The trap

TIPS modified

Karen was pretty pumped as she made that long drive back to Calgary. She’d found the right property two hours away and made an offer on the spot after viewing it with the listing agent. Now she wanted to share the moment with somebody.

“That same evening on my drive home I phoned my friend and excitedly told her of my new offer,” she told me. But things didn’t go exactly as planned.

Karen’s bud is a realtress. In fact the two of them started looking at properties together back in the city before the friend went off on a holiday and Karen redirected her search out of town, to a new region. It was during that phone call their friendship took a back seat to mammon as the realtor reminded Karen that she’d signed a BRA.

This document is called a Buyer Representation Agreement. Do not complete one. If the realtor insists, then say you’ll agree to a BRA if you find a property you wish to offer on, then only for that specific location. Never pen an agreement on which the realtor has written just the name of the city, or the province. You could regret it.

If you’re a newbie to this pathetic blog, let me remind you of how this sucker can bite you in the butt. It’s all about commission (big surprise).

First, you (the buyer) could be liable for the entire commission on the purchase of any property if the vendor decides not to pay it, if there’s a dispute over the amount, or full payment isn’t made at the time of closing – for whatever reason. This is despite the fact the seller had an obligation to do so.

Here’s what the BRA says: “The buyer agrees to pay directly to the Brokerage any deficiency between this amount and the amount, if any, to be paid to the Brokerage by a listing brokerage or by the seller. The buyer understands that if the Brokerage is not to be paid any commission by a listing brokerage or by the seller, the Buyer will pay the Brokerage the full amount of commission indicated.”

Second, you (the buyer) could be nailed for commission if you end up buying (or even renting) any property whatsoever if (like Karen) you don’t do it through the guy who made you sign the BRA. Even if you do it months after the agreement expires. Even if another agent shows you that property. Even miles away.

Here’s what the BRA says: “The buyer agrees to pay the Brokerage such commission if the buyer enters into an agreement within 90 days after the expiration of this agreement (Holdover Period) to purchase or lease any property shown or introduced to the Buyer from any source whatsoever during the term of this Agreement, provided, however, that if the Buyer enters into a new buyer representation agreement with another registered real estate brokerage after the expiration of this Agreement, the Buyer’s liability to pay commission to the Brokerage shall be reduced by the amount paid to the other brokerage under the new agreement.”

Third, if you (the buyer) enter into an agreement to buy a house, then get cold feet and back out, or decide you can’t actually afford it, or face a cruel death from your wife if you complete the deal, you’re screwed. Now your agent can sue you (along with the seller) since the agreement makes you liable to pay the commission as if the closing had taken place.

Here’s what the BRA says: “The Buyer agrees to pay such commission as described above even if a transaction contemplated by an agreement to purchase or lease agreed to or accepted by the Buyer or anyone on the Buyer’s behalf is not completed, if such non-completion is owing or attributable to the Buyers default or neglect.”

Moreover if, like Karen, you sign a general BRA, then buy a property with a specific one through another agent, you’re also likely a screwee. She explains:

“I’d asked another agent to show me properties and put that offer in on one within a week.  When the offer was being signed and I was asked to sign an exclusive BRA. I stated that I thought I already signed an agreement with my other agent and asked if we should call her to confirm.  He said no that it was not big deal that I could back date a termination letter.  He then back dated our agreement, I was unsure why but he stated it was normal practice.  I signed the exclusive BRA agreement with the second realtor completely unaware of the breach I caused.”

Karen’s first agent asked her to send a letter to the second agent instructing that 25% of the commission be remitted to her (the realtor). The selling agent’s broker balked. Now it will go into litigation. Whatever the outcome, Karen can be sure of one thing – if the realtors cannot sort this out, she’ll be responsible for paying the commission on a property she did not sell, and to an agent who did no work.

Never sign a BRA that doesn’t accompany an offer. If the agent refuses, walk. There are 109,000 of them to choose from.

____

Oct 9 update: Here is a note from real estate consultant and former realtor Ross Kay in response to the above…

A REALTOR signs a BRA and after two weeks of showing properties goes on holidays.  The week they are away a property comes for sale and sells that meets the criteria laid out in the BAA.  The Buyer is never told about this property until the REALTOR gets back and says too bad we missed it….it was perfect for you.

The Buyer now simply sues the Brokerage and the REALTOR for damages.  The Buyer would need an incompetent lawyer to lose such a case.  

The Brokerage and the REALTOR now also face charges under provincial real estate trading acts.  High fines, education and years of public humiliation are now part of the package.

Kathy may be surprised to find out she in fact does not need to pay either REALTOR in her case because both failed to fulfill the requirements necessary in order for them to even get the BAA signed.

Her friend was required to explain the BAA and it’s terms completely and accurately.  Her friend had to explain the procedure that her brokerage would follow while she was on holidays so Kathy would not be hurt. Her friend and her friends brokerage were required to tell Kathy that the Brokerage and not the friend was the one Kathy was accountable to for paying.

The REALTOR who sold her the house, was required to ask Kathy ( get it in writing) that Kathy had not already signed another BRA.  The REALTOR who sold her the house had to explain to Kathy that Kathy was on the hook with her friend.  The REALTOR who sold her the house also had to tell Kathy before Kathy signed the offer, the exact amount of commission Kathy had to pay including any taxes that needed to be included. 

Both REALTORS also had to tell Kathy that unlike a Seller Agency Agreement, all the clauses in a BAA can be changed and if not the risk Kathy was assuming if those clauses remained as pre-printed on the form.

What happened to Kathy is simply against the law.

Most REALTORS are not even qualified to meet the basic obligations they undertake when signing a BAA themselves.  That is why the law limits REALTORS to a very very very finite set of activities because they must lower expectations of the consumer to the lowest common denominator of the profession.

  *     *    *

So why are Millennials horny for real estate even when this will render them indebted, immobile, inflexible, penurious and pale, sad imitations of their parents?

  • They were shaped by the GFC, watched their folks being hosed with high-MER mutual funds sold by commission-mad salesguys and now simply mistrust financial markets. Besides, houses always go up. It says so on Twitter.
  • Speaking of parents, the kids have been utterly indoctrinated by mom & dad who grew up in a different (inflationary) time, with a one-asset strategy. It worked for them, so they imbue Junior. See the last bullet point, below.
  • Excessive education has delayed adulthood, marriage, careers and finances. Virgins swallow the property hype and think this is a fast-track way to catch up. So cute.
  • The Bank of Mom. Doting, copter parents believe it’s smart to circumvent the laws of economics and shovel down payment money onto their spawn, so they can be massively indebted, never leave the hood and come for dinner every Sunday.
  • The 99% thing. And the NDP. Most Millennials lean to the left, eschew ‘banksters’, hate Wall Street and would eat the rich. Somehow they think ending up with a condo and an epic mortgage held by a bank makes them special.
  • Financial illiteracy. Real estate involves massive leverage, big risk, huge fees and recurring costs. Prices are at an historic high and unsustainable by every measure. Millennials say they’re afraid of risk and yet flock to the flame. Fortunately, they know everything, so what can possibly go wrong?

186 comments ↓

#1 Godth on 10.08.15 at 6:05 pm

It’s all bullshit, we get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sROqdlMyl8E

#2 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:07 pm

Steve French.

Go to my last post from yesterday. If you want to know how I avoid the delete button.

There are rules you only discover from trial and error.

#3 MSM-Free Zone on 10.08.15 at 6:10 pm

And, the most important reason of all:

• No woman on Plenty-of-Fish nor Match.com would ever date a male renter.

#4 Joeyjojo on 10.08.15 at 6:11 pm

AA misses on earnings and revenue…

#5 Intuitive Missus on 10.08.15 at 6:15 pm

Just had to post this after I read it.

Let’s hope the loopholes in the tax system will be closed to prevent this type of abuse of the system. Everyone needs to pay their fair share. This is the kind of news that really irritates honest, hard-working tax payers. We set ourselves up to be screwed over. Makes my blood boil to read stuff like this.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/the-real-estate-beat/foreign-investors-avoid-taxes-by-buying-real-estate-in-canada/article26683767/

Worry about something that matters. It’s not this. — Garth

#6 Ben on 10.08.15 at 6:18 pm

Seeing that a BRA is so mind-blowingly advantageous for the realtor, are there are real-estate agencies left that DON’T impose such outrageous contracts upon the buyer?

#7 ILoveCharts on 10.08.15 at 6:20 pm

Realtors are criminals

#8 rainclouds on 10.08.15 at 6:24 pm

The bad:
Like so much with the RE industry, oversight is long overdue. Franken numbers/access to MLS/
high commissions/ BRA’s

The Good:
MER’s,
mandated disclosure in $$$ amounts for Mutual fund commissions coming July 15 2016. Gonna be a Bad summer for the shysters splaining how much they have been skimming…..kharma, its a bitch

#9 Godth on 10.08.15 at 6:24 pm

What other choice do we have but to keep lying to ourselves? At least a house is tangible, unlike other completely abstract options. The real question is what hits the wall of reality first: housing, stock markets (both debt/leverage) or war? Of course it’s all interrelated. Fantasy is fun while it lasts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5CZxplaZ3c&index=2&list=PLWdWSzfHFy6sg1n98lRYZ5divmWBISiMU

#10 Canadian on 10.08.15 at 6:24 pm

So its either Lethbridge or Red Deer.

My guess is Red Deer, as the Lethbridge market hasn’t had much of a dip from the oil price drop (strong ag and expensive beef does that). But who in their right mind would need to put an offer down on a property in a place like Red Deer on first viewing? They aren’t exactly a hotbed of bidding wars these days

#11 John Doe on 10.08.15 at 6:30 pm

Well, maybe they should learn how bad it was for the Americans in the GFC when their house lost 1/3 of its value. The same is about to happen in Canada.

#12 Jay on 10.08.15 at 6:33 pm

One thing to stress is that a representation agreement isn’t inherently bad or evil — your realtor has likely been doing good work for you and has been doing so in order to get paid. What’s bad is an overbroad representation agreement that occurs too early in the process.

#13 Jimbo on 10.08.15 at 6:34 pm

No commentary on the latest news on all the Chinese money in Vancouver? Someone did some actual reporting for once!

#14 common sense on 10.08.15 at 6:40 pm

Yep..That about says it all.

Just add peer pressure.

Over and Out.

#15 TurnerNation on 10.08.15 at 6:41 pm

Haha Gartho must be a Jays fan.

#16 A Yank in BC on 10.08.15 at 6:42 pm

Rangers win.

#17 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:45 pm

This old dude, beauty of man started same day as me in this new gig. He has a PhD in math and Physics from MIT. One of his pals did all the work and his boss just got the Nobel Peace prize with his discovery of mass in neutrinos. He had some imput too.

Now we have a training manual two inches thick. He goes page by page and is advancing.

I took one look at the manual and said nope. I just started messing with the software. Trial and Error.

We are both at about the same spot. But we have two distinctive learning styles. But I discovered some gaps in it that are not in the manual. So I’m a bit ahead..

I totally deserve my PhD in Herdonomics. I can keep up with the best of the best.

What I get a kick out off, I’m helping him with VBA and Sql.

At lunch, I gave my argument on universal shrinkage.

In like five minutes he had and equation on the white board.

