one of a number of measures that would ensure that 10 per cent of the housing stock not left idle
A vacant property tax exists in many jurisdictions and has recently been introduced in Vancouver which, like Dublin and other parts of Ireland, is experiencing a major housing crisis and spiralling accommodation prices.
In the UK, the use of empty homes officers has enabled local authorities to identify empty units and pro-actively engage with property owners to bring empty homes back into the housing system. In Bolton, North West England, empty homes officers are helping to return an average of 100 empty homes per month to the housing system.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/vacant-homes-tax-could-help-solve-housing-crisis-1.2941369
@YVRcjv 100% agree
51: I too would much rather having a complete ban on foreign ownership in Vancouver (like Weaver had suggested prior to the election). However, with politicians in the pockets of developers, I don’t think this would ever materialize. The vacant homes tax, however imperfect it way be, is better than doing the big zero that has been done for the past 12 years. With this gov’t intervention (which right-winger abhor) it does not mean that in two years from now we are all standing in long lines waiting for our daily rations of beets and turnips.
@Guy in Calgary I thought the exact same thing. Haha.
#123 Stone on 11.08.17 at 7:14 am
A 60/40 split is not just for learning the ropes. Run your 90/10 portfolio from let’s say 2004 to present with an annual rebalance. As the selection of ETFs is a bit sparse back then, I used XBB, XIC, XSP 10/45/45 and used December 30 as the rebalancing date. On a $1,000,000 start balance, the difference is around $16,000 to present day. Is $16,000 worth the volatility of a 90/10 split? If you enjoy marital unbliss, increased stress and everything else that goes with it, be my guest. Peace of mind is worth more than $16,000. With 4 years of investing in a fairly easy market, that is not sound advice. If another 2008-9 hits us again, you will be crying.
______________________________
Anybody can select a 10 year range that suits their argument. Over a long-term period (30 years) a 90/10 will outperform by around 1.5-2% annualized (http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/03/09/how-much-risk-do-you-need-to-take/). Over 30 years that’s $550k to $820k, assuming your $1,000,000 start point.
@ #38
Because of course, under Canadian welfare law, LOANS are considered taxable income.
uhm, no, no they are not. student grants after $2500/yr are. loans? no. see the CRA definition for income.
I also think the posters crying about ‘years of liberal rule are destroying the country’. Since 1980 we’ve had 19 years of Liberals and 18 years of Con federal leadership. Shouldn’t con’s get half the blame??
Communist assholes.
Good luck ever getting rid of a tax once it’s part of the planned revenue.
The way how these incompetent cities, their majors run public transportation they should not be allowed to operate vehicles, not to mention messing with the market.
And I don’t even own a second property.
OPP launch investigation into mortgage fraud
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/opp-launch-investigation-into-mortgage-fraud/article36869812
The Ontario Provincial Police have launched an investigation into fraud allegations involving the use of syndicated mortgage investment funds from the Tier 1 group of companies.
This comes one year after the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO) suspended the licenses of two mortgage brokers – Tier 1 Mortgage Corp. and First Commonwealth Mortgage Corp. – during an investigation into 16 syndicated mortgage investment pools the firms were promoting to investors.
The mortgage pools raised $119-million from 1,500 investors to fund a development group planning to build condominiums and student residences.
A report by accounting firm Grant Thornton, which has been appointed as trustee for the mortgage investors, said the OPP’s anti-rackets branch is investigating a condominium project at 28 McMurray St. W. in Bracebridge, Ont., that was one of the developments funded by the syndicated mortgage loans.
The OPP sent a letter to investors in the McMurray project saying it is trying to identify victims and witnesses who will speak to the police.
I have zero qualms with this move. If anything, it should be more aggressive. Why? Because most countries don’t reciprocate any of these home ownership rights (or anything in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms) to non-citizens.
If a Canadian is working/living in China or Saudi Arabia, we are told that we are guests and we have to follow their cultural and legal laws. If you don’t like it…then leave. But when non-Canadian citizens come to Canada, this great nation is supposed to bend over backwards to accommodate all their idiosyncrasies and wants. This hypocrisy is aggravating.
Something has to be done to help the people that need a place to live and make the situation more like a community. And I agree with most that a tax is needed, paperwork in the making.
Unless ghost town is wanted.
Kudos …. for the major of Vancouver. I hope this tax floods BC. Will be waiting for the BC NDP’s resolution in regards to the high priced housing market. In fact they did mention it in their platform. (If they go through with it, now that is another question!!).
Cheers…
I dont know what’s worse, the Bolshevik style war on property rights, or the those who come here to to type that they like it and want higher interest rates, more tax on foreigners, more legislation etc. The real estate bubble was orchestrated by your government and banks. The shortage of SFD homes is artificial scarcity, this is the 2nd biggest country in the world.
Total control by government is the goal- all the fake shootings have one goal- gun confiscation. After they get the guns, and they will get the guns, because “everyone saw that shooting on CNN” But they have to get the guns first because next they want your cars, thats right, your car:
http://hoaxbusterscall.blogspot.ca/2017/11/bob-lutz-kiss-good-times-goodbye.html
The TRUTH About Canada’s CRUMBLING Economy! – What You’re NOT Being Told
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-truth-about-canadas-crumbling-economy-what-youre-not-being-told/
“Someone with a condo in downtown Vancouver because staying there for business three nights a week is cheaper than a hotel, will be whacked. So will those Amazon employees who need a place in town plus one in Seattle. Or folks who spend their summers in Whistler and their winters on False Creek.”
……
Fear-mongering at it’s best! You realize, of course, there is an appeal process in place so that those with legitimate reasons for not utilizing it 6 months of the year, will have an opportunity to explain their situation. Otherwise, this will definitely increase the available housing in Vancouver…the goal of the new law. I fail to see a legitimate downside to this.
sorry jwk # 31. there’s nothing “quick” about losing
your property .in the states for non-payment of residential or farm property. Like Ontario, its a slowprocess, lots of appeals, “work-outs” with small payments, arbitration, and so forth . Your argument, in the context of what Garth is arguing, is poorly chosen. Down there property rights exist meaningfully, unlike here, where they are rather looked down on.
Smartalox on 11.08.17 at 6:48 pm
BC has a quirk when it comes to property taxes, where those over 60 can apply to have their tax payments deferred, typically with a charge of 1% (per year?) until the property is sold.
==================================
1.The program is available to residents over the age of 55, not 60.
2. The city gets their money from the province. It doesn’t hurt cities one bit.
3. The rate this year is 0.5% not 1%
Sebastien, “Will the city knock on every door to see if someone lives in the unit?”…basically they don’t have to go through any of dilgence. Unless you’re an accountant or Tax collector, you are likely unaware of the intracacies of the assessment process, especially the ‘Notional Assessment’ process. In a nutshell, when the tax collector wants someone to start paying a tax that they have been avoiding they issue a Notional Assessment. A NA is nothing more than the tax collector’s wildest lavish guess to the maximum you could possibly owe. Once issued, you owe that money unless you can subsequently prove beyond a doubt that you don’t owe it. At the CRA, at least when I was there in the mid 90s, the taxpayer had something like 21 days to file a notice of appeal before the collector could start issuing things like Federal Garnishments of bank accounts and even seize cash registers etc.
So, there is no requirement for tax authorities to first prove you owe taxes, their wildest guess is sufficient unless you challenge it.
Well that was dramatic! Stalinesque? Lol
I read today that Vancouver will be seeing a lot of new residential building in 2018. The article said this should help the shortage in available properties. The problem is that we all know what will happen; speculators will have more property they can flip. Sometimes ugly government meddling is needed, to look after its own. And I hate saying that.
History has a long record of Gov’t often desperate attempts at fixing problems through taxation, even though Gov’ts are the authors of the same problem.
The Gov’t -created problem is often identified early on, trends become obvious, and then at the 11th hour comes the “tax” to placate the majority of morons.
Medieval times had far more pragmatic solutions to this time- honoured mess of failed leadership.
I have a three bedroom house but only use the master bedroom. Do you think they’ll come after me for NOT using 2/3 of my house?
Why become a target… get out while you can. If they see more than 2 cents in your account, some Liberal is devising a way to take it from you. (after all, it’s only fair)
#137 Old Ron the Realtor on 11.08.17 at 9:01 am
#118 Fake News Again: When you get out more around this tiny planet, you begin to realize that the best words you will ever hear upon returning to this country are uttered by the nice lady in the Canadian Border Services Agency uniform :
“Welcome home”
We are so blessed to live here, and you are so wrong.”
In the future, all will be implanted with RFID chips. When returning to the country the friendly CBSA lady will scan you and say, “Welcome Home, you owe $4379 in back taxes, plus a fine. Would you like to pay now or report to the worker’s camp in Tuktoyuktuk to work off your debt?”
Two questions:
1. Is there a limit on how many places you can rent?
2. Is there a minimum you can rent a place out for?
If not, I’ll rent your empty house for $10 a month. In fact, I’ll rent all of them.
Cheaper just to leave the lights and faucet on when you are away than to pay the tax…..LOL
Recent Sale Report.
This one is so fresh zolo hasn’t updated it yet.
3912 Napier St. Burnaby.
Originally asking 1.49 then 1.44 then 1.39
Sold for 1.34
Tax assessment 1.55
Drip ,drip on the wood chip…
M43BC
https://www.zolo.ca/burnaby-real-estate/3912-napier-street
City Hall sent letters to property owners insisting they declare if a dwelling is used as a principal residence, or rented out for at least six months of the year. Anyone who does not send the letter back will have to pay the vacant-house tax equal to 1% of assessed value – which in delusional Van averages $920 per month. If they don’t answer truthfully, they’ll pay a fine of $10,000 a day. Plus an extra $250 penalty just for the hell of it”
Possible response,
“Dear government, this property currently is occupied on an hourly, and daily basis as a short time hotel. In addition to serving a social cause, it is generating badly needed activity for neighbourhood businesses, such as pharmacies, clinics, starbucks, etc. Please feel free to visit(i.e. rent)”
What a social, political, financial and tax mess it’s becoming all across this land called Canada. Nobody cares anymore Garth! We have no leaders steering this ship. To them it’s all about “What’s in it for me?” Liberals and Democrats the losers in our society eating and destroying it from within.
I agree with this tax. Shelter is a basic human need. Why should some wealthy jerk-off be allowed to own multiple properties solely for his own convenience while others can’t find a place to live?
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
Here’s a good opportunity to sell home automation to these empty house owners, including moving and talking dummies.
Vancouver, you are getting it. I love it. Come on Canada, go national.
Garth I truly don’t understand your problem with this tax. Have you strolled through Vancouver lately? I have because I’m kind of looking for tulips at the moment. I can tell you that pretty much every street I go look on has some very obviously empty houses nearly every single block. It’s absolutely outrageous when literally half the Lower Mainland is clogging the bridges trying to get into Vancouver to commute and then get the hell out everyday. Just so some lucky SOB’s who happen to own before the foreign money invasion can keep their little prized nest egg and price out anybody who wasn’t so fortunate. Garth you are totally wrong on this and the mayor is 100% correct Bring It On.
43 Renko charts on 11.08.17 at 7:18 pm
Hey Smoking Man how about a couple more details about the renko chart parameters used to construct the charts you use for forex. How do you determine brick size. Is it based on a certain number of pips for a given currency pair or some level of ATR.
….
