Greed, fear & FOMO

Remember Derek? He and his squeeze sold their north GTA home in the final week of the FOMO frenzy and scored big bucks – $2.25 million. The craft beer didn’t flow for long, however, because within days the buyers were begging to walk. They’ve tried to buy their way out, but Derek’s a tough dog. A deal is a deal.

The only alternative was to put the place back on the market, take the best offer, sue the dipstick purchasers for the difference and hope for the best. But, as you know, a lot has changed in the last few weeks. The market cooled. Sales dipped. Listings exploded. The province turned its big fire hose on the raging fires of house lust. And now we have proof, statistically, of what’s coming.

Derek was in touch today, hours after the local real estate board reported.

“Here’s where we are now,” he says. “We have listed since Monday – and only one showing. Last time we had about ten in the first two days. Also, meanwhile, the house next door just got listed today – less than ours.”

Guess where this story’s headed? You bet. Some vulture will eventually come along, offer $400,000 less than the original sale price, which Derek will reluctantly accept – then unleash his lawyer. A year later, there may be a settlement. And lotsa legal fees.

Now this tale stands in stark context to the video posted here yesterday and the accompanying words detailing the feeding frenzy going on in the low-rise, suburban, new-housing sector. As mentioned, there are two markets at play. On the resale side listings have started to pile up and FOMO is powering down. On the pre-construction front, a shortage of supply and the fact you can buy with minimum down – making it a futures play – mean competition is scary. You saw for yourself all those elbows and knees, that pushing and jostling. Desperation, greed, aggression – it’s there.

To put things into context, the resale market is far larger than the other, has a more profound impact on overall pricing and will likely determine the fate of every real estate investor. And while speculation sure exists (especially in the new condo trade), prospecting and flipping on an epic scale is far more prevalent in the sales trailer featured in yesterday’s vid. May God help them. Lawyers will be busy.

So, here’s the score. Despite being the most vibrant period of the year for residential real estate, things have started going in reverse. On Wednesday the Toronto Real Estate Board (the largest in North America) revealed this:

  • The number of new listings has jumped the most in seven years. Obviously the word is out – collect your windfall gain now or see it melt away.
  • Buyers suddenly have 34% more choices as the number of available properties bloats to 21,630.
  • The Ontario government’s tough-love, bubble-busting policies have only been around a few days, but sales were off 3.2% for the month, and basically collapsed in the past week and a half.
  • This is the first year/year sales decline in three years.
  • The insane price appreciation of 33% y/y has dipped to a merely delusional increase of 25%. Expect that to fall rapidly, given the dive in deals in the last ten days.

No crash, but cracks. And no wonder. There’s now a huge foreign-buyer tax, universal rent controls, a coming empty houses tax and deteriorating confidence in the mortgage finance business as Home Capital writhes bloodied in the road. Everybody knows prices are stupid so it’s no surprise buyers would go on strike, unwilling to make the sacrifice when there’s a whiff this could all start heading downhill.

And maybe, just maybe, we’ve all been lied to for far too long. It wasn’t offshore Russian, Persian, Indian or Chinese dudes who ignited this inferno. It was us. Locals. The world doesn’t actually want to move here at all. Turns out we’re not New York, Tokyo or London!

The board just finished a major data mining, (based on land registry information and property assessments) and these are the conclusions in its own words:

  • The number of buyers with a mailing address outside of Canada is well-below 1%. Most of these buyers have a mailing address in the US.
  • Between 2008 and April 2017, the average share of foreign buyers in the GGH (Golden Horsehoe) was 2.3%.  The share was 2.2% in 2016 and 2.6% for the January through April period in 2017. The majority of foreign buyers – 87 to 90+ % – purchased their home as a place to live.
  • The trend from 2008 to April 2017 suggests the share of foreign home buyers has remained low.  The results also follow the results from earlier released data from an Ipsos survey of TREB Members conducted in the fall of 2016. The Ipsos survey results estimated that 4.9% of transactions undertaken between the fall of 2015 and the fall of 2016 were accounted for by foreign buyers.

So it’s a Wile E. Coyote moment. Hope you sold.

205 comments ↓

#1 Leo Trollstoy on 05.03.17 at 5:46 pm

#214 Damifino on 05.03.17 at 12:33 pm

If it’s raining out (which happens a lot in Vancouver) I’ll take my shoes off inside the door, otherwise, I never think about it much in my own home. I just walk in and carry on. But I might take them off later if I feel like it.

Do you avoid using public restrooms?

#2 Dave on 05.03.17 at 5:46 pm

For sake of argument….Garth is correct and the market finally slows down and prices free fall.

Where will the money flow to next…….perhaps commercial real estate? Any other guesses??

Money is a debt based system and will continue to forever expand…question is whats next?

#3 Contrary Canadian on 05.03.17 at 5:49 pm

Sorry, but “data mining” by a real estate board, who also created the HPI Frankennumber, is not something I’m prepared to accept without some unbiased review.

Simple illustration – We own several investment properties in greater Phoenix (bought in 2011, thanks for the advice Garth), our mailing address is in Greater Phoenix (thanks UPS Store), but we live in Vancouver.

I’m much more in alignment with the idea of measuring a foreign buyer based on where they paid (or didn’t pay) taxes last year. I’d expect the number would go up from there, how much I don’t know.

Not saying Toronto (and Vancouver) haven’t been driven in large part by local speculators who see an easy way to make money and don’t believe prices can ever drop. I definitely do believe this is the majority.

But I also think that if data were collected and analyzed by someone without a vested interest in keeping the party going, the results would be pretty different from anything the real estate boards will cook up (and I do mean “cook”).

My $0.02.

#4 Dr. Bob on 05.03.17 at 5:54 pm

Just another day in paradise…..well at least no rain

#5 jay on 05.03.17 at 5:54 pm

How long can these idiots in Ottawa keep these interest rates at this ridiculous low rate , anyone with a grade eight education can see they’re too low.

#6 Eurovision on 05.03.17 at 6:01 pm

HCG is toast, the disorderly fallout is in motion. The Great CDN meltdown is on its way.

#7 TheGhostofSteveMcQueen on 05.03.17 at 6:03 pm

British Columbia’s Business Temptation: An Opaque Array of Tax Breaks

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/canada/british-columbias-business-temptation-an-opaque-array-of-tax-breaks.html?_r=1

VANCOUVER, British Columbia — British Columbia is well known for its spectacular landscape and outdoorsy living, its swanky urban real estate and bouillabaisse of cultures.

A fact not so well known? It has a sweet deal for businesses, offering them tax breaks in an unusually opaque arrangement.

Like many places, British Columbia set up a system of tax incentives to lure businesses to the far western Canadian province in the hopes of creating jobs and transforming Vancouver into a global financial center.

But if the program has been good for business, it’s been less beneficial for British Columbia.

Participating companies have created few jobs, according to government figures, while more than 140 million Canadian dollars ($106 million) have been doled out in tax refunds since 2008, when the initiative was expanded.

The incentives operate under a cloak of secrecy that is unusual for similar efforts in Canada and the United States, critics say. The province will not name the companies that get the breaks. The only information available about them is on the website of a nonprofit that promotes the program.

“This is essentially a temporary foreign-worker program for the rich, with secret government subsidies for multinational corporations,” said Dermod Travis, the executive director of IntegrityBC, a nonpartisan political watchdog group based in Victoria, the provincial capital. “The government is selling B.C. as a tax haven for the global elite to park investment here, but not have to contribute.”

#8 Debtslavecreator on 05.03.17 at 6:06 pm

Derek should get what he can and get settlement as fast as possible from the idiot initial buyers
No doubt we have started a healthy and much needed correction but the only question now is how long and deep
I certainly don’t know but come November we should know
No matter what happens when this market stalls out for good it is the likely start of an ugly economic era in Canadstan

#9 Leo Trollstoy on 05.03.17 at 6:07 pm

Wow I was first today. There’s no end to my accomplishments in this lifetime

Lol

#10 PM on 05.03.17 at 6:08 pm

I watched an interview on BNN by TREB’s market research head. He said first time home buyers make up majority of the market share, somewhere over 60% in Toronto.

I cannot speak for anyone else but if I take my family income for example, my wife and I are making under 200k annually and we are finding it very difficult to purchase a home that is affordable. We are looking in GTA.

Where is the money coming from? especially, since the stress test was introduced.

In fact if you review the stats, market has gone up something over 30% after the stress test was implemented.

So this leads me to conclude that the market (prices) is been moved up by those that are not first time buyers.

Who are these players that have endless supply of money?

It is really troubling that as a advanced society we cannot point to the cause of this housing madness. Unless of course we do not want to.

While I hope for personal reasons that Garth is correct. But logic tells me that there is a lot more of irrational exuberance to come.

#11 OttawaMike on 05.03.17 at 6:12 pm

Remember the coyote roadrunner cartoons?

They just coming back with new episodes.

That’s the real estate market. No cliff. No fat lady.

Yet.

#12 For those about to flop... on 05.03.17 at 6:14 pm

Pink Pollen falling in Coquitlam.

Just like I talked about this morning ,no matter how hot the market you can run into trouble to offload if you overpay and get in front of the market as much as these guys did.

Last March when at the time the current assessment was 1.4m they shelled out a breathtaking 2.2m for this near 60 year old house.

The generous 2016 assessment that put a lot of people that bought in the Spring back into some semblance of alignment did not do these folks as much of a favour as it topped out at 1.75 ,so even then they overpaid by the best part of half a million.

They just took the grinder to the price , grinding it down to the favourite 7% above the purchase price so they can walk away roughly even after expenses and pretend that nothing went wrong.

I would be shocked if this one has a happy ending,but hey ,all that rain gets in people’s eyes and ears…

M42BC

720 Shaw Avenue, Coquitlam

Jan 16:$2,468,000
May 2: $2,368,000
Change: – 100000.00 -4%

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=720%20Shaw%20Avenue,%20Coquitlam&filter=1

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAzWDdMNQ==

#13 Eurovision on 05.03.17 at 6:15 pm

expect rates to follow, the only way out is to clear the the table, game over.. Banks backed by tax payer moola never loose.

#14 Hotel California on 05.03.17 at 6:18 pm

Oh, I see that the Vancouver narrative has changed now:

VANCOUVER HOME PRICES SURGE

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-02/vancouver-home-price-surge-defies-canadian-housing-jitters

Now where are all those posters like VREU who said that you a sales plunge precedes a price plunge? All those that said this was a willy coyote moment of hanging off a cliff?

I guess we do have a new paradigm shift. It is not only possible to step off the cliff ledge, but to go up on your own!

Time to examine if its really low rates that is causing the price surge :)

#15 Damifino on 05.03.17 at 6:27 pm

#1 Leo Trollstoy

Do you avoid using public restrooms?
—————————–

Are you a germophobe, like Jerry Seinfeld?

#16 Ronaldo on 05.03.17 at 6:28 pm

FROM THE FINANCIAL TIMES JUNE 22 1987:

Predicting cost of a re-sale house over next 25 years(2012).

CANADA
1961 1986 2000 2012

Ave House Pr. 12,703 94,902 244,452 639,478
Ave. Family Inc 5,317 39,382 96,360 244,817
Mortgage Int. 7% 11.2% 10.7% 10%
% Inc. to carry 19.2% 23.4% 24.5% 24.1%

TORONTO

Ave House Pr. 16,334 149,803 443,002 1,332,147
Ave Family Inc. 6,542 47,767 116,877 296,943
Mortgage Int. 7% 11.2% 10.7% 10%
% Inc. to carry 18.7% 30.5% 35.1% 41%

Interesting forecast but based on interests rates being 10% or higher. Imagine what these numbers would be if we were to use 2.5% interest as we have today.

#17 common sense on 05.03.17 at 6:28 pm

#5 Jay (and anyone else thinking the same thing)

Of course they are too low WORLD WIDE.

Don’t you think if they had ANY options at all, they would raise them? What is the alternative? Tell me just ONE solid area of growth that is on the horizon? Just ONE. There are no good options. None.

Janet baby MAY raise in June and is likely to, perhaps into a recession. She will need ammo to prevent going negative like Japan (that’s worked out swell) when the other bubbles burst or deflate.

Raise rates, pop all the bubbles and have the billions of people in debt to their eyeballs because of the mistakes made by Central Banks the past fend for themselves? Imagine the masses in limbo? Think about it.

Garth has been doing us all of us a favour, keeping us informed and warned about the Canadian Housing bubble. Please don’t call me Trumpocalypse 2 but what goes up must come down….