He said both scenarios are valid arguments. Could be either or. In fact the shrinkage scenario makes more logical sense, he’s going to work on it. Has some issues with red shift what ever that means.

He’s had some health problems, I said if you Mathifide this, take all the credit, I’m already famous.

Applause anyone.

Dr Smoking Man
PhD Herdonomics

#18 Mocha on 10.08.15 at 6:48 pm

#3

It’s not “inherently bad or evil”, just unnecessary and ripe for abuse by unethical salespeople.

#19 Buyer Beware on 10.08.15 at 6:48 pm

I’ve never had to sign a BRA (Buyer Representation Agreement) since I always used a Realtor to do the work and negotiation for me. Plus, they pick you up and drive you all over town looking at houses… it’s fun.

Just remember to keep your mouth shut. Don’t tell your Realtor details like how bad you need to move or how much money you have (or can get from your Mom and Dad, if necessary)… this can later be used to leverage you into a deal that favours the seller.

I strongly recommend first finding the specific neighbourhood you want to live in, and then find a realtor WHO REALLY KNOWS THAT part of town.

WHY!?

I know a guy that overpaid on a house. Here’s how. The short story is, he gave up trying to find affordable housing in N. Van, so crossed the water into Poco and… voila! Cheaper housing, right? He and his Wife instantly fell in love with a house that was overpriced sitting on the market for 60+ days… They bought it… and found out shortly after they paid about 25K too much.

The lesson: Realtor’s can be your best friend (e.g. help you find you an unaware buyer)… or they can decide NOT TO TELL YOU the whole story… just to get you SOLD so they can move on to the next customer.

But where is the harm in all of this? Zero…. buyer beware.

#20 S.Bby on 10.08.15 at 6:57 pm

I thought a contract had to have mutual benefit (consideration) to both parties to be enforceable. How does a BRA benefit the buyer? It’s all one sided for the agent.

#21 Charles Ponzi on 10.08.15 at 6:59 pm

Don’t forget the role of the media. Here in Australia, real estate advertisements are presented as news.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-08/real-estate-auction-underquoting-not-going-away/6838338?section=business

“Make sure that if a property passes in, it passes in to you,” he said.

“Go in and negotiate, if you have a genuine vendor and a genuine buyer, normally the deal will get done.

“If you are standing back and not participating you are going to miss the property.”

#22 What about CMHC? on 10.08.15 at 7:03 pm

Garth,
I must know this before I vote:
what is the role of PMO in Canadian government? Who do MPs work for PMO?

Sorry this is off-topic but we are just days away from electing/re-electing our PM.

#23 A Nobody on 10.08.15 at 7:04 pm

Not sure if the hate you have on mutual funds garth serves your purposes here as much as you think.

I mean, I’m not thrilled about investing in financial markets at all really but I would think that a percentage point a year is certainly not gonna make that much of a difference in the success of an individual investor over the long term. I mean performance of underlying product sold as well as asset allocation is going to have a much mgreater impact than an extra point, or point and a half.

In all fairness , I would rather just buy an Individual stock or two if I had conviction but this diatribe against mutual funds is hurting your cause I think

#24 ROCK BEATS PAPER on 10.08.15 at 7:12 pm

Garth,

Where is the tip jar for you. There should be a button where we can make a donation to you for your site!

#25 Mocha on 10.08.15 at 7:13 pm

#5

Our country’s laws are a laughing stock to those people and nothing is done about it but revenue Canada will come after YOU with the full force of the law if you forget to cross a T.

People in Vancouver, who have known about this for years, face discrimination and labels of “racist” ,”xenophobe”, etc… when we dare to mention it. Your opinions and concerns take a back seat when they run against the big money.

#26 Smartalox on 10.08.15 at 7:14 pm

DELETED

#27 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 7:15 pm

Feds not spiking this year, boc is definitely going to cut.

Buy USDCAD. 100 contacts will net you 400k by the end of the month.

#28 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 7:17 pm

#16 A Yank in BC on 10.08.15 at 6:42 pm
Rangers win.
….

Love it, those tree hugging Kathleen supporters crying like infants… Go Rangers.

#29 Smartalox on 10.08.15 at 7:18 pm

@MSM – Free Zone:
That’s not a reason, all you’ve got to say is “Of COURSE I rent baby; I waiting to buy a place for us to build our life together!”

#30 Godth on 10.08.15 at 7:28 pm

#17 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:45 pm

Universal shrinkage, lol – is that what you tell the hag?
Halton Arp Intrinsic Red Shift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EckBfKPAGNM

The big bang is based on the Monad, an obelisk in 3D, it’s an ancient metaphysical contemplation turned literal by a Catholic priest. A theory that’s propagandized as fact.

The first chapter of this book will explain it to you and you’ll have to collect your brain back up after it’s running out your ears. I know you don’t read but…
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/479399.Lectures_on_Ancient_Philosophy

#31 Universal shrinkage on 10.08.15 at 7:37 pm

In what sense?

#32 Steve French on 10.08.15 at 7:37 pm

Smoking Man:

Well, all i can say.. is that it’s a sad day indeed when you can’t even tell engaging stories of conversations with one’s own penis on Greater Fool.

Sheesh… what is this world coming to…

#33 Rural Rick on 10.08.15 at 7:39 pm

Well Smoking Man I did notice you withheld information about the oscillation of the two states.
You still are holding the high ground.

#34 change-up on 10.08.15 at 7:41 pm

# 8 Rainclouds

The Good:
MER’s,
mandated disclosure in $$$ amounts for Mutual fund commissions coming July 15 2016. Gonna be a Bad summer for the shysters splaining how much they have been skimming…..kharma, its a bitch
……….…………………………………………………………

[email protected] has a new model to counter the disclousure requirements comimg. Move clients into lower MER fee mutual funds, increase their management fee to compensate for the loss of the trailer fee.

#35 Godth on 10.08.15 at 7:46 pm

#30 Steve French on 10.08.15 at 7:37 pm

“Sheesh… what is this world coming to…”

Universal shrinkage apparently.

I guess Smoking man is experiencing the inhalation of the breath of Brahma (as opposed to the exhalation). The funny part is he thinks he’s onto something new.

#36 ANON on 10.08.15 at 7:52 pm

@#9 Godth on 10.08.15 at 6:24 pm
Interesting questions, Godth. Here’s my humble attempt to answer them, hoping to ease some of your very understandable anger.

What other choice do we have but to keep lying to ourselves?

None. It is the way of the world.

At least a house is tangible, unlike other completely abstract options.

Most likely there will not be a shortage of houses in the near future. It is somewhat debatable (and domer-ish) about shortages of many other things, but not for houses, really. It is a humongous bubble.

The real question is what hits the wall of reality first: housing, stock markets (both debt/leverage) or war?

The promises (a.k.a money) slam first into the wall of reality, as always, which is, of course, the last thing everyone expects, because promises are always taken for granted, and never understood as being the main driver in the narrative. Probably like fish not being able to explain water until they are landed. And not even then, too busy flopping around.

#37 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 7:52 pm

#28 Godth on 10.08.15 at 7:28 pm
#17 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:45 pm

Universal shrinkage, lol – is that what you tell the hag?
Halton Arp Intrinsic Red Shift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EckBfKPAGNM

The big bang is based on the Monad, an obelisk in 3D, it’s an ancient metaphysical contemplation turned literal by a Catholic priest. A theory that’s propagandized as fact.

The first chapter of this book will explain it to you and you’ll have to collect your brain back up after it’s running out your ears. I know you don’t read but…
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/479399.Lectures_on_Ancient_Philosophy

……

It’s all about problem, resolution….

The choice, JD and shrinkage vs JD and toys.

The hag not complaining, in fact she’s never been happier. Me too.

Win win, that’s how I roll..

#38 Intuitive Missus on 10.08.15 at 7:53 pm

#17- Smoking Man
Love your story today. Your “learn by doing” style is a style of learning I know well. What a team you and the old dude will make. He will be able to articulate – mathematically, that is – what you already know in your mind. Awesome!!

#39 For those about to flop... on 10.08.15 at 7:57 pm

I just realized I have a dentist appointment the day of the election.
Not to sure which is going to be more painful ,and got me thinking…
Trudeau is like pulling teeth
Harper, I’d like to knock his out
Mulcair , does he even have any teeth?

#40 TurnerNation on 10.08.15 at 7:58 pm

So, if seller knows buyer donned a BRA, they withhold commission upon sale and force buyer’s payment therein? Cool.
The moral is, hazard.

#41 bdy sktrn on 10.08.15 at 8:03 pm

ok , now it’s getting stupid…

1.4m ask for the tear down next door just listed

sale at this price reflects 50% gain in less than 3 years.

in ‘shitty’ east van

woot!

hey s bby, don’t feel bad, burnaby is hot too!

#42 Godth on 10.08.15 at 8:04 pm

#35 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 7:52 pm

So the hag likes toys versus shrinkage, fair enough.

There’s no resolution to a paradox.

#43 karen's cell phone on 10.08.15 at 8:05 pm

I hope Karen isn’t one of those idiots who talks on their cell phone whilst driving

#44 Daisy Mae on 10.08.15 at 8:05 pm

#7: “Realtors are criminals.”

**************

No doubt about it.

#45 Brunett43 on 10.08.15 at 8:06 pm

Ewww….ahhhh…ouch! She’s screwed.

#46 Bottoms_Up on 10.08.15 at 8:09 pm

#17 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:45 pm
———————————
Red shift is the light that comes at us from distant galaxies. Depending on the extent of redshift tells us whether things are expanding or contracting. I’m fairly certain it has been proven that we are expanding.

#47 TurnerNation on 10.08.15 at 8:12 pm

Climate change scammers in Canada.

(never forget the war is on our freedom of movement. Soon, illegal to drive if you own a VW diesel. Carbon taxes will soon stifle air travel. The elites laugh in their private jets. Bombs away from war planes and ships overseas. Hidden from us. No expense spared for war (land grabs)).

http://www.stockwatch.com/News/Item.aspx?bid=Z-C:*CURRENT-2316374&symbol=*CURRENT&region=C

“Wealthy U.S. philanthropists are spending massive amounts of money with the ultimate goal of influencing energy policy in Canada, a Vancouver investment conference heard on Thursday. Financiers, which include big names such as the Rockefeller Foundation, are paying the way for environmentalists and Indian bands in Canada to oppose oil projects. In doing so, they are turning Canada into the “fossil fuel fall guy.”

Speaking to about 200 attendees, she said Canada’s oil producers have become the target of a well-financed environmental movement that has replaced the older generation of environmentalists, the ones that received no pay and had homemade signs.

This new movement has financial backing in the hundreds of millions of dollars, and Ms. Krause claims to know where much of it comes from. She has gone through thousands of pages of tax forms (the kind filed in the U.S., which have more details than their Canadian counterparts) and has discovered that a network of organizations, all based in the U.S., are bankrolling these environmentalists.

This has allowed Canadian environmentalists to put on media-driven events around the country, all with the goal of influencing the public and, ultimately, politicians. Among the examples Ms. Krause cited was a group planning a welcome for Canada’s next prime minister. The group is planning a four-day sit-in at the prime minister’s residence for Nov. 5 to Nov. 8. The stated goal is to give the prime minister a “proper climate welcome,” with that welcome to include “serious, but gentle” civil disobedience.

