Misery 4

FASTENERS modified

I’m sure it wasn’t Ray’s idea. The Norfolk Country, small-town backroads realtor is a gentle dude with an air of 18th Century aw-shucks formality about him while embodying something in short supply these days. Ethics.

Disclosure: I bought a lakefront property through his little brokerage a decade ago. He sold it for me a few years later. In a bidding war, no less.

Well, Ray Ferris is president of the realtors’ cartel for all of Ontario these days, and I imagine his bald pate may have furrowed a little as he sent out a media release this week showing that our youth have been terminally afflicted with FOMO. The reason, says Ray, is obvious. The kids believe this is “a good long-term investment.”

And here we thought they were just waiting for Justin to give them weed. ‘Long term investing’. Who knew?

Well, let’s end Misery Week on a particularly miserable note. The most over-educated, sheltered, uber-parented generation ever to walk this earth has inherited the worst characteristics of their parents. House lust. Financial illiteracy. Nesting. Good-bye backpacking through Europe to find yourself or chasing a career four provinces away. Hello mortgage and property tax. Lawn and minivan. Eavestrough repair. We are so screwed.

According to the realtors’ survey of Gen Yers, 51% plan on buying a property within the next two years – a big jump from the past. Just over half of these little hornies say they want a detached house. And almost eight in ten (77%) say it’s because real estate is a no-brainer, always-goes-up asset, which is 7% more than last year. Wow.

Of course, houses have never cost more than they do now. Incomes are stagnant. Unemployment’s increasing and the economy fizzling. Despite that, the key reason cited by the kids for walking into epic debt and less mobility was simple: “the desire to own a home.” Ah yes, we’ve taught them well. And the higher prices go, the greater that desire. It’s classic buy-now-or-buy-never behaviour.

So, let’s share the misery sloshing around this pathetic blog, and try to save the minnows from themselves.

Here’s a start:

VAN SALES 1 modified

That’s right. Behind those boffo, dizzying price stats announced every thirty days in Vancouver there’s a darker story – seriously declining sales numbers for detached homes. Kinda makes you wonder. Are we hitting a wall? With prices wobbling higher on thinning volume while BC purposefully plays whack-a-mole with foreign buyers and average families face houses they can never afford, how can this have a good outcome?

Burnaby -49.6%
Coquitlam -46.9%
Delta-South -22%
Maple Ridge-Pitt Meadows -20.7%
New Westminster -5%
North Vancouver -14.6%
Port Coquitlam -34.3%
Richmond -43.5%
Vancouver East -21.4%
Vancouver West -30.3%
Whistler -6%

Meanwhile in Toronto, the market shows equally worrisome signs, even as the media (and Gen Y) sees only rising prices. The number of active listings has cratered by more than 30% with homeowners too greedy (houses only go up) or scared (can’t afford to move) to go to market, even though harvesting a big, windfall, tax-free gain is logical.

Besides, look at sales in the Kingdom of 416. Detached deals were down 6.5% in July from last year. Sales of semis fell 11.5% and townhouse transactions were lower by 6%. As prices shoot higher, what consumers can afford dips – so only condo sales showed a gain.

Given this (plus the issues already chronicled this week) why do people think real estate is golden? Because we’re manipulated, month after month by realtor stats comparing the present to a year ago, masking important market trends and burying key data. Housing analyst Ross Kay looked at this week’s statistics from Vancouver and concluded: “Peak Pricing was reached in Vancouver in February 2016 when that single month’s Average reached $1,109,409 which has now fallen each consecutive month until this July when that single months price dropped below the average of the previous 11 months all together.”

So, sorry Ray. Stop with the surveys and fomenting the FOMO. A decent guy in a position of influence is rare. Use it for good. Leave the misery to us.

 

 

 

212 comments ↓

#1 Randy on 08.04.16 at 7:31 pm

If I can’t sell your house I will buy it for 40% of the asking price.

#2 the other white meat(pork) on 08.04.16 at 7:32 pm

First! I can taste the victory!

#3 When will they learn on 08.04.16 at 7:33 pm

First! And first to say no correction in the GTA!

#4 sm on 08.04.16 at 7:35 pm

thirst

#5 manderson on 08.04.16 at 7:35 pm

FIRST!

#6 Smartalox on 08.04.16 at 7:35 pm

Whoa! Don’t tar us Gen Xers (b.1965 to 1984) with those shifty Gen Y’s (b.1985 to 2004).

Gen X either owns its Real Estate already, or are more preoccupied with how to pay for retirement.

Leave the FOMO to Gen Y.

#7 Julie K. on 08.04.16 at 7:37 pm

If your happy, and you know it, clap your hands!

#8 the other white meat(pork) on 08.04.16 at 7:39 pm

I’ve met some very decent people selling real estate in small towns. There might be some in the city too but I’ve had the misfortune of dealing with some really oily maggots here in YVR. With sales declining that will probably get worse in the near future.

#9 Victoria Real Estate Update on 08.04.16 at 7:39 pm

COOLING TREND: SALES OF DETACHED HOUSES TAKE A BIG HIT IN JULY

Vancouver doesn’t stand alone – it’s apparent that tiny little Victoria is also experiencing a significant cooling down of sales of detached houses.

. . . . . . . .Greater Victoria. . . . . . . .
Monthly Detached House Sales Totals
. . . . . Compared to April 2016. . . . . .
———————————————————–
April…….*******************
May…….***************
June……************
July……..***
————————————————————
. . . .-40%. . . . . -20%. . . . . .0%.

(Source: Victoria’s R/E board)

Sales of detached houses were down 23% month-over-month across Greater Victoria.

It’s apparent this is part of a trend that began after April.

Monthly sales totals compared to April 2016:
May: down 9%
June: down 17%
July: down 36%

As I’ve said many times, house prices will begin to fall again in Victoria. It’s only a matter of time. The current trend of slower sales of detached houses suggests that time may be close.

#10 Frank on 08.04.16 at 7:39 pm

If emotional attachment can keep prices in Calgary steady 2 years after unemployment doubles and salaries decline then imagine how long the bastions of delusion can hang on. People not wanting to take a loss can hold out a long time with low rates. Longer if Polo cuts again this year. If prices fall, expect it to take 5 years to notice.

In the meantime, anyone found a decent rental in 604?

#11 Jim on 08.04.16 at 7:42 pm

Been reading and enjoying your blog for years. Have to agree with you most of the time. But now you have done it, making fun of eavestroughers. Hey! We have feelings too.

#12 Hatemyselfforthis on 08.04.16 at 7:43 pm

First

#13 Say What? on 08.04.16 at 7:44 pm

“Of course, houses have never cost more than they do now.” – Garth

———————————————————–

I have to point out the obvious. This same statement has often been repeated these last eight years. On this blog. And RE has only continued to go through the roof. I think there is likely still some upside left.

#14 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.04.16 at 7:44 pm

Forget FOMO and suspect realtor spin.
The real reason greaterfools keep buying?

Misery loves company

#15 Mark on 08.04.16 at 7:46 pm

I gotta say, its fun when my similarly aged peers (I was born between 1965 and 1992) think that locking up all their money in housing is a good thing. Leaves stocks cheap for me to buy, and credit very cheap for a long time into the future as the bubble inevitably collapses into a deflationary quagmire.

If you take the average price of a Canadian house (~$400k) , and merely invest that in stocks at P/E of 15, and a normal long-term real earnings growth rate of 3%, that’s an implied $44k/year of after tax income. Its incredible, when you think of it, just how much many homeowners are leaving on the table by being overly invested in one severely overpriced asset class.

#16 Fitgeek on 08.04.16 at 7:49 pm

Born up to 1980 is generally considered the start of Gen-X, not Gen-Y. Gen-X is ignored in this blog post. As usual. Though the source survey clearly looked at Gen X & Y as separate demographic entities.

#17 common sense on 08.04.16 at 7:54 pm

Manipulation of stats? Never!

In real estate, financial planning, government fiscal planning, most sales…

Nice to see Bank Of England lower rates today to the lowest in over 300 years…

Yes, looks like everything is right on track!

#18 Gramps on 08.04.16 at 7:59 pm

Hopefully “misery” week is followed by “possible solution” week….
Had enough of this “we are so screwed” commentary
Starting to realize how Trump gets people to vote for him
Gramps wants the “good-ol-days” back too….

#19 Quebec is Great on 08.04.16 at 8:00 pm

Misery would not fully encapsulate the level of dread and foreboding I’d feel right now if I were a highly leveraged owner of a detached house in Vancouver at this moment in time.

#20 Spock on 08.04.16 at 8:01 pm

http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mortgages-real-estate/millennials-not-giving-up-on-the-detached-home-dream

Yes Yes . .. let us buy the detached home as soon as we get our first job. Even though we may have to pay for it the entire life and beyond. Puzzling but if this what they are learning after school .. I weep for humanity.

#21 nonplused on 08.04.16 at 8:03 pm

According to Wikipedia Gen Y (the millennials) start around 1980 and end sometime in the early 2000’s.

Gen X (sometime in the early 1960’s to around 1980) are mostly all fully committed to the housing market if they wanted to buy. They represent the “trade up” market more so than the new buyer market. Still a house-horny lot though.

#22 Lulu on 08.04.16 at 8:11 pm

Well…. Richmond Hill hit 1.5 mil, Markham hit 1.4 and Aurora hit 1.2mil top Toronto, Not too far behind Vancity, what is the logic behind all this price gain? Like Garth said, it’s all paper gain unless you sell, holding it right now may harm you more when the crash come. Greed is good only when you know when to step out and reap your windfall, you can’t win it all.

#23 ahoy-hoy on 08.04.16 at 8:11 pm

Whoa – wait a sec….houses don’t always go up? I should look at my portfolio….Should I sell my Bre-X shares now or just wait a few more days?

#24 rk usa on 08.04.16 at 8:13 pm

every day this real estate market gets sillier and sillier

there is seriously something wrong with this Country

#25 Smoking Man on 08.04.16 at 8:14 pm

Exactly……!!!!

But I’m still long Long Branch. I like here. Plus the Phyco Snow Flake generation is well east of here.

Living between two shit processing centres has its advantages..

#26 John the Scot. on 08.04.16 at 8:16 pm

Just got back from a quick 2 hr trip to Point Roberts. South facing lots there at are going for over US$500K – looks like the mania has affected those poor souls there as well !!

#27 bdwy sktrn on 08.04.16 at 8:17 pm

#202 Context on 08.04.16 at 5:56 pm
… there is a parallel system in competition where sales and rentals are taking place with the older system.

———————-
are you drunk?

home’s get sold at a singular market price. period.

it seems you are suggesting sellers are using craigslist to sell way below market price.

you’re not for real, dude, ya just trolling us right?

#28 macroman on 08.04.16 at 8:18 pm

Given this (plus the issues already chronicled this week) why do people think real estate is golden?

See Garth, you too are a closet bullion licker…

#29 Ronaldo on 08.04.16 at 8:21 pm

Time to revisit the Florida real estate bubble of 1926

http://www.investopedia.com/features/crashes/crashes4.asp

#30 NoName on 08.04.16 at 8:23 pm

First i did after work today was, I drove to grocery store to buy some deep fried smelt, but when i saw beer i instantly forgot why i came there at first place, so i walked out with 6 pack mgd.

#31 Ronaldo on 08.04.16 at 8:29 pm

Generation X, Y, Z and others. So confusing isn’t it?

http://socialmarketing.org/archives/generations-xy-z-and-the-others/

#32 Rexx Rock on 08.04.16 at 8:30 pm

Owning a house or condo is really the only choice in Vancouver or Victoria area unless you want sub standard housing,very expensive rent,half way house living and pest infected.There you have the truth.
The government let the world buy real estate here to drive up prices and create our working class enslaved in debt.You still want to vote for the B.C. liberals.

#33 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.04.16 at 8:38 pm

@#9 V.R.E.U.
“Monthly sales totals compared to April 2016:
May: down 9%
June: down 17%
July: down 36%”
*******************************************
While I enjoy the VRE updates ….time to update the VRE charts.

Perhaps
May: – 9%
June: -17%
July: -36%

Would suffice…….

Your other charts ( *******) look very time consuming and are an exercise in squinting for the average, vitamin deprived, glasses wearing, boomer….

just a thought.

