Choices

RAIN modified

If you’re voting for a better economy and more jobs, good luck. No party can deliver. As the US and China go, so do we.

If this election is about financial security for you and your family, well, that’s another dog. Your choice could have big long-term consequences. For example, the Liberals want to drop taxes by 7% for people earning between $45,000 and $89,000, which would yield a tax cut (they state) of about $650 per person per year. To finance that they’d raise taxes by 13% on the paltry 313,000 people in Canada who earn more than $200,000. They’d pay an extra $9,600 each, which means over 50% of wages would be removed in tax.

By the way, about one-third of all those higher-income earners are doctors, who make an average of $328,000. If your community is lacking in medical care, don’t expect that taxing them more will make it a whole lot better. (An orthopedic surgeon in the US earns $440,000, compared to $208,000 in Canada and $324,000 in Britain – all in US$.)

The NDP is not planning to diddle with tax brackets, except for corporations. They propose lowering the small business tax rate and hiking the one for big businesses, in order to raise about $3 billion. Of course, large companies have no national allegiance, so tightening the screws on profits too much could lead to a factory or head office crossing the border where costs are less. So much for jobs.

The Dippers, by the way, would spend all of the $3 billion on cheap day care spaces, leaving nothing additional (except deficits) for infrastructure spending or keeping their promise of $36 billion more for the provinces for health care – to pay all those expensive doctors. This is NDP math. Like taking a new mortgage on the same house 11 times.

The Libs would also give families more money than the Cons for each kid, while both the opposition parties would nix the current Harper plan to extend income-splitting to all families with stay-at-home moms.

There is no doubt, in other words, that both the Liberals and NDP would have to sustain deficits for a long period of time in order to pay for the spending proposed, since tax increases alone cannot do the trick – and will exacerbate our existing tax load. Trudeau has already said that, if elected, he would continue Mr. Harper’s legacy of spending more than is raised. By the way, since coming to office in late 2005, the Conservatives have added $135 billion in new debt (check this out). More to come. Tell your grandkids!

What’s likely the defining financial issue for your family, your finances and your personal economic future is the TFSA. As you know, the Cons did what they promised and jacked the annual contribution limit to $10,000 this year. That means you can take up to ten grand in after-tax savings, invest it through this vehicle and the money you accumulate will not be taxed when you remove it – presumably to finance your retirement. The Liberals and NDP, if elected, would reverse this. Trudeau would roll the annual limit back to $5,000, and Mulcair to $5,500.

Both argue this is somehow unfair because most Canadians cannot invest to the limit since they lack the money. They neglect to mention TFSA contributions are made from income that’s already been taxed and, unlike RRSPs, there is no reduction in tax or loss of direct federal revenue when the plan is used.

Also unlike RRSPs, the benefit for which rises dramatically for rich people, the TFSA limit is egalitarian and uniform. Everybody gets the same chance, regardless of income or wealth. Additionally, it is cumulative. A 25-year-old might not be able to use it now, but when she’s 40 all that room will be there to benefit from. Finally, encouraging private savings is massively cheaper for society than trying to create and administer a public income support system, especially with an aging population. This is why I first proposed the TFSA to that elfin deity known as F.

As you mull this, it might be useful to have some facts.

First, consider a couple of fortysomethings deciding to max their TFSAs as the primary retirement vehicles. If they start in 2015, contribute the limit thereafter and invest in a balanced portfolio earning a long-term average of 7% (consistent with the last thirty years), here’s how much tax-free money they will have accumulated in 25 years, under these political plans…

Conservative ($20,000 max between them): $1,373,529, of which $853,000 is growth.
NDP ($11,000 max between them): $755,441, of which $469,000 is growth
Liberal ($10,000 max between them): $686,764, of which $426,000 is growth.

Now, for a 25-year old single person who decides to focus only on her TFSA, and is able to make the maximum contribution annually (no inflation adjustment), earning a 7% average investment return over 40 years, here is the scorecard:

Conservative ($10,000 max): $2,146,095 (growth is $1.7 million)
NDP ($5,500 max): $1,180,320 (growth is $954,000)
Liberal ($5,000 max): $1,073,047 (growth is $868,000).

If you trust politicians more than you trust yourself, if you think wealthy people should pay dearly for their success, if you believe employers will embrace lower profits and doctors less compensation and you’ll never be an investor, you have two great choices. If you just want change, without more tax or more government, you have a problem.

Isn’t democracy wicked?

328 comments ↓

#1 DisgustMadeMePost on 09.13.15 at 1:03 pm

Keep TFSA limits? Is this THE election issue?

What about a policy change midstream?

There is no reason that NDP or Liberals can’t come out and say: the people have spoken. And we are listening!

Wouldn’t that be refreshing?

I’d still prefer to tax the corporations more…

#2 DisgustMadeMePost on 09.13.15 at 1:04 pm

And.. what a great dad!

#3 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 1:06 pm

Garth ,you disappoint me….I was ready for my next “Lesson”.

#4 Randy on 09.13.15 at 1:06 pm

Why don’t the Liberals and the NDP eliminate the tax-free status of the principle residence. Wouldn’t that stop the ever-growing housing bubble and make housing more affordable for the ‘poor’ middle class ? …unless they were just sh^tting us ….

#5 Steerage Bilge on 09.13.15 at 1:07 pm

Mulcair explicitly said he would not change income splitting for seniors.. he said it to Peter and it’s in their platform

http://www.ndp.ca/news/mulcair-announces-plan-stronger-pensions-and-retirement-security

– Protecting pension-income splitting for seniors and Registered Retirement Income Fund enhancements

#6 Michael King on 09.13.15 at 1:08 pm

Regular reader and big fan. Here is my conundrum about the upcoming election. On financial policies alone I would support the Conservatives. The numbers you present regarding the different retirement scenarios are shocking. My wife and I have TFSAs that are maxed and were delighted when the contribution limit was raised this year. However, in my view the Harper Conservatives have been involved in so many scandals that it is hard to vote for them. Rewarding bad behaviour etc. What do others think about this?

#7 Rainclouds on 09.13.15 at 1:10 pm

Well anything can be undone, so if we need to swallow a bit of bad medicine to vanquish the Reform Party and their tone deaf, fundamentalist, tea party sycophants so be it.

If they had the courage to get rid of the anchor around their necks (Rt Hon Steve Harper) and allow actual facts to guide the debate based on reality as opposed to revolting half truths and smear perhaps they wouldn’t be in this position.

Yes, we get what we deserve

#8 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 1:13 pm

Tom Mulcair as prime minister is perhaps plausible for some people .
Tom Mulcair as finance minister ,run for your lives !
At least we know he can count to 11 I guess…

#9 DisgustMadeMePost on 09.13.15 at 1:23 pm

I find the policy of muzzling of our top scientists more alarming than the loss of the TFSA room.

15 years in a row of the same oppressive ‘leader’.

(shudders)

#10 shikalu on 09.13.15 at 1:26 pm

Is Canada on the verge of a great brain drain of high end professionals, kind of like what happened with UK doctors in the 60s….

#11 Valley Girl on 09.13.15 at 1:34 pm

You never mention the Green Party.

Zero chance of forming government or opposition. — Garth

#12 Scumop on 09.13.15 at 1:38 pm

Is the TFSA such a gift to the rich and somehow harmful to the working poor?

If you are a wealthy one-percenter, that TFSA drop of 5500 (or 10K or 5K or whatever) is likely less than 1% of your income. You would be hard pressed to see much difference.

And you paid max tax on anything you dropped in.

OTOH if your income is low, you probably pay almost no income taxes anyway. If you put money in an rrsp, you could end up paying significantly more tax in the long term, given there is little to no tax benefit for you in rrsp contributions while working for peanuts. And do taxes go down over the long run? No.

But if you are packing away even a small amount in the TFSA each month, there is no future tax. Retirement income is going to be higher.

That you cannot max the tfsa does not mean the rich have some magic benefit that hurts you because of it. It only means you cannot max it. So what? If you cannot max the tfsa you cannot max an rrsp either.

Funny: since the 1%er paid max tax and maxed the contribution while Joe the poorly working paid almost no tax anyway, GovCo wins! More palaces, more junkets, more public sector employees thanks to TFSAs and 1%ers.

#13 Paul A on 09.13.15 at 1:41 pm

it would seem that the old proverb is very applicable to this situation ” better to deal with the devil you know” than roll the dice get it! and i am non partisan! but think you should cast your vote it is very important , and this go around given the realities, this could be a critical cross roads for our country so do your research,look at the issues and above all make a informed decision and “VOTE”

#14 Fran on 09.13.15 at 1:49 pm

Tax-wise I like the Libs – I make under $200K so they’re in my best interest. Screw all that fear-mongering about wealthy leaving. We’re one of the most livable countries in the world, a few doctors might leave but not a huge number aren’t going to uproot themselves from the nation they love and leave because of a 2% tax increase.

Financial savings wise I like the Cons – I want the TFSA room

Housing wise I like no one – I want to own a house one day but this market needs some deflating. The Cons are too willing to keep juicing it with renovation tax credits and RRSP withdrawls but no one else seems to be concerned.

I dunno, maybe I’ll throw my vote away and vote Green.

#15 Harpers generous to a fault on 09.13.15 at 1:50 pm

The TFSA argument clearly shows the divide between the socialist and adult ideologies. Socialists hate any savings that can not be taxed immediately….even if it has already been taxed at source. The same socialist argument could be applied to people who have a king size bed opposed to a government mandated one size fits all.

What Canadians want to is the security to know they can save for themselves with money they earn themselves….neither Liberal or NDP offers that utopia.

What is lost here is that the NDP and Liberal backers in union and civil service positions have no fear of the future as they have security that no Canadian shares and see no harm in beating down the rest…while they feather their nests with luxury pensions lined with feathers plucked out of the taxpayers backs and live on wages , salaries and perks far higher than any Canadian gets. And as we’ve seen in every recession…the civil service only grows while the private citizen is laid off.

Harpers extra debt was a product of pandering to the liberals and ndp during the great recession. he thought he was buying labour piece by plumping the fat ranks of civil servants instead of asking them to accept the same reality as all other citizens. But no…they’ve turned on the hand that fed them so generously and call him a spendthrift…for allowing them to continue gouging while so many others starved. That’s NDP mathematics. “One for all…but more for us”.

#16 Linda on 09.13.15 at 1:57 pm

If you just want change, without more tax or more government, you have a problem.

Isn’t democracy wicked?

————————————————————

Actually, Garth, only the party leading this currently degraded democracy is wicked. Truly, a threat to democratic principles and open society like we have never had before, which has eerie resemblances to fascistic dictatorships. I am not kidding.

Why would you value mere money more than getting rid of that? You sound a bit like the frog in the proverbial gradually boiling pot of water, oblivious to what is happening.

I am well off, but not rich. For me, an NDP or Liberal government likely will mean more taxes.

But a better country to spend my time in.

Aren’t you the one who talks about the quality of your “time” as being so important?

Or is that just a talking point of convenience?

I really care about the country my kids will inherit. It’s really not just about me and my boomer friends and our portfolios.

And face it, the Conservatives have shown no particular skill, and quite a bit of bungling, in their overall economic files. It would be no surprise that continuing in office would see them commit many errors that would overshadow any “good” you see in their TFSA etc…policies. Liberal and NDP governments have been okay to actually pretty good managers of the economies they oversee. And we can always boot them out, since we won’t have any more “fair election” laws trying to curtail our democratic rights!

The Libs have the guts to put a plan out there and be honest. Their leader? Not so good. But a pretty solid, experienced team. The NDP? Good leader, pretty conservative, not so sure about the rest of the team. The Conservatives? Offensive, autocrat leader with no real life experience outside politics, verging on the pathological. A team of incompetent, unqualified lapdogs with no integrity or cohones to stand up to him – a frightening prospect for our nation.

Seriously Garth, how can you overlook what is really at stake here? It isn’t all about “money” as perceived in the short term.

You do a good service here. Perhaps you are working too hard?

May I suggest, you might want to start taking Sundays off and go out drinking instead with friends, family, kids etc… It’ll help put things in perspective for you :)

( But not with any posters from here ! )

With respect, I may have more political and economic experience than you. Just a hunch. — Garth

#17 Nora Lenderby on 09.13.15 at 1:57 pm

Ah…I got it, Mr. T. The TFSA will actually make more rich people. (Or more people rich.) Duh.

And all that investment should be good.

#18 entropic entity on 09.13.15 at 2:05 pm

As one who is becoming increasingly wrinkly, the prospect of being able to sock away lots in my TFSA doesn’t seem very important, as I will soon be retired, and my income will decrease to the point where I won’t be able to afford putting more into the TFSA. Of course one can still gradually transfer funds from RSPs into the TFSA, but even there one needs to be careful about the tax implications of taking too much out of the RSP in a given year, and there probably won’t be much left of those withdrawals after living expenses.

It seems reasonable to make somewhat riskier investments with TFSA funds, due to the potential for higher tax-free returns. Risky investments, however, sometimes go south. Normally one could claim the losses to offset other capital gains, but in a TFSA this is not permitted.

All things considered, the TFSA-limit policies of the various parties are not particularly important to me. Of much greater importance is getting rid of megalomaniacal Harper. Hope the Libs get a majority so that one will be able to use cannabis without having to risking getting a criminal record through dealings with the black market.

#19 Sol Orwell on 09.13.15 at 2:06 pm

> They neglect to mention TFSA contributions are made from income that’s already been taxed and, unlike RRSPs, there is no reduction in tax or loss of direct federal revenue when the plan is used.

That’s a bit duplicitious. Sure – that may not have a negative impact on the government’s “revenue” this year, but way down the line, when people’s TFSA has ballooned, the govt has no dime to show for it.

TFSA is a pre-growth tax, whereas RRSP is a post-growth tax, and obviously the former hurts far more than the latter *in the future* (in terms of balancing the budget).

> if you believe employers will embrace lower profits and doctors less compensation and you’ll never be an investor

Frank Lutz would be proud of the message massaging going on here :)

#20 JSS on 09.13.15 at 2:07 pm

NDP for me!

#21 45north on 09.13.15 at 2:16 pm

If you’re voting for a better economy and more jobs, good luck.

reality is not keeping up with expectations and people are looking around for buttons to push

Michael King: However, in my view the Harper Conservatives have been involved in so many scandals that it is hard to vote for them.

well Mike Duffy is a Harper Conservative, and so’s the pee candidate ( whoever he is ). They’re small beer.

Disgust: I find the policy of muzzling our top scientists more alarming than the loss of the TFSA room.

me too. I mean the policy of muzzling our scientists is more alarming than a couple of minor scandals.

For years I worked to maintain the Canadian Soil Information Service. The biggest problem were well-meaning regulations which doubled the cost with no benefits. I posted this a couple of years ago:
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2012/04/10/night-sweats/comment-page-3/#comment-164171

no party is going to touch this because you cannot address this issue in a 30 second sound bite.

#22 Brian Ripley on 09.13.15 at 2:22 pm

The Green Party Tax Platform:
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy-background-2015/part-a

What is overdue for sure is tax reform.

I have republished links to “The Automated Payment Transaction Tax” model developed by University of Wisconsin Professor of Economics Edgar L. Feige … here:

http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/apt

By capitalizing on financial data processing technology, it is possible to create a tax code for the 21st century; one that is astonishingly easy for all citizens to understand, that is easy to administer and to comply with because it eliminates the need to file tax or information returns.

We have the technology to do this. But politicians are focused on crafting tax policy that rewards ideological donors. Perhaps the millennials or their children will tackle this problem when they get to parliament.

Uber Tax if you will. Imagine a “sharing economy” without ANY taxes, only a micro-fee on transactions!

#23 no doctor on 09.13.15 at 2:23 pm

No young doctor will stay in bc when he’she can make double the money in Seattle with half the cost for housing and everything else. Welfare state my ar$€
If rates are raising Thursday we are all in trouble.

#24 Blobby on 09.13.15 at 2:29 pm

Or, we could vote for Harper.. And get the exact same crap we’ve had for the last 4 years… Wars, fear mongering, looking after the rich, to hell with the environment, muzzling scientists, wasting tax money on self promoting ads, etc etc etc.

#25 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 2:30 pm

Another way to look at the TFSA conundrum is that if you are pro tfsa and either the Libs or NDP gets voted in it will result in 20k in lost contribution room until the next election cycle ( 4 years X 5k) which in 25 to 40 years depending on your retirement timeline will add up to serious coin .I am sure uncle Garth will tell me how much …

#26 SWL1976 on 09.13.15 at 2:35 pm

There’s no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated

Financially we are screwed no matter which way we slice it.

Stick a fork in it. Done deal.

So my question is… Do we want to continue dumping billions into botched F-35’s and over sea’s wars against fabricated enemies, or shall we have more rational discussions on the subjects?

There’s a 3 way race in which we all lose

#27 Estrella on 09.13.15 at 2:37 pm

Be careful what you wish for.. there is no clear winner. There is no sure answer. I can say that the future with a conservative in Canada and a Republican in th US (just not Trump, please lord) would be the financial winner for our future. Otherwise, anyone with a good salary who can move to the states and get a visa (a.k.a health care worker in one of their most wanted professionals, like I was more than a decade ago) just get outta here. GO. Don’t look back because the socialists won’t give you any chance of getting ahead. All those years of study, all the liability you take on everyday means nothing, and more than half what you make will go to the community pot. Run as fast as you can , if that ballot vote comes out to be orange or red. I’ve been there.I did it. Now, I can semi retire. No more taxes from me for your socialist daycare. The best feeling in life is when you can work when you want, and not because you have to. I believe in paying my part, but more than 50% . Pfsst. Good luck.

#28 The Other Chris on 09.13.15 at 2:38 pm

This is a good post Garth.

The one thing that no one really talks about is the one-two punch of higher taxes *and* a low dollar. One of the reasons the Ontario government was forced to raise doctors’ reimbursements so dramatically in the early 2000s was to help stem the brain drain down south partially caused by the 63 cent dollar.

As the dollar falls *and* taxes go up, the government will pretty much be forced to do the same thing again, which probably means that a big chunk of the additional tax revenue raised by the Liberal plan will just go out the door towards higher payments to doctors in order to compensate.

#29 Retired Boomer - WI on 09.13.15 at 2:40 pm

Ok, Garth. What’s not to like with using both the TFSA and the RRSP?
In the US we have similar the 401-K like the RRSP is money one puts away pre-tax, often with some kind of an employer’s match be it 1-6% depending on the ability and generousness of said employer.
Even the most indebted recent graduate of high school, trades, or college, even late blooming boomer who just turned 50 should be using this one. You will pay tax on withdrawals later….

The TFSA like the US ROTH saving vehicle is an afar tax type of saving device that is not subject to taxation on withdrawals in the future. When one is low paid beginning their career with many a want, and need these might not be the most practical. When one hits their mid 30’s or 40’s these tend to look more appealing. Still maybe 30 years of tax free growth ahead, and in good equity ETF’s that growth can be stunning! AND as the raven said, “never more” shall you pay taxes on this lovely.

WAIT!…THERE’S MORE… IF you don’t DO either you will NEVER have the independence of “FU” money along the way. IF you are over 40 and NOT trying to max out the TFSA, why? IF you are under 40 and not using the RRSP why, again? You get retirement security SLOWLY over time. People get FAT the same way, slowly, over time!
Better to have a chubby wallet, but it is really all the same concept isn’t it?

I found for us, (two average ish earners best year ever 102K combined) we fed both the 401-K and Roth’s to the best of our ability.

Now in geezerland, we spend the 401K first to supplement the geezer money from social security (about 3% year) while the rest perks along in investments.

Do we have every thing we might want? Never will, but we DO have everything we need, including the ability to buy whatever we need (new car appliances etc) with no debt.
Getting the modest (no granite) house paid for was a major accomplishment. We just wanted no debts, and a well funded retirement. However long that might need to last.

Just back from the funeral of my dear friend -an English teacher- who lived and taught with a brain tumor since 1992 until health forced her retirement and passed at 63. Really puts the value of “things” in perspective for one.

MY age… life is not QUITE forever… just feels like it if you’re broke! We are NOT ‘rich’ but, more than enough!

#30 observer on 09.13.15 at 2:42 pm

What Democracy, we live in a socialist society

The poor wants to live in the same high end world as the rich and doesn’t want to the sacrifice or risk that comes with the game.

They also want it NOW.. without thinking of the long term effects.

Our government is the worst for this. They just want to stay in power and will do whatever it takes to please the sheeple’s short term goal

#31 Retired Boomer - WI on 09.13.15 at 2:42 pm

By the way whether its $5500 or $10,000 if you are not using the TFSA it is nobody’s loss but yours. Happy Savings!

