Cease & desist

In the recent past I received a letter from CREA, the mothership of realtors, informing me I could not use the word ‘realtor’ on this site. Expect legal action (leg irons, the rack, car battery on genitals), it intoned, unless I always said REALTOR®. Yup. Capital letters, little ® thingy. No snickering.

The document went on. This pathetic blog was also prohibited, upon pain of indefinite incarceration in a Brad Lamb concrete-walled condo with high strata fees, from saying ‘multiple listing service.’ Nope, it must be MLS®.

Naturally, I ignored it.

All this flooded back to mind when I heard about Shafquat Arefeen, a cool moister financial analyst with a must-read web site who committed the cardinal sin against realtors, and has also been threatened with castration by angry kittens. His crime was to create a gripping visualization of trends in the insane Toronto housing market, showing at a glance how unsustainable and fraught with risk housing has become. He published it. Over thirteen thousand people came to read it. The lawyers moved in.

So here is the cease-and-desist-or-face-vivisection letter Shafquat received, prompting him to fold.

The site displayed listing and selling prices, sales volumes and sold prices for individual properties. It’s just the kind of information freely available in real time to everyone in Nova Scotia, for example, at Viewpoint.ca. But in Ontario, you hang for it.

This begs a question: what are the realtors afraid of? The answer, it seems: educated consumers.

This purposeful opacity to data is exactly what got the Toronto Real Estate Board (the largest in North America) in hot trouble with the federal competition cops. Last year TREB lost a battle to keep its data secret when the courts ruled it was ‘anti-competitive.’ The 45,000-member cartel appealed, and the legal wrangling goes on. In the meantime the board continues to threaten any citizen, agent or broker who dares to publish information (it can be shared privately between an agent and her clients) arguing it’s proprietary and contravenes federal privacy laws.

Of course, keeping buyers intentionally dumb as to the sales history of a property, recent re-listing details, price increases or reductions, days on market and other relevant data was a key part of ensuring a housing boom would turn into a delusional bubble. Uneducated consumers were goaded into bidding wars, bully offers and blind auctions without any historic context to guide them. And while relevant information could have been demanded from their agents, most people didn’t know enough to ask, and many agents didn’t care to share. That’s when listing prices turned irrelevant and real estate became destined to implode.

So what does a rapid 20% price decline in the last few months tell us, with a detached home now worth less than it was a year ago?

It says too many paid too much, too hastily, too impetuously. The main sources of housing information were media reports, based almost solely on data released by real estate organizations. Realtors have routinely fudged the numbers, permitted multiple listings of the same property, ignored deals that eventually defaulted, withdrew data without notice (mid-month numbers disappeared in Toronto) and created Frankenumbers (as in Vancouver) that averaged out trends, effectively masking critical current market conditions. Meanwhile house pimps like Royal LePage and Re/Max pump out ‘reports’ based on sketchy data, internal surveys, regional managers’ comments and faerie dust, with the words reposted verbatim – as news – by our esteemed reporters. No wonder we went over the cliff.

So listen, Shaf. Man up. Spread the data. Embrace transparency. You’re on the right side of the issue. A decade from now, when the sun shines on all market info, this will seem so archaic.

Oh, I almost forgot: ‘realtor, realtor, realtor.’ Lock me up.

 

243 comments ↓

#1 Royal City Dweller on 09.15.17 at 5:55 pm

GUELPH, The Royal City, Is Bubble-Burst Resistant!

Apparently the market is tight (no supply) and buyers are bakck, swarming every For Sale sign.

What I see in Guelph currently is tragic, compared to few months ago,
but this Agent has hard facts at his disposal

I let the Agent speak”
” A far cry from what is happening in the GTA at the moment.
So why the difference?
In my opinion we are still in a very tight market inventory wise despite the increase in listings
over the past few months.
Our buyers after having taken the summer off have stepped back into the market place and
have been aggressive in getting a property nailed down.
Throw in a third factor of rising interest rates and pending qualification changes
I’d argue that some buyers have jumped in order to buy in a certain price point before
it became unaffordable.
Finally factor in an economy that has simply been strong and out performing expectations
and you have the setting for a very good market.

VERY GOOD MARKET. (LOL)

Ask your agent when is the best time to buy.
His her answer is always: NOW.
(Regardless of day, month, week, time of the day or season of the year)

#2 Randy on 09.15.17 at 5:57 pm

Most realtors are seriously under-qualified.

#3 BG on 09.15.17 at 5:58 pm

Badass.

#4 Royal City Dweller on 09.15.17 at 5:59 pm

Hey Adrejevski get this:
FURST! Again (see above)
Please feel free to congratulate me.

#5 crossbordershopper on 09.15.17 at 6:02 pm

re:#1
guelph is a controlled market, always has been, tight regulations about zoning, change zoning etc.
always more expensive then KW, and cambridge, even though a bit of a drive off the 401. even for the south end.
either way. Guelph, great city, was born there, left, for school never to return.
my dad will provide me with a large lot that can be torn down bungalo to build 445K, 3 townhouses easily to fit in. great retirement for me.
i guess i should of stayed in guelph and gotten into real estate would easily be a millionaire. either way, its coming to me upon death. The only good thing about Canada is it has a safety net, and in my case, paid off dad’s house will come to me. i could retire in Guelph, in one of the paid off condo’s i know the area VERY well, kinda slow and boring, but in retirement,
Guelph to Florida is ok.

#6 Madcat on 09.15.17 at 6:02 pm

The sweet smell of Realtor fear….

#7 PupPatrol on 09.15.17 at 6:04 pm

I’ve started my active research in the detached market in my area. Inquired today about a detached 3br house in Langley (BC) nice neighbourhood, south-facing yard. Last Saturday we missed the open house, so I called the following Wednesday and inquired if they had taken any offers. “They listed after the long weekend and were going to take offers on the Tuesday but received no offers.” To which I replied “So do you think we could offer below asking, if we were interested?” He replied “Oh yea, definitely.”
The climate is changing.
I repeat, it’s changing.

#8 AGuyInVancouver on 09.15.17 at 6:04 pm

Might I suggest Realturd ® as a substitute. You have my blessing to use it without the r thingy.

#9 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 09.15.17 at 6:04 pm

Sales cooled in the Central Okanagan (Peachland to Lake Country), a 13% drop from July sales of 679 units and 8.4% fewer sales than August of last year.

Overall inventory is slowly improving. Almost unchanged from July, but a 13% improvement from April (2709 units vs. 2393 units). The condo and townhouse segments remain tight due to affordability. First-time home buyers and Move-up buyers represent the majority of buyers outpacing supply. Single-family segment has seen a 6% increase in units over July and 25.7% more units than August last year.

Market indicators remain consistent over the last 3 months. “Days to Sell” holds steady at 60; Difference between “List Price vs. Sale Price” holds at 97.84%; “List to Sales Ratio” remains at 60% indicating conditions still favour the seller.

Market conditions are being driven by the positive net immigration of people in the area, strong economic conditions and favourable interest rates.

High level of new construction will help alleviate some pressure on demand over the next 12-24 months as new inventory comes on the market, which will, in turn, have a positive effect on affordability.

#10 Oakville sucks on 09.15.17 at 6:08 pm

The court of appeal should release their decision on TREB’s appeal before xmas. I don’t know what’s taking so long to review 2 days of hearings plus a ruling from before against TREB. If taking this long is it good news or bad news for TREB? It’s been 9 long months! Lawyers any idea???

Anybody have any links with sales data such as the one above?

#11 Danny on 09.15.17 at 6:12 pm

Thanks for exposing the bully tactics of the Real Estate Cartel….that the more I understand it …..does not reflect investment information in a democratic country….but more like a oligarchy country.
I for one will be starting my writing campaign to the Premier and to Consumers Affairs on what I perceive as unfair practices…….false representation of the market….and improper bias statements which are then pushed upon by the news outlets to the ill informed public when they make the most expensive purchase of their life. For too many the albatross of economic slavery.
Anyone going to join me?

#12 Happy Housing Crash on 09.15.17 at 6:13 pm

realtors? how about SHYSTERS or dirty SHYSTERS or Useless Eaters or SHYSTER Scumbag? They are true POS. They are evil and the government needs to SMASH that SHYSTER organization. Please people fire off some emails. It’s actually fun and therapeutic.

#13 Asterix1 on 09.15.17 at 6:14 pm

He should definetly keep his sire up and running! Fight the crooks!

The guy still needs financial backing if those crooks at TREB really want to go to Court, which they already are with the government.

TREB already lost the War, they are just trying to stall the capitucalion ceremony!

Our newspapers should be ashamed to print such garbage from the RE mafia. By lying, deceiving and keeping data away from the public, CRÉA and TREB should be charged with Financial fraud/crimes against Canadians.

#14 Vanrentor on 09.15.17 at 6:17 pm

Happy Housing Crash Guy, I suggest you us SHYSTERS® or they will come after you too!!

#15 robert james on 09.15.17 at 6:18 pm

The Happy Housing Crash guy is going to have fun with blog entry.. Those disgusting shysters !! Go Crash Go !!! lol

#16 Happy Housing Crash on 09.15.17 at 6:19 pm

You dirty SHYSTER SCUMBAGS hate the truth. Why you POS? Why do you hate the truth? I hate elementary school drop outs. High school is a pipe dream for realtors as some didn’t even see grade 9. It’s a joke. They are little cry baby criminals and the government has to break them up. The housing market will continue to crash. Please blog dogs keep the pressure on the government to crush these [email protected]

#17 Realturd ® on 09.15.17 at 6:19 pm

I see what you are doing there and it’s not legal.

Realturd ®

#18 Justin Beaver on 09.15.17 at 6:20 pm

I think the lack of honesty and transparency by the realtor associations is what bothers me more than anything. How have governments not cracked down on this, like Nova Scotia apparently did? It’s incredibly aggravating. At least publicly traded stocks must provide quarterly data adhering to a set of accounting standards. That doesn’t guarantee that a company won’t try to fudge the numbers but at least it makes the attempt.

My contempt for realtors is surpassed only by my contempt for the governments that have failed to curtail their fraudulent data reporting.

#19 Willy H on 09.15.17 at 6:22 pm

“But in Ontario, you hang for it.”
___ ___ ___

– LOL, Ontario, Canada’s Wild West!

The T-Dot Real Estate Brainwashing cartel is defending it’s turf like the Taliban defends it’s poppy fields! These tricksters are probably looking to Sharia Law for inspiration.

#20 FNAiks on 09.15.17 at 6:25 pm

Couldn’t possibly take a decade to unlock the data could it? That’s some bull$#%+ right there. #realtorrealtorrealtor.

#21 Fran Deck Jr. on 09.15.17 at 6:25 pm

Garth, you are such a rebel.
I love this blog.

#22 tkid on 09.15.17 at 6:28 pm

I still like Loam Lizards.

#23 Rainclouds on 09.15.17 at 6:30 pm

Gonna go full H.H.C.E.

Liars, thieves, useless parasites = scumbag house sales =realtor

Do those imbeciles have ANY idea how much they are loathed, scorned, laughed at, dismissed as useless scum. Hint: (you are below tow truck drivers and used car sales……even politicians have a few people who like them)

Nobody respects your “profession” you are universally despised…..

#24 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 09.15.17 at 6:30 pm

Great post Garth. What a racket.

“Let the free market work its magic” they said. Who needs government regulation anyway?

#25 HanMan3000 on 09.15.17 at 6:32 pm

TREB should want to make data more open and have more educated real estate buyers. This would allow real estate agents to focus on more value-add activities rather then spending time looking up prices for their clients. Jobs that relied on special access to data as the primary value-add, such as travel agents and stock brokers, have seen huge changes to their business models. Only those who add true value survive.

#26 Lead Paint on 09.15.17 at 6:32 pm

Shaf and Garth, I’ll contribute to your legs defense fund!

#27 Lead Paint on 09.15.17 at 6:33 pm

Legal defense fund, but if they come for your legs we’ll defend those too.

#28 Blacksheep on 09.15.17 at 6:35 pm

“So what does a rapid 20% price decline in the last few months tell us, with a detached home now worth less than it was a year ago?”
————————————–
The above statement is accepted by most as fact on this blog.

Unless I am mistaken, this statement is based on the “average price” of SDH’s that have sold in T.O. (last 30 days?)

I have not seen documented, linked to proof, of the large number of homes that would be required, to be selling significantly below, the buy price to justify the claimed 20% decline in prices?