She says the money behind this sit-in and other environmental protests is part of a campaign to shift demand away from Canadian oil….

#48 pale is bad on 10.08.15 at 8:12 pm

DELETED

#49 johnk on 10.08.15 at 8:14 pm

IMHO, at least 50% of real estate agents have failed at everything else they tried and flogging RE is the last stop.

#50 Freedom First on 10.08.15 at 8:19 pm

Karen=typical Canadian. I think Karen got offlucky. Or not? No subject too’s-home inspection,etc.?

Ignorance is not bliss. It is very expensive. No exception. Trust me. I am here to help.

Good news. Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid can’t. But both can have a mentor. Make sure you listen to them and do what they say. Because it would be like choosing to argue with Garth. If you do, you’re wrong. And he doesn’t even charge you here.

#51 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 8:20 pm

44 Bottoms_Up on 10.08.15 at 8:09 pm
#17 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:45 pm
———————————
Red shift is the light that comes at us from distant galaxies. Depending on the extent of redshift tells us whether things are expanding or contracting. I’m fairly certain it has been proven that we are expanding.
….

Really ,any time I have conversation with the little brain, he’s going with shrinkage.

Nothing has been proven, I’m from Nectonite, and I can tell you with certainty it’s shrinkage.

99% of Science, mind you the ones who’s bread is buttered by a money agenda will say, humans cause global warming.

I tend to go a few layers down of an onion before I for a conclusion.

Beilive in what makes you happy, just don’t bet on it unless you can deal with tears.

#52 Godth on 10.08.15 at 8:20 pm

#34 ANON on 10.08.15 at 7:52 pm
Those questions were mainly rhetorical (but I think you knew that). There’s always the option to get real, painful as it may be. (won’t happen until it has to happen, I know)

Yes, of course housing is a bubble. One only has to look outside VAN. and TOR. to see that prices are stagnant/falling. The stock market is a total clusterfuck too, while we’re pretending to be real.

I see things flopping around all over the globe. Don’t worry though, in our entitled world of self delusion we always catch more fish. Like the factory trawlers and the Grand Banks cod fishery – it’s a never ending cornucopia.

The heights of delusion are astounding, and the b.s. we tell ourselves…

#53 Neutrino on 10.08.15 at 8:23 pm

Smoking man … My Nobel Prize neutrino theory is that the endless stream of neutrinos (they have two states), create a mobile network of the universe, where the state of all objects – tiny and huge – is constantly “monitored” and “reported”
in real time. Hence is “the eye of God sees everything”.

#54 BC Guy on 10.08.15 at 8:27 pm

Thanks for the heads-up on the BRA.

Any realtor who tries to sue a buyer with a BRA like that should be sent to the guillotines.

#55 Fabulost on 10.08.15 at 8:27 pm

#3- MSM Freezone – Funny, I can’t recall being surveyed about renting being a “deal breaker”. Drugs, Pets and living long distance were “deal breaking” questions but not about renting. Huh. Now if they asked me about people who make misinformed generalizations….now tha-a-a-at’s a “deal breaker”.

#56 pale is bad on 10.08.15 at 8:35 pm

Garth it’s interesting how white people, like yourself, who want to make a point to a mass audience feel compelled to shame them on their skin colour.

I can’t think of any example where asians, africans or people from india, when trying to drive a point home to one another, ever feel compelled to shame each on skin colour.

So why do feel the need to do it?

I said “pale imitation”. This is a new low. I did not think it possible. — Garth

#57 Zinc Whiskers on 10.08.15 at 8:36 pm

You posted this already back in NOV 2011.

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2011/11/13/the-trouble-with-bras/

As I stated, the BRA warning was for newbies. You don’t have much to do these days, do you? — Garth

#58 Sosuke Aizen on 10.08.15 at 8:39 pm

“Prices are at an [sic] historic high…”

Garth, I’ve told you before. It’s a historic high. Historic doesn’t begin with a vowel sound, and therefore cannot be preceded by an. For further reading, go to BetterWritingSkills.com, Oxford Dictionaries, or Quick and Dirty Tips.

#59 JC Collins on 10.08.15 at 8:53 pm

Garth, love this last statement:

“Financial illiteracy. Real estate involves massive leverage, big risk, huge fees and recurring costs. Prices are at an historic high and unsustainable by every measure. Millennials say they’re afraid of risk and yet flock to the flame. Fortunately, they know everything, so what can possibly go wrong?”

I usually get blank stares when mentioning buying at the top of a market in an economic downturn. Especially here in Alberta.

There’s a lot of people walking in circles and scratching their heads in Fort McMurray. They still can’t figure it out. Most are still hoping and expecting a quick turnaround with no understanding of the larger macro economics.

#60 pale is bad on 10.08.15 at 8:55 pm

You said “penurious and pale”. In otherwords poor and white.

Sigh. — Garth

#61 nonplused on 10.08.15 at 9:05 pm

BRAs of both kinds simply don’t offer any benefits, restrict things, spoil the fun, and cost wasted money.

Ban the BRA! Or Burn it or whatever.

#62 Blue Jays Crushed, Just Like YYZ Real Estate Will Be! on 10.08.15 at 9:06 pm

And the pathetic millennials line up to buy Blue Jays caps, convinced success like this season has never happened before.

Funny eh – 1992-93 was the height of Jays success and also pretty much the depths of the last real estate meltdown.

So it is logically time for the Jays to repeat as champions.

But of course that real estate part will never repeat – we are special!

#63 IHCTD9 on 10.08.15 at 9:08 pm

#28 Godth on 10.08.15 at 7:28 pm
#17 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:45 pm

Universal shrinkage, lol – is that what you tell the hag?
Halton Arp Intrinsic Red Shift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EckBfKPAGNM

The big bang is based on the Monad, an obelisk in 3D, it’s an ancient metaphysical contemplation turned literal by a Catholic priest. A theory that’s propagandized as fact.

The first chapter of this book will explain it to you and you’ll have to collect your brain back up after it’s running out your ears. I know you don’t read but…
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/479399.Lectures_on_Ancient_Philosophy
———————————–

Please.

Stop.

Your posts are getting harder to read than Naked Lunch.

#64 Drill Baby Drill on 10.08.15 at 9:10 pm

The trouble with BRA’s is that they hold everything up!!

#65 Ret on 10.08.15 at 9:19 pm

#5 I agree. If you live here and enjoy the benefits of Canadian society, you can’t expect a free ride just because you are a Permanent Resident.

Canadians pay capital gains taxes when the flip investment properties. Are there two sets of rules at the CRA?

#66 Godth on 10.08.15 at 9:23 pm

#60 IHCTD9 on 10.08.15 at 9:08 pm

You are the naked lunch.
“Nothing But Cattle In An Industrial Processing Facility”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-03/guest-post-nothing-cattle-industrial-processing-facility

btw, you ignorant tool…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

If you had a classical liberal education (trivium & quadrivium) you wouldn’t be surprised.

#67 Retired WI Curmudgeon on 10.08.15 at 9:24 pm

Universal Shrinkage:

a trip to your local grocery where the packages have decreased in content, but not the price.

Lately most every brokerage account.

Any guy in a cold lake.

The fish story vs. the actual fish.

OK, gotta have some fun on here…

#68 broader mind on 10.08.15 at 9:25 pm

#25 Smokie your losing your touch.CAD will be rising against USD. Oil rising like a tsunami.As for BRA,the’re for wearing by women and fat men,certainly not for signing.

#69 Admirer on 10.08.15 at 9:26 pm

What happens to the TFSA if the Liberals get a minority government?

#70 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 9:34 pm

#51 Neutrino on 10.08.15 at 8:23 pm
Smoking man … My Nobel Prize neutrino theory is that the endless stream of neutrinos (they have two states), create a mobile network of the universe, where the state of all objects – tiny and huge – is constantly “monitored” and “reported”
in real time. Hence is “the eye of God sees everything”.
..

A Japanese alpha, took it from the brains of real smart dudes.

I should be a teacher, teaching Smoking Man, so the real innovators get the credit they deserve.

Life’s not fair.

#71 MSM-Free Zone on 10.08.15 at 9:34 pm

#7 ILoveCharts on 10.08.15 at 6:20 pm
Realtors are criminals

#42 Daisy Mae on 10.08.15 at 8:05 pm
“Realtors are criminals.”
No doubt about it.
_________________________

Actually, as much I despise the majority of REALTURD®’s I have dealt with, put the blame on our Canadian politicians who continue to allow themselves to be lobbied into letting REALTURD®’s behave like criminals.

As Garth has pointed out many times, such deceitful behaviour would never be tolerated in the financial markets.

#72 The trap | Realties.ca on 10.08.15 at 9:36 pm

[…] Source: http://www.greaterfool.ca/2015/10/08/the-trap-3/ […]

#73 Nora Lenderby on 10.08.15 at 9:37 pm

#156 saskatoon on 10.08.15 at 1:01 pm
garth, why do you publish some racist comments, but delete others?

Am I right in thinking you’re a humourless honky gentleman, saskatoon, old chum? (Humour isn’t rational.)

Then you’ll have missed my wee jest in a riposte to Mr. CHERRYBLOSSOM (he of the the Love That Dares to Shout Its Name) that the first people of Canada are aboriginals and the rest of us are just come-from-aways, freebooters, remittance men, gold diggers, opportunists, refugees, economic migrants, plus assorted military and government officials here because we did something bad in Blighty. And of course, their offspring, who constitute the “old stock”.

Although I notice your trolling has been getting a bit behind lately – you are back in school and the homework’s been piling up – you still haven’t given us a look at your treatise on What I Think About The World and How We Will Get There.

I am quite looking forward to it. Perhaps you can start by just giving us the references. You should have completed all your reading by now.

#74 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 9:41 pm

#65 broader mind on 10.08.15 at 9:25 pm
#25 Smokie your losing your touch.CAD will be rising against USD. Oil rising like a tsunami.As for BRA,the’re for wearing by women and fat men,certainly not for signing.
…..

Did you not catch my post from a few days ago where I said I’ve taken Half my profit from Usdcad and rotated to crude….

Pay attention between the fits of my insanity.

#75 DON on 10.08.15 at 9:47 pm

I thought only Rock Stars would sign BRAs.

Why would anyone sign this?

Thanks for the realtor negotiation strategy Garth.

#76 Trojan House on 10.08.15 at 9:48 pm

As a FORMER agent in the province of Ontario, having quit because the business is a racket, your take on the BRA is not wrong but it is completely unfair!

One of the reasons I quit (among tons of others) is the fact that BUYERS will screw you. They will waste your time, your gas and your efforts to find them a home. They will call you at all hours of the day. They will want to see a house on Christmas Eve. If you are “working” with a buyer who wants to buy in the country, you will drive all over the countryside for perhaps weeks, maybe months on end. You may even put an offer or two or three on properties on their behalf only to have them cancel the deal because the inspection wasn’t “perfect.” Quick story – one of my clients “bought” three homes only to cancel the deals and then finally settled on a fourth home about 6 months later and guess what – they bought it privately. My BRA had expired, even the holdover, and I didn’t get a dime in commission. That’s fine, it happens.