Good luck choosing the best lesser to run your country, we get true clown choices next year. Big whoop!

#32 X on 09.13.15 at 2:54 pm

I can never understand the people who want to tax the wealthy doctors who studied for so long, for a career that really should be well compensated for. (At least I would like my health care professionals to be well paid if my health is in their hands) When some of the people who want to bring the high income earners down with taxes, have strived for little or no education for themselves…

I can only imagine that their mindset is a refection, once again or their lack of education.

For those that run successful businesses and have become high earners….again, cannot understand the mindset of wanting to tax them more, as that leaves them less to give me a raise with….

As for the TFSA….why not eliminate the carry over of RRSP contribution room after a year or two. The TFSA is better, I can take money out when my life circumstances necessitate it, penalty free, and if the money is left in the TFSA it is a compound money machine.

#33 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 2:57 pm

#4: “Why don’t the Liberals and the NDP eliminate the tax-free status of the principle residence. Wouldn’t that stop the ever-growing housing bubble…”

*****************

Land transfer taxes, RE commissions, moving costs and so on have not deterred anyone, so why would this proposal?

#34 Sixtyfourk on 09.13.15 at 3:01 pm

If you want to play around with the differences yourself, Wolfram Alpha has a very nice investment simulator.

It does random walks and classifies the output. It gives you a better feeling for the range of things that could happen to you than just saying “assume 7% per year average”.

For example, the link below shows that if you are 45 and contribute 20k this year and 20k per year until 65 to your TSFA, you could end up with between:

$461,210 (worst case)
$752,768 (average case)
$1.4M (best case)

It also allows you to play with various scenarios around withdrawing your money. For the link below you can see you can withdraw 12k per year in all situations and still barely have touched the principle by age 85.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=investment+calculator&f1=C%2420000&f=Investment.InitialInvestment_C%2420000&f2=C%2420000&f=Investment.OngoingInvestment_C%2420000&f3=45+yr&f=Investment.CurrentAge%5Cu005f45+yr&f4=65+yr&f=Investment.RetirementAge%5Cu005f65+yr&a=*FP.Investment.AccumulationPortfolioStyle-_Growth&a=*FP.Investment.DistributionPortfolioStyle-_Conservative&f7=12000&f=Investment.Withdrawal%5Cu005f12000&f8=0&f=Investment.TaxRate%5Cu005f0&a=*FVarOpt.1-_***Investment.Withdrawal–.***Investment.WithdrawalPercentage—.**Investment.TaxRate—&a=*FVarOpt.2-_**-.***Investment.InflationRate—.**Investment.Withdrawal-.*Investment.TaxRate—

#35 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 3:06 pm

#16: “The Conservatives? Offensive, autocrat leader with no real life experience outside politics, verging on the pathological. A team of incompetent, unqualified lapdogs with no integrity or cohones to stand up to him – a frightening prospect for our nation.”

***************

Amen….

#36 Anthony on 09.13.15 at 3:07 pm

Indeed we must choose the least worst option.

Also, I disagree with the fact that TFSA is egalitarian and uniform when you consider tax savings. However, it is much more fair than RRSP.

#37 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 3:09 pm

#18: “All things considered, the TFSA-limit policies of the various parties are not particularly important to me. Of much greater importance is getting rid of megalomaniacal Harper.”

*********************

Agree.

#38 rioal1 on 09.13.15 at 3:10 pm

I don’t know about you Garth, but , I have just read that “ATA” tax paper and am both amazed and disgusted by it.
Amazed by the simplicity and disgusted by the fact that I have never herd any politician discuss the idea before.
Why???????

#39 rioal1 on 09.13.15 at 3:12 pm

Sorry, should be “ATP” above.

#40 OXI in GREECE !! on 09.13.15 at 3:25 pm

1. We have no democracy. We have a party elected dictator. That is why Canada is falling like a stone

2. We will soon be heading into a depression. Good luck everyone.

#41 Smartalox on 09.13.15 at 3:28 pm

So what’s the reason for the Liberals’ and NDP position on TFSAs? Is it ignorance of the costs / benefits as laid out in this column – the simple (incorrect) reasoning that more contribution room means a greater burden on household budgets? Is it because their parties didn’t invent them?

Or is it a shrewd calculation that a healthy TFSA program could reduce the size and cost of government, which appears to be anathema to socialist ‘big government’ dogma?

I doubt the existence of the latter, but when I hear the Liberals talk about letting people use their RRSPs as ATMs, I wonder. The cost of administration for such a plan would be much higher, compared to an enhanced TFSA, where only the amount withdrawn is recorded, not the reason, or the repayment schedule. TFSA withdrawals can be replaced at any time provided certain basic rules are met.

I’m no economist, but it would seem to me that it is better to assess tax revenue on current income instead of modeling, forecasting and projecting what revenues COULD BE in 25 to 30 years from now. Seems like the potential for error and over estimation is much higher.

#42 eddy on 09.13.15 at 3:31 pm

http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1435

H wants to hand out 10 million to study the root causes of terror.
Of course he already knows the answer.
Do you think England bombed itself during ww2?, that was the war when churchill had a bbc actor read his radio speeches, as he high tailed it out of london, knowing bombs were coming

#43 Red Deer Rob on 09.13.15 at 3:32 pm

Likely spoiling my vote this year.

#44 Setting the Record Straight on 09.13.15 at 3:38 pm

@13
#13 Paul A on 09.13.15 at 1:41 pm
it would seem that the old proverb is very applicable to this situation ” better to deal with the devil you know” than roll the dice get it! and i am non partisan! but think you should cast your vote it is very important , and this go around given the realities, this could be a critical cross roads for our country so do your research,look at the issues and above all make a informed decision and “VOTE”

$$$$$$$
Make an informed decision.
Refuse to vote!

#45 Smoking Man on 09.13.15 at 3:43 pm

Wow , Even Conrad Black throws Harpo under the bus..

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//full-comment/conrad-black-where-is-the-leader-with-the-vision-to-match-the-refugee-crisis

And a soft endorsement for the dippers…

WTF is going on…

#46 BS on 09.13.15 at 3:46 pm

By the way, about one-third of all those higher-income earners are doctors, who make an average of $328,000. If your community is lacking in medical care, don’t expect that taxing them more will make it a whole lot better.

Not only do the Liberals and NDP plan on taxing doctors other valued professionals into oblivion with income taxes they plan other measures to drive them out of Canada.

Trudeau last week told CBC’s Peter Mansbridge that a “large percentage” of small businesses have been created strictly to help wealthier Canadians save on their tax bills.

A large percentage? Really who are these tax cheats? According to the NDP they are doctors.

But he says the small business tax system needs “tweaking” to ensure it’s aimed at small businesses that actually create jobs, not used as a tax dodge by wealthy individuals, such as doctors and lawyers.

Last time I was at my doctors office there were other workers (jobs?). Lets punish those evil doctors. They could never just get up and leave the country could they?

On the other hand Justin Trudeau set up a numbered company and skimmed $1.3 million including tens of thousands from bogus charities to raise money which almost none ended up helping the people it was intended. More ended up in Trudeau’s pocket.

there are abuses and points as proof to the numbered company Trudeau set up to receive about $1.3 million in income he earned as a public speaker between 2006 and 2011.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/12/ndp-slams-trudeau-on-small-business-tax-cheats

Trudeau also took money from schools and hospitals as an MP. In other words Trudeau feels he is entitled to make millions from speaking at hospitals as an already paid MP but the key people doing the work deserve less. He also thinks he is entitled to pay a lower tax rate through a numbered company but we need to cut the doctors pay and not allow them to incorporate even though they run a legitimate business that provides jobs and helps people.

Some of the groups from which he accepted speaking fees were charitable or non-profit organizations, including universities, school boards, hospital and health care organizations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/16/trudeau-to-compensate-charities_n_3450340.html

#47 Frank Holland on 09.13.15 at 3:50 pm

To Randy #4

If the NDP gets rid of the tax free status of primary residence, Tom Mulcair could not refinance his primary residence 11 times.

Randy, you want to start hitting the big beast of the Canadian housing market bubble, put a refinancing tax of say 10% to start.

They wont do it because it would kill the golden goose.

#48 Mark in Guelph on 09.13.15 at 3:53 pm

#23-No Doctor-If rates are raising Thursday we are all in trouble.

Don’t worry about it.

#49 BS on 09.13.15 at 3:57 pm

However, in my view the Harper Conservatives have been involved in so many scandals that it is hard to vote for them. Rewarding bad behaviour etc. What do others think about this?

Every political party has baggage. All you can do is consider all factors and vote who ever makes the most sense to run the country. Running doctors out of the country doesn’t make sense for anyone.

There will be scandals with all parties. It is not about rewarding anyone. Regardless if the current regime gets elected again or not they will be rewarded. It is about what is best for you and others. Cutting your nose off to spite your face won’t help you any.

#50 Chris on 09.13.15 at 4:06 pm

This election is really Trudeau’s to lose. His number one priority now is to keep Ms. Wynne under control. If he can do that, he may just win. Any talk of public pension in Ontario is not helpful to Trudeau. Nobody wants the government to have control over more of our money. And the return they are proposing is not a good deal for the tax payers.

#51 BS on 09.13.15 at 4:10 pm

The part the NDP and Liberals likely did not think about is cutting the TSFA will reduce tax revenue short term. Probably over the next 10 to 20 years. Why? Because with less TSFA room more money will go into RRSPs which people get a tax credit for immediately. The gains of an RRSP are also tax sheltered until withdrawn in retirement so no tax revenue from that for a long time. Most TSFAs will not show up as an actual loss of tax revenue for decades.

#52 Kilby on 09.13.15 at 4:11 pm

The “Cons” would have a better chance without S. Harper, rightly or wrongly the perception of Canada as a dictatorship under his watch is pretty broadly accepted both by left and right of centre. Most of our friends are middle age to early retirement, fairly well off and for the most part, debt free or close to it. I know 3 people who would support Harper and they are the same ones that think Donald Trump will make a great president, know that global warming is a sham concocted by David Suzuki and fracking could not possibly cause minor earthquakes. I don’t like paying taxes more than the next person but realize that we all have to contribute to Canada and what we value as Canadians.

#53 Paul on 09.13.15 at 4:13 pm

If they roll back the TFSA will it be retroactive? Or only for the next tax year?

#54 For My Future on 09.13.15 at 4:15 pm

A very good breakdown of the long term economic benefits that each party will provide, Garth – thanks!

For myself personally, I have young children and could benefit from the cheap child care. The tax reduction would be nice for now but I hope to grow out of that bracket.

But, of all the economic issues that could positively effect me in the long run, is keeping the $10,000 limit on my TFSA. It’s the cake – the rest are just icing.

#55 common sense on 09.13.15 at 4:16 pm

Nice post Mr. T sans the gold.

PC’s win the TFSA issue hands down.

Didn’t Bill Clinton say “It’s the economy stupid” when talking about what people want aka jobs, security when deciding who to vote for….

It’s all down to money as it always has been and always will be…

So? Maybe create infrastructure jobs to fix roads, bridges? Tax breaks to build small housing for the wave of baby boomers starting to crest or convert huge single dwelling homes into more multi family housing?, etc etc..

TFSA reform? Please.

#56 chapter 9 on 09.13.15 at 4:18 pm

#6 Michael King
However, in my view the Harper Conservatives have been involved in so many scandals that it is hard to vote for them.

Remember Jane Stewart, she was the HRDC minister in the Chretien government an internal audit found that they didn’t track employment program grants to the tune of $1 billion, she refused to resign. Only a billion, what’s the problem!

The Gomery Inquiry found that Jean Chretien shares the blame for one of the worst political scandals in Canadian history illegal cash kick backs to the Quebec wing of the Liberal Party. No corruption there,anything to win an election!!

Jean Chretien and Paul Martin set EI rates for the years 2002,2003,2005. This requires an act of parliament not cabinet, it was only $46 billion employers and employee’s got screwed over.

Shawinigate, Remember when Chretien had a memory failure lied about owning real estate/hotel yet was involved in securing government financing for his buddy, totally illegal.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior,how easily we forget!!

#57 Blair on 09.13.15 at 4:24 pm

Let me understand this…

The Liberals have PROMISED to run deficits of up to $10-billion a year over the next three years and roll the TFSA back to 5K.

Okay, if a political leader PROMISES to put us further in debt and limit how I can save my after tax earnings, why on earth are there so many people considering voting for him?

If I promised my wife I’d take the family into debt for 3 years and vow not save as much for the future because we’d be better for it…does anyone care to try that out and see if it works???

#58 Irwin on 09.13.15 at 4:25 pm

Today’s word count:

Alberta: 0
Calgary: 0
Ft Mac: 0
Olga: 0

Not bad for Elul 29 2015

#59 You're kinda pathetic on 09.13.15 at 4:31 pm

#18 entropic entity
———–
You’re obviously an lonley elder, with not very many interests, no children or grandchildren – or you don’t like them.

You’re a real asset to our society.

#60 Smartalox on 09.13.15 at 4:49 pm

Garth, you made what I thought was a salient and important point this week about how ‘the wealthy’ pay a lot more in Tax before contributing to their TFSAs than the ‘middle class’.

I think that it is an important argument that bears repeating, especially to rebut the argument that TFSAs are a tax dodge.

I pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year; if I have enough left over to fill my TFSA, that’s my privilege.

Another, more alarming prospect from the Liberals was Trudeau talking with Mansbridge this week, saying that he’d eliminate small business tax credits for small, part-time businesses that “don’t create jobs”.

This is dangerous grounds for me: in addition to my regular day job, I’ve leveraged my expertise to instruct individuals in my field to improve their professional capabilities. I don’t hire these people myself, but I make them significantly more employable.

But to hear Trudeau say it, I’m just a wealthy gadabout, using my hobby-job for tax relief, and not contributing to the economy.

I daresay, I’m contributing more than most.

#61 LP on 09.13.15 at 4:51 pm

Hi Garth

I honestly don’t see why you and some others are becoming so exercised over the withdrawal of increased deposits to TFSA.

For a very long time you have been bemoaning the fact that (a) so few Canadians actually have an account and (b) if they do, they have absolutely no idea how to maximize their account balances.

That being the case, how will reverting to the lower deposit ceiling have much effect on those account holders? I’m not being a smart-a**; I genuinely want to know.

#62 Mukadi on 09.13.15 at 4:55 pm

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

B.F

#63 Math is hard on 09.13.15 at 4:55 pm

This is how I think the math you showed above is more fair.

Conservative ($20,000 max between them): $1,373,529, of which $853,000 is growth.

NDP ($11,000 max between them): $755,441, of which $469,000 is growth + Add $9000 year in a non-registered account which you pay 20% tax on gains. This is the same as making 5.6% per year instead of 7%. Anyway, 9,000 per year at 5.6 for 25 years is 492,000 for a total of $1,248,426.

Basically at the end of the day you end up with 10% more after 25 years under the conservative plan. Most people can compensate for that by buying ETFs rather than high prices mutual funds. Who cares?

#64 dirt bag politicians on 09.13.15 at 4:57 pm

so, it doesn’t matter what party is elected, they have no control over the economy…. it all depends on the US and China.. i see.

as for the Conservatives, they are hypocritical scumbags who are no better than the Liberals or NDP. they’ve run massive budget deficits, had 35 and 40 year mortgages, lied about supporting collapsing banks during the 2008 market crash, used CMHC as a political tool, and have strong armed the bank of Canada into taking rates to 50 bp trying to prop the housing market a few more weeks until after the election..

they’re going to lose.

all politicians are dirt bags. they look after themselves rather than doing the right thing.

you’re right, it doesn’t matter who gets in.

#65 Shaken' Stirred on 09.13.15 at 5:01 pm

#23

“No young doctor will stay in bc when he’she can make double the money in Seattle with half the cost for housing and everything else. ”

A young professional has be nutz to stay in Canada to practice. The opportunities in the US are thousands of times more available…while paying far less tax and getting a lifestyle as rich as a Canadian civil servant without feeling like a parasite to get it.

A young grad with a four year degree and those specialists with post grad creds…..the US is begging you to cross the border…..they wave you through and say thanks for coming.

You risk nothing….you get everything. If you want to return to Canada for the cheap hookers and get a ride in a rickshaw pulled by an impoverished lackey…do that on a vacation….after the exchange from the Canadian Peso….the vacation is free.

Good Lord….in Texas….a place I know well….groceries are a quarter the price…clothes ditto…selection fantastic…state taxes zero…..$300,000 is a 4000 sq ft mansion. My car …a 2015 Convertible Camaro is $19,900 in Dallas…$34,000 plus tax in BC ( state state tax in Texas remember) .

If you’re young and qualified…don’t be stupid…get the hell out of Canada…unless you’ve got a job in the civil service…..that’s like having an uncle in the mafia….and you’ll live like a king compared to the ‘others’.

#66 West Coast on 09.13.15 at 5:04 pm

Government intervention?
‘Canada’s new economic reality: What now, Mr. Prime Minister?’
Doug Saunders’ premise that ‘by international standards, all of Canada’s major parties are suggesting only modest (economic) initiatives’……
http://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-globe-and-mail-metro-ontario-edition/20150912/281479275196726/TextView
an interesting, if somewhat depressing view of Canada’s current economic reality and our government’s reaction………

#67 Bucky on 09.13.15 at 5:11 pm

Pity the misunderstood TFSA. First thought of as only a money market account, maybe by design by the banks, then seen as a benefit mostly for the elite. The genius of politics is creating a wedge issue, then getting a group of people who may most benefit from a program to rally against it. Great plan, but should have been named Tax Free Retirement Savings Account, or something really gaudy like the Wage Earner Retirement Tax Freedom Account.

Nice while it lasted. Hey, look on the bright side, all that extra future money brought in by tax on RRSPs will help make payments on the national debt racked up for the grandkids.

#68 OttawaMike on 09.13.15 at 5:15 pm

Harpo can be the elder statesman commenting on how Canada could have been better under him had we let him finish.
As one of the dawgs here likes to say: You can’t fight the herd.

Bye-bye and Thanks for coming out Cons.

#69 Paul on 09.13.15 at 5:18 pm

This best describes The N.D.P. and the Liberals nothing changes they want to take what someone else work for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WPkOp1XOgU

#70 Ralph Cramdown on 09.13.15 at 5:26 pm

“Also unlike RRSPs, the benefit for which rises dramatically for rich people, the TFSA limit is egalitarian and uniform. Everybody gets the same chance, regardless of income or wealth.”

??!? Somebody in a 50% tax bracket avoids over twice as much tax as someone in a 20% tax bracket, even if their TFSAs are identical.

Face it, you’re trying to sell the voters a turd, and they know it. To quote myself from last May:

When the TFSA was first introduced, it was, if you will, an aspirational savings plan. People could say to themselves “hell yeah I’ll save $5k per year and avoid tax on the income!”

Six years on, it is no longer aspirational. Most people probably know whether they’ve maximized their contributions so far, and most have not. It takes a lot more wishful thinking in that case to think the increased contribution room will soon benefit them personally. Further, your typical TFSA person with $10,000* contributed so far is probably dimly aware that the tax he saves on the 0.75% his bank is paying him won’t buy him a case of beer.

So when the Liberals come out and say “there’s not a lot of people who at the end of the year have $10,000 laying around that they can invest,” most people do not think “*I* usually have $10,000 laying around at the end of the year!” No, they think “this tax break does nothing for me.”

It isn’t even the kind of tax break that ineligible taxpayers can think “doesn’t apply to me, but goes to worthy recipients” such as Flaherty’s tax help for families with disabled children. Politically, it made a REALLY stupid foundation for an election platform. A more astute politician would’ve equivocated on whether the budget would be balanced this year, held off on hiking TFSA limits until after the election, and used the extra spending room to announce infrastructure spending or a tax break that swing voters/undecideds could actually use.

Harper’s been in a self-made bubble for far too long, and his political instincts have gone to crap. When you’ve gone through nine communication directors in ten years…

Anyway, this puppy’s done. Wouldn’t it be more fun to speculate on who’ll run as next leader of the Conservative party? Tony Clement vs. Doug Ford? God help us all!

#71 Retired Boomer - WI on 09.13.15 at 5:29 pm

“If you trust politicians more than you trust yourself”….

Credibility was lost during that transmission, captain… We have lost all contact with the northern neighbor… One of their final statements was so irrational…. well, laughable anyway.

“If you TRUST politicians MORE than you trust yourself”

laughable, eh?