#34 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.04.16 at 8:41 pm

@#23 ahoy hoy
“Should I sell my Bre-X shares now or just wait a few more days?”
********************************************

absolutely! Sell Bre-X and invest 50% in Nortel and the other 50% in Rothmans cigarettes…..all those claims against them are pure bunk…….

#35 chopstix on 08.04.16 at 8:43 pm

my bud and his wife couldn’t resist moving back downtown from east van to the Telus garden condos at seymour/robson area…their 500sq ft bachelor was some $270k when they bought it..now it’s closer to $500…and a 1bdrm of 600sq feet going for some $680 or so…nuts!

but not to worry, that greasy asian real estate company ‘new coast’ headed by Ze Yu Wu (has been busted many times by the globe and mail’s kathy tomlinson) says that (condos) are where ”the real gold is”.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/inside-a-fast-growing-bc-firm-that-has-home-sellers-crying-foul/article29578417/

#36 Aggregator on 08.04.16 at 8:43 pm

I don't think Toronto and Vancouver is losing steam. Genworth just reported a whopping $31.7B in new mortgage insurance in Q2, up 192% yy. Plus the CMHC/Gov increased its annual MBS guarantees this year from $80B to $105B. These are huge numbers.

Taxes don't pop bubbles. Black swans do.

#37 Sebee on 08.04.16 at 8:46 pm

You’ve got to give it to them. They did it.

They made comparing numbers or knowing what the RE market is doing impossible.

#38 paulo on 08.04.16 at 8:49 pm

Anybody notice the bank of England’s moves yesterday
There real estate market and Economy looks very similar to ours

I bet that the Bank of Canada will also be forced into very similar rate cuts and yep QE part V very soon, for the same reasons

still think its a good time to be buying a property ……..

#39 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.04.16 at 8:50 pm

@#16 fitgeek
“Gen-X is ignored in this blog post. ”
*******************************************

Pretty much.
I think it started with Douglas Cowplands’ insipid generational whine of the aponymous moniker and then the mutual loathing of all things Gen-X spread from there…….but not to worry. Generation Y- bother is right behind you.
Not to be confused with………
Millenial “Hipsters” and their wretched scruffy almost manbeards that are a close second in the “loathing” category.
Right up there next to Tattoo “artists”.

Boomers will get their thirsty underwear changed by the aforementioned mortgage holders…..not because Gen X, Y, Z want to ……..because they have to……

#40 Form Man on 08.04.16 at 8:51 pm

I think the market is indeed rolling over. The builders in Kelowna are crazy busy right now, but most I talk to are watching the lower mainland nervously……..

#41 MSM-Free Zone on 08.04.16 at 8:59 pm

“According to the realtors’ survey…….”

Seriously?

Isn’t that like saying:
a) A report by the Frasier Institute today……
b) A report by the Canadian Banker’s Association…
c) A column in the National Post today….
d) A speech by Hilary Clinton today…
e) A speech by Donald Trump today…
f) A budget projection by Kathleen Wynne today…

#42 the Jaguar on 08.04.16 at 9:03 pm

The Jaguar, a jungle cat, with no hard facts or anything otherwise tangible, predicts an upsurge in interest in properties on the Atlantic coast. Where one door closes, another one opens. Some people have a preference for ocean front property to the exclusion of all other, except in a ‘passing interest” sort of way. What’s out there in places like ‘Dartmouth”, etc. (?) Dunno. I confess an ignorance but imagine great views, lobsters, grounded people with reasonable views for sure, but what else who knows? Far from the ‘maddening crowd’, for sure. The Jaguar may visit one day and find out why all those Newfoundlanders are so enamoured with Deer Lake. A mystery known only to the inhabitants of the Rock, for sure. Point is, revenge is a dish best served cold, and maybe those who have become a sudden and unexpected victim of a 15% tax will vote with their feet. They won’t protest, but will just seek out higher ground. Just don’t tell them about the brutal winters.

And take your job with you when you go. — Garth

#43 mark r on 08.04.16 at 9:05 pm

HGTV is mind control.

#44 MF on 08.04.16 at 9:12 pm

#3 When will they learn on 08.04.16 at 7:33 pm

No worries. I’ll be the first to say the GTA is going down with the whole ship. Garth is just being nice to you by talking about a “slow melt” so you will read his blog posts. This real estate movie has been played before all over the world and it always has the same ending.

#16 Fitgeek on 08.04.16 at 7:49 pm
#6 Smartalox on 08.04.16 at 7:35 pm

Yeah right. Gen X is the most house horny of all. Those who didn’t buy lost out on a once in a lifetime chance and are bitter bitter. Those that did buy typically think they are financial geniuses (serious) and are lining up to use their new found “equity” to go buy some more over priced garbage.

-In other news the BoE cut rates so they can keep up the hilarious lie that nobody believes that “the economy was hurt” by Brexit. Stay strong to the Brits and ignore this useless noise.

MF

#45 BOOM! on 08.04.16 at 9:13 pm

You guys are possessed of lunacy there in Canuckistan.

Here in the land of cow shit and beer farts in my small town 20 minutes from La Crosse, one can buy a NEW 1500 sq foot 3 br 2 pooper ranch with attached 2 car garage city water, sewer, nat gas heat for under $165,000. You can get a 30 yr mortgage under 3% as well. US taxes -if you earn $78 Grand a year are 15% plus the states 4.1% at that income. Sales taxes are 5.5% here. Smokes and booze are pretty cheap, we have not raised beer taxes since 1969.
Taxes on that 1/4 acre of crab grass will cost you $2000 a year and insurance about $350 a year. Car insurance is cheap too. We are one of the cheapest states in the country.

So, now you know why I live here. Yes, we are the U.S. where Trump vies against the Hillary for president. We don’t much give a dam either who wins. This year it is assured no matter who wins, we lose!

Average earned income here $58,700 US.

Sounds sort of like your place doesn’t it?

#46 it’s only Trump and coal (but I like it)…. on 08.04.16 at 9:15 pm

#10 Frank
“If prices fall, expect it to take 5 years to notice.”

Obfuscation matters….and works….

#47 Victor V on 08.04.16 at 9:16 pm

#25 Smoking Man

Speaking of snow flakes…

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/read-bret-easton-ellis-excoriating-monologue-on-social-justice-warriors-and-political-correctness-a7170101.html

#48 shaan on 08.04.16 at 9:19 pm

And take your job with you when you go. — Garth

Does Vancouver have any jobs ? I had no idea, I though that there was very little industry there.

#49 Linda on 08.04.16 at 9:20 pm

Frank – there may be a more fundamental reason for house prices staying steady in Calgary than emotional attachment. If selling would be at a loss & the owner can continue to make the mortgage payments (or better yet, be mortgage free) why would they sell? One must live somewhere. And if the majority of the owners are not selling then house prices are not going to dive the way they would if everyone tried to sell at the same time.

Interesting chart re: varied BC locales. ‘BURN’-aby indeed!

#50 liqudincalgary on 08.04.16 at 9:22 pm

Say What? on 08.04.16 at 7:44 pm
“Of course, houses have never cost more than they do now.” – Garth

———————————————————–

I have to point out the obvious. This same statement has often been repeated these last eight years. On this blog. And RE has only continued to go through the roof. I think there is likely still some upside left.

=====================================

so you’re buying with both hands?? good for you

#51 Context on 08.04.16 at 9:26 pm

#27 bdwy sktrn :- you discount the wonders of internet technology. I was worried about Win 10 downloading on my 5 year old system running Win 7. I needed a new backup system with Win 10 pre-installed which is still in the box. I emailed my shopper and gave her instructions to buy me an Acer on sale at BestBuy. She reserved a unit by her computer and went the next day to pay for it and deliver such to my residence. The round trip was an hour but saved $100 and I paid her back as she uses technology that takes debit or credit cards that clear in SF. I saved time and money as her fee was $25. Technology is also being used in the real estate markets and is this all new to you. Craigslist isn’t even in my playbook.

#52 lusts on 08.04.16 at 9:29 pm

The most over-educated, sheltered, uber-parented generation ever to walk this earth has inherited the worst characteristics of their parents. House lust.

===

They inherited a world that is majorly fugged up by their parents generation.

But house lust is not even in the top-tier of their shortcomings.

#53 MF on 08.04.16 at 9:29 pm

#28 macroman on 08.04.16 at 8:18 pm

Because they saw +9% on the CP24 ticker last night. Also when they see the price of a house with seven digits, like $1,200,000, people psychological place a high value on it.

Very few people trust the manipulated stock market (for good reason) too.

#17 common sense on 08.04.16 at 7:54 pm

All to continue the lie of:

Brexit = bad.

#68 LP on 08.03.16 at 8:10 pm

Beautiful post last night.

MF

Ignore.

#54 Metaxa on 08.04.16 at 9:36 pm

In a couple of months hockey will be back.

Nothing else matters, right?
I hear Toronto is going to win the Cup this year…is that true?

#55 Freedom First on 08.04.16 at 9:45 pm

I am the nicest person you will ever meet. I am always kind and considerate no matter how people treat me. I have great relationships with every single one of my ex girlfriends. They adore me. I am happy all the time.

#56 rainclouds on 08.04.16 at 9:45 pm

WTF? No misery 5? Dude That sucks……..

On another note, was Discussing the yuugest prop sale in PEI history. 4.5 mil clams . ………me assumed commission of 6% on first hundred g’s 2-3 %on remainder. Nope, 5% for total. $225k. yowsa. Buddy can buy Charlottetown ! Or a least a lobster fishing licence.

Checked deeper. Inconsistant across the country. Cartels…….

#57 Smoking Man on 08.04.16 at 9:46 pm

#47 Victor V on 08.04.16 at 9:16 pm
#25 Smoking Man

Speaking of snow flakes…

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/read-bret-easton-ellis-excoriating-monologue-on-social-justice-warriors-and-political-correctness-a7170101.html
…..

Amazing pod cast.. Thanks for the link Victor.

Did you ever think about how the word Victory came into existence..

The letter V if you have an imagination and can put a set of staletos on the two tips of the vertical axis.

Well.

I give you Victory Victor……

#58 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.04.16 at 9:47 pm

@#42 The Jaguar
“What’s out there in places like ‘Dartmouth”, ”
*******************************************
Ahhhhh yessss. Dartmouth or
“Darkness” as I used to call my old stomping grounds……..unfortunately my Haligonian friends had a more orally obscene nick name for “Dart Mouth”………
Perhaps you can get a “deal” on a cheap “fixer-upper” next to this cuddly neighbor.

http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://www.journalpioneer.com/News/Local/2016-06-13/article-4557730/Details-on-Gate-Keepers-in-Nova-Scotia/1&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjG0onEk6nOAhVD8IMKHaUaCm8QFggjMAQ&usg=AFQjCNGGqpBpgbaSZk7o_35DbFE0ghWBlQ

#59 logic on 08.04.16 at 9:57 pm

Leaves stocks cheap for me to buy..

If you take the average price of a Canadian house (~$400k) , and merely invest that in stocks at P/E of 15, and a normal long-term real earnings growth rate of 3%, that’s an implied $44k/year of after tax income.

What cheap stocks? They are all time high, inflated by helicopter money offered way more wealthy people than yourself.

You pretend that the choice is to invest $400K on a house or on the stock exchange, conveniently forgetting that virtually no house in Canada is sold for cash.

Buying house is basically the only leveraged investment option to most people – financial institutions would call the ambulance if you showed up their to borrow money for a $400K stock investment without any asset equity.

They would not lend you money to play on the stock exchange against your existing investment portfolio, either.

Even if they handed over the $400K for you, your calculation is missing the ~$20K you would spend on rent.

#60 The Dude on 08.04.16 at 10:03 pm

Seems to me like the largest drop in sales are in areas with the highest number of foreign investors;)

No impact on July numbers for a tax which did not come into effect until the next month. — Garth

#61 Vundo on 08.04.16 at 10:04 pm

“I realize trying to get Canadians to live their lives without debt is just me screaming at a brick wall, day-in, day-out, but I’m going to keep trying. Life without debt is better. Choose it.” – Bridget Eastgaard

#62 WUL on 08.04.16 at 10:04 pm

BOOM!:

Sounds nice. At Easter when I took a vacation to Calgary from the Taiga, I had my wife explain her family history after 26 years’ of marriage. Turns out that 1/32 of the blood flowing through my kid’s veins is Wisconsonite and 1/32 is Iowan. Do they qualify for a passport or do they have to be fashion models like Melania? They prefer Holsteins over Jerseys. Does that add points on an immigration application?