My point is the BRA is there to protect the agent from dickhead buyers. So when you say “don’t ever sign a BRA” I call BS. If you are not serious about buying a home – don’t sign a BRA and go ahead and waste people’s time (including homeowners that have to leave their home for a showing) looking at homes you have no intention of ever buying but only want decor ideas.

But if you are serious about buying a home, sign a BRA and make that agent work their ass off to find you a home and represent your best interests (don’t ever put in an offer in through the listing agent). However, get the buyer agent to explain to you in clear, layman terms what the BRA means so you understand what you are getting into. Explain that if they want to work for you and earn their commission, then they have to explain every term. Unfortunately, too many agents do gloss this over and that’s when problems occur.

In Karen’s case, the listing agent committed fraud by completing the deal and signing a BRA by backdating it. As soon as Karen disclosed that she had a BRA with another agent, the listing agent should have stopped right away and told Karen he was sorry he couldn’t do anything. In Ontario, what he did was clearly against the RECO Code of Ethics and his brokerage would have to pay the commission to the other agent.

Your take is unfair because it paints all agents as horrible when clearly the case is, from my experience, that BOTH agents and BUYERS can be dickheads. And in some cases, buyers can be worse.

#77 Nora Lenderby on 10.08.15 at 9:48 pm

#172 Nagraj on 10.08.15 at 3:12 pm
Hey Gartho! How you feel about fox hunting?

Another diverting emission from Mr. N.

I feel sure that everyone agrees foxes should be allowed to hunt.

Although I once had a fox in my hen house. My fault for not making it more secure, sodding blood bath, and the rest of the hens were totally traumatized for minutes (not a bright species, yer domestic hen).

I am sure the little foxes were very happy with their chicken dinners.

#78 45north on 10.08.15 at 9:50 pm

John Doe: Well, maybe they should learn how bad it was for the Americans in the GFC when their house lost 1/3 of its value. The same is about to happen in Canada.

In the US, there were enormous losses in the years 2006-2008.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/01/23/business/case-shiller-slider.html?ref=business&_r=0

In the US, the losses were caused by the run up in debt. It reached a certain level and then just collapsed.

In Canada, there has been a bigger run up in debt. Documented on this blog. It will collapse when government no longer supports it. Government can always push it higher by making loans easier but that stops when the Government itself is threatened.

All three political parties are committed to higher house prices. They are also committed to casting the blame onto the ruling party in case the housing market collapses.

You’d have to be God to say when that will happen.

#79 Mark on 10.08.15 at 9:52 pm

“Funny eh – 1992-93 was the height of Jays success and also pretty much the depths of the last real estate meltdown.”

Not really. The bubble collapse was only a two or three years post-peak in 1992-1993, and Toronto was still experiencing what it is today — falling overall prices, but the sales mix masking such. The real flush didn’t occur until 1994-1995 or so, where builders were liquidating unfinished houses in the 905 in some pretty significant numbers. My family actually picked one up, and did quite well on it.

Of course, the stock market, particularly the banks, Bombardier, and Nortel, solidly trounced housing off the 1995-1996 bottom, and continued to outperform until the Nortel collapse.

#80 Nora Lenderby on 10.08.15 at 9:54 pm

On the subject of Karen and her BRA problem, isn’t the second agent back-dating a document with this sort of intent committing fraud?

Subject to proving it in court, I suppose.

#81 conan on 10.08.15 at 9:59 pm

Got to be careful when you work with bras as they tend to be constraining. Sometimes there is more then meets the eye.
You have to read the mechanism of the bra as there is always a hook of some kind.

Isn’t it past your bedtime? — Garth

#82 D on 10.08.15 at 10:04 pm

Hey Smokie, this one for you.

Cruz destroys Sierra Club President Aaron Mair on Climate Change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl9-tY1oZNw

#83 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 10:10 pm

DELETED

#84 Washed Up Lawyer on 10.08.15 at 10:14 pm

Karen has nothing to worry about in a suit against her on the terms of the BRA.

There are about 21 defences to a suit on that contract.

I cannot reveal them all, as my trade secrets are worth money.

Top 3:

1. contra preferendum;

2. non est factum; and

3. no blood from a stone.

Hell, throw in “non auritor actio”.

Might be a nonsuit.

Modest fee = $75,000.

#85 Sheane Wallace on 10.08.15 at 10:16 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/could-the-loonie-fall-to-dollar050-versus-the-dollar/ar-AAffdc2

#86 Washed Up Lawyer on 10.08.15 at 10:21 pm

Not being Latin, my spelling is hopeless. Fee reduced to $65,000.

#87 45north on 10.08.15 at 10:31 pm

Chicago Real Estate: Another factor in the backlog, is that “a lot of our sellers are baby boomers who bought in the ’80s or ’90s, built up a lot of equity in their homes and are ready to cash it in.”

When the market doesn’t deliver a buyer who’s willing to pay the price they want, “they’re not taking it. They’ll wait and see if they can get their number.”

Her prediction: They won’t.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/#dcEDzrAHW4MWj6Bw.99

Michael Shedlock says This is precisely what happens when everyone heads for the exit door at the same time.

he also says the Mayor ( Emanuel ) makes the situation worse by raising taxes.

#88 Ralph Cramdown on 10.08.15 at 10:33 pm

#73 Trojan House — “That’s fine, it happens. My point is the BRA is there to protect the agent from dickhead buyers.”

As Bill Clinton said, I feel your pain. But there’s a fundamental problem in how your services are bought and sold. No buyer’s agent advertises “we charge 2.5%, we’re worth every penny and here’s why.” You sell yourselves as free* — where the asterisk means a shitty surprise for your clientele. Buyer clients didn’t make up your revenue model, so don’t blame them for its shortcomings.

#89 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.08.15 at 10:34 pm

Smoking Man the universe is stil expanding perhaps not at an exponential rate as millennia past but never the less it is expanding. Yoour mind is expanding by working with the likes of an MIT grad. Your portfolio is expanding as a result of your contrarian investing. Alass poor old Smoking Man your favorite penis is shrinking due to hag ism. Dump the wifee poo in the harbor and move on!

#90 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.08.15 at 10:42 pm

Karen is going going to court whether she likes it or not thanks to the realtors fighting over $$.
As for the bank of Mom I have talked to quite a few aquaintences and they are quite happy to finance thier children free of charge. A lot of people out age would rather give thier children money to pump into a domicile while they are alive having the satisfaction that they at least know thier litter is safe under a big sturdy canopy. I can’t blame some of the parents who feel that way. What are you really going to do if you’ve socked some serious cash into investments.

#91 Bottoms_Up on 10.08.15 at 10:42 pm

Current understanding of the universe. It’s flat, galaxies are accelerating away from each other, it was created from nothing, and in 100 billion years newly evolved humans will think the galaxy is the universe as they will not be able to observe anything else as other galaxies will be too far away.
http://youtu.be/7ImvlS8PLIo

#92 Tony on 10.08.15 at 10:47 pm

Re: #4 Joeyjojo on 10.08.15 at 6:11 pm

The companies can report anything they want but it was the first time in about six years that their share price went up before the earnings announcement (weeks before). I went totally by that.

#93 A roving we will go on 10.08.15 at 10:47 pm

Dippers tanking, anybody but harpo on the march – PMO JT.

#94 entropic entity on 10.08.15 at 10:49 pm

“an historic”

This bugs me. The “h” is pronounced, so it should be written “a historic.” One wouldn’t write “an history book.”

#95 Tony on 10.08.15 at 10:52 pm

Re: #8 rainclouds on 10.08.15 at 6:24 pm

That might spell the end for AGF Management.

#96 The Globe on 10.08.15 at 10:53 pm

ABC = Liberals.

Spread the word.

#97 The Globe on 10.08.15 at 11:02 pm

nice delete…

When you running again?

If you want to dump on foreigners and immigrants, go play on the Globe or HuffPost sites. They love bigots. — Garth

#98 Godth on 10.08.15 at 11:02 pm

#81 Bottoms_Up on 10.08.15 at 10:42 pm
“it was created from nothing”

“Give us one free miracle and we’ll explain the rest”.

Give us a break. Our puny, dualistic, symbolic language derived ape brains can’t described much of anything accurately let alone the universe and it’s origins.

Subject – Object non-duality has been an amusement for millenia, Quantum physics struck upon this “damn mysticism” again. The Objectivists weren’t pleased.

Nobody knows, so do us a favour – breath in, breath out and be content. The machine metaphor is well passed it’s pull date too.

#99 Millmech on 10.08.15 at 11:05 pm

#3
Not too bitter!

#100 Duncan herbert on 10.08.15 at 11:09 pm

Thanks Garth for the revelation. I’m getting tired of learning the truths about so much about the Real estate racket. What makes some schmoe who I happened to ask a few questions of , figure that he has the right to glean thousands off of some month in the future when I put a bid on another house. I don’t even know this persons name. He wouldn’t even know me from Adam either , if he didn’t scan the land titles looking for activity of names cross referenced from names of people he had the slightest connection with in the past. These guys are ambulance chasers at their best.

#101 Tony on 10.08.15 at 11:11 pm

Re: #66 Admirer on 10.08.15 at 9:26 pm

It’s gone and it’ll be the NDP with the minority (or majority) government not the Liberals.

#102 omg the original on 10.08.15 at 11:11 pm

They were shaped by the GFC, watched their folks being hosed with high-MER mutual funds sold by commission-mad salesguys and now simply mistrust financial markets. Besides, houses always go up. It says so on Twitter.
——————-

The above is certainly true for Canuck Millennials.

But its a different story in the US. Millions of American Millennials watched as their parents’ entire life savings went kaput during the housing melt down.

That is why, even thought the US is outperforming Canada in so many ways (economic growth, employment, real jobs as opposed to taxpayer funded jobs, a rebuilding of the economy around private sector info/tech/bio industries) the US housing market is showing muted price appreciation in most markets.

I do not think the grotesque Canadian housing bubble will explode in a Super Nova manner – it will just hobble our economy for the next couple of decades as we revert to the mean.

#103 S.Bby on 10.08.15 at 11:12 pm

#73 Trojan House
Realtors were doing just fine and selling houses long before BRAs came along. If you can’t determine a serious buyer from a looky-loo then perhaps you are best suited for another line of work. Calling your client’s “dickheads” says a lot about your attitude.

#104 Tony on 10.08.15 at 11:19 pm

Re: #71 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 9:41 pm

Crude short term (less than 3 months) could take a run at 60 dollars a barrel U.S but longer term should make new lows probably below 30 dollars U.S. a barrel after the U.S. election in November next year.

#105 eddy on 10.08.15 at 11:20 pm

#98
“It’s gone and it’ll be the NDP with the minority (or majority) government not the Liberals.”
…………………
You don’t read the news or polls do you Tony? The NDP are done.

#106 Trojan House on 10.08.15 at 11:22 pm

#85 Ralph Cramdown on 10.08.15 at 10:33 pm

Actually, buyer clients did make up my revenue model for a period of time – I worked in a team for another agent as their “buyer agent” specifically working with buyers.

That’s why I said to have them explain the BRA very carefully and in detail. The BRA specifically states that the commission charged would be in the event of non-payment from the seller or if the buyer does exactly what Karen did – as Garth pointed out by directly quoting the agreement if it is the buyer’s “default or neglect.”