#72 Wasabi on 09.13.15 at 5:31 pm

Shaken’ Stirred,
You should research a bit more using backpage.com and the cities of your choice. Up here it is more expensive, fewer face pics, and less variety.

#73 Linda on 09.13.15 at 5:39 pm

#6 – regarding the scandals, any party left too long in power becomes arrogant & ignores the electorate until the next elections comes along – then it is all glad hands & hand outs to whoever they deem will give them the best return vote wise for money spent. One thing I’ll say for Mr. Harper, he apparently has an absolute genius for picking Senate candidates whose behavior results in yet another scandal. Have there been any candidates he has named to the Senate who have actually kept out of trouble? And if they have done, maybe their fiscal records should be looked over given the track record of the others we actually know about. I know it isn’t fair to tar them all with the same brush, but if the Conservatives are on board with detaining people just on suspicion that they might be considering committing an illegal act, surely they can’t object if their fiscal records are audited to ensure they haven’t been diddling the books….. Oh wait, I forgot – those laws are only supposed to apply to Canadian citizens – the electorate – not the politicians that made those laws…..

#74 Blobby on 09.13.15 at 5:40 pm

@ SWL1976 : i spotted your reference :D

Noice!

#75 Harbour on 09.13.15 at 5:43 pm

Can you claim a capital loss in a TFSA ?

I don’t need to worry about Capital Gains Tax until I use up if ever my Capital Losses

#76 Romeo Jordan on 09.13.15 at 5:47 pm

Bone surgeons make closer to a million. I know several who make more.

Eye surgeons can get closer to two million.

That’s per year.

Garth, I believe the stats reflect what they pay themselves in t4 income from their professional services corporations. Not what they truly earn (and invest via their corps or dividend out to spouse and adult children).

They make way more than you’ve indicated. Multiples.

Fact.

Romeo Jordan

#77 B.O.B. on 09.13.15 at 5:49 pm

Many of my engineering cohorts are currently entertaining U.S. employers or have already accepted positions. Seriously considering it myself. Depreciating CAD will resume the brain drain.

#78 Totalchaos on 09.13.15 at 5:50 pm

In BC a number of years ago, an attemp was made to reign in health care costs. It was decided that after seeing 45 patients, a doctor can only bill for half of the regular service cost. After another number of patients, the doctors service costs are free.

Fast forward to now. Not only is it very difficult to find a family doctor, walk-in clinics will frequently shut early and post a sign saying they have already seen the maximum patients.

Suggesting few doctors will leave Canada because our quality of life is so much better than the US is being short sighted. Doctors en mass chosing to cut back from 60 hours a week to 55 as they feel punished for working harder is where the real concern should lie.

#79 Irish Stew on 09.13.15 at 5:51 pm

Great article Garth – I have fwd on to friends because I agree 100%.

#80 Ed on 09.13.15 at 5:54 pm

The politics is settled…I vote to retain the TFSA contribution at 10k.

#81 HellYeah on 09.13.15 at 5:55 pm

Long time voter. TFSA does not feature into my decision making.

– Cons created C51
– Libs support C51

Just a hint as to who I will not be voting for.

#82 Michael on 09.13.15 at 5:56 pm

“Conservative ($10,000 max): $2,146,095 (growth is $1.7 million)
NDP ($5,500 max): $1,180,320 (growth is $954,000)
Liberal ($5,000 max): $1,073,047 (growth is $868,000).”

Garth, your are assuming that if people cannot save tax-free, they will not save at all. That assumption does not seem reasonable to me.

If I have $10,000 / year to save, but can put only $5,000 of them in TFSA, then I will still invest the remaining $5,000 and try to make use of the dividend and capital gain tax credits. Sure, my combined growth rate will be slightly lower than if all money were in TFSA, but the difference in total will be around 10-15%, not 50%.

Buy a calculator. — Garth

#83 The Other Chris on 09.13.15 at 5:58 pm

Did anyone see Gary Marr’s article in The Province today? I had no idea that the NDP was potentially considering imposing lifetime maximum contribution limits to the TFSA.

#84 Michael on 09.13.15 at 6:01 pm

#4 Randy: “Why don’t the Liberals and the NDP eliminate the tax-free status of the principle residence.”

That would kill mobility. Imagine: you are selling your house, it had gone up 50% in the 5 or 10 years you owned it, and so did other houses of comparable size and quality. After you pay the capital gain tax, you will not have money to buy a comparable house in another neighborhood or another city. A lot of people will be stuck where they are.

#85 Freedom First on 09.13.15 at 6:05 pm

If the Liberals and the NDP are so against the “rich”, then why don’t they do something to help the “poor” they keep going on and on and on about?

Here’s a suggestion. To help the working “poor” why don’t they raise the non-taxable income level to, say, $30,000 a year? After all, the working “poor” they supposedly want to help, by punishing the evil “rich”, are paying a disproportionate amount of their income on the basic necessities of life.

I am not in love with H by any means, but the Libs and the NDP’s have definitely missed the boat. And they both are squandering a golden opportunity.

#86 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 6:08 pm

I had my tfsa maxed out at the start of the year before the government raised the limit .
I wasn’t to concerned about topping up the other 4500 this year as the markets have been like a bungee jumper but my wife said ” what happens if the Libs or the NDP get in would you lose that contribution room”
As in would they roll back this years increase to anyone who hadn’t used it .
I said “no way” then found myself thinking about it and had a nagging feeling in my guts that wasn’t last nights Mexican , so I just went online and topped it up once again .
Crisis averted …

#87 Ret on 09.13.15 at 6:12 pm

What is not said may cost your family and employer plenty. Increase GST back to 7%? Carbon taxes?Increases to all income tax rates?

#88 Drill Baby Drill on 09.13.15 at 6:13 pm

338 seats up for grabs, 170 wins it

Cons get 160
Commie Pinkos get 100
Libs get 77
Green get 01

This will mean Harper will have to play nice in the sandbox with either the Son of Trudeau or the commies in order to pass money bills. Since Harper detest anything Trudeau then the gov’t falls first chance it gets and we all head back for a Christmas election.

#89 TurnerNation on 09.13.15 at 6:28 pm

I thought this was a combo of Bitcoin and gold?
Toronto company:

https://www.bitgold.com/about-bitgold

Cannot end well imo.

#90 Porsche on 09.13.15 at 6:29 pm

#75 Harbour on 09.13.15 at 5:43 pm
Can you claim a capital loss in a TFSA ?

I don’t need to worry about Capital Gains Tax until I use up if ever my Capital Losses
……………………………………………………………………..

Of course not, if you don’t have to claim your Capital Gains on investments in a TFSA your not going to be able to claim your Capital Losses.

#91 gut check on 09.13.15 at 6:30 pm

TFSA is money that has already been taxed.
yeah.. that’s true.

But the investments made through the TFSA are non-taxable so don’t pretend that it’s revenue neutral.

Who benefits from tax havens, again?

Oh right. The investor class.
Who are the investor class again?
Oh right… the 1%.

Sugar candy coat it all you want, but it is what it is.

Am I saying this because I believe the 1% are inherently bad and ought to be stopped? No – but I hate propaganda and fast talk.

There are 10,700,000 TFSA account-holders in Canada, and 312,00 people who are 1%ers. You fail. — Garth

#92 Doing OK on 09.13.15 at 6:32 pm

#16 Linda
I believe Garth provides an extremely valuable service by writing this blog daily. I value it completely.
I agree with everything you say about our current government, Linda. A serious threat to our country. I just wish more people took an interest in our politics. In their self-interest, they would resist the poison that is Harper.

#93 MSM-Free Zone on 09.13.15 at 6:33 pm

“…Isn’t democracy wicked?…”
____________________

Exactly.

Unfortunately, there is much more to this election, than the $5k increase in the TFSA.

Under the current Harper government, the very foundations of Canadian democracy are at stake, something many Canadisns are not prepared to sacrifice regardless of personal gain.

#94 Victory on 09.13.15 at 6:33 pm

@#15 – Harpers generous to a fault

While I agree with some of what you’ve written, you really need to think some things through more carefully. Where do I start?

“The TFSA argument clearly shows the divide between the socialist and adult ideologies.”

Infantilizing all socialists to make a point does not make your point. We can argue the merits of capitalism and socialism in specific areas, but painting all socialists as babies ruins any credibility your argument may have. It’s you who needs to grow up, not some abstract group.

“Socialists hate any savings that can not be taxed immediately….even if it has already been taxed at source. The same socialist argument could be applied to people who have a king size bed opposed to a government mandated one size fits all. “

This is a non-sequitur (literally: does not follow). The second sentence does not follow logically from the first. I’m not sure at all what kind of argument you are trying to make here. It’s completely unclear.

“What Canadians want to is the security to know they can save for themselves with money they earn themselves….neither Liberal or NDP offers that utopia.”

In generally I think I agree with you here, although it really is a little much for you to claim that you know “what Canadians want”. Consider adding “I believe”, or “I am convinced”, to the beginning of your sentence.

“What is lost here is that the NDP and Liberal backers in union and civil service positions have no fear of the future as they have security that no Canadian shares …”

I might agree with this.

“and see no harm in beating down the rest…”

…but I definitely don’t agree with this. Most people I know who support unions would love for EVERYOBODY to have workplace and retirement security. People fought for unions for a reason. You are using loaded language (“beating down”) but you have no evidence to support this claim.

“while they feather their nests with luxury pensions lined with feathers plucked out of the taxpayers backs and live on wages , salaries and perks… “

more loaded language without any actual argument.

“And as we’ve seen in every recession…the civil service only grows while the private citizen is laid off.”

Is that the fault of the union? Or global corporations?

“Harpers extra debt was a product of pandering to the liberals and ndp during the great recession. “

No. You cannot blame the NDP or Liberals for Conservative decisions. Strong leaders don’t pander, they lead. If they are “pandering”, they have to own that.

I’d also like to comment on union-bashing in general. Who do you think you need to thank for workplace-safety rules, stat holidays, overtime pay, health care, retirement benefits, the weekend, etc. etc., etc.? Certainly NOT the capitalists! Unions aren’t perfect, and public-sector unions certainly have their problems. I’d be happy to talk about that. But bashing unions as a whole shows ignorance of history and lack of critical thinking.

Sorry to be so harsh, but your post was begging for it.

#95 sideline sitter on 09.13.15 at 6:33 pm

Harper has to go. He’s useless, he’s overly partisan, he thinks he’s always the smartest in the room, and thinks with his gut and not his brain.

Cons are done for a while… only the partisans are left, and there’s no one competent to replace Harper.

Happy to see him go, but disappointed if the NDP win.

I know a few people who volunteer for whatever NDP campaign is running, and they all think they should dictate what a business should pay their executives, who they also think add no value, and that the bottom rungs of the ladder do all the ‘real’ work and should make double.

It’s pathetic… uninformed, and dangerous.

‘honest pay for honest work’ is 1920s mentality. Time for them to wake up and see how business (and frankly how unions) are actually run.

#96 kommykim on 09.13.15 at 6:33 pm

RE:Now, for a 25-year old single person who decides to focus only on her TFSA, and is able to make the maximum contribution annually (no inflation adjustment)

This is where your analysis falls short. Before the CONs upped the TFSA limit to 10K, the annual TFSA limit was indexed to inflation and rounded to the nearest $500.
If you re-run the numbers with a 2-3% inflation adjusted annual limit going forward for a 25 year old today, then the contrast is nowhere near as extreme. But, somehow, I think you knew that.

#97 Hank Rearden on 09.13.15 at 6:37 pm

NDP + Liberal supporters – be careful what you wish for. Reminds me of a favourite quote – “Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods.” H. L. Mencken

#98 Andrew Woburn on 09.13.15 at 6:42 pm

It is hard to imagine a less likely place than Parksville-Qualicum to have trouble getting family doctors

“In a matter of two weeks, hundreds of people lost a family doctor here. July 31 was Dr. Marlene Van der Weyde’s last day as the only family physician at the Oceanside Health Centre’s primary care department. This coming Saturday, Dr. Vadula Jayaraman closes the doors of his practice in Qualicum Beach.

He had 1,500 patients.

These losses come in a region that was already starved for family doctors. It’s not a stretch to suggest thousands of people are without a family physician in this region.”

http://www.pqbnews.com/opinion/321768501.html

#99 kommykim on 09.13.15 at 6:44 pm

RE: #15 Harpers generous to a fault on 09.13.15 at 1:50 pm
union and civil service positions have no fear of the future as they have security that no Canadian shares and see no harm in beating down the rest…

Says the guy who then proceeds to beat down the unions and civil service in a fit of jealous rage.

#100 small minds on 09.13.15 at 6:48 pm

Everybody is expert in fighting about $5000 per year for individuals.

Nobody has the slightest idea how to convert the economy bigger, better that provides more than $5000 per year.

Kind of ridiculous. Truly small minded.

#101 Smoking Man on 09.13.15 at 6:53 pm

Seams some humans are figuring out the UCC

https://youtu.be/UfdIHVrJXJc

#102 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 6:56 pm

Promoting TFSA at this later phase of the game with the already high asset prices will only prop these prices for the benefit of the holders, the rich.

I don’t see any ‘growth’ coming out of nowhere any time soon here specially with these commodity prices.

The only ‘gain’ could be due to currency destruction. If the conservatives were thinking of our well being they would have not increased CMHC ‘insurance’ but rather would have wound down the whole Ponzi scheme.

#103 kommykim on 09.13.15 at 7:01 pm

Here’s a summary of what the 4 parties SAY they will do regarding the TFSA:

http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/tfsa/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-tax-free-savings-account-and-the-federal-election?__lsa=1943-013b

#104 Chancho on 09.13.15 at 7:04 pm

What about all the lost tax revenue via people renting out suites and rooms and not claiming the income? My assumption would be most listings on kijiji are going this route.

#105 Sergei on 09.13.15 at 7:05 pm

Re: #18
>…Of course one can still gradually transfer funds from RSPs into the TFSA, but even there one needs to be careful about the tax implications of taking too much out of the RSP in a given year, and there probably won’t be much left of those withdrawals after living expenses…

One’s leaving expenses could be coming from other sources including dividends from a non-registered account, TFSA itself, etc. The important thing is the contribution room.

I think the best, most fair formula for TFSA contribution room would be based on number of working years, similar to CPP, and the existing CPP mechanism could be used to manage. Even with $5K increments, at 19 one entitled for $5K, at 20 to $5K more and so on. So a today’s e.g. 52 year old could have (52-18)*5K = $170K contribution room. Otherwise the wrinkles miss the room for their working years “before TFSA”.

#106 Capt. Obvious on 09.13.15 at 7:06 pm

I don’t think there really is a good choice for this election. We’re really down to choosing between less bad options. While the TFSA point is definitely in the favor of the Conservatives, I can’t vote for them. Harper is everything wrong with the world in one man: not listening, breaking rules, brow beating people, pushing his own agenda, assuming scientists are out to get him.

#107 Kurt on 09.13.15 at 7:08 pm

“To finance that they’d raise taxes by 13% ” – please clarify, is that 13% or 13 percentage points (eg, from 10 to 11.3%, or from 10 to 23%). It makes a huge difference.

The increase from a 29% tax bracket to one of 33% is 13%. — Garth

#108 rwm on 09.13.15 at 7:10 pm

Interesting comparison. But how do the numbers look if you maintain the $10K savings rate with a rolled back TFSA? What you don’t mention is we can still utilize RRSP contribution room and/or non-registered investments. So the actual numbers aren’t as dramatic as you have outlined.

The TFSA numbers stated are correct. Obviously. — Garth

#109 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 7:14 pm

“…both the opposition parties would nix the current Harper plan to extend income-splitting to all families with stay-at-home moms….”

**********************

That accounts for approximately 27% of families.

#110 kommykim on 09.13.15 at 7:14 pm

RE: #75 Harbour on 09.13.15 at 5:43 pm
Can you claim a capital loss in a TFSA ?

No, and why would you need to? There are no capital GAINS to pay inside the TFSA container so what good would it do to carry forward capital losses in there?

#111 Lois on 09.13.15 at 7:15 pm

Approximately 45 percent of doctors are 55 years and older . When they start retiring and young ones head south our health care system will be in much more serious trouble. Should be some incentive to keep them motivated to work and take care of us not tax them to encourage less hours or retirement.

#112 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 7:19 pm

“Both argue this is somehow unfair because most Canadians cannot invest to the limit since they lack the money. They neglect to mention TFSA contributions are made from income that’s already been taxed…”

*****************

Canadians STILL don’t have the money to invest, after taxes.

#113 BS on 09.13.15 at 7:19 pm

Oh right. The investor class.
Who are the investor class again?
Oh right… the 1%.

Really anyone with half a brain with the slightest bit of self restraint not to blow every penny they earn within days of payday can make use of a TSFA.

#114 Rational Optimist on 09.13.15 at 7:19 pm

Great picture.

The rhetoric about the TFSA is bunk. In the UK election earlier this year, one of the issues was that the Conservatives had increased the limit for their TFSA equivalent- to 15,000 pounds.

Now there’s a good start. Roll it back? That makes no sense.

In the UK, they also have a “junior” version.

#115 Disingenuous on 09.13.15 at 7:21 pm

Garth,

Isn’t the following sentence a bit disingenuous?

“[TFSAs] unlike RRSPs, there is no reduction in tax or loss of direct federal revenue when the plan is used”

True, there is no reduction in income tax, but there is a loss in capital gains / interest tax that the government would make on investments held outside the TFSA (assuming that the $5K not invested in a TFSA is invested in a non-registered account in the same investment vehicle).

My statement is correct. No direct tax revenue is lost when a contribution is made. — Garth

#116 Sunmonkey on 09.13.15 at 7:22 pm

Orthopedic Surgeon average income based on CMA data:
Average gross clinical earnings in 2011/12 2011/12 (those earning at least $60,000) = $389,2682
Average percent overhead reported by all surgeons in
2010 = 28.4%
Deduct clinic earnings from overhead and you get $278715.88

https://www.cma.ca/Assets/assets-library/document/en/Specialties-Orthopedic-surgery-e.pdf

A more recent article from the Vancouver sun states that Orthopedic surgeons in BC collected an average of $316,340, less than the national average of $373,000. The report doesn’t include fees derived from non-publicly-insured procedures done in private clinics
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/01/22/what-doctors-in-b-c-and-canada-earn-what-your-doctor-makes/

#117 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 7:22 pm

“…would spend all of the $3 billion on cheap day care spaces, leaving nothing additional (except deficits) for infrastructure spending or keeping their promise of $36 billion more for the provinces for health care…”

****************

Brilliant…

We really DO need “none of the above” on the ballet.

#118 Tony on 09.13.15 at 7:23 pm

Re: #84 Michael on 09.13.15 at 6:01 pm

That will probably happen but it would be in their best interest to wait for real estate to correct first. Any guesses for the “valuation day”?

#119 KarenE on 09.13.15 at 7:24 pm

“Trudeau would roll the annual limit back to $5,000, and Mulcair to $5,500.”

No – the Liberals have confirmed that they will roll the limit back to $5500. (The $5000 figure was an error that we can probably blame on Peter Mansbridge.)

#120 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 7:26 pm

“A 25-year-old might not be able to use it now, but when she’s 40 all that room will be there to benefit from.”

*****************

Will the TFSA still be here…as is?

#121 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 7:29 pm

“Isn’t democracy wicked?”

****************

Yeah, it sure is. The politicians are so full of sh*t, their eyes are brown….

#122 Tony on 09.13.15 at 7:31 pm

Re: #4 Randy on 09.13.15 at 1:06 pm

They might bring in a dollar figure related to a lifetime exemption if you hold a principle residence for a given number of years. That would set the stage to diminish the lifetime amount in the future.

#123 Marco on 09.13.15 at 7:38 pm

@kommykim

Thanks for that link.

Does your party support a lifetime contribution limit to the TFSA?

Liberals: Do not intend to impose a lifetime limit on TFSA contributions.

NDP: We will be speaking more about details of our policy over the course of the campaign.

Conservatives: No answer.

Once again the Liberals are forthright, the NDP won’t indulge and the Coservatives are tongue tied.

Cheers.

#124 Tony on 09.13.15 at 7:41 pm

Re: #14 Fran on 09.13.15 at 1:49 pm

It’s as simple as anyone with money will always vote conservative.

#125 Daisy Mae on 09.13.15 at 7:41 pm

#6: “…in my view the Harper Conservatives have been involved in so many scandals that it is hard to vote for them. Rewarding bad behaviour etc. What do others think about this?”