#18 crdt on 05.03.17 at 6:28 pm

This is the moment that has kept so many out of the market. Imagine buying a house, putting every future dollar till death into it to find it is suddenly worth way less. Waking up every morning to face the grind for the foreseeable future only to pay for one moment of greed/weakness/desperation. It is all fun and games until the lawyers and banks get involved, then it is a fight for survival. To all those who threw caution to the wind, good luck, may this be a good lesson.

#19 Leo Trollstoy on 05.03.17 at 6:31 pm

#15 Damifino on 05.03.17 at 6:27 pm
Are you a germophobe, like Jerry Seinfeld?

I’m not a fan of feces. You?

#20 common sense on 05.03.17 at 6:31 pm

#9 Leo

Congrats on your Andy Warhol 15 minutes of fame moment here tonight.

I for one am jealous.

#21 Hope on 05.03.17 at 6:31 pm

Finally, all the blog dogs who missed out bigly in the real estate lottery in the past “lost decade”, due to their misreading of the market, can hope to see the light at the end of the tunnel to home ownership, they might afford.

#22 Blacksheep on 05.03.17 at 6:35 pm

Entrepreneur # 223,

Blacksheep….

“You are kidding about voting for Kristy, hope you are. You have to live in a bubble to vote for her.”
————————————-
Serious as a heart attack.

NDP sucks big time for business.

How old are you. Do you remember the last time the NDP took power? Or the time before that? I do and it was really shitty times.

You don’t get what’s going on….

There is no other, major driver in the economy, so I’ll take a prosperous bubble, over Horgan’s defeatist attitude anyday.

If you missed the RE market ride up in BC that sucks, but if vote for anyone but Clark, housing will become the least of your concerns, cause now you’ll get to worry about keeping your Job.

Clark’s a winner with job #’s to prove it, Horgans a loser, destined to fade into obscurity…..its that simple.

#23 Steve on 05.03.17 at 6:40 pm

“The number of buyers with a mailing address outside of Canada is well-below 1%. ”

With all due respect Garth, this is a bit misleading. We are not talking about who owns which passport, but where the money used to purchase properties originate. Of course new Chinese immigrants in Vancouver are not foreign buyers, but the bulk of money they bring is. Further, many Canadians of Chinese origin operate as proxies for foreign buyers, in some instances purchasing dozen properties in new highrise developments. So that 1% number is bogus.
How else you would explain houswifes and students purchasing multimillion dollar houses?
Now, if this is what our government wanted fine, but then we will end up with out of reach properties in underfunded cities, as many, many owners of those properties only pay property taxes, and appart from that contribute very little to society (not working here, not paying taxes)
Call me racist if you will but I would write the same if it were Americans, Europeans etc

#24 Lulu on 05.03.17 at 6:45 pm

We are TORONTO, we are gonna take over the center of the universe, so,even London, New York and Tokyo fall, WE, Toronto is different and we are so resilient to any major impact, no black swan can drawn us, NEVER!! LOL

#25 Bank of Millenial on 05.03.17 at 6:48 pm

#2 Dave

Maybe interest rates actually become attractive again? Just at the same time as everyone has been bled dry of their cash, and the grey hairs start winding down their investments.. Wouldn’t that be a concept, supply meet demand.

#26 nope... didn't sell on 05.03.17 at 6:52 pm

proud owner of 3 properties, two we rent.

:)

#27 Andrew t on 05.03.17 at 6:54 pm

#2 Dave on 05.03.17 at 5:46 pm
For sake of argument….Garth is correct and the market finally slows down and prices free fall.

Where will the money flow to next…….perhaps commercial real estate? Any other guesses??

Money is a debt based system and will continue to forever expand…question is whats next?

Unless I’ve been reading this blog all wrong, I think the whole point is there wasn’t all that much capital to begin with, merely leverage, and if things go the way it looks like they will, there will be a de-leveraging cycle to contend with first.

#28 dakkie on 05.03.17 at 6:55 pm

Canada’s Housing Market Bubble Is At The Horizon Of Implosion; What Implications Will It Have For The Canada’s Economy If The Housing Bubble Does Burst

http://investmentwatchblog.com/canadas-housing-market-bubble-is-at-the-horizon-of-implosion-what-implications-will-it-have-for-the-canadas-economy-if-the-housing-bubble-does-burst/

#29 Smoking Man on 05.03.17 at 6:57 pm

No crash.

People listing to catch a lotto ticket, they don’t hit their mark, they will de-list.

It’s going to take about 3 months.

There will be some vulching with desperate sellers but not enough to move the price.

Now if it does, and we crash huge. We are all doomed.

With all this emotion out there the herd is unpredictable.

#30 Rexx Rock on 05.03.17 at 7:03 pm

Oh well,the streets of Victoria is still paved with gold.Everyone wants to live here if they can afford it.Vancouver,Toronto and Victoria is where all the high paying jobs are.

#31 For those about to flop... on 05.03.17 at 7:04 pm

Pink Pollen falling in Vancouver.

These guys will be hoping that the price reduction on this place attracts a crowd because I don’t think they can let it go for this price.

They paid 1.29 and then fully renovated it to impress Broadway since its down his way and now they are probably hoping to get multiple offers to push it back towards original listing.

By the way Broadway ,are you still getting them prices for me the next time you talk to your realtor buddy ,or was that a head fake …

M42BC

2712 Pandora Street, Vancouver

Apr 11:$1,588,000
May 2: $1,399,000
Change: – 189000.00 -12%

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=2712%20Pandora%20Street,%20Vancouver&filter=1

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAwMlFYRQ==

#32 Paul on 05.03.17 at 7:07 pm

Well this is the end of the thread, Original Dave you called bull on me and now when proven ! Crickets from you !!

#216 Paul on 05.03.17 at 12:50 pm

#128 Paul on 05.02.17 at 10:32 pm

#116 Original dave on 05.02.17 at 9:16 pm

Was offering tonight on home if the south west end.
Called at 1:30 no offers registered. Presenting at 6:00,
Called to register at 5:00 was told there are 10 offers!

———————

Calling bull on that. Your sales must be slow. In my neighbourhood things were selling very quickly. In the past two weeks a few listings have come up and nothing has sold. I was simply asking about skyrocketing inventory. I dont believe in things selling super quick – and I def. dont believe 10 offers
—————————————————————–
Well you can believe it now call this office in the A.M.tell them you are from Remax and ask how many offers were on this address last night.

Then you can apologies
—————————————————————–
Dave did you call yet, my offer would have been #11 we walked

313 Durie St

Sold:$1,335,313

List:$998,000

#33 Sprawl on 05.03.17 at 7:11 pm

If real estate drops 23% removing a 30% gain. What happens to all those Home Equity Lines of Credit some have been living on and the value doesn’t carry debt?

#34 When Will They Raise Rates? on 05.03.17 at 7:11 pm

Hey Garth, you neglected to add the biggest revelation of TREB’s release to your bullet list, namely that Detached, Semi-Detached and Townhome prices were DOWN m/m in April:

https://i.imgur.com/CuuOkwo.jpg

Only condos were up in April, everything else actually went down in price!

#35 Chaddywack on 05.03.17 at 7:14 pm

I hope D does sue the buyer. A deal is a deal. It seems that society in general these days doesn’t take responsibility for their actions. We’re all special snowflakes.

On another note, two of my young (early 20s) cousins just got into the market in Vancouver. One paid $450k for a 600 sq ft studio in North Van and another paid $600k for a 650 sq ft 1 bed and den downtown. Apparently both bid well over list…..I don’t know whether they took money from the BC first time buyers program but I know both their parents own multiple properties. To my knowledge they never considered renting as an option. I hope they do ok and get about the same appreciation that happened in Vancouver last spring.

#36 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 05.03.17 at 7:15 pm

How many buyers will go bankrupt? All those buyers who bought this winter are now underwater and losing money everyday. I would bet many of those sales were from hgc and ebq the two major subprime lender who IMO are bankrupt as well as CMHC. The housing ponzi will fall apart as people will borrow until they go bust. If government doesnt understand that they need to be charged with financial stupidity . Imo bankers , realtors and those running CMHC should be charged with financial crimes and imprisioned for live. As of now people have borrowed and are now bust. Happy Housing Crash Everyone Everyone Everyone! :-)

#37 TheGhostofSteveMcQueen on 05.03.17 at 7:19 pm

Low Incomes and High House Prices in Metro Vancouver
http://siteeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/High-House-Prices-and-Low-Incomes-April-2017.pdf

The Lower the Reported Income the Higher the House Price

The unusual finding is that higher house prices
are found in low income municipalities, and
lower house prices are found in high income
municipalities. Families in Metro Vancouver’s traditionally “upper and upper middle class” western urban centres, such as Vancouver, Richmond and Burnaby, live in houses with very high values, routinely over $1.5 million and often $2 and $3 million; far above the regional average. Yet taxpayers in these same cities are reporting unusually low taxable median family incomes well below the regional average.

Conversely, in newer, traditionally less affluent “middle and working class” eastern centres such as Port Moody, Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam, Langley, and Maple Ridge, house prices are well below the regional average. These areas are reporting incomes well above the regional average. The remote suburbs are now the high-income areas, at least as far as taxation and contribution to funding public infrastructure is concerned. For example, Port Moody now has the highest median taxable income in Metro Vancouver yet only average house prices and Richmond has the lowest median taxable income yet some of the highest house prices.

#38 InvestorsFriend on 05.03.17 at 7:21 pm

Money, Money, Money

#2 Dave on 05.03.17 at 5:46 pm
For sake of argument….Garth is correct and the market finally slows down and prices free fall.

Where will the money flow to next…….perhaps commercial real estate? Any other guesses??

Money is a debt based system and will continue to forever expand…question is whats next?

************************************
Good questions. When house prices fall the wealth in houses decreases as part of the wealth simply evaporates into thin air.

The money the buyer paid, most of which obtained by debt as you allude, still exists and is unaffected in the sellers bank account.

The money supply will decrease only when debt starts to fall due to loans being paid off. Loans written off will decrease bank share owner equity but not decrease bank deposits (aka money).

No money at all will flow out of houses as they decrease in price. For one person to sell a house for $500k or whatever requires another to buy it for the same $500k for no net flow of wealth or money out of houses.

As you allude, loans create money. Paying off loans destroys money. Strange but true.

Loans are being paid down everyday (decreasing the money supply) but new loans created (increased money supply) exceed those paid down. With lower house prices, that may not be the case.

#39 Tony on 05.03.17 at 7:23 pm

I see one coincidence after another in fact dozens of them. Two dozen is what 2 raised to the 24th power or 16,777,216 to one odds. So if the Chinese buy in 24 cities and the prices all double in what 6 months’ time in all the cities? That’s a lot of coincidences!! The old phrase is take the malarkey spewed by the TREB with a grain of salt.

#40 TSX on 05.03.17 at 7:26 pm

Anyone think it lands black for 2017

Hoping for the financials to get hit . That’s guarantee red . 2016 was a mirage

#41 Harvey Lipshitz on 05.03.17 at 7:36 pm

What`s a mortgage ….

#42 Address in the USA on 05.03.17 at 7:36 pm

Most foreign buyers have US mailing addresses….does not at all prove those buyers are not from Asia, Russia, etc. The question is whether those mailing addresses are associated with individuals who are US tax residents. For all we know, most of them are not, and they may in fact even be mailing addresses of accounting firms who play a secretary role in an anonymous company incorporated for the purpose of hiding the buyer origin. How do we know this is not the case? Also, it would be interesting to know if the majority of these mailing addresses “happen” to be located in US states that do not charge state taxes…

#43 -=jwk=- on 05.03.17 at 7:43 pm

Closed on another home in Florida today. Likely the last, market is rising nicely but making rental returns less attractive.

Saw the California rise and fall first hand (2000-2006). Not pretty when things go south. Same story as Toronto: people want to live here, global city, no more land, debt ratio is fine (due to soaring values), FOMO, get it in now or you and your children will never own a home dooming your entire family and all heirs to rental life forever, what do you mean you haven’t bought a condo for your newborn by the time she is 20yrs a condo will cost millions, this is the new normal. And then, it wasn’t. Reality caught up. It wasn’t pretty. Home depot went from having a security guard enforce the ‘professionals only’ parking spots to allowing me to back my car practically into the store to load my stuff….

#44 Coopoiler on 05.03.17 at 7:49 pm

Traveling in car today! Spouse tells me two thirds of Canada’s electricity now comes from renewable sources. Can that possibly be true?