Let me get this right. You want take advise from drunken self confest bull shitter extrodinar. A unemplyeed bum who’s living in his sons one bed room apartment cause I’ve pissed away all my loot. Smoking Man is an invented character personifing a authors crazy life style in hopes of more book sales. Have you seen my periscope broadcasts for crying out loud.
My best advise, give your loot to Garth slow and steady if you got time. But If your a gambling man 0.0025 for brick size. You can rebuy with profit of the next brick never using your own loot.
It’s loot go nuts just don’t blame me if you lose it all
Dr Smoking Man
PhD Herdonomics
And there it is. North America’s first tax on people who own houses but don’t use them enough. The actions this week were, well, Stalinesque. City Hall sent letters to property owners insisting they declare if a dwelling is used as a principal residence, or rented out for at least six months of the year. Anyone who does not send the letter back will have to pay the vacant-house tax equal to 1% of assessed value – which in delusional Van averages $920 per month. If they don’t answer truthfully, they’ll pay a fine of $10,000 a day. Plus an extra $250 penalty just for the hell of it.
objections to the tax:
there’s no legal precedent
it’s an assault on peaceful possession
there’s no evidence that it will increase the number of rental units
there’s no promise that it will increase the number of rental units
it presupposes a system to collect the tax
there’s no promise that the system will collect more tax than it costs
I think Gregor Roberston has bitten off more than he can chew.
This tax is a joke, so easy to get around it, all they have to do is to get a rental agreement for $1.00/mth with whomever they want on it.
The house can then stay vacant as it is not the landlords problem as it is now tenanted, the landlord is following the rules now and there is nothing the city can do about it.
There you see, the wealth tax is now $12/yr lol.
This is way too easy!
@#79 big brutha
“…..or report to the worker’s camp in Tuktoyuktuk to work off your debt?”
Nah. Tuk will be underwater by then.
More likely Yellowknife.
They’ll just put a big fence around it like Churchill Manitoba and if anyone escapes…..the starving Diamond miners will eat them.
#63 Vancouver Brit on 11.08.17 at 7:51 pm
#123 Stone on 11.08.17 at 7:14 am
A 60/40 split is not just for learning the ropes. Run your 90/10 portfolio from let’s say 2004 to present with an annual rebalance. As the selection of ETFs is a bit sparse back then, I used XBB, XIC, XSP 10/45/45 and used December 30 as the rebalancing date. On a $1,000,000 start balance, the difference is around $16,000 to present day. Is $16,000 worth the volatility of a 90/10 split? If you enjoy marital unbliss, increased stress and everything else that goes with it, be my guest. Peace of mind is worth more than $16,000. With 4 years of investing in a fairly easy market, that is not sound advice. If another 2008-9 hits us again, you will be crying.
______________________________
Anybody can select a 10 year range that suits their argument. Over a long-term period (30 years) a 90/10 will outperform by around 1.5-2% annualized (http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/03/09/how-much-risk-do-you-need-to-take/). Over 30 years that’s $550k to $820k, assuming your $1,000,000 start point.
——
I wish you well. If it materializes over the next 30 years, I’m happy for you. Everything is possible. We all get there somehow. As long as we enjoy the journey, it’s all good. I just don’t think most people will be able to stomach what you recommended and will bail out when it gets thorny nullifying the potential uptick in return. Then again, they might also do it on a 60/40 portfolio.
In any kind of lawn…most people want the weeds out.
Taxing ” true vacant units ” is a good tool to increase number rent of rentals.
For those who live in 2 places….City mouse and Country mouse…..for all of the benefits you mentioned…are not really vacant….no more than City mouse and cottage mouse….and should be exempt….but some evidence required accordingly.
I support taxing vacant units if they are for speculative purpose.
Toronto has become so unaffordable…..as you have been mentioning for many years now….many people can only afford to rent.
I think I am confused now about your many past messages about ” rent”or “own” question…..you have focused on before.
Remember when “block busting ” was happening during Mayor David Crombie’s era…..not good then either for City or neighborhoods.
Stalinesque……not even close….bit of an overstatement?
Garth
Otherwise still like reading your point of view.
Maybe spending more time in some of Toronto’s poorer neighborhoods needed…..and I know there are fewer.
Very soon SW Ontario will have all the social problems of Western Europe. By design.
Read between the lines.
Leaving Ontario within a year, never coming back.
Education system, infrastructure, environment, healthcare, industry, hydro grid, real estate, all gone to absolute shit in my short life time.
And there’s that little issue about servicing the debt.
Government is the enemy. Free Men on the Land, next big thing in Canada.
Just watch.
#85 John on 11.08.17 at 8:43 pm
I agree with this tax. Shelter is a basic human need. Why should some wealthy jerk-off be allowed to own multiple properties solely for his own convenience while others can’t find a place to live?
—
Where were you during history lessons?
Communists did this social engineering before.
They ended up determining what anyone should be entitled to, all “wealthy jerk-offs” apartments were divided up if the government deemed to exceed individual needs by “community standards”.
Suddenly the government got some new tenants moved into the “excess” room into people’s home, these new tenants started to pay rent… to the government.
There was perfectly “valid” reason: there was shortage of housing and shelter is a basic human need.
Exactly your way of thinking.
#85 John on 11.08.17 at 8:43 pm
I agree with this tax. Shelter is a basic human need. Why should some wealthy jerk-off be allowed to own multiple properties solely for his own convenience while others can’t find a place to live?
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
——
Well, it’s because he’s a wealthy jerk-off and therefore he’s entitled to do with his money as he wishes. Should you become a wealthy jerk-off yourself one day, I can guarantee with 100% assurance you will feel the same way and thumb your nose at all SJWs in existance. I was taught a long time ago that life isn’t fair. Eat or be eaten. The law of the jungle applies to people (sheeple) too. Life can be very cruel for the naive. Survival of the fittest.
april 9th 1974….ontario speculation tax – 50%
cooled that market almost overnight…
do it and get rid of all the other lame taxes..and raise rates 1 full percent dec.1st and get then on with fixing the real issues in the economy masked by all this real estate fantasy…
10 years on and Robertson comes up with a few horse bolted measures. What a hero.
People that travel to Vancouver from amazon on business get there a comodation paid anyway…. I suppose if on per diem they lose out. Amazon announced 1000 New jobs coming to Vancouver which is good to see. Will other neighbourhoods follow this tax or will realtors just be pushing foreigners to invest in other hoods just outside of Vancouver?
Happy Anniversary Fellow Deplorables.
Economic Nationalism vs Globalists. Canada let’s take our country back. Let’s partner up with Trump and make T2 a drama teacher again.
Garth, Garth, Garth.
Fake indignation looks good(or at least we forgive it) in Jason Kenney or Andrew Scheer, but you are just putting on a show for the Fox News crowd.
Take two aspirin and you should be over it by morning!
#98 genbizx on 11.08.17 at 9:18 pm
april 9th 1974….ontario speculation tax – 50%
cooled that market almost overnight…
do it and get rid of all the other lame taxes..and raise rates 1 full percent dec.1st and get then on with fixing the real issues in the economy masked by all this real estate fantasy…
——
That’s interesting. How about charging that 50% tax on the purchase price of residential property to anyone not a landed immigrant or citizen. If they still buy, charge them 50% tax on the selling price should they choose to sell later. Anything irregular like purchase or sale price of $1 would be taxed on average purchase or sale price to eliminate any funny business. Next, do the same on everyone else who owns more than 2 properties (purpose built rentals exempt and only landed immigrants or citizens eligible to buy). Make it effective retroactively so no one can sneak out before it goes into effect. That would be drastic and cruel however very effective. Speculation would shrivel up like a prune. Economy probably would too but who thinks beyond their next meal? Imagine the tax dollars. Anyone from CRA reading this blog and looking for a promotion?
#101 Smoking Man on 11.08.17 at 9:27 pm
Happy Anniversary Fellow Deplorables.
Economic Nationalism vs Globalists. Canada let’s take our country back. Let’s partner up with Trump and make T2 a drama teacher again.
—
Who’s idea was to put him in the office at the first place?
Pink Pumpkins being carved in North Vancouver.
This is another one that was in my Possible Pinkies Folder that the hillbillies out in the valley said would never need to drop their price or even think about taking a loss as ask was well above danger territory.
If you take a quick look at my notes amongst other things it was the low assessment that made me keep it in my Possible Pinkies Folder.
I said at the time someone had to decide if the Panoramic view was worth 2.2 million.
They decided…
M43BC
2355 PANORAMA DR NORTH VANCOUVER paid 1.97 ass1.81 ask2.29
2355 Panorama Drive, North Vancouver
Apr 25:$2,398,000
Nov 7: $2,098,000
Change: – 300000.00 -13%
https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=2355%20Panorama%20Drive,%20North%20Vancouver&filter=1
https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAyOFBKNw=
I can’t predict how any of these measures, taxes, penalties will work, all i know is that something has to be done. The People Republic of Vancouver is being hollowed out at an alarming rate by people who really are in it for the speculation and a place to put excess money.We invited the world, and they came, but no one thought of how to deal with it.
Interesting read.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/technology/china-facebook.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Ftechnology&action=click&contentCollection=technology®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront
The empty house tax is a slippery slope into an area we never want government intervention. Nowhere is it enshrined that Canadians have a right to own property in Canada. Private Capital should be able to do what it wants – If I want to and can afford ten houses, then that is my decision. That is the society we live in. Should your son or daughter who is a lights out hockey player be limited to a certain amount of ice time so as to not offend the players on the other team?
Many, many years ago when I was scouting Central America for beachfront land, I noticed so many foreigners buying up all the ocean front lots, and wondered what it would feel like for the locals feeling priced out. Never thought it would happen in Canada – and never thought policy would be to suggested to control the flow of capital.
I’m as big as a RE bear as you can find – but this type of action has no place in our society because you could parlay the same line of thinking into many areas which is dangerous.
#95 Long Branch Apprentice on 11.08.17 at 9:04 pm
Very soon SW Ontario will have all the social problems of Western Europe. By design.
Read between the lines.
Leaving Ontario within a year, never coming back.
Education system, infrastructure, environment, healthcare, industry, hydro grid, real estate, all gone to absolute shit in my short life time
………………………………
When the population grows by 300,000 per year for a decade or two it creates a strain/scarcity/higher demand on the services/infrastructure you mention in your post. Have we created more schools,hospitals,pipelines,hydroelectric dams,roads and highways,public transportation and affordable housing to accommodate all the newcomers? I think not.
Property rights must not supersede civil & human rights. Wealth is always concentrated in a small number of hands, and since wealth is a source of power, giving them property rights means a tiny minority can wield extreme power to the detriment of everyone else’s civil & human rights. I honestly thought you had more respect for democracy than that, sir…
Pink Pumpkins being carved in North Vancouver.
Ralphie ,Ralphie,Ralphie.
Didn’t I tell you to clean this mess up a few weeks ago ,before anyone in your neighborhood realized anything was amiss in Vancouver Real estate.
After taking another 50k off ,after expenses you are well into negative territory.
I looked after you,treated you with kid gloves.
You were one of my favourite Pumpkins ,but you didn’t handle your business and now our friendship has been ruined.
