The bite

And what’s the prime minister been up to lately, I hear you cry? Besides posing in his pink shirt between two cross-dressers in Halifax on the weekend? Let’s just hope they’re not incorporated, high-income IT guys when they unstaple their bosoms, or they might feel differently about Mr. Selfie.

Like Alberta Guy, a blog dog now in the crosshairs of the latest federal eat-the-rich campaign. You recall that days ago Ottawa declared war on self-employed professionals, with wealthy doctors and fancy lawyers getting no sympathy from the barking packs of jealous Millennials. But that’s just part of it. By attacking private corps, our government has confounded a mess of ordinary, non-rich people.

“You have been writing lately about incorporated companies and the upcoming changes expected from CRA,” says AG – who spend several of the past few years unemployed. “I am one of those who have essentially been forced to incorporate to continue working as a contractor in my chosen field: IT and Telecommunications.

“My corporation has been paying out dividends to me and my partner enough each year to fund our lifestyle.  The remaining income has been retained and invested inside the corporation as this represents the bulk of our retirement fund.

“I am at a loss now as to what to do…

  • do i pull everything out this year with large dividend payouts and then look for other ways to invest outside of the corporation?
  • do i start paying salaries and be saddled with monthly EI, CPP, TAX and annual payroll and other mandatory reporting?
  • do i need to make changes to my investment mix within the corporation?
  • do i stay the course and hope that whatever measures are put in place by T2 will be reversed when the newly minted Harper with a smile takes the reigns back in 2019?

“Your sage and thoughtful advice is always welcome and appreciated (there got the mandatory suck up in at the end).”

As Alberta Guy knows, being an IT dude working on contract (because no oil & gas company wants actual employees any more) is solitary. No pension plan. No matched RRSP contributions. No profit-sharing. No benefits. No paid vacations. No company-subsidized life insurance, mat leave top-up or sick leave. All you get is a cheque each month made out to the incorporated entity the employer forced you to create. And now you have to pay your accountant three grand a year to file taxes that are incomprehensible to the layman. Plus, when the contract ends there’s no severance pay, no retirement package and zero recourse if you were diddled.

In return for this crap, you can income-split with your spouse if she/he has been cut in as a shareholder, and also invest any retirement money inside the corporation where it can grow in a less-taxed fashion than within a non-registered personal account. Until now. Until T2.

The feds have launched a consultation process on wiping away such benefits – but it’s consulting in name only. The legislation has been drafted, will be introduced into the Commons this fall or in the March budget, and passed. This is a certainty because everybody hates rich people (especially physicians, lawyers and financial advisors) and believes Canadians should be taxed the same as the typical MA in sociology who works at Starbucks.

What Alberta Guy’s been doing is 100% legal. He pays tax on the cash flow he draws and his spouse is taxed on her dividend income – paid out after the corporation hands over its own taxes. Yes, together they’re in a lower personal tax bracket than if he took all the money in his name alone. But when you add in the corp’s taxes, it evens out. As for the retained earnings, they grow at a lower rate inside the company, but will be taxed as personal income in retirement, when drawn. As with an RRSP, hopefully at a reduced level.

Again, all legal. All reasonable. Less tax now is the trade-off for future income insecurity. In a world where the tax system is based on risk and reward, not envy and spite, it makes sense. But that’s no longer our world. Not in T2’s Canada.

So Alberta Guy, here’s the plan. First, do nothing fast. The law is as yet unknown, could change and will not be retroactive. It is always best to see the exact changes to know exactly how to respond.

Second, having said that, income-splitting is doomed. The CRA will have a ‘negative test’ in which any employee/shareholder/officer/director related to the principal must prove compensation has been reasonably earned, whether as salary, dividend or distribution. This may be a messy and arbitrary process and the ‘reasonableness’ test is opaque at the moment. People with corps should be ready in 2018 for CRA’s default position to be the taxation all distributions at the top marginal rate unless the recipient can prove bone fide work paid at a market rate. So. Give your spouse a title and a valid job.

Third, even more vagueness surrounds the idea of taxing retained earnings invested within a CCPC. The government says returns will be ‘harmonized’ with income flowing from personal investment accounts, suggesting the default position will be to tax all corporate investment accounts at the marginal rate of the beneficial owner. Sucks.

So, hoarding retained earnings within companies as retirement funds is now a taxing strategy with no perceptible benefit. Strongly consider drawing enough salary, starting in 2018, to maximize RRSP room, taking advantage of that room, and receiving the remainder of after-tax corporate earnings as dividends. The days of using a corporation to shelter investment gains and have them taxed at the small business rate are soon to be over.

Unlike people with pensions, self-employed IT guys who retire with fat RRSPs can control their own after-work incomes, hopefully living for years on their fully-invested TFSAs so CPP and OAS payments are not clawed back. When interest rates rise you can also consider melting-down RRSPs with an investment loan, and getting money out tax-free.

Be creative. Or, if really desperate, get elected.

275 comments ↓

#1 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 07.23.17 at 4:02 pm

Maybe these corporations, some of which make billions in profits, can go back to actually hiring people as employees and contributing their fair share towards CPP, EI. What say you boomer Garth. As always you’re not looking at the actual cause of the problem. Must be those boomer blinders you
have on. We could have been Norway with a trillion $ in the bank. Instead we’re West Virginia with universal healthcare.

Small corps do not make billions, and small businesses do the bulk of hiring. Please tell me you don’t vote. — Garth

#2 NoName on 07.23.17 at 4:09 pm

“do i stay the course and hope that whatever measures are put in place by T2 will be reversed when the newly minted Harper with a smile takes the reigns back in 2019?”

—-

does 1991 and GST rings a bell?

#3 For those about to flop... on 07.23.17 at 4:13 pm

The photo I selected is one of a montage of three and I felt this one was the most useable because the situation did not appear to have a happy ending.

Lets just put it this way,that dog is nuts…

M43BC

#4 FLHTK on 07.23.17 at 4:14 pm

Garth should I be putting more money into my OMERS additional voluntary contributions account, which is investing more into OMERS… they had a net return rate of 10.3% last year or more into my TFSA which I’m balanced and diversified in???
What’s a guy to do?

#5 Felix on 07.23.17 at 4:14 pm

First, of all. I want to say that no cat would do to its human acolyte what the pathetic mutt in today’s pic appears to be trying to do.

#6 Mike on 07.23.17 at 4:19 pm

Garth, I know you hate it – but don’t blame T2. He is just cutting out what folks were misusing I.e. Paying fake wages to family who don’t work for that supposed corporations.

That practise should not have been up in first place.

It is not about taxing the rich. We in our family take in $250k+ in wages and $300k+ with all benefits(RRSP contributions). Work in private sector with minimal job security too. Why should I be paying more taxes and not allowed income sprinkling to my kids, and get my income at dividend rates?

It’s all about fairness, Not about taxing the rich and all those complainers. I am rich too by those standards and why am I paying more taxes than same amount rich who are able to incorporate. Good job T2.

#7 NoName on 07.23.17 at 4:21 pm

@#107 Renter’s Revenge! on 07.23.17 at 3:05 pm

they gonna need lot more than happy meds, read about behavioral sink, people cant idle for long time because when they to we get what we have now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

#8 BBB on 07.23.17 at 4:21 pm

We need Trump to drain the swamp.

#9 NoName on 07.23.17 at 4:29 pm

of topic Interesting reat

https://apnews.com/91d3a13f83454c98a8a0c224f8117eb2

#10 Howard on 07.23.17 at 4:30 pm

“As Alberta Guy knows, being an IT dude working on contract (because no oil & gas company wants actual employees any more) is solitary. No pension plan. No matched RRSP contributions. No profit-sharing. No benefits. No paid vacations. No company-subsidized life insurance, mat leave top-up or sick leave. All you get is a cheque each month made out to the incorporated entity the employer forced you to create. And now you have to pay your accountant three grand a year to file taxes that are incomprehensible to the layman. Plus, when the contract ends there’s no severance pay, no retirement package and zero recourse if you were diddled.”

This crap is part of the reason I packed off and moved to Europe.

Canada : wages and job security in the dark ages.

Btw this is probably also why nobody from the developed world wants to immigrate to Canada. There isn’t a single first world country in which you would have a worse deal than Canada, in my opinion.

#11 MF on 07.23.17 at 4:35 pm

Contract with zero benefits, zero stability, low salary and high taxes is what the majority of positions are these days. Alberta guy is right, this government is pathetic and these moves are dumb. Just pointing out what a lot of older folks often ignore (or are ignorant to).

NF

#12 Real Estate Investor on 07.23.17 at 4:39 pm

Going to some open houses in W08 part of the GTA this week. Most seem that they are listed high given the average price, and slightly lower than April averages for the area. Will try low balling with conditions and large deposit on the best house. If I get it, I will hold it empty and sell in October. But for sure I will cut the grass and keep the house looking respectable for all the nosey neighbours. I’ll get all the bills mailed to the house to make it look like I live there so I can claim it as my principal residence. All looks promising for a quick flip and profit.

Happy Housing Profit Everyone (whose a brave investor and not a bench warmer like Happy Housing Crash Guy….lol)

#13 Dan.t on 07.23.17 at 4:39 pm

Just borrow as much as possible from the bank, lie on your mortgage application, apply for a government incentive or tax credit and flip houses for a living.

That’s why BC residents are all millionaires, plus it’s tax free. Best economy in the world. People hoarding houses then selling to others who want to hoard houses.

You can’t lose! Oh, then rent them out but don’t claim rental income. Tax man has other things to worry about and since everyone is doing it, it’s ok. They are worried about anything and everything non real estate related.

Real estate hoarding and flipping is good, doctors suck and don’t contribute to social good like marble countertops do!

Plus everyone needs to live somewhere, who needs a doctor, or some self employed guy. Tax them all… but leave the realtors and mortgage brokers alone! They are vital to making sure each Canadian has access to at least 3-4 investment properties and lots of marble countertops.

#14 Jacko on 07.23.17 at 4:52 pm

Hey Garth…what about Family Trusts owning a company? Does that mean anything different? Is T2 trying to take those apart too?

Yes, same. — Garth

#15 domain on 07.23.17 at 4:53 pm

Good post today Garth, very helpful.

Whenever the topic of taxes comes up with friends, colleagues or acquaintances I always remind them that for every penny that is removed from our income, that is 1 less penny to get into the local economy (unless you actually use debt to consume) which we make an effort to shop within.

But with each passing announcement laced with populist phrases like “fair share” or now “income sprinkling” my wife and I retrench a little bit more. Since we don’t use debt to finance consumption of any kind, and we save to invest a healthy portion of our income, it really is true with us that for every penny that is takes is a penny less that we spend. Being both self-employed, we have even discussed reducing our discretionary spending as far as we can without disrupting our lifestyle purely as a matter of principle in the face of this desire for ‘fairness’.

Since when is it fair to have one group of people penalized with a higher tax rate than people who make less? This type of taxation will drive away consumption and the wealth generating activities that fuel it.

We aren’t there yet, but I can now see the benefits of taking risks as a self-employed individual heading towards the sunset. We will hang on for a couple more years to see if the rest of Canada comes to its senses for the next election.

#16 OttawaMike on 07.23.17 at 4:54 pm

Maybe if Harper and the rest of the ugly Cons had stuck to the message of sound governance instead of Hijabs and barbaric cultural practice, we wouldn’t be in this position now.

#17 Will Homely on 07.23.17 at 4:55 pm

Another great reason with these new laws..try to find a reasonable salary in a lower bracket (with the highest hourly rate) work as little as possible, live humbly and enjoy time instead of earning money that will just be taxed away. Hopefully they won’t be taxing time in the future.

#18 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 4:56 pm

Let’s not talk about T2. The guy is so stupid he has not clue what his subordinate, the wild B is about to unleash.

As for Bill, his ideas are manifestation of idiocy and cretinism. To win hypothetically 250 mil in additional revenue which is highly questionable while alienating and openly opening war on doctors, lawyers, the fragile it sector.

The ‘village idiot’ nick name fit perfectly here.
Of course, the village idiot does think that it is fair for millions of tax free gains on primary residences in big cities due to his policies and government sponsored housing bubble not be taxed, while going for higher controversial peanuts in the case of small Business corporations.

Is is highly offensive to think that a person with such intellectual baggage (more precisely the lack of any) can actually influence and make life of tens of thousands of honest lawyers. doctors living hell.

As an advice for the incorporated IT folks out there: change you gender. Then you can claim harassment and disadvantage if/when CRA comes for you.

#19 Shah on 07.23.17 at 5:01 pm

First

#20 Andrewski on 07.23.17 at 5:06 pm

Re: #18 Shah; & she said, “Shah, you always come first!”

#21 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:12 pm

#9 Howard on 07.23.17 at 4:30 pm

This crap is part of the reason I packed off and moved to Europe.

Canada : wages and job security in the dark ages.

There isn’t a single first world country in which you would have a worse deal than Canada, in my opinion.
—————————————–

Exactly. I also moved out/to Europe.
Best decision ever.

No European in their right mind would move to Canada at this point.

What would attract him/her/zer? Transgender toilets?
Or the weather?

With assault on corporations the cold, sun-less and moldy place will become even more unliked.

Common, living in cardboard particle homes, all-glass condos or in moldy basements (the only place on earth where people live in proven unhealthy basements.) sold as a lifestyle?

————————-
From the outside the picture becomes pretty clear:
A dark, unhealthy labor camp in the tundra, owned by really stupid owners who want their fair share rents no matter what. In banking, telecom, services, governments.

Where you can f..k every that is moving and be proud of it.

#22 Bill Grable on 07.23.17 at 5:14 pm

If Mr. Turner can’t wake you up to reality with this info packed post, you are living on Mars.

Vancouver has been eviscerated by hordes of people that arrive in Canada, and avoid taxes and to heck with the people that play by the rules, and are buying multi million dollar places, cash. HOW?

Greed and outright fraud are making living in Vancouver just about impossible.

The City is so out of balance, that a lot of retail and restaurant outlets cannot get anyone to work for $20.00 an hour…because crap shacks are renting for $4,000 a month – IF you can find one.

The next time you see a lineup to buy the ton of new condos being slapped up….check out the ethnicity of the folks in line.

The time is coming, where local politicians and T2 are going to get the chop.

I will never vote for T2 again. The guy has the intelligence of a running shoe.

I will be looking forward to booing him, when he walks by our place in the upcoming Pride Parade.

My kids are making great money and a professionals, and read this blog everyday. They sold and now, they can’t find a place to rent, that is close to reasonable.

This is going to get very ugly and IF the moron from Ottawa and our space Cadet Mayor don’t get this mess straightened out….I hate to think what’s next.

#23 The lesser fool on 07.23.17 at 5:15 pm

@18
Sexist. You think all IT is male? Or am I being sexist for misinterpreting your message?

#24 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:20 pm

#6 Mike on 07.23.17 at 4:19 pm
Garth, I know you hate it – but don’t blame T2. He is just cutting out what folks were misusing I.e. Paying fake wages to family who don’t work for that supposed corporations.

That practise should not have been up in first place.

It is not about taxing the rich. We in our family take in $250k+ in wages and $300k+ with all benefits(RRSP contributions). Work in private sector with minimal job security too. Why should I be paying more taxes and not allowed income sprinkling to my kids, and get my income at dividend rates?

It’s all about fairness, Not about taxing the rich and all those complainers. I am rich too by those standards and why am I paying more taxes than same amount rich who are able to incorporate. Good job T2
————————-
Another government sponsored idiot.

So you are willing to waive your benefits, pension plan, vacation, drug plan, and agree to change your job every 6-12 months with gaps in between or wok for multiple clients in the same time for a chance to claim some small tax ‘advantage’?

Sure, be my guest. Why don;t you just quit job and start contracting. Incompetence, I guess? Admiring JT is sure sign of some mental illness. The guy never worked real job in his life.

#25 Mark on 07.23.17 at 5:20 pm

If the tax burden on in-demand professionals or workers rises, then their prices will rise. I don’t see what the problem is.

IT guy is complaining because the IT career field is incredibly glutted, and he most likely doesn’t have much, if any pricing power in the marketplace. Guys with IT and telecom experience in Canada are a dime a dozen. The oil and gas sector avoids taking them on as direct employees because one contractor can easily be replaced with another.

The goal of the tax system and tax policy should be to eliminate any ‘gains’ from tax planning or gaming of the system. Over time, this should make the economy more efficient as professionals and workers focus their efforts on working, not tax planning.

I’d even go as far as to say that RRSPs/RPP’s and TFSA’s should be eliminated. To simplify the tax system further.

#26 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:21 pm

#6 Mike on 07.23.17 at 4:19 pm

You always can pay volunteer capital tax gain on your primary residence. Send the check to your idol, J2.

#27 andre on 07.23.17 at 5:22 pm

Hi Garth, what happens if my corp enters 2018 with some retained earnings but the corp no longer earns much active income? Do you think we can still pay arbitrary dividends from prior-year retained earnings?

Neither my wife nor I would pass a ‘reasonableness’ test if we distributed dividends since we don’t do much work for that business anymore. Appreciate your thoughts!

Quack. Sitting duck. — Garth

#28 leebow on 07.23.17 at 5:25 pm

This is a clear message. If you grow big enough, move to a different jurisdiction.

#29 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 07.23.17 at 5:26 pm

@ #1 Garth: “As Alberta Guy knows, being an IT dude working on contract (because no oil & gas company wants actual employees any more) is solitary. ”

Why do boomers always use the lonely small business meme as a red herring to protect who they’re really shilling for: massively profitable multi-billion dollar corporations.

Seriously if you can’t even afford to actually employ people properly and put them on payroll, then you shouldn’t be in business. Absolutely pathetic. What has become of these titans of capitalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_public_companies_in_Canada_by_profit

5. Imperial Oil
7. Suncor Energy
12. Husky Energy
14. Canadian Natural Resources
25. TransCanada Pipelines
26. TransCanada Corporation
30. Cenovus Energy
31. Canadian Oil Sands

You get the idea.

I vote Conservative of course because running on your economic record in the middle of being the only G7 country in recession like Harper tried to in 2015 is the pinnacle of conservative exceptionalism.

Harper went full petro-state “energy superpower” for 10 years because he had a chip on his shoulder against the “Laurentian elites” (boy he sure showed them) and then was shocked that the country went into the crapper when oil prices plunged. Suddenly he tried to discover Ontario manufacturing but too bad that was already wiped out. inb4 but muh Wynne

I hope it’s not racist to the boomer SJWs to post this.

Nearly 300 contractors replaced with temporary foreign workers
http://www.fortmcmurraytoday.com/2013/10/07/canadian-employees-replaced-with-temporary-foreign-workers

I guess those Canadians just didn’t want those jobs eh Garth?

The topic is CCPCs, not public corps. Try to keep up. — Garth

#30 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:27 pm

Any normal 1st world country has normal family taxation.

In Germany, if alone, you pay 55 % taxes on 10 k Euro monthly salary. If you have a spouse and a kid/kids, you pay 2.5 k in taxes. Same if you have a corporation and pay your wife and kid salaries in the Canadian reality.

So instead of looking for a calf under the bull why are not the idiots in power trying to normalize the retarder Canadian tax laws?

#31 John on 07.23.17 at 5:31 pm

“When interest rates rise you can also consider melting-down RRSPs with an investment loan, and getting money out tax-free.”

Can someone elaborate on this? Thanks

I would, but we might be arrested. — Garth

#32 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:34 pm

Quack. Sitting duck. — Garth

This deserved another round of Johnny.

#33 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 5:40 pm

Or Sell everything and move to a warm tax free island. Buy an ice cream shop and trade forex when board.

And laugh your ass off at fellow Canadians that put up with this shit.

I suggest you open a twitter account and bash the crap out of T2 and Gerald Butts all day long. I’ve been zinging them lately.

#34 MSM-Free Zone on 07.23.17 at 5:40 pm

Or, if you’re a wealthy self-incorporated individual struggling for fairness, you can always consider the same smug, condescending advice wealthy individuals usually offer non-wealthy individuals as a solution to their fairness woes:

“If you don’t like your job, then quit.”

#35 Mark on 07.23.17 at 5:41 pm

You always can pay volunteer capital tax gain on your primary residence. Send the check to your idol, J2.

Does the opposite apply, if one’s house loses, say, half its value from the peak, can an individual “opt-out” of having it treated as a principal residence for tax purposes? Can the CRA merely and involuntarily “deem” a residence to be principal residence?

Just wondering, because if Canadian RE crashes as much as some of us predict it will, having a capital loss to apply against, for instance, stock gains, could be a bit of a consolation prize.

#36 Arctic Outback on 07.23.17 at 5:41 pm

The War on Doctors by Lie-berals continues! Easy targets to pay their ‘fair share’ by masses with cushy beaurocratic jobs. MD’s study/train for 12-16plus years and start out in a big hole. They have all of the overhead costs like any other business but can only bill the Government, not privately. In the past 3 years in the absence of an active contact the Ontario Liberals have imposed 3 unilateral cuts to their billing fee codes. As self-employed folks MDs have no pension, paid vacation, sick days, benefits and have to pay out of pocket for their continuing training and ongoing licensing. Plus they have no employment rights, see here : https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/tools/srt/coverage_ems_physicians_surgeons.php . Bottom line, with changes to Corps expect MDs to not work as many hours as in the past – less access plus a brain drain could be coming.