Yes, sometimes a seller will try not to pay the commission, for whatever reason, but that seller will find themselves in court and will have to pay it eventually.

I always explained to my clients why they would have to pay that commission. In fact, a lot of the times, I would write $1 in that line (perhaps that’s the other reason I’m not in the business).

#107 conan on 10.08.15 at 11:23 pm

Re: #8 rainclouds on 10.08.15 at 6:24 pm

The insurance industry has been disclosing these fees for a while. Fortunately there is an option where the client can waive all redemption fees and the agent/broker gets a charge back if the money is moved within 3 years. This seems like the fairest way to do it and works well IMHO.

#108 Trojan House on 10.08.15 at 11:25 pm

#85 Ralph Cramdown on 10.08.15 at 10:33 pm

Not only that, but it comes under contract law and fiduciary duty that if you start to provide advice to someone on the purchase of real property, then a contract can be created simply by providing this advice. So regardless of whether you signed a BRA or not, you may still be liable to pay the agent a commission.

Ask any lawyer, they will tell you this.

#109 Trojan House on 10.08.15 at 11:33 pm

#100 S.Bby on 10.08.15 at 11:12 pm

If you understood my post, you would have read that I’m not in the business any more. Was sick of the hours and of the people.

I suppose you’re right though, but the government got involved, probably for a reason, and you know what happens when government gets involved in anything!

Garth uses the term “house horny” all the time and he couldn’t be more correct. But house horny turns people to a-hole zombies!

#110 Nagraj on 10.08.15 at 11:41 pm

#74 NORA LENDERBY

“Take us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.” (Song of Solomon 2:15)

Then there’s the 1939 Lillian Hellman play “The Little Foxes” made into one of Hollywood’s finest adaptations, directed by Wyler, with Bette Davis as Regina Giddens.
(Bankhead had played that part on Broadway. Elizabeth Taylor flopped horribly in an attempted reprise.)

[The 1945 film “Our Vines Have Tender Grapes” with Margaret O’Brien – a Dalton Trumbo screenplay – is much neglected; I think it rivals the 1940 film “Our Town”. Which play I saw at Stratford many years ago – an unforgettable production.]

“The Little Foxes” is about the most destructive sort of money-grubbing, so my mentioning it on this real estate blog is not wholly out of place.

Fox as psychopomp . . . maybe, Nora, you were never meant to keep chickens.

#111 Edward on 10.08.15 at 11:50 pm

Justin Trudeau is Wallet Man.

“The fiscal plan released recently by the Liberals is filled with numbers that carry all the weight of a steamed bun. It doesn’t take much analysis to demonstrate the party couldn’t possibly keep all the promises it’s made, unless it was willing to borrow far beyond the $10-billion annual limit it set itself.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kelly-mcparland-justin-trudeau-emerges-as-wallet-man-always-willing-to-pick-up-a-tab

#112 omg the original on 10.08.15 at 11:50 pm

pale is bad on 10.08.15 at 8:55 pm
You said “penurious and pale”. In otherwords poor and white.
—————
Seriously life is so much easier if you are not so easily offended.

Most reasonable people would read “pale imitation” as referring to somebody that is sickly.

Opps – my apologies – I suppose that is offensive to the ill.

#113 lala on 10.08.15 at 11:55 pm

Went to CIBC today:

Teller: “Sir lala, would you like to donate, for sick kids”
Lala: ” Sure, if CIBC match the same”
Teller: ” can’t do that, sorry”
Lala: “why not, it’s for sick kids”

Amateurs, financial advisers hide when I go to my branch, they don’t know how to answer my questions, incompetents. Listen to lala, bank is the last place where you ask for financial advice.

#114 Vundo on 10.09.15 at 12:34 am

I would say that it’s not just the GFC, but the 2000’s and early 2010’s in general. If you are a millenial in Vancouver you may have seen your parents marvel at how much the house has gone up compared to anything else. If you are a millenial in many parts of Alberta you might have disabled/elderly neighbours who felt the crunch when vacancy rates were low and anyone who owned a shack could charge exorbitant rent and still have a lineup of people outside clamouring to sign a lease. Scary to think that could be you, right? These things make house ownership seem like security and anything else seem like gambling. Without an education in the realities of investing and RE ownership there are other regional events than the GFC that can reinforce the common myths.

#115 Daisie Mae vs Smokin Man on 10.09.15 at 12:40 am

Daisie Mae: you said that SM was going to cost the health care system (and taxpayers) lots of money from dying from smoking. What a silly argument when you think about it. Though many believe it.

It would be true except for one significant fact: WE ALL DIE EVENTUALLY. About 50% of our costs to the health care system occur in our last six months of life (on average). For each of us. You too.

If SM (and I) die early in our ’50s or ’60s from too much drinking and smoking, we have saved society tons of money. We die when we are still contributing through our taxes, etc. BEFORE we have become takers from CPP, OAS, GIS, long-term care facilities, and so on. Nevermind the huge amount of taxes we have paid on all that booze and smokes. We are a net benefit to society financially.

The longer you live, the more of a burden on society you become. So give SM a break. He’s saving you money.

#116 Freedom First on 10.09.15 at 2:23 am

#73 Trojan House

For myself, I have never had a problem with RE agents, buyers, or sellers of properties I have dealt on. Mind you, I have only bought in ice cold markets, and only sold in hot markets. I know what people are like when it comes to money, so, for myself, I always like to have everyone else bent over. If you know what I mean. It’s business. Be fair with everyone, including yourself. People have always been happy selling to me, and always been happy buying from me. But no one is ever happier than me. Trust me. Today, I rent. I am a #’s man. Plus, I am single, so do not have to contend with someone trying to think for me. I am blessed. And grateful too.

#117 Sean on 10.09.15 at 7:23 am

This topic kind of makes my blood boil…

First of all, the courts should throw this kind of sh!t out… not b/c there isn’t an agreement in place, but b/c it is a flagrant abuse of the relationship. Some will cry “oh, buyer beware”… but that too is BS. The realtor has (or should have) a fiduciary duty to you.

Secondly, some enterprising youngster should put the new global sharing economy to work on this one… create “realtorscum.ca” as a public venue for all the scummy, sleazy practices that go on. If we can’t protect consumers, maybe we can at least empower them.

#118 Ralph Cramdown on 10.09.15 at 7:36 am

#103 Trojan House — “The BRA specifically states that the commission charged would be in the event of non-payment from the seller […]”

Except it isn’t the seller who pays the buyer agent’s commission — it’s the seller’s broker. That’s what MLS is fundamentally all about: A promise by the listing broker to pay a cooperating broker a specified commission. As far as I know, there’s no clause stating “unless the seller doesn’t pay us.” The BRA asks the buyer to insure his broker against getting screwed over by the seller’s broker. Who is in the better position to judge whether the listing broker is going to meet his promises?

“Not only that, but it comes under contract law and fiduciary duty that if you start to provide advice to someone on the purchase of real property, then a contract can be created simply by providing this advice. So regardless of whether you signed a BRA or not, you may still be liable to pay the agent a commission.”

The law provides for people to collect their customary fees in the event of an emergency where a contract cannot be made (e.g. a doctor tending to an unconscious stranger). Unless you’re going to call buying real estate an emergency, the law does not provide for you. This is not to say that some hick judge somewhere didn’t once decide in a real estate agent’s favour absent a contract, but I wouldn’t rely on that as precedent if I were you.

#119 Jimbo in Jail on 10.09.15 at 7:52 am

Bad news for all the Lieberals and Dippers on this blog:

Thanks to the Supreme Court, today marks the start of the voting season for inmates in federal penitentiaries.

And since federal inmates are mostly made up of former Harper cabinet ministers, senators and Conservative Party of Canada insiders….

You are all SCREWED, commies!!!!

Nothing much else to do, so our participation rate puts you all to shame, millennials!

Four more years of Steve!

FOUR MORE YEARS!

FOUR MORE YEARS!

#120 TurnerNation on 10.09.15 at 7:52 am

*This is why Torontonians ‘invest’ in houses.

A 1.5 minute video of edited interviews with joe/jane average and their views on the oh-so-scary stock market.

From new Aequitas stock exchange (the same group – Jos and co. – who ran Alpha exchange, and there failed to garner one listed company).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdMSI_n72jc

scary.

#121 Millenial on 10.09.15 at 8:28 am

Garth,

You should have had a bullet regarding perceptions of central banking interventions in the economy. I think the distortive effect of extreme interest rates and quantitative easing policies are easier to appreciate on financial instrument valuations (stocks, bonds) than on housing prices. However, you and I both know the distortive effects are the same on both financial instruments and real estate.

Anyway, FOMC minutes were released yesterday. As usual, it`s all crap. Let me give you an example:
-Thirteen of 17 Fed officials indicated in projections released after the meeting that they expected interest rates to move this year. Ms. Yellen emphasized in a speech after the meeting that she was among this group. (OMG, yay!, we`re on track, economy is doing awesome!)
-BUT, they have a firm target of 2% inflation (their measure has run below 2% for 40 consecutive months) in order to raise rates, HOWEVER Fed staffers estimated inflation wouldn’t hit the 2% goal even by the end of 2018.

You can listen to speeches and read FOMC minutes and draw whatever conclusion you want about things, it`s all a joke. Anybody with half a brain knows how this is going to play out.

#122 cropgrower on 10.09.15 at 8:35 am

…is it just me, or does everyone throw up in their mouth a little bit, after a “freedom first” post…..

#123 tkid on 10.09.15 at 8:50 am

Cropgrower, it’s just you. Freedom First is honest and straightforward about his lifestyle, and I live my own life the same way. Not everyone wants to get married or have children or a huge amount of debt.

#124 };-) aka Devil's Advocate on 10.09.15 at 8:53 am

“Your average person really is quite stupid, and half of them are dumber than that” George Carlin.

#125 Daisy Mae on 10.09.15 at 9:00 am

#20: “I thought a contract had to have mutual benefit (consideration) to both parties to be enforceable. How does a BRA benefit the buyer? It’s all one sided for the agent.”

**************

Yes. WHY would a buyer ever entertain the notion of putting themselves in such a vulnerable position? Boggles the mind…

#126 Smoking Man on 10.09.15 at 9:05 am

Unemployment rate up to 7.1%

BOC rate cut 100% going to happen.

#127 Daisy Mae on 10.09.15 at 9:10 am

#57: “You said “penurious and pale”. In otherwords poor and white.”

******************

Give it a rest. You have a serious problem.

#128 Bytor the Snow Dog on 10.09.15 at 9:26 am

@Smoking Man

Ah, yes, most people are too afraid to peel too many layers off the onion as what they find will make them cry.

#129 Nora Lenderby on 10.09.15 at 9:28 am

#119 cropgrower on 10.09.15 at 8:35 am
…is it just me, or does everyone throw up in their mouth a little bit, after a “freedom first” post…..

You are not obligated to read it, dear. If you are that sensitive, I’d stay away if I were you.

No-one has a right not to be offended, including me :-)

#130 Nora Lenderby on 10.09.15 at 9:32 am

#107 Nagraj on 10.08.15 at 11:41 pm
“Take us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.” (Song of Solomon 2:15)

Ah, Mr. N. How did you know that I just spent 8 hours picking grapes? And 15 hours preparing the wine…we’ll get maybe 50 litres, which is probably poor economy (like the chickens were).