*********************

Haven’t we had enuf of Harper?

#126 Sergei on 09.13.15 at 7:42 pm

>…Conservative ($10,000 max): $2,146,095 (growth is $1.7 million)
NDP ($5,500 max): $1,180,320 (growth is $954,000)
Liberal ($5,000 max): $1,073,047 (growth is $868,000).

Does Liberal’s numbers take in account the inflation indexing of the contribution room?

#127 Chris on 09.13.15 at 7:47 pm

#6 Of course those retirement scenarios look scary — Person A is investing twice as much money as the other two! If I was in Person C’s shoes, I’d be doing something with that extra $5000 besides apparently lighting it on fire.

#128 Drill Baby Drill on 09.13.15 at 7:55 pm

#6 & 106
Scandals ?? Duffy. Only in Canada can a payment of $90K for dubious expenses be classified as a major scandal. After 10 years this is all there is on the Cons?

We have had to put up with the $15 millions during Chretien’s Liberal ad scandal.

Those who think the Cons have been scandal plagued have very very short memories.

#129 Marco on 09.13.15 at 7:56 pm

@HellYeah

“Mr. Mulcair says he would repeal the legislation but has not specified what he would replace it with.
Mr. Easter says it’s well-known where Mr. Mulcair stands on the civil-liberties side of the bill but “where does he stand on the security side

The Liberals, says Mr. Easter, will amend the law to include oversight provisions; bring in sunset clauses on offensive parts of the bill; and put parameters on the sharing of certain data.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-c51-bill-liberals-ndp/article25410893/

Cheers.

#130 Andrew Woburn on 09.13.15 at 8:02 pm

#85 Freedom First on 09.13.15 at 6:05 pm

Here’s a suggestion. To help the working “poor” why don’t they raise the non-taxable income level to, say, $30,000 a year? After all, the working “poor” they supposedly want to help, by punishing the evil “rich”, are paying a disproportionate amount of their income on the basic necessities of life.
======================

The working poor actually pay a huge portion of total taxes? We think a household income around 60K is average but that likely consists of 40K plus 20K. There aren’t a lot of wealthy people, just a lot of people in debt.

#131 Mr.Hulot on 09.13.15 at 8:02 pm

Who cares about the Canadian elections? It’s a month away. More important to talk about the week ahead with the Fed meeting. it‘s shaping up to be the most volatile since 2008.

Hardly. Take a Valium. — Garth

#132 Retired Boomer - WI on 09.13.15 at 8:03 pm

What Government giveth (promised retirement) they CAN also taketh away.

How to protect yourself? Have some money, preferably in a TFSA vehicle, but an RRSP isn’t bad either (especially with a match, or when you have maxed your TFSA).

Demographics write history, and destiny. How many are AWARE of the numbers cascading through the retirement zone now, and in the near future? Do you believe government(s) will not cut back promises in some form?
Do you believe in Unicorns, unlimited debt, FREE anything without consequences as well?

WELL then….

#133 Dwilly on 09.13.15 at 8:05 pm

Honestly I thought I could expect a little better from this place, but the grandstanding and “stretching” of the very kind this author rails against on the part of others (RE agents) is tiresome.

Your numerical argument is misleading. The very same kind of “fuzzy math” the real estate agents use to claim a 78% annual return on a condo. In case I need to spell it out: You are ignoring the rest of the money in the Liberal & NDP case. Under the Liberal or NDP plan, nothing stops you from saving/investing 20k/yr. A more truthful/concrete example would be:
Conservative ($10,000 max): $2,146,095 (growth is $1.7 million) all in TFSA
NDP ($5,500 max): Total of about the same (very slightly less owing to annual tax burden) with $1,180,320 (growth is $954,000) in TFSA and the remainder in Unregistered. Yes, it’s is taxable later, but no doubt someone in a position such as this could afford the services of a person such as yourself to help minimize those taxes awfully well. I’m sure you’re very good at your job.
Liberal ($5,000 max): Similar

Look I am not saying they are equal (they aren’t), what I am saying is:
-The difference is WAY less significant than your poor example illustrates, and
-The benefit where those cases exist goes almost entirely to people earning in the top 10-20% (PBO says so, not me)

Since you are a smart person, and capable of pointing out this “flawed math” on the part of others, I have to assume that it was your intention in the example above to mislead. I just expected a little better, that’s all….

I’d offer a pithy comment if I had any idea what you are talking about. — Garth

#134 Mike T. on 09.13.15 at 8:06 pm

oh man

people still think elections matter?

hasn’t the last 100 years+ of this stuff taught any of you anything?

the lesson here is to learn not to empower others with your decision making

#135 SWL1976 on 09.13.15 at 8:08 pm

#128 Drill Baby Drill

Only in Canada can a payment of $90K for dubious expenses be classified as a major scandal. After 10 years this is all there is on the Cons?

Don’t kid yourself there Drill Baby Drill there are plenty of con scandals

How about those F35 fighter jets?

#136 fancy_pants on 09.13.15 at 8:10 pm

speaking of choices. how to make a bad one:
faulty elevators, falling concrete, mould and $2k per month condo fees. but of course it was a steal at the time. whoopsies

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/etobicoke-condo-owners-demand-justice-132404542.html

#137 Roland on 09.13.15 at 8:15 pm

TFSA contribution room is not really any more egalitarian than a RRSP.

People with lower incomes pay a higher share of that income for life’s necessities. They have less disposable income to stuff into a TFSA.

National median employment income is in the low 40’s. Simply put, most employed people in Canada will never be able to make much use of most of their available TFSA contriubtion room, esp. since housing, transportation and education costs are quite high in this country.

The recent increases to the TFSA ceiling were of no use whatsoever to the majority of Canadians. The ceiling rise was of use only to a relatively small minority of Canadians, who were already rather comfortably off and in no need of further public subsidies.

Note that I’m NOT saying that we should tax the bejesus out of our high-income people. I’m just saying that it is not in our national interest to subsidize our high-income people.

Remember: there is little practical distinction between a tax break and a subsidy. Every tax break is in effect a public subsidy.

Garth, while I agree that everyone should have a large element of their income future under their own control, nevertheless as a practical matter we must have large public pension schemes. Too much can go wrong in individual lives, so the public safety net must be there.

Unfortunately, there are no genuine fiscal conservatives on our political scene–or for that matter, anywhere in the developed world today.

#138 kommykim on 09.13.15 at 8:17 pm

RE:My statement is correct. No direct tax revenue is lost when a contribution is made. — Garth

I love the TFSA but the reality is that I have the same amount to invest every year no matter what the TFSA limit is.
This year I had 20K surplus cash.
10K went in the TFSA and 10K in the RRSP.
Therefore the current government only lost tax revenue on 10K (RRSP refund).
Now imagine if the TFSA limit was only 5K
Well, 5K would go in the TFSA and 15K in the RRSP.
Now the current government would lose tax revenue on 15K.
Effectively the CONs have pulled extra tax revenue from the future by increasing the TFSA limit. Crafty.

#139 Glen on 09.13.15 at 8:18 pm

Wonderful for a family earning the average 75,000K to dream of all that cash they would have if they could only find an extra 20K around.

Absurd Garth…and you know it.

Most do not max RRSP contributions, either, or RESPs for their kids. So, chop them all? — Garth

#140 Millmech on 09.13.15 at 8:20 pm

Garth,
Spoke with the local NDP candidate this weekend,was told that they are looking to go to means testing for all of Canada’s pension systems CPP and OAS included.I was told that their plan is that anything that you have as assets(investments/pension plans) will be taken into account when you go to collect your Canadian Pensions.Basically if you have more than $2000/mth in pensions or what they designate to be wealthy your SOL.

#141 Arch Douche on 09.13.15 at 8:24 pm

Off topic, but kind of sad when I watch retired general Rick Hillier on CBC, and the guy, in 5 minutes, appears a more accomplished leader than any of those running for Prime Minister today. The three candidates are lucky they all express a similar level of banality. It means they don’t look too bad against one another.

I’ll have to hold my nose and vote for the TFSA. Don’t like our aggressive foreign policy, and don’t like our environmental record, but the conservatives make more sense than the guy who wants to pay for everyone’s daycare, and another who’s position is entirely dependent on polling.

#142 BS on 09.13.15 at 8:24 pm

Don’t kid yourself there Drill Baby Drill there are plenty of con scandals
How about those F35 fighter jets?

Your comment just proved the point there have been few scandals.

Just because you do not agree with buying jets does not make it a scandal. You watch too much CBC.

#143 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 8:26 pm

#113 BS on 09.13.15 at 7:19 pm
Oh right. The investor class.
Who are the investor class again?
Oh right… the 1%.

Really anyone with half a brain with the slightest bit of self restraint not to blow every penny they earn within days of payday can make use of a TSFA.

//////////////////////////////
What is a TSFA?
A TAX SREE FAVINGS ACCOUNT …is this what you are proposing ?
I’m in!

#144 John on 09.13.15 at 8:26 pm

So….. the Fed raises the rates this week(?).. and what do might be the impact on the trends in Canada’s federal election, as various known unknowns start vortexing…? Humm Garth… any gems for us?

#145 lee on 09.13.15 at 8:28 pm

There are way more than 300000 one percenters if you add in the black market. Way more.

#146 MSM-Free Zone on 09.13.15 at 8:31 pm

#128 Drill Baby Drill on 09.13.15 at 7:55 pm
“….After 10 years this is all there is on the Cons?….Those who think the Cons have been scandal plagued have very very short memories….”
_________________________

Seems like you’re then one with the ‘very, very short memory’. Then again, ideology can sometimes blind clear thinking….

68. maintained an empty $180,000 ‘office of a corporate social responsibility counsellor’ with no counsellor,
69. defended $1.044 million Diane Finley misappropriation to a Jewish community centre,
70. defended $1.2 million Israel trip taxpayer spending,
71. defended $24 million taxpayer advertising campaign for Big Oil,
72. defended $28 million taxpayer spending on celebrating the war of 1812,
73. defended $50 million John Baird/Tony Clement gazebo scam,
74. defended $100 million Action Plan advertising scam,
75. doubled the 2015 election campaign to 77 days, increasing the taxpayer cost to $500 million,
76. defended his $1.2 billion G20 scam,
77. misplaced $3 billion and couldn’t account for it,
78. defended $126 billion F35 cost overrun scam,
79. ear-marked $13.4 million toward tax audits of opposition think tanks and charities,
80. spent $750 million of tax-payer dollars for partisan pre-election program advertising,
81. spent millions of tax-payer dollars advertising Action Plan jobs that didn’t exist

There are about 115 in total (yes, I’ve been taking notes), but…..I digress…..

#147 Drill Baby Drill on 09.13.15 at 8:31 pm

In 1993 the Liberal paid $500 million to cancel the $5.8 billion
acquisition of 43 EH-101 helicopters to replace the 1960s vintage Sea
Kings and the Labrador fleet.
Oh and let’s not forget the Liberals purchased 2 new Challenger jets to add to its political
fleet for $100 million at a time when the military is in desperate
need of Sea King replacements.

#148 sideline sitter on 09.13.15 at 8:40 pm

#128 – are you suggesting that this government is NOT scandal plagued?

#149 Suede on 09.13.15 at 8:41 pm

Conservatives would win another majority if they had a solid successor to Harper and he stepped down for this election.

Ppl hate Harper, not the Conservative ideas. Duh

Unless you are influenced by your Facebook feed and love Trudeau bc he did the grouse grind and mulcair bc he has a rad beard.

#150 common sense on 09.13.15 at 8:44 pm

#140 Millmech

Did you say means testing? it’s coming people big time by all parties…and you really want the gov’t to know everything you have invested to pay extra taxes?

I don’t mind paying my fair share but damm anyone if I am going to support anyone who made huge $$$ over their careers and blew it rather than sacrificing, saving and building their own nest egg…

Over my dead body….

#151 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 8:51 pm

I have lived in 5 different countries and visited many more.
The one constant in all of this that everywhere you go there are always people moaning about how wasteful governments are and how the cost of living is out of control and yet hardly anyone protests this .
We just go to work and suck it up giving them more money to waste.
It doesn’t make any sense but I am as guilty as the next person.
Opposition parties like to campaign on slogans like ” it’s time for change” but really they are all as bad as each other .
The system is broken…

#152 gut check on 09.13.15 at 8:51 pm

@ #85 Freedom First on 09.13.15 at 6:05 pm
Here’s a suggestion. To help the working “poor” why don’t they raise the non-taxable income level to, say, $30,000 a year?

—————————————–

best thing you’ve ever said.
I fully support this and cannot understand for the life of me why it hasn’t already been done. They’re all supposedly such geniuses with huge budgets to hire even more geniuses to study these matters and yet I don’t think I’ve ever heard this obvious solution made by any politician ever.

#153 Ralph Cramdown on 09.13.15 at 8:54 pm

#128 Drill Baby Drill — “We have had to put up with the $15 millions during Chretien’s Liberal ad scandal. Those who think the Cons have been scandal plagued have very very short memories.”

Those were the days, eh? When $15 million was a big deal at the federal level? Tony Clement blew $100 million and the government lied to parliament about the use of the funds, all to ensure his reelection in a single riding:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/gazebos-and-the-governing-morality/article626964/

But what irks me about this government is the cabinet. It’s huge, but I bet you can’t name more than 5 or 6 ministers with their current portfolios. And how many of them are competent? Any political junkie can tick off several incompetent ministers (Leona Aglukkaq, Gerry Ritz, Julian Fantino, Gordon O’Connor, Bev Oda).

Then there are the liars, one or two in particular. I’m thinking of a minister from the maritimes who, if he said it was sunny, you could be pretty sure it was raining. And he told great big whoppers, lies that even his own party’s partisans couldn’t even pretend to believe. My father says his father was a consummate political liar as well…

And I apologize in advance, this being a family blog and all, but a couple of Harper’s ministers were just… assholes. There’s really no more suitable word for them in the modern vernacular. Maybe they were nicer in real life, and felt that this was a role they had to play, but every time one of them stood up in question period, you could feel that 1,000 more Canadians became completely turned off politics, and 10 possible MP candidates crossed it off their bucket list. These people were toxic.

And the ministers without portfolio, but with staff, car and driver, and expense account. What did the ministers of Health, Environment or Intergovernmental Affairs actually DO in the Harper government?

Lest we forget, some of you who follow politics might have a few favourite Conservative backbenchers who never made cabinet. Cabinetmaking is tricky business, but there’s backbench MPs that nobody can say weren’t more deserving or competent than many of the clowns in the front row.

There were, of course, many clowns, crooks and liars in the cabinets of Pierre Trudeau, Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien and that other guy… But I can’t think of a worse ratio of quality to clowns than in Harper’s cabinets. It’s not even close. From the crooked timber of his cabinet, few straight things were made.

#154 Glen on 09.13.15 at 9:00 pm

Garth said:

Most do not max RRSP contributions, either, or RESPs for their kids. So, chop them all? — Garth

No…I actually am FOR any investment vehicle.

My point is that no matter how you slice it, the average Canadian family (earning 75K/yr) will be lucky to scrap together 10K-15K per year to invest. Period.

Whether that’s RRSP’s, TFSA or RESP’s

So Trudeau and Mulcair are actually deadly correct when they suggest the added TFSA room benefits primarily the wealthy.

If you can do than all the power to you in my opinion.

But that ability to save and then deduct tax free has to affect government coffers along the way…meaning that they have to find the revenue elsewhere.

And where do you suppose they might find that?

I’m willing to bet it’s all those 75K per year folks who will never enjoy the ability to take advantage of this lucrative opportunity.

I get that you are an ultra capitalist Garth and are of the mind that those who can take advantage earned that right…and those who are unable…well…they also earned their place in the financial world.

But you have suggested repeatedly that these families who earn 75K can and should find the 20K…and if the can’t then they must be financial spend thrifts dullards who deserve their plight.

I think that is categorically inaccurate….and demonstrably do.

You’ve also suggested that it doesn’t inequitably benefit the wealthy (and I’m not saying that’s necessarily wrong)…when again it demonstrably does favour the wealthy.

I think it’s pretty obvious.

Those were not my comments. Nor are you correct saying TFSA investors can deduct their returns. Try less emotion and more logic. — Garth

#155 SWL1976 on 09.13.15 at 9:00 pm

#142 BS

Just because you do not agree with buying jets does not make it a scandal. You watch too much CBC.

Yeah right, I watch too much CBC. That is the first and probably the last time I will ever hear that.

You obviously don’t know me very well

See 146 MSM-Free Zone for 68 thru 81

@Blobby – Good ear

#156 Figmund Sreaud on 09.13.15 at 9:00 pm

OK. Choices: … if you go along with ‘no change, steady as she goes’ Mr. Harper, … this will simply mean a very much a continuation of sociopathic politics created by sociopaths with the intention of prolonging sociopaths in power so the process of completely dismantling our Canada – as we know it, can be finally completed.

[You know, … promises made in the confined premises of the AEI can not be broken!]

Just sayin’, …

F.S. – Calgary, Alberta.

F.S.

#157 Nomad on 09.13.15 at 9:01 pm

Under Harper we saw:
– massive house inflation
– an economy focused on oil and housing

I want him out. At least Mulcair acknowledges the housing bubble.

I don’t care if I pay higher taxes…Anything that curbs the house bubble outweighs the pain of paying a few more thousands in taxes. Those of us making more than 89k will still live well and enjoy retirement.

…And I’ll sleep better knowing the new government sees house prices as inflated.

#158 saskatoon on 09.13.15 at 9:09 pm

#133 Dwilly

dwilly is metasnark.

#159 Harbour on 09.13.15 at 9:10 pm

#110 kommykim on 09.13.15 at 7:14 pm
RE: #75 Harbour on 09.13.15 at 5:43 pm
Can you claim a capital loss in a TFSA ?

No, and why would you need to? There are no capital GAINS to pay inside the TFSA container so what good would it do to carry forward capital losses in there?

//////////////////////////////////////

Exactly, therefore a TFSA means Jack to me until I’ve made back my quarter million in Capital Losses.

#160 common sense on 09.13.15 at 9:12 pm

#152 Gut Check and #85 Feeedom First (always?)

I agree with the $30K no tax rate BUT…

It should be applied to those not self employed only…

I’m self employed and with write offs would fall under the 30K bracket but in reality make much more…

I’ll pay my fair share but not for those who are means tested ONLY IF they can test their life time earnings (impossible) and determine if they were financially prudent.

#161 nnso on 09.13.15 at 9:15 pm

I consider the surgeons are the real health care Doctors. Most of them work at the hospital burning mid night oil. The family physicians are actually pharmaceutical salesman. They do not heal our diseases. They teach us how to live with a diseases. Many of the family physicians set up medical labs for their brother in laws then prescribe unnecessary xrays and ultrasounds. They are milking the provincial health care system.

#162 Bottoms_Up on 09.13.15 at 9:16 pm

If revenue isn’t lost by people using their TFSA, why is there a cap?

#163 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 9:16 pm

No money and no retirement

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canadian-workers-pessimistic-future-expect-longer-payroll-survey-080010734.html

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/household-debt-ratio-grew-q2-debt-increased-faster-125803363.html

more debt.

read the comments

Thank you Harper.

#164 BS on 09.13.15 at 9:19 pm

145, 153

All those points pale in comparison to past Liberal governments and would be rounding errors compared to the financial damage the Liberals or NDP would do if elected this election. ALL governments are wasteful. The best government is a small government.

#165 Dee on 09.13.15 at 9:27 pm

“If you just want change, without more tax or more government, you have a problem.”

Thank you, Garth. This is exactly how I feel.

And even if I decide I don’t need change, well, Andrew Coyne had a brilliant piece in the Citizen about how this Conservative government has been anything but small-c conservative: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Array/11351531/story.html

Seems like we lose no matter what. Yaaaaaay.

#166 Moses71 on 09.13.15 at 9:27 pm

#3
What are you looking for? The Holy Grail?
He’s giving it away for free!
Tough crowd tonight, Garth
Happy you’re not charging us, cuz most couldn’t afford you. Otherwise we’d be amongst the elite clientele
Think I’ll just stick to your cult blog

#167 Country Girl on 09.13.15 at 9:28 pm

Trans Pacific Partnership Free Trade, environment and Bill C51 are much more important issues than TFSA, not just for us but for generations to come.

#168 OXI in GREECE !! on 09.13.15 at 9:35 pm

#46 BS on 09.13.15 at 3:46 pm
By the way, about one-third of all those higher-income earners are doctors, who make an average of $328,000. If your community is lacking in medical care, don’t expect that taxing them more will make it a whole lot better.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It would be interesting to know how "many" of the so called 1% in Canada are Public Sector works as they should not count. This would be because they are paid with tax dollars and provide no money to the countries GDP. They are just circle jerking existing tax dollars.