#37 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 07.23.17 at 5:44 pm

@ #29 to Garth: Alberta Guy has a CCPC but who was he working for? Cmon now.

#38 Danny on 07.23.17 at 5:45 pm

#8….BBB
“We need Trump to drain the swamp.”
???????
Really…have you not heard Trump…has not drained the swamp….he just made it a personal swamp.

He got elected to give his family and friends Government Jobs…with benefits.
Why not…they don’t have enough money….Remember when Trump….boasted. ” you can’t be too greedy”
Talk about income splitting at the highest level.
Say one thing and do nothing…unless it’s for your family.

Now he says he’ll pardon himself and his family if they are charged with some wrong doing.

Wouldn’t it be grand if you could pardon your friends…no matter what?
Also his American companies have applied for permission to hire Foreigners…..so much for helping American workers.
As to income splitting in Canada..wouldn’t it be grand if families were taxed as an entity……especially if there is only one income earner? ….but here it is personal income tax….not family income tax…besides some small adjustments and deductions..then you wouldn’t need these other methods to distribute your income within the family.

#39 Entrepreneur on 07.23.17 at 5:45 pm

I think T2 will not win the 2019 election because of all the different damages he has done. When stepping on too many toes the bigger turnout against him. People will not forget the hurt and pain.

As for the “when newly minted Harper with a smile takes the reigns” means the same old Conservative. So the best bully pals are at it again, keep other parties out. I think that kind of control thinking in government parties is one scary monster for the people of the nation and environment.

#40 The Real Deal on 07.23.17 at 5:48 pm

Anybody older than 40 has seen this before, it was called Brain Drain back in the 90’s when taxation and lack of opportunity drove the best and brightest out of Canada to search for a better living elsewhere. That and stupid Liberal Government policies pretty much created that 61 cent dollar in early 2000’s we will probably see re-tested again going into the last years of this decade.

#41 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 5:49 pm

A Reply to A Reply

#112 A Reply to #99 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 5:09 pm
Bonds can be callable, puttable, and convertible.

*********************************
Well, thanks for taking the time to reply. But I am never going to click on any of your links.

I write that investors as a population are powerless to remove money from bonds as an asset class, which is true for normal bonds which are probably 99% of them. And you reply with what I guess is an implication that my truth does not apply to those few bonds that are convertible or those probably extremely rare ones that can be redeemed by the investor (puttable).

It seems you miss the main point. And if you have something to say why not say it?

#42 TurnerNation on 07.23.17 at 5:53 pm

Sure T2 – distractor-in-chief.
Saw this vid, the Kanadian government set to release an app. Earn reward points for healthy activities.
A Gobbel, err Global News story.

In the first 1 minutes and 35 seconds of this newz report it said “Get the flu shot” four times (1:00-1:30). I stopped watching at that point. Thanks Big Pharma.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO_tfOuIP-o

“Points For “Good Behaviour”: Canadian Government Introduces the Creepiest App Ever”

#43 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 07.23.17 at 5:55 pm

T2 = Empty suit. Would he have been elected if his name was Schwartz or Turner ? I think not.

#44 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 6:00 pm

Or Plan B if your not ready for a Jimmy Buffet life style.

Open up a Delaware based LLC get a gig in the USA with a TN Visa, Bill your US cliants via your LLC keep most of your bounty in the LLC and invoice the LLC via your Canadian Crop for minimal salary till you can get a green card. Remember Trump will drop the Corp tax and personal tax.

You’re out of your mind if you stay and put up with this highway robbery. 54% bite me T2, your not getting it. Tomorrow I see my old doc to get my disability letter, Ancolysing Spondilitise is bitch.

Getting ten years of tax credits, and filling for a disability pention.

Not much $$$$ but hell. It will feel great. I’ve paid a shit of tax into the system and to be treated this way by a Prime Minister who clearly shows signs of a serious mental disorder.

#45 Mark on 07.23.17 at 6:00 pm

“Bottom line, with changes to Corps expect MDs to not work as many hours as in the past – less access plus a brain drain could be coming.”

Why should a doctor with a big family and the ability to “income sprinkle”, have an advantage over a doctor who is single and can’t avail themselves of such tax planning opportunity? Why should a wealthy doctor, with access to various tax shelters, be able to gain more of an advantage in terms of the tax system than a young doctor who doesn’t meet the minimums of such shelters or schemes?

If these changes reduce income to doctors in such a way that is inconsistent with their market position, then they will have bargaining power with their employers and payors for compensation increases.

At some level, as well, going into the “helping” professions isn’t just about compensation, but is also about helping people. Some of one’s compensation being the pride of actually helping people. Healthcare providers, while important to society, cannot be perpetually the highest paid workers in society. Other professions need their day in the sun as well if society is to enjoy future progress.

#46 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 6:00 pm

Small Corporation Taxes Are Complex

“And now you have to pay your accountant three grand a year to file taxes that are incomprehensible to the layman.”

******************************************
Yes, taxes for a small corporation are complex. I do the taxes for my business with the help of Turbo Tax for incorporated business. I have an accounting designation but I certainly struggle with it.

Turbo Tax for business is not like Turbo tax for an individual. It does not provide much guidance.

Investment Income and Capital Gains are subject to higher Part IV tax rates. I believe it is about 38% on dividends received but then there is a credit if you pay those out to yourself. Capital gains are taxed at 25% it seems. (Half are taxed and the rate appears to be 50%).

There is lots of fairly complex paperwork.

Getting someone else to do your taxes not only costs money but you would have to cart over a lot of documents.

The big advantage to investing in a corporation would come from buying growth stocks with retained earnings and then holding those for many years and resisting the urge to sell since selling triggers a capital gain and therefore taxes (and the work of doing taxes)

#47 The Real Deal on 07.23.17 at 6:01 pm

Canada = Open Air Gulag.

#48 BBB on 07.23.17 at 6:01 pm

#38 I don’t watch cnn. Enjoy your fake news.
Trump is winning.

#49 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 07.23.17 at 6:02 pm

If T2 was bald and his name was Turner he would not have been elected as MP in Quebec, nor leader of the Liberal party, nor PM of Canada. We got what we DESERVE !

There are no bald Turners. They’re all furry studs. — Garth

#50 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 07.23.17 at 6:06 pm

Where do you boomers think these poor ol Sears ladies will work now?

#BoycottSearsCanada: Retailer faces ‘PR nightmare’ over treatment of laid-off workers
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/sears-canada-facebook-restructuring-comments-severance-1.4216351

Why does Sears’ death at the hands of Amazon have anything to do with Boomers? You are losing it. — Garth

#51 For those about to flop... on 07.23.17 at 6:07 pm

A Reply to A Reply to A Reply to A Reply to a Reply to Reply…

#112 A Reply to #99 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 5:09 pm
Bonds can be callable, puttable, and convertible.

*********************************
Well, thanks for taking the time to reply. But I am never going to click on any of your links.

I write that investors as a population are powerless to remove money from bonds as an asset class, which is true for normal bonds which are probably 99% of them. And you reply with what I guess is an implication that my truth does not apply to those few bonds that are convertible or those probably extremely rare ones that can be redeemed by the investor (puttable).

It seems you miss the main point. And if you have something to say why not say it?

/////////////////////////////

MF wants this person to come up with a proper moniker.

Instead of “A Reply to”‘, I settled on Pedantic Poster…

M43BC

#52 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 6:08 pm

Melting Down RRSP

#31 John on 07.23.17 at 5:31 pm
“When interest rates rise you can also consider melting-down RRSPs with an investment loan, and getting money out tax-free.”

Can someone elaborate on this? Thanks

I would, but we might be arrested. — Garth

**************************************
Once in a while melting down an RRSP might be a good idea and proposed by a trustworthy advisor. More typically this strategy will be suggested by some shyster trying to get you to invest in some garbage for which he is getting a big commission to sell or in worst cases is about to abscond with your money.

An RRSP is a tax shelter. Seldom a good idea to cut short the sheltering from taxes. Never a good idea for someone still working at a good job. And there are probably better ways to fund a period of unemployment.

If saving taxes by borrowing a is a good idea (I doubt it), then go ahead and do it without touching the RRSP.

A shyster selling garbage to make an RRSP income stream non-taxable? Have you been eating forest mushrooms again? — Garth

#53 Frustrated Incorporated Guy on 07.23.17 at 6:09 pm

Garth,

It is particularly frustrating and unfair that this new scheme is retroactive, applying to distribution of income earned in prior years and retained. It is one thing to change the rules going forward on new income, it is another to penalize lawful choices made (with costs that otherwise would not have been incurred, like paying to set up the corporation, accountants to prepare books and returns, etc.) in the past on an expectation of how the RE could be distributed in the future.

As much as we are screwed, does it still make sense to keep some retained earnings in the small corp because the active taxable income rate for the corp is less than the top personal tier?

Example (using round numbers):

Joe’s small company (C) earns a net (after expenses but before distributions to him and shareholders) of $300K in 2018 and pays Joe about $200K in salary and dividends so that Joe personally is just at the top marginal rate threshold. C has to decide whether to pay out the extra $100K in 2018 to Joe (taxable in his hands at the top personal marginal rate) or keep as RE and invest.

Putting aside the high marginal rate on the passive income earned by C on the extra $100K it retains in 2018, it seems that Joe is better off not receiving the $100K in 2018 compared with a future year (retirement, bad year for business, he takes off time to discover the meaning of life) where C is not bringing in much active income and Joe is in a lower tax bracket. For example, say C has no net active income in 2019 but decides to pay out Joe the $100k left from 2018 as RE. Joe pays less tax in 2019 on the $100K than he would on that amount if he took it in 2018.

In short, although the “sprinkling” opportunity to C’s other shareholders (i.e. Joe’s family) is not available, there may still be some benefit to keep RE. Right?

#54 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 07.23.17 at 6:20 pm

@ #50: Garth I was just asking a question, sheesh. Don’t be so sensitive. I wasn’t blaming that on boomers. No need utilize the strawman. But it does tie in with your obsession of flooding the labour market with excess labour. But I know that’s a touch subject for you.

I figured I wouldn’t get much a response to #29 and #37. Anyways I’ll leave it there today, it seems I’m triggering these boomers and I wouldn’t want to penetrate anyone’s safe space.

To leave on a positive note, you do have nice hair for a man your age. You should run against Trudeau in 2019.

#55 Rebuttal on 07.23.17 at 6:20 pm

In all fairness, you should also consider that an IT contractor working full-time for the same company gets a gross pay that is at least 1.5 times the gross salary of an employee doing the same work. Yes, the contractor has less job security, no benefits, etc. But the much higher gross income makes up for that, more than plenty in fact in cases of in-demand IT specialists. Furthermore, the IT consultant hardly needs to makes any capital layouts, beyond the modest unvestment of buying his own laptop etc. Now factor in that the contractors are hardly taking any more “entrepreneurial risk” than their salaried equivalents: they only have one client for years, often. Many of these people are fortunate that our govt has been letting them get away with routing income through a corporation when in fact they should have been deemed, and treated, equal to their salaried equivalents. The new rules achieve that. What remains is that the contractor get no benefits and less security of work continuation, and in return his gross “salary” is about 150%. The freemarket mechanismfor labour will moreover modify that multiple as appropriate to compensate for real or perceived risk.

That said, I agree the impact on dentists and such is entirely different. They are more like entrepreneurs. So the unfairness critique may be more valid there.

#56 For those about to flop... on 07.23.17 at 6:26 pm

A shyster selling garbage to make an RRSP income stream non-taxable? Have you been eating forest mushrooms again? — Garth

//////////////////////

You know what, I’ve been struggling to come up with a third option to ask the gang what I should call my Pink Posts when the fall comes around and so now hopefully I will get some feedback.

A) Pink Maple Leaves falling in Vancouver.

B)Pink Pumpkins being carved in Vancouver.

Or with your help

C) Pink Mushrooms being eaten in Vancouver.

Let’s have a look at the board.

Audience says…

M43BC

#57 Working stiff on 07.23.17 at 6:27 pm

What a joke, claiming your spouse as part owner and getting dividends to reduce his taxes. You say he’s a risk taker because he’s self employed corp. the spouse does nothing to help the business or contribute to its growth it’ll always be a man show. It’s his choice to do this arrangement for employment.
It maybe legal, but why should it be different from making making my dog a dependent and taking the child tax credit?

#58 Looney Baloney on 07.23.17 at 6:34 pm

“… the process of creating and distributing money is the process of deciding what humanity does in the future. This process should be a transparently run public utility not a private monopoly in the hands of gangsters. We are fighting to free humanity from a horrific regime of babylonian debt slavery …”

Smokey, here is an idea for your next app:
– the app displays a categorized list of all government spending items. Citizens vote on where and what percentage of their tax dollars they would like to be spent on each item. Everyone gets to vote asany times as they would like (show trends), but not more than once per day.
– at the end of the week / month / year / term the app displays a comparison between your choices, the combined average of all other citizens who use the app, and where the government actually spent the money.

This is what a true democracy needs, not the popularity sh*t our voting process is today. It would also inform citizens of exactly which budget item the cash for the PM’s pink shirt came out of, and what percentage of their taxes went towards paying for it.

Something like this might be a little too complex to pull off with your VBA skills, but let me know if you are interested and we could work on throwing something together.

#59 Fran Deck Jr. on 07.23.17 at 6:35 pm

The City of Toronto Parks Department employees who ripped apart that $500 wooden staircase are the best example of a Canadian success that I can think of …

The Mayor has defended their right to build things in Toronto parks and has essentially guaranteed them ‘jobs for life’ which come with defined benefit pension plans, 6 weeks vacation (after 20 years), sick time, extended medical benefits and really good severence packages when they retire in their mid to late 50’s … and then they can collect their CPP at the age of 60 … it’s a sweet deal.

Why anyone in Canada would want to be self employed is a mystery to me … real success is measured by a civil service defined benefit pension … forget about graduate studies or professional designations … get a government gig cutting grass because the only income that matters in retirement is your net income with a small marginal tax rate … this is Canada – don’t be so ambitious.

#60 Oil Patch Consultant on 07.23.17 at 6:45 pm

Yep, I’m one of the guys T2 is gunning for. But my corporate taxes are easy this year. Income = zero.

That puts a bit of a dent in how much T2 thinks his tax grab will raise. Any government employee want to swap gigs with me? I thought not.

#61 Ronaldo on 07.23.17 at 6:49 pm

#22 Bill Grable

”I will never vote for T2 again. The guy has the intelligence of a running shoe.”
————————————————————-
That’s an insult to the running shoe. It would likely do a better job of running the country.

#62 Parsonage on 07.23.17 at 6:51 pm

No [email protected]
Thank you for this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Bi-racial Family Matters!

#63 ImGonnaBeSick on 07.23.17 at 6:53 pm

Mark… please, stop typing. You’re an idiot.

#64 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 6:58 pm

RRSP Meltdown

Garth responded to me at 52

A shyster selling garbage to make an RRSP income stream non-taxable? Have you been eating forest mushrooms again? — Garth

******************************
I was trying to be respectful of you by indicating that there were some cases where melting an RRSP can make sense.

I believe many such proposals in the past have involved things like moving the investments “offshore” There have been outright frauds. Usually the sales pitch starts out by getting the victim riled up about unfair taxes.

Even where the investment is legitimate, an advisor hungry for a Commission or to get assets on his books could encourage an RRSP meltdown where it is not a good idea.

Finally, with respect, I don’t really think borrowing to create an interest expense to offset the taxable income of an RRSP withdrawal really works. First, at today’s low interest you’d have to borrow a TON of money to shelter much of an RRSP withdrawal. $50k out requires $1,667,000 in debt at 3% interest to offset $50k of income. (But yes you could get another $50k out each year with this debt) In addition if borrowing to invest is a good idea it can be done independently of an RRSP melt down.

I’d advise caution on any suggestion of RRSP melt down. Not all investment advisors are trustworthy.

The math has been demonstrated here many times that an RRSP is no mere tax deferral plan, it reduces income tax greatly in most cases when it is considered that the tax is mostly just the government taking back approximately the proportion of the RRSP that it effectively funded a the outset through the tax refund.

I clearly said such a strategy may work ‘if rates rise’. Your proclivity to be a dick is showing again. — Garth

#65 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 07.23.17 at 7:01 pm

A shyster selling garbage to make an RRSP income stream non-taxable? Have you been eating forest mushrooms again? — Garth
……………………..
Then why don’t u provide some details ?

#66 Spock on 07.23.17 at 7:06 pm

#Screwed Canadian Millenial: do not comment unless you have something intelligent to say because it makes all other Millenials look real bad.

#Mark: $250K – $300K of household income – sure – is the spouse is making most of it. Your comment and deity like worship for T2 did shine forth very well.

It is amazing the Bill after being in daddy’s business has not learnt – T2 must practice some hypnotic chant.

Most Canadians are now waking up to the fact that the same way that Ontario has been taken deep into the point of no return – the Liberals are now doing the same to the whole country.

Cannot believe T2 got elected with a majority. Such is democracy.

God bless us all.

#67 I'm stupid on 07.23.17 at 7:07 pm

Isn’t having more than 80% of your income from one company make you an employee? IT guy should never have been allowed to be considered a contractor in the first place from CRA’s perspective. Am I wrong? There is a difference between an IT guy with one “client” and an IT guy with hundreds of different clients. One is a business and the other is an employee and they should be considered differently but companies trying to reduce cost are forcing employees to become contractors. CRA should be going after all tax cheats but they haven’t and now the hammer is coming down on everyone.

#68 MSM-Free Zone on 07.23.17 at 7:10 pm

#38 Danny on 07.23.17 at 5:45 pm

You can try and lead the freedum-luvin’, pickup-drivin’, gun-totin’, guvernment-hatin’, Trump voter base to common sense, but you can’t make them think.

They’re too ideologically blinded to admit that they’ve been played like banjos by the self-servin’, de-regulatin’, globalizatin’, outsoucrin’, offshorin’, swamp-drainin’, self-pardonin’ hyprocrite who surrounds himself with the very criminals who brought the whole world to financial collapse in 2008.

One need look no further than #48 BBB on 07.23.17 at 6:01 pm for proof.

#69 DD on 07.23.17 at 7:12 pm

Harper with a smile is looking better every day. If he is not elected, I will shut down my side consulting corporation. Not worth 46% tax + CPP + accounting fees. Unintended consequences, T2.

#70 Russ on 07.23.17 at 7:12 pm

And Garth said, “… what’s the prime minister been up to lately, I hear you cry? Besides posing in his pink short between two cross-dressers in Halifax on the weekend?”
==========================

Let’s not get all judgemental here. I’m sure Garth meant to say “pink shirt”, not really a Freudian slip but more like a tttypo.

And on the far left side, in Vancouver and the Islands, we refer to that colour as salmon.
Almost manly if you’ve ever caught one and removed the hook with your bare hands and then clubbed the thing to death with a stick.
No kidding, that’s how it’s done and we call it a sport.

#71 MF on 07.23.17 at 7:16 pm

#21 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:12 pm

You are right about T2 yes…

But Europe has it’s own issues and the EU is basically on borrowed time.

Canada is fine. T2 is crap but when he is gone we will pick up the pieces. You being here or not won’t change a thing.

MF

#72 MF on 07.23.17 at 7:18 pm

51 For those about to flop… on 07.23.17 at 6:07 pm

Ha yes.

From this point on, a reply to will be known as “Pedantic poster”.

MF

#73 Ben on 07.23.17 at 7:20 pm

I suspect this could lead to a growth in IPP’s over the next few years.

No shortage of work for tax accountants – once people start getting a handle on the new rules it will be time for the Conservatives to return to power and a new planning cycle cwill start all over again.

#74 IHCTD9 on 07.23.17 at 7:23 pm

#15 domain on 07.23.17 at 4:53 pm

…Being both self-employed, we have even discussed reducing our discretionary spending as far as we can without disrupting our lifestyle purely as a matter of principle in the face of this desire for ‘fairness’.

————

Welcome my brother. I made this decision last year, my household revenue contributions to the Trudeau disaster machine dropped bigly last year.

Pounded cash into RRSP’s
Avoided any major purchases via Retail and bought “like new” used (tax free) instead.
Took my 3rd vehicle off the road, cancelled insurance, solid it (at a profit no less) did not renew sticker.
Bought from the local reserve tax free

This year I am working towards the mother of all tax eliminations, reducing my conventional energy usage. That means electricity supplementation, gasoline use elimination, alternative heating fuel.

I am a bit extreme in this endeavour, but I find eliminating high taxed products from the menu, and offsetting others to be an enjoyable hobby, and it offers peace of mind as more and more T2 assaults on my finances shoot wide of the mark :).

#75 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 07.23.17 at 7:24 pm

Poor Garth has to deal with all those despicable realtors and other crazies tonight.

#76 Kool Aid on 07.23.17 at 7:30 pm

T2 will go down as the worst PM in Canadian history, pressing hardworking professionals for more tax is a MISTAKE.

Oh well, new NAFTA agreement will change everything. T2 on board with TPP too, pffft, MISTAKE.