Way to Wreck it Ralph…
M43BC
1791 Ralph Street, North Vancouver paid 1.52 ass 1.55 Now asking 1.49
Jul 25:$1,689,000
Oct 6: $1,599,000
Change: – 90000.00 -5%
1791 Ralph Street, North Vancouver
Jul 25:$1,689,000
Oct 17: $1,549,000
Change: – 140000.00 -8%
1791 Ralph st,North Vancouver
Jul 25:$1,689,000
Nov 6: $1,499,900
Change: – 189100.00 -11%
https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=1791%20Ralph%20Street,%20North%20Vancouver&ptype_house=1&max_price=1400000&min_price=800000&filter=1
https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAyOEVDWQ==
Why is it that many Canadians believe that every problem can be solved through taxes?. Especially the Liberals. Many politicians think they are doing a good job if they find a problem and throw tax money at it or as in this case, tax the problem directly. Unfortunately, it’s the Canadian way!!
#103 Stone on 11.08.17 at 9:41 pm
#98 genbizx on 11.08.17 at 9:18 pm
april 9th 1974….ontario speculation tax – 50%
cooled that market almost overnight…
do it and get rid of all the other lame taxes..and raise rates 1 full percent dec.1st and get then on with fixing the real issues in the economy masked by all this real estate fantasy…
——
That’s interesting. How about charging that 50% tax on the purchase price of residential property to anyone not a landed immigrant or citizen. If they still buy, charge them 50% tax on the selling price should they choose to sell later. Anything irregular like purchase or sale price of $1 would be taxed on average purchase or sale price to eliminate any funny business. Next, do the same on everyone else who owns more than 2 properties (purpose built rentals exempt and only landed immigrants or citizens eligible to buy). Make it effective retroactively so no one can sneak out before it goes into effect. That would be drastic and cruel however very effective. Speculation would shrivel up like a prune. Economy probably would too but who thinks beyond their next meal? Imagine the tax dollars. Anyone from CRA reading this blog and looking for a promotion?
——
Forgot one last piece:
No businesses can own residential real estate except purpose built rentals. Property searches to be pulled on all real estate in the country. Any properties owned by any business types (sole prop, partnership, corporation) local or foreign are to be charged a minimum 20% levy annually based on the municipal tax assessment value (purpose built rentals exempt). Every year, the levy increases by 5% (ie: 20% to 25% to 35% and so on).
Have I missed any loopholes? What percentage of the country’s population would vote for that? Are millennials the fastest growing segment of our population? Do they want an affordable house? Citizens, lend me your ears. I offer you affordable and plentiful residential real estate. Anybody up for this? Vote for me in the next election.
Crazy but I think it’s actually doable.
What good is a “right to own property” if it’s purely the domain of an oligarchic 0.1% elite flipping $4 million tract houses and $1 million shoeboxes in the sky between one another?
What good are municipal services in a soon-to-be ghost city that most reasonable people have abandoned because they can’t afford to buy properties that cost 40x their income, or rents for miniscule apartments that exceed 50% of their monthly wages?
You do realize, by the way, that all these municipal services, for which you’re alleging these oligarchic property owners are already overtaxed, serve to DRASTICALLY increase their property values, far beyond the cost of their taxes. For example, adjacent subway lines routinely turn their million dollar condos into $1.5 or $2 million condos. In other words, they’re rewarded with capital gains FAR beyond the amount of their trifling property taxes.
Real estate prices in Vancouver have been fully decoupled from the real economy. All the properties are being bought up by superrich absentee owners as saving vehicles, which they flip between one another. Humans are no longer necessary in that city, save for whatever skeletal workforce needs to be shipped in each day to maintain the sheen on the facades of their empty condo towers.
The criminal oligarchs buying up all the properties in Vancouver, NYC, London, Australia, etc. would love to be granted some type of bizarre constitutional right to own property free of taxation. Then they’d be able to load up on entire nations’ worth of real estate with total impunity to be flipped between one another for huge capital gains that are taxed at half the rate of the earned income taxes that the plebes have to pay. Then we could accelerate our shift towards neofeudalism.
As Adam Smith said, the rate of return on investment is often highest in countries going fastest to ruin, and if Vancouver is any indication, Canada is near the front of the line. Plutocrat real estate investors can churn out millions in unearned capital gains just by letting their properties collect dust, while they contribute ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of value to the real economy.
It’s time for people who work for a living to reassert themselves. The only problem with the empty houses tax is that it’s not high enough. The taxes on occupied properties should also be drastically increased.
An unintended consequence is that this may reconnect disconnected Canuck families, who will now own multiplie properties between them, grandkids, grans, uncles, aunts….kind of a family circle like Indian families of Travelers in the UK
I say here is the simple solution:
Buy a house for x amount of $
Sell a house within 7 years for x amount of $.
Difference to be taxed at 50%.
That will cool housing and leave it for locals.
For #85 John,
Another one from the I’m entitled to crowd.
If the individuals house was for sale, could you afford to buy or rent it? I didn’t think so.
Most work hard and earn what they have, others it seems think they should be given it all.
The problem with this tax is it won’t produce the results that the mayor hopes. It will solely be a money grab.
This is an erosion of individual property rights so should be of a greater concern.
What’s next, small families living in bigger homes will have to make extra rooms available for rent? Just imagine, a city bureaucrat coming by demanding to assess your living space.
Hey Snowflakes
One year a go today. We said screw globalism a movement that is boarderless. Its logic over mental disorders. Truth vs Thieves. Life vs Death.
Crank the ear buds
https://youtu.be/2IzZZjljkWk
Liberalo-taxcists have it coming.
A need for Trump & equivalent has been baaaaaadly created.
Govts have become parasitic entities sucking-up on poor working class.
We need new political parties advocating tax-reform and minimal government
Possible Pink Snow.
Here is a case that someone calling themselves ” For flop” helped me with not that long ago.
They paid 1.94
Were asking 1.78
Sold 13 days ago.
The realtors on here have decided to stay away from The Tasmanian Devil.
I will not receive any help and so I will stick in a folder labelled ” Waiting for clearance” and will present it as CONFIRMED PINK SNOW if that is indeed what happened in a few months.
To the person that helped me ,thanks.
Together ,case by case we can present a clearer picture of what’s going on.
Forget the last 15 years and let’s concentrate on what’s happening right now.
The youngsters seem happy to be getting legalized pot but what they really should be asking is…
Dude,Where’s my real estate board…
M43BC
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
” For flop…pm asking 1.78
this is a new case on Flop’s sheet”
3443 E 51St Ave, Vancouver paid 1.945 June 2016 ass 1.862
https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/3443-e-51st-avenue
https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAwM0Y2Qw==
Garth I think you have this wrong. Affordable housing should be a human right. If its a human right, well then there are market forces that work against this right, including multiple house ownership, ownership for the purpose of speculation, and ownership of property by international pension funds. Why should a pension fund own houses in a foreign city thus restricting supply of affordable housing? It’s not right.
I think if you were just starting your career now in Toronto, you would feel quite differently. Think about it.
Maybe it’s just a trick to get people who rent their RE in Vancouver but do not report it and therefore do not pay taxes?
I think if government wanted to target foreign owners who invest and buy properties outright without mortgage (otherwise it’s absolutely not profitable to pay mortgage, property tax and strata fees and not rent it), they would put that condition in, but they target everyone, including locals, who buy as investment, rent out but do not pay taxes on rental income.
“Why is it that many Canadians believe that every problem can be solved through taxes?. Especially the Liberals.”…well how else does any government anywhere solve problems…they throw services or regulations at it..it’s all they can do when the populace want a problem solved.
Services take money and the money has to come from more taxes. Likewise regulations. Regulations require more infrastructure to administer it so, more salaries paid for by more taxes.
If the people didn’t want more then the government wouldn’t give them more and taxes would only increase by inflation.
Lour last Reform/Conservative government tried this by reducing services and therefor they could reduce taxes. They eventually found out that the majority of the voters still want their governments to provide more all the tme.m
What happens if you transfer your first property entirely in your name and the second entirely in your spouse’s name, then each claim 100% residence?
Of course this would be cheating if you were renting out the second place, but this would address Mr. G’s case of honest commuters who just need a cheaper second place (who I personally feel would be such an infinitesimally insignificant % of the 180K this affects it is absurd to even bring them up).
#110 Adrian on 11.08.17 at 9:56 pm
——————-
yep, Grapes of Wrath
I’m a free-market guy. To me Mayor Robertson’s tax is a dog and pony show. It was going to correct anyways but Robertson needs to look like he’s doing something.
quick notes from before dinner:
Van unaffordable
people leave
business down
rents down
property values down
foreign owners propping up
fewer than locals
still decline
what’s keeping it up?
herd mentality
low interest rates
condo gimme from premier
mayor
means well
show face
Now what are the ramifications of the tax? Is the Van housing bubble going to pop with the tax along with OSFI moves? Who owns the vacant properties? Are spekkers going to get spanked? (Kinky!) Foreigners? Out-of-towners? If owners take losses are they going to sue the city? Can they do so legally? Do municipal governments have the legal right to legislate this kind of tax? What about people’s property rights? They may be non-existent but I think people can sue for damages?
Other news: Ethereum had a mix-up, deleted $300mil and fixed the problem. Catalonians are still demonstrating for independence. Trump went to the DMZ but fog cancelled the landing. Last week Kim’s nuclear mountain test site had a cave-in.
Thanks, Smokey. I didn’t know anything about Forex.
If you allow everything to be a commodity to trade on a futures exchange then eventually they will be trading in your daughters.
First it was companies then ores, then foodstuffs, then animals parts, then dollars. Now it is housing. The only thing left is your self respect.
Someone left the back gate on the blog open again. — Garth
#58 Post on 11.08.17 at 7:39 pm
I live in a condo in downtown Vancouver.
I still don’t know how they can enforce this. For example, in my building (they passed a new condo bylaw this spring) they restrict the amount of rental unts – which is less than are currently rented out which means no more can be rented untl the number of rented units drops bellow the maximum allowed. So what happens to the owners (and there are many) that can’t rent their suite and are very seldom there?
Do they choose between being fined by the condo association or the city?
_ _ _
Gee, here’s a thought: Sell it!
#114 Discarded Canadian Millenial
Typical SCM nonsense.
So if taxes are increased, that would certainly solve the problem of affordability?
Screwed up logic, I must say.
So if a person cannot afford to buy a property, logically this person is for increase of all kind of taxes that has to do with owning RE, so that would suddenly allow that person to be able to afford to buy a property?
So following this logic one would think that this would benefit rich guys too, as, if poor man was able to afford to buy a property after taxes increases, rich guys would be better off as well?
What a screwed up logic.
There is a reasonable increase of rental homes in the GVRD right now.
I have looked over the selection and the odd one is well priced as a deal.
Some overseas owners do not want to pay the tax.
Bravo! Vancouver.
But not enough yet.
See Brian Ripleys charts. We need to bring home prices down to EARTH.
We also need to release the farmlands. No one is farming. We are just pumping real estate with this rule!
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
———————————
It’s not about deserving, its about providing healthy, affordable shelter as a basic human need. Garth I thought you were better than this.
You pulled my statement wholly out of context then made a pejorative, ad hominem comment on it. I thought you were better than this. – Garth
Can you say “Donald Trump”
“We need a tax on empty homes to encourage the best use of all our housing”
^ Gotta love how commies think that everything belongs to the gubmint.
Examples of dudes who own condos so they can stay a few nights here and there for work is very anecdotal and likely applies to a very small portion of the vacant housing. Garth argues rich owning vacant properties to stay in for this purpose reduces traffic etc. as they then don’t need to commute two or three times a week. I would argue more affordable housing supply near employers would decrease pressure on roads, bridges and air quality as less people would be living far from there work places, since most don’t choose to commute.