#45 Tony on 05.03.17 at 7:52 pm

DELETED

#46 I'm Not Poloz on 05.03.17 at 7:53 pm

“The world doesn’t actually want to move here at all. Turns out we’re not New York, Tokyo or London!”

I had a great laugh on that one. The majority of house-owning Yuppies in Toronto are out of their minds that they believe that they live in the richest cities in the world where everyone is “equal”.

I guess they never lived in Rexdale, Jane & Finch, Albion Road, Malvern, and other low income areas in Toronto.

Right now I’ve heard that Regent Park in downtown Toronto is becoming Yuppi-fied that the female career professional yuppies are starting to call the police on every second because they see a poor looking dark or brown person walking on the street.

You can thank Poloz for cutting rates to encourage gentrification of the low-income areas that force poorer people to become homeless on the street.

I’ll tell you this straight—Such classist, economic form of racism in the States would cause a riot. Not even the gun-toting Constitutional rednecks down South are that level of racist, as long they don’t find out you were shagging the man’s wife or adult daughter you will be fine.

#47 TurnerNation on 05.03.17 at 7:56 pm

#40 Tsx. Watch TECK losing it here…I call it a leading indicator stock.
Dollarama hit new high today will we see 130.

I dumped Home Crapital near Tuesday’s highs.
Let it fall to 4ish now.
Telling: Genworthless stock popped 5% on earnings then closed red.

#48 Pete from St. Cesaire on 05.03.17 at 7:57 pm

So it’s a Wile E. Coyote moment. Hope you sold.
———————————————————–
Free-fall with a big splat is coming. Don’t try to soften it, Garth, by saying there won’t be a crash. There sure will be. Let it happen. The pendulum has to be allowed to complete its cycle, otherwise, like with a clock, it will stop moving all together and that would mean NO opportunities anywhere for anybody.

#49 For those about to flop... on 05.03.17 at 7:58 pm

Pink Pollen falling in Coquitlam.

It seems like a lot of home owners in Coquitlam decided to use the change in the calendar to get serious about getting their money out of real estate.

These guys ,like the last guys ,overpaid by a large margin forking out 1.97 last June when it was only assessed at 1.3. The gap was closed later in the year but fell well short at 1.66m.

It backs onto a golf course and so they’re not the only ones in the area that have dug a hole for themselves…

M42BC

1756 Hampton Drive, Coquitlam

Feb 2:$2,380,000
May 2: $2,098,000
Change: – 282000.00 -12%

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=1756%20Hampton%20Drive,%20Coquitlam&filter=1

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAzWTI4Wg==

#50 AK on 05.03.17 at 8:05 pm

June 14 Fed Rate Hike Currently at 76%

#51 Pete from St. Cesaire on 05.03.17 at 8:10 pm

Derek should get what he can and get settlement as fast as possible from the idiot initial buyers
———————————————————–
Yes, the guy could go bankrupt, especialy if he’s the kind of guy to rush into such foolish deals. Make a deal with him now, without lawyers if possible. Show him how much lawyers cost and let him decide that it’s best to settle. Get his money before the collapse, because later on he may realize that he is so pickeled with all of his debts that his only route is to go bankrupt.

#52 Ace Goodheart on 05.03.17 at 8:10 pm

So did some poking around trying to figure out why there is still a “dispute” as to whether or not HCG is a “buy”.

Their business model seems simple enough. Take deposits, pay interest at around 1-2.5% or so, then loan the money out at a higher interest rate, mostly for residential mortgages.

Insure yourself on both ends of the deal, CMHC on the mortgages and CDIC on the deposits. Someone else pays for both insurance policies (home owner pays CMHC, taxpayers fund CDIC).

The result is a risk free, money machine. Of course it was profitable. How could it have been otherwise? It is a beautiful creature. All the finest attributes.

So then I had a look at the current business model they are running and I cannot see how they are going to make money off of it. They are borrowing at up to 22% interest, and loaning out at a lower amount.

The way I see it, the share value should be zero. I can’t see how the current operation could have any value.

It looks like they should sell their mortgage portfolio, pay out their bond holders and preferred share holders, and then pay whatever cents on the dollar are left over to the common shares.

At any rate that’s my take on it.

In other news, tried an experiment today (was really bored). Bought regular, large, extra large and “Omega” eggs at the grocery store. Took two from each box and made scrambled eggs. Weighed the results.

Very little difference. Actually the regular were slightly heavier.

Why are we paying up to $7.00 a box for eggs, when you can buy regular and make scrambled that actually weighs more than the scrambled eggs from extra large?

#53 Leo Trollstoy on 05.03.17 at 8:15 pm

#20 common sense on 05.03.17 at 6:31 pm

Congrats on your Andy Warhol 15 minutes of fame moment here tonight.

Whoo hoo! Thx!

#54 dr. talc on 05.03.17 at 8:17 pm

The people here typing that they want high interest rates deserve them, not me. Has it occurred to ya’ll that when rates rise, prices fall, but payments increase=no change.
Unless you’re all hording cash, in that case you have my sympathy. It’s purchasing power fell 33% in the last year where I live.

#55 Marius on 05.03.17 at 8:18 pm

Paying 30 bucks a month to rent a postal box does not constitute citizenship. It is in the interest of real estate boards to low ball foreign buyer numbers.

Question: Why does Garth distrust everything real estate boards say, except their fake foreign buyer numbers?

Answer: it fits well with his conservative “free market” ideology.

All data to date from all sources supports the same conclusion. Toronto area real estate is only marginally affected by foreign buyers. I’m a numbers guy. Show me better data and I’m in. — Garth

#56 For those about to flop... on 05.03.17 at 8:19 pm

Product recall.

Bombay Gin with accidental alcohol level of up to 77%

I don’t see this recall being a success…

M42BC

#57 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.03.17 at 8:19 pm

Geez.
Its been 2 whole days and a coupla earthquakes later and no dire warnings from Trumpocalypse2017.

You feelin ok Trumpy?
Or are you trapped in the bunker under a collapsed stacked pile of bumwad…..?

#58 Andrew Woburn on 05.03.17 at 8:22 pm

How Online Shopping Makes Suckers of Us All

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/05/how-online-shopping-makes-suckers-of-us-all/521448/

#59 TurnerNation on 05.03.17 at 8:27 pm

University is such a scam these days. We got Masters level people applying to very junior rules. And ask anyone working min. wage service jobs in the downtown core – they all have undergrad degrees.

The elites figured this profit machine could be expanded from 10% to 50% of the population.

Didn’t used to be this way. I’m sure back in the day our forum host padded around the leafy UofT campus clad in tweed blazer (with leather elbow patches natch), hoisting a pipe for effect (filled with tobacco of course).
Some say he was politically active, yelling
‘Don’t burn your Brah’ – recognizing the sanctity of one’s male friendships.

Wait till the A.I. robots can write names, draw smiley faces onto Starbucks coffee cups. Then it’s really over.

#60 Habitt on 05.03.17 at 8:33 pm

Toronto, Toronto, Toronto, Toronto. Oh bother

#61 cramar on 05.03.17 at 8:43 pm

#10 PM on 05.03.17 at 6:08 pm

I cannot speak for anyone else but if I take my family income for example, my wife and I are making under 200k annually and we are finding it very difficult to purchase a home that is affordable. We are looking in GTA

—————-

Pretty sad isn’t it? Making almost 200 grand and cannot afford a house in the GTA! Would you trade off half your income to buy into an area where a SFH is 1/4 the cost? If yes, then seriously consider moving to a smaller city.

#62 Ace Goodheart on 05.03.17 at 8:58 pm

RE: 56 For those about to flop… on 05.03.17 at 8:19 pm

“Product recall.

Bombay Gin with accidental alcohol level of up to 77%

I don’t see this recall being a success…

M42BC”

I actually thought this Bombay Gin was a bit of a bonus. Not sure why they’re recalling it. It’s like a 2 for 1 deal. Buy 40%, get 77%. You can halve your shot or double the mix and you get the same amount of juice.

It’s like getting two bottles for the price of one. Quite the deal.

Want to head over to the LC’ and check if they have any left…..

#63 Mark on 05.03.17 at 9:01 pm

“How long can these idiots in Ottawa keep these interest rates at this ridiculous low rate , anyone with a grade eight education can see they’re too low.”

Low levels? Ridiculous? Interest rates are far too high relative to the Canadian economy and its performance. The output gap is extremely wide, with the economy basically being comatose. And this is all before the RE stagnation of the past few years has been widely acknowledged. The Canadian dollar was able to lose 30% of its value against Canada’s largest trading partner, yet no inflation appeared. As housing turns down, the BoC will need to lower rates to zero, and institute a program of QE to keep the economy and the banking system together.

Next BoC move is most likely a cut. Low rates, definitely not in Canada at the moment.

#64 Mark on 05.03.17 at 9:06 pm

“If real estate drops 23% removing a 30% gain. What happens to all those Home Equity Lines of Credit some have been living on and the value doesn’t carry debt?”

The collapse of the value of HCG’s loan book is increasingly reflecting exactly what I’ve been saying here, that Canadian RE hasn’t appreciated since 2013, and stated LTVs are a giant delusion.

What happens to these HELOCs? They get more expensive. A lot more expensive. To reflect that there’s no collateral behind the loan.

Some will be able to pay them off, by selling if they still have equity. But many will end up defaulting.

#65 45north on 05.03.17 at 9:07 pm

it’s a Wile E. Coyote moment.

dakkie: from his link: Price of Existing Homes Canada vs US: this shows Canadian prices higher by one third

jwk: talking about a real estate market where everything is better and better: and then it wasn’t

AK: June 14 Fed Rate Hike Currently at 76%
that would just about do it

Kathleen Wynne and her rusty side kick Charles Sousa have conned themselves. They think they control the housing market but they don’t. Not one single sale.

#66 Chicken Dinner on 05.03.17 at 9:09 pm

@ #9 Leo Toystore

Today marked another one of your many FAILS.

Only in your world does 9th place means 1st place.

“winner winner chicken dinner” — not!

#67 Leo Trollstoy on 05.03.17 at 9:12 pm

#43 -=jwk=- on 05.03.17 at 7:43 pm
Closed on another home in Florida today. Likely the last, market is rising nicely but making rental returns less attractive.

Very nice! Congrats! Jacksonville? What did you get?

#68 common sense on 05.03.17 at 9:27 pm

#66 Chicken

Talking about the Chicken calling the pot….

LOOK at all the comments…NOT.

When you point your finger at someone else, you have 3 pointing back at you….perfect.

#69 not 1st on 05.03.17 at 9:40 pm

Guess Derek wasnt smart enough to get a deposit with the offer. Amateur hour…

Of course he did. As with all deposits, it went into the trust account of the listing brokerage, from where it can be retrieved only when both parties sign a mutual release or receipt of a legal order. You are the amateur. — Garth

#70 conan on 05.03.17 at 9:44 pm

Eventually, Toronto real estate prices will implode. How bad could it be though, minor or major? Will people remain civil?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FkE38Q-4ao

#71 Fuzzy Camel on 05.03.17 at 9:44 pm

This market will takes years to cool down without interest rate hikes or a market crash. Everyone has a bone for real estate right now.

What scares me, is this housing boom is going to lead to a massively overbuilt housing market. If it tanks, being this overbuilt, and population is flat, it might never recover.

Immigrants don’t want to come to Canada, the land of no jobs and declining property values. They want Canada, the land where your house skyrockets and tons of easy money.

#72 WUL on 05.03.17 at 9:45 pm

May 3 this year was a better day than May 3 here in Ft. Mac. My thanks to all those Canadians from hither and yon for their generous support and donations. Proud of ya.

Now our friends in QC need a hand with the floods. It’s gonna get hard to avoid donor exhaustion as anthropogenic climate change increases the frequency and severity of natural disasters.

Numerous in-house scientists with Exxon said so starting in the late ’80s hence Exxon spent over $240 million to debunk the science. Nice bunch.

Happy 150th!

#73 Al on 05.03.17 at 9:48 pm

#3 – Contrary Canadian.
I agree with you. TREB is a self serving lobby group and accepting their claims is like agreeing with the fox that says you don’t need to cage the chickens as they far outnumber the foxes! After the 15% FB Tax was implemented on the puny 3% of FBs the RE Market came to its senses instantly. That says a lot.

The FB tax is on closings, and could have had no real effect in 10 days. As for the data, it is not from TREB but rather Teranet and MPAC. Feel free to offer better stats. — Garth

#74 paulo on 05.03.17 at 9:54 pm

#52 ace
interesting article but i think you need to get out more lol

#75 Smoking Man on 05.03.17 at 9:56 pm

Garth my accountat has vanished in rehab hell, off the face of the earth. X cra auditor who’s kept me off the shit list.