#77 FreeBird on 07.23.17 at 7:30 pm

#18 StanBrook
As an advice for the incorporated IT folks out there: change you gender. Then you can claim harassment and disadvantage if/when CRA comes for you.
______________

It’s 2017. Many women are such professionals, and inc.
I’m one of them. Have a skilled team of both men and women. There’s no advantage to gender but there is with intelligence.

#78 A Reply to #8 BBB on 07.23.17 at 7:31 pm

“We need Trump to drain the swamp.”

Trump isn’t resigning anytime soon, and it’s not likely he’ll be impeached before the mid-term elections in 2018.

#79 Nonplused on 07.23.17 at 7:33 pm

Garth, don’t forget that these taxes aimed at small businesses are also going to impact the guy you have mow the lawns at the Belfountain and the bug out cabin. Most of the lawn guys around here are 1 guy with 3 or 4 seasonal employees, a couple of tractors and a trailer, and a few weed-eaters. These are the kind of “rich people” Glamboy and Clumsy have dead in their sites. And they will have to raise their rates. The money has to come from somewhere.

Add to that the new $15 minimum wage lawn guy has to pay the kids who drive his tractors, the carbon taxes he has to pay for gas (I forgot to mention there are a lot of jerry cans on his trailer too it takes a lot of gas to mow the lawn) and all the rest and this thing is a mess for him. Right now the going rate is somewhere around $175 per acre per mow for lawn care but I bet it’s going up over $200. The cost of everything is going to go up.

Now that I mention it the Belfountain is probably affected too depending on how you have that incorporated so ice cream is going to get more expensive too. Certainly a lot of mom and pop operations will be affected. My neighbor owns part of a pizza and steak house and I know he’s affected. When the minimum wage goes up he has to raise prices or he can’t pay his mortgage. Taxes will do the same. Fortunately the food is really good so he has some price elasticity so long as all the other comparable restaurants are in more or less the same boat, but he doesn’t pay the rising minimum wage or extra taxes, he hasn’t got the money, his customers pay it. (For those of you trying to figure out what all this means: You will pay the extra taxes through higher prices, not the doctors or the lawn guy or the owner of the ice cream parlor or the guy with a pizza shop. They don’t have the money.)

That’s the problem with this “victim culture” and “entitlement mentality” that our wonderful education system has been encouraging in our youth for the last 30 years. We know how this ends eventually too, we only need to look at Venezuela. Riots in the streets, empty stores, people eating dogs and flamingos, no police, no work, no money but yet massive inflation, no toilet paper, and roving motorcycle gangs stealing food trucks at gun point. Don’t think it can happen here? Yes it can, Venezuela is nearly as blessed resource wise as Canada is. All you need is the wrong mindset among the people, which we have, and the wrong government which we also now have. Probably take a long time but we are on the path.

“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” – Margret Thatcher

#80 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 7:35 pm

Point conceded

I clearly said such a strategy may work ‘if rates rise’. Your proclivity to be a dick is showing again. — Garth

**********************************
I accept your concession on this matter with greatest humility.

#81 your choice on 07.23.17 at 7:36 pm

So tired of self employed whiners ..poor me… I don’t have pension, have overhead, wah wah..Did someone FORCE them to pursue that particular career path…IT was your choice…maybe a little bit of research into what the particular job requires before heading down that long expensive road ie doctors …ya think..

#82 IHCTD9 on 07.23.17 at 7:43 pm

#15 domain on 07.23.17 at 4:53 pm

We will hang on for a couple more years to see if the rest of Canada comes to its senses for the next election
——

I used to think that way too, but I’ve learned otherwise from living in Ontario. Too many folks in Canada are SJW sympathizes, indebted up to their eyeballs, precariously employed, broke, millennials, and new+poor.

The cornerstone lesson to be learned, is that if you are making good life decisions, and are doing well, you’re the enemy – and the ever increasing vast minority of Canucks.

Make no mistake, T2 is where he is because that is what the majority of those who normally show up to vote wanted. They WANTED a douche like Trudeau, and they’ll want him again next time too.

Govern yourself accordingly…

#83 akashic record on 07.23.17 at 7:47 pm

The colour of the ocean at Côte d’Azur was the same.
So are the tourists swimming or sun-bathing.

The vehicle blocks installed along the famous beach-side boulevards and driveways are new.

So are the group of soldiers at Nice, Cannes in full combat gear, machine guns, patrolling the umbrellas of the beach bunnies.

#84 CL on 07.23.17 at 7:48 pm

you guys are all delusional if you think T2 will be voted out the next election. Canadians aren’t that smart and love the abuse so the beatings will continue until morale improves….ha!

#85 cowtown cowboy on 07.23.17 at 8:04 pm

Thanks Garth! I too am an IT consultant, forced to incorporate if I wanted any chance of landing a contract..My plan was to keep my retained earnings in the corp and invest within it to supplement my retirement income, however after searching for 9 months to get a gig, my corp is in hoc..so retained earnings are a bit of a wish list item!
Now, I figure I’ll just pay myself a higher salary, and max out rrsp and tfsa’s, and with my expenses paid by the corp it’s makes for a decent living, providing you can continue to find work…Lots of unemployed still in Cowtown. Working every day for months on end can wear you down, unlike the fulltimers with their 3-5 weeks off in the summer, numerous ‘sick’ days (you know, like when their cat gets the flu..)but that is the life..and now they even want to screw with that…unbelievable…

#86 dave in kincardine on 07.23.17 at 8:05 pm

True story: So a relative a few years ago incorporated and bragged about the big wage he was making and paying almost zero tax via corp loopholes. Probably the rub for me, one of his children was in a very serious car accident and taxpayers spent millions fixing her/ him to have some what normal life and Mr Incorporated is paying no tax, or a pittance. It just didn’t seem right. Germans pay lots of tax and are doing great. Why we compare ourselves to the losers in the US is beyond me.

In the 1950, corporations paid 50% of the tax bill in Canada. Now we run massive deficits and blame weak handed government policy.

#87 IHCTD9 on 07.23.17 at 8:05 pm

#16 OttawaMike on 07.23.17 at 4:54 pm
Maybe if Harper and the rest of the ugly Cons had stuck to the message of sound governance instead of Hijabs and barbaric cultural practice, we wouldn’t be in this position now.

——-

That’s right, Canadians voted SJW, just like I knew they would.

But, Canadians didn’t realize just how far Trudouche would take them down the SJW highway.

It took all of 6 months to see where we were headed…

Harper would have lost even if he gave BLM 100 billion while leading the pride parade driving an electric car taking selfies with young millennial 3rd wavers the whole way. Look at Ontario for crying out loud.

#88 Mario on 07.23.17 at 8:05 pm

Can someone define related to principal? Thanks. Do inlaws count?

#89 IHCTD9 on 07.23.17 at 8:11 pm

#18 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 4:56 pm

…As an advice for the incorporated IT folks out there: change you gender. Then you can claim harassment and disadvantage if/when CRA comes for you
—–

Well, at least Trudouche is making this option easy. I think we’re solidly trending towards being any gender we choose just by “identifying” as such.

Excellent option for Canadian males seeking employment in the public sector as well.

#90 Long-Time Lurker on 07.23.17 at 8:14 pm

#56 For those about to flop… on 07.23.17 at 6:26 pm

C) Pink Mushrooms being eaten in Vancouver.

The rational explanation (hee hee).

I’m stumbled on reading one of Mark’s posts from yesterday. (I thought it was Flop.) Who does IRR on a personal car purchase?

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/irr.asp

This is off-topic but interesting. How to blow $167 million. I guess he didn’t read Garth’s blog.

How tennis legend Boris Becker blew $167 million

http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/how-tennis-legend-boris-becker-blew-167-million/news-story/2fdda8ed2b698ef2f5da0d63e8b4ab50

#91 Paddler on 07.23.17 at 8:14 pm

#8 BBB I agree, we need Trump to drain the swamp starting with his own!!

#92 the ryguy on 07.23.17 at 8:30 pm

#6 Mike?

WTF is fair?

When I started my businesses (with after tax income btw) would it be “fair” to ask for taxpayer funds if it flopped?

The government has to take money to give it to someone else, so don’t give me this fair garbage.

You know it basically costs me 100% in taxes to give a christmas bonus to an employee? Oh and guess who has to match all the funds that the slobs in Canada want to live off of once they hit 62? The company does.

Stop pretending like this is even debatable. They steal..take their enormous cuts, and give the crumbs to the idiots that vote for this. I honestly wouldn’t even care if they could do that without going into obscene deficits and debt levels. The system is backwards and broken, I pity you if you can’t see that.

#93 IHCTD9 on 07.23.17 at 8:30 pm

#34 MSM-Free Zone on 07.23.17 at 5:40 pm
Or, if you’re a wealthy self-incorporated individual struggling for fairness, you can always consider the same smug, condescending advice wealthy individuals usually offer non-wealthy individuals as a solution to their fairness woes:

“If you don’t like your job, then quit.”

——-

That’s a great idea, close down the business and pay $0.00 in taxes to Federal, Provincial, and Municipal governments in one fell swoop.

Then pull a Smoking Man and take your pile of cash to a different country and spend it there instead of Canada to eliminate paying any taxes at all.

Surely, many well off self-incorporated individuals will be doing just that.

In fact, I plan on doing the same thing and I just earn a lowly pay cheque. The sooner I stop paying income taxes the better…

#94 -=jwk=- on 07.23.17 at 8:33 pm

do i start paying salaries and be saddled with monthly EI, CPP, TAX and annual payroll and other mandatory reporting?

Yes, like everyone else already does, that’s kind of the whole point of the change. You are running a business and paying employees. Why would you not be doing that?


So you are willing to waive your benefits, pension plan, vacation, drug plan, and agree to change your job every 6-12 months with gaps in between or wok for multiple clients in the same time for a chance to claim some small tax ‘advantage’?

If it’s a small tax advantage why complain about it, huh? I pay IT project managers 800-1000/day and developers 500-650 a day. They have no problem finding work and more often than not are skipping vacation to start a new contract.


Sure, be my guest. Why don;t you just quit job and start contracting.

Because only certain roles are a good fit for contracting. Duh. And those roles get a huge tax benefit that no one else does.


Incompetence, I guess? Admiring JT is sure sign of some mental illness. The guy never worked real job in his life.

Yeah, because teaching is so easy, and compared to Harper who…oh… never mind.

#95 Tony on 07.23.17 at 8:33 pm

Re: #12 Real Estate Investor on 07.23.17 at 4:39 pm

Keep an eye on these four cities: Richmond Hill, Markham, Unionville and Stouffville. Forget about W08 all that matters is what happens in these four cities as the entire GTA follows what happens to these four cities.

#96 Linda on 07.23.17 at 8:34 pm

In an earlier GT post, ‘Lee’ made the claim that every provincial government DB plan pays 70% of the highest 5 years of salary & that the government employee can access that money at age 52/53. I’d like him to back that up with a link showing this to be true. In good old Alberta, the plan for the provincial worker is LAPP & the rules are as follows: 1) NO pension paid until the employee is at least age 55. 2) pension paid on average of highest 5 consecutive years of salary (for most, the final 5 years of employment prior to retirement). 3) an 85 factor (years of age plus years of service) must be in place in order to receive an unreduced pension. No 85 factor, pension is reduced for every year short of that magic number unless you are age 65 or older. Any 65+ aged employee does not require the 85 factor to retire with an unreduced pension. However, time equals money – if you retire with less than 25 years of paid pensionable service you will not be getting much in the way of a pension payment. 4) the 5 year average the LAPP pension is based upon is capped.

The average pension amount for someone who has paid into the plan for the maximum time allowed (35 years) is roughly 50% (not 70%) of the employees gross salary. Obviously if an employee does not pay into the plan for 35 years & retires ‘early’ the amount they receive is lower. Police & firefighters have a different pension plan structure that permits them to retire after 25 years paid service, but their pension plan deductions are higher. So I’d say ‘Lee’ is talking through his hat.

#97 Raging Ranter on 07.23.17 at 8:42 pm

Most sane governments do try to close loop holes, but only do so after lowering marginal rates. That’s not what happened here. First they brought in a new top bracket 4 points higher than the old one, and now they are forcing more people into that bracket. That’s asinine, and there will be a price to pay.

Trudeau just made it that much harder to attract and retain top medical talent. Their won’t be an exodus or a stampede for the border – you don’t just up and abandon a practice because of taxes. But you can bet we will have shortages of various specialists very soon. Because choosing to set up shop in Canada just keeps getting less attractive and less lucrative.

Policy changes affect things at the margins. If just 10% of the practitioners who might have considered greener pastures now opt to leave, well, someone’s grandma is going to be seeing a slightly less capable cardiologist for her pace maker, and maybe wait slightly longer to get it. Let’s hope he’s not that much less capable. And hope it ain’t your grandma.

#98 Randy Randerson on 07.23.17 at 8:43 pm

Since taxation within CCPC investment will not be retroactive, I’d suggest Alberta Guy to open up a LOC within your CCPC, and borrow the money to invest. This way you investment income within your CCPC will still be taxed at a lower rate.

#99 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 8:43 pm

If any of you dogs plan on skipping town for a few years and want to get rid of your junk.

Donate your stuff to Habitat for Humanity, you get juicey tax credit.

#100 Raging Ranter on 07.23.17 at 8:50 pm

Screwed Millennial, your attitude is best described as “pissy”, and yet you seem surprised when others respond to you in kind. Also, how many Millennials shop at Sears? I thought so. Maybe your generation of Amazon shopping hedonists put those ladies out of a job. Since you enjoy playing the generational blame game, there you go. I’m neither boomer nor Mill, so don’t bother responding with some “you boomers” garbage.

#101 Wondering on 07.23.17 at 8:53 pm

Garth, I’ve a question. Let’s say you are sitting on a pile of cash(say a couple of million) in CCPC. The cash generates some investment income, say $100k/year.
What happens if you do nothing but take this investment income out as salary for yourself?
You’ll get the investment income in the company and then pay it out at a rate of about 15 to 20%.
Would there be a problem with this?

#102 was just a matter of time.. on 07.23.17 at 8:53 pm

Canada ineptness at the top of govt would yield consistent massive deficits. Housing startign to explode, there goes a revenue stream. Now what?

1. go after the ‘rich’
2. legalize weed

two fantastic revenue streams . ….for Canada’s incompetent govt to piss away.

socialism is fun

#103 M-cube on 07.23.17 at 8:55 pm

The first post of today goes to #1 Screwed Canadian Millennial. Although he may lacks a certain tack in his approach (but don’t we all?), he does raise a very important point.

The so-called attack on incorporate individuals by T2 in this year of 2017 is not a problem that T2 caused. It is a result of many missteps and stolen opportunities of the decades and generations prior. If you want answers to the “why is this terrible tragedy happening!?” of today, you must go much further back in time for the multiple causes.

Screwed Canadian Millennial understands this better than most. Don’t be fooled.

#104 BillyBob on 07.23.17 at 8:56 pm

As a longtime expat I enjoy following events in the country of my birth that issued one of my passports. (Don’t be a hater, Canada is a “post-national” state now, remember?) Smokie may be off the wall, but he’s absolutely correct – if you have, or want, more than average wealth, look elsewhere.

The Screwed Millennial guy is certainly living up to the caricature of his nickname. Doesn’t seem to realize that excess labour is due to having to compete with the dual prongs of technology replacing jobs by the thousands, and tons of cheap global labour. Not some evil plot by those “boomers” he envies and resents. It’s just demographics. I guess we all need someone to blame. Predictable and tiresome, though.

I was forced by circumstance to leave Canada for employment over ten years ago. At the time I had little saved and dim professional prospects there. And the adjustment was painful at first. But it’s been interesting to see the progression over time: from sorely missing Canada at first, to slowly adjusting to being away from it, to the point I am now, where every single day I am deeply thankful that I am no longer residing within Canadian borders.

Columns like today are a big part of the reason why. The things I love about Canada – family and natural beauty – will always be there and regularly visited. I know it doesn’t fit with the cherished belief that “everyone is desperate to immigrate to Canada, the BPOE” but I for one discovered – by accident – far more opportunity once I left. You can keep your ridiculous PM, your taxes, your weather, your supply-managed industries, the vast laundered money, the silly duopolies, the smarmy nationalism. As a global citizen the country is like a surly know-it-all teenager with acne, in a room full of adults.

And I will just keep ticking “visitor” on the customs form on my frequent visits, spend my discounted CAD, while leaving y’all to get rich selling houses to each other. And keep my hard-earned wealth far away from the grasping hands of politicians who seem bent on following failed ideologies based on greed and envy masked in the language of “fairness”. Orwell would be proud.

Good luck until the next election.

#105 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 8:56 pm

Seems there are a shit load of Canadian Deplorables.

Go look at the comments T2 gets on his twitter feed.
Liberalism will go instinct because of this man.
20 negative vs 1 positive.

Hilarious
@JustinTrudeau

#106 New Canadian on 07.23.17 at 9:00 pm

#70 MF on 07.23.17 at 7:16 pm
#21 Stan Brooke on 07.23.17 at 5:12 pm
#71 MF on 07.23.17 at 7:18 pm

You are right about T2 yes…

But Europe has it’s own issues and the EU is basically on borrowed time.

Canada is fine. T2 is crap but when he is gone we will pick up the pieces. You being here or not won’t change a thing.

MF

As a New Canadian coming from the so called 1st World Europe, I second MF’s view.

Both Canada and EU have positives and negatives. EU is a tremendously diverse place marked by elitism (note un-elected overpaid left leaning bureaucrats calling the shots from Brussels while adoring T2), nationalism and a far greater xenophobia compared to Canada. And that xenophobia applies also to migration within the EU. Try to be an Eastern European in Germany or the UK and Canada would look quite attractive.

In terms of job opportunities, try to be a young professional attempting to enter the work force in Spain or Italy for instance, and you may as well wish to immigrate to Canada pronto.

Obviously, if you move as a Canadian to Germany to try it out and find a good job, things may look different. Europeans generally like Canadians which makes the move rather easy. But remember you always have the option to return to Canada if for instance you start to miss all the amazing nature Canada has to offer with a complete lack of crowds, unlike in most popular nature spots in Europe.

And I really do not understand all that rant about the crappy weather in Canada. Try to spend a year in some little town in Northern Europe and I would expect you to be running back to sunny Canada (think Calgary or Montreal, not everybody lives in GTA or Vancouver!) prontisimo.

I recently read this view on Canada by an Irishman and I think it pretty much says it all:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/ten-things-i-ve-learned-about-canada-in-40-years-living-here-1.3138105

#107 joblo on 07.23.17 at 9:05 pm

Who thinks up this crap? T2? BM?
Is this about being broke or getting votes?
Me thinks the latter, are there enough idiot voters in Kanada to buy this poop?

#108 Ace Goodheart on 07.23.17 at 9:10 pm

Will be interesting to see how they manage to attribute to someone else, income paid as dividends to shareholders of a corporation.

That will be some sort of legal acrobatics.

The owners of the corporation usually do not work there.

#109 A Reply to #41 InvestorsFrien on 07.23.17 at 9:13 pm

“… I am never going to click on any of your links.

“… those probably extremely rare [bonds] that can be redeemed by the investor (puttable).”

Puttable bonds are retractable by the bondholders. Callable bonds are redeemable by the issuer. Of course, you’d know that had you clicked on any of the links. :)

Bonds and bond ETFs are not valued the way you think they are! Go back and look at the attached links.

#110 Mark on 07.23.17 at 9:14 pm

“If it’s a small tax advantage why complain about it, huh? I pay IT project managers 800-1000/day and developers 500-650 a day. They have no problem finding work and more often than not are skipping vacation to start a new contract. “

I’ve personally never heard of anyone in IT who voluntarily becomes a contractor. Usually they’re forced into it by the employer who wants to cheap out and doesn’t want a long-term employee. IT people desperately desire to be part of a business, and its long-term success. Not merely as throw-away contractors. Your numbers are completely out of whack with what IT workers cost in the contemporary market, and with the poor state of the sector in Canada.

Yes, the contractor has less job security, no benefits, etc. But the much higher gross income makes up for that, more than plenty in fact in cases of in-demand IT specialists.

There aren’t that many in-demand IT specialists. The job boards for IT specialists are largely empty these days. You really think good quality IT specialists want to be dealing with all the stuff involved with a corporation, instead of just being a neat and clean T4 employee with a company that fosters and foments good long-term relationships? I personally see no problem with legislative changes that discourage people, especially IT professionals who are basically captive to an employer or two, from incorporating. The real elephant in the room for IT has been over-production of grads, and the heaps of TFWs brought into a very glutted sector in Canada.

#111 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 9:16 pm

98 BillyBob on 07.23.17 at 8:56 pm

Brilliant post. And the Smokey Off the wall comment.

Proudly off the wall here. Take those as compliments. Who wants to be normal in an insane world full of people with serious mental disorders.

#112 bigtowne on 07.23.17 at 9:17 pm

Trump seems to keep New York and Vermont states in good shape. The roads we used for our mountain tours through the Green Mountains in Vermont and the Adirondacks in New York states were excellent. The ferry to cross Lake Champlain was on time and ran on time. New York state seems to have full employment as the local McDonald’s and hotels near Syracuse had many signs offering wages starting at $10.75 an hour.