#63 Say What? on 08.04.16 at 10:05 pm

#50 liqudincalgary on 08.04.16 at 9:22 pm

So, you’re buying with both hands? Good for you.

—————————————————-

No, I’m staying put and, as such, I’m not following past blog advice to sell my house and invest it in the stock market.

#64 WalMark of Sadkatoon on 08.04.16 at 10:15 pm

#36 Aggregator on 08.04.16 at 8:43 pm

Holy debt anchor batman!

#65 WalMark of Sadkatoon on 08.04.16 at 10:24 pm

I wonder what will cause a fall in YVR and YYZ real estate prices. Typically it’s something nobody sees coming… The same way boxers get KO’d

#66 BOOM! on 08.04.16 at 10:31 pm

#61 WUL

Short ride to the bridge at Lansing, IA down Hwy 35. No tolls. IA, MN, and WI get along pretty well except for them purple football players vs green and gold. Otherwise, we all share cold beer, brandy etc. No passports necessary, pass outs are purely optional.

Holsteins, Herseys, brown Swiss hey we got ’em all here.
They don’t all smell the same actually, but close enough…

Actually there are NO extra credits for cow preferences.

It IS nice here. Sharp hills (driftless region) no glacial “rounding” and I am still amazed that the Norwegian immigrants settled here because it reminded them of Norway! There is better farm land around, but they made it work, and it is productive.

You just have to be extra careful driving when it is slick, there is a long way to the bottom off many of our local roads.

I grew up near the Illinois line of flat-lander country, rolling hills there.

#67 Mommy First on 08.04.16 at 10:33 pm

#55 Freedom First on 08.04.16 at 9:45 pm

I am the nicest person you will ever meet. I am always kind and considerate no matter how people treat me. I have great relationships with every single one of my ex girlfriends. They adore me. I am happy all the time.

===

If you say so.

You are also a mamma’s boy, I guess. Stuck in first person singular for the end of times.

#68 meslippery on 08.04.16 at 10:33 pm

#45 BOOM!

HEY Boom smart canucks live close to the border.
Best of both worlds.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/17198264/1500-STUART-LASALLE-Ontario-N9J1Y6

Mins. from the US border

#69 Smoking Man on 08.04.16 at 10:36 pm

So Wynee decides to hide the carbon tax in the delivery line on your energy bill and says I’m not hiding it.. Snow flakes ain’t stupid…

Babe, sweet cheeks. Next election. Your going down.

Your going down in a blaze of glory…

https://youtu.be/MfmYCM4CS8o

#70 Freedom First on 08.04.16 at 10:53 pm

#54 Metaxa on 08.04.16 at 9:36 pm

In a couple of months hockey will be back.

Nothing else matters, right?
I hear Toronto is going to win the Cup this year…is that true?

FF007

Yes grasshopper, that is true. I have heard it from one who has gone on before me. As a Zen master, I am always right.

#71 Smoking Man on 08.04.16 at 11:07 pm

My addictions

Booze, rentals, cigarettes and the odd weed for health reasons…

Nothing else matters..

https://youtu.be/MfmYCM4CS8o

#72 Smoking Man on 08.04.16 at 11:11 pm

SJW

November rain…… Trump will be King…

Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/8SbUC-UaAxE

#73 masterofthetelecaster on 08.04.16 at 11:12 pm

Thank you Garth for inspiring me to sell at the top in Edmonton. Thanks for the tip on the REIT that’s up 20% an paying 4.9% dividend. Thanks for the info that has me selling my gold stocks as they double and tucking the proceeds into ETF’s. But most of all thanks for opening my eyes so that as a father I can now do something I am proud of and that is to open self directed investment tfsa accounts for my 20 something daughters. Hopefully we will come to fully understand balanced diversified together. Also buy low and sell high. That would be good to no?
Best regards
Tim

#74 White Crock BC on 08.04.16 at 11:26 pm

BOOM! on 08.04.16 at 9:13 pm

You guys are possessed of lunacy there in Canuckistan.

This year it is assured no matter who wins, we lose!
=================

I’m going to go ahead and respectfully disagree.

Regardless of who wins in Nov., I can almost assure you that life for you won’t change.

The US can survive anything.

I’ve finally come to that realization. Good on you.

#75 Julie K. on 08.04.16 at 11:28 pm

On GreaterFool, fascinating financial terms and acronyms are thrown around with elegant ease — some of which may not be familiar to all (e.g. me).

One such term is Black Swan.

Black Swan: An event or occurrence that deviates beyond what is normally expected of a situation and that would be extremely difficult to predict. This term was popularized by Nassim Nicholas Taleb’s book “The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable.” Mr Taleb is a finance professor and former Wall Street trader.

~ Credit to Investopedia.com

#76 The Wet Coast on 08.04.16 at 11:29 pm

With many people the only question is who will get their and when. Unfortunatley, there are lots of these people and they are allowed to vote. The dumber ones become politicians.

#77 White Crock BC on 08.04.16 at 11:39 pm

Smoking Man on 08.04.16 at 10:36 pm

So Wynee decides to hide the carbon tax in the delivery line on your energy bill and says I’m not hiding it.. Snow flakes ain’t stupid…

Babe, sweet cheeks. Next election. Your going down.

Your going down in a blaze of glory…

===============================

Not a chance.

How many times did you “ding dongs” elect McGuinty and her?

You think next time will be any different?

Ontario voters are among the stupidest on the planet.

#78 Mark on 08.04.16 at 11:40 pm

“What cheap stocks? They are all time high, inflated by helicopter money offered way more wealthy people than yourself.”

Not the Canadian (ie: TSX) market indices. Not even back to 2008 levels. If there’s helicopter money out there, it certainly hasn’t hit the Canadian stocks, that’s for sure. If anything, they’re depressed on account of the fact that so much enthusiasm remains vested with the Canadian housing market as an investment asset class.

You pretend that the choice is to invest $400K on a house or on the stock exchange, conveniently forgetting that virtually no house in Canada is sold for cash.

Stocks can be bought on credit too. But they’re less likely to be bought on credit which is exactly what keeps them historically cheap.

Buying house is basically the only leveraged investment option to most people – financial institutions would call the ambulance if you showed up their to borrow money for a $400K stock investment without any asset equity.

They would not lend you money to play on the stock exchange against your existing investment portfolio, either.

I disagree with your latter claim. The banks and brokers most certainly do lend money against existing investment portfolios. And at this point, with falling house prices for the past few years with no end in sight, leverage in housing as an asset class is basically deadly to one’s wealth.

#79 Context on 08.04.16 at 11:43 pm

In the web Toronto Star sections top stories 9:00 PM there is an essay entitled “Bleeker St. residents say Ghost Hotels ruining neighborhood”. Do not tell anyone but there are hundreds similar in nature. Imagine my utter shock that these rentals are taking place in the dark using internet systems for bookings and ways to make payment such as in cash maybe.

#80 Howie on 08.04.16 at 11:46 pm

Hilarious article in today’s Toronto Stun

http://m.torontosun.com/2016/08/04/quebec-policy-inflates-bcs-housing-market

#81 Brazil ex-pat on 08.04.16 at 11:48 pm

#48 shaan on 08.04.16 at 9:19 pm
And take your job with you when you go. — Garth

Does Vancouver have any jobs ? I had no idea, I though that there was very little industry there.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Govt and RE…….a bit of subsidized (by the taxpayer) moveee industry. That’s about it……welcome to Bring Cash.

#82 Chicklit on 08.04.16 at 11:48 pm

Garth , you keep glossing over the fact that locals ‘can’t afford’ houses because they get outbid by foreign buyers who have a stronger currency that makes the C$ look like toilet paper, that a high percentage foreigners have been proven to be corrupt, and even the honest ones have had no income taxes gouged from their pay at 70% direct and indirect plus CPP & EI rubbing salt into the womb. It is by no means a level playing field. That’s why people want foreigners out, it isn’t ‘envy’, they just want the same shot the government seems intent on keeping them from having while favoring foreign investors over citizens.

Tax the foreigners the same as Canadian citizens on all money brought to Canada as if it was earned in Canada, take 70% off the top and force them to pay the penalties for non payment of back taxes the way Canadians are when they try to save, and you might start leveling the playing field and earning some sympathy from the rest of us.

#83 TurnerNation on 08.05.16 at 12:10 am

For the lads on the Sell side:
GMP Capital is buying FirstEnergy. Et tu Brett?
Feels like 2008. (Technically speaking. )

#84 Fiendish Thingy on 08.05.16 at 12:14 am

Another, slightly less pathetic blog, picks up on FOMO:

http://www.businessinsider.com/vancouver-burst-its-own-housing-bubble-2016-8

#85 The 4 Stages of Grief... on 08.05.16 at 12:26 am

It’s been great reading the Comments section for your Misery blogs Garth.

From what I can surmise so far, is that we are in Denial about RE (especially YVR and Calgary, 416 to start soon enough).

Stage 1 of the 4 Stages of Grief (yes, yes, some say 5 but that from pedantic, minutiae personalities that cannot leave well enough alone):

1. Denial.
2. Anger.
3. Depression.
4. Acceptance and Hope.

If the comments Denial writers are any indication, I cannot wait for #2 to take root…judging from the many inspired Denial writers that post in your Comments section regularly, this will be entertainment plus as to whom is blamed (punishment of the innocent).

Keep fomenting/informing/educating Garth.

#86 macroman on 08.05.16 at 12:43 am

Boom and WUL…all this cow talk, what about the preference of all them bucks? 30.06 or .308?

And politely Boom, Canuckistan up here is a slur. We lost 150 good men and women in a false flag war backing up the warmonger Yanks in Afghanistan.

I like your stuff, please respect our nic names.

#87 Metaxa on 08.05.16 at 12:51 am

Guess what?
Story time.

I’m going to say very early 70’s.
In the basement with a friend, very accomplished family.
Dad is chair of the poli-sci faculty at uni.
sis #1 has been featured in Playboy. (deservedly so I might add)
sis #2 had many Hollywood roles, most notably one of the brothel ladies in McCabe and Mrs. Miller.
My friend writes intro/extro music for CBC radio shows, records it in the basement studio.

This is before cordless phones and as my friend and I are doing whatever we do his mom (accomplished artist, acrylics and watercolours) arrives and tells us to pick up the extension phone. Quietly she says.

So we do and listen for a bit as his dad, the poli-sci prof, is talking with someone in LA. Its about if he would be selling out if he recorded some of his poetry musically, maybe even wrote some pure songs.
Then he starts singing…Suzanne takes you down to her place by the river…I knew it from reading his work.

Anyway you get the story because Marianne has passed away.
Marianne Ihlen was Leonard Cohen’s inspiration for So Long Marianne and Bird on a Wire.

So…along with getting old it seems I might be getting alone insofar as my youthful inspirations go.

Damn, eh?

Postscript, bonus content:
I was on a beach in Greece years later when the rumour flew that Cohen was on an island just a quick ferry ride away…emptied my beach, lol, I missed that ride but ended up meeting some very neat folks anyway…another story.

Remind me to tell you about Texaco road maps, the Guess Who and a guy I knew who ended up being the touring drummer for Johnny Cash…that too is a great story.

You all go to bed way to early, btw.

#88 millenial82 on 08.05.16 at 1:42 am

#59 logic on 08.04.16 at 9:57 pm

Leaves stocks cheap for me to buy..

If you take the average price of a Canadian house (~$400k) , and merely invest that in stocks at P/E of 15, and a normal long-term real earnings growth rate of 3%, that’s an implied $44k/year of after tax income.

What cheap stocks? They are all time high, inflated by helicopter money offered way more wealthy people than yourself.

You pretend that the choice is to invest $400K on a house or on the stock exchange, conveniently forgetting that virtually no house in Canada is sold for cash.

Buying house is basically the only leveraged investment option to most people – financial institutions would call the ambulance if you showed up their to borrow money for a $400K stock investment without any asset equity.

They would not lend you money to play on the stock exchange against your existing investment portfolio, either.

Even if they handed over the $400K for you, your calculation is missing the ~$20K you would spend on rent.
——————————————————————

Well welcome to the dog and pony show. Looks like we have our main event, the ultimate sucker.