Regardless, what really needs to happen is:
1. Remove capital gains exemptions for everybody
2. Introduce tax deductible mortgage interest
3. Ban foreign purchases of existing properties, only allow investment in new developments
Great news – housing should be for shelter not speculation. Tax the bejesus out of them I say!!!! If they dont like it – invest elsewhere.
Re: #123 Dmitry on 11.08.17 at 10:52 pm
It’s so they can’t claim the principal residence exemption by reporting they have renters. Or two can only claim part of the principal residence exemption since part of the house is rented if the owner actually lives there.
“The 180,000 owners receiving those letters this week never imagined such a thing might be possible in a democratic, capitalist nation.”
..Gartho baby…you’re cute now. Canada democratic ? …Chaotic, ignorant, selfcentred and myopic more like it.
Canada capitalistic ?… it’s a colony that changed a stylish master (British Empire) for tramp called US.
Methinks it was in Diefenbaker times. Canada was not capitalist even under conservatives.
…more to come
Garth,
Me thinks you doth protest too much. Pray tell, How many properties in Vancouver do you own?
All I can say is it’s about time! Am tired of shuffling the kids from rental to rental with the stress of not knowing how long each one will last and having to pay 70% of my income to the absentee landlords as well as caretaker their properties. I also call on the gvrd cities to cancel Property tax deferrals for all absentee homeowners with Less than 50% occupancy. The whole system is ludicrous! Have written two letters in the last week to the West Vancouver and Vancouver mayors and council (and many more over the last 4 Years). I hope you supportive blogs dogs are doing the same!
Garth, cities need actual people to keep the schools, shops and services going. People need homes. If you go down to the Waterfront in TO at night, much of those big new tower blocks are dark and empty.
My two nieces in their late 20’s have married nice chaps and enjoy middle class incomes but they will never be able to own a place in their own home town. They are priced out by foreigners using TO homes as a bank account for often dirty money.
This is a basic injustice and I have never understood why the various levels of Canadian govt put up with it other than they are all elites governing for their fellow elites and are totally out of touch with ordinary people.
If I, a Tory Chair, feel this way then you can understand why so many fellow Canadians to the centre and left of me are getting very narked by this unjust situation.
Canada need a heavy speculation tax, control over homes being owned by corporations and a temporary ban on foreign ownership as per NZ. Their new ban will only drive more dirty money to Canada anyway. We have to follow their lead.
Homes are for people to build a life, not to act as a bank account.
Locals, not dirty foreigners, priced your nieces out. Such drivel. – Garth
The vacant home tax is somewhat PERVERSE…the cart before the horse…err jackass
What about “vacant” commercial properties?
This becomes more of a feedback loop.
Local Gov’ts continually rezone , via OCP’s, commercial/light industrial properties TO hi- density residential. This either displaces businesses, hence jobs,..or they fold altogether and we see vacant storefronts. Cities, by pursuing this other tax grab of “higher and best use”, simply encourage more “hollowing out”as people either can’t afford to live in the city or the commute to ever decreasing jobs is not worth it.
This point comes full circle to the residential vacancy tax, by design the fingers continually point to Gov’t as the ultimate culprit.
#32 Bobby on 11.08.17 at 7:06 pm
….
One cannot expect an owner to rent a $500k condo for $1000 a month.
———–
Nonsense, that’s par for the course in Calgary.
Bottoms # 132,
“If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth”
———————————
“It’s not about deserving, its about providing healthy, affordable shelter as a basic human need. Garth I thought you were better than this.”
———————————
As a life long resident (54 yrs) of the greater Vancouver area, I have never lived/owned IN Van.
Why some might ask?
Cause even on my decent contractor income 25 years ago, I/we could not afford to live IN Van and support a reasonable lifestyle for my young family.
Please explain to us why I, or anybody should be:
“provided healthy, affordable shelter”
IN Vancouver central?
If one cannot currently afford to live in Van, LA, or New York, you best start making more coin or, move the hell out to a local that you can afford, on what ever income you are capable of generating.
This whining is just getting ridiculous….
A person born on Canadian soil is not allowed to use the land for his/her survival – which means the Crown has absolute rights over our biology.
I have no issue with this tax. I get your point Garth, but former policies and incentives have created a situation where Vancouver is losing its young and its talent. Something has to be done, and sometimes that means doing something that actually impacts the boomers negatively.
PS the two car analogy does not fly. Someone owning multiple cars does not prevent those coming up from buying a car when they do a similar amount of work to own one.
I don’t understand why people feel they have a right to live in Toronto or Vancouver.
There are houses available right now in this country for less than the cost of a new mid-range sedan. Can’t afford to live somewhere expensive? Move somewhere cheap.
The fiction that all jobs pay better in the big city is easily refuted. Perhaps the top 1% have a higher top-end, but many people are taking a pay cut to live in the center of the universe, while paying a greater cost of living.
Oh well. Not everyone can make the same decisions. Otherwise they’d stop being good choices.
Garth, you have a simplistic perspective on what’s happening out here on the ground in Toronto. There are people all around just needing a pied-de-terre for weekend get-aways who will be disadvantaged by this?!! Have you tried to rent in Toronto lately? Have you any sense what it’s like to raise a family in the city, even with 2 well-paying jobs and you can’t find affordable rentals? Garth, go back to the suburbs on your Harley, mow your large lawn, walk you dog(s) and forget about the younger generation with kids down here in the city living in 800 square foot units, because frankly, you sound like those old Muppets sitting in the balcony (Statler & Waldorf) laughing and making jokes, while the rest of us try just try to make ends meet. Your comments are condescending and you need to walk a mile in the shoes of the 99 percenters down here in Toronto; but you won’t because it’s easier just to type away on your blog and comment on the sidelines, up there in the burbs. I am saddened by your comments because you could actually use your blog to affect change and make progress for people… what is your legacy Statler/ Waldorf? Could this platform by a force for positive social change, or continue to just be a source for the griping and complaining of many fuddy-duddies?
I rent in downtown Toronto. – Garth
Garth, you’re just worried that City Hall will do the same to you as you commute from your weekend Gainsborough pastoral ice cream shop environs in rural Ontario, incl. the hunting dogs, to weekday downtown Trauma.
It must be heck being you. ;-)
Todays comments nothing more than a tit for tat of #2 vs. #4 + #5 on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs pyramid.
Maslow was correct about the basics.
#103 Stone
I like your tax plan.
Still, they will find a way to make themselves into “residents” to circumvent foreign buyer taxes – as they do already.
Also, on new developments they just assign/flip before taking possession, tax free as advertised to them by foreign YVR RE pumpers – never register at land titles and thus, difficult to discover their tax cheating ways.
CRA trying with “some” success:
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/cra-recovers-240-million-in-real-estate-tax-fraud-probe-but-lags-in-bc/article32447204/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
However, residency status easy to circumvent:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/information-been-moved/determining-your-residency-status.html
“The more restrictions and prohibitions there are, the poorer the people will be.” – Lao Tzu
#132 Bottoms Up
“It’s not about deserving, its about providing healthy, affordable shelter as a basic human need.”
——————————————————————–
So, do you think that by punishing citizens who legally purchased property (i.e., suddenly changing the law and applying a punitive tax to individuals who legally purchased dwellings to use as they please) is the way to provide affordable shelter to those who did not or could not afford to purchase those dwellings in the first place?
If this Draconian tax actually worked, and all the “underused” dwellings suddenly became available on the market, do you believe that it would solve the affordable housing shortage problem?
Garth is right. Punitive taxes simply increase the government’s revenue, and do NOTHING to address or solve the problems that they were presumably intended to fix.
A logical fallacy is a flaw in reasoning. Logical fallacies are like tricks or illusions of thought, and they’re often very sneakily used by politicians and the media to fool people. Don’t be fooled!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
Somehow it’s “capitalism” when governments increase the number of immigrants allowed per year (many of them wealthy), artificially hold down interest rates, allow amortizations to increase from 25 to 30 to 35 to 40 years, allow “no doc” purchases, cash back schemes as down payments, AND under-report the rate of inflation by not properly accounting for housing costs. I could go on, but I’ll spare you.
But somehow it’s now “communism” when attempts are made to correct the problem?
Had the government kept their grubby little hands off the so-called “free market”, this would never have happened. After the 2008 financial crisis, had the government not bailed out the banks to the tune of $125 billion, the markets would have tanked. Interest rates would have risen.
It was the “commie” government who allowed all of this to happen, if you want to get technical.
#5 CanadianOne on 11.08.17 at 6:16 pm
Let’s never forget the absolute, mind-boggling hypocrisy of chopping the TFSA down to nearly half its size, whilst stuffing foreign accounts to the brim in no, or very low tax havens.
What was a tremendously helpful mechanism for putting together a more reassuring and comfortable retirement has been arrogantly and unceremoniously amputated. All the while, “family fortunes” of the über rich are secreted away and shielded from the very same taxes regular Canadians are forced to pay.
Disgusting and a huge, disrespectful slap in the face to hardworking, taxpaying Canadians.
Vacant house tax? YES
Yes sir, I’ll support that 100%. There should be ZERO reason houses should sit empty as they occupy actual “we are running out of it” space.
Life necessities, (food, water, shelter). Should be regulated.
That space is needed to house families, workers not to sit empty.
Go YVR mayor Gregor Roberston!
Cameco shuts production for 10 months at 2 Saskatchewan sites, 845 jobs affected
http://www.bnn.ca/cameco-shuts-production-for-10-months-at-2-saskatchewan-sites-845-jobs-affected-1.910155
#153 backwardsevolution
Every one hates the free market. People like to talk about a free market but they really hate it. From realtors to mortgage broker to anyone in the FIRE industry.
The City of Toronto, along with many other municipalities in Ontario, actually have a tax REBATE program for vacant commercial and industrial properties. I can understand why that was enacted in the first place, but it creates a perverse incentive for some owners to keep their properties vacant, reducing costs, while speculating on capital appreciation.
In Toronto, we could apparently have the following situation:
Someone buys a commercial property, keeps it vacant, thus reducing the amenities in that neighbourhood, and is given a tax break.
Someone else buys a residential unit around the corner, keeps it vacant, thus reducing demand on municipal services, and is given a tax penalty.
#145 Dolce Vita on 11.09.17 at 5:27 am
#103 Stone
I like your tax plan.
Still, they will find a way to make themselves into “residents” to circumvent foreign buyer taxes – as they do already.
Also, on new developments they just assign/flip before taking possession, tax free as advertised to them by foreign YVR RE pumpers – never register at land titles and thus, difficult to discover their tax cheating ways.
CRA trying with “some” success:
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/cra-recovers-240-million-in-real-estate-tax-fraud-probe-but-lags-in-bc/article32447204/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
However, residency status easy to circumvent:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/information-
——
Thanks for the feedback.
For the flipping/assignment piece, new law that buyers must see their lawyer within 10 days of purchase to register their purchase and register the purchase via property registry. If not done and confirmation to provide proof of this to the builder is not received within 15 days of signing, purchaser forfeits their deposit to the builder as well as right of ownership and builder can resell the property to someone else.
Now the builders have an incentive.
Today’s topic was an eye-opener. In soggy Vancouver, wealthy doll-house collectors have no recourse to the law because the property is still owned by that olde country collector QEll. Not one to name drop, but I know Lizbeth well, and she still chuckles over “Tuktayuktuk? Wear the fox hat.”