(The grapes are high enough that the foxes can’t get to them, over the back deck.)

#131 TheLaughingCON on 10.09.15 at 9:57 am

Santa comes earlier for Russia:

Große Rolle rückwärts: EU will normale Beziehungen zu Russland

http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2015/10/08/grosse-rolle-rueckwaerts-eu-will-normale-beziehungen-zu-russland/

“Large roll backwards : EU wants normal relations with Russia”

“The EU is apparently very impressed with Vladimir Putin’s actions in Syria : EU President Jean-Claude Juncker says suddenly that EU should not be dictated by the United States their relationship with Russia . He called for a normalization of relations – and thus indirectly an end to the sanctions .”

https://youtu.be/xi7M_P2ldsQ?t=1m15s

#132 10 Days to an NDP Government! on 10.09.15 at 9:59 am

Absolutely horrific jobs numbers out. Full time positions being wiped out, and Harperland is all about contingent part-time employment only.

(Except if you are a Syrian refugee of course – you just won’t get in, the PMO says so!)

Harper is an economic know-nothing fraud.

GAME CHANGER.

#133 Daisy Mae on 10.09.15 at 10:16 am

#112: “It would be true except for one significant fact: WE ALL DIE EVENTUALLY.”

*****************

My, my, how profound!

#134 Ole Doberman on 10.09.15 at 10:44 am

Gartho I’m hearing more and more about a WW3 breaking out – how would this affect real estate and the stock market? Would the bull still be on stocks?

#135 MF on 10.09.15 at 10:52 am

#114 Sean on 10.09.15 at 7:23 am

“Secondly, some enterprising youngster should put the new global sharing economy to work on this one… create “realtorscum.ca” as a public venue for all the scummy, sleazy practices that go on. If we can’t protect consumers, maybe we can at least empower them.”

I think we would like too, but a lot of us can’t. The amount of my friends that work as GTA RE agents is astounding. Probably around 40% and this does not including those in mortgages, insurance, tradesmen that build condos etc.

I’m careful when I argue with them because I’m always surrounded, similar to the rest of us here and their friends I imagine.

Our economy really is a condo economy and it is completely unsustainable.

It’s not just about house prices. All these people depend on RE in some form. When this thing blows, it’s going to be real messy. I wonder if the FIRE sector so big in 1989? Doubtful, considering we probably had more manufacturing in Ontario at the time.

MF

#136 MF on 10.09.15 at 11:05 am

#129 10 Days to an NDP Government! on 10.09.15 at 9:59 am

You are aware that OIL is an international commodity right? Does the PM control oil prices? Maybe in the delusional NDP handbook where money grows on trees and everyone is a civil servant.

If we have an NDP government like you say, we will have NO jobs when every business gets up and leaves.

MF

#137 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.09.15 at 11:13 am

#123 Smoking Man on 10.09.15 at 9:05 am

Unemployment rate up to 7.1%

BOC rate cut 100% going to happen
___________________________________________
All this will do is fan the flames of Canada’s red-hot housing market. Burn baby burn!
Hope you are enjoying Boston Smoking Man its not a bad town to be stuck in. Too bad for you all of their Casinos are Native run. Do yourself a favor though and go and see a Patriots game. Great football team. Have a great long weekend, or not! Your in the states now so have to wait until November.

#138 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.09.15 at 11:17 am

#129 10 Days to an NDP Government! on 10.09.15 at 9:59 am
Absolutely horrific jobs numbers out. Full time positions being wiped out, and Harperland is all about contingent part-time employment only.
(Except if you are a Syrian refugee of course – you just won’t get in, the PMO says so!)
Harper is an economic know-nothing fraud.
GAME CHANGER.
___________________________________________
Should I get the bomb shelter ready? If I have stocked enough food it will last up to four years, yep that should be about enough. When we finally come out to the post apocalyptic landscape we will probably be over run with the new Chinese owners of everything.

#139 chapter 9 on 10.09.15 at 11:26 am

#108 Edward
Justin Trudeau is Wallet Man

Like father like son!! Before Juniors communist loving father was elected Canada, USA, Sweden were the three most prosperous, richest countries on the planet. Pierre changed the financial landscape in this country to nearly third world status by overspending every year. Jean Chretein had to “clean up the mess” after his spending spree by cutting transfer payments to the provinces which in turn had an effect on wait times for health care. Need a hip replaced, to bad, your on the wait list for 6 more months.
I see Junior is still sniffling about the Duffy scandal, what a joke! His old man ordered the RCMP to illegally burn down barns in Quebec of separatists and when confronted about this crime, “Maybe I should make this practice legal”.
Vote for change, cause that’s all your going to have in your pocket is change!!!

We can deal with issues, but let’s try to keep the character assassination out of it. — Garth

#140 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.09.15 at 11:29 am

#17 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 6:45 pm
This old dude, beauty of man started same day as me in this new gig. He has a PhD in math and Physics from MIT. One of his pals did all the work and his boss just got the Nobel Peace prize with his discovery of mass in neutrinos. He had some imput too.
Now we have a training manual two inches thick. He goes page by page and is advancing.
I took one look at the manual and said nope. I just started messing with the software. Trial and Error.
We are both at about the same spot. But we have two distinctive learning styles. But I discovered some gaps in it that are not in the manual. So I’m a bit ahead..
I totally deserve my PhD in Herdonomics. I can keep up with the best of the best.
What I get a kick out off, I’m helping him with VBA and Sql.
At lunch, I gave my argument on universal shrinkage.
In like five minutes he had and equation on the white board.
He said both scenarios are valid arguments. Could be either or. In fact the shrinkage scenario makes more logical sense, he’s going to work on it. Has some issues with red shift what ever that means.
He’s had some health problems, I said if you Mathifide this, take all the credit, I’m already famous.
Applause anyone.
Dr Smoking Man
PhD Herdonomics
___________________________________________
Doctor Smoking Man are you talking about Art? Art and I attended Caltech back in the late 60’s. If you are talking about Arthur McDonald he is a certified genius! He heads up the Dept of Physics, Engineering Physics and Astronomy at Queens. Small world!

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/astrophysics/nobel-awarded-for-discovery-of-neutrino-mass

#141 Ralph Cramdown on 10.09.15 at 11:35 am

#133 MF — “Does the PM control oil prices?”

To the extent that his stubbornness and rude behaviour towards Obama and the provincial premiers has resulted in no pipelines being built to tidewater? Which translates to most Western Canadian oil being sold into the glutted central US, meaning we get a discount to WTI instead of a discount to Brent. I think we can lay that at the PM’s feet.

#142 Doug in London on 10.09.15 at 11:36 am

@10 Days to an NDP Government, post #129:
What’s wrong with part time employment? I would much prefer working part time, like 3 days a week, to the slavery of 5 days a week.

#143 The Other Chris on 10.09.15 at 11:38 am

Something is weird with Stats Canada’s job data. How could 51,000 jobs be lost in educational services in September, mainly in Ontario and Quebec? If there had been public sector education job losses of that magnitude, it would be all over the news.

#144 Marco on 10.09.15 at 11:44 am

Thanks Garth.

@MF

“If we have an NDP government like you say, we will have NO jobs when every business gets up and leaves.”

Not an NDP’r but that TPP deal looks shabby, from what I’ve read so far.
We will lose manufacturing jobs to lower wage countries like Vietnam, whose auto industry is booming.
Subsidizing the farmers and auto makers with taxpayer dollars, so we can pad Corporate pockets, no thanks.
Not supporting a trade agreement where we lose jobs and pay subsidy taxes.

Cheers

#145 Ralph Cramdown on 10.09.15 at 12:05 pm

#136 chapter 9 — “Before Juniors communist loving father was elected Canada, USA, Sweden were the three most prosperous, richest countries on the planet. Pierre changed the financial landscape in this country to nearly third world status by overspending every year.”

– In 1968, Canada was fourth in GDP per capita, behind the United States, Kuwait and Sweden.
– In 1984, at the end of Trudeau’s reign, it was fifth, behind the U.A.E., Quatar, the US, Switzerland and Norway.
– In 1993, at the end of Mulroney’s tenure, we’d slipped to 15th.
– In 2003, at the end of Chretien’s tenure, we were 19th
– 2006, Paul Martin, 16th
– 2015, at the end of Stephen Harper’s imperium, 15th

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

In terms of purchasing power parity, we’ve gone from 19th in 2006 to 22nd in 2015 (estimate).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

You can try blaming Trudeau for the 1970s, but things were crappy all over, unless you were pumping oil. Ask the Americans, or the British.

#146 Breaking News... on 10.09.15 at 12:07 pm

FED minutes imply no hike in 2015 !

Our Loonie going rocketing higher…biggest uptrend in years.

The Fed implies no such thing. The loonie is rising with commodities. — Garth

#147 pinstripe on 10.09.15 at 12:23 pm

harpo did an excellent job implementing the CPC policies by pitting one group against another. Government vs Private. The private want ALL of the subsidies but complain at all the social programs in government.

The millillenums are screwed and will get more screwed if they do not vote ABC in this election.

BOC interest rates will be trending downward.

US economy is politically driven and interest rates will not go up for a long time.

in Canada, anyone renting has lost a lot of money to date and will lose more moving forward.

On the west coast, the bidding wars are picking up steam. foreign money is dominating the market.

On the east coast, non maritimers own most of the prime realestate.

#148 TheLaughingCON on 10.09.15 at 12:46 pm

Re #140 The Other Chris
“Something is weird with Stats Canada’s job data. How could 51,000 jobs be lost in educational services in September, mainly in Ontario and Quebec? If there had been public sector education job losses of that magnitude, it would be all over the news.”
=====================

It is a spin to scare the teachers to vote for the Liberal party.

Despite what one can lead the sheeple to believe, people usually vote FOR what is for them personally.

And the teachers, like any other very well paid people in Canada may vote federally for the party providing the best goods for the well-to-do people. (TFSA, income splitting etc)

But if you do scare them that they may lose their jobs they may vote differently

Real Year over Year numbers
(from Cansim table 282-0011):

Employees in Educational Services (public sector only) in Ontario:
Sep. 2014 – 428,000
Sep. 2015 – 421,100 (loss of only 6,900 positions)

Nationwide the “public sector” employees in the Educational services are:
Sep. 2014 – 1,082,600 people
Sep. 2015 – 1,074,400 people (loss of only 8,200 positions)

#149 kommykim on 10.09.15 at 1:00 pm

RE: #139 Doug in London on 10.09.15 at 11:36 am
@10 Days to an NDP Government, post #129:
What’s wrong with part time employment? I would much prefer working part time, like 3 days a week, to the slavery of 5 days a week.

I’m sure most people would like that too, if they didn’t lose vacation time, benefits, and have a reduced income.

#150 James on 10.09.15 at 1:16 pm

Smoking Man,

For the record – disagree on the CAD rate cut prediction. Been trading USD/CAD for over 10 years and did so professionally for one of the largest Canadian banks. USD/CAD is way still way over valued – we are headed to 1.25ish in a hurry with the strong potential for a correction to the 1.20-1.23 range. Will reassess from there, but no way you should go long right now. If you buy 100 lots you’re going to be DOWN 400k in the next few weeks when we’re trading 1.25! I am unloading all the USD I can right now on every bounce.