Got some loot coming my way soon. Do I just come to the genral store and talk business. Or call up the bay street number at Turner investments so ryan and Doug can show off their cars.

Bringing the wife’s car to dogapaluza. Hoping to interview Doug and Ryan

Dogs my final edited book still in my millenial editors hands. They dont seam to care about deadlines. Going to be tough to get em printed in time.

So if your comming for a free book. Not looking good. She’s had it for 3 months. Takes 3 hours to read.

Kids. Medical students.

If I get it back before dogapaluza will only take a day to convert it to an ebook. Free copies to anyone that buys my dogs treats.

Any BLOGdogs that show proof of purchase. When I get the printed versions. Free copies signed at a July 1st party at 57 James. Selfies in the gazibo.

BYOB.

#76 Leo Trollstoy on 05.03.17 at 9:56 pm

The reason Toronto home prices keep rising on indentical units is due to cheep $. And the fact that the economy is doing better than anybody expected. Jobs are here. Money is free. Prices rise. Employees used to be wage slaves. Today they’re debt slaves.

#77 someone on 05.03.17 at 10:04 pm

DELETED

#78 Manitoba Whale on 05.03.17 at 10:09 pm

#52 Ace Goodheart on 05.03.17 at 8:10 pm
Very little difference. Actually the regular were slightly heavier.
****

There is little demand for XLarge Eggs. Often they are packaged as Large, a bonus for the customer.
Seriously, why choose Omega or any more expensive brands/specialty eggs? Eat more fish and seafood or pop a salmon oil pill each day. More bang for your buck.

#79 Gregor Samsa on 05.03.17 at 10:09 pm

Median Toronto family income is $68,110. Median Vancouver family income is $67,090. Average SFD in Toronto costs $1.2 million. Vancouver it’s $1.5 million.

Something just doesn’t add up here. Can someone explain to me how this is possible when it’s not foreign money (as per Garth’s evidence)? This seems to indicate subprime mortgages.

Average families without pre-existing equity are not buying detached 416 houses or YVR. Obviously. — Garth

#80 paulo on 05.03.17 at 10:10 pm

#56
I learned something interesting today, was at the LCBO and discussing the recall on Bombay gin, with the hot clerk, seems that the LCBO does internal quality control checks including alcohol content on products they sell
they issued the recall after discovering the extra alcohol content.

#81 Vancouver on 05.03.17 at 10:17 pm

Condo prices have skyrocketed in Metro Vancouver since Christy Clarke decided to give away home buyers interest free loans. Just another way she can give back to her real estate developer donor friends. You have to hand it to her..I didn’t see this one coming. She’s creatively screwed another generation.
Not another day with a liberal government.

#82 Smoking Man on 05.03.17 at 10:20 pm

#77 paulo on 05.03.17 at 10:10 pm
#56
I learned something interesting today, was at the LCBO and discussing the recall on Bombay gin, with the hot clerk, seems that the LCBO does internal quality control checks including alcohol content on products they sell
they issued the recall after discovering the extra alcohol content.

Why is that a problem. Missed the boat on that.
Two times buzz at the retail cost for one.

Oviously the govt has a problem with that. Lost tax.

#83 SoggyShorts on 05.03.17 at 10:21 pm

#66 Chicken Dinner on 05.03.17 at 9:09 pm
@ #9 Leo Toystore

Today marked another one of your many FAILS.

Only in your world does 9th place means 1st place.

“winner winner chicken dinner” — not!

—————————————–
Good call, so who did have the first post?

#84 Doug t on 05.03.17 at 10:23 pm

2017 so far blows and many months ahead – 2018 is going to make this year look like cherry pie.

RATM

#85 JAN on 05.03.17 at 10:25 pm

DELETED

#86 Negative rates on 05.03.17 at 10:27 pm

Would we reach negative mortgage rates to keep the RE prices high? http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/9722138

#87 I'm stupid on 05.03.17 at 10:44 pm

There are 2 types of people. Ones that have and ones that want. In the late stages of a bubble it’s the ones that want that get burnt. Those are usually the poor that bet everything to join the party. There’s a reason that they’re poor. A wealthy person can go bankrupt but he knows how to make money so eventually becomes wealthy again an poor person has no idea so ends up in the same circumstances. That’s why so many lottery winners, pro athletes, actors and musicians go broke. Just a fact!

#88 Smoking Man on 05.03.17 at 10:48 pm

I’m not sure if weed will be legal come July 1st. 2017.

Smokeupalusa at james st.on July 1st. Canada at 150 years old. Got a work around. You all show up with a burka covering your face.

T2 and law inforcement will never shit on that agenda.

Dr Smoking Man
PhD Herdonomics

#89 NoName on 05.03.17 at 10:50 pm

#58 Andrew Woburn on 05.03.17 at 8:22 pm

I you read my posts you would read that 11 day ago…

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2017/04/21/the-war-on-wealthy/#comment-511980

#90 Doug in London on 05.03.17 at 10:58 pm

@Coopoiler, post #44:
I think two thirds is higher than the actual amount, but when you consider that hydroelectric power is a renewable source, a lot of power produced in Canada is renewable. That’s especially true in Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec, Manitoba, and BC.

#91 Be smart on 05.03.17 at 11:01 pm

To all of the people who have cashes and want to buy a house in a lower price, here is a SOLUTION:

Bank of Canada has punished the SAVERS in this country big time by keeping the interest rate near ZERO for a DECADE. And housing speculators have been using your FREE money making millions of dollars. THis is so unfair!

All you need to do is that all the savers need to be UNITED and WITHDRAW all your MONEY from the banks/HCG/EQBs, cash out!

And then WATCH, the house price will GO DOWN 100%!

Look at what happened to Home Capital Inc., People cash out and they CRASH immediately!

#92 };-) aka Devil's Advocate on 05.03.17 at 11:01 pm

#87 Negative rates on 05.03.17 at 10:27 pm

Would we reach negative mortgage rates to keep the RE prices high? http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/9722138

In a manner of speaking; isn’t that what PST and GST rebates are?

I am entirely convinced the government and others dependant on maintaining this unsustainable Ponzi scheme economy going will pull out all stops to do so.

#93 Smoking Man on 05.03.17 at 11:05 pm

Ctv news. A tragatity to humanity.

#94 bdwy sktrn on 05.03.17 at 11:10 pm

#72 WUL on 05.03.17 at 9:45 …and severity of natural disasters
————————–
the same flood happened in 1972. must have been just a fluke then.

CA – 5 yr drought – caused by too much CO2 we all were told.
seems adding just a touch more co2 (this year) was the cure!

you are way too smart to fall for the globull warming nonsense.

#95 };-) aka Devil's Advocate on 05.03.17 at 11:15 pm

Cycles

and

Doubling Time

SHIFT happens. Learn to ride the tide };-)

#96 Spectacle on 05.03.17 at 11:22 pm

I hope the link works.

Real estate works in mysterious ways. The properties by polygon, Seven Peaks in squamish BC seem to fit the excellence of outlier investments. There is nothing decent for rent in Squamish, nothing.

These units at a fraction of the price of T.O prices, and Vancouver . It might be a way better niche investment, for ” sofisticated” or informed investors. Vancouver seems far too risky according to the wisdom of Garth. Far better than Whistler too. Thoughts blog dogs? They are about to go on sale, impressive quality .

Squamish Townhomes | Seven Peaks …
http://www.polyhomes.com › community › sev…

#97 Keith in Calgary on 05.03.17 at 11:24 pm

The RE pumpers who continually say that Toronto or Vancouver are world class cities like New York, London, or Tokyo have never been to any of them.

That’s why they say such stupid things.

#98 WUL on 05.03.17 at 11:34 pm

Another 300 Calgarians lose good oil patch jobs with ConocoPhillips ditching the oil sands by its asset (??) sale to Cenovus. The recession will be a depression if it affects me. Don’t buy realty in Ft. Mac.

#99 bdwy sktrn on 05.03.17 at 11:44 pm

#91 Doug in London on 05.03.17 at 10:58 pm
@Coopoiler, post #44:
I think two thirds is higher than the actual amount, but when you consider that hydroelectric power is a renewable source, a lot of power produced in Canada is renewable. That’s especially true in Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec, Manitoba, and BC
——————
hydro is certainly renewable.
as a bit of an energy purist i consider it entirely solar powered. the sun provides the energy to lift a tiny bit of the oceans/lakes/etc into the sky. A tiny bit of that, falls in bumpy spots that we can catch it. truly a beautiful and blessed energy source.


the provinces you listed are hydro ‘powerhouses’ but combined they are about the same pop as ont… so i thought 2/3 was way too high. i was wrong on that. 55%. very impressive.

from the NEB
In 2014, installed electricity generation capacity in Canada reached 140 GW. Hydroelectricity remains the primary source of electric power, accounting for 55 per cent of total capacity. Natural gas, coal, and nuclear plants provide most of the remaining supply, while non-hydro renewables such as wind, solar, and biomass make up eight per cent of capacity

#100 TV CLIP on 05.03.17 at 11:52 pm

Garth on TV tonight.

http://www.citynews.ca/video/2017/05/03/video-crowds-jostling-for-new-homes-could-be-a-warning-advisor-says/

#101 yorkville renter on 05.04.17 at 12:01 am

#92 – Be Smart – And then WATCH, the house price will GO DOWN 100%!

so, houses will be free?

#94 – Keith in Calgary – have never been to any of them. That’s why they say such stupid things.

absolutely agree.

#102 Entrepreneur on 05.04.17 at 12:06 am

I am just hoping that housing affordability levels out for families to buy into the market. And people can have dreams again. So we can keep our communities health.

If voting for Kristy, Liberal, make sure you read the find print of what she is saying. Before signing any contract read those magnifying lines.

#103 in the hammer on 05.04.17 at 12:10 am

my buddy just picked up the cheapest townhouse on east mountain in Hamilton steps away from juravinski hospital.

paid 210K
will rent for $1300 easily
property tax 1500

15600 total rent
-4476 first year mortgage interest 2.7% 25 year mort 20% down payment
-1500 property tax
-2000 maintenance

6524 positive cash flow
44500 down payment and closing costs

14.6% cash on cash return.

and that’s with no appreciation folks.

however you can operate your balanced diversified portfolios without having a backbone.
being a landlord can be a pain in the ass.
but when your tenant pays their rent on time and you have the nicest grass on the street, things are good

#104 NoName on 05.04.17 at 12:13 am

I dont konw who made this but its great, you move mouse over the “square” and tellz you did dwelling count increased or decreased for period of time (2011 — 2016).

http://bit.ly/2p7UEn4

but it might be problem wit it, i just checked a street where i live and shoved incerease of 17, but there is notheng new builled since forever, few exterior upgrades to couple of houses. So it might be inacurate, but interesting.

#105 paulo on 05.04.17 at 12:25 am

#83
actually i have no issues with getting high test for the price of regular just thought it was interesting that essentially a retailer would be doing detailed lab tests on the products they sell, albeit at outrageously over taxed prices

#106 Sir James on 05.04.17 at 12:28 am

Bitcoin hit $2000 CDN today.

#107 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.04.17 at 12:31 am

@Smoking Man JD paloozaa
“Got some loot coming my way soon. Do I just come to the genral store and talk business. Or call up the bay street number at Turner investments so ryan and Doug can show off their cars.
Bringing the wife’s car to dogapaluza. Hoping to interview Doug and Ryan…..”
********

O…..M……G…..

I trust the policeman/security guard in yesterdays video is still for hire at the Belfountain Doo?

#108 };-) aka Devil's Advocate on 05.04.17 at 12:38 am

#98 Keith in Calgary on 05.03.17 at 11:24 pm
The RE pumpers who continually say that Toronto or Vancouver are world class cities like New York, London, or Tokyo have never been to any of them.

That’s why they say such stupid things.

My experience is they of New York, London or Tokyo say much the same respectively. Well, maybe not so much of Toronto };-)

#109 Rates vs Capital on 05.04.17 at 12:43 am

In Vancouver, the media, the real estate industry, the development industry, the banking industry, and officials at the local and provincial level, all down played the impact of foreign capital in the dramatic rise in housing prices.

First, it was apparently ‘racist’ to discuss foreign buyers – I did not know ‘foreign’ is now a race – you better tell the Americans, Chinese, and British buyers they are all a race now; then foreign capital purchases were restricted to the higher end of the market which apparently has no impact – its not like once a house sells for a high price that the next neighour selling says, ‘that was too much, I will lower my price for local buyers’; then foreign capital purchases were apparently restricted to certain neighbourhoods which then morphed into certain cities – provincial data, not the real estate franken numbers, showed 20% or more of purchases in cities like Richmond and Burnaby were from foreign capital.