I will politely request again, that ANYBODY (Shafquat?) whom can, please share documented, linked to confirmation, of the this correction occurring.

Remember: “Buy Price VS Confirmed Sell Price” is all we need. There has to be 100’s of sample transactions that have already happened to get a 20% correction.

Thanks in advance.

#29 Tbone on 09.15.17 at 6:37 pm

I just had a house listed , senior citizen doesn’t need it anymore .
I used two real estate agents I have known for decades.
Nice guys , both of them .
Nothing like what is described on this blog. Lol

#30 Doug t on 09.15.17 at 6:39 pm

Realtor LMAO
Realtor sad peeps
Realtor swarmy
Realtor – why do they always have goofy pics
Realtor – talks about nothing else all day all night
Realtor rinse and repeat

RATM

#31 Caseyvp on 09.15.17 at 6:39 pm

Realtor realtor realtor

LOL

#32 WUL on 09.15.17 at 6:40 pm

#10 Oakville sucks on 09.15.17 at 6:08 pm
The court of appeal should release their decision on TREB’s appeal before xmas. I don’t know what’s taking so long to review 2 days of hearings plus a ruling from before against TREB. If taking this long is it good news or bad news for TREB? It’s been 9 long months! Lawyers any idea???
suesuesuesue…

Okie:

In my experience (34 yrs) nothing can be read into the length of time a court takes to release a reserved judgment in terms of the likelihood of success of a particular party to the suit.

At best it means the court is struggling with an issue or two. Or they are on vacay.

#33 Shaf - read this! on 09.15.17 at 6:40 pm

Shaf, please start a “gofundme” campaign (or something similar) to start a preemptive legal defense fund.

I’ll contribute $50 to help you gird up those juicy loins of yours if you do this.

I’ve spent 10 times more than this on a useless booze filled night so at least I’ll feel like I’ve contributed to a useful fight for truth and justice.

Please do it! You may be pleasantly surprised by the funds you can collect and it might make TREB realize they might be kicking a hornet’s nest.

#34 J on 09.15.17 at 6:46 pm

Where are the hearings at for the release of sales, days on market, price changes etc. I have asked several times. What is the time line?

#35 patrick on 09.15.17 at 6:53 pm

Good on you GT.

I place a high regard for this issue so I am glad for today’s content.

Structured data is the most important component contributing to an educated purchase of any asset. It should be publicly available without a fee or a monopolistic agency filtering access.

Current data accessibility relating to days-on-market and former sold pricing in Canada is inadequate. Also `re-listing` as a reset for DoM should be illegal.

I’ve heard the arguments from Realtors protecting `their` system, but data protectionism inevitably just damages the market.

Have a great weekend.

#36 Tim on 09.15.17 at 6:54 pm

Other than being a realtor, where else can you get about 8 weeks of training and make so much money? Now’s always the time to buy…lol

#37 JJ on 09.15.17 at 6:55 pm

DELETED

#38 Last...but not leased on 09.15.17 at 6:56 pm

I understand the bile filled diatribes re TREB.

…..but the point is do they have the legal right to make such threats..ie is their information proprietary?

If it is…then we run the risk of the information being kept “for their eyes only” ?!?!

#39 Lesley on 09.15.17 at 6:57 pm

All kidding aside, my understanding of the law (and no, I am not a lawyer) is that NO ONE can declare ownership and therefore, prevent the use by others, of ANY word in the English language.

#40 Smartalox on 09.15.17 at 6:59 pm

Keep it up!

Every time the RE Cartel (R) pleads its case that the information on comparables is proprietary, and those to control, they reach just a little farther into asserting that the information is theirs and theirs alone.

It would not take much more for an unhappy client to make a case that the association and its agents collude to manipulate real estate sales data, and keep information material to the transaction out of the hands of the of the parties to the transaction.

It could result in one hell of a class action lawsuit!

In fact, given my experience with organizational lethargy when it comes to self-regulating professions, I would not be at all surprised to find out that the organization in question lacks any specific policy or guideline regarding what’s acceptable in terms of the transmission of sold and comparables data to parties in a real estate transaction. Instead the agency is abusing its copyright in the interest of furthering a lucrative monopoly.

Anybody every overpay for a property in Toronto, only to find out later that

1) the property listings that were offered by the agent as ‘comparables’ were priced lower, were outdated (markets change, sometimes quickly), were re-listed several times, or sold for substantially less than the listed price?
2) Were ALL comparables that were available (i.e.: all local transactions in the last x years provided for comparison? Were any left out? Why?

As a buyer or a seller, the organization in question is preventing you from knowing both those answers. Their agents expect you to make your investment decision based on the information that they feel like piecing out to you – and you have to accept it.

Won’t somebody PLEASE get confirmation in writing of points 1 and 2 listed above? If we do, and can prove that the organization in question, or their agents did not disclose the information accurately and specifically, you would have quite the grounds for a lawsuit (and a clear case for a class action), particularly if your investment(s) lost value as a result.

#41 Ian on 09.15.17 at 7:00 pm

Happy to talk at length about the data on the way up, no one can say anything on the crash down.

This is pathetic. Data should be freely available. It is in the stock market. And congrats to NS, I did not know about that but they clearly know how a market should work.

Tim Hudak should be ashamed of himself. CREA is a joke. I guess going up 7x on his pretax salary upon arriving in the private sector means he now feels entitled to lie to the public. He is no longer in my good books although I am UltraBlue. Dishonest lying cheat!

Happy Housing is correct. This is an industry that is corrupt, objectionable, and out to cheat the public. There is no denying it now.

Garth, I’m sad Old Ron left! Please encourage him to come back. He is transparent and honest and we need voices like that.

#42 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 09.15.17 at 7:07 pm

#14 Vanrentor

You are 100% right. Please you dirty SHYSTERS I will use SHYSTERS®. I don’t want to face legal action from the SHYSTERS® organization. Once again sorry SHYSTERS® if I offended you in any way.

#43 Dan.t on 09.15.17 at 7:07 pm

North Korea has a more open housing system than Canada… ok, that was a low blow but seriously, talk about outright criminal behavior going unpunished, paid for media puking out realtor (c) (copyright) garbage…

I love the happy housing crash guy because he calls a spade a spade, real estate board is such a joke.

Rob, lie, steal, get poor millennia morons in bidding war with themselves ( backed by dumb boomer Bank of mom money), and from outside the bubble it is so obvious but Canadians have been brainwashed. It really is mesmerizing to go to BC and see average wages and house prices… let alone cost of living. F%^*k me.

Seems to be all good though.

The powers that be love Canada. Do anything to Canadians and they say sorry. Sorry, you’re right, I need to pay more tax, sorry, your right, I need to outbid myself for this 1.2 mil Milton tear down, sorry, I didn’t mean to make a fuss…

Take it and like it or take action. How is hiding stats for one of the biggest purchases in your life time fair… and relying on a shyster who think prices will rise because interest rates are rising and have the economic background of a lame donkey, even letting most of them speak about economics should be criminal let alone having them give you for sound financial advice, is just criminal, but it goes on and on.

Do that in any other industry. People know more about cell plans than what the past sales history of the POS box they are about to buy… bet if the knew Tom the realturd, bought it 18 months ago for 320 and now wants you to pay 530k they would think real hard about buying but, alas, it’s simply too hard to actually research it, so listen to the shady realtor friend and bid up prices.

People deserve what they get. At least you are trying Garth. Respect to that but man seems like every year the stupidity reaches new highs.

I think Canada plan is to inflate their way out of the DB boomer pensions and debt so plan accordingly. Pretty soon working at a gas station will pay 20$ hour and prices will rise and rise and gov obligations will be repaid with funny money.

Anyhow, that’s my rant for today… don’t like it, rush out and pick up a 1 bedroom 825k YVR condo or two, it’ll make u feel great.

#44 Cherry Picker on 09.15.17 at 7:10 pm

Can we all at least agree that there should be an extra, huge lawyer tax just for growing up and wanting to be a doofus.

#45 S.Bby on 09.15.17 at 7:10 pm

I’d have just ignored that emailed letter (it went into my spam, it went to someone else, my server ate it, etc…) unless it’s a registered letter he signs for receipt of then too bad.

#46 tccontrarian on 09.15.17 at 7:14 pm

#33 Shaf – read this! on 09.15.17 at 6:40 pm

Shaf, please start a “gofundme” campaign (or something similar) to start a preemptive legal defense fund.

I’ll contribute $50 to help you gird up those juicy loins of yours if you do this.

I’ve spent 10 times more than this on a useless booze filled night so at least I’ll feel like I’ve contributed to a useful fight for truth and justice.

Please do it! You may be pleasantly surprised by the funds you can collect and it might make TREB realize they might be kicking a hornet’s nest.
********************************************

I was thinking the same thing! I’d contribute at least $100 to the fund in exposing these ba$sturds.

TCC

#47 Corban on 09.15.17 at 7:15 pm

Garth you are a king among men! Please continue to bite your thumb at these Montagues!

#48 Realtor on 09.15.17 at 7:16 pm

Crea and all its caca should be abolish. Realtors are gangsters.

#49 Bob on 09.15.17 at 7:16 pm

Love it Garth, thanks!
These are the fights Mr Turdo and Mr Moron should be fighting instead.

#50 Dan.t on 09.15.17 at 7:19 pm

#12 Happy Housing Crash on 09.15.17 at 6:13 pm
realtors? how about SHYSTERS or dirty SHYSTERS or Useless Eaters or SHYSTER Scumbag? They are true POS. They are evil and the government needs to SMASH that SHYSTER organization. Please people fire off some emails. It’s actually fun and therapeutic.
_________________

Haha, love it, wish I was that motivated but if enough people do it, maybe, just maybes elected officials will do something… wouldn’t that be a shock.

#51 Paully on 09.15.17 at 7:19 pm

Personally, I like “Realtywhore!”

#52 Sultan of Sudbury on 09.15.17 at 7:24 pm

I’ve seen enough of the behavior going on RE-land to reach my own determination that the market does not operate with any sort of efficiency or interest to the consumer.

It is in fact, as described, subject to gross asymmetries in how information is shared, delivered and consumed.

#53 Ian on 09.15.17 at 7:26 pm

#28 Blacksheep

What does ‘selling below the buy price’ mean? I told you yesterday what to do:

https://www.zolo.ca/toronto-real-estate/trends

It’s got average sales price, and inventory v sales too for added entertainment.

Remember…for the deals that are reneged on…those transactions are false which means the reality is even more bearish than this data.

M48ON – UltraBlue!

#54 Todd on 09.15.17 at 7:29 pm

Why refer to them as realtors at all? Call them what they are, Used House Salesmen/Saleswomen.

#55 rainclouds on 09.15.17 at 7:29 pm

Based on my limited understanding of the TREB /GOC battle.The Supreme Court refused to hear this so it went back to the appeal court.

My question:
If TREB has a ruling against them. Does this mean no more appeals and we leap into the end of the last century or is this going to drag on ad infinitum till Albania is the second to last country allowing craven self interested cartels to keep public information away from the public for their own nefarious self interedted reasons ?

#56 Andrew Woburn on 09.15.17 at 7:31 pm

This is what the CREA website says:

“LIABILITY AND WARRANTY DISCLAIMER
CREA makes no representations about the suitability of the data or graphics published on this website. The listing information is deemed reliable, but not guaranteed. Everything on this website is provided “As Is” without warranty of any kind including all implied warranties and conditions of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, title and non-infringement. Neither CREA nor any of its suppliers shall be liable for any direct, incidental, consequential, indirect or punitive damages arising out of the user’s access to or use of this website.”

Unfortunately for CREA, I don’t think courts necessarily take such unilateral declarations of legal immunity at face value.

When I was studying Law 101, directors of unincorporated societies/associations were jointly and severally liable for judgments against the entity they represent. In ordinary words, any one of them could be liable to pay the whole of a judgment against the entity and have to try and recover pro rata from the others.

I assume this is still true but that the CREA board gets top legal advice and carries liability insurance. Still, if I were one of them, I would be increasingly uneasy about the prospect of class actions. There is going to be a large pool of very pissed off people.

#57 Ian on 09.15.17 at 7:32 pm

#42 Happy Housing

Omg this is beautiful. What a glorious way to go into the weekend! Shysters registered.

I’m so happy I’m in tears! Go the bear pack!!!!