#151 the game is rigged on 10.09.15 at 1:31 pm

@marco.
I agree.
The NDP looks like they actually care about citizens.
Protectionism and nationalism are good for people, thats why they are eliminated everywhere
Problem is, even the offical opposition has a second name-
“her majesty’s loyal opposition” = loyalty is to the existing regime
Globalism or NWO is in fact British Imperialism, which is us.
Canada is not a country

#152 Victor V on 10.09.15 at 1:43 pm

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/federal-official-says-rate-hike-either-october-december-133720153.html

NEW YORK, N.Y. – A voting member of the Federal Reserve’s policy committee said Friday that he still thinks an interest-rate increase will be appropriate by year’s end. But he acknowledged that the outlook for the economy appears cloudier than it did a few weeks ago.

Dennis Lockhart, president of the Fed’s Atlanta regional bank, noted that the most recent economic figures have sent mixed signals, with higher risks than he had earlier forecast. Notably, the government said last week that employers cut back sharply on hiring in September and added fewer jobs in July and August than previously thought.

“While I have not changed my basic outlook, very recent data have not provided much confirmation that my narrative still holds,” Lockhart said. “I perceive a touch more downside risk today than I saw some weeks ago.”

#153 Jakethesnake on 10.09.15 at 2:01 pm

#25 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 7:15 pm

So smokey, you’re thinking the boc is going to pull down the pants of the overnight rate and cause the CAD to drop 3 cents to about 74 cents?

I can get behind that, given jobs and lackluster gdp. Another 400k feather in my cap. Trade, peasants….it’s the only manly thing you’ll do this year. It’s not about the money, it’s about the self esteem.

#154 Daisy Mae on 10.09.15 at 2:12 pm

WIKIPEDIA: The Canadian federal elections uses first-past-the-post voting which allows a party with minority support among population win the majority of the seats in the parliament.

The progressive vote splits between progressive federal parties NDP, Liberals and Greens which allows the Conservatives to win a disproportional number of seats in the parliament compared to their popular support.

This results in Conservative candidates winning seats in some ridings with as low as 30% of the vote in the riding.

*****************

Why aren’t Canadians doing something about this? Why has it ever been allowed?

#155 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.09.15 at 2:29 pm

#136 chapter 9 on 10.09.15 at 11:26 am
#108 Edward
Justin Trudeau is Wallet Man

Like father like son!! Before Juniors communist loving father was elected Canada, USA, Sweden were the three most prosperous, richest countries on the planet. Pierre changed the financial landscape in this country to nearly third world status by overspending every year. Jean Chretein had to “clean up the mess” after his spending spree by cutting transfer payments to the provinces which in turn had an effect on wait times for health care. Need a hip replaced, to bad, your on the wait list for 6 more months.
I see Junior is still sniffling about the Duffy scandal, what a joke! His old man ordered the RCMP to illegally burn down barns in Quebec of separatists and when confronted about this crime, “Maybe I should make this practice legal”.
Vote for change, cause that’s all your going to have in your pocket is change!!!

We can deal with issues, but let’s try to keep the character assassination out of it. — Garth
_____________________________________________
I don’t think we have to worry about character assassinations on this one! Jr is not his fathers son, oh hell he is! Well lets hope hes not a pinko commie! Communism never works and never will. I want to hold onto my possessions you bastards, I earned them not you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suVB3YGIUk0

#156 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.09.15 at 2:33 pm

Man the government we don’t want to elect. If they want to take more then you have to think hard about your vote!
“Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm

#157 Ralph Cramdown on 10.09.15 at 2:39 pm

#131 Ole Doberman — “I’m hearing more and more about a WW3 breaking out – how would this affect real estate and the stock market?”

More crackpottery from the War of the Month Club. If there’s a method to their madness, it’s to distract you from the goings-on at the monkey house. To recap:

– The head zookeeper quit, saying “you can find somebody else to fling feces at for the next year.”
– The assistant zookeeper, widely assumed to be a shoo-in for the top job, demurred, saying “you can take that job and shove it.”
– In a desperate attempt not to look stupid, the monkeys are trying to draft somebody who, until a few weeks ago, was running for Leader of the Free Monkey World. He says he doesn’t want the job.
– Next month, these monkeys need to vote on whether to default on all the monkey debt.
– The month after that, unless they can pass a continuing resolution, the monkey government shuts down.

Feel free to focus on what’s happening in the middle east — it’s less painful to watch.

#158 Ralph Cramdown on 10.09.15 at 2:39 pm

#131 Ole Doberman — “I’m hearing more and more about a WW3 breaking out – how would this affect real estate and the stock market?”

More crackpottery from the War of the Month Club. If there’s a method to their madness, it’s to distract you from the goings-on at the monkey house. To recap:

– The head zookeeper quit, saying “you can find somebody else to fling feces at for the next year.”
– The assistant zookeeper, widely assumed to be a shoo-in for the top job, demurred, saying “you can take that job and shove it.”
– In a desperate attempt not to look stupid, the monkeys are trying to draft somebody who, until a few weeks ago, was running for Leader of the Free Monkey World. He says he doesn’t want the job.
– Next month, these monkeys need to vote on whether to default on all the monkey debt.
– The month after that, unless they can pass a continuing resolution, the monkey government shuts down.

Feel free to focus on what’s happening in the middle east — it’s less painful to watch.

#159 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.09.15 at 2:39 pm

#150 Jakethesnake on 10.09.15 at 2:01 pm

#25 Smoking Man on 10.08.15 at 7:15 pm

So smokey, you’re thinking the boc is going to pull down the pants of the overnight rate and cause the CAD to drop 3 cents to about 74 cents?
I can get behind that, given jobs and lackluster gdp. Another 400k feather in my cap. Trade, peasants….it’s the only manly thing you’ll do this year. It’s not about the money, it’s about the self esteem.
____________________________________________
It may be great for traders but those of us who are employers and manufacturer’s it is hurting. I have had to hold off on $1.8 M in investment machinery due to the huge damage done to the CDN $. It has represented almost a 30% increase in cost of badly needed equipment that is not manufactured in Canada. This is precluding us from an expansion which I might add would actually employ ten more citizens in the Oakville area.

#160 Doug in London on 10.09.15 at 2:40 pm

@kommykim, post #146:
There are many of us in the older demographic (I’m 54) who would be willing to make that sacrifice. We don’t need the money as much as a younger person who is starting out and trying to build up equity. I’ve met people my age, give or take some years, who work part time and LOVE it. They have no desire to work full time.

#161 paul on 10.09.15 at 3:04 pm

The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree!

The other primary legacy of the Trudeau years has been financial. Net federal debt in fiscal 1968, just before Trudeau became Prime Minister, was about $18 billion, or 26 per cent of gross domestic product; by his final year in office, it had ballooned to $206 billion—at 46 percent of GDP, nearly twice as large relative to the economy.

Thanks Wikipedia

The second-largest budget deficit in history belonged to Brian Mulroney. The largest belongs to Stephen Harper. To be fair. I’m not sure condemning someone for his father’s actions is too swift. — Garth

#162 Smoking Man on 10.09.15 at 3:04 pm

#134 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 10.09.15 at 11:13 am
#123 Smoking Man on 10.09.15 at 9:05 am

Unemployment rate up to 7.1%

BOC rate cut 100% going to happen
___________________________________________
All this will do is fan the flames of Canada’s red-hot housing market. Burn baby burn!
Hope you are enjoying Boston Smoking Man its not a bad town to be stuck in. Too bad for you all of their Casinos are Native run. Do yourself a favor though and go and see a Patriots game. Great football team. Have a great long weekend, or not! Your in the states now so have to wait until November.
….

Coming back tonight, negotiated work from home deal, mind you. Lots of travel ahead to many cool cities.

South side Johnnys won’t need to lay anyone off.

#163 jo on 10.09.15 at 3:12 pm

#148 the game is rigged on 10.09.15 at 1:31 pm

@marco.
I agree.
The NDP looks like they actually care about citizens.
Protectionism and nationalism are good for people, thats why they are eliminated everywhere
Problem is, even the offical opposition has a second name-
“her majesty’s loyal opposition” = loyalty is to the existing regime
Globalism or NWO is in fact British Imperialism, which is us.
Canada is not a country
____________________________________

Canada is not a county ?!? What do you mean by this?

#164 jess on 10.09.15 at 3:27 pm

#5 Intuitive Missus
perhaps this article will add some tar and feather

TPP with malaysia??? read their sedition act and how to eliminate your opposition parties
http://www.sarawakreport.org/

https://unmaskthecorrupt.org/#home

The Global Investigative Journalism Network is an association of 118 nonprofit organizations in 54 countries dedicated to investigative reporting
https://twitter.com/gijn

#165 The American on 10.09.15 at 3:33 pm

Tony, so how did that idiotic little prediction of your’s about the U.S. dollar “noticeably slipping” today turn out for you? Yep, not much movement today all around. Damn, you’re just dumb. Really, just dumb. Any other predictions you have so we can all relish in your humiliation? Or, instead, would you prefer to come educated when you start pulling things out of your ass? Just curious.

#166 devore on 10.09.15 at 3:59 pm

#3 MSM-Free Zone

And, the most important reason of all:

• No woman on Plenty-of-Fish nor Match.com would ever date a male renter.

It’s not a problem, because I’m not desperate and don’t have to date gold diggers.

#167 paul on 10.09.15 at 3:59 pm

#158 paul on 10.09.15 at 3:04 pm

The nut doesn’t fall far from the tree!

The other primary legacy of the Trudeau years has been financial. Net federal debt in fiscal 1968, just before Trudeau became Prime Minister, was about $18 billion, or 26 per cent of gross domestic product; by his final year in office, it had ballooned to $206 billion—at 46 percent of GDP, nearly twice as large relative to the economy.

Thanks Wikipedia

The second-largest budget deficit in history belonged to Brian Mulroney. The largest belongs to Stephen Harper. To be fair. I’m not sure condemning someone for his father’s actions is too swift. — Garth
———————————————————-Yes you are right about the commendation.But.
Justin is trading on his father’s name and fame so I think it comes with the territory.Also Justin is the one touting an increase in deficit spending.

#168 miketheengineer on 10.09.15 at 4:26 pm

Garth et al:

End to Pension Plans….20,000 – 80 & 90 year olds, will likely loose their benefits…stuff that they went on strike to get, many, many times.

Precedent is now going to be set today, by the Judges rule. If he rules with the Company, it paves the way for every company, to ditch their obligations, no matter what the circumstances, and hence screw little old ladies and gentlemen that can’t fight for themselves.

US Steel is a global company….they can help pensioners if they wanted to….thing is, they don’t want to.

YOUR PENSION IS NEXT…DO YOU HEAR PEOPLE….YOUR PENSION IS NEXT.

And everything looks like they are going to do it too.

Legalized theft….that is what it amounts to.

The fate of all the pensions in this country will be set today. Mark the date….Oct. 9, 2015. Precedent will be set.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5951456-today-is-decision-day-for-u-s-steel-canada/

Fleece the company….leave the people with little of their penison (lucky if the get half)…and leave the city of Hamilton short 6 million bucks….ouch that hurts. And the province/city…will have to clean up the site later ….for about 1 billion bucks. Oh! all Canadians will have to pay for this, did they forget to mention this….yes it affects you too.