It took over half a decade for some of those stakeholders and the public to gently talk about the impact of foreign capital and to acknowledge, begrudgingly, its impact on housing affordability.

The same BC style narrative is being spun in GTA at this very moment – and by the ever so trustworthy real estate association with their ‘frankenumbers.’ Can anyone credibly accept their ‘analysis’ on foreign capital? If so, I am not sure how – the association is constantly slagged for creating ‘frankenumbers’ to obscure the true picture of the market. All of a sudden we should trust this association because it fits of the meme that foreign capital has a negligible influence? Sorry, you cannot suck and blow at the same time.

Is it really a coincidence that months after the BC Foreign Buyers tax gets implemented there were Vancouver-like massive price increases in the GTA, as buyers get diverted elsewhere? That months after the BC Foreign Buyers Tax is put into place we have a 7 fold increase in the number of ‘official’ foreign buyers in Victoria and a 20% increase in Victoria prices, where the tax does not apply?

And is it any coincidence that after 6 weeks of the Ontario government advertising in detail their ‘forthcoming’ market measures, that capital is being diverted back to Vancouver? That market is on fire again after a measly 6 month stall in prices for single family homes while the condo and townhouse markets have been lit up…

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-02/vancouver-home-price-surge-defies-canadian-housing-jitters

Remember, all it took was 8% of marginal buyers in the US to cause a 32% decline in prices. So do you really think that the so called 5% of foreign buyers has a negligible impact on house prices?

Within a few short months, we will know if low interest rates or foreign capital is the main driver of price appreciation in these hot markets (where economic fundamentals have not changed for years).

In less than a year, as US rates rise and fixed rates here rise with them, you will know the true driver of the market – and bears are going to be disappointed. Fundamentals say that for every 1% increase in rates, there is a 10% decline in prices….boy there better be a lot of 1% increases to wipe out the 40% increase in the last 2 years in Vancouver.

Foreign capital is the biggest downplayed variable amongst the other drivers of the market – low rates, easy credit, FOMO, cultural beliefs in the value of brick and mortar, bank of Mom and Dad, a perversion of the CMHC mandate to provide affordable housing, non-existent CRA enforcement around rental income, etc.

#110 Polizi Sheme on 05.04.17 at 12:51 am

Oh the vast majority of buyers are local Canadian citizens or recent landed immigrants or students but the money to buy RE is most certainly foreign. Money not earned in Canada and of course not taxed in Canada. This is the root of the problem. Canada has anti money laundering laws that are not enforced which allows this to happen.

#111 Rates vs Capital on 05.04.17 at 1:06 am

Marius #55

aying 30 bucks a month to rent a postal box does not constitute citizenship. It is in the interest of real estate boards to low ball foreign buyer numbers.

Question: Why does Garth distrust everything real estate boards say, except their fake foreign buyer numbers?

Answer: it fits well with his conservative “free market” ideology.

All data to date from all sources supports the same conclusion. Toronto area real estate is only marginally affected by foreign buyers. I’m a numbers guy. Show me better data and I’m in. — Garth

————-

The influence of foreign capital was downplayed for years by the real estate cartel in Vancouver – and all that discussed it. The 5% was a nice optical figure – enough to prompt FOMO but not enough to cause public pushback.

But low and behold, the actual provincial data showed double digit foreign capital influence – a shock to no one except those that denied their impact.

http://www.news1130.com/2016/07/26/real-estate-transactions-metro-vancouver-foreign/

In a year or two, I think we will be re-visiting TREB’s foreign capital numbers….based on past precedent.

#112 Pete from St. Cesaire on 05.04.17 at 1:18 am

All you need to do is that all the savers need to be UNITED and WITHDRAW all your MONEY from the banks/HCG/EQBs, cash out!
—————————————————
That’s what I’ve been saying along. Get your money out. It’s your money. Have it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The RE pumpers who continually say that Toronto or Vancouver are world class cities like New York, London, or Tokyo have never been to any of them.
——————————————————–
Of course, they’re pretenders. T.O. and Van. have tons of them.

#113 DON on 05.04.17 at 1:19 am

#1 Leo Trollstoy on 05.03.17 at 5:46 pm

#214 Damifino on 05.03.17 at 12:33 pm

If it’s raining out (which happens a lot in Vancouver) I’ll take my shoes off inside the door, otherwise, I never think about it much in my own home. I just walk in and carry on. But I might take them off later if I feel like it.

Do you avoid using public restrooms?
***************************

It doesn’t rain in Raincouver. Just a 10 month long conspiracy theory some pot smokers think up every year. Besides it doesn’t rain in Vancouver it pours.

As for the public restrooms, who wouldn’t try and avoid using one with all the nasty bastards out there.

#114 DON on 05.04.17 at 1:23 am

“So it’s a Wile E. Coyote moment. Hope you sold.”

The classics Wile ‘Oh sh$t moment’.

Nice!

#115 For those about to flop... on 05.04.17 at 1:32 am

Pink Pollen falling in Vancouver.

This house has been featured a few times as it is one of the 4 flips in my area that I watched over the winter and wondered how they were going to make a profit.

They purchased this house in late March 2016 for 1.518m and after renovating the interior had it back on the market in August.

It was removed and some more time and money was spent on it including landscaping and painting the exterior and put back on the market for 1.788m and then they reduced it by $20k to 1.768m.

They sat on that price for a few months and just lowered it to 1.58m and now if it goes for anywhere near this number they will have lost money on this flip.

I’m sure a family will snatch it up sooner or later as an elementary school is across the street and you could yell at your daughter to run faster and stay away from all the boys…

M42BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/5540-windsor-street

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAwMjlSWg==

#116 DON on 05.04.17 at 1:33 am

Who’s gonna play Garth in ‘The Big Short 2 – Canada’ or the ‘The Canadian Bubble that never existed but in the end did exist’?

#117 Koshy Alex on 05.04.17 at 1:36 am

10# PM
Who are these players that have endless supply of money?

Most of them are ordinary Canadians, mostly immigrants who obtain mortgage through fraud. The government and Central Banks want to keep the Ponzi scheme going at any cost, so won’t take any action. Sometimes it is scary, when you see
people with 30k income buying 600k house in Oshawa. I am not lying, this person works as a security guard, lived in Overlea Blvd in Toronto is now a proud owner of a 600k house in Oshawa. You can imagine how he obtained the mortgage.

#118 DON on 05.04.17 at 2:26 am

#22 Blacksheep on 05.03.17 at 6:35 pm

Entrepreneur # 223,

Blacksheep….

“You are kidding about voting for Kristy, hope you are. You have to live in a bubble to vote for her.”
————————————-
Serious as a heart attack.

NDP sucks big time for business.

How old are you. Do you remember the last time the NDP took power? Or the time before that? I do and it was really shitty times.

You don’t get what’s going on….

There is no other, major driver in the economy, so I’ll take a prosperous bubble, over Horgan’s defeatist attitude anyday.

If you missed the RE market ride up in BC that sucks, but if vote for anyone but Clark, housing will become the least of your concerns, cause now you’ll get to worry about keeping your Job.

Clark’s a winner with job #’s to prove it, Horgans a loser, destined to fade into obscurity…..its that simple.
********************

Trump would be very proud of you!

I hate blatant ideology the most. How can you ignore the news?

You have no evidence for what you have stated. Kinda like the Wrongful Ministry of Health Employee Firings (one employee took his life. RIP). Disgusting.

Let’s talk about stuff that matters.

The only thing propping up the BC economy is real estate pumping among other shady activities. Full-time jobs are being shed in BC and only gains in part-time. BC leads Canada in PART-TIME LOW WAGE job gains.

Legitimate question: Where do you get your news? BC Liberal Election Command Centre?

We need to start electing Independents who represent the interests of their communities. This is getting stupid!

#119 DON on 05.04.17 at 3:15 am

#93 };-) aka Devil’s Advocate on 05.03.17 at 11:01 pm

#87 Negative rates on 05.03.17 at 10:27 pm

Would we reach negative mortgage rates to keep the RE prices high? http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/9722138

In a manner of speaking; isn’t that what PST and GST rebates are?

I am entirely convinced the government and others dependant on maintaining this unsustainable Ponzi scheme economy going will pull out all stops to do so.
******************

The US empire couldn’t pull out all the stops or didn’t. Sooner or later everything Human related fails – collapses under it’s own weight. How can we expect the government to save this market. Yes this cycle takes time, but it will happen. Last time this happened was in the 80’s but we have set new heights and records for greed. How can this end well? You are not looking for brilliance in our current governments…are you?

Besides all it takes is for buyers to get spooked.

#120 nubbers on 05.04.17 at 3:26 am

Why so much support for Derek?

His buyers were most likely victims of media hype, realtor manipulation, and a system that discourages people from doing due diligence on a life changing transaction. Any sane legal system would have a cooling off period in such a situation.

Events since the sale make it look even worse. The system has snagged an unwary couple who, after a day or two of foolishness, may have to pay out a fortune in return for nothing. Even worse, the house has since been proved to have been overpriced.

Derek’s buyer might be on the hook legally, but not IMHO morally.

#121 AK on 05.04.17 at 6:43 am

#121 nubbers on 05.04.17 at 3:26 am
” Any sane legal system would have a cooling off period in such a situation.”
——————————————————————–
I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that there used to be a cooling off period. ? I believe for 10 days ?

#122 Franc Mazzuca on 05.04.17 at 7:05 am

Where can you find the statistics on the number of immigrants coming to Canada and where do they settle.
I have to believe that many will settle in Toronto.
If 50,000 per year settle in Toronto that will add 1/2 million people to the population growth. If supply does not keep up with demand that will limit the downside of this correction.

#123 SimplyPut7 on 05.04.17 at 7:06 am

#118 Koshy Alex on 05.04.17 at 1:36 am

I made a comment similar to that on an American business site and the people there couldn’t believe Canada would allow something so reckless like that to happen. They thought I was making it up. They couldn’t believe we didn’t learn anything from their housing crash.

#124 SimplyPut7 on 05.04.17 at 7:11 am

#118 Koshy Alex on 05.04.17 at 1:36 am

Big banks, real estate brokers and sellers of these homes don’t care how you get the mortgage(s) as long as all the money is there when it is time to pay for the home.

Also, I think our mortgage fraud is more of a GTA thing than an immigrant thing.

#125 maxx on 05.04.17 at 7:16 am

Cottage we viewed in early April now down a further 20%. The realtard had sworn that the seller wouldn’t drop a penny more. HA!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, realtards would appear to be advising potential cottage sellers to wait – the same old crap as last year is on the market. And the year before.
Some of this cottage-country schlock has been on the market for years, relisted over and over again.
Delusional, greedy sellers and realtards can take their stale, overpriced junk and place it securely where the sun doesn’t shine.
Cottages are so over-rated outside of June, July and August anyway.

#126 Mike in Toronto on 05.04.17 at 7:24 am

#121 nubbers

These are the people bidding up houses and making them unaffordable to people who are buying with real money and want inspections, conditions and other prudent, cautious actions.

Morally, they’re greedy. They only heard what they wanted to hear from the bank (you’re richer thank you think!), the realtor (no conditions is normal!), and the competing offers (housing only goes up!).

They wrecklessly outbid the competition, then with hindsight evidence that it wasn’t the best idea, they wanted out, but it’s too late. Derek shouldn’t face real losses because of somebody’s greed. He’s not a charity. Somebody who could have afforded the house, or put careful conditions on it was outbid.

Unless you’re buying a tear-down you can easily afford, nobody in their right mind puts an offer on a house with no conditions, even if this is “normal” now.

Should Derek have interviewed the buyer and said “now… can you *really* afford this house? it’s a big decision you know, buying a house. No conditions means that things could be wrong with it and nobody’s going to help you. Is that what you want?” Then said “I don’t really believe this buyer is making a good decision for their family” and gone with the second-highest bid?

It’s in their lawyers hands now, hopefully his contracts are tight and he won’t lose too much.

#127 Alien_Soldier on 05.04.17 at 7:30 am

I got a text from my real estate agent last night. He told me “great news! There are more listings now and a lot of sellers having to relist as the original price was to high, or they did not get any bids. If we have a reasonable offer, sellers might be interested in taking it up from us.” I told him I’d come out and see some properties, but am still holding out to see what happens closer to the end of this year. This is in Toronto by the way.