#169 common sense on 09.13.15 at 9:35 pm

#163 Shane

No Harper fan but no one put a gun to anyone’s head for them to buy a house or to make choices to make them go deeper in debt unless they had an emergency….. aka 95% of the developed world.

#170 Love my Kia on 09.13.15 at 9:36 pm

#16 Linda
************************************
I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK.

#171 Gregor Samsa on 09.13.15 at 9:37 pm

In order to vote for Harper, you just have to not give a damn about any of the following:

– Democracy (under constant attack by Harper).
– Accountability (Harper answers only 5 questions a day, his candidates, none).
– Good government (Have you seen the people running for election under the CPC banner? Scary barely begins to describe it).
– Canada’s standing in the world (falling).
– Economic growth (falling, with no recovery in sight due to bad economic policy from Harper).
– Public service morale and efficiency (falling).
– Canada’s military (crumbling – the Navy in particular is suffering big time).
– Affordable housing (never forgot who’s policies got us to where we are today).
– Debt and deficits (Harper holds the record for largest deficit in history, and has never balanced a budget).

The Liberal position on these items is that Harper has broken them so badly, it will take a few deficit years to fix everything. They look at a reckless, un-costed policy like doubling the TFSA in a single year and say “we can’t afford it.” A realistic stance if you ask me.

Also, a person might look at the above list, weigh it against the tax savings he will get from a bigger TFSA, and realize that in the grand scheme of things, more Harper government will cost him far more than that.

#172 raider on 09.13.15 at 9:39 pm

Was lecturing some Canadians on social media on why to elect conservatives. Here a lecture from the good old days, this won’t end well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_q_Y0U1QcI

#173 Glen on 09.13.15 at 9:42 pm

My post seemed to disappear? I did have some spelling errors in there so I’ll repost it so that it reads a little better :)

Garth said:

Most do not max RRSP contributions, either, or RESPs for their kids. So, chop them all? — Garth

No…I actually am FOR any investment vehicle.

My point is that no matter how you slice it, the average Canadian family (earning 75K/yr) will be lucky to scrap together 10K-15K per year to invest let alone 20K. Period.

Whether that’s RRSP’s, TFSA or RESP’s

So Trudeau and Mulcair are actually correct when they suggest the added TFSA room benefits primarily the wealthy.

If you can manage the 20K than all the power to you in my opinion.

But that ability to save and then deduct tax free has to affect government coffers along the way…meaning that they have to find the revenue elsewhere.

And where do you suppose they might find that?

I’m willing to bet it’s from all those 75K per year folks who will never enjoy the ability to take advantage of this lucrative opportunity.

I get that you are an ultra capitalist Garth and are of the mind that those who can take advantage earned that right…and those who are unable…well…they also earned their place in the financial world.

But you have suggested repeatedly that these families who earn 75K can and should find the 20K…and if the can’t then they must be financial spend thrift dullards who deserve their plight.

I think that is categorically inaccurate….and demonstrably so.

You’ve also suggested that it doesn’t inequitably benefit the wealthy. When again… it demonstrably does favour the wealthy.

I think it’s pretty obvious.

#174 Glen on 09.13.15 at 9:44 pm

Oops…was posted. My error and aplogies

#175 Boombust on 09.13.15 at 9:45 pm

Garth,

If I didn’t vote Liberal OR the NDP in the upcoming election, I’d be left with Harper and his Cons?

Some choice.

Pppphhffttt!

NDP it is.

#176 Glen on 09.13.15 at 9:48 pm

Garth said:

Those were not my comments. Nor are you correct saying TFSA investors can deduct their returns. Try less emotion and more logic. — Garth

No, I did not mean they can deduct their returns. What I mean is that all that cash that goes untaxed means the government will not benefit from the tax revenue.

Meaning that any governing party is going to have to find revenue in some other way.

It’s simple economics.

And I speculate that it’s likely to come from Joe middle class (75K/yr family).

Could be wrong.

However, the TFSA benefits the wealthy…as Trudeau and Mulcair suggest.

Wrong. A TFSA benefits anyone who invests in one, instead of a trip to Disneyland or a condo they could rent for half the monthly overhead. Choices. — Garth

#177 Shaken Stirred on 09.13.15 at 9:54 pm

#94 Victory

“Infantilizing all socialists to make a point does not make your point. We can argue the merits of capitalism and socialism in specific areas, but painting all socialists as babies ruins any credibility your argument may have. It’s you who needs to grow up, not some abstract group. ”

Let me remind you of what a personage far above your ability said about socialists being infantile….Winston Churchill.

“If you’re not a socialist at 20…you have no heart. If you’re still a socialist at 30…you have no brain”.

The rest of you’re knee jerk response in support of unions was equally as infantile as your disrespect of adulthood.

How about Dame Thatchers clear wisdom on socialism.

“The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money”.

#178 Big feet on 09.13.15 at 9:55 pm

I do not care con scandals, to look into the big picture, I want canada remain old canada.

People, do not forget what is toronto 18, who killed two soldiers on Canadian soil, boston bombing is done by whom? Who is holding the ground to make sure our country is secure?

I have to vote conservative, not because how great they are, but because the other threes want to wide open the door….

I am no religious, and I am happy to say. Merry Christmas

#179 Gogo on 09.13.15 at 9:55 pm

Garth when you compare anything to USA in doctors, keep in mind that a normal birth in the USA costs 15-20,000USD. How normal is that? An orthopedic surgeon in Germany makes about 8000 EUR per month. Salaries of protected professions are out of wack.

Births cost the same here, of course. — Garth

#180 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 9:56 pm

#169 common sense

Housing and debt as well as financial gambling are addictions. Guys that facilitate it are like drug dealers.

Do you believe that drug dealers are not guilty when selling drugs to the drug addicts?

The guy openly stated that he supports and encourages higher values of house prices, he said it bluntly and straight. That means less savings, more debt, capital mis-allocation, worse jobs for our kids.

#181 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 9:57 pm

higher house prices damn it.

#182 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 10:01 pm

#167 Country Girl

Trans Pacific Partnership Free Trade as well as the trans Atlantic one with the loew commodity prices will kill the jobs, only the wheat industry would thrive.

We are fare worse in technology perspective from Europe and US and far more expensive as labour than Chile and Mexico.

#183 Shaken Stirred on 09.13.15 at 10:02 pm

And BTW…Praise our PM for his adult calm and clarity on what is best for Canada. In the face of childish criticism he has saved Canada from a fate that has, as of today, broken Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232744/We-t-German-authorities-call-urgent-action-migrant-crisis-locals-say-Munich-brink-humanitarian-disaster.html

The liberals and bleeding hearts got their way….for a time….until reality smacked them in the face….quite possibly too late to save the citizens from ruin.

Maggie Thatcher was right….socialists run out of other peoples money to spend. Only a child would do what the EU liberals have done. But the question is…will our liberals apologize to PM Harper and thank him for saving us from the same fate?

#184 Ralph Cramdown on 09.13.15 at 10:05 pm

#88 Drill Baby Drill — “[Harper wins a minority]… This will mean Harper will have to play nice in the sandbox with either the Son of Trudeau or the commies in order to pass money bills. Since Harper detest anything Trudeau then the gov’t falls first chance it gets and we all head back for a Christmas election.”

Do you really think the Governor General would approve another election immediately if Trudeau and Mulcair advised him that they had a working coalition willing to form a government, and commanding the confidence of the House?

I see an unintended result of this superextended campaign period: Liberals’ and NDP’s coffers, donors and volunteers will be exhausted, requiring a long rebuild until the next election. Assuming no party wins a majority (or close enough that floor crossing or the Green(s?) become a factor), I foresee a loooong Liberal/NDP governing détente or coalition, either unofficial or official. Meanwhile, the Conservatives will be picking a new leader.

Things could change between now and election day, though.

#185 Daniel on 09.13.15 at 10:09 pm

Interesting … only the tip of the iceberg I’m guessing…

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/etobicoke-condo-owners-demand-justice-132404542.html

#186 Smoking Man on 09.13.15 at 10:15 pm

Watching adventure moves all day..

Why is the hero, the rebal, they dude who gets revenge always have black hair, two days of five o clock shadow.

The villain, always fair haired.

Is their a subliminal message, a phyop at play..

Dr Smoking Man, always showing the obvious to the oblivious..

#187 Ralph Cramdown on 09.13.15 at 10:17 pm

#173 Glen — “My point is that no matter how you slice it, the average Canadian family (earning 75K/yr) will be lucky to scrap together 10K-15K per year to invest let alone 20K. Period.”

It’s not luck. It’s sacrifice, frugality and delayed gratification. This is a finance blog, so there’s likely to be many people here who’ve done it and don’t consider luck to have played much of a role. 30% of this blog’s readers change their own brake pads!

I agree that the majority of families at that income level won’t save that much, essentially by choice (though they won’t see it that way of course). Harper’s mistake was assuming his opponents wouldn’t capitalize on this fact to deride his major election plank as mainly benefiting the rich at the expense of the broad middle class. Any decent political strategist should have seen that a mile away.

#188 common sense on 09.13.15 at 10:22 pm

Shaene #179 (sorry for spelling your name wrong last post!)

All developed world leaders are guilty of wanting anything going “UP” to make them look good…

As for drug dealers selling to addicts, in a perfect world in which we do not live, they shouldn’t but usually do with the justification if they are addicts they are just going to buy it elsewhere..aka 2nd lenders, etc.

I don’t say it’s right. It just IS usually… Harper, The FED, China now…etc.

I’m 54 and guess I’m just a tad jaded let’s say when I see the BS going on and on and on and on…

#189 senta on 09.13.15 at 10:24 pm

(corrected version)
What about a regressive TFSA – i.e. more TFSA room for lower income and less for higher income i.e. start with 10 K for income of upto 100K, 9K for 110K income with 0 for 200K +.

This is the reverse of RRSP contribution room.

#190 a question on 09.13.15 at 10:25 pm

How would future tfsa amounts effect scaling back of oas or gis for that matter ???????????????

#191 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 10:26 pm

#185 Daniel

2000 $ in monthly condo fees besides property taxes and mortgage?

Wow, I mean WOW!
renting would be half of the total cost. Or less.

But hey, the party in power will work on increasing the (negative) value of their condos.

#192 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 10:29 pm

Wrong. A TFSA benefits anyone who invests in one, instead of a trip to Disneyland or a condo they could rent for half the monthly overhead. Choices. — Garth

————————————-
I plan on doing a little bit of both,maxing out my tfsa no matter what the limit is and then going for a budget holiday with the rest.
It helps me sleep at night to know I am trying to be responsible for my future as well as having a bit of fun and living a little today.
Everything in moderation …

#193 John in Mtl on 09.13.15 at 10:31 pm

#161 nnso on 09.13.15 at 9:15 pm

I consider the surgeons are the real health care Doctors. Most of them work at the hospital burning mid night oil. The family physicians are actually pharmaceutical salesman. They do not heal our diseases. They teach us how to live with a diseases. Many of the family physicians set up medical labs for their brother in laws then prescribe unnecessary xrays and ultrasounds. They are milking the provincial health care system.

In all fairness, please don’t put every GP in the same basket. I have known 3 fantastic GP’s including my current one, that genuinely care about your health and take the time to explain and educate you on health matters, life habits, good and not-so-good Big-Pharma pharmacopeia, etc. Most are honest and hard working, they deserve their paycheck just as much as the systems analyst and the plumber.

The GP’s are on the front line, the foot soldiers of healthcare, the one professional every one depends on to find out what’s wrong when you are sick or no well. The surgeon is no more, no less important than the GP, the lab tech, the radiologist. Not all of them are Big-Pharma salesmen. Have some perspective and respect!

#194 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 10:32 pm

#183 Shaken Stirred

You are complete idiot. With the migrants crisis Europe is paying the bill for the crises in Libya and Syria that were caused by we know who, as a puppet our PM is also responsible for that.

Why are the migrants are not coming here but instead going to socialist Europe?

I pray the Europeans come to their senses and that quick before a new Hitler arises.

#195 Smoking Man on 09.13.15 at 10:33 pm

Politicians are all place holders for the machine..

Don’t matter who gets elected. Machine has it all fugured out..

Now when one sneeks through the cracks, the spot checks..actually someone who really gives a shit..

Thinking of an acronym for this type of politicians.

A few words come to mind, naive, a fool, a greater fool.

Damn, UCC says go with the word.

Gartho..!!!!!!

We all know how that worked out…

#196 John in Mtl on 09.13.15 at 10:35 pm

#167 Country Girl on 09.13.15 at 9:28 pm

Trans Pacific Partnership Free Trade, environment and Bill C51 are much more important issues than TFSA, not just for us but for generations to come.

Totally agree. Those are some of the issues the current and aspiring candidates should be talking about – much bigger long-term impacts.

#197 Doug in London on 09.13.15 at 10:36 pm

@Capt. Obvious, post #106:
My thoughts exactly. I’ll GLADLY sacrifice extra contributions to my TFSA to get rid of Harper, something that should have happened eons ago. I still get other tax breaks on my other investments outside a TFSA, like the dividend tax credit, but even if I didn’t it would still be well worth it to get rid of Harper.

#198 Transplant on 09.13.15 at 10:37 pm

#161 nnso

I consider the surgeons are the real health care Doctors. Most of them work at the hospital burning mid night oil. The family physicians are actually pharmaceutical salesman. They do not heal our diseases. They teach us how to live with a diseases. Many of the family physicians set up medical labs for their brother in laws then prescribe unnecessary xrays and ultrasounds. They are milking the provincial health care system.

My goodness, I wonder what I was thinking all those 41 years in family/general practice working 80 hour weeks until my last 3 years when I cut back to 60 hours, making hospital rounds twice a day, visiting nursing homes, delivering babies, assisting in surgery, going to work at 6 AM and getting home at 8 pm, taking call every 4th night, holiday and weekend (for free unless I had to go to the hospital (for which I was paid the same amount whether it was 3 AM Christmas morning or 2 PM Tuesday), making nursing home rounds on Saturdays, going to the ER when called (no full-time ER docs in the earlier days), even house calls and so on. Also working extra time on returning from vacation as payback for coverage while I was away.

All the while paying for my own insurance, funding my own pension plan, paying office expenses while I was away (of course during that time the income stream dropped to zero), taking time off for continuing education, employing staff and paying them good wages, providing them with health insurance and participation in a pension plan. I made a good, but not outstanding living, but worked my butt off in a very demanding job. By the way, my pension plan was funded by the hours I worked outside of office hours. If I had just worked a 40 hour week in the office I would have been better off working in an auto plant with better hours and benefits, notwithstanding the fact that I could have started work a few years earlier than I did.

I suppose you think I also knew how to cure cancer but withheld the magic bullet because it kept my income stream going. By the way, when you go to the ER with your heart attack at 2 AM be sure to ask for a good general surgeon, and when he asks tell him he can find your heart somewhere superior to your liver above the diaphragm.

I am thankful that I had the opportunity to have worked in a profession where the overwhelming majority of the patients were really good folks who appreciated what I and my healthcare colleagues did for them, but we did encounter the odd brainless twit.

I headed South of the border after practicing several years in my home town. The prospect of earning a higher income did not factor into my decision, but one straw that broke the camel’s back was the relentless ass-kicking from the media about how rich doctors were. The final stimulus was PET going on TV after the federal election (?1976) in which he campaigned opposing wage and price controls which formed the main plank of Bob Stanfield’s platform. Why was he on TV just a couple of weeks after being elected? To announce the immediate imposition of wage and price controls of course. So nothing changes-just a bunch of leeches pandering to the populace. Be careful of what you wish for, “anybody but X” is not a good idea. We tried it once and got Jimmy Carter, a fine man on a personal level, but a weak-willed, misguided, ineffective president.

And you can be sure that highly-trained professionals will head to greener pastures if they think they are being screwed-over, especially if the public slurs and ass-kicking continue. It’s not necessarily just about money.

#199 common sense on 09.13.15 at 10:38 pm

Funny money story..

My daughter who is 16 took a business class last year where the kids had to develop a budget for living as a student in Toronto for one year…

33 were over budget by roughly 30-50% monthly, my daughter actually came in under budget by 20% by sharing an apt instead of renting one solo, taking the TTC vs owning a car, shopping Thrift shops for clothes, etc only when needed vs buying new, etc,etc…

The teacher actually looked at her like she was nuts and asked her how she learned so much (M would love this i am sure). And my ex wife was always complaining I was talking about money to her when she was too young….

See Shaene, she was 1 of 34 and she started learning bout money at age 3. I had to learn the hard way and was basically self taught.

Likely Harper was one of the majority, thus this is all he knows….Trudeau had it handed to him like his dad did. Mulclair? No idea…

#200 Country Girl on 09.13.15 at 10:42 pm

Why Canadians can’t afford the $10,000/yr TFSA limit:

“A report from the Parliamentary Budget Officer this week says the federal government would lose $14.7-billion a year in revenue by 2060 and the provinces would lose $7.6-billion a year. That’s a tremendous amount of money to forgo in a country with a population aging as quickly as ours.

Excerpt from a Globe and Mail article, “Why we can’t afford to raise the TFSA limit” by Rob Carrick, Feb. 25, 2015

http://tinyurl.com/pgzcztr

That is 45 years away – lots of time to make people less independent and government wealthier. Noble goals. — Garth

#201 Country Girl on 09.13.15 at 10:46 pm

#182 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 10:01 pm

That’s exactly why we need competent leaders to negotiate any participation by Canada in TPP.

#202 Nemesis on 09.13.15 at 10:50 pm

“Isn’t democracy wicked?” – HonGT

#Choices?… #Let’sDance… #RetroFunForPsephologicalDogs… #&OntologicallyReFlexive… #It’sAParable

https://youtu.be/sRrSwLHyxGc

[NoteToGT: I always thought that was one of my better ones…]

#203 Arch Douche on 09.13.15 at 10:50 pm

I find it ironic that many of the very people who frequent a blog that espouses financial personal responsibility and think that voting for an NDP government is a good idea.

The NDP would benefit most, those who display neither responsibility or accountability in their personal affairs. That’s their base.

#204 Nora Lenderby on 09.13.15 at 11:00 pm

#45 Smoking Man on 09.13.15 at 3:43 pm
Wow , Even Conrad Black throws Harpo under the bus..

Sigh, poor Mr. Black. I shouldn’t have read that incoherent article. What a waste of a brilliant mind. Now I feel sorry for him, too.

#165 Dee on 09.13.15 at 9:27 pm
And even if I decide I don’t need change, well, Andrew Coyne had a brilliant piece in the Citizen

Sad indeed. Right now it looks like a sorry grind for the next month. Poor Mr. H. :-)

Let’s hope he can figure out a glamorous new persona in time to get more votes. Tights, mask and a cape? Tightrope? Ventriloquism?

#205 Millmech on 09.13.15 at 11:03 pm

The problem Gut Check(150) is that by sacrificing now I get the sand in the Vaseline later.So why try to get ahead,just to be punished,like my Dad said when in the care home and paying $3000.00/mth more than my best friends Dad”should have had more fun than trying to prepare for a future screwing.

#206 Chancho on 09.13.15 at 11:03 pm

Just cause you can’t max out your TFSA today, doesn’t mean you won’t be able to in the future. Some people come into money from an inheritance or sale of a business or home etc.

My parents had decent paying jobs while i was growing up but we were typical middle class. We went on 1 true vacation when i was around 8 years old to the states, other than that it was all local camping or visiting relatives. I’m sure they wouldn’t have had any extra money to stash away in a TFSA if there was one around then.

Since then my mother inherited farm land in Sask and my father an oceanfront property on Vancouver Island. So there’s one example for you blog dogs

#207 Leo Trollstoy on 09.13.15 at 11:04 pm

#188 Country Girl on 09.13.15 at 10:42 pm

How would the government lose money? TFSA money is already taxed. And the number of people who hold assets with capital gain potential is almost nobody.

#208 Sasquatch on 09.13.15 at 11:04 pm

This is kinda funny, because Harper said he wouldn’t tax GICs that old folks were using for retirement when he first ran for PM. The first thing he did was tax GICs. history repeats I guess.

Income trusts. — Garth

#209 Hawk on 09.13.15 at 11:21 pm

#81 HellYeah on 09.13.15 at 5:55 pm

=================

Excellent point Bill C51 is discriminatory in nature

#210 kommykim on 09.13.15 at 11:26 pm

RE: #207 Leo Trollstoy on 09.13.15 at 11:04 pm
#188 Country Girl on 09.13.15 at 10:42 pm
How would the government lose money? TFSA money is already taxed.