Discussions were heated but mostly on topic, with a few interstellar journeys. Perspectives ranged from the Rich are coming so lock up your daughters, to the Commies are coming so move to Belize. Garth started speaking in tongues. When confronted with a dichotomy such as this I usually reach for the Good Book ( Google ).
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. (James 5:1).
I am not sure if James is betting 5:1 for or against the miseries to come. Maybe one of the senior statisticians here could chime in? It was not that long ago that we fought to keep the poor and wretched out of our ‘hood. And somewhere near Vimy Ridge, our great-grandfathers are turning in their unmarked graves, wondering what has become of us. (misappropriated without compensation from F. Jodelka)
Finally, I ask that you send a silent prayer to brother “Re.”, whose squabbles with other members and fornicating, yes I said Fornicating! with the help leaves him little time to exploit his workers. Amen.
How do they determine if a property is under-habitated? Is there a reward for rats?
Of Two kinds:
Have a look at Baltimore …
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-rats-public-housing-20171101-story.html
‘Rat Film’ highlights Baltimore’s rat warfare, urban planning failures
=========
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ifc-forum-richard-hay-canada-paradise-papers-1.4393807
@#99 mark
“10 years on and Robertson comes up with a few horse bolted measures. What a hero.”
+++++
Yep.
Gregor the Dim is usually good for a cringe worthy comment or two at any public gathering.
It’s like watching a particularly thick headed mule attempt calculus….. amusing until you realize the mule really believes its handlers and truly thinks it can actually do calculus.
And when the questions from the press go “off script”? ……….. Yeesh.
The press ( both MSM and internet) has been particularly scathing of late and since he’s facing re-election in 2018…..expect more social justice drivel to spew forth from either him, or the City Clowncil that supports him, in the coming months.
That is, of course, without the few smart ones who are already bailing off the SS Vancouver to ride on the Provincial NDP gravy train or getting ready for retirement to avoid the bloodbath at the polls.
@#151 Dharma Ditto
““The more restrictions and prohibitions there are, the poorer the people will be.” – Lao Tzu
++++++
As yes, page 98 of “Famous Quotations found on Eggrolls”.
What would this blog do without the ceaseless, ancient wisdom of the confucian minds……
But dont be angry with me. Seek out your inner peace. Go forth…just dont multiply.
Here’s one for you Bum.
A little western wisdom
“If you can tune a piano, can you tuna fish?”
#153 backwardsevolution on 11.09.17 at 6:58 am
I agree with you. The government creates the problem in the first place and then tries to fix its own problem by creating more problems.
#96 akashic record
Where were you during history lessons?
Communists did this social engineering before.
Considering that the western part the Soviet Union was destroyed in a little war with Germany, what solution would a libertarian genius have offered?
Pick your historical precedents carefully.
Great. Tax land not labour.
No, tax spending. — Garth
Mild winters and beautiful mountains, but Vancouver is a financial disaster for those who are at the bottom of the real estate pyramid.
Young Vancouverites, facing job opportunities that often pay LESS than other Canadian cities and living costs that will keep them poor for the remainder of their lives, need to leave. There is no shame in quitting a game you have no hope of winning. You will find many other large and small cities in Canada that are welcoming, provide great employment opportunities and are affordable.
People become refugees for many reasons. You are not starving, your family is not threatened with physical harm and you can fly anywhere in Canada for less than a monthly rent payment. Just go.
#85 John on 11.08.17 at 8:43 pm
I agree with this tax. Shelter is a basic human need. Why should some wealthy jerk-off be allowed to own multiple properties solely for his own convenience while others can’t find a place to live?
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
—————————————-
Garth, you’re seriously comparing shelter to car ownership?
Why stop there? Maybe houses should be seen on par with television sets or iPhones.
Maybe compare food to stamp collections?
My comment underscored the illogical nature of the poster’s whine. This is how capitalism works. It’s not that people are not “allowed” to have houses (or cars). They earn and pay for them. Shelter is a right. Affordable housing is not. Real estate is certainly not. — Garth
“I agree with this tax. Shelter is a basic human need. Why should some wealthy jerk-off be allowed to own multiple properties solely for his own convenience while others can’t find a place to live?
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth”
Shelter ranks considerably higher on any list of fundamentals than cars. You might as well ask the same question of people in a bread line. This is a wicked bad strawman.
And one has to think that if someone owns a second property for the sake of convenience, they also have the funds to pay for the taxes on it, whatever those taxes might be.
But THAT SAID, I agree that it’s unlikely a tax on its own will solve anything, since we’re talking about a person that clearly has a lot of extra money to afford an extra place in Vancouver. Any taxes that might be able to change the behaviour would be extreme, and it’s not clear that the city will take those taxes and roll them into programs that will actually help people get housing.
I’m all for taxes that discourage bad behaviour or account for externalities, but there has to be some indication that the money is being used to correct the problem, rather than believing that taxes work in a complete vacuum. Tax tobacco? Absolutely, and roll that money into programs that help people quit smoking. Carbon taxes? Yes! Revenue neutral, market based solution, and use that money to subsidise green alternatives. Empty-house tax? Sure! But that tax money has to directly fund a solution to the problem or it’s all for naught.
How well is that .5% Fentanyl surcharge on the property tax being used? Anyone seen anything come of it like new safe injection sites, better enforcement, more social workers.
The money will flow to general revenues for the mayors pet projects and people will clamour for more punitive taxes against the “wealthy”.
Funny too, with a lot of the truly wealthy people taking their money offshore there is barely a peep on this blog, but a doctor/plumber making $200,000/yr is tarred and feathered for using a legal tax avoidance rule, the same system that the wealthy employ.
I bet a lot of the people complaining about these unaffordable homes will tweet about it on their brand new $1400.00 Iphones, while having a $8.00 Starbucks drink, all wrapped up in a $1200.00 Canada Goose parka.
A lot of these people will also be taking trips to warm locations this winter where according to the locals there, they will be the rich foreigner that is driving up prices and suppressing the local wages, oh the irony
I think some here need a lesson on the difference between needs and wants.
Shelter, basic food, basic clothing = needs, and therefore must be subject to special conditions and regulations if one wants to continue to live in something resembling an egalitarian 21st century society as opposed to a medieval village composed of fabulously land owners and desperately poor serfs.
Everything else one can purchase = wants, let people do whatever the hell they want and let the free market hold ultimate supremacy subject to safety laws etc.
When trust-fund locals or offshore money-launderers treat one of our needs (shelter) as a casino, it’s time for government to take action.
DELETED
The good Lord is testing me today. For those of you who wrote asking whether to pray for “Re.” or “re.” , they are indeed one and the same. He is also known as “Irie” aka the Boinker of Bedlam.
A gentle reminder that tithes are due on Saturday NOT Sunday due to the time change.
I am one realtor who supports the Government interventions. A stable housing market creates stable neighbourhoods.
This is in response to Garth’s last post but maybe you blog dogs can help me out. He recommends opening an online portfolio and stuffing that TFSA with $100/week. Okay… where do I go to “open an online portfolio”?
And I guess before answering that, I also have to ask, “do I need to?” My wife and I both have excellent DB pension plans through our employers (I’m staff at an Ontario college, she is an RN at Ontario hospital..) We pay a lot of our own money into those plans so an extra $100 a week would actually be a challenge.
Jeez, Garth, you should be Yahooing: another measure to encourage the moister-class to diversify. Your mantra, no? As for the tax, of course, bad. Better our cities resemble the ghost enclaves of London’s Mayfair and the island of Malta, overun by Russian oligarchs and Chinese kleptocrats. Stalinesque, indeed.
Somehow it’s “capitalism” when governments increase the number of immigrants allowed per year (many of them wealthy), artificially hold down interest rates, allow amortizations to increase from 25 to 30 to 35 to 40 years, allow “no doc” purchases, cash back schemes as down payments, AND under-report the rate of inflation by not properly accounting for housing costs. I could go on, but I’ll spare you.
But somehow it’s now “communism” when attempts are made to correct the problem?
Had the government kept their grubby little hands off the so-called “free market”, this would never have happened. After the 2008 financial crisis, had the government not bailed out the banks to the tune of $125 billion, the markets would have tanked. Interest rates would have risen.
It was the “commie” government who allowed all of this to happen, if you want to get technical.
————–
To add, Central banks are still pumping 300 billion per month into this ponzi scheme
Band-aid solutions can only work for so long..
As Grumpy Cat would say…”GOOD”.
And furthermore, I’m seeing house prices of detached units (older, crappier ones in Mimico/Longbranch area) get slashed by $50K and relisted! Oh la la. I also saw a semi-detached 3 bedroom crack below $600K in the high $500s. It is happening. Even before B20 and successive rate hikes. Buyers are not dumb. They know a house built in 1950 is not equivalent to a townhome built in 2010. Entropy is already taking hold. They are refusing to buy garbage at still too-high prices.
#175 Centre Wing on 11.09.17 at 10:11 am
This is in response to Garth’s last post but maybe you blog dogs can help me out. He recommends opening an online portfolio and stuffing that TFSA with $100/week. Okay… where do I go to “open an online portfolio”?
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
*Blinks* Well, I’m suddenly feeling so financially smart… You go to eTrade or your bank’s online stock brokerage, i.e. BMO has “Investorline”, TD has its own thing. Visit your bank, see what they have to offer. Then they’ll throw your TFSA and RSP accounts in that online account, and you can use the money in that profile to do online trades with. So, if you have your chequing and saving accounts with BMO, just ask them to open an online investing account for you (one that houses your TFSA, RSP and a cash account) and then voila, you’re ready to gamble, I mean, trade stocks.
Rejoice says the GenX and Mill’s
They will soon be the majority voting class and they need leaders to stand up, just like trump, to get their votes they will have to make dump rules to please their voters.
Next up, they should pay people to hunt down unused houses with a percentage of the fines
#175 Centre Wing on 11.09.17 at 10:11 am
Also, you might want to snag a copy of this little gem – its a very comprehensive, easy to read handbook on how to understand the stock market and the lingo.
The Neatest Little Guide to Stock Market Investing by Jason Kelly
https://www.amazon.ca/Neatest-Little-Guide-Market-Investing/dp/0452298628
And there’s always investopedia.com if you need to look up the definition of any investing lingo and jargon, as its a very jargon-heavy thing.
And you know, the obvious things, like Google Finance or Yahoo Finance, where you can replicate your actual portfolio and then watch the stocks move in real time. Charts charts and more charts!
#27 Someone’s story on 11.08.17 at 6:56 pm
I Left Vancouver Because Vancouver Left Me
A personal essay on loving, and leaving, a city after being defeated by its affordability crisis.
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/10/30/I-Left-Vancouver/
____________________________________
Thanks for that link. The most interesting thing about that story is that she had to hear her boyfriend say he was outta there with or without her, and then nearly lose her marbles before she understood that it was time to leave.
Think about how much further ahead she would be right now if she had her ear to the ground, and anticipated the trouble – instead of having trouble slap her around for a few more years before bailing out.
I’m reading and can’t believe my eyes, why is everyone so bent on fixing every problem in this country by taxing someone else?? I’m a first generation immigrant and can not understand that logic, reminds me of the communist times ” hey look someone is trying to swim to the top, quick everyone pull him down” or the lobster saying here in Canada.
Manulife’s new CEO Roy Gori isn’t banking on interest rate hikes any time soon
http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/manulifes-new-ceo-roy-gori-isnt-banking-on-interest-rate-hikes-any-time-soon
Recent interest rate hikes in North America are perceived as positive for the life insurance sector, but they aren’t prompting a change in strategy at Manulife Financial Inc., according to Roy Gori, the new chief executive at Canada’s largest insurer.