The hotels were mostly renovated. Trump seems to have only good and positive influence on the New England states…which is weird as New York and Vermont are democratic.

#113 LOL on 07.23.17 at 9:18 pm

So tired of self employed whiners ..poor me… I don’t have pension, have overhead, wah wah..Did someone FORCE them to pursue that particular career path…IT was your choice…maybe a little bit of research into what the particular job requires before heading down that long expensive road ie doctors …ya think.

…..

whiners? not everyone can be a teacher…cop…..

your sorry ass will end up in the emergency room one day. Make sure the doc is in a good mood. Hint- don’t call him a whiner.

#114 Bottoms_Up on 07.23.17 at 9:19 pm

The environment for these types of tax changes would not be as it is today if companies and corporations didn’t offshore jobs, trade full time jobs for multiple part timers, and if government didn’t allow rampant house price growth through cmhc and special incentives for first time buyers (0/40; rrsp downpayment).

#115 common sense on 07.23.17 at 9:25 pm

Can Donald pardon Bill, Justin and Wynne just because?

#116 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 9:29 pm

Garth has a way of seeing future when it comes to govt stuff. Last year when he first mentioned the Dr tax I crapped my commando shorts.

He’s been bang on with those calls for a long time, good sources for sure.

I prepared, sold sholong branch. Made myself persona no grata on bay street so I could not change my mind. The Dr tax was what did it for me. With out going into too much detail wifey-poo can’t work.

So if no income splitting allowed I made the choice.
Crank it.

https://youtu.be/TpNWSW49IBM

#117 ANON on 07.23.17 at 9:31 pm

I’m with Felix on this one.
Both fascinated and out of popcorn, with a sense that the flame wars and solutions will only keep getting better as night progresses. Should have stockpiled more, so I’ll check back in the morning with a mug of coffee :)
It is never different, because it cannot be different. First it’s diminishing returns, and then contraction. Now that will require a lot of popcorn.

#118 My name is Nobody on 07.23.17 at 9:31 pm

“As for retained earnings they grow st a lower rate inside the company, but will be taxed as personal income in retirement, when drawn.”

I think you are mistaken Garth, the retained earnings are whats left over after company has already been taxed snd will be tsken out as dividends, unless they change the tax benefits of dividends these wont be taxed at personal income rstes. However the passive income from these retainef earnings will likely be taxed at the personsl income rate.

The reference was obviously to income from retained earnings. — Garth

#119 Arto on 07.23.17 at 9:32 pm

Who else thinks Ross Kay is an irritating man?

If you tell him yogurt is white, he’ll argue it’s black

#120 Willy H on 07.23.17 at 9:42 pm

As Alberta Guy knows, being an IT dude working on contract (because no oil & gas company wants actual employees any more) is solitary. No pension plan. No matched RRSP contributions. No profit-sharing. No benefits. No paid vacations. No company-subsidized life insurance, mat leave top-up or sick leave. All you get is a cheque each month* made out to the incorporated entity the employer forced you to create. And now you have to pay your accountant three grand a year to file taxes that are incomprehensible to the layman. Plus, when the contract ends there’s no severance pay, no retirement package and zero recourse if you were diddled.

In return for this crap, you can income-split with your spouse if she/he has been cut in as a shareholder, and also invest any retirement money inside the corporation where it can grow in a less-taxed fashion than within a non-registered personal account. Until now. Until T2.
___ ___ ___ ___

*Most professional contract workers in finance, consulting, IT, and a myriad of other fields are paid hourly rates that are 30% to a 100% higher than what a salaried employee will be compensated net of benefits. Even if they receive the same rates as a salaried employee they are paid for every hour they work, many salaried employees work overtime without any compensation.

This hourly rate factors in the cost of benefits but the contracted employee is left to sort this out and the company is off the hook for all the messy administration costs etc…

Professional contract workers don’t have to put up with office politics, annual reviews and they are in total control of their careers.

As for having no pensions. Pensions are very rare for most private sector workers and this has been the case for almost two decades. Even when employees have pensions they are not big enough to provide security in retirement.

No doubt all this incorporation crap is legal tax avoidance but that does not make it equitable vs options available to a salaried employee.

This is the key question.

Is this equitable?

#121 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 9:48 pm

#108 Mark on 07.23.17 at 9:14 pm
“If it’s a small tax advantage why complain about it, huh? I pay IT project managers 800-1000/day and developers 500-650 a day. They have no problem finding work and more often than not are skipping vacation to start a new contract. “

I’ve personally never heard of anyone in IT who voluntarily becomes a contractor. Usually they’re forced into it by the employer who wants to cheap out and doesn’t want a long-term employee. IT people desperately desire to be part of a business, and its long-term success. Not merely as throw-away contractors. Your numbers are completely out of whack with what IT workers cost in the contemporary market, and with the poor state of the sector in Canada.

Yes, the contractor has less job security, no benefits, etc. But the much higher gross income makes up for that, more than plenty in fact in cases of in-demand IT specialists.

There aren’t that many in-demand IT specialists. The job boards for IT specialists are largely empty these days. You really think good quality IT specialists want to be dealing with all the stuff involved with a corporation, instead of just being a neat and clean T4 employee with a company that fosters and foments good long-term relationships? I personally see no problem with legislative changes that discourage people, especially IT professionals who are basically captive to an employer or two, from incorporating. The real elephant in the room for IT has been over-production of grads, and the heaps of TFWs brought into a very glutted sector in Canada.
….

Not true, this drunk who mastered VBA and knows how to build swap pricers, and risk tools where the risk can be displayed in duration buckets that can be slightly modified is in huge demand.

The Dr tax sent me for a photo op with Garth. Then drunken rants on Linked In and they still want my, even after the DM shit show where all my posts vanished then re appeared by popular demand.

Not going to happen. Enjoy your TFW

I saw garths seasonal operation of selling Ice Cream. I’ll do it full time, year round and not pay a penny in tax. Taxation is theft.

Die you scumbag pink shirt day liberals.

#122 TurnerNation on 07.23.17 at 9:52 pm

#42 TurnerNation I posted:

Guess they didn’t want people seeing that video. When I posted it Youtube showed 59 views. Now it’s down to only 41 view. Down? 59 seemed too low to begin with. Those number are set by algos…to meet needs. Fictional.

#123 the Jaguar on 07.23.17 at 9:53 pm

Garth, why do so many come here to ‘piss on your rug’, as LBJ used to say? The self congratulatory, chest thumping attitude and comments are more transparent than those who post them might realize.
If the only way you can build yourself up is to tear other people down I might be inclined to say I feel sorry for you, but I do not. Nor do I feel anger towards you. I just feel an overwhelming desire to distance myself from you… Your real sin is being a bore.
If you are so happy in your smug little life why do you feel the need to come here and dismiss the lives of people who made a different choice than yours?
Don’t hide behind thoughtful commentary on legislation or governmental policy as a defense. It’s more than that and you know it. It’s just all about ‘you’, isn’t it?
You made your bed. So live in it and stop boring all of us with the details.

#124 Linda on 07.23.17 at 10:00 pm

Further to my earlier response to ‘Lee’ who had stated in an earlier GT post that provincial government workers take home 70% of their earned salaries once retired. There is one scenario where the 70% figure may hold true. IF one works the full 35 years to get fully funded LAPP & then if one compares the net take home pension vs. the net take home salary when employed, it is possible that the net pension would be 70% of the net take home salary after all payroll deductions. It depends on the deductions & presumes that the retiree does indeed receive half of their previous gross annual salary as their gross annual pension.

#125 Deplorable spacetime on 07.23.17 at 10:03 pm

#97 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 8:43 pm

If any of you dogs plan on skipping town for a few years and want to get rid of your junk.

Donate your stuff to Habitat for Humanity, you get juicey tax credit.
..
So when ya jumping the fence.. you’ve been going on on for years about going for a tax free runner..

#126 crowdedelevatorfartz on 07.23.17 at 10:04 pm

Wow !
Prime Minister Photo-op is becoming the anti Trump in his politically cringeworthy one-upmanship embarrassment factor for the voters that put him there…..
A one term wonder…..just like Trump

#127 BBB on 07.23.17 at 10:06 pm

#38 Danny on 07.23.17 at 5:45 pm
I am sick and tired of T2’s socks, nazi legacy inspired Freeland, inept BM, Afganistan hero Sajjan and CBC talking heads going after ruskie spies and disseminating Times and CNN hysteria. Don’t repeat MSM lies. From aloof academics to career government cronies, President Barack Obama filled his Cabinet with individuals whose greatest achievements were dreaming up unworkable Democratic utopias from the far off perches of academia and Washington bureaucracy. By contrast, President-elect Donald Trump has appointed doers and captains of industry, for which he has received the ever so out-of-touch critique of the mainstream media. “What we have are ignoramuses, billionaires and a few generals,” lamented Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post.
On the contrary, “what we have” is a Cabinet that looks a lot more like the novel appointees of President Ronald Reagan and less like the failed Obama appointees who gave us four dead Americans in Benghazi, the Fast and Furious gun running catastrophe and the death of a border patrol agent, hundreds of dead veterans in line at the VA, a failed $2 billion-dollar Obamacare website, $500 million taxpayer dollars lost at Solyndra, and $6 billion dollars wasted at the State Department.

#128 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 10:20 pm

23 Deplorable spacetime on 07.23.17 at 10:03 pm
#97 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 8:43 pm

If any of you dogs plan on skipping town for a few years and want to get rid of your junk.

Donate your stuff to Habitat for Humanity, you get juicey tax credit.
..
So when ya jumping the fence.. you’ve been going on on for years about going for a tax free runner..

I was hoping the Dr tax would not happen
As you know I hold a PhD in Herdonomics.

Well I had to wait for peek re which I did. But in retrospect peek real estate is a few years away but me and her dont have the luxury of time.

Then the proceeds to my kids or wifey-poo is not coming.

I’ll be full time Gonzo in two weeks.

#129 Walter Safety on 07.23.17 at 10:21 pm

T2 will get re elected.
But I’ve been thinking about this for a while so I’ll be paying less tax.
Like Smokie I’ve been setting up my Dr for the disability tax credit , he’s not sympathetic but he’s near retirement and his replacement won’t know about the sking in Whistler thing.
On the corporate front I’m not going to sign a new lease in 2019 , will send the assistant home with the contractor option to take or leave, salespeople too it costs $800 a month for a place for their bum and speaking of that they let me know when the tp is running low.
On the income splitting thing I’m up for the fight . CRA doesn’t have the manpower to police wages for kids putting stamps on envelopes or mileage allowance for my wife .
I’m setting up jurisdictional savings too .
People will push back at least the self employed will, the rest of you will never know the thrill of getting paid when you scoop ice cream.

#130 Oh woe is me on 07.23.17 at 10:22 pm

Sorry, as an IT contractor/employee I have never been out of work when I wanted to be, contrary to opinions expressed here. Perhaps it is the quality of work you provide. Just saying. Life is not tough. Perhaps you should try real estate.

#131 NoName on 07.23.17 at 10:25 pm

@ #104 New Canadian on 07.23.17 at 9:00 pm

do you mind where did you’ve come from, let me try to guess UK.

#132 Willy H on 07.23.17 at 10:29 pm

About 5 years ago I came the sad and rather pathetic conclusion that choosing to work in the private sector on a salary (in Canada) has to be one of the dumbest decisions of my adult life.

The divergence between government workers* (and their post retirement benefits), professional contractors, professional self-employed (incorporated or not!), wealthy senior management, corporate executives and the average private sector salaried (or low income small business) loser is truly astounding.

There was a time when the private sector lead the way at all levels of employment. Those days are long behind us.

Fully support T2’s initiatives to level the playing field.

The wealth gap continues to grow unabated.

No more time to post this evening. Too busy trying to find my children government work and preparing myself to become a consultant!

*All levels of government from municipal right up to the Federal Government.

#133 Deplorable spacetime on 07.23.17 at 10:32 pm

#126 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 10:20 pm

23 Deplorable spacetime on 07.23.17 at 10:03 pm
#97 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 8:43 pm

If any of you dogs plan on skipping town for a few years and want to get rid of your junk.

Donate your stuff to Habitat for Humanity, you get juicey tax credit.
..
So when ya jumping the fence.. you’ve been going on on for years about going for a tax free runner..

I was hoping the Dr tax would not happen
As you know I hold a PhD in Herdonomics.

Well I had to wait for peek re which I did. But in retrospect peek real estate is a few years away but me and her dont have the luxury of time.

Then the proceeds to my kids or wifey-poo is not coming.

I’ll be full time Gonzo in two weeks.
..
mrs smokey will never last without friends n family… just you on an island to keep her happy!! .. good luck dude..!!. lol

#134 604renter on 07.23.17 at 10:36 pm

Yowza. 16 years of education. Working 80 to 100 hr work weeks for 5 years as a resident physician. Huge responsibility. 200k in the hole by the time I started working. I wont be the only Canadian leaving for the US. It took me less than 2 days to tie down a full time job there by the way. Sad. See ya Canada

#135 bring_it_on on 07.23.17 at 10:36 pm

#6 (Mike)

Garth, I know you hate it – but don’t blame T2. He is just cutting out what folks were misusing I.e. Paying fake wages to family who don’t work for that supposed corporations.

It’s all about fairness, Not about taxing the rich and all those complainers. I am rich too by those standards and why am I paying more taxes than same amount rich who are able to incorporate. Good job T2.

———————————–

I fully agree with Mike. My wife and I bring in 350K annual from working our tails off over the past 25 years at the University (and we love our jobs and are dedicated to education). We both grew up in a very blue collar pro-union families, where there was just enough resources to provide food on the table. The idea of making a level playing field for ALL members of society and valuing increased funding in education and job training is ingrained deeply in us. No special deals for parasitic “developers” and “investors” (both foreign and domestic) who make our major cities unaffordable for our kids. No special Tax deals or tricky accounting for those who can “incorporate” to avoid taxes. Taxes should be progressive (we are happy to pay even more) but no “special groups” should be immune or be able to avoid their fair share. I am not at all worried if some doctors move to the U.S. due to a perceived Tax burden. There are always MANY more top students that are now just below the entrance line to medical school (at least at my university). There needs to be a step towards equality in our society. Bring it on T2…

#136 NoName on 07.23.17 at 10:38 pm

#123 Deplorable spacetime on 07.23.17 at 10:03 pm

#97 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 8:43 pm

If any of you dogs plan on skipping town for a few years and want to get rid of your junk.

Donate your stuff to Habitat for Humanity, you get juicey tax credit.
..
So when ya jumping the fence.. you’ve been going on on for years about going for a tax free runner..

—-

you are probably better off giving a money away to political party over charity, but again i might be wrong.

$1000 cash contribution political party
credit $558.34

$1000 cash donation to charity
credit $361.38

#137 W on 07.23.17 at 10:49 pm

I know they claw back OAS. They can’t claw back CPP, can they? It’s not means tested.

#138 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 10:52 pm

When you deside to write from the heart. That empty sector of truth, the day job mask off.

This is mandatory.

https://youtu.be/tAGnKpE4NCI

Gartho and Dorothy are amazing good shits.
Sorry bandit your a dog. Better than Humans if that makes you feel better. Just trolling you bandit.
You are a beauty like every dog out there.

#139 cd on 07.23.17 at 11:01 pm

#44… Smoking man I have had numerous different types of US visas and been through the ringer for casual answers on my paper work. So I see that there are a lot of flaws in your plan B.

#140 Fish on 07.23.17 at 11:04 pm

I don’t know, I don’t know, I guess just a
Straight tax across the board would
not work?
Pick your number 10, 15 20 %etc for all Canadians
To be taxed

#141 45north on 07.23.17 at 11:07 pm

days ago Ottawa declared war on self-employed professionals, with wealthy doctors and fancy lawyers getting no sympathy from the barking packs of jealous Millennials. But that’s just part of it. By attacking private corps, our government has confounded a mess of ordinary, non-rich people.

The real point is that in the next election, we’re looking at a 50% drop in real estate values in the GTA. Strictly from the perspective of Bill Morneau, you want to do everything you can to keep the Toronto real estate market up. That would include reassuring the ordinary non-rich people who buy and sell houses in the GTA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/43rd_Canadian_federal_election

#142 dosouth on 07.23.17 at 11:07 pm

#10 Howard on 07.23.17 at 4:30 pm- …” Btw this is probably also why nobody from the developed world wants to immigrate to Canada. There isn’t a single first world country in which you would have a worse deal than Canada, in my opinion.

#21 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:12 pm — ….”From the outside the picture becomes pretty clear:
A dark, unhealthy labor camp in the tundra, owned by really stupid owners who want their fair share rents no matter what. In banking, telecom, services, governments.

Where you can f..k every that is moving and be proud of it.”

And this why they’re tripping over themselves, investing millions in non-existent companies, bringing over families, claiming some type of “danger” – because it is such a “backwards country”. Give your heads a shake.

#143 dosouth on 07.23.17 at 11:12 pm

#132 – 604renter on 07.23.17 at 10:36 pm

Yowza. 16 years of education. Working 80 to 100 hr work weeks for 5 years as a resident physician. Huge responsibility. 200k in the hole by the time I started working. I wont be the only Canadian leaving for the US. It took me less than 2 days to tie down a full time job there by the way. Sad. See ya Canada

——————————-
If you really exist, then my first question is why did you take so long to make the decision? You chose your career path, you chose to incur the costs and will now recover the value of that education…..but not apparently, on the backs of the taxpayer’s in Canada who paid for your basic education, huh, go figure?

#144 crossbordershopper on 07.23.17 at 11:20 pm

what t2 doesnt fully understand that risk taker buisness minded people dont just show up, they are actually born. crazy stressed, risking hard earned money, and people forget something. Canada really sucks to do business, there are people who are successfull. i know many many small business people who dont make any money, they have ben spinning their wheels for years. everyone gets paid and if something is left, they eat. i have seen marriages break down, kids get scattered, relationships because in laws invested in their stupid restaurant etc. most canadian small business dont make money. people think its some tax skim mechanism with kids and wives who stay home. there is some truth to some consulting business where income sprinkling above third party comparable rates, but what are we talking 5 grand, 10 grand in extra tax. twenty grand. like really t2, you risk loosing a hard working businessman who hires people, spins the economic wheel for you, and risk loosing him. lets say 10% of people leave, they are the winners, the risk takers, the tax payers etc, all Canada will be left with is bumbs, disabled, welfare, low productive pot smoking kids who think if i show up im worth 15 bucks plus employer contributions. i wouldnt like to be such a risk taker and an ambitious person in canada you will be disapointed, because millions of canadians are waiting for your hard work to pay for them. yes, you can cheat the system, many are going to do it, go to the usa, and come back to visit the doctor, family and friends, ontario is great in the summertime, to visit only. who wants to live here.
long discussion, but i didnt vote for this, my dad didnt come here for this, they didnt even have national healthcare for my brother back in 64. its all free, for some, yes, for others, a lifetime of work for the accumulation of what, a house, and a couple grand a year between a little rrsp saved up and some goverment pension. you can be there in 5 years in florida. paid off house, couple grand a month pension from savings and ss from the usa. lower taxes, better weather, more opportunity, and honestly nice people. canadians are really cold people your neighbour doesnt even say hi here. in the us the lady next door came over with a bund cake and cookies, like what the \f. i thought she was a johova or something, no just a neighbour, it definitely wastn canada.

#145 Fake News Again on 07.23.17 at 11:22 pm

So as usual, Govt does ZERO to control the size of itself. The huge salaries it pays to itself. The benefits it pays to itself. The pensions it pays to itself. All of which comes from a dwindling taxpayer.

Good luck with that T2 the one term PM.

And funny how you never ever hear about “cutting” the size of Govt. Never.

#146 InvestorsFriend on 07.23.17 at 11:30 pm

A Reply
#107 A Reply to #41 InvestorsFrien on 07.23.17 at 9:13 pm
“… I am never going to click on any of your links.

“… those probably extremely rare [bonds] that can be redeemed by the investor (puttable).”

Puttable bonds are retractable by the bondholders. Callable bonds are redeemable by the issuer. Of course, you’d know that had you clicked on any of the links. :)

Bonds and bond ETFs are not valued the way you think they are! Go back and look at the attached links.

*****************************************
Whatever, redeemable and retractable are ambiguous terms since it is not immediately clear who has the right the issuer of the holder so I don’t bother with such terms and the use of such ambiguous terms is annoying.

The bigger point is I was talking about regular bonds which are probably 99% of the market and furthermore my MAIN point that investors as a population are powerless to pull money out of bonds simply by trading with each other (so called capital outflows) applies to every asset class.

I did not say anything or imply anything about how bonds or ETFs are valued.

If you disagree with my main point, try saying so.

#147 Ben on 07.23.17 at 11:33 pm

Family doctor here. Incorporated. Mid 30s one kid. 2.6 million net worth. Part salaried, but also incorporated. I just will pay off this mortgage asap now. And then guess what, I already have enough to live on as we are super frugal (one car, bus or bike, etc). We’ll just sit on the sidelines and live in our mortgage free house without moving up. Not gonna contribute to this mess of a market. I’ll cut back on my clinic time, since there won’t be any point in having a corporation since 2/3 of what I bill will be taken away from me (yes, for that 30 dollar visit, 10 dollars go to overhead, and 1/2 will go to taxes so I’ll get 10 bucks for spending 15 minutes with a patient, multiply that by 4 and that’s 40 bucks an hour). Instead of slaving away to buy a bigger house I don’t need and contribute to the lawyers, and realtors, I’ll just not work that much. Easy peasy. Thanks T2

#148 Blobby on 07.23.17 at 11:35 pm

I’m in same boat as guy in story.. and I’m not rich.. but some years I make a fair whack of money, and some years, not so much.