TFSAs take money away from RRSPs which effectively pulls future tax revenue back into the present:

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2015/09/13/choices-11/comment-page-3/#comment-396707

#211 T.C. on 09.13.15 at 11:28 pm

From its inception I have been contributing to both a TFSA and RSP to the tune of about $8,000 a year on a 40 to 45 k annual salary. So $10,000/yr TFSA contribution is doable – it just depends on how much I want to cut back. Additonally I also have investments outside my TFSA which add to my yearly income. These pay the rent on my apartment and top-off the TFSA contributions (and soaks up that interest-free loan to the govt. that gets taken off my paycheques as “income tax”). The only hitch is dealing with good vs. lean years. Right now my TFSA is at a point where it makes your estimation – based on 7% annual return for $10K contribution – look sadly anemic. The NDP and Liberals can go stuff themselves. I’ll stick with the Conservatives. I can retire sooner.

#212 Smoking Man on 09.13.15 at 11:30 pm

Technology , ripped from Aliens, is here.

Everyone one of you, right now can have a personal flyer, zero g. 90 degree trurns at light speed.

The machine , the 12 pricks that run the word, making you flip burger’s.

No need for airline’s, oil, gas, cho cho trains. And auto mobiles.

Shit load of trillions in that model, but they oun the msm, the banks, the individual, education, military industry complex.

Only way I can enlighten, without suicide , three shots to the head.

You do it though fiction, prentending to be insane.

You just might pull it off.

My book rocks…..

#213 Ralph Cramdown on 09.13.15 at 11:43 pm

#198 Transplant — “Be careful of what you wish for, “anybody but X” is not a good idea. We tried it once and got Jimmy Carter, a fine man on a personal level, but a weak-willed, misguided, ineffective president.”

As contrasted with Gerry Ford??

Anyway, the United States got its ‘Anybody but X’ (by a funny coincidence, somebody here recently posted a video of Mr. Peanut running for political office, monocle and all…) but would go on to get its ‘X’, too…

Gerry Ford’s Chief of Staff (and presidential campaign manager) was Dick Cheney. His Secretary of Defense was Donald Rumsfeld. His Director of Central Intelligence was George H.W. Bush. (any of these names starting to sound familiar?) Iran was our friend and ally, though inflation and defense spending were killing its domestic economy. Saudi Arabia was on the outs.

We all suffered through a second Ford presidency, but 24 years later with a different figurehead sitting in the big chair.

#214 604renter on 09.13.15 at 11:46 pm

9600 more for those making 200 000 and up? As a physician let me say:

4 years undergrad
2 years research
4 years medical school
5 years residency

150 000 plus in debt
no pension.
No vacation
Huge politics
daily frustration
ridiculous hours

I still choose Canada

And now 9600 dollars more. Balls to the whole lot of you

#215 For those about to flop... on 09.13.15 at 11:48 pm

#166 Moses71 on 09.13.15 at 9:27 pm
#3
What are you looking for? The Holy Grail?
He’s giving it away for free!
Tough crowd tonight, Garth
Happy you’re not charging us, cuz most couldn’t afford you. Otherwise we’d be amongst the elite clientele
Think I’ll just stick to your cult blog

——————————-
Opps sorry didn’t realize that was directed at me
Calm down Moses I have been joking with Garth as the last two Sunday’s he called his posts ” lessons” .
Look at the recent post titles and try to keep up will ya!
The Guy knows I am grateful for his help and explanations and heavens forbid if someone successful actually had a sense of humour .
All work no play makes for a dull life…

#216 will on 09.13.15 at 11:51 pm

obviously cant argue with your math garth, but harper has to go. i’m voting on foreign policy and hair. harper has the worst of both. mulcair says no to middle east bombing and won’t kill the tfsa altogether. he has the best beard. btw all the candidates (not sure about harper) are pro-business.

#217 will on 09.13.15 at 11:54 pm

#208.

harper lied about the income trusts very clearly. he lied then and he is lying now. there is no reason to trust him on anything.

#218 Mister Obvious on 09.13.15 at 11:54 pm

#22 Brian Ripley

“Imagine a “sharing economy” without ANY taxes, only a micro-fee on transactions!”
———————

And micro-jobs for all!

#219 will on 09.14.15 at 12:06 am

no party is going to kill the tfsa. Garth, the tfsa is to your credit. the increase to ten thousand was not your idea. Are you really opposed to a reduction to your original proposal?

#220 jane 24 on 09.14.15 at 12:10 am

What socialist govts like Canada don’t understand is that in today’s global world, people and jobs can move anywhere the tax situation is better. In the 1970’s it was hard to move a factory, today it is easy to change your business internet address or have Chinese produced goods delivered anywhere.

It is not possible for Canada to financially survive if it remains on its high tax route with the USA on a low tax path. Business won’t see the point of Canada.

A few years back the President of France, a screaming socialist tried to impose income taxes of 75% on the higher paid. These targetted people all moved their addresses to London and he had to drop the idea. This is how global business works and you can’t turn the clock back.

#221 Great Canadian Bubble Co. on 09.14.15 at 12:19 am

The problem for many (especially in the under 35) is that ‘saving’ anything at the end of the month/year is so far removed from their experience that the TFSA argument you make (while completely valid) has little real meaning to them. From my conversation with Millennials, they are looking for jobs that are reliable, steady, and have the chance for growth. Without that, the arguments you are making are falling on deaf ears of the young’ns

#222 millenial1982 on 09.14.15 at 12:28 am

Sadly the statistics mean nothing because they will cry they can’t save that much to begin with. Too spoiled. People need to get comfortable not having instant gratification for things they truly can’t afford and embrace it. Get hard working, independant, handy, entrepreneurial, whatever. It’s not that hard. Arnie said it best you have to stay hungry. Canadians sadly are just too bloated and full of toys and real estate.

#223 ozy: WHAT A JOKE!!! on 09.14.15 at 12:31 am

YES. YES AND YES!

We all -no need to ask- we all think wealthy people should pay dearly for their “success”, employers should embrace lower than super-fat profits and doctors less of the undeserved compensation!!!

Most of them haven’t made the money clean and if you really care (do you?) just go AUDIT their books for past 25 years.

Might need to built a whole lot more prisons! And a new monastery – for the few saints….

#224 Night cribed on 09.14.15 at 1:01 am

There are so many doctors who are washing dishes would finally be able to fill the gap on the off chmaces there is mass movement.

#225 Jeff on 09.14.15 at 1:05 am

Looks like supply of doctors in Canada is healthy. 178 unemployed orthopods. Doesn’t supply/demand dictate salaries?

http://news.nationalpost.com/health/untrained-and-unemployed-medical-schools-churning-out-doctors-who-cant-find-residencies-and-full-time-positions

#226 Hamcouver on 09.14.15 at 1:06 am

#16 Linda- well said
#167 Hear hear
I am a salaried specialist physician. My taxes may well be higher with Libs or NDP but we are voting for the future of this country, for a leader we can be proud of on an international stage, for the safety of personal integrity and free speech, for a measured and thoughtful response to international crises….not just for our own personal wealth. At least I hope that’s what a true democracy means.
Plus – doctors salaries are not the problem…it’s the cost of living here in BC which is out of control, particularly due to the housing bubble. Renting is a pain but a smart financial decision here.

#227 Rich Young on 09.14.15 at 1:53 am

Good luck getting 7% return on investment without risking your whole principal. You will need a lot of luck as the global economy is going to poop. Your money is safe if you are willing to take 1% return these days. Policy discriminates against the saver/investor. It fully favours those who pile on debt. It pisses me off, but that is the way it is and will be for some time.

Cheers!

#228 BC Guy on 09.14.15 at 2:31 am

I’m voting NDP for many, many reasons.

But the best reason is so Mulcair and the rest of Canadians can say:

“Stephen Harper ………. You’re FIRED!”

#229 Freedom First on 09.14.15 at 2:40 am

#186 Smoking Man

Agreed. Just like in real life the biggest liars robbers and thieves wear suits and ties.

#230 Waterloo Resident on 09.14.15 at 2:40 am

Oh oh, this is going to be the real tipping stone to drastically higher interest rates in the U.S.

Never mind what the FED has in plan for rates going up 0.25% at a time, if this is true then U.S. mortgage rates just might have a massive jump more like 2 or 3% in store for it over the next few months. And if Canada’s rates follow the U.S., then our rates might be going up 2 to 3% before Christmas.

Here’s the name of the story: “China is dumping U.S. debt ” (Sept 10, 2015).

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/10/investing/china-dumping-us-debt/index.html?section=money_topstories

Quote: ” The selling and the potential that China will not be buying U.S. debt in the near future raises questions on its potential to increase America’s borrowing costs.
Some of this might already be happening, at least at a small scale. When stock markets are turbulent, investors usually rush to the safety of U.S. Treasurys and yields fall. However, despite August’s extreme stock volatility, rates on Treasurys actually rose slightly in late August. “

#231 Shaken Stirred on 09.14.15 at 2:56 am

Shawn Wallace…..how does someone with a Scots name write with such bad ESL grammar? Are you drinking Russian vodka?

“#183 Shaken Stirred

You are complete idiot. With the migrants crisis Europe is paying the bill for the crises in Libya and Syria that were caused by we know who, as a puppet our PM is also responsible for that.

Why are the migrants are not coming here but instead going to socialist Europe?

I pray the Europeans come to their senses and that quick before a new Hitler arises.”

Dear Shawn…..last time we looked it was Muslims killing Muslims in Syria. The fact is that Obama caused the power vacuum to open wide when he mistakenly thought he deserved another Nobel Peace prize. What the Middle East needs is another strong man to keep order at gun point.

Oh Look…..guess who just walked in……Hey it’s our old pal Vladamir Putin. Harper is no where near being implicated in the Muslims civil war…unless you’re a crazed liberal Hate Harper barker.

Oh…bwahahahahahahahaha did you see Chretien take the rains from Junior T today? Looks like Justin brought his grand father to the job interview.

If Justin has run out of things to say…..maybe he can ride the escalator back to his part time drama class and let the adults have their election.

#232 When will they raise rates? on 09.14.15 at 2:58 am

I’m just curious, which of the 3 big parties will ultimately bring about a real-estate decline/correction/crash the most quickly?

Conversely, which of the 3 will keep it going the longest?

Any opinions and rationalizations out there?

#233 Frank on 09.14.15 at 3:04 am

Enough of TFSA whinning. If you have 20 000$ to invest in a TFSA this years, nobody stop you from investing the balance in a non-registred next years account if the cons lose, it suck but there is some way to defer tax if market crash and if you want to avoid dividend tax you can use you swap etf like hxt or hxs. The math won’t as look as bad as your deceptive exemple.

#234 Mf on 09.14.15 at 5:32 am

#198 Transplant on 09.13.15 at 10:37 pm

Know how hard it is to get into med school these days in Canada? Next to impossible. Know how tough it is to find decent pay and full time work with security at all?

Most would be grateful to have that opportunity that you described, which sounded like a job with tons of flexibility and autonomy. 300k salaries are in the stratosphere and should be earned.

Mf

#235 Mf on 09.14.15 at 5:45 am

71 Gregor Samsa on 09.13.15 at 9:37 pm

I partially agree.

It’s a mixed bag. Remember we got through 2008 relatively unhurt (but kind of squandered the opportunity to build on that).

Also, one’s standing in the world doesn’t mean anything when almost every other country is a currupt wasteland. I for one, could not care less about the UN, which is basically a bunch of pathetic losers (save for a few countries).

Most importantly, the other too besides H are so pathetic it’s hard to even consider voting for them.

Mf

#236 Mf on 09.14.15 at 6:12 am

#194 Sheane Wallace on 09.13.15 at 10:32 pm

“We know who”? I assume you mean our southern neighbor?

Nice simplification.

Ever heard of Iran or Russia?

The last time the U.S. was isolationist we had ww1. Pacifism led to ww2.

You know what? I actually think We should be grateful the U.S. Puts its soldiers on the line for our way of life. Would you rather China or Russia as top dog?

As for Europe. Shaken is 100% correct. The idiot bleeding heart liberals are destroying it with their policies. Germany taking in something like 300000 refugees from a part of the Mideast that is a hotbed of extremism is pretty dumb, as an example. The proof is in the pudding as there has already been multiple terrorist attacks in recent years across the continent.

Even my GF who is an immigrant from SE Asia says the refugee idea is a bad idea. I agree. Pathetic political pandering. I say Let people like her get the citizenship instead. They are already here providing a service, speak the language, are from none violent countries. and are westernized.

Mf

#237 Jay on 09.14.15 at 6:24 am

You’re making a critical mistake, Garth: you’re believing politicians.

For good or for ill, you can’t trust a word they say until they do it. Unfortunately, that means we’re playing roulette, and we won’t know what we won until the ball stops.

#238 Sheane Wallace on 09.14.15 at 6:49 am

#236 Mf
I meant all of these including Iran and Russia

#239 slick on 09.14.15 at 6:57 am

well garth, I think we are screwed.
Even though your blog is primarily RE themed,
I thought that the followers would have a bias towards financial security.
I cannot understand any taxpayer in this country would stand for a gov’t policy to increase taxes,
or decrease investment opportunities like RSP or TFSA growth.
But that is exactly what your comment section shows.
People seem to hate Harper so much, they are willing to elect a party with a message that they can waste even more money than the current minions.
How can this be acceptable to them?
Don’t get me wrong, I think Harper is a megalomaniac, but the other 2 are far more incompetent to handle tax money.
I shouldn’t be surprised after
seeing the results of our ontario election, where the sheeple put the liberals back in power,
with a majority, even with the billions lost and massive corruption exposed.
And let us not forget our foray into the NDP logic back in the 1990’s.
With the liberals message that anyone with more than poverty line income are evil puppy smotherers,
the Koolaid has been consumed, and we will get what we have coming.
We have poor quality leaders to choose from, and this great country is in for at least 10 years of floundering, no matter what happens now.
slick

#240 Bottoms_Up on 09.14.15 at 7:24 am

#198 Transplant on 09.13.15 at 10:37 pm
———————————
Would the heart be superior to the stomach? Glad you weren’t my doc!!!

#241 Smoking Man on 09.14.15 at 8:13 am

Attention Steve French.

Commentary?

Tony Aboot shown the door?

#242 liquidincalgary on 09.14.15 at 8:21 am

BS says:

Most TSFAs will not show up as an actual loss of tax revenue for decades.

============================================

tax was paid on these monies BEFORE being contributed to tfsa. where is the ‘loss of tax’??

#243 MF on 09.14.15 at 8:30 am

#238 Sheane Wallace on 09.14.15 at 6:49 am

Gotcha.

MF

#244 MF on 09.14.15 at 8:39 am

#168 OXI in GREECE !! on 09.13.15 at 9:35 pm

“It would be interesting to know how “many” of the so called 1% in Canada are Public Sector works as they should not count. This would be because they are paid with tax dollars and provide no money to the countries GDP. They are just circle jerking existing tax dollars.”

Lol comment of the year OXI!

Snide, lewd, direct, offensive, and yet extremely logical. Awesome.

MF

#245 GG1 Electric on 09.14.15 at 8:52 am

‘…Finally, encouraging private savings is massively cheaper for society than trying to create and administer a public income support system, especially with an aging population.’

True enough, but a publicly-administered income support system will be staffed by unionized (CUPE) workers, all of whom will vote for the Liberal/NDP coalition forever. QED

Garth! You’re smarter than that!

#246 Edward on 09.14.15 at 8:55 am

“Canada one of most economically free”: Fraser Institute

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/14/canada-one-of-most-economically-free-fraser-institute

#247 Transplant on 09.14.15 at 8:59 am

#234 Mf

Know how hard it is to get into med school these days in Canada? Next to impossible. Know how tough it is to find decent pay and full time work with security at all?

Most would be grateful to have that opportunity that you described, which sounded like a job with tons of flexibility and autonomy. 300k salaries are in the stratosphere and should be earned.

I do understand how hard it is to get into med school these days, about as hard as it was to get in back in 1964, especially as the youngest child in an immigrant family the father of which worked as an underground miner for 40 years and never earned over $5,200 and whose 3 children all got university degrees.

I can assure you that I am very grateful to have had the opportunity to earn a good living, with an emphasis on “earn”. I did have a degree of autonomy, but not to set my own fees for the better part of my career, as they were set by OHIP first and then by insurance companies, Medicare and Medicaid later. I also did not have enough autonomy to avoid being “chained” to a telephone or pager every 4th day for my entire career.

In the last few years I worked we made an effort to recruit new physicians to our practice. We hired a total of 4 of them fresh out of residency and none lasted more than 1 year, not enough “family time” or “quality of life”. The first guy was shocked when presented with his first call schedule, he was under the impression that he would be working “bankers’ hours”.

Besides that, Mf, based on your other posts I believe we’re on the same page.

#248 Andrew on 09.14.15 at 9:00 am

The statement “there is no reduction in tax or loss of direct federal revenue when the plan is used” is very misleading.

If the money is not invested in the TFSA it will be in the RRSP or Non-Registered. In both cases there is a loss of future federal tax income. Sure this wont really impact us today but in say 20-40 years this impact will be huge.

I make a decent wage, 30 years old and earn $100k. Naturally most of the people around me make a similar wage. I have only ever met 1 person who had maxed out their TFSA every year prior to the increase. Now that we are debt free we all try but its going to take years and years to catch up to the accumulated contribution room.

That being said who can even max out this $10,000 per year? Now I am married with a wife and kid. We have $40,000 of unused room as it is. With the new limit we could contribute $1666 per month! How can any average family contribute that much? We couldn’t even come close to the old limit and we make more money than most.

Thus the TFSA limit at $10,000 ONLY really helps those with extremely high incomes. Your example is accurate but 95% of Canadians can’t contribute that money.

No argument, since when you are 50 this could form the cornerstone of your retirement savings. You might not be able to use it now, but things will change. Over 90% of RRSP contribution room is not used either. Should we eliminate that savings vehicle? — Garth

#249 Axehead on 09.14.15 at 9:04 am

This is probably already posted and I can’t read all the numerous threads but the following quote from Garth …

‘This is NDP math. Like taking a new mortgage on the same house 11 times.’

… is priceless. Thanks for making my day.

#250 NoName on 09.14.15 at 9:11 am

#236 Mf on 09.14.15 at 6:12 am

“speak the language, are from none violent countries. and are westernized.”

Can you give me an example of those non violent countries form SEA, just name 5 of those non violent countries. I am looking at a map and I can come up with only 2 maybe 3. What say you?

#251 maxx on 09.14.15 at 9:12 am

#10 shikalu on 09.13.15 at 1:26 pm

“Is Canada on the verge of a great brain drain of high end professionals, kind of like what happened with UK doctors in the 60s….”

It’s already started. Doctors live in a truly borderless world, just as corporations do.
For those wishing to stay where they currently live, have a look at the increasing number of M.D.s plying skin “rejuvenation” procedures and plastic surgery rather than practicing life-saving medicine.
The more of our taxes gubbmint sucks out of medicine, the more our precious health care workers will move to greener pastures. Who can blame them?
Rather than being treated like just another “commodity”, they ought to be paid respectable wages and given decent working conditions.
What I’d love to see is an across-the-board firing of all MBA hospital “administrators” with no actual previous qualification in medicine. The blind arrogance of these dangerous and largely invisible suits is truly frightening and they are the obscenely overpaid contingent of our “healthcare” system. Out of all proportion, compared to the people who do the actual work.
Re-purposed catheter anyone?

#252 Llewelyn on 09.14.15 at 9:13 am

The Canadian economy requires diversification!! What to do? What to do?

From what I gather on this blog it would seem that millions of Canadians are sitting on billions of dollars of investment capital. For reasons I find rather perplexing no political party has linked the need for economic diversification with the billions of dollars Canadian citizens have tucked away for their retirement.

In their wisdom the Government of Canada decided to guarantee mortgage backed securities and this decision substantially increased the profits realized by financial institutions and individuals and corporations involved in the sale of these securities. As I have pointed out several times almost 100% of the risk associated with mortgage backed securities based on high ratio mortgages remains with Canadian homeowners. Government guarantees could be used to diversify our economy as well.