#58 under the radar on 09.15.17 at 7:33 pm

I have been dealing with realtors daily for over 30 years. 10% of the agents make 90% of the money. Of the 10% , 2 % are really good agents who understand the market and some basic legal concepts. They are careful and purposeful. The other 8% know a lot of people and network very well. The majority have no clue and could not empty urine from a boot without instructions.

#59 NoName on 09.15.17 at 7:33 pm

i posted this one once before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAeprWIOQqQ

#60 Mandria on 09.15.17 at 7:34 pm

I would love a way to comment and support Shafquat’s website though I know it would probably mean a world of headaches for him. I’m also beyond ecxtatic that he’s chosen a career (so far) in the gov Regulator Community. Regulators! Mount Up!

#61 NoName on 09.15.17 at 7:35 pm

Must Watch !!!

when you loos neutral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL2Qj57yCas

#62 n1tro on 09.15.17 at 7:36 pm

You got to love lawyers. Write a letter, make an empty threat, scare the receiver into submission.

Today, due to misuse of trademarks such as “realtors” they are merely generic product names in some jurisdictions with no accompanying trademark/service mark rights. This is what happens to trademarks if the public comes to regard a brand name as the generic name of a
product or service.

But good luck CREA!

#63 JD on 09.15.17 at 7:37 pm

PIPEDA is federal legislation. If Viewpoint.ca can publish sales history in NS why is it a PIPEDA breach in Toronto?

#64 Blobby on 09.15.17 at 7:38 pm

Can you imagine if the stock market behaved in this way?

#65 Investx on 09.15.17 at 7:43 pm

Shame on CREA and TREB.

Go Garth!

#66 Whipster1 on 09.15.17 at 7:44 pm

I don’t see how it can differ from province to province. It needs to be transparent across the nation. Bc assessment provides sale price and date of sale why can’t this dude? Realtors are so shady…..

#67 n1tro on 09.15.17 at 7:45 pm

#39 Lesley on 09.15.17 at 6:57 pm
All kidding aside, my understanding of the law (and no, I am not a lawyer) is that NO ONE can declare ownership and therefore, prevent the use by others, of ANY word in the English language.
_________________________
Realtor isnt a word. It was made up and CREA has trademarked it several times. What they failed to do is establish the word being associated as a brand exclusive to CREA so it is akin to people saying pass me a “Kleenex” when they mean to say “tissue”.

#68 Andrew Woburn on 09.15.17 at 7:46 pm

Uncle Garth is always telling us to invest in your future through a balanced portfolio. This is what happens if you don’t. Look into this crystal ball and see the future for all too many.

– MEET THE CAMPERFORCE, AMAZON’S NOMADIC RETIREE ARMY

“Many of the workers who joined Camper­Force were around traditional retirement age, in their sixties or even seventies. They were glad to have a job, even if it involved walking as many as 15 miles a day on the concrete floor of a warehouse. From a hiring perspective, the RVers were a dream labor force. They showed up on demand and dispersed just before Christmas in what the company cheerfully called a “taillight parade.” They asked for little in the way of benefits or protections. And though warehouse jobs were physically taxing—not an obvious fit for older bodies—recruiters came to see Camper­Force workers’ maturity as an asset. These were diligent, responsible employees. Their attendance rates were excellent.”

#69 Snoopy on 09.15.17 at 7:49 pm

Garth, you have my email and can look me up (I assume you won’t publish name on the blog). Anyway, leading copyright/IP lawyer at leading firm. Happy to work for you or this other gent for basically free (pay the court filing fees and photocopy costs) to defend against this nonsense. Keep in touch. Snoopy.

This could get interesting. — Garth

#70 Willy H on 09.15.17 at 7:51 pm

Wiki-Definition for:

TREBULATION
– a cause of great trouble or suffering resulting from real property transactions based on purposefully manipulated and misrepresented landed property abstracts provided by the Trebumvirate.

TREBUMVIRATE
– an ancient Torontonian board of three officials jointly responsible for the dissemination of dubious landed property proclamations for the sole purpose of concurrently swelling their members and landed property valuations.

TREBALISM
– the state or fact of being organized in a tribe or tribes for the sole purpose of promulgating dubious landed property declarations on the unwashed masses.
– the behavior and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one’s own tribe for the sole purposes of preserving the benefits of the said tribe in the form of commissions levied on the landed property transactions of the fiscally unlearned plebs.

#71 Elle on 09.15.17 at 7:54 pm

Weak argument on the access and privacy grounds IMHO. Don’t know all the listing system details/access for treb. But if the house-hawkers believe pipeda is being violated maybe are they being negligent in their protection and management of others personal information…can’t have it both ways?

#72 I'm stupid on 09.15.17 at 7:54 pm

Realtor
realtor
realtor

Multiple listing service
Multiple listing service
Multiple listing service

They can lock me up too!

#73 Chico on 09.15.17 at 7:55 pm

It’s on days like these that the “happy housing crash” guy seems like a rather sane fellow! Happy Housing Crash!

#74 MSM-Free Zone on 09.15.17 at 7:59 pm

Capital letters? Seriously? These neck-tied kindergarten drop-outs really need to get over themselves.

Almost as pathetic as Tim Who-Dat’s self-serving idiotic “war-on-first-time-home-buyers” statement yesterday.

Seems rEaLTuRd® ‘s have been taking Bullying for Hypocritical Dummies lessons from America’s #1 thin-skinned serial liar.

I might have to hang a GT defense pumpkin this year labelled “Hypocrisy can be cured! Give Now”

#75 mike from mtl on 09.15.17 at 8:00 pm

Duh.

Just like with eBay completed listings, having access to actual real solds, unfiltered scares them. Access to real data is downright scary to those who are lying like salesmen and realtors.

Firsthand I know how the used market moves based on recent, actual, solds. They set the real, benchmark and asking price.

This is exactly why I don’t trust anything a realtor says, complete and pure garbage. Having access to the land registry is the truth they can’t handle.

Why anyone would pay them 5+% to lie to their face and collect doing absolutely nothing is beyond me.

#76 I'm stupid on 09.15.17 at 8:01 pm

I’m stupid so can someone please explain to me how a property listed for sale to the public can be protected under privacy laws? It’s like walking around naked and having everyone that looks charged for being a peeping Tom. Once my penis is flapping in the wind for all to see I give up that right to privacy. Just saying I’m stupid!

#77 rainclouds on 09.15.17 at 8:02 pm

Of course all the “reputable” house sales people could demand their association show ethical and technical leadership and give up this fallacy of pretending to give a sh#t about the consumers who pay their bloated fees.

Zillow in the US had very little negative impact on house sales people. here in canuckistan they are clearly more interested in fleecing than helping. When this blows lots to answer for.

Regulation ,regulation, and more regulation in their miserable future……

#78 Last..but not leased on 09.15.17 at 8:04 pm

Reducto Ad Absurdum…

If a potential buyer has ZERO access to TREB/CREA data……how would one proceed ?

#79 Freedom First on 09.15.17 at 8:09 pm

Naturally, I ignored it.-Garth
…………………………………………………………………

Perfection! Pure Garth.

Happy Housing Crash (<:

Love this Blog!

Freedom First
Master of Freedomonics

#80 Raj on 09.15.17 at 8:10 pm

Shaf: Man up and let us know if u need help with legal fight. You got my vote and funds

#81 Mean Gene on 09.15.17 at 8:11 pm

REALTURDS® strike out again.

#82 For those about to flop... on 09.15.17 at 8:12 pm

Hey Crowdie,are you alright?

Or are you stuck in an elevator in between floors…

M43BC

#83 Yanniel on 09.15.17 at 8:14 pm

Garth, I am so glad you gave the finger to these bullies.

Thank you.

Yanniel.

#84 Victor V on 09.15.17 at 8:16 pm

#28 Blacksheep on 09.15.17 at 6:35 pm
“So what does a rapid 20% price decline in the last few months tell us, with a detached home now worth less than it was a year ago?”
————————————–
The above statement is accepted by most as fact on this blog.

Unless I am mistaken, this statement is based on the “average price” of SDH’s that have sold in T.O. (last 30 days?)

I have not seen documented, linked to proof, of the large number of homes that would be required, to be selling significantly below, the buy price to justify the claimed 20% decline in prices?

I will politely request again, that ANYBODY (Shafquat?) whom can, please share documented, linked to confirmation, of the this correction occurring.

Remember: “Buy Price VS Confirmed Sell Price” is all we need. There has to be 100’s of sample transactions that have already happened to get a 20% correction.

Thanks in advance.

====================
====================

Here you go: https://toronto.listing.ca/detached-home-price-history.htm

SDH April 2017 = $1,275,000
SDH Aug 2017 = $895,000

#85 Willy H on 09.15.17 at 8:16 pm

Wiki-Definition for:

TREBASM
– a state of sexual arousal induced by the closing of a ‘double-ended’ landed property transaction resulting in the arrival of uncontrolled multiple commissions.
– a similiar, although less monetarily rewarding state of sexual arousal can by induced by donning a tightly fitted jade penis ring and inserting an amply-sized buttocks plug under the Harvest Moon as practiced by the Trebumvirate.

#86 Victor V on 09.15.17 at 8:30 pm

According to John Pasalis, President of Realosphy Realty, sales across GTA were down 32% for the first 2 weeks of Sept with freeholds sales down 35% and condo sales down 25%

#87 Dean on 09.15.17 at 8:32 pm

Snoopy always comes to the rescue.

#88 Jimmy Johnson on 09.15.17 at 8:41 pm

Hey Garth…Love your blog and have been a reader for what seems like a decade…I run a VPN. When I log onto realtor I get a message to confirm I am not a machine…realtor is the only site I have come across to ask…weird…Is this a us site?

#89 DON on 09.15.17 at 8:42 pm

To all the r e a l t o r s out there hiding the info on M L S – can you be sued by clients. For doing the following.

“Realtors have routinely fudged the numbers, permitted multiple listings of the same property, ignored deals that eventually defaulted, withdrew data without notice (mid-month numbers disappeared in Toronto) and created Frankenumbers (as in Vancouver) that averaged out trends, effectively masking critical current market conditions. Meanwhile house pimps like Royal LePage and Re/Max pump out ‘reports’ based on sketchy data, internal surveys, regional managers’ comments and faerie dust, with the words reposted verbatim – as news – by our esteemed reporters.”

WUL or other lawyers…can someone sue for misinformation. Can we sue the realturds and/or media outlets for not fact checking and quoting faulty information.

Soon desperate angry homeowners will need to try any angle!

#90 Blacksheep on 09.15.17 at 8:44 pm

Victor # 84,

“Here you go: https://toronto.listing.ca/detached-home-price-history.htm

SDH April 2017 = $1,275,000
SDH Aug 2017 = $895,000
————————————–
Victor,

Unfortunately, you are quoting the same tired (useless)
“Average sale price” as a reference.

The only thing that will prove a 20% correction is:

“Buy price VS Completed sell price” linked to documented sources.

There will be 100’s of transaction examples showing heavy losses with a 20% correction and a city the size of T.O.

Thanks for your response.

What does that even mean? You want a 20% decline between accepted offer date and closing? Weird. — Garth

#91 DON on 09.15.17 at 8:45 pm

#11 Danny on 09.15.17 at 6:12 pm

Thanks for exposing the bully tactics of the Real Estate Cartel….that the more I understand it …..does not reflect investment information in a democratic country….but more like a oligarchy country.
I for one will be starting my writing campaign to the Premier and to Consumers Affairs on what I perceive as unfair practices…….false representation of the market….and improper bias statements which are then pushed upon by the news outlets to the ill informed public when they make the most expensive purchase of their life. For too many the albatross of economic slavery.
Anyone going to join me?
**********
Class action lawsuit Boyzz!

#92 Nick on 09.15.17 at 8:46 pm

#28 Blacksheep on 09.15.17 at 6:35 pm

Lol dude just get access to MLS and look for yourself. It’s all there. Why do you think they want that information for themselves?

#93 For those about to flop... on 09.15.17 at 8:48 pm

#66 Whipster1 on 09.15.17 at 7:44 pm
I don’t see how it can differ from province to province. It needs to be transparent across the nation. Bc assessment provides sale price and date of sale why can’t this dude? Realtors are so shady…..

/////////////////////////

B.C assessment is good up to a point.