#128 FLHTK on 05.04.17 at 7:44 am

If I was that guy and got 2.25 for my place and they backed out i’d be sueing as well for the difference that’s probably 400k on the table or more…..a cottage up by Bancroft on the water for retirement…..No brainer

#129 Vancouverite on 05.04.17 at 8:02 am

#121 “Derek’s buyer might be on the hook legally, but not IMHO morally.”

I remember taking a business law course and my professor saying: In real estate deals, when prices rise before closing, sellers will try to get out of signed deals; and when prices fall, buyers will try to get out of signed deals.

#130 jess on 05.04.17 at 8:21 am

senate permanent subcommittee
read the evidence

starts 2001 with testimony from Cayman island banker

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Bean-Statement-FATCA-4-26.pdf

#131 A Reply to #110 Rates vs Capital on 05.04.17 at 8:46 am

“I did not know ‘foreign’ is now a race – you better tell the Americans, Chinese, and British buyers they are all a race now….”

Fear or hatred of foreigners is by definition xenophobia (not racism).

#132 Grey Dog on 05.04.17 at 8:52 am

117 DON recommendations for who will play Garth in the Big Short II – Canada

1. Harrison Ford. Action Figure a disrupter
2. Morgan Freeman. Voice of God
3. Martin Sheen. Played President for a few seasons
4. Christopher Plummer. Isn’t he Canadian?

#133 Lee on 05.04.17 at 8:55 am

#128 Alien Soldier,

Coincidentally, listings in my subdivision just went from 4 to 8 overnight. Prices range from $900,000 to $1,400,000. One just got sold and is being relisted – don’t know if original sale did not go through. Lot of choice. A couple of these properties have been listed for a few weeks. I am sure each will go for a bit less.

#134 traderJim on 05.04.17 at 8:59 am

#29 Smoking Man

“No crash.

People listing to catch a lotto ticket, they don’t hit their mark, they will de-list.

It’s going to take about 3 months.”

Exactly my opinion. I guess it’s true what my mother always said: “great minds think alike”

Guess I better get up to speed on Herdonomics and is it nictonites? Aliens?

#135 traderJim on 05.04.17 at 9:09 am

I ain’t no lawyer but it seems to me if courts suddenly say anyone can walk away from a signed RE contract (and real estate is a different, more sacrosanct type of deal than any other), then all hell breaks loose.

Why wouldn’t everyone just sign deals to buy and then wait and see which way the wind blows?

Or do we now allow sellers the ability to back out as well after 24, 48, 72 hours? A week?

Sellers could accept one offer and then keep shopping.

People who think it’s no big deal to walk away from a RE contract are the types who can’t see the unintended consequences of government policies and stupid laws. Try to think one step ahead for once.

#136 traderJim on 05.04.17 at 9:16 am

Just as in the US housing bubble and crash the main culprits in Canada’s bubble are:

1) artificially low interest rates forced down by Central banks, flooding the market with liquidity

2) loose credit fuelled by CMHC insurance which lets the lenders off the hook

3) desperate buyers of MBS’s who believe credit ratings and don’t have a clue about risk

4) Bank policies to compensate employees based on how much money they give away (a truly brilliant idea…not)

5) Foreign capital flowing in due to the massive liquidity flooding the entire world

6) a little bit of catch-up as Toronto was very undervalued for years, although I would not say that about Vancouver

Now, if foreign buyers had very little effect on markets, why all the fuss about a vacancy tax? Does the government (who has the real data) think locals are buying properties and then not even bothering to rent them out while waiting for appreciation? Really? I don’t think so.

I admit it could just be government pandering to the masses, they are good at that.

#137 NoName on 05.04.17 at 9:16 am

interesting reads

Facebook advertising, and how disingenuous that company is from advertizing to vulnerable teens to probably affecting elections. as a guy in article say they oten joke what would happen if they make an targeted add go out and vote in swing states.

http://bit.ly/2qIug4l

Related to FB targeted advertising, but from googles perspective. Some yrs back there was similar article about google and ES when he talked about internet tracking. ultimately ended up in pissing contest between cnet and goog prohibiting employees to talk to cnet ever, after cnet published how too google and find everything available abou ES.

http://bit.ly/2pJzdKL
—–

Interesting read, study of friendship, antisocial behaviour and majority ilusion.

https://goo.gl/0ks7Mw
—–

Makes me wonder how long before algos start making comments in comment section.
http://bit.ly/2p997Ps

Yesterday my wife told me that she reds comments here sometimes while we were having lunch, didn’t say much just that she reds, but she suggested for us to have walk this morning after she drops kids to school, not good…
I’m hoping, if i promise new kitchen will she let me say.

#138 45north on 05.04.17 at 9:21 am

washed up lawyer: climate change:

if 100 years ago there had been an identical fire in Fort McMurray, the town would not have burnt because it was not built

if 100 years ago there had been an identical rain storm in Gatineau, the houses would not have been flooded because they were not built

#139 AK on 05.04.17 at 9:22 am

Brokers Loosen Ties With Home Capital as It Fights For Its Life

#140 ALFRED E. NEUMAN on 05.04.17 at 9:23 am

#110 Rates vs Capital on 05.04.17 at 12:43 am

Very well said .. I think you absolutely nailed it, thanks for your contribution.

#141 };-) aka Devil's Advocate on 05.04.17 at 9:26 am

#120 DON on 05.04.17 at 3:15 am

The US empire couldn’t pull out all the stops or didn’t. Sooner or later everything Human related fails – collapses under it’s own weight. How can we expect the government to save this market. Yes this cycle takes time, but it will happen. Last time this happened was in the 80’s but we have set new heights and records for greed. How can this end well? You are not looking for brilliance in our current governments…are you?

Besides all it takes is for buyers to get spooked.

1.) You are correct the “cycle” takes time. Each economic “cycle” is typically 7 to 10 years.

2.) You are correct; with each “cycle” “we have set new heights and records for greed”.

3.) Of course the government of the day will do whatever it takes to keep the economy going posting growth at all cost.

4.) Of course it is unsustainable and, eventually, there will be nothing anybody can do as the economic Ponzi scheme paradigm we adhere to ultimately crashes and burns. But that’s not likely for another 3 or 4 economic “cycles” (7 to 10 years each) away as we kick that can down the road for future generations to deal with.

#142 traderJim on 05.04.17 at 9:32 am

#66 Chicken Dinner

“@ #9 Leo Toystore

Today marked another one of your many FAILS.

Only in your world does 9th place means 1st place.

“winner winner chicken dinner” — not!”

Wow, wrong, stupid, petty and pathetic all in one comment!

No wonder you didn’t sign your nick to that one, that would’ve been embarrassing huh?

#143 Grey Dog on 05.04.17 at 9:36 am

I wish Derek all the best…however, shouldn’t guys like the buyer who sent Derek’s home sale into a tailspin have this action reported in his Financial credit report, and have his numbers decrease significantly for his actions?

#144 SWL1976 on 05.04.17 at 9:55 am

#95 bdwy sktrn

#72 WUL …and severity of natural disasters

————————–

the same flood happened in 1972. must have been just a fluke then.

CA – 5 yr drought – caused by too much CO2 we all were told. seems adding just a touch more co2 (this year) was the cure!

you are way too smart to fall for the globull warming nonsense.

———————

Hey barfway skytrain,

Why don’t you take some time off from trying to sound smart talking about your solar panel project and look up…

Global Dimming… And not so much the made for public PR version such as the BBC, but the real deal versions of what is really happening

You have been had. Mostly brought to you by the koch brothers and many other greedy oil tycoons

#145 The real Kip on 05.04.17 at 10:04 am

As if Home Capital didn’t have enough problems, here we go!

https://kmlaw.ca/cases/home-capital-class-action/

#146 Simplyput7 on 05.04.17 at 10:08 am

#123 Franc Mazzuca on 05.04.17 at 7:05 am

I have many friends that have parents who immigrated to Canada, it takes a while for a family to get settled in Toronto, I would say around 7 years, maybe they can get into a home in 5 years, if they live with family that have already settled in Canada. Most would not have $500k to $1 million for a home, that’s just a lie the media and real estate brokers spread to make local buyers think they are competing with wealthy foreigners and offer above asking for a home.

Many families don’t stay in Toronto or even Canada. Our population increase from immigration is not very large as shown by Stats Canada.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo02b-eng.htm

I am not sure if Stats Canada publicly states how many immigrants leave Canada and for what reason. Many immigrants leave Canada for the US, go back to their home country or immigrate somewhere else (e.g. UK or Australia). And, if our housing market turns and people in construction, finance and the real estate industry start losing their well paid jobs and our GDP turns negative, highly skilled immigrants will go to other countries with better job prospects, Canada will not be their first choice.

Most immigrants are not refugees who are desperate to come to Canada and take whatever crumbs we give them, they are skilled workers who do have a choice and if the smoke and mirrors are removed from Canada’s housing market, these workers will go to other countries where they are more likely to find better quality jobs.

#147 n1tro on 05.04.17 at 10:09 am

“Data Mining” – love the use of a buzz word for applying a filter on excel to exclude mailing country code of “CA”.

A better use of excel and this data would be to pivot the data and see how if their is a 1:1 relationship of names to addresses. At least this would possibly reveal how many speculators (foreign and domestic) make up the total market.

#148 soost on 05.04.17 at 10:09 am

So the way I see it if Toronto and Vancouver take a dive the whole country is dead. Feds lower interest rates b/c they are off Target. What then? Fire sale to the world to protect metrics? Are we right back where we started?

#149 Grantmi on 05.04.17 at 10:11 am

#121 nubbers on 05.04.17 at 3:26 am
Why so much support for Derek?

His buyers were most likely victims of media hype, realtor manipulation, and a system that discourages people from doing due diligence on a life changing transaction. Any sane legal system would have a cooling off period in such a situation.

Events since the sale make it look even worse. The system has snagged an unwary couple who, after a day or two of foolishness, may have to pay out a fortune in return for nothing. Even worse, the house has since been proved to have been overpriced.

Derek’s buyer might be on the hook legally, but not IMHO morally.

So when is a signed contract NOT a contract!

They signed! Close the deal! Turn around and flip it! Lessons learned.

#150 Ron Maiden on 05.04.17 at 10:18 am

#98 Keith in Calgary on 05.03.17 at 11:24 pm

The RE pumpers who continually say that Toronto or Vancouver are world class cities like New York, London, or Tokyo have never been to any of them.

That’s why they say such stupid things.
———————————————————
So what is it that makes a world class city? More Starbucks on every corner?

I personally like small towns and cities – more pleasant

#151 Stan Broock on 05.04.17 at 10:21 am

North american scheisse dollar aka ‘the loonie’ continues its descent.

Losing 0.5-0.8 % DAILY against the euro, with similar but slightly lower decline against the USD.

It seems we could hit 0.5x handle this year with a USD rate hike in June pretty much certain and the ‘leadership’ of BOC and the financial minister ‘monitoring’ the situation. 0.6x is an absolute certainty, probably coming as early as May/this month.

#152 Livin Large on 05.04.17 at 10:46 am

Naww, D’s buyers are both legally and especially morally obligated but BFD, there is abdolutely zero chance in this world they are going to be coughing up anything like the shortfall. Just won’t happen so poor D should cut his losses and lick his wounds and move on.

If he absolutely must do something to feel better then dropping his claim to the maximum the small claims court allows in his jurisdiction and getting a judgement (likely a default judgement) will be his only way to salve his hurt feelings.

I can’t see the buyers dropping a bankruptcy dime for the SCC judgement level so his chances of collecting on a judgement are a bit better and at least he has a place to start to enforce the SCC judgement since he already knows where they bank although that’s fairly simple to change.

Anything more than SCC will drag out for years and cost a fortune in legals for D and he WILL end up paying those legals as he goes so, cut and run D or get maybe $10,000 after a few months of running around.

#153 Acedan on 05.04.17 at 11:11 am

I would have let the guy buy his way out, what a headache.

#154 Northwind on 05.04.17 at 11:25 am

#110 Rates vs Capital on 05.04.17 at 12:43 am

Well said. If truth hurts, it is better to hide it, but as a society, we cannot embed our heads in sands for too long. The truth is too obvious to hide.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-real-estate-foreign-1.4097935

#155 X on 05.04.17 at 11:41 am

Curious to see when the US Fed does another quarter point increase, June, Sept…

Hopefully the US economy will continue to chug along, and bring our RE market to reality.