First of all if you’re a regular here and read the comment section consistently you can paint a picture of Mark and he’s no doubt a consistent, diligent and clockwork like investor. He probably has that kind of cash to invest in the market so he’s talking from a personal perspective. Unlike of course, the typical person getting soaked in debt repayments and interest which is exactly my point going forward.

You’re implying using leverage to borrow insane amounts of money to buy a house is the only way the typical person is ever going to get ahead. Do you not realize signing up for epic debt is the ultimate lifetime enslavement? These people in the game can be paralleled to a wicked stock portfolio for the bank. Up to their eyeballs in mortgage debt, plus some credit card, car loans, LOC, buy now pay later you name it and at various rates. The faster they can hook you and keep you there, the better for them.

Finally, have you not heard of the other wonder of the world, compound interest? If you diligently save and invest, it’s not a stretch to achieve wealth and prosperity as this blog has explained and demonstrated. Of course, that’s not what everyone’s doing and as long as that’s the case there will always be the few wealthy and then the rest. As the saying goes, if you want to succeed in life look at what everyone else is doing and then do the opposite.

#89 DON on 08.05.16 at 1:42 am

On the subject of Trump.

Hate him or Love him. He just planted a seed – called the system corrupt and the election rigged. This notion may just resonate with a wary public – it may not take much to tip them over the edge. He is also fighting for the libertarian and green vote. The thing is – even his party is on the attack against him. I take it is only support comes from the Public. Interesting…

If I were a US citizen I would be asking for a do over, new round of candidates and no, not the groomed ones. The slow painful decline of an empire. One day we will bet against America, as history has shown all nations lose their way sooner or later.

But really Trump or Hillary – [email protected]

#90 TRT on 08.05.16 at 1:51 am

Most of my posts are deleted but…

if you can buy right now in the 416 or North of Toronto ;)…..do so..

30% rise is my prediction. Watch it soar. I’m not going to list the reason for it. Just watch my prediction.

#91 DON on 08.05.16 at 1:56 am

#104 Aggregator on 08.03.16 at 10:38 pm

#92 DON

There’s something really fishy about this Ian Young dude, who says he works for a “Chinese boss”. He’s totally fixated on wealthy fugitives and he doesn’t discuss anything else related to domestic housing activity.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but it almost seems like he’s part of the PRC’s Operation Fox Hunt.
————-
I agree about the fishy part. A messenger for the PRC and warning message to all embezzlers. There has been a lot of coverage on corrupt officials committing suicide to spare their families. Lots more have been jailed. The government has to crack down or at least be seen cracking down to ensure stability in China, whatever that stability may be.

#92 Goldie on 08.05.16 at 1:57 am

Here in the Van area i am also starting to see brexit-style scare stories on the evening news about how the new tax is going to destroy the local economy. Not surprisingly, most of the people being interviewed and trying to scare the public are involved in the real estate industry. To give the news credit, at least they disclose it. We also have the NDP “housing critic” criticizing the new tax, whereas right up until the tax was implemented, he was criticizing the government for doing nothing.

#93 jane 24 on 08.05.16 at 3:17 am

Right Mark Carney, who you sold to us, dropped the Bank of England base rate from .50% to .25% yesterday. At the following media scrum he said that the world is going into a low interest period due to continuing low global growth and that there would be lost of other shoes dropping from lots of other central banks and to stay tuned.

So although I always thought that interest rates would increase shortly it looks like the world has wrong-footed me and it is time to increase rather than decrease my Uk RE holdings. Interesting times indeed.

#94 LowRent of Arabia on 08.05.16 at 5:50 am

Gen X here…born late sixties.

No real estate. Sold one in divorce. Sold ski condo for profit years ago.

Work abroad. No taxes. Housing included in contract.

Have to work till I croak. Happy. Content.

Not a Gen Y’er. No Facebook. Don’t play Pokemon Go and use my smart phone for mostly phoning people.

Got a handful of real friends not thousands of voyeurs looking at my photos.

Time for a new survey of your peeps Garth.

#95 SI2K on 08.05.16 at 6:20 am

Point of confusion: Most of the boomers in my blue collar U.S. community were married and had houses and children by 25. Were boomers different in Canada? The ones I know have mostly worked the same job all their lives and never traveled much outside of maybe Disney World or grandma’s house in Virginia. Most of those families are still in their modest 1960s homes raising their own grandchildren. Why is it so irrational for young people to desire similarly stable lifestyles? Imo, the vast majority of people aren’t cut out for the kind of mobility that seems to be expected by current economic policy.

#96 Zen Headspace on 08.05.16 at 6:49 am

“The most over-educated, sheltered, uber-parented generation ever to walk this earth has inherited the worst characteristics of their parents. House lust.”
——————————————————————–
Even as rain penetrates an ill-thatched house,
so does lust penetrate an undeveloped mind.
Even as rain does not penetrate a well-thatched house,
so does lust not penetrate a well-developed mind.

~Dhammapada

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2045766.House_Lust

#97 Jimmy on 08.05.16 at 7:29 am

Ok so sales are dropping from record levels but prices have yet to show signs of weakness. If Calgary is an example of what we can expect then it’s understandable that young people are skipping that backpacking trip to focus on getting themselves a home since prices are like crazy glue.

#98 westcdn on 08.05.16 at 7:42 am

Well it looks like the Bank of England (Mark Carney – thank God he is over there) have caved. I have gained confidence the elites are just average people who are drawing karma. Mind, there are exceptions. I always remember a union worker saying that management wants workers with strong backs and weak minds.

There was a time I believed there was always good in people. Now I don’t know where to place my trust. I wonder sometimes when two economists speak to each other they both get stupider. The world is approaching nuclear war because of stupidity. The elites want to be first to hit the buffet line and will cheat to make sure it happens. I am sure they have their bomb shelters ready and are ready to bug out in a moment.

If I survive I will not have any problem (other than being shot by their guards) removing them. Both of my parents were raised in Saskatchewan on farms near Prince Albert during the dirty thirties. You don’t think they taught me the importance of honesty and hard work – think again. They were strong people with a misplaced faith in the system – criticism/feedback is important to the management cycle.

My REITs and Preferreds are doing well for the moment but that can change. I have allowed the eligible of my preferred shares to reset at fixed 8% for the next 5 years – not to say I won’t settle for a variable quarterly rate. I just feel that that inflation is low and oil prices will stay low for another 2 years.

I guess I can brag. I am up 14% this year to date (counting dividends) and will not give up on Canadians despite having some horrific results with individual share positions. How will go to Alberta? – kiss the people goodbyes that are hanging by their fingernails.
There is more pain to come but our recent history is second to the Russians. I think we should accept Russian fears – Putin is not evil – he just wants his Russians to survive. Starting a 3rd World War is not something I would want if I was American but I will never leave Americans on the field. I hate war but I will do what has to be done. Don’t try to pin a medal on me for that one. I am not afraid to fight or die – hopefully I can kill the right bastard before he kills me.

This may partially explain why many millenniums have a hard time finding good jobs. Being a boomer has not made me proud considering the burden my cohort is leaving to the future.
http://www.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/194132/corporate-boards-failing-growth.aspx
Don’t you love the greed and stupidly of the boomer elites in general?

#99 CJBob on 08.05.16 at 7:53 am

#79 Context on 08.04.16 at 11:43 pm
Imagine my utter shock that these rentals are taking place in the dark using internet systems for bookings and ways to make payment such as in cash maybe.
________________
Exactly the same as airbnb and vrbo which has been covered to death in the media. Nothing dark about this.

Selling homes at a lower price than through the MLS, on the other hand, is a dream you had. Please ask the nurse for more meds, and I’m glad they added wifi to your wing of the hospital so you could join us the past few weeks.

#100 Freedom First on 08.05.16 at 7:59 am

#67 Mommy First on 08.04.16 at 10:33 pm

#55 Freedom First on 08.04.16 at 9:45 pm

I am the nicest person you will ever meet. I am always kind and considerate no matter how people treat me. I have great relationships with every single one of my ex girlfriends. They adore me. I am happy all the time.

===

If you say so.

You are also a mamma’s boy, I guess. Stuck in first person singular for the end of times.

FF007

If your mind was fortified and strong like mine, you would see things differently. Fortify your mind and we will talk…and you will learn.

#101 MF on 08.05.16 at 8:16 am

#86 macroman on 08.05.16 at 12:43 am

Those men and women died for a cause they most likely believed in. Have you been around any military people in your life? By you calling that war a “false flag” you are essentially saying they died for nothing. Completely disrespectful, and all so you can forward your selfish conspiracy theory paranoia to us all.

The Iraq war on the other hand…I completely disagreed with and I am glad we stayed out of it.

#88 millenial82 on 08.05.16 at 1:42 am

A good post. Compound interest takes a while though and the numbers are not as big. 100,000 in an investment account doesn’t look as good as a house that costs 1,200,000.00..even though the leveraged owner only “owns” 100,000.00 of it.

#93 jane 24 on 08.05.16 at 3:17 am

That’s the only weapon they have. The “low growth” environment is something they created with their asset bubbles everywhere. They are just trying to justify their policies that are a complete failure. The Brits should stay strong.

MF

#102 logic on 08.05.16 at 8:17 am

Do you not realize signing up for epic debt is the ultimate lifetime enslavement? These people in the game can be paralleled to a wicked stock portfolio for the bank. Up to their eyeballs in mortgage debt, plus some credit card, car loans, LOC, buy now pay later you name it and at various rates.

It would be crazy to buy RE at the current prices, but I did 15 years ago. Various accelerated payment options allowed me to skip “lifetime enslavement”.

My mortgage had nothing to do with my credit card, which is always paid off fully in time, taking advantage only of the benefits.

I also have a self-directed investment portfolio, which grew nicely. With the paid-off house I can now add more to it as if I was renting.

#103 Noel on 08.05.16 at 8:41 am

Buying a home is by far the best long-term investment strategy there is. Its been proven time and time again.

http://www.keepingcurrentmatters.com/2015/10/26/2016-homeowners-net-worth-will-be-45x-greater-than-a-renter/

Absolutely incorrect. You are a housing shill. — Garth

#104 Andrew t on 08.05.16 at 8:52 am

#86 macroman on 08.05.16 at 12:43 am
Boom and WUL…all this cow talk, what about the preference of all them bucks? 30.06 or .308?

And politely Boom, Canuckistan up here is a slur. We lost 150 good men and women in a false flag war backing up the warmonger Yanks in Afghanistan.

I like your stuff, please respect our nic names.
—-
I respect where you’re coming fron but for the sake of balance, I find Canuckistan tongue-in-cheek and harmless. And I’m proud we took the fight to Afghanistan, where it needed to go, while skipping the Iraq mess. And I’m a liberal to boot. I agree these types of portmanteau slights like feminazi and Hitlery and fiberal have been played out and become tiresome in general, but let’s not lose the ability to laugh at ourselves and our image a little bit.

#105 Noel on 08.05.16 at 8:59 am

DELETED

#106 Sheane Wallace on 08.05.16 at 9:08 am

Consequences from the credit bubble deflation (the biggest credit bubble in housing in the history of the world):

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/newsalert-canada-loses-31-200-123723388.html

1. Increase in unemployment
2. Increase in trade deficit
3. depreciating currency

This is just the beginning.

#107 Not good At all!! on 08.05.16 at 9:08 am

Another blow to the Canadian Economy.
“Canada sheds 31,000 jobs in July”

#108 This Sucks! on 08.05.16 at 9:09 am

“Canada sheds 31,000 jobs in July”

This confirms what I have been saying about Canada and our doomed housing market. — Garth

#109 Moron Face on 08.05.16 at 9:18 am

Another “blow the doors off” US jobs report! The US is a goddamned powerhouse!

Trump is going down in flaaaaaaaaames! Dems to win majority in the House & Senate.

The US is a work of art.

#110 Moron Face on 08.05.16 at 9:19 am

Nice 100 bp drop in the $CAD!

#111 Moron Face on 08.05.16 at 9:20 am

Can you say “risk on”?

#112 Bat Flipper on 08.05.16 at 9:22 am

Well, they did it. The vacant house tax and the Foreign Cash Tax. Some people cried, most people cheered. So, now that the foreigners aren’t going to drive up prices, we can lower the amount of foreign demand in the marketplace, and those vacant homes might now enter into the rental pool to avoid the tax which is good. A house isn’t supposed to be an investment strategy, but it should be a place to live. If you want to buy housing to invest, then see REITs. Buying rentals is a nightmare, a headache, and can give some serious financial implications if the housing market retreats.