It only covers three years which is o.k in a rising market but recently I had to reach out to a realtor on here because I discovered some 2013 built condos out in Richmond that overpayed but a wide margin and the market has yet to catch up.They are taking losses four years later in a segment of the market that has risen significantly.

Also it takes 3/4 months for the information to be updated , which is why I try to work with realtors on here and give them individually a chance to help people out anonymously.

I don’t get that many replies,I tried to get a recent sale done on record last night but got no reply.

I am not interested in calling them shysters even though they won’t help me bring transparency to the Vancouver marketplace, but all this means is that I have to wait a few months and publish it when the database is updated.

I have been asking for help to publish information on Vancouver real estate in real time for the last nine months,I get the occasional guest cameo, but the cold shoulder soon follows when they realize you want to keep the information flowing.

There can be no crying on their part when I do this , as they were given a chance to help me show a win ,Pink Snow or Pink Draw.

You can mock to Flop.

You can doubt the Flop.

But you can’t stop the Flop…

M43BC

#94 DON on 09.15.17 at 8:52 pm

Shaf

Solution: send the data to Snowden and get him to put it on a Russian server. Expose these real good liars.

#95 Not a lawyer but... on 09.15.17 at 8:52 pm

I found the page at web.archive.org for 9/12. the visualization didn’t load because it is a link that the archive didn’t crawl and has since been removed.

The page has the disclaimer “Since the data was scraped…”.

I think that means that it was taken from public web pages by a web robot. Wouldn’t that mean that the cease and desist letter hasn’t a leg to stand on?

I suppose all those scraped pages had permission to make the data public so what is the complaint? Shafquat’s original work with publicly available data?

What do you law-dawgs among the blawg dawgs have to say about this?

Maybe those cease-and-desist-ers are very busily going after all those scraped pages?

#96 Wrk.dover on 09.15.17 at 8:53 pm

I don’t know why you flatter Realators by spelling their name correctly.

I have a special grudge for those whores.

Some lose friends to hard drugs or cults, I lost the longest term friend I had to Realator scourge. Known him since 1959, and now I can’t believe a word he has uttered since joining their ilk some thirty years ago.

He can’t even trust what he says to himself to be true!

#97 For those about to flop... on 09.15.17 at 8:58 pm

49 pm
Garth, you have my email and can look me up (I assume you won’t publish name on the blog). Anyway, leading copyright/IP lawyer at leading firm. Happy to work for you or this other gent for basically free (pay the court filing fees and photocopy costs) to defend against this nonsense. Keep in touch. Snoopy.

This could get interesting. — Garth

/////////////////

Snoopy,I might need some help too.

I can pay the court filing fee,but I might need you to waive the photocopy costs…

M43BC

#98 2 Cents Canadian on 09.15.17 at 8:59 pm

@#36
Only prostitution, extortion and drug dealing comes to mind.

#99 Bobdog on 09.15.17 at 9:09 pm

DELETED

#100 2 Cents Canadian on 09.15.17 at 9:11 pm

It kills me that the people making 2-2.5% of the whole real estate transactions have the industry in their control and try to call all the shots. The golden rule is the one with the gold rules ….. the guy walking around with a million dollar cheque should have the power …. not the 2% guy renting a desk, and and Audi. If buyers formed their own “association” and stopped buying for a month or two … some needed clarity would re-established as to who is in control.

#101 Bobdog on 09.15.17 at 9:18 pm

Of course I didn’t really register a thought crime domain. That would be illegal. Fraud is ok though.

#102 Dobermanduke on 09.15.17 at 9:23 pm

I’ll chip in as well

Realtor
realtor
realtor

Multiple listing service
Multiple listing service
Multiple listing service

M55ON

#103 Bobby on 09.15.17 at 9:28 pm

Does anyone really believe anything a realtor says? Most just say the market only goes up and I’ve seen some spectacular crashes.
I sold my house privately. Quite frankly, the realtor that represented one buyer really represented their client poorly. They lost the house, but offered more and saw it first. Go figure.

#104 Wishful Thinking on 09.15.17 at 9:37 pm

Here are two recent examples of how shady realtors are and their only interest (even when “representing” you) is to jack up prices.

1) I see a home (I know enough always to use seller agent and benefit from 2.5 percent discount against any idiot overbidding) but alas this sellers agent insists on me coming with my own realtor (so ok – maybe he has ethics and doesn’t want a conflict of interest I can respect that) but the idiot realtor I try to use refused to put an offer in for me because I had the audacity to get upset at him for not revealing that the last comp
He tried to use as basis for my bid had an extra 500 square feet of outdoor living space that the unit I was looking at didn’t. In other words – he fails to mention the 500 square foot distinction and when I insist on at least taking that into account in my bid he is outraged.

2) I move on to another realtor and this one refuses to
Put in a bid for me because I have he audacity of bidding based on late 2016 price per square foot rather than 2017 (I say – given rate hikes and pending stress test) and taking into account recent special assessment for unit and it’s been on market for month I want to offer based on 2016 price (less than a year ago mind you) and the con man realtor who is suppose to represent my “interests” is outraged that I would even consider a low ball bid. They are outraged if you refuse to over pay for crap.

Why do you need a prospectus to sell $5k worth of securities but you can blatantly lie about a $1milliom investment ?!?

EVERY REAL ESTATE “professional” JS A CON MAN.

#105 ANON on 09.15.17 at 9:40 pm

People (realtorz included) should know when they’re conquered. But they don’t.

#106 meslippery on 09.15.17 at 9:45 pm

I said before realtors may have some value but 5 or 6%.
Sell it yourself.

#107 Triplenet on 09.15.17 at 9:50 pm

#66
BC Assessment’s mandate is NOT to provide you with accurate inventory, refined sales data, trends or anything for analytical purposes with regard to real estate values.
The address, legal description and perhaps property ownership may be accurate (but don’t bet on it).
If you and the other grumpy old men who live on this blog want to buy 10 or 100 houses – you have to pay for this type of information.
If you want to buy ONE house , then pay the 5k, hire a real estate professional, wait 5 years and you’re in the money.
Of course a lot of you may be dead by then. Remember, God doesnt like losers, dont f*^€¢ this up. Its your last chance to be rich.
PS – Aren’t all these millennial munchkins YOUR grandchildren?
WTF did you teach your children???
We’re all in this mess because of you.
Remember….if your not very smart, pay for it.
And quit bitching.

#108 Short Vancouver on 09.15.17 at 9:52 pm

Let’s not forget the scam perpetuated often in Vancouver, especially on the highest priced condo sales. Seller/developer wants $5 Million. Buyer negotiates down to $4.2 Million. Condo gets “officially” sold at $5 Million. How can that happen? Developer wants to perpetuate the illusion of highest price, so buyer is told to write the cheque for $5 million and upon completion receives back a cheque for $800,000 difference. Incidentals like commission; PPT and such is also covered by developer. What is this $800,000 you ask? Well it’s called a “furniture allowance”, and even though it is a cheque for cash the crooked system allows it.. Complete and utter deception allowing the developer to log a $5 Million sale. Would this not be a criminal act in virtually any other business? It was common in the USA during the credit crisis/real estate blow up back in 2008 and 2009. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the real estate industry with full transparency and data access to the public. Every manipulation will eventually come back to haunt this market. Corrections in all markets are equal and opposite to the delusion that precedes them. This one will be epic as it unwinds.

#109 Herb on 09.15.17 at 9:52 pm

Shaf and Snoopy ,

taking my lefty principles seriously, I’m in for 1K.

#110 For those about to flop... on 09.15.17 at 9:53 pm

Below is my post from last night,I will put it up an give the realtors on here a second chance…

M43BC

//////////////////////

Not much happening on the detached front in my Pink Folder ,but this condo sold 4 days ago and so I will put it up and hopefully a realtor will tell us how much it went for.

Maybe somewhere between buy and ask…

M43BC

2706 1077 W Cordova Street, Vancouver paid 1.25

May 10:$1,388,000
Aug 18: $1,325,000
Change: – 63000.00 -5%

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/1077-w-cordova-street/2706

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=RDAwMDAwWlI5Rg==

#111 realtor on 09.15.17 at 9:54 pm

I wish realtors are working for the better society, met with some and most of them trying to drag you with false data, unethical things like fake documents and mortgages, hiding real stuff, and not helping the society they should be for the development. I hope some day there will be regulation in the profession and things will be transparent to everyone.

#112 steerage steward on 09.15.17 at 9:57 pm

As always, thank you Garth

You call that a letter?! Had a few sent to me. At lest they could say to and to me and you

Lost art I guess

#113 OttawaMike on 09.15.17 at 10:02 pm

Garth, you have my email and can look me up (I assume you won’t publish name on the blog). Anyway, leading copyright/IP lawyer at leading firm. Happy to work for you or this other gent for basically free (pay the court filing fees and photocopy costs) to defend against this nonsense. Keep in touch. Snoopy.

This could get interesting. — Garth

/////////////////

Last lawyer I used charged something like $ 85 / page for photocopying.
Lawyers always win. Even if they lose the case.

#114 steerage steward on 09.15.17 at 10:02 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxeiv4mNM9s

#115 Ronaldo on 09.15.17 at 10:08 pm

An example of a top notch RealTor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T5iBqPM4tE

#116 Mr Reailty on 09.15.17 at 10:15 pm

All of us blog dogs should email the law firm and ring the Game of Thrones bell:

Shame, shame…….shame, shame

Mr Reality

#117 Last...but not leased on 09.15.17 at 10:20 pm

Re Realtors…

Unfair to tar them all….if you had a bad experience maybe look in the mirror. If 1/2 a brain…should be able to tell a good one from a bad one or you deserve what you get.

I’ve seen both extremes, and a good realtor is priceless.

#118 acdel on 09.15.17 at 10:20 pm

Excellent article Garth!

It is absolutely mind boggling (Pathetic) that this is allowed to happen in this communist, oops sorry, I meant non-communist country, what the hell is going on??

Each person that reads this blog is less of a sheep! This is the only way to defeat these morons.

#119 SJF in 312 on 09.15.17 at 10:21 pm

Here’s a company that charges a flat fee. Say goodbye to the 6% commission.

http://a.msn.com/00/en-us/AArYGqY?ocid=se

#120 juno on 09.15.17 at 10:23 pm

CREA wants to sell realestate.

They formula they use is fear
1) omg foriegners are buying everything
2) omg price out forever its always goes up never goes down
3) omg great investment, returns of 10000000000% can’t lose
4) prices are up 1% from last year, and up from a month ago….. if certain areas(in fine miniature print)
5) OMG everyone wants to move here

I contracted and liver in HK, Singapore, TO, and all over the USA.
Canada is not special, its just another place to live. Coming back from Singapore to hear, the night life is deadsville. Remember the city of Singapore has almost as much people living there as the whole of Canada.

Also note, you cannot get rich in Canada, too much taxes

#121 Mattl on 09.15.17 at 10:24 pm

#7 I don’t know where you were looking or how the property was priced but my relative had 74 people through his Langley sfh last weekend and sold first day of offer – day 4 of listing – for full ask no subjects. Over 1mm for a 40yo home on 6k sqft. I sold in late July deep in the Valley in 7 days for over ask.

Anything under 1.5 priced properly sells right away in the LM. Guys asking way too much stay on the market yes, but this has always been true of RE. You can’t ask any price, even in a hot market. The Langley home you mention is overpriced if it hasn’t sold. Don’t believe me offer them a 2014 comp price and see how you do.

#122 Hmm. on 09.15.17 at 10:25 pm

I bet realtor was used before they trademarked it.
Kind of how “you’re fired” was also used before Donald.

Anyway, I appreciate your balls

#123 juno on 09.15.17 at 10:25 pm

You cannot brainwash the masses, if the truth is the opposite of your lies.

That is why CREA wants in oppress rule news.

#124 Yesss!!! on 09.15.17 at 10:26 pm

Garth, after this blog post tonight – I can honestly say you’re a personal hero of mine. You expose the truth, and stand up for what you believe in.

You’re an inspiration to us all. Thanks GT.

#125 I believe everything on television on 09.15.17 at 10:30 pm

the blog is degenerating into hate speech,
people, you can’t talk someone into buying a house
people buy houses

#126 Tremblant110 on 09.15.17 at 10:35 pm

Keep up the good work.

#127 Bob Loblaw on 09.15.17 at 10:37 pm

Of course, if the Realtors and the RE boards actually released accurate, timely, and relevant data, we wouldn’t have people analysing the sales data themselves to find the real truth.