“We obviously benefit from a more positive outlook as it relates to interest rates, but we’re not banking on that,” Gori, who took over as CEO from Don Guloien in October, told the Financial Post in an interview Thursday.
“There’s still a lot of uncertainty in terms of global growth and inflation and, as a result, interest rates are still significantly low, certainly lower than they have been historically. And we’re working on the assumption that that will continue.”
Tax, tax, tax – I believe in the end this costs everyone more and sends more money to the government to do with..what they will. People are buying in multiples because of AirBNB. What used to be rented monthly is now rented weekly – if the government really wants that back, they need to regulate that new asset sharing model. If they want less foreigners buying property, limit how much they can buy ~ don’t just tax to “try” to achieve the desired result. Try the other thing ~ regulate.
#153 backwardsevolution on 11.09.17 at 6:58 am
Somehow it’s “capitalism” when governments increase the number of immigrants allowed per year (many of them wealthy), artificially hold down interest rates, allow amortizations to increase from 25 to 30 to 35 to 40 years, allow “no doc” purchases, cash back schemes as down payments, AND under-report the rate of inflation by not properly accounting for housing costs. I could go on, but I’ll spare you.
But somehow it’s now “communism” when attempts are made to correct the problem?
Had the government kept their grubby little hands off the so-called “free market”, this would never have happened. After the 2008 financial crisis, had the government not bailed out the banks to the tune of $125 billion, the markets would have tanked. Interest rates would have risen.
It was the “commie” government who allowed all of this to happen, if you want to get technical.
——————————————
*applause….APPLAUSE*
Well said.
You see many existing homeowners in GTA/GVR in forums on Facebook and elsewhere whining about “government intervention” when BC enacted its foreign buyer tax or Toronto ended the 1991 rent-control loophole.
Funny how none of them complain about the government intervention that benefits their side :
– tax-free capital gains on RE sales, a disgusting inequity perpetuated against renters who have no such tax-free investment available to them
– BC’s helicopter money program to first-time home buyers
– Ontario’s new(ish) $4K tax credit to new home buyers
– Toronto’s artificially low property taxes
– the very existence of CMHC
Is it due to capitalism that offshore money launderers disproportionately choose Canada as their victim due to its lax regulations, corrupt politicians, and downright abusive and oppressive political correctness?
Today marks the 100-year anniversary of the Bolshevik revolution.
150 million people, innocent men, women, and children were killed in the name of building the collectivist utopia. Back then they called it Communism.
Today especially in Canada the same mindset is back but has been rebranded as Progressive, or postmodernist society.
Same shit all over again, get them young in school, brainwash them to get Power.
Privilege comes next (The paradise papers) then when the minions catch on, Antifa at some point in time will realize they have been duped, by then Power won’t give a shit, it will round them up and do what’s necessary to keep power.
If history shows us anything. Collectivism utopia always ends with a huge collection of tortured and mangled corpses
Happy Communism.
Howard, “Everything else one can purchase = wants, let people do whatever the hell they want and let the free market hold ultimate supremacy subject to safety laws etc.” a wonderfully optimistic outlook but unfortunately hampered by human nature. “Free Markets” are an illusion. Without varying degrees of governmental oversight and control, free markets always fall prey to elitist greed i.e. Those with the most have the most to lose and therefor exert the most influence. That’s nt free markets, that’s oligopoly.
Now as for shelter being a right and afforable housing not, excellent hair splitting if you buy into the “you can always move to a cheaper location” myth. No, you can’t always do that in realistic terms. Yes, it isn’t the direct duty of any government to intervene in the affordable housing issue at any time they wish to but it is their elected mandate to. That is the hallmark of democracy.
Read the preamble to the US Declaration of Independance. I’m not advocating the US form of Republic but the preamble does enumerate a natural “right” to overthrow and replace any governmental form with another should the natural rights of the citizens be irrevocably compromised. This “natural right” has been accepted and embraced by all subsequent free enterprise systems.
So, there actually is a direct relationship between a natural right to shelter and an obligation on all governments to act when that natural right is being limited by an unchecked free market. That obligation is enforced by the right to overthrow any government found to be abrogating their duty to protect their citizens natural rights.
Millennials overthrowing the government to get better condo rental rates. Love it. The burning cause of our times. — Garth
#168 Howard on 11.09.17 at 9:25 am
#85 John on 11.08.17 at 8:43 pm
I agree with this tax. Shelter is a basic human need. Why should some wealthy jerk-off be allowed to own multiple properties solely for his own convenience while others can’t find a place to live?
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
—————————————-
Garth, you’re seriously comparing shelter to car ownership?
Why stop there? Maybe houses should be seen on par with television sets or iPhones.
Maybe compare food to stamp collections?
My comment underscored the illogical nature of the poster’s whine. This is how capitalism works. It’s not that people are not “allowed” to have houses (or cars). They earn and pay for them. Shelter is a right. Affordable housing is not. Real estate is certainly not. — Garth
__________________________________________
I think the kids are just confused about housing these days. They feel that housing in the largest, most populous, most affluent metropolis’s in the world should be in their price range, and that there must be a rift in the space-time continuum if this is not the case.
Even though there are LOADS of houses, apartments, townhouses, and condos that are totally affordable to just about any budget – they’ll scoff at there mere suggestion that they go live where their financial means can support them.
Some kids are going to take a long, looong time to figure out why a Rookie Gretsky and downtown GTA SFD cost so much.
Garth, if a person truly doesn’t own his/her home and property (which I believe you are correct), why bother owning at all? Won’t this trigger a sell off? I think it will cause a new affect; more rental units at much higher rental fees. Zero affect; low income peeps who can’t afford to buy will soon not be able to rent. Result more empty units.
#52 looniedoctor on 11.08.17 at 7:30 pm
….You could become a professional occupier and charge a few hundred bucks a month to spend a few hours each day in several “under-utilized” properities. …
————
That would not work. It’s not an “only if they catch you thing.” Everyone must make a declaration or be charged the tax by default. Acceptable proof consists of the address on your driver’s license or tax return, or bank statements showing the rent coming in every month.
So there have been a few mentions about not “owning” property. I have a vague idea of what this means and have done some quick internet searches, but can someone spell it out directly?
From what I can tell our property rights are not protected in the constitution and therefore laws can be enacted that restrict our property rights. Also property rights are a provincial jurisdiction and therefore will differ from province to province.
So there’s nothing guaranteeing our property rights, but a government would have to tread carefully when infringing upon them. People would get very upset but could not challenge them directly using the constitution.
carter page met with a russian intelligence operative named victor podobnyy, who was later charged by the us gov. along side two other (was he wearing a wire?)
Jared Kushner ‘tried and failed to get a $500m loan from Qatar before pushing Trump to take hard line against country’
The failed business deal has reignited concerns about Trump family conflicts of interest
=======
… don’t just tax to “try” to achieve the desired result. Try the other thing ~ regulate.
============
indeed so much for the “spirit” of the law ?
see why OECD profit shifting base etc
Main findings
Three main findings stand out.
First, BEPS is a problem of first-order importance in terms of the world economy.
An estimated $660bn of corporate profits were shifted in 2012 — or more than a quarter of US multinationals’ gross profits . That sum is equivalent to 0.9% of world GDP.
Second, countries at all incomes levels are losing out to profit-shifting – while most of this ‘missing’ profit ends up in just a few jurisdictions with near-zero effective tax rates – notably Netherlands, Ireland, Bermuda, Luxembourg (the most important by far) as well as Singapore and Switzerland.
Third, profit-shifting by US multinationals has grown sharply over the last two decades. Figure 3 shows, for various measures of economic activity, profit-shifting as a share of total gross profits.
https://www.taxjustice.net/scalebeps/
===============
CBC Investigates
Tax-haven lobbyist held private meetings and got advice from top federal officials, Paradise Papers reveal
Senior Canadian bureaucrats held private meetings with a lobbyist for the interests of the world’s tax havens, even providing talking points that went against Canada’s official stance on corporate transparency, according to records in the Paradise Papers.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ifc-forum-richard-hay-canada-paradise-papers-1.4393807
How Congress Helps Tax Cheaters Get Away With It
It Keeps Cutting IRS Law Enforcement and Ends Up With the ‘Paradise Papers’ Scandals
By David Cay Johnston, DCReport Editor-in-Chief
https://www.dcreport.org/2017/11/06/how-congress-helps-tax-cheaters-get-away-with-it/
#185 MediOgre on 11.09.17 at 11:21 am
Tax, tax, tax – I believe in the end this costs everyone more and sends more money to the government to do with..what they will….
…If they want less foreigners buying property, limit how much they can buy ~ don’t just tax to “try” to achieve the desired result.
____________________________________________
Yep – once again, it’s a cash grab. That’s what happens when voters get stupid and governments are broke.
Make a pile of revenue and gain voter support all at the same time.
I think I’ve mentioned it before regarding Canadian Politics: it’s the Voter , not the Politician. We get what we deserve.
132 Bottoms_Up on 11.08.17 at 11:14 pm
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
———————————
It’s not about deserving, its about providing healthy, affordable shelter as a basic human need. Garth I thought you were better than this.
You pulled my statement wholly out of context then made a pejorative, ad hominem comment on it. I thought you were better than this. – Garth
At first read I thought their original post was done sarcastically. Apparently not.
I guess they are also hoping for a tax on stamps that people collect, as they should be in circulation.
Maybe a tax on childrens sports cards and collectibles for those who collect them and don’t let the kids play with the cards.
A jewelry tax maybe too, some people have bracelets and such and don’t wear them even twice a week.
That was sarcasm.
I think there’s a work around for the empty house tax. You ‘rent’ your place to someone, family members, for below market rent, maybe a $1, and they don’t occupy it. You’ve got a lease agreement and there’s no onus on the renter to actually live there. Stupid tax law bypassed.
“Millennials overthrowing the government to get better condo rental rates. Love it. The burning cause of our times. — Garth” ohhhh, you mock me Fearless Leader. I am destroyed. Didn’t the M’s strategic voting give the Lib’s their unexpected majority government two years ago? Oh, and didn’t the 1957 equivalent of M’s take the mandate away from St Laurent and give it to Dief on the basis of promises of far greater spendng promises nt the least of which was “affordable housing” for the generation returning from the war??
Did you just compare the moisters to the young men who fought WW2? — Garth
I Left Vancouver Because Vancouver Left Me
A personal essay on loving, and leaving, a city after being defeated by its affordability crisis.
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/10/30/I-Left-Vancouver/
Interesting read and perspective. Very relatable. Thanks for the link.
#188 LivinLarge on 11.09.17 at 11:39 am
….
Millennials overthrowing the government to get better condo rental rates. Love it. The burning cause of our times. — Garth
————————————-
How dare they.
Boomers, as we all know, never voted based on their own financial self-interest.
Capitalism is great but like everything in this world it is not perfect. Therefore, a country, or jurisdiction, has to revise the parameters once in a while to protect it’s citizens. In the case of home ownership, the ability able to attain it, if they so desire.
In the case of real estate in Canada (and Australia, New Zealand, etc), we owe it to our own countrymen to curtail foreign (and some local) scavenging, solely for quick profits.
Those who think this is not our responsibility, can sit down with our children and explain why they may likely never own own a house.