#156 Bad News Bears on 05.04.17 at 11:46 am

It’s terrible… houses in C13 are still selling. At a bit lower clip, to be sure, but after some dusting off, the under $2mil segment is still chugging along at February prices. Bears should run and hide behind our premier’s skirt.

#157 Long-Time Lurker on 05.04.17 at 11:55 am

I think the two Canadian housing bubbles are going to collapse starting now. I can understand why the politicos were afraid to do anything. There are going to be a lot of angry people when this is over.

#158 minimart me on 05.04.17 at 11:59 am

#133 Grey Dog on 05.04.17 at 8:52 am

117 DON recommendations for who will play Garth in the Big Short II – Canada

1. Harrison Ford. Action Figure a disrupter
2. Morgan Freeman. Voice of God
3. Martin Sheen. Played President for a few seasons
4. Christopher Plummer. Isn’t he Canadian?”

I think Mike Myers would be better…it could be Garth’s Austin Powers/Dr Evil moment that he has so been craving for.

#159 Bad News Bears on 05.04.17 at 12:15 pm

#110 Rates vs Capital on 05.04.17 at 12:43 am
“Is it really a coincidence that months after the BC Foreign Buyers tax gets implemented there were Vancouver-like massive price increases in the GTA, as buyers get diverted elsewhere? That months after the BC Foreign Buyers Tax is put into place we have a 7 fold increase in the number of ‘official’ foreign buyers in Victoria and a 20% increase in Victoria prices, where the tax does not apply?
And is it any coincidence that after 6 weeks of the Ontario government advertising in detail their ‘forthcoming’ market measures, that capital is being diverted back to Vancouver? ”

————————————————————–

You are leaving out some details.. BC has eased up on some restrictions for ‘foreign’ buyers. Wisely I would say, in a country that is made up mostly of immigrants. Also domestic investors (or speculators if you wish) can also sense how the wind blows.

#160 Dan.t on 05.04.17 at 12:18 pm

Raise interest rates and actually tax people who own multiple properties. I mean actually enforce it and tax them capital gains and rental income.

Everyone is simply skirting the rules and earning tax free money while other investments are easily controlled and regulated by government.

There is no supply simply because Canadians are buying and hording the supply and waiting on the next greater fool.

Until buyers go on strike and fools stop participating or some other event happens (and there is always an event that ends a bubble), then it keeps going. Like a giant ponzi scheme.

Those greater fools can afford it because government tax grants and incentives and insanely low interest rates and super lax lending policies.

Seriously, this stupidity has gone on long enough… and when crap hits the fan, wait for the government bail out. It is coming.

That is our society today…irresponsible actions have no consequences and the masses who get burned will cry foul and government will bail them out one way or another- just another punch to the nose of those who lived within their mean, didn’t sign up for bank servitude…

I guess the lesson is join the herd, do as everyone is doing so when it goes bad, everyone can justify it together and since it is so wide spread, government has to act to bail them out.

Or I’m slowly thinking that the consensus is take all the free money you can get, leverage as much as possible and if it goes sour, just go bankrupt. Is this the secret plan? I mean obviously Canadians don’t actually plan on paying back debt- there is 2 trillion of it after all- that’s quite a bit.

#161 Renter's Revenge! on 05.04.17 at 12:20 pm

The S&P500 in CAD is up 25% over the past 12 months, same as Toronto houses, plus dividends (and no property tax, utilities or maintenance).

https://www.google.ca/finance?q=TSE%3AVFV&ei=8FMLWfC_JMeC2Abt3r-gBQ

What’s the big deal?

#162 Doug in London on 05.04.17 at 12:20 pm

@soost, post #149:
If real estate prices in Toronto and Vancouver take a dive, in the short term it will cause a lot of pain. In the long run however, it will be the BEST thing to happen to Canada since Confederation, 150 years ago. Why? It will reduce the cost of business doing here and make our country a more cost competitive place to do business. Has anyone noticed of the more affluent countries of the world the economic recovery in the United States has been the best, with the economy growing and producing an abundance of jobs while many other economies still struggle? Has anyone noticed that spectacular recovery occurred AFTER the housing bubble burst? Is it a coincidence? Of course not. If this housing bubble bursts, after a year or 2 of adjustments, expect a similar economic recovery here. Bring it on!

#163 Y on 05.04.17 at 12:32 pm

#108 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.04.17 at 12:31 am

@Smoking Man JD paloozaa
“Got some loot coming my way soon. Do I just come to the genral store and talk business. Or call up the bay street number at Turner investments so ryan and Doug can show off their cars.
Bringing the wife’s car to dogapaluza. Hoping to interview Doug and Ryan…..”
********

O…..M……G…..

I trust the policeman/security guard in yesterdays video is still for hire at the Belfountain Doo?
………………………………………………………………
Turner Investments is at
40 King Street West
Suite 5300
Toronto, Ontario
M5H 3Y2
Just take transit there or your pickup truck. Hey,
why not come to dogapolooza in the Ford pickup truck with the cracked windshield? At least we will know its the real Smoky.

#164 bdwy sktrn on 05.04.17 at 12:42 pm

Wrongful Ministry of Health Employee Firings (one employee took his life. RIP). Disgusting.
—————–
no question the firings were wrong.

people are wrongly fired everyday, we have lawyers for that. people also go through 100x worse things everyday. they get through it.

this guy’s problems were far larger than anything the libs did.

————-
latest:
“Clark says her plan is to lower or freeze taxes, while Horgan is planning is to raise them.”

= lib majority.

#165 bdwy sktrn on 05.04.17 at 12:51 pm

#121 nubbers on 05.04.17 at 3:26 am

Derek’s buyer might be on the hook legally, but not IMHO morally.
—————–
yeah…try that with some etf’s. what a splendidly silly idea.

remind me never to sign any contracts with you.

we call that being a ‘flake’ round here.

#166 Smartalox on 05.04.17 at 12:59 pm

Re: the BC election.

The BC voters pushing for ‘anyone but Clark’ cite long lists of past ‘scandals’ to justify their choices. I have two problems with this.

First, for all the hew and cry of scandal, the majority of this province has done remarkably well over the last 15 years. BC is an internationally recognized powerhouse in Medical devices, Medical research, Technology, Tourism, E-commerce, and Food and Drink, even, yes, property development. Note that some of industries that didn’t even exist in this Province under the last NDP governments. Everyone watches the waves crash on the shore, but it’s the rising tide that floats your boats.

Second, most people in election season bitch about the sins of the past (make America great again?). But elections are not about the past, they’re about the FUTURE.
People vote FOR things, right?

To that end, I have not seen any compelling plans from the NDP. There was an unrealistic plan build market housing on crown land (most of which is subject to treaty dispute), and an eagerness to channel money to the Teachers’ union, that has already been mandated by court order. Surely that will help the kids of the “Lost Generation” who are now all off to college. Maybe if they’re in teacher’s college?

The only other pledge that comes to mind is that the NDP is going to make people in the north of BC pay for bridges built in Vancouver’s suburbs. No mention of disbanding the crown Corp that manages toll collection on those bridges, though.

Horgan is a labour leader, so naturally his focus is on internal economies: unions don’t trade their labour internationally. The NDP plan to ‘boost the economy’ is to use taxpayer dollars to build government hospitals for BC residents. It just slushes money around, (with everyone getting their cut) without bringing new money into the system.

Everyone whinges about ‘foreign buyers’ in RE, but those BC residents that took foreign buyers’ money? They spent that foreign money on local goods and services, for the most part.

That’s how you grow an economy – you create new revenue streams, or you sell outside your borders to increase wealth.

BC should not go back to being a ‘company town’, where the local industry takes the profits, cuts the cheques, and the local residents go about re-allocating what’s left, amongst themselves.

But whatever, go vote for REVENGE. Take your revenge for scandals where special self interests made a lot of noise, or people acted deplorably in front of news cameras, but that really, truly didn’t affect your life or livelihood very much.

Bark at the waves, ignore the tide.

#167 Damifino on 05.04.17 at 1:03 pm

What’s up with oil today… or should I say down?

#168 Manitoba Whale on 05.04.17 at 1:07 pm

traderJim on 05.04.17 at 9:09 am
People who think it’s no big deal to walk away from a RE contract are the types who can’t see the unintended consequences of government policies and stupid laws. Try to think one step ahead for once.
****
I agree with you wholeheartedly. We all rise and fall by our actions, and sometimes there is financial realities.
Get stoic and remove emotions from serious decisions and think critically. If you can’t, find someone can do it for you.
Personally I rue the bad decisions that I have made, ones that cannot be changed. Emotional bias that led to those decisions is a lesson learned.
Oddly enough, a story from the past. Our little corporation sold one of our businesses in 2008; 24 hours after signing the new owner came back to us with regret and fear. We said no problem, we want a win/win, we will tear up the deal. The catch, our business was hot, and in demand. If times were tough in the industry that we are in, at the time, we would have acted differently.
It is what it is.

#169 McLovin on 05.04.17 at 1:09 pm

What, you mean that Kathleen Wynne’s measures to fix this weren’t well thought out, won’t be effective, and were just a knee jerk reaction to appease the masses? Who woulda thought??

#170 bdwy sktrn on 05.04.17 at 1:18 pm

#145 SWL1976 on 05.04.17 at 9:55 am
#95 bdwy sktrn

#72 WUL …and severity of natural disasters

You have been had.
——————————–
says the chemtrails guy!
got your gas mask handy?

//////////////and traderjim: LOL – now that was a burn. well done.

#171 smallcapsteve on 05.04.17 at 1:19 pm

There are two outcomes here as I see it.

1) The dollar is heading below 60 cents, and we see big inflation.

2) A crash/correction. Some markets will see a 50 percent drop while others will see a smaller drop…

These are your two possible outcomes…. And I know what Poloz wants.

Some people say “How can you raise rates when it impacts markets where housing isn’t going up?”

The answer is simple: “Okay, then those marks will soon be paying 10-30% more for groceries.”

Pick your poison. This ends badly one way or another.

#172 Ron Maiden on 05.04.17 at 1:20 pm

Whats up with oil today – better hold $45 or this is headed back to $26ish

frack Trump frack!

#173 Xbox Economist on 05.04.17 at 1:30 pm

“And while speculation sure exists (especially in the new condo trade), prospecting and flipping on an epic scale is far more prevalent in the sales trailer featured in yesterday’s vid.”

The same board that you quoted as saying foreign buyers are minimal also said speculation and “flipping” is also not a problem.

TREB deals with resales, not pre-construction offers. — Garth

#174 maxx on 05.04.17 at 1:31 pm

#17 common sense on 05.03.17 at 6:28 pm

“Raise rates, pop all the bubbles and have the billions of people in debt to their eyeballs because of the mistakes made by Central Banks the past fend for themselves? Imagine the masses in limbo? Think about it.”

Central Banks have an additional tool via this “tug-of-war” mentality. Truth is, cb’s have painted most of humanity into the current nasty, low to no-interest policy corner starting in the mid-90s. This unleashed an unparalleled run on credit, causing a pandemic of huge economic distortion.

The mere mention of raising rates brings out every variety of Chicken Little excuse known to man.
Raising rates won’t damage the economy – quite the opposite. IF done correctly.
10bps per quarter will heal the economy by restoring value to money and forcing borrowers to pay back debt.
Those completely devoid of a cheque-book balancing gene can see debt counselors and start over….never had a clue, likely never will and won’t impact the economy much.
Raising rates slowly is a great act and gives most people a chance to wake up, learn to respect money and by extension liberate themselves from insane levels of debt.

Of course,there is the little matter of bank profits derived from those insane levels of debt………….

#175 Manitoba Whale on 05.04.17 at 1:32 pm

161 Dan.t on 05.04.17 at 12:18 pm
That is our society today…irresponsible actions have no consequences and the masses who get burned will cry foul and government will bail them out one way or another- just another punch to the nose of those who lived within their mean, didn’t sign up for bank servitude
****

I can’t think of how they could possibly be bailed out, tax free dollars and all. Unfortunately, govenments may find a way, needing to be elected and all that…
I really want a fair and equitable society, and horses with a single horn. Sadly, human nature gets in the way, and we all live in the balance of our successes and our failings, and in the circumstances we are born into.
I just don’t know the equation to personal responsibility.

#176 bdwy sktrn on 05.04.17 at 1:35 pm

oil : wow.

stepped off the tracks on that one a few weeks ago. thank god.

will buy like a crazed man in the lower 30’s if it gets there

#177 TSX on 05.04.17 at 1:38 pm

…into the red she shall go

ONLY oil could save her. Hate to say i told ya all….