The real estate industry in the country trully is a disgrace. I have personally dealt with over a dozen realtors over the last 20 years and each experience always left me amazed how useless they really are. Maybe the should suffer a 1,000 years of horrible financial pain

#128 waiting on the westcoast on 09.15.17 at 10:38 pm

#102 Dobermanduke on 09.15.17 at 9:23 pm says… “I’ll chip in as well

Realtor
realtor
realtor
Multiple listing service
Multiple listing service
Multiple listing service”

Don’t forget to click your heels together 3 times…

#129 BillyBob on 09.15.17 at 10:39 pm

#11 Danny on 09.15.17 at 6:12 pm
Thanks for exposing the bully tactics of the Real Estate Cartel….that the more I understand it …..does not reflect investment information in a democratic country….but more like a oligarchy country.

====================================

Canada is absolutely an oligarchy. Was founded by a few wealthy robber-baron-type families and continues to be run by them. Don’t kid yourself. Names like Thomson, Irving, Weston, Asper, etc..the real estate cartel is only one of many.

It’s sad when I see good, hardworking folks earnestly trying to “choose” which government-protected-or-over-regulated duopoly/monopoly they’ll give their money to in a fake, utterly controlled marketplace. “Ooh, ooh! Should I fly on Air Canada for $799 to Toronto or WestJet for $795? Should I pick Telus’ monthly bundle for $149.95 or Bell for $148.95? Or should I bank with RBC and pay 20 bucks a month or BOM and pay 18?” lol That’s even if there’s even a limp effort made to pretend to offer a choice. Sometimes that’s removed entirely, like car insurance in BC, SK, MB. Pay up, comrades!

The real estate cartel’s strong-arm tactics to avoid natural price discovery at all costs, is but one classic indicator of a banana republic dressed up as a democracy.

Another one being changing laws on a whim to stoke class warfare for political expedience.

Like it was taken from a textbook of some tinpot dictator. Except of course, Canada’s Dear Leader has better branding.

#130 Long-Time Lurker on 09.15.17 at 10:42 pm

I looked at Shafquat’s website. He made pictures for the following. It’s all pretty innocent. It makes me wonder why TREB sic’ed a law firm on him.

Toronto Housing Bubble
The Canadian 2015 Election
NBA Salary Tracking Website
Canadian Population Trends
Airport Routes
Transit Stations in the GTHA
Andalucia Trip
Parking Tickets in Toronto

It’s obvious that TREB has skeletons in the closet that it wants to hide. Shafquat, if you want to turn the tables on TREB then publicize what they did to you. TREB’s data may be copyrighted but they can’t copyright what they did to you. Cockroaches run from the light.

(YouTube with a little helpful link from The Greater Fool should give you a couple thousand views. Perhaps, Jess can tell us if this incident is worthy of international media attention? I’m still wondering who Jess is.)

#131 YVRTechGuy on 09.15.17 at 10:44 pm

These frivolous threatening-letter-writing schmucks are always amusing.

When you REALLY (R) get sued, the first thing you know about it is when you get a letter from the court with a summons.

#132 waiting on the westcoast on 09.15.17 at 10:46 pm

It would be great to be able to get all info like you have in the US. It is great to go onto Zillow and see price history, sales info, tax info, comparables within zip, etc.

Ironically – Uruguay doesn’t even have something like the MLS. Literally, multiple agents can represent the same property (no exclusivity) and there is no centralized place to search listings, etc. You find them either by drive by, visiting a local office (that has their firms listings), or using mercadolibre (kind of a ebay/craigslist in Latin America).

So maybe we should just be good Canadians and toe the line…

#133 Howard on 09.15.17 at 10:49 pm

Did realtors endeavour to be the scum of the earth or does it just come naturally to them?

Let’s direct the vitriol at realtor organizations rather than individuals. — Garth

#134 For those about to flop... on 09.15.17 at 10:51 pm

Pink Lemonade in West Vancouver.

This case was in my Possible Pinkies folder and after taking the best part of half a million off the price is ready to debutant as Pink Lemonade.

This house is one of 6 cases I have in Mathers Avenue making it one of the top speculators nightmares in Greater Vancouver.

They still have some will room on the price but with the other five cases and another handful of houses that I have seen reduced in the same same street that weren’t recent purchases anyone that likes that particular area can feel free to offer well below ask and see if anyone is desperate enough yet.

One of them just gave up selling and removed it when they realized 3 million dollars for a ninety year house was so Spring 2016…

M43BC

1165 MATHERS AVE WEST VANCOUVER paid 2.93

Mar 9:$3,760,000
Sep 14: $3,280,000
Change: – 480000 13%

https://www.zolo.ca/west-vancouver-real-estate/1165-mathers-avenue

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAyOUJaTA==

#135 Hey TREB on 09.15.17 at 10:53 pm

Realtor!!!

#136 People are strange on 09.15.17 at 10:54 pm

Check out Zillo in the USA. You can get the complete sales history of the property you want to purchase. It’s all on the table, as it should be.
Why are our great Canadian real estate crooks hiding information that should be known to everyone? People think the US is corrupt? Look in the mirror. We should learn from our friends south of the border. They at least get the truth. We have a secret society ie MLS that wants to shield all this info so they can try and manipulate the general public. This must stop! CROOKS!

#137 JWD on 09.15.17 at 10:57 pm

This is what makes this blog so compelling, so great.
Kudos Garth.

As to why we don’t have a zillow equivalent north of the 49th in 2017 is unbelievable. Most of the RE industry in Canada is smoke and mirrors. Change is long overdue.

#138 For those about to flop... on 09.15.17 at 11:03 pm

See here is another one in the same street, just did a sizeable reduction as well.

Could be owned by the the same group of people and decided to get serious on their property portfolio…

M43BC

2292 MATHERS AVE WEST VANCOUVER paid 4.7 ass 5.16

Jun 28:$5,488,000
Sep 14: $5,188,000
Change: – 300000.00 -5%

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=2292%20Mathers%20Avenue,%20West%20Vancouver&filter=1

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAyOTNNOQ==

#139 Rook on 09.15.17 at 11:03 pm

Best read of the month. Thanks for that.

#140 ben on 09.15.17 at 11:07 pm

Anyone know of any price history sites for Montreal?

William Shakespeare’s Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, Scene 2

#141 Fortune500 on 09.15.17 at 11:08 pm

That last sentence made me laugh so hard ha ha. What’s with the current trend of demanding respect amongst groups in Canada (realtors included). You can’t legislate respect. Respect is something you earn.

#142 For those about to flop... on 09.15.17 at 11:23 pm

Pink Lemonade in Delta.

Here is another former Possible Pinkie making its way down the conveyor belt…

M43BC

163 ENGLISH BLUFF RD DELTA paid 1.84

May 2:$2,450,000
Sep 14: $2,098,800

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=163%20English%20Bluff%20Road,%20Delta&filter=1

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDA1VkxHOA==

#143 Crucialbit on 09.15.17 at 11:24 pm

If you want the data just use the Internet wayback machine: https://archive.org/web/ and put in the address to Shafquat’s website. It won’t take much to find the .xls spreadsheet with all the data to download :) Remember, everything is permanent on the internet… at least for a few decades.

#144 Ace Goodheart on 09.15.17 at 11:26 pm

Can’t see TREB winning this appeal but we’ll see I guess.

We might need the equivalent of securities regulations for the sale of houses.

Imagine if a stock had no prospectus, was auctioned blindly to the highest bidder and there was no way of knowing what it most recently sold for?

Securities markets could not function.

That is how they were selling houses. No price history. No home inspection. You were not allowed to know what others were bidding.

Ontario’s real estate sales system is a crooked game that needs straightening out.

There’s no reason for all the secrecy and lack of transparency either.

It’s hard work to sell a house. All the showings, dealing with other realtors, negotiations. No one wants to do that themselves. So we’ll always need realtors any way.

They don’t need to make the market into an uninformed blind auction to keep their jobs. No one wants their jobs….

#145 Calamity Jane on 09.15.17 at 11:31 pm

A question for those more legally minded, how can real estate boards claim ownership of the data pertaining house sales? If I buy or sell a home, wouldn’t that information belong to me? At what point does information relating to my transaction become their property? Is there a part of the transaction where I sign off to release the information regarding my house sale publicly so the real estate agents are allowed to use it to provide other buyers with neighbourhood comps? Also does the claiming of ownership of the data and restricting access and use by other parties not come with massive regulations how it can be presented? How can they claim ownership (and imply value) while at the same time accepting no responsibility for accuracy and/or liability as a result of decisions made based on that info?

ps – Snoopy you rock. Realtor Realtor Realtor. To quote South Park re that other cult of idiots “Go ahead sue me”

#146 Jim on 09.15.17 at 11:32 pm

Hunting for a new USA house right now on Reddit and Zillow. I’d never out up with the lack of info in Canada. Tricks like pulling and delisting homes at lower prices dont work here.

Markets need to be transparent to operate properly. Imagine the stock or bond market without price histories.

The pipeda claim is grasping at straws. In fact it fails one of the basic requirements of showing that his work falls under the statute in the first place. He isnt operating a commercial enterprise of any sort, let alone one that collects personal information in a way that is sufficiently related to earning revenue. Unless things have changed radically since I moved to the USA it is dead in the water. This from a former lawyer who read a lot of decisions from the federal commissioner.

#147 Jim on 09.15.17 at 11:35 pm

#144

CORRECT. It is not a market if there is no transparency

To use the term market to describe Canadian housing is like using the term villa to describe an outhouse. Yes both have walls but that is all.

#148 Not a realtor on 09.15.17 at 11:43 pm

Strong finish to the week, Garth. Keep it up.

#149 @Snoopy (#69) & Elle (#71) on 09.15.17 at 11:43 pm

@ 69 Snoopy & @ 71 Elle

Elle, your comment that TREB may actually be the violator of PIPEDA is actually a very interesting thought experiment.

Thousands of nurses and doctors work with data protected under PIPEDA all day long, yet nothing escapes into the public domain (unless something very illegal is occurring).

Yet these Realtor bums claim this housing data falls under the same protection as your medical files? They sure don’t treat it as such! This data can be view at your local Registry office by ANYONE any day of the week! I can’t walk into a hospital and ask to see someone’s medical chart – not going to happen!

Someone diligent enough can copy and track almost all changes with regards to a home listing and sale on the free/public MLS and then fill in any gaps at the local Registry offices. But if you spend all day watching the people walking into and out of the hospital, you will still be none the wiser as to what may be in their medical file.

I’ve spent good money in commissions over the years buying and selling homes, and now these Realtor bums are telling me they own that data? Those [email protected] didn’t pay me for that data! I paid them!

Like Elle said – they want it both ways. They want to treat your home data fast and loose to promote sales and promote the MLS….yet they want the general public to treat their data like medical files??? Dirty [email protected] should be thrown out of court for their ignorant audacity.

#150 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.15.17 at 11:52 pm

Shafquat Arefeen should have hosted his website in a place like Liechtenstein or Sealand, they will just thumb their noses at Canadian court orders. He should have also established with his website host a sort of ‘dead-man’s-switch’ (I can’t remember the legal name for it now at this late hour), whereby the hosting site won’t remove anything, even at his request, if they suspect that he is making the request under duress.

#151 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 09.16.17 at 12:00 am

#104 Wishful Thinking

Your two examples is why we need to write to government to get some regulations and oversight. These SHYSTERS® will argue or outright refuse to represent your interests. A couple of times I also pointed out certain facts on so call comparables. There are so many variables to houses , finishes , size, potentional problems, etc that its not always possible to have so called comparables. They are such shady SHYSTERS® it makes me sick.

#152 Guillaume on 09.16.17 at 12:07 am

# 57 Ian
Have you ever seen a plane with a trailer ? Neither have I heard or seen anything about bears living in pack… You must be a Toronto dude…
I all agree on the rest of your post !

M46BC

#153 conan on 09.16.17 at 12:10 am

#38 Last…but not leased on 09.15.17 at 6:56 pm

“…..but the point is do they have the legal right to make such threats..ie is their information proprietary?”

There might be a limited element of the MLS “idea thing” that has strong copyright.
Everything else, like these letters that they mail out, is horse poo.

They do this ,not to win in court, but to protect/ buffer-zone/ put a wall around, the element of MLS that has great value.