I am suggesting that the Government of Canada introduce a ‘Canadian Investment’ bond offering every Canadian citizen of voting age the opportunity to purchase up to $10,000 in bonds each year. The interest rate set each year would be guaranteed by the Government of Canada and would be exempt from taxation. The proceeds received from the sale of guaranteed bonds would by managed by a Board of Directors drawn from the top business minds in the country.

This management board would evaluate opportunities to diversify the Canadian economy by investing capital and expertise in Canada and in underdeveloped countries. At regular intervals the investments made by the management board would be made available for review. It would be made clear to the world that the rate of return on Canadian investment would be limited and that their interest would be transferred at some point in time.

The Canadian Investment Board could form joint ventures or secure working interests in projects and companies around the world on behalf of Canadian citizens. Strategic investment would open avenues for Canadian technology and expertise in key sectors like agriculture, forest management, hydro power, renewable fish and crustacean management, oil and gas development, mining, aero space, rail and truck logistics, etc. etc. This could be combined with an expanded knowledge exchange program where Canada invested in the education of bright minds from underdeveloped countries.

I am very tired of the ‘avoid Maple’ message on this blog and strongly suggest that it is time to focus on ways to restore Canada’s reputation of investing in the development of underdeveloped nations around the world.

Introducing an alternative to the voracious appetite of unrestrained capitalism could redefine our position in the global economy.

#253 Scott on 09.14.15 at 9:15 am

Garth – I’m a big fan, but can’t say that I agree with you on this post.

I agree that if someone is fairly well off, is investing at least 10k per year, and is only interested in maximizing investment gains, the Conservatives are a clear winner.

That said, what about all those Canadians who cannot afford to invest 10k, or even 5k per year (there are many of them)? Or those in lower tax brackets or who have young kids and would pay less income tax and/or receive other benefits under the Liberals or NDP?

At the end of the day, I think the point being made by the NDP and Liberals is that those who have maxed TFSAs and make >$200,000 are already doing very well for themselves. How much money does one person or family really need? Are those people at risk of living on the street, or not being able to pay for required medications, etc.? Not likely. In the end someone has to foot the bill, and transferring some wealth from those who make >$200,000 to those who make less is fine in my books.

Is the meaning of life simply to accumulate as much individual financial wealth as humanly possible? Or is is possible that other things are also important? An open democracy? A society that cares about/for it’s most vulnerable? There is more to life than money.

People earning $200,000 or more a year already hand over half of it in income tax. Do not propagate the myth they avoid paying their ‘fair share.’ — Garth

#254 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 9:15 am

#8: “Tom Mulcair as prime minister is perhaps plausible for some people . Tom Mulcair as finance minister ,run for your lives !”

*****************

If he’s anything like Harper, he’d be calling all the shots.

#255 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 9:17 am

Does Trudeau really need Martin and Chretien to bolster his campaign?

#256 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 9:25 am

#21: “I find the policy of muzzling our top scientists more alarming than the loss of the TFSA room.”

******************

Yep. Time for serious change in government.

Every politician everywhere campaigns on ‘change’ since it fools the electorate ten times out of ten. — Garth

#257 DJG on 09.14.15 at 9:32 am

I just don’t understand how you can pimp for the tories if you’re at all serious about fiscally responsible policies. The tories under Harper have shown that there is literally no opportunity they won’t take to put partisanship ahead of what’s right for the economy. The one positive growth engine we have, which is a burgeoning early stage consumer and b2b internet sector, has been utterly ignored at the expense of doubling down on oil sands. Whatever time’s left over is spent pandering to the “tough on crime” and social conservative knuckle-draggers. I’m assuming you haven’t even heard of companies such as Hootsuite or Shopify, but for all their flaws the NDP leadership actually does seem to understand the potential value of this sector.

Our family income was just under $500k last year, but that doesn’t mean I’m only going to vote for whomever puts personal taxation for high income earners ahead of what’s right for the broader economy.

When you learn to read more objectively you’ll see I am not pimping for any party, but injecting some factual information into a hate-filled campaign. Will the broader economy benefit from more tax and greater government spending? That’s not an argument I am willing to swallow without details and specifics. Nor should you. As for Shopify, I was employing that company seven years ago. You may have been in short pants then. Not sure. — Garth

#258 JimH on 09.14.15 at 9:34 am

From $2 billion deficit to $2 billion surplus!!!

This will prove interesting!

#259 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 9:39 am

#52: “I know 3 people who would support Harper and they are the same ones that think Donald Trump will make a great president, know that global warming is a sham concocted by David Suzuki and fracking could not possibly cause minor earthquakes….”

***************

That would be funny….if it wasn’t so sadly true.

#260 Mf on 09.14.15 at 9:50 am

#246 NoName on 09.14.15 at 9:11 am

Sure. I know what you are getting at but I’ll bite the bait. My gf is from the Phils. The country is currupt, over populated, impoverished, and has lots of crime. Similar story for most of SE Asia (minus Singapore perhaps.)

Given all this the people are extremely hard working, friendly and humble. They also don’t blame “the west” for their issues and instead try to take responsibility. Sri lankens are another example (from South Asia). I work with lots of them. That country was in civil war for 30 years but they come here and work like dogs to become proud Canadians.

I don’t see any Filipino, Thai, Vietnamese, Sri lankens etc. flying planes into buildings or bombing subways around the western world.

Mf

#261 The Other Chris on 09.14.15 at 9:57 am

I’ve never understood the supposed problem with “muzzling” government scientists. So they have to get approval from their employer before they publish things? How is that different from scientists at any of the big pharmaceutical companies? The only place where you can just publish whatever you want without approval is academia. If you want that kind of lifestyle, stay in academia.

#262 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 10:08 am

#83: “Did anyone see Gary Marr’s article in The Province today? I had no idea that the NDP was potentially considering imposing lifetime maximum contribution limits to the TFSA.”

**********************

We can’t depend on anything, long term.

#263 Ralph Cramdown on 09.14.15 at 10:10 am

“Does Trudeau really need Martin and Chretien to bolster his campaign?”

It’s a subtle dig — a reminder that Mulroney wouldn’t campaign for Harper even if asked.

Meanwhile, at Conservative campaign HQ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOaCD_JNgkA

#264 Hot Albertan Money on 09.14.15 at 10:10 am

Garth,

Have you seen this article where every party was asked the same 8 questions on the TFSA? Here is question #6 and each parties answer…

6. Does your party support a lifetime contribution limit to the TFSA?

Libs:

6.The Liberal Party does not intend to impose a lifetime contribution limit to TFSAs.

Dips:

6.We will be speaking more about details of our policy over the course of the campaign.

Cons:

6.No answer (Party issued a statement and would not respond to directly to questions. Answers are extrapolated from that statement and past party decisions.)

The Greens and Bloc are in there too, but screw them

http://www.theprovince.com/business/everything+need+know+about+free+savings+account+federal+election/11357002/story.html

#265 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 10:24 am

“There are 10,700,000 TFSA account-holders in Canada…”

******************

Most of whom have no idea what to do with their TFSA and so their meagre contributions sit in ‘high interest’ savings accounts waiting to be withdrawn and spent for…well, anything that strikes their fancy.

#266 Scott on 09.14.15 at 10:38 am

“People earning $200,000 or more a year already hand over half of it in income tax. Do not propagate the myth they avoid paying their ‘fair share.’ — Garth”

To be clear, I wasn’t propagating any myth in my post. I didn’t say anything about people making over $200,000 not paying their fair share, or any other statement of the like.

“Fairness” is entirely relative.

#267 Nora Lenderby on 09.14.15 at 10:40 am

Interesting opinion piece about Saudi Arabia:

http://www.michelsanti.fr/en/checkmate-for-saudi-arabia/

#268 JimH on 09.14.15 at 10:40 am

#248 Andrew
“I make a decent wage, 30 years old and earn $100k…
That being said who can even max out this $10,000 per year? Now I am married with a wife and kid… We couldn’t even come close to the old limit and we make more money than most.”
=================================
You don’t say if that $100K is your total Family Income or not, of if your wife also contributes to the total income.

Either way, you are way above the median Canadian family income of $75.6K!

It’s all about choices and priorities; it looks like that lone member of your group with a similar income who managed to max out his/her TFSA account contribution might have had different priorities and thus made more different and difficult choices than did you.

How we spend both our time and our money signals our priorities.

Clearly for you and the rest of the herd, saving for retirement is not even on the list of priorities. The Chinese, by comparison, have an average personal disposable income of $5996(CAD) per year and manage to save over 25% to %50 percent of that.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-01/chinese-consumers-cling-to-saving-suppressing-spending
http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/02/china-saving-marriage-markets-economy-trade.html
http://www.nber.org/papers/w16771

Garth is dead right. It’s a matter of choices and priorities.

#269 salonist on 09.14.15 at 10:42 am

nanos poll,follow pc tracking line
harper appoints garth turner to the senate

#270 fancy_pants on 09.14.15 at 10:47 am

#178 Big feet on 09.13.15 at 9:55 pm

I share your concerns in this regard

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kathleen-wynne-pledges-to-bring-10-000-refugees-to-ontario-1.3225695

Since when is she a voice for immigration? As she indicates, not under her power. But she would rather spin some positive humanitarian attention to herself to buy more votes from the bloated freeloaders voters than actually run the province with some integrity.

Pretty soon there will be no businesses or taxpayers left to support this province. And it will just keep getting worse as the balance of voting power continues to fall to the ever growing group of people who draw from the public purse.

#271 T.C. on 09.14.15 at 10:50 am

Hey Andrew, read #211. You are the one “with an extremely high income,” not me. Nobody forced you to set your priorities, so f— off and stop trying to force them on me.

#272 JSS on 09.14.15 at 10:51 am

Why not place all doctors and nurses on salaries + benefits.

Can probably save tax payers a lot of money

#273 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 10:59 am

#197: “I’ll GLADLY sacrifice extra contributions to my TFSA to get rid of Harper, something that should have happened eons ago.”

********************

Right. However, when Harper can win a ‘majority’ with a mere 38% (35%) of the popular vote — meaning 62% (65%) did NOT vote for the PCs — there’s something seriously wrong with the system.

#274 JimH on 09.14.15 at 11:00 am

Wow! A 1.9 Billion Loonie surplus. From this, we can safely project a huge $10 Billion surplus for Fiscal Year 2015-16???

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/fiscal-year-ottawa-surplus-1.3226969

You bet! Harper, the Capt. Ahab of Canadian Politics, harpoons an October victory? Or not?

And poor Justin was calling for future deficits? You were worried about the wild spending of the dippers?

Only in Canada, you say?

#275 Liz May Supporter on 09.14.15 at 11:00 am

I’m voting Green in this election because I like Elizabeth May and it’s in effect a small vote for the Conservatives because Trudeau seems like a Puppet (did he dream up his platform or did someone else? I suspect the latter) and Mulcair a Tyrant (He goes against his party’s traditional values). What is Harper? The only qualified alternative.

Plus, the weakness in the commitment to a coalition from Trudeau shows lack of respect for all Canadians who dislike Harper. So how could they support Trudeau then? Support May or Mulcair instead!

#276 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 11:10 am

#233: “Enough of TFSA whinning. If you have 20 000$ to invest in a TFSA this years, nobody stop you from investing the balance in a non-registred next years account…”

****************

True enuf. The TFSA doesn’t limit anyone from investing their after-tax dollars elsewhere.

#277 Calgary Rip Off on 09.14.15 at 11:12 am

#198 Transplant:

You are a physician? Family MD?

“when you go to the ER with your heart attack at 2 AM be sure to ask for a good general surgeon, and when he asks tell him he can find your heart somewhere superior to your liver above the diaphragm.”

Um…..no. If a patient goes to the ER and has ST elevation with a troponin rise then likely the algorithm will say to treat with a thrombolytic unless there is an interventionalist nearby. You arent going to call in the surgeon for an acute MI, even before intervention techniques came into play, in the 1980’s.

Your post just shows the variability in physicians and demonstrates exactly why many people such as myself will resort first to their own wits rather than see the family md. There are so many things in medicine that are not fixable. Give it another 100 years(maybe) to master stem cell research in growing new limbs, curing cancer, curing HIV, curing Herpes.

Medicine is about $$$$. Period. Do you know why vitamin D is recommended? Profit. They dont tell you it messes with your magnesium levels, affects calcium assimilation and requires more vitamin K, just that some lab test says the vitamin D levels are low and therefore should supplement without examining the big picture.

It is correct that physicians are often underpaid. But many make over a million a year in Canada. I did some paperwork for one once and he grossed $77,000 in 3 weeks. He works all year round. You figure it out.

As far as I am concerned, take the risk in taxing big corporations. If my taxes go up, fine, if they provide for someone who needs it. Why am I paying taxes, just to have a figure head in power that doesnt do anything and just promises less taxes? In that case, why have any taxes at all?

#278 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 11:18 am

“Every politician everywhere campaigns on ‘change’ since it fools the electorate ten times out of ten. — Garth”

********************

True. Nothing ever changes. We dummies should understand that by now…but keep getting sucked in with the usual rhetoric. We just need to get rid of Harper. Not necessarily the PCs — just their hateful leader.

#279 BS on 09.14.15 at 11:19 am

I make a decent wage, 30 years old and earn $100k. Naturally most of the people around me make a similar wage. I have only ever met 1 person who had maxed out their TFSA every year prior to the increase.

You and your 30 year old cohorts may not have gotten cancer lately either. Should we shutdown all the cancer clinics as well because you and your buddies don’t need them right now?

#280 For those about to flop... on 09.14.15 at 11:23 am

#248 Andrew on 09.14.15 at 9:00 am
The statement “there is no reduction in tax or loss of direct federal revenue when the plan is used” is very misleading.

If the money is not invested in the TFSA it will be in the RRSP or Non-Registered. In both cases there is a loss of future federal tax income. Sure this wont really impact us today but in say 20-40 years this impact will be huge.

I make a decent wage, 30 years old and earn $100k. Naturally most of the people around me make a similar wage. I have only ever met 1 person who had maxed out their TFSA every year prior to the increase. Now that we are debt free we all try but its going to take years and years to catch up to the accumulated contribution room.

That being said who can even max out this $10,000 per year? Now I am married with a wife and kid. We have $40,000 of unused room as it is. With the new limit we could contribute $1666 per month! How can any average family contribute that much? We couldn’t even come close to the old limit and we make more money than most.

Thus the TFSA limit at $10,000 ONLY really helps those with extremely high incomes. Your example is accurate but 95% of Canadians can’t contribute that money.

No argument, since when you are 50 this could form the cornerstone of your retirement savings. You might not be able to use it now, but things will change. Over 90% of RRSP contribution room is not used either. Should we eliminate that savings vehicle? — Garth

——————————————
Andrew you make more than 2.5 times what I make but are making excuses on why not to save for your future .
If you make it a higher priority you will easily save 10k a year ,if you can’t save 10% you might be overspending .
You will have a more comfortable retirement than me by far but I made a promise to myself not to let my low income be an excuse for not saving for my future.
After all there is an old saying ” it’s not what you earn its what you save”
Repriortize and you will be fine.

#281 Randy Randerson on 09.14.15 at 11:28 am

#225 Jeff on 09.14.15 at 1:05 am

I’m surprised that those highly-trained yet unemployed doctors don’t go where the jobs are, which is down south. Pity the doctor whose family settled in Toronto and restricted his choice of work, I bet it must be because he bought an overpriced house in Toronto.

#282 Panhead on 09.14.15 at 11:33 am

How stupid can we collectively be? We are now pitted against each other over something that is good for all. Just so some politician can get elected and screw us again. And very few even get out and vote … sheesh …

#283 pwn3d on 09.14.15 at 11:35 am

Harper balances budget. For all the left who laughably tried to attack his record on the economy, name another G7 country who is balanced? Name another G7 who stimulated less? Name another G7 who was affected by the financial crisis less?

You can’t. Best stick to the hidden agenda line, it makes more sense.

#284 Transplant on 09.14.15 at 11:38 am

40 Bottoms_Up

#198 Transplant on 09.13.15 at 10:37 pm
———————————
Would the heart be superior to the stomach? Glad you weren’t my doc!!!

I’m also glad that I wasn’t your doc. Is the word “stomach” to be found anywhere in my comment?

#285 Retired business owner on 09.14.15 at 11:40 am

I’ll continue to look forward to your blog everyday. I love it!
However, I can no longer read the comments from your fellow Canadians. I always end up with a feeling of sadness. At one point I admired and even envied the Canadians. No more. It’s so sad that they see what happened to us when collectively we said “anybody but Bush!”
Now we’re on the path of destruction with little hope left.
Best of luck to Canada. I cannot understand how you continue to do what you do.
It has to be so depressing. Many thanks for hanging in there.

#286 JimH on 09.14.15 at 11:41 am

#252 Llewelyn

I think you have to search high and low to find any modern examples of “unrestrained Capitalism” today, Llewelyn!

Yes, the lack of diversification in the Canadian economy is troubling. There is also concern about the lack of diversification in most of Canada’s largest corporations.

Trusting Government to provide some form of address of the problem is not necessarily a bad idea, but I believe the answer lies more in boosting Canada’s R&D than in direct investment. (right now, direct investment in ‘underdeveloped countries’ carries with it extremely high risk relative to questionable reward. see nyseArca SCHE in this regard)

Here is a list of top R&D Corps in Canada:
http://www.researchinfosource.com/pdf/Canada_s%20Top%20100%20corporate%20R%26D%20Spenders%202014.pdf

Canada generally in public R&D
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/innovation/publicrandd.aspx

Cheers

#287 Randy Randerson on 09.14.15 at 11:43 am

#248 Andrew on 09.14.15 at 9:00 am

Sucks to be you, Andrew, you whiny, entitled kid. I’m 35 and makes about the same as you. I support my parents by giving them $35,000 of AFTER-TAX money a year, and I still am able to top up my TFSA by putting in $41,000 over the last two years to play catch-up.

If you can’t sacrifice and save, that’s your problem. Deal with it. Pulling people down just because you suck doesn’t make it fair.

#288 Jamie Dimon on 09.14.15 at 11:53 am

Don’t vote to tax doctors! Seriously….my doctor brother might stop paying the bar tab….

#289 Randy on 09.14.15 at 11:54 am

Democracy looks more flawed everyday.

#290 Doc on 09.14.15 at 12:29 pm

In BC in 1994 I was told I could come and practice as a family doctor in the okanagan but I would receive only 50% of the regular fee schedule because there were too many family doctors here. This was a joint gov’t and BCMA position which took about 7 years to be overturned by the courts. I then did another 4yr. residency to become a specialist as there was no restriction then re my chosen specialty. Now there are 50,000 people in the okanagan without a family doctor. I never made enough to reach the 1% though I worked at least 60 hours a week and saved all I could. I am retiring in a few months at 65 with personal savings and CPP/OAS. Why pick on the doctors. My specialty grosses about 250 a year for full time practitioners so it is bottom of the barrel and med students are not choosing it. Gross income only seems to be quoted constantly in media. Yes medicine is a great profession but the doctors earn their keep, employ others and pay their taxes so we’re not the problem.

#291 Spending Money We Don't Have on 09.14.15 at 12:32 pm

For the first time in 8 years a surprise $1.9 billion surplus.

Everyone is arguing about TFSAs and/or RRSPs which cost our government money (TFSA interest income would be taxed if some other type of investment; thus, this is an opportunity cost to Canada).

We just barely saved some money for once.

I’ll vote for who promises the least and thus far, that is not Harper.

#292 For those about to flop... on 09.14.15 at 12:35 pm

Why doesn’t a group of mps in the Conservative party do the same as what just happened to Tony Abbott in my former homeland of Oz.
A lot of people in this country seem pro conservative but anti Harper and so a change in leadership probably would have guaranteed a victory.
I know a lot of people say that they are to scared of Harper but if you can’t do what is best for your party how can you be expected to do what is best for your country.
One man should not be a government…

#293 Jack Hanson on 09.14.15 at 12:44 pm

To #281 pwn3d

The left, NDP, Liberals, Green Party etc. will say Harper and the Conservatives made it up. There is no balanced budget for Canada.

One thing is for sure, there will be no balanced budgets for Canada under the NDP, Liberals, Green Party etc. and worse, deficits going on for years with higher taxes up the wazoo with nothing to show for it.

Yes, you they are saying they want change, the only change will be the small change in Canadians pockets if they vote for the left.

#294 Keith on 09.14.15 at 12:51 pm

[email protected]

Ernst and Young has a tax calculator website:
http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax/Tax-Calculators-2015-Personal-Tax

Plugging in 200k income in Ontario, a province which has elicited comprehensive moaning about taxation yields the following

Income – 200k
Income tax paid – 72,157
Average – tax rate – 36.08%
Marginal tax rate – 47.97%

Even on the margin the income tax rate in the vast majority of Canadian province only reaches 50%. To state that people making 200k pay over half their income in taxes is simply inaccurate, and in the current debate irresponsible.