WOW….amazing they can do this. I can’t believe it. And there is nothing the 80 and 90 year olds can do about it….nothing….no laws to protect them, no governments either.

US Steel wins, and it is over for every Union.

Unions like local 1005, set the pace and made working conditions for everyone in the country better. Like them or hate them, we have all benefited from them.

My grandfather worked at Stelco back in the late 1920’s
and 1930…before social benefits and unions.

The had no bath rooms…no lockers. If you had to go, you went outside (-40), 50 men to one small sink. Several people dying on the job, every month, etc…No safety. It was a “bad” job back then…and the people were treated little better than slaves. Oh and the work day was around 10 to 12 hours, Monday to Saturday. Vacation….mmmm not sure they had any back then.

And if you didn’t give the foreman a bottle of whiskey every once in awhile, you didn’t get called back to work.

We all benefit from the History of our unions, each and every worker in our beautiful country.

Sorry to rant, but I am seeing friends, relatives and neighbours freaking out right now….and nobody has anything positive to say about this.

It makes me sick, to think about what is going to happen to all the widowers, in their 80’s and 90’s, when their benefits will get cut off….

And how in about 12 to 24 months, how the 20000 pensioners, will be forced to sell their homes, cause they can’t afford to pay for medical expenses, food and their homes.

#169 broader mind on 10.09.15 at 4:48 pm

The second-largest budget deficit in history belonged to Brian Mulroney. The largest belongs to Stephen Harper. To be fair. I’m not sure condemning someone for his father’s actions is too swift. — Garth ——————————————————————– Not that you necessarily care but my respect for you is really running at an all time high.

#170 The Other Chris on 10.09.15 at 4:52 pm

@165:

Please keep us up to date on what the judge decides on the pension issue. Did you see today that Bombadier got a reprieve from having to make its pension contributions this year? Bombadier may end up going the way of US Steel.

It may be that many or most private sector pensions are no longer sustainable without big cutbacks, and that the only people with pensions they can count on are the public service, particularly federally (since the Federal government cannot legally default on its accrued pension obligations; the provinces legally can, but probably won’t).

#171 ROCK BEATS PAPER on 10.09.15 at 4:57 pm

The US Dollar (DXY) topped in March, so it s not just commodities that are impacting exchange rates. Actually, Garth has it backwards. During this currency war, it is the cross rates that drive other asset classes. That was the FEDs point in their dovishness; to bring down the DXY further to stop the bleeding of other asset classes as well as corporate earnings.

#172 S.Bby on 10.09.15 at 5:03 pm

A record number 22,000 British Columbians are licenced real estate agents. That’s up 40 percent from ten years ago. Only 70 percent of students pass the final exam.
Dave Moore, Director of Licensing Education at UBC’s Sauder School of Business, admits the licensing test isn’t easy.

http://www.news1130.com/2015/10/08/enrollment-in-bc-real-estate-licensing-program-reflects-hot-market/

#173 Herb on 10.09.15 at 5:08 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/obama-oil-exports-1.3265338

As reported in the above link, the Republican majority in Congress has voted to end the 40-year old ban on oil exports from the USA. “Lifting the export ban would lower prices at the pump, create jobs and boost the economy, said Republican House Speaker John Boehner from Ohio.”

What will be far more likely to happen is that this will reduce oil stockpiles in the United States, hence available supply, and thus provide a fig leaf of demand to increase oil prices. Check this prediction in a few months. Well done, the Party of Business, pursuing a course while pretending to do the opposite.

And that is why I am a “socialist”. While not as transparently as in the USA, regardless of which party forms the Government of Canada, the Power Corporation (as a stand-in for the corporate world) is in power. At least the Dippers wouldn’t start governing being beholden to one sector, and so might be able to govern for the benefit of the entire country.

#174 conan on 10.09.15 at 5:09 pm

The restaurant and bar industry are enjoying this particular Jays play off game.

#175 devore on 10.09.15 at 5:24 pm

#105 Trojan House

Ask any lawyer, they will tell you this.

Oh? So when a salesguy at car dealership shows me a car and I take it for a test drive, then go buy the car somewhere else or a totally different car, I owe him commission?

I don’t think I need to be asking a lawyer about this.

#176 saskatoon on 10.09.15 at 5:27 pm

#165 miketheengineer

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/court-approves-us-steel-plan-to-cut-canadian-unit/article26759332/

#177 Yes sir on 10.09.15 at 5:44 pm

#3

Good point but who would want to date a woman from Plenty-of-Fish. Your obviously not a millennial.

Also Match.com is for Generation X. Do some research before you post :p

#178 Nagraj on 10.09.15 at 6:45 pm

#165 MIKE THE ENGINEER

Indeed, US Steel Canada (whatever that is) just got the legal go-ahead to brutally murder over 20,000 senior citizens in Hamilton, Ont.
It’s really brutal cuz takin’ old folks’ dentures and glasses, etc., does ensure a lingering death. They gits their teeth fixed, pays the dentist, then they can’t afford groceries.
Needless to say, Hamiltonians (including the city gov’t which will be out a coupla million bucks in its tax take) are mad as all hell. (Which is where ALL dentists go when they die.) (Hell’s full of dentists.) (And plumbers.)

Mulcair and Trudeau are well advised to RACE to Hamilton to see who gets there first, Harper would be well advised to never show up in Hamilton, ever.

#155 RALPH CRAMDOWN

– about the simian “War of the Month Club” –
I take it we’re also talkin’ about Boehner, McCarthy and Ryan.
Boehner chainsmokes, has a kind of yellowish tinge to his skin, and seems to suffer from some minor neurosis which manifests as uncontrollable crying – it’s actually painful to watch him trying to control this.
There are now rumours that McCarthy has been screwin’ around – only in North America would this become a disqualifying issue. (Certainly not France, e.g.)
And have you noticed that Ryan bears a strange resemblance to Count Chocula? (Mainly because of his widow’s peak.) All he needs is a cape with a high collar.

As for raising the debt ceiling – because I so enjoyed this hilarious little horror movie the last time, I say: Go Tea Party Go! Freak EVERYBODY out!

(Obama is also a heavy smoker. Michelle’s been trying to get him to quit. Oh, and I read where some of the simians BURST INTO TEARS when McCarthy announced his withdrawal.)

#179 Daisy Mae on 10.09.15 at 7:53 pm

#165: “It makes me sick, to think about what is going to happen to all the widowers, in their 80’s and 90’s, when their benefits will get cut off….

And how in about 12 to 24 months, how the 20,000 pensioners, will be forced to sell their homes, cause they can’t afford to pay for medical expenses, food and their homes.”

*****************

The taxpayers will pick up the shortfall – GIS. As always. This type of thing has been going on for a very long time. I remember when CUPE took away dental coverage for the ex. “Nothing sure in life but death and taxes.”

#180 M on 10.10.15 at 4:00 am

..and Gartho..if you think my previous comments are heartless please be my guest in reading this:

https://www.bad-credit-loans.ca/mortgage-lenders/

.. read the comment/info at the bottom.

Makes one cringe..

#181 Ronaldo on 10.10.15 at 6:12 pm

#172 devore on 10.09.15 at 5:24 pm
#105 Trojan House

”Ask any lawyer, they will tell you this.”

”Oh? So when a salesguy at car dealership shows me a car and I take it for a test drive, then go buy the car somewhere else or a totally different car, I owe him commission?”

I always understood that to be a legal contract there would have to be, an offer, an acceptance and consideration. At least that’s what they taught us in school.

I don’t think I need to be asking a lawyer about this.

#182 historical ironies on 10.11.15 at 8:47 am

The second-largest budget deficit in history belonged to Brian Mulroney. The largest belongs to Stephen Harper.

This is ironic. Mulroney supported NAFTA was supposed to save the Canadian economy and Harper was elected on the promise of “balanced budget”.

NAFTA clearly did not help to convert the Canadian resource selling economy into something more sophisticated, that can withstand the commodity price cycles, which still bring economic devastation in a matter of months.

The bigger than NAFTA secretly negotiated TPP trade deal, signed days before voting was not even an election issue.

This blog shows how Canadian’s expectation of fiscal conservationism have been reduced to clinging on to the individual $5000 TFSA gain and the dream of the renter society, in the country with probably the largest land per headcount ratio in the world.

#183 oli on 10.11.15 at 11:48 am

So the lesson here is not to be friends with Realtors… and break up with existing friends who are Realtors.

Here’s another case where someone else got screwed by the BRA.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/homelife-superstars-realtor-accused-of-duping-homebuyer-of-12k-1.2928982

#184 westcdn on 10.11.15 at 12:24 pm

My favourite song for the moment – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTxYQL2SbA
I have to love the reference to the “Munsters”.
Uma Thurman!!!! I also like the “The Hanging Tree” – https://www.youtube.comgr/watch?v=F3hTW9e20d8

Fun is over for me. I think that once the Oil run is over, Canada is in for pain. There is nothing in the recent run than has to do with fundamentals. I just see speculation in oil prices and betting against the CDN$ is wise if 60$US wti u$ is reached. Man, debt levels are too high.

#185 crossbordershopper on 10.11.15 at 3:41 pm

as a guy who does taxes for litterly hundreds of old guys and widows of stelco employees i know first hand what a reduction of the pension will do to these people.
it is significant, most of them, receive the oas and the cpp, and about say 700 month pension, if the pension goes to 200 then its a 500 month hit, it will be significant.
its just that there are so many in east end hamilton and stoney creek that it is difficult to get away from the hit it will do the local economy, everyone has a neighbour on stelco pension, like everyone i am not kidding, people forget that in the old days, there werent many factories and stelco was a monster employeer.
its poverty, the homeowners will have to sell anyway because many are anywhere from 70 to 90 years old.
they are done in their last few years, its sad it came to it, but i will see it first hand. do you know how many people still live with mom and dad in hamilton because there are no jobs, its almost like europe where its a family thing and everyone leans on everyone.
its just sad, these people were not rich to start, especially the widows, not a great life, and now it will be really challenging, getting rid of the car, no independence, selling the house, moving in with the daughter. lucky the people from toronto are buying in hamilton now, could be saving grace, because i kid you not those stelco pensions made friday pizza, tones of small stuff, there will be lots of small business closing down.

#186 BS on 10.11.15 at 5:11 pm

There is risk everywhere. But if you have the opportunity to control your own destiny, why would you not take it? — Garth

Something I just cannot understand how people want to rely on an unknown third party to take responsibility for their well being in retirement. I say unknown because whether it is management of a private corporation or the government in power both will change over time and you have no idea who that will be in the future. Leaving something as important as your retirement income in someone else’s control who has no real interest in managing it well and often no control over economic black swans is crazy. Especially when you see how short the life cycle of a corporation can be these days. Who would have predicted bankruptcies of Nortel and GM or the complete downfall of Blackberry so quickly. Remember Enron which took over many utilities and their pensions. It wasn’t that long ago Greece was hosting the Olympics and everything seemed great in the Mediterranean. People there thought they could retire at 55. Things change quickly and why you would not want the money in your own account if you have the option is lunacy.