Being able to invest inside company meant I could pay myself on low income years…

Sigh.. but yes, it’s to stop rich people, etc etc..

#149 I Forget on 07.23.17 at 11:47 pm

re – #5 Felix on 07.23.17 at 4:14 pm

Wanna bet?

#150 MF on 07.23.17 at 11:50 pm

604 renter

A ton of my friends with straight A+’s, volunteer work, and great personalities were turned down by medical schools in Canada. The long schooling is a privilege and most of it is subsidized by the evil government you want to abandon. In a world where most have zero job security or benefits and make 45k, the schooling and debt is worth it with a guaranteed high paying job resulting.

In the US being a doctor is different that in Canada. You have to market yourself there and it’s not easy.

MF

#151 Francis on 07.23.17 at 11:51 pm

For all the high income earners, incorporate, self employed, doctors, dentists, etc. that voted for T2, I got a story for you. Read and learn.

Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, “Why have you done this to me?” And the snake answered, “Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake.”

#152 MF on 07.23.17 at 11:53 pm

#145 Ben

2.6 mil net worth + complains = do not care an iota.

MF

#153 Fake News Again on 07.23.17 at 11:54 pm

#133 bring_it_on on 07.23.17 at 10:36 pm
#6 (Mike)

Garth, I know you hate it – but don’t blame T2. He is just cutting out what folks were misusing I.e. Paying fake wages to family who don’t work for that supposed corporations.

It’s all about fairness, Not about taxing the rich and all those complainers. I am rich too by those standards and why am I paying more taxes than same amount rich who are able to incorporate. Good job T2.

———————————–

I fully agree with Mike. My wife and I bring in 350K annual from working our tails off over the past 25 years at the University (and we love our jobs and are dedicated to education). We both grew up in a very blue collar pro-union families, where there was just enough resources to provide food on the table. The idea of making a level playing field for ALL members of society and valuing increased funding in education and job training is ingrained deeply in us. No special deals for parasitic “developers” and “investors” (both foreign and domestic) who make our major cities unaffordable for our kids. No special Tax deals or tricky accounting for those who can “incorporate” to avoid taxes. Taxes should be progressive (we are happy to pay even more) but no “special groups” should be immune or be able to avoid their fair share. I am not at all worried if some doctors move to the U.S. due to a perceived Tax burden. There are always MANY more top students that are now just below the entrance line to medical school (at least at my university). There needs to be a step towards equality in our society. Bring it on T2…

____________________________________________

Says the HIGHLY paid HIGHLY benefited HIGHLY pensioned Public Sector Worker……we are duuumed in Canada as private sector workers unless there is some equality and cuts in the size of Govt.

#154 Ponzius Pilatus on 07.23.17 at 11:55 pm

DELETED

#155 For those about to flop... on 07.24.17 at 12:11 am

#115 LS in Arbutus on 07.23.17 at 10:55 pm

Flop, this one is out of my ‘hood, but popped up on my facebook feed so I took a peek. E-value BC shows it having *just* been sold on June 21st, *2017* and now it’s relisted. Must be cold feet?

4443 Glencanyon Drive, North Vancouver.
http://www.steveburk.ca/ActiveListings.php/Details/444/4443-glencanyon-drive-north-vancouver-bc#viewdetail

Listed: $2,399,000
Last sold June 21, 2017: $2,241,500
Assessed: $1,785,000 but there have been lots of apparent renos

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAyODdRNg==

/////////////////////

Hey LS,got it.Thanks.

Put it in the Pink folder and we’ll see how she goes.

Could be a a Pink Pumpkin case in the fall…

M43BC

#156 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 12:18 am

#129 NoName on 07.23.17 at 10:25 pm
@ #104 New Canadian on 07.23.17 at 9:00 pm

do you mind where did you’ve come from, let me try to guess UK.


One of the Nordic countries

#157 akashic record on 07.24.17 at 12:21 am

Income tax headaches?

Work for the United Nations.

https://careers.un.org/lbw/home.aspx?viewtype=SAL

“Tax exemption

Salaries, grants and allowances paid by the United Nations are normally exempt from income tax.”

You can develop migration solutions to save the economic growth of the world – and enjoy income tax-free life.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-23/shocking-un-document-2000-exposes-global-migration-replacement-solution-developed-wo

“Population growth is responsible for the majority of GDP growth…so a downturn in population growth matters…particularly when population growth shifts from wealthy or developing nations to the poorest. I’m not describing something that may happen in the future…I’m describing what has already happened that is continuing to send progressively larger tsunamis swamping the world economy and has the central bankers doing everything and anything to try to sustain the unsustainable.

Which means, as Econimica’s Chris Hamilton recently noted, the next business cycle recession will be unending and is very likely to run years into decades and perhaps a century or more. A declining population already indebted with record debt and zero interest rates will consume less…meaning overcapacity and excess inventories will never be fully cleared before the next downturn…and on and on and on.”

#158 Dolce Vita on 07.24.17 at 12:27 am

#104 New Canadian

If you are talking about N. Europe (“Paesi Freddi” in Italian – and we don’t just mean the weather), I would tend to agree with you.

In Italy, yes, jobs scarce, GDP barely positive for years, yet we are happy overall…why 400 million of you international tourists came here in the first 4 months of this year – apparently for our culture, cuisine and environment.

You could not make me go back to Canada for its weather, not even to smug YVR where you feel like a fern in a forest in the winter being constantly misted.

Ireland? Are you kidding me. Have you been there? The people are wonderful but the food is hideous and there is not much to see and do other than admire how green their Isle is (you go there for the wonderful Irish, expect no more than that).

All these nature spots in Canada you can’t get too unless you are a drone with extended life batteries. They make for pretty tourism photos, fat chance of getting there. And who wants to go to some hinterland where there all of 5 people, most of them snooty at your invasion of their space, in the first place? I love crowds. You get to meet some of the most interesting people from all over the World.

We have 7,500 km of coastline, all of it you can get to and plenty, loads of natural beauty (e.g., Ligurian coast) where there are few people as well – try Puglia (the heel of Italia), from Taranto all around the heel back up to Bari. Mostly beaches, great food, great people, rock beaches, beaches with nobody there, developed groomed beach and the list goes on – on yes, did I forget the history and food there?

You are from N. Europe indeed (probably why you vacation in Italia).

Sorry, Italy has horse races older than Canada (Il Palio).

BTW, if you get hurt here…enjoy a #2 WHO ranked healthcare system (smug Canada #30).

No thanks, staying here for now.

#159 paulo on 07.24.17 at 12:42 am

#12
hey why not bet large buy a pair what the hell all in,take out a heloc to keep the audi lease payments current,and a debt financed life style !
enjoy it while you can,life is to short deal with the reality of a steepening correction later you will have plenty of company to commiserate with.

#160 Dolce Vita on 07.24.17 at 12:46 am

There is a difference between a CCPC small business owner and a contractor. I have done both.

A CCPC small business ownerpays taxes, contributes to the livelihood of others by providing employment and to the wealth of the country. I agree, they should not be taxed as severly as employees and given some tax breaks. What they do needs encouragement for those not willing to take on risk.

This is quite different than a CCPC contractor. To me, when I was doing it, it was never nothing more than a tax dodge and preferable to the tax treatment of being self-employed where the “write-offs” you get are a pittance.

It is ridiculous that a CCPC consisting of one income earner can dodge taxes by employing their stay at home spouse and their K-9 children to avoid paying taxes. It is a tax loophole that needs closing. Nothing more than taking advantage of the tax system.

For those envious of CCPC small business owners with actual employees, try meeting payroll every 2 weeks as I had to – people depending upon you for their livelihood.

Life will take on a whole new meaning for you then.

#161 Dee on 07.24.17 at 12:54 am

Who else thinks Ross Kay is an irritating man?

If you tell him yogurt is white, he’ll argue it’s black

——————-

What an annoying man. He”ll just say “wrong” without giving a thought/rebuttal. I understand he wants to sell info but like, try to hook/intrigue people with a bit more

#162 steerage steward on 07.24.17 at 12:57 am

Garth is scaring you away from owning. There has never been a better time to buy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCUWlB34rC0

#163 Saraya grewal on 07.24.17 at 1:15 am

“22” Bill Grable.

Thank goodness there are other people out there that see what is happening in vancouver. Most people are so clueless or just happy because they feel like they are millionaires because their vancouver townhouse is now worth $1.3 million. Our governments have allowed real estate to be sold as a commodity.

#164 Saraya grewal on 07.24.17 at 1:29 am

Oh yes JT is way off the mark Increasing Taxes on productive professionals and ignoring those who choose to live in Canada but earn their income offshore resulting in little or no income tax being paid. This man only knows how to blab about the positive impact of globalization, but ignores the inequality it creates. The next successsful leader will understand that open global markets are good but only when implemented properly and equitably.

#165 Sir James on 07.24.17 at 1:33 am

As an IT contractor who has been doing so as a sole proprietor for years, this is a nothing burger to me. But I bill less than $30k a quarter.

#166 Nonplused on 07.24.17 at 1:37 am

#151 Fake News Again

If I understand your post correctly I think you have it correct. Until we can get government employees that earn $350,000 a year with pension and benefits on top to stop seeing the guy who mows their lawn as the problem we have a huge problem.

#167 Animal Psychologist on 07.24.17 at 1:40 am

You silly people. When there isn’t enough food in the cage to go around the rats simply start eating each other. That’s what’s happening, and that’s what this is all about.

#168 Tony on 07.24.17 at 2:01 am

Peak house is back relisted on mls.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18442844/18947-MCCOWAN-RD-East-Gwillimbury-Ontario-L0G1M0-Rural-East-Gwillimbury

The guy pulled his mls listing when the guy two doors down sold his house for $410,000 early this year before the market tanked.

It was on mls at $1,050,000. The market value of this house is somewhere around $500,000

#169 diharv on 07.24.17 at 2:07 am

Commented on this before but got no response . Why all the angst about the taxation of investment income earned within a CCPC ? The tax rate on investment income earned inside a corporation is taxed at an average rate of 47% . It is not taxed at the same rate as active business income . Then it’s taxed again at the personal level if taken out as salary , bonus or dividend . SO WHAT IS THE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE THAT WE AS CCPC OWNERS ARE SUPPOSEDLY ENJOYING WITH RESPECT TO THIS PART OF THE RULE CHANGE ? The income sprinkling aspect and the finagling of salary into capital gains I could care less about those changes but I fail to see how anything will change with the investment income aspect of the new bill. Thanks for reading.

#170 Phily on 07.24.17 at 2:07 am

#12
Summer enjoy it, hit the beach, water, the patio, have a life or walk someone’s dog.
Be patient, or did you miss the crap with T2, finance Minister, buff and H

#171 Oft deleted and much maligned but always honest stock picker on 07.24.17 at 2:09 am

Seriously….the IT contractors in Canada are the bottom of the barrel. They are the lowest paid, least creative, least innovative grunts on the line doing patch work without the big projects RSU’s or options. There is no upside to the career path unless you move to Europe or the US. Companies with satellite offices in Canada do only for the tax subsidies and cheap dollar labour…..you’re going nowhere. Average pay is under $80,000, fully taxed away to net less than half…..opposed to making double and more simply by leaving Canada. I am in Thailand where international companies have relocated thousands of western workers making real western wages because the corporate tax is a flat 15%……WOW…..can you imagine make $300 grand a year in a country where the cost of living is a quarter of Canada ? These companies pay more because they want the best hands on board and not have a government imposed regime to hire colour coordinated immigrants in exchange for subsidies. Even in Texas we made double just crossing the border and tax and overhead went down by half…..seriously. And WOW…..living in Texas is crazy fun…..and Bangkok…..amazing weather and beach resorts every weekend. BTW…EVERY WEEKEND IN CORPORATE THAILAND IS A LONG WEEKEND. If you’re locked into Canada…..you’ve got a screw loose……or you’re simply no good at what you do. T2 is screwing you and you vote for him? Great life lesson there…..it’ll come when you’re eating cat food and wondering where it all went wrong.

#172 Detyl Mons on 07.24.17 at 4:51 am

Garth

Or you could have just advised the guy to jump into a tutu and go dance in the streets…..more likely to get attention from the OM than by being a working stiff!

#173 Detyl Mons on 07.24.17 at 4:52 am

my bad, that was PM not OM….didn’t mean to get all transcendental about this!

#174 Andrewt on 07.24.17 at 6:27 am

#145 Ben

No wonder doctors have a such a bad rep these days for being rude, impatient and having no bedside manners. Helping people or contributing to the quality of life in the community don’t even register as motivations, it seems.

#175 A Reply to #51 the flopster/#71 M—F— on 07.24.17 at 6:57 am

I have to admit that you both made me smile! :)

“Where ignorance is bliss, / ‘Tis folly to be wise.”
— Thomas Gray

#176 -=jwk=- on 07.24.17 at 7:53 am

I’ve personally never heard of anyone in IT who voluntarily becomes a contractor. Usually they’re forced into it by the employer who wants to cheap out and doesn’t want a long-term employee. …….Your numbers are completely out of whack with what IT workers cost in the contemporary market, and with the poor state of the sector in Canada.

Now we know there is two industries Mark knows absolutely nothing about….

#177 Ann Collins on 07.24.17 at 7:54 am

#133 Bring it on
Your “devoted to education” public sector post made me nauseous. You don’t have a clue. Just where are all these people you are educating going to work? Let’s compare tax bills and contributions to society. My husband and I work at our CPCC 24/7 and provide 21 jobs. Taxes are getting out of control and costs keep escalating. We are paid last. #158 gets it and until you own your own business you never will. By the way, I am not complaining–it was our choice to start our own business and we chose to invest our after tax dollars into it—however, #133 don’t comment on things you know nothing about. The risk in capital and time that entrepreneurs and small business owners take on MUST be rewarded or the primary source of private sector jobs in this country will disappear. Quite frankly, you remind me of some of my neighbours–bitch about small business owners and then beg me to hire their teenagers for the summer and donate freebies to their charity golf tournaments (both things we do by the way). There-rant over.

#178 Kevin on 07.24.17 at 7:57 am

This is a certainty because everybody hates rich people (especially physicians, lawyers and financial advisors) and believes Canadians should be taxed the same as the typical MA in sociology who works at Starbucks.

Um… did I miss something? Does that barista at Starbucks get “a pension plan, matched RRSP contributions, profit-sharing, benefits, severance pay, retirement package, or paid vacations?” No? Then why shouldn’t they be taxed the same? What’s the difference, other than progressive marginal tax brackets? Why should the barista get reamed on tax day, but an FA be treated like a tax-exempt VIP?

A fee-based financial advisor cannot incorporate, has no benefits, paid vacation, pension or benefits and is taxed as an employee at the top marginal rate of 54% (if successful). So, yeah, you missed a lot. — Garth

#179 Doctor_Offspring on 07.24.17 at 8:18 am

@145 Dr. Ben;

Good for you – good income, live WELL within your means, and enjoy life, without needing to participate in the rat race.

My Dad was a GP; people look at the income, but do not look at the expenses (especially insurance! Nobody seems to mention THAT one).

There are many ways to give to society with your skills, without needing the financial and emotional stress that goes along with the “normal” way.

Living WELL beneath your means is a stress-free way of going through life (as our household is doing)

#180 Livin Large on 07.24.17 at 8:22 am

And another “fact vs reality” mythology: “Average pay is under $80,000, fully taxed away to net less than half…”.

Per the Statscan data I posted here last week, the median “FAMILY” income in Ontario in 2015 was just under $80K so while the $80K for IT contractors may indeed bema fact, that doesn’t even remotely evidence them being egregiously under paid as a group.

An individual earning $80K isn’t poorly paid, they’re statistically in the collective top tier of earners in Canada.

Maybe you think IT contractors are a group entitled to hire incomes, that’s your perogative but if you think IT contractors averaging $80K per year individually are an oppressed group then you are factually incorrect.

#181 Casey on 07.24.17 at 8:25 am

#53
Garth,

It is particularly frustrating and unfair that this new scheme is retroactive, applying to distribution of income earned in prior years and retained. It is one thing to change the rules going forward on new income, it is another to penalize lawful choices made (with costs that otherwise would not have been incurred, like paying to set up the corporation, accountants to prepare books and returns, etc.) in the past on an expectation of how the RE could be distributed in the future.
********************************
Is this true? I have not heard about this being retroactive? If so, how far back will they go? I understood that it will start in tax year of 2018.

I believe he refers to the fact after-tax earnings accumulated in past years yet retained within the CCPC will, if invested, be taxed at a higher rate after these changes come into play. — Garth

#182 ArcticOutback on 07.24.17 at 8:33 am

#45 Mark on 07.23.17 at 6:00 pm –

Dr’s have erratic schedules including 24 hour call/etc that makes it hard for their spouses to have steady jobs. Plus many of their spouses do have meaningful roles in their businesses, with the sheer amount of admin and billing required alone.

Yes, being an MD is incredibly rewarding and is a ‘helping’ profession. But if the incentive to work harder/more is removed, many MDs will focus on a more normal life of 50 hour work weeks, reduced call, take vacation and an actual lunch break. This will all mean less access/longer waits. Remember, as self-employees practitioners they have the final say over their hours whether they work in a hospital or private practice.

#133 bring_it_on –

As someone working in Academia I wanted to congratulate you for hitting the jackpot in terms of job security, benefits, great salary and pension plus the ability to take plenty of vacation and sabbatical opportunities. You have the golden gig, please don’t come down on others.

#183 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 8:38 am

.#145 Ben on 07.23.17 at 11:33 pm
Family doctor here. Incorporated. Mid 30s one kid. 2.6 million net worth. Part salaried, but also incorporated…. (yes, for that 30 dollar visit, 10 dollars go to overhead, and 1/2 will go to taxes so I’ll get 10 bucks for spending 15 minutes with a patient, multiply that by 4 and that’s 40 bucks an hour).
_______________

So, Dr. Ben, Let’s see if I got this right, you’re complaining about having to pay more taxes, but somehow you’ve managed to amass a cool 2.6 Mil by your mid-30s on that 40 bucks an hour, right?

And you don’t see any disconnect in your complaint? Seriously, people like you practice medicine? Scary.

You cut-and-pasted his comments to twist the intent. His comment was that 2/3rds of his practice income goes to overhead and taxes. Despite that, his enterprise and frugality have allowed him to build wealth. How is any of that worthy of your cheap shot? You cannot build yourself up by tearing someone else down. — Garth

#184 MF on 07.24.17 at 8:39 am

Dolce Vita,

You are right Europe has some nice weather, sites to see and friendly people.

Doesn’t change the fact that the EU will collapse at some point and throw it all into disarray. The “free health care”, 6 weeks of vacation and everything that people tout about the EU is all unsustainable. This is in addition to the social unrest the continent is experiencing and which will only get worse. The ruling elite look like the scum of the earth.

People choose Canada for its political and social stability above all.

The EU has neither.

MF

#185 maxx on 07.24.17 at 8:44 am

#7 NoName on 07.23.17 at 4:21 pm

@#107 Renter’s Revenge! on 07.23.17 at 3:05 pm

“they gonna need lot more than happy meds, read about behavioral sink, people cant idle for long time because when they to we get what we have now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink…….”

This phenom clearly manifests in many sales-oriented “professions”….thereby necessitating what is commonly known as “regulation”.

“Ha – ha – ha, Ho – ho – ho – Ha – ha – ha -ha – ha
That’s how we laugh the day away, In the Merry Old Land of Oz!”

#186 MF on 07.24.17 at 8:44 am

#173 A Reply to #51 the flopster/#71 M—F

Pedantic Poster…..?

Is that you?

:)

Glad to hear it.

MF

#187 maxx on 07.24.17 at 9:02 am

#12 Real Estate Investor on 07.23.17 at 4:39 pm

“Going to some open houses in W08 part of the GTA this week. Most seem that they are listed high given the average price, and slightly lower than April averages for the area. Will try low balling with conditions and large deposit on the best house. If I get it, I will hold it empty and sell in October. But for sure I will cut the grass and keep the house looking respectable for all the nosey neighbours. I’ll get all the bills mailed to the house to make it look like I live there so I can claim it as my principal residence. All looks promising for a quick flip and profit.

Happy Housing Profit Everyone (whose a brave investor and not a bench warmer like Happy Housing Crash Guy….lol)”

Hey dawgs……I think we just found it.

#188 Ben on 07.24.17 at 9:10 am

So, Dr. Ben, Let’s see if I got this right, you’re complaining about having to pay more taxes, but somehow you’ve managed to amass a cool 2.6 Mil by your mid-30s on that 40 bucks an hour, right?

And you don’t see any disconnect in your complaint? Seriously, people like you practice medicine? Scary.