#154 downdownrealturds on 09.16.17 at 12:24 am

DELETED

#155 oncebittwiceshy on 09.16.17 at 12:25 am

MattI: “Anything under 1.5 priced properly sells right away in the LM.”

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Well, buds, you and your relatives are genius at timing this market because 7) is right. My brother is trying to sell in Langley right now and he is well under $1,000,000. I won't show you his house because he does get on here occasionally but this is extremely close.

Oh, by the way, if you go onto the realtor.ca site you can find over 200 single family homes under $600,000 between Surrey and Chilliwack.

That 40yr. old home on a 6000 sq.ft. lot that you speak of just won the lottery.

4858 207A STREET, Langley, British Columbia V3A6V9

$678,000
MLS® Number: R2188883
Bathrooms 2 Bedrooms 3
Property Type: Single Family
Building Type: House
Storeys 1
Title Freehold
Land Size 6000 sqft
Built in 1978
Parking Type Garage

#156 Flatlander on 09.16.17 at 12:35 am

Shaf, Garth, and Happy Housing Crash dude. The ultimate dream team.

#157 oncebittwiceshy on 09.16.17 at 12:37 am

…. or you could just go onto “for sale by owner” and save yourself $400,000 in Murrayville which you would recognize as a good area of Langley.

19 yr. old home and 9000 sq.ft. lot.

$639,900

21641- 45 Avenue
Langley, BC

Style House Bedrooms 3
Age 19 Bathrooms 2
Lot Size 50ft x 180ft SQ FT. 2135

Upper Murrayville is the location of this beautiful well maintained 2- Level home in a quiet double cul-de-sac. This family residence with a den downstairs and 3 large bedrooms upstairs including master bedroom, ensuite with huge soaker tub, walk-in closet and a separate vanity area for the lady of the home. Formal living and dining room has a large gas fireplace. Bright family room leads out onto a large deck with a covered built-in BBQ area. The kitchen features oak cabinets and a walk-in pantry. New appliances included. This Upper Murrayville lot is one of the largest at 9,240 square feet. The garden features a large manicured lawn with mature hedges, large trees, shrubs and a stone patio to catch the mid-day sun. There is a 260 square foot work shop wired for 220V, garden shed, and a relaxing TV/ Games room. This private Murrayville setting is a must see. Realtor friendly. Pls call Shaun or Debbie at 604-532-3113 or 604-375-4779 for your personal appointment.

#158 Love My Kia on 09.16.17 at 12:39 am

This librarian swore to never post on this site again due to snide arrogant rebuttal on comments made and misogynist posters that are allowed to contravene blog rules.

That being said I am only back here to remind you all of our Charter Rights to Freedom of Expression (thanks to JT’s dad) that gives us all the right to express dissenting opinions that are unpopular.

This cease and desist shit is nothing but a scare tactic with no teeth in law. Keep on doing what you do, anti-REELTORS!

https://ccla.org/focus-areas/fundamental-freedoms/freedom-of-expression-2/

#159 Questions on 09.16.17 at 12:50 am

I’m sure someone else may have said so already. Why don’t you post this data? You have what it takes.

#160 Love My Kia on 09.16.17 at 1:08 am

Bloggers, use the censorship tracker to report instances of censorship.

Canadian Civil Liberties Association website:
https://censorshiptracker.crowdmap.com/

#161 Entrepreneur on 09.16.17 at 1:08 am

Count me in! Let us correct what is definitely wrong.

Also, agree with #136 and #137 that Canada should have a Zillo where buyers can be more informed with the release of data.

#162 Freebird on 09.16.17 at 1:16 am

Control the narrative; control the message; controls the brand/image. Especially to the general mass public.

Basic marketing/ PR.

#163 Love My Kia on 09.16.17 at 1:25 am

all you naysayers can send Kathleen Wynne a thank you note for passing SLAPP prevention legislation,

https://news.ontario.ca/mag/en/2015/10/ontario-passes-law-to-protect-freedom-of-expression.html

You’re welcome. Kathleen Wynne

#164 Arun on 09.16.17 at 1:26 am

Mate, Set up a go fund me page…happy to contribute 50 Australian Dollars….reasonably confident you can get enough donation for a cause like this. Garth please share the link if he decides to setup a fund me page.

thanks
From land down under.

#165 Smoking Man on 09.16.17 at 1:32 am

Blog Dog meet up next weekend. CRA I will be showing up with zero in my bank account. A loaded ford escape purchased on an RBC Avion Card and the bill is due right about that time.

CRA sorry my late tax payment on the 15th due today, well it went into a slot, machine. Don’t worry I’ll call the 1-800 number tomorrow and give you a sad story hoping you have some compassion, If not we will all know liberals are thieves.

My destiny, In a prison with three meals a day and I don’t need to do shit to eat.

#166 The Awakened One on 09.16.17 at 1:41 am

Man, I can’t believe this sh*t happening here.. I thought we have free speech? No??

This feels like Commie threat tactics! Shall they come & take yo away in the midst of the night, blind-folded, gagged & chained, same fate for the fully-fed, friendly, fluffy & fixed Bandit… both herded into unmarked Soviet-made truck, then be thrown naked, butt-first into a deep dark pit of hungry cats, guarded above by charlie , without a return-home date?

I feel so like home here again… in old Nam!

#167 Rentin on 09.16.17 at 1:47 am

The SFH market in Langley, BC from 1.5-3M is dead. You can’t borrow your way into this territory anyways unless you have a sizeable down payment. So people with 1-2M cash for this type of purchase are smarter than the people who are still fighting for 600K condos.

There are a lot SFH properties that have been sold once or twice in the last 2 years, with ever escalating prices that are now on the market. Usually with an ask of a cool 1M above the last sell price.

I think with a 20 year investment horizon, a home makes sense to purchase. However, if you “missed” getting in prior to 2010 or so, it really wouldn’t hurt to wait for a deal; they will be coming.

As far as Realtors go, most don’t know very much at all. But for the masses of people that sign up for a 600K particle board shack, without doing any research at all on housing costs, land value etc; they are siting ducks for developers aided by realtors. So I think the blame lies in the consumer.

Sometimes the best time to reflect on the problem is by looking in the mirror. We are a victim of our own doing. The realtors are just vultures gorging themselves on the scraps (3%) leftover from runaway prices.

#168 Kathleen Wynne on 09.16.17 at 1:55 am

No need for lawyering up, I have made sure bloggers rights to free expression in the public interest are protected from such frivilous libel suits. It saves us money and protects you.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/S15023

You’re welcome.
Kathleen Wynne, SJW, cost saver.

#169 Dave on 09.16.17 at 2:06 am

Good post Garth. Thanks for giving us a break on going on and on about new tax rules for incorporated dudes. Started to sound like a broken record…. don’t worry, they’ll survive.

#170 Spectacle on 09.16.17 at 2:12 am

Ok, so Regarding posting::

” Snoopy on 09.15.17 at 7:49 pm
Garth, you have my email and can look me up (I assume you won’t publish name on the blog). Anyway, leading copyright/IP lawyer at leading firm. Happy to work for you or this other gent for basically free (pay the court filing fees and photocopy costs) to defend against this nonsense. Keep in touch. Snoopy.

This could get interesting. — Garth. ”
———————
This is just the beginning. If this plays out as legit, I see at least 2 things arising::
1) Garth gets daily hit rates of 100,000 per day, and huge new client growth, and

2). This legal pro bono work brings massive business to this ( Angel, awesome dude?) and his legal business.

Remember, the CREA asked for this. Only just beginning.
I see Australian media interviews, China, US all piecing story together here.

KEY Point :: Wonder if they do Small Biz Tax Law? Where can I get an “I Love Snoopy & Garth T-Shirt! : )

#171 Myra Andrews on 09.16.17 at 2:15 am

The sell to list percentage in Vancouver were pretty average in August so didn’t post any numbers. But September is interesting.

This data is for both Real Estate boards-GVRD and Fraser Valley. Not looking good.

Date New Sold %
15-Sep 305 167 54.8
14-Sep 385 269 69.9
13-Sep 434 251 57.8
12-Sep 465 191 41.1
11-Sep 561 273 48.7
08-Sep 341 158 46.3
07-Sep 392 139 35.5
06-Sep 466 188 40.3
Total 3349 1636 49.3 Average

#172 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 09.16.17 at 2:38 am

Realtards, realtards, realtards…….feel the burn TREB…..you suck

#173 Meep on 09.16.17 at 2:39 am

Who gonna manage portfolios if you get thrown in the clink for this awful crime. I’d get OJ Simpsons old lawyer to defend you

#174 Chelsea on 09.16.17 at 2:57 am

Any one know the status of the 2% absentee speculation tax/levy the BC NDP’s are proposing. It was their #1 priority to clean up this Real Estate nightmare here. Since emailing them, nothing concrete has been done or mentioned since they have come into power. We live in scary times … Especially now the NDP are back …..

#175 Bungalow Cher on 09.16.17 at 3:07 am

I was born in the Audi of a travelin’ show
My realtor®mama used to dance for the mortage they’d borrow
Papa would do whatever he could
Preach a little town house
Sell a couple town houses of doctored wood

[Chorus:]
Realtor®s, tramps and thieves
We’d hear it from the blog dogs of the town
They’d call us realtor®s, tramps and thieves
But every night all the spekky moisters would come around
And lay their money down

Picked up a realtor® just south of Old Weston Road
Gave him a ride, wowed him with 5% down
I was a debt-a-tennial, he was sentry twenty-one
Rode with us to Greektown
And papa poured a shot for him when he knew what he’d done

[Chorus:]
Realtor®s, tramps and thieves
We’d hear it from the people of the town
They’d call us realtor®s, tramps and thieves
But every night all the Bank of Mom’s would come around
And lay their money down

Never had too much schoolin’ but he taught me well
With his smooth Woodbine style
Three months later, I’m a homeowner in trouble
And I haven’t seen him for a while, oh
I haven’t seen him for a while, oh

She was born in the Audi of a travelin’ show
Her realtor® mama had to dance for the money they’d throw
Grandpa’d do whatever he could
Preach some frankengospel
Sell a couple bungalows of doctored wood

#176 Karma on 09.16.17 at 3:19 am

Another example of a shady SHYSTER®

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/evidence-against-west-vancouver-realtor-contradictory-his-lawyer-argues

#177 Karma on 09.16.17 at 3:19 am

Holy smokes. Mainstream Media picking up bearish RE.

http://vancouversun.com/real-estate/home-sales-expected-to-fall-5-3-in-2017-10-in-ont-and-b-c-crea-2/wcm/d5cf0574-5c99-4c24-b92d-d738f53845ac

#178 Dolce Vita on 09.16.17 at 3:24 am

How flush can TREBs financials and membership be to litigate in light of recent market events?

I like the crowd funding idea, count me in for $50 to help defend Shafquat. We’ll see if TREB willing to take on Garth’s well healed and professionally replete readership.

Great article Garth. You sure know to fire up your devotees.

#179 Karma on 09.16.17 at 3:52 am

#120 juno on 09.15.17 at 10:23 pm
“Remember the city of Singapore has almost as much people living there as the whole of Canada.”

Ummm… no. The GTA has more people than Singapore.

#180 Karma on 09.16.17 at 3:55 am

#125 I believe everything on television on 09.15.17 at 10:30 pm
“the blog is degenerating into hate speech,
people, you can’t talk someone into buying a house
people buy houses”

But you can persuade them to pay more than is warranted. And that happening en masse is what gives you irrational prices.

#181 Fed-up on 09.16.17 at 3:55 am

#133 Howard on 09.15.17 at 10:49 pm
Did realtors endeavour to be the scum of the earth or does it just come naturally to them?

Let’s direct the vitriol at realtor organizations rather than individuals. — Garth

Sorry Garth, guilty by association.

#182 Gravy Train on 09.16.17 at 6:02 am

#140 ben on 09.15.17 at 11:07 pm

“William Shakespeare’s Henry VI, Part 2, Act IV, Scene 2”

Are you referring to Dick the Butcher and what he thinks we should do to all the lawyers?

#183 Soost on 09.16.17 at 7:07 am

The lack of a timely ruling on TREB/Competition really indicates a lack of transparency in the process. I find it really concerning.

#184 I'm stupid on 09.16.17 at 7:12 am

How can Treb expect to be able to prevent data from being seen by the public? The music industry tried to stop music from being downloaded and lost.