Please make a great contribution to the discourse on taxation by correctly using the words “marginal rate” and “average rate” when discussing taxation. We don’t want young people to believe that people making 200k pay over 100k in income taxes. That could be a disincentive to pursuing the career of their dreams. There is enough wrong with the “eat the rich mentality” without these inaccuracies.

Add in the 2% ORPP and it is half. — Garth

#295 HCWTT on 09.14.15 at 1:06 pm

#212 Smoking Man on 09.13.15 at 11:30 pm
Technology , ripped from Aliens, is here.
Everyone one of you, right now can have a personal flyer, zero g. 90 degree trurns at light speed.
The machine , the 12 pricks that run the word, making you flip burger’s.
No need for airline’s, oil, gas, cho cho trains. And auto mobiles.
Shit load of trillions in that model, but they oun the msm, the banks, the individual, education, military industry complex.
Only way I can enlighten, without suicide , three shots to the head.
You do it though fiction, prentending to be insane.
You just might pull it off.
My book rocks…..
_____________________________________________
Jesus Smoking Man I hope you have your book translated into one of the roughly 6500 different languages of this world as the Nectonite language is a piece of shit! My ten year old grandson has a more proficient command of the English vernacular than you. Please use a spell check you lazy bastard, its getting a little old! You claim to be a brilliant programmer? Use that God-dam brain. Or are you actually a savant!

#296 Llewelyn on 09.14.15 at 1:08 pm

#284 Jim H

I spent 20 years working with First Nations in Canada who held legal interests in land and natural resources but did not have access to the capital necessary to develop these interests for the benefit of their membership. Legislation introduced by the Government of Canada encouraged the legal interests held by First Nations to be transferred to taxable entities who had access to the capital necessary to develop the land and resources. The rent or royalties received by First Nations was dwarfed by the profits generated by the taxable entities.

The co-operative approach adopted by most First Nations was definitely not compatible with a capitalist system devoted to the accumulation of wealth by individuals or private corporations.

Many First Nation corporations that gained access to investment capital beame profitable. These companies not only provided employment at fair wages but also generated capital for future investment. I found it curious that the Government of Canada never introduced programs to encourage Canadian citizens to invest in the development of legal interests land and natural resources held by First Nations.

In 1994 I submitted a position paper to the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples suggesting that support for the development of aboriginal economies might open the door to similar investment opportunities around the world. In 2015 Chinese companies have gained control over millions of acres of farmland in Africa and are employing the local labour force. Unfortunately the majority of revenue gained from sale of produce is exported leaving little capital for investment by African Nations. I am suggesting that Canada introduce a more equitable development option while using our considerable expertise to transfer knowledge at the same time.

I fully agree with your observations on the reduced emphasis on R & D. This is very short sighted and should become a more prominent election issue.

#297 Meanwhile...reality is alive and well on 09.14.15 at 1:13 pm

Here’s a choice from the real world outside these petty issues. The question at a seminar was ‘Should women be beaten”? The answer from a feminist group is an example of the clash of civilizations that’s brewing…and will explode into flames and blood very soon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11862220/Topless-protesters-disrupt-Muslim-conference-on-women.html

The western world needs to get it’s head out of it’s ass and realize whats going on.

#298 Mr.Hulot on 09.14.15 at 1:21 pm

Home prices rise 5.4% in August from July

http://www.bnn.ca/Video/player.aspx?vid=703813

Care to comment, Garth

Sure. Price did not increase 5.4% in a month. That is the annualized increase. Be more careful. — Garth

#299 MF on 09.14.15 at 1:24 pm

#247 Transplant on 09.14.15 at 8:59 am

I also believe after reading that post we are on the same page.

Cheers Doc Transplant.

MF

#300 pwn3d on 09.14.15 at 1:36 pm

#294 Keith on 09.14.15 at 12:51 pm
[email protected]

Ernst and Young has a tax calculator website:
http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax/Tax-Calculators-2015-Personal-Tax

Plugging in 200k income in Ontario, a province which has elicited comprehensive moaning about taxation yields the following

Income – 200k
Income tax paid – 72,157
Average – tax rate – 36.08%
Marginal tax rate – 47.97%

—————-

Now try putting in the top bracket instead at 220,001 and you get 49.53%

This does not include the health premium. Add that and you get to 50%. Now add EI, CPP, ORPP and you’re far over 50%. Now, does this person not own a house or rent? There is property tax to pay. Now, does this person not eat or need clothing or transportation? There is sales tax to pay.

Btw the 150k tax rate in Ontario is not indexed, meaning they are raising taxes on the oh so wealthy every year. And thus shows you the inequality of not having income splitting – a household with two people making 100k pay far far less than one with a single person making 200k and a stay at home.

Wynne/JT have taken the Libs so far left they don’t care about any of this. I don’t recognize the party at all any more, they are no longer even close to center.

#301 pwn3d on 09.14.15 at 1:43 pm

I forgot to mention other fees like licensing, passport, plate stickers, user fees, land transfer taxes, HST on fuel and home heating, and new homes, nevermind education costs… It’s an endless barrage of taxes, so yes, the young should be discouraged because it wasn’t them that racked up all this debt but oh, will they pay for it.

#302 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.14.15 at 1:46 pm

Nice dad! Typical response of the narrow thinker.
What if the dad dies of pneumonia?
Who’s gonna look after the kid?
Harper, Tudeau or Mulcair?

#303 MF on 09.14.15 at 1:55 pm

#277 Calgary Rip Off on 09.14.15 at 11:12 am

I take issue with this too. A million a year?? That’s way way too excessive. Especially for the quality of service we often receive. Here in Canada, at least in Ontario, Dr offices and hospitals are always packed with people using the “free” OHIP service. It’s a huge revolving door. Many of our doctors don’t have to have any bedside manner at all because there are ten people waiting in the waiting room always. Specialists, who are the most highly paid, are often the worst in this regard. Not all, but a sizable percentage just rub people the wrong way.

I understand we are not debating the quality of care between the two countries, but in the US at least these doctors have to try and attract/keep you as a patient with decent bedside manner. That doesn’t seem to be the case here.

I also understand they have done lots of training, but you know what, so has everyone else. Our population is extremely over educated and under payed and yet these guys still claim the more schooling = money card? I’ve seen our best and brightest get shot down by the impossibly high standards needed to get accepted by the medical schools in Canada. Even my own GPA which was low 90’s was not good enough. A few people I know have gone abroad to study medicine for this reason. Many of our medical students also plan on practicing in the US or abroad, essentially wasting the schooling we provide (also paid for by our tax payers).

We now hear that these specialists who did “lots of schooling”, and often have zero bedside manner and usually think they are supreme beings are getting paid millions (again on the dime of the tax payer).. at a time we have large public debt loads? It’s a little rediculous.

(Disclaimer: I work in a rehab facility and I hear stories from people time and time again about botched surgeries, bad bed side manner, long waits etc. Aside from long waits, the service I have received so far in hospitals personally has been pretty good. Luckily I have not had any major health scares so that might be why.)

MF

#304 Mike in Surrey on 09.14.15 at 2:01 pm

#63 Math is hard… One Million dollar at age 48 in Principle residence, RRSP and TFSA. Compound 7% for 15 years would be $2.76 Million at age 62 (stop contributions at age 48). While a 30 year old with 100,000 net worth would need to deposit $2500 every month for 32 years; just to get 4.5 Million at age 62. So it’s like making 100K income but live like having just 70K salary. How many household can achieve this or keep this up for 32 years?

#305 NoName on 09.14.15 at 2:04 pm

#260 Mf on 09.14.15 at 9:50 am

You went completely wrong there, but that’s ok.

let me tell you something, If anyone can judge and generalize its me, but you my friend make me look good. so i’ll stop here.

And on a side node, I kind-of always liked dictators, just for the one reason they always knew where the state line was, and they govern them self that way, for the most part. Now that we get rid of them (dictators) and we give them democracy, population don’t wont to live there, because there is some new #[email protected]! who is trying to fill a vacuum.

and that airplane thing is utter bullS#!7… what about all those Filipino people on a busses or tourists and citizens in Thailand, is that bad or just happens to be in third world country so we don’t care.

is you are goanna replay on this keep on mind that I eat fish every Friday.

#306 retired Boomer - WI on 09.14.15 at 2:15 pm

If I were a Canadian citizen which party would I vote for…?

interesting question

Well, the present party in power has served the populace at less than optimum level from this vantage point. (obscured by mounds of cow pies and pine trees).

I would vote NDP.

Because they’re better? Heck NO -because they’re spend crazy dreamy eyed lunatics who have no clue as to the “value” of the citizens’ tax dollars. For that matter, no other political party does either to be fully fair.

However, once in power, they may well do the folly of “Tax the RICH” and we all know, the definition of that is your neighbor who earns $50 a week more than you do.
So, raising “everyone’s” taxes who earns 15% above minimum wage with escalating rates for the “really rich”
that’s the guy who earns $100 a week more than you etc etc. Then they goes the corporate rate, the multinational says they’re merging with the US firm or irish firm or just leaves Canada -with NO new taxes (guess the joke is on the NDP).

All this causes demand for goods and services to soften, which means less demand, which mean lay offs which means more social spending which means more taxes needed to maintain promised services which means higher deficits -or higher taxes…. (How do you like this so far?)

This may, or may not cause over priced RE to weaken and start a small melt. In the meantime is commodity demand and prices remain low more marginal entities lay off, or close up, or go BK. Again even higher taxes, or cuts in services… (which the NDP seems loath to do)…

The spiral down continues. Other political parties watch this folly unfolding, and by the next election cycle they might just have a fairly well developed idea for the populace. Or, maybe not if they watch the US.

Enjoy the roller coaster ride!

#307 johnk on 09.14.15 at 2:18 pm

Lots of talk for many years about the “physician drain” to the US and the wonderful opportunities there. Are there any numbers on how many doctors and nurses returned to Canada within two or three years? I knew several who went south and came home within two years because they did not like working in a health care-for-profit system.

#308 Scott on 09.14.15 at 2:24 pm

#300 pwn3d on 09.14.15 at 1:36 pm

“Btw the 150k tax rate in Ontario is not indexed, meaning they are raising taxes on the oh so wealthy every year. And thus shows you the inequality of not having income splitting – a household with two people making 100k pay far far less than one with a single person making 200k and a stay at home.”

Why should you get a tax break if one spouse CHOOSES to stay at home? All else being equal, there’s no reason why the stay at home spouse couldn’t/shouldn’t work…as is the case with the 100k/year household you describe.

#309 Bill on 09.14.15 at 2:39 pm

Good one here Garth.
Tricky times if your living marginally with a pile of debt.
On the markets…The biggest risk is that markets get panicked. People who think they have a low risk asset suddenly realize they are exposed, and they hit the sell button, which can lead to a herd or mob mentality. If prices go too far south too fast, credit markets can freeze, and when that happens, everything freezes. The gears grind to a halt and the markets crash. There really is no reason to expect a crash. The economy can withstand a little quarter point rate increase. We don’t know what the Fed will announce on Wednesday, but we should not be surprised by a hike…

Retail investors do not cause credit crises. Sheesh. — Garth

#310 The Other Chris on 09.14.15 at 2:45 pm

@308 Scott:

Often it’s not a *choice* for one spouse to stay at home. My wife is currently having difficulty finding employment, and it’s not because she isn’t well educated.

You can flip your question around and phrase it as: why should two spouses working get a tax break?

#311 Transplant on 09.14.15 at 2:47 pm

#277 Calgary Rip Off#198 Transplant:

You are a physician? Family MD?

“when you go to the ER with your heart attack at 2 AM be sure to ask for a good general surgeon, and when he asks tell him he can find your heart somewhere superior to your liver above the diaphragm.”

Um…..no. If a patient goes to the ER and has ST elevation with a troponin rise then likely the algorithm will say to treat with a thrombolytic unless there is an interventionalist nearby. You aren’t going to call in the surgeon for an acute MI, even before intervention techniques came into play, in the 1980’s.

——————————————————————-

Free advice:

1.) Follow the thread back to the original comment.

2.) Find a dictionary and look up “irony”.

3.) Try to stop posting comments out of ignorance.

4.) Lighten up a bit, you’ll have a better day.

With respect to the previously referenced orthopedic surgeons, they’re not unemployed because they cannot find jobs “down South” or are just lazy and angling for unemployment benefits (which they would never qualify for in any event), and the law of supply and demand is irrelevant in this case. They’re unemployed because hospitals are underfunded to the point where they are unable to provide any additional OR time for them. You’re waiting a long time for your elective hip and knee procedures not because your doctors are lazy or have already made enough money, but because they cannot get any OR time.

#312 Axehead on 09.14.15 at 2:50 pm

A consideration for those considering Liberal:

I just came back from a conference where the presenter listed the top 10 worst cases of project management.

The number 1 worse case was the Liberal Gun Registry project. This catastrophy went 36,000 % over budget.

If the liberals cannot manage projects, how are they expected to manage the nation?

#313 pwn3d on 09.14.15 at 2:52 pm

#308 Scott on 09.14.15 at 2:24 pm

Why should you get a tax break if one spouse CHOOSES to stay at home? All else being equal, there’s no reason why the stay at home spouse couldn’t/shouldn’t work…as is the case with the 100k/year household you describe.
——————-
You’re not getting a break, you’re getting equal treatment. People who are married share their expenses and share their income. They are taxed on the same form. When retired we say it’s ok to be fair this way, but not before then? It makes little sense.

I’m not even in this situation but I see the unfairness of it.

#314 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.14.15 at 3:12 pm

In past, I’ve always voted for the candidate who kissed the most babies.
This time it’s tough.
None of the guys shows much inclination to get too close to the populace.
Maybe it’s because of all the terrorists from Syria.

#315 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.14.15 at 3:18 pm

I think the Germans are smart to let in all the Syrian refugees.
At least they get the first pick of the crop.
Eventually, Canada will have to yield to international pressure and accept refugees.
By that time there will be slim pickings.

#316 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.14.15 at 3:21 pm

Some people say that the rich pay their fair share of taxes.
Buffet seems to disagree.
I’m on his side on this one.
I think you don’t get rich by paying too much taxes.

#317 Arch Douche on 09.14.15 at 4:00 pm

“This is perhaps as good a place as any to point out that what distinguishes many reformers from those who cannot accept their proposals is not their greater philanthropy, but their greater impatience. The question is not whether we wish to see everybody as well off as possible. Among men of good will such an aim can be taken for granted. The real question concerns the proper means of achieving it. And in trying to answer this we must never lose sight of a few elementary truisms. We cannot distribute more wealth than is created. We cannot in the long run pay labor as a whole more than it produces.”

― Henry Hazlitt, Economics in One Lesson

#318 HCWTT on 09.14.15 at 4:18 pm

#252 Bottoms_Up on 09.13.15 at 2:24 pm
#238 pete on 09.13.15 at 11:50 am
—————————————-
What’s happening in Syria is a result of the 2011 arab spring uprising by the people, and then the government squashing the protests and killing innocent people. Half the country has now been displaced. Around 11 million people. Canada and the USA had no part in that.

If you want the truth, just google “what’s happening in Syria” and read the bbc news article
____________________________________________
I agree.
Let’s get one fact straight here the President, Bashar al-Assad, regime is brutal and he succeeded Hafez al-Assad, his father, who had led an authoritarian Syria for 30 years until his death. Both ruled with an Iron fist. During the Syrian Civil War, Assad has been personally implicated in war crimes, crimes against humanity by the UN, and is at the top of a list of individuals indicted for the greatest responsibility in war crimes for prosecution by the International Criminal Court. Tribunals in November 2014 announced, that evidence would be brought against Assad. It was reported that 200,000 political prisoners were in jail in Syria for opposing the Assad regime. For crying out loud he has gassed his own people. He is so much in bed with the Russians that he smells of Vodka. He not only is fighting his own people but domestic rebels and now the Islamic State. As far as people blaming Canada for not taking in some of the hundreds of thousands of displaced peoples all I have to say is piss off! We did not create this mess and although we should as good citizens of the world help we should not be blamed. Go down to the any of these embassy’s right next door to Syria and bitch to them about taking Syrians from this civil war. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Egypt. Since mother Russia is close how about Putin taking in some of these poor displaced people. I’ll tell you what people these other countries wouldn’t lift a finger to help these displaced people. You know why? They don’t want them and they don’t give a crap about being good citizens of the world. I have specifically left out Israel and Gaza, West Bank as they already have their own displaced persons crisis. So all of you tree hugging, crying lame assed do gooders that have to jump on the lets blame Canada float for these terrible events, deaths, displacement, torture and other atrocities get off your asses and go demonstrate at any of these other country’s embassies and let me know how that works out for you!.
Me I personally blame the Middle East for not helping out their own neighbors first.

#319 saskatoon on 09.14.15 at 4:20 pm

most of today’s comments are an argument against democracy.

incredible.

#320 not me on 09.14.15 at 4:43 pm

Making $100K/yr and can’t save $20K? lol Do these people go to food bank too?

#321 tkid on 09.14.15 at 4:51 pm

To Pontius Pilot and all the nimrods on this board bleating about the wealthy and the rich … frak off!

I have had it with the ‘why should we/they even try’ whinging going on.

Rely on CPP/OAS/PRIVATE PENSION PLAN and you rely upon someone else to cough up money when you need it most. You rely upon someone else not to raid those funds. You rely upon someone else to ensure those funds are well managed and will be able to pay out to the retirees.

All of those assumptions are nuts. People have relied upon pensions only to find out they don’t qualify or won’t get as much as they thought they would. Pension plans have been raided , with the court’s blessings. Pension plans are reported to be underfunded, and with the increasing number of retirees, those plans won’t have the funds needed to pay everyone what was promised.

TFSAs and RRSPs aren’t luxury saving methods for the rich, they are a necessity for everyone who expects to live long enough to retire!

You don’t make enough money to have some to save – eiher cut back expenses (cable tv and phones and all eating out come to mind) or make more money.

It took me 30 years of doing without to build up my small kitty, and I have been ultra frugal at times to free up money in the budget. The closer I get to retirement age, the gladder I get that I did so.

#322 Stickler on 09.14.15 at 5:00 pm

Your tfsa example assumes the $10,000 limit is never increased, nor are the $5,000, or $5,500 limits.

All bad assumptions, and extrapolating the result over 40 years *cha ching* as a reason to vote for Harper. Funny.

Sounds like you have been taking real estate agent math.

#323 Bill on 09.14.15 at 5:05 pm

RE: Retail investors do not cause credit crises. Sheesh. — Garth:
If there’s enough selling and a buyers strike for a period it certainly can. That’s why the FED pumped in mega cash injections..

Nope. — Garth

#324 Scott on 09.14.15 at 5:34 pm

#310 The Other Chris on 09.14.15 at 2:45 pm

Point taken, and I know that un/underemployment is a serious issue, but in my opinion, income splitting is a poor method of helping families where one spouse is underemployed. Why not use the money to help generate more jobs and/or better jobs in our economy rather than giving every family extra money if one spouse is un/underemployed…some by choice.

#313 pwn3d on 09.14.15 at 2:52 pm

Despite what you suggest, individuals who have jobs and are taxed according to their income level are not given any breaks at all. They are treated just as they would be if they weren’t married. Both have jobs, both pay taxes, both contribute to the economy.

The idea that as soon as someone gets married to their “rich” husband or wife the government gives the family a tax break (via income splitting) is laughable.

#325 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 8:13 pm

#308: “All else being equal, there’s no reason why the stay at home spouse couldn’t/shouldn’t work…”

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She does work…do I really need to elaborate? Regarding family income and expenses, the family saves in tremendous ways. This argument is so tiresome.

#326 Daisy Mae on 09.14.15 at 8:22 pm

#283: “Harper balances budget.”

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By ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul.” Give me a break!

#327 John on 09.15.15 at 7:40 am

“A quarter-point hike will not cause anything. The causes are already baked in the cake. A rate hike may be a trigger with respect to timing, but that’s all. ” (John Hussman)

#328 Att on 09.15.15 at 12:48 pm

Decreasing the TFSA limit will unfortunately appeal to the average person. They have no problem getting a mortgage for 3/4 million dollars on a house, but somehow can’t save $10k a year… it’s a mindset – they think that saving is only for the ultra-rich. All the while paying for their 4G plans on their $800 iPhones on credit…