——-

Sorry, I dont apologize for being frugal. I dont apologize for not buying into rampant consumerism, for buying luxury vehicles or big houses and contributing to climate change. I don’t apologize for working 80 hour weeks amassing my wealth because I have no time to spend my money. And I don’t apologize for donating 100k last year to charity. I’ll just cut down my hours because T2 wants to take it all away.

And don’t judge my skills as a doctor. My patients love me. Just because I’m frugal in my personal life does not make me a bad doctor. I just don’t buy into the rampant consumerism that has gotten Canadians into so much debt and trouble. That’s what T2 is rewarding. I don’t find buying things rewarding.

#189 Spock on 07.24.17 at 9:16 am

#167 diharv

Most folks here (low-iq-millenial along with the $300-$350K salary earners) have no clue about what tax is paid on the investment.

All interest income is taxed at 52% or so from the first dollar. Dividend Income at 35% and Capital Gains at 26% (50% tax free).

Passive Investment income is not treated as business income and it never was.

All T2 and Bill are doing is to continue to wage the war of divisive politics based on income (rich vs poor – modern day robin hoods) and religion and from the looks of it – this kind of politics seems to be unfortunately working.

#190 Raging Ranter on 07.24.17 at 9:19 am

@#110 bigtowne, I was in Vermont twice last summer. The roads are extremely well maintained. By the way., Trump wasn’t president last summer. Those nice New England roads have nothing to do with him.

As an aside, I found it curious that New Hampshire – easily the lowest taxed jurisdiction in North America – had beautiful roads. But as soon as I crossed into Quebec – easily the highest taxed jurisdiction in North America – the highways were atrocious. That professor who commented earlier (who along.with his wife makes 350k and would be proud to pay even higher taxes) has some explaining to do. No doubt he will use the standard Canadian dodge “yabut we have healthcare”. The US government spends almost as much on healthcare programs per capita as we do. So that argument fails.So tell us Mr. Professor Who Thinks We Should Pay Even Higher Taxes, why do higher taxes in Canada fail to provide basic public infrastructure at least equal to that of the US?

My guess is that it excessive bureaucracy and social spending outside of healthcare is to blame. A government that runs around trying to right every wrong and fix every inequity simply doesn’t have enough resources left over to cover basic infrastructure, which by the way is a core function of government. Perhaps that explains your perverse desire to pay even higher taxes. Never mind, I think I just answered my own question.

#191 Spock on 07.24.17 at 9:20 am

#176 Kevin

Would be good to read up on whether IIROC advisors are allowed to incorporate. I have a friend who works for DS and its a sole proprietorship only.

and of course those part timers at WFG and Primerica have no money to incorporate after finishing their full timejob.

IIROC-regulated advisors may not incorporate. — Garth

#192 NoName on 07.24.17 at 9:23 am

#154 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 12:18 am

—-

I have noone in nordic land of nokia, but other two some friends some family there and noone is complaining.

I just dont get it on their average income they travel more often and to more exotic places than most well off people i know here.
you picked a wrong country buddy…

#193 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 9:23 am

#181 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 8:38 am
.#145 Ben on 07.23.17 at 11:33 pm
Family doctor here. Incorporated. Mid 30s one kid. 2.6 million net worth. Part salaried, but also incorporated…. (yes, for that 30 dollar visit, 10 dollars go to overhead, and 1/2 will go to taxes so I’ll get 10 bucks for spending 15 minutes with a patient, multiply that by 4 and that’s 40 bucks an hour).
_______________

So, Dr. Ben, Let’s see if I got this right, you’re complaining about having to pay more taxes, but somehow you’ve managed to amass a cool 2.6 Mil by your mid-30s on that 40 bucks an hour, right?

And you don’t see any disconnect in your complaint? Seriously, people like you practice medicine? Scary.
______________
You cut-and-pasted his comments to twist the intent. His comment was that 2/3rds of his practice income goes to overhead and taxes. Despite that, his enterprise and frugality have allowed him to build wealth. How is any of that worthy of your cheap shot? You cannot build yourself up by tearing someone else down. — Garth
_______________
Nonsense. I cut and pasted to reduce the blabbing. His full post is at #145 for everyone to judge for themselves. His point is clear, if incomprehensible: He doesn’t make enough. If you don’t see a disconnect between claiming to be making only 40 bucks/hour and in the same breath bragging about amassing a 2.6Mil fortune by mid-30s, then please explain it to all the other enterprising, frugal folks out there making the same wage who can only dream of such wealth accumulation.

I don’t need to build myself up, but Dr. Ben sure does need someone to tear him another asshole.

Jealousy is a base emotion. Try to curb it. — Garth

#194 Oot of thje Hoos on 07.24.17 at 9:28 am

I am with others doing the tax reduction, and being less productive. I started 8 years ago when I figured Harper is a liberal.

Garth, your concept of communism and capitalism existing side by side in Canada, with policies shaped for both sides (eg. CPP-OAS gov’t welfare atheism-communist central planning, and TFSA/CCPC-family-Christian-charity), does not have a strong enough philosophical basis to work out as a dual system. You see the commies want it all. There is no centre in politics and morality and philosophy.

You have to club them with rhetoric like calling them baby killing adulterous homosexualist social thieves, so they stop thinking they are the good guys with their “fairness” and “equality” injustices.

Liberals are selfish. That is why they want the government to be responsible for their families, not them being responsible for their families.

#195 Contrarian Coyote on 07.24.17 at 9:36 am

#169 Oft deleted and much maligned but always honest stock picker on 07.24.17 at 2:09 am
Seriously….the IT contractors in Canada are the bottom of the barrel. They are the lowest paid, least creative, least innovative grunts on the line doing patch work without the big projects RSU’s or options. There is no upside to the career path unless you move to Europe or the US. Companies with satellite offices in Canada do only for the tax subsidies and cheap dollar labour…..you’re going nowhere. Average pay is under $80,000, fully taxed away to net less than half…..opposed to making double and more simply by leaving Canada. I am in Thailand where international companies have relocated thousands of western workers making real western wages because the corporate tax is a flat 15%……WOW…..can you imagine make $300 grand a year in a country where the cost of living is a quarter of Canada ? These companies pay more because they want the best hands on board and not have a government imposed regime to hire colour coordinated immigrants in exchange for subsidies. Even in Texas we made double just crossing the border and tax and overhead went down by half…..seriously. And WOW…..living in Texas is crazy fun…..and Bangkok…..amazing weather and beach resorts every weekend. BTW…EVERY WEEKEND IN CORPORATE THAILAND IS A LONG WEEKEND. If you’re locked into Canada…..you’ve got a screw loose……or you’re simply no good at what you do. T2 is screwing you and you vote for him? Great life lesson there…..it’ll come when you’re eating cat food and wondering where it all went wrong.

===

I’m guessing policymakers are gambling that most Canadian IT contractors will be too locked into mortgages and settled family life to follow your example. It’s interesting though and great to hear another success story overseas. I’m 3 years back after a decade abroad and am getting that itch again to be honest. I just look around and see so many people locked into easy mode and get a little spooked thinking: is this all there is? Mortgages, leveraged lifestyles, HELOCs, credit cards, import car leases, etc, etc.

Be sure to get over to Singapore for visits as well: Raffles for drinks and street food in the outdoor markets.

#196 James on 07.24.17 at 9:41 am

#174 -=jwk=- on 07.24.17 at 7:53 am

I’ve personally never heard of anyone in IT who voluntarily becomes a contractor. Usually they’re forced into it by the employer who wants to cheap out and doesn’t want a long-term employee. …….Your numbers are completely out of whack with what IT workers cost in the contemporary market, and with the poor state of the sector in Canada.

Now we know there is two industries Mark knows absolutely nothing about….
…………………………………………………………………
Or do a Dr Smoking Man to get broomed. A very easy way to become a contractor. Actually who would have hired him full-time anyway?

#197 GFD on 07.24.17 at 9:50 am

If stealing 100% of the product of someone’s labor is slavery, at what percentage is it not slavery? And at what percentage is it theft instead of taxation?

#198 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 10:05 am

#182 MF on 07.24.17 at 8:39 am
Dolce Vita,

You are right Europe has some nice weather, sites to see and friendly people.

Doesn’t change the fact that the EU will collapse at some point and throw it all into disarray.
__________________________

MF, your really need to distinguish between “fact” and “opinion” before shooting your mouth off.

#199 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 10:10 am

#191 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 9:23 am
#181 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 8:38 am
.#145 Ben on 07.23.17 at 11:33 pm
You cut-and-pasted his comments to twist the intent. His comment was that 2/3rds of his practice income goes to overhead and taxes. Despite that, his enterprise and frugality have allowed him to build wealth. How is any of that worthy of your cheap shot? You cannot build yourself up by tearing someone else down. — Garth
_______________
Nonsense. I cut and pasted to reduce the blabbing. His full post is at #145 for everyone to judge for themselves. His point is clear, if incomprehensible: He doesn’t make enough. If you don’t see a disconnect between claiming to be making only 40 bucks/hour and in the same breath bragging about amassing a 2.6Mil fortune by mid-30s, then please explain it to all the other enterprising, frugal folks out there making the same wage who can only dream of such wealth accumulation.

I don’t need to build myself up, but Dr. Ben sure does need someone to tear him another asshole.

Jealousy is a base emotion. Try to curb it. — Garth

_______________________________

Hmmm….speaking of cheap shots.

#200 n1tro on 07.24.17 at 10:17 am

#24 Stan Broock on 07.23.17 at 5:20 pm

Mike and his income if real means he is a senior executive in a company. Nice and secure. When shit hits the fan at his workplace, he won’t take responsibility since shit always rolls downhill.

As for “fairness”…if I was making +$200K a year, I’d be glad to pay the full taxes on it regardless if the contracting professional pays less. In the grand scheme of things, paying taxes on a 6 figure income is the kind of problems you want.

#201 Stan Broock on 07.24.17 at 10:17 am

Couple working at University and making 350 k a year?

You would be making twice less in the private sector, if lucky to find a job at all. Enjoy the parasitic existence while it lasts.

————————————-
The problem in in the arbitrary nature of the determination of wage appropriateness.

Today is questioning family members, tomorrow – friends, next year they will tell you whom to hire.

Many small corporations use family members for general or specialized labour as needed, many on part time/as needed bases. You most likely would never be able to hire somebody to work flexible hours when needed (5 hours this week, 10 next) if the time when labour is needed varies greatly (convenience shop for example)

What if 1 year down the road the finance minister comes here and says that many companies in the construction industry employ friends who then work with no pay on their private houses?

Would Facebook and Microsoft ever existed in such retarded tax environment?

As I said – implement a modern family taxation where income splitting would not make any sense. Or flat tax rate.

#202 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 10:17 am

#130 Willy H on 07.23.17 at 10:29 pm

About 5 years ago I came the sad and rather pathetic conclusion that choosing to work in the private sector on a salary (in Canada) has to be one of the dumbest decisions of my adult life.

…Fully support T2’s initiatives to level the playing field.
____________________________

40 years ago kids were admonished not to become a Teacher or a Cop, yeah you get the job security, but the wages were crap.

Nowadays, our small town Ontario head Librarian makes 130K/year and retires at 55 with a fat pension. A plant Manager here gets ~80K per year with 25X the responsibility of a Librarian, and no DB pension or freedom 55.

BTW, T2 fully supports even more wages and benefits for Public sector workers, so he’ll be the last one to “level the playing field”. It’ll be more taxes required from the few decently employed Private sector Canadians that remain to fill the Public trough even higher.

I’ll be lucky to make it to retirement working in my Industry, a miracle really – if it happens. If not, I will have to make a career change probably at 55+ years old. That’s just not going to work out, I’ve seen too many in this boat trying to make it happen fail with some losing their marbles a little bit in the process.

Much better to have a long term exit plan:

No debt, and a decent diversified portfolio. My wife may not like it, but we could cruise 10 years to retirement without me working a career job no problemo.

#203 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 10:26 am

#141 dosouth on 07.23.17 at 11:12 pm

…you chose to incur the costs and will now recover the value of that education…..but not apparently, on the backs of the taxpayer’s in Canada who paid for your basic education, huh, go figure?
___________________________________________

Welcome to the real world – hope you stay a while…

#204 I am entitled to my entitlements on 07.24.17 at 10:28 am

#133: “My wife and I bring in 350K annual from working our tails off over the past 25 years at the University (and we love our jobs and are dedicated to education). We both grew up in a very blue collar pro-union families, where there was just enough resources to provide food on the table. The idea of making a level playing field for ALL members of society and valuing increased funding in education and job training is ingrained deeply in us. No special deals for parasitic “developers” and “investors” (both foreign and domestic) who make our major cities unaffordable for our kids. No special Tax deals or tricky accounting for those who can “incorporate” to avoid taxes. Taxes should be progressive (we are happy to pay even more) but no “special groups” should be immune or be able to avoid their fair share. I am not at all worried if some doctors move to the U.S. due to a perceived Tax burden. There are always MANY more top students that are now just below the entrance line to medical school (at least at my university). There needs to be a step towards equality in our society. Bring it on T2…”

Wow. Just wow. This comment is the epitome of the liberal elite.

Let me paraphrase: “I am one of the entitled few in this country that has job security, good work hours and conditions, benefits, sabbaticals, paid vacations, maternity leave, and pension plan. I also make $350,000 per year on top of all that. I believe that everyone else (ie. small business owners and their employees) should not only continue to subsidize my life, but to subsidize it even more. I am entitled to my entitlements.”

Hate to break it to you, but you are the “special group”.

Small businesses are not only predominantly owned by the “middle class”, they also provide the vast majority of jobs for all Canadians (71% of private sector jobs and 88% of new jobs, according to government statistics).

I think the 71% of people who work for a small business will disagree with you on who the “parasites” really are. The “special groups” are unionized workers and university educators. And large corporations (but don’t touch them or we wouldn’t have cash-for-access fundraisers!).

Maybe you should get a bit more “educated” about what a small business is.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/h_03018.html#point2-1

#205 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 10:31 am

#186 Ben on 07.24.17 at 9:10 am
So, Dr. Ben, Let’s see if I got this right, you’re complaining about having to pay more taxes, but somehow you’ve managed to amass a cool 2.6 Mil by your mid-30s on that 40 bucks an hour, right?

And you don’t see any disconnect in your complaint? Seriously, people like you practice medicine? Scary.

——-

Sorry, I dont apologize for being frugal. I dont apologize for not buying into rampant consumerism, for buying luxury vehicles or big houses and contributing to climate change. I don’t apologize for working 80 hour weeks amassing my wealth because I have no time to spend my money. And I don’t apologize for donating 100k last year to charity. I’ll just cut down my hours because T2 wants to take it all away.

And don’t judge my skills as a doctor. My patients love me. Just because I’m frugal in my personal life does not make me a bad doctor. I just don’t buy into the rampant consumerism that has gotten Canadians into so much debt and trouble. That’s what T2 is rewarding. I don’t find buying things rewarding.
______________________________________

You know what Ben, you sound like a troll. The top heavy whining rhetorical repetition sort of gives it away. And if you really are a GP, take a pill doc and chill. You’re crying a river about one percenters’ problems. Non-issue for most working folks.

#206 Skiffy on 07.24.17 at 10:34 am

Everyone should have a look at this page which lets you see trends and numbers per neighbourhood: http://www.shafquatarefeen.com/mls

#207 Tazi Bnu on 07.24.17 at 10:38 am

#57 Working stiff on 07.23.17 at 6:27 pm
What a joke, claiming your spouse as part owner and getting dividends to reduce his taxes. You say he’s a risk taker because he’s self employed corp. the spouse does nothing to help the business or contribute to its growth it’ll always be a man show. It’s his choice to do this arrangement for employment.
It maybe legal, but why should it be different from making making my dog a dependent and taking the child tax credit?
__________________________________________

Then why does the spouse get to claim half the business on divorce if they do nothing. You’re just salty that you never had the balls to risk it all.

#208 n1tro on 07.24.17 at 10:40 am

#50 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 07.23.17 at 6:06 pm
Where do you boomers think these poor ol Sears ladies will work now?

Want someone to blame? Start with the Millennial who took the top post having no real experience and high tailed it shortly afterwards.

http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/sears-canada-names-former-loblaw-exec-as-new-ceo/wcm/1241a6d5-48e1-4916-afbb-0f1fdd910e38

#209 NoName on 07.24.17 at 10:41 am

Question.

Why is that in last 45 days, cad gained almost 10% over usd. 85¢ dollar soon as second rate increase?

Anyone has any ides?

#210 Consumption vs Income on 07.24.17 at 10:43 am

@#145 Ben
My brother-in-law is also a doctor and Dr Ben’s comment is exactly correct.

He grosses about $250K/year.
After expenses, he takes home $150K/year before taxes. His wife stays at home with his 3 kids, and he does pay her some dividends.

And people miss the entire point. The salaried employee thinks “I earn $150K/year, why shouldn’t you pay the same tax?”

The point is, $150K is INADEQUATE compensation for what he does, the services he provides, the years of training and debt required to enter the profession. Incorporation and income sprinkling was designed, legally, as an INCENTIVE to accept under compensation for the work, hours, and risk taken.

[aside: it is true, some doctor specialists, like ophthalmologists, earn ridiculous fees, and this is a bone of contention within medicine, but that is a separate topic about fee-for-service]

My sister is always complaining about how much he works, including all the freebies, like
– teaching at the hospital
– helping out with research and trials
– sitting on committees
– attending (out-of-pocket) conferences for continuing education
– often seeing, for free, non-billable patients (i.e. out of province/country)
– managing the office – secretary hiring, leasing, computers, cleaning, supplies
– dealing with crazy patients and their families
who yell, complain, sue…
– handling insurance of all types – office, malpractice, overhead, liability

This is what they told me at dinner, and I agree, seeing how my office-colleague middle managers make about the same as him with far less stress.

They are going to either scale back or shift from non-billable hours to billable hours. That means:

* Do less call
and with less doctors doing this, guaranteed hospitals will have to find ways to compensate doctors to work overnight or answer a page in the middle of their kids soccer game or in the middle of a romantic datenight

* Reduce research activities or attending committees

* Scale back at the office, let go of one of their two employees (they have 1 full-time and 1 part-time)

* Overbook patients to reduce no-shows
Currently, he is respectful of patient times and doesn’t overbook. Gets two or three a day, but not a big deal because he has other non-billable work to do. But if he scales back, guarantee he’ll overbook to ensure no gaps. Don’t complain about your doctor always running late.

—–

@#34 MSM-Free Zone
“If you don’t like your job, then quit.”

Yes, they will do just that, by working less.

#211 Crickets on 07.24.17 at 10:52 am

#56 For those about to flop… on 07.23.17 at 6:26 pm

//////////////////////

You know what, I’ve been struggling to come up with a third option to ask the gang what I should call my Pink Posts when the fall comes around and so now hopefully I will get some feedback.

A) Pink Maple Leaves falling in Vancouver.

B)Pink Pumpkins being carved in Vancouver.

Or with your help

C) Pink Mushrooms being eaten in Vancouver.

Let’s have a look at the board.

Audience says…

M43BC

//////////

Crickets. I guess the audience is smaller than anticipated.

#212 Tazi Bnu on 07.24.17 at 10:52 am

#191 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 9:23 am
……….
Jealousy is a base emotion. Try to curb it. — Garth
__________________________________________
I believe the emotion is more envy than jealousy, which i think is far worse.

There’s an interesting story about an american lobster farmer. He was pulling in pots with a cousin, who was visiting, to his dock. He opened them to get the lobsters out, and his wife was calling for him, because he had a telephone call. He says to his cousin “Lets head in for a break then,” and starts to head over to the house. the cousin says “aren’t you worried about about the lobsters escaping?” “No, because they’re Canadian lobsters. If one gets close to escaping the others will pull him back in.” —- You know because it’s only “fair”

#213 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 10:54 am

#143 Fake News Again on 07.23.17 at 11:22 pm
So as usual, Govt does ZERO to control the size of itself. The huge salaries it pays to itself. The benefits it pays to itself. The pensions it pays to itself. All of which comes from a dwindling taxpayer.

Good luck with that T2 the one term PM.

And funny how you never ever hear about “cutting” the size of Govt. Never.
__________________________________

Let’s just cut through the BS and stop being surprised about our collective birdbrained governments. These here are the facts for the near foreseeable future:

1. Governments will get bigger and more expensive every year – this is evidently what Canadians want.

2. Deficits and Debt will grow larger every year, Canadians quickly halted the budgetary surplus Harper was headed for in 2015 by putting Trudeau in with a Majority. Canadians chose a dumbass over a meanie. This is what is important to Canadians 2015+.

3. Because of the above two points, taxes and fees will never stop increasing in order to cover the borrowing and spending orgy within all levels of Government.

4. Because of point #3, and because near 50% of average Canadian incomes is ALREADY siphoned off as taxes, very soon Government revenues will start dropping. If not already. Folks will stand only so much before doing something about it.

Where things go from here is reasonably predictable given the same type of dingbats running the show. That being some type of financial crisis followed by decades of austerity to right the ship. Either that or default along with destruction of the currency. It’ll be clear over the long haul which way we’ll end up going – I may even still be alive to see it too.

#214 TheDood on 07.24.17 at 10:56 am

#193 Contrarian Coyote on 07.24.17 at 9:36 am
AND
#169 Oft deleted and much maligned but always honest stock picker on 07.24.17 at 2:09 am

“…..is this all there is? Mortgages, leveraged lifestyles, HELOCs, credit cards, import car leases, etc, etc.”