Will these new taxes kill the market and foreign buyers? No, but it will slow the market a little faster. With a percentage leaving the buying pool, and Canadians thinking there is less FOMO because the HAM is gone, then we should still see increases in prices, just not as much.

Those TFWs that took your jobs won’t be taking your houses anytime soon, so we can wait on that purchase.

Next step, Canadian lenders think they are ‘too big to fail’, and they are right about that. Especially, since they are backed by the taxpayers. Yes, you are paying most of your money to the bank, that is insured and protected by insurance that you bought, and if that insurance fails, then you will pay to bail out the bank. Banks win. You lose. That’s not right.

#113 Daren Holly on 08.05.16 at 9:25 am

This is just a short term impact of job losses in Canada. By the end of 2016, we will see 85,000 jobs created in Canada.

Oil will be 57 to 62 U.S. dollars per barrel by end of 2016.

#114 paulo on 08.05.16 at 9:33 am

misery #5

in addition to 31K jobs punted

ponder all time record trade deficit and 4.7% decline in exports this seriously sucks
Coming sooner rather than later: emergency rate cut and a whole bunch of QE

#115 Grey Dog on 08.05.16 at 9:35 am

Metaxa, you rub elbows with the most interesting people!
Boom! WUL, I was raised on a dairy farm in Caledon, then called Chinguacousy township. No one could spell that, so they changed the name to Caledon. All around me were dairy farms with Holstein cows. Not too many of them around now, just a mega family farm that has been in the family approaching 2 centuries around Mayfield.
A lot of cash cropping in Caledon now. That is for the real farmers. Then there is Garth,s horse crowd, Vanity farms. My problem is when bike riding the Caledon rail trail, those horses won’t let you pass!
Sorry Garth, misery week is depressing me, so I had to go off topic.
Vote for Holstein cows, besides being black and white, the rare one comes in red.

#116 ben on 08.05.16 at 9:43 am

> Disclosure: I bought a lakefront property through his little brokerage a decade ago. He sold it for me a few years later. In a bidding war, no less.

But apparently it’s the kids who are the problem.

Who do you think ultimately pays for real estate profits, Garth?

You’re absolutely correct. Should have given it to you. You’re special. — Garth

#117 CJBob on 08.05.16 at 9:43 am

#107 This Sucks! on 08.05.16 at 9:09 am
“Canada sheds 31,000 jobs in July”

This confirms what I have been saying about Canada and our doomed housing market. — Garth
__________________
Or this could just be confirmation bias, and the fact that job growth is slowing will increase the chances of a rate cut and help housing stay positive.

I’m not sayin’ that’s the case, just pointing out the outlook isn’t as clear as you’re making it, at least not in YYZ.

#118 Smoking Man on 08.05.16 at 9:43 am

#107 This Sucks! on 08.05.16 at 9:09 am
“Canada sheds 31,000 jobs in July”

This confirms what I have been saying about Canada and our doomed housing market. — Garth
………………..

Love the smell of a rate cut in the morning

#119 TnT on 08.05.16 at 9:44 am

#89 DON on 08.05.16 at 1:42 am

One day we will bet against America, as history has shown all nations lose their way sooner or later.

Read this – it will reverse your opinion and see America from a different perspective; one that will never doubt its future success.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-the-accidental-superpower-by-peter-zeihan-1417653112

#120 This Sucks! on 08.05.16 at 9:58 am

“Canada sheds 31,200 jobs in July”

This is actually worst than it sounds- lost 71,400 full time and created 40,200 PT.

“Statistics Canada said the number of full-time workers fell by 71,400 — the biggest one-month decline since October 2011.

The loss in full-time jobs was partially offset by an increase of 40,200 part-time jobs, the federal agency said.”

Get ready for a crashing landing position by putting your head between your knees so you can kiss your ass good bye.

#121 Smoking Man on 08.05.16 at 9:58 am

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#122 cramar on 08.05.16 at 10:09 am

Just thinkin’ …

When we bought our first detached starter house in the 1970’s it cost me roughly 4x my annual wages. I bought in Kitchener because the GTA was unaffordable.

Today one can buy a starter home for 2x to 5x yearly wages here in Essex County. Five times your income if you flip burgers, 2x if you work in the trades.

So what’s the fuss?

People want to buy in the most expensive RE areas of the country, and complain because they cannot afford it. The key today, as 40 years ago, if you really want a detached house is . . .

MOVE TO WHERE RE IS AFFORDABLE!

#123 La Belle Vie on 08.05.16 at 10:13 am

#87 Metaxa on 08.05.16 at 12:51 am

Guess what?
Story time.

Ok that was a fun story….. awesomeness.

#124 Bottoms_Up on 08.05.16 at 10:13 am

#107 This Sucks! on 08.05.16 at 9:09 am
————————————————
The follow-up stat to the job loss numbers is that of the 71,000 jobs gained in Canada this year, they are all part time.

How do you buy a house on part-time wages?

#125 Keith in Calgary on 08.05.16 at 10:15 am

#103 Noel

If what you say is true, how do you explain my bank account ?

I am a renter, have been all my life, and since 2003 when I sat down and created my plan, have amassed a 7 figure cash position that keeps growing.

Please explain……….and remember, we are on the end tail of a consumer credit boom that started in the late 70’s combined with loose government central bank policy. None of which positively affected my ability to generate my bank account.

ROTFLMAO

#126 Bottoms_Up on 08.05.16 at 10:16 am

#103 Noel on 08.05.16 at 8:41 am
——————————————-
Housing is perhaps ONLY an actual ‘investment’ or ‘asset’ when measured over the long term. That is when it starts paying you back in old age (when you no longer have to pay off the mortgage).

And even if it is a long term investment, it is definitely NOT the BEST long term investment, as over time housing has been shown to track the rate of inflation (meaning, you could do just as well, if not better, putting your money in GICs).

#127 BOOM! on 08.05.16 at 10:29 am

#104 Andrew t

No offense intended. I’ll be more careful going forward.

I didn’t realize it was a slur. You can feel free to use ‘America’ when we have done something stupid, which WE do with a fair amount of regularity here.

I find the 30.06 fine for buck hunting, or with my luck the front end of a Mustang… it is presently in the body shop.
2nd one in three years… tells me the hunters didn’t ‘see’ the one I didn’t ‘see’ either…oops!!

That’s why we buy insurance, Bambi is NEVER covered!

#128 rosie on 08.05.16 at 10:29 am

To all the little Trumpkins out there, from the former Director of the C.I.A. no less. But what does he know, just another loser.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/opinion/campaign-stops/i-ran-the-cia-now-im-endorsing-hillary-clinton.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

#129 Stormy Ways on 08.05.16 at 10:30 am

Three more years til we get rid of the bare chested selfie king…. canuckistan is in for a world of hurt the next few years.
The US is rocking.

#130 BOOM! on 08.05.16 at 10:38 am

#86 macroman

failed to include you in my last (see #126).

Yeah, “Bush’s war”… thank you for your assistance and sacrifice. Foreign entanglements, not all we expect from them is it?

#131 fancy_pants on 08.05.16 at 10:54 am

so ‘the budget will balance itself’ but what is happening here?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-loses-31-200-jobs-in-july-1.3016176
perhaps nothing that collective coercion can’t hammer out. more tax + spend.

.. and speaking of misery, socialism is a philosophy of failure, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery

#132 Noel on 08.05.16 at 10:57 am

#124 Keith in Calgary

You’re one of the smart ones – you have the intelligence and discipline to invest your money properly over the long term.

The vast majority of people don’t have this ability, and the only way they can have a decent retirement fund is to leverage themselves with a mortgage and essentially enter a forced savings plan.

#125 Bottoms_Up

Housing may not have the best return of any investment, but it is certainly the simplest. How many people rent and put the savings into a retirement fund as opposed to spending it on other things? Not a large % I would guess…

#133 TurnerNation on 08.05.16 at 11:09 am

#79 Context – not first time that area has been in flux.
1999:

https://www.nfb.ca/film/east_side_showdown/

#134 Smoking Man on 08.05.16 at 11:20 am

OTTAWA — The Canadian labour market lost 31,200 net jobs last month as the country suffered its biggest one-month drop in full-time work in nearly five years, Statistics Canada said Friday.

No pipe lines
Provencal Carbon Tax
Federal Carbon Tax
CPP going up for individuals and corporations

What investor in his right mind would invest in Communist Canada.

This is just the start.

#135 Moron Face on 08.05.16 at 11:24 am

The best days of the US (and the global economy) are in the future, not the past.

The S&P 500 will continue to grind ever higher, until finally sentiment shifts, the retail investor capitulates and moves $ from real estate in to equity investments.

#136 Crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.05.16 at 11:31 am

@#120 Smoking Man

Slow day smokey or did you have a DT attack with flashes of “artistic” savant?

#137 WalMark of Sadkatoon on 08.05.16 at 11:38 am

Another “blow the doors off” US jobs report! The US is a goddamned powerhouse!

Damn right

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-jobs-report-july-2016-2016-8

The US is BOOMING

…canada not so much…

#138 ben on 08.05.16 at 11:44 am

No Garth that’s not what I said. Your generation got a heap load of profit for zero effort through land price appreciation which is paid for by the next generation.

That’s what’s happened and no you can’t obfuscate this by taking it to absurd limits or playing it for laughs.

Good job you have all these problematic kids pledging to work for far longer for the same pile of bricks.

At the core of this is the lack of shame in your comment, the gleeful addition of “bidding war”. Oh clever you Garth, wish I’d thought of being born earlier and applying a scorched earth political strategy to buy boomer votes which has culminated in blogs that have misery # in them.

Keep up the great work.

Your mindless, ageist generalizations render you unworthy of a thoughtful response. — Garth

#139 Mark on 08.05.16 at 11:45 am

“The S&P 500 will continue to grind ever higher, until finally sentiment shifts, the retail investor capitulates and moves $ from real estate in to equity investments.”

With US RE prices being where they are (ie: closer to long-term reality than we see in Canada), there’s far less “money” or speculative enthusiasm to move from housing to stocks. The P/E of the US stock market (ie: 20-27, depending on who you believe) is not meaningfully different than the US housing market, once you adjust for long-term growth rates.

Contrast this with Canada where we see housing P/E in excess of 35, and the stock market is at a paltry P/E of 15. So plenty of room for a cyclical rotation or inversion.

Might the US get its inversion? Possibly. I wouldn’t rule that out. But if you believe in the theory that RE will be sold, and equities will be bought in the quest to secure long-term retirement security, then Canada would appear to be a far better buy.

#140 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 11:46 am

#88Millenial82

”As the saying goes, if you want to succeed in life look at what everyone else is doing and then do the opposite.”

——————————————————————
You got that right. If you want low returns you follow the herd. If you want high returns you follow the money.

#141 ben on 08.05.16 at 11:46 am

Really quite amazing Garth how you turned your admission of work free profit into an imagined request from me to get free money.

It’s weak, you need to go to the mental gym.

It irritated you. So, I won. — Garth

#142 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 11:49 am

#131 Noel

”How many people rent and put the savings into a retirement fund as opposed to spending it on other things? Not a large % I would guess…”
————————————————————–
I would say ‘very few’.

#143 Mark on 08.05.16 at 11:49 am

“Consequences from the credit bubble deflation (the biggest credit bubble in housing in the history of the world):

2. Increase in trade deficit
3. depreciating currency

I think you’re wrong about 2) and 3). A deflating credit bubble means that indebted consumers (ie: most Canadians) spend less. A lot less. And those who sell to them, of course, earn less. So there’s a lot less money floating around in the economy (ie: velocity crashes), and there’s no inflation to be seen.

This is supportive and indicative of a higher currency, and lower trade deficits, not the opposite.

With such robust job growth in the non-productive sectors in the US economy, it appears that the US is probably heading down a significantly more inflationary path than the obviously deflationary path we’re going to see in Canada. Therefore, interest rate policy is likely to disconnect significantly for the next number of years as the CAD$ rises to reflect the deflationary reality.

#144 Arse on 08.05.16 at 11:50 am

I think the bubble will continue for another decade.

#145 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 11:52 am

#133 Smoking Man

”What investor in his right mind would invest in Communist Canada.”
——————————————————————
Depends what you’re investing in? Many good companies to invest in Canada especially in the resource sector. Just need to buy at the right time and hang on.