Geez Garth, I almost got as dramatic as you.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-07/vacant-homes-are-global-epidemic-and-paris-fighting-it-60-tax
Homes are for living in. If wealthy homeowners don’t want to rent out their empty spaces they will have to accept what comes further down the road if we continue in this manner. I’m not saying it’s going to be a guillotine, but cities will be dealing with one hell of a squatting problem.
This is beyond socialism, this is forced communism. Why do we elect these type of politicians again?
city: (noun) a place where likeminded people choose to live in accordance with numerous regulations, such as land use restrictions including the number of people who may reside at an address
Country folks need not trouble their heads over what we in the cities choose to do, you probably wouldn’t get it.
Basically there is screaming sell signals. Imagine the sell monster an inch in front of peoples faces yelling convincing arguments to sell.
And yet they choose to ignore the sell monster.
Although for most it is now too late anyway, as the market falls away. However, for us sell monsters even though it is not going to help any, we still have to keep shouting in their faces.
Is there any other city in North America where it is almost standard to have an independent suite built in and you are only able to enjoy half your home in the name of “mortgage affordability”?
And a majority of these units aren’t legal or registered or taxes being paid on the income so it’s just an educated guess how many people actually live in Vancouver or are using the services?
Sure the invisible hand of the market has a way of evening things out but why isn’t there another Vancouver somewhere else?
My hubby doesn’t use his lawnmower enough. We need a tax on that too.
@Tony great call on Uranium the other day.
I come here seeking alpha with zero hedge.
Today’s blog is deplorable.
“Did you just compare the moisters to the young men who fought WW2? — Garth”
Good work, LivinLarge. Garth’s biases are plainly unmasked here. Like most boomers, his steadfast advocacy of laissez-faire economics is simply an ideological artifice for pulling up the ladder behind him and shafting a younger generation that he regards as less than.
“Someone with a condo in downtown Vancouver because staying there for business three nights a week is cheaper than a hotel, will be whacked.”
Garth – absolutely NOBODY actually does this. I work for a Vancouver employer that also employs several hundred consultants who commute here from all over North America, some who have been working here for over a decade.
ZERO of them own a local property to stay in for the week. They ALL stay in hotels, or rent a condo/apartment. Their hourly wage rates include money to cover such expenses. You yourself have already described in great detail why renting in a delusional real estate market like Vancouver is a better value than owning…
I would wager that the population of folks you describe above who own a local property “to use for business a few nights per week” is absolutely miniscule compared to those who own property solely as an investment and choose to just let it sit empty.
i see nurse Marge made rounds early……bright and early. EXCELLENT
Premier Brad Wall criticizes Governor General’s ‘divine intervention’ speech
Saskatchewan premier takes aim at Julie Payette’s views on religion and creationism
CBC
so which side is mr. wall on? reason or ?
bill nye vs ken ham (ark park dino park)and then read the financials regarding this “museum”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI
On April 3, 2008, the provincial NDP released a video tape that was found at a former Conservative MP office. The tape was filmed during the 1991 Saskatchewan general election on the day of the leaders debate.[14] The video showed Conservative MP and former Saskatchewan Party staffer Tom Lukiwski making homophobic remarks.[15] Wall was also on the video using an exaggerated Ukrainian accent, making derogatory statements about former NDP Premier Roy Romanow.[15][16][17]
In 2015, Brad Wall was named in a lawsuit against himself, Rob Norris, the former Minister of Advanced Education, and the University of Saskatchewan and its Board of Governors for the controversial firing of the President, Ilene Busch-Vishniac, after the Provost, Brett Fairbairn, fired an executive director at the university and ended his tenure for openly criticizing the university’s leadership. Wall and Norris are accused of unlawfully inserting themselves into the Board’s decision of firing Busch-Vishniac.[18] The lawsuit is ongoing
=============
Global Transportation Hub mega mall
Developer Brightenview’s partner was suspended from immigration program for submitting fake job offers/ residency
By Geoff Leo, CBC News Posted: Sep 13, 2017 3:03 PM CT Last Updated: Sep 13, 2017 3:03 PM
#63 Vancouver Brit on 11.08.17 at 7:51 pm
You need to read your link a little closer. The conclusion in the final paragraph directly disputes your premise. It kinda undermines your argument when the author of the article you are using as “proof” takes the opposite conclusion from the same data you’re quoting. Here it is in case you didn’t read down that far ;-)
>Sure, you might get 10% or 12% with a very >aggressive portfolio. The question is, why take the >unnecessary risk? As Warren MacKenzie writes in New >Rules of Retirement, “Investing is not about trying to >shoot the lights out. It is not about trying to make as >much money as you can without any regard for risk. >Smart investing is about trying to reach your financial >goals. If you can reach your financial goals with little >risk, all the better.”
The same article states that the worst 12 month performance of a 90/10 portfolio is -51.1%. If something like this happened early in your investment career, you would have to have serious intestinal fortitude to watch your $1M drop to less than $500k and not doubt the wisdom of your investment strategy. (Not to mention the rock-solid relationship you’d have to have to explain your judgement to your better half…)
I think Stone is right that the risk of bailing on your strategy due to high volatility (or having to liquidate half the portfolio due to divorce proceedings) probably outweighs the potential of higher returns…
To each their own though. Good luck with whatever strategy you decide to employ.
——————————————————————-
Anybody can select a 10 year range that suits their argument. Over a long-term period (30 years) a 90/10 will outperform by around 1.5-2% annualized (http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/03/09/how-much-risk-do-you-need-to-take/). Over 30 years that’s $550k to $820k, assuming your $1,000,000 start point.
132 Bottoms_Up on 11.08.17 at 11:14 pm
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
———————————
It’s not about deserving, its about providing healthy, affordable shelter as a basic human need. Garth I thought you were better than this.
You pulled my statement wholly out of context then made a pejorative, ad hominem comment on it. I thought you were better than this. – Garth
At first read I thought their original post was done sarcastically. Apparently not.
I guess they are also hoping for a tax on stamps that people collect, as they should be in circulation.
Maybe a tax on childrens sports cards and collectibles for those who collect them and don’t let the kids play with the cards.
A jewelry tax maybe too, some people have bracelets and such and don’t wear them even twice a week.
That was sarcasm.
………….
stamps? they don’t provide a roof over a person’s head. Apparently there are 25,000 houses empty. Supply /demand. Don’t be like gun nuts. They are wondering why cars arent banned, as cars take more lives than guns
#202 Dups on 11.09.17 at 1:21 pm
This is beyond socialism, this is forced communism. Why do we elect these type of politicians again?
________________
Because we have an Autocratic system (dictator light). You elect the next Autocrat with what you think is “democracy” when the MPs and MLAs have ZERO power.
CHANGE IT…….or keep electing dictators.
“Did you just compare the moisters to the young men who fought WW2? — Garth” …nope and me thinks thou doth be a tad disengenuous. If I wanted to compare any age group to another in any perjorative sense then you wouldn’t have to ask if I did, I would have come right out and said it but that would be agism and we don’t want to go there now do we?
What I said, was M’s as a previously ignored voting block exerted their power to topple a government in favour of their choice of government precisely theway the new voters in 57/58 did so in part based on promises of affordable housing and other social spending programs. Whether the affordable housing was delivered by government spending or government regulation s immaterial, it achieved the same purpose, to deliver a change to the status quo that limited access to affordable housing.
Just like the Republicans in the US who equate universal healthcare with universal opportunity to buy health insurance while ignoring affordability are incorrect, claiming that a right to shelter exists without there being a concurrent right for that shelter to be afforable is simply incorrect.
#209 Discarded Canadian Millenial on 11.09.17 at 2:14 pm
“Did you just compare the moisters to the young men who fought WW2? — Garth”
Good work, LivinLarge. Garth’s biases are plainly unmasked here. Like most boomers, his steadfast advocacy of laissez-faire economics is simply an ideological artifice for pulling up the ladder behind him and shafting a younger generation that he regards as less than.
————————
Translation of the above:
Wah, wah, wah, wah….
ha ha, canadians spend all this time and trouble and crazy expense buying a house, and they dont even have property rights in the constitution. sure everyone rolls their eyes when Americans start talking about the founding fathers, like there a family friend or something. but in the end, those crazy dudes knew what they were thinking.
taxed on a asset that you own and dont use, only in Canada.
Fortune 500
The only problem with your argument is that everybody wants to own a Porsche on Kia wages, taxing all those Porsche owners into selling you their Porsche is frigging hilarious.
If someone has two cars, and you have none, do you deserve one? — Garth
A few people have taken issue with the statement above. It’s really the main difference between Capitalism and Communism.
In Capitalism you’re allowed to do what you want with your money. Government’s role is to make sure society functions in an orderly manner and infrastructure for the common good is in place.
In Communism it’s the government’s job to provide for many basic needs including housing. Some people view this as preferable because they think the government will fairly ration out properties. Everyone will get one, they’ll all be the same, etc. In reality it becomes the political elite who end up living in the mansions with several vacation properties to boot as opposed to the economic elite. Neither class is more virtuous than the other. But at least the economic elite don’t have control over the police and the army.
It’s interesting how often basic conversations about the economy always revert back to Capitalism vs. Communism.
problem is houses are too expensive
working people in need of shelter cannot find it
compounding the problem, governments are looking to provide shelter without making houses cheaper
answer is cheaper housing
#193 jess
Re: offshore tax havens
History has shown that with few, if any , exceptions, the Canadian elites never seem to suffer any consequences for their tax dodges.
These elites clearly have an integrated and somewhat incestuous olde boys club , and have a combination of access to immunity on demand combined with an apparently innate detest for the rest of us suckers who do pay taxes.
There is a CBC documentary called “The Untouchables “circa 1999 which lays out how KPMG staff marketed a tax haven based in Isle of Mann to wealthy Canadians and Americans. They charged $100,000 as start up fee and clients had to invest $5 Million minimum.
This tax dodge was investigated…result were:
(i) USA convicted top KPMG officials
(ii) Canada ?
KPMG and clients negotiated secret amnesty deal with CRA.
Nothing new here Canadians…move along….
Loonie looks set to rise on prospects of more rate hikes, higher oil: Poll
http://www.bnn.ca/loonie-looks-set-to-rise-on-prospects-of-more-rate-hikes-higher-oil-poll-1.910524
Scotiabank strategist Eric Theoret said the Bank of Canada’s apparent reticence about delivering another rate hike was the biggest near-term risk to the currency.
“They are definitely a lot more tentative on their willingness or their ability to complete more tightening from here, and it’s much more of a muted path,” Theoret said.
Markets are pricing in a less than 10-per-cent chance of a rate hike in December, while the odds of a March increase stand at about 70 per cent.
Speculators cut bullish bets on the loonie from a five-year high struck in October, according to the latest data from the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission and Reuters calculations.
But not everyone is negative about the loonie’s prospects.
“You could expect the Canadian dollar to make a comeback early next year,” said National Bank senior economist Krishen Rangasamy. “We think the Bank of Canada is going to be a bit more aggressive than markets are currently expecting in 2018.”
#220 Josh in Calgary on 11.09.17 at 3:09 pm
“In Communism … the political elite who end up living in the mansions with several vacation properties to boot as opposed to the economic elite. Neither class is more virtuous than the other.”
You… just described capitalism.
DELETED
#42 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.08.17 at 7:18 pm
@#206 Overheardyou
“Thank you to all the commentators as well, your knowledge and experience is very helpful to a new investor. Hope to be able to buy you lunch one day!”
+++++
No Worries.