LOL! I read your post and laughed. Unfortunately, the answer to your question is YES, that is all there is in Canada. I’ve been back 5 years after 15 years abroad and every single person I know in Canada lives and obsesses about the exact same things – mortgages, HELOCs, monthly truck payments, and the pension (if they’re lucky enough to have one)……a ridiculous way to live in my opinion.

Wife and I came back only to see the kids thru university. We’ve already planned our exit and are counting the days.

And for those of you on the fence about leaving Canada, do it and don’t even look back. Its the best decision you’ll ever make. There is more to life than mortgage, property, car payments and living in perpetual debt. There is tax free USD, beaches, warm weather, cheap travel, a great social scene, and great lifelong friendships to be made. Just do it!

#215 CJBob on 07.24.17 at 10:57 am

#108 Mark on 07.23.17 at 9:14 pm
I’ve personally never heard of anyone in IT who voluntarily becomes a contractor…There aren’t that many in-demand IT specialists. The job boards for IT specialists are largely empty these days.
__________________
Mark if you keep doing what you’ve always done you’ll keep getting what you’ve always got. I’ve got over 2 dozen contacts of people who worked for the big consulting firms and then went independent for the money and more importantly the freedom to pick their own assignments. I’m risk adverse and don’t like travel so I’ve stuck with full-time employment and a couple of years of consulting.

Step 1 – find an in demand skill. From 1995 until now one has been SAP consultant. I’m not up to date on what else is in demand right now but I know I can’t find anyone who knows IBM TM1 or IBM Cognos Analytics. Find a niche. If you’re chasing money make sure the skills are in demand by the banks and large profitable organizations.

Step 2 – develop a network of contacts, gain experience and guard your reputation. Reputation is everything.

Oh, Step 0 – spend less time on message boards complaining about how tough it is out there. This is getting you nowhere. Jobs are found from contacts, not job boards. The fact that you haven’t learned this illustrates your problem. Remember George Costanza – do the opposite of ever instinct you’ve ever had.

#216 Consumption vs Income on 07.24.17 at 10:57 am

I feel we have a cultural problem.
We should be taxing consumption, vs income/savings.

Why don’t we do this? Because we are in a capitalism economy-based market. We need consumers to spend. Put a tax, and they spend less.

Well, hello, tax income, and you work less.

And who are the hardest workers? I am an IT contractor and I work far more efficiently and harder than my full-time colleagues. My brother-in-law the doctor works far harder than the average $150K/year employee.

Corporation is the incentive that justifies our compensation at similar salaries.

We love Canada, we’re not leaving to the US like some say… but guarantee there will be shifts in our professional behaviors. What those are, will remain to be seen. Maybe we’ll work less… maybe we’ll demand more money. We have specialized skills after-all. Maybe we’ll be too pissed and be less generous to charities. It’s all lose-lose.

#217 BillyBob on 07.24.17 at 10:58 am

#109 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 9:16 pm
98 BillyBob on 07.23.17 at 8:56 pm

Brilliant post. And the Smokey Off the wall comment.

Proudly off the wall here. Take those as compliments. Who wants to be normal in an insane world full of people with serious mental disorders.

===================================

Was intended as a compliment, 100%. Garth’s posts are great, of course, but the comments would be dull dull dull without your contributions.

Besides, pretty much my entire life’s goal is to be the guy sitting on a barstool all day, every day, of some tropical beach bar you own. Just counting the days.

#218 saskatoon on 07.24.17 at 11:07 am

#195 GFD

dude…i don’t have to take all the money in your wallet for it to be theft, right?

any amount taken involuntarily is theft.

#219 BillyBob on 07.24.17 at 11:08 am

@New Canadian

Leaving any Scandinavian country for CANADA! hahah! is a serious downgrade.

Canada basically IS Sweden, without the beautiful women. And I’d take Copenhagen over any city in Canada, any day. I was only able to visit Oslo on layover so couldn’t get a good feel for the place but I liked what I saw. Yep, expensive as hell, but you seem to actually get something for what you pay.

I realize people move around for different reasons, you meet someone from a different country, fall in love, move there to be with them, fine. But don’t try and sell us on some idea that people are clamouring to leave Northern Europe to relocate to Canada en masse, that’s bullsh$t. For Norwegians, it would mean becoming a lot poorer instantly.

#220 Oft deleted and much maligned stock picker on 07.24.17 at 11:13 am

Contrarian Coyote 193….thx. I go to Singapore every time there’s a seat sale among the twenty or more airlines that compete openly for business in this region.

I go to places like Singers, Penang and Kota Kinabalu on foodie trips…..a popular weekend past time here. Bali is $200 return from BKK.

Young people should be aware of opportunities lost by staying in Canada locked into an alligator mortgage. Most companies include international schools for families as part of the relocation package. This is a region of higher income , starting bonuses, retention bonuses, company stock option, rapid career advancement and over the top pay compared to Canada. Corporate taxes and cost of living are a pittance of what you pay in Canada.

For older experienced pros who specialize in recruiting for ex etc make serious dough ray mee. It’s a great way to supercharge your retirement fund. Bottom line ….get out of Canada now! You’re in demand here when you can’t get an interview in Canada if your over 40. Even governments here are hiring ex pat experts. Canada only hires off a politically correct list and look at what a mess our government service departments are in.

BTW……Yeeeeeeeeehawwwwsww! Conservatives merge in AB. This will drive perception back into the oil
Patch. Obviously the NDP and Trudeaus carbon tax is toast. AB will rise again. The new Conservative Phoenix will save Canada’s energy industry. Canada will save itself from the teeth of defeat under Yrudeau as America did by booting the Obama Malaise to the curb .

Anyone considering watching Gores Inconvieniant sequel….the nonsense he’s selling was banned in Britain and specifically banned from children’s showing because of the falsehoods contained. Why am I bringing this up? Because Trudeau is trying to save Obamas legacy as an anti Trump agent and push the globalist wealth distribution model. When Trudeau is gone in tiwo years then climate change will die entirely in North America and the American confidence will once again result in a tsunami of new money into AB. The oil patch is at a historic low…. time to go long.

#221 NoName on 07.24.17 at 11:19 am

#209 Crickets on 07.24.17 at 10:52 am
#56 For those about to flop… on 07.23.17 at 6:26 pm

//////////////////////

You know what, I’ve been struggling to come up with a third option to ask the gang what I should call my Pink Posts when the fall comes around and so now hopefully I will get some feedback.

A) Pink Maple Leaves falling in Vancouver.

B)Pink Pumpkins being carved in Vancouver.

Or with your help

C) Pink Mushrooms being eaten in Vancouver.

Let’s have a look at the board.

Audience says…

M43BC

//////////

Crickets. I guess the audience is smaller than anticipated.

—-

no krikcets,

https://goo.gl/forms/Oi7lRAZkEUxBLZD82

#222 saskatoon on 07.24.17 at 11:30 am

also, conventional doctors are one of the leading CAUSES of death in the western world.

iatrogenic.

best to pay them more violently appropriated money, hmm?

#223 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 11:40 am

#156 Dolce Vita on 07.24.17 at 12:27 am
#190 NoName on 07.24.17 at 9:23 am

—-

I have noone in nordic land of nokia, but other two some friends some family there and noone is complaining.

I just dont get it on their average income they travel more often and to more exotic places than most well off people i know here.
you picked a wrong country buddy…

Re #156 Dolce Vita & #190 NoName: Italy is fantastic, no doubt about it. Northern Europe as well. I also like France, Spain and Portugal a lot. Incredible diversity within the countries themselves, superb architecture as well as natural sites, cuisine, great infrastructure, truly universal healthcare etc. etc.

One thing I am not so sure is how do these countries work for foreigners / immigrants and their descendants, and not only from other privileged Western European countries, but from places at which natives might look down a bit so to speak (from both within the EU and beyond).

Judging from my experience of extensively studying and working in these countries as well as in Canada, Canada is incomparably better for social mobility of newcomers who are willing to settle down and make a long term commitment. T2s will come and go, but the welcoming nature of Canada for newcomers will stay the same as well as the long-term social mobility for immigrants and their descendants willing to work hard as opposed to just waiting for government handouts.

Of course if you are a born Canadian and want to get a bit more sophistication in your life than can ever be found in most places here and minimize the risk to always discuss RE, by all means explore Europe as much as you can short-/long-term. As I mentioned in my previous post, you take relatively little risk given your option to always return to Canada if things do not go as planned no questions asked. Not everybody has that luxury to return to an always stable country of origin offering no less than 10 provinces to choose from with correspondingly differing options for employment / life-style.

So that we do not just argue subjectively, here are some data from the Economist. Scroll down to the PISA graph, it is quite revealing. Not even in the super egalitarian place like Finland with guaranteed quality education for every single child regardless of child’s background / socio-economic status / location in Finland they do not quite succeed.
https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21662597-asylum-seekers-economic-migrants-and-residents-all-stripes-fret-over-their-place-looking

Canada has tons of issues and it tends to market itself on the world’s stage as a picture perfect society, which it is not of course. But to say that it is not an interesting place for Europeans to explore in the short-/long-term is a bit of an exaggeration, especially considering the very European history of modern Canada.

#224 n1tro on 07.24.17 at 11:40 am

#145 Ben

$2.6 mil net worth being a doctor.

Congrats. You deserve it.

#225 Howard on 07.24.17 at 11:46 am

#156 Dolce Vita on 07.24.17 at 12:27 am

I live in Paris and admire many of the things you describe.

However, you seem to be focusing on things that beyond anyone’s control, and it only serves to make you look foolish. Canada is cold? Canada is big? Vancouver is rainy? Who knew? Italy is much older than Canada? Wow, didn’t know that!

Canada has immense problems (electing a government because its airhead leader has great hair, first among them) but weather, architecture, access to beaches….that’s mostly subjective. Not everyone fancies a roasting hot Rome summer.

#226 Desperation and misery on 07.24.17 at 11:50 am

I make 26k a year working retail, I have no new job prospects and just turned 36. I think doctors and other high paid professionals deserve the money they make, but I dont think these reductions would make much difference to their lifestyle. Want to know pain? come live my life…

#227 Frustrated Incorporated Guy on 07.24.17 at 11:57 am

#179

This is #53 responding to your question and Garth’s comment about my reference to retroactivity.

#53
Garth,

It is particularly frustrating and unfair that this new scheme is retroactive, applying to distribution of income earned in prior years and retained. It is one thing to change the rules going forward on new income, it is another to penalize lawful choices made (with costs that otherwise would not have been incurred, like paying to set up the corporation, accountants to prepare books and returns, etc.) in the past on an expectation of how the RE could be distributed in the future.
********************************
Is this true? I have not heard about this being retroactive? If so, how far back will they go? I understood that it will start in tax year of 2018.

I believe he refers to the fact after-tax earnings accumulated in past years yet retained within the CCPC will, if invested, be taxed at a higher rate after these changes come into play. — Garth

***

No, that is not what I was getting at. In fact, I had thought before the proposed changes that passive income earned by CCPC was taxed at the top marginal rate.

Instead, my point was directed at the distribution of RE themselves (as opposed to passive income on RE).

Suppose in 2016 someone set up a CCPC and with an ability to send dividends to persons other than the principal (aka “sprinkling”). The plan was not to necessarily to sprinkle immediately as CCPC earns income, but is a longer play. Keep income in the CCPC as RE, invest and pay out the RE later as dividends as the need arises (kids attaining 18 and going to university, parents needing help in retirement or what have you, spouse no longer working, emergency for another family member …). There were costs in 2016 to set this up and ongoing costs for accountants that would not have been required absent incorporation, i.e. these are forgone costs to get a chance at potential future sprinkling.

Now after these costs are incurred, T2 and Bill come along and say, “starting in 2018, you cannot sprinkle the income earned before 2018 (except at the highest marginal rate in hands of recipients)”. That has retroactive impact and is unfair.

Contrast if T2 and Bill said “starting in 2018, if you start a CCPC, or your existing CCPC earns income, here are the rules: no sprinkling”. That may suck , but at least you know the rules going in – before incurring costs to set up the CCPC and keep it going.

#228 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 12:00 pm

#195 GFD on 07.24.17 at 9:50 am
If stealing 100% of the product of someone’s labor is slavery, at what percentage is it not slavery? And at what percentage is it theft instead of taxation?
_________

In a free country, each individual decides that level for himself.

For example, would you go to work if 90% of your pay went to the government? Probably not, how about 80%? Probably not – 70%? Slim chance, 60%? Nope… etc. On it goes until you decided the taxes are not so bad that you net what you think you should for your personal effort.

According to Laffer Curve theorists, the number where tax revenue drops off permanently is north of 60% (that’s total taxation) in the developed world.

#229 MF on 07.24.17 at 12:14 pm

#196 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 10:05 a

Hey no need to take it personally. It’s well known the EU simply lurches from crisis to crisis. Some countries have benefited from the EU and others have not. It’s not my opinion but is fact.

MF

#230 Doctor_Offspring on 07.24.17 at 12:16 pm

@186 Ben –

No need to apologize, sounds like you know the meaning of life, and the value of money.

You are one of the few who do.

From reading mrmoneymustache.com, sounds like Peter Adney no longer says that he is independently wealthy, but that he runs a construction business, because (paraphrasing) people just don’t comprehend the independently wealthy part of it.

Keep going, don’t look back at those poor souls here (and elsewhere) who can not comprehend how you do it.

(p.s. No fancy car for me, despite my income. My bicycle does fine, as does public transport – no need to find parking or get stuck in traffic! I don’t think the general population will EVER learn what you know about life)

#231 Leo Trollstoy on 07.24.17 at 12:21 pm

No need to cry too hard for the incorporated IT professional making bank all these years. The will simply transition to a high paying corporate job with benefits and a DC pension. The fact that some of my friends would forfeit the latter in favour of the former tells me something about how much bank they were making.

Going forward tech is the place to be.

Assuming you can’t get a gig in for-profit healthcare of course ;)

Love Canada!

#232 Leo Trollstoy on 07.24.17 at 12:25 pm

Physicians are already moving to add for-profit non-medical/aesthetic options in order to counter the government. This has been happening for awhile and will simply accelerate.

And do you think staff physicians at MedCan and Cleveland Clinic have been billing more or less over time?

Exactly.

#233 n1tro on 07.24.17 at 12:33 pm

#224 Desperation and misery on 07.24.17 at 11:50 am
I make 26k a year working retail, I have no new job prospects and just turned 36. I think doctors and other high paid professionals deserve the money they make, but I dont think these reductions would make much difference to their lifestyle. Want to know pain? come live my life…

Going after the doctors or anyone else won’t make a difference in your life…you are still going to be poor.

So why is Trudeau doing this instead of giving low wage earners tax credits so they have a chance to get out of the bottom rung?

Votes, money to spend on idiotic initiatives, a sense that he is “helping” Canadians. Everyone should truly reflect on what Trudeau has done for you come election time.

#234 NoName on 07.24.17 at 12:36 pm

#221 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 11:40 am

Now that you explained this to me, and i’ll just accept that its ok for Canada to be country of convenience for who ever…

Why would someone have best interest for Canada when he/she does not have skin in the game. Easy fix for Canada, 1 citizenship is what i’m saying.

#235 Eks dee Sipal on 07.24.17 at 12:54 pm

You cannot build yourself up by tearing someone else down. — Garth

While I understand the intent of your statement, it does seem to contradict the experience of history.

Central banks (=ideally you and I, the people, but of course, in practice, this isn’t the case at all) create money out of thin air, and then lend it to the commercial banks. These unnecessary middle men then lend it back to us, profiting a nice spread for doing basically nothing except place us ‘in debt’ forever. One brilliant commenter (#58 Looney Baloney) above alluded to this. This is the scam in a nutshell.

#236 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 1:01 pm

#132 – 604renter on 07.23.17 at 10:36 pm

Yowza. 16 years of education. Working 80 to 100 hr work weeks for 5 years as a resident physician. Huge responsibility. 200k in the hole by the time I started working. I wont be the only Canadian leaving for the US. It took me less than 2 days to tie down a full time job there by the way. Sad. See ya Canada
______________________________________

It would need to be a giant pile of cash for this dog to try his hand at this craziness.

Massive pile.

#237 IT Contactor on 07.24.17 at 1:11 pm

#169 Oft deleted and much maligned but always honest stock picker on 07.24.17 at 2:09 am
Seriously….the IT contractors in Canada are the bottom of the barrel. They are the lowest paid, least creative, least innovative grunts on the line doing patch work without the big projects RSU’s or options. There is no upside to the career path unless you move to Europe or the US. Companies with satellite offices in Canada do only for the tax subsidies and cheap dollar labour…..you’re going nowhere. Average pay is under $80,000, fully taxed away to net less than half…..opposed to making double and more simply by leaving Canada. I am in Thailand where international companies have relocated thousands of western workers making real western wages because the corporate tax is a flat 15%……WOW…..can you imagine make $300 grand a year in a country where the cost of living is a quarter of Canada ? These companies pay more because they want the best hands on board and not have a government imposed regime to hire colour coordinated immigrants in exchange for subsidies. Even in Texas we made double just crossing the border and tax and overhead went down by half…..seriously. And WOW…..living in Texas is crazy fun…..and Bangkok…..amazing weather and beach resorts every weekend. BTW…EVERY WEEKEND IN CORPORATE THAILAND IS A LONG WEEKEND. If you’re locked into Canada…..you’ve got a screw loose……or you’re simply no good at what you do. T2 is screwing you and you vote for him? Great life lesson there…..it’ll come when you’re eating cat food and wondering where it all went wrong.

===
Completely Agree with you.

I’m an IT Project contractor in Canada in the 2% club because I’ve been able to deliver value and companies pay for performance, but if I had a chance to get into Thailand and keep my revenues the same I would jump at the chance! I’ve been to thailand before and I can only imagine you live like a king given the low cost of living. If you have any tips on how to transition please share.

#238 Lee on 07.24.17 at 1:12 pm

I believe that the cost to a physician of schooling and foregone income for about ten years while in school adds up to close to $1,000,000 on an after tax basis, and probably even more. That million would be $3.5M twenty years later if stuffed into a balanced portfolio and left to grow. You see why we need to pay doctors a lot.

#239 blueb on 07.24.17 at 1:13 pm

totally reminds me of:

Hayek – from ‘The Road to Serfdom’

Murder, rape and theft are immoral simply because they violate a person’s property rights to
himself. Government programmes such as subsidies to farmers, bailouts for businesses, and
welfare or medical care for the indigent are also immoral for the same reason. Government has
no resources of its very own. The only way government can give one person money is to first
take it from another person. Doing so represents the forcible using of one person, through the tax
code, to serve the purposes of another. That is a form of immorality akin to slavery. After all, a
working definition of slavery is precisely that: the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes
of another.

#240 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 1:20 pm

Re #217 BillyBob on 07.24.17 at 11:08 am

Uff. I thought I was done with this discussion, but being a Nordic person and now quite a proud Canadian (as you can guess Canada has worked great for me & family and as you may recall from my previous posts, we made the smart move to avoid the RE hotspots), I feel compelled to clarify the Scandinavian nirvana myth. First, some definitions. Scandinavia comprises of three countries: Norway (not part of the EU btw), Sweden, and Denmark. Nordic countries comprise these countries plus Finland and Iceland. With this out of the way, let’s look at them one by one in alphabetical order.

Denmark: I like Copenhagen, especially cycling along the sea shore or across Denmark for that matter. Very very nice people. Amazing design. Not for people wanting to be in the mountains every WE though (Calgary for instance will work a bit better in this regard ;-)). Also if you are a foreigner or Greenlander with a Danish passport for that matter, read this before moving there: https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/0116/Inuit-Greenlanders-face-chilly-life-in-Denmark

Finland: I like it and could live there long-term, but it is not for everyone. Helsinki is gorgeous. Some little towns can be quite depressing. Language is not easy to learn. High structural uneployment (12%) with tons of well qualified ex-Nokia engineers looking for work. Economy is high-tech though, not like in Canada. Russia has quite a big say in the internal affairs without ever asking for such a privilege. Compulsory military service. Huge depression in 1990s the ramifications of which are felt to this day. Not too friendly in terms of customer service or towards foreigners for that matter. High levels of violence against women, alcoholism, and suicides. Sauna culture. Nature is great, but it may take some time, effort, and money to get to it through what seems like never ending forest. The lake area of Ontario is quite similar to Finnish landscape, hence large historical Finnish diaspora around Thunder Bay.

Iceland: great. I always enjoy my visits there and could imagine to live there long-term. They recovered from their financial disaster quite well and I like the ambition omnipresent in such a tiny nation. But there is a bit of nostalgia and solitude in the air, which may be perfect for many people actually who want a bit secluded place to live offering all the luxuries of modern life. If you like diversity, look elsewhere.

Norway: Uff. Not for me. These people snob even fellow Nordic brothers and sisters and the righteousness is omnipresent. When you get too wealthy too quickly, certain attitude comes with it. Apparently they will soon be driving electric cars only courtesy of a swing of the government’s magic wand, it is that progressive. Tesla tweeted their uninterested endorsement of this clairvoyance. The second most conformist nation on the planet after North Korea btw. Cannot drink alcohol in front of children. Great new airline connecting Nordic people to the world, well done. Norwegian should expand to Canada soon to show our domestic leaders how you can fly people in style cheaply. Nature is amazing.