#146 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 11:56 am

”And even if it is a long term investment, it is definitely NOT the BEST long term investment, as over time housing has been shown to track the rate of inflation (meaning, you could do just as well, if not better, putting your money in GICs).”
—————————————————————–
Unless you were one of the ones who rolled the dice and bet on the To and Van real estate markets and cashed in your winnings.

#147 funhretk on 08.05.16 at 11:59 am

“Good-bye backpacking through Europe to find yourself or chasing a career four provinces away.-Garth”

Good point mate…..the lack of labour mobility was one of the major flaws of the various commie economies in the past…..now Canuckistan has effected the same end result with a different method….lack of mobility, big job losses, etc mean sheeple will stay at home in their castles eating kraft dinner and drinking swill….consumer spending drops, gdp drops, loonie drops…..the only thing that isn’t dropping for this insane generation is a penny!

#148 ben on 08.05.16 at 12:06 pm

Garth it really is worrying that this level of discourse got you into office. Again to recap: the big problem with Western countries is the idea that the pinnacle of human achievement is “something for nothing”, as exemplified by your bragging about a bidding war.

It’s weak Garth, and you know it.

No brag, a statement of fact. Nor do you have any idea what capital or improvements went into a property that sold for more than it cost. You just want a fight plus a confirmation of your biases. Go find it elsewhere. — Garth

#149 Fred Canon on 08.05.16 at 12:06 pm

Petulant Trudeau/Wynne Liberals should be ashamed but are probably not going to admit to this abject failure of policy and action.

http://www.bnn.ca/canada-s-jobs-shocker-record-trade-deficit-stir-concerns-about-economy-1.538600

#150 ben on 08.05.16 at 12:08 pm

> The most over-educated, sheltered, uber-parented generation ever to walk this earth has inherited the worst characteristics of their parents. House lust. Financial illiteracy. Nesting. Good-bye backpacking through Europe to find yourself or chasing a career four provinces away. Hello mortgage and property tax. Lawn and minivan. Eavestrough repair. We are so screwed.

> Your mindless, ageist generalizations render you unworthy of a thoughtful response. — Garth

Fish in a barrel. Is this going into your comment bin Garth or can it enter the echo chamber?

#151 funhretk on 08.05.16 at 12:11 pm

#15 Mark on 08.04.16 at 7:46 pm
I gotta say, its fun when my similarly aged peers (I was born between 1965 and 1992)..”

Does this mean that you consider everyone within a 27 year age range to be peers?

Is a one year old a peer of a 28 year old?

#152 Bottoms_Up on 08.05.16 at 12:19 pm

#21 nonplused on 08.04.16 at 8:03 pm
————————————————-
I think Gen Y is really defined as the generation that grew up with computers. Gen X didn’t really have that privilege. So ~1980 makes sense for the cut.

#153 TRT on 08.05.16 at 12:25 pm

YVR and YYZ are the only regions of growth in Canada.
The immigration (foreign students, home building, foreign $ inflows, etc. ) industry is the driving force.

With aging demographics, Canada is doomed In the medium term.

Just like I said when this blog opened, Toronto and Vancouver will be the only places booming. How right I was.

Actually you were wrong. — Garth

#154 Wild Albertan Gonads on 08.05.16 at 12:35 pm

#147 ben on 08.05.16 at 12:06 pm

Garth it really is worrying that this level of discourse got you into office. Again to recap: the big problem with Western countries is the idea that the pinnacle of human achievement is “something for nothing”, as exemplified by your bragging about a bidding war.

It’s weak Garth, and you know it.

No brag, a statement of fact. Nor do you have any idea what capital or improvements went into a property that sold for more than it cost. You just want a fight plus a confirmation of your biases. Go find it elsewhere. — Garth

Weak sauce ben.

Hey this morning I sat on my ass and watched my portfolio grow a few thousand.. doing absolutely nothing!!.. beauty eh.

Oh but where did that initial capital come from.. oh I remember now.. I created wealth.. then I invested it to help create some more wealth.. took a chance with that and was rewarded.. imagine that eh ben.. it actually wasn’t something for nothing. ….you might want to try it instead of whining

#155 WalMark of Sadkatoon on 08.05.16 at 12:35 pm

You just want a fight plus a confirmation of your biases. Go find it elsewhere. — Garth

tyrannosaurus #rekt

#156 Ogopogo on 08.05.16 at 12:36 pm

Meanwhile, in “it’s different here” Alberta…

Alberta unemployment rises to 8.6% in July, highest rate since 1994

“The unemployment rate in Alberta has hit its highest level since September 1994, at 8.6 per cent in July, Statistics Canada says.

The July numbers were released on Friday in the federal agency’s monthly Labour Force Survey (LFS).

Over the past year, 104,000 full-time jobs were lost in Alberta.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-unemployment-statistics-canada-recessionfsda-1.3708709

No better time to load up on an overpriced cornflakes-pressed McMansion in Cowtown! Remember to borrow the 5% down payment for maximum leverage. What’s to fear? Housing prices can only go up, up, up! Just ask your friendly realtor, you know, the one with the garlic breath and the math skills of an Amazonian sloth on roofies.

#157 ben on 08.05.16 at 12:38 pm

I don’t want a fight Garth, I’d like for you to try and be a little less dismissive of the kids inheriting the total mess bequeathed to them. And a little less bragging (that is what it was) about unearned income. Unearned income via exploitation of land is the reason this blog exists, so try to stay on track about the root causes.

Is it:

a) a kid in a basement who can’t see the point in working as land prices are detached from wages

b) people who have profited from land price ramping by the banks

Nearly every single day is kicking the kids. I just don’t get it. It’s quite impossible for this to be their fault as often the age range targeted is under 20.

Why not man up? You made actual bad policy calls such as Home Buyers Plan (http://www.greaterfool.ca/2014/07/13/regrets/). That’s a big part of the problem right there. Easier for you under pressure at the time but now these kids in their “entitlement” must pay for it.

#158 Split Infinity on 08.05.16 at 12:39 pm

What concerns me is that rather than regulate accurate reporting of real estate data, our government is throwing darts at the problem by taxing foreign investment. This makes absolutely no sense.

The reason Canadian real estate is screwed is because it’s a black box. Without transparency you can manipulate a market with barely any effort.

Is open data even on the radar? What about a government sponsored API on real estate data that developers can use to do some real data science on what the hell is up with the market?

Until that happens I won’t touch real estate. It’s a glorified casino right now.

#159 bdy sktn on 08.05.16 at 12:48 pm

151 Bottoms_Up on 08.05.16 at 12:19 pm

#21 nonplused on 08.04.16 at 8:03 pm
————————————————-
I think Gen Y is really defined as the generation that grew up with computers. Gen X didn’t really have that privilege. So ~1980 makes sense for the cut.
…………………
Hey we had the awesomeness of electronic quarterback and pong. Does that count?

#160 BOOM! on 08.05.16 at 12:49 pm

#115…#137…#140…#147…#149…BEN

Exactly what was added to the discussion here?

Ben sounds like your basic young person bemoaning the world they find. Well, it has been that way since before I got here, too.

Deal with it, or deal around it. You’re gonna be in charge soon, hope you do better, eh.

#161 ben on 08.05.16 at 12:53 pm

I’m not actually young and I’m doing fine, thanks.

I know it’s very hard for some people to imagine not exploiting the system for their own gain or caring about other generations, so sorry if you don’t get it.

Guess that’s how we got into this complete mess. Ah well not long until that generation is flushed through through the system.

#162 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 12:58 pm

#123 Bottoms-Up

The follow-up stat to the job loss numbers is that of the 71,000 jobs gained in Canada this year, they are all part time.
—————————————————————-
Numbers are one thing but unless you attach a dollar value to those numbers it doesn’t tell the true tale. Same as the US job numbers. What is the value of those jobs numbers compared to the past. Are people gaining or falling behind in their salaries? They don’t seem to want to publish this stuff.

#163 common sense on 08.05.16 at 1:04 pm

Let’s see..

No election in Canada..True job numbers…down.

Election In USA…false excessive job numbers…up.

And Ms. Janet now has the PERFECT excuse not to raise rates..( even though we ALL know she wouldn’t dare raise them prior to the election.)

“Well we met ALL of our targets yet we still have to see what the numbers say if they get seasonally adjusted downward…naturally we will wait til December now.”

The bubbles just keep artificially growing… ALL IN housing and stock markets…with the Central banks all in, you just can’t lose..

Until you can.

#164 Nelley on 08.05.16 at 1:06 pm

#127Rosie-you are very knowledgeable-we all thought Donald Trump was the darling of the CIA and deep state.

#165 BOOM! on 08.05.16 at 1:18 pm

#159 BEN

…”not long until that generation is flushed through the system.”

Actually, Ben, it is not long before EVERY generation gets flushed through the system.

Not being the altruistic poster boy of my, or any other generation, doesn’t one try to do their ‘best’ for themselves, and their family? Exploiting others is not there be design, or intent. I

If I build a better mousetrap I get more customers looking for a mousetrap. If I buy a stock which has fallen on hard times, but has potential, it can be a win as well.
Same with a property, possibly needs major work, but I deem it ‘worth’ my investment.

Should I profit at the end of these journeys, so be it.

Prices, and values Ben are ultimately determined by the buyers and sellers in a free market.

Oh, by the way the market does not give out trophies to all participants, some will be disappointed.

Not quite sure what “complete mess” you have in mind. There are presently numerous to choose between.

Cheers!

#166 Noel on 08.05.16 at 1:19 pm

Trump supporters, do you know that you’re unwittingly Russian stooges?

At least the former director of the CIA thinks you are:

“President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia was a career intelligence officer, trained to identify vulnerabilities in an individual and to exploit them. That is exactly what he did early in the primaries. Mr. Putin played upon Mr. Trump’s vulnerabilities by complimenting him. He responded just as Mr. Putin had calculated.

Mr. Putin is a great leader, Mr. Trump says, ignoring that he has killed and jailed journalists and political opponents, has invaded two of his neighbors and is driving his economy to ruin. Mr. Trump has also taken policy positions consistent with Russian, not American, interests—endorsing Russian espionage against the United States, supporting Russia’s annexation of Crimea and giving a green light to a possible Russian invasion of the Baltic States.

In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/05/former_cia_chief_trump_poses_threat_to_national_security.html

#167 JP on 08.05.16 at 1:20 pm

Rate hikes coming, USA #1.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/05/nonfarm-payrolls-july-2016.html

#168 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 1:23 pm

#151 Bottoms_Up on 08.05.16 at 12:19 pm

#21 nonplused on 08.04.16 at 8:03 pm
————————————————-
I think Gen Y is really defined as the generation that grew up with computers. Gen X didn’t really have that privilege. So ~1980 makes sense for the cut.
————————————————————–

Not so. Both my sons, born 1971 and 1972 are gen Xer’s. Gen X is considered to be from 1966 to 1976. Both were introduced to computers in 1980, first with the Radio Shack Color Computer and the Model III 16K the same year. They were 8 and 9. The following year after getting bored with playing games, my eldest son decided he wanted to learn to program. He was 10. He went out and spent his paper route money on programming books for the Model III and studied those for awhile then decided to enrol in a night school class at our local college to learn Basic programming. At first he was declined because of his age but being the persistent lad that he was, he talked the instructor into letting him in. The instructor quickly realized that this young man was extremly knowlegable with this stuff and soon had him assisting him in the class. He received is certificate with flying colors. He later upgraded to other computers (IBM, Apple, etc) and used them all through high school. So, for he and his brother, computers have been a big part of their lives since 1980 and continue to be today in their businesses.

http://www.oldcomputers.net/trs80iii.html

#169 AB Boxster on 08.05.16 at 1:41 pm

So funny how history repeats.

T1 was elected because his flamboyant ‘progressive’ style was so different form the stodgy old style of the past. But the massive deficits T1 ran, in order to create his ‘just society’ resulted in huge economic problems in the 80’s and 90’s.

Hey millennials…
Remember 15% mortgage rates?
Remember jingle keys?
Bob Rae’s disastrous socialist government in Ontario?
No?
You must have slept through that part of history class.

The Liberals of the 90’s were ultimately forced by economic fundamentals and financial markets to get things under control through huge government spending cuts to health care, social programs, greatly increased taxes.

And here we are today.