#178 Doug in London on 05.04.17 at 1:45 pm

@Damifino, post #168 and Ron Maiden, post #173:
Look on the bright sale, oil companies are on sale again. If you don’t know what companies to buy, XEG is also on sale, trading at just under $12.

#179 Stan Broock on 05.04.17 at 1:48 pm

El dollaro crappo.

CAD/EUR (CADEUR=X)

0.6616-0.0072 (-1.08%)

#180 jess on 05.04.17 at 1:48 pm

interesting

The Housing Recovery That Wasn’t

https://www.trulia.com/blog/trends/home-value-recovery-2017/

#181 Leo Trollstoy on 05.04.17 at 2:08 pm

1) The dollar is heading below 60 cents, and we see big inflation.

2) A crash/correction. Some markets will see a 50 percent drop while others will see a smaller drop…

Neither of these will happen

#182 Blacksheep on 05.04.17 at 2:29 pm

Don # 119,

“Let’s talk about stuff that matters.”

“The only thing propping up the BC economy is real estate pumping among other shady activities.”
———————————————
Many here want the RE ‘bubble’ to pop, but I believe this is one of those, careful what you wish for situations.

Lets say, housing tanks 35% in Van and TO, ala US of A.

Do you think you/others will be buying houses….then?

Is this the bottom, price wise? How do you know? Is your employment secure enough, in a post crash situation? What about your spouses job? Will a bank accept your mortgage? If so, at what interest rate? Are you willing to risk all those funds from your balanced portfolio you’ve been saving for years? Will said portfolio survive unscathed in a national housing crash? Will you get evicted from your rental because the landlord wants to sell to limit loses?

Since a Canadian RE crash will hurt the Can $ big time, how much real world, (US$) loss of wealth are you going to personally experience, regardless of whether or not you own RE ?

If you already own RE, how big an equity (paper) loss are you going experience and will it effect your retirement plans?

I found out the hard way, attempting to time the RE market is a bad plan. To many players in motion. Things rise or fall in value based on Demand vs Supply.

Right now there is a lot of demand so I’m riding the wave of demand until something changes.

Christy Baby knows we have to keep on riding the demand wave or we’ll all find out the answers to the questions posed above.

Besides…..

How many more years are you willing to wait for this cycle to fully complete, (if ever) before you can buy your RE, stop obsessing over this blog and get on with your life?

I re entered the RE market 3 years ago, after 5 years of renting and fully embracing the dogma presented here daily. It’s been one of the smartest economic, quality of life moves, I’ve made in a long time.

#183 People are Strange on 05.04.17 at 2:34 pm

When it comes to foreign ownership of our prized residential real estate, why the heck do we care if they get nailed with a tax. I say make it 25-30%. Our kids are the ones who are going to suffer for all this craziness!

#184 Ink Floyd on 05.04.17 at 2:35 pm

#173 Ron Maiden on 05.04.17 at 1:20 pm

nice handle.

#185 Sideshow Rob on 05.04.17 at 2:50 pm

If you are into technical analysis, it looks like the Canadian dollar has busted all support and is heading to 68 cents. That could be a bottom or just a resting point. Either way the world is showing a massive vote of non confidence in Canada. Lots of talk down south of selling all things Canada and shorting anything remotely tied to real estate. Our banks have a bulls eye on them today. I have a feeling the vulching opportunities will be historic in 3 years time or so. Unfortunately our currency might be really taken to the wood shed by then. The average guy buying a 1.5 mil house in TO has absolutely no clue what’s about to hit him.

Relax. It’s oil. — Garth

#186 ChrisK on 05.04.17 at 3:43 pm

Pardon me. What is FOMO?

#187 Rates vs Capital on 05.04.17 at 3:49 pm

Oh my, all that waiting to what again?

Did all those posters even get to sample a piece of their popcorn waiting for the show to happen? Still waiting for the show to begin? You better move on to another movie theatre because the show has been cancelled…onwards and upwards!

As I said, before, the BC provincial government adopted the 15% tax based on Hong Kong’s experience with the same tax – after 6 months, it was business as usual in HK, and the foreign capital pushed prices up again…

Now the timing is just a little off for the BC government – they had a couple of months of looking like it was going to cool the market before the election to make things look good. The price resurgence before the election makes things a little more awkward now.

And since the foreign buyers tax was apparently not instrumental to the ‘plunge in sales in Vancouver’ – and ‘just a tipping point’ – why is there the uptick in prices now?

Hmmmmm…let me think

Vancouver Housing Market Rebounds
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/vancouver+housing+market+rebounds+from+impact+with+prices+three/13340267/story.html

Another great read by the esteemed NT Times on the tour of foreign capital in BC real estate:

““The government is selling B.C. as a tax haven for the global elite to park investment here, but not have to contribute.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/canada/british-columbias-business-temptation-an-opaque-array-of-tax-breaks.html?_r=0

#188 Bw on 05.04.17 at 3:54 pm

How much of a deposit did the first buyer forfeit?

#189 cramar on 05.04.17 at 4:07 pm

#126 maxx on 05.04.17 at 7:16 am

Cottages are so over-rated outside of June, July and August anyway.

——————

Cottage ownership is always over-rated.

Actually we find the best time to rent is Sept. You can still get beautiful weather sans humidity, plus rents are cheaper. Most cottagers have to get the kids back to school come Sept. so you can get a bargain. And overcrowding is gone!

It is sweet when you don’t have to work for a living and have the freedom.

#190 housing and oil on 05.04.17 at 4:15 pm

The Perfect Storm

:)

#191 Corey Muller on 05.04.17 at 4:23 pm

Hi Garth,
I would like to see a statistic on this.
Percentage of buyers who have become a Canadian resident in the last 2-3 yrs.
I think think conversion from foreign to local is misrepresenting the stats.

Immigrants are good, no? Where do you (or your parents, grandparents) come from? — Garth

#192 espressobob on 05.04.17 at 4:33 pm

One of the biggest advantages of owning a globally diversified portfolio along with a position in forex is the ability to not give a damn about commodity moves.

That is so boring, just like ones portfolio should be.

#193 Jerry on 05.04.17 at 4:44 pm

Could it be possible that maybe derricks buyer had the same thing happened to him?

#194 Buyers desperately trying to get out of deals on 05.04.17 at 4:45 pm

Canada’s housing ponzi scheme is falling apart. Buyers are desperate to get out of deals as its not obvious the crash is here and now

#195 Jerry on 05.04.17 at 4:52 pm

Domestic buyers don’t offer hundreds of thousands of dollars and more to already over inflated prices, just to let The property sit empty this must be out of town buyers.

#196 NoName on 05.04.17 at 5:13 pm

#196 Jerry on 05.04.17 at 4:52 pm

I can tell you that domesticated Canadian pays asking price or bids over asking price. Recently few of my “friends” did exactly that, sold for over asking and purchased for asking or above. Some are bit stressed now…

Better question is how many foreign people, real or imaginers takes to move market up or down.

In a case of dancing man Sasquatch music festival 2009 took only 3 people to make enough of critical mas for masees to start random dancing.

There is Ted talk somewhere about it.

https://youtu.be/GA8z7f7a2Pk

#197 NoName on 05.04.17 at 5:21 pm

Here is Ted talk. Watch.

https://youtu.be/V74AxCqOTvg

#198 slick on 05.04.17 at 5:48 pm

#104 in the hammer;

paid 210K
will rent for $1300 easily
property tax 1500

15600 total rent
-4476 first year mortgage interest 2.7% 25 year mort 20% down payment
-1500 property tax
-2000 maintenance

6524 positive cash flow
44500 down payment and closing costs

14.6% cash on cash return.

and that’s with no appreciation folks.
———————————-

good luck to your friend, but I have an issue with the math. yes 14.6% on the cash investment, but only 3.1% on total $210K cost. and let us not forget that $6524 is taxable at a rate highest per his income. Assuming he has a job, likely 35%+ goes to tax.
Now he can try to solve the tax issue by depreciating the rental at 5%/year on $210 K, but that lowers the cost base $10K/year, which will be taxed as a capital gain when he sells. New rules mean no personal CG exemptions. You also haven’t factored in any other costs ie; repairs, insurance, or 1 time extra maintenance charges, which will bring the income down.
Now, as a forced investment plan, ya it might turn out Ok, but he also as to deal with tenants. Also waiting in the wings is 4% real estate commission when he sells.
Everything has to go perfectly, including a capital gain for the next 20 years.

I have looked at this scenario from every which way, and I am thinking that CAR.un or AX.un is a lot easier way to go. You get the dividend tax credit, and if you wake up one morning and need PART of the equity, you can have it in your account in minutes at $9.99.

If you care to take this discussion of the board, I am on Twitter @margincall1

#199 akashic record on 05.04.17 at 6:23 pm

Immigrants are good, no? Where do you (or your parents, grandparents) come from? — Garth

===

Depends… Have you ever asked Native Americans?

#200 MaxBerniersShorts on 05.04.17 at 6:28 pm

#110 Rates vs Capital: Your assessments are spot on, thank you.

#201 slick on 05.04.17 at 6:29 pm

#104 in the hammer;

paid 210K
will rent for $1300 easily
property tax 1500

15600 total rent
-4476 first year mortgage interest 2.7% 25 year mort 20% down payment
-1500 property tax
-2000 maintenance

6524 positive cash flow
44500 down payment and closing costs

14.6% cash on cash return.

and that’s with no appreciation folks.
———————————-

good luck to your friend, but I have an issue with the math. yes 14.6% on the cash investment, but only 3.1% on total cost. and let us not forget that $6524 is taxable at a rate highest per his income. Assuming he has a job, likely 35% goes to tax.
Now he can try to solve the tax issue by depreciating the rental at 5%/year on $210 K, but that lowers the cost base $10K, which will be taxed as a capital gain when he sells. New rules mean no personal CG exemptions. You also haven’t factored in any other costs ie; repairs, insurance, or 1 time extra maintenance charges, which will bring the income down.
Now, as a forced investment plan, ya it might turn out Ok, but he also as to deal with tenants. Also waiting in the wings is 4% real estate commission when he sells.
I have looked at this scenario from every which way, and I am thinking that CAR.un or AX.un is a lot easier way to go. You get the dividend tax credit, and if you wake up one morning and need PART of the equity, you can have it in your account in minutes at $9.99.

#202 Mark on 05.04.17 at 6:34 pm

“Domestic buyers don’t offer hundreds of thousands of dollars and more to already over inflated prices, just to let The property sit empty this must be out of town buyers.”

If they’re not truly arms-length buyers, they most certainly do. To create the allusion of rising prices, or simply to allow their buddy to refinance an otherwise minimal equity by creating a higher reference valuation.

For instance, “assignment flipping” was an example of not truly arms-length transactants in most cases. As a true arms-length transactant would never agree to, nor would ever be permitted to by their lender, to engage in a transaction for which they did not acquire nor convey clear title.

#203 crowdedelevatorfartz on 05.04.17 at 7:01 pm

@#187 ChrisK
FOMO
Fear Of Missing Out
a la missing out of the purchase of a house because everyone is pushing and screaming to buy first…….

#204 Con Fuscious on 05.04.17 at 10:58 pm

Everybody with half a brain knew there weren’t that many foreign buyers, although sure, any additional buyers in this market can push prices up a bit more. And then there was the myth. But there’s so much manipulation in the media – I’m convinced there was an agenda to push Wynne into doing something stupid and she complied. All these bank analysts pushing for foreign buyers tax?? Free marketeers that they are asking govt for a little old fashioned intervention? Unbelievable.

Then there is this other bizzaro story, HCG. There were some irregularities, the company addressed them, fired some brokers… but the media just wouldn’t stop. They bring this dubious (no) character gringo, Cahones, over and over and give him a microphone to spew all kinds of accusations directed at the company, politicians, OSC.. no proof of anything of course. Then the OSC gives in and opens an investigation into… misleading statements by the company irt dwindling mortgage originations (???) the same week Wynne introduces her misguided and ill times housing measures? That’s too much incompetency , sorry.. truly incredible. The depositors start to unnecessarily withdraw their cash while NOBODY in the media even bothers to mention CDIC… Yet somehow I think everything will be OK by the end of the year, if they can only STOP behaving so irresponsibly ..NOW. You would think there are some real problems (trade, deficits, illegal border crossings, health care, infrastructure etc – all the things gubernments are actually elected to deal with) and you’d be RIGHT.

#205 Pre-retiree on 05.05.17 at 1:20 pm

#205 Con Fuscious

I see the situation so differently than you, we could not be further apart. I even wonder if your name should be “Con Fusion”.