Sweden: Beautiful country inside out. For all the investors on this blog, have a look at some Swedish companies. There are some true jewels for a patient long-term investor. Recently changing too much too fast leading to the emergence of no-go zones and racially / ethnically segregated cities. Hopefully Canada will learn some lessons here from mistakes of others. Very progressive as well, but less so than Norway. Violence against women on the rise. But overall a great place to live and raise a family. Amazing nature.

The bottom line: if you are a Canadian considering living in Europe, a lot of Nordic places may work great for you, but do not think all these places are paradises and you will be welcomed with open arms.

#241 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 1:27 pm

#223 Howard on 07.24.17 at 11:46 am
#156 Dolce Vita on 07.24.17 at 12:27 am

I live in Paris and admire many of the things you describe.

However, you seem to be focusing on things that beyond anyone’s control, and it only serves to make you look foolish. Canada is cold? Canada is big? Vancouver is rainy? Who knew? Italy is much older than Canada? Wow, didn’t know that!

Canada has immense problems (electing a government because its airhead leader has great hair, first among them) but weather, architecture, access to beaches….that’s mostly subjective. Not everyone fancies a roasting hot Rome summer.
___________________________________

Very true. I appreciate the age and history of Europe, and will someday go to look at the old Cathedrals, and some of the WW1/2 landmarks.

But live there because of its architecture and history?

When I think of where I’d like to live, I think of the conifers and granite of Northern Ontario. I like how empty it is, and the thousands of little lakes, rivers streams and spruce bogs. It smells great up there, it sounds awesome by day with the woodland birds, cicadas, and red squirrels, and with the wolves and loons by night. I love 4 seasons, and like cold weather and snow.

I should mention that once you are far enough North, whatever is decided in Ottawa has almost no meaning to a retired guy living a modest life where few Canadians will ever go. :)

#242 Not scandilicious on 07.24.17 at 1:52 pm

#217 BillyBob on 07.24.17 at 11:08 am

@New Canadian

Leaving any Scandinavian country for CANADA! hahah! is a serious downgrade. ”

Whoa, not so fast there….the Scandi food is some of the blandest fare on the planet. Herring sandwiches and frozen pizzas everyday?????Nah think I’ll pass on that one.

#243 A Reply to #224 Desperation and misery on 07.24.17 at 1:58 pm

“I have no new job prospects and just turned 36…. Want to know pain? come live my life…”

Get the latest (2018) edition of the book, What Color is Your Parachute? by Dick Bolles.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Color_is_Your_Parachute%3F

This book will turn your life around! It saved my life! It’s designed not only for job seekers and career changers, but anyone just starting out in life and trying to figure out what they want to do with their lives. Read every chapter and learn every lesson!

Sadly, the author, a world-renowned labour market expert and career counselor, passed away this year at the age of 90. Here’s his official Web site:
http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/jobs

#244 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 2:08 pm

#232 NoName on 07.24.17 at 12:36 pm
#221 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 11:40 am

Now that you explained this to me, and i’ll just accept that its ok for Canada to be country of convenience for who ever…

Why would someone have best interest for Canada when he/she does not have skin in the game. Easy fix for Canada, 1 citizenship is what i’m saying.

With this I agree 100%. It should be made much harder for people to get life-long advantages Canada offers through passport ownership without ever committing to the country. Another curious thing is that despite the media created perception how easy it is to immigrate to Canada, it took my family over two years to receive the visas allowing us to show up at the border to claim the PR status, despite having close to maxium immigration points for both adults, having a straightforward educational/employment history, and being from non-visa countries. When you go by the book, my impression from talking with other European-Canadians is that it is not that easy to permanently immigrate to Canada. Obviously just some anecdotal data points here so not much can be generalized based on it. Also the immigration system has evolved quite a bit since we were applying so it may be all different now.

#245 jess on 07.24.17 at 2:11 pm

#29 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 07.23.17 at 5:26 pm

This might be helpful
https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tips/the-small-business-deduction-does-your-corporation-qualify-6143

“Canadian corporation” doesn’t mean any corporation operating in Canada. To qualify for the Small Business Deduction, a corporation has to be a Canadian-controlled private corporation (CCPC).

To be classed as a Canadian-controlled private corporation, all of the following conditions have to be met according to Chapter 1 of the T4012 – T2 Corporation Income Tax Guide:
https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tips/the-small-business-deduction-does-your-corporation-qualify-6143

#246 AGuyInVancouver on 07.24.17 at 2:23 pm

#186 Ben – You should never feel you have to apologize for being frugal. If it delivers a life you and your family are happy in, more power to you for discovering things don’t make one happy.

#247 viorelli on 07.24.17 at 2:31 pm

One of my relatives here in BPOE, GVRD who is married to a Taiwanese national, but a Canadian PR card holder just told me that he closed his shop in Richmond BC, somewhere near Ikea and sold his warehouse last months. 12 people on the street looking for work, empty wearhouse which is overpriced and nobody will buy or rent now. Who would anyway with this new communist thief rules invest here again and give 58% to these pricks who then give it to Khadr, Clintons, and refugees? He is back in Taiwan of course, the operation has been relocated and 18 locals already hired. Lower taxes, expenses, rents, and much, much higher profits. When she asked him why he is barely in Vancouver anymore, he replied: “F….k the commies!, I will take my business somewhere else, but will continue to visit here and educate my kids here, they need the English to take over my business in the future”. Now let me ask you this question, what do you think is going to happen to this country’s economy and housing when more people like him move?

#248 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 2:32 pm

#217 BillyBob on 07.24.17 at 11:08 am

Canada basically IS Sweden, without the beautiful women.
_____________________________________

I’d have to disagree here. I went to a Rodeo of all bloody things over the weekend in a much gentrified locale of Prince Edward County.

The local women attending this redneck contest of Man vs. Beast were ******* incredible. Near 6′ tall, natural bleach blondes. KNOCKOUTS. Never seen so many 9.5+/10’s in one place in my entire life. They weren’t even trying.

These women left nothing on the table. My boys couldn’t keep their eyes focused on the show, Dad was having major trouble being willfully blind and faking it to the wife, it was ridiculous; almost traumatic.

#249 John of on 07.24.17 at 2:36 pm

#207 NoName

Question.

Why is that in last 45 days, cad gained almost 10% over usd. 85¢ dollar soon as second rate increase?

Anyone has any ides?
————————————
Mainly due to a dropping in the USD. See https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/DXY:CUR
for how the USD has performed against a basket of currencies. The other significant factor is the rate hike by the Bank of Canada with the expectation of more.

#250 John of Grant on 07.24.17 at 2:36 pm

hit return too soon….

#251 Consumption vs Income on 07.24.17 at 2:45 pm

After posting here earlier, had a chat with another couple friend, professionals, incorporated. They echoed to me the same sentiment, that this rat-race isn’t worth it. They told if Trudeau enacts the budget/plan, they will fire their nanny and work less.

So there you have it — people should be worried. Major tax grab on small business owners (including Doctors, IT, and others), will cause a shift in behavior.

That’s two people I know who have confirmed they will let go of staff, especially with $15/hour minimum wage hitting soon too (which means everyone who use to make $15 will now expect $20).

Another anecdotal evidence. My colleague is an IT contractor. He bills about $70/hour, so based on a 48 week/year (remember, no stat holiday pay), he earns about $125K/year. Which, he said, is basically about the same equivalent salary as someone with his experience at $100K/year. The corporation and tax deferral is what makes it financially worthwhile.

He said he doesn’t know what he’s going to do… he’s thinking that, because he is so specialized, he’s going to charge more to his client to make up the difference. And if he doesn’t get it, he’s seriously going to look for a full-time easy deskjob somewhere else, and contribute to his RRSP instead of leaving it in the corporation.

Long story short — after polling three people, I only see negative impacts, not increase in tax base.

I’m pretty sure that if most small businesses are making <250K before taxes, this will have a serious negative impact. The only people where this might be fair are from those earning $600K/year and dividend sprinkling with their adult children.

But if the government wanted to crack down on this, just reduce the small business tax deduction.

#252 The Wet Coast on 07.24.17 at 3:18 pm

M43BC

Enjoy your posts…..What about Pink Sunset?

#253 Howard on 07.24.17 at 3:23 pm

#238 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 1:20 pm

Thumbs up : Denmark, Finland, and Iceland. Interesting cultures, independent thinkers, proud of their countries without being obnoxious about it like many Canadians are. Fascinating languages (Finnish and Icelandic).

Thumbs down : Norway and Sweden. The latter is second only to Canada in cultural marxism proliferation. Malmo has become a no-go zone. Both countries are like Yonge & Bloor writ large. Granted, for the high tax you pay, you DO get quite a bit in return.

#254 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 3:23 pm

#227 MF on 07.24.17 at 12:14 pm
#196 Pepito on 07.24.17 at 10:05 a

Hey no need to take it personally. It’s well known the EU simply lurches from crisis to crisis. Some countries have benefited from the EU and others have not. It’s not my opinion but is fact.

MF
_____________________

Take what personally? You stated that it is a ” fact the EU will callapse”. Simply, no such fact exists, regardless of how strong your opinion on this may be. What part of that do you not understand?

#255 tomohawk52 on 07.24.17 at 3:41 pm

#222 n1tro on 07.24.17 at 11:40 am
#145 Ben

$2.6 mil net worth being a doctor.

Congrats. You deserve it.

———————————–

Amen to that.

#256 Island life on 07.24.17 at 3:52 pm

#131 Deplorable spacetime on 07.23.17 at 10:32 pm
#126 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 10:20 pm
23 Deplorable spacetime on 07.23.17 at 10:03 pm
#97 Smoking Man on 07.23.17 at 8:43 pm
If any of you dogs plan on skipping town for a few years and want to get rid of your junk.
Donate your stuff to Habitat for Humanity, you get juicey tax credit.
..
So when ya jumping the fence.. you’ve been going on on for years about going for a tax free runner..

I was hoping the Dr tax would not happen
As you know I hold a PhD in Herdonomics.
Well I had to wait for peek re which I did. But in retrospect peek real estate is a few years away but me and her dont have the luxury of time.
Then the proceeds to my kids or wifey-poo is not coming.
I’ll be full time Gonzo in two weeks.
..
mrs smokey will never last without friends n family… just you on an island to keep her happy!! .. good luck dude..!!. lol
………………………………………………………………….
Ha according to Smoking Man he has no friends, nor does he want any friends, so the island ice cream shop would work for him. You are correct however Mrs Smoking Man probably will be very unhappy therefore Mr Smoking Man will now be selling ice cream on an Island in Hell. Good luck with that one Smokie, didnt think that one through.

#257 NoName on 07.24.17 at 4:05 pm

#249 Consumption vs Income on 07.24.17 at 2:45 pm

Thats funny, did you ask you friend did he run that nanny idea by his wife, before he answered you.

#258 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 4:12 pm

#250 Howard on 07.24.17 at 3:23 pm
#238 New Canadian on 07.24.17 at 1:20 pm

Thumbs up : Denmark, Finland, and Iceland. Interesting cultures, independent thinkers, proud of their countries without being obnoxious about it like many Canadians are. Fascinating languages (Finnish and Icelandic).

Thumbs down : Norway and Sweden. The latter is second only to Canada in cultural marxism proliferation. Malmo has become a no-go zone. Both countries are like Yonge & Bloor writ large. Granted, for the high tax you pay, you DO get quite a bit in return.

Good insights. Indeed I may have a somewhat romantic view of Sweden and admit I have not been there for a while (my impressions are from 1990s). In general, low levels of corruption make the high taxation work. But even that system has come under a lot of pressure recently and increasingly fees are introduced for things which used to be free. These fees add up at the end of each month. A relatively new phenomenon is poverty of seniors whose standard of living drops dramatically. Nothing compared to homeless seniors in Toronto though. Regarding exotic travel on average income, it may indeed be easier bc of one factor. Europeans get TONS of vacation time and they do take it. Try to reach somebody in the office in August. That is a huge advantage of being employed in Europe vs. Canada. Yet, we naturally have a lot of Nordic families as family friends and they all seem to just get by especially bc of the cost of raising the kids, typically paying for a nice house in one of the in demand neighborhoods (family desires are not much different from Canada), running 1-2 family cars with all the punitive car/gas taxation, high VAT / personal taxes kicking in in much lower income brackets than in Canada etc. When we invite them over to Canada, often they say they do not have money to come. Another anecdotal data point is that Nordic families, whom we came to known in Canada, overwhelmingly decide to stay long term and raise their kids here. Obviously a lot of self-selection going on here, but still…

#259 taxed at 54% on 07.24.17 at 4:31 pm

A fee-based financial advisor cannot incorporate, has no benefits, paid vacation, pension or benefits and is taxed as an employee at the top marginal rate of 54% (if successful). So, yeah, you missed a lot. — Garth

It’s not a career then what a financial advisor could recommend, eh?

Only the manliest should attempt it. — Garth

#260 JRT on 07.24.17 at 4:35 pm

#240
You are right. Not to mention the high rates of sex crimes, no go zones, riots. You have to read the European press or know people in Scandanavia. Won’t hear what the script writers in North America say. They won’t even mention the China-India troop build up on the borders.

#261 Livin Large on 07.24.17 at 4:52 pm

“Long story short — after polling three people, I only see negative impacts, not increase in tax base.” Actually, all you have there are three whiney complainers. In the end they’re not going to do anything different and even the nanny’s job is safe.

#262 45north on 07.24.17 at 4:52 pm

IHCTD9: I should mention that once you are far enough North, whatever is decided in Ottawa has almost no meaning to a retired guy living a modest life where few Canadians will ever go. :)

Kirkland Lake?

#263 Tony on 07.24.17 at 4:53 pm

Re: #247 John of on 07.24.17 at 2:36 pm

There won’t be any more interest rate hikes from the Bank of Canada unless growth picks up in America. So it looks like the old phrase of one and done applies to Canada. They really needed two rates hikes to reverse all the damage the two rate cuts did back in 2015.

#264 I'm stupid on 07.24.17 at 4:59 pm

Dr. Ben

You are a contradiction. On the one hand you don’t like consumerism and want to save the planet, on the other you don’t want to save lives unless its financially rewarding. You donate to charity to do good, but refuse to do good around you unless it’s for financial gain. You can’t have it both ways, you can’t be a Cadillac driving environmentalists, Al Gore beat you to it. Drop the BS about how good you are and say what you really want to say… you want to be paid fairly for the work you do! Nothing wrong with it, your profession has a hard time admitting that. Good luck!

#265 Tony on 07.24.17 at 5:19 pm

Peak House listed February 24th 2017

Air conditioning: None, Central Vac: None Basement: Laminate Flooring 1,100 square foot bungalow 2 Bedroom. Located in the middle of nowhere

The guy two doors down sold for $410,000 the first week of March and then the owner pulled the listing.

Relisted

At $968,000 the market value is $500,000

This will stay on mls forever or until the owner takes down the listing again. This is your peak house:

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18442844/18947-MCCOWAN-RD-East-Gwillimbury-Ontario-L0G1M0-Rural-East-Gwillimbury

#266 IHCTD9 on 07.24.17 at 5:20 pm

#259 45north on 07.24.17 at 4:52 pm
IHCTD9: I should mention that once you are far enough North, whatever is decided in Ottawa has almost no meaning to a retired guy living a modest life where few Canadians will ever go. :)

Kirkland Lake?

——

That would more than do it, but I was thinking near Algonquin would be far enough for what I’m after. I need somewhere to spend some money and re-connect with civilization on a regular basis, so being not too far from a city like Bancroft would be perfect :).

#267 Howard on 07.24.17 at 5:34 pm

#240 Not scandilicious on 07.24.17 at 1:52 pm
#217 BillyBob on 07.24.17 at 11:08 am

@New Canadian

Leaving any Scandinavian country for CANADA! hahah! is a serious downgrade. ”

Whoa, not so fast there….the Scandi food is some of the blandest fare on the planet. Herring sandwiches and frozen pizzas everyday?????Nah think I’ll pass on that one.

———————————-

A famous Swedish/Finnish delicacy : Surströmming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_haw_YDC_zo

#268 Penny Henny on 07.24.17 at 5:40 pm

Would be good to read up on whether IIROC advisors are allowed to incorporate.
IIROC-regulated advisors may not incorporate. — Garth

IIROC?
Investment International Race of Champions?
That one?

#269 poly on 07.24.17 at 6:06 pm

Interesting… “a back door bailout in Exchange for something down the line. Very very dirty”

Trudeau, Morneau and Buffett.

http://wolfstreet.com/2017/07/24/canadian-finance-minister-gloats-about-crony-capitalism-in-warren-buffetts-bailout-of-home-capital-group/

It worked for now, didn’t it? I wonder what the real price was…

#270 Only the manliest on 07.24.17 at 6:17 pm

#256 taxed at 54% on 07.24.17 at 4:31 pm

A fee-based financial advisor cannot incorporate, has no benefits, paid vacation, pension or benefits and is taxed as an employee at the top marginal rate of 54% (if successful). So, yeah, you missed a lot. — Garth

It’s not a career then what a financial advisor could recommend, eh?

Only the manliest should attempt it. — Garth

You mean a deplorable?

#271 conan on 07.24.17 at 6:59 pm

I think T2 and the Liberals are going to do all right next election. I don’t see anything terrible about what they are trying to do. Besides, I am more likely to support the side that does not name call, anyway.

I am free sprinkles confident that T2, does not forget his pants, and wins again.

https://youtu.be/DPLwSaUpZC4?t=2

#272 Linda on 07.25.17 at 1:25 am

#135 ‘W’ – CPP can’t be ‘clawed back’ the way OAS can because CPP is a defined benefit (DB) pension plan. Read up on the rules of CPP on the Government of Canada website for details, but essentially if you contribute the maximum every year between age 18 & 65 (47 years) you will get unreduced CPP (the current maximum) at age 65. Less if you apply for it prior to age 65, regardless of whether you paid in the maximum all the years you worked or not. Out of the 47 years, 8 of the ‘worst’ years are dropped, so you don’t actually have to work 47 years but only 39 years to potentially qualify for ‘the maximum’. That having been said, the maximum CPP gross per annum was $13,300 last time I checked & you do have to pay tax on that. So don’t expect to live it up on that amount & for sure, don’t expect you will actually get that amount. It all depends on how many years you paid in, how much you paid in & when you decided to apply. If you defer taking CPP to age 71 the maximum amount paid will increase by 42% so you could potentially receive not quite $19,000 per annum before tax. If you know you are going to live a long time could be worth holding off on taking it, especially if CPP is all you expect to have to support you in your old age.

HOWEVER – while CPP can’t be clawed back, there is nothing to stop the government from changing the rules governing CPP. So yes, changes could be implemented that would result in a reduction to the amount of CPP you might receive. Keep in mind that there is little to no legislated pension protection in Canada. Sadly, quite a few Canadians have learned their pension plan won’t be there for them when they retire. Even more sadly quite a few retirees have seen their pension benefits reduced or even lost altogether. Look up Nortel, Enron, Air Canada etc. for examples of how things went awry. ‘But government workers are protected!’ – um, no. Air Canada used to fall under the Government of Canada. Then it got privatized & the pension plan ended up being gutted during various restructuring. IF you had 25 years of service or more, you received 60% of 60% (essentially 0.36 cents for every dollar you had paid in). Less than 25 years of service? Nada, zip, nothing, a big fat goose egg. You lost ALL contributions & too bad if you didn’t have alternative sources of retirement income set aside.

#273 Tamsen on 07.25.17 at 2:00 am

“Bill Grable on 07.23.17 at 5:14 pm

Vancouver has been eviscerated by hordes of people that arrive in Canada, and avoid taxes and to heck with the people that play by the rules, and are buying multi million dollar places, cash. HOW?

Greed and outright fraud are making living in Vancouver just about impossible.

The City is so out of balance, that a lot of retail and restaurant outlets cannot get anyone to work for $20.00 an hour…because crap shacks are renting for $4,000 a month – IF you can find one.

The next time you see a lineup to buy the ton of new condos being slapped up, check out the ethnicity of the folks in line…”

Bill is right. We’ve been seeing this and saying the same thing for a decade now. Foreign tax needs to be much higher, too …

#274 Oft deleted and much maligned stockpicker on 07.25.17 at 7:04 am

235 IT Contractor……not knowing anything about your personal skill sets I would suggest you CV linkedin. One thing for sure , head hunters are hiring like crazy ….. people are pouring into SE Asia…..particularly Malaysia, Thailand Singapore…..as far as I know Dallas Texas is still a hot market…….once you get out….it’s shocking to look back and realize how much time is wasted and how few opportunities there are in Canada and the low pay standard …. if I was a new grad I wouldn’t wait a minute longer to get out……good luck.

#275 final nail in BC coffin on 07.25.17 at 6:12 pm

Petronas pulled out of the LNG deal. Never thought it would happen anyway. Krispy Klark was telling fairy tales. Maybe she believed it herself.

Anyway, the province is pooched. There’s little to no upside left now.