T2 and his social justice government trying to massively spend our way to prosperity. Wynne, Notley and T2 with their ‘world saving’ climate change efforts.

Except for some big differences from the 80’s and 90’s.

1. Canadians are now massively in debt.
2. The whole world is in a no growth phase, except for the Americans.
3. Canada has no manufacturing industry to benefit from our pathetic dollar.
4. Dissent to social engineering over economic intelligence is not allowed.
Today it is likely that a Paul Martin would be cast out of a Liberal caucus for being far too ‘old stock’ and not ‘progressive’ enough.

The leaders in Canada are so blind by their ideology that they have no clue how to manage an economy.

They put roadblocks in any effort to develop energy resources (something of ours the world will actually buy), preferring to allow other nations to enrich themselves at Canada’s expense.

The new Canadian battle cry…
Go USA, Go Saudi Arabia!

They embark upon irrational socially ‘progressive’ taxes that do ‘nothing’ to actually curb greenhouse gas emissions, yet serve to hurt Canadian business and citizens. All the while, the major emitters of the world do nothing or build new coal plants.

And so Canada languishes.
Jobs continue to be lost.
Living standards continue to fall.

And, now , and likely for the next 20-30 years,the generation that voted for this ‘new’ government gets to see the results.

Yes, as T2 said ‘Canada is back’
Canada is back to the economic policies of the 70’s with a huge dose of climate change justice added on for good measure.

Can’t find a good job?
Can’t afford a house?
Can’t pay your taxes?
Can’t pay $8 for cauliflower?
Can’t afford to send your kid to university?
Can’t get timely health care.

Well, welcome to the 70’s and 80’s 90’s.

Hope you enjoy the ride.

#170 Nemesis on 08.05.16 at 1:48 pm

#FridayMiseryMischief,Or… #OnGranularDisquisitionsOf… #”TheAmericanDream”…

[WaPo] – How to find a better life in Flint, Mich.: Looking for the American Dream [Illustrated Feature]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2016/08/05/how-to-find-a-better-life-in-flint-michigan-dream/

[NoteToGT: Not bad for a Canadian, eh?…]

#171 Fred Longworth on 08.05.16 at 1:50 pm

To Ben #159

I know what you mean. Myself and my spouse are in our late 30’s and have lost our full-time jobs after 18 years. We never had much benefits so that has not changed much.

This was back 2 years ago and we could only get contract work and part-time jobs. We are making the same income but is not as stable as before. It is around $90,000 to $94,000 a year gross between both of us.

We were taught to have a good work ethic and we saved quite diligently for those years.

We have a paid off $400,000 house, a 4 year old car and no debts at all. We have $50,000 in GIC’s, $45,000 in RRSP’s, $105,000 in TFSA’s and $35,000 in RESP’s.

We are maxing out our RRSP’s, $320 a week, TFSA’s, $211 a week and GIC’s with $115 a week from RRSP income tax refunds, deduction at source.

We will keep it at this pace and by retirement have a $3,000,000 net worth house and investments. This plus C.P.P, OAS will be more than enough.

We have been maxing out everything since about 3 years ago as our mortgage was 80% paid off.

We have a son and paid all our own childcare out of pocket which is not going to a trade school and his part-time earnings in the summer, $8,000 a year plus our RESP’s will more than cover tuition, books, transportation etc.

The problem today is this something for nothing mentality and how it is a big drain on our society.

#172 Entrepreneur on 08.05.16 at 2:05 pm

Oh, how sweet money talks.

Old house across the street is in foreclosure at a higher price (about $60,000. more) than the owner paid for. Realtor showed the place to people and tells them to “be ready” and no sold sign. Are realtors using this place as an example to pay for a higher priced place in better conditions. Controlled mind set at play here!

Does this mind control remind you how the government parties like groups and how they favour them to get elected?

#173 steven H on 08.05.16 at 2:10 pm

Chicklit on 08.04.16 at 11:48 pm
Garth , you keep glossing over the fact that locals ‘can’t afford’ houses because they get outbid by foreign buyers who have a stronger currency that makes the C$ look like toilet paper, that a high percentage foreigners have been proven to be corrupt.

Tax the foreigners the same as Canadian citizens on all money brought to Canada as if it was earned in Canada, take 70% off the top and force them to pay the penalties for non payment of back taxes the way Canadians are when they try to save, and you might start leveling the playing field and earning some sympathy from the rest of us.

————————————

Please show us your source of “that a high percentage foreigners have been proven to be corrupt”. Otherwise, you’re just making it up.

Also, if we tax the foreigners the same as Canadian citizens on all money brought to Canada as if it was earned in Canada, are you also suggesting if they made $0.10 per hour working in Africa say but minimum wage in Canada is $10 per hour, we should top up their income on all money they bring to Canada as though they made $10 per hour?

#174 robert james on 08.05.16 at 2:30 pm

Now the Chinese are warning about a Canadian housing crash that would put the US to shame… It just gets better !! lol http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/stephen-punwasi/canadian-housing-crash_b_11349292.html

#175 Blacksheep on 08.05.16 at 2:39 pm

Rosie # 127,

I’m no expert on the topic, but I’m going to guess you probably don’t understand the role the C.I.A. actually plays in the world, or you wouldn’t be supplying someone connected to that enterprise, as a ‘credible source’ as deception is their expertise.

Yes of course….Billary is ‘In like Flynn’.

The FBI refuses to prosecute her crimes, now the CIA openly endorses her, just solidifying her as the systems choice for PotUS.

Question is: Should the system be allowed to pick the Pres, or should the people?

Do you still believe an American’s vote, matters?

What grandiose theatre….

#176 TRT on 08.05.16 at 2:58 pm

#152 TRT on 08.05.16 at 12:25 pm
YVR and YYZ are the only regions of growth in Canada.
The immigration (foreign students, home building, foreign $ inflows, etc. ) industry is the driving force.

With aging demographics, Canada is doomed In the medium term.

Just like I said when this blog opened, Toronto and Vancouver will be the only places booming. How right I was.

Actually you were wrong. — Garth
—————————————————-

Sorry, but many people of asian/S. asian heritage (myself included) consider Quebec a separate country for all practical purposes. Will not speak french nor move there. It has its own immigration system accepting 50,000 people a year.

Sorry, but i see a grassroots drive (why not?) here on the west coast to make mandarin and punjabi an official language of BC. If french can be here in YVR, why not punjabi just based on residents mother tongue?

Many

#177 Brazil ex-pat on 08.05.16 at 3:11 pm

#155 Ogopogo on 08.05.16 at 12:36 pm
Meanwhile, in “it’s different here” Alberta…

Alberta unemployment rises to 8.6% in July, highest rate since 1994

“The unemployment rate in Alberta has hit its highest level since September 1994, at 8.6 per cent in July, Statistics Canada says.

The July numbers were released on Friday in the federal agency’s monthly Labour Force Survey (LFS).

Over the past year, 104,000 full-time jobs were lost in Alberta.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-unemployment-statistics-canada-recessionfsda-1.3708709

No better time to load up on an overpriced cornflakes-pressed McMansion in Cowtown! Remember to borrow the 5% down payment for maximum leverage. What’s to fear? Housing prices can only go up, up, up! Just ask your friendly realtor, you know, the one with the garlic breath and the math skills of an Amazonian sloth on roofies.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HAHAHAHAHHAHA…..

I remember before we left for Brazil how people were “snapping up” all the corn flakes” boxes around where we live…that are already starting to fall apart I am told. That was a few years ago.

#178 Tudval on 08.05.16 at 3:12 pm

Scared to move? Not really. It’s not scary, it’s downright stupid. Put up your home for sale. ‘Bidding war’ only means you have to underprice and get whatever the market pays that particular week. Then pay the realtor for a ‘job well done’, the lawyers, + HST on top of it. Then get into another bidding war. If you are ‘successful’, you now have to pay the government, the lawyers (again), the movers etc.. All that for 200 sqft more or a slightly more convenient location. Not worth it.

Now, this new trend would be largely meaningless in regards to prices. But over time, I will admit, it can become a negative. All those people you don’t pay will have to do with less and eventually they may have some trouble paying their own bills. That will take some time to unfold.

In the meantime a lot of things can happen to keep the economy alive. Some real jobs may appear out of nowhere, some foreign buyers will show up given the sorry state the world is in (but we don’t want them, right) or failing all that, BOC will lower rates again and bring new buyers into the market.

What won’t happen is governments lower the land transfer tax (a ridiculous money grab), realtors cut their commission (after all the market is ‘competitive’, they only get 2 clients per year) or HST (a value added tax) be abolished on non-value added services (what value exactly is a realtor or a lawyer adding to anything?).

#179 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 3:15 pm

#174 TRT

Sorry, but many people of asian/S. asian heritage (myself included) consider Quebec a separate country for all practical purposes. Will not speak french nor move there. It has its own immigration system accepting 50,000 people a year.

”Sorry, but i see a grassroots drive (why not?) here on the west coast to make mandarin and punjabi an official language of BC. If french can be here in YVR, why not punjabi just based on residents mother tongue?

Many”
————————————————————-
My ancestors, the french first came to what is now Canada in 1661. The natives have been here much longer than they were yet none of their languages have been made an official language of Canada. So why should these others that you speak of be given special treatment?

#180 Nelley on 08.05.16 at 3:21 pm

DELETED

#181 Blacksheep on 08.05.16 at 3:25 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/jobs-canada-july-1.3708611

“Ontario lost 36,100 jobs last month. Newfoundland and Labrador saw a smaller employment decline,”

“while employment rose by 12,100 in British Columbia. B.C. now has the lowest unemployment rate in the country, at 5.6 per cent.”

“Alberta, on the other hand, saw its unemployment rate rise to a 22-year high of 8.6 per cent as more Albertans were looking for work.”

“The driving regional story for more than a year has been the outsized strength in B.C. and the pronounced weakness in Alberta, and the latest job numbers simply reinforced that trend,” said BMO chief economist Douglas Porter.”
————————————
Unemployment is down in BC, while most of the country rises, meaning job seekers from other provinces will place even more demand on RE in BC.

That and we can now expect another rate cut from Poloz ala, B.o.E.

It will be interesting to see if Garth’s, “Too late now” call, applies in Vancouver….

#182 Wordpress International on 08.05.16 at 3:38 pm

Ban Ben.
Yaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn…………………….

#183 Ogopogo on 08.05.16 at 3:48 pm

#156 ben on 08.05.16 at 12:38 pm
I don’t want a fight Garth, I’d like for you to try and be a little less dismissive of the kids inheriting the total mess bequeathed to them. And a little less bragging (that is what it was) about unearned income. Unearned income via exploitation of land is the reason this blog exists, so try to stay on track about the root causes.

Would you like some cheese for your whine?

#184 bdwy sktrn on 08.05.16 at 3:56 pm

The VIC-20 was announced in 1980,[4] roughly three years after Commodore’s first personal computer, the PET. The VIC-20 was the first computer of any description to sell one million units

i am just a couple years older and saw the birth of the PC as a youth also.
most kids then were still 100% unexposed to anything a comp could do (except games) . a very few of us were self-taught programming geniuses. :)
not until the late 90’s and the web and then the ipad
were kids ‘growing up’ with computers.
—————————————

Not so. Both my sons, born 1971 and 1972 are gen Xer’s. Gen X is considered to be from 1966 to 1976. Both were introduced to computers in 1980, first with the Radio Shack Color Computer and the Model III 16K the same year. They were 8 and 9. The following year after getting bored with playing games, my eldest son decided he wanted to learn to program. He was 10. He went out and spent his paper route money on programming books for the Model III and studied those for awhile then decided to enrol in a night school class at our local college to learn Basic programming. At first he was declined because of his age but being the persistent lad that he was, he talked the instructor into letting him in. The instructor quickly realized that this young man was extremly knowlegable with this stuff and soon had him assisting him in the class. He received is certificate with flying colors. He later upgraded to other computers (IBM, Apple, etc) and used them all through high school. So, for he and his brother, computers have been a big part of their lives since 1980 and continue to be today in their businesses.

#185 Moron Face on 08.05.16 at 4:02 pm

Those sales statistics are interesting. July is normally one if the busiest sales months, right?

#186 Crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.05.16 at 4:05 pm

@#159 ben
“I know it’s very hard for some people to imagine not exploiting the system for their own gain or caring about other generations, so sorry if you don’t get it.