Mongohouse.com if you want sold prices. I know of at least 20 more sites to get the info and every time one goes down 10 go up so good luck with that Treb.

#185 Nick on 09.16.17 at 7:32 am

As much as I dislike REAL ESTATE AGENTS, they have a legit case. REALTOR(R) is a trademark, not a word in the English language (despite it being now defined in several dictionaries). Similarly MLS(R) is a legit trademark. This is why they pushed so hard to change the public nomenclature from “real estate agent” and “multiple listing service”.

You cannot trademark an already existing word or common name. Additionally, I suspect this is why they insist on using all caps because some trademarks also define style.

They must actively protect their trademarks. If they do not then then can lose them.

Not sure what all the drama is about. Just use it like they “want” you too and stop being so whiny that someone is protecting their IP. They are possibly within their rights to refuse you using it all together. Again; these are both LEGIT registered trademarks. If you don’t like respecting intellectual property laws, move to China.

Alternatively, call them by what they are: salespeople.

#186 Ian on 09.16.17 at 7:54 am

Blog dog meeting next Sat noon at Belfountain!! Who is in?!?

#187 Arctic Gringo: Qalunaaq on 09.16.17 at 8:02 am

MSM still catering to the commission people organization…

https://screenshots.firefox.com/hbvy5QMqCHnwtNJX/www.cbc.ca

#188 Ian on 09.16.17 at 8:09 am

#152 Guillaume

Haha you’re right, I am pretty urban. But sure bears move in a pack! Look at these great pics I found:

https://goo.gl/images/Ub3kdG

Plus, it has a great ring to it!

M48ON

#189 maxx on 09.16.17 at 8:11 am

#23 Rainclouds on 09.15.17 at 6:30 pm

“Do those imbeciles have ANY idea how much they are loathed, scorned, laughed at, dismissed as useless scum. Hint: (you are below tow truck drivers and used car sales……even politicians have a few people who like them)”

The lure of maximum commissions by almost any means eclipses the nearly universal abhorrence of this so-called “profession”.

An idiot realturd once told us that receiving a commission cheque was like a major drug hit….and what do addicts do for their next hit? Anything!

The only time I see it changing is if this economy destroying, bull$hit-the-consumer free-for-all were to become an election issue. It always seems that tptb need to be forced (usually through public embarrassment) into doing anything remedial if it involves the spin of cash.

I find it beyond belief that tptb allow this fiscal battery to happen, let alone continue to ruin its citizens.

#190 Ian on 09.16.17 at 8:16 am

Who said Singapore has more people than Canada?!

Did Smoking Man have a meetup last night we didn’t know about?!

5.6 mln

M48ON

#191 Dharma Bum on 09.16.17 at 9:01 am

#42 Happy Housing Crash Everyone!”

“You are 100% right. Please you dirty SHYSTERS I will use SHYSTERS®. I don’t want to face legal action from the SHYSTERS® organization. Once again sorry SHYSTERS® if I offended you in any way.”
——————————————————————-

We hereby request that you immediately cease and desist from using the trademarked logo that is copyrighted by the Canadian Bar Association. SHYSTERS® is a legal trademark that may only be used by the real dirty filthy scumbag low-lifes officially known to be Shysters, AKA, the shyster members of the shyster legal profession. While they are all filthy shysters, the real shysters, unlike the the regular dirty shysters, are well educated and trained. SO if you don’t stop, the real SHYSTERS® will come after you like they are coming after Garth and that Shaq dude.
Beware of shysters everywhere!

#192 Dharma Bum on 09.16.17 at 9:06 am

We need Agent Pena of the DEA to come to Ontario and break up this corrupt cartel known as the TREB Cartel.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/narcos/

#193 NoName on 09.16.17 at 9:18 am

so basicly what comes in a news is what canadians are googelong, couple of weeks re demise, debt now, i wonder whats next search qwerty…

https://imgur.com/a/ddd24

#194 NoName on 09.16.17 at 9:55 am

#149 @Snoopy (#69) & Elle (#71) on 09.15.17 at 11:43 pm
@ 69 Snoopy & @ 71 Elle

Elle, your comment that TREB may actually be the violator of PIPEDA is actually a very interesting thought experiment.

Thousands of nurses and doctors work with data protected under PIPEDA all day long, yet nothing escapes into the public domain (unless something very illegal is occurring).

Yet these Realtor bums claim this housing data falls under the same protection as your medical files? They sure don’t treat it as such! This data can be view at your local Registry office by ANYONE any day of the week! I can’t walk into a hospital and ask to see someone’s medical chart – not going to happen!

Someone diligent enough can copy and track almost all changes with regards to a home listing and sale on the free/public MLS and then fill in any gaps at the local Registry offices. But if you spend all day watching the people walking into and out of the hospital, you will still be none the wiser as to what may be in their medical file.

I’ve spent good money in commissions over the years buying and selling homes, and now these Realtor bums are telling me they own that data? Those [email protected] didn’t pay me for that data! I paid them!

Like Elle said – they want it both ways. They want to treat your home data fast and loose to promote sales and promote the MLS….yet they want the general public to treat their data like medical files??? Dirty [email protected] should be thrown out of court for their ignorant audacity.

—-

now that nurses were mentioned, i was thinking of posting this other day during .inc posts days, but for some reason did not. only thing between you and tyranny of any kind is nurse now days. watch both videos

1st video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU_RjebYDis

2dn video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0FqEoP9ohI

#195 cto on 09.16.17 at 9:59 am

Class Action Lawsuit!!!
That sounds like something a lot of people would like to take part in around these parts!!!

#196 Einsatzgruppen B Artur Nebe on 09.16.17 at 10:26 am

Didn’t you know our CREA girl = Ravensbruck Aufseherninnen?

#197 For those about to flop... on 09.16.17 at 10:44 am

This guy is still selling some of the cheaper options in Vancouver.

Three sales in the last few weeks continues the recent trend of his sales going at ask or below,whereas during the Spring Fling some people paid well over ask.

Give this guy some credit ,he puts the sale price up on his website win ,lose or draw as soon as the ink is dry.

Just the way it should be…

M43BC

http://normflockhart.com/listings/sales.aspx

#198 Dissident on 09.16.17 at 10:50 am

Lol, the sass in this post! :D “realtor, realtor, realtor” Me-ow!

I always probe the real estate agent on historical context. That’s how I sussed out the info on a house I saw 3 years ago on MLS that was being flipped this summer. Its always fun to know more than the agent thinks you do. And then get them to cough up the rest of the info.

Also, this.
Apparently asking this guy about RE commissions is a sore point.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/10/01/campaign_notebook_real_estate_board_president_blasts_journalist_over_commissions_question.html

#199 AB Boxster on 09.16.17 at 10:53 am

#158 Love My Kia on 09.16.17 at 12:39 am


That being said I am only back here to remind you all of our Charter Rights to Freedom of Expression (thanks to JT’s dad) that gives us all the right to express dissenting opinions that are unpopular.

——————————————————-

So you think that prior to the passage of the Charter that Canadians had no rights and the right to free speech did not exist?

Too Funny!

The Charter is likely the worst legislation passed in this country.

There are more restrictions on freedom of speech and rights today than there ever were, prior to the Charter being passed. The SCOC now uses this to create new laws and bizarre ‘rights’ and restrictions that were never anticipated when this was foisted on an unsuspecting electorate.

Thanks to JT’s daddy.

#200 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 09.16.17 at 11:04 am

#191 Dharma Bum

BaHahaha. I spite my coffee out. Funny

#201 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 09.16.17 at 11:05 am

Some suggested a Go Fund me? I’m willing to put my money towards fighting what I hate.

#202 Ian on 09.16.17 at 11:06 am

#158
#199

Couldn’t agree with you more AB!

We need the smartest legal minds in the country to figure out how to get the Supreme Court out of politics.

Thanks to the Charter, they have turned into an activist, corrupt body that keeps interfering in politics which they have no place in. Trudeau 1’s Charter has made sure we took a parliamentary system that worked perfectly for centuries and ruined it.

Diefenbaker’s Bill of Rights 1960 should have been left alone.

M48ON

#203 TurnerNation on 09.16.17 at 11:09 am

Smoking man the reason it’s named Periscope…they literally are deep underground with their technology. You are the view.

Sentient A.I. knows more about me than I do.
The camera staring at me as I write on my phone analyzes every reaction and eye movement.

#204 mousey on 09.16.17 at 11:25 am

You do have access to sold prices at least in BC, although this is delayed, and then only for the last three years. This info is available on the BC Assessment site, e-value bc. My question is that if you can have this information from the government, albeit delayed, why can’t somebody give the info to me in real time?
Update: had the round table meeting with the Lib MP regarding the corporate tax changes. After assuring us that the meeting wasn’t a directed farce coming after the Kelowna meeting, the MP frankly admitted he wasn’t sure what the real impacts would be. The attendees, all small business people, with the exception of a former government worker(maybe a plant), gave the MP a real earful. We assured him that if he put an ad in the local paper for a town hall, as opposed to an invite only meeting, the place would burst at the rafters with pissed off small business people. Their was a stenographer present and we were assured that our concerns would be communicated to his bosses back in Ottawa. If you haven’t written to your MP or communicated your concerns yet, I urge you to do so.

#205 Guy in Calgary on 09.16.17 at 11:26 am

#14 Vanrentor

You are 100% right. Please you dirty SHYSTERS I will use SHYSTERS®. I don’t want to face legal action from the SHYSTERS® organization. Once again sorry SHYSTERS® if I offended you in any way.”

I do not know why I love this comment so much lol.

#206 CHERRY BLOSSOM on 09.16.17 at 11:32 am

DELETED

#207 Tbone on 09.16.17 at 11:34 am

Why don’t you sell your house yourself if you dislike Realtors .
I did it twice myself on some rental properties .
Last time I used comfree . I cooperated with a real estate agent who brought me a customer and negotiated the rate.She was less than useless I have to admit , but I got a 7 figure payday , she got a commission and a builder overpaid for my house . See how that works,everybody screws everybody . Win win win .
.

#208 HaHaHa on 09.16.17 at 11:41 am

Charter Rights to Freedom of Expression…where does this exist? An individual cannot dislike any idea or person albeit it being a hate crime. Oh unless they are a tax paying, God fearing, white male. Its all our fault. Bring on the hate.

#209 conan on 09.16.17 at 12:10 pm

#206 Tbone on 09.16.17 at 11:34 am

“I cooperated with a real estate agent who brought me a customer and negotiated the rate.She was less than useless….”

Buyers do not grow on trees. She was useful.

#210 Dissident on 09.16.17 at 12:11 pm

According to this article, Shaf used “publicly available data”. So why the heck is he being legally pursued? Because he took a moment to analyze it for (unfavourable) insights??? I don’t get it.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2017/09/13/toronto-real-estate-board-shuts-down-local-man-s-data-project.html

#211 Fish on 09.16.17 at 12:37 pm

#115 Ronaldo on 09.15.17 at 10:08 pm
An example of a top notch RealTor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T5iBqPM4tE

Wow,good one, it sums it up, exactly!!!!! ‘

#212 cd on 09.16.17 at 12:51 pm

Just wondering…

If I made a real estate tracking website and used totally different wording (say onions for houses) would I get in trouble?

#213 NEVER GIVE UP on 09.16.17 at 12:52 pm

The CREA’s equivalent in the food world would be Food labels with no ingredients list.

#214 NEVER GIVE UP on 09.16.17 at 12:58 pm

The CREA and associated boards are actually a national risk to financial security of our nation.

I cringe to think of all the people who signed a purchase agreement and have been shafted out of 1, 2 or$300,000.00. of their future income and savings because of the ignorance caused by the CREA. Criminals.

#215 D C on 09.16.17 at 12:59 pm

Oh Garth, I have not agreed with you on the taxation campaign of the last few weeks. But I totally do on this issue. The stranglehold on information related to purchases held by real estate agents and currently supported by our government (by failing to protect consumers) must end. We have more rights with $25 Loblaw gift cards not expiring than with information about a 6-7 figure purchase.