We can all meet in Belfountain and you can pay Garth can bbq hotdogs for the blogdogs…..
I take mine with mustard
—–
Sounds like a plan
A Young Millennial goes shopping for a new car. He walks right on past the used econo-boxes at Bill’s fine used cars, and heads right for the biggest Ford Dealership in town. He starts looking at a brand new 2018 F350 4X4 Crew Cab Dually with a Twin Turbo Intercooled Diesel under hood. He likes what he sees and starts grinning and nodding his head. Then he notices it costs $95,000.00 and gets 5 mpg.
The naïve young Millennial is completely blown away at the initial and operating costs – so much so that he starts to blog that Ford Motors hates youth, he decries the social injustices of how inaccessible F350 DRW’s are to the younger generation, that basic transportation is a right for everyone – not just rich folks, that trucks are for driving not just sitting on the lot looking pretty, that boomers didn’t have to pay nearly as much when they bought their brand spanking new F350’s at age 25.
Starts Hashtag #Don’thave1diesel
Wow Garth. You seem to have a Communist Club hanging out in your blog section. Which is absolutely hilarious, because this is a blog about personal finances. Communism being the antithesis of personal finances and freedoms.
crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.09.17 at 8:22 am
……
Here’s one for you Bum.
A little western wisdom
“If you can tune a piano, can you tuna fish?”
=================
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
There is a modern fable about a young adult talking to their parent about the blessings of socialism concurrently about the evils of capitalism.
The parent then discussed the recent school grades of their child. The child proclaimed with pride they had mostly “A”‘s and some “B”s
The parent then stated that, based on the conversation, they should share some if not all of their grades with others, as it wasn’t fair that they should keep them..it was somewhat hypocritical and selfish.
Their child stated that was outrageous, they had EARNED their grades, so what right did other have to them?
Point made…case closed.
Wow, Garth, a lot of push back on your post. While I hear your concerns about the government regulating how citizens can use their own private property (they really are not insignificant concerns!), how do you respond to all those that have posted their own concerns about runaway real estate speculation pushing families out of the GVA? If not this, then what? When governments fail in rolling out policy (and that may well happen here), then its time for citizens to make some noise with alternative solutions. Would love to hear your perspective on what that might look like.
Hi Garth,
If the 2nd house is registered under the other spouse’s name, are they still taxed under “Empty house tax”
#224 SunShowers on 11.09.17 at 3:26 pm
#220 Josh in Calgary on 11.09.17 at 3:09 pm
“In Communism … the political elite who end up living in the mansions with several vacation properties to boot as opposed to the economic elite. Neither class is more virtuous than the other.”
You… just described capitalism.
———————-
Difference is anyone pointing out such fact in a communism environment is never heard of again. In capitalism, the same person is simply ignored.
@Eyestrain
Might you be the long lost Nosty?
#227 IHCTD9 on 11.09.17 at 3:46 pm
“A young millennial goes shopping for a new car. He walks up to where ‘Bill’s Fine Used Cars’ used to be, but finds that it has been demolished and replaced with ‘William’s Luxury Vehicles’. It seems Bill (and nearly all other used car salesmen) have recently made quite a profit buying old econo-boxes, souping them up, and reselling them at prices roughly the same as brand new vehicles at the biggest Ford dealership in town. This has escalated to the point where there are no cars left in town for this millennial to buy.”
Fixed your little scenario for you. Try being less out of touch next time.
US tax expert Reuven Avi-Yonah, from the University of Michigan law school, said the documents gave a “rare” insight into company structures that even tax authorities did not often see.
“If HMRC becomes aware of the fact that this is a common type of structuring then they are more likely to challenge it because they will be aware they are losing a lot of revenue,” he said.
or other countries?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-41899034
======================
The papers show how accountancy firms mapped out strategies to minimise or avoid every significant tax.
Blackstone said its investments were “wholly compliant with UK tax laws”.
The recommended structure, which was adopted by Blackstone, was complex and ingenious. It involved the creation of seven companies in Luxembourg through which money for the purchase of the estate was passed in the form of loans.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/08/paradise-papers-schemes-avoid-tax-uk-property-deals-chiswick-park-blackstone
As I read about the people getting a letter soon regarding their vacant property I wondered who they might be? Money laundering through real estate has always been a concern of mine and though as a real estate agent I do my best following the guidelines regarding FINTRAC that are subject to the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act (PCMLTFA) and associated Regulations it is certainly not fail safe regarding criminal activity. It is hard to spot if there is a corporation or a trust company involved. The reason I bring this up is that I think the government is doing what it can fighting this criminal element by using a very broad and undiscriminating action to all vacant property owners; hoping to resolve the high number of vacant homes. Something has to be done and this to me is a good start; it may even flush out some of the criminals involved in money laundering.
As I expected, the opponents of the empty homes tax, fueled by Garth’s Stalinesque comment have, reverted to the tiresome irrational debate of communism versus capitalism. Perhaps I am a dumb-ass, but I completely fail to see how with the imposition of this tax, needed to do at least something about the dire housing situation, that within a short time period we will all be standing in long lines to buy our turnips and beets. The problem as I see it, is that the “boomer” generation who had an easier road (and I am one of them) has the “pull-up-the ladder; me first” mentality with regards to their views on the problems faced by the younger generation.
regarding empty properties;
Revealed: Britain’s own Applebys and Mossack Fonsecas at the heart of 52 global corruption scandals
Revealed: Britain’s own Applebys and Mossack Fonsecas at the heart of 52 global corruption scandals
UK defences too weak to prevent creation of companies to facilitate corruption
9th November 2017, London – Transparency International UK has analysed 52 cases of global corruption – amounting to £80 billion – and found hundreds of UK registered shell companies at the heart of these scandals. At the same time the UK’s system to prevent this abuse is failing.
This new research, Hiding in Plain Sight, has found 766 companies registered in the UK that have been directly involved in laundering stolen money out of at least 13 countries. These companies are used as layers to hide money that would otherwise appear suspicious, and have the added advantage of providing a respectability uniquely associated with being registered in the UK.
Our evidence has shown this is no accident. The UK is home to a network of Trust and Companies Service Providers (TCSP’s) that operate much like Appleby and Mossack Fonseca – companies at the heart of the Paradise and Panama Papers – who create these companies on behalf of their clients.
TCSPs will register these companies to UK addresses, often nothing more than mailboxes. This has created ‘company factories’, where thousands of companies can be registered to unoccupied buildings with little to suggest any meaningful business occurs. We found half of the 766 questionable companies we identified were registered to only 8 separate addresses – in one instance a run-down building, next to a bank on Potters Bar High Street.
The recent Manafort indictment in the US also revealed that one of the companies alleged by the FBI to have been used to launder money was registered to a house in North London
http://www.transparency.org.uk/press-releases/revealed-britains-own-applebys/
Respectfully GT, you’re on the wrong side of history here, Metro Van is in a critical housing crisis. Shelter absolutely *is* a basic human right. Which means shelter *one can reasonably afford* based on local incomes, whether choosing to rent or own. These same incomes provide the tax revenue to build the very communities that are now experiencing record low occupancy as shelter is being hoarded (land banking) at an historically unprecedented rate. Local incomes *can not compete* with massive inflows of unregulated foreign capital.
Every data tranche released in the past year pegs foreign ownership at far higher levels than previously parroted by both FIRE industry and prev. govn’t. and this is based only on “self-declaration” of individuals. It doesn’t capture trusts, corporate ownership, paper”relatives”, etc.
I’d love to take you on the tour of the empty neighbourhoods of Westside, White Rock, Richmond, Coal Harbour, Metrotown, Coal Harbour, etc. It is shocking the emptiness. Local businesses failing all over the place, for lease signs everywhere in frmer thriving hospitality/retail strips. Was just all over the Westside yesterday and once you’re off the student/worker transportation corridors it’s an absolute ghost town. For hundreds of square blocks. This is unacceptable and destroying the social fabric here. So many folks of every background, every age and demographic, renters and homeowners alike are pissed off it’s come to this, and the younger ones are so discouraged and frustrated, politicians of all stripes AT EVERY LEVEL need to take note, serious social unrest is brewing.
Smoking Man.
Even though you’re a fictional character, thanks for the shout out to we all who admire the American president and what he’s doing.
For the record, I don’t think a municipal tax is the best way to deal with this, stop-gap, band-aid approach, but Gregor’s got an election coming up and needs to be seen to be doing *something*. If this moves us in the right direction then good! Long overdue. This should’ve been addressed with responsible demand-side policy a long time ago at provincial, and federal levels. The BC NDP I suspect will drop the enforcement hammer and play that angle in the 2018 budget announcement. If they don’t, they will, I suspect, be pilloried.
Worth noting this tax is a very effective way to mine ownership data. Owners can dispute the tax but must PROVE residency requirement with BCDL or CRA income tax return. Feds/Province/FINTRAC already cooperating on massive tax fraud/money laundering here. They’re building a massive registry to ferret out tax fraud and determine true foreign ownership levels.
This tax dodge was investigated…result were:
(i) USA convicted top KPMG officials
”
(ii) Canada ?
KPMG and clients negotiated secret amnesty deal with CRA.
Nothing new here Canadians…move along….” …do you truly not know the fundamental difference between the US Tax Code and our Income Tax Act Lost????
Well for starters, the IRS is fundamentally a tax collection arm of their government while the CRA is fundamentally a tax reporting arm of our government and a tax receiving agency.
Not paying your taxes in Canada s not now and has never been a crime. Not filing a complete and comprehensive tax return is the only actual crime and even then, only if you actually owe the government taxes does it become procecutable. You can owe all you want so long as you twll the gov how much you owe. In the US you can and do go to jail for being too broke to pay.
Also, in Canada Tax avoidance a considered a civil right and you have at sometimes been openly encouraged by CRA to arrange your finances to pay as little tax as legally required so, if you hired KPMG to do that and it turns out that their “Pros from Dover” got it wrong then you really haven’t tried to defraud Canada…just hired the wrong advisory.
Now if you lie and hide assets or income, that’s a crime in Canada because clearly you are “acting” to defraud and not filing a complete and comprehensive accounting of your finances.
“And critics correctly point out this is just, really, a tax on the wealthy masquerading as a benefit to the renter class. “-Garth
_ _ _
What’s wrong with taxing the wealthy? Stats show that ever since the error of the Reagan/Thatcher era the wealthiest have been accumulating more and more of the pie while the rest of us have watched our share diminished. Kvetchers would do well to remember King Louis XV’s remark “Après moi, le déluge”.
Thanks, Dissident. I realize it was a stupid question. I promise I’m not actually an idiot…
I just thought Garth often recommended against DIY investing like that for novices. So I wasn’t sure if he was simply referring to one’s local bank or what.
Still cant figure out where the money comes from………… is it just from people that bought pre 2014……… is everyone just trading equity at this point , how are homes selling for 1 mill plus in slurrey ( after viewing sold listings on 4000 sq ft lots in ordinary hoods!!) ………. my spouse works for the city, i know her wage , she has co workers talking about buying 1.2 mill dollar homes, mathematically it makes no sense………. explain?
http://www.whoownstheworld.com/canada/
90% of land in Canada is unused Crown land, est worth 13 trillion dollars . This unused land at 1% for being vacant would be about 13 Billion/ year. Send the bill to the Queen.
Robert Shiller interview with Canadian Couch Potato. It covers a lot of material we cover on this blog. Enjoy the weekend.
http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2017/11/10/podcast-12-robert-shiller-cape-crusader/