Guess that’s how we got into this complete mess. Ah well not long until that generation is flushed through through the system….”
*******************************************

Riiiiiiiiight.
And then we’ll be looked after by the legions of kids who have been molly coddled by helicopter parents, constantly told they were “special” , ego stroked with “good job” for performing the simplest of everyday tasks that a dog would do 30 years ago for treats, forced fed politically correct non confrontationalist pablum until it vomits forth from their mouths like some endless mind numbing koombaya luv fest…….and all this when big, scary, “we don’t give two shits about your feelings or your environment” China is on the ascendance economically and militarily .

Flushing boomers down the toilet is the least of your worries.

#187 Freedom First on 08.05.16 at 4:21 pm

First. Thank you to the “Freedom First Impersonator Fan Club”!
This is the 1st Post here by the real Freedom First.

Second. Lots of anger on here now by the resentful losers.

I don’t care what your status is in life right now. What I do know, is that an attitude of : either, or all, self pity, blame, criticism, judgementalism, entitlement, envy, jealousy, or anger, will ruin your life.

Third. Life is hard. Know this, and do what ever it takes to get wherever you want to be. Think, and be creative.

#188 cramar on 08.05.16 at 4:21 pm

#169 Fred Longworth on 08.05.16 at 1:50 pm

———-

Congratulations Fred!

You and your spouse are living proof that you can’t control everything (full-time jobs), but can control some things (what you do with the cards you have been dealt). Your posting perfectly shows the latter. You show that people can STILL become financially successful in the current economic climate if they follow the ways that will STILL lead to success.

Quoting the late author Thomas J. Stanley of The Millionaire Next Door:
“Wealth is more often the result of a lifestyle of hard work, perseverance, planning, and, most of all, self-discipline.”

#189 rosie on 08.05.16 at 4:29 pm

#173 Blacksheep

You Trumpkins are consistent at least. Conspiracies everywhere. Anyway, the American people don’t directly choose the President, the electoral college does. As for the system choosing Clinton, well maybe they know best. The slack jawed yahoos that think Trump will save them from their own stupidity should go back to their monster truck rally and down a few corn dogs. They don’t get the system and never will.

#190 Tudval on 08.05.16 at 4:37 pm

#172 Are we supposed to give a @#*- about Chinese media now? For the benefit of their readers, I hope they are printing that on cottony soft paper.

#191 TRT on 08.05.16 at 5:07 pm

@177 Ronaldo:

“My ancestors, the french first came to what is now Canada in 1661. The natives have been here much longer than they were yet none of their languages have been made an official language of Canada. So why should these others that you speak of be given special treatment?”

Ummm because of democracy (In metro Vancouver, these ‘others’ is already a majority). Isn’t that how democracy works? or do i sense some bigotry?

The ‘Natives’ were colonized and invaded. The western europeans were invaders, not immigrants.

#192 bdwy sktrn on 08.05.16 at 5:12 pm

The net number of people coming to B.C. from other provinces has almost quadrupled since 2012, with a recent spike fuelled in large part by people leaving Alberta.

In the first quarter of 2016, between January and March, B.C. gained 5,000 more people from other parts of Canada than it lost, Statistics Canada figures show. This made B.C. the largest net recipient of interprovincial migrants in Canada. About half — 2,600 — were from Alberta. This was the second-highest quarterly gain in four years, with only July to September of 2015 higher, at 6,315.

#193 Crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.05.16 at 5:23 pm

@#176 Brazil ExPat
“I remember before we left for Brazil how people were “snapping up” all the corn flakes” boxes around where we live…that are already starting to fall apart I am told. That was a few years ago.”
********************************************

Apparently the Canadian tradespeople are a bit more skilled at construction than their Brazilian counter parts whose Olympic venues are falling apart even before the official opening…..

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi5maXOmqvOAhVQ4GMKHc2qBQwQFgg3MAc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibtimes.co.uk%2Fbrazil-faces-new-protests-rio-struggles-olympics-construction-safety-concerns-1573667&usg=AFQjCNE8lQJv0aoNmreduJmWDWt835AJRA&bvm=bv.129391328,d.cGc

#194 Context on 08.05.16 at 5:23 pm

#173 Blacksheep: – the election process in USA is all theatre to entertain the masses. Now if you need to vote on a touch screen just get over it when you vote for X but it goes to Y. Presidents are never elected in USA by the people as those in the shadow government need to get the right puppet into office.

#195 Renter's Revenge! on 08.05.16 at 5:38 pm

#178 Nelley on 08.05.16 at 3:21 pm
DELETED

Woah, Nelley!

#196 Julie K. on 08.05.16 at 5:46 pm

Invincible bubbles are actually a thing.

#VanRE

#197 Ronaldo on 08.05.16 at 6:02 pm

#189 TRT

You obviously need to bone up on your Canadian history. You sound a bit racist to me.

http://www.emmigration.info/french-immigration-to-america.htm

#198 Smoking Man on 08.05.16 at 6:09 pm

Been going hard on the wine since 2 rough week.

Will Gartho post the next day soon before my battery dies or I fall on my face.

Got tribute in my head for Lenord Cohen. It’s a race against time..

#199 ben on 08.05.16 at 6:10 pm

The mentality on this site is incredible.

Fred: don’t like to do this but you twist my arm. I earn more than you – guess I have a better work ethic than you. You should work harder. Get a weekend job, you’re pulling down the average.

The rest: if you are over a certain age you got lots for nothing. A cheap house, a good pension.

Now kids don’t have this. America has very bad inequality in part because if anyone complains about something clearly incorrect they are said to be “whining”.

The generational divide is not right, no matter how many ageing people say “just get on with it”.

All the talk on this site is personal anecdata. Lots of bragging. Lots of easy internet stuff “I bought low and sold high”. Virtually no analysis of the root causes.

Would love to know at what point you guys would admit the system needs changing. That’s all that will fix this, not joining in screwing the young with access to debt.

#200 Smoking Man on 08.05.16 at 6:14 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.3705984/so-long-marianne-leonard-cohen-s-final-letter-to-his-muse-1.3705989

Just in case… I don’t make it to the next hour

#201 broader mind on 08.05.16 at 6:17 pm

Just a guess Garth,did you leave a little money on the table when you sold your lakefront property with Ray . Also,I was born in 1960 so what does that make me other than mostly confused .

#202 DisgustMadeMePost on 08.05.16 at 6:38 pm

Um, just cuz you might live in a corner of one city where a large chunk of similar first language speakers reside, does not mean you get to demand official language status.

When I grew up in Van, our area was predominantly Italian. Guess what, no official language status for Italian. We all seemed to manage.

Don’t they advise immigrants of Canada’s official languages before they immigrate?

My folks knew . And they learned to speak at least one of them.

You’re free in Canada to speak whatever language you want without having to declare it ‘official’.

#203 Natives vs Europeans on 08.05.16 at 6:47 pm

#189 TRT

The ‘Natives’ were colonized and invaded. The western europeans were invaders, not immigrants.

#195 Ronaldo

You obviously need to bone up on your Canadian history. You sound a bit racist to me.

===

The natives were colonized and invaded on their own land.

From their perspective the Europeans were uninvited invaders, who destroyed them economically, culturally, spiritually on the scale that compares to any other genocide in history.

#204 generational problems on 08.05.16 at 6:52 pm

@Ben

I’m 48, married with 3 kids. Got lucky in real estate and with my business. Always worked hard and bought / sold at right times. The economy was growing. Life was easier. My kids will have it harder which is why my wife and I are not spending on ourselves. The kids will need funding for good education and to set them up with a business later-on.

You’re right. The system is broken and needs a fix. Suggesting that pensions at 60+ can be paid for 20, 25 or 30 years is sheer lunacy. It can’t work and it won’t work. The generations born shortly after the war were luckier than my generation. They could get into better paying jobs without spending years in schools and paying thousands in tuitions. Why? Because there was nobody else available and globalization wasn’t an issue.

I’ve learned early on not to take anything for granted – ever. The world is very very competitive and it will get harder. I don’t need to drive the latest and best car or live in the biggest house in the fanciest neighborhood. The kids won’t benefit from it.

My advise to you is to try and carve out a niche and become very good at what you do, maybe become the best. Don’t waste time or money. Be organized and avoid the temptations of “keeping up with the Jones”

What’s the most important thing to you?

#205 Natives vs Europeans on 08.05.16 at 6:56 pm

Smoking Man

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.3705984/so-long-marianne-leonard-cohen-s-final-letter-to-his-muse-1.3705989

So long Marianne, thanks Mr Cohen.

#206 Metaxa on 08.05.16 at 7:01 pm

@ #197 ben:

I came here because I know a little bit about business but not so much about investing in today’s climate.
Read a bit, poked around a bit, got to know some different voices.

Now mostly confine myself to telling stories that hopefully entertain a bit, make folks happy they spent the time wading through the chaff to find the odd kernel.

I figure if Garth has the bandwidth to indulge the Trumpellators and the doomers then he must have some for me.

Anyway…I’m old and certainly prospered mightily from selling real estate (lucky, not good) but I just wanted to take the time to tell you I “hear” you.
Not only hear you but maybe 60-70% in agreement.

My father thought he had it easier than me or my brother in accumulating and I know for a fact I had it easier than my children now do.

There is a big whack of silent readers here too, you must know by now why so many read only, eh?

Once you trigger these guys civil discourse goes away fast.

Anyway some of the stuff I did when young should have put me in prison, still would I suspect, but I had a blast and somehow along the way became a homeowner, business owner and celebrate a 40+ year marriage…wonderful kids with tattoos only God or a competent lover can find, enough friends and have almost perfected deep woods North Carolina pulled pork; pork, bun, sauce and all.

As I tell my kids…if I can do it then anybody can.
And remember, whisky and pain both taste the same during the time they go down. (JP)

#207 robert james on 08.05.16 at 7:19 pm

#195 This is the defintion of a racist according to this site..https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=racist I mean,,come give me a break.. I was in Hanoi a few years ago.. there were people cooking on the sidewalk ,you had to step over their pots and hope you did not get burnt,,, crossing the street was pretty funny as you had a 1000 or more 2 cycle motor bikes coming at you at all times,,we were told don`t stop just keep walking as you will confuse them.. So,,the choice is yours,,do you want to live in a 2 million dollar shit shack and put up and live with this ?? If you want racism ,go to Japan ,or try buying a house in China.. Why not talk to the Tibetans about racism..

#208 Andrew Woburn on 08.05.16 at 7:31 pm

The coming decades will bring population shrinkage not seen since the Black Death. Good for wages, bad for GDP.

https://twitter.com/jeremiahdillon/status/761407133640425472

#209 ben on 08.05.16 at 8:45 pm

I think this site has a real problem with anecdotes vs data.

I’m fine. I have a good job. It’s not about me. It’s not about *my* kids. It’s about the next generation on average. On average they are fucked. If the current system of which so many on here are proud of profiting from continues then we collectively have big problems.

Want to be like the USA with huge inequality and attendant gun crime?

If not then take a long hard look at the system and that starts with not posting “I did no work and got 500K aren’t I great”.

Recognise unearned gains for what they are: someone else’s loss. The term is “zero sum game”. Recognise wealth creation and celebrate that, even if you have to get off your ass.

We can all take the easy choices like trying to keep our job by implementing a policy we know in our heart will damage the nation, then lose it anyway. Or go long real estate to cash in then brag about it on a blog.

And that way lies hell in a hand kart.

#210 ben on 08.05.16 at 8:47 pm

Though I would add thanks to the last two posters who appear not to be the dreadful boomer hillbilly variety that dominate this site. Have a great weekend and try to create wealth not appropriate it.

#211 Tony on 08.05.16 at 9:10 pm

Re: #3 When will they learn on 08.04.16 at 7:33 pm

I guess you didn’t hear about the 15 percent tax out in Vancouver? It means Vancouver will crash then the GTA will crash… DUH!!

Garth should do one on “is there any investments worst than Vancouver or Toronto real estate over the next 25 years?” None I can come up with not even coal or iron ore.

#212 Tony on 08.05.16 at 9:29 pm

Re: #165 JP on 08.05.16 at 1:20 pm

I’m betting the farm on rate cuts coming to America later this year. The ruse will only last until election time then negative interest rates in American around the end of the first quarter 2017.

Every bit as credible as your call for a 90% drop in stock markets. — Garth