#11 Danny on 09.15.17 at 6:12 pm
I agree with letter writing campaign. This is a travestry that must stop. Otherwise I believe people duped by false information have grounds for some kind of class action against both real estate agents and the government for not protecting investors

#39 Lesley on 09.15.17 at 6:57 pm
Agree, but with caveat below. Titles can be protected by law (ie people don’t just get to call themselves physiotherapists, lawyers, etc. without having the proper licensing/credentials. This protects the integrity of the title and the public’s belief that seeing someone with that title signifies legitimate skill/knowledge. It surely doesn’t preclude someone writing about those professions though! However…

#185 Nick on 09.16.17 at 7:32 am
Didn’t realize about trademark. You’re are correct; even the dictionary states it’s protected. They really did do a good/subtle campaign for that name change… I recall using “real estate agent” quite a while ago. Maybe we need a grass-roots campaign to reinstitute this title into more common use. Garth can actually assist with diminishing the legitimacy of the use of “realtor” by not using this term anymore?

#216 Ogopogo on 09.16.17 at 1:03 pm

Disgusting, filthy CREAtures.

That is all.

#217 Dream Police on 09.16.17 at 1:05 pm

So they want to control free speech Garth? Dream on.
Knowledge = power.
Realtors, oh did I say that, yup. Realtors are in the business of selling. Did they ever say it was about factual info?

#218 Stan Broock on 09.16.17 at 1:10 pm

It is clear that realturds are more important to the society and the economy than the doctors.

Never heard even a single statement from our elitist PM and financial minister about the need to make home sales data transparent.

It seems transparency is not important to the ruing elite.

#219 Toronto Sept Sales on 09.16.17 at 1:14 pm

https://toronto.listing.ca/detached-home-price-history.htm

Month # of Sales Avg List Price Avg Sold Price Monthly Change ($) Monthly Change
September 136 $996,500 $978,400 $83,400 9.31%
August 471 $899,900 $895,000 -$65,000 -6.77%

ohoh, So far Toronto Detached House Sept sales are 136. Not so robust. But the monthly price change is up 9% from August.

We’ll have to see what the latter half of September brings for sales / prices. Sinclair on Hot Property has been telling the audience that sales and prices will pick up in September, and he is seeing it.

I really don’t care if the average sales/prices is up or down for Toronto or the GTA. Doesn’t matter to me at all. When I research a property for a purchase, I’ll run through the numbers many times over, also checking the historical and current rents for the immediate neighbourhood. I’ll also check the schools, transit and crime stats. If anything is amiss, I’ll move onto the next property for research. In the meantime, the positive cash flow from rentals keeps increasing the amount I can use as a down payment for my next property. Getting tenants for my properties is easy. They are usually rented within 2 weeks and my tenants are always long term. Always buy in areas you would personally live at yourself. If the RE market continues to correct, no problems. Stay in your properties for the long haul. Once your mortgage(s) is paid off, you will see your net worth increase dramatically. Sure this fluctuates with the value that people put on real estate, but it doesn’t matter. Cash Flow is the most important aspect to RE investing.

Hey Happy Housing Crash guy, I’m not a shyster just because I’m pro RE investing. You should be able to accept the housing pro side of the conversation as well as the housing bear side. What is your line of work?

#220 Dolce Vita on 09.16.17 at 1:17 pm

Great posts Flop & Myra Andrews.

Keep them coming.

#221 Stan Broock on 09.16.17 at 1:19 pm

#213 NEVER GIVE UP on 09.16.17 at 12:58 pm
The CREA and associated boards are actually a national risk to financial security of our nation.

I cringe to think of all the people who signed a purchase agreement and have been shafted out of 1, 2 or$300,000.00. of their future income and savings because of the ignorance caused by the CREA. Criminals.

————————–

No no no no no…

Realtors are not criminals. They help facilitate the credit enslavement for the benefit of the banks. They are helpers.

Criminals are the small Businesses and the doctors (the finance minister repeated this many times, it is in his programs as well), they are tax cheats who do not want to pay their fair share (according to the finance minister) and who dare to complain about the lack of benefits reserved for the god chosen government workers and about the tax breaks reserved for the ruling elite’s friends on Bay street/the big Business/the oligopolies.

#222 NEVER GIVE UP on 09.16.17 at 1:25 pm

#175 Bungalow Cher on 09.16.17 at 3:07 am
I sang this song to myself and couldn’t stop laughing!

#223 Dissident on 09.16.17 at 1:36 pm

#212 cd on 09.16.17 at 12:51 pm

I like the way you think.

#224 For those about to flop... on 09.16.17 at 1:45 pm

Pink Lemonade stands in Coquitlam.

Just updating the Coquitlam segment of my folder and these three houses are still struggling to be sold despite being by Greater Vancouver standards in the affordable bracket…

M43BC

Case 1.

Paid 1.04 in Feb 2016
Ass.1.19

269 King St,Coquitlam.

May 16:$1,199,900
Sep 7: $1,159,000
Change: – 40900.00 -3%

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=269%20King%20Street,%20Coquitlam&ptype_house=1&max_price=1300000&min_price=800000&filter=1
https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAzWDhDVw==

Case 2.

Paid 1.28 in March 2016
Ass 1.28

875 Greene Street, Coquitlam

May 4:$1,488,000
Sep 7: $1,388,000
Change: – 100000.00 -7%

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=875%20Greene%20Street,%20Coquitlam&ptype_house=1&max_price=1300000&min_price=800000&filter=1

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAzWFI1VQ==

Case 3.
Paid 1.36 in May 2016
Ass 1.41
Now asking 1.44

1214 CREST CRT, COQUITLAM .

May 25:$1,498,888
Jul 4: $1,459,888

Change: – 39000.00 -3%

https://www.zolo.ca/coquitlam-real-estate/1214-crest-court

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAzWE5NMQ==

#225 For those about to flop... on 09.16.17 at 1:48 pm

51 pm
Just wondering…

If I made a real estate tracking website and used totally different wording (say onions for houses) would I get in trouble?

///////////////////////////

Hey cd ,forget onions and buy some of my Pink Lemonade instead…

M43BC

#226 Old Dog on 09.16.17 at 2:01 pm

OK, lets stop the blame game. It’s not the fault of the banks, real estate business, sales people, or news outlets for your own financial ignorance. It’s about time people took responsibility for their own actions. You’re all grown up now. When you screw up, wear it. You have to use self discipline. The world is full of people who want to sell you over priced goods and services. Use that thing keeping your ears apart to choose smart options. Learn from your mistakes. Money is not free, absolutely nothing in life is free (except maybe Garth’s advice). Some one has to pay for it. Think, be smart.

#227 Ronaldo on 09.16.17 at 2:23 pm

Inside secrets of a real estate agent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyze_lz6uDw

#228 Spoke Wrench on 09.16.17 at 2:56 pm

To top it off, REALTORS® get to INCORPORATE®

so they can keep more of what they steal.

Go and live 100% on commission and tell us how great it is. — Garth

#229 T on 09.16.17 at 3:01 pm

#90 Blacksheep on 09.15.17 at 8:44 pm

I love your realtor logic.

Let’s see if I can explain this to you.

An increase or decrease in value is not determined by the sale price being over or under the list price. The change in value is determined by what a similar house sells for today versus what similar houses sold for previously.

If you were to enter the market in spring with an average house you would have listed and sold for more than that average house would list and sell for today.

#230 Dan on 09.16.17 at 3:57 pm

fake news and criminals, the hands who built canada…

#231 2 Cents Canadian on 09.16.17 at 6:00 pm

The CREA knows their jig is up. This is their last ditch effort to keep the illusion going for a little while longer. Never in history has such a large industry been allowed to keep clients/customers in the dark, miss informed and bamboozled like the CREA. The walls are closing in and it’s all coming down. The sellers and buyers might have some power again ….. finally. They actually always had it ….. they just didn’t have the guts to exercise it.

#232 Future Expatriate on 09.16.17 at 7:59 pm

Justin Trudeau is your PM and this crap still goes on? You still don’t have a fricking Zillow for truth’s sake?

Whats wrong with this picture?

#233 Ace Goodheart on 09.16.17 at 8:02 pm

Ode to cultural sensitivity. Inspired by all the garbage I’ve been reading lately about the effects of the “foreign buyers tax” (read- anti Asia the yellow folks are coming run and protect yourselves tax).

Awhile back I decided to go non-binary. I was inspired by season 7 episode 4 of Shameless where Ian meets the incredibly cool non binary crowd and learns about self designation.

I was shocked. My whole life I figured I had to identify with race, religion, skin colour, gender.

Then the young folks said [email protected]$K it throw this sh$t back in their faces we don’t want to conform. I thought “go young soul”. While I was trying to figure out how a particle could be in more than one place at one time (Thank you Neil DeGrasse Tyson) the young hood peeps had freed my soul. Bless them (in a non binary non religious free identity way).

So I went non binary. No religion. No skin colour. No culture. No gender identification.. Yes I am still with the same girl I fell in love with 13 years ago. But that is my private emotional connection. In public I have no gender.

You would not believe how this turned out.

Suddenly I could relate to everyone. As a citizen of planet Earth, identifying as human, there was no distinction..

Pure soul. Person to person. The lady with the hijab that you wonder about? We’ll, she’s this cool person with this amazing identity that us non binary folk can just walk up and connect with.

We connect with every one. Person to person. Directly. Nothing to stop us.

It is like being the rainbow.

#234 acdel on 09.16.17 at 9:51 pm

#129 BillyBob

Excellent Post! Garth will allow it, but with agreeing with you and Garth am I now on the “LIST”, ha,ha. I love this blog!!

#235 guillaume on 09.16.17 at 11:09 pm

#182 Ian
Sorry but this is a mother with three cubs, not a pack, are you a hipster ?
Still I agree with you : tar and feather for the shysters !

#236 RobB on 09.17.17 at 10:51 am

The web is forever….. : )
https://web.archive.org/web/20171001000000*/http://www.shafquatarefeen.com/unique_mls_db.xlsx

https://web.archive.org/web/20170912175909/http://www.shafquatarefeen.com/mls

#237 Whipster1 on 09.17.17 at 11:20 am

1074851

Flop…. I was referring to the fact that ontario won’t let information out publicly but other provinces seem to have it. If all real estate transactions were publicly transparent we would be better off I believe. You do an awesome job; I feel that the realtor who had the website taken down should not have been forced to do so.

Keep up the good work I love reading it! And no. I am far from a grumpy old man with millennial grandchildren. As stated by another poster lol.

#238 Souvereigninternational on 09.17.17 at 1:01 pm

Dare i say Coca-cola. Ridiculous! Realtor has bacome a common expression along the lines of kleenex etc. Who wants to use Real Estate Agent or a Used House Salesman in a sentence.

#239 “Am I Buying This Home To Use It, Or For Anticipated Price Growth?” | Vancouver Real Estate Anecdote Archive on 09.17.17 at 1:16 pm

[…] Postscript anecdote: “I’ve started my active research in the detached market in my area. Inquired today about a detached 3br house in Langley (BC) nice neighbourhood, south-facing yard. Last Saturday we missed the open house, so I called the following Wednesday and inquired if they had taken any offers. “They listed after the long weekend and were going to take offers on the Tuesday but received no offers.” To which I replied “So do you think we could offer below asking, if we were interested?” He replied “Oh yea, definitely.” – from PupPatrol 09.15.17 at 6:04 pm at greaterfool.com […]

#240 Silver on 09.17.17 at 8:31 pm

bc ass_essment included a 35 million dollar building in my tax base to raise the tax value of my 300 thousand dollar property to 1 million for tax purposes
… it was not even in the neighbor hood i was in.

helps raise tax base claim to pay for the municiple raises wage graft though.

or as the city of vancouver lawyer who pushed me accross the floor at city hall said… prices never go down… you don’t know what you are talking about…

the graft is much deeper than the realtors slimy game…

bc ass..essment addmitted that i could sue then for the difference between what i paid and the fake vaue they claimed existed on my property for every tax year though… now 4 lawyers come to the counter when i show up.

its about forging the value of an equity document in the market above the promise to pay value.
and then leveraging municiple bonds on the claimed counterfet value.

the actual line they used at the time was…
“oh my god you can…” with a completely stunned look…

anyone have a spare few mil for a good honest legal fight… against a graft ridden government with plenty of publicly paid legal swine…

silver

#241 WormBin on 09.18.17 at 10:06 am

‘realtor, realtor, realtor.’

‘hear, hear, hear.’ …in true parliamentary form!

#242 joeschmo on 09.18.17 at 11:43 am

you can download the data using the cached version: https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/6zp1mm/my_real_estate_dashboard_got_shut_down_by_treb/dmwx66k/

#243 kavita devi Fights on 09.18.17 at 4:45 pm

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